**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 11 02:59:58 2016
Apr 11 03:37:35 <builder> build #263 of realview is complete: Failure [failed shell_7]  Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org:8010/builders/realview/builds/263
Apr 11 05:15:17 <builder> build #268 of ramips is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org:8010/builders/ramips/builds/268
Apr 11 05:25:59 <builder> build #224 of brcm63xx.smp is complete: Failure [failed shell_7]  Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org:8010/builders/brcm63xx.smp/builds/224
Apr 11 05:48:19 <builder> build #274 of brcm47xx is complete: Failure [failed shell_7 shell_18 compile_9]  Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org:8010/builders/brcm47xx/builds/274
Apr 11 05:57:40 <diizzy> Hmm...
Apr 11 05:57:58 <diizzy> Is there a reason why debug in musl is enabled by default?
Apr 11 06:09:59 <new_student> Hi! which toolchain should I be using to compile a C program for Broadcom BCMD144 chip rev 1  MIPS 74K V4.9 ?
Apr 11 06:30:29 <diizzy> bcm47xx
Apr 11 06:32:44 <new_student> diizzy: I am able to compile and run my C program using mipsel-openwrt-linux-uclibc-gcc
Apr 11 06:32:48 <new_student> But printf doesn't work
Apr 11 06:32:53 <new_student> which is kinda stange
Apr 11 06:33:00 <new_student> fopen() etc work nicely
Apr 11 06:33:50 <Alam_Squeeze> can you add `-Wall -W` and see if any warnings comes out?
Apr 11 06:34:20 <new_student> let me check
Apr 11 06:34:39 <new_student> no, no warning
Apr 11 06:34:51 <new_student> http://paste.fedoraproject.org/353742/35648714
Apr 11 06:34:54 <new_student> This is my C program
Apr 11 06:36:16 <Alam_Squeeze> did you flush stdout? fflush(stdout);
Apr 11 06:36:29 <new_student> I thought \n was enough. Let me try that
Apr 11 06:37:06 <new_student> okay, fflush also doesn't do anything
Apr 11 06:37:30 <new_student> http://fpaste.org/353747/56646146/
Apr 11 06:37:46 <Necrosporus> Does fprintf work?
Apr 11 06:38:10 <new_student> Yes, as you can see in the fpaste, it creates the file named 'a' and puts 'blah' in it
Apr 11 06:39:51 <Necrosporus> What if you use printf("%s\n", "some string"); instead?
Apr 11 06:40:17 <Necrosporus> If you want to print strings it's incorrect to use printf, there's puts for it
Apr 11 06:40:19 <new_student> let me try that
Apr 11 06:40:26 <Necrosporus> also try puts and write
Apr 11 06:44:29 <new_student> puts and write worked. from this program http://paste.fedoraproject.org/353752/60357060
Apr 11 06:44:41 <new_student> weird
Apr 11 06:49:38 <Necrosporus> new_student, what if you do fprintf to STDOUT?
Apr 11 06:49:48 <Necrosporus> instead of printf
Apr 11 06:49:56 <new_student> okay, let me try that
Apr 11 06:52:08 <new_student> Necrosporus: that works
Apr 11 06:52:35 <Necrosporus> so look at the libc source code and see what's wrong with printf
Apr 11 06:52:43 <Necrosporus> perhaps there's a bug in uClibc?
Apr 11 06:52:43 <new_student> haha :)
Apr 11 06:52:52 <Necrosporus> you can use a debugger
Apr 11 06:54:00 <new_student> It seems so, because I did -static and tried it with qemu-mipsel too
Apr 11 06:54:02 <new_student> same output
Apr 11 06:54:14 <diizzy> new_student: all new release will use musl instead of uclibc
Apr 11 06:54:24 <new_student> :-o
Apr 11 06:54:31 <new_student> but doesn't 15.05 use uclibc?
Apr 11 06:54:48 <diizzy> sorry, new release(s)
Apr 11 06:54:53 <diizzy> it does
Apr 11 06:55:01 <diizzy> but 15.05 isn't new ;)
Apr 11 06:55:05 <new_student> what's new?
Apr 11 06:55:10 <diizzy> 16+ will use musl
Apr 11 06:55:21 <Necrosporus> Designated Driver ofc
Apr 11 06:55:23 <new_student> I wanted openwrt to work on my E900
Apr 11 06:55:24 <new_student> :(
Apr 11 06:55:34 <diizzy> new_student: don't buy broadcom ;-p
Apr 11 06:55:37 <Necrosporus> You can pick trunk
Apr 11 06:55:54 <Necrosporus> diizzy, but didn't they become better last years?
Apr 11 06:56:12 <Necrosporus> They released brcm80211 for example
Apr 11 06:56:23 <Necrosporus> which is now brcmsmac or something
Apr 11 06:56:28 <Necrosporus> in mainline kernel
Apr 11 06:56:56 <new_student> Now, I have to use dd-wrt and copy libnl-tiny.so and wpa_supplicant from openwrt's downloads section and only then wpa_supplicant works :(
Apr 11 06:57:05 <Necrosporus> They also build processors for RPi's and they have opened up some code for video or didn't they?
Apr 11 06:57:27 <new_student> such pain.
Apr 11 06:57:35 <Necrosporus> new_student, try trunk?
Apr 11 06:57:39 <Necrosporus> it's based on musl
Apr 11 06:57:48 <new_student> wait, trunk has support for broadcom ?
Apr 11 06:58:09 <new_student> I mean, the specific shit that I am using
Apr 11 06:58:23 <new_student> 15.05 didn't detect the wireless driver
Apr 11 06:59:12 <diizzy> Necrosporus: well, broadcom works fine more or less except for wireless afaik
Apr 11 06:59:28 <new_student> yes, wired works. wireless doesnt
Apr 11 07:00:03 <new_student> I read somewhere that dd-wrt folks signed some NDA with broadcom folks to make the wireless work?
Apr 11 07:00:19 <diizzy> Sounds reasonable
Apr 11 07:01:37 <Necrosporus> What is that much secret in their radio stuff?
Apr 11 07:01:54 <Necrosporus> new_student, try it?
Apr 11 07:02:09 <Necrosporus> diizzy, but there are some free drivers
Apr 11 07:02:21 <Necrosporus> b47, brcmsmac and so on
Apr 11 07:02:23 <new_student> College implements the policy to enable 802.1x in entire campus, gives the task to set it up to a student sysadmin, then half of the campus goes crazy, since private routers stop working, and then they blame that student, and bring all their routers to him to 'fix' them to work with 802.1x . Goddamn. That guy is me :(
Apr 11 07:02:49 <Necrosporus> What's 801.1x?
Apr 11 07:02:55 <diizzy> Necrosporus: but they're broken and broadcom more or less released some code to make ppl shut up at the time (or that's my impression at least)
Apr 11 07:03:01 <new_student> Radius protocol
Apr 11 07:03:08 <new_student> EAPOL auth stuff
Apr 11 07:03:40 <new_student> dot1x
Apr 11 07:04:06 <new_student> port-based authenticatio
Apr 11 07:05:20 <new_student> diizzy: which network device do you recommend someone to buy?
Apr 11 07:05:28 <new_student> s/do/would
Apr 11 07:05:49 <new_student> I just use an RPi for now.
Apr 11 07:06:02 <new_student> With a USB WiFi adapte
Apr 11 07:07:54 <diizzy> new_student: https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/recommended_routers
Apr 11 07:08:33 <diizzy> mt7621 are a good bang for the back, AR9344 if you want something proven and stable (lower performance though)
Apr 11 07:09:38 <diizzy> you have a few others by zbt (check toh) although they need serial access
Apr 11 07:16:33 <Necrosporus> diizzy, wnr2200 is rather nice and cheap
Apr 11 07:16:40 <Necrosporus> under 20$
Apr 11 07:16:59 <Necrosporus> but 64m RAM and 16m (or 8m) ROM
Apr 11 07:20:02 <diizzy> but really old hardware :(
Apr 11 07:20:41 <diizzy> and EoL
Apr 11 07:50:46 <Necrosporus> diizzy, does it matter if you still could buy them?
Apr 11 07:50:55 <Necrosporus> And is ar7141 that old?
Apr 11 07:51:40 <Necrosporus> diizzy, about mt7621, I thought that mediatek/ralink do not have free firmwares
Apr 11 07:51:44 <Necrosporus> Only atheros does
Apr 11 07:56:58 <diizzy> Necrosporus: yes, that's a requirement for the list and tbh... old hardware doesn't get much love these days as far as drivers go in general
Apr 11 07:57:31 <diizzy> https://github.com/openwrt/mt76
Apr 11 08:04:17 <Necrosporus> does it require non-free fw or not?
Apr 11 08:13:35 <diizzy> Necrosporus: https://github.com/openwrt/mt76/tree/master/firmware
Apr 11 08:13:54 <diizzy> So no, it's not fully open
Apr 11 08:14:33 <Necrosporus> diizzy, which means that it should not be recommended, right?
Apr 11 08:14:53 <diizzy> Necrosporus: it's the best choice available for 11ac
Apr 11 08:15:14 <diizzy> and nbd is writing the driver
Apr 11 08:15:17 <Necrosporus> but why do you want 11ac if 11n works fine?
Apr 11 08:15:23 <Necrosporus> > No reverse engineering, decompilation, or disassembly of this software
Apr 11 08:15:23 <Necrosporus>   is permitted.
Apr 11 08:15:31 <Necrosporus> This is inherently wrong
Apr 11 08:15:47 <diizzy> hell, why would you want dvb/atsc when analogue works fine
Apr 11 08:16:02 <Necrosporus> If they license did not have this clause and permitted distributing modified versions then I wouldn't object much
Apr 11 08:16:13 <Necrosporus> dunno
Apr 11 08:16:20 <Necrosporus> I do not want dvb/atsc
Apr 11 08:16:20 <diizzy> I honestly you think you need to turn down the zealotry notch a few steps
Apr 11 08:16:27 <Necrosporus> I don't even know what it is
Apr 11 08:16:44 <diizzy> Necrosporus: that would be digital tv
Apr 11 08:16:56 <diizzy> vs analogue (cable or aerial)
Apr 11 08:17:18 <diizzy> or analgue modems vs dsl
Apr 11 08:18:00 <diizzy> 11ac is faster, it does have other advantages too but that's the main point ;-)
Apr 11 08:18:13 <diizzy> and 11n hardware is slowly going away
Apr 11 08:18:24 <Necrosporus> diizzy, if I were a zealot, I'd say that ralink should burn in hell for non-opening their sources. But I just say that if they distribute only binaries and only under proprietary license (if they distributed binaries under license permitting distributing modified versions and reversing it might have been OK) then they should not be recommended until they change their attitude toward Free Software community
Apr 11 08:19:18 <Necrosporus> Is it really zealotry?
Apr 11 08:19:43 <diizzy> Yes, because they have IPs and whatnot
Apr 11 08:19:52 <diizzy> and you have regulations
Apr 11 08:20:12 <diizzy> So unless you startup your own company that's not going to happen anytime soon
Apr 11 08:20:48 <diizzy> and it's better to support companies that try to be as cooperative as possible instead of going fu
Apr 11 08:22:20 <Necrosporus> Are they more cooperative than atheros?
Apr 11 08:22:31 <diizzy> yes
Apr 11 08:22:36 <Necrosporus> What's "IPs"?
Apr 11 08:22:39 <diizzy> and it's qualcomm atheros these days
Apr 11 08:22:53 <diizzy> intellectual property
Apr 11 08:24:15 <diizzy> Necrosporus: as far as wireless networking goes: Mediatek > Atheros/Marvell
Apr 11 08:24:17 <Necrosporus> not for zealotry, but it's a bogus term, meaning several completely different things http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html
Apr 11 08:24:32 <Necrosporus> diizzy, could you be more specific?
Apr 11 08:24:44 <Necrosporus> I mean what's wrong with Atheros?
Apr 11 08:24:58 <diizzy> Please look at the ath10k driver
Apr 11 08:24:58 <Necrosporus> How happens that they have free firmware while mtk does not?
Apr 11 08:25:13 <diizzy> it's binary blob
Apr 11 08:25:19 <Necrosporus> did they stop manufacturing devices working with ath9k or ath5k?
Apr 11 08:25:24 <diizzy> yes
Apr 11 08:25:43 <diizzy> or less and ath5k doesn't really work all that great
Apr 11 08:25:59 <diizzy> we also live in 2016
Apr 11 08:26:17 <Necrosporus> OK, ath5k is not perhaps great, but ath9k is
Apr 11 08:26:54 <Necrosporus> All my devices happen to work with 9k, so I can't really appreciate ath5k
Apr 11 08:27:09 <diizzy> Again, 11n is slowly fading away and technology is moving forward
Apr 11 08:27:36 <Necrosporus> Well, my provider only gives me 20mbits so even 11g is enough
Apr 11 08:27:39 <diizzy> and ppl want faster wifi than ~100mbit
Apr 11 08:27:47 <Necrosporus> and I do not share files between wi-fi devices
Apr 11 08:28:02 <diizzy> unfortunately your use case isn't applicable for everyone else
Apr 11 08:28:23 <Necrosporus> What do they use it for?
Apr 11 08:28:36 <Necrosporus> if hd video rt streaming works with 10m bits
Apr 11 08:28:41 <Necrosporus> why do you want more?
Apr 11 08:29:07 <diizzy> Geez, I wonder why you'd want that....
Apr 11 08:29:24 <Necrosporus> I have dreamed about higher internet speeds when it was like 16 kbit
Apr 11 08:29:45 <diizzy> Many devices doesn't even come with ethernet
Apr 11 08:29:52 <Necrosporus> but when I finally got 20 Mbits I'm not really sure if I would feel any difference if it was faster
Apr 11 08:30:08 <Necrosporus> They have usb usually
Apr 11 08:30:17 <diizzy> popular products like macbooks comes to mind
Apr 11 08:30:27 <Necrosporus> if you connect two usb devices you get usb0 network interface which is rather fast
Apr 11 08:31:03 <Necrosporus> at least it worked between my PC and pda
Apr 11 08:31:14 <diizzy> I think you need to look outside your little box
Apr 11 08:31:22 <Necrosporus> maybe
Apr 11 08:31:48 <Necrosporus> but what do they use that much bandwidth for?
Apr 11 08:32:10 <diizzy> transferring data....
Apr 11 08:32:16 <Necrosporus> And why not to wait until there are ac devices with free fw and then use them?
Apr 11 08:32:30 <Necrosporus> but keep using 11n until then
Apr 11 08:32:34 <diizzy> This is just a waste of time...
Apr 11 08:32:52 <Necrosporus> Well, I know they transfer data
Apr 11 08:33:05 <Necrosporus> but do they upload content of their entire HDD around?
Apr 11 08:33:31 <Necrosporus> every day
Apr 11 08:33:55 <Necrosporus> I am aware that high data rates are necessary for servers
Apr 11 08:34:11 <Necrosporus> perhaps home servers too, but why would they keep them on macbooks?
Apr 11 08:34:14 <diizzy> I mean come on, are you still using a Pentium first gen just because "it works"?
Apr 11 08:34:37 <Necrosporus> well, p1 doesn't work as well
Apr 11 08:34:50 <Necrosporus> it won't run modern browsers
Apr 11 08:34:57 <diizzy> lets say you do photo, raw files are huge
Apr 11 08:35:47 <diizzy> if you can shorten transfer time by ~75% you'd normally care
Apr 11 08:36:26 <Necrosporus> Why not to plug an SD card into the laptop directly?
Apr 11 08:36:43 <Necrosporus> I always do that when I want to pull photos
Apr 11 08:36:47 <diizzy> let's say your camera uses cf
Apr 11 08:36:56 <Necrosporus> OK, I have a CF reader too
Apr 11 08:36:58 <diizzy> which is quite common on higher end ones
Apr 11 08:37:08 <diizzy> so?
Apr 11 08:37:42 <diizzy> I think you need to understand that most want simplicity
Apr 11 08:38:05 <Necrosporus> What could be simpler than to plug the card directly and copy files with cp?
Apr 11 08:38:32 <diizzy> but fine, you have a card reader on your laptop and want to transfer or back it up
Apr 11 08:38:48 <diizzy> the media itself isn't important
Apr 11 08:39:14 <Necrosporus> configure backing up at night by cron?
Apr 11 08:39:24 <diizzy> fuck me...
Apr 11 08:39:56 <Necrosporus> I think that even if 11ac might be a bit better, it's not as significant as having free firmware
Apr 11 08:40:12 <diizzy> >_<
Apr 11 08:40:32 <diizzy> Necrosporus: feel free to start up your own company
Apr 11 08:40:41 <diizzy> it's not going to happen (most likely)
Apr 11 08:41:06 <Necrosporus> and won't mtk release the sources eventually?
Apr 11 08:42:18 <diizzy> I have my crystal ball packed in a box so I can't tell
Apr 11 08:45:04 <Necrosporus> OK, if MTK are currently most cooperative, but still not cooperative enough, perhaps you can recommend them but leave a not that their wi-fi requires proprietary firmware to function and point people to ath9k devices which do not?
Apr 11 08:45:16 <Necrosporus> * note
Apr 11 08:45:59 <Necrosporus> So people should be aware about firmware problems and that they won't have complete wireless freedom with mtk or any other currently available 11ac chip
Apr 11 08:46:15 <Necrosporus> So if they are concerned about this problem they could go with 11n
Apr 11 08:46:35 <Necrosporus> diizzy, btw, 11ac devices support 11n too, right?
Apr 11 08:46:50 <Necrosporus> Would mtk chips work in 11n mode without proprietary stuff?
Apr 11 08:49:21 <diizzy> all 11ac products are backwards compatible and still net firmware
Apr 11 08:52:43 <Necrosporus> So there are no 11ac devices working with free firmware at all, not even in 11n or 11g mode?
Apr 11 08:53:13 <Necrosporus> That's quite sad
Apr 11 08:56:42 <Necrosporus> https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/vendors/vendorsupport
Apr 11 08:56:58 <Necrosporus> btw I found a good page explaining some of problems you mentioned
Apr 11 09:00:39 <Necrosporus> https://github.com/kvalo/ath10k-firmware/blob/master/LICENSE.qca_firmware
Apr 11 09:00:47 <Necrosporus> Why do they use exactly same license?
Apr 11 09:25:45 <builder> build #272 of ramips.mt7621 is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org:8010/builders/ramips.mt7621/builds/272
Apr 11 09:35:23 <builder> build #216 of ramips.mt7620 is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org:8010/builders/ramips.mt7620/builds/216
Apr 11 09:36:18 <builder> build #268 of ramips.rt3883 is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org:8010/builders/ramips.rt3883/builds/268
Apr 11 09:51:31 <builder> build #210 of brcm47xx.mips74k is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org:8010/builders/brcm47xx.mips74k/builds/210
Apr 11 11:30:26 <builder> build #190 of mpc85xx is complete: Failure [failed shell_7]  Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org:8010/builders/mpc85xx/builds/190
Apr 11 11:37:42 <builder> build #230 of x86 is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org:8010/builders/x86/builds/230
Apr 11 13:42:52 <builder> build #216 of ar71xx is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org:8010/builders/ar71xx/builds/216
Apr 11 18:13:13 <builder> build #211 of ixp4xx is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org:8010/builders/ixp4xx/builds/211
Apr 11 19:28:21 <builder> build #198 of ath25 is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org:8010/builders/ath25/builds/198
Apr 11 19:40:22 <builder> build #204 of cns3xxx is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org:8010/builders/cns3xxx/builds/204
Apr 11 22:29:04 <builder> build #275 of brcm47xx is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org:8010/builders/brcm47xx/builds/275
Apr 11 23:14:24 <builder> build #262 of imx6 is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org:8010/builders/imx6/builds/262
Apr 12 02:51:42 <builder> build #232 of x86 is complete: Failure [failed]  Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org:8010/builders/x86/builds/232
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 12 02:59:58 2016