**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 05 02:59:58 2009
Jul 05 03:04:51 <tmzt> so can somebody make a plugin that just dumps events on stderr?
Jul 05 03:09:52 <tmzt> raster: hey
Jul 05 03:10:03 <raster> pong
Jul 05 03:10:04 <raster> :)
Jul 05 03:11:04 <tmzt> ok, palm pre is omap3450 based device, shipping with a variant of oe using the upstart init program
Jul 05 03:11:27 <tmzt> the main webos environment is a program called lunasysmgr
Jul 05 03:11:56 <raster> and what is the
Jul 05 03:12:02 <raster> "environment" ?
Jul 05 03:13:32 <tharris-> linux?
Jul 05 03:14:11 <tmzt> webos programs are mostly html and javascript and use an ipc library from javascript to communicate with the system, access pim data, run system binaries, etc.
Jul 05 03:14:21 <summatusmentis> not really, not if we're talking about lunasysmgr, tharris-
Jul 05 03:14:40 <tmzt> the environemnet resembles a web browser based on webkit
Jul 05 03:14:54 <tmzt> it essentially mmaps the framebuffer
Jul 05 03:15:12 <tmzt> there is no X or other display manager
Jul 05 03:15:44 <tharris-> well the environment is linux using a proprietary interface using Luna
Jul 05 03:15:47 <tmzt> luna appears to do some kind of sychronization for rendering into the fb over ipc
Jul 05 03:16:13 <tmzt> and passes pointers or handles to the surfaces with pixmap data in unix shm
Jul 05 03:16:29 <tharris-> its a glue to pass data to handlers to do stuff =p
Jul 05 03:16:40 <tmzt> that's what were trying to figure out
Jul 05 03:17:18 <tharris-> from my work thats what id does =p
Jul 05 03:17:23 <tharris-> i*
Jul 05 03:17:27 <tharris-> it*
Jul 05 03:18:34 <mekius> Is it possible to buy one without going through sprint?
Jul 05 03:18:57 <mekius> I guess that wouldn't be possible as it's not GSM heh
Jul 05 03:20:49 <Sloloem> tmzt, is that why windows keeps failing to install the OMAP3430 driver?
Jul 05 03:21:19 <tmzt> we have patches to webkit/webcore from palm at opensource.palm.com
Jul 05 03:21:22 <tmzt> is what?
Jul 05 03:22:01 <Sloloem> Whenever I plug in my Pre windows tries to install OMAP3430 and fails at it.
Jul 05 03:22:18 <Sloloem> Well, it actually does that during eject or mode switch operations
Jul 05 03:22:37 <tmzt> yeah, thatqs the cpu
Jul 05 03:24:13 <Sloloem> So I was taking a look at the wish list item to show all day events in the monthview of the calendar.  It's been real fun.
Jul 05 03:26:04 <tmzt> haven't done any js stuff
Jul 05 03:26:22 <rwhitby> hey raster, welcome.
Jul 05 03:26:34 <tmzt> I really want to see native code running in luna
Jul 05 03:26:53 <tmzt> terminal, ssh, vnc, X, etc.
Jul 05 03:27:04 <raster> hmm
Jul 05 03:27:13 <raster> so u have multiple webkit enginews running
Jul 05 03:27:19 <raster> each with a "page" (app window)
Jul 05 03:27:28 <tmzt> card, yes
Jul 05 03:27:32 <tmzt> it seems so
Jul 05 03:27:42 <raster> they export data via shm to a central conpositor/ui engine (think of itas compositor+wm+xserver basically)
Jul 05 03:27:43 <tmzt> a ps -e f would be helpful
Jul 05 03:27:48 <rwhitby> raster: dunno whether there are multiple running, or just one with multiple cards
Jul 05 03:27:54 <mekius> well seems someone has ported an SDL port of DOOM to run on the pre heh
Jul 05 03:28:08 <tmzt> using framebuffer
Jul 05 03:28:11 <mekius> yeah
Jul 05 03:28:13 <tmzt> not composited
Jul 05 03:28:34 <raster> rwhitby: wits! yo
Jul 05 03:28:55 <raster> i'm more i8nterested the other way around
Jul 05 03:29:01 <raster> have somethnig that can show pre apps
Jul 05 03:29:05 <raster> ie pretend to be luna
Jul 05 03:29:17 <raster> it shouldnt be too hard - thats my guess
Jul 05 03:30:06 <raster> rwhitby: well 1 with multiple will be better on cache sharing
Jul 05 03:33:05 <mekius> raster: So replace luna so you can run native apps and webos apps side by side?
Jul 05 03:33:52 <raster> yup
Jul 05 03:33:58 <mekius> that would be the ultimate :)
Jul 05 03:34:06 <raster> eg an x app that simply pops up a window per luna "card"
Jul 05 03:34:33 <raster> and handles passing events back to the luna card holder - and hndles any messages sich as resizes etc.
Jul 05 03:37:17 <raster> that would open the door to native development AND palm pre wbeos-style together
Jul 05 03:37:23 <mekius> indeed
Jul 05 03:37:25 <raster> using standard known toolkits (gtk, qt, wfl, sdl)
Jul 05 03:37:40 <raster> all you need is a wm/compositor that matches up to the pre's existing ui
Jul 05 03:37:42 <mekius> I still can't believe they went with Sprint for the initial rollout in the US....
Jul 05 03:38:00 <mekius> Vz says they are getting it end of the year
Jul 05 03:38:49 <mekius> raster: Just have to be able to replicate luna's API for the webos apps :)
Jul 05 03:40:08 <mekius> raster: So are you going to buy one when it goes GSM?
Jul 05 03:40:24 <summatusmentis> mekius: really? Sprint has carried almost all of Palm's previous phones
Jul 05 03:40:25 <raster> thats my plan
Jul 05 03:40:28 <raster> but depends on other things
Jul 05 03:40:43 <raster> as yesterday i got an offer for fulltime with someone else
Jul 05 03:40:49 <Gompers> I'm on sprint because they had an exclusive on the 755p...
Jul 05 03:40:56 <raster> need to check out the details though before anything
Jul 05 03:41:48 <Xerran> true
Jul 05 03:41:53 <mekius> summatusmentis: Sprint sucks heh
Jul 05 03:42:09 <Xerran> Sprint is cheaper
Jul 05 03:42:10 <mekius> summatusmentis: Whether or not they have a relationship is beyond the point, they are hurting themselves here :/
Jul 05 03:42:16 <mekius> Xerran: For a reason...
Jul 05 03:42:27 <mekius> raster: oooh nice :)
Jul 05 03:42:33 <Xerran> I am better off with sprint than T-mobile
Jul 05 03:43:12 <mekius> Xerran: der
Jul 05 03:43:15 <Xerran> I have no complaints currently with my pre or sprint
Jul 05 03:43:18 <summatusmentis> mekius: Sprint really isn't that bad. Yes, Sprint is a small carrier compared to Verizon, but they also tend to be a lot more open
Jul 05 03:43:30 <summatusmentis> I've been on Sprint for a year and have had no issues
Jul 05 03:43:38 <Gompers> The biggest issue I had with Sprint when I first moved was picturemail vs. MMS
Jul 05 03:43:38 <mekius> Since they went CDMA only in the US they should have gone Vz who has a larger customer base and isn't known to have terrible customer service
Jul 05 03:43:51 <mekius> They aren't going to convince a whole lot of people to switch to Sprint just to get a Pre
Jul 05 03:44:06 <Gompers> Verizon has never had launch exclusives with Palm for some reason.
Jul 05 03:44:06 <raster> problem is - sprint is cdma
Jul 05 03:44:13 <raster> your phone wont go outside of the usa
Jul 05 03:44:13 <Xerran> Apple did that witht he iPhone
Jul 05 03:44:18 <SirWill> Sprint's customer service has come a long ways in the last couple years.
Jul 05 03:44:19 <raster> come to australia - and it wont work
Jul 05 03:44:21 <raster> or europe
Jul 05 03:44:24 <raster> or...
Jul 05 03:44:28 <mekius> raster: Sure :)
Jul 05 03:44:40 <raster> (it'll work in south korea!)
Jul 05 03:44:42 <Gompers> And maybe it's a good thing that Palm rolled it out on a carrier with a smaller customer base, so they could work the bugs out
Jul 05 03:44:44 <mekius> Thus why they are pretty much forced to do a GSM version elsewhere, I just hope it comes to the US too
Jul 05 03:44:47 <tmzt> this baseband is msm6800
Jul 05 03:44:55 <mekius> SirWill: Oh?
Jul 05 03:45:09 <summatusmentis> mekius: Sprints customer service is significantly better than it used to be, and their reputation is not really fair anymore
Jul 05 03:45:09 <tmzt> one seems to exist anyway, according to engadget
Jul 05 03:45:10 <mekius> SirWill: I still hear horror stories from their current customers, but maybe they just get a bad person heh
Jul 05 03:45:11 <Xerran> raster, are you gonna fill your pre full of Sheila's? :P
Jul 05 03:45:23 <raster> Xerran: HAHYAHAHAHAHA
Jul 05 03:46:19 <SirWill> There are bad experiences at every company when it comes to customer service.  I have interacted with them many times over the last 3 years.  3 years ago, not so good,  2 years ago better.   Recently no real issues.
Jul 05 03:47:02 <raster> tmzt: msm6 is pretty common
Jul 05 03:47:10 <rwhitby> hey raster, can you take a look at the webcore patch from palm, in the the graphics/palm dir can you tell us what toolkit the GS* API is based on?
Jul 05 03:47:14 <mekius> SirWill: Well that's good to hear
Jul 05 03:47:14 <raster> a bunch of samsung and htc phones have it for sure
Jul 05 03:47:27 <rwhitby> raster: http://opensource.palm.com/1.0.4/index.html
Jul 05 03:47:28 <Xerran> I can not wait until FLASH drops on WebOS
Jul 05 03:47:35 <mekius> SirWill: I know a lot of people I know that had NexTel jumped ship when they got bought out due to the customer service heh
Jul 05 03:47:41 <tmzt> yes, but this one is supposed to support gsm and cdma depending on sbi rf chips
Jul 05 03:47:51 <raster> rwhitby:  i'll take a look
Jul 05 03:48:29 <SirWill> mekus:  yeah, that was a few years ago.  Sprint has worked hard to improve stuff.
Jul 05 03:48:39 <tmzt> or fears they were droping iDEN
Jul 05 03:49:48 <SirWill> As it is now, Nextel phones,   voice is going cdma, push to talk and data is iDEN.   Data on iDEN SUCKS
Jul 05 03:50:07 <tmzt> yes
Jul 05 03:50:15 <tmzt> data is iDEN? really?
Jul 05 03:50:50 <rwhitby> raster: http://palm.cdnetworks.net/opensource/1.0.4/webkit-patch.gz
Jul 05 03:51:04 <SirWill> Not sure if they transitioned the data yet.  When they first did the hybrid phones I know that was the case.
Jul 05 03:51:12 <raster> rwhitby:  already got it up
Jul 05 03:51:26 <SirWill> I was working for the company that handled ALL of the SMS Messaging for Nextel.
Jul 05 03:51:27 <tmzt> that makes no sense
Jul 05 03:51:54 <raster> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmrocher2001/3467727293/sizes/l/in/set-72157594557424169/?
Jul 05 03:52:02 <raster> Yes! We Pants!
Jul 05 03:52:04 <tmzt> the hybrid phone had to have two basebands, qualcomm and motorola I would think
Jul 05 03:52:12 <raster> No Pants! No LIFE!
Jul 05 03:52:59 <SirWill> I don't know how they engineered it.
Jul 05 03:53:24 <tmzt> maybe just sms bearer was iDEN
Jul 05 03:54:25 <tmzt> I remeber the later adds discussing fastest data network or something
Jul 05 03:55:13 <SirWill> on sprint.  not on nextel.  I don't they have ever claimed fast data.  Boost uses the nextel network, and their data sucks.  Unless they have changed recently.
Jul 05 03:55:30 <SirWill> Anyhow, not that much of a discussion for this channel I suppose.
Jul 05 03:55:53 <SirWill> raster: I guess it is a good thing I have pants then.
Jul 05 03:56:52 <raster> it is!
Jul 05 03:56:56 <raster> No Pants! No LIFE!
Jul 05 04:02:00 <rwhitby> SirWill: yeah, there should be a special FreeNode channel where people in the US can complain to each other about how bad their carriers are ... ;-)
Jul 05 04:02:33 <Sloloem> I win, all carriers suck, because my apartment is a deadzone for EVERYONE.
Jul 05 04:02:34 <summatusmentis> my friend just got a Pre, I can't keep hanging out with technophiles
Jul 05 04:03:17 <Sloloem> I wonder if I can install VoIP on the phone and have it recieve calls over wireless.
Jul 05 04:03:17 <rwhitby> raster: know anyone who is an npapi (browser plugin) expert?
Jul 05 04:03:21 <Cleanser> carrier argument discussions can go on for days... everyone has a different experience due to geographical locations and customer service. Should just leave it at that
Jul 05 04:03:41 <raster> rwhitby: holger
Jul 05 04:03:44 <rwhitby> raster: seems that all significant apps (those that have real backend C++ code) just exist as browser plugins.
Jul 05 04:03:52 <raster> well he's just in general ll over webkit
Jul 05 04:03:56 <raster> like stink on poo
Jul 05 04:04:09 <rwhitby> ah, yeah I forgot about zecke
Jul 05 04:04:27 <raster> :)
Jul 05 04:14:03 <bpadalino> ho hum
Jul 05 04:22:49 <bpadalino> pre won't work in south korea - i believe they use 450MHz :(
Jul 05 04:23:05 <raster> really?
Jul 05 04:23:09 <raster> my 3g phone does
Jul 05 04:23:56 <bpadalino> cdma ?
Jul 05 04:24:00 <tmzt> bpadalino: cdma? (not wcdma)
Jul 05 04:24:07 <tmzt> yeah
Jul 05 04:24:08 <bpadalino> yeah, i thought they used a 450MHz CDMA
Jul 05 04:24:14 <bpadalino> let met ask the google - they know all
Jul 05 04:25:19 <bpadalino> http://www.cdg.org/worldwide/index.asp?h_area=1&h_country=5&h_technology=99 - according to that, i am completely wrong!
Jul 05 04:26:20 <bpadalino> makes me a sad panda :(
Jul 05 04:27:39 <bpadalino> raster, do you visit south korea pretty often ?
Jul 05 04:35:41 <raster> bpadalino: been there 3 times in the last 9 months
Jul 05 04:35:52 <bpadalino> wow, that is quite a lot .. how do you like it there ?
Jul 05 04:35:59 <raster> hmmm
Jul 05 04:36:06 <raster> decent people - nice
Jul 05 04:36:12 <raster> civilized
Jul 05 04:36:23 <bpadalino> have you picked up much/any of the language ?
Jul 05 04:36:25 <raster> the writing drives me nuts
Jul 05 04:36:30 <raster> hnmm
Jul 05 04:36:32 <raster> a few words
Jul 05 04:36:41 <raster> my brain is in "to many languages" mode
Jul 05 04:36:47 <bpadalino> "beer" "please" "thank you" and "cheers" ?
Jul 05 04:36:49 <bpadalino> :)
Jul 05 04:36:53 <raster> yeah
Jul 05 04:36:55 <raster> i can do those
Jul 05 04:36:57 <raster> and a few more
Jul 05 04:37:02 <bpadalino> ooh, an over achiever
Jul 05 04:37:11 <raster> hahahahahah
Jul 05 04:37:22 <raster> well i alrteady speak jaopanese, english, grman, frenc, portuguese
Jul 05 04:37:27 <raster> 'err japanese
Jul 05 04:37:30 <raster> already
Jul 05 04:37:32 <bpadalino> that's a lot of languages
Jul 05 04:37:33 <raster> french
Jul 05 04:37:44 <bpadalino> all i remember from french is "je suis la jeune fille"
Jul 05 04:37:48 <raster> so my brain is complaining now its too much
Jul 05 04:37:52 <raster> hahahahah
Jul 05 04:38:04 <raster> mais vous et belle aussi?
Jul 05 04:38:06 <raster> err
Jul 05 04:38:07 <raster> etes
Jul 05 04:38:09 <raster> not et
Jul 05 04:38:51 <bpadalino> i'm a dude .. so that whole french line doesn't help me out :(
Jul 05 04:38:55 <raster> but overall korea isnt bad
Jul 05 04:39:14 <raster> well you said "i am the young girl"
Jul 05 04:39:28 <bpadalino> right - which just makes the whole phrase i remembered very ironic .. and confusing
Jul 05 04:39:30 <raster> so you're obviously confused :)
Jul 05 04:39:35 <bpadalino> :)
Jul 05 04:39:43 <raster> you remembered the wrong one
Jul 05 04:39:43 <raster> :)
Jul 05 04:39:50 <bpadalino> seems like it
Jul 05 04:39:55 <raster> why asking about korea?
Jul 05 04:39:59 <raster> wanting to move there?
Jul 05 04:40:11 <bpadalino> noooo - i like where i am really
Jul 05 04:40:16 <raster> aaah
Jul 05 04:40:17 <bpadalino> which is surprising since it gets a lot of cold and snow
Jul 05 04:40:29 <raster> hehehe
Jul 05 04:40:34 <raster> i like cold and snow myself
Jul 05 04:40:50 <bpadalino> i am in Rochester, NY - inbeween Buffalo and Syracuse (snow belt country)
Jul 05 04:41:16 <raster> [bpadalino] (n=bpadalin@cpe-74-74-236-134.rochester.res.rr.com): bpadalino
Jul 05 04:41:21 <bpadalino> that's me
Jul 05 04:41:21 <raster> already gave you away :)
Jul 05 04:41:55 <bpadalino> south korea has always interested me technology wise ..
Jul 05 04:42:09 <bpadalino> since they're somewhat small and able to roll out technologies relatively quickly..
Jul 05 04:42:16 <bpadalino> i know wimax and wibro are rolled out there ..
Jul 05 04:42:28 <raster> hmm
Jul 05 04:42:33 <raster> why south korea, not japan?
Jul 05 04:42:41 <raster> yeah
Jul 05 04:42:48 <raster> i have a wibro phone here...
Jul 05 04:42:57 <button> just realized that noise is fireworks
Jul 05 04:43:00 <bpadalino> i'm not sure - japan has some intense phones, that's for sure ..
Jul 05 04:43:03 <button> i wonder where they are
Jul 05 04:43:15 <ShadeS> I like chinese && japanese culture
Jul 05 04:43:22 <ShadeS> i know little to nothing about korean
Jul 05 04:43:24 <bpadalino> large displays, lots of technology
Jul 05 04:43:25 <raster> when it comes to phone tech - japan wins
Jul 05 04:43:27 <Sloloem> Hooray Rochester, I went to college there
Jul 05 04:43:30 <ShadeS> except i can identify it from the other two main asian groups
Jul 05 04:43:35 <raster> korea is a 2nd
Jul 05 04:43:39 <bpadalino> but i don't think they're on the bleeding edge of wireless infrastructure - are they ?
Jul 05 04:43:40 <rwhitby> raster: so did those PG* APIs ring any bells, or is it a from-scratch job?
Jul 05 04:43:53 <ShadeS> raster: well that's how it's been, japan designs it, then it's manufactured next door in china
Jul 05 04:43:57 <raster> rwhitby: i'm reading. it took too long manually - so i started searching for shm
Jul 05 04:44:14 <raster> silly - they use sysvshm
Jul 05 04:44:21 <raster> should use posix shm
Jul 05 04:45:01 <raster> bpadalino: i lived in japan for 3 years. i've now been to korea maybe 6 times. japan is ahead. definitely. of everyone
Jul 05 04:45:11 <raster> their phone ui's tho suck donkeys balls
Jul 05 04:45:23 <bpadalino> very interesting - i envy their phone banking, that's for sure
Jul 05 04:45:29 <rwhitby> raster: I haven't been able to find PPixmap.h ...
Jul 05 04:45:31 <raster> ShadeS: the top of the line stuff is still made in japan
Jul 05 04:45:31 <bpadalino> and being able to pay for things via their phone
Jul 05 04:45:34 <raster> but only the best
Jul 05 04:45:48 <raster> WebCore/platform/graphics/pg/PGIpcBuffer.cpp
Jul 05 04:45:51 <raster> look for that
Jul 05 04:46:01 <raster> that seems to be the start of the interfacing
Jul 05 04:46:24 <raster> bpadalino: indeed. and technology-wise, their phones have been and stil lare miles ahead
Jul 05 04:46:42 <raster> when iwas vitising japan maybe 2 years ago - their phon3s were 800x480 or 832x480 screens
Jul 05 04:46:42 <bpadalino> i envy their phone tech for sure
Jul 05 04:46:46 <raster> all of them tiny thin
Jul 05 04:47:03 <bpadalino> indeed - and i definitely read about their terrible UI's
Jul 05 04:47:12 <raster> 5mpixel cameras were on phones there 4-5 years ago
Jul 05 04:47:19 <rwhitby> raster: ah, so those buffer addresses are then passed to the low-level driver?
Jul 05 04:47:32 <raster> rwhitby: right now - don't know
Jul 05 04:47:46 <jauderho> yeah they cram too much in there. one article was saying how most of the features are not used.
Jul 05 04:47:47 <raster> but my guess is via some ipc they pass the ssysv shm segment id
Jul 05 04:47:55 <raster> and the other end attaches to it
Jul 05 04:48:05 <raster> personally i have come to prefer shm_open() + mmap()
Jul 05 04:48:10 <raster> its cleaner
Jul 05 04:48:16 <raster> and officially allows resizing of the segment
Jul 05 04:48:34 <raster> sysvshm doesnt (linux has extensions for it tho - but the other shm allows it from the get-go)
Jul 05 04:48:54 <raster> jauderho: doesnt make them bad phones
Jul 05 04:48:59 <raster> if you could only fix the software...
Jul 05 04:49:00 <jauderho> no
Jul 05 04:49:08 <jauderho> it doesnt
Jul 05 04:50:14 <bpadalino> raster, maybe palm would accept some patches from you
Jul 05 04:50:31 <raster> bpadalino: i doubt it
Jul 05 04:50:34 <bpadalino> :(
Jul 05 04:50:50 <raster> only one phone company accepts patches from me
Jul 05 04:50:58 <raster> but thats special
Jul 05 04:51:05 <raster> i'm not planning on fixing bugs
Jul 05 04:51:10 <raster> just making the code more flexible
Jul 05 04:51:13 <bpadalino> only making more ?
Jul 05 04:51:16 <bpadalino> ah
Jul 05 04:51:22 <raster> and then finally making it work outside their luna ui
Jul 05 04:51:34 <raster> i am not sure palm would like that
Jul 05 04:51:43 <raster> but then again - luna ont he desktop would be good
Jul 05 04:51:44 <bpadalino> so your interest is in making webos apps run outside of luna ?
Jul 05 04:51:47 <raster> it would make MANYmore apps
Jul 05 04:51:52 <raster> yes
Jul 05 04:51:57 <bpadalino> ah, very cool
Jul 05 04:51:59 <raster> and replacing pre's ui with normal x11
Jul 05 04:52:03 <raster> but for compat u'
Jul 05 04:52:05 <rwhitby> on e17 I expect ;-)
Jul 05 04:52:13 <raster> u'd need to snarf luna apps into x11
Jul 05 04:52:16 <raster> rwhitby:  of course!
Jul 05 04:52:31 <bpadalino> what is compat u' ?
Jul 05 04:52:37 <tmzt> we should rewrite it with drm :)
Jul 05 04:52:58 <tmzt> X should work fine
Jul 05 04:53:06 <bpadalino> oh - but for compat you'd .. gotcha
Jul 05 04:53:12 <raster> bpadalino:  u'd
Jul 05 04:53:14 <raster> i hit enter
Jul 05 04:53:16 <raster> too soon
Jul 05 04:53:17 <raster> :)
Jul 05 04:53:20 <bpadalino> yeah - i just put it together
Jul 05 04:53:28 <bpadalino> 4th of july celebration is still hitting me :P
Jul 05 04:53:36 <raster> tmzt:  drm the gfx layer or drm the copy protection thing?
Jul 05 04:53:37 <raster> :)
Jul 05 04:53:42 <tmzt> gfx
Jul 05 04:53:44 <tmzt> of course
Jul 05 04:53:58 <raster> static const uint32_t s_marker = 0xBAADF00D;
Jul 05 04:54:00 <raster> heheheh
Jul 05 04:54:28 <raster> EEEK!
Jul 05 04:54:30 <raster> eeek!
Jul 05 04:54:31 <raster> ዔዔኤኽ!
Jul 05 04:54:43 <bpadalino> badger badger badger
Jul 05 04:54:47 <raster> ばか！
Jul 05 04:54:55 <raster> race condition spotted
Jul 05 04:54:57 <bpadalino> that's some utf8 for you
Jul 05 04:54:58 <raster> i see a bug
Jul 05 04:55:02 <tmzt> oh
Jul 05 04:55:06 <raster> +		struct timeval tv;
Jul 05 04:55:07 <raster> +		gettimeofday(&tv, NULL);
Jul 05 04:55:07 <raster> +		key_t k = ftok(".", tv.tv_usec);
Jul 05 04:55:07 <raster> +		key = ::shmget(k, size + sizeof(PGIpcBufferMutexHeader), 0644 | IPC_CREAT | IPC_EXCL);
Jul 05 04:55:29 * bpadalino blinks
Jul 05 04:55:41 <raster> \they use microseconds as a key value to generate a shm segment (or well find it)
Jul 05 04:55:53 <raster> 1. u could technically call that code withint he same usec
Jul 05 04:56:00 <raster> or exactly N seconds later
Jul 05 04:56:01 <destinal> raster: we were talking about that actually, making a open source mojo compatible framework
Jul 05 04:56:04 <raster> so its the same usec value
Jul 05 04:56:07 <tmzt> ah
Jul 05 04:56:08 <raster> bad palm. bad!
Jul 05 04:56:15 <destinal> raster: good spot
Jul 05 04:56:52 <raster> destinal: well all the patches for making it are there
Jul 05 04:57:07 <raster> you just need to get the display end out of luna and just unto a regular x window
Jul 05 04:57:08 <bpadalino> raster, so what issues would that cause if you had 2 shm's wih the same key ?
Jul 05 04:57:14 <raster> if u do that - u can pretty much do anything after that
Jul 05 04:57:27 <rwhitby> raster: won't _CREAT and the loop around that get a unique key?
Jul 05 04:57:46 <raster> bpadalino:  the create will fail;
Jul 05 04:58:04 <raster> thus likely in this case a window wil not be created and an app will just error out when it could have perfectly started
Jul 05 04:58:15 <raster> rwhitby:  it will error out when it really shouldnt
Jul 05 04:58:23 <bpadalino> so the key must be completely unique ... gotcha
Jul 05 04:58:31 <raster> yup
Jul 05 04:58:41 <rwhitby> raster: the "while (key < ) {" loop around it ...
Jul 05 04:59:09 <rwhitby> && errno != EEXIST
Jul 05 04:59:17 <raster> the error check will return
Jul 05 04:59:22 <raster> oh wait
Jul 05 04:59:28 <raster> yes - sorry missed the EEXIST
Jul 05 04:59:36 <raster> ok - wont error out
Jul 05 04:59:41 <raster> fuck thats ugly tho
Jul 05 04:59:57 <destinal> raster: maybe they were trying to avoid the performance hit of a truly random key?
Jul 05 05:00:19 <raster> random key is trivial
Jul 05 05:00:26 <raster> have the server create the shm seg
Jul 05 05:00:27 <bpadalino> i dunno if palm was really too worried about being super efficient with their architcture
Jul 05 05:00:32 <raster> and use the pointer for the key
Jul 05 05:00:41 <raster> its guaranteed to be unique
Jul 05 05:00:45 <destinal> bpadalino: I think they were, have you seen the performance numbers vs other handsets?
Jul 05 05:00:54 <bpadalino> i mean, dbus, html, js ... not really the most super efficient technologies to try to leverage
Jul 05 05:00:54 <raster> as within the servers address space only 1 thing can exist at 1 location
Jul 05 05:01:03 <raster> +	PGIpcBuffer* b = new PGIpcBuffer(key, size);
Jul 05 05:01:06 <raster> ie do that first
Jul 05 05:01:09 <raster> use address of b
Jul 05 05:01:28 <rwhitby> bpadalino: I saw code in this webcore patch which hand-coded pixel rgba composition instead of incurring a function call overhead ...
Jul 05 05:01:49 <bpadalino> interesting
Jul 05 05:01:54 <raster> destinal: they have one of the fastest cpu's around. uc ant compare to other handsets unless its the same cpu at the same clockrate etc.
Jul 05 05:02:03 <destinal> raster: good point
Jul 05 05:02:14 <tmzt> but no gl
Jul 05 05:02:17 <destinal> speaking of which, all the more reason to try android on the thing :)
Jul 05 05:02:25 <raster> rwhitby: thats just basic gfx
Jul 05 05:02:30 <raster> u dont call a function  per pixel
Jul 05 05:02:33 <bpadalino> so they aren't using the opengl stuff in the chip ?
Jul 05 05:02:41 <raster> or i come around and rip your testicles off
Jul 05 05:02:45 <tmzt> not in the kernel
Jul 05 05:02:56 <tmzt> seems to be because of eos
Jul 05 05:02:56 <raster> destinal:  android? bah!
Jul 05 05:03:04 <bpadalino> eos ?
Jul 05 05:03:04 <raster> dont get so hyped about gl
Jul 05 05:03:08 <raster> i've done gles on the omap3
Jul 05 05:03:10 <bpadalino> oh - the other handset
Jul 05 05:03:13 <tmzt> another potential webos device
Jul 05 05:03:16 <destinal> raster: ok, a straight openembedded or openmoko?
Jul 05 05:03:16 <raster> software rendering comes out 4-6x faster than gles
Jul 05 05:03:26 <raster> do not get sucked in by the marketing
Jul 05 05:03:29 <bpadalino> raster, wow - really ?
Jul 05 05:03:39 <tmzt> without dsp?
Jul 05 05:03:40 <raster> destinal: openmoko is straight. just oe based
Jul 05 05:03:40 <bpadalino> their graphics module isn't that good at all, huh ?
Jul 05 05:03:44 <raster> bpadalino:  yes.
Jul 05 05:03:57 <raster> tmzt:  yes. without dsp. just arm. i didnt even use neon
Jul 05 05:04:01 <bpadalino> terrible - they didn't change that with the omap4 either
Jul 05 05:04:05 <raster> i have to get back to neon asm
Jul 05 05:04:09 <bpadalino> interesting
Jul 05 05:04:28 <destinal> raster: I mean, is that what you're hoping to see (that is if you had a pre, I don't know if you do)?
Jul 05 05:04:28 <raster> for 2d the sgx sucks
Jul 05 05:04:51 <raster> doing blending, scaling, fills, blits etc. - software beats the pants off the sgx
Jul 05 05:04:54 <bpadalino> that's a little disappointing
Jul 05 05:05:07 <raster> destinal:  yes. not andorid. i'd want normal linux
Jul 05 05:05:09 <raster> x11
Jul 05 05:05:22 <raster> normal userspace (busybox of course) and normal kernel
Jul 05 05:05:25 <tmzt> I mean would dsp be faster? pre seems to be using omap2 fb
Jul 05 05:05:32 <tmzt> with page flipping
Jul 05 05:05:34 <raster> tmzt: i dont know on omap3
Jul 05 05:05:39 <raster> on omap2 - definitely not
Jul 05 05:06:05 <bpadalino> omap2 dsp was pretty old .. 5510 based and pretty slow
Jul 05 05:06:27 <bpadalino> we use them at work :(
Jul 05 05:06:37 <raster> iknow - i did a littrle on the dsp on my n800
Jul 05 05:06:49 <raster> int he end it came out about 70% of the speed of the cpu at the same task
Jul 05 05:07:02 <raster> so offloading to the dsp would get u a slowdown (unacceptable)
Jul 05 05:07:21 <raster> doing some so4rt of combo of arm +dsp might have worked, but it;d be horrendously complex
Jul 05 05:07:22 <bpadalino> the c64x+ core is a bit better, though .. if you're pretty efficient at doing your coding
Jul 05 05:07:39 <raster> and thanks to the single 16m mmaped region that could be shared - it meant the dsp could see all the src data
Jul 05 05:07:58 <raster> the omap3 (64x) seems better
Jul 05 05:08:01 <bpadalino> yeah
Jul 05 05:08:02 <raster> but i have yet to play with it
Jul 05 05:08:13 <raster> right now arm + neon is more portable
Jul 05 05:08:14 <tmzt> I don't mean offload, I mean render from dsp
Jul 05 05:08:20 <raster> omap3 has a cortex a8+neon
Jul 05 05:08:31 <tmzt> not go back to arm core first
Jul 05 05:08:34 <raster> and now samsung's c100 does too (the iphone 3gs uses it)
Jul 05 05:08:37 <bpadalino> yeah, cortex a8 + neon can be very nice
Jul 05 05:08:47 <raster> the qualcomm snapdragoin also is a cortex-a8
Jul 05 05:09:01 <tmzt> with new ati core?
Jul 05 05:09:07 <raster> tmzt: that is what i meant
Jul 05 05:09:10 <raster> make the dps do all the rendering
Jul 05 05:09:35 <bpadalino> i am interested to see if the omap4's are going to stick with mobile - or see more netbook/stb exposure
Jul 05 05:09:36 <raster> (dsp and arm saee the same memory so going back or forth is moot on omap3 - omap2 dsp only saw a window of 16m shared between arm and dsp)
Jul 05 05:09:43 <tmzt> would it make sense to use drm to manage the framebuffer with 2d operations
Jul 05 05:09:44 <raster> tmzt:  ati core?
Jul 05 05:09:50 <bpadalino> i think TI is trying to make their OMAP line more netbook/stb friendly :(
Jul 05 05:09:51 <tmzt> instead of flipping with pan
Jul 05 05:09:59 <raster> oh the snapdragon u mean?
Jul 05 05:10:00 <tmzt> rat: imageon on msm7k
Jul 05 05:10:07 <tmzt> yes
Jul 05 05:10:15 <raster> i heard its ati
Jul 05 05:10:26 <raster> know nothing else as qualcomm basicaly release no real info
Jul 05 05:10:35 <raster> so i mostly ignore snapdragon
Jul 05 05:10:35 <bpadalino> not a fan of qualcomm
Jul 05 05:10:42 <bpadalino> or broadcomm
Jul 05 05:11:03 <raster> samsung dont lock things down - they are more just begningly not-open
Jul 05 05:11:15 <raster> e they dont mean to hide stuff - it just happens
Jul 05 05:11:47 <raster> ti have cottoned on to how much being open helps get customers
Jul 05 05:11:52 <bpadalino> i don't think their foundry really tries to market itself other than to large orders, right ?
Jul 05 05:11:59 <Xerran> I wonder if WebOS will be ported to netbooks like Android
Jul 05 05:12:00 <raster> as potential customers get to inspect, play and see just what the soc is
Jul 05 05:12:03 <raster> before using it
Jul 05 05:12:07 <tmzt> been working with it in touch pro (7k) for the last year almost
Jul 05 05:12:26 <bpadalino> well, i am glad they decided to open up their OMAP to the hobbyists ..
Jul 05 05:12:28 <bpadalino> and make the beagle board
Jul 05 05:12:42 <bpadalino> they are pretty well integrated SoC's
Jul 05 05:12:43 <Xerran> tmzt, really?
Jul 05 05:13:00 <raster> Xerran:  only palm will do it.. and i suspect that is why the folio was cancelled. the pre was coming together and they saw what it can do and decided to wait before doing a laptop-style thing
Jul 05 05:13:12 <tmzt> unfortunately qualcomm in the past would test there demo boards with amss and BREW
Jul 05 05:13:25 <Xerran> ok
Jul 05 05:13:37 <tmzt> now with aurora code project they are becoming more like ti
Jul 05 05:13:50 <tmzt> if the release surfboards
Jul 05 05:13:51 <tmzt> which is not likely
Jul 05 05:15:55 <bpadalino> the qualcomm chipset in the pre can do both mp3 and h264 decoding ... so i wonder if you could offload some of that stuff to that chip while keeping the cortex less busy ..
Jul 05 05:16:21 <raster> bpadalino:  unlikely - unless the specs on how to do it exist.... publically
Jul 05 05:16:28 <raster> the q is.. is it more efficient?
Jul 05 05:16:36 <bpadalino> that's a good question
Jul 05 05:16:44 <raster> the omap has a dsp
Jul 05 05:16:50 <raster> that is alreayd usable
Jul 05 05:16:52 <bpadalino> i believe the c64x+ is doing the mp3/h264 stuff
Jul 05 05:16:53 <raster> and documented
Jul 05 05:16:54 <destinal> bpadalino: they don't offload h264 decoding?  I thought the power issues alone made it way worthwhile
Jul 05 05:17:02 <raster> so its doing it - keep it there
Jul 05 05:17:06 <destinal> ah
Jul 05 05:17:09 <bpadalino> which would take more power than dedicated hardware
Jul 05 05:17:23 <raster> possibly
Jul 05 05:17:28 <raster> but it depends on how its hooked up
Jul 05 05:17:28 * rwhitby bbl
Jul 05 05:17:43 <raster> is the msm hooked up via uart and usb, or via shared mem?
Jul 05 05:17:50 <raster> if uart+usb - its useless for this
Jul 05 05:18:29 <bpadalino> usb
Jul 05 05:18:34 <raster> then its useless
Jul 05 05:18:58 <raster> (for mp3, h624 decode)
Jul 05 05:19:12 <bpadalino> just sucks putting down extra silicon which never gets used :(
Jul 05 05:19:20 <raster> its cheaper
Jul 05 05:19:24 <raster> that way
Jul 05 05:20:22 <bpadalino> i've never seen qualcomm and cheap in the same sentence :)
Jul 05 05:20:28 <raster> no
Jul 05 05:20:36 <raster> but it'd be more if they made special msm's without it
Jul 05 05:21:37 <bpadalino> true
Jul 05 05:22:09 <bpadalino> i think that sgx news has me bummed out
Jul 05 05:22:29 <raster> well - it's true
Jul 05 05:22:33 <raster> i had hoped for much more
Jul 05 05:22:40 <jauderho> does the iphone use the same sgx or something else?
Jul 05 05:22:47 <raster> on desktops (nvidia for example) gl beats software
Jul 05 05:23:00 <raster> where software beats gl - is known (when gl needs to make more copies that software does)
Jul 05 05:23:11 <raster> jauderho:  the older 3g and 2g has mbx
Jul 05 05:23:14 <raster> new 2gs has sgx
Jul 05 05:23:17 <raster> er 3gs
Jul 05 05:23:45 <bpadalino> so if you were doing 3d in the pre, then it would be better - but just doing the 2d stuff it's terrible
Jul 05 05:24:08 <jauderho> I have read differing reports that the 3GS either has the 530 or 5353/540
Jul 05 05:24:08 <raster> thats my experience + benchmarking
Jul 05 05:24:13 <jauderho> 535 that is
Jul 05 05:24:18 <raster> i have a egl/gles2 engine for evas
Jul 05 05:24:28 <raster> and glx and xrender, dfb, software etc.
Jul 05 05:24:34 <raster> so i can benchmark apples vs apples
Jul 05 05:24:43 <raster> in 2d
Jul 05 05:24:56 <bpadalino> very nice - good to know what you're dealing with
Jul 05 05:25:21 <Robi_> woo my Pre had the best camera for taking pics of the fireworks
Jul 05 05:25:49 <Robi_> all other phones were so delayed with the video that they missed all the explosions
Jul 05 05:27:12 <bpadalino> 1:30a .. time for bed .. night
Jul 05 05:27:13 <jauderho> too bad the white balance is horrible
Jul 05 05:27:23 <raster> nites!
Jul 05 05:27:27 <jauderho> pre camera could use a lot of improvement.
Jul 05 05:27:58 <Lurking_Grue> All cellphone cameras suck.
Jul 05 05:28:11 <mekius> indeed
Jul 05 05:28:14 <Gompers> Pre camera has some weird color issues though
Jul 05 05:28:19 <raster> not surprising if u have a tiny shitty lens and cdd capture area
Jul 05 05:28:23 <jauderho> no doubt but the pre's camera has very bad color issues
Jul 05 05:28:25 <Gompers> I'd love to get some raw images from it
Jul 05 05:28:27 <jauderho> as gompers said.
Jul 05 05:28:45 <Lurking_Grue> I wonder if the software could be modded to get the raw data.
Jul 05 05:28:47 <Gompers> to see if it's the sensor or some of the obviously crazy postprocessing that happens
Jul 05 05:28:55 <jauderho> getting raw is pointless if there is nothing that can process it.
Jul 05 05:29:18 <Gompers> true enough
Jul 05 05:29:33 <Gompers> so add that to the wishlist...raw images in .dng format
Jul 05 05:29:36 <Lurking_Grue> Gomp: I am betting it's the sensor.
Jul 05 05:30:02 <Gompers> grue: could well be
Jul 05 05:30:08 <jauderho> the iphone 3gs comparatively does not have the color shift issues.
Jul 05 05:30:19 <raster> u can fix the colors anyway - even as a processed image
Jul 05 05:30:31 <raster> u just lack the software to do it on thew pre
Jul 05 05:30:36 <raster> (as part of the camera app)
Jul 05 05:30:46 <Gompers> well you can sort of change them. Without raw, it'll never be right
Jul 05 05:31:07 <Gompers> but it's a camera phone so you're not going to be turning the photos into 8x12s anyway
Jul 05 05:31:08 <Lurking_Grue> Noise Ninja: http://www.picturecode.com/
Jul 05 05:31:33 <tmzt> it's not connected to the right bus for that I think
Jul 05 05:31:38 <tmzt> sorry
Jul 05 05:33:01 <Gompers> Cameraphones all suck though, and they probably always will compared to even a cheap point and shoot
Jul 05 05:33:08 <jauderho> I made a noise ninja profile for the pre
Jul 05 05:34:13 <Lurking_Grue> I shoot with a Canon 40D with expensive glass... I only see the camera on the pre a thing to screw around with.  I.E. Waiting for bar code reading software :)
Jul 05 05:34:14 <jauderho> I don't expect slr or even P&S quality pics.
Jul 05 05:34:23 <Gompers> Noise Ninja is pretty awesome, but you can't fix what the Pre is doing to photos :D
Jul 05 05:34:33 <jauderho> but at least the color issues need to be fixed.
Jul 05 05:34:56 <jauderho> and the WB is unusable with the flash turned on.
Jul 05 05:34:59 <Gompers> heheh I have a 350D and a 1D Mark 1 and a few L lenses to go with them.
Jul 05 05:35:48 <jauderho> now if someone gets ZXing working on the pre. that would be fantastic.
Jul 05 05:36:03 <Lurking_Grue> Gomp: My camera phone usage is always trying it with a bit of excitement thinking perhaps it is not complete crap... I am always disappointed.
Jul 05 05:36:41 <Gompers> Grue: I'ts not THAT horrible. In fact, it's probably marginally passable for doing 4x5s or something. If you pixel peep a cameraphone, though, you're always going to be disappointed.
Jul 05 05:37:09 <jauderho> the pre camera IS bad tho
Jul 05 05:37:22 <destinal> which is unfortunate for a 3mp camera
Jul 05 05:37:25 <Lurking_Grue> True, the noise is always horrible and hard to ignore color banding.
Jul 05 05:37:29 <jauderho> I was not happy to discover the color shifts simply by tilting the camera
Jul 05 05:38:08 <AgentSmith> yeah 3Gs blows Pre away in the photo quality dept
Jul 05 05:38:11 <AgentSmith> as do most Nokia
Jul 05 05:38:39 <Gompers> megapixels are meaningless
Jul 05 05:38:47 <AgentSmith> very true
Jul 05 05:38:52 <Gompers> in fact, with the sensor size in the Pre, fewer megapixels is probably better
Jul 05 05:38:54 <AgentSmith> it's how you use them
Jul 05 05:39:09 <Lurking_Grue> Gomp: Noise is more the issue.... I wonder how much of the camera can be cleaned up.
Jul 05 05:39:14 <Lurking_Grue> With software.
Jul 05 05:39:50 <jauderho> Noise ninja works okay.
Jul 05 05:40:01 <jauderho> cleans it up decent but there's only so much it can do
Jul 05 05:40:03 <Gompers> Grue: even getting rid of noise in Noise Ninja, you're going to end up with really soft images
Jul 05 05:40:11 <jauderho> yup
Jul 05 05:40:22 <Gompers> it's a shit camera, let's face it
Jul 05 05:40:24 <jauderho> http://post.jauderho.com/coyote-point
Jul 05 05:40:29 <jauderho> this was noise ninja'ed
Jul 05 05:40:31 <Lurking_Grue> 3MP is great if it was sharp and low noise.   Yeah I mean processing on the phone... could palm be using the hardware badly.
Jul 05 05:40:55 <Gompers> Nice, jauderho
Jul 05 05:40:55 <jauderho> well I can't tell what kind of post processing the pre is doing to the image.
Jul 05 05:41:09 <Gompers> it's sharpening the hell out of it, and definitely increasing the saturation
Jul 05 05:41:09 <AgentSmith> none of palm's handsets have ever been particularly good at images
Jul 05 05:41:15 <jauderho> but just the sensor itself is odd
Jul 05 05:41:27 <jauderho> well I unsharped masked it too.
Jul 05 05:41:37 <Lurking_Grue> Gomp: the point I mean is did Palm rush the software.
Jul 05 05:41:58 <jauderho> I'm not sure if palm rushed the software as much as they just used the sample code
Jul 05 05:42:15 <AgentSmith> what didn't palm rush?
Jul 05 05:42:22 <AgentSmith> they had to beat the new iphone
Jul 05 05:42:26 <AgentSmith> they did a good job for such a rush though
Jul 05 05:42:30 <jauderho> i'm suspicious that they just took whatever sample code was provided for the camera and just used it instead of taking time to fix things.
Jul 05 05:42:48 <AgentSmith> considering the cell radio firmware is named EVT i wouldn't doubt it
Jul 05 05:42:56 <Lurking_Grue> Yeah, I am betting they didn't have any real experts on it.
Jul 05 05:43:13 <Gompers> grue: maybe they did. Hopefully they did, and it's fixable. It's still better than the camera in the 755p by a fair amount
Jul 05 05:43:18 <jauderho> plus the out the box images have bad color saturation. http://post.jauderho.com/lone-palm
Jul 05 05:43:37 <AgentSmith> that said, before the camera got fixed i'd like to see other stuff fixed
Jul 05 05:43:45 <AgentSmith> like the browser allowing extended character set entry
Jul 05 05:43:55 <AgentSmith> nothing under the SYM key works in a browser input field
Jul 05 05:43:56 <Lurking_Grue> Agent: Agreed.
Jul 05 05:44:00 <Gompers> My 1D with a 70-200 F/4L does me no good when I'm not carrying it
Jul 05 05:44:11 <AgentSmith> haha true dat Gompers
Jul 05 05:44:15 <jauderho> lol
Jul 05 05:44:18 <AgentSmith> that's why you always carry it!
Jul 05 05:44:22 <jauderho> I'm looking at the EP-1
Jul 05 05:44:41 <jauderho> I was hopeful for the Sigma DP1 but it turned out to be useless. way too slow.
Jul 05 05:44:42 <AgentSmith> i've kicked myself the few times i've left my 40D behind
Jul 05 05:44:47 <Gompers> hell no, that thing is heavy as hell
Jul 05 05:45:09 <Gompers> I might consider the 350D with the nifty 50 on it...that's a pretty lightweight combo
Jul 05 05:45:10 <AgentSmith> feh, helps with endurance in case you ever have to run a biathalon carrying a baby
Jul 05 05:45:37 <AgentSmith> get the battery grip and that ginormous sigma 500mm lens and go to town :-D
Jul 05 05:46:00 <jauderho> why stop there.
Jul 05 05:46:05 <jauderho> get the 1200mm =)
Jul 05 05:46:07 <Lurking_Grue> Agent: Try the 40D with the 17-55 2.8 IS... It's gets to be a good workout. :)
Jul 05 05:46:26 <Gompers> 1200mm is an absurd lens
Jul 05 05:46:41 <jauderho> it's not the most absurd.
Jul 05 05:46:50 <jauderho> there's also a 5200mm iirc
Jul 05 05:46:52 <Lurking_Grue> 1200mm 1.4 ;)
Jul 05 05:47:08 <jauderho> lol. it would be the size of a monster truck
Jul 05 05:47:18 <Robi_> telescope
Jul 05 05:47:22 <Gompers> http://www.flickr.com/photos/peteleongphotography/2433187773/
Jul 05 05:47:25 <Lurking_Grue> Yeah I suppose that would be a telescope.
Jul 05 05:47:41 <Gompers> I think there's a picture of it with a camera body on it. it's pretty comical
Jul 05 05:48:24 <Robi_> heh, is that a lends in your pocket or are you happy to se me
Jul 05 05:48:30 <Lurking_Grue> Ok, now THATS a lens :)
Jul 05 05:49:10 <Robi_> $55,000
Jul 05 05:49:37 <jauderho> 55 isn't bad
Jul 05 05:49:43 <jauderho> the 1200mm goes for $80k
Jul 05 05:49:59 <Robi_>  view profile
Jul 05 05:50:00 <Robi_> spartanwarrior217 says:
Jul 05 05:50:01 <Robi_> this is stupid. just buy a telescope which is much more powerful and much smaller!
Jul 05 05:50:13 <Gompers> http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/canon/fdresources/fdlenses/reflex8002000/cat.htm here we go
Jul 05 05:50:29 <Robi_> hehe
Jul 05 05:50:30 <Robi_>  view profile
Jul 05 05:50:30 <Robi_> lao_tien says:
Jul 05 05:50:32 <Robi_> And I thought 1200mm was the largest and most rare Canon lens. However I wonder can this beat Hubble? :)) And if it does, what next? I assume this should be the best lens for stealthy portraiture and spying work. I hope it comes with a truck...
Jul 05 05:50:35 <Gompers> Of course that's an FD mount camera, probably a 1A or something on it
Jul 05 05:51:01 <CIA-76> bzhou * r10423 optware/trunk/make/libvorbis.mk: libvorbis: no -Wextra if gcc3
Jul 05 05:51:02 <CIA-76> bzhou * r10424 optware/trunk/platforms/packages-vt4.mk: packages-vt4: demoted cryptcat
Jul 05 05:51:10 <Gompers> er A1 I mean
Jul 05 05:52:10 <jauderho> I used to think the 1200mm was a big lens till I saw the 5200mm =)
Jul 05 05:52:37 <Gompers> yeah I like the telescope on the 5200 for aiming it
Jul 05 05:52:48 <Gompers> since the field of view is so freaking tiny
Jul 05 05:55:07 <tmzt> #dslr?
Jul 05 05:56:07 <Gompers> so, anyone want to make an adaptor for the pre for that thing?
Jul 05 05:56:13 <jauderho> lol
Jul 05 05:56:15 <AgentSmith> i gotta pease for a bit
Jul 05 05:56:21 <AgentSmith> lol nice segue!
Jul 05 05:56:29 <AgentSmith> all irc channels are fair game afaiac as long as main topics are nothing
Jul 05 05:56:40 <AgentSmith> peace even i can't spell
Jul 05 05:57:21 <tmzt> there's camera code in the kernel
Jul 05 05:57:31 <jauderho> where?
Jul 05 05:58:04 <tmzt> check the patch on opensource.palm.com
Jul 05 06:00:39 <Xerran> Goodnight all.....i'm off to finish my beer, blast zombies in Left 4 dead then head to bed
Jul 05 06:00:45 <Eguy-away> How did webos turn into DSL photography LOL
Jul 05 06:00:56 <destinal> Xerran:  I love that game :)
Jul 05 06:01:10 <destinal> Xerran: good night
Jul 05 06:02:09 <Xerran> destinal, whats your steam ID?
Jul 05 06:02:19 <jauderho> interesting
Jul 05 06:02:30 <destinal> Xerran: destinal
Jul 05 06:02:36 <Xerran> ok
Jul 05 06:02:37 <jauderho> # CONFIG_VIDEO_OMAP_CAMERA is not set
Jul 05 06:02:38 <Xerran> laters
Jul 05 06:14:36 * djbclark finishes his pre hacking for the night - http://predev.wikidot.com/palmvnc-terminal is probably the most useful result
Jul 05 06:19:17 <Lurking_Grue> Hmmm... Are you giving me a real reason to actually buy Classic?  :)
Jul 05 06:19:42 <Eguy> No reason is worth $30 IMO :)
Jul 05 06:20:59 <Lurking_Grue> Yeah proper ssh would be worth it. Though they honestly should be charging $20 at most considering how buggy it is.
Jul 05 06:21:18 <Snake__> Ughhh I need an extended battery for my pre so bad
Jul 05 06:21:42 <Snake__> unplugged it at 11am today, as of right now (2 am) its down to 9% battery life
Jul 05 06:21:45 <Lurking_Grue> You need chargers everywhere you go. :)
Jul 05 06:21:53 <Lurking_Grue> I got a touchstone for work.
Jul 05 06:21:57 <Snake__> Lurking_Grue: Not an option unfortantly, I dont have a desk
Jul 05 06:21:59 <Snake__> I work in retail
Jul 05 06:22:00 <Snake__> :-/
Jul 05 06:22:29 <Eguy> I was at 100% at noon and I just plugged in at 7% with the Seidio 1350 battery...
Jul 05 06:22:55 <Snake__> ive been looking at car chargers, but then id need a stock of microUSB cables to go for my touchstone at home, use for data transfer, and for my car
Jul 05 06:22:55 <Eguy> 11hrs with 2 push accounts
Jul 05 06:22:59 <Snake__> lol
Jul 05 06:23:33 <Eguy> monoprice.com has really cheap microusb cables
Jul 05 06:24:08 <Gompers> they work great too
Jul 05 06:24:28 <Gompers> though I don't know if they work well with the touchstone
Jul 05 06:24:52 <Eguy> They do.
Jul 05 06:25:11 <Gompers> Have you tried the monoprice USB car charger with the touchstone?
Jul 05 06:25:20 <Eguy> Sometimes I need to open the slider first though.
Jul 05 06:25:32 <Eguy> Nope.
Jul 05 06:25:51 <Gompers> It works great for charging via the uUSB port
Jul 05 06:25:54 <Eguy> I wouldn't use a TS in the car.
Jul 05 06:25:57 <tmzt> has to be more than 1 ampere
Jul 05 06:26:11 <Gompers> it SAYS it puts out 1000milliamps
Jul 05 06:26:34 <Eguy> So does mine.
Jul 05 06:26:43 <Gompers> but who knows what it actually does
Jul 05 06:26:56 <Eguy> Unless you take a multimeter :P
Jul 05 06:26:58 <Gompers> I mean, it cost like a buck fidy
Jul 05 06:27:09 <Gompers> I don't expect miracles from it
Jul 05 06:27:11 <tmzt> don't do that
Jul 05 06:27:22 <tmzt> you have to splice the cables to measure
Jul 05 06:30:47 <Rick_> well, yes but you can put a plug in the lighter, splice THAT to a female, and check amps pulled that way.
Jul 05 06:31:37 <Lurking_Grue> Could just plug a touchstone into an inverter.
Jul 05 06:32:03 <Lurking_Grue> Like this one:  http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/travelpower/b29e/
Jul 05 06:33:31 <Eguy> That might blow your car up.
Jul 05 06:37:18 <Rick_> naaaa
Jul 05 06:43:29 <Eguy> Time for my Pre heat mod 0.1 beta :)
Jul 05 06:43:52 <tmzt> ?
Jul 05 06:44:25 <Eguy> I was thinking of packing some stuff in between the antenna portion and the back cover.
Jul 05 06:44:41 <Eguy> Mine gets extremely hot below the battery
Jul 05 06:48:13 <gkatsev> Eguy: perhaps the cpu frequency mod will help
Jul 05 06:48:14 <gkatsev> ?
Jul 05 06:49:37 <Eguy> Possibly, but I don't want to make it any slower than it already is.
Jul 05 06:49:59 <gkatsev> Eguy: change it to on-demand scailing
Jul 05 06:50:11 <gkatsev> at the moment, its clocked at 500MHz always
Jul 05 06:50:27 <gkatsev> and you can have 500MHz as top (or even 600MHz)
Jul 05 06:50:37 <gkatsev> but it can also scale and not use as much if it isnt needed
Jul 05 06:50:40 <Eguy> It gets unbelieveably hot when I am using EV data where the black tape is.
Jul 05 06:50:50 <gkatsev> will also possibly help with battery life
Jul 05 06:50:53 <Eguy> Not when it is idle
Jul 05 06:51:53 <gkatsev> Eguy: right, but if you only have one browser card open, you dont need all 500MHz as opposed to if you have 3 browser cards, pandora and email open, right?
Jul 05 06:51:58 <gkatsev> so, it could help
Jul 05 06:52:51 <gkatsev> im thinking of trying it out to get battery life, because, for me, i come home with less than 20% battery life, so, it might help
Jul 05 06:52:58 <gkatsev> anyway, i need to sleep. 2:50am here
Jul 05 06:52:59 <gkatsev> night
Jul 05 06:56:15 <A2NY_> scale =\
Jul 05 06:56:25 <A2NY_> ive been freezing like crazy
Jul 05 06:56:37 <Eguy> Cya
Jul 05 06:57:12 <Eguy> I might try it, for now though, I just packed in the back door with foam, I'll see if that works :D
Jul 05 06:58:21 <Eguy> It's weird that the Pre's battery is always cold and the antenna's are burning hot.
Jul 05 06:58:50 <Eguy> Especially if the Pre does not have signal...you can fry a burger on it.
Jul 05 06:59:24 <A2NY_> or if its charing on the stone
Jul 05 07:00:39 <Eguy> I wouldn't know, I don't have one yet :)
Jul 05 07:00:39 <Sloloem> I don't notice it heating up when it doesn't have signal...but I regularly take it off the touchstone and make dinner with it.
Jul 05 07:01:12 <A2NY_> so
Jul 05 07:01:18 <Eguy> I was in a no signal area today and I had to take it out of my pocket because it was burning through the pouch and my shorts pockets :(
Jul 05 07:01:25 <A2NY_> i am just going to set max freg to 550
Jul 05 07:01:36 <Eguy> 1Ghz :D
Jul 05 07:03:41 <jauderho> I set my max freq to 600 and min freq to 250
Jul 05 07:03:44 <jauderho> seems to work okay
Jul 05 07:04:23 <A2NY_> thats what i thought =\
Jul 05 07:04:39 <Eguy> My Airave seems to have broken, won't get a GPS lock and a connection. :(
Jul 05 07:05:17 <A2NY_> fail =\
Jul 05 07:05:24 <A2NY_> i set the freq now it locks up
Jul 05 07:07:20 <Eguy> Ouch
Jul 05 07:07:41 <Eguy> I won't be messing with that. Some things are better left alone IMO :)
Jul 05 07:08:01 <A2NY_> i void warranties
Jul 05 07:09:04 <Eguy> #%@% get a flipping GPS stupid Airave.... Great, back to no signal at my house.
Jul 05 07:09:21 <Eguy> Worked fine for 2 weeks and now, nothing
Jul 05 07:11:42 <Sloloem> Man why is it that everytime I try to do something on the phone with an end goal I'm up until 4am?
Jul 05 07:11:59 <A2NY_> Sloloem, what are you working on
Jul 05 07:12:50 <Sloloem> Getting the calendar to show all day events in the month view
Jul 05 07:13:32 <A2NY_> if you need anything ;)
Jul 05 07:13:42 <Sloloem> I think I'm almost there.
Jul 05 07:13:52 <A2NY_> good
Jul 05 07:14:51 <Sloloem> Trying to figure out how to apply the style, actually.
Jul 05 07:17:44 <A2NY_> style, like css ?
Jul 05 07:23:05 <Sloloem> Yeah.  The calendar app builds the whole table on the fly so I need to track down the correct element to apply style to, to somehow inform all day.  Or I guess the other option is to tweak it so the whole thing is shaded.
Jul 05 07:25:03 <Sloloem> My original idea was to highlight the background so you knew there was something all day there, and then if there were other events the shading would say so.
Jul 05 07:30:17 <A2NY_> nice
Jul 05 07:33:19 <A2NY_> what is the best way to keep alive the eth0
Jul 05 07:36:05 <Sloloem> I'm gonna toy around with the visual aspect in the morning, have a patch by late afternoon probably.
Jul 05 07:36:18 <A2NY_> booo patch
Jul 05 07:36:25 <A2NY_> make is easy for others =\
Jul 05 07:36:35 <Sloloem> Boo?  I thought we loved patches.  Ok, how do I do that?
Jul 05 07:36:55 <A2NY_> lol...no
Jul 05 07:37:00 <A2NY_> patches make it easy for others
Jul 05 07:38:02 <Sloloem> Ah.  I think I see.  Well I'm out.
Jul 05 07:38:15 <Sloloem> g'night
Jul 05 07:38:49 <A2NY_> later
Jul 05 08:06:04 <seekis> anybody in here using a mac?
Jul 05 10:53:12 <freetim> I just did a FIND across the entire system, and it caused phone to reboot is there some workaround?  -     find / -type f -exec grep -l "Launcher" {} \
Jul 05 10:53:35 <freetim> I got lots of results first though, so at least the FIND was working at first
Jul 05 10:56:27 <jdub> freetim: try adding -xdev (so find doesn't look in other mounded filesystems, such as proc and dev)
Jul 05 10:56:39 <jdub> freetim: doesn't busybox grep on the pre have -r ?
Jul 05 11:07:33 <freetim> Thanks jdub I'll try it.   - & I don't know about the -r option but I can try that
Jul 05 11:10:10 <jdub> freetim: your other option is unpacking the webdoctor tarball and grepping around on a desktop/laptop (real grep, faster disk, etc)
Jul 05 11:22:25 <freetim> cool, didin't know that was possible
Jul 05 11:22:53 <freetim> I like command-line though, so I'll try the -xdev  first
Jul 05 11:23:45 <jdub> freetim: i was implying you use the command line on your linux desktop :-)
Jul 05 12:13:33 <blau-mikedg> weird if imake this app headless, then i the back gesture doesnt work as expected
Jul 05 12:13:34 <blau-mikedg> wtf
Jul 05 12:15:35 <_neural_> anybody can tell me how to create a ipk file and transfer to the pre in linux?
Jul 05 13:26:01 <vmlemon> Hi
Jul 05 13:36:19 <MTW> is there some way to take screenshots at the pre lock screen?
Jul 05 14:09:30 <CIA-76> bzhou * r10425 optware/trunk/ (make/pixman.mk sources/pixman/AT_HWCAP.patch): pixman: fix build on ts101
Jul 05 14:28:52 <CIA-76> bzhou * r10426 optware/trunk/make/libextractor.mk: libextractor: 0.5.22 -> 0.5.23
Jul 05 15:01:03 <MTW> is there some way to take screenshots at the pre lock screen?
Jul 05 16:04:35 <woyzeck> hi, newb here. i was hoping someone could help me a little. i got as far as getting and enabling patch for downloading from browser, but doesn't seem to work(?) still streaming mp3, etc.
Jul 05 16:07:52 <woyzeck> nobody there?
Jul 05 16:08:31 <Sloloem> I was reading up on the patch.
Jul 05 16:09:14 <woyzeck> ok thanks
Jul 05 16:09:32 <Sloloem> How and from where did you apply the patch?
Jul 05 16:10:01 <woyzeck> i followed instructions at http://predev.wikidot.com/applying-patches
Jul 05 16:12:20 <Sloloem> It doesn't look like the enable-browser-downloads.patch in gitorious right now includes the code to prompt for download vs. stream.
Jul 05 16:14:17 <woyzeck> i don't think i got it from gitorious, just the webos-internals modifications repository. does that matter?
Jul 05 16:14:47 <woyzeck> also, i tried downloading a pdf from livedrive and couldn't download that either
Jul 05 16:15:06 <woyzeck> it doesn't seem like the patch is enabled
Jul 05 16:17:24 <Sloloem> Did you reboot after the quilt push command?  I've found a lot of the time using luna-send to rescan doesn't get the application to start using the new code, you either have to stop and start LunaSysMgr from the command prompt or just reboot the phone.
Jul 05 16:18:11 <woyzeck> i did. i'm just seeing now if the patch is still there
Jul 05 16:19:13 <woyzeck> there are two patches there "bookmark" and "enable-browser-downloads" will try again the restart
Jul 05 16:21:09 <woyzeck> i may have found it. it seems you need to "quilt push" twice (?) once for each patch?
Jul 05 16:23:17 <Sloloem> I know next to nothing about quilt at the moment, although I do think I remember something similar to that being discussed here a few days ago...yeah it looks like quilt uses a push/pop sort of thing.  According to the doc there's 'quilt pop -a' and 'quilt push -a' to remove and apply all patches.
Jul 05 16:25:27 <woyzeck> oh i see. thanks. i'll try a few more things. now, when downloading from the browser  i get a message "Cannot find an application which can open this file.  Would you like to download it to /media/internal/downloads?"
Jul 05 16:26:22 <woyzeck> ...i click yes and nothing seems to happen... is there a way to see that download from the palm?
Jul 05 16:28:18 <Sloloem> Unless it's a picture file, I don't think so.
Jul 05 16:31:11 <woyzeck> i think i'm getting the picture. you need to install sftp
Jul 05 16:32:01 <woyzeck> oh, i see the mp3 i downloaded is showing up in the media player
Jul 05 16:32:56 <woyzeck> .doc file doesn't show up in the docs tho.
Jul 05 16:32:58 <woyzeck> thanks for your help
Jul 05 16:33:19 <Sloloem> No problem, I was gonna have to read up on quilt soon anyway
Jul 05 16:45:19 <woyzeck> update:i can download from many webpages (it gives an option for streaming or downloading) but can't download from livedrive. I get an "AjaxHandler.ashx?Type=Q..." message at the bottom of the screen
Jul 05 16:45:58 <woyzeck> i guess the patch just doesn't have that capability (?) to dl from m.livedrive.com
Jul 05 16:47:37 <woyzeck> i can prolly do that with sftp tho. i'll try that later.
Jul 05 17:00:06 <Templarian> What's the easiest way to get the fonts off the device for mockup purposes?
Jul 05 17:02:23 <Templarian> (I'll give someone a cookie if they send me them over irc in a zip, they are called "Prelude" + type)
Jul 05 17:03:17 <destinal_sleepin> Templarian: download them from a device or extract them from a webos doctor jar?  /usr/share/fonts is the path
Jul 05 17:03:23 <destinal_sleepin> I don't see any Prelude
Jul 05 17:04:10 <Templarian> Really, i'll go check it out and see if it's named something else on the device.
Jul 05 17:08:45 <destinal> they look to be pretty common fonts
Jul 05 17:08:59 <Templarian> http://typophile.com/node/58935
Jul 05 17:09:10 <Templarian> It says here they are called Prelude...
Jul 05 17:09:20 <destinal> interesting
Jul 05 17:15:44 <destinal> I think they're called Coconut inside webOS
Jul 05 17:16:33 <destinal> Coconut-BoldD.ttf            Coconut-Medium.ttf           CoconutCondensed-Bold.ttf
Jul 05 17:16:34 <destinal> Coconut-BoldOblique.ttf      Coconut-MediumOblique.ttf    CoconutCondensed-Medium.ttf
Jul 05 17:17:07 <destinal> I loaded them up into windows and they definitely look the exact same as the ones in the article
Jul 05 17:18:57 <Templarian> Yea, downloading it now so i can extract it.
Jul 05 17:27:21 <destinal> ./com.palm.app.photos/stylesheets/framework-light.css:  font: 20px 'Coconut', sans-serif;
Jul 05 17:27:21 <destinal> ./com.palm.app.screenlock/stylesheets/screenlock.css:   font: 20px 'Coconut', sans-serif;
Jul 05 17:27:22 <destinal> etc
Jul 05 17:37:55 <Sloloem> Mornin', A2NY_
Jul 05 17:43:38 <A2NY_> hi
Jul 05 17:44:08 <A2NY_> removed sound from touchstone charging :D
Jul 05 17:46:55 * Templarian thinks it would have best to replace the sound with "giggity"
Jul 05 17:55:42 <A2NY_> lol
Jul 05 17:55:46 <A2NY_> no giggity
Jul 05 18:11:41 <MTW> is there some way to take screenshots at the pre lock screen?
Jul 05 18:11:50 <destinal> FYI for anyone looking at the WebCore w/ patch to look at palm specific plugin modifications, it's best to "diff -u win/PluginViewWin.cpp palm/PluginViewPalm.cpp"  since it's a new file but appears to be a copy
Jul 05 18:11:50 <Eguy> http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/04/apple-blames-hot-iphones-on-the-weather-others-find-oleophobic/ I love internet fights :)
Jul 05 18:26:43 <A2NY_> anyone want to test, no sound on while docking to touchstone ?
Jul 05 18:32:12 <destinal> hmm, I guess I'll see whether apple's sample plugin is easier to use. sigh.
Jul 05 18:33:24 <destinal> it is webkit we're using after all
Jul 05 18:33:51 <tmzt> how is that going?
Jul 05 18:35:03 <destinal> tmzt: we have plugins running just not graphical ones yet
Jul 05 18:35:19 <tmzt> cool
Jul 05 18:35:22 <tmzt> stderr?
Jul 05 18:35:36 <destinal> I don't know where stderr is going ;)  so I'm logging to a file in /
Jul 05 18:35:54 <destinal> http://predev.wikidot.com/browser-plugins
Jul 05 18:35:56 <tmzt> did you see what raster said about how it requests surfaces?
Jul 05 18:36:19 <destinal> yeah, and I've seen the code too, but I don't think a plugin has to deal directly with surface
Jul 05 18:36:47 <destinal> I could be wrong, still digging, but palm hasn't changed much in the plugin interface
Jul 05 18:36:49 <destinal> from standard
Jul 05 18:39:09 <destinal> open source plugins I've tried so far either a) have way too many library dependancies I don't want to deal with  b) use windowless mode which doesn't appear to be supported in webOS,  or c) don't build
Jul 05 18:39:47 <destinal> so I'm checking out apple's sample plug in
Jul 05 18:40:04 <tmzt> those plugins use X tricks
Jul 05 18:40:12 <tmzt> we can't use those here
Jul 05 18:40:17 <destinal> tmzt: read the spec
Jul 05 18:40:26 <tmzt> which spec?
Jul 05 18:40:30 <destinal> npapi
Jul 05 18:40:37 <destinal> it's not x tricks
Jul 05 18:40:55 <tmzt> i know, I mean the oss plugins mentioned
Jul 05 18:41:14 <tmzt> WINDOWID, etc.
Jul 05 18:41:25 <destinal> there's a motif drawable widget that's presented from browser to plugin, plugin draws on it.  the browser should be dealing with the platform specific implementation
Jul 05 18:41:30 <destinal> at least in windowed mode
Jul 05 18:41:35 <tmzt> ok
Jul 05 18:41:37 <destinal> windowless mode is something totally different
Jul 05 18:41:54 <tmzt> then I misread what you said
Jul 05 18:42:10 <tmzt> we just need to render to a pixmap I think
Jul 05 18:42:16 <destinal> right
Jul 05 18:42:21 <destinal> essentially
Jul 05 18:43:03 <destinal> someone who was very familiar with npapi would be done already.  I'm just having to learn as I go which is slow
Jul 05 18:44:14 <tmzt> it's not different? the rendering to pixmap is in the spec?
Jul 05 18:44:26 <destinal> afaik it's not different
Jul 05 18:44:59 <tmzt> so the plugin gets the drawevent
Jul 05 18:45:14 <destinal> http://predev.wikidot.com/browser-plugins
Jul 05 18:45:16 <tmzt> which has the pointer to a pixmap with width and height (or rect)
Jul 05 18:45:23 <tmzt> I just looked at that
Jul 05 18:45:35 <tmzt> I don't have gecko sdk right now
Jul 05 18:45:37 <destinal> check the series of events, but yeah
Jul 05 18:45:59 <destinal> is a pixmap the same as a motif drawable widget?
Jul 05 18:47:01 <destinal> check http://mxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/modules/plugin/samples/default/unix/npshell.c
Jul 05 18:47:14 <destinal>  NPP_SetWindow
Jul 05 18:47:33 <destinal> 243       makePixmap(This);
Jul 05 18:47:37 <destinal> 244       makeWidget(This);
Jul 05 18:47:40 <destinal> 245     }
Jul 05 18:47:45 <destinal> at the end
Jul 05 18:48:31 <destinal> so we get a setwindow call with a pointer to a widget, we have to build it which includes a pixmap
Jul 05 18:48:39 <destinal> but those two lines are pseudocode
Jul 05 18:48:49 <destinal> or rather undefined functions
Jul 05 18:48:56 <destinal> they expect you to implement that
Jul 05 18:49:28 <destinal> this is not a hard problem I'm just not much of a C / C++ programmer
Jul 05 18:51:28 <tmzt> I would suggest looking at the whatwg npapi pages
Jul 05 18:52:02 <tmzt> we have to assume NPWindow* is opaque and not necessarily the same as mozilla
Jul 05 18:52:13 <A2NY_> search is broken on wiki
Jul 05 18:52:13 <destinal> why?
Jul 05 18:53:03 <tmzt> why what?
Jul 05 18:53:16 <destinal> why must it be different?
Jul 05 18:53:21 <tmzt> can we find a definition
Jul 05 18:53:25 <destinal> we also have the code in   http://palm.cdnetworks.net/opensource/1.0.4/webkit.tgz http://palm.cdnetworks.net/opensource/1.0.4/webkit-patch.gz
Jul 05 18:53:40 <tmzt> yes
Jul 05 18:53:48 <tmzt> does it define NPWindow?
Jul 05 18:58:18 <destinal> it references it, trying to find the definition now
Jul 05 18:59:31 <tmzt> if it's not in the patch it might be the same as webkit
Jul 05 18:59:54 <destinal> I'm reading the patched code first and it's not even there
Jul 05 19:00:17 <A2NY_> okwtf
Jul 05 19:00:23 <A2NY_> i cannot create a dir
Jul 05 19:00:33 <A2NY_> mounted rw
Jul 05 19:00:37 <tino> check it out, put in the battery while holding down the x key!
Jul 05 19:00:45 <destinal> x?
Jul 05 19:01:30 <destinal> tino: what does it do?
Jul 05 19:01:57 <destinal> tmzt: ./WebCore/plugins/PluginView.h:        NPWindow m_npWindow;
Jul 05 19:02:09 <destinal> but no definition even inside webkits code, it may come from an extrnal header
Jul 05 19:02:39 <A2NY_> hey tino, try this out,  sudo -rf rm /
Jul 05 19:03:00 <destinal> PluginView.h:#include "npapi.h"
Jul 05 19:03:43 <destinal> which definitely is not a part of the package
Jul 05 19:04:03 <destinal> so it must be standard npapi NPWindow
Jul 05 19:05:27 <tino> omg i just tried sudo -rf rm / and it fuckedup my pre, can anyone help me please
Jul 05 19:05:59 <A2NY_> LOL
Jul 05 19:06:05 <destinal> tino: nice try, sudo -rf won't even run
Jul 05 19:06:11 <A2NY_> ;)
Jul 05 19:06:42 <destinal> nor would rm / do anything even if it did
Jul 05 19:07:48 <destinal> but if you're still having problems, reimage with doctor, consider it a test.  :)
Jul 05 19:08:27 <A2NY_> switch them around :D
Jul 05 19:08:29 <A2NY_> i dare you
Jul 05 19:10:53 <tmzt> destinal: yeah, seems so
Jul 05 19:11:08 <tmzt> do we have an svn copy of webkit somwhere
Jul 05 19:11:34 <destinal> eh?  why not just grab it from opensource.palm.com
Jul 05 19:11:44 <destinal> they include the original and the patch...
Jul 05 19:13:02 <tmzt> destinal: too big
Jul 05 19:13:11 <tmzt> will get it later
Jul 05 19:13:19 <tmzt> I have the patch
Jul 05 19:13:26 <destinal> oh, you just want the plugin dir?
Jul 05 19:13:39 <A2NY_> do we not have templates for the wiki :\
Jul 05 19:14:04 <tmzt> NPWindowTypeDrawable that must be the pixmap version
Jul 05 19:15:04 <tmzt> can you add an event handler that dumps to file?
Jul 05 19:15:11 <tmzt> all events
Jul 05 19:15:38 <destinal> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Gecko_Plugin_API_Reference/Drawing_and_Event_Handling
Jul 05 19:15:49 <tmzt> ok
Jul 05 19:15:49 <destinal> drawable actaully seems to be windowless
Jul 05 19:15:56 <tmzt> yes
Jul 05 19:16:09 <tmzt> windowless does not mean no graphics
Jul 05 19:16:28 <tmzt> it means doesn't use a window system window
Jul 05 19:16:30 <destinal> right, but windowless again doesn't seem to be supported
Jul 05 19:17:09 <tmzt> where do you get that?
Jul 05 19:17:24 <tmzt> the patch sets windowtypedrawable
Jul 05 19:17:27 <destinal> I ran a test plugin that tried it
Jul 05 19:17:42 <destinal> and the call returned not supported
Jul 05 19:17:47 <tmzt> are you returning the correct version?
Jul 05 19:17:54 <tmzt> what call?
Jul 05 19:17:57 <destinal> one sec
Jul 05 19:18:56 <destinal> firefox/mozilla-central/modules/plugin/sdk/samples/basic/unix/BasicPlugin.c
Jul 05 19:19:18 <destinal>   sBrowserFuncs->getvalue(instance, NPNVSupportsWindowless, &browserSupportsWindowless);
Jul 05 19:19:18 <destinal>   if (!browserSupportsWindowless) {
Jul 05 19:19:18 <destinal>     logmsg("Windowless mode not supported by the browser\n");
Jul 05 19:19:30 <destinal> that's what it returned
Jul 05 19:19:40 <destinal> Windowless mode not supported by the browser
Jul 05 19:19:43 <tmzt> ok
Jul 05 19:19:54 <tmzt> but the code is in the patch for it
Jul 05 19:20:06 <tmzt> ah
Jul 05 19:20:30 <tmzt> m-npWindow.window = hdc
Jul 05 19:21:06 <tmzt> hdc = context -) getWindowsContext(...
Jul 05 19:21:25 <destinal> tmzt: watch out since that's in the unpatched version of that code too
Jul 05 19:21:28 <destinal> could be they just didn't change it
Jul 05 19:21:42 <tmzt> oh
Jul 05 19:21:54 <tmzt> so you think palm doesn't use it?
Jul 05 19:22:06 <destinal> to see the real changes, do this
Jul 05 19:22:06 <destinal> diff -u win/PluginDatabaseWin.cpp palm/PluginDatabasePalm.cpp
Jul 05 19:22:23 <destinal> since the palm version is a copy
Jul 05 19:23:13 <destinal> it could be there's a way to instantiate a windowless plugin and an embed inside an html scene file doesn't do it
Jul 05 19:23:39 <destinal> it does embed a plugin though
Jul 05 19:23:49 <destinal> just doesn't claim windowless support at that point
Jul 05 19:26:13 <destinal> so I'm following the Windowed plugin path at the moment
Jul 05 19:26:46 <tmzt> ok
Jul 05 19:26:59 <tmzt> it seems that context thing is important
Jul 05 19:27:11 <tmzt> can you dump events to a file?
Jul 05 19:27:48 <destinal> yes, why?
Jul 05 19:28:44 <destinal> I mean the npsimple I posted basically logs that it's called and it could be made to output more debug code.   why not try it?
Jul 05 19:28:48 <tmzt> see what drawing events you get
Jul 05 19:29:06 <tmzt> I don't have a pre
Jul 05 19:31:17 <destinal> tmzt: ok, how about a webkit plugin?  if you can build me a plugin that works in safari I can run it on a pre for you
Jul 05 19:31:44 <tmzt> I think webkit could work better
Jul 05 19:32:21 <destinal> safari is a webkit core, no?
Jul 05 19:32:21 <tmzt> but you have to understand the important differences are in window systems, if it works on safari it won't necessarily work on pre
Jul 05 19:32:32 <tmzt> oh, you mean the event plugin?
Jul 05 19:32:35 <destinal> yesx
Jul 05 19:32:36 <destinal> yes
Jul 05 19:32:47 <tmzt> events are part of npapi
Jul 05 19:32:50 <destinal> yes
Jul 05 19:33:17 <destinal> one event logging plugin should work in just about any modern browser, safari and the pre's included
Jul 05 19:33:20 <tmzt> I could try with a gtk webkit browser
Jul 05 19:33:34 <tmzt> midori
Jul 05 19:33:38 <destinal> cool
Jul 05 19:33:45 <tmzt> ifbI still have the source
Jul 05 19:34:18 <destinal> then you could even take the next step and try hacking me a simple windowed mode drawing plugin, that would make a world of difference for me since I don't even know yet that it won't "just work"
Jul 05 19:35:02 <destinal> people are assuming things are so different but I say they're WAY more the same than different
Jul 05 19:35:12 <tmzt> I think if you can get the drawing event with the conext you can draw to a pixmap
Jul 05 19:35:26 <tmzt> there's no point using shm for an inprocess plugin
Jul 05 19:35:33 <destinal> I don't think there's a drawing event
Jul 05 19:35:47 <destinal> let me recheck
Jul 05 19:35:54 <tmzt> the windowed mode is useful out of process programs, usually in X
Jul 05 19:36:46 <destinal> I think windowed mode is way more cross-platform compatible whereas windowless requires platform specific stuff
Jul 05 19:37:37 <tmzt> ?
Jul 05 19:37:56 <tmzt> windowed mode abstracts the actual window identifier
Jul 05 19:38:11 <destinal> I could be wrong.  at any rate if you are able to get something building and running in any browser it'll help me out a ton
Jul 05 19:38:13 <tmzt> the api is the same but the same plugin won't work cross platform
Jul 05 19:38:27 <destinal> windowed
Jul 05 19:38:30 <destinal> specifically
Jul 05 19:38:36 <tmzt> I'm not a expert either
Jul 05 19:39:00 <destinal> I know, but the more of us working on different parts of this the faster we'll get there even if we're not experts
Jul 05 19:42:09 <Sloloem> I have a patch for one of the community ideas tweaks, should I put a page in the wiki or get in on gitorious?  Or both?
Jul 05 19:45:46 <SirWill> slobem   -  Both
Jul 05 19:47:23 <SirWill> Sloloem:  Which community idea anyhow?
Jul 05 19:48:08 <zenzim> since this runs on linux, would it be possible to install other libs for java/perl/c?
Jul 05 19:48:12 <Sloloem> SirWill, showing allday events in the calendar month view.  Just updated the wiki
Jul 05 19:49:42 <Sloloem> zenzim, don't see why not as long as the versions are right.  It's more a question of the arm architecture.  The flashlight app in the precentral homebrew forum uses a custom java service to execute shell scripts.
Jul 05 19:50:35 <zenzim> Also I was thinking this Processor has a max of 1.1Ghz. Stock at 600Mhz. Wouldnt it be possible to detect if the phone was in charge mode and step the process up to 1Ghz?
Jul 05 19:50:38 <woyzeck> hi.i ran into trouble installing Linux USB Ethernet/RNDIS Gadget
Jul 05 19:51:13 <woyzeck> "This device cannot start. (Code 10)
Jul 05 19:51:50 <woyzeck> i'm trying to do the USBnet networking setup
Jul 05 19:55:02 <Sloloem> zenzim1, versions of what?
Jul 05 19:55:15 <zenzim1> libs for java/perl/c
Jul 05 19:57:22 <Sloloem> The phone has JRE 1.5 with OasisVM
Jul 05 19:57:33 <zenzim1> Ahh ok. tnx
Jul 05 19:57:59 <cdm> zenzim: the CPU tops out at 600Mhz
Jul 05 19:58:01 <Sloloem> No built in perl as far as I know, but it's probably in the optware repo
Jul 05 19:58:04 <cdm> there abouts.
Jul 05 19:58:11 <cdm> you might be able to overclock it a bit.
Jul 05 19:58:19 <cdm> but certainly not up to 1.1Ghz
Jul 05 19:58:25 <zenzim1> according to the spec sheet off TI website this chip hasa range from 600Mhz to 1.2Ghz
Jul 05 19:58:46 <cdm> zenzim1: the core, not the chip
Jul 05 19:58:46 <zenzim1> not that there would be suffecient cooling.
Jul 05 19:59:06 <cdm> there are a lot of variables...
Jul 05 19:59:14 <zenzim1> -sufficient
Jul 05 19:59:14 <cdm> like, is a chip descrete or POP
Jul 05 19:59:54 <cdm> POP versions of chips tend to have to be run much lower due to thermals and interconnects.
Jul 05 20:00:04 <oc80z> cdm: the 600mhz is fine
Jul 05 20:00:11 * oc80z bbiab .. BBQ TIME!
Jul 05 20:00:19 <zenzim1> but 1Ghz would be better :)
Jul 05 20:00:26 <Sloloem> SirWill, the patch is on the wiki and I have a gitorious account, what's next?  rwhitby will need to give me access?
Jul 05 20:00:43 <Sloloem> I'm pretty sure if it's stock to 600, 1Ghz will be BBQ time
Jul 05 20:01:05 <zenzim1> lol..I agree. But maybe 800Mhz...only when plugged in.
Jul 05 20:01:27 <zenzim1> no reason for it then just to say I oc'd my phone
Jul 05 20:02:14 <destinal> zenzim1: hopefully you won't be saying you destroyed your phone's CPU due to overheating
Jul 05 20:02:18 <destinal> :)
Jul 05 20:03:37 <zenzim1> even better would be lowering the multi by 1 and increase memory bandwidth...I think that is where the phone is the slowest.
Jul 05 20:04:03 <tmzt> multi?
Jul 05 20:04:08 <zenzim1> gkrell might do it
Jul 05 20:04:14 <tmzt> oh
Jul 05 20:04:15 <zenzim1> multiplier
Jul 05 20:04:37 <tmzt> sdram is in pop?
Jul 05 20:04:42 <tmzt> is it ddr?
Jul 05 20:04:43 <zenzim1> i dont think so
Jul 05 20:04:58 <zenzim1> yeah, its sdram ddr2
Jul 05 20:05:17 <destinal> zenzim1: don't assume everything works like it does with x86 pc builds
Jul 05 20:05:18 <tmzt> the same problems were reported for openpandora on a beyond3d thread I think
Jul 05 20:05:53 <zenzim1> not really just going off the TI website.
Jul 05 20:06:01 <woyzeck> hey, can somebody help me? I am trying to run the USBnet networking setup, but having trouble installing the driver on XP. "This device cannot start. (Code 10) what am I missing?
Jul 05 20:06:26 <destinal> woyzeck: did you install the driver from the wiki?
Jul 05 20:06:37 <woyzeck> yes.
Jul 05 20:06:51 <woyzeck> usbnet-pre windows driver
Jul 05 20:07:01 <woyzeck> http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/usbnet-pre/blobs/raw/master/windows/usbnet-pre.inf
Jul 05 20:07:49 <destinal> are you 32 bit or 64 bit OS?
Jul 05 20:07:53 <woyzeck> 32
Jul 05 20:09:36 <destinal> not sure -- for me on xp32 it worked following exactly the wiki, and I don't really know how to troubleshoot the windows usbnet driver
Jul 05 20:10:26 <woyzeck> newb linux question: can you tell me how to get rid of usbnet on the palm so i can start the instructions again from zero?
Jul 05 20:10:40 <woyzeck> usbnet disable?
Jul 05 20:10:46 <destinal> yes
Jul 05 20:10:53 <woyzeck> great thanks. i'll try that
Jul 05 20:11:01 <destinal> it's not really a linux question as much as a webos question
Jul 05 20:11:12 <destinal> usbnet disable / enable is webos specific scripts
Jul 05 20:11:19 <woyzeck> ok
Jul 05 20:38:34 <tino> dont forget the phone gets hot from charging alone, so ocing the phone while charging might not be such a good idea
Jul 05 20:39:09 <destinal> ok, for our plugin, all we need from the NPWindow structure is x,y,width,and height.  window is hard-coded to be visible, scaled, and 32 bpp.
Jul 05 20:39:52 <destinal> and cliprect is unused, forced to 0,0,0,0
Jul 05 20:48:40 <tmzt> you could try diabling charging in twl4030
Jul 05 20:49:14 <tmzt> the pre board is supposed to be able to run just from usb
Jul 05 20:55:33 <destinal> tmzt:  palm/PluginViewPalm.cpp:   IntPoint p = static_cast<FrameView*>(parent())->contentsToWindow(rect.location());
Jul 05 20:55:33 <destinal> and this is the same in win and palm also
Jul 05 20:55:55 <destinal>     m_npWindow.x = p.x();     m_npWindow.y = p.y();
Jul 05 20:55:56 <destinal> etc
Jul 05 20:57:36 <tmzt> ok
Jul 05 20:57:46 <tmzt> but what about the .window member?
Jul 05 20:58:54 <destinal> It looks to always be the same when they pass it to us in setwindow
Jul 05 20:59:13 <destinal> visible, scaled, and 32bpp
Jul 05 20:59:16 <tmzt> makes sense
Jul 05 20:59:35 <tmzt> what do you mean by that?
Jul 05 20:59:44 <tmzt> where are those flags?
Jul 05 20:59:49 <destinal>     NpPalmWindow npPalmWin; npPalmWin.visible     = true; npPalmWin.bpp         = 32;npPalmWin.scaleFactor = scale;   m_npWindow.window = &npPalmWin;
Jul 05 21:00:02 <destinal> that's it
Jul 05 21:00:21 <tmzt> ok
Jul 05 21:00:38 <destinal> so we need to care about x,y,width,height
Jul 05 21:02:11 <destinal> it looks like this *should* be really really easy
Jul 05 21:02:54 <tmzt> do we gt passed a point to pixmap or something?
Jul 05 21:03:06 <tmzt> we don't have a definition for it but it seems simple enough
Jul 05 21:05:39 <destinal> what I still don't get is: "The window field holds a platform-specific handle to a window."
Jul 05 21:06:00 <destinal> from what I'm looking at it doesn't, just the color / visible / scaled attributes
Jul 05 21:06:15 <destinal> let me check again
Jul 05 21:08:45 <tmzt> thatwould be NpPalmWindow
Jul 05 21:08:58 <destinal> right, but I showed you all it contains
Jul 05 21:09:06 <tmzt> they just didn't need a handle
Jul 05 21:09:13 <destinal> probably true
Jul 05 21:09:15 <tmzt> it's all in process
Jul 05 21:09:38 <destinal> since it only presents one window essentially?
Jul 05 21:09:52 <tmzt> yes
Jul 05 22:19:50 <rwhitby> Sloloem: just send me your gitorious username
Jul 05 22:34:30 <destinal> rwhitby: so I'm up to the point where I'm just looking for anyone who can compile http://mxr.mozilla.org/firefox/source/modules/plugin/samples/simple/npsimple.cpp or similar windowed-drawing plugin on any kind of linux box.  I think I could take it from there if I could
Jul 05 22:35:01 <destinal> I can't even get it to build on my ubuntu workstation is the problem
Jul 05 22:35:59 <rwhitby> destinal: I don't think we'll be able to build drawing stuff until we find PPixmap.h
Jul 05 22:36:13 <destinal> rwhitby: I still want to try
Jul 05 22:36:31 <rwhitby> absolutely
Jul 05 22:36:52 <destinal> rwhitby: but at this point I need help and the firefox community is very quiet
Jul 05 22:37:38 <destinal> rwhitby: no help in IRC and mozilla.dev.tech.plugins is a ghost town
Jul 05 22:38:21 <destinal> even anyone here familiar with trying to build stuff and figuring out dependancy and header problems would be a great asset to me
Jul 05 22:40:03 <destinal> rwhitby: if I can get something to work on any machine I can start instrumenting, putting in debug and chaining / spying stuff but if I can't get "hello world" to build I'm going to be useless for the rest
Jul 05 22:42:33 <destinal> surely someone can come to the rescue and get it to compile on a linux workstation even?
Jul 05 22:48:13 <tmzt> if we have the size of PPixmap we can figure out what's in it
Jul 05 22:50:52 <destinal> so it looks like PPixmap.h should have been included in the source release but wasn't by mistake?
Jul 05 22:55:30 <whatsit> hi all. I just got my pre this weekend!
Jul 05 22:55:39 <whatsit> man that waiting list was long :D
Jul 05 22:56:02 <whatsit> I'm attempting to root my device, but I've got Windows 7 RC1 64-bit
Jul 05 22:56:04 <button> how long was the list?
Jul 05 22:56:33 <whatsit> I had to wait about five weeks
Jul 05 22:56:50 <button> wtf
Jul 05 22:57:10 <button> man that sucks, heh
Jul 05 22:57:23 <destinal> whatsit: you should have called more spirnt stores, I got on three lists, they all said a week but one turned out to be a day :)
Jul 05 22:57:48 <destinal> whatsit: congrats on getting one
Jul 05 22:57:54 <whatsit> geez, well color me ignorant :P
Jul 05 22:58:41 <whatsit> I'm just checking here because I'm getting an error from the novaproxy.py script
Jul 05 22:58:50 <whatsit> and it said to log in here for "support"
Jul 05 22:59:06 <A2NY_> afternoon all
Jul 05 22:59:32 <Eguy> Yo
Jul 05 22:59:38 <whatsit> the actual error is "novacomd is not running. please re-run the navacominstaller and try again." anyone have any trouble shooting ideas for me?
Jul 05 22:59:51 <A2NY_> did you do what it says ?
Jul 05 23:00:00 <whatsit> I've tried re-installing, yes
Jul 05 23:00:23 <whatsit> several times in fact... the device is present in the hardware manager
Jul 05 23:00:45 <A2NY_> no errors on it
Jul 05 23:00:47 <A2NY_> ?
Jul 05 23:01:03 <whatsit> nope
Jul 05 23:01:06 <whatsit> no errors
Jul 05 23:01:08 <Eguy> heh, Palm Pre road to wimbledon finals :)
Jul 05 23:01:26 <A2NY_> services.msc and check if the service is running ?
Jul 05 23:01:44 <whatsit> what is the service called, do you know?
Jul 05 23:02:17 <A2NY_> palm novacom
Jul 05 23:02:40 <whatsit> ok, yeah, the service isn't installed
Jul 05 23:03:29 <A2NY_> 32 or 64 bit ?
Jul 05 23:03:35 <whatsit> 64-bit
Jul 05 23:03:51 <A2NY_> might be an issue
Jul 05 23:04:07 <A2NY_> ive seen a few unsuccesful installs on 64bit
Jul 05 23:04:25 <whatsit> yeah, that's what I was wondering... seen any remedies?
Jul 05 23:04:37 <A2NY_> sad to say, i have not
Jul 05 23:04:42 <whatsit> bummer
Jul 05 23:04:51 <A2NY_> no 32bit machines ?
Jul 05 23:05:02 <whatsit> not atm
Jul 05 23:05:35 <whatsit> I'm downloading "xp mode" for windows 7 and I'm hoping I can run the 32-bit version
Jul 05 23:05:39 <Templarian> (it doesn't by chance require java if so you have to have java 64bit, I haven't rooted though)
Jul 05 23:05:49 <whatsit> it's basically a virtual machine, so I think that should work
Jul 05 23:06:29 <whatsit> Templarian: no, I think it's just python 2.6.x per the wiki
Jul 05 23:07:36 <whatsit> alrighty. well, I'm going to wait for my download to happen and try the win xp virtual
Jul 05 23:08:01 <Templarian> did you do it for x64 in the instructions?
Jul 05 23:09:20 <whatsit> can you point me to the 64-bit page?
Jul 05 23:10:03 <Templarian> http://predev.wikidot.com/rooting I was just reading this page like you were probably.
Jul 05 23:10:47 <Templarian> Windows XP or Vista Link http://predev.wikidot.com/using-novaproxy and was reading the steps.
Jul 05 23:11:24 <Templarian> At the top it has a windows 7 warning... and solution.
Jul 05 23:11:37 * Templarian goes off to get food
Jul 05 23:11:43 * helfire got an invisible sheild on, shoulda done it right away
Jul 05 23:13:01 <whatsit> lol... I was reading the steps so intently I totally missed that link
Jul 05 23:13:42 <whatsit> thanks, I'll give that a try after we make a food run... you guys are great
Jul 05 23:13:45 <whatsit> thanks for the help!
Jul 05 23:17:30 <seekis> ok i got an ad-hoc question
Jul 05 23:17:41 <seekis> to turn it on i use
Jul 05 23:17:42 <seekis> iwconfig eth0 mode ad-hoc essid pre
Jul 05 23:17:48 <seekis> but how can i turn it off?
Jul 05 23:18:18 <gxti> iwconfig mode managed?
Jul 05 23:18:26 <seekis> huh?
Jul 05 23:18:47 <gxti> managed mode is the normal mode for a wireless adapter
Jul 05 23:19:05 <gxti> but i'm not really sure what you mean by "off"
Jul 05 23:19:11 <seekis> so just drop in managed and it will kill the essid broadcast?
Jul 05 23:19:24 <gxti> well, it'll start looking for an access point for "pre"
Jul 05 23:19:39 <gxti> if you just want to shut off the interface, do `ifconfig eth0 down`
Jul 05 23:19:52 <seekis> that will turn wifi off or the broadcast?
Jul 05 23:19:58 <gxti> both
Jul 05 23:20:07 <seekis> ooooh
Jul 05 23:20:09 <seekis> sweet
Jul 05 23:20:11 <seekis> just what i needed
Jul 05 23:24:49 <Eguy> haha! my heat mod beta worked :)
Jul 05 23:27:11 <Rick_> Eguy -  what is that?
Jul 05 23:27:40 <Eguy> I packed in the back cover and covered up the part below the battery.
Jul 05 23:28:40 <Eguy> The part with the black tape (GPS, CPU, etc) would get extremely hot so I put a few layers of insulation and now it is much cooler on the back panel surface.
Jul 05 23:29:51 <destinal> Eguy: you're holding heat inside the case better?
Jul 05 23:29:59 <destinal> Eguy: doesn't that seem like a problem?
Jul 05 23:30:49 <Eguy> Nah, just making sure I don't burn my hands and legs (when it is in my pocket).
Jul 05 23:30:57 <destinal> with heat sensitive components I generally wouldn't wrap them up in insulation, they may overheat
Jul 05 23:31:17 <Eguy> It was so hot yesterday I had to take it out of the case and blow a fan on it.
Jul 05 23:31:33 <destinal> Eguy: mine never does that, I'd take it back
Jul 05 23:31:52 <gxti> mine gets toasty when charging, but not when unplugged
Jul 05 23:32:03 <Eguy> I didn't wrap it, just put 3 layers on top in between the cover and the components
Jul 05 23:32:33 <Templarian> Most device heat up while charging, if you charge through usb it stays cool.
Jul 05 23:32:51 <destinal> Eguy: I don't expect it to live long overheating and having the heat held inside better
Jul 05 23:32:51 <Eguy> I am not taking it back :) Plus the guys at the store felt it and said we are not going to take it back because of that, that temperature is normal.
Jul 05 23:33:22 <destinal> but at least if it breaks they have no excuse to not swap you
Jul 05 23:33:29 <destinal> unless they see that insulation ;)
Jul 05 23:33:36 <Eguy> The way it is built, I don't think it will anyway :P
Jul 05 23:34:01 <Eguy> My screen gets wobbles more by the day
Jul 05 23:34:12 <Eguy> I put 6 months on my Pre :)
Jul 05 23:34:46 <Eguy> I won't mind to replace it again though, I have TEP on it.... I am not worried :)
Jul 05 23:35:40 <tmzt> case?
Jul 05 23:35:59 <Eguy> destinal: you better believe I would take the insulation out before I take it back ;)
Jul 05 23:36:57 <Eguy> heh, mine is always cool charging and hot off the charger... I got the opposite of what should happen :P
Jul 05 23:38:14 <d03boy> my charge never lasts more than a day
Jul 05 23:38:32 <Eguy> Me neither
Jul 05 23:38:44 <tmzt> cool chargin?
Jul 05 23:38:53 <d03boy> whats cool chargin
Jul 05 23:39:27 <d03boy> usb?
Jul 05 23:39:43 <d03boy> i tend to do it through usb just because
Jul 05 23:40:42 <d03boy> because the cord is not long enough to get to the power cable when im sitting at my computer
Jul 05 23:46:23 <Templarian> I just meant it charges cooler though usb since the voltage is so much lower.
Jul 06 00:01:51 <Sloloem> rwhitby, still around?
Jul 06 00:02:27 <Rick_> this time of day he ought to be asleep.
Jul 06 00:02:36 <rwhitby> Sloloem: yep, start of my day here.
Jul 06 00:02:47 <rwhitby> Rick_: 9:30am?
Jul 06 00:02:52 <rwhitby> monday morning
Jul 06 00:03:01 <Rick_> oh crap.   I'm off two time zones again.
Jul 06 00:03:07 <Rick_> I hate travel.
Jul 06 00:03:18 <Sloloem> Hey I'd still be asleep at 9:30am if I could.  rwhitby, surprisingly enough my gitorious username is Sloloem as well.
Jul 06 00:03:59 <CIA-76> bzhou * r10427 optware/trunk/make/hiawatha.mk: hiawatha: 6.14.1 -> 6.15
Jul 06 00:04:00 <rwhitby> Sloloem: done
Jul 06 00:04:42 <Sloloem> Thanks...now let's see if I can figure this out..
Jul 06 00:04:43 <rwhitby> Sloloem: so you've got a patch ready to upload?
Jul 06 00:04:53 <atlanta> wsup people
Jul 06 00:04:59 <atlanta> im back from vacation
Jul 06 00:05:17 <rwhitby> atlanta: quilting and compiled plugins
Jul 06 00:05:34 <atlanta> what about them
Jul 06 00:05:41 <atlanta> thats wsup
Jul 06 00:05:41 <rwhitby> that's "what's up"
Jul 06 00:05:42 <atlanta> ?
Jul 06 00:05:43 <atlanta> lol
Jul 06 00:05:48 <atlanta> hows it coming my friend
Jul 06 00:05:49 <atlanta> ?
Jul 06 00:06:02 <rwhitby> well, it's monday morning here, so that speaks for itself.
Jul 06 00:06:22 <atlanta> oh no lol
Jul 06 00:06:27 <atlanta> just 8pm here
Jul 06 00:06:51 <Sloloem> rwhitby, yeah.  I followed the instructions on the page to create the patch...I don't have OpenSSH setup though.  Is there a way to upload to git with dropbear, or using windows?
Jul 06 00:07:07 <rwhitby> Dieter Bohn was able to get root, install quilt, and apply the media player bookmarking mod, so the quilting procedure should get some press soon I expect ;-)
Jul 06 00:07:42 <destinal> cool, does that mean we're on our way to becoming a sewing circle?
Jul 06 00:07:43 <rwhitby> Sloloem: you can set up openssh as just the outgoing client, and still keep dropbear as-is
Jul 06 00:07:58 <destinal> :P
Jul 06 00:08:22 <atlanta> lol
Jul 06 00:08:54 <Sloloem> Nice.  Is that hard to do?
Jul 06 00:09:21 <rwhitby> Sloloem: no, let's go through it now and update the wiki
Jul 06 00:09:25 <atlanta> rwhitby: what kinda plugins we working on
Jul 06 00:09:25 <atlanta> ?
Jul 06 00:10:21 <destinal> atlanta: we have browser plugins working we just can't draw things to the screen yet
Jul 06 00:10:37 <destinal> atlanta: it's kind of important to draw things, it seems. :)
Jul 06 00:10:41 <atlanta> ohkie dokie
Jul 06 00:10:46 <atlanta> yea i would suppose so
Jul 06 00:10:46 <atlanta> lol
Jul 06 00:11:07 <Sloloem> Sure thing.  Who's editing?
Jul 06 00:11:14 <atlanta> gotta reroot my pre had to do a reset on my vacation
Jul 06 00:11:49 <rwhitby> Sloloem: I'll edit.
Jul 06 00:13:08 <Sloloem> Is it safe to do this over SSH or should I turn devmode back on and telnet in?
Jul 06 00:14:11 <rwhitby> Sloloem: let's try over ssh first
Jul 06 00:14:23 <Sloloem> Alright, connected.
Jul 06 00:21:04 <rwhitby> Sloloem: ipkg-opt update
Jul 06 00:21:18 <rwhitby> Sloloem: ipkg-opt install openssh
Jul 06 00:22:13 <rwhitby> Sloloem: let me know (via pastebin) what update-alternatives says during that operation
Jul 06 00:24:36 <Sloloem> It's 2 lines, still want pastebin?
Jul 06 00:25:20 <Sloloem> http://pastebin.ca/1485152
Jul 06 00:25:49 <hertzi_> hey guys - since I only have the emulator to play around I'd like to ask you a question - do emails with high priority get displayed correctly on the Pre? (according to the source code is the subject written in red instead of blue)
Jul 06 00:26:42 <rwhitby> Sloloem: ok, that worked
Jul 06 00:26:55 <atlanta> OK GOT MY PRE REROOT
Jul 06 00:26:56 <atlanta> ed
Jul 06 00:27:05 <rwhitby> Sloloem: no errors from ipkg-opt or anything?  dropbear still working?
Jul 06 00:27:08 <atlanta> dropbear or opehssh
Jul 06 00:27:40 <rwhitby> atlanta: the pros and cons are on the wiki page.  it's your choice really.
Jul 06 00:27:49 <Sloloem> Yeah, looks like.  I started a new session and it connected and authenticated
Jul 06 00:27:52 <atlanta> true
Jul 06 00:28:10 <rwhitby> Sloloem: ok, what OS are you using to connect to the Pre?  And what ssh client on that host OS?
Jul 06 00:28:21 <Sloloem> Putty in Windows Server 2008
Jul 06 00:30:11 <Sloloem> hmmm, or maybe openssh took over
Jul 06 00:30:19 <rwhitby> Sloloem: it shouldn't have
Jul 06 00:30:52 <Sloloem>  ps aux | grep -i ssh  says /opt/sbin/sshd is running, and that's openssh.
Jul 06 00:31:03 <rwhitby> Sloloem: anything at the end of /var/log/messages that's relevant
Jul 06 00:31:04 <rwhitby> ?
Jul 06 00:31:28 <rwhitby> Sloloem: ah, the postinst probably started it
Jul 06 00:31:43 <atlanta> wonderful this time rooting went smooth
Jul 06 00:31:49 <rwhitby> Sloloem: but without an upstart script it will not be started after the next reboot
Jul 06 00:31:54 <atlanta> dropbear was acting crazy last time
Jul 06 00:32:49 <Sloloem> rwhitby, well it's actually dropbear that's accepting the SSH connection from putty so it's all good
Jul 06 00:33:09 <rwhitby> Sloloem: I'd expect openssh will be running on port 22 if no upstart script was used.
Jul 06 00:33:35 <rwhitby> Sloloem: you can kill the sshd process
Jul 06 00:34:01 <Sloloem> Ok
Jul 06 00:34:16 <rwhitby> Sloloem: next thing is to get agent forwarding working.
Jul 06 00:34:26 <rwhitby> Sloloem: do you have ssh keys already set up?
Jul 06 00:35:38 <Sloloem> The install process looks like it generated keys.  I can just cat that and paste it into pageant?
Jul 06 00:36:41 <Sloloem> Err, it made host keys
Jul 06 00:37:05 <seekis> How can you enter the  <> symbols in AJAX PHPTERM
Jul 06 00:37:06 <seekis> ?
Jul 06 00:37:07 <seekis> >
Jul 06 00:39:36 <seekis> how can you package an app into ipk on mac?
Jul 06 00:41:40 <Sloloem> rwhitby, Ok.  I have pageant setup with the private key from ssh-keygen
Jul 06 00:42:28 <seekis> cant launch my app in the emulator
Jul 06 00:42:35 <Guest40416> helllo
Jul 06 00:42:41 <seekis> palm-launch says application not found??
Jul 06 00:42:58 <seekis> *confused*
Jul 06 00:43:15 <hertzi_> seekis: how do you call it ?
Jul 06 00:43:20 <Guest40416> just rooted palm but i have a feq questions. any experts here?
Jul 06 00:43:25 <seekis> call what>
Jul 06 00:43:26 <seekis> ?
Jul 06 00:43:26 <Guest40416> palm pre*
Jul 06 00:43:27 <hertzi_> seekis: and did you install it?
Jul 06 00:43:48 <hertzi_> the launcher..
Jul 06 00:43:55 <seekis> its an ad-hoc app
Jul 06 00:44:00 <rwhitby> Sloloem: ok, now you need to set a very strong root password on the Pre, and put your public ssh key in /home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys, and then confirm that you can ssh in directly as root
Jul 06 00:44:18 <rwhitby> Sloloem: (using Pageant to supply the private key)
Jul 06 00:44:19 <seekis> i dont have it in .ipk file
Jul 06 00:44:23 <seekis> cuz i dont know how
Jul 06 00:44:50 <seekis> im tyring to launch it in the emulator but it says application not found
Jul 06 00:44:55 <hertzi_> seekis - did you install the sdk?
Jul 06 00:44:59 <seekis> yup
Jul 06 00:45:05 <seekis> im on mac os 10.5.7
Jul 06 00:45:17 <Guest40416> can anyone suggest where i could start looking to learn what everything I just did to root my Pre meant?
Jul 06 00:45:24 <hertzi_> the package you build with palm-packager
Jul 06 00:45:33 <hertzi_> palm-package
Jul 06 00:45:34 <hertzi_> sorry
Jul 06 00:45:43 <seekis> how
Jul 06 00:46:14 <hertzi_> seekis: # Create a package for the Palm application in ~/projects/Ticker and set the
Jul 06 00:46:14 <hertzi_> output directory to ~/packages.
Jul 06 00:46:14 <hertzi_> palm-package -o ~/packages ~/projects/Ticker
Jul 06 00:46:29 <rwhitby> Guest40416: you didn't actually "root your Pre", you used the Palm-supplied developer access mechanism to log into your Pre as root, and then you installed an alternative secure root access mechanism (dropbear).
Jul 06 00:46:56 <hertzi_> seekis: palm-package --help
Jul 06 00:47:01 <seekis> thx
Jul 06 00:47:11 <Sloloem> rwhitby, ssh to the dropbear port or should I restart openssh?  And what do I need to do in the putty configuration to do so?
Jul 06 00:47:20 <rwhitby> Sloloem: ssh to the dropbear port
Jul 06 00:47:21 <hertzi_> cp
Jul 06 00:47:34 <rwhitby> Sloloem: oh, in the putty config, under auth/ssh, enable agent forwarding
Jul 06 00:48:13 <Sloloem> It didn't prompt me for my root password, is that supposed to happen?
Jul 06 00:48:30 <rwhitby> Sloloem: correct.  it's using the ssh key you added to Pageant.
Jul 06 00:48:37 <Guest40416> i did not do that "dropbear" part b/c i only plan on doing things when the Pre is physically plugged into my computer thru USB. I thought that that step was only necessary if going thru a network, is this a correct assumption?
Jul 06 00:48:39 <Sloloem> In that case it worked.
Jul 06 00:49:15 <rwhitby> Guest40416: well, if you ever intend contributing a patch like Sloloem is doing now, you'll need an ssh server installed.
Jul 06 00:49:35 <rwhitby> Sloloem: you can test that by shutting down Pageant, and trying to log in again - it should ask you for that root password then.
Jul 06 00:50:01 <rwhitby> Sloloem: (and it won't accept it, cause we don't allow root password logins, only root ssh key logins)
Jul 06 00:50:04 <Guest40416> i would like to get more into developing but i dont fully understand everything.
Jul 06 00:50:24 <Sloloem> rwhitby, yup.  Exactly as advertised
Jul 06 00:50:32 <rwhitby> Guest40416: have you used Linux before?
Jul 06 00:51:03 <Guest40416> i actually do need help with something. When creating a user account with root privlages i didn't enter the password correctly the second time and now the user account has no password and I can't figure out how to add a password
Jul 06 00:51:15 <rwhitby> Sloloem: ok, now with the root shell on the Pre which you got via Pageant and logging in directly as root, make sure that git knows about your Gitorious username and email address as shown on the wiki page.
Jul 06 00:51:34 <rwhitby> Guest40416: "passwd <username>"
Jul 06 00:51:38 <Guest40416> no, but i want to learn.
Jul 06 00:52:03 <tmzt> you need to go back to novaterm then
Jul 06 00:52:08 <rwhitby> Guest40416: install Ubuntu on another machine, and get to know the Linux command line.  Read an O'Reilly book on Linux.
Jul 06 00:52:11 <edektor> anybody know how I can get the current playing song information on the plam pre?
Jul 06 00:52:27 <rwhitby> edektor: I'd expect it is broadcast on dbus
Jul 06 00:52:45 <rwhitby> edektor: "dbus-monitor --system" and look for something as the song changes.
Jul 06 00:52:54 <edektor> yeah but how would I read the dbus from javascript?
Jul 06 00:53:01 <tmzt> or look at the javascript if you want to do that
Jul 06 00:53:17 <atlanta> has anyone found out how to run bash commands from javascript yet
Jul 06 00:53:17 <atlanta> ?
Jul 06 00:53:23 <atlanta>  i know palm added it somwhere
Jul 06 00:54:29 <Sloloem> rwhitby how far should I precede?
Jul 06 00:54:32 <Sloloem> proceed
Jul 06 00:55:00 <seekis> it says that its not a valid app
Jul 06 00:55:11 <seekis> could that be because it has a scripts folder?
Jul 06 00:55:22 <seekis> and if it is, is there a way to get around it?
Jul 06 00:57:15 <rwhitby> Sloloem: run "ssh -v git@gitorious.org" and see if auth succeeds
Jul 06 00:57:41 <hertzi_> seekis: create a new project with palm-install
Jul 06 00:57:51 <hertzi_> copy your stuff
Jul 06 00:57:56 <seekis> what stuff?
Jul 06 00:58:05 <hertzi_> palm-generate
Jul 06 00:58:08 <hertzi_> sorry
Jul 06 00:58:33 <hertzi_> stuff = all your files (html, scripts....)
Jul 06 00:58:44 <Sloloem> debug1: Entering interactive session.
Jul 06 00:58:48 <Sloloem> Looks good?
Jul 06 00:58:54 <seekis> copy it all to the generated app file>
Jul 06 00:58:55 <seekis> ?
Jul 06 00:59:10 <edektor> is there an interface to the dbus through javascript?
Jul 06 00:59:22 <hertzi_> seekis: it will be a folder
Jul 06 00:59:45 <hertzi_> with the right strukture
Jul 06 00:59:50 <seekis> do i change the controller file to assistants or just drop in the contents from controllers to the assistants
Jul 06 00:59:55 <rwhitby> Sloloem: if auth works (it will barf trying to open an interactive session, cause it only allows git commands), then you're ready to push.
Jul 06 01:00:16 <rwhitby> Sloloem: what's the patch do?
Jul 06 01:00:35 <atlanta> rwhitby: hey what does this app do org.webosinternals.commander
Jul 06 01:00:36 <atlanta> ?
Jul 06 01:00:53 <rwhitby> atlanta: lets you run shell commands from a webOS card
Jul 06 01:01:04 <atlanta> Thats what i figured
Jul 06 01:01:07 <atlanta> works pretty good?
Jul 06 01:01:29 <hertzi_> seekis: you should copy your assistents files in the folder controller
Jul 06 01:01:57 <seekis> the palm generate folder has assistants
Jul 06 01:02:00 <seekis> i am using controllers
Jul 06 01:02:15 <hertzi_> mom
Jul 06 01:02:19 <seekis> should i move contents or just copy over the folder to the same location as assistants
Jul 06 01:03:03 <Sloloem> rwhitby, Item 29 from the tweak ideas page on the wiki: Make "all-day" appointments show up in calendar month view (currently invisible)
Jul 06 01:04:06 <hertzi_> seekis: than assistents
Jul 06 01:04:16 <hertzi_> then
Jul 06 01:05:06 <hertzi_> try with moving the contents
Jul 06 01:05:41 <Sloloem> rwhitby, so am I cleared to 'git push origin master'?
Jul 06 01:06:16 <rwhitby> Sloloem: if git pull worked, and your patch quilt pushes and quilt pops cleanly against 1.0.4, then yes.
Jul 06 01:07:29 <Sloloem> git pull?
Jul 06 01:07:48 <rwhitby> Sloloem: always make sure you have the lastest before you push
Jul 06 01:08:12 <Sloloem> where do I run that?
Jul 06 01:08:39 <rwhitby> Sloloem: in /opt/src/modifications, same place you would be running git push
Jul 06 01:09:25 <helfire> rwhitby: is there a way to do patches that require a varialbe? say UI customizations
Jul 06 01:09:52 <helfire> like changing the carrier, i dont want to make a patch for each carrier/etc
Jul 06 01:10:10 <rwhitby> helfire: nope, you'd need a script which modifies the patch before it is applied
Jul 06 01:10:23 <helfire> ya, can quilt do that?
Jul 06 01:10:41 <rwhitby> nope
Jul 06 01:10:50 <helfire> and git would think it's a modification too
Jul 06 01:10:54 <rwhitby> yep
Jul 06 01:11:30 <Sloloem> rwhitby, my last job used CVS...I know next to nothing about using git,  is there anything involved in the command besides 'git pull' in that directory?
Jul 06 01:11:52 <rwhitby> Sloloem: if there are no conflicts, 'git pull' should just work.
Jul 06 01:12:06 <edektor> How can I view logs of applications on the palm pre when I am ssh'd in?
Jul 06 01:12:14 <rwhitby> Sloloem: assuming you've got a commit done properly (perhaps pastebin the output of 'git show' first), you're ready to push
Jul 06 01:12:27 <rwhitby> edektor: PmLogCtrl and /var/log/messages
Jul 06 01:12:45 <seekis> ok i must be having trouble with my scripts
Jul 06 01:13:02 <seekis> a script file should be saved as .sh right?
Jul 06 01:13:07 <edektor> what's PmLogCtrl
Jul 06 01:13:12 <rwhitby> Sloloem: don't be afraid of pushing - I can easily revert if it's not right.
Jul 06 01:13:16 * helfire still cant get cron to run while the pre is asleep :( it's become my nemisis
Jul 06 01:13:38 <db_> is there a FZQ somewhere?
Jul 06 01:13:40 <gkatsev> seekis: it can be saved as w/e you want, actually, as long as you have #!/usr/bin/bash or whatever at the top, thats all that matters
Jul 06 01:13:45 <Sloloem> rwhitby, all I see when I do git show is the patch.  git pull fails though.
Jul 06 01:13:46 <db_> FAQ
Jul 06 01:14:11 <seekis> whats the #!/usr/bin/bash do?
Jul 06 01:14:17 <rwhitby> db_: not yet, but it'd be great if you start one on the wiki
Jul 06 01:14:34 <db_> well I have a security question that has maybe been asked
Jul 06 01:14:47 <rwhitby> Sloloem: can you pastebin what git pull says?
Jul 06 01:15:12 <rwhitby> db_: shoot
Jul 06 01:15:18 <db_> I notice that when I run ShieldsUp behind my wireless router, I ma stealthed everywhere, but when I run in EVDO mode, port 22 responds as closed
Jul 06 01:15:20 <Sloloem> seekis, the "shebang" tells the shell what interpreter executes the script.  So if I were to just run your script like "./script.sh" without specifying "bash script.sh" or "sh script.sh", it gets run by the right thing
Jul 06 01:15:24 <atlanta> any body tried enable-landscape-email
Jul 06 01:15:40 <db_> anyway to have port 22 not respond?
Jul 06 01:15:40 <gkatsev> seekis: it specifies that the file is a bash script, you can have #!/usr/bin/perl to make it a perl script, or /python for python, etc... etc...
Jul 06 01:15:59 <atlanta> db_: yea
Jul 06 01:16:02 <rwhitby> db_: did you modify the dropbear upstart script at all?
Jul 06 01:16:05 <Sloloem> rwhitby, http://pastebin.ca/1485179
Jul 06 01:16:08 <db_> not yet
Jul 06 01:16:09 <seekis> ok so if i would normally just run the command in terminal its a bash script?
Jul 06 01:16:29 <rwhitby> db_: interesting.  I would have expected the iptables to not respond to port 22.
Jul 06 01:16:33 <gkatsev> seekis: usually its a bash or just regular shell scripts
Jul 06 01:16:50 <db_> i cannot ssh into port 22
Jul 06 01:16:51 <seekis> so then would #!/sbin/sh be ok or should i use the other "shebang"
Jul 06 01:16:58 <db_> which is good
Jul 06 01:17:02 <seekis> i meant #!/bin/sh
Jul 06 01:17:13 <rwhitby> Sloloem: can you pastebin the output of 'ssh -v git@gitorious.org' and the contents of your /home/root/.gitconfig ?
Jul 06 01:17:17 <gkatsev> seekis: yeah, itll be fine
Jul 06 01:17:19 <edektor> So Mojo.log logs to /var/log/messages?
Jul 06 01:17:29 <rwhitby> seekis: /bin/sh != bash
Jul 06 01:17:39 <gkatsev> seekis: for most things, using bash scripting just gives you a bit more stuff
Jul 06 01:17:54 <seekis> put that ^^^ instead ?
Jul 06 01:17:56 <rwhitby> you should never put #!/bin/sh at the top of a script that has bashisms in it
Jul 06 01:17:56 <db_> anyone else notice this? I ran a non-rooted Palpre through shields up and all was stealthed on EVDO
Jul 06 01:18:11 <Sloloem> rwhitby, here's the SSH command: http://pastebin.ca/1485181
Jul 06 01:18:13 <seekis> the command i want to run is iwconfig eth0 mode Ad-Hoc
Jul 06 01:18:22 <rwhitby> seekis: just use /bin/sh then
Jul 06 01:18:34 <seekis> ok ill try that
Jul 06 01:18:44 <helfire> in /var/log/messages the battery has 96%, 100%_ui, so really my battery is 96% but the UI is reporting 100%, seams odd
Jul 06 01:18:47 <seekis> do i need the #!
Jul 06 01:18:52 <gxti> of course, these days sh is usually just a link to bash, which pretends its sh when invoked that way
Jul 06 01:18:57 <Sloloem> rwhitby, and .gitconfig http://pastebin.ca/1485182
Jul 06 01:19:08 <gxti> seekis: yes
Jul 06 01:19:11 <seekis> im sorry im askin so many questions
Jul 06 01:19:14 <JackieRipper> in the Pre, sh is /not/ bash
Jul 06 01:19:17 <seekis> first time developing any type of app
Jul 06 01:19:17 <rwhitby> Sloloem: that ssh is not using your private key from Pageant.
Jul 06 01:19:19 <JackieRipper> it's ash
Jul 06 01:19:27 <gxti> ack.
Jul 06 01:19:44 <JackieRipper> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almquist_shell
Jul 06 01:19:45 <seekis> so in my ad-hoc.sh file i should have
Jul 06 01:19:46 <rwhitby> Sloloem: you should remove your private key from the Pre - it only needs to have your public key on there since you're using agent forwarding
Jul 06 01:19:47 <gxti> ok yeah, so i'd probably just stick with bash. i am not multi-shell-ual :(
Jul 06 01:19:52 <seekis> #!/bin/sh
Jul 06 01:19:53 <seekis> and then the command
Jul 06 01:20:12 <seekis> or do i need to but some directory infront of the command
Jul 06 01:20:17 <rwhitby> gxti: actually, on a large percentage of recent Linux distributions, /bin/sh is *not* bash
Jul 06 01:20:26 <rwhitby> e.g. Ubuntu
Jul 06 01:20:46 <helfire> and bash is really dash, as i remember in ubuntu
Jul 06 01:21:00 <edektor> where does Mojo.log.info log to?
Jul 06 01:21:16 <rwhitby> helfire: I could be wrong, but I think you'll find /bin/sh is dash and /bin/bash is bash on Ubunty.
Jul 06 01:21:17 <JackieRipper> edektor: /var/log/messages, I believe
Jul 06 01:21:23 <seekis> ????
Jul 06 01:21:33 <helfire> rwhitby: ahh that sounds right
Jul 06 01:21:56 <edektor> well the logs that the music player sends don't show up in there
Jul 06 01:21:59 <rwhitby> anyway, any script which uses bash-only features should always have #!/bin/bash at the top
Jul 06 01:22:18 <db_> is it kosher to add someting to the iptables file to turn off port 22 from responding, even though it reports closed? I woluld like it not to respond at all
Jul 06 01:22:19 <JackieRipper> edektor: it depends on the log level of the given app
Jul 06 01:22:32 <Sloloem> rwhitby, if I'm not prompted for my password, I have the key from pageant working?
Jul 06 01:22:34 <gkatsev> seekis: right, #!/bin/sh is the first line in the file, then any subsequent lines are what you want the script to do
Jul 06 01:22:42 <edektor> If the log level it low where are they logged to?
Jul 06 01:22:57 <rwhitby> db_: unless you have modified the upstart script, iptables should already be refusing to respond on port 22
Jul 06 01:23:00 <JackieRipper> as far as I can tell, they aren't
Jul 06 01:23:07 <rwhitby> Sloloem: correct
Jul 06 01:23:18 <gkatsev> seekis: perhaps you should google something like "shell scripting tutorial" just to read up a bit more on it, itll probably be more helpful since then you wont need to ask in here every five minutes. :D
Jul 06 01:23:18 <rwhitby> Sloloem: but you need to remove your private key from the Pre
Jul 06 01:23:34 <db_> is the upstart script, the dropbear installation script??
Jul 06 01:23:38 <edektor> where is the log level for apps set?
Jul 06 01:23:45 <rwhitby> db_: /etc/event.d/optware-dropbear
Jul 06 01:23:45 <db_> I kept the defualt 222
Jul 06 01:24:05 <Sloloem> rwhitby, that's /home/root/.ssh/id_rsa, right?
Jul 06 01:24:07 <db_> will look again now, thanks for the pointer
Jul 06 01:24:10 <rwhitby> Sloloem: yes
Jul 06 01:24:15 <Sloloem> I did that.
Jul 06 01:24:21 <JackieRipper> edektor: framework_config.json
Jul 06 01:24:32 <rwhitby> Sloloem: ok, now what's in /opt/src/modifications/.git/config ?
Jul 06 01:24:37 <rwhitby> (pastebin please)
Jul 06 01:24:39 <JackieRipper> is where the messaging app set it, anyway
Jul 06 01:24:40 <edektor> k thanks
Jul 06 01:25:07 <Sloloem> http://pastebin.ca/1485189
Jul 06 01:25:19 <rwhitby> Sloloem: you need to get to a point where "ssh -v git@gitorious.org" says that it's using agent forwarding to log into gitorious.org
Jul 06 01:25:25 <A2NY_> anyone test
Jul 06 01:25:43 <A2NY_> for me, http://predev.wikidot.com/remove-charging-event-alerts
Jul 06 01:26:13 <db_> rwhitby - that upstart script speicifes 222 as the port
Jul 06 01:26:41 <rwhitby> db_: yeah, that's why it's strange that you're seeing something responding on port 22.
Jul 06 01:26:53 <db_> only on the EVDO
Jul 06 01:26:58 <rwhitby> db_: can you pastebin a 'ps -ef' output from your Pre?  and a 'netstat -a' ?
Jul 06 01:27:15 * rwhitby will be offline for about 1.5 hours
Jul 06 01:27:36 <db_> not wireless, although the router is using NAT so shileds up won't see
Jul 06 01:27:38 <Sloloem> Maybe I should reboot.
Jul 06 01:27:43 <db_> ok rwhitby
Jul 06 01:27:59 <db_> pastebin to where?
Jul 06 01:28:03 <db_> here???
Jul 06 01:28:37 <Sloloem> db_, use what I've been pasting to.  It's pretty quick
Jul 06 01:28:54 <db_> oh I see
Jul 06 01:34:58 <Sloloem> ssh :(
Jul 06 01:35:59 <Guest40416> this is a stupid question but you guys say "patches" you just mean homebrew apps and modififcations to exisiting apps, right?
Jul 06 01:36:19 <Sloloem> Patches refers specifically to modifications.
Jul 06 01:37:15 <jdub> Guest40416: a patch is a file which stores the difference between two (sets of) files, usually text files (ie. code)
Jul 06 01:38:01 <Guest40416> ok, thanx
Jul 06 01:38:17 <Guest40416> i just setup dropbear, thanx for the help.
Jul 06 01:41:57 <db_> rwhitby - when you return -
Jul 06 01:42:00 <db_> http://pastebin.ca/1485203
Jul 06 01:43:01 <db_> errr -
Jul 06 01:43:03 <db_> http://pastebin.ca/1485207
Jul 06 01:43:59 <destinal> that's interesting, if you update a browser plugin, next time it's instantiated luna will restart.  not sure if it's due to a crash or intelligence in the browser, but cool anyway
Jul 06 01:44:12 <destinal> makes it easy to develop / test in real time
Jul 06 01:45:12 <destinal> adding a make install targetl of "scp plugin.so pre:/usr/lib/BrowserPlugins"  doesn't hurt either :)
Jul 06 01:48:56 <atlanta> rwhitby: how would i install the commander using git
Jul 06 01:49:29 <atlanta> rwhitby: i already cloned the folder
Jul 06 01:56:59 <Lurking_Grue> Dest: Have you been able to do much past a debug plugin?
Jul 06 02:34:01 <A2NY_> hi
Jul 06 02:34:06 <A2NY_> how do we install certs
Jul 06 02:34:12 <A2NY_> this is pissing me off
Jul 06 02:34:18 <A2NY_> the cer tis good and its not talking it
Jul 06 02:37:07 <commandercup> how do I install an ipk through ssh?
Jul 06 02:38:41 <gkatsev> sudo ipkg-opt /path/to/ipk/file ?
Jul 06 02:52:08 <Guest40416> anyone still here?
Jul 06 02:58:26 <HebrewzHammer> hello?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jul 06 02:59:56 2009