**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 17 02:59:57 2009 Jun 17 03:00:12 I finally had to reboot my old wrt54g after over 460 days of continous operation Jun 17 03:01:12 People in yahoo didn't believe me when I told them I was chatting at them with zinc on my pre lol Jun 17 03:01:34 hmm. so basically you could port forward through the pre and use it as a proxy, couldn't you? Jun 17 03:01:49 dreadchicken, rwhitby lars47 http://hostingfu.com/article/use-dropbear-ssh-to-save-memory Jun 17 03:01:49 rockstar. Jun 17 03:01:54 Lars Jun 17 03:02:01 psykoz, thanks that fixed it Jun 17 03:02:02 no tethering talk is allowed in here Jun 17 03:02:03 >.> Jun 17 03:02:16 yessir. I said "could." I would never do that, of course. Jun 17 03:02:24 * lars47 casts eyes down at shoes. Jun 17 03:03:51 mrjcarter, np Jun 17 03:04:22 does anyone have a hello world template yet? Jun 17 03:05:38 opie-x there was something on the wiki Jun 17 03:05:41 did EvanPro_ write one up? Jun 17 03:05:42 let me see if I can find it Jun 17 03:06:42 It was there :/ Jun 17 03:06:47 I swear I saw it Jun 17 03:06:54 i can't find one Jun 17 03:07:15 zomg palm has haxored the pre wiki! Jun 17 03:07:18 and deleted vital infoz Jun 17 03:07:21 doh! Jun 17 03:07:31 what Jun 17 03:08:02 Can I just say that after issuing "reboot" to my phone ... that's just cool? Jun 17 03:08:28 I am really easily impressed. Jun 17 03:08:33 me too Jun 17 03:08:33 I am a little confused about the script to enable SSH on all interfaces. Can someone help me? Jun 17 03:08:44 lars47, it's not a phone...it's a linux box with shiny things attached to it. Jun 17 03:08:44 when i do sudo stop LunaSysMgr Jun 17 03:08:46 i love that Jun 17 03:08:59 lars47: android was even cooler in their early builds. "reboot" in a text message would reboot it. Jun 17 03:09:09 yeah, heard about that one. oopsie. Jun 17 03:09:31 Everything Google is "beta", so what do you expect? Jun 17 03:09:34 invisible terminal! Jun 17 03:09:39 it's a feature not a bug. Jun 17 03:10:23 What enables the telnet-ability? The python script? I assume telnet goes bye-bye when you disconnect? Jun 17 03:10:48 it goes away when you reboot or kill telnetd Jun 17 03:10:51 lars47: ghetty Jun 17 03:10:54 I am a little confused about the script to enable SSH on all interfaces. Can someone help me? Jun 17 03:11:03 which script? Jun 17 03:11:09 the init script Jun 17 03:11:14 webos-sshenabler? Jun 17 03:11:20 jwm rawdr thx. Jun 17 03:11:24 the cat optware-dropbear Jun 17 03:11:44 the upstart init script Jun 17 03:11:52 just remove the firewall rules for eth0 only Jun 17 03:11:55 -i eth0 Jun 17 03:11:56 remove that Jun 17 03:12:18 that's the part I don't understand how to do Jun 17 03:12:20 it is in there twice remove from both lines Jun 17 03:12:32 you just remove that? Jun 17 03:12:37 that text Jun 17 03:12:37 you have to use vi Jun 17 03:12:38 if you don't know how to use vi, install the package nano Jun 17 03:12:39 nothing else Jun 17 03:12:44 rawdr: we changed the name, just to confuse you :-) Jun 17 03:12:48 nano is a "normal" text editor Jun 17 03:12:50 just move the cursor before the -i Jun 17 03:12:55 and press x Jun 17 03:13:02 a few times Jun 17 03:13:17 ok, let me try that, so just edit the iptables with nano Jun 17 03:13:25 heh Jun 17 03:13:54 do yourself a favor if you use nano, and use the -w argument to prevent it from wrapping long lines when you edit them Jun 17 03:14:03 nano -w file_to_edit Jun 17 03:14:35 thx for the help all. nite. Jun 17 03:14:50 rwhitby http://hostingfu.com/article/use-dropbear-ssh-to-save-memory Jun 17 03:14:58 we should make dropbear the standard Jun 17 03:15:49 ok I tried with vi and it was a bunch of jiberish Jun 17 03:16:37 the script was jiberish when you opened it? Jun 17 03:16:42 DUDE why can't anybody figure out to use vi Jun 17 03:16:44 -.- Jun 17 03:16:47 it's not that hard Jun 17 03:16:48 :/ Jun 17 03:16:57 anyone know how to adjust the alsa mixer volumes? Jun 17 03:16:59 not hard, just anything but intuitive. takes time Jun 17 03:17:27 yeah, I went to the directory and said vi iptables Jun 17 03:17:43 vi on a binary file won't look too good Jun 17 03:17:43 no, I think you want to say 'vi optware-dropbear' or whatever the script is Jun 17 03:17:57 oooo Jun 17 03:18:05 lol Jun 17 03:18:14 iptables is a standalone program Jun 17 03:18:15 >D Jun 17 03:18:41 I got it now! Much better Jun 17 03:19:31 vi = devil Jun 17 03:19:38 bpadalino: whats the significance of that line you modified when configuring macports for gnu arm utils? Jun 17 03:19:48 cause vi sucks Jun 17 03:19:58 so yeah, anyone seen that hellow world app? Jun 17 03:19:59 it will include the appropriate header files so the iconv symbols can be found Jun 17 03:20:04 don't make me use my ops to punt the vi haters. Jun 17 03:20:12 shinali, btw - those are crappy instructions .. the package installed gcc 3.4.4 Jun 17 03:20:18 vi vi pooey Jun 17 03:20:20 you will recognize your master. Jun 17 03:20:22 which is not EABI compatible with the libs on the pre Jun 17 03:20:28 anyway to bypass the "warning" when connect your device in usb mode? Jun 17 03:20:39 oh dang Jun 17 03:20:42 /opt/local/lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/3.4.4/../../../../arm-none-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: ERROR: Source object ../usr/lib/libdbus-1.so has EABI version 5, but target dbus-example has EABI version 4 Jun 17 03:20:42 /opt/local/lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/3.4.4/../../../../arm-none-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: failed to merge target specific data of file ../usr/lib/libdbus-1.so Jun 17 03:20:47 thanks, it worked and I edited it fine with vi Jun 17 03:21:00 whats the right version? Jun 17 03:21:04 i am trying arm-elf-gcc which is gcc4 Jun 17 03:21:59 rawdr, do I need to restart the optware-dropbear now since it was already running? Or what Jun 17 03:27:23 wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QTeXVTomto Jun 17 03:27:30 turning the LED on and off Jun 17 03:27:57 is rwhitby still here? Jun 17 03:28:23 yep Jun 17 03:28:31 I want to put a webserver on my pre Jun 17 03:28:32 hehe Jun 17 03:28:53 with evdo does your ip change that often? Jun 17 03:29:12 I could setup a cron script and use dyndns hehe Jun 17 03:29:32 tmzt: whassup? Jun 17 03:29:34 oh, is LD_LIBRARY_PATH set correctly? Jun 17 03:30:02 rwhitby: I thought they were mixing ipkg feeds Jun 17 03:30:03 tmzt: optware executables are all built with -rpath Jun 17 03:30:09 oh Jun 17 03:30:24 unless someones already done it... Jun 17 03:30:37 i'd like to figure out how to increase the a2dp audio quality Jun 17 03:30:37 tmzt: (or at least are meant to be - are you seeing something different?) Jun 17 03:30:47 the quality fo the a2dp is poor ? Jun 17 03:30:50 speaking of a2dp Jun 17 03:31:01 what headphones do people recommend Jun 17 03:31:03 how do I mount this from ssh via wifi error(mount: permission denied. (are you root?) ) Jun 17 03:31:09 I was looking at the motorokr hd Jun 17 03:31:14 tmzt: I got the test src and mp3's playing through gstreamer, finally Jun 17 03:31:27 Also just got the mic to play through as a src Jun 17 03:31:29 collzx did you install su or sudo? Jun 17 03:31:29 streaming mp3's? Jun 17 03:31:35 not streaming yet Jun 17 03:31:43 Titon53 no, how do I do that? Jun 17 03:31:56 :/ Jun 17 03:31:58 it would be nice to add a "record" button to the phone dialpad while in a conversation ... Jun 17 03:32:00 I don't have any bluetooth headset yet Jun 17 03:32:16 collzx you followed the ssh toturial to the letter? Jun 17 03:32:28 I missed step 12a Jun 17 03:32:42 I had the motorokr s9 set and one side quit working in 3mo. :| Jun 17 03:32:43 yeah a2dp is a bit on the poor side but isn't as bad as some Jun 17 03:33:00 collzx: time to start again then Jun 17 03:33:03 i'm more concerned with the pitch drift than the quality though Jun 17 03:33:09 which one has the best battery life? hehe Jun 17 03:33:21 not that it matters with the pre Jun 17 03:33:22 heh Jun 17 03:33:27 hah Jun 17 03:33:44 collzx you need to login as root Jun 17 03:33:57 and when you do the ssh toturial do 12b Jun 17 03:33:59 >.> Jun 17 03:34:03 i noticed today the pre's battery doesn't go down more than ~10% in 8 hours if i let it sit there and don't play with it all day long Jun 17 03:34:03 bpadalino: when/if we can trigger command line from luna, I could probably set that up Jun 17 03:34:03 heh Jun 17 03:34:03 then you do sudo commands Jun 17 03:34:04 :/ Jun 17 03:34:26 zinge, interesting - how would you do it from the commandline ? Jun 17 03:34:36 ok thanks, installing it now Jun 17 03:34:43 if you didn't do ethier of the 12) options then you can't do any root commands unless you login directly as 'root' Jun 17 03:34:48 mux the output to the speaker with the input of the mic, cat it over to another device then mp3 encode it ? Jun 17 03:35:09 bpadalino: I think what drains it the worst is actually being on the phone Jun 17 03:35:24 jwm, yeah - communicating with the towers is going to be killer .. Jun 17 03:35:32 plus the other radios being on probably doesn't help Jun 17 03:35:38 they even recommend to use wifi instead of evdo Jun 17 03:35:43 what plan can I get with the pre? Sprint.com wont let me choose an everything plus plan?? Jun 17 03:36:04 the one thing i was disappointed with, though, was that playing music all day drained my battery pretty bad Jun 17 03:36:10 d03boy the simplely everything plans Jun 17 03:36:17 8 hours in and i was pretty much on my last legs Jun 17 03:36:22 bpadalino: i'm gonna try to figure out installing the code sourcery stuff on the mac Jun 17 03:36:25 sounds about right. I'm playing with gstreamer atm and can already record from the mix as a wav; shouldn't be to hard to find the speaker output as a src as well Jun 17 03:36:26 that sounds normal bpadalino Jun 17 03:36:28 shinali, good luck Jun 17 03:36:41 tilton, really? normal? why should it be normal ? Jun 17 03:36:43 bpadalino: have you tried? Jun 17 03:36:44 Tilton53, plans? I only see one plan - unlimited Jun 17 03:36:49 shinali, i have not tried from source .. Jun 17 03:36:53 maybe i should try that next! Jun 17 03:36:59 I love my b152 mp3 player Jun 17 03:37:03 you guys remember those? Jun 17 03:37:04 let me start grabbing the source Jun 17 03:37:07 d03boy: please ask about plans in #webos Jun 17 03:37:08 from mobiblu Jun 17 03:37:13 for the 2007q3 release (i believe that's what they used?) Jun 17 03:37:13 for most linux utils, installing from source has been pretty easy for me on the mac Jun 17 03:37:14 a solid week of mp3 plaing Jun 17 03:37:18 before recharging Jun 17 03:37:19 rwhitby, they tell me to go here Jun 17 03:37:23 q3 51 something, yeah Jun 17 03:37:36 shinali, arm-elf-gcc just finished for me .. Jun 17 03:37:40 let me try this out Jun 17 03:37:41 bpadalino find any other mp3 player or phone that last that long playing music Jun 17 03:37:42 O.o Jun 17 03:37:44 alright Jun 17 03:37:49 it's too bad that leaving IM signed in kills the battery in about 12 hours for me :( That is a really nice feature of synergy that is all but useless Jun 17 03:37:55 You don't get a lot more then 8 to 12 hrs playing music from devices Jun 17 03:37:58 why are you ordering it online, can you go to the store? Jun 17 03:37:59 arm elf works for objdump and ld and so forth Jun 17 03:38:00 espicailly a phone Jun 17 03:38:00 Tilton53: my ipod touch lasts a couple work days without needing a charge Jun 17 03:38:05 you think they'll release an extended battery? Jun 17 03:38:11 yeah but it doesn't have a cell modem Jun 17 03:38:12 >.> Jun 17 03:38:18 called the TouchFire(tm) Jun 17 03:38:19 jwm: some company is Jun 17 03:38:19 d03boy: they told you to come here when you were talking about sshing into the phone. Jun 17 03:38:21 hehe Jun 17 03:38:22 opie-x, I dont know. I dont want to be tricked at the store. I dont trust salesmen! Jun 17 03:38:32 its double the mAh of the pre batter Jun 17 03:38:33 y Jun 17 03:38:34 and constant check for updates, emails, run backgound programs Jun 17 03:38:38 but it needs a new door Jun 17 03:38:40 rwhitby, no, yesterday I was asking about plans and they told me to come here Jun 17 03:38:49 d03boy: they were wrong. Jun 17 03:38:51 will it be compatible with the touchstone? Jun 17 03:38:54 * Tilton53 facepalms Jun 17 03:38:56 that is the question Jun 17 03:38:57 also Jun 17 03:39:02 i don't think so Jun 17 03:39:03 any cases available yet for the pre? Jun 17 03:39:07 Tilton53, I think its facepalmpres Jun 17 03:39:11 my job is kind of not phone friendly Jun 17 03:39:17 rocket fish has a clear case Jun 17 03:39:23 really? Jun 17 03:39:28 yeah Jun 17 03:39:31 lol jwm my old job was that way Jun 17 03:39:33 have to buy online? Jun 17 03:39:42 no they sell em at best buy Jun 17 03:40:00 cool Jun 17 03:40:02 I'll get it Jun 17 03:40:39 d03boy: I have the logs of #webos for yesterday, and I don't see where they told you to come here to talk about plans. Can you /msg me what they said? Jun 17 03:40:42 heh, seg fault with the arm-elf-* from macports Jun 17 03:40:54 anyone can help me with jQuery Prototype conflict? Jun 17 03:41:19 hehe, I love that my phone has an uptime command Jun 17 03:42:31 I want to see somekind of uptime contest Jun 17 03:42:31 >.> Jun 17 03:43:15 bkuberek: there is a way to release jquery from $ usage Jun 17 03:43:38 instead you have to use jquery() to extend with the jquery stuff Jun 17 03:43:45 and leaves $() to prototype Jun 17 03:43:49 rwhitby, maybe I have my channels backwards. my bad? Jun 17 03:46:04 d03boy: no probs. Jun 17 03:47:23 anyone know what the various setreg commands do? ie. setreg 0x02 0xc1 Jun 17 03:48:33 hey Jun 17 03:52:12 nebula1: they set the processor's registries with a value Jun 17 03:52:18 actually i just made that up Jun 17 03:52:30 let me look Jun 17 03:56:06 for some reason i can't get the "invalid literal for int () with base 10" to stop showing Jun 17 03:56:35 is that a talk.py error? Jun 17 03:56:42 yes Jun 17 03:56:50 are you running on an x64 based windows os? Jun 17 03:57:13 Andrew735: I had that same issue and it ended up being my AntiVirus software. I had to completely uninstall NOD32. disabling it didn't work. Jun 17 03:57:17 and i turned off windows firewall and it still did it. x86 Jun 17 03:58:54 i'm uninstalling my antivirus software and i'll see what happens. thanks Jun 17 03:59:56 WillJitsu> Andrew735: I had that same issue and it ended up being my AntiVirus software. I had to completely uninstall NOD32. disabling it didn't work. < This is why I keep a clean windows XP laptop for install stuff and hacking Jun 17 04:00:12 seperate wifi network with and a ghost image Jun 17 04:00:14 -.- Jun 17 04:00:42 Hello Jun 17 04:00:48 hi Jun 17 04:01:05 <@ Tilton53> world's first cellphone based shell server? Jun 17 04:01:05 <@ Tilton53> sad thing is in like 4 yrs Jun 17 04:01:05 <@ Tilton53> that's what these phone will be reduced too Jun 17 04:01:05 <@ Tilton53> Server's with backup cmda modems Jun 17 04:01:07 Anyone running Windows 7 get root? I'm having some issues. Jun 17 04:01:17 no windows 7 does not work Jun 17 04:01:31 Bah! I was afraid of that. Jun 17 04:01:41 do you have an xp computer you can use? Jun 17 04:02:13 just built my first webos app :-P Jun 17 04:02:25 Yeah, but the one that would be best for this is my netbook, and my wife took that with her to Florida for a week. :\ Jun 17 04:02:28 now i gotta give it some TLC Jun 17 04:02:46 I can't wait for a graphical terminal Jun 17 04:02:47 hehe Jun 17 04:02:48 i'm thinking of releasing it as homebrew/open-source rather than waiting for the dev kit Jun 17 04:02:49 er Jun 17 04:02:53 not graphical but you know what I mean Jun 17 04:02:57 a native webos terminal app :) Jun 17 04:03:09 naw, you need to run your bbs on it Jun 17 04:03:15 wildcat or whatever Jun 17 04:03:32 i killed the nascar app. oh noes Jun 17 04:03:59 hehe Jun 17 04:04:01 I wonder why it won't work with Windows 7.... Jun 17 04:04:03 lol Jun 17 04:04:17 jwm Jun 17 04:04:18 goatslacker: watch the next OTA update to fail because of that :)) Jun 17 04:04:21 the sdk will be released Jun 17 04:04:28 and 2 hrs later there will be a port Jun 17 04:04:30 XD Jun 17 04:04:34 hehe Jun 17 04:04:43 do you think luna uses any X code? Jun 17 04:04:53 idk Jun 17 04:04:58 probably not Jun 17 04:05:05 how anybody figure out what runs the graphical driver for luna? Jun 17 04:05:07 Actually, with any luck the app will remain gone after the OTA update. Jun 17 04:05:10 is it custom code? Jun 17 04:05:16 jwm, hahaha Jun 17 04:05:27 anyway, sleep time Jun 17 04:05:28 i left all original files intact. Jun 17 04:05:28 night Jun 17 04:05:40 The WebOS and the Sprint crap seem to be seperate packages. It seems likely that the WebOS part can be upgraded without touching the sprint crap Jun 17 04:06:05 i'm sure like most carriers, they have their own crap they just add to the base os Jun 17 04:06:08 I wonder how long it will be before webos is locked down tight Jun 17 04:06:09 hehe Jun 17 04:06:16 me too Jun 17 04:06:29 hire an Internet worth of free beta testers and then close the iron curtain Jun 17 04:06:29 Probably never. If they really wanted it locked down they would have done it by now. Jun 17 04:06:51 well, once the pointy haired bosses realize what is happening Jun 17 04:06:52 open platforms sell hardware Jun 17 04:06:55 jwm: nope Jun 17 04:07:03 I think they knew what would happen. Jun 17 04:07:05 on teh xcode thing Jun 17 04:07:13 shinali, so i unzipped that codesourcery source tar .. Jun 17 04:07:20 and it's kind of ridiculous Jun 17 04:07:32 bpadalino: argh Jun 17 04:07:45 Programmers at the level that work for Palm think security all the time. If they didn't want people poking and prodding, they would have compiled it or something at least. Jun 17 04:08:01 shinali, it's a set of .tar.bz2 source files ... and a huge shell script .. with hardcoded values for everything Jun 17 04:08:10 Besides, look at how popular Linksys became just because you could put homebrew software on it. Jun 17 04:08:15 Traveler4 it's the same way with blackberries Jun 17 04:08:16 Tilton53: it uses a library called libPiranha.so for drawing graphics Jun 17 04:08:30 Traveler4: if they did, we wouldn't have got root so quickly Jun 17 04:08:33 The phone companies develop apps seperate of the main OS Jun 17 04:08:38 the major problem is that everything is compiled Jun 17 04:08:39 which is nice as hell Jun 17 04:08:45 since sprint can't fuck everything up Jun 17 04:09:08 bpadalino: i'm gonna unpack it and take a look Jun 17 04:09:21 shinali, cool .. i am tempted to run the shell script that comes with it Jun 17 04:09:29 Personally, I think that Palm left it open on purpose. I think they want something that people can hack and homebrew for because it generates more interest. Jun 17 04:09:30 it might work! Jun 17 04:09:45 Traveler4 that is a given Jun 17 04:10:01 Palm didn't go to any great lengths to lock it down Jun 17 04:10:15 and they needed a device that could compete with the iphone and andriod Jun 17 04:10:31 They basicly killed tow birds with one stone when they made this device Jun 17 04:10:48 hell i still like my treo pro Jun 17 04:10:48 And did a mighty fine job of it too. :) Jun 17 04:10:53 bpadalino: oh my god the script is huge Jun 17 04:11:06 PS: is there a software keyboard? Jun 17 04:11:08 O.o Jun 17 04:11:10 shinali, i know!! Jun 17 04:11:10 I don't think they looked into it that far Jun 17 04:11:18 I think they probably just realised people will hack your shit no matter what you do Jun 17 04:11:18 shinali, and it's ALL hardcoded Jun 17 04:11:23 very interesting... there is a plugin for the camera in gstreamer Jun 17 04:11:26 so why spend your money on trying to stop it, spend your money on other things Jun 17 04:11:37 lists the video capabilties as 480/320 at 30fps Jun 17 04:11:39 bpadalino: i didn't think it'd be so big Jun 17 04:11:47 probably used to view the camera feed in the camera app Jun 17 04:11:49 i'm just going to run it Jun 17 04:11:52 Yeah psykoz look at apple Jun 17 04:12:01 and src_still as 2048x1536 Jun 17 04:12:02 they spend more time locking the device down then improving features Jun 17 04:12:03 o.o Jun 17 04:12:08 for actually taking pctures Jun 17 04:12:08 shinali, good luck Jun 17 04:12:29 lets see if I can pipe from camsrc to filesink Jun 17 04:13:12 "enable burst mode for still capture"? Jun 17 04:13:20 zinge it might not be able to record video at higher levels because of memory or cpu limits Jun 17 04:13:54 Tilton53: I think it can. The camsrc is written for the camera app, which only needs 480x320 because thats what the screen can show Jun 17 04:13:54 PS: how long does anyone think before we start seeing people try to hack the SSH on pre phones across the internet? Jun 17 04:13:55 XD Jun 17 04:14:02 bpadalino: ugh nevermind Jun 17 04:14:05 True Zinge Jun 17 04:14:12 but there has to be a balance too Jun 17 04:14:18 the gstreamer plugin also includes parameters to control the flash Jun 17 04:14:19 cool Jun 17 04:14:21 shinali, i think we're going to have to come up with our own shell script Jun 17 04:14:40 yeah, this is intimidating Jun 17 04:14:54 shinali, nah .. won't be too bad! Jun 17 04:14:57 lets figure this out!! Jun 17 04:15:10 we only need a few of the packages listed there i think .. Jun 17 04:16:01 ugh Jun 17 04:16:05 i'm thinking gcc, binutils, gdb? Jun 17 04:16:07 how do i get to the battery Jun 17 04:16:18 oc80z: pray Jun 17 04:16:27 ugh so lame wheres the manual Jun 17 04:16:27 :( Jun 17 04:16:31 i need to hard reset Jun 17 04:17:47 Nice.. Betta flares at mirror on my phone Jun 17 04:18:48 does anyone think a video camera app will be made? Jun 17 04:19:09 yeah def Jun 17 04:19:18 can anyone make a better logo for Google Maps from the Global Search Addons Collection? Jun 17 04:19:19 sweeeeet Jun 17 04:19:44 yo does it slide open, the batt door Jun 17 04:20:38 I just press the latch button on bottom of phone then run my fingernail around the edge of the back Jun 17 04:21:01 ty Jun 17 04:21:24 built like a sun machine Jun 17 04:21:27 heh Jun 17 04:21:32 lol Jun 17 04:22:20 the tab is for the batt obv? Jun 17 04:22:54 bpadalino: how would i make sure it wouldn't compile the tools with no prefixes? Jun 17 04:23:06 i wouldn't want to overwrite my existing gcc tools Jun 17 04:23:23 shinali, i am going through the sh file .. Jun 17 04:23:27 and getting the configure lines .. Jun 17 04:23:29 and going through them Jun 17 04:23:36 it looks like /opt/codesourcery is the prefix Jun 17 04:23:43 this is what i have so far .. Jun 17 04:24:00 http://pastie.textmate.org/private/ountaoxobqikdm2aovkhw Jun 17 04:24:16 it's building right now .. Jun 17 04:24:18 so far no errors Jun 17 04:24:20 * bpadalino crosses fingers Jun 17 04:24:25 think about it this way, for the universal search dev mode to work it needs to be able to send a command to a process running as root Jun 17 04:24:46 Stik pull the tab for the batt? Jun 17 04:24:57 I just got my Pre and am working on getting the Optware feed installed, but it seems to lose DNS (and networking?) when I turn on USB mode and run novaterm Jun 17 04:24:58 yeah Jun 17 04:25:03 luna itself is unprivledged, right? Jun 17 04:25:08 tmzt: huh? Jun 17 04:25:14 ebroder: when in USB mode, your radios get turned off .. Jun 17 04:25:18 Oh, hi Evan. Jun 17 04:25:22 ebroder: set it to "just charge" Jun 17 04:25:24 Hey, asedeno Jun 17 04:25:25 and you should be good Jun 17 04:25:35 tmzt: why does it need to run a command as root to unhide dev mode? Jun 17 04:25:43 Yeah, no need to switch modes in USB mode. Jun 17 04:25:47 or is that not what your talking about? Jun 17 04:25:53 bpadalino: Ok. I thought I read that it needed to be in one of the USB modes. I'll switch it back Jun 17 04:25:55 s/mode././ Jun 17 04:25:57 ok Jun 17 04:26:20 me, or another Evan? Jun 17 04:26:21 because the novacomd must be running as root or some kind setuid callout must be involved to get a root shell Jun 17 04:26:32 wow after 8yrs of slackware ubuntu is wierd... Jun 17 04:26:34 EvanPro_: He was talking to me - asedeno is a friend of mine from school Jun 17 04:26:40 ty Jun 17 04:27:03 ahhh, okay, two Evans.. cool. nice to meet you, Evan. Jun 17 04:27:36 please compile please compile please compiles Jun 17 04:27:37 Nice to meet you too, Evan :) Jun 17 04:27:42 shinali, binutils compiles .. Jun 17 04:27:48 sweet! Jun 17 04:27:49 install barfs if you don;'t have tetex installed Jun 17 04:27:56 shinali, sudo port install tetex Jun 17 04:27:58 ? Jun 17 04:28:05 yeah ubuntu is very diff, what windowmanager did you run? Jun 17 04:28:20 in other news, i got my touchstone today.. they sent me an extra one for some reason, too. Jun 17 04:28:22 is there a easier way to reboot then turn off, wait, turn back on ? Jun 17 04:28:33 reboot? Jun 17 04:28:43 after editing Jun 17 04:28:44 just to enable js modules? Jun 17 04:28:48 i just want to reboot Jun 17 04:28:50 editing what Jun 17 04:28:55 but i have to, turn off, wait, turn on Jun 17 04:29:11 im editing the global search addons now Jun 17 04:29:23 EvanPro_: How's the touchstone? Worth picking up? Jun 17 04:29:31 I'm kind of on the fence about it Jun 17 04:29:32 macports is a good thing sometimes Jun 17 04:29:37 the only thing you need to reboot for in linux is changing kernel, or zombie processes Jun 17 04:29:51 http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository <- the su/sudo debate has been resolved to use sudo, and I have removed the su option. Can someone please proof-check and confirm? Jun 17 04:30:05 good Jun 17 04:30:09 ebroder: honestly, not worth the money, imo... it's neat and all, but not "money well spent" Jun 17 04:30:15 what was the su option? Jun 17 04:30:24 tmzt: using su instead of sudo Jun 17 04:30:40 i love how easy changing the look of the OS is Jun 17 04:30:40 yes, with password? Jun 17 04:30:47 yes Jun 17 04:30:52 I see Jun 17 04:31:04 I like my touchstone a lot. Jun 17 04:31:07 I really think sudo, so happy it's resolved Jun 17 04:31:19 Elysian: you can thank javascript/dom Jun 17 04:31:28 the rationale for sudo is that it teaches people to only use root when required, and we can point people to Ubuntu to learn how to use it. Jun 17 04:31:33 EvanPro_: Yeah, that was roughly my conclusion Jun 17 04:31:38 i'm thanking simple png images with transparency lol Jun 17 04:31:45 and readily available images on google image search Jun 17 04:32:06 yeah Elysian what methods do you use Jun 17 04:32:36 rwhitby it's a lot safer Jun 17 04:32:38 ebroder: i've only had it for about 5 minutes now, so it may grow on me... but still, it's a lot of money for a charger. Jun 17 04:32:38 just photoshop(or gimp at work), and a lot of resizing of stuff i find, trying to tie things together so its cohesive Jun 17 04:32:39 bpadalino: which version of codesourcery are you building? Jun 17 04:32:50 rwhitby: the 2007q3 ? Jun 17 04:32:53 some noob can't run a script and kill their whole install Jun 17 04:32:54 :/ Jun 17 04:33:03 i thought i saw an svn comment somewhere that was the version used Jun 17 04:33:44 I wonder if somebody will make alternate chargers for it Jun 17 04:33:44 ok, we're using 2008q1 for optware Jun 17 04:33:48 ebroder: so far it's annoyed me because i like to text while charging, and it dings every time i put it back on the touchstone (haven't checked if i can turn that off yet).. and it;s awkward to pull the whole thing off your desk and text with it.' Jun 17 04:33:54 is it much more than coil? Jun 17 04:34:25 so use musb then Jun 17 04:34:29 for that Jun 17 04:35:01 rwhitby: how much has cortex support changed? Jun 17 04:35:04 almost all the ipkg says 2007q3 Jun 17 04:35:11 rwhitby: hrmm ... if i make a script that unpacks and runs, the configure line options should mostly be the same right ? Jun 17 04:35:48 bpadalino: yep, should be. Jun 17 04:36:06 okie dokie Jun 17 04:36:27 apparently tetex needs a shit load of things Jun 17 04:36:39 wtf i thought i had gzip Jun 17 04:36:46 bpadalino: for optware we've done 05q1, 05q3, 06q3 and 08q1, so we chose 08q1 for the pre. Jun 17 04:36:52 gotcha Jun 17 04:37:08 the gcc, glibc and binutils versions match I think. Jun 17 04:37:59 man, we need some graphic artist to make some new icons/logo for the pre, any ideas were we could start?? anyone?? Jun 17 04:38:00 its FINALLY installing tetex Jun 17 04:38:06 bpadalino: http://trac.nslu2-linux.org/optware/browser/trunk/platforms/toolchain-cs08q1armel.mk <- do those versions match what you're compiling? Jun 17 04:38:30 haha, tetex on the pre? Jun 17 04:38:41 no, on my mac Jun 17 04:38:52 oh, you using macports? Jun 17 04:38:59 yeah Jun 17 04:39:03 zsazs: if you need it it should work though Jun 17 04:39:09 it needed 50 other things before it could install Jun 17 04:39:12 ShinAli: I totally recommend fink with http://fink.sodan.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/item/14 Jun 17 04:39:25 Even if it's more out of date, it's still a bindist :) Jun 17 04:40:01 you may reccommend fink, but 2007q3 code sourcery doesn't Jun 17 04:40:33 hrm Jun 17 04:40:47 I wonder if someone will write a Pre database backend for Courier IMAP ... Jun 17 04:40:53 is that a bad "hrm" Jun 17 04:40:59 no, not a bad one at all Jun 17 04:41:06 that build script is pretty close, rwhitby Jun 17 04:42:54 Evenin all.. Jun 17 04:43:02 * rwhitby guesses WannaRootPre's first question ;-) Jun 17 04:43:10 http://predev.wikidot.com/global-search-addons-collection , i want moar Jun 17 04:43:17 shinali, almost done building tetex Jun 17 04:43:17 lol Jun 17 04:43:23 rwhitby: what's the pre database? Jun 17 04:43:29 sqlite3 ? Jun 17 04:43:54 tmzt: dunno, the doctor jar doesn't have an offline cached email in it :-) Jun 17 04:44:03 s/an/any/ Jun 17 04:44:09 src and opensearch aren't supported? Jun 17 04:44:39 * rwhitby dunnos what they are Jun 17 04:44:41 Can I get some help trying to root my pre (I'm late in the game).. :) Jun 17 04:44:52 WannaRootPre: http://predev.wikidot.com/rooting Jun 17 04:44:54 how much of pre is keyboard driven anyway? Jun 17 04:45:11 Anybody gotten a local terminal app yet? Jun 17 04:45:19 my interest was in data consumption through sunergy Jun 17 04:45:23 syn Jun 17 04:45:30 tmzt: as far as I could tell, there are no keyboard shortcuts for the email app Jun 17 04:45:34 ebroder, I'm following that, and it says if I get errors, to jump in here.. and I'm getting errors (which is normal for me).. Jun 17 04:45:42 shinali, making gcc now .. Jun 17 04:45:44 WannaRootPre: "What errors?" Jun 17 04:45:45 I kinda wish the keyboard slid out the side Jun 17 04:46:26 while I would never recommend Palm license this, a choice of hardware form functions would be nice Jun 17 04:46:38 even from Palm Jun 17 04:47:15 Got: '\xad\xfb\xca\xde\x01\x00\x00\x00\x0f\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00root@castle:/# ' Jun 17 04:47:23 :D Jun 17 04:47:25 that's good! Jun 17 04:47:28 Expected: '\xad\xfb\xca\xde\x01\x00\x00\x00\x13\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\r\x1b[Jroot@castle:/# ' Jun 17 04:47:36 and more of that type of error.. Jun 17 04:47:37 at least embeddedsd will make size incremts easier in future Jun 17 04:47:40 oh Jun 17 04:47:42 tmzt: wahts opensearch Jun 17 04:48:13 a standard way to add serach plugins to the brower, I think amazon is involved in it Jun 17 04:48:22 shinali, so far my script looks something like this: http://pastie.textmate.org/private/34tvsrjsmrkj5kevpfbq Jun 17 04:48:43 WannaRootPre: you've tried a few times? Jun 17 04:48:56 Yes, I tried like three, and then came here.. Jun 17 04:49:27 it's not very flexible unfortunately Jun 17 04:49:49 hello all...also havin problems rooting my Pre...when I run talk.py I get...Traceback (most recent call last): Jun 17 04:49:49 File "talk.py", line 48, in Jun 17 04:49:49 port = getport() Jun 17 04:49:49 File "talk.py", line 27, in getport Jun 17 04:49:49 return int(portnum) Jun 17 04:49:51 ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '' Jun 17 04:49:54 bpadalino: that looks good Jun 17 04:50:45 can i shutdown -r now on the pre? Jun 17 04:50:47 so it failed to open the port? Jun 17 04:50:56 goatslacker: I assume you can Jun 17 04:50:58 ok - the codesourcery binutils appears to compile and install once tetex was installed Jun 17 04:51:55 i'll give it a shot, it's better than pressing the on/off button Jun 17 04:52:04 tmzt: was that to me?....I would have expected a socket error if it failed to open the port...is that the normal error for connection failure? Jun 17 04:52:24 no Jun 17 04:52:30 tmzt, was that to me?? Jun 17 04:52:30 bpadalino: same here, although tetex gave me some errors during installing Jun 17 04:52:36 what does getport do? Jun 17 04:52:40 WannaRootPre: no Jun 17 04:53:01 shinali, yeah - some strange "this might not have worked" - but it seemed to be OK Jun 17 04:53:07 yeah Jun 17 04:53:22 gcc is crunching away Jun 17 04:53:29 kinar: I mean it returned something that was not a number Jun 17 04:54:19 tmzt: it is the standard talk.py from the predev.wikidot.com/rooting page...getport looks like this:def getport(): Jun 17 04:54:20 sock = getsocket(6968) Jun 17 04:54:20 line = sock.recv(1024) Jun 17 04:54:20 portnum = line.split(" ")[0] Jun 17 04:54:20 return int(portnum) Jun 17 04:54:33 line 27 = the return Jun 17 04:54:44 ah Jun 17 04:54:49 and getsocket? Jun 17 04:55:01 def getsocket(port): Jun 17 04:55:01 s = socket.socket() Jun 17 04:55:01 s.connect(("localhost", port)) Jun 17 04:55:01 return s Jun 17 04:55:02 wait Jun 17 04:55:03 bpadalino: got trouble with the make line, telling me no rule to make target `LDFcratch/gcc/libc Jun 17 04:55:18 hrmm .. Jun 17 04:55:34 my gcc appears to be done ? Jun 17 04:55:41 is that supposed to mean LDFscratch/gcc/libc? Jun 17 04:55:44 don't know the protocol enough Jun 17 04:56:15 it seems it bdidn't get the response it wanted Jun 17 04:56:35 can you add print "portnum: %s" portnum Jun 17 04:57:17 bpadalino: nvm my copy and paste was weird Jun 17 04:57:31 can you add print "portnum: %s" % portnum Jun 17 04:57:37 before the return Jun 17 04:57:57 ah Jun 17 04:58:02 http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt218/Elysian893/Unknown_2009-16-06_235610.jpg some new icons in the launcher Jun 17 04:58:09 shutdown not found :-\ maybe it's part of ipkg-opt Jun 17 04:58:13 think i need to darken up the blue on the email one some Jun 17 04:58:23 try busybox shutdown Jun 17 04:58:28 or reboot Jun 17 04:58:51 http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt218/Elysian893/Unknown_2009-16-06_235351.jpg there it is with the explosions instead of the glow thing, strategically placed on the earth Jun 17 04:59:02 is upstart the only init? Jun 17 04:59:12 So, uh, what's the best way to get a real grep onto this thing? Because the one in busybox is...not grep Jun 17 04:59:19 bpadalino: haha at this point i'm just checking on what you do Jun 17 04:59:26 heh Jun 17 04:59:38 i want to put the charge icon sideways Jun 17 04:59:40 ebroder: ipkg-opt install textutils Jun 17 04:59:42 i think i'll work on that next Jun 17 04:59:46 what else do we need other than gdb? Jun 17 05:00:03 rwhitby: does optware manage symilnks on / ? is that what alternates are? Jun 17 05:00:24 does nslookup not work on the pre? Jun 17 05:01:06 how do you lock the screen? i changed the background and dont see it Jun 17 05:01:24 just press the power button Jun 17 05:01:30 tmzt: adding that results in a "invalid syntax" error on the print line...I'm thinkin I just got something fundamentally wrong here...should it matter that I'm runnin XP64? Jun 17 05:01:44 tried that, looks the same, maybee i just messed up Jun 17 05:01:47 tmzt: alternates are when there are two pages that provide the same file - e.g. /opt/bin/scp for dropbear and openssh Jun 17 05:01:50 no Jun 17 05:02:05 tmzt: each package has a priority, and the highest priority gets the symlink for the name. Jun 17 05:02:12 in this case builtin vs. textutils Jun 17 05:02:12 does anyone know if nslookup works on the pre? Jun 17 05:02:44 so you need a virtual package of somekind in ipkg-opt? Jun 17 05:03:15 no, those two packages are both modified to use update-alternatives Jun 17 05:05:05 bpadalino: apparently i need makeinfo Jun 17 05:05:12 what is makeinfo ? Jun 17 05:05:23 i have no idea Jun 17 05:05:28 kinar: can you give me the lines now? Jun 17 05:05:50 related to the texinfo documentation system Jun 17 05:06:08 makeinfo makes an emacs/gnu .info documentation file Jun 17 05:06:09 why didn't you disable documentation? Jun 17 05:06:13 bpadalino: it says i should either install Texinfo or gnu make Jun 17 05:06:24 for macports ? Jun 17 05:06:32 huh - those two packages have nothing in common Jun 17 05:06:37 no, the error on make install for gcc Jun 17 05:06:42 weird Jun 17 05:06:46 i don't get an install error for gcc Jun 17 05:06:47 :( Jun 17 05:06:57 :( Jun 17 05:07:22 tmzt: I am trying to figure out the correct syntax for the print command (I am a programmer, I just am not familiar with python)...with what you gave me...the getport looks like: def getport(): Jun 17 05:07:22 sock = getsocket(6968) Jun 17 05:07:22 line = sock.recv(1024) Jun 17 05:07:22 portnum = line.split(" ")[0] Jun 17 05:07:22 print "portnum: %s" portnum Jun 17 05:07:24 return int(portnum) Jun 17 05:07:35 but that results in an invalid syntax error on the print line... Jun 17 05:08:06 kinar: Is the print line indented exactly the same as the lines around it? Jun 17 05:08:13 I tried just print portnum and it ran the same as prior to editing but didn't print anything from that line... Jun 17 05:08:15 what shutdown you trying to do? reboot or power down? Jun 17 05:08:21 yes...indention is the same Jun 17 05:08:25 yeah put a % between the string and the var Jun 17 05:08:40 oh Jun 17 05:08:42 gotcha Jun 17 05:08:54 now that runs... Jun 17 05:09:05 but it isn't outputting a port number...just Jun 17 05:09:07 it's basically the substituion operator, similar to printf Jun 17 05:09:18 portnum: Jun 17 05:09:18 Traceback (most recent call last): Jun 17 05:09:18 File "talk.py", line 49, in Jun 17 05:09:18 port = getport() Jun 17 05:09:18 File "talk.py", line 28, in getport Jun 17 05:09:18 return int(portnum) Jun 17 05:09:18 just what? Jun 17 05:09:20 ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '' Jun 17 05:09:28 befor that Jun 17 05:09:31 is anyone else's plastic "clicky" on the right side (and left side too a little) of the keyboard? like if you press down, does the plastic click? Jun 17 05:10:02 EvanPro do you have the TS cover, or the stock backing?? Jun 17 05:10:03 loose slider syndrome? Jun 17 05:10:56 bpadalino: i'm remaking, i think i might've botched on the configure Jun 17 05:11:01 ah Jun 17 05:11:01 ok Jun 17 05:11:09 i am figuring out glibc right now Jun 17 05:11:10 nope nevermind Jun 17 05:11:15 WannaRootPre: touchstone as of 30 minutes ago, but it's been clicky since like day 2... but it's the plastic on the front that clicks... the small line of plastic around the keyboard, that kinda comes up a little.. Jun 17 05:11:46 Stik: nope, it's not the slider. Jun 17 05:11:52 How do I access the part of the Pre that's exposed as a USB drive from the root shell? Jun 17 05:12:34 EvanPro, sometimes I've noticed when replacing the back, it doesn't always get put on all the way and gets clicky.. Jun 17 05:12:35 Hmm...maybe I missed something here and something isn't installed correctly...when I installed the drivers for the pre, I ran the x64 msi package in the WebOS resource directory (since I'm running XP64) insteadof the x86 package that the instructions said...other than that, it is the only difference from the instructions.... Jun 17 05:13:45 ebroder Jun 17 05:13:54 'cd /media/internal' Jun 17 05:13:56 what version of python installed? Jun 17 05:14:06 damn texinfo Jun 17 05:14:28 Tilton53: Ah - I didn't get that that only worked when I didn't have it mounted over USB Jun 17 05:14:35 lol Jun 17 05:14:36 XD Jun 17 05:14:37 WannaRootPre: yeah, i know what you're talking about.. but it's not the back.. it's the shiney plastic that makes the U shape around the keyboard... along the P, backspace, and enter keys.. it's more clicky up by the P. Jun 17 05:15:12 WannaRootPre: I noticed the same thing and thought it was just me. Jun 17 05:15:32 stik: 2.6.2...I tried both the AMD64 installer and the regular windows installer...both gave the same error...currently the regular windows installer is loaded Jun 17 05:15:37 Okay, it's not just me.. Jun 17 05:16:06 except mine is the top right corner that clicks Jun 17 05:16:38 PreGame: top right corner of the back panel? Jun 17 05:16:47 bpadalino: think its because my mac doesn't have the current directory to look for files? Jun 17 05:16:50 PreGame, I've read a *LOT* of people have that.. check the gap between the front and back.. if there's a bit (like mine), and yours slides a little side to side when closed.. I think it's just the build.. Jun 17 05:16:56 because makeinfo is right there Jun 17 05:17:27 no wait thats not it Jun 17 05:17:31 but i do have makeinfo Jun 17 05:17:33 heh Jun 17 05:17:33 ??? Jun 17 05:17:35 well it didn't used to do it until i poped the back off to take out the battery Jun 17 05:17:48 Thats what mine does.. top right clicks when I press on screen and slider moves side to side... Jun 17 05:18:00 top left I mean Jun 17 05:18:02 EvanPro_: no top right corner of the screen, it seems it clicks between the gaps Jun 17 05:18:30 yea when i first got the pre it didn't move side to side Jun 17 05:18:36 it seems everyday it seems to move more and more Jun 17 05:19:18 PreGame same here.. might ahve to return it.. get a newer build.. Jun 17 05:19:31 Don't bother me much... Suppose if it falls off I might get a little peaved Jun 17 05:19:52 i have discolleration at the bottom of mine so i ordered another one Jun 17 05:20:05 woo i just fixed my clicking. Jun 17 05:20:21 im off to bed Jun 17 05:20:24 Threw it on the concrete? Jun 17 05:20:25 (not the same clicking you guys are describing) Jun 17 05:20:46 What'd ya do EvanPro?? What clicking did you have?? Jun 17 05:21:04 haha no, i just took off the back cover and squeezed the keyboard down and it kinda stuck into place and got solid again. Jun 17 05:21:28 DOH!!! Good fix evanpro Jun 17 05:21:43 Yeah when I took off my back case I now have a clicking sound if I push on the screen and back at the top right corner Jun 17 05:22:01 not sure if it's a perminant fix.. could come right back. but maybe it'll just work. Jun 17 05:22:02 only when the keyboard is closed Jun 17 05:22:28 it's just plastic, with little hooks and connectors Jun 17 05:22:36 Palm need a #palm-customer-feedback channel ... Jun 17 05:22:59 If that's all I have to worry about with a first gen phone I will be happy Jun 17 05:23:08 You know thinking about it... It may be why the Sprint Reps told me never to take off the back cover... I bet they knew about this... Jun 17 05:23:21 bpadalino: i fixed it i guess Jun 17 05:23:23 Palm needs a #palm-will-fix-everything-and-make-us-happy channel.. hehehehe Jun 17 05:23:29 shinali, congrats Jun 17 05:23:32 or maybe im just trying to make a conspiracy out of nothing... Jun 17 05:23:38 i am getting a message: checking sysdep dirs... configure: error: The arm is not supported. Jun 17 05:23:38 lol the guy who sold me my phone told me to *NEVER* take out the battery Jun 17 05:23:39 for some reason the makeinfo property always calls missing on makeinfo Jun 17 05:23:54 in the makefile Jun 17 05:24:00 configure screwed up or something? Jun 17 05:24:05 Stik: i got the same thing from my sprint rep lol Jun 17 05:24:13 is ther a configure option to disable documentation? Jun 17 05:24:27 yup i got gcc now Jun 17 05:24:51 You have gcc working? Jun 17 05:24:54 bpadalino: during make or configure? Jun 17 05:25:14 Ahchoo: i've got code sourcery gcc installed Jun 17 05:25:23 oh nice Jun 17 05:25:57 missing is ok, you have have it installed with autotools Jun 17 05:26:49 it was trying to run makeinfo like "missing makeinfo [makeinfo args]" Jun 17 05:27:00 which doesn't make any sense as i had makeinfo installed Jun 17 05:27:28 shinali, configure Jun 17 05:27:37 trying to configure glibc Jun 17 05:27:58 do we need glibc? i would assume they're on the pre already Jun 17 05:27:59 If I am at the point of running talk.py...should I be able to telnet to localhost on port 1254 and get a connection?...looking at the talk.py script it would seem I should be able to manually make a connection of some kind...right? Jun 17 05:28:35 Hi Tilton Jun 17 05:29:07 bpadalino: pastie your configure line? Jun 17 05:29:11 howdy Sloppyjm Jun 17 05:29:40 I might need some help in a min with ssh Jun 17 05:29:47 http://pastie.textmate.org/514733 Jun 17 05:30:07 ssh link please Jun 17 05:30:26 whats up? Jun 17 05:30:30 where are you stuck? Jun 17 05:30:42 what's the command to install nano? Jun 17 05:31:09 have you installed the optware? Jun 17 05:31:16 yep Jun 17 05:31:22 its in that list Jun 17 05:32:03 how do you install something from that list? Jun 17 05:32:12 kinar, talk.py enables telnet through a proprietary usb connection. you have to run it before you can do anything else Jun 17 05:34:10 rawdr: looking at the script, it seems as though it makes a connection to get a port number from it...that seems to be failing for me and I'm not sure why...the connection gets established but nothing is returned causing the script to error out on the return from getport() Jun 17 05:34:36 kinar : use putty.exe a quick seach of google will turn it up and go through port 23 Jun 17 05:34:57 hmm Jun 17 05:35:01 WillJitsu you never tried it? Jun 17 05:35:13 bpadalino: i think its cause you don't have the includes Jun 17 05:35:14 ls Jun 17 05:35:16 kinar telnet localhost 8023 Jun 17 05:35:18 hrmmm .. Jun 17 05:35:18 I don't quite get that, it asks novacom proxy for a port to be opened for shell? Jun 17 05:35:23 WillJitsu where are you stuck? Jun 17 05:35:25 header files i mean Jun 17 05:35:28 where on the filesystem are the 3rd party apps installed? Jun 17 05:35:30 kinar: are you having issues with the talk.py Jun 17 05:35:34 im not seeing them in /usr/palm Jun 17 05:35:44 then it listens on a port and returns the port number over the first one? Jun 17 05:35:46 /usr/palm/applications that is Jun 17 05:35:47 WillJitsu its in, the command is: ipkg-opt list Jun 17 05:35:49 Sloppyjm: yes Jun 17 05:35:57 shinali, i wonder wtf i do then .. Jun 17 05:35:57 kinar: what os are u useing Jun 17 05:36:06 oc80z: I typed /opt/bin/ipkg-opt install nano Jun 17 05:36:09 Sloppyjm: XP64 Jun 17 05:36:11 oc80z: is that right? Jun 17 05:36:11 bpadalino: i think one of the tars have it Jun 17 05:36:19 rulethirty: see what? Jun 17 05:36:27 and did it work?> Jun 17 05:36:45 Installing nano (2.1.9-1) to root... Jun 17 05:36:46 Downloading http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/nano_2.1.9-1_arm.ipk Jun 17 05:36:46 Configuring nano Jun 17 05:36:46 Successfully terminated. Jun 17 05:36:59 kinar : hum im not sure if 64 bit os would cause u a problem i know when i tried it on windows 7 i couldent do it so i dual booted to xp 32 bit Jun 17 05:37:03 not abd :D Jun 17 05:37:04 but when I type "nano " it returns "sh: ./nano: not found" Jun 17 05:37:06 tmzt; i dont see "tweed" or the "AP" or the "New York Times" app installed to /usr/palm/applications Jun 17 05:37:10 well Jun 17 05:37:17 bpadalino: it looks like localdef has them Jun 17 05:37:18 you may have to edit your $PATH , look at /etc/profile Jun 17 05:37:27 try adding +-(~)--> $ which nano Jun 17 05:37:36 /opt/bin/nano Jun 17 05:37:41 Kinar: Do you have your pre pluged in and in media sync or usb mode ? Jun 17 05:37:48 i see Jun 17 05:38:05 Sloppyjm: seems like it might be...unfortunately I don't have a non-64 OS available currently to try...might hafta do it at work tomorrow... Jun 17 05:38:06 install that first and glibc should be good to go! Jun 17 05:38:37 don't think it even needs to be in one of those modes. just has to have developer mode turned on Jun 17 05:38:41 what is /usr/bin/BrowserServer Jun 17 05:38:48 the browser? heh Jun 17 05:39:01 what's the poblem on x64? Jun 17 05:39:06 anyone know where the third-part apps are installed? Jun 17 05:39:14 oc80z: oh?? Jun 17 05:39:33 Kinar: yes just gather all your need files slap them in your pres memory and try on your work computer but remeber to setup ssh as if u dnt u will need to us talk.py again to acces your pre via teelenet Jun 17 05:39:37 does lsof on that process show multiple plugins? Jun 17 05:39:37 Yikes Jun 17 05:39:38 Sloppyjm: I have it just set to charge right now...I've also tried it in USB mode Jun 17 05:39:41 i think the inadyn is buggy Jun 17 05:39:43 telenet* Jun 17 05:39:52 tmzt: hmm? Jun 17 05:40:07 HAs annyone used the talk.py on a 64bit os Jun 17 05:40:16 yeah Jun 17 05:40:27 lsof -p $(piof BrowserServer) Jun 17 05:40:32 lsof -p $(pidof BrowserServer) Jun 17 05:40:33 Kinar, does the Novacom device show up in device manager? Jun 17 05:40:44 Kinar: have you downloaded python for 64 bit os? Jun 17 05:40:53 anyone know of an SSH term coming for the Pre? Jun 17 05:41:03 yeeeep Jun 17 05:41:06 Kinar have u instaled the x64 pre driver instead of the x86 Jun 17 05:41:17 I'm wondering if it would be enough to use a NPAPI plugin without the json stuff Jun 17 05:41:54 In the webos firmware their are two files the tutorial ses to download x86 try the 64 bit driver instead of the 32 Jun 17 05:42:16 sloppyjm: tried both the x64 and the x86 drivers...as well as the x64 and x86 versions of Python 2.6.2....all combos seem to give the same results... Jun 17 05:42:20 ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Jun 17 05:42:20 I made a silly little leds demo: http://predev.wikidot.com/more-on-leds Jun 17 05:42:31 whats the q Jun 17 05:42:40 q? Jun 17 05:42:48 who can't telnet localhost 8023 Jun 17 05:43:27 kinar try useing 2.5.4 version of python http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.5.4/ Jun 17 05:43:53 omg .. localedef is ridiculius Jun 17 05:44:44 for installing? Jun 17 05:44:58 yeah look at that script Jun 17 05:45:07 it does a ton of ln's Jun 17 05:45:15 jblebrun; do you have the source for that? Jun 17 05:45:21 Sloppyjm: same error Jun 17 05:45:22 Yes Jun 17 05:45:27 I'll post it in a moment Jun 17 05:45:30 Hey would talk.py be compatible on a 64 bit system Jun 17 05:45:42 It's pretty lame, clever people can probably easily make some cooler demos. Jun 17 05:46:00 ah! Jun 17 05:46:03 It's not a webOS app, by the way. Just a command-line thing. Jun 17 05:46:07 i need glib-ports! Jun 17 05:46:36 ohh Jun 17 05:46:42 w00t! Jun 17 05:46:43 # ./leds_demo 100 120 240 Jun 17 05:46:46 sparkly Jun 17 05:46:49 Kinar: it looks like you need a 32 bit system yet u are free to aquire help from other people Jun 17 05:46:55 after a few beers thats pretty fun to look at! :o) Jun 17 05:47:24 Interesting info on how OTA updates will work: http://kb.palm.com/wps/portal/kb/na/pre/p100eww/sprint/solutions/article/19181_en.html Jun 17 05:48:21 I added the source to the wiki page Jun 17 05:49:33 kb! Jun 17 05:49:46 Interesting. I can't tell if I think that means they're going to go doing LVM resizing dances Jun 17 05:49:49 rawdr: just noticed this above...rawdr: Kinar, does the Novacom device show up in device manager?...yes it shows up but under other devices and it has the device not working icon on it...wierd since the driver install seemingly went fine and the ports show up in a netstat... Jun 17 05:49:52 Although I'd guess not, since there's no resize2fs Jun 17 05:50:14 rawdr: does yours actually show up properly in the device manager? Jun 17 05:50:29 ebroder: we have been advised by Palm (unofficially) that in-the-field LVM resizing is an expected capability. Jun 17 05:50:55 rwhitby: I saw that. But I don't see how they can without any utilities to shrink the filesystems Jun 17 05:51:13 heh, lights got stuck on Jun 17 05:51:18 # echo 0 > /sys/class/leds/core_navi_left/brightness Jun 17 05:51:29 fixed it :oP Jun 17 05:51:31 ebroder: they just deliver the utils with the update Jun 17 05:51:45 That's no fun! Where's their sense of sharing :-P Jun 17 05:51:47 e2 supports resizing if it's on lvm Jun 17 05:51:54 tmzt: I know, but not without resize2fs Jun 17 05:51:56 well that was fun; thanks jblebrun Jun 17 05:52:05 ebroder: you sure? Jun 17 05:52:09 rulethirty: or just touch the gesture area Jun 17 05:52:20 tmzt: Well...I'm sure you could just duplicate what resize2fs does... Jun 17 05:52:22 jblebrun; im lazy :o) Jun 17 05:52:32 I mean, it supports resizing in general, although you can't shrink while a device is mounted Jun 17 05:52:49 pretty sure it used an ioctl but I could be wrong Jun 17 05:52:54 (i.e. it doesn't have to be on LVM) Jun 17 05:52:56 ebroder: BTW, optware has ext3 resizing tools, and people here have used them to create a new LVM volume on a live Pre. Jun 17 05:53:19 no, it supports live resizing on lvm Jun 17 05:53:28 hey im trying to instal ssh im getting preuser in use Jun 17 05:53:43 tmzt: Not shrinking. Just growing Jun 17 05:53:49 I can assure you - I've done it a bunch of times Jun 17 05:53:55 oh Jun 17 05:54:02 wonder why Jun 17 05:54:07 anyone here have the webterminal working? Jun 17 05:54:18 Random DirectFB-examples-1.2.0 programs seem to work now... Waiting for DFBTerm to finish compiling. Anyone set up cross-compile toolchain yet? Compiling on the device a bit slow. Jun 17 05:54:26 or web-shell, rather Jun 17 05:54:42 djbclark: me and bpadalino are trying to do that now Jun 17 05:54:58 tmzt: Growing live is easier. No ugliness about worrying that you've tracked down that nobody's using the space Jun 17 05:54:59 indeed we are Jun 17 05:54:59 zeno: with WebShell I personally see text only when I press enter a lot; it's not useful. I've had more luck with ajaxphpterm + thttpd-php Jun 17 05:55:00 I went through the wiki instructions, but do not have what I expected Jun 17 05:55:05 i got farther shinali Jun 17 05:55:06 djbclark: can you run that while the ui is running, and can you launch/exit it Jun 17 05:55:06 jblebrun; if youre really bored you could do the KB equivalent :) Jun 17 05:55:21 bpadalino: glib ports working? Jun 17 05:55:24 http://pastie.textmate.org/private/l4uowyw6vvonrxpxjda3xw Jun 17 05:55:32 bpadaline: What're you working on? Jun 17 05:55:33 well - i just copied over the sysdeps dir .. Jun 17 05:55:37 tmzt: vinegar-pot:~/src/e2fsprogs-1.41.3 broder$ wc -l resize/resize2fs.c Jun 17 05:55:38 which i think is what we need Jun 17 05:55:39 tmzt: 1922 resize/resize2fs.c Jun 17 05:55:44 i now get to something about cris Jun 17 05:55:46 tmzt: Whatever it's doing, it's more than an ioctl :) Jun 17 05:55:46 an add on Jun 17 05:55:48 tmzt: no, but if it works I'm going to look into the various ways to run multiple fb-based graphics programs simultaneously. Jun 17 05:56:00 jblebrun: trying to get a cross compile environment setup appropriately Jun 17 05:56:04 binutils and gcc built .. Jun 17 05:56:06 now i just need glibc Jun 17 05:56:17 and i should be in business Jun 17 05:56:29 bpadalino: sweet Jun 17 05:56:52 Can't you just link against the libglib already there? Jun 17 05:57:00 Oh wait. Jun 17 05:57:05 Nevermind. Jun 17 05:57:16 well - i thought you were right ... Jun 17 05:57:44 djbclark, mind expanding on ajaxterm? Jun 17 05:58:02 zeno: sure, ajaxphpterm, ajaxterm is actually different Jun 17 05:58:07 bpadalino: any reason why that wouldn't work? Jun 17 05:58:18 zeno: sec, I'll just stick the config files in some pastebin... Jun 17 05:58:20 i don't think so .. minus the headers we need Jun 17 05:58:23 but we shouldn't have to compile it Jun 17 05:59:38 it doesnt seem to be all that difficult to create a background app that tweets the coords of the phone to a special twitter account Jun 17 05:59:44 in case of loss prevention :o) Jun 17 05:59:50 or stalking i guess :oP Jun 17 06:03:39 rulethirty: You saw the tracking app on the wiki, right? Jun 17 06:04:27 jblebrun; i have not Jun 17 06:05:03 weird... just rebooted my pre and it wouldnt turn back on... had to pull the batter... Jun 17 06:05:41 zeno: http://webos.pastebin.com/f79dd079b Jun 17 06:06:45 is it just a tcp/http socket? Jun 17 06:06:59 if so I can't see why you would need php Jun 17 06:07:01 if I want to see what I have installed with ipkg-opt, is here a flag for that? Jun 17 06:07:12 jblebrun; do you have a link? Jun 17 06:07:13 zeno: you'll need to make obvious replacements for "djbclark", although actually at the moment i'm running as root in the thttpd.conf so that doesn't matter. Jun 17 06:07:20 zeno: list_installed Jun 17 06:07:21 I'd like to uninstall the stuff that didn't work as I go Jun 17 06:07:24 except to serve the initial page and pre shouldn't need that Jun 17 06:07:37 rulethirty: http://predev.wikidot.com/tracking Jun 17 06:07:53 zeno: note that unfortunatly remove doesn't remove deps that were installed but no longer needed, like aptitude does. Jun 17 06:08:08 Anyone ever used an LP8501 LED controller before? Jun 17 06:08:25 a python script that popens a shell session should work, or even one that connects to a pty Jun 17 06:08:55 use a cookie to keep the sessions seperate if needed, or just keep-alive Jun 17 06:09:23 that's assuming the pre's XHR supports it of course Jun 17 06:10:26 djbclark: yeah, I figured as much.. perils of using /var/opt, I guess. Web-shell required a ton of packages Jun 17 06:10:35 tmzt: yeah trypython does something like that. http://try-python.mired.org/ - but seemed more like a project that could take a while whereas ajaxphpterm is already known to work (and could probably be made to suck less w.r.t. font sizes / page area pretty easily by someone with php clue) Jun 17 06:11:04 tmzt: but you know, feel free :) Jun 17 06:11:17 shinali, getting farther! Jun 17 06:11:27 I'd like to look at the js source for that Jun 17 06:11:28 shinali, you need binutils to make glibc Jun 17 06:11:30 either one Jun 17 06:11:40 because it has readelf i think Jun 17 06:11:48 tmzt: basically ajaxphpterm gave me a good idea that any web-based terminal solution is going to sort of suck, hence playing with directfb stuff now... Jun 17 06:11:49 bpadalino: i thought we set up binutils? Jun 17 06:11:57 we setup binutils for the arm platform .. Jun 17 06:12:02 not for our build machine Jun 17 06:12:03 oh Jun 17 06:12:05 I remeber using dtsh on desktop.com once, but that was iframe based Jun 17 06:12:16 How should my pre/novacom device show up in my device manager?... Jun 17 06:12:20 so good ol sudo port install then? Jun 17 06:12:24 yeah Jun 17 06:12:50 djbclark: if you can get dfb to cooperate with the rest of the ui that's a good interim solution Jun 17 06:12:50 surprised i don't have binutils already.. Jun 17 06:12:53 shinali, so far my code: http://pastie.textmate.org/private/m9e8gwamb8fs2syhdqhgug Jun 17 06:13:18 bpadalino: do you know whats in coreutils? Jun 17 06:13:27 let me unzip it and see what it is Jun 17 06:13:35 not binutils Jun 17 06:13:40 bpadalino: When did you start running into problems with the libc that it's linking against now? Jun 17 06:13:46 bpadalino: you should put that build script in a webos-internals repo ... Jun 17 06:14:36 rwhitby: yeah - once i get something going 100%, i'll throw it up there Jun 17 06:14:44 bpadalino: looks like unix utilities? Jun 17 06:14:46 tmzt: I'd be happy even with a bad interm solution of no simulaneous working as long as 3g and wifi continue to work, which seems to be the case. Jun 17 06:15:00 (work when the default gui is closed that is) Jun 17 06:15:02 bpadalino: I always throw it up before it's 100%, and then let someone else finish it for me :-) Jun 17 06:15:03 but no way to use the phone? Jun 17 06:15:12 except at commands Jun 17 06:15:26 bpadalino: release early, release often. Jun 17 06:15:44 true Jun 17 06:15:46 ok Jun 17 06:15:53 its almost done, no worries Jun 17 06:15:54 it's already 2am for me Jun 17 06:15:56 ughk i totally have to refix inadyn Jun 17 06:15:59 my eyes are getting tired Jun 17 06:16:08 readelf is greadelf in os x ... Jun 17 06:16:14 bpadalino: even more reason to throw it up on a repo, and then it will be done by the time you wake :-) Jun 17 06:16:24 hehe Jun 17 06:16:39 hey, with fso you could use a dbus client a maybe bind answer to the button like it is on fr, when webos stuff is not running Jun 17 06:17:05 just say that it's impossible to compile codesourcery on MacOSX, and that your attempt is in this repo, and then challenge anyone to do better ... ;-) Jun 17 06:17:20 Hmm...so what exactlydoes ##TTY# do? Jun 17 06:17:54 enables tty/ttd mode Jun 17 06:18:42 tty...as in non-graphical Linux tty? Jun 17 06:18:44 Or something else? Jun 17 06:18:52 no Jun 17 06:18:59 for deaf users Jun 17 06:19:07 Oh, that tty :) Jun 17 06:19:28 I would assume, every other phone here has it Jun 17 06:20:00 bpadalino: i just set up a link for greadelf to readelf Jun 17 06:20:10 yeah .. that should help Jun 17 06:20:15 the next error deals with the linux headers .. Jun 17 06:20:37 xonfigure should figure that out, what's going on? Jun 17 06:20:43 configure Jun 17 06:21:54 bpadalino: i think its because nothing exists at /opt/codesourcery/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/libc/usr/include Jun 17 06:22:48 http://pastie.textmate.org/private/mdr7pebrvxxv1xetsjhc4a Jun 17 06:22:53 new script that gets past the glibc configure Jun 17 06:23:23 Anyone have experiance with GGI? There must be some way to force it to use directfb instead of fbdev (when it's compiled w/ directfb support), but so far missing what that way is. Jun 17 06:23:45 (there is also "ggiterm") Jun 17 06:24:20 djbclark, on the ajaxphpterm... how do I call the ajaxpgpterm? Jun 17 06:24:53 it should work but Palm isn't using ggi are they? Jun 17 06:25:07 So I got my pre today - apparently it tethers out of the box Jun 17 06:25:18 I had no problems seting it up and didn't have to hack anything Jun 17 06:25:26 bah...for those of you who were following the issues I was having...turns out I'm an idiot (like I expected)...no problems with XP64 Jun 17 06:25:32 just 127.0.0.1:8080 in the browser? Jun 17 06:26:10 I didn't realize that the .msi wasn't actually the installer and that it just extracted the installer for the novacom driver Jun 17 06:26:31 dfbterm currently turns screen back, spews some warnings and then "vt_forkpty failed." ... seeing if this is a known issue or I just need to make a device file or something... Jun 17 06:27:12 zeno: yes just 127.0.0.1:8080 and then navigate to it Jun 17 06:29:28 black? Jun 17 06:29:42 is that a kernel message? Jun 17 06:30:25 bpadalino: after the sudo in the linux part there should be a cd .. Jun 17 06:30:32 is it in dmesg? Jun 17 06:30:32 tmzt: no it's from the application. reading a mailing list thread that mentions the problem now. Jun 17 06:30:36 ah, ok Jun 17 06:30:36 ok Jun 17 06:30:44 pts is not mounted? Jun 17 06:30:58 What are people using to build a glibc? Jun 17 06:31:10 actully Jun 17 06:31:13 ebroder: beer. Jun 17 06:31:13 I get "*** The GNU C library is currently not available for this platform." when I try to build glibc Jun 17 06:31:13 im look at my IE Jun 17 06:31:24 where do you put the 12.0.0.1 localhost info? Jun 17 06:31:27 ebroder, you need glibc-ports Jun 17 06:31:37 127 Jun 17 06:31:50 bpadalino: *sigh* I hate software Jun 17 06:31:54 ha Jun 17 06:32:08 access: they mean the browser on the pre Jun 17 06:32:25 bpadalino: And I just unpack that on top of the glibc source tree I have? Jun 17 06:32:32 oh Jun 17 06:32:50 ebroder, the script i am working on has you putting it into ./glib-2.5/ports Jun 17 06:32:54 and it seems to pass configure Jun 17 06:33:01 once that info is loaded- laptop should authentic network connection? Jun 17 06:33:08 over bluetooth? Jun 17 06:33:14 bpadalino: And run configure from ./glib-2.5/ports? Jun 17 06:33:16 ( http://www.directfb.org/index.php/mailinglists/directfb-users/2003/11-2003/msg00057.html et al ) Jun 17 06:33:39 you know what. Jun 17 06:33:43 ebroder, this is what i have and am probably sticking with for tonight: http://pastie.textmate.org/private/8avkncnfojgshvdznwff3w Jun 17 06:33:53 knowing sprint.. some new upgrade will screw this shit up. Jun 17 06:34:13 bpadalino: Ok. I'll work with that. Do I actually need the kernel headers? Jun 17 06:34:18 Is that for glibc or something? Jun 17 06:34:21 its bad enough my phone turns off randomly too. all i gotta say is wtf. Jun 17 06:34:24 ebroder: yes - you do Jun 17 06:34:28 (man it's been a while since I've done a cross compile) Jun 17 06:34:30 they're included with the codesourcery download Jun 17 06:35:14 this is my first time setting up a cross compiler Jun 17 06:35:27 why do you need it? Jun 17 06:35:48 compiling on your pc is much faster than doing it on the pre Jun 17 06:35:59 oh Jun 17 06:36:01 Also, you can't compile on the pre without some compiler :) Jun 17 06:36:10 Access sprint doesn't have direct contorl over the WebOS software Jun 17 06:36:11 And the best way to get one of those is to build it from your pc Jun 17 06:36:13 Palm makes it all Jun 17 06:36:15 Chicken, meet egg Jun 17 06:36:16 ebroder: theres an ipkg for gcc on the pre Jun 17 06:36:23 ebroder: ipkg-opt install optware-devel Jun 17 06:36:41 egg, meet whisker :-) Jun 17 06:36:41 ebroder: it should be available as a package already Jun 17 06:36:53 whisk Jun 17 06:36:56 i can see sprint doing something about it. Jun 17 06:36:57 I think Jun 17 06:37:00 Oh, fair. I'm kind of in that masochistic mood where I want to bootstrap the whole thing myself Jun 17 06:37:04 if not to palm, to us for sure. Jun 17 06:37:19 do what Jun 17 06:37:26 rwhitby: nevermind, it's an .au thing? Jun 17 06:37:27 probally charge us. Jun 17 06:37:52 for... compiling? Jun 17 06:37:56 on the pic, it should 1mps Jun 17 06:37:58 thats sick. Jun 17 06:38:15 shinali, how much longer are you staying up ? Jun 17 06:38:17 but imagine all of us taking advantage of it. Jun 17 06:38:30 especially now with our fancy mini laptops. Jun 17 06:38:47 bpadalino: Is that script at the point where I can run it now, go to bed, and wake up to a cross-compiler toolchain? Jun 17 06:38:47 tmzt: oh you are right no pts bind mount, maybe that will fix problem... Jun 17 06:38:48 bpadalino: maybe for one more hour Jun 17 06:38:59 ebroder, ummm .. not 100% Jun 17 06:39:01 pretty close ? Jun 17 06:39:27 it goes all the way up to configuring glib Jun 17 06:39:33 is there any other place where we can download any other apps, other then the appstore? Jun 17 06:39:43 or do we need to conf Jun 17 06:40:21 im also wondering how long it will take to setup RDC for pre. Jun 17 06:40:22 there really are no other apps yet Jun 17 06:41:19 djbclark, thanks.. that did it! You should update the wiki. Someone should also post that the web-shell is not really functional Jun 17 06:42:16 someone posted yesterday that you can irc with pre Jun 17 06:43:16 djbclark: it doesn't make sense, was that vt message from kernel? Jun 17 06:43:35 Hmm...no gcc 4.2 source downloaded, and crappy internet connection at home. I think my toolchain is going to wait until tomorrow. Night, all Jun 17 06:44:06 i don't think he downloaded code sourcery? Jun 17 06:44:45 i don't think so either Jun 17 06:44:46 tmzt: so dfbterm --size=50x30 -c "top" works but not getting input from the keyboard. Guess that'll need to wait till tomorrow. But looks promising. Jun 17 06:44:52 that should go in there Jun 17 06:44:59 yup Jun 17 06:45:33 ive done irc on the pre Jun 17 06:45:38 I think CONFIG VT is disabled Jun 17 06:45:45 using webshell Jun 17 06:45:52 I can check my config later Jun 17 06:46:40 tmzt: output on http://webos.pastebin.com/m7cb58c87 - don't see anything obviously wrong but sort of tired - guessing I just need to do some bit of normal dfb config or something. Jun 17 06:47:04 can you check dmesg though Jun 17 06:47:11 yeah sure Jun 17 06:47:16 see if the message is there Jun 17 06:47:56 ANN: RFC: http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-internals-irc-channel-policy Jun 17 06:48:05 Looking for comments on that proposed policy page. Jun 17 06:49:31 tmzt: which message? after bind-mounting /dev/pts the error message went away. too much other crap in dmesg now to see anything obbviously related to not getting keyboard input. Jun 17 06:49:42 ok Jun 17 06:49:54 dmesg PIPE grep vt UNDERSCORE Jun 17 06:50:19 also cat /sys/class/input/*/name Jun 17 06:50:32 I think we can get keyboard working Jun 17 06:50:51 tmzt: nope nothing there with vt Jun 17 06:51:01 ok Jun 17 06:51:25 tmzt: yeah another forgotton bind mount, sec... Jun 17 06:51:38 I think dfb wants to open a new vt as an alternative to fbcon Jun 17 06:53:34 tmzt: http://webos.pastebin.com/d173777b7 Jun 17 06:53:51 please paste that here Jun 17 06:54:09 1. Jun 17 06:54:11 castle:/sys/class/input# cat /sys/class/input/*/name Jun 17 06:54:13 2. Jun 17 06:54:15 headset Jun 17 06:54:17 3. Jun 17 06:54:19 gpio-keys Jun 17 06:54:21 4. Jun 17 06:54:23 maxim_keypad Jun 17 06:54:25 5. Jun 17 06:54:27 hsdl9100_proximity Jun 17 06:54:29 6. Jun 17 06:54:31 temt6200_light Jun 17 06:54:33 7. Jun 17 06:54:35 kxsd9_accelerometer Jun 17 06:54:53 that's it? Jun 17 06:54:56 oh Jun 17 06:55:02 maxim-keypad Jun 17 06:55:07 cat that and type Jun 17 06:57:07 cat /dev/input/event3 Jun 17 06:57:26 castle:/sys/class/input/input2# cat * Jun 17 06:57:28 cat: capabilities: Is a directory Jun 17 06:57:30 cat: event2: Is a directory Jun 17 06:57:32 cat: id: Is a directory Jun 17 06:57:34 cat: input:event2: Is a directory Jun 17 06:57:36 input:b0000v0000p0000e0000-e0,1,14,kF6,ramlsfw Jun 17 06:57:38 maxim_keypad Jun 17 06:57:40 cat: power: Is a directory Jun 17 06:57:42 cat: subsystem: Is a directory Jun 17 06:57:44 PRODUCT=0/0/0/0 Jun 17 06:57:46 NAME="maxim_keypad" Jun 17 06:57:48 EV==100003 Jun 17 06:57:50 KEY==400000 0 0 0 10 0 21ff47f d3ff4801 Jun 17 06:57:52 MODALIAS=input:b0000v0000p0000e0000-e0,1,14,kF6,ramlsfw Jun 17 06:57:57 ... Jun 17 06:58:08 and "cat /dev/input/event3" doesn't return. Jun 17 06:58:43 yeah, type Jun 17 06:59:32 on the hw keyboard Jun 17 06:59:42 so it's i2c/spi Jun 17 06:59:51 not matrix Jun 17 07:00:07 tmzt: what told you that? Jun 17 07:00:30 tmzt: yeah confirmed that nothing echos on the cat when hardware keys are pressed. Jun 17 07:02:00 ok Jun 17 07:02:07 tmzt: I assume prdoom play /keys work, although I haven't actually tried. Also I'm using a more recent version of DirectFB, and the API is different (prdoom uses SDL which is cgame-specific) Jun 17 07:02:09 any of the others? Jun 17 07:02:18 tmzt: testing... Jun 17 07:04:08 tmzt: nope tried cat of event0 event1 event2 event3 event4 event5 keypad0 keypad1 keypad2 (all while the term running), no output. Jun 17 07:04:51 hello Jun 17 07:04:58 FWIW there's a hid daemon running, too Jun 17 07:04:58 can anyone help me? Jun 17 07:05:23 can't see how that's possible Jun 17 07:05:28 I'm only half-paying attention, sorry if that's redundant info. Jun 17 07:05:44 but neither luna nor dfbterm should be running Jun 17 07:05:55 while running the talk.py script I'm getting some error messages. Jun 17 07:06:04 tmzt: hae you gotten output from any of those on your pre in other circumstances? Jun 17 07:06:19 tmzt: ah k I'll kill dfbterm and try again... Jun 17 07:06:46 /usr/bin/hidd -v -f /etc/hidd/HidPlugins.xml --output-syslog is running. Jun 17 07:07:04 and it has all the inputs open according to lsof Jun 17 07:07:46 will try killing it... Jun 17 07:08:19 ah or probably figuring out what event.d starts it and stoping that. Jun 17 07:08:57 Killing hidd = output when catting event nodes Jun 17 07:09:09 initctl stop hidd Jun 17 07:09:51 aye Jun 17 07:11:16 jblebrun: which one? Jun 17 07:11:36 hidd did? Jun 17 07:11:47 djbclark: event5,4,2,1,0 Jun 17 07:11:59 you were catting all of them? Jun 17 07:12:01 The proximity sensor didn't seem to respond to anything, though Jun 17 07:12:05 yeah Jun 17 07:12:08 event5: Jun 17 07:12:19 root@castle:/sys/class/leds/core_navi_center# cat /dev/input/event5 Jun 17 07:12:19 ?8J?g ???? ?8J?g I??? Jun 17 07:12:22 etc etc Jun 17 07:12:27 something is wrong Jun 17 07:12:55 it's not what's output, it's how much Jun 17 07:12:57 jblebrun: event2 seems to corrispond to keys being pushed Jun 17 07:13:16 djbclark: yep Jun 17 07:13:23 and event5 changes in response to motion Jun 17 07:13:28 eg z = 8JKg,8Jig8J???J,8J???J Jun 17 07:14:04 actually what exactly it is varys between presses... must be timing info there too or something Jun 17 07:14:40 yeah, syncs Jun 17 07:14:45 EV SYNC Jun 17 07:15:03 probably just the 8J is the code... so need to figure out how to hook that up with directfb? Jun 17 07:15:22 no, dfb should already support it Jun 17 07:15:27 anyone know where I can find the yellow lock image when your screen is locked? Jun 17 07:15:55 I want to replace the ring the appears around it when you touch the screen.. its very annoying as it block the caller id if your finger is anywhere on the screen. Jun 17 07:15:59 it's a standard linux thing Jun 17 07:16:22 dfbinput -k can be used for debugging it looks like... looking over google results... Jun 17 07:16:24 datafirm: somebody already did that, check wiki Jun 17 07:17:46 ugh "You need CONFIG_VT in your kernel for keymap support." ... if it's not there I hope there is some workaround, or at least a /proc/config.gz ... looking.... Jun 17 07:18:17 we have a /proc/config.gz don't we? Jun 17 07:18:25 tmzt: I think it was for the backgrounds.. Jun 17 07:18:50 Nope that's not it: Jun 17 07:18:50 somebody did the touch image Jun 17 07:18:52 CONFIG_VT=y Jun 17 07:18:54 CONFIG_VT_CONSOLE=y Jun 17 07:18:56 hrmz Jun 17 07:19:02 oh Jun 17 07:19:13 does chvt work? Jun 17 07:20:17 http://www.directfb.org/wiki/index.php/Configuring_DirectFB Jun 17 07:20:19 tmzt: with what argument? Jun 17 07:20:24 joshua: ah thanks Jun 17 07:21:01 looks like theres an rc file, might just have to edit that to fit the pre devices (one would hope) Jun 17 07:21:06 you guys trying to use directfb without chroot? Jun 17 07:21:45 you need to fix the input problem first Jun 17 07:21:45 tmzt: Not that I can see. I cannot even find the lock image in the com.palm.phone folder Jun 17 07:21:54 those devices shouldn't lock Jun 17 07:22:07 datafirm: lock image? Jun 17 07:22:19 tmzt: If you have your device on PIN lock Jun 17 07:22:38 I thought you meant the ring that appears when you touch the screen Jun 17 07:23:07 ahh.. no. Jun 17 07:23:10 I don't have a pre Jun 17 07:23:24 there is a ring that appears around the lock icon when you touch the screen while its locked. Jun 17 07:23:25 everything should be an image though Jun 17 07:23:39 try find -name \*.png on the phone Jun 17 07:24:12 tmzt: yeah.. that would find me far too many images ! :) Jun 17 07:25:00 ShinAli: no in chroot, trying to get terminal app to work. Jun 17 07:27:21 did you bind mount all of /dev ? Jun 17 07:30:58 tmzt: /dev/.static/dev wasn't there, doing that now. Jun 17 07:31:24 man I really want a good terminal on my phone... This Graphic one is just not doing the trick like I was hoping for... Jun 17 07:31:46 also /dev/gadget Jun 17 07:32:00 I'm trying to troubleshoot some activesync issues, possible to view/log activesync conversation on the pre? Jun 17 07:32:42 deaconcrusher: tcpdump? Jun 17 07:32:55 (didn't help) Jun 17 07:34:45 jblebrun, so would just be looking at all ongoing conversations via tcpdump, correct?, i think the issue may be more what the active sync app does/thinks after receives a query reply, not sure that would be in the tcp stream? Jun 17 07:36:08 deaconcrusher: Hmmm, I'm not sure, in that case. Jun 17 07:36:44 has anyone come across that app in the system, no listing of it that I've found so far. Jun 17 07:36:59 hoping to see if I can turn on some extended logging or some such Jun 17 07:37:03 which app? Jun 17 07:37:10 active sync, sorry Jun 17 07:37:11 tmzt: YAY! dfbterm --size=50x30 --dfb:no-linux-input-grab does it Jun 17 07:37:31 you're trying to get the pre to sync with it? Jun 17 07:37:43 sweet I can run weechat in a nonsuck mode now :-) (I think... need to make sure evdo still works...) Jun 17 07:38:11 djbclark: Is this in a chroot? Jun 17 07:38:12 dysprosia, I'm trying to get the sync to do EAS (exhange Active Sync) against a non-exhange, but active sync compliant server Jun 17 07:38:24 the pre will start the conversation and then just stops Jun 17 07:38:25 hmm, don't know, then, sorry Jun 17 07:38:28 tmzt: do you want to see if you can reproduce? I have .debs (made with the lovely checkinstall) for everything. You'll need a debian chroot upgraded to testing. Jun 17 07:39:09 sorry meant get the Pre to do EAS ... Jun 17 07:39:34 EAS? Jun 17 07:39:34 it's always complicated when you're dealing with proprietary formats like this Jun 17 07:39:34 I don't have pre Jun 17 07:40:08 deaconcrusher: what server? Jun 17 07:40:57 tmzt: oh in that case double thanks for your help :) ... not perfect (for example have to hold down shift key to get shifted characters), but looks usable for the time being (vs pssh on palmos) Jun 17 07:40:58 tmzt: product is called FirstClass, their activesync implementation works with WinMo, IPhone and AS add ons for BB and Android Jun 17 07:41:18 djbclark: I want in on this. Jun 17 07:41:43 ok Jun 17 07:41:54 jblebrun: cool. I'll go post the .debs somewhere tonight. Can someone give me write access to the wiki? I can doc more tomorrow most likely. Jun 17 07:42:07 I'm interested in open phones Jun 17 07:42:31 but I actually have a cdma touch pro on vzw Jun 17 07:44:41 djbclark: just /msg'd you the wiki pw Jun 17 07:44:45 Hi, is possible to change ESN/MEID code, and then change to other Carrier Vender? Jun 17 07:45:04 djbclark: create a new account, use your own password, then use the password I sent you on the :join page Jun 17 07:45:45 +rwhitby: got it Jun 17 07:45:54 qinray: doing so would violate your Terms of Service with Sprint, would it not? Jun 17 07:46:16 qinray: that's not a topic for discussion here, please read the topic Jun 17 07:46:35 got it, thanks. Jun 17 07:46:54 I'm out of Sprint service in mainland China. Jun 17 07:47:01 qinray: no probs - I'm sure the answer is out there for you somewhere else. Jun 17 07:47:22 qinray: does china have a compatible CDMA system? Jun 17 07:47:43 ruim? Jun 17 07:47:45 yes. exit CDMA system. Jun 17 07:47:57 EVDO 3G system Jun 17 07:48:19 jblebrun: sorry taking a bit, still need to install openssh instead of dropbear so -A works, and usb tether died after munging with system that much, so restarting now... Jun 17 07:48:40 djbclark: It's ok, I still have to go through the whole chrooting process Jun 17 07:49:19 jblebrun: k; after you do that modify /etc/apt/sources.list and switch from stable to testing, and then do apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade Jun 17 07:49:26 Just got the phone from friend Live in US, but no active by Sprint (not sign contract with Sprint) Jun 17 07:49:28 Ok Jun 17 07:49:41 Thanks Jun 17 07:49:55 jblebrun: there's also a list of other packages to install most likely. the packages I'm posting don't have deps set properly FYI (as in they have none listed) Jun 17 07:51:00 is there been proved bypass activation process. Jun 17 07:53:42 qinray: do you see a /msg from me? Jun 17 07:55:20 Does anyone have a copy of the agreement that you need to click through when you turn on a Pre for the very first time? Jun 17 07:57:48 I wonder if the screenshot shortcut works at that stage ;-) Jun 17 07:58:13 rwhitby: it shuld be in the webos tarball somewhere Jun 17 07:58:20 grep -R some string Jun 17 07:58:25 firsttime, I think Jun 17 07:58:41 dysprosia: good thinking 99! Jun 17 07:58:58 powerd is flapping off charger Jun 17 07:58:59 not having seen the agreement text, don't know what to search for Jun 17 07:59:20 Sorry, firstuse Jun 17 07:59:22 debug 1 gunna help? Jun 17 08:00:05 jblebrun: arg something I did (not a service) is fucking with usb tethering (comes up but then stops after a few seconds)... guess I can just turn password ssh on somewhere for a sec... Jun 17 08:00:24 /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.firstuse/app/views/terms Jun 17 08:00:39 hooray! Jun 17 08:01:31 terms-scene.html :-) Jun 17 08:01:48 ugh Jun 17 08:03:08 what application would make powerd flap/cycle sleep/active Jun 17 08:03:22 ssh no? Jun 17 08:03:32 email? Jun 17 08:03:33 jblebrun: 2 .debs at http://dclark.us/tmp/pre/ + apt-get install (dfb stuff) Jun 17 08:03:34 I don't think powerd looks at ssh Jun 17 08:03:38 ok Jun 17 08:03:41 it could be patched that way for some reason Jun 17 08:03:46 who knows? Jun 17 08:03:59 ok, so it seems that firstuse terms do not require you to activate the phone. Jun 17 08:04:02 * djbclark -> sleep Jun 17 08:04:03 down powerd look at events.d/webos* Jun 17 08:04:17 i have to look into it i guess Jun 17 08:04:25 what happens if you click "Decline" on that firstuse screen? Jun 17 08:04:26 strace might be useful Jun 17 08:05:48 declineTerms: function(event){ var message = $L("In order to activate and use this Device, you must accept the Terms. If you choose not to accept the Terms, you may return this Device within the return period of the Palm authorized distributor where you purchased this Device for a refund subject to the applicable return policy."); Jun 17 08:06:21 (in controllers/terms-assistant.js) Jun 17 08:06:46 ah, it goes back to the language screen. Jun 17 08:07:08 Is it possible to get root access to the device before you click Accept on that firstuse screen? Jun 17 08:07:42 I'm pretty sure all of the methods now start with entering the konamicode in Universal Search Jun 17 08:07:51 Which wouldn't be active until after that point Jun 17 08:09:56 Unless there's some way to bring up the launcher while the firstuse app is running Jun 17 08:10:14 Hmm - if you bought the device from somewhere other than Sprint, and never clicked Accept on that screen, and then unpacked (without clicking the license) the webOS Doctor, modified the firmware to allow root access, repacked it and used the vol-up method to reflash it, then is it the case that you would not have entered into any agreement with either Palm or Sprint? Jun 17 08:11:18 Hmmm Jun 17 08:11:35 I forgot about that :-P Jun 17 08:11:57 there are many ways to legally skin a cat ... Jun 17 08:12:19 The only sketchy part of that process is the "modify the firmware" part Jun 17 08:12:28 But, IANAL Jun 17 08:12:53 and in this case, you've been sold a piece of hardware without a subsidy, so there should be no malice on the part of any carrier since they should have priced the unsubsidised hardware appropriately. Jun 17 08:14:11 powerd: System going to sleep now , powerd: System woke up. Jun 17 08:14:12 jblebrun: the doctor file is available without needing to click through any license agreement, and you can unpack and repack without clicking any license agreement ... Jun 17 08:14:14 ugh Jun 17 08:14:21 may be it is imap ? Jun 17 08:14:30 has anyone experieced this flap Jun 17 08:14:45 This is a fun gray area because you could argue you could hack the hell out of anything to avoid agreeing to a TOS Jun 17 08:15:09 But whether that changes anything is up in the air (does forcefully evading an agreement acknowledge you know it's there? Fair use?) Jun 17 08:15:23 chrisa: indeed. Jun 17 08:15:55 ofc not when it is plugged in, due to suspend_with_charger = false Jun 17 08:16:10 now if you put completely new firmware on there, and didn't use any proprietary palm firmware, I'd say you're ok in this case. Jun 17 08:16:12 chrisa interesting Jun 17 08:16:30 but use of the palm proprietary firmware is probably considered implicit agreement to the palm software license. Jun 17 08:16:53 but in that case, you're only beholden to Palm, and not to Sprint. Jun 17 08:17:16 And at the moment, Palm is in an exclusivity agreement with Sprint, right? Jun 17 08:17:40 But does that agreement apply outside of the country? Jun 17 08:17:41 indeed, so perhaps this doesn't work until that period has ended. Jun 17 08:18:10 You'd have to read the terms of use Jun 17 08:18:23 The exclusivity clause I'm pretty sure is more on Palm's end than yours when it comes to sprint Jun 17 08:18:56 chrisa: yes, we're considering that aspect from the point of view of not getting Sprint upset at Palm for a reasonable cause. Jun 17 08:20:32 jblebrun: is the palm software agreement somewhere in the doctor jar? Jun 17 08:22:40 Users/jbl/Downloads/palmrom/resources/EULA_en_US.html ? Jun 17 08:22:47 erm Jun 17 08:23:00 you can ignore the first 4 directories, obviously ;-) Jun 17 08:23:39 jblebrun: that'd be the license for the doctor Jun 17 08:23:52 I guess the license for software on the device should be similar. Jun 17 08:23:55 oh, yeah Jun 17 08:24:57 * rwhitby bbl Jun 17 08:25:31 what about the amss license? how far are you intending to take this? Jun 17 08:25:46 I'm not finding anything in the webOS tarball Jun 17 08:25:47 I guess some of the chips might have microcode as well Jun 17 08:25:52 tmzt: I'm just musing :-) Jun 17 08:26:22 So has anyone discovered how to make the device stop going to sleep? Jun 17 08:27:19 without creating a dervied work :)? Jun 17 08:27:48 not sure, I think the js method is documented in the wiki Jun 17 08:27:54 I keep mine soaking in a glass of Red Bull? Jun 17 08:28:16 hm, surprised no one has guessed it by now Jun 17 08:28:27 I haven't had to deal with that issue Jun 17 08:28:48 chrisa: my guess would be via dbus somehow, but I've no way to test it .... Jun 17 08:30:28 * rwhitby really bbl Jun 17 08:30:57 I didn't notice people found the LP8501 stuff (well, the basic sysfs nodes at least) Jun 17 08:31:49 chrisa: I was trying to find an LP8501 datasheet Jun 17 08:32:58 That's a fun little chip Jun 17 08:33:02 LP8501 is pretty complex actually. For effects you feed it basically assembly microode that it processes in different engines Jun 17 08:33:20 I mean, complex for a led chipset Jun 17 08:33:28 Yeah, I got all excited when I read the brief :-) Jun 17 08:34:00 Are the engines only OTP? Jun 17 08:34:20 I'm not sure if that driver will get sourced (still that grey area with "Do we have to release drivers we wrote?"), but if we do the ioctl headers would be present to play with Jun 17 08:34:53 OTP? Jun 17 08:35:00 one-time programmable Jun 17 08:35:11 no Jun 17 08:35:13 Nice Jun 17 08:35:25 They also maintain state, and you can do branch loops/goto, etc Jun 17 08:35:30 well not goto, jumps Jun 17 08:35:39 (same difference since it's basically assembly) Jun 17 08:36:58 So one could conceivably create a "pulse light repeated with low duty cycle" routine, right? Jun 17 08:37:14 Yes Jun 17 08:37:49 You would want to dim it from the max PWM value quite a bit (by my estimates, anything from 100-255 pwm looks about the same to me) Jun 17 08:38:12 Yeah, I noticed that Jun 17 08:39:11 hmm, looks like NS doesn't release the datasheet publicly Jun 17 08:39:21 Without that you're out of luck for the most part Jun 17 08:39:22 I was kinda getting that feeling Jun 17 08:40:23 I'm not used to datasheets being so hard to come by Jun 17 08:40:45 Most of the chips I've worked with at palm had datasheets I could snag off a public url, this seems to be an exception Jun 17 08:41:31 Hmmm Jun 17 08:41:53 I wonder if we have any relationship with NS.... Jun 17 08:42:00 Probably not Jun 17 08:44:41 The brief also doesn't mention the current draw while the thing is active (not including the LED sourcing) Jun 17 08:45:18 ugk Jun 17 08:45:23 got a huge probllem h Jun 17 08:45:27 I don't recall that off the top of my head Jun 17 08:46:16 is the dropbear installation borked? Jun 17 08:46:35 oc80z: Which one? Jun 17 08:46:46 not 13b Jun 17 08:46:56 its running multiple times. Jun 17 08:47:18 how many times? Jun 17 08:47:22 just 2x. Jun 17 08:47:32 purhaps its because i am logged in? Jun 17 08:47:35 kill off the other one? Jun 17 08:47:51 powerd is freaking out btw. Jun 17 08:48:04 drains my battery to 70% off the charger in 10min Jun 17 08:48:38 nvm, each SSH session into dropbear forks another proc, duh. Jun 17 08:48:44 ill have to debug this blah later Jun 17 08:48:46 i thought that might be what was happening Jun 17 08:48:49 yeah tahts all Jun 17 08:49:00 powerd flapping !#$ Jun 17 08:49:05 afk Jun 17 08:52:44 http://www.sacpower.net/uploadfiles/2007720141738120.pdf Jun 17 08:53:02 the link seem for LP8501 datasheet Jun 17 08:54:30 Hmmmm... yes it is Jun 17 08:54:34 But the wrong LP8501 :( Jun 17 08:55:23 ohh, sorry. Jun 17 08:55:36 No need to be sorry for trying to help! :-) Jun 17 08:55:37 Thanks Jun 17 08:56:09 :) Jun 17 08:56:37 argh Jun 17 08:56:39 It's late :( Jun 17 08:57:21 what are you looking for anyway? Jun 17 08:57:50 how the led controller works or whether other features are there? Jun 17 08:57:53 tmzt: docs on the National Semiconductor LP8501 that drives gesture area and keyboard LEDs Jun 17 08:58:04 tmzt: I want to reprogram it :-) Jun 17 08:58:10 the gesture area? Jun 17 08:58:16 to do what? Jun 17 08:58:59 To pulse the LED to indicate state Jun 17 08:59:20 Although I'm starting to have a hunch that the chip is also brought down when the device sleeps Jun 17 08:59:24 so it might be a moot point Jun 17 09:00:53 temt6200-light, maxim-keypad Jun 17 09:01:09 don't see that chip as an input device Jun 17 09:01:18 It's an output device Jun 17 09:01:21 the LEDS, not the touchpanel Jun 17 09:01:50 and what is the touchpanel, don't see that either in the paste Jun 17 09:02:02 it must have an input device Jun 17 09:02:20 what about /dev/i2c-* ? Jun 17 09:03:01 there are a few i2c peripherals Jun 17 09:03:05 the LEDs, the accelerometer Jun 17 09:04:11 *looks* Jun 17 09:05:10 can anyone help me with the novaproxy.py? when I run it, it stops on listening on port 8023 Jun 17 09:07:41 Listening on localhost, port 8023. Jun 17 09:11:10 tmzt: I'm digging around in "strings libhidtouchpanel.so" Jun 17 09:14:02 Ok, I need sleep Jun 17 09:15:31 odd Jun 17 09:15:50 anything in input or related to i2c? Jun 17 09:16:11 usb? Jun 17 09:20:27 * analog1 loves webos doctor <3 Jun 17 09:57:08 someone tell me dropbaer wakes the cpu Jun 17 10:03:21 Hello peoples. Jun 17 10:03:50 Does anyone know what is happening with Palm's open source code (eg. kernel sources)? Jun 17 10:04:59 I think they are in the process of packing everything up and cleaning it up so its nice before giving it to us. If we are lucky it will come with an SDK. heh Jun 17 10:08:41 powerd sucks Jun 17 10:08:45 :P Jun 17 10:28:30 * oc80z lame Jun 17 10:41:30 i think i locked myself out of a london box trying to fix the firewall. oops. heh Jun 17 11:04:06 joshua can u get on that subnet? Jun 17 11:15:14 oc80z: wakes the cpu? Jun 17 11:15:53 yeah some service spiking powerd's awake rule Jun 17 11:17:01 most of everyone here connects through local WiFI or USB/Proxy, while i route through the internet. the issue occurs when the device is not connected on USB/Charge. Jun 17 11:18:02 what does ps say? Jun 17 11:18:04 user time Jun 17 11:18:58 it will wall (broadcast message) to the system that the service is going down for sleep, then it will immediatly awake, this will cycle/flap Jun 17 11:19:41 dunno about to hit the road Jun 17 11:19:55 bb when i get back Jun 17 11:33:38 sigh Jun 17 11:33:40 getting connection refused tryign to ssh to my pre today :( Jun 17 11:35:57 connetion refused from putty roar Jun 17 11:37:10 i can ping the phone so i know its on the network Jun 17 11:41:14 maybe installing optware fubared it :( Jun 17 11:43:43 hello again mikedg Jun 17 11:44:12 :) Jun 17 11:44:21 i enabled the optware package feed earlier Jun 17 11:44:27 and pre has musb so don't try that one either Jun 17 11:44:31 yeah Jun 17 11:44:53 seems something is missing in event.d Jun 17 11:45:23 should i just try resetting up ssh ? Jun 17 11:45:30 yes Jun 17 11:45:35 im sure my pre is already a performance mess anyway Jun 17 11:45:47 not much else you can do Jun 17 11:45:47 with a 960x960 image flashing and fading on the screen with every click Jun 17 11:46:03 why is it doing that? Jun 17 11:46:13 it's only hvga anyway Jun 17 11:46:18 i wanted to change the ripple effect Jun 17 11:46:37 to the whole screen? Jun 17 11:46:38 the ripple is not rotated if the screen is rotated Jun 17 11:46:50 yeah Jun 17 11:46:56 the whole screen appears to flash Jun 17 11:47:03 and theres a large black circle that fades away where you pressed Jun 17 11:47:11 i thought it gave nmicer feedback Jun 17 11:47:36 i need to ensure that the ful screen would be covered no matter where you clicked Jun 17 11:47:42 would be interesting if they actually tranformed the display Jun 17 11:48:26 it seems the pre graphics is very similar to android emulator and doesn't use the 3d capabilites of omap3 beyond 2d page flipping Jun 17 11:48:35 can't see why though Jun 17 11:50:50 what a pain to install crap on a shitty connection Jun 17 11:51:12 bah can't even do it :( Jun 17 11:51:24 ill try again later i guess :( Jun 17 11:51:34 install what? Jun 17 11:57:25 grrr still connection refused :( Jun 17 12:03:50 connection refused means its actively refusing the connection so it means somehting is listening right? Jun 17 12:05:43 yes Jun 17 12:05:51 but that's a local port Jun 17 12:06:04 the protocol itself is over usb and ip based Jun 17 12:06:33 hmm Jun 17 12:06:35 it's caused by failure to negotiate the port number correctly apparently Jun 17 12:06:43 i tried following http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 17 12:08:19 :( Jun 17 12:09:09 the only thing I've heard is try it again, and use python 2.x not 3 Jun 17 12:09:40 im on 2.x Jun 17 12:09:42 the current code is based on a single protocol dump Jun 17 12:09:49 err you meanon the device i guess Jun 17 12:10:00 or what? Jun 17 12:10:04 so if it doesn't follow the same sequence it won't work Jun 17 12:10:05 where does python come into play Jun 17 12:10:10 no Jun 17 12:10:17 python on your host Jun 17 12:10:27 not sure what you mean by single protocol dump Jun 17 12:10:57 if you look at the code it's pretty clear Jun 17 12:11:12 isn't the program you're trying to run .py? Jun 17 12:11:22 no Jun 17 12:11:32 what's the command? Jun 17 12:11:41 the terminal thing is fine, im just trying to ssh in now Jun 17 12:11:48 oh Jun 17 12:11:59 and canat, even though it was working before Jun 17 12:12:04 so sshd is not running or you didn't fix the firewall Jun 17 12:12:27 you need the terminal thing to fix it Jun 17 12:12:39 the only change i did that i can think of is that i installed python on the phone to do something else Jun 17 12:12:52 and got ipkg-opt Jun 17 12:13:00 the error message you gave earlier was similar to the one the python program gives Jun 17 12:13:01 and configured optware feed Jun 17 12:13:05 ahh sorry Jun 17 12:13:28 but I see it was just "connection refused" Jun 17 12:13:48 yeah Jun 17 12:13:52 not "the server activly refused the connection" or something like that Jun 17 12:13:56 ok Jun 17 12:14:07 you installed dropbear? Jun 17 12:14:22 yeah Jun 17 12:14:32 i cant even connect via localhost on that port Jun 17 12:14:46 and copied a script to event.d? Jun 17 12:14:47 event thought its not telnet this should do somehting other than connection refused, telnet 127.0.0.1 222 Jun 17 12:14:56 and restarted or used initctl Jun 17 12:15:00 yup Jun 17 12:15:06 right Jun 17 12:15:15 ps aux show ssh? Jun 17 12:15:26 or dropbear Jun 17 12:15:33 netstat -tlp also Jun 17 12:15:46 telnet is 23 no? Jun 17 12:16:01 normally Jun 17 12:16:05 why? Jun 17 12:16:37 couple post up he posted telnet 127.0.0.1 222 Jun 17 12:16:48 yes Jun 17 12:16:52 that's fine Jun 17 12:17:05 it means telnet to port 222 instead Jun 17 12:17:19 try telnet port 80 on a web server Jun 17 12:17:21 then Jun 17 12:17:23 that was just to test ssh and see if i could connect locally at all Jun 17 12:17:25 GET / Jun 17 12:17:43 dur i think i know how i managed to screw this up Jun 17 12:17:50 http://predev.wikidot.com/shell did that too Jun 17 12:17:56 i had to blow somehting up Jun 17 12:18:05 gonna delete the event/d for that and see what happens Jun 17 12:18:21 event/d? Jun 17 12:18:41 event.d Jun 17 12:18:43 Stik: did that work? Jun 17 12:19:08 Huh? I cant telnet to mine on 23 Jun 17 12:19:29 it's not running telnetd any more Jun 17 12:19:44 no telnet (any webserver address) 80 Jun 17 12:19:49 GET / Jun 17 12:19:53 anyhow I'm in middle of convo I'll quiet :P Jun 17 12:19:53 enter enter Jun 17 12:20:09 ok Jun 17 12:20:23 mine is rooted and working fine Jun 17 12:21:17 am i the only one humored by: "if they don't add custom ringtones right now, my pre is going back!" is that really what it comes down to, being able to have Barry Manilow announce incoming sms? Jun 17 12:21:18 the point is tcp port numbers are tcp port numbers, reguardless of appliction layer protocol Jun 17 12:21:54 someone said that? lol Jun 17 12:22:23 well it is quite annoying Jun 17 12:22:28 i was borderline returning mine too Jun 17 12:22:40 theres no excuse for not having a seperate ringtone for notifications Jun 17 12:22:55 the sound to charge the phone is the same as an sms and the same as an email, cmon people Jun 17 12:23:27 I was under the impression when I bought the phone that quite a few features wouldn't be available at launch... Jun 17 12:23:43 really? palm even had different sounds for beginning and ending hotsync, hard to believe Jun 17 12:25:00 yeah Jun 17 12:25:13 my pet peave is not being able to select multiple objects... aka email, pics, etc... Jun 17 12:25:23 can't see why your ssh doesn't work Jun 17 12:25:31 Sure that will come in it's own sweet time though :D Jun 17 12:25:40 anyone wanna try my adhoc connection "script" Jun 17 12:27:01 connection to what? Jun 17 12:27:46 adhoc networks, you cant use the graphical interface to do that Jun 17 12:28:22 tell me more Jun 17 12:28:42 is this an ssh client for the pre? Jun 17 12:29:09 no its for connecting the pre to an adhoc wifi network Jun 17 12:29:42 ill explain more after i fix ssh Jun 17 12:30:57 ah sorry slow on the up take of wifi but doesn't the pre do that already? Jun 17 12:31:08 nope Jun 17 12:31:10 which annoyed the hell out of me Jun 17 12:31:58 (00718/526263427) optware-dropbear (start) running, process 2044 Jun 17 12:32:01 thts good right? Jun 17 12:32:08 got it Jun 17 12:32:18 i had to miss a step i guess :/ Jun 17 12:32:26 so your will connect automatically verses the pre requiring you to select/confirm? Jun 17 12:33:17 you cant select an adhoc network through the gui on the pre Jun 17 12:33:28 annoying eh Jun 17 12:33:45 its has limited uses though Jun 17 12:33:54 im only bitching because i have an adhoc network between my pre, g1, and laptop Jun 17 12:34:04 so my g1 can share its internet connection Jun 17 12:34:14 ah Jun 17 12:35:05 have you tried setting either your pre or your g1's wifi mode to 'master' and seeing if either can perform as an AP? Jun 17 12:35:38 I smell creative tethering Jun 17 12:36:17 have not Jun 17 12:36:23 (iwconfig mode master) Jun 17 12:36:37 as opposed to adhoc/managed Jun 17 12:36:39 see if the pre driver can do that Jun 17 12:36:43 g1 can't Jun 17 12:36:54 pre is libertas based Jun 17 12:37:16 the other question is what routing capabilities the pre has Jun 17 12:37:37 or if there's userland utils that can do ip masquerading (doubting the relevant iptables mods are on the pre) Jun 17 12:37:40 whatever the kernel has Jun 17 12:37:56 that would be hard Jun 17 12:38:55 does support wireless extensions? Jun 17 12:39:00 ugh after this fiasco i dont remember why i needed to ssh to my phone Jun 17 12:39:01 lol Jun 17 12:39:22 Hery Jun 17 12:39:28 hey* anyone have the pdfviewer Jun 17 12:39:40 iptables is on the pre it seems, anyone with ssh to the pre wanna try `iptables -t nat -nL` ? Jun 17 12:39:49 I hate it when that happens Jun 17 12:39:52 I backed up my files and soemthing went wrong and i set back to the old files but it appears that I have messed up the pdfviewer Jun 17 12:39:59 anyone got the whole app that I could have? Jun 17 12:40:10 oooo mms attachments are saved on /media/internal Jun 17 12:40:18 jclu: did you reboot Jun 17 12:40:20 infact, http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/185206-possible-tether-work-around.html Jun 17 12:40:20 javascript is cached Jun 17 12:40:21 yep Jun 17 12:40:33 so yeah, it's doable alrady Jun 17 12:40:41 * Hamzifer realises this is the wrong channel and hides Jun 17 12:41:27 Hamzifer: how is it the wrong channel? Jun 17 12:41:28 does anyone want to be nice enough to zip the app and send me it? Jun 17 12:41:40 djk: read the topic Jun 17 12:42:36 aynone? Jun 17 12:45:42 wonder if it is possible make it vibrate stronger Jun 17 12:45:48 anyone want to zip the pdf viewer app and send me it Jun 17 12:46:09 also I was wondering if anyone had any idea how to make it so we could copy and paste in texts, emails, webrowser and more Jun 17 12:46:19 is there something we need to add or remove to allow it? Jun 17 12:47:08 have you use th edit menu? Jun 17 12:47:48 anyone actually get the restore image working with qemo yet? Jun 17 12:48:15 kernel? Jun 17 12:48:47 SubtleGradient: welcome! :P Jun 17 12:48:49 colonel mehat! Jun 17 12:49:03 SubtleGradient: is there a package to get qemu running on os x? Jun 17 12:49:27 I'm sure there's a mac qemo, iirc I've seen it around Jun 17 12:49:33 hey Jun 17 12:49:37 anyone want to help me out Jun 17 12:49:43 im looking nfor the pdfviewer app Jun 17 12:49:58 thanks Jun 17 12:50:02 from whoever Jun 17 12:50:04 ;D Jun 17 12:50:13 ah yes .. Jun 17 12:50:30 also anyone have any idea if we can mod the pre to allow copy in paste from webbrowser and stuff Jun 17 12:51:01 SubtleGradient: http://www.kju-app.org/ - that appears to be emulator .. Jun 17 12:51:36 jclusso: you can download the webdoctor and extract the pdfviewer http://kb.palm.com/wps/portal/kb/common/article/32759_en.html Jun 17 12:51:54 jclusso: you're asking about copying *non-editable* text, right? Jun 17 12:52:34 yes Jun 17 12:53:33 im thinking a modification to the browser would allow this Jun 17 12:53:41 maybe something needs to be added or removed. Jun 17 12:54:15 backup a second and just think about how you would select non-editable text. Jun 17 12:54:37 can you do it on your pc? Jun 17 12:54:48 well why is the text non-editiable Jun 17 12:54:59 it would be really awkward Jun 17 12:55:02 see usually to make text non-editable you do something in javascript Jun 17 12:55:10 youd have to tap, insert a cursor Jun 17 12:55:17 on a website I can make the text non-editable Jun 17 12:55:20 then do the usual shift drag Jun 17 12:55:33 but would about links Jun 17 12:55:34 im a webdesign but I forgot how you make text non-selectable with javascript Jun 17 12:55:38 or oddly formatted pages Jun 17 12:55:52 its not non-editable i think its non-selectable Jun 17 12:56:11 jclusso: really? You think the text between the body tags on a page is editable by default? Jun 17 12:56:35 do any mobile os's allow this? Jun 17 12:56:40 its a huge undertaking Jun 17 12:56:48 from a usabilty standpoint Jun 17 12:56:59 bpadalino: http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-hacking Jun 17 12:57:24 djk: certainly I can, as long as it's not an OS dialog box. Jun 17 12:58:00 Unless someone takes special measures, I can certainly select any text on a webpage whether it's in an imput field or not. Jun 17 12:58:20 hey all Jun 17 12:58:27 blau-mikeDG: desktop web browsers manage to allow selection of non-editable text... its really not that difficult Jun 17 12:58:38 drnull: that's the point: No, it's not editable, but we can still select it to copy. Jun 17 12:58:50 And when your entire UI is a webpage... Jun 17 12:59:35 bpadalino: http://predev.wikidot.com/qemu-webos-emulation Jun 17 12:59:36 there could be a gesture to insert a cursor in the text, then you would use the normal means of selecting, etc Jun 17 12:59:37 I understand that, I was replying to "jclusso: see usually to make text non-editable you do something in javascript" Jun 17 12:59:50 I see what you mean there isn't selection cursor Jun 17 13:00:10 i went afk for a second but yes the stuff is editably Jun 17 13:00:17 editable* Jun 17 13:00:21 the global search addons...whoever's making those glorious images can you add one for IMDB ? Jun 17 13:00:23 oh yeah - i think i remember writing that! Jun 17 13:00:35 i.e., maybe hold gesture area, and tap in the text, much like you hold the gesture area and hit x/c/v for cut and paste Jun 17 13:00:50 twobitsprite: yes, the point is, it's just not a simple modification to the browser (adding or removing something). Jun 17 13:01:01 in fact, most browsers allow you to insert a carrot in the text Jun 17 13:01:21 Wsuppeople Jun 17 13:01:24 see maybe if we just implemented something like when you touch the screen with one finger it shows a cursour Jun 17 13:01:28 drnull: I also can't imagine it being prohibitivly difficult Jun 17 13:01:28 * drnull clicks in firefox and sees no cursor/carrot... Jun 17 13:01:34 drnull: it's an option Jun 17 13:01:36 when you just tap somewhere Jun 17 13:02:03 Good morning all Jun 17 13:02:06 im hungry Jun 17 13:02:10 or even if it was a gesture like someone mentioned above Jun 17 13:02:17 what about texts, and emails? Jun 17 13:02:25 What are we talking about here Jun 17 13:02:30 that text is all editable but for some reason they never inserted the cursor Jun 17 13:02:39 Oh ok Jun 17 13:02:57 i have not done much with the webos yes but Im thinking of looking at the memo app to see how the copy and paste works exactly Jun 17 13:02:57 twobitsprite: caret Jun 17 13:03:10 what makes the cursor show up and stuff Jun 17 13:03:17 Baylink: thanks, I was wondering why google wasn't finding anything :P Jun 17 13:03:23 when caret is available thats when copy and paste is active Jun 17 13:03:25 an option like in adobe to change the cursor to a selection tool Jun 17 13:03:34 ummm Jun 17 13:03:41 http://brajeshwar.com/2006/turning-on-caret-browsing-in-firefox/ Jun 17 13:03:42 let me find the listener file for that function Jun 17 13:04:31 something like that would be perfect Jun 17 13:05:05 twobitsprite: haha, that's cool Jun 17 13:05:23 Look for caret browsing in webkit Jun 17 13:05:25 that might help Jun 17 13:05:38 since the browser is based on it Jun 17 13:05:51 or maybe, gesture + to turn on the caret, then you can tap in areas to get the caret in the right general area, then use the usual gestures to move it around and select Jun 17 13:06:09 https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-unassigned/2009-January/097942.html Jun 17 13:06:17 Is the "hold your thumb on the gesture area and drag" approach ruled out for some reason? Jun 17 13:06:53 Baylink: didn't work for me Jun 17 13:06:55 http://webkitgtk.org/reference/webkitgtk-WebKitWebSettings.html Jun 17 13:07:09 No, I mean as a solution to implement; I realize it doesn't work at the moment. Jun 17 13:07:17 Baylink: well... first you'd have to enable the caret, and then position it somewhere Jun 17 13:07:27 It would seem to be A Good Thing if all copying was done the same way... Jun 17 13:07:30 no? Jun 17 13:07:42 I don't think anyone is ruling it out Jun 17 13:07:46 how do you copy a folder in linux? Jun 17 13:07:48 cp isnt working Jun 17 13:08:02 cp -R maybe Jun 17 13:08:04 just trying to determine where it is controlled Jun 17 13:08:07 true... but also, having a caret always on in the browser/etc would be aggrevating... so, just some other gesture to turn it on would be nice, then it would work just like normal cnp Jun 17 13:08:28 jclusso: what do you mean by "isn't working"? Jun 17 13:08:36 do you get an error? Jun 17 13:08:37 k Jun 17 13:08:38 cp: omitting directory 'com.palm.app.notes' Jun 17 13:08:59 jclusso: right... you need to specify "-R" so that it will recurse in to directories Jun 17 13:09:15 :) Jun 17 13:09:43 jclusso: Linux doesn't have folders; it has directories. :-) Yeah, cp -R works in most distros. Jun 17 13:10:02 so... does palm provide their version of the webkit source? Jun 17 13:10:23 Baylink: well... the terminology is irrelevent here :P Jun 17 13:10:30 folder == directory Jun 17 13:10:31 Hey i was rigth Jun 17 13:10:31 lol Jun 17 13:10:41 I have seen several people inquire about the location of GPL sources on the official forum; no reply at all... Jun 17 13:11:11 I saw in the manual that came with it that you had to write a snail-mail letter to them to get it Jun 17 13:11:23 Yea its in the pdf Jun 17 13:11:28 on the phone Jun 17 13:11:41 * EvanPro_ writes letter Jun 17 13:11:59 does anyone have the emulator yet for the webos on the PC Jun 17 13:12:11 the sdk Jun 17 13:12:11 ? Jun 17 13:12:14 emulator Jun 17 13:12:27 if anyone has the sdk emulator, they Jun 17 13:12:30 all of the above please :) Jun 17 13:12:31 're not allowed to talk about it Jun 17 13:12:34 here is an emulator I have seen that emulates the palm pre so you can develop on your pc Jun 17 13:12:37 er... it was in that PDF on the phone Jun 17 13:12:38 :( Jun 17 13:12:40 lol hopefully i get my hands on it Jun 17 13:12:47 next week Jun 17 13:12:52 jclusso: "here" ? Jun 17 13:12:58 hey does these calls query a database ? this.controller.serviceRequest("palm://com.palm.hidd/HidTouchpanel", { Jun 17 13:13:02 the ssd in the pre is slow :( Jun 17 13:13:11 trying to back up my computer ot, taking foreevr Jun 17 13:13:15 SubtleGradient: i think he meant "there" Jun 17 13:13:25 I assume Jun 17 13:13:49 SubtleGradient: I wish he meant "here" Jun 17 13:13:57 ;-) Jun 17 13:14:10 So no one knows Jun 17 13:14:11 ? Jun 17 13:14:27 hey does these calls query a database ? this.controller.serviceRequest("palm://com.palm.hidd/HidTouchpanel", { Jun 17 13:14:49 atlanta: doesnt look like it Jun 17 13:15:02 im searching the notes app for the copy and paste Jun 17 13:15:05 i cant find it tho Jun 17 13:15:34 copy and paste probably isnt in the notes app Jun 17 13:15:40 its a feature of the text editing widget Jun 17 13:16:09 jclusso: i found how to add it to the menu of a mojo app, but i haven't played with selecting or the text editing widget yet. Jun 17 13:16:27 if (note.text) Jun 17 13:16:27 { Jun 17 13:16:27 this.noteTextModel.value = note.text; Jun 17 13:16:27 this.controller.modelChanged(this.noteTextModel); Jun 17 13:16:27 // We need the at the end, but this doesnt happen because the cursor Jun 17 13:16:28 var ta = this.textElement.getElementsByTagName('textarea')[0]; Jun 17 13:16:30 (function() Jun 17 13:16:32 { Jun 17 13:16:34 var cpos = ta.value.length; Jun 17 13:16:36 ta.setSelectionRange(cpos, cpos); Jun 17 13:16:38 }).defer(); Jun 17 13:16:40 } Jun 17 13:16:42 i found that in the note app Jun 17 13:16:50 im not sure if that is any help but it does seem to be something to do with the selection Jun 17 13:16:51 * drnull rolls eyes Jun 17 13:16:56 ick Jun 17 13:17:02 paste spam Jun 17 13:17:04 jclusso: please use pastebins! http://webos.pastebin.com/ Jun 17 13:17:23 Please don't paste code into irc. use pastbin. In addition, please don't post Palm copyrighted code. Jun 17 13:17:39 Ut oh palm police here Jun 17 13:17:39 lol Jun 17 13:17:45 yea dont paste palm code Jun 17 13:17:47 only diff Jun 17 13:18:21 hmm... looks like most of webkit is BSD licensed... won't be able to get the source for all of it from palm, just the webcore and js parts Jun 17 13:18:26 ok someone try this Jun 17 13:18:33 widget_webview.js Jun 17 13:18:35 add Jun 17 13:18:40 this.enable-caret-browsing = TRUE; Jun 17 13:18:53 where is widget_webbiew Jun 17 13:18:56 around line 190 Jun 17 13:19:05 does it work? Jun 17 13:19:06 \Palm\com.palm.app.browser\app\controllers Jun 17 13:19:18 don't know im at work just going through code Jun 17 13:19:23 ahh Jun 17 13:19:28 Can't access my pre Jun 17 13:19:33 thats why i said someone try it Jun 17 13:19:43 if it doesnt work just remove Jun 17 13:19:47 brb BK time Jun 17 13:19:53 where should I place it Jun 17 13:19:56 naywhere? Jun 17 13:19:58 anywhere* Jun 17 13:21:29 i find something about a drag_handler Jun 17 13:22:26 also does anyone know how to make the pre back gesture work in reverse Jun 17 13:22:32 like say you want to go foward to where you just were Jun 17 13:22:40 I have a question, is "convert from the old loopback method" instructions needed? Jun 17 13:22:40 anyone have any idea how to swipe foward? Jun 17 13:23:59 do you have to reboot after editing js files like that? Jun 17 13:24:09 DSouljah: I put that there, I have no problem with it going away. Jun 17 13:24:20 usually Jun 17 13:24:26 a lto of js seems to be cached Jun 17 13:24:30 just do a pkill LunsaSysMgr Jun 17 13:24:52 I was only wondering if I should do that or not Jun 17 13:24:58 Some people go to trouble to get ssh access in the first place (they only have linux, or only Win 7, etc) and it'd be nice to have a way to change to the proper method Jun 17 13:25:00 blau-mikeDG: what is the LunsaSysMgr? Jun 17 13:25:13 Ok I see Jun 17 13:25:27 No, it only applies if you are using the old loopback method that breaks usb mounting and media (iTunes) syncing Jun 17 13:25:28 shrug: best i can describe it, its like how explorer.exe used to be on win 95 Jun 17 13:25:48 basically if you kill and restart it most of the existing stuff gets dumped and comes back up from scratch Jun 17 13:25:57 hey i just tried pkill LunsaSysMgr Jun 17 13:26:02 and i didnt have to restart Jun 17 13:26:06 for pdfviewer to change Jun 17 13:26:09 LunasysMgr Jun 17 13:26:15 LunaSysMgr Jun 17 13:26:17 so basicly its a faster way to see changes occur Jun 17 13:26:22 not lundsa, although that might have been a typo Jun 17 13:26:42 Another question, I have to always check my ip by hooking it up and doing ifconfig, is there a faster way without hooking pre to the comptuer and doing that each time the phone is restarted Jun 17 13:26:51 ok... well, what is LunaSysMgr? Jun 17 13:27:07 ##DEBUG# in the dialer gives you your EVDO ip address Jun 17 13:27:17 ok lol Jun 17 13:27:18 DSouljah: if you're using wifi, you can look at the wifi prefs for that network Jun 17 13:27:19 got it! Thanks drnull Jun 17 13:27:20 Tapping the SID you're connected to in the system menu gives you your WiFi ip Jun 17 13:27:23 pkill LunaSysMgr Jun 17 13:27:25 shut the phone off Jun 17 13:27:26 lol Jun 17 13:27:38 Yeah, I do that at home, while at work, I have to do EVDO Jun 17 13:27:38 ohh... I just to /sbin/reboot Jun 17 13:27:52 see what about texts Jun 17 13:27:55 pkill LunaSysMgr ensures your ssh connections stay up Jun 17 13:27:59 you cant copy and paste in them or emails Jun 17 13:28:00 DSouljah: ahh, yeah, I don't have ssh enabled for EVDO Jun 17 13:28:03 DSouljah: you can just go to one of the what's my IP sites from your phone's browser. Jun 17 13:28:08 blau-mikeDG: ahh Jun 17 13:28:14 does the Pre work off of sprint as a wifi device? without activation and stuff? Jun 17 13:28:25 EvanPro, very true! Jun 17 13:28:38 SubtleGradient: I thought I heard someone say they managed to activate it without a contract... Jun 17 13:28:40 ##DEBUG# also updates automatically when you get a new IP address... Jun 17 13:29:08 Ok that will work! Thanks everyone... Jun 17 13:29:28 anyone have any ideas? Jun 17 13:29:57 atlanta: that didn't work Jun 17 13:30:06 SubtleGradient: I was able to bypass the Sprint requirement and get it going on Wifi. Works great! Jun 17 13:30:15 sweet Jun 17 13:30:32 i guess I'll wait until there's a Pre for AT&T before I get one Jun 17 13:30:40 shouldn't be more than forever from now Jun 17 13:31:10 stuck in a contract? Jun 17 13:31:44 just switch to AT&T from Verizon for my iPhones Jun 17 13:31:50 ahh Jun 17 13:32:12 i have an iphone, a pre, 2 centros, a mogul, and a g1 :) Jun 17 13:32:16 the Pre excites me as a developer/hacker, but i KNOW the iPhone is great for me as a user Jun 17 13:32:17 yeah, I never jumped on the iphone bandwaggon... Jun 17 13:32:54 the iphone has some pretty crappy usability Jun 17 13:33:08 yeah, I wasn't impressed when I messed my friends' iphones Jun 17 13:33:18 i could care less about the iphone Jun 17 13:33:24 I mean, it was pretty, but there were way to many caveats Jun 17 13:33:27 DNIc: you could? Jun 17 13:33:51 SubtleGradient: lol... I always hate it when people say that too Jun 17 13:33:57 well, we'll see how the Pre is once I get the emulator Jun 17 13:34:00 haha well Jun 17 13:34:10 pre is precum Jun 17 13:34:15 DNIc: I believe the expression you are looking for is "couldn't care less" Jun 17 13:34:25 its still very early for me Jun 17 13:34:29 :P Jun 17 13:35:09 I'm not about to argue with anoyone about the iPhone, but I REALLY love it Jun 17 13:35:34 SubtleGradient: I'm not trying to start a holy war or anything :) Jun 17 13:35:48 i see enough of that on engadget Jun 17 13:35:54 gets really old Jun 17 13:36:13 i have an ipod touch, and thats what helped me decide for pre over iphone, even with the 3.0 os on the immediate horizon...plus ive been a palm user for over 7 years now Jun 17 13:36:33 I personally get irritated at all the people on the forums and blog posts trying to find ways to say the iphone is the worst device ever, while the pre is the best ever... binary thought patterns like that will be the downfall of modern civilization Jun 17 13:36:58 of course, there are plenty of people doing the opposite two, which is just as bad Jun 17 13:37:04 pre is pretty terrible Jun 17 13:37:09 lol Jun 17 13:37:11 but the terriblness is fixable without major overhauls Jun 17 13:37:18 you must be reading elsewhere then. I see nothing but iphone fanboys bashing the pre and putting up the iphone no matter what Jun 17 13:37:22 sure, there are some quirks, etc Jun 17 13:37:28 so it wins over prettty terrible but not really fixable Jun 17 13:37:43 DNIc: sure, on engadget, etc... but on the precentral forums, there are people the other way around Jun 17 13:37:49 true Jun 17 13:37:58 who expected it to be perfect out of the box ? 2 years since iphones release and it's far from perfect. actually the same can be said about any piece of software ever. Jun 17 13:38:10 jerms: exactly Jun 17 13:38:33 anyone see the ##codes# Jun 17 13:38:33 I remember when the iphone came out it was full of bugs and gaping holes in functionality Jun 17 13:38:34 not afaik Jun 17 13:38:39 I personally think I'm going to hold out for an android phone that has decent hardware. I like the openness of android. iPhone's too locked down for me to want to touch it. Pre's interesting because it falls somewhere in the middle Jun 17 13:39:08 i cant remember a single phone that used the same sound for every notification and didnt let you change them Jun 17 13:39:19 i think thats pretty spot-on, shaggy-h..im upset about the g1 hardware, i might have gone for it if it was halfway-tenable (also not on tmobile_ Jun 17 13:39:19 that just reaks of rush Jun 17 13:39:37 the g1 hardware is great imo, its rugged, the keybord is fantastic Jun 17 13:39:46 the only down side is the weak trackball Jun 17 13:39:53 jerms: yeah... loads of new android phones due out this year though, hopefully one will nail it Jun 17 13:40:07 yea the notifications is really annoying Jun 17 13:40:17 are* Jun 17 13:41:06 i was almost g=completely turned off by the notification sounds Jun 17 13:41:21 and combined with the battery life i probably would have returned it if not for the rooting Jun 17 13:41:34 i always change notification sounds to custom sounds i have for every phone Jun 17 13:41:37 to have something so major missing is just embarassing Jun 17 13:42:01 almost as bad as the alarm clock bug Jun 17 13:42:11 putting it on vibrate i always miss the notification, even with it sitting in front of me lol Jun 17 13:42:17 where if you set weekday only alarms on saturday, it goes off the next day (sunday) Jun 17 13:42:28 never used the alarm, but i read about it Jun 17 13:42:30 and then they launched on a saturday Jun 17 13:42:35 well its still a new os Jun 17 13:42:42 but rumor says an update is coming soon Jun 17 13:42:42 so tons of people woke up bright and early sunday Jun 17 13:42:55 Yea in 2 weeks Jun 17 13:43:03 ye and that it might have video :) Jun 17 13:43:08 next week or 2 yea, itll be welcomed Jun 17 13:43:21 im still trying to figure out this copy and paste thing Jun 17 13:43:23 any ideas anyone? Jun 17 13:43:38 i have come to a conclusion that it is the fact that there is no way to select the text Jun 17 13:43:39 anyway try that caret config Jun 17 13:43:39 ? Jun 17 13:43:40 cant help you with that, have yet to get used to it Jun 17 13:43:55 i think the functionalty is there but the text being selectable is not Jun 17 13:43:59 hold down the orange button and drag to select text, i know that Jun 17 13:44:00 because in text messages its the same problem Jun 17 13:44:13 ye but you cant set a selection start point so that doesnt work Jun 17 13:44:18 if i come across anything else ill post up Jun 17 13:44:23 now time to go to the download manager Jun 17 13:44:28 to save mp3's etc Jun 17 13:44:32 also blau i think battery life improves over time Jun 17 13:44:41 cause my phone seems to be getting better battery life now Jun 17 13:44:49 like more charges the stronger the battery gets i think Jun 17 13:44:59 my battery kicks ass now, last through the day Jun 17 13:45:00 cause it seems to be lasting longer than it did on the first day Jun 17 13:45:16 batteries need to build up "memory" Jun 17 13:45:28 so usually the more charges the better the battery gets Jun 17 13:45:36 you are just using it less Jun 17 13:45:41 cause its not shiny and new anymore Jun 17 13:45:41 idk Jun 17 13:45:46 i use it alot Jun 17 13:45:57 i constantly still play with it Jun 17 13:45:58 everytime i want to give it a full charge i end up having to go out Jun 17 13:46:02 so mines sucks Jun 17 13:46:10 gonna go to the sprint store to get a new battery saturday Jun 17 13:46:13 also anyone getting really mad about the phone going to seleep while your rooting Jun 17 13:46:18 just put music on shuffle Jun 17 13:46:25 the screen will shut off but the phone wont sleep Jun 17 13:46:27 lol Jun 17 13:46:49 figured that out yesterday cause wifi in my house sucks so I had to move my pre into a better spot but it was out of my reach so it kept sleeping Jun 17 13:47:16 hey Jun 17 13:48:42 anybody here using the multiple card convo tweak? Jun 17 13:49:06 no, i was thinking about it though Jun 17 13:49:40 yes i am Jun 17 13:49:44 its not bad Jun 17 13:49:47 its a little delayed Jun 17 13:50:03 I like it, but I found that if you receive a message, but have the messenger app closed, you can't open the messenger app Jun 17 13:50:18 (hope that made sense) Jun 17 13:50:26 no it didnt Jun 17 13:50:26 lol Jun 17 13:50:32 you cant open the messenger app Jun 17 13:50:36 haha, let me try again Jun 17 13:50:41 say you have no cards open Jun 17 13:50:45 ok Jun 17 13:50:59 and you get a text from Bob, you click the notification and it opens a card for Bob's convo Jun 17 13:51:01 mrj: feel free to fix it :) Jun 17 13:51:08 ive been working on a few issues Jun 17 13:51:12 that wasnt one of them though Jun 17 13:51:15 lol Jun 17 13:51:18 one issue is the delay Jun 17 13:51:21 idk why tho Jun 17 13:51:25 What issue Jun 17 13:51:35 if I leave that card open, I can't open the messages app until i close Bob's card Jun 17 13:51:44 oh that sucks Jun 17 13:51:49 oh ok it was that issue :) Jun 17 13:51:59 theres more components to it, but ill post the initial fix now osrry :) Jun 17 13:52:36 thanks, thought I must have messed something up in vi Jun 17 13:52:53 crap i cant get winscp working now grrr Jun 17 13:53:30 lol Jun 17 13:53:42 i have simply been moving stuff into /media/internal Jun 17 13:53:46 than usb the phone Jun 17 13:53:49 to move files on and off Jun 17 13:53:56 than just copy the shit out Jun 17 13:54:00 @jclusso same here Jun 17 13:54:03 its so much slower Jun 17 13:54:14 dropbear is being stupid on my phone Jun 17 13:54:14 winscp lets me just edit on the phone and easily do backups Jun 17 13:54:53 ye Jun 17 13:54:55 true Jun 17 13:55:26 as soon as i scp in ill post the fix Jun 17 13:55:39 i just went bakc to the old one for now Jun 17 13:55:58 i thought of another cool mod Jun 17 13:56:02 blau-mikeDG, thanks Jun 17 13:56:10 @blau-mikeDG does scp work default with dropbear Jun 17 13:56:10 ? Jun 17 13:56:16 make it so people can rotate the image in photos without turning the phone Jun 17 13:56:18 @jclusso and what is htat Jun 17 13:56:18 using your fingeres Jun 17 13:56:30 nice Jun 17 13:56:45 cause i took a picture the other day but it was oriented wrong on the phone but you couldnt change it Jun 17 13:57:13 like i took it side ways but the people were standing and it was anoying cause the picture should be the other way Jun 17 13:57:30 idk how it happened but its really wierd Jun 17 13:58:24 basicly the picture was taken verticle Jun 17 13:58:34 but when I view the picture is shows it side ways Jun 17 13:58:47 but that doesnt fill the screen so I turn it sideways but now the pic is oriented wrong Jun 17 13:58:50 but fills the screen Jun 17 13:58:53 its really wierd Jun 17 13:59:39 i think its a bug Jun 17 13:59:41 or seomething Jun 17 13:59:57 doe sthe openssh sftp work with dropbear? Jun 17 14:00:02 has anyone else noticed that the phone app is a little delayed? Jun 17 14:00:06 blau-mikeDG: it should Jun 17 14:00:16 so the pre has GPS Jun 17 14:00:19 or uses the internet Jun 17 14:00:20 ?? Jun 17 14:00:30 has gps Jun 17 14:00:33 ok Jun 17 14:00:50 how would it use the internet in place of a gps? Jun 17 14:00:53 idk Jun 17 14:00:56 soemone told me that Jun 17 14:00:58 and I was like how? Jun 17 14:01:02 it works well in the NYC tri-state area Jun 17 14:01:06 heh Jun 17 14:01:08 ye Jun 17 14:01:12 im on long island Jun 17 14:01:35 maybe palm will address the copy and paste issues Jun 17 14:01:40 you can a person's IP, and cell tower information as a makeshift gps Jun 17 14:01:44 is ther ea way to track the pres touches Jun 17 14:01:54 it works ok but it only really good for like 3000 feet Jun 17 14:01:56 >.> Jun 17 14:02:02 like maybe we could copy and paste in another app and see what actually happens Jun 17 14:02:20 idk if there is some sort of debuger or something that could track the palms actions Jun 17 14:02:30 pre* Jun 17 14:02:46 Tilton53: well.. the IP wouldn't help you... but the cell tower does, but the phone does that itself if you have gps turned off... internet not necessary for that Jun 17 14:03:18 is it possible to prevent sprint from updating our phones in the update that is coming out by modding the update app? is that something we should look into in case the upate kills the access to the phone? Jun 17 14:03:30 you can someone's IP to find them, their is a demo somewhere of it Jun 17 14:03:41 Binarytech: I don't think palm is going to kill access to the phone Jun 17 14:03:49 i hope not Jun 17 14:03:49 Binarytech it's very likely that you can stop the update Jun 17 14:03:56 this access is great Jun 17 14:04:08 Tilton53: geoip only works for some IPs, I don't think EVDO IPs are limited by location Jun 17 14:04:09 Binarytech they aren't going to kill the access Jun 17 14:04:22 no I was saying in general Jun 17 14:04:33 also how would they know what configuration you are using to connect to the phone? Jun 17 14:04:48 Binarytech: in fact, Palm is almost encouraging people to hack it, so long as we aren't publishing copyrighted code, or violating the terms with sprint, like tethering, etc Jun 17 14:04:58 And Binarytech if palm was going to kill access they would have never let it be this easy to get into the phone, they have in encourage...... Jun 17 14:04:59 >.> Jun 17 14:05:04 that is great to hear! Jun 17 14:05:08 lol Jun 17 14:05:20 im suprised no one is worried about security threats Jun 17 14:05:38 thats pretty cool tho that we can just change the way webos works and stuff Jun 17 14:05:39 i'm not, honestly who is going to hunt down my ip address? what point in that? Jun 17 14:05:39 :( Jun 17 14:05:49 You mean like someone hacking into your over ssh? Jun 17 14:05:50 XD Jun 17 14:05:54 i gues Jun 17 14:06:02 yea i know its not hard to do but why Jun 17 14:06:04 like if your on a public wifi netowkr Jun 17 14:06:17 also if anyone wants acool camera image Jun 17 14:06:21 i made one Jun 17 14:06:24 >.> Yeah I am waiting for someone to run a website on their pre and get to hacked Jun 17 14:06:34 also palm definitly had other things in mind with teh camera Jun 17 14:06:45 if you look at tthe image there is 6 versions of the camera in different colors Jun 17 14:06:51 XD Jun 17 14:07:33 xd? Jun 17 14:09:44 sometimes when I go to answer the phone, it keeps buzzing a couple of times afterwards.. Jun 17 14:09:52 kind of irritating Jun 17 14:10:06 http://img40.imageshack.us/i/menucapturetimer.png/ Jun 17 14:10:09 that my modified image Jun 17 14:10:09 pwned Jun 17 14:10:11 the red one Jun 17 14:10:21 with the transparent clock timer thing Jun 17 14:10:36 nice Jun 17 14:10:45 if anyone wants it let me know Jun 17 14:10:54 well you can just save image as from there if you want it Jun 17 14:11:07 gah..... there has to be some way to tell AIM to not notify me whenever I log on from my phone... Jun 17 14:11:12 it drives me crazy Jun 17 14:12:32 aim is so stupid I even blocked the fucking system message address and it still aims me Jun 17 14:12:38 yeah Jun 17 14:12:43 I tried that too Jun 17 14:15:02 also they have to make a way to delete contacts that are from aim from showing up in your list Jun 17 14:15:08 maybe someone can mod the contacts app Jun 17 14:15:17 cause i dont need some of these people that i have on aim in my phone Jun 17 14:15:18 lol Jun 17 14:16:03 one question.. anyone know the effects of leaving your phone in rw mode Jun 17 14:16:07 instead of setting it back to ro Jun 17 14:16:58 i just leave mine in rw :/ Jun 17 14:17:19 if any wiki admins are here, I would like to upload a ZIP of all the images I edited for my Dialer-theme page I just created. if I send the zip file will someone please upload it to the wiki? Jun 17 14:17:33 Ok, if I pkill LunaSysMgr, does it auto-re-start it? 'cause I do pkill LunaSysMgr and get the pulsing palm.... Jun 17 14:17:46 and then it asks what I want to do with the USB connection. Jun 17 14:17:49 it auto restarts Jun 17 14:17:56 ok. Jun 17 14:18:02 usb connection shouldnt be messed with Jun 17 14:18:08 is the ssh connection still alive? Jun 17 14:18:20 SSH is fine. Jun 17 14:18:55 ok it should start up soon then Jun 17 14:19:04 unless you broke something with luna Jun 17 14:19:16 So, i did the add pages to the launch menu (YEA!) and that worked. Did the drag-menus mod, 'cause my fat fumble fingers could not accurately get the top menus. Jun 17 14:20:05 and I don't see that the devicemenu or the app-menu areresponding to themod for mojo-drag Jun 17 14:21:00 unless I misunderstood what it was SUPPOSED todo Jun 17 14:21:34 anyone have any idea how contacts delete fuction works Jun 17 14:21:43 im trying to find where it checks if its an aim contact Jun 17 14:21:46 or facebook contact Jun 17 14:22:10 Rick___, you should be able to open the menus by dragging your finger down from the top of the screen Jun 17 14:22:17 contacts delete just tells the class that manages the synergyt o delete Jun 17 14:22:47 rick: try just putting your finger above the menus and dragging down through them Jun 17 14:23:09 im trying to find where it checks if the contact is from aim so that i can delete contacts from my contracts list that are from aim Jun 17 14:23:16 without it says "can not delete aim contact" Jun 17 14:23:37 nope. What I did was clone the TWO LINES -- 'appmenu' and 'devicemenu' and past them below the two 'tap' lines and change tap to drag. Jun 17 14:24:02 so it goes ap, device, app device. should I try app app device device, or is that supposed to not matter? Jun 17 14:24:54 jclusso, why bother to delete them? Why not just embrace search? Jun 17 14:25:07 Rick__, I think its supposed to go app, app, device, device Jun 17 14:25:16 I saw there was a "Hello, world" app. Do we know enough to extend that to make some icon (eg NASCAR) kick off a shell script? Jun 17 14:25:16 right -- back to ssh Jun 17 14:25:18 rick: i had issues with blank spaces in that line Jun 17 14:25:19 at least thats the way I have it and it's working Jun 17 14:25:21 in that file Jun 17 14:25:25 a few other people did too Jun 17 14:25:27 dont know why Jun 17 14:25:31 but it acts funky :( Jun 17 14:25:42 I had those issues as well Jun 17 14:25:47 still adding some fixes for messaging too Jun 17 14:27:14 The blank space between Tap or Drag and this.app.....? I can makethose go away. TAP works. Jun 17 14:29:05 hi peeps! Jun 17 14:29:57 well, fortunately I don't have to keep TYPING pkill LunaSysMgr... the ssh shell remembers the command... :-) Jun 17 14:32:59 might have found a way to delete the contacts Jun 17 14:33:40 uh.... responds to tap, but not to drag. I drag my finger from ABOVE the battery, down THROUGH the battery, onto the screen, and nothing happens. Jun 17 14:33:44 tap still works. Jun 17 14:34:49 fun the way it talks to you ... "system going to sleep now." Jun 17 14:35:04 I can't figure out how to get my pre to recognize ad-hoc networks. I edited /etc/network/interfaces and changed "mode managed" to "mode auto" but that wasn't enough Jun 17 14:35:17 Rick__, what order do you have them in now? Jun 17 14:35:24 chinno: i have a way of connecting thru cli Jun 17 14:35:35 but havent figured out how to makeit work thru the gui Jun 17 14:36:02 Well, that is a start Jun 17 14:36:04 how do you do that? Jun 17 14:36:35 fyi, dont pkill lunasysmgr in usb mode Jun 17 14:36:55 your phone will be need a reboot Jun 17 14:37:19 it turns the phone off, but never back on Jun 17 14:37:31 and going back into usb mode just kicks you back to launcher Jun 17 14:39:40 hey i think i got the contact delete working Jun 17 14:39:44 im just rebooting now to test Jun 17 14:39:54 ill let you guys know if it lets me delete aima ccounts and stuff Jun 17 14:39:57 If anyone has directvnc set up, please test option now at bottom of http://predev.wikidot.com/vnc to see if it makes at least keyboard input work... Jun 17 14:40:22 http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/17/vnc-on-the-palm-pre-lets-you-look-at-your-desktop-from-afar-but/ Jun 17 14:40:24 w00t. Jun 17 14:40:33 djbclark: it works, i confirmed it. Jun 17 14:40:49 ugh pre takes so long to reboot Jun 17 14:40:52 i get scared everytime Jun 17 14:41:05 does pkill lunasys have the same effect as restarting? Jun 17 14:41:13 no Jun 17 14:41:37 ugh phone sitll didnt reboot :( Jun 17 14:41:42 * blau-mikeDG fears the rost Jun 17 14:41:52 worst, after i made a bunch of changes i probably didnt back up Jun 17 14:41:53 oops Jun 17 14:42:25 hey blua Jun 17 14:42:32 nebula: sweet, thanks. for mouse as well as keyboard? Jun 17 14:42:33 does pkill lunasys have the same effect as restarting? Jun 17 14:42:41 anyone taken a look at the kernel and try to regenerate? Jun 17 14:42:42 no, butits close Jun 17 14:42:49 jclusso: you want to use initctl, or it'll just respawn I think Jun 17 14:43:16 oh god this phone takes forever to reboot Jun 17 14:43:16 djbclark: yup, works :) Jun 17 14:43:22 or maybe i just got so used to pkill luna Jun 17 14:44:07 ye Jun 17 14:44:08 probably Jun 17 14:44:12 the phone is a slow boot Jun 17 14:44:16 nebula: cool I'll update the web page. In general probably this weekend I'll write up generic directfb-on-pre notes if someone doesn't beat me to it; that option can just be specified in a config file somewhere for all directfb apps. Jun 17 14:44:22 idk what is happening in the phone buit it takes 9 years Jun 17 14:44:22 lol, Jun 17 14:44:40 basicly i found these lines that check if its aim or something Jun 17 14:44:49 but i replaced the function to delete even if it was aim Jun 17 14:44:53 and it doesnt fucking work Jun 17 14:45:00 i only did pkill lunasys tho Jun 17 14:45:37 i gotta reboot Jun 17 14:46:07 djbclark: i put a link on the top mentioning PalmVNC Jun 17 14:46:34 (full control) Jun 17 14:46:55 ...i had assumed since ptunes didn't have network access that PalmVNC didn't either :( Jun 17 14:47:03 d'oh! Jun 17 14:47:41 nebula, if I send you a zip file full of images I edited for the wiki page I just created, will you upload it to the wiki, or are you not an admin there? Jun 17 14:48:35 i can upload it, whats it for? Jun 17 14:48:40 actually... Jun 17 14:48:45 just put them on tinypic Jun 17 14:49:04 its a zip file full of a LOT of images for the dialer theme page Jun 17 14:49:36 it make more sense for it to be uploaded in a zip instead of uploading 37 little images Jun 17 14:49:50 it will have to be uploaded either way Jun 17 14:50:08 where else do you plan on hosting the images? Jun 17 14:50:13 the wiki doesn't do that Jun 17 14:50:21 we reference external links Jun 17 14:50:22 rapidshare! woo Jun 17 14:50:57 I can't stand rapidshare, and I just saw a link to "upload new file" so I was hoping that was possible Jun 17 14:51:01 trying something else Jun 17 14:51:08 i found this var called Jun 17 14:51:09 and isn't there a limit on rapidshare downloads anyways? Jun 17 14:51:13 hasWritableContact Jun 17 14:51:23 and hasReadOnlyContact Jun 17 14:51:48 oh hmm, haven't used that Jun 17 14:54:07 so is that a no to uploading the zip? its not images that will lbe shown on the page, its the images I edited to make the buttons green in the dialer app Jun 17 14:54:53 folks, has anyone attempted to make something like greasemonkey for webOS yet? Jun 17 14:55:03 i.e., load random chunks of js per-app Jun 17 14:55:04 =im going to go nuts Jun 17 14:55:07 this fucking wont work Jun 17 14:55:14 anyone have any ideas Jun 17 14:55:23 on how to make it so you can delete contacts that are from like aim and shit Jun 17 14:56:13 nebula: Speaking of palmvnc one would think you could use classic + TuSSH to ssh into the localhost, but for some reason that hasn't worked for me yet (haven't had time to debug). Anyone have that working? Jun 17 14:56:49 i can use webshell to ssh into server now Jun 17 14:56:52 servers** Jun 17 14:57:56 atlanta: hmm I must be doing something really silly, I have 2 other ways working (ajaxphpterm, dfbterm), but webshell fails to be useful for me (text not visible unless return key pressed down). Jun 17 14:58:26 djbclark: it all depends on how the app interacts with the network (i read that on a classic faq) Jun 17 14:58:50 djbclark: i would assume the next major version of classic will suport it Jun 17 14:58:54 we'll see though Jun 17 14:59:20 i love how iPhone fanbois have to troll palm pre engadget articles Jun 17 14:59:26 so annoying Jun 17 14:59:50 anyone have any idea on how I can get aim contacts to delete Jun 17 15:00:11 i cant seem to figure out what is stoping me from delete them Jun 17 15:00:32 nebula: /b 60 Jun 17 15:00:34 awww i sent a iphone fanboy a screen of me on the phone Jun 17 15:00:38 (mistypr) Jun 17 15:00:39 emailing and on google maps Jun 17 15:00:42 then he shut the hell up Jun 17 15:01:38 Right now I have app/tap app/drag device/tap device/drag Jun 17 15:01:44 tap works. Drag doesn't. Jun 17 15:02:11 I deleted the space between mojo-drag',this.appmenu Jun 17 15:02:15 and that didn't help either. Jun 17 15:02:22 I can try putting drag in front. Jun 17 15:02:37 pkill lunasysmgr ought to be enough to re-boot, right? Jun 17 15:03:22 just do Jun 17 15:03:23 reboot Jun 17 15:03:39 it will make the phone reboot Jun 17 15:03:44 or shutdown -r now Jun 17 15:04:14 what is the point of Drag Menus Jun 17 15:04:21 i dont understand what the guy ment Jun 17 15:07:00 I have real trouble bringing up the device menu (tap the battery) and much of the time I have trouble bringing up the application menu Jun 17 15:07:10 My big fingers just have difficulty hitting the hot spot. Jun 17 15:07:15 hehe Jun 17 15:07:34 So, it would be really cool if I could DRAG through those hotspots to bring up those menus instead of just TAPPING. Jun 17 15:07:41 yeah, smaller screen high res isn't too good for us with chubby fingers Jun 17 15:07:46 they need a palm pre glove set Jun 17 15:08:00 just like you drag through the bottom to bring up the arch, etc.... Jun 17 15:08:02 with tiny capacitive touch finger pointer or whatever Jun 17 15:08:02 Oh so you drag the battery menu down Jun 17 15:08:03 ? Jun 17 15:08:07 i still dont get it Jun 17 15:08:08 lol Jun 17 15:08:16 unless someone invents a capacitive stylus. Jun 17 15:08:29 atlanta, yeah, you drag the batter menu down Jun 17 15:08:36 just like you drag the launcher up from the bottom Jun 17 15:08:36 Yes, You drag from the TOP OF THE PRE into the screen THROUGH the battery and the menu comes down. Jun 17 15:08:46 Ditto the APPLICATION menu in the upper right corner. Jun 17 15:08:53 BUT IT DOESN'T WORK FOR ME. Jun 17 15:09:14 no need to yell ;) Jun 17 15:09:16 ohhh ok Jun 17 15:09:17 calm down Jun 17 15:09:24 calm Jun 17 15:09:28 lol internet people take CAPS so personally Jun 17 15:09:29 lmfao Jun 17 15:09:30 breath -- breath...... Jun 17 15:09:41 haha Jun 17 15:10:11 rick__, first thing first Jun 17 15:10:23 yes???? Jun 17 15:10:32 you need to make sure you copied the full lines, vim on the pre doesn't word wrap so you need to expand or scroll over enough to copy the full lines Jun 17 15:10:45 use nano Jun 17 15:10:48 problem solved Jun 17 15:10:58 man, real life people take SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS SO PERSONALLY Jun 17 15:10:58 second you need to put them into another editor and remove all preceeding whitespace, then modify the lines according to the instructions in the wiki Jun 17 15:11:00 using nano, in a 200 character wide window. Can see full lines. Jun 17 15:11:03 has anyone found a way to enter console commands directly from the pre? Jun 17 15:11:17 rick__, then repaste into nano or vim Jun 17 15:11:19 then save Jun 17 15:11:21 then reboot Jun 17 15:11:29 uh.... _preceeding_ whitespace? Jun 17 15:11:34 not INTERNAL whitespace? Jun 17 15:11:56 @job59 webshell Jun 17 15:11:58 as of now Jun 17 15:12:45 psykoz: tried enabling line wrapping? :set wrap Jun 17 15:13:37 (or add set wrap to your .vimrc file) Jun 17 15:13:55 (..after confirming it works) Jun 17 15:14:01 ah gmail updated its contact features :P Jun 17 15:14:36 DNIc: what did that change Jun 17 15:14:45 added birthday field and website field Jun 17 15:15:02 nebula: yeah confirmed that TuSSH to localhost, 127.0.0.1, or eth0 IP address doesn't work. Can ssh to remote box and then ssh back into ppp0 interface oh. Jun 17 15:15:32 nebula: might just be some weirdness with dropbear or alternative ports, will try against openssh running on port 22 on the pre later. Jun 17 15:15:57 can you use tussh into the ppp0 ip? Jun 17 15:16:12 (bypassing the remote box) Jun 17 15:16:45 djbclark, did you add an entry in iptables to allow incoming request for ssh port 22? Jun 17 15:17:15 @Hamzifer make sure iptables are blocking it Jun 17 15:17:21 and you are allowing through ppp0 Jun 17 15:17:34 hemna: I haven't started to set that up at all yet; currently I just have dropbear running on 222 on both ppp0 and eth0 (with firewall rules modified to allow access to 222 on both interfaces) Jun 17 15:17:35 atlanta: i'm not doing anything, please, read again. Jun 17 15:17:36 djbclark: weird :/ Jun 17 15:18:11 djbclark, ok it should work. it works for me Jun 17 15:18:21 both ppp0 and eth0 Jun 17 15:18:53 no im just say you can just gotta allow through Jun 17 15:18:54 ip table Jun 17 15:19:06 psykoz -- deleting the _preceeding_ whitespace causes the bar to go all-white. Jun 17 15:19:11 no menus at all Jun 17 15:20:33 hey everyone Jun 17 15:21:01 How to I upload a picture for the search-.png from the computer to the /image directory? Jun 17 15:21:50 Have disabling ota updates been achieved yet? Jun 17 15:21:50 @joesmith wsup Jun 17 15:22:03 why they are lovely Jun 17 15:22:03 lol Jun 17 15:22:40 what if palm goes all nasty on us? and pulls an apple with the updates? Jun 17 15:22:48 hehe Jun 17 15:22:53 not a question of what if Jun 17 15:22:56 it's a question of when :) Jun 17 15:22:59 apple didnt stop the pre from working Jun 17 15:23:03 and most likely wont Jun 17 15:23:07 and palm needs us Jun 17 15:23:09 believe me Jun 17 15:23:14 they would have already pulled the plug Jun 17 15:23:20 nah Jun 17 15:23:27 they want all the good news behind it Jun 17 15:23:35 you don't anger your customers until you have them Jun 17 15:23:36 heh Jun 17 15:23:43 the volume of sales is still fairly low I suppose Jun 17 15:23:47 believe me they won't Jun 17 15:24:01 We make or break this device Jun 17 15:24:03 hemna: you are saying TuSSH to ppp0 or eth0 IP addresses works for you? Jun 17 15:24:20 if they do I bet someone will counter them Jun 17 15:24:25 hemna: hmm maybe I need to set up a firewall rule to allow 127.0.0.1 port 222 or something... Jun 17 15:24:28 they need to take marketshare from both apple *and* rim. they're not going to bite any hands. Jun 17 15:25:09 I'm on my 3rd pre Jun 17 15:25:15 wow Jun 17 15:25:26 what happened? Jun 17 15:25:32 so probably people like us that have had issues are eating at their supply Jun 17 15:25:35 hehe Jun 17 15:25:43 7 stuck pixels in the first one which I should have kept Jun 17 15:26:17 since the 2nd I got had 5 stuck pixels, an almost centered dead pixel, bad battery door, and noise/static in the speaker Jun 17 15:26:31 this 3rd one only has 3 stuck pixels Jun 17 15:26:34 no other issues Jun 17 15:26:38 so I am happy hehe Jun 17 15:26:42 webos rocks Jun 17 15:26:46 the pre kinda doesn't :) Jun 17 15:26:48 djbclark: that directfb option didn't make the keyboard work Jun 17 15:26:49 sharp ass keyboard Jun 17 15:26:54 * jwm grumbles like an old person Jun 17 15:27:24 damn it I need to restart Jun 17 15:27:28 bbs Jun 17 15:27:44 wierd Jun 17 15:27:49 stuck pixels Jun 17 15:27:54 you must be a lucky guy Jun 17 15:27:55 lol Jun 17 15:27:59 hehe Jun 17 15:28:05 nah Jun 17 15:28:11 there are tons of people with them Jun 17 15:28:17 djbclark: by default the option is "linux-input-grab". The documentation states "Grab Linux Input devices. When a device is grabbed only DirectFB will receive events from it. The default is to grab." Jun 17 15:28:17 you probably have some Jun 17 15:28:23 look at your boot screen real close Jun 17 15:28:58 How do I move a picture for the search-.png from the computer to the /image directory on the pre? i'm connected through putty Jun 17 15:29:11 nebula: so I thought you said before that both keyboard and mouse were working in directvnc after you used the option I doc'ed; what did you mean when you said it works? Jun 17 15:30:37 i most likely worded it wrong, it makes no difference Jun 17 15:31:04 since the option is there to begin with, and adding a no- in front of it would technically disable the grab, according to the documentation Jun 17 15:31:36 the mouse will never work with the compile options i used, since the mouse support was removed Jun 17 15:32:00 unless the touchscreen is somehow bound to a /dev/$object Jun 17 15:33:12 hello please Jun 17 15:33:24 sup Jun 17 15:33:33 djbclark: plus, directvnc: unrecognized option '--dfb:no-linux-input-grab' Jun 17 15:33:46 that would need to be set in directfbrc, anyways Jun 17 15:34:30 are pms recorded in here too? Jun 17 15:34:31 Does anyone offhand know where the notification icons are stored? Jun 17 15:34:41 joesmith: no Jun 17 15:35:13 Well.... I've mucked it up. now I have no menus at all. I'll go find the original file from the download. Jun 17 15:35:16 Arrrghh. Jun 17 15:35:18 so they are indeed private? Jun 17 15:35:31 rick, noooo thats the closest part Jun 17 15:35:35 lol Jun 17 15:36:05 try just replacing the mojo-tap with drag-start events Jun 17 15:36:14 and if that works then try putting taps back in Jun 17 15:38:40 damn it I cant get into the other chatroom.... AURRRRGH!!! Jun 17 15:38:42 ok, I had just a white bar across the top instead of the bar display. No content at all, a plain white bar. Jun 17 15:38:54 And by golly, chaning tap to drag didn't change that. Jun 17 15:38:56 nebula: arg k so I'll go revert the wiki... Jun 17 15:39:23 still got a white bar with no menus at all Jun 17 15:39:41 And by golly, chaning tap to drag didn't change that. Jun 17 15:39:44 djbclark: all set Jun 17 15:39:49 nebula: oh looks like you beat me to it Jun 17 15:39:52 :) Jun 17 15:40:06 yeah i was reading through it, might as well have Jun 17 15:40:18 nebula: I think mouse probably is available via /dev/input/something, but haven't confirmed. Jun 17 15:40:22 Rick__, did you take out the spaces before the start of the code? Jun 17 15:40:46 djbclark: prolly /dev/touchscreen Jun 17 15:41:14 for some reason funky spacing screws it up dont know why Jun 17 15:41:19 there were two tabs in front of Mojo.Event.listen.... I have tried it WITH and WITHOUT those two tabs. Jun 17 15:41:23 might be worth making a symbolic link from input -> touchscreen ? Jun 17 15:41:33 wonder if that would break stuff Jun 17 15:41:58 can someone possibly send me the four-lines that actually work for them? Jun 17 15:42:29 or a working bar-assistant.js since I've screwed up this one? Jun 17 15:42:33 and forgot to cp it first Jun 17 15:42:42 nebula: for directfb to work nicely I think some hacking will be in order (eg to get gestures and sticky shift etc keys to work) Jun 17 15:42:55 yikes, gestures! Jun 17 15:43:10 thats beyond my realm of experience Jun 17 15:43:12 can someone tell me how to restart the pre through the command line? Jun 17 15:43:16 Rick__, I would but no access to my Pre at work Jun 17 15:44:00 DSouljah: I just type "reboot" from the terminal or SSH Jun 17 15:44:41 thank schrade just found it! Jun 17 15:45:57 is there a reason no one is posting diffs, or mod'ed files? Jun 17 15:47:40 we're not posting mod'ed files because those files are copyrighted by palm Jun 17 15:47:54 I'm not sure what the consesus is on diffs Jun 17 15:48:40 afaik, there's a question of whether or not contextual diffs are infringing on copyright Jun 17 15:49:38 ok. Well, I'll recover the original from the rootfs tar.... Jun 17 16:06:23 ok, NOW I have a problem. Since bar-assistant isn't working, the system isn't asking me if I want to go into usb device mode.... Jun 17 16:09:41 is there an ftp client on this thing? Jun 17 16:09:50 not by default Jun 17 16:10:16 ipkg-opt install what? Jun 17 16:12:59 well, the touchscreen is /dev/touchscreen or /dev/ts Jun 17 16:13:10 anyone got a sec? Jun 17 16:13:28 60 per minute Jun 17 16:13:58 No connection could be made because the target machine actively refused it --- repeated error after turning off all firewalls, virus software, UAC, and rebooting windows...any ideas how to get into this thing? Jun 17 16:14:28 lol rick Jun 17 16:15:03 how are you trying to get into it? Jun 17 16:15:10 are you in the process of rooting it? Jun 17 16:15:38 yes trying to root it. following the wiki. Jun 17 16:15:50 ok, did talk.py run normally? Jun 17 16:16:02 in other words, without errors? Jun 17 16:16:28 no. it gives the above error. also, ran from python. couldn't run from terminal (says python is an invalid command)...but ran from python and got that error Jun 17 16:16:36 so no...not normal Jun 17 16:16:39 ok Jun 17 16:16:48 you have python 2.6 installed on your windows box? Jun 17 16:16:59 2.6.2 Jun 17 16:17:05 what directory is it in? Jun 17 16:17:17 default installation directory. lemme check Jun 17 16:17:43 C:\Python26 Jun 17 16:17:58 ok, and you are at a command window in the directory where talk.py is? Jun 17 16:18:19 i opened terminal and cd'd into it that directory yes Jun 17 16:18:42 ok and the pre is plugged into this computers USB port, and Developer mode is set on? Jun 17 16:19:01 yes. plugged in, charging, and dev mode is on Jun 17 16:19:24 ok, c:\python26\python talk.py Jun 17 16:20:00 no connection could be made because the target machine actively refused it Jun 17 16:20:19 then it seems unlikly that developer mode is actually on. Jun 17 16:20:29 does the novacom device show up in device manager? Jun 17 16:20:52 did you install the novacom device drivers onto the windows machine? Jun 17 16:21:03 using the msi? Jun 17 16:21:08 yes it shows up but it has a yellow asterisk Jun 17 16:21:27 i installed the X86 version. 64 bit windows though...difference? Jun 17 16:21:36 most likely Jun 17 16:21:47 well, /bin/hidd is what grabs /dev/touchscreen if anyone cares :) Jun 17 16:21:49 try until it says its installed Jun 17 16:21:54 /usr/bin/hidd -v -f /etc/hidd/HidPlugins.xml --output-syslog Jun 17 16:22:01 after i stopped that i could cat /dev/touchscreen Jun 17 16:22:07 big difference. Jun 17 16:22:14 temperamentalman: what version of windows? Jun 17 16:22:19 ok...install the other then? Jun 17 16:22:20 32 bit usb drivers don't work on 64 bit windows Jun 17 16:22:22 vista home prem Jun 17 16:22:31 lol ok rick...installing the 64 bit one now. Jun 17 16:24:06 said it installed that time Jun 17 16:24:20 still refused connection Jun 17 16:25:35 ok....64 bit driver is installed. turning off dev mode, rebooting pre...turning oN dev mode, rebooting and connecting.. Jun 17 16:25:38 reboot windows. check that exclamation point goes away Jun 17 16:26:13 the exclamation point went away when i installed the 64 bit and plugged the pre in. says working fine. still reboot windows? Jun 17 16:27:13 na Jun 17 16:27:46 ok pre is rebooting the first time. just turned dev mode off. Jun 17 16:28:20 just turned back on...rebooting Jun 17 16:28:23 the pre Jun 17 16:30:18 Is it just me or does it look like Tech Cunch just plain hates the Pre? Jun 17 16:30:36 ok plugged in...running talk.py again Jun 17 16:30:46 same thing Jun 17 16:30:50 refused connection Jun 17 16:31:01 whats rong temper Jun 17 16:31:07 can't root Jun 17 16:31:15 ok what os are u useing Jun 17 16:31:27 trying to run talk.py ... keep getting connection refused Jun 17 16:31:33 win 7 Jun 17 16:31:40 it doe snot work in windows 7 Jun 17 16:31:40 YeaH I SPENT 6 HOURS YESTERDAY DOING THAT Jun 17 16:31:47 OH THEIRS YOUR PROBLEM Jun 17 16:31:52 im on 7 Jun 17 16:31:52 LMAO Jun 17 16:31:59 great Jun 17 16:32:01 and i coudlent do it withg 7 Jun 17 16:32:01 ya i tired it and i had the same problem Jun 17 16:32:05 the service never installs Jun 17 16:32:16 ok...wife has vista home premium...will that work? Jun 17 16:32:17 morning Jun 17 16:32:20 ya Jun 17 16:32:22 for sure Jun 17 16:32:37 ok...lemme install python and stuff on hers lol...that outta piss her off Jun 17 16:32:40 you can do 1 of 3 things dual boot xp ,use dif os , or run xp virtualy Jun 17 16:32:54 does anyone have a list of all the orange key + sym + ? functions? Jun 17 16:32:57 haha temper she probly wont even know what your doing ahahah Jun 17 16:32:58 how do i 12.Establish a telnet session to that IP address (i.e., C:\ telnet x.x.x.x ? Jun 17 16:33:00 nah...i'll just use her desktop!!! lol Jun 17 16:33:03 this is where i am stock Jun 17 16:33:09 ? Jun 17 16:33:10 r is reboot, p is take screenshot, others? Jun 17 16:33:14 true sloppy......ok brb folks THANKS!!!!!!!!! Jun 17 16:33:20 np temper Jun 17 16:34:31 anybody ? Jun 17 16:34:44 whats rong jason Jun 17 16:35:04 OK so are u runnign windows Jun 17 16:35:11 vista Jun 17 16:35:13 JaSon: get putty, you can use that for telnet Jun 17 16:35:22 ok thats good have you downloaded putty.exe Jun 17 16:35:24 home edition Jun 17 16:35:43 http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html Jun 17 16:36:18 Get putty.exe wich is a telenet client and use the ipadress your pre has from your router ex:192.168.1.4 Jun 17 16:36:20 thanks sloppy Jun 17 16:36:32 Np jason Jun 17 16:36:47 i just want to change my dialer background to blak i hate the green Jun 17 16:38:08 oh ok i did that yesterday Jun 17 16:38:19 did u do all the steps for ssh ? Jun 17 16:38:20 ok got putty Jun 17 16:38:37 no i am on step 12 Jun 17 16:38:47 ok hold on Jun 17 16:39:38 Did you do ssh instead of dropbear Jun 17 16:39:50 none Jun 17 16:40:04 i am at the castle log in Jun 17 16:40:14 Jason: did you do 9a or 9b Jun 17 16:40:22 I did openssh instead of dropbear Jun 17 16:40:25 never used dropbear Jun 17 16:40:26 hehe Jun 17 16:40:46 JaSon: yeah, I don't like the green either Jun 17 16:40:59 i used ssh Jun 17 16:41:16 i am here Jun 17 16:41:17 http://predev.wikidot.com/rooting Jun 17 16:41:31 oh so you havent even rooted yet? Jun 17 16:42:28 i am on step 12 Jun 17 16:42:33 Jason: did you run talk.py yet? Jun 17 16:42:51 sloppyjm: that's why he needs a telnet client, he's getting there. Let's just let him ask questions when he has them? Jun 17 16:43:04 ok Jun 17 16:43:31 Jason: R you good for now with the telenet client Jun 17 16:43:34 thansk for the help guys Jun 17 16:43:38 yeh i got it \ Jun 17 16:43:41 np jason Jun 17 16:43:49 im going to the next step Jun 17 16:44:03 Note: Remember to secure the network access once finished. See Installing dropbear/openSSH via ipkg-opt. Jun 17 16:44:55 Once you login via telenet you will want to follow theis steps and instal ssh http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 17 16:45:30 does anybody know a way to package custom apps, and distribute it to a non-rooted pre? Jun 17 16:45:32 ok i got putty down Jun 17 16:45:48 i typed in the ip address and hit the telnet connection option Jun 17 16:46:26 castle log in: ? Jun 17 16:46:27 root? Jun 17 16:46:35 Yes you will login as root Jun 17 16:46:38 no pasword Jun 17 16:47:04 root@castle:/var/home/root# Jun 17 16:47:04 thats what i got Jun 17 16:47:15 yup now just follow the tutoria Jun 17 16:47:45 rootfs_open -w Jun 17 16:47:48 mkdir /var/opt Jun 17 16:47:48 mkdir /opt Jun 17 16:47:48 mount -o bind /var/opt /opt Jun 17 16:47:48 echo '/var/opt /opt bind defaults,bind 0 0' >>/etc/fstab Jun 17 16:47:57 k brb Jun 17 16:48:21 <__Temper__> ok looks like that actually ran that time lol Jun 17 16:48:44 <__Temper__> all i'm trying to do right now is have the option to add pages in the launcher. Jun 17 16:51:13 <__Temper__> anyone here? lol Jun 17 16:51:27 * drnull wonders what is he talking about? oh... temperamentalman=__Temper__ got it Jun 17 16:52:01 root@castle:/var/home/root# rootfs_open -w Jun 17 16:52:02 root@castle:/var/home/root# mkdir/ var/opt Jun 17 16:52:02 ^[[A-sh: mkdir/: not found Jun 17 16:52:02 root@castle:/var/home/root# mkdir/ var/opt Jun 17 16:52:02 i got lost with the rootfs_open -w Jun 17 16:52:15 __Temper__: are you having problems with the walkthrough? Jun 17 16:52:45 JaSon: no, that was fine, you're just missing a space between mkdir and the / Jun 17 16:53:39 so i've been reading pre news and I'm confused, what is all this BS over this doc engadget found? ie the automatic update thing... Jun 17 16:54:04 ugh now my old laptop shuts down after the apple logo wtf Jun 17 16:54:13 engadget is crap Jun 17 16:54:16 has anyone thought anyone this through from a technical/os perspective and or actually looked at say com.palm.app.updates????? Jun 17 16:54:41 someone got some other Palm updater program or other evilness from Palm? Jun 17 16:54:50 ie i do not see what all the hype is about.... Jun 17 16:56:15 well, I don't know what I did, but I hosed it. Jun 17 16:57:04 I put all the js back in the controllers folder exactly as it was supposed to be, and I still got no menus, and the power button doesn't power cycle any more. Jun 17 16:57:05 if Palm releases an update, will you have to root the phone again? Jun 17 16:57:15 to even suggest that palm will be ablee to force an update on us is ridiculous Jun 17 16:57:16 bdumm: what is this update nonsense you speak of? Jun 17 16:57:29 I think I'm going to have to re-image the phone. Jun 17 16:57:31 and i think they said in #webos that they wouldnt force updates Jun 17 16:57:37 i think i have to reimage my phone too Jun 17 16:57:41 i butchered performance Jun 17 16:57:53 "reimage"? ARe you going to boot up clonezilla to save the old one? lol Jun 17 16:58:06 no Jun 17 16:58:20 I'm going to run the webosdoctor, and tell it "make it didn't happen." Jun 17 16:58:23 JaSon: __Temper__: would you two (and anybody else that needs help or wants to help folks on the walkthough) like to go over to #preguides as well so your problems don't get lost in all the internals chatter? Jun 17 16:58:24 ChinnoDog, many of the pre websites(engadget in particular) is talking about the Palm update to come and how it may say lock all of us out Jun 17 16:59:12 Rick__: is there a way to back up the current image first? Jun 17 16:59:13 and in terms of the fixed schedule, i have yet to find it in code, anyone know where it is? Jun 17 16:59:38 bdumm: seems like a bad idea to lock out the people that will become the developer community Jun 17 16:59:39 --- sure. I -could- I'm just not going to. I made so few changes that it's not worth it. Jun 17 16:59:59 ChinnoDog, sure sure, i'm not talking the politics of it all, i want the actual code/details Jun 17 17:00:14 and there is none that I can find so far, just speculation from some internal document Jun 17 17:00:26 I am anxiously awaiting the SDK Jun 17 17:00:27 anyone know where this forced updater code is? Jun 17 17:00:32 that won't stop me from poking around though Jun 17 17:00:36 bdumm: i think thats a great idea, or else this channel will be endless "help be root my pre" chat Jun 17 17:00:50 com.palm.app.updates doesn't seem to have it Jun 17 17:01:00 njk, its been that for days now Jun 17 17:01:04 or other crap :) Jun 17 17:01:39 folks are in #preguides to help with rooting the pre, go there :) Jun 17 17:02:02 has anyone written a openvpn client howto yet? if not, i got it working on mine and could write one up Jun 17 17:02:12 pretty easy really Jun 17 17:02:16 if anyone finds this forced updater code, please pm me thx Jun 17 17:02:43 I'm pretty sure we don't actually force updates Jun 17 17:02:59 We just fill them with delicious things so you want to install them Jun 17 17:03:02 chrisa, thx, i didn't see anything, is app.updates the updater? Jun 17 17:03:09 * bdumm grins Jun 17 17:03:15 I have no idea Jun 17 17:03:20 k Jun 17 17:03:26 thx again Jun 17 17:04:03 chrisa: "we"? Do you work for Palm? Jun 17 17:04:20 ChinnoDog, yes Jun 17 17:04:23 chris is palm Jun 17 17:04:28 Hey would annyone know how to add a signature to txts Jun 17 17:04:40 where is the 3. Get the ipkg-opt package from the Optware package feed? Jun 17 17:04:41 i dont think oyu can Jun 17 17:04:52 you could modify the messaging Jun 17 17:05:06 njk: please do! Jun 17 17:05:53 How would i mod the messaging Jun 17 17:06:15 learn javascript sloppyjm Jun 17 17:06:16 >.> Jun 17 17:06:23 ahhaha tilton Jun 17 17:06:39 See this is why I need my contract to be a month earlier Jun 17 17:06:47 so i can get a pre and make these mods Jun 17 17:06:48 :/ Jun 17 17:07:06 do u have to wait 1 more month tilton Jun 17 17:07:22 like 44 days for my one year into contract mark Jun 17 17:07:26 then I can upgrade Jun 17 17:07:27 XD Jun 17 17:07:39 hum i got my upgrade b4 a year Jun 17 17:08:02 JaSon: the step says to change to the tmp directory, and then run the wget command to download it. Are you getting errors? Jun 17 17:08:03 Tilton53, just keep reading whats out there, and go through the webos image on the net, 44~ days will fly by hopefully... Jun 17 17:08:20 Tilton53: often if you're nearing the end of your contract, you can opt to renew for another 18-24 months and get your new handset in advance of your year being up Jun 17 17:08:32 I tried Jun 17 17:08:34 :/ Jun 17 17:08:42 sprint said no Jun 17 17:08:48 I got errors when I ran the wget, it took three tries before it worked.... Jun 17 17:08:56 Sprint almost didint let me have my phone Jun 17 17:08:57 Since I am not at a year yet on this handset Jun 17 17:09:06 I have to wait until the year mark Jun 17 17:09:10 d'oh Jun 17 17:09:13 :p Jun 17 17:09:23 I didn't have a choice getting my blackberry Jun 17 17:09:27 I needed a new phone Jun 17 17:09:46 I got a Touch Pro from Sprint in December 08. New contract. I got new account pricing on my Pre last week. I didn't ask questions. Jun 17 17:09:47 My old one that I had for 3 yrs got hit by an aircraft container while I was working Jun 17 17:09:50 crushed it Jun 17 17:09:56 tilton could my upgrade b because im on a busines acc Jun 17 17:10:06 sloppy Jun 17 17:10:32 this is where i am stuck now Jun 17 17:10:44 <__Temper__> how to change privileges on a file in the pre? making changes and says file is read only Jun 17 17:11:03 Temper make sure you are root Jun 17 17:11:06 <__Temper__> so none of the changes stick Jun 17 17:11:06 then Jun 17 17:11:14 did bpadalino and shinali have any success in compiling codesourcery for mac? Jun 17 17:11:24 root@castle:/var/home/root# cd /tmp Jun 17 17:11:24 root@castle:/tmp# wget http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/ipkg-opt_0.99.163-10_arm.ipk Jun 17 17:11:26 My contract came last month just in time for the pre. Jun 17 17:11:34 still working on it ... i've got a strange error i'm working on now Jun 17 17:11:45 <__Temper__> yeah im in as root Tilton Jun 17 17:12:07 remount the filesystem rw Jun 17 17:12:27 did you do "rootfs_open -w Jun 17 17:12:28 " Jun 17 17:12:28 >.> Jun 17 17:13:16 <__Temper__> so just enter "rootfs_open -w" as root on command line? Jun 17 17:14:13 yes, you do that in order to open up the file system so that it can be read-write instead of read-only Jun 17 17:14:25 <__Temper__> ok...lemme try this again lol Jun 17 17:14:33 <__Temper__> gotta learn linux/unix Jun 17 17:15:32 ok, ran webosdr jar and said yes yes, and it comes to "checking system." Anyone else done this already? Jun 17 17:17:08 __Temper__: do you mind if we take this walkthrough help over to #preguides so it doesn't get lost in the internals chatter? Jun 17 17:20:28 bpadalino: I tried the same thing about a year ago, I remember leaving that idea after encountering a strange error, but don't remember the details, what is the problem you are seeing? Jun 17 17:21:19 some of the linux header file has gcc giving me an error about static __inline__ __attribute_const__ __u32 Jun 17 17:21:30 complaining about the __attribute_const__ before the __u32 Jun 17 17:21:39 but i am pretty sure i just need the stupid headers for glibc Jun 17 17:21:53 since we're ripping the lib from the pre rootfs Jun 17 17:23:34 yeah i managed to butcher performance on my pre Jun 17 17:23:40 cant wait to get home to compare it to my gf's pristine pre Jun 17 17:24:27 blau-mikeDG: what did you do that is killing it? Jun 17 17:24:40 i dont know for sure Jun 17 17:24:46 i somehow screwed up dropbear Jun 17 17:24:52 and wound up reinstalling it a different way Jun 17 17:25:09 and i have a 960x960 image as my ripple effect Jun 17 17:27:42 bpadalino: I was actually trying to compile the whole package myself by modifying the original codesourcery script, gave up after a few iterations, didn't really need it that much :) I was just curious, but seems you are taking a slightly different path Jun 17 17:28:05 well - i tried just looking at the script and being intelligent Jun 17 17:28:10 but it was just too much Jun 17 17:28:19 so i am now doing what you said you did - modifying their script Jun 17 17:28:28 and just basically building binutils, gcc and the glibc headers Jun 17 17:28:40 which should be enough to get us to link against the libs they have Jun 17 17:29:32 the script now gets through binutils, and gcc .. but was sotpping on building glibc .. so i said "Wtf - why am i doing that - i have a perfectly fine glibc!" Jun 17 17:30:32 i really am not a glibc or gnu expert when it comes to bootstrapping glibc or gcc or even doing cross compilation environments.. it's pretty new Jun 17 17:35:40 bpadalino: Have you put anything on the wiki yet? Or what's your latest pastebin? Jun 17 17:37:13 right now i am re-running the script .. once i get something that installs, i'll put something new up in git Jun 17 17:52:24 bpadalino watch yourself then, you'll get bit by binutils/glibc/gcc combos.... Jun 17 17:52:38 don't just grab the latest greatest and expect fireworks... Jun 17 17:53:24 i think he's trying cs08q1 on mac, right? Jun 17 17:54:07 eno, not sure, just going off his "not an expert" statement.... Jun 17 17:54:18 unfortunately neither OE nor crosstool-ng supports mac yet Jun 17 17:54:56 oh unfortunate... use linux :) Jun 17 17:55:05 _temper_ -- see private chat update Jun 17 17:56:20 hmmm if i added a webpage to the launcher how do i remove it? Jun 17 17:56:29 openwrt supports build on mac os x, not sure about the status of glibc toolchain Jun 17 17:56:40 The arm-gnueabi in macports is using EABI 5, the libs on the Pre are using EABI 4 Jun 17 17:58:00 well crudpuppies. Jun 17 17:58:28 If bar-assistant doesn't run, then the USB can't do getStageProxy("usb-dashboard") Jun 17 17:58:47 so, hosing bar-assistant hoses usb connectivity, so webosDr can't restore. Jun 17 17:58:51 jblebrun: or is it the other way around? Jun 17 17:59:10 DNIC - use the orange button and tap to remove Jun 17 17:59:23 objdump shows cs08q1armel produced binaries Version5 EABI Jun 17 17:59:34 so i finally got around to backing up my laptop Jun 17 17:59:46 thx bdumm, just found that out as you typed it Jun 17 17:59:47 and i put everything on my pre, and then the pre freaks out right when i finish Jun 17 17:59:47 ugh Jun 17 17:59:54 eno, opposite of what jblebrun said Jun 17 17:59:58 Yeah Jun 17 17:59:59 Sorry Jun 17 18:00:00 bar-assistant also contains the code controlling the power button. Jun 17 18:00:10 is there a orange button + sym + ??? doc/wiki entry anywhere? Jun 17 18:00:11 macports has a 2005 release of codesourcery Jun 17 18:00:16 but they're using a 2007 release Jun 17 18:00:16 so, power will recall from screen out, but wont turn off. Jun 17 18:02:27 202 Jun 17 18:02:53 bpadalino: i may also give it a try building cs08q1 on mac this coming weekend Jun 17 18:02:56 * bdumm installed gcc.... Jun 17 18:03:06 heyo - it may have kind of somewhat finished ? Jun 17 18:03:27 lol what are you building bpadalino? Jun 17 18:03:44 bdumm: cross toolchain Jun 17 18:03:49 yeah, cross Jun 17 18:03:52 on my mac Jun 17 18:03:57 you linux and windows guys get the chain easy Jun 17 18:03:58 :( Jun 17 18:03:58 yea but what package? Jun 17 18:04:13 binutils and gcc - and glibc and linux headers Jun 17 18:04:30 bdumm: what you've just installed is a native toolchain, it was built using a cross toolchain Jun 17 18:05:48 I am an idiot. If there is a / character at the top of a js file (don't ask me how it got there) it doesn't work. Jun 17 18:06:07 eno, thx Jun 17 18:06:10 Blech. that was a waste of an hour and a half. Jun 17 18:07:18 yeah the pre keeps shitting itself Jun 17 18:07:24 anyone else dump a lot off files on the pre? Jun 17 18:08:44 ohh, does this mean that someone got qemu working in ox? Jun 17 18:08:47 osx, even Jun 17 18:11:32 oh halleluja. Drag menus now works. -- and I didn't have to re-image. This thing can make a grown man feel like an idiot. Jun 17 18:12:30 Rick__: so what was the problem in bar-assistant? Jun 17 18:12:45 hemna, any new camera progress? Jun 17 18:13:06 three problems. 1) Somehow, God alone knows how, a /character got insertedas the first character in bar-assistant. Jun 17 18:13:28 2) it's drag-start not just drag (Apparently I can not read) Jun 17 18:13:52 3) I had a copy of bar-assistant higher up the search chain somewhere that was being found even after I fixed it. I had to rm that. Jun 17 18:13:54 lol Jun 17 18:14:42 so, now I have multiple launch pages, drag menus, ncftp, nano, and I'm good to go with my real exploration. Jun 17 18:15:11 I am suprized that no one has been posting anything about getting webos shell icons added and getting non SDK js apps running. Jun 17 18:15:25 web os shell icons? Jun 17 18:15:26 But that's where _I_ am going.... Jun 17 18:15:35 Rick__, been too much noise otherwise... Jun 17 18:15:38 uh, I want to add somehting to launcher. Jun 17 18:15:44 Rick__: i can help if you have a plan Jun 17 18:15:46 bdumm, still hacking away :) Jun 17 18:16:19 hemna, did you read the book, ie chap 8 and all the camera stuffs? Jun 17 18:16:36 heh no, I don't have the book :( Jun 17 18:16:48 there is some of that info on umm weboshelp.net or whatever it is called Jun 17 18:16:56 it could be helpful... Jun 17 18:17:28 rick: ike what do you want to add? Jun 17 18:17:40 ive been working with some launcher and unversal search stuff Jun 17 18:17:53 I wasn't sure how helpful the book was going to be since the sdk isn't out Jun 17 18:18:02 blau-mikeDG: i think the end goal would be able to install our own custom hello world.js app Jun 17 18:18:08 for me atleast Jun 17 18:18:31 oh you can easily Jun 17 18:18:37 for now, I want to add any home.html. A static html page would do for me now. But the predevwiki doesn't seem to have any of the file-structure info for that. Jun 17 18:18:42 i was/am going to write a "intro to mojo" on the wiki... if that's what you guys are talking about. Jun 17 18:18:45 just put the directory into /var/usr/palm/applications or somewhere Jun 17 18:18:46 Once I have that, I can start calling .js files..... Jun 17 18:18:54 (i jumped in mid convo, sorry) Jun 17 18:19:01 it's that 'or somewhere' that throws me Jun 17 18:19:04 Yep Even, that's what I need. Jun 17 18:19:13 if that sdirectory isnt there its somewhere :) Jun 17 18:19:16 so what is the longest uptime anyone has with their pre? Jun 17 18:19:19 my device is being wonky so i cant check Jun 17 18:19:33 trying to moutn the usb drive for the 3rd time without crashing Jun 17 18:19:38 uh, without a reset? Until today, since the moment I bought it. Jun 17 18:19:44 Rick__: I'll have it up either today or tomorrow if no one beats me to it.. I've already developed one mojo program and about to start another. Jun 17 18:19:48 and I was the first out the door in Topeka. Jun 17 18:20:00 I may be on my 4th Pre but I have not seen any software issues affecting uptime Jun 17 18:20:16 EvanPro_: that'd be awesome, what does your app do? Jun 17 18:20:30 OH. that isn't true. Going out of range of my wifi AP killed my EvDO once. That has not happened since though Jun 17 18:20:35 opie_: it posts your gps coords to a URL at a set interval. Jun 17 18:20:52 cool Jun 17 18:20:58 i was working on an app to add stuff to launcher :) Jun 17 18:21:02 and universal search Jun 17 18:21:06 but its a pain to debug so its on hold Jun 17 18:21:20 blau-mikeDG: yeah, debugging is a real bitch right now without the SDK. Jun 17 18:21:33 tail -f /var/log/messages is about it Jun 17 18:22:08 opie_: my app has a serverside element to it too, that tracks my hours at work and stuff based on proximity, and plots me live on google maps via ajax for all my stalkers. Jun 17 18:22:09 tracker. Cool. an app like that is one of the things we want towrite. "Where are my peoples.?" which would use an incoming message to trigger a location post back to a server so that a google maps api web page could have a pin for where each person being tracked is. Jun 17 18:22:31 heh Jun 17 18:22:33 EvanPro_: good stuff, can't wait to check it out Jun 17 18:22:52 Rick__: problem is, google maps TOS limits you to not use data less than 15 minutes old. Jun 17 18:23:15 Rick__: although, they don't technically impose the limitation... it comes down to morals, and how well they police that, I guess. Jun 17 18:23:19 i wish to search email Jun 17 18:23:40 (under synsearch heh) Jun 17 18:23:50 evanpro: so it's like lattitude? Jun 17 18:23:55 huh, never noticed that, but honestly didnt read it all the way through. Jun 17 18:24:05 well, there are other maping api's. Jun 17 18:24:06 oc80z: email search would be fairly easy to search the emails already on the device since i belive it's just sqlite, but it would be different to search like your entire gmail archive... would have to make web service calls. Jun 17 18:24:17 Rick__: I'd like to work on a barcode scanner, sounds like it'd work similar to yourapp Jun 17 18:24:33 universal search for emails seems retarded to me :/ Jun 17 18:24:38 Rick__: yeah, but most of the free ones don't let you use realtime data.. looked into the major ones. There are plenty of paid options though if it's for-profit. Jun 17 18:24:41 yes, you would Evan, but google search service calls are pretty easy. Jun 17 18:25:12 Rick__: yep.. google makes life easy for that kind of stuff. Jun 17 18:25:17 oh, it would be for my vertical-market-clients. "Where are my social workers/nurses/case managers/group home managers. Jun 17 18:26:00 wasn't thinking about it for familes, although an el-cheapo version limited to 5 phones, for families might be fun. and I doubt if google would scream. Jun 17 18:26:05 Rick__: are they going to equip all of those people with webOS phones? :) Jun 17 18:26:10 or, it could be on a 15 minute delay. Jun 17 18:26:22 Evan, they're carrying blackberrys now. Jun 17 18:26:38 Rick__: hmm, true... Jun 17 18:26:45 google lattitude does something similar to this tracking Jun 17 18:26:54 and i think the 15 minute thing is for data from googles server Jun 17 18:26:58 and we're almost done with that version, but I _HATE HOLY HATE WITH ICKY HATRED_ programming in Java. Jun 17 18:27:00 so you arent cacheing shit Jun 17 18:27:09 not for mashing up your data and theirs Jun 17 18:27:53 so did someone get qemu working in OSX or is that info on the wiki not entirely working? Jun 17 18:28:00 Rick__: there's a few problems i ran into with keeping the phone awake to send the gps coords... just a heads up. i think this phone has narcolepsy. Jun 17 18:28:24 yeah, but it wakes on sms recieve..... Jun 17 18:28:31 I'm thinking of this being a polling ap. Jun 17 18:28:43 blau-mikeDG: you might be right. i never even read into it until i was showing off my tracking stuff in a job interview and they were like "oh cool, we were going to do that, until we realized it's against Google's TOS to use realtime data with maps." Jun 17 18:28:51 you hit "find my people" on the web site, it sms's them, and gets the pings back. Jun 17 18:29:17 Rick__: sargun already made a gps polling bash script. Jun 17 18:29:39 we had the same problem on the blackberry. If we kept a background thread going, phone's performance went to hell. Processors just aren't up to it. Jun 17 18:30:06 PLUS, the end-users would disable the thing. So, we tied it to the sms in event, and launched it without a user interface. Jun 17 18:30:26 It would be nice to get all of the un-implemented App/Tweak ideas in one place. Jun 17 18:30:40 http://predev.wikidot.com/tracking Jun 17 18:31:38 good god. Jun 17 18:31:53 Rick__: good stuff, eh? Jun 17 18:32:16 Well...... golly, wrap that up in a nice mojo wrapper, and it's like _all_ the palm side of the project. Jun 17 18:32:37 jblebrun: i agree, unfortunately, everyone gets greedy with app ideas and tries to make them private, for profit, or ad-revenue based.. so it's tough to really promote and kind of quality group or open source development on mobile apps in my experience. Jun 17 18:33:25 EvanPro: There've been plenty of ideas floating around this room. I was just thinking of making an idea-dump wiki page. Jun 17 18:34:19 Then, if people start working on things, they can make a note of it there. It might help to prevent duplicate effort, too. Jun 17 18:34:30 jblebrun: yeah, that's true. Jun 17 18:34:40 A lot of the ideas won't be profitable anyway, if they apply to tweaking stock apps. Jun 17 18:34:42 Rick__: unfortunately, we haven't bridged the gap between the terminal / bash and mojo yet. Jun 17 18:34:45 Or require rooting the device. Jun 17 18:35:56 jblebrun: yeah, that's why i think it would be cool if we worked on a central, psuedo "Catalog" app that we, as a community try to get into palm's app catalog.. then that will give us a way to get all our other apps / tweaks onto the public's pre's without requiring rooting. Jun 17 18:36:32 cause even if palm is pretty open with their catalog, they won't accept a tweak to open messages in new cards, etc. Jun 17 18:37:01 (of course i could be wrong, of course.. just my assumtion.) Jun 17 18:37:05 EvanPro: It will probably be impossible to do things like stock app mods without rooting the device. Jun 17 18:37:42 jblebrun: not if we have/find a way to access the terminal from mojo. Jun 17 18:38:01 I wonder if you could write a new app referencing the stock app files that will just include more features Jun 17 18:38:29 just like the replacement task and calendar apps on windows mobile take over those functions Jun 17 18:38:42 ChinnoDog: not without hosting the js for the other app somewhere, most likely.. which is copyrighted code. Jun 17 18:39:23 Well, that is kind of what I was asking. Can you reference js on one app from another app? Jun 17 18:39:29 ChinnoDog: mojo does have methods for luanching "scenes" of one app from within another app, but i don't think that would give us the ability we'd need to add functionality, really. Jun 17 18:39:55 evan: how? Jun 17 18:40:03 EvanPro: Ahh, yeah, that's true. Jun 17 18:40:03 you're not referencing the JS, as code really though.. that's the thing.. it just loads a "scene" from the other app on top of your app.. Jun 17 18:40:03 or can you point me into the direction of that? Jun 17 18:40:07 a sample Jun 17 18:40:20 blau-mikeDG: let me find the mojo method.. one sec. Jun 17 18:40:28 If you were going to say, extend the tasks app to include Outlook categories can you just write a new page and include the tasks js as a reference and write some more js for your own app? Jun 17 18:40:51 ChinnoDog: i just want the task app to show a list instead of sticky notes, lol. Jun 17 18:41:11 Not all "improvements" are for everyone :-) Jun 17 18:41:17 ChinnoDog: i think the thing is, they probably give us access to the tasks database, so we can just write our own tasks app. Jun 17 18:41:28 i think the list is a nice look and its functional Jun 17 18:41:44 ChinnoDog: which would make the data the only shared element between the two. Jun 17 18:42:04 EvanPro_: in this case that is probably easier, but in the general case it might be more useful to recycle code from another app already on the device if the app is complex Jun 17 18:42:37 can webos tell difference between click and double click events? Jun 17 18:42:43 blau-mikeDG: see mojo/submissions/175.7/javascripts/cross_app.js Jun 17 18:42:44 opie: yes Jun 17 18:43:04 opie: At least, I think. I've seen references to "tap" and "double-tap" events. Jun 17 18:43:17 ahh, i was wondering.. i'll look for tap Jun 17 18:43:29 mojo-tap Jun 17 18:43:46 opie_: mojo/submissions/175.7/javascripts/gesture.js Jun 17 18:44:06 opie_: although, i'd just include jquery and use their dblclick event :) Jun 17 18:44:23 wheres mojo? Jun 17 18:44:46 blau-mikeDG: uhh i took it out of the root image for easy acces.. hold on, haha. Jun 17 18:45:11 lol thanks Jun 17 18:45:42 my sys is under heavy load otherwise id search Jun 17 18:46:11 test Jun 17 18:46:19 (sorry, last message didn't seem to send) Jun 17 18:46:25 ohh haha.. Jun 17 18:46:43 it's here: //usr/palm/frameworks Jun 17 18:46:50 was it prefixed with / :) Jun 17 18:46:51 Evan. In terms of bridging mojo and shell, isn't the approach that classic took the logical thing to do? Jun 17 18:46:55 forgot i was in irc for a second. Jun 17 18:47:03 Classic installes a browser plugin. Jun 17 18:47:44 could you not, forexample, have a mojo app, which calls a browser plugin object which is a native linux terminal program? Jun 17 18:47:46 Rick__: my assumption is that we'll either need a browser plugin or a dbus-daemon for terminal access from mojo. Jun 17 18:48:07 browser plugin looks to be simpler. Jun 17 18:48:37 Given our current knowledge at the moment, a dbus-daemon would be simpler. Jun 17 18:48:44 HAs anybody tried to make a plugin for the browser? Jun 17 18:49:24 a browser plug would certainly be preferable Jun 17 18:49:30 yes, but would it be simpler to tie into mojo. If we can figure out how to link in a browser plugin, then that becomes the "simplest" solution. Jun 17 18:50:23 exactly what jblebrun... dbus-daemon would be the easiest.. but that would only work for us rooters... we'd need a browser plugin if it were something we were going to release through the app catalog, i'm sure. Jun 17 18:50:57 Rick__: It's going to be hard to compile webOS-compatible browser plugins without having the necessary header files. Jun 17 18:51:07 exactly what jblebrun said* Jun 17 18:51:07 Rick__: We can implement a dbus-based solution today. Jun 17 18:51:28 Does palm provide support for browser plugins, then? and if so, is that the preferred way to do a webos gui with native binary code? Jun 17 18:51:29 right. It's just a bridge until someone figures out the headers. Jun 17 18:51:57 Well, that's how Classic did it. so presumably, the answer is "yes, if you ask nicely." Jun 17 18:52:04 Rick__: although, still no one has made a dbus-daemon yet.. just lots of talk. ;-) Jun 17 18:53:04 EvanPro: Have you found any verified mojo services for communicating via arbitrary dbus channels? Jun 17 18:53:10 presumably, Adobe is working on a pdf and flash plugin.... again,which would be native binary. Jun 17 18:53:14 Rick__: yeah, it may come down to palm asking what you plan on making a browser plugin for, then they give you the say-so... or maybe they'll just support it, flat out.. hard to tell since they're being so secretive still. Jun 17 18:53:40 Rick__: I'm not saying it's not possible. Just that the home-brew community doesn't yet have access to the necessary headers. Jun 17 18:53:59 cool, I was afraid Palm was going to take the original iphone view of high-level-interpreted-code-only, otherwise you're not legit Jun 17 18:54:01 Right ... well, hell the phone's only been out two weeks. Jun 17 18:54:05 jblebrun: well, i've found the calls for communicating with the dbus channels, but i'm unsure if they're just automatically "exposed" to mojo or not, you know? Jun 17 18:54:21 Rick__: Right, and remember how long it was before Apple released a native-code SDK Jun 17 18:54:33 jblebrun: we almost need just a quick sample dbus daemon to see if it's instantly available. Jun 17 18:54:49 EvanPro: Someone could probably hack one up in python Jun 17 18:54:50 how long was it before someone had doom running on an iphone. We're way ahead of where THAT was. Jun 17 18:55:17 yeah, it's a lot more straightforward when we're talking about basically a standard linux handset Jun 17 18:55:19 jblebrun: god, let's hope Palm doesn't pull an Apple on us with the SDK for this thing... webOS is way too exciting to have that kind of a wait. Jun 17 18:55:42 EvanPro: Well, the JS+HTML SDK will probably come out before a native code SDK (just a guess) Jun 17 18:56:19 EvanPro_: Well, you know what the iphone hackers did with their own toolchain, the Pre will be way simpler than objective C mach-o darwin :) Jun 17 18:56:26 They've publicly stated they only intend on issuing native code SDK's to people they approve and that it'll only be a public JS+HTML SDK Jun 17 18:56:27 jblebrun: yeah, i'm almost certain that's how it will play out. Jun 17 18:56:32 objective-C makes my eyes bleed Jun 17 18:56:40 Although it does have some neat characteristics Jun 17 18:56:49 jblebrun: i agree. if they expose a native SDK carelessly, then misbehaving apps could really wreck havoc. just needs to be done right Jun 17 18:57:10 psykoz: oh yeah.. i remeber reading that somewhere but forgot about it until just now. Jun 17 18:57:29 mpd Jun 17 18:57:31 err nod Jun 17 18:57:32 A key difference between this model and the Apple model is that this HTML+JS development environemnt is capable of building real applications, not simply web apps. Jun 17 18:57:37 well, we'll get there eventually with or without an official SDK, the question is how will Palm react? Jun 17 18:57:48 we're mostly going to have to wait on someone leaking the native code SDK or them approve of this actual community getting its hands on it Jun 17 18:57:51 And given the low barrier of entry, Palm is setting themselves up for an explosion of useful applications, once they release an SDK. Jun 17 18:58:06 psykoz: reverse engineering is a third option Jun 17 18:58:21 Given the success and short time-to-completion some people in here have had, without any sort of docs or SDK. Jun 17 18:59:22 jblebrun: exactly.. i built a working mojo app in under 2 days of learning from examples and about 15 minutes of actual coding. Jun 17 19:00:02 Evan, what folder are installed apps under? Jun 17 19:00:06 yeah, mojo is pretty impressive from a learning curve perspective. Jun 17 19:00:18 ya, there is something to be said for developers actually *enjoying* the development environment too :) Jun 17 19:00:37 has anyone got any other news about them putting the EOS/pixie on hold? things have been pretty silent from Palm overall since the pre's release besides appointing Rubinstein as CEO Jun 17 19:01:00 Despite the limitations that come from being a fairly high-level environment, Mojo is a very cool thing. Jun 17 19:02:00 psykoz: I'm getting tired of the media. It's "Pre Launch a Flop" "Pre Launch a Win!" "Palm Doing Poorly" "Palm Doing Awesome" -- totally bipolar. Jun 17 19:02:21 nod Jun 17 19:02:34 considering there are waiting lists everywhere it seems like demand far exceeded expectation Jun 17 19:03:06 demand exceeding production, not necessarily expectation Jun 17 19:03:11 cant trust the media for accurate info, they earn based on creating hype/buzz Jun 17 19:03:43 if you forcast that over time your demand will drop to X units/month, it's really a bad investment to tool up to make 10x units just to take care of release demand (See nintendo wii) Jun 17 19:03:48 well, yeah, exceeding expectation only if you consider that production was orchestrated to match expectation Jun 17 19:04:00 normally you'd produce well in advance of sale to make up for that though... Jun 17 19:04:17 sorry Rick__, one of my employees walked in... still need that path? Jun 17 19:04:30 yes please Jun 17 19:04:54 with technology though, it's a horrible gamble because you may have an unknown bug that needs to be fixed in production, and too late if you've already made 10x and have them sitting boxed on a shelf. very expensive to retrofit Jun 17 19:05:06 like my reception issue.. Jun 17 19:05:12 hey guys did someone mention we figured out how to access gps from CL? Jun 17 19:05:14 * mike_wx wanders off to find his dealer's phone number Jun 17 19:05:17 installed applications: /var/usr/palm/applications Jun 17 19:05:45 what package is scp in? Jun 17 19:05:53 ls -l Jun 17 19:05:59 yeah, found that, but that's not where apps from the appstore went. Jun 17 19:06:22 Since flightinfo, and splashid and pandora aren't in there. Jun 17 19:06:40 jwm: openssh? Jun 17 19:06:46 that's the BUILT IN apps. Jun 17 19:06:55 Tydog: Look for Sargun's tracking shell on the wiki Jun 17 19:07:06 I installed openssh Jun 17 19:07:08 hehe Jun 17 19:07:16 /opt/bin/scp Jun 17 19:07:17 Rick__: No, **/var**/usr/palm/applications :-) Jun 17 19:07:21 outstanding Jun 17 19:07:21 hackery Jun 17 19:07:22 :P Jun 17 19:07:23 ./opt/bin/scp Jun 17 19:07:34 ahhhhhh --- - MUST learn to read Jun 17 19:07:47 Rick__: It's a pretty subtle difference :-) Jun 17 19:08:01 ohhh Jun 17 19:08:04 thanks jblebrun checking Jun 17 19:08:04 nevermind Jun 17 19:08:08 /opt/bin isn't in my path Jun 17 19:08:09 lol Jun 17 19:08:14 11 years with nix Jun 17 19:08:15 Rick__: yeah, that one has caught me up a couple of times, having mild dyslexia. Jun 17 19:08:23 ahhh. Much better. Jun 17 19:08:55 sort of figure that infogedia is about as simple as any of the apps I haveinstalled....... Jun 17 19:09:05 and reasonable for reversing. Jun 17 19:09:24 Rick__: if you're already digging (i can't, i'm at work), a valuable piece would be to figure out how pandora keeps a data connection alive when the phone goes to sleep (or keeps the phone from sleeping altogether) Jun 17 19:09:45 Is there anything more to getting an ap into the launcher than putting a properly configured folder into that folder? Jun 17 19:09:47 funny... streaming music has been enabled this whole time... all you need to do is click a pls link ;) Jun 17 19:09:56 Rick__: start fresh with an index.html, appinfo.json, app/ and app/views and app/assistants Jun 17 19:10:10 (and an icon.png, of course :)) Jun 17 19:10:22 nodnod. Got that. Just checking that thereisn't a database somewhere with a list of them. Just populating a directory is enough. Jun 17 19:10:27 Rick__: make sure to choose a unique application ID, and name your directory the Id name Jun 17 19:10:31 Actually, is that required? Jun 17 19:10:38 I've just been assuming it is... Jun 17 19:10:50 cd com.palm.pandora Jun 17 19:10:55 ooops. Wrong window Jun 17 19:10:56 yep, just populating the db works.. also set removable: true in the appinfo.json. Jun 17 19:11:28 jblebrun++ about the app ID... like i did com.evan.app.gpspost Jun 17 19:11:49 gee, i might as well start on my mojo wiki article... Jun 17 19:11:51 lol Jun 17 19:12:16 Ok, I did another bad thing. Typed "aha... that's Even. into the prompt. Jun 17 19:12:17 EvanPro_, have you been using alarms in your app to wake it up? Jun 17 19:12:22 and now I have > prompts Jun 17 19:12:28 and can't get itto do anything else. Jun 17 19:12:30 Rick__ type another ' Jun 17 19:12:32 What the heck did I fall into Jun 17 19:12:47 thank you Jun 17 19:12:49 You have an unterminated string... it's waiting for you to finish it. Single quotes delimit strings. Jun 17 19:13:05 autoreplace is just a shot it the nutz Jun 17 19:13:17 bdumm: no, haha. i just use a car charge to keep it awake while i'm driving (the only time i track my gps anyways) Jun 17 19:13:26 we must explore everyhting Jun 17 19:13:33 the underground must me smarter than palm Jun 17 19:13:33 Rick__: Whenever you see > it means it's waiting for the end of something. Usually a ' or " Jun 17 19:13:34 !#$ Jun 17 19:13:48 EvanPro_, the book/other howtos talked of alarms in gps tracking apps Jun 17 19:14:38 Has anyone enabled downloads in the browser? Jun 17 19:15:00 bdumm: ahhh, alright. i was going to pick up the book, but others said it was a waste / rough cut... so i figured i'd probably reverse stuff faster anyways. Jun 17 19:15:11 <__Temper__> ok got it....lol Jun 17 19:15:16 EvanPro: The book is pretty disappointing. Jun 17 19:15:29 It did have a few helpful tidbits Jun 17 19:15:34 But you've figured most of them out already. Jun 17 19:15:36 i thought it was decent considering we have nothing Jun 17 19:15:36 i guess, its been a helpful reference to me while i am looking about Jun 17 19:16:03 jblebrun: i haven't heard of anything on browser downloads yet.. i'd really like that since i run a free ringtone site that doesn't even work with the pre (aside from downloading the mp3 and using the usb) Jun 17 19:16:08 mikeDG: Sorta like drinking piss in a desert? :-) Jun 17 19:16:16 ie how apps are laid out, the scenes or cut-scenes or whatever the camera stuffs is, alarms etc Jun 17 19:16:28 peaee out home skillets Jun 17 19:16:29 some infos is elsewhere as well now it seems Jun 17 19:16:53 Maybe I'll start looking into it. I've seen hooks for filetype handlers. Jun 17 19:17:10 And there are tons of "download" scenes and controllers in the browser already Jun 17 19:17:16 lol Jun 17 19:17:23 blau-mike is the fkn man Jun 17 19:17:26 I'm going to get fired Jun 17 19:17:30 yea? Jun 17 19:17:32 sweet Jun 17 19:17:56 jblebrun: yeah... downloading mp3 from MMS would be useful for my purpose, too.. although Sprint PictureMail encodes any mp3's sent down to like 16kbps.. it's horrible. Jun 17 19:18:39 jblebrun: me too.. i've been on here / messing with my pre almost every day at work for going on 2 weeks now... Jun 17 19:20:36 hi shaya Jun 17 19:20:47 welcome to reality. Jun 17 19:21:43 Anyone found an LP8501 datasheet yet? :-) Jun 17 19:24:11 what's that? Jun 17 19:25:16 OK Even, ncftp -R pandora to my local box so I can use my regular tools to look for that. Jun 17 19:26:34 Rick__: cool stuff Jun 17 19:27:05 assuming they use the word sleep or awake somwhere....... Jun 17 19:27:06 some led controller? Jun 17 19:28:02 hmm LP8501_DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE Jun 17 19:28:53 Where would be the most appropriate place to ask questions on the IMAP setup for mail? Jun 17 19:29:25 *2 Jun 17 19:29:29 try #webos Jun 17 19:29:32 jblebrun: i see a product brief Jun 17 19:30:05 roxfan: Yeah, it's cool Jun 17 19:30:10 the driver is in kernel, so i expect it will be included when palm gets around to releases the sources Jun 17 19:31:16 there's something called lp8501-dbg which should somehow let you see and control various stuff Jun 17 19:31:22 jwsh: I usually don't bother trying *2 for in-depth questions :-). Plus, I had tried that already and it was going to be a hassle. roxfan: I will try there. Thanks. Jun 17 19:31:37 roxfan: Even with the drivers, without the datasheet, it won't easy to reprogram Jun 17 19:32:27 schrade: just giving you a hard time, the palm forums might be helpful if nobody on #webos knows Jun 17 19:32:32 how do i get the vnc client onto my pre? Jun 17 19:32:38 Oh, nice, I hadn't seen lp8501-dbg Jun 17 19:32:48 they call device_create_file... so it should be in sysfs i guess Jun 17 19:33:52 roxfan: Yeah, I already wrote a basic leds demo using the /sys/class/leds endpoints Jun 17 19:33:56 But they're pretty basic Jun 17 19:34:11 well, this one has more Jun 17 19:34:13 This lp8501-dbg directory has some much more interesting stuff Jun 17 19:34:36 It looks like I can poke some more registers Jun 17 19:34:37 *plays* Jun 17 19:35:05 yo, xorg here (amazon 3g hack)... i got the webterminal running, need to change blue background... where? Jun 17 19:36:09 webshell that is Jun 17 19:36:10 xorg: You got webshell running, and you can't figure out where it's getting the background???? Jun 17 19:36:37 jblebrun: even with the datasheet I don't think you'll be able to do much unless you either get our driver source, or write your own Jun 17 19:36:48 haven't really look hard Jun 17 19:37:07 I can't get webshell to work... when I run a command, I see the output flash by, but I can't scroll up to see it Jun 17 19:37:19 Writing my own would be a fun project that I'd probably never end up doing :-) Jun 17 19:37:54 So how does webshell interact with the cli? Jun 17 19:38:00 I haven't looked Jun 17 19:38:05 off topic (side note): my free ringtone site just broke it's bandwidth record at 75mbps... holy crap... (had to tell someone, and my girlfriend would have no idea why that's significant.) Jun 17 19:38:14 chrisa: a python-based webserver running in the background Jun 17 19:38:33 ah, ok. So you're using the browser, not a luna app Jun 17 19:38:59 Can webshell handle processes that use things like curses? Jun 17 19:39:14 top works Jun 17 19:39:18 in webshell Jun 17 19:39:33 someone should really write a terminal app as a plugin Jun 17 19:39:56 i'll second that Jun 17 19:40:04 top doesn't work for me Jun 17 19:40:39 might need to sudo it Jun 17 19:40:42 I just see a line or two blink at the top of the blue area then disappear Jun 17 19:40:44 i made myself a root user Jun 17 19:40:49 chrisa: I don't think so Jun 17 19:40:57 nope Jun 17 19:41:05 I don't even see a password prompt with sudo Jun 17 19:41:19 and I can't read the text that blinks Jun 17 19:41:25 has anyone got the VNC working on the pre? Jun 17 19:41:27 odd, top works fine for me Jun 17 19:43:23 pramos: does tightvnc support framebuffers? I was under the impression it was X only Jun 17 19:44:03 there used to be a framebuffer based vnc client, but i don't know if it's still developed or what it was called (fbvnc maybe?) Jun 17 19:44:06 client of course, not server Jun 17 19:44:20 hmm, wonder what happened to my name Jun 17 19:44:54 jblebrun: without a datasheet I fear you're not going to get anywhere with lp8501, even if you get our driver source Jun 17 19:44:58 chrisa: i just read about VNC working on the pre Jun 17 19:45:06 there's a few framebuffer terminal apps out there Jun 17 19:45:37 pramos: server or client? Jun 17 19:46:04 The problem I expect with vnc is that it's not going to work with the touchpanel Jun 17 19:46:07 chris: Yes, I know Jun 17 19:46:08 client Jun 17 19:46:15 chrisa: I already have someone working on that for me ;-) Jun 17 19:47:59 where can i find a full version of classic for free? Jun 17 19:48:25 That sounds like software piracy Jun 17 19:48:31 pramos: Somewhere besides here. Jun 17 19:48:44 You're in a channel of what is largely software developers / engineers, and a few hobos Jun 17 19:48:49 hrm, if someones got a sec... i have some feedback about http://predev.wikidot.com/stock-application-mods Jun 17 19:48:50 pramos: Please read the topic. Jun 17 19:49:08 deleting code is a bad idea... why not just comment out the lines in question Jun 17 19:49:30 especially when an unexperienced user will delete line 2, then expect line 4 to be 4 when it's actually now something else Jun 17 19:50:08 so... in web shell.. how large is the blue area supposed to be? it only takes up about 1/3 of the screen Jun 17 19:50:38 nebula: I agree. Jun 17 19:51:07 nebula: I'll tell xorg to change it Jun 17 19:51:11 has anyone been able to figure out how to record video? Jun 17 19:51:46 Question: I have successfully achieved Root Access, but I cannot change my password! Says "passwd: cannot update password file /etc/passwd" Jun 17 19:51:46 That's an unrealistic question for the most part Jun 17 19:51:56 pramos: I suspect that is more than a minor hack, which is all we're able to do right now Jun 17 19:52:20 Can anyone give me a hint as to why that might be? Jun 17 19:53:00 Brian_: Did you make your fs readwrite? Jun 17 19:53:23 apparently not. kindly guide me? :) Jun 17 19:53:30 nebula: He's logged off. I'll update it. Jun 17 19:53:38 Brian_: Feel free to come over to #preguides Jun 17 19:53:59 nebula: And send him a PM on the site letting him know why Jun 17 19:54:11 delayed lol @ chisa's hobo comment. Jun 17 19:54:19 jblebrun: i just replied to his forum posting Jun 17 19:54:24 wanna just wait for his response? Jun 17 19:54:41 i'm just concernd newbz will delete the offsets Jun 17 19:54:50 Can you see any reason not to just go ahead and change "delete" to "comment out" right now? Jun 17 19:55:05 none other than i didn't write it :) Jun 17 19:55:18 i'm not used to wiki's Jun 17 19:55:19 pramos: protip: don't look for pirated software in a room full of... software developers. Jun 17 19:55:24 if thats acceptable use, then go for it Jun 17 19:55:44 Yeah, you should always feel free to make technical and semantic corrections Jun 17 19:56:00 just not opinion-based ones (but those probably won't come up much) Jun 17 19:56:03 I just changed it Jun 17 19:56:05 EvanPro_: silly mibbit users Jun 17 19:56:17 cool Jun 17 19:56:29 * EvanPro_ is on mibbit, lol. Jun 17 19:57:04 nebula: Although, they should've backed it up like the top of the page strongly suggests, anyway ;-) Jun 17 19:57:06 yikes! Jun 17 19:57:20 jblebrun: i don't see your update :) Jun 17 19:57:32 I just saved Jun 17 19:57:52 there should also be more explanation how to get r/w Jun 17 19:57:56 it's currently assumed Jun 17 19:58:23 nebula: Should it perhaps become the final step of the gaining root access procedure? Jun 17 19:58:34 hrm Jun 17 19:58:47 Instead of the first step of the optware procedure? Jun 17 19:58:50 i think it's usually on temporarily Jun 17 19:58:59 i always just rw, work, ro Jun 17 19:59:09 I've just left mine rw since day 1 Jun 17 19:59:13 hehe Jun 17 19:59:17 noobs shouldnt do that Jun 17 19:59:32 just in case they type rm -rf * Jun 17 19:59:37 haha Jun 17 19:59:46 hey you never know Jun 17 19:59:46 Some jerk could tell them to. Jun 17 19:59:47 wait... I got something on the webshell screen! :) Jun 17 19:59:56 they might think they are in their home path, yet they are at / Jun 17 20:00:14 or heck, even think / is their home path Jun 17 20:00:18 but it still seems like its rendering wrong... the text entry is way up on the middle of the screen and it seems to scroll beyond it Jun 17 20:00:20 d'oh! Jun 17 20:00:28 Ok, so then should the pattern be to add instructions for adding and then subsequently removing rw access, on any tutorial page that requires it? Jun 17 20:00:39 i would think so Jun 17 20:00:44 that's how i always do it Jun 17 20:00:46 Ok, sounds good to me. Jun 17 20:00:56 for any tutorial that calls for it Jun 17 20:01:13 1. rw 2. wikidoc 3. ro Jun 17 20:01:32 don't wanna assume people know how to do it Jun 17 20:01:36 *edits* Jun 17 20:01:41 w00t Jun 17 20:01:53 * nebula goes home! Jun 17 20:02:19 nebula, already? Jun 17 20:02:21 it's only 1600? Jun 17 20:02:45 Sargun: yeah i live 2 hours from work Jun 17 20:03:05 so it's somewhat accepted Jun 17 20:03:20 bbiab Jun 17 20:04:15 I hate losing 1 hour a day to driving. I can't imagine 4. Jun 17 20:05:06 I love the train Jun 17 20:05:43 * Sargun loves the train as well Jun 17 20:08:17 soo.... any rumors about when the SDK is coming out? Jun 17 20:09:28 twobitsprite: Not until after June 17th, I hear Jun 17 20:09:29 I'm so waiting for the SDK, right now I'm working by analyzing current source code for other apps, it would be so much easier with the SDK Jun 17 20:09:44 jblebrun: hahaha Jun 17 20:09:47 :-D Jun 17 20:14:19 i live 42 miles from work. Jun 17 20:14:44 * EvanPro_ has no train or lightrail option since the tracks start half way anways Jun 17 20:17:06 Transit sucks in so many places :( Jun 17 20:21:38 bpadalino: did you get far? i've been trying to follow the steps in the script but the scratch folder stuff gets confusing Jun 17 20:22:02 shinali, let me add a script i used to git Jun 17 20:22:16 oh, you got it all working? Jun 17 20:22:26 not all Jun 17 20:22:27 :( Jun 17 20:22:43 what're you stuck on? Jun 17 20:23:08 What's the git repo? Jun 17 20:23:28 pushed Jun 17 20:23:35 shinali, compiling afterwards Jun 17 20:23:48 i get gcc built .. i get glibc headers installed .. i get binutils built .. Jun 17 20:24:13 but i get 3 function references that i can't get rid of .. Jun 17 20:24:16 and i can't figure it out Jun 17 20:24:18 :( Jun 17 20:25:57 Evan, unless they're getting that behavior by inheriting it from their service requests, nothing jumps out at me. Jun 17 20:26:08 I'll continue looking for a bit, but I don't see it. Jun 17 20:27:37 bpadalino: Where's the git repo? Jun 17 20:27:47 whoops .. Jun 17 20:27:49 let me link Jun 17 20:27:56 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/cross-compilation Jun 17 20:27:59 thanks Jun 17 20:28:09 you're trying to modify the original script? Jun 17 20:28:17 yeah Jun 17 20:28:18 :( Jun 17 20:28:34 90% of the lines in there have to do with the glib_locale stuff Jun 17 20:28:38 which is just silly Jun 17 20:28:59 so right now i didn't change the scratch stuff.. Jun 17 20:29:05 but i did create it on my system .. Jun 17 20:29:12 so i have a better idea of the structure he's using Jun 17 20:29:37 he has src, pkg, obj, logs and install directories ... Jun 17 20:29:43 install is where the final products go Jun 17 20:29:49 nothing ends up in logs Jun 17 20:29:57 obj is where he does all his work Jun 17 20:30:21 i don't get anything in pkg .. and src is the unzipped package source Jun 17 20:31:49 hrm Jun 17 20:32:03 next step is a global search and replace on the /scratch/paul/lite/linux/ with some other type of $(SCRATCH) or something .. Jun 17 20:32:14 and make everything a little more manageable Jun 17 20:32:43 one thing that i didn't realize at first was that this builds up everything for marvell and thumb2 as well .. so it's a lot of stuff for glibc - but i am just having it do headers for me Jun 17 20:34:00 i'll try to look at it when i get to school Jun 17 20:34:02 i got frustrated with that and went back over to work on qemu emulation - got the newer qemu that supports omap3 to build - and i can boot other arm devices, but not a beagleboard image .. or our image - so i am reading the user manual to figure out how to debug where we're getting stuck Jun 17 20:34:04 cool Jun 17 20:34:48 i'm tempted to look at the mac ports file for the older gnu arm stuff though Jun 17 20:34:57 anyways brb Jun 17 20:35:40 can i just put svn on my pre and then use source control on the files i edit? Jun 17 20:36:32 <=went the other way. Put ftp on the pre and edit on my laptop with my favorite editors Jun 17 20:36:55 yeah, i'll try and get sftp setup this evening Jun 17 20:37:31 naaa /opt/bin/ipkg-opt install ncftp :-) Jun 17 20:38:00 opie_: svn or git-svn Jun 17 20:38:13 all available from optware Jun 17 20:39:35 is it possible to access the pre file system with winscp? Jun 17 20:41:16 dannns: Yes. #preguides may be a better place to ask for help. Jun 17 20:42:20 Oh, i see you're already in there Jun 17 20:42:40 njk: thanks! Jun 17 20:48:01 was the su backdoor removed from the install proccess Jun 17 20:48:46 i thought someone said that *shrug* Jun 17 21:10:30 oc80z: I think just the word "backdoor" was removed. Adding SSH access is still part of the "Enable the Optware Package Feed" instructions. Jun 17 21:11:05 nothing like getting an answer 22m later ;) Jun 17 21:15:53 yippee.... just got a static hello-world com.boatright.app.sample to come up. Mojo Development here Icome. Jun 17 21:16:05 ooh! Jun 17 21:16:37 this, it turns out is every bit as easy as Palm promised it would be. Jun 17 21:17:02 COMPLEX software, will be complex of course. But gettingsomething running in mojo.... nobig deal. Jun 17 21:18:09 Rick_: Glad to hear you got your mojo workin'. Jun 17 21:18:16 Sorry, had to say it. Jun 17 21:18:31 hehehehe Jun 17 21:18:52 Now, to see if my grid-field-manager works well in this thing. Jun 17 21:18:59 So where are the default mp3 files for the factory ringers? Jun 17 21:19:14 Boy you really REALLY want to live carefully in an MVC world tho. Jun 17 21:19:15 Please, don't kick me for asking, haha Jun 17 21:20:20 they're in \usr\lib\luna\customization\copy_binaries\media\internal\ringtones Jun 17 21:20:35 @Rick__: thanks Jun 17 21:20:58 did you use 7zip to extract the webosDr jar? Jun 17 21:21:03 what, is it like "double underscore" central or something in her? Jun 17 21:21:05 here* Jun 17 21:21:06 I did. Jun 17 21:21:13 Double underscore, ftw. Jun 17 21:21:19 7zip is fantastic. Jun 17 21:21:32 ‗ Jun 17 21:21:56 xandrake_: find /usr | grep mp3 Jun 17 21:22:00 if you did, then find nova-cust-image-castle.rootfs.tar.gz and extrat THAT and you'll have all the files on the machine, in the right folders. Jun 17 21:22:14 and you can just use your regular stuff to look for things. Jun 17 21:22:48 I often forget that simple cmds like grep are on my phone!!! Jun 17 21:22:58 It's awesome :-) Jun 17 21:23:04 I love it Jun 17 21:23:11 yup, now I have linux boxen of all shapes and sizes. Jun 17 21:23:17 incidentally, what the hell is the grep in the pre's busybox spposed to be anyway? Jun 17 21:23:42 ebroder_: what do you mean? Jun 17 21:23:47 it's, uh, not a grep Jun 17 21:23:49 also, you need another '_' Jun 17 21:24:04 I don't have a device, I'm not sure what you mean Jun 17 21:24:13 missing flags? Jun 17 21:24:24 I'd bet the issue is that it's the busybox version of grep Jun 17 21:24:26 one sec... Jun 17 21:24:32 no, it's not just missing flasg Jun 17 21:25:53 root@castle:/var/usr/palm/applications# grep Jun 17 21:25:55 BusyBox v1.11.2 () multi-call binary Jun 17 21:25:57 Usage: grep [OPTIONS] BAUD_RATE TTY [TERMTYPE] Jun 17 21:25:59 Open a tty, prompt for a login name, then invoke /bin/login Jun 17 21:26:05 Thanks, Rick__ Jun 17 21:26:19 that's what i was going for Jun 17 21:26:28 Yes Jun 17 21:26:37 less of a grep, more of a getty or something Jun 17 21:26:38 My busybox help is out of sync Jun 17 21:27:09 oh, hmm...so maybe it actually is a grep? Jun 17 21:27:15 Oh, wait, it's right today :-) Jun 17 21:27:20 Yes, it's a grep Jun 17 21:27:34 it doesn't seem to have a grep -R, which is sad Jun 17 21:27:36 The help is screwy Jun 17 21:27:40 ebroder: yes it does. Jun 17 21:27:47 -r Jun 17 21:27:51 ... Jun 17 21:27:54 i hate software Jun 17 21:27:57 The help gets offest. Jun 17 21:28:07 It starts showing help for the wrong commands sometimes. Jun 17 21:28:07 I hope our next OTA doesn't screw with all of our work thus far. Jun 17 21:28:57 wow,it IS a grep, find /usr |grep mp3 worked fine. Jun 17 21:29:05 mhmm Jun 17 21:29:07 I hate bad help. Jun 17 21:29:25 The help is right Jun 17 21:29:28 it's just linked improperly Jun 17 21:29:29 :-) Jun 17 21:29:34 That's the help for, like, login Jun 17 21:29:39 getty, actually Jun 17 21:29:45 it looks like the help is for the command before Jun 17 21:29:50 if you just run busybox, you can see the list of commands it knows Jun 17 21:29:53 getty is right before grtep Jun 17 21:29:54 *grep Jun 17 21:30:00 and gunzip is right after grep Jun 17 21:30:05 gunzip --help gives you the help for grep Jun 17 21:30:20 bravo! :-) Jun 17 21:30:23 good call Jun 17 21:30:35 they have grep -R, you can't use capital R though.. it's grep -r Jun 17 21:30:49 psykoz: which makes it Wrong in my book, but i'll survive :-P Jun 17 21:30:58 ebroder_, l2adjust Jun 17 21:31:02 ;) Jun 17 21:31:10 xandrake__, yah I'm curious what the next update from palm will do to our changes we've hacked on our Pre's Jun 17 21:31:34 I sure hope Palm are good sports...this will be the defining moment. Jun 17 21:31:49 anyway GNU has supported -r for years as equally as -R.. Jun 17 21:31:55 I don't know how -r can be wrong in your book then... Jun 17 21:32:02 psykoz: Huh - really? I've totally missed that Jun 17 21:32:07 I've been wasting a keystroke all this tmie! Jun 17 21:32:08 We've been trying to make sure modifications we make are easily re-doable if an update breaks them Jun 17 21:32:11 ebroder_, yes Jun 17 21:32:43 Aye, we've got an op-inion ;-) Jun 17 21:32:46 You could just install grep from optWare if you want full grep Jun 17 21:32:47 straight from gnu man pages: Jun 17 21:32:48 -R, -r, --recursive Jun 17 21:32:48 Read all files under each directory, recursively; this is equiv- Jun 17 21:32:48 alent to the -d recurse option. Jun 17 21:33:54 good to know. i'll have to retrain myself on that one Jun 17 21:34:39 jblebrun: i'm holding off on installing optware until i understand it better (e.g. security standards, how the builds actually get run, etc) Jun 17 21:34:53 mostly because i'm strangely paranoid, but my pre does have access to a lot of my personal data Jun 17 21:36:56 What was the deal with the stories of "Forced updates" coming? Was there any truth to that? Jun 17 21:37:10 yes Jun 17 21:37:14 they are out to get us!!!! Jun 17 21:37:22 * Lurking_Grue hides. Jun 17 21:37:24 :D Jun 17 21:37:30 it is absolutely true that there are stories about forced updates. Jun 17 21:38:19 it is argueably _not_ true that there is any evidence that those forthcoming updates will do evil things to prevent people from messing with their phones. Jun 17 21:38:23 I mean what caused the stories? Somehow I would doubt they were going to push the updates. Jun 17 21:38:56 Why would they not? the average (L)user doesn't THINK to update. Jun 17 21:38:57 Rick: it would be trivial to stop them. Jun 17 21:39:01 Pushing an update is a good thing. Jun 17 21:39:23 Pushing an update that breaks the developer community would be bad, but there is no evidence that will happen. Jun 17 21:40:27 Push updates is like remote wipe. It's IMPORTANT. Cutting off the dev community would be evil, -and- stupid, but there is no evidence of that. Jun 17 21:41:04 Rick: I would agree. Jun 17 21:41:24 lurking_grue, it was media fretting over the user manual Jun 17 21:41:42 which defines that the updates are forced on you if you forget to choose to update after 4 requests Jun 17 21:41:59 Ah... thats where it came from. Like the techcrunch "Oh noes! Apple is going to break the pre" story today. Jun 17 21:42:03 palm never made a public statement saying to the effect of "we'll force updates on you" ;) Jun 17 21:42:31 *eyeroll* apple won't do anything like that. they'll fight the battle in the courtroom, where it won't affect users Jun 17 21:43:04 Eb: It was based off of bit of text that showed up on the apple support site that said they were not goign to support 3'rd party syncing. Jun 17 21:43:07 I dunno.. I think they may just leave it with that, basically saying if your device doesn't do what it's supposed to do exactly like an iPod we don't support it Jun 17 21:43:13 ok, back to webos-internals. Jun 17 21:43:18 There's a knowledge base article that implied that the updates will be forced. But a palm employee in here suggested that perhaps that article is false. It's all unverified, though. Jun 17 21:43:35 com.boatright.app.sample is on there, and runs, but I _lost_ the launcher entry for AccuWeather. Jun 17 21:43:53 There must be a configuration somewhere that says how many installed apps there are. Jun 17 21:44:00 Psy: they don't want to fight palm... Palm has a couple of thousand patents in this field that I am sure apple is infringing on. Jun 17 21:44:02 ideas? Jun 17 21:44:05 psykoz: http://kb.palm.com/wps/portal/kb/na/pre/p100eww/sprint/solutions/article/19181_en.html <- updates will be forced Jun 17 21:44:44 I'm not debating whether they're forced or not, I'm pointing out the media is overhyping it as Palm is going to say "fuck you dev community!" and slam down their iron fist ;) Jun 17 21:44:48 Hmm.. I wonder where the backround checker is. Jun 17 21:44:48 because that makes good news Jun 17 21:45:03 Is it in cron? Jun 17 21:45:09 oh, the media has no idea about anything usually ... Jun 17 21:45:19 especially the little tech bloggers Jun 17 21:45:48 take the who tethering hype - every tech blogger got it completely wrong. Jun 17 21:46:03 was responding to: 16:36 < Lurking_Grue> What was the deal with the stories of "Forced updates" coming? Was there any truth to that? Jun 17 21:46:34 the motivations of a tech blogger are to get more hits, not to write balanced accurate articles. Jun 17 21:46:55 there was only half truth, the truth is/was palms site says updates are mandatory, the non-truth behind it was journalist used it as a "ha ha you dev community retards, palm is going to make you stop now, today kthx bai!" Jun 17 21:47:09 and.... deleting com.boatright.app.sample did in fact bring back theicon for accuweather. Jun 17 21:47:16 psykoz: exactly Jun 17 21:47:22 So, SOmEWHEREthere is a config file with the number of installed apps. Jun 17 21:47:26 CrudPuppies. Jun 17 21:47:28 Dig dig dig Jun 17 21:47:31 What's funny is that they all picked up a crappy tethering solution ;-) Jun 17 21:47:32 Psy: Wow, you sounded lick TechCrunch there. Jun 17 21:47:54 every time "journalists" report anything more than the facts, they're just making it up. Jun 17 21:48:28 (as they all did in the tethering case) Jun 17 21:48:45 journalists making stuff up?! shocker! Jun 17 21:49:23 Rick__: hmm...does the pre's kernels support inotify? Jun 17 21:49:38 You could maybe monitor ~all filesystem changes when you install a new app Jun 17 21:50:01 Rick__: did you change the ID in appinfo.json? Jun 17 21:50:26 Ah... bet it is this "1460 ? Ss 0:42 /usr/bin/UpdateDaemon" Jun 17 21:50:48 I did, I built it from scratch modeling after infopedia... Jun 17 21:50:55 Rick__: I copied an existing app to a new directory, changed the ID in appinfo.json, and both appear... Jun 17 21:51:18 yes, but do _all_ your icons appear? Or did one disappear. Jun 17 21:51:32 What happened is, I got MY icon but lost a _totally different one_ Jun 17 21:51:39 and I checked all the pages. Jun 17 21:51:57 gads I don't want to grub around in launcher. Jun 17 21:52:32 Lurking_Grue: running strings on that binary certainly make it look like that will handle the updates Jun 17 21:52:36 Ohhh Jun 17 21:52:38 ANN: RFC: Looking for comments on http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-internals-irc-channel-policy Jun 17 21:53:15 Rick__: is there an inotify-tools package in optware or something Jun 17 21:53:18 Rick__: try uninstalling an app with dbus-util --capture running Jun 17 21:53:20 or could you just build it? Jun 17 21:53:22 Bart: Might have to keep an eye on that process. :) Jun 17 21:53:31 inotifywatch could probably be used for this Jun 17 21:53:43 anyone find anything about the touchscreenhid library? the hid part has been bothering me since last night Jun 17 21:57:01 I just copied an app I'm trying to make to /usr/palm/applications, is there anything else I need to do for it to show in the launcher, or do I need to reboot or something? Jun 17 21:58:47 bpadalino: is it supposed to make all those scratch directories? Jun 17 21:59:00 hi Jun 17 21:59:16 irc'ing from my pre :) Jun 17 21:59:29 oh? Jun 17 21:59:45 bitchx from ipkg Jun 17 22:00:12 ssh from your pc to your pre, running bitchx on the pre? Jun 17 22:00:17 yeah Jun 17 22:00:26 needs moar terminal from the pre Jun 17 22:00:31 nice start though! Jun 17 22:00:34 Rick_: I don't get missing icons Jun 17 22:00:56 i'm trying to get my pre to drop its runlevel to 3 see if i can get console on the pre itself Jun 17 22:01:35 is luna gtk+ or something? anyone determine how to write for it natively? Jun 17 22:03:34 dans, installed apps go in >>> /var <<< /usr/palm/applications. A mistake I made twice today. Jun 17 22:03:51 hello all Jun 17 22:03:58 hi 1cell Jun 17 22:04:12 Rick__: thanks, will try that Jun 17 22:04:24 hi seigex Jun 17 22:04:27 hmm.. on EfNet i was getting K-Lined when using EVDO to bitchx to irc...said i had an open proxy Jun 17 22:04:41 haha Jun 17 22:04:43 err ice11 Jun 17 22:04:46 i'm using iirc... Jun 17 22:04:54 ircii* Jun 17 22:05:07 u irc'ing from your pre? Jun 17 22:05:19 or linux box Jun 17 22:05:36 nerp. from my home computer. I'm gonna get a pre when I'm sure it supports SIMs or get's released in canada Jun 17 22:05:36 Rick__: When I copy an app and change the ID, I get an additional icon in my launcher. Am I misunderstanding your problem? Jun 17 22:05:46 ah Jun 17 22:06:10 so you're using your pre? Jun 17 22:06:10 jblebrun: Nope, that's what didn't happen for me, but I'll try again. Jun 17 22:06:35 i turned on some debugging in the luna.conf file in /etc/palm ... sorta annoying Jun 17 22:06:55 so you can indeed write native apps for the pre right? Jun 17 22:06:59 I note that when i did the dbus-util --capture when running uninstall, a LOT of calls to com.palm.appinstaller passing COMPLEX parameters. Jun 17 22:06:59 Rick__: I might have counted wrong, I'll try again too Jun 17 22:07:01 puts green boxes around all the icons and tells me when i push and release on the touchscreen Jun 17 22:07:03 I saw the vnc app.. Jun 17 22:07:08 and the nintendo emulator Jun 17 22:07:14 ice11: it's in a debian chroot Jun 17 22:07:29 yes, I saw that too. but it' Jun 17 22:07:34 s a native application Jun 17 22:07:42 in classic emulation mode Jun 17 22:08:32 ice11: It's just native ARM/Linux binaries running completely independently of the Palm webOS environment Jun 17 22:08:47 I wonder if palm will release a decent freaking Linux API this time... last time the linux version of the API had windows line endings in files... quite retarded. Jun 17 22:08:58 jblebrun: oh, so not sanctioned by Palm at all? Jun 17 22:09:01 jblebrun, are we able to drop out of Luna yet? ie. runlevel change Jun 17 22:09:38 seigex: You could just kill LunaSysMgr.... Jun 17 22:09:48 so... no native apps for webos. just silly web apps. *sigh* Jun 17 22:09:50 i think when i did that last time it rebooted my pre.. i'll try again Jun 17 22:09:50 initctl stop it, rather Jun 17 22:10:16 ice11: They're HTML+JS applications with a lot of hooks into the system. Not "just web apps" Jun 17 22:10:21 HTML5+JS Jun 17 22:10:22 not true Ice11... Jun 17 22:10:34 ice11: It's a very powerful development environment for a lot of tasks Jun 17 22:11:06 not just silly web apps. First, 'cause of what jblbrun said.... PLUS take a look at classic, which is a mojo framework around a browser plugin that is a native app. Jun 17 22:11:34 hmmm, has anyone able to use the rooter with 64bit vista? Jun 17 22:11:41 Rick__: My app did show up, after putting it in the var folder, and a reboot Jun 17 22:11:58 this is so cool Jun 17 22:12:08 but recognize that just because the language is javascript does not mean that these are webapps. They aren't they are admittedly INTERPRETED apps, not compiled, but they are native. They're not running "in a browser." Jun 17 22:12:13 ah got ya Jun 17 22:12:24 Rick__, jdlebrun: Interesting. So lots of component programming hooks via js? Nice. HTML5? Even the