**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 17 02:59:58 2012
Aug 17 09:24:55 <ikke-t> hi, is there even theoretical change to get xbmc working on pandaboard?
Aug 17 09:25:29 <ikke-t> i just started it after apt-get install and it is extremely slow, gui updates takes forever
Aug 17 09:27:23 <ogra_> i think linaro offers older xbmc images
Aug 17 09:32:55 <LetoThe2nd> ikke-t: http://rsalveti.wordpress.com/2012/07/29/pre-built-images-for-xbmc-ubuntu-12-04-based-with-hw-acceleration-finally-available-at-linaro/
Aug 17 09:36:38 <ikke-t> thanks, I'll give it a spin.
Aug 17 12:14:08 <ogra_> infinity, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1152481/ how about that for finiding the root UUID ?
Aug 17 12:15:40 <ogra_> (for flash-kernel)
Aug 17 12:28:52 <jimerickson> omap4+armhf Aug-17 image the install fails with a system error on pandaboard ES. also there is no desktop in the live image just the 2 icons.
Aug 17 12:29:46 <ogra_> expected, there are no 3D drivers on the image and unity-2d was dropped
Aug 17 12:29:54 <jimerickson> ok thanks
Aug 17 12:30:09 <ogra_> thats unlikely to change in the short term
Aug 17 12:30:31 <jimerickson> i will keep that in mind
Aug 17 12:57:02 <ppisati> but the "system error" sounds scary
Aug 17 13:02:48 <ogra_> ppisati, agreed
Aug 17 13:14:22 <ppisati> ogra_: i'm planning the 3.5 upload today, what's the state of the image?
Aug 17 13:14:37 <ogra_> server seems to be fine
Aug 17 13:14:50 <ogra_> desktop is dead and will stay so until we have the 3D driver
Aug 17 13:15:24 <ppisati> what?!?!
Aug 17 13:16:51 <ogra_> ppisati, see above
Aug 17 13:17:07 <ogra_> ubuntu doesnt ship any 2D capable desktop anymore since yesterday
Aug 17 13:18:34 <ppisati> so, no matter what we do, next omap4 desktop image is going to be broken
Aug 17 13:19:05 <ogra_> yes
Aug 17 13:19:27 <ogra_> until we have a working PVR driver
Aug 17 13:19:31 <ppisati> can't remember...
Aug 17 13:19:51 <ppisati> but i think i tried unity on omap4 without pvr driver
Aug 17 13:20:05 <ogra_> sure that wasnt unity-2d ?
Aug 17 13:20:09 <ppisati> no
Aug 17 13:20:17 <ppisati> but again
Aug 17 13:20:19 <ppisati> i could be wrong
Aug 17 13:20:27 <ppisati> i've my panda connected
Aug 17 13:20:29 <ppisati> let me try
Aug 17 13:20:48 <ogra_> ubiquity and the install should work (if there isnt a ubiquity bug indeed)
Aug 17 13:20:57 <ogra_> they both dont use 3D
Aug 17 13:21:18 <ogra_> but you wont be able to run a desktop session nor will you have a desktop after install
Aug 17 13:25:13 <ppisati> flag@panda:~$ dpkg -l | grep pvr
Aug 17 13:25:14 <ppisati> flag@panda:~$ uname -a
Aug 17 13:25:14 <ppisati> Linux panda 3.5.0-207-omap4 #13 SMP PREEMPT Fri Aug 17 13:02:27 UTC 2012 armv7l armv7l armv7l GNU/Linux
Aug 17 13:25:25 <ppisati> and i'm logged in a ubuntu session
Aug 17 13:25:35 <ogra_> on todays image ?
Aug 17 13:25:37 <ppisati> it's still P/omap4 userbase
Aug 17 13:26:00 <ogra_> precise automatically falls back to unity-2d
Aug 17 13:26:06 <ogra_> ps ax|grep unity-2d
Aug 17 13:26:16 <ppisati> ogra_: uhm no
Aug 17 13:26:31 <ogra_> qunatal dropped all fallback mechnaisms yesterday
Aug 17 13:26:32 <ppisati> ogra_: yes
Aug 17 13:26:35 <ppisati> ogra_: you are right
Aug 17 13:26:40 <ppisati> ogra_: it's unity2d
Aug 17 13:26:43 <ppisati> crap...
Aug 17 13:26:46 <ogra_> i.e no desktop from todays image on
Aug 17 13:27:27 <ogra_> dont tell me :)
Aug 17 13:28:27 <ppisati> is skaet aware of this?
Aug 17 13:31:57 <ogra_> ppisati, i would assume so ... will ask her in the release meeting today :)
Aug 17 13:36:34 <ppisati> ogra_: i'm just following up in the "Unity Going Forward" thread right now
Aug 17 13:37:06 <ogra_> fyi the plan is to get PVR on the image by default
Aug 17 13:37:48 <ogra_> all other arm desktops will have to swithc to something else
Aug 17 13:39:20 <ogra_> ppisati, also see the last paragraph here https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001754.html
Aug 17 13:40:20 * ppisati is officialy sad...
Aug 17 13:41:54 <ogra_> ppisati, same here ... especially after rickspencer3 announced arm desktop should be a first class citizen .... we will lose all non panda testers
Aug 17 13:41:57 <lilstevie> ogra_, unless the tegra driver ever gets fixed I am going to have to switch :(
Aug 17 13:42:08 <rickspencer3> grrrrrr
Aug 17 13:42:20 <ogra_> (and even the ones using panda will pretty quickly uninstall unity and go with something that doesnt block their video playback)
Aug 17 13:42:41 <ogra_> rickspencer3, why grr ? it is what it is
Aug 17 13:42:41 <rickspencer3> ogra_, I guess we can keep Unity 2d alive ourselves for the panda board (assuming that's what you were discussing)
Aug 17 13:42:57 <rickspencer3> ogra_, you are right
Aug 17 13:43:02 <ogra_> rickspencer3, well, i dont really want to have to special case official images ...
Aug 17 13:43:26 <rickspencer3> tbh, I don't blame them for dropping 2d under the circumstances
Aug 17 13:43:30 <ogra_> i was assuming unity-2d stays around in universe anyway and planning to probably switch ac100 to it ...
Aug 17 13:43:48 <ogra_> and beagle probably too
Aug 17 13:44:06 <ogra_> as i understand the panda image it should not differ from normal desktop if possible
Aug 17 13:44:20 <ogra_> so people will actually test 3D experience on arm
Aug 17 13:44:59 <ogra_> the prob here is that the GPU is already fully loaded when using unity on that device
Aug 17 13:45:22 <ogra_> if you want to play a full HD movie while compositing is enabled, the gPU goes to its knees
Aug 17 13:45:51 <ogra_> oh, and indeed the gstreamer hacks from TI dont allow to play any non HD movies anymore :)
Aug 17 13:46:32 <ogra_> so i fear people will rather have not such a positive experience even though we can demo the bling now
Aug 17 13:50:58 <rickspencer3> ogra_, the good news is that they are setting up Unity 3d with a mode where there are limited effects so that it can run ok in KVM
Aug 17 13:51:06 <rickspencer3> maybe this will work
Aug 17 13:51:22 <ogra_> might, depends on how much composite that will need
Aug 17 13:52:59 <rickspencer3> I wonder if we can hack it a bit to make it even lighter?
Aug 17 14:17:22 <ogra_> heh
Aug 17 14:17:33 * ogra_ just stumbled over lscpu
Aug 17 14:17:40 <ogra_> what a pointless tool on arm
Aug 17 14:21:46 <ppisati> ogra_: going to pull 3.5 Q/omap4 about now...
Aug 17 14:22:09 <ogra_> \o/
Aug 17 15:10:24 <GrueMaster> I still think 3D only Unity is an overall bad idea.  Has it been tested with remote desktop instances?  (not VNC)
Aug 17 15:12:47 * robclark wonders how well llvmpipe works on arm..
Aug 17 15:12:58 <robclark> ie. how much is it going to suck if you don't have 3d drivers
Aug 17 15:13:50 <ogra_> it doesnt work at all afaik
Aug 17 15:13:59 <robclark> btw.. is there an easy way to disable apport?  When I'm debugging x11 and gfx stuff and I know that things are crashing, it would be nice not to get flooded w/ "a problem has happend" dialogs
Aug 17 15:14:17 <ogra_> yeah, /etc/default/apport
Aug 17 15:14:23 <robclark> cool, thx
Aug 17 15:14:39 <robclark> hmm, no llvmpipe.. I wonder how well unity-3d would work out of the box when you have no 3d?
Aug 17 15:15:26 <GrueMaster> About as well as it does now.  Not at all.
Aug 17 15:15:52 <GrueMaster> Users will be greated with a nice pretty blank (albeit orange & purple) screen.
Aug 17 15:15:59 <robclark> heh.. well, I do have unity 3d working here now (on 12.04.. but w/ an special kernel
Aug 17 15:16:30 <robclark> basically I need to do something a bit more extreme and bypass most of omapdss to solve the special effects that you get otherwise
Aug 17 15:17:14 <robclark> this omap ppa for precise plus this kernel works fine w/ unity3d: http://people.freedesktop.org/~robclark/try9
Aug 17 15:50:29 <rsalveti> at least it seems that with the new compiz things are working way better than before
Aug 17 15:50:39 <rsalveti> way faster
Aug 17 15:50:49 <rsalveti> but would be indeed nice to check with llvmpipe
Aug 17 15:51:00 <rsalveti> but don't know if people already tested for x86
Aug 17 15:51:39 <ogra_> all i know about current llvmpipe status is that it simply dies on arm
Aug 17 15:51:51 <ogra_> not talking from experience though
Aug 17 15:55:26 <rsalveti> but I don't yet know if it's functional at x86 still
Aug 17 15:56:07 <ogra_> it apparently is, but requires a ton of horesepower
Aug 17 16:10:50 <balloons> ogra_, I wanted to ask you about the new kernel being pushed out for the arm images.. will it solve the not able to boot the desktop bug or no?
Aug 17 16:11:16 <balloons> what are the plans for implementing a 3d driver or othewise getting support for unity3d on a pandaboard?
Aug 17 16:12:20 <ogra_> we have a 3D driver that we plan to put onto the images once it works
Aug 17 16:12:47 <balloons> ogra_, is that timelined to happen this cycle or no?
Aug 17 16:13:09 <ogra_> its in TIs and linaros hands ... but i would asume so, yes
Aug 17 16:13:38 <ogra_> until it is there (and until the compiz GLES bits are actually in the package which they arent either) we wont have a desktop
Aug 17 16:14:22 <rsalveti> yes, hopefully in the next few days
Aug 17 16:14:27 <rsalveti> goal is before feature freeze :-)
Aug 17 16:14:41 <ogra_> right, but that doesnt give us compiz yet :)
Aug 17 16:15:06 <rsalveti> when is compiz going to be pushed?
Aug 17 16:15:10 <rsalveti> after feature freeze?
Aug 17 16:15:20 <rsalveti> doesn't seems right :-)
Aug 17 16:15:25 <ogra_> no idea, i would assume before ...
Aug 17 16:15:38 <ogra_> but they know GLES is an essential bit this time
Aug 17 16:15:52 <ogra_> so they might delay for it and make it an FFe
Aug 17 16:27:35 <infinity> Ooo, a 3.5.0 omap4 kernel.
Aug 17 16:27:38 <infinity> Does it work?
Aug 17 16:27:48 <rsalveti> works better than the 3.4 one
Aug 17 16:27:52 <rsalveti> at least on panda ES
Aug 17 16:27:58 <infinity> Shiny.
Aug 17 16:28:23 <ogra_> yeah
Aug 17 16:28:29 <rsalveti> didn't have a freeze with 3.5, with 3.4 it was happening mostly on every boot
Aug 17 16:28:38 <rsalveti> probably because of the powermanagement issues we had with it
Aug 17 16:29:01 <rsalveti> ogra_: we're using the WIP compiz package at the linaro ppa, and it's working quite well already
Aug 17 16:29:04 <ogra_> my panda test install is running without issues since wed.
Aug 17 16:29:15 <rsalveti> so I think they are getting closer to the point of actually pushing the new package to ubuntu
Aug 17 16:29:20 <ogra_> rsalveti, plain upstream ?
Aug 17 16:29:38 <ogra_> well, yes, i was quite pushy the last weeks :)
Aug 17 16:29:48 <rsalveti> I think there are still a few minor pieces that are part of another branch, but most already got merged
Aug 17 16:30:05 <ogra_> but they were still drowning in gsettings issues until very recently
Aug 17 16:30:18 <rsalveti> oh, ok
Aug 17 16:30:26 <rsalveti> so probably blocked by some other generic issues then
Aug 17 16:30:39 <ogra_> well, as long as we have *any* desktop by release day i'm happy :)
Aug 17 16:30:45 <rsalveti> :-)
Aug 17 16:30:57 * ogra_ starts to prepare an openbox fallback session ... just in case :P
Aug 17 16:32:48 <ogra_> rsalveti, oh, btw ... bug 1035407
Aug 17 16:32:50 <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1035407 in pvr-omap4 "pvr-omap4 package doesn't declare a dependency on the corresponding X video ABI" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035407
Aug 17 16:33:18 <ogra_> do you want to fix that with your new upload or does it make any sese if i upload a fix with the current package from the archive
Aug 17 16:33:27 <rsalveti> let's fix it with the new one
Aug 17 16:33:40 * ogra_ thought so
Aug 17 16:33:45 <ogra_> seems thats a new policy
Aug 17 16:34:17 <rsalveti> I thought initially that the abi wouldn't be an issue because the driver is part of a hook at the -omap one
Aug 17 16:34:24 <rsalveti> but it seems that both needs to match
Aug 17 16:34:46 <ogra_> for dependencies in any case
Aug 17 16:35:12 <rsalveti> yeah
Aug 17 16:35:16 <ogra_> and isnt the driver also linked against the xlibs somewhere ?
Aug 17 16:35:33 <ogra_> or does -omap completely shield that off
Aug 17 16:35:47 <rsalveti> would need to check, but it's probably linked to xlibs and dri as well
Aug 17 16:36:18 <ogra_> yeah, so thats bound to the abi then
Aug 17 16:37:09 <infinity> Depending on the X ABI isn't even remotely a new policy, it's just that binary drivers got it wrong in the past.
Aug 17 16:37:32 <infinity> And pvr-omap4's packaging was cargo-culted from nvidia or fglrx, so inherited the same wrongness. :P
Aug 17 16:37:45 <ogra_> yep
Aug 17 16:38:17 <ogra_> tegra has the issue as well ... but i'm waiting for nvidia for that one
Aug 17 16:42:11 <ogra_> infinity, soo, for flash-kernel i was thinking about something like this:
Aug 17 16:42:18 <ogra_> UUID=$(blkid -o value $(mount 2>/dev/null| grep "on /${1%/} " | tail -n1 | cut -d' ' -f1) 2>/dev/null|head -1)
Aug 17 16:42:47 <ogra_> do you think relying on the mount output is enough or should i also check other places (fstab etc)
Aug 17 16:42:51 <ppisati> rsalveti: 3.4 Q/omap4 was an exact photocopy of tilt/tilt-tracking back then, so you should have hit the same problem with both
Aug 17 16:43:05 <rsalveti> probably
Aug 17 16:43:14 <rsalveti> the latest 3.4 one behaves better as well
Aug 17 16:47:44 <infinity> ogra_: fstab has no guarantee of being right.
Aug 17 16:47:57 <ogra_> yeah, i thought so
Aug 17 16:48:20 <ogra_> its just that it will complain (or find nothing) if /proc isnt mounted
Aug 17 16:48:27 <infinity> ogra_: Well, especially in the case where, say, you've moved the filesystem and are re-running flash-kernel specifically to fix things.
Aug 17 16:50:00 <infinity> ogra_: Relying on proc for bootloader functions seems perfectly reasonable for me.  It should error out if [ ! -d /proc/1 ] or something.
Aug 17 16:50:14 <ogra_> yep
Aug 17 16:51:00 <ogra_> looking at that line above i should probably scatter a few more "2>/dev/null" over it :P
Aug 17 16:51:04 * ogra_ is embarassed
Aug 17 16:57:32 <jocarter> heh
Aug 18 00:11:16 <elfy> hello and good to see channel
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Aug 18 03:00:00 2012