**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 16 02:59:57 2009 Jun 16 02:59:57 sweet... everfine@castle:~$ thanks. will i need to run that ssh script each time i want to SSH or will it auto? Jun 16 03:00:40 everfine: that file in /etc/event.d will start it each time the phone boots, and respawn it if it crashes Jun 16 03:01:02 you're all set now Jun 16 03:01:02 great. i need to learn this stuff. Jun 16 03:01:27 and with that, I will go have a cigarette on my porch :-} Jun 16 03:02:00 so does developer mode slow the device in people's experience? Jun 16 03:02:53 hey if it wont let me cp a file in ssh do i need to su cp or sudo cp or something else? Jun 16 03:02:57 Permission denied Jun 16 03:03:32 everfine: your user doesn't have permission to make many changes... to do that, you will need to su or use sudo Jun 16 03:04:09 gaffo: there's no real need to leave dev mode on after installing ssh and creating a user Jun 16 03:04:28 just unhide it, per the wiki, so it's easier to get back into Jun 16 03:04:29 sudo worked Jun 16 03:04:35 I think I found the graphics library for webOS Jun 16 03:05:44 JackieRipper, wasn't an answer :). I'm not able to root it at the moment because I don't have windows, just linux. have to do it at work. Jun 16 03:07:50 howdy Jun 16 03:07:52 ShinAli: yes? Jun 16 03:07:56 gaffo: I didn't really notice a difference, but then, I had it in dev mode for 15 minutes Jun 16 03:07:58 I've been wondering about this Jun 16 03:07:58 I'm having some problems rooting my palm Jun 16 03:08:07 how one writes graphical browser plugins Jun 16 03:08:18 image editing i love so much Jun 16 03:08:34 all I see the graphical plugins link against is libjpeg and libpng Jun 16 03:08:40 JackieRipper, thanks. I've had it on for about 3 days, I'm noticing odd things like it told me it couldn't open another card when it was just sitting there (out of memory). or it's out of memory with just email open. Jun 16 03:09:08 i think its libPiranha.so Jun 16 03:09:08 nm... just realized I forgot to install the driver :P Jun 16 03:10:07 hmm... ok, now I have a different problem: "ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: ''" Jun 16 03:10:51 I have all my firewall's and everything turned off Jun 16 03:11:53 nevermind, libPiranha is a vector graphics library Jun 16 03:13:07 well its a palm developed library for sure though.... Jun 16 03:15:41 ShinAli: all the plugins seems to have or depend on a PrvNPP_SetWindow, PrvNPP_Destroy, PrvPaint, PrvNPP_HandleEvent and PrvNPP_SetValue Jun 16 03:15:50 but don't seem to find those strings anywhere else Jun 16 03:16:11 those are Netscape plugin stuff Jun 16 03:16:28 hmm Jun 16 03:16:29 right Jun 16 03:16:33 those are the functions one has to provide Jun 16 03:16:43 yes Jun 16 03:16:51 for some reason I think they just output a png Jun 16 03:17:26 there are directfb libraries but i thought one of the palm people said they don't use directfb Jun 16 03:17:35 I think luna uses it Jun 16 03:18:47 maybe its a problem that I'm using the x64 installer for the driver instead of the x86 one? Jun 16 03:19:02 what program do i need to convert images into icons? Jun 16 03:19:04 does the rooter need to be run on x86? Jun 16 03:20:29 ShinAli: libPmMediaGstVideoSinkLib.so links against libOMX_Core.so Jun 16 03:20:49 anyone figure out how to stop Pandora from putting up that lagging notification bar at the bottom? Jun 16 03:20:51 hmm Jun 16 03:20:57 just accelerated routines it seems Jun 16 03:22:39 anyone how to upload the images for the global search addons? Jun 16 03:22:46 hey guys, how does the Pre handle facebook sync? Jun 16 03:22:51 do i need to install ipkg and then an ftp or scp program? Jun 16 03:23:22 PhrkOnLsh, it handles it very well. Pulls in all your facebook contacts into your phone. Jun 16 03:23:29 hey, the wiki page for the Phone dialer background also mentions the lock screen in the title. I figure someone might want to put the location in there for that image. /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone/images/backdrop-firstuse.png Jun 16 03:23:30 goatslacker: yes, but HOW? Jun 16 03:23:38 automatically? Jun 16 03:23:40 Is there any way to add discussion of a page on wikidot like there is on mediawiki? Jun 16 03:24:00 goatslacker: HOW? What does it use? Facebook has never really been a fan of that, and there are no official apis Jun 16 03:24:02 it shows the facebook friend's default picture and their fullname Jun 16 03:24:17 ohhh, technically, i'm not sure :P Jun 16 03:24:23 goatslacker: thanks :3 Jun 16 03:24:29 hehe Jun 16 03:24:30 i'm sure it uses the facebook api. Jun 16 03:24:35 * PhrkOnLsh goes to poking source Jun 16 03:24:36 it pulls what i can pull Jun 16 03:24:36 anyone see the ren and stimpy reference in the qdlogger file? Jun 16 03:24:43 * better than bad, it's good. everyone wants a log. Jun 16 03:24:47 goatslacker: using -what?- Jun 16 03:24:52 facebook connect Jun 16 03:24:58 in /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone/app/models/QDLogger.js Jun 16 03:25:01 i'm pretty sure that's it. since fbconnect is JS Jun 16 03:25:21 and the phone has access to everything i would have access to on a website Jun 16 03:25:25 -.- how did I miss that? Jun 16 03:25:39 ohwow Jun 16 03:25:51 i want to make icons for my pre but the image icon converter i found makes icons for windows. what format are icons on the pre Jun 16 03:25:52 like you can't pull the user's email address, but you can grab birthdate, phone numbers, etc... Jun 16 03:26:21 so has anyone done a hello world app? Jun 16 03:26:36 I'm trying to copy the the calculator app and make a hello world out of it Jun 16 03:26:37 analog1: png Jun 16 03:26:48 easy enough Jun 16 03:26:48 hemna, overwrite the nascar app! :P Jun 16 03:27:03 unless youre a nascar fan and really good at math Jun 16 03:27:18 is it sufficient to just copy the com.foo.hello dir into /var/usr/palm/applications ? Jun 16 03:27:44 so is it hard to change the graphics on the phone then? Jun 16 03:27:45 or is there some kind of registry crap I have to edit to make the UI recognize there is a new app installer? Jun 16 03:27:49 i would enjoy makings skins Jun 16 03:27:53 ShinAli: I think you were right about libpirahna Jun 16 03:27:59 I'm sorry, I hate to be that guy, but I'm really lost on this rooting kit, and its not that I'm technologically impaired... Jun 16 03:28:15 I keep getting "ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: ''" Jun 16 03:28:17 the root guide is vague Jun 16 03:28:28 spotter: no, i wasn't, its just vector drawing Jun 16 03:28:30 goatslacker, yah I can't comprehend the fascination with nascar myself Jun 16 03:28:33 has anyone gotten this to work in x64 windows? Jun 16 03:28:38 for vector graphics and stuff in the browser Jun 16 03:28:53 twobitsprite: I've done it in vistax64 Jun 16 03:28:55 analog1: no, it's fairly clear, it just doesn't offer any troubleshooting Jun 16 03:28:55 i just took a first look at the mojo mvc Jun 16 03:28:57 i like! Jun 16 03:29:02 ShinAli: ZN8PLinuxFb10SetDisplayE8PDisplayj7PFormatj Jun 16 03:29:08 function it it Jun 16 03:29:12 it's refreshing to see code. Jun 16 03:29:12 ripper: did you use the x64 driver installer? or the x86 one like the wiki says? Jun 16 03:29:20 x64 Jun 16 03:29:22 is there anyway to download all the images from the phone to the computer? Jun 16 03:29:36 did it do anything for you other than the progress bar and then disappear? Jun 16 03:29:37 ripper i just tried earlier in x64 to no avail Jun 16 03:29:37 spotter: looks like its calling the Linux framebuffer Jun 16 03:29:38 i think i can tackle rooting my pre but once i'm in i wouldn't know what to do Jun 16 03:29:42 yes Jun 16 03:29:48 hence why I think you are onto something Jun 16 03:29:49 i just now finished installed xp on a virtualbox setup Jun 16 03:29:50 analog1: install winscp Jun 16 03:29:52 Elysian: what problem did you have? Jun 16 03:29:52 might be how luna draw Jun 16 03:29:53 draws Jun 16 03:29:54 so what's it take to stream hulu? Jun 16 03:29:56 so i'm hoping i can get it to work Jun 16 03:30:06 draws the vector stuff, maybe Jun 16 03:30:09 _ZN8PLinuxFb4FlipEbPK5PRect could be for rotating Jun 16 03:30:14 let me try my x86 laptop Jun 16 03:30:16 i got the problem where running talk.py says the device actively refused the connection Jun 16 03:30:20 ShinAli: many modern graphics cards dont have 2d engine Jun 16 03:30:25 but grepping for LinuxFb would lead to something i think Jun 16 03:30:25 they just do everything via the 3d engine Jun 16 03:30:30 Elysian: I got a different error Jun 16 03:30:30 firewall is off on router and on windows Jun 16 03:30:45 technically it should work, i've followed the instructions to the T Jun 16 03:30:52 ShinAli: it also links against libfreetype Jun 16 03:31:01 which to me doesn't seem like something a pure vector graphics library would do Jun 16 03:31:01 Elysian: don't turn your router firewall off, unnecessary and dangerous. Jun 16 03:31:13 no its not ripper, my router is behind another router Jun 16 03:31:30 i have a router in this room so i can hook up my pc, my 360, and have good wifi for my phone Jun 16 03:31:31 hmm maybe Jun 16 03:31:42 oh, nm then. I just thought somebody got carried away when they saw turn off the firewall. Jun 16 03:31:47 LinuxFb is only used in piranha Jun 16 03:32:03 twobitsprite, do you have the novacom device showing up in the device manager? Jun 16 03:32:17 let me check Jun 16 03:32:19 hrmm ok, just copying my app dir into /var/usr/palm/applications doesn't make the app show in the launcher Jun 16 03:32:27 ShinAli: I'm just doing this all with strings and grep, don't have a pre Jun 16 03:32:27 i've got palm pre and palm novacom modules in my device manager Jun 16 03:32:29 must be some registry to make the launcher see it? Jun 16 03:32:30 ldd would be more useful :) Jun 16 03:32:33 no yellow !'s or anything Jun 16 03:32:44 but the piranha.control file in ipkg/info says "Piranha Vector Graphics Library" as the description Jun 16 03:32:54 mmm i love virtualbox Jun 16 03:32:57 hemna: did you change the app id in appinfo.json ? Jun 16 03:33:05 ripper: it has the yellow question mark next to "novacom linux" Jun 16 03:33:07 i'll look into it more i guess Jun 16 03:33:16 jblebrun, yes Jun 16 03:33:25 com.hemna.hello Jun 16 03:33:27 you don't have the novacom driver installed then Jun 16 03:33:29 my palm is pimped out now, ty everfine and the whole community! Jun 16 03:33:35 I installed it twice Jun 16 03:33:41 K, right click on it and try reinstalling the drivers. They should auto-install if you ran the x64 MSI. Jun 16 03:33:41 basically just renamed all the Calculator references to Hello Jun 16 03:33:48 i'm getting a bad address ipkg.nslu2-linux.org any suggesions? Jun 16 03:33:48 I just get an empty window with a progress bar... it finishes and closes Jun 16 03:33:52 have you unplugged the phone and plugged it back in to make sure the driver takes? Jun 16 03:34:01 several times Jun 16 03:34:08 ShinAli: it could very well just be that the luna just writes raw images to the fb Jun 16 03:34:12 each time I get "found new hardware" Jun 16 03:34:14 Yeah, that's all the MSI does. It's best to install the driver with the device unplugged then plug in the phone afterwords. Jun 16 03:34:31 Are you on Vista? Jun 16 03:34:37 k, I'll try that, but the wiki says to plug it in first Jun 16 03:34:38 weird it might be piranha Jun 16 03:34:39 no, XP 64 Jun 16 03:34:44 mine is in there as "Palm Novacom" under the "Palm Novacom Modules" Jun 16 03:34:48 ugh xp x64 Jun 16 03:34:51 barf Jun 16 03:34:52 wtf Jun 16 03:34:58 yeah Jun 16 03:35:02 Oh, never tried that. I'm not sure if that'll work or not, I know the drivers don't install in win 7. Jun 16 03:35:15 maybe I'll just try on my gf's laptop Jun 16 03:35:16 I like to pretend there was no 64 bit xp. Jun 16 03:35:19 its in BrowserServer, extractfs (wtf?), LunaSysMgr, LunaSysService, BrowserAdapter, lunaWebkit Jun 16 03:35:21 that's xp x86 Jun 16 03:35:23 lol me too Jun 16 03:35:31 wtf is extractfs again? Jun 16 03:35:33 i'm running vista x64 though... Jun 16 03:36:02 Oh, I think I also got errors if I left up the screen asking which usb mode to put it in. It didn't work until I checked "just charge". Don't know if that might be the case with you or not Elysian. Jun 16 03:36:15 i clicked just charge Jun 16 03:36:16 no luck Jun 16 03:36:22 maybe i should try usb device Jun 16 03:36:52 I believe usb device shuts down all the needed services. I could be wrong though Jun 16 03:37:09 oh yeah, it shuts down wifi Jun 16 03:37:10 crap Jun 16 03:37:32 Oh, are you trying to run talk.py over wifi? Jun 16 03:37:59 no, i'm hooked through usb, but you do have to have wifi up to telnet correct Jun 16 03:38:05 even in usb mode though i got the same error Jun 16 03:38:21 "Palm embedded file extractor" Jun 16 03:38:38 thought this rooting stuff don't work with x64 systems Jun 16 03:38:38 Yeah, the only time I got the actively refused the connection error was when I forgot to put it into developer mode. So I'm out of ideas. Jun 16 03:38:48 yeah its in developer mode Jun 16 03:38:52 i even double checked Jun 16 03:38:55 Stik, it does in vista x64 Jun 16 03:39:05 oh Jun 16 03:39:17 I used 32bit vista in vm Jun 16 03:39:22 well, time to try it in xp in vm Jun 16 03:40:27 So, has anyone been able to make a hello world app that runs shell commands? I'd really like to take a stab at making a sort of "tweak-ui" gui that manages some of the customizations on the wiki. Jun 16 03:41:39 extractfs is used in a LOT of javascript apps Jun 16 03:42:02 what is it Jun 16 03:42:03 looks like a way to grab images from the file system within JS? Jun 16 03:42:10 well grab files Jun 16 03:42:10 I'm still trying to find the exact sql command to check if there are unread text messages Jun 16 03:42:28 the description in the ipkg control file says its a "Palm embedded file extractor" Jun 16 03:43:05 JackieRipper, installed vim. Thanks a bunch Jun 16 03:43:11 and a script sets up a mount point to /var/luna/data/extractfs Jun 16 03:44:12 ripper: I'd just be happy with a terminal :) Jun 16 03:45:47 there is a vim package? Jun 16 03:45:52 ipkg didn't see it Jun 16 03:46:25 I'm still trying to get a hello world app to show in the launcher Jun 16 03:46:28 restarting the pre Jun 16 03:49:40 There's a vim package in ipkg-opt Jun 16 03:49:40 restart did it. my hello world calculator copy showed up Jun 16 03:50:01 hemna: You dont' have to do a full reboot. You can just killall LunaSysMgr (it will restart automatically) Jun 16 03:50:06 hemna? you gotta hello world app that installs on reboot? Jun 16 03:50:07 Its a little bit faster Jun 16 03:50:15 strangely enough, vim behaves like vi Jun 16 03:50:17 no arrow keys Jun 16 03:50:18 jblebrun, ah nice thank you Jun 16 03:50:27 hey is this the palm pre chat? Jun 16 03:50:33 i got it ripper Jun 16 03:50:38 in a xp VM Jun 16 03:50:53 joesmith: sort of Jun 16 03:50:56 whats a palm pre? Jun 16 03:51:15 Elysian: are you serious? Jun 16 03:51:30 its in reply to joesmith Jun 16 03:51:33 isnt this the irc from the wiki dev Jun 16 03:51:47 woo i'm rooted Jun 16 03:51:55 joesmith: no you were thinking about webos-EXternals Jun 16 03:52:00 Elysian, congrats Jun 16 03:52:03 LOL Jun 16 03:52:10 webos-internals is for groupies Jun 16 03:52:17 damn you vista x64 Jun 16 03:52:26 I'm having a bit of trouble with the rooting process, I'm trying on a windows 7 xp VM and I can't get talk.py to work Jun 16 03:52:36 joesmith: Everyone's loopy because they haven't slept since they got root on the pre. Jun 16 03:53:02 i swear this channel goes up by 10-20 every day Jun 16 03:53:03 i'm loopy because this is the worst day of my life, but thats another drama Jun 16 03:53:08 any advice? I just keep getting the int error Jun 16 03:53:11 any chance on removing the launcher key from the quick launch toolbar thingy Jun 16 03:53:37 Bales: wouldn't surprise me, major gadget blogs tend to keep posting stuff that happens here :) Jun 16 03:53:40 wikiman Jun 16 03:53:44 emkman: we thought you died Jun 16 03:53:45 or any apps that come with the key Jun 16 03:53:46 Elysian how did you get it to work on your vista 64? Jun 16 03:53:48 haha Jun 16 03:53:54 joesmith, I tried long and hard and gave up on that one Jun 16 03:53:55 busy weekend Jun 16 03:53:57 pre* Jun 16 03:54:01 i know you all missed me Jun 16 03:54:04 haha! I got it... yeah, I think the problem was x64 windows Jun 16 03:54:17 how has everything been? I have been watching the wiki progress, looks good Jun 16 03:54:27 mib i had to install an xp virtual machine, i used virtualbox, which is free Jun 16 03:54:34 it's not where any of the other launcher icons are. I searched the contents of the OS for it and the only thing that consistantly showed up was a binary file, so that launcher icon seems to be hard coded into a luna binary. Jun 16 03:54:46 i'm trying to invertigate on how webOS draws its fancy things Jun 16 03:54:57 crayons Jun 16 03:54:57 s/invertigate/investigate Jun 16 03:55:06 ShinAli, thats great, I have been really curious about the windowing system and graphics layer Jun 16 03:55:10 yea I installed an xp virtual machine but it still keeps giving me the int error Jun 16 03:55:30 you have windows firewall off and your phone is in developer mode? Jun 16 03:55:35 Okay, so I know there was a lot of discussion about it a while ago, but has there ever been a conclusion on whether or not this group will be willing to host patch files with context lines? Jun 16 03:55:38 ok... so, is there a way to stop the pre from turning off while I'm telnetted in to it? Jun 16 03:55:40 so far i found something called libPiranha, but the ipkg control says its just a vector graphics library Jun 16 03:55:42 and the novacom drivers installed correctly, verified in device manager? Jun 16 03:55:54 but then its linked to luna webkit, sys manager, etc Jun 16 03:56:00 someone is lying Jun 16 03:56:08 ShinAli: invertigating sounds more fun Jun 16 03:56:09 yes, though for some reason in security center it still says firewall is on, but when I go to turn it off, it says it's off Jun 16 03:56:22 interesting Jun 16 03:56:36 firewall settings say it's off, but security center says it's on Jun 16 03:56:44 I find that very odd Jun 16 03:56:48 not to mention piranha directly calls the linux framebuffer Jun 16 03:56:49 twobitsprite, put it on a charger and it shouldn't sleep. Though I hear it might sleep anyway if battery is < 50% Jun 16 03:56:53 and I'm sure it has something to do with it Jun 16 03:57:23 so where is the the chat channel on the downlow about you know what Jun 16 03:57:25 Errr... what's wrong about a vector graphics library calling the framebuffer? Jun 16 03:57:25 k, thanks Jun 16 03:57:27 ripper, i think fair use suggests as long as the extra code is for context you are okay. so creating a context diff with nothing but a ^ COPY THAT would be bad =p Jun 16 03:57:36 my battery is < 50%, so we'll see Jun 16 03:57:50 do you have a 3rd party firewall mib? Jun 16 03:58:08 joesmith, many of us are to busy exploring to exploit. Jun 16 03:58:15 nope Jun 16 03:58:15 dreadchicken/ripper, is there a diff format that uses line numbers or some other context without including the actual copyrighted code? Jun 16 03:58:24 that is odd Jun 16 03:58:38 ok ty Jun 16 03:58:45 at first I was getting the other error, so I'm guessing this is a little closer to progress, but still not there Jun 16 03:59:16 in the webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar package that came out, can we get to the /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone/images/ folder? Jun 16 03:59:32 weird, my pre just randomly popped up with Updating PRL on it's own Jun 16 03:59:44 emkman, bare does...right? it's been a long time since i used anything but context or unified. Jun 16 04:00:06 so question, now that i've rooted this phone, do i have to run talk.py every time to login, or can i telnet in any time its on the wireless network? Jun 16 04:00:46 I hate to be a nag, but is there any way to delete/move the launcher button on the phone Jun 16 04:01:08 dreadchicken, I am not familiar with the less common formats, thats why i asked. googling now Jun 16 04:01:13 how would you launch it? besides flicking up? Jun 16 04:01:14 spotter: you know how to find out which functions does an object use from a lib? Jun 16 04:01:23 just flicking up Jun 16 04:01:35 :\ Jun 16 04:01:45 for more space Jun 16 04:02:02 and to stop people from launching apps Jun 16 04:02:03 or make the launcher have multiple rows Jun 16 04:02:11 unless they know how Jun 16 04:02:21 yeah that sounds fun Jun 16 04:02:24 ShinAli: what do you mean? Jun 16 04:02:26 panel* Jun 16 04:02:29 whois ultrablack Jun 16 04:02:29 multi rows Jun 16 04:02:41 what libraries resolve which symbols? Jun 16 04:02:59 yes? Jun 16 04:03:23 i mean a lib is a bunch of functions, so whoever links to it might be using its functions Jun 16 04:03:29 how do i copy the whole /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone/images/ Jun 16 04:03:29 folder to /media/internal via terminal Jun 16 04:03:39 So I had a really interesting/slightly concerning experience today. I was in the middle of a meeting and my phone starts playing music. Its not one of my ringtones. I turn on the screen and unlock the phone and see that Pandora has started completely by itself. The Pre was on the table, not in my pocket or anything like that. Jun 16 04:03:45 Anyone have anything similar happen? Jun 16 04:03:50 is there a bash command for cp'ing whole folders? Jun 16 04:04:00 cp -r Jun 16 04:04:25 cp -r /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone/images /media/internal? Jun 16 04:04:26 emkman, i'm leaning heavily towards unified/context diffs being acceptable as long as they are used for that, context. ianal. Jun 16 04:04:28 emkan: Please tell me the battery was still in, at least ;-) Jun 16 04:04:45 wait, cp will do it, just make sure the destination is a folder or has a trailing / Jun 16 04:04:45 what's the difference between dropbear and openssh? Jun 16 04:04:47 haha, battery was charged jblerun Jun 16 04:04:55 other wise it dumps the contents into a single file Jun 16 04:05:01 that would be some serious touchstone action Jun 16 04:05:08 google man cp Jun 16 04:05:11 Tesla would be proud. Jun 16 04:05:17 indeed Jun 16 04:05:24 MyNameIsJon: but it wont copy everything to the folder, but the folder and its contents Jun 16 04:05:26 ? Jun 16 04:05:27 Pandora wasnt even open in a background card tho Jun 16 04:05:29 so its pretty odd Jun 16 04:05:35 wzs it at least a good song, maybe from a recent channel? Jun 16 04:05:45 Yeah... that is a bit odd. Jun 16 04:05:49 or was it completely random? Jun 16 04:05:51 That's not happened to me. Jun 16 04:05:57 I'm off to bed, 'night all Jun 16 04:05:57 haha yeh it was good song, all my music on Pandora is good, but it was innapropriate at the time Jun 16 04:06:00 everfine: google man cp (1) Jun 16 04:06:05 ha Jun 16 04:06:08 xandrake_: you still around? Jun 16 04:06:14 and also try cp --help Jun 16 04:06:28 spotter: did you get what i mean? Jun 16 04:06:28 just seems odd that random processes are starting Jun 16 04:06:37 everfine: well most commands --help works, too Jun 16 04:06:39 i wonder if there is any log I could check for more info Jun 16 04:06:50 and if it is a common shell command, just google for the man page Jun 16 04:06:57 yes Jun 16 04:07:00 just distracted Jun 16 04:07:02 ive seen mojo log functions thru out apps Jun 16 04:07:04 emkman: Did you check /var/log/messages ? Jun 16 04:07:11 MyNameIsJon: ok thanks. so dont add the / on the end Jun 16 04:07:11 not yet Jun 16 04:07:19 I believe nm can lits an demangle what functions belong to a lib Jun 16 04:07:20 ah ok Jun 16 04:07:25 will check now Jun 16 04:07:45 everfine: if you don't add the /, the source gets copied to one file (unless the destination already exists as directory) Jun 16 04:07:52 for instance on my laptop Jun 16 04:08:00 nm -D libxvidcore.so.4.1 Jun 16 04:08:02 any idea where console.log() messages go? Jun 16 04:08:11 gives things like Jun 16 04:08:13 U strerror Jun 16 04:08:21 and 0006e630 T xvid_plugin_single Jun 16 04:08:30 the former is an external symbole that has to be resolved Jun 16 04:08:33 emkman, dreadchicken, I believe diff can reference line numbers, but these are not always reliable, specifically if applying multiple customizations. Also since there is absolutely no way that someone could reconstruct the original code to a state that it would actually do something using only the context lines I fail to see how it is an issue. It is the same as quoting passages and excerpts from a book, which is fair use. Jun 16 04:08:33 I am mainly asking because I would like to make the customizations easier, but I want to be sure I will be able to put it up on the predev wiki if I spend the time to do so. Jun 16 04:08:34 the later is an internal symbol Jun 16 04:08:48 everfine: ie cp /dir/source /dest/ (if you want to make a new folder called /dest) or just /dest if you want a file called dest with the contents of /dir/source but you'll prbly want a -r in there Jun 16 04:09:08 I'm using sftp and openssh, looks like I only download files from my pre not upload. How can I fix this? Jun 16 04:09:25 WDS-Scott, scp works Jun 16 04:09:26 you should be able to fine a "linux" command primer. you're really looking for a unix command primer, but so much stuff exists for linux Jun 16 04:09:27 both ways Jun 16 04:09:40 ripper, IANAL but I agree Jun 16 04:09:50 there's an arm-none-linux-gnue-nm Jun 16 04:09:53 spotter: so nm displays function names for the object? Jun 16 04:10:05 it displays all the exported symbols Jun 16 04:10:15 sorry, gnueabi Jun 16 04:10:16 i.e. what it needs from others and what it provides to others Jun 16 04:10:22 worked like a charm Jun 16 04:10:33 i think context are the way to go until we hear otherwise. as someone pointed out, there is lack of damage and reproduction of a sample part is typically considered fair use. Jun 16 04:10:36 if its not exported or needed to be resolved, it doesn't have to be listed Jun 16 04:11:06 spotter: ah, so how do i differentiate between the two? Jun 16 04:11:12 one quick google search, not that the internet is an authoritive legal source: District Court holds that fair use allows copying of computer source code to extract embedded data for the purpose of improving Jun 16 04:11:18 I showed you Jun 16 04:11:20 http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/packets002733.shtml Jun 16 04:11:23 U vsprintf Jun 16 04:11:23 00018d90 T xvid_decore Jun 16 04:11:29 oh okay Jun 16 04:11:32 vsprintf is external (provided by libc) needs to be resolved Jun 16 04:11:41 yeah i see it now Jun 16 04:11:42 xvid_decore is provided by xvid library Jun 16 04:11:49 garg, it's after 9p already :-| Jun 16 04:11:51 Regarding context diffs, we raised that issue in channel before when there were active Palm guys here, and we did not get any cautions or anything as a result. Whilst that is in no way any kind of notification from Palm (either official or unofficial), I'm happy to conclude that context diffs are not likely to cause us problems. Jun 16 04:11:59 i'm sure context diff's are fine Jun 16 04:12:05 (as long as the diff does something legit, of course) Jun 16 04:12:08 spotter: thanks thats super helpful Jun 16 04:12:22 ShinAli: I can't do it as don't have a pre Jun 16 04:12:28 I'm limited to string and grep Jun 16 04:12:31 besides someone posting 1000 context diffs to show the entirety of the original file Jun 16 04:12:37 on some of the images (like for the phone buttons etc, it has multiple images in 1 png file (for on, off, etc) how does it differentiate between them in 1 png file? Jun 16 04:12:41 spotter: you can use arm bin utils? Jun 16 04:12:42 awesome, installed nano on my phone Jun 16 04:12:43 woo Jun 16 04:12:46 thats what i'm doing right now Jun 16 04:12:46 like diff sourcefile /dev/null or something Jun 16 04:12:51 of course, no one will be posting context diffs inline in the channel anyway (that's what pastebins are for), so from the IRC channel point of view it's a bit of a moot point. Jun 16 04:12:58 nm -C -D will demangle the c++ symbols Jun 16 04:13:02 make them more readable Jun 16 04:13:43 do these phones always get assigned the same ip address on the evdo network Jun 16 04:13:44 ? Jun 16 04:13:53 Elysian: No Jun 16 04:13:54 Elysian: No Jun 16 04:13:56 no Jun 16 04:13:57 lame Jun 16 04:14:01 mo, change every reboot Jun 16 04:14:04 Is there anyway to move the "launcher" icon in the bottom right of the quick launch bar to a "launcher page"? Jun 16 04:14:08 arm binutils aren't in buntu Jun 16 04:14:14 ubuntu Jun 16 04:14:16 pyrognome: more like change every connect Jun 16 04:14:29 spotter: you ought to install them! Jun 16 04:14:30 Okay, thank's rwhitby. I was waiting from some input from you. I think I'm going to start making some diffs and scripting these modifications then. Jun 16 04:14:42 i only notice myself actuallyy only when I reboot Jun 16 04:14:49 ripper: I would suggest using quilt on the phone Jun 16 04:14:52 we need someone who knows PS well to put some Pre image theme packs together Jun 16 04:15:02 and then have the diffs stored in a git repo. Jun 16 04:15:05 i cant seem to putty ssh into the pre anymore.....havent been able to since after i changed the dialer background. Any ideas? Jun 16 04:15:05 Just don't want to waste my time making something nobody will see cause I have nowhere to host it. Jun 16 04:15:06 ShinAli: I dont have the phone :) my interest is purely academic at this point Jun 16 04:15:17 ah ok Jun 16 04:15:23 not worth paying $40 more a month for 1000 less minutes to get a pre :) Jun 16 04:15:44 I use like 10 minutes a month ;-) Jun 16 04:15:46 weird, the password i set for my user account isn't working Jun 16 04:15:52 anyone know which app plays mp3s? Jun 16 04:15:53 i can host it at preguides.com Jun 16 04:15:56 spotter, you use minutes? lol, I've still yet to actually talk on my pre, and I bought it on release day. Jun 16 04:15:58 such as ringtones? Jun 16 04:16:04 keep getting network connection refused :\ Jun 16 04:16:04 start a mp3 and check top? Jun 16 04:16:05 I'd love to buy this with a 0 minute plan Jun 16 04:16:09 My phone started ringing, and I got all confused. Jun 16 04:16:14 my parents are on my account Jun 16 04:16:17 ripper, lol. I didn't make a phone call on my for a few days Jun 16 04:16:21 does applications folder need to be 777 for an upload? Jun 16 04:16:34 or hackyourpre.com Jun 16 04:16:36 ripper: the scripting mod patches is a great idea. I was starting to think about doing that, myself. Jun 16 04:16:39 we pay a total of 110 - 25% (yay IBM) for 3 lines with 2500 minutes, unlimited texting (don't use), unlimited Internet (use) Jun 16 04:17:30 ok... so, now that I have ssh working, how do I disable the telnet interface? Jun 16 04:17:31 jblebrun: have you used quilt before? Jun 16 04:17:37 anyone whos struggling financialy, should sign up for alliant credit union, free and 25% off monthly Jun 16 04:17:39 I've not Jun 16 04:17:41 *googles* Jun 16 04:17:48 * rwhitby is trying to push this quilt idea for patches, but no-one is biting. Jun 16 04:17:54 jbleburn, I'm also hoping to construct it in such a way that the shell scripts will hopefully be able to be called by a frontend gui once we find a way to interface between the frontend and the shell. Jun 16 04:17:57 did i just see spam? Jun 16 04:18:01 is there anyway to get acces to those sites you mentioned everfine? Jun 16 04:18:14 I guess wavs will be enough Jun 16 04:18:17 ripper, isn't that what the java app that's running is for? Jun 16 04:18:21 i haven't set them up yet. just hoarded the domain name Jun 16 04:18:32 *reads man page* Jun 16 04:18:33 ok lol Jun 16 04:18:40 ...argh why can i not ssh back in again... Jun 16 04:18:42 jblebrun, you mind it i format the PDF orient wiki to make it a bit more readable? Jun 16 04:18:43 rwhitby: someone should figure out if the global search can be restructured in a plugin method Jun 16 04:18:53 Dnic, i sometimes have spotty putty access Jun 16 04:18:58 i.e. read some file via the javascript and create the code it needs on the fly based on whats in a dir Jun 16 04:18:59 pyrognome: By all means, please do :-) Jun 16 04:19:00 * ripper reads man quilt Jun 16 04:19:01 even with my os x ssh is working fine Jun 16 04:19:06 with so many pre pages though i doubt preguides.com or hackyourpre.com will be worth anything though Jun 16 04:19:07 ripper: 'quilt push 010-ripper-global-search-add-dictionary.patch' Jun 16 04:19:19 yea i turned off and back on dev mode with no success Jun 16 04:19:26 well for the global searches, you should be able to make modules that a script builds into the final file from and includes file Jun 16 04:19:32 rwhitby: Ha. This sounds like the script I wanted to write to manage the patches. I forgot that everything's already been done. Jun 16 04:19:42 I bet this has been asked loads but is there progress on downloding files from the pre? Jun 16 04:19:45 take crap, +search 1+search 2 +search 3+crap and export the right file Jun 16 04:19:46 spotter: i'm %75 sure piranha is it now Jun 16 04:19:57 And no doubt 150% better than I would've done :-D Jun 16 04:19:58 I'd tend to agree Jun 16 04:20:06 does anyone have classic? Jun 16 04:20:10 I wonder what it's .so links to Jun 16 04:20:11 jblebrun: I'm figuring a public git repo of patches, then you just quilt push the ones you want to use Jun 16 04:20:29 that sounds good Jun 16 04:20:30 jblebrun: then you just git push back your new patch if you modify it Jun 16 04:20:33 shinali pm me what ldd shows for one of the browser plugins Jun 16 04:20:37 theres a luna.conf file under /etc/palm that has "PiranhaDrawColoredOutlines" and "PiranhaDisplayFps" properties Jun 16 04:20:43 anyone have a github account they want to lend? Jun 16 04:20:48 spotter: Jun 16 04:20:50 er Jun 16 04:20:51 boeing credit union don't have discounts :| Jun 16 04:20:51 aight Jun 16 04:21:06 Stik: all credit unions get 10% Jun 16 04:21:08 Tasty Jun 16 04:21:08 stik so get an account at alliant Jun 16 04:21:09 no questions asked Jun 16 04:21:09 emkman: I was thinking a project under gitorious.org - github has limitations above which you need to start paying Jun 16 04:21:22 All? Jun 16 04:21:24 rwhitby, sounds good Jun 16 04:21:27 yes Stik, all Jun 16 04:21:37 where I find that out Jun 16 04:21:44 just tell a care rep you are in boeing credit union and you want 10% Jun 16 04:21:47 they will apply it Jun 16 04:21:51 sprint.com/chat is easiest Jun 16 04:22:15 with ford you get 20% at least thats what i hear Jun 16 04:22:33 hmm was able to get back in via cmd after running talk.py Jun 16 04:22:36 rwhitby, sounds good. I dont host on github so i am not familiar with limitations Jun 16 04:22:42 wtf... i can't login via ssh to my phone now... Jun 16 04:22:57 guys - remember that there are people who read the logs of this channel to see talk on webos-internals - let's make sure there's not too much offtopic talk that they have to wade through please ... Jun 16 04:23:08 nice savings rates, too Jun 16 04:23:08 anyone know where the system manager is on the phone I keep seeing throughout the code is? Jun 16 04:23:13 Hrmm... thnx for the info.. I'll check it out Jun 16 04:23:19 having the same issue Elysian Jun 16 04:23:33 DNic, reboot 3 times Jun 16 04:23:34 :) Jun 16 04:23:40 http://www.preguide.com is up nothing there though. maybe it could be more of a help community instead of developers, to give these guys some room to code Jun 16 04:23:41 Realtors get discounts, too Jun 16 04:23:43 set my password and it won't take it... Jun 16 04:23:45 preguides** Jun 16 04:23:51 lol 3rd times the charm eh? Jun 16 04:23:53 I put a Realtor friend on my account to reap the bennies :-) Jun 16 04:23:53 spotter: http://webos.pastebin.com/d6d2302bd Jun 16 04:23:57 it was a lot of lines Jun 16 04:23:59 i think ssh isnt running on the phone Jun 16 04:23:59 hi, new here...in fact new to Linux world..is there any basic info..how to get into root of palm prr Jun 16 04:24:03 yeh its a joke from www.thewebsiteisdown.com Jun 16 04:24:03 but its the motionapps plugin Jun 16 04:24:17 ah lol Jun 16 04:24:24 welcome subhash Jun 16 04:24:30 oh wait i should robably set up the path stuff Jun 16 04:24:32 check the wiki for root instructions Jun 16 04:24:43 and the forums linked in the wikis Jun 16 04:24:45 and google Jun 16 04:24:49 access denied :/ Jun 16 04:24:50 then ask for help Jun 16 04:24:53 http://www.preguides.com is up nothing there though. maybe it could be more of a help community instead of developers, to give these guys some room to code** Jun 16 04:25:06 with a help IRC Jun 16 04:25:27 are there any other pre related chatrooms Jun 16 04:25:32 anyone know why i'd get access denied when trying to login after doing this wiki? http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 16 04:25:33 ShinAli: was is that? Jun 16 04:25:34 everfine: that would be awesome - we need somewhere to point folks to for user help Jun 16 04:25:36 classic? Jun 16 04:25:40 yes Jun 16 04:25:42 installed dropbear through that walkthrough Jun 16 04:25:51 Greetings fellow Pre-verts! =) Jun 16 04:25:53 really? Jun 16 04:25:55 not MAPartsAdapter.so Jun 16 04:26:13 well, i'll get something going. and here I thought i was gonna sleep tonight. Jun 16 04:26:19 seems my openssh file is missing in /even.d for some reason....wth? Jun 16 04:26:42 everfine: might want to give it a different look and feel to the predev site, so people don't get confused ... Jun 16 04:26:52 ok, I have been looking palm pre wiki..this is where I am stuck Jun 16 04:26:54 Get the rooter from subversion: http://svn.saurik.com/repos/webos-dev/trunk/rooter/ Jun 16 04:26:58 i know. i know. Jun 16 04:27:04 what does it mean? Jun 16 04:27:05 Someone was talking about "forking" this channel. Did anything come of that discussion? Jun 16 04:27:12 download all those files subhash Jun 16 04:27:23 ok Jun 16 04:27:40 jblebrun, how does one fork an irc channel? Jun 16 04:27:40 i put them right in the python26 directory(or wherever you installed python Jun 16 04:27:41 jblebrun: dunno - I've never seen any blog references to the other channel listed in the topic Jun 16 04:27:49 Would anyone be kind enough to ponder a problem with me; How to get a non-activated Pre past the profile creation screen? I'd like to Root it, but the konami codes won't work unless you can get to the Launcher. Jun 16 04:27:59 emkman: I think he's referring to the efnet channel Jun 16 04:28:09 thanks Elysian..what about : Run talk.py inside of subversion, it'll output a bunch of lines Jun 16 04:28:10 pEEf Jun 16 04:28:18 i read today about another possible dev mode root Jun 16 04:28:21 route* Jun 16 04:28:22 awesome, so telnet is turned off when you reboot... Jun 16 04:28:22 where I need to run this file Jun 16 04:28:24 thats why i put it in the python directory subhash Jun 16 04:28:29 I was just stealing terminology, hence "fork" in quotes. Jun 16 04:28:33 pEEf: did you buy that Pre out of contract? Jun 16 04:28:39 when i did it, i opened up a cmd prompt, cd\python26 Jun 16 04:28:40 Oh yeah, Emkman? Do tell? Jun 16 04:28:42 try holding down the volume up button before plugging in the USB cable Jun 16 04:28:44 then type python talk.py Jun 16 04:28:53 jblebrun: I think we would need an op to do it Jun 16 04:28:53 alright, with that done, I have to hit the sack... thanks for the advice, and remember in case anyone else asks, 64 bit XP doesn't work Jun 16 04:28:53 incidentally, a lot of the discussion in here should probably be happening in #webos already Jun 16 04:28:53 that way you can see the output Jun 16 04:28:53 ill see if I can find the post Jun 16 04:28:58 subhash: if you're asking these questions, you probably aren't going to be able to do much once you get your phone rooted. I'd recommend waiting until a more stream lined process is out Jun 16 04:29:04 rwhitby, yes. Jun 16 04:29:17 pEEf: out of interest, what does it cost? Jun 16 04:29:33 JackieRipper: I just meant another channel, with a new name... Jun 16 04:29:36 (trying to estimate what an unlocked GSM Pre will cost me in .au when it is released ...) Jun 16 04:29:51 pullingij..thanks for suggestion..but I really wanted to try..been a windows programmer for all these years..i should have tried my hands on something else also :-) Jun 16 04:29:52 peef: Jun 16 04:29:53 http://blog.steventroughtonsmith.com/2009/06/wwdcpalm-pre-rollercoaster-week.html Jun 16 04:29:54 Emkman: Doesn't that put it in Bootloader recovery mode? Jun 16 04:30:01 no idea Jun 16 04:30:09 vauge on details, but he did bypass activation with it Jun 16 04:30:11 allegedly Jun 16 04:30:12 ugh still not sure why putty is giving me connection refused msgs Jun 16 04:30:16 the retail price of the phone is 549 USD..after the subsidy its 199 USD Jun 16 04:30:20 rwhitby: I paid $400 for it on my local craigslist. Jun 16 04:30:26 jblebrun: I was involved with that discussion.... does one need to be an op to create a channel? Jun 16 04:30:27 emkman: trouble is you can't distribute that method, only the instructions for it Jun 16 04:30:29 does anyone know what unit of measure the pre's gps returns speed (or "velocity" as it says) in? Jun 16 04:30:43 emkman: and the instructions are gonna be much more difficult than our current route to root. Jun 16 04:30:45 JackieRipper: no. Just do /join #channel_name_that_doesnt_exist_yet Jun 16 04:30:47 spotter: ? MAPartsAdapter.so is the browser plugin for Classic Jun 16 04:30:51 its got the mimetype for it Jun 16 04:31:08 DNic: because no service is running on the specified port of the ip you're connecting to. (and it's probably not the pre because it ignores incoming connections until they time out if your ssh server isn't running) Jun 16 04:31:12 ShinAli: its in the rom Jun 16 04:31:15 agreed rwhitby, just trying to help peef out if possible Jun 16 04:31:16 The ESN appears to be clear, but Sprint won't activate it on my 3rd party employee plan unless I switch to Simply Everything Jun 16 04:31:17 due to the firewall rules Jun 16 04:31:18 how can it be in the rom if its classic Jun 16 04:31:23 i know Jun 16 04:31:26 Nick or channel is temporarily unavailable. #webos-internals-gettingstarted Jun 16 04:31:29 wow... I think sprint owes me some cash Jun 16 04:31:31 rwhitby: pre is US $549.99 off contract Jun 16 04:31:31 I thought that was google maps or something Jun 16 04:31:32 ?? Jun 16 04:31:39 spotter: it has a bunch of motionapps libraries in the rom too Jun 16 04:31:40 though I read it worong Jun 16 04:31:47 right Jun 16 04:31:50 I agree Jun 16 04:31:53 what does ldd say for it Jun 16 04:31:54 how do I login into my palm profile? Jun 16 04:31:54 I just created webos-helpme Jun 16 04:31:56 So for now, I'm just going to have fun exploring and maybe even developing some apps. It's still a cool box! Jun 16 04:32:04 pullingj: im using putty, i have 222 forwarded to the IP. I connected fine earlier int he day, cant seem to now for w/e reason Jun 16 04:32:09 Says here for sprint premiere you need 6mo and paying over 69.99 and I paid full - $75 for my upgrade Jun 16 04:32:12 i had to pay $549.99 for my gf's stupid pre. :( Jun 16 04:32:17 I guess #webos-internals-gettingstarted is too long Jun 16 04:32:39 * dreadchicken sleep Jun 16 04:32:55 DNic: if you're getting connection refused chances are you're not connecting to the pre anymore Jun 16 04:32:55 stupid gf's :( Jun 16 04:32:59 Guess I have a date with a sprint rep tomorrow Jun 16 04:33:06 JackieRipper: yeah, i got the same result for that one Jun 16 04:33:06 spotter: all i got is ld for arm Jun 16 04:33:12 that the right util? Jun 16 04:33:14 im able to telnet via cmd right now, just not through ssh Jun 16 04:33:24 how about webos-internals-for-n00bs Jun 16 04:33:26 i can't even telnet now DNic Jun 16 04:33:26 so aplay is there for wavs... is there a standalone app for mp3s? Jun 16 04:33:27 ;-) Jun 16 04:33:31 I guess the only possibility is to start digging through the tar and see if I can find out how to remove the profile login requirement. Jun 16 04:33:43 i can connect through putty using SSH, but i can't login, get access denied Jun 16 04:33:57 i know i'm typing in the same password i typed in when setting up dropbear and the user and all that Jun 16 04:34:03 Elysian no idea whats going on lol Jun 16 04:34:04 does netstat -a|grep 222 show a tcp 0 0 *:222 *:* LIST Jun 16 04:34:06 even root with no password doesn't work Jun 16 04:34:26 * EvanPro_ still doesn't know what unit of measure the Pre returns "velocity" as... it's not mph or kmh... it was returning 28.75 when i was going 65mph. Jun 16 04:34:29 I have nothing against n00bs, but it would be nice to separate the rooting the phone/installing ssh chat from the deeper internals chat Jun 16 04:34:44 ShinAli: it seems its just a wrapper of sorts Jun 16 04:35:03 the MAAdapter? Jun 16 04:35:20 rooting was a breeze once I figured out it don't work with win7 x64 Jun 16 04:35:22 ok i just ran the talk script again, maybe i can get back in that way Jun 16 04:35:23 Jun 16 04:35:23 65 mph = 29.0576 meters / second Jun 16 04:35:25 The Pre uses an Accelerometer. It cannot determine speed once you are stop accelerating. Jun 16 04:35:56 asedeno_home_afk: ahhh meters per second. thank you :) Jun 16 04:36:16 ok well i got in as root via telnet Jun 16 04:36:17 acceleration is m/s^2 Jun 16 04:36:19 pullingj i dont have netstat on this comp Jun 16 04:36:30 on the pre Jun 16 04:36:30 and elysian isn't working as a login, so i don't know why the command from that wiki failed :/ Jun 16 04:36:32 If you stay at a constant speed, the accelerometer will read zero. Jun 16 04:36:39 you said you can telnet in still? Jun 16 04:36:47 yea i can do that too Elysian Jun 16 04:36:51 yea Jun 16 04:36:51 ShinAli: lots of downloading references in it Jun 16 04:36:53 currently am Jun 16 04:37:02 pEEf, the accellerometer can't but the gps can. Jun 16 04:37:07 dnic: run netstat -a|grep 222 on the pre Jun 16 04:37:16 ripper: True that! Jun 16 04:37:20 i did the root and optware but i can't telnet or ssh into my pre after i rebooted it Jun 16 04:37:29 pEEf: right, but my app just reads the gps data for now. i'm ignoring the accelerometer. Jun 16 04:37:56 It might be cool to combine them to get a more responsive readout Jun 16 04:37:58 ok, really long list of stuff scrolled by pullingj Jun 16 04:38:16 spotter: all the LS stuff? Jun 16 04:38:25 dnic: "netstat -a|grep 222" should return one line or no lines Jun 16 04:38:36 Is there a published accelerometer service? Jun 16 04:38:39 pEEf: yeah, not a bad idea, actually... i may try to do something like that. Jun 16 04:38:41 no Jun 16 04:38:43 curl Jun 16 04:38:48 when I string it Jun 16 04:38:51 and http/https urls Jun 16 04:38:52 i got a bunch of unix 2/3 and s_socket lines Jun 16 04:38:58 if anyone is interested, and want to start more of a help channel for non-developers, there is a channel linked off of www.preguides.com in irc.freenode.net #preguides Jun 16 04:39:03 #webos-internals-firsttimer has been created. Jun 16 04:39:11 oh Jun 16 04:39:31 can you make it any longer Jun 16 04:39:32 it seems like it might be a simple app to wrap it Jun 16 04:39:34 have no idea Jun 16 04:39:37 you can point people who are just looking for answers there Jun 16 04:39:43 joshua: no, webos-internals-getting-started caused an error ;-) Jun 16 04:39:44 whats the limit on channel names Jun 16 04:39:46 jblebrun: it's hard to believe they wouldn't publish it. Useful for so many things! Jun 16 04:40:04 ah oops, a|grep yea it just went back to a new line pullingj Jun 16 04:40:24 probably 31 Jun 16 04:40:26 spotter: i'm pretty sure it is a wrapper, in the JS code of the classic app they called the embedded object "sampleAdapterObj" or something like that Jun 16 04:40:31 using sample code from palm Jun 16 04:40:32 DNic: sounds like you're not piping to grep. ok, your ssh daemon isn't runnig on port 222 Jun 16 04:40:51 it must have been the password i set for elysian, because i'm logged in via ssh now with a different password and different username Jun 16 04:40:52 odd, wonder how it changed Jun 16 04:40:58 everfine: Do you intend that channel for helping people who want to root their pre? Or for more general help? Jun 16 04:41:04 any way to get it back to 222? Jun 16 04:41:04 Accelerometer: http://predev.wikidot.com/accelerometer Jun 16 04:41:36 awesome, got it Jun 16 04:41:38 i'm ssh'd in now Jun 16 04:41:50 well, since i've been on here tonight, all questions are about rooting, NES, images, tweaks, etc....for "pimping out their pre" Jun 16 04:41:59 pEEF: No info about actually pulling out values. I poked around for a bit, but The device provides values over an i2c interface Jun 16 04:42:03 or just learning how to SSH Jun 16 04:42:12 anyone know off hand if there's a dbus daemon for the accelerometer? i'm not ssh'd in right now. Jun 16 04:42:16 and the same questions are flooding this IRC channel Jun 16 04:42:44 (dbus-util --list) Jun 16 04:42:50 EvanPro: Finding a library that has i2c-3 in the strings might be a good start Jun 16 04:43:18 I'd like for the #preguides channel to be focused on rooting and the things that non-developers non-linux experts can get help on Jun 16 04:43:30 everfine: Right, I agree. I just started a webos-internals-firsttime channel but if preguide is serving the same purpose I won't bother :-) Jun 16 04:43:53 jblebrun: Yeah, a lot of the internal periph's are I2C, so I bet there is a way to read it. Jun 16 04:44:47 spotter: okay i'm definately convinced it's piranha Jun 16 04:44:52 everfine: #preguides is shorter and already published, so preguides it is :-) Jun 16 04:45:04 i turned on debug options to draw colored boxes and the FPS Jun 16 04:45:05 I'm wondering how apps get ui's Jun 16 04:45:16 i got green boxes everywhere Jun 16 04:45:26 and a little fps on the bottom Jun 16 04:45:32 You should add it to the Jun 16 04:45:44 err add #preguides to the topic and wiki Jun 16 04:45:53 I suck at irssi Jun 16 04:45:55 EvanPro: output of dbus-util --list - http://webos.pastebin.com/f7298f3e3 Jun 16 04:46:06 thanks, brikus Jun 16 04:46:52 no problem. don't see anything that is obviously the accell but don't know Jun 16 04:46:59 #webOSnooblets Jun 16 04:47:11 Has anyone figured out how to backup/restore an active Pre? That would be a way of bypassing profile creation. Jun 16 04:47:26 for any new-user channel to be successful, it needs a critical mass of people who have already done the first-timer steps multiple times and are willing to help Jun 16 04:47:32 ShinAli: part of me think it draws over dbus Jun 16 04:47:35 but that makes no sense Jun 16 04:47:44 I'll wait for someone to show me such a channel before we link to it in the topic. Jun 16 04:47:45 brikus: EvanPro_: Also, tracing back from the orientationChanged even in Mojo might lead to something useful Jun 16 04:47:47 let the market decide :-) Jun 16 04:47:53 Restore someone's backup to mine, then I should be able to get past the profile wizard Jun 16 04:48:00 i guys and gals Jun 16 04:48:01 spotter: wouldn't that be a little slow? Jun 16 04:48:06 (I agree a separte channel is useful) Jun 16 04:48:13 ShinAli: X is communication protocol Jun 16 04:48:16 rwhitby: like the people in this channel ;) Jun 16 04:48:22 doesn't have to be very slow Jun 16 04:48:24 jblebrun: that was my second plan if it wasn't as obvious as a "com.palm.accelerometer" lol Jun 16 04:48:29 unfortunately one extra irc channel is enough for me Jun 16 04:48:33 but it be a bitch for heavy duty games Jun 16 04:48:48 i.e. games in X do direct rendering Jun 16 04:48:51 classic does fine with palmos games i think Jun 16 04:48:59 but they're not that amazing either Jun 16 04:49:00 those aren't heavy duty Jun 16 04:49:03 yeh Jun 16 04:49:29 pullingj: exactly Jun 16 04:49:32 No one started #preguides yet? Jun 16 04:49:37 spotter: where'd you get that assumption? Jun 16 04:49:42 I'm thinking one could not have a 3d accelerated game in a card at the moment Jun 16 04:49:43 the dbus thing Jun 16 04:49:58 everytime i try to ssh it says -sh: ssh: not found Jun 16 04:50:02 ShinAli: because I'm trying to imagine how it gets a rendering context Jun 16 04:50:06 and dont see anything Jun 16 04:50:11 how do i unisntall openssh so i can try dropbear isntead? Jun 16 04:50:11 people of that nintendo emulator running on classic don't they? Jun 16 04:50:17 its a guess in the dark Jun 16 04:50:28 join #preverts Jun 16 04:50:32 damn internets Jun 16 04:50:34 oops forgot slash Jun 16 04:50:38 oh, i'll try to look into it some more Jun 16 04:51:08 spotter: but i'd think the luna webkit will be better to look at Jun 16 04:51:10 spotter: How a nbapi plugin gets rendering context? Jun 16 04:51:39 jblebrun: quake live does it Jun 16 04:51:41 good point Jun 16 04:51:58 at least i think it does Jun 16 04:52:08 i know its a NPAPI plug in though Jun 16 04:53:01 downloading gnash Jun 16 04:54:12 well, just installed dropbear over openssh now i can use putty it seems Jun 16 04:54:27 yeah Jun 16 04:54:29 outstanding dnic Jun 16 04:54:39 do you run openvpn? Jun 16 04:54:51 no Jun 16 04:55:04 has anyone install apache yet? Jun 16 04:55:12 may be serve some mp3s HEH Jun 16 04:55:50 what we have here Jun 16 04:56:23 hmm Jun 16 04:56:27 oc80z: thttpd will take less resources Jun 16 04:56:32 in gnash Jun 16 04:56:41 anyone use Mojo.Log yet? Jun 16 04:56:47 if i install Debian, is it the full gui version or just command based? Jun 16 04:56:48 err = CallNPN_GetValueProc(NPNFuncs.getvalue, NULL, NPNVToolkit, (void *)&toolkit); Jun 16 04:56:49 where do those log entries go? Jun 16 04:56:55 is a hand held linux computer, with SYNERGY Jun 16 04:57:25 sweet, ill try it now Jun 16 04:57:34 hemna: i'm assuming they go to a debugger in the sdk. Jun 16 04:57:37 hemna: /var/log/messages Jun 16 04:57:46 or what jblebrun said lol Jun 16 04:57:55 k Jun 16 04:58:05 I'm tailing var/log/messages Jun 16 04:58:06 no dice Jun 16 04:58:12 Mojo.Log.info("ASSES0909"); Jun 16 04:58:16 nada Jun 16 04:58:48 is there a way to reboot the phone from the command prompt, like you can in linux? Jun 16 04:58:48 spotter: wassat mean Jun 16 04:58:49 is there any place to discuss rooting the pre from linux? I know it hasn't been done yet, but I want to see if I can contribute to the effort. Jun 16 04:59:07 yeah mrvc um Jun 16 04:59:12 may be we should work on that Jun 16 04:59:20 hemna: It worked for me when I was playing in the PDF Viewer. Jun 16 04:59:27 any idea why it's denying access to enable write access when i type mount -o remount, rw / Jun 16 04:59:33 hemna: Maybe some state needs to be enabled. Jun 16 04:59:35 just seemingly able to query what toolkit the browser is using Jun 16 04:59:47 Elysian, last time I did i am pretty sure it worked, but might not have been completely clean Jun 16 04:59:48 cant remember Jun 16 04:59:52 hmm Jun 16 04:59:53 logged in via ssh with username and password Jun 16 04:59:55 so, changes to appinfo.json take place after restarting lunasysmgr Jun 16 05:00:02 try reboot or shutdown -r now Jun 16 05:00:20 i notice the reboot command doesn't do anything, and my putty session just timed out on me, so i just did it manually Jun 16 05:00:21 do you have to nuke LunaSysMgr every time you make an app change? Jun 16 05:00:24 oc80z: I assume some people have made some progress at least Jun 16 05:00:30 guess i dont have any selftest pictures, i dont have /hwtest in /var/log Jun 16 05:00:36 hemna: Not always. I'm not sure what the rule is. Jun 16 05:00:40 k Jun 16 05:00:45 hemna: I didn't for the PDFViewer, I did for the phone Jun 16 05:00:54 i just tried to make changes to the dialpad and the messaging app, followed the directions exactly, and yet it failed :/ glad i backed up the files Jun 16 05:01:13 hemna: I think if your app registers some sort of long-term state with luna or is waiting for events, LunaSysMgr needs to be restarted Jun 16 05:01:21 i'm curious Jun 16 05:01:26 anyways, thanks for the help everyone Jun 16 05:01:27 later Jun 16 05:01:28 anyways Jun 16 05:01:29 ah k Jun 16 05:01:32 I'm tired Jun 16 05:01:33 jblebrun: how do you restart it? Jun 16 05:01:33 off to bed Jun 16 05:01:43 I'm just trying to get basic logging working (so I have a way to debug stuff) Jun 16 05:01:44 If it failed you didn't follow the instructions exactly :-| Jun 16 05:01:54 alert() doesn't seem to work :P Jun 16 05:02:32 spotter: i'm taking a look at BrowserAdapter.so in the plugins and i see references to PGContext Jun 16 05:02:47 oc80z: from what I've overheard, the pre developers are able to access it from linux without any special kernel drivers Jun 16 05:02:50 mount: permission denied. (are you root?) Jun 16 05:02:51 ok well now that im able to putty back in ill play more tmrw, have a good night everyone and thx for the help Jun 16 05:02:54 opie-x: initctl opie-x: initctl stop LunaSysMgr; initctl start LunaSysMgr Jun 16 05:02:57 anyone? Jun 16 05:03:11 simple enough thanks jb Jun 16 05:03:19 if i install Debian, i can choose to boot debian or webos, right? i wont phuck anything up? Jun 16 05:03:24 opie-x: it looks like a reboot, but is a bit faster Jun 16 05:03:28 You can save some keys and just do stop LunaSysMgr / start LunaSysMgr Jun 16 05:03:35 chrisa: thanks! Jun 16 05:03:57 oc80z: but when I plug it in in developer mode, I only get usb-storage Jun 16 05:04:01 Are people still doing silly things like playing music to keep from going to sleep? Jun 16 05:04:18 oc80z: so, I'm guessing it requires raw usb Jun 16 05:04:21 jblebrun done Jun 16 05:04:24 ShinAli: all I can say is I see Ipc in those names Jun 16 05:04:31 which goes to my dbus theory which can be totally bonkers Jun 16 05:04:34 chrisa: I've just been using novaterm Jun 16 05:04:51 thanks chrisa Jun 16 05:04:57 OS X FTW Jun 16 05:05:05 i listen to pandora while using SCP kinda nice to hear music while exploring Jun 16 05:05:12 and keep it alove Jun 16 05:05:18 alive* Jun 16 05:05:23 spotter: i'm not sure how NPAPI works, but does it let you directly draw on it without the help of any libraries? Jun 16 05:05:36 I dont know Jun 16 05:05:54 but all I see for drawing is jpeg/png stuff Jun 16 05:05:55 is anyone here going to be at Defcon in July? Jun 16 05:06:12 NPAPI like Netscape Plugin Application Programming Interface? Jun 16 05:06:19 yes Jun 16 05:06:48 all the plugins source code I can look at seem to run a separate X app and embed in firefox via the xembed protocol Jun 16 05:06:51 emkman: one of the kids that works for me is going. Jun 16 05:07:01 spotter: same Jun 16 05:07:04 oc80z: do you know of any irc channels or such where people have been discussing this? Jun 16 05:07:06 Would someone with a bit of FreeNode experience mind joining #preguides for a moment? Jun 16 05:07:42 EvanPro_, you should join. Its a blast Jun 16 05:07:44 ShinAli: Are you trying to find hooks into the render acceleration stuff? Jun 16 05:07:53 jblebrun: trying! Jun 16 05:08:03 props Jun 16 05:08:19 start: (14201/698229870) Need to be root Jun 16 05:08:29 is that accurate, or does it always say that Jun 16 05:08:36 actually i mostly stemmed from trying to figure out how to write an NPAPI plugin correctly for the Pre but it branched out to how the hell its drawing stuff Jun 16 05:08:40 opie-x: are you connected as a non-root user? Jun 16 05:08:48 all signs point to libPiranha.so Jun 16 05:08:59 ShinAli: The OMAP3430 has some render HW on the die, doesn't it? Jun 16 05:09:07 jblebrun: yes Jun 16 05:09:12 ahh, i thought i could chain sudo commands Jun 16 05:09:14 i got it backup Jun 16 05:09:14 powervr Jun 16 05:09:29 its a peppy little GPU too Jun 16 05:09:33 *excite* Jun 16 05:09:57 I....I.... I can make spheres have shadows........ once.... kinda.... Jun 16 05:10:16 ShinAli: is there any indication the PowerVR is being used by the Pre? Jun 16 05:10:34 https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Gecko_Plugin_API_Reference/Plug-in_Development_Overview#Drawing_a_Plug-in_Instance Jun 16 05:10:37 rwhitby: i have absolutely no idea Jun 16 05:10:53 BUT, again, everything centers on libPiranha.so Jun 16 05:11:08 ShinAli: nothing in the strings? Jun 16 05:11:14 its used by the webkit, lunasysmgr, so forth Jun 16 05:11:20 rwhitby: i'll be checking Jun 16 05:11:30 so does luna load every app in the /applications folder? Jun 16 05:11:36 or is there a config file for luna Jun 16 05:11:37 Does the kernel module g_composite have anything to do with rendering? Jun 16 05:11:47 hooray i'm in Jun 16 05:11:55 opie-x: there's a config file at /etc/palm/luna.conf Jun 16 05:11:56 jblebrun: g_composite is a usb gadget module Jun 16 05:12:02 me too Jun 16 05:12:07 so i gotta ask y'all Jun 16 05:12:13 wizkd will just laugh at me Jun 16 05:12:13 no you don't Jun 16 05:12:13 jblebrun: nothing to do with rendering Jun 16 05:12:18 my palm pre has dust INSIDE the screen Jun 16 05:12:21 it's not the digitizer matrix Jun 16 05:12:22 it's actual dust Jun 16 05:12:27 anybody else seen that yet? Jun 16 05:12:27 I don't laugh, I saw it Jun 16 05:12:36 Ok. Jun 16 05:12:44 agentsmith: i think mine has it Jun 16 05:12:47 brand new, just got it today - dust Jun 16 05:12:53 angers me beyond belief :-D Jun 16 05:12:53 agentsmith: heh - that's on-topic for webos-internals ;-) Jun 16 05:13:04 hahah it is "internal" hahah Jun 16 05:13:05 it looks like a hole on the screen or something Jun 16 05:13:15 Clearly I am way behind. Jun 16 05:13:30 well there's that digitizer matrix that looks like resisitive touch technology between the plates, you see it all over the screen - but i got dust - pretty sure i'm cursed Jun 16 05:13:32 yeah looks like a bad pixel, only it's not Jun 16 05:13:43 when the phone's powered off it haunts me Jun 16 05:14:06 ShinAli: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/NPP_SetWindow Jun 16 05:14:27 but that is the extent of my offroad topic - just curious if anyone else has seen that yet Jun 16 05:14:35 agentsmith: Ugh... I'm having empathy pangs :( Jun 16 05:14:54 agentsmith, i see a small bubble in the side of my screen near the edge, and im pretty sure it wasnt there originally Jun 16 05:15:26 Ok, everfine has started #preguides. So people who are predisposed to helping people learn how to root their Pre for the first time should go there. Jun 16 05:15:42 spotter: that is wonderfully ambiguous Jun 16 05:15:44 :( Jun 16 05:16:20 sometimes i think my pain for details is a curse, heh Jun 16 05:16:30 and filter repetitive and 101 questions into there. Also, if anyone wants to help answer questions, feel free to join. Jun 16 05:16:30 I'm beginning to think it just pushes png images or something Jun 16 05:16:33 unless it means you need some context from a graphics api for the window Jun 16 05:16:51 have the topic for #preguides point to the wiki? Jun 16 05:16:54 hmm Jun 16 05:17:02 but the pdf one doesnt link against png Jun 16 05:17:14 yes Jun 16 05:17:23 it links against nothing graphical Jun 16 05:18:04 Hmm? Jun 16 05:18:04 I give up for now Jun 16 05:18:05 too tired Jun 16 05:18:08 what cha working on spotter? Jun 16 05:18:22 Nice efforts Jun 16 05:19:14 jb: whats he working on? Jun 16 05:19:16 i wish palm provided a 3d graphics demo for no reason Jun 16 05:19:38 they provide their video haha Jun 16 05:19:55 os80z: They're trying to figure out how Palm is rendering graphics Jun 16 05:19:59 oc80z Jun 16 05:19:59 sorry Jun 16 05:20:02 ok Jun 16 05:20:04 ShinAli: look at the gstreamer sink Jun 16 05:20:04 My fingers are a mess. Jun 16 05:20:18 spotter: alright Jun 16 05:20:35 and Jun 16 05:20:44 perhaps something there Jun 16 05:21:01 it uses the omx library Jun 16 05:21:06 guys have we compiled a list of things 'wanted' under linux? Jun 16 05:21:10 which seems to give access to the underlying archtecture Jun 16 05:21:44 have we been able to mount remote ntfs Jun 16 05:21:57 or nfs? Jun 16 05:21:59 /home/reviewdaemon/projects/nova/oe/build_palm_castle_release/work/palmvideosink-omap34xx-1.0.0-34/34/Src/PmMediaGstVideoSinkLib. Jun 16 05:21:59 ofc right? Jun 16 05:22:02 or cifs Jun 16 05:22:05 right Jun 16 05:22:15 haven't tried yet Jun 16 05:22:19 that's a .c file Jun 16 05:22:42 spotter/ShinAli: Are either of you taking notes anywhere public? Jun 16 05:23:02 %s-%s:%s(%d):INFO render=%d (1=rgb,2=yuv,3=open,4=close overlay) Jun 16 05:23:02 %s-%s:%s(%d):DEBUG: RENDER_NONE: vhm_release(),sendApplicationMsg(APPMSG_SINK,0) Jun 16 05:23:02 %s-%s:%s(%d):DEBUG: RENDER_OVERLAY: vhm_acquire(). sendApplicationMsg(APPMSG_SINK,1) Jun 16 05:23:02 %s-%s:%s(%d):DEBUG: RENDER_OVERLAY: vhm_format(). Jun 16 05:23:02 %s-%s:%s(%d):DEBUG: RENDER_RGB/RENDER_YUV Jun 16 05:23:03 nah i'm letting irc logs take care of that Jun 16 05:23:07 for video Jun 16 05:23:08 hmm Jun 16 05:23:37 video might use video4linux2 api Jun 16 05:23:56 this is freaking me out, an old boss of mine used the login name spotter Jun 16 05:23:56 the best part of that is "RENDER" Jun 16 05:24:09 mrvc, you looked at bpadalino's linux driver? Jun 16 05:24:10 jblebrun: this is the public note-taking place :-) Jun 16 05:24:10 zsazs: get back to work Jun 16 05:24:41 not much internal talk though :( Jun 16 05:24:41 how about that rDNS server iw as talkin about today Jun 16 05:24:44 hah Jun 16 05:24:45 Well, ok. I was never very good at reviewing IRC logs :-P Jun 16 05:24:53 The INADYN service? Jun 16 05:25:02 anyone know how to root the phone on linux? Jun 16 05:25:06 jblebrun, so it seems that most of the time the .js files are cached by LunaSysMgr Jun 16 05:25:08 gaffo can you not do it? Jun 16 05:25:19 I made several edits....restarted the card Jun 16 05:25:20 nada Jun 16 05:25:28 VHM seems to stand for video hardware manager Jun 16 05:25:31 then bounced LunaSysMgr, and the new changes worked Jun 16 05:25:50 I'm working off the calculator codebase Jun 16 05:25:59 rwhitby: What was that drive-by? :-) Jun 16 05:26:08 gaffo, no way Jun 16 05:26:17 oc80z, the novacom stuff doesn't install on linux Jun 16 05:26:33 Umm novacom? Jun 16 05:26:36 jblebrun: just checking the take-up Jun 16 05:26:45 Sargun, is that a not possible or you don't know Jun 16 05:26:48 oh ur on that point Jun 16 05:26:50 Hah. Yeah. Apparently no one's into it. Jun 16 05:26:50 rwhitby: not to spectacular as of yet. Jun 16 05:26:56 oc80z, yah you need a novacom like driver that knows how to talk over usb in linux to the Pre Jun 16 05:27:00 it doesn't exist yet Jun 16 05:27:02 oc80z, NovacomInstaller_x86.msi Jun 16 05:27:03 I wonder if any other gstreamer plugin will just work in the pre if the .so is dropped in place Jun 16 05:27:04 gaffo, currently you don't have it Jun 16 05:27:09 the MSI? Jun 16 05:27:12 when you subscribe to get gps updates via palm://com.palm.location/startTracking, is there a limit on how many updates you get before it stops, or should it go forever? Jun 16 05:27:12 My Pre hard reset itself today... Jun 16 05:27:13 Oh gaffo, Jun 16 05:27:16 that was wierd Jun 16 05:27:18 that msi is for windog Jun 16 05:27:21 Sargun, I'm wondering how the SDK works Jun 16 05:27:22 gaffo can you just install it over at a friends? Jun 16 05:27:23 hemna, I know that Jun 16 05:27:25 or run VMWare? Jun 16 05:27:26 EvanPro_, it should go forever, but I'm seeing issues with it Jun 16 05:27:31 Sargun, I froze mine :) Jun 16 05:27:37 has anyone tried it on VMWare? Jun 16 05:27:42 though it has ffmpeg, so perhaps no need Jun 16 05:27:45 that will work Jun 16 05:27:47 gaffo, not I Jun 16 05:27:51 sargun, my pre went totally black today for some reason... hard to take the battery out/in to get it to come back. Jun 16 05:27:52 i am prety sure. Jun 16 05:27:53 i'm going to head to bed Jun 16 05:28:05 too tired for now Jun 16 05:28:08 dkelson: thx for the openssh with-password fix Jun 16 05:28:09 Meh, I still have work work to finish. Jun 16 05:28:18 EvanPro_, It's a mass migration. Jun 16 05:28:28 Sargun: also libPiranha.so draws things Jun 16 05:28:28 Window drivers in Linux? Jun 16 05:28:30 Uhmmm Jun 16 05:28:30 sargun, is it stopping after like 15 or so gps updates for you? that's what happens to me. Jun 16 05:28:35 oc80z, Wine Jun 16 05:28:39 ShinAli, when did we discover that Jun 16 05:28:41 bdumm: no, not yet Jun 16 05:28:46 EvanPro_, no, not at all Jun 16 05:28:47 http://gsmserver.com/search/Linux%20Novacom%20drivers.html Jun 16 05:28:50 Sargun: little while ago Jun 16 05:28:54 Linux Novacom drivers Jun 16 05:28:55 oc80z, pure virtulization :) Jun 16 05:29:04 me and spotter mostly Jun 16 05:29:05 My wife Pre has a cracked screen (kids stepped on it). It no longer responds to any screen/finger presses. The keyboard still works. How do I wipe it clean (without touching the screen) before I send it back? Jun 16 05:29:14 may be thats not it :P Jun 16 05:29:14 rwhitby, no problem Jun 16 05:29:20 tp://gsmserver.com/search/Linux%20Novacom%20drivers.html Jun 16 05:29:21 oc80z, I saw that, never saw the drivers though Jun 16 05:29:24 oops Jun 16 05:29:29 yeah gaffo: VMWare Jun 16 05:29:29 dkelson, aw... Jun 16 05:29:36 there were properties in the luna.conf file about Piranha stuff like drawing boxes and enabling FPS Jun 16 05:29:40 oc80z, have you tried it? Jun 16 05:29:44 ShinAli, interesting Jun 16 05:29:58 Does webOS Doctor require screen input? Jun 16 05:30:01 ShinAli, have you figured out pulse audio yet? Jun 16 05:30:05 oc80z, vmware that is? Jun 16 05:30:11 haven't looked into it Jun 16 05:30:13 sargun, which issues are you having with the gps updates? Jun 16 05:30:21 i'm going to figure out piranha some more first Jun 16 05:30:21 mrvc, http://github.com/bpadalino/precomd/tree/master Jun 16 05:30:27 after i sleep of course Jun 16 05:30:35 spotter: thanks guy Jun 16 05:30:40 Sargun, the sdk supposedly supports linux, they must have somthing open or some driver. I'm guessing its more that somthing is open Jun 16 05:30:41 Oh nice Jun 16 05:30:43 .\etc\palm\autoreplace\en_us\ Jun 16 05:30:58 paide|paid Jun 16 05:30:58 paitience|patience Jun 16 05:31:01 dkelson: vol-up doctor shouldn't require screen input Jun 16 05:31:05 Wow nice Jun 16 05:31:09 gaffo, it took 2~ weeks for them to write it supposidly... Jun 16 05:31:11 phb: whut whut Jun 16 05:31:29 ShinAli: Jun 16 05:31:32 in the officeserver app Jun 16 05:31:36 message "No offscreen buffer!" Jun 16 05:31:37 hmm Jun 16 05:31:39 geist, eh? Jun 16 05:31:44 geist: laundrytime whoot.. too early Jun 16 05:31:47 Does webos doctor work on Mac OS X with the stock java version or do I need to update Java first? Jun 16 05:31:51 phb: yeah, wakey wakey Jun 16 05:32:09 spotter: let me take a look Jun 16 05:32:17 bdumm, the SDK or linux? Jun 16 05:32:30 nova linux driver Jun 16 05:32:32 bdumm, er the linux version? Jun 16 05:32:41 bdumm: thanks, looks interesting Jun 16 05:32:47 bdumm, who's they? palm? Jun 16 05:32:49 winhose took months lol Jun 16 05:32:52 yes Jun 16 05:33:20 any progress on a webos GUI terminal app? Jun 16 05:33:32 there has been one check wiki iirc Jun 16 05:33:37 bdumm, okay, so I'll just use windows and wait for the sdk. I'll also persue the "U borked my phone and I only have windows and I'm on a boat in the midle of the ocean" plan :) Jun 16 05:33:47 dkelson: still only the webshell I think Jun 16 05:34:00 bdumm, nothing on the wiki as far as I could see Jun 16 05:34:15 dkelson: i got an idea about using a headless Netscape plugin that forks a shell and routes output/input between javascript and the plugin Jun 16 05:34:22 man this irc is too active. needs to be split into #weboshelp and #webos-internals Jun 16 05:34:26 gaffo: i meant to dkelson and the webos gui terminal app Jun 16 05:35:00 gaffo: setup ssh etc, login as you please... Jun 16 05:35:03 windows novacom driver? yeah, that was a bitch Jun 16 05:35:09 gaffo: everfine has started #preguides for general help Jun 16 05:35:13 ask phb about it, he'd love to talk about it Jun 16 05:35:16 geist, sorry to bring up memory Jun 16 05:35:20 gaffo: But people need to go there before it's any use :-) Jun 16 05:35:26 phb, how was the winhose driver? Jun 16 05:35:28 jblebrun, cool Jun 16 05:35:32 and doesn't winhose7 work? Jun 16 05:35:37 er why doesn't Jun 16 05:35:43 ugh Jun 16 05:35:47 jblebrun, was the wiki updated? Jun 16 05:35:51 lol Jun 16 05:35:54 anyways Jun 16 05:35:55 I'm beat Jun 16 05:35:56 bpadalino: does github have a concept of projects? Jun 16 05:36:04 gaffo: working on it now Jun 16 05:36:06 gaffo: He's working on it right now. Jun 16 05:36:08 dkelson, log on to palms site and give it the kill pill? Jun 16 05:36:11 everfine, sweet Jun 16 05:36:18 jblebrun, heh Jun 16 05:36:21 spotter: later Jun 16 05:36:34 where are core apps located again Jun 16 05:36:40 bdumm: I don't know, why doesn't it work? Maybe microsoft deprecated some api? Jun 16 05:36:52 such as clock .. etc Jun 16 05:36:55 WDS-Scott: /usr/palm/applications Jun 16 05:37:10 phb, i don't use such oses, so I dunno, just what i see here.... Jun 16 05:37:25 jblebrun: those are downloaded apps Jun 16 05:37:32 where are apps such as clock Jun 16 05:37:32 pyrognome, good idea. accept she already has her replacement Pre up and running. :) Jun 16 05:37:39 --($:/home/bdumm)-- cat /etc/issue Jun 16 05:37:40 LSB Sample Implementation 2.0 Jun 16 05:37:40 WDS-Scott: No. Jun 16 05:37:43 WDS-Scott: those are it Jun 16 05:37:46 * bdumm uses vintage OSes Jun 16 05:37:46 lol Jun 16 05:37:52 WDS-Scott: Downloaded apps are in /var/usr/palm/applications Jun 16 05:37:57 lol silly me Jun 16 05:38:04 Yes ;-) Jun 16 05:38:05 root in my sftp is /var Jun 16 05:38:08 shinali: from wc-ing the adapter .so files, it looks like the webos browser plugins use a c++ wrapping of npapi, so i think it's more than just making a netscape plugin Jun 16 05:38:12 D'oh! Jun 16 05:38:14 not / Jun 16 05:38:15 doi! Jun 16 05:38:19 er, not wc, nm Jun 16 05:38:43 phb, where is the sdk? Jun 16 05:38:44 jblebrun: thanks! Jun 16 05:38:52 * bdumm would like to see more internals discussions here... Jun 16 05:39:09 bdumm, should encourage people to move :) Jun 16 05:39:13 zsazs: i don't see it being used in MAPartsAdapter though Jun 16 05:39:14 it seems like any time there's any kind of disruption in the data connection, my app stops getting gps updates. Jun 16 05:39:18 bdumm: .palm.com? Can't say much about it obviously Jun 16 05:39:31 shinali, oh really Jun 16 05:39:36 phb, yea those all redirect lol Jun 16 05:39:45 Quick question about a just-rooted Pre: I'm more than a little nervous about a password-free root account. Does the rooter eliminate the password or is that stock? Jun 16 05:39:53 hope soon, appease the natives.... Jun 16 05:39:56 Phazed, that is stock Jun 16 05:40:03 k, ty Jun 16 05:40:35 bdumm, natives are always restless! Jun 16 05:41:17 My internals are rumbling after that Subway sub I ate. Jun 16 05:41:18 zsazs: i think lunamediaadapter is the only one that uses it? Jun 16 05:41:20 dkelson: did the vol-up doctor work? Jun 16 05:41:43 Phazed: our instructions leave you with a secure Pre Jun 16 05:41:59 just don't run telnetd after the reboot Jun 16 05:42:10 also, if the card loses focus, it seems like my app gets "unsubscribed" from the gps updates. Jun 16 05:42:36 I'm using it for the first time on my wife's Mac OS X laptop. It didn't detect the Pre (although the Pre had the Just Charge/ USB DISK/ Media Sync notification on the screen). I'm updating her Mac OS X software (there was a Java update), and trying again soon. Jun 16 05:42:47 EvanPro_, you there still Jun 16 05:42:48 gaffo, yea but there is lots of basic questions going about with folks spinning their wheels imho Jun 16 05:42:55 sargun, yeah Jun 16 05:43:05 EvanPro_, Did you write your tutorial on writing Mojo Apps? Jun 16 05:43:06 and i sure would ask what is up with these 4000~ line files anyways *ugh* Jun 16 05:43:14 :) Jun 16 05:43:27 bdumm, I've noticed. I've run a few of these things, nothing with legs like this, but it's best to split it. Jun 16 05:43:33 monolithic and then some Jun 16 05:43:34 bdumm, asap. Jun 16 05:43:45 yeah, I installed ssh, then ran a qucik nmap and nothing stupid showed up, I'm more of a BSD guy than Linux and we always block root. Glad to know it's a non-issue. Jun 16 05:43:52 php=thttpd works :P Jun 16 05:44:01 err php-thttpd Jun 16 05:44:05 I swear my wife's replacement Pre has different screen texture than her old one (and mine too). Maybe it just doesn't have enough cheek grease on it yet. :) Jun 16 05:44:09 sargun, not yet... didn't have time today. plus, i want to understand the implications of multitasking a little better before i write it... for example, why my app loses it's gps subscription when the card loses focus. Jun 16 05:44:19 dkelson, it seems like they have multiple runs Jun 16 05:44:22 EvanPro_, hm... Jun 16 05:44:26 * rwhitby loves http://images.intomobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/sprint-no-tethering-pre.jpg Jun 16 05:44:30 sargun, more questions answered in the tut = less questions asked in here. Jun 16 05:44:35 now if I could get php to get access to the camera and serve up the image Jun 16 05:44:47 EvanPro_, Can you have script tags in mojo apps to load mojo code? Jun 16 05:44:52 rwhitby, hahah Jun 16 05:45:03 EvanPro_, er, mojo apps to load remote mojo code. Jun 16 05:45:14 EvanPro: Are you using any of the power/wake services? Jun 16 05:45:16 EvanPro_, Like, or all script tags "secured" by context? Jun 16 05:45:24 hemna, ruby would be better :) Jun 16 05:45:36 eh.../me is not a ruby fan Jun 16 05:45:40 EvanPro_, this have any effect on such? from mojo.js Jun 16 05:45:43 /* Right now, DOM modifications from parent windows do Jun 16 05:45:43 not cause repaints in the child. This timer will cause those Jun 16 05:45:43 repaints. Measured on the device, it doesn't appear to have Jun 16 05:45:43 a significant effect on CPU usage. Remove this once repaints Jun 16 05:45:43 in child windows are happening on their own. */ Jun 16 05:45:45 jblebrun: haven't touched the power/wake services yet.. Jun 16 05:46:01 gaffo u look in that folder much? Jun 16 05:46:09 gaffo Linux or BSD? Jun 16 05:46:30 bdumm: hmmm so maybe it is updating, but not being repainted? Jun 16 05:46:44 bdumm: i can test that, actually.. Jun 16 05:46:46 oc80z, linux Jun 16 05:46:51 oc80z, I must be missing it Jun 16 05:46:52 dunno, just when you said that, that comment stuck out, might be nada :) Jun 16 05:47:03 anyone available to answer some questions in private? Jun 16 05:47:14 bdumm: might be something.. i'll check it out. Jun 16 05:47:42 analog1, no private conversations please. Jun 16 05:47:45 sargun, not sure what you mean exactly... you mean can i host my app remotely, essentially.. and just have a script tag that loads in the js? Jun 16 05:47:45 shinali: it looks like the NPAPI functions are inside a AdapterBase:: class in all of the plugin .so files, including MAPartsAdatper.so Jun 16 05:47:52 EvanPro_, well, yeah Jun 16 05:48:01 sargun, i'd imagine i can.. let me try though. Jun 16 05:48:15 Heh Jun 16 05:48:23 EvanPro_, because isn't the app JS loaded only the first time the app starts, so you have to restart lunasysmgr to get it to restart? Jun 16 05:48:26 what's wrong with private Jun 16 05:48:26 gaffo, you might be looking for a port for: msvcp80.dll , nosxs_msvcm80.dll Jun 16 05:48:34 zsazs: that makes more sense now Jun 16 05:48:43 sargun, yes... which has been quite annoying. Jun 16 05:48:58 sounds like an abstract class made for webOS Jun 16 05:49:00 sargun: i'll give it a shot right now. Jun 16 05:49:04 Sargun: Not always. When I was playing with PDFViewer, it reflected updates without restarting anything. Jun 16 05:49:04 which is disappointing me :( Jun 16 05:49:07 may be not Jun 16 05:49:21 geist, phb, can ya'll answer a question like if I have two IDs of the same name in two different .jsons then what happens to the first one? Jun 16 05:49:37 shinali: yeah... without a .h file it'll be hard to reverse engineer Jun 16 05:49:40 oc80z, where'd you find that info? Jun 16 05:50:00 EvanPro_, I want to write a remote debugger/code editor for the pre Jun 16 05:50:02 hey geist, phb, can i have a header file Jun 16 05:50:25 ie i cp -a /usr/palm/blah.calculator blah.calculator2 and changed just the title of calculator2 to calculator2, calculator disappears to ? Jun 16 05:50:28 jblebrun: some changes seem to take place, some don't... i got stumped for a few hours yesterday cause i was under the assumption all changes were instant... but they're not at all. only some. haven't figured out the pattern. Jun 16 05:50:40 sargun, i would like / use that. Jun 16 05:51:13 EvanPro_, someone mentioned cache/cookies etc earlier Jun 16 05:51:23 zsazs: i'll look into them tomorrow, but i'm still hoping for a basic NPAPI plugin to work Jun 16 05:51:36 EvanPro_, studied like how Pandora works? Jun 16 05:51:49 hrm Jun 16 05:52:02 its in /var/usr/palm/blah.pandora Jun 16 05:52:35 i'm installing the ssh onto the phone but when i initctl start openssh it says "initctl: (04634/155434567) Unknown job: openssh" Jun 16 05:52:35 bdumm: i haven't yet... i'll do that next. Jun 16 05:52:50 alot of the mojo files I looked at have more/less sdk comments in them as well... Jun 16 05:52:52 trying to remotely load an assistant js file right now... Jun 16 05:52:59 bdumm: give me some context? Jun 16 05:52:59 does this mean i have not install correctly Jun 16 05:53:07 i cannot ssh into my phone Jun 16 05:53:22 phb, umm whats confusing with what i wrote above as the ie? Jun 16 05:53:50 bdumm: what kind of id's? you are talking about the appinfo_ Jun 16 05:54:02 calculator does not show up on my launcher screen anymore just calculator2 because both apps have the same ID Jun 16 05:54:27 phb in an appinfo.json there is a title and an id Jun 16 05:55:01 i just changed the title of calculator2's appinfo.json, after i did a cp -a calculator calculator2 Jun 16 05:55:04 bdumm: sounds reasonable to me, I believe the appstore would make sure the id's are unique Jun 16 05:55:14 inadyn - 1.96.2-2 - INADYN is a dynamic DNS client. That is, it maintains the IP address of a host name. It periodically checks whether the IP addr Jun 16 05:55:17 Heh Jun 16 05:55:20 thats helpfull Jun 16 05:55:35 ic, i thought it would be the other way, ie first come first served Jun 16 05:55:37 bdumm: and yes, it is required for the id to be unique Jun 16 05:55:47 i bet there is atleast a gig of bandwidth per month if you leave port 22 open for banner scans :P Jun 16 05:55:48 so i could make a pandora ID for my app and ? Jun 16 05:55:50 oh, none of them show up? Jun 16 05:56:03 just calculator2 not calculator it disappears Jun 16 05:56:28 * bdumm goes to change his calculator2 to pandora... oh the power of the pre lol Jun 16 05:56:29 how to you reload the apps? Jun 16 05:56:53 All: I went a little crazy on the wiki. Jun 16 05:57:04 i've been doing the winhose method ie reboot or shutdown -r now Jun 16 05:57:16 ultraBlack: Thanks for fixing my stuff Jun 16 05:57:21 * bdumm lazy and should use init.d whatevers but... Jun 16 05:57:34 12462 root 20 0 1592 652 496 D 18.8 0.3 0:00.21 updatedb Jun 16 05:57:35 lol Jun 16 05:57:36 sargun, it works... loading the app js remotely... it just obviously makes the app very slow to start. Jun 16 05:57:40 ah, I would expect a different behaviour if you install from the appstore, but I really don't know that code Jun 16 05:57:55 why does the kernel take so long to boot btw? ie i'm assuming the flashing logo = init.d started... Jun 16 05:58:04 not quite Jun 16 05:58:23 theres a lot of modprobe , services, and HAL stuff man Jun 16 05:58:28 k Jun 16 05:58:30 bdumm: ask geist Jun 16 05:58:32 :P Jun 16 05:58:34 i bet it boots into OK> very QUICK! hehee Jun 16 05:58:35 lol Jun 16 05:58:50 netboots anyone Jun 16 05:59:00 sure thats fun Jun 16 05:59:02 bdumm: what you said is incorrect though, flashing logo is farther down the bootstage Jun 16 05:59:27 besides thats a small % of B/W, there are OTA checks too, no? Jun 16 05:59:33 oh, i just assumed normal distro boot logo dealios Jun 16 05:59:35 integrity checks Jun 16 06:00:07 its fast. Jun 16 06:00:18 can we have kvm or other virtualization in our stock pre kernel? Jun 16 06:00:25 yeah we can Jun 16 06:00:28 sargun, it's still caching the js though... i'm going to try appending a random number to the query string on the url. Jun 16 06:00:30 * bdumm smiles Jun 16 06:00:41 Oh you mean you bypassed activation? Jun 16 06:00:48 ? Jun 16 06:01:14 dunno what do you mean? Jun 16 06:01:23 you have pixie or nova? Jun 16 06:01:24 * joesmith is testing the purple thing Jun 16 06:01:29 virtualization like kvm, xen, vmware etc Jun 16 06:01:45 oh like in some of the demos Jun 16 06:01:58 KVM i thought you meant like a switching system, thats possible, i did it with sidekick Jun 16 06:02:11 ie stick in usb card reader to pre's usb slot, stick in OS on SD card, use pre to virtualize it Jun 16 06:02:20 but that after the sdk Jun 16 06:02:22 or whatever of such Jun 16 06:02:23 (ofc) Jun 16 06:02:31 * bdumm waits patiently Jun 16 06:02:33 .... Jun 16 06:02:38 Oh Jun 16 06:02:54 um, i dont think that will work Jun 16 06:02:58 ? Jun 16 06:03:24 whats the difference between virtualization and the chrooted debian Sargun ran? Jun 16 06:04:08 Virtualization would be a server running a main node, with clients below it in the hiarachy, a Virtual private system.. Jun 16 06:04:41 Sargun what chrooted debian os did you run Jun 16 06:04:57 so, what's the point of the chrooted debian for the various things that use directfb? it's just easier to get development up and running with? Jun 16 06:04:58 are you talking homebrew? Jun 16 06:05:13 me? Jun 16 06:05:35 you guys plug in ez-ipupdate yet? Jun 16 06:05:39 dunno. Jun 16 06:06:00 if what you are saying is correct, hotswap OS's Jun 16 06:06:07 if I manually run it, it works...just not sure where to put it so that when I get a new ppp0 ip, ez-upipdate runs Jun 16 06:06:41 thats nonsense. all the drivers are prepriatory and closed from us and the Chineese. Jun 16 06:06:45 HEH Jun 16 06:07:33 Palm Pre support added in WordPress Mobile Edition 3.0.5 Jun 16 06:07:47 neat. Jun 16 06:12:05 awesome... i got my app to load new JS every time it's opened from my server. Jun 16 06:12:12 EvanPro_, and you can access palm URLs? Jun 16 06:12:16 oc80z, lenny Jun 16 06:12:21 EvanPro_, ? Jun 16 06:12:29 good call on the remote js, sargun. Jun 16 06:12:33 hello, does the Pre can de-active out side of US Jun 16 06:12:51 EvanPro_, but can you access palm:// URLs from it Jun 16 06:13:09 sargun, yes.. i'm using palm://com.palm.location/startTracking from the remotely hosted JS. Jun 16 06:14:26 this is so cool... i can just handle app updates automatically like this.. at least for an app like this one that's useless without a data connection anyways... obviously you wouldn't want to make a calculator app and load he js remotely, haha. Jun 16 06:15:19 zsazs: chrooted debian is the only way we've been able to access the framebuffer so far Jun 16 06:15:55 now i just need to figure out why the updates randomly stop coming. Jun 16 06:17:27 where are the images for the photo album stored? Jun 16 06:18:06 EvanPro_, so you host the .js for the app remotely? Jun 16 06:18:44 Pix are in media/internal/DCIM/100PALM Jun 16 06:18:49 I found a few new tidbits. Dialing ##786# gives you all kinds info, similar to how it worked on the Treo Jun 16 06:18:56 nice i figured out my ssh problem :) Jun 16 06:19:08 Phazed, thanks Jun 16 06:19:12 If you know your MSL, you can reset all the timers Jun 16 06:19:44 hemna: yep... it works perfectly... just had to add a random number to the end of the url to combat caching, like.. foobar-assistant.js?48192 Jun 16 06:19:45 This works even on my non-activated Pre Jun 16 06:20:08 ah yah, that's common for ajax requests as well Jun 16 06:20:11 cool Jun 16 06:20:31 pEEf: also ##33284# (DEBUG) Jun 16 06:25:21 pandora has obsfucated all the good stuff Jun 16 06:25:29 nice find pEEf Jun 16 06:25:38 i love how all the CDMA codes are almost standarized Jun 16 06:25:52 EvanPro_, :( Jun 16 06:26:56 i found ##debug# the other day too to see if it was actually roaming on verizon or not Jun 16 06:27:00 that's handy Jun 16 06:27:12 the 33284 one previously mentioned Jun 16 06:28:04 how annoying that the gps subscription would just die... Jun 16 06:28:42 the advanced menu on ##data# lets you reconfigure your vocoder if you know your MSL Jun 16 06:29:01 and your slot cycle index Jun 16 06:29:44 an incoming sms also kills the gps updates Jun 16 06:30:24 anyone play with dataimport? did it work? Jun 16 06:35:34 bpadalino: ping Jun 16 06:35:36 dkelson: ping Jun 16 06:43:04 yikes Jun 16 06:43:04 woah, quieter! Jun 16 06:43:09 yea Jun 16 06:43:14 boosh Jun 16 06:43:19 did you look at the BSD drivers? Jun 16 06:43:28 always quiet at this time of day ... Jun 16 06:43:30 oc80z, never saw a link Jun 16 06:43:41 will change once the Pre is available outside the US Jun 16 06:44:10 launchctl load -w /Library/LaunchDaemons/com.palm.novacomd Jun 16 06:44:23 oc80z, linux remember, not bsd Jun 16 06:44:23 :) Jun 16 06:44:31 same diff Jun 16 06:44:44 not binary compatible Jun 16 06:45:30 heh yeah different... OS and kernel Jun 16 06:45:32 yeah its not going to work Jun 16 06:45:45 if only :( Jun 16 06:45:55 rwhitby, I'm back Jun 16 06:46:17 I guess I can just usb up to one of my windows at work and get it rooted. Jun 16 06:47:44 where can i find a glossary of all the meanings for the commands in ssh, like cp or mkdr etc Jun 16 06:48:12 dkelson: I wanted to ask you before I changed the link on http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository to point to http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/master/etc/event.d/optware-dropbear Jun 16 06:48:14 phb, geist -- once I pull up "device info" how do I press/activate the "full erase" button using only the physical keyboard? My wife's Pre has a cracked screen and doesn't recognize keypresses it is also no longer on Sprint's network (she has a replacement Pre). Jun 16 06:48:28 analog1, look into bash or sh Jun 16 06:48:47 analog1, those are the main shells in linux Jun 16 06:49:13 analog1, which is what you're getting. ssh (secure shell) is just giving you a prompt on the pre Jun 16 06:49:22 rwhitby, OK by me. Jun 16 06:49:43 thanks gaffo Jun 16 06:50:05 dkelson: don't know (Don't have a pre to try with here either) Jun 16 06:50:20 ultraBlack: nice work on the wiki tags Jun 16 06:51:44 analog1, np Jun 16 06:51:47 rwhitby, I have a gitorious acct now. Can you give me write access to both scripts please. Jun 16 06:53:15 dkelson: done Jun 16 06:53:31 dkelson: ok to change the script name to optware-dropbear? Jun 16 06:54:05 i deleted the nascar app! :) Jun 16 06:54:19 boosh! Jun 16 06:55:07 OK on the name change Jun 16 06:57:51 crap... i think the gps problem might be inherent to mojo / webos... Jun 16 06:57:56 different log messages from different charges: http://pastebin.com/m104950d9 Jun 16 06:58:26 analog1: nooooo, now how are you going to know how Dale Earnhardt Jr is doing?!?!?! Jun 16 06:58:45 sprint navigation has the same problem.. as soon as you go to do anything else on the phone, the gps updates stop until you bring sprint nav back up. Jun 16 06:58:46 Jimmie Johnson is the best damn racer ever Jun 16 06:59:04 haha Bales Jun 16 06:59:09 emkman: Can you grant me write access on the Wiki? (u/n: pEEf) Jun 16 06:59:11 nite all Jun 16 07:04:39 rwhitby: Thanks. Jun 16 07:04:52 EvanPro_, neat. Jun 16 07:05:13 agentsmith, using standardized weakly Jun 16 07:05:31 rwhitby, what time of day is this? Jun 16 07:05:45 sargun, not neat :( that basically renders my app useless.. i want to have it running my entire way to work.. i can't if it esentially stops running when i do something else on my phone. Jun 16 07:06:12 write your app the old fashioned way Jun 16 07:15:54 Sargun: 4:45pm here Jun 16 07:16:52 EvanPro_, write an adapter in Java to go between the two (JS and Java) Jun 16 07:18:43 *sigh* there's gotta be another way. Jun 16 07:19:46 * EvanPro_ runs pandora and gps app at the same time to see if pandora keeps it alive. Jun 16 07:20:45 EvanPro_, there is probably some way to mark your app as keep alive Jun 16 07:21:04 EvanPro_, is the media player app all native? Jun 16 07:22:00 sargun, yeah that's what i'm looking for.. some kind of keepalive... it seems to stay alive a little longer with pandora running, but that might be my imagination... it still loses the gps updates after about 20 - 30 seconds though. Jun 16 07:22:11 EvanPro_, uhm.... Jun 16 07:23:01 in the o'rielly webcast they mentioned apps that run in the background. Jun 16 07:23:39 I find it the funniest thing, us reverse engineering this stuff Jun 16 07:23:48 we're going to write our own book Jun 16 07:24:27 hello? Jun 16 07:24:36 hi Jun 16 07:24:42 http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository has been updated to reference the upstart scripts from http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap Jun 16 07:24:42 you're from northern california Jun 16 07:24:43 haha, yeah... the funny part is how much is being discovered without the sdk.. by the time they release it, we're going to be like "we don't even want your stupid sdk now." Jun 16 07:25:02 haha Jun 16 07:25:51 sargun, me? Jun 16 07:26:20 yeah Jun 16 07:27:01 negative.. from seattle, but live in arizona now. where did you get norcal? Jun 16 07:27:10 EvanPro_, no, not you, haha @ you Jun 16 07:27:17 norcal @ jauderho Jun 16 07:27:39 sargun, oh lol.. i was really confused. haha. Jun 16 07:27:49 Sorry, I'm in an odd mood, I spent nearly an hour crying into my ex-girlfriends arms. Jun 16 07:27:50 meh Jun 16 07:27:54 enh. where does it say that? Jun 16 07:27:59 jauderho, enh? Jun 16 07:28:19 doh I guess the hostname gives it away. Jun 16 07:29:42 I apparently scared him away Jun 16 07:31:55 now he's gonna go cut himself Jun 16 07:31:57 you happy now? Jun 16 07:31:59 HAHA Jun 16 07:33:36 Hrm Jun 16 07:33:39 sargun hi Jun 16 07:33:46 oc80z, 'ello Jun 16 07:33:56 so i had an idea Jun 16 07:34:19 since inadyn is running in the background, updating my pre's ip Jun 16 07:34:38 why not run an apache virtual host pointed at my cameras picture folder, and index it? :P Jun 16 07:35:13 apache might be overkill Jun 16 07:35:21 lighthttpd? Jun 16 07:35:23 think "small" Jun 16 07:35:24 sure. Jun 16 07:35:26 lighttpd Jun 16 07:35:39 jauderho. Jun 16 07:35:44 or even minihttpd :P Jun 16 07:35:44 re Jun 16 07:36:07 * rwhitby bbl Jun 16 07:37:50 bye Jun 16 07:38:10 * oc80z looky for the pictures Jun 16 07:38:27 ah on media Jun 16 07:38:30 ofc :P Jun 16 07:38:46 i like how facebooks all cache there synergy is so elite. Jun 16 07:39:08 I've followed the directions for rooting but can't get past the 10061 error. Win7RC Firewall off Avast off Jun 16 07:41:10 anyone have any suggestions, please? Jun 16 07:42:48 aewilliamsllc sup Jun 16 07:43:00 you installed the drivers? Jun 16 07:43:08 you 32 or 64bit OS? Jun 16 07:43:42 install those drivers as administrator Jun 16 07:44:12 sweet now i figured out how to copy the images onto the usb and edit them Jun 16 07:44:30 anyway to copy and move an entire directory? Jun 16 07:44:53 hmm? Jun 16 07:45:15 can i copy folders basically Jun 16 07:45:16 64 bit Jun 16 07:45:31 aewilliamsllc you install the 64bit driver right? Jun 16 07:45:36 not the one the manual says to run Jun 16 07:45:50 yes...should i do it as administrator? Jun 16 07:45:54 analog1 images, cool. Jun 16 07:46:01 analog1 how did you do it Jun 16 07:46:09 http://predev.wikidot.com/background-editing Jun 16 07:46:19 aewilliamsllc yeah try it as administrator, drill the driver install again Jun 16 07:46:58 aewilliamsllc you installed python64bit too right? so then run that python script and do it up Jun 16 07:47:40 reseat the usb again. Jun 16 07:47:46 analog1 ok ill look Jun 16 07:48:10 analog1 i just installed inadyn + http server, so my photos are 0sec :P (is 80 filtered?) Jun 16 07:48:23 i didn't see a 64 bit python...i'll go look Jun 16 07:48:57 ok try taht may be *shrug* Jun 16 07:49:10 oc80z idk what that means, i'm a newb Jun 16 07:49:10 (thats how i did it on this 64bit arch) Jun 16 07:49:22 analog1 wicked nice wiki entry Jun 16 07:49:35 i'm going to try that too :D Jun 16 07:49:48 the green dialscreen seemed out of place Jun 16 07:50:24 yeah Jun 16 07:50:31 if you keep this up.... Jun 16 07:50:41 you could run analogthemes.org Jun 16 07:50:41 :P Jun 16 07:53:32 wow...still same error Jun 16 07:54:06 i feel stupid because i'm not a total newb at these sort of things Jun 16 07:54:21 don't feel stupid Jun 16 07:54:27 it took me 2 days to root the pre :) Jun 16 07:55:01 the usb mode doesn't matter..right? Jun 16 07:55:07 hmm Jun 16 07:55:08 well Jun 16 07:55:14 reseat the usb cable Jun 16 07:55:18 * Sargun wonders wtf is wrong with his screen "stealer" Jun 16 07:56:46 * EvanPro_ thinks he might be making some progress. Jun 16 07:59:00 aewilliamsllc just out of curiousity, what OS? I just tried for like 20 min in Win7 RC to do it, and it kept failing. Looks like it just worked in an XP VM though. Jun 16 08:00:56 win7RC here Jun 16 08:01:25 Yeah... I used the XP VM that they're offering for free and it worked instantly (turned off FW before trying) Jun 16 08:02:04 * oc80z rebooting analog1, waiting for the new pings to pop up :D Jun 16 08:02:06 nice post :D Jun 16 08:03:11 what two colours make yellow? Jun 16 08:03:17 sargun, i think i've got it. not positive yet.. but it's looking good. Jun 16 08:03:18 i haven't been able to get xp vm to run either because bios doesn't support hardware virtualization even though cpu and mb have it Jun 16 08:04:50 damn.. that sucks. Jun 16 08:05:06 I would imagine virtualbox or vmware with an XP VM would work too Jun 16 08:05:21 nice, i finally have the hang of this Jun 16 08:05:30 i can start skinning my pre Jun 16 08:05:49 sargun, instead of subscribing to the gps location updates, i just did a setinterval to pull the gps coords every 1000ms myself... seems to be keeping the app and data connection alive. Jun 16 08:06:24 I think there is probably a better way to do that.... Jun 16 08:06:39 sargun, i sure hope there is. Jun 16 08:06:46 * oc80z back Jun 16 08:06:52 analog1 cool loosk so much better now! Jun 16 08:07:04 Python is so awesome, but sometimes I hate it. Jun 16 08:07:18 I think I'll start the download for another xp vm and go to bed. try again tomorrow. thx for all the help everyone. Jun 16 08:07:31 aewilliamsllc good luck Jun 16 08:12:06 hrm, i ran the rooter, got all the got/expects, but telnet doesn't appear to be working Jun 16 08:12:21 Sargun hows that chroot thing going Jun 16 08:12:31 oc80z, what do you mean Jun 16 08:12:36 Noctem did you run the novaproxy application and telnet to localhost 8023 Jun 16 08:12:43 Sargun i just found what ppl are talkin about Jun 16 08:13:07 oc80z: hrm, nope Jun 16 08:13:14 .... Jun 16 08:14:48 erm. Jun 16 08:14:51 i dunno! Jun 16 08:16:12 dunno whats it do Jun 16 08:16:48 oh Jun 16 08:16:53 that worked oc80z, thanks heh Jun 16 08:18:58 wtf BGRA. Jun 16 08:19:07 I think palm hates me. Jun 16 08:19:19 whose idea was BGRA? Jun 16 08:19:29 So, guys...every page of the wiki...revamped: http://predev.wikidot.com/ Jun 16 08:19:37 Time to rest. Night all! Jun 16 08:19:41 night Jun 16 08:19:42 ultraBlack, neat. Jun 16 08:20:58 Noctem good. now secure it finish the thing, edit /etc/profile and set your paths to include the bin/sbin/ in /opt and shit, edit /etc/profile to somthing naaaice Jun 16 08:21:23 im going on braek bbl Jun 16 08:21:23 o.O Jun 16 08:21:56 oc80z: rockin, thanks Jun 16 08:31:47 think i can mount the touchstone on the dash in my car, then mount the pre on the touchstone?... and have the touchstone pluged into the usb car charger...? Jun 16 08:32:08 yeah Jun 16 08:32:09 (i don't have the touchstone yet, so i'm unsure how it's suction is) Jun 16 08:32:25 EvanPro_, uhm, as long as it's a flat, horizontal surface Jun 16 08:33:09 hmm, i'll have to try it out when my touchstone gets here. Jun 16 08:33:47 my app seems to work fine as long as my phone's on the charger. Jun 16 08:35:04 * EvanPro_ has work in 5 hours.. going to sleep now. Jun 16 08:35:14 'night, sargun Jun 16 08:36:17 night Jun 16 08:41:46 anyone try mounting a touchstone in a car yet? Jun 16 08:43:40 seriously Jun 16 08:43:43 fucking google it: Jun 16 08:43:44 http://www.everythingpre.com/forum/palm-pre/touchstone-car-charger-simple-how-to-guide-20404.html Jun 16 09:07:54 hrm Jun 16 09:08:23 so, i'm following this to install openssh http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 16 09:08:37 but when i get to this part, initctl start optware-openssh Jun 16 09:08:47 it fails, stating Unknown job Jun 16 09:12:27 damn Sargun, I was just asking if anyone here had been doing it Jun 16 09:12:30 sheesh Jun 16 09:12:46 Sorry Jun 16 09:12:50 I'm in a bad mood Jun 16 09:13:32 its not a tough install....except the part where i have no flat surfaces in my car Jun 16 09:14:41 dunno if i'm in the mood to cut up my dash :o Jun 16 09:15:09 uhm, they have mounting kits Jun 16 09:15:12 for that kind of stuff Jun 16 09:17:06 umm Jun 16 09:17:09 is google down? Jun 16 09:17:16 GOOGLE IS DOWN Jun 16 09:17:42 :) Jun 16 09:19:37 ugh, i should go to bed Jun 16 09:19:49 i'll deal w/ the openssh failure later Jun 16 09:23:15 Which part of Google? Seems to be working fine for me... Jun 16 09:33:35 workin fine now Jun 16 09:33:54 all if it was down for a sec Jun 16 09:36:52 network weather Jun 16 09:40:05 * oc80z back Jun 16 09:40:06 it likely matches the weather we've been having here in The valley (and in San Luis Obispo)... Jun 16 09:40:36 "it" being the "network weather" Jun 16 09:40:56 I don Jun 16 09:41:04 I don't think network weather works like that Jun 16 09:42:41 wouldn't doubt it in this case... And it wouldn't surprise me. Jun 16 09:43:02 Was supposed to be 73F, only made it to 65F with clouds and sprinkles........ Jun 16 09:46:03 Of course, I'm only being facetious. But now that I have said it, all hell will likely break loose and it will be 80F+ tomorrow... Jun 16 09:54:30 fuck Jun 16 09:54:39 yes? Jun 16 09:54:56 i have not been successful in changing the icons Jun 16 09:55:38 it's like, i copy the images onto my usb, then drag those onto my computer and edit them, but no matter what if i put them back onto the usb and back onto the phone the icons revert back to the original Jun 16 09:56:05 ah, can't help you there Jun 16 09:56:10 I'm only lurking Jun 16 09:56:13 i changed the background of the dial pad with ease Jun 16 10:09:49 g' morning Jun 16 10:11:24 is google down for u guys? Jun 16 10:13:57 crash_pr, http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/google.com Jun 16 10:15:10 shame isdownforeveryoneorjustmedownforeveryoneorjustme.com doesn't work anymore :( Jun 16 10:15:20 thx it says is up Jun 16 10:15:37 but it isnt for me.... Jun 16 10:16:14 maybe it is caused by the "routing problems" in iran :P Jun 16 10:16:19 i can ping google Jun 16 10:17:12 can you use netcat on port 80? Jun 16 10:18:44 strange ip address works Jun 16 10:19:11 hmm? Jun 16 10:19:11 but im resolving fine Jun 16 10:19:28 http://74.125.127.100/ Jun 16 10:19:32 HOW-ABOUT-A-NICE-GAME-OF-CHESS.MIT.EDU Jun 16 10:22:20 replies Jun 16 10:22:55 yeah Jun 16 10:23:09 18.152.0.130 Jun 16 10:23:10 :P Jun 16 10:25:10 http://dracsearch.com/ is up Jun 16 10:27:06 ok Jun 16 10:30:17 finally back Jun 16 10:30:17 ugh Jun 16 10:30:18 A GUI front end for rTorrent designed for the iPhone/iPod Touch. It's built using PHP, SQLite and uses XML-RPC to communicate with rTorrent running on a server. Jun 16 10:30:22 ill work on that asap Jun 16 10:30:28 we def needz0r that Jun 16 10:36:44 http://www.davidraso.com/utorrent-iphone/ Jun 16 10:36:45 u know? Jun 16 10:38:58 need that by tonight right Jun 16 10:39:00 amirite Jun 16 10:39:30 lol Jun 16 10:39:41 i think i found a way to make a webcam heh Jun 16 10:40:07 yea def Jun 16 10:40:45 wicked simple Jun 16 10:40:58 video conf is possible Jun 16 10:42:10 i thought the camera was on the back of the phone o_O Jun 16 10:43:14 the transmission web interface works on the pre browser Jun 16 10:46:36 hrmz Jun 16 10:46:47 point me somewhere Jun 16 10:47:34 http://www.transmissionbt.com/ Jun 16 10:47:43 heh Jun 16 10:49:04 can't add a new torrent but you can pause/resume/remove and check the progress Jun 16 10:49:28 ok Jun 16 10:50:02 ill catch up Jun 16 10:50:39 theres no way to save data from the web browser as of now right Jun 16 10:51:00 ie, save it to media, crontab scp *.torrent , Jun 16 10:52:10 hm Jun 16 10:52:35 well may be we should be able to search/get for when we get home :) Jun 16 10:53:28 i was never a big fan of btrans. Jun 16 10:54:09 i haven't tried this on the phone yet to see how well it works http://deluge-torrent.org/ Jun 16 10:54:32 but it has a web UI too Jun 16 10:54:56 if it just had a way to paste a URL in a box and then you could queue it up from the phone. heh Jun 16 10:57:49 right Jun 16 10:58:06 made me think immediatly how would filetype such as pdf be activated Jun 16 10:58:54 why not clone torrent to be activated to writebin , and scp Jun 16 10:59:42 :( not getting ad hoc working hrm Jun 16 11:00:16 LOL Jun 16 11:00:17 Yeah Jun 16 11:00:45 ADHOC would be nice right? Jun 16 11:00:48 HEH Jun 16 11:00:52 who was helping me yesterday? Jun 16 11:00:58 i got some ad hoc cli instructions Jun 16 11:01:02 using iwconfig Jun 16 11:01:22 hi all Jun 16 11:01:24 :D Jun 16 11:01:32 ne/ways Jun 16 11:01:37 summatusmentis in the house! Jun 16 11:01:50 hi oc80z :) Jun 16 11:02:03 wait think i might be on the network Jun 16 11:02:05 its almost quittin time... Jun 16 11:02:07 :D Jun 16 11:02:29 just not internet which is fine Jun 16 11:02:36 for now Jun 16 11:02:48 blau-mikeDG good luck, post what you god Jun 16 11:02:49 oh dur i know why i have mac address crap on my ad hoc Jun 16 11:03:06 summatusmentis workin on anything? just gettin up? Jun 16 11:03:06 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Adhoc Jun 16 11:03:12 eek Jun 16 11:03:17 i followed that cept for the networkmanager stop Jun 16 11:03:25 mmm Jun 16 11:03:27 we dont use NM Jun 16 11:03:39 oh so thats why it worked :) Jun 16 11:04:00 whats the equivalent of nslookup on our phones? Jun 16 11:04:08 iwconfig Jun 16 11:04:09 ifconfig Jun 16 11:04:15 oc80z: just getting up, I could've been sleeping still Jun 16 11:04:16 oh Jun 16 11:04:28 blau-mikeDG why do you have to query a dns server? Jun 16 11:04:48 blau-mikeDG have you looked at the ipkg-opt sytem? Jun 16 11:04:49 oc: to easily debug if/why i dont have an internet connection via my ad hoc network Jun 16 11:05:14 blau-mikeDG you can do it Jun 16 11:05:57 well Jun 16 11:06:12 Hamzifer Jun 16 11:06:28 like i was saying about the video conferencing Jun 16 11:06:38 well thats not a priority now anyway, i just want to be able to run an adhoc network between my g1, pre, and laptop :) Jun 16 11:06:44 blau-mikeDG: host + dig are both cli dns resolvers in linux, dunno if the pre has either Jun 16 11:07:01 its so possible Jun 16 11:07:02 and afaik, adhoc wifi is between 2 clients only. if you want a 3rd in the mix, you need one acting as an AP Jun 16 11:07:16 since WebcamXP will poll mounts/ftp for *.jpg updates Jun 16 11:07:34 so you can take a pic every 5s Jun 16 11:07:35 hamz: shrug, my laptop and phone are connected to my g1 Jun 16 11:07:42 and its still classified as ad hoc Jun 16 11:07:45 simultaneously? Jun 16 11:07:49 yup Jun 16 11:07:55 i eat my hat Jun 16 11:07:59 yeah thats mesh Jun 16 11:08:05 im sftp'ing to my pre Jun 16 11:08:15 sftp? Jun 16 11:08:20 no scp? Jun 16 11:08:20 :P Jun 16 11:08:33 think of more things to do Jun 16 11:08:42 once i get going. Jun 16 11:08:49 im fixing a bug in carded messaging hopefully now Jun 16 11:08:49 im gone Jun 16 11:10:08 yesterday i started toying around with the ripple effect to get a full screen flash when you press the screen Jun 16 11:11:20 ah HEH Jun 16 11:11:52 like whoa Jun 16 11:13:23 * w3rd humps #webos-internals Jun 16 11:14:41 hola! is there a terminal app for the pre? Jun 16 11:14:46 blau-mikeDG: what do you mean? Jun 16 11:14:50 mickdouglas: nope, not yet Jun 16 11:15:28 summatu...: sigh. OK thanks Jun 16 11:15:38 mickdouglas: SDK isn't publically available, one. Two, no one has figured out how to pass commands from the javascript layer to the terminal itself Jun 16 11:15:54 or rather, how to execute the commands as given to the GUI Jun 16 11:16:11 is it ok non suid can reboot/halt Jun 16 11:16:16 right... there's a communication gap Jun 16 11:16:24 handing off the stuffs doesnt work Jun 16 11:16:26 yet Jun 16 11:16:34 yeah Jun 16 11:16:36 so there's a desire, no one has done it yet :) Jun 16 11:16:41 huge desire Jun 16 11:16:51 a foaming from the mouth desire Jun 16 11:16:54 hehe j/p Jun 16 11:17:10 this week on the PaulDotCom podcast I'll spend a few min and chat about the pre hacking Jun 16 11:17:15 * oc80z rebootin w/ webos-indyn script in hopes Jun 16 11:17:24 nioice Jun 16 11:17:39 mickdouglas: cool Jun 16 11:17:40 well I needs me some terminal Jun 16 11:17:56 then i can tshark and nmap and all other security goon stuff Jun 16 11:17:58 you are using a computer now, right? Jun 16 11:18:05 yeah on my mac Jun 16 11:18:07 its connected to teh internet? Jun 16 11:18:17 the innernet is a series of tubes Jun 16 11:18:23 that it is Jun 16 11:18:32 oc80z: you alright there dude? Jun 16 11:18:36 :] Jun 16 11:18:43 mick! just nmap off your mac Jun 16 11:19:06 well i can do all those commands off my mac or my linux tablet Jun 16 11:19:08 but! Jun 16 11:19:21 i really *need* this for the pen test work Jun 16 11:19:23 but you shouldn't have to carry them with you Jun 16 11:19:27 I get it :) Jun 16 11:19:33 folks goofing off with a phone get no attention Jun 16 11:19:57 whip out a notebook in say a lobby and you get some glances Jun 16 11:20:11 forget the nmap use hping3 Jun 16 11:20:29 i <3 hping Jun 16 11:20:31 but Jun 16 11:20:31 depending on how urgent this is, you might consider something else, but I expect the Pre will get a terminal as soon as someone figures out how Jun 16 11:20:37 hehe ur the man now micky Jun 16 11:20:49 they are different tools and fill different roles Jun 16 11:20:54 nmap = shotgun Jun 16 11:21:00 hping = sniper rifle Jun 16 11:21:27 i typically like nmap for class C cidr address sweeps and such Jun 16 11:21:29 bblll Jun 16 11:21:44 then hping the open/filtered ports Jun 16 11:22:35 so while I have Pre ninjas here... Jun 16 11:22:46 what driver does the wifi chip use? Jun 16 11:22:55 * mickdouglas trying to get kismet running on pre Jun 16 11:23:04 im out! Jun 16 11:23:43 mickdouglas: I'm not sure, no device here :( Stick around, someone probably knows Jun 16 11:23:52 cya oc80z Jun 16 11:24:11 summatusmentis: danke Jun 16 11:24:52 ok all final question Jun 16 11:25:07 how do I remove a web page that I sent to the launcher? Jun 16 11:25:29 can it be done? Jun 16 11:26:12 hey guys, anyideas how a 960x960 ripple effect might affect performance? Jun 16 11:27:36 blau-mikeDG: you'll have to wait a bit for the ripples... Jun 16 11:28:12 blau-mikeDG: but ripple is just a display hack... Jun 16 11:28:34 blau-mikeDG: why not give it a whirl & tell us how it goes? ;-) Jun 16 11:28:43 i did Jun 16 11:29:03 blau-mikeDG: and? Jun 16 11:29:10 seems to work fine Jun 16 11:29:36 cool. doesn't it make it hard to determine if you're pressing in the right area tho? Jun 16 11:30:14 ah crud. running late1 Jun 16 11:30:17 err Jun 16 11:30:19 late! Jun 16 11:30:23 tah Jun 16 11:32:27 mick, i have a smallerred dot in the middle now Jun 16 11:33:35 * rwhitby returns Jun 16 11:34:10 ultraBlack: nice work on the wiki Jun 16 11:39:26 the wiki rules :) Jun 16 11:46:26 hey guys Jun 16 11:46:36 so i hit a usability issue with popping new cards Jun 16 11:46:39 in messagingn Jun 16 11:46:53 the read flag does not get cleared until you pop the card Jun 16 11:47:08 but if i clear it when the card is created, then you might not really actually read the new messages Jun 16 11:56:24 hmm Jun 16 12:14:46 think im gonna buy a 15" powerbook Jun 16 12:14:47 err macbook Jun 16 12:14:53 and i meant 13" Jun 16 12:14:53 lol Jun 16 12:24:51 i <3 my 13" macbook Jun 16 12:25:11 13" mbp you mean - or the 13" white mb ? Jun 16 12:25:22 the old macbook aluminum Jun 16 12:25:28 ah Jun 16 12:25:29 previous generation Jun 16 12:26:40 is there any place where "cough" interesting disscussion about exciting features are being disscussed? Jun 16 12:28:47 what types of exciting features would you like to discuss ? Jun 16 12:30:14 oh you know the kind the wiki may have not..... decided to pursue Jun 16 12:30:35 deltron: yap the alu macbooks are nice Jun 16 12:30:57 this is strictly hypothetical Jun 16 12:30:59 joesmith: see the alternate channel listed in the topic of this channel Jun 16 12:31:07 so far the wiki doesn't have much information about novacom (including both usbl and pmux), bootie, what novacomd is actually doing - etc Jun 16 12:31:31 it also doesn't have a breakdown of the software architecture that palm uses .. information on luna Jun 16 12:31:39 no mention of dbus Jun 16 12:31:41 :( Jun 16 12:31:43 I want the new macbook pro Jun 16 12:32:29 since there this is a legit channel, is there an unlegit channel? Jun 16 12:32:50 joesmith: have you read the topic of this channel? Jun 16 12:32:55 yes Jun 16 12:32:59 is that it? Jun 16 12:33:19 it tells you the channel to go to if you don't want to follow the policy of this channel. Jun 16 12:33:31 oh goody Jun 16 12:33:33 thanks Jun 16 12:34:01 joesmith: no probs - have fun. Jun 16 12:57:33 woot Jun 16 12:57:46 woot what? Jun 16 12:58:03 back HOME! Jun 16 12:58:10 shoes OFF-MODE Jun 16 12:59:24 oh chea Jun 16 13:04:46 woot Jun 16 13:17:44 how would you classify inadyn [ ddns client ] Jun 16 13:17:59 i got to post this and pass out Jun 16 13:23:10 Interesting Jun 16 13:24:16 inadyn obv updates wifi, wont stick with the ppp (which could be firewalled) Jun 16 13:42:01 working on tagging apps Jun 16 13:42:10 not the way i really wanted but as a proof of concept Jun 16 13:42:23 hope it works otherwise i feel like luna will bootloop Jun 16 13:42:50 semi worked! Jun 16 13:42:54 tweet tweet! Jun 16 13:43:43 what do you mean tagging apps? Jun 16 13:44:05 so you can have them respond to multiple universal search queries Jun 16 13:44:24 like photos responds to photos, gallery, pictures Jun 16 13:44:28 gotcha Jun 16 13:44:39 Spaz and Tweed both respond to twitter Jun 16 13:44:42 or twit Jun 16 13:44:49 so how did it "semi" work out? Jun 16 13:45:14 i put the code in the wrong spot Jun 16 13:45:29 its adding spaz once for each letter of twitter Jun 16 13:45:31 lol Jun 16 13:45:35 haha Jun 16 13:45:44 does anyone know how to turn off the broadcast messages from powerd ? Jun 16 13:46:28 * nullitydown is delighted to finally be among those rooting/modding/developing phones. Jun 16 13:47:07 Gadfly, chmod -x /usr/bin/wall Jun 16 13:47:43 dreadchicken: I suppose that's one way of doing it Jun 16 13:48:02 dreadchicken: doesn't that kill all messages if he was just wanting to stop seeing the powerd Jun 16 13:48:18 yes it does, it will kill all wall messages. Jun 16 13:48:30 djk: that's ok, I don't need wall messages Jun 16 13:49:00 Do you guys know why I can't chmod 777 /media/internal ? Jun 16 13:49:06 then that works ;-) Jun 16 13:49:16 or a subdirectory within it? Jun 16 13:49:43 because it's a fat32 volume? Jun 16 13:50:16 Is there a newbie channel on this server so my questions (on basic topics that i can't locate in the wiki) won't clutter up the big kids' irc log? Jun 16 13:51:40 if not, perhaps one should be created? Jun 16 13:51:40 mike_wx: ah, yes, I'll have to use the umask mount option Jun 16 13:51:58 nullitydown: maybe the #webos, #palm, #palmhelp channels would work for you Jun 16 13:52:12 nullitydown, what types of questions are they really ? Jun 16 13:52:16 thanks djk Jun 16 13:52:54 if they're about the internal working of webos - then this channel is still the place to be .. but if it's about general usage without getting into details, the other channels are probably better suited Jun 16 13:52:56 oh, silly things. for instance, i'm running novaproxy and telnetted to localhost, but using xp's telnet i'm getting local echo of all characters... feel like i'm buzzed and seeing double. (: Jun 16 13:53:24 youneed to use a raw mode telnet client, wxp's telnet won'twork Jun 16 13:53:27 get putty Jun 16 13:53:37 will do, thanks mike! Jun 16 13:53:41 np Jun 16 13:54:16 nullitydown: you'll need puTTY for ssh to secure ;-) Jun 16 13:55:01 Anyone have insight on the possibility of Flash and/or Java working the Pre? Jun 16 13:55:06 by trade, one of my titles is technical writer. signing up for the wiki right now. Will i need to request special permissions to be able to add to the wiki notes on newbie concerns? Jun 16 13:57:37 djk, i believe i read that java is on the pre and that flash will be officially supported before year's end. sorry if this is basic info of which you were already aware. Jun 16 13:58:35 nullitydown: javascript is but I don't think java is or it isn't working for me Jun 16 13:59:03 wsup people Jun 16 13:59:09 it is my understanding javascript yes java no Jun 16 13:59:15 java is already supports Jun 16 13:59:19 hey alanta Jun 16 13:59:29 I saw you leave the other channel Jun 16 13:59:29 Java is active on the phone Jun 16 13:59:37 yea no one was talking Jun 16 13:59:48 its dead atm Jun 16 14:00:41 atlanta: if java is active on the phone then something is missing for integration with the browser Jun 16 14:00:56 when yea its not a plugin within the browser Jun 16 14:01:06 but far as lower level programming on the pre it is Jun 16 14:01:09 thats what I ment Jun 16 14:01:13 one of the apps use java Jun 16 14:01:23 i believe connect4 or something Jun 16 14:01:43 I really wish the browser had java Jun 16 14:01:52 djk, there is a java virtual machine running - but not exposed Jun 16 14:01:58 there u go Jun 16 14:02:00 Ah so is it possible to get it plugged in Jun 16 14:02:08 then I could play chess :) Jun 16 14:02:12 and there is actually a folder for Jun 16 14:02:18 browser plugins Jun 16 14:02:26 but im not familiar with webkit to make anything Jun 16 14:02:35 djk, i don't think so ... but playing chess using javascript would probably be easier Jun 16 14:03:00 I hope someone makes a plugin for it Jun 16 14:03:17 I have to keep up with my chess hommies Jun 16 14:03:26 whoa Jun 16 14:03:28 java plugin and flash would make for smoother browsing. I would love to be able to stream my SiriusXM Jun 16 14:03:28 libupnp Jun 16 14:03:29 :D Jun 16 14:03:39 oh yeah! Jun 16 14:03:44 yeah right Jun 16 14:03:51 flash in web browser gonna suck Jun 16 14:04:21 I don't like flash personally but all the streaming radio site seem to like it Jun 16 14:04:28 alanta could you go back to the other channel Jun 16 14:04:29 true Jun 16 14:04:51 and the video ones Jun 16 14:04:53 maybe they will move to using the audio tag in html5 when it's better supported ? Jun 16 14:05:21 Heres a javascript chess game Jun 16 14:05:25 havent tried it on the phone yet Jun 16 14:05:25 http://javascript.internet.com/games/javascript-chess-with-cpu-oppo.html Jun 16 14:05:52 hey joe Jun 16 14:05:54 give me a second Jun 16 14:06:02 my browser made to many connectiosn ther Jun 16 14:06:09 thats fine Jun 16 14:06:11 thx Jun 16 14:14:07 How can I play audio from the commandline? mpg123 is looking for oss, what sound device should I specify? /dev/snd/pcmC0D0c ? Jun 16 14:14:46 pulse audio will play it .. Jun 16 14:14:52 aplay or pplay or something ? Jun 16 14:15:06 aplay Jun 16 14:15:08 aplay Jun 16 14:15:49 sigh Jun 16 14:15:52 anyone help me with a problem following the dropbear root instructions on the wiki. I'm getting an error on step 15a Jun 16 14:15:53 dropbear == dropdead Jun 16 14:15:54 :P Jun 16 14:16:13 lol Jun 16 14:17:02 I think the steps are missing a chmod on optware-dropbear after it's downloaded in step 13a Jun 16 14:17:46 im looking Jun 16 14:18:04 can someone help me out really quick? I rooted the pre, and I got all teh way to step 15, but it said "unknown job: optware-dropbear" when I run that command Jun 16 14:18:07 I'm sooooooooooo close Jun 16 14:18:18 lol palmkernel is seeing the same issue :) Jun 16 14:18:23 mike_w may be not. i just wrote my own and its runing on startup :D Jun 16 14:18:42 haha so it's not just me... Jun 16 14:18:42 oc80z: yes but step 15b where it has you start it manually failes Jun 16 14:18:51 er step 15a sorry Jun 16 14:19:02 root@castle:/etc/event.d# initctl start optware-dropbear Jun 16 14:19:02 initctl: (00756/285653076) Unknown job: optware-dropbear Jun 16 14:19:11 yep that's what I'm getting Jun 16 14:19:12 thats a typo Jun 16 14:19:20 we didnet install openssh Jun 16 14:19:25 that would take forever to regenerate keys Jun 16 14:19:30 we installed dropbear, no? Jun 16 14:19:43 i installed dropbear yes Jun 16 14:19:44 I installed both, because I was having trouble with dropbear Jun 16 14:19:45 oh man the beginning method is much easier lol Jun 16 14:19:51 you chose which Jun 16 14:19:58 dropbear may be exploitable Jun 16 14:19:59 who me Jun 16 14:20:00 ? Jun 16 14:20:01 yes, i choose dropbear Jun 16 14:20:02 cat optware-dropbear # or optware-openssh Jun 16 14:20:06 so yeah Jun 16 14:20:13 what is dropbear? Jun 16 14:20:15 just use telnet lmfao Jun 16 14:20:17 start dropbear Jun 16 14:20:18 ssh srever Jun 16 14:20:26 joesmith, lightweight ssh daemon Jun 16 14:20:50 mike_w so initctl start optware-dropbear Jun 16 14:21:00 cmon now Jun 16 14:21:05 i say use telnet with a nice iptable line Jun 16 14:21:10 will do justice Jun 16 14:21:12 yes. thats' what i'm telling you. initctl start optware-dropbear doesn't work. Jun 16 14:21:21 initctl: (00885/514534912) Unknown job: optware-dropbear Jun 16 14:21:28 same thing for me Jun 16 14:21:35 ok Jun 16 14:21:46 what dir are you in? pwd Jun 16 14:21:54 ls *dropbear Jun 16 14:21:56 /etc/event.d Jun 16 14:21:58 its' there Jun 16 14:21:59 event.d Jun 16 14:22:26 so Jun 16 14:22:42 is it a chmod? Jun 16 14:22:51 could someone explain a scenerio where INADYN would be useful? Jun 16 14:22:59 root@castle:/etc/event.d# ls -la optware-dropbear Jun 16 14:22:59 -rw-r-xr-x 1 root root 10438 Jun 16 09:13 optware-dropbear Jun 16 14:23:45 figured it out Jun 16 14:23:48 just type in start dropbear Jun 16 14:23:53 not start opware-dropbear Jun 16 14:23:56 heh Jun 16 14:24:04 lol Jun 16 14:24:19 (root@pre)-> Jun 16 14:24:19 (/etc/event.d)--> # ls *bear Jun 16 14:24:19 dropbear Jun 16 14:24:31 Who would be interested in a forward text message option Jun 16 14:24:38 joesmith: so you can scp files over w/o messing with USB mounting. Jun 16 14:25:17 joesmith you could sync folders when you get to your homewifi w/o plugging in the usb. Jun 16 14:25:28 or when you arent* rather Jun 16 14:25:31 ty I got it Jun 16 14:25:42 does the hardware in the pre support video if the app was created? Jun 16 14:25:55 @oc80z with dropbear you can just scp in ? Jun 16 14:25:55 video recording Jun 16 14:25:55 hmm I thought that would do it... but I still cant SSH into it Jun 16 14:26:03 i thought u needed another daemon program or something Jun 16 14:26:07 it times out Jun 16 14:26:08 palmkernel port 222 Jun 16 14:26:11 I did Jun 16 14:26:20 restart Jun 16 14:26:22 your device Jun 16 14:26:22 is the service running yet Jun 16 14:26:23 ssh -p 222 (myuser)@(myipaddress) Jun 16 14:26:28 yea Jun 16 14:26:34 I didn't restart the device, but it said the service it running Jun 16 14:26:46 running, process 2196 Jun 16 14:26:50 ok Jun 16 14:26:56 can you locally ssh localhost -p 222 Jun 16 14:27:04 lemme try Jun 16 14:27:07 ..is it a route issue? Jun 16 14:27:16 anyone else stuck? Jun 16 14:27:27 i'm restarting atm to test Jun 16 14:27:34 ok Jun 16 14:27:46 after, mess with your /etc/profile Jun 16 14:27:51 when I type ssh into the terminal that's logged into the pre it says not found Jun 16 14:28:04 i think ill be messin witht he wifi in a bit Jun 16 14:28:05 dbclient Jun 16 14:28:17 if im logged into ssh ill keep the wifi on :P Jun 16 14:28:56 i'll try restarting the phone, is there a way to check if the process is running after I start the phone back up? Jun 16 14:30:34 er yea Jun 16 14:30:43 ps -aux | grep bear Jun 16 14:30:58 managed to successfull make both of my phones lose battery while charging Jun 16 14:31:08 oc80z: no it did not work Jun 16 14:31:13 go go ad hoc evdo and 3g Jun 16 14:31:21 not answering wifi-based ssh requests on 222 Jun 16 14:31:22 HEH Jun 16 14:31:31 blau thats what i like to hear Jun 16 14:31:47 mike_w u ran the iptables right, can u ssh locally Jun 16 14:31:53 like Jun 16 14:31:57 u in telnet? Jun 16 14:32:02 er.. novaproxy? Jun 16 14:32:10 i'm in novaproxy Jun 16 14:32:18 get on the device and ssh -p 222 localhost Jun 16 14:32:19 blau-mikeDG: I've done that when charging over usb, but not over wall power Jun 16 14:32:29 ssh not found Jun 16 14:32:45 mike_w, ps aux | grep ssh Jun 16 14:32:48 does anything come up? Jun 16 14:33:01 dropbear ssh client is called dbclient i thoght Jun 16 14:33:10 and the symbolic link wasn't created for ssh on install Jun 16 14:33:12 mike_wx* Jun 16 14:33:14 i didn't think ssh client came with dropbear Jun 16 14:33:21 goatslacker: only the grep command Jun 16 14:33:25 process is running, however I still can not ssh into it Jun 16 14:33:29 root 1680 0.0 0.2 2692 536 pts/0 R<+ 09:33 0:00 grep ssh Jun 16 14:33:30 operation just times out Jun 16 14:33:40 palmkernel, did you change your iptables ? Jun 16 14:33:41 mike_wx, looks like dropbear isn't running Jun 16 14:34:00 if it wasn't a step on the wiki then I didn't Jun 16 14:34:09 right, that was the problem i was trying to fix earlier. step 15a fails Jun 16 14:34:12 but I have the same output as mike_wx so maybe mine isn't running either Jun 16 14:34:15 mike_wx, Jun 16 14:34:19 if it can't be started manually it's not going to start automatically Jun 16 14:34:19 initctl start optware-dropbear Jun 16 14:34:36 oh i see. Jun 16 14:34:38 goatslacker: initctl: (00367/209399414) Unknown job: optware-dropbear just like before Jun 16 14:34:49 it's in the script you downloadded Jun 16 14:35:00 but if that script didn't work .. then you never did it Jun 16 14:35:05 optware-openssh is downloaded Jun 16 14:35:16 heh Jun 16 14:35:18 I'm literally at the same spot mike_wx is at Jun 16 14:35:18 wait wait Jun 16 14:35:28 * mike_wx thinks the wiki has bad info Jun 16 14:35:35 palmkernel, mike_wx ps aux | grep dropbear ?? Jun 16 14:35:36 but if I type initctl start dropbear instead of initctl start optware-dropbear, it looks to start Jun 16 14:35:41 you should see root 1178 0.0 0.2 1988 672 ? Ss 07:27 0:00 /opt/sbin/dropbear -g -F -p 222 Jun 16 14:35:43 i installed openssh. everything works for me. Jun 16 14:35:50 root 1721 0.0 0.2 2692 532 pts/0 S<+ 09:35 0:00 grep dropbear Jun 16 14:35:52 goatslacker hows the boot time OK? Jun 16 14:36:01 oc80z, boot time is fine. Jun 16 14:36:01 ok, so how do I undo the dropbear crap and get openssh on here :) Jun 16 14:36:03 better safe than sorry Jun 16 14:36:04 boot time takes forever Jun 16 14:36:06 yeah Jun 16 14:36:07 heh Jun 16 14:36:13 same, boot time is LONG Jun 16 14:36:13 atlanta: lies Jun 16 14:36:19 for openssh? Jun 16 14:36:20 palmkernel, optware-dropware includes a startup script Jun 16 14:36:21 i swear its the longest booting phnoe ever Jun 16 14:36:22 you used the openssh script (optware-openssh) and installed dropbear? Jun 16 14:36:25 what? Jun 16 14:36:33 oh the phone takes forever to boot with or without openssh Jun 16 14:36:35 booting the phone Jun 16 14:36:36 ? Jun 16 14:36:38 BOTH Jun 16 14:36:38 ur booting a small computer the size of your hand Jun 16 14:36:43 having openssh installed won't make much of a difference. Jun 16 14:36:46 do you ahve one oc Jun 16 14:36:47 ? Jun 16 14:36:47 heh Jun 16 14:36:52 have** Jun 16 14:36:57 y3z i hav++ Jun 16 14:37:02 mike_wz i'm not sure but ipkg may have an uninstall feature Jun 16 14:37:05 no it takes forever with or with ssh Jun 16 14:37:19 ipkg remove packname Jun 16 14:37:23 ipkg-opt remove Jun 16 14:37:24 the long boot time is pretty terrible .. we have a 30 second constraint on our systems, and they're 10x more complicated than this phone Jun 16 14:37:25 when I use the wget to get dropbear it looks like it downloads but I dont see it 'install' Jun 16 14:37:36 but the directories look to be there Jun 16 14:37:40 /opt/bin/ipkg-opt Jun 16 14:37:46 we just need to go openssh and drop the dropbear. Jun 16 14:37:55 or vice-versa Jun 16 14:37:58 lol dropbear is good, don't get me wrong. Jun 16 14:38:14 ./opt/bin/ipkg-opt remove dropbear ;p Jun 16 14:38:14 i'm used to openssh config files. so i went that route Jun 16 14:38:15 i'm fine with dropbear, i can use the memory. Jun 16 14:38:29 i'd be fine with dropbear it it worked Jun 16 14:38:31 dropbear can scp, right? Jun 16 14:38:35 right? Jun 16 14:38:46 ftp is all i really want Jun 16 14:38:47 heh Jun 16 14:38:54 i'm happy with novaproxy for terminal Jun 16 14:38:54 which is easier to install dropbear or openssh Jun 16 14:38:56 ill test it Jun 16 14:39:00 mike_wx, scp is the way to go Jun 16 14:39:47 I am having the same problem with openssh Jun 16 14:39:47 Be back Jun 16 14:39:48 soon Jun 16 14:39:56 oh well i gotta work for a bit. i'll play with this again in a while Jun 16 14:39:59 I downloaded it but I cant start it Jun 16 14:40:08 it just says unknown job Jun 16 14:40:16 um Jun 16 14:40:24 May I ask an idiotic/newbie question? Jun 16 14:40:30 sure RIck Jun 16 14:40:31 lol Jun 16 14:40:33 dont mind the server i am scp'ing from, its Ubuntu64, named palmpre heh same user accounts Jun 16 14:40:36 box@palmpre:~$ scp -P 222 ircii-pana-1.1-final.tar.gz box@castle:~ Jun 16 14:40:36 box@castle's password: Jun 16 14:40:36 ircii-pana-1.1-final.tar.gz 100% 2473KB 494.6KB/s 00:05 Jun 16 14:40:41 someone should cehck the wiki though, because as written it doesn't work Jun 16 14:40:58 thats from Ubuntu x64 to PalmPre Jun 16 14:41:08 using Jun 16 14:41:10 scp Jun 16 14:41:10 ? Jun 16 14:41:14 ops Jun 16 14:41:16 are there known memory leak issues in webos? After a couple of days, I can't seem to open more than one card at a time without the "Close something" warning. Reboot seems to fix that. Jun 16 14:41:16 i see it Jun 16 14:41:23 100% 24473KB 1.2MB/s 00:02 Jun 16 14:41:25 HEH Jun 16 14:41:37 be back Jun 16 14:41:38 i don't think anyone here has had webos up for more than a day with all the rebooting we've been doing Jun 16 14:42:00 lol Jun 16 14:42:01 Rick_ welcome Jun 16 14:42:03 initctl -d .. what does that do ? Jun 16 14:42:06 Rick_ have you installed Jun 16 14:42:08 hehe, and _that_ I understand. But damn, it's the slowest booting phone I've ever owned. Jun 16 14:42:19 -d? Jun 16 14:42:23 dunno did u do --help Jun 16 14:42:25 so basically I'm totally lost... is there a second command I should be running after I wget openssh or dropbear to install it? Jun 16 14:42:26 Rick_: Baylink in the palmhelp channel has confirmed a couple "semi-known" memory leaks Jun 16 14:42:28 to display services ? Jun 16 14:42:47 palmkernel, make sure to kill the service after it installs. Jun 16 14:42:48 stop w/ the boot talk Jun 16 14:42:59 it snot a nokia that place snake Jun 16 14:42:59 thanks, I'll switch to there. Back here when I get back to software development. Jun 16 14:43:08 if I ls the etc/event.d dir, I can see the dropbear and openssh files Jun 16 14:43:28 * dreadchicken bbl Jun 16 14:43:42 palmkernel, what does the output of 'initctl -d' show ? or does it error ? Jun 16 14:44:14 i just realized i never did step 13b Jun 16 14:44:16 invalid option -d Jun 16 14:44:53 actually nvm i did. wiki changed Jun 16 14:45:13 oh, it's initctl list Jun 16 14:46:07 does it come up in your list of services available to you ? Jun 16 14:46:11 its a really long list Jun 16 14:46:13 yeah Jun 16 14:46:29 heh Jun 16 14:46:30 optware openssh and dropbear are both not in there Jun 16 14:46:41 u sure about that palmkernel Jun 16 14:46:45 dropbear it there, but not optware-dropbear Jun 16 14:46:52 *is Jun 16 14:46:52 riight Jun 16 14:47:01 this is the worst Jun 16 14:47:16 HEH Jun 16 14:47:41 be back in a minute, getting a drink Jun 16 14:47:44 so many updates neede Jun 16 14:47:51 is anyone keeping track of the wiki errors? Jun 16 14:47:52 is there a dropbear in your ls -l of /etc/event.d ? Jun 16 14:48:04 oc80z, i thought you were handling the updates Jun 16 14:48:22 lulz Jun 16 14:48:28 what was the first on 13a? Jun 16 14:49:37 ueah if I ls-l that directory they are all there Jun 16 14:49:52 palmkernel, are there any permission differences between the files ? Jun 16 14:50:07 nope, root on everything Jun 16 14:50:23 heh Jun 16 14:50:45 * oc80z wanders off to take some drugs Jun 16 14:51:03 well, actually it is -rw-r--r-- Jun 16 14:51:14 chmod 755 that file plz Jun 16 14:51:16 instead of most stuff being -rwxr-xr-x Jun 16 14:51:18 then initctl list Jun 16 14:51:30 and see if the optware-dropbear is listed Jun 16 14:51:45 did you ipkg-opt install it or ipkg-opt install it? Jun 16 14:51:53 ^ ipkg-opt vs. ipkg Jun 16 14:52:14 nope not listed Jun 16 14:52:15 it shouldn't matter, but confused as ell. Jun 16 14:52:31 ad I dont remember installing it, that wasn't in the guide. it just had me wget it Jun 16 14:52:53 palmkernel, can you initctl start optware-dropbear now ? Jun 16 14:53:07 nope Jun 16 14:53:21 and optware-dropbear script is 755 ? Jun 16 14:53:54 what do you mean? I did the chmod 755 opware-dropbear command but how do I check Jun 16 14:54:00 ls -la Jun 16 14:54:10 ls -lta | grep bear Jun 16 14:54:35 i dont get it Jun 16 14:54:40 you cant do ./optware-dropbear Jun 16 14:54:40 he Jun 16 14:54:51 I dont see 775 Jun 16 14:54:54 oc80z, it isn't a shell script to be interpreted Jun 16 14:55:01 I see 10438 for optware-dropbear and 973 for dropbear Jun 16 14:55:03 palmkernel, do you see rwxr-xr-x ? Jun 16 14:55:11 yes Jun 16 14:55:17 oh this is the thing Jun 16 14:55:20 it wasn't like that before, but now it is Jun 16 14:56:08 the executable Jun 16 14:56:30 palm thats the filesize.. Jun 16 14:56:41 do the wiki directions for installing ssh work...... Jun 16 14:56:45 rofl kk, I haven't used a terminal in a while, I'm a windows guy Jun 16 14:56:48 yeah man Jun 16 14:56:52 its easy Jun 16 14:56:58 10438 for the bytes of your optware-dropbear ? Jun 16 14:57:02 but yeah I see rwxr-xr-x now Jun 16 14:57:08 yes Jun 16 14:57:13 man Jun 16 14:57:15 so ussually these problems dont arise? Jun 16 14:57:17 i dont even have optware-dropbear on my system Jun 16 14:57:24 ive never heard of them Jun 16 14:57:35 palmkernel, what is the output of 'head optware-dropbear' ? Jun 16 14:57:54 oh , nevermind Jun 16 14:57:56 which is better dropbear or openssh Jun 16 14:58:04 10438 is correct Jun 16 14:58:06 :| Jun 16 14:58:10 I cant paste it since I'm IRCing on another computer but it start joesmith openssh Jun 16 14:58:17 i've successfully rooted pre via usb & putty.. but i'm a newbie from here. is there a basic tururial I can read to learn about how to open, edit, and save files from within the putty terminal window? Jun 16 14:58:24 but dropbear should suffice.. Jun 16 14:58:29 initctl start optware-dropbear Jun 16 14:58:31 I have openssh on there too caus I was getting frustrated with this problem, but I can't get that to work either Jun 16 14:58:33 palmkernel, it starts with whats it do now palmkernel Jun 16 14:58:39 yeah Jun 16 14:58:39 rm initctl start optware-dropbear Jun 16 14:58:41 oops Jun 16 14:58:54 jk175d do what the tutorial says next Jun 16 14:58:58 ha! Jun 16 14:59:03 the wget is completely wronmg Jun 16 14:59:06 heh Jun 16 14:59:16 we need curl Jun 16 14:59:20 jk175d: : I installed the sudo and set that up via the wiki, then installed a pico clone, nano using ipkg-opt Jun 16 14:59:30 looool Jun 16 14:59:33 does anyone know how to change how many times the phone vibrates when it is in silent on an alert Jun 16 14:59:34 its borked Jun 16 14:59:43 go ahead and use open Jun 16 14:59:44 if you do a Jun 16 14:59:48 oc80z: what tuturial are you refering to? Jun 16 14:59:52 because 1 time just doe snot cut it Jun 16 14:59:53 palmkernel, wget http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/raw/master/etc/event.d/optware-dropbear Jun 16 14:59:54 shouuld I run the rm initctl start optware-dropbear? Jun 16 14:59:54 jk175d the one you were reading Jun 16 14:59:56 'sudo /opt/bin/nano fileToEdit' Jun 16 14:59:59 you can save to the file system Jun 16 15:00:02 wget that instead Jun 16 15:00:05 besure to backUP! Jun 16 15:00:15 then run initctl list and see if the optware-dropbear is in there Jun 16 15:00:26 be sure to install it nano too.. Jun 16 15:01:04 the only thing I want to do is enable the add/delete pages in the launcher Jun 16 15:01:26 oh do it Jun 16 15:01:29 palmkernel, let me know when you've gotten the new file Jun 16 15:01:54 got it Jun 16 15:02:16 seems like a simple edit, but I just don't know what I have to do to get that file open Jun 16 15:02:27 i used vi Jun 16 15:02:30 sweeet Jun 16 15:02:36 ..and edit/save Jun 16 15:02:44 got tagging working as lovely as can be without a ui to edit them Jun 16 15:02:49 lol sigh :( Jun 16 15:03:21 oc80z, it finished downloading Jun 16 15:03:32 I feel like a noob, because i am I am one...... :( Jun 16 15:03:54 palmkernel, did you want to finish getting dropbear to run ? Jun 16 15:04:46 that or openssh either one Jun 16 15:04:58 I just want to be able to start modding stuff on it, haha Jun 16 15:05:06 bpadalino|work: I went ahead and changed the gitorious links (dropbear & openssh) to point to the raw links (just fyi) Jun 16 15:05:08 did you wget the raw file ? Jun 16 15:05:13 drnull, thanks Jun 16 15:05:19 that should hopefully alleviate this issue Jun 16 15:05:23 yeah Jun 16 15:05:25 does anyone know how to change how many times the phone vibrates when it is in silent when receving an alert Jun 16 15:05:40 palmkernel, so now does initctl list show the optware-dropbear ? Jun 16 15:05:54 yep Jun 16 15:06:04 initctl start optware-dropbear Jun 16 15:06:24 wtf 'not found' Jun 16 15:06:33 but I'm staring at it, its right there, lol Jun 16 15:06:33 chmod 755 the file ? Jun 16 15:06:54 just did it, still no go Jun 16 15:07:21 WAIT Jun 16 15:07:24 WAIT! Jun 16 15:07:25 got it Jun 16 15:07:30 ok hold up Jun 16 15:07:32 -------- Jun 16 15:07:37 optware-dropbear is currupt Jun 16 15:07:40 i will post a new one hang on Jun 16 15:07:41 palmkernel, so what did you do differently ? Jun 16 15:07:44 sweet, and I can SSH into it now too Jun 16 15:07:45 actually Jun 16 15:07:49 PHEW Jun 16 15:07:49 forget dropbear Jun 16 15:07:57 I have absolutely no idea, I just retyped it, though I don't see any typoes originally Jun 16 15:08:03 there must have been one somewhere Jun 16 15:08:09 so now ssh works ? Jun 16 15:08:25 yep I have a terminal open from the imac and I can talk to the phone over wifi Jun 16 15:08:43 * cheers Jun 16 15:08:48 yay Jun 16 15:08:51 thanks so much guys Jun 16 15:08:55 ^5 to everyone for figuring this out Jun 16 15:08:58 silly wget Jun 16 15:09:02 and I should be able to restart the phone and it will work too? Jun 16 15:09:10 guys Jun 16 15:09:10 heh, it looks right in my browser... Jun 16 15:09:11 UGH Jun 16 15:09:12 palmkernel, yes - should come up after webos starts Jun 16 15:09:25 awesome. thanks so much guys Jun 16 15:09:42 and girls :P Jun 16 15:10:06 and girls :-) Jun 16 15:10:18 well one last thing... when I ssh into is, and I ls, nothing comes up Jun 16 15:10:36 I'm logged in and everything, did I forget a step to set the home directory when I ssh or something? Jun 16 15:11:04 palmkernel, you don't get a prompt ? Jun 16 15:11:17 (myuser)@castle Jun 16 15:11:31 palmkernel, oh - you're fine - there's just nothing in your home directory Jun 16 15:11:34 cd / Jun 16 15:11:35 ls -l Jun 16 15:11:38 rofl Jun 16 15:11:47 I literally did that and then looked over back to this window Jun 16 15:11:55 heh Jun 16 15:12:08 have fun in your phone Jun 16 15:12:09 again, used to dos, not terminal Jun 16 15:12:11 haha thanks Jun 16 15:12:16 as long as you can laugh at your self, then we're just laughing with you. Jun 16 15:13:10 wicked lame Jun 16 15:13:15 http://blea.ch/~oc80z/optware-dropbear Jun 16 15:13:21 right in front of your face, ugh Jun 16 15:13:36 u can wget that script Jun 16 15:13:41 hrm Jun 16 15:14:07 oc, the problem from before was that the wget pointed to the pretty html code .. not the actual script itself Jun 16 15:14:19 once that was fixed - i believe it worked Jun 16 15:14:22 ugh Jun 16 15:14:23 i know Jun 16 15:14:27 worst ever. Jun 16 15:14:34 haha, that makes sense, because when I looked at the tile it looked like straight up html Jun 16 15:14:40 its like u are wearing your glasses Jun 16 15:14:48 on your head, and cant find your glasses Jun 16 15:14:49 no? Jun 16 15:14:52 right Jun 16 15:14:53 heh Jun 16 15:15:10 is there a way to find out my ip address on the phone without rooting into it to run ifconfig? Jun 16 15:15:39 palmkernel, which IP ? Jun 16 15:15:46 wlan is in the wi-fi settings Jun 16 15:15:48 wifi Jun 16 15:15:53 oh sweet Jun 16 15:16:01 click on the name of the wifi network you're connected to Jun 16 15:16:17 sweet there it is Jun 16 15:16:30 evdo IP can be found by dialing ##DEBUG# on your phone (where DEBUG are the NUMBERS with the letters on them - not the letters themselves) Jun 16 15:16:56 nice Jun 16 15:17:32 haha I remember all teh codes on teh instinct with the ##CODE-HERE# Jun 16 15:17:49 you used to be able to teather before they took away the ##USB# one :-( Jun 16 15:18:38 :( Jun 16 15:19:18 does ##DEBUG# update automatically? (when your ip address changes) Jun 16 15:19:30 (I mean, if you leave the card up) Jun 16 15:20:29 i am not sure drnull Jun 16 15:21:48 slick, it does. Plugged in usb cable, it went to 0.0.0.0, pulled cable, now it's 68.... uh... yeah. Now it's updated. :) Jun 16 15:22:12 heh Jun 16 15:22:22 well there you go - dbus event messages get pushed up to the card Jun 16 15:23:13 sure beats my having a card for whatismyip.com open and refreshing when my ssh dies (yes, I know there are dyndns solutions, just to lazy to get that going) Jun 16 15:25:50 glad to help Jun 16 15:26:19 hi all Jun 16 15:26:40 hello Jun 16 15:26:42 have question about WebShell installed according to Pre Dev Wiki Jun 16 15:27:12 shoot bkuberek Jun 16 15:27:19 who else is stuck Jun 16 15:27:32 palmkernel u ok? Jun 16 15:27:38 bpadalino u ? Jun 16 15:27:49 I cannot see the text I type, I have only a glimpse of it when I press each key then it disapears Jun 16 15:28:09 and I notice that each key I press is types twice Jun 16 15:28:23 check your putty settings? Jun 16 15:28:30 oc80z, i am never stuck Jun 16 15:28:35 thanks for checking in, though Jun 16 15:28:36 #webos-internals(+cnt)] [Act: 2] Jun 16 15:28:36 [#webos-internal] Jun 16 15:28:38 opps Jun 16 15:28:43 is there really a need for ssh..... Jun 16 15:28:47 not using putty, I installed it via novaterm on a mac Jun 16 15:28:53 predev.wikidot.com/podcatcher nice work! Jun 16 15:29:07 yeah awesome time spent on that Jun 16 15:29:17 I manage a webserver and I thought it was really great to have that in my hand if I ever needed Jun 16 15:29:20 dunno bkuberek, you tell me, you always want to use that? Jun 16 15:29:35 yeah sure Jun 16 15:29:50 its mostly for fun I guess. I wouldn't use it to do web development. Or in case of an emergency etc Jun 16 15:29:52 i think what you should do is install openssh , follow the rest of the tutorial Jun 16 15:30:07 heh, but you know you could. Jun 16 15:30:08 I have that too Jun 16 15:30:21 ah you installed openssh/dropbear Jun 16 15:30:36 but it seems that openssh will allow me to login itnp my phone rather than from my phone Jun 16 15:31:10 if I have a computer and I ssh into my phone everything is great Jun 16 15:31:11 oc80z, your latest change doesn't apply - there is no html in those wget urls anymore .. drnull changed them both to the raw files Jun 16 15:31:21 so after you root the pre, you install ssh to make it secure so you can connect to it over wifi? is that right? Jun 16 15:31:26 but the phone doesn't a terminal thats why I installed webshell Jun 16 15:31:39 correct Jun 16 15:32:03 anybody installed webshell Jun 16 15:32:04 ? Jun 16 15:32:24 I'd reather have straig terminal access rather than webshell Jun 16 15:32:37 soo is there anyway just to connect to it through usb without bothering with wifi Jun 16 15:32:44 i have to be connected via usb to ssh over wifi, is that for everyone or am i missing something? Jun 16 15:33:07 again, to make it clear, having terminal on my pre is not crucial but is an added feature that will love to use Jun 16 15:33:22 Yea theres a way Jun 16 15:33:24 just to use usb Jun 16 15:33:32 theres some drivers somewhere Jun 16 15:33:35 nice Jun 16 15:33:39 is it less secure? Jun 16 15:33:41 ok bpd! Jun 16 15:33:52 I have to connect via USB so I can find out the IP address of the phone. Once i have that I can unplug and will ssh into it Jun 16 15:34:04 I see Jun 16 15:34:12 opie_: thanks, I wasn't sure where to link it on the wiki, so I just made an orphan.. Jun 16 15:34:16 i have a static IP for my phone, but i just can't do it without it being plugged in Jun 16 15:34:31 Atlanta: yeah... its a bit weird. Jun 16 15:34:36 no its more secure Jun 16 15:34:37 I'd love to set up a static IP also Jun 16 15:34:56 just reserved it in your router Jun 16 15:35:02 ohh Jun 16 15:35:09 yup, MAC is in wifi options Jun 16 15:35:11 iirc Jun 16 15:35:20 cool Jun 16 15:35:34 so where can I find instructions on the usb connection instead of ssh Jun 16 15:36:29 @joesmith http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 16 15:36:47 I take it you can ssh out with the commandline ssh client once Web Shell is installed? Jun 16 15:36:51 ah now i cna putty w/o being plugged in. first time its worked Jun 16 15:37:06 @tlp yea Jun 16 15:37:16 Webshell uses python to connect to the underneath ssh server Jun 16 15:37:16 tip: yes though webshell is a bit irritating to type in. Jun 16 15:37:18 who did you do that dnic Jun 16 15:37:48 i plugged in logged in, exited. then tried it w/o it being plugged in and it worked Jun 16 15:38:01 seems to be touchy though Jun 16 15:38:06 Ok I have an idea, but I don't know if I can do it since I'm unfamiliar with linux. But I may have a lead on making different sounds for emails,texts,ims, charger connect. Jun 16 15:38:14 @joesmith you need the novaproxy tool Jun 16 15:38:47 http://github.com/asedeno/novaproxy/tree/master Jun 16 15:39:00 in theory if your router assigns the pres's mac address a static address wouldnt that always work? Jun 16 15:39:17 should yes Jun 16 15:39:25 you ip on the phone doesnt change whatsoever Jun 16 15:39:53 Lurking_Grue: why's that? Jun 16 15:40:23 ohh, if I connect via novaterm, I can use the command ifconfig, but through ssh it says it doesn't exist Jun 16 15:40:47 even if I su Jun 16 15:40:47 could someone answer some questions for me in the other chat Jun 16 15:40:52 bkuberek did u fix step 13 or 13a Jun 16 15:41:15 13b Jun 16 15:41:18 yea Jun 16 15:41:21 OpenSSH Jun 16 15:41:22 u fixed the wget? Jun 16 15:41:24 oh ok Jun 16 15:41:34 I never heard of dropbear Jun 16 15:41:36 joesmith: which other chat? Jun 16 15:41:37 Tip: text seems to try to go to the global search but almost randomly you get it to take the keyboard. Though first character you type auto corrects to a capitol. The on screen keyboard takes up too much screen. Jun 16 15:41:43 should I done dropbear instaed? Jun 16 15:43:03 nah Jun 16 15:43:05 ur fine Jun 16 15:43:57 joesmith: #preguides? Jun 16 15:44:28 I cant get in to the webosdev Jun 16 15:44:31 lol Jun 16 15:45:42 anyone else using novaproxy ? Jun 16 15:46:13 Lurking_Grue: ah. Maybe that'd be a good project for someone to work on (making WebShell Pre friendly). Jun 16 15:46:42 tlp: or actually get aterminal window on the pre Jun 16 15:46:43 thanks for noticing & fixing bpadalino drnull Jun 16 15:46:43 though I dunno how much of what you described is due to the browser Jun 16 15:46:52 bkuberek: yeah, that'd be ideal Jun 16 15:46:54 Tip: I already removed the iPhoneish background as I like to be able to read the text. :) Jun 16 15:47:10 has anyone installed ssh without a hitch who is a noob like me Jun 16 15:47:20 joe where are you stuck Jun 16 15:47:30 I dont have a phone yet Jun 16 15:47:31 Lurking_Grue: that's nice Jun 16 15:47:43 the ssh issue was somthing funny, its all set. Jun 16 15:47:43 I just think it looks hard Jun 16 15:47:55 we're here to get you there. Jun 16 15:48:00 and hearing there issues made it seem harder Jun 16 15:48:18 well ty I am glad that smart people are around Jun 16 15:48:20 it was funny heh Jun 16 15:48:31 joesmith: its not hard, you just have to read a lot before you try Jun 16 15:48:40 Joesmith: Yes I did Jun 16 15:48:43 unless learning hurts your brain Jun 16 15:48:44 dont do it Jun 16 15:48:49 lol Jun 16 15:49:00 any good tips to start Jun 16 15:49:06 havent used linux for some time and did it for the most part smooth Jun 16 15:49:09 I went to pre dev wiki Jun 16 15:49:10 what is bsl0 being used for? Jun 16 15:49:35 sorry bsl0 Jun 16 15:49:47 Joe: follow directions exactly and you'll be fine. Don't forget to turn on developer mode to make the first connection, then go do some reading on basic shell commands Jun 16 15:49:55 bdumm, bt pan ? Jun 16 15:49:57 anyone using ez-ipupdate ? Jun 16 15:50:02 mpule Jun 16 15:50:05 bpadalino, from ifconfig Jun 16 15:50:12 joesmith: I first applied for the SDK, they let me in. then I joined the PreCentral and then predev.wikidot.net Jun 16 15:50:15 bdumm, right - i am saying bluetooth pan ? Jun 16 15:50:29 oh, sorry still asleep, eyes can't read anything :) Jun 16 15:50:31 ic ic Jun 16 15:50:32 heh Jun 16 15:50:36 bkuber: you got in, i dont think you are supposed to mention that :) Jun 16 15:50:39 Does anyone have a way to get the darned thing to QUIT autocorrecting the first character to caps? Aaaarrrrghhh. I'm tired of typing, clicking into the second character, retying the first character and back-spacing Jun 16 15:50:58 my bad Jun 16 15:51:00 never again Jun 16 15:51:05 * bdumm treats his pre like any other linux boxen.... Jun 16 15:51:06 just tap backspace once after it autocaps, and it then autouncaps Jun 16 15:51:12 ah kill is my friend :) Jun 16 15:51:15 lol, yull likely be attacked by people asking for it Jun 16 15:51:20 it's like auto correct in word Jun 16 15:51:23 and jealous stares Jun 16 15:51:30 I never said anyting about it Jun 16 15:51:32 :( Jun 16 15:51:41 well crud. Now I feel stupid. Thanks. Jun 16 15:51:51 I want to ask some questions about what we cant talk about here, but I cant get into the other chatroom?? Jun 16 15:51:54 can't figure out where to add the hook to call ez-ipupdate when ppp0 gets a new ip addy Jun 16 15:52:58 what if we start a company with someone who got into the early sdk access Jun 16 15:53:02 we can all get access then Jun 16 15:53:06 so.. how come my grep doesn't grep anything? Jun 16 15:53:26 do I have to do a file name or can I do an entire directory? Jun 16 15:54:24 You can do an entire directory if you specify a wildcard for the filename Jun 16 15:54:30 oh if I do root it and install ssh, do I have to have bluetooth to connect? Jun 16 15:54:38 Kaerey, what is your command you're using ? Jun 16 15:54:38 grep "palm://" * Jun 16 15:54:49 or recursively with grep -r "palm://" * Jun 16 15:54:49 Kaerey: google man grep. But basically, yes, it needs a filename. Or grep -r pattern . to grep the current directory and all below it. Jun 16 15:55:07 so if I do something like grep search_term *.* it would search teh directory? Jun 16 15:55:34 yep Jun 16 15:55:41 don't use *.* in linux .. Jun 16 15:55:49 try just * if you mean "everything" Jun 16 15:55:55 *.* is a bit of a dos holdover... * is sufficient. Jun 16 15:56:21 if the files don't have extensions to them, you won't search them .. and using the -r will recursively search Jun 16 15:56:21 ok and the difference between -r and -d recurse Jun 16 15:56:23 ? Jun 16 15:56:25 anything? Jun 16 15:56:36 i use -r .. not sure what -d does Jun 16 15:57:09 If ACTION is recurse, grep reads Jun 16 15:57:11 whoops Jun 16 15:57:20 all files under each directory, recursively; this is Jun 16 15:57:27 equivalent to the -r option. Jun 16 15:57:40 -d recurse and -r are the same apparently Jun 16 15:57:51 ok Jun 16 15:59:31 i hope palm changes their standard cards to have some type of indicator that shows you can "go back" in a card ... Jun 16 15:59:51 i find it confusing sometimes when i am going around the UI to know if a back gesture will go back or if i can even do it Jun 16 16:00:05 yea annoying for back to go to card view Jun 16 16:00:09 but that's probably a discussion for #webos Jun 16 16:00:50 since we stick so closely to webos internals here... Jun 16 16:01:34 I'm going back to work, but will stay connected Jun 16 16:02:27 drnull, trying harder to stay on topic Jun 16 16:04:15 anyone know how to hook into ppp0 ip changes to run ez-ipupdate script? Jun 16 16:05:13 hemna, have you looked at /etc/ppp ? Jun 16 16:05:18 yah Jun 16 16:05:33 I added a script into /etc/ppp/ip-up.d Jun 16 16:05:39 but it doesn't seem to get run Jun 16 16:05:47 hemna: j0sh was looking at that last night, maybe check the archive? Jun 16 16:05:59 he seemed to indicate that a second script ran, but not the first (oddly enough...) Jun 16 16:06:07 hrmm Jun 16 16:06:15 irc logs on the wiki ? Jun 16 16:06:51 http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos-internals.txt and http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos-internals/ Jun 16 16:06:56 thanks Jun 16 16:09:33 roar cant reproduce my ad hoc connection :( Jun 16 16:16:33 * nebula begs pandora to stop playing the red hot chili peppers Jun 16 16:18:02 nebula yea it sucks Jun 16 16:18:03 lol Jun 16 16:18:08 nebula, clearly you have poor music taste if that is popping up in your playlist ;) Jun 16 16:18:18 fuck i seem to have boot looped my phone :( Jun 16 16:18:58 psykoz: it's my incubus channel! Jun 16 16:19:07 nebula, see that's where you went wrong ;) Jun 16 16:19:12 noooooooo Jun 16 16:19:23 the drumming is great Jun 16 16:19:29 wat? Jun 16 16:19:31 who, oh yea rhcp... Jun 16 16:19:35 <-- drummer Jun 16 16:20:23 yeah okay... I mean seriously you can't think drumming all 4/4 rhythms is good drumming? Jun 16 16:20:56 nebula, mickey hart Jun 16 16:22:27 hemna: I put a really simple test file in /etc/ppp/ip-up.d/09test that contained to commands, date & ifconfig redirecting their output to /tmp/ip. Seemed to work when I changed my ip address by plugging in as usb drive. Jun 16 16:22:43 ugh, to commands -> two commands. Jun 16 16:23:04 psykoz: that's the idea... it's not 4/4 Jun 16 16:23:38 take for example, listen to the song "follow" Jun 16 16:23:43 tell me that isn't badass Jun 16 16:24:48 it's 7/8 9/8 11/8 Jun 16 16:25:01 i believe theres some 11/8... Jun 16 16:25:25 What is the chance of getting an SSH client without having the SDK to build the screen interface? Jun 16 16:26:40 its a pain in the ass imo Jun 16 16:26:44 not worth pursuing Jun 16 16:26:55 buy a tmobile G1 and use that to ssh to your phone :) Jun 16 16:27:04 yes, i was doing that the other day Jun 16 16:28:21 * nebula uses putty wherever he is Jun 16 16:28:22 by dissecting the source of the apps we have we pretty much have most everything ui-wise that willb e in the sdk Jun 16 16:28:49 yeah Jun 16 16:29:00 but its a pain in the ass to test and put together the actual controllers Jun 16 16:29:04 thats the hard part imo Jun 16 16:29:19 since i still havent figured out how to kill the cache that the os seems to use for js Jun 16 16:29:26 although i definately suspect it is possible Jun 16 16:33:17 I have a few questions Jun 16 16:33:21 nebula, does sound offhand with first glance a decent 9/8 7/8 swing during the chorus, but the main verses are still 4/4 Jun 16 16:33:43 can someone help me Jun 16 16:34:18 ???\ Jun 16 16:34:31 so I give you some credit there ;), ever listen to apocalypse in 13/8 from Genesis? :> good drumming stuff also Jun 16 16:35:11 so ive been using the wonderful wikis and exploring around my pre, just wondering if anyone has slapped together a HelloWorld app? Jun 16 16:35:29 psykoz: yeah, the main verse.. but don't tell me that's a typical time signature song Jun 16 16:35:46 drnull, ok. I created a simple 09updatedns script in /etc/ppp/ip-up.d Jun 16 16:36:03 psykoz: phil collins is... awesome. Jun 16 16:36:06 nebula, no it's not a typical time signature so I have been pwned, I've only heard some of their crappy radio crap ;) Jun 16 16:36:11 djk: i think it's definitely possible. there's a javascript vt100 library out there, and that could talk to a background process via the mojo messaging api Jun 16 16:36:13 #!/bin/sh Jun 16 16:36:13 /opt/bin/ez-ipupdate -c /opt/etc/ez-ipupdate.conf Jun 16 16:36:20 that's it. Jun 16 16:36:21 nebula, yeah Phil Collins is... awesome ;) Jun 16 16:36:23 psykoz: that's the idea... their radio crap isn't what i listen to! :) Jun 16 16:37:08 though dig is a pretty good song Jun 16 16:37:17 i have a hello puppy app i made :) Jun 16 16:37:25 its based off someone elses example Jun 16 16:37:37 hello puppy? Jun 16 16:37:39 has anyone used novaproxy to telnet to the pre? Jun 16 16:38:03 hello puppy sounded cooler at the time :) Jun 16 16:38:11 well at least theres tons of example code since palm has so gratiously supplied the source to everything :oP Jun 16 16:38:14 Ok, so the SDK is needed before pre hacking is able to start making apps. For now it is just tweaking which is cool by itself Jun 16 16:38:31 djk: you can make apps now Jun 16 16:38:33 djk, why would the sdk be needed? Jun 16 16:38:34 hemna: put a line in the like "date >> /tmp/ipupdate" or something so you know for sure it is running Jun 16 16:38:35 its just a bit harder Jun 16 16:38:39 since we have no debugger Jun 16 16:38:44 youll just have to scp them to the device Jun 16 16:38:45 djk, not necessarily, there's plenty of example code on the pre already Jun 16 16:38:50 rather than grab them from the app store Jun 16 16:38:50 or streamlined way to deploy Jun 16 16:38:53 for the JS side Jun 16 16:39:06 and I think some people have made progress on making mojo service providers Jun 16 16:39:19 Why is that? Do they have to be signed or something? Can't we copy an app on the pre rename stuff and upload it into the right place? Or is there something "odd" that we don't have Jun 16 16:39:53 interesting...didn't know this, but when you put the pre into usb drive mode ppp0 goes away Jun 16 16:40:14 yep, and that's a fast way to get a new ip address Jun 16 16:40:47 sweet...so I can test this script a bit easier...I'll try your date >> line Jun 16 16:40:49 thnx Jun 16 16:40:55 no prob Jun 16 16:41:30 is the webosdev chat over on efnet full Jun 16 16:42:40 /window next Jun 16 16:42:56 no Jun 16 16:44:15 anyone look at possibility of adding other IM services ex: yahoo, sametime? Jun 16 16:44:16 question about emulator. Would it work to use VirtualBox to create a virtual environment and copy all of the phone's content to it and run it? Jun 16 16:44:50 virtualbox is an x86 vm, so no, it wouldn't work Jun 16 16:45:01 anyone used novaproxy to telnet to pre??????? Jun 16 16:45:54 DSouljah you use novaproxy to establish the connection and then use something like PuTTY to connect in RAW mode Jun 16 16:46:23 o ok, I'll try that, thanks Kaerey Jun 16 16:46:51 drnull, ok It looks like the interface isn't set up yet Jun 16 16:46:54 i added a google-talk account to the messaging app, but want to remove it...the remove account button is greyed out - any idea why ? Jun 16 16:46:55 once it says "listening on port 8023" you open Putty and connect to localhost port 8023 Jun 16 16:47:20 ez-ipupdate is reporting "gethostbyname: host name lookup failure error connecting to members.dyndns.org" Jun 16 16:47:22 ok I should be set from there! I'm just trying to avoid doing the whole wireless thing Jun 16 16:51:34 jerms: are you online? try changing your status to offline. Jun 16 16:51:50 thanks again Kaerey, worked! And you said use RAW correct? Jun 16 16:52:17 drnull, I got it working. I added a sleep 5 in the script to allow ppp0 to correctly come up before trying to run ez-ipupdate Jun 16 16:53:13 that did it, thanks steviebuns Jun 16 16:54:30 jerms: np Jun 16 16:54:40 hemna: nice find, maybe I'll setup my no-ip finally. :) Jun 16 16:55:23 has anyone managed to import a wpa2 enterprise certificate into a wifi connection? Jun 16 16:55:29 ok, I'm getting a compressed data CRC error when tryng to run ipkg-opt update. Jun 16 16:56:01 everything was perfect to step 8 then this. Jun 16 16:56:06 should I just try again? Jun 16 16:56:06 guess I should add this tidbit to the wiki ? Jun 16 16:56:38 hemna: sure, if you find a good page to throw it on. I think a few people have had this problem. Jun 16 16:58:06 ok nevermind, worked on the third try Jun 16 17:07:18 Wiki for root and ssh worked perfectly, no errors, dropbear perfect, thank you guys, well done, nothing missing, plain english. Congrats. Jun 16 17:08:49 Rick_: I second that. You guys are doing a great job Jun 16 17:12:55 without I spend the time searching, are there any editors on this thing besides vi? I _hate_ vi. Jun 16 17:13:10 I installed OpenSSH. Would it been better if I had use Dropbear instead? Jun 16 17:13:21 Rick_: Them's fightin' words! ;) Jun 16 17:13:23 what is the difference between OpenSSH and Dropbear? Jun 16 17:13:31 Is the ringer switch a software control that might able to hack to be a mute switch so when on there would be no risk of sound Jun 16 17:13:36 Dropbear is smaller. Pre has only 256 of ram Jun 16 17:14:18 so perhaps I should remove OpenSSH and install dropbear right? Jun 16 17:14:45 Stevie, they may be fighting words, but they're true. That's why there are MANY different editors. 'Cause there are many different people. Would you like that the world had only one PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE? We could be writing for the Pre in COBOL after all.... Jun 16 17:15:27 we could all have the same hair cut and skin color Jun 16 17:15:39 this sounds facist, sorry Jun 16 17:16:00 vim is the editor installed, but once you have the optware feed you can install nano or that emacs operating system if you want Jun 16 17:16:14 haha, emacs operating system Jun 16 17:16:20 I couldn't get vim to work, I am using vi Jun 16 17:16:25 bkuberek: I'm a narcissist, so that sounds awesome. Jun 16 17:16:39 should carry a mirror around Jun 16 17:17:12 buh, emacs Jun 16 17:17:17 I tried learning emacs once Jun 16 17:17:18 hey the pre has a mirror ! Jun 16 17:17:25 lol Jun 16 17:17:34 bkuberek, haha Jun 16 17:17:44 vim isn't too bad once you get used to 2 modes Jun 16 17:18:01 hard to actually work, when I want to dink on the Pre Jun 16 17:18:14 vim is a bit complicated. need to memorize so many commands Jun 16 17:18:19 hemna, same here Jun 16 17:18:23 but is very powerfull Jun 16 17:18:29 vi/vim is a good thing to get comfortable with since it is almost always available on unix Jun 16 17:18:35 bkuberek, just need to know :wq, :q, :q! and 'i' Jun 16 17:18:42 bkuberek: not really, you can use vim in insert mode the same way you use any other editor Jun 16 17:18:53 heh, funny to see folks getting their first taste of vi...because of the Pre Jun 16 17:19:02 no its sad :) Jun 16 17:19:10 long live VI! Jun 16 17:19:14 * bdumm rolls eyes Jun 16 17:19:17 haha w00t, i made international news Jun 16 17:19:24 http://games.terra.com.br/interna/0,,OI3825682-EI1702,00.html Jun 16 17:19:25 for VNC? Jun 16 17:19:25 :P, I've been using it for 20+ years Jun 16 17:19:27 vi rocks Jun 16 17:19:29 hemma: most vim tutorials alert to not be insert mode more than it is necessary to edit Jun 16 17:19:30 for nintendo Jun 16 17:19:33 Hemna: I am lucky enough to have been irritated by vi since the 80's ;) Jun 16 17:19:41 noone apparently gives a shit about vnc Jun 16 17:19:43 heh Jun 16 17:19:46 nebula: haha :) Jun 16 17:19:49 nebula, congrats Jun 16 17:19:50 (funny it took more work) Jun 16 17:19:54 i don't knowhow to say it in spanish Jun 16 17:20:00 yah my first reaction to vi back in the 80s was WTF?! Jun 16 17:20:02 it's portuguese! Jun 16 17:20:09 my wife will be proud Jun 16 17:20:10 hemna, thats still my reaction Jun 16 17:20:10 i am sorry! Jun 16 17:20:15 hehe Jun 16 17:20:18 oh don't be sorry lol Jun 16 17:20:22 in case anyone cares, OpenVPN client runs very well on the pre! Jun 16 17:20:34 nebula: There's vnc for the pre? Is there an index of homebrew apps somewhere? Jun 16 17:20:48 nebula I want ssh and VNC on the pre Jun 16 17:20:50 nebula: is your wife portugese? or just a fanatic? :-) Jun 16 17:21:14 so, how close to standard linux is the pre, is it really easy to start building native binaries? Jun 16 17:21:32 Destinal: without having a Pre, I'd say pretty close Jun 16 17:21:55 Destinal: it's busybox linux Jun 16 17:21:58 heh it IS linux Jun 16 17:22:07 really annoyed with my android device, it's a linux kernel but not much else Jun 16 17:22:12 config file locations are slightly different Jun 16 17:22:22 destinal, standard linux kernel and they use codesourcery for their toolchain: http://www.codesourcery.com/ Jun 16 17:22:43 nice. and no crypto in the bootloader? Jun 16 17:22:47 Destinal: that might explain why I can't find the same community interest Jun 16 17:23:06 Destinal: And gstreamer, pulseaudio, upstart and other Linuxy things Jun 16 17:23:13 destinal, i am not sure people really mucked around much with booting their own code just yet - but it seems easy enough to get into Jun 16 17:23:16 Destinal: doesn't seem to be any crypto in the bootloader Jun 16 17:23:21 ok, I'm buying one Jun 16 17:23:23 :) Jun 16 17:23:31 it's a very fun device Jun 16 17:23:37 according to the internet, you can flash unsigned roms Jun 16 17:23:44 I love the Pre Jun 16 17:23:56 The internets wouldn't lie. Jun 16 17:23:59 about time we had a commercially viable open linux phone Jun 16 17:24:00 hate to butt in with newbie questions, but when I attempt to wget the ipkg-opt package it is returning: bad address 'ipkg.nslu2-linux.org'. Has anyone else encountered this? Jun 16 17:24:12 Destinal: "open" might be pushing it Jun 16 17:24:12 bpadalino: is codesourcery essentially GCC + fancy extras? Jun 16 17:24:14 nullitydown, is your wifi on ? Jun 16 17:24:19 njk, yes Jun 16 17:24:30 i'm connected via USB at work, but have strong evdo signal Jun 16 17:24:31 cool Jun 16 17:24:35 well, ok, hackable and not actively trying to keep out the device's owner is open enough for me :) Jun 16 17:24:39 Destinal: I would say "moderately open" or "open enough" Jun 16 17:24:41 but yeah Jun 16 17:24:56 * nullitydown thinks he knows where bpadalino is going with this Jun 16 17:25:15 where am i going ? Jun 16 17:25:15 may seem extreme to some but I feel like if I can't modify it, I don't own it. Jun 16 17:25:35 lack of internet access is the problem? Jun 16 17:25:52 nullitydown, or just lack of DNS .. try using the IP instead of the name ? Jun 16 17:25:54 Destinal: conceptually, I don't disagree. Realistically, this is the first "mainstream" device I've seen that fits what I _want_ Jun 16 17:26:00 funny how pandora says incubus is like bob marley Jun 16 17:26:26 I'm not a big fan of pandora Jun 16 17:26:28 akrito, djk: i got vnc working the other day Jun 16 17:26:29 thanks, i'll give that a try Jun 16 17:26:36 since palm is using OE, their toolchain must be built by OE. codesourcery 08q1 toolchain happens to be very compatible Jun 16 17:26:37 i'll post the wiki article shortly Jun 16 17:26:39 kind of odd that every pict that is taken on the pre has 755 perms Jun 16 17:26:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzLfai2GrKo Jun 16 17:26:48 thttpd hates it Jun 16 17:26:49 nebula cool Jun 16 17:26:50 lol, konami code?! nice. Jun 16 17:26:50 ^^^ vnc on the pre Jun 16 17:27:28 i had to hack the source code to remove mouse support, but oh well... Jun 16 17:27:45 nice video Jun 16 17:27:48 vnc no less Jun 16 17:27:49 someone needs to write a driver for the touchscreen and bind it to the mouse Jun 16 17:27:49 awesome Jun 16 17:27:55 hmmm... wget: 140.211.169.169: network is unreachable Jun 16 17:28:08 nullitydown, try traceroute ? Jun 16 17:28:10 nebula: *cough* gee, I wonder who that someone would be? *cough* Jun 16 17:28:29 based off openembedded? yeah, that's open enough from a stack perspective. I don't care about having the PCB diagrams Jun 16 17:28:30 nullitydown, also - try this .. go to a web page on the pre - and then try your wget Jun 16 17:28:46 destinal, it seems internally they use dbus to communicate events Jun 16 17:28:52 summatusmentis: you! Jun 16 17:28:55 it is in USB mode... should i have chosen 'just charge'? Jun 16 17:29:21 nullitydown, oh - yes - i believe the radios gets turned off when you're in USB mode Jun 16 17:29:25 nebula: no device, remember? Jun 16 17:29:28 :-P Jun 16 17:29:30 grr! Jun 16 17:29:33 ah, perfect. thanks bp! Jun 16 17:29:36 someone send summatusmentis a pre Jun 16 17:29:47 that's what I've been saying ;-P Jun 16 17:30:24 nebula thta is remote viewer reab only VNC? no way to start a VNC session if you aren't remoted to the phone, correct? Jun 16 17:30:46 djk: it's run from within the debian chroot for now Jun 16 17:31:07 oh, that's the other thing, I vote moving away from debian chroot if possible Jun 16 17:31:42 nebula it is still cool and proves it is possible Jun 16 17:31:50 summatusmentis, it makes some things (like getting a full toolchain on the device, etc...) much easier Jun 16 17:31:51 yup Jun 16 17:31:53 djk agreed Jun 16 17:31:58 summatusmentis, and much less intrusive. Jun 16 17:32:16 I would like to see a pidgin client on it Jun 16 17:32:30 maybe one that doesn't kill the battery ;-) Jun 16 17:32:43 Sargun: absolutely, I understand the reasoning, I just like the idea of having everything installed locally, without the need for chroot. I used to chroot my n810, and found it annoying Jun 16 17:32:48 so anyone workin on a better copy paste? Jun 16 17:33:24 mikejaret: be happy it has copy/paste in the first generation, unlike some other, fruitier phones Jun 16 17:33:30 until more is known about the os, i think we should stick to chroot Jun 16 17:33:31 summatusmentis, haha Jun 16 17:33:34 to prevent breakage Jun 16 17:33:51 o i get it....iphone totally blows, but not being able to copy and paste others msgs and websites is hindering (coming from a bberry) Jun 16 17:34:03 though it would be nice to get X working on the vanilla kernel ;) Jun 16 17:34:12 nebula: that's fair Jun 16 17:34:17 anyone try changing the hostname of their Pre? Jun 16 17:34:28 storm the castle! Jun 16 17:34:48 mikejaret: not being able to copy and paste other messages? copy and paste doesn't work device wide? Jun 16 17:35:01 do we know that the hostname isn't used for some sort of verification? Jun 16 17:35:13 summa: it only works on text fields that you can edit Jun 16 17:35:20 like once i send a txt i cant copy what i wrote Jun 16 17:35:27 and u cant copy websites Jun 16 17:35:31 or msg's from other people Jun 16 17:35:49 mikejaret: oh, that's rather unfortunate Jun 16 17:36:29 mdklein true a power tune pidgin client basically it would good to have support for multiple IM services. It would also be good to have a delete all in a conversion instead of having the swipe them one at a time Jun 16 17:36:30 ur tellin me Jun 16 17:36:51 I'd settle for mark all as read Jun 16 17:37:15 anyone want to be able to foward messages Jun 16 17:37:16 ? Jun 16 17:37:18 I like to clear them out Jun 16 17:37:32 forwarding will come in next update...so says sprint cs Jun 16 17:37:44 oh ok i was gonna say if enough people are interested Jun 16 17:37:46 atlanta: I have seen the request by other. I personally never did Jun 16 17:38:11 we need search to search emails... Jun 16 17:38:11 ill code up the javascript and see how adding a button to a convo will work Jun 16 17:38:12 not pidgin, but finch is in optware Jun 16 17:38:24 I wonder how quick the updates are going to be pushed out Jun 16 17:38:31 well they are waiting Jun 16 17:38:34 dont spend too much time on stuff that they will release for sure.... Jun 16 17:38:37 so they have many fixes in one Jun 16 17:38:47 @mikejaret believe me i wont Jun 16 17:38:51 did I see someone found a way to tweak the camera exposure? In low light no flash it seems to be overposed Jun 16 17:38:51 hehe Jun 16 17:39:07 hopefully my company will have our mobile games ported over shortly Jun 16 17:39:51 who u work for Jun 16 17:39:51 ? Jun 16 17:40:04 obama biden Jun 16 17:40:07 * Lurking_Grue needs emulators. Jun 16 17:40:08 @djk theres perfences in the camera app Jun 16 17:40:09 djk: Pre IM is based on libpurple already... Jun 16 17:40:12 Running With Scissors Jun 16 17:40:21 yea yahoo coming soon to the list Jun 16 17:40:35 pocek: yes so it should be easy to add other IM protocols Jun 16 17:41:01 is there any compelling reason to go with OpenSSH over Dropbear? The wiki states that OpenSSH is more fully featured, but as a newbie i'm thinking i'll probably not need them... Jun 16 17:41:32 That's great libpurple then the other services should be possible Jun 16 17:41:48 @djk yea they are Jun 16 17:41:52 nullitydown: i'd go openssh, i use it even on nslu2 (32MB RAM) Jun 16 17:41:58 it just has to be interfaced with mojo Jun 16 17:42:05 just need to tweak the UI for other IM protocols Jun 16 17:42:10 o0r the mojo Jun 16 17:42:22 Founded 1997(as RWS), 1985(as RSP) Jun 16 17:42:22 Headquarters Tucson, Arizona Jun 16 17:42:22 Key people Vince Desi,Mike Jaret-Schachter Jun 16 17:42:22 Industry Computer and video game industry Jun 16 17:42:22 Website www.runningwithscissors.com Jun 16 17:42:40 nice wikipedia entry :P Jun 16 17:42:41 thats me! Jun 16 17:42:56 you guys made postal eh? Jun 16 17:43:02 that we did Jun 16 17:43:05 * nullitydown_ curses the bouncy work internet access... Jun 16 17:43:29 and were hopefully makin postal mobile and postal babes mobile for pre Jun 16 17:43:36 nice Jun 16 17:43:44 the pre goes postal... Jun 16 17:43:49 Did anyone here use the Sharp Zaurus? Jun 16 17:44:00 haha Jun 16 17:44:09 sounds about right Jun 16 17:44:09 djk: I used to Jun 16 17:44:14 hopefully palm wont reject a postal app Jun 16 17:44:35 djk: both a 5500 and a 3200 Jun 16 17:44:56 yeah i'm interested to see how strict they are compared to apple Jun 16 17:44:58 mikejaret, palm has been quite accepting of folks so far imho Jun 16 17:45:04 no doubt.... Jun 16 17:45:14 apple is gay...we have made mac products since the beginning Jun 16 17:45:21 summatusmentis: It had a great active community like we're seeing here with the Pre. I just hope Palm watches and listens to us Jun 16 17:45:26 and they wont recognize our postal version for mac Jun 16 17:45:34 only place to get it is from us Jun 16 17:45:37 lol, the god phone is going to kick the jesus phone to the curb it seems... Jun 16 17:45:45 lol Jun 16 17:45:59 djk: it did for a while Jun 16 17:46:04 mikejaret: apple is what? Jun 16 17:46:14 gay Jun 16 17:46:31 LAME Jun 16 17:46:34 stupid Jun 16 17:46:37 retared.... Jun 16 17:46:39 tell me, in what way is the Apple corporation homosexual? Jun 16 17:46:59 i don't think he meant homosexual summatusmentis Jun 16 17:47:02 they only like other male apples Jun 16 17:47:06 corporations don't have sex Jun 16 17:47:12 The Pre is pretty good about removing contacts that it synced from GMail, but it will NOT delete the GoogleTalk contacts it synced, even after I've deleted them in GMail / GTalk Jun 16 17:47:15 anyone seen this? Jun 16 17:47:34 is it the fact they only prefer little boys? Jun 16 17:47:39 bdumm: clearly not. Jun 16 17:47:40 i dont use gtalk on my pre Jun 16 17:47:48 me either Jun 16 17:47:52 I've noticed it won't let you delete facebook contacts, if only there were a way to hide them Jun 16 17:47:54 thats why i want to remove them :) Jun 16 17:47:59 neighter aim Jun 16 17:48:00 mikejaret: I don't mean to jump down your throat, I react before thinking sometimes. Do you mind not using the word gay that way? Jun 16 17:48:01 Bkuberek: I know a few corporations that seriously needs to get laid. Jun 16 17:48:10 gtalk on the pre is nice....for synergy, so i can talk to my bro on his bberry thru gtalk and have seemless msging Jun 16 17:48:12 rulethirty: Did you remove the account from the Contacts app? Jun 16 17:48:19 Smashcubed; thats probably the same issue Jun 16 17:48:41 jblebrun; i try but it says it cant delete Google Talk contacts Jun 16 17:48:52 so i go into gmail and gtalk and erase them Jun 16 17:48:59 mikejaret, what kinds of issues/problems are you dealing with for postal/pre? Jun 16 17:48:59 i could give a damn whos in my google contacts Jun 16 17:49:04 I think if you sync again it'll remove them Jun 16 17:49:11 rulethirty: In the Contacts app, go to the Accounts/Preferences pane Jun 16 17:49:13 it removed all the gmail contacts Jun 16 17:49:17 rulethirty: And remove the entire account Jun 16 17:49:18 but kept all the google talk ones Jun 16 17:49:25 bdumm: no issues yet, we arent the mobile devs, they are in kaliningrad and moscow. but i dont think they have the sdk yet Jun 16 17:49:29 i did, but they remained Jun 16 17:49:30 it sucks that it don't sync with "my Contacts" from gmail Jun 16 17:49:31 :( Jun 16 17:49:32 Lurking_Grue: hahaha Jun 16 17:49:36 it syncs with all contacs Jun 16 17:49:39 = fail Jun 16 17:49:40 oH that lovely sdk Jun 16 17:49:44 maybe they will fix that Jun 16 17:49:54 Weird Jun 16 17:49:54 en0x Jun 16 17:49:55 what u mean Jun 16 17:49:56 ? Jun 16 17:49:56 i hope it syncs with my tasks soon! Jun 16 17:49:59 i think it should ask you about if you want to sync them Jun 16 17:50:02 and ask which ones Jun 16 17:50:24 rulethirty: I don't like that it syncs contacts when you add a chat account Jun 16 17:50:26 now ive got some people i emailed once in gmail that somehow associated with google talk and now cant be deleted Jun 16 17:50:28 Interesting if you watch TV while charging it still drains the battery Jun 16 17:50:37 no it doesnt Jun 16 17:50:38 lol Jun 16 17:50:44 who the hell watchs sprinttv? Jun 16 17:50:47 me Jun 16 17:50:48 its lame as shit Jun 16 17:50:51 lol i pay for it Jun 16 17:50:55 the extra has some decent channels Jun 16 17:50:59 rulethirty: But It did remove all the contacts when I removed the account from the Preferences & Accounts pane of the Contacts app... so that's weird that it's not working from you Jun 16 17:50:59 but the premium is LAME Jun 16 17:50:59 and nascar Jun 16 17:51:00 atlanta: all the contacts what you have in gmail you have two main groups right? you have "my contacts" and "all contacts" it should give you the option to sync only to my contacts Jun 16 17:51:04 vzwtv is way better Jun 16 17:51:13 rulethiry: You can change Gmail's behavior to not immediately add contacts to your list Jun 16 17:51:15 hmm... when creating my unpriviliged user account and setting the password, i had a password mismatch and received the message that the password is unchanged. anyone care to help me out with the command to set a password? Jun 16 17:51:18 @en0x ok got you Jun 16 17:51:29 jblebrun: how? Jun 16 17:51:30 jblebrun; i should do that Jun 16 17:51:34 jblebrun; where abouts? Jun 16 17:51:34 what all comes on the sprinttv extra pack? Jun 16 17:51:50 espn Jun 16 17:51:53 nbc Jun 16 17:52:05 nullitydown_: as root, `passwd ` will let you define a password for Jun 16 17:52:15 mikejaret: They need to ditch it and give us a hulu app... and then we all go over 5 gigs Jun 16 17:52:19 @Hamzifer Jun 16 17:52:21 hahahahah for sure Jun 16 17:52:22 i wouldnt recommend it Jun 16 17:52:25 hulu wud be the dope Jun 16 17:52:30 EVEN if it was only on wifi id dig it Jun 16 17:52:38 thanks hamzifer! Jun 16 17:52:52 @nullitydown_ dont put a password on root Jun 16 17:52:57 Lurking_Grue: hulu app would be nice ;) Jun 16 17:53:00 en0x: I remember seeing the option a while back... I'm looking for it again but Google's contact manager has changed since the last time I looked Jun 16 17:53:04 yeah i'd get fired real soon if they came out with a hulu app Jun 16 17:53:05 atlanta: he's not trying to, re-read the question and my response. Jun 16 17:53:15 oh Jun 16 17:53:16 opps Jun 16 17:53:17 lol Jun 16 17:53:18 meh i just watch hulu on my computer at work Jun 16 17:53:23 my bad Jun 16 17:53:31 they were talking about charging for hulu Jun 16 17:53:35 that would suck Jun 16 17:53:46 wow that wud suk Jun 16 17:53:48 En0x: What would putting a password on root do? Jun 16 17:54:12 thx for teh caution, atlanta. ( : i'll refrain from doing that if the urge ever catches me Jun 16 17:54:23 @Lurking_Grue would lock out Jun 16 17:54:26 some internal programs Jun 16 17:54:26 Anybody know where to begin if I wanted to have my pre's LED's flash when I get a SMS until I dismiss it? Jun 16 17:54:34 You have to Jun 16 17:54:41 add on to the listener event Jun 16 17:54:45 for the messages Jun 16 17:55:00 where do I find that? Jun 16 17:55:03 blinking LED would be sweet Jun 16 17:55:05 so heres what appears to have happened Jun 16 17:55:14 the Google Talk contacts are now in the Palm contacts list Jun 16 17:55:18 com.palm.app.messaging Jun 16 17:55:23 DNIc ya i agreeeeee Jun 16 17:55:31 i havent yet found the led functions in mojo Jun 16 17:55:34 and that list is not modifiable from my best guessses Jun 16 17:55:34 Oh, I'm gonna make a sweet flashing light pattern, I'll upload it to the wiki when it's made, I just don't know where to put it Jun 16 17:55:36 but will mess with it tonight Jun 16 17:55:43 do the LEDs have have more than one color? It wold nice if they lit up when charging showing red while charging and green when 100% Jun 16 17:55:49 @djk Jun 16 17:55:49 no Jun 16 17:56:11 and @Smashcubed you need to find the mojo led functions first Jun 16 17:56:13 i would rather see the center button to light up on message Jun 16 17:56:17 than LED Jun 16 17:56:17 which i havent seem to find yet Jun 16 17:56:26 well center button is a LED Jun 16 17:56:27 blinking led's wud be tight tight Jun 16 17:56:36 en0x Jun 16 17:56:37 center button is an LED? Jun 16 17:56:38 found the setttting Jun 16 17:56:39 Auto-add suggested contacts: Jun 16 17:56:47 @smmatusmentis yea it is Jun 16 17:56:49 Automatically allow people I communicate with often to chat with me and see when I'm online. Learn more Jun 16 17:56:52 djk, just one color Jun 16 17:56:56 i'd like a way to lock the volume buttons. i'm tired of my case turning the ringer all the way down Jun 16 17:56:56 intensity can be changed Jun 16 17:56:57 [X] Only allow people that I've explicitly approved to chat with me and see when I'm online. Jun 16 17:57:00 but color is fixed Jun 16 17:57:06 en0x: Ok, Gmail has changed a bunch since the last time I saw that feature, so nevermind :( Jun 16 17:57:09 yay customizing icons and pictures on the phone is easy! :) Jun 16 17:57:14 There were commands to turn on the led's and the camera flash before, were those mojo or linux? Jun 16 17:57:15 brb break time Jun 16 17:57:25 rulethirty: gotcha Jun 16 17:57:30 atlanta: that's really cool. You guys should figure out LEDs :) Jun 16 17:57:35 will see if it will work Jun 16 17:57:38 linux can easily touch those bits to turn stuff on/off at will Jun 16 17:57:49 or maybe the two small light on sides of center butto Jun 16 17:57:50 n Jun 16 17:57:58 let say left one for text right for missed call Jun 16 17:58:02 :) that would be nice Jun 16 17:58:03 ;] Jun 16 17:58:29 screw it Jun 16 17:58:34 im going to find out where the contacts live Jun 16 17:58:34 hrmm .. Jun 16 17:58:36 nah Jun 16 17:58:38 and manually delete them Jun 16 17:58:43 christ Jun 16 17:58:45 I'd rather say flashing outward pattern missed call, flashing inward pattern text Jun 16 17:58:57 im ok with just blinking for any notification Jun 16 17:59:35 Oh, i have another idea I'm working on Jun 16 17:59:36 blinking and playing sound Jun 16 17:59:43 "u got mail motherf...ker" Jun 16 17:59:46 heh worry about what kind of blink after the fact i would think Jun 16 17:59:57 I'm going to take the iPhone's autocorrect file and modify it to replace the pre's Jun 16 18:00:01 i got that mail mofucka sound Jun 16 18:00:07 mikejaret: hehe Jun 16 18:00:17 though i do like the to 2 leds to the left and right of the center Jun 16 18:00:26 autocorrection suck ass Jun 16 18:00:48 when i type something in different lang it corrects it to english Jun 16 18:00:48 :S Jun 16 18:00:59 well I'd get rid of the ones that I find annoying of course, but I like the idea of smashing my fingers wherever and still getting the word right Jun 16 18:01:00 en0x: You can edit it Jun 16 18:01:08 fuck autocorrect Jun 16 18:01:11 rulethirty: I think they are in the main sqlite database Jun 16 18:01:16 pocek: how? Jun 16 18:01:24 there is an autocorrect file Jun 16 18:01:27 when it corrects I should press delete key? Jun 16 18:01:35 in the form: | Jun 16 18:01:38 like with the capital letters? :> Jun 16 18:01:46 newegg doesn't have anything bigger than 2GB Jun 16 18:01:51 i want double space bar for a period Jun 16 18:01:51 wow, sorry, wrong window Jun 16 18:02:06 bpadalino|work: does it use aspell for autocorrection? Jun 16 18:02:06 where do most of the user settings live? Jun 16 18:02:07 What I think will be more difficult is adding the double space to replace with '. ' Jun 16 18:02:09 what path? Jun 16 18:02:14 en0x: /etc/palm/autoreplace/ Jun 16 18:02:19 doesn't look possible, none of the auto corrections have spaces in them Jun 16 18:02:26 pocek: i didnt rooted my pre Jun 16 18:02:45 i mean its cuz the period is right there and not a 2ndary button Jun 16 18:02:46 /etc/palm/text-edit-autoreplace Jun 16 18:02:46 en0x: don't complain then ;) Jun 16 18:02:50 where is the phone users settings stored? Jun 16 18:02:51 what are you doing here without a rooted pre? Jun 16 18:03:01 2475 entries Jun 16 18:03:13 pocek: why shouldn't I Jun 16 18:03:21 they should give u an option to turn that off Jun 16 18:03:33 Smashcubed: watching u Jun 16 18:03:47 rulethirty: I would examine /usr/lib/luna/PalmDatabase.db3 Jun 16 18:04:00 there is also an autoreplace for different languages based on /etc/palm/autoreplace/en_us .. or es_us .. Jun 16 18:04:06 How big do you think the Pre can handle autocorrections? Once I'm done with the iPhone's autocorrect, I wouldn't be surprised if it were 150,000 entries Jun 16 18:04:11 arg Jun 16 18:04:16 hi Jun 16 18:04:17 is that a sqlite3 db? Jun 16 18:04:23 smashcubed, run some tests and see how big it is ? Jun 16 18:04:27 yes Jun 16 18:04:28 Anyone has the .config from installed linux kernel? Jun 16 18:04:37 hrm Jun 16 18:04:47 wonder where contacts are stored Jun 16 18:04:50 Also things get stored under the /var/luna/data folder as well so you may want to check there too Jun 16 18:06:05 for people who want to change the fonts .. Jun 16 18:06:09 whats if /var/palm/data ? Jun 16 18:06:16 in /etc/palm/luna.conf - you can edit the fonts used Jun 16 18:06:21 in& Jun 16 18:06:30 Well, iPhone's autocorrect is a list of correct words. I'll have to run it through and make an entry for every misspelling, one key left and one key right. A 5 character word will have 3^ entries Jun 16 18:06:45 3^5 Jun 16 18:07:06 hmm, anyone with root access could check if there is a /proc/config file? Jun 16 18:07:08 http://predev.wikidot.com/vnc Jun 16 18:07:08 rulethirty: I see contact pictures, email messages and attachments, im avatars, mms messages, and system customization file Jun 16 18:07:17 instructions for running vnc Jun 16 18:07:41 rulethirty: PalmDatabase.db3 has a com_palm_pim_Contact table Jun 16 18:07:47 smashcubed, that may require some different type of autocorrection algorithm instead of the trivial one palm has Jun 16 18:08:06 I have another question: Where is my music stored? When I connect it like a usb drive, where is the stuff really going? Jun 16 18:08:31 smashcubed, /media/internal is where it is mounted Jun 16 18:08:33 ./media/internal Jun 16 18:08:37 oops ;) Jun 16 18:08:38 k thanks Jun 16 18:09:18 look at that .. Jun 16 18:09:19 in fact there are a number of com_palm_pim_* tables that are probably inter-related Jun 16 18:09:33 well, Palm can made some kind of luna aspell service and just provide spell checking everywhere Jun 16 18:09:34 so I doubt you can just delete a row in a table and be okay :( Jun 16 18:09:34 /usr/lib/BrowserPlugins is where the plugins are for LunaMediaAdapter .. OfficeAdapter .. Jun 16 18:09:36 PDFAdapter Jun 16 18:09:44 k contacts are definitely in /var/luna/data/dbdata/PalmDatabase.db3 Jun 16 18:09:45 what program are you guys using to ssh Jun 16 18:09:53 s/made/make/ Jun 16 18:10:06 Putty. Jun 16 18:10:11 analog1: if you use windows, putty is one of the better ssh clients (and it's free) Jun 16 18:10:17 ah okay, the copy in /usr/lib/data must be the empty template Jun 16 18:10:19 yeah i have putty Jun 16 18:10:27 er, /usr/lib/luna that is Jun 16 18:10:28 but i was hoping there was something i could paste into :P Jun 16 18:10:39 putty will paste with the right mouse button Jun 16 18:10:45 o Jun 16 18:10:55 has anyone tried to go to a webpage which brings up a popup to see if the browser will just open another card for the popup ? Jun 16 18:11:12 not I Jun 16 18:11:17 Terminal Jun 16 18:11:18 oh - nevermind .. browser.conf has .. Jun 16 18:11:26 --nopush-pop-elimination Jun 16 18:11:46 darn Jun 16 18:11:54 theres like a million tables in this db Jun 16 18:11:55 heh Jun 16 18:12:12 argh; why is the wifi so laggy Jun 16 18:12:26 screw this; going in on novaterm Jun 16 18:12:44 i just want a terminal app to open in gui Jun 16 18:12:46 and i'm done Jun 16 18:12:53 rulethirty: Well, the good news is that there seem to be triggers set up to handle some of the inter-related complexity automatically Jun 16 18:13:04 en0x, same here ;) Jun 16 18:13:17 so i can ssh, irc Jun 16 18:13:22 nod Jun 16 18:13:23 use terminal based apps Jun 16 18:13:23 ;] Jun 16 18:13:36 and watch ascii p0rn Jun 16 18:13:55 mmm ascii pr0n Jun 16 18:14:06 bsiegel; what do you mean? Jun 16 18:14:20 heh Jun 16 18:14:24 whare Jun 16 18:15:08 en0x - maybe if you get mplayer going you could render some pr0n in ascii Jun 16 18:15:16 libcaca Jun 16 18:15:17 ;d Jun 16 18:15:32 and it would be a color ascii pr0n Jun 16 18:15:35 http://oreilly.com/pub/h/4441 Jun 16 18:16:02 oh youre familiar with it Jun 16 18:16:02 haha Jun 16 18:16:09 hehe Jun 16 18:16:13 does anyone know how to issue console commmands from the webos yet? is it even possible or did they lock things out Jun 16 18:16:37 rulethirty: its fun u can watch it over ssh ;) no sound but u can still watch it ;) Jun 16 18:16:59 so contacts live in /var/luna/data/datadb/PalmDatabase.db3: com_palm_pim_Contact Jun 16 18:17:13 creating backup now Jun 16 18:17:17 anyone know what the java app is for? i've got a java process running between 5 and 30% cpu usage. if i strace and attach the process it's just sitting in "futex(0xd437c, FUTEX_WAIT, 19, NULL". i'm wondering if this has anything to do with my inability to charge the device right now (and having the back running hot to the touch) Jun 16 18:17:21 backticks, like perl? Jun 16 18:17:31 didn't know anyone was using webOS coding yet Jun 16 18:17:33 is the GPS satellite based or cell tower? Just thinking they could download a trips set of maps so it still work when in a remote no cell area Jun 16 18:17:41 rulethirty: try running .schema Jun 16 18:17:49 i think GPS uses both Jun 16 18:17:57 er rather location awareness uses both Jun 16 18:18:00 you will see that for example the pim_Contact table has triggers for when you add or delete a row Jun 16 18:18:05 it updates other tables Jun 16 18:18:06 GPS is sattelite Jun 16 18:18:09 agps uses both Jun 16 18:18:32 mikedotd, java is used for a lot of processing and IPC between all the components Jun 16 18:18:33 but I thought pre will uses sat, tower, and skyhook to get geo Jun 16 18:18:47 no skyhook yet afaik Jun 16 18:18:47 so they could download the map and you can still drive to that remote location Jun 16 18:18:54 grrrr. rats. Jun 16 18:19:04 cell tower data at my house is always way off Jun 16 18:19:05 argh... vi... i'm trying to get out of vi without saving changes to a file, but it seems to be stuck in input mode. colons and q! appear in the file text... anyone know how to force command mode? (sorry, i did google, but coming up empty) Jun 16 18:19:16 bpadalino|work: thanks Jun 16 18:19:19 mikeDOTd: sounds like something deadlocked in java? I'd recommend rebooting the pre Jun 16 18:19:25 nullitydown_, hit escape first, then type :q! Jun 16 18:19:27 then enter Jun 16 18:19:27 nullitydown_: hit esc Jun 16 18:19:37 bsiegel: yeah, i've rebooted multiple times already Jun 16 18:19:53 oh, beat me, stupid lag/latency Jun 16 18:20:00 mikeDOTd, it's always there. Jun 16 18:20:11 mikeDOTd, have you tried using dbus-util to watch what's happening on the dbus to see what actions are occuring ? Jun 16 18:20:11 if java is being deadlocked then webOS wouldn't really function Jun 16 18:20:13 is it normal to be cranking away? Jun 16 18:20:28 hmm, esc just generates the string ^[ Jun 16 18:20:29 Not the whole thing, but one thread can be deadlocked Jun 16 18:20:42 there is a jps and jtop as well Jun 16 18:20:46 to see what's happening in java Jun 16 18:20:49 bpadalino: i think there's an IPC library for native as well Jun 16 18:20:55 why won't vi allow me to write the file even though I'm root??? Jun 16 18:20:56 ShinAli: was thinking you should look at ltrace and strace output from the beginning of luna Jun 16 18:21:08 slinali, yeah most likely correct Jun 16 18:21:30 Java seems a big part but may not be entirely central, i'm not sure Jun 16 18:21:42 my first connect, just saying hello. Jun 16 18:21:49 Some of the backend services are written in native code and some are in java. Not sure why they used both. Jun 16 18:21:52 btw, not sure if people know, but there is a -strace option for running java applications Jun 16 18:21:57 so you don't have to run it through strace Jun 16 18:22:41 bpadalino|work: I think ltrace would be useful to Jun 16 18:22:46 see what lib functions the native apps are calling Jun 16 18:22:47 shaya: i guess i could put it in a start up script Jun 16 18:22:49 never used ltrace Jun 16 18:22:51 ah Jun 16 18:23:03 its not perfect Jun 16 18:23:05 i've never used strace or ltrace, hah Jun 16 18:23:08 but can give a better idea of the flow Jun 16 18:23:12 thanks bp and summ... that worked. Jun 16 18:23:13 strace just shows you system calls Jun 16 18:23:16 what files are opened Jun 16 18:23:20 ah Jun 16 18:23:24 for instance Jun 16 18:23:33 ltrace shows you library calls as well Jun 16 18:23:51 wont exactly tell you whats going on, but perhaps can give you a feel for it Jun 16 18:24:00 help focus the investigation Jun 16 18:24:03 strace would be super useful for figuring out how the media adapter draws Jun 16 18:24:05 might be a good idea to stream that out the terminal as opposed to logging it in the file Jun 16 18:24:26 gets big really quickly? Jun 16 18:24:39 i can imagine any strace or ltrace will get big very quick Jun 16 18:24:41 ShinAli: I have my doubts on that Jun 16 18:24:58 as it could be just writing to memory mapped memory Jun 16 18:25:10 that would be fully opaque to strace besides for the setup Jun 16 18:25:26 how can i issue console commands via the webos UI? is their a place i should look for cluesor is that not possible yet? like say a reboot command when you press a button on your application Jun 16 18:25:30 strace -f -o /tmp/out is how I normally run it Jun 16 18:25:40 would open up alot of freedom Jun 16 18:25:59 Binarytech: you would need a backend service to provide that functionality Jun 16 18:26:07 but for rebooting there is a mojo command for that :p Jun 16 18:26:17 I'm working on such a service in java now Jun 16 18:26:23 bsiegel: one can write a windowless plugin to do it perhaps? Jun 16 18:26:29 what language is the services written in? Jun 16 18:26:36 i still haven't had much luck connecting to the dbus yet Jun 16 18:26:37 i.e. web interface takes a command Jun 16 18:26:40 plugin executes it Jun 16 18:26:41 Binarytech: some services are native, some are java Jun 16 18:26:47 and returns its output which web interface displays Jun 16 18:26:49 they are all communicated over dbus Jun 16 18:26:50 what bsiegel said Jun 16 18:27:10 shaya: true, but I'm much better with java than trying to learn the npapi :p Jun 16 18:27:46 I wrote a screen grabber. Jun 16 18:27:57 sargun: isn't that built in? Jun 16 18:28:10 i.e. shift-orange-p or something? Jun 16 18:28:21 shaya: that's the same thing i was thinking for shell Jun 16 18:28:24 shaya, I want to be able to do it outside of Luna. Jun 16 18:28:55 forking a shell and hooking up stdin and stdout streams to functions to javascript on the app Jun 16 18:28:56 why won't vi allow me to write the file even though I'm root??? Jun 16 18:29:18 DSouljah, the file is chmod 400 ? Jun 16 18:29:21 DSouljah: is your root filesystem rw? Jun 16 18:29:25 ShinAli: I think you'd have issues with the terminal emulator stuff Jun 16 18:29:28 to run real apps Jun 16 18:29:35 or you would be in a ro fs Jun 16 18:29:39 unless you can leverage the web terminal thingy Jun 16 18:29:41 DSouljah: the root fs might be read only Jun 16 18:29:57 first ever Jun 16 18:30:25 w00t Jun 16 18:30:31 the pastebin doesn't have a way for me to search for all webos pastes, does it ? Jun 16 18:30:37 i've just been chmod 777 -r for apps and chmod 777 if i get erros about permissions, not the best method but no major issues yet.also dont care about seurity Jun 16 18:30:38 i'm viewing the channel in a vnc window from my phone Jun 16 18:30:39 hah Jun 16 18:30:43 Sorry for the service interruption Jun 16 18:30:49 Sargun: why do you want to do it outside of luna? Jun 16 18:30:56 shaya, why not Jun 16 18:31:04 because luna may not always be running ? Jun 16 18:31:16 Incidentally to reboot, send a message to palm://com.palm.power/shutdown/machineReboot - not sure if the parameter array is optional, it probably is, but the example I saw was {"reason":""} Jun 16 18:31:30 ok :) Jun 16 18:31:41 though I seem to recall reading that perhaps that was ability built into directfb? Jun 16 18:31:46 nebula can you move around on the Pre in the VNC or stuck in the upper left view of the remote? Jun 16 18:31:56 if everything is running on directfb, might be a single function call? Jun 16 18:32:10 Binary: So... what Ip is your phone on at the moment? Jun 16 18:32:19 haha Jun 16 18:32:23 Sargun: i took a look at the Piranha lib and it seems to open up a framebuffer from linux Jun 16 18:32:35 djk: haven't figured that out yet Jun 16 18:32:36 hmm Jun 16 18:32:37 found this Jun 16 18:32:38 http://www.mail-archive.com/directfb-users@directfb.org/msg06999.html Jun 16 18:33:10 ShinAli, yeah, I got my screen grabber Jun 16 18:33:22 nebula I am guessing you are doing it with the Java client VNC Jun 16 18:33:34 oh snap Jun 16 18:33:36 djk: nope, compiled directfb version Jun 16 18:33:38 ShinAli, It seems it's hitting the frame buffer directly. Jun 16 18:33:58 yeah, that's what i'm guessing Jun 16 18:34:10 nebula you complied on the pre Jun 16 18:34:15 yeah Jun 16 18:34:17 but where is directfb being used? Jun 16 18:34:23 nebula, I thought you did it with deb? Jun 16 18:34:33 yeah, compiled within the deb chroot Jun 16 18:35:00 see prerequisites ;) Jun 16 18:35:28 PRErequisites Jun 16 18:35:31 :-P Jun 16 18:35:37 ok, wow.. my humour is touching buttom Jun 16 18:36:07 heh Jun 16 18:36:10 hah Jun 16 18:36:16 well, at least you're PREpared Jun 16 18:36:18 i'm gonna update the wiki Jun 16 18:36:22 PRErequisites Jun 16 18:37:00 feel free to tell me "RTFM", but vi is just not working for me in putty... i've heard Pico is included with the pre's distro, is there an easy way to enable/install it? Jun 16 18:37:15 apt-get install vim Jun 16 18:37:30 install ed Jun 16 18:37:30 :D Jun 16 18:37:34 thats totally not pico, but i agree with nebula Jun 16 18:37:45 i managed to make my pre hot enough where it hurts to touch Jun 16 18:37:47 how do install nano with the opt system now? Jun 16 18:37:47 or, ipkg install vi-.ipk Jun 16 18:37:49 vi/m for life Jun 16 18:37:51 well, as long as it isn't vi it is fine by me. ( : Jun 16 18:37:57 awww Jun 16 18:38:06 ShinAli, there is another editor under unix? Jun 16 18:38:08 all your vi are belong to us Jun 16 18:38:17 dreadchicken: not in my heart, no Jun 16 18:38:28 use nano Jun 16 18:38:32 vi is horrible. nano ftw Jun 16 18:38:34 vi is the only editor Jun 16 18:38:41 vim 4 life Jun 16 18:38:41 @ShinAli no use nano Jun 16 18:38:41 * dreadchicken is actually an emacs convert. Jun 16 18:38:47 so is there a list of known keys like sym-orange-p (screenshot) and sym-orange-2 (reboot) around? Jun 16 18:38:51 emacs since 1979 Jun 16 18:38:58 atlanta: what is nano that doesn't exist at all Jun 16 18:39:05 Cyberduck/smultron ftw! Jun 16 18:39:14 on my mac, i actually use textmate Jun 16 18:39:16 and i love it Jun 16 18:39:17 mtkatwork, electric c is was the hook. Jun 16 18:39:19 howdy howdy Jun 16 18:39:25 It does Jun 16 18:39:26 it does Jun 16 18:39:27 electric c & perl - all the way Jun 16 18:39:28 all lies Jun 16 18:39:29 man, i'm helpless in linux... do i need to be in / to issue the apt-get command? Jun 16 18:39:48 apt-get?? Jun 16 18:39:49 lol Jun 16 18:39:54 ipkg ftw Jun 16 18:40:03 nullitydown, is your Pre your first linux box? Jun 16 18:40:03 http://xkcd.com/378/ Jun 16 18:40:05 im having wierd issues with the ROAM ONLY hack, sometimes my phone doesnt even right, but im getting full bars.... Jun 16 18:40:05 has anyone figured out if the AcceleromaterCmd and AccelerometerEvent sockets do anything useful? Jun 16 18:40:22 has anyone gotten the Pre root thing to work from a Win7 console? - i am sure that is not the issue, but am curious... Jun 16 18:40:48 balr)g just use the windows xp virual system that comes with 7 Jun 16 18:40:51 oh, i've tinkered with linux but mostly just apache related things... never got this deep into it. Jun 16 18:41:06 dreadchicken: i have a feeling the pre is going to be many people's first linux machine, as far as they're aware at least Jun 16 18:41:22 fair enough Jun 16 18:41:27 i might suggest you linux newbies go vm yourself up a linux box and mess on it some. Jun 16 18:41:41 (off to reinstall python agan) Jun 16 18:41:45 balr0g, I attempted it numerous times with win7 and got unlazy, walked across to my living room HTPC and did my pre rooting there ;) Jun 16 18:41:52 Hamzifer, that was my point the other day...how many people's first linux box will be a Pre? Jun 16 18:41:56 lots Jun 16 18:42:35 i only started using linux heavily last year Jun 16 18:42:35 will see a lot of them in here, once they get around to rooting, "now what? help! i dont know linux!" Jun 16 18:42:42 when i finally got into them real CS classes Jun 16 18:42:44 tx psykoz - i'm not a total newb, but i was definitely hitting a wall on things that didn't make any sense Jun 16 18:42:50 I've been using unix since 1980 or so and linux since the mid 90's. Jun 16 18:43:05 I should run a web server off my pre. Jun 16 18:43:06 i wish there was a way to force roam on vzw and make it work fully.... Jun 16 18:43:20 smashcubed: u should run a tf2 server off your pre :D Jun 16 18:43:29 heh Jun 16 18:43:33 Smashcubed: and drain the battery quick ;-) Jun 16 18:43:37 i'll have to do that, dread. hate to bother you all with these newbie questions... i just want to get things set to where i can start working on apps. Jun 16 18:43:53 i don't think there are any arm binaries for tf2 server :| Jun 16 18:44:04 my point isn't to scare you new folks off, but to point out that it's a new os and exploring in a vm might be a better place than possibly destroying your comms device. Jun 16 18:44:07 It can be a live webcam, see me wherever i go whenever Jun 16 18:44:38 Smashcubed, already there :P Jun 16 18:44:42 arm -> qemu -> tf2 Jun 16 18:44:48 i've ordered a beagleboard to help me learn some arm Jun 16 18:44:56 shinali, interesting .. Jun 16 18:44:58 I have done the tf2 dedicated server thing before, it wouldn't be too hard. Jun 16 18:45:07 how about the new gumstix? Jun 16 18:45:08 lol Jun 16 18:45:10 and a good point indeed, dread. i'm sticking strictly to the wiki procedures so i don't premabrick my pre, but i'm definitely learning the scope of that which i must learn. heh Jun 16 18:45:21 Why would you want to run a tf2 server off the pre? Jun 16 18:45:28 because you can? Jun 16 18:45:35 why WOULDN'T you? Jun 16 18:45:35 The IP address changes from sprint would kill :/ Jun 16 18:45:37 nullitydown: I don't think anyone has figured out way to actually brick the pre Jun 16 18:45:38 I have thttpd running on mine, serving up photos from my album Jun 16 18:45:39 even with dyndns Jun 16 18:45:41 Exactly, why NOT run a tf2 web server off a pre? Jun 16 18:45:52 i kickstarted a linux box off my pre, tftp and all. Jun 16 18:45:53 technically i'm not sure you can, since i dont think it has enough cpu power nor ram to handle a tf2 server with more than one person ;) Jun 16 18:45:55 its all fixable from the webos doctor Jun 16 18:46:06 Hamzifer> technically i'm not sure you can, since i dont think it has enough cpu power nor ram to handle a tf2 server with more than one person ;) < good point Jun 16 18:46:10 800 Mhz is more than enough power to run a web server Jun 16 18:46:14 the pre is after all a phone Jun 16 18:46:22 >.> Not really made to be a server Jun 16 18:46:23 it's a 500MHz processor Jun 16 18:46:26 Hamzifer: if it were running through qemu then probably Jun 16 18:46:27 and it's running a LOT of other things Jun 16 18:46:36 same answer then - 500 Mhz is still more than enough for a web server Jun 16 18:46:37 people ran web servers on 33mhz 386s Jun 16 18:46:41 exactly Jun 16 18:46:44 but i'm willing to bet it'll run a q3 dedicated server pretty well Jun 16 18:46:56 Well I've seen how it chugs on NES emulators, I'm sure there's a lot of efficiency issues Jun 16 18:46:58 quake3's possible, given how old that is Jun 16 18:47:01 and stop LunaSysMgr if you need the horsepower and memory. Jun 16 18:47:04 >.> 'Look I can run tf2 server on my pre for 5 minutes before it shuts down from overheating' Jun 16 18:47:04 is tf2 the kernel-ebedded web server? Jun 16 18:47:13 anyways Jun 16 18:47:15 back to work Jun 16 18:47:21 mtkatwork: tf2 is team fortress 2, the game by valve Jun 16 18:47:36 got it Jun 16 18:48:22 there is a linux kernel option that embeds a web server in the kernel (one system call). it is very efficient. Jun 16 18:48:28 I wonder if it's possible to setup an asterisk server that uses your cellphone modem but allows phone connect over voip on the same wifi network to dial out and pick up calls Jun 16 18:48:38 Tilton53, not yet Jun 16 18:48:39 for static pages mtkatwork, khttpd Jun 16 18:48:45 tilton53: twisted and beautiful at the same time. Jun 16 18:48:56 deadchicken: that's it. Jun 16 18:49:06 :3 that be a nice way of just having one phone bill, you go home and when it connects to wifi and allows you to pickup calls on home phones Jun 16 18:49:07 >.> Jun 16 18:49:26 there're quite a few web servers in optware Jun 16 18:49:32 including nginx, cherokee Jun 16 18:49:42 lighttpd Jun 16 18:49:44 i just wish this phone had built in UMA...like tmobile Jun 16 18:49:44 how hard would it be for google voice to extend a call to your pre with the right client? Jun 16 18:49:50 fuck airrave 15 a month shit Jun 16 18:49:51 Yeah can get some very light webservers Jun 16 18:49:52 thttpd is what i installed. Jun 16 18:50:03 you can* Jun 16 18:50:11 heh UPS jsut dropped off my free airave Jun 16 18:50:20 sprint WILL NOT give me one Jun 16 18:50:23 they have told me over and over Jun 16 18:50:26 cancel if youd like Jun 16 18:50:27 DNIc, how did you get one for Free? Jun 16 18:50:28 howdya get it free? Jun 16 18:50:47 called, talked to accts (retentions) and complained about my signal Jun 16 18:50:48 lighttpd is nice, but you would have to do a lot of configuration Jun 16 18:50:48 nebula, just call them up and be nice. Jun 16 18:50:57 it helped that i dropped the call twice during hte call Jun 16 18:51:02 otherwise it could use a lot more memory then you want Jun 16 18:51:02 i did Jun 16 18:51:02 :/ Jun 16 18:51:05 thttpd is...well, trivial. Jun 16 18:51:15 3 times' Jun 16 18:51:57 mikejaret, were you nice or adversarial? Jun 16 18:52:16 first time adversial Jun 16 18:52:21 second time nice Jun 16 18:53:32 i'm callin now Jun 16 18:53:42 they are gay Jun 16 18:53:55 i cant believe how many times tey told me....well sir you are in your first 30 days Jun 16 18:53:57 you can cancel Jun 16 18:54:04 do you mind not using gay tha way? Jun 16 18:54:12 ya good call Jun 16 18:54:15 heh yea talke to accts, CS wont do anything Jun 16 18:54:40 are you a homosexual and it offends you? Jun 16 18:54:46 how are folks copying files to the Pre? Jun 16 18:54:50 I do find it offensive, yes Jun 16 18:54:54 is anyone SFTP / SCP ? Jun 16 18:54:59 SCP or USB Jun 16 18:55:03 mikejaret: calm down, ops are here and watching Jun 16 18:55:09 i wasnt acting up Jun 16 18:55:11 i was just asking Jun 16 18:55:12 scp times out Jun 16 18:55:21 yea im fine with usb Jun 16 18:56:04 with dropbear scp doesnt work? Jun 16 18:56:36 I'm using SFTP Jun 16 18:57:05 scp works fine with dropbear, and sftp works w/ dropbear if you install openssh-sftp-server Jun 16 18:58:14 * analog1 crosses fingers that he didn't screw up the phone modding the global search as he waits for the phone to reboot Jun 16 18:59:04 it was nice that palm left these utils laying around so we could actually use a browser (like links2) to download .doc files and view them on the phone... since the luna/webkit browser doesn't know what to do with doctypes that have associated apps... Jun 16 18:59:16 cd /usr/lib Jun 16 18:59:18 oops Jun 16 18:59:29 imho associated apps are bad Jun 16 18:59:34 it should be like if you click a link Jun 16 18:59:46 it should ask you if you want to go or open it in a pdf viewer or something Jun 16 18:59:50 or save Jun 16 18:59:51 ;) Jun 16 18:59:56 yeah, it doesn't do that even Jun 16 18:59:58 like in tweed when you tap on a tweet Jun 16 19:00:23 I'd like to see some GUI file management stuff Jun 16 19:00:33 tru.dat Jun 16 19:00:39 has anyone seen the error: ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '' when trying to root? Jun 16 19:01:46 yes Jun 16 19:02:14 weird Jun 16 19:02:16 sargun- causes, solutions? Jun 16 19:02:48 what's the command to rename a file Jun 16 19:02:53 mv Jun 16 19:04:32 mvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv Jun 16 19:04:35 like mooove Jun 16 19:04:46 ? Jun 16 19:04:53 mv file newfile Jun 16 19:05:00 we got 200 peepz Jun 16 19:05:02 neat Jun 16 19:05:06 thanks Jun 16 19:05:07 neat. Jun 16 19:05:08 @analog1 Jun 16 19:05:09 np Jun 16 19:05:20 so how do i register my little helloworld app with the pre? Jun 16 19:05:27 now that its in /usr/palm/applications/ Jun 16 19:05:32 i'm banning hertzi_ for ruining our 200 peepz high Jun 16 19:06:01 :-P Jun 16 19:06:02 lol Jun 16 19:06:10 rulethirty: Restart LunaSysMgr Jun 16 19:06:17 how do i become ops with you guys Jun 16 19:06:56 atlanta, secret handshake and lots of beer. Jun 16 19:07:04 ha Jun 16 19:07:08 :-p Jun 16 19:07:35 unfortunately i have 2 clients in here too ..:( Jun 16 19:07:38 does anyone have any insight into the int() with base 10:'' issue? Jun 16 19:08:01 i have 0 firewalls/antivirus running Jun 16 19:08:14 jblebrun: heh... I've been looking for the right luna message to send to do that for 10 minutes Jun 16 19:08:22 Balr0g: firewalls/anti-virus shouldn't matter wrt base 10 Jun 16 19:08:34 lol dreadchicken Jun 16 19:08:35 im down Jun 16 19:09:00 alright i should go do that intership job thing Jun 16 19:09:55 Give me something else that needs done with the pre Jun 16 19:09:59 im running out of things to mod Jun 16 19:10:21 whee - i just restarted everything, and now i'm getting errno 10053! is this pogress? lol Jun 16 19:10:35 add copy paste functionality to non editable text atlanta Jun 16 19:10:38 and now i'm back to base 10 Jun 16 19:10:39 pooh Jun 16 19:10:44 jblebrun; so the mere presence of something in /usr/palm/applications will show up? Jun 16 19:10:52 yes Jun 16 19:11:00 jblebrun; how can you readily restart LunaSysMgr? Jun 16 19:11:09 rulethirty: yes. Jun 16 19:11:11 atlanta: can you get a flashing LED pattern on the phone when an SMS comes in, and dismiss it when the text is read? Jun 16 19:11:16 rulethirty: stop LunaSysMgr; start LunaSysMgr Jun 16 19:11:18 mikejaret good challege Jun 16 19:11:19 hmm, I think if some member of the community had the SDK, QEMU (under the LGPL) would be fair game to copy Jun 16 19:11:27 jblebrun; ah from CLI Jun 16 19:11:35 rulethirty: yes Jun 16 19:11:38 pkill LunaSysMgr is what i was doing Jun 16 19:11:48 mikeDg: also works :-) Jun 16 19:11:56 mikeDG: It feels brutish, though ;-) Jun 16 19:12:04 got a list of stuff youve done atlanta? Jun 16 19:12:06 bsiegel: a luna message to kill the sysmgr? Jun 16 19:12:21 keeping an SSH connection on this thing is a non-starter Jun 16 19:12:21 atlanta: find out how luna works from top to bottom Jun 16 19:12:53 pkill will HUP ? Jun 16 19:12:56 i think the pre already has arm binutils built in Jun 16 19:13:06 The accelerometer is taunting me Jun 16 19:13:45 @ShinAli Jun 16 19:13:55 ill grab all the Luna stuff when i get home Jun 16 19:14:12 Im trying to figure out the core access files Jun 16 19:14:18 also make an opengl app run in webOS Jun 16 19:14:21 the stuff that interface mojo with OS level Jun 16 19:14:21 ALSO Jun 16 19:14:22 ALSO Jun 16 19:14:36 port q3a over said app Jun 16 19:14:47 lol damn you got alot for me to do Jun 16 19:14:48 you've got 24 hours Jun 16 19:14:49 indeed Jun 16 19:14:50 i love it Jun 16 19:14:51 has anyone tried to see if the video accelerator is being used ? Jun 16 19:14:54 then you give me ops Jun 16 19:14:54 lmfao Jun 16 19:14:57 dreadchicken, interesting development btw, with that script thing Jun 16 19:15:20 yes j0sh ? Jun 16 19:15:24 executing the script manually works, and copying the script 3 times works Jun 16 19:15:26 but Jun 16 19:15:33 bpadalino|work: i'm pretty sure it is, but i don't have any evidence :( Jun 16 19:15:34 putting the command in 1 script 3 times Jun 16 19:15:36 does not work Jun 16 19:15:41 shinali, :( Jun 16 19:15:41 ShinAli: Have you built any native ARM executables that run on the device? Jun 16 19:15:45 how weird is that Jun 16 19:15:52 j0sh, that's just odd. fsck? Jun 16 19:15:58 yeah iunno Jun 16 19:16:00 jblebrun: i wrote a hello world in C and it ran Jun 16 19:16:11 With the Codesourcery Lite tools? Jun 16 19:16:14 jblebrun: no a message to register a new app Jun 16 19:16:27 jblebrun: nah, i used the gnu-gcc arm Jun 16 19:16:35 from ipkg-opt Jun 16 19:16:39 but i'll look at that Jun 16 19:16:48 shinali, compiling on the device ? Jun 16 19:16:49 Anybody got bash commands to run from a webos app Jun 16 19:16:49 ? Jun 16 19:16:58 bpadalino|work: yup it compiled on the device Jun 16 19:17:01 ah Jun 16 19:17:04 atlanta: no, but working on it Jun 16 19:17:14 ShinAli: Someone suggested that Palm uses the Codesourcery toolchain... I was just downloading it now. Jun 16 19:17:17 actually i think i can compile on my mac and put it on the pre as well Jun 16 19:17:19 i think tonight i want to try to setup a cross compile setup on my laptop Jun 16 19:17:27 oh, nice ShinAli. your new c development box? Jun 16 19:17:32 shinali, if you could write up directions - i'd appreciate it Jun 16 19:17:51 bpadalino|work: for cross compiling or on-device compiling? Jun 16 19:17:54 i wrote code on my psion 3/3a years ago in OPL. Jun 16 19:17:57 cross Jun 16 19:18:01 ShinAli: Do you have arm cross tools that run on OS X? Jun 16 19:18:05 aight Jun 16 19:18:22 but i'll take a look at codesourcery as well Jun 16 19:18:31 they have solutions for linux and windows Jun 16 19:18:32 but not os x Jun 16 19:18:37 someone mind copying their /usr/lib/luna/system/luna-applauncher/stylesheets/global-search.css file and sending it over? Jun 16 19:18:51 analog, you can get the file through the webos doctor jar file Jun 16 19:18:55 Codesourcery doesn't have an OS X build :( Jun 16 19:18:56 bpadalino|work: you can get the gcc arm compiler stuff from macports Jun 16 19:19:11 shinali, slick - whats the name of the package ? Jun 16 19:19:12 bpadalino|work, how do i use webos doctor jar Jun 16 19:19:17 gcc-arm ? Jun 16 19:19:30 analog1, it's a zip file i believe .. Jun 16 19:19:33 so unzip it .. Jun 16 19:19:35 where Jun 16 19:19:36 bpadalino|work: i used arm-elf-gcc Jun 16 19:19:39 then there will be a rootfs.tar Jun 16 19:19:57 shinali, let me put this on a new wiki page Jun 16 19:19:59 does palm's webbrowser do any audio streaming by chance? Jun 16 19:20:03 heh no doubt Jun 16 19:20:28 i think arm-none-linuyx-gnueabi-gcc might be better though Jun 16 19:20:31 arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc @2005q3-2 (cross, devel) Jun 16 19:20:38 haha Jun 16 19:20:38 yeah Jun 16 19:20:39 i see references to gnuabi everywhere on the pre Jun 16 19:20:44 *installs* Jun 16 19:20:44 psykoz: It played when I loaded an MP3 url, and I think it started playing before the download finished Jun 16 19:20:45 hah Jun 16 19:20:49 where is it on the wiki? Jun 16 19:20:58 how do i access the webos doctor? Jun 16 19:21:09 where is it located? Jun 16 19:21:15 analog1: http://www.palm.com/rom Jun 16 19:21:16 Let's hope ports will play nice today. Jun 16 19:21:18 bsiegel, yeah was looking for if it had any actual mms:// support of any kind Jun 16 19:22:46 psykoz: it might, i saw a bunch of windows media decoders Jun 16 19:23:13 oh wait mms Jun 16 19:23:36 argh. Jun 16 19:23:37 ports fail. Jun 16 19:23:46 oh .. Jun 16 19:23:48 ports didn't work, huh ? Jun 16 19:24:11 how do i get my local pre wifi IP when im at work and dont have access to the router? Jun 16 19:24:19 click on the Jun 16 19:24:20 wifi name Jun 16 19:24:25 in the list on the top Jun 16 19:24:29 perferences Jun 16 19:24:35 then it will be in the info Jun 16 19:24:38 brb Jun 16 19:25:09 I'm trying to make it work. Jun 16 19:25:32 There were some potentially useful warnings. Jun 16 19:26:07 going step by step with the directions - i got the pre into dev mode, and got it connected to the pc - when i am running the python scripot (yes, in installed python) i'm getting errors on line 48 & 27 - last nile in valueerror: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '' - any ideas how to proceed? Jun 16 19:26:18 I also found these instructions, but it looks like they won't be compiling against the right libc: http://www.ethernut.de/en/documents/cross-toolchain-osx.html Jun 16 19:27:35 ShinAli, please edit: http://predev.wikidot.com/cross-compiling - as new information comes up .. Jun 16 19:27:49 alright Jun 16 19:28:07 thanks Jun 16 19:28:14 It may just be that my ports install is fubar Jun 16 19:28:28 yeh sometimes it doesn't get all the dependencies first Jun 16 19:28:36 * nebula slaps pandora Jun 16 19:28:38 i had that problem a couple of times Jun 16 19:28:39 bad pandora Jun 16 19:28:58 * konsoleX doesn't seem to be able to receive an sms with a URL in it on the pre? wth... Jun 16 19:29:56 wtf, i got a PM on my wikidot account for help on rooting Jun 16 19:30:11 sucker Jun 16 19:30:22 yeah, I made the mistake of putting an email address Jun 16 19:30:30 I'm getting the most random help requests now Jun 16 19:30:33 i think the motto of the wiki should turn into "storm the castle" instead of "let's open this beast up" Jun 16 19:30:42 since castle is the hostname for the pre ? Jun 16 19:30:46 http://predev.wikidot.com/update-dns-hostname-from-sprint-ip Jun 16 19:30:46 ... heh.. sms came through... so slow though... weird. Jun 16 19:30:48 just added that Jun 16 19:30:50 bpadalino|work: I'm with you :) Jun 16 19:31:01 As a newbie with newbie questions and concerns, could I help stem the flow of newbie questions in this chan by becoming a wiki contributor? I'd like to ad little things to some of the procedures, such as being in 'charge only' mode when installing packages (since radio is disabled when in other modes)... that kind of stuff. Jun 16 19:31:05 agreed, it's up to rwhitby though Jun 16 19:31:06 a howto on using ez-ipupdate Jun 16 19:31:16 ad = add... i'll not add any ads, promise. Jun 16 19:31:48 bpadalino|work: castle was actually the secret product name for the pre :) Jun 16 19:32:06 nebula: it's not up to rwhitby, the wiki is emkmans Jun 16 19:32:22 shinali, even better Jun 16 19:32:23 ah, emkman then ;) Jun 16 19:32:28 ShinAli: I castle too when I feel like I'm in check. Jun 16 19:32:37 oh and the chess references come out Jun 16 19:32:38 nullitydown: There's a wiki at preguides.com targetted to helping very novice beginners get started. That may be a better place to contribute. Jun 16 19:32:47 check mate? Jun 16 19:32:48 chessssssss Jun 16 19:32:50 I sort of wish palm had built this on top of X Jun 16 19:32:54 konsole, king or queen side castle ? Jun 16 19:32:55 jble- thanks for the link. i'll check it out Jun 16 19:32:57 would have made it much more easy to deal with :) Jun 16 19:33:23 bpadalino|work: the code sourcery tool chain might not be so great Jun 16 19:33:24 Nobody's on nobody's side! Jun 16 19:33:41 it only has runtime libraries for thumb-2 Jun 16 19:33:58 ah, and #preguides might be a better chan for me until i get a better handle on linux. thx again. Jun 16 19:34:07 shinali, aren't we using the libs from the pre fs ? Jun 16 19:34:16 bpadalino|work: oh yes Jun 16 19:34:19 and linking directly against their libraries ? Jun 16 19:34:31 nullitydown: It's still forming, we're trying to get some more question-answerers to hang out in there. Jun 16 19:34:41 bpadalino|work: yeah nvm Jun 16 19:34:46 forgot bout pre Jun 16 19:35:52 not a problem at all Jun 16 19:36:53 ports can SUCK IT Jun 16 19:37:12 nub Jun 16 19:37:16 *calms down* Jun 16 19:37:23 can anyone at all help with the base 10 stuff? Jun 16 19:37:38 balr0g, what exactly is happening ? Jun 16 19:37:48 sure, to convert a base 10 number, keep dividing it by 2 Jun 16 19:37:54 the remainder is the binary digit Jun 16 19:37:55 thanks shin =P Jun 16 19:38:00 no problem Jun 16 19:38:11 when i am running talk.py Jun 16 19:38:34 it looks like the getport() function is failing Jun 16 19:38:44 is novacomd running ? Jun 16 19:38:47 Ok so the macports arm runtime set seems to be focused on Nokia Internet Tablets Jun 16 19:38:50 it ends with ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '' Jun 16 19:38:53 yeah Jun 16 19:38:56 i ran it Jun 16 19:39:06 jblebrun: yeah, we use the runtime on the pre instead Jun 16 19:39:07 is it supposed to do something post-install? Jun 16 19:39:16 balr0g, using windows i assume ? Jun 16 19:40:03 well that fixes that! Jun 16 19:40:18 badass a balr0g Jun 16 19:40:23 =/ Jun 16 19:40:48 balr0g, windows ? Jun 16 19:40:53 balr0g, which version of python ? Jun 16 19:41:03 2.6 Jun 16 19:41:07 d/l off the site Jun 16 19:41:44 2.6.2 Jun 16 19:41:47 is that the prob? Jun 16 19:41:53 should i be using the 2.6 pre bugfix? Jun 16 19:42:36 i don't think so - some people said it isn't compatible with 3.0 Jun 16 19:43:34 well, that ain't it Jun 16 19:43:46 It's probably just the print statements that are causing a problem Jun 16 19:43:55 In python 3, print is no longer a statement, it's a function Jun 16 19:44:26 Balr0g, what is the exact error: can you paste your output exactly to the webos pastebin ? Jun 16 19:45:11 i sent to your pm Jun 16 19:45:14 i see it Jun 16 19:45:49 yeah, looks like it doesn't perform the line.split .. Jun 16 19:46:02 are you POSITIVE novacomd is running? does device manager show it running ? Jun 16 19:46:05 j0sh: did you see hemna mention above that sleep 5 fixes the ppp problem? http://predev.wikidot.com/update-dns-hostname-from-sprint-ip Not sure if you were still having the update issue. Jun 16 19:46:24 bpadalino|work: it does that if novacomd does not have a port open for the Pre, even if novacomd is actually running Jun 16 19:47:12 yes - novacomd.exe Jun 16 19:47:12 oh, i didn't know that .. so if novacomd can't connect to the pre - it will error out ? Jun 16 19:47:17 if you look at the process with Process Explorer, on the tcp/ip tab, there will be 6 ports open if it is working right Jun 16 19:47:18 2,604k mem Jun 16 19:47:25 idle at 00 processor Jun 16 19:47:29 and 5 open if it is not connecting to the Pre Jun 16 19:47:34 interesting Jun 16 19:47:39 i don't use windows so i would have no idea Jun 16 19:47:46 6 ports, huh ? Jun 16 19:47:56 When the script queries novacom for the port of the Pre, if things arent working, it returns nothing (empty string "") Jun 16 19:48:03 gotcha Jun 16 19:48:14 and then when you try to split an empty string, python pukes up that error Jun 16 19:48:15 someone should update talk.py to check for a null string instead of getting this error Jun 16 19:48:33 and say something like "novacomd couldn't find your pre - are you sure it's plugged in?" Jun 16 19:48:57 so balr0g, are you sure your pre is plugged in over usb and you see, in device manager, Palm Novacom ? Jun 16 19:49:09 I still never got it to work on my laptop - novacomd goes into a loop that uses all the processor time as soon as you plug in my Pre :( Jun 16 19:49:22 :( Jun 16 19:49:34 works at home with vista though Jun 16 19:49:42 bsiegel, i am working on a "universal" one that uses libusb .. Jun 16 19:49:50 as a rewrite for novacomd Jun 16 19:50:04 gorgeous :) Jun 16 19:50:07 pre is plugged in, machine detects the usb connecct, pre is in dev mode Jun 16 19:50:17 i'm trying back from scratch, again Jun 16 19:50:36 s Jun 16 19:50:40 novacom has no gui, right? Jun 16 19:50:45 no gui Jun 16 19:50:46 it just sits there in background Jun 16 19:50:55 Balr0g: you can check task manager and see if you are having the same issue I was. Just sort by CPU usage and see if novacomd is hitting 100% (or 50% if you have dual core) when the Pre is connected Jun 16 19:51:13 bsiegel, progress on my rewrite of novacomd is here: http://github.com/bpadalino/precomd/tree/master Jun 16 19:52:27 wow nice, did you deduce the protocol manually? Jun 16 19:52:54 yeah - used a program called USBTrace in a windows VM to get the captures .. Jun 16 19:53:23 then just looked at the captures ... there are a bunch of fields i am not sure about still Jun 16 19:53:27 but i am setting the structures up .. Jun 16 19:53:30 and the program flow .. Jun 16 19:55:03 haha Jun 16 19:55:09 god, damn, we're all fucking insane. Jun 16 19:55:18 =) Jun 16 19:55:30 sargun, why are we insane ? Jun 16 19:55:44 bsiegel, looks like it is the same issue Jun 16 19:55:49 bpadalino, because we spend our free time rewriting NovaCOMds Jun 16 19:55:50 centrino duo processor Jun 16 19:55:53 you're... re-writing novacomd? :-P Jun 16 19:56:47 sargun, well ... yeah .. but .. the linux nerds wanted something Jun 16 19:56:52 :) Jun 16 19:56:54 haha Jun 16 19:56:58 plus i've never done any usb programming before Jun 16 19:57:01 so this was a first Jun 16 19:57:02 now only if linux nerds were attractive women. Jun 16 19:57:08 some are Jun 16 19:57:15 Balr0g, False. Jun 16 19:57:27 Sargun: true - my exwife was one Jun 16 19:57:36 i was -rm during a kernel upgrade Jun 16 19:57:41 haha Jun 16 19:57:50 LOL Jun 16 19:58:43 wow Jun 16 19:58:44 ok Jun 16 19:58:45 nice Jun 16 19:58:46 i got it to work Jun 16 19:58:49 interesting Jun 16 19:58:50 how Jun 16 19:58:53 if you kill the tree Jun 16 19:58:56 Sargon: I have herd legends of that but have never seen one. Jun 16 19:58:59 kill the process tree Jun 16 19:59:06 then repair the msi install Jun 16 19:59:12 it forces you to reboot your machine Jun 16 19:59:24 when i came back up, i got the peer messages Jun 16 20:00:04 grue: google linixchiq - her r/n is richelle Jun 16 20:00:15 kill -9 -1 Jun 16 20:00:32 she's the second hit in her undies Jun 16 20:00:34 under images Jun 16 20:01:08 http://tracyreed.org/photo-album/funny/linuxchiq.jpg/image_view_fullscreen Jun 16 20:02:17 whoa Jun 16 20:02:29 * Sargun didn't realize that'd be so fuckin' bi. Jun 16 20:02:31 big Jun 16 20:02:33 * Sargun is at work Jun 16 20:02:38 nsfw ? Jun 16 20:02:39 o.O Jun 16 20:02:46 kinda Jun 16 20:02:48 if thats not good looking linux idk what is Jun 16 20:02:50 http://web-hosting.tophostingcenter.com/images/linux/linux_14.jpg Jun 16 20:03:17 http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://web-hosting.tophostingcenter.com/images/linux/linux_14.jpg&imgrefurl=http://web-hosting.tophostingcenter.com/%3Fp%3D58&usg=__AXKj4zZPVhv0M0mkbKNwnoDFcu4=&h=1200&w=1600&sz=56&hl=en&start=15&sig2=uOET5_wPnZjYlVM_iWB3Rg&um=1&tbnid=Ala4yVnxdX2XEM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlinux%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1&ei=M_o3SumoIpnqtA Jun 16 20:03:25 Dude, that picture was totally gimped. Jun 16 20:03:35 yeah I know Jun 16 20:03:39 they all are Jun 16 20:03:43 :) Jun 16 20:03:53 does running in dev mode kill battery faster? Jun 16 20:04:12 Not complaining though. Jun 16 20:04:45 I thought all that dev mode was change the firewall settings. Jun 16 20:05:19 Think I missed a "Did" in there. Jun 16 20:05:44 i donno.... Jun 16 20:08:04 I added some friendly error messaging in the novaproxy script, how would I go about contributing that back to the repository? Jun 16 20:08:35 i think asedeno is the one who wrote that ? Jun 16 20:09:22 do you have a github account? Jun 16 20:09:39 If so, I can add you as a contributor. If not, send me a patch, or open an account. Jun 16 20:13:36 asedeno_work_afk: I made an account, I'm bsiegel there too Jun 16 20:15:48 bsiegel: done Jun 16 20:18:35 id say create a github account and initiate a pull request Jun 16 20:18:41 <^neural^> palm cant force not to talk about tethering, isn't free speech an american value? Jun 16 20:19:01 neural, of course it is Jun 16 20:19:13 ^neural^; yeah, but figuring out tether is nearly stupid simple Jun 16 20:19:25 ^neural^; youll see it crop up elsewhere Jun 16 20:19:28 so who cares Jun 16 20:19:39 neural, but this channel is trying to maintain a nice relationship with palm at least .. so their hand is not forced to "retaliate" Jun 16 20:19:42 Yes, forking and sending pull requests also works just fine. Jun 16 20:19:54 <^neural^> yeah i guess so, but still i can't talk about this thing? give a break Jun 16 20:20:05 hey, no tether talk :) Jun 16 20:20:17 ^neural^; i recommend starting #webos-tethering and taking your conversation there Jun 16 20:20:23 it's called "this channel is moderated" Jun 16 20:20:24 yah, don't pooh in the waters :). I'd like to keep Palm happy with us folk Jun 16 20:20:46 rulethirty: this is freenode, i don't think they like that either ;) Jun 16 20:21:03 well true, but just be patient Jun 16 20:21:10 someone else WILL put the instructions Jun 16 20:21:15 its stupid easy Jun 16 20:21:20 shhh Jun 16 20:21:22 rulethirty: it's a rule we've set, so like it or don't like it Jun 16 20:21:29 i mean hell if you have DNS you could just use SSH to proxy Jun 16 20:21:30 I'm pretty sure there are already instructions somewhere. The point is, not here Jun 16 20:21:31 or we can ask you to leave politely ;) Jun 16 20:22:15 nebula: no i totally agree; im just directing ^neural^ as to why its not even worth talking about Jun 16 20:22:15 <^neural^> rulethirty: you are talking about tethering right now!! oh god Jun 16 20:22:23 <^neural^> :) Jun 16 20:22:29 rulethirty: wrong nick Jun 16 20:22:38 once your phone is linux Jun 16 20:22:50 the tethering pretty much becomes easy Jun 16 20:22:52 ok, please change the topic :) Jun 16 20:22:56 (rpovided you ahve root) Jun 16 20:22:58 rulethirty, dude...enough Jun 16 20:23:03 heh Jun 16 20:23:40 i really don't want to kick anyone, so let's just calm down, okieday? Jun 16 20:23:57 err... Jun 16 20:24:06 uh... Jun 16 20:24:09 <^neural^> so you get my point, is ridicule to moderate talks about that thing Jun 16 20:24:11 bah, its not like people should get sand in their vag when its brought up either Jun 16 20:24:33 i was just saying if you cant figure it out; maybe you shouldnt be attempting it Jun 16 20:24:42 next Jun 16 20:24:48 next song! Jun 16 20:24:50 rulethirty, we get your point... Jun 16 20:24:58 rulethirty, now, let's move on... please. Jun 16 20:25:08 seriously Jun 16 20:25:09 so... have any of you guys had trouble with cracked screens? Jun 16 20:25:10 So, who here has watched the news recently? Jun 16 20:25:15 tlp, nope. Jun 16 20:25:23 No, it's not ridiculous. This channel is building a very specific type of community, which wants to maintain good rapport with Palm and Carriers. Philosophical discussions do not apply. Jun 16 20:25:23 there is an enormous thread about it Jun 16 20:25:26 I've seen 1 pict of a cracked screen Jun 16 20:25:30 how about that local sports team? Jun 16 20:25:34 tlp, no cracked screen for me .. i've been using mine naked since i've bought it Jun 16 20:25:37 Sargun: watch... ? like, on tv? Jun 16 20:25:39 * Sargun too Jun 16 20:25:46 hmm. Hopefully it's just a small percentage of them. Jun 16 20:25:52 do the Sprint stores sell the screen covers? Jun 16 20:25:57 tlp, it seems to be a small but vocal group of people Jun 16 20:26:10 Cracked screens? Jun 16 20:26:16 Like, under normal use? Jun 16 20:26:17 hemna: I would guess so, they sell cases for other phones Jun 16 20:26:17 so is there an official screen protector Jun 16 20:26:27 i just lopped the tab off mine and it seems to be ok for now Jun 16 20:26:27 jblebrun: yeah, that's what they claim. Jun 16 20:26:35 from being in my pocket (by itself) i haven't seen any scratches on it Jun 16 20:26:35 but probably not going to be a longterm solution Jun 16 20:26:37 so i am not too worried Jun 16 20:26:41 That's what I'd claim too, if I stepped on my Pre. Jun 16 20:26:46 haha Jun 16 20:26:57 it picks up more fingerprints than scratches Jun 16 20:27:04 I need an excuse to go get the touchstone as well :P Jun 16 20:27:07 sprint sells a generic screen protector Jun 16 20:27:17 you have to chop it to the pre dimensions Jun 16 20:27:18 i think some people turn their phone into a fetish Jun 16 20:27:28 I use the little cozi that came with it Jun 16 20:27:39 hemna; heard that touchstone makes the phone really hot Jun 16 20:27:51 Zagg makes a really good screen protector, lifetime warrantied too Jun 16 20:27:51 it gets warm, but not untouchable .. Jun 16 20:27:56 hrmm Jun 16 20:28:05 it gets about as warm on a long phone call Jun 16 20:28:10 the phone is already hot. :) Jun 16 20:28:12 * datafirm thinks the cozy is verrry nice. Jun 16 20:28:14 kinda pain to mess w/ the usb cable all the time, since battery life isn't the best Jun 16 20:28:27 well palm made it a big nussience to get out the USB mini plug Jun 16 20:28:27 touchstone is pretty good Jun 16 20:28:35 it doesn't make it any hotter than long call Jun 16 20:28:35 so thats almost enough reason to get the touchstone Jun 16 20:28:36 heh Jun 16 20:28:40 i wish i had more than one Jun 16 20:28:50 Balr0g: buy another! ;) Jun 16 20:28:56 the big gripe i have with touchstone is that you have to have it plugged in to power Jun 16 20:29:02 it's like crack..you buy 1, you need another....1 for home, car, work Jun 16 20:29:05 (ordered, and backordered) Jun 16 20:29:05 I charge the phone on my bed, touchstone isn't gonna hold it all night Jun 16 20:29:15 datafirm: For an include, it's very nice! Jun 16 20:29:16 Balr0g: like you cannot plug in into the usb on a computer? Jun 16 20:29:20 no Jun 16 20:29:25 touchstone needs ac power Jun 16 20:29:28 or it don't work Jun 16 20:29:31 hahhaa Jun 16 20:29:34 which is lame btw Jun 16 20:29:36 Hem: My problem is it didn't come with a wallwart or cable... pain if you want to buy a second touchstone. Jun 16 20:29:37 how else are you going to charge....w/o power? Jun 16 20:29:38 the big gripe i have with touchstone is that you have to have it plugged in to power Jun 16 20:29:39 bigtime Jun 16 20:29:41 i love it Jun 16 20:29:53 rule: you could plug it into the pc Jun 16 20:29:57 not coming with a cable is FTL Jun 16 20:29:58 via mini-usb Jun 16 20:30:01 * Lurking_Grue want his touchstone to break the laws of thermodynamics. Jun 16 20:30:07 lubyou, ? Jun 16 20:30:11 ah, thatd be too low power? Jun 16 20:30:11 solar? :P Jun 16 20:30:20 handcrank? Jun 16 20:30:23 i don't think the touchstone works with mini-usb Jun 16 20:30:26 lol Jun 16 20:30:28 it doesn't Jun 16 20:30:29 mouse-wheel? Jun 16 20:30:31 that is what i was saying Jun 16 20:30:35 oh Jun 16 20:30:35 weaksauce Jun 16 20:30:40 it's only 2W ... Jun 16 20:30:45 i want a pedometer-powered touchstone Jun 16 20:30:46 this is what got rule all running off Jun 16 20:30:51 it should charge from the gestures you put into the phone Jun 16 20:30:52 heh Jun 16 20:31:07 it should charge when I stare it down Jun 16 20:31:19 Have any OS X users had luck installing the arm-none-linux-gnueabi tools from MacPorts? I'd like to know if the package is messed up, or my ports installation is shit. Jun 16 20:31:22 * hemna eyeballs his pre...CHARGE! Jun 16 20:31:23 intense Jun 16 20:31:38 err, shot. Jun 16 20:31:38 damn, i haven't used mirc in a LONG time Jun 16 20:31:42 jblebrun; whats that get ya? Jun 16 20:32:02 rulethirty: tools to cross-compile native code for the Pre. Jun 16 20:32:10 ah, gotcha Jun 16 20:32:49 so none of the apps released for the pre are native apps right? Jun 16 20:33:01 even the ones in the store? Jun 16 20:33:25 i think they could have easily thrown a bone to a game developer for at least a proof of concept Jun 16 20:33:41 rulethirty: Well, yes and no. Jun 16 20:33:42 jblebrun, did you run selfupdate first to make sure you're up to date ? Jun 16 20:33:57 jblebrun; explain Jun 16 20:33:58 bpadalino: Yeah :( Jun 16 20:34:01 ugh Jun 16 20:34:16 weak :( Jun 16 20:34:21 have any of you found a way to interface with the mic? Jun 16 20:34:33 rulethirty: For example, the PDF viewer is written using the JavaScript+HTML framework. But the actual PDF renderer is implemented in native code, and inserted as a browser plugin object. Jun 16 20:34:33 i need to records sounds for a project im working on. Jun 16 20:34:37 i have when i place a call :) Jun 16 20:34:40 are native apps even expected to be officially supported by anyone? Jun 16 20:34:48 datafirm: Someone reported using arecord with success Jun 16 20:35:01 jblebrun: great. thanks Jun 16 20:35:03 jblebrun; ah thats a good example true Jun 16 20:35:16 ie does the SDK allow you to build native apps or only js+HTML5? Jun 16 20:35:18 that is pretty surprising Jun 16 20:35:32 officially, palm is only supporting html/js/css Jun 16 20:35:38 weak! Jun 16 20:35:38 It's my understanding that the initial SDK release with going to be for developing HTML+JS apps. Jun 16 20:35:41 bpadalino|work, how do you know that? Jun 16 20:35:47 What about Java? Jun 16 20:36:00 So if we wanted something like emulators its gonna be a hack outside the sdk. Jun 16 20:36:04 probably on your own for a while Jun 16 20:36:10 sargun, because that's what they've said for quite some time .. "webOS apps are html/js/css" Jun 16 20:36:26 If someone would like some headers, maybe we could get somewhere ;-) Jun 16 20:36:27 isn't js java? Jun 16 20:36:35 nebula: :-| Jun 16 20:36:40 javascript Jun 16 20:36:41 not java Jun 16 20:36:44 bleh! Jun 16 20:36:53 coffee != coffe milk Jun 16 20:37:01 right Jun 16 20:37:03 s/coffe/coffee Jun 16 20:37:04 and java != java script Jun 16 20:37:05 <^neural^> someone knows how extensive is the support of the ARM Cortex arch? Is java accellerated by the hw? Jun 16 20:37:05 :-) Jun 16 20:37:14 ECMAScript :-) Jun 16 20:37:22 sargun, i think java won't be supported simply because it would require a reboot of the jvm to load the jar, wouldn't it ? Jun 16 20:37:39 jblebrun: nice.. arecord works. just need to interface with it through app Jun 16 20:37:42 bpadalino|work, they could have a custom class loader Jun 16 20:37:52 sargun, i suppose that could be Jun 16 20:38:18 datafirm: com.palm.audio? Jun 16 20:38:21 neural, it's a Cortex-A8 and i don't think it has hardware accelerated java bytecode hardware Jun 16 20:38:35 No, it doesn't do hardware accelerated Java. Jun 16 20:38:51 <^neural^> but it has some "general purpose" virtual bytecode accellerator or am i worng? Jun 16 20:38:54 It's the OMAP3430 right? Jun 16 20:39:28 jblebrun, yeah pretty sure it's a 3430 Jun 16 20:39:37 clocked at 500MHz Jun 16 20:40:00 <^neural^> i don't even know how it works but in the specs they cited an hw module to that thing Jun 16 20:40:15 neural, link to specs you read ? Jun 16 20:40:54 Has anybody added a progress bar on the music player? Jun 16 20:41:18 bpadalino: cortex-a8 does include jazelle Jun 16 20:41:45 roxfan, i am pretty sure the manual said it was a trivial implementation Jun 16 20:41:48 but using it requires licensing from both arm and sun... so not many companies do it Jun 16 20:41:50 hmm Jun 16 20:42:01 let me check Jun 16 20:42:18 roxfan, http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM_Cortex-A8.html Jun 16 20:42:26 "Runtime Compilation Target" Jun 16 20:42:30 "The Cortex-A8 processor provides a trivial implementation of the Jazelle Extension. This means that the processor does not accelerate the execution of any bytecodes, and all bytecodes are executed by software routines. " Jun 16 20:42:45 that's what i read jblebrun Jun 16 20:42:45 <^neural^> bpadalino: http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM_Cortex-A8.html Jun 16 20:42:48 pfft Jun 16 20:42:59 <^neural^> Jazelle RCT Java-acceleration technology to optimize Just In Time (JIT) and Dynamic Adaptive Compilation (DAC), and reduce memory footprint by up to three times Jun 16 20:43:25 neural, it's just software Jun 16 20:45:19 hm indeed jazelle is optional on v7-A Jun 16 20:45:51 <^neural^> ARM Jazelle DBX (Direct Bytecode eXecution) technology for direct bytecode execution of JavaTM delivers an unparalleled combination of Java performance and the world's leading 32-bit embedded RISC architecture - giving platform developers the freedom to run Java applications alongside established OS, middleware and application code on a single processor. Jun 16 20:46:01 i thought it's required Jun 16 20:46:04 I'm guessing all the cortex stuff is in the libomx stuff Jun 16 20:46:08 <^neural^> seem hw to me Jun 16 20:46:15 or libOMX that is I think Jun 16 20:46:30 ^neural^: yes, but the page says a8 has RCT, not DBX Jun 16 20:46:36 <^neural^> ah ok Jun 16 20:48:01 i guess maybe they use ThumbEE to speed up the interpreter... Jun 16 20:48:35 the jvm palm used definitely doesn't use jazelle Jun 16 20:49:23 shaya, yeah looks like the libOMX stuff is all the OMAP stuff Jun 16 20:49:35 which app can I study to show me how POST requests are made in Mojo? Jun 16 20:49:38 omx is OpenMX Jun 16 20:49:42 is it ? Jun 16 20:49:53 i'm pretty sure Jun 16 20:50:05 <^neural^> roxfan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazelle state the is required for arch conformance, strange Jun 16 20:50:42 openmx seems to be a modeling software ? Jun 16 20:51:25 I see Evernote is use "new Ajax Request".. which is from teh prototype library, correct? but this is not supposed to let you make requests outside your domain. Jun 16 20:51:58 datafirm: Did you grep POST in /usr/palm/applications? Jun 16 20:52:09 not yet.. Jun 16 20:52:19 Just found that example in evernote. Jun 16 20:52:31 i think libOMX is all about trying to be able to link the kernel to loading DSP code .. Jun 16 20:52:33 hmm maybe i'm confusing the acronym... there was OpenSomething that used neon to speed up multimedia stuff Jun 16 20:52:36 like the video decoder Jun 16 20:53:23 jblebrun: new WebService might be another way. Jun 16 20:53:37 datafirm: Try grep POST -r /usr/palm/applications a lt of stuff comes up.datafirm: com.palm.app.updates/app/models/app-catalog-service.js Jun 16 20:54:05 Hello? Jun 16 20:54:09 roxfan: OpenMX in google doesn't seem to have anything to do with waht those libraries are Jun 16 20:54:17 I have never used irc before Jun 16 20:54:32 roxfan: also the library names are libOMX.TI.AAC.decode.so Jun 16 20:54:32 maybe someone can answer a very quick question Jun 16 20:54:37 it definitely access to the omap stuff Jun 16 20:54:42 I am setting up SSH on my pre Jun 16 20:54:43 or optimized for the processor Jun 16 20:54:59 ah, here it is http://www.arm.com/products/multimedia/openmax/index.html Jun 16 20:55:07 and the instructions say to enter my username, but I dont recall picking a username when I set up the pre Jun 16 20:55:16 is there a way to pull it from somewhere? Jun 16 20:55:20 openmax Jun 16 20:55:20 ah Jun 16 20:55:25 http://www.arm.com/products/multimedia/openmax/DL_v1.0.2.txt Jun 16 20:55:47 so isn't that what we said? Jun 16 20:55:51 so my real question is what is the C64x+ being used for ? Jun 16 20:55:53 dsp stuff is in /lib/dsp btw Jun 16 20:56:34 if i decode an mp3, which processor does that run on ? Jun 16 20:56:40 maybe TI's implementation uses dsp in addition or instead of neon Jun 16 20:57:03 i am hoping they chose whichever one used less power Jun 16 20:57:06 i see names like OMX_VIDENC_Allocate_DSPResources in libomx Jun 16 20:57:10 does anyone know how to find the username on my pre? Jun 16 20:57:47 username ? Jun 16 20:58:07 whoami Jun 16 20:58:15 trying to ssh to it Jun 16 20:58:23 need username@ipaddress Jun 16 20:58:24 oh Jun 16 20:58:29 root@ Jun 16 20:58:34 dont recall setting a username Jun 16 20:58:39 oh Jun 16 20:58:42 you never did an adduser ? Jun 16 20:58:47 You need to do that if you're using dropbear. Jun 16 20:58:52 and typed a password ? Jun 16 20:58:59 no never did adduser Jun 16 20:59:18 lets all ssh in to your pre Jun 16 21:00:54 hmm Jun 16 21:00:57 it seems I was an idiot Jun 16 21:01:06 x86 binutils as elf work fine at deconstructing the arm elf stuff Jun 16 21:01:54 yeah, looks like omx libs mostly just call into dsp Jun 16 21:02:03 so is there anyone in other channel metioned in the banner Jun 16 21:02:15 shaya, at least the symbols - not the code .. right ? Jun 16 21:02:27 yes Jun 16 21:02:32 neato Jun 16 21:02:35 bpadalino: you can compile objdump to disassemble anything :) Jun 16 21:02:48 morning all Jun 16 21:02:54 roxfan, luckily they actually included an objdump in their distribution! Jun 16 21:02:57 morning rwhitby Jun 16 21:02:57 i have a big fatass executable Jun 16 21:02:59 anything new in last 10 hours? Jun 16 21:03:10 Question... should novaproxy be the default procedure in the wiki for rooting the Pre? It seems to be a bit easier and doesn't open any servers on the device itself. Jun 16 21:03:11 hmm Jun 16 21:03:14 bpadalino|work: do you wanna move to gitorious.org? Jun 16 21:03:19 (your choice) Jun 16 21:03:23 but part of me is still thinking it gets graphic contexts via dbus Jun 16 21:03:28 autotools likes to make me cry. Jun 16 21:03:28 I wanted a bit of help over there Jun 16 21:03:36 rwhitby, not sure - what does gitorious offer over github ? Jun 16 21:03:40 as webkitluna has this class PGIpcSurface Jun 16 21:03:48 i know some other projects that use github, so i think i'll use that for now .. Jun 16 21:03:50 but thanks for offering Jun 16 21:03:51 bpadalino: nice project/team structure. Jun 16 21:03:52 with a bunch of functions that seem to indicate that Jun 16 21:03:55 ah Jun 16 21:03:56 it be like get surface via ipc Jun 16 21:03:57 hrmm .. Jun 16 21:03:59 but have no idea Jun 16 21:04:01 maybe i'll sign up for there too Jun 16 21:04:05 could be stupid miserinterpration Jun 16 21:04:06 well yes, the graphics IO is connected to arm side Jun 16 21:04:15 rwhitby: Did anyone take on the stockapps patch management? Jun 16 21:04:20 bpadalino: ability to easily share commit on things, like we share management of this channel and the wiki. Jun 16 21:04:26 but decoding/encodinf is done by dsp Jun 16 21:04:28 roxfan, figure out if they're using the video accelerator Jun 16 21:04:37 bsiegel, I get teminal character echo issues w/ novaproxy Jun 16 21:04:37 jblebrun: not yet, but that's one target for gitorious.org Jun 16 21:04:41 rwhitby, signing up right now Jun 16 21:04:44 part of me wishes this was opensource like android Jun 16 21:04:46 does it have one? Jun 16 21:04:48 hemna: are you using putty? Jun 16 21:04:51 every char I type, I see it twice Jun 16 21:04:54 nah Jun 16 21:04:58 telnet from cmd Jun 16 21:05:04 oh, yes that is why Jun 16 21:05:07 # I recommend using PuTTY in raw mode with Jun 16 21:05:07 # "Terminal> Line discipline options" all set to "Force off" Jun 16 21:05:16 duh Jun 16 21:05:16 ok Jun 16 21:05:18 don Jun 16 21:05:20 with this set, it works great Jun 16 21:05:21 err don't mind me Jun 16 21:05:33 I hope to fix that soon, but for now that's how it should be used. Jun 16 21:05:55 rwhitby, signed up to gitorious .. Jun 16 21:07:19 rwhitby: I'd like a good place to put a few scripts as well - from: http://predev.wikidot.com/podcatcher ya mind setting me up? Jun 16 21:07:24 i suppose i can push my changes to both remotes, right ? Jun 16 21:07:27 and keep both locations up to date ? Jun 16 21:08:27 i see - this can have multiple repositories associated witht he same project Jun 16 21:08:29 very nice Jun 16 21:09:21 drnull: let me know your gitorious account name Jun 16 21:09:34 As it is, the rooting instructions for novaproxy should be updated from "step 5" to "step 7" Jun 16 21:09:42 rwhitby, i am bpadalino Jun 16 21:10:04 drnull there as well, thanks. Jun 16 21:10:31 bpadalino: done Jun 16 21:10:34 made /. today looks like Jun 16 21:11:07 neat, thanks Jun 16 21:11:24 hemna: yeah, surprisingly not-too-inaccurate and not-too-inflammatory for slashdot ... Jun 16 21:11:43 kinda bored with the whole story by now though Jun 16 21:11:52 thanks rwhitby, I'll get stuff up there later Jun 16 21:11:59 slashdot: fark, for geeks Jun 16 21:12:11 bpadalino, drnull: let's make the repository names lower case with hypens to separate words please Jun 16 21:12:24 hyphens even Jun 16 21:12:58 FWIW. I'm asedeno on gitorious too. Jun 16 21:13:46 and allow the dev group as committers to most repositories under webos-internals (unless there is a very good reason) Jun 16 21:14:26 we're all a bunch of gits it seems Jun 16 21:14:30 I love all the comments about people screaming that they have the "right" to tether. Jun 16 21:15:01 bsiegel: yes, novaproxy should be the default method IMHO Jun 16 21:15:13 Afternoon, everyone. Jun 16 21:15:24 hi xandrake__ Jun 16 21:15:30 Anything big today -- other than the "t-word"? Jun 16 21:15:34 Hi xandrake__ Jun 16 21:20:08 guess not.... Jun 16 21:21:07 stefan_schmidt: welcome Jun 16 21:21:30 stefan_schmidt: /proc/config.gz exists on the Pre Jun 16 21:21:31 rwhitby: heh, why I'm not wondering to find you here. Hi. :) Jun 16 21:21:38 do we have to update the phone when a new app is moved into /var/usr/palm/applications? Jun 16 21:21:42 rwhitby: great, can I have a dump? Jun 16 21:21:58 * stefan_schmidt would like to have a look around Jun 16 21:22:24 rwhitby: Anyone already used a selfcompile kernel on it? I would guess no as the source is still not there. Jun 16 21:22:51 look at that: http://kb.palm.com/wps/portal/kb/na/pre/p100eww/sprint/solutions/article/19181_en.html Jun 16 21:22:57 there is a 10 minute countdown Jun 16 21:24:09 stefan: I don't know but I'd imagine that as long as you use the same kernel version and keep the binary modules you may be able to selfcompile. (assuming everything the pre needs that is custom is a module) Jun 16 21:24:17 rwhitby: btw, you have one? I thought .au has no CDMA? Jun 16 21:24:56 stefan_schmidt: don't have one yet. waiting for unlocked GSM Jun 16 21:24:59 palm really needs to meet the GPL and provide source Jun 16 21:25:04 Destinal: Sure, I'm just wondering how flashing would work. Any bootloader I could give my kernel to load it into ram and execute it? Jun 16 21:25:05 stefan_schmidt: so I can't give you a config.gz :-( Jun 16 21:25:15 Or maybe kexec. That's what the config could tell me? Jun 16 21:25:21 we've heard that source for the kernel is 2 weeks away Jun 16 21:25:24 rwhitby: ah, ok Jun 16 21:25:34 rwhitby: yeah, got the same mail :) Jun 16 21:25:41 stefan_schmidt: just give someone here a grep to run Jun 16 21:25:42 that was less than two weeks, but more than a week ago for me. Jun 16 21:25:42 there should be a config in the webos jar Jun 16 21:25:48 Destinal: yeah, Harald is a bit pissed. :) Jun 16 21:26:19 saw that. he makes some good points, re: how a binary can be possible without source. :) Jun 16 21:26:23 zcaz /proc/config.gz | grep KEXEC would help me for a first peek :) Jun 16 21:26:46 stefan_schmidt: the rule in this channel is, instructions and source first, then youtube later ;-) Jun 16 21:26:53 But I really would like to have the full config. Nothing private or confidential in there :) Jun 16 21:27:03 Hello all. I'm trying to install fceu, and I'm following the instructions at http://predev.wikidot.com/nintendo but when I try to setup my 'gamepad' I get "Could not initialize SDL: Unable to open mouse." anyone else see this before? Jun 16 21:27:03 rwhitby: heh Jun 16 21:27:25 * Destinal does a doubletake. Jun 16 21:27:53 wow didn't realize that a FB-based NES emu for pre was out there already Jun 16 21:28:08 Gadfly1: what does your /etc/directfbrc look like Jun 16 21:29:03 Gadfly1, you don't have your SDL_DRIVER="directfb" Jun 16 21:29:05 nebula: http://pastebin.ca/1462628 Jun 16 21:29:19 export SDL_VIDEODRIVER='directfb' Jun 16 21:29:28 this channel needs a pastebot :P Jun 16 21:29:38 what's a pastebot ? Jun 16 21:29:46 Gadfly1: run that export command Jun 16 21:29:56 sweet Jun 16 21:30:00 new error ;-) Jun 16 21:30:14 it's a handy thing that automatically posts an announcement in the channel when someone makes a pastebin post Jun 16 21:30:24 doesn't like the autoflip-window command Jun 16 21:30:39 is there a way i can see ALL the webos pastebins that have been made ? Jun 16 21:30:43 so and so made a new pastbin entry to read it click http://pastebin.foo/url Jun 16 21:31:33 i pasted a bunch of things there with "forever" hoping i could search for pastes by me .. but i can't seem to find that option Jun 16 21:31:40 Can someone make a pastebin of all the pastebins to date? :-) Jun 16 21:32:30 It should be fairly straightforward to write a script that periodically scans the logs and updates the wiki page Jun 16 21:32:38 nebula: /etc/directfbrc should be in the debian chroot? or not? Jun 16 21:32:52 yeah Jun 16 21:33:00 yeah, in? Jun 16 21:33:19 ls Jun 16 21:33:24 oops sorry Jun 16 21:34:59 do you think you can take a look at this thread http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/185206-possible-tether-work-around-4.html Jun 16 21:35:15 comments would be great Jun 16 21:36:04 rwhitby usually smacks down tethering talk Jun 16 21:36:18 joesmith: comments in this channel would not be great - see the /topic Jun 16 21:36:31 read the topic homebre Jun 16 21:36:54 chrisa: not just me - it seems the culture of the channel is being well represented by lots of devs here Jun 16 21:37:34 Because we don't want the fun to end. Jun 16 21:37:42 Are you trying to ruin my judge dred esc image I'm portraying you with? Jun 16 21:38:17 chrisa: heh, no, just sharing the blame :-) Jun 16 21:38:24 heh Jun 16 21:38:25 sharing the blame Jun 16 21:38:29 * summatusmentis raises his hand Jun 16 21:38:31 you can blame me Jun 16 21:38:40 or, at least partially :) Jun 16 21:38:58 joesmith: it seems you already knew about the other channel, so had read the topic, but intentionally posted a link to tethering instructions anyway. that's your last warning. Jun 16 21:39:01 the only way the fun will end if palm has to do more work to lockdown the phone Jun 16 21:39:12 but it may be too late for that Jun 16 21:39:23 as the phone already can install unsigned firmware Jun 16 21:39:28 stefan_schmidt: in http://blog.steventroughtonsmith.com/2009/06/wwdcpalm-pre-rollercoaster-week.html someone claims to have reflashed modified firmware to the pre. is this a find or something all the cool kids are doing these days? Jun 16 21:39:29 shaya, it's never too late Jun 16 21:39:38 bpadalino|work: what can they do? Jun 16 21:39:44 lock the phone down? Jun 16 21:39:47 I'm more inclined to agree with shaya on this one, but I don't want to test it. Jun 16 21:39:53 force update the bootloader to only accept signed firmware? Jun 16 21:39:53 it's already opened, so we can recreate the firmware as they update Jun 16 21:39:59 shaya: an OTA update can reflash the bootloader Jun 16 21:40:03 right, but as we can install the firmwar,e we can ignore it Jun 16 21:40:25 it would affect newer devices Jun 16 21:40:28 Destinal: It's a nice find. Especially if you are looking for linux phones without signature check so you can flash your own kernel. :) Jun 16 21:40:37 you assume Doctor continues working after OTA :) Jun 16 21:40:50 Palm is sophisticated enough to be able to close all access points we've found so far. Jun 16 21:40:55 stefan_schmidt: openmoko? :) Jun 16 21:41:02 but even signed firmware has gotten arond on the windows mobile platform Jun 16 21:41:05 Even if it's not squelched permanently, it's a huge setback, and results in more time spent doing un-interesting things trying to get back to where things were. Jun 16 21:41:09 Destinal: worked there for two years, yes Jun 16 21:41:11 the chip has enough security features that if they rally wanted to lock us out - they could Jun 16 21:41:24 the best way for palm to make it worthwhile is to be more forthcoming Jun 16 21:41:29 The fact that Palm did not close those access points before shipping tells me that they'd prefer not to close them, and may only do so if forced (my opinion only) Jun 16 21:41:32 i.e. their has to be a carrot Jun 16 21:41:40 rwhitby, i agree Jun 16 21:41:40 Hence we don't want to force them to do it. Jun 16 21:41:44 "there" Jun 16 21:41:44 rwhitby: I agree Jun 16 21:41:46 stefan_schmidt: it looks like without intending to palm may have provided a great OM platform Jun 16 21:42:07 but I think palm should be more carrot'ing to the community to encourage their cooperation Jun 16 21:42:19 wut Jun 16 21:42:24 Destinal, it's almost a backhanded way of "opening" the platform without being open source and maintaining your own IP in your own binaries Jun 16 21:42:29 shaya: I'm sure they are trying with what limited resources they probably have on it. Jun 16 21:42:34 Palm needs the dev community to compete with the iTurd. It's in their best interested to leave the phone open. But they can't piss off their only network provider either Jun 16 21:42:42 stefan_schmidt: the main thing that bothered me about the Neo was lack of high speed data (HSDPA / EVDO) Jun 16 21:42:54 stefan_schmidt, the openmoko stefan_schmidt? Jun 16 21:42:56 Destinal: Looks promising indeed. Worked on freesmartphone.org the last year. Openmoko middleware. And we are lookign forward to a GSM version of the pre :) Jun 16 21:43:00 Given the app-building success with no SDK, when the SDK *is* released, there's going to be an appsplosion. Jun 16 21:43:01 i wouldn't call it an iturd - it's a great phone .. and i doubt the pre would be the phone it is today without the iphone in all honesty Jun 16 21:43:02 the question is, would it really piss of sprint, if it kept hte Pre sold out? :) Jun 16 21:43:03 Sargun: that one, yes Jun 16 21:43:19 stefan_schmidt, have you looked at the dbus stuff on the pre? Jun 16 21:43:22 I love the iPhone... it's all the insecure users I have issue with ;-) Jun 16 21:43:26 all these people are tethering with windows mobile with a simple registry change Jun 16 21:43:30 Sargun: I don't have one. Jun 16 21:43:35 Sargun: .de here... Jun 16 21:43:47 shaya: carrier revenue is from monthly fees, not initial purchase. As long as we don't affect that monthly revenue, Sprint should be happy. Jun 16 21:43:57 shaya: if they were sold with contracts and whatever network related options that they sanction, yes they would Jun 16 21:44:07 stefan_schmidt, no one said you couldn't pay the $800 for import. Jun 16 21:44:19 Sargun: but it wouldn't work there as a phone Jun 16 21:44:21 the GSM pre is apparently intended for non-US :( but I can tolerate sprint-only for a while Jun 16 21:44:31 if it was GSM, I'd slap down $800 in a minute. Jun 16 21:44:33 the if-up and if-down scripts are interesting for pmnetconfig .. i wonder if those are what those EVDO IP guys want for changing the IP ? Jun 16 21:44:38 Destinal: well, there have been other things, too. Still not such a bad device after all if you like to develop for a linux smartphone. Jun 16 21:44:39 rwhitby: that's what I said, if they couldn't keep up with demand on the Pre's do to behavior they would otherwise not like, they'd be getting higher monthly fees Jun 16 21:44:45 rwhitby, I never said anything about _using_ it Jun 16 21:44:46 i.e. more customers Jun 16 21:45:02 Sargun: And won't be able to use it as .de is no CDMA land? Jun 16 21:45:05 shaya: as long as those customers cannot circumvent paying the monthly fees ... Jun 16 21:45:16 only way would be to go to verizon Jun 16 21:45:17 stefan_schmidt, look above. Jun 16 21:45:22 which they can do now if verizon would activate it for them Jun 16 21:45:24 Sargun: heh Jun 16 21:45:27 I said looking, never using Jun 16 21:45:36 Sargun: Maybe we will do this. Jun 16 21:45:36 stefan_schmidt, they basically wrote their own FSO Jun 16 21:45:46 * Destinal bought an Android Dev Phone 1 and was surprised by how non-linux it is despite the linux kernel Jun 16 21:45:47 But I need to see the real potential before Jun 16 21:45:59 destinal, how bad is it ? Jun 16 21:46:02 stefan_schmidt, how so? Jun 16 21:46:06 you mean the phone server is javascript? Jun 16 21:46:13 Destinal: yup, it's android/linux not gnu/linux :) Jun 16 21:46:31 Sargun: just import one to hack on it while waiting for the GSM version Jun 16 21:46:31 I personally think keeping the phone locked down isn't in Sprint or Palms' best interest. the really exciting things occur when a device can be used in ways you dont expect Jun 16 21:46:50 and those really exciting things are what make people desire your product Jun 16 21:46:57 Sargun: (FSO) well, nothing new. There are a lot such platforms out there. Jun 16 21:47:03 bpadalino: Android is basically a custom JVM + environment and most of the supporting framework is nonstandard / custom Jun 16 21:47:03 such as what happened with the iphone when people realized it could be jailbroken Jun 16 21:47:11 shaya: I expect that the motivations will be different during the exclusivity period compared to the long term. Jun 16 21:47:14 apparently unlike the pre which looks very standard distro-ish Jun 16 21:47:20 wharrgarbl Jun 16 21:47:20 well, OE based, right? Jun 16 21:47:25 anyways Jun 16 21:47:30 Destinal: That is what I heard. Jun 16 21:47:34 Destinal: yes Jun 16 21:47:37 destinal, ah interesting Jun 16 21:47:37 * stefan_schmidt puts his OE hat on. Jun 16 21:47:42 * rwhitby too Jun 16 21:47:47 I don't have much of a horse in this race right now, as wont get an everything plan :) Jun 16 21:47:51 Hopefully we will see the source for the buildsystem, too. Jun 16 21:48:08 i think it's time to go home .. i'm going to try to setup a cross compile environment on my mbp tonight and see if i can get much further with the novacomd rewrite Jun 16 21:48:09 bbl Jun 16 21:48:12 stefan_schmidt: I've been told they have some good bitbake patches, and have put RP in touch with them. Jun 16 21:48:17 i would think they need to keep it open, as i'm sure the developers would like some sort of debugger on the real device Jun 16 21:48:21 hopefully when palm realizes they can get free help they'll open it more Jun 16 21:48:21 But they don't have to. MIT license. Would be a nice move anyway. (Big fat hint) Jun 16 21:48:43 What is the benefit of cross compiling? I don't get its purpose. Jun 16 21:48:47 rwhitby: great, even bitbake itself not only working on recipes. Nice. Jun 16 21:49:12 Smashcubed: Big fat machine doing the work instead small handheld? Jun 16 21:49:13 Smashcubed: code in a personalized dev environment on your computer and deploy it on the platform intended Jun 16 21:49:14 Smashcubed: quad core x86 cna compile arm code faster than arm can Jun 16 21:49:22 that too Jun 16 21:49:33 shaya: Dual quad cores these days. Jun 16 21:49:36 bpadalino|work: why do you need to cross compile for that? Jun 16 21:49:45 * stefan_schmidt loves the dual quad core with 10GB ram :) Jun 16 21:49:53 I think it's naieve to think that Palm doesn't know exactly what it's doing, and the scheduling for information release and determinations on openness are not caused by purely business or agreement driven reasons, which usually swamp any technical or community reasons in a company. Jun 16 21:50:00 I have single with 8, and dont need the 8 :) Jun 16 21:50:34 rwhitby: to some extend. but look at android. google took the opposite approach Jun 16 21:50:58 shaya: google had the same NDA and lack of SDK issues in it's first few months Jun 16 21:51:11 i'm waiting for multi terabyte solid state drives with blindingly fast write/read without selling my left testicle for it Jun 16 21:51:15 anyways Jun 16 21:51:30 I have to go Jun 16 21:51:32 it was fun Jun 16 21:51:34 rwhitby: SDK's were out for android many months before the G1 shipped Jun 16 21:51:47 sdk was out for 0.8 Jun 16 21:51:57 it shipped with 1.0 and 1.0 sdk Jun 16 21:52:25 Destinal, tmzt: true. Jun 16 21:52:32 the interesting thing was kernel source was public a year earlier Jun 16 21:52:36 but the sequence of events is still the same, just the timing differs. Jun 16 21:52:58 tmzt: yes, google did the right thing with the GPL code. Jun 16 21:53:02 *nods* Jun 16 21:53:27 sargun: Someone emailed me (??) suggesting having the tracking app email back Google Maps links Jun 16 21:53:29 there was an interim sdk that was closed for some reason, but I know none of the details of that Jun 16 21:53:51 tmzt: it was only accessible to winners of some contest, iirc Jun 16 21:54:00 tmzt: one assumes that was so no independent developer could release an app that was better than the competition winners. Jun 16 21:54:12 marketing driven Jun 16 21:54:16 tmzt: the GPL source was open but the non GPL source (userland, davlik JVM, etc) was not, for a while Jun 16 21:54:50 I don't think they had a choice on kernel, depending on how you interpret distribute, once they gave it to their partners they had to make source available somwhow, they chose a public git which was really nice Jun 16 21:54:53 right Jun 16 21:54:54 yes Jun 16 21:55:00 Google complied meticulously (sp?) with the legal requirements of the code they used. And dragged their feet on anything they didn't need to release. Jun 16 21:55:38 well, in fairness they did release all that other source when the G1 came out, though they didn't have to Jun 16 21:55:39 but they said userland code would be release with the g1, and actually released two days before I think Jun 16 21:55:57 that is true - they did beat the public release Jun 16 21:56:12 I agree though, they definitely weren't developing in the open. Jun 16 21:56:21 stark contrast to Opemoko etc Jun 16 21:56:23 I'm too used to Openmoko :-) Jun 16 21:56:47 release early, release often Jun 16 21:56:55 * stefan_schmidt mubles that devloping in the open is often also difficult Jun 16 21:56:56 I stopped paying attentio to OpenMoko ~2 years ago Jun 16 21:57:03 but well, it is worth it :) Jun 16 21:57:26 watched with mild interest until it was announced they weren't creating new products Jun 16 21:57:27 summatusmentis: Because you did your gsoc somewhere else? Jun 16 21:57:31 stefan_schmidt: yes Jun 16 21:57:38 and school, and whatever Jun 16 21:57:39 yeah, developing in the open could easily have killed palm with the cash reserves they had Jun 16 21:57:40 summatusmentis: how was it going btw? Jun 16 21:57:51 stefan_schmidt: I'm on my second summer with them :) Jun 16 21:57:57 so I'd say well Jun 16 21:57:58 rwhitby: Wasn't it 300 millions? Jun 16 21:58:03 stefan_schmidt: if anyone is interested in trying fso on the cdma Pre I would be willing to help as much as I can, particularly once I get my cdma patches fixed for mickeyl Jun 16 21:58:09 summatusmentis: great, that's nice Jun 16 21:58:27 tmzt: great, you have one around already? Jun 16 21:58:36 stefan_schmidt: it is, I wasn't sure how I felt about it at the time, but it's turned out well Jun 16 21:58:38 no Jun 16 21:58:41 tmzt: Will poke mickey tomorrow in our confcall Jun 16 21:58:50 fso? Jun 16 21:58:51 summatusmentis: nice Jun 16 21:59:00 don't have pre Jun 16 21:59:02 freesmartphone.org Jun 16 21:59:18 tmzt: will poke him anyway :) Jun 16 21:59:37 ~botsnack Jun 16 21:59:56 hmm Jun 16 21:59:57 no bots yet Jun 16 22:00:01 ah, ok Jun 16 22:00:09 could do with a s// bot Jun 16 22:00:18 nah, it's fine Jun 16 22:00:27 * stefan_schmidt just wanted to check for ~fso Jun 16 22:00:35 looks like there may be a bright future for this platform.. :) Jun 16 22:01:00 for the handset at very least Jun 16 22:01:02 Destinal, man I hope so Jun 16 22:01:10 Destinal: It depends a bit on palm moves. But yes, atm it looks bright. Jun 16 22:01:11 this is one of the coolest devices ever Jun 16 22:01:30 the iphone interface is neat and all, but it's Apple and completely closed..minded Jun 16 22:01:57 *nod* Jun 16 22:01:59 i hate the iphone because the pre is competing with it Jun 16 22:02:07 * ShinAli shakes fist Jun 16 22:02:08 attacking and denying your own devs is idiotic Jun 16 22:02:22 but that's apple for you Jun 16 22:02:27 * Hamzifer hides his iphone Jun 16 22:02:35 If palm starts to play out the linux cards well they can build a nice community around Jun 16 22:03:04 stefan_schmidt: what do you mean play out the linux cards? Jun 16 22:03:12 Well, no hate, the iphone is great. I just don't like the politics of apple Jun 16 22:03:13 more than just the obligatory code drop? Jun 16 22:03:28 there's plenty of room in the market for at least 5 good smartphone devices ... Jun 16 22:03:50 how it is at the moment it cant stay - the shop would be useless Jun 16 22:03:53 summatusmentis: no, repositories in the open for the open code. Accept patches, bring updates, make the process transparent... Jun 16 22:03:59 everyone can copy everything Jun 16 22:04:05 rwhitby: even more Jun 16 22:04:22 rwhitby: And that leaves billions of people for feature phones as well Jun 16 22:04:29 stefan_schmidt: I assume the obligatory code drop will have repos, whether or not they're public remains to be seen :) Jun 16 22:04:30 yep Jun 16 22:04:33 rwhitby: i'd agree with that, but in similar ways to how there's room for multiple IM protocols Jun 16 22:04:41 stefan_schmidt you see how fast they reackt now - no patch -no sdk Jun 16 22:04:42 summatusmentis: yup, future will tell Jun 16 22:04:48 hope that will change Jun 16 22:04:56 I think this is all a new thing for palm Jun 16 22:04:57 rwhitby: in the long run it'd be a case of smartphones that will interoperate easily clustering within demographics Jun 16 22:04:58 wtb sdk Jun 16 22:05:01 I'm willing to give them a chance Jun 16 22:05:02 rwhitby: (imo) Jun 16 22:05:12 using IM protocols as a good example there Jun 16 22:05:16 hertzi: well, give them some time. What makes me a bit upset is the GPL code thought. Jun 16 22:05:37 It's shipped, the code must be available. And they are not sending out CD's yet. Which would be ok. Jun 16 22:05:41 The GPL does not set a timeframe for the release of source. Jun 16 22:05:53 stefan_schmidt don't know if I follow.. Jun 16 22:05:53 drnull: thx for the wiki fix - it's hard when I don't have a device to test on :-( Jun 16 22:06:01 they still didn't drop the GPL code? Jun 16 22:06:02 They said two weeks a little over a week ago. Jun 16 22:06:03 dang Jun 16 22:06:09 asedeno_work_afk: You have to make it available when you distribute it. And that is now. Jun 16 22:06:11 stefan_schmidt got it Jun 16 22:06:20 have you read the GPL? Jun 16 22:06:24 CD's would be fine Jun 16 22:06:37 asedeno_work_afk: yeah, I did Jun 16 22:06:52 I realease code under it and I read the license then :) Jun 16 22:06:56 guys, it takes *months* for a company to prepare a GPL release. Yes, Palm should have done it earlier, but don't be suprised that it takes weeks to do. Just the legal work would take 2 weeks at least. Jun 16 22:06:57 I would really like to see the kernel :) Jun 16 22:07:22 tmzt: me too :) Jun 16 22:07:31 rwhitby: sure, seen it at motorola. It's just that they know about this before. :) Jun 16 22:07:33 I'm really really hoping it's not crippled Jun 16 22:07:39 stefan_schmidt: absolutely Jun 16 22:07:43 @tmzt isn't most of it standard and the config you can read :) Jun 16 22:07:57 Of course I would really like to see a few things on the device as well, lsusb -v -v of the usb host, alsa state, etc. Jun 16 22:08:10 talking about the kernel, which is GPLv2, I'm sure they're following section 3, b. Jun 16 22:08:25 stefan_schmidt: no excuse for the delay, but people shouldn't be surprised about how long things take in big companies ... Jun 16 22:08:35 hertzi: most, but there where some odd things in the .config that point to cutom code Jun 16 22:08:42 rwhitby: but why would they have to do anything to prep for a release? if there's any oversight to be done that implies that changes may need to be made prior to release of the code, which would mean that the code wouldn't be *corresponding* to the released binaries Jun 16 22:08:43 rwhitby: No surprise here :) Jun 16 22:08:45 other wise should be close to beagle Jun 16 22:09:06 they do have a written offer in PDF on the device, and the GPL only says within a reasonable timeframe to send out the CD. Jun 16 22:09:24 from the days of tape Jun 16 22:09:33 what is reasonable today? Jun 16 22:09:34 Destinal: ever dealt with a legal department in a big company? Jun 16 22:09:42 The GPL says nothing about timeframe Jun 16 22:09:50 ok Jun 16 22:09:58 tmzt: don't get me wrong, they should have released the code before the device. Jun 16 22:10:04 only offer right? Jun 16 22:10:15 rwhitby: yeah, I know, but you understand about the implications of legal review, also, how it means they may never release the actual code to the binaries for this version, only for the next? Jun 16 22:10:27 rwhitby: yes, but I'm not questioning them, just anticipating it Jun 16 22:10:39 * Destinal works for a US Fortune 300 company, knows about the hideous legal monstrosity. Jun 16 22:10:50 Destinal: agreed Jun 16 22:11:32 * rwhitby is definitely not trying to defend Palm for not releasing code before/as the device shipped. Jun 16 22:11:36 what I wonder about is gplv3, whether it's enough to provide internet access or whether internet access is required Jun 16 22:12:23 well, it's gplv2 we're looking at for just about everything on the device, yes? Jun 16 22:12:48 maybe, I think so Jun 16 22:12:56 certainly for the linux kernel Jun 16 22:13:11 although gnu stuff is gplv3 mostly now I thought Jun 16 22:13:15 yes kernel Jun 16 22:13:32 good point re: userland, probably right Jun 16 22:13:36 If you look at this from the company shareholder point of view, would a company shareholder prefer Palm delay the phone release to work on the GPL release, or deal with the GPL release only after they've seen whether the phone is going to sell any devices or not ... not condoning that behaviour, but that's the reality of decision making in big companies. Jun 16 22:13:39 gpios should be in /proc/interrupts Jun 16 22:14:17 They certainly didn't need to release the code before releasing the product. They have no obligation to do so. Jun 16 22:14:39 rwhitby: I see the annoucnement last year which implied or stated release would be in a year, and of course everyone expected a new iPhone on the same timeline Jun 16 22:14:46 saw Jun 16 22:14:55 once again, google should be a great example for this, I'm sure they were ramping up for the source code release for months beforehand Jun 16 22:15:24 Destinal: yes, Google and Palm are two companies in slightly different cash-flow situations .... Jun 16 22:16:03 point taken. at any rate, I think if it comes out within a week or so, people will generally be happy Jun 16 22:16:21 I'm personally happy to wait a couple of weeks for Palm to release stuff, if the reason for the delay was simply lack of manpower getting the phone out the door to save the company. Jun 16 22:16:23 man the vibrate alerts for emails is so pathetic, i dont even notice it on my office desk going off righ t next to me :( Jun 16 22:16:53 The did the open source PDF offer, if they follow it up within a reasonable timeframe then I'm happy. Jun 16 22:17:32 the fact they had the PDF on device (which means it must have gone through QA and release procedures) means they didn't forget about it. Jun 16 22:18:33 but of course having a public repo announced on the same day as the hardware would have been puurrrfect :-) Jun 16 22:18:42 I don't see them releasing a modified putty, can't see why that was on the list Jun 16 22:18:53 the words "reasonable" and "timeframe" do not appear in gpl2 Jun 16 22:19:14 3b does not mention timing at all Jun 16 22:19:46 except that the offer must be valid for at least 3 years Jun 16 22:19:47 yeah, and I have to hope that a non-crypto-locked bootloader implies that palm doesn't intend to try the same tactics apple has used to control every aspect of the iphone they can Jun 16 22:20:17 we've already bee told two weeks through multiple channels though, not that that's a committment exactly Jun 16 22:20:37 i think palm's more interested in sales than rigid control of what they're selling (atleast right now) Jun 16 22:20:53 Destinal: we don't know much about the bootloader though Jun 16 22:21:12 tmzt: some unconfirmed reports of people reflashing with modified firmware Jun 16 22:21:51 reflashing or just changing partition2? Jun 16 22:22:21 JackieRipper: And what do you read from this? Delay as logn as you want? Surely not. Jun 16 22:22:26 I mean are they changing partition1 at all? the one we are told has danger Jun 16 22:22:44 no, I read it as it's due upon release Jun 16 22:22:54 JackieRipper: Delaying is pretty bad practice and often ends with a letter from ahralds or the fsf task force lawyers. Jun 16 22:22:56 it's quite difficult to find v2 on the fsf site any more ... Jun 16 22:23:13 tmzt: reflashing apparently Jun 16 22:23:14 http://blog.steventroughtonsmith.com/2009/06/wwdcpalm-pre-rollercoaster-week.html Jun 16 22:23:15 JackieRipper: exact. Add the time that a CD may need to get shipped. Jun 16 22:23:33 Two weeks are not really bad. Let's hope they will hold it. Jun 16 22:23:48 stefan_schmidt: agreed, I read it as, if you distribute the code, you must, at that time, be prepared to give the source to anyone who asks for it Jun 16 22:24:49 JackieRipper: yes, prepared. It may take a bit longer to ship. Still in the new day of internet, etc that gets a bit abused sometimes. But they also would have the right to only ship cd's on request. Jun 16 22:24:55 Fine with the license. Jun 16 22:25:30 * stefan_schmidt remebers the first kernel code he got from motorola on cd after months and long before opensource.motorola.com launched. Jun 16 22:25:53 stefan_schmidt: yes, but I'm sure one of us would kindly mirror. :) Jun 16 22:26:12 Anyway, it's no violations per se, just bad practice atm. And now back to coding guys. :) Jun 16 22:26:31 Finally, a balanced insightful article on what we're doing: http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=E9999EFF-1A64-6A71-CE5686EEDA2F7EEE Jun 16 22:26:45 Destinal: Just drop it into ftp.gpl-devices.org/ :) Jun 16 22:27:03 Destinal: Harald is mirroring all the stuff there. Jun 16 22:27:15 Make sure things do not vanish. Jun 16 22:27:25 http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.txt Jun 16 22:27:30 how goes it everyone? Jun 16 22:27:51 asedeno_work_afk: I know the address. What do you like to say? Jun 16 22:27:57 asedeno_home_afk: thx - I'm actually looking for the FAQ that went with v2. Jun 16 22:28:04 nice article Jun 16 22:28:51 Oh, I was just posting it because rwhitby said, "t's quite difficult to find v2 on the fsf site any more ... Jun 16 22:29:10 pretend I quoted properly... shift isn't enter and I'm standing up and out the door. Jun 16 22:29:32 ah sorry meant the computerworld article linked above that Jun 16 22:29:34 asedeno_work_afk: ah, ok Jun 16 22:29:36 * Sargun needs to make the tracking app a little bit better Jun 16 22:29:51 asedeno_work_afk: We agree on no viloation but bad practice for the delay? Jun 16 22:30:18 rwhitby, not a bad article Jun 16 22:30:20 agree on no violation. less so on bad practice, but that's opinion. Jun 16 22:30:30 mostly a slam until the 2nd half though Jun 16 22:30:43 Also, I <3 emacs. =P Jun 16 22:30:52 * asedeno_work_afk is really afk now. Jun 16 22:31:04 sure, start a holy war and walk away. :) Jun 16 22:31:32 meh, emacs, vi, linux, windows - all just tools, a means to an end, not an end in themselves. Jun 16 22:31:37 the flash program is part of the doctor? Jun 16 22:32:10 tmzt: that's how I read it but I haven't dug into it yet (no pre yet alas) Jun 16 22:32:16 asedeno_work_afk: I just have seen Harald dealing with way to much companies that delayed over and over again... Jun 16 22:32:35 asedeno_work_afk: Which always amkes me sad that he deals with all this crap instead hacking. Jun 16 22:32:41 tmzt: the doctor definitely can reflash through the bootloader, yes. Jun 16 22:33:08 stefan_schmidt: yeah I hope the experience doesn't in any way resemble motorola's :) Jun 16 22:33:14 stefan_schmidt: one chooses their own battles ... Jun 16 22:33:32 tmzt: well, they are getting better nowadays. Jun 16 22:33:43 oh? Jun 16 22:33:44 rwhitby: Or the one nobody else claims. :) Jun 16 22:33:56 :) Jun 16 22:33:59 the magx source is almost unreadable Jun 16 22:34:07 rwhitby: but fsf task force is in good shape nowadays and the are workign pro-active on it. Jun 16 22:34:33 tmzt: well, the source quality is not covered by the license :) Jun 16 22:34:41 heh - gpl only requires the code to compile - it cannot mandate the quality of it :-) Jun 16 22:35:33 it would be funny if your license required other people to improve your code Jun 16 22:36:01 Btw, does anybody know what happens to ACCESS linux? the palm thing for linux. Jun 16 22:36:13 * stefan_schmidt wears a access linux shirt right now :) Jun 16 22:36:47 stefan_schmidt: I run it on my N800 Jun 16 22:37:02 Looking for a bit of help with rooting if anyone has a moment. My first question is has anyone been able to connect to the Pre with Windows 7 x64? Jun 16 22:37:12 anyone know the command to restart the pre through ssh? Jun 16 22:37:16 rwhitby: huh, never heard that they are that far already Jun 16 22:37:39 stefan_schmidt: I think that's the underlying technology for the garnet VM that runs on the n800 Jun 16 22:37:57 rwhitby: ah, that one yes. But they had alot more ideas. Jun 16 22:39:39 The Access Linux Platform (ALP), sometimes referred to as a "next-generation version of the Palm OS" is an open source-based operating system for mobile devices developed and marketed by Access Co., of Tokyo, Japan. The platform includes execution environments for Java, classic Palm OS, and GTK+-based native Linux applications. ALP has been demonstrated in devices[1] at a variety of conferences, including 3GSM,[2] LinuxWorld,[3] GUADEC, and Jun 16 22:39:39 Open Source in Mobile. Jun 16 22:39:41 err Jun 16 22:42:16 anyone know where i can get global-search-assistant.js, expanded-searches-div.html, and global-search.css Jun 16 22:42:21 i screwed up baddd Jun 16 22:42:25 no launcher at all Jun 16 22:43:00 everfine, in the doctor. Jun 16 22:43:26 http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596801816/#top Jun 16 22:43:39 where is root in the doctor? resources>.....? Jun 16 22:44:19 firmware update in 2 weeks? Jun 16 22:45:27 Sargun, im guessing resources>webOS.tar? Jun 16 22:47:38 The SDK will be released by August 6th I think Jun 16 22:48:54 Sargun: why do you think that? Jun 16 22:49:01 where can I find root/usr/lib....etc.... in the webosdoctorp100ewwsprint? anyone? Jun 16 22:49:09 aubilenon, PreDevCamp Jun 16 22:49:15 aha Jun 16 22:49:20 I've read several posts about how Sprint phones (or perhaps just the Pre?) are too reluctant to roam - will wait until signal is so low your call has already dropped. I know I don't live in a strong Sprint area, so this is a concern for me - and the only reason I haven't bought a Pre yet. Is there some workaround? Could I fix that by editing the PRL? Jun 16 22:49:43 beardousa, not quite, no. Jun 16 22:50:37 I feel like my old phone didn't even try to hand off from a sprint tower to a "roaming" one Jun 16 22:50:57 beardousa: roam only preference has been implemented, about the best you are going to do Jun 16 22:50:57 (since it would ask at the beginning of the call if I wanted to roam) Jun 16 22:51:14 I tried to access "sudo the_commands" but when it prompted for my password, i must have typed it in wrong, and now I can't get back to the prompt, is there a way to recover that password, or reset it? Jun 16 22:51:31 what password? Jun 16 22:51:57 the one set when you enable the optware package feed Jun 16 22:51:58 probably not, the password encryption is one way Jun 16 22:52:03 hELLO Jun 16 22:52:11 i NEED HELP Jun 16 22:52:27 take pills Jun 16 22:52:31 lol Jun 16 22:52:35 lmao Jun 16 22:52:36 sloppyjm: oh, easy, your caps lock key is on Jun 16 22:52:38 OK, well, I'll stop wasting brain cycles on it then, wait until it comes out on another provider Jun 16 22:52:43 ok so i got my pre in dev mode Jun 16 22:53:12 YES, YOU DO Jun 16 22:53:18 and i tried to get into root but im haveing uber problems conecting or geting the firewall thing down idk Jun 16 22:53:21 sloppyjim: join #preguides for beginners Jun 16 22:53:52 ok thanks Jun 16 22:54:56 are they trying to dissaude beginners over there? he obviously didn't have the requisite level of knowledge Jun 16 22:56:33 yes, to keep this channel clear of beginners. Jun 16 22:58:54 pullingj: I don't know that "dissaude beginners" is quite right. It's hard to walk someone through rooting their device if they don't know anything about linux Jun 16 22:59:17 and it gets asked over and over and over again Jun 16 22:59:35 and I think a lot of people see what we're doing as similar to jailbreaking an iPhone, which was made to be very very easy Jun 16 22:59:39 and is it worth the trouble? what are they going to do once they get it rooted? post their evdo ip and ssh password and ask someone else to implement some hack for them? Jun 16 23:00:10 YOOOOO Jun 16 23:00:11 well, that's the point, I think Jun 16 23:00:14 hi atlanta Jun 16 23:00:23 hi summatusmentis Jun 16 23:00:35 oh lalala just noticed tabbed worked in here Jun 16 23:00:42 for name completion Jun 16 23:00:48 maybe keep the numbers down in the webos-internals channel? Jun 16 23:00:50 I use the answer a lot "if you're asking that question, you probably don't need to do that" all the time with co workers for different tech stuff Jun 16 23:01:02 haha, tab name completion depends on your client Jun 16 23:01:14 lol mibbit ftw Jun 16 23:01:40 ive got to the point where i hate installing things and irc isnt my thing any way Jun 16 23:02:27 Anyone had any luck with bypassing activation? Jun 16 23:03:18 @Ajaxify Did you try the wiki stuff Jun 16 23:03:34 hey alanta can you pop into the other chat Jun 16 23:03:36 hemna: you still in here? Jun 16 23:03:43 atlanta: Yeah, I've been updating that page. Currently the phone boots but doesn't go past the palm logo. Jun 16 23:03:47 yah Jun 16 23:04:06 ohhhh Jun 16 23:04:06 hemna: I was catching up on the chat logs and noticed you mentioned something about getting a webcam working? or was that not you Jun 16 23:04:09 thats not good Jun 16 23:04:22 ummmm send me the link to it joe Jun 16 23:04:25 that's what I'm working on Jun 16 23:04:43 so am I... mind if I ask how you're going about it? Jun 16 23:05:01 I'm at square 1 basically right now Jun 16 23:05:06 learning how to get an app to run Jun 16 23:05:14 also playing with thttpd and php Jun 16 23:05:23 not sure how I'm going to actually do it just yet Jun 16 23:05:38 oh... so your planning on doing update picture every few secs type webcam? Jun 16 23:05:51 yah Jun 16 23:05:51 * rwhitby bbl Jun 16 23:06:11 ok. I'm trying to get a stream from the camera from the command line Jun 16 23:06:15 not working on an app yet Jun 16 23:06:30 Hello Does annyone have experiance rooting the palm pre with windows 7 Jun 16 23:06:43 sloppyjm: afaik, no one has been able to do it natively in Win7 Jun 16 23:06:55 everyone who had Win7 had to use the XP virtualization portion Jun 16 23:06:55 zinge, have you figured out how to get data from the camera outside of Luna ? Jun 16 23:06:58 Is there a way to tell if the messaging program is being displayed (i.e. I am reading messages) Jun 16 23:07:00 live stream from gstreamer or vlc to my pc, and from that to WDM driver to use as an actual webcam Jun 16 23:07:05 sloppyjm: someone was talking about that awhile ago, I suggested using the built in XP VM to do it. Not sure if that was successful. Jun 16 23:07:09 hemna: working on it. gstreamer seems to see the cam as a src Jun 16 23:07:28 I managed to break the camera app a few days ago redirecting it, vbut then had to sleep Jun 16 23:07:29 the camera app seems quite convoluted Jun 16 23:07:45 ajaxify: thank you i will try and do it with the virtual xp or use a differant computer thank you Jun 16 23:07:48 they put in a lot of hacks for timing issues it seems Jun 16 23:08:51 I know this is easy but how do you mount a .rootfs on Mac? Jun 16 23:09:18 I'm just ignoring it altogether for now Jun 16 23:09:18 as it seems the only "official" way of taking a picture in other apps is by calling the camera app and having it feed back the picture Jun 16 23:09:18 so I'm trying to access the camera outside of luna Jun 16 23:09:18 should be possibly, I just got side tracker for the past day or so Jun 16 23:09:22 i screwed up my .js and need the webdr's Jun 16 23:09:31 saide-tracked* Jun 16 23:09:35 oh Jun 16 23:09:37 oy Jun 16 23:09:39 can't type at all Jun 16 23:10:07 I was trying the other day to just get gstreamer to play anything.... audio test for example, and was having weird problems. Jun 16 23:10:28 But it shouldn't be too hard to get it to stream without displaying or playing anything on the phone itself Jun 16 23:10:28 I'm not familiar with the gstreamer apis Jun 16 23:10:33 me neither Jun 16 23:10:36 learning, slowly Jun 16 23:10:51 can you call the camera app to snap a pict from another webos app? Jun 16 23:11:06 I'm trying to get a script to determine if there are unread messages... succeeded in part, in that I can detect them with a db query, but they don't get marked "read" until the app is closed, rather then when the message is actually read... any one have ideas for a way to check if the app is open? Jun 16 23:11:15 * hemna hopes the SDK comes out soon Jun 16 23:11:55 what was the problem with ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '' Jun 16 23:11:56 ? Jun 16 23:12:25 nevermind Jun 16 23:12:40 yes, that what it seems like you need to do Jun 16 23:13:00 there's an example on how to do that... google mojo api's, I forgot the page Jun 16 23:13:56 you mean bing mojo apis? Jun 16 23:13:58 :p Jun 16 23:14:32 wierd now my XPx64 doesn't install the drivers Jun 16 23:14:50 zinge, any idea the url for that example....looking but don't see it Jun 16 23:15:17 gimme a sec, I'll look through my history/bookmarks Jun 16 23:15:18 can i not just get into the nova-cust-image-castle.rootfs.tar.gz guys? i've already rooted and done all i want to do right now. All I need is for someone to tell me how i can get the backup .js file from the .rootfs from my computer, not my phone?! Jun 16 23:17:26 pEEF on the precentral forums has bypassed activation! http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1685239&posted=1#post1685005 Jun 16 23:18:35 hemna: http://www.weboshelp.net/webos-mojo-development-resources/api-reference/423-mojocontrollerscenecontrollerservicerequest Jun 16 23:18:39 scroll down to camera Jun 16 23:19:31 zinge, sweet thanks Jun 16 23:19:34 I'll give it a hack Jun 16 23:19:37 I'm gonna go eat, figur eout why my firefox cpu usage keeps spiking, finally switch from mibbit to mirc, and I'll come back on in a little and work on gstreamer on Jun 16 23:19:58 hemna: you gonna be on for another hour or so? I'll be back and see if I can get the camera stream working then Jun 16 23:20:21 I'm probably going to head home...been at work. I'll be back online in an hour Jun 16 23:20:33 ok, cool Jun 16 23:20:41 I didn't do any work all day...thanks to my Pre Jun 16 23:21:42 The new smartphone with multitasking, for greater productivity ;-) Jun 16 23:22:46 hehe Jun 16 23:22:51 fudge im going to xp 32bit Jun 16 23:22:52 tonight Jun 16 23:23:01 64 is getting me agrue lately Jun 16 23:23:38 * zinge will bbl Jun 16 23:31:52 Has anyone played with getting http://www.directfb.org/index.php?path=Projects%2FDFBTerm working on the palm pre yet? It looks like maybe it could be run in the same manner as doom. Jun 16 23:32:10 i think the wiki has osmething Jun 16 23:33:10 Also fyi ajaxphpterm + thttpd-php seem to sort of work... at least better than what's on prewiki now. I'll check the wiki... Jun 16 23:33:10 hey, where do I find my pre username to ssh to via wifi Jun 16 23:33:37 where "sort of" means someone whith php clue could probably change the size of the terminal and have it working nicely in short order. Jun 16 23:35:32 (specifically http://predev.wikidot.com/shell seems to not have text on screen unless "return" is pressed repeatedly) Jun 16 23:36:00 nope nothing on DFBTerm on prewiki... I'll look at logs and then dive in :) Jun 16 23:36:45 For all those waiting to get going on a non-activated Pre, I finally figured out how to get it past the profile creation wizard Jun 16 23:36:58 what is the password to login to my pre via SSH on wifi? Jun 16 23:39:19 collzx: whatever you set your new user's password to Jun 16 23:40:27 "I'm not entirely clear on why it's shipping things like fsck.ext4 though I guess you could use an ext4 sd card or something." lol Jun 16 23:41:29 djbclark, i never set the new users password, where would I do so? Jun 16 23:42:42 pEEf: I'm trying your method right now. Jun 16 23:43:06 cool Ajaxify, let me know how it goes! Jun 16 23:43:14 Also, if you need any help. Jun 16 23:43:40 The thing that was the hardest was getting the jar packed back up with it's working manifest. Jun 16 23:44:01 I'm not a Java guy at all. It's new to me. Jun 16 23:44:19 The command is (if I'm sitting in the fs root): patch -p1 patchfile Jun 16 23:44:22 right? Jun 16 23:44:59 add < Jun 16 23:45:24 oh shit, thats why it was taking forever. hah Jun 16 23:45:55 Umm, I don't think you need the p1 with the full path. Jun 16 23:46:03 pEEf: who did you ask for wiki access? Jun 16 23:46:13 (re: "Well, nobody will give me write access to the wiki" Jun 16 23:46:15 And that assumes your files are in the Pre's original paths Jun 16 23:46:39 rwhitby: emkman Jun 16 23:47:01 pEEf: did he refuse, or just hasn't gotten to it yet? Jun 16 23:47:09 (how long ago did you ask?) Jun 16 23:47:12 I guess he just hasn't been around Jun 16 23:47:36 I PM'd him yesterday. Not been that long, but I've got a bunch of things! Jun 16 23:48:29 While I'm still in "gung-ho" mode, I figured I should go ahead and post them, otherwise I may get distracted (or lazy) and not do it later. Jun 16 23:49:20 yay download the BELL MOBILE pre webos doctor https://ws.palm.com/SupportDownload/app?service=external/Home&sp=45 Jun 16 23:49:56 pEEf: you didn't need to edit the md5sum file to get this to flash? Jun 16 23:50:22 hello. i followed the guide here: http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository for rooting my pre. unfortunately, i forgot to execute steps 11 and 14. Now i can't telnet into my Pre. Is there a way to revert back the settings or disable drop bear? Jun 16 23:50:53 jaekwon: just start the root instructions from the beginning again, and then do the steps you missed. Jun 16 23:51:17 i did, i can't telnet into my device Jun 16 23:51:33 it's asking for the username, which i didn't set up because i skipped step 11 Jun 16 23:51:44 and we can talk about tethering! Jun 16 23:53:17 job59: is bell mobile selling a pre with a plan that allows tethering? Jun 16 23:54:02 jaekwon, get novaproxy/talk.py Jun 16 23:55:21 jaekwon: you followed the instructions from scratch once, you can do the same thing again to get back in. Jun 16 23:56:06 job59: hmm.... its not accepting my s/n Jun 16 23:56:09 rwhitby, Does GSM have that capability Jun 16 23:56:37 Sargun: sure does, but it still depends on your carrier plan allowing tethering. Jun 16 23:56:38 job59: bell? when? Jun 16 23:56:46 that's gsm right? Jun 16 23:56:56 if it's unlocked GSM, then there's no problem, because there are lots of GSM plans in the world that do allow tethering. Jun 16 23:57:10 how come when I login to my pre via ssh on wifi and type "ls" nothing comes up? Jun 16 23:57:17 if it's locked GSM, and the carrier it's locked to does not allow tethering, then the policy issue still exists. Jun 16 23:57:22 what will the novaproxy/talk.py do Jun 16 23:57:27 i'm on windows xp Jun 16 23:57:31 Collzx: you are in a directory with no files in it? Jun 16 23:58:09 job59: because you need a bell mobile pre s/n? Jun 16 23:58:21 Lurking_Grue: Oh, why did it cd into that directory when I logged in? I got out of it though Jun 16 23:58:24 pre not listed on bell's website either Jun 16 23:58:38 jaekwon: the novaproxy over USB method will still work. Jun 16 23:58:47 Collzx: probably the home directory of the account. Jun 16 23:59:10 how do i use novaproxy on winxp? Jun 17 00:00:28 Here is the Python file for doing so: http://github.com/asedeno/novaproxy/tree/master Jun 17 00:01:10 You run it, then "telnet localhost 8023" Jun 17 00:01:26 That'll get you back into a shell so you can fix whatever you need. Jun 17 00:03:13 okay i'll try that. thanks Jun 17 00:05:22 pre is list on bell's wireless front page Jun 17 00:05:50 right here http://bell.ca/shopping/PrsShpWls_Landing.page?language=en®ion=ON Jun 17 00:08:00 and here Jun 17 00:08:06 http://pre.bell.ca/en?INT=MOB_SA_Q2_EN_palmpre_TM_moblndpg_pos1 Jun 17 00:08:37 job59: pre.bell.ca still says "coming soon" Jun 17 00:09:13 and the firmware is here now Jun 17 00:09:36 job59: how can it be, if you don't have a bell s/n ? Jun 17 00:09:56 the instructions on http://predev.wikidot.com/global-search-addons are wrong somewhere. Here is the result: http://i39.tinypic.com/28tfh9t.png Jun 17 00:10:05 thats whats great about having a brain, you can think Jun 17 00:10:39 job59: is there a need to be nasty about this conversation? Jun 17 00:11:47 i wasnt trying to be nasty, im just saying creativity is necessary Jun 17 00:12:10 ok, so it's not a public release of bell firmware then. Jun 17 00:12:24 or maybe it doesn't work after you already installed the ability to add pages. Jun 17 00:12:51 its as public as the sprint one is to someone who doesnt own a pre (ahem) Jun 17 00:13:02 job59: do you know if bell allows tethering in their plans that they intend to offer for the Pre? Jun 17 00:13:17 job59: no, the sprint one is a download freely available from palm.com/rom Jun 17 00:13:34 nope, go back there, you need an s/n Jun 17 00:13:53 HOW DARE THY INSULT THY GODLY MODERATOR Jun 17 00:14:01 * PreGame slaps wmirc around a bit with a large trout Jun 17 00:14:06 *sigh* Jun 17 00:14:27 job59: ah, an update to that page. interesting. Jun 17 00:14:50 my pre has been acting VERY slow and today would not turn on when I hit the power button Jun 17 00:15:04 let me guess, it's because palm doesn Jun 17 00:15:04 i have not hacked it or anything since the last format Jun 17 00:15:25 t want people messing with webos, including us Jun 17 00:15:27 PreGame: it is depressed and feels violated. Jun 17 00:15:53 job59: too early to assume why Jun 17 00:16:09 what Jun 17 00:16:30 rwhitby: it always needed a serial Jun 17 00:17:04 Is "Root your pre and enable write access" the same as ssh into your pre, the su to where it says root@castle#:? Jun 17 00:17:20 what Jun 17 00:17:32 everfine: no, enabling write access means to run the rootfs_open -w Jun 17 00:17:35 everfine: by default ssh is not installed. you have to install ssh and create a user. Jun 17 00:17:44 ShinAli: I downloaded the doctor without a Pre serial Jun 17 00:17:49 been there done that Jun 17 00:17:56 well then, you're set Jun 17 00:18:03 ShinAli: I didn't need a serial either. Jun 17 00:18:08 lamontsf: mount -o remount,rw / is Root your pre Jun 17 00:18:15 (for the sprint/palm one) Jun 17 00:18:18 on the instr. page. Jun 17 00:18:29 ShinAli: or does the serial just present an open URL which we used? Jun 17 00:18:29 i dunno when it first came out i always saw it needing a serial Jun 17 00:18:44 ShinAli: i think so Jun 17 00:18:54 but its just asking for the phone's serial, right? Jun 17 00:19:05 if so, then job59 is correct that it is as public as the sprint one. apologies job59. Jun 17 00:19:12 everfine: that command is the same as the one I gave you for enabling write access on the / filesystem Jun 17 00:19:14 rwhitby: You downloaded the files from palm.cdnetworks.net which is where the palm.com/rom install file links too Jun 17 00:19:25 to "root a system" generally means to get root access to it Jun 17 00:19:27 yeh Jun 17 00:19:32 typically via unauthorized means Jun 17 00:19:36 heh, not in .au Jun 17 00:19:48 no Jun 17 00:19:49 i referred to myself when in reply to you rwhitby Jun 17 00:19:58 to "root" a system in .au means to make it unserviceable :-) Jun 17 00:19:58 ok lamontsf: then confirmed, the instructions for Global Search Addons are messed up somewhere. Anyone wanna find out where? Jun 17 00:20:00 but all they're saying with that line is to get terminal access, via novaterm or ssh, and enable the / filsystem for writing Jun 17 00:20:03 root your pre means to put it in the ground and watching it grow a pre tree Jun 17 00:20:30 wouldn't it be a palm tree? Jun 17 00:20:42 * PreGame slaps Bartman007 around a bit with a large trout Jun 17 00:20:44 http://predev.wikidot.com/global-search-addons results in: http://i39.tinypic.com/28tfh9t.png Jun 17 00:21:36 job59: is the final download URL for the bell doctor the same URL as the final download url for the sprint doctor? Jun 17 00:21:45 did you save original copies of the files before you modified them? Can you run diff on it to see if you made all the changes? Jun 17 00:21:58 yes i did and i did Jun 17 00:21:59 are there any messages showing up in /var/log/messages complaining about malformed .js? Jun 17 00:22:35 bellmo "external/Home&sp=45" sprint "external/Home&sp=44" Jun 17 00:22:40 I haven't done any of the global search addons, so I'm not much help for running through those instructions Jun 17 00:23:02 there is no malformed .js Jun 17 00:23:08 hey guys, funny thing Jun 17 00:23:10 i got another pre Jun 17 00:23:23 I'll take your spare. Jun 17 00:23:32 job59: does it eventually go to http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre_p100eww/webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar ? Jun 17 00:23:35 unfunny thing, i got it in a way that i would never want to get it Jun 17 00:23:57 off the back of a trunk? Jun 17 00:24:05 no Jun 17 00:24:09 no, it's much sadder than that Jun 17 00:24:09 in the butt? Jun 17 00:24:11 out of a dung pile? Jun 17 00:24:14 lamontsf: my js looks like this http://webos.pastebin.com/m680995b9 Jun 17 00:24:31 ShinAli: oh no, I hope a friend has not passed away ... Jun 17 00:24:45 rwhitby: a friend named Pre? Jun 17 00:24:52 rwhitby: no, thank god its not as bad as that Jun 17 00:25:06 ShinAli: gift to g/f which she gave back? Jun 17 00:25:10 you sold your butt for a pre Jun 17 00:25:36 everfine: how about your /usr/lib/luna/system/luna-applauncher/stylesheets/global-search.css Jun 17 00:26:03 rwhitby: worse, it involved the aforementioned person going to prison Jun 17 00:26:10 lamontsf: http://webos.pastebin.com/m3dbe00c Jun 17 00:26:14 your gf went to prison? Jun 17 00:26:15 your bf went to prison Jun 17 00:26:19 err gf Jun 17 00:26:22 sorry typo Jun 17 00:26:23 jinx Jun 17 00:26:27 everfine: is that the whole file? Jun 17 00:26:28 PreGame: sure... Jun 17 00:26:30 no but its a close person Jun 17 00:26:41 your baby's momma Jun 17 00:26:43 ShinAli: hopefully not for talking about tethering ... ;-) Jun 17 00:26:43 cant say I've ever known anyone who has gone to prison Jun 17 00:26:50 or even spent a night in jail Jun 17 00:26:56 rwhitby: nah something else Jun 17 00:27:13 sell it on ebay for $299 Jun 17 00:27:14 lamontsf: whole file: http://webos.pastebin.com/m59a242a8 Jun 17 00:27:14 ShinAli: so you're just looking after it for a while then .... Jun 17 00:27:36 i might sell it to a family member, its on my family account Jun 17 00:28:05 but i'll buy a new one once they come back Jun 17 00:28:08 lamontsf: whole global-search-assistant.js file http://webos.pastebin.com/m33c8d969 Jun 17 00:28:11 everfine: is that palm copyright code you've just pastebin'd? Jun 17 00:28:28 guys, please don't link to distribution of palm copyrighted files here. Jun 17 00:28:40 for now anyways Jun 17 00:28:44 oh sorry, I didn't think about that Jun 17 00:28:46 sorry, how can i show someone my file then rwhitby Jun 17 00:28:53 use a filename and line number from the doctor jar Jun 17 00:28:59 and a diff for any patches Jun 17 00:29:02 the mojo stuff will be open in the SDK for documentation reasons Jun 17 00:29:07 if there's no copyright in the file, does that count? Jun 17 00:29:21 it's automatically copyright to the author will all rights reserved. Jun 17 00:29:25 berne convention Jun 17 00:29:26 ok Jun 17 00:29:28 whatever happened to this being open-source? Jun 17 00:29:34 who ever said it was? Jun 17 00:29:38 haha Jun 17 00:29:50 everfine: its the mojo framework, its not necessarily open source Jun 17 00:29:54 everfine: using the linux kernel doesn't magically make the entire phone OS open source. Jun 17 00:30:11 and just because you have the code/source doesn't make it open source. Jun 17 00:30:12 webOS is open source Jun 17 00:30:15 Mojo is most definitely not open source. Jun 17 00:30:21 webOS is not opensource Jun 17 00:30:28 where are you getting these ideas? Jun 17 00:30:35 I wish palm would approve my SDK request Jun 17 00:30:42 it be much nicer if it was :) Jun 17 00:30:46 or just release mojo Jun 17 00:31:09 has anybody heard any reasons why the SDK still isn't public? Jun 17 00:31:15 As for open source, so is WebOS, as it’s based on the open source Linux OS. That makes WebOS open source by definition; anyone who wants to can get the source code from Palm. Jun 17 00:31:19 lamontsf: it's not ready yet? Jun 17 00:31:24 everfine: using the linux kernel doesn't magically make the entire phone OS open source. Jun 17 00:31:30 lamontsf: the parts of webos that are linux are open source Jun 17 00:31:33 the SDK will have that mojo stuff and the only reason why the mojo framework is on the pre is for documentation and debugging reasons Jun 17 00:31:37 everfine: using the linux kernel doesn't magically make the entire phone OS open source. Jun 17 00:31:44 lamontsf: but webos is basically an app running on linux Jun 17 00:31:47 everfine: I'm afraid you're mistaken. Jun 17 00:31:48 everfine: you don't know much about open source, do you Jun 17 00:31:50 which app is not itself oepn source Jun 17 00:32:07 oh that should have been directed at everfine, sorry Jun 17 00:32:13 abilenon: I think you're arguing with the wrong person. I have no illusions about the apps or OS being open source Jun 17 00:32:16 right Jun 17 00:32:19 aubilenon: any app on the device that does not declare itself to be open source. Jun 17 00:32:19 np Jun 17 00:32:45 my linux usage has been weak for the past couple of years, but i thought there was a utility that could determine the kernel build variables (maybe this is just on a normal distro). is it possible to recompile our kernels? Jun 17 00:32:49 For starters, all of the custom Palm native and java objects for which source code is not furnished. :-) Jun 17 00:32:56 konsoleX: /proc/config.gz Jun 17 00:33:02 everfine: Are you using a Linux OS on your pc? Jun 17 00:33:10 on my Mac Jun 17 00:33:19 konsoleX: but we don't have the source for the kernel yet. Jun 17 00:33:33 everfine: so by your reasoning Snow Leopard from apple is open source? Jun 17 00:33:40 They don't make it easy to find the live chat do they Jun 17 00:33:44 Ok go ahead and give me your bank login information as I'm sure you have logged into your bank account via your PC which if I understand you correctly your saying would make it open source. Jun 17 00:33:50 "Linux" is just a kernel. most linux distros are based on "GNU/Linux" which is a distribution of many GNU userland utilities along with the Linux kernel. Jun 17 00:34:00 I don't know how you derived that. Jun 17 00:34:02 Bartman007: shipping device drivers prelinked to the linux kernel does make those device drivers gpl... most of the OS is busybox, which is also gpl Jun 17 00:34:07 Did this channel catch the stupid this afternoon? Jun 17 00:34:23 chrisa: must be when i got in Jun 17 00:34:34 though i do not see the link! Jun 17 00:34:40 * ShinAli durrs Jun 17 00:34:41 most of the underlying os, rather Jun 17 00:34:43 * aubilenon sneezes stupid germs all over the place Jun 17 00:34:57 JackieRipper: the waters get rather muddy when it is possible to use GPL kernel stubs to interact with binary drivers. Jun 17 00:34:57 let's be nice. we can educate without being nasty :-) Jun 17 00:35:01 yeah but palm has to make the kernel public to comply with GPL, right? Jun 17 00:35:07 rwhitby +1 Jun 17 00:35:09 konsoleX: yep Jun 17 00:35:18 darwin is open source not os/x Jun 17 00:35:22 rwhitby: w00t Jun 17 00:35:27 Bartman007: only when they are shipped pre-linked. The gpl is /very/ specific about this Jun 17 00:35:37 We need to release the source of anything we modified, general GPL rules Jun 17 00:35:45 konsoleX: mails requesting the kernel source have got various responses saying it will be available within a couple of weeks Jun 17 00:36:02 undoubtably part of the SDK Jun 17 00:36:06 konsoleX: there is a written offer included on the device in a PDF file Jun 17 00:36:13 (and in the doco I presume as well) Jun 17 00:36:13 was the difference between GPL and LGPL? Jun 17 00:36:19 what's Jun 17 00:36:26 the L Jun 17 00:36:29 lgpl is less restrictive Jun 17 00:36:33 The only thing I'd need to check on is whether we need to release in house drivers we wrote from scratch, since they link to the kernel. I've always been iffy on how that worked Jun 17 00:36:34 in a nutshell Jun 17 00:36:45 l allows linking, the normal does not Jun 17 00:37:12 chrisa: yeah, that's still a grey area, with no legal precedents and kernel devs on both sides of the fence. Jun 17 00:37:18 chrisa: what you talkin about willis? Jun 17 00:37:33 chrisa: he's talking about device drivers Jun 17 00:37:36 er Jun 17 00:37:39 PreGame Jun 17 00:37:46 dang why am i retarded with irc Jun 17 00:37:52 chrisa: what's clear is that if you used a GPL export symbol, your module is GPL'd. Jun 17 00:37:57 o.O Jun 17 00:38:08 ok,, so we got so caught up in waving our geek genitals that we forget about the problem with Global Search Addons? Jun 17 00:38:10 if you don't use any GPL export symbols, then it's a grey area. Jun 17 00:38:11 is chrisa with palm? Jun 17 00:38:15 i think anything that speaks to the kernel would have to be released but if there is some funky middleware then the source for that can be released only Jun 17 00:38:21 pre he is. Jun 17 00:38:23 all the .so libs are in /lib or/usr/lib on the pre, right ? Jun 17 00:38:28 PreGame: he is. Jun 17 00:38:34 then he can tell you what is open source and what isn't Jun 17 00:38:38 konsoleX: I don't believe that's the case. Look at binary kernel drivers Jun 17 00:38:38 chrisa is from palm, but is not speaking for Palm I expect. Jun 17 00:38:38 Why does latency have to suck so much? Jun 17 00:38:51 man live chat people are slow Jun 17 00:38:54 rwhitby: not so clear Jun 17 00:38:58 The reason the nVidia driver, for example, in never shipped pre-installed is that that would violate the gpl. The user may do the linking, but then may not distribute. Jun 17 00:39:10 and yes, I never speak for the company. I'm just another schmuck Jun 17 00:39:11 for a device like a pre, its pretty clear as you are selling them the whole device Jun 17 00:39:12 ahh Jun 17 00:39:17 shaya: not clear when you use a GPL export symbol? Jun 17 00:39:24 depends on the use case Jun 17 00:39:26 imagine this Jun 17 00:39:29 I code a module Jun 17 00:39:32 I give you the source Jun 17 00:39:36 you compile it locally and install it Jun 17 00:39:40 then sell it Jun 17 00:39:43 does my module have to be GPLd? Jun 17 00:39:48 is there a L/GPL for dummies anywhere Jun 17 00:39:53 what about if I don't give you the source, I just give you the binary Jun 17 00:39:54 google.com Jun 17 00:39:58 shaya: does it use a GPL export symbol or not? Jun 17 00:40:04 for argument sake, yes. Jun 17 00:40:11 the GPL only affects redistribution of GPLd code Jun 17 00:40:14 then it's GPLd and you need to give me the source. Jun 17 00:40:26 I believe that's the stance Linus takes. Jun 17 00:40:27 if I link against a GPLd listed symbol, what GPLd code am I redistributing? Jun 17 00:40:40 http://www.gnu.org/licenses/ ? Jun 17 00:40:42 ShinAli: short summary: LesserGPL (LGPL) allows free libraries to be linked into propritary software. Jun 17 00:40:43 rwhitby: it have a hard time holding up in court Jun 17 00:40:51 now a palm pre is different Jun 17 00:40:52 shaya: sure - most things do :-) Jun 17 00:41:01 as palm is giving me both the kernel (GPL) and the module Jun 17 00:41:07 so they would be considered a single entity Jun 17 00:41:14 chrisa, how has work been for you lately ? Jun 17 00:41:14 shaya: that's why I said there is no legal precedent on kernel modules Jun 17 00:41:15 Bartman007: oh, then GPL libraries can only be linked to GPL software? Jun 17 00:41:22 bpadalino: busy Jun 17 00:41:26 ShinAli: you are free to link with the library without releasing your source, but if you modify the library you must release those changes. Jun 17 00:41:28 wow, still huh ? Jun 17 00:41:31 rwhitby: in general the GPL sucks for dynamic linking Jun 17 00:41:33 pro tip: dont drop your pre, it wont survive the fall Jun 17 00:41:34 (under LGPL) Jun 17 00:41:37 i would have thought once the release was out - it would start to settle alittle ? Jun 17 00:41:39 period Jun 17 00:41:43 j0sh: I did it, and it survived. Jun 17 00:41:44 the FSF claims that a non GPLd program can't dynamic link against a GPLd library Jun 17 00:41:46 or is it going to be "release early, release often" mentality ? Jun 17 00:41:46 j0sh: Thanks for the late warning Jun 17 00:41:51 j0sh, bah, I've been dropping it left n right Jun 17 00:41:53 shaya: except Linux specifically excludes things that use the syscall interface from being a derived work Jun 17 00:42:04 but I've spoken with one of their lawyers and off the record it was something he told me he wouldn't want to defend in court Jun 17 00:42:06 Bartman007: modify /and/ distribute Jun 17 00:42:09 I dropped it and my keyboard stuck then when I unstuck it the bottom of the screen changed to awefull colors Jun 17 00:42:34 I'm not talking about syscall interface Jun 17 00:42:40 you can modify all you want without releasing the source, but once you distribute, you must release the source to anyone who wants it Jun 17 00:42:42 I agree that this doesn't make it a dervied work Jun 17 00:42:43 just modules Jun 17 00:42:46 JackieRipper: I thought that was assumed, but yes. Jun 17 00:42:54 shaya: agreed - my understanding is that if you dynamically link with a GPL'd program, then you're going to suffer the ire of the GPL supporters, but probably not get sued by anyone, Jun 17 00:43:01 JackieRipper: technically you only need to release the source to people who have the binaries Jun 17 00:43:09 rwhitby: that's correct, like closed source binary graphics drivers :( i guess palm doesn't have to release those... i foresee a lot of kernel patches in the pre's future Jun 17 00:43:11 I believe Jun 17 00:43:12 rwhitby: and kernel module dynamic links with kernel Jun 17 00:43:14 I heard there was a Palm rep in chat here. Can anyone point me in their direction? Jun 17 00:43:22 There are none Jun 17 00:43:26 rwhitby: i thought there was some foundation to make those legal cases Jun 17 00:43:32 shaya: yes, so the ire is clear, but there is no legal precedent Jun 17 00:43:40 ok Jun 17 00:43:41 so we agree Jun 17 00:43:42 Bartman007: no, section 3b says "any third party" Jun 17 00:43:48 JayCanuck: there are no Palm "reps" in here Jun 17 00:44:02 there are palm employee's but not reps Jun 17 00:44:20 ^ huge difference Jun 17 00:44:22 Palm has made no official statement in this channel, ever. Jun 17 00:44:29 BIG OL' BOWL OF DIFFERENCE Jun 17 00:44:29 neat - cross compiling environment setup on os x Jun 17 00:44:30 SO much for *Any* credit union lol Jun 17 00:44:31 wiki updated Jun 17 00:44:41 it is a huge difference, i'm sure security guards are palm employees ;) Jun 17 00:44:45 I guess you could ship the source with the binary... but if you don't, you have to give the source to anyone that asks for it Jun 17 00:44:47 lol Jun 17 00:44:48 bpadalino: sorry i hadn't had much chance to look at it Jun 17 00:44:57 shinali, not a problem - i figured it out myself Jun 17 00:45:05 for all we know chrisa cleans the toilets Jun 17 00:45:09 * bdumm wonders if we need a #pregpl channel... Jun 17 00:45:10 shinali, simple directions to follow - that's for sure Jun 17 00:45:12 Our security guards make me feel tiny. I hate using the gym after one of them and having to cut the weights by 2/3 Jun 17 00:45:13 konsoleX: isn't security usually contracted through an agency? ;-) Jun 17 00:45:14 we welcome the things that palm employees say in this channel, but realise that they are not speaking on behalf of Palm. Jun 17 00:45:19 Stik: you trying to get the 25% discount? Jun 17 00:45:21 http://www.precentral.net/webos-updates-mandatory-will-be-forced-if-they-have#comments one commenter said "One of the palm reps in the #webos-internals channel said this story was bogus. Don't know what to believe, but either way I'm not worried." Jun 17 00:45:24 just open a cheapo account with alliant Jun 17 00:45:30 i.e. deposit a few bucks Jun 17 00:45:37 bpadalino: which directions did you use? Jun 17 00:45:46 jblebrun, i just installed using macports Jun 17 00:45:47 JayCanuck: an employee said that, but it wasn't a "rep" Jun 17 00:45:49 JayCanuck: whoever wrote that misspoke then Jun 17 00:45:51 Think it's 10% but yeah Jun 17 00:45:57 I'm cleaning the hell out of my macports Jun 17 00:45:57 jblebrun, there is a bug in the gcc portfile - but i fixed it Jun 17 00:46:01 it was in a sad state ;-) Jun 17 00:46:10 Was it a bug related to makeinfo? Jun 17 00:46:11 jblebrun, hehe .. i did the selfupdate and upgrade outdated Jun 17 00:46:12 The guy who said that isn't here right now though Jun 17 00:46:12 Stik: alliant credit union gets 25% Jun 17 00:46:15 JayCanuk: pretty much the entire internet seems to think that employees are speaking for Palm in this channel, but that is not true. Jun 17 00:46:18 jblebrun: it was a cc bug .. Jun 17 00:46:22 Alliant you have to be in the chicago area no? Jun 17 00:46:30 it didn't include an include directory Jun 17 00:46:32 JayCanuck: Anything said on the innernetz is for realz and must be trusted Jun 17 00:46:35 and iconv would not be found Jun 17 00:46:38 lol Jun 17 00:46:40 eh Jun 17 00:46:42 konsoleX: I think they will have to release drivers. They are shipping pre-linked Jun 17 00:46:43 i just did a hello world.. Jun 17 00:46:50 have my doubts that this is enforced Jun 17 00:46:50 Speaking of credit unions, if you're in the bay I'd highly recommend tech cu. I even deposited my tax refund into someone else's account and they helped me Jun 17 00:46:55 but never tried Jun 17 00:46:58 lol Jun 17 00:47:01 i'm with IBM and they give 25% Jun 17 00:47:11 chrisa: well they helped you but how about that other person? :D Jun 17 00:47:13 chrisa, wow - did it involve meeting someone in a parking lot with a baseball bat ? Jun 17 00:47:14 Suppose I could try.. whats the worst that can happen? They deny me? Jun 17 00:47:23 chrisa: stay on-topic or I'll have to kick-ban you ;-) Jun 17 00:47:25 right Jun 17 00:47:35 rwhitby: hey, someone else was mentioning credit unions Jun 17 00:47:43 * chrisa gets that Judge Dredd vision again Jun 17 00:47:45 chrisa: does that fit the persona you wanted before? Jun 17 00:47:59 chrisa: my employer uses them. Jun 17 00:48:01 So, with exams and hatnot, what've I missed in 3-4 days? Jun 17 00:48:23 missing|No: Windows 7 now runs on the Pre. Jun 17 00:48:26 missing|No, nothing, just how to root talk and all day today gpl etc talk Jun 17 00:48:32 ah Jun 17 00:48:35 alliant is a pretty great CU, i've been with them for several years Jun 17 00:48:37 zomg windows 7?!?!? nowai!!!!! Jun 17 00:48:45 just as a savings account holder, though Jun 17 00:48:47 hell i missed that, too with all this other noise.... Jun 17 00:48:49 lol Jun 17 00:48:50 (for those that didn't get it, that was an in-joke with chrisa. we don't kick-ban for legit off-topic talk, but we do discourage it so that the logs are not clogged for those people who follow the logs) Jun 17 00:48:55 * konsoleX posts headline::: fark: not news: palm employee banned from IRC. ironic: was from the webos channel. Jun 17 00:49:03 rwhitby, pfffftttt Jun 17 00:49:06 Sprint / Nextel is offering discounted service to all active Credit Union members. Here's how you can get started: <-- Does that not say *All*? Jun 17 00:49:29 konsoleX: haha Jun 17 00:51:11 So, has anyone tried out quilt for managing modifications to application source files on the Pre? Jun 17 00:51:38 meh, just initialize a git repo on the root fs Jun 17 00:51:42 when I installed dropbear, I did not modify the script so that it will accept ssh connections over EVDO. how can I go back and change that so it'll accept the connection over EVDO and wifi? Jun 17 00:51:46 Actually, I kinda want to try that now... Jun 17 00:52:14 chrisa: that's what http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap is meant to be :-) Jun 17 00:52:29 chrisa: probably want to use something like etckeeper (or similar) to keep consistant permissions. Jun 17 00:52:33 WillJitsu: remove the "-i eth0" sections of your webos-sshenabler file in /etc/event.d/ (i think that's where it is) Jun 17 00:52:46 WillJitsu: it's on 2 consecutive lines Jun 17 00:52:57 I thought all the cool kids were using github these days. What is gitorious? Jun 17 00:53:06 chrisa: at work, all the machines have any locally modified directly in a subversion checkout at / Jun 17 00:53:12 chrisa: similar to github but free. Jun 17 00:53:16 modified files Jun 17 00:53:29 gitorious is the cooler one :-) Jun 17 00:53:35 heh Jun 17 00:53:36 cooler Jun 17 00:53:39 teams and projects and stuff, and free. Jun 17 00:53:52 gitorious made it easy to group repos together, that's for sure Jun 17 00:53:54 and the source code for it is available, so you can host your own if they go belly up Jun 17 00:54:08 and they do openid logins Jun 17 00:54:09 nice Jun 17 00:54:10 konsoleX: thanks. once I've done that, I just reboot the device and it should be ready? Jun 17 00:54:27 WillJitsu: yes Jun 17 00:54:28 neat, I hadn't noticed they use the AGPL Jun 17 00:54:31 github is sooooo 2008 Jun 17 00:54:44 git is so early 21st century Jun 17 00:55:03 shaya: darcs is what the cool kids use? Jun 17 00:55:08 Bartman007: that was a key part of my decision Jun 17 00:55:16 so we can host it at OSUOSL if needed Jun 17 00:55:36 konsoleX: in order to ssh over EVDO, does the device need to be plugged up to charge like it does when using wifi? Jun 17 00:55:46 rwhitby: I'm still amused that Google does not allow AGPL to be used on googlecode Jun 17 00:56:48 WillJitsu: no, but powerd sends out MANY annoying walls while the device is not plugged in Jun 17 00:56:50 what's AGPL? Jun 17 00:56:54 WillJitsu: not 100% certain on that, but i generally keep mine on power... the battery drain is absurd Jun 17 00:57:08 aubilenon: Affero GPL, covers web content in addition to code. Jun 17 00:57:17 WillJitsu: powerd can hose your 'screen' sessions badly too Jun 17 00:57:23 err, content of services, not just web stuff. Jun 17 00:57:28 ah Jun 17 00:57:44 ^a^l should fix hosed screens Jun 17 00:58:17 has anybody had any luck getting data from the accellerometer? Jun 17 00:58:32 pullingj: I'm not sure exactly what sending out many annoying walls means, but basically you're telling me to keep it plugged in when making a connection to it, right? Jun 17 00:58:46 pullingj: not always, i've had certain screens totally froze from powerd. although i issued a "mesg n" from my primary user Jun 17 00:58:51 WillJitsu: it broadcasts messages on all ptys Jun 17 00:58:57 I see the sockets in /var/tmp/hidd/Accelerometer* but have no idea how to get data from it Jun 17 00:59:05 does 'mesg n' work? Jun 17 00:59:32 WillJitsu: ssh in over evdo while it's not plugged in and you will see what I mean. powerd sends out system "wall"s everytime it changes state and it does it quite often, look at /var/log/messages for an idea Jun 17 00:59:39 rwhitby: it didn't when I tried it Jun 17 00:59:53 pullingj: oh I gotcha Jun 17 00:59:54 rwhitby: seems to have worked for my added user acct, i didn't try it on root but i would like one account receiving Jun 17 01:00:03 you could disable wall chmod 644 wall would fix the problem Jun 17 01:00:55 of course, i now detach from my screen before going away... Jun 17 01:02:18 I want to set up the dynamic dns on the Pre. Should I follow the steps in the "Dynamic DNS for your Pre" or the "Update DNS hostname from Sprint IP" article? Jun 17 01:03:42 yea i wanted to setup a dns for mine too Jun 17 01:10:01 I'm falling the steps to setup SFTP access, and Step #4 says to type "visudo" but when I do, it returns "sh: visudo: not found". Am I missing something? Jun 17 01:10:01 WillJitsu: i used optware to install perl and am using ddclient Jun 17 01:10:20 following* not falling Jun 17 01:10:30 use some other editor Jun 17 01:10:34 vi vim nano etc Jun 17 01:10:44 oh wait, did you install sudo? Jun 17 01:10:52 that is where visudo comes from Jun 17 01:10:57 lol Jun 17 01:11:29 pullingj: hmm probably not. Jun 17 01:12:02 I followed step 12a instead of 12b in the rooting guide Jun 17 01:12:43 is it possible to change that now? Jun 17 01:14:59 Hello, Once i root my palm pre how would i go about changeing the backround for the dial pad Jun 17 01:15:47 Does anyone know how to change the user account password since if it didn't match the first time it says "user in use" Jun 17 01:15:51 sloppyjm, look in /usr/palm/applications Jun 17 01:16:28 sloppyjm: http://predev.wikidot.com/background-editing Jun 17 01:16:34 it said permision denid Jun 17 01:16:37 there is an indepth explanation Jun 17 01:16:46 thank you tilton i will try that Jun 17 01:17:40 I wonder how long until palm introduces a theme's feature Jun 17 01:17:40 XD Jun 17 01:17:48 ?? Jun 17 01:17:49 Is there any other way to do this step if I didn't install sudo? Step 4: Modify the sudoers file to allow your user account to sudo sftp-server without a password: Jun 17 01:18:07 no Will Jun 17 01:18:17 Tilton: hahaha i bet they will when enough people brick their phones Jun 17 01:18:19 Because you need sudo to umm ... sudo Jun 17 01:18:20 >.> Jun 17 01:18:29 Lol sloppyjm Jun 17 01:18:36 Chances are we will make the script first Jun 17 01:18:48 and palm will edit it under gpl and call it a day Jun 17 01:18:49 Lol true that tilton Jun 17 01:19:16 release your code under MIT license or something where they can just take it and run with it Jun 17 01:19:22 unless you care if palm uses your changes Jun 17 01:19:36 Tilton53: well in the guide, I followed Step 12a which said to enable the su command. since I went that route instead of installing sudo, which was Step 12b, can I change it now? Jun 17 01:19:58 link to guide Jun 17 01:20:04 http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 17 01:20:23 so the password didn't match while creating the unprivileged user, how can I delete the user and do it again? Jun 17 01:20:47 yes Will Jun 17 01:20:51 You can enable both Jun 17 01:20:58 just kind of redundent Jun 17 01:21:01 but you can Jun 17 01:21:08 how do i obtain read write privliges (I'm a newfag to unix) Jun 17 01:21:11 Tilton53: ok so just follow step 12b verbatim? Jun 17 01:21:20 yes Jun 17 01:21:40 does anyone know of a way to tell AIM to stop bugging me about being signed on at 2 locations? Jun 17 01:22:08 it seems like the pre is contantly re-signing on, and my home box keeps getting spammed by AIM telling me I signed on somewhere else Jun 17 01:22:20 lol two Jun 17 01:22:26 sign out on your pre for now Jun 17 01:22:37 there is a battery draining bug anyways right now Jun 17 01:22:39 that's not a solution :P Jun 17 01:22:42 oh? Jun 17 01:23:00 I haven't noticed... my battery seems to be running alright... but then again, I'm on wifi just about everywhere... Jun 17 01:23:06 How do i mount read write script plz Jun 17 01:23:22 >.> Jun 17 01:23:25 that sentence doesn't make any sense to me Jun 17 01:23:29 mount -o remount rw / Jun 17 01:23:30 Well first you get another computer sloppyjm Jun 17 01:23:33 errr Jun 17 01:23:37 then you learn linux Jun 17 01:23:37 mount -o remount,rw / Jun 17 01:23:46 hehe, i found this comment in a links.conf: # Hic sunt leones. Jun 17 01:23:48 Does anyone know how to change the user account password since if it didn't match the first time it says "user in use" Jun 17 01:23:54 or you do that what PreGame said Jun 17 01:24:03 and pray you don't brick your phone Jun 17 01:24:05 -.- Jun 17 01:24:24 DSoulja: passwd Jun 17 01:24:30 as root Jun 17 01:24:32 thank you Jun 17 01:24:34 without any < or > Jun 17 01:24:48 if i brick my phone i shutdown the internet to the world Jun 17 01:24:54 jk lmao Jun 17 01:25:02 thanks pregame Jun 17 01:25:19 >.> Jun 17 01:25:43 Palm Pre only linux system were making changes voids your warrenty. Jun 17 01:26:08 thats why u call in and say i lost my phone and they send u another one Jun 17 01:26:24 i did that 3 times with my shit instict Jun 17 01:26:29 >.> Jun 17 01:26:42 Yes and then everybody else's prices go up Jun 17 01:26:43 -.- Jun 17 01:27:05 yough Jun 17 01:27:06 Yeah Srry Sprint Family Jun 17 01:27:24 someone should setup a pre webserver and have it rack up their data charges Jun 17 01:27:27 hehe Jun 17 01:27:28 how hemna Jun 17 01:27:32 get it slashdotted or something Jun 17 01:27:34 hehe Jun 17 01:27:38 -.- jwm Jun 17 01:27:40 first Jun 17 01:27:49 the phone would die in a ball of overheated fire Jun 17 01:27:51 second Jun 17 01:27:53 lol Jun 17 01:28:06 anybody on that same network/tower would get shit recepition Jun 17 01:28:22 hehe Jun 17 01:28:27 that's my evil plan :) Jun 17 01:28:28 because it would basicly be a ddos attack on that protion of the sprint network Jun 17 01:28:31 how do I install nano or pico? Jun 17 01:28:47 Sprint might actually file charges against someone who did that Jun 17 01:28:49 use vim :) Jun 17 01:28:53 amen Jun 17 01:29:03 WillJitsu use "vi" Jun 17 01:29:05 I thought about installing the emacs22 package for about a second Jun 17 01:29:11 lol I'm trying. I'm terrible at vi Jun 17 01:29:18 it's not hard Jun 17 01:29:23 how do you enter edit mode? Jun 17 01:29:35 you can do it several ways Jun 17 01:29:37 most people use i Jun 17 01:29:47 Will Jun 17 01:29:48 this is a really, really blurry picture of what my phone app looks like, but if anyone wants the images, I can zip them up for you. Jun 17 01:29:50 http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/Jwborc39963/SSPX0715.jpg Jun 17 01:29:51 if you have the ipkg-opt installed, you could ipkg-opt install nano Jun 17 01:29:52 "Insert" Jun 17 01:29:55 is edit mode Jun 17 01:29:58 then to exit Jun 17 01:30:03 but then you'd never grow as a person Jun 17 01:30:07 "esc" :wq Jun 17 01:30:09 >.> Jun 17 01:30:14 palmkernel: how did you get access to mojo? Jun 17 01:30:24 neon background Jun 17 01:30:40 your phoneapp or the dialer? Jun 17 01:30:40 hehe Jun 17 01:30:46 haha the dialer Jun 17 01:30:53 mr blurrycam makes another appearance Jun 17 01:31:01 with a darkened background and neon buttons Jun 17 01:31:11 you should have bought two pres so you could have taken a clear photo of the other Jun 17 01:31:16 it was a lot of redundant work so if anyone else wants it I can just zip it up Jun 17 01:31:16 wow jwm Jun 17 01:31:30 can't you do a screenshot? Jun 17 01:31:35 hehe Jun 17 01:31:40 The pre streaming app needs to die in a fire. *Grumbles* Jun 17 01:31:41 hit print screen :) Jun 17 01:31:46 how do you do a screenshot? that would be awesome Jun 17 01:32:13 idk Jun 17 01:32:14 >D Jun 17 01:32:22 palmkernel: orange + sym + p Jun 17 01:32:23 palmkernel: hold down orange, sym and p Jun 17 01:32:41 there we go Jun 17 01:32:41 :D Jun 17 01:32:45 where does the image go to? Jun 17 01:32:51 photo app/roll Jun 17 01:33:16 ahh I see it, gimme a few minutes and I'll upload that Jun 17 01:33:24 FINALLY a phone with built in screenshots Jun 17 01:33:25 -.- Jun 17 01:33:37 anyone know the equiv of touchstart in iphone? Jun 17 01:33:50 or an url to help with webos webkit specifics Jun 17 01:33:51 hehe Jun 17 01:33:58 I cannot get past Step #4 in this guide: http://predev.wikidot.com/sftp-access Jun 17 01:34:04 I keep getting syntax errors when saving the file Jun 17 01:34:10 I'm building an app for the webkit on iphone and want to have it work under pre too Jun 17 01:34:16 WillJitsu did you install Sudo? Jun 17 01:34:31 Tilton53: yep I ran visudo and I'm in the file Jun 17 01:34:32 and then second did you do "mount -o remount,rw / Jun 17 01:34:33 " Jun 17 01:34:33 >.> Jun 17 01:34:36 http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y185/Jwborc39963/phone_2009-16-06_203233.png Jun 17 01:34:43 :o Syntax errors Jun 17 01:34:44 Tilton53: yes I did Jun 17 01:34:49 what are you putting in? Jun 17 01:34:50 >.> Jun 17 01:35:04 willjitsu ALL=(ALL) ALL Jun 17 01:35:16 willjitsu ALL=NOPASSWD: /opt/libexec/sftp-server Jun 17 01:35:21 is that a real username on the device? Jun 17 01:35:22 matrix phone Jun 17 01:35:26 yes that's what I use to login Jun 17 01:35:30 palmkernel: you modifying the phone app directly, or are you trying to build "themes" by changing the global css's? Jun 17 01:35:36 Hey does someone have the Graphic Shell working I'm running into a problem Jun 17 01:36:01 neither, I manually edited the images in usr\palm\applications\com.palm.app.phone\images Jun 17 01:36:04 palmkernel: do you have a wiki account? Jun 17 01:36:08 try adding one line at a time Will Jun 17 01:36:08 nope Jun 17 01:36:10 willjitsu: what are the syntax errors, specifically? Jun 17 01:36:15 palmkernel: want one? Jun 17 01:36:17 sure Jun 17 01:36:21 It doesn't tell you lamontsf Jun 17 01:36:21 Tilton53: am I supposed to add those lines after the very last line that says "ALL=(ALL) ALL"? Jun 17 01:36:22 :/ Jun 17 01:36:33 yes Jun 17 01:36:48 Will add each line one at a time Jun 17 01:37:00 and then figure out which one is causing the issues Jun 17 01:37:08 will, I just do %wheel ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL Jun 17 01:37:08 Wtf... I am connected to my pre via SSH but when I type SSH in console it says SSH is not found Jun 17 01:37:10 also make sure that is the EXACT name you use Jun 17 01:37:22 then add yourself to the wheel group Jun 17 01:37:32 lol jwm Jun 17 01:37:38 >.> Jun 17 01:37:45 Achoo Jun 17 01:37:48 http://memotype.net/images/blue-phone.png Jun 17 01:37:51 ok I just added it and I get this message: >>> /opt/etc/sudoers: syntax error near line 31 <<< Jun 17 01:37:54 You installed an SSH server on the phone Jun 17 01:37:55 Yeah? Jun 17 01:38:00 not an SSH client Jun 17 01:38:19 I thought I did both... Jun 17 01:38:24 Dropbear and OpenSSH in the instructions are the servers Jun 17 01:38:27 Hold on I'm going to feel stupid if I skipped that Jun 17 01:38:30 Ahchoo: you are trying to ssh from your phone to something else Jun 17 01:38:33 ? Jun 17 01:38:38 lol Jun 17 01:38:46 I'm trying to get the Graphic Shell working Jun 17 01:38:47 willjitsu: can you pastebin your sudoers file? Jun 17 01:38:51 Weird here is a hardcoded test url in the streaming player: http://ss.bod.org/mv4tst/Jeremy/Stream/http/SteelyDanBlackCow.mp3 Jun 17 01:38:55 rwhitby, should I just create one myself on the wiki? Jun 17 01:38:57 I wonder if you accidently deleted a # Jun 17 01:38:59 Tilton53: both the dropbear and openssh packages install a server and client Jun 17 01:39:05 lamontsf: I'd be glad to if you tell how :) Jun 17 01:39:07 palmkernel: sure Jun 17 01:39:23 what is the graphic shell? Jun 17 01:39:30 go to http://pastebin.com Jun 17 01:39:39 Could this be a palm employee's personal site? http://ss.bod.org/mv4tst/Jeremy/ Jun 17 01:39:57 Ahchoo: try /opt/bin/ssh Jun 17 01:40:00 cut and paste the file there, then paste me the url it generates Jun 17 01:40:11 then Ahchoo do a "ls /var/opt" Jun 17 01:40:12 http://predev.wikidot.com/shell -> Graphic Shell... Allows you to access a terminal window through the web browser on the phone Jun 17 01:40:16 is there ssh in there? Jun 17 01:40:17 >.> Jun 17 01:40:29 Lol! The comment: "// TODO: take this out before ship" Jun 17 01:40:32 nvm + rwhitby> Ahchoo: try /opt/bin/ssh Jun 17 01:40:41 I did Jun 17 01:40:54 it works Jun 17 01:40:58 lol Jun 17 01:41:00 i tried webshell on the pre, it was barely usable Jun 17 01:41:02 I get a bunch of options Jun 17 01:41:15 lamontsf: http://pastebin.com/m42452371 Jun 17 01:41:20 zsazs> it's not finished Jun 17 01:41:33 well my pre is rebooting lets hope the backround worked hahah Jun 17 01:41:57 willjitsu: delete teh line that says ALL=(ALL) ALL Jun 17 01:42:00 Dude! I think there is code on this site. http://ss.bod.org/mv4tst/ Jun 17 01:42:02 Ahchoo: so... you are logged in to your phone with ssh... but want to run ssh while you are there...? Jun 17 01:42:04 there's not username, and it's sad Jun 17 01:42:12 an app that had webshell in it so keyboard input went directly to the terminal would be the thing to do Jun 17 01:42:14 er, there is no username, and sudo is sad Jun 17 01:42:40 I created an account and sent in an application to join the group Jun 17 01:42:46 Lurking_Grue: holy cow Jun 17 01:42:55 why does it take so long for the pre to load Jun 17 01:42:57 doh Jun 17 01:42:59 root@castle:/var/home/willjitsu# visudo Jun 17 01:42:59 visudo: /opt/etc/sudoers busy, try again later Jun 17 01:43:01 wth is that ALL=(ALL) ALL in there for -.- Jun 17 01:43:05 lmao Jun 17 01:43:15 try again Will Jun 17 01:43:21 same thing Jun 17 01:43:29 my session crashed and I had to reconnect Jun 17 01:43:33 ah Jun 17 01:43:48 how do I kill the other login session? Jun 17 01:43:50 restart the phone Jun 17 01:43:51 >.> Jun 17 01:43:54 eaist way Jun 17 01:44:01 Hemm looks more like streaming test server still wierd they left it in the code ;) Jun 17 01:44:06 or you can do a "ps uax | grep ssh" look for the PID Jun 17 01:44:12 then do a "kill XXXXX" Jun 17 01:44:13 ahh there we go Jun 17 01:44:26 I knew I used to do that back 10 years ago when I ran linux Jun 17 01:44:51 when you ran linux? :( Jun 17 01:44:52 *LOL!* Photos at palm hq. Jun 17 01:44:55 yeah linux doesn't change much Jun 17 01:44:59 >.> Jun 17 01:45:01 Lurking_Grue Jun 17 01:45:02 yeah but my brain has Jun 17 01:45:05 I forgot everything Jun 17 01:45:08 thats the inhouse phone test Jun 17 01:45:43 ls /var/log/hwtest/ted/pics/ Jun 17 01:45:49 those are the fun build test pics Jun 17 01:45:54 also we need an emulator until I can get my own pre Jun 17 01:45:55 :/ Jun 17 01:46:04 I am running off my own linux knowledge Jun 17 01:46:15 is there a way tpo turn the ding ding when you charge on the touchstone off Jun 17 01:46:16 I believe the SDK has an emulator Jun 17 01:46:25 Tilton53: want to login to mine and fix it for me? :) Jun 17 01:46:26 yeah well no-one has the SDK Jun 17 01:46:31 without an NPA Jun 17 01:46:35 NDA* Jun 17 01:46:38 lol Will Jun 17 01:46:42 what did you break? Jun 17 01:46:42 >D Jun 17 01:46:52 what could have dreadchicken's pre have done today? http://pl.g3is.net (pl == preload) Jun 17 01:46:56 Funny thing of the day, my wife's online class on digital education methods is using Freeware and OpenSource as synonyms Jun 17 01:46:56 nothing yet I don't think. but it's taking me forever to follow these stupid guides Jun 17 01:47:15 dreadchicken that's nice Jun 17 01:47:32 the guides are very rough in some spots Will Jun 17 01:47:37 dreadchicken: velocity=0, not much :-) Jun 17 01:47:52 rwhitby, indeed :/ Jun 17 01:48:07 hey will i spent like 8 hours rooting haha Jun 17 01:48:07 lol Jun 17 01:48:14 my velocity is broken, i'm not picking it up or it's not reporting...either way, i'm not moving :( Jun 17 01:48:28 sloppyjm: yeah I ran into a few bumps during that process but that went pretty quickly for me Jun 17 01:48:50 rwhitby: you around ? Jun 17 01:49:09 I think my problem is when the guides give me options like "choose a or b" then another guide down the line is written by someone who chose the opposite option :) Jun 17 01:49:26 dread pastebin the script you used too write that page Jun 17 01:49:29 Will: yeah haha i just got my phone on sunday Jun 17 01:49:31 bpadalino: whassup? Jun 17 01:49:51 rwhitby: i want to use palm's libraries that are loaded on the pre .. and cross compile and link against them .. Jun 17 01:49:56 WillJitsu: please point those things out specifically so they can be fixed. Jun 17 01:49:59 i have a dbus-example.c file .. all headers required .. Jun 17 01:50:05 i have their dbus.so file .. Jun 17 01:50:15 rwhitby: be glad to. is there a place to do that? Jun 17 01:50:18 lol rwhitby the "su vs sudo" is killing most people Jun 17 01:50:20 but just passing -L../usr/lib doesn't help it find -ldbus-1 Jun 17 01:50:22 any ideas ? Jun 17 01:50:36 rwhitby, should we just drop dropbear and go openssh? Jun 17 01:50:55 ONce I root my pre and then i reboot do i need ot reroot? Jun 17 01:50:59 dread a lot of people prefer openssh Jun 17 01:51:00 hmm... trying to install python I get: ipkg_download: ERROR: Command failed with return value 1: get --passive-ftp -q -P /opt/ipkg-temWM2 http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/libstdc++_6.0.9-6_arm.ipk' Jun 17 01:51:31 Lurking_Grue: what were you complaining about in the pre streaming app before? Jun 17 01:51:34 j/w Jun 17 01:51:38 Tilton: IF i reboot my pre will i have to reroot? Jun 17 01:51:45 no -.- Jun 17 01:51:57 It's a computer it remembers files between restarts Jun 17 01:51:57 Weird i cant get in now via telnet putty.exe Jun 17 01:51:58 bpadalino: dunno Jun 17 01:52:10 otherwise palm would have made the biggest piece of shit ever Jun 17 01:52:20 dreadchicken: I'm starting to think we should simplify to openssh and sudo. Jun 17 01:52:36 "The Palm Pre, restart and lose all your contacts, but it runs linux so it's ok" Jun 17 01:52:37 XD Jun 17 01:52:42 Tilton: So why is it not working when i telnet to it Jun 17 01:52:53 wait hold on Jun 17 01:52:58 first telnet =! ssh Jun 17 01:53:21 Tilton53: you lost your contacts on restart? i lost my contact linkings on a partial reset... Jun 17 01:53:33 no konsoleX I don't own a pre yet Jun 17 01:53:34 >.> Jun 17 01:53:45 He jsut asked if he would have to reroot when he restarted Jun 17 01:53:52 rwhitby, i have to agree. Jun 17 01:54:05 it be the equiv of your computer erasing it's self when you restart Jun 17 01:54:05 hemna: you back around? I just came back from lunch and doing things. How's your cam/server thing going? Jun 17 01:54:07 Tilton: i cant login now Jun 17 01:54:10 when Palm issues the next update, will I need to redo all of the changes I'm making by following these guides or will they stay intact? Jun 17 01:54:15 yah I'm here Jun 17 01:54:17 rwhitby and dreadchicken good idea Jun 17 01:54:17 yay... ipkg has vim! :) Jun 17 01:54:29 god I love this phone :) Jun 17 01:54:36 hacking the dhcp scripts for wifi, so I can get my dyndns to update w/ the wifi addy Jun 17 01:54:38 * twobitsprite swoons Jun 17 01:54:42 WillJitsu the hope is anything in /var/opt is fine Jun 17 01:54:46 but there is always a chance Jun 17 01:54:50 the phone is new too Jun 17 01:54:59 twobitsprite, it's not a phone...it's a linux box. Jun 17 01:55:05 so Palm might add a lot of the features we are adding Jun 17 01:55:11 with a CDMA modem :) Jun 17 01:55:20 hemna: ah, ok. I'm gonna start playing with gstreamer again in a few min. I'll let you know if I get anywhere Jun 17 01:55:21 or activiating a lot of the ones we have found Jun 17 01:55:24 WillJitsu: the front page of the wiki answers your question Jun 17 01:55:28 ..and other cool toys stuck on the side. Jun 17 01:55:30 ok cool, I'll be here Jun 17 01:55:33 OK has annybody need to rerun the talk.py after they reboot Jun 17 01:55:46 to be able to get back into the root Jun 17 01:55:51 "At the very least, you should be prepared to lose all data on your phone at any time." Jun 17 01:55:57 sloppyjm: yes... that's a good thing Jun 17 01:56:04 if you want to log in again, use ssh Jun 17 01:56:16 ok il try that Jun 17 01:56:18 you don't want telnet running with wide-open access all the time Jun 17 01:56:27 rwhitby, qft Jun 17 01:56:40 sloppyjm: http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 17 01:57:16 Work in progress: http://predev.wikidot.com/pager Jun 17 01:57:24 well shoot i just screwed myself when i rebooted my phone Jun 17 01:57:26 sloppyjm make sure you installed ssh to /var/opt Jun 17 01:57:42 will the webkit on pre have webview? Jun 17 01:57:45 sloppyjm you can always recover with webdoctorOS and startover if needed Jun 17 01:57:55 that's the great thing about this 'phone' Jun 17 01:58:21 since we are not flashing changes over we can't really brick the phone hopefully Jun 17 01:58:27 Anyone know what/when checks the MD5 sum files located in /usr/lib/ipkg/info/? Jun 17 01:58:28 true but im not on an xp computer annymore Jun 17 01:58:40 lol Jun 17 01:58:44 FUCK WINDOWS 7 Jun 17 01:58:47 ahah Jun 17 01:59:01 nice... got sftp working finally Jun 17 01:59:09 pEEf, rwhitby will know...i would suspect before processing it? Jun 17 01:59:32 hahaha Jun 17 01:59:37 they have mp3 downloads up :P Jun 17 01:59:46 Well time to instal xp will b back in a few days :) tom i will be busy Jun 17 01:59:51 Well, I haven't updated those and everything still works, including a total restore using the webosdoctor Jun 17 01:59:53 pEEf: ipkg checks those Jun 17 02:00:07 when? Jun 17 02:00:14 is "halt -r" a safe way to restart the pre, or should I keep using the power button? Jun 17 02:00:30 sloppyjm get some beer and go visit a freind Jun 17 02:00:32 XD Jun 17 02:00:32 reboot Jun 17 02:00:51 twobitsprite I would use the power button Jun 17 02:00:53 rwhitby, when does it do that? Jun 17 02:00:55 ahahah no beer i think il get me a eighth Jun 17 02:01:00 er... you mean "sudo /sbin/reboot"? Jun 17 02:01:06 I've used reboot many times with no problems Jun 17 02:01:10 halt -r should be very similar. Jun 17 02:01:33 i'm old: "sync; sync; sync; reboot" some of you might catch that. Jun 17 02:01:35 btw... what does busybox use for a startup script instead of ~/.bashrc? Jun 17 02:01:41 Tilton: thank you for your help Everyone else : thanks Jun 17 02:01:46 dreadchicken: yep, I remember that Jun 17 02:01:56 also just killing luna Jun 17 02:01:57 lol dread Jun 17 02:02:12 people still use that? Jun 17 02:02:13 twobitsprite: ~/.profile Jun 17 02:03:10 in this guide: http://predev.wikidot.com/use-the-pre-as-wireless-storage-device, step #3 shows "uid1001,utf8,shortnamemixed" but in the file there is an '=" between "shortname" and "mixed". is that just a typo or am I supposed to remove the '='? Jun 17 02:03:16 is there anyway to turn off the sound ding ding when docking on the touchstone Jun 17 02:04:01 will I would leave Jun 17 02:04:03 >.> Jun 17 02:04:09 If it works tell us Jun 17 02:04:14 and we can edit the wiki Jun 17 02:04:22 huh... ssh is telling me my localhost is not in the trusted host file Jun 17 02:04:32 joesmith: it shouldn't be too hard to find what calls it and comment it out Jun 17 02:04:58 lol Ahchoo Jun 17 02:05:03 WillJitsu: logging in to fix right now, nice catch. Jun 17 02:05:40 now all we need to do is port an irc client to the pre-processor Jun 17 02:05:41 <.< Jun 17 02:06:08 Tilton53: there are irc clients available via optware Jun 17 02:06:59 Tilton53: unfortunately nothing that runs smoothly in a card, that i know of... yet. Jun 17 02:07:03 :/ Jun 17 02:07:13 Yeah the main hitch right now is making stuff run in cards Jun 17 02:07:17 from the command line Jun 17 02:07:30 I applied to join the wiki editing team btw Jun 17 02:07:31 :3 Jun 17 02:07:42 O.o Jun 17 02:07:43 Join! Jun 17 02:07:43 You can not apply. Jun 17 02:07:43 It seems you have already applied for membership. Jun 17 02:07:54 ok odd Jun 17 02:08:14 webos-shell in webkit/luna is okay for running some basic commands but i wouldnt' recommend it for irc Jun 17 02:09:21 Wait until the SDK becomes public Jun 17 02:09:27 <|Jason8|> WHy wait? Jun 17 02:09:29 <|Jason8|> that'd be lame Jun 17 02:09:30 We will see a lot more intergration and ports Jun 17 02:09:31 >.> Jun 17 02:09:41 directly into the luna/webkit Jun 17 02:10:00 Because Jason we are kind of running in the dark on Luna right nwo Jun 17 02:10:01 now* Jun 17 02:10:10 <|Jason8|> ffff Jun 17 02:10:16 <|Jason8|> reverse engineer! Jun 17 02:10:18 <|Jason8|> :P Jun 17 02:10:48 "Palm copyrighted code is may NOT be posted here OR in the IRC channel. You have been warned, and from this and all points may be kicked and/or banned." Jun 17 02:11:08 has anyone posted instructions for the cross-compile environment for osx/arm? Jun 17 02:11:20 <|Jason8|> oh fine Jun 17 02:11:35 Tilton53: you can write code against an API without posting the API. Jun 17 02:12:00 has anybody had any issue after removing sprint tv and/or the sprint portal apps? Jun 17 02:12:09 Yes rwhitby but most people aren't going to be able to stop from posting palm code once they start revesring it Jun 17 02:12:10 :/ Jun 17 02:12:22 at least right now while they are trying to figure out the backend Jun 17 02:12:34 Tilton53: they won't be doing it here, but they are welcome to post the code to their apps here that uses that API Jun 17 02:12:48 konsoleX: http://predev.wikidot.com/cross-compiling Jun 17 02:13:14 Do we have any idea of a timeframe for the next OTA opdate? Jun 17 02:13:16 we do not discourage investigation, we only discourage distribution that does not comply with copyright law Jun 17 02:13:27 anyone know if webview will be in webkit for webos? Jun 17 02:14:04 zinge proberly when palm feels like it Jun 17 02:14:16 they have been releasing updates every few days Jun 17 02:14:21 so I would say very soon Jun 17 02:14:37 Just asking, because there's a blurb about an iTunes support page that hints at the next version of iTunes possibly breaking support for third party hardware. Since Palm is using that as a selling point, I figure an iTunes update that breaks Media Sync support would force an OTA update to fix it :-) Jun 17 02:14:57 hehe Jun 17 02:14:59 i despise itunes, so no huge loss to me (personally) Jun 17 02:15:08 I wonder what is going through apple's heads :) Jun 17 02:15:10 Well Palm is on shakey ground with that to begin with Jun 17 02:15:17 they basic said "Screw You Apple" Jun 17 02:15:19 >D Jun 17 02:16:02 that's just dramatic journalism. apple has a disclaimer about unsupported devices and why shouldn't they? we won't know if they are planning to be dicks until they act like one Jun 17 02:16:06 i think the gist of it was that iTunes would have to check for a valid serial for each device. i personally could see that having some false positives and irking customers. Jun 17 02:16:06 I don't think they are going to bother Jun 17 02:16:34 konsoleX think of windows activation Jun 17 02:16:35 XD Jun 17 02:18:06 Tilton53: i can only think of it in a sad way... valid apple iProduct users getting grief on behalf of their dictator. Jun 17 02:18:19 lol Jun 17 02:18:29 i don't see apple checking serials Jun 17 02:18:37 wooo!!!! Jun 17 02:18:37 (ok, probably only exciting to me) Jun 17 02:18:37 I got gstreamer to play an mp3 Jun 17 02:18:38 I mean think of it this way Jun 17 02:18:47 are there any ways to change the touchstone options Jun 17 02:18:50 It's only a minor inconvenience, anyway. There are plenty of 3rd-party solutions that allow you to sync other devices with your iTunes library. Jun 17 02:18:50 finally Jun 17 02:18:50 >.> You have to online to sync your ip? Jun 17 02:19:00 ipod* Jun 17 02:19:02 sound, dimmer etc Jun 17 02:19:22 joesmith this isn't a touchstone channel Jun 17 02:19:23 o.o Jun 17 02:19:27 whoa Jun 17 02:19:27 this is a pre-channel Jun 17 02:19:44 it's a webos channel Jun 17 02:19:55 Tilton53: um, perhaps let the ops make the decisions about what is on-topic thanks Jun 17 02:19:58 >.> Jun 17 02:20:00 its a webos hacking channel Jun 17 02:20:09 webos is at #webos Jun 17 02:20:16 touchstone is at #touchstone Jun 17 02:20:25 and whatever! Jun 17 02:20:30 are tou serious? Jun 17 02:20:35 XD Jun 17 02:20:36 <.< Jun 17 02:20:40 there is a ts channel? Jun 17 02:20:42 #monkeys is where you will find the banananananas Jun 17 02:20:46 totally Jun 17 02:20:52 right........... Jun 17 02:21:13 Joesmith it's in a script somewhere Jun 17 02:21:18 in webos Jun 17 02:21:18 has anyone erased the device on the palm website? Jun 17 02:21:19 >.> Jun 17 02:21:22 Discussion about the internals of webos that have to do with how it behaves when on touchstone are on-topic. Jun 17 02:21:35 analog1|work I heard that bricks the phone Jun 17 02:21:35 analog1|work: i think i know what you mean.... yes. Jun 17 02:21:49 Tilton53: where did you hear that? Jun 17 02:21:50 yes thanks rwhitby Jun 17 02:22:01 Tilton53: i used it and it worked Jun 17 02:22:05 It was a new article Jun 17 02:22:08 news* Jun 17 02:22:12 idk remember Jun 17 02:22:17 nebula1, you erased the device on the palm profile website? Jun 17 02:22:29 this ^ Jun 17 02:22:37 analog1|work: no i used the utility at http://www.palm.com/rom Jun 17 02:22:43 :o Jun 17 02:22:52 ohhhhh Jun 17 02:22:53 yeah the profile website is supposed to brick the phone Jun 17 02:22:57 i know what you mean Jun 17 02:23:02 yes i read that article too Jun 17 02:23:12 not too sure Jun 17 02:23:16 yeah that's the last ditch, my phone got stolen effort Jun 17 02:23:17 >D Jun 17 02:23:30 Well nebula1 the problem I don't too many people are willing to try it Jun 17 02:23:56 yeah no thanks Jun 17 02:24:33 i heard remote wipe took forever, but that you just had to be super patient... Jun 17 02:24:42 thanks for the help everyone. I'm gonna head out for a bit. Jun 17 02:25:27 is there any harm in leaving developer mode on forever? Jun 17 02:26:21 your pre will begin to form anxiety about being out in public Jun 17 02:26:40 well I don't want that Jun 17 02:26:46 yeah Jun 17 02:26:52 mrjcarter: my windows box wants to install driver software for OMAP3430 periodically... Jun 17 02:28:06 what the hell, I'll just turn it off... Jun 17 02:28:23 also if you guys didn't get it, i was jokin. offtopic is alright as long as it doesn't run too rampant when there are other people discussin hacky things or you guys trying to help each other out Jun 17 02:28:23 oh man i killed the channel Jun 17 02:28:29 Note for tmzt: I got gstreamer working and playing mp3s Jun 17 02:29:09 greetings all. picked up the pre this evening. attempting rooting, but I'm running Win7 RC1 64-bit. any known issues there? having some trouble. Jun 17 02:29:14 yes ShinAli it's all your fault :< Jun 17 02:29:24 Lars get Xp Jun 17 02:29:26 XP* Jun 17 02:29:27 >.> Jun 17 02:29:28 It's the dreaded Errno 10061 Jun 17 02:29:32 or vista. anything but linux or win7 Jun 17 02:29:36 Yeah, figured I'd fire up an XP VM next. Jun 17 02:29:41 that will work Jun 17 02:29:51 Just curious though if anyone knows what's blocking this from working. Jun 17 02:31:29 has anybody done the "drag menus" mod? after reading about the major bugs, I'm confused as to if it works or not Jun 17 02:32:38 mrjcarter, I've done the drag menus tweak Jun 17 02:32:49 working fine? Jun 17 02:32:53 * jblebrun has finally whipped his macports into submission Jun 17 02:33:43 mrjcarter, I haven't had a problem with it Jun 17 02:34:07 psykoz, ok thanks Jun 17 02:35:36 Has anyone done any timing on the usb bus speed? First sync with iTunes, and it seemed slower compared to my Touch; granted, it was syncing my whole podcast collection... Jun 17 02:35:53 the flash in this thing is not very fast at all Jun 17 02:36:23 that would certainly explain it. Jun 17 02:36:26 hemna, dreadchicken, oc80z: Any chance you guys can settle on the one true dynamic DNS wiki page? Jun 17 02:36:59 http://predev.wikidot.com/dynamic-dns-client, http://predev.wikidot.com/ddns-update, http://predev.wikidot.com/update-dns-hostname-from-sprint-ip Jun 17 02:37:26 rwhitby, I vote redirect them all to /losers Jun 17 02:37:26 All three do the same thing. Let's work out which is best and deprecate the other two. Jun 17 02:37:29 jk ;) Jun 17 02:37:33 heh yah Jun 17 02:37:34 no matter to me, i think we worked on them at about the same time. who wants the merge? Jun 17 02:37:54 I'm also working on the scripts to do the same thing for eth0 Jun 17 02:38:27 how do you conduct a search using vi? I'm looking for the term "appmenu" Jun 17 02:38:27 I don't care which page ends up being the one left over Jun 17 02:38:33 mrjcarter, / Jun 17 02:38:35 /foo Jun 17 02:38:38 searches for foo Jun 17 02:38:41 i've tried /\ Jun 17 02:38:42 hit . Jun 17 02:38:47 err hit / again to continue Jun 17 02:38:52 mrjcarter, just do a /appmenu ;) that'll be fine Jun 17 02:38:57 hemna, thanks for volunteering! we all appreciate it. make a good choice :) Jun 17 02:38:59 thanks Jun 17 02:39:14 I heard that inadyn was less resource intensive than ez-ipupdate - is that correct? Jun 17 02:39:28 i do not know, no tests here. Jun 17 02:39:43 let's get some solid data for the comparison if we can Jun 17 02:40:14 ez-ipupdate is 600k during the ip change so I somewhat discounted looking farther. 600k for 1sec every 30min seems negligible. Jun 17 02:40:19 >.> Lol this is like watching the ubuntu team try and figure what packages to include in apt-get Jun 17 02:40:20 >D Jun 17 02:40:29 Do all of the solutions require installing Perl? Jun 17 02:41:24 good question Jun 17 02:41:56 jblebrun, only ddclient iirc. ez-ipupdate is standalone and i suspect inydyn(sp) is as well. Jun 17 02:42:03 can you boot the pre in a "safe mode" ? Jun 17 02:42:14 just hold down F8. Jun 17 02:42:28 hehe Jun 17 02:42:36 If they both work equally well, pick the one with the smaller footprint... Jun 17 02:42:41 Including deps Jun 17 02:42:58 (If there are any) Jun 17 02:43:08 yeah, with run-time memory more important than flash space if there is a tie. Jun 17 02:44:32 does ez-ipudate support more services rwhitby ? Jun 17 02:44:34 Wow, it's windy in Redwood City. I've never seen it like this. Jun 17 02:44:49 * rwhitby only cares about zoneedit :-) Jun 17 02:44:57 still Jun 17 02:45:06 that's why others make the decision, not me :-) Jun 17 02:45:21 dreadchicken ? Jun 17 02:45:30 jblebrun: heh, no wind up here (Emerald Hills) Jun 17 02:45:46 pocek: you around? Jun 17 02:46:02 they both support a lot of services, see the wiki and/or project page. Jun 17 02:46:17 anyone know how to get decodebin2 to show what codecs its using besides running gst-launch with a -v and sifting through things? Jun 17 02:46:41 i suggest we nominate hemna since he is not here and his wiki entry is clearly wrong anyways (no cache file checked). Jun 17 02:47:15 ^ not being here is the major qualifier. Jun 17 02:48:14 lol Jun 17 02:48:35 hey dreadchicken what's the script you are using for that pre-webpage? Jun 17 02:49:08 psykoz, ok so I got the white status bar... Jun 17 02:49:38 rooted via WinXP. Thanks for the advice. Jun 17 02:49:43 mrjcarter, did you make a backup of your file before you modified it? Jun 17 02:50:04 ultraBlack: as you're going through the wiki (thanks for all that, BTW), please point out any other duplicates ... Jun 17 02:50:08 psykoz, nah... figured it was just two lines I can just go back and delete Jun 17 02:50:14 rwhitby and optware in the news! (p2) http://www.cio.com/article/495129/Hackers_Dissect_Palm_Pre_WebOS Jun 17 02:50:16 mrjcarter, you should always cp filename.extension filename.extension.bak any file before you start modifying it ;) but yeah delete them Jun 17 02:50:40 mrjcarter, you need to do two things, a) expand your terminal far enough that you can see the full lines of the original two (vi on the palm doesn't word wrap) Jun 17 02:50:48 psykoz, yeah I'll probably do that for now on Jun 17 02:51:04 mrjcarter, then paste them into another app, remove all preceeding whitespace (tabs/spaces) up until the text Jun 17 02:51:25 modify the line, then paste below as suggested, then manually tab them into the standard code style Jun 17 02:51:25 psykoz, alright I'll try that Jun 17 02:52:07 linux is so fast on the pre Jun 17 02:52:36 Tilton53, http://pastebin.ca/1462911 i cron it every 15 minutes, anyone can run it and just send me your hash and name you want. Jun 17 02:53:23 nice Jun 17 02:54:13 re: inadyn vs ddclient I'd suggest ddclient, as there doesn't seem to be any way to get inadyn to use the ip address of a specific network interface - it always uses the response of a checkip server, which is unhelpful if like many people you are behind a firewall or on a private network. Jun 17 02:55:41 djbclark: good point Jun 17 02:55:43 You guys prefer su or sudo? Jun 17 02:55:57 sudo here, since Ubuntu has already taught people about it. Jun 17 02:56:02 dreadchicken > http://www.g3is.net/ not a real website? Jun 17 02:56:04 (so we don't need to) Jun 17 02:56:13 sudo is better Jun 17 02:56:17 sudo is the new black. Jun 17 02:56:25 Run one command at a time as root Jun 17 02:56:30 I was wondering as sudo was the "b" method in the wiki. Jun 17 02:56:36 noobs are less likely to fuck up there device Jun 17 02:56:40 lars47: I think that's gonna change Jun 17 02:56:41 when i pipe into &1 what does that mean? Jun 17 02:56:42 their* Jun 17 02:56:51 To me su is easier and sudo is safer... sudo gives you a few seconds to rethink your action... Jun 17 02:56:59 there's always sudo su Jun 17 02:57:00 rwhitby can we please make sudo and openssh the standard Jun 17 02:57:01 lars47: I just set up both in case one breaks :) Jun 17 02:57:01 >D Jun 17 02:57:04 Hmm Jun 17 02:57:07 openssh? Jun 17 02:57:11 darn,just did dropbear. Jun 17 02:57:28 Tilton53: sudo I'm sold on, I'm waiting for hard data on dropbear vs openssh resource usage Jun 17 02:57:30 seems lightweight dropbear would be preferred. Jun 17 02:57:43 what features are you missing with openssh? Jun 17 02:57:44 I wonder if we can get fail2ban or a smillar script onto the pre Jun 17 02:57:45 does anyone know how much memory an empty card takes? Jun 17 02:57:45 >D Jun 17 02:57:56 Since everybody is running ssh now Jun 17 02:57:57 o.o Jun 17 02:57:58 Tilton53, no. http://pl.g3is.net Jun 17 02:58:04 :/ Jun 17 02:58:15 pl == preload Jun 17 02:58:21 dread is that a server you own or like a dyndns thing? Jun 17 02:58:23 >.> Jun 17 02:58:25 ohh, i see, merge stderr into std out Jun 17 02:58:35 remember that the more memory the ssh daemon takes up, the less application cards you'll be able to open at the same time Jun 17 02:58:46 good point rwhitby Jun 17 02:58:57 Tilton53: IMHO fwknop would also be useful for stealth / anti-cracking. Jun 17 02:59:18 I was just saying a program smillar too it Jun 17 02:59:19 >D Jun 17 02:59:29 fail2ban is kind of intensive for a pre Jun 17 02:59:30 >.> Jun 17 02:59:31 My pre crashed for the first time since I got it Jun 17 02:59:36 lol stik Jun 17 02:59:45 I have a feel that will start to happen more often Jun 17 02:59:51 though linux is pretty robust Jun 17 02:59:51 suprised it lasted this long **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 17 02:59:57 2009