**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 15 02:59:59 2012 May 15 14:29:49 where can I find more information about how the preinstalled images are created? May 15 14:31:56 specifically what arguments are passed when configuring live-build May 15 14:32:09 they are built using live-build from the archive ... whereas the configs for live-build live in the livecd-rootfs package May 15 14:33:31 (note that this only applies to the content of the rootfs partition indeed) May 15 14:36:54 ogra_: thanks, I'll see if I find what I'm looking for there! May 15 16:50:45 ogra_: hi! so it's really the end of Unity2D? May 15 16:53:42 oh I hope not, the regular one is very buggy May 15 16:55:13 ndec, well, not immediately, for now its just that all development is stopped for 2D May 15 16:55:21 eventually it will vanish though May 15 16:56:08 TypoNAM, make sure to file bugs so the remaining ARM specific issues can be fixed ;) May 15 16:57:44 ogra_: so in 12.10 what would be the non 3D options for ARM? May 15 16:58:01 i mean compiz won't be any better on pandaboard than it is now... May 15 16:58:08 llvmpipe May 15 16:58:14 i don't think we should encourage people to use compiz on pb.. May 15 16:58:16 as soon as I install PowerVR SGX drivers and enable them, unity becomes unstable, redraw problems, and missing the control box, title bar, and borders on all non-maximized windows May 15 16:58:35 TypoNAM: yeah... with compiz i guess? May 15 16:58:40 TypoNAM, right, file bugs please May 15 16:58:56 ogra_: that does not sound too good... May 15 16:59:13 the compiz in precise-updates works very well fo rme on a tegra2 May 15 16:59:38 as you can imagine, i mostly care about omap... May 15 16:59:44 admittedly the unity plugins have issues though ... but different ones than on pamda May 15 16:59:50 *panda May 15 16:59:50 compiz will not work fine on 4430/4460. ever. May 15 16:59:58 why not ? May 15 17:00:10 it's a hw limitation, in the GFX core. May 15 17:00:11 the gles2 code just went upstream May 15 17:00:25 so it should be possible to enhance the quality May 15 17:00:35 ndec: what kind of hardware limitations? :P May 15 17:00:38 4470 and OMAP5 is a different story. but I don't see us focusing on compiz in the next 6 months... May 15 17:01:16 the SGX MMU is limited to 256Mb, which leaves ~160Mb of memory for overal texture. May 15 17:01:32 so at some point you will reach that limit. May 15 17:01:40 interesting May 15 17:02:05 if you open several terminal/windows you should see that. it would either display black (best case) or just crash (more realistic) May 15 17:02:14 is there any documentation you can reference that states that and other things I should be aware of? I'm currently working with a pandaboard ES May 15 17:02:54 but ogra_ the point is that we will not have any product with compiz or llvmpipe on OMAP. so this is the first time we have a so big divergence... May 15 17:03:16 TypoNAM: you should ping robclark he would know the gory details better than me. May 15 17:04:21 ndec, well, it was a sabdfl verdict to drop 2D i think May 15 17:04:26 talk to him May 15 17:04:44 hehe May 15 17:04:50 i'm not thrilled either and would have done it the complete other way round May 15 17:05:02 what's the impact on ubuntu-tv, btw? May 15 17:05:08 it's too using QT/QML. May 15 17:05:15 its a prototype May 15 17:05:21 not a product May 15 17:05:27 the product will be 3D May 15 17:05:38 same for the phone stuff May 15 17:05:44 the phone stuff? May 15 17:05:58 but again, 3D if it's wayland, it's a different story... May 15 17:06:01 and apparentlxy the assumprion is that we can "just" use the android drivers without issues May 15 17:06:21 i doubt it honestly. May 15 17:06:29 me too May 15 17:06:59 the android drivers have intrinsics dependencies on android display driver, which is very different from a standard linux drm/kms display driver. May 15 17:07:00 but then who am i, i only got 4 years of arm experience ... nobody bothered to ask me :P May 15 17:07:25 i think you need to be 5 years exp to be considered ;-) May 15 17:07:35 heh, yeah, likely May 15 17:07:54 no seriously, this is a problem. May 15 17:08:41 well, tallk to the arm team ... oh, wait ... there is none ... May 15 17:09:09 i seriously think the only person to talk to about it (and to convince) is sabdfl May 15 17:09:22 we are killing ubuntu/omap with that decision, at least for the compiz stuff. May 15 17:09:32 we dont have anyone making arm specific decisions in that ragard in the distro anymore May 15 17:11:23 ok. thx. will think through that... May 15 17:11:29 for now, i am heading home ;-) May 15 17:11:47 it might kick the TI guys into gear on proper drivers at least ;) May 15 17:12:42 or more likely kick the Unity guys into gear wrt making it work properly on ARM.. May 15 17:13:05 sure... i know we have problems with our gfx drivers.. May 15 17:13:19 but it might be a little too early to make such a drastic change ... May 15 17:13:34 at least you only need a different gear. Freescale need to build a whole new freeway May 15 17:13:41 what that means is that if we aren't ready in 6 months, ubuntu won't work fine on OMAP May 15 17:14:41 we have our 'new' gfx stack based on the new drm/kms driver that we are actively working, we haven't tried compiz on this one. hopefully that gets us closer... May 15 17:20:06 we're kind of stalling here on gem-dma-buf-prime-cma things all going in. it doesn't seem prudent to do any work at all since it'd just need to get totally rewritten anyway. when you're pulling a graphics stack apart at the roots to port it to DRM anyway, you'd only want to do that once May 15 17:46:14 ndec: ogra_: well, I expect unity 2d to be available for some time still, just not with new features May 15 17:46:37 and the impression I got was that this was also a decision to focus on fixing the remaining issues with compiz and the 3d version May 15 17:47:19 I know there's an issue with the sgx core for panda, but there are a few ways to workaround it I believe May 15 17:48:25 I know llvmpipe is not ideal either, but would be nice to check how it will work and perform on arm May 15 17:49:56 ndec: for ubuntu tv I know they will use nux at least May 15 17:50:01 http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20338/community-q-ubuntu-tv-involvement/ May 15 17:50:35 I just don't know how related it will be with compiz May 15 17:50:51 unless compiz is fixed and improved a lot over the next few months that'll be a problem to support May 15 17:50:55 on arm specifically May 16 00:21:47 ho ho hum May 16 01:36:06 * prpplague grumbles **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 16 03:00:01 2012