**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 04 02:59:58 2011
Jan 04 09:17:59 <Sazius> I just got an OpenMoko FreeRunner, what is the most _stable_ distro available for it at the moment?
Jan 04 09:18:26 <gena2x> Sazius: try qtmoko and shr-testing
Jan 04 09:18:55 <Sazius> I'm currently running the Debian based QtMoko v31, it's OK, but not super stable
Jan 04 09:18:55 <tim_abell> i wouldn't bother with shr-testing, jump straight to shr-unstable till someone does a new release of testing
Jan 04 09:19:19 <gena2x> Sazius: i think it's best thing you can get
Jan 04 09:19:23 <tim_abell> well, more precisely i don't bother with shr-t
Jan 04 09:19:35 <gena2x> Sazius: help fixing problems to get something better :)
Jan 04 09:19:39 <Sazius> e.g. while playing with the web browser the phone screen went totally white and only solution was to remove battery :)
Jan 04 09:20:04 <gena2x> Sazius: white? sounds like serious bug
Jan 04 09:20:24 <PaulFertser> gena2x: can you please check if http://osdir.com/ml/general/ doesn't return 403 for you? I wonder if they banned all ru ips :/
Jan 04 09:20:29 <Sazius> I tried shr-testing before that, but I preferred QtMoko because it was faster.
Jan 04 09:20:41 <gena2x> PaulFertser: hi, Paul, 403 here
Jan 04 09:20:47 <PaulFertser> gena2x: ok, thanks :)
Jan 04 09:20:49 <PaulFertser> And hi
Jan 04 09:20:52 <tim_abell> shr-u is a fair bit faster than shr-t
Jan 04 09:21:11 <gena2x> question were 'most stable' not fastest :)
Jan 04 09:21:24 <gena2x> i think without debug info all in reasonable fast
Jan 04 09:21:30 <gena2x> *is
Jan 04 09:22:00 <gena2x> ok, going to sky, gl all :)
Jan 04 09:22:14 <Sazius> I didn't have stability problems with shr-t, but didn't use it for long
Jan 04 09:22:45 <Sazius> maybe I should try shr-unstable as well :)
Jan 04 09:23:21 <Sazius> what distros are people in general using here? are you using freerunner as your main/only phone?
Jan 04 09:25:54 <gena2x> (still here) qtmoko v31 + custom kernel
Jan 04 09:26:04 <Sazius> gena2x: yeah, it's happened I think twice already that the screen goes totally white, like it's "blinking out", power-button not responsive, have to pull battery out
Jan 04 09:26:38 <Sazius> gena2x: ok, cool, any reason why you have custom kernel?
Jan 04 09:26:55 <gena2x> cause i am doing some kernel development
Jan 04 09:26:57 <tim_abell> shr-u is definitely 'better' than shr-t, and #openmoko is quite good for sorting out any current issues
Jan 04 09:27:32 <tim_abell> i have 2x shr-u, one on internal flash, and one on sd, that way i can alternate and have a fallback if one breaks
Jan 04 09:27:49 <tim_abell> i did have shr-t + shr-u but there are too many outstanding issues in shr-t for me
Jan 04 09:28:01 <Sazius> OK, perhaps I should try shr-u as well then.
Jan 04 09:28:09 <gena2x> really i have plain debian on sd and qtmoko partially on nand partially on sd
Jan 04 09:28:41 <gena2x> FR is fun if you want to do development
Jan 04 09:28:48 <gena2x> try fixing some qtmoko bugs :)
Jan 04 09:28:54 <Sazius> BTW, how do you boot alternatly from sd and nand? Just using the AUX+power-button thing?
Jan 04 09:29:05 <gena2x> i am using u-boot
Jan 04 09:29:16 <gena2x> do not use nor u-boot 
Jan 04 09:29:20 <tim_abell> boots from sd by default, tap the aux button after the first red flash to skip sd and boot from internal
Jan 04 09:29:26 <PaulFertser> Sazius: i suggest to never use the NOR u-boot for actually booting and working.
Jan 04 09:29:43 <gena2x> bootloader inits much hardware
Jan 04 09:29:49 <tim_abell> it should vibrate once to tell you it skipped a kernel
Jan 04 09:29:52 <PaulFertser> gena2x: i'm still not convinced qi is a bad thing.
Jan 04 09:30:39 <PaulFertser> gena2x: u-boot is really huge and bloated
Jan 04 09:30:46 <gena2x> PaulFertser: it works, so it can't be really too bad
Jan 04 09:31:51 <PaulFertser> gena2x: in fact qi got new life on i.mx and lpc3xxx-something platforms.
Jan 04 09:32:04 <PaulFertser> gena2x: http://warmcat.com/_wp/2010/11/29/new-nxp-lpc32x0-in-qi-bootloader/
Jan 04 09:32:34 <PaulFertser> gena2x: anyway, go skiing while the sun is still shining :)
Jan 04 09:32:47 <gena2x> PaulFertser: i just have to wait :)
Jan 04 09:33:03 <gena2x> PaulFertser: a bit, so can talk
Jan 04 09:33:28 <PaulFertser> gena2x: then please skim that Andy's post and draw your conclusion :)
Jan 04 09:35:27 <gena2x> PaulFertser: ok, i'll think that to say while crossing Finnish Gulf :)
Jan 04 09:35:37 <PaulFertser> gena2x: see you
Jan 04 15:06:31 <FreeNslaved> http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pro/1011PSIENDVD/PPSILCAE/PR
Jan 04 15:35:06 <PaulFertser> FreeNslaved: again?
Jan 04 16:00:21 <FreeNslaved> PaulFertser....sorry ...i found some things interesting..thought i would share....perhaps i shall find another room...take care...be safe   ........... something big is going on....    100 tons of dead fish wash ashore in Brazil, Hundreds of DEAD Black Birds Found In Louisiana Arkansas, Greeted by 20 Miles of Dead Fish In 2011, Bee Population in Freefall Risk to Human Food Production,  More Dead Birds Found In Kentucky Identical To Birds in 
Jan 04 16:00:21 <FreeNslaved> Arkansas Media Downplays Find.......oh yeah and the bat population is dying off in record numbers.
Jan 04 16:01:41 <tim_abell> FreeNslaved should be listening to noagenda, not trolling oss channels
Jan 04 16:44:33 <gena2x> PaulFertser: ok, i've back, read article, know what to say, but not ready to talk anymore after 15km trip :)
Jan 04 16:45:33 <PaulFertser> gena2x: i'll take a nap then :)
Jan 04 16:45:49 <PaulFertser> gena2x: was a hard trip, eh?
Jan 04 16:46:07 <PaulFertser> (because normally 15km doesn't sound anywhere tough)
Jan 04 16:46:27 <gena2x> PaulFertser: it was nice! just second time this year.
Jan 04 16:46:50 <PaulFertser> gena2x: why the hell do not you live somewhere closer to me ;)
Jan 04 16:47:20 <gena2x> we have local sea here also :)
Jan 04 16:48:29 <gena2x> so 10 mins, then 7 km on ice and you in place where only 10 people per weekend are walking
Jan 04 22:07:30 <tim_abell> http://pastebin.com/rzHj1xd9
Jan 04 22:07:35 <tim_abell> pygps seems to be busted
Jan 04 22:07:49 <tim_abell> fresh install of shr-u
Jan 04 22:08:42 <tim_abell> python-pygps - 2.95-r10.0.6 - Python bindings to gpsd
Jan 04 22:11:36 <tim_abell> seems to happen as soon as i get a fix
Jan 04 22:16:06 <tim_abell> root@om-gta02 ~ # opkg install python-datetime
Jan 04 22:16:07 <tim_abell> Package python-datetime (2.6.5-ml12.2.6) installed in root is up to date.
Jan 04 22:16:09 <tim_abell> hrm
Jan 04 22:16:51 <lindi-> missing import?
Jan 04 22:19:13 <tim_abell> root@om-gta02 ~ # grep -iIr isotime /usr/lib/python2.6/
Jan 04 22:19:14 <tim_abell> ...
Jan 04 22:19:14 <tim_abell> /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gps/misc.py:def isotime(s):
Jan 04 22:19:14 <tim_abell> /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/gps/gps.py:                            self.utc = isotime(self.fix.time)
Jan 04 22:19:14 <tim_abell> root@om-gta02 ~ # 
Jan 04 22:19:45 <tim_abell> hmm, you could be right
Jan 04 22:19:50 <tim_abell> don't see misc in gps.py
Jan 04 22:34:09 <tim_abell> hrm, misc is part of the package
Jan 04 22:34:20 <tim_abell> maybe my import is wrong
Jan 04 22:36:02 <tim_abell> from gps import *
Jan 04 22:36:05 <tim_abell> ahhh
Jan 04 22:36:20 <tim_abell> rather than import gps
Jan 04 22:45:41 <tim_abell> that was an annoying bug, cos it only breaks when you get gps lock, i.e. when outside and not near a pc!
Jan 04 23:01:45 <tim_abell> hrm, still not solved
Jan 05 00:27:40 <tim_abell> damn it why can't developers document their code
Jan 05 00:27:55 <tim_abell> i've spent hours trying to work out how to use this pygps library
Jan 05 00:28:01 <tim_abell> not a single line of comment
Jan 05 00:28:54 <tim_abell> well ok there are some comments, but the api certainly isn't documented >:-(
Jan 05 00:33:39 <tim_abell> nrrrgh
Jan 05 00:36:38 <tim_abell> where is everyone?
Jan 05 00:36:52 <tim_abell> openmoko is definitely starting to feel like a dying project
Jan 05 00:37:45 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: well, nothing's really changing lately.
Jan 05 00:37:55 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: the work is ongoing by its pace
Jan 05 00:38:23 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: have you take a look at git blame or something to find out whom to report problems with that pygps to?
Jan 05 00:40:00 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: the FSO api is documented, the GPS part of it is gypsy-like and afair is documented on the official docs.freesmartphone.org website.
Jan 05 00:44:52 <tim_abell> ah ha, thanks PaulFertser, the dbus approach would be much better
Jan 05 00:49:24 <tim_abell> mdbus to the rescue
Jan 05 00:50:49 <tim_abell> mdbus org.freesmartphone.Gypsy.Position
Jan 05 00:50:49 <tim_abell> Service name not found
Jan 05 00:50:51 <tim_abell> hrmph
Jan 05 00:53:25 <tim_abell> i have fso-gpsd running apparently, does that conflict with gypsy?
Jan 05 00:56:25 <tim_abell> i'm confused
Jan 05 00:56:50 <tim_abell> should i install the gypsy package?
Jan 05 01:00:21 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: no, fso has that already.
Jan 05 01:00:28 <tim_abell> oh
Jan 05 01:00:39 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: fso-gpsd is kind of a proxy that speaks gypsy and translates that to gpsd protocol.
Jan 05 01:00:59 <tim_abell> hrm
Jan 05 01:01:02 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: mdbus2 is much better btw.
Jan 05 01:01:08 <tim_abell> any idea why my dbus call didn't work?
Jan 05 01:01:11 <tim_abell> oh, ok
Jan 05 01:01:42 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: you're using a wrong busname i'm afraid.
Jan 05 01:01:46 <tim_abell> ah
Jan 05 01:01:54 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: i guess that'd be mdbus2 org.freesmartphone.ogpsd
Jan 05 01:02:32 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: you can use mdbus2 (and mdbus) to introspect available busses, then objects, pathes and functions.
Jan 05 01:02:57 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: also mdbus2 can be used in an interactive way with readline, completion and history support!
Jan 05 01:03:39 <tim_abell> very nice
Jan 05 01:05:07 <tim_abell> hmm. no sign of anything gps related
Jan 05 01:05:10 <tim_abell> # mdbus2 
Jan 05 01:05:10 <tim_abell> org.enlightenment.wm.service
Jan 05 01:05:10 <tim_abell> org.freedesktop.DBus
Jan 05 01:05:10 <tim_abell> org.freedesktop.Notifications
Jan 05 01:05:10 <tim_abell> org.gnome.keyring
Jan 05 01:05:19 <tim_abell> that's everything it seems
Jan 05 01:05:48 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: i have to warn though that this gypsy-inspired api didn't get wide acceptance and it looks like a developer who is serious about using gps (especially if it's not only for freerunner) should consider running the upstream gpsd and use its libgps for interfacing.
Jan 05 01:05:51 <tim_abell> this was supposed to be a quick app :-/
Jan 05 01:05:52 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: mdbus2 -s
Jan 05 01:05:55 <PaulFertser> (to use the system bus)
Jan 05 01:06:18 <tim_abell> it's not a serious app i'm playing with
Jan 05 01:06:31 <tim_abell> just something to note down speed limits easily for openstreetmap
Jan 05 01:06:32 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: yes, the fso docs could have been better but it's so obvious for those who already had some experience with it...
Jan 05 01:06:39 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: just use mdbus2 -s
Jan 05 01:06:42 <tim_abell> that's the trouble with docs
Jan 05 01:06:42 <PaulFertser> (for the system bus)
Jan 05 01:06:56 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: also, for gps to work you have to request the resource first.
Jan 05 01:07:08 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: do you know about FSO resource system concept?
Jan 05 01:07:11 <PaulFertser> In fact it's easy.
Jan 05 01:07:18 <tim_abell> haven't heard of it
Jan 05 01:07:28 <tim_abell> ah, much bigger list this time
Jan 05 01:07:32 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FSO_Resources
Jan 05 01:07:36 <tim_abell> including gypsy
Jan 05 01:08:13 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: simple ``fsoraw -r GPS yourcoolapp'' would suffice but since you're writing an app anyway it would be better to request the resource from inside of it.
Jan 05 01:09:29 <tim_abell> yes i was wondering about that
Jan 05 01:10:59 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: time to sleep for me, hope you've got all the needed pointers. You should have asked earlier ;)
Jan 05 01:11:22 <tim_abell> i didn't know i had a question earlier :)
Jan 05 01:11:37 <tim_abell> though I was nearly there, hadn't noticed the other trees
Jan 05 01:11:58 <tim_abell> ta for your help
Jan 05 01:13:50 <PaulFertser> tim_abell: welcome, and good luck hacking :)
Jan 05 01:15:25 <tim_abell> MDBUS2> org.freedesktop.Gypsy /org/freedesktop/Gypsy org.freedesktop.Gypsy.Position.GetPosition 
Jan 05 01:15:25 <tim_abell> (7,1294189894,51.445808700000001,-0.9097307,51.515000000000001)
Jan 05 01:15:26 <tim_abell> yay
Jan 05 01:16:05 <tim_abell> no you know where i am :D
Jan 05 01:16:07 <tim_abell> now
Jan 05 01:23:55 <tim_abell> hurrah, sorted
Jan 05 01:23:58 <tim_abell> laters
Jan 05 01:24:02 <tim_abell> thanks again PaulFertser
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 05 02:59:58 2011