**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 14 02:59:59 2010 Nov 14 03:00:16 :( Nov 14 03:00:29 I did... Nov 14 03:00:38 I was able to boot via usb to delete the .udev Nov 14 03:00:45 uninstall exim Nov 14 03:01:56 the 10/100 is because this is on my wireless router Nov 14 03:02:01 which is really a switch... Nov 14 03:02:06 but the rest of my stuff is gig Nov 14 03:02:27 i shudder at 100mbit file transfers Nov 14 03:06:36 when I do lsmod I get nothing... Nov 14 03:06:50 snowsnakes: what kernel are you using? Nov 14 03:07:12 uname -r : 2.6.36 Nov 14 03:07:22 cat /etc/issue : Debian GNU/Linux squeeze/sid \n \l Nov 14 03:08:02 snowsnakes: the kernels from sheeva.with-linux have all they need compiled in Nov 14 03:08:14 there are very few / no modules that need to be loaded; the hardware doesn't change Nov 14 03:08:18 Yeah, that's where I got it Nov 14 03:08:22 excellent Nov 14 03:08:27 so what's with their modules file? Nov 14 03:08:39 the modules.dep one? Nov 14 03:08:53 http://sheeva.with-linux.com/sheeva/2.6.36/ Nov 14 03:09:05 sheeva-2.6.36-Modules.tar.gz Nov 14 03:09:18 i mean, there /are/ modules, like for a webcam or something Nov 14 03:09:36 the system will work perfectally fine without it, but it won't be able to run that extra thing Nov 14 03:09:54 which extra thing? Nov 14 03:09:57 you still need to have the modules either way Nov 14 03:10:00 whatever the module is for Nov 14 03:10:02 the ony my boot log is complaining about Nov 14 03:10:10 ? Nov 14 03:10:29 did you download & extract that? Nov 14 03:10:34 no Nov 14 03:10:38 .... maybe Nov 14 03:10:57 wget it and tar -xaf sheeva-2.6.36-Modules.tar.gz -C / Nov 14 03:11:19 I think it's already there actually Nov 14 03:11:29 I ran a script from with-linux.com Nov 14 03:11:36 oh Nov 14 03:11:38 I'm 99% sure it dit that Nov 14 03:11:40 then yeah, that would have done it Nov 14 03:12:07 uuhh Nov 14 03:12:12 somebody else had this error before iirc Nov 14 03:12:16 can't remember what they did to fix it Nov 14 03:12:40 you did depmod, right Nov 14 03:12:43 and then rebooted Nov 14 03:12:44 ? Nov 14 03:13:03 nope Nov 14 03:15:06 lol.... Nov 14 03:15:12 I didn't look into this much Nov 14 03:15:15 WARNING: Couldn't open directory /lib/modules/2.6.36: No such file or directory Nov 14 03:15:21 I guess that would do it, eh? Nov 14 03:17:03 lol yeah Nov 14 03:17:13 you need to extract the modules Nov 14 03:17:16 seems fixed after mkdir, depmod, & reboot Nov 14 03:18:33 is it good to have the modules anyway? Nov 14 03:18:48 I suppose they'll be helpful if I'm trying to do more stuff later, right? Nov 14 03:20:05 even if you want to run like, a teredo tunneling for ipv6, you need the tun module Nov 14 03:20:18 so yeah, i'd deffinately say get the modules Nov 14 03:22:20 man... this thing boots so damn fast now... I love it Nov 14 03:24:08 lol Nov 14 03:29:37 can I somehow create an image and just restore it via TFTP? Nov 14 03:29:48 an image of what? Nov 14 03:29:54 the filesystem Nov 14 03:30:08 did you burn the filesystem with the ubi.img thing? Nov 14 03:30:16 like how I just tftp the kernel and uboot and tell it the location to write the data Nov 14 03:30:33 nah, I just copied the files from the usb Nov 14 03:30:48 there's not enough memory to load the entire filesystem Nov 14 03:31:11 it's easy enough to set up a usb and just have each plug boot it and write the ubi.img Nov 14 03:44:47 are there any legal aspects regarding buying sheevaplugs from global scale and reselling them with my software stack? Nov 14 03:45:19 nope Nov 14 03:45:22 it's a devolper kit Nov 14 03:45:29 afaik that's what you're /supposed/ to do Nov 14 03:45:51 yeah.. it seems like the developer kit is the special version I should be using to ...develop something... then have them build it Nov 14 03:48:18 so how do I boot into the minimal environment to do the restore Nov 14 03:48:30 can I do that without usb? Nov 14 03:48:47 now that I have a working filesystem... I should be able to put that on nfs or something right? Nov 14 04:01:02 snowsnakes: actually, yeah, you can use nfs if you want Nov 14 04:02:11 snowsnakes: what i would do would be to put the root onto a usb, play with it until you're ready to duplicate it, shutdown, and do the ubi.img creation process on your computer Nov 14 04:02:22 (it takes a while on the plug itself) Nov 14 04:02:50 then just use that same usb, or an nfs share to ubiformat it onto every plug Nov 14 04:05:33 any experts on using jtag with a guruplug around? Nov 14 04:11:18 mdm2k: present Nov 14 04:11:26 what 'cha need? Nov 14 04:15:46 so I just got a guruplug server plus, one of the new ones with a fan inside Nov 14 04:16:06 i have the same Nov 14 04:16:12 I've got the serial console working fine but I can't seem to get the jtag working Nov 14 04:16:19 every time I try to connect to it it just reboots Nov 14 04:16:41 what does the jtag do that the serial console isn't? Nov 14 04:17:25 for recovering from a brick by reflashing uboot for instance Nov 14 04:18:00 I've tried openocd and urjtag with no success Nov 14 04:19:19 what command are you using with openocd? Nov 14 04:20:43 I got board/guruplug.cfg and interface/guruplug.cfg from http://www.plugcomputer.org/plugwiki/index.php/Reflashing_images_on_the_GuruPlug and I've tried openocd -f /usr/share/openocd/scripts/board/guruplug.cfg after putting the files in /usr/share/openocd/scripts Nov 14 04:23:24 and when you run the openocd command it just forces the plug to reboot instantly? Nov 14 04:25:28 yeah, here's what it displays: http://www.crystalorb.net/mikem/openocd.log Nov 14 04:25:41 openocd hangs at that point and the plug reboots Nov 14 04:26:50 and you have the both of the wires on jtag board plugged in (securely) and the switch set to UART? Nov 14 04:28:42 switch set to uart, wires as firmly in there as I can get them in the way shown on the quick start guide pdf Nov 14 04:29:37 where did you get that openocd from? Nov 14 04:30:07 ubuntu 10.04 package, although one I compiled from source in OS X had the same behavior Nov 14 04:31:33 incidentally urjtag complains about TDO stuck at 0, in case that provides any clues Nov 14 04:32:08 what state is the plug in when you try to do the openocd? (I.E. at the marvell>> prompt, or booted into an OS) Nov 14 04:33:24 booted into linux Nov 14 04:33:52 doing it at the marvell prompt doesn't reboot the plug Nov 14 04:34:12 openocd doesn't print the Error: lines, but still hangs Nov 14 04:34:49 you do know that without spesifying any commands on the commandline, it's not "hanging" Nov 14 04:34:53 it's waiting for you to connect to it Nov 14 04:34:56 either with gdb or telnet Nov 14 04:35:00 (telnet localhost 4444) Nov 14 04:35:04 oh! Nov 14 04:35:44 well then, user error :) Nov 14 04:35:53 lol Nov 14 04:36:07 so i take it telnet worked then? Nov 14 04:36:18 so is rebooting the plug what it's supposed to do then, when it's booted into linux? Nov 14 04:36:59 probably; i wouldn't know though, i don't start it from within linux because it would corrupt it lol Nov 14 04:37:13 when you finish with the openocd stuff it reboots Nov 14 04:37:19 yes, it lets me connect and there's a prompt that accepts commands Nov 14 04:37:25 =) Nov 14 04:37:26 try Nov 14 04:37:28 nand probe 0 Nov 14 04:37:33 see if it's alive Nov 14 04:38:01 requires halted target Nov 14 04:38:07 oh Nov 14 04:38:09 sheevaplug_init Nov 14 04:38:12 nand probe 0 Nov 14 04:38:25 > nand probe 0 Nov 14 04:38:25 NAND flash device 'NAND 512MiB 3,3V 8-bit' found Nov 14 04:38:30 =) Nov 14 04:38:43 now you can do whatever you like with it Nov 14 04:38:50 I guessed "halt" to halt it Nov 14 04:39:01 does sheevaplug_init do more? Nov 14 04:39:06 halt will halt it, yes; but it's better to do sheevaplug_init since it calls halt Nov 14 04:39:11 and yeah, it initializes everything Nov 14 04:39:19 cool, thanks Nov 14 04:39:21 if you look at the guruplug.cfg Nov 14 04:39:25 all the commands are in there Nov 14 04:39:28 well Nov 14 04:39:30 not all the commands Nov 14 04:39:32 is there a convenient way to make a backup image of the flash? Nov 14 04:39:32 custom commands Nov 14 04:39:51 ubimirror, i would say Nov 14 04:41:11 alternatively, you can just mount up the nand (assuming ubifs) mount -t ubifs ubi0:rootfs /mnt Nov 14 04:41:16 and rsync it to a usb or nfs share Nov 14 04:42:30 http://www.plugcomputer.org/plugwiki/index.php/Enabling_UBIFS Nov 14 04:42:45 follow that if you screw up your nand very badly, or if you're not using ubifs Nov 14 04:43:23 i would reccommend doing all of the commands before ubiformat (obvously) on your ubuntu desktop/laptop Nov 14 04:43:42 since you can't mkfs.ubifs / Nov 14 04:43:52 (and you shouldn't do it to a running system anyways) Nov 14 04:45:34 reading Nov 14 04:45:56 thanks for your help :) Nov 14 04:46:13 you can (and probably should) get a "custom kernel" from http://sheeva.with-linux.com/sheeva/ Nov 14 16:40:53 anyone know how to play with the LEDs on the sheevaplug? Nov 14 16:41:08 I can play with the 1, but what about the others? Nov 14 16:51:20 snowsnakes: http://plugcomputer.org/plugwiki/index.php/LED_on_the_Plug Nov 14 17:23:07 whats up guys, I'm trying to follow the gentoo installation guide. I just netbooted from the tftp server and I'm inside and prepared my disks. But I have no network.... any ideas? Nov 14 17:34:15 inside what? Nov 14 17:34:23 maybe you need a different kernel? Nov 14 17:34:47 or maybe he needs to configure his network parameters? Nov 14 17:35:00 or bring it up Nov 14 17:35:54 snowsnakes: did the led info page help you? Nov 14 17:41:25 yeah, looks like good info Nov 14 17:41:36 very similar to what I found, except more detail Nov 14 17:41:37 thanks! Nov 14 17:41:46 I like the heartbeat one, that's pretty slick Nov 14 17:43:56 i'm dumb Nov 14 17:44:01 didn't run the net setup script Nov 14 17:44:26 my sheeva was so out of date that I decided to redo it. I wanna run ampache on it Nov 14 17:44:37 kind upset that it requires mysql and can't use postgres Nov 14 17:45:35 elfMobile: hmmmm Nov 14 17:46:37 elfMobile: I do not understand the obsession with the crappy mysql. postgres is far superior Nov 14 17:47:34 tinker-f595, I don't really know the difference. Most of my database stuff I use Django's Object Relational Mapper anyway Nov 14 17:47:47 ha Nov 14 17:47:49 I guess postgres is better on resources, acid compliant, not owned by Oracle, etc Nov 14 17:47:58 <-- django / Python fan Nov 14 17:48:40 I thought Django allowed you to use either mssql or postgres Nov 14 17:49:05 I thought django had an abstraction layer for that Nov 14 17:49:19 tinker-f595, exactly Nov 14 17:49:26 I need mysql because of "Ampache" Nov 14 17:49:51 I thought you said Ampache was written with django Nov 14 17:50:03 no... Ampache is php Nov 14 17:50:07 ugggg Nov 14 17:50:19 I know.... I know Nov 14 17:50:42 elfMobile: what are you attempting to achieve using ampache? Nov 14 17:50:44 but I really wanna get Amdroid up and running on my phone. Streaming access to my entire music library from my phone Nov 14 17:50:51 ^^ Nov 14 17:51:14 elfMobile: ever consider using icecast ? Nov 14 17:51:29 never heard of it Nov 14 17:51:32 ha Nov 14 17:51:55 http://www.icecast.org/ Nov 14 17:53:24 tinker-f595, is it more for running a radio station or can you just browse your music like its local and play stuff? Nov 14 17:53:47 you can do whatever you want with it Nov 14 17:53:55 it is fully configuarble Nov 14 17:54:09 hmm... looking for Android client apps Nov 14 17:54:34 you just use a modern browser Nov 14 17:54:47 that supports mp3 and or ogg Nov 14 17:55:43 looks like streamfurious for Android is a client Nov 14 17:55:54 http://www.icecast.org/docs/icecast-2.3.2/ Nov 14 17:55:56 I wouldn't wanna use a web browser from the phone. Native app would be better Nov 14 17:56:32 I have heard a lot of the so called native apps on android are just wrappers around a browser Nov 14 17:56:51 by the way why don't you want to use a browser? Nov 14 17:56:59 is android that crippled? Nov 14 17:58:03 no... the browser is awesome Nov 14 17:58:27 not heard of a browser called awesome Nov 14 17:58:27 its just that for music, I want a real music player, and not one that uses a flash client Nov 14 17:58:47 well if it uses flash for music it is crippled ;) Nov 14 17:59:20 what would icecast use then? Nov 14 17:59:25 html5 is rather new Nov 14 18:00:01 "html5 is rather new" only if you are stuck in IE world Nov 14 18:00:30 which I'm not and I'm html5 is still pretty new to most Nov 14 18:00:36 broswer would use a native mp3 or ogg plugin Nov 14 18:00:42 if html5 music is anything like html5 video we're in for some trouble Nov 14 18:01:02 if google can't get html5 video right on their own web browser using their own youtube.... its lookin pretty sad Nov 14 18:01:04 elfMobile: and what pages ahve you tried with html5 and which browser? Nov 14 18:01:19 Chromium, youtube.com/html Nov 14 18:01:23 *youtube.com/html5 Nov 14 18:01:24 hmmmm Nov 14 18:01:43 I have not been impressed with chromium Nov 14 18:01:45 clicker.tv is good html5 but still pretty slow Nov 14 18:02:40 you have to remember everything google does is about driving their advertising revenue or data mining revenue. It is not about optimizing user experience Nov 14 18:04:41 by the way this is a useful little page as you can see which html5 features have been implemented in the browser you are using http://html5test.com/ Nov 14 18:28:25 everyone's gotta pay the bills somehow Nov 14 18:28:30 for some people... they spy Nov 14 18:32:14 ? Nov 14 18:48:48 u and ur google docs rant Nov 14 18:49:05 well he is right snowsnakes Nov 14 18:49:12 i know Nov 14 18:49:26 I'm not sure what you have to hide... Nov 14 18:49:34 but I know I don't have much Nov 14 18:50:42 in 15 years there will be cameras that scan our irises and show ads as we walk by just like in minority report Nov 14 18:50:45 it's inevitable Nov 14 18:51:13 lol...I really wonder what 20-30 years down the road would look like Nov 14 18:51:36 it's 1984 come true Nov 14 18:51:45 In the movies its always instant meals that are powder and turn into a turkey dinner Nov 14 18:52:03 Your own holographic avatar Nov 14 18:52:04 that would be too good for consumers... the corporations don't make money off that Nov 14 19:00:42 although it's funny with privacy... Nov 14 19:00:49 I'm taking some high res photos of my sheevaplug internals Nov 14 19:00:58 and I'm hesitant to show the MAC address unblurred Nov 14 19:04:07 snowsnakes, I'd blur it but really those who spoof macs never leave at one mac address, they keep changing it Nov 14 19:04:29 yea Nov 14 19:04:31 so if someone stole your sheevaplug identity lol..they wouldnt assume it too long Nov 14 19:05:21 I suppose the worst that can happen is someone could try and mess with my warranty or something... the serial no is on there too Nov 14 19:08:06 lol @warranty...there is another truly unique identifier they use for that Nov 14 19:17:56 like your name? lol Nov 14 19:26:22 your MAC starts with F0:AD:4E:00 anyway, it's not all that private :) Nov 14 19:30:04 OMG HOWD YOU KNOW Nov 14 19:30:09 j/k Nov 14 19:31:48 it's interesting looking at the different aspects of ouis Nov 14 19:32:04 i was looking into the oui of my laptop and it's honhai industries Nov 14 19:32:09 which is foxconn Nov 14 19:32:15 which is kind of odd because the nic is intel Nov 14 19:32:26 so I guess it's actually up to the maker of the device Nov 14 19:32:34 same with global scale != marvell Nov 14 19:34:13 http://2xod.com/articles/sheevaplug%20disassembly/ Nov 14 19:35:49 my favorite: http://2xod.com/articles/sheevaplug%20disassembly/components.JPG Nov 14 19:49:34 anyone here run Gentoo on their plug? Do you have a cross compiler set up on another more powerful machine? Nov 14 19:56:27 elfMobile: yes, and yes Nov 14 19:56:29 =) Nov 14 19:56:51 is it easy to set up ? Is there a guide out there? Nov 14 19:56:59 yup; let me find it Nov 14 19:57:58 http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/cross-compiling-distcc.xml Nov 14 19:58:01 elfMobile: ^ Nov 14 20:01:18 elfMobile: armv5tel-softfloat-linux-gnueabi is the chost you want Nov 14 20:06:49 what should I put for MAKEOPTS on the sheevaplug then? Nov 14 20:07:03 the computer I'm setting up with crossdev has 6 processors Nov 14 20:08:23 well, i'd put 6, or 7 if you want to compile locally as well Nov 14 20:08:44 but be warned that if the 6-core goes offline, the plug will try to compile all 7 jobs by default Nov 14 20:09:11 there's a distcc configuration file you can edit the maximum number of jobs Nov 14 20:11:01 http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/distcc.xml Nov 14 20:11:10 has all your distcc options/explanations etc Nov 14 20:11:57 192.168.0.2/1 means 192.168.0.2 gets a maximum of 1 job Nov 14 20:12:04 (you'll probably want to set this on localhost) Nov 14 20:16:37 hmm... I need to have a PORTDIR_OVERLAY configured? Nov 14 20:17:07 not afaik Nov 14 20:17:21 and even if you did, you just point it to a folder like /usr/local/portage or something Nov 14 20:19:03 so create an empty folder? Nov 14 20:19:56 basically Nov 14 20:20:07 but like i said, if you don't set the variable it won't try to look there Nov 14 20:20:11 so it's not manditory to set Nov 14 20:22:25 it complained when I tried to run crossdev -t armv5tel-softfloat-linux-gnueabi Nov 14 20:24:26 oh Nov 14 20:57:42 does anyone know of the state of using the crypto hardware on these boxes? Nov 14 20:57:47 for speeding up ssh for instance Nov 14 21:01:45 snowsnakes: you have more to hide than you think. Exposing certain types of info on the internet can result in draining of bank accounts, identity theft etc. Nov 14 21:02:08 heh... back to that, eh? Nov 14 21:02:48 snowsnakes: you are pretty naive with regards to privacy issues Nov 14 21:02:53 and the implications Nov 14 21:03:15 I just keep all my important information written on a post-it under my keyboard Nov 14 21:03:25 passwords, credit cards, ssn, etc Nov 14 21:03:29 snowsnakes: ha Nov 14 21:03:39 single point of failure Nov 14 21:03:52 i prefer all my eggs in one basket Nov 14 21:04:01 they boil easier like that Nov 14 21:04:15 snowsnakes: I prefer my eggs freshly cooked in a tasty omelette ;) Nov 14 21:04:31 hehe Nov 14 21:05:17 I prefer to compile on the sheevaplug Nov 14 21:05:58 too slow Nov 14 21:06:23 snowsnakes: but enough of the metaphors. there are black hat data aggregators that scan the net. they look for items to key on like phone numbers and email address and grab the data and connect it up Nov 14 21:06:34 snowsnakes: what is your rush? Nov 14 21:06:55 yeah, I know... I don't put personal information on the net Nov 14 21:07:25 snowsnakes: are you sure? no facebook, no gmail etc Nov 14 21:07:27 I wonder if any of them are using image recognition to pull emails from images yet Nov 14 21:07:40 I don't use the same information between sites Nov 14 21:08:02 different user names and emails for each service i sign up for Nov 14 21:08:10 never use my real name for anything Nov 14 21:08:28 and what about online ordering or banking? Nov 14 21:08:52 always verify ssl cert Nov 14 21:09:01 I have seen some very interesting of data mining just using an email address as the starting point... Nov 14 21:09:01 delete any stored credit cards Nov 14 21:09:14 always use credit card with low limit instead of debit card Nov 14 21:09:21 nothing linked to bank accounts Nov 14 21:09:29 got any more rules of thumb? Nov 14 21:09:31 never ever use debit card on the internet Nov 14 21:09:33 those are all i follow Nov 14 21:10:09 what about online banking? Nov 14 21:10:20 snowsnakes: it amazes me the things people expose on the internet then they wonder why their bank accounts etc get compromised Nov 14 21:10:55 hehe, yeah... I try to instill paranoia Nov 14 21:11:13 I did read cyberia Nov 14 21:12:01 my concern with online banking is that even if you use ssl the account number is invariant and passwords do not get changed often so someone sniffing a stream could crack it with modern computer equipment in a relatively short time Nov 14 21:13:10 invariant? Nov 14 21:13:17 unchanging Nov 14 21:13:19 does not varry Nov 14 21:13:20 meaning it doesn't change?... except why is that relevant? Nov 14 21:13:37 because it makes it easier to crack the encryption Nov 14 21:13:44 there is more data that is always bundled with the account number Nov 14 21:14:02 so it's basically padded with data Nov 14 21:14:10 yes and the account number is always the same...makes it easier to crack Nov 14 21:14:43 but the other data in the pages makes it more randomized Nov 14 21:15:00 but it still aids in making it easier to crack Nov 14 21:15:27 cryptographers always look for the invariant bits first Nov 14 21:16:06 this is too much of a distraction and I have other stuff to do today... Nov 14 21:16:10 lol Nov 14 21:16:19 need to finish building a system for a friend Nov 14 21:16:31 hardware or software? Nov 14 21:16:38 both in a way Nov 14 21:16:45 what's the purpose? Nov 14 21:18:11 he has some physical disabilities and spilt soup in his last laptop so I got some custom keyboard and screen protectors for his new laptop Nov 14 21:18:20 and he hates windows ui Nov 14 21:18:43 so going to install linux with probably lxde... Nov 14 21:19:00 nice simple orthogonal ui Nov 14 21:19:50 well off I go Nov 14 21:26:05 >hates windows ui Nov 14 21:26:21 well there's a total failure of the entire windows business model right there ;D Nov 14 21:29:17 Tootoot222: it is amazing how many people I know use windows and hate it. They use it because it came preinstalled on their computers and do not know of anything better Nov 14 21:29:26 yup Nov 14 21:29:55 Tootoot222: MS has infiltrated the schools and library systems through their fake charity Nov 14 21:30:01 the only operating system they know mac, and think they have to buy an entirely new computer to get it Nov 14 21:30:05 only other* Nov 14 21:30:19 They give away old versions of software and take a charitable deduction and then get a lock in Nov 14 21:30:35 yeah, i hate that; my school uses windows Nov 14 21:30:41 80% of our work is done on the computers too Nov 14 21:33:19 Tootoot222: school? Nov 14 21:34:04 it's a charter school Nov 14 22:09:23 I hate windows Nov 14 22:09:26 but I also love windows Nov 14 22:09:58 For me right now the software compatability thing and the fact that I barely know linux keeps me from switching permanently Nov 14 22:10:08 there is almost no reason I can't use linux for my every day development Nov 14 22:10:28 but I have a few proprietary applications on my machine that require windows, and vm's just don't do it for me Nov 14 22:10:40 but I like the idea of vmware's thinapp concept Nov 14 22:10:45 that might change things in the future. Nov 14 22:15:10 I did some benchmarking on my plugs boot time Nov 14 22:15:24 i have a plain factory default plug... took 2 minutes 32 seconds to boot Nov 14 22:15:44 then a new kernel, new uboot, new debian on ubifs = 16 seconds Nov 14 22:16:14 snowsnakes, that long? Nov 14 22:16:24 ... Nov 14 22:16:29 what can I do to make it faster? Nov 14 22:16:41 well it does depend on what you have running at startup Nov 14 22:16:59 not much Nov 14 22:17:07 how can I get a list of everything? Nov 14 22:17:15 it's the plain debian install from a tutorial Nov 14 22:17:23 http://www.cyrius.com/debian/kirkwood/sheevaplug/install.html Nov 14 22:17:42 it should tell how long it took to boot before you login also Nov 14 22:18:09 I was thinking I might turn off the uboot delay Nov 14 22:18:15 that would chop off 3 seconds Nov 14 22:18:24 snowsnakes, well you can do a few things...look at the /etc/rc*.d script and see what has S** at your runlevel Nov 14 22:18:26 the nand initialization is enough to pause the boot Nov 14 22:18:31 enable boot logging Nov 14 22:18:51 or be lazy and install sysv-rc-conf and see it all at a glance Nov 14 22:19:42 where do I see how long it took to boot? Nov 14 22:19:59 I just see: Running scripts in rc2.d/ took 1 seconds. Nov 14 22:37:30 snowsnakes, it also depends on your boot media and what you pass to the kernel Nov 14 22:37:39 like your rootwait but Nov 14 22:37:42 http://www.bootchart.org/ Nov 14 22:38:05 check that out perhaps if you really need ridiculous boot time Nov 14 22:38:55 also change your uboot waiting time Nov 14 22:39:25 maybe you have to recompile uboot to change it in your current version...but don't make it 0 lol Nov 14 22:39:37 I did... and it didn't work Nov 14 22:39:57 lol exactly...gotta recompile it...it tried it a few times also Nov 14 22:40:03 there is an env called bootdelay Nov 14 22:40:06 lame... Nov 14 22:40:13 im not into compiling.. Nov 14 22:40:20 well that is what I mean your bootdelay Nov 14 22:40:21 never really got that far into linux Nov 14 22:40:30 well you built a kernel Nov 14 22:40:38 nah, I did, but it didn't work Nov 14 22:40:50 so I ended up using the sheeva.with-linux ones Nov 14 22:40:54 hehehe...well its the same principle Nov 14 22:41:18 well see how much you've learned so far? Nov 14 22:41:20 then if I totally brick it I'll have to learn more linux to jtag it back Nov 14 22:41:32 well its very hard to brick Nov 14 22:41:45 with ftdi access you can get it back pretty easy Nov 14 22:41:50 I think putting a bad uboot image in there will do it pretty quickly Nov 14 22:42:08 yeah.. it won't totally brick it, but it'll take longer Nov 14 22:42:09 well I should say super easy to debrick Nov 14 22:42:37 yeah... I did install ubuntu on my laptop yesterday just so I could do this kind of stuff Nov 14 22:43:10 snowsnakes, you're in over your head...next thing you know...Linux will be running on your toilet Nov 14 22:43:25 you're being transformed Nov 14 22:43:28 I'll keep that in mind, but I think for now the 950% faster boot time will suffice Nov 14 22:43:42 I knew that a long time ago, I'm just trying to stave it off while I still have a few friends Nov 14 22:43:49 HAHAHA Nov 14 22:44:18 soon you'll only be able to meet friends at Open Source Conferences...sad Nov 14 22:44:40 I already can't relate to people because the first thing they ask me is what kind of computer they should buy Nov 14 22:44:50 *facepalm* Nov 14 22:45:16 How mission critical is your application for your plug? Nov 14 22:45:46 right now not in the least, but when it is deployed in a few days it will be absolutely critical that it's up 100% of the time Nov 14 22:46:01 is jffs2 more stable in the long term than ubifs? Nov 14 22:46:15 because I'll take a long boot time for long term stability Nov 14 22:46:53 you want ubi Nov 14 22:47:08 it seems more advanced Nov 14 22:47:19 what are you doing to ensure your system doesn't lock? Nov 14 22:47:31 not installing stuff on it... lol Nov 14 22:47:36 You running /testing watchdog? Nov 14 22:47:37 nothing really Nov 14 22:47:40 nope Nov 14 22:47:44 pfff Nov 14 22:47:53 lol how can you ensure it wont livelock? Nov 14 22:48:10 nagios Nov 14 22:48:32 naw...I'll show you in a few...keep doing what you're doing and I make a wiki page Nov 14 22:48:49 at least I've been assured that my current software platform has run on a factory default plug for about 4 months now without issue Nov 14 22:49:08 I would like to make it as robust as possible so I would really appreciate that Nov 14 22:49:36 I'm not making the page like RIGHT now...but it'll be in the week Nov 14 22:49:49 no rush Nov 14 22:50:01 I'll be here Nov 15 01:03:35 do I need an initrd on my sheevaplug? Nov 15 01:03:39 do you always need one? Nov 15 01:03:41 period? Nov 15 01:24:01 snowsnakes: no Nov 15 01:24:24 initrd are traditionally used to detect hardware in distributions such as ubuntu and debian where it can be run on many different types of computers Nov 15 01:24:43 (you can even swap the harddrive after installing) Nov 15 01:24:47 kind of like a HAL Nov 15 01:24:55 initrds are used to detect the hardware and load proper modules Nov 15 01:25:02 on the sheevaplug the hardware never changes Nov 15 01:25:12 and anything that does can be detected by udev after the system has started Nov 15 01:25:15 (such as usb devices) Nov 15 01:25:27 initrds are used to load modules critical to the system starting up Nov 15 01:25:32 udev does everything after it's started Nov 15 01:25:38 so no, no initrd Nov 15 01:26:03 so the main reason i don't really need one is the uboot loads the kernel directly which already contains the necessary kernel modules? Nov 15 01:26:43 well, uboot doesn't have anything to do with it; it's the fact that the sheeva.with-linux kernels have all the proper drivers for the sheevaplug compiled in directly; instead of as modules Nov 15 01:27:01 if you made your own kernel and set lots of things as modules you might need an initrd Nov 15 01:27:05 so does the kernel usually load initrd? Nov 15 01:27:34 uboot loads the kernel, and passes it the initrd address Nov 15 01:27:36 bios -> grub -> kernel -> initrd -> init ? Nov 15 01:27:46 then the kernel un-gzips it and runs the contents Nov 15 01:27:49 uboot -> kernel -> init Nov 15 01:28:00 yup, pretty much Nov 15 01:28:10 excellent Nov 15 01:29:33 an alternate use for initrd's is that since they're essentially a full filesystem within (with it's own /sbin/init), they can basically be used to do anything Nov 15 01:29:38 a common use is an installer Nov 15 01:29:50 that formats disks and downloads a filesystem, for example Nov 15 01:29:57 yeah... so that's how I installed debian... ok Nov 15 01:30:35 this is kind of neat Nov 15 01:30:43 I found a win32 tool that clones usb drives Nov 15 01:30:45 yeah, iirc the debian installer is just a busybox install with a big 'ol bash script that downloads the debian tarball and extracts Nov 15 01:31:00 dd if=/dev/sdb1 of=/dev/sdc1 Nov 15 01:31:00 =p Nov 15 01:31:20 and saving to an img file? Nov 15 01:31:29 dd if=/dev/sdb1 of=/home/me/usb.img Nov 15 01:31:47 righto... i forget the "hardware" filesystem Nov 15 01:31:57 it's really funny... Nov 15 01:32:02 which can later do dd if=/home/me/usb.img of=/dev/sdb1 Nov 15 01:32:05 when you dig really deep into windows, they do the same thing Nov 15 01:32:52 too bad they don't allow it at every level Nov 15 01:33:00 doesn't really help anybody burried deep within the winapi Nov 15 01:33:08 heh, yeah Nov 15 01:53:37 how do I resize a partition... correctly Nov 15 01:53:44 I think I just fubarred one Nov 15 02:30:34 snowsnakes, you'll be better asking general questions in #debian and #ubuntu as there are more people there eager to jump right in and those channels are more general Nov 15 02:30:54 there are over 1k users in Ubuntu for sure...vs < 40 here Nov 15 02:30:57 yeah, I know... i thought tootoo was still here Nov 15 02:31:09 thanks for the thought **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 15 02:59:58 2010