**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 26 02:59:58 2010 Nov 26 14:43:13 hi, has anybody tried to rebase http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/om-2.6.34 over 2.6.35 ? Nov 26 15:59:25 davide125: only on .36 and .37 Nov 26 16:10:07 larsc, do you have a public repo for that work? Nov 26 16:10:19 nope Nov 26 16:10:53 i can push the .36 tree. but imo it has to many runtime regressions to be usefull Nov 26 16:11:08 uhm, ok then Nov 26 16:11:22 I want to add support to openmoko for openbricks (http://www.openbricks.org) Nov 26 16:11:36 right now I'm using your om-2.6.34 branch Nov 26 16:12:05 but since for all the other platforms we use 2.6.35 i'd have preferred to be move on that Nov 26 17:59:08 The Freerunner can take any SIM card, right? Yesterday I tried my brother's SIM. SHR-u said "SOS only", QtMoko couldn't connect GSM at all. Both asked for the PIN multiple times. Nov 26 17:59:37 My own and another SIM work fine, so I figured his SIM is kind of broken. But it works in another phone, so I'm not sure. Nov 26 18:11:41 hmm. Nov 26 18:11:46 samgee: what modem firmware version? Nov 26 18:12:15 How do I check that? Nov 26 18:12:48 samgee: in QtMoko it's in Applications -> System Info Nov 26 18:12:52 samgee: then Modem tab Nov 26 18:13:24 samgee: mine is GSM: gsm_ac_gp_fd_pu_em_cph_ds_vc_cal35_ri_36_amd8_tso0-Moko11 Nov 26 18:13:27 the important part is Moko11 Nov 26 18:13:59 beyond that samgee it might be that your operator is excluding any GSM hardware that does not do 3G Nov 26 18:14:43 crap, my FR thought it would be a good idea to power off around this time. :/ Nov 26 18:14:47 Rebooting. Nov 26 18:15:08 My brother has the same operator as me, so that shouldn't be a problem. Nov 26 18:15:39 Do operators do that? Nov 26 18:16:02 I have heard reports from certain european providers. AT&T doesn't Nov 26 18:16:27 * samgee is amazed every time about the retardedness of operators Nov 26 18:20:13 Broam, gsm_ac_gp_fd_pu_em_cph_ds_vc_cal35_ri_36_amd8_ts0-Moko9-beta1 Nov 26 18:23:07 samgee: you should get that to moko11. lemme see if I can find instructions Nov 26 18:23:56 samgee: Do you have a FreeRunner or Neo1973? Nov 26 18:24:02 FR Nov 26 18:24:12 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM/Flashing#.C2.B5SD-card_Image_.28GTA02_only.29 Nov 26 18:24:41 thanks Nov 26 18:24:55 read it carefully, and use a usd card you trust. Nov 26 18:25:17 and make sure your battery is fully charged Nov 26 18:25:43 That's one of the non-free parts of the phone, isn't it? Nov 26 18:25:47 the only one, really Nov 26 18:26:06 ok, GPS firmware too Nov 26 18:26:52 ok Nov 26 18:27:26 Wasn't there something about glamo too? Nov 26 18:57:29 yep, glamo isn't completely used due to some NDA issues initially, but also due to uselesness of glamo at large Nov 26 18:57:36 ~glamo Nov 26 18:57:36 methinks glamo is http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Alists.openmoko.org+glamo+raster, or http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/gta03/2009-April/000114.html Nov 26 18:58:47 operators even may excluse particular IMEIs they think are not allowed in their network. In Japan and Korea you mustn't use your own phone, you have to buy one from carrier Nov 26 18:59:05 ls Nov 26 18:59:19 for GSM flashing use a card not >2GB Nov 26 19:01:01 2GB is ok. just not bigger Nov 26 19:10:18 My brother says his SIM card is 6-7 years old. Isn't that old enough to not be affected by pre-moko11 firmware? Nov 26 19:43:25 samgee: dunno...but moko11 fixes other bugs as well Nov 26 19:53:06 I don't know if I suffer from any (other) firmware related bugs. Some people said they hear an echo, not sure why that is. It's good to know that I'm using the most free cell phone out there right now, but I'd like to avoid installing/upgrading non-free software nonetheless. Nov 26 19:53:25 the modem firmware concerns wakeups when phone is in suspend. I was affected w/ moko10 Nov 26 19:53:56 I'd like to see OsmocomBB have a freerunner build, but I'd want it to be stable Nov 26 19:54:18 samgee: with freerunner you're running proprietary code on the following components: Nov 26 19:54:45 samgee: gps, wifi, bluetooth, gsm (dsp core, baseband core). Nov 26 19:55:03 wifi has firmware too? on chip or loaded at runtime? Nov 26 19:55:28 Broam: flash memory integrated in ar6001 module. Nov 26 19:55:42 Interesting. Nov 26 19:55:44 PaulFertser: aha, so technically user-upgradeable. Nov 26 19:55:45 samgee: and glamo has an arm core inside as well, running proprietary stuff. Nov 26 19:56:01 Broam: noone knows how to do that though. Nov 26 19:56:09 Short version: most free out there, but far from absolute Nov 26 19:56:16 PaulFertser: figured as much, otherwise someone would do it Nov 26 19:56:39 Is this documented on the wiki somewhere? Nov 26 19:56:47 Broam: what about using any IC? You do not have access to theirs HDL sources as well. Nov 26 19:57:01 PaulFertser: correct. Nov 26 19:57:04 Broam: how is an IC any different from a dedicated hardware running dedicated firmware? Nov 26 19:57:21 PaulFertser: Well, if you want to get into THAT worm-pile, it depends on who can change it and when Nov 26 19:57:41 Broam: when OpenMoko contacted RMS for consulting, he told them to treat any modules with integrated firmware as hardware. Nov 26 19:57:58 right - IF it is not author-upgradeable Nov 26 19:58:19 Broam: GPS firmware is technically not upgradable afaik, but you can patch it runtime. Bluetooth firmware is totally not upgradable (ROM). Nov 26 19:58:21 if the manuf. has the same rights/abilities a user has Nov 26 19:58:43 PaulFertser: then BT firmware is ok by fsf def'n. Nov 26 19:58:50 gps can be patched run time? hmm. neat. Nov 26 19:59:34 it's confusing but it makes sense. If a manuf. can upgrade firmware, a user should be able to too. Nov 26 19:59:42 given the toolchain / etc. Nov 26 19:59:48 samgee: what i can tell you wrt moko10 -> moko11 upgrade is that the code was changed by the Openmoko folks. I.e. it's not technically free but this result was really a community effort. Nov 26 20:00:29 Broam: i understand the reasoning. But one has to make compromises in this fucking life :/ Nov 26 20:00:59 PaulFertser: where did the "Glamo contains ARM" stuff come from? Nov 26 20:01:00 samgee: (wiki) most probably no, but feel free to make such a page ;) Nov 26 20:01:05 haven't seen anything to suggest that.. Nov 26 20:01:16 Do Freerunners that are sold now (e.g. Pulster) have the new firmware? Nov 26 20:01:18 PaulFertser: agreed. Nov 26 20:01:25 Weiss: hm, let me think... Nov 26 20:01:30 samgee: yes Nov 26 20:01:36 PaulFertser, perhaps I will. Can I use parts of this IRC conversation? Nov 26 20:01:53 PaulFertser: If one treats free software as an ideal we all strive towards, it works much better than one where it's a purity contest Nov 26 20:01:55 Weiss: probably some senseless speculation here on irc :( you should definitely know better. Nov 26 20:02:06 Broam: indeed, ack. Nov 26 20:02:09 samgee: sure Nov 26 20:02:47 PaulFertser: I think the 3365 has a "RISC core" of some kind.. not sure if the 3362 has that though (the docs are vague even on that subject...) Nov 26 20:03:08 Weiss: many thanks for correcting me Nov 26 20:03:17 I'd feel a bit dumb to create a wishy-washy "I heard this on IRC" kind of page, but better than nothing, I guess. Nov 26 20:03:21 Weiss: btw, how's life? Nov 26 20:04:04 PaulFertser: not bad.. crazily busy.. next week I'm off to SFO via PHX.. Nov 26 20:04:05 samgee: mention as many details as you can get Nov 26 20:04:17 samgee: that page *will* get scrutiny Nov 26 20:04:19 Weiss: scientific work? Nov 26 20:04:33 Broam, ok, good to know. :) Nov 26 20:04:54 PaulFertser: yep Nov 26 20:06:36 in about March, they let me sleep for a bit.. Nov 26 20:07:35 Weiss: it seems highly unlikely that a complex "multimedia controller" (with graphics acceleration, sdio controller etc) is totally hardwired, my uneducated guess would be that it does have some cpu core. Nov 26 20:08:13 Weiss: i hope you enjoy the work nevertheless :) Nov 26 20:08:46 yeah :D Nov 26 20:09:06 not 100% sure.. it has some characteristics, such as all shading operations taking one clock cycle no matter what Nov 26 20:09:23 samgee: your concern is important. Have you seen the news story about the rootkit in the Broadcom Ethernet card firmware? Nov 26 20:10:02 No o.0 Nov 26 20:10:19 samgee: and there's been some security testing (sadly all blackbox) of GSM modems now that the community has a FLOSS GSM Tower implementation. Getting you some links Nov 26 20:11:01 samgee: http://esec-lab.sogeti.com/dotclear/index.php?post/2010/11/21/Presentation-at-Hack.lu-:-Reversing-the-Broacom-NetExtreme-s-firmware Nov 26 20:12:27 samgee: http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2010/11/07#20101107-hashdays2010 <- harald talks about some of his testing there. Nov 26 20:14:20 Ah, so the rootkit doesn't come from Broadcom themselves. Nov 26 20:14:29 right Nov 26 20:14:33 that makes it even more entertaining Nov 26 20:15:14 we don't publish the source, but we don't make it difficult for anyone else to run code on our precious proprietary hardware Nov 26 20:15:57 I should follow Harald's doings more closely. GSM (like most other hardware/low level stuff) is too annoying to ignore. Nov 26 20:18:22 or too interesting. Nov 26 20:20:07 samgee: the "all your baseband are belong to us" talk that harald points to was pretty good,and all I read were the slides Nov 26 20:57:03 Back. You wanna go for a quick wee and find yourself locked in a conversation^Wmonologue about lions. Other people in the house are such a nuisance. :p Nov 26 20:58:00 Broam, I don't know if I'll understand much of it, but I'll check out the slides anyway when I have some time. Looks like something I'd like to know more about. Nov 26 23:03:45 samgee: back from dinner myself. Nov 26 23:32:32 salut Nov 26 23:32:40 ya des francais dans le coin ? Nov 26 23:37:48 (Traduit automatiquement) Je ne crois pas beaucoup de gens ici parlent français Nov 26 23:38:47 ok thank's Nov 26 23:38:55 You're welcome **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 27 02:59:58 2010