**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 07 02:59:57 2011
Dec 07 03:01:31 <lilstevie> Xase: is that NookBuntu using an older version of ubuntu?
Dec 07 03:01:47 <lilstevie> because that seems rather overkill for natty+
Dec 07 03:15:25 <Gioyik> HI..
Dec 07 03:15:28 <Gioyik> I have a question...
Dec 07 03:15:54 <Gioyik> I'm interest in use rootstock..
Dec 07 03:16:14 <Gioyik> and my question is..
Dec 07 03:17:11 <Gioyik> if i modify the OS host.. (Ubuntu)
Dec 07 03:17:30 <Gioyik> with new packges and wallpapers..
Dec 07 03:18:02 <Gioyik> when i build the arm image with the rootstock..
Dec 07 03:18:27 <Gioyik> that changes apply for that build?
Dec 07 05:59:09 <Xase> lilstevie: I thing it's actually a hybrid of ubuntu and Angstrom though not sure.
Dec 07 05:59:37 <twb> Xase: what could POSSIBLY go wrong
Dec 07 05:59:53 <Xase> Several parts say Angstrom... but it looks like and is advertised as ubuntu
Dec 07 06:00:16 <Xase> I think I'm going to build me a root fs from scratch so I can install the deprecated evtouch...
Dec 07 06:00:30 <Xase> Since there are rules for it in that nookbuntu lilstevie
Dec 07 06:00:42 <Xase> Even single touch would be a step in the right direction
Dec 07 06:02:17 <Xase> I think I should install Ubuntu... I'm tired of Debian =(
Dec 07 06:02:23 <Xase> A lot of my packages are broken.
Dec 07 06:02:38 <Xase> I converted a Crunchbang Statler/Squeeze to Wheezy.
Dec 07 06:02:54 <twb> Xase: testing or- yeah, well, if you run testing you get to keep both halves
Dec 07 06:03:22 <Xase> twb: I'm an idiot, can you clarify that sentence.
Dec 07 06:03:35 <twb> testing breaks a lot
Dec 07 06:03:43 <Xase> Ah, a joke?
Dec 07 06:03:49 <twb> If you can't deal with that you're not supposed to run testing
Dec 07 06:03:57 <Xase> Oh I can.
Dec 07 06:04:01 <twb> Xase: yes the line is "with open source, when it breaks you get to keep both halves"
Dec 07 06:04:11 <Xase> The breakage is mainly from converting.
Dec 07 06:04:17 <twb> Fair enough
Dec 07 06:04:55 <Xase> Testing is actually really nice... though I really wanna give Unity another go now that 11.10 is out.
Dec 07 06:05:15 <Xase> Ubuntu is great... but so is Debian... but so is Linux in general.
Dec 07 06:05:17 <twb> Bleh
Dec 07 06:05:19 <Xase> I flip flop a lot.
Dec 07 06:05:24 <Xase> Not a unity fan?
Dec 07 06:05:46 <twb> I'm not a fan of much of anything ubuntu has done to debian
Dec 07 06:05:59 <Xase> I've been digging gnome 3.0, but I'm still partial to open box/xfce
Dec 07 06:06:10 <Xase> :p
Dec 07 06:06:11 <twb> In particular upstart as at lucid routinely fucks me up the arse, no lube
Dec 07 06:06:12 <Xase> lol
Dec 07 06:06:17 <Xase> Not a ubuntu fan in general.
Dec 07 06:06:30 <Xase> ?
Dec 07 06:06:37 <Xase> s/?/./
Dec 07 06:07:00 <Xase> I really need to practice regexps more :(
Dec 07 06:07:15 <Xase> I'm slacking in my auto-didactic ruby learning :(
Dec 07 06:07:24 <twb> Well, I will cheerfully take Ubuntu LTS if the alternative is RHEL or SLES or SCO or Solaris or W2k8 or ...
Dec 07 06:07:48 <Xase> My main dither is I don't have a seperate home partition...
Dec 07 06:08:11 <Xase> So installing Ubuntu kills all my files... unless I dual boot, copy crap over and chmod/chown a lot of crap.
Dec 07 06:08:27 <Xase> And then kill my debian install.
Dec 07 06:08:59 <Xase> Meh, I'd just upload the important stuff if my upload speed wasn't like 0kb/s
Dec 07 06:09:00 <twb> If your /home isn't separate from the OS, you deserve anything that happens to you
Dec 07 06:09:27 <Xase> I normally do have a seperate home, but I had a two year old clinging to my back at the moment, and couldn't focus on much of anything.
Dec 07 06:09:41 <Xase> The only thing I managed to make separate was /boot
Dec 07 06:11:18 <twb> That's why you hang them on the coat hook by their overalls
Dec 07 06:11:41 <Xase> Do Dresses work as well?
Dec 07 06:11:50 <twb> Dunno
Dec 07 06:12:00 <Xase> I think I'd murder the family member to give my daughter overalls.
Dec 07 06:12:15 <Xase> Reminds me of my Grandaddy... who always mows the lawn once a week in just overalls.
Dec 07 06:12:23 <Xase> No shoes, socks, underwear or shit...
Dec 07 06:12:25 <Xase> shirt*
Dec 07 06:12:29 <Xase> just overalls.
Dec 07 06:12:57 <twb> She's two, she probably rolls around in mud and stuff, overalls sound practical to me
Dec 07 06:13:15 <twb> Or maybe not overalls but a jumpsuit like a mechanic or a pilot wears
Dec 07 06:13:32 <Xase> Nah, she's sophisticated, she can navigate the ipod, the nook color, and my Inspire, and her mother's laptop.
Dec 07 06:13:48 <Xase> She's a tomboyish dress wearing nerd in growth :D
Dec 07 06:13:53 <twb> That doesn't preclude mud
Dec 07 06:13:57 <Xase> Man she's got a mouth.
Dec 07 06:14:11 <Xase> The only time she gets near mud is when she's kicking it at ya'. :p
Dec 07 06:14:25 <twb> I don't have a good solution re. mouth, except maybe wearing noise-cancelling headphones
Dec 07 06:15:22 <Xase> Eh I only have a x86 install disc =/
Dec 07 06:15:34 <twb> PXE FTW
Dec 07 06:15:37 <Xase> She is the noise cancelling headphones...
Dec 07 06:15:45 <Xase> You know... I've never given PXE a try...
Dec 07 06:16:01 <Xase> Give that baby netflix... and out!
Dec 07 06:16:37 <Xase> Yeah but don't I already have to have something serving the media @ twb ?
Dec 07 06:17:35 <twb> EH?
Dec 07 06:17:46 <twb> Oh, yeah, you need a PXE server
Dec 07 06:18:03 <Xase> I'll just go minimal...
Dec 07 06:18:20 <Xase> I'll just redownload all my crap, though it will take a lengthy ass time over my connection :D
Dec 07 06:18:24 <Xase> o.o
Dec 07 06:18:27 <Xase> Really lengthy.
Dec 07 06:18:35 <Xase> It'd be faster to just download the whole CD...
Dec 07 06:18:45 <twb> Whatever
Dec 07 06:18:57 <Xase> Too bad I can't bypass my ISP and use my shell's internet as my internet :D
Dec 07 06:19:03 <Xase> 20mbits would be nice
Dec 07 06:19:12 <twb> "your shell" ?
Dec 07 06:19:27 <Xase> I have a shell account provided by a friend on their data server.
Dec 07 06:19:33 <twb> Oh right.
Dec 07 06:19:39 <Xase> I use it for irssi, and stuff.
Dec 07 06:19:45 <twb> Sure, just use sneakernet between there and you
Dec 07 06:19:54 <twb> apt-walk or debmirror or so
Dec 07 06:20:25 <twb> 20mbps is only about standard ADSL2+ speed, tho.
Dec 07 06:20:34 <Xase> Sneakernet doesn't quite cut it over two oceans.
Dec 07 06:20:44 <twb> :P
Dec 07 06:22:07 <Xase> Man I forgot the line to check bandwidth via ternminal
Dec 07 11:30:22 <lilstevie> Xase: the depreciated package is a little overkill
Dec 07 11:30:57 <lilstevie> it is depreciated cause it was rolled into evdev AFAIK
Dec 07 12:06:11 <S0NiC> hi guys
Dec 07 12:07:03 <S0NiC> ogra_ are u there? ;)
Dec 07 12:28:58 <ogra_> S0NiC, yes, whats up ?
Dec 07 12:34:11 <S0NiC> ogra_ do you know rootstock?
Dec 07 12:34:19 <ogra_> i wrote it ...
Dec 07 12:34:23 <ogra_> its obsolete
Dec 07 12:34:55 <S0NiC> more obsolete than this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/BuildEABIChroot?
Dec 07 12:35:05 <ogra_> same level :)
Dec 07 12:35:30 <S0NiC> ah ok, i have two questions
Dec 07 12:36:39 <XorA> lilstevie: the same dude thats ubuntu on transformer?
Dec 07 12:37:07 <S0NiC> 1. is armv5tel compatible to arm7?
Dec 07 12:37:19 <S0NiC> sounds no. right?
Dec 07 12:38:04 <XorA> ubuntu doesnt have an armv5 build :-(
Dec 07 12:38:12 <ogra_> not sure, check wikipedia ... i thougth v5tel was arm11 but i'm usually wrong with the old stuff (and we dont support it anywhere anyway)
Dec 07 12:38:45 <xranby> can we reduce the default thread stack size in glibc from 8MB to say 2MB or less...? i find it waste of resources on arm to fill up the 512Mb of memory by simply starting some programs that are totally running 64 threads on the system
Dec 07 12:38:55 <S0NiC> ogra_ ill check it
Dec 07 12:39:42 <ogra_> S0NiC, well, wrt ubuntu it wont gain you anything, we only support armv7, cortex-a8 and upwards
Dec 07 12:40:05 <S0NiC> ogra_ armv7 is what i need
Dec 07 12:40:25 <ogra_> well, i was just wondering since you asked about v5 above
Dec 07 12:40:39 <S0NiC> what you recommend?
Dec 07 12:40:50 <ogra_> ??
Dec 07 12:41:21 <ogra_> for pre-cortex-a8 you mean ? use debian, they support older SoCs
Dec 07 12:41:22 <S0NiC> ogra_ how i get a toolchain with armv7, i tried https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/BuildEABIChroot? and uname -m tells me armv5tel
Dec 07 12:41:38 <S0NiC> thats why iam wondering
Dec 07 12:41:51 <ogra_> then you muss use a very old release in your chroot
Dec 07 12:42:06 <ogra_> we dont have any supported release for pre-v7
Dec 07 12:42:33 <S0NiC> did you remember we did this yesterday? and you told me that is deprecated
Dec 07 12:42:34 <ogra_> karmic and jaunty used to support older HW but both of them are EOL
Dec 07 12:42:59 <S0NiC> ogra_ ok, how i get a toolchain running arm7. thats the question
Dec 07 12:43:01 <S0NiC> :)
Dec 07 12:43:12 <ogra_> (and we only supported them because immediately switching to v7 was to hard)
Dec 07 12:43:23 <S0NiC> ah ok
Dec 07 12:43:24 <ogra_> use a decebt release for your chroot ...
Dec 07 12:43:29 <ogra_> *decent
Dec 07 12:44:12 <S0NiC> and what you recommend? sorry i have no plan ;_7
Dec 07 12:44:30 <lilstevie> XorA: yes, I am he
Dec 07 12:44:58 <XorA> lilstevie: sweet, one day I shall stop travelling without my Transformer and actually get it installed
Dec 07 12:45:00 <ogra_> S0NiC, take natty its the last stable release, fully supports v7 and has the longest life cycle
Dec 07 12:45:16 <lilstevie> XorA: hehe, I hope on making the process even easier soon :)
Dec 07 12:47:02 <S0NiC> ogra_ ok ill download it, and how can i get a funcitionally toolchain?
Dec 07 12:47:06 <XorA> lilstevie: complex Im not worried about as Im an embedded linux guy, but the transformer always being 1000s of miles from my hand is an issue ;-D
Dec 07 12:47:25 <ogra_> S0NiC, its is inside there ... you just install the build-essential package
Dec 07 12:47:37 <XorA> lilstevie: BTW what PMIC is in Transformer do you know?
Dec 07 12:49:22 <S0NiC> ogra_ thanks. you mean this Ubuntu 11.04 right? is der any stuff i can read especially for this?
Dec 07 12:53:02 <ogra_> S0NiC, just use qemu-debootstrap like you did yesterday
Dec 07 12:54:46 <S0NiC> ogra_ ill try ;D
Dec 07 13:07:56 <lilstevie> XorA: good question :p
Dec 07 13:08:42 <lilstevie> XorA: I am really only on the surface still
Dec 07 13:08:56 <lilstevie> still a lot of work to go before it is 100%
Dec 07 13:10:59 <XorA> lilstevie: its not one of my PMICs
Dec 07 13:11:05 <XorA> found it in teardown
Dec 07 13:11:28 <lilstevie> heh
Dec 07 13:12:47 <lilstevie> well I haven't noticed any driver issues with the PMIC anyway
Dec 07 13:13:18 <lilstevie> it wakes up fine, just the framebuffer that doesn't
Dec 07 13:14:47 <XorA> PMIC probably 90% controlled by its internal power sequencer anyway
Dec 07 13:16:37 <lilstevie> yeah
Dec 07 13:17:21 <lilstevie> my only problem with sleep/wake is the framebuffer not coming back up correctly
Dec 07 13:42:45 <S0NiC> q
Dec 07 13:43:27 <S0NiC> ogra_ can i bother you again? ;)
Dec 07 13:43:33 <ogra_> sure
Dec 07 13:44:31 <S0NiC> i have to install qemu-arm-static again=?
Dec 07 13:44:41 <S0NiC> i only bootet now ubuntu 11.04 in my vm
Dec 07 13:44:44 <S0NiC> booted
Dec 07 13:44:51 <ogra_> qemu-user-static is the actual name since a few releases
Dec 07 13:45:00 <S0NiC> ah ok thx
Dec 07 13:45:18 <ogra_> and from that use qemu-debootstrap like yesterday
Dec 07 13:45:25 <ogra_> with suite set to natty
Dec 07 13:45:58 <S0NiC> that was what i thought. thx
Dec 07 13:53:29 <S0NiC> qemu-debootstrap --arch armel --suite natty illl try this
Dec 07 13:57:19 <ogra_> not --suite
Dec 07 13:57:20 <ogra_> qemu-debootstrap --arch armel natty <target dir>
Dec 07 13:57:37 <S0NiC> ogra_ i trie
Dec 07 13:57:47 <S0NiC> try
Dec 07 14:00:29 <S0NiC> ogra_ then i can do "sudo chroot <mydir>?
Dec 07 14:00:44 <ogra_> right
Dec 07 14:01:11 <S0NiC> and the i do update? and after that built-essentials?
Dec 07 14:01:30 <doko> ogra_, what tags are used for armhf ftbfs issues? stll arm-porting-qeuue?
Dec 07 14:02:22 <ogra_> doko, ask rsalveti :) i never use tags for that, i usually just pick from ubuntuwire
Dec 07 14:02:41 * ogra_ finds using bugs for ftbfs overkill 
Dec 07 14:02:42 <rsalveti> doko: yes
Dec 07 14:22:56 <S0NiC> ogra_ iam here again...  i cant update/install anything, i get the following error: http://nopaste.info/1edf6eb8ad.html
Dec 07 14:23:46 <ogra_> S0NiC, check /etc/pat/sources.list
Dec 07 14:23:57 <ogra_> */etc/apt/sources.list
Dec 07 14:24:22 <S0NiC> mom
Dec 07 14:24:53 <S0NiC> ogra_ its empty
Dec 07 14:25:02 <ogra_> k
Dec 07 14:25:08 <ogra_> add the following line to it
Dec 07 14:25:26 <ogra_> deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports natty main restricted universe multiverse
Dec 07 14:25:34 <ogra_> then run apt-get update again
Dec 07 14:25:38 <S0NiC> if i try ifconfig i get this ifocnfig Warning: cannot open /proc/net/dev (No such file or directory). Limited output. SIOCGIFCONF: Bad address maybe this is a point?
Dec 07 14:25:42 <ogra_> that should give you the packages
Dec 07 14:25:45 <S0NiC> ok
Dec 07 14:26:40 <S0NiC> ah now it works
Dec 07 14:26:42 <S0NiC> thx
Dec 07 14:26:45 <ogra_> :)
Dec 07 14:27:07 <S0NiC> that are problems, i have no idea where i have to search for an solution... ;(
Dec 07 14:27:36 <ogra_> well, thats basic knowledge about .deb based systems
Dec 07 14:27:44 <ogra_> not even ubuntu specific
Dec 07 14:27:55 <S0NiC> i only run gentoo ;)
Dec 07 14:28:08 <S0NiC> update / upgrade is done
Dec 07 14:28:18 <S0NiC> now i try to install  build-essential
Dec 07 14:28:44 <S0NiC> ok worked
Dec 07 14:29:06 <ogra_> and then you want the -dev packages for the libs your app links against :)
Dec 07 14:29:22 <S0NiC> and hopefully it worked after that ;D
Dec 07 15:14:38 <S0NiC> ogra_ http://nopaste.info/9ea21b319d.html i get an ARM file... hope it works...
Dec 07 15:15:09 <S0NiC> cross your fingers ;)
Dec 07 15:15:35 <ogra_> good luck :)
Dec 07 15:24:48 <xranby> ogra_: no armhf image sin http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-preinstalled/current/ ?
Dec 07 15:25:00 <xranby> im looking for a pandaboard armhf omap4
Dec 07 15:30:11 <ogra_> xranby, patience !
Dec 07 15:30:31 <ogra_> ac100 just finished, i'll start omap4 soon
Dec 07 15:39:06 <xranby> ogra_: ok, patence lasted ~10 min this time..  will the ac100 image appear at the daily-preinstalled location?
Dec 07 15:39:22 <ogra_> yes, once the post processing is done ...
Dec 07 15:39:40 <ogra_> the livefs build succeeded, waiting for the second part to finish atm
Dec 07 15:39:53 <ogra_> its my first testbuild ... might be that it has issues
Dec 07 15:44:09 <xranby> ogra_: i appreciate the work you do.
Dec 07 15:44:36 <xranby> will occupy myself with  browsing through and triage armhf bugs while i wait
Dec 07 15:44:39 <ogra_> hmm, it finished
Dec 07 15:44:51 <ogra_> but i dont see it being mirrored
Dec 07 15:45:13 <ogra_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-preinstalled/20111207.1/ shoudl theoretically have an armhf image for ac100
Dec 07 15:46:54 <xranby> which package maintains contains the imager's code?
Dec 07 15:47:17 <ogra_> some of it isnt public
Dec 07 15:47:32 <ogra_> generally its the cdimage and the debian-cd projects
Dec 07 15:48:54 <ogra_> nope. no trace of armhf anywhere
Dec 07 15:49:18 * ogra_ tries something else
Dec 07 15:50:37 <ogra_> re-running the second part of the build
Dec 07 15:50:53 <ogra_> with some different options
Dec 07 15:52:24 <ogra_> (that will take about 30min)
Dec 07 15:53:39 <ogra_> AAAND !!! THERE WE GO !!!
Dec 07 15:54:06 <ogra_> omap4 started
Dec 07 15:54:11 <ogra_> xranby, ^^^
Dec 07 15:54:25 <xranby> \o/
Dec 07 15:54:28 <ogra_> should be ready in about 2.5-3h
Dec 07 15:55:10 <xranby> too bad i cant text you a beer... so here have a ☕
Dec 07 15:55:39 <ogra_> *slurp*
Dec 07 15:55:41 <ogra_> :)
Dec 07 15:58:57 <S0NiC> ogra_ IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
Dec 07 15:59:30 <ogra_> congrats :)
Dec 07 15:59:39 <ogra_> seems to be a good day for everyone today
Dec 07 16:00:16 <S0NiC> ogra_ it was a good idea to join this channel, your help was awesome ;)
Dec 07 16:00:18 <S0NiC> many many thanks
Dec 07 16:00:19 <S0NiC> !
Dec 07 16:00:27 <ogra_> youre welcome :)
Dec 07 16:04:47 <ogra_> hmm, intresting, the hf image is 20M smaller than the armel one
Dec 07 16:15:50 <ogra_> janimo, did you notice that adam added hf support to the ac100 package ? it not merged into git ...
Dec 07 16:15:58 <ogra_> *it is
Dec 07 16:16:10 <janimo> ogra_, I noticed, yes
Dec 07 16:16:17 <janimo> looked at the quite impressive diff
Dec 07 16:16:17 <ogra_> so before going to 3.0 please merge :)
Dec 07 16:16:30 <janimo> I need to merge it to git tree of course before 3.0
Dec 07 16:16:32 <janimo> :)
Dec 07 16:16:39 <ogra_> beyond that see above, ac100 armhf image is available ;)
Dec 07 16:16:48 <janimo> yup :) nice
Dec 07 16:16:59 <janimo> looking forward to drop all armel images :)
Dec 07 16:17:03 <ogra_> yeah
Dec 07 16:17:22 <ogra_> i'm really curious why hf is so much smaller though
Dec 07 16:17:30 <doko> btw, libreoffice needs some porting work. won't continue with this myself
Dec 07 16:17:47 <doko> ogra_, well, compare some single packages
Dec 07 16:18:30 <ogra_> doko, we lost about 20MB
Dec 07 16:18:43 <ogra_> quite impressive
Dec 07 16:19:29 <janimo> doko, I plan to look at Libo armhf myself
Dec 07 16:19:31 <doko> ogra_, I don't think this is all code
Dec 07 16:19:44 <ogra_> probably not
Dec 07 16:19:46 <doko> janimo, see bug #900636
Dec 07 16:19:48 <ubot2> Launchpad bug 900636 in libreoffice "libreoffice ftbfs on armhf" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/900636
Dec 07 16:19:58 <ogra_> i'm to lazy to compare the manifests before testing
Dec 07 16:20:26 <ogra_> will do that later ...
Dec 07 16:21:02 <janimo> doko, thanks for the diff. I suspect I'll have another few days of 'fun' with libo source tree
Dec 07 16:21:07 <ogra_> it didnt error out or anything during the live build phase so there cant be anythng missing, whats seeded will be installed
Dec 07 16:22:13 <doko> janimo: I think it's only the bridge, passing the arguments in floating point registers
Dec 07 16:22:14 <janimo> ogra_, does the amrhf gcc have different build option defaults than armel?
Dec 07 16:22:31 <janimo> doko, indeed, uno bridge assembly and stack wizardry
Dec 07 16:22:33 <ogra_> not that i know of
Dec 07 16:22:40 <ogra_> beyonf the vfp stuff indeed
Dec 07 16:22:54 <doko> no, just -mfloat-abi=hard
Dec 07 16:23:39 <janimo> ogra_, could be we have some optional package deps somewhere which only are active for armel?
Dec 07 16:23:50 <janimo> so for armhf they are not brought in?
Dec 07 16:24:00 <ogra_> shouldnt be anymore
Dec 07 16:24:09 <ogra_> we used to ... banshee etc
Dec 07 16:24:16 <ogra_> but that was all dropped
Dec 07 16:24:41 <ogra_> well, something to examine later
Dec 07 16:24:45 <doko> could be; currently we only did fix building package to build on armhf, which only built on armel
Dec 07 16:24:51 <ogra_> lets see how omap4 looks like
Dec 07 16:30:18 <GrueMaster> Can we get started on a netinstall image for mx5 soonish?  It will help for future testing, and a lot of people with sata will be pleased.
Dec 07 16:30:45 <ogra_> GrueMaster, do we have the hf kernel yet ?
Dec 07 16:31:02 <ogra_> i dont think we do until linaro uploads the change
Dec 07 16:31:11 <GrueMaster> No, but we have an armel kernel since Oneiric.
Dec 07 16:31:13 * ogra_ is afke for a moment
Dec 07 16:31:47 <GrueMaster> We can at least get the prelim work done so when there is a HF kernel, we're ready for it.
Dec 07 16:31:54 <ogra_> GrueMaster, oh, netinst ... i guess that wont work, d-i needs the kernel in main iirc
Dec 07 16:32:11 <ogra_> anyway, back soon
Dec 07 16:32:23 <GrueMaster> For all armel platforms, the kernel needs to be preseeded anyway.
Dec 07 16:38:04 <janimo> doko, what is a good example of a package that has armhf and armel separate codepaths with ifdefs (or whatever is necessary) ?
Dec 07 16:39:30 <GrueMaster> janimo: If you are looking at the size diffs between packages, it could simply be less instructions needed to perform the same operation determined by the compiler.
Dec 07 16:39:31 <doko> janimo, I think you would need to look at the sources control file for things like [armel] in dependencies. you won't see this in the packages file
Dec 07 16:41:23 <doko> janimo, infinity has a modified suite-diff.py which we used to find packages not built on armhf at all. but this won't help much for universe until most of the archive is built
Dec 07 16:43:25 <doko> ogra_, so what is the status about the ac100 images?
Dec 07 16:57:47 <xranby> doko: ac100 armhf image status https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/901315
Dec 07 16:57:49 <ubot2> Launchpad bug 901315 in ubiquity "crash during background user creation during ac100 armhf precise installer" [Undecided,New]
Dec 07 17:05:24 <ogra_> doko, ubiquity is broken, but all other bits seem fine (the bug was apparently sent using firefox :) )
Dec 07 17:06:21 <ogra_> GrueMaster, preseeding isnt the point ... d-i only uses main during its own build afaik ... you need vmlinuz from the .deb to actually roll the netinst images
Dec 07 17:06:23 <xranby> yes i have sent it using firefox from inside the armhf precise userspace
Dec 07 17:06:33 <ogra_> yay
Dec 07 17:06:47 <ogra_> bah, but the omap4 image failed to build :(
Dec 07 17:06:50 * ogra_ checks why
Dec 07 17:09:18 <ogra_> geez, language-selector explodes
Dec 07 17:13:06 <ogra_> Setting up hunspell-en-us (20070829-4ubuntu2) ...
Dec 07 17:13:06 <ogra_> Error: update-openoffice-dicts not present or executable. Missing dependency on
Dec 07 17:13:06 <ogra_> dpkg: error processing hunspell-en-us (--configure):
Dec 07 17:13:06 <ogra_>  subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1
Dec 07 17:13:06 <ogra_> No apport report written because MaxReports is reached already
Dec 07 17:18:09 <doko> ogra_, a new ubiquity is still building ...
Dec 07 17:18:20 <doko> * Add armhf support.
Dec 07 17:19:11 <ogra_> yeah
Dec 07 17:19:23 <ogra_> the hunspell thing looks weird though
Dec 07 17:19:44 <ogra_> 3h before the ac100 build succeeded and i dont think the packages changed in that area
Dec 07 17:22:27 <xranby> janimo: jamvm in openjdk have separate code paths  http://git.berlios.de/cgi-bin/cgit.cgi/jamvm/tree/src/os/linux/arm/callNative.S
Dec 07 17:32:02 <NekoXP> GrueMaster, there's no work required to get an armhf kernel running, the kernel is agnostic as to floating point ABI
Dec 07 17:32:25 <ogra_> NekoXP, it needs to match dpkg
Dec 07 17:32:27 <NekoXP> you just need to change the arch in the packager
Dec 07 17:32:35 <ogra_> which means a rebuild
Dec 07 17:32:47 <GrueMaster> Yes, I figured as such.  More a case of adding support for register dumps during task switches and what-not.
Dec 07 17:33:15 <NekoXP> GrueMaster, no support at all, kernels don't need to change for armhf no matter what
Dec 07 17:34:30 <GrueMaster> I don't know enough about arm architecture, but I would be surprised if it didn't need a little support added for context switching (same as SSE* on x86).
Dec 07 17:34:34 <NekoXP> if it supports floating point units at all, it will dump them as it always did, there's no userspace<->kernel ABI difference as floating point registers can't be used for syscalls
Dec 07 17:34:40 <NekoXP> it's there for softfp
Dec 07 17:35:11 <NekoXP> you have to save floating point registers regardless, but for hardfp userspace gets to *pass arguments* in floating point registers
Dec 07 17:35:27 <NekoXP> but that's only if you're passing a float or double, you can't pass floating point to the kernel
Dec 07 17:35:56 <GrueMaster> Still, if the kernel isnt building for armHF, then some work needs to be done, even if it is only at the package build level.
Dec 07 17:36:30 <NekoXP> right. that said, I would really really like to see someone take the initiative and decouple the kernel arch from the userspace arch :)
Dec 07 17:37:07 <NekoXP> surely dpkg could be modified to have knowledge of a "suitable kernel architecture"...
Dec 07 17:38:17 <GrueMaster> It is more than just dpkg.  A lot of other package managers would also need modifying.
Dec 07 17:38:47 <NekoXP> for instance with this x32 architecture project, that means running 32-bit apps in a 64-bit compatible ABI, it would be another example of different kernels being fully capable of running the same userspace (and x64 already can run a ia32 userspace)
Dec 07 17:39:51 <NekoXP> actually what would be less weird is if any binaries are required to go into packages, mark the package as that ABI. Since binaries that don't use VFP on armel or armhf can run together anyway it will reduce package building for things that don't touch fp at all
Dec 07 17:40:31 <NekoXP> that was the original idea, I guess it's difficult though right?
Dec 07 17:41:05 <NekoXP> but not so different from the differentiation between ${my_running_arch} and "all"?
Dec 07 17:42:37 <GrueMaster> hey, the pandaboard ES is now on pandaboard.org.  Cool.
Dec 07 17:43:52 <GrueMaster> NekoXP: I can already do that partially on arm.  I was running a chroot to an armhf image from an armel image (although I should have used lxc as it left the platform unstable).
Dec 07 17:45:15 <ogra_> just because you mounted /proc :)
Dec 07 17:46:32 <NekoXP> sure, the only incompatibility is if it uses vfp instructions AND uses the vfp abi extension it's basically mutually incompatible for those functions only. If you had libc and libm, libc would be basically completely agnostic.. libm would need to be linked depending on the elf header.. that kind of thing
Dec 07 17:47:04 <NekoXP> the vast majority of stuff doesn't actually throw around fp arguments, but there's some stuff like OpenGL which definitely does and it makes a hell of a difference
Dec 07 17:48:23 <GrueMaster> Well, I think the goal is to switch to armhf before release, and leave armel to bit-rot, making the whole argument moot.
Dec 07 17:48:23 <NekoXP> and even then you could get the benefit of the improved ABI internally, and use assembler stubs or macros to call out to armel libs if need be (or the other way around). I actually do wonder if gcc would use the vfp abi extension for static functions even if it was built with armel?
Dec 07 17:48:30 <NekoXP> good point
Dec 07 17:49:13 <GrueMaster> Aven if we keep armel floating along, it should be easy to run armel packages on an armhf system using multilib.
Dec 07 17:49:21 <GrueMaster> *Even
Dec 07 17:50:04 <GrueMaster> The opposite is not guaranteed to work.
Dec 07 17:50:23 <ogra_> well, moot once we shot down the armel archive
Dec 07 17:52:00 * GrueMaster reads up on the sysboot3 switch on the pandaboard ES.  Switches boot from USB/MMC1 to UART/MMC1.  Useless.
Dec 07 18:06:02 <S0NiC> cu guys
Dec 07 19:08:40 <janimo> xranby, thanks for the pointer
Dec 07 19:50:39 <apw> GrueMaster, has ppisati given you any 3.2 based ti-omap4 kernels to test ?
Dec 07 19:50:54 <GrueMaster> I haven't seen one yet.
Dec 07 19:52:27 <GrueMaster> Nothing on my mirror (updated from ports.u.c bi-hourly).
Dec 07 19:54:32 <infinity> GrueMaster: It's not uploaded/built yet.  apw's just about to do that for us.
Dec 07 19:54:52 <GrueMaster> ah, ok.
Dec 07 19:56:12 <apw> GrueMaster, yeah was wondering if you had had a preview
Dec 07 19:57:00 <GrueMaster> Nope.  Loop {everyone}; me.  Same as always.  :p
Dec 07 19:57:56 <infinity> You and I entered the loop at the same time. :)
Dec 07 19:58:02 <infinity> And I'm not sure anyone else is in it.
Dec 07 19:58:08 <infinity> So, you can claim first this time!
Dec 07 19:58:22 <GrueMaster> This looks prommisint though:  linux-image-3.0.0-1402-omap4_3.0.0-1402.3_armhf.deb on my mirror.
Dec 07 19:58:52 <MrCurious> anyone here have any experience with asm on arm?
Dec 07 19:59:41 <GrueMaster> And netinstall images!  Santa came early last night.
Dec 07 20:00:01 <MrCurious> http://pastebin.com/zkP6Zbbs <-  trying to understand why it doesnt like REGS_TO_SAVE  i think it may be in a invalid format for the __asm__  volatile call
Dec 07 20:00:07 <GrueMaster> (even if my fingers are cramping up and I can't type).
Dec 07 20:00:59 <GrueMaster> Ewww.  gcc inline assembly.
Dec 07 20:01:24 <GrueMaster> Brings back bad memories from my early Intel days.
Dec 07 20:01:27 <apw> GrueMaster, that is the previous kernel, we are taking about jumping that 2 kernel versions :)
Dec 07 20:01:40 <apw> but if you have working netinstall images finally thats great
Dec 07 20:01:56 <MrCurious> if i trim regs to save down to 1, then it flies
Dec 07 20:02:09 <GrueMaster> apw: Understood, but having an armhf kernel for omap4 now means I can have one system play while I way for your spin.
Dec 07 20:02:30 <apw> GrueMaster, sounds like a good things
Dec 07 20:03:20 <infinity> GrueMaster: I'm curious if that omap4 netinst plays up for you.
Dec 07 20:03:42 <GrueMaster> I'll let you know in a few minutes.
Dec 07 20:03:44 <infinity> GrueMaster: If you get the same "everything works, but I get no login" issue, then it's definitely time for me to get digging on reproducing.
Dec 07 20:05:01 <GrueMaster> I was able to get further with init=/bin/sh.  Something in unity seemed to be hosing the system.
Dec 07 20:06:16 <infinity> Unity, feh.
Dec 07 20:06:25 <infinity> Netboot a server install instead of a desktop one? :)
Dec 07 20:06:34 <GrueMaster> Oops.  Meant upstart.
Dec 07 20:06:45 <infinity> Oh.  That's potentially less pleasant.
Dec 07 20:06:58 <infinity> Could be neverending respawning gettys.
Dec 07 20:07:16 <GrueMaster> Does ssh spawn a getty?
Dec 07 20:07:22 <infinity> I think upstart helpfully hides that situation from you, unlike sysv that would spam the console with "YOU'RE FUCKED, MATE".
Dec 07 20:07:41 <GrueMaster> Heh.
Dec 07 20:08:00 <infinity> Hrm, no.  SSH doesn't run a getty binary.  Though, it does still use PTYs.
Dec 07 20:08:00 <GrueMaster> Crap.  Kernel Panic.  initrd issue.
Dec 07 20:08:20 <infinity> Initrd issue? :(
Dec 07 20:08:30 <infinity> Don't tell me I need to fix it harder.
Dec 07 20:08:59 <MrCurious> solved :D
Dec 07 20:09:54 <infinity> Fucksake.  It's still putting it in /lib isn't it?
Dec 07 20:10:02 <infinity> d-i needs a talking to.
Dec 07 20:10:15 <GrueMaster> Looking
Dec 07 20:10:40 <GrueMaster> yep.  Get out the flogging stick.
Dec 07 20:11:11 <infinity> I figured moving it in the udeb would be enough.  Apparently, it's braindead and just flattens everything to /lib >:(
Dec 07 20:11:20 <GrueMaster> No arm-linux-gnueabihf in /lib.
Dec 07 20:11:22 <infinity> Will fix later today.
Dec 07 20:11:29 <infinity> But if you repack that mess, here's hoping it work.
Dec 07 20:11:30 <infinity> s
Dec 07 20:11:39 <infinity> (Works better than omap, that is)
Dec 07 20:12:57 <GrueMaster> I'll have to wait for a little bit (or cobble the boot process manually).  The current setup pxeboots and pulls from my mirror, which is now updating.  If I manually flog uInitrd, it will just get erased.
Dec 07 20:24:25 <GrueMaster> Ok, onward.  Netinstall started.  Moving on.
Dec 07 20:25:05 <GrueMaster> grmbl.  "Loading libc6-udeb failed for unknown reasons. Aborting."
Dec 07 20:27:57 <GrueMaster> infinity: ^^^
Dec 07 20:32:33 <infinity> ...
Dec 07 20:34:06 <infinity> GrueMaster: Anything in syslog?
Dec 07 20:35:37 <GrueMaster> And how do you propose I look when I can't launch a shell or save the log w/o libc6?
Dec 07 20:35:59 <GrueMaster> (logs are in the ramdisk until post-install).
Dec 07 21:08:02 <lool> Error: update-openoffice-dicts not present or executable. Missing dependency on
Dec 07 21:08:05 <lool> dictionaries-common?
Dec 07 21:08:15 <lool> Looks like armhf images will need libreoffice in some way
Dec 07 21:12:27 <infinity> We'll get there.
Dec 07 21:12:36 <infinity> But it also looks like some package is, indeed, missing a dependency. :P
Dec 07 21:12:48 <infinity> (Or missing an [ -x /foo ] guard.
Dec 07 21:12:51 <infinity> )
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