**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 06 02:59:57 2010 Dec 06 06:09:34 hi all Dec 06 06:10:06 any one know , how the gnome-rdp can be installed in the ubuntu-arm working or omap4-blaze .? Dec 06 06:11:53 ranjith: probably the same way as any other package Dec 06 06:12:31 I ahve not yet installed any package in ubuntu-arm .. is it same as how we do in normal ubuntu ..? Dec 06 06:13:37 yes Dec 06 06:13:48 just other architecture Dec 06 06:17:32 ok Dec 06 06:17:53 so that means the installation will work with the apt-get install ..? Dec 06 06:55:27 while doing sudo dd bs=4M if=ubuntu-netbook-10.10-preinstalled-netbook-armel+.img of=/dev/ , will it create two parttions in the 4gb sdcard or three, Dec 06 06:56:14 I had instaled the ubuntu-arm on omap4-blaze last day, but while trying to install it again, now its failing. its creating 3 parttions in my card and not booting .. Dec 06 07:14:01 I do not know - I do not use ubuntu images Dec 06 07:15:39 hrw: is there any other way than using this image ..? Dec 06 09:01:52 hi Dec 06 11:58:35 Is there a mailing list similar to this channel? Dec 06 12:04:07 sveinse: ubuntu-devel is used now Dec 06 12:17:43 hey guys anybody in U.S heard about a U.S missile launch those days? Dec 06 12:39:37 morning Dec 06 12:42:21 morning Dec 06 12:43:44 Is there a way to build apps with the cross compiler and make the linking against userspace target [dynamic] libraries? Dec 06 12:45:18 I'm trying to build a Qt application, which I am able to fully build and link with a cross compiler. But as soon as I link against other libs which is installed on the target Ubuntu ARM, the linker gets confused Dec 06 12:46:37 E.g 1) On target /usr/lib/libpthread.so is a linker script referring to "/lib/libpthread.so" which confuses the cross compiler, as this is then referring to the host lib Dec 06 12:48:13 So I fixed that by modifying the scripts and the linker is partly happy. When I try to link against, say libpulse.so, it requires a lot of other libs, like libz.so, which the linker cannot find without explicitly naming -lz when linking Dec 06 12:48:45 It gets me to wonder: How is it intended to use the cross compiler should be used and what option have i missed? Dec 06 12:48:55 Is these problems at all familiar to anyone? Dec 06 12:50:16 On target native building is really not an option for us, because it pratically renders the build servers useless... Dec 06 12:51:19 One option could be to make a ARM rootfs with the -dev packages installed, and inject the cross-compiler into it and then use chroot. Dec 06 12:51:51 But this seems like hairy methods to me Dec 06 12:52:39 and it's still slow, real cross should be the best option Dec 06 12:52:47 maybe hrw can help you better Dec 06 12:52:58 but I believe this will only be fixed with multiarch support Dec 06 12:54:59 sveinse: check for xdeb in wiki.linaro.org Dec 06 12:55:07 * hrw -> confcall Dec 06 12:56:19 rsalveti: hello Dec 06 13:00:27 janimo: hey Dec 06 13:00:43 rsalveti: was looking around what tasks to pick :) Dec 06 13:00:54 was looking into the haskell FTBFS's Dec 06 13:01:00 and to the linaro qemu thing Dec 06 13:01:20 since my arm board arrives tomorrow, I think I'll try out the install in qemu first Dec 06 13:01:20 hrw: anything particular I'm looking for on the wiki? Dec 06 13:01:44 janimo: ok, should be ok with qemu Dec 06 13:01:49 https://wiki.linaro.org/UsingXdeb Dec 06 13:01:54 if you use the same qemu as linaro and the omap3 kernel Dec 06 13:02:26 rsalveti: yes, using qemu from linaro ppa, omap3 10.10 image Dec 06 13:02:35 and will look for a kernel image Dec 06 13:04:03 bah Dec 06 13:04:05 http://packages.debian.org/experimental/libreoffice Dec 06 13:04:09 no armel builds Dec 06 13:04:48 ogra_ac: I'll look into OO as well Dec 06 13:05:10 i guess you have to wait for the kdelibs stuff to be done Dec 06 13:05:11 s/OO/LibO/ Dec 06 13:05:16 it wont build otherwise Dec 06 13:05:17 sure Dec 06 13:05:19 ah Dec 06 13:05:23 just when it is time Dec 06 13:05:41 so is the toolchain fix for Qt released then? Dec 06 13:05:48 well, i'm not sure we will sync it into natty Dec 06 13:05:57 LibO ? Dec 06 13:06:01 (libO i mean) Dec 06 13:06:16 hmm, past freeze or why? Dec 06 13:06:19 they have 3.3 RC1 out Dec 06 13:06:27 the toolchain fix was actually there before A1 but nobody noticed (the changelog entry was a bit weird) Dec 06 13:06:32 and seem to be progressing nice, and the deb packager is up to date Dec 06 13:06:42 well, i have no idea what the TB decided Dec 06 13:06:47 so QT stuff should just need a 'try rebuild' ? Dec 06 13:06:55 so i dont know if we ship OO.o or libO Dec 06 13:06:57 ogra_ac: ah, was there a TB meeting regarding this Dec 06 13:07:02 * janimo missed it :( Dec 06 13:07:03 no idea Dec 06 13:07:15 but i would expect this to be a TB decision Dec 06 13:07:24 I hope we'll use LibO, much nicer upstream, much less work for ubuntu packager Dec 06 13:07:29 yes Dec 06 13:07:52 i was just writing some letters with zoho and its really unusable Dec 06 13:08:03 that made me look at the debian libO stuff Dec 06 13:08:19 but isn;t current OO in natty working? Dec 06 13:08:27 should work afaik Dec 06 13:08:47 LibO takes many hours to build on a decent x86 desktop Dec 06 13:08:48 but my ac100 has only 4G free, i dont want to waste that space on an office suite Dec 06 13:08:56 I wonder how much it is on an arm borad Dec 06 13:09:01 so i decided to use what we ship on arm Dec 06 13:09:07 which is zoho Dec 06 13:09:15 but that has multiple issues Dec 06 13:09:18 I did not know about zoho Dec 06 13:09:21 is that FOSS too? Dec 06 13:09:28 its a web sevice Dec 06 13:09:33 similar to google docs Dec 06 13:09:34 no deskto pcomponent at all? Dec 06 13:09:43 ok Dec 06 13:09:49 there is mime integration and .desktop files we ship Dec 06 13:10:00 I knew about it but though maybe there some glue for the ubuntu desktoip (indicators whatnot) Dec 06 13:10:03 JamieBennett did do that before he moved to linaro Dec 06 13:10:14 nobody really improved it beyond that Dec 06 13:10:35 but the issues i had were rather on the zoho side, not with our integration Dec 06 13:10:42 yes Dec 06 13:11:09 main issue is that it hangs eternally once you try to use copy/paste Dec 06 13:11:28 OO.o takes 36h to build on armel Dec 06 13:11:37 i wouldnt expect libO to be much different Dec 06 13:12:02 buut as soon as we switch to panda buildds that will change significantly Dec 06 13:12:16 (should reduce the time to 1/2) Dec 06 13:15:58 hrw: Can I build production apps with xdeb, or is it just for convenience (i.e. experimental) ? Dec 06 13:16:43 experimental rather Dec 06 13:16:56 ubuntu and crosscompilation does not match Dec 06 13:17:18 so I've figured on my own.. Dec 06 13:17:52 sveinse: never heard of that mistical 16core 5GHz arm cpus and mainboard which takes 8 of them + 128GB of 3333MHz ddr3 ram? Dec 06 13:18:16 I heard that ogra_ac uses such as desktop Dec 06 13:18:33 ?? Dec 06 13:18:40 > Dec 06 13:18:43 heh Dec 06 13:18:47 i wouldnt mind to Dec 06 13:18:57 would be wuieter than my laptop Dec 06 13:18:58 neither would I Dec 06 13:19:00 hrw: I should propose this to the purchasing and the the IT dept... Guess they won't like :D Dec 06 13:19:01 *quieter Dec 06 13:21:27 Kind of ironic I would say. We have a large build server to our disposal in this project, but cannot use it properly to our benefit: cross-compile is dodgy, qemu is inefficient, running on target... :( Dec 06 13:25:57 hrw: is it only that ubuntu and xcompilation do not match or xdeb itself is not mature on any platform Dec 06 13:26:39 xdeb is not mature Dec 06 13:26:44 it is improving Dec 06 13:28:27 Well on the flipside, my impression is that Ubuntu ARM is pretty stable, since it relies on only native compiling. Dec 06 13:30:15 one of the reasons why we chose Ubuntu as system for our project (over OE) Dec 06 13:41:42 Are there any risks in cross compiling an application and then exporting it to the target in relationship to which cross compiler is used? E.g. when the app dynamically relies on libc, I cannot choose cross compiler (CodeSourcery vs. armel-cross) freely since these are build against specific libc libs, right? Dec 06 13:42:25 (when running Ubuntu ARM on target, using libc installed from ubuntu) Dec 06 14:51:29 ubuntu 10.10 provides armel cross compiler Dec 06 14:52:38 but is has a bug 684625 which I have a fix for so matter of 2 weeks? Dec 06 14:52:42 Launchpad bug 684625 in gcc-4.5 (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "libc6 is compiled for armv5 instead of armv7a (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/684625 Dec 06 15:11:18 ndec, holding on the phone Dec 06 15:12:04 davidm: sorry. i am a bit late. i am coming Dec 06 15:12:22 ndec, NP Dec 06 15:12:36 ndec, was worried I had messed up the time somehow Dec 06 15:24:54 * rsalveti lunch Dec 06 15:49:52 ogra_ac: hey there Dec 06 15:50:18 Trying to understand the initramfs thing ... where does run-init come from? The only source I know of is klibc Dec 06 15:51:56 npitre: ah, the other guys here thought you do Dec 06 15:52:06 (wrong channel) Dec 06 16:46:56 dmart: what is it you don't understand ? Dec 06 16:53:54 dcordes: I don't understand ogra's statement about run-init being linked against glibc ... if run-init is build from the klibc package ...? Dec 06 16:53:58 /win 5 Dec 06 17:04:01 rsalveti: Did you know that Friday's (Alpha 1) image doesn't have networking? Dec 06 17:09:41 GrueMaster: I only saw that the nm-applet icon wasn't there Dec 06 17:10:02 that's kind of ok for alpha, you still can fire dhcp by hand if you need/want Dec 06 17:10:21 but would be good to reproduce the issue, fire a bug and debug Dec 06 17:10:29 seems that the gnome-panel is not that stable either Dec 06 17:10:39 some times I get seg fault while loading it Dec 06 17:10:50 just need to find time to debug and report these issues Dec 06 17:11:28 Not a big deal for A1, but this kind of stuff needs to be listed in the release notes. This is one of the reasons why I hate last minute respins. Dec 06 17:12:22 sure, but we did the respin because otherwise we would basically miss it Dec 06 17:12:28 Friday was supposed to be dedicated to blueprint work. Instead I had to pack up a panda & monitor to take downtown to the PDX meeting so I could try to figure this out. Dec 06 17:12:57 I understand the reasoning behind the respin. Never said I had to like it. :P Dec 06 17:13:58 But so far, I have had little time for blueprint work, due to respin testing, -proposed testing, and other interrupts. Dec 06 17:14:30 yeah, I also got quite busy with stuff I wasn't planning for Dec 06 17:14:30 * GrueMaster wonders if someone added an automated test somewhere to test his sanity. Dec 06 17:14:44 GrueMaster: if you find time, check if today's image also have this issue Dec 06 17:15:17 I already pulled it. Will look at in a little bit. (part of my morning routine). Dec 06 17:18:16 ok, let me know if you're still facing these issues, will try to debug later then Dec 06 17:50:36 ogra_ac: abiword doesn't work for you? ac100 is going well then? Dec 06 18:45:28 ogra, ogra_ac about usb-imagewriter or so, is there a good reason why it can't use compressed images and decompress them? Dec 06 18:50:13 Neko: You can file a wishlist bug for it. The images it was originally designed for are x86 .iso type images though. It really doesn't do a raw-write as needed by our preinstalled images. Dec 06 18:51:57 not Startup Disk Creator Dec 06 18:52:00 usb-imagewriter Dec 06 18:52:16 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usb-imagewriter Dec 06 18:58:01 I don't think it has been worked on in over a year, since usb-imagecreator became the default for Ubuntu. Dec 06 18:58:36 And ogra is out until the end of the year (may make an appearance now and again, but doubtful). Dec 06 19:01:24 usb-imagecreator doesn't work for arm netbook images which are still shipped as .img Dec 06 19:02:30 I can't believe Ubuntu armel is still a second-rate distribution after Mark waved an AC100 round and said "this is the future!!" Dec 06 19:02:44 is he being overridden by committee or something who only care about amd64? Dec 06 19:03:29 well, as mark said, that's the future Dec 06 19:03:33 not now hehe Dec 06 19:04:01 but the idea is to get closer and closer with other archs Dec 06 19:04:47 startup disk creator only writes to partitions not to disks Dec 06 19:04:50 it's really clumsy :( Dec 06 19:05:35 Like I said, it was designed for .iso images to be written to USB. Dec 06 19:07:11 I guess it's time to write a new tool for it Dec 06 19:07:19 sounds like a fun project for me :D Dec 06 19:08:31 BTW does Ubuntu hold the same "ARGH IT HAS TO BE GPL!!!!!" policy of Debian? Dec 06 19:09:15 lol Dec 06 19:09:36 okay let me rephrase that in a less funny way Dec 06 19:10:09 does Ubuntu hold the same "ARGH IT HAS TO BE GPL!!!!" policy as Debian, or comparitively the "OMG IF IT'S NOT BSD WE SHOULD REWRITE IT" of Open/FreeBSD for example? Dec 06 19:10:37 because to be honest the BSD tools are much better than the GNU ones.. BSD tar is awesome for example, since it uses libarchive Dec 06 19:10:56 Neko: Why not pull a branch of usb-imagecreator and enhance it? Dec 06 19:11:12 I'm apt-get sourcing it now :D Dec 06 19:12:12 I just figured maybe it would be a cute idea to use the bsdtar and bsdcpio by default and make tar and cpio wrappers around it to mess with what the GNU differences are Dec 06 19:12:15 they can be faked.. Dec 06 19:14:36 it reduces the footprint by a little bit, compression is automatically detected and extensible, it really is wicked Dec 06 19:31:33 rsalveti: Something changed recently in natty as to networking. I tried re-adding "auto usb0 ; iface usb0 inet dhcp" to /etc/network/interfaces and it works again. Dec 06 19:31:58 I don't have manifests for the images prior to A1 though. Dec 06 19:32:16 GrueMaster: ok, but that should work, are you able to see the nm-applet now? Dec 06 19:32:35 After adding the above two lines, yes. Dec 06 19:32:42 And it connects. Dec 06 19:32:48 hm, weird Dec 06 19:33:20 Although the nm applet icon appears to be a disconnected wifi icon. Dec 06 19:33:44 Should be two arrows (up & down) for ethernet. Dec 06 19:34:22 iface usb0 inet dhcp probably says to nm to avoid managing it Dec 06 19:34:35 hmm/ Dec 06 19:34:42 Will try w/o. Dec 06 19:35:05 on maverick we don't need to put these lines and it works ok, as expected Dec 06 19:35:21 we used to. Dec 06 19:35:23 need to check the nm log to understand why it's not calling dhcp at the interface Dec 06 19:35:48 GrueMaster: check /var/log/daemon.log Dec 06 19:35:49 I wrote a script to fix images prior to them working properly in mav. Dec 06 19:36:01 ok. rebooting, so one sec. Dec 06 19:36:59 hmm. Dropping "iface usb0 inet dhcp" fails. No nm applet. Dec 06 19:37:21 so it's probably failing to manage the usb0 interface Dec 06 19:37:30 can you paste me the logs, since the boot? Dec 06 19:39:03 Erm, give me a sec. No network, no pastebinit. Dec 06 19:41:13 GrueMaster: give dhclient usb0 at serial Dec 06 19:41:47 You assume I am using a serial console. Dec 06 19:42:11 I'm getting it online. Just need to install pastebinit. Dec 06 19:44:50 Grrr. universe is still not activated in the image. Dec 06 19:50:17 rsalveti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/540406 Dec 06 19:52:28 GrueMaster: this is with or without the modification you made? Dec 06 19:52:56 Should have both. I don't think the file changes between reboots. Dec 06 19:53:33 My changes would be lower down the line. Dec 06 19:53:45 GrueMaster: Dec 6 02:44:58 sycamore init: network-manager main process (623) killed by SEGV signal Dec 06 19:53:48 not good Dec 06 19:53:50 first error Dec 06 19:54:00 nm-dispatcher.action: Script '/etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d/01ifupdown' exited with error status 1 Dec 06 19:54:22 Yea, I'm seeing that a lot as I scroll down. Dec 06 19:54:57 first thing would be to check why this script is returning error Dec 06 19:56:29 when you added your lines, nm probably decided not to manage the interface, and then it didn't get the segv Dec 06 19:56:42 nm is probably calling this script with usb0 Dec 06 19:58:40 Ifupdown: get unmanaged devices count: 1 Dec 06 19:58:47 here's where nm decided not to manage the usb0 interface Dec 06 19:59:46 GrueMaster: so our problem now is why nm is getting segv when trying to init the usb0 interface Dec 06 19:59:56 could be because it doesn't expect the script to return an error Dec 06 20:00:06 I'm comparing with my other panda running maverick. Dec 06 20:03:51 * rsalveti is updating his natty image Dec 06 20:05:06 I tried the script manually with all 4 cases it uses and haven't seen an error. Dec 06 20:05:19 Will reboot w/o auto usb0 settings. Dec 06 20:09:20 If I didn't know any better, I would think that it is going ipv6 only. Dec 06 20:11:18 will try to reproduce it here when it finishes the update Dec 06 20:19:38 argh, sd card is too slow Dec 06 20:31:03 rsalveti: BTW: I noticed that there are huge difference between sd cards, even within the same class rating, because their latencies varies a lot. Dec 06 20:32:02 It's a challenge for us when we are sourcing sd cards because we need the right one, but its selection parameters is not listed in the card's specs Dec 06 20:33:41 I went to my local gadget store and bought a new SD card, and it was totally useless. It's read and write speeds were allright, even better than my old card, (I did verify) but the latencies are 5-7 times slower than my old. Dec 06 20:34:11 Ubuntu was going from useful to useless Dec 06 20:35:03 sveinse: yeah, true, problem is that I cannot find many different sd cards around Dec 06 20:35:11 mostly they are from kingston Dec 06 20:35:47 that's why I have 2 usb disks around, currently running with maverick Dec 06 20:35:50 a *lot* faster Dec 06 20:36:10 yes, the slow card was in fact a kingston. The old was a sandisk. I even tried a transcend bundled with my HTC. It's faster! (despite being a low-price card) Dec 06 20:36:30 cool, nice to know Dec 06 20:37:06 Are you modifying the CHS layout of the card? Dec 06 20:38:51 Some have proposed that doing so can really confuse the build in flash translation layer (FTL) since it needs to wrap 512b sectors into x kb flash sectors. Changing the CHS layout would probably make the sector requests out of order and thus creating a *huge* amout of erase cycles Dec 06 20:39:48 interesting, never heard about that Dec 06 20:41:39 I havent confirmed if its really like this yet, though. In light of our commercial sourcing, I think I will ask specifically to the selected vendor about it to confirm/deny it. Dec 06 20:41:54 ok Dec 06 20:42:04 sveinse: kingston just brands cards - atleast it was that way some time ago Dec 06 20:43:13 hrw: I think so too. And I also believe the card available at your local computer store are mostly low-price and low on performance. Dec 06 20:43:42 I run ubuntu on sata disk connected though usb Dec 06 20:44:34 I also did that, but the USB stack died a couple of times and killed the FS :( Dec 06 20:44:39 but usb on pandaboard is not as fast as I woule too Dec 06 20:45:22 I experience NFS being more stable, albeit slower Dec 06 20:46:21 depends - on some devices it is faster then local storage Dec 06 20:49:32 hrw: I trust I can rely on that the host's libstdc++6-armel-cross and libc6-armel-cross are in sync/ABI compatible with the native armel counterparts? Dec 06 20:49:51 yes Dec 06 20:50:03 sveinse: same sources, same configs, same compile flags Dec 06 20:50:09 excellent Dec 06 20:50:39 sveinse: but current one are broken Dec 06 20:51:21 hrw: In what way? Do you have a reference to bug or similar? Dec 06 20:51:22 normal are armv7, cross are armv5 Dec 06 20:51:44 bug 684625 Dec 06 20:51:45 Launchpad bug 684625 in gcc-4.5 (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "libc6 is compiled for armv5 instead of armv7a (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/684625 Dec 06 20:53:38 rsalveti: I wonder if NetworkManager is having issues with the non-existent mac address that was fixed in 2.6.35-903.19? Dec 06 20:54:20 GrueMaster: don't know, what was fixed is the normal support of setting up the mac address Dec 06 20:54:43 but getting a segv is not that cool Dec 06 20:54:49 hrw: Does this affect the cross compiled apps in any way? I manually specify -march & friends, and I only rely on dynamic libc/libstc++ Dec 06 20:54:52 still waiting the update =\ Dec 06 20:56:05 sveinse: should not for shared Dec 06 21:01:30 hrw: In regards of bug #683832, Does this mean that Qt uses some inline asm that triggers the failure? Dec 06 21:01:31 Launchpad bug 683832 in gcc-4.5-armel-cross (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "gcc fails to cross compile Qt (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/683832 Dec 06 21:01:44 yes Dec 06 21:01:47 rsalveti: I'm manually updating to 2.6.35-903.19 to see if the mac address fix helps. Dec 06 21:01:48 * hrw -> away Dec 06 21:02:09 GrueMaster: ok Dec 06 21:02:22 Would be nice if kernel/sru teams would get it released already. I spent part of my holiday testing that. Dec 06 21:03:05 the sru released for kernel takes quite a while, I noticed Dec 06 21:03:12 *releases Dec 06 21:04:04 Only when it doesn't apply to security patches. I went around this cycle several times during Lucid with network patches for both dove & babbage. Dec 06 21:04:09 GrueMaster: how can someone using an sd card update from one release to the other? it'll take hours! Dec 06 21:04:20 a lot easier to backup and grab a new preinstalled image hehe Dec 06 21:04:24 ~7 releases later, it was finally released into main. Dec 06 21:04:40 ouch Dec 06 21:04:53 I find using a local mirror helps immensely. Dec 06 21:05:14 sure, but the main problem is not getting the packages, but installing them Dec 06 21:05:25 dpkg uses the disk a lot, and that is really slow Dec 06 21:05:53 Gah! Got distracted during reboot. HDMI switch moved to a different system, then this system came up with garbled display. Dec 06 21:06:06 True. Dec 06 21:06:29 But since these systems are mainly for development, it is easier to nuke & pave. Dec 06 21:07:07 yeah Dec 06 21:07:41 Interesting. Something in the panel (maybe the panel itself) is in a respawn loop. Dec 06 21:08:15 GrueMaster: yeah, with segv Dec 06 21:08:24 another weird segv issue Dec 06 21:09:02 doesn't happen all the time Dec 06 21:10:21 ok, finished the update, time to reboot Dec 06 21:11:00 Hmm. Kernel -19 has no effect. Still get the error about permanent mac in the log and the SEGV. Dec 06 21:11:16 ok, good to confirm Dec 06 21:13:18 Wow, this is new (for me). I sometimes lose video in X. Have to switch to text console & back. Dec 06 21:13:30 never saw that before. Dec 06 21:14:04 GrueMaster: underflow? Dec 06 21:14:08 GrueMaster: check dmesg Dec 06 21:14:36 Yep. GFX_FIFO_UNDERFLOW Dec 06 21:14:46 GrueMaster: known issue Dec 06 21:15:05 Yea, I had heard about it. Just never saw it before now. Dec 06 21:15:23 http://people.canonical.com/~rsalveti/maverick/kernel/es2/linux-image-2.6.35-903-omap4_2.6.35-903.18rsalveti2_armel.deb this kernel brings the changes needed to improve it Dec 06 21:15:41 Is it more pronounced on ES2.0? That's what I'm currently testing on. Dec 06 21:15:44 but as the commits are not in the best shape, and it's just a workaround, we didn't move it further Dec 06 21:16:07 GrueMaster: yeah, probably because of a slower mem Dec 06 21:16:19 ah. figures. Dec 06 21:16:50 Hey. We have sunshine. Haven't seen that much all year. Dec 06 21:16:56 Kind of cool. Dec 06 21:18:19 :-) Dec 06 21:18:40 Well, it is 1pm. Need food. Dec 06 21:18:42 brb Dec 06 21:50:45 hmm, dmart is gone Dec 06 21:51:37 Neko, usb-imagewriter needs porting to udisks first, i dont mind to add a line that calls zcat instead of dd if it finds a img.gz suffix indeed Dec 06 21:52:00 zcat can write to a block file? Dec 06 21:52:14 see our installation instructions Dec 06 21:52:32 I gotta get into GTK anyway Dec 06 21:52:44 we need to write some tools to properly control power management and all kinds on the Smartbook anyway Dec 06 21:52:50 turning off wireless/bluetooth etc. individually etc. Dec 06 21:53:02 seems there is no clever way to do that in GNOME or anything Dec 06 21:53:14 also to control HDMI and audio on the Nettop Dec 06 21:53:17 there is no difference in "gunzip file.img | dd of=/device/foo" or zcat file.img >/device/foo Dec 06 21:53:34 ugh Dec 06 21:53:44 ugh? Dec 06 21:53:45 why would you write extra tools for any of that ? Dec 06 21:53:53 just fix integration with the existing tools Dec 06 21:54:08 well not so much write extra tools as extra panels in the existing tools :D Dec 06 21:54:24 as it stands though there is no existing tool for configuring HDMI settings Dec 06 21:54:29 well, for gnome-power.manager you just need to make the kernel DTRT Dec 06 21:54:36 DTRT? Dec 06 21:54:51 oh that Dec 06 21:54:51 yeah, for HDMI you should add something to the display settings Dec 06 21:54:57 well sure there is a sysfs interface Dec 06 21:55:08 or will be Dec 06 21:55:09 but it should be generic enough that other machines with HDMI can use it Dec 06 21:55:32 yeah most of it is setting values that go into the AVI Infoframe and to select HDMI audio source (I2S or SPDIF) Dec 06 21:55:33 after all its just UI work and making sure your kernel sticks to existing standards Dec 06 21:55:55 right now we're rewriting battery and display drivers though Dec 06 21:56:10 HDMI audio is trivially done by a pulse profile (as long as your ASoC devide works right) Dec 06 21:56:32 but you can run both Dec 06 21:56:46 *device Dec 06 21:57:04 sure you can run both Dec 06 21:57:11 the idea is the hdmi chip is connected to both audio outputs. if you sink i2s to hdmi it converts it to hdmi. if you sink spdif to hdmi it spools it over hdmi Dec 06 21:57:13 as long as alsa exposes them right to pulse Dec 06 21:57:30 but pulseaudio doesn't have any idea on how to switch between them, there is no way to add a setting users can poke Dec 06 21:57:36 it just makes sure it can use each device Dec 06 21:57:37 sure Dec 06 21:57:43 we use that on the pandaboard Dec 06 21:58:04 there just needs to be a switch somewhere to tell the chip which bus it's gotta move audio from Dec 06 21:58:20 right, thats a matter of the driver Dec 06 21:58:40 we're taking the hint from the omap driver to add blocking notifier chains so they can all cooperate Dec 06 21:58:58 just expose all controls in alsa and have a switch inside the driver Dec 06 21:59:09 yeah, thats what omap does Dec 06 21:59:25 ehhh you can't have alsa controlling the hdmi audio switch it's freakish Dec 06 21:59:34 works fine on panda Dec 06 21:59:36 we'd have to hack the ASoc and SPDIF drivers to talk directly to the SII9022 Dec 06 21:59:45 right Dec 06 21:59:51 thats where that hack should happen Dec 06 21:59:54 well that's dumb it would not work on babbage Dec 06 21:59:58 or any other board on MX51 Dec 06 22:00:02 why would you lift it up to userspace and add latency Dec 06 22:00:03 or MX53.. it's board specific Dec 06 22:00:15 bad Dec 06 22:00:18 but well Dec 06 22:00:21 latency? Dec 06 22:00:25 what are you talking about Dec 06 22:00:34 make the kernel expose the right things and the userspace will behave right Dec 06 22:00:35 you write a value to a sysfs file Dec 06 22:00:47 it changes whether i2s or spdif is going over hdmi Dec 06 22:00:48 its all already there Dec 06 22:00:57 if it takes 5us or 5 seconds who cares Dec 06 22:01:21 but why dont you do it like everyone else and expose the switch in the asoc driver ? Dec 06 22:01:25 this isn't about somehow sending audio it's just a i2c register write Dec 06 22:01:28 sigh Dec 06 22:01:37 whs does it need to be an additional sysfs control instead Dec 06 22:01:45 show me where it bloody does this in another driver then Dec 06 22:01:48 where all userspace tools can already handle it right Dec 06 22:02:07 look at the omap4 asoc driver in the omap4 kernel tree of ubuntu Dec 06 22:02:12 url Dec 06 22:02:19 (and probably talk to liam) Dec 06 22:02:28 (ASoC upstream) Dec 06 22:02:41 we're not upstreaming shit. this is a hack so we can get it working. Dec 06 22:02:42 also known as lrg in here ;) Dec 06 22:03:01 well, if you dont want help, dont ask him then ;) Dec 06 22:03:04 up to you Dec 06 22:03:28 maybe in 6 months we'll look for a fancy way of pushing it upstream but there's a good chance none of the drivers we're messing with now are even going into mainline, and the ones that are in mainline are broken as hell anyway Dec 06 22:03:32 if you do a hack you will likely have to add more hacks to other areas (UI, userspace etc) Dec 06 22:03:34 it's a waste of time thinking about it Dec 06 22:03:43 why ? Dec 06 22:03:58 just do it right and port that stuff forward later Dec 06 22:04:01 because mainlining patches to one fucked up BSP driver and one broken mainline driver for this feature is a waste of time Dec 06 22:04:09 we're not thinking of mainline right now Dec 06 22:04:23 i'm not talking about mainline Dec 06 22:04:37 upstream, mainline, whatever, it's the same thing Dec 06 22:04:41 rivers, trains.. Dec 06 22:04:42 i'm just pointing you to the guy who knows most about SoC audio and can help you Dec 06 22:05:24 anyway, i'm on vacation ... Dec 06 22:05:35 just took a quick look at mails Dec 06 22:05:44 eh there is no omap4 soc driver in the kernel tree for ubuntu Dec 06 22:05:59 feel free to send a patch for usb-imagewriter, I'll happily apply it if its sane Dec 06 22:06:09 omap-hdmi maybe? Dec 06 22:06:27 must be somewhere on the kernel teams git server Dec 06 22:06:45 okay I see it, and you're talking crack. this is a specific driver to push audio over that bus. we don't need that Dec 06 22:06:52 some other driver pushes audio on the bus Dec 06 22:07:02 this is just a switch so we can tell the sii9022 which bus it is meant to be looking at Dec 06 22:08:49