**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 29 02:59:56 2009
Jun 29 03:00:14 <rwhitby> I'm sure that just like Google, Palm will remove any personally identifying information before using those dumps ... ;-)
Jun 29 03:00:35 <nemix> route them to your machine...they might come in handy :)
Jun 29 03:00:39 <xcomp> oh lookie
Jun 29 03:00:45 <xcomp> a java dump file
Jun 29 03:00:54 <tharris-> turn on core dumps and have some fun =p
Jun 29 03:00:55 <xcomp> Message: com.palm.pimsync.services.FatalSyncException: java.lang.NullPointerException
Jun 29 03:00:55 <rwhitby> Those people running the leaked emulator will also be reporting this stuff, and you can bet it will have some sort of id in there ...
Jun 29 03:01:13 <xcomp> i wonder if that was where the phone crashed
Jun 29 03:01:29 <xcomp> it was trying to sync to google
Jun 29 03:01:31 <mdmogren> how can there be an ID in the emulator when the MD5 is the same on all of them
Jun 29 03:01:31 <tharris-> check /var/minicores =p
Jun 29 03:02:11 <rwhitby> mdmogren: perhaps when someone connects to the google mail, or facebook account ...
Jun 29 03:02:28 <mdmogren> i doubt palm cares that much
Jun 29 03:02:30 <xcomp> overview.txt in the tarball "# Remote Diagnostics - Overview"
Jun 29 03:02:37 <xcomp> REPORT_CAUSE=Java Exception
Jun 29 03:02:41 <rwhitby> mdmogren: I agree
Jun 29 03:02:51 <mdmogren> i'm guessing they could face some serious legal repercussions for that - invasion of privacy
Jun 29 03:02:51 <rwhitby> but they could if they wanted to ...
Jun 29 03:03:06 <mdmogren> the person downloading the leak isn't breaking any contracts...
Jun 29 03:03:10 <tharris-> im guessing its legacy from testing
Jun 29 03:03:26 <tharris-> with the card that can be played later
Jun 29 03:03:45 <rwhitby> mdmogren: ...apart from the software license agreement in the SDK I presume (Is there a click-through on it?)
Jun 29 03:04:19 <mdmogren> rwhitby - checking i can't remember
Jun 29 03:04:40 <rwhitby> I bet Palm has some fine print on the EULA when you first start the Pre about uploadind data too ...
Jun 29 03:04:46 <ultraBlack> So did anyone find out if JackieRipper's boot theme animates itself?
Jun 29 03:04:57 <RLE> anyone know were i can change my firewall rules for EVDO after SSH install?
Jun 29 03:05:00 <JackieRipper> ultraBlack: what do you mean?
Jun 29 03:05:05 <RLE> <-- linux newb
Jun 29 03:05:07 <rwhitby> RLE: dropbear or openssh?
Jun 29 03:05:13 <RLE> openssh
Jun 29 03:05:14 <ultraBlack> JackieRipper: Does it pulsate like the standard palm logo?
Jun 29 03:05:15 <JackieRipper> the two image one or the 4 image one?
Jun 29 03:05:31 <rwhitby> RLE: /etc/event.d/optware-openssh
Jun 29 03:05:31 <tharris-> pulsating is just two images
Jun 29 03:05:35 <JackieRipper> the images just fade between each other.
Jun 29 03:05:37 <RLE> thank you!
Jun 29 03:05:39 <tharris-> yeah
Jun 29 03:05:41 <rwhitby> RLE: see the comments in the file
Jun 29 03:05:47 <ultraBlack> JackieRipper: That's what I thought. Meant. Fade, not animate
Jun 29 03:05:52 <rwhitby> RLE: that's stated on the wiki page, isn't it?
Jun 29 03:05:58 <ultraBlack> JackieRipper: I didn't see you made a four image one
Jun 29 03:06:20 <JackieRipper> yes, when you run mine, the one with tux, the palm logo fades out and "got root?" fades in
Jun 29 03:06:32 <rwhitby> RLE: step 4 of http://predev.wikidot.com/openssh-install is pretty clear ...
Jun 29 03:06:34 <ultraBlack> jackieripper: cool
Jun 29 03:06:37 <JackieRipper> and the glare from the phone fades in
Jun 29 03:06:42 <tharris-> ls -al /usr/palm/sysmgr/images/palm-logo* for ur logos
Jun 29 03:07:01 <ihateyourband> Can there be any number? Or is it specified somewhere?
Jun 29 03:07:11 <ihateyourband> * logos
Jun 29 03:07:34 <JackieRipper> ihateyourband: the 4 picture log is for separate boot and shudown animations
Jun 29 03:07:41 <JackieRipper> 4 logo*
Jun 29 03:07:48 <ultraBlack> nice.
Jun 29 03:07:52 <JackieRipper> two for boot, two for shutdown
Jun 29 03:08:02 <JackieRipper> http://predev.wikidot.com/boot-themes
Jun 29 03:08:04 <rwhitby> xcomp: so, any personally identifying information in those upload tarballs?
Jun 29 03:08:50 <mdmogren> rwhitby here is the click-thru EULA http://webos.pastebin.com/f2a6a6779
Jun 29 03:09:25 <rwhitby> mdmogren: the Usage Restrictions are pretty clear ...
Jun 29 03:09:45 <xcomp> rwhitby: haven't seen anything. the tarball itself just contains a few text files of log dumps
Jun 29 03:09:53 <mdmogren> yep
Jun 29 03:09:54 <xcomp> the actual core dumps are not in there
Jun 29 03:10:14 <tharris-> you have to enable them
Jun 29 03:10:18 <tharris-> and reboot your syste
Jun 29 03:10:20 <tharris-> m
Jun 29 03:10:35 <xcomp> yeah, I'll keep it this way. :p
Jun 29 03:11:05 <tharris-> : /usr/bin/enable_coredumps
Jun 29 03:11:08 <ihateyourband> Jackie Ripper: Symlinks! Brilliant! How'd I miss that?
Jun 29 03:11:11 <xcomp> besides the bandwidth nuisance of having my pre constantly trying to upload coredumps
Jun 29 03:11:41 <tharris-> imagine not having unlimited data o.0
Jun 29 03:11:53 <rwhitby> yeah, I'm concerned about .au data plans, which charge pretty heavily and have no concept of "unlimited data" ...
Jun 29 03:11:54 <JackieRipper> ihateyourband: that way we don't have to make changes on the read-only filesystem
Jun 29 03:12:13 <JackieRipper> and thanks :)
Jun 29 03:12:26 <JackieRipper> brb, smoke break
Jun 29 03:12:27 <mdmogren> rwhitby that stinks! i was thinking of moving to au but maybe not
Jun 29 03:12:45 <rwhitby> mdmogren: same with broadband.  no unlimited plans.
Jun 29 03:12:54 <xcomp> really?
Jun 29 03:13:08 <rwhitby> pretty much, yeah,
Jun 29 03:13:08 <PullingJ_> anyone ever used the tool bwm before? i'd like to use it on my pre, but it doesn't look like it is in optware
Jun 29 03:13:54 <ihateyourband> JackieRipper: Seriously, that's awesome! I've been trying to wrap my head around a way to shove all of that type of theme data into the /media/internal directory without things getting overly complicated. Seems I totally missed the obvious.
Jun 29 03:13:59 <rwhitby> xcomp: http://www.internode.on.net/residential/internet/home_adsl/nakedextreme/pricing/ is an example of a *good* broadband provider in .au
Jun 29 03:14:22 <mdmogren> i easily transfer 10GB/day over my broadband i dont think i'd survive
Jun 29 03:14:41 <xcomp> mdmogren: wow...you're an extreme user
Jun 29 03:14:59 <xcomp> i probably do about the same but 95% of that is HDTV :)
Jun 29 03:15:10 <mdmogren> same here
Jun 29 03:15:30 <JackieRipper> ihateyourband: I didn't even think about symlinking directly into /media/internal...
Jun 29 03:15:32 <mdmogren> mlb.tv, hulu, torrents, etc
Jun 29 03:16:00 <xcomp> mdmogren: no, I meant actual TV, as in AT&T's IPTV service
Jun 29 03:16:02 <rwhitby> mdmogren: for unlimited plans, the price goes up quite a bit: http://www.internode.on.net/business/internet/corporate_internet/internode_shdsl/pricing/
Jun 29 03:16:22 <mdmogren> ah, i dont even have a television, which is probably why i use so much data bandwidth
Jun 29 03:16:23 <JackieRipper> it may be worth a test... I worry that the directoty may get not be mounted soon enough to use files from it for the boot logo
Jun 29 03:16:27 <xcomp> $160 for a 100GB/mo quota -- that's harsh
Jun 29 03:16:33 <xcomp> even in au dollars
Jun 29 03:16:59 <rwhitby> 1 AUD ~= 0.80 USD at the moment.
Jun 29 03:17:21 <rwhitby> I live with 12GB/mo at home.
Jun 29 03:17:52 <rwhitby> needless to say I don't even have a PTP application installed on my network ...
Jun 29 03:17:52 <xcomp> rwhitby: in other words, what I pay for unlimited internet + 300 channels of TV
Jun 29 03:18:28 <bclancy> JackieRipper:  I'm not sure I understand step 5
Jun 29 03:18:36 <rwhitby> yeah, but you'd have to pay *me* to watch most of those channels ...
Jun 29 03:18:59 <xcomp> yeah, you do have a point
Jun 29 03:19:14 <xcomp> most of it is garbage
Jun 29 03:19:17 <JackieRipper> bclancy: how can I make it clearer?  it /is/ a bit techie
Jun 29 03:19:28 <jdub> pay tv has very low market penetration in .au, too
Jun 29 03:19:44 <rwhitby> yep, I don't have pay tv
Jun 29 03:19:56 <missing|No> hey all
Jun 29 03:20:30 <jdub> rwhitby: why do i recognise your name, btw? :)
Jun 29 03:20:30 <bclancy> JackieRipper:  I saw a sudo and then a "mnus something" but it looked like the command being sudo'e was missing - I haven't done a man on sudo yet.
Jun 29 03:20:44 <JackieRipper> hmmm
Jun 29 03:20:55 <missing|No> stupid question, anyone get webOS to boot in QEMU yet?
Jun 29 03:21:12 <bclancy> JackieRipper:  I aed a note to the wiki saying we are still developing and testing this part of the hack
Jun 29 03:21:13 <rwhitby> jdub: hp200lx, emacs, nslu2-linux, openembedded, openwrt, openmoko, ... ?
Jun 29 03:21:18 <JackieRipper> bclancy: ohhhhhh missing a "cp"
Jun 29 03:21:39 <rwhitby> jdub: linux-sa ?
Jun 29 03:21:50 <bclancy> JackieRipper:  that's what I thought - I'm not sure you need the -i in that case
Jun 29 03:22:03 <jdub> rwhitby: ah, and that your blog about all-of-the-above is on planet LA :-)
Jun 29 03:22:26 <bclancy> JackieRipper:  next line below that has a similar problem?
Jun 29 03:22:29 <JackieRipper> eh, I always like to use cp -ip when making backups... saves me from overwriting previous backups
Jun 29 03:22:37 <missing|No> 'cause I *almost* got webos to boot in qemu -.-
Jun 29 03:22:44 <JackieRipper> bclancy: no, sudo -e will call the editor
Jun 29 03:22:57 <missing|No> managed it once then it wouldn't let go of my cursor despite as much Ctrl-Alt I gave it
Jun 29 03:23:05 <bclancy> JackieRipper:  OK on line 1, thx for line 2
Jun 29 03:23:33 <rwhitby> jdub: heh - I'd forgotten that was there ...
Jun 29 03:25:04 <tharris-> embedded in /usr/bin/mediaserver file http://device.sprintpcs.com/Palm/Palm100HK/latest
Jun 29 03:27:22 <bclancy> JackieRipper:  Instead of "At the very end of the file, add the following:" should we say, "before the last line of the file, add the following:"?
Jun 29 03:27:50 <JackieRipper> If you think that's clearer, I'm fine with that :)
Jun 29 03:28:33 <JackieRipper> tharris-: so is "/home/reviewdaemon/projects/nova/oe/build_palm_castle_release/work/mediaserver-1.0.0-145.14/145.14/Src/MediaPipelines.c"
Jun 29 03:28:38 <bclancy> You should have a == on this line of script:
Jun 29 03:28:40 <bclancy>     if [ "$ok" = "yes" ] ; then
Jun 29 03:28:57 <tharris-> yeah thre are a few references like that Jackie in that file
Jun 29 03:28:59 <JackieRipper> this is shell, not c
Jun 29 03:29:16 <tharris-> huh
Jun 29 03:29:17 <JackieRipper> if [ a = a ] ; then
Jun 29 03:30:01 <bclancy> read the man for the shell, == is a string comparison
Jun 29 03:30:28 <JackieRipper> for the bourn shell?
Jun 29 03:30:34 <JackieRipper> http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?test
Jun 29 03:30:42 <tharris-> guess you would have to ask which shell =p
Jun 29 03:30:50 <JackieRipper> STRING1 = STRING2 	      the strings are equal
Jun 29 03:31:18 <bclancy> wow, maybe I'm wrong
Jun 29 03:31:37 <JackieRipper> assignments have no spaces - x=1
Jun 29 03:31:40 <jdub> bclancy: [ is test (so man test)
Jun 29 03:31:59 <JackieRipper> comparisons have braces and spaces [ "$x" = 1 ]
Jun 29 03:32:51 <no1leftypitcher> sorry guys i'm new to linux, but how do you run a .sh file
Jun 29 03:33:01 <bclancy> I know that, I've always seen == for sting equaliry and -eq for numeric equality - I just need to read the manpage to be sure - yes, the [ command is test
Jun 29 03:33:55 <tharris-> png_create_info_struct png_write_info png_create_write_struct png_set_IHDR png_write_end png_write_row found in BrowserService, wonder if that means tehy will let us save png files
Jun 29 03:34:53 <JackieRipper> no1leftypitcher: if it's executable, you either specify the full path: /path/to/file.sh  or if it's in your current directory, you run ./file.sh
Jun 29 03:35:17 <no1leftypitcher> thanks jackie
Jun 29 03:37:47 <bclancy> JackieRipper:  looks like in a shell command, [ is a built-in, and the string comparison op for equality is ==
Jun 29 03:37:49 <bclancy> Perhaps both forms work.  I never noticed that the test command had the form you use.
Jun 29 03:37:51 <bclancy> We should probably convince ourselves of of why both forms work?
Jun 29 03:38:49 <RLE> anyone looked into the touchstone? its screensaver? app location? etc?
Jun 29 03:39:04 <JackieRipper> bclancy: == works for compatability with other shells
Jun 29 03:39:42 <JackieRipper> however, grep if /etc/init.d/* shows us that if [ something = something ] is proper
Jun 29 03:40:12 <JackieRipper> mountall.sh:	if [ x$WIPE = xwipe ]; then
Jun 29 03:40:38 <JackieRipper> ppp:      if [ "$RUNFILE" = "1" ]; then
Jun 29 03:40:47 <bclancy> If the init scripts are using the "=" form, you convinced me that maybe I need to change a bad habit - thx
Jun 29 03:42:18 <JackieRipper> I'm still trying to figure out what shell /bin/sh really is.  Is it the standard bourne shell?
Jun 29 03:44:31 <tharris-> lol error message found in strings "stupid user unplugged phone without ejecting. don't do that"
Jun 29 03:44:43 <JackieRipper> It can do arithmetic like x=$((x + 1))
Jun 29 03:44:55 <tharris-> LunaSysMgr
Jun 29 03:44:55 <destinal> yeah "[" is actually a program
Jun 29 03:45:18 <JackieRipper> which I thought was a bashism, but it doesn't understand !$ - which bash would
Jun 29 03:46:14 <destinal> oh apparently a shell builtin in bash but very commonly a symlink to the "test" program
Jun 29 03:46:31 <tharris-> lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            7 Dec 31  1999 /bin/sh -> busybox
Jun 29 03:46:35 <tharris-> annoying
Jun 29 03:47:15 <destinal> yeah, "ipkg-opt install bash" is your friend :)
Jun 29 03:47:33 <tharris-> oh me, im set =p
Jun 29 03:48:02 <JackieRipper> I think it's ash
Jun 29 03:48:02 <destinal> was offering it up to JackieRipper
Jun 29 03:48:03 <bclancy> JackieRipper:  I'm not sure it worked for me and it took seemingly longer to shutdown and reboot - I'll debug in case I made a mistake somewhere.  I diidn't see the new images ether.  I probably made a mistake, I'll trace it down,
Jun 29 03:49:16 <JackieRipper> Derivatives of ash are installed as the default shell (/bin/sh) on FreeBSD, NetBSD, DragonFly BSD and Minix. ash is also fairly popular in embedded Linux systems; its code was incorporated into the BusyBox catch-all executable often employed in this area.
Jun 29 03:49:30 <JackieRipper> That makes sense, then
Jun 29 03:49:31 <jdub> better to just not put bashisms in your shell scripts :-)
Jun 29 03:49:48 <rwhitby> JackieRipper: /bin/sh is busybox on the Pre
Jun 29 03:49:50 <bclancy> JackieRipper:  /bin/sh is definitely not bash - just echo $RANDOM and see nothing to prove that
Jun 29 03:49:59 <JackieRipper> yeah
Jun 29 03:50:08 <destinal> I love the optware feed, the fact that I can install util-linux and immediately be able to run fdisk on the phone itself is very very handy, and that's just one example of many
Jun 29 03:50:19 <rwhitby> any scripts with bashism in them should have #!/bin/bash at the top
Jun 29 03:50:19 <JackieRipper> but I was surprised to see $((x + 1)) somewhere
Jun 29 03:50:29 <JackieRipper> the regular bourne shell can't do that
Jun 29 03:50:38 <bclancy> yep
Jun 29 03:50:39 <JackieRipper> but apparently, ash can
Jun 29 03:50:52 <missing|No> I wonder if someone can somehow dump the flash memory on the phone
Jun 29 03:51:10 <destinal> you can dump the flash memory on the phone with dd
Jun 29 03:51:13 <rwhitby> destinal: yeah, it's so handy on a new embedded device as soon as the optware feed is working.
Jun 29 03:51:21 <missing|No> see, I don't have a Pre myself but I'm trying to get qemu to boot it
Jun 29 03:51:27 <tharris-> : /var/log/uploadd/uploadd-history.txt not a nice file
Jun 29 03:51:30 <bclancy> busybox might have just added that so they don't have to add the expr command to the release
Jun 29 03:51:30 <destinal> rwhitby: poof, instant distro.  very nice
Jun 29 03:51:58 <bpadalino> missing|No: i've had no luck getting qemu to boot properly ... unfortunately
Jun 29 03:52:04 <JackieRipper> bclancy: according to wikipedia, ash can do that
Jun 29 03:52:13 <missing|No> I have a copy of the SDK and I can *almost* get it to boot in QEMU x86
Jun 29 03:52:20 <bclancy> you might be right
Jun 29 03:52:55 <destinal> missing|No: uh, that should be easy, I'd think.  it's qemu arm that's hard
Jun 29 03:53:02 <bpadalino> from what they've provided in the web doctor jar, i could not get it to boot using a cortex a8 target
Jun 29 03:53:33 <missing|No> "Please wait: booting..."
Jun 29 03:53:38 <no1leftypitcher> why would I get a permission denied when I try to run a .sh file?
Jun 29 03:53:46 <destinal> the sdk emu image is essentially a standard x86 linux box, it'll run under virtualbox or vmware
Jun 29 03:53:47 <bpadalino> becuse the 'x' bit is not set on the file
Jun 29 03:53:54 <missing|No> then upstart throws a few <app> terminated with status <1/2>
Jun 29 03:54:03 <jdub> no1leftypitcher: just use "sh <filename>"
Jun 29 03:54:08 <missing|No> ... THAT'S new
Jun 29 03:54:13 <missing|No> just threw me a stack trace
Jun 29 03:54:32 <no1leftypitcher> nice jdub thanks
Jun 29 03:54:37 <missing|No> aaaaaand glowing palm logo
Jun 29 03:55:17 <destinal> yeah, as I was saying it's a pretty vanilla x86 vm.  you can even enable sound in virtualbox and ALSA will pick up the sound chip
Jun 29 03:55:21 <everfine_> is there a modification to delete all photos or multi-delete photos in the photoroll?
Jun 29 03:56:22 <m3ga> is the disk device of pre partitioned? if so can someone post 'fdisk -l'?
Jun 29 03:57:01 <jdub> m3ga: lvm! :-)
Jun 29 03:57:04 <jdub> check this: http://blogs.gurulabs.com/dax/2009/06/palm-pre-webos.html
Jun 29 03:57:59 <JackieRipper> m3ga: it is partitioned, but fdisk is not installed
Jun 29 03:58:32 <jdub> m3ga: rather amusing (but sensible) to see lvm used on a phone ;-)
Jun 29 03:58:33 <destinal> ipkg-opt install util-linux   will fix that for you
Jun 29 03:59:02 <destinal> then you can just fdisk -l
Jun 29 03:59:38 <m3ga> can someone do it? i'm in .au and we son't see a palm pre for at least a year.
Jun 29 03:59:53 <m3ga> my best bet is getting it running in qemu
Jun 29 03:59:55 <jdub> m3ga: looking like aug/sep atm
Jun 29 04:00:37 <m3ga> i'll believe that when i see it ;-)
Jun 29 04:00:37 <missing|No> so, who's "Virtura"?
Jun 29 04:00:57 <jdub> missing|No: no one, it's just a "virtual" phone network for the vm
Jun 29 04:00:58 <JackieRipper> m3ga: http://predev.pastebin.com/m31d738c8
Jun 29 04:01:01 <missing|No> ah lol
Jun 29 04:01:07 <missing|No> yeah, it's got really glitchy graphics
Jun 29 04:01:34 <m3ga> thanks JackieRipper
Jun 29 04:01:36 <jdub> JackieRipper: thanks, that's going to make qemu arm attempts much easier
Jun 29 04:02:12 <missing|No> hm
Jun 29 04:02:41 <missing|No> I wish someone could dd one into a drive image
Jun 29 04:03:09 <m3ga> missing|No: geez that would be awesome!!!
Jun 29 04:03:23 <missing|No> well, I have *sorta* x86 process
Jun 29 04:03:46 <bclancy> JackieRipper:  I had missed the step to remove the orig images and to create the symlinks.  It's working now.
Jun 29 04:03:53 <JackieRipper> cool
Jun 29 04:04:10 <missing|No> http://i41.tinypic.com/2yllpg6.jpg
Jun 29 04:04:39 <destinal> why not just use virtualbox?
Jun 29 04:04:44 <missing|No> Won't run for me -.-
Jun 29 04:04:54 <destinal> odd
Jun 29 04:04:56 <missing|No> YAY people don't give a shit for Windows 2000
Jun 29 04:05:15 <bclancy> JackieRipper:  thanks
Jun 29 04:05:24 <bpadalino> anyone here running linux who can try using a driver to get a terminal on their pre for me ?
Jun 29 04:05:29 <JackieRipper> if anyone wants to take a look at this, I'd be grateful http://predev.wikidot.com/message-sound
Jun 29 04:05:40 <destinal> missing|No:  they claim it runs ifne on win2k
Jun 29 04:05:42 <destinal> fine
Jun 29 04:05:50 <missing|No> the installer won't run
Jun 29 04:05:53 <jdub> m3ga: thankfully the installed system doesn't appear to require the lvm setup (assuming it might also run on a vm), so we shouldn't have to dick with that to get it booting
Jun 29 04:06:04 <destinal> missing|No: so don't use the installer, make your own virtualbox config from scatch
Jun 29 04:06:12 <missing|No> I can't even *install Virtualbox*
Jun 29 04:06:32 <destinal> I'd file it as a bug, again they claim support..
Jun 29 04:06:43 <missing|No> the Windows Installer fires up
Jun 29 04:06:45 <missing|No> then halts
Jun 29 04:06:46 <missing|No> then exits
Jun 29 04:06:50 <bpadalino> file a bug ?
Jun 29 04:07:21 <missing|No> they'll probably go 'GET XP OR VISTA'
Jun 29 04:07:32 <bpadalino> did you sign the nda with them ?
Jun 29 04:07:38 <missing|No> *cough*
Jun 29 04:07:42 <destinal> bpadalino: no I'm talking about SUN
Jun 29 04:07:45 <destinal> they make virtualbox
Jun 29 04:07:47 <bclancy> JackieRipper:  I'll pass on the message-sound hack.  If you don't get any other takers, I'll step in and test and then back it out afterwards
Jun 29 04:07:49 <bpadalino> oh
Jun 29 04:07:53 <missing|No> VirtualBox won't run
Jun 29 04:07:54 <bpadalino> you mean Oracle ?
Jun 29 04:07:55 <missing|No> is the issue
Jun 29 04:07:55 <bpadalino> :)
Jun 29 04:07:59 <destinal> heh, yeah, oracle
Jun 29 04:08:00 <destinal> now
Jun 29 04:08:05 <m3ga> jdub: i have an arm (versatilepb) running under qemu already. thats a different cpu though. the closest to the pre seems to be the cheetah.
Jun 29 04:08:08 <missing|No> the emulator installed fine
Jun 29 04:08:24 <bpadalino> m3ga, beagle is the same cpu as the pre
Jun 29 04:08:29 <bpadalino> cortex a8
Jun 29 04:08:39 <jdub> m3ga: get the beagle support stuff from the maemo garage
Jun 29 04:08:50 <destinal> m3ga: the pre uses a cortex-a8
Jun 29 04:08:59 <destinal> which is claimed supported at least in SVN
Jun 29 04:09:11 <bpadalino> but i've yet to see it do anything worthwhile
Jun 29 04:09:26 <bclancy> JackieRipper, rwhitby:  we should work out standard patch procedures for applying and backing out hacks
Jun 29 04:09:45 <m3ga> bpadalino: beagle isn't listed in 'qemu-system-arm -M ?'. i'm running git HEAD
Jun 29 04:09:48 <destinal> we need some low level qemu devs in here, maybe we can entice them..
Jun 29 04:09:49 <JackieRipper> bclancy: I'm a fan of tarballs, myself
Jun 29 04:09:57 <rwhitby> bclancy: already done, been waiting for people to test it
Jun 29 04:10:07 <bpadalino> m3ga, maemo branch
Jun 29 04:10:10 <rwhitby> JackieRipper: you can't tarball palm code
Jun 29 04:10:12 <bclancy> URL?
Jun 29 04:10:19 <JackieRipper> whenever I hack on an app, I create a tarball of the original first
Jun 29 04:10:21 <rwhitby> bclancy: ipkg-opt install quilt
Jun 29 04:10:23 <JackieRipper> to back it up
Jun 29 04:10:29 <m3ga> ok, i'll check it it. i need to get back to work :-)
Jun 29 04:10:34 <bpadalino> https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=877
Jun 29 04:10:43 <JackieRipper> rwhitby: I can if I don't distribute it
Jun 29 04:10:49 <rwhitby> JackieRipper: right
Jun 29 04:11:04 <JackieRipper> rwhitby: that's my back out procedure
Jun 29 04:11:06 <bclancy> JackieRipper:  problem with tarballs is we can't be distributing Palm intellectual property
Jun 29 04:11:43 * destinal hates the term "intellectual property".  copyrighted material is more accurate IMHO
Jun 29 04:12:33 <jdub> destinal: "restricted" is better -- you can put any terms you want on copyrighted material, thus making FLOSS work :-)
Jun 29 04:12:58 <destinal> sure, just so long as you leave out the word property I'm happy :)
Jun 29 04:13:23 <bclancy> I wasnt sure whether the code had a copyright or not, so I used a term I thought would be "safe".  (I guess it wasn't so safe.)
Jun 29 04:13:30 <JackieRipper> jdub: agreed, even if Stallman wants to call it copyleft
Jun 29 04:13:43 <rwhitby> Palm copyrighted code with no derivation or redistribution rights is what it is.
Jun 29 04:13:49 <bclancy> Intellectual Property sounds *so* much like slavery to me
Jun 29 04:14:06 <rwhitby> All code has copyright, by default.
Jun 29 04:14:19 <rwhitby> (unless otherwise marked, you can do nothing with it)
Jun 29 04:14:28 <destinal> property implies ownership rather than a limited monopoly on distribution which is what most countries copyright law provides
Jun 29 04:14:54 <Stik> *#^$&
Jun 29 04:15:18 <JackieRipper> destinal: ownership would then imply license for use rather than purchase
Jun 29 04:15:24 <rwhitby> JackieRipper: so we distribute only the patches. and the end-user gets to apply them to their own code.  no redistribution of palm code required.
Jun 29 04:15:55 <rwhitby> and what bclancy is talking about is a workflow for developing, sharing, installing, and uninstalling those patches.
Jun 29 04:16:19 <JackieRipper> rwhitby: what about context?  For example, http://predev.wikidot.com/message-sound
Jun 29 04:16:46 <JackieRipper> These instructions contain bits of palm code
Jun 29 04:16:52 <rwhitby> JackieRipper: I raised that specific issue with Palm folk over a week ago, and there has been no reaction, so we're assuming they're ok with context diffs.
Jun 29 04:16:54 <JackieRipper> did I go too far?
Jun 29 04:17:37 <rwhitby> (of course I didn't ask their legal folk, so that could change at a moment's notice, but context diffs are commonly accepted to not infringe copyright.
Jun 29 04:17:43 <miun> how do i root the palm emulator?
Jun 29 04:17:58 <jdub> miun: just ssh to it
Jun 29 04:18:00 <destinal> JackieRipper: the wiki page has large excerpts of the original code, yes?  that *may* be an issue
Jun 29 04:18:19 <miun> what the emulator address?
Jun 29 04:18:22 <rwhitby> miun: questions on how to use the Palm emulator should be asked in #webos, where the Palm folks can answer them.
Jun 29 04:18:33 <jdub> miun: you'll have to figure that out based on your setup :-)
Jun 29 04:19:22 <miun> c'mon, give me a hint
Jun 29 04:19:23 <destinal> JackieRipper: and I say maybe because it might fall under fair use.  but at lease with diffs we know it's safe
Jun 29 04:19:46 <destinal> s/lease/least/
Jun 29 04:19:48 <rwhitby> miun: jdub just did.  a second hint is "precentral"
Jun 29 04:19:50 <JackieRipper> aye
Jun 29 04:21:36 <rwhitby> JackieRipper: so we're trying to get all the mods to be recorded as patches (using diff -u, from /) and into the git repo.  then the wiki can just refer to those patch files.
Jun 29 04:21:44 <rwhitby> and then users don't need to manually type them in.
Jun 29 04:22:03 <rwhitby> they can use something like patch, or quilt, or stgit, to install them, directly on the device.
Jun 29 04:22:10 <JackieRipper> rwhitby: sounds good to me
Jun 29 04:22:39 <rwhitby> and later, a gui tool can be written when the underlying mechanism and workflow is found to be sound when dealing with multiple overlapping patches from independent developers
Jun 29 04:23:19 <bclancy> rwhitby:  ipkg-opt install quilt installs Perl?  (cool!)
Jun 29 04:23:28 <miun> would 5522 been that hard?
Jun 29 04:24:29 <rwhitby> miun: please read the policy page listed in the /topic
Jun 29 04:25:14 <rwhitby> ParanoidAndroid: I added you to http://gitorious.org/webos-applications
Jun 29 04:26:09 <rwhitby> bclancy: yeah, for the perl-hater/python-lovers they can choose stgit instead ;-)
Jun 29 04:27:07 <miun> I find it ironic that someone who doesn't doesn't own a pre, and therefore automaticly by simply downloading the webos doctor and violated palms rules, is setting the rules here...
Jun 29 04:27:53 <bpadalino> who violated palms rules ?
Jun 29 04:28:18 <miun> anyone who doesn't own a pre and download the webos doctor
Jun 29 04:28:31 <bpadalino> how so ?
Jun 29 04:28:45 <missing|No> miun, then, Palm and Sprint need to increase security on the file (ie ESN/phone number checks)
Jun 29 04:28:55 <bpadalino> there was no click-through required to get the jar file
Jun 29 04:29:00 <missing|No> to get an update for one of my phones I needed to provide the serial number and phone #
Jun 29 04:29:01 <bpadalino> a wget to the url was it
Jun 29 04:29:15 <missing|No> same thing with my Ford SYNC system, I had to provide the car's VIN to get access to the update
Jun 29 04:29:30 <missing|No> so if Palm/Sprint apply that to the WebOS Doctor... there ya go
Jun 29 04:30:02 <miun> i'm sure they do, but someone not locking there house is no excuse to steal, not to mention the url was not the primary url, but a second url after entering a serial number which was INTENTIONALY bypassed
Jun 29 04:30:13 <missing|No> oh
Jun 29 04:31:10 <bpadalino> interesting stance
Jun 29 04:31:13 <miun> im sure you'd be to blame is someone breaks into your house becuase you dont have medeco m3 locks on your doors
Jun 29 04:31:41 <destinal> miun: in this case nobody bypassed any security
Jun 29 04:32:04 <bpadalino> miun, if i left the doors open and a sign posted to take whats there, is it expected that my home is secure?
Jun 29 04:32:50 <bpadalino> miun, if you don't like the policy of the channel (or the people running it), please feel free to /part ... and i am sorry you feel that way :(
Jun 29 04:33:22 <bpadalino> there is an efnet channel which is much more open and free with their discussion
Jun 29 04:33:53 <rwhitby> I'm happy for miun to stay around and discuss the policy.  miun, what type of relationship do you want this channel to have with Palm?
Jun 29 04:38:51 <Rick__> miun -  since the konami code enabled downloading _everything_ out of a stock pre without needing webosdr (since the novacomm drivers are identical to those for the iphone)  why are you presuming that there was -any- unlawful activity, unless you have proof we're not aware of?
Jun 29 04:39:40 <BaudJames> anyone made more Boot Themes???
Jun 29 04:39:47 <lramsay> On http://predev.wikidot.com/linux-rooting, the command sudo ./novacom put file:///tmp < package.ipk seems like it should be sudo ./novacom put file:///tmp/package.ipk < package.ipk. The novacom process is not told the name of the file piped to stdin.
Jun 29 04:40:16 <rwhitby> lramsay: nice catch
Jun 29 04:40:28 <Rick__> O made my own boot themes...  it's certainly simple enough
Jun 29 04:41:09 <bpadalino> yeah, sorry about that
Jun 29 04:41:13 <bpadalino> lramsay: are you using it ?
Jun 29 04:41:14 <button> you reboot enough to see those themes?
Jun 29 04:41:17 <bpadalino> it's brand new today
Jun 29 04:41:21 <bpadalino> so i'd like some feedback
Jun 29 04:41:27 <lramsay> I'm in Australia. No Pre (or even CDMA) over here :(
Jun 29 04:41:35 <bpadalino> ah .. :(
Jun 29 04:41:42 <bpadalino> thanks for reading it over, then
Jun 29 04:41:43 <BaudJames> i just want diffrent pictures
Jun 29 04:41:54 <lramsay> I'm preparing myself for when it is available over here :)
Jun 29 04:41:55 <Rick__> mine pulses back and forth between aphoto of my family and this image http://www.sacred-destinations.com/usa/images/illinois/chicago/bahai-house-of-worship/7056-800.jpg
Jun 29 04:42:11 <m3ga> lramsay: you are def. not the only one
Jun 29 04:42:35 <JackieRipper> Rick_ that's gotta look pretty cool
Jun 29 04:42:50 <bpadalino> i was thinking of making mine the OBEY picture in the par1 ..
Jun 29 04:42:53 <JamesBaud> nice
Jun 29 04:43:07 <Rick__> bpalindino,   I am afraid I reboot mre than I should
Jun 29 04:43:14 <rwhitby> lramsay: the whole reason for this channel is to make sure the Pre can replace my Treo 650 by the time it arrives in .au ..
Jun 29 04:43:14 <bpadalino> heh
Jun 29 04:43:26 <bpadalino> we live for rwhitby's treo 650 replacement
Jun 29 04:43:27 <bpadalino> :)
Jun 29 04:43:31 <Rick__> I need to set a shortcut for the rescan, but I find myself typing pkill LunaSysMgr 'cause it's fast to type
Jun 29 04:43:36 <bpadalino> minions to make his phone perfect
Jun 29 04:43:47 <button> ew 650
Jun 29 04:43:52 <Rick__> minions of the world unite!
Jun 29 04:43:54 <lramsay> I have a Treo 650 too :)
Jun 29 04:44:00 <button> ew x 2
Jun 29 04:44:10 <|Jason8|> ew, button
Jun 29 04:44:19 <|Jason8|> i have an HTC fuze
Jun 29 04:44:21 <rwhitby> button: .au didn't really get a better Treo since then, since no cdma.
Jun 29 04:44:32 <|Jason8|> also
Jun 29 04:44:35 <button> i would have gone to alternatives
Jun 29 04:44:39 <|Jason8|> when can I run WebOS on my fuze? :P
Jun 29 04:44:48 <miun> the only reason palm tolerates this channel is because they are too small of a company to properly develop themselves, and as palm is using us, i think we need to holdtheir feet to the fire, and push the envelope rather than to be nice little boys
Jun 29 04:44:52 <Rick__> still having a hard time with the cost of data plane in au rwhitby.  sort of boggling.
Jun 29 04:45:02 <miun> treo 850?
Jun 29 04:45:14 <bpadalino> there is an image on the pre called logo-disk.tga which is this: http://bigchase.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/obey.jpg
Jun 29 04:45:23 <bpadalino> but i haven't figured out how to get it into the mode where it shows up on the pre
Jun 29 04:45:24 <miun> centro
Jun 29 04:45:42 <destinal> miun: how are we not pushing the envelope?
Jun 29 04:45:47 <Lurking_Grue> bp: Andre has a posse. :)
Jun 29 04:46:07 <button> If people wanna talk, its not like palm could regulate the internet
Jun 29 04:46:14 <destinal> bpadalino: yeah, I think it indicates a "slave" mode if you get the joke
Jun 29 04:46:18 <rwhitby> miun: that's a fair stance to take, but not the stance upon which this channel was founded.
Jun 29 04:46:30 <destinal> and slave disk given the filename
Jun 29 04:47:04 <Phazed> Hya - anyone on that can tweak the wiki?
Jun 29 04:48:01 <destinal> rwhitby: besides I think we are pushing the envelope, and doing it in a way that doesn't antagonize palm to boot :)
Jun 29 04:48:46 <bpadalino> miun, how do you want to hold palm's feet to the fire ?
Jun 29 04:48:49 <button> |Jason8|:  i think a nicer pre with aluminum casing is in order...
Jun 29 04:49:07 <|Jason8|> button: a new pre needs a better screen.
Jun 29 04:49:09 <opie_> weee, samples are fun
Jun 29 04:49:09 <|Jason8|> wvga anyone? ;)
Jun 29 04:49:16 <newman314> has anyone tried to make the boot process faster?
Jun 29 04:49:30 <Phazed> Well, if so, the page at http://predev.wikidot.com/alerts-from-usb has all the paths with \ (Dos) instead of / (Linux).  Makes cut & paste impossible
Jun 29 04:49:35 <bpadalino> newman, the boot slowdown is from luna - and i am not sure why it's so slow ..
Jun 29 04:49:39 <destinal> newman314: it seems to be all locked inside a binary bob called luna
Jun 29 04:49:48 <bpadalino> in all honesty, and looking at dmesg - it looks like a lot of timeouts are happening ..
Jun 29 04:49:49 <button> bpadalino: it is peculiar
Jun 29 04:50:10 <newman314> inside the pre dev forum, it looks like lunasysmgr is the culprit
Jun 29 04:50:19 <newman314> consuming 35 secs of cpu time
Jun 29 04:50:25 <newman314> and java taking 19 secs
Jun 29 04:50:38 <Robi_> anyone figure out how to trace a program like the browser to see where it's hung up?
Jun 29 04:50:43 <newman314> strace
Jun 29 04:51:00 <newman314> java is apache harmony so no sun 1.6 goodness.
Jun 29 04:51:10 <newman314> that could make things faster.
Jun 29 04:51:37 <Robi_> hrm, well so far, for some reason my browser which I dont recall modifying is coming up with a blank page for anything I give it
Jun 29 04:52:23 <newman314> and lunasysmgr has to launch all these apps in /etc/palm/luna.conf
Jun 29 04:52:25 <newman314> [LaunchAtBoot]
Jun 29 04:52:25 <bclancy> maybe the image means "OBEY the NDA"  :-)
Jun 29 04:52:25 <newman314> Applications=com.palm.app.phone;com.palm.app.email;com.palm.app.calendar;com.palm.app.messaging;com.palm.app.contacts;com.palm.app.camera
Jun 29 04:53:50 <bpadalino> newman314: have you taken a look at your /var/log/messages file ?
Jun 29 04:54:04 <Robi_> transformers was pretty decent, altho has some time line issues
Jun 29 04:54:19 <newman314> bpadalino yes
Jun 29 04:54:25 <newman314> many times =)
Jun 29 04:54:30 <button> transformers line was huge, gunna wait a few weeks
Jun 29 04:54:34 <ParanoidAndroid> so i'm trying to get a basic app to work, but for some reason its not showing the scene, just a blank grey background with any text i put in the body
Jun 29 04:54:42 <bpadalino> so you know what takes the long times then :)
Jun 29 04:54:49 <rwhitby> Phazed: just /msg'd you the wiki pw, thanks.
Jun 29 04:56:25 <rwhitby> ParanoidAndroid: we're asking people to use #webos for normal app development questions that are not -internals related.  We need to gently set a precedent for when the SDK is released so that this channel doesn't get clogged with webOS SDK questions.
Jun 29 04:56:41 <ParanoidAndroid> can do
Jun 29 04:57:05 <newman314> bpadalino nah I have not looked at the timings.
Jun 29 04:57:08 <newman314> good idea tho
Jun 29 04:57:10 <rwhitby> I know EvanDotPro and Rick__ have been doing a great job helping in there.  Palm should pay them ;-)
Jun 29 04:57:11 <newman314> have you?
Jun 29 04:57:17 <bpadalino> i am looking at them right now
Jun 29 04:57:23 <newman314> I was looking inside messages for something else. what do you see?
Jun 29 04:57:36 <bpadalino> lots of errors and room for improvement really
Jun 29 04:58:47 <newman314> WHOA
Jun 29 04:59:00 <newman314> I just looked after trying to get BT keyboard working
Jun 29 04:59:08 <newman314> strace didnt show anything
Jun 29 04:59:16 <newman314> but messages logged some interesting things.
Jun 29 04:59:22 <bpadalino> there is a bluetooth sniffer included called palmsniffer i believe ?
Jun 29 05:00:07 <newman314> nevermind. false alarm.
Jun 29 05:00:21 <bpadalino> it's 1am already .. yikes
Jun 29 05:00:26 <newman314> palmsniffer: never heard of it.
Jun 29 05:00:34 <destinal> you know I figured that bt keyboard would be pretty easy, but I haven't tried since I don't have one
Jun 29 05:01:01 <destinal> now you've got me thinking of using one of my wiimotes for games though :)
Jun 29 05:01:04 <bpadalino> newman314: vi /usr/bin/palmsniffer
Jun 29 05:01:28 <newman314> destinal, there is no HID profile
Jun 29 05:01:34 <newman314> and it does not use bluez
Jun 29 05:01:39 <destinal> hmmm
Jun 29 05:01:52 <bclancy> rwhitby:  for a quilt newbie, I'd like to read up on it - Was this started for us or is quilt a package adapted from somewhere else?
Jun 29 05:02:14 <rwhitby> bclancy: quilt is used a lot in linux kernel development
Jun 29 05:02:31 <bclancy> I'll google it then - thx
Jun 29 05:02:47 <rwhitby> I'll be happy if someone finds something lighter-weight than quilt for this situation, but I haven't found anything yet.
Jun 29 05:03:20 <Rick__> <--   PUMPKIN    00:00 -- time for sleep
Jun 29 05:03:32 <rwhitby> the key requirement is being able to un-apply everything before an OTA update, and then reapply, refresh the patch, and upload the new version to the repository, all on the Pre itself.
Jun 29 05:03:53 <newman314> hmm
Jun 29 05:04:00 <newman314> okay palmsniffer is just a script
Jun 29 05:04:45 <newman314> can someone do    cat /var/log/btport on their Pre and post the output?
Jun 29 05:05:16 <bclancy> yep - one thing we did in the early-mid 90's in a unix kernel shop where I worked as a release engineer, was to generate comply stamps (basically a combination of ls -l and sum -r) to know perms, ownere, locations, and sizes.checksums of files
Jun 29 05:05:43 <bpadalino> 16888
Jun 29 05:05:44 <bclancy> we then had what we called "preserve lists" which were files we wanted to perform a 3-way iff on and merge
Jun 29 05:05:49 <bclancy> worked pretty well
Jun 29 05:06:02 <rwhitby> bclancy: sounds just like quilt ;-)
Jun 29 05:06:03 <bclancy> hopefully quilt has similar cabailities
Jun 29 05:06:18 <bclancy> excellent - just what we need!
Jun 29 05:06:25 <JamesBaud> hey, can someone send me the Google Images logo from Global Search Addons Collection ?
Jun 29 05:06:41 <JamesBaud> the image on the wiki is not working
Jun 29 05:06:58 <rwhitby> bclancy: quilt doesn't have the integrity checking stuff though
Jun 29 05:07:22 <bclancy> I can write that (or help guide/specify it) if needed
Jun 29 05:07:32 <newman314> bpadalino: thanks. looks like it is standard across the board
Jun 29 05:07:42 <bpadalino> no problemo
Jun 29 05:07:43 <newman314> telnet localhost 16888
Jun 29 05:07:50 <newman314> if you have bluetooth running
Jun 29 05:08:05 <bclancy> that might be useful if Palm wants to cooperate with us - it would miniize the risk of their releases/patches failing on modded systems
Jun 29 05:08:14 <bpadalino> http://webos.pastebin.com/m3bccb2e7
Jun 29 05:08:16 <bclancy> I doubt you are worried about going there
Jun 29 05:08:37 <bclancy> but it would be really good if they wanted to cooperate on a common way of doing things
Jun 29 05:08:39 <bclancy> over
Jun 29 05:09:44 <rwhitby> bclancy: actually, we have had discussions with Palm employees about how optware can stay out of the way of OTA updates
Jun 29 05:10:26 <newman314> lol
Jun 29 05:10:36 <newman314> telnet port 16888 to start capture
Jun 29 05:10:41 <bclancy> If you ever want to fill me in, you can in a separate tab here - otherwise I'll just trust you
Jun 29 05:10:42 <newman314> telnet port 16889 to stop capture
Jun 29 05:10:54 <bpadalino> newman, actually - it gives an error on the second telnet
Jun 29 05:10:55 <Robi_> wow lots of exceptions in lunssysmgr
Jun 29 05:10:57 <Robi_> Error: Error: Caught exception in List widget 'email_list' setup(): Error: requireDefined Failed: Mojo.View.convertToNodeList now requires a target document, file:///usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.email/index.html:0
Jun 29 05:11:02 <Robi_> outdated bits?
Jun 29 05:11:06 <bpadalino> ERR: capture already started
Jun 29 05:11:17 <newman314> bpadalino, you have to telnet to port 16889 to stop the capture.
Jun 29 05:11:20 <bpadalino> ah
Jun 29 05:11:22 <bpadalino> whoops
Jun 29 05:11:24 <newman314> sneaky really =)
Jun 29 05:11:29 <newman314> okay.
Jun 29 05:11:30 <bpadalino> ERR: nothing captured
Jun 29 05:11:32 <bpadalino> hehe
Jun 29 05:11:43 <newman314> I'm starting a capture and turning my bt headset on to see what happens
Jun 29 05:11:57 <bclancy> I just realized the play on words quilt, patch  - go figure!
Jun 29 05:17:47 <newman314> erk just got a binary file
Jun 29 05:18:14 <bpadalino> whoops
Jun 29 05:18:54 <newman314> running strings on it seems to show the connection traffic
Jun 29 05:19:08 <newman314> grr. my brother took his keyboard or I would try it again
Jun 29 05:19:32 <newman314> anyone with a bluetooth HID device on the channel right now?
Jun 29 05:21:26 <bclancy> "Linux Kernel in a Nutshell", chapter: Helpful Utilities. section: Managing Your Patches With quilt
Jun 29 05:21:28 <bclancy> http://my.safaribooksonline.com/0596100795/II__tt211#X2ludGVybmFsX1NlY3Rpb25Db250ZW50P3htbGlkPTA1OTYxMDA3OTUvSUlfX3R0MjEx
Jun 29 05:21:38 <bpadalino> newman, you can probably do a hexdump to see what's happening with the file and write a simple parser
Jun 29 05:21:55 <gkatsev> is there a way to execute shell commands from an app?
Jun 29 05:23:13 <bpadalino> if you install the commander there is
Jun 29 05:23:41 <dld121> Today I setup winSCP and started looking around, has anyone else noticed this folder?  \var\log\rdxd\uploaded
Jun 29 05:23:51 <jdub> rwhitby: in what form do the OTA updates arrive? cpio blobs, ipkgs...?
Jun 29 05:24:16 <dld121> The contents of this are compressed "tgz" log files.
Jun 29 05:24:17 <newman314> i'll look more at it.
Jun 29 05:24:27 <rwhitby> jdub: we think ipkgs
Jun 29 05:24:36 <dld121> These document every command and program that executes on the phone.
Jun 29 05:24:54 <rwhitby> dld121: yep, we were discussing that before
Jun 29 05:24:55 <dld121> Anyone know where these get uploaded?
Jun 29 05:25:01 <rwhitby> back to palm
Jun 29 05:25:02 <bpadalino> dld121: big brother ?
Jun 29 05:25:10 <dld121> Looks like it.
Jun 29 05:25:22 <gkatsev> bpadalino: was that for me?
Jun 29 05:25:28 <dld121> So there aren't any secrets...
Jun 29 05:25:30 <bpadalino> gkatsev: yes - commander!
Jun 29 05:25:31 <newman314> hexdump shows no ascii
Jun 29 05:25:48 <bpadalino> newman314, hexdump -C filename | less shows no ascii ?
Jun 29 05:25:53 <bpadalino> but strings does ?
Jun 29 05:25:57 <bpadalino> that is very very odd to me
Jun 29 05:26:02 <newman314> doh
Jun 29 05:26:05 <newman314> forgot the C =)
Jun 29 05:26:05 <gkatsev> bpadalino: where/what?
Jun 29 05:26:38 <newman314> hmm. nothing very interesting.
Jun 29 05:26:40 <rwhitby> dld121: I've been wondering if the leaked emulator sends back anything identifiable in those logs
Jun 29 05:26:42 <bpadalino> gkatsev: it's around the wiki somewhere .. let me see if i can find it
Jun 29 05:27:01 <newman314> just shows the connect as well as some AT commmands
Jun 29 05:27:16 <bpadalino> rwhitby: have you not put directions on how to install the commander on the wiki yet ?
Jun 29 05:28:05 <newman314> there is CIND: ("service",(0-1)),("call",(0-1)),("callsetup",(0-3)),("callheld",(0-2)),("signal",(0-5)),("roam",(0-1)),("battchg",(0-5))
Jun 29 05:28:07 <rwhitby> bpadalino: nope, I told everyone I was lazy ...
Jun 29 05:28:27 <bpadalino> rwhitby: ah .. gkatsev: rwhitby is lazy - so you'll have to go through the logs from the topic and look for commander*.ipk
Jun 29 05:28:33 <bpadalino> :)
Jun 29 05:28:42 <gkatsev> do you have a link for the logs?
Jun 29 05:28:47 <bpadalino>  /topic
Jun 29 05:28:51 <dld121> If the manifest.txt contains all installed packages it may have it.
Jun 29 05:28:58 <rwhitby> bpadalino: I did do a precentral post
Jun 29 05:29:14 <bpadalino> ah right
Jun 29 05:29:19 <bpadalino> gkatsev: you can search for that too!
Jun 29 05:29:27 <gkatsev> lol
Jun 29 05:29:30 <bpadalino> :)
Jun 29 05:29:47 <dld121> Is that emulator something that runs on the Pre, or is that the "sdk"?
Jun 29 05:29:57 <rwhitby> gkatsev: http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/188945-org-webosinternals-shell-org-webosinternals-commander.html
Jun 29 05:30:07 <rwhitby> dld121: the "sdk"
Jun 29 05:30:13 <gkatsev> rwhitby: thanks
Jun 29 05:30:26 <dld121> Don't know if that uploads too.
Jun 29 05:30:50 <dld121> If it is a complete copy of phone then it might.
Jun 29 05:31:18 <rwhitby> it's definitely not a complete copy.  seems to be only debug info for software failures from reports here.
Jun 29 05:31:25 <dld121> Does the SDK connect to the network and access the INTERNET like the phone?
Jun 29 05:31:35 <rwhitby> yep
Jun 29 05:32:56 <Robi_> anyone have any smarter ideas on how to recover this damned blank browser
Jun 29 05:33:33 <edektor> anybody know a way that I could get the song information from the current playing track on the musicplayer and use it in another application
Jun 29 05:34:09 <destinal> edektor: I think someone said  it's sent out on DBUS, so yeah
Jun 29 05:34:12 <dld121> Here is one of the lines from the upload log file entry.  There is one entry like this for each file sent:
Jun 29 05:34:13 <dld121> 2009-06-29T04:18:25Z	upload	/var/log/rdxd/pending/rdxd-log-96.tgz	RDX-6576600
Jun 29 05:34:47 <dld121> Filename: rdxd-history.txt == log file documenting which files uploaded.
Jun 29 05:34:51 <button> Robi_: I missed it, did you already try rebooting?
Jun 29 05:34:56 <edektor> where is the dbus
Jun 29 05:35:58 <bpadalino> dbus-util --list
Jun 29 05:36:07 <bpadalino> it's a service that runs in the background
Jun 29 05:36:12 <bpadalino> supplying an IPC mechanism
Jun 29 05:36:13 <Robi_> button: not a full reboot but a restart of luna yes
Jun 29 05:36:25 <edektor> oh can I access with javascript
Jun 29 05:36:28 <Robi_> reboot seems utterly unecessary
Jun 29 05:36:46 <button> well... it might help
Jun 29 05:37:07 <bpadalino> edektor, deepnds on what is exposed to javascript .. but generally that's how messages re pased
Jun 29 05:37:23 <Robi_> i'm more interested ina  way of finding out why the browser isn't drawing the damn screen
Jun 29 05:37:46 <bpadalino> robi, people have said when there are syntax errors in their code - blank screens pop up
Jun 29 05:37:52 <bpadalino> or other types of parsing errors
Jun 29 05:38:24 <Robi_> bpadalino: es i'm aware, has that with my dialer app, fixed it as aparently JS doens't like comments within code blocks
Jun 29 05:38:30 <Robi_> on their own line that is
Jun 29 05:38:41 <bpadalino> ok
Jun 29 05:38:55 <Robi_> point is i hadn't touched the browser app
Jun 29 05:39:03 <Robi_> i can't find any recently changed files
Jun 29 05:39:13 <button> but you did reset sysmgr
Jun 29 05:39:17 <Robi_> i need better ideas
Jun 29 05:39:28 <Robi_> killall LunaSysMgr ya
Jun 29 05:40:00 <button> Is it only webpages? what about html email?
Jun 29 05:40:46 <Robi_> hah only subjects come thru
Jun 29 05:41:14 <edektor> anybody know what com.palm.mediaevents does and where it is located
Jun 29 05:41:22 <button> last time that happened to me, i reset and things worked
Jun 29 05:41:39 <Robi_> reset what
Jun 29 05:41:42 <button> the device
Jun 29 05:42:01 <Robi_> how about we use a smaller hammer
Jun 29 05:42:04 <button> heh
Jun 29 05:42:30 <Robi_> i have a 3 day uptime to keep :P
Jun 29 05:43:08 <button> i would like an uptime app....
Jun 29 05:43:11 <JamesBaud> someone needs to make a boot theme with the WebOS logo
Jun 29 05:43:23 <Robi_> for..?
Jun 29 05:43:38 <JamesBaud> so i can put it on my phone =)
Jun 29 05:43:44 <Robi_> install ud
Jun 29 05:43:51 <Robi_> and write an app to capture it's output
Jun 29 05:43:54 <Robi_> ud -d fore xample
Jun 29 05:44:19 <bsiegel> button: install Commander and run the uptime app :p
Jun 29 05:44:20 <Snake> whats the command to reboot from the shell?
Jun 29 05:44:22 <bsiegel> er, command
Jun 29 05:44:25 <bsiegel> Snake: reboot
Jun 29 05:44:30 <Snake> reboot not found
Jun 29 05:44:32 <edektor> sbin/reboot
Jun 29 05:44:36 <Snake> ah k
Jun 29 05:44:39 <Snake> its just not linked :)
Jun 29 05:44:48 <bsiegel> or shutdown -r now
Jun 29 05:44:52 <Snake> that didnt work either
Jun 29 05:44:54 <newman314> it's not set in the path
Jun 29 05:44:59 <Robi_> you probably aren't in the root env shell
Jun 29 05:45:04 <newman314>  /usr/sbin/reboot
Jun 29 05:45:07 <Robi_> did you 'su -'
Jun 29 05:45:12 <Snake> no im sudoing
Jun 29 05:45:18 <Robi_> that's another reason
Jun 29 05:45:18 <newman314> I mean /sbin/reboot
Jun 29 05:45:22 <newman314> sudo su -
Jun 29 05:45:33 <Snake> ah gotcha
Jun 29 05:45:34 <Snake> kk
Jun 29 05:45:52 <Snake> lets hope this worked
Jun 29 05:45:53 <Snake> hehe
Jun 29 05:46:16 <Snake> adding wolframalpha to my search :)
Jun 29 05:46:30 <Robi_> root     27326  0.0  8.2  98136 20300 ?        SLs  Jun27   0:12 /usr/bin/Brows
Jun 29 05:46:33 <Robi_> erServer
Jun 29 05:46:36 <Robi_> hm
Jun 29 05:46:56 <Snake> damn I wish this phone didnt take so long to boot
Jun 29 05:47:15 <psykoz> I hear you want an iPhone then!
Jun 29 05:47:24 <Robi_> they take longer
Jun 29 05:47:26 <rwhitby> Robi_: you should use quilt for your mods, then you could just quilt pop -a and be sure you're back to scratch.
Jun 29 05:47:42 <Snake> Robi_: the iphone??
Jun 29 05:47:44 <newman314> btw has anyone tried measuring the power draw between using wifi and evdo?
Jun 29 05:47:48 <Snake> That thing boots in under a minute..
Jun 29 05:47:57 <button> It is impressive
Jun 29 05:48:08 <Robi_> rwhitby: i hear ya, all my mods so far have included excessive comments that I can search on uniquely
Jun 29 05:48:15 <psykoz> newman314, I haven't measured it officially but wifi is much better if you make sure you turn it off when you're traveling
Jun 29 05:48:20 <button> the cnet comparison was pretty bad
Jun 29 05:48:31 <Robi_> Snake: if it crashes or needs to fsck it's a dog
Jun 29 05:48:37 <rwhitby> Robi_: really, setting up to use quilt will make it so much easier for you to keep mods separate, and then upload them so others can apply immediately.
Jun 29 05:48:49 <psykoz> I have tested wifi/evdo (which varies between evdo/1xRTT in my house), and I notice a considerable difference in battery life
Jun 29 05:48:56 <newman314> thx
Jun 29 05:49:00 <Robi_> there's a wiki entry i take it?
Jun 29 05:49:17 <rwhitby> Robi_: not yet, you'll be pathfinding
Jun 29 05:49:26 <newman314> I posted earlier about the excessive boot time. looks like it's mostly lunasysmgr and java
Jun 29 05:49:31 <rwhitby> quilt is tested to work in optware on the Pre though
Jun 29 05:49:48 <Robi_> i dont think i have that much time tonight
Jun 29 05:49:55 <Robi_> i'll install it tho
Jun 29 05:50:06 <Robi_> i mainly NEED my html rendering fixed
Jun 29 05:50:29 <rwhitby> it should be as easy as "quilt new foo.patch", then quilt add for each file you edit, then quilt refresh.
Jun 29 05:50:40 <rwhitby> (quilt add *before* you edit the file)
Jun 29 05:50:58 <Robi_> manual rcs
Jun 29 05:51:43 <rwhitby> Robi_: an svn checkout at / works too - just add the files you want to change.
Jun 29 05:51:58 <Robi_> lets stick to one option
Jun 29 05:52:04 <Robi_> quilt installing
Jun 29 05:52:20 <Robi_> frack its installing perl
Jun 29 05:52:24 <Robi_> damnit
Jun 29 05:52:31 <Robi_> its huge
Jun 29 05:52:38 <button> </3 ?
Jun 29 05:52:38 <Snake> wtf... port is 222 right?
Jun 29 05:52:41 <Snake> for openssh
Jun 29 05:53:06 <Robi_> oh yuk
Jun 29 05:53:18 <rwhitby> Robi_: how big is it on the Pre?
Jun 29 05:53:24 <Robi_> Configuring gdbm
Jun 29 05:53:25 <Robi_> Configuring libdb
Jun 29 05:53:25 <Robi_> Configuring perl
Jun 29 05:53:25 <Robi_> Configuring quilt
Jun 29 05:53:27 <Robi_> Configuring readline
Jun 29 05:53:39 <Robi_> rwhitby: how do you want me to find out
Jun 29 05:53:53 <rwhitby> ah, df before and after?
Jun 29 05:54:01 <Robi_> too late
Jun 29 05:54:05 <Snake> Ok what the hell. I can ping my pre, but I cant ssh into it now
Jun 29 05:54:08 <Snake> it was JUST WORKING
Jun 29 05:54:15 <Robi_> give it a minute
Jun 29 05:54:32 <Snake> ive givin it 4 now
Jun 29 05:55:13 <Robi_> # ipkg-opt info perl
Jun 29 05:55:21 <Robi_> ...
Jun 29 05:55:22 <Robi_> Size: 7147972
Jun 29 05:55:31 <Snake> SIIIGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh
Jun 29 05:55:37 <Snake> Guess this is tomorrows project now. Ugh.
Jun 29 05:55:53 <gkatsev> ok, im confused as to how to install commander, do i install org.webosinternals.services and org.webosinternals.commander? and do i just install them by emailing myself the link for the ipk which is on gitorious?
Jun 29 05:55:54 <rwhitby> Robi_: ouch, wonder if it will work with miniperl instead.
Jun 29 05:56:06 <rwhitby> gkatsev: ipkg-opt install <url>
Jun 29 05:56:18 <gkatsev> rwhitby: ah, ok, thanks
Jun 29 05:56:20 <Robi_> rwhitby: no, it's not in the ipkg dependency
Jun 29 05:56:28 <rwhitby> gkatsev: make sure you've clicked far enough that the URL has 'raw' in it.
Jun 29 05:56:37 <gkatsev> rwhitby: i have
Jun 29 05:56:42 <Robi_> all the above is from me just installing quilt
Jun 29 05:56:49 <rwhitby> yow
Jun 29 05:56:57 <Snake> and now it works again
Jun 29 05:57:00 <rwhitby> does it run ok?
Jun 29 05:57:01 * Snake kills someone
Jun 29 05:57:17 * button likes this.
Jun 29 05:57:24 <Robi_> # quilt
Jun 29 05:57:24 <Robi_> Usage: quilt [--trace[=verbose]] [--quiltrc=XX] command [-h] ... quilt --version
Jun 29 05:57:28 <Robi_> Commands are:
Jun 29 05:57:28 <Robi_> then usage
Jun 29 05:57:31 <Robi_> /opt/bin/quilt: line 38: column: command not found
Jun 29 05:57:33 <Robi_> /opt/bin/quilt: line 38: column: command not found
Jun 29 05:57:39 <Snake> annnd now its not working....... okay this is a little rediculus now
Jun 29 05:57:40 <newman314> what is quilt again?
Jun 29 05:58:23 <rwhitby> newman314: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quilt_(software)
Jun 29 05:58:48 <rwhitby> Robi_: I think column is in 'util-linux'
Jun 29 05:59:07 <newman314> ah
Jun 29 05:59:07 <Robi_> that's a broken dep tne
Jun 29 05:59:09 <Robi_> then
Jun 29 05:59:24 <rwhitby> Robi_: yep, looks like it.
Jun 29 05:59:27 <rwhitby> I'll add it.
Jun 29 05:59:49 <Robi_> wait let me verify
Jun 29 06:00:07 <Robi_> go ahead
Jun 29 06:00:44 <Robi_> so.. should I just add /usr/palm and have it watch everything
Jun 29 06:01:21 <gkatsev> sweet
Jun 29 06:01:56 <gkatsev> rwhitby: where does it install commander?
Jun 29 06:02:36 <rwhitby> Robi_: normal usage is to do quilt new for each separate mod, and just remember to quilt add each file before you edit it
Jun 29 06:03:52 <Robi_> sounds like a time for an alias
Jun 29 06:04:22 <rwhitby> then you can quilt push and pop the patches.
Jun 29 06:04:48 <rwhitby> I was also toying with stgit, which allows you to float and sink patches in the stack.  I think it pulls in python.
Jun 29 06:07:40 <Robi_> ok so quilt add file
Jun 29 06:07:49 <Robi_> no that sets patches
Jun 29 06:07:56 <Robi_> no patches in series
Jun 29 06:08:33 <Robi_> Commands are: add       files   import   previous  setup annotate  fold    mail     push      snapshot applied   fork    new      refresh   top delete    graph   next     rename    unapplied diff      grep    patches  revert    upgrade edit      header  pop      series
Jun 29 06:09:33 <Robi_> no man page of course
Jun 29 06:11:07 <Robi_> uh need to create a patch dir
Jun 29 06:13:33 <jdub> rwhitby: quilt is kinda weird for relative *nix newcomers... perhaps we should encorage the use of an (easy-to-use) dvcs? we can all keep our pres in version control ;-)
Jun 29 06:13:47 <Robi_> hm alias work will be hard with this process
Jun 29 06:13:55 <rwhitby> jdub: stgit add /
Jun 29 06:14:20 <rwhitby> Robi_: start with quilt new my-new-mod.patch
Jun 29 06:14:25 <rwhitby> then add files
Jun 29 06:14:32 <Robi_> ya got that
Jun 29 06:14:42 <Robi_> editing out my changes to see the diff
Jun 29 06:14:50 <Riz_> quick question about random wall paper
Jun 29 06:15:32 <Riz_> if any one can help, the script works but i'm having trouble scheduling it
Jun 29 06:16:51 <newman314> hmmm stgit
Jun 29 06:17:58 <Robi_> quilt refresh
Jun 29 06:17:58 <Robi_> diff: unrecognized option `--label'
Jun 29 06:18:23 <Robi_> BusyBox v1.11.2 () multi-call binary
Jun 29 06:18:29 <Robi_> Usage: diff [-hmk] [FILESYSTEM...]
Jun 29 06:18:49 <Robi_> so it wont work as diff is borked
Jun 29 06:18:52 <eno> ipkg-opt install diffutils
Jun 29 06:19:14 <Robi_> rwhitby: another dep for you
Jun 29 06:19:17 <rwhitby> newman314: I couldn't work out a good workflow for using stgit without having to git add /
Jun 29 06:19:40 <rwhitby> Robi_: yep.  FYI: eno does 99% of the optware work :-)
Jun 29 06:19:47 <newman314> hmm
Jun 29 06:19:54 <Robi_> eno: busybox diff still gets called btw
Jun 29 06:19:55 <rwhitby> he's working on a feed for the Pre emulator as we speak.
Jun 29 06:20:19 <Robi_> let me fix pathing
Jun 29 06:20:29 <eno> yeah, i was going to suggest that
Jun 29 06:20:51 <Robi_> that's something to fix on the wiki, /opt before else
Jun 29 06:21:48 <rwhitby> Robi_: we usually patch the optware apps directly so that you can put /opt at head or tail of path and all the optware apps still work
Jun 29 06:22:12 <Robi_> note to eno then
Jun 29 06:22:13 <rwhitby> needless to say quilt hasn't had a lot of testing, so it looks like there's a patch there for us to add.
Jun 29 06:22:35 <psykoz> so what does palm use as a scheduler on the phone, ie: not cron since it apparently isn't running?
Jun 29 06:22:39 <rwhitby> BTW, we're always looking for new Optware developers for stuff like this :-)
Jun 29 06:22:52 <Robi_> ok quilt diff fixed
Jun 29 06:23:02 <Robi_> sucks it prints the entire file
Jun 29 06:23:20 <rwhitby> what prints the entire file?
Jun 29 06:23:46 <Robi_> quilt diff
Jun 29 06:23:52 <rwhitby> shouldn't do.
Jun 29 06:24:20 <rwhitby> is this a new file or one you've modified?
Jun 29 06:24:33 <rwhitby> if modified, did you quilt add the file before modifying?
Jun 29 06:24:41 <Robi_> mod, yes
Jun 29 06:24:59 <Robi_> quilt diff lists the file as a diff with mainly - lines
Jun 29 06:25:02 <Robi_> '-'
Jun 29 06:25:18 <rwhitby> looks like something is broken.
Jun 29 06:25:32 <rwhitby> maybe the bad diff has corrupted quilt's records somehow
Jun 29 06:25:41 <Riz_> quick question can someone explain how to schedule scripts using crontab
Jun 29 06:25:45 <rwhitby> (it keeps a copy of the unmodified file in the .pc dir)
Jun 29 06:26:11 <Robi_> so i should try again now that i have diff working
Jun 29 06:26:16 <newman314> man cron
Jun 29 06:26:16 <rwhitby> Robi_: please
Jun 29 06:26:56 <Robi_> how do i delete this set
Jun 29 06:27:20 <Robi_> ok ez enuf
Jun 29 06:29:49 <JamesBaud> Is there a limit/max of Global Search Addons you cna add?
Jun 29 06:30:20 <JamesBaud> im adding 1, reddit.com, works fine, when i try to add 2 more, google images and imdb, doesnt work
Jun 29 06:30:48 <Robi_> ok that's better
Jun 29 06:31:47 <Robi_> noe i have the -,+ lines
Jun 29 06:32:09 <Robi_> i suppose its time for a reboot
Jun 29 06:32:32 <newman314> has anyone noticed that twitter search is available on global search but not when using the browser?
Jun 29 06:33:01 <Robi_> wtf it replicates the dir structure within the patch dir
Jun 29 06:33:04 <Robi_> sigh
Jun 29 06:33:08 <Robi_> ll
Jun 29 06:33:19 <Robi_> root@castle:/var/home/root/quilt-patches# ll
Jun 29 06:33:19 <Robi_> total 20
Jun 29 06:33:19 <Robi_> drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 Jun 28 23:27 .
Jun 29 06:33:19 <Robi_> drwxr-xr-x 6 root root 4096 Jun 28 23:11 ..
Jun 29 06:33:19 <Robi_> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Jun 28 23:28 .pc
Jun 29 06:33:21 <Robi_> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 28 23:30 patches
Jun 29 06:33:24 <Robi_> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Jun 28 23:27 usr
Jun 29 06:33:52 <Robi_> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 60523 Jun 28 23:27 usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone/app/controllers/dialpad-assistant.js
Jun 29 06:34:12 <Robi_> this tool is meant to be used in the dir the files you're editing are
Jun 29 06:34:25 <Robi_> which is not something i'm interested in doing
Jun 29 06:35:26 <newman314> robi: use pastie
Jun 29 06:35:41 <newman314> it's rude to post that many lines at once.
Jun 29 06:36:02 <Robi_> deal
Jun 29 06:36:02 <newman314> actually http://webos.pastebin.com/
Jun 29 06:36:53 <Robi_> pretend i typed it
Jun 29 06:37:39 <JamesBaud> lolz
Jun 29 06:38:32 <rwhitby> Robi_: I think you need to type quilt new at the highest point at which you're going to edit files
Jun 29 06:39:29 <Robi_> rwhitby: i sure did
Jun 29 06:40:08 <Robi_> there should be a .conf to configure what dir that is and it can stuff all bits in there
Jun 29 06:40:24 <rwhitby> there may be ... let me look
Jun 29 06:40:32 <Robi_> now every time i want to add new patches i have to cd to this /var/home/root/quilt-patches dir
Jun 29 06:41:33 <Robi_> # Example /etc/quilt.quiltrc
Jun 29 06:41:47 <Robi_> # The directory in which patches are found (defaults to "patches").
Jun 29 06:41:47 <Robi_> #QUILT_PATCHES=patches
Jun 29 06:42:00 <Robi_> # Prefix all patch names with the relative path to the patch?
Jun 29 06:42:00 <Robi_> QUILT_PATCHES_PREFIX=yes
Jun 29 06:42:44 <Robi_> # Options to pass to commands (QUILT_${COMMAND}_ARGS)
Jun 29 06:42:44 <Robi_> QUILT_PUSH_ARGS="--color=auto"
Jun 29 06:42:45 <rwhitby> intro PDF doco at http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/quilt.git/plain/doc/quilt.pdf
Jun 29 06:43:03 <Robi_> that should be removed.. --color
Jun 29 06:43:32 <Robi_> unless u make bash a dependency too
Jun 29 06:43:48 <Robi_> doesn't seem to be a prob tho
Jun 29 06:44:26 <rwhitby> Robi_: looks like there is a QUILT_PC variable too
Jun 29 06:44:43 <Robi_> PC?
Jun 29 06:44:49 <rwhitby> for the .pc dir
Jun 29 06:46:46 <Robi_> for name or path
Jun 29 06:47:02 <Robi_> doesn't matter really since there's other stuff u want to keep together
Jun 29 06:49:11 <Robi_> so quilt is part of git
Jun 29 06:52:29 <Robi_> quilt delete also doesn't clean up the patch file from the patches dir...
Jun 29 06:54:39 <oc80z> heh i am making an mirc addon to easy create global search engines
Jun 29 06:55:54 <rwhitby> Robi_: so is quilt going to be a help or a hindrance?
Jun 29 06:57:44 <Robi_> with discipline it's possible to gather a repository of 'safe' patches from the wiki, minimizing user error
Jun 29 06:58:49 <Robi_> but it's at the level of having devs maintain it
Jun 29 06:59:07 <Robi_> users are just gonna mess it up
Jun 29 07:03:13 <rwhitby> hmm. so it's at least a way of creating the initial patches
Jun 29 07:03:22 <rwhitby> but we need a simpler way for users to apply them
Jun 29 07:03:31 <Robi_> better than providing modified originals for download
Jun 29 07:03:52 <Robi_> but yes, we need another patch manager ala ipkg-opt to apply them
Jun 29 07:04:11 <rwhitby> but we still need a way to unapply all before OTA updates, ...
Jun 29 07:04:31 <rwhitby> (which is what quilt pop -a would do for us)
Jun 29 07:05:31 <Robi_> what about re-apply
Jun 29 07:05:36 <Robi_> push -a ?
Jun 29 07:05:39 <rwhitby> yep
Jun 29 07:05:47 <rwhitby> and hope the contexts work.
Jun 29 07:06:07 <Robi_> once they're created yes
Jun 29 07:06:17 <rwhitby> if not, they download the latest from the repo (which has hopefully been fixed) and try agian
Jun 29 07:06:29 <Robi_> but what if i download all patches then install quilt and try to push
Jun 29 07:06:51 <rwhitby> that should work
Jun 29 07:07:05 <Robi_> online repo would be best
Jun 29 07:07:38 <rwhitby> "here's one I prepared earlier ..."
Jun 29 07:07:39 <rwhitby> http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications/trees/master
Jun 29 07:08:11 <Robi_> quilt import ?
Jun 29 07:08:25 <rwhitby> git clone and then quilt import
Jun 29 07:09:16 <Robi_> need a way to pick individuals, and not necessarily grab them all
Jun 29 07:09:24 <rwhitby> yeah, that't the GUI app I think.
Jun 29 07:10:13 <rwhitby> dunno, it's all heavy-weight, but I can't think of anything simpler that will still work well enough.
Jun 29 07:10:50 <Robi_> is there a similar app
Jun 29 07:11:10 <rwhitby> quilt and stgit were the only ones I could think of
Jun 29 07:11:25 <rwhitby> stgit is an even higher barrier to entry
Jun 29 07:11:59 <rwhitby> (but can deal with individual patches better, including reordering)
Jun 29 07:12:17 <Robi_> then we move to full force quilting
Jun 29 07:12:59 <rwhitby> I think the main thing is having a method that works, with a common file format in an online repository with all the info required, and then simpler tools to perform that method can come later.
Jun 29 07:16:18 <Robi_> then you need to start with a vanilla phone and make one patch to get started
Jun 29 07:16:56 <rwhitby> Robi_: the three patches in the repo should apply cleanly on 1.0.3 (tested on doctor rootfs files)
Jun 29 07:17:41 <Robi_> mmh
Jun 29 07:17:54 <Robi_> ok let me try a clone
Jun 29 07:18:14 <rwhitby> I created those three with stgit
Jun 29 07:18:24 <rwhitby> but they should work fine with quilt rooted at /
Jun 29 07:20:05 <Robi_> uhh dropped conection
Jun 29 07:20:10 <Robi_> yay for screen
Jun 29 07:20:39 <Robi_> rwhitby: there is no clone
Jun 29 07:20:45 <oc80z> hey Robi_
Jun 29 07:20:50 <Robi_> yo oc80z
Jun 29 07:21:33 <oc80z> im adding global search addons
Jun 29 07:21:43 <oc80z> ...youtube, break.com...
Jun 29 07:22:34 <Robi_> rwhitby: so now i have to install git
Jun 29 07:22:35 <oc80z> think of any others?
Jun 29 07:22:44 <rwhitby> Robi_: yep
Jun 29 07:23:15 <rwhitby> or tarball from http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications/archive-tarball/master
Jun 29 07:23:28 <rwhitby> but a git clone would allow you to push new ones
Jun 29 07:23:57 <Robi_> damn more junk installed
Jun 29 07:23:58 <Robi_> rcs ??
Jun 29 07:24:03 <Robi_> sigh
Jun 29 07:24:10 <Robi_> why does git rely on rcs
Jun 29 07:26:07 <Robi_> Initialized empty Git repository in /var/home/root/quilt-patches/master/.git/
Jun 29 07:26:10 <Robi_> fatal: http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications/trees/master/info/refs not found: did you run git update-server-info on the server?
Jun 29 07:27:05 <rwhitby> Robi_: use git://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications.git
Jun 29 07:27:27 <rwhitby> no idea why git was use rcs.  that seems very weird.
Jun 29 07:27:36 <rwhitby> s/was/would/
Jun 29 07:28:44 <newman314> where do you see git using rcs?
Jun 29 07:29:08 <newman314> afaik it doesnt
Jun 29 07:29:21 <rwhitby> optware GIT_DEPENDS=zlib, openssl, libcurl, diffutils, rcs, expat
Jun 29 07:29:58 <rwhitby> ah, perhaps diffutils requires rcs?
Jun 29 07:30:08 <rwhitby> nope
Jun 29 07:31:02 <Robi_> root@castle:/var/home/root/quilt-patches# quilt import browser
Jun 29 07:31:02 <Robi_> Patch browser does not exist
Jun 29 07:31:29 <rwhitby> Robi_: does it only import individual files?
Jun 29 07:31:40 <Robi_> no idea
Jun 29 07:31:47 <Robi_> cant get it to work yet
Jun 29 07:32:01 <rwhitby> try quilt import browser/eanble-browser-downloads.patch
Jun 29 07:32:21 <Robi_> nope
Jun 29 07:32:54 <Robi_> nm
Jun 29 07:32:57 <rwhitby> s/eanble/enable/ ?
Jun 29 07:32:59 <Robi_> its the local ones
Jun 29 07:33:00 <Robi_> Initialized empty Git repository in /var/home/root/quilt-patches/modifications/.git/
Jun 29 07:33:16 <Robi_> so i have to import modifications/browser/...
Jun 29 07:33:52 <rwhitby> oh, I was thinking the modifications repo checkout would be orthogonal to the quilt-patches dir
Jun 29 07:33:58 <geist> git does not rely on rcs
Jun 29 07:34:07 <geist> it has absolutely nothing at all to do with rcs
Jun 29 07:34:16 <rwhitby> geist: yeah, that's what I thought.
Jun 29 07:34:33 <rwhitby> I wonder why we have a depends in optware ... we only put those in as needed.
Jun 29 07:34:49 <geist> ah, because git has a lot of importers and whatnot
Jun 29 07:34:52 <geist> svn, cvs, etc
Jun 29 07:35:05 <rwhitby> ah, that'd be it.
Jun 29 07:35:05 <geist> so it can end up with a dep on libs
Jun 29 07:35:11 <Robi_> rwhitby: it is, i just ran it from there
Jun 29 07:36:25 <Robi_>  quilt push prompt-for-ipk-installation
Jun 29 07:36:25 <Robi_> .patch
Jun 29 07:36:25 <Robi_> Applying patch prompt-for-ipk-installation.patch
Jun 29 07:36:25 <Robi_> /opt/share/quilt/push: line 127: patch: command not found
Jun 29 07:36:46 <rwhitby> oops, another missing dep
Jun 29 07:37:18 <Robi_> which pkg
Jun 29 07:37:22 <rwhitby> patch
Jun 29 07:37:34 <rwhitby> oh, patchutils
Jun 29 07:37:54 <rwhitby> no, just patch.
Jun 29 07:38:03 <Robi_> patch it bad
Jun 29 07:38:07 <Robi_> er is
Jun 29 07:38:27 <Robi_> |diff --git a/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.email/app/controllers/message-assistant.js b/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.email/app/controllers/message-assistant.js
Jun 29 07:38:34 <Robi_> a, b ? wtf
Jun 29 07:38:43 <Robi_> No file to patch.  Skipping patch.
Jun 29 07:38:57 <Robi_> |Patch by simplyflipflops.
Jun 29 07:39:04 <Robi_> f'd up by simplyflipflops.
Jun 29 07:39:12 <rwhitby> no, I did the patch
Jun 29 07:39:23 <rwhitby> I guess stgit does a patch -p 1
Jun 29 07:39:49 <Robi_> the path is wrong
Jun 29 07:40:20 <rwhitby> quilt import -p 1 ....
Jun 29 07:40:44 <rwhitby> hmm - it should default to 1.
Jun 29 07:41:12 <rwhitby> wish I had a Pre to test this on first ...
Jun 29 07:41:20 <Robi_> use mine
Jun 29 07:42:36 <rwhitby> did you give me a pointer to it before?
Jun 29 07:43:27 <rwhitby> oh, got it.
Jun 29 07:44:13 <rwhitby> Robi_: would need to be root though
Jun 29 07:45:14 <Robi_> i can give you 8 hrs
Jun 29 07:45:27 <Robi_> damn i forgot how to take a screen shot
Jun 29 07:46:06 <skraz-> Orange+Sym+P
Jun 29 07:46:40 <Robi_> i dont have that many thumbs
Jun 29 07:46:50 <skraz-> Lol
Jun 29 07:47:12 <skraz-> Thumb left hand, index+middle on the right hand. That's how I do it,
Jun 29 07:47:38 <Robi_> there's no indication that anything happened ;[
Jun 29 07:48:12 <skraz-> No, it doesn't tell you. It creates a new folder in your pictures called screencaptures and puts them there
Jun 29 07:48:43 <Robi_> saw that
Jun 29 07:49:12 <Robi_> with a nice bubble background
Jun 29 08:01:31 <edektor> anybody know that you could do log <appname> when ssh'd to the pre and it will give you a log of the application
Jun 29 08:02:52 * edektor really needs two monitors
Jun 29 08:06:52 <button> you just need one gigantic monitor to rule them all
Jun 29 08:10:17 <rwhitby> edektor: I didn't :-)
Jun 29 08:10:57 <edektor> I just typed it in hoping it would give me a log
Jun 29 08:43:02 <oc80z> hi
Jun 29 08:51:24 <oc80z> running out of app space
Jun 29 08:51:40 <oc80z> is this why my notifier wont install? just remved some apps for the time being, no luck
Jun 29 09:06:14 <rwhitby> Hmm: rdxd upload tarballs contain the device serial number, the device uid, the phone meid, ps -f output, a list of java threads, a list of wireless ssids that are in range, your current network connection details, and other syslog information.
Jun 29 09:06:48 <rwhitby> (a community member has given me remote root access to their Pre for the next 7 hours)
Jun 29 09:07:31 <oc80z> fun?
Jun 29 09:29:18 <oc80z> for $ i hope
Jun 29 09:29:34 <rwhitby> for a working quilt procedure
Jun 29 09:30:11 <oc80z> ah
Jun 29 09:30:29 <oc80z> im patching cam
Jun 29 09:31:40 <oc80z> quilt is heavy
Jun 29 09:40:54 <seige> hi
Jun 29 10:06:09 <rwhitby> oc80z: got a lighter tool which fits the job?
Jun 29 12:13:59 <zodttd> How do I go about getting info on keypresses from the Palm Pre keyboard? I'm trying to avoid using DirectFB, as I am already up and running using /dev/fb0
Jun 29 13:20:48 <Saiks> Hello i need some help... I can get root access but not SSH access... wget and echo part always gives me HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found Error
Jun 29 13:21:51 <Saiks> i am using virtual XP... i've been trying for 4 days now
Jun 29 13:22:54 <Rick__> Saiks - do it using the novacomm option.  This doesn't REQUIRE special stuff to get ssh access.   follow the "via usb" instructions.
Jun 29 13:23:20 <Rick__> are you cutting and pasting the wget?
Jun 29 13:24:22 <Rick__> zodttd - bpadalino would be the person to ask   but I think he's afk yet
Jun 29 13:24:45 <Rick__> distinal might also know, but againat this time of day, afk
Jun 29 13:24:48 <Rick__> destinal
Jun 29 13:24:50 <Rick__> sorry
Jun 29 13:25:09 <Saiks> I dont thk i can cut and paste in cmd
Jun 29 13:25:13 <Rick__> otoh,  what do you have running with dev/fb0?   ????
Jun 29 13:25:21 <Rick__> what terminal program are you using?
Jun 29 13:25:33 <Saiks> command prompt
Jun 29 13:25:34 <Rick__> Saiks  what terminal program?
Jun 29 13:25:45 <Rick__> so you typed "telnet bla bla ?
Jun 29 13:26:01 <Saiks> yea i can access the wifi
Jun 29 13:26:04 <Rick__> after the python talk.py?
Jun 29 13:26:11 <Rick__> ok.  you CAN cut and past.  like this
Jun 29 13:26:16 <Rick__> copy the stuff off the wiki page.
Jun 29 13:26:42 <Rick__> then in the upper right hand corner of the command prompt window, click the window icon.   go down to edit, pick paste.
Jun 29 13:27:07 <Saiks> yea i can do all that
Jun 29 13:27:18 <Rick__> By the way... better answer:  use putty to telnet instead of windows telnet.   then, paste is just "right click"
Jun 29 13:27:29 <Saiks> Oh ok... so if i copy and paste should that work?
Jun 29 13:27:36 <Rick__> Try it.
Jun 29 13:27:56 <Rick__> SHOULD work unless the in-tar-tubes are disfunctional this am.
Jun 29 13:28:49 <zodttd> Rick_: I got it working somewhat. I'm using /dev/tty0 and disabled ICANON. Thing is I can
Jun 29 13:29:05 <zodttd> *can't get the current status of a key
Jun 29 13:29:08 <Saiks> Because i usually type in the whole stuff.
Jun 29 13:29:29 <Rick__> right.   PM bpadalino and destinal.   when they get back they should be able to help.
Jun 29 13:29:38 <Saiks> I am new to all this i guess thats y i am having troubles
Jun 29 13:29:39 <Rick__> Saiks - there's some small chance you're mis-typing
Jun 29 13:29:55 <Rick__> not that YOU would make a typo,  but people _have_ done so
Jun 29 13:30:03 <rwhitby> more likely the wiki connection has dropped due to choosing a mode on the usb connection
Jun 29 13:30:12 <rwhitby> s/wiki/wifi/
Jun 29 13:30:46 <Rick__> good morning/evening Rod rwhitby
Jun 29 13:30:50 <Saiks> It alwasys say connecting to xx.xx.xx.xx and then gets me the error
Jun 29 13:31:17 <Rick__> in telnet  ping www.google.com
Jun 29 13:31:49 <Saiks> Sp use putty usb instead of windows prompt right?
Jun 29 13:32:44 <Rick__> use putty, but since yuo have wifi running no need to switch to usb.  You're gong to need putty once you have ssh anyway....
Jun 29 13:33:04 <bpadalino> zodttd: the key presses come in on /dev/input/keypad0 i believe .. you could open the file and read them ?
Jun 29 13:33:09 <bpadalino> there is a special mapping for the keys
Jun 29 13:33:17 <bpadalino> but it gives button up and button down notification
Jun 29 13:34:36 <zodttd> Awesome!
Jun 29 13:34:37 <zodttd> Thanks
Jun 29 13:34:49 <Rick__> zotttd,  what are you writing?
Jun 29 13:34:59 <zodttd> I have my psx emulator running
Jun 29 13:35:11 <Saiks> I'm about to try it now...
Jun 29 13:35:12 <zodttd> No sound, but its playing Ridge Racer 1 very nicely
Jun 29 13:35:22 <Rick__> in fb0, not direct fb?   Cool beans!
Jun 29 13:35:26 <zodttd> Faster than I got it running on the 3GS
Jun 29 13:35:30 <zodttd> Yup fb0 :)
Jun 29 13:35:47 <zodttd> I wrote this for OpenPandora (psx4pandora)
Jun 29 13:36:00 <zodttd> Seems you have the OMAP3 in common ;)
Jun 29 13:36:10 <Rick__> once yo have keys working PLEASE PRETTY PLEASE PLEASE put docs of what yo did on the wiki and link off of the reseach results page.
Jun 29 13:36:13 <rwhitby> zodttd: nice work
Jun 29 13:36:19 <zodttd> Thanks :)
Jun 29 13:36:20 <Rick__> pleae pretty please.
Jun 29 13:36:27 <zodttd> Rick_: Which one? Just to clarify
Jun 29 13:36:51 <Rick__> http://predev.wikidot.com/start
Jun 29 13:36:56 <zodttd> ok got it
Jun 29 13:37:00 <Rick__> it's where we're collecting our common knowledge
Jun 29 13:37:09 <zodttd> Yup :)
Jun 29 13:37:16 <Rick__> pm me an email address and I'll send you a wiki invite so you can edit.
Jun 29 13:37:52 <zodttd> zodttd@zodttd.com  (no worries about it being public / spam isnt an issue) :)
Jun 29 13:38:20 * Optimoe flips on the spambot
Jun 29 13:38:25 <Rick__> sent
Jun 29 13:39:48 <Rick__> now....  to  if destinal can figure out how to link in a browser plugin to mojo, we can put stuff like that into a _real_ app.
Jun 29 13:40:03 <Rick__> instead of having to enable shell access.
Jun 29 13:40:10 <zodttd> Heh Optimoe ;)
Jun 29 13:41:07 <zodttd> Also of interest is I am able to execute off the stack, and clear the icache on the Palm Pre (just as I do on the Pandora / OMAP3 EVM). I do this for the psx dynarec.
Jun 29 13:41:31 <Saiks> In telnet, i tried to ping www.google.com, but it returned with an error "could not open connection to the host on port www.google.com: connection failed
Jun 29 13:45:21 <Saiks> It worked now...
Jun 29 13:49:58 <Rick__> is your pre plugged in?
Jun 29 13:50:22 <Rick__> Saiiks,  I think your connection to the tubes was plugged.
Jun 29 13:50:43 <Rick__> try the wget now.
Jun 29 13:50:53 <zodttd> Has the keypad0 struct been reversed already?
Jun 29 13:51:39 <zodttd> I can see it definitely gives a 0=release 1=pressed and a key identifier, timer for repeat, etc. Though if its already public knowledge copy and pasting would be nice :P
Jun 29 13:53:02 <zodttd> the structure being 16 bytes, the first byte being the key
Jun 29 13:53:16 <Saiks> how can i use wifi with putty insteading of telnet
Jun 29 13:54:03 <Rick__> bring up putty.   put the ip address of the pre in the host box.  Pick TELNET from the radio buttons below the host box instead of SSH.   port will change.  Press CONNECT
Jun 29 13:54:07 * rwhitby starts uploading http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/i686g25/cross/unstable/
Jun 29 13:54:34 <Rick__> is that the x86 optware ipkg-opt for the emulator?
Jun 29 13:54:51 <Saiks> thank you
Jun 29 13:54:59 <rwhitby> we believe it should be compatible with reports on what the emulator uses.
Jun 29 13:55:06 <Rick__> good to know.
Jun 29 13:56:53 <zodttd> I think I have keypad0 working now...Awesome :)
Jun 29 13:57:47 <Optimo> zod did you sign a contract for your pre?
Jun 29 13:57:49 <Rick__> zodttd:  the only thing I know of mentioning keypad0 is  http://predev.wikidot.com/vala-terminal   which lists it as "todo."  altho he has info on keypad1  which is the non-keyboard keys.  You might WANT the volume and etc...
Jun 29 13:57:59 <bpadalino|work> zodttd, i don't think it's been reversed yet
Jun 29 13:58:07 <zodttd> Its pretty simple
Jun 29 13:58:08 <Rick__> Awesome indeed zodttd
Jun 29 13:58:20 <zodttd> The first byte is the keycode / scancode for the button
Jun 29 13:58:25 <Rick__> please begging please,  really really begging please,   document it.
Jun 29 13:58:36 <bpadalino|work> be sure to note the keymapping, btw
Jun 29 13:58:39 <zodttd> And the 13th byte is the release/pressed
Jun 29 13:58:46 <Optimo> dead simple
Jun 29 13:58:51 <zodttd> Yeah, I need to test it real quick to double check
Jun 29 13:58:55 <zodttd> heh Optimo ;P
Jun 29 13:58:56 <Rick__> cool
Jun 29 13:58:59 <Optimo> how many keys?
Jun 29 13:59:11 <Optimo> you can do a fancy oldschool bitmask
Jun 29 13:59:24 <bpadalino|work> zodttd, if you press the orange key then a number, does it modify any of the key codes - or is that up to your driver ?
Jun 29 13:59:25 <zodttd> Its event based
Jun 29 13:59:40 <Optimo> ugh
Jun 29 13:59:40 <zodttd> bpadalino: checking
Jun 29 14:00:19 <bpadalino|work> zodttd, also - i think that is only for the keypad .. the other keypads might be other gpio (volume up/down, mute/ringer, etc)
Jun 29 14:00:21 <bpadalino|work> but i am not sure
Jun 29 14:00:26 <zodttd> It doesnt modify the value
Jun 29 14:00:30 <Rick__> does hold-down-orange-and-press-key give a different byte string than just the key by itself...  or is it  "keydown orange",  "keydown other", "Keyup orange"  Keyup other?
Jun 29 14:00:36 <zodttd> Checking volume if it reports
Jun 29 14:00:56 <Rick__> bpadalino|work:   http://predev.wikidot.com/vala-terminal  said that the other buttons are keypad1
Jun 29 14:01:01 <zodttd> no luck on volume, wont report
Jun 29 14:01:10 <bpadalino|work> zodttd, i like your ideas ... do you have a news letter? if not, i'd like you see our wiki - and feel free to sign up
Jun 29 14:01:14 <Optimo> zod you bored with iphone =p
Jun 29 14:01:14 <zodttd> though theres 5 or 6 keypad devices
Jun 29 14:01:56 <bpadalino|work> that's a lot of devices
Jun 29 14:02:04 <zodttd> bpadalino: I just do emulators and ports for random gadgets, usually posting about it on my site zodttd.com  ...will gladly fill in the missing links in the wiki
Jun 29 14:02:14 <Optimo> I shall return to rape the fruits of your labor
Jun 29 14:02:30 <zodttd> Yeah not sure what they do beyond keypad0, though keypad1 was mentioned in the wiki
Jun 29 14:02:37 <Rick__>     * /dev/input/event0 = ? (aka /dev/input/keypad2)
Jun 29 14:02:39 <Rick__>     * /dev/input/event1 = volume and silver keys (aka /dev/input/keypad1)
Jun 29 14:02:41 <Rick__>     * /dev/input/event2 = keyboard (aka /dev/input/keypad0)
Jun 29 14:02:41 <zodttd> lol Optimo. Do you have a Pre atm?
Jun 29 14:02:42 <Rick__>     * /dev/input/event3 = ? (aka /dev/input/proximity0)
Jun 29 14:02:44 <Rick__>     * /dev/input/event4 = something that has slow continuous output (aka /dev/input/light0)
Jun 29 14:02:46 <Rick__>     * /dev/input/event5 = something that has fast continuous output (aka /dev/input/accelerometer0)
Jun 29 14:02:51 <Optimo> I cant afford one
Jun 29 14:02:52 <zodttd> Ahhh yes
Jun 29 14:02:58 <Optimo> to bad therer is no Palm Touch
Jun 29 14:03:00 <zodttd> doh Optimo
Jun 29 14:03:15 <Optimo> I need another phone like a hole in my head
Jun 29 14:03:34 <Rick__> could happen.  Palm made organizers for > a decade
Jun 29 14:03:35 <Optimo> hopefully you can make some money on this jalopy
Jun 29 14:04:01 <Optimo> kidding, I think its a nice device (clearly apple influence)
Jun 29 14:04:37 <Optimo> heres a general Q: all these other touchy phones that come out from LG, samsung et al. are those linux/java or what?
Jun 29 14:04:46 <rwhitby> 1GB of new optware packages for x86/glibc2.5 uploaded.
Jun 29 14:05:06 <Rick__> :-)
Jun 29 14:05:24 <Rick__> that's a lot of optware packages.
Jun 29 14:05:45 <rwhitby> each feed is about a gig.
Jun 29 14:07:29 <Rick__> gosh
Jun 29 14:07:55 <Rick__> otoh,  disk space is essentially free.   someone ELSE is paying for optware's bandwidth...   I hope.
Jun 29 14:08:34 <Optimo> does anyone know about that Q^ ?
Jun 29 14:08:45 <Rick__> very VERY hard to believe that disk space has fallen to around 10 cents a gig.
Jun 29 14:09:03 <Rick__> those phones are generally running proprietary operating systems like symbian
Jun 29 14:09:06 <rwhitby> ipkg.nslu2-linux.org serves up 44GB of open source packages and 16GB of open source firmware images
Jun 29 14:09:37 <Optimo> so if its not android, suspect its closed source....
Jun 29 14:10:04 <rwhitby> hosting and bandwidth for nslu2-linux.org is kindly donated by OSUOSL.  hardware is purchased from community donations.
Jun 29 14:10:23 <Rick__> lg uses a proprietary lg developed os that is flash based.
Jun 29 14:10:42 <Rick__> Optimo,   duh.
Jun 29 14:11:02 <Optimo> I'm sorta new to linux
Jun 29 14:36:22 <zodttd> I have keypad0 working...I will update the wiki today with information
Jun 29 14:38:38 <no1leftypitcher> hey guys, how would I set a script to run every 10 minutes or so?
Jun 29 14:40:31 <no1leftypitcher> anyone out there?
Jun 29 14:41:52 <bpadalino|work> cron ?
Jun 29 14:47:06 <no1leftypitcher> im not sure how to use it
Jun 29 14:47:58 <en0x> */10 * * * * /path/to/script >/dev/null 2>&1
Jun 29 14:49:07 <no1leftypitcher> thanks
Jun 29 14:50:43 <no1leftypitcher> and if I want to change it or delete it from running later?
Jun 29 15:21:27 <Rick__> go google cron.
Jun 29 15:21:36 <Rick__> it's one of those things you need to know to use linux
Jun 29 15:22:30 <Rick__> that's not a snipping obnoxious thing...  it's a real suggestion...
Jun 29 15:22:46 * bdumm agrees
Jun 29 15:22:53 <blau-mikedg> hey hey we are the monkeys
Jun 29 15:23:01 * bdumm chuckles
Jun 29 15:23:31 <bdumm> does app store errors log to syslog?
Jun 29 15:27:01 <zule> cron rocks... i once email bombed this cute girl in high school with a cron job left up over the weekend set to email her every minutes
Jun 29 15:27:21 <zule> took down the poor sun 401? server...
Jun 29 15:30:15 <mikewx> only thing better if yous aid she was impressed and is now your wife...but i suspect that didn't happen
Jun 29 15:31:37 <Snake_> So fellas, what happens if you add more search engines than fits on the page?
Jun 29 15:31:40 <Snake_> does it scroll?
Jun 29 15:38:16 <Snake_> http://predev.wikidot.com/add-delete-pages-in-the-launcher
Jun 29 15:38:19 <Snake_> Wow thats useful
Jun 29 15:38:32 <Snake_> Now I can actually organize my launcher. Yay!
Jun 29 15:38:42 <Robi_> yeah ;]
Jun 29 15:48:46 <djk1> anyone know where outbound mail gets queued? I have a message stuck and it doesn't show in the outbox anymore but is still trying to be sent
Jun 29 15:52:23 <bpadalino|work> traffic jam on the dbus highway ?
Jun 29 15:53:35 <Lurking_Grue> So is the leaked sdk just a palm emulator? is the leaked sdk a no-no topic?  I was just curious what the impressions of it were.
Jun 29 15:54:01 <cphelps> Lurking_Grue: it's more of a topic appropriate for another channel
Jun 29 15:54:13 <sugardave> hmmm....can you not install apps from the app store if you are in dev mode?
Jun 29 15:54:20 <cphelps> internals would imply, at least in my mind, the internal working of webos
Jun 29 15:54:30 <cphelps> sugardave: that's a good question
Jun 29 15:54:57 <cphelps> sugardave: I will check for you
Jun 29 16:10:32 * bdumm checking too
Jun 29 16:10:36 <Robi_> it works
Jun 29 16:10:45 <Robi_> i've been in dev mode since i rooted it
Jun 29 16:10:51 <cphelps> yeah, no issues here.
Jun 29 16:11:08 <Robi_> my html rendering came back after a reboot.. !#%!
Jun 29 16:11:18 <cphelps> Although I am pissed that I didn't send in the RocknRollHax fix on thursday when I found it.
Jun 29 16:11:19 <bdumm> i was in dev mode and all installs/updates from app store failed
Jun 29 16:11:31 <bdumm> from the updates section though things updated just fine :)
Jun 29 16:11:37 <bdumm> er updates app
Jun 29 16:12:06 <Robi_> rwhitby: around?
Jun 29 16:12:24 <cphelps> Robi_: Unlikely at this time of day. What do you need?
Jun 29 16:12:25 <Robi_> or he he in a timezone that sleeps at this time
Jun 29 16:12:45 <bpadalino|work> GMT+9h30m (australia) timezone
Jun 29 16:12:56 <Robi_> cphelps: we were working on something last night ..
Jun 29 16:13:21 <Robi_> got quilt going as a poc
Jun 29 16:14:26 <Robi_> need to start on a gui to manage the pathes
Jun 29 16:14:30 <bdumm> sugardave, with dev mode off, i am still getting installed failed for _anything_ via the app store
Jun 29 16:16:09 <Snake_> Rooted palm pre, its whats for breakfast
Jun 29 16:16:10 <Snake_> http://i41.tinypic.com/141uwx2.jpg
Jun 29 16:16:15 <Snake_> :)
Jun 29 16:16:31 <Snake_> pardon the smuggies
Jun 29 16:16:42 <Robi_> bdumm: restart lately?
Jun 29 16:17:08 <bdumm> yea just did to turn off dev mode
Jun 29 16:33:06 <Lurking_Grue> Snake: Palm pre is great for obsessive compulsives.  I find myself constantly cleaning mine. :)
Jun 29 16:34:13 <Technobabble> that's a good thing
Jun 29 16:34:22 <Technobabble> i thought anything that encouraged OCD behavior just made it worse
Jun 29 16:34:31 <psykoz> the pre is supposed to make you more productive, not less, you should get rid of your phone
Jun 29 16:35:38 <Lurking_Grue> Psy: For me technology is just gives me more efficient ways to slack off.
Jun 29 16:36:48 <no1leftypitcher> how would I set the GPS Tracking script to kick off every 20 minutes?
Jun 29 16:37:04 <Technobabble> cron
Jun 29 16:37:21 <no1leftypitcher> i know but i don't know exactly how to use it
Jun 29 16:37:32 <no1leftypitcher> (kinda new to this whole linux thing)
Jun 29 16:37:45 <Technobabble> wikipedia cron
Jun 29 16:37:55 <Technobabble> do you know where to find the crontab?
Jun 29 16:38:10 <psykoz> crontab -e
Jun 29 16:38:25 <Technobabble> is cron already on the phone?
Jun 29 16:38:51 <no1leftypitcher> yea its on there...
Jun 29 16:39:08 <Technobabble> nice, let me see if i can get it to do something
Jun 29 16:39:23 <no1leftypitcher> does it have to be in the /vars/spool/cron/crontabs?
Jun 29 16:39:30 <no1leftypitcher> (the script)
Jun 29 16:41:02 <Technobabble> crontab: chdir(/var/spool/cron/crontabs): No such file or directory
Jun 29 16:41:05 <Technobabble> is that what you got?
Jun 29 16:41:13 <no1leftypitcher> yea
Jun 29 16:41:28 <Technobabble> lets have a look at the wiki
Jun 29 16:42:08 <Technobabble> http://predev.wikidot.com/random-wallpaper-switching
Jun 29 16:42:14 <Technobabble> that appears to talk about setting up cron
Jun 29 16:42:46 <no1leftypitcher> cool...checking it now.
Jun 29 16:42:53 <Snake_> so has anyone found a way to light up the LED when we get a new message??
Jun 29 16:43:09 <Technobabble> snake, they were talking about it
Jun 29 16:43:15 <Technobabble> so i know the issue came up
Jun 29 16:47:33 <cphelps> Snake_: most likely it's going to be a change to the subsystem that handles dashboards/notifications
Jun 29 16:47:44 <cphelps> Snake_: it will happen eventually, but so far nothing
Jun 29 16:47:46 <Snake_> yeah that makes sense
Jun 29 16:47:47 <Snake_> :P
Jun 29 16:48:17 <Snake_> Ill do some reading into it when I get back from work and see what I can figure out
Jun 29 16:48:32 <cphelps> Snake_: I would be all over that, but I'm not really a hardware guy. When someone posts a bit more info about how the front leds are turned on/off I will look into it
Jun 29 16:48:52 <Snake_> Oh is that the issue right now?
Jun 29 16:48:56 <Snake_> we dont know how to call the LEDs?
Jun 29 16:49:07 <cphelps> Not the front panel ones that I am aware of
Jun 29 16:49:13 <Snake_> hmm
Jun 29 16:49:26 <Snake_> has anyone found the file where gestures are stored and interpreted??
Jun 29 16:49:54 <Snake_> I bet thered be a call in there for it, from there we could probably just plug that into the messaging app (or the alert subsystem)
Jun 29 16:50:48 <cphelps> Snake_: no, the gestures are all handled in java code that would have to be decompiled
Jun 29 16:51:02 <destinal> java? not native binary?
Jun 29 16:51:31 <cphelps> most of the systems are java
Jun 29 16:51:41 <Snake_> ah
Jun 29 16:51:43 <Snake_> :-/
Jun 29 16:51:51 <Snake_> then yeah thats an issue
Jun 29 16:52:18 <cphelps> Not an issue per se. It can be decompiled and searched
Jun 29 16:52:46 <Snake_> Oh I know, its just not as simple as cracking open the JS file in plain text and finding the call
Jun 29 16:52:49 <Snake_> :-P
Jun 29 16:52:59 <cphelps> exactly
Jun 29 16:53:11 <cphelps> gestures are sent in as particular mojo event
Jun 29 16:53:14 <cphelps> events
Jun 29 16:53:23 <cphelps> like tap or swipe left/right
Jun 29 16:53:29 <Snake_> ohh
Jun 29 16:53:30 <Snake_> gotcha
Jun 29 16:58:13 <asedeno_work_afk> Anyone had any luck installing the spaz test builds?
Jun 29 17:09:05 <cphelps> Snake_: I may be wrong about the java service. I don't see any jars with gesture mentioned anywhere
Jun 29 17:11:44 <Technobabble> sup phelps
Jun 29 17:12:11 <cphelps> Technobabble: just attempting to do my job, while being distracted by something actually interesting and exciting.
Jun 29 17:12:19 <Technobabble> heh, i know how that is
Jun 29 17:12:29 <Technobabble> what's the word on the terminal you guys were working on
Jun 29 17:12:50 <cphelps> Technobabble: it does everything I want it to do, so I'm pretty much done with it.
Jun 29 17:13:03 <Technobabble> is it up on the wiki?
Jun 29 17:13:05 <cphelps> Technobabble: I don't think a full terminal on the device is really that safe
Jun 29 17:13:23 <cphelps> Technobabble: the service ipk and commander ipk are on gitorious
Jun 29 17:13:34 <cphelps> Other than that, I don't know what else is boing done
Jun 29 17:14:01 <Technobabble> do you have a link to the gitorious"?
Jun 29 17:14:23 <cphelps> Technobabble: unless we actually go so far as to require a login context (which I don't think is all that supported in java), going further in a secure manner might be difficult
Jun 29 17:14:40 <Snake_> http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/trees/master/org.webosinternals.commander
Jun 29 17:14:44 <Snake_> http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/trees/master/org.webosinternals.services
Jun 29 17:14:50 <cphelps> Snake_: that'
Jun 29 17:14:54 <cphelps> that's the stuff
Jun 29 17:15:12 <Technobabble> is using git like using svn?
Jun 29 17:15:21 <cphelps> Technobabble: pretty much
Jun 29 17:15:34 <cphelps> Technobabble: but you can also just DL the ipks
Jun 29 17:15:42 <Snake_> so could I run like, irssi with commander?
Jun 29 17:15:53 <destinal> cphelps: I think a GUI terminal browser plugin would be safe, and awesome
Jun 29 17:15:55 <Technobabble> so i'm assuming i would allow writes on the root file sys
Jun 29 17:16:17 <Technobabble> lemme rtfm
Jun 29 17:16:19 <Technobabble> brb
Jun 29 17:16:19 <cphelps> destinal: you mean like the ones already posted for PHP and Python?
Jun 29 17:16:25 <destinal> no
Jun 29 17:16:56 <destinal> think like classic but instead of a palmos emulator a full graphical terminal
Jun 29 17:17:37 <destinal> not written in mojo or a java service but a full-fledged local binary
Jun 29 17:17:46 <cphelps> destinal: and how is that a browser plugin?
Jun 29 17:17:57 <destinal> that's what classic is, apparently
Jun 29 17:18:19 <cphelps> destinal: well if they have done it, then it's possible on a rooted pre at least
Jun 29 17:18:29 <djk1> webos 1.0.4 released
Jun 29 17:18:37 <Snake_> anything broke?
Jun 29 17:18:38 <Snake_> :)
Jun 29 17:19:11 <Snake_> djk1: whats your source?
Jun 29 17:19:16 <cphelps> destinal: browser as a plugin in a sense that something other than luna is controller. I get you
Jun 29 17:19:18 <destinal> right, I want to reverse engineer classic and check out how they do it.  framebuffer stuff like doom and fbterm that we have now is cool but it involves killing luna which I don't think is a good way to go in the long term
Jun 29 17:19:22 <djk1> Snake_: don't know but hopefully it fixes my email
Jun 29 17:19:35 <Snake_> palm doesnt have a change log...
Jun 29 17:19:47 <Technobabble> snake, does it close any of the stuff we use
Jun 29 17:19:49 <destinal> others have suggested a virtual kvm between luna and fb but I still think native integration is better
Jun 29 17:20:10 <cphelps> destinal: as long as there is a login context :-)
Jun 29 17:20:29 <cphelps> destinal: because right now, I am not leaving my device laying around with a root shell on it, I can tell you that
Jun 29 17:20:39 <djk1> Snake_: not yet but they have post information before
Jun 29 17:20:54 <destinal> cphelps: sure, it would be best to have it make a login call first of all
Jun 29 17:21:07 <Technobabble> i don't think anyone who walked over to a phone with a root shell on it would know what to do anyway
Jun 29 17:21:20 <destinal> or you could just lock your pre :)
Jun 29 17:21:21 <Snake_> hehe
Jun 29 17:22:09 <cphelps> Technobabble: I'm a software engineer. Everyone I work with knows what a root shell is
Jun 29 17:22:11 <Technobabble> well, no one i know anyawy
Jun 29 17:22:51 <Snake_> I showed my friend my modded search
Jun 29 17:22:53 <Snake_> he goes "so"
Jun 29 17:22:58 <Snake_> then I showed him the directions to do it
Jun 29 17:23:00 <Snake_> WOOOSSHH
Jun 29 17:23:00 <Snake_> :)
Jun 29 17:23:12 <destinal> cphelps: I agree re services btw, I really don't think having a root shell bound to a service callable by any mojo app is a smart thing to have around
Jun 29 17:23:13 <djk1> Snake_: What's my source for what? I just check the update app and it came up with the 1.0.4
Jun 29 17:23:43 <en0x> yap
Jun 29 17:23:45 <Snake_> djk1: oh I thought you found it on a blog or something then :) (Although your proper citation would be "The Update app"
Jun 29 17:23:45 <en0x> 1.0.4
Jun 29 17:23:46 <en0x> 12MB
Jun 29 17:23:48 <Snake_> :-P
Jun 29 17:24:18 <en0x> just wonder what they changed
Jun 29 17:24:32 <cphelps> destinal: It depends. It's actually pretty much required in order to deal with the PmConnection stuff that has to be disabled for certain nefarious activities to work
Jun 29 17:25:08 <destinal> cphelps: sorry, I don't follow
Jun 29 17:25:17 <ventralnet> I walked through the hello world tutorial on the wiki, how do i delete that?  I notice holding orange key and clicking hte icon doesn't bring up a delete option like it does for other apps
Jun 29 17:25:34 <djk1> Snake_: it completed successfully and the rooting is still working
Jun 29 17:27:36 <Cleanser> Any idea where the PPP sprintPCS username is located for the #777 dialin username? I don't see it in /etc/ppp/options or /etc/ppp/options-cdma
Jun 29 17:29:54 <SirWill> We have confirmation that 1.0.4 breaks nothing?
Jun 29 17:30:41 <djk1> confirmed no but so far I have had not run into a problem and I can still ssh to it
Jun 29 17:30:54 <SirWill> Well that is a good sign
Jun 29 17:32:13 <djk1> and so far my stuck outbox seems cleaned up wonder if they fixed the imap auth to send
Jun 29 17:33:18 <destinal> the doctor has not yet been updated, as an FYI
Jun 29 17:33:33 <destinal> it usually takes a little while for that
Jun 29 17:33:35 <bpadalino|work> oh, 1.0.4 is released already ?
Jun 29 17:33:39 <bpadalino|work> wow, lots of releases
Jun 29 17:34:36 <djk1> that is a good thing they are working on stuff
Jun 29 17:34:56 <djk1> but my stuck oubox is still stuck :-(
Jun 29 17:34:59 <bpadalino|work> absolutely
Jun 29 17:35:03 <bpadalino|work> :(
Jun 29 17:35:41 <djk1> I guess I'll just have run the doctor again and re-run
Jun 29 17:36:03 <Kaerey> palm forum post: Fixes:
Jun 29 17:36:03 <Kaerey> Unauthorized applications could be installed without having physical access to the device
Jun 29 17:36:11 <Kaerey> from a non-palm person
Jun 29 17:37:18 <destinal> so it fixes the email ipkg link hole, presumably?
Jun 29 17:37:26 <Kaerey> maybe.
Jun 29 17:37:29 <djk1> no new apps added
Jun 29 17:37:32 <Snake_> eep
Jun 29 17:37:40 <bpadalino|work> has someone figured out the updated packages ?
Jun 29 17:37:48 <Technobabble> does the phone automatically update?
Jun 29 17:37:52 <Snake_> Technobabble: aye
Jun 29 17:39:22 <cphelps> anyone remember where new updates get downloaded?
Jun 29 17:39:52 <bpadalino|work> i think /media/internal/downloads
Jun 29 17:40:02 <bpadalino|work> but they get cleaned up as they're installed i think
Jun 29 17:40:09 <Snake_> http://forums.palm.com/palm/board/message?board.id=webossoftware&thread.id=2813
Jun 29 17:40:16 <Snake_> 1.0.4 info is coming soon
Jun 29 17:42:04 <SirWill> destinal - could mean that there was a whole that we didn't even know about that they fixed.   Someone still needs to test tie ipkg email method
Jun 29 17:42:24 <Kaerey> I'm installing now, I will test in a minute.
Jun 29 17:43:10 <cphelps> downloading from the browser still works
Jun 29 17:43:29 <Kaerey> downloading and installing apps from the browser?
Jun 29 17:43:41 <psykoz> I think he just means downloading stuff from the browser?
Jun 29 17:43:42 <bpadalino|work> just the downloading mod you made, right ?
Jun 29 17:45:18 <cphelps> bpadalino|work: correct
Jun 29 17:45:21 <Robi_> anyone know how to retweet in spaz?
Jun 29 17:45:31 <Technobabble> do we have a "using git" tut for the pre?
Jun 29 17:45:42 <cphelps> Technobabble: no
Jun 29 17:46:02 <Robi_> oh, can someone do a grep -i spaz on /var/log/messages and give me a sample
Jun 29 17:47:03 <SirWill> Reports are saying homebrew will not install via email links anymore
Jun 29 17:47:52 <cphelps> SirWill: we assumed that would be the case as soon as the vulnerability was discovered
Jun 29 17:48:15 <SirWill> Yeah, figured that was what the security fix meant.  They pay attention.
Jun 29 17:49:16 <bclancy> glad if they fixed the email vulnerability
Jun 29 17:49:48 <destinal> ok, so that leaves us back to needing to root to install stuff at least.  can anyone confirm devmode and novacom / novaproxy methods work?
Jun 29 17:50:23 <cphelps> destinal: I didn't have any trouble with my ssh at least
Jun 29 17:50:34 <cphelps> destinal: but basically, that's never going to be broken
Jun 29 17:50:37 <destinal> yeah but that's existing ssh not a brand new box
Jun 29 17:50:48 <cphelps> destinal: that's how their tools communicate too
Jun 29 17:51:05 <destinal> not true
Jun 29 17:51:38 <destinal> they don't communicate with ssh -- their tools communicate with novacom but they could have changed the mechanism, I agree it's not likely
Jun 29 17:51:40 <cphelps> destinal: you're saying they don't use novacomd to talk from the SDK to the phone?
Jun 29 17:51:53 <cphelps> destinal: I didn't mean ssh. I meant novacom
Jun 29 17:52:26 <destinal> ah, right, and you're right, it's probably not changed as the sdk would have to be updated, but we don't know yet
Jun 29 17:52:34 <zule> unless they start to like decaf coffee we have nothing to worry about
Jun 29 17:52:55 <bpadalino|work> decaf600d ?
Jun 29 17:52:55 * bdumm agrees w/zule
Jun 29 17:53:05 <bpadalino|work> decaf900d ?
Jun 29 17:53:13 <zule> hehe
Jun 29 17:53:34 <cphelps> ok folks, I will get a diff of the mail app soon
Jun 29 17:55:00 <en0x> oh a lot of info on 1.0.4
Jun 29 17:55:02 <en0x> "This release addresses several security issues with Palm webOS software."
Jun 29 17:55:05 <en0x> hehehe
Jun 29 17:55:36 <en0x> # Configuration: Sprint 1.6
Jun 29 17:55:39 <bpadalino|work> Townsend Ladd Harris - is that the same tlharris that comes on here /
Jun 29 17:55:46 <en0x> in every update they will release new configuration?
Jun 29 17:55:59 <destinal> yup, that's tharris
Jun 29 17:56:35 <cphelps> Not sure he's been really instrumental in anything, but maybe :-)
Jun 29 17:56:51 <SirWill> tharris thanked
Jun 29 17:57:13 <destinal> he mentioned he was reporting a few different issues to them, not sure on the specifics
Jun 29 18:01:00 <bpadalino|work> very neat
Jun 29 18:01:19 <djwhitey> did 1.0.4 break installing ipk's via email link?
Jun 29 18:01:54 <cphelps> djwhitey: yes. I am working on finding HOW they did it so that we can decide if it should be re-enabled
Jun 29 18:01:59 <SirWill> Maybe even if homebrew apps need to be rooted to be installed, the apps could have a software update option in them, so they can download an update if you already have it installed.
Jun 29 18:03:24 <cphelps> SirWill: it may be difficult.
Jun 29 18:03:26 <SirWill> cphelps: what is the point in re-enabling.. for the masses it still means requiring root access to install the patch that would re-enable the feature.
Jun 29 18:03:47 <Kaerey> looks like they broke luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {}
Jun 29 18:04:00 <bpadalino|work> oh, did they ?
Jun 29 18:04:03 <SirWill> Kaerey really?
Jun 29 18:04:05 <Kaerey> either that or I can't type
Jun 29 18:04:19 <Kaerey> LOL option b
Jun 29 18:04:26 <bpadalino|work> ha
Jun 29 18:04:26 <SirWill> Well, it's installing now.
Jun 29 18:04:34 <Kaerey> plam:// doesn't seem to work
Jun 29 18:04:45 <SirWill> no, I don't think that would work
Jun 29 18:04:50 <asedeno_work> I'd believe plam doesn't work. :)
Jun 29 18:05:10 <asedeno_work> novaproxy still works fine. I'm not surprised.
Jun 29 18:05:11 <Kaerey> LOL sometimes I wonder why people let me use computers
Jun 29 18:05:16 <cphelps> diff doesn't show any code differences in the mail app.
Jun 29 18:05:54 <cphelps> which means they modified the services to filter on ipk, which probably means other issues
Jun 29 18:05:55 <asedeno_work> note: window focus != eye focus
Jun 29 18:06:15 <bpadalino|work> asedeno_work: note taken
Jun 29 18:06:57 <Robi_> can someone do a grep -i spaz on /var/log/messages* and give me a sample (i can't get to mine atm)
Jun 29 18:07:28 <cphelps> Robi_: how many people here do you think are sitting around twittering?
Jun 29 18:07:51 <SirWill> my glowing blue palm logo is not flashing, it's white again
Jun 29 18:08:13 <Robi_> if you've installed it, you'll have msgs i believe
Jun 29 18:09:12 <Robi_> cphelps: it's a useful time killer when waiting in line.. catching up ..
Jun 29 18:09:56 <cphelps> Robi_: how many people here do you think are waiting in lines? Hackers live in basements and use the net for everything :-)
Jun 29 18:10:07 <SirWill> after install, it went straight to airplane mode
Jun 29 18:10:32 <SirWill> wait no, I rant the commander app first and tested it, then I saw the airplane.
Jun 29 18:10:46 <Robi_> cphelps: so sorry, i happen to have a life compared to that. :P
Jun 29 18:11:22 <cphelps> Robi_: there are people out there who can help you in your quest. The people in this channel are most likely not among them
Jun 29 18:11:50 <Robi_> not to worry i've found a willing participant. sad it couoldn't be you.
Jun 29 18:11:57 <SirWill> I must admit that I twittered that 1.0.4 is out.
Jun 29 18:12:52 <cphelps> SirWill: how old are you?
Jun 29 18:16:55 <Robi_> now if only we could talk palm into diff-updating to leave our changes alone..
Jun 29 18:17:19 <cphelps> Robi_: as of now, they still haven't broken anything have they?
Jun 29 18:17:35 <cphelps> Robi_: downloading still works, ssh, etc
Jun 29 18:17:36 <destinal> bpadalino|work: just had the chance to use your novacom replacement, worked like a charm, thanks. :)
Jun 29 18:17:42 <Robi_> i mean app changes
Jun 29 18:18:00 <mikeDOTd> 1.0.4?  w00t
Jun 29 18:18:01 <bpadalino|work> destinal, oh yeah ?
Jun 29 18:18:07 <bpadalino|work> destinal, a charm, huh? no issues at all ?
Jun 29 18:18:24 <cphelps> Robi_: that's not really how ipk works
Jun 29 18:18:34 <Robi_> i'm well aware
Jun 29 18:18:39 <destinal> yeah, apt-get install libusb-dev  then just cd'd into the directory, make,  ./novacom  and terminal is perfect
Jun 29 18:18:48 <destinal> running ubuntu here
Jun 29 18:19:15 <bpadalino|work> destinal, did the terminal feel fluid and usable ?
Jun 29 18:19:16 <Robi_> qopefully git/quilt will make that easier
Jun 29 18:19:24 <Robi_> s/q/h
Jun 29 18:19:30 <Robi_> how'd that get in there
Jun 29 18:20:07 <destinal> bpadalino|work: yeah, it feels like telnet / ssh
Jun 29 18:20:34 <bpadalino|work> destinal, great! glad it worked for you ..
Jun 29 18:20:56 <bpadalino|work> mrvc really deserves a lot of credit
Jun 29 18:20:57 <destinal> jumped in to make tar backups of 103 and 104 and diff them
Jun 29 18:21:31 <SirWill> cphelps 41
Jun 29 18:21:31 <bpadalino|work> awesome ... i am really glad it worked out for you ... and was easy to work with
Jun 29 18:22:15 <Robi_> better than evdo
Jun 29 18:22:19 <SirWill> Just saw this in the forms    Enter Dev mode. Install the SDK. Use "palm_install.bat -d usb my_big_long_name.ipk"     So that is perhaps a way for homebrew for non rooted to go forward.
Jun 29 18:22:42 <bpadalino|work> novacom is the shit
Jun 29 18:22:52 <Robi_> SirWill: too many requiements with the sdk
Jun 29 18:23:09 <bpadalino|work> i can tell you exactly what it does without even knowing what is in palm_install.bat
Jun 29 18:23:12 <Robi_> big one is, can you still install over email
Jun 29 18:23:43 <bpadalino|work> sends the file over usb to some directory to get installed .. then executes the ipkg install command on the ipk you just uploaded ..
Jun 29 18:23:59 <bpadalino|work> then tells luna to rescan or do whatever
Jun 29 18:25:05 <destinal> yeah, people need to remember that "rooting" is nothing but installing stuff to make it more easy to come in with more conventional tools, it's already rooted and novacom does everything you really need if you can turn on dev mode and plug in usb
Jun 29 18:25:28 <bpadalino|work> indeed - it's a very powerful tool
Jun 29 18:25:47 <bpadalino|work> we'd probably be able to make a novaftp out of what we have written so far ..
Jun 29 18:26:41 <Technobabble> is git installed on the pre?
Jun 29 18:26:56 <Robi_> ipkg-opt install git
Jun 29 18:27:00 <Technobabble> ty
Jun 29 18:41:34 <Technobabble> so i've used subversion before, this is the first time i'm using git
Jun 29 18:41:38 <destinal> bpadalino|work: you might consider a --help option.  If I get a chance, I'll submit a patch. :)
Jun 29 18:41:47 <Technobabble> i know that in subversion you go to the directory you want to download the source to
Jun 29 18:41:49 <bpadalino|work> destinal, yeah - there is a usage in there ..
Jun 29 18:41:55 <bpadalino|work> but you need to type something wrong for it to come up
Jun 29 18:41:58 <Technobabble> do we do that with git, or does it automatically put it where it needs to be
Jun 29 18:42:31 <Technobabble> i'm doing the http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/trees/master/org.webosinternals.services btw
Jun 29 18:43:21 <bpadalino|work> brb, meeting
Jun 29 18:46:30 <shaya> hmm, why did tharris get to take credit for the discovery of the security hole (at least via palm's kb article)
Jun 29 18:47:25 <Technobabble> shaya, who found it?
Jun 29 18:47:34 <mdklein_> ok, extracted 1.0.4 updates, looking over them now
Jun 29 18:47:35 <destinal> shaya: I think he was credited for other vulns not described
Jun 29 18:47:56 <shaya> ok
Jun 29 18:48:51 <destinal> I hope palm describes them a bit better, it's good to know what was wrong when these kinds of fixes come out
Jun 29 18:49:03 <mdklein_> doesn't look like /etc/profile was changed to break anything for us
Jun 29 18:51:59 <Lurking_Grue> Is there a changelist up?
Jun 29 18:52:14 <mdklein_> I'm not a fan that motionapp service updates are an OS update either. I could care less about the classic environment and it's 5megs of the 12mb update
Jun 29 18:52:48 <SirWill> Yeah, that is interesting that their app update goes out with the os update, what about other apps???
Jun 29 18:53:09 <mikewx> maybe that's a side effect of native code, palm won't allow it any other way?
Jun 29 18:55:13 <mdklein_> base-files.ipk,com.motionapps.service.classic.ipk,com.palm.app.updates.ipk,palmbuildinfo.ipk,telephonyinterfacelayer1cdma.ipk,browser-adapter.ipk,com.palm.app.findapps.ipk,libltdl.ipk,palmcustomizationinfo.ipk,upstart-initscripts.ipk,com.motionapps.rom.classic.ipk,com.palm.app.firstuse.ipk,luna-sysmgr.ipk,sweatshop-sprint-castle.ipk
Jun 29 18:55:16 <mdklein_> that's the full update
Jun 29 18:55:28 <bpadalino|work> the firstuse changed? intersting
Jun 29 18:55:38 <A2NY> good day
Jun 29 18:55:48 <SirWill> is the findapps.ipk the app catalog?
Jun 29 18:56:13 <sam1am> Does anyone know where to find Palm's official word on sideloading apps?  They at first said they would allow it (in January), then more recently they said no, but everyone in the forums keeps saying they've promised the ability to sideload
Jun 29 19:03:46 <gkatsev>  so, how does 1.0.4 affect exactly what we've been doing here?
Jun 29 19:04:07 <shaya> gkatsev: doesn't affect rooted pres
Jun 29 19:04:41 <shaya> someone should write an installer app
Jun 29 19:04:52 <gkatsev> ok, cool
Jun 29 19:05:01 <shaya> I'd ave done that already if I had a pre myself :)
Jun 29 19:05:15 <gkatsev> lol
Jun 29 19:05:17 <shaya> unfortunately, sprint not letting me put it on my plan means it cost me $500 a year more to get :)
Jun 29 19:05:29 <shaya> so no pre for me until at least I get a job
Jun 29 19:06:14 <Kaerey> my god, I took the link down to my notification app, and people got pissy!!!
Jun 29 19:06:53 <Kaerey> And JackieRipper Nice job on the messaging sound edit. I'll include a field to change messagetone in the next version of the app.
Jun 29 19:07:55 <summatusmentis> shaya: what sprint plan are you on currently?
Jun 29 19:08:12 <shaya> 2500 minute family plan
Jun 29 19:08:20 <shaya> 3 lines for $100 for 2 + $10 for 3rd
Jun 29 19:08:34 <shaya> + unlimited data on all 3 lines for free, unlimited texting on mine
Jun 29 19:08:37 <shaya> which I dont use
Jun 29 19:09:08 <shaya> I have a plot of how to get the pre w/o gettign an everythig plan, but waiting to figure out how to spring it :)
Jun 29 19:09:09 <summatusmentis> and they won't let you put the Pre on it?
Jun 29 19:09:12 <shaya> no
Jun 29 19:09:18 <sugardave> is 1.0.4 breaking ssh connections for anyone else?
Jun 29 19:09:19 <shaya> need an everything data or simply everything plan they claim
Jun 29 19:09:31 <summatusmentis> oh, you're on an older plan, seemingly
Jun 29 19:09:32 <shaya> though their might be a way to use the $30 pro pack addon to get it
Jun 29 19:09:39 <shaya> summatusmentis: yes
Jun 29 19:09:41 <summatusmentis> I'm on SERO, so I know what you're saying
Jun 29 19:09:55 <gkatsev> sprint is only unlocking the pre on everything plus, everything data and simply everything plans (all other plans are SOL)
Jun 29 19:10:01 <shaya> yea, never got sero as for my needs it wouldn't have save me much
Jun 29 19:10:19 <shaya> $33 a line for splitting 2500 minutes vs. $30 for 500 minute :)
Jun 29 19:10:41 <shaya> gkatsev: sort of
Jun 29 19:10:44 <shaya> not 100% true
Jun 29 19:10:48 <shaya> but it is what they claim
Jun 29 19:10:58 <muin> my plan is still better than yours
Jun 29 19:11:03 <summatusmentis> gkatsev: they're not "unlocking" it, but those are the only plans they say it will be allowed on
Jun 29 19:11:18 <shaya> sprint.com would let me buy an instinct w/o changing my plan on a line that had the power pack
Jun 29 19:11:22 <shaya> I mean pro pack
Jun 29 19:11:23 <destinal> I wish I would have caught SERO while it was there
Jun 29 19:11:34 <shaya> I verified that last week
Jun 29 19:11:41 <shaya> but sprint.com doesn't have the pre yet
Jun 29 19:11:41 <muin> why do i suspect we live in the same area?
Jun 29 19:11:56 <shaya> destinal: sero is still available if you ahve a friend w/ it
Jun 29 19:12:00 <shaya> he can clone his line
Jun 29 19:12:06 <shaya> and then TOL (transfer of liability) it to you
Jun 29 19:12:12 <shaya> not the easiest thing, but possible
Jun 29 19:12:19 <summatusmentis> destinal: it's nice, but it bugs me that they're not letting Pre on it
Jun 29 19:12:38 <shaya> summatusmentis: $50 sero + pro would kick the everything data plans but
Jun 29 19:12:44 <shaya> $80 for 1250 minutes vs 450
Jun 29 19:12:50 <shaya> for $70
Jun 29 19:13:14 <shaya> but it really depends on your needs
Jun 29 19:13:14 <sugardave> what do you mean about "unlocking" the Pre for the everything data plan?
Jun 29 19:13:22 <zule> if you need more minutes, get in on the sip trunking exploit with sprint@home
Jun 29 19:13:23 <zule> :)
Jun 29 19:13:36 <shaya> zule: or google voice
Jun 29 19:13:53 <summatusmentis> shaya: do you have a link to the Pro Pack?
Jun 29 19:14:06 <thadood> anyone update to 1.0.4 yet?
Jun 29 19:14:10 <gkatsev> summatusmentis: right, thats what i meant
Jun 29 19:14:11 <sugardave> me
Jun 29 19:14:14 <shaya> https://nextelonline.nextel.com/en/stores/popups/power_vision_pro_pack_popup.shtml
Jun 29 19:14:24 <thadood> Break anything, sugardave?
Jun 29 19:14:26 <shaya> it's basically $30 addon that is the "everything plan" without minutes
Jun 29 19:14:31 <shaya> navigation, data, texting
Jun 29 19:14:48 <shaya> I made an extra add a line last week for a day
Jun 29 19:14:50 <shaya> $10
Jun 29 19:14:51 <sugardave> thadood, not sure yet...I have this other issue that was happening before I updated...damn app catalog says I don't have any memory
Jun 29 19:14:56 <shaya> + $30 pro pack addon
Jun 29 19:15:02 <sugardave> it certainly didn't fix THAT
Jun 29 19:15:03 <shaya> and sprint.com would let me upgrade the phone to an instinct
Jun 29 19:15:03 <thadood> oh. lame. reboot didn't take care of it?
Jun 29 19:15:07 <sugardave> nope
Jun 29 19:15:11 <shaya> now, that doesnt mean it actually work
Jun 29 19:15:13 <thadood> odd indeed =\
Jun 29 19:15:14 <sugardave> multi-reboots, battery pulls, etc.
Jun 29 19:15:32 <shaya> but its a good avenue to explore
Jun 29 19:15:34 <summatusmentis> shaya: well, if I'm going to spend the extra $30/mo for the Pro Pack, I might as well just get the SERP plan
Jun 29 19:15:41 <shaya> summatusmentis: yes
Jun 29 19:15:54 <shaya> if you have the $30 pack
Jun 29 19:16:00 <summatusmentis> I do
Jun 29 19:16:00 <shaya> on the other hand if you have $50 sero
Jun 29 19:16:06 <shaya> and need the minutes, it can be a decent upgrade
Jun 29 19:16:24 <summatusmentis> who needs minutes anymore
Jun 29 19:16:28 <shaya> as $80 vs. $70 for a boat load more minutes
Jun 29 19:16:35 <shaya> some people do
Jun 29 19:16:36 <summatusmentis> right
Jun 29 19:16:38 <sugardave> okay, about to take my 1st stab at using the webosdoctor...I've backed up /media...anything else to worry about?
Jun 29 19:16:46 <shaya> there's a $5 240 minute package thats possible to get
Jun 29 19:16:51 <shaya> I'm considering that as a test
Jun 29 19:16:54 <summatusmentis> I've never even come close to my 500 minutes :)
Jun 29 19:17:08 <muin> what is the 'code' for the propack?
Jun 29 19:17:28 <bdumm> sugardave, dunno, ask nebula when about, good luck :)
Jun 29 19:17:47 <shaya> PDSEBIZ30 - $30 Pro Pack
Jun 29 19:18:27 <bdumm> can we talk phone plans elsewhere?
Jun 29 19:18:32 <shaya> :)
Jun 29 19:18:36 <shaya> ok
Jun 29 19:18:41 <shaya> no more phone talk
Jun 29 19:18:49 <bdumm> thx, more dev talk :)
Jun 29 19:19:13 <summatusmentis> bdumm: oh, err.... yeah, stay on topic you guys!
Jun 29 19:19:16 <summatusmentis> :-p
Jun 29 19:19:28 <bdumm> i updated to 1.0.4, my app catalog is still br0k3n... :\
Jun 29 19:19:31 <muin> ill talk about my 3500 min for 4 line,  txt and data etc for $107 elsewhere
Jun 29 19:20:47 <bdumm> where does app catalog send errors? anyone know? I just get "install failed" lol
Jun 29 19:21:26 <A2NY> do you have to re-root for 1.0.4 ?
Jun 29 19:21:38 <muin> try PDSEBIZ25
Jun 29 19:21:42 * sugardave wonders if you forcefully remove a shipping app and then run the updater, if it will reinstall it.
Jun 29 19:22:00 <sugardave> A2NY: nope
Jun 29 19:23:08 <mrjcarter> sugardave: apps like sprinttv?
Jun 29 19:23:09 <A2NY> TY
Jun 29 19:23:14 <zule> bdumm, you check dmesg?
Jun 29 19:23:23 <en0x> shit
Jun 29 19:23:30 <en0x> i cannot update PRL
Jun 29 19:23:43 <en0x> it says that my phone is in airplane mode
Jun 29 19:23:51 <en0x> and it fails but the phone is not in airplane mode
Jun 29 19:23:52 <en0x> wtf
Jun 29 19:24:02 <zule> airplane mode = cell radio power off... of course it can't update in that mode
Jun 29 19:24:05 <bdumm> zule, umm atm, my Pre is picking up my other wireless box and getting a local 192. ip that i can't get to from here :)
Jun 29 19:24:07 <zule> the real question is why
Jun 29 19:24:12 * bdumm is umm locked out easily atm...
Jun 29 19:24:23 <A2NY> can we update PRL via code? or still *2 ?
Jun 29 19:24:31 <shaya> muin: that 25 is a different pacakge
Jun 29 19:24:36 <en0x> A2NY: I open dialer app and go to preferences
Jun 29 19:24:38 <shaya> it might work, it might not, I dont know
Jun 29 19:24:39 <Kaerey> a2ny: it's in the phone preferences
Jun 29 19:24:44 <shaya> I know the $30 one does
Jun 29 19:24:57 <en0x> can anyone on 1.0.4 check if can update PRL?
Jun 29 19:26:19 <sugardave> en0x, if nobody does in an hour or so I will be able to
Jun 29 19:26:28 <A2NY> installing 1.0.4 now
Jun 29 19:26:34 <mrjcarter> en0x, where is the prl setting?
Jun 29 19:26:39 <mrjcarter> i'll test it for ya
Jun 29 19:26:51 <en0x> mrjcarter: dialer app and preferences
Jun 29 19:27:05 <mrjcarter> got it
Jun 29 19:27:33 <sugardave> I was having problems updating the other setting over the weekend, but didn't try PRL
Jun 29 19:27:54 <mrjcarter> en0x, I'm assuming it worked
Jun 29 19:28:01 <mrjcarter> didn't give an error or anything
Jun 29 19:28:25 <en0x> hmm
Jun 29 19:28:32 <en0x> i will try reboot
Jun 29 19:30:02 <shaya> hmm
Jun 29 19:30:32 <shaya> wondering if its possible to leveage luna://com.palm.update to install apps
Jun 29 19:32:41 <shaya> or /usr/bin/PmUpdater
Jun 29 19:32:56 <A2NY> PRL update works
Jun 29 19:32:57 <gkatsev> installing 1.0.4 "takes about 10 minutes"? wow...
Jun 29 19:33:15 <shaya> gkatsev: its only 12mb or so!
Jun 29 19:33:22 <A2NY> but it seems to 'restart' the phone as it goes into airplane mode OFF and then ON
Jun 29 19:33:28 <gkatsev> exactly
Jun 29 19:33:31 <Kaerey> If you were on 1x maybe
Jun 29 19:33:50 <gkatsev> nope, im not 1.0.3, but thats the warning it gave me
Jun 29 19:34:04 <Kaerey> no 1x data service
Jun 29 19:34:12 <A2NY> less than 10min from install to full boot up
Jun 29 19:34:15 <gkatsev> ah, no, on wifi atm, or was
Jun 29 19:34:25 <gkatsev> and fairly good reception here
Jun 29 19:34:30 <Kaerey> then it will be a like a minute or twoo
Jun 29 19:34:41 <gkatsev> yeah, i think its booting back up now
Jun 29 19:37:24 <Destinal> http://webos.pastebin.com/m428ac204
Jun 29 19:37:40 <gkatsev> cool, it works
Jun 29 19:37:41 <Destinal> this is a diff on a running pre  from 1.0.3 to 1.0.4
Jun 29 19:38:30 <destinal> there's a little noise in there due to it being a running system (a diff of both doctors will be better once one is reelased)
Jun 29 19:38:46 <destinal> but I've tried to clean it up more or less
Jun 29 19:39:10 <Keegs> have a newb q... my pre doesn't seem to have the executable for the 'patch' command (not in /usr/bin or /bin or anywhere else for that matter). any idea how i can remedy that?
Jun 29 19:39:39 <gkatsev> Keegs: ipkg-opt install patch
Jun 29 19:40:25 <Keegs> thx
Jun 29 19:41:59 <Kaerey> .. would the new PalmCACert.pem be able to be used to sign ipks?
Jun 29 19:42:28 <mikewx> probably to verify the cert on ipkgs, i doubt they gave out the private key
Jun 29 19:43:32 <destinal> Kaerey: it's only a certificate  (including a public key) -- you would need the private key to sign
Jun 29 19:43:43 <cphelps> yes, which doesn't much matter for rooted pre's that we're using ipkg-opt to install
Jun 29 19:47:31 <tharris_> afternoon
Jun 29 19:47:33 <Kaerey> howdy
Jun 29 19:47:57 <tharris-> Just wanted to clear air, that I did not report the email hack I found something else =p
Jun 29 19:48:10 <cphelps> tharris-: nice
Jun 29 19:48:30 <tharris-> i dont want to be the guy that shot homebrew =p
Jun 29 19:48:47 <Kaerey> LOL Even if you did who cares, you're just trying to make the pre the best possible device.
Jun 29 19:48:55 <cphelps> tharris-: we wanted that shut down
Jun 29 19:48:56 <Kaerey> aren't we all trying to dot aht
Jun 29 19:49:02 <zule> do we get details on what you found?
Jun 29 19:49:40 <zule> or was it nda?
Jun 29 19:49:46 <tharris-> yeah i have a writeup i just need to get more permission.....waiting on permission from head of palm security.  Also for people to patch =p
Jun 29 19:49:55 <zule> heh
Jun 29 19:50:07 <zule> who was it, george cramer?
Jun 29 19:50:13 <zule> not sure of the spelling
Jun 29 19:50:28 <zule> hehe
Jun 29 19:50:29 <tharris-> it was a remote issue
Jun 29 19:50:34 <zule> i talked to him a few times
Jun 29 19:50:40 <tharris-> i havent test new patch yet either
Jun 29 19:50:53 <tharris-> i want to see if new stuff i found was also fixed
Jun 29 19:51:14 <muin>   I Would like to comment that the bug i found had nothing to do with the email loop hole. If Palm wants to give out details it will be up to them, but again closing the email loop hole was not from me. Submitted by tharris on Mon, 06/29/2009 - 15:32.
Jun 29 19:51:36 <tharris-> ?
Jun 29 19:55:03 <nebula> booya
Jun 29 19:55:09 <tharris-> hi
Jun 29 19:55:10 <nebula> knew palm would block the email apps
Jun 29 19:55:22 <tharris-> im not shocked
Jun 29 19:55:25 <nebula> security!
Jun 29 19:55:41 <destinal> so looks like mainly an update to libltdl liblunaservice-java LunaSysMgr and some things in app-catalog-service.js and applicationmanager.js .  there's a couple of files that were copied to .save but oddly, not actually replaced
Jun 29 19:55:46 <nebula> im actually glad... too many newbs with viruses :)
Jun 29 19:55:54 <jblebrun> Not closing that hole ASAP would have been irresponsible.
Jun 29 19:56:09 <nebula> jblebrun: agreed
Jun 29 19:56:12 <tharris-> well they had to update LunaSysMgr thats where my security issue was =p
Jun 29 19:56:32 <nebula> now if they only update a2dp to higher bitpools my life will be complete
Jun 29 19:56:48 <jblebrun> haha
Jun 29 19:58:00 * nebula waited 2-1/2 hours in a doctors office waiting room today
Jun 29 19:58:07 <nebula> ...and had to call out of work
Jun 29 19:58:10 <Kaerey> Post from Brian Hernacki in the comments on the PreCentral Article
Jun 29 19:58:16 <Lurking_Grue> Thar: What was the security hole?
Jun 29 19:58:32 <Kaerey> Obviously you've all already seen this but I wanted to let everyone here know that we have released a patch today that fixes the vulnerability in question here.
Jun 29 19:58:33 <Kaerey> I also wanted to take this chance to point people to http://www.palm.com/us/company/security . We have contact information there for reporting security-related issues and appreciate it when people reach out to us. We try to stay on top of the forums and sites, but proactive notification helps make webOS a better and safer platform. Thanks to xorg, simplyflipsflops, and spotter for their assistance -- we always appreciate the contribut
Jun 29 19:58:33 <Kaerey> Brian Hernacki
Jun 29 19:58:34 <Kaerey> Chief Security Architect, Palm Inc.
Jun 29 19:58:35 <funkatron> oi
Jun 29 19:58:36 <Kaerey> brian.hernacki@palm.com
Jun 29 19:59:16 <tharris-> He was my contact
Jun 29 19:59:17 <tharris-> FYI
Jun 29 19:59:22 <tharris-> very nice guy
Jun 29 19:59:46 <sugardave> damn, almost forgot my profile details...whew
Jun 29 19:59:52 <tharris-> took me some time to get a response.
Jun 29 20:00:33 <destinal> did you notice the security page now?  this seems to have made an impact for providing a security contact, request for responsible disclosure, etc
Jun 29 20:00:47 <tharris-> yeah he said he was working on it
Jun 29 20:00:48 <funkatron> I'm glad to hear that
Jun 29 20:01:13 <Technobabble> can anyone direct me on how to use this gitorious account?
Jun 29 20:02:01 <nebula> tharris-: contact?
Jun 29 20:03:21 <tharris-> im telling you, one of the nicest folks i ever had to deal with in regards to security.
Jun 29 20:03:28 <tharris-> nebula?
Jun 29 20:04:17 <mrjcarter> tharris: any free stuff from Palm at your door yet?
Jun 29 20:04:23 <destinal> hehe
Jun 29 20:04:36 <tharris-> lol
Jun 29 20:05:02 <cphelps> tharris-: seriously. You should get no less than a cookie.
Jun 29 20:05:06 <cphelps> Pepperidge Farms of course
Jun 29 20:05:12 <Technobabble> mmm
Jun 29 20:05:20 <mrjcarter> haha
Jun 29 20:05:46 <destinal> tharris-: remember you thought it would be friday?  well it looks like in /etc/issue all the snapshot dates are 7 days apart
Jun 29 20:06:04 <destinal> so it makes sense releases were typically that at first
Jun 29 20:06:31 <tharris-> gota ya
Jun 29 20:06:45 <tharris-> i got nothing, for me i just asked for recognition
Jun 29 20:07:11 <nebula> tharris-: good find :)
Jun 29 20:07:16 <tharris-> i was kinda hoping they would publish WHAT was found, cause it sounds bigger than it was (to me)
Jun 29 20:07:21 <Technobabble> i'm with phelps, i should hve at least asked for cookies
Jun 29 20:07:30 <Kaerey> Well I know Chuq went to work on Saturday. After it that shall not be named got you know what'd
Jun 29 20:08:01 <tharris-> i did blindly email him
Jun 29 20:08:39 <zule> well, I agree they don't need to post about it yet, but maybe after everyone has had a week or two
Jun 29 20:09:05 <zule> enough time to get protected before unleashing the damage
Jun 29 20:09:06 <zule> hehe
Jun 29 20:10:05 <nebula> s/1.0.4/tharrispatch
Jun 29 20:10:36 <tharris-> well xorg, and simply and shaya get in there too
Jun 29 20:10:43 <zule> anyone else notice the lifecalls is way off? it must be including connections to the data service
Jun 29 20:11:43 <tharris-> they found the email bug
Jun 29 20:11:49 <nebula> man... i was geekin about webOS to a medical secretary today...
Jun 29 20:11:58 <shaya> :)
Jun 29 20:11:58 <nebula> she asked me to fix her phone
Jun 29 20:12:10 <mrjcarter> nebula, she had a pre?
Jun 29 20:12:20 <shaya> tharris-: I still think someone should write an install app service
Jun 29 20:12:36 <shaya> it should be easy enough, especially with pregame showing us how to write java services
Jun 29 20:12:47 <nebula> mrjcarter: nah, it was a blackberry
Jun 29 20:12:56 <shaya> pass a url to the service and call ipkg on the url
Jun 29 20:13:06 <nebula> i told her how awesome webos is though ;)
Jun 29 20:13:08 <shaya> perhaps with some remounting b4 and after
Jun 29 20:13:16 <tharris-> yeah you could do that
Jun 29 20:13:17 <nebula> she called me a geek
Jun 29 20:13:18 <nebula> haha
Jun 29 20:13:36 <Sargun> nebula, what was wrong with her phone
Jun 29 20:13:43 <Sargun> medical secretary?
Jun 29 20:13:55 <summatusmentis> Sargun: it was a blackberry >_>
Jun 29 20:14:02 <Sargun> hahha
Jun 29 20:14:33 <nebula> Sargun: she wanted to know how to get video on it, which it didnt have by default. i explained she'd need to do some hacking :/
Jun 29 20:14:40 <Sargun> haha
Jun 29 20:15:00 <nebula> requires some other model firmware and a custom app load via java
Jun 29 20:15:03 <Technobabble> speaking of video, can you guys get videos to play on your pres?
Jun 29 20:15:08 <nebula> needless to say i mentioned the "hack" word
Jun 29 20:15:11 <Sargun> Technobabble, yeah... pretty easy.
Jun 29 20:15:17 <tharris-> anything good added to pre, havent been able to install patch
Jun 29 20:15:18 <Technobabble> what codecs do you guys use?
Jun 29 20:15:36 <Kaerey> tharris: nothing added on the front end.
Jun 29 20:15:54 <zule> divx/xvid here...
Jun 29 20:15:59 * tharris- cant wait to test for new security in this version .....
Jun 29 20:16:10 <nebula> is there a wiki page on loading codecs?
Jun 29 20:16:14 <Technobabble> i did a divx...
Jun 29 20:16:32 <nebula> i'm trying to load some audio codecs, could use a wiki doc
Jun 29 20:16:48 <Technobabble> H.264/MPEG-4 AVC won't play for me
Jun 29 20:17:11 <Technobabble> and that's exactly what the video that was in the phone was encoded with
Jun 29 20:17:13 <sugardave> hmm, what to do if talk.py completes as you'd expect, but telnet is refused by the Pre?
Jun 29 20:17:25 * sugardave just finished resetting his phone.
Jun 29 20:17:32 <cphelps> sugardave: that doesn't make a lot of sense
Jun 29 20:18:00 <nebula> Sargun: looking at that ad2p hacking we did, methinks it's in there you can up the default volume (ie no need to load loud ringers)
Jun 29 20:18:18 <tharris-> I am waiting Bryan's repsonse to whether i can release the bug FYI =p he offered me cookies though
Jun 29 20:18:33 <Kaerey> .... tracking cookies you hacker.
Jun 29 20:18:48 <nebula> tharris-: ask for some milk too
Jun 29 20:19:08 <Kaerey> Ask for one of teh new orange sleeves for the Pre.
Jun 29 20:19:27 <mrjcarter> haha
Jun 29 20:19:35 <nebula> oh and tell them summatusmentis needs a pre
Jun 29 20:19:39 <tharris-> lol
Jun 29 20:19:42 <nebula> (op joke)
Jun 29 20:20:00 <tharris-> well i have more bugs, just need to see what the new version is like =p
Jun 29 20:20:10 <tharris-> not like the one i found alreayd
Jun 29 20:20:41 <summatusmentis> wait, we're getting me a pre? :-P
Jun 29 20:20:43 <nebula> they're gonna hire you as QA
Jun 29 20:20:50 <Kaerey> LOL I asked my wife if she wanted an orange sleeve instead of the black "because I heard we could exchange it at the sprint store" so I took her sleeve one day to work with me and brought her home the orange one. She got kid of pissed when she realized I just turned it inside out.
Jun 29 20:20:50 <nebula> summatusmentis: nooooot yettttt
Jun 29 20:20:59 <summatusmentis> oh :)
Jun 29 20:21:10 <tharris-> i will say though that I am very much a Huge dan ofthe webkit-clipboard file =p
Jun 29 20:21:13 <mrjcarter> Kaerey: HAHA
Jun 29 20:21:26 <tharris-> fan*
Jun 29 20:22:02 <nebula> hrm, methinks i'm gonna give vlc media player another go
Jun 29 20:22:49 <nebula> too bad it takes 4 hours to compile
Jun 29 20:25:02 <Sargun> Kaerey, the sleeve doesn't work when you turn it inside out
Jun 29 20:25:56 <tharris-> I have to wait to release the data, so that people can patch =p per Palm
Jun 29 20:26:39 <Robi_> Kaerey: amusing.
Jun 29 20:28:51 <Kaerey> OH it totally works!
Jun 29 20:29:06 <Kaerey> You just have to remember to set rootfs_open -orange
Jun 29 20:30:04 <Kaerey> @PalmPreHelp: "DO NOT UPGRADE YOUR PRE TO 1.0.4 yet"
Jun 29 20:30:25 <Kaerey> me: "@PalmPreHelp why not?"
Jun 29 20:30:58 * geist suddenly finds himself in Twitter
Jun 29 20:31:12 <Kaerey> ^^^ no ways!
Jun 29 20:31:19 <tharris-> what i miss
Jun 29 20:32:01 <Sargun> o.O
Jun 29 20:32:07 * Sargun wonders what's going on
Jun 29 20:33:02 <Kaerey> ok I need to get back to real work, and then to figure out how to inclue wallpaper selection in my app and different scenes.
Jun 29 20:33:24 <tharris-> so my update failed, isnt that irony
Jun 29 20:33:29 <Kaerey> LOL
Jun 29 20:35:34 <Sargun> hehe
Jun 29 20:36:20 <tharris-> so frustrating, now i have to download webdoctor
Jun 29 20:38:20 <tharris-> they changed the webdoctor now too, you download a jar file that downloads the doctor
Jun 29 20:38:30 <sugardave> erg, you guys changed something, now I can't use su anymore just by following the wiki
Jun 29 20:38:41 <thadood> so far the only thing 1.0.4 has done to me is screwed up my cronjob for wallpaper randomization
Jun 29 20:38:44 <sugardave> what magic do I need to do to su (I'm not going to sudo every freaking command)
Jun 29 20:38:59 <tharris-> no "sudo su -" ?
Jun 29 20:39:31 <A2NY> sudo -i ?
Jun 29 20:39:51 * sugardave is just refusing to sudo on principle.
Jun 29 20:40:15 <msphobia> sudo sh
Jun 29 20:40:17 <tharris-> lol
Jun 29 20:40:23 <Kaerey> Best Twitter Post of the weekend: @Chuq: "it's emezeeng zee theengs yuoo du tu efueed dueeng reel vurk sume-a deys... Bork Bork Bork!"
Jun 29 20:40:25 <A2NY> sudo -lol
Jun 29 20:40:44 <Kaerey> chuq being chuq von rospach
Jun 29 20:41:36 <A2NY> using putty ssh, why do i get slowdowns if i leave the terminal not in focus ?
Jun 29 20:44:06 <giovani|work> putty ssh!
Jun 29 20:44:25 <A2NY> lol knock it off
Jun 29 20:44:53 <zule> i actually get horrible slow downs ssh'ing into my pre
Jun 29 20:44:59 <zule> haven't decided why yet
Jun 29 20:45:03 <zule> openssh...
Jun 29 20:45:06 <A2NY> yup
Jun 29 20:45:22 <SirWill> wifi SSH for me is not very good. USB is FAST.
Jun 29 20:45:23 <zule> I mostly use the novacmd interface so far
Jun 29 20:45:31 <A2NY> regadless of ppp or eth
Jun 29 20:45:48 <A2NY> nova keystrokes hate me
Jun 29 20:45:52 <zule> I should finish setting up usbnet and use it
Jun 29 20:45:52 <A2NY> so hard to edit in VI
Jun 29 20:46:15 <thadood> I just use nano =0
Jun 29 20:46:15 <geist> that should work fine
Jun 29 20:46:22 <giovani|work> edit the files off of the pre ...
Jun 29 20:46:27 <zule> I use nano as well
Jun 29 20:46:29 <zule> :)
Jun 29 20:46:33 <giovani|work> heh, nano
Jun 29 20:46:35 <geist> novacom/novaterm does the right terminal and signal stuff
Jun 29 20:46:38 <thadood> I can vi.. just faster for me to do nano.
Jun 29 20:46:44 <geist> i spent quite a bit of time getting that working
Jun 29 20:46:46 <giovani|work> how is nano faster?
Jun 29 20:46:55 <giovani|work> clearly you don't know how to use vi(m)
Jun 29 20:46:59 <zule> more intuitive if you don't know vi
Jun 29 20:47:03 <thadood> I grew up using nano/pico, lol.
Jun 29 20:47:12 <giovani|work> more simple, sure
Jun 29 20:47:17 <A2NY> i heart vi, it has never done me wrong
Jun 29 20:47:18 <giovani|work> but not faster if you know how to use both
Jun 29 20:47:26 <thadood> true.
Jun 29 20:47:39 <Technobabble> vi is unusable if you can't figure it out
Jun 29 20:47:51 <giovani|work> Technobabble: that's true of anything
Jun 29 20:47:54 <thadood> Only in the *nix community can there be such a war over what editor to use =)
Jun 29 20:47:57 <giovani|work> if you can't figure it out, it's useless
Jun 29 20:48:00 <bpadalino|work> geist, hows it going ?
Jun 29 20:48:12 <giovani|work> thadood: nope, these things exist in every geek community
Jun 29 20:48:15 <bpadalino|work> geist, we were able to get file transfer and good terminal stuff working
Jun 29 20:48:35 <hemna> vim baby!
Jun 29 20:48:37 <hemna> :P
Jun 29 20:48:38 <SirWill> http://www.lagmonster.org/docs/vi.html   Is my friend
Jun 29 20:48:38 <tharris-> meh cant believe the update bricked it
Jun 29 20:48:44 <zule> vi is only unusable until someone tells you about edit mode and the esc key
Jun 29 20:48:45 <zule> :)
Jun 29 20:48:46 <moted> Gah... Update on next charge just got me.  I guess I don't have a choice in updating now.
Jun 29 20:49:08 <hemna> so don't update to 1.0.4 ?
Jun 29 20:49:15 <geist> bpadalino|work: killer
Jun 29 20:49:17 <shaya> tharris-: its your fault for submitting bugs to get fixed
Jun 29 20:49:18 <shaya> :)
Jun 29 20:49:28 <SirWill> tharris  THAT ...... sucks!
Jun 29 20:49:29 <thadood> hemna: I haven't had a problem yet.
Jun 29 20:49:37 <hemna> ok
Jun 29 20:49:38 <bpadalino|work> geist, yeah - pretty slick .. might try to figure out a novaftp for simple file transfer
Jun 29 20:49:38 <Kaerey> If you want your device open to decent security holes then don't update.
Jun 29 20:49:50 <thadood> It replaced my crond file
Jun 29 20:49:53 <giovani|work> it's not a "security hole"
Jun 29 20:49:58 <SirWill> webdoctor essentially bakes it brand new software wise again right?
Jun 29 20:50:00 <geist> sure, and for a lot of files you can just pipe tar through it
Jun 29 20:50:01 <giovani|work> it's a feature the user has to act on
Jun 29 20:50:06 <geist> that's essentially what we do around here
Jun 29 20:50:14 <tharris-> giovani, there is a security hole
Jun 29 20:50:18 <tharris-> besides the email thing
Jun 29 20:50:20 <giovani|work> impossible to stop stupid users
Jun 29 20:50:30 <giovani|work> tharris-: and that would be? we've only heard about the email fix
Jun 29 20:50:43 <bpadalino|work> excellent
Jun 29 20:51:18 <tharris-> http://www.precentral.net/webos-104-released-your-ota-downloading-pleasure
Jun 29 20:51:21 <tharris-> read update 2
Jun 29 20:51:42 <giovani|work> tharris-: yeah, that doesn't say anything specific
Jun 29 20:51:54 <tharris-> trust me its exists =p
Jun 29 20:51:55 <giovani|work> "security issues" is not a useful statement
Jun 29 20:52:07 <tharris-> I would guess the want people patched before fixing it
Jun 29 20:52:09 <giovani|work> I shouldn't need to trust you, are you and palm interested in non-disclosure?
Jun 29 20:52:34 <hemna> pulling down 1.0.4
Jun 29 20:52:36 <giovani|work> if there are security problems, there needs to be disclosure about what they are
Jun 29 20:52:50 <giovani|work> so we can decide how to address them, whether to apply the update, etc
Jun 29 20:52:51 <zule> correct, AFTER people have had time to uipdate
Jun 29 20:52:58 <giovani|work> no
Jun 29 20:53:04 <giovani|work> companies abuse policies like that
Jun 29 20:53:11 <giovani|work> and never release information
Jun 29 20:53:26 <zule> before everyone gets a chance you open the door to russian hackers who want to make the zero day exploit hacks
Jun 29 20:53:38 <zule> but I agree, it needs to be disclosed
Jun 29 20:53:41 <giovani|work> if palm wants to take a non-disclosure approach, I'll be forced to open up the update and submit the changes to full-disclosure
Jun 29 20:53:42 <zule> just in a timely fashion
Jun 29 20:54:22 <tharris-> hey man i was just trying to do things the right way...
Jun 29 20:54:24 <mikewx> well giovani, from what palm says you don't really get a choice in applying the update anyway so might as well enjoy the ride. Lets have some faith that some information will come out. They made good on everything else they said.
Jun 29 20:54:42 <giovani|work> mikewx: the update code can be disabled
Jun 29 20:54:50 <giovani|work> tharris-: you think non-disclosure is "the right way"?
Jun 29 20:55:36 <mikewx> I think delayed disclosure is the right way with security fixes
Jun 29 20:55:37 <giovani|work> I've been involved in the security research community for many years, I can count the number of companies who do delayed-disclosure on a few hands
Jun 29 20:55:53 <tharris-> They turned this around in like a week plus, its pretty good
Jun 29 20:56:14 <giovani|work> turned what around? the only fix that's public is an email mod -- that's about 5 lines of code
Jun 29 20:56:42 <mikewx> it still had to be QC'ed and run through regression testing, approved for distrubution then packaged and distributed
Jun 29 20:56:52 <mikewx> a 1 week turnaround is DAMN GOOD
Jun 29 20:56:55 <mikewx> impressive even
Jun 29 20:56:55 <giovani|work> who said that was done in a week?
Jun 29 20:57:01 <zule> a example of why timed disclosure is good is the DNS expliot that came out recently... could you imagine the insanity if that was released before dns servers were patched?
Jun 29 20:57:23 <giovani|work> zule: that's an incredibly rare response for corporations
Jun 29 20:57:35 <giovani|work> if it worked like that on a regular basis, you'd see more researchers agreeing to delayed disclosure
Jun 29 20:57:53 <tharris-> I dunno what to say man, i chose the path of giving the company the opportunity to fix it and they did so im cool with it.  As far as disclosing it, i left that in their hands for now
Jun 29 20:58:05 <giovani|work> tharris-: that's an unfortunate choice
Jun 29 20:58:50 <tharris-> *shurg*
Jun 29 20:58:54 <tharris-> *shrug*
Jun 29 20:59:14 <tharris-> if they had ignored i would have dislclosed, its not that big a deal tbh
Jun 29 20:59:32 <SirWill> I'm on board with the delayed disclosure.  We will see if they can be trusted to disclose at a later time.
Jun 29 20:59:42 <giovani|work> you're keeping important information from those who would benefit from it
Jun 29 20:59:56 <tharris-> what are u going to do about it?
Jun 29 21:00:03 <tharris-> if you had the information
Jun 29 21:00:09 <giovani|work> I'm going to evaluate whether or not I'd apply this update
Jun 29 21:00:17 <giovani|work> just like I do with every update to software I use
Jun 29 21:00:24 <tharris-> ok, to each his own i guess
Jun 29 21:00:32 <tharris-> last i checked updates were going to be mandated
Jun 29 21:00:39 <giovani|work> I've already disabled them
Jun 29 21:00:42 <giovani|work> on my phone
Jun 29 21:00:48 <mikewx> giovani: you are an extreme minority, it's good that your kind exist but you are few
Jun 29 21:01:06 <tharris-> im fore full disclore on folks who arent willing to listen
Jun 29 21:01:09 <tharris-> for*
Jun 29 21:01:14 <tharris-> disclosure*
Jun 29 21:01:57 <giovani|work> mikewx: minority, absolutely -- we're also the group who creates the fixes when companies don't step up -- it's an important group
Jun 29 21:02:05 <giovani|work> so it's unwise to keep said community in the dark
Jun 29 21:02:08 <mikewx> ...as i said...
Jun 29 21:02:15 <mikewx> but this company was willing to step up
Jun 29 21:02:20 <mikewx> so give them a chance
Jun 29 21:02:32 <giovani|work> there's no evidence of that yet, that's all I'm saying
Jun 29 21:02:41 <tharris-> i agree giovani......
Jun 29 21:02:49 <tharris-> they have no track record yet
Jun 29 21:02:54 <mikewx> i think the patch is sufficient evidence they were willing to step up, now lets see about the disclousre
Jun 29 21:02:56 <VoodooGod> giovani. . . people *watching* this group may also be the ones that exploit vulnerabilities
Jun 29 21:02:57 <giovani|work> they've also made no promise
Jun 29 21:03:22 <giovani|work> VoodooGod: professional exploit writers don't need this channel to find vulnerabilities
Jun 29 21:03:29 <giovani|work> if you think they do, you're extremely confused
Jun 29 21:03:32 <VoodooGod> true, but it makes it easier
Jun 29 21:03:38 <giovani|work> it really doesn't
Jun 29 21:03:39 <A2NY> hell no.
Jun 29 21:03:47 <A2NY> if you know what you are doing, YOU know what you are doing
Jun 29 21:03:53 <mikewx> interesting
Jun 29 21:04:01 <giovani|work> exploit-writers don't need 10 vulnerabilities, just one
Jun 29 21:04:05 <giovani|work> so you can patch 8
Jun 29 21:04:15 <mikewx> you seem more concerned about provessional exploit-writers. i'm much more concerned about script-kiddies
Jun 29 21:04:32 <giovani|work> mikewx: script kiddies won't be writing their own exploits from a vulnerability explanation
Jun 29 21:04:40 <giovani|work> by definition, script kiddies don't write their own exploits
Jun 29 21:04:53 <bpadalino|work> hi cdm
Jun 29 21:04:58 <mikewx> perhaps i give them too much credit :)
Jun 29 21:04:58 <zule> they do when they graduate script kiddie school
Jun 29 21:05:00 <zule> :)
Jun 29 21:05:12 <giovani|work> zule: then they're exploit writers
Jun 29 21:05:18 <giovani|work> and will find more vulnerabilities than this group will
Jun 29 21:05:22 <mikewx> they're the AAA team :) not quite pros yet lol
Jun 29 21:05:22 <giovani|work> because it's their entire focus
Jun 29 21:05:36 <tharris-> giovani, i appreciate you opinion, lets see how they react...
Jun 29 21:05:46 <zule> I've only written one exploit and it was a stack overflow on a winmo phone
Jun 29 21:05:46 <tharris-> we arent a group lol
Jun 29 21:05:51 <giovani|work> tharris-: fine, let's just get a statement from them on their disclosure policy
Jun 29 21:06:01 <giovani|work> then we can put this to rest
Jun 29 21:06:08 <tharris-> i have already asked for one and an awaiting the response
Jun 29 21:06:20 <cdm> hey bpadalino
Jun 29 21:06:26 <mikewx> giovani|work: find a exploit, and send an email to their dedicated address offering to provide it and requesting their policy then
Jun 29 21:06:34 <giovani|work> mikewx: that's extortion
Jun 29 21:06:41 <mikewx> the fact that they have such an address, and obviously read it, impresses the hell out of me
Jun 29 21:06:45 <VoodooGod> so anyway. .real reason I'm on here.  Anyone know of a method to enable GPS chip without doing it from settings?  I have the GPS tracker working, but don't always have my GPS enabled on the phone
Jun 29 21:06:49 <giovani|work> mikewx: it does? seriously?
Jun 29 21:06:56 <mikewx> yeah
Jun 29 21:07:05 <giovani|work> your expectations are way too low
Jun 29 21:07:18 <mikewx> when was the last time microsoft patched a sploit in a week giving credit to teh people who put it out and providing the exact details of it?
Jun 29 21:07:28 <giovani|work> I wouldn't compare palm to microsoft
Jun 29 21:07:39 <giovani|work> they haven't provided any details
Jun 29 21:07:46 <giovani|work> but yes, I saw the credit
Jun 29 21:07:47 <MTW> and they don't need to
Jun 29 21:07:51 <MTW> the details are useless
Jun 29 21:07:55 <MTW> it's an exploit
Jun 29 21:07:56 <giovani|work> they do if they're going to be professional about this
Jun 29 21:07:57 <MTW> they fixed it
Jun 29 21:08:00 <giovani|work> no, it's a vulnerability
Jun 29 21:08:02 <MTW> that's called being professional
Jun 29 21:08:08 <giovani|work> who said they fixed it?
Jun 29 21:08:08 <mdklein_> I dunno, the official developer blog linking to the wiki is pretty cool, hopefully gets more eyes there
Jun 29 21:08:12 <MTW> not disclosing how to fuck up devices runnning 1.0.3
Jun 29 21:08:27 <giovani|work> I don't trust a company to properly fix holes without reviewing it
Jun 29 21:08:30 <jdub> one would hope they only disclose the details after a large % of users upgrade
Jun 29 21:08:44 <jblebrun> giovani: Then don't use their product.
Jun 29 21:08:45 <giovani|work> I can't test if they've fixed a vulnerability without a) knowing what it was, b) applying the fix, c) testing if it still exists
Jun 29 21:08:47 <jblebrun> Problem solved.
Jun 29 21:08:48 <tharris-> i have not confirmed it is fixed, cause the lovely update bricked my stuff till i get to my house
Jun 29 21:09:05 <MTW> speaking as someone who lives in the world of business, and not as someone who lives in the world of adolescent tantrum such as yourself, they did this correctly and professionally
Jun 29 21:09:19 <giovani|work> MTW: I work in the security business
Jun 29 21:09:22 <mikewx> i still see nothing wrong with what tehy did
Jun 29 21:09:28 <MTW> you work in your mom's basement. NEXT
Jun 29 21:09:36 <tharris-> ok gl all, ill bbiab
Jun 29 21:09:58 <mikewx> although i'm gonna miss install-via-email :)
Jun 29 21:10:28 <giovani|work> mikewx: don't worry, it looks simple to undo
Jun 29 21:10:57 <mikewx> yeah, i've been installing via cp so no biggie to me, but i had a nifty little script coded up to install for people
Jun 29 21:11:06 <mikewx> *shrugs* not that important.
Jun 29 21:11:19 <giovani|work> Palm did claim during the hype that loading non-approved apps would be possible
Jun 29 21:11:21 <mikewx> i'm still waiting to see how they expect commerical apps to live ona  platform where everyone has full access to source code
Jun 29 21:11:25 <giovani|work> that's currently a lie as I see it
Jun 29 21:11:43 <giovani|work> mikewx: uh ... commercial open source is a huge, and thriving business
Jun 29 21:12:09 <mikewx> yeah, well step out of your crystal palace and look at the rest of the world.
Jun 29 21:12:17 <giovani|work> access to source code is hardly the problem here -- all applications are pirated
Jun 29 21:12:21 <mikewx> most of it doesnt' run on commerical opensource
Jun 29 21:12:32 <giovani|work> mikewx: most businesses absolutely run commercial open source
Jun 29 21:12:32 <MTW> open source people are generally nutbags. real companies don't post details on how to fuck up devices runningm the old version the DAY, let alone EVER, they fix it
Jun 29 21:12:37 <MTW> open source nutbags, however, do
Jun 29 21:13:10 <summatusmentis> that's harsh
Jun 29 21:13:19 <giovani|work> MTW is extremely misinformed
Jun 29 21:13:29 <dsevil> MTW: you're on a channel full of open-source people... I *hope* you're trolling ;)
Jun 29 21:13:29 <mikewx> ok, well it's time for me to go home anyway, and before i say something i'll regret, like mtw, I think I should leave :)
Jun 29 21:13:45 <MTW> open source people and open source nutbags are two different things
Jun 29 21:13:53 <MTW> open source people contribute to projects, run OS software, etc
Jun 29 21:14:08 <MTW> nutbags demand that real companies perform the same way as OSS crap
Jun 29 21:14:10 <jdub> and yet you said OS people are generally nutbags
Jun 29 21:14:14 <bclancy> I have to disagree with MTW:  Security by obscurity is no security at all
Jun 29 21:14:26 <MTW> seems to be working well right now
Jun 29 21:14:31 <MTW> this is a timed solution
Jun 29 21:14:32 <giovani|work> MTW: nope, not even close
Jun 29 21:14:39 <A2NY> is the latest webos doctor 1.0.4 ?
Jun 29 21:14:53 <MTW> by the time you idiots reverse the update, all stock devices would have been auto-updated
Jun 29 21:14:58 <MTW> so it is only of use to you
Jun 29 21:15:13 <jdub> i suppose it's fair that while giovani|work shows little understanding of responsible security disclosure, MTW shows little understanding of open source :-)
Jun 29 21:15:26 <A2NY> LOL
Jun 29 21:15:43 <MTW> i'm fine with that
Jun 29 21:15:52 <giovani|work> jdub: responsible disclosure is the company releasing the update in a timely manner, and informing the community about what it addresses
Jun 29 21:15:55 <A2NY> so why are you in here then MTW ?
Jun 29 21:16:16 <MTW> no, responsible disclosure is the company fixing it quickly, and that's it
Jun 29 21:16:21 <MTW> no one needs to know how to sploit old devices
Jun 29 21:16:25 <giovani|work> no, that's called non-disclosure
Jun 29 21:16:35 <MTW> except brain dead scriptkiddies such as youreslf
Jun 29 21:16:41 <MTW> want palm to make it easy on you, lol
Jun 29 21:16:42 <jdub> giovani|work: i would attach "in a timely manner" to the latter half of your demand, but probably not the extreme definition you're assuming
Jun 29 21:16:53 <Lurking_Grue> MTW: Real companies let their users stay exposed to holes so they can't choose to not use whatever is broken. </sarcasm>
Jun 29 21:17:04 <giovani|work> jdub: if Palm had a statement of any disclosure policy whatsoever, I'd be far more satisfied
Jun 29 21:17:15 <MTW> DEAL WITH IT BITCH
Jun 29 21:17:18 <MTW> this is what you are getting
Jun 29 21:17:21 <jblebrun> Wow, ok guys.
Jun 29 21:17:23 <MTW> now shut up already
Jun 29 21:17:24 <MTW> god
Jun 29 21:17:28 <bpadalino|work> giovani, maybe palm will release it after the 10 days is up when it's "guaranteed" for their phones to be updated ?
Jun 29 21:17:32 <jblebrun> Can you take this somewhere else?
Jun 29 21:17:39 <VoodooGod> exactly. .. this is ridiculous.  The public (exploiters) can't know about this right away because it saves them time even if they could find it on their own.  At least wait until the update is pushed to everyone before getting your panties in a bunch.  By then maybe they'll fill everyone in on the vulnerability.  This is a ridiculous conversation.
Jun 29 21:17:41 <giovani|work> bpadalino|work: "maybe" is all we have, unfortunately
Jun 29 21:17:45 <bpadalino|work> giovani, otherwise it would be somewhat irresponsible, right ?
Jun 29 21:17:58 <dsevil> MTW makes me want to smoke crack
Jun 29 21:18:01 <giovani|work> bpadalino|work: that depends on who you ask, obviously
Jun 29 21:18:03 * MTW hits the bong
Jun 29 21:18:19 <bpadalino|work> giovani, you can implore them for full disclosure ..
Jun 29 21:18:32 * VoodooGod hits it next
Jun 29 21:18:55 <giovani|work> bpadalino|work: even Microsoft offers details about what the attack vectors are when they release updates
Jun 29 21:19:05 <MTW> giovani, fair warning, if you post the sploit details, reversed from the update, anywhere, i will fill palm in on where to find you
Jun 29 21:19:09 <MTW> so they can serve your retarded ass
Jun 29 21:19:11 <giovani|work> i.e. "we fixed a vulnerability in the code of directshow that allowed X level of access"
Jun 29 21:19:15 <zule> lol
Jun 29 21:19:24 <zule> there is nothing illegal with listing what a update does
Jun 29 21:19:27 <zule> I know that at least
Jun 29 21:19:28 <giovani|work> MTW: the EFF would battle Palm on that
Jun 29 21:19:37 <MTW> when you reverse it and post the details somewhere, it is
Jun 29 21:19:38 <giovani|work> reverse engineering code is protected under law
Jun 29 21:19:44 <MTW> no, it is illegal under the DCMA
Jun 29 21:19:46 <MTW> try again retard
Jun 29 21:19:49 <zule> no
Jun 29 21:19:52 <zule> he's right
Jun 29 21:19:57 <A2NY> http://www.palm.com/us/company/security/index.html
Jun 29 21:20:13 <sugardave> d00d, you are giving stoners a bad name
Jun 29 21:20:15 <jdub> MTW: you might want to read the legislation before attemting to make a case about it
Jun 29 21:20:24 <MTW> i'll leave that up to palm
Jun 29 21:20:26 <MTW> go on, post the details
Jun 29 21:20:30 <MTW> enjoy getting served\
Jun 29 21:20:32 <Lurking_Grue> MTW: Breaking encryption is illegal under the DMCA not reverse engeneering.
Jun 29 21:20:36 <VoodooGod> true, reverse engineering totally allowed.  You just can't use it to copy their work
Jun 29 21:20:49 <giovani|work> if I sign an NDA, and Palm gives me access to code, and I reverse it and post it, I've violated an NDA, not a law
Jun 29 21:20:57 <MTW> talk talk talk
Jun 29 21:20:58 <giovani|work> if Palm publishes, publically a closed source package
Jun 29 21:21:01 <MTW> go post details bitch
Jun 29 21:21:06 <MTW> watch yourself get pwnd irl
Jun 29 21:21:07 <giovani|work> and someone reverse engineers it, they're perfectly within their rights
Jun 29 21:21:14 <zule> sure you can copy it also... you just have to clean room engineer it
Jun 29 21:21:23 <jblebrun> MTW: Please stop with the name calling. It doesn't add anything to the conversation.
Jun 29 21:21:31 <zule> ie, reverse, report, rebuild with new coders/designers based on the report only
Jun 29 21:21:50 <VoodooGod> true, isn't their an open source "windows" project based on reverse engineering?
Jun 29 21:21:55 <zule> yes
Jun 29 21:21:56 <zule> :)
Jun 29 21:22:11 <jwm> hehe
Jun 29 21:22:16 <MTW> has he posted details yet?
Jun 29 21:22:21 <VoodooGod> lol
Jun 29 21:22:21 <MTW> that's all that matters
Jun 29 21:22:38 <Lurking_Grue> Reverse engineering is legal... breaking encryption isn't legal.   Palm did not encrypt the code.
Jun 29 21:22:40 <giovani|work> it's time consuming, I'll start on it when I get home
Jun 29 21:22:52 <MTW> hope you enjoy court
Jun 29 21:22:52 <MTW> alot
Jun 29 21:22:53 <jdub> Lurking_Grue: circumvention of (numerous kinds of) access control rather than "encryption" :-)
Jun 29 21:23:10 <giovani|work> jdub: there's no access control
Jun 29 21:23:17 <MTW> it's up to palm to disclose or not disclose
Jun 29 21:23:23 <giovani|work> MTW: you seem to be confused about the law -- go consult a lawyer
Jun 29 21:23:27 <MTW> not some neckbeard, borderline retarded hunk of shit such as yourself
Jun 29 21:23:39 <VoodooGod> MTW:  seriously, last time I share a bong with you.  :-P
Jun 29 21:23:40 <jwm> stop feeding the troll guys
Jun 29 21:23:46 <jdub> and i think it would be rather challenging for palm to suggest they employed anti-circumvention tech on the pre :-)
Jun 29 21:24:08 <funkatron> wow, this is deeply lame.
Jun 29 21:24:15 <Lurking_Grue> Jdub: Not even rot-13 ... much less double rot-13.
Jun 29 21:24:29 <VoodooGod> no kidding. . i hopped on hoping for some constructive conversation today ... yeaaaah right
Jun 29 21:24:29 <giovani|work> luckily, work ends in 30 minutes :)
Jun 29 21:24:49 <Rick__> for God's sake,  Palm posted a LINK TO THE PREDEV WIKI on the dev blog.  So, they clearly really hate what we do.
Jun 29 21:24:50 <zule> lol, they should rot-1 encode their ipk's to protect via the DMCA
Jun 29 21:24:58 <Rick__> having said that.  PLEASE GUYS
Jun 29 21:25:02 <Rick__> back to webos internals
Jun 29 21:25:05 <Rick__> PLEASE
Jun 29 21:25:27 <Rick__> If you want to badmouth palm, or their security policy or OUR security policy, go do it in #webos
Jun 29 21:25:29 <Rick__> not here.
Jun 29 21:25:33 <Rick__> Back to topic please
Jun 29 21:25:33 <jdub> oh, i got the impression it was irrational and clueless legal threats hour
Jun 29 21:25:34 <giovani|work> a discussion about updates, and the code they contain isn't internals-oriented?
Jun 29 21:25:35 <Rick__> PLEASE
Jun 29 21:25:43 <Rick__> updates and what they do yes.
Jun 29 21:26:02 <Rick__> The legality there of and palm's security policy and its intelligence, no.
Jun 29 21:26:30 <VoodooGod> so is there any info on the wiki about enabling GPS remotely?  I have the GPS tracker script (modified slightly) working but don't always have my GPS turned on.
Jun 29 21:26:30 <MTW> giovani, just go off and kill yourself
Jun 29 21:26:33 <A2NY> PRL appear to be the same between 1.0.3 & 1.0.4 :D
Jun 29 21:26:34 <MTW> you are honestly too stupid to live
Jun 29 21:26:38 <jdub> someone posted a list of changed files here: http://webos.pastebin.com/m428ac204 (thankfully not actually a diff)
Jun 29 21:26:58 <giovani|work> jdub: awesome, thanks
Jun 29 21:27:30 <MTW> excuse me, my pre wants me to update
Jun 29 21:27:50 <A2NY> say no to the peer pressure MTW
Jun 29 21:27:54 <sugardave> @Lurkig_Grue: I see what you did there...
Jun 29 21:27:54 <Kaerey> ^^^ Do it!! Do it!! but install my notification app first.
Jun 29 21:28:00 <MTW> link me
Jun 29 21:28:11 <A2NY> LOL
Jun 29 21:28:15 <funkatron> #webos could use the traffic
Jun 29 21:28:25 <bpadalino|work> giovani, i actually like that you're wanting to get public disclosure of the holes .. but that's just my opinion
Jun 29 21:28:44 <MTW> giovani thinks he gets to make the choice FOR palm
Jun 29 21:28:45 <MTW> he doesn't
Jun 29 21:28:53 <MTW> he will soon learn that much, in court no less
Jun 29 21:28:55 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, saw your interview with ars .. looked good
Jun 29 21:28:57 <Rick__> again MTW -- off topic
Jun 29 21:29:04 <funkatron> bpadalino|work: thanks!
Jun 29 21:29:05 <funkatron> 8)
Jun 29 21:29:06 <Rick__> switch to #webos
Jun 29 21:29:11 <giovani|work> bpadalino|work: good to know :)
Jun 29 21:29:13 <bpadalino|work> funkatron, how did you think they did with their write up ?
Jun 29 21:29:47 <funkatron> bpadalino|work: they did well. I've known ryan for a little while. He caught the gist of what I was saying
Jun 29 21:30:05 <bpadalino|work> that's good - i know a lot of people get burned on interviews when things are taken out of context
Jun 29 21:30:20 <bpadalino|work> glad you give thumbs up
Jun 29 21:30:40 <A2NY> can luna call shell scripts ?
Jun 29 21:30:44 <funkatron> yeah, not in this case. I'm kind of buddies witha few folks at Ars, so it helps. I think they really try to do a good job there. I'd rather give them the interview that others
Jun 29 21:31:08 <bpadalino|work> yeah - ars seems willing to write long articles and not just blog small snippets
Jun 29 21:31:15 <bpadalino|work> which is nice
Jun 29 21:31:35 <funkatron> indeed.
Jun 29 21:32:01 <funkatron> so yeah, they do good stuff there
Jun 29 21:33:21 <SirWill> I felt like we were in Junior high for a while
Jun 29 21:33:45 <Rick__> SirWill: let it lie please
Jun 29 21:33:54 <Rick__> lay
Jun 29 21:33:58 <Rick__> whichever word is correct
Jun 29 21:34:01 <SirWill> Sorry, I am letting it lie.  lay, what ever word it is
Jun 29 21:34:26 <MTW> now that its over
Jun 29 21:34:30 <MTW> anyone mind banning giovani
Jun 29 21:34:49 <bpadalino|work> i mind banning him
Jun 29 21:34:51 <MTW> pick a reason, retarded linux nutjob, brain dead retard, idiot who's breaking the dcma
Jun 29 21:35:07 <sugardave> awww jeez, not this shit again
Jun 29 21:35:09 <bpadalino|work> digital millenium copyright act - dmca
Jun 29 21:35:12 <Rick__> MTW  --  fair warning
Jun 29 21:35:41 <MTW> what's your warning
Jun 29 21:35:44 <MTW> last i checked you aren't +o
Jun 29 21:36:02 <Rick__> it's available.
Jun 29 21:36:02 <psykoz> he could be +o ;)
Jun 29 21:36:20 <A2NY> he could be sexy too ;)
Jun 29 21:36:33 <Rick__> too old to be sexy.
Jun 29 21:36:41 <A2NY> my hopes :(
Jun 29 21:36:48 <A2NY> goneee
Jun 29 21:37:14 <bpadalino|work> so from this diff that is on webos.pastebin.com
Jun 29 21:37:18 <Rick__> Look MTW.   This channel exists for a purpose.  You might not approve of the purpose.  Ok, we got that.  But for god's sake, if you disapprove of the conversations  please go somewhere ELSE.  You are not going to change anyone's mind and the constant inturruptions are annoying
Jun 29 21:37:20 <bpadalino|work> not mnay files were touched ?
Jun 29 21:37:45 <giovani|work> bpadalino|work: indeed, and a number of them look like they're probably more bugfix oriented than security
Jun 29 21:37:48 <bpadalino|work> the power alarms and sys timeouts have changed ...
Jun 29 21:37:55 <bpadalino|work> maybe for faster rebooting /
Jun 29 21:38:10 <giovani|work> any idea what the new CA cert is for?
Jun 29 21:38:40 <bpadalino|work> no clue .. maybe used for internal app signage as opposed to entire app signage ?
Jun 29 21:38:47 <giovani|work> possibly
Jun 29 21:38:52 <mdklein_> perhaps they're going to start signing OS updates
Jun 29 21:39:01 <giovani|work> it would be a damn good idea
Jun 29 21:39:17 <giovani|work> they are SSLing them ... but no cert-verification on the pre
Jun 29 21:39:22 <MTW> back
Jun 29 21:39:26 <giovani|work> this is how I MITMed it last time
Jun 29 21:39:36 <MTW> i'll stop the second gioretard gets banned
Jun 29 21:39:38 <giovani|work> may have to replace that file if we want to do it in the future
Jun 29 21:39:50 <bpadalino|work> gionavi, well - wouldn't the signage be bad for creating your own apps to run ?
Jun 29 21:40:05 <giovani|work> bpadalino|work: I was presuming they'd only use it for OS updates
Jun 29 21:40:10 <bpadalino|work> ah
Jun 29 21:40:16 <bpadalino|work> that would be good
Jun 29 21:40:27 <giovani|work> but yes, it would be bad if they wanted to go the apple route, and require apple digital signatures for approved apps
Jun 29 21:40:39 <bpadalino|work> i never even noticed a .uprepare.sh in the /usr/lib/palmos directory before
Jun 29 21:41:03 <psykoz> my phone isn'[t updated yet, I think I'm going to be the official guinea pig to see what the repercussions are of not updating your phone for > 10 days
Jun 29 21:41:17 <giovani|work> psykoz: have you disabled auto-updates?
Jun 29 21:41:22 <psykoz> yes
Jun 29 21:41:30 <giovani|work> nothing bad will happen :)
Jun 29 21:41:37 <bpadalino|work> ah, interesting
Jun 29 21:42:05 <Kaerey> I had a request from someone to make a diabetes calculator if someone would like to work with me on it. I think it might be a bit beyond my skill level but I would love to work on it. Seems like a valuable thing.
Jun 29 21:42:16 <giovani|work> I'd like to see the changes for /var/luna/data/CarrierNetworkSettings.db3 as well
Jun 29 21:42:16 <psykoz> So I want something like Locale for my Pre
Jun 29 21:44:04 <bpadalino|work> giovani|work, so are you going to look at the binary differences between LunaSysMgr and the BrowserAdapter.so for the two versions ?
Jun 29 21:44:31 <giovani|work> bpadalino|work: is that of specific interest?
Jun 29 21:44:41 <bpadalino|work> that is probably where the security hole was patched
Jun 29 21:45:22 <giovani|work> hmm, I will take a look
Jun 29 21:45:27 <giovani|work> 15 minutes and I'm out of here :)
Jun 29 21:45:32 <bpadalino|work> very nice
Jun 29 21:45:53 <giovani|work> what time zone are you in?
Jun 29 21:47:53 <bpadalino|work> east coast
Jun 29 21:47:56 <bpadalino|work> i get in to work late
Jun 29 21:48:02 <bpadalino|work> so it's 5:46p here
Jun 29 21:48:38 <A2NY> has anyone played around with the powerd.conf ?
Jun 29 21:49:01 <bpadalino|work> no, is there something of interest in there, a2ny ?
Jun 29 21:50:16 <giovani|work> bpadalino|work: ah, same -- nyc
Jun 29 21:50:31 <A2NY> [general]
Jun 29 21:50:31 <A2NY> debug = 0
Jun 29 21:50:31 <A2NY> [battery]
Jun 29 21:50:31 <A2NY> fake_battery = false
Jun 29 21:50:34 <A2NY> disable_charging = false
Jun 29 21:50:38 <A2NY> [suspend]
Jun 29 21:50:40 <A2NY> wait_idle_ms = 500
Jun 29 21:50:42 <A2NY> after_resume_idle_ms = 1000
Jun 29 21:50:44 <A2NY> wait_suspend_response_ms = 30000
Jun 29 21:50:46 <A2NY> wait_prepare_suspend_ms = 5000
Jun 29 21:50:48 <A2NY> suspend_with_charger = false
Jun 29 21:51:12 <bpadalino|work> interesting
Jun 29 21:51:36 <A2NY> reason i ask
Jun 29 21:52:03 <A2NY> you can remote in via ppp even though the device is suspended, not with eth has we know
Jun 29 21:52:25 <giovani|work> yeah, radio has  to be active, clearly
Jun 29 21:52:30 <A2NY> LOL exactly
Jun 29 21:52:38 <giovani|work> suspend = no phone for you!
Jun 29 21:52:39 <giovani|work> :)
Jun 29 21:52:51 <A2NY> but when ppp you can get these powerd messages that are just a bear while trying to work
Jun 29 21:53:28 <A2NY> i wish it can be so easy to add suspend_with_battery = false
Jun 29 21:53:52 <bpadalino|work> you can initctl stop powerd
Jun 29 21:54:07 <bpadalino|work> and when you want it to go back to sleep and act normally, initctl start powerd
Jun 29 21:54:28 <bpadalino|work> has anyone gone through and documented the initctl services that can be stopped/started and what they control ?
Jun 29 21:54:39 <A2NY> ill check it out
Jun 29 21:54:55 <A2NY> if you kill it, i know it starts back up
Jun 29 21:56:00 <bpadalino|work> right, initctl actually stops the service
Jun 29 21:56:24 <A2NY> yes
Jun 29 21:56:50 <mdklein_> /etc/event.d is where the services are defined
Jun 29 21:57:15 <A2NY> when you stop powerd the device suspends itself, everything locked
Jun 29 21:57:33 <bpadalino|work> a2ny, really ?
Jun 29 21:57:34 <bpadalino|work> strange
Jun 29 21:57:34 <A2NY> just FYI
Jun 29 21:57:46 <bpadalino|work> i thought people have been using that in the past
Jun 29 21:57:47 <bpadalino|work> with success
Jun 29 21:58:02 <A2NY> ok
Jun 29 21:58:12 <mdklein_> didn't do it for me
Jun 29 21:58:16 <mdklein_> I just stopped it
Jun 29 21:58:24 <A2NY> try to use the phone
Jun 29 21:58:28 <mdklein_> I am
Jun 29 21:58:38 <mdklein_> just unlocked the screen, launched mail
Jun 29 21:58:41 <A2NY> =\
Jun 29 21:58:43 <A2NY> lucky you
Jun 29 21:59:16 <A2NY> it locks it in its last state
Jun 29 21:59:29 <bpadalino|work> that sounds like it makes sense
Jun 29 21:59:30 <mdklein_> well yeah, powerd is how it updates
Jun 29 21:59:30 <bpadalino|work> :)
Jun 29 21:59:49 <bpadalino|work> make sure your phone is in a workable state before killing the daemon which shuts things down
Jun 29 21:59:55 <A2NY> exactly!
Jun 29 21:59:58 <bpadalino|work> :)
Jun 29 22:00:43 <destinal> MTW: palm knows where to find us, everything here is logged and public :)
Jun 29 22:01:55 <destinal> btw I totally agree that palm should release the vulnerability details and if they don't the patch should be reverse engineered, this is public info, the black hats will certainly get it and not publish it
Jun 29 22:01:55 <cdm> logged in many people's clients as well...
Jun 29 22:02:05 <destinal> the white hats should also have it
Jun 29 22:02:42 <cphelps> destinal: what about the no hat having types?
Jun 29 22:03:05 <A2NY> i think you should start wearing a hat
Jun 29 22:03:16 <destinal> their heads might get cold. :)
Jun 29 22:03:55 <cphelps> destinal: that's bad for you folks, since I'm about half way done with a new compile of the palm installer
Jun 29 22:04:42 <destinal> cphelps: eh?
Jun 29 22:05:23 <cphelps> working on our own Installer/Packager
Jun 29 22:05:29 <destinal> ah, cool
Jun 29 22:05:49 <A2NY> grrrr
Jun 29 22:05:51 <cphelps> So far it seems pretty easy. Lots of JSON talking
Jun 29 22:06:03 <cphelps> which didn't decompile well, but I'm muddling through
Jun 29 22:06:08 <A2NY> winscp, how do i login as root with ssh/ dev disabled
Jun 29 22:08:10 <bclancy> A2NY:  You first create a non-root user, login as that user, and "sudo su -"
Jun 29 22:08:40 <bclancy> perhaps I did not understand your question
Jun 29 22:08:51 <A2NY> dev disabled
Jun 29 22:09:11 <A2NY> ssh port 222
Jun 29 22:09:20 <A2NY> i login with winscp
Jun 29 22:09:32 <A2NY> i cannot make changes
Jun 29 22:09:33 <bpadalino|work> dev only enables novacom ... if you don't plan on using novacom, dev doesn't matter
Jun 29 22:09:35 <A2NY> mounted as rw
Jun 29 22:09:36 <bclancy> by dev disabled, you mean usb disabled
Jun 29 22:09:54 <cphelps> You have to set the sftp server to use sudo /opt/libexec/sftp-server
Jun 29 22:09:56 <bclancy> unplug and re-plug in the cablke
Jun 29 22:09:58 <A2NY> i was under the impression dev enabled = no root pw
Jun 29 22:10:04 <destinal> bpadalino|work: doesn't dev mode also adjust iptables rules?
Jun 29 22:10:11 <bpadalino|work> destinal, possibly
Jun 29 22:11:55 <bpadalino|work> i want to figure out how to get my pre into OBEY mod
Jun 29 22:11:56 <bpadalino|work> mode
Jun 29 22:12:57 <bpadalino|work> i also can't figure out how to get it into "DFU" mode ... bootie is the earliest i can get into it
Jun 29 22:13:48 <A2NY> oh well no luck
Jun 29 22:14:00 <A2NY> ill just use the command line =\
Jun 29 22:14:09 <A2NY> if i try to log in with root it asks for a pw
Jun 29 22:14:26 <bpadalino|work> you need to setup your keys if you want to do that .. since you don't want to give root a password
Jun 29 22:14:39 <cphelps> A2NY: the setup isn't supposed to work that way. You want to login as unpriv'd
Jun 29 22:18:05 <tharris-> sup
Jun 29 22:18:40 <A2NY> i do
Jun 29 22:18:47 <A2NY> but cannot make changes to the file system
Jun 29 22:19:13 <Rick__> sudo
Jun 29 22:19:23 <A2NY> this is from winscp
Jun 29 22:19:30 <Rick__> ahhh
Jun 29 22:19:34 <cphelps> A2NY: you need to run the server with root privsm, whichmeans sudo /opt/libexec/sftp-server in the SFTP setup
Jun 29 22:19:35 <A2NY> i can make all the changes i want from a terminal ;)
Jun 29 22:19:49 <cphelps> A2NY: It's right on the wiki
Jun 29 22:20:03 <A2NY> i got them =\
Jun 29 22:20:07 <A2NY> let me reboot
Jun 29 22:20:16 <cphelps> Environment > SFTP > SFTP Server
Jun 29 22:20:34 <cphelps> set that to sudo /opt/libexec/sftp-server
Jun 29 22:21:11 <tharris-> wish my phone wasnt still bricked lol
Jun 29 22:21:25 <Cleanser> that suxx =/
Jun 29 22:21:27 <A2NY> havent doctored it yet ?
Jun 29 22:21:43 <tharris-> still trying to get it to work, llast one didnt
Jun 29 22:21:51 <Cleanser> whats it do?
Jun 29 22:22:01 <tharris-> meh just a logo, waiting till new download comes down
Jun 29 22:22:52 <Cleanser> what OS you using?
Jun 29 22:23:10 <bclancy> installing the update now (yeah, I wanted to be sure it would be OK first)
Jun 29 22:23:31 <Cleanser> This post helped me to get webos doctor to work: http://forums.precentral.net/hardware-use-trouble-shooting/187641-case-you-cant-get-webos-doctor-work.html
Jun 29 22:24:22 <tharris-> ill know in like 3 minutes
Jun 29 22:24:37 <A2NY> Error message from server: Permission denied
Jun 29 22:24:41 <PullingJ_> A2NY: you need the sudo stuff for sftp-server in your winscp config
Jun 29 22:25:28 <Robi_> is there a new version of the webosdoctor yet?
Jun 29 22:25:32 <tharris-> yes
Jun 29 22:25:43 <Robi_> nice so they're keeping up
Jun 29 22:25:55 <tharris-> but they changed it, you download a jar and it downloads the doctor now
Jun 29 22:26:13 <Robi_> ya more like an installer for it
Jun 29 22:26:13 <A2NY> awesome thank you
Jun 29 22:26:55 <tharris-> yeah
Jun 29 22:31:17 <destinal> You can just download the jar and run it with java -jar    also
Jun 29 22:31:19 <tharris-> seems to be working
Jun 29 22:31:21 <tharris-> yeah
Jun 29 22:31:26 <tharris-> but just noting it changed
Jun 29 22:31:32 <tharris-> i want to test my findings =p
Jun 29 22:32:40 <Robi_> doubleclicking generally works
Jun 29 22:33:08 <tharris-> heh
Jun 29 22:34:21 <destinal> don't know if anyone already documented this but checking status of and setting devmode at cmd line is easy also (though not so easy as in the gui if you have it unhidden so you don't have to search konami)
Jun 29 22:34:21 <destinal> luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.connectionmanager/getnovacommode {}    #  isEnabled will return true or false
Jun 29 22:34:21 <destinal> luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.connectionmanager/setnovacommode '{"isEnabled":true}'  # to enable
Jun 29 22:34:37 <destinal> required reboot to take effect of course
Jun 29 22:36:46 <destinal> also for null JSON objects with luna-send,  any character seems to work as well as {}, for instance
Jun 29 22:36:48 <destinal> luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan -
Jun 29 22:38:54 <Tivon> I had to webDR my phone 3 times went I was learning to get the optware feed, before the page got updated with more concise directions
Jun 29 22:38:59 <Tivon> when*
Jun 29 22:39:28 <Tivon> I just noticed this on the wikihttp://predev.wikidot.com/track-skipping-using-volume-up-down-buttons
Jun 29 22:39:35 <Tivon> talked about that a few weeks ago
Jun 29 22:39:37 <Tivon> nice
Jun 29 22:41:39 <bclancy> Tivon:  are you on OS X?
Jun 29 22:44:31 <Tivon> yea
Jun 29 22:44:51 <Tivon> "If you use the included headphones, you can skip to the next track by pressing the microphone mute button twice. A solution is still needed for cases where there are no hardware keys on the headphones you're using."
Jun 29 22:44:55 <Tivon> didn't know that
Jun 29 22:46:34 <bclancy> There was confusing wording on step 3 of the OSX rooting page that confused people - We cleaned that up a bit - still maybe TMI in that step, but it no longer trops people up when they get to the step where it was failing for you.  Glad to see that the new wording is at least working now.
Jun 29 22:47:09 <bclancy> If anything was confusing, you can make suggestions and I'll try and update the wiki more if warranted.
Jun 29 22:47:13 <bclancy> over
Jun 29 22:49:27 <rwhitby> so 1.0.4 is released?  did they keep dev mode and plug the email hole as I predicted?
Jun 29 22:49:50 <A2NY> dev mode is still avail
Jun 29 22:50:25 <Technobabble> whitby, i think tharris- said it messed his up
Jun 29 22:50:51 <tharris-> rwhitby it did mess mine up
Jun 29 22:50:55 <tharris-> its reflashing now though
Jun 29 22:51:10 <destinal> rwhitby: yup, dev mode good, email hole plugged
Jun 29 22:51:18 <Tivon> bclancy, I'm not excatly sure which step I was messing up on, but I realized once the wiki was updated, and I webDR'd then walked back through the steps slowly, it worked for me just fine, but before the update, i was on a dead end over and over again.
Jun 29 22:51:25 <tharris-> I spoke with Palm, you might see more information on the security stuff =p
Jun 29 22:51:31 <rwhitby> tharris-: did you have mods to palm files in place, other than ipkg-opt installs?
Jun 29 22:51:37 <destinal> some other mysterious security fixes to vulns tharris- reported as well that have not yet been mentioned
Jun 29 22:51:56 <rwhitby> did anyone who *only* had ipkg-opt installs, and no manual mods to palm files, have problems?
Jun 29 22:52:21 <bclancy> thx Tivon
Jun 29 22:52:21 <rwhitby> tharris-: good stuff - we want any security vulnerabilities to be plugged.
Jun 29 22:52:22 <destinal> I don't know if anyone had problems besides tharris- which is almost funny
Jun 29 22:52:38 <PullingJ_> tharris-: any idea what broke your phone?
Jun 29 22:52:48 <Tivon> considering doing this mod "Changing the "Turn off after X" time" http://predev.wikidot.com/changing-the-turn-off-after-x-time-in-the-palm-pre
Jun 29 22:52:54 <rwhitby> I suspect mods to palm files, which were not reverted before the update.
Jun 29 22:53:00 <tharris-> the patch =p
Jun 29 22:53:07 <Tivon> I like to keep my PIN code on my phone, but it ask for it much too quickly, I may set it to 30 mins
Jun 29 22:53:23 <tharris-> I did that mod Tivon =p
Jun 29 22:53:30 <rwhitby> tharris-: will you be around in 30 mins?  I'd like to go through the failure in detail with you.
Jun 29 22:53:38 <Tivon> how much time do you give yourself?
Jun 29 22:53:50 <rwhitby> tharris-: (and try and reproduce and understand it if we can)
Jun 29 22:53:53 <destinal> rwhitby: http://webos.pastebin.com/d4aecbf83   (it's not entirely accurate since it's from running system before and after, when a new doctor version comes out we'll have a definitive list)
Jun 29 22:54:03 <tharris-> could be rwhitby, daughter is cranky atm, but i will be  on later
Jun 29 22:54:24 <Tivon> what does the 1.04 update, i just keep hearing a "security" buzzword but nothing specific
Jun 29 22:54:29 <rwhitby> tharris-: later is better for me - look after your family first.
Jun 29 22:54:35 <tharris-> same to you
Jun 29 22:54:49 <bclancy> one person initctl powerd stop'ed while the wifi was down and bricked his pre (or at least I think that's what happened), but that probably would have happened before the update anyway - the conclusion is to make sure wifi. etc is up when you do this.  Perhaps playing Pandora before you start might be a good way to ensure this?
Jun 29 22:55:51 <bclancy> sorry for my laymans's terminlogy - maybe someone can fill in with more exact/precise details
Jun 29 22:55:58 <destinal> I had just reimaged mine with the doctor before updating, I imagine that's about bulletproof :)
Jun 29 22:56:17 <destinal> I did it to get a diff though, not being paranoid
Jun 29 22:56:57 <A2NY> LOL blancy
Jun 29 22:57:03 <A2NY> you might want to make that 2
Jun 29 22:57:11 <Tivon> updated this morning and still have root and everything seems norm so far
Jun 29 22:57:48 * rwhitby bbiab
Jun 29 22:58:23 <A2NY> i cannot auth on the wireless network
Jun 29 22:58:30 <Tivon> Question on the clarify on an instruction for http://predev.wikidot.com/changing-the-turn-off-after-x-time-in-the-palm-pre
Jun 29 22:58:47 <Tivon> 2) SSH to your pre and sudo to root. Execute "rootfs_open -w".?
Jun 29 22:59:01 <Tivon> if I try to sudo rootfs_open -w
Jun 29 22:59:08 <Tivon> not really sure how to exec. that
Jun 29 22:59:15 <A2NY> mount -o remount rw /
Jun 29 22:59:40 <Tivon> a2Ny "sudo mount -o..."?
Jun 29 22:59:40 <bclancy> desitnal:  I was doing the following command (before I upated) and then noticed after a while that my Pre was rebooting:  "find /media/internal -exec sum -r {} \; -exec ls -ld {} \; | tee /find.meia.interal.txt"
Jun 29 22:59:55 <A2NY> are you logged in as root ?
Jun 29 23:00:03 <bclancy> yes
Jun 29 23:00:10 <Tivon> no, I'm ssh'd as myuser
Jun 29 23:00:15 <Tivon> not telnet as root
Jun 29 23:00:46 <A2NY> im lazy, i just "sudo -i"
Jun 29 23:00:53 <A2NY> "cd /"
Jun 29 23:00:54 <Tivon> ok
Jun 29 23:01:00 <A2NY> then
Jun 29 23:01:05 <A2NY> "mount -o remount rw /"
Jun 29 23:04:49 <gaffo|away> destinal, hey, did bpadalino ever talk to you about getting a usb dump of when it's imaging the device?
Jun 29 23:05:24 <destinal2> gaffo|away: no, but it sounds like it might be worthwhile..
Jun 29 23:05:35 <gaffo|away> destinal, you have windows?
Jun 29 23:05:41 <destinal2> yes
Jun 29 23:06:09 <gaffo|away> destinal, cool. We were lookin for someone who was not afraid to re-image their device.
Jun 29 23:06:34 <destinal2> gaffo|away: yeah, no problem there.
Jun 29 23:06:56 <A2NY> i might need to re-image mine =\
Jun 29 23:07:11 <gaffo|away> cool, well, I gotta re-image this desktop :( be back in an hour or 2 :)
Jun 29 23:07:18 <destinal_> cool
Jun 29 23:11:29 <logos> anyone know where the quicklaunch configurations are stored?
Jun 29 23:15:50 <bclancy> A2NY:  I think if you want to disable root not being able to ssh login, you can change line 8 of /etc/default/rcS from NO to YES
Jun 29 23:16:31 <bclancy> I haven't tried this yet.  Maybe you might want to?
Jun 29 23:17:35 <A2NY> nahhh, its all good i got it
Jun 29 23:17:39 <A2NY> but i think i bricked the wifi
Jun 29 23:17:51 <A2NY> with initctl
Jun 29 23:18:39 <no1leftypitcher> have any of you guys setup the gps tracker (sending coordinates to email)?
Jun 29 23:18:58 <no1leftypitcher> how did that work for you guys?
Jun 29 23:19:08 <bclancy> Oh so, that was you that said that - Maybe running Pandora while stopping powerd will ensure that its up when the daemon is stopped
Jun 29 23:20:18 <monkeyxplosion> Hey, I'm kind of a Linux newb and I'm trying to root my Pre and running into somoe difficulties.  Can anyone offer some assistance?
Jun 29 23:20:35 <Lurking_Grue> no1: I have.
Jun 29 23:20:53 * rwhitby catches up on the overnight backlog ....
Jun 29 23:21:08 <Lurking_Grue> No1: Though I have it it a php page on a webserver every 20 minutes.
Jun 29 23:21:31 <no1leftypitcher> did you notice that the coordinates are truncated much earlier when the pre is on standby?
Jun 29 23:21:39 <rwhitby> Ah good, so we know have official confirmation that the Chief Security Architect at Palm is aware of our community.
Jun 29 23:21:46 <rwhitby> s/know/now/
Jun 29 23:22:26 <rwhitby> http://pdnblog.palm.com/2009/06/webos-104-released-to-address-security-vulnerability/
Jun 29 23:24:43 <A2NY> yup, so know i get a unable to connect on my wifi
Jun 29 23:26:38 <A2NY> can anyone check "initctl list"
Jun 29 23:26:44 <A2NY> and see if networking is running or not
Jun 29 23:26:52 <Technobabble> could it be an issue with the router?
Jun 29 23:27:16 <bclancy> monkeyxplosion:  what is the operating system the computer your pre's USB cable is attached to?
Jun 29 23:27:27 <monkeyxplosion> winxp
Jun 29 23:27:31 <monkeyxplosion> media center SP3
Jun 29 23:27:59 <bclancy> monkeyxplosion:  which wiki page and what step are you on?
Jun 29 23:28:02 <monkeyxplosion> i'm telneted into my pre over wifi
Jun 29 23:28:18 <bclancy> so you have it rooted then?
Jun 29 23:28:22 <monkeyxplosion> yes
Jun 29 23:28:26 <monkeyxplosion> i'm on Enable the Optware Package Feed
Jun 29 23:28:48 <monkeyxplosion> i'm on step 5
Jun 29 23:28:50 <bclancy> are you installing dropbear or openssh?
Jun 29 23:29:22 <bclancy> let me see if I can find the wiki page where you are
Jun 29 23:29:41 <monkeyxplosion> i have the ipkg-opt_0.99.163-10_arm.ipk package downloaded but i can't seem to unpack it
Jun 29 23:30:11 <monkeyxplosion> when i run ls -all the package is in the /tmp/ipkg directory
Jun 29 23:30:39 <monkeyxplosion> but when i go to unpackage, i get a "No such file and directory"
Jun 29 23:30:48 <PullingJ_> well i'm about to find if any of my hacks will brick my phone.. i accidently hit install now when i dropped it on the touch stone
Jun 29 23:31:07 <bclancy> monkeyxplosion:  (Sorry this sounds like I'm from India):  Sre you on this page?  http://predev.wikidot.com/next-steps-after-rooting
Jun 29 23:31:25 <Technobabble> A2NY, i don't see "network" in there at all
Jun 29 23:31:28 <monkeyxplosion> bclancy, yes i am
Jun 29 23:33:22 <bclancy> I'm studying the instructions, stand by ...
Jun 29 23:33:24 <PullingJ_> i can still ssh in, so i guess i'm good
Jun 29 23:33:31 <PullingJ_> it's still booting though
Jun 29 23:34:11 * monkeyxplosion is in a holding pattern
Jun 29 23:35:14 <A2NY> welll... i went from cannot access to failed IP
Jun 29 23:35:21 <A2NY> gettin somewhere grrrr
Jun 29 23:35:53 <Technobabble> rootfs on / type rootfs (rw)
Jun 29 23:36:01 <Technobabble> okay, so my rootfs is writable
Jun 29 23:36:11 <Technobabble> but when i do a mount -o remount ro / it stays
Jun 29 23:37:13 <bclancy> It looks like an error was introduced when the instructions were last changed ...
Jun 29 23:37:29 <monkeyxplosion> ok
Jun 29 23:37:52 <bclancy> sin step 3, the packagew was saved in /tmp
Jun 29 23:38:18 <monkeyxplosion> so if i cd /tmp and try to unpack, it should work?
Jun 29 23:38:33 <bclancy> hold on, I'm wrong ...
Jun 29 23:38:55 <loot> is the kernel fairly stock or is "joplin" a major patch?
Jun 29 23:39:05 <rwhitby> loot: patches are on the palm opensource site
Jun 29 23:39:11 <loot> excellent
Jun 29 23:39:15 <loot> anyone tried grsec kernel yet?
Jun 29 23:39:16 <rwhitby> http://opensource.palm.com/1.0.2/index.html
Jun 29 23:39:22 <loot> if not... i'll be the first ;)
Jun 29 23:39:25 <no1leftypitcher> is there a way to run a script at shutdown? where would I put it
Jun 29 23:39:36 <rwhitby> tonycpsu is the only one I know of who has flashed a custom kernel
Jun 29 23:39:54 <loot> ah ok
Jun 29 23:40:09 <loot> im going to attempt doing the grsecurity patch against the pre kernel
Jun 29 23:40:31 <loot> PaX fully supports ARMv7 and up so it should be sexy :)
Jun 29 23:41:17 <Lurking_Grue> rwhitby: What is different in his custom kernel?
Jun 29 23:41:43 <bclancy> monkeyxplosion:  the instructions seem to be working for me, can you redo the last tar command changing the "x" in the tar command to a "t" (to list files w/o extracting)?
Jun 29 23:42:12 <loot> i just got my pre an hour ago
Jun 29 23:42:15 <loot> awesome it comes with vpnc!
Jun 29 23:42:18 <loot> i was hoping it did
Jun 29 23:42:27 <loot> let the hackathon begin :)
Jun 29 23:42:57 <monkeyxplosion> bclancy: so...      tar tvzf ../ipkg-opt_0.99.163-10_arm.ipk ??
Jun 29 23:43:48 <PullingJ_> well, i'm at 1.0.4 now, no apparent issues
Jun 29 23:43:59 <gkatsev> ditto
Jun 29 23:44:34 <PullingJ_> any idea what the: "configuration: sprint 1.6" vs sprint 1.5 on 1.0.3 refers to?
Jun 29 23:44:41 <monkeyxplosion> bclancy:  i tried that and again, no such file or directory
Jun 29 23:44:42 <bclancy> monkeyxplosion:  yes,  before doing that, see if your tar file is the same size (first line) and same checsum (2nd line) below:
Jun 29 23:44:44 <bclancy> root@castle:/# ls -ld /tmp/ipkg/data.tar.gz
Jun 29 23:44:46 <bclancy> -rw-r--r--    1 2001     2001        74148 Aug 23  2008 /tmp/ipkg/data.tar.gz
Jun 29 23:44:47 <bclancy> root@castle:/# sum /tmp/ipkg/data.tar.gz
Jun 29 23:44:49 <bclancy> 56660    73
Jun 29 23:44:51 <bclancy> root@castle:/#
Jun 29 23:45:03 <rwhitby> Lurking_Grue: dunno, he never wrote up anything on the wiki
Jun 29 23:45:03 <Noahbody> ok so what does the 1.04 update change security wise?
Jun 29 23:45:14 <bclancy> OK, lets retrace back a few steps then ...
Jun 29 23:45:16 <bclancy> \
Jun 29 23:45:26 <rwhitby> loot: welcome.  I'll /msg you the wiki pw
Jun 29 23:45:40 <no1leftypitcher> how would I run a script that gets kicked off at shutdown?
Jun 29 23:45:49 <giovani> Noahbody: a number of us would like to know the answer to that -- we're working on finding out, Palm hasn't released any specifics beyond the email link loading of ipkgs
Jun 29 23:45:56 <Noahbody> ok
Jun 29 23:45:56 <bclancy> Do you have this one:
Jun 29 23:45:58 <bclancy> root@castle:/# ls -l /tmp//ipkg-opt_0.99.163-10_arm.ipk
Jun 29 23:46:00 <bclancy> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root        74456 Jun 29 19:36 /tmp//ipkg-opt_0.99.163-10_arm.ipk
Jun 29 23:46:03 <bclancy> root@castle:/#
Jun 29 23:46:16 <Noahbody> i wonder if it has to do with getting root on the pre or not
Jun 29 23:46:33 <giovani> Noahbody: no
Jun 29 23:46:53 <Noahbody> oh if i remember correctly i seen someone talking about security in here last night
Jun 29 23:46:57 <Noahbody> flaws
Jun 29 23:47:14 <A2NY> everything has flaws, it was made by humans xD
Jun 29 23:47:20 <Noahbody> true
Jun 29 23:47:57 <Noahbody> my wife keeps reminding me of my flaws
Jun 29 23:48:16 <A2NY> haha
Jun 29 23:48:31 <A2NY> how do you remove services ?
Jun 29 23:48:32 <Noahbody> i am sure any one with a wife or gf has the same problem
Jun 29 23:49:04 <no1leftypitcher> anybody? lol
Jun 29 23:49:13 <A2NY> what are you looking to do ?
Jun 29 23:49:22 <bclancy> monkeyxplosion:  did you check that you got the file downloaded from step 3 (scroll back up to my last message)?
Jun 29 23:49:23 <monkeyxplosion> bclancy: it doesn't look like have that package
Jun 29 23:49:39 <bclancy> OK, repeat step 3 then
Jun 29 23:50:02 <bclancy> make sure to cd to /tmp first
Jun 29 23:50:06 <no1leftypitcher> i want to run a script to run once at shutdown
Jun 29 23:50:09 <xandrake> Evening, Gents.
Jun 29 23:50:20 <tharris-> Evening
Jun 29 23:50:21 <no1leftypitcher> ...to be more specific the GPS tracker script
Jun 29 23:50:46 <no1leftypitcher> i just need pointed in the right direction
Jun 29 23:52:39 <rwhitby> giovani: welcome to the channel, I'm sorry I missed the "robust discussion" a couple of hours ago :-)
Jun 29 23:52:50 <giovani> rwhitby: haha
Jun 29 23:52:56 <giovani> rwhitby: I appreciate the welcome :)
Jun 29 23:52:58 <bclancy> no1leftypitcher:  The init scripts supposely use a System V init replacement called "upstart".  That said, there still seem to be system V init scripts in /etc/rc.d and /etc/inid.d
Jun 29 23:53:09 <tharris-> well it was a good one =p
Jun 29 23:53:31 <bclancy> the real scripts are in init. an symlinks to them are in the various subdirs of rc.2
Jun 29 23:53:35 <monkeyxplosion> bclancy: looks like it worked
Jun 29 23:53:45 <monkeyxplosion> i could have sworn it downloaded the first time
Jun 29 23:53:55 <monkeyxplosion> thanks for the assist
Jun 29 23:54:02 <no1leftypitcher> very cool, thanks guys
Jun 29 23:54:07 <bclancy> the K* scripts are typically run at shutown (but I believe they may get run at startup too)
Jun 29 23:54:25 <rwhitby> I'm hoping that future "robust discussions" can be a bit more mindful of the channel policy to respect other participants, but these things tend to smooth out over time as the community sets it's standards for behaviour in channel.
Jun 29 23:54:46 <no1leftypitcher> that's ok i can make that work.
Jun 29 23:55:14 <bclancy> init has various run levels, 6 is reboot, 3 is network, 2 is multi user, 1 is single user - but test all your changes because they might not work in the traitional way (especially with upstart_
Jun 29 23:55:28 <destinal> loot: welcome and congrats on the new toy.
Jun 29 23:55:43 <no1leftypitcher> ok ill look into that
Jun 29 23:55:47 <jdub> bclancy: upstart.ubuntu.com
Jun 29 23:55:48 <no1leftypitcher> thanks again bclancy
Jun 29 23:55:52 <bclancy> google upstart for more advice on where old style init scripts are still allowed.
Jun 29 23:55:54 <bclancy> over
Jun 29 23:56:34 <tharris-> downloading and installing new patch finally, i tried my vulnerability and it worked i almost fell then realized the new webos doctor didnt upgrade me =p
Jun 29 23:56:37 <loot> destinal: thanks :)
Jun 29 23:57:05 <A2NY> so we can confirm the latest web doc is not 1.0.4 ?
Jun 29 23:57:09 <rwhitby> tharris-: did you do some mods before the OTA update to diagnose what broke?
Jun 29 23:57:13 <bclancy> rwhitby:  I wishe I could have woken you up - I did not want to inflame things more (actually I did, but I kept quiet)
Jun 29 23:57:46 <rwhitby> bclancy: I think the other ops handled things well.
Jun 29 23:58:04 <tharris-> i had done a bunch so im not sure, though at least i know what i did
Jun 29 23:58:04 <bclancy> yep
Jun 29 23:58:09 <destinal> loot: have you played any with qemu?  we still haven't gotten it booting the kernel / initrd that's on the pre, I've started playing with it but have no experience on it
Jun 29 23:58:41 <destinal> loot: it seems like it would be very handy for experimental kernel hacking / debugging if we could get it to work
Jun 29 23:58:44 <rwhitby> bclancy: we've found the QUIET command to chanserv, which will help in the future when people start disrepecting others.
Jun 29 23:58:49 <loot> hmm
Jun 29 23:59:00 <loot> yes i know qemu fairly well but from what im reading
Jun 29 23:59:06 <loot> theres a non-standard boot loader
Jun 29 23:59:12 <loot> so depending on how it works
Jun 29 23:59:19 <loot> you might not be able to just dd the super block
Jun 29 23:59:41 <bpadalino> oh, boot talk ..
Jun 29 23:59:43 <bpadalino> i should listen
Jun 29 23:59:50 <loot> ill take a stab at it but im just now reading up on all of this so you'll have to bare with me a little so i can get up to speed
Jun 30 00:00:13 <bclancy> jdub:  thx - cheking it out now
Jun 30 00:00:20 <gaffo_> bpadalino, did you hear me talking to destinal earlier? he's re-imaged his pre a few times and would be willing to grab a dump.
Jun 30 00:00:30 <rwhitby> loot: let us know how we can help - my policy is that people who are going to contribute get to the head of the queue when asking questions ...
Jun 30 00:00:42 <bpadalino> gaffo, indeed i did - we're finding a nice logger to use for windows ..
Jun 30 00:00:47 <loot> excellent policy
Jun 30 00:00:48 <loot> hehe
Jun 30 00:01:39 <rwhitby> (including those that contribute by editing the wiki for clarity, or helping new users, ...)
Jun 30 00:01:40 <loot> once im comfortable with compiling for the pre im going to attempt to write a terminal emulator with basic ssh support
Jun 30 00:01:55 <gaffo_> bpadalino, sweet. I just switched my desktop to windows 7 at home so I may be albe to do more
Jun 30 00:02:01 <rwhitby> loot: are you aware of optware?
Jun 30 00:02:11 <loot> hmm no
Jun 30 00:02:14 <loot> something worth checking out?
Jun 30 00:02:34 <bpadalino> ah cool
Jun 30 00:02:45 <bpadalino> loot, a terminal emulator ?
Jun 30 00:02:50 <rwhitby> loot: I founded and run nslu2-linux.org, see http://www.nslu2-linux.org/presentation.pdf
Jun 30 00:02:57 <loot> ahhh
Jun 30 00:03:05 <loot> possibly port it over then
Jun 30 00:03:10 <loot> no sense re-inventing the wheel
Jun 30 00:03:27 <rwhitby> loot: http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/unstable/
Jun 30 00:03:32 * gaffo_ brb rebooting
Jun 30 00:03:59 <rwhitby> loot: http://trac.nslu2-linux.org/optware/browser/trunk/platforms/toolchain-cs08q1armel.mk is the toolchain we are using
Jun 30 00:04:31 <loot> lol your site doesnt like wget i take it
Jun 30 00:04:45 <loot> tried to wget the pdf and it didnt like that
Jun 30 00:04:50 <loot>       Don't do that okay?  Trying to download the entire website is not welcome.
Jun 30 00:04:59 <destinal> hehe
Jun 30 00:05:12 <rwhitby> hmm - ah, right.  that's cause the ipkgs get redirected to other mirrors.
Jun 30 00:05:19 <rwhitby> loot: I'll look at how we can fix that.
Jun 30 00:05:43 <destinal> for now just wget -U blah http://www.nslu2-linux.org/presentation.pdf
Jun 30 00:05:51 <loot> no worries in the mean time i just went to the site with firefox
Jun 30 00:05:56 <loot> ah that works also
Jun 30 00:06:00 <destinal> user-agent :)
Jun 30 00:06:24 <svx> good evening all
Jun 30 00:06:44 <svx> anyone here that might be able to help me through a little ssh issue i am having?
Jun 30 00:07:16 <svx> i completed all of the predev steps, but when i try to connect through putty to test ssh it fails to connect
Jun 30 00:07:59 <Exstatica> hey guys :)
Jun 30 00:08:11 <svx> hey, pretty quiet in here
Jun 30 00:08:30 <destinal> svx: hmm.  it's hard to say what step you missed, but I'm pretty sure you missed one
Jun 30 00:09:06 <destinal> or you're not using putty x.y.z.a 222
Jun 30 00:09:11 <svx> openssh is started
Jun 30 00:09:14 <destinal> (nonstandard port)
Jun 30 00:09:21 <svx> yeah
Jun 30 00:09:44 <svx> using ip and port
Jun 30 00:10:36 <svx> this command:  ssh -p 222 PRE-USERNAME@YOUR-PRE-IP-ADDR
Jun 30 00:11:11 <destinal> well for putty it's "putty your-ip 222"
Jun 30 00:11:31 <svx> ip of the phone right...in this case either wifi or evdo
Jun 30 00:11:34 <destinal> right
Jun 30 00:11:51 <svx> yep...just sits there atr a black screena nd says it cannot connect
Jun 30 00:12:14 <svx> although i am logged in in another putty window as myuser=myname
Jun 30 00:12:58 <rwhitby> svx: are you attempting to connect over wifi?
Jun 30 00:13:05 <svx> evdo
Jun 30 00:13:17 <rwhitby> did you adjust the iptables in the upstart script?
Jun 30 00:13:26 <svx> hmm
Jun 30 00:13:32 <rwhitby> we exclude evdo by default
Jun 30 00:13:59 <svx> interesting
Jun 30 00:14:03 <tharris-> well 1.0.4 works fine finally
Jun 30 00:14:08 <rwhitby> svx: can you point to which wiki page you're following, so we can make sure that it is clear?
Jun 30 00:14:19 <svx> http://predev.wikidot.com/openssh-install
Jun 30 00:14:39 <rwhitby> yep, step 4 is pretty clear on that page.
Jun 30 00:14:56 <destinal> tharris-: congratulations, welcome back to the land of functional pre handsets :)
Jun 30 00:15:12 <svx> yeah, i tries to read the script
Jun 30 00:15:14 <tharris-> yeah i dont recommend telling palm about vulns, they get you back =p
Jun 30 00:15:17 <svx> tried
Jun 30 00:15:20 <destinal> tharris-: lol
Jun 30 00:15:36 <Saiks> Hi all... I am having trouble loading the boot theme. two for boot and two for shutting off.
Jun 30 00:15:43 <rwhitby> tharris-: on that note, I'm personally very pleased that Palm took your report seriously and fixed it.
Jun 30 00:15:55 <tharris-> rwhitby: me too =p
Jun 30 00:15:56 <PullingJ_> what file contains the links you've done in contacts? and can you just drop it inplace after you restore?
Jun 30 00:15:59 <svx> dumb q...how do i read the script?...i tried to vi
Jun 30 00:16:21 <Saiks> The boot down file shows up for both boot up and shutting down
Jun 30 00:16:44 <tharris-> rwhitby: thats where all my tiem has been =p
Jun 30 00:17:01 <Saiks> any suggestion
Jun 30 00:17:07 <destinal> Saiks: hmm, I would, but I've never tried tweaking boot logos
Jun 30 00:17:27 <tharris-> i can personnally confirm they fixed by first bug
Jun 30 00:17:37 <rwhitby> tharris-: it will be interesting to see Palm'
Jun 30 00:17:48 <Saiks> http://predev.wikidot.com/boot-themes
Jun 30 00:17:55 <rwhitby> tharris-: it will be interesting to see Palm's stance on disclosure.
Jun 30 00:17:57 <svx> rwhitby...how do i read the script...sorry for my ignorance
Jun 30 00:18:06 <Noahbody> can you use msn messaging on the pre?
Jun 30 00:18:08 <tharris-> they were absolutely great with me
Jun 30 00:18:11 <rwhitby> svx: you'll need to edit it with vi
Jun 30 00:18:18 <rwhitby> svx: see http://predev.wikidot.com/basic-linux-use
Jun 30 00:18:37 <svx> yep, already tried that...btw, putty does not like ctrl+q
Jun 30 00:18:51 <Noahbody> i use secure CRT
Jun 30 00:18:53 <svx> just out of curiousity...how to exit?
Jun 30 00:18:53 <Saiks> I feel like there is something missing, bcos it does show anything about boot up script
Jun 30 00:18:55 <Noahbody> much better
Jun 30 00:19:04 <sugardave> exit a shell?  Ctrl-D
Jun 30 00:19:12 <Noahbody> or type exit
Jun 30 00:19:12 <svx> vi using putty
Jun 30 00:19:20 <svx> hmm, would not
Jun 30 00:19:24 <svx> was weird
Jun 30 00:19:24 <sugardave> [esc]:q![enter]
Jun 30 00:19:29 <PullingJ_> you don't have to use vi, install nano and have a "normal" text editor
Jun 30 00:19:44 <Noahbody> i tried that it didnt work
Jun 30 00:19:47 <meshuga> i couldnt get nano to save, it would just beep at me
Jun 30 00:19:48 <sugardave> q! does not save your file
Jun 30 00:19:50 <meshuga> i started using joe.
Jun 30 00:19:52 <meshuga> joe works great
Jun 30 00:19:55 <sugardave> if you want to save:
Jun 30 00:19:55 <Noahbody> ipkg install nano doenst work
Jun 30 00:20:00 <sugardave> [esc]:wq[enter]
Jun 30 00:20:01 <meshuga> vi i have cursor issues w/
Jun 30 00:20:06 <meshuga> Noahbody: you need to install optware feeds
Jun 30 00:20:12 <svx> yeah, it is quirky for me too
Jun 30 00:20:14 <Noahbody> how
Jun 30 00:20:21 <PullingJ_> visudo recognizes the enviroment variable editor, so if you export EDITOR=/opt/bin/nano you should be all set
Jun 30 00:20:24 <rwhitby> and use "ipkg-opt" - *never* use ipkg
Jun 30 00:20:32 <Noahbody> ok
Jun 30 00:20:36 <PullingJ_> also recommend nano -w so it doesn't wrap long lines on you
Jun 30 00:22:49 <destinal> PullingJ_: totally agree, nothing like a wrapped line in a passwd file for fun
Jun 30 00:23:08 <PullingJ_> i have pico aliased to pico -w on my main shell box
Jun 30 00:23:11 <destinal> PullingJ_: part of why I left for vi, no unintended changes there
Jun 30 00:23:20 <monkeyxplosion> I'm stuck on http://predev.wikidot.com/next-steps-after-rooting while trying "Enable a method for your new unprivileged user account to gain root privileges."
Jun 30 00:23:23 <monkeyxplosion> little help?
Jun 30 00:23:36 <Noahbody> nano is installing now :)
Jun 30 00:23:40 <destinal> monkeyxplosion: ipkg-opt install sudo
Jun 30 00:23:47 <nebula> One morning, a man calls his boss to tell him he'll be out sick. The boss  presses for specifics, and the man says, "Sir, I have rectal glaucoma." "And what does  that mean?" asks the boss. The man replies, "I just can't see my ass coming in  to work today."
Jun 30 00:23:51 <PullingJ_> destinal: i know, vi just has a huge learning curve on top of the huge learning curve of linux and shell commands
Jun 30 00:24:01 <bclancy> Saiks:  How familiar are you with Linux?
Jun 30 00:24:27 <PullingJ_> Noahbody: make sure you use nano -w when editing files with long lines.  just always use nano -w
Jun 30 00:24:41 <Noahbody> ok PullingJ_
Jun 30 00:25:03 <Noahbody> bitchx is installed now too
Jun 30 00:25:07 <monkeyxplosion> destinal: when i run that command, i get "Nothing to be done. An error occured, return value: 4. Collected errors: Cannot find package sudo"
Jun 30 00:25:25 <destinal> ah, you may need first to do:  ipkg-opt update
Jun 30 00:25:48 <monkeyxplosion> i reran it once, i can try again.  is there a particular directory i should run it from?
Jun 30 00:26:21 <destinal> hmm, did you make sure that you got the configuration file correct, there are a few lines that have you build it with echo
Jun 30 00:26:27 <tharris-> thanks
Jun 30 00:26:37 <tharris->  =)
Jun 30 00:28:11 <SirWill_> so is it my imagination, or did 1.0.4 write over the palm logo's?  My pretty blue one disapeared
Jun 30 00:28:20 <tharris-> it does
Jun 30 00:28:42 <svx> last dumb q....how do i restart ssh...
Jun 30 00:28:44 <SirWill_> snap why did they have to go and do that
Jun 30 00:28:56 <svx> i modified the script and want to restart
Jun 30 00:30:47 <svx> anyone?
Jun 30 00:31:33 <bclancy> SirWill:  Not your imagination - I haven't bothered to debug - the script changes are still there.  You probably just have to run the rm and symlink steps again.
Jun 30 00:32:41 <bclancy> SirWill:  I'll redo that step now and see what happens after reboot
Jun 30 00:34:17 <svx> i issue killall sshd
Jun 30 00:34:52 <svx> and then start testing initctl start optware-openssh and it claims job not changed
Jun 30 00:35:04 <bclancy> SirWill:  Just redoing step 4 seems to do the trick - verified
Jun 30 00:35:14 <monkeyxplosion> destinal: i must have messed something up when i ran the echo commands
Jun 30 00:35:17 <bclancy> (with a reboot test)
Jun 30 00:35:40 <monkeyxplosion> sudo installed
Jun 30 00:35:44 <monkeyxplosion> thanks for the help
Jun 30 00:36:01 <destinal> you're welcome
Jun 30 00:36:42 <rwhitby> svx: initctl stop optware-openssh ; initctl start optware-openssh
Jun 30 00:37:14 <svx> doh....i was trying restart...
Jun 30 00:38:08 <rwhitby> yeah, for some strange reason it doesn't have a restart command.
Jun 30 00:38:23 <svx> worked
Jun 30 00:38:27 <svx> thanks for all the help
Jun 30 00:38:29 <svx> im in
Jun 30 00:42:49 <destinal> quick question:  how much interest is there in this community regarding modifying / extending the bluetooth stack on the pre?
Jun 30 00:43:09 <destinal> like, does anyone care about wiimotes, bluetooth keyboards, joysticks, etc?
Jun 30 00:43:10 <svx> im in on that
Jun 30 00:43:16 <svx> me
Jun 30 00:43:40 <destinal> ok, it's another thing I'm interested in but know almost nothing about.  I really seem to be picking them for that ;)
Jun 30 00:44:28 <rwhitby> destinal: I use a lot of bluetooth on my Treo650.  I've set up BT access points on NSLU2, NAS100d, and Fonera2 running openwrt firmware.
Jun 30 00:44:32 <bclancy> How should we document redoing hacks after installing 1.04?  Should we make a subsection on each hack page for what needs to be redone?  Do we want to have some sort of TOC page for listing any hacks that need to be partially or completely redone?  (In my case, for JackieRipper's menu themes (with different down and up images), this was just redoing step 4 of the "taking it to the next...
Jun 30 00:44:34 <bclancy> ...level" section of the http://predev.wikidot.com/boot-themes page.  Are there other pages we need to update?
Jun 30 00:44:54 <rwhitby> bclancy: we should work on getting the hacks into .patch files in the repo.
Jun 30 00:45:09 <SirWill_> bclancy, I had only done the simple first section.  I had to re-copy the file over from my /media partition.
Jun 30 00:45:11 <rwhitby> then we just refresh the patch file.
Jun 30 00:45:33 <bclancy> SirWill_: thx
Jun 30 00:46:31 <svx> rwhitby, i assume the ip changes with each restart
Jun 30 00:46:39 <SirWill_> How does one apply a patch from a patch file anyhow?  not being very familiar with linux...
Jun 30 00:46:53 <jdub> SirWill_: 'patch'
Jun 30 00:47:07 <rwhitby> svx: dunno, I'm .au and Sprint doesn't have any towers here :-_)
Jun 30 00:47:13 <jdub> SirWill_: (and 'diff' is how you create a patch/diff file)
Jun 30 00:47:17 <bclancy> OK, anyone already working on this?  (I can probably learn by trying to make a patch for JackieRipper's stuff
Jun 30 00:47:23 <svx> ahh..i confirmed it did
Jun 30 00:47:45 <rwhitby> bclancy: http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications/trees/master
Jun 30 00:47:49 <bclancy> rwhitby suggested using quilt to manage all the patches
Jun 30 00:47:57 <destinal> rwhitby: any advantage to bt networking rather than wifi?
Jun 30 00:48:31 <rwhitby> destinal: none that I know of.  Treo650 doesn't have wifi, and GPRS charges are excessive in .au, so it was out of necessity.
Jun 30 00:48:57 <rwhitby> bclancy: yes, I checked in some updates to quilt in optware to make it work better on the Pre.
Jun 30 00:49:42 <destinal> rwhitby: I'm most interested in HUD type devices at the moment but I get the feeling I'd need to install bluez and that two bluetooth stacks won't work simultaneously so that may break all the out of the box bt suppoty
Jun 30 00:49:43 <destinal> support
Jun 30 00:50:07 <rwhitby> anyone who wants to help with creating patches, please "ipkg-opt install quilt git"
Jun 30 00:50:23 <loot-> ok before i disappear back into the abyss of reading documentation and what not... i would just like to say:
Jun 30 00:50:27 <loot-> i freaking love this phone.
Jun 30 00:50:33 <loot-> that is all ;)
Jun 30 00:50:35 <destinal> awesome, isn't it? :)
Jun 30 00:51:01 <loot-> im glad palm decided to go linux finally
Jun 30 00:51:11 <loot-> and i have to credit them with doing an excellent job so far
Jun 30 00:51:45 <rwhitby> the only thing i think they could have done better is the one userid per application thing that android does.
Jun 30 00:51:56 <rwhitby> running apps as root at the moment is a concern.
Jun 30 00:51:56 <loot-> yea
Jun 30 00:52:04 <loot-> major concern for me
Jun 30 00:52:11 <loot-> but they left plenty of space on the device
Jun 30 00:52:17 <loot-> for me to try some extreme security stuff
Jun 30 00:52:38 <loot-> like making chroots for the apps with a hardened kernel... maybe even doing RBAC policy
Jun 30 00:54:28 <loot-> only thing is running an app as root still basically invites you into ring 0
Jun 30 00:54:41 <loot-> but we'll see how flexible the app framework is once i start messing with it
Jun 30 00:55:10 <loot-> might be able to force apps to run less privileged
Jun 30 00:58:36 <loot-> brb switching to kubrick
Jun 30 00:59:04 <bclancy> loot:  nice to see you here - looking forward to these sorts of improvements!
Jun 30 01:00:36 <monkeyxplosion> ok, problem the third
Jun 30 01:01:17 <monkeyxplosion> i managed to screw up the password for my unprivliged user account
Jun 30 01:01:43 <monkeyxplosion> so that when i installed openssh and tried to make the connection, it won't accept my password
Jun 30 01:01:48 <monkeyxplosion> how can i change that password
Jun 30 01:01:55 <monkeyxplosion> ?
Jun 30 01:02:45 <bclancy> rwhitby:  Is there a cookbook anywhere on how to build patches (ie:  which diff command to run, etc.)?  I guess I could use add-delete-pages-in-the-launcher.patch as a model if there is not a cookbook.
Jun 30 01:03:14 <destinal> loot-: it's refreshing that a major vendor has built a platform like this and not tried to keep us (the owners of said devices) out of it
Jun 30 01:04:55 <jdub> destinal: and a platform so... not at all bonkers.
Jun 30 01:04:56 <bclancy> monkeyxplosion:  I'd look at the python proxy script as a starting point and a way to get logged back in.  Maybe others can give you more specific instructions.
Jun 30 01:05:20 <Kaerey> quick off topic question my free mIRC trial is expiring, anyone have a suggestion for a good irc client for windows?
Jun 30 01:05:30 <Saiks> Can anyone help me with boot theme?
Jun 30 01:05:40 <destinal> Kaerey: Chatzilla for firefox    or   Pidgin
Jun 30 01:05:51 <Kaerey> I don't use firefox.
Jun 30 01:05:56 <Kaerey> I'll check pidgin
Jun 30 01:06:08 <Saiks> i can't get the boot and shut down theme to work
Jun 30 01:06:51 <bclancy> Saiks:  are you stuck, if so, are you stuck using the instructions or after installing 1.04, or something else>  Did you install the up/down images or just replace the existing ones?
Jun 30 01:06:54 <jdub> Kaerey: try xchat for something relatively mirc-like (and open source)
Jun 30 01:07:13 <monkeyxplosion> i think i should be able to go back and create a new user account and set that up with a password (that i don't eff up) and set it up to use sudo, but i'd like to keep the username if possible
Jun 30 01:07:28 <monkeyxplosion> i'll take a look at the python proxy script and see what's up
Jun 30 01:08:07 <bclancy> I've been using chatzilla (in firefox) - I can't compare it with anything else since I don't have much IRC experience.  I think pidgin might do IRC, that might be good.
Jun 30 01:08:07 <Saiks> I installed the up and down images but the down images shows up for both boot up and shut down
Jun 30 01:08:55 <Saiks> sorry...
Jun 30 01:09:08 <Saiks> How do you reply to some one
Jun 30 01:09:32 <monkeyxplosion> pidgin does, i couldn't figure it out too (not a big irc user)
Jun 30 01:09:39 <monkeyxplosion> i just got bersirc
Jun 30 01:09:47 <monkeyxplosion> seems to be working fine
Jun 30 01:10:08 <Kaerey> ohh xchat looks fun
Jun 30 01:10:28 <rwhitby`> Kaerey: get it from silverex
Jun 30 01:10:55 <rwhitby`> Kaerey: http://www.silverex.org/download/ is what I use.
Jun 30 01:11:09 <bclancy> Saiks:  how comfortable are you with Linux commands (just so I know how much detail to write in any questions that I ask you)?
Jun 30 01:12:22 <Kaerey> rwhitby thanks
Jun 30 01:12:27 <ultraBlack> Does anyone know why after logging in as root by doing 'sudo su -' and then 'ls' gives a Segmentation fault after following update-1-0-4?
Jun 30 01:12:37 <Saiks> I'm a newbie but made progress the pass couple of days
Jun 30 01:12:44 <ultraBlack> Does anyone know why after logging in as root by doing 'sudo su -' and then 'ls' gives a Segmentation fault after following predev.wikidot.com/ls-in-color?
Jun 30 01:12:46 <Kaerey> sudo su - isn't that the same thing?
Jun 30 01:12:47 <ultraBlack> Sorry bad copy-paste
Jun 30 01:13:29 <bclancy> OK
Jun 30 01:13:31 <ultraBlack> Kaerey_: How do you login as root?
Jun 30 01:13:43 <Kaerey_> sudo -i or su -
Jun 30 01:13:48 <rwhitby`> ultraBlack: what does /opt/bin/ls do?
Jun 30 01:14:02 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: nothing
Jun 30 01:14:13 <rwhitby`> ultraBlack: does it segfault?
Jun 30 01:14:20 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: no, nothing
Jun 30 01:14:33 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: whether i login with sudo su - or sudo -i
Jun 30 01:14:50 <rwhitby`> hmm - that http://predev.wikidot.com/ls-in-color page should have the path stuff removed, since ipkg-opt installation adds the path stuff to /etc/profile.d where it won't be overwritten by OTA updates ...
Jun 30 01:14:59 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: wait i had to change directory
Jun 30 01:15:41 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: /opt/bin/ls works whereas ls does not actually
Jun 30 01:15:51 <Kaerey-> blah this is why I got a new laptop... this one's wireless adpater likes to play gmaes
Jun 30 01:15:53 <rwhitby`> http://predev.wikidot.com/ls-in-color should add the ls alias to either /home/root/.profile or a new file in /etc/profile.d/
Jun 30 01:16:49 <rwhitby> ultraBlack: what does "/opt/bin/ls --color" do?  (other than spell colour incorrectly ;-)
Jun 30 01:17:12 <Kaerey> wts logic laptop that over heats and disconnects from wireless signal
Jun 30 01:17:15 <bclancy> Saiks:  I sent you a message in a private tab (not sure what they call this on IRC).  Can you compare your ls command to mine?
Jun 30 01:17:24 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: segfault
Jun 30 01:17:35 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: but i just removed the aliax
Jun 30 01:17:37 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: but i just removed the alias
Jun 30 01:18:21 <pullingj> Kaerey: i know i'm late, recommend xchat for windows.  or BitchX on a unix shell
Jun 30 01:18:29 <rwhitby> ultraBlack: ipkg-opt update ; ipkg-opt upgrade busybox
Jun 30 01:18:39 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: it segfaults even with the alias at the end of /etc/profile
Jun 30 01:18:44 <Kaerey> thanks pullingj I'm on xchat now
Jun 30 01:19:01 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: done
Jun 30 01:19:41 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: It still segfaults as root
Jun 30 01:19:59 <rwhitby> eno: ^^
Jun 30 01:20:00 <ultraBlack> what's next :\
Jun 30 01:20:08 <rwhitby> ultraBlack: looks like a bug in busybox then
Jun 30 01:20:13 <rwhitby> remove the alias :-)
Jun 30 01:20:18 <ultraBlack> ok
Jun 30 01:20:53 <ultraBlack> i did
Jun 30 01:21:03 <rwhitby> ultraBlack: ipkg-opt install strace
Jun 30 01:21:10 <rwhitby> ultraBlack: strace /opt/bin/ls --color
Jun 30 01:21:16 <rwhitby> pastebin the result for eno to look at
Jun 30 01:22:10 <pullingj> rwhitby: what's the advantage of silverx over vanilla xchat?
Jun 30 01:22:21 <ultraBlack> http://pastebin.com/m37e89f40
Jun 30 01:24:01 <rwhitby> pullingj: windows build that doesn't charge you just for building open source on a windows box
Jun 30 01:24:12 <pullingj> rwhitby: ahh got it
Jun 30 01:25:05 <rwhitby> ultraBlack: thanks, that should be enough for eno to debug.
Jun 30 01:25:12 <eno> optware busybox is not very up-to-date
Jun 30 01:25:26 <eno> does coreutils ls work?
Jun 30 01:26:09 <rwhitby> ultraBlack: ipkg-opt remove busybox (make sure you type *ipkg-opt*, not ipkg)
Jun 30 01:26:16 <rwhitby> ultraBlack: ipkg-opt install coreutils
Jun 30 01:27:19 <Shadow00Caster> Anyone have any ideas as to why I keep getting ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '' when trying to root?  Running webos 1.0.4, vista 64 .. python 2.6.2 and nova 64 and 86 (tested both) return same error.  Comp sees the device just fine.
Jun 30 01:28:06 <paul__> The vista64 part?
Jun 30 01:28:07 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: Done
Jun 30 01:28:08 <paul__> :-D
Jun 30 01:28:27 <rwhitby> ultraBlack: does /opt/bin/ls --color work now?
Jun 30 01:28:33 <Shadow00Caster> don't you mean "the vista" part :-p
Jun 30 01:28:43 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: Yes
Jun 30 01:28:57 <paul__> suggestion: sudo ipkg-opt install coreutils
Jun 30 01:29:09 <paul__> pre doesn't have groups
Jun 30 01:29:41 <rwhitby> ultraBlack: please update that wiki page to use coreutils instead, and remove the path stuff (since it should be done already), and put the ls alias in /home/root/.profile or /etc/profile.d/optware-coreutils
Jun 30 01:30:10 <rwhitby> paul__: perhaps we should install that by default in the ipkg-opt instructions
Jun 30 01:30:24 <paul__> Yeah
Jun 30 01:30:36 <paul__> It's kinda of necessary linux utils
Jun 30 01:30:38 <rwhitby> eno: what do you think - any downside?
Jun 30 01:30:44 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: I will
Jun 30 01:30:55 <Orion_PK> does anyone know where I can get the source (app assistants & views) for the messaging app?
Jun 30 01:31:01 <Orion_PK> w/o rooting my phone
Jun 30 01:31:06 <paul__> I was trying to look for a native irc cli
Jun 30 01:31:12 <rwhitby> Orion_PK: unpack the doctor using 7zip
Jun 30 01:31:30 <paul__> But rooting is so helpful :-)
Jun 30 01:31:32 <rwhitby> you don't even need to click-through a license agreement then ...
Jun 30 01:31:33 <eno> rwhitby: none that i can think of, other than a little more space
Jun 30 01:31:50 <Orion_PK> is that on the svn?
Jun 30 01:32:02 <rwhitby> Orion_PK: you get the doctor directly from Palm
Jun 30 01:32:15 <rwhitby> we cannot redisribute it
Jun 30 01:32:38 <Orion_PK> ah
Jun 30 01:32:38 <rwhitby> link is on http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-doctor-versions
Jun 30 01:32:40 <eno> paul__: a couple of irc cli, irssi, weechat, bitchx
Jun 30 01:32:55 <Orion_PK> thanks
Jun 30 01:33:49 <Orion_PK> It'd be nice to have IRC in a webos app (without rooting), even if it has to run through a proxy server
Jun 30 01:34:12 <rwhitby> Orion_PK: I'm sure someone will port something.  Maybe ptpchat ...
Jun 30 01:34:14 <paul__> sudo chgrp {USERNAME} *, sudo chmod g+w * in /usr/palm/applications/com.domain.your.app, to set write privledges over ssh
Jun 30 01:34:29 <paul__> Why proxy?
Jun 30 01:34:45 <Orion_PK> unless you can access sockets
Jun 30 01:34:45 <Kaerey> man I hate this, my wife took my vista machine for the night to do some dreamweaver work, and I'm stuck on this piece of shit... At least it's not as bad as the machine I just put ubuntu on. almost got all the shit I need installed to start working on version 3 of the notification program.
Jun 30 01:34:54 <rwhitby> paul__: only use com.domain if you own domain.com
Jun 30 01:35:05 <paul__> Lol
Jun 30 01:35:21 <paul__> What is the "assumed" place.your.domain.here
Jun 30 01:35:40 <Orion_PK> paul, you know of a way to access sockets through webos?
Jun 30 01:35:41 <rwhitby> org.webosinternals.ircnick is available for anyone doing open source apps.
Jun 30 01:35:50 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: http://predev.wikidot.com/ls-in-color  ,, Good?
Jun 30 01:36:47 <rwhitby> ultraBlack: I tend to remove issues once they are solved, and turn them into rationales for why it is like it is now.
Jun 30 01:37:06 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: Good idea. :P
Jun 30 01:37:08 <djk> PreGame: did you have post that app for running commands?
Jun 30 01:37:17 <paul__> you can
Jun 30 01:37:22 <paul__> 't sudo
Jun 30 01:37:24 <paul__> :-(
Jun 30 01:37:31 <rwhitby> djk: you mean Commander?
Jun 30 01:37:31 <paul__> sudo echo "alias ls='/opt/bin/ls --color'" >>  /etc/profile.d/optware-coreutils
Jun 30 01:37:36 <djk> yes
Jun 30 01:38:09 <paul__> One liners are good for wikis :-)
Jun 30 01:38:25 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: Issue Rationale'd
Jun 30 01:38:40 <djk> rwhitby: yes commander
Jun 30 01:38:57 <rwhitby> djk: http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/188945-org-webosinternals-shell-org-webosinternals-commander.html
Jun 30 01:39:28 <rwhitby> paul__: will the >> be executed with evelated privs?
Jun 30 01:40:06 <rwhitby> (/etc/profile.d/ will not be writeable to normal user)
Jun 30 01:40:14 <SirWill_> Uh, I just discovered that the palm-install    script will install to a rooted pre via usb without being in developer mode.    If anybody is interested....
Jun 30 01:40:28 <rwhitby> SirWill: it should install to *any* pre.
Jun 30 01:40:44 <loot-> does anyone here have experience writing code to utilize the ARM cotex a8 and a9's trustzone opcodes?
Jun 30 01:40:45 <SirWill_> I thought I had read that it had to be in developer mode
Jun 30 01:40:56 <loot-> cortex*
Jun 30 01:41:17 <rwhitby> loot-: way above my head :-)
Jun 30 01:41:27 <monkeyxplosion> so i'm finally in to my pre over wifi via ssh
Jun 30 01:41:31 <rwhitby> (although I know what you're talking about)
Jun 30 01:41:35 <loot-> trustzones are a spiffy ARM cortex a8 and a9 feature
Jun 30 01:41:35 <monkeyxplosion> thanks all who assisted
Jun 30 01:41:45 <loot-> privilege seperation basically
Jun 30 01:42:01 <rwhitby> SirWill: maybe dev mode, but shouldn't need rooting
Jun 30 01:42:03 <loot-> used mostly for DRM but i have some ideas for running basic webos apps with it
Jun 30 01:42:13 <loot-> possibly writing a popen wrapper
Jun 30 01:42:14 <bpadalino> i thought you really needed the keys to be defined to use trustzone properly
Jun 30 01:42:15 <monkeyxplosion> i'm curious, is there a command that can restart the pre from the terminal rather than using the power button
Jun 30 01:42:35 <bpadalino> plus i thought the executables were supposed to be encrypted when using trustzone
Jun 30 01:42:44 <djk> rwhitby: thanks. I'm guessing the gui and your code can be installed via ssh since the email hack is plugged
Jun 30 01:42:45 <loot-> they can be
Jun 30 01:42:45 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: All done, works. Thanks
Jun 30 01:42:46 <loot-> dont have to be
Jun 30 01:42:56 <bpadalino> ah, interesting ..
Jun 30 01:43:04 <ultraBlack> rwhitby: Suppose I should have confirmed it did before I changed the wiki, but I had faith in you
Jun 30 01:43:06 <loot-> they use crypto
Jun 30 01:43:07 <loot-> for DRM
Jun 30 01:43:10 <rwhitby> djk: we never supported the email installation vulnerability, since we predicted that Palm would close it quickly.
Jun 30 01:43:11 <loot-> but i dont think its a requirement
Jun 30 01:43:30 <loot-> im looking for hardware ring seperation more than i am encrypting the contents of the zone
Jun 30 01:43:39 <rwhitby> ultraBlack: your faith is misplaced :-)
Jun 30 01:44:03 <ultraBlack> and eno
Jun 30 01:44:11 <ultraBlack> ;>
Jun 30 01:44:18 <rwhitby> ultraBlack: faith in eno is never misplaced :-)
Jun 30 01:44:26 <bpadalino> loot, the mmu doesn't give you the separation you want ?
Jun 30 01:44:34 <rwhitby> ultraBlack: he's a superhuman.
Jun 30 01:44:37 <loot-> im having difficulty finding an opcode manual
Jun 30 01:44:47 <bpadalino> the arm arm is where you want to be
Jun 30 01:44:56 <rwhitby> loot-: if you find a public one, I'm interested.
Jun 30 01:45:08 <loot-> bpadalino: well if i ran a whole app in a trustzone i could seperate it entirely from webos
Jun 30 01:45:19 <loot-> ring0 kernel would still run as normal
Jun 30 01:45:45 <bpadalino> the trustzone software still needs drivers to run  .. are those installed or gettable (eg, does the beagle board use it?)
Jun 30 01:45:50 <loot-> theres software
Jun 30 01:46:09 <loot-> but ARM cortex a8 has built in opcodes to do the work
Jun 30 01:46:14 <loot-> the software just uses it
Jun 30 01:46:28 <paul__> sudo echo "echo \"alias ls='/opt/bin/ls --color'\" >>  /home/root/.profile" > ~/ls-color && chmod +x ~/ls-color && chmod +x ~/ls-color
Jun 30 01:46:28 <bpadalino> The security supplement to the ARM Architecture Reference Manual can only be delivered to developers under a Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) that has to be arranged for each request.
Jun 30 01:46:36 <bpadalino> might be difficult ..
Jun 30 01:46:37 <loot-> oh crap :/
Jun 30 01:46:41 <loot-> fun
Jun 30 01:46:42 <rwhitby> bpadalino: yeah, that's what I thought.
Jun 30 01:46:42 <bpadalino> this is where i found that: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.faqs/kiwHMG8C6EO94X.html
Jun 30 01:47:02 <loot-> i might need to pull some strings then :(
Jun 30 01:47:16 <bpadalino> To request access to this document, send an email stating the reason for the request to support@arm.com.
Jun 30 01:47:20 <bpadalino> maybe you can convince them!
Jun 30 01:47:21 <bpadalino> :)
Jun 30 01:47:25 <loot-> either that or buy another palm pre so i can crack it open
Jun 30 01:47:26 <loot-> haha
Jun 30 01:47:41 <loot-> well
Jun 30 01:47:47 <loot-> im sure a TS clearance would help :P
Jun 30 01:47:56 <bpadalino> you're ts?
Jun 30 01:47:59 <rwhitby> loot-: let us know when you find the jtag port ...
Jun 30 01:48:02 <bpadalino> i've got to finish filling out my paperwork :(
Jun 30 01:48:55 <loot-> bpadalino: just dont lie about doing drugs :P
Jun 30 01:49:07 <loot-> if you did it... just admit it
Jun 30 01:49:10 <loot-> they dont really care
Jun 30 01:49:10 <loot-> hehe
Jun 30 01:49:18 <bpadalino> i just drank a lot in college, never really did drugs
Jun 30 01:50:16 <bpadalino> what do  you work on that you have a ts clearance ?
Jun 30 01:50:31 <rwhitby> (remember this channel is publicly logged)
Jun 30 01:50:36 <loot-> lol
Jun 30 01:50:36 <bpadalino> right
Jun 30 02:01:30 <pullingj> bah ts clearance a dime a dozen
Jun 30 02:01:42 <bpadalino> they give it to everyone
Jun 30 02:02:03 <JackieRipper> is there a serviceRequest to turn on the screen?
Jun 30 02:03:32 <pullingj> submarines lead to my clearance
Jun 30 02:05:01 <pullingj> and like loot said, it's pretty hard to get your clearance denied. don't be in debt, and don't lie on the app.  if friends of your references are going to say something, put it onyour app
Jun 30 02:10:39 <bpadalino> yeah i filled out the crazy 30 pages ...
Jun 30 02:10:53 <veeloc> ?
Jun 30 02:10:54 <bpadalino> i just need to get one piece of history right - some employment thing that i forgot about
Jun 30 02:10:57 <veeloc> just joined
Jun 30 02:11:00 <veeloc> what are we talking about
Jun 30 02:11:05 <pullingj> sf86
Jun 30 02:11:06 <bpadalino> sorry - it was off topic
Jun 30 02:11:12 <veeloc> o ok
Jun 30 02:11:14 <bpadalino> they do it online now
Jun 30 02:11:23 <pullingj> yeah, i just had to redo mine
Jun 30 02:11:32 <veeloc> ??\
Jun 30 02:12:20 <paul__> nager/rescan {}
Jun 30 02:12:20 <paul__> (process:12585): LunaService-CRITICAL **: Error in base.c:538
Jun 30 02:13:28 <veeloc> wow i need to be clued in, should i go read the wiki?
Jun 30 02:13:47 <bpadalino> veeloc, nah - the topic of top secret clearances came up ...
Jun 30 02:13:54 <bpadalino> it was a little discussion  - now it's done with
Jun 30 02:14:03 <bpadalino> but reading the wiki is always a good idea
Jun 30 02:14:09 <bpadalino> lots of good info gets posted every day
Jun 30 02:14:19 <pullingj> just not going to help you with form sf86...
Jun 30 02:14:35 <veeloc> bpadalino: ok well, will do i guess.
Jun 30 02:14:37 <bpadalino> :)
Jun 30 02:14:37 <pullingj> which is why we are done
Jun 30 02:15:31 <rwhitby> so, who's up for trying out quilt for managing patches to palm code?
Jun 30 02:15:54 <rwhitby> BTW, I just checked the doctor, and it's still the 1.0.3 file.
Jun 30 02:16:46 <paul__> is "luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {}"  supposed to return "** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, { "returnValue": true }
Jun 30 02:16:46 <paul__> "
Jun 30 02:16:59 <rwhitby> yep
Jun 30 02:17:09 <rwhitby> leave off the -n 1 if you don't want to see that
Jun 30 02:17:59 <paul__> app not showing up :-(
Jun 30 02:18:50 <paul__> The system is going down for reboot NOW!
Jun 30 02:18:51 <paul__> Control-Alt-Delete pressed
Jun 30 02:18:52 <zenmaster00> Maybe an offtopic question, but does anyone know how to modify the ringer's vibrate to not vibrate after the phone has been answered?
Jun 30 02:18:53 <paul__> Lol
Jun 30 02:19:01 <paul__> From the pre on reset
Jun 30 02:20:26 <zenmaster00> Is the last vibrate after answering some kind of bug?
Jun 30 02:21:41 <rwhitby> zenmaster00: dunno
Jun 30 02:21:48 <bclancy> rwhitby:  after manually walking someone through the process, I am
Jun 30 02:23:35 <NoahbodyPRE> had to look for it and finally found bitchx that i installed on my pre
Jun 30 02:23:35 <rwhitby> bclancy: I'll start writing up the procedure on a wiki page ...
Jun 30 02:34:18 <tharris-> i confirmed doctor earlier rwhitby
Jun 30 02:34:47 <tharris-> as in i agree =p
Jun 30 02:37:29 <Orion_PK> haha, at the bottom of the pre's message app's chatview-assistant.js file theres a great comment
Jun 30 02:37:36 <Orion_PK> "// Every time you call this, somewhere a kitten dies"
Jun 30 02:38:05 <Orion_PK> function revealBottomHack
Jun 30 02:38:14 <bpadalino> heh
Jun 30 02:39:27 <Technobabble> lol
Jun 30 02:39:42 <bclancy> Orion_PK:  that's too funny!
Jun 30 02:41:32 <SirWill_> rcwhitby If you want someone to test the patch with quilt who has NO clue what I would be doing, I'd be happy to help..
Jun 30 02:51:43 <paul__> does the webos apps work if I launch them locally. ie a mounted ssh?
Jun 30 02:58:13 <rwhitby> SirWill: thx for the offer, I'll write up the page first and then enlist your help to test it.
Jun 30 02:59:13 <SirWill_> Just let me know when your ready
Jun 30 02:59:53 <paul__> I got the apps to run in Safari 4
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 30 02:59:57 2009