**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 24 02:59:58 2015
Sep 24 08:07:25 <flexiondotorg> ogra_, Does the linux-raspi2 kernel also provide the bootloader?
Sep 24 08:07:35 <ogra_> nope
Sep 24 08:07:46 <flexiondotorg> OK, where does Snappy get that from then?
Sep 24 08:08:44 <ogra_> from the oem snap
Sep 24 08:08:53 <ogra_> (soon to be renamed to gadget snap)
Sep 24 08:09:29 <flexiondotorg> Right, so this is a snap tool that provides the required device specific "stuff"?
Sep 24 08:09:43 <ogra_> no, its a snap developer who does :)
Sep 24 08:09:59 <flexiondotorg> So, I know practically nothing about Snappy.
Sep 24 08:10:07 <ogra_> there is no tool beyond "snappy build" to finally assemble the snap from a tree of binaries
Sep 24 08:10:10 <flexiondotorg> I'm not doing Snappy for Ubuntu MATE (yet).
Sep 24 08:10:27 <flexiondotorg> I know how to put the boot loader etc in the right places and have debs for that.
Sep 24 08:10:31 <ogra_> yeah, you probably dont want to yet
Sep 24 08:10:40 <flexiondotorg> But I'm interested to understand the mechanis for this with snappy.
Sep 24 08:11:00 <ogra_> for snappy you need to try to think out of debs and closer to upstream
Sep 24 08:11:17 <flexiondotorg> ogra_, Yeah I've been told to not adopt snappy just yet.
Sep 24 08:11:21 <flexiondotorg> Before :-)
Sep 24 08:11:44 <flexiondotorg> ogra_, I understand the concept of snappy, just not how a snappy OS if created.
Sep 24 08:11:51 <flexiondotorg> but, I've got my answer.
Sep 24 08:11:53 <ogra_> a snap is just a collection of binaries and glue between them, how these binaries are produced is up to the person making the snap
Sep 24 08:12:27 <flexiondotorg> I can used the linux-raspi2 kernel (when available) and I'll have to provide the bootloader, firmware and GPU drivers myself.
Sep 24 08:12:35 <ogra_> right
Sep 24 08:12:43 <flexiondotorg> ogra_, So the snap binaries.
Sep 24 08:12:57 <flexiondotorg> This is a prebuilt OS for different architectures?
Sep 24 08:13:01 <ogra_> we might focus on getting the free graphics driver to work
Sep 24 08:13:07 <flexiondotorg> A generic rootfs, if you will?
Sep 24 08:13:11 <ogra_> so this might end up in the archive proper
Sep 24 08:13:22 <flexiondotorg> ogra_, OK cool.
Sep 24 08:13:45 <ogra_> the snappy OS is similar to the phone today ...
Sep 24 08:13:46 <flexiondotorg> ogra_, The is also the fbturbo driver that is 2D accelerated for Pi2.
Sep 24 08:14:00 <flexiondotorg> ogra_, Understood.
Sep 24 08:14:07 <ogra_> you have a generic rootfs and a device tarball that carries all device specific bits
Sep 24 08:14:30 <flexiondotorg> And can I create my own "device tarball"?
Sep 24 08:14:44 <ogra_> the oem snp from above describes that combo and ships everything necessary to boot
Sep 24 08:14:45 <flexiondotorg> ogra_, BTW, thanks for answering all these questions.
Sep 24 08:14:55 <ogra_> np :)
Sep 24 08:14:56 <flexiondotorg> ogra_, OK, thanks.
Sep 24 08:15:18 <flexiondotorg> After 15.10 I think I'm going to spend to first couple of week into 16.04 playing with snappy.
Sep 24 08:15:27 <ogra_> the oem snap can also describe what app snaps you have preinstalled ... and even potentially ship default confis for them
Sep 24 08:15:39 <flexiondotorg> ogra_, Am I right that snappy is not suited for graphical applications right now?
Sep 24 08:15:43 <ogra_> so it is very easy to build an appliance for example
Sep 24 08:16:15 <ogra_> there is some Mir demo snap for amd64 i think, so it is "a little" suited :)
Sep 24 08:16:23 <flexiondotorg> OK
Sep 24 08:16:29 <ogra_> but far from ready for general use
Sep 24 08:16:30 <flexiondotorg> Xmir?
Sep 24 08:16:40 <ogra_> not sure if it includes Xmir
Sep 24 08:16:43 <flexiondotorg> OK
Sep 24 08:16:48 <flexiondotorg> Finally, app snaps.
Sep 24 08:17:23 <flexiondotorg> Are these discrete apps that can have inter apps dependencies or are they everything you need for a full stack app?
Sep 24 08:17:29 <flexiondotorg> More precisely.
Sep 24 08:17:41 <ogra_> well, imagine them as "metapackage on steroids"
Sep 24 08:17:50 <ogra_> or "project packages"
Sep 24 08:18:03 <flexiondotorg> If I wanted to make a snap of Discourse, would everything required by Discourse be in a single app snap?
Sep 24 08:18:21 <flexiondotorg> Like I do it with Docker now.
Sep 24 08:18:29 <ogra_> i.e. i'm currently packaging a mailserver snap ... that consistes of dovecot, postfix, spamassasin and the bits needed to make them work together
Sep 24 08:18:42 <flexiondotorg> Ok, understood.
Sep 24 08:19:23 <flexiondotorg> So, in the future, if I wanted to make Snappy MATE the whole desktop and all compoents applications would be a single app snap?
Sep 24 08:19:51 <ogra_> yeah ... plus application snaps
Sep 24 08:20:18 <flexiondotorg> So, MATE desktop would be one snap. Firefox another. LibreOffice another and so on?
Sep 24 08:20:22 <ogra_> i.e the whole basic desktop would be one single one ... and then you have a libreoffice and a firefox snap on top
Sep 24 08:20:29 <ogra_> heh
Sep 24 08:20:29 <flexiondotorg> Exactly.
Sep 24 08:20:30 <flexiondotorg> Cool.
Sep 24 08:20:32 <ogra_> *snap*
Sep 24 08:20:33 <ogra_> :)
Sep 24 08:20:36 <flexiondotorg> :-D
Sep 24 08:20:57 <flexiondotorg> In 10 minutes you taught me everything I needed to know.
Sep 24 08:21:01 <ogra_> haha
Sep 24 08:21:11 <ogra_> there is also #snappy btw :)
Sep 24 08:21:21 <flexiondotorg> OOh.
Sep 24 08:21:38 <flexiondotorg> And joined. Thanks.
Sep 24 08:21:51 <ogra_> and very newly we have snapcraft ... a tool that makes building snaps easy enough my mom coould do it ;)
Sep 24 08:22:09 <ogra_> well, probably not my mom :)
Sep 24 08:22:22 <flexiondotorg> For building app snaps?
Sep 24 08:22:23 <ogra_> but yu dont need big skills with it
Sep 24 08:22:36 <ogra_> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ogra/+junk/ircproxy/files
Sep 24 08:23:10 <flexiondotorg> ogra_, Reading that now. You should use ZNC ;-)
Sep 24 08:23:12 <ogra_> all you need is the snapcraft.yaml ... the rest is fully automatic (the other bits there are just glue)
Sep 24 08:23:27 <flexiondotorg> Coolness.
Sep 24 08:23:44 <ogra_> yo go into the dir with the snapcraft.yaml ... call snapcraft and out comes a snap
Sep 24 08:24:11 <flexiondotorg> stage-packages being debs?
Sep 24 08:24:20 <ogra_> and if you upload your branch to LP there is a single button "build snap" that does the same and even uploads it to the store for you
Sep 24 08:24:24 <ogra_> right
Sep 24 08:24:32 <ogra_> but they could also be a github branch
Sep 24 08:24:35 <flexiondotorg> Oh man. That is brilliant.
Sep 24 08:24:41 <ogra_> that would then get automatically built
Sep 24 08:25:05 <ogra_> or some other upstream centric thing ...
Sep 24 08:25:14 <flexiondotorg> Is that LP button in there now or coming?
Sep 24 08:25:21 <ogra_> its in there right now
Sep 24 08:25:39 <flexiondotorg> OK, getting distracted from my 15.10 beta 2 testing now.
Sep 24 08:25:46 <flexiondotorg> So want to play with that.
Sep 24 08:25:47 <ogra_> haha
Sep 24 08:25:50 <flexiondotorg> Must resist.
Sep 24 08:25:55 <flexiondotorg> Thank you.
Sep 24 08:25:59 <ogra_> yeah, finish your beta :)
Sep 24 08:26:04 <flexiondotorg> That has totally sold me on the idea.
Sep 24 08:26:20 <flexiondotorg> I'll be playing with Snappy after I've got 15.10 out the door.
Sep 24 08:26:22 <flexiondotorg> Many thanks.
Sep 24 08:26:57 <ogra_> if you have questions (you surely will) ask in #snappy :)
Sep 24 08:27:57 <flexiondotorg> Will do.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Sep 25 02:59:58 2015