**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 17 02:59:57 2009 Jul 17 03:00:08 JackieRipper: got it Jul 17 03:00:25 JackieRipper: back to code review mode for a bit ... Jul 17 03:00:32 x and y were the original names of the variable Jul 17 03:00:36 JackieRipper: (for me) Jul 17 03:00:36 s Jul 17 03:00:48 so basicly for a native terminal we're just waiting for bash to get ported to NPAPI Jul 17 03:00:49 ? Jul 17 03:01:16 well more like screen Jul 17 03:01:17 but Jul 17 03:01:18 >.> Jul 17 03:02:27 destinal: which osx distro are we using for things like glib.h when compiling the plugins on osx? macports or fink? Jul 17 03:02:39 oh Jul 17 03:02:49 I haven't tried mac yet, you get to be the victim Jul 17 03:03:00 or do I just need to set an include to a built-in mac include dir? Jul 17 03:03:18 you'll have to cross-compile for linux-x86 though for the emu or linux-arm of course Jul 17 03:03:26 ok, cool. I've never compiled anything on osx before :-) Jul 17 03:03:39 rwhitby: I dunno, your mac is new.. ;) Jul 17 03:03:41 j/k Jul 17 03:04:16 sorry my brain's interfaces are turned down to idiot mode from my day job. I'll try to tweak the gain a bit Jul 17 03:04:35 maybe I'll just switch to the ubuntu vm for compiling the plugin, and palm-install it from there across to the emulator vm Jul 17 03:04:45 (or scp it I mean) Jul 17 03:04:54 rwhitby: yeah I'd do ubuntu vm Jul 17 03:04:56 for now Jul 17 03:05:03 I have my linux and Pre VM's both on a host-only secondary adapter in virtualbox :-) Jul 17 03:05:47 the ubuntu vm is busy setting up an OE toolchain so I can look at replicating the Pre rootfs and then start doing homebrew Pre rootfs ... Jul 17 03:05:52 oh. and you have linux vm talking to pre vm for novacom? Jul 17 03:05:59 or no Jul 17 03:06:14 well you can always just copy stuff linux to mac to pre duh Jul 17 03:06:14 destinal: not yet, but should be able to, since those two secondary adapters are both on the same subnet Jul 17 03:06:28 or that Jul 17 03:06:42 rwhitby: cdt to build plugins? Jul 17 03:06:43 JackieRipper: The $(some command here) syntax is new to me. I often used backticks (`) where you are doing this. I guess your form is just "interpolation" of an actual command Jul 17 03:06:43 I don't know how to make novacom work to the emu without the port forwards in vbox yet Jul 17 03:06:49 destinal: or maybe I'll just get the Pre emulator to nfs mount from mac like the linux vm does Jul 17 03:07:17 but that's only important for the palm plugin Jul 17 03:07:22 tmzt: yep, but in ubuntu I'll just use the makefile Jul 17 03:07:37 for the mojo stuff installation uses novacom Jul 17 03:07:40 palm plugin? Jul 17 03:07:55 tmzt: yeah there's a plugin for authoring mojo apps in eclipse Jul 17 03:07:57 it's slick Jul 17 03:08:10 one click install + launch Jul 17 03:08:11 destinal: add a second host-only adapter to virtualbox, and then use the real port numbers on the IP address of the emulator on that interface Jul 17 03:08:11 bclancy: it's nice, as it allows for nested commands: var=$(some_command arg1 $(some_other_command)) Jul 17 03:08:14 okay Jul 17 03:08:22 using webkit? Jul 17 03:08:36 rwhitby: but how do you repoint novacom, or does it do some kind of broadcast traffic thing? Jul 17 03:08:40 JackieRipper: when I used backtics with wc -l, I'd often get a tab before the number or something similar. Just make sure you have a real "1" and not something with spaces - you're probably ok - I think I just need to read the manpage here Jul 17 03:08:41 and detect Jul 17 03:09:07 I know scp is easy Jul 17 03:09:15 but novacom I'm fuzzy on Jul 17 03:09:24 bclancy: the way aroubd that is to not quote the variable.... but I tested and got no spaces Jul 17 03:10:04 JackieRipper: good, that's the only thing I was worried about Jul 17 03:10:17 rwhitby: for ubuntu you need packages libglib2.0-dev libx11-dev Jul 17 03:10:27 bclancy: are you making changes? Should I? Jul 17 03:10:32 destinal: I've already built it in ubuntu the other day Jul 17 03:10:38 ah cool Jul 17 03:10:48 JackieRipper: you can remove the quotes around $count in [ "$count" -gt 1 ] Jul 17 03:10:49 destinal: remember I reported the compiler warning? Jul 17 03:10:57 bclancy: just did Jul 17 03:11:00 rwhitby: now I do :) Jul 17 03:11:13 destinal: I think nova stuff can take a hostname Jul 17 03:11:17 also in check, when it counts the characters in the username Jul 17 03:11:20 JackieRipper: You should make the changes until I fully understand the script Jul 17 03:11:26 alrighty Jul 17 03:11:33 so you'd give the pre a static IP on vboxnet0 and then use that hostname Jul 17 03:11:43 destinal: what was the compiler message if you left out headers? who said that? Jul 17 03:11:54 ah Jul 17 03:11:57 I'll have to try that Jul 17 03:12:16 tmzt: PuffTheMagic did, there are missing headers Jul 17 03:12:17 destinal: a secondary host-only subnet works very well with multiple VMs on virtualbox Jul 17 03:12:28 if you don't use my hacked header which comments out stuff we need Jul 17 03:12:36 destinal: building what? Jul 17 03:12:40 PuffTheMagic: ? Jul 17 03:12:41 basicplugin Jul 17 03:12:41 destinal: keep the primary network as dhcp and nat, and add a secondary adapter on each vm as host-only and static Jul 17 03:13:24 tmzt: what? Jul 17 03:14:07 rwhitby: is that what the subinterfaces on the default vm do>? Jul 17 03:14:07 i am using some of the Pirahana functions Jul 17 03:14:09 ? Jul 17 03:14:21 I was wondering Jul 17 03:14:43 destinal: the VMs usually have one adapter. just enable a second, and set it up for host-only on vboxnet0 Jul 17 03:14:44 PuffTheMagic: what happened when you tried to build with missing headers and what where you building? Jul 17 03:14:58 rwhitby: cool, I'll give it a shot Jul 17 03:15:16 tmzt: i get an error Jul 17 03:15:17 destinal: then set up that eth1 in each VM as a static IP on the 192.168.56.x subnet Jul 17 03:15:24 the host is 192.168.56.1 Jul 17 03:15:43 add the static IPs for the guests in /etc/hosts on the host, and you've got named access to ports on the guests Jul 17 03:15:43 JackieRipper: You could write a "logEcho" function to encapsulate things like the following: Jul 17 03:15:45 log "Removing existing Package file: " Jul 17 03:15:46 echo -n "Removing existing Package file: " Jul 17 03:15:57 PuffTheMagic: yes, what error? Jul 17 03:16:21 heh, yeah, I thought about it... the logging was almost an afterthought, which is why it's handled the way it is Jul 17 03:16:26 BasicPlugin.cpp:198: error: no matching function for call to 'PColor32::PColor32(int, int, int, int)' Jul 17 03:16:26 /usr/include/PContext.h:5: note: candidates are: PColor32::PColor32() Jul 17 03:16:26 /usr/include/PContext.h:5: note: PColor32::PColor32(const PColor32&) Jul 17 03:16:43 NP Jul 17 03:17:40 copy constructor, useful :) Jul 17 03:18:01 and no strcut definition or private members defined? Jul 17 03:18:31 i thought it was a uint32 as 4 char's which are rgba Jul 17 03:18:39 but seeing 4 ints in a row seems a little weird Jul 17 03:19:46 no, it's likely rrrrrrrrggggggggbbbbbbbbaaaaaaaa Jul 17 03:19:53 a single 32bit int Jul 17 03:20:20 or four chars or ints, though that does seem weird Jul 17 03:20:22 Anybody familiar with how validateInstall works? Jul 17 03:20:30 what is the line that calls that? Jul 17 03:21:18 JackieRipper: in the getipkginfo function, I'm not sure you are capturing the stderr into the log file. putting the 2>&1 on the beginning of the line (before the wget command itself) will ensure this - If you are sure that both stdout and stderr are in the log (or you didn't want stderr in the log), then never mind Jul 17 03:23:27 bclancy: the syntax works Jul 17 03:23:51 I'm certain of it Jul 17 03:24:17 JackieRipper: by works, you mean both stderr is redirected to stdout before being logged, right? Jul 17 03:24:26 yes Jul 17 03:25:19 JackieRipper: great Jul 17 03:26:24 JackieRipper: You know you don't need the {print} commands in the awk statements (but the code is easier to read the way you did it- I like the style you used Jul 17 03:30:47 JackieRipper: in the getipkg function, since you assume that the wget was done into /tmp, you should hardcode a "cd /tmp" near the beginning of the function to ensure that nobody cd's to somewhere else and then calls the getipkg function. (If they do, then your function will be broken.) Just defensive programming. Jul 17 03:30:51 tmzt: yeah it's a buffer composed of uint32 Jul 17 03:30:58 each one a pixel of RGBA Jul 17 03:31:08 oh at least the screen buffer is Jul 17 03:31:19 I don't know about what puff is looking at Jul 17 03:31:48 bclancy: that's there already: cd /tmp || error "Failed to change directory to /tmp" || return 1 Jul 17 03:32:09 oops, that's getipkginfo Jul 17 03:33:09 bclancy: fixed Jul 17 03:33:14 JackieRipper: good Jul 17 03:35:05 JackieRipper: doprofile function has the side effect of changing $PATH but the previous PATH is not saved or restored afterwards. Was this intentional? Jul 17 03:35:37 JackieRipper: (You had defined PATH at the top of the script) Jul 17 03:36:19 JackieRipper: never min, you're just adding to it. Should be OK. Jul 17 03:36:19 bclancy: dammit, the export line should have been removed (I thought I had done that) Jul 17 03:36:41 export PATH=/opt/bin:$PATH doesn't need to be there Jul 17 03:36:47 JackieRipper: good Jul 17 03:38:42 JackieRipper: is "mkdir -p $some_arg" OK if the full path already exists? (Probably is, just checking whether you considered the possibility) Jul 17 03:38:51 yes Jul 17 03:38:59 the -p is rather forgiving Jul 17 03:39:19 JackieRipper: good Jul 17 03:41:25 JackieRipper: in doprofile, probably don't need the double quotes in the [ "\`id -u\`" -eq 0 ] test, but my gut feeling is to leave tested and well-enough code alone in cases like this. Jul 17 03:44:03 bclancy: I'd always leave those quotes in, otherwise you can get a parsing problem if 'id' returns something weird Jul 17 03:44:19 JackieRipper: in doprofile, you don't need double quotes here: if [ "$?" != 0 ] Jul 17 03:44:32 like [ No home directory -eq 0 ] :-) Jul 17 03:44:46 JackieRipper: good on the parsing thing - my gut feeling told me there was a reason. Jul 17 03:44:51 I'd have to test that... I've had problems not quoting $? inside of test Jul 17 03:45:03 always quote in test is my mantra Jul 17 03:45:17 bclancy do the quotes HURT? 'cause if not, I like quotes. Jul 17 03:46:24 .JackieRipper + Rick_: I'm sure they aren't needed, but I'll yield to keeping them if Jack/you want them/ Jul 17 03:46:25 destinal: I'll need to make 'localhost' a variable in the install target of the basicplugin makefile :-) Jul 17 03:46:53 bclancy: I'm not married to either... I just generally quote unless there's a reason not to Jul 17 03:47:07 rwhitby: go for it :) Jul 17 03:47:11 such as when "$x" may be " 2 " Jul 17 03:47:29 but [ $x -lt 3 ] will still work in that case Jul 17 03:47:39 i am talking about the undocumented PColor32 class Jul 17 03:47:42 JackieRipper: haha, and generally I don't unless there is a reason to. (Funny the habits we get into) Jul 17 03:47:44 nodnod quoting good. it's a nice habit to be in. that way you don't forget to quote sometimes.... Jul 17 03:47:54 rwhitby: oh fair warning, Luna tends to get mad if you overwrite a loaded library. well, segfault actually Jul 17 03:48:04 destinal: PColor32 Jul 17 03:48:16 no big deal when upstart kicks luna back up all is well Jul 17 03:48:31 and it only happens if you already had it up Jul 17 03:48:40 i believe its a wrapper class for the Color class Jul 17 03:48:50 in platform/graphics/Color.(h|cpp) Jul 17 03:49:05 cause there is a function call convertColorToPColor Jul 17 03:49:14 JackieRipper: I understand your example - by not having them unless needed, I just don't need to think about the special cases as often as you do. :-) Jul 17 03:49:15 destinal: make EMHOST=192.168.56.100 EMPORT=22 install Jul 17 03:49:36 install from ubuntu vm to pre emulator on macosx host Jul 17 03:49:43 overwrite a loaded library? Jul 17 03:49:50 like text file busy? Jul 17 03:50:14 rwhitby: but what about getting eclipse to call that? Jul 17 03:50:22 destinal: I think I just got a light blue card in the emulator :-) Jul 17 03:50:51 rwhitby: cool, good. once I can get Puff's fix in there we can draw up some rounded rectangles Jul 17 03:50:57 good on you rod!!! Jul 17 03:50:57 not much more yet alas Jul 17 03:51:04 :-( Jul 17 03:51:09 JackieRipper + others: Just want to mention that when I rip on code, that doesn't mean that I don't think what's there is good. - This is good code that I'm reviewing and you guys thought a lot about error handling. Better than what I usually write. Jul 17 03:51:14 but you've got several very bright people poking at it. Jul 17 03:51:16 * rwhitby changes the colour in BasicPlugin.cpp and reinstalls to make sure Jul 17 03:51:19 Rick__: yeah, we're making progress Jul 17 03:51:38 progess is good. Jul 17 03:51:53 bclancy: I'm not offended even a little bit ;) Jul 17 03:52:02 * rwhitby now has a red card. compilation and installation is confirmed. Jul 17 03:52:20 * destinal cheers. Jul 17 03:52:38 destinal: ok, I'm now officially tooled up and ready to help :-) Jul 17 03:52:40 rwhitby: can you make it run on a pre? Jul 17 03:52:46 rwhitby: doesn't that mean you're out for the rest of the game? Jul 17 03:52:48 destinal: if I had a Pre ... Jul 17 03:52:49 well it's not critical yet Jul 17 03:53:06 rwhitby: I mean x-compile but I really don't need that until we get it doing something useful anyway Jul 17 03:53:22 oh wait, they just show it to you; they don't give it to you Jul 17 03:53:44 destinal: I'm tooled up to do that, yes. Jul 17 03:53:53 * rwhitby heads out to buy one of those neoprene cases for the macbookpro Jul 17 03:54:02 * rwhitby bbl Jul 17 03:54:12 rwhitby: later, have fun Jul 17 03:58:05 destinal: i think the P*.h headers are autogenerated Jul 17 03:58:17 eh? Jul 17 03:58:19 from ForwardingHeaders Jul 17 03:58:29 like PFont.h Jul 17 03:58:35 and PColor32.h Jul 17 03:58:40 all the missing headers Jul 17 03:58:53 i think are wrappers for either gtk or qt or wx Jul 17 03:59:14 PuffTheMagic: no, it's _piranha_\ Jul 17 03:59:24 ah? Jul 17 03:59:39 what is ForwardingHeaders? Jul 17 03:59:42 the PG*.h headers include P*.h headers Jul 17 04:00:36 yoh Jul 17 04:00:44 yo Jul 17 04:01:26 how goes it Jul 17 04:01:35 they may have taken pieces from things but they made their own vector graphics lib from it Jul 17 04:02:55 can someone help me im getting an error when trying to root my pre using the linux method Jul 17 04:03:03 destinal: all the Pirahana headers are included Jul 17 04:03:16 linux method ? Jul 17 04:03:18 but the Pirahana headers call other headers which are specific to the platform Jul 17 04:03:19 interesting Jul 17 04:03:32 PuffTheMagic: ah Jul 17 04:03:34 and i think it glib/gtk/pango/cairo Jul 17 04:03:35 g0ow: what is the problem ? Jul 17 04:03:38 but PContext? Jul 17 04:03:50 well PG* has pieces of Pango in it too Jul 17 04:03:54 i think PContext is autogenerated Jul 17 04:03:56 JackieRipper: in line 292 (in the mkuser function), you don't need this part: && [ "$NONEWUSER" != "yes" ] Jul 17 04:04:07 Im using the precomd with the novacom script that was reversed, im getting this: Error claiming interface 1: -16 Jul 17 04:04:18 JackieRipper: because you returned from the function earlier in this case Jul 17 04:04:21 interesting Jul 17 04:04:24 someone else said that too Jul 17 04:04:31 ubuntu 9 ? Jul 17 04:04:35 yes Jul 17 04:04:41 which version of libusb ? Jul 17 04:04:48 PuffTheMagic: hmm Jul 17 04:05:02 ahh yes Jul 17 04:05:06 i cant beleive they would create yet another graphics lib Jul 17 04:05:13 or I don't need the return Jul 17 04:05:25 either way Jul 17 04:05:34 I don't understand the answer to "why pirahna?" Jul 17 04:05:45 libusb 2:0.1.12-13 Jul 17 04:05:59 especially since it seems to be pulled from different things Jul 17 04:06:00 that should work Jul 17 04:06:02 interesting Jul 17 04:06:12 i know that it does see the device Jul 17 04:06:16 g0ow, i dunno - does something else claim the interface first ? Jul 17 04:06:36 just charge mode, right ? Jul 17 04:06:40 yes Jul 17 04:06:48 obviously running as root Jul 17 04:07:01 weird that it can't claim the interface .. hrmm Jul 17 04:07:12 JackieRipper: trusting that the content of /opt/etc/sudoers is correct. Don't want to do a man on that, or I'll end up keeping you up all night! Jul 17 04:07:47 i know that it is seeing it because with it plugged in it will ask if my pre is plugged and to reissue the command but i dont understand why it's not claiming it Jul 17 04:08:02 :) Jul 17 04:08:58 PuffTheMagic If I understand you correctly, you think there's gtk or some such code hiding under there? if only you can figure out how to get at it? Jul 17 04:09:05 unfortunately i don't know much about usb and ubuntu .. or how to check if something else has the interface open Jul 17 04:09:49 Rick_: i think its more gdk primitives Jul 17 04:09:57 i dont think they include any gtk widgets Jul 17 04:09:59 JackieRipper: This comment should be changed: Jul 17 04:10:01 FROM: Jul 17 04:10:03 # Name: installpkg Jul 17 04:10:05 # Arguments: Package [Package1] [Package2] [...] Jul 17 04:10:06 TO: Jul 17 04:10:08 # Name: installpkg Jul 17 04:10:10 # Arguments: Package1 [Package2] [Package3] [...] Jul 17 04:10:18 k Jul 17 04:14:24 aye wb jrip Jul 17 04:14:51 so what happened to the terminal app for the pre? Jul 17 04:14:51 JackieRipper: right before line 356 cd /etc/event.d Jul 17 04:14:53 Maybe you should do a "mkdir -p /etc/event.d" command (unless the script would be totally hosed anyway and then your just returning an error is fine as-is) Jul 17 04:15:23 er jr i need a keypair for webos/gitorous Jul 17 04:16:05 bclancy: I've been making updates... I doubt our line numbers coincide anymore Jul 17 04:17:34 JackieRipper: OK, good point. I meant the line just before the first wget in the dodropbear function. Jul 17 04:17:40 Technobabble they're working on t. Jul 17 04:18:13 They have to figure out how to use the piranah graphics library 'cause for some idiot reason palm decided to use something DIFFERENT than every other linux in the world, or they would be done by now. Jul 17 04:18:34 bclancy: I doubt a mkdir -p would wreck anything... but your pre would certainly be hosed without /etc/event.d Jul 17 04:20:14 JackieRipper: if the script will still work withf an empty /etc/event.d dir, then add the "mkdir -p", if the script expects files in an existing /etc/event.d dir, then leave the script "as- is" Jul 17 04:22:14 JackieRipper: this next line seems to have a wrong number of quotes: Jul 17 04:22:16 echo -n "Configuring the Dropbear upstart script: "are-dropbear: " Jul 17 04:23:01 JackieRipper: never mind - I needed to do CRTL-L in vi Jul 17 04:23:09 ahh Jul 17 04:23:24 :) Jul 17 04:25:54 JackieRipper: I don't understand your sed commands in the dodropbear function - are they what you wanted or should I figure them out? Jul 17 04:26:27 are you doing a range command instead of a substitute command or something similar? Jul 17 04:26:42 it's substitute Jul 17 04:26:53 * Rick__ off to bed Jul 17 04:27:17 why are you subbing INPUT with an s character? Jul 17 04:27:28 on lines that contain INPUT, substitute " -i eth0" with " -i ppp0" Jul 17 04:27:56 or on lines that contain INPUT, substitute " -i eth0" with "" Jul 17 04:28:00 JackieRipper: sed -i '/INPUT/s/ -i eth0/ -i ppp0/' /etc/event.d/optware-dropbear Jul 17 04:28:01 depending Jul 17 04:28:17 JackieRipper: it just looks weird to me Jul 17 04:28:20 yes, /INPUT/ is a regex match, similar to grep Jul 17 04:28:42 then s/ -i eth0/ -i ppp0/ Jul 17 04:28:50 ok Jul 17 04:28:51 which should look normal, right? Jul 17 04:28:56 i see what you mean now Jul 17 04:30:08 I would have put a space or two after the /INPUT/ pattern match before starting the substitute command. (It just wasn't clear to me without the space.) Maybe it's just me. Jul 17 04:30:51 I'm not a sed expert... would a space create an error in syntax? Jul 17 04:31:55 nope, a space is fine. I'll add one Jul 17 04:32:06 JackieRipper: I don't think so, but you should test before changing. If you don't want to test, leave well enough alone and we can test and make more pretty later Jul 17 04:32:11 JackieRipper: good Jul 17 04:36:56 bclancy: I'm very much into readability... so anything that can be done to make the ideas clearer is fine with me Jul 17 04:36:59 JackieRipper: Your checks of /etc/fstab only check the first 3 args Jul 17 04:37:22 bclancy: yeah... that was me being lazy Jul 17 04:37:32 do you think I should check the whole thing? Jul 17 04:37:38 JackieRipper: not sure Jul 17 04:38:10 hmm Jul 17 04:38:25 I should at least check that the third opt is "bind" Jul 17 04:38:27 JackieRipper: I think what you are doing is better - avoids potentially conflicting stuff Jul 17 04:38:46 I think you do check the 3rd arg Jul 17 04:38:48 oh, wait, I did Jul 17 04:38:50 lol Jul 17 04:38:59 JackieRipper: good Jul 17 04:40:33 oh shoot Jul 17 04:40:47 I have to fix the "Download the Package file and check version" section Jul 17 04:40:50 JackieRipper: I'm pretty sure "awk -F." is OK - Just want to be sure that . is not interpreted as any char {it's getting late and my mind is starting to doubt itself} :-) Jul 17 04:41:04 it works Jul 17 04:41:17 JackieRipper: what do you have to fix Jul 17 04:41:48 get_version only takes one arg now (old version took 4) Jul 17 04:42:15 JackieRipper: good Jul 17 04:46:22 JackieRipper: Is the $NOTIFIED variable sopposed to mean MODIFIED? Jul 17 04:48:14 nah... it's just telling us that "Configuring the Optware feeds: " has been printed Jul 17 04:48:25 so it doesn't get printed all three times Jul 17 04:48:34 ok Jul 17 04:52:05 JackieRipper: I thought earlier in my review I noticed a function to build sudoers file, but you seem to be building it by hand near the end Jul 17 04:52:20 hmm Jul 17 04:52:51 so I do Jul 17 04:52:59 I'll remove the function Jul 17 04:53:09 oh wait Jul 17 04:53:26 no, I don't build it by hand... I still call dosudo Jul 17 04:53:42 JackieRipper: just after this, you have the following commented out lines: Jul 17 04:53:43 #pkill dropbear > /dev/null 2>&1 Jul 17 04:53:45 #pkill -9 dropbear > /dev/null 2>&1 Jul 17 04:53:46 are/were they intentional? Jul 17 04:53:52 good catch Jul 17 04:53:57 that was for testing Jul 17 04:54:05 so I didn't keep logging myself out Jul 17 04:54:23 JackieRipper: you can refactor it later if you want to keep it Jul 17 04:54:51 OK Jul 17 04:56:07 JackieRipper: well I'm done with the first pass at reviewing this - which was mostly looking for easily visible mistakes Jul 17 04:56:23 thanks! This was a BIG help Jul 17 04:56:55 JackieRipper: I'll look at it again tomorrow when my mind is fresh - but I think we caught a few things and probably didn't introduce any new bugs :-) Jul 17 04:57:19 NP, glad to be able to help webos-internals somewhere :-) Jul 17 04:57:20 Tonight's changes have been pushed to git Jul 17 04:57:27 thx Jul 17 04:57:32 man, were can I get that Active Home Screen, looks hella clean Jul 17 04:58:00 JackieRipper, bclancy: nice work. Jul 17 04:58:19 JackieRipper + others: nice work on the script - very useful Jul 17 04:58:51 JamesBaud: donate a couple bucks to the dev - he'll allow you to download Jul 17 04:59:07 rwhitby: NP, it's much easier to see mistakes in other people's code. (I just wish I could do the same for my own code.) :-) Jul 17 04:59:13 rwhitby: What would you like the git/quilt script to be named? Jul 17 04:59:17 really? Jul 17 04:59:44 JackieRipper: quilt-bootstrap.sh Jul 17 04:59:46 JamesBaud: Yep. That's what I did. He then has a controlled beta group that he releases to Jul 17 04:59:51 you got it Jul 17 05:00:20 i see, im too damn cheap, but thanks for the info Jul 17 05:00:37 JamesBaud: I sent a fiver - small price ;) Jul 17 05:00:44 JackieRippe: I'll try and review quilt-bootstrap.sh tomorrow for you. Jul 17 05:03:23 cool Jul 17 05:06:35 bclancy: it's been pushed to git Jul 17 05:07:08 JackieRippe: thx, I'll look at it tomorrow Jul 17 05:07:16 JackieRipper: I'm going to make it emulator-aware now Jul 17 05:07:30 awesome Jul 17 05:07:57 rwhitby: make what emulator-aware? Jul 17 05:08:25 JackieRipper: can you add a switch statement which looks at /proc/cpuinfo and switches on it to set an EMULATOR variable to 0 ? Jul 17 05:08:42 rwhitby: in which? Jul 17 05:09:01 it's a little off topic but does anyone have a blog of pre pictures? would like to see what people are taking pictures of with the pre. Jul 17 05:09:18 JackieRipper: probably just optware-bootstrap - I expect quilt-bootstrap will be identical for both platforms Jul 17 05:09:27 k Jul 17 05:10:00 What am I looking for in /proc/cpuinfo ? Jul 17 05:10:16 rwhitby JackieRipper: if you are making more changes to quilt-bootstrap.sh, I can give it a once-over tonight Jul 17 05:11:05 bclancy: I'm done with it aside from bug fixes and feature suggestions Jul 17 05:11:07 JackieRipper: actually, just test on `uname -a` and look for qemux86 to denote the emulator Jul 17 05:11:31 ok Jul 17 05:11:34 qemux86 or armv7l, right? Jul 17 05:11:44 and whatever is the second field of uname -a on the Pre Jul 17 05:12:29 rwhitby: what does uname -am output on the emulator? Jul 17 05:12:39 oh, the second field? Jul 17 05:12:49 castle Jul 17 05:13:01 sorry, that should have been.... Jul 17 05:13:05 rwhitby: what does uname -m output on the emulator? Jul 17 05:13:49 there are other uname options Jul 17 05:14:00 you can also read /proc/cpuinfi Jul 17 05:14:25 I think we're looking at uname -n or uname -am Jul 17 05:14:44 that's gotta be my IRC client doing text replace Jul 17 05:15:09 I think we're looking at uname -n or uname -m Jul 17 05:16:25 rwhitby: you want EMULATOR=0 if it's a pre, and EMULATOR=1 if it's the emulator? Jul 17 05:16:34 or vice versa? Jul 17 05:16:36 JackieRipper: i686, but that may depend on the host Jul 17 05:16:55 JackieRipper: EMULATOR=1 for emulator Jul 17 05:17:09 JackieRipper: ah, uname -n is what we want Jul 17 05:17:16 cool Jul 17 05:17:22 oh, no, that's hostname which may change Jul 17 05:17:24 sorry Jul 17 05:17:39 the emulator will never be armv7l Jul 17 05:17:49 in uname -m Jul 17 05:17:50 for uname -m, right. Jul 17 05:17:57 uname -m Jul 17 05:17:58 heh Jul 17 05:18:08 collision Jul 17 05:19:27 also /etc/palm-build-info looks different on an emu but uname's easy and better than a config file Jul 17 05:20:26 * rwhitby runs emacs on the emulator to edit the boostrap script directly. Jul 17 05:21:11 rwhitby: pushed to git Jul 17 05:21:51 JackieRipper: pulled to emulator :_) Jul 17 05:22:47 destinal: we'll need to have instructions on how to create a virtual disk Jul 17 05:23:02 destinal: just /dev/hdb, or should we partition it? Jul 17 05:23:11 qemu-img create Jul 17 05:23:28 what is the goal here anyway? Jul 17 05:24:08 tmzt: to run the optware-bootstrap script on the emulator, with /opt mounted from a secondary virtual disk (cause the primary one is too small) Jul 17 05:25:14 gah - gotta map something to pgup and pgdown in iTerm ... Jul 17 05:26:39 rwhitby: that should be pretty easy... just put an if... then...else around the block that creates/mounts /opt and updates /etc/fstab Jul 17 05:29:22 rwhitby: back Jul 17 05:30:00 I'd say partition it with one partition just to be friendly Jul 17 05:30:19 - /dev/hdb1 would be the fs Jul 17 05:30:27 I have to say, it was refreshing scripting for the pre. At work, we support multiple flavors of Linux, Solaris 6-10, IRIX and HP-UX, so I have to very careful about using platform-specific code. With the pre, everyone has the same dedault tools. No worries that a specific grep option will fail or something. :) Jul 17 05:34:03 JackieRipper: do you want to do that if then else code then? mount -t ext3 /dev/hdb1 /opt Jul 17 05:34:15 sure Jul 17 05:34:26 check for /dev/hdb1 and exit with error if it is not present. Jul 17 05:37:37 ahhh Jul 17 05:37:40 Hi all Jul 17 05:37:44 i see the finally released the sdk Jul 17 05:37:49 like, legit, lol Jul 17 05:38:01 dustifer: yep, it's made things in here much easier Jul 17 05:39:05 Im trying to root my pre but having a hard time got all the way to the putty part and it keeps saying "connection closed by remote host" Jul 17 05:41:02 whats good Jul 17 05:42:31 rwhitby: pushed Jul 17 05:44:19 and I'm off to bed Jul 17 05:44:19 anyone have any ideas Jul 17 05:44:32 dustifer: please ask questions in channel. Jul 17 05:44:34 ~sdk Jul 17 05:44:35 The Palm SDK is now public, and can be downloaded from http://developer.palm.com Jul 17 05:44:57 PCS: the ssh part or the telnet part? Jul 17 05:45:11 oh, wait, putty Jul 17 05:45:16 telnet part Jul 17 05:46:07 not sure then... sorry Jul 17 05:46:14 sorry ;) Jul 17 05:46:22 did talk.pl run as expected? Jul 17 05:47:09 my putty settings are ( localhost port 8023 connection type RAW and line discipline forced off) Jul 17 05:48:56 have a good night everyone, and have a good day to those in places where it's already day Jul 17 05:49:19 ok night Jul 17 05:50:04 is there anyother way to get the root done? Jul 17 05:50:09 hmmm Jul 17 05:50:20 i submitted a request for it, got the email, but theres no link in there lol Jul 17 05:51:30 ~rwhitby Jul 17 05:51:31 extra, extra, read all about it, rwhitby is the owner of the nslu2-linux mailing list and IRC channel. He tries to provide some order to the burgeoning development around the NSLU2. You can find his website at http://www.rwhitby.net (where in particular, you will find information on Serial Port modifications for the Linksys WRT54G and NSLU2 devices). Jul 17 05:51:48 ~ word, cool Jul 17 05:51:50 sorry Jul 17 05:52:13 ~42 Jul 17 05:52:14 42 is probably the answer to life the universe and everything, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/the_answer_to_life,_the_universe,_and_everything Jul 17 05:55:36 pah - probably Jul 17 05:55:41 _is_ Jul 17 05:55:56 you'd think the frackin' computer would know Jul 17 05:58:39 damn Jul 17 05:58:49 somethin be wrong with this thing Jul 17 05:59:02 im trying to get on there and download the sdk, but its not showing me the link in the email Jul 17 06:05:08 destinal: guess I better update the factoid Jul 17 06:06:27 ~destinal Jul 17 06:06:49 anyone playing with cpu scaling? Jul 17 06:06:56 yes Jul 17 06:07:07 jauderho: it knows nothing of me Jul 17 06:07:08 dustifer: i had the same problem earlier Jul 17 06:07:25 send the email to a different account Jul 17 06:07:36 i was having it send to my gmail and had the error Jul 17 06:07:52 ~say test Jul 17 06:07:53 test Jul 17 06:08:07 i sent it to my outlook access account and forwarded it to my gmail and that solved my problem Jul 17 06:08:27 jauderho: hows it working for you? im running a test right now Jul 17 06:08:40 documenting every 15 minutes on battery life Jul 17 06:24:54 im pushing email, and have gtalk and AIM, bluetooth, and pandora streaming..going it's been 30 minutes and im at 93% Jul 17 06:31:08 infobot sounds a bit annoying to me. Jul 17 06:31:39 Hi, I keep getting connection closed by remote host using putty anyone have any ideas Jul 17 06:31:55 bclancy: infobot isn't annoying, it only speaks when requested by people :-) Jul 17 06:32:39 I gues I'll have to google it. - (I feel so old sometimes.) Jul 17 06:35:13 infobot sound cool Jul 17 06:35:20 (now) Jul 17 06:36:40 rwhitby: ok, I'm off to bed. if you have any ideas on graphics drawing on the plugin that would help the most, but if not, even getting it cross-compiling out of the box would be cool too Jul 17 06:37:23 destinal: I'll get it cross compiling on ubuntu using the optware toolchain Jul 17 06:37:49 rwhitby: yeah, it seems like ubuntu is the official linux workstation of palm :) Jul 17 06:37:54 I like it also Jul 17 06:38:36 destinal: I use it headless. Linux GUIs are an anathema to me. Too bloated. Jul 17 06:38:55 rwhitby: for that I use ubuntu server Jul 17 06:39:02 destinal: same here Jul 17 06:39:09 8.04.2 server Jul 17 06:39:22 an amazing thing, a linux os that actually comes out of the box pretty well hardened Jul 17 06:40:26 rwhitby: I got my micro USB a make to standard female cable for USB on the go Jul 17 06:40:42 so once I rebuild my kernel I may have something fun going if the rumors I hear are true Jul 17 06:40:54 how'd you do the cable? Jul 17 06:41:00 (or did you buy it somewhere) Jul 17 06:41:06 the lazy way, bought it for $10 from digikey Jul 17 06:41:15 I have a otg mini cable for the n800 Jul 17 06:41:22 lo Jul 17 06:41:26 destinal: can you put the part no on the wiki somewhere? Jul 17 06:41:33 are there -zero- analog signals in the usa now? Jul 17 06:41:40 http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/kate-alholas-forum-nokia-blog/2008/01/21/usb-on-the-go Jul 17 06:42:11 destinal: yeah, I do that on the n800 Jul 17 06:42:14 rwhitby: I'll write up an article tomorrow but for now it's: Jul 17 06:42:15 http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Cat=1573165&keywords=USB%20Hirose Jul 17 06:42:15 Out part number is ZX40-A-5S-75-STDAJ, and Digi-Key P/N is H11576-ND. Jul 17 06:42:25 rwhitby: same deal would appear to apply here Jul 17 06:43:07 same cable if you have one, but theoretically it should be switchable in software too Jul 17 06:43:29 the question is whether it does work with the kernel module people were mentioning, and then whether it supplies any voltage Jul 17 06:43:34 destinal: n800 is mini, n810 is micro Jul 17 06:44:04 rwhitby: stupid standard change -- I have all these extra cables from my G1 now... Jul 17 06:44:26 can someone help me im trying to root my pre and am having issues Jul 17 06:44:48 night Jul 17 06:44:54 destinal: is http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=H11576-ND the cable? Jul 17 06:45:09 yes that's the one i bought Jul 17 06:45:14 did you need to mod it? Jul 17 06:45:24 haven't tested it but supposedly I shouldn't need to Jul 17 06:45:39 I'll know more tomorrow so you may want to hold off ordering til then Jul 17 06:45:44 i run novaproxy.py as the directions say and python gives me an error message that says novacomd is not running Jul 17 06:45:54 cool, I'll get my US export agent to buy me one then :-) Jul 17 06:46:20 *sigh* Jul 17 06:46:25 nice device. Jul 17 06:46:26 rwhitby: but you don't have a pre? Jul 17 06:46:50 destinal-sleep: "then" == when I get a Pre Jul 17 06:46:53 ah Jul 17 06:46:55 *nods* Jul 17 06:47:21 someone please help me! i need sleep lol..... Jul 17 06:47:27 whats good asedeno_home Jul 17 06:47:36 errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr asfasfwkfiefkad Jul 17 06:47:49 sorry :-( Jul 17 06:47:54 asfasfw: when you need sleep is not a good time to do the pre secure root access mechanism installation procedure Jul 17 06:48:23 i didnt need sleep when i started...its been so long and im sooo close Jul 17 06:48:24 asfasfw: turn everything off, start again in the morning, and I bet it will work :-) Jul 17 06:48:51 :-( Jul 17 06:49:49 asfasfw: if you haven't even got into the thing yet, then you are not close to the end. Jul 17 06:51:13 I guess ur right rwhitby..... .... .... i will make it work though ...with help or without it :-( Jul 17 06:52:19 asfasfw: I'm sure you will. if you want help you should have spent the last 6 minutes telling us what OS you're running, what you've done so far, what wiki page you are following, what step you are up to on the wiki page, what you expected to happen and what actually happened. Jul 17 06:52:46 otherwise we're all just looking into crystal balls ... Jul 17 06:54:06 * rwhitby bbl Jul 17 06:54:26 its never too late... im running vista x86 following the wiki at http://predev.wikidot.com/using-novaproxy and im up to step 9 please help Jul 17 06:54:28 :-) Jul 17 07:03:54 when i run novaproxy.py i get an error message from python26 stating "novacomd is not running. please re-run the NovacomInstaller and try again" Jul 17 07:04:28 I did that numerous times and so im seeking help here Jul 17 07:05:46 asfasfw Jul 17 07:05:58 start, run, services.msc Jul 17 07:06:16 go find the novacom service, stop it Jul 17 07:06:18 and restart it Jul 17 07:07:53 i stopped and started palm novacom service and tried again but i have recieved the same error message Jul 17 07:08:04 which novacom installer did you run Jul 17 07:09:03 and what version of windows are you runnin Jul 17 07:10:04 wheres that quilt-bootstrap Jul 17 07:10:25 im running vista x86 and installed NovacomInstaller_x86.msi from the link of the wiki at Jul 17 07:10:27 h heh Jul 17 07:10:27 http://predev.wikidot.com/using-novaproxy Jul 17 07:10:29 in the bootstrap Jul 17 07:10:33 der Jul 17 07:11:13 did u install python? Jul 17 07:11:32 yes i did Jul 17 07:11:40 is your vista 64 bit? Jul 17 07:11:53 no 32 bit Jul 17 07:12:21 when u plugged in your pre, did you see Palm Novacom? Jul 17 07:12:28 did it try and find new devices? Jul 17 07:13:00 i reinstalled the driver ealier Jul 17 07:14:12 hmmm Jul 17 07:15:00 so you tried restarting the service, "palm novacom" Jul 17 07:15:03 and no go huh Jul 17 07:15:48 nope no go Jul 17 07:15:56 hmmm Jul 17 07:16:03 enabled developer mode and everything? Jul 17 07:16:39 yup... on a previous day though....do i have to do it again? Jul 17 07:17:10 i would for this application Jul 17 07:17:38 ok will do that now Jul 17 07:20:09 it was still enabled Jul 17 07:20:42 ok Jul 17 07:21:04 what version of python did u install Jul 17 07:21:43 2.6.2 Jul 17 07:22:49 you tried to doubleclick the novaproxy file and it gave you the error, did you try to open a command prompt and do "python novaproxy.py" Jul 17 07:23:44 no i did not will try now....im uninstalling python going to try to reinstall that Jul 17 07:25:05 im a little confused at why it thinks that the novacom service isnt on Jul 17 07:27:03 i know its listed as started in services Jul 17 07:27:11 wierd Jul 17 07:27:44 you SURE you have 32 bit? :) lol Jul 17 07:27:46 im lost man Jul 17 07:28:10 yup i just checked lol Jul 17 07:29:03 hmmm Jul 17 07:29:39 did u try the command prompt way Jul 17 07:31:41 im installin python as admin through cmd prompt right now then will try that way Jul 17 07:35:49 doesnt work.... i typed novaproxy.py from cmd n get the same error message Jul 17 07:36:00 thats pretty weird man Jul 17 07:36:06 i dunno what the issue is Jul 17 07:36:23 the wiki says to try python novaproxy.py but the cmd doesnt work Jul 17 07:36:44 hmmm Jul 17 07:37:06 unplug ur pre, and plug it back in, and hit just charge Jul 17 07:37:19 you see any problems in device manager? Jul 17 07:38:50 no problems indevice manager...unplug/plug didnt work Jul 17 07:39:04 try restarting? Jul 17 07:39:21 the computer? Jul 17 07:40:29 yeah Jul 17 07:41:23 :-( alright will do im going to uninstal drivers and start fresh before hand... thanks for the help tlzz Jul 17 07:41:49 sorry man Jul 17 07:42:22 maybe that fixes it .....so thanks take care Jul 17 07:42:42 good luck Jul 17 07:54:36 Making your changes stick after a reboot Jul 17 07:54:36 Create a file called cpu-scaling in /etc/event.d and put this code in it, then reboot. Jul 17 07:54:46 why is it not 600mhz and it is 500mhz Jul 17 07:54:51 because of the instability? Jul 17 07:58:03 you can edit it and it should be fine Jul 17 08:11:42 hello Jul 17 08:14:54 anyone here? Jul 17 08:20:45 no one?!?! Jul 17 08:26:28 EvanDotPro: ping Jul 17 08:27:16 haha , got my pre in China Jul 17 08:42:18 JackieRipper: updated the bootstrap script to work on the emulator Jul 17 08:51:24 ameng: cdma? Jul 17 08:51:29 does it work? Jul 17 08:57:35 yeah,cdma, it work Jul 17 08:58:27 what frequencies? Jul 17 08:58:34 the phone part works? Jul 17 08:59:09 yes, it works after some hacking Jul 17 08:59:39 you mean cpu? Jul 17 09:16:22 hello Jul 17 09:30:49 Hi, does someone know what a GSM CSD (data call) is? If yes, has someone succeeded (does someone attempt) to make one with webOS? Jul 17 09:31:10 i have no clue Jul 17 09:31:22 :-) Jul 17 09:31:40 i gaven't seen anyone in here for a while, it's been strangely quiet (i guess everyone is busy with the official release of the SDK) Jul 17 09:32:20 Yeah, probably. I will check again l8er Jul 17 10:19:54 pli: hello again, current pre's are cdma not gsm Jul 17 11:09:36 http://pastie.org/549239 Jul 17 11:09:45 guys if you could take a look at that question I would appreciate it Jul 17 11:11:36 jcrawford: all I can suggest is look at the source code of the login shell in busybox and see what files it runs on login and logout Jul 17 11:12:07 i wouldnt begin to know where that source code would be lol Jul 17 11:12:19 ash? Jul 17 11:15:46 strace might help Jul 17 11:15:59 or strings Jul 17 11:19:09 just looked through the login.c file but do not see it loading any files like .bashrc or .bash_profile etc. Jul 17 11:22:21 it must be sourcing .profile Jul 17 11:22:57 hrm Jul 17 11:26:05 try strace with -i option to sh Jul 17 11:27:32 tmzt: i don't mean to sound dumb but how :) Jul 17 11:30:37 strace sh Jul 17 11:30:55 with any options to enable login shell that may be required Jul 17 11:31:06 strace -e stat,open usually works Jul 17 11:33:55 well i found out that it sources .profile so now i just need to find out if upon logout it sources anything Jul 17 11:34:04 as i will need a command run on logout also Jul 17 11:37:26 don't think so Jul 17 11:37:30 what command? Jul 17 11:38:04 you would have to wrap the shell or watch wtmp/utmp for that I think Jul 17 11:38:48 i want to run initctl powerd stop upon login and initctl powerd start on logout Jul 17 11:39:57 if there is an active ssh connection the unit will go to sleep halting the connection and i do not want that Jul 17 11:40:04 not the best way Jul 17 11:40:09 fix getty :) Jul 17 11:40:12 or Jul 17 11:40:27 tcp wrapper for ssh maybe Jul 17 11:41:03 what is getty? Jul 17 11:41:07 that might not work either Jul 17 11:41:12 get tty Jul 17 11:41:34 i know most distros have .bash_logout ability but i am guessing due to the nature of busybox it does not have a logout script Jul 17 11:46:00 this will only ever work for root though Jul 17 11:46:32 oh see i would want it for regular users :D Jul 17 11:46:58 i will talk to my boss, he's a huge C guy maybe he can write me a binary that would do this for me :) Jul 17 11:47:12 well, initctl runs as root Jul 17 11:47:22 hmm ok Jul 17 11:47:23 to stop things Jul 17 11:47:42 sudo will ask for a password Jul 17 11:47:52 yea Jul 17 11:47:57 a c wrapper replacing shell might work Jul 17 11:47:57 so the script would have to run as root then Jul 17 11:48:05 but still has to run as root Jul 17 11:48:10 right Jul 17 11:48:35 you could create a dbus service to do it Jul 17 11:48:56 sigh Jul 17 11:48:59 runs as root but accepts commands from users Jul 17 11:49:07 hey Jul 17 11:49:10 what? Jul 17 11:50:21 both my friggen apps broke with the public sdk release Jul 17 11:50:29 something with lists crapped out on me Jul 17 11:50:50 basically every list in all my apps broke Jul 17 11:51:45 blau-mikeDG: yea you know the fix? Jul 17 11:51:51 has to do with the html escaping bit Jul 17 11:52:08 nope, i checked the forums for a bit, didnt seem to find anything related to it Jul 17 11:52:09 in all of your template files change #{var} to #{-var} Jul 17 11:52:36 thanks :) Jul 17 11:52:49 in 0.3.4 html escaping was off, in 0.3.5 it is on by default Jul 17 11:53:00 i fought with that for a while with drnull the other day :) Jul 17 11:53:02 blu: this is discussed in #webos Jul 17 11:54:23 i am not sure why but it seems the auto html escaping breaks things. I do not see the point of turning it off with the - if you have to do it for all variables heh. they need to fix that :) Jul 17 11:55:48 blau-mikeDG: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1756 and http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?sid=5f61805c512bccef7ec3d8cc3e15565d&lastaction=login&f=7&t=63 Jul 17 11:56:27 does public sdk include emulator? Jul 17 11:56:44 tmzt: yes Jul 17 11:57:15 x86 only? Jul 17 11:57:32 its always been x86 only i thought Jul 17 11:57:44 i couldnt find palm host though Jul 17 11:57:51 I mean no arm version Jul 17 11:57:55 palm host? Jul 17 11:58:10 no arm version of webos Jul 17 11:58:49 the thing that lets you run stuff in safari Jul 17 11:58:55 i didnt see palm host in the public release, but you can get it in the developer section Jul 17 11:59:03 or could not sure if it is closed now or not :) Jul 17 11:59:19 its still open Jul 17 11:59:31 so you can get it then :) Jul 17 11:59:50 well the rest of the world cant Jul 17 12:00:25 right Jul 17 12:00:43 i thought you were saying you couldnt get it :) Jul 17 12:00:55 what is palm host? Jul 17 12:01:09 i thought(hoped) they might have updated it Jul 17 12:01:11 tmzt: it allows you to open apps in any webkit powered browser for your debugging Jul 17 12:01:27 to make it more stable, ive had a billion crashes with safari and it Jul 17 12:01:35 ah Jul 17 12:01:38 okay Jul 17 12:01:40 tmzt: emulator is qemux86 Jul 17 12:01:45 doctor is armel Jul 17 12:04:31 i wonder if using the location services you can calculate things like rate at which the person is travelling etc. Jul 17 12:04:57 craw: certainly Jul 17 12:04:58 wondering because if so I might create a running application for the pre kinda like apples nike+ stuff Jul 17 12:05:12 theres an app like that for android Jul 17 12:05:29 anyone here interested in working on teh app with me :D Jul 17 12:05:29 My Tracks Jul 17 12:06:14 i think im gonna open source my shortcut app now Jul 17 12:06:19 its probably the only way its gonna get distributed Jul 17 12:06:33 since it requires com.palm.* packaging Jul 17 12:06:50 shortcut app? Jul 17 12:06:59 i think most apps should be open source :D Jul 17 12:07:07 except the larger apps Jul 17 12:07:22 but i do not condone charging $0.99 for a fart app etc. Jul 17 12:07:24 heh Jul 17 12:07:28 jc: http://webos.mikedg.com Jul 17 12:07:28 the second 3 pics Jul 17 12:07:57 nice Jul 17 12:08:40 i wish the apps would display all the service requests they do Jul 17 12:08:49 and let the user decide if they still want to install Jul 17 12:09:08 install of preventing everything for now Jul 17 12:09:19 its retarded that i cant get a list of installed apps Jul 17 12:09:41 yea Jul 17 12:09:49 also can you move apps from page to page? Jul 17 12:09:51 ipkg list Jul 17 12:10:04 when for instance you are looking at the app screen and slide left to get to the sprint stuff, etc Jul 17 12:10:15 can you move apps like you can on the iphone? Or even create more pages for apps Jul 17 12:10:32 programatically? Jul 17 12:10:37 blau-mikeDG: no Jul 17 12:10:42 UI matically :) Jul 17 12:10:45 you can move apps manually Jul 17 12:10:51 press and hold the icon Jul 17 12:11:03 on the iphone you just tap and hold the app icon then they can all be moved around Jul 17 12:11:07 tmzt: programatically i mean for the list Jul 17 12:11:16 ah Jul 17 12:11:24 parse status maybe Jul 17 12:11:26 jcrawford: the movement on here is more like android, you press and hold, then the single icon becomes moveable Jul 17 12:11:40 tmzt: well i can do it, i just cant do it without being named com.palm.someapp Jul 17 12:11:54 blau-mikeDG: cool Jul 17 12:11:56 oh Jul 17 12:11:58 wow Jul 17 12:12:03 how about creating a 4th page for apps? Jul 17 12:12:18 is that possible? I noticed I could not create a new one by dragging over Jul 17 12:12:18 so this security tuff is based on packages? Jul 17 12:12:53 4th page you need to root your phone and uncomment a few lines Jul 17 12:12:58 but then you can add and delete pages Jul 17 12:13:01 tmzt: currently it is Jul 17 12:13:33 basiclaly what ive been able to find is that that service requests function like luna-send Jul 17 12:13:48 com.palm can go over private bus, everything else is public Jul 17 12:13:54 public is greatly limited Jul 17 12:14:08 bah dgmoney isnt running in palm host :( Jul 17 12:15:26 blau-mikeDG: how do i add and delete pages, already have ssh access to my phone Jul 17 12:15:44 oh also the palm-generate seems to be generating syntactically incorrect code :D Jul 17 12:15:49 check the predev wiki Jul 17 12:16:11 it does the assistant files but fails to put the ; after the = function {}; Jul 17 12:16:15 thanks blau-mikeDG Jul 17 12:16:52 weird, apps running on palm host are bitching about openDatabase not being defined :( Jul 17 12:17:23 haha running apache on the pre :D Jul 17 12:17:25 very nice Jul 17 12:23:50 so when modifying palms apps like the Camera mods, how can i test it in the emulator if the app already exists on there and you cannot delete it? Jul 17 12:24:12 change the package name? Jul 17 12:24:28 you might not even have to actually Jul 17 12:24:41 did you try just using palm-install and launch? Jul 17 12:24:45 no Jul 17 12:24:47 trying now Jul 17 12:25:31 hit a crappy bug in my money app today :( Jul 17 12:25:39 one of the scheduled items got made twice :( Jul 17 12:25:44 but not all of them Jul 17 12:26:48 nope that doe snot work, just loads the default camera app i think Jul 17 12:27:13 you can just change the package name then Jul 17 12:27:15 and use that for testing Jul 17 12:36:07 how do you change the package name? I changed the id but that did not seem to work Jul 17 12:36:17 got it to install to the device but it would not start up the app Jul 17 12:36:26 also can you not test the camera with the emulator? Jul 17 12:36:37 even the palm app would not start up the webcam Jul 17 12:38:03 crawford: it still has to be named com.palm.something Jul 17 12:38:08 did you do that? Jul 17 12:48:58 i named it com.jcrawford.app.camera Jul 17 12:49:11 changed it in both appinfo.json files Jul 17 12:49:17 got it to package and install just would not launch Jul 17 12:50:02 well i guess i need to learn the patch / diff commands anyway in order to know where to patch heh Jul 17 12:50:22 these application patches should be released as files you replace rather than diffs etc. Jul 17 12:50:29 the camera crap is limite dot palm only apps, so it needs to be com.palm. Jul 17 12:50:32 would make it easy for idiots like me :) Jul 17 12:50:41 ah let me try that then Jul 17 12:51:46 people are worried about angering palm Jul 17 12:53:09 jcrawford: we can't release files. Those files have a palm copyright on them, and if we were to post files that you had to download in replace, we would be redistributing something we didn't have the rights to redistribute Jul 17 12:53:24 summatusmentis: yea i thought about that after i said it :D Jul 17 12:53:38 so that's why we patch :) Jul 17 12:53:40 guess the idiots like me just have to learn how to use patch / diff heh Jul 17 12:54:29 is there a tutorial on that in the wiki? Jul 17 12:56:59 I don't know that there is Jul 17 12:57:08 but there are tutorials all over the internet Jul 17 14:38:13 wooooooooooooooooooooh Jul 17 14:38:20 i got a PColor32 working Jul 17 14:38:25 :D :D Jul 17 14:38:30 i can set FillColor now Jul 17 14:40:24 but the colors seem to change when i get a notification Jul 17 14:42:23 Puff Whoo Hoo!!! and DARN! :-) Jul 17 14:42:26 you're getting there. Jul 17 14:49:16 but it likes to crash more often now Jul 17 14:49:23 idk why though Jul 17 14:50:35 it crashes if i try scrolling the card Jul 17 14:50:39 or if a notification shows up Jul 17 14:51:08 well, being able to break something is an important step too. when you break things, the parts inside sometimes show... Jul 17 14:51:29 * PuffTheMagic keeps breaking it Jul 17 14:51:35 it would help if i could get stdout Jul 17 14:51:43 or stderr Jul 17 14:51:54 i know destinal-sleep mentioned it Jul 17 14:51:56 what? they're trapping theerrors? Jul 17 14:52:18 there is a way to get std* output if you are ssh'ed into the root i think Jul 17 14:52:28 something about an initctl or something Jul 17 14:54:44 using diff is at http://tinyurl.com/l3h8yn Jul 17 14:56:37 If that is worthy of adding to the infobot, can someone else do that? - the bot usage is yet a bit unclear to me Jul 17 14:58:27 i have asuggestion Jul 17 14:58:32 dont use long options Jul 17 14:58:36 change it to diff -urN Jul 17 15:00:07 PuffTheMagic if Des mentioned it it wasn't inthe last 24 hours. I just checked the logs. Jul 17 15:00:20 PuffTheMagic: I think he said to do "initctl stop LunaSysMgr && LunaSysMgr" (i.e., stop the background LunaSysMgr and start it in the foreground), but I'm not sure if that gives you anything different than just tailing the /var/log/messages Jul 17 15:00:44 naaa he mentioned something about better debugging Jul 17 15:00:54 cause he has some printf statements in the default draw function Jul 17 15:00:58 which dump some info Jul 17 15:01:42 again, he didn't say that in the last 24 hours. Jul 17 15:05:27 All I could find: Jul 06 04:37:15 hey, that's cool. initctl stop LunaSysMgr; pkill -9 LunaSysMgr; LunaSysMgr puts all of luna's stdout and stderr on your terminal -- good for troubleshooting Jul 17 15:06:00 And: Jul 16 19:50:43 PuffTheMagic: you can debug better if you initctcl stop LunaSysMgr; LunaSysMgr Jul 17 15:06:10 yeah ok Jul 17 15:06:11 so it was that Jul 17 15:09:59 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31945916/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/ Jul 17 15:10:09 i wonder who will be the first to add Google OS to their phone Jul 17 15:10:21 PuffTheMagic: thanks... should I start a wiki page here regarding Diff? I can do that, if you can review later on Jul 17 15:10:23 pre i mean Jul 17 15:11:21 FreeTim3: may as well... i mean i've been using linux for like 10 years as my only OS... so diff is like 2nd nature to me, but Im sure some of those windows folks dont know it Jul 17 15:15:25 Is diff for generating the diff snippets that are all over the wiki? Jul 17 15:15:49 (let me rephrase... I know what diff is used for, just wondering if that's what you're suggesting it be used for in this context) Jul 17 15:15:49 yes Jul 17 15:15:50 yes, and for others' use in merging in differences / patches Jul 17 15:15:53 oh Jul 17 15:16:35 Why not just use quilt so that we can have the patches in a central repo and easily pop/push them during upgrades? Jul 17 15:17:09 Or is this for something completely unrelated? Jul 17 15:19:53 quilt is for managing a series of patches Jul 17 15:19:59 not really useful for anyone Jul 17 15:20:08 esp since most devs are using git Jul 17 15:20:30 if I had like 100 patches that needed to applied in order then quilt would work Jul 17 15:22:19 saying it's not useful for anyone is a little silly Jul 17 15:22:40 it's useful for when you are modifying code that doesn't belong to you and aren't storing in your own repository Jul 17 15:24:58 bpadalino: why not just use git locally Jul 17 15:25:01 its much easier Jul 17 15:25:14 git init; git add .; git commit -a -m "initial seed" Jul 17 15:25:17 then start working Jul 17 15:25:22 have git track your changes Jul 17 15:25:59 you dont need a remote repo to push to to use git Jul 17 15:26:45 i understand that part - but quilt seems to be easier for adding multiple patches, and removing them without affecting others Jul 17 15:28:57 unfortunately both have a pretty decent amount of dependencies Jul 17 15:30:48 either way - to say quilt is useless is, as i said before, silly Jul 17 15:31:29 does the pre rootfs had rsync on it Jul 17 15:31:50 if so... i would just keep a clone of the pre root on my desktop/laptop and do all the patching to it there Jul 17 15:31:57 then rsync it back onto the pre Jul 17 15:32:18 i suppose when the tool you know is a hammer, everything looks like a nail Jul 17 15:33:02 rsync is on the pre, btw Jul 17 15:33:22 bpadalino: i used quilt for a long time, but since I have switched to git i have no use for it, esp since there are guilt and other quilt like addons for git Jul 17 15:33:39 but i guess for a non dev who needs to manage patches it would be easier Jul 17 15:34:05 cherry picking commits from git is easy too though Jul 17 15:35:04 bpadalino: but I will concede to it beeing not completly useless Jul 17 15:36:46 when you have a large root filesystem where a lot of different files may be slightly updated (/etc, for example) - it's easier to just have small patches which modify appropriate files without putting it all under revision control .. all while maintaining the ability to remove said patches Jul 17 15:43:25 destinal: i got setFillColor and setStrokeColor working :D Jul 17 15:43:31 PuffTheMagic: nice Jul 17 15:44:14 what did you have to do? Jul 17 15:44:16 http://dpaste.com/68266/ Jul 17 15:44:25 make a fake prototype for PColor32 Jul 17 15:44:26 oh, cool Jul 17 15:44:34 my c++ is rusty and horrid Jul 17 15:44:45 and my attempts yesterday didnt work Jul 17 15:44:47 but this am Jul 17 15:44:49 bingo Jul 17 15:44:57 but it acts weird Jul 17 15:45:04 colors dont seem to be what i choose Jul 17 15:45:05 they change Jul 17 15:45:10 it crashes some times Jul 17 15:45:12 :) Jul 17 15:45:19 try unsigned ints for rgba also Jul 17 15:45:26 err uint32's Jul 17 15:45:49 look at the casting of the screenbuffer array to see what I mean Jul 17 15:47:30 well all the .cpp files that call PColor32( seem to use normal ints Jul 17 15:48:17 ah Jul 17 15:49:13 so you still think we have all of piranha except some defs? Jul 17 15:50:15 hello all Jul 17 15:50:31 is the pre linux based or windows ? Jul 17 15:50:37 destinal: yeah for the most part Jul 17 15:52:24 destinal: do you have any idea what ->push() and ->pop() might do Jul 17 15:54:24 ah Jul 17 15:54:29 I have a guess. Jul 17 15:55:13 It may be for something like when the system wants to draw over a rectangle it might take the current rectangle in that area and push it onto a stack, then draw there, then when done, pop what _was_ there back Jul 17 15:55:34 aryr100: webOS is linux-based Jul 17 15:56:10 remember luna's not giving us exclusive rights to draw Jul 17 15:56:17 it will jump in and do things as needed Jul 17 15:56:22 yeah i can tell Jul 17 15:56:28 as my colors change with out my control Jul 17 15:56:37 oh? Jul 17 15:56:43 that sounds....exciting? Jul 17 15:58:52 sugardave|work: hehe Jul 17 15:59:16 PuffTheMagic: any progress on the character drawing stuff with fonts? Jul 17 15:59:50 not yet, i am trying to get PVertex2D working Jul 17 15:59:57 so that elipses and shit work Jul 17 16:00:22 yeah if we can mostly stick to high level access I think luna will do most of the work for us Jul 17 16:01:08 but there are also probably functions for sending an arbitrary pixmap as opposed to doing it in a raw mode Jul 17 16:01:24 yeah there are ways to do pixmaps im sure Jul 17 16:02:08 so far I have rectangles, roundrectangles, polygons, fillColor, and strokeColor working in the basicplugin example Jul 17 16:02:26 i will go back to the font thing soon Jul 17 16:03:46 anyone know of the app gopayment ? there is a bluetooth card that comes with it intuit says its waiting on palm for the support ? Jul 17 16:09:42 destinal: http://omploader.org/vMXpyNg Jul 17 16:09:49 ^^ my primitives and colors Jul 17 16:14:28 hmm trying to start LunaSysMgr segfaults Jul 17 16:26:54 destinal: i think writing the blue color to that buffer was causing the crash Jul 17 16:29:59 PuffTheMagic: you're writing directly to a framebuffer, within WebOS? Jul 17 16:30:03 is that what I'm seeing? Jul 17 16:30:28 I haven't really been paying attention Jul 17 16:30:29 i am using some undocumented graphics lib via a nsplugin Jul 17 16:30:36 cool Jul 17 16:53:25 do i need to d/l a cross-compiler to compile plugin? Jul 17 16:53:32 at some point yet Jul 17 16:53:32 hi Jul 17 16:53:35 dl or build your own Jul 17 16:53:42 iTunes 8.2.1 provides a number of important bug fixes and addresses an issue with verification of Apple devices. Jul 17 16:53:48 don't update Jul 17 16:54:00 where can i d/l compiler for? Jul 17 16:54:01 I believe it breaks the pre from syncing with iTunes Jul 17 16:54:23 destinal: where did you say the classic emulator mojo code was sitting? Jul 17 16:55:26 does the osx-build-install.sh (from cross-compilation) d/l as well? Jul 17 16:56:11 no - doesn't work i am pretty sure Jul 17 16:56:15 unless it's been updated Jul 17 16:56:29 you're honestly better running a linux vm Jul 17 16:56:51 than trying to get osx to be your environment, i am pretty sure Jul 17 16:57:19 i have a linux box as well, my q. is where to d/l the CC? Jul 17 16:57:37 Zuchmir2: if u run gentoo u can use crossdev to build an arm toolchain in like 20 min Jul 17 16:59:01 there should be linux cross compiling instructions for the opt repository we all use Jul 17 16:59:06 i forgot where rwhitby put them Jul 17 16:59:15 but i would guess on that same cross compiling page Jul 17 16:59:29 i downloaded applications, and just followed instruction from http://predev.wikidot.com/browser-plugins, it did not mention anything about C/C Jul 17 16:59:29 but since there is nothing worth building yet Jul 17 16:59:52 Zuchmir2: cause we are just using the emulator right now Jul 17 16:59:59 which is a x86 build Jul 17 17:00:05 cross-compilation.git had only 2 files (both for OSX) Jul 17 17:00:13 yeah - and they are both terrible Jul 17 17:00:17 my bad Jul 17 17:00:51 http://predev.wikidot.com/optware-cross-compilation Jul 17 17:00:55 for linux instructions Jul 17 17:01:08 Zuchmir2: i would just wait till there is something worth building Jul 17 17:06:14 ok, i tried it on the device and it didn't work, and was wondering why :-), i thought it probably had todo w/CC Jul 17 17:19:16 hmm, when i do "make hello-dirclean hello-check", here's what the error/log says: http://pastebin.com/d53e663a5 Jul 17 17:19:27 at least my bug is failing reliably :) Jul 17 17:20:39 Zuchmir2: what exactly are you trying to do? Jul 17 17:21:58 using the optware toolchain to build something ? Jul 17 17:22:25 just following instructions @ http://predev.wikidot.com/optware-cross-compilation Jul 17 17:23:34 why do u need the CC, there is nothing to build with it Jul 17 17:23:45 there is 1 plugin so far .. and it draws a blue screen Jul 17 17:24:07 i want to make my own plugin Jul 17 17:24:16 use the emulator right now Jul 17 17:24:21 and develop in that Jul 17 17:24:30 then when u get something working... worry about the CC Jul 17 17:24:46 let the guy do what he wants to do Jul 17 17:25:52 http://pastebin.com/d79034b26 Jul 17 17:26:01 Zuchmir2, rwhitby would be the one to answer your questions .. he's in australia and sleeping - but he will probably be back in a couple hours Jul 17 17:26:18 ok, thanks Jul 17 17:31:13 ok, i see the problem, those are precompiled binaries for "ELF 32-bit", and my system is using "ELF 64-bit" :-( Jul 17 17:36:12 wsup people Jul 17 17:36:59 i figured out how to make a google voice app i believe but it would support checking the voicemail Jul 17 17:37:03 only calling out Jul 17 17:37:10 would not ** Jul 17 17:37:31 im so baffled with this bug :( Jul 17 17:37:37 I expect there'll be an oficial google voice app soon enough Jul 17 17:38:10 you think Jul 17 17:38:10 ? Jul 17 17:38:17 i was tyring to work on a google voice app Jul 17 17:38:24 but ic ant get cookies to work with Ajax.request Jul 17 17:38:32 :( Jul 17 17:38:52 yea i know a few months ago i had made some php apps to auto login to google and do a few things Jul 17 17:39:14 i would just have to change that to google voice and have it send a ajax request packet to connect the call Jul 17 17:39:30 i got logging in working Jul 17 17:39:39 yea same here then you just have to regex Jul 17 17:39:53 and i grab the auth token Jul 17 17:39:57 out this variable _rnr_se Jul 17 17:39:57 and then im stuck Jul 17 17:40:16 after the token regex the index page for _rnr_se Jul 17 17:40:22 then get the value of it Jul 17 17:40:38 and then Jul 17 17:40:46 heres the post values to https://www.google.com/voice/call/connect/ Jul 17 17:41:13 outgoingNumber=(555)%20555-5555&forwardingNumber=%2B15555555555&subscriberNumber=undefined&remember=0&_rnr_se=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Jul 17 17:42:02 then it will call the number Jul 17 17:42:07 stupid asynch sql :( Jul 17 17:42:30 lol Jul 17 17:43:23 you guys working on a google voice app? Jul 17 17:43:32 i was going to start writing one Jul 17 17:43:47 there isnt a number you can call you initiate a phone call? like skypeout Jul 17 17:44:00 yea theres already a hack for that Jul 17 17:44:10 to edit the dailer Jul 17 17:44:15 it works good? Jul 17 17:44:17 but for the people who dont feel safe with that Jul 17 17:44:21 yea it works good Jul 17 17:44:26 you just have to wait for the phone Jul 17 17:44:27 its in the wiki? Jul 17 17:44:28 to dail etc Jul 17 17:44:33 yea it is Jul 17 17:44:38 but heres my concept for the app Jul 17 17:44:43 tell me about it Jul 17 17:44:48 google has a connect button on there website Jul 17 17:45:06 which you enter the number and it will call you and auto connect Jul 17 17:45:16 dont have to enter anything after you tell it to connect Jul 17 17:45:28 so i can get it working via php just have to make it into a mojo app Jul 17 17:45:50 what you do is send ajax request to google voice to have it login Jul 17 17:45:58 then you simulate the form Jul 17 17:46:09 by sending it all the values and it will call you Jul 17 17:46:17 why dont you just keep it on your php file on your servera Jul 17 17:46:18 [13:40] heres the post values to https://www.google.com/voice/call/connect/ Jul 17 17:46:25 and your mojo app can send an ajax to your php Jul 17 17:46:32 Because why would i have peoples phones polling my server Jul 17 17:46:34 ? Jul 17 17:46:42 when i can just have their phones do it Jul 17 17:47:00 i guess Jul 17 17:47:04 just a matter of having regex sift out some info Jul 17 17:47:05 so whats the issue with getting mojo working on it Jul 17 17:47:08 would be easy Jul 17 17:47:32 i cant figure out cookies :( Jul 17 17:47:37 otherwise id be working hard on it Jul 17 17:47:44 cookies for ajax? Jul 17 17:48:00 im pretty good with data scraping and regex, if you need help Jul 17 17:48:44 i was able to post the login info for client login Jul 17 17:48:51 and i get 3 parameters back Jul 17 17:48:54 ya Jul 17 17:49:00 i need to shove one of them into a cookie, gv Jul 17 17:49:13 whats the issue with that Jul 17 17:49:18 and then access another page via ajax Jul 17 17:49:26 i dont know how to make the cookie Jul 17 17:49:35 you already have the data you need right Jul 17 17:49:45 just need to shove it into cookie? Jul 17 17:49:49 i tried document.cookie = "gv=" + transport.responseText.substring(start, end) + "; path=/voice; domain=www.google.com; secure; HttpOnly"; Jul 17 17:49:49 Jul 17 17:49:51 right Jul 17 17:51:27 whats the ajax function call? ill look at the Js to see if u can put cookies in params Jul 17 17:51:56 Ajax.Request ? Jul 17 17:52:03 ok Jul 17 17:52:13 i tried just setting Cookie in the header, but js bitched about unsafe Jul 17 17:52:17 ok banck Jul 17 17:52:35 you get the auth right Jul 17 17:52:39 hey guys i need help i just rooted the palm pre and now im doing the steps they said to do after in http://predev.wikidot.com/next-steps-after-rooting but im stuck on step 8 Jul 17 17:53:16 is there any reason optware is using arm-2008q1-126-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.bz2 vs. arm-2009q1-203-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.bz2 ? Jul 17 17:53:56 step 8 states for the root shell session that your using ipkg-opt, add /opt/bin to the front of your path... what does that mean Jul 17 17:54:50 blau-mikeDG :you get the auth right Jul 17 17:54:55 what's the port that ssh runs on again? 222? Jul 17 17:54:59 or was it 8022? Jul 17 17:55:10 222 Jul 17 17:55:19 thanks Jul 17 17:55:35 blau-mikeDG: just append the auth to the url .com/?auth=authcodehere Jul 17 17:55:53 and pass the post parmeters Jul 17 17:56:40 atlanta: right i get back auth after making an appropriate post to https://www.google.com/accounts/ClientLogin Jul 17 17:57:09 roar Jul 17 17:57:15 lol Jul 17 17:57:19 yea then Jul 17 17:57:40 just add auth to the end out the url so it would be .. https://www.google.com/voice/call/connect/?auth=280efjf43j Jul 17 17:57:46 putty says root@castle:/# export PATH=/opt/bin:$PATH can someone help me what do i do...do i press enter?or am i supposed to type something? Jul 17 17:58:01 press enter Jul 17 17:58:12 go to the basic linux usage part in the wiki Jul 17 17:58:22 seems like your on the road to messing something up Jul 17 17:58:53 thank you Jul 17 17:59:03 np Jul 17 18:00:01 blau-mikeDG: you got AIM? Jul 17 18:00:07 atlanta: wow that was easy, do all cookies work that way? Jul 17 18:00:18 atlanta: i do, but dont really usse it, mostly use google talk Jul 17 18:00:30 well the way google interprets either way Jul 17 18:00:43 so you can append it Jul 17 18:00:54 did alot of research with curl awhile back Jul 17 18:01:08 send me your gtalk Jul 17 18:02:37 are you guys planning on making a new dial page to call GV Jul 17 18:02:50 that'd be cool Jul 17 18:04:14 well an app to do it yea Jul 17 18:04:37 im probably going to make it like GV for Android Jul 17 18:04:40 thts my inspiration Jul 17 18:05:13 i was thinking of a way to grab the mp3's from the site and download and play Jul 17 18:05:24 but didnt get to go into it so muich Jul 17 18:05:53 thanks all Jul 17 18:06:30 so yea it would be another dail page Jul 17 18:06:37 just it will dail you Jul 17 18:07:35 well doesnt the person trying to dial need to dial the number, unless its a direct click on a contact Jul 17 18:07:50 and then you just send the # to GV Jul 17 18:08:18 raja_: yea they do have to dail the number Jul 17 18:08:29 i havent look through the mojo api but maybe we can link it to the contact list Jul 17 18:08:32 that would be ideal Jul 17 18:09:00 the contact thing is very limited, im not even sure you can get phone numbers from it Jul 17 18:09:07 i could be wrong though Jul 17 18:09:14 yea i believe it is Jul 17 18:09:16 along with sms Jul 17 18:09:56 maybe have an edit in the contact app to add a GV button that will call our app Jul 17 18:10:07 who knows im going to get the basic one working later when i get a chance Jul 17 18:10:28 passwd is what's used to change a user's password, right? Jul 17 18:10:33 yup Jul 17 18:11:03 is it passwd username? Jul 17 18:11:06 yup Jul 17 18:11:44 for some reason it doesn't work Jul 17 18:12:28 passwd: cannot update password file /etc/passwd Jul 17 18:12:28 root@castle:/# Jul 17 18:12:44 anyone ever have that? Jul 17 18:15:32 now to solve my issue in my other app :( Jul 17 18:16:27 Technobabble: can you write to any file? Jul 17 18:16:35 oh.... Jul 17 18:16:45 yeah, probably forgot that critcal step, huh? Jul 17 18:17:12 what is it again? root_fs -w ? Jul 17 18:19:20 Heya guys, has anyone had luck connecting to a WPA2-Enterprise wireless network on the Pre? Our network here uses PEAP with EAP-MSCHAP v2 authentication Jul 17 18:19:23 whats the issue in that other app blau-mikeDG Jul 17 18:19:29 you can do mount -o remount,rm / and then mount -o remount,ro / Jul 17 18:22:50 thanks gkatsev Jul 17 18:23:08 um... rw not rm Jul 17 18:23:18 lol Jul 17 18:23:36 yeah, i figured Jul 17 18:23:45 rm and / don't usually go together Jul 17 18:23:55 yeah Jul 17 18:24:05 hahah i will be able to access the voicemail in the google app also Jul 17 18:24:18 the mobile site was lovely enough to give me a direct link to it Jul 17 18:24:22 atl, what are you workin on? Jul 17 18:24:35 Well just the basis for the google voice app Jul 17 18:25:18 is that like a google version of skype? Jul 17 18:25:24 not really Jul 17 18:25:27 google.com/voice Jul 17 18:25:28 check it out Jul 17 18:25:41 http://www.google.com/googlevoice/about.html Jul 17 18:27:06 aw w so many ideas running through my head Jul 17 18:27:30 google voice is cool, i got my username as my phone number Jul 17 18:27:36 heheheh Jul 17 18:27:42 cool Jul 17 18:27:50 hopefully i can start an app this weekend Jul 17 18:27:52 (area-code)-GKA-TSEV Jul 17 18:28:20 shoot i probably could have got area code atlanta Jul 17 18:28:26 didnt even think of it Jul 17 18:28:45 well, yeah, atlanta is 7 chars Jul 17 18:28:54 yup yup Jul 17 18:28:56 lol Jul 17 18:29:36 listen in on calls before taking them? tghat's genius Jul 17 18:29:45 i got google voice before we could pick phone numbers :( Jul 17 18:30:06 ugh, finally got my pc restored. note to self, dont attempt to format sd cards while half asleep.....and formatting winblows parition. Jul 17 18:30:28 binary, yikes Jul 17 18:30:54 hehe it was an honest mistake, luckily all my data is backed up so nothign was lost..just downtime. Jul 17 18:31:53 blau-mikeDG: you should be able to change it, if you want (once) Jul 17 18:32:20 oh really? Jul 17 18:32:37 yeah, i believe so Jul 17 18:32:52 ahh yeah as of july 1 Jul 17 18:33:01 yep Jul 17 18:33:33 unfortunately, i couldnt get gkatsev in my area code (greater boston area) Jul 17 18:34:06 thanks Jul 17 18:34:50 i want 732fuckbag Jul 17 18:35:05 a friend of mine has 1337 as the last four digits Jul 17 18:35:33 $10 fee :( Jul 17 18:35:42 to change the number? aww Jul 17 18:36:55 ooo 724 2mikedg Jul 17 18:37:18 559 4mikedg Jul 17 18:38:17 no identical 5 digit numbers :( Jul 17 18:39:30 lots of cock numbers Jul 17 18:39:30 lol Jul 17 18:39:55 what issues would arise if i didnt remount my fs as RO after making changes? I read a post on the forums that from my understanding suggests it could affect commands from being ran....and i still havnt found out why the luna-send rescan command stopped working. Jul 17 18:40:45 260 3dicks1 Jul 17 18:42:21 luna send should only work in dev mode? Jul 17 18:42:31 thats a statement/question lol Jul 17 18:49:42 binary_tech, I haven'jt seen any problems, and if you reboot your phone it comes back up in RW anyway Jul 17 18:51:34 psykoz: dont you mean it comes back up as ro? Jul 17 18:51:46 yes, thanks for the correction Jul 17 18:52:23 binary_tech, the biggest problem with leaving your filesystem RW is mostly ext3 sucks ;) and the way people keep it from sucking is not allowing you to do anything to it but that's a conversation for another day Jul 17 18:52:50 ok i think i'm gonna run web dr to see if it fixes the issue and then test it after each mofification. Jul 17 18:53:18 first and foremost Jul 17 18:53:21 what commands are you unable to run? Jul 17 18:53:28 can you pastebin some examples? Jul 17 18:53:44 can you pastebin ls -la of the directory those commands are in so we can see permissions/owner/group etc.. Jul 17 18:54:24 only the luna rescan command. the one posted on the wiki. it says it was successful and responds with a code as it should but my laucher just dont refresh. only way it will refresh is if I shut down and restart luna or reboot Jul 17 18:55:05 Can you paste me in privmsg what you're running, and what the output is? Jul 17 18:55:18 yea give me a minute to setup Jul 17 18:56:20 or pastebin Jul 17 18:56:21 ext3 sucks? Jul 17 18:56:23 heh Jul 17 18:56:34 I've been using it for years :) Jul 17 18:57:25 i like ext4 Jul 17 18:57:30 really quick Jul 17 18:57:31 guys is there a way to make it so that sbin is always in my user path? Jul 17 18:57:31 http://pastebin.com/m1f2f8ff1 Jul 17 18:57:35 ext3 definitely isnt' the greatest filesystem if you actually love your data Jul 17 18:57:35 on the pre i mean Jul 17 18:57:37 when i ssh in Jul 17 18:57:46 getting sick of having to type /sbin/initctl Jul 17 18:58:00 upi dpm Jul 17 18:58:02 I would more than prefer ufs or zfs over ext3 anyday Jul 17 18:58:04 err you don't need to Jul 17 18:58:09 jcrawford: the easiest way it to enable bash, and then add it in the ~/.bashrc file Jul 17 18:58:10 stop service Jul 17 18:58:14 and start service work Jul 17 18:58:19 if you do sudo su - Jul 17 18:58:19 first Jul 17 18:58:41 the su - gets you root's environment which has /sbin in the path Jul 17 19:00:21 binary_tech, I've seen that command not work before on my phone as well, I also think I executed it without -n 1 once and it worked. I also had to reboot my phone once because it didn't work but then it did work after rebooting Jul 17 19:00:37 binary_tech, my guess is don't waste your time with reinstalling your phone's firmware Jul 17 19:00:45 I've never lost data with an ext fs Jul 17 19:01:22 hmm Jul 17 19:01:28 but heh, hdds suck no matter what Jul 17 19:01:32 i cannot get the camera controls addition to work on my pre Jul 17 19:01:38 the button for the timed capture does not show up Jul 17 19:01:39 I love how fast the pre is b/c ssd :) Jul 17 19:02:01 so you think i should just keep using the shutdown/restart luna command instead? Jul 17 19:02:14 what command isn't working? Jul 17 19:02:23 i'd hate to restore and have to redo my changes if it wont fix the issue. Jul 17 19:02:46 luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {} Jul 17 19:02:53 that was for jwm Jul 17 19:02:53 anyone here have this hack working on their pre? Jul 17 19:03:37 I haven't played with luna at all yet Jul 17 19:03:40 is that rescan command located somewere that I could look at how its called? i'm guessing its in the applicationmanager? Jul 17 19:03:50 type which luna-send Jul 17 19:04:19 it will refresh fine if i use the sdk to install apps but its honestly faster to just sftp and rescan then package with sdk then install lol Jul 17 19:06:00 yea Binary_Tech try stop LunaSysMgr Jul 17 19:06:02 and then start it Jul 17 19:06:05 see what you get Jul 17 19:07:24 that works fine. its what i've been using since other one dont work but it just takes so long to boot. thats only reason id like to fix it. Jul 17 19:08:59 what happens when you try to rescan Jul 17 19:08:59 ? Jul 17 19:09:00 I get an invalid synta for that Jul 17 19:09:03 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {} Jul 17 19:09:37 you should be doing /usr/bin/luna-send palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {} Jul 17 19:09:40 /usr/bin/luna-send palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {} Jul 17 19:10:04 hum my battery indicator looked like an empty battery with a ? inside it Jul 17 19:10:08 wtf would cause that? Jul 17 19:10:16 invalid charger Jul 17 19:10:20 i believe Jul 17 19:10:21 or battery Jul 17 19:10:29 forgot which one Jul 17 19:10:37 where's ipkg-opt or whatever we're using to install again?> Jul 17 19:10:38 well it's not on the charger Jul 17 19:10:44 and the battery is powering the device just fine Jul 17 19:10:55 does rooting it cause that? Jul 17 19:11:28 Technobabble: /opt/bin Jul 17 19:11:30 should be Jul 17 19:11:37 and jcrawford try restarting your device Jul 17 19:11:46 atl, thanks again Jul 17 19:11:49 just rebooted it Jul 17 19:12:14 np Jul 17 19:12:15 has anyone here successfully implemented the camera timer button hack? Jul 17 19:12:28 jcrawford: yea i had it a while back Jul 17 19:12:37 atlanta: but not now? Jul 17 19:12:51 I cannot seem to get it to show the button, followed the code changes exactly too Jul 17 19:12:52 well i havent reinstalled it Jul 17 19:13:03 guessing they did something in the latest os that broke it? Jul 17 19:14:07 not sure Jul 17 19:14:09 havent tried it Jul 17 19:14:12 what are you getting Jul 17 19:14:13 nothing Jul 17 19:14:15 ? Jul 17 19:15:39 yea the button is not showing Jul 17 19:15:48 i see the 10 for the 10 seconds above the normal capture button Jul 17 19:15:56 sometimes the buttons are upside down too Jul 17 19:16:04 also tapping the flash button does not do anything, etc. Jul 17 19:17:01 might want to undo the hack Jul 17 19:17:01 lol Jul 17 19:17:47 well i have a backup :D Jul 17 19:17:55 but blows i really wanted this hack lol Jul 17 19:18:27 awww just use the spacebar Jul 17 19:18:27 lol Jul 17 19:19:13 spacebar does it? Jul 17 19:19:30 now someone tells me that :D Jul 17 19:23:08 spacebar takes a 1 pic/s Jul 17 19:23:49 ah Jul 17 19:23:57 oh and that ? in the battery happens when you stop powerd Jul 17 19:26:10 my bad on the camera thing Jul 17 19:26:17 i think i missed an .bind(this) Jul 17 19:26:18 heh Jul 17 19:29:06 is there a way to reload my /etc/palm/autoreplace/en_us/text-edit-autoreplace after i make changes to it without a reboot? Jul 17 19:32:23 hey guys. Jul 17 19:33:57 hey dec Jul 17 19:34:19 whats up? Jul 17 19:34:36 just got done editing my autoreplace file Jul 17 19:34:49 cooll Jul 17 19:34:56 im just workin on a usb-installer GUI :) Jul 17 19:35:11 have it downloading a list of files from my repo Jul 17 19:48:14 any idea what all this means? Jul 17 19:48:15 2009-07-17T19:45:35.699788Z [207] qemux86 user.err LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgrJS} com.palm.app.xcamera: Error: EXCEPTION [Relaunch failed.], (Error): "requireDefined Failed: value was expected to be defined, but wasn't", file:///var/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.xcamera/index.html:0 Jul 17 19:51:28 AAAdexit Jul 17 19:54:54 hmm i take it the CameraControl object is a plugin, i can't seem to find the files for it in the application Jul 17 19:54:56 this.cameraControl = new CameraControl(appController, this); Jul 17 20:13:47 grr ok so the buttons on my camera seem to work now Jul 17 20:13:59 however i only have 1 button, not picking up on the second button i don't think Jul 17 20:14:05 guessing it is css related though Jul 17 20:14:53 can't load it in the emulator either gah Jul 17 20:18:40 whoops sorry Jul 17 20:25:22 who here is good with css :) Jul 17 20:25:27 this is the issue: http://pastebin.com/m8ed4a40 Jul 17 20:29:56 jcrawford: from a quick look, it looks correct, try running the CSS through some validator or something Jul 17 20:31:24 some odd reason it is not using the proper image Jul 17 20:31:39 there should be a purple icon liuke the green one, next to the green one :) Jul 17 20:32:57 im back Jul 17 20:34:03 time to get on the google voice app Jul 17 20:40:36 i dont recommend people use ipkg install to install apps Jul 17 20:40:55 atlanta: ipkg or ipkg-opt? Jul 17 20:41:00 either Jul 17 20:41:05 why not? Jul 17 20:41:08 it installs apps in the wrong place Jul 17 20:41:22 and some peoples phone don't allow them to remove the apps in /usr/palm/applications Jul 17 20:41:25 where does it install? Jul 17 20:41:39 /usr/palm/applications Jul 17 20:41:45 ipkg-opt? Jul 17 20:41:49 not on my phone... Jul 17 20:41:54 never tried ipkg-opt Jul 17 20:42:21 installs in the right place for u Jul 17 20:42:22 yeah, you want to use ipkg-opt because it will install in the /var/opt dir instead of /usr/palm/apps Jul 17 20:42:24 ? Jul 17 20:42:47 oh ok Jul 17 20:43:36 imma go fold some clothes then come back to work on the google voice app Jul 17 20:43:53 is there a status changer in ir Jul 17 20:43:55 irc Jul 17 20:43:55 ? Jul 17 20:44:04 /help away Jul 17 20:44:20 thanks Jul 17 20:44:22 though, it only shows it when someones msges you Jul 17 20:44:44 thats why a lot of people change their nicks to like gkatsev|away or something like, though, i dont like that Jul 17 20:44:57 how do you do that Jul 17 20:44:57 ? Jul 17 20:44:59 lol Jul 17 20:45:03 /help nick Jul 17 20:45:16 new to irc, eh? Jul 17 20:45:22 what program are you using, btw? Jul 17 20:46:06 there we go Jul 17 20:46:07 thanks Jul 17 20:46:11 np Jul 17 20:46:51 atlanta|AWAY: you shouldve changed to atlantaway. :D Jul 17 20:49:03 http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=878 Jul 17 20:49:07 opps Jul 17 20:49:08 wrong window Jul 17 20:59:26 anyone seen evandotpro recently? Jul 17 21:03:17 infobot: party Jul 17 21:03:18 Woohoo! Bot on the loose! Jul 17 21:13:43 yes Jul 17 21:31:49 just got done redoing my mods after a restore...my launcher rescan is working again. hopefully it keeps working lol Jul 17 22:46:36 morning Jul 17 22:53:21 hey has anyone messed with the optware package feed instructions? for some reason when i went to install the openssh-ftp server using the wiki page as usual, i try to do "ipkg-opt update" and get Jul 17 22:53:25 Downloading http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/pre/cross/unstable/Packages.gz Jul 17 22:53:25 Inflating http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/pre/cross/unstable/Packages.gz Jul 17 22:53:25 ipkg: Invalid gzip magic Jul 17 22:53:46 sorry pastebin says i'm a spammer or i would have used it lol Jul 17 22:54:34 i've done this step many times on multiple pre's with no issue but for some reason its failing this time. Jul 17 22:56:26 BinaryTech: there could be either a problem with the upload from the autobuilder, or a problem with your connection. Jul 17 22:56:51 BinaryTech: go to your desktop machine, download the Packages.gz file, and use gunzip to see if the problem is on the server Jul 17 23:01:14 ok thanks i'll try again when i get home. Jul 17 23:01:30 cool i'll try it now Jul 17 23:01:33 thanks again Jul 17 23:04:08 What version of mojo is in sdk62? (were getting ready to write the auto completion stuff for komodo). Jul 17 23:08:17 rwhiteby: i can see the file listed in the packages list, also i tried to download it directly from the browser using the filename listed in the packages file and it downloaded fine. anything else i can check for a fix? Jul 17 23:11:50 ok i got it, it was my connection, i guess it dont like aircards or something but its working fine off the work connection. Jul 17 23:14:12 hey all Jul 17 23:14:18 i ediited the forward message app Jul 17 23:14:20 http://predev.wikidot.com/forward-messages Jul 17 23:14:41 a showalertdialog now shows up to confirm you want to forward the message Jul 17 23:18:03 atlanta: is there a patch for that one? Jul 17 23:27:00 rwhitby: not sure Jul 17 23:27:06 you mean in git or whatever Jul 17 23:27:06 ? Jul 17 23:32:34 atlanta: yeah, in git. did you just change the wiki page (making the patch no longer match the page) or did you change the patch too? Jul 17 23:32:46 let me make a git now Jul 17 23:34:20 I think when we make a patch, we should take the comments from the wiki page and include them in the source code, and then remove the code from the wiki page so it doesn't get out of date. Jul 17 23:36:07 true Jul 17 23:36:21 because its to many locations Jul 17 23:36:23 right now Jul 17 23:36:46 rwhitby: anyway to commit a change from the site Jul 17 23:36:52 or i have to do it with commandline stuff Jul 17 23:37:37 or do you have to add me Jul 17 23:39:19 ooohhh, i got text to render Jul 17 23:39:21 once Jul 17 23:39:32 its as flukey as the colors Jul 17 23:43:47 WOW! Jul 17 23:43:51 Wow and Gosh Jul 17 23:44:22 and furthermore Pat Pat Pat Pat -- ATTA BOY!!! (or girl, or something else...) (((on the internet no one can tell that you're not human))) Jul 17 23:44:54 ah hell OTA will remove my patches? Jul 17 23:45:22 who here is good with graphics. I am going to create a patch for this camera hack that I found on the wiki, but I want a few images made for it so that it looks good :) Jul 17 23:47:34 ota will remove your patches of the THINGS IT UPDATES. Jul 17 23:47:39 we don't know what that is yet. Jul 17 23:47:51 what sort of images? Jul 17 23:48:57 well i patched my camer app so that I could have the timer delay button as well as the capture button Jul 17 23:49:07 is there a way to create new folders to move your pics into? Jul 17 23:49:42 but the camera app has an image that is called menu-bezel.png Jul 17 23:50:04 it's a translucent background but it is only setup for one of the round images, I need it to be setup for 2 Jul 17 23:50:06 nodnod Jul 17 23:50:15 sec i will show the image gotta upload it to my site sec Jul 17 23:50:51 scott put up the background somewhere Jul 17 23:51:41 simple enough. Jul 17 23:52:00 http://josephcrawford.com/pics/menu-bezel.png Jul 17 23:52:13 atlanta: send me your gitorious usernam Jul 17 23:52:29 atlanta Jul 17 23:52:41 so, you want FOUR bumps instead of 3 bumps? Jul 17 23:52:48 and the white is alpha-transparent? Jul 17 23:52:49 jcrawford: OTA will overwrite any palm stuff it pleases. that's why we use quilt. Jul 17 23:53:27 atlanta: done Jul 17 23:53:35 Rick__: so it looks good with this Jul 17 23:53:41 http://josephcrawford.com/pics/xcamera_2009-17-07_164650.jpg Jul 17 23:54:13 i just duplicated the image for the capture and changed the hue to make it purple Jul 17 23:54:18 can make a better one if you want lol Jul 17 23:54:29 now how do you include images in the patches? Jul 17 23:54:59 in git or quilt? Jul 17 23:55:06 git it's just a blob Jul 17 23:55:38 tmzt: no i mean if i put it in git quilt knows how to handle em right? Jul 17 23:57:35 Rick__: if you are up for it this is the http://josephcrawford.com/pics/menu-capture-timer.png Jul 17 23:58:29 jcrawford: we create a patch using quilt, and then commit that patch to git Jul 17 23:59:57 sorry jcrawford it's beyond my paltry skills... Jul 18 00:00:11 np i will try to get a friend to do it :) Jul 18 00:00:20 you can't do either? Jul 18 00:05:52 not a graphics designer. I can -run- the software, but what I do never looks good. Jul 18 00:08:54 man this app menu is killing me Jul 18 00:12:00 crap how do I delete a patch I created in quilt? Jul 18 00:12:09 i need to revert all my changes before adding the patch Jul 18 00:12:36 Rick__: thanks man, I got a friend to help me out with the images. Appreciate you trying :) Jul 18 00:13:50 ah got it Jul 18 00:13:56 sudo quilt delete patch_name.patch Jul 18 00:15:25 anyone here that can help me? Jul 18 00:16:05 prodigy: help with Jul 18 00:16:05 ? Jul 18 00:16:06 anyone even here? Jul 18 00:16:08 ah Jul 18 00:16:09 thanks Jul 18 00:16:36 shoot Jul 18 00:17:10 so im trying to build my first app. im on vista. Im using the mojo plugin for eclpise. Imm trying to follow the "Hello World" tutorial on the palm pre site. And i cant get it to work. all i get is the original index.html when running the app in the emulator Jul 18 00:17:33 #webos Jul 18 00:18:07 oh im on the wrong channel? Jul 18 00:20:23 "4.2 Application Signing. Developer acknowledges and agrees that Applications which access or make use of Palm’s APIs may not be installed or used on Palm Devices, except in a test environment, without first being signed with a certificate issued by or for Palm." Jul 18 00:20:25 How about webos-internals issues a certificate "for Palm", and then use that. Jul 18 00:22:42 I can create a webos-internals Certification Authority, which explicitly states that certificates issued by that root CA are "for Palm, as per section 4.2" ... Jul 18 00:22:55 rwhitby: I think we're safer with test environment Jul 18 00:23:11 destinal_: I'm thinking of in addition to that Jul 18 00:23:15 hey guys, I was thinking of getting a New Freerunner. Since all of the Mojo and webos stuff is part of a standard GNU/Linux system? Jul 18 00:23:21 if we need to sign apps for some reason Jul 18 00:23:27 if we start saying for palm they could take that seriously Jul 18 00:23:28 er, how hard would it be to shoehorn the webos onto it? Jul 18 00:23:58 PhrkOnLsh: webOS is not open source, so you'd be infringing Palm EULA for webOS. Jul 18 00:24:14 apart from that, it should be possible. Jul 18 00:24:14 even if I did not release my changes/howto? Jul 18 00:24:30 PhrkOnLsh: yep, the EULA says you can only use webOS on a Palm device Jul 18 00:24:36 hmmm Jul 18 00:24:56 what about the webos-doctor's root image, since i didn't really ever agree to an EULA? Jul 18 00:25:08 where is everyone getting using it in a test environment is fine? Jul 18 00:25:08 PhrkOnLsh: If it uses arm8 stuff, then it may not work on a freerunner Jul 18 00:25:10 destinal_: not "on behalf of Palm", but "for Palm" Jul 18 00:25:19 rwhitby: it's a gift Jul 18 00:25:36 PreGame: section 4.2 specifically states a test environment is fine Jul 18 00:25:54 yeah I don't think the cert thing is necessary given that we're a test env Jul 18 00:25:57 I see what you mean though Jul 18 00:25:58 oh my bad your doing 4.2, i thought u were talking about 4.3 Jul 18 00:26:25 4.3 about distribution is that the GNU overrides Palm's TOS Jul 18 00:26:37 does it override? shweer Jul 18 00:26:38 shweet Jul 18 00:26:50 I was afraid that wouldn't be the case. Jul 18 00:26:51 PreGame: there is no GNU code in Palm's webOS framework, only in the OpenEmbedded Linux framework underneath it. Jul 18 00:26:53 and GNU says there cannot be any holds on distribution Jul 18 00:27:06 i can make a script and make it GNU Jul 18 00:27:15 then everything is golden Jul 18 00:27:24 first of all, it's the GPL, not the GNU Jul 18 00:27:24 PreGame: wrong Jul 18 00:27:29 PreGame: as long as you didn't use the SDK, you can do what you like and distribute it how you like. Jul 18 00:27:46 The GNU is the operating system, the GPL is the license it, and countless other Free softwares, are released under. Jul 18 00:27:46 PreGame: the GPL is a license you give your code Jul 18 00:28:01 If you used the SDK, then you're bound by the SDK, and GPL can't give you the right to violate the license on the SDK. Jul 18 00:28:03 PreGame: may as well put it in a license that you don't have to honor agreements Jul 18 00:28:35 I think it would be laughed out of court Jul 18 00:28:36 negative Jul 18 00:28:44 * PhrkOnLsh shower bbl Jul 18 00:28:50 if i use ANY GNU code in my application then its all good Jul 18 00:29:00 PreGame: I disagree. Jul 18 00:29:07 PreGame: actually no. if you use GNU code it means you can't honor your agreement with palm Jul 18 00:29:32 did you read 4.3? it said any other open source licenses override palms agreement Jul 18 00:29:34 unless you only distribute on the app catalog Jul 18 00:29:38 really? Jul 18 00:29:45 * destinal_ goes back to 4.3 Jul 18 00:29:49 I didn't catch that Jul 18 00:29:53 that is critical then Jul 18 00:30:39 4.3 Applications Can Only Be Distributed Through the Palm Application Catalog. Developer acknowledges and agrees, that absent a separate written agreement with Palm, Developer may not distribute any Application except as allowed by Palm’s formal approved distribution process and channel (the “Application Catalog”). Developer acknowledges and agrees that (a) distribution of Applications will be subject to further terms and condi Jul 18 00:30:41 tions, which may include a share of the revenue generated from sale of the Applications to be paid to Palm by Developer, where such terms and conditions shall be presented to Developer upon or before Developer’s request for distribution of any Application, (b) because of certain laws, regulations, as well as contractual or other restrictions, Palm may refuse to allow the distribution of certain types of Applications, and (c) distribut Jul 18 00:30:46 ed Applications may be viewable or inspectable by third parties, and Palm is not obligated to take any steps to obfuscate the code associated with the Applications or take any other steps to prevent third parties from viewing or inspecting Application code. Jul 18 00:30:52 ? Jul 18 00:31:00 PreGame: 4.3 doesn't mention GPL Jul 18 00:31:20 (from http://developer.palm.com/termsofservice.html) Jul 18 00:31:26 err Jul 18 00:31:28 3.3 Jul 18 00:31:30 sorry Jul 18 00:31:44 that's for the Palm materials Jul 18 00:31:47 not yours Jul 18 00:32:26 it's just explaining that any stuff they give to you that's under an OSS license stays there and you follow the OSS license Jul 18 00:32:40 destinal_: agreed, that's about Palm giving stuff to you, not your code Jul 18 00:33:22 so yeah, the SDK License Agreement _does_ effectively prevent any distribution besides app catalog unless test environment Jul 18 00:33:41 so as a test environment we should be fine Jul 18 00:33:54 destinal_: or signed by a certificate "issued for Palm" Jul 18 00:34:17 (if we are forced to sign stuff for some reason) Jul 18 00:34:21 right but stating it's for palm may not make it for palm Jul 18 00:34:33 that's unknown at this point Jul 18 00:34:40 destinal_: that'd be for the courts to decide Jul 18 00:35:05 where does it say you can only distribute out side of app catalog if its a test? Jul 18 00:35:08 (since there is no formal definition in the agreement itself) Jul 18 00:35:21 PreGame: 4.2 Jul 18 00:35:40 "4.2 Application Signing. Developer acknowledges and agrees that Applications which access or make use of Palm’s APIs may not be installed or used on Palm Devices, except in a test environment, without first being signed with a certificate issued by or for Palm." Jul 18 00:36:05 that doesn't say to distribute Jul 18 00:36:11 it just says installed on palm devices Jul 18 00:36:32 4.3 Applications Can Only Be Distributed Through the Palm Application Catalog. Jul 18 00:36:35 4.2 is strictly app signing Jul 18 00:36:43 4.3 is distribution Jul 18 00:37:05 Developer acknowledges and agrees, that absent a separate written agreement with Palm, Developer may not distribute any Application except as allowed by Palm’s formal approved distribution process and channel (the “Application Catalog”).  Jul 18 00:37:42 interesting I don't see a test exception there Jul 18 00:37:51 ^^^ Jul 18 00:37:53 PreGame: 4.2 is about restrictions on installing, which is interesting cause the end user who is doing the installing does not agree to this license Jul 18 00:38:10 rwhitby: distribution is a lot more relevant / important Jul 18 00:38:21 and I don't see a test env exemption there Jul 18 00:38:46 I'm sure its intended Jul 18 00:38:53 but what's written is what matters Jul 18 00:40:13 what I find interesting is that 4.3 and 4.1 seem to conflict Jul 18 00:40:39 if you retain all rights how can you be granting them exclusive distribution rights? Jul 18 00:41:28 wow Jul 18 00:41:32 AND 4 survives termination Jul 18 00:42:00 so if they refuse to put your app on the catalog you have absolutely no recourse Jul 18 00:42:52 destinal_: you have the recourse of 4.1 - you have given up no rights. Jul 18 00:43:04 yeah that _seems_ to invalidate 4.3 Jul 18 00:43:06 I'm confused Jul 18 00:43:25 although you may have given up the right to use the SDK Jul 18 00:44:04 * destinal_ sighs over the stupid legal tangle palm has constructed Jul 18 00:45:20 you arnt giving them distribution rights Jul 18 00:45:31 you are merely agreeing to only distribute with the app catalog Jul 18 00:45:37 * rwhitby decides to ignore it until someone gets the first cease and desist notice, to always submit every open source application to the app catalog (so they can't say I'm in competition), and to always give a share of the $0 I will charge to Palm Jul 18 00:45:41 you're agreeing not to distribute any other way, forever, in exchange for getting to use the SDK? Jul 18 00:46:01 I think that would be giving up rights IMO Jul 18 00:46:16 destinal_: you never had those rights to start with Jul 18 00:46:19 yea i am going to cancel my SDK access and just use whats on the predev wiki for creating apps Jul 18 00:46:23 you know what is funny Jul 18 00:46:43 verizon is creating their on webos app catalog and removing palms app catalog Jul 18 00:46:54 how is that possible if they have the PALM agreement? Jul 18 00:46:55 PreGame: has that been confirmed? Jul 18 00:47:02 PreGame: ah, that's why the written agreement clause is there Jul 18 00:47:07 i read it a couple different places Jul 18 00:47:16 destinal: palminfocenter Jul 18 00:47:31 PreGame: heh - I read lots of stuff about the tethering incident in many different places, and none of it was true :-) Jul 18 00:47:47 about sprint not allowing it? Jul 18 00:48:04 PreGame: all the reporting on the wiki page we put up Jul 18 00:48:38 i'm lost Jul 18 00:49:17 the fact that at least 20 different "tech" blogs and sites said many things about Palm and Sprint and tethering and webos-internals, and none of it was based on fact. Jul 18 00:49:40 rwhitby: welcome to blag "journalism" Jul 18 00:50:00 PhrkOnLsh: oh, I wasn't surprised at all. Jul 18 00:50:03 'ah unsubstantiated rumour, tiem for moar page hits' Jul 18 00:50:25 rwhitby: I agree, we can try to meet the terms the best we can with a test env and non compete Jul 18 00:50:59 rwhitby: if they sue the OSS community that would be shocking and create a lot of negative backlash Jul 18 00:51:05 destinal_: actions speak louder than words. Jul 18 00:51:33 and since we're doing the right things everywhere possible I think that counts for something Jul 18 00:51:35 destinal_: you can bet that the first time anyone actually is approached directly by Palm, you will hear about it far and wide Jul 18 00:52:20 I just hate that the email ipk thing came out, the clause wasn't there before that Jul 18 00:52:36 if only they had gotten to public with the sdk before that Jul 18 00:52:46 destinal_: did you see the agreement previously? Jul 18 00:52:49 (I didn't) Jul 18 00:52:57 rwhitby: I've heard from informed sources it wasn't there Jul 18 00:53:48 meh - it would have needed to be there anyway. can't have precentral competing against the palm app catalogue Jul 18 00:55:02 rwhitby: but this anticompetitive behavior.. is, well, tolerable I guess considering you don't have to use their sdk and can still develop Jul 18 00:55:15 still offensive Jul 18 00:55:51 they should focus on making the catalog good and high quality and people will use it Jul 18 00:55:55 rather than legal strongarming Jul 18 00:56:34 destinal_: if PreCentral haven't got a cease and desist yet on the homebrew forum section, then individual developers have nothing to worry about Jul 18 00:57:05 sure but the fact that it's there... very upsetting Jul 18 00:57:41 in practice we may be ok, but the agreement matters to me at least Jul 18 00:58:07 what's the worst that can happen? there's no penalty or injury, so worst that can happen is you can't distribute an app. Jul 18 00:58:09 Ie the spirit on their part is bad Jul 18 00:58:43 considering how much of their platform they've based on open source it's a bit hypocritical. Jul 18 00:58:54 apple's that way too, of course Jul 18 00:59:10 and if you have a good non-malicious app, and Palm refuses to include it in the App Catalog, then the p2p networks will distribute it for you without your knowledge anyway. Jul 18 00:59:44 the internet sees censorship as damage Jul 18 00:59:56 and routes around it Jul 18 01:00:11 yep, and that will happen here too Jul 18 01:00:44 note that hosting a site of packages does not violate any laws, if the packages do not contain Palm code. Jul 18 01:01:17 rwhitby: right, that's between the developer and palm Jul 18 01:01:23 not whoever hosts it. Jul 18 01:01:30 the agreement is between individual developers and Palm, and only concerns the right to use the SDK. Jul 18 01:02:18 in reality, the worst that Palm can do is revoke your webOS forum access until you register with a new email address. Jul 18 01:02:52 if they were stupid enough to start pulling stunts like that for non-malicious apps, the press will crucify them. Jul 18 01:02:54 well they could go after the dev for breach of contract or whatever other evil EULA stuff blizzard did against bnetd, no? Jul 18 01:03:45 destinal_: but the SDK is public, and as long as you submitted it to the catalog, there can be no injury or damages (imho, ianal) Jul 18 01:04:04 yea but bnetd didnt stop once asked Jul 18 01:04:22 and they were making a profit Jul 18 01:04:37 oh, right. you'd have to stop (until the press made Palm change their mind) Jul 18 01:04:40 PreGame: right, but that only impacts whether they're likely to take legal action, not whether they'd win Jul 18 01:05:01 so if you're considering making a living off of webos apps, you should be worried. Jul 18 01:05:18 if you're going to develop open source apps for free, there's no problem. Jul 18 01:05:43 if i am giong to make money off an app i have no problem distro through the app catalog Jul 18 01:06:02 (since you can just stop distributing, and allow the open source license to ensure that someone else will start distributing it instead, someone who hasn't agreed to the EULA) Jul 18 01:06:37 actually, there's the loophole Jul 18 01:06:41 (for open source) Jul 18 01:07:10 well, that's for some judge to decide whether one copy to someone else who will copy it is distribution Jul 18 01:07:16 the developer agrees to the SDK, writes the app, and publishes the source. Jul 18 01:07:33 someone else who hasn't agreed to the SDK takes the source, packages it, and distributes it. Jul 18 01:07:37 or whether giving away source code classifies as distribution Jul 18 01:07:39 problem solved for open source apps. Jul 18 01:07:46 the agreement doesn't specify ipks Jul 18 01:08:01 once the source is out, you have no control over it Jul 18 01:08:17 well Jul 18 01:08:21 well depends Jul 18 01:08:22 here is what you do Jul 18 01:08:27 on if you could prove intent to distribute Jul 18 01:08:28 worst case, the source is in three pieces, none of which is an application Jul 18 01:08:38 lol Jul 18 01:08:39 the packager puts it together. Jul 18 01:08:45 you package it yourself. put it on the web for "STORAGE" and put a title that says "DO NOT DOWNLOAD" Jul 18 01:08:46 much of the law is about intent rather than technical details Jul 18 01:08:52 when people see a title like that they will download Jul 18 01:08:59 ie having a cat click an eula is still you Jul 18 01:09:02 that way people are getting it yet you are not giving it Jul 18 01:09:39 anyway, all of this is moot until Palm actually sends out the first cease and desist letter. Jul 18 01:09:47 lol Jul 18 01:10:06 (which they will never do for a non-malicious app) Jul 18 01:10:34 * rwhitby is assuming chuq is reading this exchange, and taking notes. Jul 18 01:10:51 who is chuq? Jul 18 01:11:02 Palm Developer Relations Manager Jul 18 01:11:30 good i hope he is Jul 18 01:11:33 http://www.linkedin.com/in/chuqui Jul 18 01:11:46 ah Jul 18 01:12:09 they need to change the TOS to say "If you are distributing your app for a fee you must use the app catalog, if it is a free distrobution you can use any third party applications/sites" Jul 18 01:12:24 * PreGame pokes Chuq Jul 18 01:12:37 PreGame: no, they need to keep the TOS as-is so that they can prosecute malicious app developers. Jul 18 01:12:49 rwhitby: I disagree Jul 18 01:12:56 no Jul 18 01:13:02 they already have a clause for malicious apps Jul 18 01:13:15 they need to let us distribute what we want how we want Jul 18 01:13:25 what we create is ours Jul 18 01:13:42 this attack on future competition is wrong Jul 18 01:14:31 a phone is a computer just like a pc Jul 18 01:14:36 PreGame, destinal_: I agree with you, but see how Palm's lawyers would think they need to keep the TOS as-is. Jul 18 01:14:44 can you imagine if visual studio came with a restriction on distribution? Jul 18 01:14:55 it doesn't? Jul 18 01:14:56 heh Jul 18 01:15:21 but if PC's were created today, everyone would be doing this same lockin, now that they think they can Jul 18 01:15:25 and that people will just accept it Jul 18 01:15:26 destinal_: the express edition of visual studio *does* restrict distribution Jul 18 01:15:47 the only moral answer is an alternative sdk with no restrictions Jul 18 01:15:58 or for palm to fix theirs Jul 18 01:16:00 morels r tasty Jul 18 01:16:23 destinal_: well, it looks like we will have the low-level plugin alt-SDK before Palm releases one ... Jul 18 01:17:05 maybe Jul 18 01:17:17 rwhitby: we're providing everything you need so that devs can develop in an open fashion Jul 18 01:17:22 tools included. this is good. Jul 18 01:17:40 * rwhitby is reminded that he was supposed to be looking at cross-compilation of the basic plugin ... Jul 18 01:17:53 and try to make it as easy as possible Jul 18 01:18:12 to both set up your development environment and deploy your projects Jul 18 01:18:30 PuffTheMagic, raeb, destinal_: what dev setup do you all have for plugin development at the moment ? Jul 18 01:18:43 eclipse with gnu make Jul 18 01:18:49 vim Jul 18 01:18:50 eclipse for c++ developers Jul 18 01:18:52 :) Jul 18 01:19:04 eclipse w/ CDE Jul 18 01:19:06 i need to write up instructions for sertting up dev env Jul 18 01:19:23 the easiest for me to set up is to make the plugin an optware package which just downloads the source from the git repo, cross-compiles it, then packages an ipkg which you can ipkg-opt install. Jul 18 01:19:37 step 1. install sdk, step 2. install eclipse, step 3. install plam plugin for eclipse Jul 18 01:19:42 thats about it ;) Jul 18 01:19:58 PuffTheMagic: for the C++ step 3 isn't needed Jul 18 01:20:11 PuffTheMagic: I mean for cross-compilation - do any of you have cross-compilation already set up that I need to take into account? Jul 18 01:20:36 or do I just do what is convenient and then you learn how to use that Jul 18 01:20:52 (e.g. optware setup) Jul 18 01:21:10 rwhitby: so long as it's easy for other devs to set up and its integrated with a makefile (a new target perhaps), then that's good Jul 18 01:21:38 should be as much out of the box and as few additional steps as possible Jul 18 01:23:08 destinal_: how about "svn co ; make pre-target ; cd pre ; make basic-plugin-ipk" ? Jul 18 01:23:20 rwhitby: awesome Jul 18 01:23:52 and the optware autobuilder keeps the feed up to date with the latest ipkg based on what is latest in git. Jul 18 01:24:17 so end-users and testers just say "ipkg-opt install org.webosinternals.basic-plugin" Jul 18 01:24:35 cool Jul 18 01:30:39 hey guys, how do you rotate in the emulator? Jul 18 01:31:13 err, use the accelerometer functions like shake, orientation, etc... Jul 18 01:31:55 goatslacker: have you read the emulator page on the Palm webos site? Jul 18 01:32:30 good call! Jul 18 01:32:44 sometimes the simplest solutions escape me Jul 18 01:32:46 you have to take your computer monitor and shake it or turn it Jul 18 01:32:50 infobot: emulator is The webOS emulator doco is at http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1744 Jul 18 01:32:51 ...but emulator is already something else... Jul 18 01:32:58 infobot: no, emulator is The webOS emulator doco is at http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1744 Jul 18 01:32:59 rwhitby: okay Jul 18 01:33:02 ~emulator Jul 18 01:33:03 The webOS emulator doco is at http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1744 Jul 18 01:33:03 in http://www.palm.com/us/business/pre-index.html I'm surprised they don't mention "cisco VPN" since I keep seeing vpnc in the opensource repo Jul 18 01:33:24 PreGame, i already tried that! Jul 18 01:33:35 yeah it doesn't support Accelerometer :( Jul 18 01:33:36 * rwhitby hopes that infobot factoids are channel-specific Jul 18 01:33:37 it doesn't seem to be on the phone though Jul 18 01:33:49 or Multi-touch. Bawwwww Jul 18 01:33:59 turn ur head? Jul 18 01:34:13 goatslacker: for some things a pre will always be needed IMO Jul 18 01:34:31 Palm: Oh NO! you *DIDN'T*; Apple: Oh, yes iDid! Jul 18 01:34:33 or whatever later webos platforms become available Jul 18 01:34:38 PreGame, where's the API for the Mojo functions of my head? :\ Jul 18 01:34:42 goatslacker: the interesting thing is that the VirtualBox setup for the emulator does have both screen orientations listed in the .xml config file, but no way to access it as far as I can see. Jul 18 01:34:52 is there a 'fix' for that yet? Jul 18 01:34:53 rwhitby: I wonder... Jul 18 01:34:59 outside of not upgrading to it? Jul 18 01:35:08 ShadeS: I don't think so Jul 18 01:35:25 damn random colors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jul 18 01:35:35 ShadeS: the "fix" is not to use proprietary protocols when managing your music collection :-) Jul 18 01:35:45 PuffTheMagic: check the other funcs for init calls Jul 18 01:35:51 that is interesting Jul 18 01:36:03 there's gotta be _something_ Jul 18 01:36:42 i guess i'll move on to design. blah. Jul 18 01:37:42 destinal_: can you do the following? Jul 18 01:37:53 (in ubuntu) Jul 18 01:37:55 svn co http://svn.nslu2-linux.org/svnroot/optware/trunk optware Jul 18 01:38:06 cd optware; make pre-target Jul 18 01:38:19 cd pre; make directories ipkg-utils toolchain Jul 18 01:39:08 destinal_: once you've got that working, I'll put a new package in the optware 'pre' platform for the plugin. should be a simple .mk file addition. Jul 18 01:39:35 PuffTheMagic, raeb: if you guys want to try that out to make sure it's easy enough to set up, please do so as well. Jul 18 01:39:50 rwhitby: for serious, that's why I loled when I saw that headline. Jul 18 01:40:24 I manage all my music, in a directory structure, that can be viewed in bash 8 D Jul 18 01:40:44 i know nothing about all this opt-ware crap Jul 18 01:40:48 because it's so much cooler to hit a series of key strokes instead of all slowly point-and-click about it Jul 18 01:41:00 PuffTheMagic: why do you characterise it as "crap" ? Jul 18 01:41:03 rwhitby: ok it's pulling stuff down Jul 18 01:41:34 sorry... s/crap/stuff/ Jul 18 01:41:37 PuffTheMagic: uh the 'opt-ware crap' is the magic leetness which reaps all your wares from Jul 18 01:41:51 it's where the magic puff is coming from Jul 18 01:42:00 hehe Jul 18 01:42:08 PuffTheMagic: ah, ok. just a figure of speech, not a value judgement :-) Jul 18 01:42:13 yeah Jul 18 01:43:23 PuffTheMagic: all it is is a cross-compilation setup, and a bunch of makefile fragments which download open source package source tarballs, patch them to run completely under /opt (for embedded devices where / and /usr are in ROM), and then builds ipkgs out of them Jul 18 01:43:46 it is god Jul 18 01:43:52 :P Jul 18 01:44:19 rwhitby: started it back when you were working on an NSLU2 dist, right? Jul 18 01:44:26 destinal_: actually, it's nowhere near as good as many other build systems. it just happens to be the only one which doesn't assume you can write to / and /usr. Jul 18 01:44:35 destinal_: yeah, over 4 years ago. Jul 18 01:44:55 based it on what openwrt where using at that time, but they then changed their build system Jul 18 01:45:37 we auto-build it for over 20 platforms now Jul 18 01:45:55 mostly embedded routers and NAS boxes, but now smartphones too :-) Jul 18 01:46:17 on pre we could probably rebuild our phones and format fs's ext4 and keep them rw and write to / (maybe) but keeping it in /opt is still cleaner Jul 18 01:46:18 (e.g. you can use it on openmoko and pre now) Jul 18 01:46:46 destinal_: yeah, optware is designed for minimal modfication to vendor device. Jul 18 01:47:08 Hello! Forgive me if I seem rather clueless regarding root access, Linux, etc. because, well, I am. I just gained root access via the method described at http://predev.wikidot.com/using-novaproxy to install the webos-internals package to enable "My Tether". Now, however, I see that I'm able to use the SDK to install packages without enabling Developer Mode. This seems to me to be a security risk, no? I don't envision mysel Jul 18 01:47:45 northward: if you have physical access to a Pre, then you already can do anything you want to it. Jul 18 01:48:04 you have to have dev mode on to install with the sdk, correct? Jul 18 01:48:25 destinal_: I believe so Jul 18 01:48:36 it uses novacom and novacomd isn't on without devmode IIRC Jul 18 01:49:00 @rwhitby: I think that I understand that, I just wonder if I've opened up another security hole. @destinal: after rooting the Pre as described above, I can now install via the SDK without turning on dev mode, which doesn't seem right. Jul 18 01:49:27 northward: the webos-internals package is very careful *not* to open up security holes. Jul 18 01:49:53 Yeah, but shouldn't I have to turn on dev mode to install via the SDK? It didn't allow me to do that before I accessed the root. Jul 18 01:49:56 northward: if you prefer to just use the SDK and novacom to get access to the device, then skip the step where you install dropbear. Jul 18 01:49:57 northward: you need your passwords to install without dev mode via scp Jul 18 01:50:17 northward: not different than a standard linux box Jul 18 01:50:22 northward: no webos-internals stuff changes what the SDK can and can't do. Jul 18 01:50:43 I didn't install dropbear. I didn't do any of the "extra steps," actually. So, you guys are saying that I just shouldn't worry about this? Jul 18 01:51:03 northward: can you explain exactly what you have done, what you expected to happen, and what you're seeing happen? Jul 18 01:52:05 Absolutely. I gained root access via the method described here: http://predev.wikidot.com/using-novaproxy. I then ran the following commands from the root prompt: Jul 18 01:52:10 cd /tmp/ Jul 18 01:52:18 mount -o remount rw, / Jul 18 01:52:30 wget http://vz.aonic.net:8080/~raja/pre/org.webosinternals.services-0.4_all.ipk Jul 18 01:52:30 ipkg install org.webosinternals.services-0.4_all.ipk Jul 18 01:52:48 mount -o remount ro, / Jul 18 01:53:09 northward: do you own vz.aonic.net ? Jul 18 01:53:31 and usr/bin/luna-send palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {} Jul 18 01:53:53 (last one preceded by a fwd slash). No, vz.aonic.net is the developer who wrote the tethering app. Jul 18 01:54:39 I then restarted the device and now I've noticed this change in behavior. Jul 18 01:55:21 ah, great. the guy who runs http://mytether.net/ is redistributing org.webosinternals.services instead of just linking to the source site. he's well within his rights to do that (since it's open source), but it's not really the "done thing" Jul 18 01:55:41 Understood. Jul 18 01:56:44 * rwhitby sends him a note ... Jul 18 01:57:13 So, what do you think. I shouldn't worry about this behavior, or is there something else I should do? Sorry to be dense... Jul 18 01:58:01 northward: installing that org.webosinternals.services ipkg allows any webOS application to run anything on your Pre as the root user without your knowledge. Jul 18 01:58:45 So, simply installing that ipkg creates a security risk by itself? Jul 18 01:59:07 northward: yes I would say so Jul 18 01:59:35 northward: the proper way to do services is to make a service do just what you want so that it can't be abused for unintended functionality Jul 18 01:59:58 the problem with a generic command line service is that it's capable of anything and other apps you instal may use it without your knowledge Jul 18 02:00:29 someone could make a call to it with rm -rf / and poof Jul 18 02:00:45 Hmmmm...makes sense to me, destinal. So the developer should have written just the service for his app. OK, thanks folks. Now I have to decide whether I keep it or not to use the tethering app. If so I guess I have to truly trust any apps that I install...scary stuff. Jul 18 02:00:48 and unless you do source code review of all your apps that seems like a risk to me Jul 18 02:01:05 Yeah, like I'm capable of doing that! LOL Jul 18 02:01:08 or someone can make an app which snoops all web traffic and sends your bank account login details back to the author of the app Jul 18 02:01:22 rwhitby: sure, and that's arguably much worse :) Jul 18 02:01:51 May I have your permission to copy/paste this discussion on the developer's app thread at precentral.net to solicit his response? Jul 18 02:02:07 northward: it's already public on the logs (see topic) Jul 18 02:02:35 so I don't see an issue Jul 18 02:02:37 Gotcha, I'll go look there. Thanks again for your feedback! Jul 18 02:02:55 northward: org.webosinternals.services was created by us as a proof of concept, and was not intended for direct use by other applications (due to this security issue) Jul 18 02:03:15 Understood completely. Jul 18 02:03:35 northward: so whilst we released it as MIT license (and therefore anyone is free to use it for any purpose), we suggest that it should not be used in a real application Jul 18 02:04:16 northward: you should also ask the author to provide the source code for the org.webosinternals.services ipkg, so that you (or someone else ) can do a security review on it Jul 18 02:04:16 it can easily be modified to run whatever commands the developer needs instead and named something else Jul 18 02:04:44 destinal_: indeed, it should be named something else if has different functionality from the original Jul 18 02:04:54 Will do. Good night y'all! Jul 18 02:06:06 northward: since we specifically used the MIT license, we can't stop any of this happening, but we can appeal to the author of mytether.net to recognise commonly accepted open source practices Jul 18 02:06:53 I expect he just may not be aware of the security risk and the conventions of linking back to the original site and giving attribution ... Jul 18 02:15:39 i cant log into my precentral account :/ Jul 18 02:18:38 rwhitby: oh, that command finished a while ago and I forgot about it Jul 18 02:18:55 destinal_: no problems? Jul 18 02:19:09 no errors, looks good Jul 18 02:33:29 rwhitby: Jul 18 02:33:33 rwhitby: what next? Jul 18 02:33:54 destinal_: sorry, busy writing a forum post in the mytether.net homebrew thread. Jul 18 02:34:12 oh, no worries, don't need it quickly Jul 18 02:34:23 I'm working on other stuff also Jul 18 02:41:18 * rwhitby posts http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1758954 Jul 18 02:43:00 seems he did it the hard way anyway Jul 18 02:43:23 would have been easier to put the iptables calls in the service component Jul 18 02:43:37 since it could run without the graphical app Jul 18 02:45:46 rwhitby: I just wanted to stop back in to thank you for posting http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1758954 Jul 18 02:45:53 tmzt uh people WANT the graphical app. Jul 18 02:46:04 people are more comfortable with graphical apps than wiht the command line Jul 18 02:46:08 People HATE the command line Jul 18 02:46:54 not me... Jul 18 02:46:57 well yes Jul 18 02:46:59 ok, the mytether.net author responded to my email and seems to be willing to work with the community to address the issues I raised. Jul 18 02:47:12 but I mean the app can be closed and the connection remain Jul 18 02:47:26 or they configure to always tether Jul 18 02:47:48 Rick__, I'm a person and I don't mind the command line Jul 18 02:48:19 as in the graphical component could be used to configure the service component Jul 18 02:48:22 anyway Jul 18 02:49:22 Rick__: I know what you mean, and you're right. Any author who wants to get widespread acceptance of his app must have a GUI front-end. tmzt's comments on how to architect that front-end back-end split are spot on. Jul 18 02:49:44 did i miss how to run the debugger on the pre? Jul 18 02:49:47 hehe JackieRipper -- very drole. (sp?) -- anyway, let's try that again. Many people are loath to approach the command line, viewing it with immense fear. Jul 18 02:49:48 all i see is how to on the emulator Jul 18 02:50:06 it's broken on the pre. Jul 18 02:50:18 It will be fixed with the pre updates to 1.1 probebly next week. Jul 18 02:50:24 since the (new) emulator is running 1.1 Jul 18 02:50:26 I can go along with that Jul 18 02:52:22 1.1? new major feautures? Jul 18 02:52:33 gl would be nice :) Jul 18 02:56:06 aonic should give us credit for creating the shell script :-\ Jul 18 02:56:41 I'm gonna leave it to rwhitby. He seems to take care of the open source stuff well Jul 18 02:56:49 wait Jul 18 02:57:00 rwhitby: he's making money on this? Jul 18 02:57:09 PreGame: I'm working with him on this right now. Jul 18 02:57:14 not yet Jul 18 02:57:23 he might later on Jul 18 02:57:30 "donations" but still Jul 18 02:57:34 oh yea Jul 18 02:57:44 we should get a percent Jul 18 02:57:53 well I don't know, it would be nice Jul 18 02:57:56 he's under no obligation Jul 18 02:57:58 last time i make something open source :P Jul 18 02:58:39 that's why you GPL :) Jul 18 02:58:59 rwhitby made it MIT Jul 18 02:59:02 then again donations != proprietary Jul 18 02:59:10 not necessarily that is Jul 18 02:59:19 so you can give away source code and still accept donations Jul 18 02:59:26 well i'm gonna ask for donations on my shell service and flashlight app :P **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jul 18 02:59:56 2009