**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 22 02:59:56 2009
Jul 22 04:01:43 <echosystm> anyone know roughly when marvell will be releasing the boards with SATA?
Jul 22 05:28:56 <armin76> Q_Continuum: you can boot from usb, what you can't do with the stock uboot is booting from an SD card
Jul 22 05:49:20 <Q_Continuum> ah
Jul 22 06:37:40 <ShadowJK> Can you boot from USB if you have a hub?
Jul 22 06:43:21 <dieter_> ShadowJK: Why not?
Jul 22 06:46:37 <ShadowJK> so it works then?
Jul 22 06:46:45 <ShadowJK> how does it work when you've got more than one storage device?
Jul 22 06:47:05 <ShadowJK> do you swap them around randomly until you get the one you want as sda? :-)
Jul 22 06:48:22 <dieter_> ShadowJK: You have only asked if it works with a hub not with many different hd's ;-)
Jul 22 06:48:47 <ShadowJK> so does it work with many storage devices? :-)
Jul 22 06:49:28 <dieter_> I don't know - but I could imagine that u-boot can address different usb disks?
Jul 22 06:51:28 <dieter_> ShadowJK:
Jul 22 06:51:32 <dieter_> Marvell>> help usb
Jul 22 06:51:36 <dieter_> usb usb start - start the usb interface, including scan of the bus. Must be
Jul 22 06:51:40 <dieter_>        executed prior to using the USB, and should be executed only once.
Jul 22 06:51:44 <dieter_> usb tree  - show USB device tree
Jul 22 06:51:48 <dieter_> usb info [dev] - show available USB devices
Jul 22 06:51:52 <dieter_> usb storage  - show details of USB storage devices
Jul 22 06:51:53 <dieter_> usb dev [dev] - show or set current USB storage device
Jul 22 06:51:53 <dieter_> usb part [dev] - print partition table of one or all USB storage devices
Jul 22 06:51:53 <dieter_> usb read addr blk# cnt - read `cnt' blocks starting at block `blk#'
Jul 22 06:51:53 <dieter_>        to memory address `addr'
Jul 22 06:51:53 <dieter_> So it looks like it can?
Jul 22 06:53:45 <ShadowJK> hm
Jul 22 06:57:42 <mwester> Because so many things can cause your USB storage devices to "move around" on the bus structure, the best practice would be to boot your kernel and initrd from flash, then select the USB drive to use as the rootfs by the partition's UUID, thus avoiding any concerns about which device is where.
Jul 22 07:00:40 <ShadowJK> ooh, you can have initrd?
Jul 22 08:29:24 <dieter_> Md: Thanks for the tip regarding debootstrap - I have played with it some time ago.
Jul 22 08:30:04 <dieter_> Md: but I was looking for a "host only" solution to pack a complete rootfs image. Somewhat like openembedded but more lightweight :-)
Jul 22 08:31:16 <Md> I think that openembedded is as much lightweight as you can get
Jul 22 08:38:31 <dieter_> Md: Maybe I have to get more experienced with it to see it's strenght.
Jul 22 09:25:25 <yaayaa> hello all
Jul 22 09:25:45 <rabeeh> yaayaa: hi
Jul 22 09:25:55 <yaayaa> has someone ever managed to install mandriva on a sheevaplug ?
Jul 22 09:26:25 <rabeeh> i'm not familiar with someone that did it
Jul 22 09:26:26 <yaayaa> I've just ordered one :)
Jul 22 09:26:31 <rabeeh> does mandrive have arm port?
Jul 22 09:26:37 <rabeeh> s/mandrive/mandriva
Jul 22 09:26:51 <lennert> rabeeh: all the cool distros have arm ports now :)
Jul 22 09:27:14 <rabeeh> LENNERT: long time on see
Jul 22 09:27:22 <lennert> hehe
Jul 22 09:27:26 <rabeeh> or, long time no talk :)
Jul 22 09:27:46 <lennert> the latter i guess :)
Jul 22 09:27:57 <lennert> what are you up to lately?
Jul 22 09:28:22 <rabeeh> lots of things. working on sheevaplug installer-beta mainly
Jul 22 09:28:33 <lennert> ah
Jul 22 09:28:49 <lennert> i'm mostly still on the wireless
Jul 22 09:28:56 <lennert> that'll hopefully be submitted soon
Jul 22 09:29:18 <yaayaa> arg. I'm afraid not yet for mandriva
Jul 22 09:29:40 <yaayaa> ubuntu will do
Jul 22 09:31:54 <yaayaa> Is there a list of (webcams | usb audio soundcard | bluetooth dongle ) working with sheevaplug somewhere ?
Jul 22 09:46:31 <mail4asim> Hello...
Jul 22 09:46:48 <mail4asim> can someone tell me where I can find the logs for this channel ?
Jul 22 09:56:38 <yaayaa> Last question, is there any version of python form arm/sheevaplug ?
Jul 22 09:56:53 <Md> yaayaa: sure, just install debian
Jul 22 09:57:14 <yaayaa> cool
Jul 22 09:57:17 <yaayaa> thanks
Jul 22 09:57:22 <yaayaa> lunch :)
Jul 22 10:02:19 <punxos> Hi
Jul 22 10:15:10 <mail4asim> punxos: Hello
Jul 22 12:05:26 <zumbi> Md: are you coming to DC9?
Jul 22 12:17:36 <Md> no
Jul 22 12:24:18 <zumbi> Md: :-/ it's a pitty, i was looking fwd to meet you
Jul 22 12:51:34 <lool> Hmm lots of Debian folks here
Jul 22 12:52:18 <lool> Got a sheevaplug today; I must say I absolute love its hackability, especially the JTAG and console over USB
Jul 22 13:37:03 <lool> I'm looking for the memory map of the sheevaplug, but can't find it in the docs on the CD
Jul 22 13:48:36 <gualteri> lool, have a look at: http://www.marvell.com/products/embedded_processors/kirkwood/index.jsp
Jul 22 13:52:59 <rabeeh> you can run 'map' on the u-boot - it will dump everything you need
Jul 22 13:53:18 <rabeeh> for the kernel stuff it would be trickier
Jul 22 13:53:30 <rabeeh> are you looking for something specific?
Jul 22 13:54:02 <lool> gualteri: thanks
Jul 22 13:54:45 <lool> rabeeh: Oh map is great; thanks
Jul 22 13:56:24 <lool> Hmm I thought the plug could load uboot from SD or USB, but it seems it can't; if I mess with an uboot update, it's bricked -- right?
Jul 22 13:56:44 <lool> Or is the JTAG over USB enabled before the CPU loads uboot from flash?
Jul 22 14:03:20 <rabeeh> lool: if you use the sheevaplug installer, it has a u-boot version that supports both SD and USB
Jul 22 14:03:50 <rabeeh> the SD version is a bit buggy; soon we will be releasing u-boot version 3.4.19 that has better support
Jul 22 14:04:12 <rabeeh> for instance, you can run 'usbstart' which will scan the USB bus
Jul 22 14:04:20 <rabeeh> then 'fatls' or 'fatload'
Jul 22 14:04:29 <rabeeh> or 'ext2ls' or 'ext2load'
Jul 22 14:04:47 <rabeeh> for SD card, you can use 'mmcinit' which will init the SD card
Jul 22 14:04:50 <lool> rabeeh: Yes, the experimental Uboot supports reading the kernel and initrd etc. from SD or USB
Jul 22 14:04:56 <lool> But Uboot itself can only be in flash
Jul 22 14:05:02 <rabeeh> right.
Jul 22 14:05:10 <lool> If I write a borken uboot at the beginning of the flash, is there a way to recover?
Jul 22 14:05:21 <rabeeh> the bootrom inside the chip is 8KB in size and supports booting from SPI flash, NAND flash, SATA or PCI-E
Jul 22 14:05:27 <rabeeh> in the plug we boot from NAND only
Jul 22 14:05:38 <lool> Right
Jul 22 14:05:40 <rabeeh> run sheevaplug installer - it will reflash everything
Jul 22 14:06:01 <rabeeh> the sheevaplug installer reflashes uboot, installs kernel and then ubuntu 9.04
Jul 22 14:06:14 <lool> rabeeh: Is the JTAG available before uboot is loaded?  that is, if I write a broken uboot can I still reflash a working one with the jtag?
Jul 22 14:06:17 <suihkulokki> lool: the JTAG and serial are over a separate usb-to-serial chip that does not depend CPU/flash to be on a consistent state
Jul 22 14:06:29 <rabeeh> for d-i style you can replace the initrd inside the installer directory to install debian d-i style
Jul 22 14:06:32 <lool> suihkulokki: Thanks; so worst case I can still reflash via jtag
Jul 22 14:06:49 <suihkulokki> lool: yep
Jul 22 14:06:54 <rabeeh> you can replace the rootfs.tar.gz which is a tarball of ubuntu 9.04 to any distro you want - it's a simple 'tar zc' of the rootfs
Jul 22 14:06:57 <lool> Ok great
Jul 22 14:07:49 <lool> rabeeh: I see the value of the installer, and I think it has some great concepts, but my interest isn't really in painlessly getting Debian or Ubuntu installed and then using the systems; my interest
Jul 22 14:07:58 <lool> My interest is in the pain of getting the device bootstraped :)
Jul 22 14:09:00 <lool> rabeeh: IOW I want to play with the bare metal and then I'll play with higher level stuff; the installer's concept of running openocd and things like that are really cool though
Jul 22 14:10:13 <rabeeh> lool: lots of people brick different stuff. for developers the installer concept with openocd was mainly to get a plug, in any situation that it got into, to a working one
Jul 22 14:10:29 <rabeeh> lool: the installer will fail only if you seriously brick your hardware
Jul 22 14:10:39 <lool> rabeeh: Do I understand correctly that your installer still relies on Uboot to be working?
Jul 22 14:12:03 <lool> Ah no it does not; I thought it was running openocd from the plug but it runs it on the host
Jul 22 14:12:26 <rabeeh> right.
Jul 22 14:12:53 <rabeeh> so openocd on the host will reflash uboot with it's env variables that are suitable enough to get kernel + initrd + rootfs from a USB stick
Jul 22 14:13:23 <lool> rabeeh: Is the uboot in a6 the one with SD/MMC support?
Jul 22 14:13:53 <rabeeh> a6?
Jul 22 14:13:54 <lool> Cause "strings" on it reports the same version as the one from the default uboot
Jul 22 14:14:02 <lool> rabeeh: The alpha 6 version of your installer
Jul 22 14:14:11 <rabeeh> yes
Jul 22 14:14:17 <lool> rabeeh: (NB: your readme file in the alpha 6 installer mentions alpha 5)
Jul 22 14:14:26 <rabeeh> hehe
Jul 22 14:14:53 <rabeeh> i'm so lousy in readmes
Jul 22 14:15:05 <lool> Just drop the version from the readme  ;)
Jul 22 14:15:15 <rabeeh> haha - good workaround
Jul 22 14:15:54 <rabeeh> i passed 12 yearly reviews in Marvell, and every year i get the same comments that i should enhance my documentation skills :)
Jul 22 14:16:43 <lool> rabeeh: I'd be willing to help cleanup the doc and install scripts if we can agree on some way to work on the tree
Jul 22 14:16:55 <lool> e.g. moving to a github tree or a launchpad bzr branch for hosting of some of the files
Jul 22 14:17:08 <lool> (the source files; I obivously can't contribute to the binaries ;)
Jul 22 14:17:51 <rabeeh> lool: please don't start a distro war.
Jul 22 14:17:59 <rabeeh> :)
Jul 22 14:18:04 <lool> I certainly don't want to
Jul 22 14:18:12 <lool> Did I mention any distro?
Jul 22 14:18:30 <rabeeh> launchpad
Jul 22 14:18:31 <lool> Launchpad != Ubuntu FWIW
Jul 22 14:18:59 <lool> Launchpad is just a hosting place for VCSes like SourceForce or github; I really don't care where you put it as long as it's a public VCS
Jul 22 14:19:07 <lool> Alioth if you like
Jul 22 14:19:28 <rabeeh> ok
Jul 22 14:19:29 <lool> It has support for git, bzr, svn, hg, and probably even cvs and others
Jul 22 14:20:10 <rabeeh> i think next week Ofer (rooster on the forums) will upload the latest version; we will host it on some web site
Jul 22 14:20:43 <lool> Ok; please make it either git or bzr if possible, that makes it easy to share patches with you
Jul 22 14:21:35 <rabeeh> github looks nice; i never used it
Jul 22 14:24:23 <rabeeh> lool: look on the installer/ubuntu-sheevaplug.sh
Jul 22 14:24:51 <rabeeh> lool: this debootstraps an ubuntu 9.04, installs all sort of packages and does some fixes
Jul 22 14:25:18 <lool> rabeeh: Yeah this is typically what could be replaced by a rootstock invocation
Jul 22 14:25:29 <lool> Not sure why you use a second stage though
Jul 22 14:26:45 <rabeeh> debian docs
Jul 22 14:27:16 <rabeeh> this is what Riku recommends on his debian armel debootstrap (Riku = suihkulokki on #openplug)
Jul 22 14:27:52 <lool> I think the second stage / foreign bits are only needed when you create the fs / dir on a non-armel platform and then finish bootstraping under the armel platform
Jul 22 14:30:04 <lool> rabeeh: Stupid question but why do you use backsalsh rm "\rm"?
Jul 22 14:33:36 <lool> Hmm the mtdparts arg on the kernel cmdline changes from nand_mtd: to orion_nand:
Jul 22 14:44:15 <rabeeh> lool: the Marvell kernel 2.6.22.18 uses one mtd partition syntax and kernel 2.6.30 uses the other
Jul 22 14:44:57 <lool> Interestingly, your version of openocd uses a different syntax for nand flash addresses than the one packaged in Debian/Ubuntu
Jul 22 14:45:00 <rabeeh> lool: probably 'rm' should be enough. i typically use this to override aliases
Jul 22 14:53:15 <lool> rabeeh: Do you mind if I submit sheevaplug_reflash_uboot_env upstream (at openocd) and in Debian?
Jul 22 14:53:23 <lool> (I think it's your writing, right?)
Jul 22 14:59:05 <rabeeh> yes
Jul 22 14:59:07 <rabeeh> i don't mind
Jul 22 15:00:31 <rabeeh> lool: can rootstock bootstrap an armel target from x86 machine?
Jul 22 15:01:48 <lool> rabeeh: Yes, using qemu
Jul 22 15:03:09 <rabeeh> saeed: welcome
Jul 22 15:06:02 <lennert> saeed: hey hey
Jul 22 15:06:23 <saeed> lennert: hey man
Jul 22 15:20:47 <lool> hola saeed
Jul 22 15:21:30 <saeed> lool: hey lool
Jul 22 15:34:58 <lool> rabeeh: http://developer.berlios.de/bugs/?func=detailbug&bug_id=16028&group_id=4148
Jul 22 16:02:11 <zumbi> http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Optima-OP5E/
Jul 22 16:02:27 <zumbi> nice marvell device, congrats :)
Jul 22 16:05:50 * ShadowJK struggles getting his sheeva's USB to work reliably :/
Jul 22 16:08:41 <ShadowJK> oh maybe this is better
Jul 22 16:08:54 <ShadowJK> I had my USB Hub sitting ontop of sheeva, and all the filesystems vanished after awhile..
Jul 22 16:09:07 <ShadowJK> I guess the hub overheated with the hot sheeva underneath
Jul 22 16:18:52 <tinker-f595_> rabeeh: Here is the Mandriva enhancement request for ARM port https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=45877  Looks like it is stalled.
Jul 22 16:25:11 <cbrake> has anyone seen this issue tinyproxy: Could not create the pool of children
Jul 22 16:25:19 <cbrake> running Ubuntu on the sheevaplug
Jul 22 18:23:37 <ShadowJK> bleh.
Jul 22 18:23:51 <ShadowJK> Again USB vanished :(
Jul 22 18:24:04 <ShadowJK> and the filesystems hosed again D:
Jul 22 19:16:43 <cbrake> is the sheevaplug considered production grade?
Jul 22 19:16:57 <cbrake> or only for eval/development?
Jul 22 19:31:18 <timtimred> lennert or rabeeh may be able to get answers for that cbrake
Jul 22 19:33:41 <ShadowJK> Hm.. on the forums there's a thread where one person says his openplug is more stable without the usb-serial cable plugged in
Jul 22 19:33:47 * ShadowJK should try that and see if he can make USB work
Jul 22 19:39:17 <timtimred> lennert conscious?
Jul 22 19:43:42 <lennert> timtimred: conscious
Jul 22 19:45:51 <timtimred> hey how do...
Jul 22 19:53:14 <ShadowJK> hm ok, the device combo fails tests on PCs too :)
Jul 22 19:55:23 <lennert> cbrake: what do you mean by production grade vs eval?
Jul 22 20:07:07 <puddles> howdy
Jul 22 20:34:00 <cbrake> lennert: FCC/CE certifications, tested over temp range, etc.
Jul 22 20:34:18 <cbrake> lennert: I just talked with globalspec and it sounds like people are using it for production applications
Jul 22 20:35:10 <lennert> cbrake: well, there's FCC/CE logos on the back
Jul 22 20:35:17 <lennert> cbrake: i don't know what kind of tests they do on it
Jul 22 20:39:04 <timtimred> lennert: hmm, be interesting to know if you can poke the hardware people
Jul 22 20:39:42 <cbrake> I'll keep my ears to the ground for people using it -- that is where the rubber hits the road :-)
Jul 22 20:40:13 <timtimred> hehe. mine hasnt caught fire yet.
Jul 22 20:40:19 <puddles> cbrake: what do you plan to do with it?
Jul 22 20:40:26 <timtimred> im not sure mine is the final hardware rev though.
Jul 22 20:40:37 <lennert> timtimred: you probably have a pre-release version
Jul 22 20:40:40 <lennert> timtimred: does SDIO work on yours?
Jul 22 20:40:50 <timtimred> yes, i heard rumors of it being soldered
Jul 22 20:40:55 <lennert> ok
Jul 22 20:40:56 <timtimred> by someone :)
Jul 22 20:40:58 <lennert> hehe
Jul 22 20:41:02 <timtimred> oh SDIO, no idea :)
Jul 22 20:41:14 <cbrake> puddles: light duty data aq and HVAC control
Jul 22 20:41:18 <timtimred> i have a card, havnt tried it.. im using just the flash
Jul 22 20:42:05 <cbrake> puddles: so basically it would be in an enclosure with some other equipment.  Environment may get a little warmer than office environment, so thus the interest in temp range.
Jul 22 20:42:06 <timtimred> and a USB hard disk
Jul 22 20:42:23 <timtimred> cbrake seen the openrd board thingies too?
Jul 22 20:42:34 <cbrake> timtimred: no, I have not
Jul 22 20:42:41 <timtimred> they do just a board, so you could mount that in your enclosure maybe
Jul 22 20:43:09 <puddles> cbrake: have you seen the pictures of disassembled sheevaplug?  you could go that route if you're concerned, but then there goes the UL rating :-)
Jul 22 20:43:16 <timtimred> http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-20-openrd-base.aspx
Jul 22 20:43:25 <timtimred> its not a plug, but another kirkwood option :)
Jul 22 20:43:44 <timtimred> they have an aluminium cased one too
Jul 22 20:45:03 <timtimred> http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-24-openrd-client-openrd-client-board-with-enclosure.aspx
Jul 22 20:45:08 <timtimred> thats another better one too...
Jul 22 20:45:21 <cbrake> timtimred: pretty nice -- lots more I/O
Jul 22 20:45:30 <cbrake> timtimred: I like the 7!! USB ports
Jul 22 20:45:47 <timtimred> yeah heh :)
Jul 22 20:46:27 <timtimred> globalscale may take some time to ship it though
Jul 22 20:46:31 <puddles> cbrake: why not something like arduino?
Jul 22 20:46:45 <lennert> timtimred: i ordered a plug from globalscale as a test of shipping delays
Jul 22 20:46:51 <lennert> timtimred: that was on june 2nd
Jul 22 20:47:00 <timtimred> lennert got it yet?
Jul 22 20:47:09 <lennert> timtimred: nope, and not a word
Jul 22 20:47:42 <timtimred> the one we got koen took a while, but they did respond to my request for an update and gave me a tracking URL when it shipped (which worked)
Jul 22 20:47:59 <lennert> i suspect they prioritise shipments to people that complain
Jul 22 20:48:06 <lennert> which is why i'm not intending on complaining
Jul 22 20:48:12 <lennert> want to see how long this will take
Jul 22 20:48:18 <timtimred> i knew you were a marvell spy!!!
Jul 22 20:48:21 <timtimred> :)
Jul 22 20:48:35 <lennert> i didn't mention "marvell" anywhere in the order, so yea :)
Jul 22 20:49:16 <timtimred> isnt there a european distributer since a few months?
Jul 22 20:49:22 <lennert> dunno
Jul 22 20:49:49 <cbrake> Globalscale told me about 2 weeks is current lead time
Jul 22 20:50:18 * lennert 's still waiting after 7
Jul 22 20:50:35 <cbrake> my first one took about 3 months
Jul 22 20:50:54 <lennert> pretty horrible
Jul 22 20:51:09 <cbrake> puddles: I need something that runs Python on Linux
Jul 22 20:51:20 <cbrake> puddles: has USB I/O, networking ,etc
Jul 22 20:52:25 <timtimred> atom is a reasonable bang for buck too.
Jul 22 20:52:42 <shell_> ion330!
Jul 22 20:53:18 <puddles> if i had to go with atom route i'd pick the johnstown board over the zoltac / ion boards
Jul 22 20:53:44 <shell_> zotac?
Jul 22 20:53:52 <puddles> yeah
Jul 22 20:54:31 <shell_> why?
Jul 22 20:54:38 <shell_> it got the crappy chipset
Jul 22 20:55:21 <puddles> shell: half height board, low heat.  for DAQ application and embedded uses the 945GSE is good enough.
Jul 22 20:55:40 <shell_> do you know of kontron?
Jul 22 20:55:46 <puddles> shell: yes
Jul 22 20:57:27 <shell_> well, I want my fullhd
Jul 22 20:57:37 <shell_> so its either 330 + ion or omap4
Jul 22 21:00:33 <puddles> why not wait for nvidia tegra? :-)
Jul 22 21:01:41 <shell_> you're right .. that could also be an option.
Jul 22 22:16:05 <elfMobile> USB:   scanning bus for devices... 2 USB Device(s) found
Jul 22 22:16:05 <elfMobile>        scanning bus for storage devices... Device NOT ready
Jul 22 22:16:54 <elfMobile> that is what I get when I do "usb start"   I have a 4Gb usb drive plugged in.  I have 3,500M as the first primary partition ext3
Jul 22 22:17:05 <elfMobile> then I have a 500M swap partition
Jul 22 22:17:14 <elfMobile> any idea whats wrong?
Jul 22 22:29:00 <elfMobile> i need some help with USB
Jul 22 22:33:58 <ShadowJK> heh, debugging my own usb problems too
Jul 22 23:10:41 <elfMobile> ShadowJK, you get anywhere?
Jul 22 23:11:09 <elfMobile> If the help command lists ext2load does that mean that my uboot supports it?  someone said that i needed to patch or upgrade uboot
Jul 22 23:26:35 <elfMobile> anyone here able to boot off of a USB drive?
Jul 22 23:57:05 <mwester> yep, booting fedora from a 2 GB USB flash device
Jul 22 23:58:44 <kusznir> mwester: booting as in loading the kernel directly from USB and not from the onboard flash?
Jul 23 00:02:43 <mwester> Why would one do that?   :-)  No, kernel from flash, rootfs on USB.   (Actually, I had it booting even kernel from USB when I first got the plug; now that I've found a stable kernel, I've flashed it).
Jul 23 00:03:37 <mwester> It definitely works, just usually every alternate time (or the first time you "usb start" after every reset).
Jul 23 02:10:48 <ShadowJK> elfmobile: maybe. I'm beginning to suspect my card reader and/or card doesn't work behind a usb hub
Jul 23 02:10:57 <ShadowJK> work reliably that is
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 23 02:59:57 2009