**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 29 02:59:58 2012
Mar 29 18:36:46 <hkhalid> Hello
Mar 29 18:37:32 <hkhalid> Does openmoko have an opensource baseband? I ask because based off a CNET article, it says all phones have a feature to be remotely turned on by FBI.  I was told that this is not the OS like Android but the phone mfg putting a backdoor on the baseband, can someone point me in the right direction?
Mar 29 18:37:44 <hkhalid> http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029-6140191.html is the article about phones being turned on remotely
Mar 29 18:38:36 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: hey
Mar 29 18:38:47 <hkhalid> hi PaulFertser , how are you?
Mar 29 18:39:29 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: google for OsmocomBB
Mar 29 18:40:05 <hkhalid> PaulFertser:  I was just on that channel and asked the same thing, but it seems they are unaware of FBI being able to turn on phones. I tried mentioning that I was told that this feature is due to baseband
Mar 29 18:40:26 <hkhalid> so if they are unaware of it, then I would have to audit which is unrealistic
Mar 29 18:40:33 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: do you have any proof or real information about "fbi"?
Mar 29 18:40:45 <hkhalid> http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029-6140191.html this article was pretty famous
Mar 29 18:42:55 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: that's all moot
Mar 29 18:43:22 <hkhalid> hmmmm someone on osmocom said the  same thing....I dont get why though....
Mar 29 18:43:31 <hkhalid> why are people doubting this...
Mar 29 18:43:38 <hkhalid> is it that difficult and strange?
Mar 29 18:43:47 <hkhalid> arent most basebands closed source 
Mar 29 18:44:07 <hkhalid> if its not the OS, then....its the baseband correct? IF they did put something in....
Mar 29 18:46:08 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: bugs in baseband are different in every version.
Mar 29 18:46:19 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: and are usually fixed once disclosed
Mar 29 18:46:40 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: read http://www.google.com/url?q=https://cryptolux.org/media/hack.lu-aybbabtu.pdf&sa=U&ei=A650T4XkF8OhOu2DpNAK&ved=0CBEQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGnTSRcqg8EJ3ruNaCs1_glwV0rAg
Mar 29 18:46:53 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: it's highly unlikely fbi did something similar.
Mar 29 18:47:26 <hkhalid> PaulFertser: not FBI doing it, I thought it would be something by US law that all firmwares would have this feature, thanks for th elink
Mar 29 18:47:37 <hkhalid> provided by phone mfg
Mar 29 18:47:41 <PaulFertser> They'd need to spend plenty of time targetting very particular baseband version without any guarantees the suspects won't change it.
Mar 29 18:47:59 <hkhalid> but thats the point, nobody ever really changes the baseband...
Mar 29 18:48:17 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: it's unlikely there's such a feature present. Or else it would have high chances of being discovered by the researches.
Mar 29 18:48:42 <hkhalid> I was thinking Google was part of this, same with apple and Nokia and RIM
Mar 29 18:49:22 <hkhalid> when that vmware asshole said stuff about openbsd and a backdoor
Mar 29 18:49:24 <hkhalid> now I question it all
Mar 29 18:49:55 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: neither google nor RIM writes baseband fw i guess.
Mar 29 18:50:13 <hkhalid> google = motorola
Mar 29 18:50:35 <PaulFertser> Does motorola produce basebands at all btw?
Mar 29 18:50:58 <hkhalid> ok to be clear, its not the phone mfg that does it....but the chipset mfg?
Mar 29 18:51:29 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: writes bb fw? Mostly yes, afaict.
Mar 29 18:51:44 <hkhalid> thanks
Mar 29 18:51:51 <hkhalid> so like qualcom?
Mar 29 18:52:34 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: yep
Mar 29 18:56:32 <hkhalid> PaulFertser: you are an expert
Mar 29 18:59:26 <PaulFertser> No
Mar 29 19:04:03 <hkhalid> I could purchase an openmoko, and have it working via simcard here in USA easily correct?
Mar 29 19:05:49 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: if you buy a 850MHz version
Mar 29 19:05:58 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: but the baseband is not free in OM.
Mar 29 19:07:32 <hkhalid> This saddens me. I wanted to resell a phone with a ROM loaded with my apps....I was going to use Android but I dont trust the basebands, now openmoko is great alternative it just seems that the app dev for it hell...just like its hell for Android. I have been really into Mozillas boot2gecko recently...
Mar 29 19:07:57 <hkhalid> PaulFertser:  you familiar with Carrier IQ?
Mar 29 19:15:50 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: i've read about it :) wrt developing for openmoko, it's not like it differs from any other GNU/Linux system.
Mar 29 19:16:26 <LittleIdiot> as far as i understand gta's hardware, even if they were in control of the baseband, they wouldn't be able to control neither the audio mixer, nor anything else
Mar 29 19:16:53 <LittleIdiot> in other words: they'd also need a backdoor in gsmd or similar software
Mar 29 19:17:34 <PaulFertser> LittleIdiot: of course
Mar 29 19:20:23 <hkhalid> im getting the idea that this is pointless for me to pursue...I just wanted to resell phones to a small niche and say "hey guys this phone doesnt come with a rootkit like many of the HTC Android phones"
Mar 29 19:20:35 <hkhalid> and pack some secure apps with it such as encrypted chat
Mar 29 19:22:20 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: i think om would be good enough for it.
Mar 29 19:22:58 <hkhalid> do you know how much the bb cost?
Mar 29 19:26:11 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: what do you mean?
Mar 29 19:27:15 <hkhalid> the baseband isnt free for openmoko, so you have to pay for it?
Mar 29 19:29:21 <PaulFertser> hkhalid: you can update for free to the latest version
Mar 29 19:29:52 <hkhalid> thanks 
Mar 30 01:11:24 <hkhalid> sup PaulFertser
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Mar 30 02:59:58 2012