**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 10 02:59:57 2011 Aug 10 11:02:07 has anyone tried running libvirt on oneiric on the arm? Aug 10 11:04:30 zul, did it build yet ? Aug 10 11:04:36 yesterday it failed Aug 10 11:04:52 i tried a local build but that failed even earlier Aug 10 11:05:03 ogra_: im using an older version i think 0.9.2-4ubuntu7 Aug 10 11:05:18 right, with yesterdays upload it FTBFS Aug 10 11:17:19 ogra_: really? grrr Aug 10 11:56:16 ogra_, hey, is there any minimal (ie. less than 200mb headless) image for natty? Aug 10 11:56:26 * robclark looking for link for recovering busybox user Aug 10 11:56:51 sure wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP Aug 10 11:57:18 thx Aug 10 11:58:11 ogra_, but headless img is still quite large (by busybox standards).. Aug 10 11:58:17 I thought there was something smaller.. Aug 10 11:58:48 there is ubuntu-core in oneiric, thats just 35M Aug 10 11:59:24 the natty ones are around 200M Aug 10 11:59:37 ok.. then I guess oneiric it is Aug 10 11:59:41 note though, ubuntu-core is just a rootfs Aug 10 12:00:06 http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/releases/oneiric/alpha-3/ Aug 10 12:00:24 and give feedback to infinity, its his baby :) Aug 10 12:00:39 that is fine.. it is for a kernel developer Aug 10 12:01:30 well, there is no user creation or system configuration at all, you need to do all of it manually Aug 10 12:01:50 I think that is fine for someone coming from busybox ;-) Aug 10 12:01:54 k Aug 10 12:01:57 :) Aug 10 12:02:25 hmm, don't see the ubuntu-core img.. and looks like alpha-2 is gone.. Aug 10 12:02:37 just use the link above Aug 10 12:02:46 http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/releases/oneiric/alpha-3/ Aug 10 12:03:00 its not an image, its a tarball Aug 10 12:03:04 yeah, yeah.. but either I'm blind or there still isn't anything smaller.. Aug 10 12:03:06 hmm, ok.. Aug 10 12:03:21 * ogra_ sees 35M next to the tarball file Aug 10 12:03:58 hmm.. I search for "tar" and don't even find any match on the page Aug 10 12:04:34 ahh, wait, wrong url Aug 10 12:04:34 using the same link ? Aug 10 12:04:38 aha Aug 10 12:04:40 nm, my bad Aug 10 12:05:18 robclark: have you tried the linaro nano images? Aug 10 12:05:40 hmm, no Aug 10 12:06:26 amitk, linaro nano images, one can still 'sudo apt-get install'? Aug 10 12:08:15 robclark: yes Aug 10 12:08:22 robclark: they are stripped down headless Aug 10 12:08:27 robclark: https://wiki.linaro.org/Cycles/1108/Release#Developers_and_Community_Builds Aug 10 12:08:28 ok, cool.. Aug 10 12:10:14 ogra_: it would be interesting to know the ubuntu-core and nano and combine them Aug 10 12:10:24 ogra_: *know the difference between Aug 10 13:06:00 hello, i've a question. i don't really need gdm and gnome on my pandaboard, so i would like to be able to run startx as a user on boot, instead of getting gdm start. how can i do that? Aug 10 13:13:52 ogra_: hey. what's the ubuntu core image exactly? Aug 10 13:18:22 LPhas, yes you can Aug 10 13:24:57 ndec, it is not an image, it is close to what you would get by using debootstrap to create a chroot Aug 10 13:25:24 just a tarred up chroot without any setup or configuration Aug 10 13:26:09 how is it built? Aug 10 13:26:34 using live-build like all other images Aug 10 13:26:50 which packages are installed? ubuntu-minimal? Aug 10 13:27:07 less i think, aks infinity or look at the manifest files of the daily Aug 10 13:27:40 ndec: More or less debootstrap --minbase ... Which is a LOT less than ubuntu-minimal. Aug 10 13:27:49 ndec: And I suspect I'll strip it down further at some point. Aug 10 13:28:14 ok. what's the purpose of this image, well tarball Aug 10 13:28:41 and what's the uncompressed size on SD? Aug 10 13:29:17 It's for people to build their own random systems around. Tiny rootfses as a starting point is a pretty common use case in the (pseudo-)embedded space. Aug 10 13:29:25 Honestly, it's something I except most people to ignore. ;) Aug 10 13:29:30 yeah Aug 10 13:29:36 But it can be handy at times (I installed my ac100 with it). Aug 10 13:29:48 way to much effort to actually make it proper Aug 10 13:29:50 Uncompressed size right now is 110M or so? I think? Aug 10 13:30:08 wow, that big ? Aug 10 13:30:16 ogra_: Well, making it "work" it just a kernel, a bootloader, and setting up /etc/{hosts,resolv.conf} Aug 10 13:30:23 But making it useful is a bit more effort for most. :P Aug 10 13:30:44 creating a user, making sure tz and locale are correct etc Aug 10 13:30:55 * infinity nods. Aug 10 13:31:03 loopback networking too ... Aug 10 13:31:06 etc Aug 10 13:31:23 * ogra_ always forgets half of it unless he has to implement it somewhere Aug 10 13:31:43 siji, thank you... how? Aug 10 13:32:50 i am one of these guys that make custom derived ubuntu images , hence my interest ;-) Aug 10 13:36:00 ndec, well, better use the server image as a base or so Aug 10 13:36:46 ogra_: Oh, and it's about 96M now, not 110. Apparently. Aug 10 13:37:14 i am just wanted to make sure i know what it is.. for now, i have been quite happy with the regular desktop images. as i told you in the past we 'chroot' them to install our packages so that it becomes a custom pre installed image. and it's been enough for now Aug 10 13:37:15 yeah, i think i remember 80 from some years ago using minbase ... Aug 10 13:37:28 And the "which image to use" question depends on what you intend to do with it. If you want it to have an installer, core's probably not for you. Aug 10 13:37:28 i guess if we dropped all the drm libs it will be around that again Aug 10 13:38:19 core is for people who start from scratch, build a "perfect" gold image of exactly what they want, and then burn it to each device on its way out the door. Aug 10 13:38:23 That sort of use case. Aug 10 13:38:39 Like I said, pretty common in the (semi-)embedded space, pretty rare in the rest of the world these days. Aug 10 13:41:31 * ogra_ builds the first ac100 rootfs Aug 10 13:41:45 lets see if infinity's tarball handling in live-buildd works :) Aug 10 13:41:50 *live-build Aug 10 13:43:14 Define "works". It's pretty sketchy. ;) Aug 10 13:43:41 infinity: are you talking to the linaro team where they are doing nano images? Aug 10 13:44:15 amitk: Oddly enough, "nano" images never came up during the week I was actually in the same room with them. Aug 10 13:44:54 infinity: that is why irc is so much better ;) Aug 10 13:45:56 infinity, well, i just run "ARCHES=armel+ac100 buildlive ubuntu daily-preinstalled" on antimony ... if a vmlinuz, rootfs and initrd come out at the rearend i call that "works" :) Aug 10 13:47:09 ogra_: That doesn't sound like it would produce a tarball. Aug 10 13:47:50 infinity, why not? for ac100 the filesystem is defined as plain Aug 10 13:48:07 it should just dtrt if i didnt misunderstand the code Aug 10 13:48:39 Well, assuming buildlive has any concept of any of that. Aug 10 13:48:45 and it didnt fail yet Aug 10 13:48:53 i added it to buildlive, yes Aug 10 13:50:12 It might just work, then. I'll be pleasantly surprised. :) Aug 10 13:50:18 (if a build survives 30min it usually finishes ... i'm 20min in) Aug 10 13:50:37 Oh, it'll finish on the buildd side, no issues. I'm more curious about what happens after that. Aug 10 13:50:48 nothing yet Aug 10 13:51:12 i only call buildlive atm, debian-cd doesnt have any post processing code yet Aug 10 13:51:23 But I guess I did hook support for plain into find/download-live-filesystem and such, so it should probably DTRT. Aug 10 13:51:38 i sould only find a tarball, initrd and kernel in the right dir under /srv/cdimage ... Aug 10 13:52:09 if it doesnt i'll fix it (thats why i'm doing this testbuild atm) Aug 10 13:52:14 Heh. Aug 10 13:53:45 the live-build documentation is nearly unusable imho Aug 10 13:54:02 There's documentation? Aug 10 13:54:14 man live-build or live-build -h doesnt get you any info Aug 10 13:54:15 (Yeah, it's awful) Aug 10 13:54:19 please any idea on how to execute startx as a user on boot? Aug 10 13:54:24 only the sub-script manpages will Aug 10 13:54:33 LPhas: You mean manually? Aug 10 13:54:50 no Aug 10 13:54:52 use a display manager and configure autologin ... Aug 10 13:54:53 automatically Aug 10 13:54:57 is there a way, given a node in /dev, to lookup more information about that device? Aug 10 13:55:12 ogra_, why should i use a display manager? O_O Aug 10 13:55:28 because you want x to function properly :) Aug 10 13:55:30 i.e. some function F('/dev/foo') that gives info such as: that's a usb device, or that's a tty Aug 10 13:55:31 Because DMs do autologin already. Aug 10 13:55:46 basically i want to do what with the old good init i do with Aug 10 13:55:46 x:5:once:/bin/su - -- PREFERRED_USER -l -c '/usr/bin/startx /dev/null 2>&1' Aug 10 13:55:50 and also care for setting up the envioronment Aug 10 13:56:09 LPhas, so just do the same with upstart then Aug 10 13:56:16 i can't understand upstart Aug 10 13:56:25 i don't know bash Aug 10 13:56:33 LPhas, if you are using ubuntu Aug 10 13:57:03 LPhas: /etc/init/tty*.conf ... Change one to do what you want instead of spawn getty. Aug 10 13:57:03 you can do autologin by adding exec /sbin/mingetty --autologin exnxt tty1 --Only for Console AutoLogin Aug 10 13:57:51 infinity, let's try Aug 10 13:58:35 "exnxt-->username" Aug 10 13:59:35 siji, this look to be console autologin Aug 10 13:59:57 LPhas, just use what you used before for startx Aug 10 14:00:08 exec bin/su - -- PREFERRED_USER -l -c '/usr/bin/startx Aug 10 14:00:10 err Aug 10 14:00:15 exec /bin/su - -- PREFERRED_USER -l -c '/usr/bin/startx Aug 10 14:00:22 that should just work Aug 10 14:00:54 though i dont think infinity is right, you cant use the tty.conf scripts, they start on the wrong event so you might miss bots in the system Aug 10 14:01:06 s/bots/bits/ Aug 10 14:01:22 ogra_: gdm starts before tty* in our usual setup, it should be fine. Aug 10 14:01:40 ogra_: (Try it sometime, boot your laptop and when GDM comes up, hit the consoles, getty's still not running) Aug 10 14:01:54 start on (filesystem Aug 10 14:01:54 and started dbus Aug 10 14:01:54 and (drm-device-added card0 PRIMARY_DEVICE_FOR_DISPLAY=1 Aug 10 14:01:54 or stopped udevtrigger)) Aug 10 14:01:54 stop on runlevel [016] Aug 10 14:01:54 emits starting-dm Aug 10 14:02:03 you will likely need all that Aug 10 14:02:09 especially the emits Aug 10 14:02:19 since other scripts look for it Aug 10 14:02:50 ogra_, you mean modifying tty*.conf is not the right method Aug 10 14:03:06 i mean that tty.conf likely has the wrong events Aug 10 14:03:11 ok Aug 10 14:03:24 here am doing some experiments on the same Aug 10 14:03:45 None of the DM or session events should matter if your goal is to have a single X. Aug 10 14:03:46 Trying to run XBMC in autostart Aug 10 14:04:01 well, the above snippet is actually from a display manager .conf file Aug 10 14:04:05 If you have other services listening for those events, they'll fail regardless. :P Aug 10 14:04:14 ogra_: Yes, I know, but "startx" isn't a DM. Aug 10 14:04:29 ogra_: And it doesn't actually provide session or dm services. Aug 10 14:04:40 * infinity shrugs. Aug 10 14:04:46 thats why you need the "started dbus" event Aug 10 14:05:05 Only if you use dbus. Aug 10 14:05:12 might be that you have a started dbus anyway by reacing runlevel2 Aug 10 14:05:15 (He was saying he was going GNOME-free and the whole nine yards) Aug 10 14:05:20 which nearly all desktops do today Aug 10 14:05:30 oh, ok Aug 10 14:05:39 if there is no desktop, dbus might not matter Aug 10 14:05:45 Still, as I said, our current tty stuff (that just runs on [23]) starts well after our DMs do, so... Aug 10 14:05:49 It's probably fine. :) Aug 10 14:05:56 but if you use any app that needs a session bus you are screwed Aug 10 14:06:28 ogra_, it seems like my prblm is also same Aug 10 14:06:46 i have made autologin by modifying tty1.conf Aug 10 14:07:09 then in my DM (xfce) created a *.desktop file for autostart XBMC Aug 10 14:07:47 and XBMC starts working but, while I pressed any keys in keyboard the application is hanging Aug 10 14:07:57 ogra_: You lose. Aug 10 14:08:01 The following packages have unmet dependencies: ubuntuone-client-gnome : Depends: ubuntuone-client (= 1.7.0-0ubuntu2) but 1.7.1-0ubuntu1 is to be installed unity : Depends: unity-common (= 4.6.0-0ubuntu2) but 4.6.0-0ubuntu4 is to be installed Aug 10 14:08:03 but mouse is working fine Aug 10 14:08:18 infinity, i dont ! i have a logfile now !!! :) Aug 10 14:08:23 ogra_: Heh. Aug 10 14:09:56 BAH !!! Aug 10 14:10:21 * ogra_ curses the archive being totally out of sync Aug 10 14:10:32 no way to build test images with that ... grmbl Aug 10 14:11:05 ubuntu-one ... and unity are both broken Aug 10 14:11:07 sigh Aug 10 14:12:25 They both build quickly enough. Aug 10 14:12:30 Or are they FTBFS? Aug 10 14:12:31 * infinity looks. Aug 10 14:12:47 i dont think they are Aug 10 14:13:04 unity was just uploaded today ... arch all should already be ready ... any is missing as usual Aug 10 14:13:06 unity is. :/ Aug 10 14:13:12 sigh Aug 10 14:13:23 so no way for me to make FF with ac100 Aug 10 14:13:30 Oh, because of libnux skew. Aug 10 14:13:31 FFS. Aug 10 14:13:40 yeah, as usual Aug 10 14:13:41 On armel and PPC. Aug 10 14:13:47 not sure whats up with ubuntuone Aug 10 14:13:56 And boost... Aug 10 14:14:02 it already caused failed images last night Aug 10 14:14:29 is there a way to build server without preinstalled pool ? Aug 10 14:15:01 * ogra_ ponders to move on with server images to get around that ... but i dont want to waste time on a 300MB pool Aug 10 14:15:04 Not without editing auto/config currently. Aug 10 14:15:09 hmm, k Aug 10 14:15:29 Not sure that's a feature I care to add, since the only time you'd want that is when testing locally... Aug 10 14:15:35 And for local testing, you can edit the config. :P Aug 10 14:15:43 oh, i actually wonder ... Aug 10 14:15:54 ---what happens if i use ubuntu-core as a flavour Aug 10 14:16:24 would i still get a kernel/initrd with the tarball ? Aug 10 14:16:29 * ogra_ tries for laughs Aug 10 14:16:49 lets see if i kill antimony with that :P Aug 10 14:16:56 You really won't. Aug 10 14:17:00 Get kernels, I mean. Aug 10 14:17:09 Actually... You might. Aug 10 14:17:15 why ? depends if the subarch code overrides your plain code Aug 10 14:17:20 Since core defines the no kernel business before the subarches happen. Aug 10 14:17:28 yeah Aug 10 14:17:33 i was hoping so Aug 10 14:17:46 what does -core end up with for root ? Aug 10 14:17:54 locked or just no passwd ? Aug 10 14:18:02 No password. Aug 10 14:18:11 I think. Aug 10 14:18:13 like debian then ? Aug 10 14:18:25 To be fair, I'm not positive. Aug 10 14:18:26 because i think that is modified in ubuntu Aug 10 14:18:35 Actually, it's probably just locked out of the box. Aug 10 14:18:39 so if you dont override that default it will be locked Aug 10 14:18:44 I dunno, I use it as a chroot, what's a password? :) Aug 10 14:18:50 heh Aug 10 14:19:15 (And it's meaningless as an installation image too, since part of installation is creating a user and/or setting a password) Aug 10 14:19:23 So, yeah. Probably locked, but never checked. Aug 10 14:20:35 I wonder what "--linux-packages=none --linux-flavours=ac100" will do to live-build's tiny brain. Aug 10 14:20:39 Cause that's what you're going to end up with. Aug 10 14:20:59 am i ? Aug 10 14:21:04 Should do. Aug 10 14:21:10 Plus explcitely installing the packages anyway. Aug 10 14:21:11 So. Aug 10 14:21:15 The tarball will be right. Aug 10 14:21:21 I'm just curious how it will handle those two options. Aug 10 14:21:25 We'll find out. Aug 10 14:21:28 well, the subarch code uses add_package Aug 10 14:21:29 For science! Aug 10 14:21:56 Yeah, subarch uses add_package, which gets the files on disk. But then later, you get --linux-flavours=$FLAVOUR if $FLAVOUR is set. Aug 10 14:22:05 For core, that's normally none, but it got set to SUBARCH. Aug 10 14:22:20 But core also set --linux-packages to none to work around some other misfeature. Aug 10 14:22:33 And I'm too lazy to trace and see what happens when those two conflict. :) Aug 10 14:22:39 * ogra_ wants livecd.sh back ! Aug 10 14:22:43 Yeah, me too. Aug 10 14:22:53 silly complex crap Aug 10 14:23:25 I can't help but feel like we've mostly reimplemented livecd-rootfs in auto/{config,build}, and we're just using live-build as a super complex debootstrap wrapper. :/ Aug 10 14:23:28 But whatever. Aug 10 14:23:41 thats what we do, yeah Aug 10 14:23:44 Maybe we'll move more and more into the core functionality and work around fewer and fewer misfeatures over time and learn to love it. Aug 10 14:23:57 i think that was colins initial plan Aug 10 14:24:07 His plan was to learn to love it? :) Aug 10 14:25:27 lol Aug 10 14:25:41 no, to move livecd-rootfs into live-build over time Aug 10 14:32:23 are there any enviroment differences between lauching a program with Alt-F2 (run program) and starting a gnome-terminal and launching from it? Aug 10 14:35:55 bug 823971 Aug 10 14:35:55 Launchpad bug 823971 in ac100 "Enhancement: Suggestion to use jffs2 Filesystem" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/823971 Aug 10 14:39:34 ogra_: Oh, the ubuntuone-client-gnome thing isn't arm arcive skew. Aug 10 14:39:50 ogra_: The ubuntuone kids just completely removed client-gnome. :P Aug 10 14:39:55 ogra_: So, time for some seed updates. Aug 10 14:40:05 s/arcive/archive/ Aug 10 14:40:19 Or... Aug 10 14:40:27 - Removed ubuntuone-client-gnome deps and binary packaging, as it was Aug 10 14:40:28 moved out to separate project upstream. Aug 10 14:40:38 Maybe not time for seed updates, maybe time to go hunting through the NEW queue... Aug 10 14:40:42 * infinity hunts. Aug 10 14:41:01 why the heck dont theys notify anyone ? Aug 10 14:41:03 sigh Aug 10 14:42:13 And I see no new sources... Aug 10 14:42:21 So, we just have broken image builds. Aug 10 14:42:22 Yay. Aug 10 14:43:54 you shoudl put yourself in the notification list on cdimage :P Aug 10 14:45:37 sycamore.buildd finished at Wed Aug 10 14:42:05 UTC 2011 (failed) Aug 10 14:45:43 *sniff* Aug 10 14:46:00 (that was core) Aug 10 14:47:16 hmm, i dont get the prompt back Aug 10 14:51:25 infinity, heh, so it finishesd and i see it installing abootimg, linux-ac100 and friends ... but it fails with "ls: cannot access vmlinu?-*: no such file or directory" Aug 10 14:51:48 so i guess it wipes /boot somewhere Aug 10 14:54:10 hmm Aug 10 14:54:39 * ogra_ wonders if running find on /srv/cdimage.ubuntu.com/scratch/ was a bad idea ... runs since 10min now Aug 10 15:03:39 hmm Aug 10 15:03:47 i dont really see where it removes vmlinuz Aug 10 15:07:48 ah Aug 10 15:07:50 got it Aug 10 15:07:52 hmm Aug 10 15:08:35 so --linux-flavours=none doesnt seem to be set, else it wouldnt move to the ls that fails Aug 10 15:10:16 oh Aug 10 15:10:20 KVERS="$( (cd "binary/$INITFS"; ls vmlinu?-*) | sed -n "s/^vmlinu.-\\([^-]*-[^-]*-$FLAVOUR\\)$/\\1/p" )" Aug 10 15:11:03 do i misread that line or does it actually expect /vmlinuz-$vers-$flavour instead of /boot/vmlinuz-.... Aug 10 15:15:21 ogra_: No, cause INITFS should be boot. Aug 10 15:15:36 oh, ok Aug 10 15:15:36 Oh, depending on what LB_INITRAMFS is set to... Aug 10 15:15:54 Which I'm not sure about for core, since it has none, so I probably didn't follow that codepath. Aug 10 15:15:56 ah, that might not be set correctly given i do something weird :) Aug 10 15:16:01 What, with core not actually requiring a kernel at all. Aug 10 15:16:18 well, i see it being generated in the log Aug 10 15:16:29 so /boot should have vmlinuz and initrd files Aug 10 15:16:42 it just seems like lb doesnt know about that :) Aug 10 15:16:56 Right, but INITFS is set based on LB_INITRAMFS and lord knows what that's set to. Aug 10 15:17:29 heh Aug 10 15:17:48 well, its sad to see it getting that far and then fail Aug 10 15:18:02 its really in its very last stages there Aug 10 15:18:25 Oh, wait, no. Aug 10 15:18:32 *scratch head* Aug 10 15:18:40 INITFS is boot for core, that's fine. Aug 10 15:18:41 But... Aug 10 15:18:48 That's not the boot you think it is. Aug 10 15:19:31 well, indeed i want the boot where linux-image unpacked vmlinuz to :) Aug 10 15:19:55 * infinity tries to sort out where these kenrels get copied around... Aug 10 15:20:24 I suspect it's just live-build not copying kernels out because of the linux-*=whatever confusion. Aug 10 15:20:34 So, ultimately... Don't use core for this. :P Aug 10 15:20:42 yeah Aug 10 15:20:43 Or test locally with a hacked-up auto/config Aug 10 15:20:49 but we dont have headless either anymore Aug 10 15:20:58 hmm, or do we Aug 10 15:21:00 * ogra_ looks Aug 10 15:21:01 We don't. Aug 10 15:21:07 But testing this on the buildds seems silly anyway. Aug 10 15:21:28 You get much better turnaround testing locally on x86, then doing one final local test on arm. Aug 10 15:21:48 Well, assuming you have a reasonably close or local mirror.. Aug 10 15:21:53 i need to know the structure of the dump the buildd gets me to move on Aug 10 15:21:58 thats all i'm after atm Aug 10 15:22:27 and thats why i do it on the buildd, i surely wont run a local debian-cd to do debian-cd development for the post-boot scripts Aug 10 15:22:37 In theory, it should look the same as a mix of core and live. Aug 10 15:22:49 That is, the rootfs will look like cores output, but the kernels should look the same as what live's doing. Aug 10 15:23:02 i dont need core, i just tried it because desktop is blocking me atm Aug 10 15:23:06 * infinity nods. Aug 10 15:23:13 i will do server, that just takes longer Aug 10 15:23:29 but should get me building images and accurate output files Aug 10 15:23:43 * infinity spots a thinko in his auto/build ... Aug 10 15:24:00 Or, rather, a place where I have a (correct) hardcoded value that should probably be a variable, to match everything else. Aug 10 15:24:03 But harmless. Aug 10 15:24:40 * ogra_ fires off an ac100 server build Aug 10 15:26:41 EEEKK !!!!!!!!! Aug 10 15:26:53 That's not a good sound. Aug 10 15:26:55 building ubuntu-server gets me a germinat traceback in the log !!!! Aug 10 15:27:41 I had considered making redirecting the germinate call, but I figure it might be handy for debugging some day. Aug 10 15:27:46 s/making // Aug 10 15:28:11 well, you need to proceed the seed somehow to get the ship seed, no ? Aug 10 15:28:14 The logs aren't meant to be pretty anyway. :P Aug 10 15:28:40 Well, yes. We need to run germinate. Aug 10 15:28:48 i dont care about the logs, my build dies after about 10sec with germinate failing Aug 10 15:28:54 Err, really? Aug 10 15:29:00 giving me a key error Aug 10 15:29:09 'usb-langsupport' Aug 10 15:29:17 Local, or on a buildd? Aug 10 15:29:22 take a look at sycamores logs Aug 10 15:29:37 ubuntu-server-ac100 Aug 10 15:30:55 Curious. Last night's server-omap4 ran fine. Aug 10 15:31:05 yeah Aug 10 15:31:13 seeds might have changed today Aug 10 15:31:37 A local germinate run is just as broken, though. Aug 10 15:31:45 So, someone just broke the seeds, I guess. Aug 10 15:31:46 key error smells like it Aug 10 15:32:23 Or. What? Aug 10 15:32:30 * infinity blinks. Aug 10 15:33:30 ogra_: i think i asked you already... but i forgot ;-) when using unity2D which WM is used? metacity? Aug 10 15:33:38 yep Aug 10 15:33:43 thx Aug 10 15:33:43 Something on lillypilly just went very pear-shaped. Aug 10 15:33:55 you broke it ! Aug 10 15:34:18 davidm: hi there. any news on the global availability of ARM PPA Aug 10 15:34:21 Or I can't type. Aug 10 15:34:34 There, that's better. Aug 10 15:34:36 Yes, broken seeds. Aug 10 15:34:58 ndec, none yet, IS is working on intergrating the first builder Aug 10 15:35:25 yep Aug 10 15:35:29 alison broke them Aug 10 15:39:29 ogra_: Yeah, I see the commit that's broken, but it's not immediately obvious to me what broke it. :P Aug 10 15:39:35 ogra_: You found the issue? Aug 10 15:39:56 nope, i pinged colin, i dont really know about all the inheritance stuff Aug 10 15:40:37 it seems ot be a completely new seed Aug 10 15:40:49 ogra_: Do we still need the mem= lines on panda? I haven't seen any issues lately, and the netinstall doesn't add them. Aug 10 15:40:50 It is. Aug 10 15:41:08 GrueMaster, we need them for ducati (multimedia) Aug 10 15:41:16 so we still need them on the desktop Aug 10 15:41:21 server, not so much Aug 10 15:41:25 Ah. Aug 10 15:42:00 ducati requires a memory hole at the right place iirc (we should check if thats still at the right position nowadays though) Aug 10 15:43:50 so you don't want to use the server image for transcoding video? Aug 10 15:44:32 if people use it like that they should adjust boot.script :) Aug 10 15:45:06 If there's a piece of hardware on this that requires the memory hole, we should have it there regardless of installation type... Aug 10 15:45:31 we should update boot.script in the ducati package as postinst and force a flash-kernel and reboot ;-) Aug 10 15:45:33 (We should probably just have the kernel doing it by default) Aug 10 15:45:50 infinity: it's a s/w limitation, not h/w Aug 10 15:46:01 ndec: How so? Aug 10 15:46:36 we reserve come carve out memory for a special h/w accelerator, the physical address reserved in hard coded in the kernel... Aug 10 15:47:02 None of that sounds like a software limitation to me... Aug 10 15:48:01 well, the h/w does not require the memory hole. it's our s/w design that requires it Aug 10 15:48:37 As in, we could be talking to it directly somehow, instead of mmapping it in system RAm? Aug 10 15:48:44 I would have assumed this is just how it's designed to be done. Aug 10 15:49:21 Either way, my point was that if the hardware's there, and if that addressing technique is our only way to talk to it, we should just have the hole on by default and be done with it. Aug 10 15:50:24 i would tend to agree... the counter argument is that you are wasting 50Mb of RAM for the server image, and that might be important too... Aug 10 15:50:59 * infinity shrugs. Aug 10 15:51:29 omap4 isn't a serious server platform anyway. Losing 50MB to make sure all the hardware is doing the right thing from userspace's POV feels right to me. Aug 10 15:52:12 And, as you point out, omap4 as a media server is probably a more likely use-case than as an HPC cluster. Aug 10 15:52:18 Just a guess. ;) Aug 10 15:52:48 i personally don't care too much (now) about the omap4 server image anyways ;-) Aug 10 15:53:02 Well, it's just a proof-of-concept anyway. Aug 10 15:53:20 But I could see repurposing my Panda as a set-top-box once I get "real" ARM server kit in here for other server testing. Aug 10 15:54:57 and guess what if you had installed the server image *without* the memory hole in bootargs, and convert it as set-top-box then video won't work because the hole is for the video accelerator! Aug 10 15:55:46 pfft, details Aug 10 15:56:59 But yes, I still think the boot args are a silly, messy, and error-prone waste of space. If the kernel knows where that hole should be, we should just have the kernel set it up by default. Aug 10 15:57:20 And people could use a mem= line to override and undo that if they really know what they're doing and care deeply about the 50MB. Aug 10 15:59:41 rsalveti: Thought on the above? Aug 10 16:02:41 * rsalveti reading Aug 10 16:38:49 I like that idea. We are limited to the amount of characters on the kernel cmdline, removing the two mem= lines helps considerably. Aug 10 16:39:44 (my cmdline length issue is PXE boot netinstall w/ preseed mainly). Aug 10 16:42:35 yeah Aug 10 17:00:49 can we setup the memory map from the kernel? Aug 10 17:12:34 ogra_: infinity: we've being using with the 50MB hole at natty even without any working multimedia modules ;-) Aug 10 17:12:53 for me it feels ok to just remove it and use the whole 1gb for a server image Aug 10 17:13:12 if someone would like to setup the ti ppa, it'll probably need to do it by hand anyway Aug 10 17:13:22 rsalveti, well, the discussion was about moving the option as a default into the kernel instead of having a cmdline option for it Aug 10 17:13:26 so we just document the changes at the boot.args and be ok with it Aug 10 17:14:23 this feels wrong Aug 10 17:14:36 as it's a software limitation Aug 10 17:17:25 you should be able to override the default with your own mem settings indeed Aug 10 17:18:44 but having the hole as a default option seems wrong for me Aug 10 17:18:57 default should be everything Aug 10 17:19:16 as it's the user choice to use ducati and so on Aug 10 17:19:38 as it's not free software Aug 10 17:19:57 but we would default to make the device non functional Aug 10 17:20:12 imho all HW on the board should work by default Aug 10 17:20:48 ogra_: but this is a sw limitation :-) and to enable it you have to use closed source components Aug 10 17:21:07 that's why enabling it by default seems wrong for me Aug 10 17:21:26 well, the closed source components wont work if it isnt set Aug 10 17:21:43 are we having the closed source components for oneiric? Aug 10 17:22:00 we will Aug 10 17:22:12 we didn't have for natty, and all images have the useless 50mb hole Aug 10 17:22:13 likely post release but its planned Aug 10 17:23:36 problem is that we can't change the bootargs easily Aug 10 17:23:42 otherwise this wouldn't be a problem Aug 10 17:23:52 once the user installed the extra packages Aug 10 17:24:29 but for a normal user, wanting to use the server image or just using it with free software, making him lose 50mb for nothing seems wrong :-) Aug 10 17:35:40 It's just 50MB. Aug 10 17:35:59 I'd rather lose 50MB that no one will even notice or care about than have people complain that something doesn't work right. Aug 10 17:36:16 And server on this hardware is a proof-of-concept, not a finely-tuned machine. :P Aug 10 18:42:09 Oh my, feature freeze is here already. How time flies when you miss the beginning of a cycle. Aug 10 21:34:32 hey, where can I find a listing of the Canonical sprints? Aug 10 21:34:39 I just found out there was one going on here in Austin Aug 10 21:34:43 (yesterday( Aug 10 21:41:06 martyn: They are on an internal wiki and only by invitation to outside members of the community. Sorry. Aug 10 21:41:27 Ahhh .. okay, I thought they would be up on Fridge Aug 10 21:41:28 thanks Aug 10 21:43:56 They are mainly for us to get face time with our coworkers. Most companies that work out of offices don't have the collaboration issues that working from home does (nor do they have some of the freedoms - like sitting in on a meeting in your pajamas). Aug 10 21:45:00 They're great for cross-team pollination of ideas/solutions. Aug 10 22:02:02 Yep, and in the case of the Austin sprint .. a great way to get exposed to some heat.. ( Aug 10 22:02:07 it's 107F today :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 11 02:59:56 2011