**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 13 10:59:56 2006 Feb 13 14:30:04 hey guys Feb 13 14:31:28 hey rammy2 Feb 13 14:33:55 prepared my slug with a serial console Feb 13 14:34:08 i connect with minicom Feb 13 14:34:22 but when i type "ls -l", it prints out: Feb 13 14:34:32 lL$ llss - Feb 13 14:34:32 perLr-xr-x 2 root 0 0 Jan 1 1970 rfid Feb 13 14:34:41 the response is being displayed correctly Feb 13 14:34:54 but what i send to the terminal is displayed crappy Feb 13 14:35:00 most chars are doubled Feb 13 14:35:16 have minicom turn of "local echo" Feb 13 14:36:06 yep Feb 13 14:36:16 ah.. the rest is also being displayed crappy :( Feb 13 14:37:05 rammy- what serial cable ar you using? Feb 13 14:37:49 s/my/my2/ Feb 13 14:37:49 kitno455 meant: rammy2- what serial cable ar you using? Feb 13 14:38:43 i have seen issues like that with my home-built cable even with local echo off. Feb 13 14:39:06 so i added a cap to 'eat' those chars Feb 13 14:40:03 odd. Feb 13 14:40:20 I built my own witha MAX2332 and never had any problems. Feb 13 14:41:32 eh Feb 13 14:41:46 i use one, that a fried has built for me Feb 13 14:42:08 with a Maxim max3232 chip Feb 13 14:43:27 thats displayed, when i type "ls -l" now :x Feb 13 14:43:34 $ ++__ --++ Feb 13 14:43:34 Ä#L 0II . 2 _ÄÄ+ 0 0 J#Å 1 1970 133$I° Feb 13 14:52:44 weird. Feb 13 14:53:00 rammy2, have you turned off hw and sw flow control in minicom? Feb 13 14:53:07 you should Feb 13 14:53:16 I would try a loopback test of your serial cable to eliminate that from the equation. Feb 13 14:53:22 yep. good point. Feb 13 14:54:15 i also set 'modem has dcd line' to no Feb 13 14:54:25 and dtr drop time to 0 Feb 13 14:54:29 if that doesn't work, Unplug your serial cable from the slug (i hope you don't have it soldered!) and short the RX and TX pins and see if data is echo'ed back in minicom. Feb 13 14:54:40 right Feb 13 14:54:46 the center two pins Feb 13 14:55:51 the problem is that you have to apply power to the max chip though. Feb 13 14:56:15 it does not pull it from the pc serial port, huh Feb 13 14:56:47 have fun learning to take your connector apart :) Feb 13 15:04:28 err :) Feb 13 15:04:53 "I would try a loopback test of your serial cable to eliminate that from the equation." Feb 13 15:05:01 what? Feb 13 15:08:27 It's hard to explain but you basically want to test the cable without the slug. Feb 13 15:12:30 ah :) Feb 13 15:12:46 i think, the cable is okay Feb 13 15:12:54 you think? Feb 13 15:12:59 yesterday, i worked with it the whole day Feb 13 15:13:05 ah. i see. Feb 13 15:13:15 but yesterday, i had the same problem in the morning Feb 13 15:13:28 about 1 hour, all these crap came up on my mionicom Feb 13 15:13:45 i played around with the settings and on the slug by starting new gettys Feb 13 15:13:49 then it sounds like the cable and not the slug. Feb 13 15:13:59 and suddenly, it worked Feb 13 15:14:14 now, i powered off the slug and my box Feb 13 15:14:17 and its the same Feb 13 15:14:29 like yesterday morning Feb 13 15:14:48 how long is your cable? Feb 13 15:14:55 hmm 2 meters Feb 13 15:15:19 but that shouldnt be the prob..yesterday it worked several hours without any errors Feb 13 15:15:41 max232 getting hot? Feb 13 15:15:48 na Feb 13 15:16:02 hmm Feb 13 15:16:04 a bit warm Feb 13 15:16:24 cooler room yesterday? Feb 13 15:16:29 na Feb 13 15:16:31 well, there's still a problem so... Feb 13 15:16:46 but what im wondering about is that the data is transfered correctly Feb 13 15:16:53 a 2m cable could get flaky pretty fast when running at 115200bps. Feb 13 15:17:10 It can pickup interference like an antenna. Feb 13 15:17:22 cross-talk between tx and rx Feb 13 15:17:32 when i type some commands like "ls -l" Feb 13 15:17:37 they just work Feb 13 15:17:42 Most pro cables can't even guarantee that speed at 38400. Feb 13 15:17:50 but are not being displayed correctly Feb 13 15:17:54 that length? Feb 13 15:17:57 what kind of wire did you use? Feb 13 15:18:11 serial can be very finicky. Feb 13 15:18:20 hmm some standard cable Feb 13 15:18:29 but also at 9600, ive the same problem Feb 13 15:18:52 ok. that's odd too then. Feb 13 15:18:56 and the data is definatelly transferred correctly Feb 13 15:19:05 the outgoing data is ok? Feb 13 15:19:15 but incoming data is echoed? Feb 13 15:19:34 i can log me in with root/password in minicom and type ls -l :) Feb 13 15:19:52 and what exactly do you see? Feb 13 15:19:56 wait Feb 13 15:20:07 is root like rroooott? Feb 13 15:20:28 hmm sometimes Feb 13 15:20:37 but that would be the echo Feb 13 15:20:47 but its not Feb 13 15:20:55 then what is it? Feb 13 15:21:55 thats some of my kernelboot output, i see in minicom Feb 13 15:21:57 .Øixp400_eth: Initializing IXP$00 N.A AtHebNed Dbafeb sOFdgabaf 15 Feb 13 15:21:57 |Ä400 +: CPU LÄ _Ä (#ÄÄ_Ä|) = 266 MH> Feb 13 15:21:57 [__Ä_] |E+MP and thats the loginprompt Feb 13 15:22:15 _+++#_L+± LıÅ: Feb 13 15:22:28 now, i type "root" enter Feb 13 15:22:40 ok- so what does the word root look like Feb 13 15:22:41 and how did you test your cable at 9600? Feb 13 15:22:43 and he asks me for password: Feb 13 15:22:45 +++#_L+± LıÅ: __ÄÄÄÄ++ Feb 13 15:22:45 P#__±Ä_: Feb 13 15:22:57 wrong speed Feb 13 15:23:02 yep Feb 13 15:23:09 or borderline one. Feb 13 15:23:17 and thats the complete login: Feb 13 15:23:20 _+++#_L+± LıÅ: __ÄÄÄÄ++ Feb 13 15:23:20 P#__±Ä_: _Ä. Feb 13 15:23:20 F 15 16:32:13 LıÅ[156]: _ÄÄ+ +ıŠÄÅ *++ $ Feb 13 15:23:24 it's having a hard time locking on the speed. Feb 13 15:23:38 last line is my ash prompt Feb 13 15:23:52 the kernel sets the console speed to 115200 Feb 13 15:23:56 jep Feb 13 15:24:04 so is minicom? Feb 13 15:24:08 sure Feb 13 15:24:20 115200 8N1 | NOR | Minicom 2.1 | VT102 | Feb 13 15:25:01 errrr Feb 13 15:25:04 try moving the cable around, stretch it out, etc Feb 13 15:25:29 when i type "cat /proc/cm", it looks like that: Feb 13 15:25:41 ~ $ ccaatt //pprroocc//ccmm Feb 13 15:26:01 and when i press [tab] for the autocompletion, he prints: Feb 13 15:26:01 local echo or cross-talk Feb 13 15:26:08 yep Feb 13 15:26:11 ~ $ cat /proc/cmdLine Feb 13 15:26:29 stretch out the cable. Feb 13 15:26:36 u mean that rx/tx touch each other somewhere? Feb 13 15:26:43 Try shortening your cable or looping a ground wire along side it. Feb 13 15:26:56 no need for them to touch. Feb 13 15:27:02 inductive pickup Feb 13 15:27:14 is the max at the pc end or the slug end? Feb 13 15:27:21 the longer the cable lenght the worse the problem. Feb 13 15:27:39 arghs.. Feb 13 15:27:55 i havent change anything - when i type "cat /proc/cm" now, it looks like this Feb 13 15:28:07 $ ##++ //ÄÄ__ÄÄ//+M Feb 13 15:28:17 the max converts from +/-12V to 5V TTL and vice-versa so it's better to have it on the slug side. Feb 13 15:28:26 VoodooZ, i would agree Feb 13 15:28:42 we need the higher voltage on the longer cable Feb 13 15:28:55 Serial is designed to travel longer distances than TTL can so you have to use it to reach from the PC to slug and not TTL. Feb 13 15:29:08 and when i press [tab] + [enter]: Feb 13 15:29:10 ~ $ cat ÄOcMDLINe.. Feb 13 15:29:10 how long is the cable from the max to the slug Feb 13 15:29:10 root=/dev/mtdblock4 rootfstype=jffs2 coNsoLe=ttyS0,115200,8n noirqdebug mem=32M@0x00000000 babONd9s x1201HO<91 I . Feb 13 15:29:23 2 m Feb 13 15:29:27 ah Feb 13 15:29:29 10 cm Feb 13 15:29:30 and use a real RS-232 cable as you'll get problems above 1meter. Feb 13 15:29:47 the serial cable- is it good quality? Feb 13 15:29:58 dunno, but i think so Feb 13 15:30:02 i use a belkin 15ft cable cut in half Feb 13 15:30:38 My max chip is soldered to a little PCB 5cm from my slug on my robot with a DB9 connector so I can use a real rs-232 cable to connect it to my portable. Feb 13 15:30:39 is it 'fancy' molded rubber on the pc end, or a cheap chrome thing that screws together Feb 13 15:30:58 or even: does it have DB9/25 connectors? Feb 13 15:31:04 arg Feb 13 15:31:18 or gender changers, or a breakout box Feb 13 15:31:29 with punchdowns in it :) Feb 13 15:31:41 i havent had a real cable and a real connector Feb 13 15:31:53 home built is fine Feb 13 15:31:58 most of us are Feb 13 15:32:08 but don't expect to do 2meters though. Feb 13 15:32:16 the trick is that the pc side cable better be a real serial cable Feb 13 15:32:22 i use an extension-rs232 cable with male ---- female connector Feb 13 15:32:50 and my pcb with the max chip has a male connector Feb 13 15:32:55 your max has a connector? Feb 13 15:33:11 shit- get a shorter extension Feb 13 15:34:00 should be: SLUG--(TTL)--MAX_PCB----------------------------------------------------------(RS232)------------------------------------------------------------COMPUTER. Feb 13 15:34:19 right- i think that's what he's got Feb 13 15:34:54 would you classify that rs232 extension cable as 'expensive' Feb 13 15:35:18 dunno, i found it in an old box in our bureau Feb 13 15:35:19 :) Feb 13 15:35:23 a 2m belkin cable will cost 20 bucks retail Feb 13 15:35:46 how thick is the cable? same as a pencil? Feb 13 15:35:54 damn.. ill buy me a right ttl-rs232 connector and a good cable Feb 13 15:36:06 your max is likely fine Feb 13 15:36:16 try a quality serial cable first Feb 13 15:36:22 hmm yep Feb 13 15:36:42 but my max has a shitty female connector :) Feb 13 15:36:51 no biggy Feb 13 15:37:06 first, i have to buy and solder on a right female connector and then buy a standard good serialcable Feb 13 15:37:08 connect the max to the back of your pc dirrectlyu Feb 13 15:37:24 your pc is male, your max is female Feb 13 15:37:32 they should get together :) Feb 13 15:37:44 :) Feb 13 15:37:52 i'm serios Feb 13 15:37:54 try it Feb 13 15:38:13 you may have to take studs out of max Feb 13 15:38:20 yeh. but regularly, end devices have a male connector and serial cables have a female connector Feb 13 15:38:28 * rammy2 shall try it with shemale Feb 13 15:38:37 "studs"? Feb 13 15:38:43 the sex of the connectors shouldn't matter. Feb 13 15:38:56 you can get a serial cable with whatever end you want Feb 13 15:38:56 Just make sure the Max board is as close as possible to your slug. Feb 13 15:39:27 you obviously have the right TX-RX connections as you're getting data but it's corrupted. Feb 13 15:39:45 It's definitely an interference issue. Feb 13 15:40:36 is the max supposed to be connected to sheild ground? Feb 13 15:42:06 not sure but I think mine is. Grounding is of the upmost importance for asynchronous comms. Feb 13 16:47:33 NAiL, morning Feb 13 16:49:00 morning :) Feb 13 16:49:54 How did your builds go? Everything is working fine? Feb 13 16:51:24 yes Feb 13 16:51:48 Now I've been hung up with the DS101 :-P Feb 13 16:51:48 good. Feb 13 16:52:06 bad DS101! Feb 13 16:52:21 hehe Feb 13 16:52:30 I'm looking forward to the new release. Feb 13 16:52:36 No, it's fatter than the slug and has an ide-interface ;) Feb 13 16:52:40 so it's not bad :) Feb 13 16:52:51 it's bad for me though. :) Feb 13 16:52:58 yeah Feb 13 16:53:11 you should see how little space I have left in my bot. Feb 13 16:53:14 There's AFAIK one issue that needs to be fixed before release Feb 13 16:53:27 I'm trying to fit in a CO2 fire extinguisher and there's no space. Feb 13 16:53:38 issue with what? Feb 13 16:54:13 /etc/defaults/rcS isn't updated when reflashing. A run-once initscript needs to be created, that tacks on four lines to rcS (if they're not there already) and deletes itself. Feb 13 16:54:42 i see. Feb 13 16:54:58 Feel free to come up with a patch ;) Feb 13 16:55:12 hehehe. I knew you were going to say that! :) Feb 13 16:55:33 Yeah, I've been way too busy to get any slugos work done during the weekend. Feb 13 16:55:38 we'll see how my work day goes... Feb 13 16:55:46 My newlyflashed slug works just fine though Feb 13 16:55:52 good. Feb 13 16:56:03 NAiL, i just built. flashing now Feb 13 16:56:41 I could simply use the HEAD for my bot work but then I'm too tempted to 'make update' which usually breaks stuff. Feb 13 16:56:57 Having a source tarball prevents me from fooling around. sad eh? Feb 13 16:57:10 i have had good luck with head lately Feb 13 16:57:15 VoodooZ: Switch to svn. There are few upgrades ;) Feb 13 16:57:36 that's true. Feb 13 16:57:54 anyways, have to go to lunch now. I'm dying of hunger. cant' think... :) Feb 13 16:57:56 bbl Feb 13 16:58:00 later, Feb 13 18:08:07 NAiL, but svn wouldn't let me merge my changes though right? Feb 13 18:08:41 not to the releasetree, but it would let you merge if any conflicts would happen Feb 13 18:13:33 so if I pull the latest today and make my changes to it and then pulled again in the future svn would help me merge the changes? Feb 13 18:13:44 how? what software does it use? Feb 13 18:17:17 I've never had any problems with merging svn. There's far too few changes that are pushed to svn ;) Feb 13 18:17:27 None affect the root fs anyway Feb 13 18:17:36 (after a binary release, that is) Feb 13 18:19:04 ok. most of my changes are to the OE tree anyways. Feb 13 19:57:12 VoodooZ, you there ? Feb 13 19:57:18 always! Feb 13 19:57:22 hehe Feb 13 19:57:29 lol, missed you last weekend Feb 13 19:57:44 yeah. I noticed my name popped up somewhere.. Feb 13 19:57:49 I saw that you were the initial author of one of the bluetooth pages Feb 13 19:58:10 yep. A very rough draft it was. Feb 13 19:58:24 wondered if you had any experience communicating to the slug from a phone Feb 13 19:58:36 NAiL, btw, is the release going to use the new 2.6.16? Feb 13 19:58:38 want to use my nokia as a remote control & display Feb 13 19:58:51 eFfeM: Have you looked at the xmms bt remote control stuff? Feb 13 19:58:59 that would be pretty cool for my robot actually. (If I had such a phone!) Feb 13 19:59:15 (I haven't tried it, I just know I can control xmms from my SonyEricsson) Feb 13 19:59:24 No, I've only worked with ethernet emulation on bluetooth to give my robot an IP address Feb 13 19:59:26 ah, ok. you'll need one with symbian os Feb 13 19:59:57 this also seems pretty neat: http://bemused.sourceforge.net/ Feb 13 20:00:20 what protocol does it use? Feb 13 20:00:20 enough trigger for me to order a BT usb dongle, Feb 13 20:00:30 they are pretty cheap. Feb 13 20:00:43 the bemused thing? Feb 13 20:00:59 nope. the dongles. Feb 13 20:01:07 eur 20 for a v2 one with 200 m range Feb 13 20:01:33 mine is a cheapy starter kit I got with 2 dongles for like 30USD. Feb 13 20:01:35 the dongle is bluetooth, i assume it will be using rfcomm Feb 13 20:01:49 It's only 35m range but that's plenty for my use. Feb 13 20:01:59 I need it to be low-power for my bot. Feb 13 20:02:09 that's good. you can get some of these here for eur 10, they are bt 1.1 class 1 or so Feb 13 20:02:16 10m range or so Feb 13 20:02:19 You might want to read up on the bluez/bluetooth protocol stack. Feb 13 20:02:28 there are quite a few ways to connect to these things. Feb 13 20:02:37 i'm trying to, lots of info Feb 13 20:02:44 OBEX, BNEP, RFCOMM serial port emulation, voice... Feb 13 20:02:59 rfcomm seems the easiest to me Feb 13 20:03:02 The links from my wiki page should be very useful. Feb 13 20:03:08 will check Feb 13 20:03:31 btw didn't get the audio dongle yet. web page says 7-14 days; 11 or 12 have passed Feb 13 20:03:46 yeah, but because I was using sockets in my bot server code I wanted to have the robot IP addresseable so BNEP was best. Feb 13 20:03:58 yeah. they tend to be slow. Feb 13 20:04:02 ip addressable makes some things easier Feb 13 20:04:32 i'm still learning.... Feb 13 20:04:36 well, for one it allows you to use normal software as opposed to one specificially written for it. Feb 13 20:05:01 bt on the slug with a headset would also make VoIP interesting Feb 13 20:05:38 yep. The possibilities are endless! Feb 13 20:06:22 oh yeah, the slug already gave me a lot of fun and I learned a lot! Feb 13 20:06:59 me too. got me started in linux based robotics too and computer vision. Feb 13 20:07:17 All stuff I never thought I could do. All thanks to this project/IRC channels Feb 13 20:07:41 (and a lot of googling/reading!) Feb 13 20:08:09 same here Feb 13 20:08:33 i hope to manage some more stuff going in the next few weeks Feb 13 20:08:44 i'll probably report here and definitely update the wiki Feb 13 20:09:04 good Feb 13 20:11:10 ok, off to try this bemused program Feb 13 21:06:25 checked out this bemused thing that I mentioned before. Looks pretty good. seems a nice way to control audio playback on the slug although some work might be needed. Feb 13 21:06:34 i'll definitely dig further into this Feb 14 09:27:56 moin there :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 14 10:59:56 2006