**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Nov 16 02:59:58 2012
Nov 16 04:01:51 <shPikachu> hi ppl
Nov 16 04:02:14 <shPikachu> i want to install ubuntu 12.10 to a SD card for using it in my pandaboard
Nov 16 04:02:29 <shPikachu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OmapDesktopInstall
Nov 16 04:02:41 <shPikachu> can i install it to a SD instead of a flash drive?
Nov 16 04:02:48 <shPikachu> i mean, usb drive
Nov 16 04:06:07 <TheMuso> shPikachu: So you want to install to a USB flash drive correct?
Nov 16 04:06:24 <shPikachu> no, to the same SD card where the image is
Nov 16 04:07:29 <shPikachu> its possible?
Nov 16 04:07:53 <infinity> It's not supported, though it's technically possible.
Nov 16 04:08:43 <TheMuso> Its much better to run from a USB connected rotery disk.
Nov 16 04:08:51 <infinity> Indeed.
Nov 16 04:08:54 <infinity> Much, much better.
Nov 16 04:10:50 <TheMuso> And IMO a notebook drive is sufficient, since USB disk transfer still requires some CPU, so you're going to max out and get the best possible transfers, but my understanding could be incorrect WRT USB and CPU usage.
Nov 16 04:11:42 <shPikachu> i cant to that in this project since its an embedded system
Nov 16 04:11:53 <shPikachu> :(
Nov 16 04:12:48 <shPikachu> i looked for a preinstalled 12.10
Nov 16 04:12:58 <shPikachu> but i didnt find it
Nov 16 04:13:03 <TheMuso> There isn't one.
Nov 16 04:13:08 <shPikachu> ow
Nov 16 04:13:11 <TheMuso> There is for 12.04 though IIRC.
Nov 16 04:13:50 <shPikachu> i tested that one but it doesnt have some graphics driver
Nov 16 04:14:28 <shPikachu> and i wasnt able to install it , though, because of "broken dependencies"
Nov 16 04:15:31 <shPikachu> the package is : PowerVR SGX540
Nov 16 04:15:56 <shPikachu> if anybody knows how to make the driver work in 12.04 ill be thankful
Nov 16 04:16:24 <TheMuso> I think 12.10 has the prv-omap4 package, which is what you want. You don't need to use any panda/TI PPAs, again IIRC>
Nov 16 04:17:00 <shPikachu> whats IIRC i dont know
Nov 16 04:17:05 <shPikachu> :)
Nov 16 04:17:14 <lilstevie> if I recall correctly
Nov 16 04:18:35 <shPikachu> TheMuso : how would you install 12.10 for arm into a SD card?
Nov 16 04:21:48 <TheMuso> shPikachu: I wouldn't.
Nov 16 04:22:07 <shPikachu> :(
Nov 16 04:22:09 <shPikachu> heh
Nov 16 04:22:15 <shPikachu> ok thanks for your help
Nov 16 04:22:32 <TheMuso> shPikachu: You could run a netboot image.
Nov 16 04:22:50 <TheMuso> shPikachu: That would use a text-mode debian-installer to boot and install voer the network, and would thenwhipe and install your system to the Sd card that way.
Nov 16 04:24:41 <shPikachu> ill check for that then
Nov 16 04:24:45 <shPikachu> thank you
Nov 16 04:24:48 <shPikachu> :)
Nov 16 04:25:02 <TheMuso> np
Nov 16 04:25:07 <TheMuso> No problem.
Nov 16 07:42:13 <dholbach> good morning
Nov 16 07:42:51 <[mbm]> not yet.
Nov 16 08:33:02 <evilmoo> hello
Nov 16 08:33:17 <evilmoo> what would it take to rebuild ubuntu to support ARMv5?
Nov 16 08:34:07 <xranby> evilmoo: the quickest way is to install debian
Nov 16 08:34:07 <suihkulokki> evilmoo: you could just install debian and save the effort
Nov 16 08:34:23 * suihkulokki notices some echoes in the chamber
Nov 16 08:34:23 <infinity> evilmoo: Also, you might want to try Debian.
Nov 16 08:35:15 <evilmoo> if I didn't want to go the debian route, how would I do it?
Nov 16 08:35:38 <xranby> evilmoo:it takes 20+ armv5 machines running 24h/7 for at least 2 months to get anywhere near a rebuild of ubuntu
Nov 16 08:35:39 <infinity> evilmoo: If you really, really, really wanted to fork Ubuntu for armv5, I can let you in on a little secret, that all of main for quantal/armel was rebuilt for v5t.
Nov 16 08:35:47 <infinity> evilmoo: So, that would be a good starting point.
Nov 16 08:36:08 <evilmoo> infinity: that's a good secret to know. thank you
Nov 16 08:36:10 <xranby> infinity: really! thats great news :)
Nov 16 08:36:14 <infinity> evilmoo: That said, we're dropping armel entirely in raring as we speak, so going forward, we'll only support armhf.
Nov 16 08:36:18 <xranby> infinity: i thought armel was about to get dropped
Nov 16 08:36:29 <infinity> xranby: It was.  Note that I said "in quantal". :P
Nov 16 08:36:39 <infinity> quantal/armel/main is pure v5t.
Nov 16 08:36:49 <infinity> Which one could use to bootstrap something else, I suppose.
Nov 16 08:37:15 <infinity> But yeah, going forward, we're only doing armhf (which is v7-only) and, of course, arm64.
Nov 16 08:37:29 <lilstevie> I'm looking forward to arm64
Nov 16 08:37:40 <infinity> Me too.
Nov 16 08:37:49 <infinity> I'm looking forward to wiping the slate clean.
Nov 16 08:37:56 <lilstevie> hopefully the inconsistencies will clean slate
Nov 16 08:37:57 <lilstevie> heh
Nov 16 08:37:59 <lilstevie> same reason
Nov 16 08:38:01 <lilstevie> er
Nov 16 08:38:17 <lilstevie> s/will clean/will disappear with a clean/
Nov 16 08:38:26 <infinity> And, with any luck, Arnd ruling with an iron fist and refusing to let people splinter platform support.
Nov 16 08:38:30 <evilmoo> just as long as we don't get all new shiny inconsistencies
Nov 16 08:39:01 <lilstevie> infinity, yeah, I saw that document recently, certainly will be a welcomed change
Nov 16 08:39:21 <lilstevie> infinity, my biggest concern is the next step with device trees
Nov 16 08:41:55 <infinity> lilstevie: There's a lot of pressure from various directions for $hardware_detection_method_of_the_day to work fairly well on armv8 server platforms, at least.  It's when someone decides we need 64-bit tablets and phones and starts diverging into sketchy places again that I'll worry.
Nov 16 08:42:38 <infinity> lilstevie: And, to be fair, that's always been an issue in x86-land too, except for the part where 99.9% of the x86 kit we care about it desktops/laptops/servers, and most people compltely ignore x86 embedded that lacks standard BIOS/ACPI/etc.
Nov 16 08:42:49 <infinity> s/about it/about is/
Nov 16 08:43:06 <lilstevie> infinity, yeah, it is more with UEFI pushing ACPI and everyone else pushing FDT
Nov 16 08:43:22 <lilstevie> infinity, this is true, I myself am guilty of forgetting about x86 embedded
Nov 16 08:43:25 <infinity> lilstevie: ACPI and FDT can coexist quite happily, even in the kernel.
Nov 16 08:43:36 <lilstevie> infinity, that is good to know
Nov 16 08:46:44 <infinity> But yeah.  Never will there be a perfect compile-once-detect-everywhere solution, so long as people like to do crazy things.
Nov 16 08:47:05 <infinity> The hope is that, like in the x86 world, the 99% follow some sane standards, and the 1% that don't are happy not being able to run general-purpose OSes.
Nov 16 08:47:27 <infinity> (There's plenty of embedded x86 kit that runs Linux, but you'd never be able to boot a generic distro kernel on it)
Nov 16 08:47:54 <lilstevie> I've never really even heard of them
Nov 16 08:48:06 <infinity> You're a lucky man. ;)
Nov 16 08:48:17 <lilstevie> the only embedded x86 that comes to mind is medfield cellphones
Nov 16 08:48:20 <infinity> But hey, they still sell i386s in volume.
Nov 16 08:48:26 <infinity> And they're VERY low power now. :P
Nov 16 08:48:32 <lilstevie> heh
Nov 16 08:48:50 <infinity> And by i386, I mean 80386, not the arch.
Nov 16 08:48:56 <lilstevie> I figured
Nov 16 08:53:59 <infinity> I should probably sleep some day.
Nov 16 08:54:54 <lilstevie> nah
Nov 16 08:54:59 <lilstevie> sleep is for the weak :p
Nov 16 08:55:03 <suihkulokki> I don't remember i386 being currently sold, but Vortex86 which is i486 compatible is still being sold at least
Nov 16 08:55:57 <lilstevie> My biggest hope though is for arm64 is better performance, kernel compiles are down to about 20min on my tegra3, would love  to see just a bit faster
Nov 16 09:58:42 <hrw> suihkulokki: vortex... please...
Nov 16 09:58:57 <hrw> suihkulokki: I have vortex86sx somewhere... and you had to remind me that ;(
Nov 16 09:59:15 <lilstevie> lol
Nov 16 09:59:44 <hrw> linux needs fpu emulator compiled in to boot
Nov 16 11:00:50 <suihkulokki> hrw: yes I have to remind people about that when someone complains arm is bad ;)
Nov 16 11:01:50 <hrw> vortex86sx is not even debian compatible (req own kernel)
Nov 16 12:01:29 <wookey> some shoniy arm64 status: http://people.linaro.org/~wookey/buildd/quantal-arm64/sbuild-ma/status-bootstrap.html
Nov 16 12:03:25 <wookey> there is some stuff that 'worked for me' so I need to check what's up, but it's a reasonable summary of current status
Nov 16 15:48:51 <achiang> ogra-cb: janimo: mfisch: cwayne: ssweeny: will you be able to attend the nexus7 meeting in 12 minutes?
Nov 16 15:49:01 <ssweeny> achiang, yes
Nov 16 15:49:05 <janimo> achiang, I am there
Nov 16 15:49:06 <cwayne> achiang: its irc right?
Nov 16 15:49:14 <achiang> yep, #ubuntu-meeting
Nov 16 15:49:14 <janimo> cwayne, #ubuntu-meeting
Nov 16 15:49:20 <cwayne> thanks, im in
Nov 16 15:49:35 <ogra_> indeed
Nov 16 15:49:36 <achiang> cool, be prepared to give a 1-line summary of what you are working on when i call on you. :)
Nov 16 16:02:06 <brendand> achiang, what's the line on bug reports which have nothing to do with the nexus 7 but are filed in that project?
Nov 16 16:11:53 <cwayne> brendand: we link them to an upstream
Nov 16 16:12:03 <cwayne> if its seen on nexus7, then it has something to do with nexus 7
Nov 16 16:12:22 <brendand> cwayne, !
Nov 16 16:12:38 <cwayne> brendand: ?
Nov 16 16:14:16 <brendand> cwayne, so for example: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7/+bug/421660
Nov 16 16:14:17 <ubot2> Launchpad bug 421660 in ubuntu-nexus7 "gksu's and gksudo's modal password prompt prevents OnBoard's virtual keyboard input, causing accessibility issues" [High,Confirmed]
Nov 16 16:14:41 <brendand> and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7/+bug/1077743
Nov 16 16:14:42 <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1077743 in ubuntu-nexus7 "gnome-screenshot isn't run via hotkey when menus open" [Low,Confirmed]
Nov 16 16:15:33 <cwayne> brendand: think of this as sort of a '100 papercuts' type of project.  these bugs affect the image on nexus7, and were logged there, so they stay at least linked to the n7
Nov 16 16:17:05 <brendand> cwayne, that's only going to be sustainable if there doesn't get to be a lot of these
Nov 16 16:18:07 <cwayne> brendand: with them affecting n7, it gives us more leverage to go to the upstreams and say 'hey, why hasn't this bug been looked at it 2 years?'
Nov 16 16:18:38 <brendand> cwayne, why wouldn't you do the same thing in the absence of the nexus7?
Nov 16 16:18:59 <brendand> they affect *everything*
Nov 16 16:19:13 <cwayne> because im not trolling around upstream bugs finding ones that havent been touched in 2 years
Nov 16 16:19:43 <dholbach> maybe autologin/multi-user should be added to the FAQ
Nov 16 16:20:03 <cwayne> dholbach: +1, ill take an action to add it
Nov 16 16:20:12 <dholbach> sweet :)
Nov 16 16:20:13 <dholbach> thanks
Nov 16 16:51:17 <dholbach> you guys are awesome!
Nov 16 16:57:49 <Snark> my toshiba AC100 is showing signs of weakness (hinges...), so I'm looking around for replacement -- on which devices is it easy to use ubuntu?
Nov 16 16:58:10 <ogra-cb> chromebook :)
Nov 16 16:58:12 <Snark> (I'm thinking about things like the samsung nexus 10, asus transformers...)
Nov 16 16:58:19 <ogra-cb> though its only partitally there yet
Nov 16 16:58:25 <ogra-cb> and indeed the nexus7
Nov 16 17:01:11 <Snark> 16Go is a little short, but if there's an SD port, it's good
Nov 16 17:01:50 <tassadar__> there is 32gb version of nexus 7 now
Nov 16 17:02:39 <dholbach> achiang, the pinning bits are on the wiki now - I'll just double check if they should also live somewhere else
Nov 16 17:03:22 <mfisch> thanks dholbach
Nov 16 17:03:38 <mfisch> achiang: can we get someone working on the rotation issues?
Nov 16 17:03:54 <Snark> tassadar__, 7inch is a bit too small... I'll be mostly reading on that device
Nov 16 17:04:06 <achiang> update on stuck button bug - http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2012-November/034449.html
Nov 16 17:04:52 <achiang> dholbach: awesome!
Nov 16 17:05:00 <dholbach> alright my friends - time to call it a day and clean up this place - I'll have guests over in a bit
Nov 16 17:05:04 <dholbach> have a great weekend :)
Nov 16 17:05:15 <achiang> mfisch: alright, let's work on that this in a bit.
Nov 16 17:05:19 <mfisch> dholbach: I hope your spinning some beats for them
Nov 16 17:05:58 <dholbach> mfisch, cooking :)
Nov 16 17:06:03 <dholbach> so, got go go :)
Nov 16 17:06:04 <dholbach> see you
Nov 16 17:06:07 <mfisch> bye
Nov 16 17:06:09 <ogra-cb> ciao dholbach
Nov 16 17:06:37 <dholbach> bye :)
Nov 16 17:07:14 * ogra-cb will be in berlin tomorrow, but as usual likely not manage to visit you 
Nov 16 17:07:21 <ogra-cb> bah, to slow :P
Nov 16 17:08:02 * mfisch introduced a friend to Berliner Weisse last weekend, he was amazed
Nov 16 17:08:26 <ogra-cb> hehe, yeah, its lovely
Nov 16 17:08:36 <ogra-cb> though rather something for hot summer evenings
Nov 16 17:08:46 <mfisch> wikipedia says uncommon these days in berlin?
Nov 16 17:09:25 <ogra-cb> dunno, i rarely drink in berlin :) dholback or doko would know
Nov 16 17:09:56 <ogra-cb> i still like it at times, but i'm no "berliner"
Nov 16 17:10:49 <mfisch> since the US has no "style" of beer that's been brewed for 1000 years and no Reinheitsgebot we can drink almost anything
Nov 16 17:13:11 <achiang> ich bin ein berliner
Nov 16 17:13:47 <Snark> achiang, s/berliner/Berliner/ if I don't err
Nov 16 17:14:44 <vanhoof> mfisch: we do have Mickeys my man!
Nov 16 17:15:50 <mfisch> achiang had a 40 party once
Nov 16 17:16:04 <mfisch> the challenge is the last 1/3 of the bottle, when it's all warm
Nov 16 17:18:13 <cwayne> mfisch: not if you do it fast enough
Nov 16 17:19:40 <achiang> relevant: http://www.40cozy.com/
Nov 16 17:22:58 <vanhoof> achiang: edward 40 hands?
Nov 16 17:23:00 <vanhoof> ;)
Nov 16 17:29:48 <sfeole> cwayne: taking a look at this FAQ i'm going to start from the top and work my way down
Nov 16 17:29:58 <sfeole> cwayne: transfer the items into AU
Nov 16 17:32:26 <sfeole> theres only a handful of questions on AU that are tagged with nexus7, none of them appear to be duplicates of whats on the FAQ. for the most part, I have not finished going through all the questions yet
Nov 16 17:32:32 <Snark> the latest ARM-based chromebook looks like (1) it isn't out (2) it is only 16Go (3) it doesn't have an SD port
Nov 16 17:33:25 <cwayne> sfeole: make sure you're answering them at the same time
Nov 16 17:33:33 <tassadar__> Snark: yeah, use them clouds :)
Nov 16 17:33:39 <sfeole> cwayne: ack
Nov 16 17:33:49 <tassadar__> Snark: what about the price, is it known yet?
Nov 16 17:37:05 <Snark> tassadar__, eh, no cloud for me!
Nov 16 17:37:14 <Snark> I want my documents right here in my hand
Nov 16 17:37:39 <Snark> since there are quite a few places where I go and don't have much in the way of connection
Nov 16 17:38:23 <tassadar__> not for me either, besides, using cloud with 150mb FUP, which is pretty much standard in our country, is kinda unreal
Nov 16 17:42:51 <ssweeny> achiang, i've confirmed that the onboard snapshot builds for us and startup with ambiance theme is ~6s
Nov 16 17:43:08 <ssweeny> achiang, i'll upload momentarily
Nov 16 17:43:41 <cwayne> ssweeny: \o/ nice!
Nov 16 17:44:03 * infinity read that as "it takes 6s to start onboard", and hopes he misinterpreted.
Nov 16 17:44:19 <ssweeny> infinity, before this it was 30s
Nov 16 17:44:45 <infinity> Kay.  That doesn't make 6s good. ;)
Nov 16 17:45:02 <ssweeny> that's only first startup from cold boot
Nov 16 17:45:12 <ssweeny> subsequent appearances are < 1s
Nov 16 17:45:32 <ssweeny> still not perfect, but much improved
Nov 16 17:45:40 <ssweeny> hopefully when they release it'll be even faster
Nov 16 17:55:31 <achiang> infinity: it's slow  w/ a certain theme (Ambience). the theme we actually use by default (blackboard) starts in < 1s
Nov 16 17:57:20 <ogra_> iirc it took more than 6sec for me with ambience
Nov 16 17:57:35 <ogra_> and the bad thing is that it draws the window long before any content
Nov 16 17:59:16 <ogra_> Snark, i ordered my chrtomebook from amazon.uk two weeks ago ... no issues with shipping to germany (you have to live with the strange UK kbd indeed)
Nov 16 17:59:42 <ogra_> Snark, my chromebook has an SDHC reader, USB 2.0 and 3.0 ports
Nov 16 17:59:59 <ogra_> and indeed dual core A-15 and 2G of ram
Nov 16 18:01:05 <ogra_> so adding storage is really no prob
Nov 16 18:01:25 <ogra_> and with usb 3.0 you can even have it at close to SATA speed
Nov 16 18:01:44 <ogra_> infinity, we should kick out the pandas and just buy 10 chromebooks
Nov 16 18:01:58 <ogra_> (and 10 USB 3.0 disks)
Nov 16 18:02:14 <ogra_> they even come with builtin UPS !
Nov 16 18:05:21 <infinity> ogra_: Heh.  Please don't suggest it where anyone can take you seriously. :P
Nov 16 18:05:48 <ogra_> heh
Nov 16 18:09:49 <Snark> ogra_, well, I'd rather have an azerty keyboard
Nov 16 18:10:10 <ogra_> crazy french
Nov 16 18:10:12 <ogra_> :)
Nov 16 18:10:37 <Snark> well, french does have quite a few more accents than german, so having them handy is quite a must
Nov 16 18:11:29 <Snark> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/sage-devel/bdWVm4Pt0vc
Nov 16 18:11:45 <Snark> ^^^ apparently it's possible to fry an asus transformer...
Nov 16 18:12:32 <Snark> I'm pretty annoyed by the concept of a computer getting dead because it has too much work... since I'm quite used to giving too much work to my computers
Nov 16 18:17:54 <mfisch> xnox: ping
Nov 16 18:19:23 <xnox> mfisch: hola =)
Nov 16 18:19:46 <mfisch> xnox: achiang says you've updated smem in raring?  did you include smemcap?
Nov 16 18:20:02 <xnox> mfisch: hmm?
Nov 16 18:20:30 <xnox> mfisch: smem? don't think so.... id di upload android-tools-fsutils with many utilities in it.
Nov 16 18:20:58 <mfisch> xnox: okay, nevermind then
Nov 16 18:22:23 <achiang> xnox: i thought you packaged a new version of smem?
Nov 16 18:22:27 <achiang> xnox: or was that hrw?
Nov 16 18:22:38 <achiang> oopsie, janimo
Nov 16 18:22:39 <achiang> :)
Nov 16 18:22:39 <xnox> mfisch: but to answer your question: package smem has: smem & smemcap
Nov 16 18:22:59 <xnox> no worries =)
Nov 16 18:25:25 <mfisch> great
Nov 16 18:25:30 <mfisch> thanks
Nov 16 18:43:04 <tassadar__> ogra_: Is there some reason why there is "/dev/mmcblk0p9" hardcoded in nexus' tarball-installer, instead of using kernel "root" parameter?
Nov 16 18:44:11 <janimo> mfisch, yes smemcap is there
Nov 16 18:44:33 <janimo> that was the main reason for the new upload
Nov 16 19:01:37 <achiang> woo hoo, who can test this today? https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/nux/nux.depth-texture-detection-support/+merge/134729
Nov 16 20:08:16 <diwic> if I have this in debian/rules "ifeq ($(DEB_HOST_ARCH), armel)" i should remove the entire section, because armel is dropped. Correct?
Nov 16 20:11:58 <infinity> diwic: If it's an Ubuntu-only package, sure.  If you ever intend to also have it in Debian, you might want to keep it.
Nov 16 20:12:24 <diwic> infinity, ack
Nov 16 20:18:15 <Snark> ogra_, http://ograblog.wordpress.com/ <- you didn't blog since long... what about that recent chromebook and ubuntu?
Nov 16 20:51:34 <tassadar__> yaaay, nabootovano z flashky, tak po hodine
Nov 16 20:52:45 <tassadar__> and this is the wrong channel
Nov 16 20:52:48 <tassadar__> sorry
Nov 16 20:58:49 * Snark was trying to parse that ;-)
Nov 16 21:05:34 <infinity> Snark: Something about booting from a flash drive.
Nov 16 21:05:40 <infinity> My Czech is weak.
Nov 16 21:06:39 <tassadar__> I've just tried booting ubuntu on N7 from flash drive, if you really want to know :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Nov 17 03:00:00 2012