**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 28 02:59:59 2012
Mar 28 06:50:13 <xranby_ac100> whats the best way to determine at runtime if my code are running on a armel or armhf system?
Mar 28 06:51:58 <xranby_ac100> i find myself in the situation that i have two librarys one armel and one  armhf and i must determine which of the two to open at runtime from a no-c based language
Mar 28 06:52:05 <twb> compile an hf binary, if it crashes you're on soft float :P
Mar 28 06:52:20 <xranby_ac100> well .. hehe
Mar 28 06:52:33 <xranby_ac100> yes i was trying to avoid the crash at library load
Mar 28 06:53:03 <twb> IIRC you can have hf and sf processes coeexisting on the same system
Mar 28 06:53:19 <twb> Maybe the kernel has to support hf, but that would be all (that and the hardware, obviously)
Mar 28 06:53:46 <twb> Hmm, I think I'm running a hf chroot without kernel support...
Mar 28 06:54:16 <twb> /proc/cpuinfo isn't helpful
Mar 28 06:54:34 <twb> Oh, yes, there's vfp in the feature list, that's hf right?
Mar 28 06:54:36 <xranby_ac100> the kernel are identical so i cant ask it
Mar 28 06:54:52 <xranby_ac100> vfp can be in the feature list on armel as well
Mar 28 06:55:07 <xranby_ac100> its only the userspace abi that are different
Mar 28 06:55:23 <twb> Hang on, are you saying that you have only one of the libraries installed on any given system?
Mar 28 06:55:52 <xranby_ac100> i have a java application and i have   two native librarys one armel and one armhf
Mar 28 06:56:00 <twb> I thought you were saying you had a mix of hardware, some hf and some sf
Mar 28 06:56:03 <xranby_ac100> i have to determine at runtime which one to load
Mar 28 06:56:22 <xranby_ac100> if i pick the wrong one i crash
Mar 28 06:56:59 <xranby_ac100> the java application itself are platform independent and can run unmodified on armhf and armel so i cant figure out this part at compile thime
Mar 28 06:58:58 <xranby_ac100> i assume python have similar issues
Mar 28 06:59:18 <xranby_ac100> say you got python code that needs to load a native library
Mar 28 06:59:57 <xranby_ac100> can gcc produce fat binarys?
Mar 28 07:00:10 <twb> I don't know
Mar 28 07:00:15 <xranby_ac100> if so then i would be able to load a fat binary with both armel and armhf
Mar 28 07:38:59 <sveinse> I'm running natty and lately I'm always forced to run "sudo update-binfmts --enable qemu-arm" when I'm about to run armel code on intel. Is there a change in policy of late regarding this since it's constantly disabled?
Mar 28 07:55:20 <twb> sveinse: one moment
Mar 28 07:56:10 <twb> http://wiki.debian.org/QemuUserEmulation talks about how to do that
Mar 28 07:56:36 <twb> IME it's always on, but I don't think I've tried it under precise...
Mar 28 07:57:10 <twb> Pretty sure I was doing it under oneiric without troubles
Mar 28 08:02:46 <sveinse> twb, I've been running qemu armel binfmt emulation for a while (years). It's just very lately that I need to run update-binfmts after _every_ boot to enable to execute armel binaries
Mar 28 08:03:05 <twb> New one on me
Mar 28 08:37:54 <ppisati> ogra_: could you test daily image for panda?
Mar 28 08:43:21 <ppisati> janimo`: could you test daily image for panda?
Mar 28 08:47:34 <ogra_> ppisati, i think pgraner did already (he asked questions about some desktopish apps in #ubuntu-release)
Mar 28 08:52:19 <ppisati> ogra_: i've a problem with my test monitor here, could you double check?
Mar 28 08:52:57 <ogra_> well, i'm currently busy with ac100 testing but later today i can probably test panda
Mar 28 09:34:52 <ppisati> ok, so it's ether the video output of my board or my lcd...
Mar 28 10:41:18 <ppisati> ogra_: not even P/omap4 beta1 gives me any vide output, so i'm realy starting to thing it's problem with my panda or with my lcd...
Mar 28 10:41:25 <ppisati> *think
Mar 28 10:41:41 <ogra_> did you try the other video output ?
Mar 28 10:42:40 <ppisati> yes
Mar 28 10:42:46 <ppisati> no output at all
Mar 28 10:42:51 <ppisati> i tried with 3 different kernels
Mar 28 10:42:59 <ppisati> and two preinstalled images
Mar 28 10:43:05 <ppisati> among which the beta1
Mar 28 10:43:18 <ppisati> no i'll do a last test with an O image
Mar 28 10:43:34 <ppisati> after that i'll declare my panda badly wounded
Mar 28 10:43:36 <ashiswin> hey guys, does anyone know which channel I can discuss general ARM processor stuff?
Mar 28 10:45:40 * ogra_ would try #linaro, there are at least a lot of arm employees in there
Mar 28 10:47:55 <ashiswin> thanks ogra_ :)
Mar 28 11:24:39 <ppisati> no video output even in O
Mar 28 11:24:47 <ppisati> nice
Mar 28 11:25:35 <ogra_> try another cable :)
Mar 28 11:25:45 <ogra_> and power on the monitor ;)
Mar 28 13:28:44 <jimerickson> got video ouput on my pandaboard ES with the latest image. thanks guys!
Mar 28 13:34:10 <ogra_> great
Mar 28 13:47:52 <martinald> hi guys
Mar 28 13:48:10 <martinald> playing around with ARM in qemu
Mar 28 13:48:17 <martinald> i've got a basic fluxbox install starting
Mar 28 13:48:36 <martinald> but i can't seem to find a way to increase the oclour depth and/or resolution
Mar 28 13:48:49 <martinald> i'm using the framebuffer driver AFIAK; anyone got any ideas?
Mar 28 14:26:00 <Riddell> still getting my monitor/graphics driver issue (bug 961133) but found a new HDMI monitor that it does work with but only with HDMI output and only at 600x800 resolution
Mar 28 14:26:00 <ubot2> Launchpad bug 961133 in linux "No video output from Ubuntu Desktop ARM Images on my Pandaboard to my DVI monitor" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/961133
Mar 28 14:26:47 * Riddell wonders why this channel exists instead of using #ubuntu-devel
Mar 28 14:52:11 <hrw> Riddell: question is rather 'why you joined here instead of asking on #ubuntu-devel'
Mar 28 14:52:56 <Riddell> hrw: because I think there is a need for arm communications still, that's why I've been arguing for an ubuntu-arm mailing list
Mar 28 14:56:23 <hrw> there was ubuntu-mobile for that
Mar 28 14:56:39 <hrw> and finally got dropped in favour of ubuntu-devel
Mar 28 14:57:04 <Riddell> yes, so it's inconsistent
Mar 28 15:00:01 <Riddell> robclark: I'm to nudge you towards bug 961133 again, still broken with my monitor (but worked with oneiric and works with that 3.3 one you showed me at) but works with an HDMI monitor at 640x480 resolution
Mar 28 15:00:03 <ubot2> Launchpad bug 961133 in linux "No video output from Ubuntu Desktop ARM Images on my Pandaboard to my DVI monitor" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/961133
Mar 28 15:03:11 <janimo`> Riddell, I think ARM  emails should be good for ubuntu-devel if they are developer oriented. ARM should get more and more widespread so bringing it in the discussions more visibly can't hurt
Mar 28 15:05:03 <Riddell> what do I need to test omap (not omap4) images?
Mar 28 15:05:39 <GrueMaster> A beaglexm platform.
Mar 28 15:12:15 <ogra_> even though it might be funny to see kubuntu oin a beagle C4 or A8 *g*
Mar 28 15:32:48 <Riddell> GrueMaster: so that's a beagle board?
Mar 28 15:32:55 <Riddell> ogra_: what's funny about that?
Mar 28 15:33:32 <GrueMaster> Riddell: http://beagleboard.org
Mar 28 15:33:34 <ogra_> Riddell, A has 128M, C has 256M ... both will oops at some point running a full desktop
Mar 28 15:34:12 <ogra_> you dont want to test kubuntu on that :)
Mar 28 15:34:25 <Riddell> ogra_: so how do you test ubuntu desktop images?
Mar 28 15:34:32 <ogra_> oh and they are 400 and 600 MHz
Mar 28 15:34:49 <ogra_> Riddell, we use beagle XM, as GrueMaster stated
Mar 28 15:34:51 <GrueMaster> Riddell: beagleXM.  See above link.
Mar 28 15:34:54 <ogra_> 1GHz/512M
Mar 28 15:35:18 <ogra_> any former revisions arent really for desktop use
Mar 28 15:35:36 <ogra_> (XM is the "current" one)
Mar 28 15:36:06 <Riddell> and while I'm asking what do you use to test mx5 and ac100?
Mar 28 15:36:32 <ogra_> ac100 is teated on an ac100 :)
Mar 28 15:36:43 <ogra_> mx5 is the freescale quickstart board
Mar 28 15:36:47 <GrueMaster> Freescale Quickstart for mx5.
Mar 28 15:37:04 <Riddell> and they're dev board that look a bit like this pandaboard?
Mar 28 15:37:07 <GrueMaster> Although any you buy now are highly likely to not work due to a usb bug.
Mar 28 15:37:32 <ogra_> Riddell, apart from the ac100 they all are dev boards
Mar 28 15:37:37 <GrueMaster> yes, very similar in size.
Mar 28 15:37:49 <ogra_> (ac100 is the little netbook i run around with at events)
Mar 28 15:38:14 <Riddell> ah nice
Mar 28 15:38:38 <ogra_> they are not produced anymore but you can get them chap at ebay or so
Mar 28 15:38:53 <ogra_> like between 100 and 150€
Mar 28 15:38:55 <Riddell> so why do we have images if they're not commercially interesting?
Mar 28 15:39:10 <ogra_> because there is a big community for it
Mar 28 15:39:43 <Riddell> that's very generous of us :)
Mar 28 15:39:43 <ogra_> and the majority uses ubuntu on that device
Mar 28 15:40:15 <ogra_> no, thats very helpful for us, the devs among them help with ubuntu on arm since thats a device they actually *use*
Mar 28 15:40:27 <ogra_> opposed to a dev board ...
Mar 28 15:40:32 <Riddell> ah hah
Mar 28 15:41:04 <ogra_> we tend to get a good amount of bugs (and sometimes also fixes) from that side
Mar 28 15:42:00 <Riddell> ogra_: where do bugs appear in arm?  linux sure and I know there are compiler errors if you don't do your real vs double right in qt but what are the other gotchas?
Mar 28 15:42:58 <ogra_> well, sound servers that down work properly with alsa ... desktop bugs you dont encounter during a short test but that show up after a while of actually using an image etc
Mar 28 15:43:08 <ogra_> just do give two examples
Mar 28 15:43:24 <Riddell> I guess unity-2d gets more of a workout on arm
Mar 28 15:43:42 <Riddell> that name makes me cringe each time I use it
Mar 28 15:44:42 <ogra_> well, we're working on 3D for panda at least
Mar 28 15:45:12 <ogra_> i should have a patch from linaro readily packaged next week or so for compiz
Mar 28 15:45:18 <ogra_> so you can use 3D then
Mar 28 15:46:24 <ogra_> but i doubt it will be fun to use ... will still be slow and slightly buggy
Mar 28 15:46:34 <ogra_> its a start at least :)
Mar 28 15:48:33 <Riddell> I have graphics accelaration on this pandaboard
Mar 28 15:49:01 <Riddell> I don't see any need for unity-"3d" just overhead as far as I can tell
Mar 28 15:49:04 <ogra_> on oneiric
Mar 28 15:49:17 <ogra_> there is no driver for precise yet
Mar 28 15:49:40 <Riddell> hmm I have fancy shadows on my windows which I can turn off when I tell kwin not to use accelaration
Mar 28 15:49:46 <ogra_> sure
Mar 28 15:49:52 <ogra_> SW rendered composite
Mar 28 15:50:05 <ogra_> works even on xfbdev drivers ;)
Mar 28 15:50:19 <ogra_> especially if the system can donate one core to all the SW stuff
Mar 28 15:50:20 <Riddell> mm
Mar 28 15:50:52 <ogra_> there are no drivers installed by default
Mar 28 15:51:01 <ogra_> for oneiric they are in the TI PPA
Mar 28 15:51:23 <ogra_> for precise they sit in NEW and wait for being moved to multiverse
Mar 28 15:51:54 <GrueMaster> For precise, I think they are in -proposed, but I know they are at least waiting for beta freeze to lift before hitting the pool.
Mar 28 15:52:04 <GrueMaster> Oh, new.
Mar 28 15:52:17 <Riddell> -proposed isn't open, we haven't released yet
Mar 28 15:52:25 <ogra_> -proposed is open
Mar 28 15:52:35 <GrueMaster> I had thought they had enabled proposed for stuff to flow into during the freeze.
Mar 28 15:52:36 <ogra_> compiz was built there during the freeze
Mar 28 15:52:39 <Riddell> that's early
Mar 28 15:52:40 <ogra_> right
Mar 28 15:53:01 <ogra_> it is to avoid archive skew through package sets with close dependencies
Mar 28 15:53:02 <GrueMaster> Makes sense.  Keep stuff flowing withouth disrupting beta.
Mar 28 15:53:31 <ogra_> so they can be uploaded and built and once the freeze is lifted the binaries just get copied
Mar 28 15:53:56 <Riddell> clever these archive admins
Mar 28 15:59:08 <infinity> Riddell: We're getting more clever, anyway. :P
Mar 28 16:24:50 <prpplague> GrueMaster / ogra_ any of you guys heard of anyone running ubuntu-arm over on some of the slower arm920's ? i.e. s3c2440?
Mar 28 16:25:09 <ogra_> nope
Mar 28 16:25:37 <GrueMaster> We only support armv7 core.  If they support it, our stuff should run.
Mar 28 16:25:46 <infinity> Would be a neat trick, since they're not v7.
Mar 28 16:25:50 <infinity> And GrueMaster beat me to it.
Mar 28 16:26:10 <prpplague> ahh ok
Mar 28 16:26:11 <ogra_> i think we had some back in jaunty or karmic though
Mar 28 16:26:24 <prpplague> i'll probably look at some angstrom builds them, thanks
Mar 28 16:26:31 <infinity> prpplague: Or Debian.
Mar 28 16:26:37 <ogra_> ++
Mar 28 16:29:06 <infinity> Someone still needs to retroactively rename all of the ARM core designs and ISAs to not confuse people.
Mar 28 16:30:00 * ogra_ votes for "frank" ... or "bill"
Mar 28 16:30:44 <infinity> There.
Mar 28 16:30:47 <ogra_> heh
Mar 29 00:49:57 <olegfink> mythos: hi
Mar 29 00:58:56 <mkopack> Anyone here run Ubuntu on a pandaboard?
Mar 29 01:02:52 <infinity> Lots of people.
Mar 29 01:03:02 <infinity> Just as your question, someone might know the answer.
Mar 29 01:03:54 <mkopack> ok, cool. I'm working on setting up the ubuntu-server image for PandaES… Just wdonering if that already includes the drivers for the Panda's hardware (like the Wifi, bluetooth, gfx, etc.) or if I'll need to install those after the fact ?
Mar 29 01:04:26 <infinity> mkopack: Everything but video is in the default kernel.
Mar 29 01:04:37 <infinity> mkopack: And if you're doing a server, you really shouldn't need video?
Mar 29 01:04:50 <infinity> mkopack: Unless by "server", you mean "set-top box" or something.
Mar 29 01:05:14 <infinity> (Sorry, when I say "video", I mean "accelerated 3D and codec", the display works fine without 3rd party drivers)
Mar 29 01:05:25 <mkopack> What would I have to do to get video going? I don't want a huge desktop (I tried the Ubuntu desktop image and it was HORRIBLY slow and memory intensive). I just need a simple desktop for opening a couple terminals and maybe a light browser like Midori
Mar 29 01:05:46 <infinity> Yeah, that level of "video" is fine on the default image.
Mar 29 01:06:00 <infinity> Though we will be getting TI's binary drivers in the archive over the next week.
Mar 29 01:06:08 <mkopack> Nah, eventually going to use this for ROS (robot OS) but I'll need a simple desktop + terminal windows to get everything going and do some light development/testing/debugging output on
Mar 29 01:06:24 <infinity> Bah, who needs a GUI for that? ;)
Mar 29 01:06:30 <twb> infinity: does it struggle with animated GIFs in midori tho?  my old atom/i9xx doesn't, but my tegra2 does
Mar 29 01:06:31 <infinity> Regular TTYs are great.
Mar 29 01:06:49 <twb> e.g. http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR023.loop.shtml#skip
Mar 29 01:06:51 <infinity> twb: I dunno, I have no issues here with heavier browsers.
Mar 29 01:07:06 <twb> infinity: admittedly i'm still running android kernel here :-(
Mar 29 01:07:27 <infinity> I have no accelerated video on my ac100, and it's just fine.
Mar 29 01:07:38 <twb> okey dokey
Mar 29 01:07:42 <infinity> (Sure would be nice if nvidia got their ducks in a row and release the armhf build they have internally...)
Mar 29 01:08:41 <infinity> mkopack: Anyhow, the server image should "just work" out of the box for all the usecases you seem to care about.
Mar 29 01:08:50 <infinity> mkopack: Should you later decide you need accelerated video, it'll be there.
Mar 29 01:09:04 <infinity> mkopack: And I'd highly suggest using precise/armhf, not any of the older armel releases.
Mar 29 01:10:22 <mkopack> how do I know the diff? (sorry, not a super experienced linux person
Mar 29 01:10:24 <mkopack> )
Mar 29 01:11:14 <infinity> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily-preinstalled/current/ <-- Those.
Mar 29 01:11:30 <infinity> mkopack: Or, if you're installing to a hard drive instead of an SD card, I'd use the netinst images instead.
Mar 29 01:11:39 <infinity> (Since the preinstalled images are meant to run from SD)
Mar 29 01:12:04 <infinity> http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/precise/main/installer-armhf/20101020ubuntu126/images/omap4/netboot/ <-- Netboot.
Mar 29 01:14:20 <mkopack> I'm going with the 11.10 server build for now… Once 12.04 is considered "release" then I'll consider it… Not a fan of living on the bleeding edge :)
Mar 29 01:15:00 <infinity> mkopack: Trust me, 12.04 is better.
Mar 29 01:15:06 <infinity> mkopack: Bleeding edge or not.
Mar 29 01:15:38 <infinity> Both in terms of faster, and less buggy.
Mar 29 01:15:48 <infinity> Joooooin us.
Mar 29 01:16:29 <mkopack> Hmm… well, let me give this a try first… I just want to see that this thing can run better than it did with the 11.10 desktop I tried Monday night. That was pretty discouraging...
Mar 29 01:17:08 <mkopack> So far this seems to be going well - configging the wifi right now
Mar 29 01:17:29 <mkopack> except it seems to insist that it needs a WEP key, and I have WPA2 … sigh
Mar 29 01:18:38 <mkopack> So what's the "precise" mean? I know the diff between hardfp and softfp...
Mar 29 01:23:02 <micahg> mkopack: precise is the release codename
Mar 29 01:23:08 <mkopack> Ah!
Mar 29 01:23:09 <infinity> mkopack: precise is just the release codename. 12.04 = precise, 11.10 = oneiric.
Mar 29 01:24:11 <infinity> To be fair, the desktop runs pretty well when it's backed by a USB hard drive.   Running a full desktop from SD is painful.
Mar 29 01:24:23 <mkopack> which file do I need, the .gz or the .gz.zsync ?
Mar 29 01:24:36 <mkopack> and I assume the instructions for imaging are the same as they were from 11.10 ?
Mar 29 01:24:37 <infinity> For netboot?
Mar 29 01:24:45 <mkopack> for the daily builds
Mar 29 01:24:45 <infinity> Or for server preinstalled?
Mar 29 01:24:50 <mkopack> server preinstall
Mar 29 01:24:50 <infinity> .gz in both cases, mind you.
Mar 29 01:24:55 <infinity> And yeah, imaging is the same.
Mar 29 01:24:59 <mkopack> k
Mar 29 01:25:50 <mkopack> figure I'll image a 2nd card with 12.04 daily while the 11.10 is installing in the panda
Mar 29 02:56:51 <mkopack> HNmm, not having much luck with the 12.04 server daily
Mar 29 02:57:35 <mkopack> First try, after I went and told it account info, network, etc. Picked which functions/packages I wanted, it did some work and then I got what looked like a kernel dump on the screen.
Mar 29 02:58:51 <mkopack> Power cycled and tried again, this time it got past all that and was doing the install. Got to the "Removing Packages" stage at 50% and just hung there for over 30 minutes… No changes. The light closest to the SD slot stopped blinking, the other one would blink twice, wait, then blink twice, over and over
Mar 29 02:58:58 <mkopack> Going back to trying the 11.10
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Mar 29 02:59:58 2012