Jul 23 14:05:24 <danage> [florian]: are you gonna be there in like 3-4hrs? Jul 23 15:37:15 <[florian]> danage: not sure Jul 23 15:40:33 <danage> me neither a friend invited me to go to irish pub :) Jul 23 15:45:16 <danage> moonflux: http://demo.chimeric.de/plugin:tag Jul 23 15:45:19 <danage> we'll use it Jul 23 15:49:50 <danage> phaidros: ping Jul 23 15:50:53 <CIA-37> nbd * r16962 /trunk/include/site/ (linux-gnu linux-uclibc): add sitefile definitions for ac_cv_func_setgrent_void Jul 23 15:51:30 <danage> [florian]: you could just mail me the patch? Jul 23 15:55:53 <[florian]> danage: sure, I will mail it to you later Jul 23 16:10:24 <Bartman007> danage: pong. Jul 23 16:10:42 <danage> Bartman007: wow that was close, about to logoff Jul 23 16:10:54 <danage> was gonna ask you about the TOH progress Jul 23 16:11:26 <danage> people are already starting to put router descriptions into the inbox, so it's important we're getting this up soon Jul 23 16:11:30 <Bartman007> I have two examples on a local wiki that we can discuss during the meeting, will you be able to make it? Jul 23 16:11:40 <danage> when is it Jul 23 16:12:30 <Bartman007> 20:00 CEST I think. Jul 23 16:12:40 <danage> today? Jul 23 16:12:51 <xMff> yes Jul 23 16:13:19 <danage> ok i bette rhurry then, about to go running Jul 23 16:14:57 <danage> ok let me put that annoucement on the main page Jul 23 16:21:59 <danage> ok i put a couple of things in meeting agenda please extend if anyone has ideas Jul 23 17:56:34 <glp> Nuwiki meeting: Jul 23 17:57:08 <glp> I'll be a little on and off during the next hours Jul 23 17:57:31 <glp> meeting agenda is here: http://nuwiki.openwrt.org/meta/ircmeeting#nuwiki.irc.meeting.agenda Jul 23 18:00:00 <jaskew> I'm new - missed the first meeting but would like to help with the wiki effort Jul 23 18:00:54 <glp> jaskew: welcome, and welcome :-) Jul 23 18:01:31 <glp> First topic: DNS switch? Jul 23 18:01:35 <danage> jaskew: excellent, welcome Jul 23 18:01:45 <blogic> glp: \o/ Jul 23 18:01:50 <danage> glp: i'm interested in attendance, could we get a little ping from everyone attending? Jul 23 18:02:01 <blogic> i did not even know this was going on in this style Jul 23 18:02:02 <blogic> :) Jul 23 18:02:13 <danage> just so we get an estimate of the number of people that potentially participate Jul 23 18:02:18 <danage> (at this stage) Jul 23 18:02:37 * moonflux is here Jul 23 18:02:49 <jaskew> <--- Jerry Askew www.askew.net for more info about me Jul 23 18:02:57 * glp is here Jul 23 18:03:26 <plambrechtsen> Greetings Jul 23 18:03:50 <glp> plambrechtsen: just trying to estimate attendance for the meeting Jul 23 18:03:57 * Bartman007 is here Jul 23 18:04:06 * danage as well :) Jul 23 18:04:49 <glp> but back to first topic? Jul 23 18:05:09 <danage> sure, thanks Jul 23 18:05:30 <glp> should we just go ahead and switch the dns to wiki.openwrt.org ? Jul 23 18:05:36 <Bartman007> as nuwiki contains all the content of oldwiki, I think it makes sense Jul 23 18:05:37 <plambrechtsen> I think so Jul 23 18:05:49 <moonflux> wouldn't be worse than oldwiki :) Jul 23 18:05:49 <Bartman007> I find the oldwiki namespace in nuwiki to be more useful than oldwiki itself. Jul 23 18:05:49 <plambrechtsen> as the oldwiki has a subset as well Jul 23 18:06:01 <danage> i agree with Bartman007 Jul 23 18:06:08 <plambrechtsen> I agree to bartman Jul 23 18:06:14 <plambrechtsen> the TOH is missing from Oldwiki Jul 23 18:06:28 <Bartman007> it's still there, you just have to know how to get to it :) Jul 23 18:06:30 <danage> the only con would be that a lot of people (potential contributors) may be turned away once they find the wiki in this, uncomplete state Jul 23 18:06:36 <glp> ok, Bartman007 and I will remind eachother to fix the dns Jul 23 18:07:08 <Bartman007> danage: I think oldwiki does more damage than nuwiki could. Jul 23 18:07:14 <plambrechtsen> danage, I disagree, as I think the oldwiki is far worse than the nuwiki Jul 23 18:07:18 <glp> danage: maybe add a note about this to the startpage ? Jul 23 18:07:21 <plambrechtsen> barman007 i agree Jul 23 18:07:22 <Bartman007> oldwiki is completely static, and many links are broken Jul 23 18:07:33 <danage> true, true. my concerns are resolved :) Jul 23 18:07:55 <danage> glp: yes, or simply change the note that is there at the moment Jul 23 18:08:20 <jaskew> As a new user of openWRT, I founf the most discouraging thing was the inability to update/clarify things that I found that were either unclear or wrong. Jul 23 18:08:51 <plambrechtsen> jaskew.. couldn't agree more Jul 23 18:08:55 <jaskew> AHving the ability to submit updfates would encourage me. Jul 23 18:08:55 <danage> jaskew: yes, that will be no problem in nuwiki. all you need is to sign up, existing articles may be changed by everyone Jul 23 18:09:12 <plambrechtsen> people who are unfamiliar to openwrt try adn find info in the wiki.. and it's just not there Jul 23 18:09:23 <moonflux> I think each oldwiki page should have a box at the top pointing to guidelines on how to create pages in the new wiki/pages_from_oldwiki Jul 23 18:09:26 <danage> for _new_ articles the rule is they can only be put into the inbox namespace Jul 23 18:09:32 <blogic> what is the url ? Jul 23 18:09:37 <blogic> nuwiki.op..... ? Jul 23 18:09:48 <plambrechtsen> blog yep.. Jul 23 18:09:50 <blogic> apparently yes Jul 23 18:10:03 <Bartman007> moonflux: the oldwiki namespace in nuwiki should not be modified Jul 23 18:10:09 <blogic> glp: i think i should add a ifxmips section :) Jul 23 18:10:17 <blogic> glp: my contribution :) Jul 23 18:10:21 <moonflux> Bartman007: exactly, so when I see a page in oldwiki, I know what to do Jul 23 18:10:27 <glp> blogic: that would be very good Jul 23 18:10:31 <Bartman007> moonflux: ah. ok. Jul 23 18:10:47 <danage> Bartman007: that needs clarification. i have, following phaidros' explanation, begun moving pages from oldwiki to nuwiki namespace Jul 23 18:10:59 <moonflux> and when a page was moved to the new wiki space, the box could be changed pointing there (and the old content just stick around) Jul 23 18:11:15 <plambrechtsen> moonflux... absoultly Jul 23 18:11:18 <danage> blogic: do you think we should start a section under documentation that contains every platform? Jul 23 18:11:36 <danage> moonflux: what do you mean by box? Jul 23 18:11:51 <plambrechtsen> danage... for each oldwiki page a "header" should be added Jul 23 18:11:58 <danage> right now, when i move a page, access to the oldwiki page redirects you to nuwiki Jul 23 18:12:11 <plambrechtsen> saying "this is the old wiki, we are updating, to update this page go to /meta to find out then put it in /inbox Jul 23 18:12:12 <Bartman007> danage: oh, personally I don't see a problem w/ turning oldwiki namespace pages into redirects as the content is added to nuwiki, I thought moonflux initially wanted to provide advice on how to edit oldwiki Jul 23 18:12:21 <danage> i see. Jul 23 18:12:36 <danage> the thing is: if we leave oldwiki intact, without redirectors, it will STILL confuse people Jul 23 18:12:56 <danage> so as we revise the oldwiki content in the moving process, there is no need to keep the oldwiki content, is there? Jul 23 18:13:04 <Bartman007> agreed. Jul 23 18:13:07 <plambrechtsen> for sure... so the oldwiki namespace needs a time limit before it gets removed Jul 23 18:13:19 <glp> danage: there are historical reasons Jul 23 18:13:28 <blogic> danage: yes Jul 23 18:13:32 <blogic> danage: imperative Jul 23 18:13:49 <jaskew> an oldwiki page shouldn't be deleted until someone verifies that all appliacable info has been moved Jul 23 18:13:49 <moonflux> I thought about pages like the one of the SE505. I plan to completely revamp it, but the old White Russion stuff could stick in the oldwiki Jul 23 18:13:51 <blogic> there needs to be this devide arch/platform/device Jul 23 18:13:52 <danage> ok good, so the procedure is: move pages from oldwiki whenever we can Jul 23 18:14:00 * moonflux is a bit laggy because he's cooking ;) Jul 23 18:14:02 <danage> if it's crud, create a new page in nuwiki and put a redirector? Jul 23 18:14:36 <plambrechtsen> danage... I agree.. Jul 23 18:14:55 <plambrechtsen> I think we should all work together over 6 months say to move as much from oldwiki as we can Jul 23 18:14:58 <plambrechtsen> then retire it Jul 23 18:15:20 <jaskew> can "Janitors" be assigned to purge oldwiki pages once it's verified that the info has been ported? Jul 23 18:15:42 <plambrechtsen> that way, if there was anything such as the white russian stuff.. move it into the nuwiki under doc/whiterussian or similar Jul 23 18:15:46 <Bartman007> I see no real point to "retiring" it as a whole unless all content has been rewritten to fit into the proper place in nuwiki. Jul 23 18:16:07 <nbd> we should add an automatic header to all oldwiki pages that displays prominently and in red that the contents may be obsolete Jul 23 18:16:08 <plambrechtsen> it's just important that we don't keep the same data in two places Jul 23 18:16:14 <nbd> hi btw Jul 23 18:16:15 <nbd> ;) Jul 23 18:16:17 <Bartman007> and I don't think it makes sense to rewrite all content as some of it isn't relevant. Jul 23 18:16:30 <plambrechtsen> so when a page is updated / replace from oldwiki, we link to the new place Jul 23 18:16:32 <glp> plambrechtsen: the white russian stuff should probably not be added to the new wiki ? Jul 23 18:17:12 <plambrechtsen> just think it adds confusion having the same structure still "linkable" under oldwiki.. Jul 23 18:17:33 <plambrechtsen> so there needs to be a way that page by page we update oldwiwki to link to new wiki Jul 23 18:18:17 * plambrechtsen hates having duplicate data in wiki that just keep on getting referenced Jul 23 18:18:29 <nbd> if we consider all oldwiki pages obsolete until proven otherwise and marking it as such, we should at least get rid of some of the confusion Jul 23 18:19:02 <nbd> and we could place a note about that on each page as prominently as we have to, to make sure that users won't miss this piece of meta-information Jul 23 18:19:15 <plambrechtsen> then its just a decision as to if we want to keep historical info such as the white russian stuff or not. Jul 23 18:19:16 <danage> Bartman007: thats why we should MOVE as many pages as possible. that way we keep track of what's been moved already Jul 23 18:19:26 <jaskew> I suspect there are lots of external links to the wiki. Has there been discussion about preserving thise? Jul 23 18:19:31 <Bartman007> danage: I agree with you there. Jul 23 18:19:40 <moonflux> so White Russion info should just die? Jul 23 18:19:50 <danage> plambrechtsen: the way is to MOVE pages Jul 23 18:19:51 <Bartman007> jaskew: most of them were completely botched during the wiki -> oldwiki move Jul 23 18:19:56 <moonflux> jaskew: the old links are alreay redirected Jul 23 18:19:59 <plambrechtsen> danage... agree! Jul 23 18:20:19 <danage> however, many pages are obsolete. they don't get moved but ignored. so i agree with having a phase of a certain time after which oldwiki gets dumped Jul 23 18:21:00 <plambrechtsen> danage.. having a time limit on the oldwiki also means that we have that on the header Jul 23 18:21:32 <plambrechtsen> so if anyone links into it externally they will find that the first thing they get presented with is "this is a old page, please update, it's going on x date" Jul 23 18:22:52 <danage> here is a page as an example of what "moving" does: http://nuwiki.openwrt.org/oldwiki/basicenduser Jul 23 18:23:50 <danage> plambrechtsen: it could also be like "this is an old page, if it's helpful please suggest to move it to the new wiki [and how]" Jul 23 18:23:50 * plambrechtsen oldest daughter has just joined me to "help me"... it has begun Jul 23 18:24:10 * plambrechtsen totally agrees with danage Jul 23 18:24:12 <danage> :) Jul 23 18:24:53 <plambrechtsen> Danage... see the linkage.. that's exactly what should happen Jul 23 18:25:49 <plambrechtsen> then monthly or whatever we can dump out the oldwiki structure and see what is left Jul 23 18:25:58 <plambrechtsen> to migrate that is Jul 23 18:26:00 <danage> good idea Jul 23 18:26:25 <danage> jaskew: i think when we move pages the oldwiki links stay intact Jul 23 18:26:52 <danage> any developer opinion on what to do with white russian wiki documentation? Jul 23 18:27:03 <plambrechtsen> the only "gotcha" i could possibly think is a 5 second redirect delay when linking to a oldwiki page Jul 23 18:27:06 <Bartman007> cat whiterussian > /dev/null Jul 23 18:27:29 <plambrechtsen> ie "you just linked to an old page, are about to get redirected to the new page, please update your links" Jul 23 18:27:49 <glp> white russian should probably be wrapped into a tarball and stored somewhere Jul 23 18:28:10 <Bartman007> glp: it would be a reason to not completely nuke oldwiki Jul 23 18:28:26 <plambrechtsen> I think historical stuff should be kept in some form... Jul 23 18:28:38 <plambrechtsen> good to know history if someone for whatever reason wants it Jul 23 18:28:44 <jaskew> wayback machine? Jul 23 18:29:01 <plambrechtsen> link in newwiki to tarbal sitting on downloads Jul 23 18:29:08 <moonflux> jaskew: good idea I think Jul 23 18:29:14 <glp> plambrechtsen: something like that Jul 23 18:29:17 <plambrechtsen> then run stats to see how often its downloaded by non-robots in 12 months Jul 23 18:29:26 <plambrechtsen> then rm -Rf Jul 23 18:29:27 <moonflux> just replace the current CamelCase redirect with one to archive.org Jul 23 18:29:38 <glp> moonflux: yes Jul 23 18:30:07 <blogic> maligor: ping Jul 23 18:30:19 <jaskew> well... It would be good if there was a message that says the content was moved to <nuwiki link> but the original can be accessed at <archive.org link> Jul 23 18:30:22 <blogic> maligor: you made uboot work with the PSC ram chip, did you not ? Jul 23 18:30:35 <blogic> maligor: can you send me the patch against trunk again ? Jul 23 18:30:55 <maligor> mmm Jul 23 18:31:03 <maligor> let me look it up Jul 23 18:31:05 <blogic> on ifxmips Jul 23 18:31:07 <blogic> ok, thx Jul 23 18:31:21 <blogic> and you also added ./gcj ?! Jul 23 18:31:22 <jaskew> but also would be nice if the proper HTTP response code were sent so that webmasters could learn of the new address (is that even used anymore)? Jul 23 18:31:31 <maligor> gcj? Jul 23 18:31:52 <Bartman007> jaskew: you mean 302? Jul 23 18:31:53 <blogic> the tool to mkae the ascii file to upload to the boot-uart mode of the chip Jul 23 18:31:57 <phaidros> hello :) Jul 23 18:32:04 <Bartman007> quick , hide! Jul 23 18:32:08 <maligor> maybe it's in my sent ityms still Jul 23 18:32:16 <phaidros> Bartman007: I would, why? Jul 23 18:32:24 <jaskew> I think so - I seem to remember that there are tools that look for broken or updated links and then report them to webamsters Jul 23 18:32:42 <danage> i like the direction this is heading Jul 23 18:32:52 <danage> (the wiki, in general) Jul 23 18:32:55 <maligor> blogic, well, I can resend the email, I still seem to have it :P Jul 23 18:32:56 <Bartman007> jaskew: I'll add it to my todo list. Jul 23 18:33:00 <plambrechtsen> ok... so review Jul 23 18:33:09 <danage> should end up as a great tool for everyone Jul 23 18:33:12 <plambrechtsen> Dns NuWiki to be moved to wiki Jul 23 18:33:57 <maligor> blogic, the psc stuff is just the config for asc upload Jul 23 18:34:05 <danage> whiterussian oldwiki contents to be tarballed and NOT be part of nuwiki Jul 23 18:34:19 <plambrechtsen> Danage.. yes.. Jul 23 18:34:23 <danage> migration rule: try to move oldwiki pages whenever possible Jul 23 18:34:32 <plambrechtsen> So.. move onto point 2?? Tags / Categories? Jul 23 18:34:34 <danage> glp: still here? Jul 23 18:35:25 <danage> note: i put some more stuff in the meeting agenda just a few minutes ago that came to mind, sorry Jul 23 18:35:29 * plambrechtsen 2nd daughter has just woken up... Jul 23 18:35:45 <jaskew> WRT whiterussian: some people are probably still using. What if someone wants to contribute info or update a page. They shouldn't be tunred away - there shoulc be an area for that Jul 23 18:35:46 * plambrechtsen the day has begun.. Jul 23 18:36:17 <Bartman007> jaskew: they can continue using the WR forums Jul 23 18:36:39 <plambrechtsen> bartman.. i agree.. Forums are good for support & patches if applicable to WR.. Jul 23 18:37:00 <plambrechtsen> otherwise 8.09.1+ is all in wiki Jul 23 18:37:02 <jaskew> ok- that should be stated somewhere so ppl don;t submit whiterussion info just to have it turned down Jul 23 18:37:36 <plambrechtsen> There could just be a conjoined /doc/whiterussian page with the highlights Jul 23 18:38:07 <plambrechtsen> ok... hoping to move things on.. Jul 23 18:38:32 <Bartman007> point 2 on the agenda? Jul 23 18:38:39 <plambrechtsen> one request from me would be to have a http://downloads.openwrt.org/kamikaze/latest Jul 23 18:38:50 <plambrechtsen> so we can link to that in the wiki.. Jul 23 18:39:23 <moonflux> plambrechtsen: I added http://nuwiki.openwrt.org/doc/latest Jul 23 18:39:30 <moonflux> just always link to that Jul 23 18:39:53 <Bartman007> plambrechtsen: as a developer I hate the term "latest" because it is abused. "I'm running the latest trunk build." then I find out it was latest as of a month ago. Jul 23 18:40:25 <Bartman007> I think the latest page in nuwiki is sufficient. Jul 23 18:40:28 <plambrechtsen> Moonflux I was thinking that we should be able to link as part of having stable image downloads from the TOH ardware page Jul 23 18:40:44 <plambrechtsen> or perhaps /kamikaze/stable ;) Jul 23 18:41:00 <moonflux> plambrechtsen: just link to the wiki page, it has additional infos :) Jul 23 18:41:17 <plambrechtsen> sure.. point taken Jul 23 18:42:32 <plambrechtsen> was just trying to see if in a TOH page. ie linksys wrt directly link to http://downloads.openwrt.org/kamikaze/stable/brcm-2.4/openwrt-wrt54g-squashfs.bin Jul 23 18:42:45 <plambrechtsen> or something similar from the hardware model page itself Jul 23 18:42:54 <moonflux> ahk, now I know what you mean Jul 23 18:43:05 <plambrechtsen> so people don't have to guess they need to go to brcm-2.4 or whatever Jul 23 18:43:08 <moonflux> I think we should have an additional page which explains all the flavors Jul 23 18:43:12 <plambrechtsen> just "this is the latest stable" Jul 23 18:43:28 <xMmob> moonflux: agreed Jul 23 18:43:32 <Bartman007> plambrechtsen: I would prefer a page that explains which image someone should use, but not link directly to it. Jul 23 18:43:49 <plambrechtsen> http://nuwiki.openwrt.org/inbox/trialtemplate is what I was kinda talking about Jul 23 18:44:05 <plambrechtsen> "installation"... you need to download this image.. plus these tools Jul 23 18:44:13 <plambrechtsen> and have all the info on one page Jul 23 18:44:32 <plambrechtsen> latest is probably a dirty word... perhaps stable :P Jul 23 18:45:50 <danage> plambrechtsen: yes i agree. the particulars have to be worked out. i moved the installing page and the configuring page Jul 23 18:45:50 <moonflux> btw, ad. point 4: I think the Pagename-Plugin is crap ;) Jul 23 18:46:01 <moonflux> I just linked to [[latest]] and the sentence was broken Jul 23 18:46:14 <danage> what needs to be on which page? i don't know. probably we need some smaller pages that can be linked to Jul 23 18:46:39 <danage> moonflux: hang on, lets do this page by page Jul 23 18:46:45 <moonflux> kk Jul 23 18:46:50 <danage> moonflux: ehhh sorry, topic by topic, according to the agenda Jul 23 18:46:59 <plambrechtsen> sure if there is a [[latest] or [[stable]] then linkage is easy Jul 23 18:47:18 <moonflux> danage: jepp, just noticed it and didn't want to forget it Jul 23 18:47:30 <danage> moonflux: it's on the agenda :) Jul 23 18:47:38 <jaskew> for installation: can it include options for both the 2.4 and 2.6 kernel versions if available. Maybe I'm off base here, but the brcm-2.4 vs brcm47xx options were confusing to me at first Jul 23 18:48:01 <danage> jaskew: that touches a very important issue: which VERSIOn of openwrt should the wiki relate to? Jul 23 18:48:06 <plambrechtsen> Ok... sorry.. bring it back to the agenga... Jul 23 18:48:07 <danage> trunk? current stable? Jul 23 18:48:24 <plambrechtsen> danage I think current stable rather than trunk.. Jul 23 18:48:29 <Bartman007> danage: stable for the most part, with trunk where applicable. Jul 23 18:48:33 <plambrechtsen> I think I am going to need to go.. Jul 23 18:48:47 <plambrechtsen> kids chomping at my heels for breakfast. Jul 23 18:48:48 <Bartman007> if a device is only supported in trunk, discuss trunk on that page Jul 23 18:48:51 <danage> plambrechtsen: you're right, i'll put a point on the agenda. plambrechtsen, Bartman007 that's what i put in meta:start recently, under mantra, but was gonna put it up for discussion Jul 23 18:49:34 <plambrechtsen> so... #2... Tags / categories Jul 23 18:49:34 <danage> ok so i just put it as point 2 in meeting agenda so as not to confuse Jul 23 18:49:48 <danage> plambrechtsen: point 3 now... Jul 23 18:49:50 <plambrechtsen> :P Jul 23 18:50:01 <danage> ok so it's TAGS and CATEGORIES Jul 23 18:50:43 <plambrechtsen> I think we need a formal list of all features that all routers have Jul 23 18:50:46 <danage> i tried the plugin as described in dokuwiki documentation, xMmob but it didn't seem to work, cf page linked Jul 23 18:50:51 <plambrechtsen> ie Net4x1 Jul 23 18:50:58 <plambrechtsen> or Net100MB4x1 Jul 23 18:51:20 <danage> plambrechtsen: yes, that would apply to namespace TOH - categories are specific within each namespace, right? Jul 23 18:51:53 <plambrechtsen> and UsbHighSpeed or UsbLowSpeed Jul 23 18:52:05 <plambrechtsen> or CPUBroadcom Jul 23 18:52:14 <plambrechtsen> or ChipsetBroadcom Jul 23 18:52:34 <plambrechtsen> just need a single place all tags are put.. then it can be up for discussion if they are needed Jul 23 18:52:49 <danage> good point Jul 23 18:53:04 <danage> does anyone know how tags/categories work? phaidros? Jul 23 18:53:07 <plambrechtsen> toh:categories Jul 23 18:53:29 <plambrechtsen> how they work could be on the categories page :P Jul 23 18:53:41 <danage> plambrechtsen: meta:categories Jul 23 18:54:20 <glp> danage: yes, back again Jul 23 18:54:24 <plambrechtsen> ok... so I think we all agree we will need categories, and that the list of categoies will be up for discussion... so.. Jul 23 18:54:48 <plambrechtsen> why not say.. "someone" will do a shell categories on meta:categories.. we all add our 2 cents until next meeting? Jul 23 18:54:56 <CIA-37> mirko * r16963 /trunk/target/linux/s3c24xx/config-2.6.30: use ext2/ext3 compiled in to allow booting from an ext2/ext3 formatted sd-card Jul 23 18:56:44 <plambrechtsen> does that sound reasonable for the tags Jul 23 18:57:06 <plambrechtsen> I am happy to start a list.. but like danage I am not sure "how" they work ;) Jul 23 18:57:12 <danage> yes, but we need to know how they work first, or is it just me? Jul 23 18:57:22 <danage> phaidros seemed to know Jul 23 18:57:29 <jaskew> I was hoping someone would explain :) Jul 23 18:57:36 * plambrechtsen danage isn't alone with the voodoo for tags Jul 23 18:57:40 <glp> plambrechtsen: probably best to start with something and then change if needed Jul 23 18:58:05 <danage> http://www.dokuwiki.org/plugin:tag Jul 23 18:58:31 <danage> and here for a demo: http://demo.chimeric.de/plugin:tag Jul 23 18:59:03 <danage> i tried it on the page linked in the meeting agenda, but it displays some crud that doesn't link anywhere Jul 23 18:59:58 <jaskew> What about categories - are they just part of the namespace heirarchy? Jul 23 19:00:32 <plambrechtsen> I think they should be treated one in the same ... Jul 23 19:01:51 * plambrechtsen gotta go... #3 daughter has woken up... it's all over rover for me for the next hour Jul 23 19:02:25 <moonflux> hm. maybe the installed tag plugin is broken? Jul 23 19:04:09 <jaskew> hmm - the docuwiki docs seem to use "category" interchangeably with "tag" and "anmespace" Jul 23 19:06:39 * jaskew has to leave. Please let me know if there is anything specific I can help with Jul 23 19:07:18 <moonflux> so the category plugin was superseded my the tag plugin (which doesn't work in nuwiki) Jul 23 19:07:24 <glp> jaskew: there should be added a summary of this meeting one of the next days Jul 23 19:07:28 <danage> ok so this is up for research. nothing to be solved here at the moment... anyone object if we moved on? Jul 23 19:07:32 <moonflux> namespaces are the path elements (ie. doc is a namespace) Jul 23 19:07:44 <glp> danage: ok with me Jul 23 19:09:49 <danage> ok so it's table of hardware, topic #4, Bartman007 you had something relating to this? Jul 23 19:09:54 <Bartman007> yeah Jul 23 19:10:28 <Bartman007> I found two plugins that looked rather interesting Jul 23 19:10:46 <Bartman007> here are the results: http://openwrt.padded-cell.net/doku.php/playground:playground Jul 23 19:11:26 <Bartman007> the first one is rather basic, and I like it quite a bit. it is called sortablejs and allows sortable tables using standard wiki syntax Jul 23 19:12:29 <Bartman007> the second one is called database2 and actually stores the data in an sql database. it is much more powerful but I'm a bit concerned about it because changes to the table are not tracked in the page's revision history. Jul 23 19:13:36 <nbd> i think we should stick to the first one only Jul 23 19:14:18 <danage> if we go by the first solution, we would need a powerful but simple structure with links to router descriptions (in form of normal wiki pages) Jul 23 19:14:30 <moonflux> the db one doesn't always work. privoxy returns a text/plain sometimes when I try to sort Jul 23 19:15:00 <danage> i like the looks of the first one quite a bit Jul 23 19:15:28 <Bartman007> danage: in the status column, each on links to the device page, just like the old ToH. Jul 23 19:15:31 <glp> yeah, the first one and then maybe with a little less info Jul 23 19:15:33 <Bartman007> s/on/one/ Jul 23 19:15:58 <danage> yes and then a really good template for device pages so they get a uniform look Jul 23 19:16:17 <glp> not sure if we need; frequency, storage and/or version ? Jul 23 19:16:21 <nbd> another thing: I'd like to keep the WiP status only on those devices which actually work to some degree Jul 23 19:16:25 <moonflux> I think the link to the actual info should be moved to the front. I clicked the spec page a few times in the old ToC Jul 23 19:16:34 <nbd> basically anything that users can actually test without screwing up Jul 23 19:16:42 <Bartman007> glp: frequency is cpu speed, that's rather important for a number of people. Jul 23 19:16:46 <Bartman007> nbd: sure. Jul 23 19:16:52 <danage> Bartman007: i think clicking the model should bring you to the wikipage, not the mfg. page. linking to that could go in the wiki page for each device, not really necessary in the table? Jul 23 19:17:03 <Bartman007> yes, that makes sense. Jul 23 19:17:14 <nbd> so many people keep buying completely unsupported devices or doing stuff to them simply because they were listed as WiP Jul 23 19:17:35 <danage> yeah, like me! Jul 23 19:17:38 <nbd> while in fact many of the WiP-listed devices we've only considered doing work for but not done any work yet Jul 23 19:17:40 <moonflux> maybe two pages: one toh for the stable release and one for trunk? Jul 23 19:17:56 <Bartman007> I don't like taht option. Jul 23 19:18:06 <nbd> me neither Jul 23 19:18:07 <Bartman007> fragmenting the toh got us into trouble before Jul 23 19:18:13 <moonflux> kk Jul 23 19:18:15 <danage> me neither, TOH should apply for trunk shouldn't it? Jul 23 19:18:21 <nbd> at some point we will have an autogenerated ToH for developer-supported devices Jul 23 19:18:26 <Bartman007> someone decided "Unsupported" devices should be on their own page. Jul 23 19:18:37 <nbd> but that'll be generated from a much more extensive and strict source of information Jul 23 19:18:38 <Bartman007> which resulted in much confusion. Jul 23 19:19:08 <nbd> well, moving unsupported devices away might not be such a bad idea, actually Jul 23 19:19:17 <danage> we should decide for either stable or trunk, and then note that ont he page Jul 23 19:19:19 <nbd> but we have to do it with the new structure from the beginning Jul 23 19:19:22 <nbd> not as a rogue effort Jul 23 19:19:31 <nbd> if we decide to do it at all Jul 23 19:19:31 <moonflux> stable I think as a user Jul 23 19:19:43 <Bartman007> nbd: I think I'd prefer a seperate table on the same page. Jul 23 19:19:49 <nbd> fine with me as well Jul 23 19:19:56 <nbd> but splitting stable/trunk isn't such a good idea Jul 23 19:19:59 <Bartman007> so it can still be hit when searching on the page. Jul 23 19:20:03 <nbd> ack Jul 23 19:20:07 <Bartman007> agreed. Jul 23 19:20:23 <danage> +1 Jul 23 19:20:50 <danage> but should it relate to trunk/stable? Jul 23 19:20:52 <Bartman007> currently the status column indicates the first release the device was supported in, or trunk if it only works there. Jul 23 19:21:05 <moonflux> the release notes could carry a "stable" toc for each release Jul 23 19:21:19 <Bartman007> I don't see a need for that. Jul 23 19:21:47 <nbd> that's something for my hardware database idea later Jul 23 19:22:01 <nbd> i.e. only containing devices that developers have or had access to or know for sure will work Jul 23 19:22:14 <danage> Bartman007: sounds good Jul 23 19:23:17 <Bartman007> what about glp's comment regarding less info? Jul 23 19:23:48 <Bartman007> I already pruned serial, jtag, and recovery (boot_wait) from the table, and tried to include important specs. Jul 23 19:24:19 <glp> Bartman007: I'm thinking in the direction, that it can be quite confusing to have to look across to much info Jul 23 19:24:29 <Bartman007> cpu speed, ram, flash, number of eth ports, wireless, usb and/or other storage all seem to be frequently requested specs. Jul 23 19:25:02 <Bartman007> I suppose we could drop platform since target is there, but I would prefer not to, I think it is useful Jul 23 19:25:06 <glp> I think the Target(s) is really good Jul 23 19:25:27 <glp> platform is also quite relevant Jul 23 19:26:21 <Bartman007> I'm thinking we can break the wifi and eth columns up a bit more. potentially y/n columns for gigabit, 11n, 11g, 11a, # of radios and # of ports Jul 23 19:26:34 <Bartman007> would lend towards column based sorting being more useful. Jul 23 19:26:40 <glp> is it possible to fit the whole width of the TOH on a screen with 1280x1024 ? Jul 23 19:26:42 <Bartman007> but that's three new columns... Jul 23 19:27:28 <Bartman007> glp: currently it appears to be on my machine Jul 23 19:28:09 <Bartman007> I should probably move status and target into the first few columns, then the core info fits on smaller screens. Jul 23 19:28:38 <Bartman007> I don't necessarily see a problem with a wide table as long as the most important data is closest to the front. Jul 23 19:30:05 <Bartman007> danage, phaidros: I know one of you has admin access on the wiki. could you install the sortablejs plugin? Jul 23 19:30:56 <Bartman007> I'll import the later and rearrange columns, and create a discussion page so people can voice their opinions (as we appear to have lost most people already) Jul 23 19:31:03 <Bartman007> the table later* Jul 23 19:33:20 <danage> Bartman007: done Jul 23 19:34:43 <danage> Bartman007: you should be able to use it now Jul 23 19:35:57 <danage> ok so what else: the pagename plugin was deprecated consensually now? xMff could de-install it in that case, or i could Jul 23 19:36:17 <danage> then: next meeting, 6.1 Jul 23 19:36:27 <danage> 2 weeks from today? Jul 23 19:36:57 <danage> we can keep some of the undiscussed items for next wiki meeting, no problem, most important stuff has been covered Jul 23 19:41:54 <glp> danage: will you make the call for next meeting? Jul 23 19:42:17 <danage> can do, but someone else would have to post it to the mailing list Jul 23 19:43:05 <glp> danage: I can do the posting, if you tell me when the announcement in the wiki is ready Jul 23 19:43:57 <danage> ok we'll do it that way Jul 23 19:45:53 <glp> I'll sit down tomorrow morning and write a summary :) Jul 23 19:46:46 <danage> awesome Jul 23 20:17:28 <plambrech> greeting.. what did I miss? Jul 23 20:18:22 <plambrech> no one home anymore Jul 23 20:22:39 <plambrechtsen> Ok... thats better.. Jul 23 20:22:55 <plambrechtsen> So... is anyone still online.. or has everyone gone to bed? Jul 23 20:23:16 <[florian]> danage: ping ? Jul 23 20:24:03 <plambrechtsen> florian... is there an IRC log somewhere i could find? Jul 23 20:25:14 <[florian]> plambrechtsen: not yet sorry Jul 23 20:25:41 <plambrechtsen> florian.. np... I assume it's all over, with everything done? Jul 23 20:26:06 <[florian]> I can try to put you the backlog on a pastebin if you prefer? Jul 23 20:26:06 <Bartman007> plambrechtsen: sorry, we voted you off the island Jul 23 20:26:17 <[florian]> danage: http://openwrt.pastebin.com/m2832a3dd Jul 23 20:26:32 <plambrechtsen> bartman, dangnabbit... I hate it when the tribe turns against me.. Jul 23 20:27:33 <plambrechtsen> So Bartman... was everything covered.. Jul 23 20:28:22 <Bartman007> plambrechtsen: I'll past my logs in a sec. Jul 23 20:28:57 <plambrechtsen> np... just on bus so have 20 mins to do something before my real job kicks in and the real madness starts.. Jul 23 20:30:07 <jaskew> I'm back too - seems like it was mostly talk about the ToH since you (plambrechtsen) left Jul 23 20:31:11 <Bartman007> plambrechtsen: http://openwrt.pastebin.com/f2e36c9d4 Jul 23 20:32:12 <plambrechtsen> Thanks bartman... are you East cost US?... wondering what the TZ is Jul 23 20:32:31 <Bartman007> west cost, Pacfic Daylight Time Jul 23 20:32:52 * jaskew is on US West coast too Jul 23 20:33:21 <plambrechtsen> Groovy... I am on the other side of the water from you ;) Jul 23 20:33:23 <Bartman007> UTC-7 Jul 23 20:33:33 <plambrechtsen> GMT+12 for me ;) Jul 23 20:35:27 <jaskew> Bartman: Los Angeles, SF or other? Jul 23 20:35:38 <Bartman007> jaskew: 30ish miles south of SF Jul 23 20:35:59 * jaskew ~30mi N of L.A. Jul 23 20:36:09 <plambrechtsen> <argh> work calls ... bartman could you e-mail me my nick @ gmail dot com.. Jul 23 20:36:15 <plambrechtsen> and can continue that way... Jul 23 20:36:37 <Bartman007> plambrechtsen: you want the logs emailed? sure. Jul 23 20:36:48 <plambrechtsen> No.. I have the paste bin Jul 23 20:36:55 <plambrechtsen> just if I wanted to ping a few things by you Jul 23 20:37:00 <Bartman007> oh, sure. Jul 23 20:37:17 <plambrechtsen> so i have your e-mail so I can sign you up to spam :) Jul 23 20:38:05 <Bartman007> plambrechtsen: .nz isn't too large. I estimate it would take a 1/2 hour of door-to-door searching to figure out where you live. :P Jul 23 20:38:57 <plambrechtsen> Hey... to drive end-to-end of one island is about 12 hours Jul 23 20:39:05 <plambrechtsen> and about the same for the other one as well Jul 23 20:39:25 <plambrechtsen> 900KM for one island for you guys who should have heard of the metric system :P Jul 23 20:39:40 <plambrechtsen> long and skinny islands.. with rubbish roads Jul 23 20:40:06 <plambrechtsen> See ya... better boot this server before customers in NZ can't make phone calls... Jul 23 20:41:23 <jaskew> Did anyone clarify the tags vs. categories question? Jul 23 20:41:57 <Bartman007> jaskew: I think that was put off so people can figure out what question needs to be asked. Jul 23 20:43:44 <plambrechtsen1> jaskew... reading through the irc log it seems that tags were the way to go as categories were retired Jul 23 20:45:11 <jaskew> thx - makes sense Jul 23 20:45:57 <plambrechtsen1> Ok... Bartman if you want to update my trial template... Jul 23 20:46:09 <plambrechtsen1> one thing I would like to see the the TOH reference / include the sub hardwares Jul 23 20:46:16 <plambrechtsen1> ie TOH includes TOH:Linksys Jul 23 20:46:24 <plambrechtsen1> so you only update /toh/linksys with hardware lists Jul 23 20:46:41 <plambrechtsen1> and /toh/start is regenerated daily or whatever based on the hardware models & tags Jul 23 20:47:11 <plambrechtsen1> Need to get my head around the plugins on how tags and including other pages works in douwiki Jul 23 20:47:31 <plambrechtsen1> me = out!! e-mail me bartman Jul 23 21:07:26 <neomilium> Hey Kaloz, according to https://dev.openwrt.org/wiki/platforms you are porting OpenWrt on kirkwood Jul 23 21:08:37 <neomilium> How this port is mature ? Jul 23 21:27:16 <glp> neomilium: you could try and test how well it works, if you have a device ;-) Jul 23 21:27:52 <neomilium> glp: i haven't the device, that's why i ask ! :p Jul 23 21:28:37 <Bartman007> neomilium: I think he has it set to boot off of sd currently Jul 23 21:29:00 <Bartman007> I'd like a sheevaplug, but I have plenty of other gear that I should play with first Jul 23 21:29:04 <neomilium> Bartman007: Sounds good ! Jul 23 21:29:36 <neomilium> Bartman007: I see what do you live ^^ Jul 23 21:30:15 <Bartman007> I'm not sure what you're asking. Jul 23 21:31:31 <neomilium> Bartman007: I want ot know if it is stable, usable, or in heavy developement Jul 23 21:31:39 <neomilium> s/ot/to/ Jul 23 21:32:43 <Bartman007> I think it is usuable, but I'm not sure. You'll have to wait for his response Jul 23 21:34:30 <neomilium> Bartman007: btw, thanks for reply. Jul 23 21:59:32 <danage> [florian]: thanks, will try tomorrow. promising? Jul 23 22:02:31 <danage> Bartman007: is the plugin working for you? Jul 23 22:04:09 <Bartman007> danage: won't be working on the wiki until I get home Jul 23 22:04:31 <Bartman007> but I'll let you know, thanks. Jul 23 22:04:36 <danage> ok just checking whether it worked. let me know if you need anything else Jul 23 22:26:15 <AndyI> [florian] ping Jul 23 22:26:53 <AndyI> [florian]: https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?pid=91749#p91749 Jul 23 22:35:28 <blogic> win 20 Jul 24 00:31:03 <mankash> xMff are you there? Jul 24 00:33:12 <mankash> Bartman007 are you there Jul 24 00:34:54 <Bartman007> heh. just arrived. Jul 24 00:35:40 <mankash> need your help to help sweetpi Jul 24 00:35:57 <mankash> he is at the cfe prompt Jul 24 00:36:09 <mankash> how to unbrick the router Jul 24 00:36:56 <mankash> I remember you told once that one need to erase something from nvram **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jul 24 02:59:57 2009

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 23 02:59:57 2009 Jul 23 12:16:39 howdy Jul 23 12:17:03 hi Jul 23 12:18:06 there is supposed to be this wiki meeting in about 6 hours Jul 23 12:18:28 indeed Jul 23 12:18:50 the pain is I didn't get my tz right Jul 23 12:19:12 hm? Jul 23 12:19:56 I'm in new zealand and it's going to be 6am Jul 23 12:20:15 thought it was going to be 8am local time Jul 23 12:20:38 ah Jul 23 12:21:01 going to send glp an email saying I am not sure if I will be there Jul 23 12:21:03 so you can't attend at 6am ? Jul 23 12:21:24 humm mid crazy time feeding kids Jul 23 12:21:43 wife won't be happy with me punching into iPhone or pappy Jul 23 12:22:15 :) Jul 23 12:22:38 maybe we can push it a bit Jul 23 12:23:00 for me it's 8pm and it's a bit too early for me too Jul 23 12:23:04 ping glp Jul 23 12:23:59 hmmm just feeding one of my little ones now Jul 23 12:24:46 just sorted iPhone irc client ... life much easier on this... Jul 23 12:25:23 let's stick with 8pm cet.. I might just need to leave early Jul 23 12:26:13 okay Jul 23 12:26:26 otherwise don't think 10pm would fly... to late for all? Jul 23 12:26:56 we'll see Jul 23 12:27:11 I can provide irclogs at least if you're not here Jul 23 12:27:18 just feel like an idiot for not checking world clock sooner Jul 23 12:27:24 np Jul 23 12:28:58 plambrech: hi Jul 23 12:29:04 ok daughter fed me = bed ... caio Jul 23 12:35:32 florian * r16960 /trunk/target/linux/generic-2.6/config-2.6.30: [kernel] add missing 2.6.30 HID configuration symbols Jul 23 12:35:58 florian * r16961 /trunk/target/linux/orion/config-default: [orion] add missing kernel configuration symbol (#5564) Jul 23 12:36:00 danage: too late :) Jul 23 12:43:12 xMff: no problem Jul 23 12:43:31 hey xMff what do you see as prerequisites for making nuwiki wiki.openwrt.org Jul 23 12:43:44 we need editors, but noone know about nuwiki Jul 23 12:43:52 <[florian]> danage: ready to test a patch for bcm6345 ? Jul 23 12:44:02 oh wow, yeah later tonight of course Jul 23 12:44:12 still at work with no router at hand :) Jul 23 12:44:24 danage: I think we're almost there, we should elimminate the red links at doc:index at least Jul 23 12:44:54 xMff: agreed. then, the whole thing should have enough inertia to take off by itself Jul 23 12:45:06 danage: and we need to quickly process suggestions after the switch to encourage ppl. to submit stuff Jul 23 12:45:31 xMff: yeah i have time to do that kind of stuff during the next 4 weeks, roundabout Jul 23 12:45:32 the rest, esp. documentation correctness, can be solved in Q&A sessions here Jul 23 12:45:37 xMff: do you have knowledge about Bartman007's TOH progress? if that were running, that would be a big win Jul 23 12:45:50 xMff: yes, or edited directly by the people who know Jul 23 12:46:14 danage: nope Jul 23 12:46:27 Bartman007: ping Jul 23 12:46:42 he might not be up yet, it's quarter till 8 in california Jul 23 12:47:45 xMff: it should also be discussed whether moving info from trac wiki to nuwiki could make sense Jul 23 12:47:55 I think the nuwiki guidelines are still not clear enough to get started Jul 23 12:48:02 But I guess that can be discussed later ;) Jul 23 12:48:15 moonflux: or right now, what do you think needs a changing? Jul 23 12:48:42 at least from my point of view, it's all still in a very suggestive stage where changes can be implemented at almost no cost Jul 23 12:48:55 "cost" in the sense of losing integrity of what's already there Jul 23 12:48:55 Well, the mantra is don't repeat and no deep nested structure, right? Jul 23 12:49:02 indeed Jul 23 12:49:17 I recently wanted to write a mini-howto on how to use sft on openwrt Jul 23 12:49:22 But had no idea where to put it Jul 23 12:49:25 ah Jul 23 12:49:29 sft == sftp Jul 23 12:49:30 put it in the inbox Jul 23 12:49:52 so essence of what you're saying is: make it simpler for contributors? Jul 23 12:49:57 Yeah, but with some prefix like howto? or mini-howto like the old wiki had? Jul 23 12:49:58 Yes Jul 23 12:50:11 Like "I want to write a text, what shall I do" Jul 23 12:50:15 I think contributers can just drop stuff in inbox, moderators take care (and blame) for the structure Jul 23 12:50:28 actually, no, you could point out where you want it either in the article or it's name so that the mod can put it accordingly Jul 23 12:50:37 i.e. suggest Jul 23 12:50:53 good point, very good point Jul 23 12:50:57 Problem is that there aren't many examples on how to do name articles yet Jul 23 12:50:59 and also, the howto would be highly appreciated :)= Jul 23 12:51:15 Well, I'll just write it and put it in the inbox Jul 23 12:51:31 howto allow sftp mounting on openwrt: opkg update; opkg install openssh-sftp-server :P Jul 23 12:51:44 I also think the "don't repeat" mantra means that most articles should be split in small chunks which can be referenced from others Jul 23 12:52:02 Like: For sshfs you need sftp and a public key at the server side Jul 23 12:52:07 yeah Jul 23 12:52:12 Of course that could be crammed in a general SSH howto Jul 23 12:52:15 yup Jul 23 12:52:19 Or into three small articles Jul 23 12:52:34 Oh, also: Is there a way to tag/categorize articles? Jul 23 12:52:43 So all these three mini articles would be tagged ssh Jul 23 12:52:46 see that i haven't found out yet Jul 23 12:52:52 xMff: how do we do that? Jul 23 12:53:07 danage: no idea :) Jul 23 12:53:12 hehe Jul 23 12:54:02 http://www.dokuwiki.org/plugin:tag Jul 23 12:54:41 we have that installed Jul 23 12:54:46 ah, kk Jul 23 12:54:55 but not used it yet iirc Jul 23 12:54:55 I'll have a try Jul 23 12:56:01 Also: I think there is a plugin for better redirection to start pages. Like when I enter http://nuwiki.openwrt.org/doc I get a 404 but should be redirected to http://nuwiki.openwrt.org/doc/start Jul 23 12:56:17 (or http://nuwiki.openwrt.org/doc/ but I have to type the trailing slash) Jul 23 12:57:41 fixed Jul 23 12:57:49 moonflux: http://nuwiki.openwrt.org/meta/start i added a quick overview to make it simpler. i will now edit inbox Jul 23 13:00:25 hehe, yeah the page is locked ;) Jul 23 13:00:39 locked? Jul 23 13:00:43 can you read it? Jul 23 13:00:44 danage: we also need to extend the release paragraph of start, need to explain that there is a stable branch, a latest release and trunk snapshots Jul 23 13:01:02 xMff: go for it :) Jul 23 13:01:07 later ;) Jul 23 13:01:32 also note there is a version history page under documentation, re: redundancy. we might just link Jul 23 13:04:36 danage: yes, viewing was possible, just not editing Jul 23 13:04:52 moonflux: either permissions problem or cause i edited it Jul 23 13:04:56 moonflux: you mss in wiki? Jul 23 13:05:09 danage: the latter, you were the editor Jul 23 13:05:11 danage: yes Jul 23 13:05:23 thanks for your version overview edit, quite nice Jul 23 13:05:36 thanks :) Jul 23 13:05:54 hope the crap I wrote is correct Jul 23 13:05:58 maybe we should link to it from the main page to address xMff's concern from above Jul 23 13:06:47 I linked it on start now Jul 23 13:07:35 I thought about adding a doc/latest page which always points to the latest packages, images, trac branch etc Jul 23 13:07:52 so only one place to edit when a new release comes out Jul 23 13:07:56 makes sense, yes Jul 23 13:08:21 moonflux: go for it :) Jul 23 13:08:27 kk Jul 23 13:08:55 ah, got to put it in the inbox I guess? Jul 23 13:09:37 i think i found out how categories and tags work, i'll play with it a bit Jul 23 13:10:07 moonflux: hang on i'll create it for you Jul 23 13:10:21 thx Jul 23 13:11:19 done. Jul 23 13:11:45 hope it doesn't lock it Jul 23 13:11:59 nope, you saved it, then the lock is released Jul 23 13:12:29 i think it's a good idea you are working on this page as you know how to prevent redundancy with version history Jul 23 13:27:27 done(ish) Jul 23 13:31:36 danage: what about enabling http://www.dokuwiki.org/config:useheading Jul 23 13:35:08 moonflux: I set it to "wiki content only" now Jul 23 13:35:55 xMff: I asked because of a nicer Jul 23 14:05:24 <danage> [florian]: are you gonna be there in like 3-4hrs? Jul 23 15:37:15 <[florian]> danage: not sure Jul 23 15:40:33 <danage> me neither a friend invited me to go to irish pub :) Jul 23 15:45:16 <danage> moonflux: http://demo.chimeric.de/plugin:tag Jul 23 15:45:19 <danage> we'll use it Jul 23 15:49:50 <danage> phaidros: ping Jul 23 15:50:53 <CIA-37> nbd * r16962 /trunk/include/site/ (linux-gnu linux-uclibc): add sitefile definitions for ac_cv_func_setgrent_void Jul 23 15:51:30 <danage> [florian]: you could just mail me the patch? Jul 23 15:55:53 <[florian]> danage: sure, I will mail it to you later Jul 23 16:10:24 <Bartman007> danage: pong. Jul 23 16:10:42 <danage> Bartman007: wow that was close, about to logoff Jul 23 16:10:54 <danage> was gonna ask you about the TOH progress Jul 23 16:11:26 <danage> people are already starting to put router descriptions into the inbox, so it's important we're getting this up soon Jul 23 16:11:30 <Bartman007> I have two examples on a local wiki that we can discuss during the meeting, will you be able to make it? Jul 23 16:11:40 <danage> when is it Jul 23 16:12:30 <Bartman007> 20:00 CEST I think. Jul 23 16:12:40 <danage> today? Jul 23 16:12:51 <xMff> yes Jul 23 16:13:19 <danage> ok i bette rhurry then, about to go running Jul 23 16:14:57 <danage> ok let me put that annoucement on the main page Jul 23 16:21:59 <danage> ok i put a couple of things in meeting agenda please extend if anyone has ideas Jul 23 17:56:34 <glp> Nuwiki meeting: Jul 23 17:57:08 <glp> I'll be a little on and off during the next hours Jul 23 17:57:31 <glp> meeting agenda is here: http://nuwiki.openwrt.org/meta/ircmeeting#nuwiki.irc.meeting.agenda Jul 23 18:00:00 <jaskew> I'm new - missed the first meeting but would like to help with the wiki effort Jul 23 18:00:54 <glp> jaskew: welcome, and welcome :-) Jul 23 18:01:31 <glp> First topic: DNS switch? Jul 23 18:01:35 <danage> jaskew: excellent, welcome Jul 23 18:01:45 <blogic> glp: \o/ Jul 23 18:01:50 <danage> glp: i'm interested in attendance, could we get a little ping from everyone attending? Jul 23 18:02:01 <blogic> i did not even know this was going on in this style Jul 23 18:02:02 <blogic> :) Jul 23 18:02:13 <danage> just so we get an estimate of the number of people that potentially participate Jul 23 18:02:18 <danage> (at this stage) Jul 23 18:02:37 * moonflux is here Jul 23 18:02:49 <jaskew> <--- Jerry Askew www.askew.net for more info about me Jul 23 18:02:57 * glp is here Jul 23 18:03:26 <plambrechtsen> Greetings Jul 23 18:03:50 <glp> plambrechtsen: just trying to estimate attendance for the meeting Jul 23 18:03:57 * Bartman007 is here Jul 23 18:04:06 * danage as well :) Jul 23 18:04:49 <glp> but back to first topic? Jul 23 18:05:09 <danage> sure, thanks Jul 23 18:05:30 <glp> should we just go ahead and switch the dns to wiki.openwrt.org ? Jul 23 18:05:36 <Bartman007> as nuwiki contains all the content of oldwiki, I think it makes sense Jul 23 18:05:37 <plambrechtsen> I think so Jul 23 18:05:49 <moonflux> wouldn't be worse than oldwiki :) Jul 23 18:05:49 <Bartman007> I find the oldwiki namespace in nuwiki to be more useful than oldwiki itself. Jul 23 18:05:49 <plambrechtsen> as the oldwiki has a subset as well Jul 23 18:06:01 <danage> i agree with Bartman007 Jul 23 18:06:08 <plambrechtsen> I agree to bartman Jul 23 18:06:14 <plambrechtsen> the TOH is missing from Oldwiki Jul 23 18:06:28 <Bartman007> it's still there, you just have to know how to get to it :) Jul 23 18:06:30 <danage> the only con would be that a lot of people (potential contributors) may be turned away once they find the wiki in this, uncomplete state Jul 23 18:06:36 <glp> ok, Bartman007 and I will remind eachother to fix the dns Jul 23 18:07:08 <Bartman007> danage: I think oldwiki does more damage than nuwiki could. Jul 23 18:07:14 <plambrechtsen> danage, I disagree, as I think the oldwiki is far worse than the nuwiki Jul 23 18:07:18 <glp> danage: maybe add a note about this to the startpage ? Jul 23 18:07:21 <plambrechtsen> barman007 i agree Jul 23 18:07:22 <Bartman007> oldwiki is completely static, and many links are broken Jul 23 18:07:33 <danage> true, true. my concerns are resolved :) Jul 23 18:07:55 <danage> glp: yes, or simply change the note that is there at the moment Jul 23 18:08:20 <jaskew> As a new user of openWRT, I founf the most discouraging thing was the inability to update/clarify things that I found that were either unclear or wrong. Jul 23 18:08:51 <plambrechtsen> jaskew.. couldn't agree more Jul 23 18:08:55 <jaskew> AHving the ability to submit updfates would encourage me. Jul 23 18:08:55 <danage> jaskew: yes, that will be no problem in nuwiki. all you need is to sign up, existing articles may be changed by everyone Jul 23 18:09:12 <plambrechtsen> people who are unfamiliar to openwrt try adn find info in the wiki.. and it's just not there Jul 23 18:09:23 <moonflux> I think each oldwiki page should have a box at the top pointing to guidelines on how to create pages in the new wiki/pages_from_oldwiki Jul 23 18:09:26 <danage> for _new_ articles the rule is they can only be put into the inbox namespace Jul 23 18:09:32 <blogic> what is the url ? Jul 23 18:09:37 <blogic> nuwiki.op..... ? Jul 23 18:09:48 <plambrechtsen> blog yep.. Jul 23 18:09:50 <blogic> apparently yes Jul 23 18:10:03 <Bartman007> moonflux: the oldwiki namespace in nuwiki should not be modified Jul 23 18:10:09 <blogic> glp: i think i should add a ifxmips section :) Jul 23 18:10:17 <blogic> glp: my contribution :) Jul 23 18:10:21 <moonflux> Bartman007: exactly, so when I see a page in oldwiki, I know what to do Jul 23 18:10:27 <glp> blogic: that would be very good Jul 23 18:10:31 <Bartman007> moonflux: ah. ok. Jul 23 18:10:47 <danage> Bartman007: that needs clarification. i have, following phaidros' explanation, begun moving pages from oldwiki to nuwiki namespace Jul 23 18:10:59 <moonflux> and when a page was moved to the new wiki space, the box could be changed pointing there (and the old content just stick around) Jul 23 18:11:15 <plambrechtsen> moonflux... absoultly Jul 23 18:11:18 <danage> blogic: do you think we should start a section under documentation that contains every platform? Jul 23 18:11:36 <danage> moonflux: what do you mean by box? Jul 23 18:11:51 <plambrechtsen> danage... for each oldwiki page a "header" should be added Jul 23 18:11:58 <danage> right now, when i move a page, access to the oldwiki page redirects you to nuwiki Jul 23 18:12:11 <plambrechtsen> saying "this is the old wiki, we are updating, to update this page go to /meta to find out then put it in /inbox Jul 23 18:12:12 <Bartman007> danage: oh, personally I don't see a problem w/ turning oldwiki namespace pages into redirects as the content is added to nuwiki, I thought moonflux initially wanted to provide advice on how to edit oldwiki Jul 23 18:12:21 <danage> i see. Jul 23 18:12:36 <danage> the thing is: if we leave oldwiki intact, without redirectors, it will STILL confuse people Jul 23 18:12:56 <danage> so as we revise the oldwiki content in the moving process, there is no need to keep the oldwiki content, is there? Jul 23 18:13:04 <Bartman007> agreed. Jul 23 18:13:07 <plambrechtsen> for sure... so the oldwiki namespace needs a time limit before it gets removed Jul 23 18:13:19 <glp> danage: there are historical reasons Jul 23 18:13:28 <blogic> danage: yes Jul 23 18:13:32 <blogic> danage: imperative Jul 23 18:13:49 <jaskew> an oldwiki page shouldn't be deleted until someone verifies that all appliacable info has been moved Jul 23 18:13:49 <moonflux> I thought about pages like the one of the SE505. I plan to completely revamp it, but the old White Russion stuff could stick in the oldwiki Jul 23 18:13:51 <blogic> there needs to be this devide arch/platform/device Jul 23 18:13:52 <danage> ok good, so the procedure is: move pages from oldwiki whenever we can Jul 23 18:14:00 * moonflux is a bit laggy because he's cooking ;) Jul 23 18:14:02 <danage> if it's crud, create a new page in nuwiki and put a redirector? Jul 23 18:14:36 <plambrechtsen> danage... I agree.. Jul 23 18:14:55 <plambrechtsen> I think we should all work together over 6 months say to move as much from oldwiki as we can Jul 23 18:14:58 <plambrechtsen> then retire it Jul 23 18:15:20 <jaskew> can "Janitors" be assigned to purge oldwiki pages once it's verified that the info has been ported? Jul 23 18:15:42 <plambrechtsen> that way, if there was anything such as the white russian stuff.. move it into the nuwiki under doc/whiterussian or similar Jul 23 18:15:46 <Bartman007> I see no real point to "retiring" it as a whole unless all content has been rewritten to fit into the proper place in nuwiki. Jul 23 18:16:07 <nbd> we should add an automatic header to all oldwiki pages that displays prominently and in red that the contents may be obsolete Jul 23 18:16:08 <plambrechtsen> it's just important that we don't keep the same data in two places Jul 23 18:16:14 <nbd> hi btw Jul 23 18:16:15 <nbd> ;) Jul 23 18:16:17 <Bartman007> and I don't think it makes sense to rewrite all content as some of it isn't relevant. Jul 23 18:16:30 <plambrechtsen> so when a page is updated / replace from oldwiki, we link to the new place Jul 23 18:16:32 <glp> plambrechtsen: the white russian stuff should probably not be added to the new wiki ? Jul 23 18:17:12 <plambrechtsen> just think it adds confusion having the same structure still "linkable" under oldwiki.. Jul 23 18:17:33 <plambrechtsen> so there needs to be a way that page by page we update oldwiwki to link to new wiki Jul 23 18:18:17 * plambrechtsen hates having duplicate data in wiki that just keep on getting referenced Jul 23 18:18:29 <nbd> if we consider all oldwiki pages obsolete until proven otherwise and marking it as such, we should at least get rid of some of the confusion Jul 23 18:19:02 <nbd> and we could place a note about that on each page as prominently as we have to, to make sure that users won't miss this piece of meta-information Jul 23 18:19:15 <plambrechtsen> then its just a decision as to if we want to keep historical info such as the white russian stuff or not. Jul 23 18:19:16 <danage> Bartman007: thats why we should MOVE as many pages as possible. that way we keep track of what's been moved already Jul 23 18:19:26 <jaskew> I suspect there are lots of external links to the wiki. Has there been discussion about preserving thise? Jul 23 18:19:31 <Bartman007> danage: I agree with you there. Jul 23 18:19:40 <moonflux> so White Russion info should just die? Jul 23 18:19:50 <danage> plambrechtsen: the way is to MOVE pages Jul 23 18:19:51 <Bartman007> jaskew: most of them were completely botched during the wiki -> oldwiki move Jul 23 18:19:56 <moonflux> jaskew: the old links are alreay redirected Jul 23 18:19:59 <plambrechtsen> danage... agree! Jul 23 18:20:19 <danage> however, many pages are obsolete. they don't get moved but ignored. so i agree with having a phase of a certain time after which oldwiki gets dumped Jul 23 18:21:00 <plambrechtsen> danage.. having a time limit on the oldwiki also means that we have that on the header Jul 23 18:21:32 <plambrechtsen> so if anyone links into it externally they will find that the first thing they get presented with is "this is a old page, please update, it's going on x date" Jul 23 18:22:52 <danage> here is a page as an example of what "moving" does: http://nuwiki.openwrt.org/oldwiki/basicenduser Jul 23 18:23:50 <danage> plambrechtsen: it could also be like "this is an old page, if it's helpful please suggest to move it to the new wiki [and how]" Jul 23 18:23:50 * plambrechtsen oldest daughter has just joined me to "help me"... it has begun Jul 23 18:24:10 * plambrechtsen totally agrees with danage Jul 23 18:24:12 <danage> :) Jul 23 18:24:53 <plambrechtsen> Danage... see the linkage.. that's exactly what should happen Jul 23 18:25:49 <plambrechtsen> then monthly or whatever we can dump out the oldwiki structure and see what is left Jul 23 18:25:58 <plambrechtsen> to migrate that is Jul 23 18:26:00 <danage> good idea Jul 23 18:26:25 <danage> jaskew: i think when we move pages the oldwiki links stay intact Jul 23 18:26:52 <danage> any developer opinion on what to do with white russian wiki documentation? Jul 23 18:27:03 <plambrechtsen> the only "gotcha" i could possibly think is a 5 second redirect delay when linking to a oldwiki page Jul 23 18:27:06 <Bartman007> cat whiterussian > /dev/null Jul 23 18:27:29 <plambrechtsen> ie "you just linked to an old page, are about to get redirected to the new page, please update your links" Jul 23 18:27:49 <glp> white russian should probably be wrapped into a tarball and stored somewhere Jul 23 18:28:10 <Bartman007> glp: it would be a reason to not completely nuke oldwiki Jul 23 18:28:26 <plambrechtsen> I think historical stuff should be kept in some form... Jul 23 18:28:38 <plambrechtsen> good to know history if someone for whatever reason wants it Jul 23 18:28:44 <jaskew> wayback machine? Jul 23 18:29:01 <plambrechtsen> link in newwiki to tarbal sitting on downloads Jul 23 18:29:08 <moonflux> jaskew: good idea I think Jul 23 18:29:14 <glp> plambrechtsen: something like that Jul 23 18:29:17 <plambrechtsen> then run stats to see how often its downloaded by non-robots in 12 months Jul 23 18:29:26 <plambrechtsen> then rm -Rf Jul 23 18:29:27 <moonflux> just replace the current CamelCase redirect with one to archive.org Jul 23 18:29:38 <glp> moonflux: yes Jul 23 18:30:07 <blogic> maligor: ping Jul 23 18:30:19 <jaskew> well... It would be good if there was a message that says the content was moved to <nuwiki link> but the original can be accessed at <archive.org link> Jul 23 18:30:22 <blogic> maligor: you made uboot work with the PSC ram chip, did you not ? Jul 23 18:30:35 <blogic> maligor: can you send me the patch against trunk again ? Jul 23 18:30:55 <maligor> mmm Jul 23 18:31:03 <maligor> let me look it up Jul 23 18:31:05 <blogic> on ifxmips Jul 23 18:31:07 <blogic> ok, thx Jul 23 18:31:21 <blogic> and you also added ./gcj ?! Jul 23 18:31:22 <jaskew> but also would be nice if the proper HTTP response code were sent so that webmasters could learn of the new address (is that even used anymore)? Jul 23 18:31:31 <maligor> gcj? Jul 23 18:31:52 <Bartman007> jaskew: you mean 302? Jul 23 18:31:53 <blogic> the tool to mkae the ascii file to upload to the boot-uart mode of the chip Jul 23 18:31:57 <phaidros> hello :) Jul 23 18:32:04 <Bartman007> quick , hide! Jul 23 18:32:08 <maligor> maybe it's in my sent ityms still Jul 23 18:32:16 <phaidros> Bartman007: I would, why? Jul 23 18:32:24 <jaskew> I think so - I seem to remember that there are tools that look for broken or updated links and then report them to webamsters Jul 23 18:32:42 <danage> i like the direction this is heading Jul 23 18:32:52 <danage> (the wiki, in general) Jul 23 18:32:55 <maligor> blogic, well, I can resend the email, I still seem to have it :P Jul 23 18:32:56 <Bartman007> jaskew: I'll add it to my todo list. Jul 23 18:33:00 <plambrechtsen> ok... so review Jul 23 18:33:09 <danage> should end up as a great tool for everyone Jul 23 18:33:12 <plambrechtsen> Dns NuWiki to be moved to wiki Jul 23 18:33:57 <maligor> blogic, the psc stuff is just the config for asc upload Jul 23 18:34:05 <danage> whiterussian oldwiki contents to be tarballed and NOT be part of nuwiki Jul 23 18:34:19 <plambrechtsen> Danage.. yes.. Jul 23 18:34:23 <danage> migration rule: try to move oldwiki pages whenever possible Jul 23 18:34:32 <plambrechtsen> So.. move onto point 2?? Tags / Categories? Jul 23 18:34:34 <danage> glp: still here? Jul 23 18:35:25 <danage> note: i put some more stuff in the meeting agenda just a few minutes ago that came to mind, sorry Jul 23 18:35:29 * plambrechtsen 2nd daughter has just woken up... Jul 23 18:35:45 <jaskew> WRT whiterussian: some people are probably still using. What if someone wants to contribute info or update a page. They shouldn't be tunred away - there shoulc be an area for that Jul 23 18:35:46 * plambrechtsen the day has begun.. Jul 23 18:36:17 <Bartman007> jaskew: they can continue using the WR forums Jul 23 18:36:39 <plambrechtsen> bartman.. i agree.. Forums are good for support & patches if applicable to WR.. Jul 23 18:37:00 <plambrechtsen> otherwise 8.09.1+ is all in wiki Jul 23 18:37:02 <jaskew> ok- that should be stated somewhere so ppl don;t submit whiterussion info just to have it turned down Jul 23 18:37:36 <plambrechtsen> There could just be a conjoined /doc/whiterussian page with the highlights Jul 23 18:38:07 <plambrechtsen> ok... hoping to move things on.. Jul 23 18:38:32 <Bartman007> point 2 on the agenda? Jul 23 18:38:39 <plambrechtsen> one request from me would be to have a http://downloads.openwrt.org/kamikaze/latest Jul 23 18:38:50 <plambrechtsen> so we can link to that in the wiki.. Jul 23 18:39:23 <moonflux> plambrechtsen: I added http://nuwiki.openwrt.org/doc/latest Jul 23 18:39:30 <moonflux> just always link to that Jul 23 18:39:53 <Bartman007> plambrechtsen: as a developer I hate the term "latest" because it is abused. "I'm running the latest trunk build." then I find out it was latest as of a month ago. Jul 23 18:40:25 <Bartman007> I think the latest page in nuwiki is sufficient. Jul 23 18:40:28 <plambrechtsen> Moonflux I was thinking that we should be able to link as part of having stable image downloads from the TOH ardware page Jul 23 18:40:44 <plambrechtsen> or perhaps /kamikaze/stable ;) Jul 23 18:41:00 <moonflux> plambrechtsen: just link to the wiki page, it has additional infos :) Jul 23 18:41:17 <plambrechtsen> sure.. point taken Jul 23 18:42:32 <plambrechtsen> was just trying to see if in a TOH page. ie linksys wrt directly link to http://downloads.openwrt.org/kamikaze/stable/brcm-2.4/openwrt-wrt54g-squashfs.bin Jul 23 18:42:45 <plambrechtsen> or something similar from the hardware model page itself Jul 23 18:42:54 <moonflux> ahk, now I know what you mean Jul 23 18:43:05 <plambrechtsen> so people don't have to guess they need to go to brcm-2.4 or whatever Jul 23 18:43:08 <moonflux> I think we should have an additional page which explains all the flavors Jul 23 18:43:12 <plambrechtsen> just "this is the latest stable" Jul 23 18:43:28 <xMmob> moonflux: agreed Jul 23 18:43:32 <Bartman007> plambrechtsen: I would prefer a page that explains which image someone should use, but not link directly to it. Jul 23 18:43:49 <plambrechtsen> http://nuwiki.openwrt.org/inbox/trialtemplate is what I was kinda talking about Jul 23 18:44:05 <plambrechtsen> "installation"... you need to download this image.. plus these tools Jul 23 18:44:13 <plambrechtsen> and have all the info on one page Jul 23 18:44:32 <plambrechtsen> latest is probably a dirty word... perhaps stable :P Jul 23 18:45:50 <danage> plambrechtsen: yes i agree. the particulars have to be worked out. i moved the installing page and the configuring page Jul 23 18:45:50 <moonflux> btw, ad. point 4: I think the Pagename-Plugin is crap ;) Jul 23 18:46:01 <moonflux> I just linked to [[latest]] and the sentence was broken Jul 23 18:46:14 <danage> what needs to be on which page? i don't know. probably we need some smaller pages that can be linked to Jul 23 18:46:39 <danage> moonflux: hang on, lets do this page by page Jul 23 18:46:45 <moonflux> kk Jul 23 18:46:50 <danage> moonflux: ehhh sorry, topic by topic, according to the agenda Jul 23 18:46:59 <plambrechtsen> sure if there is a [[latest] or [[stable]] then linkage is easy Jul 23 18:47:18 <moonflux> danage: jepp, just noticed it and didn't want to forget it Jul 23 18:47:30 <danage> moonflux: it's on the agenda :) Jul 23 18:47:38 <jaskew> for installation: can it include options for both the 2.4 and 2.6 kernel versions if available. Maybe I'm off base here, but the brcm-2.4 vs brcm47xx options were confusing to me at first Jul 23 18:48:01 <danage> jaskew: that touches a very important issue: which VERSIOn of openwrt should the wiki relate to? Jul 23 18:48:06 <plambrechtsen> Ok... sorry.. bring it back to the agenga... Jul 23 18:48:07 <danage> trunk? current stable? Jul 23 18:48:24 <plambrechtsen> danage I think current stable rather than trunk.. Jul 23 18:48:29 <Bartman007> danage: stable for the most part, with trunk where applicable. Jul 23 18:48:33 <plambrechtsen> I think I am going to need to go.. Jul 23 18:48:47 <plambrechtsen> kids chomping at my heels for breakfast. Jul 23 18:48:48 <Bartman007> if a device is only supported in trunk, discuss trunk on that page Jul 23 18:48:51 <danage> plambrechtsen: you're right, i'll put a point on the agenda. plambrechtsen, Bartman007 that's what i put in meta:start recently, under mantra, but was gonna put it up for discussion Jul 23 18:49:34 <plambrechtsen> so... #2... Tags / categories Jul 23 18:49:34 <danage> ok so i just put it as point 2 in meeting agenda so as not to confuse Jul 23 18:49:48 <danage> plambrechtsen: point 3 now... Jul 23 18:49:50 <plambrechtsen> :P Jul 23 18:50:01 <danage> ok so it's TAGS and CATEGORIES Jul 23 18:50:43 <plambrechtsen> I think we need a formal list of all features that all routers have Jul 23 18:50:46 <danage> i tried the plugin as described in dokuwiki documentation, xMmob but it didn't seem to work, cf page linked Jul 23 18:50:51 <plambrechtsen> ie Net4x1 Jul 23 18:50:58 <plambrechtsen> or Net100MB4x1 Jul 23 18:51:20 <danage> plambrechtsen: yes, that would apply to namespace TOH - categories are specific within each namespace, right? Jul 23 18:51:53 <plambrechtsen> and UsbHighSpeed or UsbLowSpeed Jul 23 18:52:05 <plambrechtsen> or CPUBroadcom Jul 23 18:52:14 <plambrechtsen> or ChipsetBroadcom Jul 23 18:52:34 <plambrechtsen> just need a single place all tags are put.. then it can be up for discussion if they are needed Jul 23 18:52:49 <danage> good point Jul 23 18:53:04 <danage> does anyone know how tags/categories work? phaidros? Jul 23 18:53:07 <plambrechtsen> toh:categories Jul 23 18:53:29 <plambrechtsen> how they work could be on the categories page :P Jul 23 18:53:41 <danage> plambrechtsen: meta:categories Jul 23 18:54:20 <glp> danage: yes, back again Jul 23 18:54:24 <plambrechtsen> ok... so I think we all agree we will need categories, and that the list of categoies will be up for discussion... so.. Jul 23 18:54:48 <plambrechtsen> why not say.. "someone" will do a shell categories on meta:categories.. we all add our 2 cents until next meeting? Jul 23 18:54:56 <CIA-37> mirko * r16963 /trunk/target/linux/s3c24xx/config-2.6.30: use ext2/ext3 compiled in to allow booting from an ext2/ext3 formatted sd-card Jul 23 18:56:44 <plambrechtsen> does that sound reasonable for the tags Jul 23 18:57:06 <plambrechtsen> I am happy to start a list.. but like danage I am not sure "how" they work ;) Jul 23 18:57:12 <danage> yes, but we need to know how they work first, or is it just me? Jul 23 18:57:22 <danage> phaidros seemed to know Jul 23 18:57:29 <jaskew> I was hoping someone would explain :) Jul 23 18:57:36 * plambrechtsen danage isn't alone with the voodoo for tags Jul 23 18:57:40 <glp> plambrechtsen: probably best to start with something and then change if needed Jul 23 18:58:05 <danage> http://www.dokuwiki.org/plugin:tag Jul 23 18:58:31 <danage> and here for a demo: http://demo.chimeric.de/plugin:tag Jul 23 18:59:03 <danage> i tried it on the page linked in the meeting agenda, but it displays some crud that doesn't link anywhere Jul 23 18:59:58 <jaskew> What about categories - are they just part of the namespace heirarchy? Jul 23 19:00:32 <plambrechtsen> I think they should be treated one in the same ... Jul 23 19:01:51 * plambrechtsen gotta go... #3 daughter has woken up... it's all over rover for me for the next hour Jul 23 19:02:25 <moonflux> hm. maybe the installed tag plugin is broken? Jul 23 19:04:09 <jaskew> hmm - the docuwiki docs seem to use "category" interchangeably with "tag" and "anmespace" Jul 23 19:06:39 * jaskew has to leave. Please let me know if there is anything specific I can help with Jul 23 19:07:18 <moonflux> so the category plugin was superseded my the tag plugin (which doesn't work in nuwiki) Jul 23 19:07:24 <glp> jaskew: there should be added a summary of this meeting one of the next days Jul 23 19:07:28 <danage> ok so this is up for research. nothing to be solved here at the moment... anyone object if we moved on? Jul 23 19:07:32 <moonflux> namespaces are the path elements (ie. doc is a namespace) Jul 23 19:07:44 <glp> danage: ok with me Jul 23 19:09:49 <danage> ok so it's table of hardware, topic #4, Bartman007 you had something relating to this? Jul 23 19:09:54 <Bartman007> yeah Jul 23 19:10:28 <Bartman007> I found two plugins that looked rather interesting Jul 23 19:10:46 <Bartman007> here are the results: http://openwrt.padded-cell.net/doku.php/playground:playground Jul 23 19:11:26 <Bartman007> the first one is rather basic, and I like it quite a bit. it is called sortablejs and allows sortable tables using standard wiki syntax Jul 23 19:12:29 <Bartman007> the second one is called database2 and actually stores the data in an sql database. it is much more powerful but I'm a bit concerned about it because changes to the table are not tracked in the page's revision history. Jul 23 19:13:36 <nbd> i think we should stick to the first one only Jul 23 19:14:18 <danage> if we go by the first solution, we would need a powerful but simple structure with links to router descriptions (in form of normal wiki pages) Jul 23 19:14:30 <moonflux> the db one doesn't always work. privoxy returns a text/plain sometimes when I try to sort Jul 23 19:15:00 <danage> i like the looks of the first one quite a bit Jul 23 19:15:28 <Bartman007> danage: in the status column, each on links to the device page, just like the old ToH. Jul 23 19:15:31 <glp> yeah, the first one and then maybe with a little less info Jul 23 19:15:33 <Bartman007> s/on/one/ Jul 23 19:15:58 <danage> yes and then a really good template for device pages so they get a uniform look Jul 23 19:16:17 <glp> not sure if we need; frequency, storage and/or version ? Jul 23 19:16:21 <nbd> another thing: I'd like to keep the WiP status only on those devices which actually work to some degree Jul 23 19:16:25 <moonflux> I think the link to the actual info should be moved to the front. I clicked the spec page a few times in the old ToC Jul 23 19:16:34 <nbd> basically anything that users can actually test without screwing up Jul 23 19:16:42 <Bartman007> glp: frequency is cpu speed, that's rather important for a number of people. Jul 23 19:16:46 <Bartman007> nbd: sure. Jul 23 19:16:52 <danage> Bartman007: i think clicking the model should bring you to the wikipage, not the mfg. page. linking to that could go in the wiki page for each device, not really necessary in the table? Jul 23 19:17:03 <Bartman007> yes, that makes sense. Jul 23 19:17:14 <nbd> so many people keep buying completely unsupported devices or doing stuff to them simply because they were listed as WiP Jul 23 19:17:35 <danage> yeah, like me! Jul 23 19:17:38 <nbd> while in fact many of the WiP-listed devices we've only considered doing work for but not done any work yet Jul 23 19:17:40 <moonflux> maybe two pages: one toh for the stable release and one for trunk? Jul 23 19:17:56 <Bartman007> I don't like taht option. Jul 23 19:18:06 <nbd> me neither Jul 23 19:18:07 <Bartman007> fragmenting the toh got us into trouble before Jul 23 19:18:13 <moonflux> kk Jul 23 19:18:15 <danage> me neither, TOH should apply for trunk shouldn't it? Jul 23 19:18:21 <nbd> at some point we will have an autogenerated ToH for developer-supported devices Jul 23 19:18:26 <Bartman007> someone decided "Unsupported" devices should be on their own page. Jul 23 19:18:37 <nbd> but that'll be generated from a much more extensive and strict source of information Jul 23 19:18:38 <Bartman007> which resulted in much confusion. Jul 23 19:19:08 <nbd> well, moving unsupported devices away might not be such a bad idea, actually Jul 23 19:19:17 <danage> we should decide for either stable or trunk, and then note that ont he page Jul 23 19:19:19 <nbd> but we have to do it with the new structure from the beginning Jul 23 19:19:22 <nbd> not as a rogue effort Jul 23 19:19:31 <nbd> if we decide to do it at all Jul 23 19:19:31 <moonflux> stable I think as a user Jul 23 19:19:43 <Bartman007> nbd: I think I'd prefer a seperate table on the same page. Jul 23 19:19:49 <nbd> fine with me as well Jul 23 19:19:56 <nbd> but splitting stable/trunk isn't such a good idea Jul 23 19:19:59 <Bartman007> so it can still be hit when searching on the page. Jul 23 19:20:03 <nbd> ack Jul 23 19:20:07 <Bartman007> agreed. Jul 23 19:20:23 <danage> +1 Jul 23 19:20:50 <danage> but should it relate to trunk/stable? Jul 23 19:20:52 <Bartman007> currently the status column indicates the first release the device was supported in, or trunk if it only works there. Jul 23 19:21:05 <moonflux> the release notes could carry a "stable" toc for each release Jul 23 19:21:19 <Bartman007> I don't see a need for that. Jul 23 19:21:47 <nbd> that's something for my hardware database idea later Jul 23 19:22:01 <nbd> i.e. only containing devices that developers have or had access to or know for sure will work Jul 23 19:22:14 <danage> Bartman007: sounds good Jul 23 19:23:17 <Bartman007> what about glp's comment regarding less info? Jul 23 19:23:48 <Bartman007> I already pruned serial, jtag, and recovery (boot_wait) from the table, and tried to include important specs. Jul 23 19:24:19 <glp> Bartman007: I'm thinking in the direction, that it can be quite confusing to have to look across to much info Jul 23 19:24:29 <Bartman007> cpu speed, ram, flash, number of eth ports, wireless, usb and/or other storage all seem to be frequently requested specs. Jul 23 19:25:02 <Bartman007> I suppose we could drop platform since target is there, but I would prefer not to, I think it is useful Jul 23 19:25:06 <glp> I think the Target(s) is really good Jul 23 19:25:27 <glp> platform is also quite relevant Jul 23 19:26:21 <Bartman007> I'm thinking we can break the wifi and eth columns up a bit more. potentially y/n columns for gigabit, 11n, 11g, 11a, # of radios and # of ports Jul 23 19:26:34 <Bartman007> would lend towards column based sorting being more useful. Jul 23 19:26:40 <glp> is it possible to fit the whole width of the TOH on a screen with 1280x1024 ? Jul 23 19:26:42 <Bartman007> but that's three new columns... Jul 23 19:27:28 <Bartman007> glp: currently it appears to be on my machine Jul 23 19:28:09 <Bartman007> I should probably move status and target into the first few columns, then the core info fits on smaller screens. Jul 23 19:28:38 <Bartman007> I don't necessarily see a problem with a wide table as long as the most important data is closest to the front. Jul 23 19:30:05 <Bartman007> danage, phaidros: I know one of you has admin access on the wiki. could you install the sortablejs plugin? Jul 23 19:30:56 <Bartman007> I'll import the later and rearrange columns, and create a discussion page so people can voice their opinions (as we appear to have lost most people already) Jul 23 19:31:03 <Bartman007> the table later* Jul 23 19:33:20 <danage> Bartman007: done Jul 23 19:34:43 <danage> Bartman007: you should be able to use it now Jul 23 19:35:57 <danage> ok so what else: the pagename plugin was deprecated consensually now? xMff could de-install it in that case, or i could Jul 23 19:36:17 <danage> then: next meeting, 6.1 Jul 23 19:36:27 <danage> 2 weeks from today? Jul 23 19:36:57 <danage> we can keep some of the undiscussed items for next wiki meeting, no problem, most important stuff has been covered Jul 23 19:41:54 <glp> danage: will you make the call for next meeting? Jul 23 19:42:17 <danage> can do, but someone else would have to post it to the mailing list Jul 23 19:43:05 <glp> danage: I can do the posting, if you tell me when the announcement in the wiki is ready Jul 23 19:43:57 <danage> ok we'll do it that way Jul 23 19:45:53 <glp> I'll sit down tomorrow morning and write a summary :) Jul 23 19:46:46 <danage> awesome Jul 23 20:17:28 <plambrech> greeting.. what did I miss? Jul 23 20:18:22 <plambrech> no one home anymore Jul 23 20:22:39 <plambrechtsen> Ok... thats better.. Jul 23 20:22:55 <plambrechtsen> So... is anyone still online.. or has everyone gone to bed? Jul 23 20:23:16 <[florian]> danage: ping ? Jul 23 20:24:03 <plambrechtsen> florian... is there an IRC log somewhere i could find? Jul 23 20:25:14 <[florian]> plambrechtsen: not yet sorry Jul 23 20:25:41 <plambrechtsen> florian.. np... I assume it's all over, with everything done? Jul 23 20:26:06 <[florian]> I can try to put you the backlog on a pastebin if you prefer? Jul 23 20:26:06 <Bartman007> plambrechtsen: sorry, we voted you off the island Jul 23 20:26:17 <[florian]> danage: http://openwrt.pastebin.com/m2832a3dd Jul 23 20:26:32 <plambrechtsen> bartman, dangnabbit... I hate it when the tribe turns against me.. Jul 23 20:27:33 <plambrechtsen> So Bartman... was everything covered.. Jul 23 20:28:22 <Bartman007> plambrechtsen: I'll past my logs in a sec. Jul 23 20:28:57 <plambrechtsen> np... just on bus so have 20 mins to do something before my real job kicks in and the real madness starts.. Jul 23 20:30:07 <jaskew> I'm back too - seems like it was mostly talk about the ToH since you (plambrechtsen) left Jul 23 20:31:11 <Bartman007> plambrechtsen: http://openwrt.pastebin.com/f2e36c9d4 Jul 23 20:32:12 <plambrechtsen> Thanks bartman... are you East cost US?... wondering what the TZ is Jul 23 20:32:31 <Bartman007> west cost, Pacfic Daylight Time Jul 23 20:32:52 * jaskew is on US West coast too Jul 23 20:33:21 <plambrechtsen> Groovy... I am on the other side of the water from you ;) Jul 23 20:33:23 <Bartman007> UTC-7 Jul 23 20:33:33 <plambrechtsen> GMT+12 for me ;) Jul 23 20:35:27 <jaskew> Bartman: Los Angeles, SF or other? Jul 23 20:35:38 <Bartman007> jaskew: 30ish miles south of SF Jul 23 20:35:59 * jaskew ~30mi N of L.A. Jul 23 20:36:09 <plambrechtsen> <argh> work calls ... bartman could you e-mail me my nick @ gmail dot com.. Jul 23 20:36:15 <plambrechtsen> and can continue that way... Jul 23 20:36:37 <Bartman007> plambrechtsen: you want the logs emailed? sure. Jul 23 20:36:48 <plambrechtsen> No.. I have the paste bin Jul 23 20:36:55 <plambrechtsen> just if I wanted to ping a few things by you Jul 23 20:37:00 <Bartman007> oh, sure. Jul 23 20:37:17 <plambrechtsen> so i have your e-mail so I can sign you up to spam :) Jul 23 20:38:05 <Bartman007> plambrechtsen: .nz isn't too large. I estimate it would take a 1/2 hour of door-to-door searching to figure out where you live. :P Jul 23 20:38:57 <plambrechtsen> Hey... to drive end-to-end of one island is about 12 hours Jul 23 20:39:05 <plambrechtsen> and about the same for the other one as well Jul 23 20:39:25 <plambrechtsen> 900KM for one island for you guys who should have heard of the metric system :P Jul 23 20:39:40 <plambrechtsen> long and skinny islands.. with rubbish roads Jul 23 20:40:06 <plambrechtsen> See ya... better boot this server before customers in NZ can't make phone calls... Jul 23 20:41:23 <jaskew> Did anyone clarify the tags vs. categories question? Jul 23 20:41:57 <Bartman007> jaskew: I think that was put off so people can figure out what question needs to be asked. Jul 23 20:43:44 <plambrechtsen1> jaskew... reading through the irc log it seems that tags were the way to go as categories were retired Jul 23 20:45:11 <jaskew> thx - makes sense Jul 23 20:45:57 <plambrechtsen1> Ok... Bartman if you want to update my trial template... Jul 23 20:46:09 <plambrechtsen1> one thing I would like to see the the TOH reference / include the sub hardwares Jul 23 20:46:16 <plambrechtsen1> ie TOH includes TOH:Linksys Jul 23 20:46:24 <plambrechtsen1> so you only update /toh/linksys with hardware lists Jul 23 20:46:41 <plambrechtsen1> and /toh/start is regenerated daily or whatever based on the hardware models & tags Jul 23 20:47:11 <plambrechtsen1> Need to get my head around the plugins on how tags and including other pages works in douwiki Jul 23 20:47:31 <plambrechtsen1> me = out!! e-mail me bartman Jul 23 21:07:26 <neomilium> Hey Kaloz, according to https://dev.openwrt.org/wiki/platforms you are porting OpenWrt on kirkwood Jul 23 21:08:37 <neomilium> How this port is mature ? Jul 23 21:27:16 <glp> neomilium: you could try and test how well it works, if you have a device ;-) Jul 23 21:27:52 <neomilium> glp: i haven't the device, that's why i ask ! :p Jul 23 21:28:37 <Bartman007> neomilium: I think he has it set to boot off of sd currently Jul 23 21:29:00 <Bartman007> I'd like a sheevaplug, but I have plenty of other gear that I should play with first Jul 23 21:29:04 <neomilium> Bartman007: Sounds good ! Jul 23 21:29:36 <neomilium> Bartman007: I see what do you live ^^ Jul 23 21:30:15 <Bartman007> I'm not sure what you're asking. Jul 23 21:31:31 <neomilium> Bartman007: I want ot know if it is stable, usable, or in heavy developement Jul 23 21:31:39 <neomilium> s/ot/to/ Jul 23 21:32:43 <Bartman007> I think it is usuable, but I'm not sure. You'll have to wait for his response Jul 23 21:34:30 <neomilium> Bartman007: btw, thanks for reply. Jul 23 21:59:32 <danage> [florian]: thanks, will try tomorrow. promising? Jul 23 22:02:31 <danage> Bartman007: is the plugin working for you? Jul 23 22:04:09 <Bartman007> danage: won't be working on the wiki until I get home Jul 23 22:04:31 <Bartman007> but I'll let you know, thanks. Jul 23 22:04:36 <danage> ok just checking whether it worked. let me know if you need anything else Jul 23 22:26:15 <AndyI> [florian] ping Jul 23 22:26:53 <AndyI> [florian]: https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?pid=91749#p91749 Jul 23 22:35:28 <blogic> win 20 Jul 24 00:31:03 <mankash> xMff are you there? Jul 24 00:33:12 <mankash> Bartman007 are you there Jul 24 00:34:54 <Bartman007> heh. just arrived. Jul 24 00:35:40 <mankash> need your help to help sweetpi Jul 24 00:35:57 <mankash> he is at the cfe prompt Jul 24 00:36:09 <mankash> how to unbrick the router Jul 24 00:36:56 <mankash> I remember you told once that one need to erase something from nvram **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jul 24 02:59:57 2009