**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 14 02:59:57 2011 Oct 14 03:43:11 lilstevie: ping Oct 14 03:43:23 lilstevie: nag re send me known-good u-boot.bin Oct 14 08:24:57 lilstevie: poke poke Oct 14 08:25:46 whats a good hardware to test ubuntu-arm on ? preferrably a SMP one Oct 14 08:26:06 Tegra part of the supported list? Oct 14 08:26:44 CodeWar: efikamx should be good, they seem to actually be contributing to debian Oct 14 08:27:02 tegra is more like "if the moon is waxing and you're standing on one leg, it works OK...ish" Oct 14 08:27:48 We don't have installers for efika systems right now (and they're not SMP). Oct 14 08:27:48 If you want SMP, a Toshiba AC100 netbook  or a TI PandaBoard are your best bets. Oct 14 08:28:14 infinity: oh, sorry Oct 14 08:28:32 AC100s are about the same as TF101s, aren't they? i.e. sucky? Oct 14 08:28:44 Mine works great. Oct 14 08:28:50 OK Oct 14 08:29:29 Outperforms the Panda by no small margin, if it had a US keyboard layout, I'd actually use it as my primary netbook. Oct 14 08:29:35 But the Uk keyboard makes me want to kick puppies. :P Oct 14 08:29:45 stupid enter key? Oct 14 08:30:06 Stupid everything. Keyboard layouts are a religious thing. :) Oct 14 08:30:09 AC101 dual core A9 .. decent enough let me look it up Oct 14 08:30:18 Well you can remap it if it's just the caps Oct 14 08:30:24 CodeWar: It's a Tegra2. Oct 14 08:30:57 twb: Yeah, remapping it fails a bit because you end up with a teeny-tiny \| key, due to the enter key eating most of its neighbours. Oct 14 08:31:06 yeah OK Oct 14 08:31:07 Om now now. Oct 14 08:31:12 nom nom too. Oct 14 08:31:27 That's one of my biggest hates on keyboards, that big enter key Oct 14 08:31:46 Asus Transformer 2 .. is that expected to work :-) Oct 14 08:31:47 I mean half the time I type ^M anyway Oct 14 08:31:48 would be best Oct 14 08:32:14 CodeWar: There have been some people fiddling with the TF2. It has no official support, but I know you can make it work with enough effort. Oct 14 08:32:17 CodeWar: I have a TF101 (Eee Pad Transformer 32G); currently it only works with crappy old 2.6.36 Oct 14 08:32:29 CodeWar: Panda or AC100 work out of the box, which is appealing if you just want to get to hacking. Oct 14 08:32:46 When lilstevie comes back from the pub or his girlfriend's or whatever and helps me, I might make some more progress :P Oct 14 08:33:43 thanks guys .. still trying to wrap my head around these various models .. Oct 14 08:33:46 infinity, I was a little surprised when I read the release notes, AC100 and IMX.53 (I think?) was listed, but not the Pandaboard. Oct 14 08:33:48 (And most devices that ship with Android can just be abused to boot Ubuntu with an Android kernel, but the user experience there will vary, depending) Oct 14 08:34:00 That's cheating Oct 14 08:34:02 it doesn't count Oct 14 08:34:12 diwic: AC100 and i.MX53 were listed as new, omap3 and omap4 were already supported. Oct 14 08:34:27 infinity, ok, that explains it, thanks Oct 14 08:35:03 You know what would be awesome? If someone sold a complete get-started-on-hacking-Ubuntu-on-ARM kits at UDS. Pandaboard, power supply, SD card with Ubuntu pre-installed, USB-serial dongle, whatever else one might need. Oct 14 08:35:46 sheevaplug used to ship with ubuntu pre-installed Oct 14 08:35:49 soren: To be fair, that's more or less what you get if you order a Freescale i.MX53. They ship with an SD with Ubuntu. Though, I need to find someone at Freescale to talk to about refreshing their image to use a saner kernel. Oct 14 08:36:08 But IMO the goal should be a pure blend Oct 14 08:36:12 It would be nice if TI did the same thing with the Panda package, though. Oct 14 08:36:44 Not that it's rocket science to download an image and make it go, but the user experince is fairly shiny when it "just works" without having to read. Oct 14 08:37:59 infinity: Looking at the i.MX53 now. Glancing at the specs, it looks somewhat less beefy. Oct 14 08:38:45 soren: Well, it's a single-core A8, which is less cool than a Panda or AC100, but for people doing a lot of building, the on-baord SATA more than makes up for it. Oct 14 08:39:05 infinity: Oh, shiny. I didn't notice that. Oct 14 08:39:11 soren: Building most things on A8/A9 systems is almost entirely I/O bound, not CPU. Oct 14 08:39:20 infinity: what, you don't use iSCSI pointing at the SAN for everything ? ;-) Oct 14 08:39:25 infinity: Ok. Well, let me rephrase then.. Oct 14 08:39:41 You know what would be awesome? If someone sold a complete get-started-on-hacking-Ubuntu-on-ARM kits at UDS. Freescale i.MX53, power supply, SD card with Ubuntu pre-installed, USB-serial dongle, whatever else one might need. Oct 14 08:40:05 twb: It doesn't matter how cool my networking tech is, you can't get past the part where Pandas have a 100bit ethernet adapter hanging off a USB 2.0 bus. :P Oct 14 08:40:17 100bit? Holy crap. Oct 14 08:40:22 Mbit. Oct 14 08:40:25 Typing is hard. Oct 14 08:40:26 Oh. Those. Oct 14 08:40:34 It feels like 100bit. Oct 14 08:40:40 that's the uart :P Oct 14 08:41:42 (To be clear, I have no issues with the Panda's architecture, it's a dev board meant to be a giant cell phone, and it works great for what it's meant to do... It's just a lousy desktop or build server due to USB being your limiting factor for any storage) Oct 14 08:41:51 At least for me, having to buy unknown hardware and bits and pieces just to even get started has put me off for a looong time. Now I've actually bought a pandaboard, but still haven't gotten it to work. Oct 14 08:42:14 soren: Flash oneiric image to SD, insert, boot. Oct 14 08:42:20 Done that. Oct 14 08:42:20 soren: It's pretty straightforward these days. Oct 14 08:42:29 Doesn't work. It just lights up very briefly, then turns off. Oct 14 08:42:34 No clue why. Oct 14 08:42:39 That sounds unpleasant. Oct 14 08:42:42 The turning off bit. Oct 14 08:42:44 They don't do that. Oct 14 08:43:20 I RMA'ed the board (not just for this reason), but the new one does the same. Oct 14 08:43:23 Oh, actually, it might do that if it fails to find anything interesting on the SD, I don't recall. Oct 14 08:43:36 What the heck. I'll give it another go. Oct 14 08:43:42 Wiggle the card, rewrite it moar bettar, use a different one? Oct 14 08:43:56 Where' the current "Idiot's guide to Ubuntu on Pandaboard"? Oct 14 08:44:05 I've tried two different card. Oct 14 08:44:10 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP Oct 14 08:44:18 Same micro-SD-regular-SD converter, though. Oct 14 08:44:58 Oh, I've had serious issues with micro->regular->Panda, though I'd always assumed it was just my own cards and adapters being shit. Oct 14 08:45:18 (Which it probably is) Oct 14 08:45:20 Maybe I should see if I could find a regular SD card somewhere. Oct 14 08:45:30 ...or just try a different adapter. Oct 14 08:45:33 But yeah. SD/MMC is about the worst choice for installatoin media ever, but we have no options. Oct 14 08:45:34 HAdn't thought of that. Oct 14 08:45:57 infinity: ferrite core Oct 14 08:45:59 If I recall, the Panda will just appear to "do notihng" if you light it up and it sees nothing of interest in the SD slot. Oct 14 08:46:13 infinity: Well, if no SD card is in, it stays on. Oct 14 08:46:22 When my SD card is in, it shuts off. Oct 14 08:46:26 Well, nothing of interest, after looking. Oct 14 08:46:37 It's a bit fiddly in those first few miliseconds. :P Oct 14 08:46:39 After that, it's great! Oct 14 08:48:14 I guess it could be the power supply. Oct 14 08:48:48 It says it goes up to 2.5A. Oct 14 08:51:02 Or dirty power that is pissing it off because it's a switching-mode PSU and thus sensitive to problems in the wave Oct 14 08:51:15 We went through three soekris net5501 PSUs here before we gave up Oct 14 08:52:57 infinity: The for the PAndaboard I want to use the OMAP4 image, right? Oct 14 08:53:51 soren: Yup. Oct 14 08:54:59 * soren downloads Oct 14 08:57:51 Oops, accidentally grabbed the natty image. Will that work ok? Oct 14 08:58:18 It will, but why start out-of-date? Oct 14 08:58:24 Especially if you're using SD. Upgrading is SLOW. :P Oct 14 08:59:59 I just want to see that damn thing work. Oct 14 09:00:41 Also, the oneiric image seems to be more than 3 times bigger. Writing out the natty image takes long enough. Oct 14 09:07:28 Holy crap! It stayed on! Oct 14 09:07:42 Magic. Oct 14 09:08:17 * soren headdesks Oct 14 09:08:27 It's been that adapter all along, then! Oct 14 09:09:55 And the one I'm using now is identical. *sigh* Oct 14 09:16:05 lool, poke Oct 14 09:21:01 hmm Oct 14 09:21:40 infinity, do you happen to know where the new flash-kernel lives in debian atm ? did it migrate to unstable or is it still in experimental ? Oct 14 09:22:02 (i would like to file a sync request ahead of time so we have it immediately after opening) Oct 14 09:22:09 ogra_: Not sure. I'd assume either experimental, in some VCS somewhere, or on lool's hard drive. Oct 14 09:22:18 i suspect we will run into a pile of issues Oct 14 09:22:32 so the sooner we get it the better Oct 14 09:22:38 ogra_: I'm not positive that lool thinks it's ready for prime-time, but I haven't talked to him about it for a couple of months. Oct 14 09:23:01 i know its ready for the arches we support but might handle things different than we do for these Oct 14 09:23:05 ogra_: Given that this is an LTS coming up, I'm not sure I'm inclined to switch. Oct 14 09:23:10 i know its not ready for "old" arches Oct 14 09:23:15 ogra_: Dealing with the bugs we know seems saner. Oct 14 09:23:21 which we dont care about Oct 14 09:23:43 and i know its used by default in armhf in debian Oct 14 09:23:54 but thats not in any official repo Oct 14 09:24:00 Almost. Oct 14 09:24:09 But is it? They don't have installation media. Oct 14 09:24:22 infinity, well, you had a spec to actually use its database for HW stuff iirc Oct 14 09:24:42 and i would like to get rid of the crap ahead of the LTS Oct 14 09:24:52 else we need to carry the hackish version for 5 years Oct 14 09:25:02 http://ports.debian.net/debian/pool-armhf/main/f/flash-kernel/ Oct 14 09:25:15 What does "hf" stand for, btw? Oct 14 09:25:17 right, i dont think we can sync from there Oct 14 09:25:19 hard float Oct 14 09:25:22 soren, hard float Oct 14 09:25:24 Ah. Oct 14 09:25:53 ogra_, does the official oneiric image for AC100 have working sound? Oct 14 09:25:56 ogra_: Eh. I don't mind carrying it for 5 years. Once it's set up, it works. It's not like it's a maintenance burden. Oct 14 09:26:02 diwic, btw, doi you remember who waas chiming in when we talked about 5.1 recievers ? i owe him a beer :) Oct 14 09:26:05 diwic: It does if you use headphones. Oct 14 09:26:29 diwic, only with a kernel update thats not in an SRU yet and with some alsamixer adjustments Oct 14 09:26:52 and it breaks after resume from suspend Oct 14 09:27:10 but all these issues should be fixable and will make it into SRUs Oct 14 09:27:16 ogra_: The problem with that spec is that it assumes some debian-cd violence and other things. Which I'm happy to do, but I feel like it would be a waste of timein a cycle where we should be focussing on stabilising existing software, not introducing new stuff. Oct 14 09:27:40 ogra_, sorry, don't remember the 5.1 receiver stuff? Oct 14 09:27:50 infinity, well, for me thats not so much introducing new stuff but getting rid of the horrid hacks Oct 14 09:28:10 ogra_: I really do want to implement that spec and get the new hw DB idea working right, but this just feels like the wrong time. I dunno. We'll argue about it in Orlando. ;) Oct 14 09:28:13 diwic, yeah, its started with me asking you about spectrum analyzer software Oct 14 09:28:23 right Oct 14 09:28:43 he chimed in and recommended me to rather get a denon ... Oct 14 09:29:30 after 3 weeks of bitter ear pain with the new yamaha i returned it on monday ... now i have a denon, no more earpain, waaaay better sound :) Oct 14 09:29:35 * soren pats his Denon receiver in his desk Oct 14 09:30:09 and i got it reaaaaly cheap because they felt pity for giving me something that produces ear pain :) Oct 14 09:30:26 (like a 500€ discount *g*) Oct 14 09:30:43 Wow. Oct 14 09:31:27 soren, for the SACD player i bought i got a 1000€ discout because the box was missing ....500 isnt that much ;) Oct 14 09:31:57 If you can get a €1000 it must have been rather pricey to begin with. Oct 14 09:32:16 ogra_: is there anything major different between the AC100 image and the omap builds? Oct 14 09:32:17 I think mine cost €1000 total. Oct 14 09:32:19 11 years ago. Oct 14 09:33:07 lilstevie, look at ac100-tarball-installer source, that has all the specialities ... beyond that indeed it has its own kernel and bootloader setup Oct 14 09:33:39 ok :) Oct 14 09:33:48 soren, yeah, my old system costed me 600, including cup sized speakers etc ... i thought its time for an upgrade and invested 5000 Oct 14 09:34:12 ogra_: was mainly wondering for basing my transformer stuff from one of them Oct 14 09:34:29 lilstevie, feel free, but you might need some adjustments Oct 14 09:35:01 well I do have a different bootloader setup Oct 14 09:35:31 right, and a different kernel Oct 14 09:35:36 yeah Oct 14 09:58:15 ogra_, infinity: New f-k is in experimental and in git Oct 14 09:58:33 there are more changes to be done, but I guess it's already better than what we have Oct 14 09:58:35 lool, do you think its suitable for an LTS ? Oct 14 09:58:44 yeah, thats what i think too Oct 14 09:58:44 it doesn't support SD card right now Oct 14 09:58:54 and i dont want to sit on what we have for 5 years Oct 14 09:59:06 argh, seriously ? Oct 14 09:59:28 well, it doesn't have any OMAP mechanism; you could point it at /boot though Oct 14 09:59:39 I don't think much OMAP support made it to Debian Oct 14 09:59:50 does it have omap4 ? Oct 14 09:59:59 shouldnt be to hard to derive from there Oct 14 10:00:09 that included lack of OMAP4 Oct 14 10:00:14 bah, k Oct 14 10:33:08 morning all Oct 14 10:34:50 is com0 at 0x49020000 on the panda? Oct 14 10:42:25 aloha, does ubuntu build from a single source or do you have a separate one for arm vs x86? Oct 14 10:42:44 wondering if i look for a package in packages.ubuntu.com does that cover arm? Oct 14 10:50:05 most of the time, yes Oct 14 10:50:46 all packages use the same source, packages.u.c wont tell you if the binary exists though Oct 14 10:50:54 http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ has a list of all failed builds Oct 14 10:52:39 ogra_: great, thanks Oct 14 10:52:57 you can also look on launchpad.net/ubuntu/ Oct 14 11:42:11 What's the rationale behind that /var/lib/preinstalled-pool thing in Oneiric? Oct 14 11:44:52 What's worse is that the very first package I installed from there has a checksum mismatch :( Oct 14 11:47:47 that shouldnt happen, infinity ^^^ Oct 14 11:48:06 The python-setuptools package I have in there is all NULLs. Oct 14 11:48:15 its what we ship as pool on the x86 server isos and should support installs without network Oct 14 11:48:42 * soren checks the image Oct 14 11:48:54 right, compare your md5 Oct 14 11:50:07 Image checksum matches. Oct 14 11:50:11 hmpf Oct 14 11:50:39 Yeah, but does it match once you've written it to SD? Oct 14 11:50:56 That's what I'm about to find out. Oct 14 11:51:02 WEll... Sort of. Oct 14 11:51:11 I can write an image out in a sec and have a look. Oct 14 11:51:18 Where "in a sec" is "sometime this afternoon". Oct 14 11:51:26 I'll mount the image on my laptop and see if the problem exists there, too. Otherwise, it probably got screwed up when I wrote it to the SD. Oct 14 11:52:50 Nope, it's fine if I mount it on my laptop. Oct 14 11:52:53 Weird. Oct 14 11:53:00 No idea where it got scrwed up, then. Oct 14 11:53:38 hmm, porobably a kernel issue then... mmc driver or filesystem driver issue Oct 14 11:54:23 Most of the files in there seem fine. Oct 14 11:54:49 on your laptop... Oct 14 11:54:51 Just 9 of them have this problem. Oct 14 11:54:56 No no, on the SD card. Oct 14 11:55:25 if inserted in your laptop or in the panda ? Oct 14 11:55:29 Panda Oct 14 11:55:41 ah Oct 14 11:55:44 hmm Oct 14 11:55:50 bad SD ? Oct 14 11:56:06 i.e. some borked blocks that shouldnt have been written to ? Oct 14 11:56:42 No idea. It's brandh new. Just unwrapped it a couple of hours ago. Oct 14 11:56:52 dmesg is silent. Oct 14 11:57:36 (on this subject, I mean) Oct 14 11:57:46 Plenty of other stuff in dmesg. Oct 14 11:59:09 hmm Oct 14 12:07:35 I could rant about SD/MMC quality again, but I seem to do that often enough. Oct 14 12:08:34 While I think it's cool that we provide an SD grow-root installation method (and, indeeed, that's the simplest way for people to test their hardware and get started), I still think the goal should be to encourage people to get their system on reliable external storage ASAP. Oct 14 12:08:49 And just use the SD for uBoot. Oct 14 12:10:12 or support boards with nand booting only :P Oct 14 12:10:25 we just need to convince vendors to put more money in :) Oct 14 12:11:02 ogra_: I don't mind treating the SD slot as a hardwires flash/firmware area. At the end of the day, the behaviour is the same. Oct 14 12:11:10 ogra_: And that's what we do when we netboot, for instance. Oct 14 12:11:24 It's also how my i.MX53 and Panda both run when they're at home. Oct 14 12:11:43 s/hardwires/hardwired/ Oct 14 12:11:59 infinity, right, thats also what we did on babbage ... though there we had the prob that we had to install to the livefs media while running from it Oct 14 12:25:25 wow... i got opengl-es to work on my pandaboard using oneiric and using the default package sources.. i simply installed every omap4 package and then it turned ON Oct 14 12:26:03 i was expecting to get the packages from the ti ppa.. but they where already in main Oct 14 12:26:11 *raise brow* Oct 14 12:26:28 infinity: want a screenshot? Oct 14 12:26:37 There's no way that's hardware accelerated if it involves nothing from TI. Oct 14 12:29:54 infinity: http://openjdk.gudinna.com/lwjgl-es/pandaboard-LWJGL.png Oct 14 12:30:19 running at 130fps Oct 14 12:32:24 xranby: 130fps sounds like software rendering to me. Oct 14 12:33:14 infinity: libEGL comes from the SGX omap 4 package Oct 14 12:33:39 infinity: this are usning java -> opengl-es bindings Oct 14 12:34:37 infinity, es2gears in SW rendering on the ac100 gets me 20-30 frames Oct 14 12:34:52 i think its about 180 if accelerated Oct 14 12:37:56 xranby: I can't find this package you're referring to. Oct 14 12:38:17 infinity: let me try generate a list of installed packages Oct 14 12:38:29 xranby: dpkg -S /path/to/file Oct 14 12:38:31 are the some way to list the packages that got installed today? Oct 14 12:38:32 Would that be the "benchmark" that has a --i-acknowledge-this-is-not-a-benchmark option? Oct 14 12:43:32 infinity: http://paste.ubuntu.com/707964/ perhaps i got them from the ppa after all Oct 14 12:44:14 twb, i think that was dropped again at some piunt :) Oct 14 12:44:18 *point Oct 14 12:44:37 xranby: "apt-cache policy packagename" will tell you where it comes from. Oct 14 12:44:43 xranby: But yes, those aren't in the archive. Oct 14 12:45:23 well, we definitely dont ahve ubuntu-omap4-extra in any official archive Oct 14 12:45:41 and you have the sw-center added ppa .list Oct 14 12:45:58 infinity: ok i can now confirm that they did come from the ppa Oct 14 12:46:00 thanks ti Oct 14 12:46:17 :) Oct 14 12:46:26 send flowers to ndec and his team :) Oct 14 12:46:39 ndec: cheers! Oct 14 12:46:40 (or probably better bottles of old wine) Oct 14 12:47:11 ogra_: well that's bloody stupid Oct 14 12:47:30 ndec: i have lwjgl java bindings working on the pandabord using your latest oneiric drivers.. Oct 14 12:47:35 nice Oct 14 12:56:10 yes, gfx libs have been in PPA for a while now. video decoders are coming soon... Oct 14 13:06:16 ndec: ok meanwhile i have filed a bug against the LWJGL upstream to add support for all your drivers extensions http://lwjgl.org/forum/index.php/topic,4237.0.html Oct 14 13:08:47 ndec: when i install teh libEGL and friens all .so ends with .so.1 are this intentional? Oct 14 13:09:27 the opengl-es userspace applications are looking for the libEGL.so symlinks and fails to find the library Oct 14 13:10:01 * ndec thought we had fixed that. Oct 14 13:17:12 xranby: yes, this is true the .so is only in the -dev package (e.g. libegl1-sgx-omap4-dev) Oct 14 13:17:50 to me it's more a bug in the applications, ... but we've seen that in the past, and since we cannot change all applications, we need to update our package. Oct 14 13:17:57 for now, you just need to install the -dev Oct 14 13:18:20 ok thank you for checking Oct 14 13:18:46 There's a longstanding history of bainry GL apps looking for .so instead of the actual library. :/ Oct 14 13:19:02 But we don't ship .so in any library package, for sanity reasons. Oct 14 13:19:12 binary* Oct 14 13:20:00 hmm i wonder why.. the brainy GL apps simply try to link againt EGL Oct 14 13:20:09 'to get into this state Oct 14 13:21:22 -lEGL are passed tot he linker Oct 14 13:21:30 and it makes the linker pick to use the .so Oct 14 13:21:41 xranby: Err, wait. Oct 14 13:21:51 xranby: You need the -dev (and the .so) to link... Oct 14 13:22:03 But it should then link to .so.1 Oct 14 13:22:13 usually you can have EGL mesa installed to build it Oct 14 13:22:54 so the app links against the mesa EGL -dev package Oct 14 13:23:21 libegl1-mesa-dev - free implementation of the EGL API -- development files Oct 14 13:24:04 I'm still not sure what your bug is here... Oct 14 13:24:11 You need dev packages installed to compile. Oct 14 13:24:15 But not to run. Oct 14 13:24:50 If "ldd mybinary" shows that you've linked to an unversioned .so, that's certainly a bug (ie: if you need it at runtime). Oct 14 13:26:55 we used to have wrong SONAME in our libs, but this is fixed. objdump -p /usr/lib/libEGL.so | grep SONAME will tell you libEGL.so.1 (and it used to be the .so). the soname is what the app will link against. Oct 14 13:27:11 perhaps the mesa-dev package has wrong soname? Oct 14 13:27:35 ndec: Almost certainly not. :P Oct 14 13:27:55 (If it did, nothing on my system would work) Oct 14 13:28:44 xranby: is your app dynamically linked against the .so, or do you have a dlopen to the .so . i think firefox does (did?) that Oct 14 13:29:04 let me check Oct 14 13:36:36 ldd at points to /usr/lib/libEGL.so i guess that makes it dynamically link Oct 14 13:37:09 * xranby are rebooting his board... for some reason the usb mouse/keyboard refused to enumerate Oct 14 13:43:02 morning dudes Oct 14 15:47:34 <_Thomas> Does anyone here work with the ubuntu release for the Linaro Origen-board? Oct 14 15:47:37 <_Thomas> (I'm wondering if anyone knows the status of getting HW opengl on that board) Oct 14 15:48:20 _Thomas, as i said in the other channel, ubuntu-arm doesnt support the origen board Oct 14 15:50:46 <_Thomas> ok Oct 14 19:11:38 pandaboard: linaro image vs ti-omap ppa Oct 14 19:11:41 which is better? Oct 14 23:03:07 so when I have the load address in uboot, is that looking for KERNEL_BASE_PHYS=0x80300000? Oct 15 02:16:39 Yay for ARM Oct 15 02:37:54 ubot2: seen lilstevie Oct 15 02:37:56 I have no seen command Oct 15 02:38:00 Bah. Oct 15 02:45:59 twb: I haven't forgotten about you **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 15 02:59:56 2011