**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 27 02:59:56 2009 Jun 27 03:00:12 nicve. luna rescan command Jun 27 03:00:15 that's new to me Jun 27 03:02:37 well it wouldnt work without it Jun 27 03:02:47 so i was go shite, mind as well trythis Jun 27 03:02:52 pkill LunaSysMgr? Jun 27 03:02:53 going* Jun 27 03:03:08 no need to kill the whole phone service =p Jun 27 03:03:25 It did work nice the rescan Jun 27 03:03:46 how about other low memory apps like email? Jun 27 03:03:58 or messages? Jun 27 03:04:11 what u mean Jun 27 03:04:30 if you make changes to apps in low memory Jun 27 03:04:37 does a rescan pick those up too? Jun 27 03:04:59 just playing the devils advocate on the timout changing thing: what happens when there is a change of the time back an hour? Jun 27 03:05:01 or is the rescan for db changes? Jun 27 03:05:02 im gona guess that any changes to apps in the launcher requre rescan Jun 27 03:05:18 some just require card close Jun 27 03:05:40 so it could be the database, but why change the data bases when im just showing html/js Jun 27 03:05:57 this one did not Jun 27 03:06:07 at least from what i saw Jun 27 03:06:23 trying to find the simplest way to refresh dev work Jun 27 03:06:26 without reboot Jun 27 03:06:41 and pkill LunaSysMgr was what I was using but I'll try this now Jun 27 03:06:44 thanks Jun 27 03:07:05 wasnt mine =p Jun 27 03:07:09 i rightfully stole it Jun 27 03:07:16 You think it'd be good to compile pre and post dev scripts? Jun 27 03:07:29 no Jun 27 03:07:41 good for us, bad for security Jun 27 03:07:45 Ah. Jun 27 03:07:50 Thus the "SDK" answer. Jun 27 03:08:03 With the 11 page NDA Jun 27 03:08:13 I'll ask again (even though I don';t suspect it's an issue): what happens to the sleep timeout code when the time changes from daylight savings to normal and back? Jun 27 03:08:26 Hmm. Jun 27 03:08:31 im guessing Jun 27 03:08:32 bclancy: nothing different than what used to happen Jun 27 03:08:43 Unless you set it for longer than an hour Jun 27 03:09:13 that's why I'm not worried about your change, but the question still exists - is there a possible palm bug here Jun 27 03:09:14 Is it timestamped? or a timer/ Jun 27 03:09:20 I have a feeling that daylight savings just changes the timezone not unix time Jun 27 03:09:34 time would really solve the problem - bet they do that! Jun 27 03:09:50 of course - thx Jun 27 03:10:24 it's the amss used on msm6800, not the chips themselves Jun 27 03:10:25 just was curious - I'm not worried at all now! :-) Jun 27 03:12:26 Is there any new apps in the app store? Jun 27 03:12:32 -catalog Jun 27 03:12:40 i see the note above: " The 1.0.3 update does not seem to break Jun 27 03:12:41 any of our modifications." Jun 27 03:13:06 the average user has no idea about all this work Jun 27 03:13:07 however is the camera timer hack included in this statement Jun 27 03:13:19 the key word there is user Jun 27 03:13:47 We passed "user" a long time ago. We are now /power/users...oooow. Jun 27 03:13:59 by the time this it gets to missin critical mode, palm will have another method for us.. read SDK Jun 27 03:14:15 method? Jun 27 03:14:20 mission Jun 27 03:14:28 We can't make our own? Jun 27 03:14:34 you can Jun 27 03:14:41 but delpoyment will be different Jun 27 03:14:47 Ah. Jun 27 03:14:57 Mainstream?? Jun 27 03:15:06 probably always allow root though, if you ask me Jun 27 03:15:13 Why put effort into it, when your just going to have to mainstream it. Jun 27 03:15:24 because it's here now Jun 27 03:15:32 why climb the mountain? Jun 27 03:15:41 simplyflipflops: the thing is, if they close down the email hole and don't allow third party apps save through the app store, there may be some limitations as to what apps they'll distribute for us Jun 27 03:15:42 Yup Jun 27 03:15:59 I may be wrong here Jun 27 03:15:59 Porn? Jun 27 03:16:01 but Jun 27 03:16:08 they are going to allow install via usb i believe Jun 27 03:16:17 Novaterm? Jun 27 03:16:23 They can Jun 27 03:16:24 I see in the rough cut documentation where the author is refrencing ipks in his downloads media folder Jun 27 03:16:40 PreGame: install via USB already works Jun 27 03:16:40 Nice. Jun 27 03:16:49 I would assume if you upload your ipks to the downloads folder and install from there it might do the trick later on Jun 27 03:16:52 i'm talking about without having to root the pre Jun 27 03:16:53 or if you have the sdk Jun 27 03:16:59 there may be a setting Jun 27 03:17:16 install via some document manager Jun 27 03:17:21 PreGame: as others have pointed out before nobody has to root their pre Jun 27 03:17:22 and it would be like the old palm days again Jun 27 03:17:27 but I'm just guessing here Jun 27 03:17:56 you know what i'm trying to say Jun 27 03:17:59 id you willingly transfer the ipk to your media folder and click on it, there's a high probability you know the source for that package Jun 27 03:18:02 The development will be a lot different than the "old palm days" Jun 27 03:18:13 there will be an application like palm hotsync Jun 27 03:18:13 I'm talking about installation Jun 27 03:18:27 hotsync is dead Jun 27 03:18:31 Why a media folder, why not, just drag to install like Mac OSX Jun 27 03:18:33 PreGame: the phone comes rooted, the only question is whether we need dev mode to install something with novacom Jun 27 03:18:46 Why require the "user" that. Jun 27 03:18:51 They won't get that. Jun 27 03:18:56 heh because I don't have a mac. :D Jun 27 03:19:04 Well, install is one step Jun 27 03:19:36 but if they need an SDK to install 3rd party apps, then it won't happen either Jun 27 03:19:47 wel.. lets list all the ways to get data onto the device Jun 27 03:19:56 USB Jun 27 03:19:57 BT Jun 27 03:20:03 email Jun 27 03:20:06 browser Jun 27 03:20:08 wget Jun 27 03:20:09 appcatalog Jun 27 03:20:16 nonrooted Jun 27 03:20:24 average user Jun 27 03:20:30 wget is my vote Jun 27 03:20:34 heh Jun 27 03:20:38 lynx.. :P Jun 27 03:20:52 9.1 in the new version of the SDK talks about system services Jun 27 03:20:53 could also have a web server on the device and allow uploads Jun 27 03:20:58 browser or usb direct copy would make sense. Jun 27 03:21:00 ssh/ftp Jun 27 03:21:02 err new version of the WebOS book rater Jun 27 03:21:05 rather Jun 27 03:21:28 system services is technically a "browser" call.. right? Jun 27 03:21:37 bclancy: BTW, the gitorious.org site is not "my" repo - it's a community resource with 17 people with commit rights, and growing :-) Jun 27 03:21:46 I think I might actually want to buy the book now. Jun 27 03:22:01 OK, good/sorry Jun 27 03:22:07 just a couple pages but still Jun 27 03:22:12 and wget is also a "browser" call.. for lack of better definition Jun 27 03:22:24 i just bought the book last week.. Jun 27 03:22:26 anyone here have the terminal app working on their pre? Jun 27 03:22:34 and it mentions a "palm bus" (obviously dbus) Jun 27 03:22:46 it would be cool to open the term and SSH out directly from the pre Jun 27 03:24:06 The system services are accessed through Mojo.Service.Request() or the equivalent scene controller method, this.controller.serviceRequest(). Jun 27 03:24:07 i saw the notes on the wiki .. they appear to be a work in progress stilll Jun 27 03:25:03 could u redirect it like a tty? Jun 27 03:26:13 rwhitby: I might call it a night soon provided the upstart/init.d fix is not ready for testing Jun 27 03:26:22 just uploaded it Jun 27 03:26:38 ooh service subscriptions Jun 27 03:26:56 ipkg-opt install http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/blobs/raw/007ce7020b37c9b11826342352149f51af9c1389/org.webosinternals.services/org.webosinternals.services-0.2_all.ipk Jun 27 03:27:38 you should see: Jun 27 03:27:39 Upgrading org.webosinternals.services on root from 0.1 to 0.2... Jun 27 03:27:48 then reboot Jun 27 03:27:58 do I need to uninstall the previous one (ie: will any cruft be left behind if I don't?) Jun 27 03:28:52 nope, ipkg-opt handles the upgrade properly Jun 27 03:29:00 I guess I'm asking if there is an ipkg-ot elete Jun 27 03:29:04 ok Jun 27 03:29:16 trying it now ... Jun 27 03:29:23 there is an ipkg-opt remove, but an upgrade handles it, just like apt or rpm Jun 27 03:29:46 preumably I nee to suo or be root Jun 27 03:29:50 sudo Jun 27 03:30:14 yep Jun 27 03:30:25 hey, any of you remember when Intel put a embedded ID # in every CPU that could be used in software to uniquely identify them / track them? remember the uproar it caused? Jun 27 03:31:00 yep, the Pre has a couple of those IDs in it. Jun 27 03:31:00 well, on the pre we have "com.palm.properties.nduid" that seems to do the same thing Jun 27 03:31:06 so waht is this services 0.2 for? Jun 27 03:31:14 there'll be one in the MSM too Jun 27 03:31:26 SirWill: this one has an upstart script to restart it on each boot Jun 27 03:31:30 not worried about that Jun 27 03:31:43 we already have other id on this thing Jun 27 03:31:48 phone number Jun 27 03:31:57 seems to be an easier way to contact me Jun 27 03:31:58 ;) Jun 27 03:32:05 imei for gsm version Jun 27 03:32:07 can you give me the luna call to start the service again? Jun 27 03:32:12 any downside to installing this? Jun 27 03:32:37 SirWill: worst case, it will delete all your data. You've got a backup, right? Jun 27 03:32:44 let's just say I'd be happier if I have to authorize an app to give out this info Jun 27 03:32:51 I foresee a serious OS patch in my future Jun 27 03:32:59 backup, hmm that would be a good idea. ;) Jun 27 03:33:15 well.. when you download an app from the app catalog you're sending a lot of personal data Jun 27 03:33:29 well.. system specific Jun 27 03:33:34 user specific Jun 27 03:33:41 carrier specific Jun 27 03:34:05 let alone your triangulated position when you make a phone call Jun 27 03:34:06 you're sending your email address, carrier, MEID and stuff, but to palm. the question is if palm passes any of that along Jun 27 03:34:24 Im sure they do Jun 27 03:34:26 why not Jun 27 03:34:35 but I think it's more for software updates Jun 27 03:34:52 Am I the only one disturbed by the privacy issues? Jun 27 03:34:56 so they know how to reload your phone when it needs reloading Jun 27 03:35:06 that backup data service they do Jun 27 03:35:08 destinal, no your not the only one Jun 27 03:35:23 welcome to 2009. :D Jun 27 03:35:23 especially with some of the unique ID's accessible to any app, that's well beyond palm Jun 27 03:35:31 just think about all the data google has Jun 27 03:35:41 no one seems concerned about that Jun 27 03:35:48 rwhitby: can you give me the luna command to call your service again? Jun 27 03:36:05 I know google's policies on protecting data and have friends who work there who can back it up. we don't know the same about random app developre Jun 27 03:36:14 or even palm for that matter Jun 27 03:36:16 bclancy: it's in the channel backlog Jun 27 03:36:38 just because it's presented as annonymouse doesn't mean it isn't aggregated Jun 27 03:36:50 and processed Jun 27 03:36:57 i've just learned to deal with the amount of info that goes out... worse case you can always get an unlocked cell phone.. buy a t-Mo gsm chip with fake name off of ebay.. then call mistress Jun 27 03:37:13 http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos-internals-prev.txt, search for luna-send Jun 27 03:39:05 i hadnt seen this but it is neat http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/187400-change-palm-glow-color-boot-2.html Jun 27 03:39:36 not hard just some nice pics people have Jun 27 03:40:41 ok. fess up.. how many times have you people re-rom'd Jun 27 03:41:13 can you save an "image" of your setup? Jun 27 03:41:20 how do i bring up that wave thing Jun 27 03:41:23 with my apps listed Jun 27 03:41:24 I only ask because I once had the blue glow setup Jun 27 03:41:43 now it's not worth the trouble Jun 27 03:41:56 MTW.. just put your finger on the black area at the bottom... then drag your finger up Jun 27 03:41:59 hi Jun 27 03:42:10 thanks! Jun 27 03:42:20 just got it today Jun 27 03:42:22 don't know mcuh yey Jun 27 03:42:24 *much yet Jun 27 03:42:28 congrats!! Jun 27 03:42:51 simply a ton =p i dont even have mp3's on my phone, but i script it al so i dont have to do it again Jun 27 03:43:07 MTW: welcome. BTW, the general webos help channel is in #webos with the Palm folks in there. Jun 27 03:43:15 lots to play with.. make sure you give it a nice full charge tonight.. using the USB... Doing this helps set the Phones internal battery meter Jun 27 03:43:42 they left us? Jun 27 03:43:54 was playing with the DB last night via app Jun 27 03:44:05 and the system went into this really bad loop Jun 27 03:44:11 where it started activation again Jun 27 03:44:27 and luckily I had my /var/log/messages logger on Jun 27 03:44:49 it must have sat on the retrieving backup data for almost half an hour Jun 27 03:44:55 tmzt: we're too distracting for the Palm folks Jun 27 03:45:17 javadump gallore Jun 27 03:49:11 what are you guys getting for average battery life.. I get about 12 hours with EVDO, wifi, bt turned off and very moderate use.. Gtalk an AIM, gmail, and exchange server Jun 27 03:49:42 occasionally turn on EVDO for web or maps Jun 27 03:51:24 the sdk is now out Jun 27 03:51:29 and by that i mean "out" Jun 27 03:51:46 link Jun 27 03:51:54 rwhitby: probably now what you want to hear: Jun 27 03:51:56 bclancy84@castle:~$ ps -efwwww | grep -i luna | grep -i helper Jun 27 03:51:57 not in here Jun 27 03:51:58 bclancy84@castle:~$ Jun 27 03:51:59 i can't paste it here Jun 27 03:52:03 yeah Jun 27 03:52:04 you can Jun 27 03:52:09 i'd get fucking banned Jun 27 03:52:10 because it's out == no moar nda Jun 27 03:52:19 i mean it leaked Jun 27 03:52:26 oh Jun 27 03:52:54 well that's not OUT Jun 27 03:54:04 he means "out" Jun 27 03:54:10 haha Jun 27 03:54:29 he means "leaked" Jun 27 03:54:42 no that's just leaked Jun 27 03:54:54 "out" = leaked != out Jun 27 03:54:55 haha Jun 27 03:55:18 verb out is different Jun 27 03:55:36 what are playing scrabble here Jun 27 03:55:46 rwhitby: actually: I'm probably not grepping for the right thing: Jun 27 03:55:48 bclancy84@castle:~$ sudo luna-send -n 1 palm://org.webosinternals.shell/runCmd '{"cmd":"ls"}' Jun 27 03:55:50 Password: Jun 27 03:55:51 Sorry, try again. Jun 27 03:55:53 Password: Jun 27 03:55:55 ** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, {"returnValue":"Apps\nCarrierNetworkSettings.db3\nattachments\nbrowser\ndbdata\ndownloadhis Jun 27 03:55:56 tory.db\nemails\nextractfs\nim-avatars\nmediadb.db3\npalm-carriernetworksettings-info\nperfdata.txt\nslidercount\ntemp_html_email\n" Jun 27 03:55:58 } Jun 27 03:56:00 bclancy84@castle:~$ ps -efwwww | grep -i luna | grep -i helper Jun 27 03:56:01 bclancy84@castle:~$ Jun 27 03:56:03 bclancy84@castle:~$ Jun 27 03:56:13 different than preposition Jun 27 03:56:26 (11:51:18 PM) MTW: the sdk is now out Jun 27 03:56:26 (11:51:24 PM) MTW: and by that i mean "out" Jun 27 03:56:31 bclancy: so the test is to reboot, and then try the commander immediately without doing a luna-send at all Jun 27 03:56:32 he said it.. he means "out" Jun 27 03:56:36 I know what he meant Jun 27 03:56:41 no point it arguing haha Jun 27 03:56:57 hello Jun 27 03:57:16 crash got a link? Jun 27 03:57:18 I bet they were sitting around in a meeting room today at palm Jun 27 03:57:22 rwhitby: I don't yet know how to install the commander Jun 27 03:57:30 FYI, anyone who pastes a link to an SDK here before Palm officially releases it will be banned. simple as that. Jun 27 03:57:35 "well... I wonder if we should "release" the SDK so they can play with it.. and by that I mean leak" Jun 27 03:57:38 has anyone figured out how to use the accelerometer Jun 27 03:57:44 clarify got a link to an article Jun 27 03:58:50 has anyone figured out how to use the accelerometer Jun 27 03:59:04 opps didnt mean to put that twice Jun 27 03:59:05 remember that this channel is publicly logged, and Palm legal is very likely to follow up with Freenode if someone here blatantly redistributes copyrighted material like the still-under-NDA SDK. Jun 27 03:59:50 plus we are better than the sdk =p Jun 27 04:00:56 ok, now that the heavy stuff is out of the way, where does Palm install add-on applictations under /var - I'm working on an ipkg for the Commander app. Jun 27 04:01:08 does this work with the palm pre Jun 27 04:01:09 http://www.h2oaudio.com/waterproof_armbands_and_cases.php#WaterproofArmbandWA1 Jun 27 04:01:16 a waterproof swimming case Jun 27 04:01:28 Sorry I am new to this channel are my messages being posted? Jun 27 04:01:29 or is their a swimming case for the palm pre so i can go swimming with it Jun 27 04:01:38 yes parisis Jun 27 04:02:01 cool thanks Jun 27 04:02:36 I wouldn't do that if the case came with a $500 guarantee that it would not leak Jun 27 04:02:40 that's some scary stuff Jun 27 04:02:58 *even if Jun 27 04:03:05 So no-one with a Pre here know where Palm installs add-on apps under /var? Jun 27 04:03:17 one sec rw Jun 27 04:03:22 thx Jun 27 04:04:04 anyone got an irc client running on the pre, maybe nIrc? Jun 27 04:04:23 irssi, bitchx, ... all in optwar Jun 27 04:04:24 e Jun 27 04:04:31 ohh are they? nice Jun 27 04:04:41 : /var/usr/palm/applications/ i do believe Jun 27 04:04:45 is there a way to just copy an app (like commander) onto a rooted Pre (ie: manually install it)? Jun 27 04:05:01 is this documented somewhere? Jun 27 04:05:01 just drop it into the app folder Jun 27 04:05:05 bclancy: yep, you can even check it out directly from our repository with git on the Pre Jun 27 04:05:08 use ipkg Jun 27 04:05:31 predev.wikidot.com shows how you can setup a directory in the media/internal so you can more easly drop them in Jun 27 04:05:47 i would bet with a symlink Jun 27 04:06:18 sftp + winscp is an amazing combo for soure management Jun 27 04:06:34 usb to /media/intneral Jun 27 04:06:39 opie_: running git and quilt on the Pre is cooler ;-) Jun 27 04:06:42 root in and ipkg install Jun 27 04:06:58 source, anyways i've found that to be the most efficient setup for testing code changes, along with a rescan {} Jun 27 04:07:17 before with a usb mount Jun 27 04:07:27 the pre closes the radio so no putty Jun 27 04:07:33 err ssh, whatever Jun 27 04:07:47 tharris: thx for the path Jun 27 04:08:00 sorry, I'm burning out; Is the app filed in /var/usr/palm/applications/ or somewhere else? Jun 27 04:08:15 bclancy: what app? Jun 27 04:08:32 rw any tiem Jun 27 04:08:36 time* Jun 27 04:09:02 I wold to manually drop allications somwehere on a rooted pre to install them Jun 27 04:09:07 was told Jun 27 04:09:49 bclancy: http://predev.wikidot.com/modify-stock-app-while-keeping-original Jun 27 04:09:55 that would work but i would look at the predev wiki site on modifying stock apps to make your own folder Jun 27 04:10:07 yes that link Jun 27 04:10:12 all the information what you are trying to do should be answered by that article Jun 27 04:10:13 ok Jun 27 04:10:41 commander ipkg is close now ... Jun 27 04:10:51 I am guessing that since i never got a response nobody knows about the accelerometer Jun 27 04:10:54 keep it going, i need slee Jun 27 04:10:55 p Jun 27 04:10:58 if you're unclear about anything i'd be happy to help Jun 27 04:11:14 unsure, maybe Jun 27 04:13:51 what's commander app? Jun 27 04:14:27 lol check this line of code Jun 27 04:14:35 "QDLogger.log("getDefaultEmergencyNumber: ugh, defaulting to AMERICA, F*** YEAH (911)"" Jun 27 04:14:55 so uh... mojo leak? Jun 27 04:14:58 LOL, hilarious Jun 27 04:15:53 commander ipkg is ready for testing Jun 27 04:15:55 you guys, if you want a cheap charging solution, go to monoprice and buy a black 1000mAh wall power to usb female converter for $1.80 and a 6 ft A to Micro 5 pin USB cable for $2.47.. bam you have instant travel charge and sync for less than $5 :) MonoPrice part numbers 3540 and 4868 Jun 27 04:16:06 boooo Jun 27 04:16:40 crashx- I was looking at those earlier today but every one they had seemed to have some issues Jun 27 04:16:44 djwhitey: unless it's downloadable from an official palm site, we can't link to it from here Jun 27 04:17:01 this channel is up and up Jun 27 04:17:05 like the black wall charger there was only outputting ~550mA (according to one guy in the comments at least) Jun 27 04:17:11 * opie_ straightens his tie Jun 27 04:17:16 understandable... just saw a tweet by @prethinking about it... Jun 27 04:17:21 sudo ipkg-opt install http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/blobs/raw/786c664756ebed050e40ed408d53f285e6227aa5/org.webosinternals.commander/org.webosinternals.commander-0.1_all.ipk Jun 27 04:17:29 rwhitby: commander? Jun 27 04:17:30 bclancy: try that one Jun 27 04:17:37 opie_: run shell commands from gui Jun 27 04:17:41 OJ Jun 27 04:17:42 nice one Jun 27 04:17:49 OK Jun 27 04:17:54 cphelps and Rick wrote it, I just packaged it. Jun 27 04:17:55 bsiegel: hmm yea I see the reviews are saying they are putting out more like 550 mah.. Jun 27 04:18:36 well there has to be a good one out there somewhere that approaches 1000mAh.. this $20+ charger crap is ridiculous Jun 27 04:18:49 rwhitby: are you going to package it as an install-by-email as well? Jun 27 04:19:37 crashx-: yeah I would think so, just not at monoprice. The microusb cables are great though Jun 27 04:20:07 bsiegel: haven't decided yet. Jun 27 04:20:24 Anyone had any success with getting any other protocols for IM running? Jun 27 04:20:37 do we have a better name for those btw? Jun 27 04:20:37 there's an ethical issue of using an inherently insecure mechanism when a perfectly good secure one is available. Jun 27 04:20:59 but it's MIT licensed, so anyone is free to repackage and redistribute as they please. Jun 27 04:21:00 rwhitby: so after runnning the ipkg command, I was hoping to see an app on the launcher page, but didn't. There must be more steps Jun 27 04:21:14 bclancy: easiest is to reboot. Jun 27 04:21:22 we'll put a rescan in the postinst in the next release. Jun 27 04:21:27 ok Jun 27 04:21:53 yeah, rescan good call Jun 27 04:22:27 that's what the rescan you were talking about earlier is for - good Jun 27 04:22:37 yes Jun 27 04:22:40 what was that rescan command ? Jun 27 04:24:25 sudo luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {} Jun 27 04:24:37 That works instead of having to kill lunasysmgr? Jun 27 04:24:44 seems to for me Jun 27 04:24:50 awesome Jun 27 04:24:51 it *can* Jun 27 04:25:12 for simple js apps it seems to work great =/ Jun 27 04:25:46 hrm :( Jun 27 04:29:50 rwhitby: my eyes can't read screen output very well, but ls seems to show stuff, ps -efwwww didn't seem to show several lines like I expected Jun 27 04:30:05 evertyhign sez 'failed.' Jun 27 04:30:13 now rebooting a 2nd time to make sure it;s there after e2nd reboot Jun 27 04:31:33 d3x0r: do you have the service installed? Jun 27 04:31:47 hmm - guess I'll put the service in as a DEPENDS Jun 27 04:31:56 night Jun 27 04:32:16 rwhitby: can you link us to the service as well? Jun 27 04:33:49 go to http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications, click on source tree, then org.webosinternals.services, then the ipkg file, then grab the URL for the raw blob. Jun 27 04:33:51 which service? Jun 27 04:34:03 (the URL will change as we update different versions) Jun 27 04:34:33 sudo ipkg-opt install http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/blobs/raw/786c664756ebed050e40ed408d53f285e6227aa5/org.webosinternals.services/org.webosinternals.services-0.2_all.ipk Jun 27 04:35:11 ps command worked too (after reboot) - nice work - need better contrasting colors to be able to read the output though! Jun 27 04:35:30 have a chat to the authors for that. Jun 27 04:35:54 installing tbe new one now Jun 27 04:37:34 how do do pscp without sftp ? Jun 27 04:38:00 n/m Jun 27 04:38:02 d3x0r: use -scp tag Jun 27 04:38:47 thx was just gonna install sftp Jun 27 04:40:38 looks awesome :) Jun 27 04:40:50 deleting commander from the launcher does not seem to work (or maybe user error since I never deleted an app before) Jun 27 04:42:05 rwhitby: could the rescan be interfering with the delete from gui launcher? Jun 27 04:42:36 I guess I can prove that by installing 0.1 again Jun 27 04:42:47 does rescan help install service? Jun 27 04:42:52 no Jun 27 04:42:58 thought that might be Jun 27 04:43:56 good start Jun 27 04:44:14 is there a log anywhere on teh phone of how Palm configured certain packages? Jun 27 04:45:23 yes for the kernel Jun 27 04:50:08 rwhitby: OK, the Commander app does not delete using the orange-tap method from the launcher screen - can you report that back to the devs? Jun 27 04:50:46 bclancy: you can do that here. cphelps and Rick_ Jun 27 04:51:27 cphelps and Rick_: two things about your very nice commander app: Jun 27 04:51:54 yeah doesn't work to slide it off the screen either Jun 27 04:52:05 1) I need higher contrast screen colors to read the output Jun 27 04:52:23 2) The delete from the launcher does not work Jun 27 04:53:03 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/blobs/master/org.webosinternals.commander/appinfo.json seems correct Jun 27 04:53:05 2 3/8) the help menu does nothing (but you probably already knew thatO Jun 27 04:53:54 Nice.. Banshee seems to be working nicely for syncing on linux Jun 27 04:53:56 all good stuff. don't forget it's just a proof of concept at the moment, so anyone else who wants to pitch in and send it patches are welcome Jun 27 04:54:03 Commander is by far my favorite app so far@ Jun 27 04:54:34 I can submit a better icon :p Jun 27 04:58:06 now I wouldn't have to ssh to isntall stuff Jun 27 04:58:30 why can't Palm just release the SDK :( Jun 27 04:58:41 would make this all easier (but less fun :P) Jun 27 04:58:43 well not exactly d3x0r, since I dont think it maintains state Jun 27 04:59:19 does anyone know if the email-link-to-app trick works in the Pre SDK Emulator? I don't have a pre, but I want to develop (homebrew) apps. Jun 27 04:59:51 bsiegel: he may be abled to run ipkg-opt install from commander Jun 27 05:00:13 Xuzz: anyone with the emulator is under tight NDA Jun 27 05:00:44 well, not *legit* with the emulator :( Jun 27 05:00:56 true true Jun 27 05:01:08 Just can't, for example, CD to another directory yet Jun 27 05:01:16 BTW, we know that the the rough cuts book does not even talk about services like this, so we're way ahead of the emulator here thanks to ShinAli and PreGame Jun 27 05:01:19 couldn't just rip the mojo.js from the phone and host to any browser? Jun 27 05:01:57 cd /tmp; echo >a Jun 27 05:02:00 rwhitby: I just want to try out the homebrew apps! (but no pre as I'm under contract with AT&T) Jun 27 05:02:09 d3x0r: unfortunately CD fails Jun 27 05:02:13 oh Jun 27 05:03:05 you guys can't get mojo.js off the pre still? I thought you were able to run pre apps in PC browsers? Jun 27 05:03:07 I'd have to build python to get webshell on the phone? Jun 27 05:03:40 Xuzz: kind of, it msotly works but all service calls will fail obviously Jun 27 05:03:53 works well for UI prototyping Jun 27 05:04:14 if there was a graphical mojo IDE that would be awesome Jun 27 05:04:31 design with a drag+drop then write the code to tie it together Jun 27 05:04:37 kinda like the old Palm OS days Jun 27 05:06:15 Do we have any git merge experts in the channel? Jun 27 05:08:28 sounds like crickets rwhitby :/ Jun 27 05:09:01 * rwhitby reads http://predev.wikidot.com/update-service-trace Jun 27 05:12:36 good night all Jun 27 05:13:36 hi Jun 27 05:13:38 long time no see Jun 27 05:18:30 hi Jun 27 05:18:36 can you reboot the pre from the keyboard? Jun 27 05:18:44 anyone that know's what they are doing here? in regards to ARM, the pre proc, etc. Jun 27 05:18:49 need smth to be tested Jun 27 05:19:07 but do not have time to teach if you don't know what you are doing Jun 27 05:20:17 chron: maybe, what you need Jun 27 05:21:50 chron: yes, but I don't have a Pre :-( Jun 27 05:22:51 destinal: ORG + SYM + R Jun 27 05:23:01 I'm a computer engineer - I've written a bit of arm assembly in my day, but I dunno exactly what sort of experience you are hoping for Jun 27 05:23:07 djwhitey: thanks Jun 27 05:23:13 np Jun 27 05:23:26 bsiegel: I want to dump bootrom, but don't have a pre Jun 27 05:23:41 i can probably do the bootie patches tomorrow, and try to guide thru it as much as i can Jun 27 05:23:46 my plan is this: Jun 27 05:23:52 1. apply some bootie patches Jun 27 05:24:13 2.. have you send my patched bootie and use "go" to boot it, so there is no risk of brickage Jun 27 05:24:26 for those that have the rough cuts book electronic version, is it only viewable online, or is it something I can download? Jun 27 05:24:43 3. i will patch a command to allow unsigned code exec, so will give u some code to disable mmu, then to hexdump 0x0 via usb Jun 27 05:24:45 that sound ok? Jun 27 05:24:51 SirWill: it's online and pdf Jun 27 05:25:39 That seems reasonable. What changes are you planning to make to bootie? I havent investigated it yet myself. Jun 27 05:26:44 just to patch a command like cpurev to instead execute custom cocde Jun 27 05:26:58 the issue with "go" is that it shuts down hardware shit that i need to get bootrom hexdumped Jun 27 05:27:04 ahh, I see. Jun 27 05:27:26 i already know it exists, i already know its there and everytihng. i have bits and pieces of info on it, but not yet a full dump of the code Jun 27 05:30:36 destinal, thank you. I can put it on my Kindle hopefully then. Jun 27 05:46:37 anyway did the "bookmarking mediaplayer" mod? Jun 27 05:52:34 never mind, figured it out, but its a bit unlcear as to what to do for "middle of nextSong function" Jun 27 05:59:13 wtf Jun 27 05:59:21 has anyone here looked into the pre usb protocol Jun 27 05:59:23 (for recovery) Jun 27 05:59:43 the DFU protocol looks like it's the exact same as the iPhone one :o Jun 27 05:59:50 has anyone looked over the leaked mojo? Jun 27 05:59:52 Bootie, not sure about, will look into tho Jun 27 06:00:04 binarytech_home: nothing useful tbh Jun 27 06:00:15 if the docs from their internal wiki were leaked, that would be useful x) Jun 27 06:00:20 but not just the leaked sdk Jun 27 06:00:32 i don't think ppl are supposed to talk about that here anyway, are they? Jun 27 06:00:38 at least its got the emulator i'm sure that is handy Jun 27 06:00:47 might be right sorry Jun 27 06:02:09 I wish they'd just release the real thing without an NDA :-( Jun 27 06:03:01 no NDA would be nice. Of course the SDK and online documentation would be nice too Jun 27 06:04:42 if it has an NDA attached, it effectively doesn't exist. Jun 27 06:06:21 chron: dfu is a standard isn't it? Jun 27 06:06:50 the SDK is pointless here anyway, for anything but standard mojo app creation Jun 27 06:06:54 openmoko used dfu on their devices Jun 27 06:06:54 and you guys can already do that Jun 27 06:06:59 so the SDK isn't really needed Jun 27 06:07:08 I BET THE PRE IS AN iPHONE IN DISGUISE! Jun 27 06:07:09 lol Jun 27 06:07:55 gta01 at least Jun 27 06:08:37 tmzt: both used it. gta02 changed to Qi later Jun 27 06:08:54 * rwhitby has 2 broken gta01, 1 broken gta02 and 1 good gta02. Jun 27 06:09:18 gta02 was uboot I thought? Jun 27 06:09:24 oh Jun 27 06:09:34 so uboot used dfu on it Jun 27 06:09:57 both gta01 and gta02 started with u-boot. Jun 27 06:10:01 gta02 got Qi later Jun 27 06:10:36 yeah Jun 27 06:26:58 Hi all Jun 27 06:29:08 So I'm trying to get thttpd work on my pre, I'm able to get to the dummy index.html from the pre's web browser, but not from my laptop. Any ideas? Jun 27 06:29:15 so, i tried this thing: http://predev.wikidot.com/bookmarking-mediaplayer Jun 27 06:29:37 but it isnt showing me the red marker and it actually made my music player much less responsive Jun 27 06:31:20 Smashman: i think you should only be able to get to ajaxPHPterm from the pre and not from outside of it... Jun 27 06:32:29 have anyone else had the same thing with the bookmarking thing? Jun 27 06:32:53 I hadn't even seen the bookmarking article before, I thought I was on top of all of it... Jun 27 06:33:07 Smashman: its like from today, lol Jun 27 06:33:30 Smashman: last edit 11 hours ago Jun 27 06:33:44 probably created not too long before hand Jun 27 06:34:00 well, it's a web server, it should be able to be connected to, just like ssh Jun 27 06:34:09 (speaking about my issue) Jun 27 06:34:33 Smashman: right, but it runs on localhost, so, i think thats why you cant access it from outside Jun 27 06:35:05 and not sure if substituting the ip of the device for 127.0.0.1 is supposed to work Jun 27 06:35:26 but dont take my word for it, definitely not an expert in this stuff Jun 27 06:35:40 in fact, i should probably be sleeping right... (2:30am here...) Jun 27 06:36:22 well, i've set up a dynamic dns for it, and i can call the name.dyndns.com/index.html from the pre and it works, but from the laptop it doesn't Jun 27 06:36:35 When I'm connected over USB and using the shell, where should I copy files to if I want to get them when the phone is in usb drive mode? I know I've seen the answer to that here, but I can't find it. Jun 27 06:36:39 gkatsev: you have to have it listen on the right device and make sure iptables will let traffic thru Jun 27 06:36:45 I think i've missed some config with thttpd or outside connections that is blocking the transfer Jun 27 06:37:05 er Smashman ^ Jun 27 06:37:12 soundwave: /media/internal Jun 27 06:37:14 Smashman: are you doing it over wifi or evdo? because i believe you need some extra stuff if you do it over evdo Jun 27 06:37:47 the stupid wiki won't let me apply to be able to edit Jun 27 06:37:56 Smashman: Thanks! Jun 27 06:38:29 Smashman: hey, exactly what you need: http://predev.wikidot.com/ddns-update but i guess that might be what you used, right Jun 27 06:38:32 ? Jun 27 06:38:34 I've been trying with everything. The dynamic dns is with evdo, it works perfectly (as in connecting via ssh), it's just not serving the index.html Jun 27 06:39:20 seigex: how can we make it easier for people to spot that they just have to ask someone with the password to get it? Jun 27 06:39:51 (so they don't have to get angry at a poor defenseless wiki that's just trying to keep out spammers and defacers) Jun 27 06:40:25 lol Jun 27 06:40:40 Robi-: when you say i have to have 'it' listen, do you mean the thttpd server or the pre? Jun 27 06:40:43 yeah but asking for passwords are a pita :) Jun 27 06:41:02 yeah, so is reverting spam on a wiki ... Jun 27 06:41:04 And I think i had added ppp0 on port 80 to let traffic through Jun 27 06:41:35 not disagreeing with ya.. that was my way of asking for the pw .. by bitching Jun 27 06:42:05 rwhitby: pre-venting :D Jun 27 06:42:25 www.instantrimshot.com Jun 27 06:42:50 someone should make an instant rimshot/cricket/sad trombone app, lol Jun 27 06:43:05 rwhitby, when will u know if the 8/5 meetup is solid? i'm tempted to ride up there from so cal on my MC Jun 27 06:43:21 hey Jun 27 06:43:27 nevermind u weren't on that one Jun 27 06:43:31 it was robi Jun 27 06:43:41 can anyone solve a basic problem? if i am connected to wifi, articles in help don't show up. if i turn off wifi it works fine though ;\ Jun 27 06:44:10 are you able to surf the net on wifi? Jun 27 06:44:13 yes Jun 27 06:44:22 and if you go to www.cmyip.com it'll show your wifi ip addr Jun 27 06:44:25 not ur sprint one Jun 27 06:44:44 yep, shows my real ip Jun 27 06:44:48 holy crap this browser is fast Jun 27 06:44:53 much faster than my old iphone 3g Jun 27 06:45:04 u spoke the forbidden name Jun 27 06:45:08 lol Jun 27 06:45:22 not sure.. i haven't used help before but i assume its just another webkit page Jun 27 06:45:30 lemme try Jun 27 06:45:37 * rwhitby surmises how easy it would be to put some malware in a "leaked" SDK file and create a nice botnet ... Jun 27 06:45:44 lol Jun 27 06:46:10 the real, clean sdk is out Jun 27 06:46:11 you were too late Jun 27 06:46:21 rwhitby, or just stream phone calls over the internet Jun 27 06:46:37 help works fine for me over wifi Jun 27 06:47:03 one thing i did notice.. i wrote an RSS feed app.. and when i first start the app after any sort of delay it doesn't download data Jun 27 06:47:08 then when i restart it the data's there Jun 27 06:47:16 i assume help is using ajax Jun 27 06:47:20 could be the same prob Jun 27 06:47:25 and now it works. lol Jun 27 06:47:27 ffs Jun 27 06:47:32 right after i complain it starts working Jun 27 06:47:41 yeah its probably that same problem then Jun 27 06:47:52 i already told them on the sdk forum but they said i don't know what i'm talking about Jun 27 06:47:57 lol Jun 27 06:48:06 MTW: I hope someone has checked the md5sums ... Jun 27 06:48:14 do you honor thy nda? Jun 27 06:48:15 set up a party line Jun 27 06:48:37 so whats new from 6 hrs ago? Jun 27 06:48:45 the sdk leaked, publically Jun 27 06:48:47 the new one Jun 27 06:49:09 ok where to Jun 27 06:49:15 lol Jun 27 06:49:19 not helping people get leaked stuff, sorry Jun 27 06:49:23 i'm interested in the tool chains to compile the kernel Jun 27 06:49:36 everyone busy grabbing it i take it Jun 27 06:49:37 Robi-: check updated /topic Jun 27 06:50:15 ah, that's fine. Jun 27 06:50:18 * Robi- looks Jun 27 06:51:05 anyone know who's working on that? Jun 27 06:51:11 gonna reboot to linux brb Jun 27 06:51:27 i have yet to find the problem in my dialer and fix it Jun 27 06:51:54 other weirdness happening too.. emails only show subj Jun 27 06:52:49 how is a legit pre user meant to restore his phone Jun 27 06:52:53 get the leaked webos doctor? Jun 27 06:53:31 no, go to a sprint store Jun 27 06:54:01 MTW: doctor is not leaked Jun 27 06:54:09 you get it from an official palm website Jun 27 06:54:12 ah Jun 27 06:54:29 very different from this other thing that happened today Jun 27 06:55:02 i know that you are talking about Jun 27 06:55:06 you don't need to speak in code Jun 27 06:55:11 hm what's WebOS AppsBuilder v1.4.0.1 Jun 27 06:56:32 ah, bash is not much nicer Jun 27 06:57:51 also a vim with "set nocompatible" Jun 27 06:59:56 has anyone looked at the voice dialing thing? Jun 27 07:01:03 also, can i get pass to wiki? i want to edit the ajaxPHPterm link about the 'cd' command not working. Jun 27 07:01:30 it does work, as long as you make sure that the C isnt capitalized Jun 27 07:01:40 by typing in Cd Jun 27 07:01:55 the C will uncapitalize after pressing the backspace button Jun 27 07:09:25 So i added ppp0 to iptables in and rebooted, it doesn't seem to have worked. Here is the command: iptables -A INPUT -i ppp0 -p tcp -m tcp --dport 80 -j ACCEPT Jun 27 07:14:21 that will only allow over evdo Jun 27 07:14:29 drop the -i ppp0 to allow on all Jun 27 07:14:35 a few hours after buying a pre, i found my first issue Jun 27 07:14:39 well, more of a missing feature: Jun 27 07:14:43 i can't scrub through a song Jun 27 07:14:44 wow ircii is oldschool Jun 27 07:15:25 Not scrubbing is annoying. Jun 27 07:15:27 MTW: press and hold skip button will fast forward through it, but yes, there is no seek bar or anything Jun 27 07:17:01 Smashman, I tried for hours and hours to get incoming HTTP requests on port 80 over the Sprint connection...no dice. Wifi works fine. I believe it's something on Sprint's end, and after searching around on the internet, it seems other people have noted that Sprint does some filtering/blocking 'cause they don't want you hosting websites on the regular service plans Jun 27 07:17:19 yeah? Jun 27 07:18:05 I couldn't get it to work, despite trying numerous iptables port-opening things. It might work yet, but I don't know Jun 27 07:18:22 One thing I haven't tried is just using an alternate port...I'll fire up Putty and check that out Jun 27 07:19:23 I've been trying evdo/wifi/bluetooth, all work from the pre, but the laptop doesn't. Jun 27 07:19:40 Is there a faster way to reload the iptables than restarting the pre? Jun 27 07:20:30 Where are you running your iptables commands? Jun 27 07:20:39 in the terminal, or in a startup script? Jun 27 07:21:46 Terminal: they should take effect right away, startup script: you should just be able to run the script with "sh" rather than rebooting so it autoruns then Jun 27 07:21:47 in the terminal Jun 27 07:22:19 I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that when you run iptables commands, it takes effect immediately Jun 27 07:22:29 ok Jun 27 07:23:14 halelujah, web serving over wifi works now Jun 27 07:23:14 not sure if this is of any relevance... but the pre supports kanji :P Jun 27 07:23:19 in fact, I think that since the Pre lacks the iptables-save utility, you mmay have to enter the commands (for opening ports) again after a reboot (which is where a startup script comes into play) Jun 27 07:23:37 :D Jun 27 07:23:39 who is working on compiling new kernels for the pre Jun 27 07:24:07 searedice: the optware dropbear and openssh upstart scripts have good examples of that Jun 27 07:24:18 i just compiled my first kernel a couple months ago for school, don't know what I did but the genkernel took 8 minutes to build, I was glad Jun 27 07:24:25 Yep, that's where I copied from for my iptables script :P Jun 27 07:24:50 seigex: the history on the wiki page may well match a nick here Jun 27 07:26:05 quite the smartass tonight aren't we Jun 27 07:26:57 Ok, so my Dynamic DNS allows me to ssh via EVDO, but not get the served index.html. This is a Sprint blocked thing? Jun 27 07:27:46 pick a port other than 80 Jun 27 07:27:53 I'll give it a shot Jun 27 07:28:21 try 8080 Jun 27 07:28:30 something >1024 Jun 27 07:29:57 "sudo !!" is awesome. Jun 27 07:30:29 seigex: not trying to be a smartass - I'm assuming you were already looking at the kernel wiki page Jun 27 07:30:40 I didn't have it handy. Jun 27 07:31:48 how do you guys restart your pres? Jun 27 07:31:56 nah i'm in command line linux right now the wiki shows up pretty bad in links ... i was hoping someone in the channel right now would know .. oh well Jun 27 07:32:05 devide managment >>restart options Jun 27 07:32:06 gkatsev, in ssh u can do /sbin/reboot Jun 27 07:32:09 or that Jun 27 07:32:14 seigex: ok, I'll find it for you Jun 27 07:32:20 rwhitby, its cool i'll load up x Jun 27 07:32:28 seigex: cool! good to know Jun 27 07:32:56 seigex: tonycpsu is the guy Jun 27 07:33:10 i used to do "press hold power button, turn phone off, turn phone on" then discovered "reset options->restart" like 10 minutes ago... Jun 27 07:33:21 seigex: eno also set up optware to build modules for the existing Pre kernel Jun 27 07:33:36 I set up bash so that i'd have "reboot" Jun 27 07:33:49 i wonder if they have a toolchain available to cross compile Jun 27 07:33:52 yay i fixed my phone app Jun 27 07:33:58 i should upload my vimrc up to my phone Jun 27 07:34:03 although i gave gcc on here so i might just be able to install the kernel source.. patch it and do it all on the pre Jun 27 07:34:12 at 600mhz should only take 5 or 6 hours :) Jun 27 07:34:36 seigex: "ipkg-opt install optware-devel" I think Jun 27 07:35:13 for cross-compile, we use codesourcery toolchain: http://trac.nslu2-linux.org/optware/browser/trunk/platforms/toolchain-cs08q1armel.mk Jun 27 07:35:21 ah tahts what i was looking for Jun 27 07:35:42 sweet, ignore my previous comment about the bookmarks not working, i had a type... Jun 27 07:35:57 o Jun 27 07:36:01 hah Jun 27 07:36:02 seigex: kernel modules build is in http://trac.nslu2-linux.org/optware/browser/trunk/sources/kernel-modules/pre Jun 27 07:38:13 and the built kernel modules are in http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/pre/cross/unstable/ Jun 27 07:38:53 seigex: since I don't have a Pre, I haven't been able to test any of those, nor test a custom kernel compile. Jun 27 07:38:57 there we go, web server up and running via EVDO Jun 27 07:39:19 i'm going to try a custom compile tonight... i'd like to get the usb hotplugging working Jun 27 07:39:27 too bad i have to work tomorrow :( Jun 27 07:39:32 Can someone share the pass to the wiki so I can contribute? Jun 27 07:39:46 done Jun 27 07:39:50 tyvm Jun 27 07:42:40 Smashman: port 8080? Putting your config info on the wiki? Jun 27 07:43:09 rwhitby: u try qemu yet? Jun 27 07:43:22 someone extracted the initrd Jun 27 07:43:30 Robi_: nope Jun 27 07:43:35 http://predev.wikidot.com/qemu-webos-emulation Jun 27 07:43:50 last I heard from bpadalino it wasn't working. Jun 27 07:44:06 I sure will. I used a lot of info from the Graphical Shell with ajaxPHPterm page Jun 27 07:44:26 rwhitby: not on OS X perhaps Jun 27 07:45:00 I'm assuming the SDK will be out soon with no NDA, so haven't bothered going down other avenues unless they've looked easy :-) Jun 27 07:45:12 searedice: my port was 2222, but i'm switching it to 8080 for the sake of conformity Jun 27 07:45:25 rwhitby: you're just being an ass* then ;] Jun 27 07:45:45 Smashman: only if it's tested to work Jun 27 07:47:33 Robi_: testing now Jun 27 07:47:34 SDk leaked? Jun 27 07:47:36 Robi_: a lazy ass*, yeah. Jun 27 07:47:45 downloading now Jun 27 07:47:49 ass*uming Jun 27 07:47:55 antonio3: check /topic please Jun 27 07:48:16 got ya Jun 27 07:48:23 hm where's the bits to stop the loud noise when dialing Jun 27 07:48:36 * rwhitby hopes this NDA stuff will be lifted soon ... Jun 27 07:50:00 * seigex is away. auto-away (10m) (ar/lp) Jun 27 07:51:11 google voice + pre = ? Jun 27 07:51:22 ? = still expirementing Jun 27 07:53:10 hmm Jun 27 07:53:30 rwhitby, no shit.. they said what 5 days ago now that it would be in a day or two Jun 27 07:53:49 rwhitby.. the NDA stuff that *you* agreed to? Jun 27 07:54:04 antonio3: nope, I've never even sighted the NDA Jun 27 07:54:16 and I haven't applied for the SDK, since I would not want to sign the NDA Jun 27 07:54:17 ok just checking :) Jun 27 07:55:01 well the team sent out an email that within the next day or two they woudl be releasing a new NDA with relaxed restrictions.. that was 5 days ago Jun 27 07:55:02 I'm assuming that the NDA would prevent me doing a lot of the things I'm doing with the webOS Doctor file that Palm published on their official web site. Jun 27 07:56:11 ur not bound by it if you're not part of the early access program Jun 27 07:56:51 right, but the only legal way you can get the SDK at the moment is by being part of that program, right? Jun 27 07:58:46 not sure what the legality would be for you to be in possession of it.. but they can't get you for being in violation of the nda, maybe for possession their intellectual property? Jun 27 07:59:06 lynx won't let me save a downloaded file damnit Jun 27 08:02:12 anywho Jun 27 08:03:09 is there a non sanctioned chat going on now anywhere? Jun 27 08:06:13 antonio3: on efnet Jun 27 08:06:48 seigex: yeah, being in possession is just the same as being in possession of an illegal copy of microsoft windows. Jun 27 08:07:23 i don't know if i'd go that far Jun 27 08:07:40 i could be wrong tho .. not a lawyer Jun 27 08:08:50 why would it be different? Jun 27 08:09:07 well i'd say that if you owned a pre.. i forgot you dont' Jun 27 08:09:34 seigex: I don't think owning a Pre gives you an automatic right to the SDK Jun 27 08:09:55 the sdk really only is some packaging tools and an emulator image Jun 27 08:10:02 sans the emulator image if you had a pre you wouldn't need Jun 27 08:10:19 only the commandline packing tools would be any different.. if you own a pre you have a right to the rom/kernel Jun 27 08:10:20 yes, but it's still a piece of copyrighted proprietary software. Jun 27 08:10:36 but you wouldn't need the commandline tools as you have ssh Jun 27 08:10:46 you copy everything over manually to do the install Jun 27 08:10:46 technically.. the only people that should leagly have it... are on a list at Palm Jun 27 08:10:53 seigex: have you read the Palm Software License agrement that comes with the Pre? Jun 27 08:10:56 I've read a scanned copy. Jun 27 08:11:18 everyone else now has illegally retrieved it Jun 27 08:11:34 and the license agreement you clicked through if you installed the doctor to reflash the Pre? Jun 27 08:12:03 antonio3: exactly (assuming that software licenses such as the ones Palm are using stand up in court) Jun 27 08:12:05 nah haven't used the doctor to reflash the pre.. but i have read the NDA.. a couple months ago Jun 27 08:12:08 and have forgotten it by now Jun 27 08:13:38 damnit my pre keeps going to sleep while i'm tarring the kernel Jun 27 08:13:55 anyway, let's hope Palm comes to their senses and just releases the thing without an NDA. Jun 27 08:14:18 it will be soon... Jun 27 08:21:35 ls Jun 27 08:21:42 * seigex is back. hi. ..(31m41s) Jun 27 08:26:34 Like Smashman, I just also got the Pre to serve a webpage over the ppp0 interface (I had wifi working a couple of days ago). Port 8080 works fine, 80 does not. Sprint almost certainly has some filtering stuff there :P Jun 27 08:27:19 Hmm - based on this blog posting from Palm (http://pdnblog.palm.com/2009/06/hello-to-our-new-developer-network-members/), I'm wondering if they are not planning to just keep extending the NDA period indefinitely as they add new members under the same (or a slighly loosed, but still not public) NDA ... Jun 27 08:27:38 s/loosed/loosened/ Jun 27 08:28:33 they put out an email to all of us in the program that it will be loosening soon and it will be disappearing once they go public Jun 27 08:28:58 i think the tiemframe was made public by someone i won't speak it tho so i don't violate the nda Jun 27 08:29:42 Chug blogged end of summer (assuming northern hemispere summer there) Jun 27 08:30:14 heh I sure hope they don't mean southern-hemisphere summer :P Jun 27 08:30:26 battery died..how long does this thing take to go from 0% to being back on Jun 27 08:30:36 its at the battery screen atm Jun 27 08:30:51 it can take ~15 minutes Jun 27 08:31:09 heh: http://foxpre.ath.cx:8080/ Jun 27 08:31:16 christ Jun 27 08:31:18 slow ass charge Jun 27 08:31:19 depends on if you're usb plugged or power outlet as well Jun 27 08:31:40 Is the AC adapter faster than USB? Jun 27 08:32:03 power outlet Jun 27 08:32:19 yep, power has more power Jun 27 08:32:51 My phone isn't on EVDO atm, is there a way to kick it in gear? Jun 27 08:33:16 Turn off wifi? Other than that, I'm not sure Jun 27 08:34:14 searedice: Your link worked Jun 27 08:35:59 BTW, I used lighttpd....you used thttpd? Jun 27 08:36:42 yeah, i used thttpd, after installing and removing lighttpd Jun 27 08:37:37 Is there an advantage to thttpd? I just use Apache on my real server machines...never looked beyond that until playing with the Pre Jun 27 08:38:10 mem footprint Jun 27 08:38:31 same, I've only used apache before today. lighttpd and thttpd seem pretty close to the same Jun 27 08:39:01 * seigex is away. auto-away (10m) (ar/lp) Jun 27 08:39:11 whitby, optware-devel failed at groff Jun 27 08:39:12 yeah, those two are pretty close, and both are way smaller than apache (which is also available in optware) Jun 27 08:39:36 seigex: hmm - can you ping eno about that - he does 95% of all optware work at the moment. Jun 27 08:39:59 aight Jun 27 08:40:12 seigex: you can also use some ipkg-opt -force-* flags to get around it Jun 27 08:41:39 ok, I just pushed version 0.3 of the shell service, which should mount the rootfs rw before install and ro again afterwards. Jun 27 08:42:33 oh Jun 27 08:42:35 you know why it failed Jun 27 08:42:40 no space left on device Jun 27 08:42:48 ouch Jun 27 08:43:03 weird Jun 27 08:43:11 seigex: can you report what effect that has on the Pre operation? Jun 27 08:43:18 (full /var partition) Jun 27 08:43:20 nah its just in the /opt dir Jun 27 08:43:21 at 100% Jun 27 08:43:35 yeah, /opt is in /var Jun 27 08:43:38 bind mount Jun 27 08:43:51 pre operation seems fine Jun 27 08:44:11 lemme play with it a bit more get back to u Jun 27 08:44:28 I'm out for 3 hours Jun 27 08:44:31 * rwhitby bbl Jun 27 10:41:25 whew, finally got it to root correctly Jun 27 10:41:34 was holding my breath for a bit there Jun 27 10:41:36 hmm Jun 27 10:41:48 well i converted /media/internal to ext2 Jun 27 10:42:11 now i'm compiling the usb-storage module to see if i can get some usb mass storage device support Jun 27 10:42:24 how do you mean Jun 27 10:42:36 to plug a thumbdrive into the usb port on the side Jun 27 10:42:42 and possibly other usb devices Jun 27 10:42:49 like webcams etc.. Jun 27 10:42:58 mice... keyboards Jun 27 10:43:07 you are a god then, a god indeed Jun 27 10:43:10 hah Jun 27 10:43:20 if you need some testers, id be willing to give my services Jun 27 10:43:29 thats the goal.. not familiar with the TI OMAP processors enough yet to know if i can get it to do what i want yet Jun 27 10:43:44 ah Jun 27 10:43:52 i'm hoping Jun 27 10:43:55 what i really want is to program a playlist editor Jun 27 10:43:57 keep ur fingers crossed Jun 27 10:44:05 i will Jun 27 10:44:31 u the only one around? Jun 27 10:44:39 looks like it Jun 27 10:44:39 i just logged in Jun 27 10:44:43 hey twolaver Jun 27 10:44:47 kew Jun 27 10:44:56 wrd...so i have a question about the cpu scaling Jun 27 10:45:10 cause i haven't found any answers anywhere else... Jun 27 10:45:21 but everytime i enable it, i loose evdo Jun 27 10:45:33 haven't played with it Jun 27 10:45:46 nice.. kernel modules compiling nicely so far Jun 27 10:46:16 root@castle:/media/internal/linux-2.6.24# make modules Jun 27 10:46:16 HOSTCC scripts/basic/fixdep Jun 27 10:46:16 HOSTCC scripts/basic/docproc Jun 27 10:46:16 HOSTCC scripts/kconfig/conf.o Jun 27 10:46:16 HOSTCC scripts/kconfig/kxgettext.o Jun 27 10:46:18 SHIPPED scripts/kconfig/zconf.tab.c Jun 27 10:46:31 sweet Jun 27 10:46:33 nice... Jun 27 10:46:34 err well config is anyways Jun 27 10:46:34 heh Jun 27 10:46:57 ok here we go Jun 27 10:47:11 got my fingers crossed Jun 27 10:47:19 hard to type like this Jun 27 10:47:26 how are you typing? Jun 27 10:47:28 oh Jun 27 10:47:29 hah Jun 27 10:47:39 its 3:45am takes me a min to get a joke Jun 27 10:47:54 5:47 here Jun 27 10:48:02 where at Jun 27 10:48:07 texas Jun 27 10:48:09 tejas Jun 27 10:48:10 hah Jun 27 10:48:11 i knew it Jun 27 10:48:12 what part Jun 27 10:48:16 new silicon vallye we calls it Jun 27 10:48:19 dallas Jun 27 10:48:26 valley* Jun 27 10:48:27 CC [M] drivers/scsi/scsi_wait_scan.o Jun 27 10:48:27 CC [M] drivers/usb/storage/scsiglue.o Jun 27 10:48:27 CC [M] drivers/usb/storage/protocol.o Jun 27 10:48:27 CC [M] drivers/usb/storage/transport.o Jun 27 10:48:27 CC [M] drivers/usb/storage/usb.o Jun 27 10:48:27 CC [M] drivers/usb/storage/initializers.o Jun 27 10:48:29 CC [M] drivers/usb/storage/debug.o Jun 27 10:48:31 LD [M] drivers/usb/storage/usb-storage.o Jun 27 10:48:33 woohoo Jun 27 10:48:38 nice.. Jun 27 10:48:40 i'm a texan myself Jun 27 10:48:42 grats! Jun 27 10:48:44 from fort sam Jun 27 10:48:51 you can officially say ding now Jun 27 10:48:54 ah Jun 27 10:48:57 err Jun 27 10:48:59 san antonio Jun 27 10:49:04 lol Jun 27 10:49:11 born at brook army medical center on fort sam Jun 27 10:50:07 very cool Jun 27 10:50:15 i think ive been by there Jun 27 10:50:22 omw to schlitterbahn a few years back Jun 27 10:50:28 or coming back from Jun 27 10:50:28 not gunna lie...i wish i knew what all u were posting actually meant seige Jun 27 10:50:31 one or the other Jun 27 10:50:39 lol Jun 27 10:50:43 hes working on a way Jun 27 10:50:47 to connect other things to the usb port Jun 27 10:50:50 like webcams Jun 27 10:50:54 and usb drives Jun 27 10:50:58 ooo...very cool Jun 27 10:51:02 probably with an adapter Jun 27 10:51:06 yes Jun 27 10:51:12 the possibilities are endless then Jun 27 10:51:17 because we'd have removable storage Jun 27 10:51:19 yeah no kidding Jun 27 10:51:32 and the ipod could suck our collective dicks for it Jun 27 10:51:37 hahahaha Jun 27 10:51:39 iphone i should say Jun 27 10:52:01 yeah i just started using linux about a week ago, moving away from osX and windows Jun 27 10:52:03 we're talking to them while switching out music sets from our jump drives all at the same time Jun 27 10:52:12 ah Jun 27 10:52:16 im still on windows Jun 27 10:52:26 i had mandrake way back when it was mandrake Jun 27 10:52:30 because i didnt wanna buy windows Jun 27 10:52:36 it was ok except having to program everything myself Jun 27 10:52:44 though that influenced my programming a lot Jun 27 10:52:45 yeah i had to dual boot so i could get windows back to do all this stuff for my pre and winmo phones Jun 27 10:52:49 so i guess it was all good Jun 27 10:52:56 touche Jun 27 10:52:58 ah Jun 27 10:53:09 so have u tried the cpu scaling? Jun 27 10:53:12 well my pre is officially rooted now Jun 27 10:53:18 just rooted it not 10 mins ago Jun 27 10:53:23 oh hahaha Jun 27 10:53:29 had problems with the driver Jun 27 10:53:29 welcome to the party :) Jun 27 10:53:34 i couldnt find where it was installed Jun 27 10:53:38 u n me both Jun 27 10:53:42 they didnt have it in the wiki yesterday Jun 27 10:53:46 i decided to try again today Jun 27 10:53:52 to find that it was changed to add info about that Jun 27 10:53:55 my jaw dropped Jun 27 10:53:57 and it worked Jun 27 10:54:04 nice Jun 27 10:54:05 i dont know if i can sleep now Jun 27 10:54:07 though i have to Jun 27 10:54:17 i just opened my new toy to the world of the infinite Jun 27 10:54:26 hahaha...i'm trying to stay up for the satisfaction of knowing my girls plane landed in london Jun 27 10:54:28 but i may have to wait to surf through the code Jun 27 10:54:34 ah Jun 27 10:54:36 i hear that Jun 27 10:54:42 business? Jun 27 10:54:45 or family matters Jun 27 10:54:57 business...its her layover to india Jun 27 10:55:02 ah Jun 27 10:55:06 i got so many indian friends Jun 27 10:55:13 i don't think i could stay up another 9 hours to watch that flight Jun 27 10:55:14 it actually scares me just a tad Jun 27 10:55:17 and they multiply Jun 27 10:55:20 well Jun 27 10:55:23 set urself an alert Jun 27 10:55:26 through the flight app Jun 27 10:55:42 it doesn't work on flights that don't have a start or stop point in the usa Jun 27 10:55:48 aaaaah Jun 27 10:55:51 damn Jun 27 10:55:59 i thought....o wait Jun 27 10:56:00 ok modules created Jun 27 10:56:02 that was from new york Jun 27 10:56:04 very cool Jun 27 10:56:07 modules installed Jun 27 10:56:08 lets test em Jun 27 10:56:10 yeah she was scared at first cause i couln't find her flight haha Jun 27 10:56:20 right on seige Jun 27 10:58:22 well i havent tried scaling yet Jun 27 10:58:31 but id be worried about my battery life Jun 27 10:58:36 at more powerful speeds Jun 27 10:58:54 well its supposed to improve battery life as it sits most of its time at a lower frequency Jun 27 10:58:54 but for heavier programs i think id be willing to sacrifice it Jun 27 10:59:03 aaaah Jun 27 10:59:16 and then ramps up to the higher freqs when necessary Jun 27 10:59:24 or the load increases Jun 27 10:59:33 yeah, like a normal pc Jun 27 10:59:46 exactly Jun 27 10:59:51 do you want to increase the speed? or decrease it Jun 27 10:59:59 or just be able to change it Jun 27 11:00:08 it enables it to change based on load Jun 27 11:00:09 using an app Jun 27 11:00:13 aaaaah Jun 27 11:00:14 i c Jun 27 11:00:20 so default that is not enabled? Jun 27 11:00:26 correct Jun 27 11:00:33 its set at one freq Jun 27 11:00:41 which is 500Mhz Jun 27 11:00:52 ah, thats probably what got me. it seems too logical to set it to "On" by default Jun 27 11:00:53 enable it and it spends most of its time at 125Mhz Jun 27 11:00:58 woah Jun 27 11:01:03 haha yeah Jun 27 11:01:05 ya i used to do that for my psp Jun 27 11:01:19 but like i was saying...everytime i enable it, i loose evdo connection Jun 27 11:01:20 when reading manga/comics it would be running at like 66mhz Jun 27 11:01:24 hmmmmm Jun 27 11:01:52 and it goes very very deep cause i didn't know what cause it the first time and spent probably 6 hours on the phone w/ sprint and palm Jun 27 11:01:56 with no luck Jun 27 11:02:55 hmmmmm have you played with any of the tweaks? Jun 27 11:03:09 like the up_threshold or anything? Jun 27 11:03:20 yeah i changed it all Jun 27 11:03:24 hmm Jun 27 11:03:38 i wonder what the minimum for evdo to work is Jun 27 11:03:53 something happens w/ my phone and the passwords for the network won't stick Jun 27 11:03:53 or if there is a setting to have it always on or something Jun 27 11:04:10 woah Jun 27 11:04:35 yeah...like i said, 6 hours worth of phone calls Jun 27 11:04:51 but NOONE else has said anything about that Jun 27 11:04:55 not to quote xkcd too much, if you are using a script, have you tried adding sudo? Jun 27 11:05:05 yep Jun 27 11:05:11 and the script works Jun 27 11:05:25 scaling works and is enabled w/ the script with or without sudo Jun 27 11:05:30 maybe there is a place that stores the network passwords Jun 27 11:05:33 i mean Jun 27 11:05:34 that changes Jun 27 11:05:38 based on the username Jun 27 11:05:45 and you need to change that in the account settings Jun 27 11:05:47 see and i thought that at first Jun 27 11:05:51 like you had to to unlock the acct Jun 27 11:06:13 but as soon as i delete the script and reboot evdo comes back Jun 27 11:07:35 hmm Jun 27 11:07:44 but the script is running through the login account you made Jun 27 11:07:45 to root the pre Jun 27 11:07:49 and not the root itself Jun 27 11:08:02 im thinking that somewhere tied to the root account is the network info Jun 27 11:08:10 and you have to add that to the new user Jun 27 11:08:24 so it can connect as if it were the root Jun 27 11:09:26 well, even if i create the script via root access Jun 27 11:09:44 and root has the only privledges it still does the same thing Jun 27 11:09:49 ah Jun 27 11:09:50 hmmm Jun 27 11:10:04 weird i know... Jun 27 11:10:24 have you tried setting up a ddns on the pre? Jun 27 11:10:53 i gave up and started using the other overclocking script that monitors and changes voltage and what not...it works just fine Jun 27 11:11:01 no i never got that far Jun 27 11:11:12 http://predev.wikidot.com/ddns-update Jun 27 11:11:33 it only runs when the ip address of your pre changes Jun 27 11:11:42 so im thinking that normally its always running or something Jun 27 11:11:47 but is turned off with scaling Jun 27 11:11:55 which might not happen with the upgraded one Jun 27 11:17:36 damn now my wifi stopped working Jun 27 11:17:37 sigh Jun 27 11:17:54 lol it won't turn on anymore Jun 27 11:18:10 ouch Jun 27 11:18:22 well, thats what the unbricker is thankfully for Jun 27 11:18:25 assuming you can still use it Jun 27 11:18:44 well, i gotta at least try and get to sleep Jun 27 11:18:57 towlaver: good luck with ur scaling, hope you figure it out Jun 27 11:19:05 seige: hope ur phone isnt bricked! Jun 27 11:19:07 right on man, thanks Jun 27 11:20:34 so i take it no luck w/ this attempt seige? Jun 27 11:20:43 that was a dumb question Jun 27 11:20:45 nvm Jun 27 11:22:27 of course Jun 27 11:22:31 its not Jun 27 11:22:38 i just have to hook to the usb port and reroot it Jun 27 11:22:43 still working on it Jun 27 11:22:43 :) Jun 27 11:27:25 ah...i wish i could offer some help...but about all i have now is some half assed moral support Jun 27 11:28:52 u have a pre? Jun 27 11:33:54 i do have a pre yes Jun 27 11:41:14 aight guys, i'm out...gotta get some sleep Jun 27 12:17:12 aight Jun 27 13:30:03 sudo ipkg-opt install http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/blobs/raw/65af636221be2b5735e12fc0265a2f5e4d9300af/org.webosinternals.services/org.webosinternals.services-0.4_all.ipk Jun 27 13:30:20 (now starts the service immediately after installation, no need to reboot) Jun 27 13:30:51 sudo ipkg-opt install http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/blobs/raw/4422e395c258eea04a16739b3efdfa4927eb9afa/org.webosinternals.commander/org.webosinternals.commander-0.2_all.ipk Jun 27 13:31:03 (now depends on org.webosinternals.services) Jun 27 14:20:24 hey everybody Jun 27 14:20:30 who's the modding going today? Jun 27 14:22:04 going pretty good .. installing services is now easy to do .. Jun 27 14:22:09 i'm a little confused on the camera mod. fr the timer i mean Jun 27 14:22:15 and the Commander application is easy to install too Jun 27 14:22:16 definately is Jun 27 14:22:50 i modified and patche all files, but no button appears in camera and no timer action. Jun 27 14:22:56 you were the first comment since I joined the channel. I think most people except for the die hards are sleeping Jun 27 14:22:57 i need somebody good with syntax Jun 27 14:23:36 kaerey -- really??? it's 10:30am?? Jun 27 14:24:13 for you Jun 27 14:24:15 can anybody help me with this if i pastebin the code? Jun 27 14:24:17 lol Jun 27 14:24:21 I know rwhittby is in AU Jun 27 14:24:24 where you at? Jun 27 14:24:26 I'll look at it Jun 27 14:24:28 I'm in colorado. Jun 27 14:24:33 8:30 here Jun 27 14:24:39 cool, brb. I'll include all 4 files Jun 27 14:24:47 that is when i wake up, lol Jun 27 14:26:42 rootedpre: the "regulars" were up all night hacking Pres you see.. they probably went to bed only a couple of hours ago ;) Jun 27 14:26:57 lmao i did Jun 27 14:26:59 4am Jun 27 14:27:05 lol true. Jun 27 14:27:10 http://webos.pastebin.com/m2e92ca12 -- camera.css Jun 27 14:28:23 http://webos.pastebin.com/m6baf483e -- camera-control.js Jun 27 14:30:00 anything wrong with those so far?? Jun 27 14:30:20 i may have found something wrong with my capture-asistant.js file Jun 27 14:30:22 brb Jun 27 14:43:57 testing now Jun 27 14:44:18 kaerey -- did you see anything wrong with the first 2 files? Jun 27 14:44:47 exit Jun 27 14:44:57 oops, wrong window, lol Jun 27 14:46:41 can you use periods in css naming conventions? Jun 27 14:46:43 .capture-button.recording Jun 27 14:47:01 or did you mean .capture-button-recording or .capture-button:recording ? Jun 27 14:48:31 i never even touched that part of the code. Jun 27 14:48:48 oh Jun 27 14:48:58 trying to perform changes in code from http://predev.wikidot.com/camera-modifications-additions Jun 27 14:49:07 I don't know CSS well, I was just pointing out something that looked different from the rest of the naming conventions Jun 27 14:49:14 this is really annoying me Jun 27 14:49:16 i hear ya Jun 27 14:50:04 i have a working button on the camera which is shifted to the left, I'm missing the button on the right which is supposed to be the timer button. The button on the left is acting like the timer button. Jun 27 14:50:24 does anybody hav this working? can you paste the correct code? Jun 27 14:51:17 codes? Jun 27 15:00:05 anybody?? Jun 27 15:08:56 Rootedpre: I didn't see anything, I'm looking again with the wiki open as well. did you reboot your phone after making the changes? Jun 27 15:09:32 morning Jun 27 15:10:58 morning. Jun 27 15:19:13 yeah sure did Jun 27 15:25:33 hmm. Jun 27 15:28:59 holler! SDK! how's it looking? Jun 27 15:29:49 Kaerey, I'll pot the other two files as well. Jun 27 15:29:51 brb Jun 27 15:30:04 Anyone know of a place to get the palm pre fonts? Jun 27 15:32:47 http://webos.pastebin.com/m32298345 -- capture-assistant.js Jun 27 15:33:53 http://webos.pastebin.com/m7602f99f -- capture-scene.html Jun 27 15:34:15 there you go. Those are the only four files which weresupposed to be changed for the camera timer mod. Jun 27 15:40:29 ugh Jun 27 15:40:44 ? Jun 27 15:40:47 so my timer app works via window.setinterval... problem with that is the interval stops running when the screen is turned off Jun 27 15:40:54 wondering what other avenues i should explore Jun 27 15:41:04 s/setinterval/setInterval/ Jun 27 15:48:05 um, how do you delte a icon on the launcher page? Jun 27 15:48:46 hold Orange button and click the icon Jun 27 15:49:07 then... Jun 27 15:49:23 tap the red delete button Jun 27 15:49:24 im dumb, got it, ty Jun 27 15:49:36 =) Jun 27 15:49:58 damn, that Orb software works great Jun 27 15:50:51 so with the help of mrvc - you can now get a terminal in linux Jun 27 15:52:25 mrvc? Jun 27 15:52:36 im assuming th eperson in here Jun 27 15:52:40 person* Jun 27 15:52:52 yes Jun 27 15:53:02 u guys able to ipkg it? Jun 27 15:54:29 it is basically a driver for linux hosts ... so, it doesn't go on the device Jun 27 15:54:50 it's for people with linux who want to get a terminal - but can't since there are no novacom drivers Jun 27 15:55:12 got ya Jun 27 15:56:35 sweet Jun 27 15:57:54 yeah - anyone who wants to try the linux stuff can try it out here: http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/precomd/trees/master Jun 27 16:01:22 nice hack to the driver Jun 27 16:04:03 are there any other rooms that discuss webOS and other things that may or may not have been released? Jun 27 16:06:49 there is a channel on efnet that discusses everything Jun 27 16:07:01 what is the channel name? Jun 27 16:07:44 #preosdev i think ? it was #webosdev ? Jun 27 16:08:17 there's a #webos channel. Jun 27 16:08:42 there you go Jun 27 16:10:00 thanks Jun 27 16:11:02 whats it like in the efnet channel? Jun 27 16:11:16 *shudders* at efnet Jun 27 16:14:07 put a little link to a very rudimentary tutorial for getting a root prompt using linux .. Jun 27 16:14:10 and the new driver Jun 27 16:25:11 interesting cod comment Jun 27 16:25:16 * authentication enough Jun 27 16:25:27 : /* NOV-53509: we consider possession and use of an already paired device to be Jun 27 16:25:30 * authentication enough Jun 27 16:27:53 Jesus. Please let those files stay up another 20 minutes! Jun 27 16:28:24 what files? Jun 27 16:28:32 tharris: why? That's the whole reason behind pairing, eh Jun 27 16:28:40 i know im just finding funny comments Jun 27 16:28:43 tharris: check engadget Jun 27 16:29:00 yeah happened last night Jun 27 16:29:27 srsly Jun 27 16:29:31 its out already? Jun 27 16:29:32 yeah Jun 27 16:29:36 damn Jun 27 16:29:37 mac? Jun 27 16:29:41 its not officially out Jun 27 16:29:47 nice... Jun 27 16:29:49 we only speak of officially in here =p Jun 27 16:29:57 what? Jun 27 16:30:01 al i said was Jun 27 16:30:02 mac? Jun 27 16:30:11 chron: it doesn't look like it Jun 27 16:30:16 didn't mention anything else Jun 27 16:30:17 ah damn Jun 27 16:30:20 virtubox run on mac? Jun 27 16:30:21 seems windows only atm Jun 27 16:30:23 * chron haz win Jun 27 16:30:35 no links in here though =p Jun 27 16:30:46 correct Jun 27 16:30:54 links to what? Jun 27 16:30:59 all i said so far was "mac" and "haz win" Jun 27 16:31:06 nobody is speaking of any links Jun 27 16:31:11 as the almighty and powerful op-of-the-minute, I would have to kick your sorry ass out. Jun 27 16:31:20 just precautionary =p Jun 27 16:32:13 wtf? preinsiders link already dead Jun 27 16:34:42 thats not good, might mean palm is pissed Jun 27 16:34:51 cphelps check out this comment Jun 27 16:34:56 QDLogger.log("getDefaultEmergencyNumber: ugh, defaulting to AMERICA, F*** YEAH (911)"); Jun 27 16:35:32 rut roh Jun 27 16:35:35 tharris: they wouldn't be doing it the way they are if they could handle the tech support required Jun 27 16:35:38 new topic to watch for Jun 27 16:35:57 nebula: huh? Jun 27 16:36:15 anyone find the files dealing with exchange support? Jun 27 16:36:23 ok Jun 27 16:36:41 leaked sdk could be good or bad Jun 27 16:36:42 zule: uh, most are in a java service Jun 27 16:37:01 they been pretty cool with us so far.... Jun 27 16:37:05 kinda figuring that... Jun 27 16:37:07 thanks Jun 27 16:37:10 tharris: for me it just means I don't have to use my damned phone 50 times a day Jun 27 16:37:20 * zule runs a exchange clone mailserver Jun 27 16:37:27 thats not quite working Jun 27 16:37:52 zule: there is such thing as a product that pretends to be exchange? Jun 27 16:38:51 yes Jun 27 16:38:54 kerio mailserver Jun 27 16:39:01 runs pretty well Jun 27 16:39:04 costs a LOT less Jun 27 16:39:25 zule: is it better than just using some kind of google services? Jun 27 16:39:29 but it's got some problems with the pre, it supports bb and centro.treo etc though Jun 27 16:39:51 well, I prefer kerio as it's exchange support which can run on my gentoo server Jun 27 16:40:00 :D Jun 27 16:40:06 zule: oh, you didn't say linux Jun 27 16:40:10 heh Jun 27 16:40:17 zule: that's a whole different bag of apples Jun 27 16:48:46 i should note that kerio has a windows version as well Jun 27 16:50:29 zule: makes sense, since the code is probably 95% compatible if done correctly Jun 27 17:00:57 * nebula goes to work on his soundproof room Jun 27 17:03:25 sooo quite Jun 27 17:03:28 quiet* Jun 27 17:07:18 someone ownmed my name had to register this one Jun 27 17:18:47 Is your nick registered? Jun 27 17:19:05 Is your nick registered? Jun 27 17:19:15 pretty much Jun 27 17:19:34 You can boot someone who is using your registered nick Jun 27 17:19:43 how Jun 27 17:20:10 i mean i can kick him off, but chanserv knows im not him =p Jun 27 17:20:38 oh im sorry, someone already registered my name..... Jun 27 17:20:46 i misunderstood your angle Jun 27 17:20:52 oh ok. lol Jun 27 17:21:04 meh ill be tharris- thats fine Jun 27 17:21:29 when i see him on ill try and barter with him Jun 27 17:21:54 how long has it been since he was on, if a nick goes unused long enough you can request it be cleared for you Jun 27 17:23:33 Has anyone figured how to access the pre's internet for laptop thru bluetooth or USB Jun 27 17:24:02 Just like how pdanet used to Jun 27 17:26:41 that's one of the "forbidden" subjects in here Jun 27 17:26:51 Saiks: per the /topic, that is not discussed here. Jun 27 17:27:16 but suffice to say, it's debian, and usbnet can work on it... figure it out Jun 27 17:27:49 preciate it Jun 27 17:28:03 sorry 4 breaking the rules Jun 27 17:28:17 Hello, when I open novaproxy, it is saying "counldnt find your Pre", Is there anything I can try to get this to work? Jun 27 17:28:53 did you connect the pre and select charge only? what have you already done to the device? anything? Jun 27 17:29:08 what's the most exciting thing done on the web os yet Jun 27 17:29:15 Yes, I followed the directions on the Wiki exactly Jun 27 17:30:08 you enabled dev mode? actually switched it on and rebooted? Jun 27 17:30:26 Yes Jun 27 17:30:52 just an FYI, this is on 64bit Vista Jun 27 17:31:25 ick, I dunno... dual boot winxp 32bit? Jun 27 17:31:26 lol Jun 27 17:32:02 yea....... um it worked perfect yesterday on the g/f's Mac Jun 27 17:32:32 what worked perfect? have you done this before? Jun 27 17:33:07 yes, I rooted in to look at the camera test photo Jun 27 17:37:27 Anyone else have any suggestions? Jun 27 17:43:10 YAH! sdk leaked Jun 27 17:43:45 PreGame: yes, but how do you tell the emu that the center button is pressed Jun 27 17:44:00 click it with the mouse> Jun 27 17:44:37 Does anyone know how to dump the log that is written to in the Palm apps with the "llog" function? Jun 27 17:45:10 Motoxxx50: I would think that if you folloed the process to start sshd previously then you can just ssh into now. why are you doing it again? Jun 27 17:55:23 this should be appropriate for here. in any case it is jwz: http://jwz.livejournal.com/1057786.html Jun 27 18:22:15 what? Everyone's busy downloading the sdk? Jun 27 18:22:42 no, i'm busy working in it Jun 27 18:22:42 =) Jun 27 18:22:47 maaaybe:) Jun 27 18:22:52 can someone help me. Im trying to enable the optware package feed and when i try to udate i get error HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found on the first 2 URL's Jun 27 18:22:53 is it working for u opie? Jun 27 18:23:32 well, if by working you mean is the emu running, then ya. If by working do you mean i have any idea how to use this thing then no Jun 27 18:24:05 gotta go to some stupid wedding =( Jun 27 18:24:05 laters Jun 27 18:24:10 lol Jun 27 18:24:13 lol Jun 27 18:24:19 are you a developer? Jun 27 18:24:20 *must* get ssh on emu =p Jun 27 18:24:24 or just an enthusiast Jun 27 18:24:35 me? i'm a dev Jun 27 18:24:41 k, shit Jun 27 18:24:44 that doesnt bode well for me then :) Jun 27 18:24:46 i literally just got it working 2 seconds ago Jun 27 18:24:49 so is there any directions on how to install on the emulator? Jun 27 18:24:54 what is the palm inspector? Jun 27 18:25:00 PreGame: not sure yet Jun 27 18:25:19 things the sdk requires, virutalbox (latest) and safari4 Jun 27 18:25:24 from what i have read Jun 27 18:25:34 I think Im gonna try to get an IRC app made first thing lol Jun 27 18:25:50 i thought about IRC then i tought about battery life lol Jun 27 18:26:13 yeah, who knows what kind of options you have Jun 27 18:26:32 ESC in emu is ur friend =p Jun 27 18:26:39 from what i read Jun 27 18:26:51 sdk discussion is still off topic Jun 27 18:26:52 isnt there some sort of push integration Jun 27 18:27:17 i do suggest if sdk is alot of discusison to make its own channel Jun 27 18:27:35 since sdk is bad here Jun 27 18:27:36 it just came out Jun 27 18:27:48 yes, but not from palm Jun 27 18:27:49 is it not okay to talk about things that just happened in the community? Jun 27 18:28:03 unless i missed palms announcement Jun 27 18:28:19 I didnt say "was released by palm" I said "came out" Jun 27 18:29:14 Orion_PK: as far as I am concerned, you can discuss what you want. Jun 27 18:29:42 okay Jun 27 18:29:48 Orion_PK: but don't violate any NDA's Jun 27 18:29:53 glad an op weighs on finally heh Jun 27 18:30:03 Orion_PK: and don't ask anyone else to violate them Jun 27 18:30:09 I wouldnt dream of it Jun 27 18:30:10 cphelps, have you found anything on the location of the images stored for bookmarks when opening the browser? i'm tired of it defaulting to the top left corner of the page. Jun 27 18:30:21 I'm kind of tired of being policed by hall monitors Jun 27 18:30:28 ie people who aren't ops Jun 27 18:30:42 im sorry, but i have been here for a whlie =p Jun 27 18:30:45 while* Jun 27 18:30:48 as have I Jun 27 18:30:51 I haven't agreed to any NDA Jun 27 18:31:07 what's going on ? Jun 27 18:31:28 im sorry i cautiously said something to you without having a +next to my name Jun 27 18:31:29 the sdk dam has "collapsed" Jun 27 18:31:33 not leaked Jun 27 18:31:33 lol Jun 27 18:31:39 gotta love how the sdk needs safari to run Jun 27 18:31:42 rwhitby sets the policies and is an op Jun 27 18:31:44 you're forgiven tharrs, just dont do it again Jun 27 18:31:49 lol w/e Jun 27 18:32:22 it wsnt really a reference to you tharrs Jun 27 18:32:23 PreGame: I thought it would be easy to hack it to just use that webview they included, but not so Jun 27 18:32:29 I was talking about someone on #webos mainly Jun 27 18:33:00 well it was hard to tell =p Jun 27 18:33:09 well, I'm telling you now :P Jun 27 18:33:12 Orion_PK: just don't talk about where you got it or how. Jun 27 18:33:29 I didnt say I had it Jun 27 18:33:34 I dont have it actually Jun 27 18:33:40 Orion_PK: I am just making the policy clear Jun 27 18:33:43 I just said I want to make an IRC app Jun 27 18:34:05 what are we talking about? Jun 27 18:34:17 we're discussing the latest news Jun 27 18:34:18 bbiab Jun 27 18:34:19 kord21 did anyone ever answer your question? Jun 27 18:34:34 what's the latest news ? Jun 27 18:34:35 I think folks got a little distracted. Jun 27 18:34:39 TemperamentalMan: yes, I do know how the bookmarks work. It's all in the browser js Jun 27 18:34:41 that the palm pre sdk beta has been leaked Jun 27 18:34:52 was leaked last night Jun 27 18:34:56 oh - i thought that was old news .. Jun 27 18:35:01 with images in the images folder cphelps ? Jun 27 18:35:08 well, when doubling their developer network Jun 27 18:35:17 it is =p, but i do expect a ton of people coming in here asking questions Jun 27 18:35:19 TemperamentalMan: it's a little more complicated than that Jun 27 18:35:22 I didnt say it was new, I said latest Jun 27 18:35:26 i see Jun 27 18:36:07 ok, other news... unsigned ipk's of commander and the runcmd service are out at the gitorius address. Jun 27 18:36:09 hmmm ok. not a linux pro but can get around fairly well. too complicated to mess with right now? i'm just trying to assign a specific image to the main bookmark Jun 27 18:36:27 yeah, commander is pretty nice Jun 27 18:36:28 man precentral forums getting flooded hehe Jun 27 18:36:36 nodnod Jun 27 18:36:47 PreGame: installing safari actually has not fixed the inspector issue Jun 27 18:36:51 TempermentalMan -- that info isn't in the wiki somewhere? Jun 27 18:37:02 I thought I had seen it. Jun 27 18:37:12 I _know_ it's in the irc logs someplace Jun 27 18:37:14 no Rick_ ... i've looked and looked. if you know where it might be i would appreciate the info Jun 27 18:37:34 i didn't see it in the logs either. course, figuring out where to access the logs would help LMAO Jun 27 18:37:55 access logs ? Jun 27 18:38:05 yeah.... Jun 27 18:38:12 /var/log ? Jun 27 18:38:12 it will be intersting to see Palm's response now, pretty sure they have to release it Jun 27 18:38:21 the irc logs Jun 27 18:38:39 ok. you want to know where the images are that are stored that are the images for the bookmarks on the startup page of the web browser? Jun 27 18:38:50 tharrs-: you are completely and utterly off base Jun 27 18:38:57 correct rick. and be able to associate said bookmark with said image Jun 27 18:39:03 tharrs-: The reason they aren't releasing is support Jun 27 18:39:06 why do u say that Jun 27 18:39:10 topic Jun 27 18:39:19 tharrs-: they don't have the manpower Jun 27 18:39:31 i just confirmed that you can side load apps on the emulator just like you can on the pre Jun 27 18:39:37 tharrs-, tooooooo many people with SDK...not enough Palm folks to help them on a massive release Jun 27 18:39:44 dont know if anyone has tried that already Jun 27 18:39:53 i don't think palm likes that it's all leaked out Jun 27 18:40:02 lol palm probably leaked it Jun 27 18:40:02 well, associating said bookmark with said image, I don't know. But you you can certainly replace file xxxx.jpg with a different file with the same name..... Jun 27 18:40:04 and now with half the world having it, is that gooing to make thigns easier? I get the resource issue, but its too late Jun 27 18:40:11 i dunno - i doubt it Jun 27 18:40:20 good point Rick_ ... but I don't know where they are stored Jun 27 18:40:29 tharrs-: they don't have to support people who got it illegally. Jun 27 18:40:37 Palm is 1/20th the size of the developer program at RIM... and less than 1/20th the size of the apple iphone developer team. Jun 27 18:41:09 again i get the resource issue, and i get that dont have to support people, i am just curious what the plans are now Jun 27 18:41:35 "community support" bring back the Palm economy? Jun 27 18:41:42 i could view the browser.js file and see if there is a path to images. haven't tried that. Jun 27 18:41:52 find * | grep .jpg Jun 27 18:42:07 then do it again after making another bookmark Jun 27 18:42:12 and diff the two files. Jun 27 18:42:41 does that located all jpg files? Jun 27 18:42:55 start at root Jun 27 18:42:58 look for png files too Jun 27 18:43:13 oh png right sorry pre usses png for everything Jun 27 18:43:23 ok. but that command will find/locate all png/jpg files? Jun 27 18:43:26 cold be either, i just seen more png flies Jun 27 18:43:28 files* Jun 27 18:43:35 if you start at root.... find lists everything everywhere. Jun 27 18:43:49 then pipe that to grep, grepping for files comtaining png Jun 27 18:43:55 then > that to a file ... Jun 27 18:44:01 gotcha. Jun 27 18:44:04 you can use grep as well to go through the files line by line, but that could be arduous Jun 27 18:44:06 so find | grep png > file1 Jun 27 18:44:11 Rick__: did you ever figure out the commit issue yesterday? Jun 27 18:44:11 then make a new bookmark Jun 27 18:44:17 then do the same thing to file 2 Jun 27 18:44:20 ok bbiab Jun 27 18:44:24 and then diff file1 file2 Jun 27 18:44:30 yeah Jun 27 18:44:35 I could not commit from vista Jun 27 18:44:39 i can commit from xp Jun 27 18:44:41 ok i'llsee what i find out. Jun 27 18:44:52 thanks Rick_ cphelps Jun 27 18:44:53 Rick__: I have XP at work though, and it didn't work for me Jun 27 18:44:57 tharrs-, thanx Jun 27 18:45:01 huh Jun 27 18:45:04 does it work at home? Jun 27 18:45:11 I am setting up now Jun 27 18:45:13 k Jun 27 18:45:20 at home it "just worked." Jun 27 18:45:27 I didn't do anything different you understand. Jun 27 18:45:30 it just worked. Jun 27 18:45:37 do you have the links? Jun 27 18:45:46 to the damned git program Jun 27 18:46:42 np Temp Jun 27 18:47:14 git clone git@gitorious.org:webos-internals/applications.git Jun 27 18:47:18 edit Jun 27 18:47:28 git commit -a Jun 27 18:47:32 git push git@gitorious.org:webos-internals/applications.git master Jun 27 18:47:48 you can git commit filename Jun 27 18:48:01 Rick__: I mean the program to download Jun 27 18:48:02 and then git push which pushes your single file comit Jun 27 18:48:05 oh Jun 27 18:48:18 just google windows git and download the one from google code Jun 27 18:48:41 Any feedback from Palm about the leak? Jun 27 18:48:45 Leaking on Friday is a good idea ;-) Jun 27 18:48:55 heh Jun 27 18:49:36 the contacts i have made with palm includes them respsonding to at 7pm on a Sunday so i bet they are busy Jun 27 18:49:59 cphelps, what version of safari? Jun 27 18:50:13 Rick__: 4. I guess we need something older? Jun 27 18:50:37 4 no go for many others as well Jun 27 18:50:41 cphelps, the only solution I can think of to it not working is to install cygwin and install the linux version there. Jun 27 18:50:58 4 is a no go, or 4 is what you need. Jun 27 18:51:01 'cause I have 3.1.2 Jun 27 18:51:02 Rick__: fuck that. Jun 27 18:51:07 4 is a no go Jun 27 18:51:18 right. we'll make a stupid svn repo and rwhitby can deal Jun 27 18:51:22 Has anyone set up a torrent for the SDK? Jun 27 18:51:34 not that I've seen yet Jun 27 18:51:38 jblebrun: We're not talking about that here Jun 27 18:52:02 jblbrun try #webos Jun 27 18:52:04 jblebrun: if you want to talk about how it works, that's fine by me. Just nothing illegal Jun 27 18:52:09 this is INTERNALS Jun 27 18:52:50 cphelps: not to get finicky but it's a bit grey-market there because they don't SELL the sdk, and they will be providing it freely fairly soon. Jun 27 18:52:50 Ah, sorry, hadn't noted the updated topic. Jun 27 18:53:09 but i dont care either way Jun 27 18:53:14 ParanoidAndroid: not my policy, I am just policing it as I see fit Jun 27 18:53:14 im just happy i got my phone rooted last night Jun 27 18:53:20 all kew wit me Jun 27 18:53:32 i can wait for mojo while playin wit me javascripts Jun 27 18:53:49 My topic line is truncated, it might make sense to move the latest additions near the front of the topic. Jun 27 18:54:01 Mojo is on your phone. The SDK is more about testing and creating packages Jun 27 18:54:14 14:53 Topic: Legit discussion about webOS internals. Policy at http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-internals-irc-channel-policy - Honor all NDAs, licenses, carrier agreements and Palm code copyrights when speaking here. No discussion of tethering please. Logs: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/ Wiki: http://predev.wikidot.com/ Pastebin: http://webos.pastebin.com/ - No links to or discussion about leaked SDKs please. Jun 27 18:54:50 bbiab Jun 27 18:54:54 ah, i thought mojo was their sdk ide that they were going to release Jun 27 18:54:58 thanks for the info tho Jun 27 18:54:59 need to reboot. Jun 27 18:55:03 bpadalino: Yes, thanks, I saw it once I used the topic command. I guess I should make it a habit to use that cmmand ever time I come back. Jun 27 18:55:22 That way I can avoid unnecessary condescending lectures :-) Jun 27 18:55:29 lol Jun 27 18:55:50 jblebrun: you're here a lot, nobody should be condescending. Jun 27 18:56:20 not always the case i would say =p Jun 27 19:04:25 does anyone know if there is a guide on the dev wiki for making the ipkgs? Jun 27 19:05:11 yes Jun 27 19:05:44 one sec digging Jun 27 19:06:04 http://predev.wikidot.com/installing-apps-without-rooting Jun 27 19:06:57 thanks! Jun 27 19:07:00 np =p Jun 27 19:11:00 Rick_: do we know how to checkout from git? Jun 27 19:11:35 found my kerio EAS issue Jun 27 19:11:38 it's not the pre Jun 27 19:11:39 lol Jun 27 19:11:56 it's the mailserver denying a device referring to itself as "Palm" Jun 27 19:12:26 * zule debates a quick assembly patch Jun 27 19:14:34 zule: that can't be right, you said it works for centro/treo ? Jun 27 19:14:57 back Jun 27 19:15:44 welcome back Jun 27 19:15:50 yes, appearently palm identified all centro/treo as "Treo" Jun 27 19:16:15 and only now with the pre changed their identifier to "Palm" Jun 27 19:16:30 this ONLY matters because the mail server lists a few things about each users phone Jun 27 19:16:41 thus they have to code in the various types Jun 27 19:16:53 I could hexedit Treo to Palm as a temp fix Jun 27 19:16:53 lol Jun 27 19:18:03 Rick_, found the thumbnail and icon files. modified and dumped back in. icons work great, thumbnail worked until i went to the site, then it overwrites with generic image again. digging to find more Jun 27 19:19:34 TemperamentalMan: I thought you could set the image you want to use through the ui? Jun 27 19:20:24 cphelps, you can set an icon for the bookmark page from the dropdown. a thumbnail image is used for the bookmark page at the startup of the browser. Jun 27 19:20:31 sucks Jun 27 19:20:32 lol Jun 27 19:21:42 TemperamentalMan: if you want to pay me, I will make it use an image for you :-) Jun 27 19:22:04 lmao. now that takes all the fun out of this!!! but thank you. Jun 27 19:22:11 where is that browser.js file located? Jun 27 19:22:22 Tmpermentalman, /user/palm/applications Jun 27 19:22:30 lol guns for hire! Jun 27 19:22:34 TemperamentalMan: /usr/share/applications/com.palm.app.browser Jun 27 19:22:53 tharris-: I have hacks of my own I want to do, so doing any more for other people isn't all that exciting Jun 27 19:23:03 i can apprecaite that Jun 27 19:23:07 appreciate* Jun 27 19:23:11 i THINK that if i specift a particular image to use, it will not overwrite it when i go to the site Jun 27 19:23:36 i keep gettign side tracked on finding hacks, working on writing my own app and testing the pre for security issues Jun 27 19:23:37 on the other hand, cphelps has already read EVERY LINE of code inj the browser Jun 27 19:23:45 in order to fix downloads Jun 27 19:24:09 Rick__: and for other reasons not disclosed here :-) Jun 27 19:25:34 it will be intersting to see people in here who write apps for profit Jun 27 19:26:36 it will be interesting to see pre projects appearing on rent-a-coder and other e-consulting sites Jun 27 19:31:16 yeah Jun 27 19:31:36 some of hte iphone apps are still extremely expensive on those sites Jun 27 19:32:11 like the gps tracker for the iphone (that is already done on the pre when rooted) is a couple grand Jun 27 19:33:37 would be nice Jun 27 19:35:03 huh Jun 27 19:35:12 the gps tracker app I turned my coworker on to was free Jun 27 19:35:17 InstaMapper Jun 27 19:36:04 a freind of mine was looking to make a framework and found sites offering a ton of money (obvously customized for them) Jun 27 19:36:10 cphelps, is there a bookmark database? Jun 27 19:36:43 TemperamentalMan: yep Jun 27 19:36:50 can anyone help me troubleshoot a cron issue? I've got a mod for the GPS tracking, but cron doesn't seem to be running on my Pre. Jun 27 19:37:03 cphelps, LOL i'm learning. Jun 27 19:37:21 there IS a cron on there. Jun 27 19:37:39 uh Jun 27 19:37:43 only it may be called something else Jun 27 19:37:55 it should automatically start when the phone reboots, right? I don't see the process running, which implies that I broke it somewhere :) Jun 27 19:37:56 Fixed! I hotpatched out iPod and replaced with Palm... Jun 27 19:38:00 kerio now syncs properly Jun 27 19:38:01 lol Jun 27 19:38:23 zule: nice work, dude. Jun 27 19:38:34 zule: but why did it not want palm devices? Jun 27 19:38:50 well, it's because how they identify devices to a user Jun 27 19:38:57 they enter info about the device type... Jun 27 19:39:10 of course to do that, they have a hard coded list of all types Jun 27 19:39:18 and if a device is not listed, it errors... Jun 27 19:39:23 without telling the device Jun 27 19:39:28 it drove me crazy for over a day Jun 27 19:39:44 zule: a day??? consider yourself lucky Jun 27 19:39:49 bpadalino, looks like theres some new stuff on the driver Jun 27 19:39:58 bpadalino, where is it at now? Jun 27 19:41:16 is there a way to find all files that reference another file? i.e. an image file referenced in an html or js file? Jun 27 19:41:55 grep? Jun 27 19:41:58 TemperamentalMan: barking up the wrong tree Jun 27 19:42:09 lmao cphelps Jun 27 19:42:10 TemperamentalMan: all the links are dynamic Jun 27 19:42:20 what are you trying to do? Jun 27 19:42:51 they all come out of databases. You need to read the js code... Jun 27 19:43:02 cphelps, then what tells the browser to maintain the same static thumbnail image for pre-loaded bookmarks? Jun 27 19:43:15 i can't located the browser.js file. Jun 27 19:43:42 TemperamentalMan: you're not ready to be hacking anything if that be the case. Jun 27 19:43:44 TempermentalMan /usr/share/applications/com.palm.app.browser Jun 27 19:44:02 TemperamentalMan: which means you should probably consider some other projects first Jun 27 19:44:05 /usr/palm/applications Jun 27 19:44:12 What he said. Jun 27 19:44:37 i'm in that folder and the file isn't listed. Jun 27 19:44:47 that's 'cause it's not called that Jun 27 19:44:57 yeah...well i'm trying. i figured this was a much simpler fix than anything else to try first Jun 27 19:45:01 have you begun any process of understanding how ANY mojo app works Jun 27 19:45:08 No, this is a moderately hard one. Jun 27 19:45:30 You might want to download a couple of VERY VERY SIMPLE apps, like flashlight or commander and see how THEY are set up Jun 27 19:45:37 Can you someone please invite me to the pre dev wiki? Working on a camera mod just for the heck of it and I'd like to be able to post it. PM if you can. Jun 27 19:45:37 in terms of what files go where..... Jun 27 19:45:47 pm an email address please Jun 27 19:46:10 i think i will do that Rick_ lol. this is proving far more difficult than i has hoped. Jun 27 19:46:22 is there documentation/books available on this? Jun 27 19:46:29 hmmm...would seem this webchat doesn't do PMs...guess I need to get a real IRC client :) Jun 27 19:47:35 or, you can just put your email in open. Jun 27 19:47:58 Might as well get a real client anyways... Jun 27 19:48:20 pidgin works, if you have that or want a global IM client Jun 27 19:52:35 Thanks Rick. Jun 27 19:52:50 temp i think rough cuts is going to be the book, but its not out till august i think Jun 27 19:53:38 TemperamentalMan: I missed something earlier. Jun 27 19:53:55 cphelps, the part where i'm in over my head??? lol Jun 27 19:53:58 TemperamentalMan: you could change the permissions of the file you overwrite to be read, but not write Jun 27 19:54:23 TemperamentalMan: not a great fix, but could work Jun 27 19:54:54 but if i modify that file, will the browser be able to create a thumbnail image for another bookmark? will it "autonumber" so to speak to an alternate file? Jun 27 19:55:33 try it =p Jun 27 19:55:39 alot of this is trial and error Jun 27 19:56:25 true Jun 27 19:56:35 lemme figure out how to change permissions LMAO Jun 27 19:56:37 TempermentalMan if you make a file read only, that does not make some NEW OTHER file read only Jun 27 19:56:59 gotcha Jun 27 19:57:02 TempermentalMan -- first, could you switch to a shorter nick? Second, read up on chmod. Jun 27 19:57:26 LOL...point taken Jun 27 19:57:26 ok Jun 27 19:57:26 thx Jun 27 19:58:40 Rick__: don't have tab? Jun 27 19:58:56 huh? Jun 27 19:59:14 tab completion Jun 27 19:59:42 tmzt == well HELL -- why didn't I know that? Jun 27 20:00:52 anyone on a mac out there? Jun 27 20:03:12 gaffo_laptop: not many. I don't see anyone who digs macs would buy anything but an iPhone. Jun 27 20:03:26 and I'm not hating, I just think there is a philosophy difference Jun 27 20:03:32 :) Jun 27 20:04:17 cphelps, bpadalino is on a mac but he's not around at the moment Jun 27 20:04:19 meh...it didn't overwrite the file. it created a second thumbnail file. Jun 27 20:04:31 So I wanted to start playing with the Pre, so I've created a mod to the Camera application that adds a button to selectively turn on and off the shutter sound. Not extrememly useful, but kinda fun. I'm on Windows...so I need to find a version of diff that runs on windows...hoping to post to the wiki soon. Jun 27 20:04:37 well, now you know Jun 27 20:04:53 csdiff Jun 27 20:05:19 That will create output similar to what is out on the wiki? Jun 27 20:05:47 http://download.cnet.com/ExamDiff/3000-2248_4-10059626.html?tag=mncol Jun 27 20:05:49 that will. Jun 27 20:06:03 gaffo_laptop: thanks for the info. I will harass him about that later. Jun 27 20:06:08 and it provides a graphical diff viewer on your windows, and produces standard unix diff files Jun 27 20:06:10 and it's free Jun 27 20:06:17 Thanks...grabbing it now Jun 27 20:06:23 unified? Jun 27 20:06:33 don't remember. Jun 27 20:06:38 I have a Mac, and I love it, but I avoided the iPhone :-) Jun 27 20:06:40 but it's what I generally use. Jun 27 20:08:09 cphelps: novaterm was only released for OSX, and some people choose OSX for the unix and have no interest in iPhone Jun 27 20:08:28 I did most of the browser work on a mac Jun 27 20:08:35 right now I'm on my vista box though Jun 27 20:08:54 tmzt: for the unix? if you want unix, there are plenty of platforms that are better Jun 27 20:09:43 cphelps: That's a matter of personal taste and workflow. Jun 27 20:10:17 jblebrun: but the people that have THAT personal taste and workflow are not typically command line weenies Jun 27 20:12:13 jblebrun: I'm not saying those people aren't out there, but they are most likely not all that plentiful Jun 27 20:12:47 rooting my pre was much easier on my os-x machine than my vista x64 machine (I did it twice to be sure I had both bases covered) Jun 27 20:13:45 mdklein: I'm xp on everything I own except the box connected to the tv Jun 27 20:15:00 we're mostly mac and ubuntu at work, so that's why I have the macs... and even that is kind of leftover from the g4/g5 days... we just kept going with it... Jun 27 20:15:42 we have 1 windows machine, and it's a terminal server so people can access applications they might need that are windows only Jun 27 20:15:57 Speaking of... I am trying out Ubuntu Jun 27 20:15:58 I used to use osx (as hackintosh) Jun 27 20:16:16 I switched to Xubuntu a few days ago just so I could get the fan to stop :P Jun 27 20:16:52 putting the headphone jack at the top middle is a rather stupid design decision Jun 27 20:17:16 MTW: I always want to flip it upside down :-) Jun 27 20:17:19 I like it there Jun 27 20:17:30 same, jd Jun 27 20:17:33 i want it at the bottom Jun 27 20:17:41 it doesn't make sense to have it draping down the back Jun 27 20:18:19 the battery life on this thing is pretty damn terrible Jun 27 20:18:23 that's what bluetooth is for Jun 27 20:18:35 bluetooth audio sounds like fucking garbage and everyone knows that Jun 27 20:18:35 wires are so 20th century Jun 27 20:18:47 I'm old. I can't tell. Jun 27 20:18:54 i can. Jun 27 20:19:03 sad for you then. :-) Jun 27 20:19:09 wewt, sdk is out! Jun 27 20:19:14 enjoy charging your headphones Jun 27 20:19:20 where have you been the lst five hours? Jun 27 20:19:28 lol Jun 27 20:19:36 How do you hold your phone so as to have your wire drape down the back? Jun 27 20:19:38 just woke up, today is a good day Jun 27 20:19:58 i didnt have to bust out my AK Jun 27 20:20:00 mtw, everything I own gets dropped onto the charger every night before I go to bed. as long as I get through the day, what do I care? Jun 27 20:20:05 Mine sits in my holster at work... plugs in top and wire goes from there upto my ears... being on bottom would seem insane... Jun 27 20:20:52 I can't stand headphone ports on the bottom of anything Jun 27 20:21:06 on the side around 2/3 of the way up is my favorit Jun 27 20:21:10 * left side Jun 27 20:21:53 cell phone, bluetooth headsets (2 -- one stereo for music and one earpiece for most of the time) portable scanner, the 18v battery pack for my tool set, all get pluged in every night. It's a ritual. Jun 27 20:22:51 argggggggggggggghhhhh alrighty then. time for a trip to the bookstore lol Jun 27 20:23:25 TemperamentalMan: book on prototype Jun 27 20:23:25 hey everyone is back :d Jun 27 20:23:49 and you may as well get the O'Reilly book on Mojo from their web site, since you can download a pdf of the first 11 chapters RIGHT NOW. Jun 27 20:24:09 do u have a link to that pdf rick? Jun 27 20:24:20 prototype? Jun 27 20:24:52 http://my.safaribooksonline.com/9780596802097 Jun 27 20:25:04 the javascript library that palm included in the mojo framework is prototype Jun 27 20:25:27 http://www.prototypejs.org/ Jun 27 20:25:54 thanks Rick_ Jun 27 20:26:51 u say this is only the first 11 chapters? Jun 27 20:28:08 if you pay for it, you can download the 'in process as we do final edits" of the text. up to chapter 11 is out as of Friday. Jun 27 20:28:25 chapter 1 is free, and is REQURIRED READING if you want to develop mojo Jun 27 20:28:31 and I would reccomend http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Prototype-script-aculo-us-Experts-Development/dp/1590599195/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246134424&sr=1-2 Jun 27 20:28:34 that as well. Jun 27 20:29:16 oh, wow, the torrent for the leaked SDK is quick Jun 27 20:29:48 big suprize since there are 10,127,325 participants... :-) Jun 27 20:29:54 i'm getting ready to grab it Jun 27 20:29:59 book not torrent Jun 27 20:31:08 heh Jun 27 20:31:42 Rick__, : ExamDiff is able to create the diff files, but it doesn't seem to do them in the same (and nicer) format as the ones on the wiki...on the camera mod page for instace. Jun 27 20:31:52 dling at around 1MB/s lol Jun 27 20:32:17 ahh, it doesn't produce unified diffs... sorry. Jun 27 20:32:24 ok, it's still useful as all heck Jun 27 20:32:27 wait one. Jun 27 20:32:27 Know of a program that does? Jun 27 20:32:42 I like the GUI interface to ExamDiff... Jun 27 20:33:52 Rick__: where exactly can i get that pdf of the book? Jun 27 20:34:15 wis1999 http://winmerge.org/ that will produce unified diffs Jun 27 20:34:17 sorry about that Jun 27 20:34:28 great...thanks. Jun 27 20:34:32 I'll give it a shot. Jun 27 20:34:33 gkatsev -- you have to pay for it. Only the first chapter is free. Jun 27 20:34:44 http://my.safaribooksonline.com/9780596802097 Jun 27 20:35:38 Rick__: Northeastern subscribes to safaribooksonline, so, no i dont, :P Jun 27 20:35:55 nice Jun 27 20:36:57 well... what was leaked was the emulator. not the SDK. Jun 27 20:37:06 ooops wrong window Jun 27 20:38:14 Rick__: WinMerge worked...Thanks again. Jun 27 20:40:06 Rick__: well, as soon as i remember how to get access to it when im not on campus... Jun 27 20:40:41 meanwhile, read chapter 1... it's free Jun 27 20:48:09 hm... i guess that my school's subscription doesnt have it yet... Jun 27 20:49:23 Ok...dumb question...is there a way to attach files to the wiki? Jun 27 20:49:36 no. there is not. You have to host files elsewhere Jun 27 20:49:50 hmmm... Jun 27 20:50:07 I have a new .png file that goes along with my changes...guess I'll have to find a place to host it. Jun 27 20:51:46 bpadalino, you around? Jun 27 20:55:58 If anyone is interested my Shutter Sound On/Off button mod is posted to the wiki. Jun 27 20:56:06 http://predev.wikidot.com/camera-modifications-additions Jun 27 20:58:07 Thanks Wiz1999! Jun 27 20:58:19 np...let me know if there are any issues. Jun 27 21:07:33 Wiz1999: if it's yours and you're willing to license it there is a possibility to have a place in git for resources Jun 27 21:12:22 The code is all my own...The new icons I have I created from something I found on google images...so that one could be questionable. I have no problem with the stuff being put somewhere. Jun 27 21:14:49 tmzt: I've never used Git before...I'll take a look at it. Jun 27 21:15:21 hey gaffo ... you're going to hate me :( Jun 27 21:15:53 bpadalino, whyssat? Jun 27 21:16:02 i nixed autotools :( Jun 27 21:16:08 yeah, I saw that Jun 27 21:16:17 * bpadalino hides under a rock Jun 27 21:16:27 the good news is that you can get a terminal!! :D Jun 27 21:16:29 bpadalino, I was a bit pissed but I got over it :) Jun 27 21:16:37 yeah, I saw that. it didn't work for me Jun 27 21:16:50 I pushed some commits that clean up a few things Jun 27 21:17:16 it didn't work for you, huh ? Jun 27 21:17:24 no, I just got a blank line Jun 27 21:17:42 interesting Jun 27 21:18:10 bpadalino, so currently do you see a few executables one for tty, one for file xfer? Jun 27 21:18:17 and then we build the server ontop of that? Jun 27 21:19:40 hrmm .. Jun 27 21:20:13 as a tempoary thing Jun 27 21:20:49 yeah - as a temporary thing, we can do something like that Jun 27 21:20:57 once we get the handling down of the protocol Jun 27 21:21:17 should be able to get a nice solid base Jun 27 21:21:46 bpadalino, I think it'd let us "deliver" somthing to people thats usable pretty soon as well. Jun 27 21:21:57 true Jun 27 21:22:01 i am confused why you get a blank line Jun 27 21:22:03 that's for sure Jun 27 21:22:19 I'm gonna try again in a few seconds Jun 27 21:23:00 bpadalino: are you still working novacom-type stuff for Linux? Jun 27 21:23:15 yeah - got it working i think Jun 27 21:23:27 mrvc took what i wrote, and put a simple state machine Jun 27 21:23:49 what stuff have you implemented so far? Jun 27 21:24:06 just tty Jun 27 21:24:13 i don't have usb captures for file io just yet .. Jun 27 21:24:58 bpadalino, are you going to be able to get those? Jun 27 21:25:02 i really need to get myself the IOUSBFamily debug stuff for 10.5.7 .. but apple won't let me download Jun 27 21:25:14 maybe .. i'm going to have to figure something out Jun 27 21:25:48 the other option is to have someone in windows capture a restore from the web doctor and give us the logs Jun 27 21:25:54 since it uses a lot of the features of novacom Jun 27 21:26:21 good luck with that... it doesn't seem like anyone ever wants to restore their pre Jun 27 21:26:43 I tried getting someone to do it to test out custom boot logos like two weeks ago... no takers Jun 27 21:28:11 I don't have that much on my phone but I don't have linux :( Jun 27 21:28:17 er windows Jun 27 21:29:16 nebula seems to restore constantly - so he would be a good person to ask Jun 27 21:31:03 gaffo, repull and i think you should have everything up to date Jun 27 21:31:11 i just built and ran on my osx machine and it seemed to work well Jun 27 21:31:46 kk Jun 27 21:32:30 lets try to see if you can get a terminal on your machine, and if you can't - why not Jun 27 21:32:50 it's working now Jun 27 21:32:53 what'd you push? Jun 27 21:33:09 that's cool! Jun 27 21:33:30 !!! Jun 27 21:33:35 glad you approve Jun 27 21:33:48 like i said, sorry for killing autotools .. but it just seemed like a lot of overhead :( Jun 27 21:33:58 bpadalino, is it using the single packet thing or is it multiplexing? Jun 27 21:34:17 what do you men ? Jun 27 21:34:22 it's all single packets Jun 27 21:34:33 so it has to wait for the ack before sending again, right? Jun 27 21:34:38 oh yes Jun 27 21:34:39 pretty sure Jun 27 21:34:57 actualy, it's echoing quickly, guess it's just the speed of the pre Jun 27 21:35:06 is this all on github where I can read it? Jun 27 21:35:10 gitosis Jun 27 21:35:49 bpadalino, I removed the 2 different build targets, it turns gcc on linux doesn't break with erronious includes Jun 27 21:36:04 ah cool Jun 27 21:36:13 cyanidepoison: it's actually in both places Jun 27 21:36:20 vaughn has been working on github Jun 27 21:36:25 and i've been merging and pushing to both Jun 27 21:36:28 to keep them both up to date Jun 27 21:36:38 git makes it easy to do that, so i didn't see any problems Jun 27 21:36:49 git is pretty darn cool, i have to say Jun 27 21:36:51 bpadalino, sounds annoying Jun 27 21:36:57 bpadalino, this the first time you've used it? Jun 27 21:37:04 got a url or something I can search for to find it? Jun 27 21:37:23 gaffo, in textmate i hit control+shift+g and say "Push" and one of the options is "all remotes" Jun 27 21:37:25 it's SUPER easy Jun 27 21:37:25 nvm Jun 27 21:37:26 found it Jun 27 21:37:33 bpadalino, :) Jun 27 21:37:48 and yes, this is the first time i've used git for real Jun 27 21:37:54 as a contributor and whatnot Jun 27 21:38:30 bpadalino, we've been using it at work for about a year, I agree that it is badass. especially for this type of work. Jun 27 21:40:11 looks like a lot of good work Jun 27 21:40:35 cyanidepoison, yeah - mrvc really did a good job putting together that state machine Jun 27 21:41:34 going to push some formatting changes soon Jun 27 21:41:58 bpadalino, so what's the next step? I can read through the java and try and write down what the protocol is Jun 27 21:42:57 well, getting a better terminal working was where i wanted to go next ... i know curses has a raw() mode for single character input .. Jun 27 21:43:03 which is where, i believe, we want to be .. Jun 27 21:43:10 for better interactivity Jun 27 21:43:26 bpadalino, what's it using right now? Jun 27 21:43:36 though mrvc suggested termios .. i don't know what that is or what it depends on Jun 27 21:43:41 it's just using select() Jun 27 21:43:43 * gaffo_laptop hasn't gone over the code yet Jun 27 21:43:46 and fscanf i believe Jun 27 21:44:17 kk Jun 27 21:44:50 bpadalino, well, it'd probably be a good idea for us to not all work on the same thing, eg not to race each other for the same feature Jun 27 21:44:53 termios... I remember that from somewhere Jun 27 21:45:01 yeah .. Jun 27 21:45:07 I have a quick question if anyone has a second... I'm trying to install sudo, but it keeps giving me the error code 4: Cannot find package sudo. Anyone know how to resolve this? Jun 27 21:45:15 oh, yeah. I used it when working with the modem on the iPhone Jun 27 21:45:27 Guest72054, is this on the pre or your desktop? Jun 27 21:45:33 pre Jun 27 21:45:35 gaffo, you can try to figure out more of the protocol if you want - or go through the structures and try to figure out what the unknown bits are ? Jun 27 21:45:58 gaffo, or you can try working on the "daemon" part - where it opens a socket, waits for someone to connect and arbitrates .. Jun 27 21:46:01 bpadalino, the novacomd protocol or the usb one? Jun 27 21:46:04 that will probably be pretty key Jun 27 21:46:29 bpadalino, I mean the actual daemon protocol Jun 27 21:47:28 oh - that's basically the pmux data protocol ... Jun 27 21:47:53 but yeah - check all that out .. look at the novaproxy.py that was written Jun 27 21:48:03 kk Jun 27 21:48:11 since that talks to novacomd ... and get it so that novaproxy.py can talk to your daemon .. and we both understand each other Jun 27 21:48:17 are you guys working on building a terminal application) (just curious) Jun 27 21:48:35 bclancy_, we're working on an open source version of the novacomd daemon Jun 27 21:48:40 bpadalino, that sounds like a good one. I'll work on that. Jun 27 21:48:42 ok Jun 27 21:48:44 excellent Jun 27 21:48:49 I gotta go Jun 27 21:48:51 golf Jun 27 21:48:52 later Jun 27 21:48:54 enjoy Jun 27 21:48:54 later Jun 27 21:49:44 bpadalino, do you know what the issue would be if it can't find the sudo package? Jun 27 21:50:11 guest, yes - you haven't installed it or your path is not correct Jun 27 21:52:57 that's what's driving me nuts, I've triple checked the instructions onpredev.wikidot and I've done everything correctly. the command ipkg-opt install sudo comes back with "Annot find package sudo. Check spelling or run 'ipkg update'. Jun 27 21:53:01 both of which I've done Jun 27 21:53:45 ipkg-opt list ? Jun 27 21:53:58 i totally had that problem too. trying to remember how I fixed it Jun 27 21:54:28 ipkg-opt list ? returns "Successfully terminated." Jun 27 21:55:06 Oh yeah! It was because my optware.conf file was wacked Jun 27 21:55:06 take away the question mark .. this may be painful :( Jun 27 21:55:32 make sure your optware.conf file is not wacked .. good advice :) Jun 27 21:55:49 lol Sorry, looking it up so I can help Jun 27 21:55:55 painful indeed... Jun 27 21:56:10 that dumped out a list of kernel-modules Jun 27 21:56:21 can you paste them to webos.pastebin.com ? Jun 27 21:56:44 Yeah, I think it means that it didn't download all the repos Jun 27 21:57:22 ipkg-opt update Jun 27 21:57:45 kernel modules? Jun 27 21:58:04 what are some good homebrew apps? Jun 27 21:58:11 a tip calculator and a fart app are required Jun 27 21:58:11 pasted as kat Jun 27 21:58:13 also a flashlight Jun 27 21:58:23 If I remember correctly, I used vim to alter the optware.conf file. I'd recommend that you delete it (rm /opt/etc/ipkg/optware.conf) and start over with section 7 again Jun 27 21:58:50 Guest72054, can you use pastebin to paste your optware.conf as well ? Jun 27 21:59:08 ah Jun 27 21:59:21 are there kernel module packages for pre? Jun 27 21:59:34 ah, i see ... i have a feeling you didn't use >> for your redirection Jun 27 21:59:35 and just used > Jun 27 21:59:41 which would overwrite your optware.conf Jun 27 21:59:46 yup Jun 27 22:00:13 that >> is the single most dangerous thing in the rooting instructions Jun 27 22:00:13 since kernel is the last thing written, that would explain why kernel modules are the only items listed Jun 27 22:00:23 and yet, we have yet to figure out a way around it. Jun 27 22:00:32 without a "real" installer. Jun 27 22:00:42 tee -a ? Jun 27 22:01:06 bpadalino, I just looked at my log, and you're right. Is there any way to fix it? Jun 27 22:01:16 cough cough -- webosdr Jun 27 22:01:25 not needed Jun 27 22:01:27 Anybody have trouble with the pre data connection? Jun 27 22:01:28 I know Jun 27 22:01:29 nah .. just needs to setup the conf correctly Jun 27 22:01:32 I was trying for humor Jun 27 22:01:37 I have cell service but no data connection Jun 27 22:01:38 Guest72054: try going here: http://predev.wikidot.com/next-steps-after-rooting Jun 27 22:01:40 sorry Jun 27 22:01:44 and re-doing steps 7 and on Jun 27 22:01:47 somebody might believe you Jun 27 22:01:54 be wary of the > versus >> Jun 27 22:02:03 the directions seems to be copy/pasteable Jun 27 22:02:09 I was going to say -- jump to step 7 ad repeat as my next instruction. Jun 27 22:02:09 so i'd go that route versus hand typing Jun 27 22:02:26 bpadalino, thanks! I'll give it a shot. I'll let you know how it works out... Jun 27 22:02:27 if you're using putty, you can copy and past them. even multiple lines. Right-click pastes in putty Jun 27 22:02:30 replace it with |tee -a filename Jun 27 22:02:46 anybody? Jun 27 22:02:55 tmzt has a good point using tee .. might be a good idea Jun 27 22:03:13 edaktor - you haven't done anything to your phone, you just lack data? Jun 27 22:03:14 edektor: No problems here Jun 27 22:03:17 are you roaming? Jun 27 22:03:25 learned that from sudo on ubuntu Jun 27 22:03:41 data is ppp? Jun 27 22:03:57 data is "more complex than that." Jun 27 22:04:03 Ive rooted install openSSH and tweaked the launch app and stuff but nothing that would harm my data connection Jun 27 22:04:07 but not all digital roaming agreements that sprint has include data. Jun 27 22:04:07 ifconfig Jun 27 22:04:25 if you have 1x or EV it should work Jun 27 22:04:27 edektor, are you roaming? Jun 27 22:04:32 if you have D it won't Jun 27 22:04:58 No I have had 1x and EV for the past week then all the sudden there is nothing. Just the bars Jun 27 22:05:00 ps aux |grep ppp Jun 27 22:05:11 but no R? Jun 27 22:05:26 no R just nothing Jun 27 22:05:33 sprint problem Jun 27 22:05:40 maybe Jun 27 22:05:40 211 Jun 27 22:05:44 ? Jun 27 22:06:38 211 is customer service i believe Jun 27 22:07:38 bpadalino, that worked. Thank you so much! Jun 27 22:08:15 you're welcome Jun 27 22:08:17 good luck Jun 27 22:08:35 on ifconfig i have bsl0 eth0 and lo Jun 27 22:09:19 hi Jun 27 22:09:39 i miss anything while out and about? Jun 27 22:10:25 ps aux | grep ppp gives me: root 19342 0.0 0.3 2944 764 ttyACM0 Ss+ 16:09 0:00 pppd /dev/tts/modem0 file /etc/ppp/options-cdma mtu 1480 Jun 27 22:10:53 Hi all Jun 27 22:10:57 hello Jun 27 22:11:16 edektor: what are you trying to do ? Jun 27 22:11:23 Can a script write to a file or will the readonly file system stop it? Jun 27 22:11:45 find out why I dont have a data connection Jun 27 22:12:01 ps aux |grep ppp Jun 27 22:12:16 tmzt: i did that Jun 27 22:12:30 you don't have a ppp0 huh ? Jun 27 22:12:36 in your ifconfig ? Jun 27 22:13:02 nope just bsl0 eth0 and lo Jun 27 22:13:03 can someone else do that? Jun 27 22:13:10 tmzt, i get the same Jun 27 22:13:15 ok Jun 27 22:13:28 how does evdo work on the pre? Jun 27 22:13:40 edektor: try turning off wifi, it should kick in evdo Jun 27 22:13:42 over usb i believe .. lsusb shows the qualcomm modem connected Jun 27 22:13:51 yeah Jun 27 22:14:06 lsof PIPE usb Jun 27 22:14:32 turning off the wifi doesnt do anything Jun 27 22:14:32 edektor: i dod a full reset and lost my data registration and needed to reactivate it Jun 27 22:14:33 So has anyone started playing with the emulator yet? Anyone figure out a way to copy files into the filesystem? Jun 27 22:14:37 and had the same thing happened Jun 27 22:14:58 edektor: if you have another sprint device, going to sprint.com/activate and activating that one, then reactivating the pre might work Jun 27 22:15:04 Wiz1999: can we talk about that in here Jun 27 22:15:05 otherwise gotta call tech support Jun 27 22:15:09 not needed Jun 27 22:15:16 edektor: Not sure. Jun 27 22:15:20 does sprint use *228 ? Jun 27 22:15:29 whats that? Jun 27 22:15:31 prl? Jun 27 22:15:32 no. Jun 27 22:15:50 they used to have a voice menu where you could say prl update Jun 27 22:15:52 but not anymore Jun 27 22:15:59 now you gotta ask a tech Jun 27 22:16:05 or force the device to take it, which the pre will Jun 27 22:16:11 think a restore with the webOS doctor would fix it Jun 27 22:16:14 i doubt failing to connect to data services is PRL update dude Jun 27 22:16:16 i think you can click "get prl update" Jun 27 22:16:18 in some menu Jun 27 22:16:21 ahh never used webos doctor Jun 27 22:16:37 jamesbaud needs new internet/router Jun 27 22:17:12 if you phone the phone and go to the preferences there is an update prl button Jun 27 22:17:38 mogren: what? Jun 27 22:17:46 if you open Jun 27 22:17:50 the phone app .. and in preferences Jun 27 22:17:53 "update prl" Jun 27 22:18:02 but his problem isnt PRL if it works fine for voice and not data. Jun 27 22:18:12 3g dead zone? Jun 27 22:18:29 sorry i jumped in the middle of that and just saw something about looking how to do prl update Jun 27 22:19:07 Smashman: no I had it just the other day in the same place that I am sitting now Jun 27 22:20:49 I try to do update network settings and it says "The network settings could not be updated. Try again later. If the problem persists call Sprint Customer service." Jun 27 22:21:14 edektor: try webos doctor, or doing the reactivation i mentioned earlier Jun 27 22:21:14 the latter fixed it for me, i have no idea about webos doctor Jun 27 22:21:41 How do I got about reactivating Jun 27 22:21:55 Im the Palm Emulator, whuts the button you press like the one on the palm Jun 27 22:22:35 you know, the bottom middle button on the pre that changes the cards view, whut it is in the emulator? Jun 27 22:25:34 What about updating it? I havent done that yet Jun 27 22:25:38 THis is not the channel to discuss the emulator. Jun 27 22:25:44 use #webos Jun 27 22:25:47 please Jun 27 22:25:54 this is to discuss webos INTERNALS Jun 27 22:28:21 * edektor restoring with webOS doctor Jun 27 22:33:45 edektor: if that doesnt work, you can de-activate the pre by reactivating any other device at www.sprint.com/activate, then actvate the pre back on the account Jun 27 22:33:50 this should reprovision data Jun 27 22:34:08 how is internals defined? Jun 27 22:34:14 I only have 1 sprint phone though Jun 27 22:34:19 ah damn Jun 27 22:34:24 well cust svc/store can help Jun 27 22:34:25 you shouldn't have to deactive Jun 27 22:34:39 just activate and update prl Jun 27 22:34:43 ya you probably dont have to, i just personally dont know any other way Jun 27 22:34:46 should complete otap then Jun 27 22:34:55 tmzt: the problem is data got deprovisioned Jun 27 22:35:05 how do you reprovision data on pre without reactivation? Jun 27 22:35:08 I tried updating the prl and it would connect to sprint to do it Jun 27 22:35:13 is there some way to make the pre think you have sprint tv xtra Jun 27 22:35:14 so voice works, but data doesnt Jun 27 22:35:19 *wouldnt Jun 27 22:35:22 mtw: besides buying it, doubtful Jun 27 22:35:26 JamesBaud: click it Jun 27 22:35:27 meshuga: yes Jun 27 22:35:42 tmzt: my definition of internals is stuff that is legitimate, but the official palm doco won't tell you about it. Jun 27 22:35:55 like the stuff on predev wiki Jun 27 22:35:55 wanted to check out msnbc before subing Jun 27 22:35:58 for how to use the SDK instructions, that should be discussed in #webos Jun 27 22:36:02 if its LIVE, the exact same shit as tv Jun 27 22:36:06 i'd pay for it Jun 27 22:36:09 otherwise i'm not interested Jun 27 22:36:16 its probably not the exact same shit Jun 27 22:36:25 but if it is Jun 27 22:36:25 ownage Jun 27 22:36:28 but you can sub it, desuba nd tell sprint it sucked and they'll credit you back the diff Jun 27 22:36:35 oh nice Jun 27 22:36:37 i shall do that Jun 27 22:36:39 within a day or two usually Jun 27 22:36:44 countdown, etc on the go = :) Jun 27 22:37:07 rwhitby: oh, how to use it, when we have it I would think the filesystem and it's contents are on-topic Jun 27 22:37:29 they should certainly resemble that of the hardware Jun 27 22:37:57 tmzt: yep, filesystem and contents are on-topic, if the information comes from legit sources like the webOS Doctor files, or a device that someone has. Jun 27 22:38:20 the "when we have it" part I mean from palm Jun 27 22:38:30 agreed Jun 27 22:38:57 but support on how to use the emulator, and support on how to use the SDK API, should be in #webos Jun 27 22:39:24 since Palm people have set up that channel for that purpose. Jun 27 22:40:13 since I have no idea how to build native plugins and whether sdk will even have that feature Jun 27 22:40:41 if that's something palm is not intending to support Jun 27 22:40:42 heh - Android just released that, so it seems Palm will be forced to release a native SDK eventually to keep up with the Joneses. Jun 27 22:40:58 but I doubt that will happen in the first year. Jun 27 22:41:10 i can confirm that the msnbc feed in sprint tv is a live, exact version of what's on tv Jun 27 22:41:13 android ndk is only jni for now Jun 27 22:41:26 but very small and unwatchable Jun 27 22:41:37 withvall the graphics Jun 27 22:42:05 at least trying to watch in Sprint store on other devices Jun 27 22:42:16 this looks fine Jun 27 22:42:18 fills the screen Jun 27 22:42:19 Etc Jun 27 22:42:43 rwhitby: I mean will we still consider tha ontopic here if not supported by Palm in thier channel Jun 27 22:42:57 tmzt: absolutely Jun 27 22:43:05 good Jun 27 22:43:28 other than hardware and kernel that's where my interests lie Jun 27 22:44:25 mtw - msnbc feed? is that in sprint tv? i don't see it... Jun 27 22:48:35 I note that palm uses TABLES for layout in their internal apps. Jun 27 22:49:07 :-) I was taught not to do that. :-) I guess blind accessability isn't important on the pre... :-) Pre apps are not Bobby compliant. Jun 27 22:50:39 who did the timer on a stick app? Jun 27 22:52:08 why does the battery life suck so hard Jun 27 22:52:25 I updated to 1.0.3 and that seemed to fix it.. I didnt use webOS doctor Jun 27 22:54:00 i updated the day i got it, which would be yesterday...still sucks Jun 27 22:54:33 MTW - 'cause the battery's too little. Jun 27 22:54:43 and we're asking too much of it. Jun 27 22:54:56 there are things you can do to help. Jun 27 22:55:04 if you're in a wifi area TURN WIFI ON. Jun 27 22:55:10 turn gps off unless you need it. Jun 27 22:55:18 turn your brightness down Jun 27 22:55:51 switch email updates to 30 or 60 minutes, or turn off push email and get new email only when you ask for it. Jun 27 22:56:37 Rick__, do you know what the issue would be if I was able to SSH to my Pre while testing, but I get a "Connection Refused" error after the Pre reboots? Jun 27 22:56:56 on the other hand, -- carrying a usb cable with you, and pluggin the pre in when you're just sitting around is a good idea Lithium polymer batteries LIKE being charged. They get their max life if they never go below 90% Jun 27 22:57:09 Guest72054: Jun 27 22:57:15 Guest72054: Yes. I would. Jun 27 22:57:27 would it be my stupidity? Jun 27 22:57:34 you missed an instruction. Jun 27 22:57:41 which version are you doing? Jun 27 22:57:53 Dropbear Jun 27 22:58:25 step 3 failed. Jun 27 22:58:36 ren-enable dev mode. Jun 27 22:58:40 rerun talik.py Jun 27 22:58:44 go in to telnet Jun 27 22:58:47 pick up with step 3 Jun 27 23:01:01 Rick__, just tried step 3 and got-- wget: can't open 'optware-dropbear': File exists Jun 27 23:02:27 Anybody figure out a way to turn down the screen brightness without turning down the keyboard brightness? Jun 27 23:03:14 edektor: nope Jun 27 23:03:35 you might go digging in the brightness controller app, and see if the calls are to one service or two. Jun 27 23:04:15 Guest72054: cd /etc/event.d Jun 27 23:04:15 ls /sys/class/backlight Jun 27 23:04:34 Guest72054: ls Jun 27 23:05:20 initctl optware-dropbear Jun 27 23:05:30 and see if you can ssh Jun 27 23:05:53 if the optware-dropbear script is in event.d it OUGHT to run when the system is booted Jun 27 23:07:07 if it's +x Jun 27 23:07:23 but the problems seem to be related to iptables Jun 27 23:07:31 what's the error message? Jun 27 23:08:37 Rick__, it looks like dropbear started fine, but it's still giving me a connection refused error when I try to ssh Jun 27 23:09:59 which is odd since I was able to do it before. Jun 27 23:10:22 ssh -p 222 ? Jun 27 23:11:58 yeah Jun 27 23:12:05 and I get Connection Refused Jun 27 23:13:08 same wifi connection? Jun 27 23:13:42 yeah Jun 27 23:13:55 ok, looks like we have a statement from Chuq in developer relations in Palm: Jun 27 23:14:02 does phone work now, edektor? Jun 27 23:14:02 Chuq: "Looks like someone broke the NDA last night and leaked the webOS SDK. And I haven't even had my coffee yet...." Jun 27 23:14:10 Chuq: "Sad thing is we'll have to spend time dealing with this, and that'll just slow down the real work we need to finish." Jun 27 23:14:15 yeah I restored to 1.0.3 and it worked Jun 27 23:14:25 sorry not restored. updated Jun 27 23:14:31 dealing with? Jun 27 23:14:50 I'm assuming Cease and Desist notices for sites hosting it. Jun 27 23:15:06 rwhitby: where you reading this? Jun 27 23:15:12 edektor: http://twitter.com/chuq Jun 27 23:15:21 thanks Jun 27 23:15:45 the only thing that was done between my last successful ssh login and this one was I remounted the system as read only and restarted the phone Jun 27 23:15:50 9 hours ago Jun 27 23:17:28 try openSSH Jun 27 23:19:22 first time I rooted it openSSH didnt work for me... then I restored and used dropbear and it worked. Jun 27 23:20:11 dropbear won't conflict with the openssh install, will it/ Jun 27 23:20:46 MTW: I was going to mention that after the first day when your battery is almost uncharged, when you put it on the charger overnight, magic will happen and things will definitely improve. I ran mine down to zero on the first day before charging overnite. This seems to reset the battery gauge and thing should be a lot better on day2. Jun 27 23:21:40 it doesn't improve the abttery itself Jun 27 23:23:03 If you run it down to zero, it will display a huge battery on the screen. In 1.01, there was a bug where the onscreen battery graphic was stuck on until I removed battery to reset the device. I think they fixed that bug in 1.02, It's definitely not a bug in your 1.03 Jun 27 23:23:33 on the screen? Jun 27 23:23:37 agreed tmzt, but it will act much better when the fuel gauge is not out of wack. Jun 27 23:23:39 in webos itself? Jun 27 23:23:49 you asking me? Jun 27 23:23:59 yes Jun 27 23:24:28 it is like another run level or boot mode. The battery has a big lightning bolt on it and almost fills the screen. Jun 27 23:24:35 seems strage, makes sense in a bootloader Jun 27 23:24:37 ok Jun 27 23:25:54 Let me see if I can find the code that does that (or at least the image). Jun 27 23:26:25 When you get that big=a$$ battery graphic, it now dissapears after 5-15 min or so on the charger. Jun 27 23:31:13 sup Jun 27 23:31:18 Looks like PreCentral isn't gonna be worried about SDK stuff in their forums: http://www.precentral.net/webos-sdk-leaks-out Jun 27 23:31:25 lots of stuff to see with this find command: root@castle:/var/home/root# find / -name "*attery*" Jun 27 23:31:39 yeah they werent moderating any threads rw Jun 27 23:32:20 it will be interesting to see the reaction to questions about the SDK in #webos Jun 27 23:32:51 (from the Palm folks there - one must assume they've been briefed on how to (or not to) respond to this issue in public communications) Jun 27 23:33:00 from what i read they gave out the SDK to those who gave the most information, so if you just said "yeah i want it" you didnt get it Jun 27 23:33:43 it was also said that each sdk is "stamped" so whoever leaked is in some trouble Jun 27 23:33:56 but that coul dbe idle threats Jun 27 23:34:20 that's easy to check - people can just post an md5sum of the illegal version and a dev can say whether it matches or not. Jun 27 23:34:55 well its stamped to an individual Jun 27 23:35:15 right - if that is the case, then the md5sum of each file will be different Jun 27 23:35:46 true Jun 27 23:36:16 if someone wants to /msg me an md5sum of the illegal file, I can ask a guy I know who has the SDK legally (I'm assuming he'll be able to answer that question without breaking his NDA, but no promises) Jun 27 23:36:50 fuck the nda Jun 27 23:36:51 leak everything Jun 27 23:36:54 mac sdk, etc Jun 27 23:36:55 all of it Jun 27 23:38:00 neat Jun 27 23:38:14 MTW: every individual is of course welcome to take whatever stance they want on the legality, just don't leak it in this channel. Jun 27 23:43:05 rwhitby: presumably nothing needed on the testing front right now, right? Jun 27 23:43:51 bclancy_: not that I know of. I took the night off last night and took my son to the theatre. Jun 27 23:44:12 u see xformers? Jun 27 23:44:38 I took off much of today. there is one or two apps that I didn't test, but I'm reading the precentral thread at the moment. Jun 27 23:45:30 I discussed with people here yesterday that I should learn CSS, then JS, then webos - in that order, ... Jun 27 23:45:32 tharris-: *real* theatre. Jun 27 23:45:58 The Royal Shakespeare Company adaptation of the Wizard of Oz Jun 27 23:46:25 so unless I do "copycat development" (without understanding things), I'll probably limit my participation to testing things Jun 27 23:46:31 for the moment Jun 27 23:46:32 over Jun 27 23:46:35 ahh Jun 27 23:47:03 tharris-: he's a bit too young for the xformers movie. Jun 27 23:47:08 ahh roger Jun 27 23:47:11 mine is 20 months Jun 27 23:47:15 no xformers =p Jun 27 23:50:25 I can check the MD5 sum as well for the windows version, if someone has the sum of the leaked file. Jun 27 23:58:49 ok, someone sent me the md5sum of the illegal file, and I contacted a developer I know, and the md5sums match. Jun 27 23:59:57 so does everyone in this room just hardcore believe in copyright? Jun 28 00:00:20 I guess we need at least one more developer to check the SDK as a control. (Not suggesting your friend is the leak source.) Jun 28 00:00:33 I can check. Jun 28 00:00:43 MD5? Jun 28 00:01:01 mogren: channel policy is http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-internals-irc-channel-policy Jun 28 00:01:03 Xuzz: definitely MD7, much more reliable Jun 28 00:01:29 mogren: there are of course other channel on other networks with different policies. Jun 28 00:01:39 s/channel/channels/ Jun 28 00:01:56 rwhitby i get that, just asking a question about the motivation of that policy i guess Jun 28 00:01:59 cphelps: openssl can do that? Jun 28 00:02:19 mogren: the motivation is listed at the top of the policy Jun 28 00:02:21 Xuzz: nope, not serious Jun 28 00:02:29 00af7b88aa1bd644442e9c705d13a985 is your MD5 (not sure if its 100% uncorrupted though) Jun 28 00:02:53 cphelps: lol Jun 28 00:03:13 f1fda544c234b8f0959c79a39e3eab0c4e7f1082 is SHA1 Jun 28 00:03:27 match leaked SDK? Jun 28 00:04:32 leaked sdk md5 is the same Jun 28 00:04:38 lemme find an sha1 generator Jun 28 00:04:47 gonan be same Jun 28 00:04:55 ok, that pretty much confirms they aren't tied to a specific user Jun 28 00:05:10 so now I can leak the mac version! lol Jun 28 00:05:52 sha1 matches. Jun 28 00:05:59 same file. Jun 28 00:06:02 i know nothing Jun 28 00:06:06 =p Jun 28 00:06:11 (and mine isn't the leaked one) Jun 28 00:06:33 for future reference, I'll post the md5 of the mac version Jun 28 00:06:58 MD5(PalmSDK-Mac-0.3.4.pkg)= b2cdbc992f71e543c914fbcdbb8aca70 Jun 28 00:08:38 Xuzz: do it ;) Jun 28 00:08:55 edektor: I just did, look above :P Jun 28 00:09:13 MD5(PalmSDK-Mac-0.3.4.pkg)= b2cdbc992f71e543c914fbcdbb8aca70 Jun 28 00:09:44 the file Jun 28 00:10:19 Xuzz: bad idea. Palm can see logs of this channel Jun 28 00:10:32 cphelps: posting an MD5 is a bad idea? Jun 28 00:10:52 Xuzz: edektor wants you to post the actual file Jun 28 00:10:55 ioh Jun 28 00:10:59 I'm not going to do that >_> Jun 28 00:11:01 no I dont Jun 28 00:36:06 am I missing something or does it seem that precentral is pretty much got all the forum traffic for the Pre. are there any others that are carrying posts related to development in any significant fashion? I found some that have like 8 or 10 threads - I'm not interested in those thanks. Jun 28 00:36:23 s/is/has/ Jun 28 00:39:29 ooh, SDK leaked Jun 28 00:40:18 psykoz: yep, discussion in #webos Jun 28 00:40:38 oh I'm not going to talk about it, was just commenting, more as a "wow" Jun 28 00:42:00 ok, Wow, porting javascript apps to the pre is really REALLY simple. Jun 28 00:42:01 yeah, Palm has said: "Sad thing is we'll have to spend time dealing with this, and that'll just slow down the real work we need to finish." Jun 28 00:42:23 I have a bit of cleaning to do in terms of menus and help scenes and stuff. but I got a scientific calculator ported in about oh - 45 minutes. Jun 28 00:42:54 nice Jun 28 00:43:04 very nice . this is dead easy Jun 28 00:43:21 pre central has been around (as treo-central and visor-central) for a long time - most of the hardcore users and many palmos devs inhavited this space. Jun 28 00:43:30 anyone working on a spreadsheet app? Jun 28 00:43:33 rwhitby: what would they have to do to "deal with it" I would expect they would need to do anything. Jun 28 00:44:04 Lurking_Grue: dunno. Ask @chuq from Palm on twitter. Jun 28 00:44:06 Unless they mean get angsty. Jun 28 00:44:22 . I really haven't bothered with most of the new Pre sites. There are a hell of a lot of new members in PreCentral (just by mp perception anyway) Jun 28 00:44:25 anyone know how to link to a specific tweet? Jun 28 00:44:33 I meant wouldn't expect. :) Jun 28 00:45:02 I just saw my first real pre yesterday Jun 28 00:45:06 was nice looking :D Jun 28 00:45:18 Lurking_Grue: for a start, they don't have the resources to deal with support for a million illegal SDK users. So they need to work out how not to support those people at least. Jun 28 00:45:49 True, I would expect ignoring them would be easy. Jun 28 00:45:51 http://twitter.com/chuq/status/2359189861 Jun 28 00:46:14 imo, the SDK isn't ready for prime time Jun 28 00:46:18 http://twitter.com/chuq/status/2359198351 Jun 28 00:46:24 those are the 2 posts about it Jun 28 00:46:33 SirWill: thx Jun 28 00:48:36 jt seems to be slowing us down here too (stopping other things to process what is happening - evaluating what the effect might be) Jun 28 00:49:25 They should release Mojo SDK Beta. :-) Jun 28 00:50:10 How about a IRC client for pre? Jun 28 00:50:47 so i'm trying to get sftp working. when i try and make the filesystem writable (using sudo), it says there is a parsing error Jun 28 00:51:02 did i not configure sudo correctly? Jun 28 00:52:30 paul___: you can use mibbit (for all by freenode) on the browser Jun 28 00:52:58 ParanoidAndroid: sudo mount -o remount,rw / ? Jun 28 00:53:10 paul___: and webchat.freenode.org for freenode chat Jun 28 00:54:07 ParanoidAndroid: sounds like it - redo the sudo setup steps Jun 28 00:54:36 Irc client for pre ought to be easy enough. Jun 28 00:55:08 >>> /opt/etc/sudoers: syntax error near line 31 <<< Jun 28 00:55:08 sudo: parse error in /opt/etc/sudoers near line 31 Jun 28 00:55:08 sudo: no valid sudoers sources found, quitting Jun 28 00:55:21 ParanoidAndroid: redo the sudo setup steps Jun 28 00:55:23 get lgpl javascript sources here: http://www.levelthreesolutions.com/jisirc/ Jun 28 00:55:28 bundle them up into a mojo app Jun 28 00:55:33 and bob's your uncle. Jun 28 00:55:36 in root i'm assuming. Jun 28 00:55:37 half-a-day's work. Jun 28 00:55:41 ParanoidAndroid: yep Jun 28 00:55:56 kk Jun 28 00:56:12 we should add a step in there for people to test sudo before they continue. Jun 28 00:56:19 true Jun 28 01:01:08 echo $myusername blah blah blah >/opt/etc/sudoers is the issue Jun 28 01:01:23 i've had to help 4 or 5 different people because of that step Jun 28 01:01:57 because they don't have $myusername set and append an invalid line to the sudoers file Jun 28 01:02:34 PullingJ: ok, we should add an echo $myusername step in there and get people to check it says the right thing. Jun 28 01:02:59 rwhitby: or have them use visudo Jun 28 01:03:12 which checks the syntax of the sudoers file Jun 28 01:03:52 PullingJ: that introduces it's own problems with people needing to know vi syntax and stuff. Jun 28 01:03:53 ok so im at that step right now Jun 28 01:03:54 there is a way to have vi sudo use a "regular" editor like nano or joe, too Jun 28 01:03:58 test your methods on me Jun 28 01:04:10 lemme see if i can find the enviroment variable for that Jun 28 01:04:33 if it wasn't for the desire to have unique usernames so you can't guess them, we'd just have people wget a pre-written sudoers file. Jun 28 01:06:08 rwhitby: here is what the visudo man page on my linux box says: http://webos.pastebin.com/m31d364c1 Jun 28 01:06:33 i don't now how optware sudo was compiled Jun 28 01:06:44 have to do some testing i guess Jun 28 01:07:23 ok so i opened up visudo. the lines added to the end were just: Jun 28 01:07:41 ALL=(ALL) ALL Jun 28 01:07:50 so im assuming thats supposed to be: Jun 28 01:07:56 username ALL=(ALL) ALL Jun 28 01:07:58 or something like that Jun 28 01:08:00 par: yes Jun 28 01:08:04 PullingJ: optware sudo compile is in http://trac.nslu2-linux.org/optware/browser/trunk/make/sudo.mk Jun 28 01:08:35 no patches, just some configure args. Jun 28 01:08:48 --with-env-editor \ Jun 28 01:09:26 so export EDITOR=/opt/bin/nano Jun 28 01:09:33 should make visudo use nano Jun 28 01:09:51 lemme reconfigure my securecrt sessions and check it out Jun 28 01:13:45 rwhitby: worked Jun 28 01:14:02 export EDITOR=/usr/local/bin/nano Jun 28 01:14:09 after installing nano of course Jun 28 01:14:36 PullingJ: /usr/local ? Jun 28 01:14:56 that's where it showed up, lemme see if it's symlinks or something Jun 28 01:15:12 optware nano wouldn't be touching /usr/local ... Jun 28 01:15:48 root@castle:/# ls -l /usr/local/bin/nano Jun 28 01:15:48 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 13 Jun 14 12:50 /usr/local/bin/nano -> /opt/bin/nano Jun 28 01:15:57 it's /opt/bin Jun 28 01:16:10 /usr/local must be first in the path Jun 28 01:16:15 which nano returned /usr/local/bin Jun 28 01:16:44 you must have made that symlink manually Jun 28 01:16:56 prbly Jun 28 01:17:18 because i didn't have the profile.d to add /opt/bin/ to the path Jun 28 01:17:25 nod Jun 28 01:17:30 i also have sudo and visudo in there Jun 28 01:17:52 yeah, should be able to remove those symlinks now Jun 28 01:18:04 ok. had some fun with vi and fixed my sudo. thx guys. Jun 28 01:18:05 yep, i'm taking them out Jun 28 01:18:19 I'm torn on vi issues Jun 28 01:18:27 ParanoidAndroid: ok, you've got the baton to help the next person ... Jun 28 01:18:40 i'm one of the *nix admins that have poisoned by never learning vi Jun 28 01:18:59 PullingJ: I only know enough vi to install emacs :-) Jun 28 01:19:06 rwhitby: ill keep it next to my computer at all times. Jun 28 01:19:10 rwhitby: exactly Jun 28 01:19:14 rwhitby wrote: "PullingJ: ok, we should add an echo $myusername step in there and get people to check it says the right thing." Jun 28 01:19:16 If they are cutting an pasting, just change the other line to: Jun 28 01:19:18 [ -n "$myusername" ] && echo $myusername blah blah blah >/opt/etc/sudoers || echo "YOU FORGOT TO FOLLOW STEP N" Jun 28 01:19:53 why not use visudo and it's sanity checks, though Jun 28 01:20:38 "if vi confuses you /opt/bin/ipkg-opt install nano;export EDITOR=/opt/bin/nano;visudo" Jun 28 01:20:47 sup Jun 28 01:20:48 I did something bad here, I did a "sudo ipkg remove busybox" and now my Pre is stuck in an endless reboot loop Jun 28 01:20:48 I never used visudo, so I'd defer that to others' (or your) judgement Jun 28 01:21:14 not getting past the inital PALM logo screen Jun 28 01:23:00 mrjcarter, take out battery, otherwise ssh to it (if rooted), else webos doctor for you Jun 28 01:23:34 * mrjcarter hates the damn doctor Jun 28 01:23:42 The link to webos doctor is: http://www.palm.com/us/support/downloads/pre/recoverytool/index.html Jun 28 01:23:43 (in case you need it) Jun 28 01:23:55 thanks Jun 28 01:26:40 any ideas on why removing busy box would cause this type of behavior? Jun 28 01:30:26 mrjcarter: *never* use ipkg. use ipkg-opt. Jun 28 01:30:49 ok Jun 28 01:30:52 if you did ipkg remove busybox, you're gonna need the doctor. Jun 28 01:30:57 no question. Jun 28 01:31:10 since you've removed /bin/sh for a start. Jun 28 01:31:14 fantastic Jun 28 01:31:33 what the difference between ipkg and ipkg-opt? Jun 28 01:31:43 ipkg-opt doesn't screw with Palm stuff Jun 28 01:31:50 that what I was thiking Jun 28 01:32:12 what you just did is precisely why we go through the trouble of installing ipkg-opt :-( Jun 28 01:32:33 I'll chalk it up as a learning experience Jun 28 01:32:45 good thing you keep meticulous backups, hey? Jun 28 01:32:57 and by golly, by removing busybox, you're removed the entire abitlity of the linux to respond to essentially all commands... :-) Jun 28 01:33:12 well actually I just got my pre replaced so.. I had little up here besides my contacts anyway Jun 28 01:33:30 synergy saves the day :-) Jun 28 01:33:36 yes it does Jun 28 01:33:59 next time, after you root, try this: rm -r / , it's shorter to type. :-) >:-) BIG EVIL GRIN>... (don't actually do that.) Jun 28 01:34:01 and our warning on the front page of the wiki of being prepared to loose all your data at any time rings true ... Jun 28 01:34:07 Rick_, didn't didn't know I f*cked it up that bad, lol Jun 28 01:34:22 lol @Rick Jun 28 01:34:23 haha Jun 28 01:34:32 I"m not THAT new Jun 28 01:34:34 to linux Jun 28 01:34:59 looking over the various blackberry apps.... Jun 28 01:35:18 huge collection of fart apps. Not sure if that's a uniquely blackberry thing. Jun 28 01:35:36 trying to think what to write after I get this sci calc prettied up. Jun 28 01:35:45 (switching from js to mojo buttons is a lot of typing. ) Jun 28 01:36:41 Rick__: are you intending to put the sci calc source on gitorious? Jun 28 01:36:50 yes. Jun 28 01:36:57 awesome Jun 28 01:36:58 But I have now thouroughly broken it. Jun 28 01:37:16 since I have global search and replaced js form buttons with mojo buttons. Jun 28 01:37:24 which I now have to figure out how to make smaller.... Jun 28 01:37:27 Rick__: the makefile in commander should work the same for a new app. Jun 28 01:37:36 and re-hook the js Jun 28 01:37:38 yep. Jun 28 01:37:44 I started with the commander shell. Jun 28 01:38:11 Rick__: should just be a matter of changing the three or four variables at the top of the makefile. Jun 28 01:38:31 ah, remove the depends line too. I'll turn that into a variable to make it generic. Jun 28 01:38:38 and maintainer. Jun 28 01:39:36 is everyone happy to use the directory structure and filename conventions in http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/trees/master/org.webosinternals.commander as the template for new apps? Jun 28 01:40:01 I'll fix the Makefile so reusing it is just variables at the top. Jun 28 01:42:38 do I need to enter bootloader mode if webos doctor isnt recognizing me pre? Jun 28 01:46:03 yes Jun 28 01:46:24 battery out volume up and hold it battery in still holding power on Jun 28 01:47:20 oh the make file, not the button rework Jun 28 01:47:27 the button rework is going to be -- rather a lot. Jun 28 01:47:35 nothing hard, just lots and lots of typing Jun 28 01:47:39 Rick__: Makefile updated. Jun 28 01:47:42 k Jun 28 01:47:51 when I'm ready, I'll ask you about it. Jun 28 01:48:00 probably a couple of days. Jun 28 01:48:16 what does a bsd license mean in english? Jun 28 01:49:12 ok so entering bootloader isn't working Jun 28 01:49:35 Rick__: we're using MIT license, which means that anyone can use it, but they need to retain your copyright on the source files. They do not need to credit you in documentation or in the binary. Jun 28 01:50:13 yes, I know. I was looking over some javascript sources that said BSD license. Wonder to what extent that means they're reusable. Jun 28 01:50:18 BSD licenses sometimes have an attribution clause. Jun 28 01:50:41 if they have an attribution clause for the binary, you just need to list that in your documentation. Jun 28 01:51:26 in all cases, you need to retain the original copyright in the code. Jun 28 01:51:52 if the license allows you to modify the code (which BSD does), then you just add your copyright line after the existing ones Jun 28 01:52:01 so am I permanently screwed if I can't get into bootloader? or is there another option? Jun 28 01:52:21 mrjcarter: we haven't met a case yet where you can do bootloader doctor Jun 28 01:52:46 describe precisely each and every step you take, starting with the battery out of the device and the usb cable unplugged. Jun 28 01:53:12 someone here (not me, cause I don't have a Pre) will check your steps. Jun 28 01:53:32 Pre unlplugged, no battery in the device I"m holding the UP volume rocker button Jun 28 01:53:38 oops, I meant "where you *can't* do bootloader doctor" Jun 28 01:54:09 while holding it down I insert the battery, still holding down the UP button I press and hold the power button for a couple seconds until the device turns on Jun 28 01:54:11 mrjcarter: define bootloader Jun 28 01:54:37 tmzt: I expect he means bootie Jun 28 01:54:52 which is on sd? Jun 28 01:55:00 sorry if I'm using the wrong terminology here Jun 28 01:55:02 the difference between the various loading options is not exposed to the end user Jun 28 01:55:03 not the omap3 rom bootloader? Jun 28 01:55:15 mrjcarter: continue with your terminology, it's fine. Jun 28 01:55:28 he wants the rom function that brings up the big usb connector icon full screen and lets webosdr run Jun 28 01:55:46 holding the UP button, the Pre starts up, I get to the PALM logo, but then it resets again Jun 28 01:55:47 yeah, wasn't arguing that, wondered how far it got Jun 28 01:55:52 and continues to loop Jun 28 01:55:59 uh, he may ned to have the USB in before he does this. Jun 28 01:56:11 I forget Jun 28 01:56:12 is it possible to join the gitorious project? Jun 28 01:56:23 i created an account. Jun 28 01:56:27 ParanoidAndroid: if you've got some code to contribute, yes. Jun 28 01:56:38 anyone can clone it Jun 28 01:56:47 (if you just want to use the code that's there) Jun 28 01:56:49 anyway... back to app development. I notice that the guy who did http://worldofsolitaire.com/index-dev.html has a offline javascript sources set available as a zip with a bsd license. Jun 28 01:57:07 Rick_, thats was it Jun 28 01:57:15 kk. i want to try working on a soundboard. not just a fart machine, but possibly like a stewie one or something similar Jun 28 01:57:22 porting that to mojo would be straighforward if a lot of work, and EXTREMELY COOL since he has multiple decks and essentially every solitair game I've ever heard of all in pure javascript Jun 28 01:57:28 and a mass texting app after i get my chops wet on that one Jun 28 01:57:38 but since i can see the examples without joining Jun 28 01:57:40 ill start there Jun 28 01:57:49 as soon as I plugged in the USB an empty battery logo appeared, then after holding UP and inserting the battery webos recognized it Jun 28 01:57:55 thank you all for the help Jun 28 01:58:05 ParanoidAndroid: when you've got something even in a raw initial state, let me know. Jun 28 01:58:27 mrjcarter: your penance is to write up a wiki page for the next guy. Jun 28 01:58:31 you can download the source for commader from gitourious without joining. It's a good place to start Jun 28 01:58:52 yes, mrjcarter, we need a bold link off the start page. IF YOUR PRE WILL NOT BOOT GO HERE Jun 28 01:58:53 :-) Jun 28 01:58:59 kk. im looking in the apps section, where do you suggest i start my foray? Jun 28 01:59:01 comander has native callouts? Jun 28 01:59:10 yes Jun 28 01:59:13 will do Jun 28 01:59:15 tmzt: commander uses the shell service Jun 28 01:59:23 keeping in mind i havent used git before Jun 28 01:59:25 ass close to native as we're likely to get any time Jun 28 01:59:31 is there a recommend/usable terminal yet? Jun 28 01:59:36 nope Jun 28 01:59:38 no Jun 28 02:00:04 ParanoidAndroid: what SCM's have you used before? Jun 28 02:00:23 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/trees/master Jun 28 02:00:36 none as of yet. im a java programmer still in school lol Jun 28 02:00:50 college that is (cs ftw) Jun 28 02:01:35 ParanoidAndroid: they don't teach SCM tools in CS? Jun 28 02:02:48 still sophomore, just got through core classes Jun 28 02:03:06 have to take like 40 hours of outrageously boring stuff Jun 28 02:03:19 history, music appreciation, the like Jun 28 02:03:22 heh - imho, configuration management should be the first thing taught. Jun 28 02:03:29 rwhitby, Rick__, are one of you two and admin at the wiki? I just applied to be a contributor Jun 28 02:03:30 dont i know it Jun 28 02:03:31 CMM level 2 and all that ... Jun 28 02:03:47 mrjcarter: see /msg for pw Jun 28 02:04:00 got it Jun 28 02:04:02 thank you Jun 28 02:04:08 mrjcarter: and thx for following through on your penance :-) Jun 28 02:04:30 no prob, you guys do a lot. I can at least write it up Jun 28 02:04:49 that's good, cause I'll admit I'm usually to lazy to do that. Jun 28 02:05:28 understandable Jun 28 02:06:23 Rick__: what do you think about a separate webos-applications project at gitorious ? we can then have separate repos for each "normal" (i.e. does not require internals stuff) application under that. Jun 28 02:06:30 i had a wierd thing happen, the default bookmarks have disappeared from my browser. anyone know what the default bookmarks were and where they are stored on the pre? Jun 28 02:06:55 real world programming as opposed to school stuff rule number 1 --- you need source control even if you're the only programmer. you need to commit at least daily, hourly if you're in a fugue state. Jun 28 02:07:04 here's my problem, is it seems any given setting on the email apps as far as how often to check email.. results in totally random email checking. Jun 28 02:07:28 even setting it to manual on my work exchange account results in it checking my work email at least once a day and pulling 50+ emails in Jun 28 02:07:44 and as it arrives on gmail results in delays from anywhere between 5 minutes an 2 hours Jun 28 02:07:47 what's up with that Jun 28 02:08:02 crashx-: i was just reading a threa don precentral foums that theroized that behavior is due to the fact that email checks all accounts anytime the evdo connection connects Jun 28 02:08:23 yep that's my concusion as well. Jun 28 02:08:39 that makes some sense since I turn evdo on and off throughout the day as needed due to battery Jun 28 02:08:42 but still.. lame. Jun 28 02:08:42 Manual means "whenever the silly thing wakes up. Jun 28 02:08:51 so the setting is actually "intial network connection and every XXXX time" Jun 28 02:09:34 I get maybe 12 hours out of a battery only using EVDO maybe 60-90 minutes of that time, if that Jun 28 02:10:15 i get horrible battery life when i'm at work and we go to the lab. the lab is buried deep inside a building with very poor signals Jun 28 02:10:50 i normally roam there, so i just use roam only, data roaming off when i'm going to be in that lab all day Jun 28 02:11:04 helps quite a bit Jun 28 02:11:26 is that in a ## menu? Jun 28 02:11:58 roam only is a hack on the wiki, and data roaming off is in phone prefs (so is the voice roaming settings) Jun 28 02:12:07 kthx Jun 28 02:13:38 just block your server in iptables Jun 28 02:14:03 or check the ipup script Jun 28 02:14:25 another question I was new to sprint, tried it out for a week, then ported my VZW number in.. my pre still thinks my phone number is the original Sprint number, in the device info.. and when I dial with the voice mail button, it fails.. anyone know how to change the # as far as the phone is concerned? Jun 28 02:14:57 update prl first Jun 28 02:15:02 anyone streamlined a "push the button and execute a script app" yet? i know people were working on using the flashlight app as a base for that kind of functionality Jun 28 02:15:10 how do you do that on sprint? I know how on VZW only Jun 28 02:15:10 reactivat or change mdn if needed Jun 28 02:15:23 there's a button in settings Jun 28 02:15:33 sprint.com/activate Jun 28 02:16:15 ParanoidAndroid: what's your username on gitorious? Jun 28 02:16:47 (I created the WebOS Applications project, and will add you there) Jun 28 02:17:49 PullingJ -- see commander app Jun 28 02:18:04 and the associated service Jun 28 02:18:14 it has everything you need. Jun 28 02:18:17 rick: thanks, i'll check it out Jun 28 02:18:34 hmm all you had to do on VZW was dial *228, option 2 and it updated your PRL Jun 28 02:18:37 the service will run ANYTHING ... and commander app has details on how to call it. Jun 28 02:18:37 do you get the script out put with it? Jun 28 02:18:40 ota Jun 28 02:18:57 yes, download the se3rvice and the app, and install both using ipkg-opt Jun 28 02:19:06 crashx-: all you do to update prl on your pre, is go to phone prefs Jun 28 02:19:12 and then, in commander, type a command in the top window, and the output shows in the bottom window. Jun 28 02:19:15 fun huh? Jun 28 02:19:52 rick: yeah. has great possiblities i won't talk about here amoung other things Jun 28 02:20:35 see pm Jun 28 02:21:02 PullingJ: nod Jun 28 02:22:30 of course, i've found less and less need for some of those since I can do so much with the phone anyway Jun 28 02:23:22 oh I see it Jun 28 02:23:52 crashx-: prl has nothing to do with your phone number though Jun 28 02:24:03 it is a preferred roaming list Jun 28 02:24:20 yea I know what prl is. Jun 28 02:27:05 hey guys, this is for webos development, correct? Jun 28 02:27:16 yes. Jun 28 02:27:42 nice....Anybody here familiar with Mojo? I installed the SDK today and I've been having some trouble with it. I just had a few questions. Jun 28 02:27:44 dkatz: #webos is for webos development. this channel is for discussing the internals of webos. Jun 28 02:27:45 sweet "update network settings" seems to have corrected my phone number Jun 28 02:27:49 oh Jun 28 02:28:05 dkatz: theres some overlap of course. Jun 28 02:28:08 and indeed my voice mail button works now Jun 28 02:28:22 oh, my original web bookmarks were still there, you only get thumbnails for the first 12 bookmarks in your list and they fell of the bottom. Jun 28 02:28:32 i guess i'll ask my question and see if it applies then, i apologize in advance if not Jun 28 02:28:43 dkatz: but Palm folks set up #webos for SDK discussion, so it should be used for that. Jun 28 02:28:52 okay, thanks then =) Jun 28 02:28:58 peace Jun 28 02:29:10 lots of people here in that channel too :-) Jun 28 02:31:45 PullingJ: directly no, but the otap process should update mdn as well Jun 28 02:32:02 webos busy tonight Jun 28 02:32:51 reflashing my pre Jun 28 02:33:03 couldn't install any apps w/ the sdk tools Jun 28 02:33:04 tmzt: isn't that the update network settings button? Jun 28 02:33:12 just so I'm using the correct terminology on the page I'm creating, doing the "Up button" brings the Pre into ______ mode Jun 28 02:33:20 bootloader? bootie? Jun 28 02:33:42 mrjcarter: there's a palm knowledge base FAQ page for that I think Jun 28 02:33:50 that would have the correct terminology in it. Jun 28 02:33:59 ok Jun 28 02:34:37 PullingJ: yes Jun 28 02:35:36 on a side note, i drove from georgia to michigan yesterday, and for about 200 miles i had no data connection because of an interrupted "update network settings" Jun 28 02:36:24 i had to get back into a sprint area and run update network settings again. actually some of the time i was in a sprint 1x area but for some reason it wouldn't work Jun 28 02:36:59 so whats up Jun 28 02:41:40 hey all, i got myself in a bit of a stupid situation and could use a brain storm out of it ... so was changing my shell to bash on root and my personal account, being dumb i changed /etc/passwd before anything else then putty froze up and i can't reconnect ... any way around this? Jun 28 02:42:04 and does anyone know if any of the other accounts are usable to login? Jun 28 02:42:05 devmode on, telnet in as root and fix it Jun 28 02:42:20 right, can't do that, i changed root to bash also Jun 28 02:42:33 *sigh* i knew better than to do that Jun 28 02:42:51 is the fs in rw mode right now? Jun 28 02:42:53 and even logging in via telnet tells me that the bash shell is not available Jun 28 02:42:57 should be yes Jun 28 02:43:10 then use sftp/scp to put bash on it Jun 28 02:43:40 or actually just put sh again as /bin/bash Jun 28 02:44:01 i don't know if busybox will work right in that case but it's worth a try Jun 28 02:44:01 this is a good idea Jun 28 02:44:23 lemme see if i put sftp on there or not Jun 28 02:44:27 otherwise get /bin/bash from someone who has it installed Jun 28 02:44:59 did you add the sftp-server to sudoers? Jun 28 02:45:08 because root can't login in over ssh Jun 28 02:45:40 yea no just realized did not add it to sudoers, crap Jun 28 02:45:56 if you had Jun 28 02:45:57 myusername ALL=NOPASSWD: /opt/libexec/sftp-server Jun 28 02:46:08 def didn't do that Jun 28 02:46:10 then you could mess with the root fs as your users Jun 28 02:46:23 i had this thing fully hacked out a week ago Jun 28 02:46:49 you maybe able to email your self a link to the .ipk Jun 28 02:47:02 then the phone's screen went bad and i had to have it replaced, finally got around to redoing the hacks after a week and made a dumb mistake :) Jun 28 02:47:07 oooohhh Jun 28 02:47:20 i haven't messed around with installing apps over email links, though so i don't know what is possible there Jun 28 02:47:30 think i can modify /etc/passwd with an ipk, that just might work Jun 28 02:47:40 yea i'll have to look into how Jun 28 02:47:55 mailed ipks do NOT execute scripts. Jun 28 02:47:56 try emailing a link to the bash ipk Jun 28 02:47:57 not Jun 28 02:48:08 ah ok Jun 28 02:48:33 a postinstall script in an ipk will execute if done with ipkg or with ipkg-opt but not with email Jun 28 02:48:35 but wait, what about the webos-commander one? Jun 28 02:48:55 you just need an ipk that puts a valid shell in /bin/bash Jun 28 02:48:56 it's ipkg-opt only will not ever be emailable. it's unsigned on purpose Jun 28 02:49:01 yeah Jun 28 02:49:04 perhaps Jun 28 02:49:57 if you can't get /bin/bash or edit our /etc/passwd you're prbly in webosdoctor land Jun 28 02:50:11 what about this: http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/188945-org-webosinternals-shell-org-webosinternals-commander.html Jun 28 02:50:40 if you have a user that you did not change the shell for that is a sudoer, you could probably login as them and sudo (or even sudo su) Jun 28 02:51:13 yea i don't, i wasn't thinking and changed myself AND root at the same time Jun 28 02:51:25 k Jun 28 02:52:25 I like to create an alias for root (haven't done so on my pre yet) Jun 28 02:53:28 commander requires root access to run ipkg-opt to install the service Jun 28 02:53:54 once you HAVE commander, then it's cool.. but if you kill bash, then commander won't run either, since it's CALLING sh with an exec call from the java Jun 28 02:54:03 ah Jun 28 02:54:07 if ssh works, you might try 'ssh root@mypre "ln /bin/sh /bin/bash"' Jun 28 02:54:12 yea i see that now Jun 28 02:54:35 commander is very cool, and I'm extremely pumped to have worked on it with cphelps, but it does have its limits Jun 28 02:54:45 like, there has to be a shell there. Jun 28 02:55:03 well godspeed still has /bin/sh Jun 28 02:55:07 just no users that use it Jun 28 02:55:17 fair enough ... so thoughts on that, yea anyway you can use /bin/sh if it can't find /bash? Jun 28 02:55:44 I notice that commander doesn't seem to deal with multiple pipe commands on a line (haven tried shoving things into a set of parens) Jun 28 02:55:45 so, if he had already installed commander, he could use it to copy sh from /media/internal to the rightful palce. Jun 28 02:55:51 but he doesn't have it installed.... Jun 28 02:56:22 yeah, i'm about out of backdoors for him Jun 28 02:56:35 :) Jun 28 02:56:52 goo: did passing a command over ssh work? Jun 28 02:57:00 doesn't seem to Jun 28 02:57:03 sadly Jun 28 02:57:08 too bad Jun 28 02:57:15 yup :/ Jun 28 02:57:21 ah i appreciate the brain storming Jun 28 02:57:30 how bout ssh pre /bin/sh Jun 28 02:57:54 ssh is prbly still going to try and run whatever command in your default shell i'd guess Jun 28 02:58:31 anybody else noticing that the wiki is slow right now? Jun 28 02:58:43 i imagine you could do it with some python Jun 28 02:58:49 and devmode Jun 28 02:58:53 i'm getting a 500 error on the wiki Jun 28 02:59:03 or does all the talk.py depend on /bin/sh Jun 28 02:59:27 wiki is nice and fast here. Jun 28 02:59:27 i haven't even looked into what devmode does ... that's worth an idea Jun 28 02:59:30 the "command" (quoted" part of ssh command) is not supposed to use the login shell Jun 28 02:59:41 ah the wiki is back, nvm **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jun 28 02:59:57 2009