**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 13 02:59:57 2009 Jun 13 03:01:34 dropbear can't transmit colors over ssh term? Jun 13 03:02:40 dropbear transmits colors just fine Jun 13 03:03:20 uhm Jun 13 03:03:26 anyone figured out tethering yet? Jun 13 03:05:26 Not exactl Jun 13 03:07:52 Bartman007: seriously? i'm not seeing any when i use vim Jun 13 03:08:06 Has anybody had frequency scaling enabled long enough to tell if its actually helping battery life? Jun 13 03:08:45 Also: anyone know how to access the camera? Jun 13 03:10:12 I think it might be v4l Jun 13 03:10:14 ShinAli: I think that's a result of the stripped down vim compile options Jun 13 03:10:46 in /sys/class? Jun 13 03:10:48 i installed vim via optware Jun 13 03:11:01 why is there a video0, 1, and 2 in v4l? Jun 13 03:12:14 vid0 and vid1 have no name Jun 13 03:12:21 vid2 is omap24xxvout Jun 13 03:12:43 ShinAli: what is the output of `vim --version' ? Jun 13 03:13:22 a bunch of crap, you want me to pm it to you? Jun 13 03:13:28 oops, I don't think that indicates color support anyway :) Jun 13 03:14:26 I'm debating installing bash Jun 13 03:14:28 * rwhitby returns from little league soccer coaching Jun 13 03:15:08 anyone waiting for wiki access or anything? Jun 13 03:15:32 I wonder if that was Aaron that works for Palm that I met last night in S.F. lol Jun 13 03:16:09 FoneFrenzy: his IP was from Tennessee. Jun 13 03:16:28 j/k bartman Jun 13 03:17:21 do we know if one of the /dev/videos is the camera? Jun 13 03:17:29 LarrySteeze: my bad Jun 13 03:17:36 was workin on a soundproof room Jun 13 03:17:57 i've got no AV/firewall running, and im still getting target machine refused... any other stupid things to look out for?> Jun 13 03:18:14 use novaproxy instead? Jun 13 03:18:19 i tried that as well Jun 13 03:18:22 same target machine refused Jun 13 03:18:33 im on windows 7 Jun 13 03:18:39 is that gonna make the difference? Jun 13 03:18:49 FuMan: wont work! Jun 13 03:18:52 I couldn't get Novacom to work on Win7 Jun 13 03:18:57 dammit. Jun 13 03:18:59 atleast, it didn't work for me Jun 13 03:19:03 lack of service Jun 13 03:19:04 theres a macOS root as well correct? Jun 13 03:19:07 yeah Jun 13 03:19:16 native driver Jun 13 03:19:17 So, have peeps been able to figure out how to use qemu to run the image? Jun 13 03:19:19 Had to bust out my laptop with XP but the x86 installer is not working? Jun 13 03:19:27 FoneFrenzy: should be Jun 13 03:19:37 i've installed it countless times Jun 13 03:20:21 Does the pre need to be plugged in for the Nova app to start? Jun 13 03:20:40 anyone got phone not responding after try out drag-menu? Jun 13 03:20:52 had to remove battery... :( Jun 13 03:20:59 Hello Jun 13 03:21:20 I am sure you all heard but I was out and will repost just incase :-) Jun 13 03:21:41 Did you know the Pre can be thrown into restore mode by holding volume up and plugging it in Jun 13 03:21:47 Guest368: yep Jun 13 03:21:54 it's even on the wiki Jun 13 03:22:08 yeah Jun 13 03:22:09 rwitby: I was sure you did know. Just wanted to make sure. Trying to help! :-) Jun 13 03:22:11 this has been known Jun 13 03:22:16 that is how to get into "recovery" mode Jun 13 03:22:16 Guest368: thx Jun 13 03:22:20 where you can communicate with bootie Jun 13 03:22:24 Anytime guys :-) Jun 13 03:22:25 i thought you all knew about this Jun 13 03:22:31 hehe, communicate with the bootie Jun 13 03:22:42 bootie is the bootloader Jun 13 03:22:44 anyone have a touch stone? Jun 13 03:22:48 once the protocol is reversed Jun 13 03:22:49 aka Jun 13 03:22:52 yes touchstone Jun 13 03:22:57 once i get off my lazy ass and take a break from iphone stuff Jun 13 03:23:05 how usable is the device on the touch stone, does it slide around if you try and swipe? Jun 13 03:23:10 ppl will be able to have a "FULL INTERACTIVE SHELL" w/ it Jun 13 03:23:12 like iRecovery Jun 13 03:23:22 I need help!!! phone can't launch app therefore can ssh in to remove the last change.. :( Jun 13 03:23:22 chron: bootload has just one bulk endpoint interface like novacomd? Jun 13 03:23:41 i have not looked into bootie usb protocol yet Jun 13 03:23:52 Opie: it's held down by magnets so it doesn't move about. Jun 13 03:23:54 touchstone: it actually stay pretty good... but it is not cool when you try to type on kb Jun 13 03:24:32 sure, i need that, and a really tiny adapter for my usb keyboard and i'll have a sweet computer Jun 13 03:24:33 can you hold the phone with the touchstoe stuck to the back? Jun 13 03:24:39 or is that too awkward? Jun 13 03:24:44 rwhitby: where's the website that lists the ipkg packages? (new pre so I don't have it installed to do ipkg-opt list yet) Jun 13 03:24:46 Op: get a bluetooth laser keyboard. ;) Jun 13 03:24:57 asedeno_home: you enjoying learning about armv7? Jun 13 03:25:05 i insalled the backdoor..where do I go from here? Jun 13 03:25:08 Op: http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/keyboards-mice/8193/ Jun 13 03:25:14 and if you're looknig at bootie, thumb2 Jun 13 03:25:19 interesting, how hard would it be to get a bluetooth working with it Jun 13 03:25:23 zinge: http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/ Jun 13 03:25:24 bootie pisses me off Jun 13 03:25:31 haha Jun 13 03:25:34 thanks Jun 13 03:25:43 they use shit like CBZ and CBNZ instead of just the good ol' fashioned BNE and CMP Jun 13 03:26:06 plus, they are so butthurt over "optimization" or something they feel the need to re-use strings Jun 13 03:26:09 like seriously, wtf Jun 13 03:26:29 weak Jun 13 03:26:32 i rooted on macos Jun 13 03:26:37 and now im getting 404 on dropbear D; Jun 13 03:26:37 chron: :( Jun 13 03:26:39 I get an error on Novacom installer for some reason Jun 13 03:26:46 whats the PW to the wiki? Jun 13 03:26:51 FuMan: bump the version number Jun 13 03:26:52 no mplayer or gstreamer... and vlc was giving lots of problems last night. Anything else on there that will stream video? Jun 13 03:27:03 chron: hey man, i'm only responsible for the high level codez, what the compiler does is its bidness Jun 13 03:27:15 i think there's a mistake in the ipkg wiki page Jun 13 03:27:22 on step 7 Jun 13 03:27:24 geist, how's it going Jun 13 03:27:34 it goes. i just bought an electric drum kit Jun 13 03:27:40 * rwhitby looks to see the latest state of the ipkg wiki page Jun 13 03:27:41 rock band has me all interested in teh drums Jun 13 03:27:46 geist: are you saying you wrote bootie? :P Jun 13 03:27:47 whats wrong with it EvanPro ? Jun 13 03:27:58 "untar the data.tar.gz onto your new opt" Jun 13 03:27:59 chron: yeah, i did Jun 13 03:28:01 dreadchicken: sorry, i was retarded Jun 13 03:28:03 Hahaha Jun 13 03:28:04 baha Jun 13 03:28:04 but it says to cd to root Jun 13 03:28:06 to what? Jun 13 03:28:12 geist: you should get guitar hero world tour; you can use the kit you just bought to play the game Jun 13 03:28:18 i formatted the file to ext2 for some reason Jun 13 03:28:21 type prolly Jun 13 03:28:24 typo Jun 13 03:28:24 oh yeah, how so? midi? Jun 13 03:28:26 -5 works Jun 13 03:28:27 EvanPro: that is correct Jun 13 03:28:28 thanks :D Jun 13 03:28:38 geist: you accidently signature check on the "go" command Jun 13 03:28:38 it unpacks relative to root Jun 13 03:28:54 does the tar on the Pre support -C ? Jun 13 03:28:55 geist: midi input on the guitar hero dum kit Jun 13 03:28:56 ohhh the tgz already has the /opt in it Jun 13 03:28:56 lol Jun 13 03:29:00 durrr. Jun 13 03:29:10 *you accidently the signature check on the "go" command Jun 13 03:29:13 chron: lemme see. i have to admit that i dont use 'go' for pretty much anything Jun 13 03:29:15 tar -C / xvzf .... Jun 13 03:29:27 i mean the signature check is not there Jun 13 03:29:32 it just jumps to the addr u feed it Jun 13 03:29:56 is that on purpose? did palm actually intend for users to be able to exec code at such a low level :P Jun 13 03:30:11 yep Jun 13 03:30:16 now that we got restore mode. anyone working on an android port? Jun 13 03:30:22 LOL Jun 13 03:30:25 chron: yeah, go just jumps right into it Jun 13 03:30:28 lboot is what you want Jun 13 03:30:36 I think its on port 80085 :-) Jun 13 03:30:46 geist: why did Palm not ask you to implement an RSA check? Jun 13 03:30:46 okay, I'm done with really bad jokes for now Jun 13 03:30:49 they srsly don't care? :P Jun 13 03:31:06 because what's the point? Jun 13 03:31:12 ahhh crap Jun 13 03:31:18 if you want to you can just skip bootie directly and load via the omap loader Jun 13 03:31:25 i mistyped the preuser password Jun 13 03:31:30 so it says password unchanged Jun 13 03:31:32 O_o Jun 13 03:31:36 how can i try and re-set it Jun 13 03:31:44 when i repaste the command, it says preuser is in use Jun 13 03:31:47 i used to use 'go' sometimes to boot other booties when testing Jun 13 03:31:58 but mostly i just use the novacom stuff directly Jun 13 03:32:03 i take it since you're asking about this you've gotten to the bootie command line? Jun 13 03:32:12 FuMan: passwd preuser Jun 13 03:32:26 sorry, total linux tard Jun 13 03:32:39 nah, just scoping out commands Jun 13 03:32:49 i can tell this is based off of u-boot Jun 13 03:32:54 because the iPhones iBoot is too Jun 13 03:32:55 nope. it isn't Jun 13 03:33:08 i just also use uboot sometimes, so i tend to hack the same comands Jun 13 03:33:14 so, do we have a standard way to install apps to webOS? or are people simply modifying existing? Jun 13 03:33:16 the *env commands, for example Jun 13 03:33:20 is ther ea template somewhere? Jun 13 03:33:20 ok, let me rephrase Jun 13 03:33:22 same commands Jun 13 03:33:30 yah, that does not mean uboot Jun 13 03:33:33 opie_: nothing yet Jun 13 03:33:41 and arguably uboot is just copying openfirmware Jun 13 03:33:51 the history of those kinds of commands go way back Jun 13 03:33:54 was someone saying i can just copy my app info over and cycle syslunamgr? Jun 13 03:34:12 many of the routiens look similar to iboot Jun 13 03:34:16 or is there install code in launcher somewhere? Jun 13 03:34:17 which seems like it was copied from uboot Jun 13 03:34:20 thats why I thought that Jun 13 03:34:22 it wasn't Jun 13 03:34:26 just a reimplementation Jun 13 03:34:36 do you actually work for Palm, or just a contractor? Jun 13 03:34:41 work for Jun 13 03:34:41 just curious Jun 13 03:34:45 ah nice Jun 13 03:34:52 anyone got any good links to armv7 docs? Jun 13 03:34:54 you don't have an NDA on this stuff? Jun 13 03:35:04 i dunno, i'm not telling you anything you dont know Jun 13 03:35:11 palm is pretty awesome, damn Jun 13 03:35:16 just clarifying what you already found out Jun 13 03:35:34 that's true :P Jun 13 03:35:47 dude Jun 13 03:35:52 get a better compiler though, please :) Jun 13 03:36:01 geist: I uh.. found out the date the SDK was gonna be released... can you just clarify it for me? Jun 13 03:36:04 >_> Jun 13 03:36:05 summatusmentis: nope Jun 13 03:36:07 do we still have to add the symlinks for scp and stuff for dropbear? i hears someone say we don't with the latest one... Jun 13 03:36:10 heard* Jun 13 03:36:11 :-P Jun 13 03:36:20 chron: what's wrong, lameass codegen? Jun 13 03:36:23 guy just post a bug I found with DragMenu. It causes no response to the Pre regardless of what you do Jun 13 03:36:27 it looks really ugly in IDA :P and a device as sexy as the Pre deserves to look Sexy in IDA :P Jun 13 03:36:39 thumb2 is pretty new to gcc, i wouldn't be surprised if it does some whacky stuff Jun 13 03:36:46 Geist: Any word on a flash plugin? ;) Jun 13 03:36:48 but thumb2 is somewhat denser, and there's a 64k memory limit in the omap Jun 13 03:36:58 geist: just, instead of CMP it uses weird stuff like CBNZ Jun 13 03:36:58 so i'm pretty forced to use it Jun 13 03:37:02 that's thumb2 Jun 13 03:37:03 also, it "borrows" form other strings Jun 13 03:37:12 while trying to fix it, I removed battery and thought I can poke thru the hole with palm sticker as reset... I guess I found out it is a screw and just voided my warranty Jun 13 03:37:13 borrowing from other strings is very common Jun 13 03:37:20 i want that, it's all about size Jun 13 03:37:23 64k is all i got Jun 13 03:37:28 So what is the general concensus? Is the 'Drag Menu' tutorial safe to follow? Jun 13 03:37:31 geist, probablyl not your thing, but any idea why the Pre doesn't do ad-hoc Jun 13 03:37:40 not my thing Jun 13 03:37:50 like there was some "assert failed" string that your "cmd_version" routine borrowed the ending "%s" from for it's %s Jun 13 03:37:54 for me ultra, no.. normal usage is ok.. however, if you try the operation at initial screen, it will failed Jun 13 03:37:57 Geist: What is your thing at palm? Jun 13 03:37:57 chron: cute Jun 13 03:38:03 i mean come on man, you don't need to be _That_ optimized :) Jun 13 03:38:04 Lurking_Grue: kernel, bootloader, novacom Jun 13 03:38:11 Ah. Jun 13 03:38:17 diordna: Okay. I won't do it then. Jun 13 03:38:17 chron: yes i do, it's within a couple hundred bytes of the size limit most of the time Jun 13 03:38:29 every time i add some function somewhere i have to remove some string somewhere else :) Jun 13 03:38:37 it's super annoying Jun 13 03:38:44 rassin' frassin omap and it's 64k sram Jun 13 03:39:13 I broke the omap size limit this week in fact :( Jun 13 03:39:55 yeah, chrisa hacks on bootie some too Jun 13 03:40:10 chrisa, hehe Jun 13 03:40:26 though i didn't put it in there, bootie is actually based on an open source kernel that i wrote Jun 13 03:41:00 geist: we were once doing uCodes for video decoders, so we had to free/optimize each time to get a few extra instructions!!! to add a new bug fix Jun 13 03:41:27 FINiK-: yep Jun 13 03:41:28 geist: we should get lunch sometime before sargun keeps bugging us. It'd be weird the first time to be with him Jun 13 03:41:42 sure, he's in sunnyvale so we should hit the Firehouse some day Jun 13 03:41:54 it's like 3 blocks from my house Jun 13 03:42:06 damn, i'm east coast Jun 13 03:42:13 hey Jun 13 03:42:16 just ask him to bring a copy of his resume with him :) Jun 13 03:42:19 I live on mathilda/maude Jun 13 03:42:19 now that we got restore mode Jun 13 03:42:22 walking to work, woo Jun 13 03:42:28 chrisa: you work for Palm on that stuff too, I assume? :P Jun 13 03:42:29 is anyone working on android porting Jun 13 03:42:31 woo Jun 13 03:42:40 chron: yeah, I do drivers, some bootie, misc Jun 13 03:42:45 nice Jun 13 03:43:00 alright, afk again Jun 13 03:43:08 I could walk over there too. It would only take.... 5 days? Jun 13 03:43:17 PeaceMiddleEast: why would you spoil a nice open system like we have with something like Android? Jun 13 03:43:22 chron: have fun with the dissassembly. I *love* going through stuff with IDA Jun 13 03:43:22 haha Jun 13 03:43:29 must be a new one if it supports thumb2 Jun 13 03:43:29 member:rwhitby: why not? Jun 13 03:43:37 It's great that android is considered closed compared to us Jun 13 03:43:40 Amuses me greatly Jun 13 03:43:41 PeaceMiddleEast: touche Jun 13 03:43:52 if you hit actual ARM instructions, that's almost always stuff i hand wrote in asm Jun 13 03:43:55 geist: nah dude, 5.2 Jun 13 03:43:59 member:rwhitby: thank you Jun 13 03:44:03 chrisa, Does firehouse check ID, or only if you're at the bar? Jun 13 03:44:18 depends on if you look like a kid or not Jun 13 03:44:22 geist: I can see you used a premade .S file for some parts :P Jun 13 03:44:29 yep Jun 13 03:44:35 member:rwhitby: all joking aside. its a major mobile os with a few nice features. Jun 13 03:44:40 becuase its compiled in, but not referenced, which is very common for stuff like that Jun 13 03:44:40 is anyone working on an android port Jun 13 03:44:52 chron: mostly for low level arm bits Jun 13 03:44:58 atomic_add, etc Jun 13 03:45:02 so, what's the countdown timer to android on pre at? Jun 13 03:45:22 wouldn't it make more sense for you to remove those for now, and add those as an as needed basis? Jun 13 03:45:28 geist, nice. Jun 13 03:45:29 D0lph: 12 Jun 13 03:45:29 to save space and all Jun 13 03:45:30 geist, chrisa: do you guys have a betting pool running on when android is ported? Jun 13 03:45:34 d0lph1nK1ng: 15 mins,ohh no thats the facebook count down Jun 13 03:45:38 they are, the linker usually dumps what isn't used Jun 13 03:45:47 gcc + binutils has a trim mode Jun 13 03:46:28 lemme find u an example Jun 13 03:46:45 opie, fb app comes in 15min? Jun 13 03:46:52 chron: yes, i know what you're talking about Jun 13 03:47:07 stuff hand written doesn't get trimmed siunce they dont get put in their own section Jun 13 03:47:14 but almost all of those routines are referenced somewhere Jun 13 03:47:18 dolph: FB custom URLs open then Jun 13 03:47:23 and most of them are just a couple instructions Jun 13 03:47:33 oh, nice Jun 13 03:47:42 chrisa, Did you guys have a betting pool of how long it'd take to hack the device? Jun 13 03:47:50 chrisa, or various other milestones Jun 13 03:48:17 we have android running on OpenWrt on the goldfish emulator, we just need to get it working on my g1 Jun 13 03:48:26 haha Jun 13 03:48:28 then we can port openwrt to the pre, and..... :) Jun 13 03:49:35 [ 1212.443271] pcmcia_socket pcmcia_socket0: pccard: CardBus card inserted into slot 0 Jun 13 03:49:35 [ 1212.443360] pci 0000:04:00.0: reg 10 32bit mmio: [0x000000-0x00ffff] Jun 13 03:49:35 [ 1212.443715] ath5k 0000:04:00.0: enabling device (0000 -> 0002) Jun 13 03:49:35 [ 1212.443731] ath5k 0000:04:00.0: PCI INT A -> GSI 19 (level, low) -> IRQ 19 Jun 13 03:49:35 [ 1212.444203] ath5k 0000:04:00.0: registered as 'phy3' Jun 13 03:49:37 Bart: Before that I want Mame. Jun 13 03:49:37 [ 1212.446640] ath5k phy3: Couldn't identify radio revision. Jun 13 03:49:39 [ 1212.446670] ath5k 0000:04:00.0: PCI INT A disabled Jun 13 03:49:39 bartmann007: but i think many of us would want it dual booted not emulated. where u turn on the pre and choose the OS to use. :-p Jun 13 03:49:41 Grrr Jun 13 03:49:47 that happens with my WNA-2330 Jun 13 03:50:34 Bartman007, any ideas? Jun 13 03:50:46 chron: oh man, i wish i was doing what you're doing. going through IDA on a binary like this is a blast Jun 13 03:50:50 PeaceMiddleEast: how would it be emulated? goldfish is the name of the Android emulator target... Jun 13 03:51:23 we aren't emulating android on openwrt, just running them in the emulator because that was the obvious first target. Jun 13 03:51:28 geist: I don't know if you are being sarcastic Jun 13 03:51:29 but to be honest Jun 13 03:51:32 no, not at all Jun 13 03:51:33 i enjoy it :) Jun 13 03:51:34 I'm out for a while. I may be back on later. Have fun guys. Jun 13 03:51:38 i love hacking with IDA Jun 13 03:51:41 ah ok cool Jun 13 03:51:42 same Jun 13 03:51:54 bartman007: i am sorry. i am confused. would this b a dual boot? Jun 13 03:51:59 i once IDAed all my apple ][ roms, and then noticed that there was already a commented listing on the web Jun 13 03:52:49 PeaceMiddleEast: you're getting ahead of yourself. it has to work first. Jun 13 03:53:17 anyone get it rooted on Windows 7 x86? Jun 13 03:53:52 djwhitey: someone has but only on the RC i think Jun 13 03:54:21 bartman007: i understand. but is the final result hopefully a dual boot? Jun 13 03:55:11 fwiw, the powerd behaves nicely when luna is killed ;) Jun 13 03:55:17 chron: have you tried geohot's EDA? it look kind of cool from the video so I went and compiled it but I could never figure out how to use it. I tried the web-server mode and the console mode. I got it to open a file and disassemble it... that was it. Jun 13 03:55:55 nah, never tinkered w/ it too much Jun 13 03:56:17 PeaceMiddleEast: hopefully yes, but there aren't any solid plans yet; I'm just spouting off. Jun 13 03:56:29 i've been sitting in the dev room and they have been kinda silent for the past few weeks cyanide Jun 13 03:56:41 bartman007: go for it... please........................... lol Jun 13 03:57:27 opie_: i'm using the RC... doesn't seem like the x86 driver wants to work right Jun 13 03:57:40 * geist wanders off to get some food Jun 13 03:57:54 tried running it in compatibility mode as well Jun 13 03:57:59 * EvanPro waits on girlfriend to bring him food. Jun 13 03:58:08 * EvanPro grins Jun 13 03:59:01 EvanPro: don't tell her you said that :-) Jun 13 03:59:38 lol i won't.. but she'll probably read it when she gets back here lol. Jun 13 03:59:39 Hahah Jun 13 04:00:45 anyone really dugg into the browser code at all? Jun 13 04:01:09 geist: why no fiq? Jun 13 04:01:19 unimplemented? Jun 13 04:01:21 or is it actually like Jun 13 04:01:23 for some reason Jun 13 04:01:25 not supported? Jun 13 04:01:44 wow AVG doesn't come with a way to temporarily disable it? Jun 13 04:03:11 hmmm Jun 13 04:03:20 anyone know what the full name of the proc of this thing is? Jun 13 04:03:39 Cortex A8 Jun 13 04:03:53 on the TI-OMAP3430 Jun 13 04:05:03 is there a datasheet for it anywhere? Jun 13 04:05:16 let me see Jun 13 04:05:51 djwhitey: sorry i know nothing else, i'm using osx on the laptop Jun 13 04:06:36 * djwhitey kicks himself for taking the win7 rc plunge Jun 13 04:07:58 all I can find is some lame 8 page paper that tells me nothing I want to know :P Jun 13 04:08:14 actually the novacom driver says "working properly"... still getting the socket error though Jun 13 04:08:23 AVG? Jun 13 04:09:18 chron: the white paper? yeh its pretty shit Jun 13 04:09:20 does anyone know of a good ide for browsing the webOs, eclipse maybe? Jun 13 04:10:06 my function list for notepad++ isn't working and i'm lazy Jun 13 04:10:27 chron: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0344b/index.html what about that Jun 13 04:10:42 netbeans? :P Jun 13 04:12:10 some java thing i take it Jun 13 04:12:17 chron: dont need fiq Jun 13 04:12:21 yea Jun 13 04:12:29 dont use it Jun 13 04:13:23 ah Jun 13 04:13:35 does the builtin vic support it? just outta curiosity Jun 13 04:13:43 i think so Jun 13 04:14:02 i believe you can assign any vector to fiq or irq, it's pretty common on most of these interrupt controllers Jun 13 04:14:24 Hello Jun 13 04:14:30 Palm is here Jun 13 04:14:30 geist: so if we were going to set up a webos-internals public SCM repo, and wanted to use the same SCM system that a potential Palm public SCM repo used (hypothetically speaking), should webos-internals set up an svn or git repo? Jun 13 04:14:44 What is new? Jun 13 04:14:51 LOL Jun 13 04:14:52 rwhitby: i'm totally partial to git personally Jun 13 04:14:53 geist: ah Jun 13 04:15:07 svn all the way man Jun 13 04:15:19 rwhitby: but git really works best if you give one repo per project Jun 13 04:15:21 git is nice, but svn is better imo Jun 13 04:15:29 chron: git-svn > svn Jun 13 04:15:43 Path=C:\Windows\system32;C:\Windows;C:\Windows\System32\Wbem;C:\Windows\System32 Jun 13 04:15:44 git > * Jun 13 04:15:47 oops Jun 13 04:15:53 socket.error: [Errno 10061] No connection could be made because the target machi Jun 13 04:15:53 ne actively refused it Jun 13 04:15:59 geist: right, I was thinking repo.or.cz git project style Jun 13 04:16:27 Palm: that's an audacious nick you've got. Anything to back it up with? ;-) Jun 13 04:16:48 rwhitby: he can tell you to talk to the Palm? Jun 13 04:16:56 it's the palm hive-mind Jun 13 04:17:02 Would anyone do this: http://predev.wikidot.com/processor to scale the CPU down when not in use and scale it up to the original ~500 MHz when you start to use the phone again? Jun 13 04:17:03 our collective unconcious Jun 13 04:17:11 It is a good name guys :-) Jun 13 04:17:12 hmmmm Jun 13 04:17:24 don't arm processors scale down anywa? Jun 13 04:17:25 isn't the proc just a slightly different version of this: http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap3530.html Jun 13 04:17:26 anyway* Jun 13 04:17:36 3430 and 3530 are almost identical Jun 13 04:17:52 yeah thought so Jun 13 04:17:55 SICK Jun 13 04:18:01 there's a datasheet for it :D Jun 13 04:18:02 geist: but the ipkg database files on the device indicate that svn is mainly used to build the rootfs, so I was assuming any public repo from Palm would be svn ... Jun 13 04:18:14 yep, TI is quite good about trying to be public with their stuff Jun 13 04:18:26 they're really trying to be the default ARM cpu for hobbyist stuff Jun 13 04:18:43 compared to most of their competitors which tend to fiercely protect their IP Jun 13 04:19:10 I should've brought my zaurii back with my from school Jun 13 04:19:19 rwhitby: probably. we on the kernel team use git, but practically everyone else uses svn Jun 13 04:19:19 I'm not sure why, something to hack on Jun 13 04:19:25 geist: what's the difference? I thought they were just marketed at different audiences. Jun 13 04:19:41 Bartman007: 3430 has a couple more peripherals Jun 13 04:19:49 but aside from that, 3530 is thes ame Jun 13 04:19:58 i betcha they even come from the same die, though i dont actually know Jun 13 04:20:04 Repost: Would anyone do this: http://predev.wikidot.com/processor to scale the CPU down when not in use and scale it up to the original ~500 MHz when you start to use the phone again? Jun 13 04:20:07 but i've fooled with my beagleboard some, and it appears to be the same Jun 13 04:20:45 Palm: I'm sure someone would at least try it. Jun 13 04:20:58 What success they would have, dunno. Jun 13 04:21:29 rwhitby: How would we know? Jun 13 04:21:29 Palm, I think this has been discussed. Look at the logs. Jun 13 04:21:32 i was asking around a bit about why we dont have scaling on by default, apparently it didn't make any difference really Jun 13 04:21:33 geist: I cannot seem to find a datasheet for it Jun 13 04:21:37 Palm: why don't you try it? Jun 13 04:21:44 only 3530, not 3430 Jun 13 04:21:50 i think 3430 might be "private" Jun 13 04:21:53 all it did was make it more laggy, with no real power gains Jun 13 04:22:05 rwhitby: ironic as it is with my name. No Pre Yet! :-p Jun 13 04:22:24 it's a common ailment. Jun 13 04:22:27 like how the samsung S5L8900 was private and even iPhone-only Jun 13 04:22:27 chron: yeah, 3430 is for large customers making phones Jun 13 04:22:33 ah ok Jun 13 04:22:45 TI has a history of this: omap1510 vs omap5912 Jun 13 04:22:46 etc Jun 13 04:23:04 two divisions in the company, one that deals with large customers and one that sells it as a more 'retail' thing Jun 13 04:23:24 the 'retail' versions tend to be less functional Jun 13 04:23:42 lol, this datasheet is a hardware hackers wet dream Jun 13 04:23:46 but not much about software Jun 13 04:23:52 i've been dealing with TI for a long time, we shipped an omap1 based thing when i was at Danger. the sidekick 2+ Jun 13 04:24:13 you worked at Danger? Jun 13 04:24:17 yep Jun 13 04:24:25 what aspect of the phone? if its not against nda to talk about, that is Jun 13 04:24:27 i wrote a good portion of the kernel Jun 13 04:24:50 blah, danger is so gone now, nda doesn't tend to mean crap after you leave Jun 13 04:25:03 dude, I wanna work at a mobile phone company Jun 13 04:25:07 geist: no offense. just curious. what was going on over there that they wouldn't build a decent phone? a touch screen phone? Jun 13 04:25:08 poor danger :( Jun 13 04:25:18 you know, after i decide what I want to do with my life and all that Jun 13 04:25:34 the hiptop was so revolutionary at the time Jun 13 04:25:37 Palm: danger? we had a good idea for sidekick 1, then we brought in the bozos to do the money stuff Jun 13 04:25:52 and they were not engineers so they killed all the innovation and everyone left after a while Jun 13 04:25:57 then they just kept cramming out the same thing Jun 13 04:26:08 shame Jun 13 04:26:14 also tmo would totally stifle what we could try, since we were little and they demanded this and that Jun 13 04:26:16 geist: i know. but after the sidekick 2 game over. nothing new. nothing good. Jun 13 04:26:23 yep. that's about when i left Jun 13 04:26:31 by about then most of the original engineering was gone Jun 13 04:26:39 and they were jsut cramming out the same thing again and again Jun 13 04:26:52 geist: believe me. we all noticed. :-) Jun 13 04:26:56 yep Jun 13 04:27:05 well i am sorry things did not work out for you Jun 13 04:27:14 worked out fine for me, I went on to bigger and better things Jun 13 04:27:23 mind if i ask where u r now Jun 13 04:27:25 significantly bigger and better Jun 13 04:27:25 just curious Jun 13 04:27:27 Palm Jun 13 04:27:32 ur kidding Jun 13 04:27:34 thats ill Jun 13 04:27:39 what dept. Jun 13 04:28:01 sw. kernel, bootloader, etc Jun 13 04:28:18 ie, what some of these guys are trying to hack Jun 13 04:28:30 i cant code... but anything u can tell these good guys to help them out? Jun 13 04:28:39 NDA :( Jun 13 04:28:42 on the dl of course Jun 13 04:28:49 not really Jun 13 04:28:52 mab he can imply something if he wants Jun 13 04:28:56 i just want this stupid scp to work. Jun 13 04:29:17 geist: r u aware of any such vulnerabilities? Jun 13 04:29:21 i doubt that is nda Jun 13 04:29:41 Palm: the Palm employees here have been willing to give us details if we're basically already there Jun 13 04:29:45 right Jun 13 04:29:50 outside of that, they just sit and enjoy us breaking their stuff Jun 13 04:29:52 okay i understand Jun 13 04:29:53 yep Jun 13 04:30:00 dude it is very cool of u to be here Jun 13 04:30:03 i commend u Jun 13 04:30:05 thank u Jun 13 04:30:07 How are we able to post Palm code on http://predev.wikidot.com/tidbits ? Jun 13 04:30:31 I haven't looked at that page, we probably shouldn't be Jun 13 04:30:33 it's all deja vu, 2 years ago i was wathing the same thing when iphone was released Jun 13 04:30:37 but we had to be a lot more quieter then Jun 13 04:30:50 summatusmentis: If you're able to, you should probably remove it. Jun 13 04:31:10 geist: how long ago did u know about WebOS? Jun 13 04:31:14 that nda? Jun 13 04:31:15 ultraBlack: feel free :) I'll look into it Jun 13 04:31:22 Palm: quit saying nda, it's just annoying Jun 13 04:31:32 no problem sorry Jun 13 04:31:35 haha Jun 13 04:31:37 summatusmentis: I can't do it myself as I don't have editing permissions. :P Jun 13 04:31:42 i dont want u to cross a line u shouldnt Jun 13 04:31:42 i started at palm about a year and a half ago Jun 13 04:31:48 did u know about it thn Jun 13 04:31:49 then Jun 13 04:31:53 for the explicit purpose of working on pre Jun 13 04:31:54 geist: you were in the iPhone irc too? Jun 13 04:31:56 ultraBlack: I'm not sure I do either, but I'll check it out Jun 13 04:31:58 chron: yeah Jun 13 04:32:08 you should have stayed around Jun 13 04:32:22 what do you mean? Jun 13 04:32:24 you have no idea how riddled with noobs it is and how awesome it is to find people that know what they are doing :P Jun 13 04:32:32 geist: i am sure u have heard. but pre aside. webos is amazing. well done. :-) Jun 13 04:32:57 i'm glad folks are liking it Jun 13 04:33:07 we r loving it Jun 13 04:33:14 i hate the pre, to be honest, but love webOS Jun 13 04:33:21 the handset itself is just kinda ugly Jun 13 04:33:30 the pre is not the best design Jun 13 04:33:32 blasphemy! Jun 13 04:33:32 it seems to polarize some folks Jun 13 04:33:36 but the webos is amazing Jun 13 04:33:40 i personally think it's awesome Jun 13 04:33:48 keyboard? Jun 13 04:33:52 but it's also hard to really enjoy something that you know all the warts and problems with Jun 13 04:33:54 too small Jun 13 04:33:58 I'm very excited, I just need money to justify it Jun 13 04:34:15 when you work on something like this you always end up thinking about all the stuff you didn't do Jun 13 04:34:22 or things you should have done differently, etc Jun 13 04:34:34 tends to cloud an actual enjoyment of the product Jun 13 04:34:41 geist: at palm. is the kayboard a regret? Jun 13 04:34:59 i dont personally like it that much, but it doesn't bug me that much Jun 13 04:35:13 i'm not personally into landscape keyboards Jun 13 04:35:16 er portrait Jun 13 04:35:22 geist: i hope i adjust. but now it is too small. and too stiff. Jun 13 04:35:32 but, given the design of the product, i think it was a nice compromise Jun 13 04:35:48 landscape keyboards feel like they need too much reaching Jun 13 04:35:48 ie, if you make a device this physical size, you are severely constrained Jun 13 04:35:50 to me Jun 13 04:35:54 geist: i agree. i just think they could have spaced it a bit beter Jun 13 04:35:56 geist: just out of curiosity, was the konami code meant to be left in the firmware? :P Jun 13 04:35:58 exactly, landscape keyboards sell to a different market Jun 13 04:36:05 that is fucking awesome tho, either way :P Jun 13 04:36:16 which i think is a somewhat smaller market Jun 13 04:36:20 chron: good question. gesit. any insight? Jun 13 04:36:33 pro users tend to hate the little keyboards, but i think there are more slightly less pro users than pro ones Jun 13 04:36:36 etc Jun 13 04:36:50 i'm a pro user Jun 13 04:36:54 i like it, i want to code on it Jun 13 04:37:03 yep, like i said it doesn't bug me that much Jun 13 04:37:06 geist: was konami code meant to be left in? Jun 13 04:37:15 i dunno, talk to the peoeple that put it there Jun 13 04:37:22 it is so cool Jun 13 04:37:22 onscreen keyboard is the best, after using iphone. easility can switch to other languages or the emotocon keyboard all via software, versus having a hw keyboard Jun 13 04:37:30 meh Jun 13 04:37:35 just takes some getting used to, imo anyway Jun 13 04:37:45 I've drank the iPhone on-screen keyboard koolaid Jun 13 04:37:46 i usually did my assignments on my past treo via ssh Jun 13 04:37:46 the pre's form factor and keyboard are pretty much exactly like the old sharp zaurus Jun 13 04:37:47 I love it Jun 13 04:37:49 which i was very used to Jun 13 04:37:55 so the pre is a perfect fit for me Jun 13 04:37:57 is only the first chapter of that orielly book out ? Jun 13 04:38:08 opie: up to chapter 8 if you pay Jun 13 04:38:14 cyanidepoison: yeah, i can't stand regular cell phone keypads anymore Jun 13 04:38:15 ahh Jun 13 04:38:20 they released chap 8 already? Jun 13 04:38:21 but anyway, i dunno. i'm only talking what i personally feel. do not in any way derive anything about what palm may or may not want to do from my personal experience Jun 13 04:38:26 er, not 8 Jun 13 04:38:27 altho hardware keyboards like pre or blackberry are bareable Jun 13 04:38:33 i am so far away from design it is irrelevant Jun 13 04:38:33 oh you got me excited Jun 13 04:38:40 chron: did you ever get the bug where the keyboard on 3.0 would become invisible? Jun 13 04:38:40 lol Jun 13 04:38:46 geist: i know there r some debates. how powerful is the os itself. for example graphics wise? Jun 13 04:38:48 opie_: do you happen to recall who successfully rooted w/ win7 RC? Jun 13 04:38:54 I'm so good at it that I can type with an invisible keyboard on my iPhone :P Jun 13 04:38:55 cyanidepoison: yeah dude, it's wierd Jun 13 04:38:58 djwhitey: sorry i forget, check the log Jun 13 04:39:01 haha same Jun 13 04:39:02 anyone know the log link? Jun 13 04:39:02 * o0zeno0o is away: (automatically dead ) [BX-MsgLog Off] Jun 13 04:39:02 Palm: like i was saying before, i tend to only comment on stuff that folks figured out Jun 13 04:39:03 * o0zeno0o is idle, automatically dead [bX(l/on p/off)] Jun 13 04:39:08 I haven't gotten it in 3.0GM yet Jun 13 04:39:13 vague things like why we did this or that or what we're gonna do is off limits Jun 13 04:39:13 it happened all the time in beta4 though Jun 13 04:39:16 i had trouble using the russian keyboard on "invisible mdoe" tho Jun 13 04:39:19 ohh, djwhitey: it's in the topic Jun 13 04:39:21 lol Jun 13 04:39:29 o0zeno0o: lose the away announce. Jun 13 04:39:43 chron: you're russian? Jun 13 04:40:08 nope Jun 13 04:40:10 learning it Jun 13 04:40:14 hmm... I need a good file editor. Notpad and Wordpad just don't seem cool enough to be looking at the webOS files. Jun 13 04:40:18 ah Jun 13 04:40:22 geist: i respect that. maybe i misphrased because i do not think i crossed a line. how about this. do you personally think graphic rich games could be made? (like for that of the iPhone) by the pre hack community? Jun 13 04:40:24 Kaerey: vim Jun 13 04:40:25 if i was, i would be fine with russian keyboard and have trouble with american one on invisible :P Jun 13 04:40:25 notepad++ Jun 13 04:40:41 ha yeah that makes sense Jun 13 04:40:47 Palm: i have my opinions, but since i work at palm that may be construed as being a 'what are we going to do in the future', therefore i wont comment on it Jun 13 04:40:52 has anyone successfully rooted a pre on Win7 x64? Jun 13 04:41:00 geist: no problem Jun 13 04:41:03 thanks anyway Jun 13 04:41:17 Palm: quit bugging the employees :-P Jun 13 04:41:28 heh, you're just taking away time from me levelling my priest Jun 13 04:41:44 chron: do you use IDA in a VM on a mac or do you actually have a computer that runs windows? Jun 13 04:41:44 they r so skilled i cannot help but ask questions Jun 13 04:41:52 i am so interested int his Jun 13 04:41:57 i was so happy to learn that the background on the phone can be changed :-p Jun 13 04:41:59 geist: will world of warcraft ever be ported to the pre?! Jun 13 04:42:05 hah, i wish Jun 13 04:42:12 me 2 Jun 13 04:42:14 actually probably would be a terrible idea :) Jun 13 04:42:24 nah f fr Jun 13 04:42:25 can I say that for the sake of humanity, WoW should never be ported to the Pre? Jun 13 04:42:32 but anyway, on a purely technical level, it's probably not faster of it Jun 13 04:42:33 Geist, my guild is kind of pissed at you all... i was supposed to be tanking Hodir and Thorim last night... but I was "busy" Jun 13 04:42:36 faster for it Jun 13 04:42:50 fast enough for it? Jun 13 04:42:54 Palm: if he knows something for fact, he cannot comment on his opinion/guess on it, that would get him in trobule Jun 13 04:43:03 yeah, my brain is not working right now Jun 13 04:43:05 i'll show you, i'm gonna port id tech 5 Jun 13 04:43:05 cyanide: IDA via parallels Jun 13 04:43:10 there was an iPhone "port" of wow that basically played a live mirror from a PC Jun 13 04:43:11 chron i know Jun 13 04:43:19 within plus or minus 10 years Jun 13 04:43:19 that kind of thing could prob conceivably go to the pre Jun 13 04:43:26 i was simply stating i love the ability to customize th ebackground Jun 13 04:43:27 lol Jun 13 04:43:42 but on a purely technical level, the cortex-a8 at about 500mhz with a 256KB cache is roughly equivalent to a pentium 3 at 500 Jun 13 04:43:50 which is well below the minimum to run something like wow Jun 13 04:44:07 whats faster Pre or 3GS Jun 13 04:44:18 i do not know the hw specs of that device Jun 13 04:44:27 Palm: same chip AFAIK. Jun 13 04:44:33 comparable Jun 13 04:44:35 s/chip/core/ Jun 13 04:44:36 but locked down Jun 13 04:44:38 no Jun 13 04:44:40 same core Jun 13 04:44:41 different chip Jun 13 04:44:42 3GS uses OMAP3430 Jun 13 04:44:42 so, same thing Jun 13 04:44:45 really? Jun 13 04:44:45 no konami code i assure you ;-) Jun 13 04:44:47 uh Jun 13 04:44:49 no Jun 13 04:44:50 chron: yeah, I corrected myself :) Jun 13 04:44:51 :P Jun 13 04:44:53 lol Jun 13 04:44:54 probably, cortex-a8 is the current high end ARM core offering Jun 13 04:45:07 oh the 3GS would be so much fun if I could afford one Jun 13 04:45:10 iPhone3G[s] uses a samsung proc dude Jun 13 04:45:18 it'll be ipt2g all over again Jun 13 04:45:28 but it's a 600mhz A8 also. Jun 13 04:45:37 cyanidepoison: except iRecovery is already made Jun 13 04:45:46 and the 0x24000 segment overflow is probably still there :) Jun 13 04:45:54 and i bet kernel signature check is still broken Jun 13 04:45:56 hopefully Jun 13 04:46:05 so it would be VERY easy to pwn, via itunes actually Jun 13 04:46:22 pass1.ipsw == patched llb for overflow, patched firmware for rsa check, custom logo and what have you Jun 13 04:46:28 I think three months is enough time to fix the bootloader Jun 13 04:46:32 pass2.ipsw == patched ramdisk+rootfs Jun 13 04:46:34 but maybe it is still there Jun 13 04:46:34 boom :) Jun 13 04:46:40 no Jun 13 04:46:41 its bootrom dude Jun 13 04:46:47 if their new thing is a cotex-a8 with L2 cache, the primary reason for the speed up is the L@ Jun 13 04:46:50 L2 Jun 13 04:46:54 and everyone has kept quite about kernel sigcheck being broken :P Jun 13 04:47:01 in the pre if you turn off the L2 it slows down by around 3x or so, which is about right Jun 13 04:47:24 it would cost them a bunch extra to redo bootrom, especially when they already started field testing in octoberr, with mass field testing in march Jun 13 04:47:28 an arm11 orwhatnot with only 16/16KB cache is totally cache starved until you put a 'large' L2 cache in front of it Jun 13 04:47:42 so in the last year or so the newer gen arm cores are starting to get somewhat competitive Jun 13 04:47:52 i prefer arm11 Jun 13 04:47:55 oh yeah, bootrom = hardware. they'd be making new devices Jun 13 04:47:58 simpler and neater to reverse :P Jun 13 04:48:04 so it'd take longer to test Jun 13 04:48:13 gotcha. I'm movin' slowly today Jun 13 04:48:16 cyanidepoison: they had the device _finished_ in july Jun 13 04:48:21 field testing in october Jun 13 04:48:28 mass carrier field testing in march Jun 13 04:48:31 so yeah Jun 13 04:48:43 chron: can I ask where you learned this stuff? Jun 13 04:49:03 they can't just change it like that. hw is different, exploit remains tho most likely Jun 13 04:49:13 cummatusmentis: self taught Jun 13 04:49:19 never went to college yet or anything Jun 13 04:49:23 geist: so you worked with some of the android team in the past? Jun 13 04:49:26 geist: so who's the guy at palm with the PALM PRE license plate? http://polpo.org/tmp/palmprelicenseplate.jpg Jun 13 04:49:28 just reading arm reference manuals and reading stuff on the net Jun 13 04:49:29 yeah, most of them Jun 13 04:49:44 i get lunch and coffee with them all the time Jun 13 04:49:48 google is about a mile away Jun 13 04:49:54 LarrySteeze: you around? Jun 13 04:49:56 i saw that guy while getting my car washed Jun 13 04:49:56 *summatusmentis Jun 13 04:50:09 interesting that you had some of the same approaches but kernel is so different Jun 13 04:50:21 chron: self taught, hrm. Very cool Jun 13 04:50:22 yeah, i know. we have a philosophical divide with that Jun 13 04:50:30 chron: what're you planning to study in college? my parents are like "you'll never make any money doing CS or anything related to it" Jun 13 04:50:33 and they decided to rewrite everything for the apache license Jun 13 04:50:41 i think their approach is to minimize GPL exposure as much as possible, since they're tyrig to get tons of vendors to go make phones with it Jun 13 04:50:43 I don't know what to do :/ Jun 13 04:50:49 and most of the industry is still deathly afraid of GPL Jun 13 04:50:58 GPL is a _virus_ Jun 13 04:51:00 most of userland stuff that's normally gnu or busybox/ulibc Jun 13 04:51:06 right Jun 13 04:51:12 cyanidepoison: if i do go, most likely will major in CS, minor in EE Jun 13 04:51:28 then get a job at Apple or Palm Jun 13 04:51:35 why wouldn't you go to college? Jun 13 04:51:37 it's a blast Jun 13 04:51:56 yeah, college can be fun Jun 13 04:52:00 I go to a college prep-school, so if I didn't go to college I'd be disowned for sure Jun 13 04:52:13 it's a great chance to grow up and learn how to socialize Jun 13 04:52:18 college can be fun if you go somewhere where there are actually people Jun 13 04:52:27 Does anyone have a problem with their Pre that they think will be fixed on the next run of devices off the line? In other words should I wait a few weeks / months to get my Pre? Jun 13 04:52:37 "small town liberal arts school" sounds really cool, but if you like people, DON'T DO IT Jun 13 04:54:29 Palm: the quoted text when replying to emails that pass through an exchange 2003 server get completely snafu'd Jun 13 04:54:52 and it's supposed to be fixed <= 60 days from yesterday Jun 13 04:55:00 the problem with gl is there is not likely to be a header for whatever sgx library is available if any Jun 13 04:55:14 I am talking more hardware problems Jun 13 04:55:27 That may be fixed on the next assembly line run Jun 13 04:55:38 oh. none to report here =) Jun 13 04:55:45 Anyone else? Jun 13 04:55:54 mine was made 5/23 also Jun 13 04:55:55 go read about the openpandora then, there are some interesting threads on beyond3d or somewhere else Jun 13 04:56:03 hardware problems? Jun 13 04:56:16 yeah. anyoen have hardware problems? Jun 13 04:56:38 Palm: I heard some people complaining that the Pre reboot if you snap it open or close too hard... i haven't experienced it though Jun 13 04:56:39 I don't have hardware, that's a problem Jun 13 04:56:55 tmzt++ Jun 13 04:56:58 battery? Jun 13 04:57:06 woohoo.. got my first app installed.. time to go to town on this thing. :) Jun 13 04:57:13 what app? Jun 13 04:57:21 congrats man Jun 13 04:57:34 anyone else successful with Win 7 RC (7100) x86 ? Jun 13 04:57:57 just helloworld + a few ui widgets... i have two apps i'm gunna start building now though.. i wanted to make sure i had all the steps down first before i dedicated too much time to developing. Jun 13 04:58:22 djwhitey, I had to install a XP image via vmware to talk to my pre Jun 13 04:58:39 hrm doesn't 7100 have an emulation mode somehwere Jun 13 04:58:47 EvanPro: what are you working on? Jun 13 04:58:54 has anyone found a way to remove the redundant launcher button in the dock? I'm working on it now, but if someone's done it already no need to duplicate the effort? Jun 13 04:58:57 im having no luck with Win7 x64 either Jun 13 04:59:00 chron: the guided tour video of the 3GS makes me drool a little Jun 13 04:59:25 i remember seeing articles with screenshots of win7 emulating xp natively... where oh where Jun 13 04:59:27 the only thing that really makes me want a 3GS is the supposedly good battery life Jun 13 04:59:27 until we know what cpu/baseband it is it's just not interesting Jun 13 04:59:30 cyanidepoison: why? in case you get lost in the woods and need to know which way is north while your not moving? Jun 13 04:59:43 cyanidepoison: it would cost me $700 Jun 13 04:59:48 me too Jun 13 04:59:50 because I am not eliglble Jun 13 04:59:54 so I am not getting on Jun 13 05:00:00 AriX is tho, so we can test hax on his :) Jun 13 05:00:04 what an exciting platform. i hope palm keeps it atleast as open as it is now Jun 13 05:00:06 nice Jun 13 05:00:29 I heard they were letting you in at subsidized price if you extend your contract, have you heard of that? Jun 13 05:00:30 EvanPro: you mind contributing to the wiki about it when you get the chance? Jun 13 05:00:30 the autofocus built into the camera is kinda neat... and cropping video on the phone.. but stuff like that means soooo little to me when it comes to my phone. tere was no value added to the 3gs except the processor. Jun 13 05:00:55 the iTouch runs a 500mhz proc, it's snappy as all hell Jun 13 05:01:16 and I waited in line on release day for the 3G... I don't think I can handle that again though Jun 13 05:01:27 has bluetooth ever been enabled? Jun 13 05:01:36 even in linux Jun 13 05:01:55 tmzt: it's suppose to be in os 3.0, i don't know about linux Jun 13 05:02:15 I mean in the touch 2g Jun 13 05:02:18 i haven't looked at the sdk, but suppose to be able to do adhoc chat and such Jun 13 05:02:40 I didn't get 1g because no dun client Jun 13 05:02:55 not sure, i haven't looked, i just jailbroke my touch2g couple nights ago. I wanted to stream some tv over vlc Jun 13 05:02:56 ShinAli: sure if you'd like to give me write access i will try to make some time tomorrow to... my goal is to make an app for you guys so you can just upload your apps to my server and it will make them available / install them... a psuedo homebrew app catalog while we wait for the sdk. Jun 13 05:03:03 ghost armor on, kind of a pita to get on without bubbles and the corners were difficult. we shall see. Jun 13 05:03:42 what? Jun 13 05:03:46 LOL ok I think I found my favorite code comment so far: Jun 13 05:04:04 dreadchicken: i ordered invisibleshield.... don't mind the orange peel effect myself.. makes me feel like it's more durable lol. Jun 13 05:04:22 * djwhitey waiting on best skins ever Jun 13 05:04:38 oh, for some reason I thought you were talking about software Jun 13 05:04:47 BSA == InvisibleShield... although some say it's a slightly cheaper material. Jun 13 05:04:49 "On the offchance that the user hits the 'minimize' before we finished capture ... slimy bastard users." Jun 13 05:05:03 lol Jun 13 05:05:09 camera? Jun 13 05:05:12 yeah Jun 13 05:05:31 Kaerey: that was found like the first hour of the OS image being found ,lol Jun 13 05:05:35 it must be rendering direct to framebuffer somehow Jun 13 05:05:40 Oh LOL still funny Jun 13 05:05:42 might involve dsp Jun 13 05:05:56 Kaerey: grep the linux kernel sources for curse words... it is entertaining Jun 13 05:06:23 I saw that there r webservers that run on the pre. how? Jun 13 05:06:34 they aren't web servers Jun 13 05:06:41 if you are talking about services Jun 13 05:06:46 the palm:// services Jun 13 05:06:47 there could be though, easily Jun 13 05:07:00 ForceSalvage = UseTheForceLuke(fileSysPath); Jun 13 05:07:07 from OpenAFS source code Jun 13 05:07:08 there sure could be Jun 13 05:07:15 I am talking about how someone is hosting a publicly accesable web server from their pre Jun 13 05:07:15 EvanPro: did you get my pm? Jun 13 05:07:30 ohh Jun 13 05:07:51 yep, rwhitby sent me the same. thanks. Jun 13 05:07:51 How? Jun 13 05:07:59 ah alright Jun 13 05:08:00 running apache or something? Jun 13 05:08:16 I am unsure. and am asking Jun 13 05:08:29 yeah, that was just a guess Jun 13 05:08:33 just go compile and httpd you want and it'll run Jun 13 05:08:33 Palm: it's a linux sub-system, you can install packages just like any other linux system Jun 13 05:08:33 what is the staus of tethering Jun 13 05:08:51 member:summatusmentis: which package would this be Jun 13 05:09:19 "I was going to go with '42', but if there are any other "Hitchhikers" fans out there, it's more likely to cause a problem." I love the guy who wrote the camera app Jun 13 05:09:29 Palm, i'm pretty sure i ran the first one and showed it to a few people here and at palm. Jun 13 05:09:40 Palm: some people have figured out how to tether, but the owners of this channel don't want to be involved in things that might piss off the carrier Jun 13 05:10:03 Where should I go then? Jun 13 05:10:09 google? Jun 13 05:10:15 no luck Jun 13 05:10:16 lol^ Jun 13 05:10:46 ./topic Jun 13 05:11:07 dreadchicken: hows the screen feel? Jun 13 05:11:18 * djwhitey waits on VirtualXP to download. :( Jun 13 05:11:38 nice, but it's ugly right now...says it takes 24 hours to completely clear up. Jun 13 05:11:55 Palm: the /topic of this channel has an alternate channel (which we have no associated with) for any non-legit discussion Jun 13 05:11:57 So, have peeps been able to figure out how to use qemu to run the image? Jun 13 05:12:07 holy fuck. Jun 13 05:12:14 joshhunt: no one, that I'm aware of Jun 13 05:12:14 I got tethering working. Jun 13 05:12:25 summatusmentis: damn Jun 13 05:12:28 ha, speaking of... Jun 13 05:12:37 joshhunt: yeah, me too :( Jun 13 05:12:50 my position on tethering discussion is: Jun 13 05:13:00 1) discussion of normal linux iptables commands should be no problem Jun 13 05:13:07 anyone know what com.palm.app.mojave is Jun 13 05:13:09 dreadchicken: its not grippy or anything? i've felt an invisible shield and it was kind of annoying Jun 13 05:13:23 All you need is a wifi access point. Jun 13 05:13:29 2) discussion of how to modify a modem firmware file to get around some Sprint limitation should be off limits Jun 13 05:13:46 ShinAli, it does feel a little bit grippy...but minimally. i'll know more tomorrow when it cures. Jun 13 05:13:55 Sargun: and probably an understanding of iptables nat rules Jun 13 05:14:08 mikeDOTd, noooo Jun 13 05:14:33 Sargun: so I'll just carry a router around with me at all times Jun 13 05:14:33 If tethering is as easy as setting ip_forward, then it's between the user and Sprint whether changing that constitutes a violation of TOS. Jun 13 05:15:29 Sargun: ah, right. i see. Jun 13 05:15:43 there are many legit reasons to modify the iptables configuration of the Pre. Jun 13 05:15:52 yeah, makes things interesting Jun 13 05:16:28 summatusmentis, yeah, why nott? Jun 13 05:16:31 and when the unlocked GSM version is released by Palm, iptables stuff will be absolutely kosher, since most GSM carriers don't have stupid data limitations on plans Jun 13 05:16:49 at least one palm person has suggested that messing with fw was a bad idea. Jun 13 05:17:13 bed for me, 'night all Jun 13 05:17:16 i'm cool with that. Jun 13 05:17:16 fw is firmware Jun 13 05:17:19 night Jun 13 05:17:22 not forwared Jun 13 05:17:24 what's the smallest way to get 2.5 amps @ 5v Jun 13 05:17:29 dreadchicken: we have been politely cautioned by palm folks in authority that messing with modem firmware will cause people to take notice. Jun 13 05:17:39 exactly Jun 13 05:17:56 that's always been the case Jun 13 05:18:03 guess who? Jun 13 05:18:04 we'll leave the unlocking to another group of hackers Jun 13 05:18:07 omghax Jun 13 05:18:07 Somebody will make a tethering app... it wont be from this channel and it wont be this week I would think. Jun 13 05:18:18 that's why the brightline between ap and bp is so important Jun 13 05:18:22 i have no desire raise that flag and have it point here. Jun 13 05:18:39 did rik sagar write every single file in the webOS, jebus Jun 13 05:18:54 huh? Jun 13 05:19:07 dumb question, in the menu-drag customization, do the commands need to c&p like: oldappmenu, olddevicemenu, newappmenu, newdevicemenu; or is it: oldappmenu, newappmenu, olddevicemenu, newdevicemenu Jun 13 05:19:08 opie_: what is the header on the js files? Jun 13 05:19:09 What I want to see is better audio streaming... what comes in the phone sucks. Jun 13 05:19:20 somehow my appmenu's have disappeared Jun 13 05:19:22 this guys name is in @author of every other file Jun 13 05:19:31 Lurking_Grue: you have pulseaudio Jun 13 05:19:46 Pulseaudio? think I missed that. Jun 13 05:19:51 opie_: copyright/license Jun 13 05:20:05 Lurking_Grue: streaming from or to? Jun 13 05:20:08 usr\palm\command-resource-handlers.json Jun 13 05:20:16 btw, ez-ipupdate runs fine on ppp0 Jun 13 05:20:25 Streaming to the phone... Pick up internet radio better. Jun 13 05:20:29 i want to download mp3s instead of stream Jun 13 05:20:55 over evdo even Jun 13 05:21:26 i noticed that it streamed earlier tonight too Jun 13 05:21:38 ugh. i would love to do some tinkering and dev work for the pre Jun 13 05:21:44 but i am in aus. and i lack the sdk :P Jun 13 05:21:54 everyone lacks the sdk buddy Jun 13 05:23:11 joshhunt: the thing you need is doctor Jun 13 05:23:26 until we have another implementation of novacom Jun 13 05:24:00 opie_: By that i ment that i have no way to run the code: no pre, no emu Jun 13 05:24:09 ah, you need a pre :-) Jun 13 05:24:11 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/185206-possible-tether-work-around.html#post1669865 Jun 13 05:24:17 oops Jun 13 05:24:21 yeah. pre isnt out in aus yet :P Jun 13 05:25:02 still trying to get rooted in win7... rebooting for virtualxp Jun 13 05:25:02 joshhunt: gotcha Jun 13 05:25:13 same dj lol Jun 13 05:25:13 give me a website to try to tether with Jun 13 05:25:54 there's actually no point in calling it tethering Jun 13 05:26:25 think of when NAT routers became popular in broadband internet Jun 13 05:26:44 before they were supported by the providers Jun 13 05:27:01 now they all sell a wifi router or similar Jun 13 05:27:03 holy fucking shit Jun 13 05:27:09 I officially got tethering working Jun 13 05:27:12 I have no idea how Jun 13 05:27:15 but I did Jun 13 05:27:19 (100% honest) Jun 13 05:27:22 hmmm Jun 13 05:27:25 * opie_ scratches his head Jun 13 05:27:27 with cdc-acm? Jun 13 05:27:29 tethering in what sense? Jun 13 05:27:33 like, it just started working Jun 13 05:27:39 tethering over bluetooth Jun 13 05:27:46 pan? Jun 13 05:27:47 neat! Jun 13 05:27:49 tmzt, yeah Jun 13 05:27:55 now, to recreate what I did Jun 13 05:27:57 again Jun 13 05:27:59 are you sure you aren't just on wifi? Jun 13 05:28:06 iptables -t nat -L Jun 13 05:28:06 speak no more, before you anger the capitalist gods Jun 13 05:29:01 1224.171 PRV return 115 com.palm.connectionmanager com.palm.luna ??string=?{ "isBtPanToInternetRouteUp": false, "isPanClientConnected": Jun 13 05:29:01 true, "networkPath": "autherror" }??? Jun 13 05:29:07 I mean, it threw the error Jun 13 05:29:33 * Sargun is thoroughly confused Jun 13 05:30:35 SargunTe2her: back for more? Jun 13 05:33:12 so uh Jun 13 05:33:16 i try to run talk.py, and get errors Jun 13 05:33:59 but it didn't squeak did it? Jun 13 05:34:13 no, none of that Jun 13 05:34:16 Traceback (most recent call last): Jun 13 05:34:16 File "C:\Documents and Settings\brandon\Desktop\PalmPre\rooter\talk.py", line Jun 13 05:34:16 48, in Jun 13 05:34:16 port = getport() Jun 13 05:34:16 File "C:\Documents and Settings\brandon\Desktop\PalmPre\rooter\talk.py", line Jun 13 05:34:16 27, in getport Jun 13 05:34:18 return int(portnum) Jun 13 05:34:20 ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '' Jun 13 05:34:33 uhm... Jun 13 05:34:41 * Sargun really regrets programming that so badly Jun 13 05:34:48 * oil has no hard feelings Jun 13 05:35:05 Yeah, I should fix that in novaproxy too. Jun 13 05:36:51 chron: if you're around, are there specific iPhone plugins for IDA that people have written or do you just chose something out of the list that comes with IDA? Jun 13 05:40:30 i don't know how to answer that Jun 13 05:40:37 you just choose ARM from the top of the list :) Jun 13 05:40:46 also, if someone wants to be my hero, i need some help Jun 13 05:40:55 what is the thumb opcode for MOV R4, R0 Jun 13 05:42:21 Why are you trying to write code in thumb? Nothing on pre is compiled that way... Jun 13 05:42:31 joshhunt: when you're in .au and can't get a Pre (like me), just start an IRC channel and get other people to write the code for you ... ;-) Jun 13 05:42:44 hah Jun 13 05:42:56 cdm: not true, bootie is in thumb2 Jun 13 05:42:58 cdm: hahaha Jun 13 05:43:36 Yes, thumb2 Jun 13 05:43:59 ugh -- not good to hack on bootie too much... Jun 13 05:44:00 thumb2 is an extension of thumb, it includes all the old opcodes Jun 13 05:44:12 webOS Doctor won't fix ya if you muck it up Jun 13 05:44:12 anyone know the thumb opcode for MOV R4, R0? Jun 13 05:44:29 cdm: uh...couldn't you just fix boot.bin? Jun 13 05:44:49 chron: if you screw it up, the doctor can't recover Jun 13 05:44:50 boot.bin isn't actually the bootloader that is used. Jun 13 05:45:00 it's a copy of it Jun 13 05:45:22 Friends don't let friends reflash bootloaders without confirmed JTAG access ... Jun 13 05:45:23 cdm: no Jun 13 05:45:23 the real bootloader lives outside the fs Jun 13 05:45:36 chron: yes. Jun 13 05:45:39 cdm: oh wait, nvm, mistread Jun 13 05:45:45 my bad, its 2am :P Jun 13 05:45:48 geist: nor? Jun 13 05:45:49 no worries. Jun 13 05:45:59 outside the fs Jun 13 05:46:01 given that geist and I wrote the tools and the bootloader.... we know Jun 13 05:46:05 ah Jun 13 05:46:20 wait Jun 13 05:46:25 anyways, don't mess with it. It will put you in a bad place. Jun 13 05:46:26 so this does not have any kind of DFU mode? Jun 13 05:46:45 it does, but the doctor currently doesn't handle it Jun 13 05:46:55 yeah no prob, chainload is safer for loading bootie's Jun 13 05:47:02 it only does a level 1 recover Jun 13 05:47:04 * djwhitey just successfully rooted the Pre using VirtualXP w/ Windows 7 x86 RC build 7100 Jun 13 05:47:06 and that would answer that Jun 13 05:47:06 =) Jun 13 05:47:19 bbiab Jun 13 05:47:37 geist: ah Jun 13 05:48:01 Dj: I did that on win 7 but I used Vmware running XP. (I was too lazy to reboot into xp) Jun 13 05:48:01 to do a full recovery you have to catch it without the bootloader present Jun 13 05:48:11 which is feasible with an omap Jun 13 05:48:14 g'evening everyone Jun 13 05:48:16 but a pain on windows Jun 13 05:48:20 like everything else Jun 13 05:48:29 vanadium = duvallg = vanadium Jun 13 05:48:50 wait, does anyone know what mode the whole "hold volume up while plugging into usb" thing puts it in? Jun 13 05:49:05 that's bootie Jun 13 05:49:09 ah Jun 13 05:49:30 the initial logo is drawn by bootie Jun 13 05:49:34 same with holding "x"? i heard about holding that somewhere would put it in some type of recovery, is that the same? Jun 13 05:49:38 ah Jun 13 05:49:52 that's an old string, it's vol+ now Jun 13 05:49:56 used to be x Jun 13 05:50:06 ah Jun 13 05:50:43 i gotta find a way to get one of these things contract free Jun 13 05:50:53 chron: $850 Jun 13 05:50:58 with the power of unsigned "go" and some peeking/poking, shoudln't be too hard :P Jun 13 05:51:01 ah damn Jun 13 05:51:16 i know some ppl with them, so i can have them test stuff :P Jun 13 05:51:17 chron: it's much easier than that once you figure it out Jun 13 05:51:28 i gave you a lot more features that you dont realize yet Jun 13 05:51:33 sign a contract, pay for a month, cancel and pay the ETF Jun 13 05:51:55 unless it's different with a pre you'd come in at ~$500 Jun 13 05:52:24 geist: it would be more fun to find their version of SecureROM than to just find out how to get into the mode :P Jun 13 05:53:07 or i'll just wait for the next webOS doctor that supports the protocol, if i am too busy with iphone stuff. then i could just reverse the protocol and mess around w/ it Jun 13 05:54:06 their version of securerom? who is 'they'? Jun 13 05:54:07 i cant seem to get VirtualXP in Win7 to work... any other methods of rooting this pre of mine? Jun 13 05:54:15 geist: was I correct in thinking that changing to boot logo was as simple as changing the image file in webOS.tar and letting it do its thing? Jun 13 05:54:29 cyanidepoison: no comment Jun 13 05:54:33 lol Jun 13 05:54:40 cyanidepoison: try it :P Jun 13 05:54:47 geist: palm, or you, or whatever :P Jun 13 05:54:53 if I had a pre I would Jun 13 05:54:56 i mean, the fallback mode, when i say that Jun 13 05:55:08 like, the permanant, in ROM fallback recovery mode, like DFU Jun 13 05:55:12 yep Jun 13 05:55:38 Hm Jun 13 05:57:46 chron: we heard partiton1 and that's what we are not supposed to change Jun 13 05:58:06 there be dragons there Jun 13 05:58:22 it's our Europa Jun 13 05:58:24 chron: also that the omap has it's own bootloader in flash that chains to the sd Jun 13 05:58:46 is it possible to "dump" partition1? Jun 13 05:58:55 dd? Jun 13 05:59:02 is it encrypted? Jun 13 05:59:14 fdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0 will be nice also Jun 13 05:59:15 wait, is this like a hidden thing? or just the read only rootfs? Jun 13 05:59:28 it will probably explain lvm Jun 13 05:59:29 no Jun 13 05:59:37 rootfs is partition 2 Jun 13 05:59:47 media is 3 I think Jun 13 06:00:06 or one of the bios partitions is lvm Jun 13 06:00:17 which is why I need fdisk -l Jun 13 06:00:53 hmm Jun 13 06:01:04 anyone wanna dump partition1? i would like to take a look Jun 13 06:01:05 you could also look at usb otg Jun 13 06:01:31 also hopefully i can covince my friend to send his palm pre to a vietnamese guy i know to dump the nor :P Jun 13 06:01:34 it might need a detect pin for micro, no idea how that works Jun 13 06:01:47 what nor? Jun 13 06:02:39 chron: read the logs from the first day Jun 13 06:02:55 I can put my copies of the pastebins somewhere maybe Jun 13 06:02:56 where? Jun 13 06:03:01 ok sure Jun 13 06:03:05 nslu2-linux Jun 13 06:03:19 let me sort through them Jun 13 06:08:13 What happened, the channel got all silent all of a sudden Jun 13 06:08:24 bpadalino, you here Jun 13 06:09:02 * djwhitey rattles the cage Jun 13 06:09:17 djwhitey, what are you upto Jun 13 06:09:40 just finished rooting it, making devmode icon visible, and exiting devmode Jun 13 06:09:50 verified that dropbear's still up & running Jun 13 06:10:12 and now going to brb as I go dance a little jig outside in celebration Jun 13 06:10:38 many kudos for you btw for writing talk.py =) Jun 13 06:11:19 * oil wishes it would work for him Jun 13 06:11:29 oil, ok, I'm taking a break Jun 13 06:11:34 oil, so, did you install the driver? Jun 13 06:11:41 and what OS are you running? Jun 13 06:11:41 yeah Jun 13 06:11:43 xp Jun 13 06:11:53 did you put your pre into dev mode? Jun 13 06:12:08 upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart Jun 13 06:12:11 yeah Jun 13 06:12:20 ok, in device manager, do you see "palm novacom" Jun 13 06:12:48 let me hook it back up Jun 13 06:14:27 nope Jun 13 06:14:43 one of them has an exclamation point Jun 13 06:15:43 * oil re-installs the drivers Jun 13 06:15:49 djwhitey: installed ipkg-opt yet? Jun 13 06:16:00 Looking for someone to test the latest instructions. Jun 13 06:16:09 i haven't Jun 13 06:16:10 Needs to be from-scratch. Jun 13 06:16:37 i was just gonna try to use the Web app to connect to webmin on a home server, then from webmin ssh back to the phone Jun 13 06:16:59 djwhitey: ah, you've installed dropbear already - I need someone earlier than that. Jun 13 06:17:45 the idea is that the http://predev.wikidot.com/backdoor page is going to be removed, and replaced in the root instructions directly by http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 13 06:18:11 never liked the connotations of that Jun 13 06:18:40 if I install a ssh server on my own linux computer I don't consider it a backdoor Jun 13 06:19:15 rwhitby: why ipkg-opt? Jun 13 06:20:20 djwhitey: so it doesn't muck with palm's internal ipkg database and mess up OTA update Jun 13 06:20:36 tmzt: exactly Jun 13 06:22:27 is there a way to force wifi on while phone is sleeping? Jun 13 06:22:48 oil: when you've got root, let me know so we can do your installation properly and fix the wiki instructions as we go. Jun 13 06:23:28 rw: I just went though the instructions. Jun 13 06:23:31 hello Jun 13 06:23:47 Lurking_Grue: which instructions? Jun 13 06:23:58 what port does the pre listen to when i'm trying to telnet into it? Jun 13 06:23:58 i.e. if you did the backdoor page, that's no good. Jun 13 06:24:07 adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 13 06:24:29 Lurking_Grue: the ones at the top, or the from scratch ones? Jun 13 06:24:45 Ones at the top as I was removing it. Jun 13 06:24:54 Anyone got any good places to look, to disable the backlight when charging? Jun 13 06:24:58 or is that hardware? Jun 13 06:25:50 can anyone give me some instructions on how to successfully telnet into my pre? i'm having some trouble Jun 13 06:26:29 rw: I admit I was cutting and pasting until I got to the "rm -rf /tmp/ipkg" command ;) Jun 13 06:27:07 dang Jun 13 06:27:09 Ok, we need a faster reboot Jun 13 06:27:24 It's all pretty cool, but if it takes 5 minutes to reboot your phone... Jun 13 06:27:34 webmin method of ssh'ing back to phone from phone's browser not seeming to jive right now Jun 13 06:27:54 is 22 the proper port? Jun 13 06:28:04 Host key verification failed. Jun 13 06:29:08 ...it was 23, thanks Jun 13 06:29:27 djwhitey, delete the key in your ssh cache Jun 13 06:30:26 Sargun: how? Jun 13 06:33:10 too bad browser doesn't support java Jun 13 06:33:20 Hmm .. could this be it? suspend_with_charger = true Jun 13 06:33:20 hmm Jun 13 06:33:48 when i'm hacking i turn off the display manager ;) Jun 13 06:33:57 takes care of sleep issues! Jun 13 06:34:17 no, i want it to go to sleep i.e. when it's on the touchstone.. i don't need another clock :) Jun 13 06:34:31 if it's charging and I'm sleeping .. i dont need to watch it Jun 13 06:34:39 I FIGURED IT OUT Jun 13 06:34:42 YES YES YES! Jun 13 06:34:45 I'm fucking amazing. Jun 13 06:34:48 sarg? Jun 13 06:34:51 wad ya do Jun 13 06:35:21 quick question: how do i make the pre play sounds from ssh? Jun 13 06:35:33 is touchstone included? Jun 13 06:35:40 tmz no Jun 13 06:35:47 didn't think so Jun 13 06:36:00 how does it attach/replace battery? Jun 13 06:36:34 The back cover is replaced Jun 13 06:36:38 on the phone Jun 13 06:36:53 it has a coil inside of it, with 4 alignment magnets Jun 13 06:36:54 so there are conductors in the snaps or whatever Jun 13 06:36:56 when i go to download dropbear i get HTML/1.1 404 Not Found error Jun 13 06:37:03 then you just set it on the stone.. Jun 13 06:37:07 is the link in the wiki dead? Jun 13 06:37:18 yeah, I mean how does the door connect? Jun 13 06:37:19 Brenner change the -4 to -5 in the file name Jun 13 06:37:31 it was incremented one revision Jun 13 06:38:00 can someone tell me the command to make this silly thing play a sound from ssh Jun 13 06:38:03 ok, thanks. someone should prob update Jun 13 06:38:17 install nano while you're at it Jun 13 06:38:21 nano rocks Jun 13 06:38:22 :) Jun 13 06:38:26 hehe Jun 13 06:38:32 * djwhitey credits disc` Jun 13 06:38:32 i even symlinked nano to pico :) since i grew up on pico Jun 13 06:38:45 * disc` stole it shamelessly from the wiki Jun 13 06:38:51 * djwhitey uses vi for brain exersising Jun 13 06:39:00 Brenner: the 'backdoor' page is obsolete. Jun 13 06:39:13 vi causes undue stress to me, and since i quit smoking ... i quit using vi Jun 13 06:39:14 :) Jun 13 06:39:15 rwhitby, is it? Jun 13 06:39:18 If you follow the new instructions, using ipkg-opt, then you don't need to use the version number for dropbear Jun 13 06:39:25 matter of fact i used vi for editing the appinfo.json without even thinking about it Jun 13 06:39:31 Sargun: yeah, get root, install ipkg-opt, use ipkg-opt from there on. Jun 13 06:39:34 for the devmode app Jun 13 06:39:40 No need for manual installation of dropbear. Jun 13 06:39:54 (and don't mess with Palm's internal ipkg database) Jun 13 06:40:24 is that what we did first off (mess with Palm's ipkg db?) Jun 13 06:40:24 rwhitby do you know what command makes it play a notification Jun 13 06:40:35 something like palm://<> Jun 13 06:40:36 djwhitey: I don't have a Pre. Jun 13 06:44:35 There has to be a quicker way of rebooting ... Jun 13 06:48:29 Sauron - won't the double mount overlap though? Jun 13 06:49:00 where? Jun 13 06:49:25 Lurking: I keep seeing your name and get worried that I was eaten .... Jun 13 06:49:34 anyone messed around with /sys/class/leds/core_navi_*? I thought the 'brightness' file would control the LED levels, but it seems that activating the LEDs manually does not actually change the data reported Jun 13 06:50:01 Sach - are you talking about the main screen, or the flash/torch ? Jun 13 06:50:07 main screen Jun 13 06:50:14 flash/torch is a different dev node Jun 13 06:51:51 almost looks more like the leds in the gesture area ? Jun 13 06:51:58 navi Jun 13 06:52:02 er - that's what I meant Jun 13 06:52:05 sorry Jun 13 06:52:32 the leds/kbd_bl_led_* dirs control the main screen Jun 13 06:52:59 sure they don't control the backlight leds on the keyboard Jun 13 06:53:02 seems more logical to me :) Jun 13 06:53:20 KBD BL LED Center :) Jun 13 06:53:26 and if you manually turn the screen on/off, you'll see the data change in the brightness - but this doesn't seem to behave the same way for the gesture area LEDs Jun 13 06:53:33 rposa - yes, that too :P Jun 13 06:53:42 listen to what I mean and not what I say ;) Jun 13 06:53:46 ROFL Jun 13 06:54:30 anyway - so naturally, I thought the core_navi_* stuff would correspond to the gesture LEDs, but it doesn't appear to do much when the LEDs are lit? Jun 13 06:54:47 so was curious if anyone had tinkered with any of that Jun 13 06:54:59 I am a lil nervous to just randomly cat values into brightness ;) Jun 13 06:55:04 hehe Jun 13 06:55:17 what the heck, why not :P Jun 13 06:56:45 echo 10 > brightness in the /sys/class/leds/core_navi_left turned on the LED on the left of my center button Jun 13 06:56:51 cd .. Jun 13 06:56:53 err Jun 13 06:56:56 wrong term Jun 13 06:57:02 lol Jun 13 06:57:26 hmm - what's the file size on the brightness file? Jun 13 06:57:42 err, 0 ? Jun 13 06:57:48 the reason I've been hesitant is because mine is 4k (4096) Jun 13 06:57:59 mine was until i screwed with it :) Jun 13 06:58:03 lemme see .. Jun 13 06:58:06 LOL Jun 13 06:58:10 I wonder if they use a microcontroller for that like the touch pro and diamond do Jun 13 06:58:33 the light still works correctly Jun 13 06:58:39 even now that i've dunced the file Jun 13 06:58:45 catting 0 turns it off I'm assuming? Jun 13 06:58:58 i'm using echo value > file Jun 13 06:59:13 er jeez lol .. echoing 0, rather Jun 13 06:59:18 yea Jun 13 06:59:20 it did Jun 13 06:59:57 interestingly enough Jun 13 07:00:03 hmm.... now to find js apis for controlling that :) Jun 13 07:00:08 if I echo 1 > brightness it comes on ever so slightly Jun 13 07:00:09 however Jun 13 07:00:14 if I leave it on Jun 13 07:00:19 and then use the gesture area Jun 13 07:00:28 it still does it's fade in / out ting Jun 13 07:00:36 i wonder what enabling the debugs in the conf files would tell us about the different programs Jun 13 07:00:37 and brightness file stays @ 1 .. but the light is then off Jun 13 07:01:25 hmm, that is interesting indeed Jun 13 07:02:29 for instance in luna.conf, there are debugs for gestures and what not Jun 13 07:02:51 the kbd_bl_led_* directory are what I suspected, the backlight for the keyboard .. Jun 13 07:03:01 echoing values into it .. turned them on (then subsequently, off) Jun 13 07:03:10 dunno why it was 4096 ... Jun 13 07:03:19 guess I'll find out when it bursts into flame :) Jun 13 07:03:31 LOL Jun 13 07:04:17 wireless89 - do you happen to know where the LunaSysMgr logs live? Jun 13 07:05:07 nope Jun 13 07:05:32 i want an SSH program for my Pre .. so I can ssh me@localhost Jun 13 07:06:18 youd imagine they would lie in the same folder as the LunaSysMgr file though perhaps? Jun 13 07:06:47 nah, LunaSysMgr is in /usr/bin Jun 13 07:06:52 Hey sacharya Jun 13 07:06:55 I would have guessed under /var/log somewhere but not sure Jun 13 07:07:17 on reboot: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4096 Jun 13 02:06 brightness Jun 13 07:07:26 so play away with it :) Jun 13 07:07:43 hmm... sounds good to me - I already did, after you confirmed nothing would blow up :P Jun 13 07:07:45 hmm Jun 13 07:07:52 * rwhitby has updated the instructions at http://predev.wikidot.com/rooting and http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository and made those two pages work together and reference each other. Jun 13 07:08:13 but the file went back to 4096 on reboot Jun 13 07:09:25 seems reasonable. I am more troubled by the fact that manual fiddling with the gesture area doesn't seem to update the device info files Jun 13 07:10:42 RWhitby: If one followed the "older" method .. is that bad ... Jun 13 07:10:48 does that break things? Jun 13 07:10:58 or just ... "don't do this in the future" kind of thing ? Jun 13 07:11:06 which really does sound like a microcontroller Jun 13 07:11:16 let me see if I have dmesg here Jun 13 07:11:36 rposa: if you used 'ipkg' instead of 'ipkg-opt' at any point, then you've messed with the palm internal ipkg database and may need the doctor when they do the first OTA update. Jun 13 07:13:01 Whatever the first SSH method was .. that's what I used Jun 13 07:13:23 nebula1, That's a funny looking IP ;-) Jun 13 07:13:24 yup ... Jun 13 07:13:27 * nebula1 wants you all to look at his IP Jun 13 07:13:40 huzzah! Jun 13 07:13:45 rwhitby: but it's a simple matter of uninstalling dropbear via ipkg and setting up ipkg-opt to "fix" that, yes? Jun 13 07:14:17 sacharya: probably - we don't know what checks Palm might make on the ipkg database before they do a firmware upgrade. Jun 13 07:15:07 sacharya: if you do the revert step, please document what you do on a new wiki page, and we'll reference that. I'd rather not have it on the same wiki page so it doesn't confuse new people. Jun 13 07:15:18 Well, if I have to run the doctor .. then I have to run the doctor .. it's not like .. Jun 13 07:15:24 I can't re-do my minor mods :) Jun 13 07:15:29 rposa: sure Jun 13 07:15:41 Sargun, i'm dumb, whats your mystery code Jun 13 07:15:47 rposa: do you know anything about svn and quilt? Jun 13 07:15:52 some Jun 13 07:15:56 not enough to take a test :) Jun 13 07:16:05 but ... svn is subversion .. Jun 13 07:16:14 I'm still trying to get someone to try my idea about using svn and quilt to manage mods. Jun 13 07:16:14 it's used to check in / out code and changes to such Jun 13 07:16:32 have you used quilt before? Jun 13 07:16:39 nope :) Jun 13 07:16:55 anyone in the channel used quilt before? Jun 13 07:17:11 * rwhitby is frustrated having to do all this by remote control ... Jun 13 07:17:33 rwhit - no pre, did you say? Jun 13 07:17:38 correct Jun 13 07:17:40 .au Jun 13 07:17:45 .aah :) Jun 13 07:17:48 sorry couldn't resist Jun 13 07:17:55 nice :-) Jun 13 07:17:59 * wireless89 thinks aussies should have had the pre first :P Jun 13 07:18:23 Can someone msg me the wiki contributor password... I'd like to edit my yelp universal search graphics; the darker dropshadow is killing me :) Jun 13 07:18:36 disc`: done Jun 13 07:18:48 chron: did you ever figure out what the iphone-linux reference was about? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 13 07:19:27 2009 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 13 07:20:00 2009 Jun 13 07:20:01 use it as a dev device Jun 13 07:20:30 my 14 year old wants me to trade his Moto Q for my Pre Jun 13 07:20:44 I told him ... he has a better chance sleeping with Angelina Jolie-Pitt Jun 13 07:21:28 lol Jun 13 07:21:29 nebula1: you need to link your nicks Jun 13 07:24:11 `im gunna be upset if this movie im downloading .. ends up being ... "not it" Jun 13 07:24:38 Anyone know, off chance, what format video I need to make before I upload it to the Pre ? MP4 .. but is that Divx/Xv id ?? Jun 13 07:25:06 what is tps6xxx, is that a standard led chip? Jun 13 07:26:22 doesn't seem to be upstream Jun 13 07:26:49 but why both 6025 and 6105? Jun 13 07:29:59 tmzt - fiddling with the navi leds? Jun 13 07:30:34 just resaerch Jun 13 07:31:17 well - I think http://www.national.com/pf/LP/LP8501.html is the actual driver for those leds Jun 13 07:31:34 there's a reference to it in /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-0032: Jun 13 07:31:52 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 Jun 13 01:56 /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-0032/driver -> ../../../../bus/i2c/drivers/LP8501 Jun 13 07:32:23 oh i can't wait for some LED based alerts Jun 13 07:32:27 im tired of turning this shit on Jun 13 07:32:33 just to check if i have msgs Jun 13 07:36:12 ok Jun 13 07:36:20 so three led chips? Jun 13 07:37:04 wb Sargun Jun 13 07:37:22 led based alerts had to be nixed Jun 13 07:37:41 The leds drain a non-trivial amount of power Jun 13 07:38:03 mmmm Jun 13 07:38:12 what are the leds actually for? Jun 13 07:38:13 not sure that is really the reason. Jun 13 07:38:23 woohoo Jun 13 07:38:32 hey cdm, how are you? Jun 13 07:38:46 cdm, :-) Jun 13 07:38:53 it seems not every touch event makes it to the kernel Jun 13 07:38:53 tmzt: gesture feedback right now Jun 13 07:38:59 cdm: I'm thinking of the treo type email pulsing Jun 13 07:39:07 So, do I get the job now? Jun 13 07:39:12 chrisa: yeah, I'm not sure it is because of power. :) Jun 13 07:39:47 nebula1: good, good. Jun 13 07:40:06 * cdm managed to get faceboot.com/chris.mckillop Jun 13 07:40:10 book even Jun 13 07:40:14 woot Jun 13 07:40:14 cdm: when the screen is off though, can't the leds double as alert indicators? Jun 13 07:40:18 guess i should do that soon Jun 13 07:40:39 nice Jun 13 07:40:47 lack of trailing 1 is good Jun 13 07:40:56 I managed chris.j.anderson, not too bad Jun 13 07:41:07 cdm, :-) Jun 13 07:41:08 Could be worse Jun 13 07:43:20 cdm: regarding code copyright, what's Palm's reaction to people using unified diff to distribute patches - is the 3 lines of context on each side going to cause concern to anyone? Jun 13 07:44:04 geist, look in PM Jun 13 07:44:54 geist, are you alive anymore? Jun 13 07:45:02 no. Jun 13 07:46:07 i dont have an account Jun 13 07:46:12 but someone change the wiki Jun 13 07:46:15 http://predev.wikidot.com/tidbits Jun 13 07:46:42 etc/palm/autoreplace/en-us/text-edit-autoreplace should be etc/palm/autoreplace/en_us/text-edit-autoreplace Jun 13 07:47:41 FuMan: done Jun 13 07:48:15 word Jun 13 07:49:56 hiya Jun 13 07:50:37 anything exciting or explosion-filled happen in the last few hours? Jun 13 07:53:06 Sargun kept posting some iptables madness Jun 13 07:53:08 probably tethering Jun 13 07:53:21 shut up. Jun 13 07:54:06 oh. ok then. Jun 13 07:55:03 is 'visible' spelt 'visable' in the US or something? Jun 13 07:55:14 nope Jun 13 07:55:25 why? Jun 13 07:55:30 In /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.devmodeswitcher/appinfo.json Jun 13 07:55:48 Does it say 'visible' or 'visable' ? Jun 13 07:56:05 hmm... lemme novaproxy up and check Jun 13 07:56:09 don't think so Jun 13 07:56:34 maybe the person who wrote the wiki page can't spell ;-) Jun 13 07:56:50 yeah.... that would be me... wouldn't it? Jun 13 07:57:37 eta till mobile os x is running on pre?\ Jun 13 07:57:52 :P Jun 13 07:58:13 did you already fix it in the wiki? or am I blind? Jun 13 07:58:49 http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-hacking Jun 13 07:59:04 ha! totally not me! Jun 13 07:59:12 that wasn't my page. fixing now anyway Jun 13 07:59:16 thx Jun 13 07:59:17 uh, we would almost certainly see someone try webos on iPhone before that happens, and I'm assuming luna is armv7 so that's also difficult Jun 13 08:00:11 the problem for iPhoneOS would be the impossibility of recompiling kernel unless by some chance arm darwin was released Jun 13 08:01:39 rwhitby: has anyone gone through the new and improved "enable the optware package feed" yet? Jun 13 08:02:03 rwhitby: I haven't done anything except novaproxy on this phone, so I can run through it if it still needs to be checked Jun 13 08:02:11 if not, I might wait a bit before I do Jun 13 08:03:25 is it going to be possible to port webOS to other platforms such as current htc devices? Jun 13 08:04:13 most of what I said applies as well as copyright/license issues Jun 13 08:04:49 not much point just porting the gpl parts, that's just upstart, oe, etc. Jun 13 08:05:15 true Jun 13 08:05:17 and we don't have the /opt remounting after reboot on the wiki yet... was that added to webos-sshenabler? Jun 13 08:05:32 or is ssh just gonna die when it can't find /opt after a reboot? Jun 13 08:05:50 dhillon Jun 13 08:06:08 it probably won't start Jun 13 08:06:20 is there any reason to go back and disable developer mode? Jun 13 08:06:23 zinge: which page? on the new page, it's step 21 Jun 13 08:06:50 ... there is no step 21 Jun 13 08:06:59 FuMan: security. :) Jun 13 08:07:07 zinge: which page are you looking at? Jun 13 08:07:22 http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository, linked from the rooting page Jun 13 08:07:28 am I looking at an older version? Jun 13 08:08:24 ahh no... looks like I was looking at the "old method" Jun 13 08:08:48 is the old way, it's step 21 Jun 13 08:09:02 we should add that to the new one; no? Jun 13 08:09:13 why so many steps? Jun 13 08:09:43 otherwise the stairs wouldn't reach Jun 13 08:09:46 that step should be added to the "new way" after step 2 and before step 19 Jun 13 08:09:55 ok, I'll do it Jun 13 08:10:50 might as well do it as step 2a. Or should I renumber them all and make iot 3 Jun 13 08:20:26 zinge: what do we need to add? Jun 13 08:20:56 the fstab line to remount /opt Jun 13 08:20:58 I put it in Jun 13 08:21:04 why are there so many numbered steps? Jun 13 08:21:06 ok, thanks. Jun 13 08:21:19 But I just copied from lower on the page; haven't tested to see if the line works Jun 13 08:21:22 every change or typed command is a step? Jun 13 08:21:25 tmzt: so we can refer to them in this initial stage when finding mistakes :-) Jun 13 08:21:33 eventually it should be Jun 13 08:21:33 ah Jun 13 08:21:39 1) wget optware-bootstrap.sh Jun 13 08:21:44 2) sh optware-bootstrap.sh Jun 13 08:21:46 3) reboot Jun 13 08:22:19 it's difficult to support someone asking why step 10 didn't work, I would rather they provide the command or at least some context Jun 13 08:22:24 i just ran all the steps and everything is working as expected.. fyi Jun 13 08:22:37 datafirm: including 2a? Jun 13 08:23:29 yes Jun 13 08:23:30 and rebooting and checking if you can still ssh in? Jun 13 08:23:32 ok Jun 13 08:23:33 thanks Jun 13 08:23:37 yes **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 13 08:24:55 2009 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 13 08:26:00 2009 Jun 13 08:26:45 I think so? Jun 13 08:26:54 no idea really **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 13 08:27:09 2009 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 13 08:27:40 2009 Jun 13 08:42:30 so Jun 13 08:42:33 for the record Jun 13 08:42:38 if you fuck up universal search Jun 13 08:42:41 and then hard reset Jun 13 08:42:44 youll lose root Jun 13 08:42:49 and after the hard reset Jun 13 08:42:57 your universal search wont be working still Jun 13 08:43:03 but you wont be able to enable developer mode Jun 13 08:43:10 cause the konami code won't load root Jun 13 08:43:11 pizeace. Jun 13 08:43:22 FuMan, you gotta run restore Jun 13 08:43:52 what happened? Jun 13 08:45:08 recovery is in that webosdoctor folder right? Jun 13 08:45:32 that was weird Jun 13 08:46:13 FuMan: after you use the doctor, can you follow the latest instructions step by step and tell us anything that is not perfect now? Jun 13 08:46:22 heh Jun 13 08:46:28 if you tell me how to launch the doctor <3 Jun 13 08:48:55 FuMan: dunno - I don't have a Pre, and I've never clicked through the palm license agreement on the doctor. Jun 13 08:50:51 is the doctor in this file? Jun 13 08:50:52 webosdoctorp100ewwsprint Jun 13 08:54:09 is it possible to step through a shell script? Jun 13 08:55:34 is it possible to step through a shell script? Jun 13 08:58:09 not that I know of. Jun 13 08:59:14 sorry about that, my wifi likes to randomly dump my connection and not tell me Jun 13 09:04:14 About to run a sh script for our 21 step optware install. Wish me luck. Jun 13 09:05:22 zinge: all the other Optware targets have such bootstrap scripts - it usually works well :-) Jun 13 09:05:53 ah ha ha ha. but those weren't written by me :-) Jun 13 09:06:18 failed miserably, due to me mistyping the first line to remount as rw, :-) Jun 13 09:06:47 zinge: what do you mean step througha shell script? Jun 13 09:06:50 interactiviely? Jun 13 09:06:58 using bin/sh or ruby/perl/php ? Jun 13 09:07:19 bin/sh. Don't worry about it, I'm just running it with -x and seeing where I break things Jun 13 09:18:34 I give up. I broke something. And I don't know what. Jun 13 09:19:41 Is there a party I don't know about? Where did everybody go tonight? Jun 13 09:19:51 Saturday night here. Jun 13 09:19:59 ah, right Jun 13 09:20:04 To FuMan's point about losing the ability to enter the code if global search gets messed up, it may be a good idea to put a reminder of that on the global search page in the wiki, as well as a link to making developer mode visible, so one doesn't need to enter the code Jun 13 09:20:13 actually, there was a party here. But I'm sick, so I staye dhome. Jun 13 09:22:00 When I follow the wiki to edit universal search, I get about five blank rows in the search and app menu. Anyone else seen this? Jun 13 09:22:08 yes Jun 13 09:22:12 yes Jun 13 09:22:14 you missed something Jun 13 09:22:19 I missed a quote at some point Jun 13 09:22:22 It turned out to be a typo Jun 13 09:22:45 alright... I've done it twice now, but I must have missed something Jun 13 09:22:51 also, I couldn't remove twitter Jun 13 09:23:02 removing twitter caused that as well Jun 13 09:23:43 grr... can't figure out what I just broke trying that script. oh well, last time I try that. wiping my phone now. sigh. Jun 13 09:24:21 I've just been inserting between wikipedia and twitter (trying to follow the wiki example as close as possible) Is there anything outside of the wiki that I need to do? Jun 13 09:24:29 nope Jun 13 09:24:40 just check again to make sure you haven't misstyped anything Jun 13 09:24:45 ok, I must be fat-fingering something Jun 13 09:25:23 If I do full erase on the phone, will that fix any stupid changes I made while root, or do I need to use the doctor to make sure of that? Jun 13 09:28:07 eh, just gonna run the doctor. This way I know the process in case someone else needs some help at least Jun 13 09:28:20 I'll see ya later, I'm out for the night. Jun 13 09:28:36 damnit, I missed a comma :) Jun 13 09:35:49 mmm movies :) Jun 13 09:36:51 Hey ... who wrote the controlling the LEDs in the wiki Jun 13 09:37:08 the wiki history should say Jun 13 09:37:58 Heh .. he was in here earlier and wondering what would happen if someone echoed something into the brightness Jun 13 09:38:07 i tried it, because im braver..and found it'd work Jun 13 09:38:13 bah Jun 13 09:39:50 dang it's 5am here Jun 13 09:39:55 didnt realize it was so late.. Jun 13 09:40:28 1 week ago ... -1 hour .. i was in line Jun 13 09:40:31 :) Jun 13 09:40:44 is 5:00am late, or just really early? Jun 13 09:40:49 hmmm Jun 13 09:40:51 well Jun 13 09:40:54 both Jun 13 09:41:25 is there any reader apps yet ? Jun 13 09:43:41 ok well ... this is a hot bed of activity .. will be back in later Jun 13 10:09:51 all the wattage setting works fine, i tested them all. Jun 13 10:10:22 i haven't make the flash fire yet thought. Jun 13 10:25:17 oh, you were refering to the led's on the front, not the torch/flash unit. Jun 13 10:48:49 morning Jun 13 10:50:26 hi Jun 13 10:50:48 morning. Jun 13 10:50:55 * Sargun is bored. Jun 13 10:51:34 Me too. Need to eat something soon. Spent the night doing research Jun 13 10:54:36 morning Jun 13 10:56:59 morning Jun 13 11:07:10 morning Jun 13 11:08:59 morning Jun 13 11:13:17 morning Jun 13 12:36:39 hi Jun 13 12:37:16 im having a lil trouble with getting the novaproxy to work on windows Jun 13 12:37:35 getting No connection could be made because the target machine actively refused it but ive turned off my firewall Jun 13 12:43:18 I'm not quite sure how to help Jun 13 12:43:47 I think you can retry but that error is caused because the proxy isn't listening Jun 13 13:36:19 anyone know how to make the Pre play a sound from the cmd line? Jun 13 13:37:43 nm Jun 13 13:37:50 Jun 10 03:28:32 root@castle:/# aplay /usr/palm/sounds/notification.wav Jun 13 13:51:07 anyone know what all the .debug dirs are for, or leftover from what app? Jun 13 13:51:14 oh yea moaning all... Jun 13 13:57:53 hey, that's something i said Jun 13 13:59:01 there is a bunch of em.... Jun 13 13:59:10 of things i've said ? Jun 13 13:59:17 of .debug dirs Jun 13 13:59:19 oh, .debug directories ? Jun 13 13:59:43 anything in those directories ? Jun 13 13:59:53 nope, just artifacts it seems Jun 13 14:00:43 /sbin /usr/bin/ /usr/lib etc all gots em... Jun 13 14:01:21 anything new happen overnight? Jun 13 14:02:04 Sargun try to make a pregrid yet or something? Jun 13 14:02:12 pregrid ? Jun 13 14:02:39 yea a bunch of pres all hooked up together for more computational power, you know to solve those tough problems... :) Jun 13 14:04:12 hahaha Jun 13 14:04:19 that's pretty amusing Jun 13 14:04:34 Is this a place to ask about root access? Jun 13 14:04:50 wasn't chrisa talking about doing such yesterday? someone was i think... Jun 13 14:04:54 * bdumm has bad memory Jun 13 14:05:00 ericwait, yes whats up? Jun 13 14:05:11 chrisa works for palm - he'd have a better idea of how to do that :) Jun 13 14:05:37 i run linux, and i see that there is a "TBD" on the website on how to root into the pre. Is there any progress there? Jun 13 14:05:53 oh, i was trying to do that .. Jun 13 14:05:58 how much programming do you know ericwait ? Jun 13 14:06:00 not yet, some folks last night were looking at the drivers etc Jun 13 14:06:04 lol Jun 13 14:06:15 need a linux driver atm... Jun 13 14:06:31 I am currently a student learning C++ and love to tinker Jun 13 14:06:34 got the terminals, etc. need somethign to talk to novacom right bpadalino? Jun 13 14:06:53 well ericwait we got a driver for ya to code lol :) Jun 13 14:06:55 bdumm, yeah - i started to write a c program .. let me paste what i had thus far Jun 13 14:07:04 j/k ericwait Jun 13 14:07:13 LOL ;) I love a challange Jun 13 14:07:50 http://webos.pastebin.com/f1bb166a2 Jun 13 14:07:51 might not be the most efficient yet at it but I have taken assembly Jun 13 14:08:34 so in the nascar remove the app howto, does that actully "uninstall an app" then from the Pre? Jun 13 14:08:44 * bdumm confused, ie I thought there was no uninstall? Jun 13 14:09:00 thanks, I will take a look at it and see what I can gleam from it Jun 13 14:09:10 ericwait, wait eric ... wait Jun 13 14:09:19 let me link you to something else you can see Jun 13 14:09:28 which i believe is the key to the entire mystery Jun 13 14:09:29 what doesn't work here bpadalino? Jun 13 14:09:37 that was original, lol Jun 13 14:10:21 bdumm, it doesn't do the user polling for a terminal ... and it doesn't actually open a terminal just yet Jun 13 14:10:32 but if you look at novaproxy: http://github.com/asedeno/novaproxy/blob/49abea30d1f5207e901647fadee0b91b05c0f620/novaproxy.py Jun 13 14:10:34 we gotta get away from this "restart your Pre" crap, it's a linux box... *sigh*.... Jun 13 14:10:46 the magic word, the 1, the 0 then the string length, then the string .. Jun 13 14:10:49 try sending that out Jun 13 14:11:14 amen, to the restart Jun 13 14:11:58 bpadalino, hmm i'll have to take a look today then cause I haven't, let me compile this see what i gets Jun 13 14:13:29 hmm i need a usb subsystem on this os... Jun 13 14:14:24 usb subsystem? you mean for -lusb to work ? Jun 13 14:14:25 compiled but can't find my pre via the usb cable Jun 13 14:14:29 --(root@bobby)-(8/ttyp3)-(0613/13-Jun-09)-- Jun 13 14:14:29 --($:/tmp)-- cat /etc/issue Jun 13 14:14:29 LSB Sample Implementation 2.0 Jun 13 14:14:36 i have a really weird os :) Jun 13 14:15:00 i have no usb subsystem, no printers, no a lot of things :) Jun 13 14:15:12 oh - you're a minimalist Jun 13 14:15:26 yea a purist lol Jun 13 14:15:45 i am surprised you've never used usb onyour computer Jun 13 14:15:48 not even thumb drives Jun 13 14:15:58 i have no need Jun 13 14:16:04 most of my data is out here anyways Jun 13 14:16:22 gotcha Jun 13 14:16:30 how long will it take you to install a usb subsystem ? Jun 13 14:16:51 i'll just switch to one of my other oses in a bit Jun 13 14:16:59 finishing up some other stuffs atm :) Jun 13 14:17:34 this os is so old, n beaten up from all the other OS building that well it doesn't do much anymore... Jun 13 14:17:49 ah Jun 13 14:19:22 no bzip on the pre? Jun 13 14:19:24 .... Jun 13 14:19:30 bzip2 Jun 13 14:19:33 but i guess no bzip Jun 13 14:19:46 who would use bzip when there's bzip2 ?! Jun 13 14:20:12 me when I don't hit :) Jun 13 14:20:25 whoops Jun 13 14:20:30 hell i'll use something from 95 if it works Jun 13 14:22:01 i think i am just going to wind up building a whole OS inside my pre on the /internal/media... no chroot etc needed... Jun 13 14:22:12 with libusb no driver is needed Jun 13 14:22:28 sorry, scrolled back Jun 13 14:22:29 tmzt, you still need to talk the silly protocol that it uses Jun 13 14:22:36 yeab Jun 13 14:22:58 is that what was meant by cmd 0 1 string? or is that something else? Jun 13 14:23:00 which i haven't implemented the 0xdecafbad, 1, 0, string.length, string yet Jun 13 14:23:05 tmzt, yeppers Jun 13 14:23:17 close we be, but... Jun 13 14:24:04 yeah, someone else can have all the glory for linux if they just implement that and then do the polling on the user input Jun 13 14:24:06 once backdoored, it works dandy from my linux but it would be nice to have that final driver stuffs :) Jun 13 14:24:25 bpadalino, I'll try to help out, you can have the glory i don't want it :) Jun 13 14:24:38 novacom supports lots of functions ... so it would be nice to actually support all of them for the linux driver Jun 13 14:24:53 bpadalino, we will say Sargun did it, since he is the media man Jun 13 14:24:57 eg, file send/get, execute command, boot memory, etc Jun 13 14:25:03 good call Jun 13 14:25:24 yea i want to know more on the novacom and other novastuffs i've seen Jun 13 14:25:30 haven't had chance to dig in yet Jun 13 14:25:54 using a java decompiler on the original .jar shows a LOT of the commands and how to use them .. Jun 13 14:26:36 you can even link into that jar once you have a novacomd running Jun 13 14:26:48 oh kewlio, i will take a look on the other os then, has anyone else but this fella tried to flash other images to the Pre? Jun 13 14:26:50 novacomd sets up a port on your localhost that does the translation Jun 13 14:26:55 http://blog.steventroughtonsmith.com/2009/06/wwdcpalm-pre-rollercoaster-week.html Jun 13 14:27:20 what images? Jun 13 14:27:31 steven is _the man_ Jun 13 14:27:33 a new rootfs ? Jun 13 14:27:38 it is to be assumed that he was first to do that :P Jun 13 14:27:39 but on Wednesday morning I figured it out: you have to hold the volume-up button while the device is off before plugging it into USB, and from there you can use Palm's firmware flashers to do whatever you like with it. As the device can run unsigned firmware (!!!) I was easily able to hack out the activation check, and get up and running and enable the root shell. In that respect, I may just have the first jailbroken Pre in existence. Jun 13 14:28:36 so then respect Palms/other carriers files/crapolas and then add your own to the webOS.tar and reflash your pre to be whatever you want? Jun 13 14:28:55 bdumm: he hadn't heard of the "developer mode" thing when he was actually messing with this. thats why he had to use this recovery mode (bootie mode, or whatever u wanna call it) to flash a modded rootfs Jun 13 14:29:06 what does the flasher tool support? Jun 13 14:29:39 wait, you mean doctor? Jun 13 14:29:43 yeah Jun 13 14:29:48 no Jun 13 14:29:55 the recovery mode i mean Jun 13 14:30:00 he did _use_ doctor tho, to flash the image Jun 13 14:30:18 the volume up + plug in usb while off then turn on ? Jun 13 14:30:22 chron, so you haven't tried this either then? Jun 13 14:30:36 bpadalino sounds sooo difficult huh Jun 13 14:30:47 almost like Palm is tempting you to do such... Jun 13 14:31:28 bpadalino: areyou talking about the bootloader commands, are they similar to novacomd when linux is running? Jun 13 14:32:40 oh yeah look at that Jun 13 14:32:43 bdumm: i don't have a pre Jun 13 14:32:47 just turning your device "off" Jun 13 14:32:57 hold volume up then plugging in USB gives a huge USB logo on the front Jun 13 14:33:25 and it's in bootie mode Jun 13 14:33:46 shake-shake-shake...shake-shake-shake... Jun 13 14:33:58 ready for trenchcoat to flash the bootie Jun 13 14:34:55 i'm going to spend some time seeing what's been built, what doesn't work for me etc then starting over with my pre OS... Jun 13 14:37:14 wait Jun 13 14:37:14 no Jun 13 14:37:32 trenchcoat isn't running, because the kernel hasn't even ran and fs hasn't ben mounted yet Jun 13 14:37:37 thats bootie Jun 13 14:37:46 which they probably use lboot or fsboot with Jun 13 14:37:57 i am surprised that bootie does not have a command to boot ramdisks tho Jun 13 14:38:00 they must have some way to do it Jun 13 14:38:13 i just haven't looked to hard because i'm busy with iphone stuffs now Jun 13 14:38:17 will be interesting to find tho Jun 13 14:40:52 there is a certificate manager application that is hidden from view as well .. Jun 13 14:41:03 so we could probably make our own signed ipkgs .. Jun 13 14:41:14 as long as we install the certificate into the appropriate directory Jun 13 14:41:55 the cert manager is hidden? Jun 13 14:42:01 it's in the Device Info app, no? Jun 13 14:42:07 oh is it ? Jun 13 14:42:10 yes Jun 13 14:42:12 oohh Jun 13 14:42:17 that's why it's hidden from plain view Jun 13 14:42:18 Device Info -- then the upper left menu Jun 13 14:42:40 how else does a user set up certificate-based wireless security? Jun 13 14:42:46 or join a corp domain Jun 13 14:43:47 you're right - i guess i never thought of it that way since i don't do any of that .. but good point Jun 13 14:43:51 gotcha Jun 13 14:43:56 yeah, it's in the manual too :) Jun 13 14:44:04 you read the manual ? Jun 13 14:44:11 for adding certiciates, yep Jun 13 14:44:20 since it wasn't immediately obvious Jun 13 14:46:52 ah Jun 13 15:12:31 bah it took me an hour to scroll the launcher menus to the sides... Jun 13 15:12:44 the HELP icon should be on the main launcher screen IMHO..... Jun 13 15:15:14 * bdumm installs gcc Jun 13 15:42:39 yea now the fun begins :) Jun 13 15:42:40 root@castle:/media/internal/welp# gcc Jun 13 15:42:40 gcc: no input files Jun 13 15:43:55 you don't need gcc on the target - you should be able to cross compile Jun 13 15:44:29 bpadalino: I know a guy who works on maemo, and runs windows on his computer. He does all of his building on his n810 Jun 13 15:44:57 sounds like a silly person Jun 13 15:45:05 * bdumm patpats bpadalino Jun 13 15:45:24 I've no idea why he does it, but he's been doing it. He's now mentoring a student in Google Summer of Code :) Jun 13 15:45:55 i feel bad for the student if he teaches his student to compile code on the embedded device instead of just cross compiling :( Jun 13 15:46:32 I think the student is cross compiling Jun 13 15:46:56 oh, well that's good then Jun 13 15:53:58 optware ipk's are mostly cross compiled Jun 13 15:54:16 but native compilation is also supported Jun 13 15:54:31 you can even install distcc Jun 13 15:56:08 in few cases like unison and mldonkey, these ipk's have to be natively compiled Jun 13 15:57:00 i guess i just like the silly approach :) Jun 13 15:57:31 you can also add native feed to ipkg-opt, http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/native/unstable/ Jun 13 16:07:29 hmmm Jun 13 16:07:36 was anyone able to find that partition1 dump? Jun 13 16:07:56 i remember someone was going to get it last night from the day1 logs or smth Jun 13 16:13:21 can some post on the wiki how to intall nano please? Jun 13 16:13:30 or is it their already? Jun 13 16:13:37 vi is there Jun 13 16:13:48 vi is a nightmar to use lol Jun 13 16:14:06 it's fine once you understand there are 2 modes of operation Jun 13 16:14:09 insert and command Jun 13 16:20:06 Binarytech: http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 13 16:20:21 then "ipkg-opt install nano" Jun 13 16:21:13 got it installed. wasnt too hard. Jun 13 16:21:18 thanks Jun 13 16:25:09 do we have a way to install apps yet? think i saw someone got it working last night. Jun 13 16:25:34 I believe someone has installed a homebrew hello world app Jun 13 16:26:50 installed, as opposed to sitting in the nascar app's place? Jun 13 16:27:07 right Jun 13 16:29:15 is their a way to enable directory listing with the "dir" command? Jun 13 16:29:19 i dont know as alternative Jun 13 16:29:25 an* Jun 13 16:30:04 ls Jun 13 16:30:27 Binarytech: ls Jun 13 16:30:40 Binarytech: if you really want to use ls with the name 'dir', run: alias dir=ls Jun 13 16:30:55 thanks alot! was driving me nuts lol Jun 13 16:56:34 pregrid? Jun 13 17:05:04 so has anyone hooked up torch to the nascar app space for simple on/off? Jun 13 17:09:21 rwhitby: thanks for removing the copyrighted code from tidbits. i didnt even think of that when i posted it. Jun 13 17:10:03 this nco school im in has been kicking my butt and is the reason i havent been able to get anything done. luckily, im off until tomorrow afternoon so hopefully i can get some things done. Jun 13 17:27:44 Hi all.. I was wondering if someone may be able to answer a question for me regarding webos-sshenabler Jun 13 17:29:00 Hello Jun 13 17:29:45 What's up? Jun 13 17:29:48 Afternoon Jun 13 17:29:56 Ive changed the webos-sshenabler script that is in /etc/init.d to change the listening port of dropbear from 222 to 3222... Jun 13 17:30:13 and I also changed the firewall rules to reflect that port in the same script.. Jun 13 17:30:17 Just woke up. I was wondering What is new on the Pre Hacking front? Whats Jun 13 17:30:21 new? Jun 13 17:31:10 JohnPro: check the wiki for new information. Jun 13 17:31:28 I do not know how to use it. It is too complicated. Jun 13 17:31:29 HAHA Jun 13 17:31:44 bpadalino any new driver progress? I'm stuck with some work atm, ie can't play/test... Jun 13 17:31:59 but when I do initctl start webos-sshenabler and then do a ps -ef | grep dropbear what I get is root 1773 1 0 13:23 ? 00:00:00 /opt/sbin/dropbear -w -F -p 222 Jun 13 17:32:30 A wiki is too complicated, and you are trying to hack your Pre? ;) Jun 13 17:32:46 bdumm, looking for usb packet loggers for osx .. but can't get the right one from apple .. going to look for a windows one for the vm Jun 13 17:32:51 Crash: in his defense... it is a complicated wiki ;) Jun 13 17:33:08 Lurking_Grue: I won't dispute that actually haha Jun 13 17:33:11 RickNY: did you remove dropbear? Jun 13 17:33:39 JohnPro: the most useful page for updates is the recent changes page - http://predev.wikidot.com/system:recent-changes Jun 13 17:33:48 I originally had SSH going under the old method... Jun 13 17:34:11 bpadalino: ic, i'll beat on things in few hrs :) Jun 13 17:34:18 cool Jun 13 17:34:20 Last night, I ran the webos doctor and restored the pre.. And then this morning did everything over using the new method.. Jun 13 17:34:32 crashx, I see that. I wish there was a site that simply listed what is new. No long code based calls but rather just a site that lists the newest hacks and how to perform them on your Pre. Jun 13 17:34:51 Do we have a terminal yet? Jun 13 17:35:01 JohnPro: yes like days ago Jun 13 17:35:17 Wednesday maybe? Jun 13 17:35:27 crashx: You are kidding. It was my understanding this was not done yet. Link? Jun 13 17:35:29 Please Jun 13 17:35:35 crash: a terminal from the phone interface? Jun 13 17:36:20 is that what he meant? Jun 13 17:36:25 not very clear Jun 13 17:36:27 crashx, Yes Jun 13 17:36:28 Yeah, think so. Jun 13 17:36:31 my bad Jun 13 17:36:44 crashx, What did you think I meant? Jun 13 17:36:52 SSH Jun 13 17:37:03 crashx, I know about that Jun 13 17:37:07 ive done this already. you can use a phone app such as webshell to remove to the public address of the pre. Jun 13 17:37:16 JohnPro, did you read the topic, links? Jun 13 17:37:26 bdumm, Yes Jun 13 17:37:29 so you can edit the pre from the pre over the terminal in the browser. Jun 13 17:38:13 s/phone/web/ Jun 13 17:38:14 tictac, stop repeating yourself. :) Jun 13 17:38:22 TicTac, I know I am talking about a client side terminal on the Pre itself Jun 13 17:38:31 Oh cool... you can isntall webshell on your own server... when I saw web based ssh I just didn't trust it so much. Jun 13 17:38:32 bdumm: im explaining myself more clearly or trying to. Jun 13 17:38:38 :) Jun 13 17:38:58 Lurking_Grue: ssh is ssh. it's even more secure wrapped in ssl. Jun 13 17:38:58 What is the deal with running a Web Server from your Pre Jun 13 17:39:09 is anyone able to access the filesystem (read/write) remotely through some kind of filebrowser, like winscp or something Jun 13 17:39:13 i shouldve never said anything. lol. Jun 13 17:39:39 i can get ssh access with root but getting a filebrowser to work is killing me Jun 13 17:39:43 JohnPro: i run the webserver from another server, although you could technically run it on your pre if you _really_ wanted. Jun 13 17:39:50 Tic: yeah but when you hit cloud based ssh client and the page is saying "Login and password" I just can't bring myself to put that into a random page. Jun 13 17:39:52 dmr: file browser? Jun 13 17:39:56 like winscp Jun 13 17:40:08 filebrowser probably isnt the right term Jun 13 17:40:17 why can't you browse the filesystem via ssh? Jun 13 17:40:20 Lurking_Grue: random page? its an ssh login just like anything else. Jun 13 17:40:23 tictac, Let's say I really want to. How? Thanks in advace. :-) Jun 13 17:40:28 and scp should work ... unless their ssh server is really minimal Jun 13 17:40:31 right i can Jun 13 17:40:34 through the terminal Jun 13 17:40:40 so what's the problem? Jun 13 17:40:52 Lurking_Grue: if you use ssl for the webshell the credentials are transported over it so.... its just as encrypted as an online bank transaction. Jun 13 17:40:53 Tic: Yes, but the code is on somebody's server and do I trust them to not save my logon info. Jun 13 17:41:22 Lurking_Grue: the code is on my server here at home. its not saving any logon info. Jun 13 17:41:31 i just find it easier to open files in a browser like winscp, edit and save right through windows gui Jun 13 17:41:39 seems like there's got to be a way to do that Jun 13 17:41:56 dmr: is winscp not working? Jun 13 17:42:05 nope i can't get read/write, just read Jun 13 17:42:08 Tic: Yes, my first search for browser based ssh brought up hosted ssh clients and that bothered me. Web-shell seems cool that I can install it on my own server and hoepfully look at the code. Jun 13 17:42:15 has anyone else wanted to plug a USB keyboard into the palm wall charger and plug it up? :D Jun 13 17:42:16 dmr: you have to remount the filesystem as rw, obviously Jun 13 17:42:22 Lurking_Grue: webshell is what you want. Jun 13 17:42:33 right mount -o remount,rw / is what i've been using Jun 13 17:42:38 dmr: ok Jun 13 17:42:56 honestly, if you can't edit files on a console ... you shouldn't be using any linux Jun 13 17:42:58 my problem seems to be starting the sftp-server under root Jun 13 17:43:13 ha fair enough, i just got into linux stuff a few months ago Jun 13 17:44:04 it's the most trivial task -- I'd advise not moving on to anything more complex until you learn it Jun 13 17:44:09 crashx: I know it's got USB On The Go which at least theoretically can do that... Jun 13 17:44:30 indeed. Jun 13 17:45:24 right, i'm not moving on, i'm stuck right here :) Jun 13 17:45:35 I guess you'd need some funny adaptor if it even would work? Jun 13 17:46:00 anyway i don't want to take anyone's time away from what you are doing, but if anyone has any quick pointers they would be appreciated Jun 13 17:46:15 dmr: pointers for ? Jun 13 17:46:28 starting sftp-server under root in winscp Jun 13 17:46:40 yeah ... don't :) Jun 13 17:47:09 Can you give your Pre a theme? Jun 13 17:47:12 Just curious Jun 13 17:47:15 are you suggesting there is another way, or that i should just stick to the shell? Jun 13 17:47:18 Like an iPhone Theme? Jun 13 17:47:19 LOL Jun 13 17:47:26 dmr: editing on the device is the other way Jun 13 17:47:31 I'd recommend that Jun 13 17:47:49 JohnPro: theoretically, sure ... not yet Jun 13 17:48:00 member:giovani, Sounds good Jun 13 17:48:09 edit on the pre iteself? Jun 13 17:48:12 I don't have a Pre. Should I get one Jun 13 17:48:16 of course Jun 13 17:48:26 dmr: yeah ... are you not understanding me? Jun 13 17:48:29 you mean open .js files and the like on the phone? Jun 13 17:48:39 ... YES Jun 13 17:48:40 and edit using the phone's keyboard? Jun 13 17:48:44 no ... Jun 13 17:48:49 JohnPro, nope you should just watch us have fun Jun 13 17:48:52 using your ssh connection Jun 13 17:48:58 ok right using vi or something Jun 13 17:49:04 you should launch a t-e-x-t e-d-i-t-o-r Jun 13 17:49:14 like us crazy linux folk do Jun 13 17:49:20 member:bdumm, What I was asking is if you guys are happy with yours. Jun 13 17:49:34 and then some :) Jun 13 17:49:37 its a powerful device john Jun 13 17:49:41 you can do a lot with it Jun 13 17:49:43 pita to get one here but otherwise yes Jun 13 17:49:48 when i initially saw "dmr", i thought it was the Unix god Jun 13 17:49:53 :-) Jun 13 17:49:54 and its not buttoned up tight like iphones are Jun 13 17:50:14 j0sh, i'm still trying to find a button Jun 13 17:50:15 .... Jun 13 17:50:21 hah Jun 13 17:50:52 ha i can assure you i'm no unix god Jun 13 17:50:54 has anyone here seriously considering networking many many pres together as a "service"? Jun 13 17:51:19 bdumm: what "service" would that be? Jun 13 17:51:31 especially with local wifi the possibilities seem endless Jun 13 17:51:32 bdumm: do you mean like a mesh network or something? Jun 13 17:51:53 have about distributed social networking services or something like that Jun 13 17:52:09 bdumm: that's already provided by lots of apps Jun 13 17:52:16 which is what location services is for Jun 13 17:52:20 find people nearby, etc Jun 13 17:52:28 but where is the data/ Jun 13 17:52:29 ? Jun 13 17:52:33 what data? Jun 13 17:52:45 your data, the social site's data etc? Jun 13 17:52:52 on your pre? Jun 13 17:52:53 data OF what? Jun 13 17:53:04 why you so argumentive to everyone? Jun 13 17:53:09 data of social networking sites Jun 13 17:53:14 Quick question, once you put your phone in developer mode, a simple reboot restores it to normal operation, correct? Jun 13 17:53:15 you're just being so unclear and confusing Jun 13 17:53:15 hell just your contact infos Jun 13 17:53:18 what data do you mean Jun 13 17:53:29 RB2: no. you must disable the dev mode Jun 13 17:53:37 what other data do social networking sites have? the pass a beer stuffs? lol Jun 13 17:53:39 tictac, ok thanks. :) Jun 13 17:53:55 bdumm: whatever data they want users to submit, I suppose Jun 13 17:53:58 i havent tried out dev mode yet, im assuming while in dev mode normal functionality is disabled? Jun 13 17:54:23 j0sh: no. it performs like normal to the "user" Jun 13 17:54:29 i see Jun 13 17:54:35 has anyone found a technical reason why in usb mass storage mode, the phone is disabled? Jun 13 17:54:39 so is there any reason to ever turn dev mode off? Jun 13 17:55:41 giovani, not that i know of/seen Jun 13 17:56:30 is there an easy way anyone has seen to get a console on the device itself? Jun 13 17:57:05 j0sh: nope ... that'll come though Jun 13 17:57:08 having a console app would be real nice for certain things Jun 13 17:57:23 absolutely ... like an ssh client Jun 13 17:57:41 haha, yeah Jun 13 17:57:57 I'm in desperate need of an ssh client Jun 13 17:58:06 and irssi, for that matter Jun 13 17:58:11 being forced to use web sites for simple functions like pings and traceroutes is very frustrating when i know im running linux Jun 13 17:58:17 and its just a command away Jun 13 17:58:31 if only i could type it Jun 13 17:59:08 yep, we understand Jun 13 18:00:05 thats one of the things im holding out for Jun 13 18:00:11 another is a windows terminal server client Jun 13 18:00:16 thatll be a huge deal Jun 13 18:00:34 j0sh, I was just think about that... but it will certainly be a pain in the butt w/ a small screen hehee Jun 13 18:00:39 well like Jun 13 18:00:47 id use it in a pinch Jun 13 18:01:05 RB2: every other platform with smaller screens does it Jun 13 18:01:12 yeah Jun 13 18:01:13 and Jun 13 18:01:20 it wouldnt be awful if it can set the resolution of the terminal session Jun 13 18:01:26 combined with a VPN client that would be great for off hours support situations at work.. Jun 13 18:01:31 giovani, true... just not convenient. ;) Jun 13 18:01:39 like if i can set the resolution of my session to 320x480 Jun 13 18:01:46 yeah, I have no need for it Jun 13 18:01:51 j0sh: windows won't allow it Jun 13 18:01:52 instead of scrolling around a 1280x1024 desktop Jun 13 18:02:02 640x480 is minimum since at least xp iirc Jun 13 18:02:21 and you wouldn't want it anyway Jun 13 18:02:22 thats true for sitting at th emachine Jun 13 18:02:27 many windows are non-resizable Jun 13 18:02:28 crashx-, Yeah... a vpn client shouldn't be hard to integrate. The interesting part would be seamlessly integrating it Jun 13 18:02:29 j0sh: nope, RDP too Jun 13 18:02:36 right Jun 13 18:02:38 i hadnt tried Jun 13 18:02:46 don't use windows, problem solved Jun 13 18:02:46 and yeah, there are a lot of dialog boxes Jun 13 18:02:49 that are larger Jun 13 18:02:51 hey Jun 13 18:07:27 hah Jun 13 18:07:27 in any case Jun 13 18:07:27 im perfectly happy that both exist Jun 13 18:07:29 and thrilled that the pre is using linux Jun 13 18:07:31 Competition is always good Jun 13 18:07:36 I hope Win 7 is a hit Jun 13 18:07:40 as am I ... windows makes it very easy to break into corporate networks Jun 13 18:07:50 RB2: windows and linux platforms are not in competition Jun 13 18:08:03 well to a small degree they are, but yes Jun 13 18:08:05 for the most part Jun 13 18:08:06 they arent Jun 13 18:08:27 I've never seen an IT manager consider one platform in place of another Jun 13 18:08:28 giovani, I won't argue with you. hehe Jun 13 18:09:39 i think vmware and whatnot have made it much less of an issue Jun 13 18:09:58 geist: how so? Jun 13 18:09:59 though i'm an engineer which is a special deal, i run all 3 oses pretty much at once at work Jun 13 18:10:15 that makes for less competition? Jun 13 18:10:33 sort of, since you dont have to make a hard decision Jun 13 18:10:51 uhm, ok Jun 13 18:11:10 i just woke up, gimme some slack :) Jun 13 18:11:47 finally getting to this usb stuff Jun 13 18:12:08 bpadalino: grats Jun 13 18:12:12 usbl ... pmux ... Jun 13 18:12:23 grats Jun 13 18:12:33 lots of chatter back and forth even with no real comms going on Jun 13 18:12:35 pmux was the old name for novacom Jun 13 18:12:40 ah Jun 13 18:13:05 it looks like it sends out the serial number ... but i don't understand what it replies back with Jun 13 18:14:12 geist, giovani has been giving slack to everyone ;) Jun 13 18:14:29 anyone having issues with loopback? Jun 13 18:14:46 bpadalino, isn't that the secret etc the python scripts send in reply? Jun 13 18:14:59 * bdumm didn't look at the py code in detail... Jun 13 18:15:01 bdumm, no - this lower level than that .. Jun 13 18:15:06 oh sorry Jun 13 18:15:14 this is down to the bulk transfer messages for usb .. Jun 13 18:15:18 i cant seem to use loop0 when i try and mount /opt Jun 13 18:16:04 bpadalino: not sure if you're already doing it, but i highly recommend writing it all down, one pice at a time Jun 13 18:16:37 still just digesting the log ... Jun 13 18:16:45 emerge unzip Jun 13 18:16:58 i am guessing this pmux ends up getting a little complicated ? Jun 13 18:17:01 yes Jun 13 18:17:13 Ooops... wrong focus. Jun 13 18:17:14 man, all the coll things are already gonna be done by the time I get my device Jun 13 18:17:24 s/coll/cool/ Jun 13 18:17:33 it's not as complicated but it's essentially TCP level functionality Jun 13 18:17:52 provides for multiple streams of guaranteed delivery Jun 13 18:18:04 usb doesn't provide guaranteed delivery ? Jun 13 18:18:13 yes and no Jun 13 18:18:14 * bpadalino has never programmed usb before Jun 13 18:18:19 yes in theory Jun 13 18:18:32 no if you consider all the bugs out there Jun 13 18:18:39 mount: mounting /dev/loop0 on /opt failed: Invalid argument Jun 13 18:18:51 usb has definitely been quite a headache for us, that's for sure Jun 13 18:18:54 but yeah, i didn't waste a lot of time on error recovery, more of error detection, ghetto retransmits Jun 13 18:19:10 usb itself isn't so bad, it's all windows that makes it totally a pain Jun 13 18:19:13 i think you guys were all here when i went to bed, and i just woke up and everyone's still on lol... maybe i just sleep a lot for a programmer. Jun 13 18:19:45 geist, so it's really windows that was a big hastle? the linux version was easy? :P Jun 13 18:19:46 msft is probably responsible for holding the whole industry back with the simple fact that any device you make needs a kernel driver, etc Jun 13 18:20:14 bpadalino: yeah, 2 weeks to get it all working on linux/mac, then about 3 months of a dedicated engineer to get windows to where it is now Jun 13 18:20:27 thats sad Jun 13 18:20:29 holy crap Jun 13 18:20:29 and a ton of money, since you have to get it certified, etc Jun 13 18:20:36 that is ridiculous Jun 13 18:20:41 it's all a huge money racket Jun 13 18:20:49 damned gorillas Jun 13 18:21:03 i imagine the linux/mac versions are pretty darn close to each other code wise ? Jun 13 18:21:07 they must share a lot of the same Jun 13 18:21:09 it's all the same code base Jun 13 18:21:19 just the bottom layer is different Jun 13 18:21:22 ah Jun 13 18:21:37 that was another pain in the ass, getting it all to build fine with msvc Jun 13 18:21:49 cant use various gcc extensions, etc Jun 13 18:21:57 geist, http://bcpub.com/tux/tux_fsck_image-small.png Jun 13 18:21:58 :( Jun 13 18:22:45 clearly we need to do more work, since the novacom stuff doesn't appear to work with windows 7 Jun 13 18:23:02 yea i have yet to see success with win7 Jun 13 18:23:40 oh, that's terrible .. Jun 13 18:24:01 geist: have you seen libusb-win32? Jun 13 18:24:08 yep Jun 13 18:24:14 doesn't keep you from making a driver Jun 13 18:24:22 i use xp at work still - but never touch vista or windows 7 .. os x at home Jun 13 18:24:31 actually msft finally sort of solved their own problem, they have released their own flavor of libusb Jun 13 18:24:34 which is much better designed Jun 13 18:24:40 however... you still gotta make a kernel driver Jun 13 18:24:41 GRR Jun 13 18:24:42 hmm someone good at gimp/ps needs a pre phone image with tux next to it so we can use it as a wallpaper ;) Jun 13 18:24:52 geist, they like $$$ Jun 13 18:25:00 ok, then someone should fix their website :( "The library allows user space applications to access any USB device on Windows in a generic way without writing any line of kernel driver code." Jun 13 18:25:00 and windows usb stack has a lot of really strange stuff. tons of bluescreens if you do anything slightly weird Jun 13 18:25:06 it's totally unstable Jun 13 18:25:14 perhaps with ' r o o t e d ' in a fixed font at the top :P Jun 13 18:25:17 that doesn't sounds very good at all Jun 13 18:25:17 tictac: you make it and provide a file, then someone can fix it :) Jun 13 18:25:20 saurik: the phrease is correct 'without writing any line of kernel driver code' Jun 13 18:25:31 that doesn't mean you dont have to package the driver, get it whcl certified, etc etc Jun 13 18:25:43 lots of hoops itseems Jun 13 18:25:50 summatusmentis: then id have to install gimp. Jun 13 18:26:01 how good are you guys internal at palm to document your protocols ? Jun 13 18:26:04 so? :-P Jun 13 18:26:09 ok, but you still don't have to "make a kernel driver" ;P Jun 13 18:26:16 with windows it's all about usb stack bugs (there are tons of 'dont do that, it'll bluescreen windows') Jun 13 18:26:17 gah. ill see what i can do after i get my loop0 working Jun 13 18:26:21 * tictac wonders why he isnt +v Jun 13 18:26:24 and getting it through the cert process Jun 13 18:26:26 you just have to install one Jun 13 18:26:35 * tictac was here when there were 8 people in the chan Jun 13 18:26:42 install one on like 8 different variants Jun 13 18:26:43 :P Jun 13 18:26:47 each with their own bugs, etc Jun 13 18:26:50 it's a nightmare Jun 13 18:27:05 someone that does windows shit professionally probably knows all the tricks and has it figured out Jun 13 18:27:16 but if you dont know what you're doing, it's easily a full time job for an engineer Jun 13 18:27:49 with most windows stuff, it doesn't seem to be that big of a deal on paper Jun 13 18:29:01 scrreen res is 320x480 right? Jun 13 18:29:06 well how much is the Pre going to be winhose centric into the future? isn't part of the deal to leave behind this mess er the PC? Jun 13 18:29:33 i dunno, i dont think it's windows centric at all Jun 13 18:29:42 the tools just have to support it Jun 13 18:29:43 maybe win7 will be end of road for your driver etc needs? Jun 13 18:29:50 haha, right Jun 13 18:29:55 :) Jun 13 18:30:54 and anyway, since a lot of folks dont upgrade windows when it comes out, you effectively have to support all the releases in the last 10 year window Jun 13 18:32:00 you support like the ME? or whatever they called it.... Jun 13 18:32:21 nope, that's just outside the window Jun 13 18:32:25 lol Jun 13 18:32:31 we angsted a bit over whether or not to support win2k Jun 13 18:32:51 yea i can see some installs still there.... Jun 13 18:33:08 usb was really immature in win2k Jun 13 18:33:58 geist, it wasn't version 3.0 Jun 13 18:36:14 well give us all a few weeks, i am sure we will turn the Pre inside out lol Jun 13 18:36:44 btw what is up with all the .debug dirs? Jun 13 18:37:00 just curious if purpose or someone forgot to clean up Jun 13 18:37:08 Are there actually files in them? Jun 13 18:37:12 no Jun 13 18:37:18 they are all empty Jun 13 18:37:32 /usr/bin/ /usr/lib /sbin iirc Jun 13 18:37:34 etc Jun 13 18:37:57 dunno Jun 13 18:37:59 I believe .debug dirs were used by the dbg versions of packages Jun 13 18:38:09 But I never had to use them myself Jun 13 18:38:25 oh ic, i was wondering some novatester thingy or ?? :) Jun 13 18:38:38 nah, it's just for when you're using gdb Jun 13 18:38:52 ah ic :) Jun 13 18:39:50 anyone know where the battery info is (command line) and power state? (plugged in or not) Jun 13 18:40:05 * chrisa raises his hand Jun 13 18:41:17 chrisa: can you tell us? :-P Jun 13 18:41:34 chrisa, you might appreciate wha i'm doing and you guys might find it useful: Jun 13 18:41:38 no, but it should be really easy to find Jun 13 18:41:38 curl http://localhost/preload/recload.php?id=1761201844?load1=0.00?load5=0.05?load15=0.01?up=355?bat=?plug= Jun 13 18:43:06 power, memory, gps on/off, wifi on/off to come. id is a hash on mac addr to make it semi-anonymous. Jun 13 18:43:22 and sortable Jun 13 18:43:41 I'm boggling at the /localhost/ url a bit Jun 13 18:44:04 dreadchicken: power state and battery info are usually in /proc somewhere Jun 13 18:44:12 * bdumm chuckles Jun 13 18:44:14 that'll be a real addrss, testing atm chrisa Jun 13 18:44:45 dreadchicken: any idea why loop* wouldnt want to work? Jun 13 18:44:51 idea is that if some folks are interested, they could track some real world numbers in a place that might be useful for you guys. Jun 13 18:45:10 losetup -a tictac Jun 13 18:45:17 how does it not work? Jun 13 18:45:56 losetup returns nothing. Jun 13 18:45:57 my thought is some of us could cron the client to collect the data and post it somewhere for others to see in a way that didn't identify them, but made them sortable. Jun 13 18:46:04 how does it fail? Jun 13 18:46:10 Invalid argument when trying to use it with mount Jun 13 18:46:26 mount -o /mnt/foo /bar Jun 13 18:46:34 err -o loop Jun 13 18:46:58 yeah, you horked your loop. you need to start that part over. you probably moved the existing loop file while it was still mapped. Jun 13 18:47:32 i didnt do anything to loop :-/ Jun 13 18:48:25 umount /opt ; losetup -d /dev/loop0 ; rm /media/internal/optware.ext3 and start the step over. Jun 13 18:48:29 how can i resetup the loop? ive tried deleting them, but to no avail. /dev shows 8 available. Jun 13 18:48:30 ^ some of those will fail. Jun 13 18:48:56 ^ but htat's okay, i used the shotgun approach. Jun 13 18:49:09 ? Jun 13 18:49:38 do this, some of them will fail...but it is okay: umount /opt ; losetup -d /dev/loop0 ; rm /media/internal/optware.ext3 Jun 13 18:49:42 then start the step over. Jun 13 18:50:08 ive done all that, numerous times. Jun 13 18:50:49 "mount | grep opt" returns what? Jun 13 18:50:59 "losetup -a" returns what? Jun 13 18:51:19 both return nothing. Jun 13 18:51:38 when trying to delete loops it tells me they dont exist. Jun 13 18:52:39 reboot and start the step over. i've seen this before, both pre and general linux...it's most likely a horked loop. Jun 13 18:52:39 i thought loop might for some weird reason be a module that wasnt loaded, but the config says its hardcoded into the kernel. Jun 13 18:52:47 done that also. :-/ Jun 13 18:53:12 does /opt exist? Jun 13 18:53:22 df -h /opt Jun 13 18:53:27 yes. rebooting again for good measure. Jun 13 18:53:42 also, for some reason my palm boots up in / rw. Jun 13 18:53:59 i didnt check fstab though. Jun 13 18:54:05 even if you mount -o remount,ro / before you reboot? Jun 13 18:55:37 iirc. lemme see on the current boot Jun 13 18:56:05 indeed. Jun 13 18:56:13 fstab says ro but its mounted as rw. Jun 13 18:56:26 im not worried about that for now though. Jun 13 18:58:38 battery = /sys/devices/w1_bus_master1/32-00084059f973/getpercent Jun 13 18:59:00 is there no /proc? Jun 13 18:59:01 mount still fails. Jun 13 19:00:11 did my find in /sys first Jun 13 19:01:04 tictac, i do not know. Jun 13 19:01:25 dreadchicken: its diff on each pre. my batt is 32-00084052c5f4 Jun 13 19:01:36 hmm Jun 13 19:03:58 for now i'll use: /sys/devices/w1_bus_master1/32*/getpercent Jun 13 19:04:17 heh Jun 13 19:05:48 i might try to webdoctor the pre later to see if i can resolve that loop issue, but for now im going to continue to determine a way to spawn commands to display Jun 13 19:10:04 how do i telnet into my Pre after i made the backdoor and turned off Developer Mode? Jun 13 19:13:33 you do not, you ssh in Jun 13 19:14:14 can i use WinSCP for that? Jun 13 19:15:28 back...gain Jun 13 19:15:30 *again Jun 13 19:16:06 so Jun 13 19:16:09 for what ist worth Jun 13 19:16:17 i just followed all the new procedures to root and install opt Jun 13 19:16:20 and it went splendid Jun 13 19:16:59 but i might recommend someone note on the twitter global search addons Jun 13 19:17:04 that you should NOT remove twitter Jun 13 19:17:09 because it fucks all kinds of things up Jun 13 19:17:50 Hello Jun 13 19:17:59 can i use WinSCP to connect to my Pre after i make the backdoor and turn off dev mode? Jun 13 19:18:04 What does Palm call the background photo that you can change Jun 13 19:18:50 Brenner14: there is some extra stuff you need to do, look in the precentral forum, its there Jun 13 19:20:30 what thread should i be looking at? because i've been trying to find some more detailed instructions but i'm coming up short Jun 13 19:22:52 The photo of the leaf that can be customized. I am trying to look for other photos online. What is it called. A desktop? A background? A wallpaper? What? Jun 13 19:23:23 wallpaper Jun 13 19:23:30 and look for iphone wallpaper sites Jun 13 19:23:35 same resolution, much more popular phone Jun 13 19:23:50 http://www.sciphone.net/ Jun 13 19:23:53 FuMan the Pre is 320 by 480? Jun 13 19:23:54 one of the most popular Jun 13 19:25:15 Does the pre have a 320 by 480 resolution? Jun 13 19:25:48 JohnPro: that sounds right, but look it up Jun 13 19:26:14 "The Palm Pre is 3.1" and 320x480 pixels. With that information in hand we can use a bit of algebra to calculate the Pre's physical screen ..." Jun 13 19:26:17 Yes sir Jun 13 19:26:18 :-) Jun 13 19:26:59 FuMan, Then why do I read that there are pre optimized wallpapers that differ from iPhone ones? Jun 13 19:28:51 hm Jun 13 19:29:24 so i rooted my pre, and followed the instructions here http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository to install dropbear Jun 13 19:29:28 and all that is working fine Jun 13 19:29:29 but Jun 13 19:29:42 the account i created isnt executing commands as root Jun 13 19:29:44 for some reason Jun 13 19:30:16 you need to use sudo Jun 13 19:30:19 yeah Jun 13 19:30:25 i know =p Jun 13 19:30:33 thats all in the instructions, too Jun 13 19:32:38 i rooted my Pre last night and followed the instructions up until making the backdoor and disabling dev mode Jun 13 19:33:01 now i'm trying to enable optware, but i can't tenet in Jun 13 19:33:33 does turning dev mode on not re-enable telnet? Jun 13 19:34:46 im pretty sure you have to run that python script again Jun 13 19:34:59 not 100%, but pretty sure Jun 13 19:35:07 has anyone mounted the pre filesystem remotely? Jun 13 19:35:09 thats unfortunate, but ok i'll try it Jun 13 19:35:21 i havent Jun 13 19:35:41 and im trying to figure out why ifconfig works over telnet but not over ssh Jun 13 19:35:55 dmr: what's the point? Jun 13 19:38:01 getting a good tree view of the filesystem--i know it's anathema to shell die hards but i'm trying to find a way to do this Jun 13 19:39:00 oh, well, if you have ssh working, and are on a mac or linux, you could check out sshfs Jun 13 19:39:51 sshfs isone of the most awesome things ever Jun 13 19:40:05 yeah i figured it out Jun 13 19:40:10 its just the path Jun 13 19:40:23 /sbin isnt in the path for regular users Jun 13 19:41:28 cyanidepoison: meh, I like the idea of actual network filesystems, but it's convenient sometmeimes, yes Jun 13 19:41:34 ok i will check out sshfs, thanks for the tip, i'll let everyone know if i get it working Jun 13 19:41:56 so did anyone continue the bluetooth research i was doing last night by chance? Jun 13 19:41:59 it's not hard, it's all host computer stuff Jun 13 19:42:01 * steviebuns failed to get sshfs to work, but only 1 attempt Jun 13 19:42:03 hello - anyone can help - i installed loopback fs on /media/internal for the opt directory - now i cannot connect via USB or Media Sync...anybody know why? Jun 13 19:42:10 if you have ssh working, sshfs should work Jun 13 19:42:13 sshfs requires an sftp server Jun 13 19:42:20 oh it does? Jun 13 19:42:25 nvm Jun 13 19:42:26 (install openssh-sftp-server, it will work with dropbear) Jun 13 19:42:30 chrisl: try rebooting your phone Jun 13 19:42:35 I'm used to full ssh installations Jun 13 19:42:54 will need sshfs to get wireless syncing w/amarok configured Jun 13 19:43:00 Larry: tried that 2-3 times, also different machines...same thing - the USB screen appears then disappears. Jun 13 19:43:29 install openssh-sftp-server using ipkg on the pre? is that correct? Jun 13 19:43:29 did you change anything on your phone? (other than installing loopback fs) Jun 13 19:43:41 but right now, i'm too busy trying to get facebook messaging to work. Jun 13 19:43:55 installed dropbear Jun 13 19:44:05 just incase anyone hasn't seen it... this gives new meaning to the konami code Jun 13 19:44:06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMztv0QnvFk Jun 13 19:44:09 that shouldn't affect it either Jun 13 19:44:12 i recorded it last night Jun 13 19:44:32 steviebuns: wait for the facebook ap, I bet it'll include it Jun 13 19:44:52 well what if you dont want to wait! Jun 13 19:44:53 summatusmentis: I want it integratged with the messaging app, for notifications & contacts Jun 13 19:44:57 and, palm wont like that Jun 13 19:45:06 they want all messaging in their messaging app Jun 13 19:45:16 steviebuns: ah Jun 13 19:45:34 j0sh: exactly, which is why I'm testing out the facebook/pidgin plugin right now Jun 13 19:45:40 should work with all libpurple messaging apps Jun 13 19:45:42 LarryS: ssh works fine, but i can't sync or use the usb drive... Jun 13 19:45:57 really? Jun 13 19:46:08 the pre messaging app will work with libpurple stuff? Jun 13 19:46:23 chrisl: if you didn't change the usb parameters, it shouldn't be affected. are you sure it's plugged in all the way? Jun 13 19:46:24 j0sh: that's what I aim to find out. Jun 13 19:46:30 it uses libpurple as a backend right? Jun 13 19:46:30 after the usb screen goes off, the phone goes offline and then reconnects Jun 13 19:46:38 see /usr/lib/libpurple-2 Jun 13 19:46:40 yes Jun 13 19:46:41 that's really strange Jun 13 19:46:47 i haven't heard of anyone else with that problem Jun 13 19:46:57 I had done the (now deprecated) ipkg install Jun 13 19:47:05 but i removed dropbear Jun 13 19:47:13 summatus: have you heard of that at all? Jun 13 19:47:22 gah! getting called away. I'll be back in a moment Jun 13 19:47:40 LarrySteeze: sorry, what problem? Jun 13 19:47:56 j0sh: correction: /usr/lib/purple-2 Jun 13 19:48:09 summ= after installing loopback fs on /media/internal - trying to connect via usb drive does not work Jun 13 19:48:15 mkay Jun 13 19:48:31 i get the usb screen for a couple seconds, then it goes off, the phone goes offline and then restarts... same behavior for media sync Jun 13 19:48:54 what id like to do is get the no-ip linux client on my phone Jun 13 19:49:07 so i can always know its evdo IP Jun 13 19:49:56 chrisl: no, i"ve never heard of it Jun 13 19:50:40 j0sh: assuming Sprint doesn't block DNS stuff, that should work Jun 13 19:50:49 The dropbear on the optware packages got updated yesterday and they forgot to include scp. Does someone have the older .52-4 version? Jun 13 19:51:48 well yeah, i know itll work, i just dont know enough about linux to install it =p Jun 13 19:51:50 >< Jun 13 19:52:32 one of those dynamic ip services provides a linux client, with instructions Jun 13 19:52:59 does no-ip? cause i have an account with them id prefer to use, its what i use everywhere Jun 13 19:53:05 i know they have a linux client Jun 13 19:53:05 but Jun 13 19:53:09 instructions, yeah Jun 13 19:53:15 for installing over a console Jun 13 19:53:17 not so much Jun 13 19:53:35 Does someone have the dropbear_0.52-4_arm.ipk they can share? Jun 13 19:56:08 ok, i removed the mount from fstab, rebooted, now i can connect via usb Jun 13 19:58:25 but now, of course, ssh is no longer available Jun 13 20:03:09 hurm Jun 13 20:03:34 i have sftp-server under opt/bin/libexec, is this correct? Jun 13 20:04:03 this is what i need to mount under linux? Jun 13 20:07:06 what do you mean? Jun 13 20:08:08 not excatly sure, i was told i need openssh-sftp-server, and sftp-server is the relevant component of that, right? Jun 13 20:08:37 probably Jun 13 20:08:49 you can try running it Jun 13 20:08:58 you shouldn't need to run it. Jun 13 20:08:58 i'm trying to mount the pre filesystem under ubuntu Jun 13 20:09:12 with read/write Jun 13 20:09:13 it should "just work" when you try to connect w/ sshfs or another sftp client Jun 13 20:09:18 ok Jun 13 20:09:35 is openssh-server already working? Jun 13 20:09:56 already working... ? Jun 13 20:10:08 it's installed i beleive Jun 13 20:10:39 yeah definitely stuck Jun 13 20:11:13 no-ip only provides the source, and x86 and x64 binaries, and i cant compile it on the pre Jun 13 20:11:13 so Jun 13 20:11:16 sol? Jun 13 20:11:17 or no Jun 13 20:13:26 there is an IPKG for it Jun 13 20:14:19 I DECIDED! I AM GETTING A PRE! I cannot track one down though. Any advise? Jun 13 20:14:26 dmr: is it working? all I had to do was install the sftp-server ipkg after making sure I could SSH in Jun 13 20:14:34 JohnPro, keep trying Jun 13 20:14:42 sshfs is telling me "missing host" Jun 13 20:14:43 try again, and find the right Sprint person... Jun 13 20:14:43 you called all the stores in your area? Jun 13 20:14:54 try regular SSH first Jun 13 20:15:00 bdumm, Which stores? Bestbuy, Radio Shack, Sprint? Jun 13 20:15:00 probably get same message... Jun 13 20:15:02 you have to open the port Jun 13 20:15:07 Who has the most of them? Jun 13 20:15:10 regular ssh works fine Jun 13 20:15:14 Sprint probably, but I'd try all Jun 13 20:15:17 go Sprint Corp Jun 13 20:15:28 JohnPro, a lot of stores are now taking people's names (post-launch). The best bet is a Sprint store though. Jun 13 20:15:39 THANK YOU GUYS Jun 13 20:15:43 and Gals Jun 13 20:15:48 I really appreciate the help Jun 13 20:15:55 bdumm is correct, go to a Corporate store Jun 13 20:15:59 Not a reseller Jun 13 20:16:02 JohnPro, I ask if the store is a Corp one or not Jun 13 20:16:05 go Corp Jun 13 20:16:15 my two bits Jun 13 20:16:16 so any store on Sprint.com? Jun 13 20:16:20 no Jun 13 20:16:29 ask specifically Jun 13 20:16:31 Anyone that DOESN'T say Sprint by Jun 13 20:16:44 I tried getting a pre yesterday. Best Buy said there were no stores on the west coast with any Jun 13 20:16:54 Sprint had a waiting list Jun 13 20:16:54 thats one way to sorta tell, I just had lots of problems with umm Sprint resellers Jun 13 20:17:06 JohnPro: you totally stole my nick :-p Jun 13 20:17:07 Radio Shack sounded bitter about not having any Jun 13 20:17:30 find a good Sprint Corp employee who wants your biz Jun 13 20:17:38 i found one and she has been awesome Jun 13 20:18:02 2009-06-13T20:14:58.071840Z [504] castle user.err storaged: unmount_partition_here: stderr: umount: cannot umount /media/internal: Device or resource busy Jun 13 20:18:02 2009-06-13T20:14:58.072298Z [504] castle user.debug storaged: unmount_partition_here: unmount failed Jun 13 20:18:34 rawdr if you don't mind, what command did you use to start sshfs (command line options, etc) Jun 13 20:19:19 EvanPro, Not on purpose Jun 13 20:19:29 lol i know.. just giving you a hard time. Jun 13 20:19:53 anyone know if "sprint retail consultants" at one store on one coast could sell to other folks say on the west coast? Jun 13 20:20:07 ie can you use the person I found and have her send it to you? Jun 13 20:20:08 Ok, I need a new hack to work on Jun 13 20:20:11 any suggestions? Jun 13 20:20:24 Sargun help finish the Linux driver Jun 13 20:20:25 you can help me with my gps app i'm working on Jun 13 20:20:55 EvanPro, you're building it from scratch? Jun 13 20:21:30 Reseller will call me when they get one Jun 13 20:21:33 Good luck Jun 13 20:22:02 JohnPro, definitely forget the resellers. ;) Jun 13 20:22:20 RB2, uh-oh, gave my number Jun 13 20:22:24 Sargun: add protocols to messaging. Jun 13 20:22:28 Should I just say I already got one when they call? Jun 13 20:22:29 Sargun: well, kinda... i'm just taking a random app, striping most everything out of it, then taking the gps coord code out of the navigation app, and making one that posts the coords at an interval to any url specifiedi n the app. Jun 13 20:23:19 at first i started but taking the naviation app and stripping that down, but there's just too much crap in it.. easier to start with one of the more simple apps. Jun 13 20:24:15 JohnPro, ask if they are Sprint Corp store or not, if they have a pre, and then after going thru your list, go back to a corp store close to you with a list and get on it Jun 13 20:24:31 JohnPro, don't worry about it. Call 'em when you find one from a corp store. Jun 13 20:25:02 i just happened to call the same store that was out o stock on sun and they had stock on tuesday Jun 13 20:27:53 anyone know how much juice the pre needs before it will turn on again after running the battery all the way down? Jun 13 20:28:00 getting impatient =) Jun 13 20:28:12 lol hamoe Jun 13 20:28:29 I will write a web service! Jun 13 20:28:39 Did anyone figure out the download manager? Jun 13 20:29:15 EvanPro: you looking for help on your gps app? Jun 13 20:29:47 if anyone could instruct me on how to compile the no-ip client for the pre, id appreciate it Jun 13 20:30:05 anyone able to sftp into the pre yet with write access? i'm able to login and browse but cannot make changes. Jun 13 20:30:07 j0sh, they have a client in the IPKG repositories Jun 13 20:30:08 EvanPro: i think palm posted a 60 min video on how to build a pre app from scratch Jun 13 20:30:09 did you try that? Jun 13 20:30:20 where Jun 13 20:30:21 really Jun 13 20:30:27 J0nny, no-ip? Jun 13 20:30:27 do you have ipkg working? Jun 13 20:30:32 think so Jun 13 20:30:56 try ipkg install no-ip, or /opt/bin/ipkg-opt install no-ip if you installed ipkg-opt instead Jun 13 20:30:56 shinali were? Jun 13 20:31:06 let me find it Jun 13 20:31:07 its old Jun 13 20:31:21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXS3SQauwPE Jun 13 20:31:28 yeah i have ipkg-opt Jun 13 20:32:07 he didn't use any sdk tools to create the app, from what i remember Jun 13 20:32:08 /opt/bin/ipkg-opt install noip Jun 13 20:32:12 "Cannot find package no-ip" Jun 13 20:32:12 :/ Jun 13 20:32:20 hamoe: yeah i'd love help if you're willing. Jun 13 20:32:38 and ShinAli, thanks for the link. Jun 13 20:32:45 no prob Jun 13 20:33:06 EvanPro: lets talk, contact me on aim (hamoe) or google talk (zackham@gmail.com) or let me know if you dont use either.. Jun 13 20:33:27 you think i'd be in this channel and not have gtalk? Jun 13 20:33:33 hahaha Jun 13 20:33:41 ah Jun 13 20:33:42 what changes do i need to make to give my user write access to sftp? winscp tells me i dont have permissions. only tried to create new folder Jun 13 20:33:48 yeah, sorry j0sh, remove the hyphen Jun 13 20:34:06 Binarytech: just chmod a folder as root.. that's what i did. Jun 13 20:34:09 yeah Jun 13 20:34:11 got that Jun 13 20:34:25 now how do i configure it, make sure it runs on startup, etc Jun 13 20:34:27 ok i'll test that out Jun 13 20:34:31 winscp? ugh. Jun 13 20:34:41 noip2 --help Jun 13 20:34:47 oh, pro Jun 13 20:34:48 I've never used it, but you should be able to figure it out Jun 13 20:34:52 yeah Jun 13 20:34:53 thats fine Jun 13 20:34:59 EvanPro, can you get GPS coordinates via luna-send? Jun 13 20:35:02 like, if all they did was compile it Jun 13 20:35:05 i can take it from there Jun 13 20:40:23 ShinAli: is the webcast from palm any good? Jun 13 20:40:55 it explains basic things about webos in the beginning but he eventually builds a webos app from scratch Jun 13 20:41:15 i didn't watch the whole thing before so i'm checking it out now Jun 13 20:42:02 * tictac watches it on the tivo Jun 13 20:42:07 hrm Jun 13 20:42:10 i followed the new guide Jun 13 20:42:15 and i can't su root anymore Jun 13 20:42:18 is that normal? Jun 13 20:42:37 you can run commands as root using sudo Jun 13 20:45:47 hey I have a question - I read you can not copy from fields that are not editable - like normal websites - but is it possible to select text there? Jun 13 20:46:37 hertzi_: not afaik Jun 13 20:46:54 which is probably why you can't copy from those fields Jun 13 20:47:24 one of you which has a pre - can you confirm that? Jun 13 20:47:45 no Jun 13 20:47:50 you can't Jun 13 20:48:05 @giovani - you just can comment the command out too Jun 13 20:48:13 thanks Jun 13 20:48:20 hertzi_: huh? Jun 13 20:49:11 mean - when you can't press the copy button than you can't copy either Jun 13 20:50:00 right, my point was, the reason the copy button is disabled is likely because you can't even select text ... clearly you can't copy what you can't select Jun 13 20:51:15 ah - ok Jun 13 20:57:17 anybody else not able to mount the pre as a usb drive after rooting? Jun 13 20:58:33 me Jun 13 20:58:35 lol Jun 13 20:59:08 ripper: yup, just noticing that now Jun 13 20:59:12 i still have dev mode on but if i recall it worked with it on recently. i dont know what change caused it Jun 13 20:59:36 Yeah, me neither Jun 13 20:59:48 I've only done the stuff that's step by step documented in the wiki. Jun 13 21:00:02 hm, yeah Jun 13 21:00:04 Has anyone been messing with the soundsandalerts app? there's commented out stuff about UWAlerts, UISounds, Jun 13 21:00:05 i cant mount it Jun 13 21:01:37 Kaerey: what did you do to get your loop0 to work? Jun 13 21:01:38 thats sorta lame Jun 13 21:01:41 how do i fix this Jun 13 21:01:57 I was hoping somebody here would know. Jun 13 21:02:16 going to redo everything after iget out of work and test after each change until i figure it out Jun 13 21:02:26 j0sh: install sftp and transfer files via wifi instead ;) Jun 13 21:02:42 stevie i was thinking the samething Jun 13 21:02:49 well thats a workaround Jun 13 21:02:52 does the usb connection store to the same partition Jun 13 21:02:53 but by no means convenient Jun 13 21:03:08 that works for me lol i'm used to ftp since i work on websites alot Jun 13 21:03:11 hmm i rooted and can mount the usb portion fine Jun 13 21:03:31 tictac: i didn't I used option 2 Jun 13 21:03:37 i think this has something to do with the chanes made durin the sftp setup unless you guys havnt done that Jun 13 21:03:41 Step 4 option 2 with /var/ Jun 13 21:04:19 Kaerey: what do you mean option 2? Jun 13 21:04:54 kaery i think you used the old procedure Jun 13 21:05:06 I did Jun 13 21:05:15 I just looked and they updated it Jun 13 21:05:20 ahh i gotcha. Jun 13 21:05:55 you didnt use a loopback filesystem which makes backups slightly more difficult (backing up many files as opposed to many) Jun 13 21:06:32 i think the usb thing has something to do with messing with the /media directory Jun 13 21:07:04 i havnt touched media Jun 13 21:07:10 Check this out: http://webos.pastebin.com/m6815c028 Jun 13 21:07:20 That's /var/log/messages when I tried to mount usb and it failed Jun 13 21:07:28 umount: cannot umount /media/internal: Device or resource busy Jun 13 21:07:47 ripper: you cant unmount /media/internal ever. Jun 13 21:07:49 are you in USB Mode? Jun 13 21:08:20 ripper: its constantly being used by the phone upon bootup. Jun 13 21:08:21 I'm trying to put the device in usb mode. I didn't run that command, that's whats in /var/log/messages after trying to put the pre in usb mode and it failing. Jun 13 21:08:42 ahh. Jun 13 21:08:56 try rebooting? Jun 13 21:09:07 several times Jun 13 21:09:12 either shutdown -r now or with the normal phone button Jun 13 21:09:20 there is a reboot command i thin Jun 13 21:09:30 /sbin/reboot Jun 13 21:09:37 and shutting down with the power button Jun 13 21:09:56 umount: cannot forcibly umount /media/internal: Device or resource busy Jun 13 21:10:12 I think it needs to unmount from the local file system before enabling USB mode Jun 13 21:10:54 its having trouble mounting the vfat file system because the loopback file fs is being used Jun 13 21:11:08 so you have to umount the loopback device first Jun 13 21:11:09 Ahh, that makes sense Jun 13 21:11:15 ok someone took the ssh root method off the rooting wiki... wtf Jun 13 21:11:22 (unrelated) i think i am close to getting the pre filesystem mounted with full read/write access... Jun 13 21:11:33 so what do we do Jun 13 21:11:37 I'll try umounting /opt once this thing boots up again Jun 13 21:11:47 but it's upon trying to open that mounted folder, it's telling me "Could not open location 'file:///home/dan/pre'" Jun 13 21:11:48 * tictac reflashes his phone with webDoctor Jun 13 21:11:55 "Error stating file '/home/dan/pre': Permission denied" Jun 13 21:11:56 We would need to add a command to umount /opt into the program that puts it into usb mode if that works. Jun 13 21:12:09 this is in ubuntu Jun 13 21:12:40 would that cause issues for programs you have running? Jun 13 21:12:47 ripper: just dont automount /opt in fstab Jun 13 21:12:52 see if that works. Jun 13 21:13:07 shoot, of course I can't umount /opt because dropbear is running from /opt Jun 13 21:13:17 hehe webdoctor is my next course of action then will retry Jun 13 21:13:29 stop it via initctl stop webos-sshenabler Jun 13 21:13:33 ripper: use novaproxy Jun 13 21:13:46 I'm on linux. qq Jun 13 21:13:52 :/ Jun 13 21:13:52 oh Jun 13 21:13:55 dang Jun 13 21:13:56 on linux!! Jun 13 21:14:19 well im on linux too, but the pre is connected to the win box until we can get root access from linux directly. Jun 13 21:14:24 I had to initially root my pre from work where I had a windows machine. Jun 13 21:14:39 rwhitby: why did you remove (secure the network) from rooting? Jun 13 21:14:45 I'm using virtualbox to root it Jun 13 21:14:56 hah Jun 13 21:15:20 so basically Jun 13 21:15:22 for the time being Jun 13 21:15:38 yup /opt mount is the problem Jun 13 21:15:42 you essentially cant simply use usb Jun 13 21:15:51 you have to umount /opt and then losetup -d /dev/loop0 Jun 13 21:15:54 if you have the optware feed installed Jun 13 21:16:01 then you can use usb drive mode Jun 13 21:16:03 Does anyone know exactly how talk.py turns on telnet? If I could enable telnet from ssh, then I could kill dropbear and umount /opt. To verify that's the problem. Jun 13 21:16:17 what about adding 'noauto' to fstab, and rebooting? Jun 13 21:16:42 Oh, I could do that too... but then I'd have no way of re-enabling it to be able to ssh into it again. Jun 13 21:16:56 haha Jun 13 21:17:00 that might not be too good Jun 13 21:17:11 i managed to pick up a touchstone yesterday. the sprint tech guy almost crapped his pants when he asked 'how do you like the pre?' and i responded 'it's great considering we have root access on it already and i can pretty much do whatever i want' (he seen my wallpaper which was the 'enable devel mode' screenshot') Jun 13 21:17:13 this is what we need a console app for Jun 13 21:17:37 talk.py does it's work over the air right? Jun 13 21:17:42 no Jun 13 21:17:43 usb Jun 13 21:17:48 agreed, anyone working on a console app Jun 13 21:18:00 oh yeah. .. hmm. Jun 13 21:18:08 a console app shouldnt be too hard really. Jun 13 21:18:28 But if talk.py enables telnet, then there must be a telnet server somewhere on the pre taht I could enable from ssh. Jun 13 21:18:30 it is if you need some form of native code Jun 13 21:18:49 what about a command shell that can be accessed by the Pre's browser? Jun 13 21:19:05 that sounds good Jun 13 21:19:06 same idea, it just doesnt exist yet Jun 13 21:19:13 just for something quick n' dirty Jun 13 21:19:15 steviebuns: i use webshell to access my pre... from the pre. Jun 13 21:19:17 what's going on now ? Jun 13 21:19:50 so.. over the browser i connect to my webshell port on my webserver which can be used to ssh to the palm Jun 13 21:19:55 bpadalino: you can't go into usb drive mode while /opt is loopback mounted Jun 13 21:20:06 oh, really ? Jun 13 21:20:12 How hard would it be to make a simple app that simply runs a shell command when you hit a button? I thought there was an app that did that for the flashlight. Maybe I could make an app that unmounts /opt. Jun 13 21:20:21 tictac: foo to bar, bar back to foo ;) Jun 13 21:20:24 yeah, makes sense as the loopback file is stored on media/internal Jun 13 21:20:27 hrmmm .. Jun 13 21:20:29 nebula: exactly Jun 13 21:20:34 i wonder why .. it has to remount it ? Jun 13 21:21:03 the usb drive mode uses some mounting thing Jun 13 21:21:07 webdr is slow. Jun 13 21:21:23 well yea. the usb drives mounts /media/internal using the loop0 device. Jun 13 21:21:36 really? Jun 13 21:21:51 couldn't we use a different loop device then? Jun 13 21:21:56 its also the one place that for sure wont be erased when an update occurs Jun 13 21:21:57 for the /opt i mean Jun 13 21:22:07 would that solve the problem? Jun 13 21:22:08 which is why they chose to use /media/internal Jun 13 21:22:18 i dont think you can choose which loop device to use. Jun 13 21:22:31 ill check when webdr is done with my phone. Jun 13 21:22:34 i thought you could, let me man page Jun 13 21:22:50 i know there arent any options for mount to specify the loop device Jun 13 21:23:19 tictac: how hard would it be to run webshell directly from the pre? Jun 13 21:23:46 steviebuns: im sure it _could_ be done somewhat easily. Jun 13 21:24:04 i doubt there is a ipkg package for it though Jun 13 21:24:16 considering there isnt a debian package. :P Jun 13 21:27:16 weird, i swear to god you could write loop=/dev/loop0 to the mount command Jun 13 21:28:20 can we tie up loop0, then loop mount, then free up loop0? Jun 13 21:28:24 it'll have to pick a different one Jun 13 21:28:41 hrm .. well no shit .. Jun 13 21:28:49 when in media device mode Jun 13 21:29:02 /media/internal just isn't there Jun 13 21:29:12 aha Jun 13 21:29:12 woo Jun 13 21:29:23 so it unmounts the whole thing .. Jun 13 21:29:30 wow Jun 13 21:29:39 mount -o loop=/dev/loop3,blocksize=1024 <-- from man page on linux machine Jun 13 21:29:46 but you can still see it as a flash drive on your PC, right? Jun 13 21:29:54 yeah Jun 13 21:29:56 comes up on the pc Jun 13 21:30:19 doesn anyone else see a FSCK0000.REC in media internal? Jun 13 21:30:46 bleh, i'm deleting it Jun 13 21:31:20 on my pre i can view the media/internal part on sftp but cant add anything since i dont have permssion lol. Jun 13 21:31:34 i dont know if that helps any Jun 13 21:31:50 but internel is still their and i can view the files so it must be mounted right? Jun 13 21:31:55 how does mediasync mode behave in stock config Jun 13 21:32:06 i hadnt tried it Jun 13 21:32:08 Binarytech: you need to login as root to access files on /media/internal Jun 13 21:32:17 yeah, the device just can't serve it up as a USB mass storage device in its normal manner Jun 13 21:32:43 j0sh, it advertises itself as an iPod to your PC Jun 13 21:33:20 yeah i read that, but i havent used an ipod, so im not sure what that means Jun 13 21:33:23 i think i need to redo my sftp setup because i didnt set a root password. i created a new user going off the tutorial and it never asked to set a pass. Jun 13 21:33:29 it cant be used as a usb drive in that mode, yes? Jun 13 21:33:36 it still can, oddly enough Jun 13 21:33:36 i'll use webdoctor and redo it in a few Jun 13 21:33:44 well Jun 13 21:33:45 tictac: when i try to specify the loop=whatever, it tells me invalid argument Jun 13 21:33:46 in stock config Jun 13 21:33:54 yeah Jun 13 21:33:57 actually it still tries to mount to /dev/loop0 Jun 13 21:33:57 try using losetup ? Jun 13 21:34:05 oh yeah Jun 13 21:34:23 ShinAli: perhaps the device uses a skimmed down version of mount. Jun 13 21:34:34 creates a normal usb mass storage connection, and another as an iPod. Just means that any program/driver made to interface with an iPod will try to use it. i.e. so iTunes works Jun 13 21:35:06 right Jun 13 21:35:07 got it Jun 13 21:35:19 i wonder why they bothered making it 2 modes then Jun 13 21:35:28 losetup is useless. Jun 13 21:35:34 oddly enough Rhythmbox identified it and let me sync music to it, but only 2 of the 300some songs showed up on the Pre. But I could reconnect and play them in rhythmbox Jun 13 21:35:35 they could have just done one storage mode, and one charging mode Jun 13 21:35:38 why is it useless ? Jun 13 21:35:50 i mean, for this situation i think you're right Jun 13 21:35:52 it didnt seem to work Jun 13 21:35:54 rawdr: same behavior here with Rhythmbox Jun 13 21:35:59 correct. Jun 13 21:36:07 it doesn't work because when the device gets put into mass storage mode Jun 13 21:36:19 well losetup didnt even show my loop devices at all. Jun 13 21:36:20 it unmounts the store-media mount Jun 13 21:36:35 losetup + mount to specific loop device work Jun 13 21:36:41 s Jun 13 21:36:51 im finishing up the webdr reset and then will see if my lo devices work Jun 13 21:37:53 it still wouldn't solve the media drive problem though, haha Jun 13 21:38:39 Well, whatever program is running when you hit usb mode makes calls to logout of messenger and other things. Maybe we can just edit that to shutdown any programs that are running on /opt (dropbear) and unmount the loopback device. Jun 13 21:38:45 why does it need to get unmounted i wonder Jun 13 21:39:10 bp: 'cause otherwise it's read only, probably. Jun 13 21:39:18 whats readonly ? Jun 13 21:39:36 bp: never mind, was thinking of something else Jun 13 21:40:26 what was the command to jump to the end of file in vi? Jun 13 21:41:03 i mean, it seems like a pretty unsolvable issue - the only possible solution seems to be somehow automating shutting down every program residing on that filesystem and then dismounting it when you hit the button for usb mode or media sync mode, and then restarting them when you disconnect Jun 13 21:41:16 and that doesnt seem like it would be a quick process either Jun 13 21:41:25 ShinaAli, G Jun 13 21:41:33 thanks Jun 13 21:41:42 or am i misunderstanding the issue Jun 13 21:41:43 i still don't understand why they're unmounting it in general .. Jun 13 21:41:48 or where it's happening Jun 13 21:42:09 j0sh: yeah thats the issue Jun 13 21:42:46 * Sargun knows what he's going to hack: PreLocator. Jun 13 21:42:51 i guess there is another possible solution, and thats to change the USB drive functionality Jun 13 21:43:12 and cause it to work without dismounting the fs Jun 13 21:43:17 hack that, sargun Jun 13 21:43:18 =p Jun 13 21:43:48 *whew* thought I lost my touchstone in the trash lol Jun 13 21:43:52 haha Jun 13 21:43:53 whoops Jun 13 21:44:11 yea it rolls under things.... Jun 13 21:44:15 im probably going to get that extended battery when it comes out, which means i cant use a touchstone Jun 13 21:44:31 extended battery? uri? Jun 13 21:44:48 that fat ass 2 million mah battery Jun 13 21:44:50 http://www.seidioonline.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=3366 Jun 13 21:44:56 you don't think they'll make an extended inductive back, j0sh? Jun 13 21:45:07 palm would if they were making the battery Jun 13 21:45:09 but they arent Jun 13 21:45:13 I'm saying seidio Jun 13 21:45:14 this is a third party Jun 13 21:45:15 bet they will Jun 13 21:45:20 they said they wouldnt Jun 13 21:45:21 like Jun 13 21:45:22 cause it doesn't look too complicated Jun 13 21:45:23 oh Jun 13 21:45:24 maybe they will later Jun 13 21:45:27 holy huge Jun 13 21:45:28 http://www.seidioonline.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=BACY26PMPRE%2DBK Jun 13 21:45:28 but initially no Jun 13 21:45:38 yeah its uh Jun 13 21:45:40 not small. Jun 13 21:45:51 thats why i said fat ass Jun 13 21:46:02 they will be limiting their sales by not offering touchstone compatibility Jun 13 21:46:09 its going to be around ~2k mah Jun 13 21:46:10 i'm pretty sure they just stacked two batteries Jun 13 21:46:14 I'm sure they are just almost done with the battery and will get the back done asap. hopefully anyway Jun 13 21:46:17 terrible Jun 13 21:46:32 yeah they can always start making the back later Jun 13 21:46:39 j0sh: you can use the 1350mah battery Jun 13 21:46:43 yeah Jun 13 21:46:43 it's identically sized Jun 13 21:46:50 it fits in the normal back Jun 13 21:46:59 although the extrended depth one says this: Jun 13 21:46:59 - Includes an rubberized battery door to improve grip Jun 13 21:47:00 - Extends the depth of your device by only millimeters Jun 13 21:47:05 I mean making a battery to new specs is like so routine for them. that project was done before it was startedf Jun 13 21:47:10 but thats only a little tiny bit better than the palm battery Jun 13 21:47:13 rubberized battery door? sounds an awful lot like the inductive back Jun 13 21:47:17 nice i like the rubber grip Jun 13 21:47:19 1350 from 1150 Jun 13 21:47:28 giovani: doesn't mean it'll be inductive Jun 13 21:47:38 im sticking to the standard battery. this way i dont have to worry about getting an invisishield to fit it. Jun 13 21:47:39 ShinAli: and I never said it does Jun 13 21:47:40 if it were they would've mentioned that Jun 13 21:47:46 obviously a big selling point Jun 13 21:47:46 is it a lipo battery? oem is lithium ion. i dont know why they dont use lipo Jun 13 21:47:57 yeah Jun 13 21:48:03 do you guys know anything about this business with the centro and treo 800w batteries - everyone who has tested them says it works Jun 13 21:48:08 but the official statement Jun 13 21:48:09 is dont Jun 13 21:48:31 didn't know that Jun 13 21:48:35 theyre similar model numbers, same output, same capacity, same size/shape Jun 13 21:48:43 either officially they want more money or officially they did some more things with the battery Jun 13 21:48:44 * bdumm blinks wow talk about a topic to get everyone involved, batteries... lol Jun 13 21:48:52 well yeah that much i know Jun 13 21:49:09 i just wasnt sure if there was any more info out there other than Jun 13 21:49:21 either its marketing BS or tech BS Jun 13 21:49:25 the touchstone is great imho Jun 13 21:49:32 accessories are a big money maker for phones Jun 13 21:49:39 j0sh: all of the 3rd party stores are selling the centro battery as a pre battery afaik Jun 13 21:49:41 so i wouldn't be suprised if its marketing bs Jun 13 21:49:47 it's great if the phone doesnt fall off. Jun 13 21:49:53 yeah i bought a centro battery and charger Jun 13 21:49:54 which mine does occasionally Jun 13 21:49:58 for $15/$5 Jun 13 21:49:58 are the magnets not that strong? Jun 13 21:50:08 the touchstone is nice but i want to be able to pick the phone up while it charges Jun 13 21:50:08 the magnets are quite strong Jun 13 21:50:08 not imho Jun 13 21:50:26 you could never accidentally remove it -- that's why the touchstone HAS to have that grippy material on the bottom Jun 13 21:50:26 and use it Jun 13 21:50:31 I was hoping I could mount the touchstone almost vertical if I wanted to Jun 13 21:50:37 haha Jun 13 21:50:38 my pre stays strongly attached to the touchstone Jun 13 21:50:41 well i must have a defective one then. my phone barely stays on. Jun 13 21:50:45 rawdr: you wouldn't want to -- it's sloped pretty heavily Jun 13 21:50:56 when i saw it on jimmy fallon Jun 13 21:50:59 the one they demonstrated Jun 13 21:51:03 it didnt look very strong Jun 13 21:51:06 tictac: maybe you're not placing it properly? Jun 13 21:51:12 it looked like he had to carefully rest it on the touchstone Jun 13 21:51:21 i wanted to use the touchstone on my car, but i'm pretty sure the phone will fly off when a jackass infront of me stomps on the brakes Jun 13 21:51:29 haha Jun 13 21:51:32 thats what I wanted as well, in the car Jun 13 21:51:50 may end up hacking a mount with super magnets. Jun 13 21:52:08 just make sure to cover the magnets with like felt cloth or something Jun 13 21:52:09 giovani: i place it directly center on the phone Jun 13 21:52:14 dont want to scratch up your phone :o Jun 13 21:52:19 yeah Jun 13 21:52:25 well everyone is free to go to a sprint store Jun 13 21:52:29 they have the phones sitting on touchstones Jun 13 21:52:32 i have to place mine on the touchstone a bit higher up on the pre Jun 13 21:52:35 I tried it out -- the magnets were quite strong Jun 13 21:52:35 rawdr: that may not be the greatest idea Jun 13 21:52:41 if it's smack in the center of the back of the phone, the grip isn't that great Jun 13 21:52:45 magnets = death for data Jun 13 21:52:56 for magnetically stored data Jun 13 21:53:01 nebula: no magnetic media in the pre Jun 13 21:53:05 yeah Jun 13 21:53:08 its all solid state Jun 13 21:53:08 ok then ;) Jun 13 21:53:14 oh i'm dumb then Jun 13 21:53:15 you didn't know that? haha Jun 13 21:53:16 i wish the touchstone came with the power cable. Jun 13 21:53:27 hey hey watch it :) Jun 13 21:53:32 i'm not perfect Jun 13 21:53:33 lol Jun 13 21:53:42 tictac: if it did, they'd simply add the cost Jun 13 21:53:45 i need to find where the touchstone info is. Jun 13 21:53:57 giovani: it was $70 anyway. that should include a damn cord. Jun 13 21:53:59 for i in $(echo ".schema" |sqlite3 /tmp/pdb.db3 |grep "CREATE TABLE"|cut -f3 -d" "); do echo SELECT \* FROM ${i}';'|sqlite3 /tmp/pdb.db3|grep -i foop;done|0|0|6245||pID31885837205664||1244928821510||6245|||6|||SMS||2|2|12094627906327|11|339225| Jun 13 21:53:59 |4|0||||||0|9895604649985|15393162793934|14|339223|||||||||||||||||||||| Jun 13 21:54:00 hm Jun 13 21:54:02 no kidding tictac, I was annoyed the pre only came with one cable of any kind. use to a charger plus a data cable Jun 13 21:54:08 tell me, do you see foop in there? Jun 13 21:54:14 yeah Jun 13 21:54:23 tictac: sure ... but that's where they make money -- buy it online ... MUCH cheaper Jun 13 21:54:25 fooooop Jun 13 21:54:30 :-/ Jun 13 21:54:38 $50 bucks online right? with the back? Jun 13 21:54:44 oh well. Jun 13 21:54:44 is it cheaper than that? Jun 13 21:54:48 cheaper if you shop around Jun 13 21:55:00 interested in links if you got any Jun 13 21:55:13 well everyone (including sprint) is sold out of it right now Jun 13 21:55:15 its funny the touchstone costs at most 5 bucks to make Jun 13 21:55:18 i just ordered two more usb cables for it off newegg for $12 shipped. Jun 13 21:55:33 tictac: link? Jun 13 21:55:47 just search newegg for micro usb cables. Jun 13 21:55:50 I ordered like 6 different microusb accessories on monoprice for 20 bucks Jun 13 21:55:55 tictac: the touchstone requires the AC adapter afaik Jun 13 21:56:03 USB2 power only supplies 500mA Jun 13 21:56:03 i got a 3' $2 for the car and a 6' for $3 Jun 13 21:56:08 the AC adapter provides 1A Jun 13 21:56:22 giovani: no. it plugs into the same charger that the phone came with. Jun 13 21:56:23 i don't know about you guys, but i'm waiting for monster to come out with mini usb cables Jun 13 21:56:30 heh Jun 13 21:56:32 no kidding Jun 13 21:56:35 it will _NOT_ work plugged into a laptop or other usb powered device Jun 13 21:56:36 tictac: yes, I'm aware -- that's the AC adapter Jun 13 21:56:42 I just said that ... Jun 13 21:56:47 I can tell my pre is just not happy about charging from such crappy cables Jun 13 21:56:47 well yea. Jun 13 21:57:06 ShinAli: micro-usb, you mean? Jun 13 21:57:13 WHATEVER Jun 13 21:57:23 monster is way over priced. Jun 13 21:57:24 all these different usbs Jun 13 21:57:26 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812189165 Jun 13 21:57:31 gonna be the death of me Jun 13 21:57:31 6ft - for the lazy Jun 13 21:57:43 do monoprice guys... let me get links.... Jun 13 21:57:44 nebula: now your pre's gonna blow up Jun 13 21:58:21 wtf Jun 13 21:58:42 is that what sprint told you, heh Jun 13 21:58:52 Palm told us that Jun 13 21:58:56 pre go boom Jun 13 21:59:03 riiiight Jun 13 21:59:14 coz i've used my old 800w cables and they work the same Jun 13 21:59:24 it's just building up Jun 13 21:59:26 doh. /media/internal is erased when webDoctor does it's thing. Jun 13 21:59:27 for the big explosion Jun 13 21:59:28 beware. Jun 13 21:59:49 oh no my mario.nes file! Jun 13 22:00:31 apps are saved as are contacts and email accounts (via some communication between phone and palm profile) Jun 13 22:00:47 i thought the profile was just for contacts, but obviously i was wrong. Jun 13 22:02:14 wtf... why didn't i think of this before... Jun 13 22:02:23 2 1.5ft, 2 3ft, 2 6ft, 2 car chargers, $20 shipped. go to monoprice's wishlist and import folder 88479611231942S Jun 13 22:02:32 the update server can easily be found by tcpdump while checking for an update, lol Jun 13 22:04:08 so who is hacking away? Jun 13 22:04:23 are you asking yourself? Jun 13 22:04:31 hehe Jun 13 22:04:37 /rimshot Jun 13 22:06:41 who else thinks the baseball app is the best and ugliest app in the store right now? Jun 13 22:06:54 theres a baseball app? Jun 13 22:07:06 yes, its great Jun 13 22:07:13 but its so god damned ugly Jun 13 22:07:22 why's it great? Jun 13 22:07:35 ShinAli: cant you fix it Jun 13 22:07:43 you have access to the source Jun 13 22:07:58 i like baseball a lot and it has a lot of stuff thats pretty useful. and it follows current games real well Jun 13 22:08:06 There was an update on classic... wonder what changed. Jun 13 22:08:29 classic doesn't support network apps right? Jun 13 22:08:35 not yet Jun 13 22:08:43 whoiswhois: i could but i've got more important things to focus on Jun 13 22:08:48 tried ptunes, gives me a stupid error Jun 13 22:08:49 rawdr: hmm yep. cheaper. Jun 13 22:09:02 ShinAli: lies...its the weekend Jun 13 22:09:05 tictac: eh? it does? Jun 13 22:09:14 regarding the pre, i mean Jun 13 22:09:15 what? Jun 13 22:09:19 No sound support either... the only reason I want classic is to run Kinoma so that leaves me out. Jun 13 22:09:32 i wanted to fix the contacts app Jun 13 22:09:39 but i dont see a seperate app Jun 13 22:10:00 ShinAli: what else u doin? Jun 13 22:10:18 disassembling native files Jun 13 22:10:23 :) Jun 13 22:10:29 that does sound more fun Jun 13 22:10:42 installing ssh right now so i can copy everything onto my local drive Jun 13 22:11:09 anyone want to help me figure out novacomd terminal over usb so you linux nerds can get in on this action ? Jun 13 22:11:55 i do Jun 13 22:12:05 bpadalino: i would but i wouldn't know where to begin Jun 13 22:12:06 Hey, so until we figure out a fix, can someone add to the wiki that creating the loopback /opt breaks usb-drive mode? Jun 13 22:12:21 i have some USB dumps ... i know the endpoints they're using .. Jun 13 22:12:21 in the Optware package feed page Jun 13 22:12:24 ripper: aight Jun 13 22:12:52 ty Jun 13 22:14:37 is there anyway to install openssh without breaking the usb drive mode Jun 13 22:14:55 yeah if you install it in the palm directory Jun 13 22:15:07 so then an update my break it Jun 13 22:15:10 but thats subject to deletion Jun 13 22:15:14 if you install an update Jun 13 22:15:35 so basically oyu have to choose Jun 13 22:15:51 either keep your optware install safe by using a loopback Jun 13 22:15:55 and break usb Jun 13 22:15:55 or Jun 13 22:16:02 risk your optware and keep usb Jun 13 22:16:13 ill let the usb break Jun 13 22:16:15 ill have ssh Jun 13 22:16:18 damn it. Jun 13 22:16:18 i dont need usb Jun 13 22:16:22 i still cant use loop Jun 13 22:16:29 bpadalino, did the driver file change from earlier? Jun 13 22:16:55 bdumm, not really .. same one Jun 13 22:17:04 i have some usb packet dumps now .. Jun 13 22:17:22 it looks like there is a back and forth polling going on too .. Jun 13 22:17:30 i am not sure it's necessary or what Jun 13 22:17:42 did anyone else change launcher-assistant.js to add/delete pages and screw up their launcher? Jun 13 22:18:05 LOL I changed launcher .. i didn't screw up my launcher Jun 13 22:18:14 I can't view any apps. Jun 13 22:18:24 uhh.... backed it up? Jun 13 22:18:34 no Jun 13 22:18:39 can you send me yours? Jun 13 22:18:47 you have it the back up. Jun 13 22:18:53 -o loop=/dev/loop1 still tries to use loop0 Jun 13 22:18:54 hmm? Jun 13 22:18:56 it's in the webOS Source Jun 13 22:18:56 I broke it once, I think it was due to screwy line breaks in vi Jun 13 22:19:02 I fixed it thouhg Jun 13 22:19:14 i still get Invalid argument when trying to mount anything in /media/internal Jun 13 22:19:21 I did a search real quick but didn't see it, i'll look again Jun 13 22:19:48 it's in the same directory as on the device in the tar'ed image. Jun 13 22:19:58 yeah Jun 13 22:21:41 tictac, use losetup to change associations of your devices ? Jun 13 22:22:32 Does anybody know how to run webos with qemu? Jun 13 22:22:44 bpadalino: losetup -a doesnt list any being used but mount says Invalud argument whenever i choose (-o loop=/dev/loop1) or dont (-o loop) the specific loop device Jun 13 22:23:02 bpadalino, my os<->usb<->pre all work correctly, see /media/internal in filesystems on os etc but when I run precomd is complains Jun 13 22:23:13 ERROR: Novacom not found - are you sure your pre is plugged in? Jun 13 22:23:45 bdumm, are you in dev mode ? Jun 13 22:23:56 oh forgot sorry one moment :) Jun 13 22:24:47 i just noticed that the palm knows whether you are plugging in an authentic palm battery or not. Jun 13 22:25:23 http://webos.pastebin.com/m55de73c4 Jun 13 22:26:19 the aliens? Jun 13 22:27:06 * bdumm waits for the reboot..... Jun 13 22:27:10 added the warning to wiki Jun 13 22:27:27 which? Jun 13 22:27:52 about optware and media mode Jun 13 22:28:29 bpadalino, i got success, want the results in a pastebin? Jun 13 22:28:44 sure! Jun 13 22:28:54 tictac also i suspect losetup lies as i've mounted to /dev/loop1 Jun 13 22:29:02 morning Jun 13 22:29:12 morning Jun 13 22:29:13 morning rwhitby Jun 13 22:29:25 morning rwhitby Jun 13 22:29:29 rwhitby: surprise development, optware loopback breaks usb drive mode Jun 13 22:29:50 hmm - that's unexpected Jun 13 22:29:51 http://webos.pastebin.com/m616f83bc Jun 13 22:30:15 moaning rwhitby Jun 13 22:30:20 thanks! Jun 13 22:30:27 we'll see if i can get this a little further Jun 13 22:30:38 ShinAli: do we know why? Jun 13 22:30:44 yup Jun 13 22:30:48 np, i can do more testing, gotta do some house wok atm though, will check in a moment.... Jun 13 22:30:58 rwhitby, when in mass storage mode, /media/internal gets unbounded Jun 13 22:31:01 when it gets into mediasync/usb mode, it tries to umount /media/internal Jun 13 22:31:01 sure Jun 13 22:31:06 beaten Jun 13 22:31:22 well that sucks Jun 13 22:31:27 yes. Jun 13 22:31:30 not sure where it gets unmounted tho Jun 13 22:31:55 so unless you rework how the device serves up its storage via usb Jun 13 22:31:58 were SOL Jun 13 22:32:06 ok, so do we have to resize the vfat and create anothe lvm partition? Jun 13 22:32:09 not SOL .. just limited to the storage in /var Jun 13 22:32:25 or you could repartition the internal media Jun 13 22:32:26 which gets wiped on update, right? Jun 13 22:32:31 rwhitby: would we want that? Jun 13 22:32:31 bpadalino: you got a df and mount somewhere I can see? Jun 13 22:32:33 of course it unmounts it! Jun 13 22:32:42 could always send your file(s) to your palm profile lol Jun 13 22:32:44 haha Jun 13 22:32:49 You cannot have two OSes directly mounting the same physical blocks. :) Jun 13 22:32:49 j0sh, no /var stores preferences and installed apps .. Jun 13 22:32:57 right Jun 13 22:33:05 hi Jun 13 22:33:05 so how much storage is that Jun 13 22:33:26 couldn't we make it fireoff a script everytime it gets in and out of usb/media mode? Jun 13 22:33:27 does somebody know how to run webos with qemu? Jun 13 22:33:32 * rwhitby wonders how long cdm has been waiting for us to realise this ... Jun 13 22:33:36 /dev/mapper/store-var Jun 13 22:33:36 248.0M 53.4M 194.6M 22% /var Jun 13 22:33:40 lol rwhitby Jun 13 22:33:57 rwhitby, i think they have a betting board going... Jun 13 22:33:58 ShinAli: there'd be too many processes running off /opt to do the unmount Jun 13 22:34:18 is that 53 in use and 194 free, or 53 free and 192 in use Jun 13 22:34:31 194 free Jun 13 22:34:32 22% used Jun 13 22:34:39 thats not awful Jun 13 22:34:52 yeah, but not enough to have emacs and asterisk on there Jun 13 22:35:09 anyone been able to remove the NASCAR app yet? Jun 13 22:35:13 (and still leave room for Palm to use it too) Jun 13 22:35:30 rwhitby: so far its only dropbear... Jun 13 22:35:35 all installed apps have to go there too - remember .. Jun 13 22:35:41 but i see your point Jun 13 22:35:44 I expect /var needs a fair bit of free space for updates to work Jun 13 22:36:01 rwhitby, actually - i looked yesterday .. Jun 13 22:36:03 why not use some dropbox place and build a service app to store periodically your file(s) from the usb? Jun 13 22:36:08 downloads actually go to /media/internal/downloads Jun 13 22:36:11 and are installed from there Jun 13 22:36:21 and cdm of course you can have two oses mounting the same physical blocks, long as youre using a clustered file system like vmfs or gfs Jun 13 22:36:25 of course Jun 13 22:36:27 important/personal data stuffs keep in /var? Jun 13 22:36:28 the pre very does not Jun 13 22:36:29 i saw the dbus messages Jun 13 22:36:32 has anyone got sftp functional with dropbear? Jun 13 22:36:56 Steve: Scp works with it. Jun 13 22:37:00 steviebuns: should just work with openssh-sftp-server Jun 13 22:37:22 j0sh, i am pretty sure the OMAP is still in charge of writing to the USB .. i don't thnk it gives up all control Jun 13 22:37:23 it's not in the ipkg list, using the source http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable Jun 13 22:37:23 bpadalino: so /var is largest free space? Jun 13 22:37:28 that's the bottle neck Jun 13 22:37:45 bpadalino: id guess it is Jun 13 22:37:48 ls Jun 13 22:37:56 but that may very well be our salvation Jun 13 22:37:57 rwhitby, other than media yeah Jun 13 22:38:04 steviebuns: sure it is: http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/openssh-sftp-server_5.2p1-2_arm.ipk Jun 13 22:38:23 Has anyone tried lvreducing the /dev/store/media volume? Jun 13 22:38:27 there is also /media/ram - which is stored as a tmpfs Jun 13 22:38:31 not sure what exactly that is Jun 13 22:38:33 rwhitby: stupid mistake, using 'ipkg' instead of /opt/bin/ipkg Jun 13 22:38:35 tmpfs 119.6M 0 119.6M 0% /media/ram Jun 13 22:38:41 ram? Jun 13 22:39:12 bpadalino: maybe some type of swap space Jun 13 22:39:28 j0sh: Sure, not with FAT32 though. Jun 13 22:39:36 you don't want to use tmpfs for optware stuff Jun 13 22:39:43 tmpfs 119.6M 0 119.6M 0% /media/ram Jun 13 22:40:04 Would it be possible to repartition media and pull say a gig off for another file system? Jun 13 22:40:41 rwhitby: but i don't get it .. Jun 13 22:40:44 Lurking_Grue: should be. Jun 13 22:40:51 Lurking_Grue: don't want to mess with the partitioning - that's likely to break stuff Jun 13 22:40:51 256M ram shows up in top .. Jun 13 22:40:58 or pretty darn close Jun 13 22:41:13 so how could 120 of that be used for a ram drive ? Jun 13 22:41:15 bpadalino: tmpfs doesn't take away from ram until it's used. it's like a sparse file. Jun 13 22:41:21 aahhh Jun 13 22:41:21 i see Jun 13 22:41:46 mount Jun 13 22:41:50 doh Jun 13 22:42:03 how big is / again? Jun 13 22:42:12 * bdumm going to start calling this the #webos-command channel Jun 13 22:42:14 366M Jun 13 22:42:21 err 441 Jun 13 22:43:15 so a 450M partition before rootfs starts with it Jun 13 22:43:58 and palm installs stuff in / or /var ? Jun 13 22:44:28 /var/usr/palm/applications Jun 13 22:44:31 yes Jun 13 22:44:34 anyone used the Pm commands? or got a handy ref for them besides thier names? Jun 13 22:44:42 /var Jun 13 22:44:52 bdumm: they have interesting 'strings' in them Jun 13 22:45:01 thx Jun 13 22:45:23 all these captialized commands look fun... :) Jun 13 22:45:25 Looks like we need to move to /var/opt then Jun 13 22:45:29 bdumm: :) LISTEN Jun 13 22:45:34 ah - ok .. /media/ram is the swap space ... Jun 13 22:45:39 So you're limited to 250MB worth of apps. Wonder why they didn't make apps go into the internal drive. Jun 13 22:45:43 bpadalino: nope Jun 13 22:45:49 cdm, !! Jun 13 22:45:49 swap is a different partition Jun 13 22:45:54 so many partitions Jun 13 22:46:19 ripper: it's a consumer phone. more music, less apps. Jun 13 22:46:45 possibly hard to make apps work on vfat too. and the usb had to be vfat. Jun 13 22:47:04 so you've got the onenand PoP on top of the omap .. ddr + flash (2GB????) then the external 8GB flash ... and another external DDR ram ? Jun 13 22:47:06 Oh, good point about vfat. Jun 13 22:47:17 ripper: the apps themselves are small. Jun 13 22:47:33 optware apps are quite optimised for size, yes. Jun 13 22:47:41 (compared to, say, Debian) Jun 13 22:47:43 ripper: r2.0M com.accuweather.palm Jun 13 22:47:57 Yeah, I was thinking about apps that might want to store a lot of data locally, but I suppose those apps could always store their databases on the other partition but be installed in /var Jun 13 22:48:08 well thats the normal ipkg style. small as possible. Jun 13 22:48:18 why do people think there is NAND pop'd with the OMAP? Jun 13 22:49:00 save space? Jun 13 22:49:09 we've used samsung for our omap2420's .. Jun 13 22:49:13 interesting Jun 13 22:49:23 well, I guess you will have to wait for the real teardown report to know for sure.. Jun 13 22:49:38 but the 3430 can boot directly from MMC Jun 13 22:49:55 I just resized the media volume and created a 700MB "opt" volume Jun 13 22:50:05 you've got a tiny MMC rom on there for booting ? Jun 13 22:50:19 i get so off track - i was looking at USB dumps :( Jun 13 22:50:40 let me look at theifixit teardown again Jun 13 22:52:00 cdm, you guys should look into gore shields for your shielding - much cheaper solution i think but gives 70dB isolation Jun 13 22:52:07 easy to setup multiple sections too Jun 13 22:52:23 http://www.gore.com/en_xx/products/electronic/emi/snapshot/index.html - pretty neat Jun 13 22:52:42 Halcyonandoff2: can you put the commands on the wiki please? Jun 13 22:52:57 Let me make sure it's all good, first Jun 13 22:53:17 I think we're not going to be able to make a final decision on this until either we see the first update, or we get some guidance from the Palm folks here ... Jun 13 22:53:33 So options so far are /var/opt vs resize lvm. Jun 13 22:53:33 Halcyonandoff2: i just did the same thing but i gave it a gig Jun 13 22:53:49 im tired of messing with my broken loopback devices. Jun 13 22:54:04 I guess we know lvm's not going to be restarted at any time while the device is booted ;-) Jun 13 22:54:13 nope. :P Jun 13 22:54:42 whats the solution for having root permissions when sftp-ing into the pre? Jun 13 22:54:54 for having rw permissions anyway Jun 13 22:55:00 What's your /media/internal reporting in df -h? Jun 13 22:55:08 and if we call it 'optware' rather than just 'opt' then Palm won't be using that name anytime ... (until they realise how good optware is and want to make it part of the base OS ...) Jun 13 22:55:23 rawdr: set up ssh keys for root Jun 13 22:57:10 Halcyonandoff2: can you dynamically resize the optware volume once you create it, or are you locked in Jun 13 22:57:11 7979164 1k blocks accounted for in df ... maybe that is just the whole 8GB and the elpida really is just ddr Jun 13 22:57:23 thanks whitby Jun 13 22:58:52 j0sh: I don't know. I'm not very familiar with lvm. There's an lvresize command, but I don't think it guarantees to preserve data on the volume. Jun 13 22:59:04 hrm Jun 13 22:59:14 My lvreduced "media" volume is still reporting 6.7G in df Jun 13 22:59:19 But 6G in lvm Jun 13 22:59:29 :) Jun 13 22:59:42 So I guess I need to rebuild the filesystem Jun 13 22:59:47 I assume the stuff you are pulling in is just from another OE distro right? Jun 13 23:00:36 cdm: actually, it's not from OE. It's a separate effort which predated my OE involvement Jun 13 23:01:08 If we built stuff with OE, it'd get mixed up in the Palm ipkg database in /usr/lib/ipkg/... Jun 13 23:01:17 (which we're assuming will conflict with your updates) Jun 13 23:01:35 Optware recompiles apps to only touch stuff under /opt Jun 13 23:01:42 So no conflicts with the vendor firmware. Jun 13 23:01:42 you can actually point ipkg's at different repos Jun 13 23:01:59 yeah, I know that (I run nslu2-linux.org) Jun 13 23:02:08 one thing I have been trying to figure out is if we can eventually get it to be smart... Jun 13 23:02:09 but we're trying to be as non-intrusive as possible Jun 13 23:02:22 Halcyonandoff2: sorry to sound retarded, but how do i use lvm Jun 13 23:02:23 ie: grab dependancies from / but install stuff in /var Jun 13 23:02:37 tictac: Did you mkfs.vfat the "media" volume after you reduced it? Jun 13 23:03:02 basically have a notion of 'read-only' local repositories of installed packages. Jun 13 23:03:03 cdm: I'd be very happy to work with someone on your team on defining a supported way for third-party ipkg repository support ... Jun 13 23:03:46 i'm getting error: [Errno 10061] No connection could be made because the target machine actively refused it Jun 13 23:03:53 running windows 7 RC Jun 13 23:03:53 j0sh: I'm probably not the person to be asking. I've just been poking around on google to try and figure it out, myself. Try googling for "lvscan" "lvreduce" and "lvcreate" Jun 13 23:03:56 firewall disabled Jun 13 23:04:08 well i meant like Jun 13 23:04:12 as simple as the commands Jun 13 23:04:16 cause i get "not found" Jun 13 23:04:17 on those Jun 13 23:04:21 Mucking with the volumes is a good way to potentially screw things up, be careful Jun 13 23:04:22 oh yeah Jun 13 23:04:26 I got that too Jun 13 23:04:27 run "lvm" Jun 13 23:04:32 yeah Jun 13 23:04:32 same Jun 13 23:04:32 then type the commands into the subshell Jun 13 23:04:37 oh? Jun 13 23:04:40 not found on that too Jun 13 23:04:41 lvm alone doesn't work? Jun 13 23:04:47 yep Jun 13 23:04:52 do you have a /usr/sbin/lvm ? Jun 13 23:05:04 ohi Jun 13 23:05:05 that worked Jun 13 23:05:10 i tried /sbin/lvm Jun 13 23:05:12 but that didnt Jun 13 23:05:18 /usr/sbin did though Jun 13 23:05:48 can anyone help, trying to root my pre ? Jun 13 23:05:55 yeah man Jun 13 23:06:02 a) use vista/2k8 or earlier Jun 13 23:06:08 b) make sure no firewalls/av is on Jun 13 23:06:20 it doesnt work on win7, i had the same problem Jun 13 23:06:27 but it worked on my server 2k8 box Jun 13 23:06:39 damn, i have 3 machines all win 7 Jun 13 23:06:45 ownt Jun 13 23:06:46 use vmware Jun 13 23:06:52 win7 does some funky networking stuff Jun 13 23:06:58 Halcyonandoff2: no i did not have to recreate the fs on /media/internal Jun 13 23:07:03 I really need to install XP in a vm rather than rebooting Jun 13 23:07:04 :-/ Jun 13 23:07:18 tictac: Is there a vfat resize command? Jun 13 23:07:20 has anyone tried winxp mode in win7? Jun 13 23:07:34 Morgren: I rooted mine on win7 but I had vmware running XP. Vmware can mount usb. Jun 13 23:07:35 Halcyonandoff2: im going to post the details on the wiki. Jun 13 23:07:40 danke Jun 13 23:07:43 Halcyonandoff2: you shouldnt need to. it works fine as is. Jun 13 23:07:49 I didn't try xpmode. Jun 13 23:07:57 Yeah, for now Jun 13 23:07:58 vmware server/workstation can, ESX/ESXi cannot Jun 13 23:08:06 but the vfat fs still thinks it's a 6.7G partition Jun 13 23:08:06 im going to copy a bunch of stuff to /media/internal to fill it up just in case before i throw this info on the wiki. Jun 13 23:08:13 Which will cause problems down the road Jun 13 23:08:21 which is why im testing now to see :) Jun 13 23:08:31 anyone know anything about the .db files? Jun 13 23:08:33 dd ftw. Jun 13 23:08:39 j0sh: I doubt someone running 3 windows 7 machines is considering running ESX/ESXi Jun 13 23:08:40 halcyonandoff2 - German? Jun 13 23:08:44 haha Jun 13 23:08:49 i have an esxi box Jun 13 23:08:53 and 2 win7 boxes Jun 13 23:08:59 and you have no otherm achines? Jun 13 23:09:00 and a server 2k8 Jun 13 23:09:05 4 machines total Jun 13 23:09:06 god you windows people Jun 13 23:09:08 scare me Jun 13 23:09:13 No, that's one of the 25 German words I happen to know :-) Jun 13 23:09:23 great Jun 13 23:09:30 bah busybox dd sucks. Jun 13 23:09:33 the esxi machine is running a few xp boxes, and a server 2k8 box Jun 13 23:10:02 nvm, its sqlite Jun 13 23:13:16 what doesnt work on windows 7? Jun 13 23:13:35 the talker python file? Jun 13 23:13:54 yeah Jun 13 23:13:59 you get communication errors Jun 13 23:14:04 niice.. Jun 13 23:14:10 even w/ windows firewall disabled? Jun 13 23:14:15 very disabled Jun 13 23:14:17 very not working Jun 13 23:14:18 mmk Jun 13 23:14:27 yeah, oh well, XP VM is free Jun 13 23:14:38 it is? Jun 13 23:14:40 is it now Jun 13 23:14:41 yes Jun 13 23:14:46 how sure are you Jun 13 23:14:48 you mean within win7 or in general? Jun 13 23:14:50 100% Jun 13 23:14:54 with windows 7 Jun 13 23:14:57 ah Jun 13 23:14:59 or windows vista ultimate Jun 13 23:15:01 well that makes sense Jun 13 23:15:06 but using what version Jun 13 23:15:13 retail, oem, volume Jun 13 23:15:14 which version of what Jun 13 23:15:14 and what key Jun 13 23:15:19 windows 7 RC Jun 13 23:15:23 i know Jun 13 23:15:23 Just install OS X ;-) Jun 13 23:15:23 thats the only windows 7 there is right now Jun 13 23:15:26 of xp he means Jun 13 23:15:27 but which type of XP Jun 13 23:15:29 ohhh Jun 13 23:15:30 XP pro Jun 13 23:15:32 afaik Jun 13 23:15:35 sigh Jun 13 23:15:40 let me check Jun 13 23:15:41 xp pro oem volume or retail Jun 13 23:15:55 Im not sure Jun 13 23:15:57 does it matter? Jun 13 23:16:01 I figure its something different entirely j0sh... otherwise it'd be too simple to install on a normal machine with that license right? Jun 13 23:16:01 yeah, like Jun 13 23:16:08 hahaha Jun 13 23:16:24 well if its the volume version, theres no activation or any of that crap Jun 13 23:16:29 and i can use custom builds i already have Jun 13 23:16:31 and such Jun 13 23:16:34 theres no activation stuff Jun 13 23:16:40 read(57, "l\1\1\1r\0\0\0\340\0\0\0g\0\0\0\1\1o\0\4\0\0\0/sms\0\0\0\0\6\1s\0\30\0\0\0com.palm.messagingrouter\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\2\1s\0\10\0\0\0org.json\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\1s\0\7\0\0\0sendsms\0\10\1g\0\1s\0\0m\0\0\0{\"body\":\"Foopdayoop\",\"priority\":\"normal\",\"address\":\"6245\",\"deliveryReportOptions\":\"none\",\"callbackNumber\":\"\"}\0", 2048) = 234 Jun 13 23:16:40 you dont have to register it Jun 13 23:16:47 read(67, "l\1\1\1r\0\0\0\2\0\0\0g\0\0\0\1\1o\0\1\0\0\0/\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\6\1s\0\30\0\0\0com.palm.messagingrouter\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\2\1s\0\10\0\0\0org.json\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\1s\0\7\0\0\0sendsms\0\10\1g\0\1s\0\0m\0\0\0{\"body\":\"foopdayoop\",\"priority\":\"normal\",\"address\":\"1234\",\"deliveryReportOptions\":\"none\",\"callbackNumber\":\"\"}\0l\1\1\1Y\0\0\0\3\0\0\0\177\0\0\0\1\1o\0\25\0\0\0/org/freedesktop/DBus\0\0\0\6\1s\0\24\0\0\0org.freedes Jun 13 23:16:47 ktop.DBus\0\0\0\0\2\1s\0\24\0\0\0org.freedesktop.DBus\0\0\0\0\3\1s\0\10\0\0\0AddMatch\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\10\1g\0\1s\0\0T\0\0\0interface=org.freedesktop.DBus,member=NameOwnerChanged,arg0=com.palm.messagingrouter\0", 2048) = 467 Jun 13 23:16:51 hi sargun. Jun 13 23:16:55 do you even install it? I am only guessing but assume it comes from MS as a prebuilt appliance type thing Jun 13 23:16:57 why isn't the second one working Jun 13 23:17:03 ** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, {"errorCode":"ErrorGenericUnknownMethod", "errorText":"Unknown Method"} Jun 13 23:17:25 sargun, which method are you trying to do ? Jun 13 23:17:45 and are you using dbus send ? Jun 13 23:17:49 bpadalino, root@castle:/var/home/root# luna-send -n 2 palm://com.palm.messagingrouter/sendsms '{"body":"foopdayoop","priority":"normal","address":"1234","deliveryReportOptions":"none","cal Jun 13 23:17:49 lbackNumber":""}' Jun 13 23:18:01 oh, you're sending to luna Jun 13 23:18:04 since there are a lot of jar files in the image - there has to be a jre, right? Jun 13 23:18:06 http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtual-pc/default.aspx Jun 13 23:18:11 which version is it Jun 13 23:18:15 why not just send using dbus ? Jun 13 23:18:25 Halcyonandoff2: is there a qparted app in ipkg-opt? Jun 13 23:18:42 can some one post the out put of java -version - here or on the wiki? Jun 13 23:19:06 its diff on each machine. Jun 13 23:19:11 my linux box here has 1.6 Jun 13 23:19:21 OpenJDK Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_0-b11) Jun 13 23:19:21 OpenJDK Server VM (build 1.6.0_0-b11, mixed mode) Jun 13 23:19:24 so if i wanted to move my optware install right now, all id have to do is telnet into the device, unmount and move the optware.ext3 file, and then remount it? Jun 13 23:19:27 root@castle:/media/ram# /usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5-palm/bin/java --version Jun 13 23:19:27 Oasis VM Oasis-Linux-WebConsole-LightLocks-Generational-GCC_Goto_Optimizations-SingleSlot Jun 13 23:19:27 or am i missing something Jun 13 23:19:36 it differs ? - how? Jun 13 23:19:36 bbl, dinner time Jun 13 23:19:53 tictac: I'm not sure, I haven't actually installed it yet Jun 13 23:19:57 thanks Jun 13 23:20:05 np Jun 13 23:20:07 oops. Jun 13 23:20:16 my dd process is eating all the cpu. Jun 13 23:20:22 oh and there it crashes. Jun 13 23:20:54 too bad i didnt have that logged. Jun 13 23:21:03 d'oh Jun 13 23:21:33 umm. Jun 13 23:21:33 you should have a minicore in /var/minicores Jun 13 23:21:38 with backtraces Jun 13 23:21:53 and you probably just sent Palm a copy of it too... Jun 13 23:21:56 :) Jun 13 23:21:57 Man. This is is the best phone EVER. Jun 13 23:22:13 now the palm just sits there. soab. Jun 13 23:22:21 did it dance before? Jun 13 23:22:36 haha Jun 13 23:22:37 so Jun 13 23:22:45 dance? Jun 13 23:22:45 just successfully rooted using win xp mode on win 7 Jun 13 23:22:52 whatd you do Jun 13 23:22:53 nevermind Jun 13 23:23:03 how do i tell tar to extract to a specific folder? Jun 13 23:23:09 i'm getting retarded with linux Jun 13 23:23:12 haha Jun 13 23:23:35 Mogren: can you do a write-up on it? Jun 13 23:23:44 yeah that would be convenient Jun 13 23:23:50 ShinAli: -C /dir Jun 13 23:24:04 tar -C /opt -xf foo.tar Jun 13 23:24:10 tictac: what happened? can you hard-reset? Jun 13 23:24:42 whats the palm icon with the "flashing" behind it mean? Jun 13 23:24:50 booting Jun 13 23:24:51 means that the UI is booting back up Jun 13 23:25:02 hmm lets see if it comes back up. Jun 13 23:25:10 yeah that's the LunaSysMgr splash screen I think Jun 13 23:25:14 there's not much to write up, just open win xp mode and follow the instructions Jun 13 23:25:23 ah Jun 13 23:25:36 Mogren: oh, ok, I thought you meant Win 7 natively Jun 13 23:25:41 only trick is connecting the usb device to the guest os - but u just click usb - and attach next to the pre Jun 13 23:25:41 so is there an easy way i can copy the entire contents of the loopback filesystem to a new location Jun 13 23:26:05 summ that would be nice but i guess its only something you have to do once... Jun 13 23:26:07 j0sh: the loopback filesystem is inside of a file right? Jun 13 23:26:18 yes Jun 13 23:26:19 tictac: what is your phone's MEID? Jun 13 23:26:26 and i want to no longer use the loopback Jun 13 23:26:32 since i want usb to work Jun 13 23:26:41 i figure for now i can just use /var Jun 13 23:26:49 and create an optware folder there Jun 13 23:26:51 oh, I see Jun 13 23:26:55 (for a fun useless trick: killall LunaSysMgr && LunaSysMgr --ui=minimal) Jun 13 23:26:57 cdm: why do you want that Jun 13 23:27:11 j0sh: do you know for sure it's the loopback killing your usb? Jun 13 23:27:17 oh definitely Jun 13 23:27:21 weve been discussing this forever Jun 13 23:27:24 like hours Jun 13 23:27:29 I haven't been here, sorry Jun 13 23:27:32 yeah Jun 13 23:28:05 the device uses the loopback interface to present the storage over usb Jun 13 23:28:19 what? Jun 13 23:28:21 no Jun 13 23:28:25 oh Jun 13 23:28:25 ok Jun 13 23:28:27 correct me Jun 13 23:28:29 LOL Jun 13 23:28:35 the loopback mount keeps /media/internal mounted Jun 13 23:28:41 oh, i misunderstood Jun 13 23:28:41 so the system cannot unmount it Jun 13 23:28:46 j0sh: we're in discussion with Palm right now about the best way forward for /opt mounting ... Jun 13 23:28:51 really Jun 13 23:29:51 there were two options, right? either use /var, or resize the media/internal partition Jun 13 23:29:55 hwo can you prevent the pre from sleeping after a few mins? the max in the settings looks like 3 mins Jun 13 23:30:02 plug it in Jun 13 23:30:18 at the moment it looks like dreadchicken was right all along and /var/opt is the way to go. Just considering whether to just put stuff directly in /var/opt or use a fixed-size loopback file in there so it can't grow and fill /var Jun 13 23:30:39 ah Jun 13 23:30:40 thats smrt Jun 13 23:30:43 my touchscreen acts very strange when connected via usb does anyone elses? Jun 13 23:30:51 nope Jun 13 23:31:03 In essence, a fixed reduction in /var size looks like someone just installing lots of apps from the app store. Jun 13 23:31:09 if i touch 1 spot it shows the touch like 2 inches away Jun 13 23:31:20 but only when plugged in to a computer Jun 13 23:31:20 whoops Jun 13 23:31:23 rwhitby: what about the new lv solution? Jun 13 23:31:33 yeah, that seems to also work Jun 13 23:31:41 and provides more space for apps too Jun 13 23:31:55 since you can choose how much of the 6ish gb you want to use Jun 13 23:32:25 Question: I am attempting to bypass the activation process. I think I've edited the correct js file but I am unable to recreate the jar file to flash the phone. Everytime I try to run the far file it tells me it is invalid or corrupt. Ideas? Jun 13 23:32:40 Halcyonandoff2: being able to do in-the-field repartitions is likely to be the main reason for using lvm, and if we have an extra partition in there using space then that would likely stuff up the calculations when they want to repartition. Jun 13 23:32:50 Ajaxify: take that discussion elsewhere, we're not willing to help bypassing the activation process Jun 13 23:33:11 we'd like to keep the contents of this channel within legitimate realms Jun 13 23:33:15 as per /topic Jun 13 23:33:29 sorry, didn't realize that was "illegal". Apologies. Jun 13 23:33:43 Ajaxify: it violates the carrier terms of service I expect. Jun 13 23:33:54 what rwhitby said Jun 13 23:33:56 you bought the device from Sprint, right? Jun 13 23:34:09 I didn't buy it with a contract. Jun 13 23:34:54 so you've not signed anything or clicked through any license agreement? No fine print on the box that says you agree to something by using the phone? Jun 13 23:35:04 rwhitby: I would imagine lvm is a bit more robust than that... Jun 13 23:35:23 Halcyonandoff2: lvm is robust, but you still need to calculate how big you want to repartition each partition to Jun 13 23:35:49 activation process? that's not related to the carrier network if it's like iPhone or G1, just things like email accounts Jun 13 23:35:56 I'm not creating partitions, I'm creating volumes within lvm. Jun 13 23:35:58 im not sure making a diff optmedia partition is the way to go without "borking" media-store Jun 13 23:36:06 and palm probably don't want to have to handle the case where someone has used half the available space for an optware volume Jun 13 23:36:24 there isnt any way to resize the vfat without qparted, which isnt available. Jun 13 23:36:39 tictac: Just copy everything off, mkfs.vfat, and put everything back Jun 13 23:36:42 tmzt: Sprint's phones activate OTA, they setup their data connections, etc. that way Jun 13 23:36:50 or, my centro did, I assume they still do Jun 13 23:37:00 in cdma activation is different, no sim card but you have to call a number which starts a provisioning process in the phone, usually *228 Jun 13 23:37:06 right Jun 13 23:37:07 tictac: palm has the option of telling people that for this OTA update they need to backup their media and restore it ... Jun 13 23:37:20 yeah, but why is bypassing it to use as a pda a problem? Jun 13 23:37:21 or they just include a vfat resizer in the OTA upgrade package Jun 13 23:37:47 tmzt: depends on if it breaks contract/ToS Jun 13 23:38:13 which may not matter if you've not signed a contract Jun 13 23:39:10 rwhitby: According to the subscriber agreement pamphlet, I agree to something when: A) I sign contract b) accept Agreement orally or electrontic statement c) attempt to in any way use the services d) pay for the services; or E) open any package or start any program that says I am accepting an agreement when doing so. I have done none of these thigns. That said, if you still think it goes against the /topic I don't mean to cau Jun 13 23:39:48 Ajaxify: interesting Jun 13 23:40:10 yeah i cant dismount the loopback fs, says its busy Jun 13 23:40:10 the basic policy we're following is that we want to have a constructive relationship with pal, Jun 13 23:40:12 palm Jun 13 23:40:17 damn it. i forgot to same the lvcreate stuff. Jun 13 23:40:18 even though i shut down everything i thought was using it? Jun 13 23:40:34 Ajaxify: didn't mean to jump down your throat, I can be a bit blunt sometimes. Didn't mean to come off as angry :) Jun 13 23:40:36 palm sells phones to the carriers, so if the carriers get upset, Palm is probably forced to react. Jun 13 23:41:08 so we'd like to avoid palm needing to react to anything, and allow them to continue giving us enough rope to hang ourselves ;-) Jun 13 23:41:16 I agree. The carriers also sold me the phone without a contract, knowing that I didn't have a contract at a price. That is appartently the value of the phone to Sprint. Jun 13 23:41:34 *wow my spelling has been horrible... Jun 13 23:41:56 Ajaxify: agreed - this will also be a lot clearer when an unlocked GSM version is eventually released. Jun 13 23:42:45 how can i see what is accessing that filesystem, so i can shut it down and dismount it Jun 13 23:43:01 j0sh: are you logged in via dropbear? Jun 13 23:43:06 telnet Jun 13 23:43:14 i shut down dropbear already Jun 13 23:43:18 and you're not in /opt / Jun 13 23:43:19 ? Jun 13 23:43:21 and i had noip running Jun 13 23:43:22 j0sh: not sure if the pre has it, but lsof will list files being currently accessed Jun 13 23:43:22 try fuser Jun 13 23:43:29 pre has fuser Jun 13 23:43:31 shut that down too Jun 13 23:43:32 mk Jun 13 23:43:50 if any process is running from /opt, it will stop it umounting Jun 13 23:43:59 yeah Jun 13 23:44:03 but I've had trouble umounting as well. always ended up rebooting Jun 13 23:44:03 so i ran fuser -c /opt Jun 13 23:44:27 and i got uh Jun 13 23:44:45 /opt: 3841e 4283e Jun 13 23:44:48 rwhitby: I've got to run. Do you want me to take it elsewhere when I come back? Jun 13 23:45:06 bam Jun 13 23:45:08 gotit Jun 13 23:45:34 Ajaxify: I'd say check back, but it's possible we'll ask you to take it elsewhere Jun 13 23:45:42 if that's not too much hassle Jun 13 23:45:44 Ajaxify: I'm undecided at the moment, but wish to play it safe. Jun 13 23:46:17 Ajaxify: since I don't have the fine print in front of me to look at ... Jun 13 23:46:33 Thats cool. I'll check back later tonight. Jun 13 23:46:44 Ajaxify: thx for your patience :-) Jun 13 23:47:45 OK, looks like it's time to change the instructions to use /var/opt ... Jun 13 23:48:10 We'll just use it directly, and eventually have a version of ipkg-opt (or maybe change to using opkg) which checks free space before installing. Jun 13 23:48:25 (Openwrt have such an opkg patch in use right now for installing stuff on routers) Jun 13 23:49:06 we'd replace ipkg? Jun 13 23:49:25 summatusmentis: yes, but opkg has compatible packages and database, so it's not a big deal. Jun 13 23:49:59 eno: ping Jun 13 23:50:07 I'm going to move forward with the additional logical volume, and we'll just see what happens down the road :-) Jun 13 23:50:08 oh yeah, I know that. interesting Jun 13 23:50:14 haha freakin sweet Jun 13 23:50:18 usb works Jun 13 23:50:30 So, are you going to have ipkg-opt install to /var/opt or symlink /var/opt to /opt? Jun 13 23:50:40 ripper: bind mount Jun 13 23:51:08 driveby, camping (in the back yard) with my daughter tonight. bind it. Jun 13 23:51:13 Halcyonandoff2: im almost done with the write up Jun 13 23:51:30 back once she gets tired of camping :) Jun 13 23:51:36 still no word on resizing the vfat. im going to leave it alone as well for now. Jun 13 23:51:50 tictac: I'd suggest the move-recreate-replace (that's what I did) Jun 13 23:51:52 whoa, why we talking resizing? Jun 13 23:51:59 i might pull, recreate, push later on tonight or tomorrow and see how it affects things. Jun 13 23:52:16 dreadchicken: loop mounting seems to break usb connection Jun 13 23:52:21 gotcha Jun 13 23:52:29 I did: /dev/mapper/store-media Jun 13 23:52:29 6.0G 4.0k 6.0G 0% /media/internal Jun 13 23:52:47 /dev/store/optmedia 1023.6M 33.3M 938.3M 3% /opt Jun 13 23:53:13 my other concern with it were people suggesting multi-mounting /media/internal/optware.ext3...some people didn't get the implications of two boxes accessing the same ext3. Jun 13 23:53:34 actually, im going to push the data from store to the opt and then recreate store. Jun 13 23:53:35 out, back later. Jun 13 23:53:40 dreadchicken: we're gonna use /var/opt directly, and bind mount it as /opt Jun 13 23:54:09 palm's not gonna use /opt, and using lvm puts hurdles that palm don't want to have to jump over in the future. Jun 13 23:54:34 and putting stuff in /var/opt is equivalent to installing apps from the app store - we just need to be careful not to fill it. Jun 13 23:54:51 which means it stays after updates? Jun 13 23:55:02 oh that was the direction we are heading? Jun 13 23:55:04 we believe so, but no guarantee of course. Jun 13 23:55:11 clearly Jun 13 23:55:12 i was just going to use /opt directly mounted. Jun 13 23:55:17 :P Jun 13 23:55:31 backup over rsync or the like before updating. Jun 13 23:55:37 tictac: we're not going to use a separate lvm volume for the default instructions Jun 13 23:55:47 just use space in store-var directly Jun 13 23:55:48 I'll take the risk with the lvm solution. Jun 13 23:56:17 Halcyonandoff2: sure Jun 13 23:56:31 alright. ill make sure to alert readers that it can damage the pre if they dont know what they are doing (just like anything else really...) Jun 13 23:56:42 it will be sepeate from the default instructions. Jun 13 23:56:43 Halcyonandoff2: be aware that if palm decides to do an in-the-field update, you'll need to use the doctor to recover. Jun 13 23:57:07 We'll see. Jun 13 23:57:12 tictac: right - a separate page please, linked in at the right spot in the default instructions Jun 13 23:57:28 rwhitby: alright. too easy. Jun 13 23:57:43 I'd think the chances of Palm issuing an OTA update that modifies the LVM would be slim, but who knows. Jun 13 23:58:08 ripper: we have confirmation that it is an expected capability - whether they will use it or not is of course up to them. Jun 13 23:58:23 Anyone in here have any trouble with their "USB Drive" mode quitting on them? Jun 13 23:58:33 well, they're not gonna require users go to a sprint store to do it... Jun 13 23:59:06 Halcyonandoff2: see /msg Jun 13 23:59:10 yeah, i think that's why we did lvm, it's much more flexible Jun 13 23:59:32 if we had to move stuff around in a later update we could, though i think it'd be rare, because it'd be at the expense of the media partition Jun 13 23:59:32 VoodooGod: Being worked on as we speak. Check out the log for this channel. Caused becasue of the /opt loopback Jun 13 23:59:38 rwhitby: someone at palm confirmed it? Jun 13 23:59:46 tictac: yep Jun 13 23:59:49 ripper: that's what I figured. that was the last thing I changed. thanks for the info Jun 13 23:59:50 nevermind. i just read. :) Jun 14 00:00:00 well, i guess i just double confirmed Jun 14 00:00:01 :) Jun 14 00:00:30 also it was getting annoying with all the MBR partitions, extended, etc Jun 14 00:00:32 huh, i wonder what happens when the user fills up the app install space? Jun 14 00:00:47 and we couldn't use GPT partitions, due to a bootrom limitation Jun 14 00:01:41 ShinAli: I expect the installer will prevent that happening, as we will with ipkg-opt or opkg Jun 14 00:03:24 ShinAli: but yes, things like offline email databases could still fill /var I expect Jun 14 00:03:33 so Palm will need to be able to handle it well Jun 14 00:03:44 we're piggy-backing on that existing requirement to handle it :-) Jun 14 00:04:44 it's a shame there's no external media slot Jun 14 00:04:46 i'll take a look at the installer just in case Jun 14 00:05:18 summatusmentis: omap has usb on-the-go, which can act like a usb host Jun 14 00:05:47 though if the usb host part gets working, i wouldn't know how to tie it with webOS Jun 14 00:06:01 ShinAli: so micro-usb->external USB, hypothetically Jun 14 00:06:09 yup Jun 14 00:06:14 anyone modifying the instructions at the moment? Jun 14 00:06:14 i think Jun 14 00:06:19 it'd still be nice to have a microsd slot, I agree. Jun 14 00:06:25 well, it'd mount just like anything else, theoretically Jun 14 00:06:36 That'd be amazing. Plug in an external hdd and have my entire media collection in my car. Jun 14 00:06:36 my old Zaurus had usb host Jun 14 00:06:39 i think the sd part of omap is already being used? Jun 14 00:06:47 by the internal storage i mean Jun 14 00:07:25 are you saying thats why they didn't include one? Jun 14 00:07:41 well they could have obviously used something else Jun 14 00:07:48 right Jun 14 00:08:23 I wonder how easy it would be to upgrade internal storage Jun 14 00:08:36 * summatusmentis goes to find "insides of pre" article engadget made Jun 14 00:08:40 take a look at ifixit's teardown Jun 14 00:08:42 yup Jun 14 00:09:12 * rwhitby starts editing http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 14 00:13:16 can someone paste the fstab line for a bind mount of /var/opt onto /opt please ? Jun 14 00:13:36 ShinAli: http://www.rapidrepair.com/guides/Palm-Pre/images/palm-pre-memory-board-chips-1.jpg that Samsung chip is storage Jun 14 00:14:29 i thought that was the RAM? Jun 14 00:15:37 you thought wrong Jun 14 00:16:05 dang Jun 14 00:16:17 NAND apparently Jun 14 00:16:17 rwhitby: it would be mount --bind /var/opt /opt Jun 14 00:16:41 which means likely difficult without electical knowledge to upgrade Jun 14 00:16:49 tictac: fstab line Jun 14 00:16:52 what are you trying to upgrade? Jun 14 00:17:07 geist: just wondering how easy it'd be to upgrade internal storage Jun 14 00:17:18 you mean the mmc flash? Jun 14 00:17:32 oh i dont have one of those lemme do that Jun 14 00:17:44 prolly easier to install sd slot lol Jun 14 00:17:50 geist: yeah, upping the 8GB Jun 14 00:18:00 summatusmentis: got a soldering iron? Jun 14 00:18:03 ;) Jun 14 00:18:16 dealing with surface mount chips is not for the faint of heart Jun 14 00:18:29 tictac: well, clearly :) just looking into ease, I don't expect I'll ever do it Jun 14 00:18:39 geist: yeh, that's the sense I'm getting Jun 14 00:18:49 ooh. .. sounds like fun. anyone found a higher capacity alternative to that samsung chip? Jun 14 00:18:51 * asedeno_home looks at recent soldering iron burn on hand Jun 14 00:18:53 yeah... no Jun 14 00:18:54 hehe is their confirmed a model with sd slot? i'd crack one open. i work at an ASC so i can buy a dbr phone to try on Jun 14 00:19:15 rwhitby: /var/opt /opt auto bind 0 0 Jun 14 00:19:15 i'm not sure the omap has another sdio controller Jun 14 00:19:15 Can I have some people review the new http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository please? Jun 14 00:19:20 i think it's using both of them Jun 14 00:19:31 dang :( Jun 14 00:19:35 BinaryMan: the only "confirmed model" is the Pre right now Jun 14 00:19:35 manual would confirm that, which is public knowledge Jun 14 00:19:52 ripper: thx - I had ext3 instead of auto, but auto is better. Jun 14 00:20:00 yep. Jun 14 00:20:06 or maybe 'none' is better .... Jun 14 00:20:18 i like defaults,bind as options. Jun 14 00:20:47 defaults or default ? Jun 14 00:20:56 /var/opt opt bind defaults,bind 0 0 Jun 14 00:21:11 defaults Jun 14 00:21:13 geist, is that the main reason why no external sd? were the trade offs too big to workaround? Jun 14 00:21:15 forgot your slash tictac Jun 14 00:21:18 rawdr: no comment Jun 14 00:21:18 tictac: done Jun 14 00:21:24 err yea. Jun 14 00:21:25 i can only comment on things that are obvious or already discovered Jun 14 00:21:39 ripper: there is no space. :P Jun 14 00:21:49 thats pretty obvious. Jun 14 00:21:53 geist: and we appreciate your candor within the corporate constraints Jun 14 00:22:24 seriously :) geist++ Jun 14 00:22:29 I'm sure they could have gotten a slightly larger polished river stone :) Jun 14 00:22:34 i hope to promote synergy by aligning our core competencies Jun 14 00:22:35 hmm is there a way to save a pic from a text message? Jun 14 00:22:38 i only see copy. Jun 14 00:22:45 perhaps there is a place to paste... ? Jun 14 00:22:47 the take away from this meeting is we need to have another meeting Jun 14 00:22:59 geist: nice one Jun 14 00:23:22 ok, I'm gone for most of the day now. Jun 14 00:24:05 geist, ahah Jun 14 00:24:10 tah rwhitby Jun 14 00:24:56 did someone capture that action item? Jun 14 00:25:18 Oh crap Jun 14 00:25:21 Humans require food Jun 14 00:25:23 hehe Jun 14 00:25:23 I keep forgetting that Jun 14 00:25:27 It's logged. More meetings. Check. Jun 14 00:26:16 make sure you invite all the engineers so they can sit through it instead of getting work done Jun 14 00:26:28 Of course. Jun 14 00:27:04 Don't forget to require daily progess reports, so they can tell you they spent all day in meetings discussing how much detail should go into their daily progress reports. Jun 14 00:27:34 ooh, scrums Jun 14 00:27:35 asedeno_home: what do you do? if you don't mind my asking Jun 14 00:27:39 8 times a day Jun 14 00:27:55 Answer the phone right now. Jun 14 00:28:00 brb Jun 14 00:28:26 hey, has anyone gotten the bluetooth PAN working? seems like w/ SSH installed it should be a breeze to tether via SOCKS proxy? Jun 14 00:29:13 summatusmentis, he burns hands Jun 14 00:30:07 :) Jun 14 00:30:37 that's why i put two options for loop and /var/opt, i use /var/opt without issues. Jun 14 00:30:41 lhl: I'm not sure on the status of PAN Jun 14 00:33:09 summatusmentis: i've just started poking around, looks like there are some custom bt tools. BluetoothMonitor dumps some good info. the bt device is bs10 on 10.1.1.10 but i can't seem to connect to it from my mac. maybe i haven't tried hard enough Jun 14 00:33:31 geist, clearly what is missing is the addition of several levels of middle management. Jun 14 00:34:43 Has anyone been able to disable or modify the tones that are emmited when dialing on the Pre's phone application? Jun 14 00:34:48 lhl: for what it's worth, tethering is.. sort of touchy. If you're just messing with iptables and things that's fine. We just don't want to step on Sprints (and subsequently Palms) toes, so we try to stay within ToS and licensing agreements Jun 14 00:34:56 I can't seem to find the pressedKey function that is called. Jun 14 00:36:54 gotcha, no worries, will play w/ some other stuff. have python installed - has anyone installed cron, does it impact battery life much? Jun 14 00:37:32 lhl: so yeah, we'd appreciate it if you not discuss breaking the firmware and stuff, which it sounds like you aren't Jun 14 00:37:37 please Jun 14 00:38:03 np Jun 14 00:38:20 cool :) Jun 14 00:38:32 that said, I think some people have figured out tethering via wifi Jun 14 00:38:50 yah, saw that on the forums, but not as cool :) Jun 14 00:38:55 heh Jun 14 00:39:15 saw on the wiki the channel is logged - are the archives somewhere? is there a good way to catch up on the latest? Jun 14 00:39:38 been under the weather so haven't had a lot of time to poke around yet Jun 14 00:39:56 logs are at http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/ as per /topic :) Jun 14 00:40:27 ah, scrolls past my irssi terminal :) Jun 14 00:40:38 thx Jun 14 00:40:48 lhl: Legit discussion about webOS internals. Use #webos for application/sdk discussions. Public logs at http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/ - Palm monitors these. Honor all NDAs, licenses, carrier agreements and Palm code copyrights when speaking here. No discussion of tethering please. Otherwise please go to efnet/#webosdev. Wiki at http://predev.wikidot.com/ - Pastebin http://webos.pastebin.com/ Jun 14 00:40:51 ha, no worries :) Jun 14 00:41:29 ah, apologies about the initial inquiry Jun 14 00:41:43 no probs Jun 14 00:42:47 sometimes those topics are useful :) Jun 14 00:43:06 haha. Like I said, it's a bit of a grey area Jun 14 00:44:13 Which forums did people say they were ablt to get tethering to work via wifi? Jun 14 00:44:22 anyone dig much into the luna manager? is that the iventor java layer? Jun 14 00:44:53 IcedError: precentral? I think? I'm not sure Jun 14 00:45:00 having direct access to patch apps is great, but what would be even better would be a greasmonkey/jetpack equivalent for end users Jun 14 01:03:19 Do you think their is a maximum number of seconds i can set for the screenlock timer? its in seconds and i added up to 5 minutes. would like to add one more for 'Never" with a rediculous amount of time lol Jun 14 01:04:18 i want to add it to the wiki but i my account hasnt been approved"(Binarytechzone is the name if anyone can do it) Jun 14 01:09:20 lhl, what are you trying to do? Jun 14 01:09:25 Has anyone gotten anyone Java apps on the pre/ Jun 14 01:10:32 wasn't the "Hello World" done in java Jun 14 01:10:49 or did you mean anymore Jun 14 01:12:45 i thought it was javascript :P Jun 14 01:12:52 I think the smartest thing I did with my pre was give it a static ip on my home network. saves so much time not having to look up the IP :) Jun 14 01:15:24 kerey you gonna include that in the wiki? Jun 14 01:15:28 very interested Jun 14 01:15:40 LOL Jun 14 01:16:09 seriously? Like how to go into your wireless router and assign a static IP? Jun 14 01:16:11 wait i misreadthat lol Jun 14 01:16:19 sorry Jun 14 01:16:22 :) Jun 14 01:16:40 kaerey, a static ip or a dhcp reservataion? Jun 14 01:16:43 i seen static and got excited :p Jun 14 01:17:06 DHCP reservation I guess, but my qwest router calls it static Jun 14 01:17:25 'Assign Static IP' Jun 14 01:18:08 i have posted an alternate way of using /opt by resizing the store LV and creating an optmedia LV. Jun 14 01:18:16 How long is your dhcp reservations? My IP on my device hasn't changed once even without a reservation. Jun 14 01:18:26 http://predev.wikidot.com/alt-optmedia Jun 14 01:18:30 I mean leases, not reservations Jun 14 01:19:01 no clue probably 24 hours like most. But I just did it anyway Jun 14 01:19:02 Halcyonandoff2: check it out. Jun 14 01:19:19 no more dealing with loop0 with my method nor the new "bind" method. Jun 14 01:19:48 whats wrong with the new bind method? Jun 14 01:19:58 datafirm: nothing Jun 14 01:20:02 re Jun 14 01:20:03 khiraly11, hi Jun 14 01:20:12 they are both detailed on http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository and http://predev.wikidot.com/alt-optmedia Jun 14 01:20:22 yeah.. ive done all three! haha Jun 14 01:20:28 tictac: /media/internal should be recreated as vfat, not ext2 Jun 14 01:20:29 does SHR use FSO? Jun 14 01:20:33 Nothings wrong with it, but you only have 250MB for your palm apps and whatever you install with ipkg-opt. Using the resize method you get more space for ipkg-opt Jun 14 01:20:35 datafirm: nothing. i was working on this method before rwhitby decided to do it. Jun 14 01:20:41 Sargun: so Im wondering what hardware pieces are really closed source in palm pre Jun 14 01:20:43 Halcyonandoff2: err oops. typo Jun 14 01:20:48 Sargun: yepp Jun 14 01:20:57 i see. thanks! Jun 14 01:21:02 it's a trade-off between available space and robustness against palm updates Jun 14 01:21:10 Sargun: w00t, 2gb filesystem now Jun 14 01:21:13 khiraly11, does SHR use X? Jun 14 01:21:24 Sargun: yepp Jun 14 01:21:26 our defaults will be robust, and the alternate gives more space for those happy to reimage when palm does a lvm-modifying update Jun 14 01:21:34 Nice instructions Jun 14 01:21:52 khiraly11, haven't gotten X running Jun 14 01:22:11 Sargun: is the gsm model already out? or just the cdma? Jun 14 01:22:12 I gotta go to dinner (2 hours) Jun 14 01:22:18 but, these guys will help you ot Jun 14 01:22:59 Halcyonandoff2: fixed. thanks. Jun 14 01:23:02 text me: 925.202.9485 if you wanna Jun 14 01:23:17 lol Jun 14 01:24:18 Halcyonandoff2: i dont really forsee too many users using the method we have established, however it's nice there is another option. Jun 14 01:25:41 khiraly11: cdma sprint only Jun 14 01:26:22 is there somewhere a page, which describe exactly, what is lacking to have a working x11 and all the necessary hardware up and running Jun 14 01:26:24 ? Jun 14 01:26:29 nope Jun 14 01:26:57 khiraly11: I've already informed mickey about the progress here, and he's just waiting for a gsm release before he ports FSO :-) Jun 14 01:27:19 ok. so have you the backlogs then?;) Jun 14 01:27:29 yep, see the topic Jun 14 01:28:01 we don't know much about how to drive the display in conjunction with webos. Jun 14 01:28:13 khiraly11: i'm working on x stuff now Jun 14 01:28:15 if you want to blat it all and run debian, we have instructions for that - see the doom port Jun 14 01:28:17 rwhitby: I have some preliminary fso code for cdma, trying to clean that up for him Jun 14 01:28:22 through the debian chroot, though Jun 14 01:28:26 not directly Jun 14 01:29:01 has anybody straced luna? Jun 14 01:29:09 Sargun, tested my commandline? Jun 14 01:29:11 ooh, speaking of trace Jun 14 01:29:24 rwhitby: finding the update site is easy Jun 14 01:29:36 check for an update while running the trace Jun 14 01:29:41 ! Jun 14 01:29:41 if it's using the framebuffer similar to android emulator there should be some ioctl, geist I think said it was standard Jun 14 01:30:10 tmzt: we've got framebuffer working in the deb chroot, so i would think the method is similar Jun 14 01:30:28 x? are you serious? Jun 14 01:30:33 you already have debian running on the pre? Jun 14 01:30:37 but only without luna? Jun 14 01:31:08 geeze. i have debian running on everything here at home, however the pre will never run debian. Jun 14 01:33:36 what? Jun 14 01:33:52 s/the pre/my pre/ Jun 14 01:33:55 actually ubutnu cortex might be better for this cpu Jun 14 01:34:33 which arm is in there? Jun 14 01:34:43 i don't have a palm pre :8 Jun 14 01:35:01 i thought sargun got debian running through chroot? Jun 14 01:35:28 it wouldnt be hard to get running over chroot. Jun 14 01:35:31 actually i'm not sure what the hell he's doing Jun 14 01:35:56 oh Jun 14 01:36:00 but anyone can get debian running over chroot since it has a port for everything. Jun 14 01:36:33 mkdir /debian; cp /bin/init and a bunch of random devices /debian/ ; debootstrap ; done. Jun 14 01:36:42 err not init. doh. Jun 14 01:37:16 ShinAli: i've done it using his instructions, too Jun 14 01:37:24 actually i'm working on a 2gb filesystem now Jun 14 01:37:25 im not sure the actual point of doint it other than "just cause" Jun 14 01:37:40 nebula: just resize the LV and add a debian one like i did with opt. Jun 14 01:37:46 he did it to get prboom running Jun 14 01:37:55 nebula: copy over the necessary stuff, run debootstrap and enjoy. Jun 14 01:37:59 tictac: logical volume? Jun 14 01:37:59 using directfb Jun 14 01:38:19 nebula: you cant use logical volumes. its Linux Volume. Jun 14 01:38:24 ok Jun 14 01:38:32 nebula: the palm uses LVM to manage the "partitions" Jun 14 01:38:44 nice thanks Jun 14 01:38:56 where is his "instructions" posted? Jun 14 01:39:03 s/is/are/ Jun 14 01:39:06 wiki -> /debian Jun 14 01:39:36 i actually updated them once the img was provided Jun 14 01:39:44 awww he is doing it the easy way. lol Jun 14 01:39:45 there was a much more detailed set before Jun 14 01:39:53 yeah, that's the idea ;) Jun 14 01:39:56 no debootstrap needed. Jun 14 01:40:07 the first version did, look at the diffs Jun 14 01:41:42 ahh alright. id still use the debootstrap way for customization, but either way its just a debian environment run atop the existing linux os on the palm. Jun 14 01:42:30 * tictac wonders what the deciding factor of +v is Jun 14 01:44:04 tictac: we let people have them if their skill level is greater than anyone with a +v Jun 14 01:44:09 obviously i was the first Jun 14 01:44:14 and since chron came in... Jun 14 01:44:26 greetings all. i'm having an problem accessing my device using ssh. i've completed the steps to enable root access as well as enable the optware package feed. however, now after a couple of hours away from my PC (and a full erase on my pre), after entering my user/pass via putty the session just hangs Jun 14 01:44:44 tictac: but jk i'd ask rwhitby Jun 14 01:45:02 So I am trying to run the novaproxy.py script and I get a SyntaxError Jun 14 01:45:12 It is Windows compatable, no? Jun 14 01:45:23 IcedError: did you install the right version of python? Jun 14 01:45:23 novaproxy is asedeno_home's right? Jun 14 01:45:23 which version of python did you install? Jun 14 01:45:39 2.6 Jun 14 01:46:08 I had errors but only when I was using 3.0.1, so I dunno... Jun 14 01:46:17 tictac: check your invites Jun 14 01:46:22 windows vista? xp? Jun 14 01:46:27 Vista Jun 14 01:46:56 rwhitby: invites? Jun 14 01:46:58 does the talk.py script work for you? Jun 14 01:47:02 yes Jun 14 01:47:13 ahh. Jun 14 01:47:30 well I dunno then. novaproxy doesn't give me errors but I never really use it anyway Jun 14 01:47:58 I guess I can use talk and setup ssh, then I don't need either, right? Jun 14 01:48:03 are there any issues with running the scripts with x64? Jun 14 01:48:05 yes Jun 14 01:48:08 i always use novaproxy when i remote into my pre. Jun 14 01:48:13 don't know what talk is.... Jun 14 01:48:19 but yeah, I use those just til I get SSH up Jun 14 01:48:21 So, you don't ssh in? Jun 14 01:48:27 ssh is too slow over 1X RTT (i have no coverage in my apartment and use the airave) Jun 14 01:48:38 i wish i did though. :-/ Jun 14 01:48:42 yeah I bet it is. I use wifi Jun 14 01:49:10 im too lazy to configure my cisco AP (it's a real pita) and the Pre doesnt like ad-hoc wifi networks Jun 14 01:49:15 will puttin a password on root break stuff Jun 14 01:49:28 dunno - better to just add ssh keys Jun 14 01:49:29 whoiswhois: i wouldnt do it. i would just disable root login over ssh. Jun 14 01:49:45 how about the telnet port Jun 14 01:49:47 its still open Jun 14 01:49:58 only til you reboot Jun 14 01:49:59 only if you leave telnetd running Jun 14 01:50:17 oh Jun 14 01:50:26 so once i reboot, it will close? Jun 14 01:50:37 talk.py opens telnet Jun 14 01:50:48 it won't auto start Jun 14 01:51:15 bbiaf. i need caffeine. Jun 14 01:51:21 good, then i can disable root for ssh Jun 14 01:51:42 whoiswhois: i told you that already :) Jun 14 01:51:48 i know Jun 14 01:58:50 how are things tonight ? Jun 14 01:59:40 bpadalino: we've moved from loopback to /var/opt Jun 14 01:59:47 i see Jun 14 01:59:57 anyone figure out where it was being unmounted from ? Jun 14 02:00:09 with alternate be-prepared-to-use-doctor-when-palm-upgrades instructions for a separate LVM volume. Jun 14 02:00:29 ah cool Jun 14 02:00:59 we got some good confirmation on things from palm (as much as they are able to of course) Jun 14 02:01:25 link to the notes on confirmations ? Jun 14 02:01:29 what type of confirmations ? Jun 14 02:01:47 hmm, my password is to weak...thats weird since i used a random character generator to generate it Jun 14 02:02:07 it said that about mine too. Jun 14 02:02:14 all passwords are too weak Jun 14 02:02:31 that offends me deeply Jun 14 02:02:41 seriously Jun 14 02:03:05 no, im not that big of a nerd Jun 14 02:03:13 bpadalino: I said what I could in the channel here, and in the Rationale section on the optware page. Jun 14 02:03:20 ah ok Jun 14 02:03:23 no, wasn't a question... I'm saying... seriously Jun 14 02:03:38 the package maintainer needs to be considerate of the more sensitive types Jun 14 02:03:46 bpadalino Jun 14 02:03:49 larry Jun 14 02:03:53 been looking for you the last couple days Jun 14 02:03:57 oh sorry Jun 14 02:04:02 whats up ? Jun 14 02:04:05 the stickydialer hash Jun 14 02:04:09 yeah ? Jun 14 02:04:11 bpadalino: are you going to register your nick sometime? Jun 14 02:04:12 rawdr: haha Jun 14 02:04:18 my luck with it has been like...25% 75% Jun 14 02:04:28 have you had full luck with it? Jun 14 02:04:31 rwhitby, i am not sure - i've been on this network for about 2 years and still haven't Jun 14 02:04:39 LarrySteeze: i haven't been playing around with it at all actually :( Jun 14 02:04:51 aha Jun 14 02:04:57 Man, stupid merriam-webster. I wanted to change the universal search to search the iPhone site i.word.com but they do a useragent check so only iPhone can access it. Jun 14 02:05:18 ripper: nothing a binary sed on the webos browser won't fix ... Jun 14 02:05:23 and did you find those 3 hash codes you told me about in a different area of the code? I'm missing them Jun 14 02:06:32 hmm, never used sed before. Time for some googling. Jun 14 02:07:27 i am watching this now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXWg-bg9hB8 Jun 14 02:07:31 it's interesting Jun 14 02:07:49 what is it Jun 14 02:07:56 im too lazy to install flash Jun 14 02:08:16 Google IO 2009 Keynote with Palm in there Jun 14 02:08:17 about 10 minutes Jun 14 02:08:20 talked about html5 on the pre Jun 14 02:08:32 ahh Jun 14 02:09:28 oops Jun 14 02:09:34 i forgot to remount Jun 14 02:09:39 i hope that dont break anything Jun 14 02:10:31 * LarrySteeze is installing ipod touch version 3 on his pre Jun 14 02:10:40 err...on his ipod toiuch Jun 14 02:10:55 my phone isnt booting up :( Jun 14 02:11:09 no worries whoiswhois Jun 14 02:11:20 if you can't get it to boot up, you can use the webosdoctor :P Jun 14 02:11:31 the problem is finding a computer with windows on it Jun 14 02:11:36 ahh Jun 14 02:11:40 wine Jun 14 02:11:47 are you on linux? Jun 14 02:11:49 yea Jun 14 02:11:56 it should run in wine Jun 14 02:11:58 i need to write that usb driver Jun 14 02:12:05 so you can get a terminal in linux Jun 14 02:12:13 i think i figured out that part of the protocol Jun 14 02:12:13 agreed Jun 14 02:12:17 not that I can help Jun 14 02:12:20 heh Jun 14 02:12:23 great Jun 14 02:12:24 bpadalino: care to help me write a usb driver to access the phone as a modem? Jun 14 02:12:34 windows driver Jun 14 02:12:45 larrysteeze, you know - when i plug my phone in .. my windows VM says there's an ethernet device there Jun 14 02:12:46 got any references for writing usb drivers Jun 14 02:12:51 im gonna have to do it in a week or two Jun 14 02:12:54 whoiswhois, i am just using libusb :( Jun 14 02:12:54 really? Jun 14 02:13:09 hey, don't bash libusb Jun 14 02:13:10 i can't seem to get it Jun 14 02:13:12 it works lol Jun 14 02:13:16 LarrySteeze: yeah - i did 'usbnet enable' Jun 14 02:13:19 on the commandline Jun 14 02:13:20 and rebooted Jun 14 02:13:26 it puts my phone in 0101 mode i guess Jun 14 02:13:35 on the commandline on the phone? Jun 14 02:13:37 cyanidepoison: it does! Jun 14 02:13:38 yeah Jun 14 02:13:44 wat you guys use to sniff usb packets...i need a good app Jun 14 02:13:57 preferebly cmd line Jun 14 02:13:58 have you tested it for tethering? Jun 14 02:14:43 whoiswhois: google turns up plenty of results Jun 14 02:15:03 wats the query? Jun 14 02:15:05 larry, no i haven't Jun 14 02:15:09 ok i'm starting over now. will the method here http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository fix the issue with usb not working? is it updated? i see 2 diff methods Jun 14 02:15:24 hey guys, I am following the new directions for the ipkg-opt setup Jun 14 02:15:27 cyanidepoison: have you heard of lmgtfy? Jun 14 02:15:33 and I already have a /opt... Jun 14 02:15:35 yes. Jun 14 02:15:44 whoiswhois: usb sniffer Jun 14 02:15:46 is that from Palm or did we create that during the old dropbear install? Jun 14 02:15:46 my question would be the perfect time to use it :) Jun 14 02:15:56 giving people the opportunity Jun 14 02:16:22 should i follw the directions on the link i posted to fix usb issue? Jun 14 02:16:22 lmgtfy ? Jun 14 02:16:28 h2d2: its probably from anoehr method you used. Jun 14 02:16:42 bpadalino: let me google that for you Jun 14 02:16:46 yes please Jun 14 02:16:48 :) Jun 14 02:16:53 lol Jun 14 02:17:07 that's the acronym Jun 14 02:17:09 i get sucked into watching google io keynote videos Jun 14 02:17:10 :( Jun 14 02:17:16 its a great site for when people ask stupid questions that could easily be solved with google Jun 14 02:17:26 yeah those hour long videos from google on youtube are like crack Jun 14 02:17:43 I watched the one on MacFUSE that was from 2007 Jun 14 02:17:44 luckily these are 10 minute fixes Jun 14 02:17:51 it was fascinating Jun 14 02:18:02 ok, it contain blank DIRs... bin, sbin and etc Jun 14 02:18:11 i starred about 10 in my reader i need to watch Jun 14 02:18:14 I guess I can just rm then Jun 14 02:18:15 them Jun 14 02:19:16 java > objc for iphone development was one i wanted to watch .. Jun 14 02:19:28 google is amusing with their language translation software Jun 14 02:20:46 cyanide, you have linux, right ? Jun 14 02:21:51 BinaryMan: yes, the instructions should be correct now. Jun 14 02:22:10 do the /var/opt method unless you know all about lvm and are willing to do the doctor when palm do an ota upgrade Jun 14 02:22:57 h2d2: make sure it's not mounted from somewhere first Jun 14 02:23:14 I use Linux and OS X Jun 14 02:23:38 I've got an XP and a Linux VM On this Mac Jun 14 02:24:02 if i do method 2a on http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository will my USB work as well as wifi ssh? Jun 14 02:24:24 my fault scrolled up to reread lol thanks rw Jun 14 02:24:51 whoiswhois: won't work with wine, it needs a driver on windows Jun 14 02:25:04 no worrys Jun 14 02:25:08 it booted up after a few mins Jun 14 02:25:25 ah, i have been using VM's for this thing .. Jun 14 02:25:31 Hello Jun 14 02:25:43 hi JohnPro Jun 14 02:25:45 using windows to grab the usb packets that novacomd sends out Jun 14 02:25:47 hopefully updates don't mess with /etc/profile Jun 14 02:25:50 writing the app for linux Jun 14 02:26:02 danm Jun 14 02:26:03 What's up? Jun 14 02:26:15 i wish i had the skillz to do that Jun 14 02:26:27 use the force Jun 14 02:26:40 so does it send out character streams Jun 14 02:26:48 whoiswhois: I've been watching what some people do here, and it's amazing Jun 14 02:26:54 there's some ascii, and there's some binary .. Jun 14 02:27:08 there's a standard header it sends out .. Jun 14 02:27:14 then a rx/tx ID i think .. Jun 14 02:27:15 any control messages? Jun 14 02:27:17 then a command Jun 14 02:27:24 Stik: dropbear and openssh should add /opt/bin and /opt/sbin to the path automatically Jun 14 02:27:32 tmzt, part of the command .. it's just a polling scheme i believe Jun 14 02:27:53 hey nick thief.. i mean JohnPro Jun 14 02:28:17 everything should be open Jun 14 02:28:17 i think i figured 0 = announcing, 2 = idle, 3 = ascii string .. Jun 14 02:28:25 evanpro, take it easy Jun 14 02:28:32 i told you it was not on purpose Jun 14 02:28:44 lol i'm just messing with you. Jun 14 02:29:06 seriously, it doesn't bother me a tiny bit. Jun 14 02:29:16 awe man. Added some stuff to universal search and broke it. Jun 14 02:29:17 just having fun :) Jun 14 02:29:35 good stuff Jun 14 02:32:01 anyone tried sshing through evdo Jun 14 02:32:13 its soooooooooo slow Jun 14 02:32:14 lhl, cron is installed already. Jun 14 02:32:52 whoiswhois, yeah...it's not bad, but i'm old and have lived with some pretty horrendous latency in the past. Jun 14 02:33:28 dreadchicken: haaha Jun 14 02:34:11 i've also installed ez-ipupdate from optware and have it updating for me so my phone has a name. Jun 14 02:34:32 Too funny can reboot this thing... I have a new toy to play with :D Jun 14 02:35:00 pretty cool that we can have linux in a pocket. Jun 14 02:35:03 Stik, it's a linux box with lots of neat features, one of which is that it's portable and has a neat ui and happens to also be a phone. Jun 14 02:35:29 just need to have a webos console into phone itself Jun 14 02:35:42 well, my dreams have come true...i finally have linux in my pocket Jun 14 02:35:43 That would be sweet Jun 14 02:36:00 agreed, with dropbear already onboard i don't need a pssh (from treo land), just a console app. Jun 14 02:36:14 i need a ssh client app now Jun 14 02:36:18 ah yep Jun 14 02:36:27 dbclient in /opt/bin (dropbear client) Jun 14 02:36:30 whoiswhois: now you just need a yatch, right? Jun 14 02:36:33 it's already there. Jun 14 02:36:45 EvanPro: i do need a yatch Jun 14 02:36:50 whoiswhois: err.. ssh client, then a yatch. Jun 14 02:36:54 yea Jun 14 02:36:58 thats what i was thinking Jun 14 02:37:01 priorities. Jun 14 02:37:10 definetly Jun 14 02:37:12 dbclient == ssh client Jun 14 02:37:23 yea Jun 14 02:37:24 but Jun 14 02:37:27 sorry, I'm not familar with dropbear, but does it block login to root by default? Jun 14 02:37:29 i cant access that from the UI Jun 14 02:37:33 vandi, yes. Jun 14 02:37:43 thanks Jun 14 02:37:45 right, we'll need a terminal app. Jun 14 02:37:54 or that Jun 14 02:38:00 i'd be happy with either one Jun 14 02:38:11 oooh Jun 14 02:38:20 need an irssi that runs on a screen Jun 14 02:38:27 that notifies me when some says my name Jun 14 02:39:01 okay, why the hell would it switch to EVDO instead of wireless when on the touchstone? Jun 14 02:39:02 i think its doable Jun 14 02:39:10 I had to install nano cause I hate vi less I really need it Jun 14 02:39:13 WHAT Jun 14 02:39:21 you chose nano over vi? Jun 14 02:39:43 for simple css editing? yeapers Jun 14 02:39:56 i would die without vi Jun 14 02:40:11 Awww, a little poem :-) Jun 14 02:40:14 or i just wouldnt do anything Jun 14 02:40:32 lol Jun 14 02:40:33 i was a vi guy for a couple years, but then i fell back into the ide world. Jun 14 02:40:46 i cant use ide's anymore Jun 14 02:40:48 fyi, i'm working on a cron'ed status monitoring tool that reports via curl to things like battery, current (appears to be on/off charge), load, etc. i'm going to db my pre over time and see what i glean. Jun 14 02:40:54 I can't stop using vim. It's like an addiction. Jun 14 02:41:03 jblebrun: :) Jun 14 02:41:06 vim + mrxvt ftw Jun 14 02:41:16 ...I'm a nano guy myself... Jun 14 02:41:30 * EvanPro senses a civil war brewing Jun 14 02:41:49 All we need's an emacs person now Jun 14 02:41:56 lol yeah Jun 14 02:42:02 oh good gracious Jun 14 02:42:14 only a matter of time until someone has emacs on their Pre. Jun 14 02:42:21 * EvanPro inb4 emacs Jun 14 02:42:25 (just kidding) Jun 14 02:42:27 any one have an idea why my pre drops wifi when it sleeps? Jun 14 02:42:27 i was looking over some of the code on the pre, and i see that all databases are sqlite3, so if you wanted to write an app that uses some linux tool you could just run a cron job that inserts the info into the database Jun 14 02:43:02 unfortunatly, i stlil dont see how we can access sockets which really sucks Jun 14 02:43:05 vandi, i've had differing results. sometimes plugged in it stay up, sometimes not. Jun 14 02:43:33 rather annoying. Jun 14 02:43:46 so i've gone to using 3min timeout in Screen Settings or some such and keeping it plugged in when i want to work ON it. Jun 14 02:44:01 when i try to su i get su: must be suid to work properly ? Jun 14 02:44:34 i think it's something odd like it stays on if the battery isn't full when you first plug it in...but i haven't spent the time to properly track it down. Jun 14 02:44:34 m Jun 14 02:45:12 whoiswhois: might have to wait for flash in december/jan for mojo-level socket stuff. Jun 14 02:45:23 but it will definately go to sleep while plugged in some instances, which is a pita. Jun 14 02:45:59 woo Jun 14 02:46:15 i hope they build it into mojo Jun 14 02:46:18 i dont see why they wouldnt Jun 14 02:46:39 hey everyone.. based on whats known so far -- would there be a way to get proxy support for wi-fi added in somehow? Jun 14 02:47:05 vandi: turning off wifi during sleep saves battery life Jun 14 02:47:26 whats luna-send do Jun 14 02:47:33 wait Jun 14 02:47:33 nvm Jun 14 02:47:38 its on the wiki Jun 14 02:47:53 whoiswhois: i hope they do too. would make data pushing much easier... only thing is... it introduces some interesting issues when it does evdo to wifi jumps and stuff... trying to keep the socket connection open.. Jun 14 02:47:54 hrm, and evdo is any better? Jun 14 02:47:58 it might be nice to know how to avoid sleep altogether, probably fairly obvious in /sys. Jun 14 02:48:19 vandi, evdo available even when it's asleep...hence my dyn dns'ing it. Jun 14 02:48:53 yeah, while sshed in on wifi doesn't work too well when it sleeps Jun 14 02:48:55 as bad as it is wrt latency, at least it doesn't drop every couple of minutes. Jun 14 02:49:15 EvanPro: they could leave that to the developer i guess...it would actually force us to check those error codes that nobody ever bothers with Jun 14 02:50:00 whoiswhois: haha yeah.. good point. Jun 14 02:50:11 had to change the background on my keypad.. that green sucked... Jun 14 02:50:46 whoiswhois: my main concern would be trying to carry across authenticated sessions when the socket connection "jumps"... if you're going for any kind of decent security. Jun 14 02:51:03 @Stik how did you do that? Jun 14 02:51:25 get your universal search fixed yet? Jun 14 02:52:35 nope, still working on it, backtracking step by step to figure out what I did wrong Jun 14 02:53:28 anyone have an idea why putty won't connect to the pre? Encryption issue? Jun 14 02:53:40 firewall? Jun 14 02:53:45 Telnet or SSH? Jun 14 02:53:55 I use putty on it all the time Jun 14 02:53:55 I can get to it from my unix box. Jun 14 02:54:17 putty on unix? /confused Jun 14 02:54:22 backed up com.palm.app.phone/images/backdrop-phone.png and copied another background image over in it's name and rebooted :P Jun 14 02:54:27 putty on my laptop Jun 14 02:54:32 windows laptop Jun 14 02:54:55 right now putty to unix server an then ssh to pre Jun 14 02:54:59 i've used putty on laptops, putty on desktops, putty on xp, vista and win7 and i've had no problems connecting to my pre Jun 14 02:55:03 be nice it I could go directly. Jun 14 02:55:07 wierd Jun 14 02:55:10 oh, I misread can for can't. Is putty throwing an error or just timing out? Jun 14 02:55:10 short between your chair and keyboard ;0 Jun 14 02:55:31 Timing out. Jun 14 02:55:34 im using putty to connect to my pre Jun 14 02:55:41 psykoz, yeah, sometimes I wonder about that. Jun 14 02:55:43 Can you ping your pre from your win box? Jun 14 02:55:56 no. Jun 14 02:56:02 (they have putty for linux and unix also) Jun 14 02:56:15 they... do? Jun 14 02:56:18 yeah. I use it Jun 14 02:56:22 huh... I can ping it from my unix... Jun 14 02:56:27 it's in ubuntu's repositories Jun 14 02:56:28 speaking of pinging the pre, what kind of ping times are you seeing? Jun 14 02:56:30 ah.. okay.. well, nice to know it's a network. Jun 14 02:56:36 100+ ms Jun 14 02:56:43 problem is the right click menu from the title bar doesn't work Jun 14 02:56:57 Has anyone written any useful homebrew apps yet? Jun 14 02:57:13 i'm getting pretty poor ping times too, anyone have an idea why? Jun 14 02:57:37 dreadchicken: emacs22 is installable from optware Jun 14 02:57:37 might be wifi. Jun 14 02:57:56 106 packets transmitted, 105 received, 0% packet loss, time 105136ms Jun 14 02:57:56 rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 6.192/203.100/1482.266/200.592 ms, pipe 3 Jun 14 02:58:13 dreadchicken: if I had a pre it would have emacs on it right now Jun 14 02:58:30 I haven't used emacs in 15 years :) Jun 14 02:58:44 it's gotta be the pre's wifi, because i can ping everything else on the network in around 10ms Jun 14 02:59:08 I use emacs, vi, notepad++, eclipse, etc, etc. they are all just tools. but like windows, linux, macos - all just means to an end, not an end in themselves. Jun 14 02:59:10 I tried to learn emacs, I should start using it again. It was pretty cool when I started to get the hang of it. Jun 14 02:59:50 but I had to install nano on my pre cause I'm a noob **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jun 14 02:59:57 2009