**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 25 02:59:57 2009
Jun 25 03:00:02 <Rick__> passing it forward ventralnet
Jun 25 03:00:35 <Rick__> but if you can't ping it, you sure as heck can't ssh it.
Jun 25 03:01:04 <Rick__> you  are telnetted in via wifi?  Or did you go in USB?
Jun 25 03:01:22 <ventralnet> USB
Jun 25 03:01:42 <ventralnet> ok got it guys
Jun 25 03:01:44 <Rick__> ok.....  wonder if your router is blocking 222?
Jun 25 03:01:48 <ventralnet> Going to throw my router out the window :)
Jun 25 03:01:56 <Rick__> what kind of router?
Jun 25 03:01:59 <ventralnet> for some resaon wireless to wireless connections don't work very well
Jun 25 03:02:03 <ventralnet> dlink
Jun 25 03:02:08 <Rick__> huh.
Jun 25 03:02:11 <Rick__> weird.
Jun 25 03:02:14 <xandrake_> yea
Jun 25 03:02:18 <xandrake_> that is kinda weird
Jun 25 03:02:29 <ventralnet> slow ping responses to phone
Jun 25 03:02:30 <ventralnet> is that normal?
Jun 25 03:02:31 <Rick__> oh well.  nevertheless, welcome to the club
Jun 25 03:02:35 <Rick__> yep
Jun 25 03:02:40 <Rick__> that's normal
Jun 25 03:02:45 <ventralnet> 63ms or so
Jun 25 03:02:50 <Rick__> and you'll occasionally see long lags when typing
Jun 25 03:03:26 <ventralnet> Interesting
Jun 25 03:03:42 <ventralnet> So, should you not make a root password?
Jun 25 03:04:04 <Technobabble> is this a feature or a bug?: su -
Jun 25 03:04:04 <Technobabble> su: must be suid to work properly
Jun 25 03:04:07 <xandrake_> I've not
Jun 25 03:04:23 <xandrake_> We were initially afraid it might muck things up with OTA
Jun 25 03:04:25 <xandrake_> updates
Jun 25 03:04:28 <Technobabble> wait, nm, i forgot we set up sudo
Jun 25 03:04:32 <ventralnet> yea, that was my thought
Jun 25 03:04:40 <ventralnet> yea sudo is workin
Jun 25 03:04:49 <Rick__> we think not.
Jun 25 03:07:07 <Rick__> <-- frustrated.
Jun 25 03:07:11 <ventralnet> I don't know if this is out of the realm of this room (not really technical question)
Jun 25 03:07:20 <ventralnet> but does anyone else's screen a little loose
Jun 25 03:07:41 <xandrake_> My initial one was pretty bad.
Jun 25 03:07:48 <Rick__> I -thought I understood how passing parameters to and from mojo widgets worked.  But I'm still having the devils own time with text boxes.
Jun 25 03:07:50 <Technobabble> my screen feels great
Jun 25 03:07:52 <rwhitby> ventralnet: a quick answer is ok, but a discussion should go to #webos where Palm can see it.
Jun 25 03:07:53 <ventralnet> When closed? Not toooo noticable but it giggles if you try
Jun 25 03:08:05 <Rick__> loose in what way ventralnet?
Jun 25 03:08:16 <ventralnet> ok rwhitby
Jun 25 03:08:41 <ventralnet> Well, you can jiggle it side to side about a centimeter or two
Jun 25 03:09:16 <Rick__> two cm is 1/3 the width of the phone...   if that's actually true and you didn't mean 2mm, then take it to sprint for an exchange
Jun 25 03:09:20 <xandrake_> Mine actually had a bit of a gap in between the top and bottom sections that I had to push back together..
Jun 25 03:09:45 <xandrake_> needless to say, I got a new one
Jun 25 03:10:08 <Rick__> the slider is supposed to have some play in it.  0.5mm is normal, a little more is ok.  2mm is excessive
Jun 25 03:10:18 <destinal> grr, 4 dead pixles
Jun 25 03:10:20 <destinal> pixels
Jun 25 03:10:29 <ventralnet> Ya, I probably meant 2mm
Jun 25 03:10:34 <xandrake_> you use any pixel unsticking tools?
Jun 25 03:10:37 <ventralnet> It is noticable looser than my friends
Jun 25 03:10:38 <Rick__> 2 cm is almost an inch
Jun 25 03:10:42 <destinal> haven't tried yet
Jun 25 03:10:46 <ventralnet> 2.54 to be exact
Jun 25 03:11:00 <Rick__> ok ok,  ok   2cm is 78% of an inch.
Jun 25 03:11:09 <trixx> hey, can anyone send me the contents of document-assistant.js file? i forgot to back mine up before editing >_<
Jun 25 03:11:19 <Rick__> get it out of webosdr
Jun 25 03:11:30 <trixx> oh you're right
Jun 25 03:11:51 <Rick__> 1.0.3 webosdr is out and linked from the front page of the wiki
Jun 25 03:11:57 <xandrake_> ohhhh
Jun 25 03:12:01 <xandrake_> I need that
Jun 25 03:12:12 <trixx> excellent thanks
Jun 25 03:12:19 <destinal> same URL as it was before, they overwrote
Jun 25 03:12:24 <Technobabble> do you guys know of a website that has a speed tester that the pre can use?
Jun 25 03:13:07 <trixx> http://www.dslreports.com/mspeed?jisok=1
Jun 25 03:13:12 <Rick__> not until we get a java plugin
Jun 25 03:13:15 <trixx> that one can be used for mobiles
Jun 25 03:13:24 <Rick__> oh oh bookmarked.
Jun 25 03:13:24 <destinal> I think I've used the iphone ones
Jun 25 03:13:36 <destinal> everyone uses webkit for browsers
Jun 25 03:19:11 <Technobabble> nice, 1845kbit/sec over wifi
Jun 25 03:19:21 <xandrake_> hmm
Jun 25 03:19:30 <xandrake_> do evdo, y0
Jun 25 03:20:25 <xandrake_> WTB: chmod 777 xandrake@wiki
Jun 25 03:20:56 * rwhitby bbl
Jun 25 03:21:01 <xandrake_> no
Jun 25 03:21:13 <xandrake_> I need edit perms on wiki
Jun 25 03:25:43 <destinal> xandrake_: heh, let everyone read write and execute you on the wiki?
Jun 25 03:25:59 <xandrake_> ;)
Jun 25 03:28:14 <mrvc> bpadalino: are you interested in discussing the pmux packet?
Jun 25 03:28:21 <Rick__> I'm _not_ staying up so late tonight.
Jun 25 03:28:28 <s0urce> I'll write him off, destinal, you execute him then Rick can open him up
Jun 25 03:28:31 <bpadalino> mrvc, yes
Jun 25 03:28:32 <xandrake_> myself either
Jun 25 03:28:33 <Rick__> us older guys need our sleep.
Jun 25 03:28:33 <bpadalino> lets talk
Jun 25 03:28:54 <Rick__> <-- pumpkin   gnight all
Jun 25 03:28:59 <xandrake_> <-- old + sleep + work in 6 hours = sleepy xan
Jun 25 03:29:04 <xandrake_> nite rick
Jun 25 03:29:15 <xandrake_> and nobody is opening me up!   :P
Jun 25 03:29:22 <Rick__> ok xandrake... that's a challenge.       1955
Jun 25 03:29:56 <xandrake_> 82!!
Jun 25 03:30:19 <Rick__> you/'re younger than my youngest child.
Jun 25 03:30:30 <xandrake_> I'm 82 years old.
Jun 25 03:30:34 <xandrake_> ;)
Jun 25 03:30:40 <xandrake_> I kid I kid.
Jun 25 03:30:50 <Rick__> I laugh I laugh
Jun 25 03:30:59 <xandrake_> haha ^_^   later all
Jun 25 03:31:31 * xandrake_ is asleepin
Jun 25 03:35:31 <seigex> hi
Jun 25 03:35:44 <crashx-> I love you
Jun 25 03:36:11 <cpuguy06> evening
Jun 25 03:36:23 <Technobabble> sup spu
Jun 25 03:36:28 <Technobabble> cpu, rather
Jun 25 03:37:09 <cpuguy06> nah much, trying to bypass the pre activation using webos doctor and not having much luck
Jun 25 03:38:07 <Technobabble> yeah, that's definitely on the "to do" list
Jun 25 03:38:52 <cpuguy06> keeps freezin at 14% while flashin...a lot of people been havin that problem?
Jun 25 03:39:21 <Technobabble> not that i'm aware of, what sort of timeframe do you consider to be a "freeze"
Jun 25 03:39:32 <cpuguy06> i'm sorry, the flash fails
Jun 25 03:39:59 <cpuguy06> webOS dr says flash failed and re-directs me to the palm.com/rom site
Jun 25 03:40:27 <cpuguy06> doesn't redirect, just says to check it out
Jun 25 03:41:08 <cpuguy06> any chance I could have someone's flasher.jar file?
Jun 25 03:41:37 <cpuguy06> i'm thinking I messed something up with compiling mine
Jun 25 03:42:21 <Technobabble> yave you tried palm's one?
Jun 25 03:42:24 <cpuguy06> I plan on making a write up once I get all this stuff solved so other people don't have to go through all this
Jun 25 03:43:36 <Technobabble> http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre_p100eww/webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar
Jun 25 03:43:46 <cpuguy06> the vanilla one from palm works correctly...its just my modified one that I modified by going here: http://predev.wikidot.com/bypassing-activation that gives me problems.
Jun 25 03:43:47 <Technobabble> have you tried running that one? ^
Jun 25 03:43:57 <Technobabble> ohhh
Jun 25 03:43:57 <cpuguy06> yup that one works perfectly
Jun 25 03:44:07 <Technobabble> god, they already have bypassing working?
Jun 25 03:44:14 <Technobabble> they were just talking about it yesterday..
Jun 25 03:44:41 <cpuguy06> supposedly...i have yet to see it work
Jun 25 03:44:58 <cpuguy06> it allows you to click on the phone in the lower right hand corner and connect to your wifi to create a profile
Jun 25 03:45:12 <cpuguy06> then once the profile is created you can root it and all that other good schtuff
Jun 25 03:46:34 <cpuguy06> you have your pre on sprint i take it?
Jun 25 03:46:38 <Technobabble> yeah
Jun 25 03:46:42 <Technobabble> working great too
Jun 25 03:46:56 <Technobabble> has anyone else successfully done what you're attempting?
Jun 25 03:47:34 <cpuguy06> yea, a few people on mobile-files
Jun 25 03:47:43 <cpuguy06> I don't have sprint and sprint in my area is something aweful
Jun 25 03:47:57 <cpuguy06> i have alltel...I called and alltel will activate the phone
Jun 25 03:48:15 <cpuguy06> its just a matter of me getting by this one step so I can throw the alltel PRL on there and proceed with my modifying
Jun 25 03:49:59 <cpuguy06> anyone else bypassed this before?
Jun 25 03:57:44 <Technobabble> cpu, stick around, maybe someone'll show up who has
Jun 25 03:59:56 <Tiv_> i need help with http://predev.wikidot.com/next-steps-after-rooting step #8 export PATH=/opt/bin:$PATH
Jun 25 04:00:35 <rawdr_> is that what it says? I may be wrong but I would do 'export $PATH=:/opt/bin
Jun 25 04:00:44 <Tiv_> is $path variable, and should I change it, similar to $MYUSER
Jun 25 04:00:51 <rawdr_> you are trying to add to it
Jun 25 04:00:54 <Tiv_> export PATH=/opt/bin:$PATH
Jun 25 04:01:08 <Tiv_> ok, so I don't have to change that
Jun 25 04:01:22 <rawdr_> what do you mean?
Jun 25 04:02:26 <tivon> Nevermind, I believe I have an answer. let me check it out, brb
Jun 25 04:02:32 <tivon> Thank you.
Jun 25 04:02:35 <rawdr_> was the command giving you trouble?
Jun 25 04:04:24 <seigex> woohoo beer on tap :D
Jun 25 04:04:35 <seigex> just bought a new keg of Firestone Double Barrel Ale for my kegerator : )
Jun 25 04:07:44 <oc80z> ur the man.
Jun 25 04:08:07 <cpuguy06> sweet
Jun 25 04:08:21 <cpuguy06> i need some beer after tryin to get this pre bypassed the sprint activation
Jun 25 04:08:52 <seigex> hah
Jun 25 04:09:00 <cpuguy06> done it before?
Jun 25 04:09:04 <seigex> nah
Jun 25 04:09:06 <seigex> i'm in the us
Jun 25 04:09:07 <seigex> no need
Jun 25 04:09:12 <cpuguy06> yea im in the us too
Jun 25 04:09:15 <cpuguy06> sprint sucks in my area
Jun 25 04:09:17 <seigex> ah
Jun 25 04:09:25 <seigex> sprint's better than verizon here
Jun 25 04:09:31 <cpuguy06> ah yea not so here
Jun 25 04:09:32 <seigex> so cal
Jun 25 04:12:33 <JamesBaud> is there anyway to have 2 cards, 1 for aim messages and 1 for text messages, i know they have 'New Cards For Each Messaging Conversation' but can you seprate the AIM messages with TEXT messages
Jun 25 04:13:05 <tivon> just got this error when trying to ssh via wifi ip http://webos.pastebin.com/m67c793ae
Jun 25 04:14:30 <rwhitby> eno: do we need step 8 of http://predev.wikidot.com/next-steps-after-rooting any more?
Jun 25 04:15:05 <eno> rwhitby: not anymore, but need to revert all ipkg-opt to /opt/bin/ipkg-opt
Jun 25 04:15:25 <rwhitby> or just move the /etc/profile.d step earlier and . optware ?
Jun 25 04:15:51 <eno> that would work, but requires a new shell session
Jun 25 04:16:02 <rwhitby> . (source)
Jun 25 04:16:05 <eno> yeah, with . optware
Jun 25 04:17:08 <eno> tivon: typical message when the ip address had a different sshd before
Jun 25 04:21:20 <tivon> How would i go about getting it propper? any suggestions?
Jun 25 04:22:39 <eno> the ssh client side warns you against server key change
Jun 25 04:22:55 <eno> so you can comment out .ssh/known_hosts
Jun 25 04:23:01 <eno> the corresponding line
Jun 25 04:23:30 <eno> in the message, it even tells you about which line is offending
Jun 25 04:27:36 <hemna> destinal, have you figured out gstreamer ?
Jun 25 04:28:26 <destinal> I've been working on other stuff but I suggest trying http://www.gstreamer.net/
Jun 25 04:28:34 <destinal> it's bound to be more or less the standard interface
Jun 25 04:30:27 <hemna> no clue about gstreamer, but I'm reading up on it
Jun 25 04:30:50 <hemna> looks like there might be a cmdln way of telling gst to snap a picture with camsrc element
Jun 25 04:35:53 <destinal> try this from the command line:   gst-inspect fakesrc
Jun 25 04:36:01 <destinal> if that works, try   gst-inspect camsrc
Jun 25 04:36:47 <destinal> looks like you basically just need a source and a sink, the source being the camera source and the sink being something to write an image to disk
Jun 25 04:37:30 <hemna> yah.  it's all a pipeline with elements to interpret/modify that pipe
Jun 25 04:37:38 <hemna> just have to get the source and shove it into an output
Jun 25 04:38:30 <destinal>  gst-launch-0.10 v4l2src ! ffmpegcolorspace ! pngenc ! filesink location=foo.png
Jun 25 04:38:30 <destinal> or  gst-launch-0.10 camsrc ! ffmpegcolorspace ! pngenc ! filesink location=foo.png
Jun 25 04:39:05 <rwhitby> mdklein: ping
Jun 25 04:39:17 <mdklein> pong
Jun 25 04:43:07 <rwhitby> mdklein: the patch you sent me, was that against a virgin 1.0.3 ?
Jun 25 04:44:05 <mdklein> was from an older webdoctor :(
Jun 25 04:44:23 <mdklein> had no virgin 1.0.3 but it didn't look like browser was in 1.0.3 patch :-/
Jun 25 04:44:26 <mdklein> why? failing?
Jun 25 04:45:13 <rwhitby> looks like my hacked up rootfs from the doctor doesn't match what's on a real device :-(
Jun 25 04:45:21 <rwhitby> I must have stuffed up somewhere.
Jun 25 04:46:28 <Webizard> in your bra ;)
Jun 25 04:46:36 <mdklein> kinky
Jun 25 04:47:06 <hemna> yah gst-launch complains there is no ffmpegcolorspace element
Jun 25 04:50:54 <freakshow> hey all
Jun 25 04:50:57 <seigex> hi
Jun 25 04:51:02 <seigex> damn this beer is good
Jun 25 04:51:08 <freakshow> haha
Jun 25 04:51:13 <freakshow> whatcha got?
Jun 25 04:51:18 <Webizard> im jealous
Jun 25 04:51:34 <PreGame> anyone have webhosting i can use for my .ipk file?
Jun 25 04:52:21 <freakshow> not here
Jun 25 04:52:36 <hemna> seigex, home brew?
Jun 25 04:52:46 <hemna> PreGame, I do
Jun 25 04:55:14 <destinal> hemna: you can always try removing that from the pipeline
Jun 25 04:55:37 <hemna> hrmm palmjpegencfilesink
Jun 25 04:55:42 <hemna> maybe that is the trick
Jun 25 04:55:48 <destinal> aha
Jun 25 04:55:50 <destinal> looks decent
Jun 25 04:56:14 <PreGame> hemna: Would you mind letting me use it?
Jun 25 04:56:33 <freakshow> do either of you know anything about getting past that activation screen at the beginning?
Jun 25 04:57:04 <freakshow> i'm not on sprint, got the pre off of ebay
Jun 25 04:57:13 <rwhitby> freakshow: it's on the wiki
Jun 25 04:57:30 <freakshow> i've been trying the stuff on the wiki, keeps erroring out at 14%
Jun 25 04:58:29 <PreGame> rwhitby: Where is the shared folders located for vbox ubuntu?
Jun 25 04:58:47 <rwhitby> PreGame: it's an option on a machine config
Jun 25 04:59:04 <PreGame> yea i set it but know how do i access it via ubuntu
Jun 25 04:59:18 <hemna> gst-launch-0.10 camsrc ! palmjpegencfilesink location=foo.jpg
Jun 25 04:59:21 <hemna> that is really close
Jun 25 04:59:30 <rwhitby> PreGame: dunno - I just use WinSCP to transfer files
Jun 25 05:01:27 <freakshow> do either of you know someone who's had the bypass method work?
Jun 25 05:04:57 <rwhitby> freakshow: check the wiki page history
Jun 25 05:06:13 <rwhitby> mdklein: ok, I regenerated my 1.0.3 rootfs from the doctor, and now the patch applies cleanly.
Jun 25 05:06:23 <mdklein> nice
Jun 25 05:10:42 <seigex> hemna, i have a homebrew fermenting right now
Jun 25 05:10:51 <hemna> excelent
Jun 25 05:10:55 <seigex> but i just got a firestone right now to hold me off
Jun 25 05:10:58 <hemna> I have a red ale in the keg (home brew)
Jun 25 05:11:00 <seigex> firestone double barrel ale
Jun 25 05:11:02 <seigex> nice
Jun 25 05:11:04 <seigex> another homebrewer
Jun 25 05:11:10 <hemna> yup!
Jun 25 05:11:12 <seigex> i have a stout (b3 stout from more beer)
Jun 25 05:11:19 <seigex> you do extract or mash?
Jun 25 05:11:24 <gaffo_laptop_> seigex, I have a raspberry wheat, extract
Jun 25 05:11:33 <hemna> I do extract
Jun 25 05:11:34 <seigex> look at that homebrew brew and homebrew beer
Jun 25 05:11:38 <seigex> i'm on extract right now too
Jun 25 05:11:45 <seigex> planning to move to all grain this summer
Jun 25 05:11:52 <seigex> there was a youtube video of partial mash that looked pretty easy
Jun 25 05:11:52 <hemna> cream ale and hefeweizen on deck
Jun 25 05:11:59 <seigex> i'm doin ga IIPA here soon
Jun 25 05:12:00 <seigex> :D
Jun 25 05:12:04 <mdklein> the last one I brewed was a brown ale, but it's been awhile :( I should do a nice american wheat for the summer...
Jun 25 05:12:04 <hemna> ooh
Jun 25 05:12:07 <seigex> keg or bottle?
Jun 25 05:12:14 <hemna> me loves an IPA
Jun 25 05:12:15 <hemna> I keg
Jun 25 05:12:19 <seigex> me 2
Jun 25 05:12:22 <seigex> home built kegerator
Jun 25 05:12:26 <seigex> double faucet
Jun 25 05:12:28 <rwhitby> guys, think of those people who are going to be reading the logs for webos-internals info please ...
Jun 25 05:12:28 <destinal> heh, I'm a homebrewer also
Jun 25 05:12:41 <seigex> rwhitby, good they can be homebrewers for beer also :)
Jun 25 05:12:42 <rwhitby> let's use #webos for chatting :-)
Jun 25 05:12:47 <mdklein> rwhitby: I thought this channel was for homebrew help ;-)
Jun 25 05:12:53 <seigex> haha
Jun 25 05:13:12 <seigex> ok going to webos for homebrew beer chat
Jun 25 05:13:26 <gaffo_laptop_> bpadalino, I think I've got some good splits going with the framework.
Jun 25 05:13:28 <seigex> lets seen it was hemna, mdklein and gaffu
Jun 25 05:13:41 <mdklein> you could always make an OG calculator app for webos
Jun 25 05:13:56 <seigex> i am
Jun 25 05:13:58 <bpadalino> gaffo, awesome ..
Jun 25 05:14:02 <seigex> i'm going to make a homebrew beer app
Jun 25 05:14:08 <seigex> sorta like beer smith
Jun 25 05:14:15 <bpadalino> gaffo, think we'll be able to make a nice library out of it ?
Jun 25 05:14:21 <bpadalino> mrvc has been looking too
Jun 25 05:14:27 <bpadalino> and he has some good insights too
Jun 25 05:14:29 <hemna> that'd be cool!
Jun 25 05:15:07 <gaffo_laptop_> bpadalino, I'm hoping. it's also to break it up to test it
Jun 25 05:15:17 <seigex> hemna, gaffo and mdklein, join #webos
Jun 25 05:15:18 <bpadalino> indeed it is
Jun 25 05:15:29 <seigex> and any of u from so cal?
Jun 25 05:15:35 <mdklein> eh, i'm about to go away, maybe later
Jun 25 05:15:45 <seigex> aight
Jun 25 05:15:45 <Lurking_Grue> I am.
Jun 25 05:15:52 <seigex> lurking, where?
Jun 25 05:16:00 <Lurking_Grue> Garden Grove.
Jun 25 05:16:10 <hemna> heh down south
Jun 25 05:16:29 <hemna> in L.A. area?
Jun 25 05:16:29 <Lurking_Grue> Yup... few miles from the park.
Jun 25 05:16:31 <seigex> <- riverside
Jun 25 05:17:10 <hemna> I lived in LA for 8 years
Jun 25 05:17:46 <seigex> what part
Jun 25 05:17:50 <seigex> where u at now?
Jun 25 05:18:34 <hemna> I lived in Culver City
Jun 25 05:18:47 <hemna> moved to San Jose in '98
Jun 25 05:19:05 * Lurking_Grue knows the way to San Jose.
Jun 25 05:19:18 <hemna> live near Auburn now
Jun 25 05:19:52 <rwhitby> can anyone test quilt and stgit to see how fast they run on the Pre?
Jun 25 05:24:03 <seigex> hemna, ah i had family up in SJ for years .. my aunt and uncle just moved to hawaii but my cousin is still there
Jun 25 05:25:16 <hemna> my aunt and uncle live in sjc :P
Jun 25 05:25:39 <quailish> anyone who's messed w/ mojo happen to know the correct div/class hierarchy to add a "palm-list-section-label" ? (mentioned in rough cuts, but not very specific as to how it's included in a list)
Jun 25 05:26:16 <seigex> can't go into any more than is in the rough cuts due to the non-disclosure agreement
Jun 25 05:28:04 <quailish> back to guessing, I suppose :)
Jun 25 05:28:26 <seigex> lol
Jun 25 05:28:27 <seigex> sorry bro
Jun 25 05:28:58 <seigex> they should be loosening up the NDA here soon... but if we start talking about it before hand.. then it won't be pretty for us and they'll start cracking down on the homebrew community
Jun 25 05:30:18 <quailish> no worries
Jun 25 05:34:32 <seigex> qualish, if you've already rooted your pre
Jun 25 05:34:33 <Robi-> woot, looks like we have an efnet channel too
Jun 25 05:34:40 <seigex> you can copy all the apps already on the phone to your pc
Jun 25 05:34:43 <seigex> like i did
Jun 25 05:34:45 <seigex> great reference
Jun 25 05:34:51 <seigex> hi robi
Jun 25 05:34:55 <seigex> we do?
Jun 25 05:34:58 <Robi-> #webosdev
Jun 25 05:34:59 <Webizard> yea it is a great ref.... i did that too
Jun 25 05:34:59 <Robi-> yo
Jun 25 05:36:03 <freakshow> evening
Jun 25 05:36:40 <rwhitby> Robi-: FYI, the efnet channel is not associated with this one, other than being a place we send people if they don't like this channel's policy :-)
Jun 25 05:37:10 <freakshow> haha
Jun 25 05:37:51 <quailish> yeah I haven't rooted my pre... makes playing around a bit more interesting
Jun 25 05:38:04 <quailish> (read: difficult)
Jun 25 05:38:20 <Robi-> rwhitby: good to know, rebels over there
Jun 25 05:38:45 <rwhitby> the world needs all sorts of communities ...
Jun 25 05:38:45 <Robi-> i was shamed today by my pre
Jun 25 05:38:53 <bpadalino> shamed ?
Jun 25 05:38:56 <Robi-> i had told a good friend that i could simply ssh to my cool device, yet come to find out ez-update didn't work!
Jun 25 05:39:05 <Robi-> at least his wifi pool was easy to guess.. so we got in anyway
Jun 25 05:41:53 <faithless> hello all
Jun 25 05:44:56 <destinal> quailish: just look at some of the code to existing apps that come with the phone
Jun 25 05:45:04 <freakshow> evening
Jun 25 05:45:29 <destinal> they're very instructional
Jun 25 05:45:58 <destinal> oh seigex already said that :)
Jun 25 05:46:00 <freakshow> ok so i tried to install my custom version of webOS with debugger running, it's erroring out while trying to run /sbin/tcpostflash.sh, when i look at tcpostflash.sh it's blank
Jun 25 05:46:15 <destinal> quailish:  you don't need to root it to read them, you can extract them from the doctor jar
Jun 25 05:50:25 <faithless> wow fully replacing the web os cool
Jun 25 05:50:38 <faithless> I am taking baby steps
Jun 25 05:51:18 <faithless> was nervous doing the add tabs hack
Jun 25 05:51:42 <gnuyen> is there an emulator for webos I can develop on?
Jun 25 05:52:15 <Robi-> not yet, but if you want u can try getting the webos image working on qemu
Jun 25 05:52:47 <gnuyen> does that work pretty well?
Jun 25 05:52:52 <gnuyen> i'm running linux
Jun 25 05:52:57 <Robi-> unknown
Jun 25 05:53:11 <electro66> has anyone had a problem getting usbnet working? i can't get usb0 to show up in the interfaces
Jun 25 05:53:20 <rwhitby> gnuyen: the person working on it so far has said it's too hard
Jun 25 05:53:45 <gnuyen> so basically all homebrew development on webos is done using sftp with an actual phone?
Jun 25 05:54:26 <rwhitby> gnuyen: some developers have the SDK, but can't tell you.
Jun 25 05:54:42 <rwhitby> e.g. the author of the tip calc app has the SDK
Jun 25 05:54:58 <gnuyen> jwz has it legally?
Jun 25 05:55:14 <gnuyen> or unknown
Jun 25 05:55:17 <rwhitby> he has it, I don't know under what terms.
Jun 25 05:55:25 <rwhitby> I presume legally, he's a well known dev.
Jun 25 05:55:29 <gnuyen> yeah
Jun 25 05:56:17 <rwhitby> (I got an email from him after 15 years since XEmacs yesterday :-)
Jun 25 05:56:24 <gnuyen> haha
Jun 25 05:56:41 <gnuyen> is there a linux sdk
Jun 25 05:56:46 <gnuyen> i know jwz is a mac guy now
Jun 25 05:56:48 <rwhitby> inside Palm, yes.
Jun 25 05:57:02 <rwhitby> windows, mac and linux inside Palm.
Jun 25 05:57:18 <rwhitby> I dunno what is in the released SDK
Jun 25 05:57:33 <rwhitby> I presume windows and mac, like the doctor.
Jun 25 05:57:54 <jterhune> So I was thinking about how one can prevent the Pre from suspending by playing audio through either the music player or pandora... does anyone happen to know if that is a function of a system call written into those applications, or of PulseAudio outputting sound?
Jun 25 05:59:33 <Robi-> something probably disables the sleep-on-timeout daemon
Jun 25 05:59:51 <Robi-> compare ps output when screen off to when playing music
Jun 25 05:59:53 <gnuyen> so assuming you don't have the sdk, you need a plam pre
Jun 25 06:00:03 <rwhitby> gnuyen: yep
Jun 25 06:00:13 <rwhitby> mdklein: patch updated
Jun 25 06:00:17 <jterhune> I got an app together (sort of) to enable ad-hoc networking, dhcp, etc. but it dies as soon as it sleeps. Kind of a pay to have to launch the music player to use ad-hoc
Jun 25 06:00:18 <Robi-> perhaps we need to set up 'guest' accounts on our phones :P
Jun 25 06:00:36 <rwhitby> Robi-: a couple of people have offered me just that.
Jun 25 06:01:15 <rwhitby> I've been able to get away with just using a rootfs extracted from the Doctor so far ...
Jun 25 06:01:28 <Robi-> ya you can jail it
Jun 25 06:01:45 <Robi-> hence the need for your 'tests'
Jun 25 06:05:38 <destinal> rwhitby: we need to get you an emulator
Jun 25 06:05:49 <destinal> or a pre :)
Jun 25 06:05:57 <summatusmentis> or a de... you beat me
Jun 25 06:06:13 <rwhitby> destinal: I've intentionally not applied for an emulator, since I would not want to accept the NDA.
Jun 25 06:06:30 <destinal> rwhitby: I don't mean a closed source emulator :)
Jun 25 06:06:35 <destinal> or an NDA
Jun 25 06:07:04 <rwhitby> I'd be happy to accept a Pre at any time ... :-)
Jun 25 06:07:20 <rwhitby> (even though I couldn't use the radio here)
Jun 25 06:07:45 <destinal> QEMU should work
Jun 25 06:07:50 <destinal> may take some mods
Jun 25 06:07:51 <summatusmentis> destinal: I agree, someone should get QEMU running
Jun 25 06:10:19 <Webizard> hey whats the command for copying /var/ to /media/internal again? is it xvcf?
Jun 25 06:10:48 <rwhitby> nope
Jun 25 06:10:58 <Robi-> cp -a
Jun 25 06:11:05 <rwhitby> sudo tar zcvf /media/internal/var.tar.gz /var
Jun 25 06:11:14 <rwhitby> don't put an 'x' in there.
Jun 25 06:11:25 <rwhitby> Robi-: cp -a will *not* work.
Jun 25 06:11:38 <rwhitby> cause /media/internal is vfat, so can't do symlinks or special files.
Jun 25 06:11:47 <Robi-> ah
Jun 25 06:12:24 <Robi-> fat16?32?
Jun 25 06:13:01 <Webizard> thanks!
Jun 25 06:13:05 <Robi-> aw fdisk not found
Jun 25 06:19:05 <Robi-> mkay , guest acct created..
Jun 25 06:26:04 <rulethirty> Greetings again, folks.  I have registered on PreDev wikidot and was going to post more details about tomorrows meetup in Mountain View
Jun 25 06:26:25 <rulethirty> but I am unable to
Jun 25 06:26:38 <rulethirty> says I must be a moderator/administrator to edit the page
Jun 25 06:26:41 <rulethirty> at any rate
Jun 25 06:26:55 <rulethirty> those four individuals wwho are in the bay area may be interested in it: http://www.meetup.com/palm-webos/
Jun 25 06:27:11 <rulethirty> ive seen jblebrun around i know
Jun 25 06:32:21 <rulethirty> is this thing on?
Jun 25 06:32:23 <rulethirty> :)
Jun 25 06:34:01 <Robi-> cool i'll update the page
Jun 25 06:34:23 <rwhitby> rulethirty: use the passwd I /msg'd you to join your account to the predev wiki
Jun 25 06:35:18 <rulethirty> k
Jun 25 06:37:05 <Technobabble> yarrr back
Jun 25 06:37:41 <rulethirty> blargh
Jun 25 06:37:54 <rulethirty> not familiar with this wiki markup
Jun 25 06:37:55 <rulethirty> heh
Jun 25 06:37:57 <rulethirty> ill wing it
Jun 25 06:38:05 <rulethirty> so anyhow
Jun 25 06:38:18 <Robi-> url is there
Jun 25 06:38:24 <Robi-> add more if u wish
Jun 25 06:38:26 <rulethirty> tomorrows meetup will be just a meet and greet / break-out / hackfest
Jun 25 06:38:33 <Robi-> time ?
Jun 25 06:38:39 <rulethirty> 7pm in MtnView
Jun 25 06:38:40 <Robi-> oic 7
Jun 25 06:39:06 <Robi-> redrock closer to central or camino
Jun 25 06:39:13 <Robi-> ?
Jun 25 06:39:27 <rulethirty> I am talking with someone at Palm who has introduced me to vp at pivotallabs, hopefully within the next week or two we can organize a speaker from them
Jun 25 06:39:34 <rulethirty> centra
Jun 25 06:39:57 <Robi-> k
Jun 25 06:39:59 <rulethirty> if just by a hair
Jun 25 06:40:15 <edektor> anybody see this http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2009/06/introducing-virtual-keyboard-api.html
Jun 25 06:40:22 <Robi-> heh used to live by there but those shops change often
Jun 25 06:40:23 <edektor> I wonder if that would be use for the pre
Jun 25 06:40:43 <rulethirty> yea, ive only been around here for a year
Jun 25 06:41:13 <rulethirty> looks promising edektor
Jun 25 06:41:18 <Robi-> also http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/24/htc-hero-hands-on/  see what android-bits look nice for ideas
Jun 25 06:42:21 <edektor> yeah it does.. I think it is still pretty young though
Jun 25 06:44:39 <rulethirty> Robi- hope you can make it if youre around
Jun 25 06:45:01 <rulethirty> but i really should be signing off; im smack in the middle of a datacenter move
Jun 25 06:45:18 <rulethirty> hope to see some of you folks there!
Jun 25 06:45:50 <Robi-> k i'll see if i can drop by
Jun 25 06:47:05 <Tilton53> Ok So today I learned the importance of checking syntax before running a find/rm command
Jun 25 06:47:08 <Tilton53> -.-
Jun 25 06:47:21 * Tilton53 removed most of the /bin dir on his server by accident
Jun 25 06:47:37 <noahbody> lol
Jun 25 06:47:43 <noahbody> could have been worse
Jun 25 06:47:50 <noahbody> rm -rf /*
Jun 25 06:47:52 <Tilton53> Yeah it could have
Jun 25 06:47:57 <Robi-> rsync with a brother ;]
Jun 25 06:48:01 <Tilton53> This stopped after it deleted rm itself
Jun 25 06:48:02 <Tilton53> XD
Jun 25 06:48:05 <Robi-> if rsync survived
Jun 25 06:48:14 <Tilton53> no
Jun 25 06:48:14 <Robi-> it did!
Jun 25 06:48:15 <Tilton53> XD
Jun 25 06:48:28 <Tilton53> I pretty much have mv and cp
Jun 25 06:48:33 <Tilton53> even ls got deleted
Jun 25 06:48:41 <Tilton53> I am lsing by using double-tab
Jun 25 06:48:43 <Tilton53> XD
Jun 25 06:48:56 <Robi-> woot for bash completion
Jun 25 06:49:01 <Robi-> scp ?
Jun 25 06:49:02 <Tilton53> on the bright side my ftp server and apache and znc server survied
Jun 25 06:49:03 <Tilton53> XD
Jun 25 06:49:11 <noahbody> i know someone that deleted su once
Jun 25 06:49:12 <Tilton53> so I am downloading a centos ISO
Jun 25 06:49:23 <Tilton53> and I am going to pull all the files from there I need
Jun 25 06:49:28 <Tilton53> and hopefully get it working
Jun 25 06:49:29 <Tilton53> <.<
Jun 25 06:49:31 <Robi-> dont you have another server?
Jun 25 06:49:42 <Tilton53> not with centos
Jun 25 06:49:43 <Tilton53> :/
Jun 25 06:49:55 <Tilton53> tthis is a vps
Jun 25 06:49:56 <Tilton53> XD
Jun 25 06:49:58 <Robi-> bring up a vm quick
Jun 25 06:50:14 <Tilton53> if this was ubuntu I'd be in great shape
Jun 25 06:50:45 <Technobabble> noahbody, lol
Jun 25 06:51:08 <Tilton53> unless somebody here with centos 5.2 i386 wants to package up their /bin into a nice zip for me
Jun 25 06:51:09 <Tilton53> XD
Jun 25 06:51:28 <Technobabble> i have centos 5.x
Jun 25 06:51:30 <Technobabble> one sec
Jun 25 06:51:33 <noahbody> i had a dedi once that had cpanel on it and i deleted a user and it rm'd the whole damn box for some reason
Jun 25 06:51:36 <Robi-> u have unzip ?
Jun 25 06:51:52 <Tilton53> I have a windows pc and an ftp server still running
Jun 25 06:52:01 <Tilton53> XD can ftp the files up and then cp them
Jun 25 06:52:14 <Technobabble> Tilton53, how do i tell what version i have?
Jun 25 06:52:20 <noahbody> wont the stuff have to be compiled in?
Jun 25 06:52:27 <Tilton53> noahbody
Jun 25 06:52:30 <noahbody> or can you just add them and have it work
Jun 25 06:52:39 <Tilton53> not if they are an i386 version
Jun 25 06:52:52 <Tilton53> Technobabble do you have an i386 comp or AMD?
Jun 25 06:53:14 <Technobabble> i386
Jun 25 06:53:17 <Tilton53> if it is an i386 package /bin up
Jun 25 06:53:21 <Tilton53> it can't hurt
Jun 25 06:53:22 <Tilton53> XD
Jun 25 06:53:27 <Tilton53> I mean they are already gone
Jun 25 06:53:33 <Tilton53> what is the worst that can happen
Jun 25 06:53:40 <noahbody> reimage
Jun 25 06:53:51 <Technobabble> hwo do i tell what version i have?
Jun 25 06:53:53 <noahbody> is it a remote server
Jun 25 06:53:57 <noahbody> uname -a?
Jun 25 06:54:04 <Tilton53> I could noahbody as a last resort
Jun 25 06:54:05 <Tilton53> >.>
Jun 25 06:54:34 <Tilton53> Tech cat /etc/redhat-release
Jun 25 06:54:45 <Tilton53> Technobabble ^
Jun 25 06:54:49 <Tilton53> just cat that file
Jun 25 06:54:58 <Technobabble> 2.6.9-55.0.9.EL #1 Thu Sep 27 18:10:45 EDT 2007 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
Jun 25 06:55:11 <Technobabble> 4.7
Jun 25 06:56:05 <Tilton53> :/
Jun 25 06:56:09 <Tilton53> damn
Jun 25 06:56:10 <Tilton53> nvm
Jun 25 06:56:16 <Technobabble> CentOS release 4.7 (Final)
Jun 25 06:56:21 <Tilton53> I am downloading a 5.3 image right now
Jun 25 06:56:37 <Tilton53> worst comes to worst I can image
Jun 25 06:56:39 <Technobabble> i would have if i could have, sorry
Jun 25 06:56:55 <Tilton53> but my vps provider is pretty nice, he might just zip another person's bin for me
Jun 25 06:56:56 <Tilton53> XD
Jun 25 06:57:10 <Technobabble> i have a really old dedi
Jun 25 06:57:14 <edektor> anybody know where the code for the dock is located on the webOS image
Jun 25 06:58:26 <noahbody> scp /home Tilton53 and save it on home pc
Jun 25 06:58:38 <noahbody> then reload it
Jun 25 06:58:53 <noahbody> probably the easiest way
Jun 25 06:58:57 <Tilton53> LOL
Jun 25 06:59:07 <Tilton53> if there wasn't 20 websites
Jun 25 06:59:11 <Tilton53> and 100 znc clients
Jun 25 06:59:12 <Tilton53> XD
Jun 25 06:59:20 <noahbody> oh
Jun 25 06:59:25 <Tilton53> yeah
Jun 25 06:59:27 <Tilton53> -.-
Jun 25 06:59:33 <noahbody> on a vps?
Jun 25 06:59:38 <Tilton53> but at least the server isn't really totally lost
Jun 25 06:59:39 <Tilton53> and yes
Jun 25 06:59:43 <Tilton53> on my vps
Jun 25 06:59:49 <Tilton53> I run a few diff servers
Jun 25 06:59:52 <Tilton53> and have shit spread out
Jun 25 06:59:53 <Tilton53> XD
Jun 25 06:59:55 <Tilton53> but yeah
Jun 25 07:00:01 <noahbody> i never had luck with a vps
Jun 25 07:00:09 <Tilton53> you need a good provider
Jun 25 07:00:17 <noahbody> usually pretty weak stuff
Jun 25 07:00:36 <noahbody> i have a dedi from server4you
Jun 25 07:00:54 <noahbody> makes a decent ircd hub
Jun 25 07:01:00 <noahbody> and for other stuff
Jun 25 07:03:34 <edektor> anybody?
Jun 25 07:04:23 <Tilton53> I get around 512mb of ram for 12 dollars a month
Jun 25 07:05:01 <Kaerey> anyone with a rooted pre and confidence to fix shit if it breaks wanna help me debug something
Jun 25 07:05:14 <Tilton53> XD Kearey
Jun 25 07:05:36 <Tilton53> this today has taught me the importance of backing up files you never thought would need backing up
Jun 25 07:05:36 <Tilton53> XD
Jun 25 07:07:04 <Kaerey> anyone wanna test an ipk of an app?
Jun 25 07:08:03 * rwhitby added a link to http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications/blobs/raw/master/browser/enable-browser-downloads.patch to the http://predev.wikidot.com/downloading-from-the-browser page.  How do we get the people contributing to that page to keep this patch file up to date?
Jun 25 07:08:29 <rwhitby> mdklein: ^^
Jun 25 07:09:54 <Technobabble> Tilton53, rdist?
Jun 25 07:10:24 <Tilton53> hmm Technobabble ?
Jun 25 07:10:41 <Technobabble> for your backups
Jun 25 07:11:53 <Technobabble> rwhitby, how do we use this .patch file here?
Jun 25 07:11:58 <Tilton53> ah
Jun 25 07:12:59 <Technobabble> have a look at it, and see if it'll help you out there
Jun 25 07:14:01 <rwhitby> Technobabble: it's patch that applies the mods to the Palm files on the pre.
Jun 25 07:14:07 <rwhitby> 'patch' is in optware.
Jun 25 07:14:21 <rwhitby> quilt and stgit are also in optware if you're an expert.
Jun 25 07:14:57 <Technobabble> i was actually tihnking of using your other walkthrough from yesterday, this one's automatic now?
Jun 25 07:15:06 <Tilton53> hey Technobabble can you go ahead and zip your /bin anyways for me
Jun 25 07:15:07 <Tilton53> XD
Jun 25 07:15:13 <Tilton53> I am running out of options
Jun 25 07:15:25 <rwhitby> Technobabble: which walkthrough?
Jun 25 07:15:35 <Technobabble> er, it wasn't a walkthrough
Jun 25 07:15:52 <Technobabble> http://predev.wikidot.com/downloading-from-the-browser
Jun 25 07:15:59 <rwhitby> it's just a patch file - there are multiple ways to apply and manage it.
Jun 25 07:16:08 <Technobabble> it's changed from last night, i see
Jun 25 07:16:33 <rwhitby> the patch is from mdklein - I don't know which version of that page it corresponds to
Jun 25 07:20:01 <Kaerey> http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1709226#post1709226
Jun 25 07:20:05 <Kaerey> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 25 07:23:04 * oc80z peeks in
Jun 25 07:23:09 <Technobabble> NICE
Jun 25 07:23:13 <Technobabble> minus the caps, sorry
Jun 25 07:23:50 <Kaerey> Oh. It's worth the caps!
Jun 25 07:24:25 <Technobabble> maybe a Nice! would have been a happy medium
Jun 25 07:25:03 <Technobabble> Tilton53, gimme the command you want to use to tar up the directory
Jun 25 07:25:10 <Technobabble> i don't remember off the top of my head how to do it
Jun 25 07:25:12 <Webizard> after ipkg-opt update installing php-thttpd returns error value 4: cannot find package
Jun 25 07:25:32 <Webizard> update,*
Jun 25 07:27:16 <Webizard> ?
Jun 25 07:27:33 <mikejaret> hey kaerey is this app better then pmp?
Jun 25 07:27:34 <Tilton53> Technobabble try 'tar cvzf bin.tzg /bin/*'
Jun 25 07:28:01 <Kaerey> well it doesn't pimp anything so yeah it's better
Jun 25 07:28:06 <Kaerey> but they are basically the same thing
Jun 25 07:28:54 <Kaerey> they have a button to reset to the default sounds. and are blatant about wanting to make money off website advertising. this source is posted at the gitorious site for all to see and I dont want any money
Jun 25 07:29:37 <Technobabble> there ya go, Tilton53
Jun 25 07:29:37 <mikejaret> noice
Jun 25 07:29:57 <mikejaret> i want a non root way to add and remove pages to my launcher...\
Jun 25 07:29:57 <Technobabble> Kaerey, NICE
Jun 25 07:30:04 <mikejaret> i dont feel like rooting my new pre
Jun 25 07:30:21 <mikejaret> and the ability to go into roam all the time mode...
Jun 25 07:30:45 <Webizard> .. /opt/bin/ipkg-opt install php-thttpd  returns connot find package. any suggestions?
Jun 25 07:31:45 <MTW> so
Jun 25 07:31:47 <MTW> tethering
Jun 25 07:31:49 <MTW> what's it all about
Jun 25 07:31:51 <Tilton53> thanks Technobabble
Jun 25 07:31:53 <MTW> is it cool or is it whack
Jun 25 07:31:53 <Tilton53> XD
Jun 25 07:32:04 <Tilton53> I actually tried uploading 'ls' from my ubuntu server
Jun 25 07:32:07 <Tilton53> o.o and it worked
Jun 25 07:32:08 <Technobabble> let me knwo if it works for you
Jun 25 07:32:09 <Tilton53> wth
Jun 25 07:32:32 <rwhitby> MTW: it's cool, but not here.
Jun 25 07:32:43 <rwhitby> haven't you asked that before?
Jun 25 07:34:27 <Tilton53> but hopefully this rpm works
Jun 25 07:34:28 <Tilton53> XD
Jun 25 07:35:27 <Tilton53> hmm rpm didn't work
Jun 25 07:35:28 <Tilton53> :/
Jun 25 07:35:54 <Kaerey> ok good night
Jun 25 07:44:43 <oc80z> rwhitby: do we need predev.wikidot.com/homebrew
Jun 25 07:45:06 <oc80z> eg; active list of tested homebrew apps.
Jun 25 07:46:16 <Tilton53> ok
Jun 25 07:46:18 <Tilton53> >.>
Jun 25 07:46:28 <Tilton53> So that worked but I still need to fix rpm and yum
Jun 25 07:46:46 <Tilton53> so first things first is to find a new version of /bin/rpm
Jun 25 07:46:52 <Tilton53> then I can update yum
Jun 25 07:46:53 <Tilton53> XD
Jun 25 07:51:23 <Kaerey> oc80z if you make it add http://predev.wikidot.com/my-notification to it
Jun 25 07:59:52 <Tilton53> >.>
Jun 25 07:59:56 <Tilton53> Umm nvm
Jun 25 08:00:08 <Tilton53> I did a ln -s to new .so files
Jun 25 08:00:11 <Tilton53> and it worked
Jun 25 08:00:12 <Tilton53> o.o
Jun 25 08:00:29 <Tilton53> o/ Linux more flexable then a russian gymanist
Jun 25 08:00:36 <oc80z> Heh.
Jun 25 08:00:46 <oc80z> Kaerey Yep
Jun 25 08:01:32 <oc80z> Kaerey having some issues with precentrals email , then click... tried to tinyurl -> your app, browser forks and loops popups
Jun 25 08:01:39 <oc80z> ill do it up Kaerey
Jun 25 08:03:20 <Kaerey> you can't short-url the ipk addresses
Jun 25 08:03:43 <Kaerey> it does into the loop you need to do the full address.
Jun 25 08:04:51 <Kaerey> you can try the link from www.carrytheone.org/webOS/org.webosinternals.kaerey.app.mynotification.ipk
Jun 25 08:20:19 <Webizard> invalid gzip magic.... i fixed this before but i can't remember how i did it... help
Jun 25 08:30:21 <Tilton53> thank Technobabble
Jun 25 08:30:29 <Tilton53> the rpm saved my ass
Jun 25 08:30:35 <Tilton53> I used it to fix 'yum'
Jun 25 08:30:40 <Tilton53> then did a 'yum update'
Jun 25 08:30:53 <Tilton53> and it updated all the /bin files to the lastest versions
Jun 25 08:30:54 <Tilton53> XD
Jun 25 08:30:58 <seigex> hi
Jun 25 08:32:50 <Tilton53> howdy
Jun 25 08:34:48 <Technobabble> the tar, you mean?
Jun 25 08:35:29 <Webizard> If your talking to me yes
Jun 25 08:35:38 <Tilton53> lol
Jun 25 08:35:48 <Tilton53> I just locked up my whole vps updating it with yum Kaerey
Jun 25 08:35:49 <Tilton53> XD
Jun 25 08:36:05 <Tilton53> can we say ops
Jun 25 08:36:06 <Tilton53> >.>
Jun 25 08:50:04 <oc80z> Kaerey u there
Jun 25 08:52:33 <oc80z> hi Stik
Jun 25 08:56:05 <oc80z> is this verified in 1.0.3
Jun 25 09:08:16 <oc80z> syas in the precentral forum it is..
Jun 25 09:08:48 <oc80z> wierd. this && tipcalc fail to install over email click, it highlights, 3 or 8 seconds, dehighlights.. nothin in the launcher
Jun 25 10:08:42 <Wizard_> Yea well my pre decided to lock me out.... why? i dunno. It has a mind of its own
Jun 25 10:13:06 <oc80z> nice
Jun 25 10:16:21 <Wizard_> nothin not usbnet/wifi/dns/novaproxy
Jun 25 10:16:30 <Wizard_> i dunno what happened lol
Jun 25 10:16:51 <seigex> hi
Jun 25 10:16:59 <Wizard_> hi
Jun 25 10:17:05 <seigex> <--- drunk
Jun 25 10:17:07 * seigex drunk
Jun 25 10:17:14 * seigex very drunk
Jun 25 10:17:17 <Wizard_> <--- jealous
Jun 25 10:17:44 <seigex> <-- still drunk
Jun 25 10:17:47 <seigex> jealous or not
Jun 25 10:17:51 <Wizard_> lol
Jun 25 10:18:49 <seigex> watching full metal jacket
Jun 25 10:18:57 <oc80z> good
Jun 25 10:18:58 <seigex> and havef to be up for wo in 4 hours
Jun 25 10:19:01 <seigex> have8
Jun 25 10:19:06 <seigex> have*
Jun 25 10:19:10 <seigex> work*
Jun 25 10:19:29 <oc80z> can you write a wiki real quick on how sprint is spying tnx.:D
Jun 25 10:20:04 <oc80z> they are watching what we do :(
Jun 25 10:20:07 <seigex> sprint's spying?
Jun 25 10:20:09 <oc80z> be skarred
Jun 25 10:20:10 <seigex> they are?'
Jun 25 10:20:15 <oc80z> heh im just fkin with u
Jun 25 10:20:15 <seigex> <-- skared
Jun 25 10:20:18 <seigex> hah
Jun 25 10:20:32 <seigex> i'm waiting till adam baldwin shows up
Jun 25 10:20:35 <seigex> then i'm going to bed
Jun 25 10:20:40 <seigex> *animal lover*
Jun 25 10:20:44 <oc80z> coo
Jun 25 10:20:53 <seigex> he rocks
Jun 25 10:21:46 <seigex> there he is
Jun 25 10:23:04 <seigex> animal mother is the shit
Jun 25 10:28:51 <seigex> aight i'm oput
Jun 25 10:28:53 <seigex> have a good night
Jun 25 10:30:45 <oc80z> yea yea...
Jun 25 10:31:08 <oc80z> has anyone booted backtrack or any other linuxlive OS from the pre yet
Jun 25 10:31:25 <oc80z> i think thats the best.
Jun 25 11:16:54 <oc80z> blau-mikeDG!
Jun 25 11:17:12 <blau-mikeDG> oc
Jun 25 11:38:32 <en0x> anyone got nice sound notifications for pimp my sounds?
Jun 25 11:53:48 <rwhitby> simplyflipflops: I've added a link to http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications/blobs/raw/master/email/prompt-for-ipk-installation.patch to http://predev.wikidot.com/email-app-patch-to-prompt-for-ipk-installation
Jun 25 12:36:41 <bpadalino> wow, lots of good new stuff here
Jun 25 12:49:43 <bdumm> bpadalino?
Jun 25 12:49:49 <bdumm> moaning btw
Jun 25 13:07:07 <Webizard> phone is refusing connections from everything.... including webdoc..pooooop
Jun 25 13:16:54 <Kaerey> morning all
Jun 25 13:29:40 <bpadalino|work> Webizard, turn the phone off .. unplug the USB .. hold the volume-up button and connect it to the USB - this will bring up a USB logo on the screen, and you will be able to use the web doctor
Jun 25 13:29:47 <bpadalino|work> bdumm, hi
Jun 25 13:46:38 <bpadalino|work> so one issue i have that i noticed this morning was that there is no voicemail aspect to the top bar ... so if i have a voicemail, i have to go into the phone app to see that it's there :(
Jun 25 13:47:25 <mikewx> i get voicemail notifications on the bottom of the screen
Jun 25 13:48:03 <bpadalino|work> right - but if you throw them away, gotta go into the phone app itself to see its there
Jun 25 13:48:22 <mikewx> ah
Jun 25 13:48:29 <bpadalino|work> i guess the obvious thing to do is make sure you don't throw away the notification
Jun 25 13:49:36 <mikewx> i generally check mine pretty quick, but i think it comes back when you power cycle the phone. not really sure though
Jun 25 13:49:52 <bpadalino|work> interesting - i guess i didn't power cycle last night
Jun 25 13:50:15 <bpadalino|work> do you use your phone in vibrate mode ?
Jun 25 13:51:16 <bpadalino|work> i was in a meeting the other day, missed a call and the phone decided to play a noise :(
Jun 25 13:55:43 <mikewx> yeah during meetings
Jun 25 13:55:55 <mikewx> i don't like their new implementation of vibrate mode
Jun 25 13:56:04 <mikewx> the switch should mute EVERYTHING
Jun 25 13:57:02 <mikewx> I was at a club meeting tuesday, the speaker was getting a bit boring so I switched it to vibrate and decided I'd try to learn more about and understand how Pandora works... (yeah, pre is my first experience with Pandora).. That didn't go so well when it started playing loud in the middle of hte meeting
Jun 25 13:58:27 <blau-mikeDG> lol
Jun 25 13:58:40 <blau-mikeDG> mike: thats one of the fun features on these new phones
Jun 25 13:58:46 <tonycpsu> hopefully something comes along like Profiles for the Treo, that could make it a lot less of an issue
Jun 25 13:58:50 <blau-mikeDG> independent media and ringtone/notificaion volumes
Jun 25 13:59:02 <blau-mikeDG> android does it too
Jun 25 13:59:07 <blau-mikeDG> i think its a horrible horrible idea
Jun 25 13:59:37 <tonycpsu> i had the same thing happen yesterday, luckily i was just in my office and not in a meeting
Jun 25 13:59:52 <mikewx> independant volumes fine
Jun 25 13:59:53 <bromius> I agree, that was a major plus for the Treo line... if that switch was set to vibrate, you knew the phone wasn't going to make one d#mn peep
Jun 25 13:59:57 <mikewx> but MUTE is MUTE is MUTE
Jun 25 14:00:00 <tonycpsu> if I had profiles, i could just say 8am-6-pm is quiet time
Jun 25 14:00:11 <blau-mikeDG> get working on that stuff :)
Jun 25 14:00:22 <mikewx> i've always liked notebooks with a hardware mute switch for that reason too
Jun 25 14:00:41 <tonycpsu> it's something that could theoretically be done with a kernel hook to just completely mute the audio device via a system call
Jun 25 14:01:02 <mikewx> cut power to audio amp :)
Jun 25 14:01:48 <blau-mikeDG> im not sure i like/dislike notification sounds not coming through bluetooth
Jun 25 14:01:52 <tonycpsu> it's really something they should have thought about, though.  lots of puzzling design decisions
Jun 25 14:02:13 <mikewx> my monorpice order arrived yesterday
Jun 25 14:02:27 <mikewx> i have microusb cables coming out my...nevermind. lets just say i hav a lot of them
Jun 25 14:05:19 <bpadalino|work> ha
Jun 25 14:05:42 <bpadalino|work> cutting the PA for the audio wouldn't allow for voice calls to come through if the switch were on .. without some more logic
Jun 25 14:06:35 <mikewx> there you go blasting my half-thought out off the cuff ideas with reality. you must be a manager :)
Jun 25 14:06:50 <bpadalino|work> i'm actually an engineer :(
Jun 25 14:07:17 <blau-mikeDG> mike: do the cables work?
Jun 25 14:07:24 <blau-mikeDG> which ones i want to order a handful
Jun 25 14:07:38 <mikewx> blau-mikeDG: so far the 2 i have used both work
Jun 25 14:07:44 <bpadalino|work> they're micro A-B connectors ?
Jun 25 14:07:46 <mikewx> i bought an assortment of 3' and 1'
Jun 25 14:08:01 <mikewx> normal to micro
Jun 25 14:08:29 <mikewx> USB-MicroUSB4-03 was the 3' part number
Jun 25 14:08:32 <mikewx> er wrong
Jun 25 14:08:39 <mikewx> USB-MicroUSB5-03
Jun 25 14:09:04 <mikewx> the 1' was USB-AB(M5)F-MM-01
Jun 25 14:09:06 <tonycpsu> has anyone found a way for homebrew apps to invoke shell scripts yet?
Jun 25 14:09:20 <bpadalino|work> tonycpsu, you can install a service that will do that
Jun 25 14:09:32 <tonycpsu> any info about it on the wiki yet?
Jun 25 14:09:34 <bpadalino|work> the service is written in java and callable through Mojo
Jun 25 14:09:37 <bpadalino|work> let me check
Jun 25 14:09:47 <tonycpsu> hm. that's good news.
Jun 25 14:09:53 <tonycpsu> that's the only real missing piece of a profiles-like application
Jun 25 14:10:09 <tonycpsu> well, that and the ability to sit in the background
Jun 25 14:10:20 <blau-mikeDG> mike: where do I see the part numbers?
Jun 25 14:10:21 <bpadalino|work> mojo apps can directly sit in the background ..
Jun 25 14:10:25 <bpadalino|work> like the mail app
Jun 25 14:10:29 <mikewx> i copied them off of the plastic bags :)
Jun 25 14:10:34 <mikewx> let me see if i can find yo a link
Jun 25 14:10:35 <blau-mikeDG> oh lol
Jun 25 14:10:41 <tonycpsu> yeah, but have homebrewers gotten it going?
Jun 25 14:10:44 <blau-mikeDG> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030307&p_id=5137&seq=1&format=2
Jun 25 14:10:53 <bpadalino|work> tonycpsu, a pure mojo app should be able to do the profiles ..
Jun 25 14:10:59 <blau-mikeDG> i just wanna make sure i get the exact same ones since ive heard a handful of people bitching
Jun 25 14:11:35 <bpadalino|work> tonycpsu, there is a chapter about running headless in the webOS rough cuts book
Jun 25 14:11:37 <mikewx> doh my account history doesn't give me links
Jun 25 14:11:43 <tonycpsu> i should pick up that book
Jun 25 14:11:53 <bpadalino|work> it's less than $20 i am pretty sure
Jun 25 14:11:58 <bpadalino|work> at least for the pdf version
Jun 25 14:12:16 <tonycpsu> so there are mojo calls to set ring/notification/music volume independently?
Jun 25 14:12:24 <shades> yea, i'm SURE it's less than $20's for the .pdf version ;)
Jun 25 14:12:31 <tonycpsu> but palm just didn't give them a UI?
Jun 25 14:12:42 <tonycpsu> well, didn't hook them to the ringer switch, that is
Jun 25 14:12:43 <bpadalino|work> tonycpsu, yes - i am guessing they didn't have time to make something
Jun 25 14:12:52 <bpadalino|work> they use getVolume calls ..
Jun 25 14:12:57 <bpadalino|work> and other such things
Jun 25 14:12:59 <mikewx> ah, there you go. I ordered #'s: 5456, 5457 and 5137, 4867 in case the first 2 didn't work
Jun 25 14:13:00 <tonycpsu> gotcha
Jun 25 14:13:05 <blau-mikeDG> thanks
Jun 25 14:13:20 <mikewx> the sub $1 ones seem to work :)
Jun 25 14:13:20 <bpadalino|work> tonycpsu, i have a feeling the applications will get more polish in the upcoming months ..
Jun 25 14:13:28 <bpadalino|work> seeing as how the 1.0 webos didn't even come with a clock/alarm
Jun 25 14:13:32 <mikewx> might be some trasnfer errors i haven't tested much
Jun 25 14:13:35 <bpadalino|work> rather, 1.0.1 i think ?
Jun 25 14:13:59 <tonycpsu> bpadalino|work: yeah, no doubt.  i just know a lot of folks are impatient, and the lack of profiles is the hardest thing to get used to coming from my treo
Jun 25 14:14:14 <tonycpsu> well, that and the inability to use a stylus or fingernails on the screen
Jun 25 14:14:29 <bpadalino|work> yeah, the fingernails isn't going to get fixed ..
Jun 25 14:14:33 <bpadalino|work> you can get a stylus for capacitive use
Jun 25 14:14:38 <blau-mikeDG> i like resistive screens :(
Jun 25 14:14:55 <bpadalino|work> i really love these capacitive screens
Jun 25 14:15:03 <Kaerey> Oh! Treo-schmeo I haven't looked back. Of course I was most recently on an 800w
Jun 25 14:15:08 <blau-mikeDG> capacitive basically turns the screens into 48x48 blocks of buttons
Jun 25 14:15:28 <bpadalino|work> you get better resolution than that
Jun 25 14:15:33 <tonycpsu> barely
Jun 25 14:15:43 <tonycpsu> i'm with blau-mikeDG on this one.  i'll get used to it, but i'm not thrilled about it
Jun 25 14:15:45 <bpadalino|work> otherwise the zoom wouldn't have the granularity it has
Jun 25 14:16:01 <blau-mikeDG> yeah for relative positioning
Jun 25 14:16:14 <blau-mikeDG> but absolutely hitting and specific location you dont really get any fine grained control
Jun 25 14:16:28 <bpadalino|work> because you have to use your finger ?
Jun 25 14:16:31 <blau-mikeDG> yeah
Jun 25 14:16:45 <tonycpsu> right
Jun 25 14:17:01 <blau-mikeDG> and a stylus isnt an option until phones start coming with slots for them
Jun 25 14:17:59 <bpadalino|work> http://forum.brighthand.com/showthread.php?t=256174 - there's one that looks like a pen
Jun 25 14:19:09 <tonycpsu> screw that, i'm going to go to the plastic surgeon and have a little rubber tip installed on my index finger
Jun 25 14:20:00 <bpadalino|work> press on nail with a little nub at the end
Jun 25 14:21:03 <firestorm> Good morning hackers!
Jun 25 14:23:06 <tonycpsu> 'mornin
Jun 25 14:24:00 <firestorm> yay, there is someone else in here. :P
Jun 25 14:24:09 <bpadalino|work> we're all very shy
Jun 25 14:25:17 <firestorm> Has anyone tried the debian chroot DOOM install yet?  I tried but was not successful, SDL was freaking out post DirectFB int and short of compiling SDL by hand (ick.) wanted to see if someone had any suggestions.
Jun 25 14:25:56 <bpadalino|work> yeah, nebula is your man to talk to
Jun 25 14:25:59 <bpadalino|work> he knows all that stuff
Jun 25 14:26:25 <firestorm> Doh.. :(
Jun 25 14:26:44 <bpadalino|work> sorry :(
Jun 25 14:26:46 <firestorm> I don't see him in the roster, so I guess he's not here.
Jun 25 14:27:04 <bpadalino|work> nebula is listed in the channel
Jun 25 14:27:11 <firestorm> Is ok.  Has any of you all found the first pic ever taken off of your phone?
Jun 25 14:27:13 <bpadalino|work> he's just idle
Jun 25 14:27:17 <bpadalino|work> yes
Jun 25 14:27:42 <firestorm> oh yeah, I see him now, i scrolled too fast..
Jun 25 14:28:18 <blau-mikeDG> shit i probably lost the pic if i did a doctor restore right?
Jun 25 14:28:54 <firestorm> I have been wondering about this phone's java implementation, in the Youtube app folder there's a folder called test that has a PHP script in it.  Has anyone looked at the script?  Apparently this thing does cURL but the trick is getting it to render PHP pages.
Jun 25 14:29:26 <firestorm> Blau:  look in /var/log/hwtest/ted/pics
Jun 25 14:29:41 <blau-mikeDG> how do capacitive styluss work?
Jun 25 14:29:49 <blau-mikeDG> are there batteries?
Jun 25 14:29:58 <firestorm> no..
Jun 25 14:30:22 <firestorm> most touch screens work off of resistance, measuring the resistance between points on the touch surface
Jun 25 14:30:49 <firestorm> this one works off of capacitance, or the ability to hold a charge.  Two charges = multitouch, single charge = single touch
Jun 25 14:31:20 <zule> The stylus just needs to be slightly conductive
Jun 25 14:31:46 <firestorm> Or, better yet.. two charges = one finger, 3 charges = two fingers.
Jun 25 14:34:19 <blau-mikeDG> if i wanted to learn more abotu this, what should i be looking up?
Jun 25 14:34:20 <mikewx> i tried peeling off some dead skin and attaching it to an old stylus. besides an object less on on how much ihate this screen it also provided me with information that it didn't work :(
Jun 25 14:35:19 <bpadalino|work> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#Capacitive
Jun 25 14:36:28 <Freakshow> Hey all
Jun 25 14:37:08 <Freakshow> got a question if anyone would be up to helping me. Anyone familiar with bypassing the activation process?
Jun 25 14:37:18 <bpadalino|work> i am not :(
Jun 25 14:37:43 <firestorm> not a clue...
Jun 25 14:38:03 <Freakshow> ah darn. Worked on it for 7 hours last night following the method on the wiki and it keeps failing
Jun 25 14:38:05 <bpadalino|work> i think there is a wiki page on it
Jun 25 14:38:10 <bpadalino|work> keeps failing, huh ?
Jun 25 14:38:14 <bpadalino|work> how does it fail ?
Jun 25 14:38:41 <Freakshow> yeah after 14%. Command line logs show its failing while running tcpost.sh
Jun 25 14:39:33 <Freakshow> Which references the mkbootfs.sh script
Jun 25 14:40:12 <bpadalino|work> that shell script makes sure the filesystem was created and mounted properly i am pretty sure
Jun 25 14:40:13 <Freakshow> both of those are in /sbin
Jun 25 14:40:43 <bpadalino|work> lets look at the script
Jun 25 14:41:21 <Freakshow> yeah and it shows that 6 logical volumes are successfully mounted. Wondering if my extraction method corrupts the image...
Jun 25 14:41:50 <bpadalino|work> how far into mkbootfs.sh do you get ?
Jun 25 14:42:12 <blau-mikeDG> lol i added a new contact shortcut and forgot about it
Jun 25 14:42:22 <blau-mikeDG> it doesnt really work though :(
Jun 25 14:42:43 <Freakshow> not sure, it says that it discovered 6 logical volumes and then starts erroring out after listing the first three
Jun 25 14:43:08 <en0x> is there a way to type only number without pressing orange button?
Jun 25 14:43:12 <bpadalino|work> freakshow, can you paste the log to webos.pastebin.com ?
Jun 25 14:43:28 <en0x> like two fast pushes of the orange button will only enter numbers etc
Jun 25 14:43:41 <bpadalino|work> en0x, where do you want to enter numbers ?
Jun 25 14:43:51 <bpadalino|work> i am not sure there is a numlock
Jun 25 14:43:59 <en0x> in html forms for example
Jun 25 14:44:08 <en0x> because in some it switches automatically to numbers
Jun 25 14:44:21 <bpadalino|work> yeah, sorry - i am not aware of a numlock
Jun 25 14:44:25 <en0x> [in some not and if I want to type 43564 i have to press and hold orange button and press numbers
Jun 25 14:44:29 <Freakshow> I'll have to do that later, I actually need to head out to a meeting. Sorry for the quick pop in and out
Jun 25 14:44:38 <en0x> which kinda sucks
Jun 25 14:44:58 <en0x> or the same thing if you want to type someones phone number
Jun 25 14:45:32 <bpadalino|work> if you're in the dialer or the universal search
Jun 25 14:45:34 <bpadalino|work> and type a number
Jun 25 14:45:36 <bpadalino|work> it should just work
Jun 25 14:46:27 <tonycpsu> uh, double-tap orange engages num-lock
Jun 25 14:46:30 <tonycpsu> actually "orange-lock"
Jun 25 14:46:33 <bpadalino|work> oh it does ?
Jun 25 14:46:51 <en0x> i tried that
Jun 25 14:46:53 <tonycpsu> yeah, the little blue dot turns black
Jun 25 14:46:53 <en0x> and it didnt
Jun 25 14:46:54 <en0x> hmm
Jun 25 14:47:18 <en0x> lemme try again
Jun 25 14:47:22 <tonycpsu> shuft-lock works as well
Jun 25 14:47:23 <bpadalino|work> well there you go
Jun 25 14:47:25 <tonycpsu> uh, shift
Jun 25 14:47:41 <tonycpsu> we really need keycaps600 though
Jun 25 14:48:18 <bpadalino|work> i have never used a treo device before, so i odn't know what that does
Jun 25 14:48:22 <tonycpsu> http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/335-1.htm
Jun 25 14:48:40 <tonycpsu> i had mine set up for double-tap to shift, tap-and-hold to do num/punct
Jun 25 14:49:13 <bpadalino|work> neat
Jun 25 14:49:16 <bpadalino|work> that isn't too bad
Jun 25 14:50:07 <tonycpsu> the developer has a pre now and said he'd give it a go, but i'm skeptical the SDK will provide enough functionality to override the input device
Jun 25 14:50:34 <tonycpsu> which is what led me to try messwing with the kernel in the first place
Jun 25 14:50:37 <tonycpsu> -w
Jun 25 14:50:47 <blau-mikeDG> hmmm pre cant text to an email address :/
Jun 25 14:51:05 <firestorm> just take care if you set up an email account
Jun 25 14:51:09 <bpadalino|work> text/im and email are kind of different paradigms :(
Jun 25 14:51:12 <firestorm> Synergy raped my contacts list... :P
Jun 25 14:51:29 <bpadalino|work> tonycpsu, yeah - i wonder as well ..
Jun 25 14:51:44 <blau-mikeDG> i wish people would stop bitching about synergy
Jun 25 14:51:53 <bpadalino|work> i am honestly not sure how keys are conveyed up to luna
Jun 25 14:51:59 <bpadalino|work> i was looking at the symbol list
Jun 25 14:52:08 <bpadalino|work> and making that into an on-screen keyboard
Jun 25 14:52:10 <tonycpsu> it's really low level.  there's no activity on dbus or any system calls in the hidd process i could find
Jun 25 14:52:48 <bpadalino|work> yeah, i suppose you'd have to edit the maxim driver in the kernel
Jun 25 14:53:02 <tonycpsu> you can cat /dev/input/keypad0 to see some activity , but you can't write anything to it to inject keystrokes
Jun 25 14:53:30 <bpadalino|work> do any processes have /dev/input/keypad0 open when you do an lsof ?
Jun 25 14:53:32 <tonycpsu> yeah, that's what i was going to do, if only to keep my sanity when i try to type the way i'm used to from my Treo
Jun 25 14:53:40 <tonycpsu> just hidd
Jun 25 14:53:59 <tonycpsu> but strace doesn't show anything i can work with
Jun 25 14:54:27 <en0x> blau-mikeDG: i send txt thru emails
Jun 25 14:54:30 <en0x> works fine
Jun 25 14:55:20 <bpadalino|work> ah, makes sense for hidd to have it open ..
Jun 25 14:55:22 <en0x> but what it is thathe receiver gets two emails one is some useless junk and other one is sms
Jun 25 14:55:24 <bpadalino|work> you know ..
Jun 25 14:55:26 <bpadalino|work> what you COULD do
Jun 25 14:55:39 <bpadalino|work> is make a new device node ..
Jun 25 14:55:44 <blau-mikeDG> en0x: emails thru txt
Jun 25 14:55:52 <bpadalino|work> change /dev/input/keypad0 to /dev/input/keypad1 and make your own keypad0
Jun 25 14:55:59 <bpadalino|work> for interception
Jun 25 14:56:04 <en0x> blau-mikeDG: oh idnt got what u said before
Jun 25 14:56:08 <tonycpsu> hm
Jun 25 14:56:13 <firestorm> I think that Synergy is a good design, but it assumes that people actually maintain their contact lists on their email sites.  I do not, and ended up with over a thousand contacts with just email addressess.  I'm not sure that I could even find the phone number to phishing@ebay.com
Jun 25 14:56:32 <bpadalino|work> tonycpsu, that way - you just have to count the time between presses, and do the remapping there
Jun 25 14:56:40 <firestorm> It needs an opt-in/opt-out model.  Other than that, it's fine.
Jun 25 14:56:41 <blau-mikeDG> fire: who cares? why would you ever scroll through all your contacts to find someone?
Jun 25 14:57:03 <en0x> i use universal search for contacts
Jun 25 14:57:07 <tonycpsu> the thing is, i don't know the interface between hidd and the plugin it's using to read the keyboard
Jun 25 14:57:11 <en0x> fast as shit and don;t have to scroll
Jun 25 14:57:18 <firestorm> I don't, but I'd like the option NOT to flood a contact list just because I wanted to send an MMS.
Jun 25 14:57:39 <bpadalino|work> tonycpsu, well - you could always experiment
Jun 25 14:57:46 <bpadalino|work> but it seems like it's just a literal translation ?
Jun 25 14:57:54 <tonycpsu> yeah.  i was experimenting with the kernel hack instead because i know what to do there
Jun 25 14:58:00 <bpadalino|work> ah
Jun 25 14:58:12 <bpadalino|work> gotcha
Jun 25 14:58:17 <firestorm> I don't, but I'd like the option NOT to flood a contact list just because I wanted to send an MMS.
Jun 25 14:58:26 <firestorm> sorry, didn't mean to double post.
Jun 25 14:58:32 <tonycpsu> i think it's more than translation.  hidd monitors a bunch of inputs, the keypad is just one of them
Jun 25 14:58:49 <tonycpsu> it uses the file /etc/hidd/HidPlugins.xml to specify the inputs
Jun 25 14:58:59 <tonycpsu> and there are a bunch of .so files in there that do the work
Jun 25 14:59:16 <tonycpsu> i think i'd have to know how to build one of those to whatever interface hidd uses for its plugins
Jun 25 15:00:16 <bpadalino|work> gotcha
Jun 25 15:00:26 <bpadalino|work> i guess the kernel hack might be the best way to go about it then ..
Jun 25 15:00:37 <bpadalino|work> it would have been nicer if the keypad were installed as a module instead of directly in the kernel
Jun 25 15:01:27 <tonycpsu> yeah, it would.
Jun 25 15:02:18 <tonycpsu> unfortunately, for some reason, when i load and boot a custom kernel, the backlight won't turn off
Jun 25 15:02:33 <bpadalino|work> haha
Jun 25 15:02:34 <tonycpsu> it appears to be a kernel module that won't load
Jun 25 15:02:44 <bpadalino|work> lsmod is the same for both ?
Jun 25 15:02:46 <tonycpsu> my first try the wifi driver wouldn't load, but i figured that out
Jun 25 15:02:48 <bpadalino|work> does your touchscreen work ?
Jun 25 15:02:55 <bpadalino|work> why didn't the wifi driver work ?
Jun 25 15:02:57 <tonycpsu> yeah, touchscreen works fine
Jun 25 15:03:11 <tonycpsu> i hadn't symlinked the /lib/modules/... directory
Jun 25 15:03:20 <tonycpsu> that was just ID-10-T error
Jun 25 15:03:22 <bpadalino|work> interesting the backlight won't turn off ..
Jun 25 15:03:24 <bpadalino|work> heh
Jun 25 15:03:30 <bpadalino|work> i've had plenty of those
Jun 25 15:03:38 <bpadalino|work> do you see the message go over the dbus to turn the backlight off ?
Jun 25 15:03:52 <tonycpsu> hadn't gotten that far yet
Jun 25 15:04:32 <bpadalino|work> ah
Jun 25 15:04:54 <tonycpsu> the driver in question is drivers/usb/gadget/composite.ko
Jun 25 15:05:03 <firestorm> Just out of curiosity, has anyone figured out how to make a card call a commandline script?
Jun 25 15:05:24 <bpadalino|work> firestorm, yes - you need to install a service that listens .. this has been done by PreGame using a java service
Jun 25 15:05:28 <bpadalino|work> tonycpsu, interesting
Jun 25 15:05:51 <mdklein> basically hidd creates sockets in /tmp/hidd maybe you could man in the middle those sockets
Jun 25 15:05:57 <firestorm> I'll have to research. thanks for the point in the right direction.
Jun 25 15:06:15 <tonycpsu> hm
Jun 25 15:06:16 <bpadalino|work> firestorm, no problemo
Jun 25 15:09:19 <tonycpsu> BTW, any way to nuke the sleep/wakeup messages on the console when sshing in?
Jun 25 15:09:28 <tonycpsu> other than leaving the screen/wifi on
Jun 25 15:10:08 <bpadalino|work> if you stop the powerd
Jun 25 15:10:11 <bpadalino|work> it should keep you on
Jun 25 15:10:23 <bpadalino|work> initctl stop powerd ?
Jun 25 15:12:08 <tonycpsu> doesn't appear to be started in init.d
Jun 25 15:12:30 <tonycpsu> i could just kill it
Jun 25 15:13:23 <tonycpsu> nah, init respawns it
Jun 25 15:13:37 <tonycpsu> meh
Jun 25 15:14:01 <djk1> anyone here using a skin to protect against scratches?
Jun 25 15:14:05 <mdklein> use "initctl stop powerd"
Jun 25 15:14:46 <tonycpsu> bah, /sbin wasn't in my path
Jun 25 15:14:53 <tonycpsu> yeah, that works.
Jun 25 15:15:15 <mdklein> /etc/event.d is where ya should be looking
Jun 25 15:15:21 <mikewx> djk1: i still have the factory one one, but  got my invisibleshield to install
Jun 25 15:15:42 <mikewx> i just cut the tab off the top
Jun 25 15:15:54 <firestorm> lol, me too
Jun 25 15:16:23 <firestorm> for a factory protector, works pretty darn good. :)
Jun 25 15:16:29 <Kaerey> LOL is it wrong I've been spreading "Change your Notification sound with http://bit.ly/yaWhO Click the link to email to you, then open the link from the #palm #pre" when ever someone asks about Pre Apps?
Jun 25 15:16:41 <djk1> deciding between invisibleshield and bodyguardz
Jun 25 15:17:32 <djk1> was using the factory one until it pulled off too often and would stick
Jun 25 15:18:24 <djk1> I saw the invisibleshield one and it seems hazy and a bit sticky. The bodyguardz reads like it is clear and smoother
Jun 25 15:33:22 <psykoz> djk1, I've played with the zagg one and was mostly impressed, it is a bit sticky but it actually felt like it improved screen response more than naked screen
Jun 25 15:40:28 <Binarytech> Morning everyone
Jun 25 15:41:13 <blau-mikeDG> Pre Iran!
Jun 25 15:41:59 <hemna|work> ?
Jun 25 15:45:42 <Binarytech> que
Jun 25 15:49:45 <tivon> any recommended DDNS services? there's alot on that list
Jun 25 15:50:11 <tivon> http://predev.wikidot.com/ddns-update
Jun 25 15:56:53 <blau-mikeDG> anyone found an app that plays any audio besides music player and pandroa
Jun 25 15:57:38 <mikewx> aplay?
Jun 25 16:00:35 <blau-mikeDG> aplay?
Jun 25 16:06:46 <mikewx> play audio from shell on pre
Jun 25 16:07:20 <blau-mikeDG> ah
Jun 25 16:07:42 <blau-mikeDG> im just trying to figure out how the hell to play a sound that isnt one of the hardcoded system sounds
Jun 25 16:09:55 <blau-mikeDG> touchstone appears to gobble 150mah
Jun 25 16:10:27 <blau-mikeDG> if im reading this right
Jun 25 16:10:43 <bromius> blau-mikeDG: what do you mean by that?
Jun 25 16:10:45 <blau-mikeDG> oh bah actually it was commented out, so maybe its wrong
Jun 25 16:10:59 <blau-mikeDG> 		/* current should be 700
Jun 25 16:10:59 <blau-mikeDG> 		if (data.current_mA != 700)
Jun 25 16:10:59 <blau-mikeDG> 			this.isChargingFromTouchstone = false;
Jun 25 16:10:59 <blau-mikeDG> 		*/
Jun 25 16:11:13 <blau-mikeDG> the output on the palm chargers are 850 arent they?
Jun 25 16:11:14 <blau-mikeDG> or 1 amp?
Jun 25 16:12:12 <Sargun> let me see
Jun 25 16:12:48 <Sargun> It isn't labelled on the charger
Jun 25 16:12:54 <blau-mikeDG> its gotta be somewhere
Jun 25 16:17:58 <Lurking_Grue> I know there are messages in /var/log/messages that show the current I think.
Jun 25 16:18:17 <bpadalino|work> touchstone can't charge from USB, so 700mA sounds about right
Jun 25 16:20:00 <cphelps> How is everyone this morning?
Jun 25 16:21:23 <blau-mikeDG> jizical
Jun 25 16:21:43 * mikeDOTd hands blau-mikeDG a tissue
Jun 25 16:22:37 <cphelps> mikeDOTd: Awfully nice of you to get that close to a man holding his cock with one hand and extending the other in your direction.
Jun 25 16:26:25 <cphelps> Has rwhitby gone to sleep?
Jun 25 16:28:42 <bpadalino|work> yeah i believe he is sleeping
Jun 25 16:28:57 <bpadalino|work> he's GMT+9h30m
Jun 25 16:33:56 <cphelps> bpadalino|work: and here I was ready to get going with his git plans
Jun 25 16:36:28 <Rick_> back
Jun 25 16:37:02 <oc80z> yo
Jun 25 16:38:14 <cphelps> Rick_: Whats on the docket for today?
Jun 25 16:41:26 <Rick_> I don't know.  I went to bed at 2300 CDT.   Which was before Rod went to lunch.
Jun 25 16:41:48 <Rick_> I know that PreGame did _not_ have the flashlight IPK installing as of 10:30 cdt this morning.
Jun 25 16:42:11 <Rick_> have you attempted building an ipk for the download fix?
Jun 25 16:42:36 <cphelps> Rick_: That's bumming me out. If I don't have anything to work on for today, I might have to resort to real work
Jun 25 16:42:48 <Rick_> basically,  I think everyone's focus is on attempting to get a -clearly documented- way to build apps that work.
Jun 25 16:42:56 <Rick_> Ok Chris, here's an idea for you.
Jun 25 16:43:00 <cphelps> Rick_: No, too much palm code to make a package out of it
Jun 25 16:43:17 <Rick_> ok.
Jun 25 16:43:23 <Rick_> well....  hmmm
Jun 25 16:43:25 <cphelps> Rick_: I would consider it if we had patch on busybox
Jun 25 16:43:33 <Rick_> ok, here's an idea for you.
Jun 25 16:43:53 <Rick_> if you install PreGame's flashlight app....   then his service is exposed to mojo.
Jun 25 16:44:17 <cphelps> Rick_: already done. That's how I built my USB "T" app.
Jun 25 16:44:49 <Rick_> So...   someone needs to write a simple two-box one-button app that calls PreGame's runCMD that has a box to enter a command, a button to run it, and a box to get the reply.
Jun 25 16:45:15 <Rick_> so that you could do non-edit command line stuff FROM LUNA  instead of via SSH
Jun 25 16:45:30 <cphelps> Rick_: I feel you.
Jun 25 16:45:32 <Rick_> that doesn't get us an actual TERMINAL  but it's 80% of the function
Jun 25 16:45:57 <cphelps> Rick_: I didn't check to see if his service returns output
Jun 25 16:46:03 <cphelps> Rick_: can you confirm that?
Jun 25 16:48:24 <Rick_> I can
Jun 25 16:48:32 <Rick_> he verified yesterday that it returns output
Jun 25 16:48:41 <Rick_> and proved it with a luna call from ssh
Jun 25 16:49:43 <Technobabble> hey guys
Jun 25 16:50:41 <cphelps> Rick_: Well, hopefully I have that version :-)
Jun 25 16:51:20 <cphelps> Rick_: Half hour, maybe 45 minutes.
Jun 25 16:51:25 <Rick_> it's the ONLY version
Jun 25 16:53:04 <cphelps> Rick_: We should have him package the service separate from the app
Jun 25 16:53:10 <Rick_> yep
Jun 25 16:55:00 <blau-mikeDG> until someomne runs rm /
Jun 25 16:55:03 <blau-mikeDG> dun dun dun
Jun 25 16:55:05 <blau-mikeDG> !
Jun 25 16:55:12 <gaffo_laptop> Rick_, I'm assuming this is different from the novacomm driver that bpadalino and I are working on?
Jun 25 16:55:19 <Rick_> it would be good to refuse that command
Jun 25 16:57:15 <bpadalino|work> gaffo, just saw what you pushed this morning .. wow - lots of autotools stuff
Jun 25 16:57:18 <blau-mikeDG> it should pop up a dialog and ask if the app should be able to execute that command
Jun 25 16:57:36 <blau-mikeDG> or any command
Jun 25 16:58:02 <gaffo_laptop> bpadalino|work, yeah, I'm working on pulling out the generated stuff
Jun 25 16:58:10 <bpadalino|work> yeah sounds like a good idea
Jun 25 16:58:14 <gaffo_laptop> bpadalino, the files you need to care about are the Makefile.am files
Jun 25 16:58:31 <gaffo_laptop> and if you've run ./configure on your box, then you juts change the Makefile.am's and make
Jun 25 16:58:39 <gaffo_laptop> and make will decide if it needs to recompile
Jun 25 16:58:53 <bpadalino|work> right
Jun 25 16:59:11 <Technobabble> does this thing have the tools to compile already on it?
Jun 25 16:59:18 <bpadalino|work> "this thing" ?
Jun 25 17:01:17 <bpadalino|work> gaffo, so are all those files required for autotools ?
Jun 25 17:02:19 <bpadalino|work> i guess config.guess, config.sub, configure.ac, Makefile.am ?
Jun 25 17:02:37 <gaffo_laptop> bpadalino|work, I'm not sure which ones are generated and which are required
Jun 25 17:02:55 <gaffo_laptop> configure.ac and the Makefile.am's are the files that the rest are derrived from
Jun 25 17:03:09 <bpadalino|work> gotcha
Jun 25 17:03:10 <gaffo_laptop> ./configure.ac is all of your "You are missing library x y z"
Jun 25 17:03:31 <gaffo_laptop> but you edit configure.ac and then run ./autogen.sh. It creates configure and the config.*'s
Jun 25 17:03:58 <gaffo_laptop> ./configure reads the Makefile.am's and creates the Makefiles
Jun 25 17:04:15 <gaffo_laptop> so do your work in configure.ac, and Makefile.am's
Jun 25 17:04:16 <gaffo_laptop> :)
Jun 25 17:04:58 <Rick_> Technobabble  -- I think that they are all cross-compiling, not compiling on the pre
Jun 25 17:05:09 <Technobabble> oh
Jun 25 17:05:11 <bpadalino|work> you can install gcc on the pre if you want
Jun 25 17:05:16 <bpadalino|work> its part of ipkg-config
Jun 25 17:05:23 <bpadalino|work> that's how nebula does his compiling i am pretty sure
Jun 25 17:08:32 <Technobabble> can any of you guys slightly twist your pre clockwise when it's close?
Jun 25 17:08:34 <Technobabble> d
Jun 25 17:08:53 <bpadalino|work> yes  mine is a little loose
Jun 25 17:09:39 <nebula> Technobabble: ever so slightly, yes
Jun 25 17:10:03 <Technobabble> mine does it about... an eighth of an inch
Jun 25 17:10:22 <Technobabble> and actually clicks out and stays there
Jun 25 17:10:36 <nebula> yikes
Jun 25 17:11:03 <blau-mikeDG> you probably broke it
Jun 25 17:11:14 <Technobabble> i dropped it last night form about 18 inches up on my chair
Jun 25 17:11:18 <Technobabble> hope that isn't what did it
Jun 25 17:11:21 <nebula> oh boy
Jun 25 17:12:05 <bpadalino|work> ouch
Jun 25 17:12:39 <Rick_> hope you had the $5 insurance
Jun 25 17:12:47 <Technobabble> i have the 7 dollar insurance
Jun 25 17:12:50 <blau-mikeDG> i chipped mine
Jun 25 17:12:51 <bpadalino|work> hot damn
Jun 25 17:12:52 <blau-mikeDG> :(
Jun 25 17:12:58 <Technobabble> but they just informed me that if i bought it on ebay, it's not covered
Jun 25 17:13:10 <blau-mikeDG> lame
Jun 25 17:13:17 <Technobabble> so i payed the 7 bucks this month for nothing
Jun 25 17:13:25 <Rick_> really.  :-(
Jun 25 17:13:30 <Rick_> ouch
Jun 25 17:14:10 <Rick_> uh, they didn't inform you of that when you signed up?   I would ask for a refund since it wasnot a provided service
Jun 25 17:14:41 <Rick_> cphelps  --  what novacomm driver that you and someone are working on?
Jun 25 17:14:44 <Technobabble> it was carried over from my 755p
Jun 25 17:14:50 <Rick_> ahhh
Jun 25 17:15:26 <cphelps> Rick_: Not me
Jun 25 17:15:39 <Rick_> gaffo_laptop    what novacomm driver
Jun 25 17:15:49 <Rick_> Sorry Chris
Jun 25 17:18:01 <blau-mikeDG> chris potato
Jun 25 17:18:32 <bpadalino|work> rick, the one on gitorious
Jun 25 17:18:41 <Rick_> cphelps, where are you based?
Jun 25 17:19:08 <cphelps> Rick_: Northern California
Jun 25 17:19:12 <Rick_> bpadalino|work     ok, but what's it FOR
Jun 25 17:19:16 <cphelps> Rick_: Eureka, specifically. Small place
Jun 25 17:21:12 <bpadalino|work> rick, it's a replacement for the novacomd daemon/service that runs on os x and windows ...
Jun 25 17:21:22 <bpadalino|work> it should be cross compatible with linux, windows and os x ..
Jun 25 17:21:27 <bpadalino|work> as an alternative to their novacomd driver
Jun 25 17:21:50 <bpadalino|work> i was at the lost coast brewery a couple weeks ago
Jun 25 17:22:26 <bpadalino|work> gaffo_laptop, are you still there ?
Jun 25 17:22:56 <cphelps> bpadalino|work: lovely place, don't you think?
Jun 25 17:23:23 <Rick_> cphelps -- that's about as northern as you can be in Ca.  :-)  Looks like a nice place.
Jun 25 17:23:35 <bpadalino|work> cphelps, it was not too bad .. i drove up from san francisco that day .. but had gotten some pretty bad sunburn on the way
Jun 25 17:23:51 <cphelps> bpadalino|work: just passing through to somewhere else?
Jun 25 17:24:16 <cphelps> Rick_: There's about 95 more miles of ca above here, so in the grand scheme of things, not much
Jun 25 17:24:33 <bpadalino|work> cphelps, drove up the coast for a vacation ..
Jun 25 17:24:36 <bpadalino|work> so you could say that
Jun 25 17:24:40 <PreGame> grrr
Jun 25 17:24:40 <bpadalino|work> sf -> seattle
Jun 25 17:24:45 <PreGame> stupid ipk wont install
Jun 25 17:24:58 <Rick_> PreGame what happens?
Jun 25 17:25:05 <PreGame> nothing :-\
Jun 25 17:25:06 <Rick_> I've been seeing your pain.
Jun 25 17:25:18 <PreGame> http://pbbans.com/patc/flashlight_0.2_arm.ipk
Jun 25 17:26:06 <Rick_> Rod's asleep...  eno ought to be around sometime soon.
Jun 25 17:26:15 <cphelps> bpadalino|work: That's a long haul, even over several days.
Jun 25 17:26:34 <bpadalino|work> cphelps, it wasn't too bad .. very beautiful
Jun 25 17:26:42 <bpadalino|work> stopped in portland
Jun 25 17:26:46 <bpadalino|work> was a fun time
Jun 25 17:26:58 <PreGame> is there a log file when an ipk tries to install?
Jun 25 17:28:11 <cphelps> bpadalino|work: my lady is from Portland, so we're up there all the time. Probably where we will end up when the economy is back on track
Jun 25 17:29:06 <bpadalino|work> cool
Jun 25 17:29:16 <bpadalino|work> it was a nice place .. i only stayed at the SW part of town i guess
Jun 25 17:29:18 <bpadalino|work> but it was neat
Jun 25 17:29:51 * bdumm has been to lost coast, the red fox tavern, etc...
Jun 25 17:30:14 * bdumm lives in flyover, middle of nowhere land aka as SE ahia....
Jun 25 17:30:34 <Rick_> PreGame --  I don't get "nothing"  I get
Jun 25 17:30:39 <Rick_> Nothing to be done
Jun 25 17:30:40 <Rick_> An error ocurred, return value: 4.
Jun 25 17:30:42 <Rick_> Collected errors:
Jun 25 17:30:44 <Rick_> Cannot find package ./flashlight_0.2_arm.ipk.
Jun 25 17:30:45 <Rick_> Check the spelling or perhaps run 'ipkg update'
Jun 25 17:31:13 <Rick_> that after wgetting it into a folder on the pre.
Jun 25 17:31:17 <Rick_> I'll try with the url
Jun 25 17:31:58 <Rick_> ditto with the url
Jun 25 17:32:10 <PreGame> the url works for me
Jun 25 17:32:22 <Rick_> PreGame -- does ipkg want the package to be listed in the ipkg DATABASE ???
Jun 25 17:32:40 <PreGame> i dont know what you mean
Jun 25 17:32:48 <PreGame> the package exists
Jun 25 17:33:16 <blau-mikeDG> i think im gonna modify my mail app to make the notification open up gmail.com instead
Jun 25 17:33:42 <blau-mikeDG> gmail.com fucks the shit out of pretty much all the regular apps
Jun 25 17:34:25 <Rick_> PreGame.   that's what I get when I try ipkg-opt install http://pbbans.com/patc/flashlight_0.2_arm.ipk    or ./~~~
Jun 25 17:37:44 <Rick_> what happens when YOU do it PreGame?
Jun 25 17:39:21 <PreGame> i'm not doing it like that i can get to the file via a web browser
Jun 25 17:39:34 <Rick_> yeah so can I
Jun 25 17:39:39 <Rick_> and I can wget it it.
Jun 25 17:39:49 <Rick_> but you said it wouldn't install.
Jun 25 17:39:53 <Rick_> so I tried to install it.
Jun 25 17:40:03 <PreGame> i get ipkg-opt not found
Jun 25 17:40:25 <Rick_> try  /opt/bin/ipkg-opt   instead of just the bare name
Jun 25 17:40:35 <PreGame> ls
Jun 25 17:40:44 <Rick_> or export PATH=/opt/bin:$PATH
Jun 25 17:40:49 <PreGame> i'm doing this from my phone
Jun 25 17:40:52 <PreGame> i dont have an /opt
Jun 25 17:41:08 <Rick_> are you root?
Jun 25 17:41:31 <PreGame> yep
Jun 25 17:41:54 <Rick_> did you not install ipkg-opt as in http://predev.wikidot.com/next-steps-after-rooting
Jun 25 17:42:14 <PreGame> nope as i don't want to install to much on the phone.
Jun 25 17:42:19 <Rick_> ok
Jun 25 17:42:23 <Technobabble> heh
Jun 25 17:42:29 <Rick_> so you're building this for an EMAIL install right?
Jun 25 17:42:38 <PreGame> correct
Jun 25 17:43:05 <PreGame> i have tried 2 diff ones
Jun 25 17:43:15 <Rick_> ok
Jun 25 17:43:16 <Rick_> got that
Jun 25 17:43:19 <PreGame> i built one in optware that wouldn't install and one via the predev wiki
Jun 25 17:43:23 <Rick_> so you're using the built in ipkg
Jun 25 17:43:33 <PreGame> yea
Jun 25 17:43:34 <Rick_> so it's just ipkg install  flashlight_0.2_arm.ipk
Jun 25 17:43:44 <Rick_> not ipkg-opt
Jun 25 17:43:51 <Rick_> ipkg returns an error 22
Jun 25 17:44:26 <PreGame> any idea what error 22 is?
Jun 25 17:45:26 <Rick_> ipkg -V3 install ./flashlight_0.2_arm.ipk
Jun 25 17:45:27 <Rick_> An error ocurred, return value: 22.
Jun 25 17:45:29 <Rick_> hash_table[pkg-hash] n_buckets=0 n_elements=475 max_conflicts=0 n_conflicts=0
Jun 25 17:45:29 <cphelps> PreGame: Forgot to mention. You are my hero. Service works great
Jun 25 17:45:30 <Rick_> hash_table[file-hash] n_buckets=0 n_elements=0 max_conflicts=0 n_conflicts=0
Jun 25 17:45:32 <Rick_> hash_table[obs-file-hash] n_buckets=0 n_elements=0 max_conflicts=0 n_conflicts=0
Jun 25 17:47:21 <PreGame> :)
Jun 25 17:48:50 <PreGame> yea i have no clue what that means
Jun 25 17:48:57 <cphelps> PreGame: if you can make the bitch install on people's systems, we'll be in business.
Jun 25 17:49:14 <PreGame> thats what i'm working on :)
Jun 25 17:49:50 <cphelps> PreGame: Rick_ asked for a command line app, or I would be helping you
Jun 25 17:50:12 <PreGame> screw Rick_ :P
Jun 25 17:50:14 <Rick_> PreGame --  uh  error code 22 means "failed to download."
Jun 25 17:50:22 <Rick_> Rick is trying to help.
Jun 25 17:50:30 <PreGame> really??? i get a 100% dl
Jun 25 17:50:41 <Rick_> I know.  I'm just saying that's what it means.
Jun 25 17:50:48 <cphelps> Rick_ you stay on that, I'll get you an app to use it with :-)
Jun 25 17:50:52 <PreGame> do a -verbose_wget
Jun 25 17:50:54 <PreGame> what do u have?
Jun 25 17:51:03 <Robi-> ar -test ?
Jun 25 17:51:13 <PreGame> yea my next project was to create a shell app for the pre
Jun 25 17:51:27 <Technobabble> i can't wait for that one
Jun 25 17:51:38 <PreGame> you want an ar -test on the system i used to build the ipk?
Jun 25 17:51:39 <blau-mikeDG> i want an app that spanks monkeys like children
Jun 25 17:51:54 <Rick_> PreGame --  so we gotta get this finished.   It would be nice if we had one of the ipkg folks here.
Jun 25 17:51:56 <Technobabble> or children like monkeys?
Jun 25 17:52:22 <Technobabble> pre, if you need someone to test out your shell app, let me know
Jun 25 17:52:28 <Rick_> eno's logged in, he's just away.
Jun 25 17:53:35 <Robi-> i'm just saying verify the download, try to extract the .ipk to make sure it's good, as it could be relatd to the error 22
Jun 25 17:53:41 <Rick_> the stable version of ipkg is 3 years old.....
Jun 25 17:53:55 <PreGame> ar -t = verified ok
Jun 25 17:54:21 <PreGame> if i download the .ipk and change it to .tar.gz i can open it fine
Jun 25 17:56:29 <Robi-> Rick_: try ipkg -test or -noaction
Jun 25 17:56:45 <Robi-> see if it prints steps
Jun 25 17:58:18 <Rick_>  ipkg -test install ./flashlight_0.2_arm.ipk
Jun 25 17:58:20 <Rick_> An error ocurred, return value: 22.
Jun 25 17:59:03 <Rick_>  ipkg -test install http://pbbans.com/patc/flashlight_0.2_arm.ipk
Jun 25 17:59:05 <Rick_> Downloading http://pbbans.com/patc/flashlight_0.2_arm.ipk
Jun 25 17:59:06 <Rick_> An error ocurred, return value: 22.
Jun 25 17:59:40 <hemna|work> http://webos.pastebin.com/d1027a127
Jun 25 17:59:44 <hemna|work> gstreamer issues
Jun 25 18:02:43 <Robi-> Rick_: ipkg download <x>
Jun 25 18:03:09 <Robi-> um is yer fs rw ? ;]
Jun 25 18:03:45 <Rick_> ipkg download http://pbbans.com/patc/flashlight_0.2_arm.ipk
Jun 25 18:03:47 <Rick_> Collected errors:
Jun 25 18:03:48 <Rick_> Cannot find package http://pbbans.com/patc/flashlight_0.2_arm.ipk.
Jun 25 18:03:50 <Rick_> Check the spelling or perhaps run 'ipkg update'
Jun 25 18:04:04 <Robi-> patcH
Jun 25 18:04:11 <Robi-> perhaps?
Jun 25 18:04:15 <en0x> no
Jun 25 18:05:08 <Rick_> remounted file system.
Jun 25 18:05:15 <Rick_> re did alltests
Jun 25 18:05:17 <Rick_> same output
Jun 25 18:05:36 <Rick_> I can wget the file Robi-
Jun 25 18:05:42 <Robi-> right..
Jun 25 18:05:47 <Rick_> and I try to install from ./   and I get the same error
Jun 25 18:06:26 <Rick_> ok,    I know NOTHING about .deb and therefore about .ipkg  files.
Jun 25 18:06:48 <Rick_> but does the fact that the source value in the control file says:  Source: http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/flashlight/flashlight-0.2.tar.gz   and that doesn't match theactual source matter at all?
Jun 25 18:07:13 <Rick_> because that returns "can not find server"
Jun 25 18:07:26 <en0x> u dont have the previous url in your repos
Jun 25 18:07:45 <en0x> or something like that
Jun 25 18:07:50 <en0x> why not just use wget?
Jun 25 18:08:18 <en0x> and then install it?
Jun 25 18:08:31 <Rick_> yeah,  but if that's the problem en0x,  how does the download via email link stuff EVER install?  Because simplyflipflops and pimpmypre and tipcalc aren't in the repository.
Jun 25 18:08:38 <cphelps> en0x: I think they want to do it without root
Jun 25 18:08:49 <Rick_> en0x   I ---did--- wget   and it didn't install    error 22
Jun 25 18:08:52 <Rick_> that's the question
Jun 25 18:09:15 <en0x> u cant install tar.gz with ipkg
Jun 25 18:09:31 <Rick_> it has to be an ar archive?
Jun 25 18:09:57 <en0x> ipkg is a package manager
Jun 25 18:10:05 <en0x> like dpkg for .deb
Jun 25 18:10:42 <en0x> or rpm for .rpm
Jun 25 18:11:02 <Rick_> the ipkg page on moinmoin says:  So, a .ipk file is an archive (either tar or gzipped tar) containing 3 members:
Jun 25 18:11:04 <Rick_>       ./data.tar.gz contains the actual files belonging to this package. The contents of this directory will be extracted to / by ipkg. So it should contain entries such as ./usr and ./etc as top-level directory entries.
Jun 25 18:11:04 <en0x> i don't have system with ipkg now so i cant help and i can't connect to my pre now
Jun 25 18:11:05 <Rick_>       ./control.tar.gz contains meta-data and scripts for the package. It must contain a file named control. It also may contain the following files: conffiles, preinst, postinst, prerm, postrm. Heck, it may contain anything else for that matter, but it wouldn't be useful.
Jun 25 18:11:07 <Rick_>       ./debian-binary This file is currently ignored by ipkg. However, in all current ipkgs it is a text file with a single line: 2.0
Jun 25 18:11:35 <hemna|work> I was able to get uvccapture placed in an .ipk file
Jun 25 18:11:36 <en0x> maybe the package is borked?
Jun 25 18:11:40 <Rick_> en0x  we KNOW it's a package manager... the point is that PreGame has BUILT a package.   and it isn't installing.   It's giving an error 22
Jun 25 18:11:53 <hemna|work> it was quite a bit of massaging, but I was able to make a uvccapture.mk file for optware and get it built
Jun 25 18:12:28 <Rick_> PreGame  -- can you pastebin your mk file?
Jun 25 18:12:44 <Rick_> that's the question en0x.  in what way is it borked?
Jun 25 18:13:26 <en0x> i dont know coz I havent seen a debug log from installation
Jun 25 18:13:27 <en0x> ?
Jun 25 18:13:39 <hemna|work> so it looks like gst-launch isn't running when the camer is active...so camd must be using some gstreamer apis
Jun 25 18:13:49 <hemna|work> I need to figure out how it's actually grabbing an image from the cam
Jun 25 18:13:57 <Rick_> right.  So  where does ipkg log to...  none of us know.
Jun 25 18:14:00 <hemna|work> my gst-launch command line results in timeouts
Jun 25 18:15:52 <cphelps> what I wouldn't give for a fucking gridbaglayout right now
Jun 25 18:16:14 <Robi-> Rick_: did you mean for hemna|work to pastebin the .mk file ?
Jun 25 18:16:29 <Rick_> no.  PreGame's mk file for flashlight
Jun 25 18:16:51 <bpadalino|work> cphelps, what do you do your html/css/js editing using ?
Jun 25 18:16:57 <Robi-> k..
Jun 25 18:17:20 <cphelps> bpadalino|work: jEdit
Jun 25 18:17:38 <bpadalino|work> are you on windows ?
Jun 25 18:18:57 <cphelps> bpadalino|work: yessir. I write java on windows for a living, so somewhat limited.
Jun 25 18:19:18 <Rick_> en0x -- where would I go to look for a debug log for ipkg from an install attempt
Jun 25 18:19:27 <bpadalino|work> this style master seems to be pretty good with the css ?
Jun 25 18:19:31 <bpadalino|work> http://www.westciv.com/style_master/screenshots/screenshots_win.html
Jun 25 18:20:20 <cphelps> bpadalino|work: thanks, but I write everything by hand. I like to understand what I am doing and why.
Jun 25 18:20:40 <Rick_> cphelps -- you do know that there is a gridlist widget in mojo?
Jun 25 18:20:59 <cphelps> Rick_: Nope
Jun 25 18:21:15 <cphelps> Rick_: but I doubt that a gridlist is the same as a gridbaglayout
Jun 25 18:21:25 <Rick_> I doubt that too.
Jun 25 18:21:29 <Rick_> but I'm trying to help
Jun 25 18:22:14 <tont> is there anything like a api doc being put together on something l ike a wiki while we wait for the sdk?
Jun 25 18:22:32 <bpadalino|work> tont, no - feel free to write one
Jun 25 18:22:37 <tont> ha
Jun 25 18:22:41 <tont> swell advice :P
Jun 25 18:22:50 <bpadalino|work> :)
Jun 25 18:22:56 <Rick_> tout --  it's a long-term goal.  But the problem is, that the only source for info is reverse engineering existing apps and the O'Reilly book.
Jun 25 18:23:09 <tont> i still dont have a pre (sold out everywhere) but id like ot see an api of some sort
Jun 25 18:23:16 <tont> yeh
Jun 25 18:23:22 <Rick_> the O'Reilly book doesnt have the complete api in it, it REFERENCES it.
Jun 25 18:23:25 <bpadalino|work> tont, you can download the webos doctor which has a rootfs image ..
Jun 25 18:23:31 <bpadalino|work> tont, and you can read the mojo framework
Jun 25 18:23:35 <bpadalino|work> and examine the current applications
Jun 25 18:23:45 <tont> good call
Jun 25 18:23:47 <Rick_> that's what we're all pretty much doing these days
Jun 25 18:25:15 <PreGame> i'm not using a make file i am doing what it says on the predev wiki
Jun 25 18:25:18 <hemna|work> the API is still a moving target....
Jun 25 18:25:23 <tont> yeh
Jun 25 18:25:40 <tont> but somme things have to be at least somewhat stable if they plan on hitting that end of summer target
Jun 25 18:25:55 <tont> (one hopes at least)
Jun 25 18:25:55 <tont> heh
Jun 25 18:26:21 <PreGame> http://predev.wikidot.com/installing-apps-without-rooting
Jun 25 18:27:06 <tont> need a pre serial # to get the webos doctor?
Jun 25 18:27:27 <Robi-> no, there's a direct download link
Jun 25 18:27:40 <PreGame> Rick_
Jun 25 18:27:42 <Rick_> off the front page of the wiki
Jun 25 18:27:46 <Rick_> yes PreGame
Jun 25 18:27:55 <PreGame> i fixed it, i had the name wrong in id and it didn't match the control file
Jun 25 18:27:58 <bpadalino|work> tont,  http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre_p100eww/webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar
Jun 25 18:28:05 <PreGame> but no i get an error 4 says it cant be found
Jun 25 18:28:07 <tont> thanks :)
Jun 25 18:28:10 <bpadalino|work> no problem
Jun 25 18:28:16 <Robi-> progress ;]
Jun 25 18:28:18 <bpadalino|work> link was found here: http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-doctor-versions
Jun 25 18:28:22 <PreGame> the new link is http://pbbans.com/patc/flashlight_0.3_arm.ipk
Jun 25 18:29:01 <Rick_> yeah,  I asked about that in the control file a bit ago.
Jun 25 18:29:29 <Robi-> time to recheck all spelling
Jun 25 18:29:35 <djk> PreGame: so if I email that it will install?
Jun 25 18:29:37 <PreGame> ok sorry didn't see it
Jun 25 18:29:53 <PreGame> now it can't find the darn org.webosinternals.app.flashlight
Jun 25 18:29:56 <PreGame> wtf...
Jun 25 18:29:57 <Rick_> not yet djk
Jun 25 18:30:06 <Rick_> but it's better now.
Jun 25 18:30:25 <Rick_> I can't pastebin this,  it generates a spam alert.   so fair warning   buncha lines coming
Jun 25 18:30:27 <Rick_> .
Jun 25 18:30:29 <Rick_> .
Jun 25 18:30:37 <Rick_> ipkg -V3 install http://pbbans.com/patc/flashlight_0.3_arm.ipk
Jun 25 18:30:39 <Rick_> Downloading http://pbbans.com/patc/flashlight_0.3_arm.ipk
Jun 25 18:30:41 <Rick_> pkg_info_preinstall_check: updating arch priority for each package
Jun 25 18:30:42 <Rick_> Clearing state_want and state_flag for pkg=org.webosinternals.app.flashlight (arch_priority=0 flag=16 want=2)
Jun 25 18:30:44 <Rick_> pkg_info_preinstall_check: update file owner list
Jun 25 18:30:45 <Rick_> best installation candidate for org.webosinternals.app.flashlight
Jun 25 18:30:47 <Rick_>  adding org.webosinternals.app.flashlight to providers
Jun 25 18:30:48 <Rick_>   org.webosinternals.app.flashlight arch=armeb arch_priority=0 version=0.3
Jun 25 18:30:50 <Rick_> An error ocurred, return value: 4.
Jun 25 18:30:51 <Rick_> Collected errors:
Jun 25 18:30:53 <Rick_> Cannot find package org.webosinternals.app.flashlight.
Jun 25 18:30:54 <Rick_> Check the spelling or perhaps run 'ipkg update'
Jun 25 18:30:56 <Rick_> hash_table[pkg-hash] n_buckets=0 n_elements=476 max_conflicts=0 n_conflicts=0
Jun 25 18:30:57 <Rick_> hash_table[file-hash] n_buckets=0 n_elements=11522 max_conflicts=0 n_conflicts=0
Jun 25 18:30:59 <Rick_> hash_table[obs-file-hash] n_buckets=0 n_elements=0 max_conflicts=0 n_conflicts=0
Jun 25 18:31:06 <PreGame> yea thats what i have
Jun 25 18:31:23 <Robi-> armeb ?
Jun 25 18:31:24 <PreGame> hrm maybe i need to change the paths to /var/usr/palm/applications instead of /usr/palm/applications
Jun 25 18:31:31 <bpadalino|work> armeb
Jun 25 18:31:39 <Rick_> yep
Jun 25 18:31:41 <Rick_> you do
Jun 25 18:32:00 <Rick_> var is not ro  usr is
Jun 25 18:32:04 <Robi-> aren't we set on making everything go to /opt
Jun 25 18:32:16 <Rick_> Robi -- opt requires root
Jun 25 18:32:27 <Rick_> you have to have CREATED an opt directory
Jun 25 18:32:40 <Robi-> o rite this is the rootless
Jun 25 18:32:44 <Rick_> what we're trying to do here is get a package install for an app for an UNROOTED PRE
Jun 25 18:33:17 <Rick_> and this one is more complex than any of the ones so far posted because PreGame has created a SERVICE -- not just a mojo app.
Jun 25 18:33:47 <Robi-> lun service?
Jun 25 18:33:49 <Robi-> luna
Jun 25 18:34:00 <Robi-> or linux service
Jun 25 18:34:04 <PreGame> luna
Jun 25 18:35:03 <Rick_> java program.  Luna service
Jun 25 18:35:09 <Rick_> pretty darned cool one too.
Jun 25 18:36:07 <bpadalino|work> neat - android released a native development kit
Jun 25 18:36:09 <Rick_> PreGame,  it's still a name matching issue.
Jun 25 18:36:16 <Robi-> Rick_: elaborate
Jun 25 18:36:25 <Rick_> Rick Can't elaborate
Jun 25 18:36:31 <Rick_> Rick did a buncha googling
Jun 25 18:36:54 <bpadalino|work> robi, what do you need elaborating with ?
Jun 25 18:37:24 <Robi-> why Rick_ thinks its 'darned cool'
Jun 25 18:38:32 <eno> PreGame: Architecture: armeb definitely is not right
Jun 25 18:39:06 <eno> it also did not seem like an ipk produced by optware/cs08q1armel
Jun 25 18:39:16 <Rick_> three things:    1)  It has a method called "Flameon"   2) It has amethod called "flameoff"  and 3) the runcmd method allows any mojo app calling that service to run ANY command and get the return output to do something with in mojo.  ls, cp, rm, etc.  coolness
Jun 25 18:39:52 <Rick_> Hey -- woot has stereo bluetooth headsets today for $20.  !
Jun 25 18:40:06 <eno> so far optware ipkg-opt should just install under /opt
Jun 25 18:41:12 <Robi-> Rick_: awesome, hope we get it installed before i leave so i can show it off at the meetup tonight
Jun 25 18:41:49 <Robi-> PreGame: got a slider widget to control the brightness?
Jun 25 18:41:51 <Rick_> but eno, this isn't for ipkg-opt, this is for ipkg
Jun 25 18:42:23 <PreGame> i did but it wont work right now until i get shell commands to work properly with redirect
Jun 25 18:42:50 <eno> i thought PreGame was packaging it with optware framework
Jun 25 18:43:09 <PreGame> i was but gave up with it when it didnt work
Jun 25 18:43:10 <Rick_> I thought he was packaging it for email install.
Jun 25 18:43:15 <PreGame> now i'm doing w/e is on the wiki
Jun 25 18:43:22 <PreGame> i am packaging it for email install
Jun 25 18:44:32 <eno> are you using OE build framework?
Jun 25 18:44:52 <Lurking_Grue> Rick: Can you use that to run emulators from the interface and have it bring back luna when you quit out?
Jun 25 18:44:56 <destinal> Rick_: runcmd --  handy method for developing stuff, but kind of a security problem
Jun 25 18:45:08 <eno> there's OpenEmbedded packaging, openwrt packaging, and optware packaging
Jun 25 18:45:40 <Lurking_Grue> Yeah... rm -rf *
Jun 25 18:45:46 <Rick_> destinal -yep
Jun 25 18:45:59 <eno> once packaged, it probably can be installed by email
Jun 25 18:46:11 <bsiegel> PreGame: Is your java service named com.pregame.Prelease ? If not, Jad screwed up, and if so, I don't understand how the dbus service file and event file that reference org.webosinternals.Prelease can find it.
Jun 25 18:46:55 <eno> PreGame: in any case, there's still problem in your packaging
Jun 25 18:47:06 <PreGame> bsiegel: version .2 uses com.pregame and version .3 uses org.webosinternals
Jun 25 18:47:08 <eno> armeb is the wrong architecture
Jun 25 18:47:17 <PreGame> what should it be?
Jun 25 18:47:28 <bsiegel> PreGame: I unpacked flashlight_0.3_arm.ipk and got the version 2 .class file
Jun 25 18:47:51 * nebula cranks some RATM
Jun 25 18:47:56 <nebula> take the power back!
Jun 25 18:48:10 <eno> PreGame: if it's cross platform, it should be either all or noarch
Jun 25 18:48:24 <eno> optware does not properly support all or noarch yet
Jun 25 18:48:35 <eno> we just use the native TARGET_ARCH
Jun 25 18:48:50 <Robi-> so just plain arm ?
Jun 25 18:48:52 <PreGame> i'm not using optware
Jun 25 18:48:53 <eno> in the case of cs08q1armel, it will be set by the framework to arm
Jun 25 18:49:16 <eno> whatever you're using, you're not setting it correctly
Jun 25 18:49:31 <eno> usually it should be set by the framework
Jun 25 18:49:32 <PreGame> i'm using the same settings flipflops has
Jun 25 18:49:46 <hemna|work> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/06/porn-comes-to-the-itunes-app-store/
Jun 25 18:49:52 <hemna|work> hrmm...the Pre doesn't have a pr0n app
Jun 25 18:50:15 <Robi-> our pr0n is ls output in the gui
Jun 25 18:50:26 <bsiegel> hemna|work: perhaps we should hack up the youtube app to work with xtube instead :p
Jun 25 18:50:36 <hemna|work> good idea
Jun 25 18:51:24 <eno> PreGame: and you mean flipflops using armeb and his ipk can install?
Jun 25 18:51:34 <eno> i don't believe that
Jun 25 18:52:26 <PreGame> your right i was looking at the wrong file
Jun 25 18:52:32 <PreGame> one sec let me re compile
Jun 25 18:55:25 <eno> bbl
Jun 25 19:00:59 <spectre686> Hi All.. I want to build a small app. Just kind of a test. Does anyone have idea how to play a sound from an app like at a button press. Like a .wave or something. Javascript embedded sounds don't seem to work.. Searched the wiki didn't see anything.
Jun 25 19:00:59 <PreGame> ok
Jun 25 19:01:09 <PreGame> got it to install now it just has an error 126
Jun 25 19:01:34 <PreGame> Calling pkg_write_filelist for pkg=upstart-initscripts from pkg_write_changed_filelists
Jun 25 19:01:35 <PreGame>     creating upstart-initscripts.list file
Jun 25 19:01:35 <PreGame>     creating //usr/lib/ipkg/info/upstart-initscripts.list file for pkg upstart-initscripts
Jun 25 19:01:35 <PreGame> An error ocurred, return value: 126.
Jun 25 19:01:51 <spectre686> Thought maybe I could use systems-sound-sevice from the Camera app. But I don't understand it. lol My javascript is week. Used to RPG programmer.
Jun 25 19:02:29 <dsevil> role playing games or report program generator?  :)
Jun 25 19:03:02 * dsevil comes out of lurk mode again
Jun 25 19:03:08 <dsevil> lock up your daughters!
Jun 25 19:04:29 <PreGame> Running script //usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.app.flashlight.postinst
Jun 25 19:04:29 <PreGame> sh: //usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.app.flashlight.postinst: Permission denied
Jun 25 19:04:29 <PreGame> postinst script returned status 126
Jun 25 19:04:29 <PreGame> ERROR: org.webosinternals.app.flashlight.postinst returned 126
Jun 25 19:04:29 <PreGame>   writing status file
Jun 25 19:04:45 <Rick_> spectre686,  there is a mojo service to play sounds.
Jun 25 19:05:09 <PreGame> Rick_: Seems its working but just doesn't want to run the postinst script
Jun 25 19:05:30 <Rick_> what's the permissions on the postinst file?
Jun 25 19:05:38 <Rick_> is it taged as executable?
Jun 25 19:05:42 <Rick_> do you need to chmod it?
Jun 25 19:05:57 <PreGame> if i chmod it before packing it will it keep the chmod?
Jun 25 19:06:10 <Rick_> do _I_ look like a linux guy?
Jun 25 19:06:15 <NxlKing2304> i need a little help.  I rooted another pre, and now I cannot connect to my own rooted pre or USB drive either.  Any help would be appreciated.  The Pyhon says nova can't seee the pre.
Jun 25 19:09:05 <cphelps> PreGame: I believe it should keep the permissions, yes
Jun 25 19:11:57 <Rick_> NxlKing2304  ooooops.
Jun 25 19:15:17 <cphelps> Rick_: getting pretty close here on the command runner
Jun 25 19:15:33 <jblebrun> If you tar with -p, permissions are preserved
Jun 25 19:16:28 <Rick_> really, cool beans cphelps --  'cause I keephaving every attempt I make at an app fail to work with the scroller object and the text box.
Jun 25 19:16:35 <Rick_> so, if you have it working, I'm excited.
Jun 25 19:16:54 <cphelps> Rick_: I haven't slapped it in a scroller as yet
Jun 25 19:17:02 <cphelps> Rick_: just a text box.
Jun 25 19:17:03 <Rick_> ah
Jun 25 19:17:05 <Rick_> ah
Jun 25 19:17:27 <Rick_> I've -done-that.  the text box expands to be bigger than the screen and doesn't scroll.  :-(
Jun 25 19:18:09 <Rick_> so, I have to have it in a scroller...  and then set a height on the textbox in the css so that it doesn't expand beyond the screen, 'cause the scroller doesn't invoke unless the data extends beyond the lmiits of the height set in the css.
Jun 25 19:18:19 <Rick_> learned THAT through several hours of beating my head.
Jun 25 19:19:17 <Rick_> mojo is a complex environment.  the mogo widgets and the css and the js and the html all interact in complex ways.
Jun 25 19:19:37 <Rick_> it sure as hell isn't just "writing web apps" like the iphone dweebs keep saying.
Jun 25 19:21:33 <cphelps> Rick_: so when you put it in a scroller, what breaks?
Jun 25 19:22:03 <mikewx> has anyone started a wiki article on mojo calls, eg, started documenting the mojo sdk?
Jun 25 19:23:29 <lane> do i have to do anything special to the script for Webshell?
Jun 25 19:23:30 <cphelps> mikewx: That seems like a waste of time raelly, with the SDK not actually being out yet
Jun 25 19:24:04 <lane> all i get is disconnected
Jun 25 19:25:02 <mikewx> well, i might agree it would be a waste of time if the sdk was to be published next week, but seeing as how palm said it's not planned till "end of summer" i'm not sure its' that much of a waste of time to start listing out functions and protoypes etc
Jun 25 19:25:25 <mdklein_> I document luna calls and methods as I use them
Jun 25 19:26:48 <spectre686> I found some at weboshelp.net when I was searching the googles :D
Jun 25 19:27:40 <Rick_> I agree it's not a wast of time
Jun 25 19:27:49 <Rick_> mdklein_ where are you putting those?
Jun 25 19:28:07 <Rick_> mikewx, if you start a page we'll link it and sendpeople there when they have updates
Jun 25 19:28:22 <Rick_> cphelps nothing breaks.  I just keep failing to make everything point together.
Jun 25 19:28:32 <Rick_> I can get it to work, it's just fussy
Jun 25 19:28:35 <mdklein_> Rick_: wiki, and linking from research artical... I haven't done any Mojo stuff yet, but I suppose I could start...
Jun 25 19:28:47 <Rick_> right
Jun 25 19:29:21 <Rick_> mikewx   edit the research portal,  make a link to a Mojo Framework Documentation page   and creat that page and off you go
Jun 25 19:30:20 <Rick_> honestly,  most of the time folks have been talking here has been at levels _under_ the mojo development.  What's going on in the underlying linux.
Jun 25 19:30:32 <Rick_> Which is not to say that mojo is not something we're using/interested in
Jun 25 19:31:29 * mikewx has to join first
Jun 25 19:31:32 <cphelps> Rick_: not exec button is not getting a tap event :-(
Jun 25 19:32:13 <Rick_> pm me an email mikewx and I'll send you an invitation
Jun 25 19:32:42 <Rick_> cphelps --  on the assistant-js you have a listener for taps on the button?
Jun 25 19:33:02 <cphelps> I have :-)
Jun 25 19:33:11 <cphelps> Rick_: added on activate, removed on deactivate
Jun 25 19:33:16 <cphelps> and bound as an event listener
Jun 25 19:34:08 <Rick_> so, you have something like:  <div x-mojo-element="Button" id="exec"></div> in the view
Jun 25 19:35:01 <Rick_> and this.controller.listen('exec', Mojo.Event.tap, this.exec.bindAsEventListener(this));   in the assistant
Jun 25 19:35:10 <tmzt> they didn't use namespaces?
Jun 25 19:36:44 <cphelps> Rick_: yes, quite a bit like that
Jun 25 19:37:42 <cphelps> Rick_: and I am getting events for text changes in the command input.
Jun 25 19:39:30 <Rick_> ok,  that that bindAsEventListener is in a function()  definition?
Jun 25 19:39:38 <Rick_> and the function definition has a call to runcmd
Jun 25 19:39:46 <Rick_> and it's never getting called?
Jun 25 19:40:22 <Rick_> hmmmm    if you're getting events for text changes....  can you listen for ENTER and execute on that?  :-)
Jun 25 19:40:27 <Rick_> and DUMP the button?
Jun 25 19:40:51 <Rick_> but there's got to be a way to make buttons listen.
Jun 25 19:40:53 <Rick_> hmmmm
Jun 25 19:42:33 <cphelps> Rick_: most likely there is an event for enter. I'd have to look...
Jun 25 19:43:22 <msphobia> does anyone know of a way to force the pre to power cycle if it locks up other than pulling the battery? the usual guess of holding the power button doesn't seem to have an effect
Jun 25 19:44:12 <bpadalino|work> good question
Jun 25 19:44:23 <bpadalino|work> does orange + sym + r reboot when it's locked up ?
Jun 25 19:44:32 <msphobia> not for me
Jun 25 19:44:46 <bpadalino|work> seems like a battery pull is the only way
Jun 25 19:45:04 <msphobia> that was my fear, though not the end of the world, thanks
Jun 25 19:45:17 <mikeDOTd> i had a lock-up that responded to a orange-sym-r
Jun 25 19:45:36 <tmzt> I think that's sysrq
Jun 25 19:45:51 <tmzt> try orange-sym-b
Jun 25 19:46:30 <PullingJ_> hold the power button and cycle the silent switch a few times
Jun 25 19:47:04 <bpadalino|work> so many ways to reboot
Jun 25 19:47:13 <tmzt> does pre use sd8686 for wifi?
Jun 25 19:47:15 <mikeDOTd> that's the unix way!
Jun 25 19:47:16 <bpadalino|work> does orange+sym+b reboot as well ?
Jun 25 19:47:57 <msphobia> unfortunately none of those seem to cycle for me, not sure exactly what's going on, but the phone seems pretty well hung, will try to look for some logs after the reboot
Jun 25 19:48:14 <bpadalino|work> porn star phone ?
Jun 25 19:48:48 <msphobia> apparently
Jun 25 19:49:13 <dsevil> i tried all the orange+sym+xxx combos one day and don't remember orange+sym+b booting.
Jun 25 19:49:24 <Rick_> cphelps...   if you did  this.exec.bindAsEventListener(this))  this someplace you have   ((thisscene)assistant.prototype.exec = function(event)   and some code to do the action, right?
Jun 25 19:50:24 <Rick_> cphelps   and  THAT is what's never getting called?
Jun 25 19:50:30 <cphelps> Rick_: exactly
Jun 25 19:51:34 <Rick_> gotta be a typo.   can you  pm or pastebin the view and the assistant?
Jun 25 19:52:56 <cphelps> Rick_: It's already toast. I am working on doing it as a keydown event on the text area
Jun 25 19:53:58 <Rick_> cphelps -- do you have this.controller.setupWidget(exec, {}, {"Run that puppy", disabled:false}) aheadof the bind event as listener?????
Jun 25 19:54:05 <Rick_> oh :-(   Nevermind
Jun 25 19:55:56 <cphelps> Rick_: yes, i had that too
Jun 25 19:56:08 <Rick_> uh,  then there had to be a typo
Jun 25 19:58:32 <lane> how hard would it be to make a menu for the feft top of the home screen?
Jun 25 19:58:38 <lane> **top left
Jun 25 20:01:35 <tmzt> anyone know what CONFIG_SDIO_WORKAROUND_MARVELL_CIS_B1_BUG is actually for?
Jun 25 20:03:37 <cphelps> crap, I just worked through lunch
Jun 25 20:03:44 <cphelps> getting hungry
Jun 25 20:06:34 <cphelps> Rick_: stinking keypress event is not working either. I have no idea
Jun 25 20:08:34 <Rick_> send me a copy? Let me debug
Jun 25 20:09:56 <Rick_> Lane the top left menu is the context menu, so that would mean modding the luna home screen assitant
Jun 25 20:18:23 <funkatron> I'm about to send out a new test build of Spaz. If you want to be on the list and aren't already, email me at spaz@funkatron.com
Jun 25 20:18:25 <funkatron> danke
Jun 25 20:19:20 <bpadalino|work> oh neat
Jun 25 20:19:35 <bpadalino|work> i didn't realize the spaz guy hung out here
Jun 25 20:19:41 <funkatron> Spaz Guy
Jun 25 20:19:43 <funkatron> yep
Jun 25 20:19:52 <bpadalino|work> neato - whats new in this version ?
Jun 25 20:20:04 <funkatron> have folks without the SDK sorted out how to install .ipks yet?
Jun 25 20:20:11 <bpadalino|work> still working on it
Jun 25 20:20:19 <funkatron> in this one there's a lot of stuff new for posting
Jun 25 20:20:34 <bpadalino|work> were you able to support twitpic and geolocation stuff ?
Jun 25 20:20:42 <funkatron> a full scene instead of a popup, and one-click url shortening (bit.ly) and text shortening
Jun 25 20:20:56 <funkatron> twitpic is a no-go. there's no hook to file uploading in webOS
Jun 25 20:21:03 <funkatron> from Mojo, at least
Jun 25 20:21:09 <destinal> funkatron: what's Spaz?
Jun 25 20:21:19 <bpadalino|work> twitter client for webos
Jun 25 20:21:25 <funkatron> Geolocation is in there. you can Update Location... from the Spaz menu anytime you are logged-in
Jun 25 20:21:37 <bpadalino|work> ah, lame twitpic is a no-go ..
Jun 25 20:21:47 <funkatron> yeah, source code is on github: http://github.com/funkatron/spaz-webos
Jun 25 20:21:49 <Technobabble> is there a way to remove and reinstall google maps?  the GPS is WAY off on it
Jun 25 20:21:50 <Kaerey> good afternoon all
Jun 25 20:21:57 <bpadalino|work> h, i didn't realize it was open source
Jun 25 20:22:06 <funkatron> yep
Jun 25 20:22:30 <bpadalino|work> oh .. spazcore .. what is that ?
Jun 25 20:22:59 <Kaerey> funkatron there has to be an upload method you can upload to Facebook from the photo app.
Jun 25 20:23:10 <funkatron> SpazCore is a set of libraries that I'm creating
Jun 25 20:23:16 <bpadalino|work> ah cool
Jun 25 20:23:17 <destinal> is turning dev mode off expected to stop dropbear from working?
Jun 25 20:23:26 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, whats your overall impression of webos ?
Jun 25 20:23:30 <dsevil> destinal: no
Jun 25 20:23:30 <funkatron> Kaerey: there is, but that's 1st-party. there are no hooks for it for 3rd party apps. yet
Jun 25 20:23:31 <bpadalino|work> destinal, shouldn't
Jun 25 20:23:32 <Technobabble> destinal, no
Jun 25 20:23:38 <Technobabble> openssh still works too
Jun 25 20:23:40 <destinal> hmm, something else must  be wrong then
Jun 25 20:23:40 <PullingJ_> destinal, if you didn't get your firewall rules correct
Jun 25 20:23:50 <Technobabble> destinal, did you forget the port?
Jun 25 20:23:57 <funkatron> bpadalino|work: great OS, great potential, Palm needs to be a lot more open and transparent and embrace to JS app dev community
Jun 25 20:24:16 <Robi-> funkatron: it'll get there, at least it's not JAILED
Jun 25 20:24:28 <Technobabble> what exactly is jailed?
Jun 25 20:24:31 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, neat - just wondering, what do you use for editing your app (texteditor) ?
Jun 25 20:24:33 <PullingJ_> chroot
Jun 25 20:24:41 <Technobabble> everyone always talks about jailbreaking their iphone
Jun 25 20:24:43 <funkatron> bpadalino|work: SpazCore is also on github. the wiki has a pretty good overview of what I'm trying to do with it
Jun 25 20:24:46 <Robi-> jailed as in needing a jailbreak.
Jun 25 20:24:56 <Kaerey> Funk: I'm sure we can get it working!!! I'll start looking at that now that the notification app is packaged and out
Jun 25 20:24:59 <destinal> Technobabble: jailbreak = escape from chroot jail
Jun 25 20:25:00 <funkatron> Always need more devs for the Spaz projects if people are interested
Jun 25 20:25:01 <PullingJ_> breaking out of the chroot environment
Jun 25 20:25:01 <asedeno_work_afk> funkatron: maybe you can tell me why spaz has been a white screen for me since the last update.
Jun 25 20:25:03 <Robi-> a jail is a generic term indicating something you can't get out of.
Jun 25 20:25:10 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, reading now - thanks
Jun 25 20:25:29 <Technobabble> so you couldn't get past the basic features of the phone?
Jun 25 20:25:32 <funkatron> asedeno_work_afk: delete and reinstall. I don't know why that happened, but it didn't show up in Palm's Q&A
Jun 25 20:26:04 <asedeno_work_afk> okay, will do. I've been meaning to do just that, but hadn't gotten around to it yet.
Jun 25 20:26:10 <Kaerey> yeah i had the same white screen issue with the spaz update and then you tweeted back to me
Jun 25 20:26:12 <funkatron> Kaerey: I would love to have a way to get file uploading working. It's a basic feature and it's the only part not there for getting photo uploads working to image services
Jun 25 20:26:28 <funkatron> asedeno_work_afk: yeah, sorry about that man.
Jun 25 20:26:34 <PullingJ_> funkatron, how hard was it to get in appcatalog? any idea why there are still only 30 apps?
Jun 25 20:26:39 <Kaerey> btw funkatron I'm @michaelpule on twitter
Jun 25 20:26:46 <asedeno_work_afk> No worries, was just wondering about it.
Jun 25 20:26:57 <funkatron> oh hi 8)
Jun 25 20:27:14 <funkatron> PullingJ_: I was invited to start working on it in late 2008
Jun 25 20:27:16 <PullingJ_> i'd love to be able to upload to flickr, twitpic, userdefined from the photo/cam apps
Jun 25 20:27:27 <PullingJ_> funkatron, ahh
Jun 25 20:27:45 <bpadalino|work> you were working on it that early? wow
Jun 25 20:27:45 <funkatron> Palm doesn't really tell me much about that, but I am pretty sure it's just a matter of manpower and ramping up processes
Jun 25 20:28:18 <funkatron> they're really new to all this stuff and I think webOS is not terribly mature, so they are taking it really slow
Jun 25 20:28:35 <PullingJ> i can't help but notice the appcatalog is still marked beta.  I am hoping that someday the "beta" will disappear and there will suddenly be many apps.
Jun 25 20:28:40 <funkatron> they're figuring out all this junk -- both policy, legal stuff, and tech, as they go
Jun 25 20:28:42 <PreGame> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jun 25 20:28:51 <PreGame> FLASHLIGHT IPK INSTALLED AND WORKING
Jun 25 20:28:53 <PullingJ> like they are just beta testing the ability to make apps and updates available with the 30 apps they have now
Jun 25 20:28:59 <bpadalino|work> pregame, congrats!
Jun 25 20:29:02 <funkatron> yeah, it will be nice when people can charge for apps too.
Jun 25 20:29:10 <funkatron> That's part of the whole "beta" thing
Jun 25 20:29:16 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, we figured out how to add "native" services to webos .. kind of neat
Jun 25 20:29:25 <PreGame> I am separating the flashlight app from teh service since people are using my service with their programs
Jun 25 20:29:26 <asedeno_work_afk> nice
Jun 25 20:29:32 <funkatron> it occurs to me that I may not have been supposed to say that, so don't quote me 8D
Jun 25 20:29:37 <PreGame> so there will be 2 downloads
Jun 25 20:29:48 <funkatron> bpadalino|work: so what kind of native services are you exposing?
Jun 25 20:30:02 <destinal> /usr/sbin/iptables -D INPUT -p tcp --dport 222 -j ACCEPT || /bin/true
Jun 25 20:30:02 <destinal> /usr/sbin/iptables -I INPUT -p tcp --dport 222 -j ACCEPT
Jun 25 20:30:02 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, right now pregame made something to toggle the LED on the back of the pre ..
Jun 25 20:30:09 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, and a runcmd to expose the terminal
Jun 25 20:30:18 <destinal> but it returns connection refused if dev mode turned off
Jun 25 20:30:19 <funkatron> if you could expose something that wouldl allow for file uploading, Spaz could detect if it exists and take advantage
Jun 25 20:30:33 <funkatron> I'm sure Plalm would love that 8)
Jun 25 20:30:37 <bpadalino|work> haha
Jun 25 20:30:52 <tmzt> destinal: uh, dev mode has nothing to with ip
Jun 25 20:30:56 <dsevil> i thought devmode only turned the novacom protocol on/off
Jun 25 20:31:18 <Robi-> PreGame: good work. what was the final straw?
Jun 25 20:31:20 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, you may be able to set something up with pregame and others to see what we can do
Jun 25 20:31:26 <destinal> well, whatever it does, it breaks turning it off
Jun 25 20:31:32 <PullingJ> devmode opens the firewall wide
Jun 25 20:31:41 <funkatron> Honestly, for me, the big thing I want to see Palm do is open-source Mojo and embrace the JS community. the current situation is kind of sucky
Jun 25 20:31:50 <tmzt> destinal: connection refused usually means the daemon is not listening on that port
Jun 25 20:31:51 <asedeno_work_afk> funkatron: all better, thanks.
Jun 25 20:31:59 <funkatron> asedeno_work_afk: most excellent
Jun 25 20:32:01 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, have you told them this ?
Jun 25 20:32:04 <PreGame> it was having issues running the service
Jun 25 20:32:08 <funkatron> bpadalino|work: oh yeah
Jun 25 20:32:11 <tmzt> sure, but they also have to differentiate their devices
Jun 25 20:32:18 <PullingJ> destinal: tmzt is rigtht, if it was the firewall blocking your access, it would time out
Jun 25 20:32:19 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, are you allowed to say what their response so far has been ?
Jun 25 20:32:33 <funkatron> bpadalino|work: noncommital.
Jun 25 20:32:38 <bpadalino|work> interesting
Jun 25 20:32:43 <destinal> tmzt: ok, so wtf?  this is usbnet btw if it matters
Jun 25 20:32:46 <funkatron> but they're pretty noncommittal about everything
Jun 25 20:33:00 <funkatron> "when will I get a device to test on?" noncommittal
Jun 25 20:33:01 <Robi-> PreGame: you update the wiki page yet?
Jun 25 20:33:05 <bpadalino|work> i suppose they are making sure they don't back themselves into a corner they can't code themselves out of
Jun 25 20:33:06 <tmzt> destinal: paste your iptables commands
Jun 25 20:33:22 <destinal> I just did about a page back
Jun 25 20:33:24 <funkatron> yeah, they aren't making decisions quickly, which I can understand
Jun 25 20:33:48 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, were you eventually able to get a device ?
Jun 25 20:33:49 <funkatron> a lot of Apple folks now at Palm, tho, and the Apple secrecy vibe is worrisome
Jun 25 20:34:11 <timboy> PreGame, have a link to flashlight ipk?
Jun 25 20:34:16 <funkatron> bpadalino|work: oooooooh no. nope. apparently I'm on the list, but no timeframe
Jun 25 20:34:35 <bpadalino|work> wow, very interesting - so you've done ALL your work in the emulator
Jun 25 20:34:41 <funkatron> yes, everything
Jun 25 20:34:45 <bpadalino|work> must be a somewhat accurate emulator ?
Jun 25 20:35:05 <funkatron> I was motified when I saw the performance in that video the dude from MyPre posted
Jun 25 20:35:15 <funkatron> it's very accurate, except for speed
Jun 25 20:35:33 <Robi-> funkatron: they use qemu?
Jun 25 20:35:39 <funkatron> uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Jun 25 20:35:45 <destinal> funkatron: emulator is slow?
Jun 25 20:35:46 <funkatron> I actually don't think I can say
Jun 25 20:35:48 <destinal> or fast?
Jun 25 20:35:48 <bpadalino|work> i wonder if some small tweaks to the emulator could better mimic the speed
Jun 25 20:35:53 <funkatron> no, emulator is faster than device
Jun 25 20:35:55 <bpadalino|work> emulator sounds fast
Jun 25 20:36:01 <PullingJ> haha, remember this channel is logged
Jun 25 20:36:02 <Robi-> no prob. that answers my question :P
Jun 25 20:36:03 <bpadalino|work> and he was surprised his app was so slow on the hardware
Jun 25 20:36:28 <funkatron> Robi- it runs in something anyone can get tho. fwiw
Jun 25 20:36:34 <mdklein_> someone came in here and said that it wasn't technically an emulator, but an execution environment... it didn't run an arm guest... but this is 2nd hand
Jun 25 20:37:03 <funkatron> that is probably more acurrate.
Jun 25 20:37:14 <Robi-> that's another good avenue to pursue.. should be easy to find
Jun 25 20:37:15 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, do you have any plans for other applications using your framework ?
Jun 25 20:37:27 <funkatron> yeah, SpazCore can be used on webOS, Titanium or AIR
Jun 25 20:37:40 <Robi-> bpadalino|work: the 'emu' can run on a 3GHz box :P the pre only has a lil arm proc
Jun 25 20:37:47 <psykoz> meshuga, hi ;)
Jun 25 20:37:50 <Robi-> AIR .. nice
Jun 25 20:37:56 <funkatron> Titanium Mobile looks pretty awesome. If I can get more help, porting it to Titanium for Android would be cool
Jun 25 20:38:06 <Robi-> seesmic and Kodiak ftw
Jun 25 20:38:07 <funkatron> and I want to rewrite the spaz desktop entirely on top of SpazCore
Jun 25 20:38:20 <funkatron> Spaz webOS is the first big app to use it though
Jun 25 20:38:44 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, so any idea why palm approached you in particular ?
Jun 25 20:38:45 <funkatron> given the fact that this is not my day job and I have a family ans shit, I have way more ideas than time
Jun 25 20:39:12 <Robi-> funkatron: time to start a club
Jun 25 20:39:14 <funkatron> bpadalino|work: I think they talked to a friend of mine at Twitter, and Spaz desktop is probably the biggest twitter app that's pureHTML+JS
Jun 25 20:39:25 <bpadalino|work> gotcha
Jun 25 20:39:26 <Robi-> a 'software band' :P
Jun 25 20:39:27 <funkatron> won an award from Adobe, other shit like that
Jun 25 20:39:36 <bpadalino|work> ah, cool
Jun 25 20:39:52 <funkatron> then those fuckers from Pivotal have to ruin my fun 8)
Jun 25 20:40:04 <Robi-> hehe
Jun 25 20:40:47 <Robi-> what happ there?
Jun 25 20:40:51 <mdklein_> funkatron: I would love for palm to release their apps into some sort of open license... cphelps and I have been playing with the browser app(I fixed a bug, and we got a download manager implemented), we would love to release an ipk...  right now people have to figure out how to use our diffs...
Jun 25 20:41:00 <funkatron> But, it's not unlike the situation with the desktop stuff. I work on this in my spare time and don't make any money, and I'm "competing" with folks with VC funding. But I think open source matters, and having alternatives to closed, non-transparent apps is important
Jun 25 20:41:40 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, agreed - love the open source ..
Jun 25 20:41:42 <Robi-> ouch
Jun 25 20:42:07 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, i think the pre is nice since it builds on a lot of open source - and where palm decides it's got IP keeps it closed .. but it's probably one of the most hackable phones out there
Jun 25 20:42:39 <funkatron> mdklein_: right. I would even accept some restrictions on that license -- I can understand that if some company came along and took their webOS shit and put it on their own devices, that would be a real problem. Some compromise that lets people use the FW freely, and contribute to the apps non-commercially, would be good i think
Jun 25 20:43:34 <Robi-> someone will probably come out with a whole luna replacement down the road..
Jun 25 20:43:36 <funkatron> Also, I really hope Palm embraces major JS frameworks as alternatives to Mojo, or makes Mojo work in such a way that it doesn't conflict
Jun 25 20:43:51 <timboy> PreGame, http://upload.info/ will allow for sharing direct link to any file upload you do.
Jun 25 20:44:07 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, some other people have said they were disappointed with prototype being so integrated with mojo
Jun 25 20:44:12 <funkatron> if people can just jump in and write their whole apps in their preferred FW: Mootools, jQuery, YUI, etc -- that will be hude
Jun 25 20:44:14 <funkatron> huge
Jun 25 20:44:20 <funkatron> yeah, I think Prototype was not a good decision
Jun 25 20:44:22 <destinal> if they don't open source mojo, there's always the chance for an interoperable framework to be built ala mono is for .net
Jun 25 20:44:41 <tmzt> it's a great concept
Jun 25 20:44:48 <funkatron> because Prototype modifies code JS objects, it will have more compatibility issues
Jun 25 20:45:14 <bpadalino|work> i wonder if they will try to move that dependency for the future
Jun 25 20:45:17 <funkatron> right. I just think if Palm actually embraces the community, it's a hell of a lot more likely to happen.
Jun 25 20:45:21 <bpadalino|work> but as a stopgap measure, it was good in a pinch
Jun 25 20:45:31 <meshuga> psykoz: yo
Jun 25 20:45:32 <funkatron> right
Jun 25 20:45:38 <destinal> yeah, and it'll be a lot more stable and usable and raise awareness of their platform
Jun 25 20:45:59 <funkatron> the thing is, you should eb able to ditch Mojo
Jun 25 20:46:30 <funkatron> Mojo is just JS. you should be able to just sort out how it's talking to the exposed services and do it in your preferred FW (or no FW if you like)
Jun 25 20:46:38 <timboy> nm i lied
Jun 25 20:46:43 <bpadalino|work> hrmm .. true
Jun 25 20:46:48 <mdklein_> just looking around the code on the device... a lot of it looks rushed...
Jun 25 20:46:58 <bpadalino|work> i suppose mojo provides some nice things like the symbol button screen
Jun 25 20:47:07 <funkatron> after that, it's a matter of getting the same look and feel (if you are concerned about that) for scenes and stage management, and the widgets
Jun 25 20:47:13 <destinal> funkatron: well, for that matter you could just run straight openembedded on the device
Jun 25 20:47:27 <tmzt> are the custom attributes just accessed through DOM, or do they add something to the xml parser/webkit code (which we don't have)
Jun 25 20:47:39 <Robi-> this may all be trivial once mobileOS virtualization comes around
Jun 25 20:47:39 <funkatron> yeah, the reason it use Mojo is because it has the "native" look and feel stuff for the Pre.
Jun 25 20:47:44 <destinal> funkatron: or android, or whatever
Jun 25 20:47:57 <bpadalino|work> any changes to webkit should be on the opensource website
Jun 25 20:48:15 <funkatron> destinal: you could do that too. personally I am interested in web runtime dev, so that's not super appealing to me. but it's cool 8)
Jun 25 20:48:30 <funkatron> tmzt: which custom attributes?
Jun 25 20:48:40 <bpadalino|work> hackability for webos apps is nice - change the JS and it changes the app ..
Jun 25 20:48:55 <mdklein_> I can see that annoying commercial vendors
Jun 25 20:49:15 <bpadalino|work> it already annoyed google - as their google maps app really just downloads their js
Jun 25 20:49:18 <destinal> but yeah I think binaries which can run natively on webos-arm and display within the standard ui have their use too
Jun 25 20:49:20 <bpadalino|work> and doesn't have it local
Jun 25 20:49:46 <timboy> hotlinkfiles.com will allow for hosting of the ipk's
Jun 25 20:49:54 <funkatron> destinal: sure. I like flexibility. I want a device that does more, not less 8D
Jun 25 20:50:21 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, have you used a pre in a sprint store yet ?
Jun 25 20:50:45 <funkatron> bpadalino|work: no. I have used one a friend had for a minute, and I used one back in february
Jun 25 20:50:58 <destinal> usbnet is very handy
Jun 25 20:51:12 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, interesting
Jun 25 20:53:39 <zule> i dont see how they can continue to keep code open like it currently is. Either they will begin obfuscating the webos apps, or they will allow native compiled code. Devs will run screaming away from a all open source enviroment...
Jun 25 20:54:22 <Rick_> or they lock down the install process,  so only approved apps can install, only through the app store
Jun 25 20:54:29 <zule> it almost would have been better not to let the cat "out of the bag" just yet
Jun 25 20:55:16 <funkatron> they will? 8)
Jun 25 20:55:36 <bpadalino|work> zule, i am not sure i 100% agree with that statement
Jun 25 20:55:40 <mdklein_> eh, my coworker really wants one due to the open source environment :-p
Jun 25 20:55:59 <destinal> zule: well, they already allow compiled code, right?  ie classic?
Jun 25 20:56:00 <mdklein_> but then again he owns an openmoko
Jun 25 20:56:07 <Robi-> uhh
Jun 25 20:56:16 <Robi-> some of those phones are terrible
Jun 25 20:56:25 <zule> heh, I could be wrong, but those are the most likely 2 scenarios I see. I'm guessing the sdk delay is due to them wanting to go mojo everything, and someone more recently saw the "bug" with this method
Jun 25 20:56:29 <zule> but that's me
Jun 25 20:56:55 <bpadalino|work> android just came out with a native developer kit today .. kind of interesting
Jun 25 20:56:57 <mdklein_> I don't disagree, and neither does he... which is why he wants a palm :-p his production use phone is some treo running palmos, I had to show him there was a classic environment available to fully persuade him
Jun 25 20:57:06 <destinal> yeah, I bought the phone because it's got both a good gui and an openembedded base
Jun 25 20:57:06 <bpadalino|work> but i don't see any reason that couldn't work for palm and their webos
Jun 25 20:57:27 <destinal> and not a crypto locked firmware
Jun 25 20:57:54 <Technobabble> what's the debate i walked in on here?
Jun 25 20:57:55 <Robi-> Palm this time around has a big incentive to make everyone happy, it's their big comeback. i doubt they'll go the way of apple locking stuff down excessively
Jun 25 20:58:27 <Technobabble> i would think they wouldn't lock it simply because it doesn't work, right?
Jun 25 20:58:33 <zule> oh I don't think they will lock it down, I imagine they just are going to have to open the sdk for native code as well
Jun 25 20:58:39 <destinal> Technobabble: that didn't stop apple :)
Jun 25 20:58:47 <Technobabble> well, it did
Jun 25 20:58:52 <Technobabble> it didn't stop them from TRYING though
Jun 25 20:59:23 <Kaerey> didn't pregame just exclaim he got the ipk working for the flashlight?
Jun 25 20:59:27 <destinal> Technobabble: it's actually possible to lock down a phone totally if you go crypto bootloader on up and don't have any vulnerabilities in that chain
Jun 25 20:59:28 <zule> apple is all about locks... look at the 3gs upgrade from the 3g... negligable improvements... The biggest change is, they closed the "jailbreak" hardware bug
Jun 25 20:59:49 <destinal> it's cool that palm didn't go draconian though.  that only serves to lock out device owners which IMO is evil
Jun 25 20:59:54 <Technobabble> zule, and added video!
Jun 25 20:59:56 <bpadalino|work> they closed the unlocking break, not the jailbreak i thought
Jun 25 21:00:08 <zule> no, they closed the jailbreak
Jun 25 21:00:11 <zule> unlock is wide open
Jun 25 21:00:21 <zule> even on 3gs, but there is no way to get to it, currently
Jun 25 21:00:37 <zule> signed bootloader and on up
Jun 25 21:00:40 <zule> as just mentioned
Jun 25 21:00:50 <zule> the previous jailbreak was a bug in the hardware port
Jun 25 21:00:58 <PullingJ> but the 3gs has nothing over 3g besides speed at this point
Jun 25 21:01:10 <PullingJ> oh and a compass
Jun 25 21:01:21 <zule> yep, I almost see it as a hey, let's close up the bug, release...
Jun 25 21:01:24 <Robi-> compass is very useful
Jun 25 21:01:38 <PullingJ> i did see that it showed which way you were facing in google maps
Jun 25 21:01:43 <destinal> I was considering buying an iphone 3g or 3gs, then I saw the pre hacked announcement and called my sprint store to get on the waiting list. :)
Jun 25 21:01:47 <PullingJ> but isn't there already a compass "app"?
Jun 25 21:02:00 <Technobabble> i always thought of it like that one Chris Rock special when he talks about people bragging about stuff they're SUPPOSED to do.  "we have copy and paste!"
Jun 25 21:02:08 <zule> compass is nothing gps can't give you if you walk in a line for a few moments
Jun 25 21:02:35 <Robi-> zule: that's the point, it can very much enhance gaming w/o moving much
Jun 25 21:02:38 <mdklein_> as long as you can write your app as a client-server you could probably have your heavy lifting running natively as a service, and just have your "open" code be a UI talking to a local socket... I think that's how classic is handling it... sure it's a plugin, but it's also running as a service...
Jun 25 21:03:00 <mdklein_> /usr/bin/PalmClassic
Jun 25 21:03:01 <zule> umm, what?! gaming?!
Jun 25 21:03:02 <zule> no
Jun 25 21:03:18 <zule> the 3-axis accelerometer is way more precise than the magetometer
Jun 25 21:03:27 <zule> magnet*
Jun 25 21:03:34 <bpadalino|work> magnetometer is good enough to get a general direction tho
Jun 25 21:03:49 <zule> when no imposing fields are around
Jun 25 21:04:06 <bpadalino|work> zule, true
Jun 25 21:04:06 <zule> whens the last time you had a compass indoors with modern electronics around it
Jun 25 21:04:15 <zule> mine don't point north for years now
Jun 25 21:04:22 <zule> heh
Jun 25 21:04:27 <bpadalino|work> when was the last time you needed a compass ?
Jun 25 21:04:32 <bpadalino|work> indoors that is
Jun 25 21:04:42 <zule> never... just for testing
Jun 25 21:05:09 <zule> i see it being useful in the outdoors
Jun 25 21:05:15 <zule> but hey, you have a gps for that
Jun 25 21:05:16 <mdklein_> I don't know the last time I needed a compass
Jun 25 21:05:17 <bpadalino|work> or navigating a city
Jun 25 21:05:23 <bpadalino|work> gps requires deltas ..
Jun 25 21:05:24 <mdklein_> I guess I use my car's compass
Jun 25 21:05:28 <bpadalino|work> which, when standing still, are not very good
Jun 25 21:05:46 <PreGame> looks like you cant install a java service via ipk
Jun 25 21:06:02 <bpadalino|work> pregame, you need to modify the java commandline
Jun 25 21:06:07 <bpadalino|work> that runs in the beginning
Jun 25 21:06:18 <bpadalino|work> to include your service
Jun 25 21:06:29 <PreGame> huh?
Jun 25 21:06:43 <PreGame> wouldn't you need root for that?
Jun 25 21:06:56 <zule> i happen to be a iphone guy, just debating jumping back to sprint for a pre... I waited a long time for a linux phone like that... iphone dev sucks, requires a mac or a hacked to high heaven toolchain
Jun 25 21:07:01 <bpadalino|work> yeah i suppose you do
Jun 25 21:07:13 <PreGame> yea i want to do it without needing root
Jun 25 21:07:38 <bpadalino|work> ipkg doesn't run as root when you install a new app ?
Jun 25 21:07:48 <cphelps> funkatron: have you ever known a textfield to swallow up the Enter event?
Jun 25 21:07:50 <PreGame> i'm doing it via email
Jun 25 21:08:06 <bpadalino|work> pregame, ok .. but when ipkg is called - it isn't being run as root ?
Jun 25 21:08:11 <mdklein_> yeah, but the ipkg process should run as root I'd imagine
Jun 25 21:08:13 <Adidas> I keep thinking about going out to get an iphone and brining back this pre for 1 feature. auto login to websites. This is so important to me. somone please tell me that this can easily be made to work on the pre with a futre hack or app. Came to you guys cause you guys know your shit
Jun 25 21:08:16 <PreGame> i'm guessing yes
Jun 25 21:08:20 <funkatron> cphelps: make sure your widget attributers are set correctly. Check how I'm doing it in SearchTwitterAssistant
Jun 25 21:08:31 <funkatron> it won't fire if you don't enable a couple things, IIRC
Jun 25 21:08:36 <PreGame> but how would i change it to run like that via the ipk package?
Jun 25 21:09:06 <zule> Adidas, if the browser remains open like it currently is that's not a very difficult hack other then learning the calls
Jun 25 21:09:11 <bpadalino|work> pregame, i need to find the script ..
Jun 25 21:09:12 <bpadalino|work> hold on
Jun 25 21:10:55 <bpadalino|work> pregame, must require a reboot ..
Jun 25 21:11:02 <bpadalino|work> pregame, check out java-serviceboot in /usr/bin ..
Jun 25 21:11:18 <bpadalino|work> it gets the classpath bu looking in /usr/lib/luna/jav
Jun 25 21:11:29 <bpadalino|work> so if you put the service in that directory
Jun 25 21:11:47 <PreGame> no there is commands i can run via luna-helper but i wont unpack the .jar file
Jun 25 21:12:00 <PreGame> i can run the commands via the postinst script
Jun 25 21:12:35 <bpadalino|work> pregame, i am saying if you put the jar in the correct place ..
Jun 25 21:12:41 <bpadalino|work> it will automatically get reloaded on reboot
Jun 25 21:13:27 <Kaerey> Funkatron: I found the part on uploading and there is some commented out code where they were testing photobucket uploads as well
Jun 25 21:13:32 <PreGame> i know but it doesn't want to unpack the .jar
Jun 25 21:13:40 <PreGame> let me try something
Jun 25 21:13:55 <funkatron> Kaerey: I would be interested in that
Jun 25 21:13:56 <mdklein_> initctl stop java-serviceboot;initctl start java-serviceboot won't do it?
Jun 25 21:14:17 <destinal> Adidas: auto-login to websites?  what do you mean?
Jun 25 21:14:24 <bpadalino|work> mdklein, possibly - but i am not sure what would happen to luna if you took away all those services
Jun 25 21:14:25 <bpadalino|work> and restarted them
Jun 25 21:14:29 <mdklein_> let me try it
Jun 25 21:14:45 <destinal> does the iphone do something the pre doesn't?
Jun 25 21:15:01 <mdklein_> Phone offline
Jun 25 21:15:03 <mdklein_> lol
Jun 25 21:15:12 <mdklein_> ok
Jun 25 21:15:13 <mdklein_> back up
Jun 25 21:15:14 <mdklein_> Sprint
Jun 25 21:15:17 <bpadalino|work> did it come back up no problem ?
Jun 25 21:15:20 <Technobabble> do you guys think it's possible to get skype running on this phone?
Jun 25 21:15:26 <mdklein_> yeah, it took like 10 secs
Jun 25 21:15:45 <bpadalino|work> good to know tho
Jun 25 21:16:04 <bpadalino|work> so yeah, pregame - put your jar in /usr/lib/luna/java then run those initctl commands
Jun 25 21:16:21 <bpadalino|work> should run your new java service
Jun 25 21:16:28 <xandrake> afternoon all.
Jun 25 21:16:35 <Rick_> he's back
Jun 25 21:16:40 <xandrake> :D
Jun 25 21:16:49 <xandrake> long day @ work. :-\
Jun 25 21:17:28 <xandrake> Anything new surface since my absence?
Jun 25 21:17:54 <Rick_> yeah, a few things.
Jun 25 21:18:04 <xandrake> Do tell!
Jun 25 21:18:07 <Rick_> PreGame got the flashlight app installing from an ipk
Jun 25 21:18:17 <Rick_> including installing his java mojo service
Jun 25 21:18:22 <xandrake> <3<3<3
Jun 25 21:18:41 <Rick_> funkatron posted the complete source to his spaz app on git.
Jun 25 21:18:55 <Technobabble> does the wiki have a news section?
Jun 25 21:19:15 <Rick_> we've been beating webos mojo fussy bits for hours....
Jun 25 21:19:46 <funkatron> I do that sometimes.
Jun 25 21:19:48 <Rick_> cphelps is about done with a run command app that will use PreGame's service to allow you to run command lines from the mojo interface.
Jun 25 21:19:50 <Technobabble> oh yeah, duh, right here
Jun 25 21:20:08 <funkatron> I will say tho, the rough cuts book is nice. it was worth it for me already, and I bought it last night
Jun 25 21:20:24 <Robi-> wow SC9 took a dump
Jun 25 21:20:32 <funkatron> although some of the code is wrong in it atm
Jun 25 21:20:50 <dsevil> and the complete source for the sample news app isn't in there
Jun 25 21:21:14 <dsevil> been trying to use it to learn stuff
Jun 25 21:23:21 <funkatron> the one from the book? I actually haven't looked through it all yet. it may help me in that it fills in some gaps, but might be harder for a beginner
Jun 25 21:24:06 <bpadalino|work> good day mr aylott
Jun 25 21:24:13 <Aylott> ahoy
Jun 25 21:24:18 <bpadalino|work> how are things ?
Jun 25 21:25:11 <Aylott> well enough I suppose
Jun 25 21:25:44 <bpadalino|work> well that's good ..
Jun 25 21:26:06 <bpadalino|work> enjoying hacking around with <redacted> ?
Jun 25 21:26:24 <Rick_> the fact that the APPENDIXs of the book aren't available yet, which is what contains all the mojo DETAILS and of course, the text of the book references them all the time is --annoying---
Jun 25 21:26:33 <Rick_> but other than that,it's been absolutely worth reading
Jun 25 21:26:48 <Rick_> the pdf has been open on my desktop for four days
Jun 25 21:26:56 <funkatron> right, I can get all that shit myself since I'm in the program, but that would likely be annoying
Jun 25 21:27:14 <Aylott> bpadalino|work: I haven't really had much time for it lately
Jun 25 21:27:21 <Aylott> trying to get some paid work out of the way
Jun 25 21:27:27 <bpadalino|work> understandable
Jun 25 21:27:41 <Aylott> working on some awesome stuff for Espresso
Jun 25 21:27:53 <bpadalino|work> very cool - your new favorite editor ?
Jun 25 21:28:07 <Aylott> yup
Jun 25 21:28:16 <Aylott> still love textmate, but Espresso is very nice
Jun 25 21:28:43 <bpadalino|work> do you work for yourself ?
Jun 25 21:29:38 <xandrake> Sorry for the silly question -- but where are all of these homebrew aps located?
Jun 25 21:33:35 <Rick_> some are on the wiki in various paces.
Jun 25 21:33:43 <Rick_> some are on the homebrew thread at precentral
Jun 25 21:34:07 <Rick_> and some are still beta and not yet ready for prime time
Jun 25 21:34:37 <xandrake> ahh
Jun 25 21:34:51 <Technobabble> quick question about the Hash codes, where do you put them?
Jun 25 21:35:07 <Robi-> dialer
Jun 25 21:35:24 <Rick_> in the phone app
Jun 25 21:36:50 <Technobabble> i try ##GPS# and it comes out ##6p(nothing for the s)#
Jun 25 21:36:58 <bdumm> Technobabble, heed the warnings :)
Jun 25 21:37:14 <Technobabble> heh, i am, i just wanted to see the GPS stuff
Jun 25 21:37:27 <bpadalino|work> technobabble, spell out GPS with the numbers
Jun 25 21:37:46 <Technobabble> with the numbers...
Jun 25 21:37:56 <bpadalino|work> with the numbers
Jun 25 21:38:25 <bclancy> ##477# (and not literally "gps")
Jun 25 21:38:28 <Technobabble> so it's 477
Jun 25 21:38:31 <Technobabble> gotcha
Jun 25 21:38:50 * bdumm chuckles
Jun 25 21:42:29 <Technobabble> how come getting a fix in these programs takes so long, but in google maps it does it like a couple times a second
Jun 25 21:42:38 <Robi-> that's the cool part of the dialer it does both spell and numbers  whichever one works..
Jun 25 21:43:00 <bpadalino|work> technobabble, accuracy ?
Jun 25 21:43:16 <Robi-> gmaps can cheat
Jun 25 21:43:24 <Technobabble> i would assume just 2 seconds or so would do it pretty well
Jun 25 21:46:09 <bclancy> there was a post on precentral.net describing 4 modes GPS can be in -  I'll search for the link and post it here ---
Jun 25 21:48:10 <Technobabble> i actually see the lat/lon in the debug information with the GPS turned off, cell tower triangulation for this position?
Jun 25 21:48:22 <xandrake> Aye.
Jun 25 21:48:28 <Technobabble> interesting
Jun 25 21:48:39 <gkatsev> hey guys, im trying to root my pre but to no avail. i followed all the steps listed but it says that it could not find the pre and that i should come here. i was using novaproxy on vista
Jun 25 21:49:02 <bclancy> Yep, and if you enter ##debug# with your phone off (in airplane mode), it still talks with the tower too
Jun 25 21:49:23 <xandrake> If I remember correctly there is constant transmission even with radios off foe e911 svcs
Jun 25 21:49:57 <bclancy> makes sense, it lists a different mode in one of the debug values
Jun 25 21:50:17 <Technobabble> so what's the point of airplane mode anyway?
Jun 25 21:50:34 <xandrake> CDMA signal isn't always searching
Jun 25 21:50:59 <Technobabble> a 400 dollar phone can't interfere with a multi million dollar plane guidence system
Jun 25 21:51:01 <Technobabble> can it?
Jun 25 21:51:09 <freakshow> that's not the problem
Jun 25 21:51:17 <freakshow> your phone will ping every tower it crosses over
Jun 25 21:51:18 <xandrake> It actually can cause interference
Jun 25 21:51:28 <hemna|work> airplane mode is to help save your battery :)
Jun 25 21:53:03 <gkatsev> could it be because the computer i was using didnt have a wifi card or it should matter?
Jun 25 21:53:22 <xandrake> What?
Jun 25 21:53:23 <bclancy> supposidly "turn on airplane mode" is another way of saying "turn off phone" ... not sure how to really turn it off
Jun 25 21:53:35 <xandrake> pull the battery  :D
Jun 25 21:53:37 <Technobabble> taking the battery out would do it
Jun 25 21:54:20 <gkatsev>  if you press and hold the button there it should eventually ask you to turn the phone off
Jun 25 21:54:22 <bclancy> "Call Processing State" is the debug variable that changes when the phone is on or off (there may be others)
Jun 25 21:55:00 <Rick_> gkatsev  --
Jun 25 21:55:36 <Rick_> gkatsev -- if you go to my control panel / device manager  does novacomm appear as a device?  Does it have a yellow exlcamation point on it?
Jun 25 21:56:02 <gkatsev> Rick_: yep
Jun 25 21:56:46 <rwhitby> morning
Jun 25 21:56:57 <xandrake> evening  ;)
Jun 25 21:57:02 <Rick_> if it has a yellow exclamation point, then the novacomm drivers didn't work.
Jun 25 21:57:12 <Rick_> are you on 64 bit vista or 32?
Jun 25 21:57:20 <gkatsev> oh, 64, duh...
Jun 25 21:57:33 <Rick_> that would be a problem.  Did you install the 64 bit drivers?
Jun 25 21:57:36 <gkatsev> let me try the 64 installer
Jun 25 21:57:41 <Rick_> uninstall the 32 first
Jun 25 21:57:53 <xandrake> Look at Rick, solving problems left and right.
Jun 25 21:58:03 <xandrake>   /cheer
Jun 25 21:58:34 <gkatsev> Rick_: yeah, that was stupid though... and I call myself a CS student (lol, i am :)
Jun 25 21:58:49 <rwhitby> xandrake: http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html ;-)
Jun 25 21:59:12 <xandrake> UGT ftw.
Jun 25 21:59:22 <gkatsev> ok, now it works, w00t
Jun 25 21:59:31 <Technobabble> MJ died?
Jun 25 21:59:53 <xandrake> MJ?
Jun 25 22:00:01 <gkatsev> michael jackson
Jun 25 22:00:09 <Kaerey> @spaz (aka Funkatron) let me know if you need "beta" testers for spaz.
Jun 25 22:00:26 <funkatron> yes, email me at spaz@funkatron.com
Jun 25 22:00:34 <funkatron> I would like to have more people on the list for test builds
Jun 25 22:00:46 <Technobabble> i'll test
Jun 25 22:00:50 <Technobabble> what am i testing?
Jun 25 22:00:51 <Tiv_> i downloaded the update for spaz as well, but I haven't used it
Jun 25 22:00:56 <Tiv_> twitter app.
Jun 25 22:01:48 <funkatron> yeah, send email if you wanna be on the list
Jun 25 22:02:54 <bclancy> funkatron, are you looking for any specific sort of testing (Ie:  deployment) or just looking for people to try things out and catch bugs?
Jun 25 22:03:02 <Kaerey> will do funkatron. I prefer  your colors layout and the programs memory for where I last viewed tweets. but for some reason I trend towards tweed for posting on the go.
Jun 25 22:03:15 <funkatron> user testing, overall
Jun 25 22:03:40 <funkatron> Kaerey: the newest builds improve posting quite a bit, I think
Jun 25 22:03:45 <bclancy> OK. I'll snd you an email (Bob Clancy)
Jun 25 22:03:49 <funkatron> word up!
Jun 25 22:04:55 <cphelps> funkatron: any idea what a person has to insert into a text field to get a line feed?
Jun 25 22:05:18 <funkatron> you have to disable enter on submit, I believe
Jun 25 22:05:57 <cphelps> funkatron: programmatically in this case
Jun 25 22:06:01 <funkatron> ohhhh
Jun 25 22:06:14 <rwhitby> cphelps: still around?
Jun 25 22:06:25 <cphelps> rwhitby: I is.
Jun 25 22:06:34 <funkatron> get the value from the model, insert a line feed into the string, set the value, tell the controller the model has changed
Jun 25 22:06:35 <funkatron> I think
Jun 25 22:07:16 <Kaerey> LOL "I want to go to there" that's just awesome and I don't even watch 30 rock
Jun 25 22:07:26 <funkatron> hehe
Jun 25 22:08:00 <cphelps> funkatron: that's what I am doing.
Jun 25 22:08:27 <cphelps>                 this.commandOutputTextModel.value = "# " + this.commandText + "\n" + this.commandOutputTextModel.value;
Jun 25 22:08:29 <cphelps>                 this.controller.modelChanged(this.commandOutputTextModel);
Jun 25 22:08:31 <Robi-> diesn't shift-enter work?
Jun 25 22:08:48 <Robi-> or orange-enter
Jun 25 22:09:12 <funkatron> well, I'd have to try it myself. seems like that would work
Jun 25 22:11:01 <Robi-> Palm loss narrower than expected, shares leap http://www.nonstoptechnews.com/32642
Jun 25 22:11:18 <funkatron> damn, shoulda bought them at $2
Jun 25 22:11:25 <asedeno_work_afk> ==
Jun 25 22:13:55 <Robi-> its a $2 jump, not stratospheric
Jun 25 22:13:58 <rwhitby> cphelps: what were you going to try out, git-wise?
Jun 25 22:14:09 <funkatron> it's a 13% jump. that's huge
Jun 25 22:14:19 <funkatron> in general
Jun 25 22:14:20 <rwhitby> funkatron: congrats on the first major open source app for the Pre.
Jun 25 22:14:30 <rwhitby> funkatron: if we can help out in any way, just let us know.
Jun 25 22:14:31 <funkatron> and performance of Palm in the last 6 months is crazy
Jun 25 22:15:07 <cphelps> rwhitby: I'll get back to you when I have this app licked
Jun 25 22:15:10 <funkatron> rwhitby: thanks! yes, we need more coders, testers, and folks willing to do support. I'd jump on the google groups and let us know what you're interested in
Jun 25 22:15:21 <helfire> anyone know if you can run crond while the device is in standby/sleep?
Jun 25 22:15:55 <rwhitby> funkatron: do you have an scm site hosting where you have team facilities?
Jun 25 22:16:01 <funkatron> github
Jun 25 22:16:09 <funkatron> github.com/funkatron/spaz-webos
Jun 25 22:16:47 <rwhitby> did you consider gitorious at all?  I was impressed by the fact that gitorious makes the source code of their hosting solution available :-)
Jun 25 22:17:10 <funkatron> I do like that, yes. I actually used GitHub b/c I needed private hosting for a couple things
Jun 25 22:17:22 <funkatron> including the first 6 months or so of Spaz on webOS
Jun 25 22:17:38 <rwhitby> we have http://gitorious.org/webos-internals which you're welcome to join if you like
Jun 25 22:17:52 <cphelps> funkatron: that newline did work, just luna hadn't been restarted
Jun 25 22:18:06 <funkatron> cphelps: sounds like something I'd do
Jun 25 22:18:09 <Robi-> ouch found a bug
Jun 25 22:18:29 <cphelps> funkatron: long day, and I skipped lunch :-(
Jun 25 22:18:42 <cphelps> funkatron: but we'll have a command line app before I leave today, promise!
Jun 25 22:18:42 <Robi-> when you end a call and never toss the app card, you get left with an empty card with just the background..
Jun 25 22:18:46 <rwhitby> cphelps: we have three modifications patches available now, so there's enough for some stgit or quilt workflow experimentation
Jun 25 22:18:53 <funkatron> rwhitby: I'll check it out
Jun 25 22:19:18 <tictac> bah. this "i dont want to turn on when im dead" even while charging is bs
Jun 25 22:19:29 <rwhitby> funkatron: are you aware of any good "webos-internals"-like mailing lists existing already?
Jun 25 22:19:44 <cphelps> rwhitby: I'll be on it tomorrow, promise. Tonight I've got wine tasting after work, so probably won't get to it afterward
Jun 25 22:19:49 <PreGame> michael jackson just had a heart attack
Jun 25 22:19:49 <funkatron> rwhitby: not really, no. this is the first group I've started poking around it
Jun 25 22:19:54 <tictac> in other news, i dropped the pre earlier and now i can see through the top portion of the slider :-/
Jun 25 22:20:05 <funkatron> interestingly I'm getting much more activity in here about app dev than #webos
Jun 25 22:20:14 <destinal> what's up with closing the keyboard too hard and the phone rebooting?  do I need a business card for the battery?
Jun 25 22:21:20 <Technobabble> i've never seen that
Jun 25 22:21:29 <shaya> destinal: some review said some were a little lose
Jun 25 22:21:31 <rwhitby> funkatron: I expect that will change when the SDK is released
Jun 25 22:21:36 <shaya> causes the battery to jiggle and lose conncetion
Jun 25 22:21:39 <PreGame> destinal: there is a post in the forums, its because the battery is loose
Jun 25 22:21:43 <funkatron> rwhitby: I hope so
Jun 25 22:21:53 <tictac> PreGame: tmz says he is dead
Jun 25 22:22:22 <rwhitby> Aussie news sites say he's died.
Jun 25 22:22:38 <PullingJ> la times is reporting he's in a coma
Jun 25 22:22:55 <Technobabble> they just changed it to dead
Jun 25 22:22:55 <PullingJ> breaking news still on all other news site.
Jun 25 22:22:55 <cphelps> PreGame: can you lay out how to get output from your service call?
Jun 25 22:22:58 <PreGame> tmz is all drama
Jun 25 22:23:08 <Technobabble> LA times has him as dead now
Jun 25 22:23:15 <PreGame> cnn and msnbc say he was revived by the paramedics
Jun 25 22:23:39 <funkatron> rwhitby: how do I join a team, or even just watch a project, on Gitorious?
Jun 25 22:23:43 <helfire> can crond run scrips while the phone's screen is off?
Jun 25 22:23:44 <bclancy> I'm just glad it's not the big fat "beer hunter" (beer taster) with the same name!
Jun 25 22:23:51 <rwhitby> funkatron: create an account, and let me know the username
Jun 25 22:24:06 <funkatron> I bet you can guess the username
Jun 25 22:24:42 <rwhitby> funkatron: done
Jun 25 22:24:50 <funkatron> weee!
Jun 25 22:24:57 <Technobabble> bclancy, i think crond does run every minute no matter what
Jun 25 22:25:28 <Technobabble> does crond run on the pre by default?
Jun 25 22:25:41 <helfire> Technobabble: my script doesnt run when the phone screen is off
Jun 25 22:26:21 <tictac> when we get into the bootrom we need to allow powering on if the pre is being charged.
Jun 25 22:26:25 <Rick_> ok.   off to home.   may see me later.
Jun 25 22:26:26 <cphelps> PreGame: pretty pretty please
Jun 25 22:26:27 <Rick_> byebye
Jun 25 22:26:40 * tictac is without a phone for an hour or two because of it. what a pita.
Jun 25 22:26:42 <bclancy> rwhitby, I'm reading up on git at safari.oreilly.com - haven't forgotten you - haven't installed git yet  - will soon
Jun 25 22:27:41 <funkatron> okay, time to head home
Jun 25 22:27:51 <helfire> also is there a way to call a shell script from the a gui?
Jun 25 22:28:05 <Rick_> there is if you install PreGame's service.
Jun 25 22:28:21 <Rick_> and we'll have a mojo command line utiliity by sometime tonight
Jun 25 22:28:31 <Technobabble> rick, is that the flashlight one?
Jun 25 22:28:48 <cphelps> Technobabble: let RIck go home
Jun 25 22:28:48 <Rick_> PreGame has split his install into the flashlight APP and the SERVICE behind it.
Jun 25 22:28:51 <Rick_> two installs.
Jun 25 22:29:03 <Technobabble> sorry rick, gtfo
Jun 25 22:29:09 <tictac> heh
Jun 25 22:29:33 <Rick_> the service contains a massive huge backdoor that lets you run ANY command from a mojo app.
Jun 25 22:29:51 <Rick_> it's not interactive -- you can't run an editor yet that way-- that's for later.  but it's a start.
Jun 25 22:29:54 <rwhitby> what's the service id now?
Jun 25 22:30:00 <helfire> Rick_ cool thats what i want :)
Jun 25 22:30:28 * rwhitby hopes it's something like org.webosinternals.shell or something
Jun 25 22:30:30 <helfire> sitll cant figure out why my crond scripts wont run while the phone screenturns off
Jun 25 22:31:21 <Rick_> it is.
Jun 25 22:31:30 <Rick_> look at http://pbbans.com/patc/flashlight_0.3_arm.ipk
Jun 25 22:32:02 <Rick_> (which doesn't install... but you can untar it and look at the way the service is,and the scripts -- the WORKING ipk hasn't been posted yet.
Jun 25 22:32:12 <Rick_> <-- gone -- really
Jun 25 22:32:19 * tictac kicks Rick_ out
Jun 25 22:32:34 <rwhitby> is the source for the service up somewhere?
Jun 25 22:35:04 <Robi-> Rick_: that link no longer works btw
Jun 25 22:37:02 * rwhitby bbl
Jun 25 22:38:19 * xandrake bbl
Jun 25 22:38:25 <tmzt> the service uses native calls?
Jun 25 22:40:38 <cphelps> tmzt: yep
Jun 25 22:40:43 <tictac> bah. i didnt know xorg had something setup in kc. unfortunately, im in wa now instead of topeka. soab.
Jun 25 22:40:57 * cphelps however, cannot verify that it will return anything
Jun 25 22:40:57 <tmzt> so terminal is doable without socket?
Jun 25 22:41:07 <tmzt> kc?
Jun 25 22:41:09 <tmzt> oh
Jun 25 22:41:10 <cphelps> tmzt: in certain respects
Jun 25 22:42:27 <cphelps> can anyone verify that I am supposed to pass PreGame's service an onSuccess and onFailure function?
Jun 25 22:47:58 <cphelps> PreGame: come on dude, just a little hinty hint about what is supposed to be sent back?
Jun 25 22:48:23 <tictac> alright. ive found that when you have your phone on a touchstone rather than the wall wart, it turns on faster when the battery is fully dead
Jun 25 22:48:57 <tictac> i guess because the touchstone has 1000ma and the usb has 500
Jun 25 22:52:14 <bclancy> Funkatron emailed me the following link:  <http://files.getdropbox.com/u/361393/com.funkatron.app.spaz_0.4.11_all-20090625.ipk>
Jun 25 22:52:47 <Binarytech> Man this is a sad day :( michael jackson is dead
Jun 25 22:52:54 <bclancy> When I tried to open it on a non-rooted pre, I get several blank cards opening up one after the other
Jun 25 22:53:12 <asedeno_work_afk> As do I. I was going to report it, but he left.
Jun 25 22:53:16 <bclancy> Anyone know if I'm doing something wrong?
Jun 25 22:53:31 <bclancy> OK, so it's not just me then- thx
Jun 25 22:53:54 <asedeno_work_afk> Also, the email client took the > as part of the url, which was unfortunate. I'm not sure why the url was in angle brackets in the first place.
Jun 25 22:54:54 <bclancy>  same thing here, I might try to send the email back to myself w/o the angle brackets to see if that helps ...
Jun 25 22:57:22 <kpreid> hm, that's wrong, URLs are defined to not contain <>
Jun 25 22:57:54 <cphelps> ok folks we have a working command line app
Jun 25 22:58:53 <tictac> cphelps: screenshots or it didnt happen
Jun 25 22:59:02 <cphelps> tictac: 5 minutes
Jun 25 22:59:06 <tictac> 5 mins?
Jun 25 22:59:07 <asedeno_work_afk> is that to say a terminal, or a thing we can type commands into and have them get run?
Jun 25 22:59:19 <cphelps> asedeno_work_afk: the latter
Jun 25 22:59:25 <tictac> OR+Sym+R | photos > upload
Jun 25 22:59:29 <asedeno_work_afk> drat. It's a good start though. :)
Jun 25 22:59:40 <cphelps> asedeno_work_afk: yep
Jun 25 22:59:47 <tictac> s/\|/\&\&/
Jun 25 23:00:24 <blau-mikedg> hi
Jun 25 23:00:34 <blau-mikedg> anyone know when sdk access is gonna start flowing?
Jun 25 23:00:39 <cphelps> unsure what is going on, but all the output is concatenated ans a single string or me
Jun 25 23:04:13 <blau-mikedg> wish osx would let us work in eclipse
Jun 25 23:04:14 <blau-mikedg> lol
Jun 25 23:08:19 <jblebrun> cphelps: Are you rendering the output in a <pre> tag?
Jun 25 23:08:45 <cphelps> jblebrun: It's in a text field, not a webview
Jun 25 23:09:12 <cphelps> jblebrun: the same thing happens on the command line with luna-send
Jun 25 23:09:22 <cphelps> which I suspect means its an array of lines maybe?
Jun 25 23:10:28 <bclancy> I forwarded funkatron's email back to myself (editing out the forward and ending angle brackets) and ...
Jun 25 23:11:00 <bclancy> ... nothing happened when I clicked on the email (maybe it has to be sent from him (ie a matching signature?)
Jun 25 23:18:43 <PreGame> so my postinst script works if i run the ipkg install via root but if i install via email the postinst doesn't work
Jun 25 23:19:10 <cphelps> http://smatrix.com/~cphelps/screencaptures/commander.png
Jun 25 23:19:12 <Robi-> what does postinst do ?
Jun 25 23:19:43 <bpadalino> Commander
Jun 25 23:19:43 <bpadalino> awesome
Jun 25 23:19:58 <Robi-> cphelps: what's the key combo to do that?
Jun 25 23:20:04 <Robi-> screen cap
Jun 25 23:20:12 <dsevil> orange + sym + p
Jun 25 23:20:12 <cphelps> orange sym p
Jun 25 23:20:19 <Robi-> k
Jun 25 23:20:28 <Robi-> 3 fingers needed?
Jun 25 23:20:34 <PreGame> Robi-: It moves the service and its files to the correct directory
Jun 25 23:20:41 <PreGame> otherwise they are installed in /var
Jun 25 23:20:46 <cphelps> bpadalino: It looks like ass, but that's enough hours for me today
Jun 25 23:21:01 <dsevil> Robi-: 1 finger with a couple really big callouses + another finger will also do the trick
Jun 25 23:21:02 <cphelps> PreGame: how is the output of your service formatted?
Jun 25 23:21:06 <dsevil> :)
Jun 25 23:21:11 <Robi-> PreGame: well that aparently needs the correct permissions so.. how else can you handle that
Jun 25 23:22:01 <PreGame> its output int the returned: value but on the next release it will be output to the returned value
Jun 25 23:22:16 <PreGame> new release wont have the :
Jun 25 23:22:27 <ProtossEX> Is their a way to get any good games on the pre
Jun 25 23:22:47 <PreGame> in my preinst i have it set mount -o remount rw, /
Jun 25 23:22:51 <PreGame> then it installs the files
Jun 25 23:23:12 <PreGame> then in the postinst it runs the mv commands to move from the temp /var directory to the /usr and /etc directory
Jun 25 23:23:27 <PreGame> it works if i run the ipkg install from root but not if i run it via email
Jun 25 23:23:47 <cphelps> PreGame: I'm not sure what you mean. I found the output in response.output, but it's all jammed together.
Jun 25 23:24:08 <PreGame> what does it look like?
Jun 25 23:24:25 <cphelps> see the screencap I just posted
Jun 25 23:24:38 <cphelps> http://smatrix.com/~cphelps/screencaptures/commander.png
Jun 25 23:24:44 <PreGame> ahhh i see
Jun 25 23:24:59 <PreGame> i will work on it when i get home
Jun 25 23:25:12 <cphelps> PreGame: cool, just wondering if *I* was doing something wrong :-)
Jun 25 23:25:18 <ProtossEX> how do i get commander
Jun 25 23:25:21 <ProtossEX> that looks awesome
Jun 25 23:25:44 <PreGame> cphelps: that app will save me from having to create it :) i was going to create it next
Jun 25 23:26:01 <PreGame> but it wont do us much good without root unless i can figure out this ipk install issue for the service
Jun 25 23:26:07 <cphelps> PreGame: you want me to mail it?
Jun 25 23:27:06 <Robi-> cphelps: , type id
Jun 25 23:27:16 <Robi-> what user is that shell running as
Jun 25 23:27:53 <PreGame> yea if you type whoami what does it say?
Jun 25 23:27:53 <cphelps> root
Jun 25 23:28:00 <PreGame> cool
Jun 25 23:28:27 <PreGame> probably because the service runs as root
Jun 25 23:28:38 <cphelps> yep
Jun 25 23:29:05 <cphelps> I will work tomorrow on putting this crap in a database and keeping track of previous commands and stuff
Jun 25 23:29:17 <PreGame> are you leaving?
Jun 25 23:29:28 <Robi-> cphelps: can't hook into .history ?
Jun 25 23:29:49 <cphelps> Robi-: maybe
Jun 25 23:29:52 <Robi-> cphelps: which service is that using ?
Jun 25 23:30:00 <cphelps> Robi-: PreGame's
Jun 25 23:30:41 <Robi-> so then that's how he'll have to run the installer so the postinstall works
Jun 25 23:30:48 <PreGame> aight i'm on my way home so if you are still on we will chat about getting this darn service to install
Jun 25 23:31:06 <PreGame> Robi-: You cant use the service to install the service
Jun 25 23:31:16 <PreGame> if you are installing the service that means you dont have it
Jun 25 23:32:06 <Robi-> ouch
Jun 25 23:32:30 <cphelps> Robi-: we're already doing things that require root privs, so there is just some other part missing
Jun 25 23:32:46 <Robi-> k
Jun 25 23:33:20 <PreGame> i wonder if the email package setup doesn't look for preinst and postinst
Jun 25 23:34:07 <cphelps> PreGame: we'll most likely never know that one
Jun 25 23:35:45 <seigex> hi
Jun 25 23:36:03 <Robi-> does the email processing part run as root too
Jun 25 23:36:42 <cphelps> Has anyone watched the dbus to see what actually gets called?
Jun 25 23:36:55 <tharris> any word on a new update?
Jun 25 23:37:13 <PreGame> i'm headed home now guys, i will be on in a few minutes
Jun 25 23:37:24 <tharris> pregame each package i have written doesnt execute preinst
Jun 25 23:37:27 <cphelps> tharris: we have downloading in the browser, isn't that enough for you?
Jun 25 23:37:29 <tharris> or post
Jun 25 23:37:44 <tictac> ill have the vibration issue done later tonight with a write up either late or early tomorrow
Jun 25 23:37:47 <tharris> sorry i must hav emissed that one, just got home =p
Jun 25 23:38:30 <tharris> grats on browser hack, now curious =p
Jun 25 23:38:32 <cphelps> tharris: I just wrote a command line app for PreGame's service
Jun 25 23:38:53 <cphelps> tharris: so yes, there is news - lots of updates - just not from palm
Jun 25 23:39:01 <tharris> fine by me
Jun 25 23:39:22 <cphelps> and with that proclimation, I shall adjourn
Jun 25 23:39:33 <Technobabble> grrr
Jun 25 23:39:37 <rwhitby> doh - just missed him
Jun 25 23:39:38 <Technobabble> i wanted to ask him if it was up yet
Jun 25 23:39:46 <rwhitby> is the source for commander anywhere?
Jun 25 23:40:10 <seigex> browser hack?
Jun 25 23:41:11 <rwhitby> PreGame: where's the source for your service and the scripts that you use to create the ipkg?  I can take a look at them to see if I can see why it won't install ...
Jun 25 23:42:19 <tharris> rwhitby: we get any confirmation whether preinst or postinst wont run? or is it just my apps
Jun 25 23:42:44 <rwhitby> when I discussed the email installation vector with nicoya (from Palm) in #webos, we seemed to think that they were not run.
Jun 25 23:42:52 <rwhitby> the optware ipkg-opt definitely runs them
Jun 25 23:42:59 <rwhitby> s/we/he/
Jun 25 23:43:26 <tharris> yeah, that was why i tried it that way
Jun 25 23:43:29 <tharris> but never got it hehe
Jun 25 23:44:00 <tharris> hence why ipk rooter never finished
Jun 25 23:44:09 <rwhitby> ipkg-opt definitely runs them
Jun 25 23:44:15 <tharris> yeah
Jun 25 23:44:21 <rwhitby> palm's ipkg may or may not
Jun 25 23:44:31 <tharris> didnt for me, but i wanted to see if it was me or not
Jun 25 23:44:36 <tharris> bbiab food/shower
Jun 25 23:44:42 <rwhitby> which didn't?
Jun 25 23:44:49 <rwhitby> palm's ipkg or ipkg-opt?
Jun 25 23:45:05 <tharris> palms
Jun 25 23:45:27 <rwhitby> ok, I'll take a look at their ipkg patches ...
Jun 25 23:47:49 <rwhitby> nope, nothing in their ipkg patches which prevents postinst running
Jun 25 23:48:25 <cpuguy06> hey all
Jun 25 23:48:54 <xandrake_> hey there cpu
Jun 25 23:48:58 <cpuguy06> whats up?
Jun 25 23:49:24 <xandrake_> Not a whole lot. Trying to get some weird security *nix distro on my new eeepc.  :)
Jun 25 23:49:42 <cpuguy06> oooh eeepc
Jun 25 23:49:45 <cpuguy06> love those things
Jun 25 23:50:08 <bclancy> so commander is not available for testing yet either (in addition to spaz)?
Jun 25 23:50:15 <xandrake_> Yea, just picked it up last week. I love it so far....well everything aside from the shotty resolution.
Jun 25 23:50:21 <cpuguy06> yea
Jun 25 23:50:24 <Technobabble> xandrake_, which distro
Jun 25 23:50:26 <cpuguy06> 1024x800 FTF
Jun 25 23:50:36 <xandrake_> backtrack
Jun 25 23:50:38 <cpuguy06> or is it 600?
Jun 25 23:50:53 <rwhitby> bclancy: commander seems to be screenshot-ware at the moment :-(
Jun 25 23:50:55 <Technobabble> mine's a 701, it's got a 800x600 resolution
Jun 25 23:51:24 * rwhitby doesn't understand why people don't start developing these things in a public repo from the start ...
Jun 25 23:51:30 <bclancy> ok, just wanted to be sure I didn't miss anything - does anyone have anything ready for testing?
Jun 25 23:51:48 <cpuguy06> anyone successfully bypassed their pre?
Jun 25 23:51:58 <xandrake_> I forget the resolution...it sucks though
Jun 25 23:52:01 <cpuguy06> or "jailbreak" as I have seen people call it?
Jun 25 23:52:04 <cpuguy06> i asked here yesterday
Jun 25 23:52:07 <mdklein> did opensource.palm.com always have the 1.0.1 and 1.0.2 distinct patchset up? I just remember 1 set of patches
Jun 25 23:52:29 <cpuguy06> still stuck, even after pEEf tellin me failing at 14% is a result of not having the most current version of JRE
Jun 25 23:52:58 <xandrake_> 1024 x 600
Jun 25 23:53:13 <tictac> cpuguy06: read the topic.
Jun 25 23:53:44 <cpuguy06> ah...so basically go elsewhere for help
Jun 25 23:53:48 <cpuguy06> thanks anyways guys
Jun 25 23:54:03 <xandrake_> Gonna run and play some CS. I need a break. See y'all in a bit.
Jun 25 23:54:09 * xandrake_ bbiab
Jun 25 23:54:19 <cpuguy06> or am i misinterpreting the topic?
Jun 25 23:54:37 <tmzt> cpuguy06: bypass what?
Jun 25 23:54:55 <cpuguy06> the initial sprint activation on the pre
Jun 25 23:55:13 <tictac> cpuguy06: read the wiki. there is no need to "jail break" the pre. use the rooting instructions listed on the wiki.
Jun 25 23:55:25 <rwhitby> cpuguy06: hang on
Jun 25 23:55:40 <tmzt> there is one method discovered by someone else using the flash tool that comes with the doctor
Jun 25 23:55:40 <tictac> haha cs.
Jun 25 23:55:46 <tmzt> that doesn't need dev mode
Jun 25 23:55:48 <cpuguy06> when I said "jail breaK" i meant getting past the sprint activation...my mistake i was under the impression thats what it was commonly being called now
Jun 25 23:55:59 <cpuguy06> i love cs
Jun 25 23:56:00 <rwhitby> cpuguy06: you've got a pre from somewhere other than Sprint (hence have not signed a Sprint TOS agreement), and you want to activate it to use it as a PDA only?
Jun 25 23:56:12 <rwhitby> is that the scenario?
Jun 25 23:56:20 <tictac> im too wrapped up in studies/tinkering than to play games anymore. sucks because im only 25.
Jun 25 23:56:21 <cpuguy06> kinda
Jun 25 23:56:25 <cpuguy06> bought on ebay
Jun 25 23:56:35 <cpuguy06> want to get past so I can load the alltel prl and alltel data settings and use on alltel
Jun 25 23:56:50 <tictac> the wiki explains how to bypass activation.
Jun 25 23:56:58 <cpuguy06> and it doesn't work
Jun 25 23:57:09 <rwhitby> cpuguy06: ok, we can't help you here unfortunately, until the Palm/Sprint exclusitivy period finishes.
Jun 25 23:57:11 <cpuguy06> i have come across numerous people all getting stuck at 14% while flashing
Jun 25 23:57:22 <rwhitby> If you were just going to use it as a PDA, there's instructions on the wiki.
Jun 25 23:57:25 <cpuguy06> ok, so then say I want to use it just as a pda
Jun 25 23:57:35 <cpuguy06> because I dont want to pay the data charges
Jun 25 23:57:39 * tictac shrugs as he is a very avid sprint customer
Jun 25 23:57:57 <rwhitby> cpuguy06: we know nothing more than what is on the wiki
Jun 25 23:58:01 <cpuguy06> sprint has horrible reception here and I would just like to use the pda features on it
Jun 25 23:58:08 <cpuguy06> ok, has anyone here actually done it?
Jun 25 23:58:20 <cpuguy06> ...followed the procedures on the wiki?
Jun 25 23:58:21 <rwhitby> cpuguy06: check the wiki history, and match nicks
Jun 25 23:58:56 * tictac goes back to studying for the written -- only 8 days left.
Jun 25 23:59:10 <cpuguy06> alright...thanks guys
Jun 25 23:59:12 <rwhitby> does anyone know an email address for cphelps?
Jun 25 23:59:18 <tictac> nope
Jun 25 23:59:26 <rwhitby> I have an *urgent* message for him that he will want to get as soon as possible.
Jun 25 23:59:49 <tictac> heh i tried to send you a message over the wiki, like a week ago.
Jun 26 00:00:03 <tictac> its moot now though.
Jun 26 00:00:08 <cpuguy06> alright, since i'm a bit of a linux n00b...anyone know how to use diff on windows xp?
Jun 26 00:00:39 <rwhitby> tictac: does the wiki mail notifications?  if it didn't mail me, I probably haven't seen it.  what was the topic?
Jun 26 00:00:53 <rwhitby> cpuguy06: google windiff
Jun 26 00:01:11 <cpuguy06> alrighty..thanks again rwhitby
Jun 26 00:01:15 <tictac> it was concerning novaproxy. im not sure. ive never received messages on wikidot
Jun 26 00:01:37 <cpuguy06> and one more question...has anyone rooted the phone without bypassing sprint's activation?
Jun 26 00:01:59 <tictac> cpuguy06: most all of us used the sprint activation.
Jun 26 00:02:06 <cpuguy06> mmkay
Jun 26 00:02:07 <tictac> s/most/almost/
Jun 26 00:02:18 <bclancy> I sent an email to funkatron about his spaz ipkg not opening - (Hoping he'll see the email on his Pre and give us a fix)
Jun 26 00:02:41 <tictac> no matter what activation is installed (sprint,att,etc) the phone rooting methods will still work the same.
Jun 26 00:02:55 <tictac> (if att, etc had activation installers for the pre i mean)
Jun 26 00:03:01 <cpuguy06> yea
Jun 26 00:03:13 <tictac> anyways, im going to study for my ccie. bbl.
Jun 26 00:03:17 <cpuguy06> so the pre can be rooted BEFORE the activation is completed
Jun 26 00:03:20 <cpuguy06> ok thanks tictac
Jun 26 00:03:49 <EvanDotPro> ahhh... finally a group of people who are talking about something unrelated to..... the news story....
Jun 26 00:04:12 <cpuguy06> <kidding>OMG MICHAEL JACKSONS DEAD!!!????? OH NOES!!!</kidding>
Jun 26 00:04:22 * EvanDotPro sighs
Jun 26 00:04:37 <EvanDotPro> lol
Jun 26 00:04:38 <PullingJ> from what i remember, the activation bypass involved flashing webdoctor with a modified activation screen where there is an option to enable wifi on the emergency call button, so no rooting before activation
Jun 26 00:04:47 <cpuguy06> check everyone's facebook status and thats all i get...what did he ever do besides molest little boys and sing mediocre 80s & 90s music?
Jun 26 00:05:07 <bclancy> I'm sure he'll come back (thriller sytle) and be another Elvis ;-)
Jun 26 00:05:32 <cpuguy06> pulling...thats what I thought from my research....modifying webdoctor works BUT it won't reflash to my phone
Jun 26 00:05:56 <cpuguy06> stops at 14% and says failed to reset your phone
Jun 26 00:06:19 <tharris> cpuguy =  the truth
Jun 26 00:07:10 <bclancy> maybe they do some sort of checksum of the image (or periodic checksums) to make sure the image was not modified
Jun 26 00:07:16 <rwhitby> they do
Jun 26 00:07:30 <bclancy> that explains that
Jun 26 00:07:30 <cpuguy06> yea thats what i was thinking
Jun 26 00:07:34 <cpuguy06> i did edit the MD5 sums
Jun 26 00:07:38 <rwhitby> hopefully the procedure handles that.
Jun 26 00:07:45 <Rick__> rwhitby   I have an email for Chris Phelps
Jun 26 00:07:58 <rwhitby> Rick__: please /msg it to me
Jun 26 00:08:10 <cpuguy06> BUT, one of the last steps is to modify the manifest file which has a buncha SHA lines in it...i don't know if i am to remove all of the SHA lines?
Jun 26 00:08:31 <cpuguy06> thats where the wiki isn't clear
Jun 26 00:08:37 <cpuguy06> and where I think my problems are coming from
Jun 26 00:08:53 <cphelps> Rick__: did you get the mail?
Jun 26 00:10:07 <cpuguy06> alright i'm out thanks again for everyones' help
Jun 26 00:10:32 <Rick__> i did
Jun 26 00:10:38 <Rick__> just got to sit down
Jun 26 00:10:53 <Rick__> also,  rwhitby has an urgent message for you cphelps
Jun 26 00:12:43 <rwhitby> Rick__: thx - we're now in contact
Jun 26 00:13:12 <gkatsev> hey, ive installed ajaxPHPterm and dropbear, can i ssh from my phone out to whatever server i want? cuz when i try running ssh it says command not found'
Jun 26 00:13:31 <PreGame> well crap... how the heck are we gonna install the java service then if postinst doesn't work
Jun 26 00:13:50 <PreGame> it wants to install the files into /var
Jun 26 00:14:07 <Rick__> that's  uh,   unfortunate
Jun 26 00:14:26 <Rick__> there-has- to be a way to instll services...  app store does it
Jun 26 00:14:38 <PreGame> what services has appstore installed?
Jun 26 00:15:01 <Robi-> its probably another special call
Jun 26 00:15:06 <PreGame> and the appstore installer probably executes pre and post inst but i think since the email install is a bug it doesn't work fully
Jun 26 00:15:06 <Rick__> ok ok,  I guessed.   I could have been wrong.
Jun 26 00:15:07 <Rick__> ooops
Jun 26 00:16:28 <tharris> pregame i got neither to work, trying to find another way,  (been trying lol)
Jun 26 00:18:07 <tharris> : /tmp/webkit-clipboard is funny, you can echo w/e u want to that and paste into phone....
Jun 26 00:18:29 <tharris> seems to have a size limit
Jun 26 00:19:00 <tmzt> cool
Jun 26 00:19:20 <Robi-> could be evil ;]
Jun 26 00:19:38 <destinal> cool, managed to MITM / trace the conversation with the patch service that is the first thing the updater talks to
Jun 26 00:20:13 <tharris> grats man
Jun 26 00:20:33 <tharris> setup arp spoof between u and phone
Jun 26 00:20:41 <destinal> nah
Jun 26 00:21:21 <destinal> although that would work
Jun 26 00:21:26 <destinal> I just added an entry to hosts file
Jun 26 00:22:07 <destinal> then used two instances of stunnel, one inbound from the phone, and forwarding to the other, which is outbound to the web service.
Jun 26 00:22:57 <destinal> I had to generate a CA cert and load it on the phone and use it to sign a cert for the server stunnel
Jun 26 00:23:06 <rwhitby> destinal: nice work.
Jun 26 00:23:20 <tharris> nice work dest
Jun 26 00:23:47 <destinal> thanks.  I'd post the trace but it's got a lot of uniquely identifying info at the moment
Jun 26 00:25:14 <destinal> I'll sanitize it and then write it all up.  the long and short of it is it finds out which versions of what packages you need to update and passes you urls to palms CDN server (on akamai) to download them
Jun 26 00:25:35 <destinal> a lot of SyncML which I'm not familiar with really
Jun 26 00:25:48 <destinal> is it a standard or custom format?
Jun 26 00:26:21 <bclancy> good work destinal
Jun 26 00:27:29 <destinal> bclancy: thx
Jun 26 00:27:38 <destinal> any recommendations for paste service?
Jun 26 00:27:42 <tharris> dest can u redirect at all?
Jun 26 00:27:54 <rwhitby> destinal: /topic
Jun 26 00:28:06 <helfire> does anyone have cron working while the phone is sleeping? i want to do some gps tracking but my scripts wont run when the screen is off
Jun 26 00:30:09 <destinal> interestingly it uses "token" (not sure what), "deviceID" (MEID:xxxxx), "email", and "carrier" to authenticate
Jun 26 00:30:32 <PreGame> lets try and find a way around palm's stupidness and find a way to get this service installed.
Jun 26 00:30:39 <PreGame> all it wants to do is install into the /var directory
Jun 26 00:31:41 <destinal> tharris: haven't tried redirect but  I could alter either request or response so it would seem redundant.  why?
Jun 26 00:32:08 <tharris> think mitm to download bad ipks
Jun 26 00:32:10 <rwhitby> destinal: a way to include third-party updates in the response?
Jun 26 00:33:04 <destinal> well you could just pass a URL to a third party update in the response, I imagine.  haven't tried yet.  tonight I'll try to write up a walkthrough on how to do all this so you guys can play too :)
Jun 26 00:33:36 <rwhitby> msg destinal ping
Jun 26 00:33:42 <rwhitby> oops
Jun 26 00:33:49 <destinal> I figure it would be fairly straightforward to create our own update server.
Jun 26 00:34:29 <branded> hey all... any idea where i can find some real docs on the api... or do we have to wait until the sdk is released?
Jun 26 00:34:31 <destinal> well, more or less straightforward depending on how functional you want it :)
Jun 26 00:34:45 <PreGame> anyone know of a dbus that will install applications remotely?
Jun 26 00:35:04 <rwhitby> branded: we're all waiting
Jun 26 00:35:19 <blau-mikedg> is the sdk rolling out yet?
Jun 26 00:35:19 <branded> aight... i'm trying to plan out and start on a last.fm app
Jun 26 00:35:22 <rwhitby> branded: but there's the o'reilly rough cuts book
Jun 26 00:35:43 <rwhitby> branded: and some guys here (e.g. EvanDotPro) seem to have some good app skills.
Jun 26 00:35:51 <rwhitby> and funkatron too of course
Jun 26 00:35:53 <branded> cool cool
Jun 26 00:36:13 <rwhitby> branded: we're starting a repo at http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications
Jun 26 00:36:17 <branded> well... i'm awaiting my pre from telesales... i guess i can start deving any time thoygh'
Jun 26 00:36:23 <rwhitby> (for open source apps)
Jun 26 00:37:02 <branded> yea cool man
Jun 26 00:37:04 <EvanDotPro> branded: what rwhitby said.. i'd be willing to bet last.fm is already in on the sdk and working on one though..
Jun 26 00:37:25 <branded> true true... i hope so
Jun 26 00:37:31 <branded> i'm not sure what else I'd dev :D
Jun 26 00:37:35 <rwhitby> EvanDotPro: maybe branded can do better :-)
Jun 26 00:37:41 <branded> hell yea!
Jun 26 00:37:46 <branded> hah
Jun 26 00:37:57 <EvanDotPro> rwhitby: haha true, true... just saying :)
Jun 26 00:38:01 <Robi-> anyone have an alternate link for the flashlight app, i dont have a forum acct
Jun 26 00:38:20 <PreGame> palm has REALLY dropped he ball on these updates as well as adding more dev's to the SDK like they said
Jun 26 00:38:37 <branded> i'm sure they're just sitting and watching
Jun 26 00:38:42 <PreGame> of course
Jun 26 00:38:43 <branded> i'm sure you're actually the CTO of palm
Jun 26 00:38:49 <PreGame> i hope they choke and die
Jun 26 00:38:53 <branded> ahh haha
Jun 26 00:39:27 <PreGame> they really screwed over the people that are WANTING to develop and learn the system
Jun 26 00:39:38 <branded> well.. i think it's coming down the lines
Jun 26 00:39:40 <branded> line
Jun 26 00:39:52 <EvanDotPro> PreGame: well, that's the bridge we're trying to gap with putting out how-to's on the wiki and stuff.
Jun 26 00:40:15 <EvanDotPro> once i get around to updating the wiki page i started, i should have enough info to get everyone started building whatever mojo apps they want.
Jun 26 00:40:26 <PreGame> i'm pissed i hit a brick wall from developing because they don't allow the install of ipk's outside of the /var
Jun 26 00:40:42 <tharris> can u right a sym link?
Jun 26 00:40:46 <tharris> and drop into other directory
Jun 26 00:40:51 <rwhitby> PreGame: can't you install it using ipkg-opt?
Jun 26 00:41:09 <PreGame> rwhitby: the whole point of the ipk is to not require root
Jun 26 00:41:16 <EvanDotPro> tharris: interesting idea.. wonder if anyone has tried that.
Jun 26 00:41:46 <EvanDotPro> tharris: one of those "too good to be true things"... it couldn't work just because it would be too nice if it did.
Jun 26 00:42:25 <Robi-> PreGame: can you do some logging of the postinstall process and see what user it's trying to run as?
Jun 26 00:42:26 <rwhitby> PreGame: I think it's a good thing that the email installation vector doesn't run postinst for example.
Jun 26 00:42:56 <PreGame> it really limits the stuff it can do
Jun 26 00:42:56 <tharris> i agree with rw, but  i wanted to have some fun
Jun 26 00:43:03 <PreGame> it limits you to crappy web applications only
Jun 26 00:43:15 <tharris> for what it was intended =p
Jun 26 00:43:28 <rwhitby> PreGame: we just add the service to the rooting instructions, and then continue as if nothing happened ...
Jun 26 00:43:35 <PreGame> i dont want a phone that just does web applications
Jun 26 00:43:53 <PreGame> lol rwhitby
Jun 26 00:44:07 <PreGame> the demand for the flashlight app for people that haven't rooted their device is pretty high
Jun 26 00:44:11 <branded> is there a SIP client native?
Jun 26 00:44:39 <rwhitby> PreGame: yeah, but popular demand by users shouldn't outweight proper application security.
Jun 26 00:44:44 <rwhitby> (imho)
Jun 26 00:45:29 <tharris> i have to know, rw do you work as an admin or security admin?
Jun 26 00:45:44 <PreGame> i agree but palm needs to stop being douche bags and release a way for the public to install homebrew applications and stop being dictator nazi's on when and who can do it
Jun 26 00:45:44 <rwhitby> tharris: CTO
Jun 26 00:45:58 <tharris> big or small company?
Jun 26 00:46:07 <rwhitby> small, but was in big companies before
Jun 26 00:46:16 <tmzt> can a web application do anything special in dev mode?
Jun 26 00:46:23 <PreGame> nope
Jun 26 00:46:42 <PreGame> the phones application capabilities right now suck without rooting the phone
Jun 26 00:47:11 <EvanDotPro> PreGame: if we bridged that gap between mojo and terminal.... that would be a huge breakthrough.
Jun 26 00:47:20 <PreGame> yep
Jun 26 00:47:32 <tharris> yeah
Jun 26 00:47:36 <EvanDotPro> (browser plugin or dbus daemon)
Jun 26 00:47:51 <rwhitby> EvanDotPro: yeah, but it has to be done right.
Jun 26 00:47:51 <PreGame> but not gonna happen without rooting the phone or until palm pulls their head out of each others asses and release something
Jun 26 00:48:14 <EvanDotPro> rwhitby: agreed... but i don't think any of us are patient enough to keep waiting, lol.
Jun 26 00:48:20 <PreGame> i have alot of applications in the work for backend stuff but i'm not going to continue them if they cannot be installed without rooting
Jun 26 00:48:29 <rwhitby> PreGame: why not?
Jun 26 00:48:52 <bclancy> what if we develop a small set of utilities that are installed on a rooted phone, then we all just use that framework?
Jun 26 00:49:02 <rwhitby> bclancy: that's the current plan.
Jun 26 00:49:33 <EvanDotPro> bclancy: yeah, that's at least what i was hoping for... then worry about how to make it work on non-rooted later.
Jun 26 00:49:34 <rwhitby> eventually, there'll be a way for an informed user to easily install that framework.  until then, they just have to root the phone first.
Jun 26 00:49:35 <tmzt> the problem with calling it "rooted" is it implies we've weekened the security permentantly
Jun 26 00:50:05 <rwhitby> tmzt: yeah, I went through and changed "backdoor access" to "secure ssh access" on the wiki ...
Jun 26 00:50:07 <EvanDotPro> tmzt: yeah, i've wondered about the term "rooted", too.. but it's already been coined, unfortunately.
Jun 26 00:50:15 <PreGame> i'm so pissed at palms lack of interacting with the users
Jun 26 00:50:24 <Robi-> s/rooted/enabled root access/%g
Jun 26 00:50:26 <bclancy> we could even have Linux installfests where peoples pre's are rooted and the framework installed
Jun 26 00:50:30 <tmzt> if we added a fixed set of additional ipc services
Jun 26 00:50:34 <EvanDotPro> PreGame: take a deep breath, lol
Jun 26 00:50:55 <PreGame> before the pre was released i was addamit that it would beat the iphone now i know for a fact it wont
Jun 26 00:51:15 <bclancy> anything I can to to help test, just let me know.  (www.agiletester.net)
Jun 26 00:51:18 <PreGame> i want to walk up to the CEO of palm and flick him right in the nut sack
Jun 26 00:52:04 <bclancy> PreGame:  Maybe you can make a card with him and flick it off all night long!  :-)
Jun 26 00:52:09 <cpuguy06> sup everyone again
Jun 26 00:52:11 <destinal> lol
Jun 26 00:52:14 <tmzt> bclancy: you mean with a framework?
Jun 26 00:52:16 <xandrake_> wb cpu
Jun 26 00:52:19 <cpuguy06> thx
Jun 26 00:52:22 <PreGame> i wondering if packaging the data.tar.gz with ../path/to/service will trick the ipk installer to get out of /var
Jun 26 00:52:28 <destinal> PreGame: that bad?
Jun 26 00:52:36 <cpuguy06> soo..aparently i'm retarded and can't figure out how to use windiff
Jun 26 00:52:36 <bdumm> bclancy, lol
Jun 26 00:52:43 <PreGame> bclancy: YOU ARE A GENIOUS
Jun 26 00:52:48 <tmzt> bclancy: if you can get stuff working on qemu - for this limited purpose- that would be interesting
Jun 26 00:52:49 <bclancy> yes, I guess they have already thought of the framework idea
Jun 26 00:52:58 <PreGame> the first home brew palm game will be click the nuts off the palm CEO
Jun 26 00:53:01 <tmzt> we can always test the ipkg stuff without webos code can't we?
Jun 26 00:53:11 <bclancy> sort of like xbill!
Jun 26 00:53:19 <tharris> hey dest, you know the actual website for the help app in teh phone since u cna redirect traffic
Jun 26 00:53:26 <Robi-> tmzt: yes sorta
Jun 26 00:53:28 <cpuguy06> copied the text from the wiki to a new file called 1.js...opened that file and windiffed it to app-service.js as instructed and it comes up and says 1.js is newer but then i'm not sure how to combine the two
Jun 26 00:53:45 <destinal> PreGame: so the issue is that postinst scripts aren't running in clicked ipk links from email?
Jun 26 00:53:54 <PreGame> destinal: correct
Jun 26 00:54:07 <tharris> or preinst scripts
Jun 26 00:54:08 <bclancy> tmzt, by dev skills are rusty - willing to test and learn enough to get back in the game
Jun 26 00:54:12 <PreGame> so the files get installed to the /var directory and the postinst cant run to move them to /usr/lib/luna/java
Jun 26 00:54:34 <rwhitby> destinal: nicoya in #webos said that palm intentionally don't run those scripts.  ipkg-opt definitely does run them.
Jun 26 00:54:43 <destinal> aha
Jun 26 00:54:47 <destinal> that makes sense
Jun 26 00:55:09 <destinal> well, what about just writing to an upstart file
Jun 26 00:55:10 <rwhitby> and I agree with Palm that running scripts as root from email clicks is bad news
Jun 26 00:55:31 <tharris> and i concur
Jun 26 00:55:51 <destinal> it should give you the same privs as postinst assuming that the installer lets you write there
Jun 26 00:56:33 <rwhitby> destinal: it seems (dunno if this is confirmed) that Palms installer only allows files under /var
Jun 26 00:56:34 <bclancy> we need to have a trusted server and a trusted cert that webos can autnenticate (or that's what I'd prefer as long as Palm cooperates)
Jun 26 00:56:54 <Kaerey> ok who knows the soundClass: call to play a media file when a button is pressed?
Jun 26 00:56:56 <destinal> rwhitby: but aren't apps in /usr?
Jun 26 00:57:14 <Kaerey> destinal: Default apps are, 3rd party apps are in /var/usr
Jun 26 00:57:17 <destinal> ah
Jun 26 00:57:27 <rwhitby> bclancy: who is going to be responsible when the first spambot app gets signed with that "trusted" cert?
Jun 26 00:57:28 <bclancy> on a non rooted pre, I think only /var is mounted writablke, right?
Jun 26 00:57:37 <rwhitby> bclancy: yep
Jun 26 00:57:45 <rwhitby> and tmp, etc of course
Jun 26 00:57:57 <destinal> so there may be significantly more security in place than I thought
Jun 26 00:57:59 <rwhitby> (not /etc, "et cetera")
Jun 26 00:58:22 <Kaerey> funatron what was your email again?
Jun 26 00:58:41 <bclancy> that's why I'm thinking we might have to root in an install framework of our own.
Jun 26 00:58:43 <destinal> so services can't live in /var, I take it?
Jun 26 00:58:43 <funkatron> for spaz stuff, spaz@funkatron.com
Jun 26 00:58:48 <EvanDotPro> bclancy: i think getting a trusted server / cert set up with Palm would be a wonderful route to take if we could pull that off...
Jun 26 00:59:12 <PreGame> destinal: i believe the OS looks for the services in /usr/lib/luna/java
Jun 26 00:59:20 <rwhitby> EvanDotPro: who's going to be the certifier of apps signed with that cert?
Jun 26 00:59:30 <PreGame> ME
Jun 26 00:59:34 <EvanDotPro> NO ME.
Jun 26 00:59:43 <PreGame> NO ME
Jun 26 00:59:47 <xandrake_> NOT ME.
Jun 26 00:59:49 <xandrake_> ;)
Jun 26 00:59:49 <PreGame> !
Jun 26 00:59:51 <rwhitby> PreGame: then only nuts-flicking apps will get through
Jun 26 00:59:52 <PreGame> lol
Jun 26 00:59:56 <EvanDotPro> rwhitby: seriously, i don't know... that would be an issue... which we just illustrated, lol.
Jun 26 01:00:00 <PreGame> no... i will approve ALL apps
Jun 26 01:00:08 <PreGame> :P
Jun 26 01:00:14 <destinal> heh, so the issue with my method of MITM'ing the installer is that you can't do it without rooting first at this point (you have to add your ca cert to /etc/ssl/certs
Jun 26 01:00:24 <EvanDotPro> we could set up a board review process...
Jun 26 01:00:39 <tmzt> I think it's easier to say it's an omap3 computer, if you want to continue using webos there's a process, if you want something else whatever applies for that system applies
Jun 26 01:00:41 <EvanDotPro> X% votes, with X votes minimum == app gets in....
Jun 26 01:00:50 <PreGame> i think you guys are getting in over your head.
Jun 26 01:00:56 <xandrake_> ^^ Aye
Jun 26 01:00:57 <PreGame> palm isnt going to give us a cert
Jun 26 01:01:04 <PreGame> they are douche bags
Jun 26 01:01:09 <PreGame> they are like sprint
Jun 26 01:01:15 <EvanDotPro> PreGame: like i said, "if we could pull that off"
Jun 26 01:01:17 <rwhitby> PreGame: such anger ....
Jun 26 01:01:20 <PreGame> except sprint gives you an airave if you complain
Jun 26 01:01:21 <bclancy> maybe we could have a team of testers and the apps get a higher vote (confidence) count as more certified testers vouch for them.
Jun 26 01:01:31 <tharris> they might not be as big as douche bags as over driven personnel
Jun 26 01:01:36 <destinal> PreGame: actually palm is fairly cool so far IMO
Jun 26 01:01:39 <rwhitby> PreGame: remember, it's all just 1's and 0's.  it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things ...
Jun 26 01:01:43 <PreGame> i didn't have this anger until today when i found we have to root the pre to install a java service
Jun 26 01:01:52 <tmzt> PreGame: think about it this way, Palm is the one who released it with dev mode enabled
Jun 26 01:02:05 <PreGame> no they didn't
Jun 26 01:02:09 <tmzt> they got a lot of good will from the more informed members of the community
Jun 26 01:02:10 <PreGame> you had to enable it
Jun 26 01:02:15 <tharris> the people i have spoken to are quire cool
Jun 26 01:02:21 <tharris> quite*
Jun 26 01:02:31 <destinal> PreGame: compare pre to the iphone and it's night and day
Jun 26 01:02:36 <Robi-> i'm hoping some make it to the meetup tonight in mtn view
Jun 26 01:02:41 <PreGame> i agree iPhone > Pre
Jun 26 01:02:45 <destinal> err day and night
Jun 26 01:02:57 <tmzt> that wold be a long/expensive plane ride unfortunately
Jun 26 01:02:59 <destinal> apple is way more controlling to their users
Jun 26 01:03:05 <rwhitby> tmzt: not as long as mine
Jun 26 01:03:13 <tmzt> yeah, I was just going to say that
Jun 26 01:03:40 <PreGame> i just feel palm is lying about opening the sdk to 1,000 users
Jun 26 01:03:49 <tharris> does anyone know the web address that the internal "help" app uses?
Jun 26 01:03:52 <xandrake_> No. They're not.
Jun 26 01:03:57 <rwhitby> PreGame: anyway, can you put your service source code in a repo somewhere, so that we can do a normal ipkg-opt install for it and get on with things that then use it (like commander) ?
Jun 26 01:04:05 <jblair> can some one please help i rooted my pre but dont know linux very well i added the roaming hack i found precentral it was in a .sp for i am trying to do the add delete pages but am having trouble using vi how do i utilize the patch file
Jun 26 01:04:16 <Rick__> Pregame,  I know of four people who got sdk this week.
Jun 26 01:04:17 <PreGame> my company applied for sdk to create an application that is in use by thousands of students on the iphone and still nothing
Jun 26 01:04:19 <bclancy> Who among this group is capable of architecting an install framework for the pre?  (Have you all organized a group of you who can work together on such a task>)
Jun 26 01:04:34 <tmzt> we also already know how to make an application for a windows/osx host to handle most of the steps, linux to follow
Jun 26 01:04:40 <rwhitby> bclancy: the group is here.
Jun 26 01:04:55 <Rick__> PreGame, my company has been a palm certified developer since 1997.  Those are not the criteria they're using at this time.
Jun 26 01:04:55 <EvanDotPro> bclancy: yeah, we have a decent group.. all of us with different talents.
Jun 26 01:05:12 <tmzt> this isn't pdc, that's for sure
Jun 26 01:05:32 <tmzt> pavilion, whatever it was called
Jun 26 01:05:39 <rwhitby> bclancy: I've done this type of stuff for the Linksys NSLU2 over the last four years.  http://www.nslu2-linux.org/presentation.pdf
Jun 26 01:06:10 <bclancy> OK, I'm between jobs right now so I can help test things out or do any "legwork'/rsearch" tasks that are needed
Jun 26 01:06:16 <Rick__> what was funkatron's git address again?
Jun 26 01:06:33 <PreGame> bclancy: find a way to install applications from email into a directory other than /var
Jun 26 01:07:07 <Rick__> PreGame...  email ______Has___ to be closed.  We need a -different- way to install apps.
Jun 26 01:07:09 <xandrake_> git@funkatron.com?
Jun 26 01:07:27 <rwhitby> Rick_: github/funkatron I think
Jun 26 01:07:31 <PreGame> Rick_: there is a bug somewhere i know it
Jun 26 01:07:32 <EvanDotPro> Rick_++
Jun 26 01:07:34 <rwhitby> we should link it on the wiki
Jun 26 01:07:44 <PreGame> you aren't supposed to be able to install apps via email anyways yet you can
Jun 26 01:08:00 <rwhitby> yep, and it will be closed in a OTA coming to you soon
Jun 26 01:08:06 <EvanDotPro> PreGame: we don't want to find and leverage a bug to install apps...
Jun 26 01:08:21 <PreGame> yep: which is why i want to find a way to get the service installed before then
Jun 26 01:08:48 <rwhitby> PreGame: so only the people who install your service before they fix the bug get to play?
Jun 26 01:08:50 <PreGame> EvanDotPro: why not? we already did with the email thing
Jun 26 01:08:57 <EvanDotPro> PreGame: but then you just have the users that got in before the OTA bugfix.... kind of limiting...
Jun 26 01:09:12 <PreGame> meh ;-\ not my problem
Jun 26 01:09:16 <PreGame> well...
Jun 26 01:09:20 <PreGame> ok u guys are right
Jun 26 01:09:32 <EvanDotPro> PreGame: it is your issue if you are trying to reach a large market with you app.
Jun 26 01:09:41 <PreGame> i guess i should just create a package that can be installed with ipk install
Jun 26 01:10:17 <rwhitby> PreGame: the more important thing we should be talking about is what are the features of this service, and how will we use it
Jun 26 01:10:26 <tharris> well here is what i say, people like ur flashlight app ( i do myself) and if people reallly want it they will root for it.  So i say do as needed
Jun 26 01:10:33 <rwhitby> a way to install it non-root will eventually be found (or created)
Jun 26 01:10:50 <EvanDotPro> I really think working with Palm is going ot be our best bet at getting homebrew stuff exposed to the mass market... that's why this group appealed to me, with it's eagerness to stay on Palm's good side.
Jun 26 01:11:00 <PreGame> well its basically so far a way to run commands on the phone for other applications
Jun 26 01:11:04 <tharris> much progress has been made, i know we can find a way
Jun 26 01:11:11 <EvanDotPro> Perhaps a group proposal to Palm.. formally submitted...
Jun 26 01:11:23 <rwhitby> PreGame: can you link to the source code please?
Jun 26 01:11:23 <PreGame> I STILL WANT TO FLICK THE CEO IN THE NUTSACK
Jun 26 01:11:28 <xandrake_> Wait...we're working with Palm or staying rogue?
Jun 26 01:11:39 <gkatsev> i installed dropbear on my phone so i can ssh into it, but i cant ssh from my phone using ajaxPHPterm, should i install openssh instead or is there some other way i can do that?
Jun 26 01:11:41 <tmzt> What is the difference between homebrew and applications anyway?
Jun 26 01:11:57 <PreGame> rwhitby: c:\source\prelease
Jun 26 01:11:58 <tmzt> if the store will allow free third-party applications
Jun 26 01:12:14 <xandrake_> One thing you all will have to remember is that Sprint might now be as friendly and whoreizon wil def. not be as understanding.
Jun 26 01:12:26 <tmzt> Verizon?
Jun 26 01:12:26 <rwhitby> xandrake_: the charter of this channel is in http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-internals-irc-channel-policy
Jun 26 01:12:27 <xandrake_> might *not*
Jun 26 01:12:35 <xandrake_> Thanks, Rod.
Jun 26 01:12:40 <PreGame> i have to say i have had nothing but good experience with Verizon and nothing but shit service from Sprint
Jun 26 01:12:45 <tmzt> I got a touch pro from the that runs ppc applications
Jun 26 01:12:50 <tmzt> and, uh, linux
Jun 26 01:12:55 <bclancy> I can't think of a better way to sell Pre's than:  "Hurry, buy your pre and install the homebrew installer (before it's too late)!"
Jun 26 01:13:10 <rwhitby> xandrake_: once an unlocked GSM phone is avaiable world-wide, Sprint and Verizon and any other US carrier monopoly no longer matters
Jun 26 01:13:12 <EvanDotPro> bclancy: hahaha
Jun 26 01:13:18 <tmzt> it will works as long as dev mode is there, right?
Jun 26 01:13:22 <PreGame> or "HURRY BUY HE PRE AND WAIT 5 MONTHS BEFORE YOU CAN INSTALL APPLICATIONS YOU WILL ACTUALLY WANT"
Jun 26 01:13:48 <bclancy> Seriously, if Palm sales go up, we might hae some leverage here.
Jun 26 01:14:04 <xandrake_> rwhitby: true, but won't hardware require different apps for CDMA vs GSM?
Jun 26 01:14:07 <tmzt> that hasn't worked for htc
Jun 26 01:14:07 <PreGame> do you work for palm?
Jun 26 01:14:11 <rwhitby> xandrake_: nope
Jun 26 01:14:19 <xandrake_> rwhitby: nice
Jun 26 01:14:22 <rwhitby> xandrake_: the current firmware has code in it for gsm already
Jun 26 01:14:32 <rwhitby> (app processor, not modem processor)
Jun 26 01:14:36 <PreGame> hey guys
Jun 26 01:14:40 <tmzt> we don't know what's connected to sbi though
Jun 26 01:14:45 <tmzt> if it supports gsm
Jun 26 01:14:53 <rwhitby> tmzt: sbi?
Jun 26 01:15:02 <rwhitby> tmzt: MSM sbi?
Jun 26 01:15:05 <jblair> can some one please help i rooted my pre but dont know linux very well i added the roaming hack i found precentral it was in a .sp for i am trying to do the add delete pages but am having trouble using vi how do i utilize the patch file... anyone
Jun 26 01:15:08 <tmzt> internal bus the rf chips are connected to
Jun 26 01:15:09 <tmzt> yes
Jun 26 01:15:31 <rwhitby> tmzt: right, as long as we stay about the radio API everything seems to be cross-platform
Jun 26 01:15:32 <tmzt> roaming/.sp?
Jun 26 01:15:47 <rwhitby> s/about/above/
Jun 26 01:15:48 <jblair> yeah the raming pach you you can select to roam
Jun 26 01:16:02 <rwhitby> the roaming patch doesn't go near msm sbi
Jun 26 01:16:04 <jblair> someone mde a .sp file that did it for me
Jun 26 01:16:13 <rwhitby> it just uses api's palm already has in there
Jun 26 01:16:14 <tmzt> actually the msm appears to be using some kind of mux on usb and maybe on uart as well
Jun 26 01:16:17 <tmzt> what is .sp?
Jun 26 01:16:20 <rwhitby> and those same API's have code for GSM too
Jun 26 01:16:42 <bclancy> jblai:  I wrote a short script explaining how to uninstall the roaming hack.  Posted in in the thread on precentral - let me find the url
Jun 26 01:16:48 <tmzt> the radio is supposed to be similar to gobi, but gobi registers a network devices
Jun 26 01:16:49 <Stik> I'm gonna be ill if I gotta watch Michael Jackson stuff for the next week... Farrah is much nicer to look at....
Jun 26 01:16:55 <rwhitby> tmzt: palm have separated the UI/Apps code and the Modem stuff very nicely in the architecture
Jun 26 01:17:05 <tmzt> at what level?
Jun 26 01:17:11 <jblair> sorry .sh
Jun 26 01:17:11 <rwhitby> linux kernel driver
Jun 26 01:17:21 <rwhitby> and webos services
Jun 26 01:17:21 <jblair> like i said i dont know linux
Jun 26 01:17:22 <tmzt> didn't see one, filename?
Jun 26 01:17:35 <tmzt> oh, that makes more sense
Jun 26 01:17:38 <tharris> has anyone found a way to open internal apps via a web link?
Jun 26 01:17:48 <rwhitby> tmzt: more webos services, but there is some stuff in the linux board setup code
Jun 26 01:17:54 <jblair> http://forums.precentral.net/hardware-use-trouble-shooting/186071-pre-roam-only-hack-3.html
Jun 26 01:17:59 <EvanDotPro> tharris: mailto: ? lol
Jun 26 01:18:03 <tharris> lol
Jun 26 01:18:13 <tmzt> rwhitby: you mean the modem stuff is javascript?
Jun 26 01:18:20 <tharris> like go to a website and clikc open memo
Jun 26 01:18:34 <rwhitby> tmzt: I mean the control of roaming is in javascript via lower level APIs in webOS services
Jun 26 01:18:40 <Rick__> jblair,  if you rooted and installed ipkg-opt the way you were told to, then it's simple.
Jun 26 01:18:42 <jblair> i like the roaming app i want an easy way to instyall the add delete page
Jun 26 01:18:50 <EvanDotPro> tharris: i know what you mean.. i just don't know if it exists or not. it wouldn't surprise me if it did though.
Jun 26 01:18:58 <Rick__> just run  /opt/bin/ipkg-opt install nano
Jun 26 01:19:01 <tmzt> rwhitby: ok
Jun 26 01:19:09 <Rick__> then instead of using vi to edit a file, edit the file with nano
Jun 26 01:19:10 <tmzt> I thought there were binary Sprint programs
Jun 26 01:19:14 <Rick__> nano -c filename
Jun 26 01:19:20 <rwhitby> tmzt: http://www.gadgettrail.com/pre/patch_roam.sh
Jun 26 01:19:22 <Rick__> much mucheasier for non linux geeks to use
Jun 26 01:19:28 <Technobabble> yeah
Jun 26 01:19:42 <Rick__> nano is totally self-explanitory
Jun 26 01:19:43 <rwhitby> tmzt: we're staying well clear of patching binaries related to the modem
Jun 26 01:19:45 <Rick__> no help needed
Jun 26 01:19:54 <rwhitby> Palm has politely said that area will cause problems
Jun 26 01:19:57 <tmzt> why would a .sh open with wine on ubuntu?
Jun 26 01:20:04 <tmzt> yeah, I know that
Jun 26 01:20:14 <rwhitby> jblair: read up on 'patch'
Jun 26 01:20:24 <rwhitby> (it's a linux command)
Jun 26 01:20:36 <tmzt> how did we get into this anyway? I'm not interested in changing amss or rf stuff at all, just having the option of using fso stack
Jun 26 01:20:40 <rwhitby> then ipkg-opt install patch, and use the patch file provided.
Jun 26 01:21:11 <rwhitby> tmzt: ah, fso will need to link in lower than the current webOS services
Jun 26 01:21:14 <tharris> can somone enlighten me, when i click an app, what is the command issued ? is its like palm://blah?
Jun 26 01:21:22 <tharris> it*
Jun 26 01:21:28 <tmzt> yeah, which is why I care about the modem mux protocol
Jun 26 01:21:46 <Rick__> when you click on an app,  the result is a luna internal process
Jun 26 01:22:04 <rwhitby> tmzt: ah, I was answering xandrake_'s question: " true, but won't hardware require different apps for CDMA vs GSM?"
Jun 26 01:22:13 <Rick__> LunaSysMgr is operating the screen, reads your click and launches the app using a call inside Luna  it isn't a linux ap.
Jun 26 01:22:19 <tmzt> apps?
Jun 26 01:22:28 <tharris> yeah i havent reversed luna yet
Jun 26 01:22:33 <rwhitby> i'm assuming he meant webos apps
Jun 26 01:22:36 <tmzt> I mean there are some process with Sprint in the name right?
Jun 26 01:22:41 <rwhitby> yep
Jun 26 01:22:42 <tharris> yeah rw*
Jun 26 01:22:43 <tmzt> oh, no I wouldn't think so
Jun 26 01:22:43 <Rick__> yep
Jun 26 01:22:45 <Rick__> not many tho
Jun 26 01:22:59 <rwhitby> tmzt: wouldn't think what?
Jun 26 01:23:12 <tmzt> that webos apps would have to change for gsm/cdma
Jun 26 01:23:25 <tmzt> cdma uses the gsm at commands on most devices
Jun 26 01:23:28 <funkatron> uh. no.
Jun 26 01:23:33 <rwhitby> tmzt: agreed.
Jun 26 01:23:46 <rwhitby> tmzt: sorry, I didn't realise you were talking fso level stuff
Jun 26 01:23:57 <tmzt> the differences are things like special commands in the dialer to do initial programming, update prl, etc.
Jun 26 01:23:58 <rwhitby> we haven't done anything on that level in this channel at all
Jun 26 01:24:04 <tmzt> we already know about that
Jun 26 01:24:09 <Technobabble> http://predev.wikidot.com/pre-terminal-options  <-- are these all the terminal options?
Jun 26 01:24:22 <rwhitby> tmzt: is the low-level stuff being discussed in an fso channel anywhere?
Jun 26 01:25:11 <tmzt> not for pre, a couple of the developers are somewhat interested but are in gsm areas
Jun 26 01:25:16 <tmzt> countries
Jun 26 01:25:35 <rwhitby> yeah, I know the feeling ...
Jun 26 01:25:47 <tmzt> in openmoko now, fso is the low level part that changes across devices
Jun 26 01:26:14 <bclancy> jblar:  If you ran the above script and want to remove it, the author left a file you can just rename
Jun 26 01:26:18 <tmzt> I've already begun adding cdma support for the touch pro, and hopefully it will be generic enough to simplify adding other cdma devices
Jun 26 01:26:31 <bclancy> jblair:  Here are the details of how to undo it:  http://forums.precentral.net/hardware-use-trouble-shooting/186071-pre-roam-only-hack-5.html#post1699072
Jun 26 01:26:56 <gkatsev> i have installed ajaxPHPterm, but when i start it it starts up as root, is there a way to make it start under my user? or to change users?
Jun 26 01:27:38 <Technobabble> gkatsev, some of the guys are making a new terminal system
Jun 26 01:27:39 <tmzt> patch to php part
Jun 26 01:27:44 <tmzt> patch the
Jun 26 01:28:40 <gkatsev> tmzt: right, thttpd.conf...
Jun 26 01:29:46 <tmzt> yeah, that should work
Jun 26 01:29:52 <tmzt> it will bind and then drop privs
Jun 26 01:29:57 <gkatsev> Technobabble: cool, any links or details about it?
Jun 26 01:30:11 <Technobabble> someone was talking about it being broken up into a client/server
Jun 26 01:30:39 <Technobabble> i think it was PreGame, actually
Jun 26 01:30:42 <gkatsev> i really want a term, i have irc/aim running inside screen on a server, so, sshing into it would be awesome
Jun 26 01:33:08 <gkatsev> i also forgot to change permissions to 644 and 755... totally missed that part
Jun 26 01:38:22 <Rick__> terminal / consol is entirely do-able from mojo.
Jun 26 01:38:27 <Rick__> not TRIVIAL but doable
Jun 26 01:38:38 <Technobabble> is it on the wiki yet?
Jun 26 01:38:47 <Rick__> what?
Jun 26 01:39:09 <EvanDotPro> Rick_: yeah, i even offered to build the mojo ui if someone can bridge the gap with either a dbus daemon or a browser plugin.
Jun 26 01:39:33 <EvanDotPro> but like rwhitby said, it should be done right if we do it.
Jun 26 01:40:12 <rwhitby> do we have the source for the command execution daemon?
Jun 26 01:40:22 <tharris> pregames?
Jun 26 01:40:27 <rwhitby> yep
Jun 26 01:40:33 <tharris> think its jus this jar
Jun 26 01:40:35 <rwhitby> which public repo is it in?
Jun 26 01:40:43 <tharris> git?
Jun 26 01:41:09 <rwhitby> url?
Jun 26 01:41:12 <tharris> i dunno
Jun 26 01:41:18 <tharris> ill ask when he gets back
Jun 26 01:42:00 <rwhitby> I've been asking continuously.  dunno why he is not putting the source somewhere where others can help work on it ...
Jun 26 01:42:11 <tharris> yeah i dunno, i want it =p
Jun 26 01:42:12 <Technobabble> i'd love to give it a shot
Jun 26 01:43:19 <rwhitby> tharris: my normal credo is "if it's not in a publicly accessible repository, then it effectively doesn't exist"
Jun 26 01:45:17 <hemna|work> looks like Palm is going to change the NDA a bit for us on the early SDK access
Jun 26 01:45:42 <tmzt> rwhitby: I guess it has potential to cause harm
Jun 26 01:45:50 <tmzt> xss => root hole
Jun 26 01:46:02 <tmzt> is not something I want to see
Jun 26 01:46:19 <rwhitby> tmzt: what are you referring to?
Jun 26 01:46:24 <tmzt> nothing specific
Jun 26 01:46:29 <tmzt> just a class of attack
Jun 26 01:47:31 <rwhitby> tmzt: are you referring to the source code for the command execution daemon?
Jun 26 01:48:04 <tmzt> yes, I mean I assume he doesn't want it widely installed yet
Jun 26 01:48:23 <cphelps> tmzt: mostly because it's not really done
Jun 26 01:48:32 <rwhitby> the charter of this channel is full disclosure of legitimate information
Jun 26 01:48:53 <cphelps> rwhitby: legitimate, and legal according to sprint.
Jun 26 01:49:08 <rwhitby> yes, during the exclusitivy period
Jun 26 01:49:42 <rwhitby> so we need to have the source code for anything we do fully disclosed
Jun 26 01:50:01 <rwhitby> if some security hole relies on hiding the source, then imho we shouldn't be using that for anything.
Jun 26 01:50:01 <cphelps> rwhitby: which as far as I am concerned is absolute bollocks. Sprint posted that tethering was going to be possible. If they hadn't, I wouldn't give them a hard time about it.
Jun 26 01:50:14 <tharris> some security things will need to be handled privatelyif they are scary enough
Jun 26 01:50:18 <tharris> imho
Jun 26 01:50:40 <rwhitby> tharris: those things should just be disclosed to Palm, and not put on the wiki
Jun 26 01:50:48 <tharris> *nod*
Jun 26 01:50:55 <rwhitby> all our stuff so far is not in that category
Jun 26 01:50:58 <tmzt> I would also not recommend make the binary widely availabe if thsoe problems are potentially there, but if the binary is availibe the source should be as well
Jun 26 01:51:20 <seigex> sigh
Jun 26 01:51:26 <rwhitby> tmzt: this command execution daemon is not in that category.  you have to get root on your phone to install it.
Jun 26 01:51:34 <tharris> which requires local access
Jun 26 01:51:58 <tmzt> rwhitby: my concern is it will be open to web pages visited in the browser
Jun 26 01:52:01 <tharris> the whole webos binaries are pulic =p
Jun 26 01:52:21 <rwhitby> tmzt: only if a user has installed the browser download mod, which they need root to install
Jun 26 01:52:56 <rwhitby> and the email installation vulnerability can only do stuff in /var as far as we can see, so it's also not in the serious category
Jun 26 01:53:01 <cphelps> tmzt: you would be incorrect.
Jun 26 01:53:01 <tmzt> are instructions for just about everybody are to "root" their phone, right?
Jun 26 01:53:17 <tmzt> so we should assume that anybody who wants to can root
Jun 26 01:53:17 <cphelps> tmzt: I don't believe ipk downloads at all
Jun 26 01:53:22 <rwhitby> tmzt: right - anyone can make that choice
Jun 26 01:53:52 <rwhitby> tmzt: put someone can't be tricked into installing malware unless they have previously made that personal explicit choice
Jun 26 01:53:57 <rwhitby> s/put/but/
Jun 26 01:54:38 <rwhitby> that's the key - informed choice, rather than phishing links for non-aware users.
Jun 26 01:54:39 <cphelps> rwhitby: we actually cleaned up an exploit with that patch
Jun 26 01:54:41 <tharris> if someone roots the phone leaves telnet open then complains they should have to reflash lol......
Jun 26 01:55:00 <cphelps> rwhitby: a lot of things we doing that loop exploit, but it could have been much worse
Jun 26 01:55:19 <tharris> is post or preinst could be possible yeah much worse
Jun 26 01:55:49 <rwhitby> cphelps: I couldn't parse that last sentence, sorry.
Jun 26 01:55:53 <tharris> if*
Jun 26 01:56:52 <cphelps> rwhitby: the pre's browser HAD an exploit to begin with, which is closed with our browser patch
Jun 26 01:57:14 <rwhitby> cphelps: ah, right.
Jun 26 01:57:17 <cphelps> rwhitby: trying to open a zip would cause all kinds of issues
Jun 26 01:57:25 <rwhitby> did we license that fix MIT?
Jun 26 01:57:33 <rwhitby> (so Palm can just use it?)
Jun 26 01:57:45 <cphelps> rwhitby: we didn't license it at all, but we need to start thinking about that.
Jun 26 01:57:48 <tharris> can someone enlighten me to that exploit ? in private at least
Jun 26 01:58:03 <rwhitby> cphelps: everything we do on gitorious.org is MIT, so Palm can use it.
Jun 26 01:58:08 <cphelps> tharris: click on a zip file in the browser
Jun 26 01:58:12 <rwhitby> everything on the wiki is CC
Jun 26 01:59:11 <cphelps> rwhitby: until those fools give me the SDK, there isn't much I can do.
Jun 26 01:59:31 <cphelps> rwhitby: but honestly, whoever was working on the browser is not a particularly talented dev
Jun 26 01:59:54 <tharris> why u say that cause of your exploit
Jun 26 02:00:28 <rwhitby> cphelps: that's the risk of Palm using javascript, the bell curve of programmers in large companies is exposed ...
Jun 26 02:00:38 <PreGame> what exploit?
Jun 26 02:01:37 <Technobabble> hey PreGame, did you publish your new terminal/console thing?
Jun 26 02:01:41 <rwhitby> PreGame: is the source code for the command execution daemon available somewhere?
Jun 26 02:02:13 <cphelps> tharris: because i've read every line of the JS, and it's not written by someone all that talented. Write enough code, and you can see it in other people.
Jun 26 02:05:05 <Rick__> cphelps -- all you needed was a height parameter on commandoutput in the css
Jun 26 02:05:15 <tharris> to my credit i code enough, i do not know a ton of javascript
Jun 26 02:05:17 <Rick__> heightl: 100px;  works fine
Jun 26 02:05:44 <mdklein> I've never really wrote anything in JS before, but it's fairly easy to follow
Jun 26 02:05:46 <Rick__> if you don't restrict the height, text objects expand to hold them.
Jun 26 02:06:10 <Rick__> then the scroller doesn't work, because the text doesn't exceed the height of the object even if the object exceeds the screen.
Jun 26 02:06:23 <Rick__> there is no default scroller for the screen on a mojo object.
Jun 26 02:06:36 <cphelps> Rick__: I had a height limit, and it would just keep going outside of it
Jun 26 02:06:57 <Rick__> there wasn't one in command.css on div#commandOutput {
Jun 26 02:07:12 <cphelps> I took it out because it was just writing over it anyway
Jun 26 02:07:17 <Rick__> huh
Jun 26 02:07:21 <cphelps> and thus the bottom border of the widget was drawing
Jun 26 02:07:31 <cphelps> but doing so over the command text
Jun 26 02:10:38 <Rick__> huh
Jun 26 02:13:34 <Rick__> what the hell does "invalid tar magic" mean?
Jun 26 02:14:06 <hemna> magic number in the header is borked
Jun 26 02:14:22 <Rick__> ok
Jun 26 02:14:25 <Rick__> huh
Jun 26 02:14:27 <cphelps> Rick__: most likely a problem with your heroin supply
Jun 26 02:14:31 <hemna> magic numbers are typically to help tell the app that the file is still in good shape and was written correctly
Jun 26 02:15:02 <tharris> means u unzip a .zip with tar
Jun 26 02:15:15 <tharris> or gz with unzip hehe
Jun 26 02:18:44 <rwhitby> do we have a wiki page for the dbus command execution service yet?
Jun 26 02:19:11 <cphelps> rwhitby: I think the idea is to not do that until he's done
Jun 26 02:19:19 <cphelps> rwhitby: because he's changing the names of stuff
Jun 26 02:19:34 <rwhitby> cphelps: I mean one that explains how such a thing works.
Jun 26 02:19:43 <rwhitby> (that should come first)
Jun 26 02:19:58 <cphelps> rwhitby: no, the java service page is barely there, no details
Jun 26 02:20:33 <rwhitby> cphelps: url?
Jun 26 02:20:53 <djk> something odd with the browser and this page it keeps opening new cards even when pops and javascript is off
Jun 26 02:20:53 <djk> http://www.somersetpatriots.com/
Jun 26 02:21:15 <tmzt> the simplest license that would allow them to use it is public domain
Jun 26 02:21:36 <tmzt> sorry, I was away
Jun 26 02:22:16 <tmzt> cphelps: never said ipk
Jun 26 02:22:22 <cphelps> djk: the browser thinks that is a streaming file, but then the system launches another browser to view it, which then loops
Jun 26 02:22:37 <rwhitby> tmzt: I expect the authors would like copyright attribution in the source at least.  Hence MIT license.
Jun 26 02:22:39 <tmzt> can you enlighten me about this command execution daemon
Jun 26 02:22:42 <cphelps> tmzt: what do you mean?
Jun 26 02:23:06 <tmzt> you said ipk xoesn't download
Jun 26 02:23:18 <tharris> whats odd about the browser stuff is if you write javascript to open new links (automically) it ignores it
Jun 26 02:23:21 <rwhitby> tmzt: at the moment, it seems the command execution daemon stuff hasn't been documented.  I'm about to change that ...
Jun 26 02:23:26 <Rick__> nope, that's not QUITEw what we said.
Jun 26 02:23:29 <cphelps> tmzt: that was my rememberance
Jun 26 02:23:52 <Rick__> ipk downloads.   Ipk does not execute post-download scripts
Jun 26 02:24:30 <djk> cphelps: that's not good seems like bug for Palm to get fixed is the a good way to inform them?
Jun 26 02:24:44 <cphelps> Rick__: different issue. We're talking about downloading ipk in the browser
Jun 26 02:24:48 <rwhitby> Rick__: ipkg does execute postinst scripts
Jun 26 02:25:01 <rwhitby> ipkg-opt does too
Jun 26 02:25:23 <rwhitby> the palm installation service (not ipkg itself) seems to be stripping them
Jun 26 02:25:32 <tmzt> can ipk be launched now?
Jun 26 02:25:38 <rwhitby> sure, on the command line
Jun 26 02:25:50 <tmzt> I mean from ui
Jun 26 02:26:31 <cphelps> so hold on, folks. What do we need to do from the command line after the ipk installs itself?
Jun 26 02:26:52 <rwhitby> tmzt: apparently PreGame is working on that, and cphelps has used a .jar release from PreGame to do a command line executor app.
Jun 26 02:27:26 <rwhitby> there is no doco on how the dbus executor works, so no-one can replicate it yet except by decompiling the .jar from PreGame
Jun 26 02:27:56 <rwhitby> I'm gonna work on documenting it first, since that is more important than a .jar file that implements it.
Jun 26 02:28:11 <cphelps> rwhitby: it's cake thouch
Jun 26 02:28:13 <cphelps> though
Jun 26 02:28:15 <cphelps> cmd is the command
Jun 26 02:28:23 <cphelps> response.output is the return value
Jun 26 02:28:39 <tmzt> otherwise I don't get the issue
Jun 26 02:28:41 <cphelps> which comes to the onSuccess and onFailure functions
Jun 26 02:29:12 <cphelps> tmzt: the issue is that the ipk doesn't work all of the way yet. I don;t know what they are attempting to do in the post install script though
Jun 26 02:29:20 <rwhitby> cphelps: I'm more speaking of how it all works with webOS, not just the API to the class.
Jun 26 02:29:58 <cphelps> rwhitby: gotcha. mdklein is my luna send man
Jun 26 02:30:37 <tmzt> oh, so palm provided the dbus service?
Jun 26 02:30:52 <Rick__> yes
Jun 26 02:30:56 <cphelps> tmzt: palm uses it for mostly everything
Jun 26 02:30:57 <rwhitby> cphelps: right, so we gotta get that info out of people's heads and onto the wiki :-)
Jun 26 02:31:18 <tmzt> I mean the one for executing code as root
Jun 26 02:31:22 <cphelps> rwhitby: he has a page or two that has been well ke[t
Jun 26 02:31:37 <rwhitby> mdklein: which pages?
Jun 26 02:31:49 <Rick__> the one for executing code is a java service written by pregame.
Jun 26 02:31:50 <cphelps> tmzt: anyone can execute code as root, you just have to be root!
Jun 26 02:32:01 <mdklein> which interface would you like me to document next?
Jun 26 02:32:18 <Rick__> if you want to look at it,  go to precentral, download the flashlight app,  and get the service from there.
Jun 26 02:32:33 <Rick__> it's certainly simple enough to open up the class file and look at the code.
Jun 26 02:32:40 <cphelps> mdklein: you should check the difference between launching an ipk from email vs. the browser
Jun 26 02:33:12 <mdklein> k
Jun 26 02:33:13 <mdklein> will do
Jun 26 02:33:43 <cphelps> mdklein: been meaning to do that, but I got sidetracked with the command line app
Jun 26 02:33:55 <rwhitby> mdklein: can you point me to the current doco?
Jun 26 02:34:09 <Rick__> ok guys,   I give up.  what are YOU guys using to get files onto the palm?
Jun 26 02:34:23 <cphelps> ok folks, my batt is dying, and people at the wine shop think I should be more sociable
Jun 26 02:34:25 <rwhitby> Rick__: if I had a Pre, I would use scp.
Jun 26 02:34:28 <mdklein> it's on the research, and luna-send page.. I only have done a couple interfaces, and only the downloadmanager fully
Jun 26 02:34:30 <rwhitby> (root user with a key)
Jun 26 02:34:53 <rwhitby> mdklein: which interface is used for the execution daemon?
Jun 26 02:35:19 <mdklein> uh, I haven't documented that yet
Jun 26 02:35:29 <mdklein> I'll look in ab it
Jun 26 02:35:33 <Rick__> what's the install rwhitby.
Jun 26 02:36:37 <rwhitby> sorry if people think I'm getting pushy yet, but this execution daemon thing has been going for days now, and it seems that the collaboration on it is not being captured in the wiki, which is making progress depend upon one or two people only.
Jun 26 02:36:55 <mdklein> I haven't looked at it yet
Jun 26 02:37:09 <rwhitby> my hope for this community is that people push info and unfinished code out early, so that others can help ...
Jun 26 02:37:46 <rwhitby> (I'm not coming down on anyone in particular - everyone here is a volunteer)
Jun 26 02:38:08 <rwhitby> just suggesting ways that the load can be shared around to enable faster progress and less load on any one individual.
Jun 26 02:38:27 <tharris> wow tcpdump for pre is win
Jun 26 02:40:48 <rwhitby> I was hoping that if the source was available (either directly, or decompiled from the .jar) then we would be able to package it up as a command-line installable .ipk and then move on.
Jun 26 02:41:28 <Rick__> and it is so available.
Jun 26 02:41:38 <rwhitby> the source code?
Jun 26 02:41:41 <Rick__> sure.
Jun 26 02:41:50 <Rick__> the jar is in the flashlight app on precentral
Jun 26 02:41:50 <rwhitby> where?
Jun 26 02:41:56 <Rick__> decompiling it is about 3 seconds.
Jun 26 02:41:59 <Rick__> where do you want it?
Jun 26 02:42:09 <Technobabble> has anyone proposed an order for ap ideas?
Jun 26 02:42:22 <Rick__> no tech, we're all running in circles
Jun 26 02:42:49 <rwhitby> Rick__: on the wiki to start with, assuming the license of the jar is an open source license?
Jun 26 02:42:55 <Rick__> the only hesitation I have rwhitby is that PreGame wrote it, and I sort of feel like he ought to be posting it.....
Jun 26 02:42:55 <Technobabble> i'm not exactly sure how people would decide which aps to tackle first
Jun 26 02:43:09 <Rick__> no license listed, no copyright in the code.
Jun 26 02:43:21 <rwhitby> ok, we can't decompile and post that source then.
Jun 26 02:43:30 <rwhitby> (unless PreGame specifically allows it)
Jun 26 02:43:43 <Rick__> Ping PreGame
Jun 26 02:45:14 <Rick__> :-(
Jun 26 02:45:22 <rwhitby> I've asked PreGame for the source a couple of times in channel.
Jun 26 02:45:25 <Rick__> and we're back to that.
Jun 26 02:45:51 <tharris> next time hes here just ask, if he ignore pm him, if he ignores u got ur answer
Jun 26 02:45:56 <rwhitby> I do want to respect his right as the author of the code to disclose it when and when he prefers.
Jun 26 02:46:17 <Technobabble> especially if it's not ready\
Jun 26 02:46:18 <Rick__> so....   pregame said he wrote it from the stff that someone ELSE posted....   the tricky part is linking to the classes for the java service stuff.
Jun 26 02:46:28 <Rick__> the service ITSELF is ready.
Jun 26 02:46:30 <Rick__> it's done.
Jun 26 02:46:43 <Rick__> the problem PreGame is having is he wanted a non-root installation for it.
Jun 26 02:47:08 <rwhitby> Technobabble: release early, release often.
Jun 26 02:47:16 <tharris> yeah but its sooo early still in this
Jun 26 02:47:45 <rwhitby> tharris: all the more reason to release so that others can (a) keep up and (b) help.
Jun 26 02:47:58 <tharris> oh i agree
Jun 26 02:48:05 <tharris> that was my point
Jun 26 02:48:28 <rwhitby> again, the approach that PreGame takes with respect to releasing the source code is completely his choice.
Jun 26 02:48:30 <tharris> people dont get mad as reverse engineering is going on in an effort to get things developed for the world, they will be understanding
Jun 26 02:48:40 <tharris> and i also agree with that
Jun 26 02:49:11 <rwhitby> I'm saying that the information that allows anyone to create an application execution daemon should be on our wiki now.
Jun 26 02:49:35 <rwhitby> and I'm ready to help write those wiki pages.
Jun 26 02:49:49 <rwhitby> I'm trying to find out what is there already, so I don't duplicate.
Jun 26 02:49:50 <Rick__> cphelps:  Ok, got commander onto my pre...  runs.   every command I type says "failed."  Is that what you're seeing?
Jun 26 02:50:10 <Rick__> also,  yes, the widget is ignoring the height.  I think I can fix that.
Jun 26 02:52:39 <Rick__> http://www.vocshop.com/pre/com.app.commander.zip
Jun 26 02:52:53 <Rick__> that app depends on flashlight having been installed.
Jun 26 02:53:06 <Rick__> Oh crap.  That app depends on flashlight being installed, and I forgot to do that.
Jun 26 02:53:10 <Rick__> :-)  Color me stupid
Jun 26 02:53:37 <Rick__> but I could use some mojo majic fixing commander.html
Jun 26 02:53:53 <Rick__> or rather commander-scene.html
Jun 26 02:54:34 <gaffo_laptop> bpadalino, at the hotel
Jun 26 02:54:42 <tharris> hi!
Jun 26 02:54:49 <bpadalino> oh, i just got home too
Jun 26 02:55:45 <gaffo_laptop> bpadalino, man, you work late there
Jun 26 02:55:57 <bpadalino> nah - i was out at a friends place
Jun 26 02:56:00 <bpadalino> he got laid off today
Jun 26 02:56:04 <bpadalino> so i brought him whiskey
Jun 26 02:56:10 <bpadalino> and drank a few beers with him
Jun 26 02:56:18 <bpadalino> how was sf ?
Jun 26 02:57:04 <rwhitby> mdklein: what's the addition to http://predev.wikidot.com/luna-send which is needed for command execution?
Jun 26 02:58:04 <mdklein> I don't know offhand, I can dig around
Jun 26 02:58:37 <rwhitby> thx
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 26 02:59:57 2009