**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 11 02:59:57 2009 Jun 11 03:00:03 did anyone write a program that roots the pre with ssh automagically? Jun 11 03:00:23 not yet Jun 11 03:00:24 i think i can write one using the java novacom libs Jun 11 03:00:35 Zinge: Like I said, I wasn't paying attention, so that may not matter. And by unique, I mean in the same since that there are 3 machines behind my router, all with the same external IP, not as in a dedicated IP(just so we are clear) Jun 11 03:01:44 How can I keep from the Pre shutting itself off (it's on its charger) while I'm in a SSH session? Anyone? Jun 11 03:01:45 I guess this is a step, instead of refused connection I am getting a timeout. Jun 11 03:02:18 ultra; I don't know any good way, but I've been having it play a movie Jun 11 03:02:42 hm. sounds like a good workaround for that, for now, zinge. Jun 11 03:05:14 does dropbear include a sftp server? Jun 11 03:06:45 now I'm getting errors with talk.py Jun 11 03:06:54 how do i install apache, then? :p Jun 11 03:06:57 bored Jun 11 03:07:11 dropbear doesn't include an sftp server, but it works with the one from openssh Jun 11 03:07:14 So my user is there, but I can still log in as root.. Jun 11 03:07:29 scp works, though Jun 11 03:07:40 ultraBlack: ipkg install apache Jun 11 03:07:47 but I'd recommend thttpd instead Jun 11 03:08:23 skraz- you can log in as root over ssh? You sure its not telnet? Jun 11 03:08:25 rwhitby: asedeno_home and I are trying to figure out what license we should adopt Jun 11 03:08:39 rwhitby: Cannot find package apache. How do I download it? wget? Jun 11 03:09:29 as the default license for the project's code Jun 11 03:09:35 djk: what errors? Jun 11 03:09:50 djk: can you PM me the errors? Jun 11 03:09:57 ultraBlack: you need to set up the optware feed Jun 11 03:10:19 which means... O.o I always regret never adopting linux! Jun 11 03:10:41 Sargun_screen: up to the individual author - I'd recommend something that complies with OSI definition Jun 11 03:11:03 I'm personally leaning towards BSD or MIT. Jun 11 03:11:21 ultraBlack: http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository , but be aware that you're one of the first to follow that page Jun 11 03:11:26 asedeno_home: as do I Jun 11 03:11:29 zsazs, I tried scp, but I can't really do anything but browse directories Jun 11 03:11:37 can't even seem to read files Jun 11 03:11:46 I'd rather go towards GPL/LPGL Jun 11 03:11:48 er, LGPL Jun 11 03:11:55 Yeah I heard that people were just experimenting with the server stuff. Thanks, though, rwhitby. Jun 11 03:11:59 rwhitby: why did you guys choose GPL at OE? Jun 11 03:12:00 did anyone ever find a way to root from windows 7 or linux? Jun 11 03:12:19 Sargun_screen: OE is actually MIT Jun 11 03:12:21 ripper: only way I've found in linux is to run windows as a guest in virtualbox Jun 11 03:12:28 individual packages are different license Jun 11 03:12:35 don't think anyone's gotten native linux drivers yet Jun 11 03:12:41 rwhitby: ah Jun 11 03:12:51 windows 7 works, but so far only on RC1 Jun 11 03:12:53 Sargun_screen: OE is specifically MIT so it can be used commercially Jun 11 03:12:57 no, root is over telnet Jun 11 03:13:02 Okay, so let's go MIT. Jun 11 03:13:07 but i also have my user over telnet Jun 11 03:13:13 asedeno_home: works for me Jun 11 03:13:26 What about BSD? Jun 11 03:13:28 what's the difference between MIT and BSD Jun 11 03:13:30 thats why you want to use ssh; you cant connect as root over ssh when root has no password on dropbear Jun 11 03:13:36 nice Sargun_screen Jun 11 03:13:36 K, I've been trying it in win7 rc1 too, but not having much luck. The msi doesn't appear to do anything. I extracted the contents and was able to run the driver installer, but novacomd.exe won't run. Just says "Trying to start novacom-service" and exits. Jun 11 03:13:47 turn off developer mode and you won't be able to telnet anymore, only ssh Jun 11 03:13:53 http://www.opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.php Jun 11 03:13:55 I can't connect over ssh at all Jun 11 03:13:56 lol Jun 11 03:13:56 http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.html Jun 11 03:14:18 ripper- the one who had it working on Win7 RC1 was LarrySteeze (or something close to that) Jun 11 03:14:21 I'd ask him Jun 11 03:14:36 skraz- did you do everything on the ssh page again? Jun 11 03:14:42 Sweet. IPKG r00lz Jun 11 03:14:42 yep Jun 11 03:14:49 doing it a third time Jun 11 03:14:57 http://web.mit.edu/asedeno/www/pre/novaterm.py Jun 11 03:14:57 ultraBlack: make sure you don't fill / Jun 11 03:15:02 * Sargun_screen votes for BSD Jun 11 03:15:07 anyone else? Jun 11 03:15:12 e.g. don't ipkg install emacs22 until we sort out the loopback mount from /media/internal Jun 11 03:15:23 Sargun_screen: attribution-less BSD? Jun 11 03:15:37 no, BSD with attribution Jun 11 03:15:43 rwhitby: fill /? You mean fill up the root of the device? Does it fail to boot if so? :P Jun 11 03:15:43 asedeno_home: Is that the USB Term? Jun 11 03:15:46 rwhitby: isn't attributionfree BSD basically MIT? Jun 11 03:15:58 ultraBlack: we don't want to find out. Jun 11 03:16:02 Go read them, they're not that long. Jun 11 03:16:06 Alright. Jun 11 03:16:09 PreGame: It's part of it. Jun 11 03:16:15 yo Jun 11 03:16:15 You also want PuTTY. Jun 11 03:16:32 finding a spare palm usb cable is not fun. Jun 11 03:16:37 asedeno_home: yeah, the big difference between MIT and BSD is that BSD requires attribution. Jun 11 03:16:37 did you create the original putty scripts? Jun 11 03:16:49 PreGame: we have putty scripts? Jun 11 03:16:50 walmart, sprint, best buy, radio shack and target all have 0. Jun 11 03:16:57 errr python Jun 11 03:17:03 asedeno_home: you want to pickup development on my tool? Jun 11 03:17:05 PreGame: that's I Jun 11 03:17:07 tictac: it's just a microusb i believe Jun 11 03:17:15 what lines are you sending? Jun 11 03:17:21 * Sargun_screen is stuck without a GUI for a while Jun 11 03:17:40 nebula: exactly. no one had it. Jun 11 03:17:43 anyone on windows that has a java jdk installed (javac) ? Jun 11 03:17:44 Sargun_screen: I'm working on a gui for users to either remote in via USB,telnet or ssh Jun 11 03:17:55 alright. now to get the pre rooted and to work on ssh. Jun 11 03:17:57 oh nevermind Jun 11 03:18:02 PreGame: are you reverse engineering the USB protocol? Jun 11 03:18:05 tictac: yeah, i couldn't find anyone at work on monday that had one Jun 11 03:18:11 bpadalino i have jdk1.6.14 Jun 11 03:18:20 Anyhow, now that I'm done with that, I'm going to go watch the Daily Show. Jun 11 03:18:29 no i am just giong to socket to the novacom Jun 11 03:18:40 same way you did yours Jun 11 03:18:53 I'm asking my relative who works for Palm what happens if you fill / Jun 11 03:18:59 People using that script should read the comments after the license. Jun 11 03:19:02 anything interesting come out today? Jun 11 03:19:26 PreGame: how are you going to determine the IP for SSH and telnet? Jun 11 03:19:38 Anything fun on ipkg I should try? Jun 11 03:19:38 what IP ? Jun 11 03:19:40 Sargun_screen: ifconfig. Jun 11 03:19:40 the users enters it? Jun 11 03:19:51 PreGame, i tried this: http://pastie.textmate.org/508042 - it seems to work Jun 11 03:19:55 PreGame: oh, you're going to figure out the TCP protocol as well? Jun 11 03:20:00 using their libraries from the jar Jun 11 03:20:05 Ok, now I am getting "cannot create etc/event.d/backdoorscreen: nonexistant dir" Jun 11 03:20:09 so you don't have to re-create the wheel Jun 11 03:20:18 ^^^ Jun 11 03:20:29 and java has MANY tcp libraries for both telnet and ssh Jun 11 03:20:46 evening all Jun 11 03:21:00 yeah, the java thing there should work for windows USB Jun 11 03:21:03 or did that get fixed ? Jun 11 03:21:06 what's the way to move files on and off the pre? Jun 11 03:21:09 skraz-: put a / infront of that path Jun 11 03:21:14 ie: linux files Jun 11 03:21:22 Grr, the Pre doesn't have python Jun 11 03:21:42 lol. doing this too many times in a row. thanks sargun Jun 11 03:21:51 Sargun_screen can you tell me what commands you used in your script? Jun 11 03:22:11 PreGame: uhm, I can't remember Jun 11 03:22:13 ask bpadalino Jun 11 03:22:20 it's like Jun 11 03:22:22 which script for what now ? Jun 11 03:22:27 talk.py Jun 11 03:22:31 bpadalino: the packet caps you did last night Jun 11 03:22:34 oh i gotcha Jun 11 03:22:40 to login to the pre as root and run commands Jun 11 03:22:43 pregame, try that java Jun 11 03:22:49 it should work over usb Jun 11 03:22:56 what java? Jun 11 03:23:00 using the jar provided by palm Jun 11 03:23:01 can we compile programs for the pre yet? Jun 11 03:23:08 sargun, i did a java program Jun 11 03:23:14 http://pastie.textmate.org/508042 Jun 11 03:23:17 ^^ pregame Jun 11 03:23:18 hi all Jun 11 03:23:20 not sure about native Jun 11 03:23:25 hi jvm Jun 11 03:23:29 oh yea it does but that just resets the palm, i was gonna make a console gui for users Jun 11 03:23:35 hi jvmguy Jun 11 03:23:42 pregame, "just resets the palm" ? Jun 11 03:23:45 pregame, look at the pastie Jun 11 03:24:06 was that paste in the .jar file from palm? Jun 11 03:24:14 or did you maek it Jun 11 03:24:14 no Jun 11 03:24:15 greetings from treo8.net, hoho Jun 11 03:24:16 i made it Jun 11 03:24:25 bpadalino: ls -la? Jun 11 03:24:32 nebula, just as an example Jun 11 03:24:33 How do I view files on the Pre? What's the command equivalent to dir on windows? Jun 11 03:24:33 you can compile native. just setup something qemu. i have an env.. but just wating for my pre to come. Jun 11 03:24:34 yeah Jun 11 03:24:40 aha, right, ggglllooo Jun 11 03:24:43 nebula, are you on windows ? Jun 11 03:24:45 with a jdk ? Jun 11 03:24:48 bpadalino: yeah Jun 11 03:24:49 there's more on the pre Jun 11 03:24:55 try that file if you don't mind Jun 11 03:24:59 gotta stay on glibc-2.5 Jun 11 03:25:10 connect up the pre over usb and see if you start to see an ls -l Jun 11 03:25:16 one sec, brb Jun 11 03:25:20 bpadalino: you took a look at those putFile and runCommand functions? Jun 11 03:25:27 shinali, yeah Jun 11 03:25:29 I know tab shows the list of commands in PuTTY but... what about files? Jun 11 03:25:35 i just tested them out and they work while the pre is in OS mode Jun 11 03:25:45 oh slick Jun 11 03:25:45 aight Jun 11 03:26:12 ultrablack: ls Jun 11 03:26:13 for some reason I can't get into bootloader mode anymore Jun 11 03:26:15 should i turn off dev mode on the pre before I restart Jun 11 03:26:16 ? Jun 11 03:26:17 ultrablack: ls lists files. you should probably find a quick tutorial on navigating a linux machine Jun 11 03:26:35 no ftp, huh? Jun 11 03:26:39 is there tftp? Jun 11 03:26:49 if you install dropbear, you can ln -s to make scp Jun 11 03:26:52 which is what i've used Jun 11 03:26:53 or wget Jun 11 03:26:56 wget is on there Jun 11 03:27:03 Sargun_screen: then just get ipkg-utils from http://www.openembedded.org/ to make the pkgs Jun 11 03:27:03 tftp works from ipkg Jun 11 03:27:09 bpadalino, what program do you want tried? Jun 11 03:27:12 zsazs: I have used linux but not much. I'm pretty bad with simpler things quite often. Thank you zinge and zsazs for helping me. Jun 11 03:27:13 on whatever you want to roll Jun 11 03:27:16 zinge, http://pastie.textmate.org/508042 Jun 11 03:27:50 Hello all, having some issues logging in as root over SSH Jun 11 03:27:50 i am on os x - not windows ... i know windows people still can't get a term over usb ? Jun 11 03:27:57 or that was before the .py file up there ? Jun 11 03:28:04 I run the python script and get a bunch of lines saying "Sent, got, expecting" Jun 11 03:28:13 mibL thats correct Jun 11 03:28:34 bpadalino: the .py if for telnet over wifi/evdo, not usb Jun 11 03:28:37 is* Jun 11 03:28:38 oh, ok Jun 11 03:28:39 bpadalino: that java prog you wrote can work as a novaterm if you have it continuously reading output and sending input Jun 11 03:28:55 shinali, yeah - i just didn't bother coding that part up Jun 11 03:29:02 it was just to get the device and connect Jun 11 03:29:12 using their libs Jun 11 03:29:16 yeh Jun 11 03:29:41 Doh sorry, was trying to SSH not telnet in the first time Jun 11 03:29:47 grr...I don't remember how to run/compile java apps anymore Jun 11 03:29:51 zsazs: Thank you for the recommendation. I've found something that can help me. :) Jun 11 03:29:55 zinge, look at "compile" at the bottom Jun 11 03:30:02 bpadalino: another neat thing is you can directly put stuff into memory while the Pre is in the bootloader mode Jun 11 03:30:04 then you just "java Novaterm" Jun 11 03:30:08 ultraBlack: no problem Jun 11 03:30:09 shinali, i saw that! Jun 11 03:30:15 and then you can boot from that memory location Jun 11 03:30:17 how cool is that?! Jun 11 03:30:34 that could be useful for so many things Jun 11 03:30:42 any word on java apps running off the pre? Jun 11 03:30:43 absolutely Jun 11 03:30:54 ristopher, i wrote one that ran in the jvm Jun 11 03:30:58 ristopher: they run through the shell Jun 11 03:31:00 if you copy over a class file, use javahy to run it Jun 11 03:31:10 killer Jun 11 03:31:17 doh: need to reinstall java sdk on here again Jun 11 03:31:19 no javac Jun 11 03:31:33 okay, i fucked up with the adduser -h etc line for the dropbear installer, and mistyped my password so it says password unchanged, how do i change it after having already added the user? Jun 11 03:31:51 as root you should be able to use passwd I would assume Jun 11 03:31:56 passwd Jun 11 03:31:57 passwd Jun 11 03:31:58 passwd Jun 11 03:32:02 okay, thanks Jun 11 03:32:12 zinge, :( Jun 11 03:32:21 downloading JDK now Jun 11 03:32:29 nice Jun 11 03:32:40 I dumped it after my java class ended to make some room on my laptop Jun 11 03:32:44 hehe Jun 11 03:32:48 bpadalino: me too, i formatted. sun.com is slow right now Jun 11 03:32:48 ha Jun 11 03:33:05 connection still timing out over PuTTY Jun 11 03:33:06 Should I delete dropbear_0.52-3_arm.ipk when I'm done with it? Jun 11 03:33:17 you won't need it Jun 11 03:33:23 Okay. Jun 11 03:33:57 so windows still can't connect over usb ? Jun 11 03:33:58 JDK is a 15min download on the fun 786k connection I'm on here Jun 11 03:34:19 correct. Can only run the .py rooter over usb, then connect over wifi/evdo Jun 11 03:34:32 unless thats what your jjava app is for? Jun 11 03:34:49 yeah - it's what the java app is for Jun 11 03:35:03 http://pastie.textmate.org/508050 Jun 11 03:35:04 zinge: i've got 30meg, for some reason sun doesn't have mirrors Jun 11 03:35:04 someone needs to do it right - and really connect it up to a vt100 term and constantly read input/output Jun 11 03:35:13 thats my code for copying over a shell script and running it Jun 11 03:35:17 and i'm at 700k now :( Jun 11 03:35:19 k, I'll compile and run it once Jdk finished downloading and installing Jun 11 03:35:24 cool Jun 11 03:35:39 nebula, I'm dling it at about 70k Jun 11 03:35:43 I got an error with return value 127 when I did 'ipkg install apache'. Jun 11 03:35:46 ShinAli: did you get my /msg ? Jun 11 03:35:59 zinge: same, i think you mean K Jun 11 03:36:08 now i see it Jun 11 03:36:08 shinali, slick Jun 11 03:36:10 KB/kb ;) Jun 11 03:36:24 its messy but it works Jun 11 03:36:26 ...Whilst trying to configure openldap-libs Jun 11 03:36:37 actually slap on a good script and there's a rooter Jun 11 03:36:48 nebula, yeah, I meant K. I get confused Jun 11 03:37:12 it's all the hacking Jun 11 03:37:56 I'll brb in a few min. Gonna grab some food/drink while this downloads. Jun 11 03:38:57 Hello Jun 11 03:38:59 i don't know anything about dbus .. Jun 11 03:39:03 So I can log in to the Pre over SSH with WinSCP Jun 11 03:39:30 but if someone knows dbus you could probably extend the native commands that work in javascript Jun 11 03:39:44 and include sh Jun 11 03:40:26 Hello. We are making a Palm Pre Dev Team. We are a group of WebOS hobbyists who are looking to code for the benefit of the Palm Pre community. We are looking for good coders to join up. Is anyone interested? Jun 11 03:40:49 skraz-, you'll need to symlink dropbear to scp Jun 11 03:40:49 uhm.... Jun 11 03:40:49 JohnSmith1962: who is we? Jun 11 03:40:51 i'm a terrible coder Jun 11 03:41:01 i'm the greatest coder Jun 11 03:41:08 Now that I logged in with WinSCP I can log in with PuTTY Jun 11 03:41:11 Annoying. Jun 11 03:41:12 seriously i'm a god damned dinosaur Jun 11 03:41:13 ShinAli: no, I'm the greatest coder! Jun 11 03:41:15 I'm mediocre Jun 11 03:41:24 Now we've covered all our bases Jun 11 03:41:32 ShinAli: if you've looked at my code, it's the ugliest thing on the planet Jun 11 03:41:37 * tictac still doesnt know who falls into the category of "we" Jun 11 03:41:55 Sargun_screen: if you looked at my code, you'd think i run it through an obfuscator Jun 11 03:41:59 but i DON'T Jun 11 03:42:05 <|wikka|> i'm a good coder.. in C# and some Java .. other than that i'm useless Jun 11 03:42:10 * Sargun_screen has two things to do: A) Write a shell for the Pre (remote javascript interpreter) B) Write a daemon that runs on the Pre to manage the hacks Jun 11 03:42:17 tictac: a set of people with anonymous IRC names? Jun 11 03:42:20 Btw, fun quick things to do once you've got ssh set up: Delete the NASCAR app and unhide the DeveloperMode app so you don't have to type in the code every time you want to use it Jun 11 03:42:34 first thing I did was kill nascar Jun 11 03:42:36 zinge: How to on the latter? Jun 11 03:42:37 zinge: How do you unhide DevMode app? Jun 11 03:42:49 zinge: please add the unhiding instructions to the wiki Jun 11 03:42:59 rwhitby: well spoken Jun 11 03:43:02 I think if they just hadn't put the nascar app on the device we wouldn't have hacked it :-P Jun 11 03:43:15 @Sargun: agreed Jun 11 03:43:28 I'm assuming I need to create a wikidot account to edit the Wiki? Jun 11 03:43:28 Nascar sux Jun 11 03:43:31 JohnSmith1962: seriously though, what tictac said Jun 11 03:43:33 zinge: yep Jun 11 03:43:49 okey doke. I'll go do that now. Jun 11 03:43:55 thx muchly Jun 11 03:44:04 make sure to link it on the front page Jun 11 03:44:27 would the evdo connection be ppp0? Jun 11 03:44:31 yes Jun 11 03:44:32 hey, I am grepping through the logs right now, but can someone verify that a linux SDK is forthcoming? Jun 11 03:44:33 yes it is Jun 11 03:44:40 yes ppp0 would be evdo Jun 11 03:44:42 rats, ssh didn't work over it after I killed wifi Jun 11 03:44:52 zinge: Add how to delete the Nascar app as well. I might as well get rid of it. It doesn't bother me quite yet, but I'm sure it will. It kinda is now. So yeah, how to? :p Jun 11 03:45:00 it amazing how similar modern cellular modems are to old as external dialup modems Jun 11 03:45:05 AT commands 4 life Jun 11 03:45:11 hah Jun 11 03:45:17 should that be a tshirt? Jun 11 03:45:21 hmm, if there's a linux SDK, then there's gotta be drivers for linux Jun 11 03:45:29 the novacom ones i mean Jun 11 03:45:33 yeah that is my next question Jun 11 03:45:41 so we haven't gotten that yet? Jun 11 03:45:52 not from palm Jun 11 03:45:52 there's no drivers for linux unless it's automatically supported some how ? Jun 11 03:46:09 i don't really know what the drivers for os x actually do Jun 11 03:46:10 rwhitby: are you sure? Jun 11 03:46:12 uh, no novacom is the problem I believe Jun 11 03:46:12 let me investigate Jun 11 03:46:16 it's not drivers, it's novacomd Jun 11 03:46:22 oh - it's novaterm Jun 11 03:46:26 rwhitby: oh yeah, you're the shoulder surfer Jun 11 03:46:28 we're trying to fix that with java! Jun 11 03:46:30 yeah that Jun 11 03:46:30 yay Jun 11 03:46:43 novacomd encapsulates the protocol, on OSX and linux it just talks directly to the usb device, no driver needed Jun 11 03:46:44 get the linux nerds up in this action Jun 11 03:46:48 i'm sure palm has a linux version of novacom for internal use, it just wasn't included in the webosdoctor Jun 11 03:46:48 windows is a different story Jun 11 03:46:48 Sargun_screen: all I said was *we* haven't got it (i.e. publicly) yet Jun 11 03:46:58 geist: are you sure Jun 11 03:47:03 Sargun_screen: yes, I wrote it Jun 11 03:47:04 Sargun_screen: yes he is Jun 11 03:47:09 oh, yeah, you again Jun 11 03:47:12 yowza Jun 11 03:47:13 haha Jun 11 03:47:15 geist: I lapsed memory for a second Jun 11 03:47:19 geist is usually fairly canonical on these things :-) Jun 11 03:48:03 i dont know why we didn't dump the linux bits in the doctor. heck, it's far more tested than the other two, everyone is linux at palm Jun 11 03:48:19 interesting Jun 11 03:48:19 Apparently I need a password to become a member of the wiki? Jun 11 03:48:31 geist: people actually use Linux on their dev system Jun 11 03:48:37 oh yeah, absolutely Jun 11 03:48:38 lol @ zinge? everyone lol @ zinge? Jun 11 03:48:39 ubuntu 8.04 Jun 11 03:48:51 zinge: *tease* Jun 11 03:48:57 geist: man, this doesn't sound like the palm I used to know Jun 11 03:49:01 heh, it's all we use...and i'm not palm. i'm sitting on my t61p that doesn't even have windows on it and it is my main machine. Jun 11 03:49:02 ...having fun? :-) Jun 11 03:49:02 some of us (like me) use mac as the desktop and talk to a headless linux box Jun 11 03:49:08 slightly Jun 11 03:49:08 Sargun_screen: it isn't. it's a reboot Jun 11 03:49:28 geist: don't say reboot. OpenMoko had a "reboot" Jun 11 03:49:30 and then they died Jun 11 03:49:35 hmm, maybe i should apply for a job at palm Jun 11 03:49:37 geist, i like the Trenchcoat/Flash naming .. great stuff Jun 11 03:49:39 zinge: I /msg'd you the wiki pw Jun 11 03:49:41 you should, we're hiring! Jun 11 03:49:48 especially linux kernel people Jun 11 03:49:54 * Sargun_screen isn't a programmer Jun 11 03:50:08 that puts a kink in things Jun 11 03:50:08 * Sargun_screen is a networking/sysadmin arch guy. Jun 11 03:50:18 i live in sunnyvale already, hah Jun 11 03:50:26 i only program fpga's for software radios :( Jun 11 03:50:27 bpadalino: thanks. trenchcoat was cdm's doing Jun 11 03:50:37 geist, do you think what's happened in the last day or so is a surprise to you guys or somewhat expected? Jun 11 03:50:49 before the arrow to the chip logo we had a more... explicit icon Jun 11 03:51:15 hehe Jun 11 03:52:07 rwhitby, sorry for being obtuse but... how to I see that msg? is that an irc thing, a forum thing, or a wiki thing? Jun 11 03:52:11 Hello. We are making a Palm Pre Dev Team. We are a group of WebOS hobbyists who are looking to code for the benefit of the Palm Pre community. We are looking for good coders to join up. Is anyone interested? Jun 11 03:52:24 John- who is "we"? Jun 11 03:52:26 spammy Jun 11 03:52:41 John f-ing smith dude Jun 11 03:52:47 1962 Jun 11 03:52:51 yeah Jun 11 03:52:55 oh wait, now I see the tabw ith your msg Jun 11 03:53:05 thats nifty Jun 11 03:53:18 How many of us are IRC noobs as well? *raises hand* How do I update my status? Jun 11 03:53:23 sorry, I haven't been on IRC for years, and I'm using a web client that doesn't make it real easy to see when you have msgs Jun 11 03:53:27 your status? Jun 11 03:53:28 Ok gais Jun 11 03:53:30 this isnt aim or msn Jun 11 03:53:30 lol Jun 11 03:53:39 JohnSmith1962: you'd probably get more bites if you answered that question Jun 11 03:53:48 im guess /status Jun 11 03:53:53 *guessing Jun 11 03:53:57 flash67: that thing Sargun_screen just did Jun 11 03:54:09 flash67: like 4 minutes ago Jun 11 03:54:10 member:identifier:shinali: I'm sorry Jun 11 03:54:14 Which question Jun 11 03:54:15 ultraBlack: /me blahblah blah Jun 11 03:54:17 any suggestions regarding moving files off the Pre without using an FTP server to push to? Should I just load an sftp server on the pre itself? Jun 11 03:54:19 oh just type /me Jun 11 03:54:21 * ultraBlack is an IRC noob. Jun 11 03:54:23 yay! Jun 11 03:54:23 on monday i had a Pre moment where i realized i couldn't go back to my 755. i was able to get something done in 30 seconds that would have not happened on a previous pda. Jun 11 03:54:35 JohnSmith1962: who is this Pre Dev Team comprised of Jun 11 03:54:53 if only i had a pre right now Jun 11 03:55:01 fucking canada Jun 11 03:55:02 honestly Jun 11 03:55:04 so far the pre is the best pda since my psion 3/3a's from years ago. truly game changing. Jun 11 03:55:19 member:identifier:shinali: Several of the members requested to be kept anonymous. As a result as of now no one will be publicly known. However, we certainly welcome all new members. Jun 11 03:55:22 dreadchicken: which is? Jun 11 03:55:32 add in a little ssh access and well, just icing on the cake. Jun 11 03:55:33 ... Jun 11 03:55:37 JohnSmith1962: ? Jun 11 03:55:56 jdk installing now, bpadalino Jun 11 03:56:05 zinge, do you happen to have linux as well ? Jun 11 03:56:07 * Sargun_screen has a feelings JohnSmith1962 wants to start some iPhone dev team analogy Jun 11 03:56:08 we know where apps are downloaded to? Jun 11 03:56:09 how about the members who haven't requested to be kept anonymous? Jun 11 03:56:11 I discovered that the CPU on Pre can run at 600Mhz, 550Mhz, 500Mhz, 250Mhz, and 125Mhz. By default locks it to 500Mhz. Jun 11 03:56:17 zinge: How's the wiki entry coming Jun 11 03:56:18 Yeah I saw dropbear in the rootfs image and thought that would work for ssh, but then I saw it's empty Jun 11 03:56:43 @dkelson: I was wondering about that earlier since I thought the processor was 600Mhz, but ran at 500 Jun 11 03:56:45 bpadalino- Lemme check my desktop. If I do, its running in a VM. Is that ok? Jun 11 03:56:51 member:identifier:sargun_screen: Not a copy of the iPhone Dev Team. But something comparable. We are using it as a model. Jun 11 03:57:00 ultra: working on it. Not enough hands. Just found the "create a new page" page Jun 11 03:57:02 zinge: as long as it can connect the pre to it Jun 11 03:57:06 heat and battery Jun 11 03:57:07 zinge, not sure - maybe Jun 11 03:57:12 i think it moves around Jun 11 03:57:14 I modified my Pre so that it dynamically changes the CPU speed based on load. It dropped down to 125Mhz right away while I wasn't doing anything. I wonder it that helps battery. Jun 11 03:57:15 has anyone poked busybox to see what functions are compiled in but not symlinked? Jun 11 03:57:17 it just starts off at 500 Jun 11 03:57:23 omg anyone remember mindterm? Jun 11 03:57:28 could that be used here? Jun 11 03:57:31 Can never have enough hands Jun 11 03:57:36 did novaterm get ported to windows yet? Jun 11 03:57:41 dkelson: it doesn't help as much as you think Jun 11 03:57:52 I did notice it increased "initial" lag when I start to do something. Jun 11 03:57:53 modern cpus are very leaky, just having them powered up uses most of the juice Jun 11 03:57:55 skraz- apps are in /usr/palm/applications Jun 11 03:57:55 brikus: I have Jun 11 03:58:01 geist, seems it would do freq scaling. Jun 11 03:58:03 not mindterm.. what was it. The web ssh client Jun 11 03:58:16 yep, it just isn't as effective as you think Jun 11 03:58:47 So to get rid of the Nascar app I just delete it? Jun 11 03:59:02 right, 20% or such from top to bottom, then 80% to off or some such. Jun 11 03:59:04 com.handson.app.nascar Jun 11 03:59:13 dreadchicken: right Jun 11 03:59:14 brikus: didn't find anything Jun 11 03:59:14 already found it, thanks Jun 11 03:59:15 actually Jun 11 03:59:20 ristopher: mindterm was a java web ssh client Jun 11 03:59:26 yes Jun 11 03:59:28 ipkg remove com.handson.app.nascar Jun 11 03:59:29 ssh1 iirc Jun 11 03:59:33 is what I used Jun 11 03:59:33 i don't think it will work Jun 11 03:59:34 so with a lot of the more modren ones you awnt to run and then power gate ASAP Jun 11 03:59:36 has anyone using the current SSH backdoor noticed the firewall rules reverting back to the stock rules? Do we need to re-apply the firewall rules on a interval? Jun 11 03:59:41 omap is pretty good at it Jun 11 03:59:45 ristopher: it worked for you? Jun 11 03:59:48 i have not, they have stayed for me. Jun 11 03:59:49 ristopher: thanks Jun 11 03:59:51 dkelson: my script does that, doesn't it? Jun 11 03:59:54 ristopher: I just rm-rf'd it Jun 11 03:59:56 but that thing is like 10 years old Jun 11 03:59:57 oscopy: yeah I know getty can be compiled in but I'm not sure if there are any real 'services' that are Jun 11 04:00:00 @pfeifer yea, just had to reboot Jun 11 04:00:07 Sargun_screen, your telnet script does, the current SSH script doesn't Jun 11 04:00:31 i haven't seen it revert yet, so i took them out. Jun 11 04:00:35 can we start applications over ssh? Jun 11 04:00:36 sshv1 has some serious flaws Jun 11 04:00:47 What was the other thing we were meaning to do? Jun 11 04:00:51 Ristopher, I'm gonna put ipkg remove com.handson.app.nascar on the wiki, cause thats better than just rm-ing int Jun 11 04:00:54 dkelson: you sure? i've left my pre running for a long time and still has the server up Jun 11 04:00:54 Totally forgot. Jun 11 04:01:06 yea it worked great once I found it Jun 11 04:01:15 sshv1 is still infinitely more secure and featureful than telnet though Jun 11 04:01:35 ShinAli, which technique are your using? the telnet method documented in the wiki or the ssh method documented in the wiki? Jun 11 04:01:41 'are you using' Jun 11 04:01:50 @zinge: WARNING: I don't see it in the repository so removing it may make it gone forever, unless it is included in the doctor jar Jun 11 04:01:52 i'm using ssh Jun 11 04:02:05 at first it was telnet but i commented out the while loop as shown Jun 11 04:02:14 Agreed. I'll also put instructions on how to just hide instead of completly deleting Jun 11 04:02:17 anyone have issues getting the palm to connect to a ad-hoc wifi net? Jun 11 04:02:25 dkelson, i've only had one reboot in the last 5 hours and several usb storage trips and the rules have stayed as they should without me refreshing them. Jun 11 04:02:25 Oh right unhide the DevMode app. Jun 11 04:02:34 adding it now ultra, gimme half a sec Jun 11 04:02:38 Anyone else see the commented code in the view for the camera app? Jun 11 04:02:49 Ristopher & zinge: Yes, I would rather hide it, I suppose, than full-on delete it. Jun 11 04:03:02 JohnSmith1962: good luck with your secretive dev team work - we're about openness in this channel, so you may not find many takers here ... Jun 11 04:03:25 ShinAli, the evidence (so far) is that nothing on the Pre is restoring the stock firewall rules (locking out SSH/telnet) out from under our feet. So we shouldn't need any periodic resetting of the rules ourselves. Jun 11 04:03:26 Zinge: Yes yes! not rushing you Jun 11 04:03:29 but it'll be a cool club, with a secret handshake and all. Jun 11 04:03:57 alright guys i create a program that works via usb Jun 11 04:04:12 so if you aren't able to wifi into your pre you can still have root access to it Jun 11 04:04:15 with the cable Jun 11 04:04:21 pregame: :O Jun 11 04:04:35 what did you write it in? Jun 11 04:04:39 more like 8===D~ O: Jun 11 04:04:42 I have a cleaner/respawning upstart event script for SSH almost ready for consumption. I'm just testing it now. Jun 11 04:04:45 bpadalino: we ought to try to replicate the novacom client in java Jun 11 04:04:45 java Jun 11 04:04:49 @PreGame sweet, that would get me up and running with lynx a lot faster since I can't seem to get in over evdo for some reason Jun 11 04:04:49 PreGame: you did? Jun 11 04:04:50 coolio Jun 11 04:05:04 ShinAli, i agree Jun 11 04:05:05 dkelson, if you need a tester, let me know. Jun 11 04:05:06 yea it uses all the novacom libraries so it was easy to do Jun 11 04:05:08 all the functionality as well Jun 11 04:05:18 i cant get my wireless to work properly Jun 11 04:05:33 exactly Jun 11 04:05:34 PreGame: good job. Jun 11 04:05:39 * Sargun_screen pets PreGame Jun 11 04:05:44 purrrrr Jun 11 04:05:50 the pre doesnt seem to like ad-hoc networks Jun 11 04:05:57 Anyone polk around with the palmInitMedia() function Jun 11 04:05:59 i got the basis from bpadalino Jun 11 04:06:06 tictac: yeah Jun 11 04:06:07 I notice a lot of references to 'video' Jun 11 04:06:22 PreGame: so post it already :P Jun 11 04:06:22 its either youtube video or they will add video in later Jun 11 04:06:33 can we start apps over ssh> Jun 11 04:07:08 "Unhide the DeveloperMode App " added to the wiki Jun 11 04:07:27 zinge: cool ty Jun 11 04:08:13 skraz-: figure out how the launcher opens an app, then do it yourself Jun 11 04:08:22 the palm screen is 480x230, right? Jun 11 04:08:27 er, 480x320? Jun 11 04:08:28 I'd assume it is a luna:// or palm:// url Jun 11 04:08:38 zinge: thanks for the wiki contribution Jun 11 04:08:53 adding how to hide/delete NASCAR app now Jun 11 04:08:57 sargun_screen: 320x240 i thought Jun 11 04:09:03 heh Jun 11 04:09:11 480x320 Jun 11 04:09:14 I have no idea. *looking up* Jun 11 04:09:20 yeah that sounds better lol Jun 11 04:09:21 idk Jun 11 04:09:28 480h, 320w Jun 11 04:09:42 same as my Tapwave Zodiac :-) Jun 11 04:09:44 im still stuck without wifi working. :-/ Jun 11 04:09:54 rwhitby: which wiki is that? Jun 11 04:10:03 zinge:same as my iPhone ;) Jun 11 04:10:08 brikus: predev.dotwiki.com Jun 11 04:10:11 bpadalino: is there a repository we can use? Jun 11 04:10:13 brikus: the one in the /topic :-) Jun 11 04:10:22 brikus: the one in the header of the channel bud Jun 11 04:10:23 * Sargun_screen doesn't know much about frame buffers Jun 11 04:10:29 predev.wikidot.com Jun 11 04:10:33 shinali, github? wherever you want Jun 11 04:10:34 go nuts Jun 11 04:10:50 ShinAli: saurik has svn set up, but anything public is fine Jun 11 04:11:06 svn sucks, git ftw Jun 11 04:11:12 evening Jun 11 04:11:13 So, has anyone poked at novaterm.py? (I should perhaps call it novaproxy.py) Jun 11 04:11:15 rwhitby: I am on there, but I didn't see that info so I wanted to make sure it was the right one Jun 11 04:11:27 good evening cdm - i heard you were the mastermind behind Trenchcoat/Flash Jun 11 04:11:33 i'm not too familiar for git, just little niggles from my comp graphics class Jun 11 04:11:35 made me chuckle in my cube at work today Jun 11 04:11:39 cdm: evening Jun 11 04:11:44 cdm: g'day - how are we tracking so far - anything causing anyone any concern? Jun 11 04:11:46 just found the "List all pages" link though which helped out ;) Jun 11 04:11:55 bpadalino: Funny huh? You use trenchcoat to flash bootie Jun 11 04:11:56 cdm: how is management taking us? Jun 11 04:12:00 heheh Jun 11 04:12:03 Hahahaha Jun 11 04:12:06 damn. since I already deleted my NASCAR app, can someone send me the contents of /usr/palm/applications/com.handson.app.nascar/appinfo.json please? Jun 11 04:12:16 * cdm is good at making up fun names. Jun 11 04:12:18 zinge, you can get that from the jar Jun 11 04:12:21 zinge: it's in the webOS.tar Jun 11 04:12:26 luna is my name too Jun 11 04:12:26 er, sprint.tar Jun 11 04:12:34 cdm, why did you pick luna ? Jun 11 04:12:36 because he's a lunatic Jun 11 04:12:43 ;) Jun 11 04:12:51 like the rest of us Jun 11 04:12:53 cdm: so, were you in all day emergency meetings about what to do about us? or does palm already have a plan? Jun 11 04:12:54 indeed Jun 11 04:12:57 the whole dbus/java/html5 stuff is very interesting to me Jun 11 04:13:01 zinge: man tar that stuff up before you delete Jun 11 04:13:25 if I had to guess I'd say they weren't exactly taken by surprise by what happened Jun 11 04:13:26 I'm getting a new phone tomorrow (mine has dead pixels) so I don't care if I delete something by accident Jun 11 04:13:41 brikus: for sure Jun 11 04:13:46 zinge: mine has dead pixels and they wont exchange it! Jun 11 04:13:57 they invited it by distributing an unencrypted rootfs Jun 11 04:13:57 almost feels like viral marketing for the hackers Jun 11 04:14:00 i'm more worried about sprint having a fit. Jun 11 04:14:13 deadc: same here Jun 11 04:14:13 all the iphone rootfs images are encrypted Jun 11 04:14:21 Sargun: they told me they would and have a pre on hold for me to come in a exchange Jun 11 04:14:26 agree big time, dreadchicken Jun 11 04:14:28 i suspect palm is mildly amused. Jun 11 04:15:07 I would think palm would be more than mildly amused. Anything amazing we do is great PR for them in the face of the new iphone stuff Jun 11 04:15:09 in reality they're checking for everyone who has ran bin/sh in an unauthorized fashion on their device, and are running GPS trackers, monitoring our mic and camera Jun 11 04:15:11 zinge: you might want to consider adding a step saying to hit i in order to insert text in vi, for us noobs who don't know how to use vi. Jun 11 04:15:25 they're going to black bag us, and then turn us into developers. Jun 11 04:15:28 sargun: lol Jun 11 04:15:30 unless we know the background on the "leak" I would suspect that it may have been intentional Jun 11 04:15:37 ultraBlack, google vi primer Jun 11 04:15:54 dreadchicken: i know, i suck Jun 11 04:15:55 or you could just remember :x and i Jun 11 04:16:02 " : x " Jun 11 04:16:04 speaking of vi where is vim? Jun 11 04:16:05 cdm: so, is all the compositing done in hardware? Jun 11 04:16:15 :wq! Jun 11 04:16:18 Sargun_screen: the corporate ninjas will be at your location shortly Jun 11 04:16:21 rwhitby: where's saurik's svn at? Jun 11 04:16:22 if you cannot figure it out, I am not telling ya. Jun 11 04:16:23 uh, this is an imbedded system oscopy Jun 11 04:16:24 please stay put Jun 11 04:16:27 my WebOS tar doesn't seem to have the NASCAR app in it. Can someone just send me the com.handson.app.nascar/appinfo.json real quick so I can finish this wiki page? Jun 11 04:16:29 @ultraBlack: I knew there had to be some reason I kept using vi over all other choices. Today is the day. Jun 11 04:16:40 lol Jun 11 04:16:41 nascar app is in sprint.tar Jun 11 04:16:45 yeah, i thought we were being damn nice for leaving vi in there Jun 11 04:16:47 zinge: I would, but I can't right now Jun 11 04:16:54 zinge: in like an hour I can Jun 11 04:16:56 ristopher: Good deal for you Jun 11 04:16:59 though it is more like 'vi' Jun 11 04:17:01 brikus: that was more for the palm guy, seeing as they left so much other linux crap in there Jun 11 04:17:03 ok, thanks sargun and cynide; I'll check sprint.tar Jun 11 04:17:05 :) Jun 11 04:17:09 well, yeah. it's 'vi' Jun 11 04:17:25 @zinge the ipk is in the sprint.tar Jun 11 04:17:32 vi is handy Jun 11 04:17:37 yep Jun 11 04:17:41 and 'vi' is sometimes handy Jun 11 04:17:44 when it doesn't randomly crash Jun 11 04:17:48 indeed, i enjoy 'vi' Jun 11 04:17:51 * Sargun_screen loves the pandora app, it keeps wifi awake Jun 11 04:17:53 i used 'vi' on a daily basis Jun 11 04:18:00 @zinge unless you are getting help from someone else I'll just reinstall it Jun 11 04:18:03 pandora app is hard on the battery though too Jun 11 04:18:03 So does the music app :) Jun 11 04:18:04 vi is my favorite editor Jun 11 04:18:05 geist: compared to most stock systems I work with, the pre rootfs is a dream. Jun 11 04:18:08 I prefer nano... Jun 11 04:18:16 no nano for you Jun 11 04:18:22 nano ftw Jun 11 04:18:23 nano kills babies Jun 11 04:18:24 I noticed :( Jun 11 04:18:26 I'm gonna install gedit Jun 11 04:18:27 nano? Jun 11 04:18:29 ristopher: I got it, thanks Jun 11 04:18:30 it's fun when busybox is lacking things like ls and cat Jun 11 04:18:31 but vi kills kittens! Jun 11 04:18:31 sacrilege Jun 11 04:18:31 lol gedit Jun 11 04:18:34 i'm still recovering from emacs. Jun 11 04:18:48 brikus: if you're asking what it is, it is a text editor Jun 11 04:18:48 at least VI uses the whole kitten when it kills one Jun 11 04:19:00 vi and by extension vim because vi is on almost every unix device ever Jun 11 04:19:02 including the pre Jun 11 04:19:10 ctrl-shift-meta kitten. Jun 11 04:19:19 yeah, try to fid the meta key on a pre Jun 11 04:19:20 q! is your vi savior Jun 11 04:19:21 at least they werent using ed Jun 11 04:19:32 tictac: ed is fun. Jun 11 04:19:37 tictac: oh i totally do when talking to the teletype Jun 11 04:19:40 If my Pre wasn't such a pain in the rear I would be messing with is so much right now... Jun 11 04:19:44 i called my Pre a "box" on monday and one of my guys picked up on it...he said, "you called it a box...i know what that means." Jun 11 04:19:49 we all have one in our cube Jun 11 04:19:51 But alas, it still can't hold a charge Jun 11 04:19:51 Patrick_R_NBR: huh? Jun 11 04:19:51 heh. ill pass on using ed. Jun 11 04:19:53 how's it being a pain in the rear? Jun 11 04:20:02 30 baud ftw Jun 11 04:20:04 6 hours of battery Jun 11 04:20:08 in airplane mode Jun 11 04:20:12 lol Jun 11 04:20:14 thats bad Jun 11 04:20:14 whoa Jun 11 04:20:18 what are you running? Jun 11 04:20:18 mattwearinghat: because it cant join an ad-hoc network. Jun 11 04:20:37 assuming we ever get a terminal on the pre itself, vi is ideal because it doesn't need arrow keys to navigate Jun 11 04:20:37 cdm: can you fix that? Jun 11 04:20:39 lol, my first day i was somewhat worried but i've been making full days now. may be as good or better than my 755, not sure yet. Jun 11 04:20:41 dreadchicken: Thank you for the tutorial. Jun 11 04:20:42 although I did amuse myself looking through apps in the .jar file Jun 11 04:20:43 I pushed novaproxy.py (formerly novaterm.py) to github. http://github.com/asedeno/novaproxy/ Jun 11 04:20:43 just need an on-screen 'esc' key of course Jun 11 04:20:44 i had a poor amount of battery today too while listening to music .. less than 8 hours Jun 11 04:20:56 and found pics of the pre with a gsm card Jun 11 04:21:15 I've already resolved myself to buying another battery and this is only my second day with the pre Jun 11 04:21:21 zsazs: on the iPhone, our terminal uses swipes to navigate the way you use arrow keys Jun 11 04:21:32 i'll get a seido extended once they come out, ghost armor is otw. Jun 11 04:21:53 but I'm sure lots of people here are hardcore power users so we're not exactly typically usage scenarios Jun 11 04:21:54 cyanidepoison: good idea.. kind of like the orange+swipe text field navigation in text fields on the pre Jun 11 04:22:03 how long do people get with the iphone? Jun 11 04:22:08 Hide/Delete Nascar app added to wiki Jun 11 04:22:18 I was going to swing by the Sprint today, but forgot to bring the stock backplate with me Jun 11 04:22:20 brikus: battery life? Jun 11 04:22:22 once we get a ui ssh client i'll be even happier. Jun 11 04:22:33 (the "hide" part is untested, because I already deleted the app and dont feel like reinstalling it) Jun 11 04:22:40 ugh -- ssh is fail Jun 11 04:22:45 novacom FTW Jun 11 04:22:51 cyanidepoison: yeah Jun 11 04:22:58 oscopy: optware has vim Jun 11 04:23:04 i think they're super interested in it because they dont have linux novacomd Jun 11 04:23:04 When you hide the NASCAR, does it show up with the Konami code? Jun 11 04:23:11 and no windows novacom (though that'd be super easy to fix) Jun 11 04:23:17 no idea Jun 11 04:23:18 cdm, ssh for outbound to external boxen. Jun 11 04:23:25 somebody check for me? Jun 11 04:23:28 I will Jun 11 04:23:38 If it doesn't and you want it too, I'll figure it out and add instructions for that as well Jun 11 04:23:44 brikus: I get days of battery life on my iPhone during light use Jun 11 04:23:59 heavier days about 10 hours Jun 11 04:24:04 zinge: please don't ask others in channel to send you palm or sprint copyrighted binaries. Jun 11 04:24:12 ok, sorry about that Jun 11 04:24:14 much of that is cdma vs gsm probably. Jun 11 04:24:34 gsm is miserly Jun 11 04:24:41 rwhitby: thanks, I'll check it out Jun 11 04:24:44 ...I like GSM Jun 11 04:25:03 PreGame: where is that usb app? Jun 11 04:25:10 ooo I like vi Jun 11 04:25:14 but then again I wrote the code to use the hayes command set to send an SMS with the iPhone's cell modem, so I would Jun 11 04:25:40 i made a code modification in one of the .js files for the messaging app, but it is not getting picked up. do i have to do something besides mounting the fs as rw? Jun 11 04:25:42 novacom.py just says listening on port 8023 Jun 11 04:25:43 I thought evdo and utms are pretty comparable power usage wise, but I haven't really paid attention much since the celluar devices I work with aren't on batteries Jun 11 04:26:03 PreGame: Did you read the comments at the top, under the license? Jun 11 04:26:05 Do I need to reboot my Pre to see the Developer Mode app in the launcher? Jun 11 04:26:09 d0lph1nK1ng: my guess? remount ro, and reboot. Jun 11 04:26:16 bpadalino: do you want me to set up a project with netbeans or elcipse? Jun 11 04:26:18 there is probably a better way to do this Jun 11 04:26:25 cdm: how do you restart/reset luna? Jun 11 04:26:27 sargun, thats what i did Jun 11 04:26:37 ultra, yes Jun 11 04:26:47 zinge: On it. Jun 11 04:26:53 d0lph1nK1ng: after saving out the change? Jun 11 04:27:00 yes Jun 11 04:27:11 where would all the fun be if you were just given answers for these things? Jun 11 04:27:15 i also tried replacing the alert.wav Jun 11 04:27:23 dolphin: some changes just need you to quit and reopen the app, some require you to reset the phone Jun 11 04:27:31 zinge: he said he rebooted the phone Jun 11 04:27:37 "The system is going down for power off NOW!" Jun 11 04:27:38 is a pretty weird message. Is that English? Jun 11 04:27:50 yes Jun 11 04:27:56 yeah.... Jun 11 04:27:57 it's linglish Jun 11 04:28:06 * phb waves at mattwearinghat Jun 11 04:28:12 heh Jun 11 04:28:16 OMAP3430, what is it? Jun 11 04:28:22 * tictac kicks his cisco ap out the door as it refuses to cooperate Jun 11 04:28:29 every time I reboot it pops up trying to install a driver Jun 11 04:28:36 sorry dolphin, didnt see you had already rebooted. As far as the alert tone goes, make sure its the exact same format as the original Jun 11 04:28:47 I think its listed somewhere on the forum Jun 11 04:29:03 * Patrick_R_NBR has started using his pre as an hourlong timer. From full charge to empty Jun 11 04:29:06 shinali, i don't have netbeans .. but i've only used eclipse like twice Jun 11 04:29:06 Nope, NASCAR doesn't show up in the Konami code menu Jun 11 04:29:14 Still shows the dev mode even if enabled in the regular menu Jun 11 04:29:20 Not that it matters, was just wondering Jun 11 04:29:26 bpadalino: do you have ant ? Jun 11 04:29:34 ristopher, that's the CPU (and other supporting stuff like GPU) on the pre. maybe before the pre bootloader starts your computer sees the omap3430 directly Jun 11 04:29:40 netbeans makes an ant script to build and stuff Jun 11 04:30:04 zsazs: looks that way, it drops off as soon as it makes it past some part of boot Jun 11 04:30:14 the pre has better batterly life than the sharp zaurus i had 7 years ago Jun 11 04:30:15 let me check Jun 11 04:30:15 holy crap 2800mAh battery for the pre Jun 11 04:30:17 it's os x so i think so Jun 11 04:30:21 that lasted like 2 hours Jun 11 04:30:25 yes Jun 11 04:30:25 http://www.fommy.com/view-full-page.asp?divid=Palm&model=Palm+Pre&cat=Batteries&skuno=83630 Jun 11 04:30:26 i have ant Jun 11 04:30:39 cool Jun 11 04:30:51 I see someone making a large back to the phone that contains more battery Jun 11 04:31:10 Thats what the link I just posted is for Jun 11 04:31:32 lithium ion has like half the energy density of TNT Jun 11 04:31:37 2800mAH Jun 11 04:31:38 hah Jun 11 04:31:39 Patrick_R_NBR hah Jun 11 04:31:41 $89.95?? wow Jun 11 04:31:43 i want to carry that in my pants, oh yes. Jun 11 04:31:44 TNT Jun 11 04:31:45 ripoff Jun 11 04:31:46 lol Jun 11 04:31:46 $89.95 is pretty steep though Jun 11 04:31:46 mib, I can look into that and fix it if you want... but if you don't care one way or another I'd rather not :-) Jun 11 04:32:12 yeah but it includes a (presumably incompatible w/Touchstone) black battery door. Jun 11 04:32:28 2800mAH? holy shit Jun 11 04:32:34 Yeah I'll wait for better batteries to come out though Jun 11 04:32:37 I think I'll just figure out how I can rig the puck up to my pants Jun 11 04:32:38 I do admit touchstone > big battery Jun 11 04:32:40 can somebody explain to me how I add a link to the wiki? Can't understand the "how to edit the wiki" page too well. I'm just trying to add a link to the page I made to the fornt Jun 11 04:32:47 i'm betting it adds an extra inch of thickness Jun 11 04:32:56 thats what she said Jun 11 04:32:56 But you can't carry the touchstone with you everywhere all day Jun 11 04:32:56 and a lump Jun 11 04:33:03 For those of us who get out of the house Jun 11 04:33:05 but the touchstone makes your phone a speakerphone Jun 11 04:33:13 Is that an inductive charging system in your pants or...? Jun 11 04:33:26 and enables nightstand mode Jun 11 04:33:27 lol Jun 11 04:33:28 worth every penny! Jun 11 04:33:29 @ultraBlack sure you can. I'm going to see if I can't make some docker techpants carry extra power for the pre Jun 11 04:33:32 Patrick_R_NBR: i would tell you what she said, but all i get out of her is screams of pain Jun 11 04:33:34 nightstand mode indeed Jun 11 04:33:37 I think the touchstone is a little overpriced as well personally Jun 11 04:33:41 Goodnight all, good stuff in here. Jun 11 04:33:47 Well, considering I don't get service where the touchsone is currenly residing, not a big deal for me with the speakerphone Jun 11 04:33:53 nightstand mode? as in you can't turn off the freaking backlight when the pre's on the touchstone? Jun 11 04:33:57 touchstone is overpriced indeed Jun 11 04:34:07 zsazs: Can you? Jun 11 04:34:09 have you tried getting a free airave from sprint where you have no service? Jun 11 04:34:20 ultraBlack: I haven't found out how yet Jun 11 04:34:25 lol Jun 11 04:34:27 get to hacking Jun 11 04:34:36 i'm looking :) Jun 11 04:34:40 it's dimmer than every clock i've ever used Jun 11 04:34:52 The stupid airave people said that the only way to get one was at the sprint store Jun 11 04:34:58 my clock has red digits, which doesn't ruin night vision Jun 11 04:34:58 zinge: Okay so Dev Mode app isn't showing up in launcher Jun 11 04:35:26 bah wifi is driving me nuts. Jun 11 04:35:33 you save the file for vi and restarted the phone? Jun 11 04:35:38 worked for me and mib Jun 11 04:35:42 Patrick_R_NBR: sprint retentions will send you one if you call and threaten to cancel service because you have bad coverage at home Jun 11 04:35:45 from* vi Jun 11 04:35:53 zinge, could that be done using lunaprop? Jun 11 04:35:54 that is the first I've seen about Airave Jun 11 04:35:56 aye, i did zinge. i may not have remounted Jun 11 04:35:58 instructions would be more clean if so Jun 11 04:36:06 I'm going to bitch at them tomorrow in store Jun 11 04:36:10 you shouldnt need to remount ultraBlack Jun 11 04:36:13 How do you keep from having broadcast messages about powerd stopping and starting. I tried mesg n, but that didn't work because the messages are coming from root. Jun 11 04:36:14 but if they can transition calls from my home broadband to their cell network that's pretty awesome Jun 11 04:36:15 and Pre needs IRC client. Jun 11 04:36:24 irc client would be awesome Jun 11 04:36:33 agreed, tried Mibbit on Pre earlier today Jun 11 04:36:35 couldnt log in Jun 11 04:36:39 i tried an ajax irc client on the web browser... wasn't pretty Jun 11 04:36:44 shouldn't need to remount, jsut restart Jun 11 04:36:50 I really wish SDK was out now Jun 11 04:36:54 bpadalino: got it working in eclipse Jun 11 04:37:01 emkman: I have no idea, I haven't looked at lunaprop at all yet Jun 11 04:37:06 I have my purty little FTP script I want to port to the Pre Jun 11 04:37:20 PHP PEAR FTW Jun 11 04:37:25 irssi ;) Jun 11 04:37:53 PreGame: have you gotten the non-wifi root issue working? Jun 11 04:38:04 zinge: ah. I forgot a colon in the file. I try to add it now but it says the file is readonly Jun 11 04:38:11 have to remount as rw Jun 11 04:38:14 and su Jun 11 04:38:15 bpadalino: success! Jun 11 04:38:17 ok Jun 11 04:38:17 zinge, there is a wiki entry on it, its basically a property reader/editor Jun 11 04:38:20 i will try it out Jun 11 04:38:31 ok. I can take a look at it in a few minutes Jun 11 04:38:41 that would be better then just manually editing the file Jun 11 04:39:03 ultra, tell me if it works once you fix the colon Jun 11 04:39:11 you know what the pre is missing? mplayer. Jun 11 04:39:35 ok, looks to me like i just ran a java app that used novaterm to talk to the pre in windows. Jun 11 04:39:39 got a directory listing Jun 11 04:39:41 is that like a preppy version of the oldest hanson bro? Jun 11 04:39:45 sorry, that was a terrible joke Jun 11 04:40:03 java app on the pre or on windows? Jun 11 04:40:11 mplayer is a cli media player Jun 11 04:40:12 suspend_with_charger = false Jun 11 04:40:19 don't get too excited, just windows :) Jun 11 04:40:24 link Jun 11 04:40:26 NOW Jun 11 04:40:28 touchstone issue suspend_with_charger = false Jun 11 04:40:28 ffmpeg is on the pre though Jun 11 04:40:30 mib_117axs: that will disable the automatic suspend? Jun 11 04:40:30 or later Jun 11 04:40:34 bpadalino: do you want to try to write a version of novacom that isn't dependant on webos doctor? Jun 11 04:40:44 its there, dont know Jun 11 04:40:56 I has unlimited web space if it is needed Jun 11 04:41:03 along with unlimited bandwidth Jun 11 04:41:08 actually i don't think we should now that i think about it Jun 11 04:41:08 Patrick: where Jun 11 04:41:28 shinali, i think we should leverage as much as possible from them Jun 11 04:41:28 I'm guessing Dreamhost Jun 11 04:41:28 Patrick: just curious Jun 11 04:41:31 silentgreensystems.info, silentredsystems.info Jun 11 04:41:41 nebula just verified that what i wrote works in windows Jun 11 04:41:44 lots of random domains hosted with lunarpages Jun 11 04:41:46 ultra, is devmodeapp showing up in launcher now? Jun 11 04:41:54 i just remembered i had a linux vm .. Jun 11 04:41:54 bpadalino: agreed Jun 11 04:41:55 cool Jun 11 04:41:56 so i will try it there Jun 11 04:42:03 \usr\var\preference\com.palm.power\ Jun 11 04:42:05 zinge: lemme look Jun 11 04:42:13 k Jun 11 04:42:13 we got any takers on linux? Jun 11 04:42:22 zinge: No. :'( Jun 11 04:42:39 what's up on linux? Jun 11 04:42:50 I used to have a linux! Jun 11 04:42:59 I am running linux, why? Jun 11 04:43:05 It broke down and I had to change it in for a toyota Jun 11 04:43:13 ultra: can you msg me the whole line that has "visible" in it that you changed? Jun 11 04:43:14 http://i39.tinypic.com/9k49zd.jpg Jun 11 04:43:25 I am looking for some qemu inspiration; even using the Maemo qemu I am getting "Illegal Instruction" when launching init. Is anybody else working on this? Jun 11 04:43:26 shinali, i am installing it on ubuntu 8.1 VM right now Jun 11 04:43:29 wait, is that allowed? Jun 11 04:43:30 java client to interface with device Jun 11 04:43:45 zinge: I forgot a b. Jun 11 04:43:47 mplayer would be nice, perhaps. Jun 11 04:43:49 bpadalino: cool Jun 11 04:43:57 heh Jun 11 04:44:08 i would think that java app will work with any OS Jun 11 04:44:08 zinge: yep. Jun 11 04:44:17 nebula, it's the idea Jun 11 04:44:17 I quite enjoyed the stability of connecting to streaming TV via wwitv.com through it on my Xbox when I used to mod the hell out of XBMC Jun 11 04:44:24 I think some kind of shoutcast thing would be nice Jun 11 04:44:35 Shoutcast as well, yeah. Jun 11 04:44:35 erm, actually... a daemon will need to be written for linux, right? Jun 11 04:44:37 nebula: if you yank apart com.palm.novacom.internal.NovacomDevice , that has most of the Novacom protocol (I think) Jun 11 04:44:37 just because I am bored and dont want to mess with the Pre thats going back, a list of random apps from linux that need to be on the Pre: Jun 11 04:44:48 it has all of it Jun 11 04:44:50 Amarok. Wolf = Awesome Jun 11 04:44:56 how awesome would be to dj live via shoutcast from your phone??? Jun 11 04:45:04 Very. Jun 11 04:45:07 w00t. Jun 11 04:45:13 dj live from the club Jun 11 04:45:16 Pidgin. LibPurble is already there. We need pidgin dammit! Jun 11 04:45:17 ahahah Jun 11 04:45:29 I thought pidgin was found? Jun 11 04:45:36 no Jun 11 04:45:37 lippurple != pidgin Jun 11 04:45:40 tell me when you get that working ultra. I'm gonna go for a few hours, but I can take a look at the touchstone thing. unless someone else is already doing that Jun 11 04:45:46 Yeah I knew libpurple was on there. Jun 11 04:45:55 xmpp/jabber were found Jun 11 04:45:58 No but libpurble in pidgin Jun 11 04:46:01 ahhh, that's right. Jun 11 04:46:01 IIRC Jun 11 04:46:08 ok, heading out for the night. back tomorrow from work. Jun 11 04:46:18 yes pidgin is one of many clients using libpurple Jun 11 04:46:34 plus with pidgin comes irc! Jun 11 04:46:37 zinge, no dice on lunaprop, only works for properties in db's in /var/preferences Jun 11 04:46:38 :O Jun 11 04:46:53 glxgears Jun 11 04:46:58 zinge: That would be cool, if you could. But it's not extremely important. I think I'm not worried about it now. Originally it seemed like when the phone went to sleep the SSH session timed out, but it turns out it was just sleeping and would work again given a few seconds. Jun 11 04:47:42 zinge: That said, there are probably better uses of your time. Jun 11 04:47:44 ultraBlack: You do realize that a USB connection was created right? Jun 11 04:47:51 thanks emkman; oh well. It also looked like it only works with com.palm apps, and nascar started with something else (although devmod starts with com.palm) Jun 11 04:48:29 pregame: Yeah I'm doing it the old fashioned way. (The way I learned of earlier this evening :P) Jun 11 04:48:52 yera i would do it that way but at work i can't connect to the wifi Jun 11 04:49:03 HAH! Have wikipedia pulled up using lynx over the evdo connection Jun 11 04:49:16 PreGame: did you post the app for USb somewhere? Jun 11 04:49:16 screw that graphical browser crap Jun 11 04:49:17 pregame: ah. Jun 11 04:49:18 OK Jun 11 04:49:21 ok well... its time to reflash the pre Jun 11 04:49:23 Phone acting weird again Jun 11 04:49:27 pregame: yeah i didn't know if you even posted it Jun 11 04:49:41 And by weird I mean its still on Jun 11 04:49:43 You could try mine + PuTTY... Jun 11 04:50:11 zinge: Mine was basically a new client and asedeno_home made one that just uses a tunneler so i stopped development on mine because it would require more work to maintain Jun 11 04:50:20 with asedeno_home all you need is the tunneler and putty Jun 11 04:50:23 ok Jun 11 04:50:26 mine was like a new putty client Jun 11 04:50:28 sorry, I've been missing things Jun 11 04:50:32 asendo, was yours posted? Jun 11 04:50:40 pregame: damn Jun 11 04:50:46 http://github.com/asedeno/novaproxy/ Jun 11 04:50:55 pregame: it would be a lot of work to make putty, i'm sure Jun 11 04:51:14 well not really because Palm already created the classes with novacom Jun 11 04:51:20 asendo_home: danke. dling now Jun 11 04:51:22 hm Jun 11 04:51:25 mine was done just needed some fine tweaking Jun 11 04:51:55 Hows it going guys Jun 11 04:52:00 heh, alarm clock rotates. Jun 11 04:52:09 dreadchicken: never noticed. Jun 11 04:52:13 yeah Jun 11 04:52:28 bpadalino, did you still want me to try your java app on xp? or should I just use asedeno_home's prog? Jun 11 04:52:50 If it showed the alarm app on the touchstone that would be awesome Jun 11 04:52:51 :-/ Jun 11 04:53:06 just leave the app open Jun 11 04:53:07 does asedeno's do usb ? Jun 11 04:53:09 thats what I do Jun 11 04:53:15 yes Jun 11 04:53:16 do anyone else's rollers scratch the mirror on the back of the pre? Jun 11 04:53:31 a little, yes Jun 11 04:53:44 then use his! Jun 11 04:53:45 patrick: i think i got some cleaning solution on mine Jun 11 04:53:48 mine sucks :( Jun 11 04:53:49 asedeno_home: nice work on novaproxy Jun 11 04:53:49 by mine sorta twists when the slider is closed as well Jun 11 04:53:56 Haven't noticed such scratches Jun 11 04:53:56 patrick: same here Jun 11 04:54:20 And I can't open mine one handed Jun 11 04:54:22 well they aren't scratches so much as rub marks. but this isn't the channel for that discussion. anyway Jun 11 04:54:22 Yeah, Patrick, mine twists a little Jun 11 04:54:45 night all, keep up the good work Jun 11 04:54:51 I'm gonna go eat and such. Thanks for the help with things everyone. I'll be back on in a couple hours. Jun 11 04:54:51 g'nite Jun 11 04:54:59 gnite ristopher Jun 11 04:55:05 zinge: didn't get it to show. oh well Jun 11 04:55:07 zinge: cya Jun 11 04:55:10 still? Jun 11 04:55:19 yeah i dunno what i'm doing wrong. i'll figure it out Jun 11 04:55:24 in 6 minutes the Pre will have been on for 3 and a half hours Jun 11 04:55:24 fine, fine. I'll wait till it works. Jun 11 04:55:34 ultraBlack: agreed, hw grips in #webos or #palm please :-) Jun 11 04:55:40 s/grips/gripes/ Jun 11 04:56:18 schematics on how the slider works are very welcome here :-) Jun 11 04:56:24 lol Jun 11 04:56:34 rwhitby: is ultra allowed to send me the line that I posted about in the wiki so I can see whats wrong with it? or is that under copyright/etc? Jun 11 04:56:36 lol Jun 11 04:56:39 Battery, I shall murder you Jun 11 04:56:48 how are you guys mounting the root file system? Jun 11 04:56:51 did I miss something>? Jun 11 04:57:04 zinge: is it's palm's code or yours? Jun 11 04:57:16 zinge: don't worry about it.. i'll figure it out Jun 11 04:57:21 rwhitby: palm's i believe Jun 11 04:57:21 'night all Jun 11 04:57:25 snake: http://predev.wikidot.com/backdoor Jun 11 04:57:29 hmm... palm's, I guess. I changed a word. Okay, I get it now. Thanks Jun 11 04:57:34 mount -o remount,rw / Jun 11 04:57:35 ah fancy Jun 11 04:57:35 ty Jun 11 04:57:42 'night summatusmentis Jun 11 04:57:52 zinge: eat good food. later buddy thanks for the help Jun 11 04:57:55 its already mounted read only Jun 11 04:58:04 k, cya. I'll be back later. Jun 11 04:58:13 mount -o ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 /mnt/Windows? Jun 11 04:58:21 :p Jun 11 04:59:02 well dang it now I have to try and run that from the Pre Jun 11 04:59:11 right after cat /dev/mem Jun 11 04:59:30 catting /dev/mem is always a good time Jun 11 04:59:37 yup Jun 11 04:59:54 although the last laptop I did it to didn't make cool noises when I did it Jun 11 04:59:55 catting for fun and profit! Jun 11 05:00:03 asedeno_home where did you post in the wiki your script? Jun 11 05:00:07 No, thats what larseny is for! Jun 11 05:00:23 just like piping your dos games into the soundblaster to pick out the audio bits Jun 11 05:00:30 that was the good ol days Jun 11 05:00:31 I added a note on the rooting page. Jun 11 05:01:30 asedeno_home: I added a link to your repo on the wiki front page Jun 11 05:01:50 that works too Jun 11 05:02:07 both are appropriate and good Jun 11 05:02:10 rwhitby: a link needs to also be included in the backdoor page Jun 11 05:02:54 PreGame: do you have wiki access yet ;-) Jun 11 05:03:07 yep Jun 11 05:03:28 why must we mount after editing data in the phone back to read only? Jun 11 05:03:34 is there something wrong with leaving it read/write? Jun 11 05:04:08 it's generally a better idea to leave it RO Jun 11 05:04:15 we're being as safe as possible with public recipes at the moment Jun 11 05:04:16 rwhitby, dkelson has done some good work on re-factoring our ssh install method. well done dkelson. Jun 11 05:04:18 PreGame: security reasons. Jun 11 05:04:25 dkelson: did you finish the ssh script? Jun 11 05:04:43 less chance of a corrupted file system too Jun 11 05:04:43 it'll be there when he's done. Jun 11 05:04:51 not that it happens, but better to be safe than sorry Jun 11 05:05:03 indeed Jun 11 05:05:05 dont you think we should put the pre specific hash codes on the wiki Jun 11 05:05:08 hehe nice cover giest Jun 11 05:05:10 dreadchicken, dkelson: looking forward to it. Jun 11 05:05:13 "not that it happened" Jun 11 05:05:36 edektor, what hash codes have you found? Jun 11 05:05:39 you guys wanna know the top reason palm > apple? Jun 11 05:05:50 ??? Jun 11 05:05:51 cause the phone is better? Jun 11 05:05:55 Apple is a cul? Jun 11 05:05:55 no Jun 11 05:05:58 cult* Jun 11 05:06:03 cause the software directors do IRC? Jun 11 05:06:08 cause I never have to start iTunes? Jun 11 05:06:27 Because palm has more easily bribed coders? Jun 11 05:06:27 because the palm devs have a sense of humor when commenting code and have coolness by making the developer app available by konami cheat Jun 11 05:06:41 True... Jun 11 05:06:44 sure, that is one of many reasons Jun 11 05:06:47 goodnight guys Jun 11 05:07:03 emkman: I didnt find any LarrySteeze did.. http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/184651-pre-specific-hash-codes.html I just thought they should be on the wiki Jun 11 05:07:36 edektor: do they break any carrier agreements? Jun 11 05:07:54 rwhitby hash codes have always been kosher Jun 11 05:07:59 cool Jun 11 05:08:07 you need your msl to do anything that might break the agreement Jun 11 05:08:10 and that is a might Jun 11 05:08:20 and you get your msl from the carrier anyway Jun 11 05:08:28 emkman: not that im aware of Jun 11 05:08:47 yeh its fine, all the forums have them Jun 11 05:08:57 edektor do you have write access to the wiki? Jun 11 05:09:04 sprint couldn't wait to give me my msl's on launch day. Jun 11 05:09:12 no how can I get it Jun 11 05:09:19 http://predev.wikidot.com/system:join Jun 11 05:09:28 just apply, i will approve you asasp Jun 11 05:09:41 they had to give it to me when I ported Jun 11 05:09:43 its not a secret Jun 11 05:09:58 probably 7/10 reps will give you it no problem Jun 11 05:10:34 i got 2 pre's and 2 msl, they gave me a third msl that i don't know what it is for, but in case one of them didn't work. Jun 11 05:11:10 haha Jun 11 05:11:11 just some extras Jun 11 05:11:14 just in case Jun 11 05:12:00 night, 7am with client. Jun 11 05:12:06 emkman: K i signed up Jun 11 05:12:10 is there something further that needs to be done with the novaproxy? Jun 11 05:12:27 no Jun 11 05:12:28 it shouldnt be too hard t o pull the msl witht the code in telephony-assistant Jun 11 05:12:46 there's a one-time key subsidy lock reps are supposed to use first. master subsidy lock in the event the otksl has already been used... Jun 11 05:13:07 mib_117axs, i image its easy, has to be calculated or compared somewhere Jun 11 05:13:36 edektor, did you use a diff name? Jun 11 05:13:42 i dont see you but i just approved 2 people Jun 11 05:13:57 no I used the same name Jun 11 05:14:03 one of the extras is probably a otksl Jun 11 05:14:22 hmm your application isnt showing Jun 11 05:14:35 did you just sign up for wikidot? Jun 11 05:14:42 you have to apply to join the predev wiki as well Jun 11 05:14:51 http://predev.wikidot.com/system:join Jun 11 05:16:00 it says "You can not apply. Jun 11 05:16:00 It seems you have already applied for membership. " Jun 11 05:16:24 you should have just typed in teh password Jun 11 05:17:03 PreGame its just the same when I am right on the approval page Jun 11 05:17:06 edektor your in Jun 11 05:17:23 k thanks man.. Ill post those up Jun 11 05:17:30 but yes, anyone here can PM me for the password. Jun 11 05:17:42 thanks edektor, im looking forward to seeing which ones i didnt know about Jun 11 05:23:47 welcome back dkirker Jun 11 05:23:59 hi rwhitby! Jun 11 05:24:23 hmmm Jun 11 05:24:38 there Jun 11 05:24:47 Man you Pre people are so lucky, you don't even know how cool it was when someone set a custom background on the iPhone for the first time. lol Jun 11 05:24:58 on the home screen, that is Jun 11 05:25:11 so folks, a little birdie at palm gave me a hint that all these modifications to the filesystem we are doing will possibly cause problems with OTA updates. Nothing that the doctor won't fix, but inconvenient for us. Jun 11 05:25:17 cyanidepoison: why would an apple user want to set a background? Jun 11 05:25:47 Bartman007: they tend to be artsy people and like pretty pictures? Jun 11 05:26:10 so we want to bind mount a loopback file for /opt, and work out how to be able to automatically remove our modifications before accepting an OTA update, and reinstall them afterwards Jun 11 05:26:35 I think we need to get the loopback thing tested and on the wiki before too many more people install ipkg's Jun 11 05:26:35 rwhitby: would it be enough to bind mount /usr/lib/ipkg as well? Jun 11 05:26:54 rwhitby: and maybe applications, it will fall back to the builtin ones then won't it? Jun 11 05:26:56 tmzt: we can make ipkg put the lists in /tmp/... Jun 11 05:27:05 people should be installing ipkgs ASSUMING this will break stuff later Jun 11 05:27:09 installed packages list as well? Jun 11 05:27:17 good thing our contacts are synced to the magic palm/google cloud Jun 11 05:27:42 rwhitby: just install everything to /opt if you're so worried about it Jun 11 05:27:54 tmzt: on other optware platforms which have a read-only /usr, we have a separate ipkg-opt which only reads and writes stuff under /opt/lib/ipkg ... Jun 11 05:28:19 yeah, what happened to the thing on zaurus that supported multiple roots? Jun 11 05:28:24 cyanidepoison: that's exactly what we are doing. the improvement is to make /opt a mount of a loopback file from /media/internal Jun 11 05:28:48 tmzt: I'm most concerned about the status file - mixing optware apps and palm apps in the one ipkg status file Jun 11 05:29:09 ah, ok. that makes sense. I thought you were like removing components from the system and copying them to /opt, then copying them back after an update Jun 11 05:29:11 does palm have any feed available? Jun 11 05:29:22 it would be great to isolate everything to media/internal so we could back it up Jun 11 05:29:32 tmzt: no, but from what I can tell in the code, both OTA updates and app store stuff will be ipkg installs Jun 11 05:29:36 oh, you mean the already installed apps Jun 11 05:29:38 has anyone figured out how to deploy software OTA? Jun 11 05:29:39 emkman: that's my proposal Jun 11 05:30:04 i just tried to load an ipkg from the browser and there was no application the browser could find to open this file type Jun 11 05:30:15 * BSchlinker has been monitoring this channel for hours Jun 11 05:30:19 emkman: just got the wiki updated http://predev.wikidot.com/pre-hash-codes Jun 11 05:31:13 on other optware platforms, we have a single rc.optware script which (when given the 'stop' argument) can stop all processes that are running from /opt, then unmount /opt, all ready to accept an OTA update. Jun 11 05:31:22 we must assume that OTA updates won't touch /media/internal Jun 11 05:31:52 asedeno_home Jun 11 05:31:52 so we need an ipkg-opt which will not collide with palm's ipkg. Jun 11 05:31:52 * Patrick_R_NBR expects to wake up tomorrow with a gui for root access, tethering, and an app that remotely controls my toaster Jun 11 05:31:53 are most the lvm partitions related to firmware then? Jun 11 05:31:58 eno: do we have one of those? Jun 11 05:32:11 asedeno_home: Your script seems to be causing echoing Jun 11 05:32:29 thanks edektor Jun 11 05:32:31 Did you turn off echoing in putty? Jun 11 05:32:36 I can't recall if there is any way to make two files act as one on linux Jun 11 05:32:43 for sure Jun 11 05:32:54 Patrick_R_NBR: files or filesystems? Jun 11 05:33:04 yes there is patrick Jun 11 05:33:08 files Jun 11 05:33:16 if there are on the same file system, ln file target Jun 11 05:33:19 can someone with a rooted Pre try installed http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/ipkg-opt_0.99.163-10_arm.ipk ? Jun 11 05:33:21 hardlinks. Jun 11 05:33:28 s/installed/installing/ Jun 11 05:33:32 PHP has clouded my ming... Jun 11 05:33:32 asedeno_home: Where at? I'm using teh same settings i was with ssh Jun 11 05:33:40 Instead of the browser for ipkg, you probably have to add something to the palm updates program Jun 11 05:33:40 how big is it rwhitby ? Jun 11 05:33:53 that should give you an /opt/bin/ipkg-opt command which will only modify stuff under /opt Jun 11 05:34:13 bpadalino: 73KB ipk size. Jun 11 05:34:27 As per the comments in the file. Jun 11 05:34:30 so now if i run ipkg-opt for installation now on ? Jun 11 05:34:51 it installed and configured Jun 11 05:34:55 Under the terminal settings, set all the line disciplines to "Force off" Jun 11 05:35:07 That's echo and local line editing. Both off. Jun 11 05:35:10 bpadalino: so now ipkg-opt will keep it's housekeeping files separate from palm's ipkg Jun 11 05:35:16 ah cool Jun 11 05:35:25 PreGame: i cant seem to get this novaproxy to work :-/ Jun 11 05:35:34 bpadalino: move your optware feed config from /etc/ipkg.conf to /opt/etc/ipkg.conf Jun 11 05:35:36 was anyone successful setting up a loopback mount of a file with a virtual filesystem? Jun 11 05:35:48 I've published a cleaner less invasive, less memory using SSH backdoor method onto the wiki. http://predev.wikidot.com/backdoor Jun 11 05:35:54 bpadalino: then you can't use ipkg by mistake to install an optware package Jun 11 05:35:58 because I think I did it Jun 11 05:36:30 tictac: where is it failing? Jun 11 05:36:32 rwhitby: so the optware.conf in /etc/ipkg, put it in /opt/etc/ipkg ? Jun 11 05:36:46 dkelson: we can't symlink busybox into /usr/local/bin? Jun 11 05:36:51 bpadalino: yes Jun 11 05:36:53 move it Jun 11 05:37:10 rwhitby, nope. It needs to be SUID root. Jun 11 05:37:20 done and done Jun 11 05:37:20 dkelson: gotcha Jun 11 05:37:23 holy crap I plugged in my dead Pre and vista detected an OMAP 34** or whatever it is... Jun 11 05:37:26 mount --bind the whole bin directory. heh Jun 11 05:37:33 oh wait that would not be good Jun 11 05:37:40 dkelson: can you follow this ipkg-opt stuff I'm doing with bpadalino and when we're finished work that into the dropbear installation step? Jun 11 05:37:59 tictac: Make sure you are in developer mode as well as novacom installed. Then if that doesnt work try and restart the .py script Jun 11 05:38:06 bpadalino: so now ipkg-opt installs stuff like before, but doesn't touch palm's ipkg database? Jun 11 05:38:19 rwhitby: what is something similar to .login in this open embedded > Jun 11 05:38:27 so i can add /opt/bin and /opt/sbin to my path Jun 11 05:38:30 bpadalino: /etc/profile maybe? Jun 11 05:38:36 the py script doesnt seem to be functioning properly on my windows machine. it just "flashes", but obviously i cant tell where it's stopping. Jun 11 05:38:37 rwhitby, I haven't been following IRC. What are you guys doing? Jun 11 05:38:57 dkelson: making an /opt/bin/ipkg-opt which does not touch palm's ipkg database files in /usr/lib Jun 11 05:39:00 run the .py script in command so you can see the errors Jun 11 05:39:07 sweet Jun 11 05:39:08 thanks Jun 11 05:39:08 and therefore should run with a ro /, but rw /opt Jun 11 05:39:21 and should be less hassle with OTA updates Jun 11 05:39:23 more than likely you are not in dev mode or you are not running the novacom service Jun 11 05:39:38 rwhitby, that's a good idea. Less invasive the better. Jun 11 05:39:50 nevermind. i had the wrong encoding on the file. doh Jun 11 05:39:52 So, has anyone tried getting Doctor to restore a modified webOS tarball? Jun 11 05:39:56 dkelson: add a loopback mount of /opt from a file in /media/internal, and we're good I think Jun 11 05:40:07 dkelson, I appreciate the comments on the instructions Jun 11 05:40:12 thanks for the contrib Jun 11 05:40:31 rwhitby: was making a loopback a problem? Jun 11 05:40:42 ShinAli: no-one's tried it yet. I don't have a Pre. Jun 11 05:40:43 emkman, thank you for your contribs. And you're welcome for mine. Jun 11 05:40:52 rwhitby: well i just did it Jun 11 05:41:12 cyanidepoison, i havent heard of anyone trying yet Jun 11 05:41:20 i would be suprised if it works straight up Jun 11 05:41:22 but go for it Jun 11 05:41:27 you could have the image file with a default set of apps and the ipkg already in it compressed. Would make for an easy setup Jun 11 05:41:30 I don't have a Pre, that's why I'm asking Jun 11 05:41:32 using a fresh doctor should restore any problems Jun 11 05:41:40 ok Jun 11 05:41:51 obviously precooked custom images are the ultimate holy grail Jun 11 05:41:52 that's how we work over in iPhone land (most of the time) Jun 11 05:41:53 joshua: indeed Jun 11 05:41:55 joshua: not legally possible. Jun 11 05:41:59 then any OTA can be customized and installed Jun 11 05:42:14 i mean the disk image, its only open source stuff and you mount it to /opt Jun 11 05:42:15 indeed Jun 11 05:42:22 Bartman007: joshua means a prebuilt /opt image Jun 11 05:42:32 oh, of course. heh. Jun 11 05:42:49 well look at how the installer stacks sprint.tar ontop of webos.tar Jun 11 05:42:54 no reason we couldnt do something similar Jun 11 05:42:56 an opt.tar Jun 11 05:42:58 with all the goodies Jun 11 05:43:12 Yes, I found the control file for that this morning Jun 11 05:43:23 I just thought itd be interesting to see if you could remove it Jun 11 05:43:23 emkman: if we distributed that as a patch against the installer, that would be fine. Jun 11 05:44:17 ShinAli: can you update http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository with the loopback instructions? Jun 11 05:44:26 dkelson: see /msg from me Jun 11 05:44:37 rwhitby: no prob Jun 11 05:44:51 rwhitby: by the way, there is a rootfs_open command that will remount rw or r using -w or -r respectively Jun 11 05:44:55 here's how we do it in iPhone world: you have the firmware on your computer ( basically the Doctor for you guys), you run a program that modifies the filesystem for you and fixes everything up for you to install the normal way Jun 11 05:45:05 bpadalino: nice find Jun 11 05:45:17 cyanidepoison: yeah, good plan. Jun 11 05:45:25 cyanidepoision, i have jb'ed many an iphone Jun 11 05:45:28 i agree its a good plan Jun 11 05:45:40 especially with the nice flasher palm gave us Jun 11 05:45:47 since you guys don't have to decrypt anything like we do ( :P ) it'll be easy Jun 11 05:45:57 ght guys i'm off to bed Jun 11 05:46:04 we don't have to decrypt anything yet ... who knows what those palm guys will do Jun 11 05:46:15 night Pregame Jun 11 05:46:29 pregame: Good night and good job! Jun 11 05:47:03 well Apple encrypted AND sigchecked everything from the start, so I'd say you'll be fine Jun 11 05:47:19 yes its alot harder to add that in after the fact Jun 11 05:47:29 Palm doesnt want to break the product for everyone in attempt to keep us out Jun 11 05:47:39 despit what we like to think we are a pretty insignificant group Jun 11 05:47:40 as long as we don't screw them, palm might even keep it the way it is ... Jun 11 05:47:48 i hope so Jun 11 05:47:51 everyone can get along Jun 11 05:47:54 I think palm saw the error of apple's ways Jun 11 05:47:59 especially if we push community approved upgrades to their apps :P Jun 11 05:48:12 eg, preferences for longer vibrations Jun 11 05:48:15 yeh i mean look at the whole open architecture they told Jun 11 05:48:17 bpadalino: and make it easy for them to incorporate the improvements Jun 11 05:48:18 wochose* Jun 11 05:48:23 rwhitby: yeah Jun 11 05:48:30 sure, we are fixing the user complaints for them Jun 11 05:48:39 but is that such a bad thing? Jun 11 05:48:48 nope Jun 11 05:48:52 i was talking with some coworkers, and i am still impressed they created the device and OS in 18 months Jun 11 05:48:54 that's quite a feat Jun 11 05:49:15 rwhitby: also need to look at /lib/modules/ loop to that image or another.. since there should be a few additional modules coming.. though maybe it is ok to keep those local and just rebuild after Jun 11 05:49:27 I think that the os still needs some polish Jun 11 05:49:46 another 2 months would have been perfect Jun 11 05:49:47 I like the way Apple does things, its more fun for us. Jun 11 05:49:52 I've begun hacking around the hidden Streaming Music app Jun 11 05:49:53 bpadalino, You can see one way they did it was by using existing Linux techniques (for example, DBUS for IPC, Upstart, pulse audio, etc) instead of reinventing their own (ala Android). Jun 11 05:50:03 ie. after a system update.. especially if they update the kernel.. which is likely Jun 11 05:50:15 rwhitby: thinking about the ipkg stuff, being able to store all of /opt in a file on the media is probably the best bet since updates to the OS won't affect media usually, right ? Jun 11 05:50:21 pfeifer: yeah, previously we've just hardcoded insmods to pull in new modules from /opt/lib/modules/.... Jun 11 05:50:29 bpadalino: that's my guess Jun 11 05:50:35 dkelson: yeah - they leveraged open source a lot Jun 11 05:50:37 and i like it Jun 11 05:50:40 that's why I'm pushing the loopback solution Jun 11 05:50:50 rwhitby: k. but the official way is via lib/modules//extras Jun 11 05:51:09 I am just epicly weird in my hating /opt Jun 11 05:51:11 pfeifer: ah, ok. mount only that. Jun 11 05:51:24 I store all my apps in a /app folder Jun 11 05:51:42 its a folder name. lol Jun 11 05:51:44 pfeifer: bind mount from /opt/lib/modules/ ? Jun 11 05:52:11 Patrick_R_NBR: there's 4 years of history in optware with modifying packages to install under /opt - we're not going to change it now :-) Jun 11 05:52:31 rwhitby: done Jun 11 05:52:32 I know, I know... Jun 11 05:52:35 well. once the bind is done from/opt.. we can just have a symlink from /lib/modules//extras to it Jun 11 05:52:44 shouldn't need to 2 binds on the same loop file Jun 11 05:52:51 and apparently my phone is talking to the the novacom service Jun 11 05:52:53 unless we want a sep loop Jun 11 05:53:05 although its not formatted correctly for some reason Jun 11 05:53:14 what's not formatted ? Jun 11 05:53:15 but i tried it twice and it works Jun 11 05:53:29 what i wrote on http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 11 05:53:34 ShinAli: once we get someone else to test your instructions, can we move them to the top of the page and make it the officially sanctioned way to do it? Jun 11 05:53:38 ah slick Jun 11 05:53:50 dkelson: can we do some upstart making to make the loopback mount happen on each boot? Jun 11 05:53:56 hmm I've tried setting the clock speed to 600MHz and it seems to work. Speeds up the graphics quite a bit. Problem is, battery life is probably gonna tank :/ Jun 11 05:54:02 rwhitby: it can certainly be done either way.. but the symlink would be easiet IMHO.. because we are already dependant on /opt being bound Jun 11 05:54:04 ShinAli: remount the rootfs; rootfs_open -w Jun 11 05:54:21 bpadalino: what for Jun 11 05:54:27 pfeifer: nod Jun 11 05:54:37 shinali, to replace your mount remount command Jun 11 05:54:40 there is a helper script Jun 11 05:54:45 forgive my ignorance, but is there any cpu powermanagement enabled on the bre right now? Jun 11 05:54:52 OH Jun 11 05:54:53 okay Jun 11 05:55:00 rootfs_open -r makes it ro again Jun 11 05:55:38 wow they have everything for us Jun 11 05:55:43 vi, rootfs_open... Jun 11 05:55:53 it's like thar jar was just giftwrapped Jun 11 05:55:56 actually those are probably for themselves Jun 11 05:55:58 it even has a copy of screen, a lot of cool stuff Jun 11 05:56:17 so our flow should be: open the rootfs, mkdir /opt, symlink extra kernel, add upstart script to do bind mount, close root. create loopback file, mount it, install ipkg-opt, profit. Jun 11 05:56:17 brikus: i'd like to actually think they care about us Jun 11 05:56:21 but I don't mind getting them as well! Jun 11 05:56:26 and try to make us bloom Jun 11 05:56:39 ShinAli: no doubt Jun 11 05:56:39 sorry I was AFK Jun 11 05:57:02 someone with a pre test out my stuff Jun 11 05:57:04 but then you lose all of the fun :( Jun 11 05:57:09 ShinAli: it's true that lots of talk from Palm mgmnt has been about helping the developer community Jun 11 05:57:27 i did it on mine just fine but i'd like to see if I'm not crazy or something Jun 11 05:57:34 is it correct that I cannot connect to my dropbear daemon on my pre using putty on windows? Jun 11 05:57:43 i cannot fine using ssh client in os x Jun 11 05:58:01 connect * Jun 11 05:58:03 rwhitby, upstart to do the loopback mount one time a boot is no problem. Jun 11 05:58:15 emkman, make sure your port is correct ? Jun 11 05:58:24 it is Jun 11 05:58:26 Patrick_R_NBR, No the CPU is locked to 500Mhz Jun 11 05:58:27 2222 Jun 11 05:58:28 emkman: try ssh -p 2222 youruser@pre-ip Jun 11 05:58:30 then i got nothin Jun 11 05:58:31 :( Jun 11 05:58:36 ? Jun 11 05:58:41 hmmm Jun 11 05:58:42 dkelson: they haven't given us an upstart event before OTA update or something have they? Jun 11 05:59:02 An app to change cpu speed from, lets sayy 400-600 when needed Jun 11 05:59:09 the clocking architecture of those OMAP's are crazy .. changing one frequency changes EVERYTHING else Jun 11 05:59:13 it's kind of nuts Jun 11 05:59:20 sometimes a faster CPU speed can give a slower memory bus Jun 11 05:59:25 rwhitby: does my instructions look okay? i never mess with filesystems and stuff so i'm not sure i'm doing anything horrible Jun 11 05:59:47 The new port documented in the wiki is 222. To avoid any potential collisions with all the webos stock ports (all but one are > 1024). Jun 11 05:59:57 rwhitby, I think maybe yes. :) Jun 11 06:00:11 ShinAli: yep, we just need to incorporate them into the stuff above it. Jun 11 06:00:20 aight Jun 11 06:00:28 dkelson: awesome if that's the case Jun 11 06:00:39 what is the problem with using port 22...? Jun 11 06:01:03 cyanidepoison: its an obvious port i guess? Jun 11 06:01:09 hmm Jun 11 06:01:14 i know dropbear is kinda minimal Jun 11 06:01:21 cyanidepoison: heh - that's historical too. optware uses 2222 by default so that it didn't collide with some vendors braindead dropbear installations Jun 11 06:01:38 cyanidepoison, we don't want to collide with the "real" SSH port that webos might start shipping. Also, there are many SSH brute force bots on the Internet that pound away on port 22. Jun 11 06:01:42 I'd actually like to see us put openssh in by default instead, so I can do agent forwarding. Jun 11 06:01:56 yeh Jun 11 06:01:56 oh nevermind i'm being dumb Jun 11 06:02:05 *shrug* we use port 22 on the iPhone Jun 11 06:02:07 dropbear is 228Kb Jun 11 06:02:08 there is no dropbear client for windows tho Jun 11 06:02:11 openssh would be amazing Jun 11 06:02:16 emkman: did that command help for mac? Jun 11 06:02:20 dropbear IS SSH Jun 11 06:02:23 emkman: PuTTY Jun 11 06:02:24 so any SSH client works. Jun 11 06:02:43 dkelson: yes, openssh is much bigger. Jun 11 06:02:43 yeah Jun 11 06:02:48 shinali, where do u want me to run that command? Jun 11 06:02:53 that is how i connect in os x Jun 11 06:02:55 works fine Jun 11 06:02:57 really part of the setup should build the rules in iptablea and only allow ssh from a netblock. would be easy to add. Jun 11 06:03:06 in windows, on puttty, i put in the ip and port and it does nto connect Jun 11 06:03:07 rather than from anywhere on that interface Jun 11 06:03:09 emkman: oh i thought you said it didn't work on your mac Jun 11 06:03:14 no Jun 11 06:03:15 rwhitby: I'm starting to get really redundant here but we use openssh on the iPhone too Jun 11 06:03:30 thats what i am trying to figure out Jun 11 06:03:33 s/iptablea/iptables Jun 11 06:03:36 why putty cant connect Jun 11 06:03:51 emkman: you also said the OS X ssh client cannot connect Jun 11 06:03:55 I mean, your device is NATed so often that security don't even matter after you change the password Jun 11 06:03:59 so there has to be something not common to the 2 Jun 11 06:04:05 ie. the network or the pre or such Jun 11 06:04:06 i thought i had corrected myself Jun 11 06:04:08 os x works fine Jun 11 06:04:13 putty on windows does not Jun 11 06:04:18 that is my current situation Jun 11 06:04:19 even better than filewall rules would be setting up ssh PSK auth Jun 11 06:04:31 brikus, i proposed that originally Jun 11 06:04:38 people didnt want to carry their keys around Jun 11 06:04:43 i would keep it on my pre Jun 11 06:04:46 personally Jun 11 06:04:52 Hey guys Jun 11 06:04:57 we HAVE to modify the firewall because by default it blocks pretty much everything inbound. Jun 11 06:05:00 unless it got stolen Jun 11 06:05:05 brikus: yeah, I'd like to see ssh keys by default Jun 11 06:05:10 Shoutcast support is built into the streamingmediaplayer app that's hidden Jun 11 06:05:11 eh, I already carry around me keys so its whatever Jun 11 06:05:22 YEH Jun 11 06:05:30 nice duvallg Jun 11 06:05:31 Go to... Jun 11 06:05:32 that is exciting Jun 11 06:05:53 key auth would be best.. be with users who know little about that.. it would be something to cause grief IMHO Jun 11 06:06:00 cyanidepoison: as long as the instructions we do can work either with dropbear or openssh I'll be happy :-) Jun 11 06:06:01 and putty with keys isn't as easy as openssh Jun 11 06:06:06 which is a breeze Jun 11 06:06:33 Linux can do automatic CPU scaling. The Pre CPU supports 600Mhz, 550Mhz, 500Mhz, 250Mhz, and 125Mhz. Jun 11 06:06:36 I think ssh with no root password (you have to sudo) and you can get root if you use keys. Jun 11 06:06:44 However, Palm locks it to 500Mhz. Jun 11 06:06:53 here: com.palm.app.streamingmusicplayer/tests/app/views/main/main-scene.html Jun 11 06:06:57 I have no idea what the heck dropbear is Jun 11 06:06:58 I enabled automatic scaling Jun 11 06:07:01 Look at the source there. Jun 11 06:07:15 dropbear is a SSH server that is very very lightweight and tiny. Jun 11 06:07:15 cyanidepoison: dropbear is a minimal ssh server Jun 11 06:07:18 oh snap? automatic scaling? Jun 11 06:07:18 cyanidepoison: related to a Koala, but has fangs. Jun 11 06:07:22 Jun 11 06:07:29 There ya go. Jun 11 06:07:36 the only thing I miss with dropbear is agent forwarding. Jun 11 06:07:46 other than that, it does everything else I need. Jun 11 06:08:01 rwhitby: dropbear can do agent forwarding. Jun 11 06:08:02 openssh is the way to go IMHO.. but dropbear is fine for basic use Jun 11 06:08:03 rwhitby, you'll be SSH out from your pre multiple hops? Jun 11 06:08:06 yeah... we've been using openssh on the iPhone from the beginning and no one complains about it being too slow Jun 11 06:08:13 is that already there or did you write that duvallg? Jun 11 06:08:16 dkelson: absolutely, I do so today with my Treo 650. Jun 11 06:08:21 It's there in a test directory Jun 11 06:08:21 or making your phone too slow Jun 11 06:08:23 cool Jun 11 06:08:25 no one complains about the single thready either ;) Jun 11 06:08:27 I didn't make it; I just found it. Jun 11 06:08:32 cool Jun 11 06:08:36 Patrick_R_NBR, yes indeed. I tried it out for awhile. Jun 11 06:08:40 pandora is all I need, but shoutcast support is nice Jun 11 06:08:45 Bartman007: you need the openssh client to get out - the dropbear server supports it but not the client Jun 11 06:08:53 rwhitby: oh, right. Jun 11 06:08:55 dkelson: and how was it? Jun 11 06:09:06 sup Jun 11 06:09:07 emkman: 17 tests of different media in that HTML file Jun 11 06:09:19 My CPU runs at 125Mhz all most all the time unless I'm touching the screen. Jun 11 06:09:22 dkelson: ssh client on the pre is a purchasing decision point for me Jun 11 06:09:23 any chance for windows media streams? Jun 11 06:09:30 i'd like to have sirius eventually Jun 11 06:09:35 with openssh you are going to get all the ssh features.. and no ifs or buts Jun 11 06:09:38 (as is delete and go to next message in email app) Jun 11 06:09:38 I found WMV/WMA codec on the filesystem the other day, Shin Jun 11 06:09:43 is there a way to root the pre with a linux box? Jun 11 06:09:53 However, it seemed more laggy. I think their is a small delay in jumping the CPU back up to higher speeds. Jun 11 06:09:53 I'm running talk.py and I'm getting "socket.error No connection could be made because the target machine actively refuesd it", anyone know what might casue that? Jun 11 06:09:54 WMV/WMAv9 Jun 11 06:09:54 duvallg: sweet Jun 11 06:09:57 sftp/scp would be nice Jun 11 06:10:04 and it's not like it is a space or processor issue... i have open ssh on uclibc boxes way less powerful than this Jun 11 06:10:11 rwhitby, you don't have one now? Jun 11 06:10:18 dkelson: nope, I'm in .au Jun 11 06:10:20 and it just runs Jun 11 06:10:30 dkelson: any noticable impact on battery life? because if there is, i might just mess with mine right now Jun 11 06:10:36 Also accepts M3Us Jun 11 06:10:44 also try updating dropbear when you have an active dropbear session Jun 11 06:10:45 rwhitby, is here an ipkg installable version of openssh-client? Jun 11 06:10:53 has anyone been able to root the pre with a linux box? Jun 11 06:10:53 openssh will keep the session up Jun 11 06:10:58 dkelson: ipkg install openssh Jun 11 06:11:05 so you don't drop during the update Jun 11 06:11:15 g0ow: nope, you need a driver to do com with the pre Jun 11 06:11:15 pfeifer: yes, there is that good point too. Jun 11 06:11:17 pfeifer, my Upstart dropbear event script will handle that OK. It will auto-restart dropbear on exit/death. Jun 11 06:11:21 g0ow: not yet Jun 11 06:11:32 cyanidepoison: i don't think so Jun 11 06:11:39 Patrick_R_NBR, I didn't run long enough to notice a difference in battery life. Jun 11 06:11:41 thats not good lol i dont have windows Jun 11 06:11:45 dkelson: can you make the script do both dropbear and openssh, depending on which is installed? Jun 11 06:11:52 dkelson: sure.. but you still get servered Jun 11 06:11:54 same here, g0ow Jun 11 06:12:12 brikus: what do you run? Jun 11 06:12:20 with openssh.. you keep your session and then can open a new session to reconnect with the update version and the drop out Jun 11 06:12:22 pfeifer: I'm happy if we do dropbear by default, but support ipkg install openssh to switch easily Jun 11 06:12:31 cyanidepoison: the java program does not communicate with any sort of drivers Jun 11 06:12:35 webos doctor i mean Jun 11 06:12:51 Sure. But Upstart will spawn a shell do the logic testing and the shell will stay running. Jun 11 06:12:55 I know it's outside the bounds of -internals, but I think I can have a Shoutcast app in testing soon. Hooray. Jun 11 06:13:01 g0ow: gentoo mostly at home, but I play with lots of other stuff too Jun 11 06:13:05 windows is a special case, it needs a daemon Jun 11 06:13:10 my eeepc has kubuntu on it Jun 11 06:13:25 duvallg: it wasn't exposed by palm, so it's on-topic Jun 11 06:13:41 Cool, thanks for the clarification. Jun 11 06:13:47 My C90S is currently running a LSF built custom distro Jun 11 06:13:48 im a debian man Jun 11 06:13:54 woot debian Jun 11 06:13:57 actually.. using gentoo to build arm code has been good and then just convert the bins to ipkg Jun 11 06:14:03 my server is debian Jun 11 06:14:17 i love it Jun 11 06:14:21 same Jun 11 06:14:29 i've ran it since i was 8 Jun 11 06:14:30 My main Linux machines run OpenWrt, OpenEmbedded and SlugOS. Jun 11 06:14:33 has anyone sshed in via the evdo wan IP? Jun 11 06:14:33 I like having newer packages for my desktop though Jun 11 06:14:39 that is not working for me either Jun 11 06:14:40 http://github.com/westbaer/irecovery/tree/master If someone wants to look into doing com with the pre with libUSB, theres an iPhone example Jun 11 06:14:43 emkman, i did Jun 11 06:14:51 for linux, that is Jun 11 06:15:02 interesting, bpadalino you have all the luck Jun 11 06:15:05 heh Jun 11 06:15:07 ty cyan Jun 11 06:15:13 did u have your wifi turned off? Jun 11 06:15:22 no, wifi is still on i think Jun 11 06:15:23 bpadalino: so do you have loopback mount and ipkg-opt all sorted now? Jun 11 06:15:28 i figure it should work on either since my iptables entry isnt tied to a specific interface Jun 11 06:15:31 rwhitby: i didn't do that part yet Jun 11 06:15:39 emkman, I'm ssh'd in right now over EVDO IP Jun 11 06:15:44 can you check ShinAli's loopback instructions? Jun 11 06:15:47 bpadalino: ^ Jun 11 06:15:54 rwhitby, sure, link again? sorry Jun 11 06:16:03 http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository - at the bottom Jun 11 06:16:09 if EVDO and wifi are both up the return route might get confused though Jun 11 06:16:17 once they're checked, we can integrate them into the recipe at the top Jun 11 06:16:22 there is no route if you are local Jun 11 06:16:27 ok it just worked Jun 11 06:16:31 it was just really slow i guess Jun 11 06:16:31 brikus, you can't get to 173.blah without going over the air Jun 11 06:16:33 yeah Jun 11 06:16:35 evdo is super slow Jun 11 06:16:36 i can throw windows7 on for now i guess Jun 11 06:16:37 to connect Jun 11 06:16:46 what do you do about the screen powering off? Jun 11 06:16:48 i wanna get into this bad boy Jun 11 06:17:01 im getting a constant loop of powerd message now Jun 11 06:17:03 system up Jun 11 06:17:05 system down Jun 11 06:17:08 over and over Jun 11 06:17:16 the bottom should have a cd /media/internal first i think Jun 11 06:17:27 or of=/media/internal/disk-image Jun 11 06:17:44 g0ow: try to find the appropriate replacement numbers in constants.h on that github project for the Pre Jun 11 06:17:50 you can probably find it with lsusb -v Jun 11 06:17:52 shall we call the file optware.ext3 or something? Jun 11 06:17:57 bpadalino: ^ Jun 11 06:18:15 it may come out base10 so just convert to hex Jun 11 06:18:24 sure Jun 11 06:18:32 you need to put a direction to make the mountpoint .. Jun 11 06:18:54 cyan: gotcha Jun 11 06:18:56 funny.. they put ext4 utils on but no kernel support.. then they have nfs in the kernel.. but no userspace Jun 11 06:19:09 and there is cifs in the kernel Jun 11 06:19:13 as well as fuse Jun 11 06:19:25 nfs might not need userspace Jun 11 06:19:25 bpadalino: can you edit the wiki as you go? Jun 11 06:19:36 even portmap for the kernel nfsroot I think Jun 11 06:20:02 i've actually never gotten the l/p info .. Jun 11 06:20:03 :( Jun 11 06:20:08 but i am terrible with wiki's Jun 11 06:20:10 tmzt: depends on which version Jun 11 06:20:13 and they have 4 Jun 11 06:20:17 4 needs userspace Jun 11 06:20:18 otherwise, yes - i can mount the file Jun 11 06:20:22 After 10 min of annoyance: To stop the bcast msg from root when ssh'd over EVo, move /usr/sbin/wall to something else...like .wall Jun 11 06:20:39 if it was nfs v2 via bb.. sure Jun 11 06:20:57 bpadalino: emkman can you get on the wiki quickly Jun 11 06:21:04 finding the vendor ID and product ID for the Pre would be needed too Jun 11 06:21:05 gotch Jun 11 06:21:05 a Jun 11 06:21:34 definitely Jun 11 06:21:47 g0ow: pastebin the output of lsusb -v -v and I'll find it myself Jun 11 06:22:28 for a build env.. need glibc-2.5 and gcc-4.2 (not higher yet).. in case anyone else is making one Jun 11 06:22:33 thanks IllOreilly Jun 11 06:22:53 symbols in /lib/libgcc_s.so if anyone needs to reference Jun 11 06:22:58 binutils-2.18 Jun 11 06:23:04 bpadalino i pmed your the info to join Jun 11 06:23:07 yeah i see Jun 11 06:23:11 its all wysiwyg, easy to edit Jun 11 06:23:12 pfeifer: for the optware stuff, we're just using cs08q1armel from codesourcery. Jun 11 06:23:13 thanks Jun 11 06:23:27 pfeifer: is that compatible with what you're seeing? Jun 11 06:23:40 is there an lsusb ipkg ? Jun 11 06:23:47 bpadalino: usbutils Jun 11 06:23:50 gotcha Jun 11 06:23:58 rwhitby: i just have a gentoo image running in qemu right now. probably is.. need to check. Jun 11 06:24:42 lsusb -v -v : http://pastie.textmate.org/508132 Jun 11 06:24:48 just a quick check, what should appear when I run novaproxy Jun 11 06:24:49 http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Optware/AddAPackageToOptware if anyone wants a pre-constructed build environment Jun 11 06:25:27 IllOreilly, not finding /usr/sbin/wall Jun 11 06:25:33 bpadalino: no bluetooth in that listing? Jun 11 06:25:55 hang, lemme look Jun 11 06:26:13 hmm - wonder how wifi and bt is connected to the omap ... Jun 11 06:26:14 i don't think it's a usb device ? Jun 11 06:26:36 sorry ,its /usr/bin/wall Jun 11 06:26:38 chron: any ideas? are you working on that device-tree? ;-) Jun 11 06:27:04 thats what powerd is using to bcast. I moved mine to /usr/bin/.wall to silence it Jun 11 06:28:07 yeh i found Jun 11 06:28:09 thanks Jun 11 06:28:30 rwhitby: i just see info on cs2009u1 and it is based on 4.3.3.. i don't see 2008 listed any longer. Jun 11 06:28:57 pfeifer: let me see where we download it from Jun 11 06:29:30 pfeifer: http://trac.nslu2-linux.org/optware/browser/trunk/platforms/toolchain-cs08q1armel.mk Jun 11 06:29:51 anyone have lsusb output on a HOST with the pre plugged in? Jun 11 06:30:09 gcc 4.2.3 on glibc 2.5, BINUTILS_VERSION = 2.19.1, LIBSTDC++_VERSION=6.0.9 Jun 11 06:30:49 cyanidepoison, hold on I'll do it Jun 11 06:31:11 Bus 002 Device 003: ID 0830:8004 Palm, Inc. Jun 11 06:31:31 wait, i missed something...usbutils comes with lsusb, right? Jun 11 06:31:33 got the rest? Jun 11 06:31:36 like -v -v Jun 11 06:31:51 I need the product id and such Jun 11 06:32:01 "This toolchain is gcc 4.2.3 on glibc 2.5" Jun 11 06:32:07 rwhitby: ^^^ should be fine Jun 11 06:32:20 pfeifer: sweet Jun 11 06:32:58 cyanidepoison: you cooking something up for us? Jun 11 06:33:15 just trying to do com over USB Jun 11 06:33:22 with the BL and such Jun 11 06:34:03 like you can connect to iBoot on an iPhone and change background color of the screen, jump to a memory location, etc Jun 11 06:35:30 did you check out the java libs they use for novacom ? Jun 11 06:35:32 http://pastebin.com/d69c8544f <--- lsusb -v -v on host Jun 11 06:36:50 that novacom stuff is pretty neat - you can write memory directly, then start execution of the device from there Jun 11 06:36:51 cyanidepoison: in which mode? Jun 11 06:36:55 very slick Jun 11 06:37:09 anyone on linux w/ jdk, webos doctor and have a pre? Jun 11 06:37:24 bpadalino: you can do that on the iPhone to Jun 11 06:37:25 well...since we can install PERL on this thing, comm over bluetooth should be easy that way Jun 11 06:37:26 too* Jun 11 06:37:30 very slick Jun 11 06:37:36 git://github.com/westbaer/irecovery.git Jun 11 06:37:40 someone do a git pull of that Jun 11 06:38:22 and at line 50, change 0x5AC to 0x0830 Jun 11 06:38:29 is someone going to post the novacom stuff to the wiki? Jun 11 06:38:41 i might've written a novacom terminal that'll work in linux? Jun 11 06:39:06 and at devid change it to 0x8004 Jun 11 06:39:07 shinali, that doesn't use the palm jar? Jun 11 06:39:14 haha Jun 11 06:39:23 Guess what, every? Jun 11 06:39:25 everyone Jun 11 06:39:29 I'm streaming Shoutcast right now Jun 11 06:39:38 ShinAli: I am. Been working with bpadalino trying to get something to work Jun 11 06:39:40 it does but it doesn't need any drivers or anything, just the java classes Jun 11 06:40:03 interesting Jun 11 06:40:13 I prefer C Jun 11 06:40:33 that's great. Jun 11 06:40:37 ok so I take it no one is going to pull that and compile it Jun 11 06:41:19 i will do it Jun 11 06:41:22 i need to install git first Jun 11 06:41:30 ShinAli: does it need a driver or anything? Jun 11 06:41:34 you can just download a tarball from github Jun 11 06:41:41 it does that for you, which is pretty cool Jun 11 06:42:06 no, just the webos doctor jar Jun 11 06:42:08 oh nice Jun 11 06:42:30 actually i could provide a stripped down jar that just has the classes Jun 11 06:42:32 how does it attach to the usb device? Jun 11 06:42:36 cyanide: git pull git://github.com/westbaer/irecovery.git Jun 11 06:42:36 fatal: Not a git repository Jun 11 06:42:38 but that does it sound legal Jun 11 06:42:47 doesn't Jun 11 06:42:47 brikus: clone, not pull Jun 11 06:42:52 ahh Jun 11 06:43:04 am used to svn/cvs Jun 11 06:43:06 tmzt: it's straight up communication with the usb device Jun 11 06:43:07 ls Jun 11 06:43:08 downloading, please hold Jun 11 06:43:09 doh Jun 11 06:43:28 I shouldn't have used "pull" there lol Jun 11 06:43:31 ok, so I am making changes in contants.h? Jun 11 06:43:34 the java code for webos doctor doesn't have ANYTHING that communicates with some driver Jun 11 06:43:48 ShinAli: nope, can't redistribute any palm code, source or binary Jun 11 06:43:52 brikus: no, line 50 of iRecovery.c Jun 11 06:43:53 which is why I ask how it works Jun 11 06:43:56 ShinAli: are we allowed to decompile the classes and write programs using them legally? or is that a grey area Jun 11 06:43:56 yeah didn't think so Jun 11 06:44:16 wireless89: i'm only using the classes as libraries Jun 11 06:44:22 cyanidepoison: iRecovery.c:22:17: error: usb.h: No such file or directory - using make macosx Jun 11 06:44:31 ShinAli: ah ok Jun 11 06:44:33 You need libusb Jun 11 06:44:44 wireless89: decompiling them would most likely violate their terms, but ShinaAli can use them without decompiling them Jun 11 06:44:47 libusb-dev or whatever the equivalent on osx is Jun 11 06:44:51 sigh Jun 11 06:44:54 ok, 50: if(dev->descriptor.idVendor == 0x5AC && dev->descriptor.idProduct == devid) { Jun 11 06:44:57 ekman: true true Jun 11 06:45:10 emkman: depends whether you clicked through the palm software license or not Jun 11 06:45:12 any more source changes? Jun 11 06:45:18 change 0x5A to 0x0830 Jun 11 06:45:30 devid to 0x8004 Jun 11 06:45:30 so it is ok to use the jar files as long as we do not decompile them yes? Jun 11 06:45:38 cyanidepoison: your assuming it's the same as iPhone? Jun 11 06:45:39 you may fall foul of dmca if you live in the US though Jun 11 06:46:11 yes whitby, click thru EULA in reality have almost 0 legal weight Jun 11 06:46:11 ShinAli: the Doctor only talks to novacomd over a TCP socket; it doesn't have any of the USB code (i.e. it is completely cross-platform) Jun 11 06:46:16 tmzt: changing the device IDs and trying is as good as I can do without having one of these Jun 11 06:46:22 but reversing code can get u in trouble in the US regardless of the EULA Jun 11 06:46:26 emkman: we've opened the doctor.jar without clicking anyway Jun 11 06:46:31 lsusb is showing me: Bus 001 Device 015: ID 0830:8002 Palm, Inc. Jun 11 06:46:45 but I think it was 8004 before I put it in dev mode Jun 11 06:46:52 indeed, just saying that in reality its a moot point, that is superceded by overagressive laws Jun 11 06:46:53 what mode is that in? Jun 11 06:47:12 bpadalino: did you have anyone run that java code on linux? Jun 11 06:47:16 my phone is in dev mode Jun 11 06:47:31 it's possible to document protocols through analyzing the usb or network traffic? Jun 11 06:47:33 change it to whatever ID lsusb says Jun 11 06:47:36 brikus is trying to do it using eclipse .. Jun 11 06:47:42 since there is some weird classpath error Jun 11 06:47:48 i couldn't figure out what it was trying to do Jun 11 06:47:49 tmzt: worked for samba Jun 11 06:48:01 ShinAli: if you do, it wouldn't work because you don't have the novacom driver for linux, as far as I know Jun 11 06:48:14 ok, making now Jun 11 06:48:15 ShinAli: java code to do what? I don't think java has a native usb library on any platform Jun 11 06:48:23 there was problem with your Makefile, btw Jun 11 06:48:29 just woke up and thought of something, is /var rw and do we know if it will be persistent? /var/opt? Jun 11 06:48:30 make linux Jun 11 06:48:30 gcc iRecovery.c -o iRecovery -lusb -lreadline Jun 11 06:48:30 gcc: iRecovery.c: No such file or directory Jun 11 06:48:30 make: *** [linux] Error 1 Jun 11 06:48:45 but I mved irecovery.c to iRecovery.c Jun 11 06:48:51 yeah Jun 11 06:48:53 dreadchicken, Like the Tivo? Jun 11 06:48:57 someone changed the filename Jun 11 06:49:09 alright, so ./iRecovery -s? Jun 11 06:49:09 AgentHH: geist said otherwise Jun 11 06:49:15 as root Jun 11 06:49:39 dkelson, i assume, would avoid loopbacking. Jun 11 06:49:45 ShinAli: well, we know it _exists_, but we don't have it :( Jun 11 06:49:48 dreadchicken: I would say anything outside of /media/internal is fair game for palm to change with an OTA update Jun 11 06:50:02 bpadalino, thanks for the loop device write up. didnt we want to to put the config in /opt/etc/ipkg.conf? Jun 11 06:50:11 no dice Jun 11 06:50:13 or does it not matter if we are fine with blowing it away Jun 11 06:50:14 quite possibly Jun 11 06:50:15 Error -16 when setting configuration Jun 11 06:50:26 AgentHH: no, he said linux or macos didn't need any drivers, but windows needed a service Jun 11 06:50:32 emkman: yes /opt/etc/ipkg.conf please Jun 11 06:50:33 yeah Jun 11 06:50:40 * AgentHH is confused now :D Jun 11 06:50:52 ok Jun 11 06:50:56 windows needs an in-kenrel driver, because there's not an easy way to from user space access a usb device directly Jun 11 06:51:02 whereas you can do that in linux/macosx Jun 11 06:51:13 novacomd is still required in all three places Jun 11 06:51:17 i will rearrange the order of the instructions and change it to /opt Jun 11 06:51:35 emkman: only reason to put it in /opt/etc/optware.conf is if we think there might be multiple third-party app feeds that want to use the /opt infrastructure ... Jun 11 06:51:44 brikus: do you have permissions? Jun 11 06:51:56 was running as root Jun 11 06:51:56 optware.conf eh? Jun 11 06:52:05 i was more asking about /opt/etc vs /etc Jun 11 06:52:17 emkman: definitely using ipkg-opt and /opt/etc/... Jun 11 06:52:22 ok Jun 11 06:52:27 we want to stay away from palm's ipkg database Jun 11 06:52:29 brikus: huh Jun 11 06:52:30 * geist fades back into the shadows Jun 11 06:52:37 haha neat trick Jun 11 06:52:40 did you get all of your numbers right? Jun 11 06:52:45 in line 50? Jun 11 06:52:53 and you were root? Jun 11 06:52:55 i will have you check it out in a minute rwhitby Jun 11 06:53:07 emkman: from supporting over 20 vendor platforms with optware, we've learnt how to stay out of the way :-) Jun 11 06:53:10 if(dev->descriptor.idVendor == 0x0830 && dev->descriptor.idProduct == 0x8002) { Jun 11 06:53:22 lsusb: Jun 11 06:53:22 Bus 001 Device 015: ID 0830:8002 Palm, Inc. Jun 11 06:53:30 brikus: on OSX? Jun 11 06:53:30 http://pastie.textmate.org/508142 Jun 11 06:53:35 on linux Jun 11 06:53:39 it's up there if anyone wants to try Jun 11 06:53:48 brikus: okay, can you strace? Jun 11 06:54:20 yeah that's problem a good direction because iRecovery -r just segfaulted Jun 11 06:55:16 Got PLS up and running for Digitally Imported (Shoutcast) Jun 11 06:55:30 Mojo is so sweet. Jun 11 06:56:28 /var/log/download.log seems to have the the 1.0.2 download info, which would suggest /var survived...but lost+found is dated 06-Jun-09 at 20:30 which would suggest otherwise. Jun 11 06:57:02 dreadchicken: can you pastebin that download.log? Jun 11 06:58:32 incoming Jun 11 07:00:04 My Pre went to sleep for awhile. When it woke up, the EVDO Ip address changed. Even the first ocet is different. Jun 11 07:00:11 strace of iRecovery in linux: http://pastebin.com/m4a1823ed Jun 11 07:00:11 rwhitby, http://pastebin.ca/1456286 just the top, rootfs_open -r invoked a reboot. Jun 11 07:00:38 but that looks like the 1.0.2 update to me Jun 11 07:01:07 http://www.op9.net/images/palmpre/shoutcast_in_dev.png Jun 11 07:01:17 "device or resource busy" Jun 11 07:01:30 no, the problems start before that Jun 11 07:01:40 funny message in /var/log/fsck.log Jun 11 07:01:43 / has gone 3444 days without being checked, check forced. Jun 11 07:01:49 ioctl(3, USBDEVFS_IOCTL, 0x7fff1ef91e70) = -1 ENOTTY (Inappropriate ioctl for device)   Jun 11 07:02:27 yep Jun 11 07:02:31 hm Jun 11 07:03:21 unfortunately strace doesn't decode the usb ioctls very well Jun 11 07:03:22 duvallg: are you modifying an existing application or did you make a new one? Jun 11 07:03:34 but it looks like it's on the wrong interface Jun 11 07:03:51 night Jun 11 07:03:56 night bpadalino Jun 11 07:04:19 ShinAli: Modifying currently; planning to completely redo it. Jun 11 07:04:34 Now that I know what's going on here, I know where to go with it. ;) Jun 11 07:04:46 Night all Jun 11 07:06:01 dreadchicken: thx Jun 11 07:06:03 brikus: those earlier messages were about other USB devices Jun 11 07:06:14 see how the paths are changing? Jun 11 07:06:19 night dkelson Jun 11 07:07:21 dreadchicken: that log makes me thing that /var is disposable, since you wouldn't want to keep your update ipks on the rootfs forever. Jun 11 07:07:29 (after they've been unpacked) Jun 11 07:08:05 correct, but it happens for the pre device too Jun 11 07:08:29 which makes me think something else is wrong Jun 11 07:08:34 if it happens on all of them Jun 11 07:08:57 has anyone got lsusb -v -v from the bootloader mode yet? Jun 11 07:09:18 opt was only created because of the ipkg install of dropbear, right? Jun 11 07:11:36 this isn't my area of expertise, judging by the credits for that code Jun 11 07:11:44 I only fixed a little bug one lol Jun 11 07:11:51 there's never anything good in lost+found :( Jun 11 07:12:01 I guess we can just wait for chronic in the morning Jun 11 07:12:12 aubilenon: there should only be if the fs is corrupted Jun 11 07:12:28 once* Jun 11 07:12:53 ShinAli: /opt is where all 1700+ optware packages install themselves Jun 11 07:12:54 where you trying in the bootloader x key mode? Jun 11 07:13:17 rwhitby: isn't anything else modified when you install anymore packages? Jun 11 07:13:35 ShinAli: the whole idea of optware is not to modify anything outside of /opt Jun 11 07:14:05 even symlinks? Jun 11 07:14:09 rwhitby: right, sorry bout the dumb question. never heard of optware 'til now Jun 11 07:14:14 it's designed to work where / and /etc and /usr are read-only, and only /opt and /var and /tmp are writeable Jun 11 07:14:32 ShinAli: it's big in the embedded router and NAS box open source communities Jun 11 07:15:12 ShinAli: big enough that QNAP and Synology send me free USD$1K NAS boxes whenever they release a new architecture, to make sure we get optware working on them. Jun 11 07:15:27 (and eno too) Jun 11 07:15:56 i see my non-core apps in var, one of which (weather) was installed before the update iirc. i'm thinking it lives, but can't be sure. anyone have a fresh pre with 1.0.1? Jun 11 07:16:12 dang, that sounds useful Jun 11 07:16:35 well, its going to be soon anyway Jun 11 07:16:40 ok, I'm going to bed Jun 11 07:16:41 goodnight Jun 11 07:16:54 dreadchicken: I think you're right that parts of /var persist Jun 11 07:17:23 it's 200mb free as well, just feels a bit cleaner than looping Jun 11 07:18:01 I think looping is cleaner, since it doesn't use the space that palm thinks is big enough for their official and appstore apps Jun 11 07:18:32 im about to go to bed, but if anyone wants a spare usb cable for their pre, these are less than a dollar each: Jun 11 07:18:33 http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030307&p_id=5457&seq=1&format=2 Jun 11 07:19:11 of course one of the uses of lvm in general is to be able to resize partitions/filesystems Jun 11 07:19:38 i've always thought of looping like adding swap files, works fine, but kinda kludgy. personal preference me thinks. Jun 11 07:20:29 tmzt: but little birdies from palm advised to stay away from lvm if you want OTA updates to work Jun 11 07:21:57 well, they advised to stay away from ipkg installs and filesystem mods in general, which strengthened the argument for using a loopback in /media/internal Jun 11 07:25:26 i think i'm going to go the /var/opt + ipkg-optware route, we'll know definitively next update....back to bed, dang /var option woke me up. Jun 11 07:25:36 Hm, what is com.palm.app.mojave? I don't see that in the primary list of apps? Jun 11 07:25:44 yeah, I was responding to what rwhitby said about the available space for applications, maybe the split could be changed in future version Jun 11 07:25:57 It's referenced in /usr/palm/command-resource-handlers.json Jun 11 07:26:21 why is the loop method a problem? Jun 11 07:26:42 it's not, just another option. Jun 11 07:26:43 (Which, by the way, is a pretty interesting file.) Jun 11 07:26:54 tty://? Jun 11 07:27:18 tmzt: me? It's mojave:// Jun 11 07:27:43 dreadchicken: the other reason to use the loopback is then you can't soft-brick your device by too many ipkg install emacs22's ... Jun 11 07:27:53 I mean is there a list of urls in there? Jun 11 07:27:58 we don't know what will happen if /var fills ... Jun 11 07:28:24 tmzt: protocols links, yeah Jun 11 07:28:34 tmzt: look at the bottom, under "commands" Jun 11 07:29:01 jeffwheeler: is tty:// one of them? Jun 11 07:29:12 tmzt: yep. Jun 11 07:29:20 Wait, no. Jun 11 07:29:24 I'm sorry, I was confused. Jun 11 07:29:30 I was thinking tel for some reason Jun 11 07:29:38 so it's only in novacomd? Jun 11 07:29:51 what is txd anyway? anyone know? Jun 11 07:29:52 I'm not sure. :-/ Jun 11 07:30:05 one of the processes in ps aux from yesterday Jun 11 07:30:13 transmit data somehow Jun 11 07:30:20 I'm still trying to figure out mojave Jun 11 07:30:54 It's only mentioned in that one file, within /usr/palm. Jun 11 07:31:07 Or, /usr/, from the looks of it. Jun 11 07:31:43 rdxd I mean Jun 11 07:31:56 jeffwheeler: what file? Jun 11 07:32:13 tmzt: /usr/palm/command-resource-handlers.json Jun 11 07:32:35 yeah, no other file? Jun 11 07:33:42 what's the context? Jun 11 07:34:25 tmzt: it's in the protocol handlers; it's the mojave: protocol, and references com.palm.app.mojave Jun 11 07:34:49 is that java? Jun 11 07:35:19 I've never heard of that in that context . . . I guess it could be. Jun 11 07:35:55 Google doesn't exactly help with the search, either. Jun 11 07:35:55 what is com.palm.app.mojave? Jun 11 07:36:34 It's a reference to some application, but it doesn't seem to exist in with the rest of all the applications. Jun 11 07:36:45 (Which are all in /usr/palm/applications/) Jun 11 07:37:38 yeah the mojave link doesn't do anything when I click on it Jun 11 07:37:58 Link? Jun 11 07:38:01 I didn't guess the protocol formats for most of them Jun 11 07:38:21 oh I just made a dummy webpage with foo Jun 11 07:38:26 The other ones are pretty obvious, when looking at their associated apps. Jun 11 07:38:32 sure Jun 11 07:38:33 they work Jun 11 07:38:35 Oh, I was trying to figure out how to do that without a page. Jun 11 07:38:45 though I didn't guess the right format for a contact Jun 11 07:38:49 hmm, nothing exciting since this afternoon it looks like? Jun 11 07:38:51 only tried once Jun 11 07:38:59 Oh, I didn't try to use 'em. Jun 11 07:40:10 I'm really curious now. :P Jun 11 07:40:28 chrisa: no, just trying to work out how to stay out of the way of OTA updates .. Jun 11 07:40:45 I'm a bit curious if you guys manage to break OTA updates Jun 11 07:41:38 chrisa: you're from palm, right? someone in your org (pm me if you want to know who) said that if we start installing ipkg's by hand, OTA updates will fail. Jun 11 07:41:57 It might, I just don't personally know Jun 11 07:42:05 chrisa: there are ways... Jun 11 07:42:29 ykyyip: you would know more about how the OTAs are applied than I would Jun 11 07:43:19 heh - that's 5 confirmed palm staff here now :-) Jun 11 07:43:40 any of you guys want op privs ;-) Jun 11 07:43:56 (sorry, guys and gals) Jun 11 07:44:17 ops seem unnecessary. I'm just here to watch Jun 11 07:44:34 we hope to keep it unnecessary too ... Jun 11 07:44:45 you and about a hundred others....i need to grab some popcorn Jun 11 07:46:04 rwhitby, active work on ipkg-optware so we can get out of ipkg's way? Jun 11 07:46:13 dreadchicken: yep Jun 11 07:46:31 using ipkg-opt instead of palm's ipkg binary Jun 11 07:46:38 using a loopback mount Jun 11 07:46:55 having an upstart event (hopefully) that lets us kill and unmount everything before an OTA happens Jun 11 07:47:29 aw, tel: urls can't have letters in them Jun 11 07:47:43 my tel:1800usaloan url stopped at 1800 :D Jun 11 07:48:34 it sure takes mojave urls a long time to not do anything Jun 11 08:01:05 eta till nes emulator ;) Jun 11 08:01:33 Pretty far off. No one seems to have looked into the framebuffer yet Jun 11 08:02:07 chit brb learning how to program Jun 11 08:02:29 plus looking up framebuffer on bing Jun 11 08:02:42 the graphics server process/web process or whatever would have that open and exclusive use until we know the protocol/method to access it? Jun 11 08:03:32 obviously we can use the low-level fbdev, but not without stopping that process I think Jun 11 08:06:02 I've seen directfb lurking somewhere Jun 11 08:06:22 libraries? Jun 11 08:06:28 I think so Jun 11 08:06:52 do you think that might be what NPWindow encapsulates? Jun 11 08:06:58 * AgentHH has no idea :P Jun 11 08:10:39 there is a whole folder with directfb in it Jun 11 08:11:05 rootfs->usr->lib->directfb-1.10 Jun 11 08:11:56 nice find Jun 11 08:12:14 some other files in rootfs->usr->lib->ipkg->info Jun 11 08:12:25 That's just going to be package metadata Jun 11 08:12:55 strings or ldd on the main binaries use directfb? Jun 11 08:15:07 there is a wrapper script in a bin file called directfb-csource Jun 11 08:15:16 bin folder* Jun 11 08:16:07 what exactly are we looking for in terms of the directfb? Jun 11 08:18:54 what main programs on the pre use it Jun 11 08:19:07 Where do the main binaries live? Jun 11 08:19:10 ah ok Jun 11 08:19:25 rootfs\usr\bin Jun 11 08:19:27 from what i see Jun 11 08:19:43 dfbinfo, dfbplayer etc etc all wrappers i think Jun 11 08:22:13 but not of the luna code? Jun 11 08:22:25 Hmm, LunaSysMgr seems to just use /dev/fb0 directly Jun 11 08:22:55 can we strace that? Jun 11 08:23:04 I don't see why not Jun 11 08:23:26 if it's just a single framebuffer that's mmap'd I can't see how it's fully accelerated Jun 11 08:52:00 anybody know why the mibbit irc page is down? Jun 11 08:52:55 hello Jun 11 08:53:08 i have a question Jun 11 08:53:34 does the pre have usb host? Jun 11 08:54:15 any here? Jun 11 08:54:53 asdf1q324: through the musb port? Jun 11 08:55:26 ye Jun 11 08:55:38 no idea Jun 11 08:55:44 would be nice Jun 11 08:55:52 I guess the omap3410 might Jun 11 08:55:59 the cpu could do it Jun 11 08:56:04 hehe Jun 11 08:56:43 maybe some linux hackers will do that one day ;) Jun 11 08:56:52 if the hardware supports that Jun 11 08:58:13 tmzt: is the optware strace working well? Jun 11 08:58:24 rwhitby: don't know Jun 11 09:07:32 ...are there still people here? Jun 11 09:08:15 yeah, for now Jun 11 09:08:33 okay, just wondering Jun 11 09:17:03 I like the sudo solution that greg963 posted on the precentral thread. Jun 11 09:21:36 these crazy customers Jun 11 10:46:19 its not tha tsimple Jun 11 10:46:31 the endpoints are going to be different, the protocol, etc. Jun 11 11:17:40 Good morning! Jun 11 11:34:38 morning LarrySteeze Jun 11 11:34:54 hey guys Jun 11 11:35:02 has anyone looked at the thethering scripts for android? Jun 11 11:35:10 i suspect they would apply here as well Jun 11 11:35:23 but without a reliable network connection here i cant get to my phone to try them Jun 11 11:35:24 no, but i did install perl for no apparent reason Jun 11 11:35:54 I haven't seen any install emacs22 yet ... Jun 11 11:36:23 you can log into your phone via EVo too once you sshd it Jun 11 11:36:49 just visit a site that reads your ip back to you, and shh in Jun 11 11:36:51 i have no wifi network here, and evdo is unreliable lol Jun 11 11:36:55 :( Jun 11 11:37:03 im in a basement of a big cement building Jun 11 11:37:31 wow they rolled android update yesterday and added video recording Jun 11 11:37:49 my buddy was so excited Jun 11 11:37:52 lol Jun 11 11:37:59 with youtube upload Jun 11 11:38:26 oh didnt know that Jun 11 11:39:07 its been floating around for a while through less official chans Jun 11 11:39:25 * blau-mikeDG is documenting all his web os "hacks" so far Jun 11 11:39:59 did anyone make any progress with adding new global search providers like yahoo back in? Jun 11 11:40:02 where are you doc'ing them blau? Jun 11 11:40:06 i gave some tips i thought might help Jun 11 11:40:10 google docs for now Jun 11 11:46:14 hmm Jun 11 11:47:57 alright, I'll bbl. Have tethering functional by then and i'll bring cookies and punch for everyone Jun 11 11:51:26 :) Jun 11 12:01:55 whats new today, are you able to control directv satellites yet. the goose is on the lake. Jun 11 12:09:12 wow lots of users already Jun 11 12:14:11 hi Jun 11 12:15:27 Anyone have any info on ADHOC for wifi? Jun 11 12:18:58 or a way on windows to acess the phone via usb Jun 11 12:20:28 how do i get my pre's ip adress and how do i telnet on vista, telnet seems to not work on vista Jun 11 12:20:55 the first hit on google for 'vista telnet' tells you how to get telnet on vista. Jun 11 12:21:25 click on the wifi connection and it should tell you the ip Jun 11 12:21:47 but seriously if you can figure out how to get telnet on vista, you might not want to mess with the phone Jun 11 12:21:54 i already had to restore mine using the doctor tool Jun 11 12:23:36 there should be a disclaimer so that people don't go screwing up their phones Jun 11 12:23:55 that's assumed Jun 11 12:24:00 if not, you deserve to get bricked Jun 11 12:24:04 shouldn't be falz Jun 11 12:24:16 cause folks like dynamorac are gonna find the the site and assume the process is solid Jun 11 12:24:18 and it's not yet Jun 11 12:24:44 in fact its constantly changing Jun 11 12:25:06 it hasn't even been 48 hours since that .jar, so yea, constantly changing Jun 11 12:25:12 took me a while to realise the wiki changed when i was trying to figure out my issues Jun 11 12:25:18 "where the hell did I get this line from Jun 11 12:25:24 " Jun 11 12:25:36 vlaurenz: the doctor can fix anything we've done so far Jun 11 12:25:42 I'm of the opinion that if you don't fully understand EVERY SINGLE line of some script you're running, you shouldn't do it Jun 11 12:25:47 (and it's very likely we won't be doing anything the doctor can't fix) Jun 11 12:25:49 if there's a disclaimer, it should include something like that. Jun 11 12:25:54 however, what the hell good is a disclaimer? Jun 11 12:26:22 it's just a warning, is all Jun 11 12:26:30 well, there was mkfs on there. I don't think you'd want to reformat. Jun 11 12:26:34 or repartition, etc Jun 11 12:27:06 yep, and none of the instructions tell people to do that Jun 11 12:27:28 my 2 cents, is all Jun 11 12:27:55 vlaurenz: yep, fair enough, and I'll probably add a general disclaimer on the front page of the wiki Jun 11 12:28:00 someone like dynamorac should probably not be messing around in there at this point Jun 11 12:28:16 make it a template (if that wiki software supports it) and {{include}} it on every page Jun 11 12:28:51 i'm sure there are going to be at least a handful of pre's that followed the original instructions with keeping telnet open Jun 11 12:28:59 and those pre's will stay like that for who knows how long Jun 11 12:29:09 until 1.0.3 comes out Jun 11 12:29:27 * vlaurenz shrug Jun 11 12:29:43 * vlaurenz goes to starbucks and nmaps everyone's pres Jun 11 12:29:46 or until someone nmap's sprint's ip range for open telnet ports Jun 11 12:30:00 they'll stay like that until the next OTA update doesn't work, and they have to use the doctor to fix it. Jun 11 12:30:03 or an open wifi hotspot :) Jun 11 12:30:05 caveat emptor Jun 11 12:30:31 so in a forum, "we've been informed by Palm that our modifications to the rootfs are likely to cause issues with OTA updates" Jun 11 12:30:45 who from sprint contacted who, and how? some developer on their blog? sprint post in a forum? Jun 11 12:31:21 boo :( Jun 11 12:32:39 I dont really care that they said that, I'm just curious who from sprint is representing sprint Jun 11 12:33:10 not from sprint, from palm. Jun 11 12:33:17 either way. who and how? Jun 11 12:33:21 and they contacted me Jun 11 12:33:25 email? Jun 11 12:33:29 IRC Jun 11 12:33:31 ah Jun 11 12:33:39 there are at least 5 palm employees in this channel right now Jun 11 12:33:45 good times. Jun 11 12:33:46 * vlaurenz hides Jun 11 12:33:49 including the senior director or core OS software. Jun 11 12:33:54 s/or/of/ Jun 11 12:33:55 that's good actually. Jun 11 12:33:56 i wonder what would break it .. the extra files ? i saw some stuff which checked the md5sums Jun 11 12:34:11 and if there were extra files, it would say "error" Jun 11 12:34:33 they'll have to decide to impliment a method of requiring binaries to be signed in some way (a la JunOS) or just not care that much I guess. Jun 11 12:34:35 I expect it will be the fact that we started messing with the ipkg database in /usr/lib/ipkg - we're gonna stop that soon. Jun 11 12:34:55 or md5sum everything on phone during boot, but that will make the boot time far longer than it is already Jun 11 12:35:02 plus you could just edit the md5sum file Jun 11 12:35:02 bpadalino: it would say error, and your only recourse would be the doctor. Jun 11 12:35:21 although it could fetch it remotely. whatever, doesn't really matter. Jun 11 12:36:08 rwhitby, or modify the checker to silently ignore the extra files ? Jun 11 12:36:25 bpadalino: that won't last past the next update Jun 11 12:36:33 better to just get out of the way as we plan to do Jun 11 12:37:08 true Jun 11 12:38:12 bpadalino: speaking of which, did the loopback and ipkg-opt work as expected? Jun 11 12:38:29 i just checked the loopback stuff Jun 11 12:38:35 i didn't get to copying everything from opt into the file Jun 11 12:38:37 and then remounting Jun 11 12:38:46 but the loopback mounting worked Jun 11 12:38:50 so i suspect everything should be ok ? Jun 11 12:39:39 ok, we just need to update the recipe to put all that together. Jun 11 12:40:25 ah, we need dkelson's upstart script to mount it on boot Jun 11 12:40:41 that's a good idea Jun 11 12:40:53 so, without modifying existing apps, has anyone gotten anything to display on screen yet? generic "hello world" ? Jun 11 12:41:02 falz, i can draw a box Jun 11 12:41:27 how do you launch it? cli? Jun 11 12:41:29 hi wireless89 Jun 11 12:41:37 howdy rwhitby Jun 11 12:41:47 yeah - i just draw to the screen using fbdraw i think is what it was called Jun 11 12:41:57 aye. Jun 11 12:42:06 whats the latest? Jun 11 12:42:15 so is that in the overlay on the screen, and it goes away when pixels move over it? Jun 11 12:42:25 wireless89: just working out the best way to persist past an OTA update Jun 11 12:42:37 true Jun 11 12:42:43 not even sure it's an overlay - just makes the buffer that value .. Jun 11 12:42:46 mmm fbdraw :D Jun 11 12:42:52 i saw flickering, so i think it just made the 1 buffer and not both ? Jun 11 12:43:38 rwhitby: will palm push a whole system update each time ota though? Jun 11 12:44:15 it seems kind of expensive, especially for coutries like Aus that don't have great data plans Jun 11 12:44:38 wireless89: dunno, but they advised us that mods to the filesystem (especially ipkg installs) will break the ota update Jun 11 12:44:48 ah ok Jun 11 12:44:57 they should be able to just push individual ipks Jun 11 12:45:09 yeah Jun 11 12:45:14 thats what i thought Jun 11 12:45:57 im afraid i don't know much linux so i probably can't help in any major way other than moral support :P Jun 11 12:46:11 about linux* Jun 11 12:48:01 there are sqlite palm extensions .. i wonder what they are Jun 11 12:48:04 other than 'hack to hack', what are peoples goals? I just want an ssh client on the pre, as an app. Jun 11 12:48:32 obviously many will want to tether, which sprint would be concerned about Jun 11 12:48:35 my goals are to have webOS in a state where it can replace my Treo650 by the time the Pre reaches Australia Jun 11 12:48:42 i wanna be able to modify the existing apps to suit my needs Jun 11 12:48:46 and get real sdk access Jun 11 12:48:46 should be doable rwhitby Jun 11 12:49:06 rwhitby: is the emulator app shitty? Jun 11 12:49:13 I have no pre-pre (see what I did there) palm apps Jun 11 12:49:27 blau, you can do the first - but the second probably won't happen with just the pre webos images Jun 11 12:49:27 falz: dunno, I have no Pre (being in .au) Jun 11 12:49:40 rwithby: you're a brave man still carrying a 650 in today's fickle fashion-concious worlc. i salute you! Jun 11 12:49:45 yeah :( Jun 11 12:49:59 mib_pl93uo: I actually have two - the main one and a spare. Jun 11 12:50:01 blau, but feel free to modify or create your own apps already! Jun 11 12:50:10 blau, you can get the "rough cuts" book from oreilly .. Jun 11 12:50:12 rwhitby: spoken like a true 650 owner Jun 11 12:50:14 and it discusses a lot of the mojo framework Jun 11 12:50:19 i got the rough cuts book already Jun 11 12:50:19 oh, I also want the IM client to genericly support a jabber server that I specify Jun 11 12:50:24 the spare is needed for when it breaks Jun 11 12:50:26 since there is no other phone in the universe that can handle high volume mailing lists like Chatter on a Treo650 Jun 11 12:50:27 read what exists of it already too Jun 11 12:50:30 all code should already be there already since google talk is jabber Jun 11 12:50:30 up to chap 8 i think Jun 11 12:50:31 or maybe 7 Jun 11 12:50:37 just need an option to specify the server/port Jun 11 12:50:38 i think i got to the cloud portion Jun 11 12:50:47 blau then get to making your application :) Jun 11 12:51:16 at work now and no wifi and evdo reception is awful Jun 11 12:51:31 so im out of commission unless i figure out how to ssh over usb Jun 11 12:51:38 for windows ? Jun 11 12:51:48 yeah Jun 11 12:51:50 hahaha. my 650 is gathering dust on the shelf now, but every now and then i still play with it. I'm amazed at how much faster it is than the Centro Jun 11 12:52:03 ah Jun 11 12:52:14 mib_pl93uo: you can send it my way if you like Jun 11 12:52:20 we were trying to make a java app that would do novaterm using the .jar supplied byt he doctor Jun 11 12:52:26 not sure how well that worked out Jun 11 12:52:26 bbl Jun 11 12:52:47 that's how I got my second one. a guy in England had one with a broken antenna, and he sent it to me for free as appreciation for some open source projects I ran Jun 11 12:53:40 Wow. He sounds way more generous than me :P Jun 11 12:53:44 rwhitby: which projects? Jun 11 12:54:14 msw: nslu2-linux.org, nas-central.org, optware, openmoko, openembedded, openwrt Jun 11 12:54:33 the latter ones I only contribute to. Jun 11 12:55:37 the first project raised the donations paid for the server on which the OpenEmbedded git server runs (the webOS rootfs is built using OpenEmbedded) Jun 11 12:55:38 ooh, it does list 'jabber' genericly in some IM stuff Jun 11 12:57:42 falz: it also has pictures for yahoo and msn messenger Jun 11 12:57:53 but the latter i havent found any code pertaining to it actually having a client Jun 11 12:58:01 yea Jun 11 12:58:09 actually the jabber stuff I just saw was only related to a contact field Jun 11 12:58:12 it's an impressive list rwhitby. i couldn't part with my 650 though purely for sentimental reasons. it really is a kick-ass device, even if it weighs a fricking ton Jun 11 12:58:21 wireless89: it has libpurple, doesn't it? Jun 11 12:58:47 mib_pl93uo: do you have a Pre? how would you compare the keyboard to the 650? Jun 11 12:58:49 WyrM: yes, it's there Jun 11 12:59:12 Nup, I'm in Oz like you. eagerly awaiting the GSM Pre Jun 11 12:59:27 falz, wireless89: then it probably supports msn/yahoo from libpurple somehow :) Jun 11 12:59:39 rwhitby: much smaller than the 650 Jun 11 12:59:45 well ill check it now Jun 11 12:59:54 I went from 650 -> Mogul -> Pre Jun 11 13:00:07 WyrM: yea, I dont care about msn/yahoo, I want generic jabber, which I know it supports because it does gtalk Jun 11 13:00:20 Im up to about 40 wpm on the pre without looking at the kb Jun 11 13:00:31 so adding/enabling that should be trivial for palm to do cleanly. just probably don't want to because the preferences screen would have to have about 8 things Jun 11 13:01:46 Snake: is it weird having such a thin surface underneath the keyboard? does it still feel treo-y? Jun 11 13:02:11 yeah the thing keybaord is annoying Jun 11 13:02:17 i want a thicker battery so bad now Jun 11 13:02:18 for 2 reasons Jun 11 13:03:12 mib_pl93uo: I wouldnt say weird.. but different Jun 11 13:03:19 the one 1350mAh battery should be ok Jun 11 13:03:34 and no it feels closer to the centro actually, and you kind of have to type on it the same way Jun 11 13:03:37 i wonder if they can make 1500mAh battery in the same size as the orginal for pre Jun 11 13:03:43 i want 2600+ Jun 11 13:03:44 like on my g1 Jun 11 13:03:49 I've heard conflicting reports on what technology the battery is it. what is it, and what's the proper way to extend its life? Jun 11 13:03:50 (tips of fingers) Jun 11 13:03:58 but then i have to give up touchscreen Jun 11 13:04:07 falz: The offical manual says to keep it topped up Jun 11 13:04:10 i don't like G1 Jun 11 13:04:13 its li-ion Jun 11 13:04:28 Snake: ok, as in dont bother (or shouldn't) drain it unless you have no choice Jun 11 13:04:59 falz: yeah thats what the manual says.. I have a habit of power cycling my devices, but meh what do I know Jun 11 13:05:03 :) Jun 11 13:05:17 thanks for the info. once my car charger arrives ill throw it on that whenever Im driving Jun 11 13:05:39 i got one at spritn store Jun 11 13:05:48 havent used it yet Jun 11 13:05:55 I got the $0.80 one from monoprice Jun 11 13:05:57 touchstone i mean Jun 11 13:06:12 lately since yesterday I get day and a half from orginal pre battery under my normal use Jun 11 13:06:17 falz: did it work Jun 11 13:06:17 which aint so bad Jun 11 13:06:21 err you didnt egt it yet Jun 11 13:06:24 blau-mikeDG: it arrives tomorrow Jun 11 13:06:26 en0x: same here, after I turned of aim Jun 11 13:06:27 off* Jun 11 13:06:31 AIM was raping the battery Jun 11 13:06:42 blau-mikeDG: but it says 1amp outoput max, so I don't see why not. apparently it doesnt work on some apple crap, but that's probably apple being apple. Jun 11 13:06:46 I don't use chat on it yet no need for Jun 11 13:06:55 i would rather see irc client than gmail client Jun 11 13:06:59 Same Jun 11 13:07:02 s/gmail/gtalk Jun 11 13:07:09 I had IM and wireless on all day yesterday (7am-10pm) and the battery lasted Jun 11 13:07:10 falz: i tried using my apple power adapter thing and plugging the pre usb cable into it and it didnt work :( Jun 11 13:07:12 I keep my wifi on in my house too, its supposed to help with battery life Jun 11 13:07:18 blau-mikeDG: no shit? Jun 11 13:07:39 blau-mikeDG: did the palm not say anything, as if it wasn't even plugged in? Jun 11 13:07:40 well it had the same specs Jun 11 13:07:43 Snake: i have wifi on at work coz i work in basemant so no good signal Jun 11 13:07:56 bpadalino: /etc/event.d/start_update looks interesting Jun 11 13:07:58 nope didnt seem to be getting any power or anything to make it thin it was plugged in Jun 11 13:08:04 weird. Jun 11 13:08:08 yeah shrug Jun 11 13:08:09 falz: it doesnt work with my "generic" usb ac adapter either Jun 11 13:08:17 Same thing as blau-mikeDG Jun 11 13:08:19 ok, then it may not work with this monoprice one. Jun 11 13:08:19 ive heard of similar reports with some car adaptors Jun 11 13:08:20 bpadalino: looks like we can use that to stop optware and unmount before an OTA update Jun 11 13:08:23 just seems like its not pluggedin Jun 11 13:08:24 i'll find out tomorrow. it was only $1. Jun 11 13:08:37 so it must have to establish some type of data connection Jun 11 13:08:52 either sensing a pc or there's something in the palm charger that reports itsself as something Jun 11 13:09:19 falz: I think its actually a voltage difference Jun 11 13:09:21 rwhitby: so is there a way to set up some sort of listener to see when an OTA is coming and prevent it till we set up the device back to stock or something? Jun 11 13:09:34 Snake: well, the pre will charge (slower) when plugged into my workstation, which is linux Jun 11 13:09:44 and most of those chargers support up to 1A now Jun 11 13:09:45 ..slower? for real?? Jun 11 13:09:47 wireless89: that file seems to be the key to something like that Jun 11 13:09:49 weird Jun 11 13:10:00 rwhitby: that would be good news Jun 11 13:10:04 yea, USB officially gives 500ma, while the charger is 1000ma (1A) Jun 11 13:10:46 wireless89: but we need to work out how to reapply stuff after the OTA update has finished Jun 11 13:10:53 well im off to florida for a week and a half Jun 11 13:11:02 and since I dont have tether.. grumble.. ill talk to you guys on the 22nd! Jun 11 13:11:05 pz Jun 11 13:11:37 seeya Snake Jun 11 13:12:32 wireless89: there seems to be a runlevel 'U' as well which is referenced in /etc/event.d/update - dunno whether 'U' means 'update' yet Jun 11 13:12:41 rwhitby: well if some things are just modifications, could we use those diff file type patches? could first diff the files from the OTA to what we currently have, and if that part hasn't changed, reapply the changes we had. for other apps though i don't know what you would do Jun 11 13:13:37 wireless89: at the moment I'm only considering third-party packages installed in /opt - haven't thought about patches to palm code yet Jun 11 13:13:49 rwhitby: ah ok Jun 11 13:14:06 maybe we just run quilt on the device to apply the patches :-) Jun 11 13:14:22 quilt pop -a ; update ; quilt push -a Jun 11 13:14:43 haha i don't know what that does xD Jun 11 13:15:22 http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/ Jun 11 13:15:35 all ARM compiled packages Jun 11 13:15:36 wireless89: http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_books/linux_kernel/kernel_configuration/apas02.html Jun 11 13:15:46 all of the ones I have tried seem to work Jun 11 13:15:50 ok do did anyone took a loot at the apps from app catalogs? Jun 11 13:15:58 Irix: not just ARM, but the specific binutils, glibc, and gcc versions to match the Pre Jun 11 13:16:06 are they protected somehow? or is plain JS,html,css? Jun 11 13:16:29 plain js, html, css Jun 11 13:16:37 but tehre are natively compiled apps as well Jun 11 13:16:55 rwhitby: did you take a look at etc/event.d/uploadd? it talks about the update tool starting Jun 11 13:17:03 oh so if somebody buys an app from app catalog you can copy it over to your device and use it Jun 11 13:17:46 you can basically do that on anything Jun 11 13:17:48 someone else will have to answer that. Ive only looked at the filesystem in the image, I'm not touching my phone for the forseeable future Jun 11 13:17:50 dont worry about it Jun 11 13:18:18 wireless89: interesting Jun 11 13:18:18 blau-mikeDG: yeah but I havent heard anything about android Jun 11 13:18:21 but, as soon as that (piracy) becomes common, palm will have to react, so generally don't do that Jun 11 13:18:45 rwhitby: these scripts all seem to stop on the software update tool starting Jun 11 13:18:50 falz: i'm just curious thats all i'm not thinking about playing with my pre yet Jun 11 13:18:53 need to find that interrupt somewhere Jun 11 13:18:56 wireless89: /etc/event.d/networking has a commented out "start of stopped post_update" Jun 11 13:19:21 en0x: android is just as easy Jun 11 13:19:22 their protection is a joke Jun 11 13:19:36 rwhitby: hmm that is interesting Jun 11 13:19:39 wireless89: yeah, most have "stop on started start_update" Jun 11 13:19:40 protection is a different directory Jun 11 13:19:46 that you can just cp the files out of Jun 11 13:19:51 and put it on any phone Jun 11 13:19:55 wireless89: that's how we would stop optware stuff Jun 11 13:20:16 rwhitby: true Jun 11 13:20:32 how do i install ipkg-opt? i want to backout my ipkg-palm installs to avoid conflicts. Jun 11 13:20:37 blau-mikeDG: lol Jun 11 13:20:45 oh, morning folks. Jun 11 13:20:50 dreadchicken: wget the ipkg-opt file from the feed Jun 11 13:21:04 then untar it, then untar the data.tar.gz into /opt Jun 11 13:21:05 rwhitby: in that networking file it mentions start on stopped usbctrl, so we need to find what stops usbctrl Jun 11 13:21:27 dreadchicken: (as opposed to using ipkg to install it, which would then touch the palm ipkg database in /usr/lib) Jun 11 13:22:18 rwhitby, /nod Jun 11 13:22:39 rwhitby: haha ok so that file then mentions start on stopped hostname Jun 11 13:23:09 rwhitby: which then mentions the updater, i swear this is a circle here :P Jun 11 13:23:35 dreadchicken: just like the manual bootstrap section of http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Optware/Slugosbe, but using cs08q1armel feed instead Jun 11 13:24:24 never used optware until yesterday or any small linux for that matter. Jun 11 13:24:47 is ipkg-opt on the wiki yet? Jun 11 13:24:49 dreadchicken: if you can update as you go that would be appreciated Jun 11 13:24:58 update http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository that is Jun 11 13:25:11 mmf: nope, looking for someone to doco as they do it Jun 11 13:25:18 of course. i will do it for the loopback, but i'm going to go /var/opt personally. Jun 11 13:25:28 dreadchicken: thx muchly Jun 11 13:25:40 instructions to back out of the previous ipkg repository install would be nice too Jun 11 13:26:02 mmf: ipkg remove dropbear should do it Jun 11 13:26:12 i assume it's just ipkg del/uninstall/remove or some such. Jun 11 13:26:14 or that Jun 11 13:26:15 and remove /etc/ipkg.conf Jun 11 13:26:19 right Jun 11 13:26:26 and remove /etc/ipkg/optware.con Jun 11 13:26:29 conf Jun 11 13:26:34 shouldnt kill the sshd session while backing out, should it? Jun 11 13:26:43 mmf: probably will, being dropbear Jun 11 13:26:49 if it was openssh it wouldn't Jun 11 13:27:02 best to start telnetd and use that Jun 11 13:27:12 yes Jun 11 13:28:03 werd. I've been using linux for 10 years. why do i feel lost and afraid with this pre? Jun 11 13:28:23 you haven't diversified your linux distro choice enough? Jun 11 13:28:46 wireless89: yeah, it's maze of twisty little passages, all alike ... Jun 11 13:29:03 it feels pretty familiar to me. like that thing from jurassic park, "wait, this is unix...i know unix." Jun 11 13:29:16 rwhitby: well i did find that it all starts from the banner file which starts on runlevel 2 Jun 11 13:29:22 mmf: since my main Linux boxes all run openembedded, openwrt and slugos, I feel right at home with the pre rootfs :-) Jun 11 13:29:23 but i dont know what that means Jun 11 13:29:39 what runlevels mean? Jun 11 13:30:03 falz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runlevel Jun 11 13:30:15 I know what they mean, I was wondering if that's what his question was Jun 11 13:30:40 falz: yeah I didn't know what it meant :) Jun 11 13:30:45 falz: oh, sorry. we're trying to work out the sequence of the upstart scripts in /etc/event.d Jun 11 13:31:21 i have to admit, my first time to see native upstart. Jun 11 13:31:25 where are the runlevels set? Jun 11 13:31:45 dreadchicken: same here Jun 11 13:31:59 we should add the Pre runlevels to that wikipedia page :-) Jun 11 13:32:10 wireless89: usually /etc/inittab Jun 11 13:32:14 but I dont know if thats ont he pre or not Jun 11 13:33:05 OH Jun 11 13:33:21 in init.d i found a file called call_updater is this what we want? Jun 11 13:33:26 hey Sargun Jun 11 13:34:00 it says it launches PmUpdater to install a software update Jun 11 13:34:32 yeah, that's what initiates the update (they've even allowed for updating ipkg atomically - nice) Jun 11 13:34:54 wireless89: we need something earlier than that Jun 11 13:34:59 yeah i just realised that Jun 11 13:35:28 i suppose a hacky way around it would be to just hook into that file and run your own processes first, then call the updater Jun 11 13:35:52 call your script call_updater and just copy all that other code to call_updater2 or something Jun 11 13:36:45 wireless89: there should be a way to drop a completely separate script in /etc/event.d, rather than patching existing palm files Jun 11 13:37:06 otherwise you fail if they try to change call_updated in an OTA Jun 11 13:37:12 oh my, just had a thought...where is the gps data? cron + wget + gps data. Jun 11 13:37:24 at most one palm file should be patched with one line to call the homebrew startup script Jun 11 13:37:30 or if possible, none Jun 11 13:37:40 falz: that can be done with a new file in /etc/event.d Jun 11 13:38:00 you just need to choose the right trigger Jun 11 13:39:23 whoops bad internet connection Jun 11 13:39:30 im working on making messaging push new cards Jun 11 13:39:31 whoops Jun 11 13:39:50 bpadalino|work: make any progress? Jun 11 13:39:59 nebula, not particularly Jun 11 13:40:00 :( Jun 11 13:40:09 d'oh Jun 11 13:40:14 yeah Jun 11 13:40:26 hey atleast we've got dropbear to mess around with it ;) Jun 11 13:40:29 so the more I think about it, the more I'm liking my quilt idea for patches to palmos source files Jun 11 13:40:48 rwhitby, quilt ? Jun 11 13:40:56 rwhitby: has there been talk of how to handle the diffs? Jun 11 13:41:07 bpadalino: http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_books/linux_kernel/kernel_configuration/apas02.html Jun 11 13:41:08 quick question to unix people, what does -e mean Jun 11 13:41:15 exists Jun 11 13:41:19 ah Jun 11 13:41:24 nebula: I just thought of 'quilt pop -a ; update ; quilt push -a' Jun 11 13:41:29 well thats how they check if there is an update to install Jun 11 13:41:46 has anyone examined the 68mb 1.0.2 update? Jun 11 13:41:54 if the folder /var/lib/software/updating exists, run the updater Jun 11 13:41:56 rwhitby, neat Jun 11 13:42:01 nebula: no, has someone got it? Jun 11 13:42:26 i would think we can find out how to get it by running tcpdump after a restore to factory Jun 11 13:42:28 or I should say, is there a public way that anyone can get it, without having clicked through a welcome screen license agreement on the pre? Jun 11 13:43:01 nebula: that would be very useful info Jun 11 13:43:10 unless the restore to factory puts it into 1.0.2 for us :( Jun 11 13:43:15 differential analysis is usually fruitful :-) Jun 11 13:43:25 i'm not sure if the jar has 1.0.2 Jun 11 13:43:43 who wants to try it for us? Jun 11 13:43:50 xdiff? Jun 11 13:44:00 should be simple enough *knock on wood* Jun 11 13:44:10 though my work laptop has linux, so no go for me Jun 11 13:44:17 I don't have it Jun 11 13:44:37 do you need to know someone to get a mojo kit? Jun 11 13:45:02 I heard they were limited Jun 11 13:45:07 nebula: quilt would allow us to have a public set of patches, and you could just wget the ones you want (they would all have unique names, and some sort of numeric ordering for overlapping patches) Jun 11 13:45:26 yeah, so build custom patches for all the hacks Jun 11 13:45:29 Optimo: sdk access is still under nda Jun 11 13:45:38 keep them in svn somewhere Jun 11 13:45:43 nebula: exactly Jun 11 13:45:56 maintainer just has to check in latest code Jun 11 13:46:00 have a gui app which you can use to select the ones you want Jun 11 13:46:05 yup Jun 11 13:46:19 otherwise fail. Jun 11 13:46:29 diff's will prolly break the hacks, no doubt. Jun 11 13:46:38 (palm patches) Jun 11 13:46:49 sure, but quilt will not apply unless it can find a match Jun 11 13:47:15 if it's good enough for andrew morton's kernel patchset, it's good enough for this job Jun 11 13:47:56 then you can also push and pop individual patches on the command line for testing Jun 11 13:48:23 hrm, so no go on the daemon for linux.. too bad. Jun 11 13:49:57 nebula: you could even use svn on the Pre to upload your latest refreshed patch Jun 11 13:50:01 we should be able to see which url the updater goes to ? Jun 11 13:50:17 bpadalino|work: yeah Jun 11 13:50:25 just need someone to tcpdump it Jun 11 13:50:25 simple Jun 11 13:50:43 prolly just an ipkg Jun 11 13:51:10 someone pastebined a download.log earlier Jun 11 13:51:10 hmm, this calls for my spare windows hard disk. Jun 11 13:51:19 let me search the logs for ti Jun 11 13:51:20 it Jun 11 13:51:47 bpadalino: do you have a /var/log/download.log file on your pre? Jun 11 13:51:54 dreadchicken: ah, that was you. Jun 11 13:52:24 Jun 11 06:56:28 /var/log/download.log seems to have the the 1.0.2 download info Jun 11 13:52:47 rwhitby, i don't have a usb cable with me .. and i can't seme to figure out how to get my evdo IP from the UI Jun 11 13:53:08 anyone with a pre who can confirm the existence and contents of /var/log/download.log ? Jun 11 13:53:38 [main: 558]: Downloaded /var/lib/update/ Jun 11 13:53:43 there it is Jun 11 13:53:46 i'll dpaste it Jun 11 13:54:45 http://dpaste.com/54121/ Jun 11 13:54:48 good stuff Jun 11 13:55:29 nebula: ok, so now we just need the URL Jun 11 13:55:40 and hope it's not SSL Jun 11 13:56:03 i need to understand the difference between the luna:// uri and the palm:// Jun 11 13:56:12 palm://com.palm.download is the update service .. Jun 11 13:56:25 http://dpaste.com/54122/ Jun 11 13:56:29 bpadalino: I think the former is UI and the latter is service Jun 11 13:56:29 ^ interesting Jun 11 13:56:53 bpadalino|work: luna is the ui Jun 11 13:57:28 and palm is just a normal service ? but where is com.palm.download registered in the system ? Jun 11 13:59:48 nebula: any interesting strings in /usr/bin/PmUpdater ? Jun 11 14:00:06 one sec, gotta show off my shell access to an apple fanboi Jun 11 14:00:34 or /usr/bin/UpdateDaemon perhaps more likely Jun 11 14:01:33 lots of commands in those files Jun 11 14:01:41 can anyone else run 'strings /usr/bin/UpdateDaemon' on their device and pastebin it? Jun 11 14:01:59 rwhitby, you don't need the device to run strings on the file :) Jun 11 14:02:02 just the file itself Jun 11 14:02:11 bpadalino: I'm just lazy :-) Jun 11 14:02:27 (not at the computer which has the rootfs unpacked) Jun 11 14:02:40 can you do something similar in windows? Jun 11 14:03:08 wireless, cygwin has the tool - and i am sure there are native implementations for strings Jun 11 14:03:10 let me fix this by a judicious scp or two Jun 11 14:03:43 bpadalino|work: ah ok Jun 11 14:04:11 well i think im too lazy to install it tonight :P Jun 11 14:06:06 bpadalino: any http:// strings? Jun 11 14:06:11 rwhitby, no :( Jun 11 14:06:12 rwhitby, what's the easiest way to get a armv7l rootfs of OE? Jun 11 14:06:20 could we change ("visible": false) in the appinfo.json for com.palm.app.devmodeswitcher to true so we can turn on and off dev mode without entering the konami code??? or did someone already did this? Jun 11 14:06:33 Sargun: angstrom image feeds Jun 11 14:06:39 but there is a palm.com Jun 11 14:06:46 rwhitby, where do I find there? Jun 11 14:06:52 dyn: yes thats possible Jun 11 14:06:57 i did it yesterday and reported it Jun 11 14:07:05 omadm.swupdate.palm.com in UpdateDaemon Jun 11 14:07:10 you can also just remove the entire line as well, and fix the comma in the previous line Jun 11 14:08:33 Sargun: somewhere under http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/autobuild/ probably Jun 11 14:08:41 ok Jun 11 14:09:52 https://ps13.sb.palm.com/palmcsext/swupdateserver Jun 11 14:10:01 You have successfully deployed class com.palm.oma.dm.web.OmaDmServlet in the Servlet container. Jun 11 14:10:04 i don't know what that means Jun 11 14:10:58 maybe even palm folks don't know what that means Jun 11 14:10:59 :D Jun 11 14:11:06 heh Jun 11 14:11:43 hehe Jun 11 14:11:57 we need to trace an update and see if anything is in the clear Jun 11 14:12:29 anyone set up to tcpdump an update? Jun 11 14:13:23 want to download amazon mp3 over evdo? "download: function(track, userInitiated) { // download only if wifi is on Mojo.Log.info("Amazon App: DOWNLOAD MANGER download: wifi: %s, userInitiated: %s", AppAssistant.connectionResponse.wifi.state, userInitiated); if (AppAssistant.connectionResponse.wifi.state == "connected") {" Jun 11 14:14:42 sprint's evdo is capable of downloading mp3s from amazon so i dont know why they blocked it in the code Jun 11 14:15:45 probably to avoid the iphone 3g overload effect Jun 11 14:16:02 change that line to if true Jun 11 14:16:46 /usr/share/omadm/DmTree.xml is interesting Jun 11 14:16:49 bpo2jy: fair use probably covers you, but it would have been better to just list the filename and line number in the channel rather than pasting palm's code Jun 11 14:17:44 yep Jun 11 14:17:58 i think any urls will be in var/lib/software/SessionFiles Jun 11 14:18:11 anyone know about web services? Jun 11 14:18:47 but i think you have to check for that folder on a device, i cant find it in the rootfs Jun 11 14:18:57 Interesting password on line 289 of that DmTree.xml file ... Jun 11 14:20:03 prob amazons code, but yeah Jun 11 14:20:39 download-manager.js line 442 Jun 11 14:20:39 hey guys Jun 11 14:21:02 i saw that the webOS ROM is available for download Jun 11 14:21:08 are there any chances to run webOS like a virtual machine? Jun 11 14:21:11 :D Jun 11 14:22:10 dpo2jy: no line 442 in my download-manager.js haha Jun 11 14:22:38 d3sm0nd_lost:it theoretically can happy, that's what the SDK does, but no one has figured out how to do it using what we have currently Jun 11 14:22:54 s/happy/happen/ Jun 11 14:23:17 using notepad++ Jun 11 14:23:38 interesting :) Jun 11 14:23:46 i have 124 lines in this version Jun 11 14:24:13 is there a way to create a new card without running a new app? Jun 11 14:24:18 palm/applications/com.palm.app.amazonstore/app/models Jun 11 14:25:24 like the browser, just runs another browser instance when u do new card Jun 11 14:25:49 midnight here - night all. Jun 11 14:25:50 can someone with a pre check if there is a /var/lib/software/SessionFiles folder? Jun 11 14:26:02 rwhitby: goodnight Jun 11 14:26:11 and i cant htink of what other apps just open new cards Jun 11 14:26:17 to look and see how Jun 11 14:27:00 rwhitby, those were only images, do you have a rootfs tarball? Jun 11 14:27:49 ok, who wants to develop enough of an app, that you can finish developing the rest of it on the pre itself! Jun 11 14:28:01 Sargun: there's .tar.gz rootfs files under http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/images/ Jun 11 14:28:10 bare min would be a text field that dumps to a file, and has a reload button right? Jun 11 14:28:12 lol :) Jun 11 14:28:46 rwhitby, I'm goinmg to be an idiot and ask which one runs on the pre Jun 11 14:28:49 good morning you crazy people Jun 11 14:28:56 Sargun: dunno Jun 11 14:29:22 Sargun: hmm - not many have rootfs stuff either. Jun 11 14:29:30 Sargun: perhaps ask in #angstrom or #oe Jun 11 14:32:26 Sargun: perhaps a beagle board rootfs from somewhere? Jun 11 14:32:29 guys on what file system is webOS running? ext3? Jun 11 14:33:19 d3sm0nd_lost: ext3 on lvm on internal fixed sd Jun 11 14:33:24 lots more info in http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos-internals/webos-internals.20090611.txt Jun 11 14:33:41 feel free to summarise to the wiki ;-) Jun 11 14:33:43 hrmm .. Jun 11 14:33:47 looking here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb737562.aspx Jun 11 14:33:57 that explains this whole OMA DM thing .. Jun 11 14:34:29 SyncML? Jun 11 14:34:33 apparently Jun 11 14:34:42 thanks Jun 11 14:34:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMA_Device_Management Jun 11 14:35:00 Open Mobile Alliance! Jun 11 14:37:51 there is a Fnmbl-ClientApi.jar which has stuff from funambol.com which seems to do this OMA DM stuff ? Jun 11 14:41:59 funambol is an open source oma dm client according to wikipedia, so it sounds about right Jun 11 14:42:32 ok, I'm really off to bed this time. Jun 11 14:42:59 yikes, you've been awake that whole time Jun 11 14:56:40 * wireless89 is off to bed, have a good night/day Jun 11 14:56:51 g'nite Jun 11 14:57:44 hmmm Jun 11 14:57:50 createStageWithCallback anyone use htat? Jun 11 15:01:47 a restore from palm profile doesnt restores links between contacts and AIM profiles Jun 11 15:05:03 anyone feeling adventurous? Jun 11 15:05:37 with their phone? or just in general? Jun 11 15:05:48 with their phone Jun 11 15:06:06 im trying to make clicking a thread in messaging create a new stage Jun 11 15:06:12 and i dont haave the setup to test it right now Jun 11 15:06:15 and im anxious Jun 11 15:08:37 wiki updated with ipkg-opt notes. THEY ARE NOTES, DO NOT USE THEM. Jun 11 15:12:25 anyone wanna help :) Jun 11 15:12:40 at worst itll blow up your messaging app and you can just copy the backup of the file back Jun 11 15:14:46 blau-mikeDG: my hacking has to take second priority to my daily work, sorry :/ Jun 11 15:15:48 :( Jun 11 15:20:28 the back of the pre should rotate so we can type in landscape mode on thebrowser :) Jun 11 15:20:44 hehe Jun 11 15:21:00 or just spin it like a windmill Jun 11 15:24:48 ok Jun 11 15:30:55 blau-mikeDG: you were looking to add pages to the launcher yesterday, weren't you? Jun 11 15:32:02 yeah i out how to add stuff to the launcher Jun 11 15:32:25 i was then looking at how to add programs to the speed dial, but i hit a brick wall and suspect its not possible Jun 11 15:33:00 I put some instructions on how to enable adding pages to the launcher on the wiki Jun 11 15:33:30 oh adding pages yeah i was looking at that too Jun 11 15:33:37 but didnt figure it out Jun 11 15:35:08 adding pages? like links? Jun 11 15:35:19 jwsh: Thanks for the info. Jun 11 15:35:20 currently the launcher has 3 pages Jun 11 15:35:32 summatusmentis: You can add/delete pages. Jun 11 15:35:36 which you can place icons on Jun 11 15:35:42 oh, I see Jun 11 15:35:48 * summatusmentis does not have a device Jun 11 15:35:59 ah, sorry to hear that Jun 11 15:36:06 Hehe Jun 11 15:36:53 jwsh: meh, poor college student, studying abroad in the fall, etc. etc. Jun 11 15:37:02 I can't get call duration to show up in the calls log. Jun 11 15:37:40 did you reboot? Jun 11 15:37:46 Yep Jun 11 15:37:50 Tried it twice now Jun 11 15:38:01 the whole process Jun 11 15:38:25 hmm. worked for me Jun 11 15:38:58 you mind pasing in the result of select * from Cookies where domain_tail = "app.phone"; Jun 11 15:39:06 excellent with the adding and removing pages though, jwsh Jun 11 15:39:25 hold on Jun 11 15:39:51 select *? Jun 11 15:40:06 ok sec Jun 11 15:40:06 sure Jun 11 15:41:15 .usr.palm.applications.com.palm.|app.phone|/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone|mojo_cookie_hidecalllogduration|%221%22|-1|0 Jun 11 15:41:28 That's it Jun 11 15:41:31 doesn't look like it took the update Jun 11 15:41:37 :( Jun 11 15:41:50 did you have the phone app open? maybe it overwrites the cookies when you close it? Jun 11 15:42:00 I don't think I did. Jun 11 15:42:23 there's an update already? Jun 11 15:42:46 how do i edit a file over shh, i can open it, but how do i edit and save it?? Jun 11 15:42:54 no, the sql command Jun 11 15:43:00 summa: it's a tweak we're trying to do on the phone manually Jun 11 15:43:14 ah, I see Jun 11 15:44:16 ahh its been 15 hours.. wonder what i have missed. Jun 11 15:44:22 I might have opened the phone app before rebooting. Gonna try it again Jun 11 15:48:24 how do i edit and save a file in ssh?? Jun 11 15:48:53 do you know how to use a linux terminal? Jun 11 15:49:06 i have the file opened Jun 11 15:49:30 how did you open it? with what cmd? dynamorac Jun 11 15:49:31 use vi to open the file, :wq! to save it in rw mode Jun 11 15:49:52 if you're not sure, you should prolly learn on a different machine first Jun 11 15:50:08 rw is not very forgiving Jun 11 15:50:10 ;) Jun 11 15:50:15 jwsh: Still didn't take it. Jun 11 15:50:23 ie. there's no recycle bin Jun 11 15:51:37 how do i edit the file? because going down and trying to uncoment something doesnt work Jun 11 15:51:58 what does that mean? Jun 11 15:52:00 go to another unix machine and type 'man vi' Jun 11 15:52:06 type 'i' Jun 11 15:52:14 what does " because going down and trying to uncoment something doesnt work" mean? Jun 11 15:52:28 do what treo8 said Jun 11 15:52:42 ultraBlack: if you issue the update command, then do that select right after, does it show the correct value? Jun 11 15:52:52 jwsh: let me see Jun 11 15:53:01 "i" worked thanks Jun 11 15:53:14 then hit "esc" to get out of "i" mode Jun 11 15:53:27 when finished, type :wq! to save it Jun 11 15:58:27 stupid thing Jun 11 15:59:37 looks like it doesn't give you any feedback if the update doesn't match any records Jun 11 16:00:07 think I figured out what I was doing wrong. callogduration is actually calllogduration. stupid typo. i also just learned how to paste into putty :P i'm rebooting now lets see if this works. Jun 11 16:00:28 ultraBlack: careful with right click ;) Jun 11 16:00:30 if i had known paste was right click earlier...man Jun 11 16:00:35 it can bite you Jun 11 16:00:42 yeah i'll bet Jun 11 16:02:39 perfect. works Jun 11 16:03:15 excellent! I'm adding a warning to the instructions about that Jun 11 16:04:05 lol Jun 11 16:05:50 alright gtg see you guys later Jun 11 16:08:10 another question, i cant seem to connect thru ssh usin putty on vista, any tricks i have to do Jun 11 16:08:59 works in backtrack 3 but not in putty Jun 11 16:10:44 set the port? Jun 11 16:12:19 thanks vlaurenz Jun 11 16:16:54 is there an optware package that updates dyn-dns info? Jun 11 16:19:05 ah, cool. Someone found open://tty Jun 11 16:20:32 er typo, but you know what I mean Jun 11 16:20:36 dynamorac: np Jun 11 16:20:56 chrisa: I don't Jun 11 16:21:05 hey, its chron Jun 11 16:21:10 hi guys Jun 11 16:22:48 prochobo, inadyn Jun 11 16:23:09 thanks dread Jun 11 16:23:30 brb Jun 11 16:24:05 alright off to work, good luck Jun 11 16:28:29 anyone run across the gps in /proc or /sys? Jun 11 16:34:04 Hello Jun 11 16:34:40 hi Jun 11 16:35:08 Just found this place. I was curious if anyone has found a way to update the PRLs on the PRE yet Jun 11 16:35:44 I don't know thta anyone has tried Jun 11 16:36:35 There's a button for it in the phone preferences. Jun 11 16:37:03 I meant change the PRL to point to another carriers towers Jun 11 16:37:32 so custom PRL, not update to a new Sprint version Jun 11 16:37:39 yeah Jun 11 16:37:58 have you downloaded the rom thing from Palm? Jun 11 16:38:46 Yep, I'm browsing through all of it as we speak Jun 11 16:39:16 The CDMA chip inside is by qualcomm if I recall correctly, right? Jun 11 16:40:01 resources/webOS.tar/castlecdma_evt1_fw.tar is where the PRL list seems to be Jun 11 16:40:32 so theoretically if people can get their custom ROMs loading on the Pre, you could just change the PRL yourself Jun 11 16:40:35 yes, it's a qualcomm chip Jun 11 16:41:24 would someone mind doing a df -h and tell how much used/available space you have on / Jun 11 16:41:39 anyone have info from a linux host what the pre looks like in dev mode ? Jun 11 16:41:45 i think someone was working on it last night ? Jun 11 16:42:35 http://mypre.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/palm_pre_android.jpg :O Jun 11 16:42:50 i think that's a potential goal Jun 11 16:43:00 though it would probably work more like android on windows mobile Jun 11 16:43:33 prochobo, it's ~440MB and 70MB free. Jun 11 16:43:58 oh wow, i royally screwed up. i've got 9.7MB free Jun 11 16:45:24 nm, just wiped out everything under /opt. have 73.8MB free now Jun 11 16:46:08 what the hell did you put in there? emacs? Jun 11 16:46:24 torrentflux :hides: Jun 11 16:47:20 Good afternoon. Kudos to all of you who are parsing and learning about and *teaching* about the WebOS internals. Jun 11 16:52:17 prochobo, if you had those things installed via palm ipkg you will need to fix ipkg. i don't know how to remove stale packages, so you will need to google it or maybe someone here knows. Jun 11 16:53:00 ipkg has a very similar interface to dpkg Jun 11 16:53:15 So, you shouldn't have any problems Jun 11 16:58:36 You know what would make my day? Spread the word to your friends and get them to stop saying the image was a "leak" Jun 11 17:00:10 I agree, I've been telling everyone I see talking about the "leak" Jun 11 17:00:56 it's not a leak, it's a discovery Jun 11 17:01:06 heh Jun 11 17:01:14 chrisa: what's that? Palm is upset about the leak? :) Jun 11 17:01:14 It's a public posting on a website that we freely gave the url out to Jun 11 17:01:19 simple url in the root of their domain is hardly a leak Jun 11 17:01:47 Bartman007: no, but it's silly to see reddit and such have all these conspiracy theories about how it's a leak because we would NEVER give out "our codes" Jun 11 17:01:47 * nebula sings the konami code Jun 11 17:02:02 that... or the contra theme song Jun 11 17:02:07 Hey, I found this cool site where palm is leaking info about the pre. http://palm.com/pre!!!11! Jun 11 17:02:12 oh, darn, palm.com/SDK doesn't work Jun 11 17:02:19 haha Jun 11 17:02:21 chrisa: shame on you for listening to slashdot/reddit/digg comments. Jun 11 17:02:30 they're just as bad as youtube. Jun 11 17:02:32 I read engadget comments mostly Jun 11 17:02:34 They're great Jun 11 17:02:55 you... read comments? Jun 11 17:02:58 like, on purpose? Jun 11 17:03:01 the internet is made of 96% ignorant people, 3% actually know what they're talking about Jun 11 17:03:09 1% margin of error ;) Jun 11 17:03:15 Comments are amusing because you see every side Jun 11 17:03:22 Even the uninformed ones Jun 11 17:03:33 every side of the stupid? Jun 11 17:03:38 trolls! Jun 11 17:03:44 infinity doesn't have sides Jun 11 17:03:45 I get so frustrated reading comments Jun 11 17:03:50 try fark... Jun 11 17:03:55 it's hilarious Jun 11 17:04:00 When I first started here I developed a thick skin for comments pretty quickly Jun 11 17:04:08 partially because no one knows how to build proper sentences. Jun 11 17:04:16 lolz!oneone!!!111 Jun 11 17:04:51 the worst part is, people think that's how "people on the internet talk" so they emulate it Jun 11 17:05:02 who was helping me with the Novaterm.java yesterday - was that you nebula ? Jun 11 17:05:03 I just adore the palm support forum posts where people are so mad that, say, the pre doesn't support file transfer over bt Jun 11 17:05:09 You mean like various congressmen? Jun 11 17:05:37 nebula, can you get that program to run again from last night? and do you have novacomd running when you do ? Jun 11 17:05:45 chrisa: I mean everyone who doesn't spend a lot of time on the internet. Jun 11 17:05:55 or like "if palm doesn't fix my esoteric problems within two weeks I'm going to return my Pre and boy won't they be sorry" Jun 11 17:06:04 bpadalino|work: yeah Jun 11 17:06:13 it frustrates me so much when people don't understand how to think, or write Jun 11 17:06:20 i was running novacomd, in windows. Jun 11 17:06:20 PCworld already made claims that the launch failed and we sacrificed Ed to the tech overlords Jun 11 17:06:25 maybe I'm elitist because of it Jun 11 17:06:27 nebula, great - thanks! Jun 11 17:06:34 then i ran the java class within eclipse Jun 11 17:06:40 problem though, i'm in linux at work :) Jun 11 17:06:41 just wanted to verify Jun 11 17:06:46 chrisa: will you send me a drumstick? Jun 11 17:06:51 it definitely works in windows Jun 11 17:06:56 chrisa: really? I hadn't heard claims like that anywhere but angry forum posts Jun 11 17:06:58 yeah - because of novacomd Jun 11 17:07:00 yup Jun 11 17:07:05 does novaterm.java let you connect over usb? Jun 11 17:07:06 i was so confused last night Jun 11 17:07:08 http://www.pcworld.com/article/166488/palm_pre_going_down.html Jun 11 17:07:12 blau-mikeDG: yup Jun 11 17:07:18 blau, yeah - usb on windows Jun 11 17:07:19 cool, where can i find it Jun 11 17:07:23 oh, well .. Jun 11 17:07:26 it isn't finished by any means Jun 11 17:07:27 bpadalino|work: heh, yeah we need a usb linux daemon now. Jun 11 17:07:28 proof of concept! Jun 11 17:07:38 so i can develop at work too! Jun 11 17:07:43 i have no network and its driving me nuts Jun 11 17:07:59 yeah - i think we need to objdump the OS X executable .. and see what it's doing Jun 11 17:08:03 and i wanna test some things Jun 11 17:08:26 is the gps part of the cdma radio or does it hang off usb? Jun 11 17:08:33 bpadalino|work: I'd be careful about distributing that objdump Jun 11 17:08:45 (not sure if that's what you're suggesting or not) Jun 11 17:08:53 boy, it sure would be nice if palm 'leaked' the linux version of novacom in the next version of webos doctor Jun 11 17:09:00 ... Jun 11 17:09:43 summatusmentis, nah - i wouldn't distribute it Jun 11 17:10:06 k, just making sure :) Jun 11 17:10:20 http://pastie.org/508042.txt is that what we are discussing? Jun 11 17:10:32 indeed! Jun 11 17:10:45 i wrote it last night - and it links to the jar supplied Jun 11 17:11:19 http://i39.tinypic.com/9k49zd.jpg - and that's what you get when it runs properly Jun 11 17:11:24 is that the latest im gonna toy with it and see if i can imporve Jun 11 17:11:33 yeah - go nuts Jun 11 17:12:09 that's awesome bpadalino|work Jun 11 17:12:24 do we know anything about the legality of distributing something that links to something distributed by palm? Jun 11 17:12:29 but you need novacomd working to be able to do anything .. Jun 11 17:13:01 summat, they supplied the libraries - and i am just distributing the source .. you still need the jar from palm to do anything Jun 11 17:13:03 Anyone in here buy the roughcuts of the o'reilly book on webos? Jun 11 17:13:17 i bought it Jun 11 17:13:32 i did Jun 11 17:13:34 is it any good? worth buying? Jun 11 17:13:35 so really you'd be distributing the source or the class files which reference the jar that palm owns .. Jun 11 17:13:43 and you'd need to get the jar from them to be able to run it Jun 11 17:13:46 i suspect linking to a publicly available library is fine, but actually distributing the lib is bad. Jun 11 17:14:12 jwsh: i'm not sure yet, right now it's a pretty high-level intro to development with mojo Jun 11 17:14:20 jwsh: i think the author still has a lot left to fill in Jun 11 17:14:43 they are probably pretty busy over there Jun 11 17:14:47 bpadalino|work: well, some liecensing (or lack) is explicit about linking to libraries Jun 11 17:14:53 such as LGPL, for instance Jun 11 17:15:20 i think the question hinges upon whether linking creates a derivative work Jun 11 17:15:36 no way, they are all at the offices drinking beer and logged in here hooting it up as we do silly things. =p Jun 11 17:15:38 which it arguably does Jun 11 17:16:21 they can sue me i guess if they want ... i have really done no hacking at all - this is all just normal poking around Jun 11 17:16:54 you'll get a cease and desist first, I just wanna make sure we're not stepping on anyone's toes Jun 11 17:16:59 you know? Jun 11 17:17:09 We haven't had beer at work since the release party unfortunately Jun 11 17:17:21 chrisa, sorry to hear that :( Jun 11 17:17:26 lot of users here Jun 11 17:17:47 chrisa, if i am ever out there and you need a beer - the next one is on me Jun 11 17:18:06 chrisa, what is mail stop? i'll send some. Jun 11 17:19:00 I'm going to point at novaproxy.py again, as another way to connect to a terminal over usb on windows. Use it and PuTTY as described in the comments. Jun 11 17:19:14 bpadalino: i got som einteractivity into novaterm.java Jun 11 17:19:25 i've never found need or want to be appropriate terms when talking beer. beer is beer, we drink it because it is. Jun 11 17:19:28 http://github.com/asedeno/novaproxy/ Jun 11 17:19:39 yeah, asedeno_work's done a great job with his python script and should probably be used over any java thing Jun 11 17:20:19 i guess ill use novaproxy though :) Jun 11 17:20:35 zsazs: thanks for the review, I guess I'll hold off until palm gets around to releasing the SDK Jun 11 17:21:00 If someone is really awesome, they'll even make notes and screenshots for setting it up on the wiki. :) Jun 11 17:21:31 i guess the only thing i am not a fan of with the python script is that it requires python and then putty as well .. Jun 11 17:21:45 wikkity wack! Jun 11 17:21:56 Would you rather I write my own ANSI terminal emulator? No thanks. :) Jun 11 17:22:09 i thought python had everything Jun 11 17:24:01 python pwns java nub Jun 11 17:24:05 i kid Jun 11 17:24:10 presumably if you want to ssh into the pre, you already have an ssh client Jun 11 17:24:32 as sick as it is, i wonder if the pre even has a non-graphics console. Jun 11 17:24:33 im gonna try my messaging edit soon Jun 11 17:24:35 this is for usb connectivity Jun 11 17:24:39 novaterm actually uses PuTTY in raw mode. Jun 11 17:24:45 novaproxy, rather. Jun 11 17:25:05 wow that pc world article is ridiculous Jun 11 17:25:06 /opt/bin/dbclient is the ssh client if you have dropbear installed Jun 11 17:25:41 oh that's not what someone was wondering, never mind Jun 11 17:25:54 i have ln -s /opt/bin/dbclient to /usr/local/ssh and /usr/local/bin/scp. Jun 11 17:26:11 err, /usr/local/bin/ssh Jun 11 17:26:17 dreadchicken, do you have your /opt in a file in /media/internal ? Jun 11 17:27:15 no, i'm going a different path. i'm -betting- that /var is persistent and have gone /var/opt with a symlink. it's more dangerous than doing a loopback on /media/internal for several reasons. Jun 11 17:28:08 i could fill up /var...that would be bad. i may well be wrong, that would squish my opt, i might even cause update issues. Jun 11 17:28:43 the thing i really liked about /media/internal was two-fold - 1) /var is pretty tight .. and filling it up is a problem and 2) when in mass storage mode, you could mount the file locally on your machine and modify contents .. Jun 11 17:29:16 thanks for the call log trick guys! Jun 11 17:29:18 :) Jun 11 17:29:27 and 3) you could potentially create a "homebrew dev opt.ext3" which people just download .. Jun 11 17:29:36 and modify their path Jun 11 17:29:40 and it's all done Jun 11 17:29:50 does it get unmounted by the pre in storage mode, if (true) cool else ouch. Jun 11 17:30:12 no - it doesn't .. Jun 11 17:30:55 i wonder how bad you can screw it up if you modify it from outside while it's still mounted Jun 11 17:31:05 yeah, i think the loop is probably the right way to do it and i may convert to it at a later time. i have a personal dislike for rw loops, especially on vfat...no good reason. Jun 11 17:31:16 ls Jun 11 17:31:22 badly i would think. Jun 11 17:31:27 you think so? Jun 11 17:31:30 i don't think it would be too bad Jun 11 17:31:38 Whoops! Wrong window. ;) Jun 11 17:31:39 in linux, you can delete the current directory you're in .. Jun 11 17:31:42 has anyone confirmed that 'shutdown -r' works as if cycling the units power? Jun 11 17:31:44 and it will still recover no problem Jun 11 17:31:52 it will just not know where you arein the fs, right ? Jun 11 17:32:35 two machines accessing the same ext3 without knowing about each other? that would be a bad thing(tm) imho. Jun 11 17:33:09 dread, only if both are writing - right ? Jun 11 17:33:17 maybe make /opt read-only from the phone's perspective .. Jun 11 17:33:35 unless you want to perform some ipkg operation Jun 11 17:34:03 gotta jet, back later. Jun 11 17:34:08 later Jun 11 17:34:23 i haven't done any real work at work for over a week :( Jun 11 17:34:51 PC World writers are a bunch of @ssholes Jun 11 17:34:55 ?? Jun 11 17:35:57 . Jun 11 17:37:08 cool got my fav sound from my android phone on as notification Jun 11 17:37:58 blau-mikeDG: which sound? Jun 11 17:38:14 caffeinated snake! Jun 11 17:38:15 * mikewx changed his to the mario coin sound Jun 11 17:39:14 i wish vi worked well in putty raw mode :( Jun 11 17:39:59 it doesn't ? Jun 11 17:40:04 blau, what happens if you set TERM=vt100? Jun 11 17:41:08 putty raw mode means there's no terminal handshaking going on, so the pre doesn't know what terminal emulation you have Jun 11 17:42:12 trying to run my messaging app mod Jun 11 17:42:21 did not work :( Jun 11 17:42:27 damnit :( Jun 11 17:42:43 why do EVDO phones even have network routable IP addresses? Jun 11 17:42:58 maybe it needs a reboot? Jun 11 17:42:59 why not? Jun 11 17:43:07 so we can run apache? :) Jun 11 17:43:31 * Sargun is close to getting lighttpd running Jun 11 17:43:53 Sargun: because there aren't enough IPv4 addresses to waste them like that Jun 11 17:44:15 doh i typed grep somefile Jun 11 17:44:20 how do i get out of it now Jun 11 17:44:25 blau-mikeDG: control-c Jun 11 17:44:29 giovani, uhm, are you serious that you want privileges taken away? Jun 11 17:44:32 or ctrl+d i think Jun 11 17:44:35 (eof) Jun 11 17:44:39 oh i didnt hit enter after control c Jun 11 17:44:43 thats why Jun 11 17:44:44 Sargun: what? Jun 11 17:44:58 interesting Jun 11 17:45:55 ack Jun 11 17:46:06 what did i miss...? been rewriting subnets Jun 11 17:46:17 err... filling. Jun 11 17:46:26 lol webserver running on our phones Jun 11 17:46:28 sprint will hate us Jun 11 17:46:53 prochobo: don't worry, I'm sure sprint heavily firewalls Jun 11 17:48:05 adhoc with a webserver sounds amusing Jun 11 17:49:34 how do i use novaproxy? its listening on 8023 but i cant get it to connect Jun 11 17:50:08 i'm actually thinking about writing a native mini web server that a js app on the pre can talk to via xmlhttprequest Jun 11 17:50:26 the native app can then do cool things like sshing out, etc Jun 11 17:50:37 I wrote a flashlight app. Wondering what to do with it Jun 11 17:50:42 The flash is blinding Jun 11 17:50:45 haha Jun 11 17:51:15 zsazs, i would like to run top in a card and see the output constantly Jun 11 17:51:21 i think that would be amusing Jun 11 17:51:33 bpadalino|work: should be possible Jun 11 17:51:40 i flashlight app is very handy i had one on my Touch pro Jun 11 17:51:44 there's a js vt100 library available Jun 11 17:51:53 i'll try to hack on it tonight Jun 11 17:52:00 i want to figure out dbus Jun 11 17:52:01 has anyone ipkg'd apache yet? Jun 11 17:52:04 and being able to add my own services Jun 11 17:52:23 is there support in mojo for dbus? Jun 11 17:52:31 i guess there is Jun 11 17:52:39 omg a web server on our hips lol Jun 11 17:52:59 that may be a better communication medium than hacky xmlhttprequest Jun 11 17:53:24 "Sorry, my website isn't available right now. My phone is sleeping." Jun 11 17:53:47 zsazs, i am pretty sure dbus is their IPC mechanism .. and how they get Mojo to communicate to "native" apps Jun 11 17:53:51 we may need a new http error # assigned Jun 11 17:54:13 mikewx: and .. the server returns that when it's off? Jun 11 17:54:29 it the device ever really off? Jun 11 17:54:59 mikewx, it definitely turns off the wifi when it goes to sleep Jun 11 17:55:22 ah, so it reverts to evdo for push email when it sleeps? Jun 11 17:55:27 sorry, haven't looked at that part much Jun 11 17:55:39 and pandora? yikes Jun 11 17:55:50 bpadalino|work: oma is a standard protocol/organization for things like drm on ringtones, pictures, etc. but has other standards that might be related to that omadm thing Jun 11 17:56:02 novaproxy isn't working for me. Should I just do the over the air version? Jun 11 17:56:25 ok, got some spare time here... time to put doh.wav as my incoming mail sound. Jun 11 17:56:51 if wifi isn't in use when it goes to sleep, i think it turns off Jun 11 17:57:00 (my ssh session dies) Jun 11 17:57:18 i wonder what happens if i am pulling from pandora and let it go to sleep Jun 11 17:57:54 bpadalino|work: ahh, i'll look into mojo DBUS support Jun 11 17:58:34 grrrrroar none of this shit is workign Jun 11 17:59:07 yayy inadyn works to u pdate dyndns address. downside, if you have wifi on, it updates with that IP instead of EVDO ip Jun 11 18:01:07 ok - so if the wifi is already engaged when it goes to sleep - it stays up Jun 11 18:01:08 neato Jun 11 18:01:45 playing pandora with the screen off uses ~15% CPU Jun 11 18:02:11 are apps cached? Jun 11 18:02:17 maybe thats why none of my changes worked Jun 11 18:02:20 woopsie Jun 11 18:02:23 trying a reboot now Jun 11 18:02:24 possibly Jun 11 18:02:25 bpadalino, how do you keep the wifi engaged? Jun 11 18:02:29 Haha, they have support for ext4! Jun 11 18:02:31 I love palm./ Jun 11 18:02:35 LunaSysMgr uses a LOT of memory Jun 11 18:03:06 bpadalino|work, I think it has some natural caching in it. Jun 11 18:03:06 251M virtual, 78M resident Jun 11 18:03:11 It grows in memory usage over time Jun 11 18:03:21 78M wow Jun 11 18:03:32 Sargun: that's not good :/ Jun 11 18:03:58 vlaurenz, My guess is it is using caching Jun 11 18:04:09 sargun, i am using pandora to keep the wifi engaged Jun 11 18:04:19 Sargun: or leaking memory ;) Jun 11 18:04:31 leaking poop! Jun 11 18:04:36 bpadalino|work, I'm using pandora too, except it eats a lot of CPU/memory Jun 11 18:04:37 haha Jun 11 18:04:42 i managed to break messaging hurray Jun 11 18:04:48 blau-mikeDG, nice. Jun 11 18:05:05 bpadalino|work, someone needs to go through all the dbus interfaces Jun 11 18:05:07 no errors, just a blank screen, guess my ideas didnt work or maybe the original idea did wor who knows now ugh Jun 11 18:05:13 sargun, i guess pandora is the thing taking up this 78M Jun 11 18:05:23 sargun, agreed Jun 11 18:05:31 there is information in /usr/share/dbus i believe Jun 11 18:05:46 what are you looking for? Jun 11 18:05:53 /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services Jun 11 18:06:01 i don't have pandora running, mine is 260MB/81MB Jun 11 18:06:10 prochobo, your LunaSysMgr ? Jun 11 18:06:14 yes Jun 11 18:06:26 Can one of the wiki maintainers put up instructions for taring the rootfs to the internal storage and copying it to a pc for backup. Obviously a simple task, but I think it'd be good to remind people on the wiki to backup before they start tweaking apps. Jun 11 18:06:26 interesting Jun 11 18:06:35 what are you running? any cards or notifications up ? Jun 11 18:07:03 messaging, wifi settings, and image browser Jun 11 18:07:13 ah, yeah Jun 11 18:07:16 so it has 256mb of ram? Jun 11 18:07:18 i think i just have pandora Jun 11 18:07:18 the pre? Jun 11 18:07:20 yeah, 256M Jun 11 18:07:31 not bad Jun 11 18:07:42 pretty low on the shabbiness scale Jun 11 18:08:07 512 would be nice Jun 11 18:08:07 :) Jun 11 18:08:08 did anyone try adjusting the amazon app to download over wifi? Jun 11 18:08:14 cyanidepoison, did you get anywhere with trying to figure out what novacomd does with the usb interface ? Jun 11 18:08:20 bpadalino|work, initctl stop LunaSysMgr; while pandora is running Jun 11 18:08:28 or maybe you should downclock the cpu to 400mhz to see hows the battery Jun 11 18:08:35 sargun, what will that do ? Jun 11 18:08:36 sounds bad Jun 11 18:09:08 bpadalino, it'll stop the phone app Jun 11 18:09:18 so the front screen won't work anymore ? Jun 11 18:09:24 bpadalino|work: nope Jun 11 18:09:40 it stops everything? Jun 11 18:09:50 graphical processes I mean Jun 11 18:09:56 cyanidepoison, oh :( - how difficult do you think it would be to look at what the os x one is doing to see how to interface ? Jun 11 18:10:18 not hard at all Jun 11 18:10:25 well, depending on what it is doing Jun 11 18:10:37 I think it might be easier to use strace in some mode and parse that if there is no good usb logger on OSX Jun 11 18:10:38 If it is like the iPhone in recovery mode, it should be simple Jun 11 18:10:54 you think strace is the way to do it ? Jun 11 18:11:02 ripper, can you write on up, I'll put it on the wiki Jun 11 18:11:05 there definately is a cache for apps Jun 11 18:11:10 bpadalino, nope. Jun 11 18:11:10 llammmmme Jun 11 18:11:30 bpadalino|work: did you see the idea of tcpdump while downloading the 1.0.2 update? we should analyze the update a bit Jun 11 18:11:37 bpadalino|work: I think it's a way, I guess the usb logger would be better if it works, but strace might help with things like control messages Jun 11 18:11:51 nebula, i saw that .. Jun 11 18:12:02 i'm contemplating running that when i get home Jun 11 18:12:06 nebula, and i saw there is an OMA DM XML file that has all the info for doing SyncML .. Jun 11 18:12:07 initctl stop LunaSysService Jun 11 18:12:17 what is novacomd written in? Jun 11 18:12:25 -v -x maybe Jun 11 18:12:29 cyanidepoison, C i guess? it's a native application Jun 11 18:12:39 ok Jun 11 18:12:41 initctl stop java-serviceboot Jun 11 18:12:51 sargun, sysctl you mean ? Jun 11 18:12:58 oh nevermind Jun 11 18:13:00 bpadalino, no.. Jun 11 18:13:07 those three commands free up a lot of resources Jun 11 18:13:21 it would be good to have the simplest and predictable mux data though, like a constant stream of yes or whatever coming from the pre Jun 11 18:14:15 there is a yes command Jun 11 18:14:48 sargun, hrm - but at the expense of what ? Jun 11 18:14:57 you lose functionality at that point, right ? Jun 11 18:15:46 bpadalino, your phone stops working Jun 11 18:16:10 right Jun 11 18:16:15 sounds like a bad tradeoff :) Jun 11 18:16:21 bpadalino, eh. Jun 11 18:16:57 saves battery life Jun 11 18:16:57 dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/fb0 Jun 11 18:16:59 so who wants to take a guess that novacom is TCP over USB Jun 11 18:17:00 pretty picture Jun 11 18:17:14 cyanidepoison, do you work for palm? Jun 11 18:17:20 no? Jun 11 18:17:32 I'm 15 lol Jun 11 18:17:44 really? Cool. Jun 11 18:17:56 When I was 15 I could barely install gentoo.... Jun 11 18:17:57 I think Jun 11 18:18:27 cyanidepoison: I guess if we start wi strace -x -v we should find that out pretty quickly Jun 11 18:18:47 there's a post i made on usenet when i was 15 saying "how do i use this linux thing" Jun 11 18:18:50 in 1995 Jun 11 18:18:58 zsazs, haha Jun 11 18:19:07 * Sargun was 15 in 2006 I think. Jun 11 18:19:20 of course, it's archived in perpetuity on google groups Jun 11 18:19:24 anyone with a pre wanna do this? Jun 11 18:19:25 18-3=15? 2009-3=2006 Jun 11 18:19:37 cyanidepoison, do what Jun 11 18:19:41 Sar: I feel old... when I was 15 there was no linux. Jun 11 18:19:50 Lurking_Grue, get out old man! :-P Jun 11 18:19:59 connect a pre, run novaterm or novacom or whatever it is and run strace Jun 11 18:20:00 Get of my lawn! Jun 11 18:20:49 Lurking_Grue, It's ok, I feel like I'm 30 sometimes Jun 11 18:20:51 Why don't you do it cyanide? Jun 11 18:21:36 just got a off a great call with akamia... fun stuff Jun 11 18:21:44 i'm being sarcastic Jun 11 18:22:11 anything interesting happen this morning? Jun 11 18:22:23 I don't have a Pre Jun 11 18:22:28 opie_, Are you a network admin? Jun 11 18:22:45 ok..i updated the wiki. i wasn't comfortable with the way telnet was presented :) Jun 11 18:22:52 Sargun: nah, dev. i just sat in on the call cause i kind of run our caching too Jun 11 18:23:30 if you search for cheap airfare, i work on your packets. Jun 11 18:23:58 opie_, ah, cool. Jun 11 18:24:07 nebula, you work for saabre? ita software? Jun 11 18:24:11 nebula, oh, god. Jun 11 18:24:12 ita software Jun 11 18:24:21 i have a friend that works for ita Jun 11 18:24:24 oh yeah? Jun 11 18:24:26 pm Jun 11 18:24:45 nebula, link to the change? Jun 11 18:25:05 Telnet Method (INSECURE - This method should only be used when absolutely necessary): Jun 11 18:25:05 WARNING: The following instructions open up your Pre to the world. Anyone with advanced knowledge will be able to remotely control your device. Jun 11 18:25:07 really? Jun 11 18:25:14 advanced knowledge? Jun 11 18:25:15 ssh Jun 11 18:25:24 Optimo, I know. Jun 11 18:25:28 Sargun: When is telnet necessary? *Icks* Jun 11 18:25:30 unless you change the password Jun 11 18:25:32 I just find it funny "advanced knowledge" Jun 11 18:25:39 oh Jun 11 18:25:41 telnet is necassary when you are lazy Jun 11 18:25:51 * Sargun is going to run telnet for a while until he can get debian working Jun 11 18:25:52 Ah! Jun 11 18:25:58 the truy lazy wont change the default password Jun 11 18:26:07 ok, so it's using gadgetfs? Jun 11 18:26:15 tmzt: what does? Jun 11 18:28:31 novacomd Jun 11 18:28:36 on the pre Jun 11 18:29:01 though I don't think it's a filesystem anymore, just some nodes in /dev Jun 11 18:29:58 it uses 2.6.24 kernel so /dev is generated automaticly upon boot Jun 11 18:30:27 is gadgetfs mounted? Jun 11 18:30:37 not on boot, at least not by kernel Jun 11 18:30:47 ]in the init stage Jun 11 18:30:58 I'm pretty sure it has udev... Jun 11 18:31:15 yap and udev is generating files in /dev upon every boot Jun 11 18:32:53 http://www.linux-usb.org/gadget/usb.c Jun 11 18:33:14 so the webOS source is only found in readable format on the pre, is it buried some where in the doctor? Jun 11 18:34:13 Ok, I have a debian rootfs on the device Jun 11 18:34:16 Just checked the public log, seems the cross compiling toolchain is already working. Is there anyone documenting it? Jun 11 18:34:17 what should I do now? Jun 11 18:34:32 hack the world Jun 11 18:35:08 blau-mikeDG, hackers? Jun 11 18:35:30 it's actually, hack the planet Jun 11 18:35:34 hehe Jun 11 18:35:41 opie is a hacker, ban him Jun 11 18:35:48 you know you're a nerd when you're correcting people about the movie "hackers" Jun 11 18:35:49 he knows the secret handshake Jun 11 18:36:09 on a semi-related note, has anyone worked out how the boot process works? i'm trying the qemu-with-omap3 branch but getting nowhere Jun 11 18:36:10 nerd? Jun 11 18:36:52 cause you guys have so much on me, mr. i just installed debian rootfs on the palm pre Jun 11 18:36:55 =) Jun 11 18:38:13 heh Jun 11 18:39:13 Is there a command line ssh client on the pre? Jun 11 18:39:32 lurking_grue: if you install dropbear via ipkg Jun 11 18:39:42 opie_: really? so you are working on X? Jun 11 18:40:08 Zsa: The client comes along with the server then? Jun 11 18:40:26 lurking_grue: yep, it's /opt/bin/dbclient Jun 11 18:40:50 Ah... no wonder I didn't see it... I was looking for "ssh" ;) Jun 11 18:41:11 yeah, someone here said he symlinked dbclient to /usr/local/bin/ssh and /usr/local/bin/scp Jun 11 18:42:32 niteice: it starts with bootie (boot.bin), which loads linux kernel Jun 11 18:42:49 hm Jun 11 18:42:57 Cool! that client does port forwarding... I can get my pre to do some poor mans vpn to my home network. Jun 11 18:42:58 qemu can boot a linux kernel directly Jun 11 18:43:22 i suppose a better question is "do we know the initial drive configuration" Jun 11 18:43:24 yes, but does it emulate all necessart hw? Jun 11 18:43:28 but that's a bit down the road Jun 11 18:43:34 if we can boot a kernel it's a starting point Jun 11 18:43:44 would a full dump of the sd card work? Jun 11 18:44:12 if it's really using the internal bootloader qemu should be able to boot from sd? Jun 11 18:44:27 at the moment i just untarred the webOS.tar into an ext3 image and specifying it as -sd root.img Jun 11 18:44:32 qemu is telling me no boot device Jun 11 18:44:35 but that sounds a bit off Jun 11 18:45:02 neverr worked with the omap3 version, but it's usually -boot Jun 11 18:45:17 you might need to use /dev/zero as the storage device Jun 11 18:45:28 hm Jun 11 18:45:43 i'm using the maemo branch with the omap3 beagle board Jun 11 18:45:46 since it seems closest Jun 11 18:45:49 there is a uImage somewhere as well Jun 11 18:45:58 included Jun 11 18:46:08 not sure if anyone saw it: Just checked the public log, seems the cross compiling toolchain is already working. Is there anyone documenting it? Jun 11 18:46:11 boot-castle.bin ? Jun 11 18:46:14 you could start with nova-installer-image-castle.uImage Jun 11 18:46:20 it includes a ramdisk Jun 11 18:46:25 hm ok Jun 11 18:46:29 i was going off the full root image Jun 11 18:46:33 pinxue: i don't think anyone is yet Jun 11 18:46:33 but dunno if qemu can boot it Jun 11 18:46:40 root image? Jun 11 18:46:50 you mean just mmcblk0p2? Jun 11 18:46:52 that root image isn't the boot image tho, is it ? the uImage is for booting ? Jun 11 18:46:53 pinxue: i'm going to set up the toolchain tonight, i'll document it if nobody else has by then Jun 11 18:46:55 palm used the standard codesourcery toolchain Jun 11 18:47:01 tmzt: extracting webOS.tar into an ext3 image Jun 11 18:47:12 i don't see why that wouldn't work Jun 11 18:47:13 you don't have a pre? Jun 11 18:47:26 it should work if the kernel is set up first Jun 11 18:47:39 roxfan: ah, thanks Jun 11 18:47:57 i'm used to the more manual method of getting a toolchain up and running Jun 11 18:48:03 cool, thx Jun 11 18:48:04 from when i used to hack my sharp zaurus Jun 11 18:48:17 http://www.codesourcery.com/sgpp/lite/arm Jun 11 18:48:18 what kind of file is nova-installer-image-castle.uImage? Jun 11 18:48:25 uboot image Jun 11 18:48:28 binary boot image Jun 11 18:48:36 hmm Jun 11 18:48:39 non compressed/xip kernel? Jun 11 18:48:47 or some kind of header? Jun 11 18:48:47 it includes kernel and ramdisk Jun 11 18:48:53 that's why I was confused, roxfan, you said that the ramdisk is actually part of it? Jun 11 18:48:57 yes there is a header Jun 11 18:49:02 it's a multi-file image Jun 11 18:49:11 ahh ok Jun 11 18:49:41 chron: ramdisk in this case usually being a cpio.gz Jun 11 18:50:06 anyone have a save-to-disk solution for the browser? Jun 11 18:51:00 actually the ramdisk is ext2 here Jun 11 18:51:44 roxfan: I know this toolchain, so that any armeabi (linux/mac) will work? Jun 11 18:51:53 kernel starts at 8e and is 21D738 bytes, ramdisk starts at 21D804 Jun 11 18:52:29 pinxue: quite probably Jun 11 18:52:47 though i think /lib/ld-linux.so.3 for the loader is still pretty new Jun 11 18:53:02 it is, i don't even have that on my box Jun 11 18:53:23 hi all Jun 11 18:56:08 ld-linux.so.3 is used on arm Jun 11 18:56:46 hmm, looks like it's symlinked to ld-2.5.so Jun 11 18:57:12 so i guess if your toolchain uses that it will still work Jun 11 18:57:32 yeah, I have it linked to ld-2.7.so on a gentoo fs I'm working with (arm) Jun 11 18:57:44 I don't think it matters Jun 11 19:04:38 chrisa, i would love to see a flashlight app. Jun 11 19:05:03 for the flash led? Jun 11 19:05:23 apparently, yes. Jun 11 19:05:38 sos app Jun 11 19:05:39 :D Jun 11 19:08:12 when i try to use novaproxy i use raw connection for the port its listening on with putty but i am not able to get into it...can anyone shed some light? Jun 11 19:08:40 which novaproxy is this? Jun 11 19:09:08 http://github.com/asedeno/novaproxy/blob/1adf3587f9ca76e2e32f88e79c1ea159469a50b7/novaproxy.py Jun 11 19:09:28 How are you configuring PuTTY? Jun 11 19:09:55 Also, is novacomd (The Palm Novacom service) running? Jun 11 19:10:37 from the looks of that, you'd have to restart it if you disconnect the device (different port number on novacomd) Jun 11 19:11:05 i dont believe novacomd is running Jun 11 19:11:06 8023 is the proxy's local port. It looks for the right port to connect to novacom on. Jun 11 19:11:47 Start up the service either using the mmc ui or ``net start "Palm Novacom"'' Jun 11 19:12:04 who is working on the qemu stuff ? Jun 11 19:13:27 ooh the novaproxy thing has figured out a bit of the protocol Jun 11 19:13:29 geist: hmm, you have a point. I should probably move that port fetching bit. Jun 11 19:13:38 so Jun 11 19:13:42 what's new today, #webos-internals? Jun 11 19:14:07 whoa, just noticed Jun 11 19:14:20 Quick question, is there any dumps of the hardware layout for the Pre anywhere (other then the obvious 3430 etc.) Jun 11 19:14:21 w__: if you are there, are you the iphone w___? Jun 11 19:14:29 geist: just enough to be functional. Jun 11 19:14:31 oh hey, i didn't know about the struct.unpack call on python Jun 11 19:14:33 that's pretty nifty Jun 11 19:14:36 DJW, what do you mean ? Jun 11 19:15:23 you mean connections to the other peripherals ? Jun 11 19:15:27 from the CPU's standpoint ? Jun 11 19:15:47 apparently qemu can't handle multiple file uBoot images ? Jun 11 19:17:33 bpadalino|work: I was thinking a breakdown of GPIO's, any info on that sort of stuff, what is the WiFi module etc. (just interested, I do OpenEmbedded and OMAP3 dev). Would have a Pre but I don't think it's going to work to well on GSM in Europe ;). Jun 11 19:18:02 asedeno_work: you outta do a little bit of telnet protocol there to negotiate no buffering so that stuff like vi and whatnot work in it Jun 11 19:18:16 novacom does a bunch of that with the local tty, which is what the -t flag is Jun 11 19:18:20 vi worked fine for me. Jun 11 19:18:27 ah, maybe it's a putty thing Jun 11 19:18:35 i just tried it with telnet command line on linux Jun 11 19:18:41 i think some gpio infos should be listed in procfs Jun 11 19:18:47 and sinc eit doesn't negotiate a real telnet session, it leaves line buffering on Jun 11 19:18:50 and then everything is fail Jun 11 19:19:04 yeah, with PuTTY in raw mode with no local echo or line editing, it behaves okay. Jun 11 19:19:17 right Jun 11 19:19:42 I'll need to check out the telnet rfc first. (patches generally welcome.) Jun 11 19:19:45 but yeah if you wanna be totally fancy, do a little bit of the telnet protocol, it's super simple Jun 11 19:20:00 well, I can't really work on a tool that essentially cracks my own stuff :) Jun 11 19:20:09 that was directed at everyone else. ;) Jun 11 19:20:23 although it's not really cracking it, it's 'interoperating' Jun 11 19:21:22 geist: exactly, all you're doing is allowing for a more open ecosystem >_> Jun 11 19:22:06 DJW, yeah - there has been a little of that ... Jun 11 19:22:13 DJW http://www.rapidrepair.com/guides/Palm-Pre/palm-pre-dissasembly-repair-guide.html Jun 11 19:22:44 well, i tried to make the novacom stuff relatively straightforward and flexible Jun 11 19:22:47 Thanks guys, i'll have a read, I assume Palm have not released any source yet ;) or OE metadata. Jun 11 19:22:49 http://www.phonewreck.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/prebd13.jpg - that too Jun 11 19:22:53 geist: it's a fun game of not being able to contribute what I want until they figure out how to do it on their own Jun 11 19:23:11 DJW, there was a rootfs released with a recovery tool .. Jun 11 19:23:13 but i need to make another pass through the novacomd source today to make sure it's resilient to monkeys jamming strange crap at it Jun 11 19:23:14 it's very fully featured Jun 11 19:23:36 anyone looked into that 10MB ramdisk? Jun 11 19:23:39 chrisa: yeah Jun 11 19:24:06 geist, you've figured out what novacomd does with the usb endpoints ? Jun 11 19:24:15 ... Jun 11 19:24:15 bpadalino|work: in a manner of speaking Jun 11 19:24:19 well yeah Jun 11 19:24:20 I bet he has a good idea. Jun 11 19:24:30 yeah, i think i figured it out Jun 11 19:24:41 hehe Jun 11 19:24:43 * asedeno_work snickers Jun 11 19:24:52 it's been a long day ... Jun 11 19:24:55 i see what you did there :( Jun 11 19:24:59 bpadalino|work: come on dude! keep track Jun 11 19:25:32 Not laughing at you, just enjoying the question. :) Jun 11 19:25:42 :) Jun 11 19:25:56 what the heck, why can I not download a PDF file with the browser? Jun 11 19:25:56 it's gonna be a blast when folks start trying to document the novacom lower level protocols Jun 11 19:26:15 that should work, no? Jun 11 19:26:23 I wonder how much they will now that they have dropbear installed Jun 11 19:26:25 is there anyone working on that? we have access on both sides, why aren't we watching what novacomd is doing? Jun 11 19:26:45 beats me, I keep checking the wiki, hoping someone has started to try to document this stuff Jun 11 19:27:00 I don't have a device/time or I would Jun 11 19:27:36 thpani: i have it open right now, can't figure out exactly what it does Jun 11 19:27:39 I'd be more interested in trying this if I had a mac, since it looks like more tools are available there. Jun 11 19:27:51 only got as far as it uses gadgetfs, but I don't have hardware Jun 11 19:28:20 summatusmentis: that was my suggestion strace -x -v Jun 11 19:28:23 niteice, the boot stuff with qemu ? Jun 11 19:28:28 niteice, how far have you gotten ? Jun 11 19:28:33 not very Jun 11 19:28:52 tmzt: yeh Jun 11 19:28:54 ./qemu-system-arm -m 256 -mtdblock d:/work/webos/resources/webos/boot-castle.bin -kernel d:/work/webos/resources/webos/nova-installer-image-castle.uImage Jun 11 19:28:56 i use that commandline Jun 11 19:29:03 and qemu barfs at me after running for a bit ... Jun 11 19:29:04 is it working? Jun 11 19:29:05 oh Jun 11 19:29:09 i wasn't aware qemu could actually boot a uimage Jun 11 19:29:13 I wouldn't use mtd Jun 11 19:29:13 Unable to load multi-file u-boot images Jun 11 19:29:21 i was under the impression i had to find and extract vmlinuz and the ramdisk Jun 11 19:29:27 i actually got the ramdisk out of the installer uimage Jun 11 19:29:31 there's no point as the pre doesn't use it and it just complicates things Jun 11 19:29:52 i think it's used by the updater as the recieving end of a software update Jun 11 19:30:15 niteice, how did you rip apart the uImage ? Jun 11 19:30:20 you also don't need both the bootloader and the -kernel option, as qemu uses it's own bootloader in that case, depeding on the board source (read the qemu source for omap3) Jun 11 19:30:34 oh, all this qemu stuff is very new to me Jun 11 19:30:43 bpadalino|work: dd if=nova-installer-image-castle.uImage of=installer-kernel skip=142 size=2217784 Jun 11 19:30:52 bpadalino|work: dd if=nova-installer-image-castle.uImage of=installer-ramdisk skip=2217988 bs=1 Jun 11 19:30:57 those kernel figures look wrong though Jun 11 19:31:06 hrmm .. Jun 11 19:31:16 the ramdisk works, as i mentioned, i have it mounted Jun 11 19:31:24 anyone know if dropbear works with Sftp and what port it would be on? Jun 11 19:31:45 Kaerey: only if the sftp server is installed, it's on the same port as ssh Jun 11 19:32:19 I don't know that dropbear has an sftp server... Jun 11 19:32:20 my dd says "size" is no good Jun 11 19:32:25 yeah whoops Jun 11 19:32:36 you can use the openssh version with dropbear Jun 11 19:32:36 replase size=2217784 with count=2217784 bs=1 Jun 11 19:32:53 tmzt: oh, interesting Jun 11 19:33:08 summatusmentis: openssh-sftp-server Jun 11 19:33:14 has anyone tried anything else from optware, other than dropbear? Jun 11 19:33:28 Bartman007: yeah, I thought we were talking about exclusively dropbear Jun 11 19:34:31 yeah, i've installed a number of utilities using optware Jun 11 19:34:38 they all seem to work pretty darn well Jun 11 19:35:33 optware is armel right? Jun 11 19:36:01 yay, homer simpson s.m.r.t is my new notification Jun 11 19:37:07 I just started reading through the wiki again, I'm so glad the hacks are using linux cli :) That's so much nicer than the hex editing I used to have to do on my razr Jun 11 19:37:14 "hacks" Jun 11 19:37:22 s/hacks/modifications/ Jun 11 19:37:52 bpadalino|work: all CLI stuff? Jun 11 19:37:55 well, your razr (non r2) didn't have linux Jun 11 19:38:06 summatusmentis, yes, i have successfully used xinetd(!), tftp-hpa and thttpd and all work just fine. Jun 11 19:38:20 tmzt: clearly, I know it's a step up, it's just exciting to know that it's that easy Jun 11 19:38:51 sure, general purpose operating systems are great Jun 11 19:39:33 my pre is a "box", not a "phone". Jun 11 19:39:35 ok that looks like some sort of kernel image, but file(1) has no idea what to do with it, nor does qemu Jun 11 19:39:53 dreadchicken: we know :) Jun 11 19:40:57 niteice, your dd commands split it up appropriately ? Jun 11 19:41:03 I need a Pre, adly Jun 11 19:41:05 badly* Jun 11 19:41:34 bpadalino|work: i can find the config in the kernel, which suggests it's at least partially right, and as mentioned, the initrd comes out fine Jun 11 19:42:11 interesting Jun 11 19:42:22 what is in a uimage? is there something else you're missing? Jun 11 19:43:00 it's a kernel+initrd wrapped up in a format the bootloader likes Jun 11 19:43:20 it should have everything we need to get something up in a simulator Jun 11 19:44:36 so is the wrapper screwing up your dd values? Jun 11 19:44:52 i think the starting offset was wrong Jun 11 19:44:59 for the kernel ? Jun 11 19:45:03 yeah Jun 11 19:45:18 i'm not sure what a linux on arm image looks like though Jun 11 19:45:21 so i could be wrong Jun 11 19:45:33 but qemu looks like it will only take vmlinu(x|z) Jun 11 19:45:41 linux needs something called mkimage to build uImage's Jun 11 19:45:45 yeah Jun 11 19:45:51 exit Jun 11 19:45:56 that tool doesn't seem to be in the source tree Jun 11 19:45:59 so i'm looking for it Jun 11 19:46:00 or zImage Jun 11 19:46:10 Question, since I'm lost here Jun 11 19:46:17 basically, a traditional kernel, which this is not Jun 11 19:46:23 Why would it be better to run WebOS in QEMU than with the SDK emulator when it comes out? Jun 11 19:46:32 it may give us insight into how the hardware works Jun 11 19:46:49 not to mention an emulator can be more convenient than a physical device for debugging software Jun 11 19:46:50 ah. Jun 11 19:47:11 the emulator looks pretty much like VirtualBox Jun 11 19:47:13 knowing my luck, the official emulator is probably qemu... Jun 11 19:47:34 I'm just waiting on DeviceAnywhere to give me a vUSB Enabled Pre Jun 11 19:47:35 if anyone comes across the gps in your searching i would be very interested. Jun 11 19:47:55 vUSB? Jun 11 19:48:02 yeah Jun 11 19:48:05 virtual USB port Jun 11 19:48:11 over ip? Jun 11 19:48:12 ever heard of deviceanywhere? Jun 11 19:48:17 no Jun 11 19:48:19 they do live device testing over the internet Jun 11 19:48:36 ie you take the client and you can use a phone as if you were right there, but they have to specially modify the phones for it Jun 11 19:48:41 Woo. Anyone have scp/sftp working? Jun 11 19:48:42 and DeviceAnywhere got the Pre already Jun 11 19:48:53 why would they have to modifiy the phones? Jun 11 19:49:02 because you can't just hook a datacable to it to make it work Jun 11 19:49:08 I really really really want to change the damn default alert sound. Jun 11 19:49:16 Ksilebo: scp should be working if you've got dropbear? Jun 11 19:49:17 since, well, it replicates all functions Jun 11 19:49:26 ie I can hit "Slide Device" and the phone will think it got slid up Jun 11 19:49:34 Oh wait right, I couldn't SCP out. Jun 11 19:49:35 oh, ok Jun 11 19:49:43 I can do it from the mac probably. Jun 11 19:49:45 I can think of how to do it in software Jun 11 19:49:51 http://www.breakitdownblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/deviceanywhere-studio-iphone-3g-screenshot.jpg Jun 11 19:49:59 Ksilebo: where were you scp'ing to? Jun 11 19:50:20 I was SSHed into the pre and trying to scp to my mac Jun 11 19:50:31 I'll do it the other way round Jun 11 19:50:40 ok, on my way home now... gonna run tcpdump after a restore during the patch of 1.0.2 Jun 11 19:50:49 try to get that update image location Jun 11 19:51:00 i have scp working just fine, ln -s /opt/bin/dbclient /usr/bin/scp and you can scp in. Jun 11 19:51:02 Ksilebo: you'll need to enable ssh access on the mac Jun 11 19:51:13 summatusmentis: Done already. Jun 11 19:51:17 dreadchicken: Lemme do that. Jun 11 19:51:23 has anyone verified the restore process works flawlessly? Jun 11 19:51:27 it's pretty damn slick and vUSB takes the cake on DeviceAnywhere... enable it in the menu, select "connect data cable" option, and all of a sudden over the 'net "Found New Hardware: " on windows, haha Jun 11 19:51:37 nebula: bpadalino|work had to last night, iirc Jun 11 19:51:54 dreadchicken: Awesome, that worked. Jun 11 19:51:56 hrm, wonder how long it's gonna take Jun 11 19:52:25 missing|No: there are other usb-over-ip implementations, not sure why you need the full usb though Jun 11 19:54:35 meh Jun 11 19:54:51 deviceanywhere supports vUSB on like a handful of devices Jun 11 19:55:04 and they keep killing my demo accounts not even 6 hours from signing up Jun 11 19:55:27 oh, you don't have a pre then? Jun 11 19:55:38 nope Jun 11 19:55:50 can't afford it even if I had the cash Jun 11 19:56:05 makes sense, I thought you where trying to access your own at home or something Jun 11 19:56:10 nah Jun 11 19:56:17 DeviceAnywhere is for developers Jun 11 19:56:31 and the pre... Jun 11 19:56:32 * summatusmentis is waiting for December Jun 11 19:56:32 $300 is steep on-contract for us, $70 a month for a carrier that doesn't work here (all I get is VZ/AT&T) Jun 11 19:56:33 * Sargun is trying to figure out how to get (directfb) frame buffer working Jun 11 19:56:34 any hints? Jun 11 19:56:43 and $600 is too far off for me Jun 11 19:56:48 us? Jun 11 19:56:50 asedeno was able to help me get the pre to connect using localhost VIA usb connection if anyone is having problems with remote dropping the connection with usb Jun 11 19:56:55 It's hard to find anyone selling it for $300 Jun 11 19:57:02 All the stores seem to do instant rebates for $200 Jun 11 19:57:02 cat /dev/urandom > /dev/fb0 Jun 11 19:57:02 on contract I mean for $300 Jun 11 19:57:05 missing|No: Sprint roams on VZ, but you won't get EV-DO Jun 11 19:57:06 oh Jun 11 19:57:10 Sargun: I'm also working on that, I'll let you know if I figure anything out Jun 11 19:57:11 yeah but we're already locked on AT&T Jun 11 19:57:22 And I'm not old enough for a contract, and my family's credit? HA. Jun 11 19:57:26 mdklein_, have you made any progress? Jun 11 19:57:31 missing|No: ah :( Jun 11 19:57:36 g0ow: what do you mean? Jun 11 19:57:37 I'm connected with winSCP go Me! Jun 11 19:57:53 I mean, I'd pay the $150 deposit for Sprint Jun 11 19:57:58 but noooooo, have to be 18 reguardless Jun 11 19:58:09 Woohoo changed that damn sound. Jun 11 19:58:28 Sargun: not really, just started poking over lunch, will mess more after 5 Jun 11 19:58:29 To the Terran Rescued sound from Starcraft. Jun 11 19:58:34 haha Jun 11 19:58:50 All I primarily use as well is an Sprint+HTC Diamond I traded for my old iPod touch... on a verizon prepaid MVNO Jun 11 19:59:04 even though I have a contract'd Nokia on AT&T... that doesn't hold up at all Jun 11 19:59:57 the apps in /var/mft/usr/bin are of most interest to me right now. ted appears to be some sort of hardware test suite... linked to wxwidgets Jun 11 20:00:13 mdklein_: i was wondering what wx was doing Jun 11 20:00:54 missing|No: raph800? or you mean you traded that for the Touch? Jun 11 20:01:01 no Jun 11 20:01:07 I traded my Touch for a Diamond Jun 11 20:01:09 DIAM500 Jun 11 20:01:17 niteice, can you mount the ramdisk you created from your dd commands ? Jun 11 20:01:36 yes Jun 11 20:01:42 missing|No: oh yeah, ok Jun 11 20:01:43 make sure you gunzip it first before trying Jun 11 20:01:52 oh, it's gzipped Jun 11 20:01:57 missing|No: some how I put Touch and HTC together and got Touch Pro Jun 11 20:02:04 heh Jun 11 20:02:10 I'd love a TP to replace this too ;-; Jun 11 20:03:22 It's w240 h480, right? Jun 11 20:03:30 erm w320, h480 Jun 11 20:04:59 Sargun: physically? some framebuffers are the other orientation and mapped in software Jun 11 20:05:23 grr, first time i didn't compile a kernel w/ ext2 support. comes palm Jun 11 20:05:27 -m --dfb:no-vt --dfb:no-cursor --dfb:bg-color=00000000 --dfb:pixelformat=ARGB Jun 11 20:05:39 i feel like the pre's fb would be 320x480, seeing as it spends most of its life in portrait mode Jun 11 20:06:11 is it 16 or 32bit? Jun 11 20:06:19 Hey, would anyone mind helping out? I am getting an error when I run novaproxy.py. It doesn't seem to be getting any data back from the connection to port 6968. Jun 11 20:06:47 bsiegel, 'net stop "palm novacom"' 'net start "palm novacom"' Jun 11 20:07:32 hmm, --dfb:no-vt and --dfb:no-cursor, wonder what happens when those are removed. Jun 11 20:08:01 sargun: tried that, nothing changed :/ The device shows up fine in device manager. Jun 11 20:08:06 i know in theory, but the console might not support a text mode? Jun 11 20:08:17 all of a sudden /sbin got removed from my env path . . Jun 11 20:08:39 update /etc/profile an all is well, but that was weird Jun 11 20:08:51 dreadchicken: I know on old OpenZaurus builds, opie used to run directly on framebuffer, but there were still vt's Jun 11 20:09:37 yay, I crashed my pre Jun 11 20:09:39 dreadchicken: it would have to fbcon enabled, but there is no text mode on framebuffer, not like vga Jun 11 20:13:09 trying to root my pre. I have developer mode enabled, driver and python installed, but I am stuck at the python script part. If I click on the link for talk.py it just displays lines of code within my browser and doesn't appear to do anything with the phone. If I right click, save as then run it, it still doesn't appear to have done anything. Jun 11 20:13:24 any ideas? Jun 11 20:13:38 do you have python installed? Jun 11 20:13:45 dbswoot: save the file and run it in python Jun 11 20:13:51 yes 2.6.2 Jun 11 20:14:16 in idle or command line? Jun 11 20:14:27 well, this is screwed up Jun 11 20:14:29 "Your computer IP address () is located in , but when you first registered for account here, your computer IP address was located in another country." Jun 11 20:14:36 I can't log into my domain management Jun 11 20:16:31 talk.py doesn't look like it does much, but if it succeeded it should have started a telnetd on the Pre. Jun 11 20:17:02 is it still telnet? Jun 11 20:17:08 If i go into python and type "C:\talk.py" on the next line it says ' C:\talk.py' does that mean it worked? Jun 11 20:17:17 you have to manually change to ssh? Jun 11 20:17:34 I should double check. I just use novaproxy these days. Jun 11 20:18:02 yes, I can write directly to the screen Jun 11 20:18:43 yes, talk.py still starts a telnetd. Jun 11 20:18:50 I get could not open connection to the host on port 23: connection failed Jun 11 20:19:07 dbswoot: try novaproxy. Jun 11 20:20:07 do I have to have a login to github to save it? Jun 11 20:20:18 I don't think so. Jun 11 20:20:49 hey guys Jun 11 20:20:58 anyone look at the gesture.js? Jun 11 20:21:00 you can just look at the raw file. Jun 11 20:21:44 is there a way to determine the proper port to use for novaproxy? Rather than calling getport() I mean Jun 11 20:21:56 looking at it now... trying to find the call for the up gesture, i believe it is mouseUpHandler Jun 11 20:22:23 Like for example looking at what ports novacomd.exe has open Jun 11 20:22:24 I believe that is the right way. It's looking at the output of novacomd on port 6968. Jun 11 20:22:51 Indeed, but for some reason novacomd just sends back a null instead of anything useful Jun 11 20:22:58 on my machine at least Jun 11 20:23:01 weird. Jun 11 20:23:20 no one wants to work on making swipe up bring up the launcher? Jun 11 20:23:22 it is running? Jun 11 20:23:33 i want to look at the code off the pre, is the readable source found anywhere else? Jun 11 20:23:58 "the code" Jun 11 20:24:07 dunt dunt daaaaa Jun 11 20:24:10 Yep, novacomd is running and I've tried restarting the service. The novacom device (Pre) shows up fine in device manager, no issues there. Jun 11 20:24:23 opie_: if you download the rom provided by Palm you can get it also Jun 11 20:24:32 you can get the rootfs that is flashed to the Pre Jun 11 20:24:33 bsiegel: What ports does it have open? Jun 11 20:24:36 summatusmentis: i couldn't find it in the doctor Jun 11 20:24:46 i can browse it on the pre no problem Jun 11 20:24:48 I assume it has 6968-6970? Jun 11 20:24:50 but that scares me Jun 11 20:25:09 opie_: resources/webOS.tar Jun 11 20:25:21 sure, i extracted that last night, what next Jun 11 20:25:41 6968-6970, 12311, 64022 Jun 11 20:25:51 it's jus there huh, let me look again Jun 11 20:25:54 sorry, resources/webOS.tar/nova-cust-image-castle.rootfs.tar.gz Jun 11 20:25:58 Ah. Jun 11 20:26:04 opie_: it's in that tarball ^ Jun 11 20:26:05 bsiegel: is your pre in developer mode? Jun 11 20:26:22 It can't find the right port because the right port is not open at all. Jun 11 20:26:31 gotcha, i could have swarn i untar'd that thing, thanks Jun 11 20:26:43 yep Jun 11 20:26:46 sure thing Jun 11 20:26:48 sigh Jun 11 20:27:30 in dev mode, it shows up in device manager as "Palm Novacom" under the "Palm Novacom Modules" category Jun 11 20:28:27 bsiegel: I see all of those ports open, and additionally have 3026, which is what novaproxy connects to. That port is not constant, but 6968 tells you which it is. Jun 11 20:29:18 I have something... as long as the pre is plugged in, novacomd uses up the full CPU power of one core Jun 11 20:29:19 summatusmentis: do we have any thing in the wiki for running js apps i write on the device from launcher? Jun 11 20:29:22 still can't telnet. I wonder if my work's firewall is blocking the port... Jun 11 20:29:22 not sure what it is doing yet Jun 11 20:30:11 firewall Jun 11 20:30:11 lol Jun 11 20:30:40 or if i setup my app.info correctly will it show up in the launcher? Jun 11 20:33:00 flash67: how'd the efnet channel go? Jun 11 20:35:04 opie_: I'm not sure, feel free to check Jun 11 20:36:12 fuck yeah, I got frame buffer Jun 11 20:36:15 kind of Jun 11 20:36:16 i did, after i get this working, hopefully tonight i might put something on the wiki Jun 11 20:36:16 hey one of you guys think oyu can make OCS/LCS work with Webos considering that it uses the same libs as pidgin... http://sourceforge.net/projects/sipe/ Jun 11 20:36:25 Sargun: yeah, watcha go going on ? Jun 11 20:37:01 phillip: a bit early for that Jun 11 20:37:14 ya.. maybe.. Jun 11 20:37:15 lol Jun 11 20:37:54 Sargun: as in, terminal? Jun 11 20:38:49 Sargun, you boot with those options turned off? Jun 11 20:38:51 Well, it's rotated and wrapped around. Jun 11 20:39:10 but, I can play a video via directfb Jun 11 20:39:39 wow, impressive. how you get it there, via boot or by killing apps? Jun 11 20:39:47 killed lunasysmgr Jun 11 20:40:07 i was thinking that exact same thing, but was afraid to. Jun 11 20:40:18 I kill lunasysmgr quite often Jun 11 20:40:49 nothing a battery removal won't fix ;-) Jun 11 20:40:59 You could always restart it Jun 11 20:41:23 i'll need to try, should make my Pre Oracle server faster =p Jun 11 20:43:19 Is there any harm in leaving my pre in dev mode for a while? Jun 11 20:43:38 niteice, still having trouble extracting the proper kernel from the uImage? Jun 11 20:43:39 doesn't dev mode turn the firewall off? Jun 11 20:44:02 chrisa, you've only had access to this thing for a few days Jun 11 20:44:07 "quite often" Jun 11 20:44:15 bpadalino|work: yeah Jun 11 20:44:18 Sargun: *whistle* Jun 11 20:44:19 i haven't looked, but suspect iptables doesn't load rules in dev mode...not sure you want a wide open pre. Jun 11 20:44:20 hey guys... dieter at precentral was willing to host the wiki over there if you guys were interested as well Jun 11 20:44:25 chrisa, you work for Palm? Jun 11 20:44:45 niteice, can qemu work with a straight kernel instead of a zipped one ? Jun 11 20:44:57 gotcha, I won't make a habit of it, but for a little while it should be okay Jun 11 20:45:09 bpadalino|work: yes, it'll boot just about any valid linux kernel Jun 11 20:45:12 niteice, the gzipped kernel starts at 12956 Jun 11 20:45:22 bpadalino|work: hmm i'll try that Jun 11 20:45:36 dd if=nova-installer-image-castle.uImage of=installer-my-kernel bs=1 skip=12956 count=2204828 - try that command ? Jun 11 20:46:26 qemu is still giving me no boot device Jun 11 20:46:33 i think you can have some garbage at the end and gzip will still unpack it just fine ... i went up to 2205032 and gzip just said ignoring garbage Jun 11 20:46:43 hm Jun 11 20:47:00 to my knowledge the uimage as a whole is not gzipped Jun 11 20:47:40 right, but i think there's a vmlinuz image - and that has a gzipped kernel in it .. Jun 11 20:48:13 it has Jun 11 20:48:31 someone just hack the pre to work in canada, then i can start working magic Jun 11 20:48:32 lol Jun 11 20:48:39 I bet Jun 11 20:48:40 whoops .. unexpected EOF with that count Jun 11 20:48:42 yeah Jun 11 20:48:44 i just tried it Jun 11 20:50:25 hey Sargun: so you got directFB running, does it have opengl support. Sorry this is the first i've read about directfb Jun 11 20:53:30 anyone want to help me with gestures/ Jun 11 20:53:35 ? Jun 11 20:54:05 What about them? Jun 11 20:54:16 do we have accelerometer access yet? Jun 11 20:54:27 not that i know of, nor gps that i've heard of. Jun 11 20:54:37 accelerometer would be cool Jun 11 20:54:55 everything is shared on the dbus Jun 11 20:54:58 gps would be cool, gps + cron + wget Jun 11 20:55:22 just think about the stuff you could do with ringer profiles + gps Jun 11 20:55:39 chrisa: i am looking for where the up gesture is located, the redundancy is killing me with that and the center button Jun 11 20:55:49 summatusmentis, dev/input/ Jun 11 20:56:01 touchscreen goes through hidd, don't know much about hidd Jun 11 20:56:02 Sargun: no device :( Jun 11 20:57:11 hello all Jun 11 20:57:17 id prefer the upgesture to mimic CES videos Jun 11 20:57:48 hola dkelson Jun 11 20:57:52 upgesture? Jun 11 20:58:08 anyone figured out what the Java JVM is doing running all the time? Jun 11 20:58:22 dkelson: running java! Jun 11 20:58:40 @chrisa; lol Jun 11 20:58:56 chrisa: that's stupid, why would it be doing that? Jun 11 20:59:04 chrisa, what app(s) and services are running on top of the JVM? Jun 11 20:59:11 summatusmentis: uploading all your data to Sun, of course. Jun 11 20:59:20 summatusmentis: watch some of the original ces youtube videos... up from the gesture area brought up the launcher, even while in a program Jun 11 20:59:23 Bartman007: oh right Jun 11 20:59:24 and draining your battery Jun 11 20:59:31 hold on Jun 11 20:59:54 http://pastie.org/509025 - jps on the device Jun 11 21:00:20 its interesting palm decided to drop that function Jun 11 21:00:32 either there was something wrong with that code or they felt it wasnt intuitive? Jun 11 21:01:07 hmm, LunaSysMgr isn't stripped. Jun 11 21:01:16 darthpooh: i guess it's because it mirrored the down gesture to maximize a card Jun 11 21:01:22 but the button and up gesture do the same thing, hence redundancy Jun 11 21:02:16 zsazs: it's a stretch but sometimes i dont know what palm is thinking... :D Jun 11 21:02:53 hehe, funny note, the guy in the Sprint store flipped out when i showed him 4 pages of apps today Jun 11 21:03:09 i told him it musta came like that Jun 11 21:03:22 It's not nice to confuse the poor salespeople Jun 11 21:03:24 flipped out in a good way? Jun 11 21:03:28 DarthPooh: nice, lol Jun 11 21:03:34 then I got a text message (lightsaber) and I gave the same excuse Jun 11 21:03:53 you changed the text message sound? Jun 11 21:04:08 hm Jun 11 21:04:08 is that what (lightsaber) means? Jun 11 21:04:10 question Jun 11 21:04:11 summatusmentis: he was so excited that i had four launcher pages Jun 11 21:04:19 anyone figure out how to somehow change the Pre, to, say, Cricket? Jun 11 21:04:29 summa: yeah, notification.wav Jun 11 21:04:35 ah, ok Jun 11 21:04:55 since someone is apparently selling how to change a Pre to full cricket service Jun 11 21:04:57 "Solution includes everything to bypass net guard, retrieve SPC, enable WAP. Possible MMS in near future." Jun 11 21:05:08 I highly frickin' doubt that is true Jun 11 21:05:10 I think i want to work on persistant notifications too, but i need to read more of rough cuts to figure out a hook Jun 11 21:06:12 if cricket is CDMA, then i don't see a big problem ? Jun 11 21:06:24 however, no recent Palm device has had persistant notifications Jun 11 21:06:30 it's just I doubt they have a way of reprogramming that stuff already Jun 11 21:06:39 not since... the 650's led i think? maybe it was the 600 Jun 11 21:06:41 such as finding your SPC Jun 11 21:06:49 DarthPooh: launcher pages swipe left and right, like on an iPhone? Jun 11 21:07:08 summa: correct, and up and down for more icons too Jun 11 21:07:11 missing, the whole thing is pretty open - and i think if you know what you're looking for, you can probably do it without an issue Jun 11 21:07:22 DarthPooh: ok, just making sure I understand what you're talking about Jun 11 21:07:38 summa: there are tick marks at the bottom to indicate which page your on instead of dots like the iphone Jun 11 21:07:56 ah, ok. I really want a device Jun 11 21:08:13 GSM? Jun 11 21:08:22 no, just poor, and studying abroad Jun 11 21:08:35 doesn't make sense to buy one now, use it for 3 months, then not use it while abroad Jun 11 21:08:36 ah, balls Jun 11 21:09:05 well, it's a decent lil device for web / music too Jun 11 21:09:19 ive NEVER used a device as an mp3 player consistantly Jun 11 21:09:28 probably not worth the carrier contract Jun 11 21:09:32 Ive used mine in the gym every day this week Jun 11 21:09:44 and i have an iphone too :) Jun 11 21:09:56 I use my phone for MP3s mainly Jun 11 21:10:01 but itunes is a piece of shit. Jun 11 21:10:09 complete garbage Jun 11 21:10:12 bpadalino|work: I've got a SERO contract that they'd be happy to upgrade for me :) Jun 11 21:10:45 summatusmentis: you mean that you'd be happy for them to upgrade :) Jun 11 21:11:04 no, they're trying to get people off of SERO Jun 11 21:11:10 I like SERO, and would prefer to keep it Jun 11 21:11:18 oooooh, i understand now Jun 11 21:11:26 I thought you meant extend and keep your SERO Jun 11 21:11:37 not with a Pre :( Jun 11 21:11:49 not a snowballs chance in hell Jun 11 21:11:58 yeah not gonna happen Jun 11 21:12:04 i was a SERO customer too Jun 11 21:12:07 hell Nick Connor has a better chance of passing my Algebra class this year than you do of that happing Jun 11 21:12:12 there is an everything plus plan now .. Jun 11 21:12:20 sorry, if you knew Nick, it would have been funnier Jun 11 21:12:20 500 minutes, everything else included for $60/mo Jun 11 21:12:24 bpadalino|work: yes, there is, but it's still $60 Jun 11 21:12:29 it's $10 better than normal price ? Jun 11 21:12:36 and it's about $30 better than an iphone plan Jun 11 21:12:40 which I have a hard time justifying for only 1x speeds most of the time Jun 11 21:12:47 ah, i am in a rev a area Jun 11 21:13:02 I go to school in the boonies Jun 11 21:13:07 so we'll see Jun 11 21:13:08 i have the crappy service issue with my device too Jun 11 21:13:26 if i have a strong dB, it won't drain like a champ Jun 11 21:13:42 d'you get evdo? Jun 11 21:13:44 if its weak, it flucuates up and down all the time and drains the battery like a champ Jun 11 21:13:57 in my house? its weak and drains a lot Jun 11 21:13:58 niteice, dd if=nova-installer-image-castle.uImage of=installer-my-kernel.gz bs=1 skip=12956 count=2204861 Jun 11 21:14:16 Anyone try any of the "common" hash-codes listed in com.palm.app.phone\app\models\DialStringParser.js ? Jun 11 21:14:16 outside, strong evdo Jun 11 21:14:54 Two seem to do nothing (including the one marked "interesting"), the other two say "experimental mode: true", but no idea what they do yet Jun 11 21:15:24 do they spell anything? I don't wanna go look Jun 11 21:17:53 Dunno, they are stored as numbers, but they have enum values associated with them Jun 11 21:18:14 Anyone know what the bsl0 interface is? Jun 11 21:18:14 hrm Jun 11 21:18:28 damn ##apps# doesnt do jack either Jun 11 21:18:46 http://pastebin.com/m2e8ce0d5 Jun 11 21:19:24 8378 is test Jun 11 21:19:33 sticky dial pad? intriging Jun 11 21:19:36 intriguing Jun 11 21:19:43 yeah just looked at that Jun 11 21:19:47 wtf ? Jun 11 21:20:02 is the dialpad a card? Jun 11 21:20:27 '8327633696': DialAction.STICKYDIALPAD // useful. Jun 11 21:20:29 yes Jun 11 21:20:38 hrm Jun 11 21:20:46 make the phone card always stay up? Jun 11 21:21:06 * steviebuns1 is curious if anyone has figured out how to add IM protocols yet? Jun 11 21:21:06 on top of other apps? Jun 11 21:21:07 very possible... but i thought it was actually running in the background, just the dialer wasn't Jun 11 21:21:09 or just never close Jun 11 21:21:22 that one did not provide any visual feedback when I tried it Jun 11 21:21:32 nor did the one marked CROTEST Jun 11 21:21:34 but did you close out the card too? Jun 11 21:21:34 can you swipe the dial card away now? Jun 11 21:21:35 it must be, how's it gonna recieve calls Jun 11 21:21:58 steviebuns1: not that I've heard of Jun 11 21:22:07 yes, it still closes Jun 11 21:22:17 Oh Jun 11 21:22:18 cool Jun 11 21:22:26 steveieburns1: didnt think it was a top priority Jun 11 21:22:29 steviebuns1: check out libpurble... Jun 11 21:22:38 libpurple* Jun 11 21:22:46 It autocloses the dialpad when you launch anything else Jun 11 21:22:54 or if you hit the card view button Jun 11 21:22:58 ewww Jun 11 21:23:00 not good Jun 11 21:23:04 so presumably sticky dial pad is on by default Jun 11 21:23:19 yeah... that might hang up on someone Jun 11 21:23:41 DarthPooh, how is that "useful" Jun 11 21:23:54 on the other hand it might keep the call open and make the dialpad disappear Jun 11 21:24:07 try it? Jun 11 21:24:09 sargun, what do you mean? Jun 11 21:24:13 looking through source Jun 11 21:24:24 sticky dial pad? Jun 11 21:24:24 bsiegel, yah... call someone and then open up another card Jun 11 21:24:57 sargun, oic, dunno, figured it would be nice for the dialer to always be around so we could get rid of the one in the launcher Jun 11 21:25:04 There is also a flag set Jun 11 21:25:04 sargun, i wouldnt use it Jun 11 21:25:08 bool poundpoundAppsDialed Jun 11 21:25:16 so presumably that is why ##apps# does nothing Jun 11 21:25:44 in dialpad-assistant.js line 266 shows stickyDialPad Jun 11 21:26:00 and the activity is actually commented out Jun 11 21:26:30 bsiegel, 2777342533 ? Jun 11 21:26:48 has anyone enabled the GPS Accuracy meter on the camera app? Jun 11 21:27:49 ooh that reminds me... Jun 11 21:27:58 DarthPooh: whats that? Jun 11 21:28:07 gotta find in msging app... ENTER to send is annoying the hell outta me Jun 11 21:28:44 It's great being able to find annoyances and fix them. Like making me unable to delete AIM contacts. Jun 11 21:29:29 Opie: How do you do that? Jun 11 21:30:53 eh, i was wrong about poundpoundapps, looks like it just keeps state for ## numbers Jun 11 21:31:40 hmmmm Jun 11 21:31:54 Lurking_Grue: not sure but i see a setting GPS-Accuracy-Meter: disabled in camera-prefs-defaults.json Jun 11 21:31:55 sendmsgfromchatview or sendmsgfromcomposeview Jun 11 21:32:54 ohh, there is a 'sounds' bit to flip in that prefs file also Jun 11 21:33:41 Opie: I am trying the meter setting. Jun 11 21:33:49 let me know if you get anything Jun 11 21:33:55 i'm at work Jun 11 21:34:01 i should be working and not digging in pre code Jun 11 21:34:12 Opie: So am I ;) Jun 11 21:34:20 Arent we all? Jun 11 21:34:26 enabling experimental mode seems to do only one thing with the dialer app: the notification when a call drops is a status notification instead of a new whole window Jun 11 21:34:26 has anyone rebuilt webOS.tar into something else and flashed their pre? Jun 11 21:34:27 i'd assume so Jun 11 21:34:33 but it may do other things throughout the OS Jun 11 21:34:37 I haven't checked yet Jun 11 21:34:59 it wipes the OS i think Jun 11 21:35:08 But I discovered that appAssistant.puckMode is a boolean that tells whether the pre is on the touchstone or not Jun 11 21:35:10 what this https://lcn.palmws.com/ Jun 11 21:35:33 bsiegel: do you have a touchsone? Jun 11 21:35:36 found at /usr/share/accountservices: accountservices.properties Jun 11 21:35:56 edektor, no idea but there's also a https://ps.palmws.com/ Jun 11 21:36:14 No, no touchstone yet Jun 11 21:36:51 That Gps option brings up a colored bar at the top with numbers on it. Jun 11 21:37:01 I believe ps.palmws.com deals with the palm profile stuff as well Jun 11 21:37:04 https://ps.palmws.com/palmcsext/console/pages/LoginPage.iface Jun 11 21:37:09 I would assume the green is showing tha tI am getting good gps signal. Jun 11 21:37:21 lurking, what are you doing ? Jun 11 21:37:30 bpadalino|work: still get an unknown file header but it looks like that's the right offset, strings gives promising output Jun 11 21:37:40 in capture-assistant.js it's referenced on line 120-ish Jun 11 21:37:54 I set GPS-Accuracy-Meter option to enabled in the camer app. Jun 11 21:37:58 bpadalino|work: we are changing the GPS-Accuracy-Meter bit on the camera config Jun 11 21:38:20 https://lcn.palmws.com/location-dir/getdomain/ that gives you a JSON file Jun 11 21:38:23 The number I am getting is 773. Jun 11 21:38:27 ah neat Jun 11 21:38:38 so when you load up the camera, it shows a level for the gps ? Jun 11 21:38:50 seems like it Jun 11 21:38:56 i may have to buy a touchstone for work Jun 11 21:38:59 you need to have both geo-tag and geometer enabled for it to work Jun 11 21:39:05 bpadalino|work: that's what i want to get one for Jun 11 21:39:07 using this as an mp3 player all day long seems to drain the battery relatively quickly Jun 11 21:39:21 Bp: Yeah seems that way. Jun 11 21:39:27 very cool Jun 11 21:39:28 Really? I used it about 6 hours flying back to columbus and I didn't do too bad Jun 11 21:39:32 Bp: bet it was for debugging the geotagging. Jun 11 21:39:40 chrisa, wer eyou in airplane mode ? Jun 11 21:39:53 GeoControl._fixMonitorElem Jun 11 21:39:57 i still have 2 email accounts that it gets Jun 11 21:40:03 On and off. About 50/50 in flights Jun 11 21:40:03 and wifi is turned on Jun 11 21:40:07 I moved about and the bar went to yellow and the number dropped. Jun 11 21:40:10 I think I had like 75% of my battery Jun 11 21:40:22 chrisa, at the end of 6 hours of listening to music ? Jun 11 21:40:44 you guys were trying to get GPS access via java or js? Jun 11 21:40:53 cause with js it looks trivial Jun 11 21:40:53 I'm trying to recall if 75% was after a layover or when I arrived Jun 11 21:41:23 opie_, how about from the command line? Jun 11 21:41:44 root@castle:/root# lsusb Jun 11 21:41:44 Bus 001 Device 006: ID 05c6:3197 Qualcomm, Inc. CDMA Wireless Modem/Phone Jun 11 21:41:44 Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000 Jun 11 21:41:47 i am using swap ... hrm Jun 11 21:41:49 interesting, this is the first chance i've gotten to look at the source. i'm a js dev not a linux guru Jun 11 21:42:13 i don't know if you can call service methods form the command line Jun 11 21:42:16 or how you would Jun 11 21:42:22 luna-send or luna-helper Jun 11 21:42:27 and you feed it a uri Jun 11 21:42:29 is js it wants you to setup a callback Jun 11 21:42:31 and then a json Jun 11 21:43:00 chrisa, my load average with just playing music seems to be ~0.40 Jun 11 21:43:04 which seems a little high ? Jun 11 21:43:04 has anyone rebuilt webos and not just rooted webos? Jun 11 21:43:15 bp: what is it without music? Jun 11 21:43:21 hold Jun 11 21:43:26 bpadalino|work: you can use luna-send to make calls to the gps from command line? Jun 11 21:43:50 opie, possibly! Jun 11 21:43:53 i haven't tried it yet Jun 11 21:44:00 chrisa, oh - i forgot that's why i use the music .. Jun 11 21:44:07 otherwise the wifi goes out Jun 11 21:44:25 You mean because the device goes to sleep? Jun 11 21:44:27 yeah Jun 11 21:44:42 heading out for now, gotta try the rooting procedure from home since it doesn't work here on the laptop Jun 11 21:44:42 I'm sure you guys will figure that part out soon Jun 11 21:45:00 well, i don't mind that it goes out .. Jun 11 21:45:16 i'll use usb when i get home Jun 11 21:45:25 i am very interested in how novacomd works Jun 11 21:45:39 it doesn't go to sleep if it's plugged in, the screen will turn off, but my ssh session remains. Jun 11 21:45:56 yeah, plugged in all sorts of things are different Jun 11 21:45:59 lol i always forget to unmount Jun 11 21:46:04 remount as rw Jun 11 21:46:10 bpadalino|work: so if we could figure out how to get js commands from command-line we could do alot of stuff Jun 11 21:46:34 opie, i'll put it on my list to look at tonight Jun 11 21:46:42 try to figure out luna-send and luna-helper Jun 11 21:47:00 darthpooh, rootfs_open i think is the helper script i've used Jun 11 21:47:38 yeah, i'll poke around with them tonight also... i wish we had an emu working Jun 11 21:48:02 i'm trying to work with niteice to work on an emu as well Jun 11 21:48:15 i'm digging through the qemu source Jun 11 21:48:19 anyone able to use sftp and ssh with novaproxy? Jun 11 21:48:20 it's been so long since i've done embedded linux work :( Jun 11 21:48:22 niteice: not sure if it helps at all but all but dd if=nova-installer-image-castle.uImage of=kernel.img bs=1 count=2217848 skip=76 will give you a valid uboot kernel image (checksum and all)... trying to strip the header off of it results in junk data though... Jun 11 21:48:37 bpadalino, yeah I should use a script Jun 11 21:48:41 I do it all by hand in term Jun 11 21:48:44 bpadalino|work: the issue i'm getting is that qemu complains about no boot device Jun 11 21:48:46 mdklein_, that's what i did Jun 11 21:48:57 I just edited compose_assistant and chatview_assistant Jun 11 21:49:02 niteice, what about the boot-castle.bin as well ? Jun 11 21:49:07 to prevent enter from sending, I think ;) Jun 11 21:49:07 same Jun 11 21:49:13 interesting Jun 11 21:49:16 no boot device Jun 11 21:49:17 pretty much anything with the beagle board does that Jun 11 21:49:48 "No bootable device" ? Jun 11 21:50:02 "qemu: fatal: no boot device found" and a register dump Jun 11 21:50:17 reboot everytime we edit? Jun 11 21:51:00 lol killed it Jun 11 21:51:05 "-sh: md: not found" ???? Jun 11 21:51:24 mkdir ? Jun 11 21:51:28 is it? Jun 11 21:51:39 thanks Jun 11 21:52:13 oh, ha - there is a reboot command in there Jun 11 21:52:25 comment out line 53 of rootfs_open if you don't want to reboot Jun 11 21:52:49 going home Jun 11 21:52:50 bbl Jun 11 21:56:50 has anyone rebuilt webos.tar and flashed their pre? Jun 11 21:57:31 ie has anyone dealt with the nova installer and this tidbit from META-INF/MANIFEST.MF Jun 11 21:57:36 Name: resources/webOS.tar Jun 11 21:57:36 SHA1-Digest: ryzgz7iQtfNgSOYppV5hibcjc9E= Jun 11 21:57:37 bdumm, i don't think so, as people are doing fine by doing modifications live on the device Jun 11 21:57:44 Bdumm: I am not that brave. Jun 11 21:58:21 would anyone know if the nova installer is checking META-INF/MANIFEST.MF with an internal checksum? Jun 11 21:58:25 alright, i think i'll sniff the 1.0.2 update now Jun 11 21:58:26 bdumm: that's due to jarsign; you'd also have to have their private key to do the signatures (some of the other files in that folder) Jun 11 21:58:49 balls Jun 11 21:58:52 that didnt work Jun 11 21:59:04 ie otherwise couldn't you just replace META-INF/MANIFEST.MF with your own webOS.tar SHA1-Digest entry and viola has your own custom pre webOS? Jun 11 21:59:04 Anybody think it's possible to mount a usb drive on the usb port of the pre and mount it? Jun 11 21:59:29 Lurking_Grue: i don't think the pre has usb mass storage drivers Jun 11 21:59:34 bdumm: not unless they are being very silly about the whole update process Jun 11 21:59:35 saurik, so something is checking the META-INF files as well, ie no replacements possible? Jun 11 21:59:40 k Jun 11 22:00:00 bdumm: you can replace it, you just need a key that it accepts when you signit Jun 11 22:00:00 Niteice: Wonder how hard it would be to hack in. Jun 11 22:00:24 saurik, thanks for the bits Jun 11 22:00:55 Lurking_Grue: in theory it could be done with a vanilla 2.6.24 kernel cross-compiled, but i don't recall if that custom version string will do anything Jun 11 22:01:02 Lurking_Grue: it would be neat to try though Jun 11 22:01:34 you would have to fix the version magic but its not too hard Jun 11 22:02:08 nebula, you doing a 1.0.1 to 1.0.2 update? Jun 11 22:02:10 the usb port on the pre looks like a hybrid micro a/micro b connector Jun 11 22:02:20 dreadchicken: yea Jun 11 22:02:26 gotta restore first Jun 11 22:02:29 can you check to see if /var/ persists? Jun 11 22:02:35 enterSubmits: true, Jun 11 22:02:38 which implies it has usb OTG support, which means that it theoretically could play host to a mass storage device Jun 11 22:02:56 this is what is in the chatview-assistant.js Jun 11 22:03:02 i remember seeing some OTG stuff in dmesg Jun 11 22:03:20 dreadchicken, do you think that value = false would prevent enter from being used as send? line 100 Jun 11 22:04:11 hey folks - trying to root my Pre on Vista x64, and it seems nothing is listening on my host PC on port 6968? Jun 11 22:04:23 (I'm getting the 'invalid literal' error...) Jun 11 22:04:36 musicman80: prolly lack of service install Jun 11 22:06:30 CONFIG_USB_STORAGE is not set <- no USB mass storage support, sorry Jun 11 22:06:48 Drat. Jun 11 22:07:02 palm's gpl release is allegedly coming in a few weeks Jun 11 22:07:08 we might have enough then to work with Jun 11 22:07:35 That will be interesting to see Jun 11 22:07:42 Music: I rooted mine under Windows 7 64 but I did it from a vmware install of xp. Jun 11 22:08:07 heh Jun 11 22:08:29 guess I'll have to wait till I get home and try it on XP ... while I'm here, thought I'd toss another question at y'all Jun 11 22:08:53 my IT admin came to me today to complain that my Pre was 'hijacking' our Exchange server's IP Jun 11 22:09:12 via WiFi ... even though I tried setting up (via the Pre GUI) static IP Jun 11 22:09:33 musicman80: Palm uses exchange internally and there are a lot of pres here, your dhcp server souns misconfigured if it's allowing other devices/systems to take that lease Jun 11 22:10:03 you didn't set your pre's IP to be the same as your company's exchange server IP, i hope Jun 11 22:10:19 lol, no ... but somehow the Exchange server was seeing an IP address conflict with my device's MAC as being the offender ... anyone have any reports of this? Jun 11 22:10:23 does anyone know is curl on the pre? Jun 11 22:10:35 It is Jun 11 22:10:44 thanks Jun 11 22:11:11 I was trying to ssh into the Pre to see what ifconfig was reporting internally ... but as far as I am aware, my device's IP was distinct from our Exchange server. Was curious if it might be EAS-related somehow... Jun 11 22:11:28 Music: Sounds like a mistake in the dhcp server config... it shouldn't give out addresses like that ;) Jun 11 22:11:41 chrisa, you seem to know 8 Jun 11 22:11:45 chrisa, a lot Jun 11 22:11:52 chrisa, :) Jun 11 22:12:15 Lurking: I agree :) but my IT admin does not :( wanted me to disable WiFi... which irritates me. Jun 11 22:12:47 how hard would it be to get a sprint pre working on canada providers right now Jun 11 22:12:50 lol Jun 11 22:13:24 Music: Some advantages of being the admin... nobody is complaining about my pre usage.... Mind you I do grunble about people's iphones. Jun 11 22:14:56 kudos for the call duration fix. have been applying it to my treo's since 600 and now on my pre. Jun 11 22:15:00 Lurking: unfortunately there is a huge iPhone fanbase around here ... the Blackberries are actually a minority. I'm the lone Pre user... Jun 11 22:16:11 My only complaint about the iphone was people asking me to open imap to the internet. Jun 11 22:17:00 now that you have a pre, i'm sure you'd like imap open on the internet Jun 11 22:18:28 Zsa: Yeah, I opened it when we had more than one iphone user and I am liking it a bit more now. Jun 11 22:26:43 if (event && Mojo.Char.isEnterKey(event.keyCode)) { Jun 11 22:26:49 I think this is the culprit Jun 11 22:27:35 ok, i can confirm tcpdump works on the ppp0 interface Jun 11 22:27:45 just captured a nice web browsing session from the device Jun 11 22:29:47 anyone have any luck getting python on the pre? Jun 11 22:33:45 anyone have any luck getting python on the pre? Jun 11 22:33:56 i'm not aware of any native apps yet Jun 11 22:34:12 anyone know why mke2fs is in webOS? Jun 11 22:34:29 well they've got the linux apps, I was hoping someone had a port to the arm platform Jun 11 22:34:39 woo i got my nickname back Jun 11 22:34:46 bdumm: a lot of traditional tools are on the image still Jun 11 22:35:11 i think mke2fs is built into busybox Jun 11 22:35:13 not sure Jun 11 22:35:39 I've got a lead on file IO through javascript but the code to get it all up and running is in python Jun 11 22:36:11 ristopher: python should be installable via optware. Jun 11 22:36:22 no, the only 'mk' apps busybox has normally are mkdirm mknod and mktemp Jun 11 22:37:44 ristopher: see the python24, python25, python26, and python30 packages. Jun 11 22:38:07 Bartman007: I swear they weren't there last night. Thanks for the heads up Jun 11 22:38:41 beware of the size though, with deps they may be too large if you aren't using some external mountpoint. Jun 11 22:38:50 gotta run. Jun 11 22:39:06 bartman: thanks for the warning Jun 11 22:42:42 * nebula restores the factory image Jun 11 22:46:14 ok this is badass... Jun 11 22:46:25 eclipse is logging everything thats going on with the recovery tool Jun 11 22:46:27 w00t Jun 11 22:46:59 this could prove to be quite useful Jun 11 22:49:49 (even if my phone bricks) Jun 11 22:50:03 *knocked on wood* Jun 11 22:50:17 you're running the recovery tool inside the eclipse debugger? Jun 11 22:50:23 yep Jun 11 22:50:29 Has anyone enabled mp3 downloading over evdo? Jun 11 22:50:54 says 85% complete Jun 11 22:51:12 in the debug, yet the gui shows 45% ;) Jun 11 22:51:14 bpo2jy, i'll take a look Jun 11 22:51:22 must be a bunch of stages Jun 11 22:52:22 yikes, now it's flashing my modem Jun 11 22:54:59 it's in /com.palm.app.amazonstore_1.0-56_armv7.ipk/data.tar.gz/data.tar/./usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.amazonstore/app/models/download-assistant.js search for "wifi" Jun 11 22:55:46 yep Jun 11 22:55:50 just found that :) Jun 11 22:55:53 what exactly are you doing nebula? Jun 11 22:56:47 restoring the device from inside eclipse Jun 11 22:56:59 looks like it worked Jun 11 22:58:08 bah! the console buffer was 80000 Jun 11 22:58:20 bpo2jy: looks doable, the logic to check if it's on wifi is easy to bypass Jun 11 22:58:23 so i only have 80,000 lines from the restore. Jun 11 22:59:11 you prob need to change the md5 in com.palm.app.amazonstore_1.0-56_armv7.ipk/control.tar.gz/control.tar/./md5sums, the prob the hard part Jun 11 22:59:59 i think that's only checked when the ipk is installed Jun 11 23:01:28 i'd try it, but my pre is still in the sprint store Jun 11 23:01:54 i'll try it tonight when i'm on my mac Jun 11 23:02:18 yay, i feel like i'm buying the pre again... firstboot is showing Jun 11 23:03:36 haha Jun 11 23:03:42 nebula, you had to run restore? Jun 11 23:03:48 chose to Jun 11 23:03:57 so i can tcpdump the 1.0.2 update ;) Jun 11 23:04:17 figured it could be useful Jun 11 23:05:12 it's restoring my palm profile now, hopefully the 1.0.2 update doesn't come with this... Jun 11 23:05:24 (had no choice) Jun 11 23:06:30 cd #webos Jun 11 23:06:40 hah oops Jun 11 23:06:46 :/ Jun 11 23:07:04 barlo: are you using a file-system based irc client or something? Jun 11 23:07:16 mental error Jun 11 23:07:51 it was indeed a mental error, but that would be kind of nifty Jun 11 23:07:56 just a sec Jun 11 23:08:02 I'll show you what I thought you were using Jun 11 23:08:21 http://tools.suckless.org/ii Jun 11 23:08:44 I believe the 1.0.2 update is indeed part of it. I restored last night... once I was able to check it was already there. Jun 11 23:08:58 grrr Jun 11 23:08:59 thats....silly Jun 11 23:09:31 what I posted? Jun 11 23:09:36 yes Jun 11 23:09:40 lol Jun 11 23:09:56 The people that run that website are... different Jun 11 23:09:57 Optimo: where were you 45 minutes ago? :-D Jun 11 23:10:08 you have to really hate irc Jun 11 23:10:09 that's...interesting, I guess it could serve it's purpose for automated uses Jun 11 23:10:25 They make my favorite window manager ever, but ii is a little minimal for me Jun 11 23:10:29 I'll stick with irssi Jun 11 23:10:36 or on OS X, Colloquy Jun 11 23:11:07 http://dwm.suckless.org/ Jun 11 23:12:43 dammit Jun 11 23:12:45 it is 1.0.2 Jun 11 23:12:47 thats stupid Jun 11 23:13:14 yep... I do have an idea, is it possible to create a NEW palm proile? Jun 11 23:13:23 was thinkin that too Jun 11 23:13:29 but it may have came in the jar Jun 11 23:14:15 it's possible, but the palm profile does push a lot back to the phone. Perhaps it pushes the fact that you updated. Jun 11 23:14:31 so, you want me to do that all again ;) Jun 11 23:14:43 I can do it Jun 11 23:14:45 let me go eat supper first! Jun 11 23:14:48 gimmie a sec... Jun 11 23:14:58 ;) I'll be restoring Jun 11 23:15:01 ok, well here's the pkg's you'll need Jun 11 23:15:07 http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/libpcap_1.0.0-2_arm.ipk Jun 11 23:15:07 http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/tcpdump_4.0.0-1_arm.ipk Jun 11 23:15:19 i'll give you the command when you're ready Jun 11 23:15:25 (if 1.0.2 isn't there) Jun 11 23:15:27 brb, food. Jun 11 23:15:29 np, enjoy Jun 11 23:15:44 Anyone found, perhaps a password manager switch for the Pre browser? That would make it worth rooting right there. Jun 11 23:15:54 you can just sniff on a computer that's connected to the same wifi network Jun 11 23:16:14 it wouldn't catch anything on evdo of course Jun 11 23:20:14 ok, pizzafied. back to hacking Jun 11 23:20:47 Jun 11 23:21:01 zsazs: you would need a span port or two eth cards for that, i would think Jun 11 23:21:25 (wifi span port? eh? brain fart.) Jun 11 23:26:57 saurik, chrisa, or others, am i wrong thought wise here, if the pre is in "devel" mode, then it doesn't check the .jar -key etc? Jun 11 23:28:32 Db: A password manager just showed up on the app store. Jun 11 23:31:06 bpadalino bpadalino|work you around? Jun 11 23:31:14 i made progress with booting in qemu Jun 11 23:35:21 got a kernel panic? :) Jun 11 23:35:35 not quite, but i found out how to make it boot Jun 11 23:35:41 niteice: how? Jun 11 23:36:10 make a fat32 image and drop the bootloader in the root directory, name it "mlo" Jun 11 23:36:24 (that's what the maemo code wants, and it's the closest board available) Jun 11 23:36:37 it has to be a full partitioned hard drive image Jun 11 23:36:45 however it's refusing to find the file for some reason Jun 11 23:36:51 i'm still working on it Jun 11 23:36:58 post what you've done in the wiki Jun 11 23:37:13 ok Jun 11 23:37:19 (please) Jun 11 23:38:21 what has niteice done? Jun 11 23:38:29 i found out how to make it boot in qemu Jun 11 23:38:33 however, it is not actually booting Jun 11 23:38:36 oh, good job. Jun 11 23:38:39 which i'm still working on Jun 11 23:39:27 good deal, lets all follow the wiki and try it ourselves Jun 11 23:39:35 once it's posted Jun 11 23:39:51 emu would be priceless Jun 11 23:39:54 http://www.reddit.com/r/ReverseEngineering/comments/8rrtt/ida_v55_is_scheduled_for_tomorrow/ Jun 11 23:40:05 It's 1.0.2, even with another profile... :( Jun 11 23:40:15 hey all Jun 11 23:40:24 grrrr! Jun 11 23:40:39 PlumLoco: guess we'll just have the debug log i have, then the capture ability. Jun 11 23:41:12 did i miss anything fun and exciting? Jun 11 23:41:50 niteice figured out how to make it go on qemu Jun 11 23:41:59 morning Jun 11 23:42:01 I got doom running, but input devices fail Jun 11 23:42:04 anyone able to give me a summary of the last 9 hours before I read the backlog? Jun 11 23:43:06 http://predev.wikidot.com/qemu Jun 11 23:43:12 nice thanks Jun 11 23:43:28 i may patch qemu to make it load the bootloader from a file Jun 11 23:43:31 not sure where to go from here Jun 11 23:43:46 thank you Jun 11 23:43:53 niteice, sweet sweet stuff Jun 11 23:44:54 however, i dont really need qemu Jun 11 23:45:04 :) Jun 11 23:46:50 http://predev.wikidot.com/restoredebug Jun 11 23:47:04 in qemu Jun 11 23:47:05 nice, thanks Jun 11 23:47:09 is boot.bin being loaded? Jun 11 23:47:10 that's from eclipse debugging - entire restore process Jun 11 23:47:14 why does it say boot/bootloader? Jun 11 23:48:16 nebula: so that's debug on the host or the pre? Jun 11 23:48:27 ah, eclipse, so host Jun 11 23:48:31 yup Jun 11 23:48:55 does anyone know what this error means when i am trying ot root my device "No connection could be made because the target machine actively refused it" Jun 11 23:49:25 chron: that's pretty much a direct transcript of my .bash_history, should be followable Jun 11 23:49:35 i tried novaproxy.py and talk.py and same result Jun 11 23:49:43 I love that a phone has LVM running on it Jun 11 23:50:07 I thought running LVM on a Linksys NSLU2 was weird enought ... Jun 11 23:50:30 but it makes a heap of sense for future upgrade flexibility Jun 11 23:51:24 Phil: is the Pre in dev mode? Jun 11 23:51:30 yes Jun 11 23:51:35 Is novacomd running? Jun 11 23:51:51 what do oyu mean by running.. Jun 11 23:52:08 hi all Jun 11 23:52:20 haha Jun 11 23:52:21 ***** BOOTLOADER FLASHING IN PROGRESS! DO NOT LOSE POWER! ***** Jun 11 23:52:25 good call, genius. Jun 11 23:52:47 Is the "Palm Novacom" service running? Look for it in the services mmc, or look for novacomd.exe in the task manager. Jun 11 23:53:00 nebula: you're flashing a bootloader? Jun 11 23:53:01 yeah, I saw that... Jun 11 23:53:17 so, any new developments today, gusie? Jun 11 23:53:19 guise? Jun 11 23:53:22 nebula, you figured out how to flash the pre? Jun 11 23:53:25 no not running Jun 11 23:53:37 Sargun: that's just from the log Jun 11 23:53:41 Can anybody tell me what a .mdn file is and how what do open it with? Jun 11 23:53:45 Okay, it needs to be running, as that's what novaproxy.py and talk.py talk to Jun 11 23:53:54 net start "Palm Novacom" Jun 11 23:54:06 thanks Jun 11 23:54:08 will try Jun 11 23:54:09 Phil: win or mac? Jun 11 23:54:14 win Jun 11 23:54:25 http://www.file-extensions.org/mdn-file-extension Jun 11 23:55:38 phrk: I did some google searching and nothing of importance was found Jun 11 23:55:39 nebula: so that confirms that the doctor reflashes the bootloader and modem firmware. Jun 11 23:55:51 I thing its some type of code file Jun 11 23:56:07 so you wanna be real careful with power supply to the phone when running the doctor ... Jun 11 23:56:42 KING: what's the filename and path of the .mdn file on the Pre in question? Jun 11 23:56:48 rwhitby: cool Jun 11 23:57:02 it does not look like the service is installed.. i ran the installer.. i wonder if it is a windows 7 thing Jun 11 23:57:04 even if the firmware is the same version, too. i saw that Jun 11 23:57:14 it might not like the OS Jun 11 23:57:35 Maybe; I haven't tried this on Windows 7, just XP and Vista (both AMD64) Jun 11 23:57:51 rwhitby: there are some in the webOS\castlecdma_evt1_fw\tmp\castle_cdma folder Jun 11 23:58:13 ya i think that is my problem because i do not see that service installed... Jun 11 23:58:20 KING: bound to be a modem firmware binary of some sort Jun 11 23:58:25 maybe that is something that would go on the wiki Jun 11 23:59:13 rwhitby: OK Jun 11 23:59:33 KING: did you run 'strings' on it? Jun 12 00:00:17 No, I just opened it with a text editor, I got garbage. But there was alot of readable code Jun 12 00:00:29 best way to edit the mdn is prob with qpst Jun 12 00:00:59 @bpo2jy is a mdn used for modem firmware? Jun 12 00:01:30 looks like, iirc qpst can modify mdm files Jun 12 00:01:40 keeping a separate ssh session open with "top" running is a good way to keep the device alive Jun 12 00:01:54 its the way to fix "weak" reception Jun 12 00:02:02 is there a way to test changes without rebooting the device? Jun 12 00:02:23 i dont know if talk ab out qpst is allowed here Jun 12 00:02:36 Note that we've been politely cautioned by Palm yesterday that talking about modifications to modem firmware which enables people to break carrier agreements or terms of service would be over the other side of the line of acceptability from their point of view. Jun 12 00:02:37 is it illegal? Jun 12 00:03:08 that's not something we should talk about in here Jun 12 00:03:08 palm wants to respect sprints TOS or at least act like they do Jun 12 00:03:09 So I'd suggest that unlocking discussion happen in the non-legit channel referenced in the /topic Jun 12 00:03:18 ok, sorry Jun 12 00:03:56 king: jump over there if you want Jun 12 00:05:26 being illegal is not the only litmus test, gentlemen's agreements and professional courtesy play as well. Jun 12 00:05:37 rwhitby: are you saying all discussion of unlocking happen over there? or just that the specifics and discussion of how it might be done should be over there and things like "we know firmware stuff is in this directory, and blah blah blah" Jun 12 00:05:42 ? Jun 12 00:05:56 not that it matters either way, I'm just clarifying policy Jun 12 00:06:15 SWEET! i just killed text messaging! Jun 12 00:06:19 dead I tell you Jun 12 00:06:20 haha Jun 12 00:06:30 I am a noob to irc, how do you switch to /topic? Jun 12 00:06:38 so, I finally caved and am ready to use my windows box to achieve root access, but I'm getting errors on line 48 and 27 and others, seen this yet? Jun 12 00:06:45 lol Jun 12 00:06:56 KING: to go where they are suggesting you need to change server... Jun 12 00:07:04 its like an ugly chick you dont wanna talk to but decided to take out on a date to help out a friend Jun 12 00:07:07 summatusmentis: I would say that identifying which files are involved in flashing the firmware is fine, but discussing how to modify them is not. Jun 12 00:07:16 KING: type /topic, hit enter, it'll show the topic for the channel. There's another channel on another server that is setup for less legitimate stuff Jun 12 00:07:23 and we are not going to put unlocking instructions on our wiki Jun 12 00:07:42 you should put instructions on how to pick up chicks on the wiki... Jun 12 00:07:43 rwhitby: clearly we're not publishing unlocking instructions, I was just checking Jun 12 00:07:52 oh man, I love this phone Jun 12 00:07:54 Darth-Pooh: agreed Jun 12 00:08:06 doesn't tethering violate sprint's tos? Jun 12 00:08:11 yes Jun 12 00:08:12 summatusmentis: and just for completeness, we have no association with the non-legit channel other than pointing peole who don't want to follow our rules to that channel Jun 12 00:08:12 Darth-Pooh: i second that. Jun 12 00:08:23 has everybody seen the test image taken with the camera during the build process stored in /var/log/hwtest/ Jun 12 00:08:25 rwhitby: granted, cool Jun 12 00:08:37 well, i gotta get out the paddles and resuscitate this bitch Jun 12 00:08:41 nice cleanroom, all these guys building phones Jun 12 00:08:43 ewdijkstra: non-PAM tethering violates Sprint's TOS Jun 12 00:08:52 Darth-Pooh: doesn't the pre itself pick up chicks for you? Jun 12 00:09:04 and Sprint has not allowed PAM on the Pre Jun 12 00:09:06 rwhitby, my wife effing hates this thing Jun 12 00:09:14 rwhitby, but chicks dig the phone Jun 12 00:09:41 i like how scm made a vibrator application Jun 12 00:09:42 chicks dig it Jun 12 00:09:47 one of my guys setup a cron job to email every so often that he needs a pre. Jun 12 00:09:57 summatusmentis: doesn that mean we can't discuss (in here) hacking the pre to get around the pam restriction? Jun 12 00:10:13 has anyone got the rooter to work on vista? Jun 12 00:10:35 ewdijkstra: I would say that means we should not be discussing how to get around the pam restriction, but rwhitby gets to decide Jun 12 00:10:39 Darth-Pooh: my girlfriend has sounded like the teacher from Peanuts for days now. Jun 12 00:11:31 my girlfriend loves the pre, but only cause i got her one, too. haha. Jun 12 00:11:45 anyone have a link to a list of the hardware in the pre? haven't seen the specs for the modem yet Jun 12 00:11:48 ewdijkstra: one way to find out is to ask any of the 6 or so palm employees in the channel - I'm sure they will let us know when we get too close to the line Jun 12 00:11:49 my wife likes hers Jun 12 00:12:03 summatusmentis: ok, just wondering... the wiki does seem to imply that getting the pre to tether is one of the stated goals of this group of people Jun 12 00:12:04 plumloco, seriously, my wife could walk out here naked shooting ping pong balls for her coot and i wouldnt notice Jun 12 00:12:10 from* Jun 12 00:12:37 lol Darth-Pooh Jun 12 00:12:47 dreadchicken, mine is waiting for the EOS, she is a centro girl Jun 12 00:12:54 ewdijkstra: I would say everyone kinda wants to know how to tether :) Jun 12 00:13:09 my wife says that i'm off playing with my new mistress when i get a new toy. Jun 12 00:13:12 my girlfriend gave her centro to her mom when i got her the pre. Jun 12 00:13:12 ewdijkstra: the wiki and this channel are not run by the same person, but are in a collaborative group Jun 12 00:13:52 rwhitby: ok, my mistake Jun 12 00:14:07 Darth-Pooh: I might get an EOS too, depending on when it's out, if it's for sprint, and cost Jun 12 00:14:11 technically Palm is just being a sport about the tethering thing... kinda like the brother who doesnt wanna see anyone make fun of their lil special sibling. Jun 12 00:14:15 ewdijkstra: no probs - we will want to work out a common policy Jun 12 00:14:28 i got to page 17 on the "ok ROM Development" thread on precentral... is there anything significant on the next 20+ pages I'd be missing? Jun 12 00:14:31 we're searching for the right grey line at the moment Jun 12 00:14:37 summatusmentis, it's a nice looking device if its real, I like the non-slider aspect. Jun 12 00:14:39 nebula, how did it turn out? Jun 12 00:14:47 Darth-Pooh: I like my Centro a lot Jun 12 00:14:59 dreadchicken: 1.0.2 comes with the restore Jun 12 00:15:07 rwhitby: could we get Palm to maybe delineate some more? Jun 12 00:15:09 ack, no ota update. Jun 12 00:15:28 summatusmentis: I doubt they will set boundaries in advance Jun 12 00:15:30 not their job, they are watchers here...not policy setters. Jun 12 00:15:36 summatusmentis, keyboard is too small for me, the eos looks like its a Treo Pro keyboard layout Jun 12 00:15:47 has anyone elses pre started to become wobbly? it seems my top and bottom piece shake more than it did when i bought it Jun 12 00:15:56 PreGame, indeed Jun 12 00:16:07 battery cover got a little loose here Jun 12 00:16:11 dreadchicken: yeah, best we can hope for from the Palm folk here is polite cautions when we stray too far into the grey area Jun 12 00:16:19 PreGame: seems to be somewhat common Jun 12 00:16:33 when i tap my screen it makes a click noice because it grinds on the bottom piece Jun 12 00:16:34 nebula: so no trace of the update then? Jun 12 00:16:36 rwhitby: actually, what would be cool is if we could be working with Palm to set up either a channel to give back patches, or at least have a liason Jun 12 00:16:45 exactly...much like another group of folks i belong to...we know the lines, even if they aren't drawn in the sand. Jun 12 00:16:47 I feel like I have a BbStorm Jun 12 00:16:54 rwhitby: only what i have in the restore debug log and the download.log Jun 12 00:16:58 from before Jun 12 00:16:59 hell, i have the complicated battery fix Jun 12 00:17:08 rofl Jun 12 00:17:17 did you macgyver that Jun 12 00:17:21 paper is expensive ;) Jun 12 00:17:25 fuckin right i did... Jun 12 00:17:26 summatusmentis: I'm hoping that any patches we create for palm apps can be licensed such that Palm can pick them up and use them directly without needing to deal with viral licenses. Jun 12 00:17:33 watch the battery overheat and catch the paper on fire Jun 12 00:17:36 i threw some gum and a match stick in there for good measure Jun 12 00:17:56 rwhitby, that would be the ideal situation Jun 12 00:17:56 rwhitby: true Jun 12 00:17:59 nebula: maybe we can find someone with 1.0.2 who can trace the update? Jun 12 00:18:21 needs to be 1.0.1 so they will ota the 1.0.2 update. Jun 12 00:18:56 am i missing how to reset the device without actually have to reboot it whenever I restore a file? or change one? Jun 12 00:19:09 anyone know the main file that has the layout of the applications? Jun 12 00:19:15 like for nascar Jun 12 00:20:27 Dang. Sprint Store had no Pre's for exchange today. Oh Well. I will pacify myself by using irc and making my FTP app ready for a quick transition to Pre App Jun 12 00:20:54 hehe, I had fun at the Sprint store today Jun 12 00:21:22 had a CSR look at my pre or something for a second Jun 12 00:21:28 and he noticed 4 launcher pages Jun 12 00:21:37 i told him it was always like that Jun 12 00:21:47 lol Jun 12 00:21:49 he was flipping out Jun 12 00:21:52 haha Jun 12 00:22:11 hehe Jun 12 00:22:22 and my lightsaber notification sound got him too... same deal, said it came with it. Jun 12 00:22:25 Darth-Pooh: should have shown him shoutcast streaming ... Jun 12 00:22:42 i have missed alot in 12 hours... Jun 12 00:22:45 indeed I should have Jun 12 00:23:40 pinxue: Re: toolchain, we use cs08q1armel for optware and it seems to work Jun 12 00:23:45 ha, I vote we leave the poor CSRs alone :-P Jun 12 00:23:56 Question to all you Pre lovers: What do you want in an FTP client for the pre? Jun 12 00:24:05 sftp Jun 12 00:24:27 ^ Jun 12 00:24:37 rwhitby: speaking of toolchain, would you be willing to build OpenAFS/Kerberos if I could come up with a .bb ? (if that's the right file, whatever the bitbake recipe is called) Jun 12 00:24:52 +2 Jun 12 00:25:01 zsazs, pinxue: http://trac.nslu2-linux.org/optware/browser/trunk/platforms/toolchain-cs08q1armel.mk Jun 12 00:25:21 summatusmentis: optware isn't OE-based Jun 12 00:25:22 i am shocked there wasnt an irc program at launch Jun 12 00:25:35 rwhitby: oh? how come? Jun 12 00:25:48 i'm working on an app that will post your gps coords to a specified url at any interval... anyone interested in that? Jun 12 00:25:55 summatusmentis: it pre-dated my involvement with OE. it's based of an old version of the openwrt buildroot Jun 12 00:26:17 rwhitby: oh, so what do you need to get things to build for it? Jun 12 00:26:21 mib_yjjz2t, yes...how are you reading the gps? Jun 12 00:26:30 rwhitby, thanks Jun 12 00:26:39 sftp is out for right now, but coming Jun 12 00:26:44 a geocaching app would be nice! Jun 12 00:26:50 re: mods to fw -- i strongly advise against them, for your own sake Jun 12 00:26:53 summatusmentis: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Optware/AddAPackageToOptware Jun 12 00:27:09 well i was going to see if i can learn from the gps apps that shipped with the phone. Jun 12 00:27:10 you PROBABLY won't brick your radio Jun 12 00:27:24 but you might Jun 12 00:27:26 but i'm thinking file/folder creation/editing/deleting/renaming/copying/new for the first release Jun 12 00:27:33 evernote is free? Jun 12 00:27:41 and add in file editing and uploading later Jun 12 00:27:49 mattwearinghat: thx - we have a goal of no returns to palm or sprint as a result of actions taken based on recipes from this channel or the wiki Jun 12 00:28:24 * rwhitby notes mattwearinghat's palm.com IP address Jun 12 00:28:27 Patrick_R_NBR: i can't speak for everyone, but i stopped using normal FTP on all my servers years ago... it's all sftp/scp now. Jun 12 00:28:30 7 Jun 12 00:28:40 dreadchicken: yeah 7 that we know :-) Jun 12 00:29:06 I'd guess at least 5 others Jun 12 00:29:48 easily... but i think they are getting more coders in here Jun 12 00:29:48 one would expect palm employees using Pre's would want an ssh client app just as much as the rest of us ... Jun 12 00:29:58 btw, i converted to ipkg-opt earlier successfully without incident, documented some notes in the wiki...still needs work. Jun 12 00:30:18 grep for getCurrentPosition to find the call for getting the current gps fix Jun 12 00:30:23 dreadchicken: so you're ipkg-database-non-conflicting now :-) Jun 12 00:30:30 exactly Jun 12 00:30:44 dreadchicken: do you feel "cleaner" ;-) Jun 12 00:30:48 much Jun 12 00:31:24 zsazs thanks :) Jun 12 00:31:27 is there a reason i should install the ipkg repo? Jun 12 00:31:44 1700+ precompiled open source programs Jun 12 00:32:03 http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/ Jun 12 00:32:09 i just did a /opt/bin/ipkg-opt install file a little while ago, was quite handy. Jun 12 00:32:48 and with ipkg-opt you don't run the risk of colliding with a palm ota update. Jun 12 00:32:57 excellent. no returns is good. but other bad mods would give you spotty signal strength, might deprive you of EvDO, etc Jun 12 00:32:59 sorry for this most likely noob question, but does the gps hardware itself calculate and return speed, or is that software level using time between two coords, like direction would be? Jun 12 00:33:01 Anything exciting happen? Jun 12 00:33:18 mattwearinghat: not to meantion violating carrier terms of service Jun 12 00:33:27 so anyone have any idea where my errors in the python script come from? Jun 12 00:33:46 mattwearinghat, you mean on top of the already spotty signal issues?!?! Jun 12 00:34:20 yeah whats up with the signal going in and out is that a pre problem or sprint (new to sprint) Jun 12 00:34:40 rwhitby: Is cs08q1armel running on host or target? Jun 12 00:34:55 pinxue: we cross compile on linux host Jun 12 00:35:10 but it seems that Palm have put binutils at least on target too Jun 12 00:35:12 no clue. don't know enough about what's happening. FWIW i get great signal strength Jun 12 00:35:13 is it spotty signal or spotty number of bars? i've often been at 1 bar and place a call and have it go 4-5 bars, not just on pre. Jun 12 00:35:15 CJ_: my signal has been great on my pre... better than my 700p at my house. i used to get 0 - 1 bar with constant dropped calls.. pre has 3+ solid and no dropped calls yet. Jun 12 00:35:23 mib: I don't know how it works with agps but for a regular standalone gps module the module calculates speeds and spits them on in NMEA 0183 or whatever Jun 12 00:35:59 pinxue: look for the optware-devel package in the optware feed - it's a native toolchain and may just run perfectly on the Pre Jun 12 00:36:06 hopefully it's the same with the agps... i'd assume software lag would make speed calculation that way inaccurate. Jun 12 00:36:19 pinxue: make sure you've loopback mounted /opt from a big file on /media/internal first - you'll be installing *big* ipks Jun 12 00:36:22 well you only get updates once a second with regular gps Jun 12 00:36:27 mib_yjjzt: my voice has been fine as far as i can tell but evdo/data is giving me problems Jun 12 00:36:42 mattwearinghat, is there an accessible bug tracker for enthusiast or such? i have a couple of bugs and a freq i'd like to submit. Jun 12 00:36:47 I think the most any ever do is 5 a second Jun 12 00:37:01 5Hz is the highest i've heard of Jun 12 00:37:16 aubilenon: dang only one per second? the pre seems to at least 2 or 3 per second in gmaps and the sprint nav app. Jun 12 00:37:17 i don't think there is, but i'm a lowly engineer, so i don't know about plans for such things Jun 12 00:37:21 dreadchicken: all I know of are the palm support forums Jun 12 00:37:39 rwhitby, so the repo ipkg's dont have Gui's to them tho... so it isn't like i can install these apps to the device right? Jun 12 00:37:41 http://forums.palm.com/palm/board?board.id=webossoftware Jun 12 00:37:45 rwhitby: thanks for the nice hint. It is just same as I learnt and I can only use it after QEMU running. I don't have Pre yet. Jun 12 00:37:46 rwhitby, yeah...low signal to noise there. Jun 12 00:37:48 I'm pretty sure lots of gps stuff does interpolating and stuff to make it look like more Jun 12 00:38:08 CJ_: my evdo/data coverage has been better than my 700p also... seems to stick in evdo better than my 700p, which seemed to prefer 1x at my house. Jun 12 00:38:23 DarthPooh: correct, these are stock standard linux console programs, no Pre SDK or direct hardware access in them Jun 12 00:38:24 mattwearinghat, you need to really read up on some forums, re: signal fluctuations killing battery life Jun 12 00:38:42 on http://predev.wikidot.com/running-processes, dbus is listed as a "webos specific" process. Dbus is not webos specific Jun 12 00:38:59 I'd edit the wiki but I can't Jun 12 00:39:04 cyanidepoison: I can fix that Jun 12 00:39:05 webos rough cuts says that if you use the startTracking method to subscribe to a series of fixes, they come "about once a second" Jun 12 00:39:28 rwhitby, forgive my linux ignorance, i am learning, slowly... what does that mean for me installing them? i can follow breadcrumbs if need be Jun 12 00:39:45 cyanidepoison: /msg'd you the wiki password Jun 12 00:39:54 yep I see it, thanks Jun 12 00:39:58 yeah, then aubilenon must be right about the apps interpolating to make it feel more realtime. Jun 12 00:40:06 DarthPooh: it means you can run them from the linux command line, but they have no gui interface Jun 12 00:40:23 things like protocol analysers, C compilers, web servers, etc Jun 12 00:40:27 mlb_yjjz2t: alright good to know, i gotta get a replacement pre anyways due to screen discoloration maybe that will fix it Jun 12 00:41:01 who's ready to reverse engineer some novacomd ? Jun 12 00:41:03 mib_yjjz2t: apps may not even be interpolating, just taking a while to update the screen and showing multiple "backlogged" fixes Jun 12 00:41:06 web servers.. hmm. i say we host the wiki from a pre. Jun 12 00:41:11 rwhitby, basically catch your errors before you try to actually to put em on the device... Jun 12 00:41:23 cue the inevitable slashdot jokes... Jun 12 00:41:25 rwhitby, without the Sdk Jun 12 00:41:31 DarthPooh: no, this stuff is not about gui apps Jun 12 00:41:38 zinge: good point. Jun 12 00:41:45 bpadalino: did you see this? http://predev.wikidot.com/qemu Jun 12 00:41:51 been making progress slowly Jun 12 00:41:54 DarthPooh: optware is about treating the Pre as a headless internet-connected linux box Jun 12 00:42:22 rwhitby, oh, gotcha... use it to run said processes. Jun 12 00:42:38 i did not Jun 12 00:42:40 neat Jun 12 00:42:50 DarthPooh: yeah, install and use the types of things you'd use on a Linux server box Jun 12 00:42:54 laptop was a pain and a half but the novaproxy script works great at home Jun 12 00:42:58 :) Jun 12 00:43:48 lol Jun 12 00:43:59 guys, i gotta test +m for a sec... Jun 12 00:44:03 rwhitby, fyi, the link for the public logs for this channel in the channel description includes the ending comma Jun 12 00:44:04 damn I wish I had more time to nerd out over this stuff Jun 12 00:44:28 ok cool. Jun 12 00:44:40 rwhitby, dieter over at precentral.net was more than willing to host the wiki on the website too Jun 12 00:44:48 you're all set Jun 12 00:44:56 why the +m? Jun 12 00:44:58 i believe it came with other perms Jun 12 00:45:02 checking stuff Jun 12 00:45:43 zinge: thx Jun 12 00:46:05 zsazs: in case we get spammers, we need to be able to do that Jun 12 00:46:20 rwhitby, lots of exposure on the site over there Jun 12 00:47:26 DarthPooh: as for the wiki location, emkman set it up, and we have a webos{,-}internals.{org,com,net} domain set that we currently point to it but can redirect elsewhere if the community wishes the wiki to move Jun 12 00:47:50 at the moment, I'm defering to the guy who first set it up - my motto is that those who do the work get to make the decisions Jun 12 00:47:59 lol Jun 12 00:48:09 i am just passing on the info... I dont work for precentral.net Jun 12 00:48:20 DarthPooh: appreciated Jun 12 00:48:20 anything really exciting happen in the last 12 hours or so here? Should I bother reading though the logs to catch up? Jun 12 00:48:36 zinge: dunno, I'm still reading them :-) Jun 12 00:48:43 heh, ok Jun 12 00:48:45 zinge: nebula did a debug log of the doctor working Jun 12 00:48:46 zinge, I almost made a Sprint employee's head explode, other than that... not really Jun 12 00:49:02 :-) okay, sounds good. Thanks Jun 12 00:49:10 http://predev.wikidot.com/restoredebug Jun 12 00:49:50 id love to see a battery test of the centro/800w battery done on the Pre ;0 Jun 12 00:50:06 I have the biggest headache. Jun 12 00:50:53 has anyone found the code for what happens when the computer connects to the pre via usb? Jun 12 00:51:28 HELL YEA! Jun 12 00:51:33 got novacom installed on vista Jun 12 00:52:12 ncie Jun 12 00:52:16 LarrySteeze: some people I know from iPhoneOS work are working on reversing novacomd Jun 12 00:52:47 wait, you couldn't get it working last night PreGame? Jun 12 00:53:06 FYI!!! python.com != python.org Jun 12 00:53:15 pregame, mazel tov Jun 12 00:53:19 haha I made that mistake one time Jun 12 00:53:27 good thing i wasn't at work Jun 12 00:53:37 hey cool, porn. Jun 12 00:53:41 and i _am_ at work. Jun 12 00:53:46 * cdm loves you guys hacking novacom Jun 12 00:53:57 good thing i'm on remote desktop Jun 12 00:53:58 me too Jun 12 00:53:59 that will give us easier usb access Jun 12 00:54:10 LarrySteeze: usr/lib/luna/system/luna-systemui/app/controllers/storagealert-assistant.js might be a good jumping off point Jun 12 00:54:11 cdm: is that against the rules chris? Jun 12 00:54:15 usb access isn't that hard... on a mac ;0 Jun 12 00:54:25 even easier on linux Jun 12 00:54:26 i'm getting a bunch of errors from talk.py .. i think i'm doin' it wrong. Jun 12 00:54:38 geist, indeed Jun 12 00:54:45 DarthPooh: I mean to direct where we want the USB access to go Jun 12 00:55:00 larrysteeze, i know, just breakin' em Jun 12 00:55:05 cdm: any hints? :D Jun 12 00:55:06 for instance, if we want to use the usb port to access the phone's data access vs as a drive Jun 12 00:55:24 mib, what errors? Jun 12 00:55:36 personally, i am getting sick of people asking for a gui to change things Jun 12 00:55:37 cmd: Has your wife been mad that you are at home chatting with us? Jun 12 00:55:40 tmzt: (Backlog Re: optware) optware has been ported to 20+ different devices, with many different architectures (mips, ixp4xx, armel, etc) Jun 12 00:55:46 lol Jun 12 00:55:57 people want a WebOS WYSIWYG? Jun 12 00:56:05 cdm: not to mention shouldn't you be out at the thirsty bear drinking? Jun 12 00:56:16 wasn't the thirsty bear thing last night? Jun 12 00:56:27 it was posted today Jun 12 00:56:29 Messages: peer0_35 and peer1_35 Sent: 'peer0_35' Got: '\xad\xfb\xca\xde\x01\x00\x00\x00\x01\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00E' Jun 12 00:56:49 then another line with Expected: "" (but slightly different) Jun 12 00:56:54 ah...that must have been Apple's that was last night Jun 12 00:56:58 sigh. no beer for me while sick. Jun 12 00:57:10 mib_yjjz2t: Use the novacom.py script for usb Jun 12 00:57:23 beer makes you better Jun 12 00:57:24 I'm hoping cdm or geist finds it in their heart to send a Pre down to .au so I can entertain them even more with novacom protocol reverse engineering ;-) Jun 12 00:57:31 * PreGame snuggles with his Corona Jun 12 00:57:55 * DarthPooh slaps PreGame with a large Trout. Jun 12 00:58:02 i doctored my phone and am only making SMALL changes Jun 12 00:58:04 hehehe, that old gag Jun 12 00:58:14 i noticed after running the old ssh script it SLOWED by phone down ALOT Jun 12 00:58:24 * mib_yjjz2t looks for novacom.py Jun 12 00:58:40 novaproxy.py is what you want, not novacom.py Jun 12 00:58:50 mib_yjjz2t: on the wiki, under rooting Jun 12 00:58:52 ahhh got that. Jun 12 00:58:55 pregame, same here... i am doing silly stuff, like trying to figure out how to change the up gesture and enter to send texts (disable it) Jun 12 00:59:14 well yeah i was there, i have novaproxy, you just said novacom.py so i was thinking i missed something. Jun 12 00:59:21 all this OS hacking is pretty lame. Why pay for a phone and tear it to shreds? Jun 12 00:59:26 pregame, just wish there was a quicker way to test if it worked or borked... resetting the device takes too long sometimes Jun 12 00:59:36 there has to be Jun 12 00:59:46 the jestures in the huge framework file in the mojo directory Jun 12 00:59:47 when you make a change via the touch screen it doens't reset Jun 12 00:59:49 PreGame: educational purposes? Jun 12 00:59:50 anyone see anything related to how they are handling ntlm authentication? Jun 12 00:59:54 there must be a reload command somewhere Jun 12 01:00:05 @pregame what mode does the pre have to be in for novaproxy? Jun 12 01:00:19 LarrySteeze: If i wanted to do it for educational i would just use the VM version of the pre and not the pre itself Jun 12 01:00:27 PreGame: I just want to get tethering working, and I'll be done. Jun 12 01:00:30 westbaer: Re: your comment about the emulator - since the SDK is not released yet we ask the people do not break their NDA by discussing it here. Jun 12 01:00:51 i don't need tethering as my pre does webpages just fine Jun 12 01:01:01 westbaer: unless you just got that info from public screenshots, which is fine. Jun 12 01:01:16 it does, but when I'm at the cabin, a full laptop and keyboard is nice for longer work Jun 12 01:01:42 PreGame: I like finally having a phone that does real web nicely; went to besbuy and showed them that their web price was cheaper on a hd Jun 12 01:01:47 PreGame: we need to learn how to use upstart to restart things Jun 12 01:01:54 btw, i use linux...would should i give novacom a go? Jun 12 01:01:59 pregame, nope, gotta reboot for it Jun 12 01:02:12 jeeze if you're all having so much trouble running silly scripts and such, just run modify the firmware tarball to include all the software and config files you need. edit the control file and change the fstab to mount RW Jun 12 01:02:21 LarrySteeze: have you seen this:http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/185206-possible-tether-work-around.html Jun 12 01:02:33 dreadchicken: there's no linux novacomd available yet Jun 12 01:02:49 Ksilebo: don't I remember you from 4 years ago on nslu2 stuff? Jun 12 01:02:52 I saw it but let me refresh myself as to what exactly it idealized Jun 12 01:02:59 You guys like how Apple's response to the Pre was "We are adding a compass to the iphone" That way when you are lost instead of using the phone to call for help or gps you can play trail guide and go on a journey Jun 12 01:02:59 bpo2jy, which file are you referring to? Jun 12 01:03:14 Not sure it helps any, but looked semi-interesting Jun 12 01:03:28 pregame, hater ;) Jun 12 01:03:37 :P Jun 12 01:03:42 Ah yes, i believe I actually commented in that thread Jun 12 01:04:01 it's all well and good, but it's not the most effecient method, plus it requires a router Jun 12 01:04:13 after I get tethering working, I won't be carrying a router around to tether Jun 12 01:04:19 also the iphone for $99 is only if you are a new customer. If you already have AT&T you have to pay $499 Jun 12 01:04:35 oh, my bad. I thought the last few posts had gotten ad-hoc with no router Jun 12 01:04:46 ad-hoc? Jun 12 01:04:49 well it seemed apple was pointing out that the nice thing about the compass is that it can orient the maps based on your direction, but doesn't gps enabled mapping stuff do that anyways as long as you're moving...? i don't see the value add in the compass.. Jun 12 01:04:54 but Jun 12 01:05:08 i don't plan on using the wifi in it anyway Jun 12 01:05:27 I plan on getting the usb tethering working like I thought I had originally last night Jun 12 01:05:31 mib_yjjz2t: The gps does the same thing, all it requires is you move a degree or 2 so it knows which way you are going Jun 12 01:05:31 it's become a thorn in my side Jun 12 01:05:32 oh, you want to use usb/blutetooth? Jun 12 01:05:34 ok Jun 12 01:05:34 one sec Jun 12 01:05:36 got it Jun 12 01:06:09 i wish the pre had IR, i want to use it as a remote Jun 12 01:06:09 my problem is i work so late at work and start so early Jun 12 01:06:23 it technically does have IR Jun 12 01:06:35 bpo2jy, i have it... but there is no mention of launcher in there Jun 12 01:06:36 the proximity sensor is IR :P Jun 12 01:06:40 PreGame: get a HTPC w/ bluetooth and write a bluetooth remote Jun 12 01:06:40 rwhitby: ah ok, sorry about that. I just read it somewhere. Jun 12 01:06:42 pffft Jun 12 01:07:04 zinge: I have an HTPC with bluetooth Jun 12 01:07:07 in fact Jun 12 01:07:10 Pregame, doesn't matter, palm would make it too weak, it's their MO Jun 12 01:07:12 westbaer: no probs, just wanted to make sure in case you yourself had the SDK Jun 12 01:07:19 usr\palm\frameworks\mojo\builtins Jun 12 01:07:23 that youtube.com video that was on the remote pre hack. What commands was he running to make hte phone ring? Jun 12 01:07:28 DarthPooh: my Zodiac makes a great remote Jun 12 01:07:37 nope, pre doesn't really make sense in europe =P Jun 12 01:07:41 PreGame: I was wondering that too Jun 12 01:07:46 hello Jun 12 01:07:48 I use it as my primary computer now lol...I'm IRC'ing and cracking on a 46" TV Jun 12 01:08:00 Im having probs rooting the pre Jun 12 01:08:08 bpo2jy, ok i will check those 3 files out Jun 12 01:08:11 Synergy: what problems are you running into? Jun 12 01:08:11 Synergy2: wha pronlems? Jun 12 01:08:27 first question, did you turn dev mode on? Jun 12 01:08:35 wow, I can't type well while eating Jun 12 01:08:38 yes Jun 12 01:08:42 palminitframework Jun 12 01:08:42 westbaer: did you get a chance to look at novacomd? Jun 12 01:08:43 zinge, yeah that IR port could beam a hole in someone's head from 3 miles away Jun 12 01:08:54 i followed the instructions Jun 12 01:09:04 bpo2jy, or just that one lol, thanks Jun 12 01:09:12 Synergy2: what os? Jun 12 01:09:14 but when i open talk.py it just opens then closes Jun 12 01:09:27 Why don't you just program a wifi remote for the HTPC? Jun 12 01:09:56 rwhitby: did you end up finding out how updates are called? Jun 12 01:10:00 cyanidepoison: nope, not yet Jun 12 01:10:05 Synergy2: run it from the command prompy and see what output it's throwing. Jun 12 01:10:09 wireless89: nope Jun 12 01:10:10 prompt* Jun 12 01:10:14 bummer Jun 12 01:10:16 have you heard if posixninja has? Jun 12 01:10:22 nah Jun 12 01:10:27 we need someone who doesn't have the 1.0.2 update to run tcpdump when they do the update Jun 12 01:10:53 yeah Jun 12 01:10:58 can anyone roll back? Jun 12 01:11:10 wireless89: the doctor installs 1.0.2 Jun 12 01:11:15 ah i see Jun 12 01:11:16 we need a factory fresh device Jun 12 01:11:19 did anyone try to roll back with ##rtn? Jun 12 01:11:20 i'm running novaproxy.py, and i try to ssh into localhost:8023, but it just says "connecting to novacom running on port 4810" and hangs.. Jun 12 01:11:44 and you installed python from http://www.python.com right? Jun 12 01:11:46 bpo2jy, wow that file is a beast... no finds for launcher... gonna be a while before I find shit Jun 12 01:11:50 err... i mean .org Jun 12 01:11:52 LarrySteeze: lol Jun 12 01:11:53 lol Jun 12 01:11:54 lol Jun 12 01:12:08 rwhitby: either that or someone ask palm to roll out another update and let us know 10 minutes beforehand Jun 12 01:12:16 at least its high def? Jun 12 01:12:25 supposedly another OTA update is coming out tomorrow Jun 12 01:12:32 so says you Jun 12 01:12:40 LarrySteeze: where'd you hear that? Jun 12 01:12:46 sprint store Jun 12 01:12:47 LIES Jun 12 01:12:51 bahahahaaha Jun 12 01:12:54 but the guy didn't sound like he knew what i was talking about Jun 12 01:12:56 psst: just figure out how to disable OTA updates and then enable them after you know that one has come out Jun 12 01:13:01 they just meant tomorrow or later Jun 12 01:13:12 yeah, they mean "not today" Jun 12 01:13:14 I asked him about the splotches on my screen too Jun 12 01:13:24 and he said "it's supposed to be like that" Jun 12 01:13:25 he said wipe em off? Jun 12 01:13:37 no...it's discoloration...i got one of the bad screens. Jun 12 01:13:43 "just take the phone you can cancel before 30 days, and there will be many updates by then" Jun 12 01:13:53 LarrySteeze, i told people earlier, a sprint rep saw my 4 launcher pages and flipped. Jun 12 01:14:05 lol Jun 12 01:14:06 anyone have any ideas why novaproxy.py is hanging for me? Jun 12 01:14:11 you have four launcher pages? Jun 12 01:14:17 you added one? Jun 12 01:14:17 4 launcher pages? Jun 12 01:14:31 LarrySteeze, I was gonna add 4 but i dont have enough apps for all that Jun 12 01:14:33 there are insturctions on the wiki for it I think Jun 12 01:14:36 eerrrr 5 Jun 12 01:14:39 yeah... Jun 12 01:14:42 there is... Jun 12 01:14:42 or the forum somewhere... Jun 12 01:14:43 lol Jun 12 01:15:03 http://predev.wikidot.com/hidden-features Jun 12 01:15:12 easy edit Jun 12 01:15:23 but watch out, it might break evdo Jun 12 01:15:39 ... still isnt working hmmm Jun 12 01:15:50 why would it berak evdo Jun 12 01:15:55 exactly Jun 12 01:16:02 talk.py just opens, few words come and closes Jun 12 01:16:15 synergy2, what os? Jun 12 01:16:37 sorry not techy person but if ur refering to computers OS its windows vista Jun 12 01:16:51 wait Jun 12 01:16:52 and you should be using the entire repo... not just the talk.py file, you need them all Jun 12 01:16:53 and 1.02 version of webOS on phone Jun 12 01:16:54 synergy Jun 12 01:16:58 o Jun 12 01:17:01 I have a quick question for you Jun 12 01:17:08 sure Jun 12 01:17:17 If you are not a tech person, are you sure you want to root your phone? Jun 12 01:17:17 if you aren't techy, you might not want to do this Jun 12 01:17:26 i was wondering the same exact thing, Larry Jun 12 01:17:26 do you know what rooting your phone gives you the potential to do? Jun 12 01:17:35 kind of Jun 12 01:17:42 I guess the best question to ask you is Jun 12 01:17:47 I heard it allows you to eat 5500 calories and not get fat, per day. Jun 12 01:17:54 * mib_yjjz2t rolls eyes Jun 12 01:17:59 lol Jun 12 01:18:14 mib, everyone's a critic Jun 12 01:18:18 yay i'm rooted. Jun 12 01:18:20 Would you be comfortable editing ini files and the registry on your computer? Jun 12 01:18:31 or system command files Jun 12 01:18:39 without reading guides, just doing it yourself Jun 12 01:19:00 would you be comfortable choosing the right size for the pagefile on your windows machine? Jun 12 01:19:04 I am, i'm h/\)(0r Jun 12 01:19:05 i just say if they want help bricking their phone, let em go for it... then when they need help running the doctor... we won't know what they're talking about :-p Jun 12 01:19:30 heh Jun 12 01:19:49 ... Jun 12 01:19:56 ive done it before Jun 12 01:20:01 where did all the mods go? Jun 12 01:20:05 but with guides ofcourseute Jun 12 01:20:15 Just remember Jun 12 01:20:21 there isn't really a guide to what we're doing Jun 12 01:20:24 we're MAKING the guide Jun 12 01:20:27 Guides are for people without sudo rm -rf * Jun 12 01:20:28 by the way, did anyone notice that one of the twitter apps in the catalog on launch day is open source? i found it on github day 2. Jun 12 01:20:33 yup and i wanna be right there while u do it Jun 12 01:20:37 spaz is open source Jun 12 01:20:50 I like tweed better anyways Jun 12 01:21:09 indeed Jun 12 01:21:12 PreGame: did you ever find out what the guy int he video was using to play the ringtones? I tried using mp3blaster from ipkg but was having touble pressing F1 through PuTTy Jun 12 01:21:21 Oh...I got some strange traffic today by the way Jun 12 01:21:23 Synergy2: here's the guidelines: if you ask a question here that could have been answered with Google, then they chance of getting any answers reduces for you exponentially. If you follow that, then feel free to ask anything that's on-topic. Jun 12 01:21:32 yeah, i just used spaz as a reference of where to start on my app before all this rooting stuff happened. Jun 12 01:21:45 zinge: it should be in the channel logs Jun 12 01:21:47 rwhitby, what is the meaning of life? Jun 12 01:21:51 since we're all going to die of old age before the sdk is out. Jun 12 01:21:55 mib: rooting started on Sunday :P Jun 12 01:22:11 sdk is out...just not for us :-( Jun 12 01:22:14 okay, thanks rwhitby, didn't know it was mentioned here Jun 12 01:22:23 zinge: first day I think Jun 12 01:22:33 http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos-internals/ Jun 12 01:22:35 lol LarrySteeze, you're one of those people that doesn't let anyone be vague in what they say. Jun 12 01:22:40 Sudo Make me a Sandwich. Jun 12 01:22:43 i'm just giving crap Jun 12 01:22:49 joking around Jun 12 01:22:55 i know lol Jun 12 01:22:56 I got some strange twitter traffic today Jun 12 01:23:01 I'll find it. I was reading through this morning's stuff Jun 12 01:23:16 it turns out my hash codes were posted on the predev site and some people were twittering it lol Jun 12 01:23:29 I didn't even know they were posted Jun 12 01:23:39 yeah, your famous! Jun 12 01:23:45 hey I got a crazy question for you, after you have ssh setup, how do you kill the telnet access created by talk.py, or is that disabled when not in developer mode? Jun 12 01:23:48 that's the first thing i said Jun 12 01:23:59 "yay...i'm internet famous...again...:-(" Jun 12 01:24:07 ive had my 15 megs of fame Jun 12 01:24:14 lol Jun 12 01:24:22 overrated Jun 12 01:24:26 there are a few more pre-specific ones in the source for the dialer but seems I can't edit the wiki :/ Jun 12 01:24:29 I wasn't asking for it Jun 12 01:24:31 found it. "aplay Jun 12 01:24:35 " was what I was looking for Jun 12 01:24:43 i don't know if i should make a tonzr (my free ringtone site) app or the gps app first... hmm. Jun 12 01:24:45 bsiegel: we tested them, they don't appear to do anything at the moment Jun 12 01:24:57 ack Jun 12 01:24:59 i gtg eat Jun 12 01:24:59 brb Jun 12 01:25:04 LarrySteeze: The sticky one does work, its just dumb Jun 12 01:25:14 yeah, we did some stuff earlier, nothing major Jun 12 01:25:21 and the experimental mode ones also do something very minor Jun 12 01:25:55 * DarthPooh thinks his wife watching Real Housewives of NJ has got to be the gayest thing ever Jun 12 01:26:09 yea the NJ chicks are ungly Jun 12 01:26:16 now the house wives of OC was GOOD! Jun 12 01:26:23 MILF Jun 12 01:26:28 she gets me to watch the NY too Jun 12 01:26:35 those bitches are mean! Jun 12 01:26:37 bsiegel: I'll look at them again, and if I get feedback from them, I'll add them Jun 12 01:26:50 I had found those hash codes from the source Jun 12 01:26:50 I tried allowing AIM contacts to be deleted in the controller for the contacts app, but sadly it appears to work but then the contact is still there :/ Jun 12 01:27:11 did you reboot? Jun 12 01:27:14 * Patrick_R_NBR is re-writing to much code. Brain sploded Jun 12 01:27:15 they might be gone after reboot Jun 12 01:27:17 what is the main template file used by the applications? Jun 12 01:27:18 DarthPooh: the what-est thing ever? Jun 12 01:27:19 LarrySteeze: the stickydialer one makes the dialer app disappear when it loses focus Jun 12 01:27:38 i'm gonna make a rotary dial application Jun 12 01:27:45 summatusmentis, your right, it doesnt look like a real word Jun 12 01:28:01 LarrySteeze: The two that enable expermentalmode make a dropped call notification show up in the tray, instead of displaying a full card view showing that the call dropped Jun 12 01:28:21 what files are you editing when editing files? Jun 12 01:28:29 alright, i'll take a look when I finish eating, I'm getting yelled at by the gf Jun 12 01:28:36 DarthPooh: I don't mean to jump down your throat, I'd prefer it if you didn't use the word gay that way, please. Jun 12 01:28:51 summatusmentis, indeed, and noted. Jun 12 01:29:02 lol i love how almost every developer (myself included) seems to get the urge to make functionally useless apps for phones.. ie rotary dialer. Jun 12 01:29:19 DarthPooh: thanks :) Jun 12 01:29:22 Next up, a fake stabler app! Jun 12 01:29:38 np Jun 12 01:29:56 mib_yjjz2t: hey now, the iPod grew from the idea of a rotary dialer >_> Jun 12 01:30:08 lol true... Jun 12 01:30:25 i'm going to clone the windows fish tank screen saver, but make it so you can shake it up and the water / fish move around. Jun 12 01:30:45 make it shake so they die Jun 12 01:30:47 and i'll do it all with... jQuery and canvas, lol. Jun 12 01:31:13 maybe if canvas wasn't so buggy on this thing. Jun 12 01:31:25 i am shocked more apps havent been released... Jun 12 01:31:34 i need a game damnit Jun 12 01:31:42 i could see my girlfriend walking around trying to hold her pre all stable so her fishies don't die. Jun 12 01:31:54 lol Jun 12 01:32:18 Wow, who'd have thought that the Sprint link in the launcher would be harder to hide than a real app... Jun 12 01:32:24 DarthPooh: what was the time frame for early SDK release and the Pre being available Jun 12 01:32:34 neither visible: false nor removable: true seem to work Jun 12 01:32:37 bsiegel: I coulda guessed that :0 Jun 12 01:32:41 a game.. psh we have speed brain... and a connect 4 demo.. what else could you possibly want? Jun 12 01:33:19 I've been addicted to this game on my iPod Touch where you have to slide bricks around to try and get the orange one out the hole Jun 12 01:33:35 summatusmentis, they wanted the SDK released six months prior, but they couldnt get it done and ready by then Jun 12 01:34:02 oh, like that game traffic? Jun 12 01:34:10 DarthPooh: well, the timeframe between the two events may have been too short Jun 12 01:34:15 I don't know what traffic is Jun 12 01:34:26 bsiegel: I remember that sprint link being in the luna launchpad directory somewhere Jun 12 01:34:37 who here is making lots of mods to the app source code on the device, and wants to pioneer a means to managing that so that the mods can be distributed and you can un-mod before OTA update and reapply after OTA update? Jun 12 01:34:59 requirements are that you need to have ipkg-opt set up with loopback file Jun 12 01:35:19 rwhitby: i thought about it, but was hoping someone else would do it, haha. Jun 12 01:35:23 and preferably know a little about subversion and quilt Jun 12 01:35:49 don't know enough about any of the above, sorry Jun 12 01:35:50 zinge: I found it as a "link" under /usr/palm/applications, but modifying the stuff there did nothing. I'll try looking there, thanks Jun 12 01:35:52 rwhitby: can we distribute modes? Jun 12 01:35:55 mods* Jun 12 01:36:12 summatusmentis: I don't see why patches can't be distributed Jun 12 01:36:27 oh, patches, alright, that's different :) Jun 12 01:36:28 i thought they were doing patches on the forums... no? Jun 12 01:37:13 I think we need clarification from Palm whether they consider the 3 lines of context in a unified diff to be copyright infringement or not, but we can still do patches without context if required. Jun 12 01:37:46 rwhitby: I mean vs. armeb on nslu Jun 12 01:38:00 this is so much nicer than the iphone dev scene... Jun 12 01:38:06 i doubt it would hold up if they did.. but i think we should still respect it if they don't like the idea. Jun 12 01:38:13 tmzt: depends on the optware feed - we support both armel and armeb - the cs08q1armel feed is armel Jun 12 01:38:18 rwhitby: context is a definite grey area Jun 12 01:38:27 rwhitby: Seriously? You are aware that the DMCA allows 10% of a movie to be copied without infringing correct? The context in a patch is much less than that. No offense but this group seems really paranoid. Jun 12 01:39:00 ripper: with good reason Jun 12 01:39:03 What we're doing is nothing more than what you can do by viewing the source in a standard web browser. Jun 12 01:39:19 ripper: note that i said respect... i don't think anyone could get "busted" for it by a long shot. Jun 12 01:39:19 palm knew what they were getting into Jun 12 01:39:35 ripper: we want to maintain a good relationship with Palm, and what we're doing is currently through legitimate channels Jun 12 01:39:55 what summatusmentis said. Jun 12 01:40:01 so far, Palm seems to be mostly ok with it, but we don't want to step on people's toes Jun 12 01:40:03 we don't wanna piss palm off. Jun 12 01:40:10 right, we'll get much further having a good, legit relationship with palm. Jun 12 01:40:15 coz they can pwn what we've got right now Jun 12 01:40:26 and sue the pants off of anyone Jun 12 01:40:30 rwhitby, and no, i think that would be fine and not "infringement" Jun 12 01:40:39 im sure palm has been contributing here all along not just lurking Jun 12 01:40:50 bpo2jy: no, they haven't Jun 12 01:40:52 they can't Jun 12 01:41:02 or, not beyond what people are basically already at Jun 12 01:41:16 no they didnt they thought were dumb enough to not open a jar file Jun 12 01:41:19 three letters: N. D. A. Jun 12 01:41:24 sorry to interrupt; anyone know why I wouldn't be getting any sound when running aplay through the novaproxy usb? Jun 12 01:41:45 no dummies allowed? Jun 12 01:42:05 hrr hrr :-P Jun 12 01:42:14 all palm employees here will be bound by a strict employment contract which is very likely to prevent them disclosing publicly any information that is not already public. Jun 12 01:42:18 zinge: mixer settings? Jun 12 01:42:31 its more like they want to see the ALL holes before they plug it up Jun 12 01:42:32 bpo2jy: I highly doubt they thought we were dumb enough, but they're not saying anything Jun 12 01:42:39 tmzt: do I have to change anything? Jun 12 01:42:55 also the sense I'm getting is that they intentionally left it mostly open Jun 12 01:43:04 you shouldn't, can you play sounds in the ui? Jun 12 01:43:14 lets see if upupdowndown still works after next update Jun 12 01:43:32 yup, swipe sounds and music still work Jun 12 01:43:32 summatusmentis: we don't have statement to that affect do we? Jun 12 01:43:47 tmzt: not officially Jun 12 01:43:55 not sure. what device/card are you using? Jun 12 01:43:55 tmzt: ==rw Jun 12 01:44:00 ==rwhitby * Jun 12 01:44:15 headers on the files? Jun 12 01:44:21 summatusmentis, it would havebeen a waste of time for them to try to try to close it up anyways Jun 12 01:44:25 They should have left it open. Alienating the community that built most of the tools they built webos on top of would be a huge mistake. I just think the worry seems to go too far. If we're going to worry about context in patch files, then we should be way more worried about using webos in the name of this forum. Jun 12 01:44:29 tmzt: and I don't expect to until Palm releases source/SDK, and even then, probably not Jun 12 01:44:44 encryption would have slowed the device and once it's hacked it wouldnt have mattered Jun 12 01:44:49 tmzt: I'm just in on the novaproxy shell and typing aplay in the command line Jun 12 01:44:52 DarthPooh: someone was saying a lot of people were on the iPhone staff at Apple, and watched the first rooting of the iPhone also Jun 12 01:45:00 with the /usr/palm/sounds wavs Jun 12 01:45:07 zinge: I know, I meant alsa card Jun 12 01:45:14 DarthPooh: Encryption also would have made it illegal per DMCA. Jun 12 01:45:28 ripper: the name of this channel was run discussed before creation Jun 12 01:45:29 ripper, not their own code Jun 12 01:45:42 ripper: furthermore, we don't have license to their code, technically Jun 12 01:45:45 summatusmentis, i bet Jun 12 01:45:55 no, I mean for us to unencrypt their own code would have been illegall Jun 12 01:45:57 ripper: my reason for stating things like context in this channel is to give the palm folks a chance to warn us of possible problems before we hit them. Jun 12 01:46:14 they have done so before regarding code copyright Jun 12 01:46:40 tmzt: oh. here's where I go "huh?" I'm just trying to get something to play out the speakers from the command line, and aplay was what they used on here a few days ago Jun 12 01:46:52 you want your first notice that you might be crossing the line to be via a /msg or via a lawyer? Jun 12 01:46:58 tmzt:do I need to set a specific device for it use? Jun 12 01:46:59 rwhitby, what have they shot down thus far? Jun 12 01:47:02 dreadchicken: exactly Jun 12 01:47:15 DarthPooh: "shot down" is strong Jun 12 01:47:17 what would it have helped? Jun 12 01:47:39 lol Jun 12 01:47:58 DarthPooh: we have been politely reminded in this channel that posting modified palm source code files in their entirety is a violation of palm copyright Jun 12 01:48:08 if they start overcomplaining theyll be ignored, the threat is bigger than anything they can actually do Jun 12 01:48:27 rwhitby, but telling someone to edit line such and such is not I am assuming. Jun 12 01:48:41 bpo2jy: "anything they can actually do"? are you saying you're willing to risk being sued? Jun 12 01:48:41 DarthPooh: they've not said anything about that, so we're assuming it's ok Jun 12 01:48:49 rwhitby: solution is to start using patch and diff Jun 12 01:49:05 cyanidepoison: that's what he's leaning towards, I believe Jun 12 01:49:14 cyanidepoison: exactly, and the open question is whether palm will get upset by 3 lines of context diff on unified diffs Jun 12 01:49:27 rwhitby, speaking of which, I still haven't found the gesture up for launcher yet Jun 12 01:49:30 tmzt: just ran aplay in verbose and it says ALSA <-> PulseAudio PCM I/O Plugin. Does that help any? Jun 12 01:49:30 without large chunks of code being posted they cant sue Jun 12 01:49:37 the question is not whether it's legal or not, it's whether our relationship with palm will be hurt by it or not Jun 12 01:49:48 honestly, a context diff isn't that different than saying (file xxx: line yyy) Jun 12 01:50:06 for those who don't care about the relationship with palm, there is an alternate channel on efnet listed in the /topic Jun 12 01:50:10 cyanidepoison, where was that irecovery file you linked to the other day ? Jun 12 01:50:25 what is to be gained by this relationship other than being restricted, besides they cant talk about thing bec of theyre own NDA Jun 12 01:50:32 http://github.com/westbaer/irecovery/blob/829e98eb0752ece6172efaf3619aac3257b7fc32/irecovery.c Jun 12 01:50:39 sorry about that Jun 12 01:50:43 i'm back now Jun 12 01:50:56 bpo2jy: the polite cautions so far have been gain enough for me Jun 12 01:50:56 bpo2jy: they can sue over whatever they want Jun 12 01:50:58 I'd like someone to try it again and change the product and vendor IDs. This time make sure you run it as root. Jun 12 01:50:59 i think excerpts are protected, as long as they are used for context, not solely for infringment. ianal Jun 12 01:51:09 bsiegel: are you still there? Jun 12 01:51:21 LarrySteeze: yep Jun 12 01:51:22 is synergy2 still active? Jun 12 01:51:33 oh he left Jun 12 01:51:41 thanks Jun 12 01:51:46 bsiegel: what hash codes were you talking about? Jun 12 01:51:48 bpo2jy: furthermore, at least my goals from this relationship entail us being able to give back to Palm, and creating an open source community out of it Jun 12 01:52:00 Novaprozy does not like vista x64. Dang Jun 12 01:52:08 Novaproxy* Jun 12 01:52:12 patrick: you can get it to work Jun 12 01:52:19 wait Jun 12 01:52:27 you mean novaproxy not novacom Jun 12 01:52:35 bpo2jy: unless discussions are held in private on tor, palm are going to be able to monitor what goes on anyway. we prefer to make that easy for them, and to make sure everyone knows that it is happening, in order to have this group self-police the legitimate discussion Jun 12 01:52:41 after rooting the pre, can you access the shell/terminal from the phone itself? Jun 12 01:52:42 doing the ssh and get an erro on the dropbear install Jun 12 01:53:06 I really just want an ssh client on the phone Jun 12 01:53:08 djk, what error? Jun 12 01:53:12 psykoz: we don't have a terminal app yet Jun 12 01:53:13 I think tmzt is budy.. anyone else have any suggestions on why I'm not getting any sound running aplay over novaproxy? Jun 12 01:53:16 bussy* Jun 12 01:53:20 yes, I mean Novaproxy. I'm lazy and want the easy way out. Jun 12 01:53:22 rwhitby, 'k :) thanks Jun 12 01:53:23 in theory that would be great, but its not going to happen, webos is their profit center for the next 10 years and they are not going to let anyone near it Jun 12 01:53:25 dropbear.postinst returned 1 Jun 12 01:53:33 novacom is easy Jun 12 01:53:37 you mounted rw? Jun 12 01:53:39 Has anyone found a way to remove the launcher icon in quicklaunch? Jun 12 01:53:45 bpo2jy: you don't have any way of knowing that Jun 12 01:53:53 the necessary drivers are included in the jar Jun 12 01:53:57 bpo2jy: we'll see. there are two channels, each set up on the opposite side of that line. we'll see which is most successful. Jun 12 01:54:05 I copied the definitions to pastebin here: http://pastebin.com/m2e8ce0d5 Jun 12 01:54:14 people get to choose where they contribute Jun 12 01:54:17 djk, you mounted rw? Jun 12 01:54:18 '8327633696': DialAction.STICKYDIALPAD Jun 12 01:54:19 ripper: I haven't tried, but it's certainly easy. Jun 12 01:54:21 thought so and the pack is on the /tmp Jun 12 01:54:52 ./tmp is on tmpfs Jun 12 01:55:03 This is on by default, turning it off makes the dialing app disappear when it loses focus Jun 12 01:55:10 Ok, if I can't follow the Wiki Instructions on getting root then alot of people are going to have trouble with them Jun 12 01:55:16 I've been trying, but I can't find out where that launcher is. It's different from all the others. Jun 12 01:55:17 I havent tested to see if the call stays active Jun 12 01:55:30 lets see how much palm locksdown in the next update Jun 12 01:55:42 and them it might be too late Jun 12 01:55:46 djk, rootfs_open -w Jun 12 01:55:47 bsiegel: it didn't work for me. Jun 12 01:55:52 I just tried it. Jun 12 01:55:55 '6346843277': DialAction.CDTEST, and '2355273667': DialAction.PPTEST, Jun 12 01:56:10 thats interesting; arecord works and picks op the mike Jun 12 01:56:14 thats kinda fun Jun 12 01:56:18 I may try and write a voice memo app Jun 12 01:56:23 let me relook at the app, hold on Jun 12 01:56:23 anything exciting happen? Jun 12 01:56:32 bpo2jy: indeed - if palm want to lock it down, then it will be a good sign to us that they are not prepared to accept our contributions, and they will be the worse for it. Jun 12 01:56:49 These both set a variable called experimentalmode, the only thing this does is, if true, when a call drops, instead of showing a full card saying call dropped, a notification is displayed at the notification area Jun 12 01:57:01 ShinAli: the roof was on fire, not too much other than that Jun 12 01:57:09 personally? I feel like if palm wanted to lock it down, they would've initially Jun 12 01:57:12 what File am I running from http://svn.saurik.com/repos/webos-dev/trunk/rooter/? talk.py, right? Jun 12 01:57:27 LarrySteeze: For stickydialpad, I had to quit the dialpad ones Jun 12 01:57:44 and it ONLY works when its in the dial pad (the numbers pad) not the contacts list or call historu Jun 12 01:57:47 *history Jun 12 01:57:52 Does anyone have a cgi solution yet? Iw as thinking about tinyhttp along with an artibrary execution script. Then hit it via webkit Jun 12 01:57:53 *ones = once Jun 12 01:57:54 dreadchicken: still getting error Jun 12 01:57:57 I personally am interested in a constructive relationship between palm and low-level developers, not an arms race. Jun 12 01:57:59 based on what i've seen in the os image, these devs know what the hell they're doing.. if they wanted to lock it down, they would have. simple as that. Jun 12 01:58:01 bpadalino: change line 50 of irecovery.c to the relevant information from lsusb if you didn't figure that out Jun 12 01:58:07 summatusmentis: agreed, they kind of made it a little easy by providing novaterm in webos doctor Jun 12 01:58:13 palm has always used their customers a beta testers, so now they are taking it a step further using them as developers too, but its not about being nice, its abut a small company getting away the easy way. but they are very very protective over their IP Jun 12 01:58:16 i have to do something to my vm first .. Jun 12 01:58:18 djk, ls /opt/sbin/dropbear Jun 12 01:58:21 aha Jun 12 01:58:30 bsiegel: you are absolutely correct Jun 12 01:58:30 for some reason my eth1 interface isn't DHCPing Jun 12 01:58:32 ShinAli: they may need novaterm :) Jun 12 01:58:46 holy crap it actually ran Jun 12 01:58:46 i rebooted dialpad and it worked Jun 12 01:58:56 rwhitby: I agree Jun 12 01:59:05 yeah but i don't think they expect sprint reps or regular joes with a messed up pre to need them Jun 12 01:59:16 dreadchicken: yep its there so the error that the file existed? Jun 12 01:59:18 i don't like stickydialpad...but it's there Jun 12 01:59:23 webos doctor explaining things slowly and being user friendly Jun 12 01:59:23 djk, probably. Jun 12 01:59:38 has it changed from last night? Jun 12 01:59:38 djk, next step Jun 12 01:59:46 ShinAli: Doctor may use novaterm, that's what I meant Jun 12 01:59:46 bpo2jy: it will be interesting to see what Palm's motives are in the long term Jun 12 01:59:57 oh it doesn't Jun 12 01:59:59 djk, slightly. Jun 12 02:00:00 rwhitby: sell to dell? Jun 12 02:00:03 in this channel, we're assuming they want to cooperate. Jun 12 02:00:06 palm doesnt care much about the lowlevel because its not their software its mostely open source to start with, and its not the focus of webos, the mojo stuff is what they need to hide and unfortunately for them the only way to hide js is by locking it down Jun 12 02:00:17 i've examined webos doctor for awhile and it really doesn't use the terminal Jun 12 02:00:17 LarrySteeze: Have you had a chance to see what happens if you are in a call at the dialpad, and you switch to another app or press the center button Jun 12 02:00:22 I hope that one SDK is out, we can get more info in the long term Jun 12 02:00:22 figured it out; volume was down in music app. dumb Jun 12 02:00:32 ok, figured that out Jun 12 02:00:33 jeeze Jun 12 02:00:35 I have not, did you test it? Jun 12 02:01:04 doesn't picking HTML/CSS/Javascript as a platform suggest at least some open-ness? :-P Jun 12 02:01:08 bpo2jy: why would they need to hide mojo? that's specifically the part they _dont_ want to hide... Jun 12 02:01:10 i hope im wrong, but if they brought anything from apple, you can be sure they brought the "screw you" too Jun 12 02:01:23 I know that when you toss the card while in a call, it ends the call Jun 12 02:01:24 LarrySteeze: No not yet Jun 12 02:01:32 bpo2jy: you're very welcome to continue to express your opinions here, but be aware that we are not going to change the foundations on which this particular channel has been created. Jun 12 02:01:32 anyone had any luck installing novacomd in win7? Jun 12 02:01:36 hold on i'll test Jun 12 02:01:40 psykoz: yes Jun 12 02:01:45 they want to hide the code of mojo, sure they will open many of the methods and such, but the actuall code? Jun 12 02:01:51 here's a weird one.. in a 3-way call, can you end the call with just one of the two calls? Jun 12 02:01:58 I keep getting insufficient access to c:\windows\winsxs\policies Jun 12 02:01:59 i ran into that issue earlier today. Jun 12 02:02:10 bpo2jy: it's web pages! Jun 12 02:02:15 mib_yjjz2t, no, it's a cdma issue. Jun 12 02:02:16 hmm Jun 12 02:02:19 bpo2jy: the cat is already out of the bag - the full source code for mojo is available to anyone with a java decompiler Jun 12 02:02:22 stickydialpad just stopped working for me Jun 12 02:02:29 bpo2jy: why would you want to provide source code to a a program that's been compiled? Jun 12 02:02:33 like any api they tell you how to use it but not how it works, did you look thru the framework? look howmuch of it is marked /*private Jun 12 02:02:42 bpadalino: have you gotten anywhere? Jun 12 02:02:48 the js is not compiled Jun 12 02:02:48 damn cdma issues, that, and no evdo while in a call... *sigh* Jun 12 02:02:53 still installing libusb and trying to get it to compiel Jun 12 02:02:59 palm isn't an open source company. Jun 12 02:03:05 no, they're not Jun 12 02:03:06 well, the DO in EVDO means "data only" Jun 12 02:03:16 who knows what type of company the new palm is ... Jun 12 02:03:21 ShinAli: doesn't mean they can't become one, should they choose to Jun 12 02:03:30 we'll find out what kind over the next few months. Jun 12 02:03:36 java is not javascript, and to compile the js (and encrpyt it too) will take a major toll of execution speed Jun 12 02:04:03 summatusmentis: yes but why expect full source code to compiled programs on a device where it isn't meant for open modifications? Jun 12 02:04:04 ah, i see what you mean by ipkg-opt Jun 12 02:04:11 makes a lot of sense Jun 12 02:04:15 that's what i'm trying to get at Jun 12 02:04:31 ShinAli: granted. Some people always expect full source code :) Jun 12 02:04:32 nebula, i have prelim notes up on the ipkg page...to give an idea of what it does. Jun 12 02:04:35 I dunno if you guys are looking into it much but Palm really just wants to sell a bunch of phones at a reasonable profit Jun 12 02:04:36 alright, finally got it to compile Jun 12 02:04:46 dreadchicken: yea thats what i was just reading Jun 12 02:04:52 ./iRecovery -s Jun 12 02:04:59 bpo2jy: okay now i think you don't know what you're talking about and just complaining for no reason Jun 12 02:05:03 psykoz: as does any company Jun 12 02:05:05 Your kidding me... telnet does not like copy+paste on vista Jun 12 02:05:07 so I hardly think they really care for webOS as much as you think, it does enhance the hardware but they're looking to sell hardware ;) Jun 12 02:05:12 the mojo framework a piece of art, seriously state of the art and futureproof, if it catchs on its a gold mine... Jun 12 02:06:10 bpadalino: does it crash or throw an error? Jun 12 02:06:22 they are looking to sell an os more than anything, because ppl need functionality more then they need hardware, in terms of pure hardware they dont offer anything unique enough Jun 12 02:06:40 It's a gold mine because it will allow palm to sell more phones. As long as the only phones running webOS are palm's, I doubt palm will care about much else. Jun 12 02:06:46 who here (other than me) is using vi? Jun 12 02:06:50 it's not that they're trying to offer anything unique, they're trying to wedge into the feature phone market Jun 12 02:06:54 me Jun 12 02:06:59 LarrySteeze: I use vi, but not on a Pre Jun 12 02:07:02 if you look at the price of the Pixie/EOS phone subsidized that is going to be a free phone Jun 12 02:07:05 LarrySteeze: why? Jun 12 02:07:12 i'm just curious Jun 12 02:07:14 ok, at this point I'm going to ask the discussion about Palm company strategy with webOS to move to #webos please Jun 12 02:07:16 so telcos will be handing them out like candy pretty much Jun 12 02:07:16 I'm getting connection denied Jun 12 02:07:22 LarrySteeze, me Jun 12 02:07:26 I was trying to explain the advantages of vi to someone and they didn't get it Jun 12 02:07:31 rwhitby: fair 'nuff Jun 12 02:07:33 vi++ Jun 12 02:07:40 it's a unix box, you use vi Jun 12 02:07:41 ya Jun 12 02:07:46 don't know why anyone would not use vi? Jun 12 02:07:48 cyanidepoison: error -1 when setting configuration Jun 12 02:07:51 cause it is there Jun 12 02:07:53 is that what you were seeing the other day ? Jun 12 02:07:53 i actually technically use vim Jun 12 02:07:55 psykoz: that's called vim >_> Jun 12 02:07:58 did you run as root? Jun 12 02:08:02 ha! Jun 12 02:08:03 good call Jun 12 02:08:11 and there are a lot of people who don't know how to use vi Jun 12 02:08:16 now error -16 Jun 12 02:08:17 I installed nano cause I'm a noob who still hasn't mastered using vi quickly. Jun 12 02:08:28 Does anyone have a well to run shell commands via the phone yet? I was thinking tinyhttp with a cgi script? Jun 12 02:08:29 how can you not know how to use vi? Jun 12 02:08:31 * rwhitby uses emacs on most embedded devices he owns ... Jun 12 02:08:31 it's intuitive Jun 12 02:08:31 hmmm webosdev doesnt exist on efnet Jun 12 02:08:41 doyou have strace installed? Jun 12 02:08:44 vi is pretty much meant for doing things in the least keystrokes as possible Jun 12 02:08:44 I thought about learning it, then I decided to start learning emacs instead Jun 12 02:08:45 fixed: "and there are a lot of people who shouldn't be rooting their pre" Jun 12 02:08:54 DarthPooh: really? Jun 12 02:08:54 I don't have anything for/against vim, its just what I've always used Jun 12 02:08:54 well, key reach really Jun 12 02:08:56 dreadchicken: :-P Jun 12 02:09:00 woohoo, i'm ssh'd in over my evdo IP.. something about doing that is just weird. lol Jun 12 02:09:02 never learned anything else Jun 12 02:09:09 mib Jun 12 02:09:12 bpadalino: do you have strace installed? Jun 12 02:09:17 mib_yjjz2t, indeed...pretty cool, eh? Jun 12 02:09:20 rwhitby, yah, I am logged into efnet as well via chatzilla Jun 12 02:09:22 doesn't that scare you just a bit? Jun 12 02:09:41 flash67: where is your efnet channel? Jun 12 02:09:51 this technobabble is giving me a headache, but it's so thoroughly fascinating.... Jun 12 02:09:55 not as much as my web server actually serving over evdo...was cute to see. Jun 12 02:10:02 EBUSY .. device or resource busy Jun 12 02:10:05 DarthPooh: flash67 was the person who asked people to go there Jun 12 02:10:16 i showed it to a palm person and he was humored. Jun 12 02:10:28 bpadalino: are you on Linux or OS X? Jun 12 02:10:39 linux in a VM in os x Jun 12 02:10:48 but linux sees it Jun 12 02:10:58 LarrySteeze: I'm a vim advocate too :p Jun 12 02:11:02 yeah. That's the error we got yesterday Jun 12 02:11:14 what does setconfiguration do ? Jun 12 02:11:21 sweet Jun 12 02:11:22 destorys the universe Jun 12 02:11:26 dreadchicken: what webserver were you sing? Jun 12 02:11:28 damn. initctl start webos-sshenabler is not working Jun 12 02:11:32 zinge, thttpd Jun 12 02:11:33 i find this comment in the phone app funny Jun 12 02:11:35 VI works and works well... Jun 12 02:11:35 its just a part of the process of opening the device file for read/write Jun 12 02:11:35 //picture = "images/incoming-thumbnail-placeholder.png"; Jun 12 02:11:38 thanks Jun 12 02:11:42 err Jun 12 02:11:52 it won't post :S Jun 12 02:11:55 try killing novacomd Jun 12 02:11:56 anyone got any good reference doc links to ARMv7 arch on hand? Jun 12 02:11:57 ./ TODO FIXME HACK FOR 'GLIMPSE OF WHERE THINGS CURRENTLY STAND' Jun 12 02:11:57 //picture = "images/incoming-thumbnail-placeholder.png"; Jun 12 02:12:00 * DarthPooh thinks Larry has a weird sense of humor Jun 12 02:12:08 zinge, put your docroot on /var/www or /media/internal so you can edit it with a ro / Jun 12 02:12:12 on your mac that is Jun 12 02:12:12 lol Jun 12 02:12:15 Can anyone point me to where the configuration for launcher apps is? Where they store information like their location and such? I want to work on getting rid of the launcher button in quick launch. Jun 12 02:12:26 okay Jun 12 02:12:30 dreadchicken: doesn't it go to /opt/var/www which is writeable? Jun 12 02:12:38 (if using loopback mount) Jun 12 02:12:54 rwhitby, right...but for people not to loopback yet that's ro Jun 12 02:13:08 another reason why we need to get everyone on loopback ;-) Jun 12 02:13:11 rwhitby, it might default to /var/www actually...i don't remember. Jun 12 02:13:27 I haven't set up ipkg-opt and loopback yet, still on yesterdays instructions :-) Jun 12 02:13:40 oh Jun 12 02:13:42 snap Jun 12 02:13:45 ssh on evdo Jun 12 02:13:49 I'm planning on wiping the phone later today or tommorow so I'm not worried Jun 12 02:14:03 bpadalino: did you try it after killing novacomd in OS X? Jun 12 02:14:07 oy, my wifi is slow. Is there a way to have ipkg give you a progress bar on the download? Jun 12 02:14:11 honestly, i don't know why anyone would be excited about SSH'ing into evdo ip Jun 12 02:14:13 I lied. SSH on 1x Jun 12 02:14:26 I get no wifi in my office area Jun 12 02:14:32 and I certainly hope that you are applying passwords to your root backdoors Jun 12 02:14:37 yeah, it'd be more exciting ssh'ing from your phone to something else Jun 12 02:14:40 it is fairly painless to convert and do ipkg-opt at the same time. my notes are in the wiki, hoping someone will come in behind me and give some input. Jun 12 02:14:50 cyanidepoison: let me double check it's shutdown Jun 12 02:15:08 yeah, novacomd is not running Jun 12 02:15:21 hm. Jun 12 02:15:27 I can see it now Jun 12 02:15:32 want me to run throught the wiki instructions and see if everything works for me/I can figure it out? Jun 12 02:15:33 psykoz: on my 700p, i ssh'd to my servers every day. Jun 12 02:15:39 LarrySteeze, that's why i was so adament about using ssh, you can disallow root logins and even without doing anything they are disallowed because root has no passwd. Jun 12 02:15:41 i used ssh on my phone more than my pc, almost. Jun 12 02:16:03 zinge: yes please Jun 12 02:16:11 zinge, be careful...unless you are ready to start over with re-rooting you can break yourself. Jun 12 02:16:21 dreadchicken: I can just see people not doing so Jun 12 02:16:23 I don't mind Jun 12 02:16:23 i'm hoping dkelson will take a look. Jun 12 02:16:25 zinge: people who follow wiki instructions to the letter and report issues are a most valuable resource Jun 12 02:16:39 LarrySteeze, they don't have a choice if they use dropbear. Jun 12 02:16:48 this usb programming seems ... easy enough ? Jun 12 02:16:49 is everyone using dropbear? Jun 12 02:16:52 lets see if i can figure it out better.. Jun 12 02:16:59 and rely less on this iphone shenanigans Jun 12 02:17:00 they aren't real instructions yet, i didn't create the loopback. Jun 12 02:17:05 LarrySteeze: if I had a Pre I would have openssh installed Jun 12 02:17:06 I don't mind breaking things and starting over; like I said I'm exchanging phone for one without dead pixels tomorrow. Jun 12 02:17:22 maybe it's just me Jun 12 02:17:32 but i'm just concerned with the number of newbies doing this Jun 12 02:17:33 cool, give it a go and insert dkelson's loopback instructions at 2a) Jun 12 02:17:42 ok Jun 12 02:17:58 and by newbies i mean people with ZERO experience, some not even knowing what ftp is Jun 12 02:18:13 zinge, you will need a working telnetd and preferable logged in via it cause you will kill your dropbear when you ipkg remove it so you can ipkg-opt install dropbear. Jun 12 02:18:31 bpadalino: I'll whip up a tiny little thing to just open the device and end Jun 12 02:18:33 LarrySteeze: we provide public information, and we know that the doctor can fix anything we've done so far, so what newbies do with that info is not our responsibility Jun 12 02:18:37 that'll be easier to work with Jun 12 02:18:40 ok Jun 12 02:18:47 yeah, I know Jun 12 02:18:53 okay. I'm on novaproxy right now, I don't remember if I left telnet open or not Jun 12 02:18:54 can you have it iterate through the devices and look for BULK endpoints ? Jun 12 02:19:01 I'm quite experienced with working with that program, though ;) Jun 12 02:19:07 heh Jun 12 02:19:11 LarrySteeze: I've been through exactly this 4 years ago with nslu2-linux.org Jun 12 02:19:17 if they don't know what ftp is I doubt they know what root means so why would they even be trying? Jun 12 02:19:18 you can use anything but dropbear/ssh cause that is what will get killed when you convert to ipkg-opt Jun 12 02:19:18 bulk? Jun 12 02:19:22 bulk Jun 12 02:19:27 ok Jun 12 02:19:27 rwhitby: can you blame me though? Jun 12 02:19:30 that's what novacomd opens and claims Jun 12 02:19:33 2 bulk endpoints Jun 12 02:19:34 LarrySteeze: no Jun 12 02:19:35 one in, one out Jun 12 02:19:46 I'll go look at the libusb api Jun 12 02:19:51 [2009/6/11 21:28:45] palm_device_added(): Found a device! Jun 12 02:19:51 [2009/6/11 21:28:45] start_device: found 1 configurations Jun 12 02:19:52 [2009/6/11 21:28:45] found interface: 0x1f03 Jun 12 02:19:54 [2009/6/11 21:28:45] start_device_io: grabbing BULK IN pipe index 1, number 4 Jun 12 02:19:55 I'm just more worried about the PM's Help me run the doctor! I followed the instructions perfect and my phone won't boot! Jun 12 02:19:56 [2009/6/11 21:28:45] start_device_io: grabbing BULK OUT pipe index 2, number 3 Jun 12 02:19:58 [2009/6/11 21:28:45] start_device_io: skipping pipe 3 because it is not a bulk pipe Jun 12 02:20:20 LarrySteeze: you just have to be firm but polite with newbies that if they come with questions that can be answered on google then they will be ignored. nothing personal, it's a time allocation issue. Jun 12 02:20:32 lol Jun 12 02:20:41 well really, i wouldn't be answering them anyways Jun 12 02:20:50 i'm too busy with the limited time i have Jun 12 02:20:56 dreadchicken: just to make sure; you want me to follow the "WARNING: NEW METHOD" instructions, correct? Jun 12 02:21:07 and the next step is that a newbie has to promise to update the wiki to make it clearer before they get any help Jun 12 02:21:09 trying to pipe my usb into the evdo Jun 12 02:21:10 zinge, if you want. Jun 12 02:21:27 zinge, yes...if you want to try to convert, that would be the section. Jun 12 02:21:30 ok, running through the steps now Jun 12 02:21:39 is anything special supposed to happen besides a reboot after doing upupdowndown ? Jun 12 02:21:42 LarrySteeze: see the 7 rules on www.nslu2-linux.org Jun 12 02:21:42 zinge, please keep notes. Jun 12 02:21:49 because...like last night Jun 12 02:21:51 i now have to go again Jun 12 02:22:03 zinge, i feel i'm to close to it to be a good test case. Jun 12 02:22:04 but the weekend is near, I will be glued to my screen. Jun 12 02:22:07 I'm getting some errors when running talk.py but they just look like it can't connect to the phone period Jun 12 02:22:12 LarrySteeze: I will be creating a similar set of rules for this channel Jun 12 02:22:31 okay. I'm going to follow instructions to the letter and see what happens, I'll note things that don't seem right Jun 12 02:22:31 psykoz: service prolly not installed Jun 12 02:22:36 anyone here from MA? Jun 12 02:22:42 LarrySteeze: yup Jun 12 02:22:57 where in MA? Jun 12 02:23:03 southcoast Jun 12 02:23:06 ShinAli: optware-devel is the native toolchain package - dunno if it works or not Jun 12 02:23:10 what about AZ? Jun 12 02:23:10 i work in cambridge, though Jun 12 02:23:10 ah Jun 12 02:23:19 it certainly works on some other armel platforms Jun 12 02:23:20 i'm boston Jun 12 02:25:03 are you having zinge run through the repo install? Jun 12 02:25:08 yes Jun 12 02:25:14 want me to go at it too? Jun 12 02:25:17 ipkg-opt and loopback Jun 12 02:25:23 sure Jun 12 02:25:34 on the "mounting a loopback file" instructions, /opt already exists when I try to create it Jun 12 02:25:35 even tho I have ZERO use for it Jun 12 02:25:54 mv /opt /opt.orig Jun 12 02:25:58 DarthPooh: zero? really? Jun 12 02:26:21 summatusmentis, unless you can tell me why I would need it... Jun 12 02:26:35 bpadalino:http://webos.pastebin.com/m3e3e7117 Jun 12 02:26:37 run a webserver on your phone! Jun 12 02:26:46 exactly Jun 12 02:27:03 mount -o loop /media/internal/disk-image /opt ..................... No such file or directory Jun 12 02:27:04 zinge, DarthPooh: if we can have a separate "start from scratch" instruction and a later "do this to get back to scratch if you used the old method" that would be puurrfect Jun 12 02:27:08 gcc -o -lusb Jun 12 02:27:50 mkdir /opt && mount -o loop /media/internal/disk-image /opt Jun 12 02:28:00 what do you prefer me to do? Jun 12 02:28:13 oh, can we call that file /media/internal/optware.ext3 please? Jun 12 02:28:30 dreadchicken: same error Jun 12 02:28:38 getting this error with talk.py: http://unsociable.org/sandbox Jun 12 02:29:20 mount -o loop /media/internal/optware.ext3 /opt Jun 12 02:29:25 needs to be optware.ex3 I'm assuming, not /internal/disk-image Jun 12 02:29:30 the instructions are wrong...correct. Jun 12 02:29:36 bpadalino: I've already found an error in that code. above the if statements, add "int ret;" Jun 12 02:29:37 k, just making sure Jun 12 02:29:45 i dont ssh in... I am a USB guy Jun 12 02:30:00 and exit() will be undefined Jun 12 02:30:06 i was just testing if loopback mounting was possible :\ Jun 12 02:30:14 you might not want to keep it at 20mb though Jun 12 02:30:26 let's go for 1GB. who needs music. Jun 12 02:30:38 yeah, i found it when trying to compile Jun 12 02:30:41 yay, someone that feels like some USB Jun 12 02:30:52 its just easier Jun 12 02:31:03 replace all the exit() with "return 0;" Jun 12 02:31:19 0x0830 0x0101 are required for vendor then product Jun 12 02:31:31 since I'm on novaproxy, do you want me to skip step 3, or do it anyway? Jun 12 02:31:32 i never turned developer mode off, heh Jun 12 02:31:39 0x0101? Jun 12 02:31:46 everyone got 0x8002 last night Jun 12 02:31:51 zinge, yes...skip. Jun 12 02:31:54 k Jun 12 02:32:12 zinge: if we can make the instructions be the simple ones that will work on all host platforms, that will be best. Jun 12 02:32:22 dunno whether that's ssh or usb yet Jun 12 02:32:32 geist: do we have usb on all platforms yet? Jun 12 02:32:37 hmm? Jun 12 02:32:43 in house? sure Jun 12 02:32:47 lol Jun 12 02:32:48 haha Jun 12 02:32:53 I meant available to us :-) Jun 12 02:32:54 we use linux more than anything else Jun 12 02:33:03 dunno Jun 12 02:33:09 is there any reason you don't ship a linux version? Jun 12 02:33:09 getting "no such file or directory" when removing dropbear Jun 12 02:33:19 yeah, 0x0101 Jun 12 02:33:28 possibly I may have been using semi-completed instructions and already have it in /opt? Jun 12 02:33:33 "Can't Open New Cards": "Se prohíben cartas nuevas", Jun 12 02:33:33 "Dismiss unused cards to free memory.": "Cierra las cartas no usadas para liberar memoria.", Jun 12 02:33:33 "Drag up to answer": "Arrastrar arriba para contestar", Jun 12 02:33:33 "Drag up to power off": "Arrastrar arriba para apagar", Jun 12 02:33:33 "Drag up to unlock": "Arrastrar arriba para desbloquear", Jun 12 02:33:34 "Help": "Ayuda", Jun 12 02:33:36 "Memory critical, too many cards!": "Nivel de memoria crítico, hay demasiadas cartas.", Jun 12 02:33:38 "Memory low, too many cards!": "Memoria insuficiente, hay demasiadas cartas.", Jun 12 02:33:40 "OK": "OK", Jun 12 02:33:42 "Please throw away cards to recover.": "Descarta algunas cartas para continuar.", Jun 12 02:33:43 yeah, i just realized that we moved dropbear (mv opt opt.orig Jun 12 02:33:44 "Throw away cards to recover your ass": "Descarta algunas cartas para continuar" Jun 12 02:33:45 cyanidepoison: my guess is that then they would have had to train sprint support on linux Jun 12 02:33:46 oops Jun 12 02:33:48 sorry for the flood Jun 12 02:33:48 i suspect whoever was putting together the webos doctor didn't want to bother with the 'how do i install stuff to the zillion linux distros' problem, so they just punted Jun 12 02:34:09 geist, probably sounds like a safe move Jun 12 02:34:13 rwhitby, will ipkg remove dropbear clean the ipkg db if the package went away? Jun 12 02:34:15 i just write the tools, man Jun 12 02:34:20 understandable Jun 12 02:34:23 and I guess the boss uses osx, so they have to support that :-) Jun 12 02:34:31 geist: thats really a distro community problem rather than palm issue imho Jun 12 02:34:33 dreadchicken: nope Jun 12 02:34:38 went away = binaries moved. Jun 12 02:34:38 heh, i do too, but i mostly use it to shell into a headless linux box Jun 12 02:34:43 like all good linux boxen should be Jun 12 02:34:56 all mine are Jun 12 02:35:03 * swishy see's pre running headless and cli to make calls... Jun 12 02:35:10 swishy: it's a problem when wants to make an installer for linux Jun 12 02:35:12 so we should remove dropbear before we create the loopback Jun 12 02:35:12 #>call bob Jun 12 02:35:13 swishy: worked for openmoko ;-) Jun 12 02:35:14 zinge, unwind...put opt back in place and then do the ipkg remove. fixing wiki as we go. Jun 12 02:35:20 rwhitby: yeah :) Jun 12 02:35:20 ok Jun 12 02:35:21 before we mount it on /opt Jun 12 02:35:28 right Jun 12 02:35:48 i use my university's linux boxes Jun 12 02:35:50 bpadalino: where did you get that number from? Jun 12 02:35:56 cyanidepoison: 0x0101 ? Jun 12 02:35:57 one of the neat things we have around work is the motherboard will entirely power itself off usb without anything else attached Jun 12 02:36:00 i RA so i get to do whatever i want Jun 12 02:36:00 yeah Jun 12 02:36:00 from lsusb -v Jun 12 02:36:11 so you can just hang one off a usb cable and make a beowulf cluster out of em, or whatever Jun 12 02:36:30 as long as you have enough hubs with power you can run i guess up to 127 Jun 12 02:36:32 i think i am in dev mode ... maybe i should turn that off and see what happens ? Jun 12 02:36:35 most i've seen on one box is around 16 Jun 12 02:36:50 Hm...I didn't realize that the "quicklaunch icon" wasn't actually positioned in "default-dock-positions.json" Jun 12 02:36:56 geist: I kinda think the vendors should be able to make a generic tarball and the distros themselves can create a wrapper for thier own PM crapola Jun 12 02:37:02 and if you look on the teardown sites, the main board is tiny Jun 12 02:37:15 i also have a usb modem tho Jun 12 02:37:25 which is kind of strange ? Jun 12 02:37:43 dreadchicken: ipkg remove dropbear now gives me "No packages removed, nothing to be done" after I moved /opt.orig back to /opt Jun 12 02:37:48 someone said dev mode was 0x8004 Jun 12 02:37:57 geist: yeah, congrats to the hardware team on that Jun 12 02:38:17 congrats to everyone, this thing is a masterpiece. Jun 12 02:38:35 born of much toil and late nights, i can tell ya Jun 12 02:38:47 well worth it and appreciated Jun 12 02:38:51 zinge, ls /opt/sbin/dropbear Jun 12 02:39:16 bpadalino: so if you guys do a better novacomd, please open source it nicely and if it's better i'll just swap it out :) Jun 12 02:39:28 no problemo~! Jun 12 02:39:36 dreadchicken: oy, my bad. mistyped my mv command, hold on, lemme fix it and retry remove Jun 12 02:39:39 our novacomd kind of grew a little bit beyond its ability to maintain, it's in dire need of some refactoring Jun 12 02:39:40 i wish that my CS curriculum taught some hardware engineering so i can appreciate hardware more Jun 12 02:39:55 heh Jun 12 02:40:17 i'd like to try to make that big ass CPU like that one guy did on that engadget article Jun 12 02:40:17 +i'd like to try to make that big ass-CPU like that one guy did on that engadget article Jun 12 02:40:23 it looks ridiculously fun Jun 12 02:40:24 geist: what's your license preference? Jun 12 02:40:37 me personally? MIT Jun 12 02:40:44 no clause BSD, same thing AFAIK Jun 12 02:40:54 that's what we're gravitating towards here too Jun 12 02:41:06 i would've got in MIT if i didn't screw around in HS and first year of college Jun 12 02:41:12 (of course it's up to each individual author, but if they ask me that's what I tell them) Jun 12 02:41:28 does it count that i work next door to MIT with a bunch of grads? Jun 12 02:41:29 but i've got profs interested in me for grad school at ut austin so that'll be cool Jun 12 02:41:31 it's worked out pretty good for me, a couple of my open source projects have made their way into stuff greater Jun 12 02:41:38 mostly due to MIT Jun 12 02:41:42 nebula: NOPE. Jun 12 02:41:45 hah Jun 12 02:41:45 hmm... interesting. I don't know how I managed to do that, but /opt is now empty and /opt.orig is gone Jun 12 02:41:46 maybe Jun 12 02:41:47 i dunno Jun 12 02:41:56 wtf Jun 12 02:42:02 wtf Jun 12 02:42:10 i absolutely love the MIT opencourseware Jun 12 02:42:14 that was STRANGE Jun 12 02:42:19 zinge, ipkg list_installed | grep dropbear Jun 12 02:42:20 the analysis of algorithms class was excellent Jun 12 02:42:26 i need sleep. good night! Jun 12 02:42:30 http://pastie.textmate.org/509268 - that's my lsusb from my linux VM inside osx ... Jun 12 02:42:34 you want it not to be there. Jun 12 02:42:46 please disregard my iSerial :( Jun 12 02:42:50 its not Jun 12 02:42:58 it is no longer installed Jun 12 02:43:00 we'll assume that the remove dropbear step works once its in the right place, and I'll go on to remounting and step 5 Jun 12 02:43:02 excellent Jun 12 02:43:06 right Jun 12 02:43:11 i reordered, so be careful. Jun 12 02:43:20 bpadalino: how did you get it into 0101 mode? Jun 12 02:43:25 zinge, dreadchicken: thanks for what you guys are doing Jun 12 02:43:28 bpadalino: that's a little odd Jun 12 02:43:33 wish I had a device so I could help Jun 12 02:43:37 geist, i am guessing usbnet enable ? Jun 12 02:43:43 bingo Jun 12 02:43:58 so that's why the modem shows up as well Jun 12 02:44:00 gotcha Jun 12 02:44:07 np, it's my mess to cleanup anyways...i was so insistent on not using the supplied telnet and using ssh. Jun 12 02:44:15 telnet is the debil Jun 12 02:44:22 bpadalino: what, the ethernet gadget? Jun 12 02:44:27 yeah Jun 12 02:44:31 yep, ssh from the start - it's gotta be that way. otherwise bad press. Jun 12 02:44:32 that's not a modem Jun 12 02:44:52 what about the RNDIS comm control ? Jun 12 02:44:54 do I still need to remount opware.ext3? I'm getting mount: can't find /media/internal/optware.ext3 in /etc/fstab when I try Jun 12 02:45:10 you doing it loop? Jun 12 02:45:18 ya Jun 12 02:45:19 oh look at that Jun 12 02:45:25 iInterface = novacom linux Jun 12 02:45:26 bpadalino: not really what it does Jun 12 02:45:38 yeah, i didn't put the string in there for nuthin! Jun 12 02:45:42 mount -o loop /media/internal/optware.ext3 /opt Jun 12 02:45:47 heyo!! Jun 12 02:45:47 * geist fades into the darkness and gets some food Jun 12 02:45:49 zinge, mount | grep optware we don't want it to be there. Jun 12 02:46:06 getting nothing Jun 12 02:46:09 thanks geist Jun 12 02:46:20 good Jun 12 02:46:28 that was weird Jun 12 02:46:35 cyanidepoison: do you see the paste i have? and the information for that USB device ? Jun 12 02:46:39 i want to connect to those endpoints Jun 12 02:46:50 so mount -o loop /media/internal/optware.ext3 /opt is failing? Jun 12 02:46:54 I am getting /dev/loop0 on /opt type ext3 (rw,data=ordered) Jun 12 02:47:01 int usb_get_descriptor_by_endpoint(usb_dev_handle *dev, int ep, unsigned char type, unsigned char index, void *buf, int size); Jun 12 02:47:29 yeah, that's bad...we broked it. Jun 12 02:47:32 umount /opt Jun 12 02:47:36 that's the libusb function for getting a FD by a endpoint Jun 12 02:47:37 oops Jun 12 02:47:37 ok Jun 12 02:47:39 try again Jun 12 02:47:54 k Jun 12 02:48:20 you may need to losetup -d /dev/loop0 Jun 12 02:48:30 do I need to recreate and reformat the opware.ext3 file, or just umount and try remounting? Jun 12 02:48:41 cyanidepoison: can i iterate through and check the iInterface values ? Jun 12 02:48:42 try remounting it Jun 12 02:49:03 remounting works Jun 12 02:49:05 much better Jun 12 02:49:09 cool Jun 12 02:49:15 going on to step 5 Jun 12 02:50:03 zinge, make sure you preceed the xvzf with a tvzf to make sure you don't munge things Jun 12 02:50:09 okay so can't get novacomd to install on windows 7 =[ rolls back everytime ~80% of the way Jun 12 02:50:23 iirc data.tar.gz needs to be untarred from / Jun 12 02:50:29 to end up in /opt Jun 12 02:50:38 it's root relative Jun 12 02:50:51 one more time? Jun 12 02:50:54 bpadalino: change 1 in the if statement to 2 Jun 12 02:51:14 wait Jun 12 02:51:19 3 Jun 12 02:51:19 tar tvzf /tmp/ipkg/data.tar.gz to see what's in there and where it's gonna land. Jun 12 02:51:37 ok Jun 12 02:51:43 tvzf shows the files, but doesn't untar them...test run if you will. Jun 12 02:52:39 got it. looks like its all going into ./opt. Jun 12 02:52:40 set configuration 3 ? Jun 12 02:52:44 yeah Jun 12 02:53:01 sp I need to cd to / first, correct? Jun 12 02:53:19 iInterface 20 novacom linux Jun 12 02:53:27 iInterface 20 novacom linux Jun 12 02:53:30 yes Jun 12 02:53:35 that's the one Jun 12 02:53:35 bInterfaceNumber 3 Jun 12 02:54:08 it opened? Jun 12 02:54:15 no .. Jun 12 02:54:27 oh. Jun 12 02:54:44 if((ret = usb_set_configuration(devPhone, 1)) < 0) { Jun 12 02:54:48 change 1 to 3 Jun 12 02:55:04 Got up to step 10 with no problems, then hit: Nothing to be done An error ocurred, return value: 4. Collected errors: Cannot find package dropbear. Check the spelling or perhaps run 'ipkg update' Jun 12 02:55:23 yes, /opt/bin/ipkg-opt update Jun 12 02:55:42 that was step 9, sucessfully terminated Jun 12 02:55:43 did you do step 9? Jun 12 02:55:44 lemme try again Jun 12 02:55:57 sucessfully terminated Jun 12 02:56:00 but its immediate Jun 12 02:56:04 like it may not be connecting Jun 12 02:56:16 how is usbnet enabled? Jun 12 02:56:19 ohhhhh Jun 12 02:56:36 cyanidepoison: so no need to do the configuration thing ... i dunno what the deal is .. i can claim the interface to be 3 .. Jun 12 02:56:39 see the end of step 4...you didn't see that because i changed it under you. mv /etc/ipkg.conf /opt/etc/ipkg.conf Jun 12 02:56:40 from host??? Jun 12 02:56:48 now altinterface doesn't work so hot Jun 12 02:56:51 when i change it to 20 Jun 12 02:56:52 then do 9 Jun 12 02:56:57 ok Jun 12 02:57:05 change that to 3 as well Jun 12 02:57:35 much better. yeah, I haven't been refrshing the page Jun 12 02:57:46 you see why i was waiting for someone? i can't test this without redoing my box and i cant have it down tonight/tomorrow. Jun 12 02:58:23 dropbear successfully installed Jun 12 02:58:38 INFO: ROM Verifyer: /usr/sbin/integcheck IPKG VERIFICATION SUCCEEDED Jun 12 02:58:39 excellent, +nucurses and something else iirc Jun 12 02:58:50 looks like thats how the consistency will be checked Jun 12 02:58:53 cyanidepoison: i don't think i need it ... i need to claim interface 3 since that's where novacom is, right .. but i just need to iterate the endpoints now Jun 12 02:59:03 yeah, psmic and ncurses Jun 12 02:59:11 bpadalino: cy: why didn't lsusb -v -v show these altsettings then? Jun 12 02:59:35 tmzt, i apparently ran 'usbnet enable' Jun 12 02:59:36 now you need to go back to...lemme check...dkelton's instructions on setting up dropbear via upstart. Jun 12 02:59:41 novacom is 255 71? something I think Jun 12 02:59:42 which seems to change things ? Jun 12 02:59:49 ok Jun 12 02:59:52 does that write to sysfs? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 12 02:59:56 2009