**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 25 02:59:58 2016 Apr 25 13:09:56 /q Apr 25 18:38:47 hi! I'm trying to install Debian on my openmoko, but the install.sh on the wiki gives 404. I found one rootfs but it is very old. is there another recommended way to install Debian now? Apr 25 18:41:47 also, the install instructions said to run opkg on an existing QTMoko installation, but opkg command apparently doesn't work. also wondering if I should install Qi - IIRC I have uboot installed. Apr 25 18:49:02 forgot to mention I have a GTA02. Apr 25 19:17:43 lide: I'd recommend using debootstrap manually. Apr 25 19:18:03 lide: but beware that new Debian versions require modern enough kernel. Apr 25 19:19:13 lide: as a general advice, I'd recommend to treat gta02 as any other "armel" SBC. Apr 25 19:20:30 lide: you can prepare a uSD card on your host according to the instructions for your bootloader, then debootstrap --foreign Debian on it and the installation will continue when you boot from it. Apr 25 19:21:03 lide: serial console will most probably be handy, if you do not have openmoko debug board, any other reasonable usb uart adapter will work if you solder to the testpoints. Apr 25 19:24:45 PaulFertser: I have the debug board but not sure how to work with it here. thanks for the tips though, I'm looking into debootstrap now. I have only run QtMoko and SHR on my GTA02 before, and don't have much experience building the system like this. Apr 25 19:33:46 lide: then I suggest to stick with QtMoko Apr 25 19:34:50 lide: QtMoko images are all Debian based Apr 25 19:35:21 I thought Debian with FSO would be best for developing. TBH I haven't looked what QtMoko is up to these days, last I tried it seemed somewhat wonky. Apr 25 19:35:38 lide: you can deactivate QtMoko's daemons and use FSO Apr 25 19:35:47 lide: what do you plan to develop? Apr 25 19:36:17 a baby monitor Apr 25 19:36:30 How FSO comes into play? Apr 25 19:37:22 I thought the newer framework would be better to work with and if I considered the code worth sharing Apr 25 19:40:02 lide: I mean, what part of FSO is of direct importance for your task? Apr 25 19:40:18 I don't even need a graphical environment on the phone for my purposes so I Debian felt like a good starting point Apr 25 19:42:19 lide: QtMoko is Debian already Apr 25 19:43:50 I got the impression that FSO is the defacto API for building mobile applications, giving me easy access to the device? Apr 25 19:44:57 if I try QtMoko I probably need a reinstall anyway, hopefully it's not all 404! Apr 25 19:46:34 e.g. http://www.freesmartphone.org/specs/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call/ Apr 25 19:49:40 lide: so that was my question, what part of FSO is of importance. Apr 25 19:49:47 lide: do you need GSM interface? Apr 25 19:50:00 Then probably calling FSO over dbus is a good idea. Apr 25 19:50:11 But you can install FSO on QtMoko too. Apr 25 19:50:20 No need for old ad-hock Debian installation script. Apr 25 19:50:34 also, I'm a bit worried about performance. GTA02 is somewhat meek in my experience. SHR was unuseable because the hardware couldn't handle the GUI environment (whichever it used, don't remember). I'm having massive lag in the old QtMoko versions already, but perhaps not running X would make the device more reliable already :) Apr 25 19:50:42 lide: alas, there's no defacto API for mobile, FSO never became one. Apr 25 19:50:50 PaulFertser: yes, I need GSM. Apr 25 19:50:57 Probably you can call Android to be defacto API :( Apr 25 19:51:21 I'm using gta02 with Debian and FSO2 as my only cellphone. Apr 25 19:51:35 right. but in this context, it felt like the best choice Apr 25 19:51:55 do you find it reliable? Apr 25 19:54:44 I used GTA02+QtMoko as my main phone for a while (years ago), but it pissed me off a bit too much. SHR was a disastrous bug-fest, completely unuseable. I felt what the phone needed was a super-sleek GUI with zero non-functional (incl. eyecandy) features. Apr 25 19:57:38 lide: no, I've fixed plenty of bugs in FSO2 but it's still not fully reliable, partially due to FSO2, partially due to modem firmware. Also, for some obscure reasons I'm using an old battery which makes GSM even more unreliable. Apr 25 19:58:43 I have no choice but to continue using gta02; else I'd have to resort to some stupid feature phone. Apr 25 20:01:48 I went back to using dumbphones actually :) my 12 years old Motorola is still kicking (though definitely seen its best years), and now I've been happily using a German rugged feature phone. Apr 25 20:03:09 the modem firmware on OpenMoko is not open, correct? Apr 25 20:03:26 has anyone reverse-engineered it? Apr 25 20:04:49 I also have a very nice Nokia 6100 but its battery is dead. I considered buying a high-capacity replacement from China (because I like to live dangerously) Apr 25 20:06:20 Neo is my only smartphone and although I don't need smart in my pocket I've finally found a purpose for a small computer with a GSM modem :) Apr 25 20:06:49 lide: there's a legal implementation: https://bb.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/Hardware/Calypso and there's an illegal project: https://www.freecalypso.org/ Apr 25 20:10:50 oh, nice. I remember trying to look up a hacked firmware some time ago but the situation seemed desperate at the time. Apr 25 20:19:21 PaulFertser: what are your thoughts on http://neo900.org/ ? Apr 25 20:20:50 lide: I really wish neo900 succeed. Great idea, great implementation. I can only hope they'll manage, and they have all the chances to do that. Apr 25 20:23:37 it does look/sound great (aside from the fact that I can't afford it) Apr 25 20:28:27 although, if the situation were to change, I might feel tempted to jump in to support the project. to be fair, locked phones sell for similar amount these days. I actually laughed out loud when I saw an ad for some new Samsung with close to 1k€ price tag. Apr 25 20:30:25 I get it, it's not a phone, it's a multi-purpose computer that - amongst other things - replaces a phone. but it still amazes me how quickly this new paradigm perpetuated the non-power-user/non-geek population. Apr 25 20:32:07 I mean, 10 years ago when I used my Zaurus in public, I was given weird looks. only nerds would do that. now I look around, and everyone is thumb-tapping their computers, that were sold to them as phones, all the time :) Apr 25 20:39:22 I guess we can thank Apple for making (and marketing) the computer more human-friendly, Facebook for giving people a reason to be on the Internet, and Google for making everything else so easily available. I think Google's choice of the nomenclature of their mobile OS was very conscious and somewhat humorous. "Android" isn't the OS - it's the new user+OS hybrid entity. Apr 25 20:42:01 (correction: user+device) the hive-mind and augmented reality is here already and it's so mundane that nobody even notices Apr 25 20:43:31 sorry about off-topic, I'll shut up :) thanks again for the help & suggestions. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 26 02:59:58 2016