**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 14 02:59:57 2010 Jan 14 04:58:30 hi; is it possible to boot reliably from SDHC? Jan 14 05:00:00 I presume so Jan 14 05:00:44 ok. I was going to get an sdhc card for my rootfs and a usb hard drive for auxiliary storage Jan 14 05:00:53 512mb is very little space :( Jan 14 05:01:22 depends on what you're trying to do with it Jan 14 05:01:34 yes, it's very little, but it meets my needs Jan 14 05:01:44 httpd server, bittorrent mainly Jan 14 05:01:49 also to run stuff Jan 14 05:02:10 lighttpd + a bittorrent client, with external usb storage... plenty o' space Jan 14 05:02:20 there's some stuff I want to run that requires filezilla (a gui FTP client) and there's no other way to do so Jan 14 05:02:49 huh/ Jan 14 05:02:59 filezilla worked fine on my 400MHz G4 Cube with 512MB of RAM and Debian-ppc Jan 14 05:03:08 so I don't see why it wouldn't work on the plug Jan 14 05:03:13 there's almost certaimnly a better way than a graphical ftp client Jan 14 05:03:27 yea well in this case the server end has a really weird text encoding Jan 14 05:03:29 almost no matter what you're doing, there's gotta be a better way Jan 14 05:03:45 and neither curl nor wget understand encodings? Jan 14 05:03:47 I haven't been able to figure out a way to force any text based ftp client to handle it properly :( Jan 14 05:03:50 I have tried Jan 14 05:03:59 nope, not in this case Jan 14 05:04:19 I believe it's KOI8-R (the Windows encoding for Russian) Jan 14 05:04:32 so I get garbage with curl or wget Jan 14 05:04:55 I even get garbage with filezilla unless I force the encoding in prefs Jan 14 05:04:56 ncftp Jan 14 05:05:13 grabage like Äîêóìåíòàëüí³ ô³ëüìè Jan 14 05:05:18 I think I tried that Jan 14 05:06:02 so is this actually ftp? Jan 14 05:06:05 or something else ? Jan 14 05:06:16 it is FTP Jan 14 05:06:32 why can't you just transfer it as binary? Jan 14 05:06:36 I'm looking at it right now in Firefox but the folder and file names are like Íàðîäíå ìèñòåöòâî Jan 14 05:06:50 then all my filenames are messed up and I have to manually fix them Jan 14 05:06:56 ie, curl --data-binary Jan 14 05:07:24 oh the data gets transferred fine Jan 14 05:07:26 the filenames don't Jan 14 05:07:48 so if I transfer a folder over all the filenames are mangled Jan 14 05:07:57 Oh. try setting the language before transfer then Jan 14 05:08:08 how would I do that for like wget? Jan 14 05:08:21 LC_ALL=KOI8-R wget {url} Jan 14 05:08:27 assuming that's the encoding Jan 14 05:08:52 Not that I mean to be grumpy, but having to crank up a GUI just to ftp something sounds really crappy Jan 14 05:09:49 mangled Jan 14 05:10:04 I know it's crappy, it greatly annoys me Jan 14 05:10:10 I don't want to use a GUI Jan 14 05:10:21 Are you sure that's teh correct encoding? Jan 14 05:10:25 what I ended up doing is using tightvncserver to make a gui that I can leave running Jan 14 05:10:30 ugh Jan 14 05:10:49 yes, ugh Jan 14 05:10:52 also, give ncftpget a try Jan 14 05:10:54 just to see Jan 14 05:11:35 ahh it's cp1251, not koi8-r Jan 14 05:11:36 oops Jan 14 05:11:43 ah Jan 14 05:12:01 what's the LC_ALL for that? Jan 14 05:12:09 russian? Jan 14 05:12:16 try Jan 14 05:12:17 yea it is russian Jan 14 05:12:29 cp1251 is the default windows encoding I think Jan 14 05:12:32 LC_ALL=ru_RU.cp-1251 curl -O {url} Jan 14 05:12:54 or maybe ru_RU.CP1251 Jan 14 05:13:00 or wget or ncftpget Jan 14 05:13:20 there's gotta be some intersection that doesn't involve vnc *shudder* or graphical ftp clients *shudder* Jan 14 05:13:53 oh, mo Jan 14 05:14:06 re likely the secobnd Jan 14 05:14:15 ru_RU.CP1251 Jan 14 05:14:39 might a Jan 14 05:14:46 lso Jan 14 05:14:50 lso Jan 14 05:14:55 wget: mangled in the exact same way as with KOI8-R set Jan 14 05:14:57 sorry, the dog is "helping" Jan 14 05:14:57 :( Jan 14 05:15:03 that's all right Jan 14 05:15:30 vnc was only used because this is a headless machine and it lets me do like screen; basically detach and leave things running Jan 14 05:15:43 graphical is annoying and I don't like it, but it's the only thing that worked Jan 14 05:16:09 I even recompiled wget with some compile time options that aren't included in debian (I think it was IRI support) and that didn't help Jan 14 05:16:36 though if I'm correct that's what's *supposed to* work Jan 14 05:16:53 IRI = International resource identifiers Jan 14 05:16:57 just like URI Jan 14 05:17:08 the other thing you could do is specify the filename to save as Jan 14 05:17:19 yea but I can't do that for a folder with fifty files Jan 14 05:17:42 that is the same as downloading and manually fixing later by comparing filesize and such Jan 14 05:18:35 see wget with iri support has --local-encoding and --remote-encoding options Jan 14 05:22:08 that didn't fix it? Jan 14 05:22:13 nope Jan 14 05:22:15 weird Jan 14 05:22:22 someone says it's only implemented for http Jan 14 05:22:44 could you humor me and try doing the get with curl Jan 14 05:22:46 then echo $$ Jan 14 05:22:56 oh Jan 14 05:22:57 erm Jan 14 05:23:12 you mean using curl to get a single file? I can't paste the URL because it's mangled Jan 14 05:23:28 I can use wget -m or similar methods to grab folders Jan 14 05:24:03 ah Jan 14 05:24:49 there appears to be no IRI parsing in wget ftp Jan 14 05:24:56 only in the http portion Jan 14 05:28:33 I found stuff like this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=415660 Jan 14 05:28:51 "use filezilla or crossftp" is the most common solution Jan 14 05:30:23 you might also try the LANG variable Jan 14 05:30:46 LANG=ru_RU LC_ALL=ru_CR.CP1251 wget -m {url} Jan 14 05:30:47 with wget? Jan 14 05:31:31 I can almost garauntee that there's some invocation that'll work Jan 14 05:31:39 same mangled text Jan 14 05:32:29 the problem is that on the server end the names are stored in this nonstandard encoding, and the client needs to be "forced" to see that Jan 14 05:32:47 filezilla or crossftp give the same mangled text if you don't force cp1251 Jan 14 05:35:12 anyway going back to the plug computer Jan 14 05:35:28 I was thinking of putting in an 8gb sdhc card for the rootfs Jan 14 05:40:23 I have an 8G sdhc plugged into mine right now Jan 14 05:40:30 but my rootfs is fine on the internal nand Jan 14 05:40:34 I see. Jan 14 05:40:43 I may want to install more stuff than will fit in 512MB Jan 14 05:40:54 is it possible to dual-boot? Jan 14 05:40:56 yeah, that's the main reason to want to use an SDHC instead Jan 14 05:41:18 well, "dual-boot". As in, connect to the serial console and change the boot param from mmc to nand and back again Jan 14 05:41:25 yea. Jan 14 05:41:33 it's meaningful but not necessarily as easy as grub Jan 14 05:41:39 there's no way to change the boot param without the serial console, correct? Jan 14 05:42:15 I believe that is accurate, es Jan 14 05:42:17 yes Jan 14 05:42:40 I see Jan 14 05:42:54 that's ok, though a little inconvenient Jan 14 05:43:13 the mac os x serial driver is a little buggy and caused some kernel pankcs :( Jan 14 05:43:16 panics * Jan 14 05:43:25 if I do it through an ubuntu vm it works though Jan 14 05:47:26 REALLY? Jan 14 05:47:28 oop Jan 14 05:47:30 really? Jan 14 05:47:34 Where'd you get it from? Jan 14 05:47:40 the VCP driver from the ftdi website? Jan 14 05:47:45 or something else? Jan 14 05:47:47 yes, FTDI driver Jan 14 05:48:01 weird, I've not had any problems Jan 14 05:48:04 I edited the info.plist to add the necessary device keys Jan 14 05:48:09 snow leopard Jan 14 05:48:18 both 32bit and 64bit kernel Jan 14 05:48:23 ah, I ahven't tried snow leopard myself yet Jan 14 05:48:30 it panics when I unplug Jan 14 05:48:31 not always Jan 14 05:49:06 that'd get old Jan 14 05:49:18 you're lucky, though. ubuntu 9.10's ftdi driver is buggy as all hell, too Jan 14 05:49:27 hah interesting Jan 14 05:49:33 at least it works Jan 14 05:50:06 not for me Jan 14 05:50:17 (I had an ubuntu VM lying around because I have a linkstation-ez [the one with only 16MB of RAM] and since its drive is formatted in XFS there's no direct way to get the data off) Jan 14 05:50:18 I wrote a userland proxy to get around that Jan 14 05:50:22 wow. Jan 14 05:50:39 also because the default globalscale sheevaplug didn't have an ftdi_sio driver when I got mine Jan 14 05:50:52 it just uses libftdi Jan 14 05:50:54 ftdi_sio driver? Jan 14 05:50:55 and creates a posix pty Jan 14 05:51:04 yeah, that's the linux kernel module that drivers the ftdi Jan 14 05:51:07 hmm I have a globalscale sheevaplug Jan 14 05:51:08 I see Jan 14 05:51:10 in 9.10 it blows Jan 14 05:51:18 interesting Jan 14 05:51:25 If you try to plug an ftdi device in, you may find that nothing happens Jan 14 05:51:45 http://icculus.org/obdgpslogger/modules.html Jan 14 05:51:48 down near the bottom Jan 14 05:51:49 obdftdipty Jan 14 05:52:06 most [all] OBDII usb dongles use ftdi chips Jan 14 05:52:14 my sheevaplug identifies as the "SheevaPlug JTAGKey FT2232D B" Jan 14 05:52:25 that sounds likely Jan 14 05:53:57 now I see the Plug 3.0 announcement Jan 14 05:54:16 I may end up getting one eventually, but it will probably cost more Jan 14 05:54:38 they haven't actually put any out yet Jan 14 05:54:43 I know Jan 14 05:54:51 You can't even order the 4-port USB one from ionics yet Jan 14 05:55:04 URL for that? Jan 14 05:55:25 As soon as my new psu arrives, I'm putting a 4-port USB hub in there along with the psu Jan 14 05:55:32 [butchering my globalscale plug, that is] Jan 14 05:55:34 http://www.ionicsplug.com/compare.html Jan 14 05:55:42 the numbus 300 Jan 14 05:55:49 http://www.ionicsplug.com/nimbus300.html Jan 14 05:55:54 They had one on show at CES Jan 14 05:56:10 ahh Jan 14 05:56:31 what are the ones like the Nimbus 2000 ? Jan 14 05:56:46 they seem to have a faster CPU Jan 14 05:57:15 looks like the same as the current ionics one, with the 2GHz CPU instead of the 1.2 GHz one Jan 14 05:57:36 the ionics plug makes the globalscale one look really ugly and huge sitting next to it Jan 14 05:57:53 hmm I see Jan 14 05:58:03 but the globalscale has the jtag built in Jan 14 05:58:08 yea Jan 14 05:58:17 ie, you get the sd and mini usb slots built into the globalscale plug Jan 14 05:58:18 the ionics doesn't? Jan 14 05:58:27 plus plenty of space to butcher it and change hardware around Jan 14 05:58:41 (the nimbus 100) Jan 14 05:58:46 no, the ionics one has a jtag slot on the side and you get a separate thing in the box that plugs onto that Jan 14 05:58:58 and that separate thing has the mini usb and sd slots on it Jan 14 05:58:58 ahhh Jan 14 05:58:59 that's clunky Jan 14 05:59:07 depends on what you're doing with it Jan 14 05:59:23 the jtag,sd,mini usb is only really useful when you're doing development, on the whole Jan 14 05:59:42 the whole point is that you develop your final product, create a nand image Jan 14 05:59:59 then ship a nand image to ionics and they mass-produce the plugs without the jtag slot on the side Jan 14 06:00:17 that way, once you're in mass production, you don't have this huge-ass plug with lots of empty space in it Jan 14 06:00:47 [c.f. the tonido plug] Jan 14 06:00:57 well sd is useful even if you aren't Jan 14 06:01:08 yes I saw those Jan 14 06:01:16 mh. depends on the application Jan 14 06:01:17 but yeah Jan 14 06:01:22 don't forget that you still have a USB slot Jan 14 06:01:24 some of them (I forget which) have only 256MB of RAM Jan 14 06:01:52 yea I know, but it's nice to have a second storage slot and the ability to muck around with the bootloader Jan 14 06:01:59 so you can still just use USB thumb drives if your requirement is "solid state removable storage" Jan 14 06:02:02 Ah, but that's the point Jan 14 06:02:07 once you're going into mass production Jan 14 06:02:16 it doesn't matter anymore Jan 14 06:02:20 you don't want tyour users to ever, ever, muck around with the bootloader Jan 14 06:02:27 exactly Jan 14 06:02:39 but I don't see why they need to omit SD Jan 14 06:02:49 because it goes throgh JTAG Jan 14 06:02:52 or half of the RAM, more importantly Jan 14 06:02:54 ahhh Jan 14 06:03:09 just wait until you notice there's no SD on the plug v3 Jan 14 06:03:21 turns out the reason for that is they use an SD wifi card to get wifi Jan 14 06:03:32 I mean, it's obviously not a separate card in actuality Jan 14 06:03:33 hah. Jan 14 06:03:43 in actuality, it's a chip soldered to the board Jan 14 06:03:45 I'd think marvell would use one of those chipsets they have Jan 14 06:03:50 but yea, they might use SDIO Jan 14 06:03:56 but that's the modification to the reference design that they do to make wifi work Jan 14 06:04:18 ahh. Jan 14 06:07:02 now I'm just waiting for my new power supply to arrive Jan 14 06:07:13 I see Jan 14 06:07:15 so I can make my globalscale plug do what I want Jan 14 06:07:23 what do you want to do with it? :) Jan 14 06:07:31 put it in my car, permanantly Jan 14 06:07:36 ahh cool Jan 14 06:07:44 and shove a USB hub in there Jan 14 06:07:54 since I have at least two USB devices I want to work with Jan 14 06:07:55 yea? and what would it be used for there? Jan 14 06:08:25 http://plugcomputer.org/plugforum/index.php?topic=1200.0 Jan 14 06:08:46 ahh that's really nice Jan 14 06:08:51 I had that idea before lol Jan 14 06:09:07 though I was thinking to do it on like an iphone or something more accessible to people Jan 14 06:09:25 well without the engine efficiency thing Jan 14 06:09:28 just tracking location Jan 14 06:09:54 people have been bugging me to port to the iphone Jan 14 06:10:12 the main issue with that is hardware access Jan 14 06:10:17 but for as long as I'm doing this project for fun rather than work, I see no reason to compromise my personal morals and port to the iphone Jan 14 06:10:38 well, it used to be a real big problem because until iphone 2.0, bluetooth was ridiculously crippled in the iphone Jan 14 06:10:47 true Jan 14 06:10:50 nowadays there are also some good wifi OBDII dongles Jan 14 06:10:56 although they're more than I can really afford Jan 14 06:11:16 ahh Jan 14 06:11:18 plus, OBDII dongles chow down on battery while they're plugged in, even if the car is off Jan 14 06:11:35 so what kind of OBDII connection are you using? Jan 14 06:11:36 bluetooth and wifi have no conceptual way to power down Jan 14 06:11:58 mh. I currently have an old [last gen] OBDKey Bluetooth. That doesn't get used much Jan 14 06:12:00 wait ... when my scan tool is plugged into the OBDII port it powers down Jan 14 06:12:12 (when the car is off and there's no battery in it) Jan 14 06:12:16 Ah. You & I are talking about different tools Jan 14 06:12:19 [it = the scanner] Jan 14 06:12:20 I see Jan 14 06:12:34 I also have two USB dongles; an OBDPro USB and an OBDLink USB Jan 14 06:12:38 you mean dongle batter? Jan 14 06:12:40 battery * Jan 14 06:13:08 http://www.scantool.net/obdlink.html Jan 14 06:13:11 I see Jan 14 06:13:38 but what I really want now is one of these: http://www.obdpros.com/product_info.php?products_id=137 Jan 14 06:14:05 those devices are powered from the OBDII port, which has a 12V always-on rail Jan 14 06:14:12 ahh. Jan 14 06:14:28 but the new obdpro device powers itself down when there's no 5v connection on the USB Jan 14 06:14:32 I see Jan 14 06:14:32 which is much better Jan 14 06:14:47 the bluetooth version costs so much more :( Jan 14 06:14:59 Yeah :-( Jan 14 06:15:12 // additional bluetooth module Jan 14 06:15:15 But I'm lost conceptually on what good the blueotooth does on that new obdpros device Jan 14 06:15:27 Because if you have bluetooth... how does it know when to pwoer off Jan 14 06:15:44 hmm Jan 14 06:15:46 I see what you mean Jan 14 06:16:01 but doesn't it know when the engine is shut off? Jan 14 06:16:04 I mean, I'm almost certain that one transistor in the right place would neatly fix my current OBDPro Jan 14 06:16:20 Sure, but there are valid reasons to want to talk OBDII when the engine is pwoered off Jan 14 06:16:25 true Jan 14 06:16:40 even if the key is out / set to radio mode? Jan 14 06:16:45 Yeah Jan 14 06:17:10 eg, you can still ask what trouble codes are set Jan 14 06:17:18 true Jan 14 06:17:35 the obdpro needs to be powered to do firmware updates Jan 14 06:17:49 but it can't draw power from the USB Jan 14 06:18:06 ah Jan 14 06:18:12 well it's late here, I'd better go Jan 14 06:18:15 I'll be around later Jan 14 06:18:16 the obdlink can draw power from USB for flashing, but is essnetially in a semi-powered mode Jan 14 06:18:20 yeah, late for me too Jan 14 06:18:23 bedtime shortly Jan 14 06:18:28 (right now everything is still running on my G4 cube) Jan 14 06:19:00 heh. I'm on my ppc Jan 14 06:19:37 there's 2.6GB used on the disk, so an 8GB card in the plug should definitely be plenty Jan 14 06:19:54 yea at least it holds up, unlike my NAS box Jan 14 06:20:26 heh. this powerbook has survived some sudden decelleration trauma too Jan 14 06:20:27 I tried to do bittorrent and other things with that NAS box smb mounted to the cube, and it couldn't handle the load :( Jan 14 06:20:32 hah. Jan 14 06:21:07 anyway, 16MB of RAM in a NAS won't get you very far Jan 14 06:21:16 the 350MHz CPU isn't really an issue at all Jan 14 06:21:23 it's the lack of RAM Jan 14 06:21:24 :( Jan 14 06:21:51 anyway I'm out Jan 14 06:21:53 good night Jan 14 06:22:20 g'night Jan 14 13:01:23 I have a means of consistently crashing my open-rd with the latest kernel... I tend to think it is more kernel related than patch related. I was wondering if - what's the latest git tree? And if anyone wanted to try this kernel on a plug to see if it also went boom... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 15 02:59:57 2010