**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 08 02:59:57 2008
Oct 08 03:10:13 * ljp tries a prototype
Oct 08 03:13:50 <chouimat|Zzzz> ljp: http://consumerist.com/5059758/the-economist-sums-up-financial-crisis-oh-fuck
Oct 08 03:15:05 <mwester> ljp:  If you are interested in the patch I'm currently using, it's here: http://moko.mwester.net/download/brc_qt_extended_quickfix_v1.patch     (for what it's worth)
Oct 08 03:31:47 <ljp> this prototype (#41) is a Moko6
Oct 08 03:32:46 <mwester> So between us we have a 6, 7, and an 8 -- and not a one in common to test with.
Oct 08 03:33:28 <ljp> :) wonderful hey
Oct 08 03:34:21 <ljp> ahh but this has the bouncy calypso!
Oct 08 20:00:31 <bedboi> hi there
Oct 08 20:01:19 <bedboi> anyone knows which kernel i should use with qtopia 4.3.2 for the neo 1973?
Oct 08 20:04:25 <wurp2|working> whichever one I'm using
Oct 08 20:04:32 <wurp2|working> bedboi: Why not qtext?
Oct 08 20:04:40 <bedboi> qtext
Oct 08 20:04:56 <bedboi> http://qtextended.org/modules/devices/openmoko.php
Oct 08 20:05:02 <bedboi> i flashed that
Oct 08 20:05:08 <bedboi> with the latest kernel
Oct 08 20:05:26 <bedboi> it stucks booting
Oct 08 20:05:33 <bedboi> Starting Kernel...
Oct 08 20:06:01 <bedboi> kernel version is 2.6.24
Oct 08 20:08:23 <wurp2|working> uImage-gta01-mwester-stable-d6f9fd270943fb22.bin
Oct 08 20:08:29 <wurp2|working> That's what I'm using with 4.3.2
Oct 08 20:09:47 <bedboi> wurp2|working: url?
Oct 08 20:09:56 <bedboi> wurp2|working: on neo 1973?
Oct 08 20:10:28 <wurp2|working> bedboi: Dunno the URL
Oct 08 20:10:31 <wurp2|working> It is on 1973
Oct 08 20:10:43 <wurp2|working> I can email you the file if you PM me your email addy
Oct 08 20:11:02 <wurp2|working> hrm, or I can just throw it on my server
Oct 08 20:11:02 <wurp2|working> sec
Oct 08 20:11:56 <bedboi> k
Oct 08 20:12:00 <bedboi> thansk
Oct 08 20:12:01 <bedboi> thanks
Oct 08 20:12:28 <Gnutoo> hello, how do i launch the dialer over X11,i've the ASU from openmoko...
Oct 08 20:18:46 <wurp2|working> bedboi: Look for it in http://static.frimp.net/neo
Oct 08 20:20:12 <bedboi> thanks man
Oct 08 20:21:31 <wurp2|working> np
Oct 08 20:21:47 <wurp2|working> If you try qtext, lemme know how it goes
Oct 08 20:21:48 <wurp2|working> plz
Oct 08 20:30:07 <bedboi> yep, i have to reflash
Oct 08 20:44:46 <bedboi> damn: dfu_download error -84 Error during download
Oct 08 20:46:31 <malik1972> lpotter: ping
Oct 08 21:06:06 <bedboi> wurp2|working: it's not working. Kernel panic when mounting the  file system
Oct 08 21:07:20 <wurp2|working> bedboi: I'm sure you know how to burn a kernel with dfu-util, and you're sure you did that right...
Oct 08 21:07:47 <wurp2|working> What do you get if you run file on the .bin image?
Oct 08 21:07:54 <wurp2|working> 'cause I'm sure it works on mine
Oct 08 21:08:12 <wurp2|working> So I'm wondering if the file got fubared somewhere on the way to your neo
Oct 08 21:09:09 <bedboi>  u-boot/PPCBoot image
Oct 08 21:09:13 <wurp2|working> Same for me
Oct 08 21:09:15 <bedboi> i don't think that's the problem
Oct 08 21:09:25 <bedboi> let me try to re-erase the nand
Oct 08 21:09:27 <wurp2|working> And I get the same file sizes on both boxese
Oct 08 21:09:45 <wurp2|working> You shouldn't need to erase the nand unless you have a very old uboot
Oct 08 21:10:03 <bedboi> i do have a very old uboot
Oct 08 21:10:06 <wurp2|working> :-(
Oct 08 21:10:31 <wurp2|working> It's possible there are incompatibilities... I thought there was a bug at one point that required a uboot update
Oct 08 21:11:04 <bedboi> ok
Oct 08 21:11:07 <wurp2|working> Of course, I would confirm that you can burn the old kernel to your neo and it works before burning a new uboot
Oct 08 21:11:21 <wurp2|working> 'cause if it's some weird noise on your usb or something, you could brick it
Oct 08 21:14:29 <FilipLinux4BE> bedboi: can't you try to  put it on a SD card instead of internal flash ?
Oct 08 21:14:37 <bedboi> wurp2|working: i'm using qtextended-4.4.1-gta02-rootfs-release-10022309.jffs2
Oct 08 21:14:53 <bedboi> FilipLinux4BE: yep i can do that
Oct 08 21:15:05 <FilipLinux4BE> is easier to torubleshoot: you can put it into a PC and mount it to check if filesystem is ok and looks sane
Oct 08 21:15:09 <bedboi> actually i never donethat
Oct 08 21:16:10 <FilipLinux4BE> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_FreeRunner#Option_2:_Dual-Booting_between_Qtopia_and_2007.2_.28Qtopia_boots_from_MicroSD_card.29
Oct 08 21:17:31 <bedboi> btw i guess it will be quite simple
Oct 08 21:17:50 <wurp2|working> bedboi: I haven't tried qtextended with what I sent you
Oct 08 21:18:02 <wurp2|working> But I wouldn't expect a kernel panic due to using a mismatched rootfs
Oct 08 21:19:02 <FilipLinux4BE> wurp2|working: unless the rootfs i susing an fstype which is not in the kernel
Oct 08 21:19:26 <wurp2|working> FilipLinux4BE: ah, I didn't know that would cause kernel panic
Oct 08 21:19:38 <wurp2|working> but jffs2 should definitely be supported by the kernel :-)
Oct 08 21:21:12 <FilipLinux4BE> I've seen this kind of error when by mistake all FS drivers where compiled as modules
Oct 08 21:21:48 <FilipLinux4BE> but indeed, jffs2 should be in kernel
Oct 08 21:32:37 <wurp2|working> that's awesome - all FS drivers compiled as modules
Oct 08 22:18:14 <emacsen> I just got some QT spam
Oct 08 22:20:27 <emacsen> I think it was about making my penis larger
Oct 08 22:20:32 <emacsen> "Qt Extended"
Oct 08 22:22:07 <wurp2|working> bedboi: any update on your kernel problems?
Oct 08 22:22:18 <bedboi> nope
Oct 08 22:25:11 <ljp> remember, its pronounced. 'cutie extended' :)
Oct 08 22:29:38 <BabelO> yeah !!!
Oct 08 22:29:52 <BabelO> cute is good :)
Oct 08 22:35:49 <ljp> BabelO: is htc-linux guys planing on hacking a g1?
Oct 08 22:36:07 <ljp> i would love to see qtextended on one :)
Oct 08 22:36:42 <BabelO> ljp: lol, i can get one but only on april, not sold before in france :(
Oct 08 22:37:20 <BabelO> ljp: qt extented works well on blueangel and artemis, that is ok :)
Oct 08 22:40:06 <BabelO> ljp: maybe some uk guys get one soon :) do you see it in your country ?
Oct 08 22:41:24 <BabelO> ljp: and google guy say that they release android source on end of october something like that
Oct 08 22:41:51 <BabelO> ljp: hi hope not everyone start to use android instead of qt extented :(
Oct 08 22:52:08 <BabelO> ljp: tomorrow i ll ask you why keyboard appear center of the screen on my blueangel and artermis with 240x320 ?
Oct 08 22:52:12 <BabelO> good night :)
Oct 08 23:25:09 <abram> hello
Oct 08 23:25:19 <abram> any qt extended developers online?..
Oct 08 23:26:07 <abram> ljp, be sure, I will not use Android :) Java-based framework can't be better than C++ one ;)
Oct 08 23:26:50 <emacsen> how so?
Oct 08 23:27:23 <abram> emacsen, emm... what?..
Oct 08 23:27:41 <emacsen> why is a C++ library inherintly better than Java?
Oct 08 23:28:10 <abram> emacsen, C++ compiles into native code. so it's times faster than Java
Oct 08 23:28:41 <emacsen> eh, not really
Oct 08 23:28:51 <emacsen> a well tuned JVM can be pretty darn fast
Oct 08 23:29:18 <abram> I know that Java compiles into bytecode and some processors can translate it transparently
Oct 08 23:30:25 <rohanpm> Java can be compiled into native code also
Oct 08 23:30:33 <abram> but Android lagged even on my P4 2.8 GHz. I know that devices are optimized, but...
Oct 08 23:30:47 <abram> rohanpm, anyway, qt extended is better :-P
Oct 08 23:30:57 <rohanpm> I'm glad you think so
Oct 08 23:31:30 <abram> rohanpm, anyway, Android hasn't so good API and lot off software like Qt
Oct 08 23:31:34 <abram> *of
Oct 08 23:32:02 <emacsen> their API seems to have more functionality, honestly
Oct 08 23:32:19 <abram> rohanpm, 18bpp support patch is almost ready. can we have so more support?
Oct 08 23:32:30 <abram> emacsen, don't trust them
Oct 08 23:32:40 <emacsen> don't trust what?
Oct 08 23:32:45 <abram> emacsen, their API had already changed 3 times
Oct 08 23:33:03 <emacsen> how does that change what I said?
Oct 08 23:33:21 <abram> emacsen, are you developer?
Oct 08 23:33:33 <emacsen> I've developed software, not a developer full time
Oct 08 23:33:45 <emacsen> so, the API changes... it's pre 1
Oct 08 23:34:08 <rohanpm> emacsen: I'm curious to know, I haven't really looked at it.  what more functionality does it provide?
Oct 08 23:34:11 <abram> emacsen, do you like to re-write your software each time when API changes? :)
Oct 08 23:34:27 <emacsen> they should offer backward compatibility at some point
Oct 08 23:34:29 <rohanpm> abram: what do you need specifically?
Oct 08 23:34:37 <emacsen> they do things like mapping APIs
Oct 08 23:34:42 <emacsen> stuff we could do, and better
Oct 08 23:34:47 <emacsen> but right now don't exist
Oct 08 23:35:12 <abram> rohanpm, It's almost ready, but there're still some issues with transparency and optimization. I want to know, will you try to improve/optimize it in some way?
Oct 08 23:35:31 <ljp> java isnt good, as it has twice as many letters in it than Qt
Oct 08 23:35:49 <emacsen> ljp, but Java is Enlarged
Oct 08 23:35:51 <abram> ljp, thanks for support in Qt/Java flame xD
Oct 08 23:35:58 <ljp> hehhe
Oct 08 23:36:06 <ljp> i love a good flame
Oct 08 23:36:11 <abram> hehe
Oct 08 23:36:14 <emacsen> not just lengthened but also more girth
Oct 08 23:36:41 <emacsen> I'm not anti-Qt, but here's the thing about Java, as I see it
Oct 08 23:36:48 <emacsen> and especially Android
Oct 08 23:36:55 <emacsen> they're going to have other languages on it
Oct 08 23:36:56 <abram> emacsen, I've worked with Java project one time. I just hate paths like /com/net/some/other/shit/and/then/just/only/java/file
Oct 08 23:37:01 <emacsen> Python, Ruby, etc.
Oct 08 23:37:11 <emacsen> and no one will care
Oct 08 23:37:17 <emacsen> they'll just have nice software
Oct 08 23:37:25 <emacsen> people really care about bindings and making things easy to do
Oct 08 23:37:31 <abram> emacsen, they used Java just because it's easier to write
Oct 08 23:37:41 <abram> emacsen, and cheaper
Oct 08 23:37:48 <emacsen> abram, and it takes care of a lot of junk for you, like pointers and garbage collection
Oct 08 23:37:58 <abram> emacsen, yeap
Oct 08 23:37:58 <emacsen> so, what's the problem?
Oct 08 23:38:04 <rohanpm> abram: 4.4.2 will already contain a patch which falls back to Qt when the bpp is not one of those accelerated by qtopiagfx
Oct 08 23:38:10 <abram> emacsen, it's slow. it's damn slow
Oct 08 23:38:14 <rohanpm> abram: I assume your patch would be more efficient than that?
Oct 08 23:38:23 <abram> rohanpm, of course, yes
Oct 08 23:38:38 <abram> rohanpm, i can show you a screenshot of a current state on a 18bpp device
Oct 08 23:38:59 <emacsen> abram we already discussed the speed issue earlier
Oct 08 23:39:01 <abram> rohanpm, actually, that's not mine patch, but one guy makes it for device I use
Oct 08 23:39:06 <rohanpm> OK
Oct 08 23:39:28 <rohanpm> Given the complete lack of support for 18bpp in the first place, I assume the guys working on it here don't have a device which uses that
Oct 08 23:39:41 <rohanpm> So I can't guarantee they would try to optimize it further
Oct 08 23:40:13 <abram> rohanpm, http://laptop.muromec.org.ua:8081/files/wrong3.png
Oct 08 23:40:32 <abram> rohanpm, Motorola A1200/E6. They are cheap and they runs Qtopia quite well
Oct 08 23:41:43 <abram> rohanpm, as you can see on a screenshot, there're still issues with transparency (scrollbar)
Oct 08 23:42:46 <abram> rohanpm, can we ask some more complex support in future? I mean not everything's documented well; and some stuff in code's not clear
Oct 08 23:43:25 <rohanpm> Do you have a support contract with Qt Software?
Oct 08 23:43:34 <abram> rohanpm, of course no
Oct 08 23:43:40 <rohanpm> Why "of course"?
Oct 08 23:43:43 <rohanpm> That's what it's there for
Oct 08 23:44:14 <abram> we're not developing any commercial device; it's community opensource project
Oct 08 23:44:55 <abram> rohanpm, for that reason, we can't buy support, but we can help you improve qt extended with patches and apps
Oct 08 23:45:31 <abram> rohanpm, and it looks naturally to ask developers about some stuff if we're going to help
Oct 08 23:45:42 <rohanpm> Yes
Oct 08 23:46:07 <abram> we do it just for our fun
Oct 08 23:46:09 <rohanpm> Of course you can ask, but when the Trolls in here don't know the answer, you might be out of luck
Oct 08 23:46:18 <abram> :(
Oct 08 23:46:19 <rohanpm> It's up to each individual developer to decide how much to support the community
Oct 08 23:46:29 <abram> hmm... ok
Oct 08 23:47:34 <abram> rohanpm, BTW, how about qbuild on reiserfs? I've tried it on ext3, reiserfs on loop device and tmpfs. everything's working except of reiserfs on REAL device
Oct 08 23:48:20 <abram> it also seems not working if sources are on reiserfs and build dir is on ext3
Oct 08 23:48:47 <abram> rohanpm, and, btw, PhoneME on Qtopia is almost working too :)
Oct 08 23:49:25 <abram> http://picasaweb.google.com/borisov.mikhail/PhoneME
Oct 09 00:01:26 <rohanpm> abram: there is a bug filed for the reiserfs issue, scheduled for 4.4.2
Oct 09 00:01:36 <abram> rohanpm, thanks
Oct 09 00:02:39 <abram> rohanpm, and what do you think about PhoneME? It's opensource and it will run on top of Qt Extended
Oct 09 00:12:15 <rohanpm> abram: looks useful
Oct 09 00:12:37 <abram> rohanpm, looks like the only variant for community projects
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 09 02:59:57 2008