**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 18 02:59:57 2010 Aug 18 12:43:58 Hello, what would I need to do to use Englightenment and Illume for Ubuntu Karmic Aug 18 12:44:11 It's armel Aug 18 12:44:41 PaulF: Hello again Aug 18 12:45:10 how is this relevant ? Aug 18 12:47:11 Sorry, it's just openmoko is the only place I know that uses e17 with the illume module **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 18 20:55:40 2010 Aug 18 22:48:36 When I run LEDCLOCK on my Freerunner, the time it displays is one hour in the past. The system shows the proper time otherwise (for instance on the toolbar and via the shell date command). Does anyone know how to fix that? Aug 18 22:50:42 timezone I assume? Aug 18 22:50:48 Poke the devel about TZ? Aug 18 22:51:43 SpeedEvil, I've got the timezone set correctly. It shows the right timezone when I type "date". Aug 18 22:52:48 And I've checked that /etc/timezone and /etc/localtime are correct. Aug 18 22:56:11 Ken-Young: what is ledclock? Aug 18 22:57:58 lindi-, LEDCLOCK is a nice application which makes the Freerunner act like an old-style digital clock of the type often found in hotels. Aug 18 22:58:16 I mean it seems likely to be a TZ issue in LEDclock Aug 18 22:58:18 somehow Aug 18 22:58:36 It shows the time in simulated large red 7-segment LEDs. It is easy to read at night, like a hotel room alarm clock. Aug 18 22:59:07 SpeedEvil, I agree. I'm just puzzled by why none of the other time indicators on the phone show the wrong time. Aug 18 22:59:14 Ken-Young: it sounds openmoko specific Aug 18 22:59:23 lindi-, I think it is. Aug 18 22:59:39 (and that usually implies crappy quality..) Aug 18 22:59:47 Ken-Young: but what's the url? Aug 18 23:00:21 lindi-, Try http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/LED_clock Aug 18 23:00:53 Ken-Young: hasn't ffalarms also such LED clock? Aug 18 23:01:03 it does "cd /usr/local/ledclock; ./ledclock.py"? huh? Aug 18 23:01:50 DocScrutinizer, THat's a good point. I haven't tried ffalarms in a while, but I remember it was handy. I'll try that. Aug 18 23:03:42 Ken-Young: it seems to display int(time.time() - time.timezone), Aug 18 23:04:18 lindi-, It's probably handling "daylight savings time" improperly. Aug 18 23:04:49 a clock should not try to handle that itself Aug 18 23:04:58 It's displaying the time one hour in the past, as if the timezone info didn't know about summer rules. Aug 18 23:05:11 lindi-, I wholeheartedly agree. Aug 18 23:05:44 * DocScrutinizer51 howls like a wolf Aug 18 23:14:53 lindi-, Thanks for pointing out how the code was handling the timezone. It was easy to edit the file and fix the problem. Yea python! Aug 18 23:15:32 Although it doesn't fix the underlying bad design choice. Aug 18 23:21:34 it has things like Aug 18 23:21:34 except AttributeError: Aug 18 23:21:34 pass Aug 18 23:21:47 which seem to mask some of the bugs it has Aug 18 23:23:53 >>> print time.asctime() Aug 18 23:23:55 Thu Aug 19 01:22:52 2010 Aug 18 23:24:24 which - btw - is correct wrt both TZ and DST Aug 18 23:24:37 DocScrutinizer: yeah but that's a string Aug 18 23:27:13 >>> print time.localtime( ) Aug 18 23:27:14 time.struct_time(tm_year=2010, tm_mon=8, tm_mday=19, tm_hour=1, tm_min=26, tm_sec=11, tm_wday=3, tm_yday=231, tm_isdst=1) Aug 18 23:28:12 yep Aug 18 23:28:43 except of course that in debian stable it is Aug 18 23:28:44 >>> time.localtime() Aug 18 23:28:44 (2010, 8, 19, 2, 27, 51, 3, 231, 1) Aug 18 23:32:07 this looks pretty much like a config option for printing of non-ascii and esp structured data Aug 18 23:32:38 (damn my last py coding is some 8 years ago it seems) Aug 18 23:33:04 DocScrutinizer: yeah python keeps changing all the time Aug 18 23:33:21 writing a portable python app is a true challenge :) Aug 18 23:35:20 anyway I couldn't see any sane rationale why anybody might want to use jiffies-since-epoch_UTC_int for printing HH:MM with whatever typefont Aug 18 23:35:57 DocScrutinizer: yeah localtime() is the way to go Aug 18 23:36:07 plus maybe handling milliseconds manually Aug 18 23:36:22 microseconds! Aug 18 23:37:45 bah femtoseconds Aug 18 23:39:31 hehe, the displayed time wouldn't be correct anymore by the moment the photons leave the glass og the LCD :-P Aug 18 23:40:39 DocScrutinizer: heh Aug 18 23:40:49 DocScrutinizer: did you hear about my gps experiments btw? Aug 18 23:41:00 not axactly Aug 18 23:41:37 DocScrutinizer: in http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/gps/experiment/4/marker1.jpg you see a white aerial photography marker Aug 18 23:42:03 DocScrutinizer: in http://lindi.iki.fi/lindi/gps/experiment/4/screenshot4.png you see a GPS trace that I got when I moved the gps receiver along the edges of the marker, units are in meters Aug 18 23:43:11 heh nice :-D Aug 18 23:43:56 DocScrutinizer: http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/foss-gps/2010-August/000407.html has some more plots Aug 18 23:45:32 mentioning the finite speed of photons just made me instantly think of RTK GPS which is based on measuring the phase of the gps signal Aug 18 23:45:35 SpeedEvil: ^^^^ check that! Aug 18 23:46:05 ? Aug 18 23:47:30 yewhat GPS hardware is this with? Aug 18 23:47:41 I just have two poor openmokos Aug 18 23:47:53 you're just comparing the raw position outputs? Aug 18 23:48:20 SpeedEvil: the earlier emails document the parameters that I'm giving to rtklib Aug 18 23:48:38 NEt is going 128K right now. Aug 18 23:48:52 ? Aug 18 23:48:53 Are you simply taking the NMEA postion outputs, or are you doing something else Aug 18 23:49:02 Hence looing up stuff is annoying Aug 18 23:49:12 look Aug 18 23:50:02 SpeedEvil: ah Aug 18 23:50:19 SpeedEvil: no nmea, i'm reading rxm-raw and rxm-sfrb ubx messages Aug 18 23:50:26 Oh - right. Aug 18 23:50:32 That's 'boring' then to me. Aug 18 23:50:45 As it's expected, and I can't do it on any hardware I have. Aug 18 23:51:27 well.. Aug 18 23:51:34 Also - I would want to see long-term measurements. Aug 18 23:51:56 SpeedEvil: I had to change one byte in the memory of the gps chip to enable this Aug 18 23:51:57 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_GPS - the drift velocity can be quite small Aug 18 23:52:29 Oh - I haven't uploaded the drift velocity curves oops. Aug 18 23:52:37 SpeedEvil: feel free, my emails contain multiple long measurements in raw format Aug 18 23:52:44 k Aug 18 23:52:53 Can't look at them now. Stupid DSL. Aug 18 23:53:41 n900? Aug 18 23:53:44 change one byte - how? Aug 18 23:53:47 ? Aug 18 23:53:58 ublox is really *open* Aug 18 23:54:01 And yes, I could logon using the n900 as a bridge Aug 18 23:54:07 SpeedEvil: well there's this ubx command to write to RAM Aug 18 23:54:19 That would involve getting out of bed. Aug 18 23:54:38 why are you needing to write to RAM? Aug 18 23:55:12 well otherwise RXM-RAW does not work :) Aug 18 23:55:16 Ah. Aug 18 23:55:29 friggin exciting Aug 18 23:56:02 so those old bricks turn into cm-precision DGPS devices :-D Aug 18 23:56:23 DocScrutinizer: I had to up the baudrate to get data at 20 Hz Aug 18 23:56:30 and hit a kernel bug in the process Aug 18 23:57:00 that's real big news :-))) Aug 18 23:57:20 but rtklib is really not very easy to use. I still need to figure out how to get the realtime mode work Aug 18 23:57:27 i have no idea if openmoko is fast enough to run it locally Aug 18 23:58:08 Neart. Aug 18 23:58:14 Neat. Aug 18 23:58:22 actually Aug 18 23:58:26 incredible Aug 18 23:58:38 Old idea. Aug 18 23:58:42 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AGPS :) Aug 18 23:59:00 SpeedEvil: AGPS does not have much to do with RTK Aug 18 23:59:30 It does - sort of. Aug 18 23:59:48 SpeedEvil: usually agps only includes sending almanac and ephemeris Aug 18 23:59:59 AGPS varies hugely. Aug 19 00:00:00 and possibly a guess of current location Aug 19 00:00:06 SpeedEvil: yes it's an umbrealla term Aug 19 00:00:20 SpeedEvil: afaik rtklib is the first free implementation of RTK, it's very new Aug 19 00:00:23 From simply sampling the RF signal, and storing it, to much more device involved. Aug 19 00:00:41 I was more referring to the comments in the above about a peer-peer ionospheric and other error model. Aug 19 00:00:41 RTK itself is quite old idea though but not in the free world Aug 19 00:01:37 DocScrutinizer: SpeedEvil: if you want to be puzzled by acronyms here's the configuration file for the rtkrcv tool that I'm trying to get to work: http://paste.debian.net/84233 Aug 19 00:01:52 now we need jacekowski patch the cellmo so we can hack the N900 GPS directly :-D Aug 19 00:02:29 DocScrutinizer: good luck :) Aug 19 00:02:32 maybe intel would even hand out datasheets for their stupid chips Aug 19 00:02:41 :-P Aug 19 00:03:08 nah the uBlox dudes are really cool Aug 19 00:03:31 nice Swiss Aug 19 00:03:50 well i'd like to have free gps firmware Aug 19 00:04:08 rtklib is a step to that direction Aug 19 00:04:28 was a pleasure to get allowance from them to publish the schematics, and also to include credit to uBlox for that Aug 19 00:05:06 I actually read that part of the schematics to understand how power to external antenna can be switched on or off Aug 19 00:05:26 aiui speedevil (away) is into that Aug 19 00:05:50 as you can see from my mails to foss-gps, RTK only works for me if I use external antennas :) Aug 19 00:06:01 ooh? Aug 19 00:06:09 why that? Aug 19 00:06:24 I don't know, rtklib is flooding me with crypting error messages :) Aug 19 00:06:33 s/crypting/cryptic/ Aug 19 00:06:33 lindi- meant: I don't know, rtklib is flooding me with cryptic error messages :) Aug 19 00:06:53 Sigh. Aug 19 00:06:59 wb Aug 19 00:07:10 DocScrutinizer: things like "2 valpos : large residual (08:40:50.99 sat=8-26 L1 v=-4.932 sig=0.904) Aug 19 00:07:25 SpeedEvil: aren't you involved into writing a FOSS GPS stack? Aug 19 00:07:37 So in principle every phone on charge with a sky view would contribute to the model Aug 19 00:07:37 Awesome - but I wish in some ways that things had gone differently, and the neo1973 reverse enginering efrfort had not stalled. Aug 19 00:07:37 : But meh. Aug 19 00:07:37 Sorry - I'm perhaps not as responsive to the awesomeness as I should be - been turning compost heaps today. Aug 19 00:07:37 :) Aug 19 00:07:38 no Aug 19 00:07:50 I'm writing a for-gain GPS stack for me. Aug 19 00:08:15 Though with a suitable blob of cash, it could be opensourced. Aug 19 00:08:36 SpeedEvil: is it something that you run on a small chip or on a PC? Aug 19 00:08:41 small chip Aug 19 00:08:46 ok Aug 19 00:08:48 optimised asm tracking loops Aug 19 00:09:02 bit-slicing goodness. Aug 19 00:09:26 SpeedEvil: ok Aug 19 00:09:45 SpeedEvil: have you tested RTK or PPP? Aug 19 00:10:00 Still at the sheets of A4 stage alas. Aug 19 00:10:11 ah Aug 19 00:11:36 but yes, I'd certainly appreciate more reference stations Aug 19 00:11:49 the nearest one seems to be down when I need it :) Aug 19 00:12:27 How fast does the positional assistance become useless? Aug 19 00:12:37 I'd guess a kilometer is fine Aug 19 00:12:59 but >>5 will degrade it Aug 19 00:13:00 SpeedEvil: the papers say that the baseline can be up to 1000 km Aug 19 00:13:11 but I have not verified any of this Aug 19 00:13:17 hmm - iono errors at that disrtance I guess Aug 19 00:14:22 anyways, please test and play with rtklib if you have some time so that bugs get noticed :) Aug 19 00:14:51 hmm, should sleep now Aug 19 00:15:46 I don't have a FR Aug 19 00:15:54 Or any suitable ublox device Aug 19 00:16:05 Or indeed any with a suitable output as far as I'm aware. Aug 19 00:16:16 you sold yours? Aug 19 00:16:28 or was it gta01? Aug 19 00:18:11 I had 01 Aug 19 00:18:13 Well - have Aug 19 00:18:27 It's being recycled into a microwave oven controller. Aug 19 00:19:04 With such goodies as time-lapse video of the inside available over the internet. Aug 19 00:37:21 SpeedEvil: seems you're the perfect candidate to lower the heap in my shelf :-D Aug 19 00:37:45 heap of? Aug 19 00:37:50 gta02 Aug 19 00:37:54 Ah. Aug 19 00:38:56 maybe I could declare it as a keyring :-P Aug 19 00:39:14 so you'd get back your keys **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 19 02:59:57 2010