**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 12 02:59:58 2012
Dec 12 05:40:15 <sbaugh> Is Ubuntu on the Nexus 7 at a point where it's usable without an external keyboard/mouse?
Dec 12 05:43:39 <achiang> define "usable" ? :)
Dec 12 05:49:22 <sbaugh> achiang: Good point :) If I just wanted to do some reading and surf the web and do some tinkering, would I be able to spend a good couple hours without critical bugs?
Dec 12 05:50:00 <achiang> sbaugh: you'll probably still hit the "button1 stuck" bug, which is frustrating
Dec 12 05:50:38 <achiang> but anecdotally, if you don't exercise the unity elements too quickly (like opening/closing the dash too quickly or opening the indicators) you'll be ok for a while
Dec 12 05:50:46 <sbaugh> achiang:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7/+bug/1068994 is this it?
Dec 12 05:50:48 <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1068994 in ubuntu-nexus7 "button1 gets stuck after a while" [Critical,Confirmed]
Dec 12 05:51:17 <achiang> sbaugh: yeah, basically it stops responding to touch input :-/
Dec 12 05:51:24 <achiang> it's deep in the guts of X so hard to figure out
Dec 12 05:53:10 <sbaugh> achiang: Is that the only major bug I might run into?
Dec 12 05:53:48 <achiang> well, there are lots of others, but i don't think they are show stoppers, as bad as button1 stuck
Dec 12 05:54:25 <sbaugh> Then, it is time to flash!
Dec 12 05:55:31 <achiang> good luck. :)
Dec 12 06:23:41 <sbaugh> Hey, heh, I tried flashing but I'm getting a password propmt which rejects my password even though I'm sure I'm entering it right
Dec 12 06:23:57 <sbaugh> For permission to run ubuntu-nexus-installer
Dec 12 06:28:43 <achiang> should be your typical sudo password
Dec 12 06:28:47 <achiang> do you have sudo perms?
Dec 12 06:31:40 <sbaugh> Yes
Dec 12 06:32:03 <sbaugh> even changing user to root and running it, it still fails
Dec 12 06:35:04 <sbaugh> earth : Dec 12 01:11:30 : root : 3 incorrect password attempts ; TTY=pts/3 ; PWD=/home/spencer/Downloads/UbuntuNexus7 ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/usr/bin/[ 1 ]
Dec 12 06:35:18 <sbaugh> Is the mail sent to root to notify of the attempt
Dec 12 06:37:15 <achiang> interesting, this is not my area of expertise
Dec 12 06:37:20 <Ethernin> sbaugh, dude use fastboot
Dec 12 06:37:25 <achiang> vanhoof will wake up in a few hours. :)
Dec 12 06:38:01 <Ethernin> sbaugh, fastboot is way better and you can actually see what's going on
Dec 12 06:38:09 <Ethernin> just download the latest raring image off the wiki
Dec 12 06:38:10 <sbaugh> Ethernin: Do you mean do it manually? Fastboot seems to detect my device but it isn't letting me do anything.. mhm
Dec 12 06:38:17 <Ethernin> it should
Dec 12 06:38:20 <Ethernin> u r root?
Dec 12 06:38:25 <sbaugh> by anything, I mean restart
Dec 12 06:38:32 <sbaugh> ah
Dec 12 06:38:33 <sbaugh> no
Dec 12 06:38:38 <sbaugh> i wasn't root when i executed that command
Dec 12 06:38:39 <Ethernin> ok 1 - be root
Dec 12 06:38:50 <Ethernin> 2 - is your nexus in fastboot mode?>
Dec 12 06:38:50 <Ethernin> ?
Dec 12 06:38:53 <sbaugh> okay, oyes
Dec 12 06:38:58 <Ethernin> k
Dec 12 06:39:04 <Ethernin> you should be able to do -
Dec 12 06:39:13 <Ethernin> fastboot erase boot
Dec 12 06:39:17 <Ethernin> fastboot erase userdata
Dec 12 06:39:30 <Ethernin> fastboot flash boot raring*.bootimg
Dec 12 06:39:41 <Ethernin> fastboot flash userdata raring*.img
Dec 12 06:39:46 <Ethernin> fastboot reboot
Dec 12 06:40:27 <sbaugh> oh, haha
Dec 12 06:40:30 <sbaugh> how odd
Dec 12 06:40:34 <sbaugh> i did fastboot reboot
Dec 12 06:40:40 <sbaugh> it seems it's already been flashed
Dec 12 06:40:48 <Ethernin> is your bootloader unlocked?
Dec 12 06:40:51 <sbaugh> i must have gotten through the first time and not noticed
Dec 12 06:43:16 <sbaugh> great, it's booting
Dec 12 06:44:29 <Ethernin> saweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
Dec 12 06:44:31 <Ethernin> ;-)
Dec 12 06:44:38 <Ethernin> which nexus do u have?
Dec 12 06:44:41 <Ethernin> 16 or 32?
Dec 12 06:44:43 <Ethernin> gb?
Dec 12 06:44:58 <sbaugh> 16
Dec 12 06:45:06 <Ethernin> word yeah i have one of those
Dec 12 06:49:00 <sbaugh> hanging for quite a while on wireless
Dec 12 06:49:10 <sbaugh> in the first-start system config
Dec 12 06:49:24 <sbaugh> would it hurt to just power cycle?
Dec 12 06:55:43 <Ethernin> omg
Dec 12 06:55:45 <Ethernin> yeah
Dec 12 06:55:52 <Ethernin> i had to deal with that fucking thing like 10 times
Dec 12 06:55:58 <Ethernin> did u install the latest raring image?
Dec 12 06:56:08 <sbaugh> yes
Dec 12 06:56:11 <sbaugh> and now i'm
Dec 12 06:56:13 <Ethernin> the initial menu is SUPER buggy when it comes to connecting to the wifi
Dec 12 06:56:19 <Ethernin> i usually skip it and connect after
Dec 12 06:56:28 <sbaugh> stuck at the account setup
Dec 12 06:56:44 <sbaugh> can't seem to enter any text
Dec 12 06:56:46 <Ethernin> yeah, u may want to plugin a keybaord
Dec 12 06:56:50 <Ethernin> yeah keep tapping
Dec 12 06:56:55 <Ethernin> another bug for sure
Dec 12 06:56:57 <sbaugh> onboard is up
Dec 12 06:56:59 <Ethernin> just keep tapping
Dec 12 06:57:00 <sbaugh> okay
Dec 12 06:57:03 <Ethernin> the input fields
Dec 12 06:57:07 <sbaugh> ok
Dec 12 06:57:10 <Ethernin> super buggy but u should be able to
Dec 12 06:57:16 <Ethernin> i had the same thing happen like 10 times
Dec 12 06:57:17 <sbaugh> is there a way at this point to connect remotely
Dec 12 06:57:19 <sbaugh> and do this?
Dec 12 06:57:37 <Ethernin> yeah attach a external usb keyboard via OTG cable
Dec 12 06:57:42 <Ethernin> and tap tap tap away
Dec 12 06:57:59 <sbaugh> no, i mean, ssh or vnc or something
Dec 12 06:58:05 <Ethernin> they really need to fix the initial menu, and stop a bunch of services like cups
Dec 12 06:58:09 <Ethernin> unity is super slow too
Dec 12 06:58:16 <Ethernin> i find xfce and lxde to be the best
Dec 12 06:58:22 <Ethernin> gnome classic is pretty good too
Dec 12 06:58:28 <Ethernin> yeah but u have to install them first
Dec 12 06:58:29 <sbaugh> i was planning on lxde
Dec 12 06:58:33 <sbaugh> oh
Dec 12 06:58:35 <sbaugh> drat
Dec 12 06:58:36 <Ethernin> yeah lxde is very nice
Dec 12 06:58:37 <sbaugh> you're right
Dec 12 06:58:45 <Ethernin> ;-)
Dec 12 06:58:46 <sbaugh> ubuntu doesn't ship with an ssh server, right?
Dec 12 06:58:55 <Ethernin> apt-get install openssh-server
Dec 12 06:58:58 <Ethernin> once yer in
Dec 12 06:59:10 <Ethernin> i knwo the initial menu is really buggy....
Dec 12 06:59:49 <sbaugh> isn't there some serial connection thing
Dec 12 07:02:42 <sbaugh> yes, I see on here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/UsingTheDevice
Dec 12 07:03:31 <sbaugh> oh god
Dec 12 07:03:44 <sbaugh> what is the default accout name and password? ubuntu/ubuntu doesn't seem to work?
Dec 12 07:05:11 <infinity> sbaugh: There is no default account.
Dec 12 07:05:37 <infinity> sbaugh: First boot after flashing it should give you an installerish deal that prompts to create a user.
Dec 12 07:06:00 <sbaugh> infinity: I'm having trouble with that so I thought i'd bypass it with the serial connection.
Dec 12 07:06:15 <infinity> Well, see above.  There's no default user.
Dec 12 07:07:16 <Ethernin> infinity, the initial menu config after install is SUPER buggy, often u have to tap many times to actually input text into the user/pass fields, and sometimes it doesnt even work
Dec 12 07:07:21 <sbaugh> There's no way I can get on the device without going through this setup? :(
Dec 12 07:07:26 <Ethernin> infinity, just an FYI if u didn't already know
Dec 12 07:07:35 <sbaugh> Because like Ethernin said it's barely functional
Dec 12 07:08:05 <infinity> xnox: You know anything about the current uniquity-versus-input issues?
Dec 12 07:08:58 <sbaugh> Ethernin: I should be tapping the field itself, correct? And when will I know I am able to input text?
Dec 12 07:09:25 <Ethernin> sbaugh, yeah that's what worked for me
Dec 12 07:09:26 <sbaugh> (as opposed to the keyboard)
Dec 12 07:09:39 <Ethernin> yeah u will have to show onboard too if it isn't
Dec 12 07:10:07 <infinity> sbaugh: If you can boot with an arbitrary commandline, you could always boot with init=/bin/sh and set stuff up via serial.  I'm on my way to bed, though, so can't be particularly helpful on that score.
Dec 12 07:10:24 <infinity> (Obviously, us fixing whatever's currently plaguing the installer is the better option here)
Dec 12 07:11:12 <Ethernin> infinity, thank you!
Dec 12 07:12:36 <sbaugh> infinity, I would ask how I would go about booting in such a way, but Ethernin, maybe you can explain?
Dec 12 07:13:07 <Ethernin> if it really doesn't work, try rebooting, if that doesn't work u can always reflash
Dec 12 07:13:18 <Ethernin> but really u should get an OTG usb cable
Dec 12 07:13:24 <Ethernin> so u can plug in a usb keyboard ect
Dec 12 07:13:36 <Ethernin> that's always my backup at this point ;-)
Dec 12 07:13:54 <sbaugh> yes, I should, but I don't have one right at the moment :)
Dec 12 07:14:36 <sbaugh> Would I need to reflash to change init or etc.
Dec 12 07:15:35 <Ethernin> honestly I would try reflashing - it's the simplest quickest option
Dec 12 07:16:30 <sbaugh> Okay, so how would I flash differently this time around?
Dec 12 07:17:53 <Ethernin> no
Dec 12 07:17:54 <Ethernin> same
Dec 12 07:18:03 <Ethernin> just follow the wiki, erase, and flash
Dec 12 07:18:05 <Ethernin> and reboot
Dec 12 07:18:11 <Ethernin> before that u could try rebooting the device
Dec 12 07:18:15 <Ethernin> by holding the power button
Dec 12 07:18:24 <Ethernin> and maybe it will prompt u with the menu again
Dec 12 07:18:28 <Ethernin> try that before reflashing
Dec 12 07:19:04 <sbaugh> also I seem to have accidentally rotated the screen, is the hotkey super-something?
Dec 12 07:19:16 <Ethernin> um....not sure about that one!
Dec 12 07:25:33 <sbaugh> I'm not sure I just want to reflash and hope. Isn't there anything more direct I could do?
Dec 12 07:26:07 <kulve> sbaugh: http://ruedigergad.com/2012/12/09/nexus-7-easily-flashaccess-entire-userdata-partition/
Dec 12 07:26:38 <kulve> you can mount the partition over usb to your PC and add root passwd there. I think then you can log in as root
Dec 12 07:36:32 <sbaugh> kulve: Do you know how I would do this more specifically? I'm having trouble telnetting in (I'm also unsure how I would mount the user partition)
Dec 12 07:38:29 <kulve> what parts have you done now? Did you already boot with the moslo images?
Dec 12 07:38:37 <sbaugh> Yes
Dec 12 07:38:52 <sbaugh> But that's as far as I've gotten
Dec 12 07:39:19 <gurgalof> it should come up as a usb massstorage device...
Dec 12 07:39:23 <kulve> now you should already see the big partition in your Linux box. "dmesg" should tell you the /dev/sdX device for it?
Dec 12 07:42:10 <sbaugh> ah, okay, it's appeared
Dec 12 07:43:51 <kulve> sbaugh: use "mkpasswd" to create a password hash for you and add it to etc/shadow file on the mounted file system
Dec 12 07:44:49 <kulve> to my understanding that's enough to enable the root user
Dec 12 07:45:52 <sbaugh> shadow should currently be blank?
Dec 12 07:46:10 <sbaugh> ah
Dec 12 07:46:11 <sbaugh> whoops
Dec 12 07:46:16 <sbaugh> nevermind, ignore me
Dec 12 07:47:28 <sbaugh> so I should just put the hash after root? Or make a new line for a new user?
Dec 12 07:48:59 <kulve> change it for root
Dec 12 07:49:31 <kulve> adding a new user would need editing passwd and group files as well as adding a home directory. So it's easier to enable root user :)
Dec 12 07:50:12 <kulve> if you get that working, you can then adduser in a live system (although doing that graphically might be better idea in ubuntu)
Dec 12 07:50:53 <sbaugh> kulve, and i'm replacing the * in root:*:151414:etc.?
Dec 12 07:52:15 <kulve> yes
Dec 12 07:52:44 <kulve> I hope I remember this correctly as I haven't done that many times..
Dec 12 07:53:07 <kulve> sbaugh: and do make sure you edit the device's file system and not your real one ;)
Dec 12 07:53:21 <sbaugh> good advice :)
Dec 12 07:54:47 <kulve> I often cd to the mount point and then vi /etc/foobar instead of vi etc/foobar ..
Dec 12 07:55:32 <dholbach> good morning
Dec 12 07:57:43 <sbaugh> kulve: as before it is immediately saying "Login incorrect" if I enter root as my login (not letting me get to password)
Dec 12 07:58:29 <sbaugh> Do I also need to enable logging in as root, perhaps?
Dec 12 07:58:54 <kulve> How are you logging in as I assume you don't have wifi up?
Dec 12 07:59:16 <sbaugh> The serial connection mentioned here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/UsingTheDevice
Dec 12 08:00:09 <kulve> I think you need to make sure ttyACM0 is in /etc/securetty to allow root login through ttyACM0
Dec 12 08:00:23 <sbaugh> well then
Dec 12 08:00:27 <kulve> it might not be there by default
Dec 12 08:08:06 <sbaugh> great!
Dec 12 08:08:11 <sbaugh> awesome, thanks kulve
Dec 12 08:08:14 <kulve> np :)
Dec 12 08:08:34 <kulve> that moslo stuff is quite neat, if you want copy something big over there
Dec 12 08:09:04 <sbaugh> nothing I really need
Dec 12 08:09:58 <sbaugh> will the installation wizard still come up if there's a user set up?
Dec 12 08:10:07 <kulve> no idea
Dec 12 08:35:13 <cortexA9> hello
Dec 12 08:37:41 <sbaugh> excellentttttttttt
Dec 12 09:05:27 <cortexA9> testing 12.10 to 13.04 on nexus 7 :)
Dec 12 09:12:47 <victorp> ogra_, ping
Dec 12 09:19:40 <sbaugh> Okay, the issues with the first-run configuration wizard seem to be issues with Unity; I managed to run it under LXDE and it worked fine.
Dec 12 09:19:51 <sbaugh> (Or possibly just the window managers)
Dec 12 09:22:26 <xnox> infinity: on nexus7 with ubiquity on compiz, ogra reported onboard "fighting" for the screen estate with ubiquity somehow. But I am yet to look into that.
Dec 12 09:29:48 <cortexA9> mmmm
Dec 12 09:30:10 <cortexA9> preparing to replace bluez..
Dec 12 09:30:50 <cortexA9> very strange
Dec 12 09:30:58 <cortexA9> it takes few mins
Dec 12 09:31:10 <cortexA9> i try to upgrade to 13.04
Dec 12 09:31:13 <cortexA9> from 12.10
Dec 12 09:55:19 <cortexA9> i have problem with bluez
Dec 12 09:55:37 <cortexA9> can i remove it ?
Dec 12 09:56:12 <smartboyhw> cortexA9, don't they recommend that you NOT upgrade but instead to refresh the image?
Dec 12 09:56:38 <smartboyhw> cortexA9, anyway you can install the 13.04 image using the instructions here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation
Dec 12 09:56:48 <cortexA9> smartboyhw: i tried
Dec 12 09:57:08 <cortexA9> but with multirom doesn't work
Dec 12 09:57:16 <cortexA9> and now i try to upgrade
Dec 12 10:03:13 <cortexA9> lol
Dec 12 10:03:16 <cortexA9> i remove it
Dec 12 10:03:19 <cortexA9> and now seems work
Dec 12 10:03:26 <cortexA9> :)
Dec 12 10:03:26 <smartboyhw> cortexA9, :D
Dec 12 10:04:29 <cortexA9> i don't care bluetooth :P
Dec 12 10:32:12 <cortexA9> no.. doesn't work :P
Dec 12 10:35:53 <smartboyhw> :P
Dec 12 10:36:11 <cortexA9> wait
Dec 12 10:36:21 <cortexA9> try another method
Dec 12 10:38:05 <cortexA9> lol
Dec 12 10:38:18 <cortexA9> now i don't have wifi :(
Dec 12 11:25:00 <cortexA9> there is a problem with wifi on nexus 7 ?
Dec 12 11:25:45 <cortexA9> because i can't see that after upgrading the packages.
Dec 12 11:38:02 <Laney> Can somebody try running rhythmbox with gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly on their nexus 7 please?
Dec 12 11:38:07 <Laney> See if it crashes like mine does ...
Dec 12 11:38:35 <Laney> with ... *installed*, that is
Dec 12 11:41:16 <Laney> http://paste.debian.net/215757/
Dec 12 11:52:11 <kulve> looks like there's some armv4 assembly that's not supported on the nexus 7's armv7 anymore?
Dec 12 11:53:03 <kulve> well, the function is still _armv7_tick..
Dec 12 11:53:38 <suihkulokki> kulve: the code might be catching sigill to figure out what instructions are supported
Dec 12 11:55:24 <Laney> yeah might be likely; if I continue I get to the real segfault
Dec 12 11:56:26 <suihkulokki> ..and that is indeed what is happening, looking at armcap.c
Dec 12 11:56:41 <Laney> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
Dec 12 11:56:41 <Laney> [Switching to Thread 0x4d5e9280 (LWP 3168)]
Dec 12 11:56:41 <Laney> 0x4ab93760 in mad_layer_III () from /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libmad.so.0
Dec 12 11:57:10 <suihkulokki> kulve: catching SIGILL is btw one common way detect (un)supported instructions
Dec 12 11:57:19 <kulve> ok
Dec 12 11:57:36 <Laney> gdb > handle sigill pass nostop
Dec 12 11:57:51 <suihkulokki> Laney: aye
Dec 12 12:01:15 <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libmad/+bug/989846
Dec 12 12:01:16 <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 989846 in libmad (Ubuntu) "libmad causes mpd to seg fault on update" [Undecided,Confirmed]
Dec 12 12:13:21 <dholbach> cortexA9, it works for me
Dec 12 12:19:56 <dholbach> Laney, yes, it crashes for me too
Dec 12 12:20:27 <dholbach> still surprised I don't get anything in /var/crash
Dec 12 12:20:31 <Laney> not surprised :-)
Dec 12 12:20:37 <Laney> I don't get any apport goodness either
Dec 12 12:20:51 * Laney will have a poke at it now - building libmad debug package atm
Dec 12 12:20:58 <Laney> no ddeb for some reason
Dec 12 12:21:52 <dholbach> janimo, do you know if apport should run on the nexus7?
Dec 12 12:22:00 <dholbach> (like catching crashes)
Dec 12 12:25:01 <cortexA9> dholbach: on 13.04 ?
Dec 12 12:25:10 <dholbach> cortexA9, yes
Dec 12 12:25:20 <cortexA9> oh nice
Dec 12 12:25:31 <cortexA9> how you do that ?
Dec 12 12:25:32 <dholbach> cortexA9, I tried both an upgrade from 12.10 and a fresh installation - wifi worked for me in both cases
Dec 12 12:25:57 <cortexA9> you have multirom too ?
Dec 12 12:26:08 <dholbach> cortexA9, what does "dpkg -l | grep linux-firmware" give you?
Dec 12 12:26:22 <dholbach> I'm afraid I don't know what multirom means
Dec 12 12:26:41 <cortexA9> it's a system for nexus 7
Dec 12 12:26:45 <cortexA9> for dual boot
Dec 12 12:26:47 <cortexA9> ubuntu and roms
Dec 12 12:27:41 <dholbach> cortexA9, ah, no - no dualboot
Dec 12 12:29:32 <cortexA9> dholbach: linux-firmware 1.98
Dec 12 12:29:47 <cortexA9> firmware for linux kernel drivers
Dec 12 12:30:02 <dholbach> you might be missing this one
Dec 12 12:30:03 <dholbach> linux-firmware-nexus7                     0.2
Dec 12 12:30:32 <dholbach> best to download it here https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-firmware-nexus7/0.2/+build/3986720/+files/linux-firmware-nexus7_0.2_all.deb and copy it over with a usb-stick or something
Dec 12 12:31:01 <dholbach> it's a problem which has been fixed since a couple of days already - it was a missing recommends of another package
Dec 12 12:31:22 <cortexA9> how can i copy it ?
Dec 12 12:31:23 <cortexA9> mmm
Dec 12 12:31:43 <cortexA9> i can't with a stick..
Dec 12 12:31:55 <cortexA9> i have no connection
Dec 12 12:33:53 <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/UsingTheDevice#Attaching_a_USB_Device_to_the_Nexus_7
Dec 12 12:35:31 <diwic> dholbach, I believe apport is not yet working on ARM but that pitti is working on it
Dec 12 12:35:44 <dholbach> hm ok
Dec 12 12:37:34 <cortexA9> mmm
Dec 12 12:45:11 <cortexA9> with usb cable not working i think right ?
Dec 12 12:45:36 <dholbach> hm?
Dec 12 12:45:52 <cortexA9> yes i mean
Dec 12 12:46:03 <cortexA9> with the cable
Dec 12 12:46:21 <cortexA9> attach on pc
Dec 12 12:46:55 <dholbach> put the .deb file on the usb stick on your PC and then connect it to the usb cable to the nexus7
Dec 12 12:47:38 <cortexA9> i can't see the nexus 7
Dec 12 12:50:00 <dholbach> I used a usb mass storage device (usb stick, memory stick), which I first connected to my laptop and then to the nexus7
Dec 12 12:51:07 <cortexA9> oh nice
Dec 12 12:51:18 <cortexA9> but you have a special cable ?
Dec 12 12:51:45 <dholbach> yes - it's mentioned in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/UsingTheDevice#Attaching_a_USB_Device_to_the_Nexus_7
Dec 12 12:54:13 <cortexA9> what about serial debug shell ?
Dec 12 12:54:55 <dholbach> I have no experience with it
Dec 12 12:56:27 <janimo> dholbach, apport should run on the nexus. I know it was disabled by default on the 12.10 images though
Dec 12 12:56:32 <janimo> not sure about raring
Dec 12 12:56:55 <dholbach> janimo, /etc/default/apport looks like it's enabled
Dec 12 12:57:14 <dholbach> and pitti told me to look this up:
Dec 12 12:57:14 <dholbach> daniel@nexus7:~$ cat /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern
Dec 12 12:57:14 <dholbach> |/usr/share/apport/apport %p %s %c
Dec 12 12:57:14 <dholbach> daniel@nexus7:~$
Dec 12 12:57:15 <janimo> dholbach, are things crashing and apport not running?
Dec 12 12:57:22 <dholbach> which supposedly indicates that it's up and running
Dec 12 12:57:40 <janimo> I don't know much about this side, never saw the apport dialog on nexus7 either now that i think about it
Dec 12 12:57:53 <dholbach> janimo, pitti is reflashing his nexus and looking into it
Dec 12 12:57:54 <janimo> although I saw recently some apport/arm related changes from pitti
Dec 12 12:58:41 <dholbach> yes, apport seems to be able to retrace crashes from foreign architectures, so LP would know what to do with crashes
Dec 12 12:58:42 <janimo> but I think it was disabled very early in the nexus project as it probably came up too often
Dec 12 12:58:44 <dholbach> but errors.u.c needs an update still
Dec 12 13:00:11 <dholbach> I can pass on any more information I get
Dec 12 14:10:46 <dholbach> janimo,
Dec 12 14:10:46 <dholbach> <jibel> looks like core dump is disabled on the nexus7
Dec 12 14:10:46 <dholbach>  I've set core_pattern to /tmp/core.%e.%p.%h.%t
Dec 12 14:10:49 <dholbach>  then as a normal user ulimit -c unlimited
Dec 12 14:10:49 <dholbach>  and  sh -c 'kill -SEGV $$'
Dec 12 14:10:49 <dholbach>  that should produce a file /tmp/core.sh.*
Dec 12 14:10:53 <dholbach>  and there is nothing, while it works on a my desktop
Dec 12 14:11:08 <dholbach> not sure though what they're going to do about it
Dec 12 14:15:30 <janimo> dholbach, I don't see anything in the ubuntu-defaults-nexus7 package that would disable core
Dec 12 14:15:40 <janimo> I had no idea we do that either
Dec 12 14:15:48 <janimo> just about apport that was off in 12.10
Dec 12 14:24:29 <erupter> hi there
Dec 12 14:28:51 <erupter> i'm having some weird problems with ubuntu on a pandaboard
Dec 12 14:29:09 <erupter> anybody wanting to help?
Dec 12 14:33:08 <erupter> is this the right channel to seek help installing ubuntu-desktop on a pandaboard? it's the 10th time I have to start again after the board fails to boot
Dec 12 14:33:46 <highvoltage> erupter: if you'd like help, it's better to be specific. you have to provide details on what you've done and what actually went wrong.
Dec 12 14:54:54 <erupter> simple
Dec 12 14:55:33 <erupter> follow these steps
Dec 12 14:55:34 <erupter> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/pandaboard/7DLabw7amBg
Dec 12 14:56:09 <erupter> whenever the board finish the ubuntu-omap-extras installation and I reboot, it fails to boot again
Dec 12 14:56:11 <erupter> no error message
Dec 12 14:56:30 <erupter> it starts booting, getting up to "uncompressing linux kernel, booting"
Dec 12 14:56:36 <erupter> and then restarts and bootloops
Dec 12 14:57:09 <erupter> either this, or the unity environment fails to load (no launcher) after the dist-upgrade
Dec 12 14:58:03 <erupter> the only way that works is the clean 12.04 preinstalled image
Dec 12 14:58:18 <erupter> (without hardware acceleration it's quite slow)
Dec 12 16:33:46 <Laney> apparently core dumps are disabled in the kernel
Dec 12 16:34:45 <dholbach> Laney, do you know if it's easily fixable?
Dec 12 16:35:59 <Laney> i don't know what the limitations are
Dec 12 16:36:08 <Laney> let's rock and roll over to #ubuntu-kernel
Dec 12 17:12:40 <Laney> well, I found out how to enable it in the kernel I think
Dec 12 17:12:45 <Laney> let me try it and see what happens
Dec 12 17:12:48 <Laney> http://www.rt-embedded.com/blog/archives/enabling-core-dumps-in-embedded-systems/
Dec 12 17:21:23 <achiang> Laney: that's a kernel thing? i thought it was userspace (ulimit) ?
Dec 12 17:25:02 <Laney> achiang: If I'm getting this correctly it needs to be enabled in the kernel in the first place
Dec 12 17:25:17 <Laney> the nexus 7 kernels indeed don't have it compared to the stock ones which do
Dec 12 17:25:30 <achiang> Laney: ah, ok. nice find. that should probably be a bug
Dec 12 17:25:44 <Laney> i'm checking it out now
Dec 12 17:25:50 <Laney> then we can do a fix however kernel fixes get done
Dec 12 18:00:10 <sbaugh> my battery seems to be taking forever to charge
Dec 12 18:01:41 <kulve> charging with what?
Dec 12 18:02:32 <sbaugh> well, I'm not charging with the bundled nexus 7 charger and cord, but with android it still charged
Dec 12 18:03:26 <sbaugh> and, I am assuming it isn't charging from the little battery charge screen when it's off
Dec 12 18:03:40 <sbaugh> But when I'm in ubuntu I get conflicting messages about whether it's charged
Dec 12 18:11:07 <Laney> achiang: OK that appears to work
Dec 12 18:11:24 <Laney> I'm EODing now so if you want to then CONFIG_ELF_CORE=y needs to be set in the kernel
Dec 12 18:11:29 <Laney> otherwise I'll follow it up first thing tomorrow
Dec 12 18:11:59 <Laney> got a whoopsie popup and everything
Dec 12 18:30:28 <tassadar_> heh, /proc/last_kmsg survises device shutdown, and kexec-hardboot data too
Dec 12 18:30:31 <tassadar_> well, sort of
Dec 12 19:05:09 <[mbm]> tassadar_: guess nobody is clearing the ram
Dec 12 19:05:45 <[mbm]> I know some of that was inte tional from the ramconsole patches
Dec 12 19:06:25 <sbaugh> there was one really good approach to mouse input I saw in an Android VNC client, it treated the touch screen as a touchpad and left and right as regions, would it be "Write a driver" difficult or "Install a driver" difficult to do this with Ubuntu on the N7?
Dec 12 19:07:10 <[mbm]> sbaugh: I've been saying the exact same thing
Dec 12 19:07:16 <AndreasWatch> Hi, I'm want to add ubuntu-support to an other tegra3 tablet (lenova A2109) and want to know what are the differences between the N7 android- and linux kernel
Dec 12 19:07:47 <[mbm]> sbaugh: scummvm is another go0d example of it
Dec 12 19:09:08 <sbaugh> [mbm]: What does scummvm do with it?
Dec 12 19:09:58 <sbaugh> [mbm]: And, if you've been saying the same thing, do you have anything that might enable such a feature?
Dec 12 19:10:34 <[mbm]> sbaugh: scummvm on android uses a relative movement, treating the surface as a laptop touchpad
Dec 12 19:10:46 <sbaugh> oh, ok
Dec 12 19:10:52 <[mbm]> sbaugh: doubt anyone has actually had time to lok into it; I certainly haven't
Dec 12 19:39:17 <tassadar_> [mbm]: yeah, I always thought that it will loose data soon after power-down, and it was shut down for like 5-10s
Dec 12 19:39:55 <tassadar_> there was even enough data to cause kexec-hardboot patch to try run kernel from RAM, but it failed
Dec 12 19:42:01 <[mbm]> tassadar_: have you ever seen what happens when the video driver crashes and the lcd goes cloudy and eventually turns white?
Dec 12 19:42:40 <[mbm]> what's really happening is a slow discharge; very similar to what happens with ram
Dec 12 19:43:12 <[mbm]> and actually the colder the chips are the slower the discharge
Dec 12 19:44:16 <[mbm]> there was a research paper written up at one point talking about how you could take a laptop, power it down, use an upsideown can of duster to freeze the ram chips and then put them in another machine and search the ram for encryption keys
Dec 12 19:44:36 <tassadar_> yeah, I think I saw something like that
Dec 12 19:45:55 <tassadar_> well, I suppose I'll need a bit more knowledge about how the RAM chips
Dec 12 19:45:57 <tassadar_> work
Dec 12 19:46:13 <[mbm]> also I belive there's an open bug on the nexus7 ubuntu port talkign about how the framebufer isn't erased and will show part of the old desktop when x starts
Dec 12 19:46:34 <tassadar_> yeah, same thing happens when you reboot to android from recovery
Dec 12 19:46:56 <tassadar_> and because android does not use framebuffer anymore, last frame from the recovery just stays there
Dec 12 19:47:44 <[mbm]> well, the basic concept of ram is simple, it's a capacitor that holds a value but will slowly discharge, so there's a refresh where the os will reach the current value and then write out the same value
Dec 12 19:47:55 <[mbm]> s/reach/read/
Dec 12 19:49:19 <tassadar_> hmmm, there is something I'd like to know - how does the NAND chips do it, that they will keep the data even without power?
Dec 12 19:58:46 <tassadar_> well, wiki says that it is very similiar to mosfet, but can keep it's state even without power from outside, other then that, it's way to complex)
Dec 12 19:59:40 <tassadar_> but I guess the proffesors at college will try to teach me how that all works in a few years, so for now it's okay)
Dec 12 20:02:41 <[mbm]> flash is a bit more cokplicated; uses nand or nor gates to build latches
Dec 12 20:03:18 <[mbm]> bank erase command will set everything to 0xff and then writes will set tue 0 bits
Dec 12 20:04:03 <tassadar_> hmm, that is why "empty" memory on ATmega controllers is "0xFF"
Dec 12 20:04:05 <[mbm]> the annoyance being that once a byte has a 0 it can't be changed back to a 1 without eraseing tje entire bank
Dec 12 20:04:50 <[mbm]> yep
Dec 12 20:05:53 <[mbm]> nand chips allow for higher capacity than nor chips but are harder to interface
Dec 12 20:06:11 <[mbm]> so often times bootup is done using nor chips
Dec 12 20:08:12 <[mbm]> flash is also a few orders of magnitude slower than ram
Dec 12 20:13:05 <[mbm]> should point out that on flash, a bank or page is often 256k or higher
Dec 12 20:13:15 <tassadar_> that is really lot Oo
Dec 12 20:13:33 <tassadar_> no wonder USB drives sux at small writes
Dec 12 20:13:49 <[mbm]> that's why SSDs have a TRIM command
Dec 12 20:15:19 <[mbm]> trim basically means ignore the old contents and just write the new value
Dec 12 20:16:55 <[mbm]> so if the pages are 256k and you only want to write 4k, without trim you'd be reading all 256k into ram, erasing and then writing 4k along with the remainder 0f the original 256k
Dec 12 20:18:11 <[mbm]> trim lets you short circuit the process and just 0verwite the full 256k with the new 4k data
Dec 12 20:19:02 <tassadar_> when is it called, like is it instead of "delete" command, or during the write operation..?
Dec 12 20:20:17 <[mbm]> it means the write command doesn't need to preserve the old data if a write doesn't end on a boundary
Dec 12 20:21:59 <[mbm]> early ssds didn't support trim, so the init9al write was fast, but as the drive filled it couldn't simply write the data, it had to do a read, modify, write
Dec 12 20:22:39 <[mbm]> so it slowed down over time because it didn't know the os didn't care about the old data
Dec 12 20:23:23 <tassadar_> just to be clear - one block == one file?
Dec 12 20:23:50 <[mbm]> not quite
Dec 12 20:24:37 <tassadar_> I mean, if you have lot of small files, eventually you would have to put more of them into one flash block, which means you have to read it in order not to lose the other file
Dec 12 20:25:20 <[mbm]> suppose you had a 16M flash chip, it's probably arranged into blocks of 64k or 128k
Dec 12 20:25:39 * tassadar_ has 16M flash chip
Dec 12 20:25:54 <[mbm]> as you get 9nto larger capacities the sizes go up
Dec 12 20:26:35 <[mbm]> under linux, the mtd driver is used when dealing with nand or nor
Dec 12 20:26:53 <[mbm]> and if you look at /proc/mtd you'll see an erasesize
Dec 12 20:27:16 <tassadar_> yeah, it's like that on my LG P500
Dec 12 20:27:44 <[mbm]> that's showing you how big the blocks/pages are
Dec 12 20:27:54 <tassadar_> it has 0x00020000, which is..
Dec 12 20:27:56 <tassadar_> g << 00020000
Dec 12 20:28:03 <tassadar_> oh, wait, wrong channel, there is no geordi here)
Dec 12 20:28:12 <tassadar_> 128k
Dec 12 20:29:17 <[mbm]> flash is rated in terms of how often you can erase and rewrite it before the silicon falls apart
Dec 12 20:29:41 <[mbm]> which is on the order of 100,000 - 1,000,000 cycles
Dec 12 20:30:54 <tassadar_> wiki says that when MLC chips are used (like in most android devices?), it is much less - around 1-10k
Dec 12 20:31:03 <tassadar_> which scares me a bit
Dec 12 20:31:14 <[mbm]> when you deal with flash chips hidden behind controllers like sd cards there is a certain amount of reserved space
Dec 12 20:31:32 <[mbm]> and bad pages get automatically remapped
Dec 12 20:32:19 <[mbm]> when dealing directly with the flash there are special filesystems like jffs2 and yaffs2 which try to distribute the wear
Dec 12 20:34:09 <[mbm]> if you were to try to use ext3 directly you'd probably have some files which almost never change and some files which are constantly changing
Dec 12 20:35:19 <[mbm]> which results in uneven wear, the areas with tue constant files would have only used a few cycles while the remainder of the filesystem was constantly using up cycles
Dec 12 20:36:21 <[mbm]> one of the stupidest things you can do is wget a file directly to a flash filesystem
Dec 12 20:37:02 <[mbm]> which will go slow because it has to constantly update the flash with the new file size and data
Dec 12 20:37:37 <[mbm]> works much better to download to ram and then once downloaded, write the whole thing to flash once
Dec 12 21:00:27 <tassadar_> [mbm]: okay, thanks for the explanation, I feel like It gave me more than the last month and a half in school :) I have to get some sleep now, gn
Dec 12 21:21:18 <Ethernin> Hey u guys, can I ask how many of you have ubuntu installed on a Nexus7?
Dec 12 21:23:05 <Ethernin> just curious...for those who are running ubuntu on a Nexus7 - what desktop environment has worked the best for you?
Dec 12 21:23:22 <Ethernin> I'm finding even tweaking unity it is practically unusable
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