**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 26 02:59:56 2011
Sep 26 04:05:01 <i-node> helo
Sep 26 04:05:04 <i-node> hello*
Sep 26 06:42:33 <twb> Does qemu-system-arm work *at all* on lucid?
Sep 26 06:53:07 <twb> Hm, same behaviour on sid
Sep 26 07:31:48 <twb> I give up, qemu-system-arm won't work for me on lucid, and the only non-lucid host I have, is a shitty little Atom netbook (where it works, but unbearably slowly)
Sep 26 07:32:17 <twb> I will just reflash the TF101 again with ubuntu so that I have something to actually do compiles on
Sep 26 17:37:50 <MMlosh> Grr..  the Oneiric kernel froze again..  (pandaboard with 2 DVB-T tuners atached)
Sep 26 19:27:49 <Daviey> janimo: Hey!  Can you confirm the bump is correct on linux-ac100?
Sep 26 19:27:53 <Daviey> New package: linux-ac100 (universe) [2.6.38-1.3 → 2.6.38-1000.1]
Sep 26 19:28:03 <janimo> Daviey, yes
Sep 26 19:28:14 <Daviey> janimo: What is the reasoning?
Sep 26 19:28:18 <janimo> I am about to upload the linux-meta-ac100 so it is in universe by tomorrow
Sep 26 19:28:36 <janimo> Daviey, I started with a new packaing using git
Sep 26 19:28:52 <janimo> and followed a tutorial and existing ubuntu/linaro numbering convention
Sep 26 19:29:01 <janimo> probably not needed in this case but I played it safe
Sep 26 19:29:15 <Daviey> janimo: I don't follow?  Where does it state jump to 1000?
Sep 26 19:29:24 <janimo> being my first time packaging a kernel by lots of trial and error eve
Sep 26 19:29:38 <janimo> Daviey, it doe snot, the linaro template I started with uses 1000.0
Sep 26 19:29:49 <janimo> and all linaro kernels use such large abi numbers afaik
Sep 26 19:29:55 <janimo> omap 1200, landing team ones 1400 etc
Sep 26 19:31:00 <Daviey> seems odd, but ok
Sep 26 19:31:23 <Daviey> infinity: ^^
Sep 26 19:32:32 <janimo> Daviey, tbh it seemed odd to me too, but if I were to question or dig into everything that seems odd to me in kernel packaging it would take me a lot more to get something ready
Sep 26 19:33:00 <janimo> not one of the tutorials were 100% correct or covered the various cases, jcrigby's one is the closest and best yet
Sep 26 19:33:36 <janimo> Daviey, at leats this package is now maintained in git and more or less in sync with how the kernel team and linaro manage their kernels
Sep 26 19:33:47 <infinity> That works for me.
Sep 26 19:33:57 <Daviey> janimo: heh, it's a black art that i don't understand either... The changelog generation blows me :)
Sep 26 19:33:57 <janimo> I even plan to upload it to the kernel repos so it is not only on my disk
Sep 26 19:34:39 <janimo> Daviey, I thought I understood everything about the changelog, when an innocent change in it (well version number addition _before_ the last one) tripped the ABI checker
Sep 26 19:34:48 <infinity> Would it surprise you to know that most of the kernel team doesn't know how the packages are built either? ;)
Sep 26 19:34:56 <infinity> A lot of that stuff is from BenC and I fiddling years ago.
Sep 26 19:35:12 <janimo> at which point I deferred work to next morning being an unexpected error after I thought I had ironed out all issues and built the package a few times already
Sep 26 19:35:21 <janimo> so I try to touch as little as possible
Sep 26 19:35:26 <infinity> The fact that it's survived is a testament to opaque code that no one wants to touch.
Sep 26 19:35:32 <Daviey> heh
Sep 26 19:35:33 <janimo> and learn more as I upload new revisions
Sep 26 19:36:24 <janimo> infinity, that would not surprise me in the least actually
Sep 26 19:36:36 <infinity> janimo: To fully understand it, you have to first understand Ben Collins.  After rooming with him at many conferences, I don't recommend it.
Sep 26 19:36:47 <janimo> and also it does not scale well
Sep 26 19:37:02 <janimo> would need many many conferences or very large rooms
Sep 26 19:37:03 <infinity> (That's not to say that I have anything against the guy, we're great friends, just warning that insanity may ensue)
Sep 26 19:37:46 <Daviey> infinity: I think you might want to room with lag.
Sep 26 19:38:28 <infinity> I don't need to corrupt any more Canonical employees, past, future, or present.
Sep 26 19:39:05 <infinity> For the good of the company, I should probably always room alone. :P
Sep 26 19:39:37 <Daviey> heh
Sep 26 19:39:51 <janimo> infinity, how selfless, you are.
Sep 26 19:40:07 <Daviey> infinity: I was more worried he'd corrupt you. :)
Sep 26 19:40:27 <infinity> Seems unlikely.
Sep 26 19:40:33 <infinity> But I'm always willing to be surprised.
Sep 26 19:41:15 <infinity> jcrigby: LINARO: always build debug packages
Sep 26 19:41:45 <infinity> jcrigby: ^-- From your recent uploads.  Don't we have that turned off for distro kernels (to avoid duplication of massive packages between -dbg and .ddeb)?
Sep 26 19:42:28 <jcrigby> crap
Sep 26 19:42:46 <jcrigby> that was a change for linaro ppa
Sep 26 19:42:51 <infinity> I figured.
Sep 26 19:42:56 <jcrigby> because we wanted the debug stuff
Sep 26 19:43:05 <jcrigby> infinity, ok educate me
Sep 26 19:43:11 <infinity> Because PPAs don't do ddebs, yes.  Longstanding feature request for that in LP. :P
Sep 26 19:43:33 <jcrigby> so my fix didn't fix because it still goes to ddeb
Sep 26 19:43:47 <jcrigby> it just always does it
Sep 26 19:43:49 <infinity> Oh, in which case, these are fine for the primary archive. ;)
Sep 26 19:43:54 <jcrigby> right
Sep 26 19:44:06 <infinity> And you still need a better fix for your PPA, I guess.
Sep 26 19:44:06 <jcrigby> so two wrongs make a right
Sep 26 19:44:21 <jcrigby> yes, I need to not do the rename to ddeb
Sep 26 19:44:30 <jcrigby> in ppa
Sep 26 19:44:47 <jcrigby> so the debug stuff will just stick around like a normal deb
Sep 26 19:45:05 <infinity> You can cheat and use archive_purpose to conditionally rename.
Sep 26 19:45:16 <infinity> I'm a bit shocked the default templates don't do that.
Sep 26 19:45:33 <jcrigby> you can tell me what the current stuff does
Sep 26 19:45:45 <jcrigby> it looks in / for some file
Sep 26 19:45:49 <jcrigby> let me look
Sep 26 19:46:04 <infinity>  /CurrentlyBuilding
Sep 26 19:46:09 <jcrigby> yes
Sep 26 19:46:27 <jcrigby> and uses that to decide if it is a local developer build or an archive build
Sep 26 19:46:42 <jcrigby> if that file exists it sets fullbuild or somesuch
Sep 26 19:46:50 <infinity> Kay, but if you check the value of it, you can get more in-depth.
Sep 26 19:46:55 <jcrigby> then later do_debug get set or not based on full_build
Sep 26 19:47:45 <janimo> infinity, jcrigby a meta package should just need a changelog bump and debian/rules will DTRT on build?
Sep 26 19:48:20 <infinity> janimo: Depends on the meta source.  But that's how most work.
Sep 26 19:49:03 <janimo> ok, this is ogra's ac100 meta. Should work as it has no magic besides the debian/ dir in it
Sep 26 19:49:14 <infinity> jcrigby: You can see in build logs that Purpose is actually set to a value in that file.
Sep 26 19:49:19 <jcrigby> ok so packages are ok except for crappy short changelog
Sep 26 19:49:25 <infinity> jcrigby: (Check the sbuild call for '--purpose='
Sep 26 19:49:37 <infinity> jcrigby: For instance for primary archive, it's --purpose=PRIMARY
Sep 26 19:49:38 <jcrigby> ahh
Sep 26 19:49:39 <janimo> infinity, linux-meta-ac100 uploaded, fingers crossed, etc
Sep 26 19:49:54 <infinity> jcrigby: For PPAs, it should be PPA, but double-check one of your build logs. :P
Sep 26 19:49:57 <jcrigby> wow, I need to hang out with infinity for a week of intense training
Sep 26 19:50:08 <jcrigby> ok, I'll do that
Sep 26 19:50:19 <jcrigby> infinity, is this documented anywhere?
Sep 26 19:50:29 <jcrigby> or just in package masters heads?
Sep 26 19:50:35 <infinity> jcrigby: *mumbles something about the launchpad source code*
Sep 26 19:50:48 <jcrigby> :)
Sep 26 19:50:51 <infinity> jcrigby: I'd be willing to bet that about 5 people know how this works, and 2 don't work here anymore.
Sep 26 19:56:20 <infinity> jcrigby / janimo : Kernels all accepted, after some very generous review.  May $diety have mercy on your souls if they all break. :P
Sep 26 19:57:24 * infinity really goes to find food this time.
Sep 26 19:58:06 <janimo> infinity, thanks
Sep 26 19:59:27 <infinity> jcrigby: Even for subarches like this where we're not building official images, it would be swell if, next cycle, you keep slightly more in sync.  Diffs that large a 2 weeks before RC are a bit scary.
Sep 26 19:59:39 <infinity> s/a 2/2/
Sep 26 20:01:29 <jcrigby> I agree
Sep 26 20:01:57 <jcrigby> I need to make the ubuntu upload part of my normal workflow even though we (linaro) consume kernels from ppa
Sep 26 20:05:44 <infinity> Certainly until we hit kernel freeze, anyway.
Sep 26 20:05:50 <infinity> Then you need to get picky and potentially fork.
Sep 26 20:30:42 <jcrigby> infinity, are you back from lunch
Sep 26 20:30:44 <jcrigby> ?
Sep 26 20:31:38 <infinity> jcrigby: I keep forgetting to start lunch.
Sep 26 20:31:40 <infinity> jcrigby: 'sup?
Sep 26 20:33:00 <jcrigby> so did I understand that I can look inside /currentlywhatever to figure out if I am ppa or normal or ...
Sep 26 20:33:09 <infinity> jcrigby: Yup.
Sep 26 20:33:42 <infinity> jcrigby: "Purpose: PPA" or "Purpose: PRIMARY" for PPA versus primary archive.  There are a few other possible values (PARTNER, etc), but those are probably the only two you care about.
Sep 26 20:34:02 <infinity> jcrigby: And no /CurrentlyBuilding at all can generally be assumed to be "user machine, or non-LP buildd".
Sep 26 20:34:08 <jcrigby> ok those two are all I need, thanks
Sep 26 20:34:12 <jcrigby> right
Sep 26 20:34:25 <jcrigby> thanks, I now need to go fix debug for ppa again
Sep 26 20:34:53 <jcrigby> but conditionaly so i don't break primary
Sep 26 20:35:10 <infinity> If and when we get around to merging the archive sbuild and the buildd sbuild, this might become more easily testable.
Sep 26 20:35:19 <jcrigby> sure
Sep 26 20:35:37 <infinity> And someone should probably hack up some CurrentlyBuilding support into pbuilder for similar "pretend I'm a buildd" testing reasons.
Sep 26 20:36:31 <Daviey> infinity: I started doing that for sbuild
Sep 26 20:36:35 <infinity> The upshot of that is that it would de-facto document it all.
Sep 26 20:36:53 <infinity> Daviey: You're not the only one. :P
Sep 26 20:37:19 <Daviey> infinity: CurrentlyBuilding support requires to know the component, which means it is network bound - or you have to delcare it at spawn, i guess?
Sep 26 20:37:36 <infinity> Daviey: On the buildds, it's declared when you start the job.
Sep 26 20:37:47 <infinity> Daviey: --component=foo --purpose=bar
Sep 26 20:38:07 <Daviey> yeah, but launchpad is lucky enough to know the compoent.
Sep 26 20:38:08 <Daviey> :)
Sep 26 20:38:13 * Daviey looks up what a compoent is
Sep 26 20:38:16 <infinity> Daviey: That's more than enough to get people to be able to match the archive behaviour for reproducibility.
Sep 26 20:38:58 <infinity> Daviey: I'd argue that if you don't know what component your source package is in, you probably shouldn't be uploading it. :P
Sep 26 20:39:04 <Daviey> infinity: Incidently, i came acorss a package which built fine in pbuilder and sbuild, but failed on the buildd's.  Grabbing the LP chroot, and throwing it into pbuilder allowed me to debug it
Sep 26 20:39:36 <Daviey> infinity: Well, my usecase was automated builds.. so thar! :)
Sep 26 20:40:12 <infinity> Daviey: Yeah, for doing automated rebuilds or something, you could still cheat with the apt Sources.gz and grep-dctrl or some such.
Sep 26 20:40:24 <infinity> Daviey: It wouldn't be up-to-the-minute accurate, but close enough.
Sep 26 20:40:51 <infinity> But you'd want that sort of logic in a wrapper, not in pbuilder/sbuild themselves.
Sep 26 20:41:00 <infinity> pbuilder and sbuild should just trust user input.
Sep 26 20:41:03 <infinity> Not be clever.
Sep 26 20:41:40 <Daviey> Oh aye.. that is what i was doing
Sep 26 20:43:22 <Daviey> infinity: Incidently, i'd like to steal LP's Architecture: $target handling.. Need to see if/how that is exposed via API.
Sep 26 20:43:46 <infinity> Hrm?
Sep 26 20:44:53 <infinity> Not sure I know which Arch handling you're referring to.
Sep 26 20:45:58 <infinity> You mean the part where it selects arch_indep for i386, and passes '-A' to sbuild?
Sep 26 20:48:37 <infinity> If so, that's exposed via the API.  See is_nominated_arch_indep at https://api.launchpad.net/devel/ubuntu/oneiric/i386
Sep 26 20:48:57 <infinity> Daviey: Was that what you were driving at? ---^
Sep 26 20:50:48 * infinity lunches for real this time.  Honest.
Sep 26 21:01:28 <Daviey> infinity: Well that yes, but also processing of linux-any, and the others
Sep 26 21:01:36 <Daviey> Although, not really an sbuild issue itself.
Sep 26 21:02:25 <Daviey> for each package
Sep 26 21:05:16 <infinity> Daviey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/463055/ <-- The patch that was applied to lp-buildd's sbuild to handle linux-any.
Sep 26 21:05:25 <infinity> Though, I'd assume the distro sbuild does the right thing anyway.
Sep 26 21:07:19 <Daviey> ah, nice
Sep 27 01:07:21 <brandini> chatty in here tonight
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Sep 27 02:59:57 2011