**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 15 02:59:59 2009
Aug 15 05:14:53 <Bluto> How ABOUT that globalscale, huh?
Aug 15 05:16:43 <Bluto> My re-order is contingent on an alternate supplier. How about yours?
Aug 15 05:18:21 <DDevine> Bluto: I think everybody here knows your pain (to some extent).
Aug 15 05:18:53 <DDevine> Some people here have their plugs though.
Aug 15 05:23:19 <Bluto> I've got mine. I on't wait another six weeks for a second one. That's my point. :)
Aug 15 05:25:05 <DDevine> A second one! ONLY six weeks!
Aug 15 05:25:07 <DDevine> wow you are lucky.
Aug 15 05:25:42 <Bluto> Six weeks?! Are youn insane, dude?
Aug 15 05:27:11 <Bluto> I susepct Globalscale is a "fabless" manufacturer, that is, they don't oder 100 units until they have 100 backorders.
Aug 15 05:28:47 <Bluto> And backorders are fulfilled according to what pogoplug and others need, so we're at the bottom of the stack.
Aug 15 05:30:29 <Bluto> If they get twodozebm they'll ship two sozenm even if they're 10,000 behind demand.
Aug 15 05:31:06 <Bluto> I can't be "grateful" for that, sorry.
Aug 15 05:33:20 <tinker-f595> Bluto they have had overwhelming demand. Much higher than expected including large bulk orders for ones without the dev board
Aug 15 05:33:38 <tinker-f595> six weeks is not long
Aug 15 05:34:56 <Bluto> I'll bet you Axentra (or whomever) isn't waiting that long. They'd cancel the contract.
Aug 15 05:35:18 <tinker-f595> They supply all the gerber files etc. so if you are really that desperate you could build your own ;)
Aug 15 05:35:59 <tinker-f595> No they are a business and know how long to wait for an order
Aug 15 05:36:52 <tinker-f595> It takes at least 7 to 14 days for a shipment to arrive from the factory to the warehouse
Aug 15 05:37:11 <Bluto> I'm not desperate: I'm just not willing to play the game by Globalscale's rules (e.g premium shipping on every unit with no estimate or guarantee of delivery).
Aug 15 05:37:17 <Bluto> I wouldn
Aug 15 05:37:25 <tinker-f595> what premium shipping?
Aug 15 05:37:55 <tinker-f595> I did not pay any premium shipping...just standard fedex
Aug 15 05:38:16 <Bluto> Dude, it costs about $5 to ship from Anaheim anywhere in the continental US for $5.
Aug 15 05:38:46 <tinker-f595> sure if you use USPS but fedex is more expensive
Aug 15 05:39:03 <SDuensin> Evening all.
Aug 15 05:39:26 <Bluto> $20 for a unit they may or may not ship the week they promised you it went out the door is outrageous.
Aug 15 05:39:31 <SDuensin> I don't have much time, but wanted to toss in my 2 cents...
Aug 15 05:39:44 <tinker-f595> I did not pay $20
Aug 15 05:40:04 <tinker-f595> Bluto where did you get the $20 figure from?
Aug 15 05:40:48 <SDuensin> tinker-f595 is right.  It DOES take six weeks for the likes of pogoplug and such.
Aug 15 05:41:09 <tinker-f595> SDuensin: thank you
Aug 15 05:41:13 <SDuensin> And tinker-f595 - what is "gerber file"?
Aug 15 05:41:27 <tinker-f595> brb
Aug 15 05:41:53 <SDuensin> GlobalScale is in CA but the hardware comes from China.
Aug 15 05:42:11 <Bluto> I did. I paid for Fedex Express delivery. They had no ground option. But they shipped in the middle of the week, so I didn't receive the item until the middle of the next week despite paying for "express" delivery.
Aug 15 05:42:11 <tinker-f595> SDuensin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerber_File
Aug 15 05:42:52 <tinker-f595> Blute that is strange. I paid for home delivery and it came home delivery
Aug 15 05:43:00 <SDuensin> Ah, thanks tinker-f595
Aug 15 05:43:09 <Bluto> Globalscale is a joke. That's all I'm saying.
Aug 15 05:43:20 <tinker-f595> Bluteo take the shipping up with fedex
Aug 15 05:43:35 <tinker-f595> if fedex is express they should ship express
Aug 15 05:43:54 <tinker-f595> I know the USPS express is real express and cheaper than fedex
Aug 15 05:43:57 <Bluto> Fedex performed within spec. Globalscale fucked it up beyond recognition.
Aug 15 05:44:05 <tinker-f595> nope
Aug 15 05:44:11 <SDuensin> I have to disagree.  Globalscale has been extremely responsive and professional to me.  But yea, it takes time to get hardware.
Aug 15 05:44:13 <tinker-f595> it is fedex that f'ed
Aug 15 05:44:19 <Bluto> ???
Aug 15 05:44:23 <Bluto> Six weeks?
Aug 15 05:44:34 <tinker-f595> fedex is a crappy operation
Aug 15 05:44:49 <SDuensin> Six weeks.  From China.  On a boat.
Aug 15 05:44:57 <tinker-f595> Bluto specialized hardware always takes a long time to ship when there is high demand
Aug 15 05:45:08 <Bluto> Dude, Axentra (or whomever) woujld DROP them for performance like that.
Aug 15 05:45:16 <tinker-f595> nope
Aug 15 05:45:27 <Bluto> BULLSHIT
Aug 15 05:45:33 <SDuensin> It's six weeks.  Believe me.
Aug 15 05:45:39 <tinker-f595> Bhuto you obviously do not work for a living and have never been involved in channel supply
Aug 15 05:46:39 <SDuensin> And why you should believe me:  http://getrosie.com/about
Aug 15 05:46:55 <Bluto> I work for a living and have never had to wait 6 weeks for a product that could ship overnight, no.
Aug 15 05:48:23 <Bluto> If Globalscale can't keep up with the demand that's Globalscale's failure to deliver and not your punishment for ordering, can't you see that?!
Aug 15 05:48:54 <SDuensin> They're making them as fast as they can.
Aug 15 05:48:55 <tinker-f595> Bluto: you are irrational.  This is a dev kit. Not a consumer device
Aug 15 05:49:05 <tinker-f595> The demand has been over whelming
Aug 15 05:49:29 <Bluto> BHullshit. It's EXACTLY the device Pogoplug is shipping.
Aug 15 05:49:38 <tinker-f595> Bluto: you sound like a whiny brat
Aug 15 05:49:52 <tinker-f595> Pogoplug is not exactly the same
Aug 15 05:49:58 <SDuensin> Yep.  And it takes them six weeks to get more.
Aug 15 05:50:21 <SDuensin> (And it's not exactly the same.)
Aug 15 05:50:24 <tinker-f595> SDuensin: where are you based?  Just looked at your site
Aug 15 05:50:33 <Bluto> Thanks. Not exactly, Ijust wanted to know the aberafe temp.
Aug 15 05:50:42 <Bluto> What site is that?
Aug 15 05:50:50 <SDuensin> Illinois.  Very near St. Louis, MO.
Aug 15 05:51:14 <SDuensin> http://getrosie.com
Aug 15 05:51:26 <DDevine> Bluto: I agree with you to a certain extent and I certainly understand your frustration.
Aug 15 05:51:43 <Bluto> I live near Chicago. I operate a site near Green Bay. Are you talking about that?
Aug 15 05:51:47 <tinker-f595> SDuensin: http://gerbv.gpleda.org/index.html
Aug 15 05:52:11 <SDuensin> cool
Aug 15 05:52:15 <DDevine> Bluto: The pogo plug is not the dev kit though. It is actually different.
Aug 15 05:52:32 <tinker-f595> I live in Silicon Valley area hence I know things take time to ship when there is large demand
Aug 15 05:52:39 <Bluto> OK, what am I supposed to do with a Gerber client?
Aug 15 05:53:15 <SDuensin> Yea, Pogo has some of the dev kit's brains removed.
Aug 15 05:53:21 <tinker-f595> use gerber files to either view or run a pick and place machine or board etcher etc
Aug 15 05:53:35 <Bluto> DDevine: It's the same fucking hardware minus a "do not remove" label or two.
Aug 15 05:53:48 <tinker-f595> Bluto: incorrect
Aug 15 05:53:52 <SDuensin> Bluto: no, it's not.
Aug 15 05:53:54 <tinker-f595> it is different hardware
Aug 15 05:54:01 <Bluto> Correct.
Aug 15 05:54:08 <Bluto> Prove it.
Aug 15 05:54:22 <DDevine> Bluto: I would suggest looking much closer.
Aug 15 05:54:22 <SDuensin> It has no JTAG, less RAM, less Flash, etc.
Aug 15 05:54:25 <tinker-f595> SDuensin: hmmm is Bluto a turing test?
Aug 15 05:54:33 <SDuensin> tinker-f595: hehehe
Aug 15 05:54:47 <SDuensin> tinker-f595: if so, we're failing!
Aug 15 05:54:48 <tinker-f595> SDuensin: he answers like a bot
Aug 15 05:55:01 <Bluto> LOL. No, it's a username. But if it passed, it's not a bad one.
Aug 15 05:55:09 <tinker-f595> haHA
Aug 15 05:55:28 * SDuensin needs to chat in here more.  Been lurking too long.
Aug 15 05:55:31 <tinker-f595> beware of bots bearing gifts
Aug 15 05:56:37 <SDuensin> Really need to chat when I'm not holding an infant.  Makes this kinda hard!
Aug 15 05:57:00 <tinker-f595> I am amazed with how much documentation comes with the shevaplug
Aug 15 05:57:09 <Bluto> That's partially my point: I'm not bearing any gifts. I'm a developer like I suspect most of you guys are. I'm just not a fanboi who aill accept any abuse as a conseqence of revering my p;referred hardware.
Aug 15 05:57:42 <tinker-f595> Most developers I know are far more patient
Aug 15 05:57:51 <SDuensin> It's not bad.  Doing Rosie's homebrew docs is an uphill battle.  :-)
Aug 15 05:58:09 <tinker-f595> Why Rosie?
Aug 15 05:58:14 <tinker-f595> why that name?
Aug 15 05:58:19 <Bluto> LOL. Then they're fools, and if they develop for the Mac doubly so. :)
Aug 15 05:58:29 * SDuensin guesses Bluto hasn't done any batch programming.
Aug 15 05:58:36 <Bluto> Bluto, you mean?
Aug 15 05:58:58 * Bluto imagines SDuensin isn't very bright
Aug 15 05:59:05 <DDevine> LOOL!
Aug 15 05:59:12 <SDuensin> tinker-f595: No real reason.  I asked for suggestions and actually got that a few times!
Aug 15 05:59:19 <tinker-f595> hmmm
Aug 15 05:59:31 <SDuensin> Bluto: Yea, I need better pics.
Aug 15 06:00:01 <SDuensin> I don't have a good setup to take them.
Aug 15 06:00:30 <SDuensin> Working on getting a real photographer to do them.
Aug 15 06:01:01 <tinker-f595> as opposed to an imaginary photographer?
Aug 15 06:01:15 <SDuensin> Well, that'd be me.  :-)
Aug 15 06:01:46 <tinker-f595> ha
Aug 15 06:02:17 <tinker-f595> DDevine: are we keeping you amused?
Aug 15 06:02:18 <SDuensin> I'm the designer, developer, artist, photographer, webmaster, janitor...
Aug 15 06:02:49 <SDuensin> (I do have a QA guy though!)
Aug 15 06:03:36 <Bluto> "Bluto" (actually Blüto) is a trademark -- the name I do my development under.
Aug 15 06:04:04 <SDuensin> So you're not just Popeye's nemesis?
Aug 15 06:04:55 <Bluto> Well, when I'm not busy doing more important things, I am. Iguess.
Aug 15 06:05:18 <tinker-f595> Bluto: mIRC v6.35 Khaled Mardam-Bey , c-24-14-163-8.hsd1.il.comcast.net
Aug 15 06:05:55 <Bluto> I just like the name "bluto" because it's synonymopus with a big, hairy man.
Aug 15 06:06:07 <tinker-f595> oh gees
Aug 15 06:06:19 <SDuensin> hehe
Aug 15 06:06:52 <tinker-f595> so 1 am or so for you guys?
Aug 15 06:07:16 <SDuensin> Yep.
Aug 15 06:07:31 <SDuensin> Just managed to get the boy to sleep.  (He's all of three months old.)
Aug 15 06:08:06 * Bluto thinks SDuensin is a good man
Aug 15 06:08:21 <SDuensin> I try.  :-)
Aug 15 06:08:29 <SDuensin> Kids rock.  Now I gotta get the four year old in bed!
Aug 15 06:08:32 <SDuensin> Dang night owls!
Aug 15 06:08:39 <tinker-f595> well a few more sleepless months for you
Aug 15 06:08:54 <tinker-f595> what is four year old doing up ?
Aug 15 06:09:00 * Bluto suggests paregoric, or Nyquil P.M. in a pinch
Aug 15 06:09:19 <tinker-f595> not good for a 4 year old
Aug 15 06:09:27 <tinker-f595> potential liver damage
Aug 15 06:09:30 <SDuensin> She's a combination of my wife and I.  Got my night habits and my wife's early morning rising.  Kid needs almost no sleep.
Aug 15 06:09:45 <tinker-f595> hmmm clockwork child
Aug 15 06:09:48 <Bluto> LOL. That's what YOU think. Paregoric is for the parents. ;)
Aug 15 06:10:01 <SDuensin> Good thing is, like today, if she's tired she'll lay down and take a nap.
Aug 15 06:10:04 <SDuensin> Bluto: hehehe
Aug 15 06:10:16 * SDuensin prefers his Long Island Ice Tea.
Aug 15 06:10:39 <tinker-f595> fortune has a good long island ice tea recipe
Aug 15 06:10:59 <tinker-f595> trouble is it takes a few thousand tries of fortune to get it to appear
Aug 15 06:11:12 <SDuensin> hehe
Aug 15 06:11:22 <SDuensin> tinker-f595: Use the Source Luke!
Aug 15 06:11:29 <tinker-f595> I should just print it out
Aug 15 06:11:47 <tinker-f595> SDuensin: but that is no fun
Aug 15 06:12:05 <Bluto> I love Long Island Iced Tea, but truth is I can get just a s fucked up on a box 'o wine and I don't have to mix anything.
Aug 15 06:12:24 <SDuensin> Whoa.  Bluto may be my alter-ego over there.
Aug 15 06:12:25 <tinker-f595> SDuensin: ever here of a book called the Dice Man by Luke Reinhart?
Aug 15 06:12:33 * SDuensin has a $7 box of wine in the fridge.  :-)
Aug 15 06:12:38 <tinker-f595> box of wine?????
Aug 15 06:12:41 <SDuensin> tinker-f595: Nope.
Aug 15 06:13:04 <tinker-f595> oh man you guys getting the burnt surplus wine in a box
Aug 15 06:13:18 <SDuensin> tinker-f595: Yea!  "Franzia Chillable Red"  It's cheap, yummy, and makes you happy fast.
Aug 15 06:13:33 * SDuensin is under no illusions that it's a quality wine.
Aug 15 06:13:36 <tinker-f595> Dice Man is about an obesseive that can only do things by using dice
Aug 15 06:13:59 <SDuensin> Sounds like me, but I'd be "Compiler Man".
Aug 15 06:14:04 <tinker-f595> well I am used to good inexpensive wine
Aug 15 06:14:11 <Bluto> My sister works for the company that manufactures bags and seals for them: she occasionally brings dozens of boxes home for "testing". They've never failed me.
Aug 15 06:14:18 <tinker-f595> and excellent expensive wine
Aug 15 06:14:26 <tinker-f595> so much wine in this area
Aug 15 06:14:28 <DDevine> I always compile my own wine from the git repo.
Aug 15 06:14:33 <SDuensin> Awesome, Bluto - can't beat that price.
Aug 15 06:14:34 <tinker-f595> haha
Aug 15 06:14:36 <SDuensin> DDevine: hehehe
Aug 15 06:15:06 <SDuensin> Been wanting to study WINE.  I have a crazy idea to combine it with QEMU and build an Xbox emulator.
Aug 15 06:15:07 <DDevine> I lived in Stanthorpe (Queensland, Australia) and there are some bloody excellent wines there.
Aug 15 06:15:12 <tinker-f595> don't like none them there git wine
Aug 15 06:16:06 <DDevine> SDuensin: Wine isn't an emulator, it is a compatibility layer. I have NFI how you would go about combining it with QEMU... I think you can run an Xbox emulator for Windows in wine though.
Aug 15 06:16:08 <tinker-f595> I am about 90 minutes fast drive to Napa county and same to Livermore Valley or a bit longer to Santa Cruz
Aug 15 06:16:33 <tinker-f595> though grapes will grow around here
Aug 15 06:16:33 <SDuensin> DDevine: Only one I know of is CxBx.  All it runs is Turok.
Aug 15 06:16:58 <Bluto> Speaking of QEMU, has anybody tried Slackware 12.2 on the Sheeva?
Aug 15 06:17:33 <tinker-f595> why not just fix the xbox and run linux on it?
Aug 15 06:17:54 <SDuensin> tinker-f595: I do, but I want to do it backwards.  Run Xbox games on Linux.  :-)
Aug 15 06:18:08 <tinker-f595> haha
Aug 15 06:19:22 <tinker-f595> talking about games have you seen http://openpandora.org/
Aug 15 06:19:47 <Bluto> I'm thinking about posting a VERY negative review on the plugcomputer forim titled "ARMEDalck 12.2: pretend Slackware for a pretend CPU."
Aug 15 06:19:55 <SDuensin> Oh yea.  Once Rosie quits consuming all my money, I want one.
Aug 15 06:20:10 <SDuensin> Bluto: You?  Negative?
Aug 15 06:21:05 <Bluto> It's may nature. I can't tolerate bullshit. Genetic tendency: ask my friends if you don't believe me.
Aug 15 06:22:21 <tinker-f595> Bluto I think you wallow in bullshit
Aug 15 06:22:45 <SDuensin> Well gang, I'd love to keep chatting, but I need to get to bed.  Hopefully I'll run into you all again later this weekend.
Aug 15 06:23:03 <tinker-f595> GlobalScale warned people that it would take time to ship stuf
Aug 15 06:23:14 * Bluto thinks Tinker-f595 should reserve judgment. At least for a little while.
Aug 15 06:23:17 <tinker-f595> yes I have to go to sleep myslef
Aug 15 06:24:16 <tinker-f595> I have ordered twice form globalscale and got things in a timely fashion
Aug 15 06:24:27 <Bluto> LOL. LIAR!
Aug 15 06:24:42 <SDuensin> Same here.  Well, the second one was timely.  :-)
Aug 15 06:24:43 <Bluto> *four weeks* is NOT timely.
Aug 15 06:25:28 <tinker-f595> now I have order form nuhorizon and they charged a premium for shipping and took a lot longer to ship than they claimed
Aug 15 06:25:42 <tinker-f595> four weeks is timely if you are told up front
Aug 15 06:25:55 * lennert ended up waiting 7 weeks
Aug 15 06:26:04 <tinker-f595> Bluto needs to reduce caffeine consumption
Aug 15 06:26:12 <tinker-f595> slow donw
Aug 15 06:26:13 <lennert> with no notice whatsoever
Aug 15 06:26:14 <tinker-f595> donw
Aug 15 06:26:29 <Bluto> Is that the Phillipinian manufacturer? The one that makes the balck ones?
Aug 15 06:26:43 <tinker-f595> who?
Aug 15 06:27:36 <SDuensin> No.  Mine are coming from China.
Aug 15 06:27:53 <Bluto> I dunno, Ionic EMS maybe? http://www.ionics-ems.com/plugcomputer.html
Aug 15 06:29:03 <SDuensin> Ok, I'm really going to bed now.  :-)  Night all.
Aug 15 06:29:06 <Bluto> They claimed availability in July, so they're already two weeks behind the curve. Just not like Globalscale, who's several months behind at best.
Aug 15 06:29:09 <tinker-f595> night
Aug 15 06:29:22 <Bluto> 'night
Aug 15 06:29:42 <tinker-f595> Bluto so if you don't order form globalscale more for the rest of us ;)
Aug 15 06:30:21 <tinker-f595> Bluto I want to make the Leg distro so we can have an Arm and a leg
Aug 15 06:30:48 <lennert> tinker-f595: LEG/ARM
Aug 15 06:30:59 <tinker-f595> yep
Aug 15 06:31:02 <lennert> or would that be GNU/LEG/ARM
Aug 15 06:31:16 <tinker-f595> leg and an arm
Aug 15 06:31:34 <tinker-f595> controller system for robotics ?
Aug 15 06:32:58 <tinker-f595> lennert you just woke up?
Aug 15 06:33:24 <lennert> tinker-f595: about two hours ago
Aug 15 06:33:30 <lennert> tinker-f595: i'm not actually in the same time zone as my irc client
Aug 15 06:33:40 <lennert> tinker-f595: it's in utc+2 and i'm in utc+3
Aug 15 06:33:45 <tinker-f595> so did your sheevaplug get held up in customs ?
Aug 15 06:34:07 <lennert> nope, not at all
Aug 15 06:34:09 <Bluto> I want to order several more Sheevas. I can picture a "dark lan" conposed of friend/family computers tied together in a hardware-accelerated VNC. I just won't make the investment if I have to wait for Globalscale's sorry asses to deliver the hardware. I'll do my development and buy the first alternative that comes along.
Aug 15 06:34:23 <lennert> once they sent me the shipping confirmation it got here within a day or two
Aug 15 06:34:32 <lennert> but that shipping confirmation took 7 weeks or so from the order date
Aug 15 06:34:39 <tinker-f595> hmmmm
Aug 15 06:34:54 <tinker-f595> wonde rif I can remember my password
Aug 15 06:36:06 <debio264_> well
Aug 15 06:36:07 <debio264_> see
Aug 15 06:36:30 <debio264_> Globalscale's explanation for the long wait was that Marvell wasn't delivering parts fast enough
Aug 15 06:36:43 <debio264_> which would also explain why the new vendor hasn't started shipping anything yet
Aug 15 06:37:04 <debio264_> and then Marvell requested that Globalscale take down the backorder notice
Aug 15 06:37:15 <debio264_> so the whole thing seems to be Marvell's fault
Aug 15 06:37:25 <Bluto> @debio64: then their claim of "superior supply-chain managemt" is a lie.
Aug 15 06:37:34 <debio264_> well
Aug 15 06:37:37 <debio264_> it's a new CPU
Aug 15 06:37:48 <debio264_> there's probably a high testing failure rate
Aug 15 06:37:55 <tinker-f595> Bluto: what do you know about supply chain management
Aug 15 06:37:56 <debio264_> and what the heck is Globalscale supposed to do about it?
Aug 15 06:38:11 <debio264_> Marvell said they would get X parts by Y date
Aug 15 06:38:14 <debio264_> and they didn't
Aug 15 06:38:41 <Bluto> I don't buy that. I think they told US Marvell told them to take it down, but they actually did so because it has a negative effect on orders if you claim 6 - 8 weeks delivery.
Aug 15 06:39:07 <tinker-f595> well at least they are not doing SATA 3 of which Marvell is the only chip supplier and the chips did not work in real boards
Aug 15 06:39:22 <DDevine> Ah yeah heard about that lol
Aug 15 06:39:29 <Bluto> @debio: I know if your production is hostage to any individual supplier, it's not in any way "superior".
Aug 15 06:40:27 <tinker-f595> well as I said if you don't want to order means more in the line for us
Aug 15 06:40:37 <debio264_> Bluto: then what would you suggest Globalscale do about it?
Aug 15 06:40:45 <debio264_> it's Marvell's exclusive CPU
Aug 15 06:40:54 <debio264_> there aren't any other suppliers
Aug 15 06:40:59 <debio264_> there will never be any other suppliers
Aug 15 06:41:32 <Bluto> Your "supply chain management" at any rate, which is Globalscale's assurance that it doesn't matter if they're fabless because they can get the production out. They can't and it doies. It's a lie.
Aug 15 06:41:44 <debio264_> if nothing else
Aug 15 06:41:48 <debio264_> this is a development kit
Aug 15 06:41:55 <debio264_> read: not a consumer product
Aug 15 06:42:04 <debio264_> read: in beta testing
Aug 15 06:42:11 <debio264_> read: not a priority yet
Aug 15 06:42:15 <tinker-f595> debio264_: I have been over that with him earlier
Aug 15 06:42:35 <Bluto> BULLSHIT! Pogoplug sells thousands of copies of this "dev kit" as a real, live product.
Aug 15 06:42:48 <tinker-f595> debio264_: it is very unusual to have such high demand for a dev kit
Aug 15 06:43:01 <DDevine> The Pogoplug is NOT THE SAME AS THE DEV KIT!
Aug 15 06:43:10 <tinker-f595> Bluto: as we said earlier the pogoplug is different
Aug 15 06:43:11 <debio264_> Bluto: where'd you get that figure?
Aug 15 06:43:37 <tinker-f595> debio264_: I think he got it from where he sits
Aug 15 06:43:38 <Bluto> \IN WHAT WAY? That they tape over the SDIO port and bribe Globalscale not to populate the serial interface?
Aug 15 06:43:46 <DDevine> The demand is high because the dev kit is affordable for your stock standard enthusiast to play with - unlike the usual $500+ dev kit.
Aug 15 06:43:55 <debio264_> "Good evening everyone!  Last week we announced that our backorder was coming to a head when a shipment of Pogoplugs reached our distribution center in California."
Aug 15 06:44:07 <tinker-f595> ha
Aug 15 06:44:14 <debio264_> "On June 30th we announced a backorder that delayed fulfilling new orders."
Aug 15 06:44:41 <DDevine> It is a great little board reminiscent of the Beagle Board. Bluto you might have more success with the Beagle Board. Just smack it in a case and it should do everything you want.
Aug 15 06:44:41 <Bluto> @debio64: Sounds like something Professor Farnsworth would say.
Aug 15 06:44:47 <debio264_> "Heads Up to New Customers: Pogoplug is Backordered"
Aug 15 06:44:51 <debio264_> that's all from their news page
Aug 15 06:45:54 <tinker-f595> Bluto would complain about the Beagle Board cause he would have to order all the cables, power supply etc separately
Aug 15 06:46:25 <Bluto> "Good News everyone-- instead of waiting four weeks for your underpowered and crippled Sheeva, now you'll be waiting 8! I wonder if we should raise the price."
Aug 15 06:46:47 <debio264_> and he wouldn't have a gigabit network connection
Aug 15 06:47:11 <DDevine> good enough point.
Aug 15 06:47:23 <tinker-f595> nothing underpowered about the sheevaplug....
Aug 15 06:47:50 <Bluto> @tinker: actually I'd prefer that: I'm willing to wager my "supply chain management" is superior to globalscale's.
Aug 15 06:47:52 <DDevine> I understand. The total cost of the beagle is too high for me, and then taking into consideration the exchange rate and shipping to Australia. It makes me a little sad.
Aug 15 06:47:57 <tinker-f595> unless you mean it consumes electricity efficiently
Aug 15 06:49:12 <tinker-f595> Bluto: I doubt very much that you could rationally choose the correct accessories.  You would spend all your time trying to decide and never choose anything
Aug 15 06:49:47 <tinker-f595> DDevine: have you seen the miniature projector for the BB?
Aug 15 06:49:52 <debio264_> ah, the sad irony...
Aug 15 06:50:00 <Bluto> I've seen Rabeeh talk about how you can short the memory or disable the I/O to achieve production-scale profits. It's not good.
Aug 15 06:50:03 <debio264_> "available exclusively from digikey. "
Aug 15 06:50:05 <DDevine> tinker-f595: Yeah that is so awesome.
Aug 15 06:50:26 <DDevine> A little expensive for me though (but not expensive for somebody who has a decent paying job).
Aug 15 06:51:09 <tinker-f595> DDevine: I suspect that is were nikon got the idea for the projector in their new camea from
Aug 15 06:51:30 <DDevine> yeah I bet.
Aug 15 06:52:16 <tinker-f595> Well I would like to work out how to boost the OpenRD to 2GB ram
Aug 15 06:52:18 <DDevine> Apparently the reason a lot of cameras and phones can do a slideshow on a TV is because that is a popular thing to do in China/Japan.
Aug 15 06:52:30 <DDevine> I heard, I don't know how true that is though.
Aug 15 06:54:18 <debio264_> it looks like the one thing the BeagleBoard definitely has on the SheevaPlug is good floating point processing
Aug 15 06:55:04 <tinker-f595> well BB is designed for display tech in mind
Aug 15 06:55:29 <Bluto> Gimme a URL for the beagleboard: Maybe I'm on the wrong track with the Sheeva.
Aug 15 06:55:29 <tinker-f595> sheevaplug seems more server oriented
Aug 15 06:55:44 <tinker-f595> google it
Aug 15 06:56:10 <Bluto> Fair enough
Aug 15 06:56:13 <tinker-f595> hmmm remember Bluto dogs bite
Aug 15 06:56:13 <DDevine> Bluto: beagleboard.org
Aug 15 06:56:47 <DDevine> It is jsut a board,cpu and memory -it is not in a case wiht power supply like the sheeva.
Aug 15 06:57:09 <DDevine> But you can add in the cables and whatever from their supplier - digikey.
Aug 15 06:57:13 <tinker-f595> yes you need a power supply and cables an storage etc
Aug 15 06:57:18 <DDevine> They seem like a very good company.
Aug 15 06:57:29 <Bluto> $149, x86 compatibility and no case? Am I reading that right?
Aug 15 06:57:34 <tinker-f595> except they do not have metric spacers
Aug 15 06:57:39 <DDevine> Not x86
Aug 15 06:57:52 <DDevine> It is OMAP which is ARMish.
Aug 15 06:58:05 <tinker-f595> OMAP is an ARM soc
Aug 15 06:58:16 <Bluto> $1459 and it's ARM with no case. Pardon me.
Aug 15 06:58:33 <DDevine> $149
Aug 15 06:58:35 <tinker-f595> you just jacked up the price!!!!!
Aug 15 06:58:54 <DDevine> Biiiiig difference.
Aug 15 06:59:06 <tinker-f595> check out alwaysinnovating.com
Aug 15 06:59:15 <Bluto> $149, I expect you guys are bright enough to ignore typos. :)
Aug 15 06:59:21 <DDevine> I want one of those laptops. It would suit me perfectly.
Aug 15 07:00:16 <tinker-f595> well if you offer more than requested more fool you just like people that get in bidding fights for houses
Aug 15 07:00:24 <Bluto> No laptop I can see, just a bare bord.
Aug 15 07:00:51 <DDevine> No, this is the alwaysinnovating.com one.
Aug 15 07:00:51 <tinker-f595> the alwaysinnovating laptop is based on the BB design
Aug 15 07:01:12 <tinker-f595> as is the openpandora.org
Aug 15 07:01:54 <Bluto> "Always Innovating?" Isn' that like "I'm 30 years od and want to have a baby NOW!"?
Aug 15 07:03:47 <Bluto> OK, $399 for a laptop form-factor. I'll wait a bit (until the sun burns out perhaps).
Aug 15 07:04:12 <tinker-f595> ha
Aug 15 07:04:46 <DDevine> The price is far too high for me (even in AUD, let alone USD).
Aug 15 07:05:06 <DDevine> Its a shame becuase i would really love one.
Aug 15 07:05:52 <tinker-f595> DDevine: wonder if the price will fall as production ramps up
Aug 15 07:05:57 <Bluto> The future of the consumer market is sub-$100 Internet-connected devices, IMO. Think like an open-source iPhone or a retail version of the XO laptop.
Aug 15 07:06:09 <tinker-f595> iPhone sucks
Aug 15 07:06:17 <tinker-f595> not a very good phone...
Aug 15 07:07:07 <tinker-f595> but then most americans have not been exposed to the phones available in Europe and Japna
Aug 15 07:07:07 <Bluto> The form factor is easy to duplicate ijn RISC. IUt's probably a RISC device as it is.
Aug 15 07:07:41 <DDevine> tinker-f595: Most Americans are consumer whores.
Aug 15 07:07:56 <tinker-f595> haha
Aug 15 07:08:00 <DDevine> Sorry if I offended anybody, but it is true - even in Australia it is true!
Aug 15 07:08:18 <DDevine> The majority of people these days are complete consumer whores.
Aug 15 07:08:33 <tinker-f595> Bluto: what you babbling on about?
Aug 15 07:08:42 <Bluto> My point is just that Sheeva-scale devices have a global consumer market of several billion. You want to be on that gravy train or not?
Aug 15 07:09:13 <tinker-f595> Bluto: nearly all cell phones are ARM
Aug 15 07:09:31 <tinker-f595> far more arm devices have been sold than x86
Aug 15 07:09:46 <Bluto> There ya go. ARM phones with proper Internet connectivity.
Aug 15 07:10:03 <tinker-f595> Well tons of those in Europe
Aug 15 07:10:49 <tinker-f595> look at the nokia N series for example. they can stream video over data connection
Aug 15 07:11:08 <tinker-f595> there is even one with a hd quality video camera built in
Aug 15 07:11:09 <Bluto> There ya go again. A $99 portable Internet device, a real computer with an ostensible purpose as a connectivity device, would sweep the world/
Aug 15 07:12:08 <tinker-f595> actually server space is ready as well....x86 consume too much electricity and put out too much heat
Aug 15 07:12:19 <Bluto> The SHeeva is EXACTLY that sort of device. We're privileged to get our hands on it now.
Aug 15 07:12:40 <tinker-f595> Bluto you woke up ;)
Aug 15 07:13:37 <Bluto> LOL. I nvr fell asleep, I'm just not anybody'[s fanboi. :)\
Aug 15 07:14:50 <tinker-f595> I am sleepy
Aug 15 07:15:04 <tinker-f595> need to charge the XOs
Aug 15 07:15:27 <DDevine> The new nokia looks good. My problem with the N series i that they did not have 3g built in. you need to be near WiFi. Useless.
Aug 15 07:15:43 <DDevine> I really want to use Maemo.
Aug 15 07:16:37 <tinker-f595> N series does have 3 G  they are umts
Aug 15 07:16:49 <tinker-f595> or maybe australia is backwards
Aug 15 07:17:07 <tinker-f595> when it comes to cell transmission tech
Aug 15 07:17:34 <lennert> the n70/73/80 have 3g for sure
Aug 15 07:17:47 <Bluto> You know, I don't think that's an issue with the SoCs we're seeing. The Plug was designed as a demo device, it has two gigabit ethernet ports and two eSATA portws just crying for a hardware design that requires them.
Aug 15 07:17:49 <DDevine> no, not those - I meant the internet tablets.
Aug 15 07:17:57 <DDevine> the nxx series
Aug 15 07:18:03 <lennert> DDevine: ah, the nXXX
Aug 15 07:18:20 <DDevine> I have a n96 - it is the worst phone I have ever used.
Aug 15 07:18:33 <DDevine> NEVER get a n96.
Aug 15 07:18:38 <tinker-f595> Bluto OpenRD Client
Aug 15 07:18:47 <Bluto> Like the Uber-router, one no self-respecting Linux user would live without
Aug 15 07:19:04 <lennert> DDevine: glad i didn't then :)
Aug 15 07:19:13 <lennert> DDevine: i have a 5800 now, which is pretty decent
Aug 15 07:19:22 <DDevine> It is slow, freezes, crashes and has a horrible user experience = it pops up stuff over what you are working on and you have to wait for it to fade away befoer you can continue.
Aug 15 07:19:29 <Bluto> OpenRD is too expensive and not well-enough supported, IMO. YMMV.
Aug 15 07:19:31 <lennert> DDevine: it does mp3s, gps, and has putty, so it's got everything i want
Aug 15 07:20:08 <lennert> DDevine: oh, and a qwerty keyboard
Aug 15 07:20:08 <DDevine> lennert: Well it does not cut the cheese for me. I brought it for the reasons you said.
Aug 15 07:20:18 <DDevine> ah I thought you meant n96
Aug 15 07:20:19 <lennert> DDevine: talking about the 5800
Aug 15 07:20:28 <DDevine> oh. well fair enough.
Aug 15 07:20:33 <tinker-f595> the n97 looks interesting
Aug 15 07:20:50 <DDevine> tinker-f595: Pfft. Get a android based phone instead.
Aug 15 07:20:51 <lennert> although the on-screen keyboard does take some getting used to
Aug 15 07:20:59 <lennert> but it's much better than t9
Aug 15 07:21:03 <lennert> especially for ssh
Aug 15 07:21:09 <DDevine> or wait for the new Nokia with maemo 5 and 3g connectivity :)
Aug 15 07:21:14 <lennert> ssh on the n73 was too painful :)
Aug 15 07:21:40 <DDevine> Did yours say "yot" when you type "you" ?
Aug 15 07:21:45 <DDevine> that shits me to tears.
Aug 15 07:21:59 <tinker-f595> DDevine oh and have it dial home to google
Aug 15 07:22:29 <Bluto> I want a kick-ass server I can LITERALLY whip out of my shirt pocket and show the guys at a trade show what's what. In my room, or anywhere I suspect WiFi connectivity, which is de rigeur in hotels nowadays.
Aug 15 07:23:03 <tinker-f595> most hotels charge way too much for wifi
Aug 15 07:23:33 <tinker-f595> they charge in a day more than most people pay in a month for an isp
Aug 15 07:23:57 <DDevine> Bluto: Well with one of the nokia nxxx series you can run run a server in your pocket :)
Aug 15 07:24:00 <Bluto> Plug the sumbitch into a wall socket and show them what's on my hard drive at home. Securely and with streaming if useful or necessary.
Aug 15 07:24:05 <DDevine> Maemo is based on debian.
Aug 15 07:24:17 <tinker-f595> hmmmmm
Aug 15 07:24:24 <DDevine> wouldn't even have to plug it into a wall or anything.
Aug 15 07:24:38 <DDevine> But no ethernet socket obviously.
Aug 15 07:24:42 <tinker-f595> so true
Aug 15 07:24:54 <tinker-f595> no but just ether
Aug 15 07:25:10 <DDevine> well yeah there is some quirks.
Aug 15 07:25:26 <Bluto> It would knock people off the fucking wall to see you whip out a wall-wart sized object and connect to a secure private LAN. It would just blow them away.
Aug 15 07:25:55 <DDevine> ah. Yeah. Something like that.
Aug 15 07:25:58 <lennert> Bluto: please don't swear
Aug 15 07:26:18 <Bluto> This technology has never existed before. That'
Aug 15 07:26:23 <Bluto> This technology has never existed before. That'
Aug 15 07:26:25 <tinker-f595> Bluto:  Yawn
Aug 15 07:26:26 <DDevine> that
Aug 15 07:26:52 <DDevine> and I would have to say you are wrong.
Aug 15 07:26:57 <DDevine> Google the "nslu2"
Aug 15 07:26:58 <tinker-f595> Bluto: I can pull out my old celll phone and do that
Aug 15 07:27:01 <Bluto> s why I'm developing fpor the Sheeva, it' completely virgin territory.
Aug 15 07:27:19 <tinker-f595> Bluto has delusions
Aug 15 07:27:28 <tinker-f595> of reinventing the wheel
Aug 15 07:27:35 <DDevine> Bluto: Google nslu2. Not really virgin territory - slighly different but basically the same.
Aug 15 07:28:04 <DDevine> And there is lots of little devices that you can raise hell on. You just haven't heard.
Aug 15 07:28:12 <tinker-f595> gimstix
Aug 15 07:28:17 <tinker-f595> gumstix
Aug 15 07:28:32 <Bluto> No, I have intentions of demonstrating what a real, sub-$100 device is capable of. Pardon me but I thought that was the purpose of the dev kit.
Aug 15 07:28:45 <tinker-f595> http://www.gumstix.com/
Aug 15 07:29:57 <Bluto> I can't WAIT to get mine really running, I have several friends who'd LOVE to share bittorrent bandwidth, for example.
Aug 15 07:31:12 <Bluto> All our plugs (faster the more in our "dark net") downloading simultaneously on behalf of any one of us who needed something.
Aug 15 07:31:31 <DDevine> You can't do that with a slug or something... Oh wait you can.
Aug 15 07:31:38 <tinker-f595> haha
Aug 15 07:31:54 <tinker-f595> stop that....I am trying to fall asleep ;)
Aug 15 07:32:33 <Bluto> Yes! except the Slug is discontinued and underpowered. The Sheeva is vastly more capable and the same price or less. It's the uber-NSLU2.
Aug 15 07:32:35 <tinker-f595> been fun but need to go to sleep
Aug 15 07:32:55 <DDevine> same
Aug 15 07:32:57 <tinker-f595> it is what ever you can imagine
Aug 15 07:34:33 <Bluto> Right. And it's up to us to imagine it. That's why I love the plug so mcuh.
Aug 15 07:35:48 <Bluto> I tried showing it to my sister the other day, I'm not sure she even understood it was a computer let alone a good brain for a NAS device.
Aug 15 07:37:08 <Bluto> She gets the idea that the plug is a computer in and of itself, she just doesn't see the usefulness of such a device.
Aug 15 07:37:56 <Bluto> It's not obvious to her what a NAS actually is.
Aug 15 07:41:12 <Bluto> She loves watching streaming video on Netflix, for example. She'd have multiple orgasms over the idea of watching over-the-air HD and cable TV the same way, she just doesn't "see" that potential in the tiny gray platic bix I've been carying in my shirt pocket the last couple of days.
Aug 15 07:43:27 <DDevine> there is no screen on the plug.
Aug 15 07:43:42 <DDevine> So you have to carry a laptop or something.
Aug 15 07:43:49 <Bluto> But that's why the Linux developer community has been gaga over it, we see that potential (look at what the NSLU2 is capable of!) we just need to get our hands on them, and Glovalscale has been a joke.
Aug 15 07:44:13 <DDevine> The linux community has not been gaga over it.
Aug 15 07:44:20 <Bluto> ?
Aug 15 07:44:31 <DDevine> I think you need to do a bit more research into what you want.
Aug 15 07:44:43 <DDevine> It is not abc123 easy.
Aug 15 07:45:57 <DDevine> Yes, there is great potential - but what EXACTLY do you think you can do with the plug and how EXACTLY would you do this?
Aug 15 07:46:16 <DDevine> And you have a plug already - what are you doing with it besides playing around putting OSes on it?
Aug 15 07:46:35 <DDevine> There is already devices that act as NASes and video streamers.
Aug 15 07:47:03 <Bluto> I don't think the Linux community's demand has been satisfied. We (I believe) get the leftovers from Pogoplug anf Axentra cloud plug production. There's few other hypotheses that can explain the shipping delay.
Aug 15 07:49:00 <DDevine> I understand what you are saying. I cancelled my order with GS Tech because they refused to communicate with me and were taking MONTHS (your few weeks are NOTHING). But you are getting all angsty over a compartively small thing.
Aug 15 07:49:00 <Bluto> Give me time to get a good, stable Linux running. I'm very good at low-bandwidth development, I've just had my hands on a plug for a couple of days.
Aug 15 07:49:05 <DDevine> This is how the real world wors.
Aug 15 07:49:09 <DDevine> works*.
Aug 15 07:49:55 <DDevine> Supply, Demand. Targets, results. Shit happens. Get over it.
Aug 15 07:50:01 <DDevine> Goodnight.
Aug 15 07:50:41 <Bluto> Bullshit. This is how a company with inferior "supply chain management" works. You think IBM would fail to ship a million RS/6000s if it had demand for it?
Aug 15 07:55:10 <Bluto> Globalscale is fabless. They order a thousand plugs when they receive payment for a thousand plugs, and that's the reason for the delay, I believe. If they were properly capitalized (or at least built the things themselves) they could have a million in inventory.
Aug 15 08:00:29 <tinker-f595> Blute yes IBM would beause that is not their target
Aug 15 08:01:09 <tinker-f595> a million in inventory is dumb...that is a lot of capital tied up
Aug 15 08:01:26 <tinker-f595> well good night
Aug 15 08:02:05 <Bluto> Right, but how does that excuse Marvell OR globalscale, for which the Sheeva market is a significant portion of their sales volume?
Aug 15 08:04:03 <Bluto> Look at the globalscale website; the Sheva is their ONLY business. That's why their production and delivery pronlems are such a scandal. They're not Panasonic with 1,000 SKUs in simkultaneous production.
Aug 15 08:04:48 <tinker-f595> Panasonic farms out production of those 1000 SKUs
Aug 15 08:05:52 <tinker-f595> and you could not get a specialized product from panasonic
Aug 15 08:05:59 <Bluto> Globalscale is simply incompetent. That's the only explanation that accounts for the facts.
Aug 15 08:06:05 <tinker-f595> nope
Aug 15 08:06:43 <tinker-f595> it is just that you have an over developed sense of self.  You think the world should rotate around you.  Get over your self.
Aug 15 08:06:43 <Bluto> OK, you have a better one?
Aug 15 08:08:04 <Bluto> @tinker: No, I live in the real world of contracts and promises and deliverables. I manage my production, I expect my suplliers to manage theirs.
Aug 15 08:11:30 <tinker-f595> oh so you would prefer they would do what panasonic or sony does which is a limited production run and then they move to a different product so even though you liked the old product you can not get it any more?
Aug 15 08:11:40 <tinker-f595> and with that I go to sleep
Aug 15 08:11:48 <Bluto> ehlo! to everyone.
Aug 15 08:13:55 <Bluto> @tinker: yeah, if it means getting a product of equal or greater value at the same price. I suspect you've not done much industrial logistics.
Aug 15 08:17:25 <hypervise> Hmm, I ordered from Globalscale on July 9... no plug yet.
Aug 15 08:18:23 <Bluto> I ordered June 27, received 6 weeks later.
Aug 15 08:18:33 <hypervise> ah
Aug 15 10:06:13 <ShadowJK> mine was about 5-6 weeks too
Aug 15 10:49:17 <ron_> that's not a completely unusual lead time for _component_ suppliers, let alone board fabricators
Aug 15 10:49:53 <ron_> all it would take is one component out of stock, even if everything else went perfectly
Aug 15 19:52:55 <Q_Continuum> Is there a way to get Putty to stay open after I unplug power to the Plug, and resume when I plug it back in?
Aug 15 19:53:56 <Q_Continuum> If not, what's another Linux-based terminal app that would?  (I'm using Putty as I've used it before)
Aug 15 19:59:47 <roxfan> options-session-close window on exit
Aug 15 20:00:12 <roxfan> but you'll have to reconnect, no way around it
Aug 15 20:00:55 <Q_Continuum> Dang.
Aug 15 20:01:08 <Q_Continuum> is there a way to tell it to reboot from the Marvell >> line?
Aug 15 20:01:37 <roxfan> not sure what's ">> line" is... if it's linux then "shutdown -r" should work
Aug 15 20:02:07 <Q_Continuum> I think it's the UBoot environment
Aug 15 20:02:33 <Q_Continuum> (I got a Bad Magic Number error, and need to troubleshoot that)
Aug 15 20:02:45 <roxfan> type 'help'?
Aug 15 20:03:05 <Q_Continuum> hmmm, testing 'reset'
Aug 15 20:03:12 <Q_Continuum> That did it
Aug 15 20:03:37 <Q_Continuum> I'd looked through it previously, but missed that entry apparently.
Aug 15 20:04:57 <Q_Continuum> re-running the Alpha-6 installer.
Aug 15 20:05:05 <Q_Continuum> (Since that's what hosed it last time, apparently)
Aug 15 20:45:16 <Q_Continuum> With the Alpha-6 installer, does it fix the DNS issue from the base image?
Aug 15 20:48:02 <Q_Continuum> (I don't have a proper router, so am having to use my laptop as the internet connection)
Aug 15 21:15:46 * SDuensin read his scrollback from last night.  Dang is Bluto a broken record.  (Wouldn't it be funny if Globalscale *was* out to get him?  <G>)
Aug 15 21:26:25 <davidthings> I missed the party last night!  What IS the latest from GlobalScale?
Aug 15 21:28:17 <SDuensin> As far as I know, they're sending out plugs as fast as they can build them.  Apparently the hold up is getting chips from Marvell.
Aug 15 21:28:41 <Q_Continuum> I'd ordered on June 14th, I recieved mine last Monday
Aug 15 21:28:50 <davidthings> Ack!
Aug 15 21:28:59 <Q_Continuum> Running good, wish I had a router with 'net access for it.
Aug 15 21:29:17 <Q_Continuum> All I have is a laptop with wifi and a crossover cable, and ICS is a PITA it appears on Ubuntu. lol
Aug 15 21:29:32 <davidthings> I ordered mine the week before last, and was shocked to not receive it by monday.  Sigh.
Aug 15 21:30:02 <Q_Continuum> Yes, they apparently removed their "4 week shipping delay" note that got added after the beginning of April
Aug 15 21:30:06 <SDuensin> Took me forever to get the first one.  Kinda depends on when you order.
Aug 15 21:30:08 <Q_Continuum> and are attempting to catch up as fast as they can.
Aug 15 21:30:17 <SDuensin> I waited for months.
Aug 15 21:30:29 <Q_Continuum> I wish they ran at full speed (1.5GHz) and had the max amount of RAM for the system (2GB)
Aug 15 21:30:34 <Q_Continuum> Or offered such a model :-D
Aug 15 21:30:38 <davidthings> Doesn't auger well for getting "class sets" or "distributor quantities"!
Aug 15 21:31:14 <Q_Continuum> Man, 2GB of RAM....
Aug 15 21:31:17 <SDuensin> I asked about RAM.  You *can* add more, but it gets insanely expensive due to the chip supplier.
Aug 15 21:32:12 <hypervise> anyone know... is the SD slot "SDHC"?
Aug 15 21:32:14 <Q_Continuum> How much is "insanely expensive"?
Aug 15 21:32:23 <Q_Continuum> Yes, the SD slot can handle SDHC cards just fine.
Aug 15 21:32:34 <hypervise> nice.
Aug 15 21:32:35 <davidthings> Did I dream this, or are they using stacked chip technology?  I.e. RAM, Flash, CPU all in same little blob?
Aug 15 21:33:03 <Q_Continuum> I haven't taken mine apart but AFAIK from internal pics it's one board.
Aug 15 21:33:22 <SDuensin> Q_Continuum: It's about 2.5 dollars for 512M and then jumps to 28 bucks for a gig.  Beyond that, I don't know.
Aug 15 21:33:27 <davidthings> If I'm right it will look like one chip...
Aug 15 21:33:48 <SDuensin> I forget who makes the RAM.  I want to say Samsung.
Aug 15 21:34:27 <Q_Continuum> Considering I can buy desktop and laptop RAM at like $20 for a 2GB stick...
Aug 15 21:34:34 <Q_Continuum> $30 for half that is stupid
Aug 15 21:34:35 <davidthings> OK.  Just looking at internals... all chips separate.
Aug 15 21:34:48 <davidthings> All about volume, Q_Continuum
Aug 15 21:34:53 <Q_Continuum> True.
Aug 15 21:35:06 <SDuensin> Q_Continuum: Apparently the supplier isn't interested in running fabs for more than one chip.
Aug 15 21:35:06 <Q_Continuum> I'd like to see the price though for one with more RAM.
Aug 15 21:35:18 <Q_Continuum> Lame.
Aug 15 21:35:33 <davidthings> Changing the BOM in any hardware project is a huge pain in the ass.
Aug 15 21:35:35 <Q_Continuum> 2GB of RAM you could do a LOT with that.
Aug 15 21:35:45 <SDuensin> I tried.  I really wanted more RAM inside Rosie than 512.  Wasn't worth it.
Aug 15 21:35:48 <Q_Continuum> Or 2GB of RAM in the OpenRD models :-D
Aug 15 21:37:09 <hypervise> Q_Continuum,  have you done stuff that you notice running out of RAM?  just curious.  I want to try some database stuff and have no idea whether RAM is going to become a problem.
Aug 15 21:37:35 <Q_Continuum> No, I just got mine on Monday
Aug 15 21:37:47 <Q_Continuum> and I don't have a 'net connection for the device yet, so I can't really install much.
Aug 15 21:38:08 <Q_Continuum> Attempting to set up internet connection sharing from my laptop (Ubuntu) is apparently more of a pain than I thought :-/
Aug 15 21:38:14 <SDuensin> Early versions of Rosie sucked down all 512M.  I've been optimizing and have managed to get back under it without needing any swap.
Aug 15 21:38:56 <hypervise> would running a bittorrent client use up a lot of RAM?
Aug 15 21:39:03 <Q_Continuum> which BT client?
Aug 15 21:39:10 <SDuensin> Depends on the number of peers/torrents/etc.
Aug 15 21:39:11 <hypervise> I guess transmission?
Aug 15 21:39:12 <Q_Continuum> most of the ones available I was reading weren't that heavy
Aug 15 21:39:23 <Q_Continuum> http://plugcomputer.org/plugforum/index.php?topic=96.0
Aug 15 21:40:00 <Q_Continuum> Transmission, 150 torrents, <2% of CPU and RAM
Aug 15 21:40:04 <Q_Continuum> apparently
Aug 15 21:40:06 <hypervise> ah.
Aug 15 21:40:22 <Q_Continuum> Deluge, same # of torrents, 5-10% CPU, 14% RAM
Aug 15 21:40:25 <Q_Continuum> So not bad at all.
Aug 15 21:40:38 <Q_Continuum> I'd set it up to grab them from a shared folder, and some method of emailing in torrents too.
Aug 15 21:41:00 <Q_Continuum> Then add an external HD.
Aug 15 21:41:20 <tinker-f595> Q_Continuum: did you remember to put the correct mac address for your sheevaplug in the config file when you used the installer to reflash?
Aug 15 21:41:37 <tinker-f595> SDuensin: what is Bluto's problem
Aug 15 21:41:47 <SDuensin> Hey tinker-f595 !
Aug 15 21:41:56 <SDuensin> He's just a know-it-all hater.
Aug 15 21:42:07 <SDuensin> Unlike us who just know it all.  :-)
Aug 15 21:42:52 <tinker-f595> SDuensin: yes but we admit it ;)
Aug 15 21:43:18 <tinker-f595> SDuensin: I was laughing so hard last night
Aug 15 21:44:29 <SDuensin> "It does NOT take six weeks!   They hate me on purpose!  And it cost $20!"
Aug 15 21:44:44 <tinker-f595> SDuensin: hahaha
Aug 15 21:45:21 <tinker-f595> SDuensin: I wonder if he is locked in a basement somewhere waiting to see the light of day
Aug 15 21:45:53 <SDuensin> Interesting fella.  Er, sorry, "big hairy man".
Aug 15 21:46:06 <tinker-f595> LOL
Aug 15 21:46:57 <SDuensin> Wish I could have hung around more last night.  Even after I left a bit past 1am, I still didn't get to bed until 3.
Aug 15 21:47:18 <tinker-f595> He is complaining that there is not enough i/o implemented on the sheevaplug soI suggest an OpenRD and he starts complaining about that
Aug 15 21:47:38 <Q_Continuum> tinker-f595: mac address?  I never configured that...
Aug 15 21:47:52 <tinker-f595> Q_Continuum:  ohhhhhh
Aug 15 21:48:11 <Q_Continuum> It ran, though, I'm fairly certain...
Aug 15 21:48:15 <tinker-f595> there is a config file you are supposed to edit
Aug 15 21:48:21 <SDuensin> He won't be happy until he has a 3+ Ghz 8GB x86 compatible handheld with a touch screen, wireless, 3g, bluetooth, infinite storage, for $99.
Aug 15 21:48:43 <lennert> SDuensin: at 0.5 W
Aug 15 21:48:47 <tinker-f595> so if you start gettign some strangeness is cause there are mutliple devices with the same mac
Aug 15 21:48:52 <SDuensin> :-)
Aug 15 21:49:06 <tinker-f595> lennert: at 99 cents
Aug 15 21:49:16 <Q_Continuum> tinker-f595: I used the alpha-6 installer, the guide didn't say to edit a config file.
Aug 15 21:49:36 <Q_Continuum> So I think they corrected for that.
Aug 15 21:50:10 <tinker-f595> well take a look at the script and sees if it reads the mac address first and stores it and then resuses it
Aug 15 21:50:34 <tinker-f595> need to look and see if it has been updated since I last used it
Aug 15 21:53:24 <Q_Continuum> The MAC in the file doesn't seem to match the one on back of device.
Aug 15 21:55:32 * SDuensin is saddened by how slow ARM emulation is on an x86.
Aug 15 21:57:43 <Q_Continuum> tinker-f595: So basically at this point it's spoofing the default MAC address, I'm gonna guess?  (Since that's what ifconfig shows)
Aug 15 21:58:22 <tinker-f595> check the mac address on the label on the bottom of the plug
Aug 15 21:58:40 <tinker-f595> and put that in the file
Aug 15 21:58:44 <Q_Continuum> Yeah.  That's not the one in the 'uboot-custom.txt' file nor in ifconfig
Aug 15 21:59:33 <Q_Continuum> I should re-run the installer, eh?
Aug 15 22:00:16 <SDuensin> You can change the MAC from the uboot prompt.
Aug 15 22:00:17 <tinker-f595> easiest way
Aug 15 22:00:39 <tinker-f595> or as SDuestin says from uboot prompt
Aug 15 22:07:11 <Q_Continuum> Oh really.
Aug 15 22:07:42 <Q_Continuum> How does I do that?
Aug 15 22:07:45 <tinker-f595> at the uboot prompt type help
Aug 15 22:08:15 <SDuensin> I think it's "ethaddr".
Aug 15 22:08:29 <Q_Continuum> I don't see anything on ethaddr
Aug 15 22:08:35 <tinker-f595> printenv will list all the env variables
Aug 15 22:08:50 <SDuensin> Yea, I think it's a variable.
Aug 15 22:09:27 <Q_Continuum> setenv ethaddr=00:00...
Aug 15 22:09:28 <Q_Continuum> ?
Aug 15 22:09:32 <SDuensin> yea
Aug 15 22:09:40 <SDuensin> Don't forget to save.  :-)
Aug 15 22:09:45 <tinker-f595> haha
Aug 15 22:10:14 <tinker-f595> SDuensin: I am amazed that the mac address is overwritable
Aug 15 22:10:23 <SDuensin> When I was building the bootstrap for Rosie, I did a ton of uboot setting changes, it booted, and I completely forgot to save.  Had to do it again!
Aug 15 22:10:34 <tinker-f595> been there
Aug 15 22:10:36 <SDuensin> tinker-f595: You can change the MAC on most cards.
Aug 15 22:10:50 <tinker-f595> you learn the hard way
Aug 15 22:11:03 <tinker-f595> SDuensin: but not that easy
Aug 15 22:11:04 <SDuensin> Fortunately, I took good notes while I worked.  Whew!
Aug 15 22:11:12 <SDuensin> No, that is really easy to change.  :-D
Aug 15 22:11:23 <Q_Continuum> Hmmm, U-Boot on alpha-6 is 1.1.4?
Aug 15 22:11:27 <Q_Continuum> (May 13th?)
Aug 15 22:12:07 <tinker-f595> old 3 com cards you could spoof in software otherwise you needed a prom burner from what I remember
Aug 15 22:12:26 <Q_Continuum> Except for UBoot :-D
Aug 15 22:13:05 <SDuensin> You want an old 3COM?  I was digging for some other hardware the other day and found a 3COM 4/16Mb TokenRing board.
Aug 15 22:13:22 <Q_Continuum> The 3Com yellow cards were awesome, could find them for $5 and lifetime warranty!
Aug 15 22:13:28 <Q_Continuum> Plus they worked in _EVERYTHING_
Aug 15 22:13:28 <tinker-f595> I have enough junk
Aug 15 22:13:40 <Q_Continuum> On bootup I have one thing fail.
Aug 15 22:13:52 <tinker-f595> ???
Aug 15 22:14:00 <Q_Continuum> * Setting kernel variables (/etc/sysctl.d/10-network-security.conf)...
Aug 15 22:14:13 <Q_Continuum> error: "net.ipv4.tcp_syncookies" is an unknown key
Aug 15 22:14:17 <Q_Continuum> [fail]
Aug 15 22:14:30 <tinker-f595> which distro?
Aug 15 22:14:36 <Q_Continuum> Ubuntu 9.04
Aug 15 22:14:43 <Q_Continuum> Used the Alpha-6 installer
Aug 15 22:14:44 <tinker-f595> hmmmm
Aug 15 22:14:49 <Q_Continuum> http://plugcomputer.org/plugforum/index.php?topic=355.0
Aug 15 22:14:52 <Q_Continuum> Topic for the installer
Aug 15 22:14:53 <tinker-f595> did not happen with mine
Aug 15 22:19:09 * SDuensin is sorry if he's not too chatty.  He's building insane bash scripts.
Aug 15 22:19:25 <tinker-f595> why insane?
Aug 15 22:20:37 <Q_Continuum> They're either 8MB in size, or self-managing a cluster of servers. :-P
Aug 15 22:20:37 <SDuensin> It automates my Rosie builds.  One script assembles four (soon to be six) complete Linux mini-distros with all the software and such needed.  "Rosie" and "Homebrew" builds for both i386 and ARM.
Aug 15 22:20:48 <Q_Continuum> o.0
Aug 15 22:20:50 <Q_Continuum> nice
Aug 15 22:31:00 <Q_Continuum> Hmmm...is the 1.2GHz CPU overclockable to 1.5GHz, or is it a fixed speed based on the parts Marvel ships?
Aug 15 22:31:17 <Q_Continuum> (I'm not doing anything CPU intensive, yet, but am just curious)
Aug 15 22:31:36 * SDuensin is curious, too.
Aug 15 22:31:57 <Q_Continuum> Because a (up to) 25% speed bump would make a significant difference.
Aug 15 22:32:09 <Q_Continuum> And if need be, a small USB fan could be added, it could cool itself :-D
Aug 15 22:32:32 <Q_Continuum> But I don't find it gets warm yet.  (Haven't taxed the CPU though)
Aug 15 22:33:10 <SDuensin> Gets a little warm.  Not bad.
Aug 15 22:33:27 <SDuensin> Nothing like this crazy MacBook Pro on my lap.
Aug 15 22:35:30 <Q_Continuum> If not, just one more reason they should make a maxed-out model available.  Sheeva for "normal" use and a "maxed out" model for high-powered use.  I'd be fine with it in the OpenRD form factor, as I'd probably add a HD to it as well.
Aug 15 22:36:47 <SDuensin> Well, you can get a "maxed out" model.  You just need to pay the insane RAM price and buy several thousand of them.  :-P
Aug 15 22:37:11 <Q_Continuum> Except I have not the funds nor purpose for that many. lol
Aug 15 22:39:05 <SDuensin> Maybe I can do a "Rosie Pro" later.  :-)
Aug 15 22:40:10 <Q_Continuum> I could picture them offering a more 'loaded' model later on, launch the cheap entry level 512MB/512MB model to see how interest is, and offer a 'solution' for most...and if sales are good, offer a base model with more :-D
Aug 15 22:44:46 <SDuensin> This is so cool.  I love being able to do all these builds with one command.  :-)
Aug 15 22:51:15 <Q_Continuum> I wish I had the purpose for building my own distro :-D
Aug 15 22:54:29 <SDuensin> Q_Continuum: Sure, then you could be broke like me.  :-)
Aug 15 22:57:14 <Q_Continuum> I'm already broke :-(
Aug 15 22:57:31 <Q_Continuum> But I have half of a self-built AR!
Aug 15 22:57:32 <Q_Continuum> lol
Aug 15 22:57:49 <SDuensin> AR?
Aug 15 22:57:49 <Q_Continuum> Only need about $450 to finish it, then $200 or so to buy ammo to break it in...
Aug 15 22:57:52 <Q_Continuum> AR-15
Aug 15 22:57:59 <SDuensin> hehe
Aug 15 22:58:01 <Q_Continuum> Semi-auto M16/M4
Aug 15 22:58:09 <Q_Continuum> But that's another discussion for elsewhere :-D
Aug 15 22:58:19 * SDuensin wants a P90.
Aug 15 22:58:30 <Q_Continuum> $2k for a PS90
Aug 15 22:58:57 <SDuensin> Problem is, I don't want the 16" barrel.
Aug 15 23:03:52 <Q_Continuum> Depending on where you live, you could SBR it.  (Short Barreled Rifle) for $200 from BATFE.  (New name for ATF) and get the shorter barrel from FN
Aug 15 23:04:27 <Q_Continuum> AR build will run me about $1k with tools, when it's up and running.
Aug 15 23:04:37 * SDuensin is in Illinois.
Aug 15 23:04:37 <Q_Continuum> That's with all the tools I'll ever need to maintain it.
Aug 15 23:04:44 <Q_Continuum> Yuck.
Aug 15 23:04:48 <SDuensin> hehehehee
Aug 15 23:05:01 <Q_Continuum> One of the 5 states I refuse to step foot in.
Aug 15 23:05:21 <SDuensin> Trying to maintain our title of "Most Corrupt State in the Union"!
Aug 15 23:06:40 <SDuensin> Alaska and California are trying, but I think we've got 'em.  :-)
Aug 16 00:06:09 <SDuensin> Hey DDevine
Aug 16 00:07:36 <Q_Continuum> OH NOES
Aug 16 00:07:39 <Q_Continuum> EVERYONE HIDE
Aug 16 00:13:47 <DDevine> Greetings SDuensin
Aug 16 00:16:48 <SDuensin> Watching Linux build is exciting.  Up there with paint drying.
Aug 16 00:17:12 <DDevine> I like watching Linux build.
Aug 16 00:17:21 <SDuensin> Almost makes me feel sorry for the guys who have to work on Windows.  :-)
Aug 16 00:17:24 <Q_Continuum> I think I have *ONCE* done that.
Aug 16 00:17:40 <DDevine> I like watching Wine build aswell. And if people see you watching it build it makes you look hackerish.
Aug 16 00:18:15 <SDuensin> Oh, I look hackerish.  I got gibberish scrolling all over the place.
Aug 16 00:23:13 <DDevine> Wine and Linux take about the same time to compile.
Aug 16 00:23:31 <DDevine> ~25 minutes
Aug 16 00:26:10 <SDuensin> Not the kernel.  I'm building six distro images at once.  :-)
Aug 16 00:28:35 <DDevine> ah.
Aug 16 00:33:22 <SDuensin> It wouldn't be so bad other than emulating ARM on i386 is slow.  Takes forever to get that one built.
Aug 16 00:35:17 <tinker-f595> well finally had a shower...looks like I did not miss much...no amusing foolery
Aug 16 00:35:53 <SDuensin> Nope.  Just serious foolery.
Aug 16 00:35:58 <tinker-f595> yep
Aug 16 00:36:44 <Q_Continuum> SDuensin: any idea how slow the emulation is, and is there any better emulation software?
Aug 16 00:38:13 <SDuensin> It's slower than the plug on twice the hardware.  I'm using QEMU.  I don't know of anything else.
Aug 16 01:24:31 <Q_Continuum> Somehow I think my Sheeva won't be able to do everything I want it to...
Aug 16 01:24:32 <Q_Continuum> http://www.plugcomputer.org/plugwiki/index.php/User:Qlaras
Aug 16 01:25:34 <SDuensin> loading
Aug 16 01:25:56 <Q_Continuum> Am I expecting too much, or do I just start adding things until the load becomes too big?  (which is how it will happen, one thing at a time)
Aug 16 01:26:09 <DDevine> Q_Continuum: Maybe not 1 plug - but definitely two could.
Aug 16 01:26:48 <Q_Continuum> CPU load, RAM load, not enough ports, ?
Aug 16 01:27:57 <Q_Continuum> Where do you picture a single plug having the lack of power for that list of tasks?
Aug 16 01:28:27 <SDuensin> Should be able to do it.
Aug 16 01:28:37 <SDuensin> Most of that is on the list for Rosie 2.0.
Aug 16 01:29:06 <Q_Continuum> I just figured I'd work off Ubuntu, and just learn the server-ish side of that :-D
Aug 16 01:29:49 * DDevine restrains the "Ubuntu is a hunk of crap" rant.
Aug 16 01:30:05 <Q_Continuum> Now, IIRC, the only benefit of switching to the OpenRD form factor is for more I/O ports, correct?
Aug 16 01:30:12 <DDevine> Yep
Aug 16 01:30:21 <Q_Continuum> DDevine: I've been running it for about 3 years as my workstation OS without serious difficulty
Aug 16 01:30:23 <DDevine> well...  sort of.
Aug 16 01:30:50 <Q_Continuum> Same CPU, RAM, core chipset...just more USB ports and an extra LAN port, plus VGA etc
Aug 16 01:31:05 <DDevine> Q_Continuum: You are extremely lucky then. I have MUCH more success with just about any distro (except SLED, lol)
Aug 16 01:31:34 <SDuensin> I like Ubuntu.  My despised distro is Fedora.  :-)
Aug 16 01:32:10 <DDevine> I used to really hate Fedora, but since F10 I really like it.
Aug 16 01:32:20 <DDevine> When was the last time you used Fedora?
Aug 16 01:32:31 <DDevine> Fedore Core was really horrible IMO.
Aug 16 01:32:39 <DDevine> Nothing seemed to work for me.
Aug 16 01:32:47 <SDuensin> I don't like RPM.
Aug 16 01:33:15 <DDevine> Don't like RPM or don't like Yum?
Aug 16 01:33:16 <Q_Continuum> I've used Mandrake and Red Hat back in the day, but didn't stick with Linux then
Aug 16 01:33:25 <SDuensin> We can debate it later.  I'm off to Denny's right now!   (And I'd like to know what Ubuntu issues you've had - maybe I just don't realize it's sucking.)
Aug 16 01:33:29 <Q_Continuum> Gave Ubuntu a try 3 years ago and have stuck with it since then.
Aug 16 01:33:38 <Q_Continuum> Ditto
Aug 16 01:33:39 <DDevine> I used RH 8 and Mandriva for quite a while.
Aug 16 01:34:17 * timtimred still has RH6 in a VM
Aug 16 01:34:20 <DDevine> I do prefer deb (just works) but I have learned to live with RPM.
Aug 16 01:34:44 <timtimred> legacy build server....
Aug 16 01:34:57 <timtimred> :/
Aug 16 01:36:20 <timtimred> yum is ok but you stil end up using rpm commands for stuff
Aug 16 01:36:39 <timtimred> a minority of stuff!
Aug 16 01:37:47 <tinker-f595> Q_Continuum: just got back
Aug 16 01:38:00 <tinker-f595> Q_Continuum: that looks like a lite load for the plug
Aug 16 01:38:02 <Q_Continuum> sb!
Aug 16 01:38:06 <Q_Continuum> lite load?
Aug 16 01:38:10 <Q_Continuum> good news!
Aug 16 01:38:26 <Q_Continuum> Now only if Qwest would offer us more than .9Mbit upload...
Aug 16 01:38:29 <tinker-f595> I am running Apache2 and postgressql on mine and it uses very little resources
Aug 16 01:39:01 <tinker-f595> and ubuntu sucks only advantage it has is it has arm port
Aug 16 01:39:11 <tinker-f595> on x86 it just sucks
Aug 16 01:39:48 <tinker-f595> I wish Mandriva had an ARM port
Aug 16 01:40:25 <Q_Continuum> I use Ubuntu on my laptop/workstation; have since 5.10?
Aug 16 01:41:24 <tinker-f595> Q_Continuum: ubuntu us akways behind the curve
Aug 16 01:41:29 * Q_Continuum shrugs
Aug 16 01:41:43 <Q_Continuum> I want a stable system, I don't want to have to futz with it.
Aug 16 01:41:49 <tinker-f595> and has some weird problems
Aug 16 01:41:50 <Q_Continuum> 6 month upgrade cycle is good enough for me.
Aug 16 01:41:56 <Q_Continuum> I don't hit many problems
Aug 16 01:41:59 <tinker-f595> well ubuntu is not stable
Aug 16 01:42:06 <Q_Continuum> How so?
Aug 16 01:42:17 <Q_Continuum> I had some issues long ago, but none in the last 2 years
Aug 16 01:42:22 <Q_Continuum> that weren't self-inflicted :-P
Aug 16 01:42:26 <tinker-f595> it has limited hard ware support and gnome is funky on it
Aug 16 01:42:48 <tinker-f595> talking x86 version of ubuntu
Aug 16 01:42:53 <Q_Continuum> Yup
Aug 16 01:43:12 <Q_Continuum> I have 2 drives for this laptop
Aug 16 01:43:31 <Q_Continuum> new release comes out I do a fresh install on second drive, copy over user profile.
Aug 16 01:43:54 <tinker-f595> I prefer urpm to apt
Aug 16 01:44:08 <tinker-f595> much better orphan management
Aug 16 01:44:32 <tinker-f595> in my experience
Aug 16 02:55:58 * SDuensin is back!
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