**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 05 02:59:56 2011 Jun 05 03:18:39 hmmm. if this attempt fails, i may petition you for the mojo to do it the way you suggest **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jun 05 05:12:12 2011 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 05 05:18:15 2011 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jun 05 05:23:03 2011 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 05 05:24:14 2011 Jun 05 08:29:42 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=specific&order=relevance+desc&bug_status=__open__&product=&content=webm I have a feeling this is the thing that happens when ff4 and fennec crash in natty when playing webm Jun 05 12:40:25 persia: ok. content: unity-2d: QT_GRAPHICSSYSTEM: it seems like there is no activity about it. you proposed to report the problem in a different place and would like to ask your advise now. https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/791852 Jun 05 12:40:27 Ubuntu bug 791852 in unity-2d "unity-2d: does not parse QT_GRAPHICSSYSTEM env var" [Undecided,New] Jun 05 17:21:33 ogra_: would publicly available logs of this channel be a problem with you ? (you set the topic...) Jun 05 17:42:46 persia: do you know if the ubuntou people know that ubuntu-11.04-preinstalled-netbook-armel+omap4.img.gz is corrupt? Jun 05 17:48:36 dcordes: it requires someone with a stable irc-connection (ie. running irssi in a screen on a linux-server) and a public_html folder for that user to write the file into Jun 05 17:49:19 i'm not sure how many people are really using irc as it should be, most still seem to use clients on their workstations Jun 05 18:48:09 uh...isn't there a botlog already? Jun 05 19:30:56 gildean: I have a friend who has such a setup. the question is if the channel is OK with that. maybe some prefer staying 'unlogged' :) Jun 05 19:31:17 haha, the channel has nothing to say to that Jun 05 19:31:24 if you can join, you can log Jun 05 19:31:30 that's the way it goes Jun 05 19:32:06 i've been using irssi from a shell for about 10 years now Jun 05 19:32:32 before that, i used random clients on workstations Jun 05 19:32:45 like mirc and xchat Jun 05 19:35:17 but i don't autolog bigger channels, as the logs usually tend to grow and i don't have unlimited space on this server where i run my irssi Jun 05 19:35:45 logging #ac100 takes up around 300-500KB per week Jun 05 19:35:46 gildean: that's why I enjoy having some remote machine log everything. with web search function :) Jun 05 19:36:25 and double that because i log the channel with a weekly rotation and a separate full-log Jun 05 19:39:05 well thanks for providing the ac100 log! Jun 05 21:32:45 anyone here know anything about bluetooth + pandaboard + ubuntu? Jun 05 22:51:55 MrCurious: what's the problem about bluetooth + pandoraboard + ubuntu ? Jun 05 22:52:19 i cant work out how to get it to spot my bluetooth serial port Jun 05 22:52:40 i suppose i need to work out how to get it to pair or show devices that it sees Jun 05 23:01:25 MrCurious: serial port ? Jun 05 23:02:43 yes Jun 05 23:02:51 a bluetooth serial port Jun 05 23:04:28 http://www.satistronics.com/serial-port-bluetooth-module-masterslave-hc05_p2863.html Jun 05 23:04:34 works fine with Mac Jun 05 23:08:01 they are very nice modules for connecting serial devices wirelessly Jun 05 23:08:11 like AVR's, MSP's Jun 05 23:09:56 do you think that's a problem specific to ubuntu arm on the device ? Jun 05 23:14:58 well, i imagine first step would be checking the os for the os prescribed method of associating Jun 05 23:15:07 then drop to the device to see if its wired wrong. Jun 05 23:15:12 wouldn't you agree? Jun 05 23:20:29 MrCurious: I fear I am not following Jun 05 23:21:00 i am saying wouldnt you look to how something is done in the os before declaring the motherboard at fault? Jun 05 23:21:28 in otherwords, until i learn how ubuntu would associate with a bluetooth serial device, there is no sense pointing fault at the hardware Jun 05 23:21:56 if the answer is ubuntu has no concept of bluetooth then i can move on Jun 05 23:24:19 dcordes: never mind, i think there is a language translation issue at play here, and i dont wish to frustrate you Jun 05 23:27:48 MrCurious: oh sorry, I didn't mean to say it is a hardware problem. let me restate: did you try that serial connection in a different environment ? Jun 05 23:28:10 MrCurious: or: did you ever have a working bluetooth connection on your pandora board in ubuntu ? Jun 05 23:28:19 (maybe something more trivial like blueooth hid device Jun 05 23:29:44 the module has been tested working with mac osx Jun 05 23:29:58 discoverable, pairable, and serial communications tested working Jun 05 23:30:14 yes, so the only unknowns are ubuntu on pandaboard Jun 05 23:30:28 all else tested previously working Jun 05 23:31:00 apologies for not stating that or stating it clearer :) i am juggling too many things Jun 05 23:34:06 * persia points at irclogs.ubuntu.com for logs of this channel Jun 05 23:34:15 persia: ok thanks Jun 05 23:34:30 persia: maybe orga can put a reference in the topic Jun 05 23:34:44 dcordes, I don't know where the bug needs to be filed, but my recommendation would be to dig through the library docs, and find out what is supposed to check the environment variable: make sure that is loaded. Jun 05 23:35:00 MrCurious: unfortunately I am not very familiar with bluetooth at all, just trying to check if you have a working test environemnt and are narrowing down the error Jun 05 23:35:36 thats fine. i was just asking to see if anyone knew how to get the bluetooth associate with device dialog up Jun 05 23:35:53 MrCurious, I'm certain that ubuntu-11.04-preinstalled-netbook-armel+omap4.img.gz isn't corrupt, as I used it to install a panda :) Jun 05 23:36:04 * MrCurious nudges someone to remove the 11.04 omap4 image, its broked Jun 05 23:36:21 i tried it on multiple sd's Jun 05 23:36:32 multiple machines to burn it, multiple procedures Jun 05 23:36:35 Did you check the checksums of your download? Jun 05 23:36:39 It really worked for me. Jun 05 23:36:49 doesnt TCP guarantee error free transmission Jun 05 23:37:00 persia: nice Jun 05 23:37:02 Theoretically. In practice, not so much. Jun 05 23:37:07 persia: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/main-snapshot/qapplication.html#setGraphicsSystem found this Jun 05 23:37:08 i could try it again. Jun 05 23:37:17 but it seems many are having issues Jun 05 23:37:20 dcordes, That looks like a good place to start. Jun 05 23:37:24 from the mail lists Jun 05 23:38:04 As you like. It worked for me. Jun 05 23:38:22 persia: worst case I could grep the unity-2d-* code for setGraphicsSystem and default to native Jun 05 23:38:50 dcordes, I very strongly disbelieve that the unity-2d-* code has anything to do with that: it's very likely to be something with Qt Jun 05 23:40:12 I may be wrong though :) Jun 05 23:40:31 persia: the thing that makes be believe they should take the QT_GRAPHICSSYSTEM env var is that they do read the -graphicssystem switch Jun 05 23:41:06 persia: while i am re-downloading it, do you by chance have any experience with bluetooth devices in ubuntu :) Jun 05 23:41:12 Do you think that is being done by unoty-2d, or automatically because unity-2d instantiates qapplication? Jun 05 23:41:16 e.g. "unity-2d-launcher -graphicssystem=native" will give me native graphicssystem while "QT_GRAPHICSSYSTEM=native unity-2d-laucnerh" will not Jun 05 23:41:57 MrCurious, Far too much, sadly. I have no idea if the bluetooth device the panda claims to have works (I think there's no antenna, and I haven't played with it). Jun 05 23:42:18 it has a onboard ceramic Jun 05 23:42:56 i can turn on bluetooth Jun 05 23:43:08 but i dont know where to go to get the list of bluetooth devices to pair with Jun 05 23:43:27 Use any of the bluetooth management tools. What's your environment? Jun 05 23:44:11 If it's the netbook environment you're currently downloading, you'll get a bluetooth indicator when bluetooth is available, and can launch the discovery widgets from there. Jun 05 23:44:19 persia: I don't know. I will download the code Jun 05 23:44:57 dcordes, Makes sense. Someone might have overridden the default to force 2D, although that seems unfortunate to me. Jun 05 23:45:15 dcordes, But if you don't find it, don't be discouraged: it may be something about how qapplication is instantiated, etc. Jun 05 23:45:32 persia: not sure what qapplication is Jun 05 23:45:46 persia: I will just stupidly grep for the setGraphicsSystem Jun 05 23:46:18 QApplication: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/main-snapshot/qapplication.html : the parent class for most Qt applications. Jun 05 23:46:28 (you may already have this page open) Jun 05 23:47:11 ah right :) Jun 05 23:54:21 persia: why do you think it's unfortunate ? Jun 05 23:54:30 persia: at least they had a reason for it : Jun 05 23:54:46 /* Forcing graphics system to 'raster' instead of the default 'native' Jun 05 23:54:46 which on X11 is 'XRender'. Jun 05 23:54:46 'XRender' defaults to using a TrueColor visual. We do _not_ mimick that Jun 05 23:54:49 behaviour with 'raster' by calling QApplication::setColorSpec because Jun 05 23:54:52 of a bug where black rectangular artifacts were appearing randomly: Jun 05 23:55:31 That would be unfortunate because of a choice to work around a bug rather than fixing it. Jun 05 23:56:13 oh that makes sense Jun 05 23:56:14 The more so because it causes other problems (like the one you are experiencing) Jun 05 23:56:31 well it seems they fixed that bug already because running with the native works just fine on my device Jun 05 23:57:00 We have no idea. There's no documentation of the bug, nor the environment in which it was produced. Jun 05 23:57:11 maybe I should let them know via https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bug/734143 Jun 05 23:57:12 Ubuntu bug 734143 in unity-2d "Black rectangular artifacts appearing when opening a few launcher contextual menus" [High,Fix released] Jun 05 23:57:29 the url is from above comment Jun 05 23:57:45 Oh, there was a URL! Excellent. That's doing it right. Jun 05 23:58:14 status: In Progress → Fix Committed Jun 05 23:58:21 I'd recommend getting someone to try it on a macbook pro 7.1 with -gtgraphicssystem=native Jun 05 23:58:40 Maybe it's something unique to that hardware, or something in that render path, etc. Jun 05 23:58:52 I wonder if by fix fboucault means the default raster Jun 05 23:59:30 The "fix" is http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~fboucault/unity-2d/dont_set_colorspec/revision/447 Jun 06 00:00:11 ok Jun 06 00:00:20 The missing part is the investigation of the render path on the hardware showing the bug to find the underlying bug. Jun 06 00:00:23 so what about s/raster/native/ ? Jun 06 00:00:30 So, unity-2d is "fixed" with the workaround. Jun 06 00:00:39 *but* the underlying bug still remains, and needs investigation. Jun 06 00:00:47 If that is fixed, the workaround may be removed from unity-2d Jun 06 00:00:51 Which then solves your issue. Jun 06 00:01:44 I strongly suspect that use of "native" on the hardware reported in 734143 will continue to show the issue. Jun 06 00:02:01 ok Jun 06 00:02:03 So it's not safe to just randomly assign it to "native", unless you want to carry a fork for some time. Jun 06 00:02:26 Depends on your goal, really. If you want Ubuntu 11.10 to just work on your device, you'll want to fix the issue with the MacBook Pro. Jun 06 00:02:38 If you want Ubuntu 11.04 to work on your device *now*, you'll fork the code. Jun 06 00:03:21 (yes, fixing a MacBook Pro to help make an ARM handheld work better seems counter-intuitive, but it's all in the spirit of collaboration :) ) Jun 06 00:03:42 persia: my suggestion: switch back to native and work around on the macbook pro. according to bill filler, unity-2d is supposed to provide support for devices with no hardware accelerated graphics, especially ARM devices Jun 06 00:04:02 Why not just fix the macbook pro issue? Jun 06 00:04:15 Then nobody needs any workarounds. Jun 06 00:04:20 that would be best Jun 06 00:05:05 I'd probably start by finding someone with the hardware, and having them test (we know kaleo has such an environment: others may). Jun 06 00:05:19 a) I don't have a macbook b) I have the impression that I have the smaller lobby, with only one person reporting raster problems. Jun 06 00:05:31 my two issues with that Jun 06 00:05:43 which forbid moving the process on Jun 06 00:06:00 Try to make a simpler test-case, which can then be given to the X team, who may be able to sort the rendering path issue. Jun 06 00:06:16 a) doesn't matter: there are lots of other people with the hardware. Just find one. Jun 06 00:06:41 b) Who cares if it's just you reporting an issue: 734143 was also just one person. Jun 06 00:06:48 if I prepare such a well working natty image for easy install t housands will download it in short time Jun 06 00:06:57 and use it on that device Jun 06 00:07:15 That's not interesting in terms of bugfixing (although interesting in other ways). Jun 06 00:07:26 What's interesting in terms of bugfixing is the investigation of the issue. Jun 06 00:08:05 So, you'll want to find someone with the hardware (I gave you one name: randomly asking in #ubuntu+1 or #ubuntu-testers will probably get you some more) Jun 06 00:08:21 Then you'll want to work with them to find out precisely when the black rectangles occur Jun 06 00:08:34 Then you'll want to prepare a minimal program that generates the black rectangles Jun 06 00:08:47 Then you'll want to submit that to the rendering folk (as a new bug), who will likely sort it. Jun 06 00:08:56 ok Jun 06 00:09:16 maybe the potential testers can even help a bit with that Jun 06 00:09:26 If Kaleo has time to help, he'll probably be glad to help make the minimal program (he's the reporter of 734143) Jun 06 00:09:39 I am not a good programmer :) Jun 06 00:09:57 Yet :) Jun 06 00:10:04 any idea which device would be the bluetooth radio? Jun 06 00:10:31 But seriously, 99% of this is just a matter of tracking down who can reproduce, and who understands the rendering path, and getting them to discuss/test the issue. Jun 06 00:11:30 MrCurious, When you say "which device", what do you mean? (as I doubt answering with the chip model will help you) Jun 06 00:11:55 trying to get a lead on the bluetooth modem. working with hcitool now Jun 06 00:12:09 trying to give myself a bluetooth clue Jun 06 00:12:20 its not going as fast as i would like :( Jun 06 00:12:21 hcitool is *very* low level. Jun 06 00:12:33 (and incredibly hard to use, in my experience) Jun 06 00:12:36 What's your high-level goal? Jun 06 00:12:41 got a better tool that i can explore Jun 06 00:13:01 want to see devices that i can pair with (for the purpose of a serial port) Jun 06 00:13:21 i have tested bluetooth serial port modules Jun 06 00:13:23 work with mac Jun 06 00:13:29 wanting to get them working with linux now Jun 06 00:13:36 persia: I see. So the problem is basically that the workaround situation satisfies most and potential problems are not being noticed Jun 06 00:13:54 dcordes, That's my opinion, yes. Jun 06 00:14:08 dcordes, And further that you've exposed one of the problems, so they aren't just "potential" Jun 06 00:14:30 MrCurious, So, if you boot to the desktop, do you have a bluetooth icon on the indicator? Jun 06 00:14:33 persia: Ok then, thanks a lot Jun 06 00:15:45 yes Jun 06 00:15:51 currently it shows as turned on Jun 06 00:16:17 i know teh mac address of the serial port bluetooth device 20:11:02:17:10:97 Jun 06 00:16:17 OK. Now, choose "Set up new device..." Jun 06 00:16:35 where do i find set up new device? Jun 06 00:16:41 Should be in the indicator menu Jun 06 00:16:49 persia: hope I can catch kaleo around tomorrow. need to take a nap now. good night ! Jun 06 00:16:51 it has turn off, and preferences Jun 06 00:16:59 preferences has a recieve files button Jun 06 00:17:04 and a big turn on button Jun 06 00:17:15 Press the "Turn on" button Jun 06 00:17:21 i did Jun 06 00:17:36 the bluetooth drop down remains un changed Jun 06 00:17:56 Hrm. For me, the indicator menu has "Set up new device..." and the preferences window has a "Set up new device..." button. Jun 06 00:18:14 You're running Ubuntu 11.04? Jun 06 00:18:22 10.10 upgraded to 11.04 Jun 06 00:18:34 That shouldn't make a difference. Jun 06 00:18:35 thinking its time to do the re-download, re-install thing Jun 06 00:18:52 That's typically pointless, unless you want to change filesystems for some reason. Jun 06 00:18:58 If it's not pointless, that's a bug. Jun 06 00:20:11 So, you're looking for something that looks like http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-bluetooth/stable/figures/bluetooth-properties.png.en Jun 06 00:20:22 Is this very different from the bluetooth preferences dialog you see? Jun 06 00:20:39 (ignore the language differences) Jun 06 00:20:56 persia: this command similar to what you used? zcat ubuntu-11.04-preinstalled-netbook-armel+omap4.img.gz | dd of=/dev/sda bs=16M Jun 06 00:21:48 I verified the checksums, ran gunzip, and then (separately) ran `dd if=... of=/dev/sdg bs=4M` Jun 06 00:22:05 Shouldn't matter that much though. Jun 06 00:22:16 Did you make sure that /dev/sda is not mounted? Jun 06 00:23:57 did NOW :D Jun 06 00:24:11 could swear it wasnt mounted when i started Jun 06 00:24:25 The automounter is kinda aggressive :) Jun 06 00:24:32 doing it on a chumby Jun 06 00:24:40 because its stable-ish Jun 06 00:24:50 and has a not-used sd slot Jun 06 00:25:39 although since i switched to a USB SSD for rootfs, the panda has been rock solid Jun 06 00:25:47 something about SD cards i just dont trust Jun 06 00:26:18 Unfortunately the panda cannot function without one Jun 06 00:26:34 (although one doesn't really need it post-boot, if one configures everything just so) Jun 06 00:27:08 that i did, but then i turned the SD card into SWAP Jun 06 00:27:24 seemed tolerable once there was no FS on it compeeting for bandwidth Jun 06 00:27:31 That will give it a nice short lifetime ) Jun 06 00:27:58 persia: this 16g 20mb/s card has offended me by constantly corrupting with the 11.04 image Jun 06 00:28:22 persia: i might point out to you that the ubuntu image's have swap on the ssd enabled by default Jun 06 00:28:32 so seems short lives are not a concern in these parts ;) Jun 06 00:28:39 see the file in the root directory Jun 06 00:28:42 SWAP.swap Jun 06 00:28:53 and check your free, its turned on Jun 06 00:31:49 Oh, I know. First thing I turn off. The issue is that some folk want to be able to run with 256MB, which simply cannot work without swap: the swapfile was turned on to avoid OOM issues on first-boot. Jun 06 00:34:29 ahhh Jun 06 00:34:42 so in future, it will self-disable after resize? Jun 06 00:34:57 Not soon, no. Jun 06 00:35:15 It doesn't turn on until after resize. Jun 06 00:35:24 thats what i mean Jun 06 00:35:31 i think it stayed on well into first boot Jun 06 00:35:36 possibly second boot Jun 06 00:35:41 And it's likely to remain until the vast majority of available devices work well without swap. Jun 06 00:35:56 It stays on forever unless manually disabled or removed. Jun 06 00:36:52 i dont feel so bad about swapping to sd now :D Jun 06 00:37:02 but i think i will move over to swapping to spinning disk soon Jun 06 00:37:58 That should get you expanded SD life. Jun 06 00:38:18 Although if you really want speed, you want to swap to battery-backed RAM or similar. Jun 06 00:38:34 (which is designed for the sort of random-access treatment swapping needs) Jun 06 00:41:00 does battery backed ram exist? Jun 06 00:41:58 Yes. Jun 06 00:42:31 I haven't seen any in the shops in a couple years, but it used to be common with PATA and PCI interfaces. Jun 06 00:42:43 pata... Jun 06 00:43:05 I suspect someone has put together some SATA or USB devices like this, although they may only be available by special order. Jun 06 00:44:45 Ah, The Acord ANS-9010 apparently goes up to 64GB. You can't use this for real memory, but it makes for decent swap, if you have that sort of performance requirement (gamers, heavily-loaded servers, etc.) Jun 06 00:44:57 for now, i have a 4gig CF spinning disk with a usb attachment Jun 06 00:45:01 that will work for swap Jun 06 00:45:48 hitachi 4g microdrive Jun 06 00:45:50 Depends on the disk. Some of the early microdrives were *really* slow. Jun 06 00:45:57 how about that instead. wee bit less expensive Jun 06 00:46:06 Oh, once Hitachi had the "microdrive" brand, most were fairly good. Jun 06 00:46:48 thats the one i have Jun 06 00:47:59 uave a virgin 11.04 image now Jun 06 00:48:44 And did you ever get the bluetooth dialog similar to the one I posted? Jun 06 00:49:32 just getting ready to try the image Jun 06 00:49:36 had to burn it first Jun 06 00:50:14 seems like the ubuntu shutdown from the upper right ui turned into a logoff user Jun 06 00:50:23 had to logback in, get shell and shutdown manually Jun 06 00:52:47 persia: are you on a pandaboard Jun 06 00:52:56 and seeing bluetooth options? Jun 06 00:57:52 My panda is currently headless. Jun 06 00:58:28 I did see bluetooth on it back when it was connected to KVM Jun 06 00:58:47 I didn't test it, as I thought there was no antenna (failed to see the obvious antenna on the board) Jun 06 01:11:42 i didnt see it. had to ask Jun 06 02:13:28 persia: i have reinstalled a fresh 11.04, and i get no such options in my bluetooth menu :( Jun 06 02:30:04 nope. no bt menu like the help pages infer. guess there is a issue with pandaboard **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 06 02:59:57 2011