**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 30 02:59:58 2012 May 30 11:07:01 hui... i got my pi today =) May 30 11:07:22 and pandaboard es is on its way =) May 30 11:08:11 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Raspberry-Pi-Fedora-Operating-System-8GB-SD-Card-Expanded-/300705977609 May 30 11:08:13 ;) May 30 14:52:41 http://donaldclarkplanb.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/raspberry-pi-7-reasons-why-it-wont-work.html May 30 16:25:44 ogra_: ping May 30 16:26:11 ogra_: dannf found an issue with Debian's flash-kernel that breaks Ubuntu completely, AIUI. Do you have time to discuss it now? May 30 16:26:21 (as in today - I'll be about 20 mintues) May 30 16:26:54 rbasak, yeah, go ahead (will be my last action today too) May 30 16:27:13 dannf: over to you? May 30 16:27:18 i'm aware that f-k will likely need adjustments May 30 16:27:35 though we want to keep them as msall as possible May 30 16:27:36 ogra_: just the linux-base package / linux-version bit May 30 16:27:38 Are you planning on uploading anyway even if we know it won't work? May 30 16:27:47 uploading ? May 30 16:27:48 Or do we want to get a fix in first? May 30 16:27:59 it was synced this morning (EU time) May 30 16:28:02 Ah May 30 16:28:15 So we have a regression and it currently won't work at all for any board? May 30 16:28:55 i will jump on it tomorrow (unless someone fancies to produce a patch tonight) and beat it in shape May 30 16:29:23 I'm concerned about your approach here. Aren't we supposed to be testing first to prevent regressions in the development release? May 30 16:29:28 the plan is to have at least omap and omap4 images ready for A1 so that means i have to touch it :) May 30 16:30:09 rbasak, that would have taken weeks, we're pre A1 which is exactly the time to introduce such changed and fix issues before the first milestone May 30 16:30:17 *changes May 30 16:30:21 * dannf looks at lp:ubuntu/flash-kernel - and yeah, it depends on the linux-version tool from debian's linux-base package May 30 16:30:33 also it was discussed three times at three UDSes to do it that way May 30 16:30:38 ogra_: regressions in d-i for ARM blocks our work. May 30 16:31:06 thats why i warned you ahead of the change May 30 16:31:14 luckily, that means it shouldn't be installable either (luckily for any bleeding edge users) May 30 16:31:21 right May 30 16:31:24 By a day, which didn't really give us any time to work around the issue or prepare a fix in advance May 30 16:31:47 images arent properly buildint anyway yet May 30 16:31:55 *building May 30 16:32:22 (due to buildd issues that were only fixed today too) May 30 16:32:57 in any case this surely wont happen again, but we had to make a hard cut for f-k May 30 16:33:20 since it was 80% hacks that simply werent portable to the new world order May 30 16:33:49 (we forked about 4 years ago and it wasnt updated since, since the hacks would have been broken heavily) May 30 16:34:10 ogra_: one option is probably to discuss pulling in the linux-base package as well May 30 16:34:29 debian has split that out of the linux-2.6 package May 30 16:34:31 right, I'll discuss that with the rest of foundations May 30 16:34:51 but that probably needs to be coordinated w/ the kernel team give the perf wrapper it adds (or disable that wrapper) May 30 16:35:25 we have linux-tools that ships perf iirc May 30 16:35:28 ogra_: i don't think anyone disagrees that rebasing on debian is the right approach; the "how" is biting us, but the "why" is pretty obvious May 30 16:35:54 yeah, debian uses linux-base to chhoose the perf that's compatible w/ the current kernel abi May 30 16:36:10 it doesn't build a perf, just directs to it May 30 16:36:27 linux-base should be installable according to the kernel team May 30 16:37:10 ah - maybe i misesd that; lemme try May 30 16:37:27 as i said, i'll fix the issues tomorrow by A1 f-k should work fine May 30 16:37:56 (and seriously depending on image buolds even before the first milestone was rolled should be reconsidered in your policy) May 30 16:38:34 The trouble is that we can't work using precise, since that's fixed now May 30 16:38:47 eg. highbank needs to go in quantal first before SRU May 30 16:38:53 So we have to work on quantal May 30 16:38:59 that wont work for f-k May 30 16:39:09 Yeah f-k will need an old-style patch for precise May 30 16:39:10 i see it on packages.ubuntu.com, but apt doesn't see it on my armhf/quantal bxo.. /me digs May 30 16:39:12 since they are completely different in both releases May 30 16:39:37 dannf, make sure to use armhf ;) May 30 16:39:37 I'm talking about process though - the general principle that we work on the dev release, and that we need netinst to work on the dev release. May 30 16:39:45 the kernel team doesnt build for el anymore May 30 16:40:06 rbasak, but it is pre-A1 May 30 16:40:33 nobody expects images or the installer to work before that ... this is the only time where such changes can be made May 30 16:40:35 So essentially you're saying that the principle that the development release remains usable does not apply pre-A1? May 30 16:40:38 ogra_: my only armel box is a armv5 running debian, so that's not a problem :) May 30 16:40:48 rbasak, installable May 30 16:41:04 OK, I think I understand your POV now, thanks. May 30 16:41:05 not usable ... using precise and upgrading should always work May 30 16:41:09 mystery solved, linux-base is in universe May 30 16:41:25 installing should work after the first milestone (for the images that made it at least) May 30 16:41:40 dannf, ah, i'll care for the MIr and promotion then May 30 16:41:48 ogra_: ack May 30 16:41:53 dannf, that should keep you safe for d-i then though May 30 16:42:54 i hope to have the worst bits solved before the weekend, the rest will happen during milestone freeze May 30 16:52:05 dannf, rbasak, one other thing with the new f-k ... it wont allow booting without initrd by design, is that an issue for you guys (i assume not, else we can change that) May 30 16:53:15 ogra_: i don't *think* its a problem May 30 16:53:16 (essentially i would like to keep the ubuntu changes close to zero if possible though) May 30 16:53:25 ogra_: +1 May 30 16:53:55 * dannf much prefers hacking on the redesigned version May 30 16:54:19 ++ May 30 16:54:37 We're using an initrd everywhere so I think it's fine May 30 16:54:55 But isn't there a discussion on allowing initrd-less systems in ubuntu at some point? I never understood the motivation for this. May 30 16:54:59 yeah, i though so May 30 16:55:09 yes, i'm the driver behind that May 30 16:55:31 So how is that going to work with a flash-kernel that requires an initrd?:) May 30 16:55:40 and i want to make f-k work without initrd in the future, its just not top on my TODO (i would have moved it if you said its needed) May 30 16:55:56 I see, thanks May 30 16:56:03 the current initrdless ubuntu stuff is blocked on the kernel team anyway May 30 16:56:14 So while you're here, what's the motivation/need for initrdless ubuntu anyway? Is this documented anywhere? May 30 16:56:25 as long as the kernel doesnt learn about UUIDs its moot to move on May 30 16:56:53 rbasak, 10 second boot vs 30 sec on the panda (and likely other u-boot based arches) May 30 16:56:55 faster boot maybe? May 30 16:57:01 right May 30 16:57:06 I see May 30 16:57:16 Wouldn't UUID knowledge end up in the early-userspace code anyway? May 30 16:57:30 The kernel doesn't truly support initrd-less any more anyway - just an embedded miniature initramfs now, right? May 30 16:57:34 well, it would have to be in the kernel itself for us May 30 16:57:56 up to precise initrdless booting still worked fine here May 30 16:58:08 i havent tried anything newer than 3.2 yet May 30 16:58:37 and i bet many embedded people would freak out if linus completely disabled initrdless May 30 16:58:39 OK but it's not been truly initrdless for a while. There's a shim. Knowledge of UUID could be inserted into that shim. May 30 16:59:00 right, that was one of the plans but needs to be done by the kernel team May 30 16:59:08 I see May 30 16:59:09 since that mini initrd lives inside the kernel binary May 30 16:59:13 Yep May 30 16:59:17 I'm with you now - thanks May 30 16:59:42 we'll see if it goes anywhere in the future May 30 17:00:09 ( i start doubting it ... though initrd less booting is on the request list for 5 years or more) May 30 17:00:56 (but so is booting in less than 10sec) May 30 19:48:18 Hello! Is there any documentation/wiki where initrd.img MLO u-boot.img uEnv.txt uImage uInitrd zImage files are individually explained? May 30 19:51:30 orated_: same question was just asked on #beagle and i know you are over there May 30 19:52:39 Oh, that is answered now! I remember same was questioned and I had exactly the same question yesterday :) May 30 19:53:07 Thanks, I'll catch up in that channel May 30 21:48:19 ogra_, rbasak : https://code.launchpad.net/~dannf/flash-kernel/armadaxp/+merge/108066 May 30 22:03:26 ogra_: rbasak : whups, should be : https://code.launchpad.net/~dannf/flash-kernel/armadaxp/+merge/108070 May 30 22:53:21 lilstevie, thanks. Do you know a way to root a tf101g with ICS 4.0.3 on it? I found confusing instructions in the forum which do not seem to work (red-belly android on his back). Should the updater take any image called E101_SUPDATE? May 30 22:54:36 that is old May 30 22:54:41 like really old May 30 22:54:45 um May 30 22:55:09 there is a method that symlinks /data/tmp to /dev/block/mmcblk0p4 that should work May 30 22:55:17 mmcblk0p4 being the staging partition **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 31 02:59:58 2012