**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 17 03:00:00 2018 Nov 17 09:27:21 greearb: ping Nov 17 09:28:25 greearb: would a QCA9994 based module work in openwrt? I see list of firmwares go upto 99x0 only Nov 17 09:29:41 this module in particular: https://www.compex.com.sg/product/wle1216v5-20-i/ Nov 17 11:39:05 abenz, 9984 is supported, and 9994 is probably just a high-temp version of 9984 Nov 17 11:50:03 greearb: I see Nov 17 11:52:12 greearb: given your involvement, would you prefer a particular model over another? Nov 17 11:52:25 not 99xx, I mean all AC-class chips Nov 17 11:52:53 9984 is better than 9980 and older wave-1 stuff Nov 17 11:53:08 and compex NICs have worked well for me. I have not tried a high-temp versions Nov 17 11:54:10 high temp as in heavier duty heatsinks or different pcb? (I wonder if they are the same why a different sku) Nov 17 11:56:01 dunno, maybe you can compare the spec sheets to figure out what they advertise is different? Nov 17 11:59:32 ath10k_pci 0000:02:00.0: qca9984/qca9994 hw1.0 target 0x01000000 chip_id 0x00000000 sub 168c:cafe Nov 17 11:59:42 I can't spot any difference reading qca website Nov 17 11:59:52 but given the line above, I can be sure ath10k_pci supports it Nov 17 11:59:58 greearb: thanks for the info Nov 17 12:00:12 nod Nov 17 12:00:37 unless you are doing something in extreme environments, probably stick with the 9984 as they are likely quite a bit cheaper. Nov 17 12:01:28 they are about 20euros cheaper Nov 17 12:01:50 in the spec it says 9984 is targeted towards home routers, while 9994 is "enterprise APs" Nov 17 12:02:12 if thats marketing or there's substance to it remains to be seen Nov 17 12:02:27 marketing BS seems likely Nov 17 12:04:34 greearb: I recall you having a 4 port APU2, with the card above running at 5ghz, is it reasonable to expect 500mbps+ over wifi? Nov 17 12:05:13 apu4b4 + 9984/9994 that is Nov 17 12:07:02 apu4b4 will support exactly one wifi NIC, and the 9984 compex NIC worked in it. Nov 17 12:07:50 we see more like 300Mbps throughput on apu2, which has same processor as apu4, but we are using it differently than you would as an AP Nov 17 12:08:01 in general, apu2 seems pretty nice Nov 17 12:11:27 I intend to use it as a router with AP functionality, so more or less like your use case Nov 17 12:12:12 300mbps only? Nov 17 12:12:13 compex NIC is probably 5Ghz only, so you would only have that one freq available on apu4b4 Nov 17 12:12:55 I tried to get apu2 guys to fix apu2 for 9984, but so far no luck Nov 17 12:13:06 I usually stick an ath9k-htc usb dongle for legacy devices (which are old and slow anyway) Nov 17 12:13:10 * Borromini likes 'his' APU2 a lot Nov 17 12:13:10 fix it? Nov 17 12:13:20 i'm currently using my apu2c2 with a 9982 and that works pretty well Nov 17 12:13:27 2c4 even Nov 17 12:13:33 what kind of throughput do you get? Nov 17 12:13:43 up to 65 MB/s Nov 17 12:13:45 I was hoping with that setup I'd get past the 500mbps mark Nov 17 12:14:08 fix it to support the compex 9984 radio...it works on warm reboot, but not cold boot, so likely bios issue I think Nov 17 12:14:18 hexa-: thats MBytes? so about 500mbps+ Nov 17 12:14:29 greearb: I see Nov 17 12:14:37 greearb: issues about ac wave2 was mostly about power consumption, no? Nov 17 12:14:43 abenz: yes Nov 17 12:14:48 likely Nov 17 12:15:33 blurp … 9882, not 9982, my bad Nov 17 12:16:00 thats wave1 isn't it? Nov 17 12:16:03 * abenz checks Nov 17 12:16:04 yep Nov 17 12:16:25 compex wle600vx Nov 17 12:16:45 hexa-: anything special in your setup? a 9984 should surpass a 9882 in performance no? Nov 17 12:17:04 if you can make use of the additional streams Nov 17 12:17:28 I mean … mu-mimo won't be of much use in a single user environment Nov 17 12:17:30 do you have a single card in your apu (ie single band)? Nov 17 12:17:35 yep, 5ghz only Nov 17 12:18:27 pretty sure I could add another radio if I wanted to though Nov 17 12:19:05 the standard case only has two antenna holes though, so additional one would need to be made Nov 17 12:19:33 whats your connection speed? Nov 17 12:19:55 wifi? internet? Nov 17 12:20:00 internet Nov 17 12:20:04 only 50/10 Nov 17 12:20:26 I see Nov 17 12:20:57 Mbps that is Nov 17 12:21:25 how much did you set the transmit power on your 9882 ? Nov 17 12:21:59 17 dBm Nov 17 12:22:03 and hows the coverage? I see on some routers (eg archer c2600) you could go all the way to 1000mw (30dbm), but no card on compex website can do that Nov 17 12:22:10 with 3 dBm omni antennas Nov 17 12:22:14 so it seems embedded systems have different specs Nov 17 12:22:56 apparently the wle600vx can go up to 21 dBm, but I don't want to do the DFS dance if I don't have to Nov 17 12:23:04 the 'big' 9984 NICs can do 30dbm evidently, won't fit in apu2 though, and need external power Nov 17 12:23:55 greearb: which? from compex? Nov 17 12:23:58 https://www.compex.com.sg/wifi-module/ Nov 17 12:24:05 WLE1216V5-23 Nov 17 12:24:08 scroll to wave2 Nov 17 12:24:50 sorry, I guess it is 23dbm instead Nov 17 12:25:02 more than regulatory will let you do anyway probably Nov 17 12:25:37 up to 30 dBm in the ETSI region with dfs/tpc, so actually 27 dBm on linux :) Nov 17 12:27:19 uap-ac-mesh apparently can go up to 26 dBm, not sure if that's including antenna gain though Nov 17 12:29:13 how far away from ax are we actually? Nov 17 12:29:25 6 months? 12 months? Nov 17 12:31:38 some vendors rolled out ax routers Nov 17 12:32:08 yeah, with broadcom chips, not my kind of chip :p Nov 17 12:33:10 heh Nov 17 12:33:14 yeah world of hurt if you buy those. Nov 17 12:33:24 with use in openwrt at least Nov 17 12:34:46 https://wikidevi.com/wiki/List_of_802.11ax_Hardware Nov 17 13:23:35 greearb: It's the 9984 which is broken rather than the APU2 Nov 17 17:59:50 Monkeh, maybe, but it works in lots of places, so it is at least not fully broken Nov 17 18:09:58 greearb_: Try to forward one to a VM. Good luck with that, it won't respond to a reset. ;) Nov 18 01:39:33 so um, anyone have any anecdotes or horror stories abotu common "client" level hardware as AP? looking at things like mt7601 modules like https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MT7601un-high-power-band-IPEX-terminal-USB-interface-2-4G-intelligent-WiFi-network-module/32833333635.html and similar Nov 18 01:39:44 are there any total, "just don't get this!" chipsets? Nov 18 01:40:12 looking at things that are at least nominall supported like brcmfmac, mt76, Nov 18 01:42:42 karlp: my experience with aliexpress mediatek hardware has been bafd Nov 18 01:43:03 uncalibrated/broken EEPROMs Nov 18 01:43:43 I don't need much, just using it as an AP for "config" type things, Nov 18 01:43:46 are there better options? Nov 18 01:43:58 I don't have any particular mediatek allegiance Nov 18 01:44:13 willing to go usb? Nov 18 01:44:38 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-10PCS-AP6212-QFN-44-WIFI-CHIP-NEW-IN-STOCK-FREE-SHIPPING/32910278743.html is also completely viable, but requires sdio Nov 18 01:44:50 sure, I was choosing mt7601 because it was usb. Nov 18 01:45:16 but yes, a usb plug with antenna is pretty appealing too, very easy to make it "optional extra" Nov 18 01:45:29 just as long as I can do the "right thing" based on hotplug sort of thing, Nov 18 01:45:31 the mainline driver now has mt76x0 and x2 usb supporty Nov 18 01:45:35 *support Nov 18 01:46:19 hardest thing is finding a usb module that lists the chipset. Nov 18 01:46:39 I'm looking for at least smallish volumees Nov 18 01:46:42 not one-offs Nov 18 01:47:39 but yeah, a usb module like so https://www.aliexpress.com/item/tiny-plug-is-easy-sort-of-thing/32835136576.html Nov 18 01:47:43 would be fine, Nov 18 01:47:58 I'm more curious (from this channel) if there are any traps wrt AP mode. Nov 18 01:49:51 mediatek hardware has the maximum tx power set to 17dBm Nov 18 01:50:03 well, stock EEPROM anyway Nov 18 01:52:56 that's fine, like I said, I only want AP mode to offer a "config" interface for local people Nov 18 01:53:45 my _belief- has been that any generic client hardware should be fine for that level of AP, but I was curious if anyoine has any real horrostories of "no, you might think, but no..." Nov 18 01:54:44 I think it should be fine currently. Most of the driver stuff has been fixed like MFP Nov 18 01:54:50 my experiences with using USB devices as AP haven't been good, at all (ar9170 and ar9271) Nov 18 01:55:33 functional, yes, but not stable - sometimes kind of freezing up for a while, before continuing operations <-- but that was 24/7 operations Nov 18 01:56:15 ath9k_htc is...special Nov 18 01:57:42 ugh. the kernel cifs driver needs stability improvements Nov 18 01:58:14 well, for my needs, the repeater effect of using the same 2.4 GHz radio for the WDS/ 4addr uplink and AP interface is a price I pay gladly, for absolutely reliable operations Nov 18 01:59:16 pkgadd: ok, so,.... but is it the usb interface? I mean, there's plenty of sdio modules, but I'm not convinced (in my head) that it's "better" Nov 18 01:59:21 even if it's more pins Nov 18 01:59:33 no it's the firmware Nov 18 01:59:49 karlp: it's the firmware combined with the USB devices getting pretty hot Nov 18 02:00:03 very, very limited on-device RAM Nov 18 02:00:16 right so, say I'm building a new device today, is there a _better_ device that an mt7601 usb module? Nov 18 02:00:28 my favorite memory of ar9271 is how it would make capacitor noise on injection Nov 18 02:00:32 my feeeling is that sdio based devices might be more reliable in general Nov 18 02:00:39 pkgadd: limited on device ram means nothing to me, like I said, I'm not planning on an "access poitn" product Nov 18 02:00:49 just a product that offers an AP for ~single user config Nov 18 02:00:50 although my only reference point is a pretty sub-par rtl8187bs Nov 18 02:01:07 err, rtl8723bs Nov 18 02:01:17 I have a hard time understanding how/why sdio could be "more reliabel" than usb, that's all :) Nov 18 02:02:10 also, why weechat picked the same colour of purple for both pkgadd and mangix is beyond me :) Nov 18 02:02:26 as said, firmware and drivers Nov 18 02:02:36 sorry, I didn't pick the colours ;) Nov 18 02:02:43 no I know, not your fault :) Nov 18 02:03:18 * mangix uses irssi Nov 18 02:03:21 what other options are available? in modules? I can find ap6212, mt7601, which I know will work, Nov 18 02:03:33 vendors just think STA, when designing USB devices (and firmwares!), not really looking into AP specifics Nov 18 02:03:39 then there's all the crazy shit like wild realtreak parts, random stuff Nov 18 02:03:55 are there any other chipsets I can search for for usb/sdio modules? Nov 18 02:04:10 the brcmfullmac ap6212/ sdio based cards shouldn't be too bad Nov 18 02:04:49 yeah, they're my fallback, butit's sdio, plus another uart for bluetooth Nov 18 02:05:08 usb is "yay power plus d+/d-, wheeee" Nov 18 02:07:22 usb is a special kind of hell Nov 18 02:07:30 well, usb 3 Nov 18 02:07:52 yeah, well, not that. :) Nov 18 02:08:10 I love usb, everyone likes hating on it, but they seem to often forget how it was before :) Nov 18 02:08:17 sure, usb3 is away more headaches Nov 18 02:08:22 mvebu and ramips both have massive issues with usb3 Nov 18 02:08:35 massive meaning devices not working Nov 18 02:08:40 but sdio vs usb? fuck yeah, usb! plz can I haz less wires?! Nov 18 02:10:01 until you expect it to work, always, on the first try ;) Nov 18 02:10:23 can't hate usb because some devices suck :D Nov 18 02:10:34 pci-e tho, its da bes Nov 18 02:11:04 jwh: I haven't really seen any USB based wlan card that works 100% reliable, STA is already bad enough, but AP mode... no, hell no! Nov 18 02:11:13 haha yeah thats just crazy Nov 18 02:11:19 although.... usb mini pcie Nov 18 02:11:30 thats a thing Nov 18 02:11:56 the last time I bought a wireless card it was cardbus though, so what do I know Nov 18 02:12:11 hmmm, ath3k maybe Nov 18 02:12:23 uh Nov 18 02:12:24 5k Nov 18 02:13:12 https://www.netgear.com/support/product/WG511T.aspx Nov 18 02:13:14 theres the baby Nov 18 02:13:30 among those tested, rtl8187b, ar9170, ar9271, rt2570, rt73, SiS163u (surprisingly good, but no linux drivers at all), at76c503a, rt2870, rt3570, zd1211rw, ar5523, rtl8188s, rtl8192s, rtl8192du, ... Nov 18 02:14:13 heh, I have the same cardbus card on a drawer next to me ;) Nov 18 02:15:02 heh Nov 18 02:15:10 I think that was an early pentium 3 laptop too Nov 18 02:19:49 pkgadd: so, really, your position is "sdio: works, usb: doesn't" ? just so I knwo what you're saying Nov 18 02:20:06 because that seem so.... wat? I mean, for the same radio chipsets. Nov 18 02:21:21 karlp: I'm saying that USB cards and their drivers/ firmwares aren't made and tested for AP mode and come in varying degrees of horror Nov 18 02:21:43 sdio based ones tend to be more solid in those regards, brcmfmac in particular Nov 18 02:22:21 because they are used in android devices, where hotspot mode is expected to work Nov 18 02:22:49 and then there are also highend routers using brcmfmac, like https://openwrt.org/toh/netgear/r8000 (PCIe based cards, but the same driver) Nov 18 02:27:50 * abenz hexa- hi Nov 18 02:28:42 * abenz hexa- we had a discussion about wireless modules, I just wanted to ask do you do heavy transfers within LAN (eg streaming etc) consistently? I've had many routers unable to keep up with traffic Nov 18 02:30:55 * jwh hello Nov 18 02:31:25 * abenz didn't have enough coffee Nov 18 02:32:05 apologies wanted to ask hexa to do some throughput tests and it went to main channel Nov 18 02:32:36 msg became me :/ Nov 18 02:32:39 :D Nov 18 02:41:46 pkgadd: thanks for your input. brcmfmac were devices I was looking at, Nov 18 02:42:31 I was kinda just hoping/wondering if I could get something similar on usb instead of sdio, because, at least in my mind, "same same, just let wires" Nov 18 02:43:31 ap6212 vs mt7601 is $3.5 vs $2, so ~smae same.... Nov 18 02:46:52 it really makes a difference if the vendor is on the line for getting AP mode tested and fixed (by the cell phone vendors who buy them in 6-figure batches and upwards) Nov 18 02:48:25 after all you can't fix hardware or firmware yourself Nov 18 02:53:41 Yeah, so, frtom where I'm standing the vendor is _never_ going to be on call, so I'm looking for "works ok" vs "looks like it shoujld work ok, but actually doens't" Nov 18 02:54:04 I don't need awesome, I just need "ok" Nov 18 02:55:12 so, allwinner xr819 is out, espressif is out, (unless I missed a lot of development) RDA is out, most realtek is out, Nov 18 02:56:16 xr819 oh my, from all I've read... hell, no Nov 18 02:57:22 yeah, indeed :) Nov 18 02:57:39 was putting that at as an example of what I _wasn-t_ buying Nov 18 02:57:50 non-mainline wireless driver should be out of the questions by definition Nov 18 02:58:18 right, so what does that _really- leae me with? Nov 18 02:58:37 brcmfmac is mainline Nov 18 02:58:50 what are viable options for modules/chipsets for ~pseudoemailne? brcmfmac, mt76, xxxx? Nov 18 02:59:04 what else should I even be looking for? Nov 18 02:59:25 contemporary, non-pcie, you're pretty much down to those, yes **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 18 02:59:59 2018