**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 17 02:59:57 2011 Sep 17 14:32:49 hi Sep 17 14:33:10 I have a debian6 installation on my sheevaplug and there are some firmwares in /lib/firmware/ Sep 17 14:33:15 1-why are these here? Sep 17 14:33:21 2-can I get rid of these? Sep 17 14:38:41 paulk_: why do you want to? Sep 17 14:38:59 it's a grand total of 552K here Sep 17 14:40:44 humm because I prefer to get rid of non-free useless stuff Sep 17 14:41:53 meh I'll see Sep 17 14:43:06 seems to work as well Sep 17 14:43:08 :) Sep 17 15:52:01 typically these are firmwares for wifi dongles etc Sep 17 16:02:21 paulk_: that's non-free? Sep 17 16:02:45 kerio: It's very very rare that a firmware is free software Sep 17 16:03:14 and none of these are known to be free Sep 17 16:03:25 so... remove the package Sep 17 16:21:22 i think those are usually part of the kernel Sep 17 18:12:27 paulk_: when I have looked at the kernel driver source the firmware source it there. Many devices need the firmware loaded each time they are powered up. Sep 17 18:13:39 tinker-f595: yeah, I know what it is for Sep 17 18:13:50 it's the code that runs on the hardware itself Sep 17 18:14:12 so it has to be loaded before the driver starts talking to the hardware Sep 17 18:14:39 paulk_: so what is your complaint? Sep 17 18:14:47 that these are non-free Sep 17 18:14:54 pu Sep 17 18:15:00 what's "pu"? Sep 17 18:15:04 paulk_: and what makes you say that? Sep 17 18:15:21 what convinces me that it's non-free? Sep 17 18:15:31 or what convinces me that it's a problem? Sep 17 18:15:34 paulk_: if the source is in the kernel tree and GPl'ed Sep 17 18:15:50 the source isn't in the kernel Sep 17 18:15:52 it never is Sep 17 18:16:09 ah I just re-read what you wrote Sep 17 18:16:15 "when I have looked at the kernel driver source the firmware source it there" Sep 17 18:16:35 paulk_: I guess you have never bothered reading the kernel source code Sep 17 18:16:39 lol Sep 17 18:16:44 you're talking to the wrong guy Sep 17 18:16:58 I'm dealing wioth the kernel almost every day of the week Sep 17 18:17:00 with* Sep 17 18:17:06 I'm a developer on the Replicant project Sep 17 18:17:14 that aims to produce a 100% free version of Android Sep 17 18:17:23 so I do retro-engenieering Sep 17 18:17:34 and I hardly need to modify the kernel drivers for this Sep 17 18:17:51 so trust me, I have a pretty good idea about how it's going up there Sep 17 18:18:28 usually, what you get is a large array of numbers Sep 17 18:18:40 liek this: http://download.paulk.fr/firmware.h.txt Sep 17 18:18:42 like* Sep 17 18:18:50 paulk_:yes but do you actually work with the kernel source or are you just another java programmer? Sep 17 18:18:50 this one is for the Always Innovating Smartbook WiFi Sep 17 18:18:58 tinker-f595: retro-ingeneering Sep 17 18:19:03 is about low-level C programming Sep 17 18:19:14 using serials, ioctl, etc Sep 17 18:19:25 reading ASM code Sep 17 18:19:31 (even if I'm not good at it at all) Sep 17 18:19:52 I hate java Sep 17 18:19:53 btw Sep 17 18:20:07 paulk_: well android is as good at slowing hardware down as is MS Windows ;) Sep 17 18:20:28 what do you mean by "slowing hardware down"? Sep 17 18:20:49 it needs too much ressources? Sep 17 18:21:22 Inefficient use of resources Sep 17 18:21:30 why? Sep 17 18:22:15 It's mostly done in a clean way Sep 17 18:22:32 except for graphical acceleration for sure Sep 17 18:22:49 maybe the java stuff on the top is a mess Sep 17 18:23:12 If you have to ask that question...then you have not performed any performance testing with different OS and GUIs running on a piece of hardware Sep 17 18:23:42 of course I haven't Sep 17 18:23:45 I have much better to do Sep 17 18:24:51 paulk_: that sounds like the reply of an amateur. Comparative performance testing is importnat area Sep 17 18:25:05 I prefer usuability + freedom Sep 17 18:25:21 then why are you messing with android? Sep 17 18:25:29 because it's usable Sep 17 18:25:33 and easy to free Sep 17 18:25:35 barely Sep 17 18:25:39 enough Sep 17 18:25:49 there is SHR too Sep 17 18:25:55 that is GNU/Linux for some phones Sep 17 18:26:45 In mho maemo is much more efficient and usable than android Sep 17 18:27:02 maemo… Sep 17 18:27:03 imho Sep 17 18:27:09 it's meego now, right? Sep 17 18:27:21 meego is derived from maemo Sep 17 18:27:26 and meego is barely born that it had his head cut Sep 17 18:27:27 but maemo still exists Sep 17 18:27:34 reallyN Sep 17 18:27:35 ? Sep 17 18:27:38 both are open source Sep 17 18:28:00 but android is easier to port Sep 17 18:28:10 and phones that already come with android Sep 17 18:28:26 it's easier to only replace the non-free bits Sep 17 18:28:28 http://maemo.org/intro/ Sep 17 18:28:37 than to port a whole system and replace the non-free bits Sep 17 18:29:00 and replacing the non-free bits is hard enough to take a long time Sep 17 18:29:24 maemois a debian derivative Sep 17 18:30:40 multitasks really well Sep 17 18:31:01 but it doesn't come with a lot of phones Sep 17 18:31:03 I have both android and maemo devices in my collection Sep 17 18:31:10 maemo devices? Sep 17 18:31:16 can you give the name of 2? Sep 17 18:31:25 there is n900 + ? Sep 17 18:31:46 nokia 800 Sep 17 18:32:03 ah yeah, the one before n900 Sep 17 18:32:20 beagle board Sep 17 18:32:21 it's like OM neo 1973 and neo freerunner Sep 17 18:32:35 not a phone Sep 17 18:32:57 anyway, I prefer to focus on freeing what's easy to free Sep 17 18:33:23 because I find it much more important to have a fully free system than a system that'll go 500ms faster Sep 17 18:34:01 smartq5 also had a port of it Sep 17 18:34:37 well the android UI is a bit of a mess Sep 17 18:34:59 been fun, but need to get going... Sep 17 18:35:18 ok **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Sep 18 02:59:57 2011