**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 19 02:59:57 2009 Jul 19 03:03:58 ok looks like the headers palm provides cover some of what we're missing but they #include more headers that palm didn't send in response to my inquiry, so another round.. Jul 19 03:04:57 destinal__: looks like NPRuntime is supported since it is querying NPPVpluginScriptableNPObject Jul 19 03:05:10 mrvc: yes, I noticed that too Jul 19 03:06:11 guys, I got following errors Jul 19 03:06:14 root@fm:~/webos/precmd# ./novacom Jul 19 03:06:14 ERROR: Novacom not found - are you sure your pre is plugged in? Jul 19 03:06:14 ERROR: Unable to find or initialize Novacom - is your pre plugged in? Jul 19 03:06:34 ameng1: is dev mode on? Jul 19 03:06:56 yeah Jul 19 03:07:01 bpadalino: ping Jul 19 03:07:49 just strange Jul 19 03:08:08 ameng1: if your on windows you can reinstall manually by simply selecting your pre device and doing an update drivers in device manager and selecting the novacom folder in the sdk. That will fix it. Jul 19 03:08:46 Restarting might fix it though. Jul 19 03:10:22 I think that related to the bypassing activating my pre Jul 19 03:10:30 hmmm Jul 19 03:10:34 no idea Jul 19 03:10:45 I'd still think novacomd would be running on the pre Jul 19 03:10:47 Maybe, but this did come up in early access with the really old sdk's. Jul 19 03:10:57 and communicating via usb Jul 19 03:11:00 i am in China Jul 19 03:11:16 ameng1: did you try what I suggested? Jul 19 03:11:22 I can not find my pre , same as on XP Jul 19 03:11:29 it Jul 19 03:11:31 ameng1: if you bypassed why not just add dropbear in your modified doctor image? ;) Jul 19 03:11:48 on the new wiki: is it better to add page names to the hardware portal, or just add the hardware category as each page is made, then the hardware portal page links to the alphabetized category page? Jul 19 03:12:01 you've already got access to the root fs, since you're changing apps on it Jul 19 03:12:10 then just reflash the modified image Jul 19 03:12:31 sugardave: hmm I was looking at this earlier... let me go check how its setup. Jul 19 03:12:56 destinal__: the store have made it , and I bought Jul 19 03:12:56 templarian: check a2dp, accelerometer, and ambient_light_sensor Jul 19 03:13:07 ameng1: oh, they bypassed? Jul 19 03:13:13 yeah Jul 19 03:13:18 ameng1: then they may have broken something Jul 19 03:13:29 I think so Jul 19 03:13:36 you can go back and bypass for yourself Jul 19 03:13:39 just download doctor image Jul 19 03:13:43 edit the app Jul 19 03:13:51 rebuild doctor image Jul 19 03:13:52 flash Jul 19 03:14:29 do you have a service provider or are you just using it as a computer / pda? Jul 19 03:14:47 sugardave: you think we should delete the article? Jul 19 03:14:54 And relink it. Jul 19 03:14:55 Now pda Jul 19 03:15:12 ameng1: ok then you can't break any special telco stuff I was afraid they might do since they didnt Jul 19 03:15:32 templarian: I think it might be easier to do that (link the current hardware info to Category:Hardware) Jul 19 03:15:35 but we can really use the phone part by some hack in china Jul 19 03:15:53 sugardave: give me 2 seconds I'm going to edit it. Jul 19 03:15:59 cool Jul 19 03:16:01 I've actually been thinking about writing up instructions on making a special doctor image with optware and dropbear already on it Jul 19 03:16:07 that would solve your problem Jul 19 03:16:12 sugardave: then it's not a portal... Jul 19 03:16:14 i thought about doing that destinal__ Jul 19 03:16:31 oh well you probably can't get to optware Jul 19 03:16:34 templarian: yeah, I just thought about that Jul 19 03:16:34 but dropbear, yeah :) Jul 19 03:16:54 I forgot the great firewall of china Jul 19 03:16:57 oh, I know...we should be able to list contents of the category page in the pre section of the portal page Jul 19 03:17:01 I'll make that happen Jul 19 03:17:05 haha Jul 19 03:17:55 sugardave: also delete out the thing I had there before, I didn't understand at first what that page was for I just was editing it in really quick. Jul 19 03:17:56 but then i thought about how i dont know how to do any of that Jul 19 03:18:00 so it was short lived. Jul 19 03:19:05 I am interested in webos' webkit and graphics stuff. hmmmmm, now the rooting problem blocked me Jul 19 03:19:41 ameng1: hey, you could help us with graphical plugins.. :) we need to get you fixed. Jul 19 03:19:57 we would anyway :) Jul 19 03:20:05 hmm, actually the "include this page" directive only includes the text I have in the body...not the alphabetized list Jul 19 03:20:12 let me work on it a bit Jul 19 03:20:27 ameng1: can you download the doctor image? Jul 19 03:21:04 http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre_p100eww/webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar Jul 19 03:21:13 I some days earlier, i studied the libs in doctor image and objdumped some libs Jul 19 03:21:45 ok then you've got it Jul 19 03:21:56 we should be able to hack it for you so you can flash a pre-rooted version Jul 19 03:22:49 then I think owning a pre would be a huge help ,so i bought it 2 days ago Jul 19 03:23:38 ameng1: also I recommend getting the linux sdk -- it has an emulated version of a webos device (x86) Jul 19 03:23:58 x86?? Jul 19 03:23:59 whats new Jul 19 03:24:05 destinal__: ok Jul 19 03:24:08 Rubin: yes the emulator image is an x86 box Jul 19 03:24:15 yeah , its x86 Jul 19 03:24:18 i thought the pre was arm.. Jul 19 03:24:21 it is Jul 19 03:24:25 the emulator is nothing like a pre Jul 19 03:24:32 weird Jul 19 03:24:36 its running webos just built for x86 Jul 19 03:24:52 virtualbox supports arm. wonder why they did that Jul 19 03:25:12 so you could, in theory, boot an old laptop with webos? Jul 19 03:25:16 probably to get a disconnect from the SDK and the actual images Jul 19 03:25:29 Rubin: yes, in theory Jul 19 03:25:43 summatusmentis: probably for performance Jul 19 03:25:59 destinal__: that's possible too, but would that really be an issue? Jul 19 03:26:02 also some kinds of debugging might be easier for some developers with a familiar architecture Jul 19 03:26:08 gdb etc Jul 19 03:26:19 probably protect their own stuff be hacked to use on other arm device... Jul 19 03:26:22 gdb for webOS stuff? Jul 19 03:26:31 ameng1: I don't think so Jul 19 03:26:40 summatusmentis: I mean for internal devs Jul 19 03:26:43 summatusmentis: at palm Jul 19 03:26:45 destinal__: oh, right Jul 19 03:26:46 they seem to be happy to put all their stuff out there more or less unprotected Jul 19 03:27:15 Rubin: I think they've seen through the "protection" illusion, adding junk to it just costs them time to cost the reverser time Jul 19 03:27:23 I think they're rather wise in this actually Jul 19 03:27:31 yeah i agree Jul 19 03:27:40 plus, it would be shitty to base it on linux and be like that. Jul 19 03:27:58 it happens Jul 19 03:28:04 also, the market already has that space filled (iphone) so its better to differenciate themselves Jul 19 03:28:18 well they want to focus on bang/buck Jul 19 03:28:34 drm / trusted platform stuff doesn't make them any money in this case Jul 19 03:28:51 for Apple it did (lucrative AT&T kickbacks per device activated) Jul 19 03:29:00 and if some chinese knock-off released with a hacked up webOS, its not really a problem Jul 19 03:29:49 well, more that they can't stop it Jul 19 03:29:55 apple has learned that as well Jul 19 03:30:18 they can invest money to force their opposition to invest money Jul 19 03:30:19 then if they open some underlying libs or even dev header files, the developer would do great things just than sdk, why did't they? Jul 19 03:31:02 in this case I think palm just wanted to make a kick ass platform and get it out there Jul 19 03:31:06 which makes a lot of sense Jul 19 03:31:13 ameng1, for one, US carriers are paranoid bastards, and if they let you 'do anything' in your app, they wont let them link it to their nets Jul 19 03:31:29 back again... Linux (I think) Noob question: How do I apply a patch file? Jul 19 03:31:38 flare576: patch < patchfile Jul 19 03:31:50 wow... that seems too easy lol, thanks :) Jul 19 03:31:58 surely you coulda googled that :P Jul 19 03:31:59 flare576: for some of palm's stuff you have to use patch -p0 < patchfile Jul 19 03:32:11 does it auto-backup the files? Jul 19 03:32:16 no Jul 19 03:32:40 Rubin: yeah, I didn't know if it was a global linux thing or a Pre-specific process. Jul 19 03:33:05 but thank you for helping me, I really appreciate it :) Jul 19 03:33:38 is there a page to go to on the wiki that shows what extensions are installed? I think we need one to try and include the category page's "special" listing of items Jul 19 03:33:53 After rooting the Palm Pre, how do you disable any modifications made internally prior to applying an official Palm update to WebOS short of manually copying backups or modifying modified files back to originals? Jul 19 03:34:32 pg13, the stuff I saw had you put everything you make in /opt/ so its not modifying the parts the update would break Jul 19 03:35:02 Rubin: I see. What if I wanted to modify the launcher in order to add additional launcher pages? Jul 19 03:35:45 http://predev.wikidot.com/add-delete-pages-in-the-launcher Jul 19 03:36:20 ameng1: are you interested in the flashing a custom rootfs (ie a pre-rooted webos doctor) method? I may be able to spend a little bit of time playing with the idea Jul 19 03:38:06 destinal__: Yeah Jul 19 03:38:24 pg13, not sure. you might just have to back it up Jul 19 03:38:29 absolutely Jul 19 03:38:44 Rubin: I see. :o Jul 19 03:39:16 I might as well just wait until 1.1 comes out and see if they added additional launcher pages in the update. Jul 19 03:39:56 Rubin: That is pretty much the only modification I do so wish for. Although, I also wish for a terminal on my Pre so I can ssh into remote locations. However, I know that this functionality is still non-existant for the time-being whether I root or not. Jul 19 03:40:05 pg13, patching palm software is always slightly risky that an update will overwrite. Jul 19 03:40:11 Rubin: Thus, I shall patiently wait a brighter day in the future. :o Jul 19 03:40:16 That's why we use patch files... easy to update. Jul 19 03:40:22 pg13, ajaxterm is damn near usable Jul 19 03:40:32 Rubin: Really? Jul 19 03:40:34 pg13, install it on a linux box somewhere and https:// to it in the browser Jul 19 03:40:46 Rubin: Does ajaxterm support curses and screen? Jul 19 03:40:52 Rubin, they're getting really REALLY close to haveing a real terminal. Jul 19 03:40:52 the problem with it is nothing as far as an input box/form has focus, so when you type, it WORKS, but the pre also tries to do a search Jul 19 03:40:55 hmmm....I probably should have made the Hardware category be Pre_Hardware or similar, so when new webOS devices come out the hardware lists can be different Jul 19 03:41:11 They've got a browser plugin that is accepting mojo events Jul 19 03:41:11 Rick__, who? Jul 19 03:41:14 who is on that can change categories on the new wiki? Jul 19 03:41:20 and which is drawing on the screen. Jul 19 03:41:22 change category names, I mean Jul 19 03:41:54 to me, a shell on my pre is not really as useful as a shell on my linux server Jul 19 03:41:57 Rick: Is there a patch for adding additional launcher pages to the Palm Pre launcher or an explanation/tutorial of the patching method? o_O Jul 19 03:42:02 destinal__, bpadalino, asedeno_, and others Jul 19 03:42:11 it's all been pretty much worked on in the open on this channel Jul 19 03:42:31 and yes, ajaxterm supports ncurses etc Jul 19 03:42:37 PuffTheMagic and raeb and tlz now also Jul 19 03:42:38 i use it to run bitchx Jul 19 03:42:49 Rubin: not bad not bad Jul 19 03:43:12 one teeny tiny out of the way input element to tell the pre not to try and search, and it'd be quite usable Jul 19 03:43:24 i havnt got around to doing that yet tho Jul 19 03:43:34 course, TuSSH via classic works too.... Jul 19 03:43:51 http://predev.wikidot.com/applying-patches <-- If I follow this, will I be safe for any and all updates in the futre Rick? Jul 19 03:44:07 Rubin: The problem is, I am not rich enough to afford Classic. I wish I was. :/ Jul 19 03:44:31 I am, but I didnt buy it because the old palm interface is so bad compared to the pre i just couldnt stand using it Jul 19 03:46:50 destinal__: faint. I turned off the dev mode , then novacom wored. sigh!!! Jul 19 03:47:07 ameng1: you turned OFF dev mode and it worked? Jul 19 03:47:53 ameng1: or off and back on? Jul 19 03:48:00 destinal__: can not believe Jul 19 03:48:19 on into off Jul 19 03:48:34 ameng1: ok, it's gotta be the modifications where you got it Jul 19 03:48:49 ameng1: they made it activate bypassed and inverted devmode Jul 19 03:48:59 meaining it's on by default and off when you turn it on??!? Jul 19 03:49:00 odd Jul 19 03:49:07 it seems to be that Jul 19 03:49:17 amazing you found that Jul 19 03:49:30 strange Jul 19 03:50:46 Then what can i do to ssh into the phone? Jul 19 03:51:29 after execute the novacom cmd Jul 19 03:53:00 destinal__:? Jul 19 03:53:05 ok so you want to install dropbear. Jul 19 03:53:21 yeah Jul 19 03:53:31 the way we've been doing it is setting up an optware feed (assuming your pre can access the optware repository via http) Jul 19 03:53:42 if it can't you may have to download it by hand and copy the ipkg over and install it Jul 19 03:54:03 http://predev.wikidot.com/next-steps-after-rooting Jul 19 03:54:06 you know china just like a big LAN, i can not visit some stuff directly. he Jul 19 03:54:21 right Jul 19 03:54:30 destinal__: get any where today with Pirahna? Jul 19 03:54:37 PuffTheMagic: palm sent me headers Jul 19 03:54:53 destinal__: do you have permission to upload them somewhere? Jul 19 03:54:55 PuffTheMagic: not all of them but the ones we knew we were missing Jul 19 03:55:02 wow ,you got the headers! Jul 19 03:55:05 rwhitby: they mentioned no license, just emailed them to me Jul 19 03:55:17 so I'm not sure what I can do really Jul 19 03:55:20 destinal__: any copyright in the files? Jul 19 03:55:29 destinal__: will you forward them to me? Jul 19 03:55:34 destinal__: did it come from the opensource email address? Jul 19 03:55:37 yes Jul 19 03:55:45 that's a safe assumption then Jul 19 03:55:49 and it's missing headers for an OSS release also Jul 19 03:55:54 I'm sure it's under the same license Jul 19 03:55:57 still got my e-mail? Jul 19 03:56:07 destinal__: put it on gitorious, and place the email they sent you in the LICENSE file Jul 19 03:56:10 we can give it a deep analysis now Jul 19 03:56:53 destinal__: hopefully the next release on opensource.palm.com will contain them Jul 19 03:57:08 rwhitby: it's still missing more #include "file.h" type stuff Jul 19 03:57:36 they gave me exactly the headers I asked for and nothing else that those included Jul 19 03:58:00 well i guess we shoudl send them a more detailed follow up Jul 19 03:58:07 since they seems to respond well Jul 19 03:58:35 * destinal__ agrees. Jul 19 03:58:43 will do in a bit Jul 19 03:58:59 I agree their responsiveness is quite good Jul 19 03:59:01 howdy Jul 19 04:03:30 rwhitby: seeing you talk about PreWare, and reading over http://discussion.treocentral.com/web-os-development/187331-installing-homebrew-apps-w-out-rooting-3.html again got me thinking about what I was playing with on Friday Jul 19 04:03:56 drnull_: what's that? Jul 19 04:04:04 so I tried this: http://webos.pastebin.com/m34598a3 and it worked, which surprised me. Old news? Jul 19 04:04:31 drnull_: that's expected to work, yes. Jul 19 04:04:41 Just seems like we could have a com.palm.preware app that downloaded signed ipk homebrew files and installed them? Jul 19 04:04:49 we'll be adding signing support to preware Jul 19 04:06:28 so once the first app is loaded (the com.palm.preware one) via dev mode/sdk/whatever, you're good to go, no rooting required? Jul 19 04:06:50 nodnod. an alt-app-store in essence. Jul 19 04:06:51 agh, I used the r word. Jul 19 04:07:02 25 cents Jul 19 04:07:06 infobot, slap me please. Jul 19 04:07:07 * infobot slaps me please., keep your grubby fingers to yourself! Jul 19 04:07:17 hahahaha Jul 19 04:07:17 meh, close enough. Jul 19 04:07:30 infobot, slap drnull_ Jul 19 04:07:31 * infobot slaps drnull_, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! Jul 19 04:07:38 thanks! Jul 19 04:07:40 welcome Jul 19 04:07:55 infobot, slap him with salmon of correction Jul 19 04:07:57 * infobot slaps him with salmon of correction, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! Jul 19 04:08:07 hehehehe Jul 19 04:08:16 wow, that dates me. Jul 19 04:08:46 the salmon of correction was a frozen fish used to slap offenders on BIX around 1982... :-) Jul 19 04:11:49 so anyways... just wondering then, I guess, why any command line based PreWare was being worked on? Jul 19 04:12:09 because you start somewhere.... Jul 19 04:12:14 I mean, isn't ipkg the command line version of it? Jul 19 04:12:54 drnull_: yeah, who said a command line version was being worked on? Jul 19 04:13:27 ipkg should be all that's needed from the pre command line if you're talking a local installer Jul 19 04:13:33 maybe I just misread what rwhitby said Jul 19 04:14:38 "command line only at the moment. integration with GUI to come later, after infrastructure is in place." I took that to mean that he was working on a command-line version, just struck me as odd. Jul 19 04:14:47 drnull_: I'm working on the feeds and infrastructure to fill the feeds Jul 19 04:15:07 ipkg is the command line client. a GUI client to be done by whoever is interested Jul 19 04:16:09 and there will just be a url providing feeds via json/xml/something easy to parse out? Jul 19 04:16:27 drnull_: ipkg.conf Jul 19 04:16:50 (or the equivalent pre-entered into the app) Jul 19 04:17:21 drnull_: BTW, I doubt the app can be com.palm.preware, since Palm is not likely to write such an app. Jul 19 04:17:51 Understood, but that's the only way to have access to the appinstaller service. Jul 19 04:18:11 drnull_: not true. commander can run ipkg fine Jul 19 04:18:18 er, the only way without installing other services as root. Jul 19 04:18:43 drnull_: you need to install an initial app anyway. It can contain the required service. Jul 19 04:19:15 but commander can't be installed without actually logging in to the pre, correct? SDK install for commander doesn't work I though Jul 19 04:19:17 (correctly protected to only run luna-send to the real appinstaller service) Jul 19 04:19:40 drnull_: are you sure? I can't see why not (other than that we intentionally haven't signed it) Jul 19 04:20:09 can someone verify that one way or the other? Jul 19 04:20:53 I remember doing the palm-install thing, then trying the luna-send and it not working. Maybe I missed a reboot or something? I guess I can try in the emulator. Jul 19 04:21:24 Any reason http://predev.wikidot.com/track-skipping-using-volume-up-down-buttons isn't in the quilt repository? Jul 19 04:21:39 drnull_: did you sign it? Jul 19 04:21:58 flare576: only cause no-one has contributed the patch yet Jul 19 04:22:04 nope, good point Jul 19 04:22:18 drnull_: our safety net worked then :-) Jul 19 04:23:02 so the installer service only installs signed packages? Jul 19 04:23:17 do they have to be palm signed? Jul 19 04:23:18 rwhitby: oh, is there a way I can do that? Jul 19 04:23:33 flare576: sure - follow the applying-patches page Jul 19 04:23:40 oh wait your pastebin had a self-signed so I guess that works Jul 19 04:24:01 rwhitby: kk, I'll see what I can do; I think that funcitonality is awesome. Jul 19 04:24:22 flare576: are you familiar with diff or patch or quilt? Jul 19 04:24:26 destinal__: yes, self signed is fine with the installer... just have to make sure you have cert.perm and not mycert.perm :) Jul 19 04:25:17 rwhitby: I'm a total linux noob, but I do know what diff and patch mean, and I believe quilt is a quasi-CVS Jul 19 04:25:45 flare576: quilt is quite different from CVS (git is analogous to CVS) Jul 19 04:26:23 rwhitby: ah, alright Jul 19 04:28:11 rwhitby: is the idea to use commander/ipkg manually instead of appinstaller in case palm patches appinstaller later to block this method (like actually checking the cert) Jul 19 04:29:39 hrm, I feel like I'm stepping on toes checking in someone else's code... Jul 19 04:31:09 drnull_: the idea is to have multiple ways to do the same thing, so you can route around problems. Jul 19 04:31:48 flare576: all patches on the wiki are explicitly licensed with the MIT license specifically so you don't need to feel uncomfortable doing that. Jul 19 04:32:10 flare576: you're doing the original author a good service. Jul 19 04:33:00 rwhitby: aighty, cool. working learning my way around Jul 19 04:34:33 ameng1: did you manage to download your dropbear package by alternate means and ipkg install it? Jul 19 04:35:09 better would be download the ipkg-opt package, install that, then ipkg install the dropbear package Jul 19 04:35:59 only you have to do it by hand since you can't reach the feed Jul 19 04:36:12 with phone Jul 19 04:36:16 destinal__: yeah , now I can ssh into my pre. appreciate your help Jul 19 04:36:18 * Templarian sleeps zzZZzzzZzz, formatted so much of the new wiki and thinks people need to do serious data transfers. Jul 19 04:37:25 ameng1: excellent. you're welcome. congratulations, you're the first inverted dev mode person I've met :) Jul 19 04:37:41 :) Jul 19 04:44:03 rwhitby: signed services file didn't install via palm-install, I had to ipkg it to get the luna-send command to work, fwiw Jul 19 04:44:34 drnull_: can you pastebin that for us please? Jul 19 04:45:09 destinal__: what's an inverted dev mode person? Jul 19 04:46:08 rwhitby: he had his phone modified by some chinese company he bought it from to bypass activation so it could be used out there. turns out the reason he couldn't access novacom on the phone was that he had turned on dev mode which actually disabled novacom (it had been running by default) -- he turned dev mode off again and novacom started up Jul 19 04:46:39 so they must have modified it further than just activation, to be default dev mode on, just in an odd way Jul 19 04:46:50 weird Jul 19 04:47:21 good to know that our work is increasing Palm sales to china, the world's fastest growing market for smartphones ... Jul 19 04:47:34 rwhitby: I'm not sure how valuable it will be, there was the linux side of things signing it, dos side of things palm-installing it, then the emu side of things it not working, then the emu side of things, running ipkg install, then it working. I'll see what I can copy that makes sense. Jul 19 04:48:01 walk & bbl Jul 19 04:48:01 drnull_: thx - we'd like to know what stops it working Jul 19 04:48:36 rwhitby: I was starting to get desperate and thinking we'd have to make him a custom bypassed rooted dr image. ;) Jul 19 04:48:53 then he tried turn it off and trying again -- I never would have thought of that Jul 19 04:49:39 thats funny. had a coworker spend all day trying to get SATA drive to work in this box... finally turned out the jumper block on the mobo to enable/disable sata was labeled backwards.... Jul 19 04:52:53 rwhitby, hope it helps: http://webos.pastebin.com/m23c7d966 Jul 19 04:53:20 hi Jul 19 04:53:23 i am at a wedding Jul 19 04:53:25 kind of drunk Jul 19 04:53:25 sorry Jul 19 04:53:26 :( Jul 19 04:54:02 oh Jul 19 04:54:06 this is the logged channel Jul 19 04:54:07 crap Jul 19 04:54:55 ipkg remove org.webosinternals.services doesn't seem to remove it... odd. Jul 19 04:55:21 drnull_: did you reboot between installing the service and trying to use it? Jul 19 04:55:33 yes, I didn't include that in the c&p Jul 19 04:55:37 let me verify Jul 19 04:56:08 bpadalino: lol Jul 19 04:56:12 yes, first tried stop LunaSysMgr && start LunaSysMgr, still no joy, then reboot, still no joy. Jul 19 04:56:36 drnull_: did the palm-install put the files in the right place? Jul 19 04:56:42 ok, after a reboot, the pkg is really gone. Jul 19 04:56:54 now that it's gone again and luna-send isn't "working" I can test that. Jul 19 04:59:54 shocking, "l /etc/event.d/org.* /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.* /usr/lib/luna/java/org.* " returns no files after installing via palm-install. I would think that I had screwed something up if it wasn't that exact same file that I used to ipkg install later. Jul 19 05:00:15 drnull_: check /var/.... Jul 19 05:00:42 yep, there they are Jul 19 05:01:02 so palm-install forces the root to be /var Jul 19 05:01:12 drnull_: we believe the app installer service simply does "ipkg -o /var install ..." Jul 19 05:02:08 gotcha. So the only way (so far) to get org.webosinternals.services in is to manually ipkg install it. Jul 19 05:02:35 hmm Jul 19 05:02:35 you could scp it manually Jul 19 05:02:54 PuffTheMagic: if you've got root, then that's the same Jul 19 05:04:01 drnull_: you could probably chain Jul 19 05:04:34 drnull_: you create an ipkg with another ipkg whose postinstall script runs the local ipkg command Jul 19 05:04:43 that way the outside ipkg gets installed with the service Jul 19 05:04:52 and then installs the inside one out of var Jul 19 05:05:00 I mean anywhere, not just var Jul 19 05:05:17 it could wget it if you so desired, I assume Jul 19 05:05:21 sure Jul 19 05:05:23 destinal_: I don't think installs by palm-install run postinst Jul 19 05:05:23 cool Jul 19 05:05:30 ah Jul 19 05:05:33 that's worth checking Jul 19 05:05:48 I guess it would be too easy to put rm commands in :) Jul 19 05:06:09 if no postinst I can't see how we'd get out of var that way then Jul 19 05:06:20 does anyone know for sure? Jul 19 05:06:49 heh, can an ipkg include a symbolic link Jul 19 05:06:51 * destinal_ gets devious Jul 19 05:07:26 destinal_: you've still got to run something, no? Jul 19 05:07:47 rwhitby: well if you could overwrite an upstart script.. but that's too messy Jul 19 05:08:13 for our purposes anyway Jul 19 05:08:17 sup guys Jul 19 05:08:17 destinal_: how are you going to cause the overwrite once you've put the symlink in place? Jul 19 05:08:40 hmm - maybe a craftily packed tar file Jul 19 05:08:42 whatcha guys workin on? Jul 19 05:08:43 right Jul 19 05:09:10 and actually you could make a new upstart script that way Jul 19 05:09:15 or any file Jul 19 05:09:16 destinal_: you don't need to overwrite, you can symlink to a non-existent file, then populate the file Jul 19 05:09:20 snap Jul 19 05:09:45 destinal_: you should do security work ;-) Jul 19 05:09:46 you could even just make the symlink point to an existing directory Jul 19 05:09:50 rwhitby: hehe Jul 19 05:10:05 and then a file in that directory in the clever tar Jul 19 05:10:11 yup Jul 19 05:12:47 ~seen simplyflipflops Jul 19 05:12:49 rwhitby: i haven't seen 'simplyflipflops' Jul 19 05:15:21 I'm not sure how that would work. A file in a tar is either a file, or a symlink. You can't symlink to a file and populate it without a postinst script, can you? Jul 19 05:17:27 nevermind, it works fine. Jul 19 05:18:30 http://webos.pastebin.com/m47df6271 Jul 19 05:25:38 drnull_: ok, so we have a viable installation mechanism for a service then Jul 19 05:28:03 well... I just tried repackaging the data.tar.gz with symbolic links and I can't get it to work. Could be doing it wrong.. pastebin upcoming Jul 19 05:33:11 http://webos.pastebin.com/m7f489489 files end up in /var still (I removed the old install and made sure they weren't there before doing the palm-install, and they came back in /var) Jul 19 05:35:00 fwiw, root is rw Jul 19 05:39:16 well, that's all the bad news/non-solutions I can deliver for one night. night, all. Jul 19 05:45:43 four apps in PreWare now Jul 19 05:46:00 Rick__: I put one of yours in, as requested. Jul 19 05:46:18 Rick__: it was a good test of needing to modify the package before publishing :-) Jul 19 05:47:13 * rwhitby points to line 14 and 15 of http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/preware/blobs/master/apps/reversi/Makefile Jul 19 05:56:20 anyone figure out how to increase earpiece volume Jul 19 05:56:26 seems pretty quiet to me Jul 19 05:57:54 and what is this commander app? Jul 19 06:00:10 hell Jul 19 06:00:10 o Jul 19 06:00:46 anyone else here use precentral forums? Jul 19 06:01:12 http://predev.wikidot.com/dynamic-dns-for-your-pre-url-based-update Jul 19 06:03:05 there is a dyndns client for linux Jul 19 06:03:09 that we could autostart Jul 19 06:03:13 for rooted pres Jul 19 06:04:12 ddclient Jul 19 06:04:18 idk if its in optware though Jul 19 06:04:49 yes it is :D Jul 19 06:08:19 this method doesn't require an always-on daemon Jul 19 06:08:23 however Jul 19 06:08:41 there is ez-ipupdate and inadyn as well Jul 19 06:08:58 but this method doesn't even require optware, is just a shell script Jul 19 06:21:30 * rwhitby chuckles at http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/191213-my-tether-tether-over-wifi-usb-bt-v-1-2-1-rooting-required-45.html#post1760615 Jul 19 06:21:30 this would be a EASY mojo app Jul 19 06:22:13 PuffTheMagic: I think there's about 5 different dyndns apps in optware ... Jul 19 06:22:42 yeah... but a non daemon would be nice Jul 19 06:23:03 PuffTheMagic: commander was the proof of concept front-end for the proof of concept shell service. basically, you install both and you get a box in a card where you can type shell commands one at a time as root Jul 19 06:23:11 PuffTheMagic: some are non daemons Jul 19 06:23:25 * rwhitby wonders if hotplug works on the Pre ... Jul 19 06:23:40 rwhitby: i am thinking of a patch against the network settings on the pre Jul 19 06:24:15 just use a timer... to do something periodically Jul 19 06:26:25 rwhitby: what would you hotplug? oh.. usb OTG Jul 19 06:26:50 meant to work on that this weekend, maybe tomorrow Jul 19 06:27:50 if preware or plugins don't eat all my spare time, and they probably will :) Jul 19 06:35:09 destinal_: I just got a reply from jwz giving his blessing for including his two apps in PreWare Jul 19 06:35:19 rwhitby: awesome Jul 19 06:35:35 Wish he would have replied to me about plugin questions Jul 19 06:35:36 oh well Jul 19 06:37:17 destinal_: maybe he remembered me as an XEmacs contributor from 10 years ago ;-) Jul 19 06:37:30 good karma never hurts Jul 19 06:38:47 has anyone changed the root password on the pre? Jul 19 06:38:54 does that mess up the sdk Jul 19 06:38:56 wow Jul 19 06:38:56 PuffTheMagic: yeah, just "passwd root" Jul 19 06:39:00 i missed the mytether drama Jul 19 06:39:02 PuffTheMagic: yeah, people using agent forwarding have Jul 19 06:39:03 doesn't hurt anything Jul 19 06:39:07 ... i know HOW to change it Jul 19 06:39:13 iwas wondering if it broke things Jul 19 06:39:23 FuMan: wasn't much of a drama Jul 19 06:39:37 care to sum it up in 3 setences? Jul 19 06:39:43 PuffTheMagic: sorry, had no idea if something was wrong Jul 19 06:39:58 I asked some questions, he answered them, people are aware of the security hole, mytether is not an open source app. Jul 19 06:40:14 no i was looking at a tut on the wiki and it mentioned creating a non-root user Jul 19 06:40:23 so i was trying to think of why Jul 19 06:40:27 besides good practice Jul 19 06:40:38 * PuffTheMagic has a habbit of working in root all the time Jul 19 06:40:44 PuffTheMagic: we don't allow root login with password, so we create a non-root user so people are made to sudo Jul 19 06:40:57 PuffTheMagic: good practice. And I think it's a great practice on a workstation or server but I can't justify sudo on my phone :) Jul 19 06:41:08 i added my self to wheel :D i hate sudo Jul 19 06:41:26 we allow root login with ssh keys, but you need to set a password first or neither ssh daemon will allow the login Jul 19 06:41:58 PuffTheMagic: yeah, those that know how can easily do things like that to avoid the inconvenience :-) Jul 19 06:41:59 yeah, root ssh keys are the way to go Jul 19 06:42:20 destinal_: works the same on both the Pre and the Emulator then Jul 19 06:42:30 and you get agent forwarding for fre Jul 19 06:43:08 * rwhitby is enjoying using PreWare to install all these homebrew apps on the emulator ... Jul 19 06:43:42 rwhitby: I take it the ones that rely on services would be a no go for now? Jul 19 06:43:45 so what homebrews do we have that are usefull Jul 19 06:43:49 custom services I mean Jul 19 06:43:59 destinal_: haven't got that far yet Jul 19 06:44:23 destinal_: put you should be able to ipkg-opt -o /var install them Jul 19 06:44:45 (well, ipkg-opt install the service first) Jul 19 06:44:58 the ipkg -o /var install the app Jul 19 06:45:04 s/the/then/ Jul 19 06:45:05 rwhitby meant: then ipkg -o /var install the app Jul 19 06:45:10 infobot: botsnack Jul 19 06:45:10 rwhitby: aw, gee Jul 19 06:45:30 rwhitby: did it just sed that for you? Jul 19 06:45:44 destinal_: yeah, that's the main reason I got infobot here Jul 19 06:45:58 s/did it/it did/ Jul 19 06:45:58 destinal_ meant: rwhitby: it did just sed that for you? Jul 19 06:46:01 cool Jul 19 06:46:13 best. feature. evar. Jul 19 06:46:38 destinal_: ~seen is pretty useful too Jul 19 06:46:57 ~seen tharris- Jul 19 06:46:59 tharris- was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 2d 2h 46m 15s ago, saying: 'yo'. Jul 19 06:47:54 ~botsnack Jul 19 06:47:54 rwhitby: thanks Jul 19 06:48:45 ok, any requests for apps to be added to PreWare ? Jul 19 06:48:56 testing, please ignore the noise Jul 19 06:49:01 s/i/1/g Jul 19 06:49:03 destinal_ meant: test1ng, please 1gnore the no1se Jul 19 06:49:13 wow Jul 19 06:49:14 gay Jul 19 06:49:19 the donation link for mytether is 10 Jul 19 06:49:21 :> Jul 19 06:49:42 wonder how he's doing on that Jul 19 06:49:51 i imagine, pretty well Jul 19 06:49:57 and i want the features of 1.2.4 Jul 19 06:50:06 but... thats kinda high imo Jul 19 06:50:06 what features Jul 19 06:50:14 destinal_: I'd say in the hundreds Jul 19 06:50:18 toggle sleep on/off Jul 19 06:50:25 set ssid/key Jul 19 06:50:27 http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/191213-my-tether-tether-over-wifi-usb-bt-v-1-2-1-rooting-required-45.html#post1760615 Jul 19 06:50:29 a couple key features Jul 19 06:50:31 rwhitby: not bad for a side project assuming no real hosting costs Jul 19 06:50:47 depending on how much time it took Jul 19 06:50:55 night guys.... ttyl Jul 19 06:51:08 destinal_: good luck to him. he's meeting a need. Jul 19 06:52:48 destinal_: of course when it's finally kosher to tether, a FOSS app will appear and cannibalise his donations, so he'll need to keep up the support. Jul 19 06:53:03 FOSS? Jul 19 06:53:09 or accept endgame for his donationware Jul 19 06:53:10 Free Open Source Software Jul 19 06:53:29 im just surprised out of all the pissed off people, no ones posted it Jul 19 06:53:29 heh Jul 19 06:53:30 rwhitby: depends on the quality of the FOSS app Jul 19 06:53:47 and level of support, yeah Jul 19 06:53:55 oh well, thanks for the questions answered Jul 19 06:53:58 night Jul 19 06:54:05 destinal_: a dodgy rip-off will be easy with the source in in the clear Jul 19 06:54:28 FuMan: who's pissed off about it/ Jul 19 06:54:36 s|/|?| Jul 19 06:54:39 well, at least that chris dude :P Jul 19 06:54:52 wow, that was the nerdiest correction ive ever seen :> Jul 19 06:54:53 infobot: no botsnack for you Jul 19 06:54:53 aw, gee, rwhitby Jul 19 06:55:10 who's pissed off about it/ Jul 19 06:55:31 s/\//\?/ Jul 19 06:55:32 * rwhitby waits for the LTS Jul 19 06:55:52 oh well Jul 19 06:56:00 ~lts Jul 19 06:56:01 i heard lts is Leaning Toothpick Syndrome. Jul 19 06:56:07 ~botsnack Jul 19 06:56:07 aw, gee, rwhitby Jul 19 06:58:45 the real way to make money on a pre app is to provide a service and consume it with a pre app. the browser model. Jul 19 06:59:48 name me a web site who feels threatened by their javascript being in the clear Jul 19 07:00:29 * rwhitby just realised that preware allows people to wget mirror ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all/ to their host machine, and then "palm-install *.ipk" Jul 19 07:00:39 nice Jul 19 07:01:16 that's a pretty easy installation method for a whole app feed :-) Jul 19 07:06:52 I find it hard to believe that nobody has added an ipk installer to the browser downloader.. seems like that would have been a logical step once email ipk got closed Jul 19 07:06:58 did someone do it and I missed it? Jul 19 07:09:03 I think someone did Jul 19 07:09:20 BTW, I just sent a note to Dieter about PreWare Jul 19 07:16:11 Quick question, just looking for insight before I try this: I need to switch from dropbear to openssh to be able to upload patches. If I ssh into the pre with dropbear, install OpenSSH and have it listen to a different port, then ssh into that port and uninstall dropbear... should that work? Jul 19 07:18:42 sure Jul 19 07:19:01 cool, trying now :) Jul 19 07:19:12 could always devmode and use novaterm as well Jul 19 07:19:38 might be cleaner Jul 19 07:19:54 raeb: would LOVE to, but my vista install hates novacomd, and I just put away my xp box before realizing I needed to switch. Jul 19 07:20:29 fun Jul 19 07:20:39 yeah; I'll let you know how this goes :) Jul 19 07:24:34 flare576: unless you install the openssh upstart script, you'll be fine Jul 19 07:24:58 flare576: I'd just leave dropbear server running, and use openssh client for the outgoing connection Jul 19 07:25:09 (that's what the applying-patches page recommends) Jul 19 07:26:47 meh, just finished unistalling dropbear, looks like it worked ok; I'm ssh'd into the openssh port Jul 19 07:27:07 does it slow the pre down at all when I'm not using it? Jul 19 07:27:29 larger memory footprint, i think Jul 19 07:27:31 openssh takes twice the run-time RAM footprint compared to dropbear Jul 19 07:27:53 even when it's only listening/waiting? Jul 19 07:27:57 yep Jul 19 07:28:01 hells bells :/ Jul 19 07:28:36 that's why we install both, and run the dropbear server and openssh on-demand clients Jul 19 07:28:48 * rwhitby bbl Jul 19 07:28:55 so, process would be to not include the script in event.d for openssh, and only kick it off when I (rarely) need to use it, but run dropbear normally? Jul 19 07:28:59 is there an alternative to openssh-sftp-server Jul 19 07:29:10 that may be more efficient Jul 19 07:29:28 vsftpd Jul 19 07:29:30 looks like Jul 19 07:32:59 has anybody compiled basic plugin for the device? Jul 19 07:33:09 wondering what i might need in the way of a toolkit, etc Jul 19 07:33:36 s/kit/chain/ Jul 19 07:33:36 raeb meant: wondering what i might need in the way of a toolchain, etc Jul 19 07:34:03 hah, that's cool Jul 19 07:34:07 rofl nifty Jul 19 07:35:33 quick question; I'm thinking I still need the /etc/event.d/optware-openssh file in place to start the app easily (ie: without having to type in all the parameters each time); if I just comment out the "start on stopped finish" line, does that make it not start on boot? Jul 19 07:37:03 hell with it, easy way to find out Jul 19 07:40:46 rwhitby: is there a java application in the applications.git that i could take a look at ? Jul 19 07:40:49 * raeb is a fan of managed code Jul 19 07:42:15 yay, taking out the start line does what I thought it would :) Jul 19 07:42:42 ... and my mouse has stopped responding... I love Vista sooooooo much! /restart Jul 19 07:44:28 lawl Jul 19 08:02:08 raeb: openssh-sftp-server is executed on demand when a connection is made, and can be run from dropbear Jul 19 08:02:15 so there is no real overhead in using it Jul 19 08:02:20 oo good point Jul 19 08:02:55 raeb: I'm using the optware toolchain ... Jul 19 08:03:35 compiling on the device? Jul 19 08:04:32 cross-compiling for it Jul 19 08:04:55 raeb: I'll be setting up preware to be able to compile plugins Jul 19 08:05:41 cool Jul 19 08:07:55 grr... The feature-add I'm trying to turn into an offical patch is, itself, in the form of a patch file, so I'm trying to run it with "patch < patch_file.patch" but I'm getting Hunk errors... sucks being a noob Jul 19 08:08:21 patch -p0 < patchfile.patch Jul 19 08:08:27 pee zero Jul 19 08:08:45 yeah, destinal_ suggested that as well, but it doesn't resolve the issue Jul 19 08:08:52 o Jul 19 08:08:57 wonder if I have an error in the file... Jul 19 08:09:58 nope, looks the same as the page... anyone familiar with patch syntax able to tell me if this is correct? http://predev.wikidot.com/track-skipping-using-volume-up-down-buttons Jul 19 08:15:43 I'll just do it by hand, this is like trying to climb a wall for the "hey, I did it!" factor when there's a door next to me. Jul 19 08:39:44 hah, this functionality sucks. I'll fix it tomorrow and put the patch up without all this volume changing crazyness. Jul 19 08:57:31 destinal_: I got a tap event through to the plugin Jul 19 08:58:11 yay Jul 19 08:58:27 destinal_: now I need to figure out how to force it to redraw Jul 19 08:58:27 and yay on Palm Jul 19 10:27:59 looks like mono works out of the box Jul 19 10:28:37 with what backend? Jul 19 10:28:59 sorry if that question makes no sense Jul 19 10:29:10 I mean X gtk-dfb, etc. Jul 19 10:29:17 hmmm Jul 19 10:29:41 so mono is a set of libraries enabling the system to run executables created in the .NET common language runtime Jul 19 10:29:47 i made an app in C# in visual studio windows Jul 19 10:29:50 copied to my device Jul 19 10:29:51 and ran it Jul 19 10:29:52 without problemn Jul 19 10:31:04 right Jul 19 10:31:10 how did you run it? Jul 19 10:31:12 no grafics tho Jul 19 10:31:14 command line Jul 19 10:31:19 ah Jul 19 10:31:20 right Jul 19 10:31:21 mono heloworld.exe Jul 19 10:31:28 of course Jul 19 10:31:39 has anyone run X with luna off? Jul 19 10:31:59 x isn't on the device Jul 19 10:32:00 it will probably have thesame issue with vyres as on android/msm Jul 19 10:32:10 I know that Jul 19 10:32:11 o Jul 19 10:32:30 would be interesting... Jul 19 10:32:43 it exists for eo/optware though Jul 19 10:32:45 oe Jul 19 10:32:53 at least for nslu Jul 19 10:39:59 how does a mojo app communicate with services on the phone? is there some sort of service bus? Jul 19 10:40:22 yes Jul 19 10:40:28 dbus and the ipc api Jul 19 10:44:47 thx Jul 19 11:02:45 morning everyone Jul 19 11:06:54 Good morning Jul 19 13:20:47 rwhitby: are you around? Jul 19 13:21:02 jcrawford: yep Jul 19 13:21:16 any idea why i would get this when pushing a patch to master? Jul 19 13:21:20 http://pastie.org/551152 Jul 19 13:21:24 i put the public key in gitorious Jul 19 13:22:04 gitorious says the key is ready also Jul 19 13:23:14 ah wait Jul 19 13:23:17 jcrawford: paste the output of ssh -v git@gitorious.org Jul 19 13:23:21 i have to use the email that is in the key right? Jul 19 13:23:24 yep Jul 19 13:23:29 no Jul 19 13:23:34 that's the issue it is jcrawford@castle Jul 19 13:23:39 oh ok Jul 19 13:23:39 no Jul 19 13:23:43 let me paste the output for you Jul 19 13:23:50 you have to tell git the same email that you told gitorious Jul 19 13:24:01 the comment field at the end of the key is irrelevant Jul 19 13:24:32 http://pastie.org/551153 Jul 19 13:24:34 that is the output Jul 19 13:26:03 jcrawford: does the email you have given in user.email in git match the email you registered on gitorious.org? Jul 19 13:26:13 rwhitby: yes Jul 19 13:26:57 sudo git config --global user.email "info@josephcrawford.com" Jul 19 13:27:01 jcrawford: paste your .git/config file please Jul 19 13:27:07 moment Jul 19 13:27:49 where is that file found? Jul 19 13:28:03 i do not see it in /root/.git/ or /jcrawford/.git/ Jul 19 13:28:17 in /opt/src/modifications/.git - it's per repo Jul 19 13:28:31 ok Jul 19 13:28:36 what URL did you use to clone this repo? Jul 19 13:29:04 http://pastie.org/551155 Jul 19 13:29:45 i used this to clone Jul 19 13:29:46 git clone git://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications.git Jul 19 13:30:19 you need to use the push URL to clone if you want to push back Jul 19 13:30:31 doh Jul 19 13:30:35 the wiki did not say that Jul 19 13:31:02 hang on, your origin url is correct in your .git/config Jul 19 13:32:01 yeah, that is fine Jul 19 13:32:58 not sure why it connects fine with the keys but when i try to push it bonks our Jul 19 13:32:59 jcrawford: are you running the git commands as jcrawford or as root? Jul 19 13:33:00 *out Jul 19 13:33:06 rwhitby: as root Jul 19 13:33:13 with sudo Jul 19 13:33:18 well jcrawford as sudo :) Jul 19 13:33:28 can you show me the output of ssh -v git@gitorious.org as root? Jul 19 13:33:42 oh, do you use sudo -i ? Jul 19 13:33:58 ahh Jul 19 13:34:05 looks like i do not need to sudo for git for some reason Jul 19 13:34:09 http://pastie.org/551157 Jul 19 13:34:35 but if i do not sudo Jul 19 13:34:42 i get permission denied on push ha Jul 19 13:34:43 ha Jul 19 13:35:23 jcrawford: are you intending to store your private key on your phone, or are you using agent forwarding? Jul 19 13:35:46 it's on the phone Jul 19 13:35:54 i guess i need to ssh-keygen for the root user Jul 19 13:35:57 as i did for jcrawford Jul 19 13:35:57 but it's not in root's dir Jul 19 13:35:58 sec Jul 19 13:36:09 copy it across, don't generate a new one Jul 19 13:37:13 ok Jul 19 13:37:18 now it says everything up to date :) Jul 19 13:37:25 thanks rwhitby and sorry to bother for that lame issue hah Jul 19 13:37:48 jcrawford: please update the wiki page to make sure the next guy does not make the same mistake Jul 19 13:38:08 rwhitby: i havent a clue how to edit wiki yet :) gimme a sec to figure it out Jul 19 13:40:05 Sorry, you can not edit this page. Only members of this site, owner (creator) of this page, site administrators and perhaps selected moderators are allowed to. Jul 19 13:43:49 jcrawford: I've sent you the pwd to use when joining the site Jul 19 13:43:56 ok Jul 19 13:47:53 changes made Jul 19 14:19:52 rwhitby: you still around? i am trying to do git pull in /opt/src/modifications and it is complaining that i did not specify a branch Jul 19 14:20:10 Please Jul 19 14:20:10 specify which branch you want to merge on the command line and Jul 19 14:20:10 try again (e.g. 'git pull '). Jul 19 14:20:10 See git-pull(1) for details. Jul 19 14:20:38 jcrawford: pastebin your .git/config file again please Jul 19 14:21:00 http://pastie.org/551185 Jul 19 14:21:35 you want: Jul 19 14:21:38 [branch "master"] Jul 19 14:21:38 remote = origin Jul 19 14:21:39 merge = refs/heads/master Jul 19 14:21:51 ok will add that now Jul 19 14:22:09 that should happen when you clone using the push URL Jul 19 14:22:39 I guess if you clone using the anonymous URL, and then do the origin switch, you don't get the master stuff Jul 19 14:22:54 jcrawford: please update the wiki :-) Jul 19 14:23:01 will do Jul 19 14:23:02 thanks Jul 19 14:23:05 midnight, I'm outta here. Jul 19 14:23:08 * rwhitby bbt Jul 19 14:23:14 have a good night Jul 19 14:23:57 morning Jul 19 14:24:58 jcrawford: cp your .ssh/id_rsa/dsa files from /root/.ssh to your non root user Jul 19 14:25:04 then you wont have to sudo Jul 19 14:25:33 PuffTheMagic: i have them in both places, still have to sudo Jul 19 14:25:35 not sure why Jul 19 14:25:42 that dont make sense Jul 19 14:25:57 unless root owns some files in that git dir Jul 19 14:26:16 did you try chowning the whole thing Jul 19 14:27:43 oh yea root owns the files Jul 19 14:27:45 that is why :D Jul 19 14:31:55 i have to say i am not a fan of the sotfware gitorious uses to show git commits and shit Jul 19 14:32:01 * PuffTheMagic is so used to gitweb Jul 19 14:41:20 man someone already wrote a script for location tracking haha Jul 19 14:41:37 i was planning on doing that incase i lost my phone or if it was stolen Jul 19 14:45:05 odd i applied my patch but it did not seem to actually apply :( Jul 19 14:47:20 after looking at the files i can see that the patch was not applied :( Jul 19 14:48:01 hmm Jul 19 14:48:07 looking at the patch itself it looks fine Jul 19 14:52:52 jcrawford: are you creating your patches manually Jul 19 14:53:03 or are u tracking your work with git then using git-diff to make the patch? Jul 19 14:53:09 how do i remove a single patch? Jul 19 14:53:17 yes i created the patch using quilt Jul 19 14:53:22 well git Jul 19 14:53:23 :) Jul 19 14:53:47 patch -p -R Jul 19 14:55:13 wtf Jul 19 14:55:16 i do Jul 19 14:55:37 quilt pop /opt/src/patches/camera/capture_with_volume_keys.patch and it says No patch removed Jul 19 14:55:39 if i di Jul 19 14:55:41 ehhh... i still dont understand why people are using quilt Jul 19 14:55:51 quilt pop /opt/src/modification/camera/capture_with_volume_keys.patch Jul 19 14:56:00 it says the patch is not in my series Jul 19 14:56:15 jcrawford: seriously... why not just use git and forget about quilt Jul 19 14:56:40 PuffTheMagic people are using quilt because many many of the patches for existing apps in mojo require patching as many as 5 files, and quilt handles checking to see if the underlying file has already been patched and deals with collisions Jul 19 14:57:00 git does that too... and better Jul 19 14:57:05 and also allows you to patch easilly after an OTA Jul 19 14:57:17 OTA? Jul 19 14:57:40 guys i have a pretty noobish question Jul 19 14:57:41 over the air updarte? Jul 19 14:58:02 i've been able to mod some apps using some instructions on the wiki site Jul 19 14:58:11 yes PuffTheMagic Jul 19 14:58:14 but how would i mod stock apps through the emulator Jul 19 14:58:33 gordian: you have to ssh into the emulator: ssh root@localhost -p 5522 Jul 19 14:58:36 do i need to ssh or sftp into the emulator? Jul 19 14:58:40 use the word password as the password Jul 19 14:58:46 ahhh coool Jul 19 14:59:35 holy fantasticness Jul 19 14:59:40 why would this patch not apply? Jul 19 14:59:41 thanks jcrawford Jul 19 14:59:43 does quilt have an error log? Jul 19 14:59:46 gordian: no problem Jul 19 15:00:01 'password' works for root for things like winscp? Jul 19 15:00:04 interesting Jul 19 15:05:18 wtf Jul 19 15:05:20 http://pastie.org/551203 Jul 19 15:05:24 anyone have any idea? Jul 19 15:18:38 Morning PuffTheMagic -- Jul 19 15:18:42 how are things going? Jul 19 15:19:01 did the headers that destinal_ got help? Jul 19 15:20:55 no Jul 19 15:21:01 there were non of the ones I needed Jul 19 15:21:49 i will need to make a better list Jul 19 15:22:45 how do you delete a patch pushed into git? Jul 19 15:23:14 quilt does not seem to like my patch :( does not apply any of the code. Want to start from scratch and follow all instructions again to see if i messed something up Jul 19 15:23:20 jcrawford: revert it Jul 19 15:23:21 but the files are already in the git repo Jul 19 15:23:22 use git log Jul 19 15:23:27 and get the commit id Jul 19 15:23:28 then do Jul 19 15:23:33 git revert Jul 19 15:23:59 thanks puff Jul 19 15:24:28 PuffTheMagic sorry to hear that. I had hopes. :-( Do you think there's any chance that they'll give out the ones you want? destinal_ said he was going to put in a more detailed request..... Jul 19 15:25:45 can i chown /opt/src* to my normal user without any complications? Jul 19 15:27:15 so if i've totally messed my emulator, how can i reinstall everything back to normal? Jul 19 15:27:28 gordian: reinstall the sdk? Jul 19 15:27:34 ok Jul 19 15:27:49 thought there might be a quicker way Jul 19 15:29:06 i need to write a script that listens to acpi events Jul 19 15:29:14 how can i get bash to stop hiding long commands with the > Jul 19 15:29:15 and turns of powerd when charging Jul 19 15:29:26 it doesnt even go half way accross my window before doing that :( Jul 19 15:29:34 ' /opt/bin/ipkg-opt: line 1: syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")") ' Jul 19 15:29:37 of course... there is no /proc/acpi though Jul 19 15:29:48 PuffTheMagic: write one that listens for incomming ssh connections and turns off powerd Jul 19 15:29:50 i get this error on the emu every time i try to 'ipkg update' Jul 19 15:29:55 or even install sudo Jul 19 15:30:05 then when an ssh connection ends, have it check for other active connections, if there are none turn powerd back on :D Jul 19 15:30:12 i want that but have no idea how to do it heh Jul 19 15:30:23 ssh dont trigger any system events like acpi would Jul 19 15:30:27 damn Jul 19 15:30:30 i really dont want to poll for ssh connections Jul 19 15:30:36 yes u do :D Jul 19 15:35:26 nice Jul 19 15:35:27 suspend_with_charger = true Jul 19 15:35:33 ^^ in powerd confdig file Jul 19 15:35:37 it was false Jul 19 15:35:39 by default Jul 19 15:38:50 you do want it to suspend? Jul 19 15:40:24 ohhhhhhhhh Jul 19 15:40:39 i interpreted that wrong Jul 19 15:43:03 hey guys... i suggest we reorganize the git repo a little bit Jul 19 15:43:08 at least for the repo with patches Jul 19 15:43:19 there should be a branch for each webos revision Jul 19 15:43:40 i mean most of the patches will still apply Jul 19 15:43:56 but some may not depending on how many changes there are Jul 19 15:46:02 yizzawn Jul 19 15:47:28 does anyone know the maintainer webpage for powerd? Jul 19 15:58:14 ahh i think i found it Jul 19 16:00:44 PuffTheMagic whats the link Jul 19 16:01:36 naa the only thing i am finding is a UPS power daemon Jul 19 16:09:42 PuffTheMagic: i would agree with your comment about the repo structure Jul 19 16:13:17 oc80z: i think powerd is a bsd prog Jul 19 16:18:06 have any of you guys seen cards not close when they're tossed off the top of the screen? Jul 19 16:18:25 i have one that stays off the top of the screen until i move the other card into view, then you can see it come back down Jul 19 16:20:38 Technobabble: happened to me once Jul 19 16:20:46 the card just stayed 1/2 way on the screen Jul 19 16:20:52 till i flicked it up again Jul 19 16:20:54 then it went away Jul 19 16:23:20 i'm gonna take a vid of it Jul 19 16:23:24 mine goes all the way off Jul 19 16:24:06 PuffTheMagic: branch means something different in git Jul 19 16:24:29 the version structure and the directory structure are seperate Jul 19 16:27:24 i know what a branch means in git Jul 19 16:27:32 you can use branches how ever u please Jul 19 16:27:49 a branch is essentially a storage locations Jul 19 16:27:53 master is the "default" Jul 19 16:28:05 but you can make a branch for what ever Jul 19 16:29:07 ok this is very weird, still the patch is not being applied to the files :( Jul 19 16:29:21 * jcrawford gives up for now reverts changes and goes to run some errands Jul 19 16:30:13 gag Jul 19 16:30:14 jcrawford@castle:/opt/src/modifications$ sudo git revert 44ea4e11ca6f32208e138f29c42c78b34e6a630f Jul 19 16:30:14 Automatic revert failed. After resolving the conflicts, Jul 19 16:30:14 mark the corrected paths with 'git add ' or 'git rm ' and commit the result. Jul 19 16:30:14 jcrawford@castle:/opt/src/modifications$ Jul 19 16:31:33 now i am just getting dirty index cannot revert bah Jul 19 16:38:17 jcrawford: do you have any untracked changes Jul 19 16:38:20 you can do Jul 19 16:38:22 git reset --hard Jul 19 16:38:25 then try and revert Jul 19 16:38:33 and if u still get dirty do Jul 19 16:38:47 rm -rf *; git checkout -f Jul 19 16:38:49 then revert Jul 19 16:39:00 that is assuming that all your files are tracked by git Jul 19 16:39:44 PuffTheMagic: oh, by reorganize I though you meant create directories per version, like 1.0.5 Jul 19 16:40:57 all the patches i in the repo are formatted for 1.0.4, so when 1.1.0 comes out next week, someone should do "git branch -M master 1.0.4; git push origin 1.0.4" Jul 19 16:41:09 then start a new clean 1.1.0 branch with 1.1.0 patches Jul 19 16:41:27 it would be much easier to see on gitweb... i dont think gitorious shows branches that well Jul 19 16:42:22 we could make a webos-internals project at http://repo.or.cz/ too Jul 19 16:42:31 either use that or have it mirror the gitorious one Jul 19 16:42:55 gitorious is prettier but less functional Jul 19 16:45:22 yeah, that's what I meant Jul 19 16:45:28 okay, cool Jul 19 16:57:05 so i wonder if I can make a plugin app that switches to vt1 Jul 19 16:57:08 to get to root Jul 19 16:57:10 :D Jul 19 17:06:36 PuffTheMagic: sure Jul 19 17:06:48 it's an ioctl I think Jul 19 17:06:58 just strace chvt on your desktop Jul 19 17:07:25 well, is luna running on a vt? Jul 19 17:07:57 interesting Jul 19 17:08:11 are there vt's in webos? Jul 19 17:08:19 that's not the question Jul 19 17:08:38 the question is whether switching vt disables luna or it keeps writing to the framebuffer Jul 19 17:09:13 zgrep CONFIG_VT /proc/config.gz Jul 19 17:09:21 will tell you if there are vt's at all Jul 19 17:11:00 we will find out in a min Jul 19 17:11:06 i am almost done with this plugin Jul 19 17:12:11 PuffTheMagic: also, excellent idea re: matching patches with versions. it might even be better to match a patch with a version of an _app_ Jul 19 17:12:33 for instance: ipkg info com.palm.app.musicplayer Jul 19 17:12:34 does anyone know how to capture the Enter key press event? Almost all the keys come through except Enter. Jul 19 17:13:29 that way we only need define a range of versions a patch works on Jul 19 17:13:56 versions of that app, and if a new release of the os that doesn't update an app comes out we don't need to worry Jul 19 17:14:35 if the app version doesn't change the git branch will be the same Jul 19 17:14:57 I mean, the files in the git branch will be the same as an earlier revision Jul 19 17:15:30 ok testing chvt plugin :D Jul 19 17:16:21 hey destinal_ Jul 19 17:16:31 I suppose alsa still works across vt's? so if you get a phone call and you're in a different one you can switch? Jul 19 17:17:01 mrvc: good morning Jul 19 17:17:06 alsa? Jul 19 17:17:07 why? Jul 19 17:17:19 it dont have alsa on it Jul 19 17:17:20 or pulseaudio Jul 19 17:17:21 whatever Jul 19 17:17:22 i mean Jul 19 17:17:27 alsa in kernel yes Jul 19 17:17:28 vt's don't really mean anything, except for console Jul 19 17:17:30 no useland alsa tools Jul 19 17:17:37 what s chvt? Jul 19 17:17:40 the framebuffer and any devices are shared Jul 19 17:17:47 chvt is a cli app to switch vt's Jul 19 17:17:50 PuffTheMagic: right but pulseaudio still plugs into alsa Jul 19 17:17:58 right Jul 19 17:18:00 PuffTheMagic: my point was sounds are vt independent Jul 19 17:18:02 ok Jul 19 17:18:06 yeah Jul 19 17:18:39 well here's the other thing Jul 19 17:18:51 I don't think they keyboard is hooked into a vt Jul 19 17:19:06 intresting Jul 19 17:19:27 we may end up fighting over it. also maybe the touchscreen depending Jul 19 17:20:55 destinal_: I got tap/keypress events through to the plugin Jul 19 17:21:21 mrvc: excellent Jul 19 17:21:37 mrvc: using another app's mojo for now? Jul 19 17:21:52 no, I just modified the helloplugin Jul 19 17:22:00 mrvc: even better Jul 19 17:22:12 mrvc: do you have push rights to the git repo? Jul 19 17:22:22 no Jul 19 17:22:28 ok we'll get you that Jul 19 17:22:44 I don't even have an account on gitorious right now Jul 19 17:22:52 I'll make one Jul 19 17:22:54 kk Jul 19 17:23:17 only problem right now is the enter key doesn't work Jul 19 17:23:24 rwhitby: how do I make openssh reload sshd_config without killing connections? Jul 19 17:23:47 I'm not sure why it is special Jul 19 17:24:17 what do the keysyms look like in mojo? Jul 19 17:24:35 hmm Jul 19 17:24:42 it isn't even calling the listener if I press enter Jul 19 17:24:44 i am so shitty with debian userland Jul 19 17:24:52 if i wanted to start getty on more vty's Jul 19 17:24:54 how would I do this Jul 19 17:25:03 they dont use inittab right? Jul 19 17:25:52 add additional event.d files Jul 19 17:26:04 think ubuntu, not debian Jul 19 17:26:10 either way Jul 19 17:26:19 i tired a bunch of distros years back Jul 19 17:26:29 and got sick and stuck with gentoo Jul 19 17:26:38 respawn Jul 19 17:26:38 exec /sbin/getty -8 38400 tty1 Jul 19 17:26:39 so i am so lost on all these other userlands Jul 19 17:27:22 wsu ppeople Jul 19 17:28:40 atlanta: hey Jul 19 17:28:53 destinal_: wsup my man how was your weekend Jul 19 17:28:54 ? Jul 19 17:29:37 atlanta: it's going well. pre hacking and good beer, how can one complain? Jul 19 17:30:06 oh and palm sent me some piranha headers for the vector graphics lib but not all of them Jul 19 17:30:11 what do I have to do to inform my system i created a new event.d file Jul 19 17:30:18 PuffTheMagic: nothing Jul 19 17:30:22 restart the phone Jul 19 17:30:34 and it will run the script Jul 19 17:30:35 oh edited nothing Jul 19 17:30:38 i cant start it manually? Jul 19 17:30:42 new, I'm not sure Jul 19 17:30:43 initctl getty start Jul 19 17:30:48 destinal_: sounds like fun Jul 19 17:31:00 PuffTheMagic: yea u can do tha t Jul 19 17:31:05 initctl tty2 start Jul 19 17:31:08 initctl tty3 start Jul 19 17:31:29 destinal_: my gitorious account is vcato Jul 19 17:31:31 atlanta: yeah well I've tried to get out some too, spending too much time in front of the computer, but there's a lot of cool stuff to do Jul 19 17:31:40 it says unknown job: getty Jul 19 17:32:02 those tty's are configured with getty's Jul 19 17:32:03 destinal_: true that lol i tried to stay home and start on the google app but social life is bananas Jul 19 17:32:13 so I dropped my pre today and the touchscreen stopped working Jul 19 17:32:21 xcomp: :( Jul 19 17:32:28 xcomp: :(! Jul 19 17:32:40 i read about that online Jul 19 17:32:48 someone said they had to power cycle it to get it working again Jul 19 17:32:49 xcomp: ohh no Jul 19 17:32:56 it seems the only solution is to take it in for an exchange Jul 19 17:33:05 xcomp: sounds like you need to go into the PRE hall of shame lol Jul 19 17:33:09 xcomp: have you tried removing the battery and reinserting, just in case? Jul 19 17:33:15 done everything Jul 19 17:33:17 to no avail Jul 19 17:33:44 unfortunately wifi and bluetooth were turned off at the time when it dropped Jul 19 17:33:58 yup back to sprint. I've dropped my phone on carpet a couple of times, once in its case and once from snagging its usb cable. no harm though Jul 19 17:34:04 now I'm trying to figure out how I can enable them internally so I can backup my stuff Jul 19 17:34:31 destinal_: it dropped on a stone floor, about four feet Jul 19 17:35:03 xcomp: yeah, ouch. i had an iphone touchscreen stop because of that too, apple swapped it out (I didn't mention the fall) Jul 19 17:35:33 some people said the soldering wasn't as good as it should have been making it brittle Jul 19 17:36:12 xcomp: so you didn't have usbnet enabled then? Jul 19 17:36:12 yeah i would just say it stopped working Jul 19 17:36:19 and get it covered under 1 year warranty Jul 19 17:36:21 if possible Jul 19 17:36:32 xcomp: _always_ have usbnet enabled Jul 19 17:37:02 i had it enabled (and it says its enabled) but on my computer I run "ifup usb0" and it says it's not present Jul 19 17:37:38 xcomp: try unplugging and replugging Jul 19 17:37:50 xcomp: usbnet is hit and miss for me on fist plugin Jul 19 17:38:05 xcomp: then watch your dmsg to see if it shows up Jul 19 17:38:12 or just ifconfig usb0 Jul 19 17:39:24 mmm... I unplugged and replugged and now nothing -- no charge signal Jul 19 17:39:38 ugh Jul 19 17:39:46 i'll reboot and see what happens Jul 19 17:41:15 lol. reboot died. this keeps getting better Jul 19 17:41:29 cold reset time Jul 19 17:42:32 that seemed to work Jul 19 17:44:47 what is the difference between event.d and event.dis Jul 19 17:47:02 dis = disabled Jul 19 17:47:04 I believe Jul 19 17:47:14 heh...novacomd crashed whiel the phone was booting up Jul 19 17:47:34 xcomp: doh Jul 19 17:47:44 saw a call trace in my syslog Jul 19 17:48:14 damn yo i need to find out a novel way to download mp3 from the internet to the phone Jul 19 17:48:20 but usbnet works...yay Jul 19 17:48:30 atlanta: novel? well wget them, not that that's very novel Jul 19 17:48:59 destinal_: well that would require me to have users install webos-service so i can use another script right Jul 19 17:49:10 atlanta: ah you mean for users, like as an app Jul 19 17:49:14 yea Jul 19 17:49:38 aren't there browser patches that let you just download whatever filetype and save it to /media/internal? Jul 19 17:49:45 destinal_: ok heres my seneraio google voice when you try to listen to a voicemail from the mobile site on your phone Jul 19 17:49:48 so just click on it in a browser, save Jul 19 17:49:53 the streamer says error playing the file Jul 19 17:50:13 but the file is a mp3 so it should work Jul 19 17:50:24 so i was thinking downloading it and then play it Jul 19 17:50:42 atlanta: for google voice i'd say the best thing to do would be to make an entire mojo app for it Jul 19 17:50:51 thats what i was going to do Jul 19 17:51:10 but for random mp3 downloads from sites yeah a browser plugin would do it Jul 19 17:51:22 and I think it's out there already Jul 19 17:51:24 i cant get getty to start in the emu Jul 19 17:51:26 on tty Jul 19 17:51:29 really? Jul 19 17:51:33 i removed LunaSysMgr Jul 19 17:51:40 wtf Jul 19 17:51:50 you mean stopped it? Jul 19 17:51:52 I wouldn't remove it Jul 19 17:52:12 see heres my idea i have regex swift through google voice for the voice mail links in my app and have them show Jul 19 17:52:51 but the mediaplayer doesnt like the streaming link Jul 19 17:54:05 destinal: i moved it to a tmp dir Jul 19 17:54:13 i can still ssh in and replace it Jul 19 17:54:25 still dont explain why a getty wont start Jul 19 17:58:32 PuffTheMagic: what are you calling your event.d scripts? Jul 19 17:58:38 is the palm on called getty? Jul 19 17:58:51 i thinki got it Jul 19 17:58:54 or palm doesn't have a getty enabled Jul 19 17:58:56 script wasnt formed right Jul 19 17:59:02 i can start it from ssh Jul 19 17:59:07 and it starts in the emu Jul 19 17:59:11 but the script wasnt working Jul 19 17:59:15 okay Jul 19 17:59:53 this makes no sense Jul 19 18:00:24 its not auto starting my event.d file Jul 19 18:00:47 do you have the start on lines? Jul 19 18:00:53 nope Jul 19 18:00:54 ;) Jul 19 18:01:47 is there an upstart howto Jul 19 18:01:51 since i fail at upstart Jul 19 18:02:19 http://upstart.ubuntu.com/ Jul 19 18:05:48 yay that works Jul 19 18:06:47 why is ssh over wifi so damn shitty Jul 19 18:07:12 and why does novaterm not work properly with my keyboard Jul 19 18:13:32 PuffTheMagic: use usbnet :) Jul 19 18:13:45 ssh over that Jul 19 18:13:50 baaa Jul 19 18:13:55 i've already disabled powerd Jul 19 18:14:06 but usbnet has no latency issues Jul 19 18:14:09 i need to stop the power state switching Jul 19 18:14:23 wifi ssh for me is slow. usbnet very very fast Jul 19 18:14:38 i think the wifi card goes into power saving mode Jul 19 18:19:01 destinal_: can you send me that link again about netscape plugin events Jul 19 18:19:19 sure Jul 19 18:19:43 https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Plugins https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Gecko_Plugin_API_Reference/Scripting_plugins Jul 19 18:20:04 was it the scriptable events you're interested or some other? Jul 19 18:21:40 anybody interested: i have .net (C#) executables running on my device, talking to the dbus. Jul 19 18:21:51 using mono arm implementation Jul 19 18:25:25 Nice raeb, may want to write an article later on. A few might be interested. Jul 19 18:25:40 well... tarring up the entire filesystem now Jul 19 18:25:54 templarian: yeah, sounds like a plan Jul 19 18:25:56 once that is done it's time to head to the sprint service center Jul 19 18:26:02 raeb: just put it on the new wiki. Jul 19 18:26:35 sshfs is actually really awesome Jul 19 18:29:21 these plugins are so damn complicated looking Jul 19 18:29:52 destinal_: i was interested in how to send and recieve messages from the plugin Jul 19 18:31:09 PuffTheMagic: mrvc has added some proof of concept code, update your git Jul 19 18:31:24 oh shit Jul 19 18:31:32 phone dont charge when powerd isnt running Jul 19 18:31:34 :( Jul 19 18:31:43 doh Jul 19 18:31:52 thats not cool Jul 19 18:32:05 will have to make something to tweak the sleep timeout instead Jul 19 18:32:55 PuffTheMagic: there's already an article on that Jul 19 18:33:42 my phone while charging doesn't stop though, I can keep ssh sessions on it indefinitely Jul 19 18:33:49 I wonder why all these people are having problems Jul 19 18:34:30 or is it the display turning off that's a problem? Jul 19 18:34:42 PuffTheMagic: http://predev.wikidot.com/changing-the-turn-off-after-x-time-in-the-palm-pre Jul 19 18:35:25 yeah Jul 19 18:35:28 to manually configure it Jul 19 18:35:38 i want it to do that automatically when its charking Jul 19 18:35:40 charging Jul 19 18:36:14 PuffTheMagic: it's there on that page: luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.display/control/setProperty '{"onWhenConnected":true}' will keep it on from now on when it's charging. One time command. Jul 19 18:36:33 ohh Jul 19 18:36:37 i missed that part then Jul 19 18:37:08 actually Jul 19 18:37:13 i swear i ran that command too Jul 19 18:38:11 *shrugs* I always get uncomfortable when people start messing with powerd. :) Just seems like that's too easy to forget and have a dead phone (and hot pocket) in an hour Jul 19 18:39:04 i cant believe that is dont charge when powerd isnt running Jul 19 18:39:06 that is so odd Jul 19 18:40:43 well, it's a power daemon Jul 19 18:40:56 maybe it does the usb power negotiation Jul 19 18:41:09 or something Jul 19 18:43:32 well they definately have some funky setups Jul 19 18:43:39 there is not /sys/power/power_supply Jul 19 18:43:54 so they must be talking to the battery with i2c or gpio or something like that Jul 19 18:44:01 s/not/no Jul 19 18:44:17 i sent them a message about powerd Jul 19 18:44:25 asking if the code could be provided Jul 19 18:44:32 i wonder what they will say Jul 19 18:45:16 PuffTheMagic: infobot is awesome Jul 19 18:45:19 this is a tpyo Jul 19 18:45:23 s/typo/typo/ Jul 19 18:45:31 this is a tpyo Jul 19 18:45:37 s/tpyo/typo/ Jul 19 18:45:38 destinal_ meant: this is a typo Jul 19 18:46:32 s/not/no/ Jul 19 18:46:43 I think it needs to be the last thing you said though Jul 19 18:46:46 ahh Jul 19 18:46:52 thats still pretty cool though Jul 19 18:47:35 s/t/T/g Jul 19 18:47:35 destinal_ meant: I Think iT needs To be The lasT Thing you said Though Jul 19 18:48:24 where is the db where all these settings are stored Jul 19 18:48:28 that luna-send writes to Jul 19 18:48:38 PuffTheMagic: luna-send writes to nothing Jul 19 18:48:48 PuffTheMagic: luna-send sends a message to a service via dbus Jul 19 18:48:49 well its a dbus message right? Jul 19 18:49:00 yeah so something is saving it in a db or something Jul 19 18:49:03 right but there are lots of services Jul 19 18:49:08 so it depends on which one Jul 19 18:49:13 im just trying to figure out where onWhenConnected came from Jul 19 18:49:30 what's the namespace? Jul 19 18:49:46 com.palm.display/control Jul 19 18:50:22 dbus-util --list|grep com.palm.display Jul 19 18:50:57 so thats part of LunaSysMgr Jul 19 18:51:01 do we have the code for that? Jul 19 18:51:12 nope, Luna is closed source / black box / who knows Jul 19 18:51:29 so htf did he figure that one out? Jul 19 18:51:53 you can introspect dbus and enumerate methods Jul 19 18:52:21 or of course look at existing mojo code, they call the services all over the place Jul 19 18:52:54 destinal_: can you send me your lsmod again... so i can see what modules i am missing to get usbnet working Jul 19 18:52:58 i treid to get dbus introspection done in this .net project, but i fell asleep Jul 19 18:53:02 i am assuming there is a ppp link over usb or something Jul 19 18:53:09 http://predev.wikidot.com/introspecting-dbus Jul 19 18:53:23 for that one, I found maximumBrightness in the strings output for /usr/bin/LunaSysMgr and looked around it... saw onWhenConnected and figured I'd give it a shot. Surprisingly, it worked. :) Jul 19 18:53:27 yeah, that was lots of help yesterday Jul 19 18:53:38 drnull_: nice find Jul 19 18:57:27 rwhitby: can you tweak the ipkg-opt to show a dl progress bar or something Jul 19 18:58:06 hi Jul 19 19:00:42 A2NY: good afternoon Jul 19 19:05:24 lol Jul 19 19:05:26 lost my phone Jul 19 19:05:32 sudo rm -rf / Jul 19 19:05:37 destinal_: i am having a little trouble with that di.py program Jul 19 19:05:38 RIP Jul 19 19:06:21 A2NY: you ssh'd into it and didn't just find it with GPS/ Jul 19 19:06:22 ? Jul 19 19:06:37 yes Jul 19 19:06:46 i got the location Jul 19 19:06:52 and then i rm Jul 19 19:07:03 as opposed to going there? Jul 19 19:07:13 i was way too hammered last night Jul 19 19:07:21 ah Jul 19 19:07:24 we ended up at this chicks house i d/l putty real fast Jul 19 19:07:46 so i got the location and emailed it to myself Jul 19 19:07:54 well at least someone's less likely to steal a dead phone Jul 19 19:08:16 destinal_: def introspect_object(named_service, object_path): Jul 19 19:08:22 where does that chunk of code go Jul 19 19:08:34 PuffTheMagic: unfortunately I haven't tried introspecting yet Jul 19 19:08:43 who wrote that? Jul 19 19:08:45 so I'm not familiar with the python Jul 19 19:08:45 drnull: ? Jul 19 19:09:09 you should be able to check the revision history Jul 19 19:09:48 jblebrun Jul 19 19:10:06 jblebrun: ping Jul 19 19:12:17 PuffTheMagic: no idea about that stuff, I've not messed with the introspection Jul 19 19:18:06 hello Jul 19 19:28:55 4 Jul 19 19:29:02 hello Jul 19 19:37:32 hmm Jul 19 19:37:38 why cant i edit wiki pages Jul 19 19:37:54 is it really set up that only the owner write Jul 19 19:38:32 ahh i didnt "join" Jul 19 19:38:34 right Jul 19 19:38:41 well now I did Jul 19 19:38:50 * PuffTheMagic waits for moderator approval Jul 19 19:39:05 PuffTheMagic: ugh Jul 19 19:39:07 PuffTheMagic: don't do that way Jul 19 19:57:32 http://predev.wikidot.com/introspecting-dbus-v2 Jul 19 19:57:33 :D Jul 19 20:01:16 wikidot is sloooow sometimes Jul 19 20:01:29 PuffTheMagic: thats why we have the new wiki. Jul 19 20:01:43 where is it? Jul 19 20:01:43 All new pages should be put on the new wiki. Jul 19 20:02:01 http://webos-internals.org/ hehe. Jul 19 20:02:37 I'll go transfer this page over to the new wiki. Jul 19 20:03:37 Templarian: Rick__ was asking earlier for someone to help with some regex to convert the app list....do you know if he got it done or still needs help? Jul 19 20:03:55 Haven't talked to him today. Jul 19 20:04:22 It's not hard to just write it over by hand there are only a few apps in the list. Jul 19 20:05:13 sorry about that PuffTheMagic had to force it to get the source to move it to the new page. Jul 19 20:05:30 force what? Jul 19 20:06:24 oh a lock im sure Jul 19 20:06:44 all i get when i go to that new page is "It works!" Jul 19 20:07:09 http://www.webos-internals.org/ Jul 19 20:07:25 or wiki. instead of www. -- same page Jul 19 20:07:38 ahh... Jul 19 20:07:43 It requries the www, will look into that. Jul 19 20:07:43 someone needs to fix appache Jul 19 20:07:45 or dns Jul 19 20:08:10 just add a a-name for the host without any subdomain Jul 19 20:08:29 Templarian: how much of that did you transfer over Jul 19 20:08:34 i can do it my self now that I know of the new site Jul 19 20:08:40 since i am still working on it Jul 19 20:09:47 PuffTheMagic: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Introspecting_Dbus_V2 put it here. I'm going to redirect the other page. Jul 19 20:09:58 Let me know when you transfered it yourself. Jul 19 20:10:18 Then I'll put the redirect in. thanks. Jul 19 20:10:31 err... i didnt add anything new since you transfered Jul 19 20:10:34 so just add the redirect Jul 19 20:10:40 i will just add the new stuff in the new wiki Jul 19 20:10:54 mmk Jul 19 20:11:37 PuffTheMagic: is it best to put the whole source up there? usually we'll just link to some existing source if its already out there or add it to the gitorious repository if it's custom Jul 19 20:12:22 i guess it dont matter too much Jul 19 20:12:31 no need for svn this way Jul 19 20:12:36 cause there are no releases of it yet Jul 19 20:13:04 since it's small I guess it's ok Jul 19 20:13:58 is there a way to delete a wiki entry Jul 19 20:14:02 or can only admins do that Jul 19 20:14:11 since this is a new wiki i want to do this better Jul 19 20:14:47 or should I just move/rename it Jul 19 20:15:08 PuffTheMagic: what do you need done? Jul 19 20:15:25 well i was gonna delete my node, but i can jusut rename it i guess Jul 19 20:17:58 I can delete it later, rwhitby it suppose to be getting around to giving me the ability. Jul 19 20:19:28 no need Jul 19 20:23:53 think iway helped a few times Jul 19 20:24:04 sorry w/c Jul 19 20:37:46 rwhitby: destinal_: just wanted to correct a few things I said last night... http://webos.pastebin.com/m34598a3 works... if you have replaced openssl with an "always return true" version... I totally forgot I had done that. Second, the appinstaller is *not* happy with self-signed apps. Only palm signed ones, apparently. Crap. :( Jul 19 20:38:44 well I figured there was a reason they include a palm ca public key Jul 19 20:38:50 yeah, lol Jul 19 20:39:11 it's not a big deal really Jul 19 20:39:31 we can make our own installer service that's a simple wrapper around ipkg -o /var Jul 19 20:39:59 that would give us postinst also, (though with great power comes great responsibility) :) Jul 19 20:40:32 well, it kinda is. If appinstaller allowed self-signed installs, then you could install a homebrew app "store" via the sdk, which could then install any apps. All without the need to pull out novaterm. Jul 19 20:40:53 we still can do that Jul 19 20:41:10 and in fact we can do better Jul 19 20:41:22 we should make an installer installer that doesn't need the sdk Jul 19 20:41:35 As long as "rooting" required, no matter how easy it is, you won't see many people jumping on. Jul 19 20:41:46 there's no rooting Jul 19 20:41:50 rooting is a null word Jul 19 20:42:06 the sdk roots just as much as anything Jul 19 20:42:10 did you not see the quotes? Jul 19 20:42:18 right but if they have the sdk Jul 19 20:42:21 they're "rooting" Jul 19 20:42:32 just a program does what they need Jul 19 20:42:35 we can do the same Jul 19 20:42:38 no, they're not. The sdk won't allow org.webosinternals.services to be installed. Jul 19 20:42:59 but we can send commands to novacom to do it just like they send commands to novacom to do iot Jul 19 20:43:05 we're no better or worse than the sdk Jul 19 20:43:07 just parallel Jul 19 20:43:35 we don't want to make the sdk a dependency anyway Jul 19 20:43:38 No, not just like how the sdk does it. We would have to call wget and ipkg install through novaterm. Jul 19 20:43:40 most of our user base is not developers Jul 19 20:43:58 drnull_ that's not true Jul 19 20:44:03 there are get and put commands Jul 19 20:44:32 in novacom Jul 19 20:44:58 fine, but the point is, the sdk installs via appinstall or ipkg -o /var. I'm just saying that won't work for org.webosinternals.services. Jul 19 20:44:58 all I'm saying is we don't have to be any more invasive than the sdk and we don't want the sdk as a dependency Jul 19 20:45:35 having the sdk as a depencency is better than having the "acquiring ssh access to the pre" process as a requirement. (see, this is why I say "rooting", it's shorter) Jul 19 20:45:38 so there's a program you download to install the installer and run it, that's better for most users than using the sdk Jul 19 20:45:47 drnull_: right we don't do that Jul 19 20:45:56 we do currently Jul 19 20:45:57 ssh is stupid Jul 19 20:46:08 we'll have an installer that installs via novacom over usb Jul 19 20:46:44 then the process is: Jul 19 20:46:47 download app Jul 19 20:46:50 enable dev mode Jul 19 20:46:51 run Jul 19 20:46:56 aye, so I've heard. I'm just wondering in what private circles this development occurs. xorg said "soon" back right after 1.0.4 came out. Jul 19 20:47:29 drnull_: afaik the development has not occurred yet Jul 19 20:47:33 but it's clearly the way to go Jul 19 20:47:58 well, clearly is a bit narrow-minded. Jul 19 20:48:27 It would be nice to not have to rely on org.webosinternals.services, and instead use built-in services. Jul 19 20:48:36 no Jul 19 20:48:43 we don't rely on webosinternals.services Jul 19 20:48:48 that would be bad Jul 19 20:49:01 Some programs use the service though Jul 19 20:49:13 those are bad programs. :) Jul 19 20:49:14 we create our own installer service Jul 19 20:49:21 and install it via novacom Jul 19 20:49:35 :O PreGame's flashlight rules! Jul 19 20:49:35 you're missing the point. It would be nice to not have to rely on ANY non-built-in services. Jul 19 20:49:38 all of this in a gui totally transparent to the user Jul 19 20:50:44 drnull_: yes but I'm guessing that's not going to be possible without replacing palm's cert in which case we're already modifying the pre as much as installing a service would be Jul 19 20:51:17 right, but that's just a guess. The SDK installs apps without the key. Jul 19 20:51:45 sure but it has novacom Jul 19 20:52:07 I thought you were talking pure mojo Jul 19 20:52:15 I am Jul 19 20:52:27 ok here's the thing Jul 19 20:52:41 the user has to get the app onto the pre to use it Jul 19 20:52:57 why is the sdk a better way than a tool we provide? Jul 19 20:53:04 Palm has lost their mojo... Zing! Jul 19 20:53:59 Argh, again, I'm not arguing about how to get the tool onto the pre. I just thought it would be better to use "standard" services. Jul 19 20:54:06 instead of rolling our own Jul 19 20:54:24 (standard install services) Jul 19 20:54:41 drnull_:hmmm.. maybe we can if we can get our key accepted Jul 19 20:54:59 without invalidating palms of course Jul 19 20:55:47 you're right, though, modifying the keys is the same as installing our own service. Jul 19 20:56:12 yeah, and anything short of adding a key would be a security violation in palm's view I think and get fixed Jul 19 20:56:15 and if novacom has the ability to just put the right files into /etc and /usr then that's perfectly fine I guess Jul 19 20:56:35 ie if there was some bypass Jul 19 20:56:45 like email, understood. Jul 19 20:56:57 but yeah adding a key might be the cleanest Jul 19 20:57:05 because then we wouldn't have to bother with a service at all Jul 19 20:57:10 just a mojo app to use it Jul 19 20:57:24 to use the existing service Jul 19 20:57:27 adding a key to /etc/ssl/certs/PalmCACert.pem? Jul 19 20:57:59 hmm, can it contain more than one public key though? Jul 19 20:58:18 if so that might be easiest Jul 19 20:58:22 I hate key stuff, I always have to look it up when I need to do pki Jul 19 20:59:23 well, I mainly just wanted to correct the eronous info I posted yesterday, I need to take live in real life for a while. Jul 19 20:59:30 Thanks for the ideas Jul 19 21:01:09 drnull_: I'll play too and let you know, I want to see preware get off the ground from an on-phone installer perspective too Jul 19 21:04:21 Templarian: is there a mediawiki howto that explains how you put boxes side by side as you did on the main page Jul 19 21:07:38 Oh it's a template. Jul 19 21:08:28 PuffTheMagic: one sec, let me write a small how to. Jul 19 21:08:40 Puff http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template Jul 19 21:10:02 Rick__: it's not there, http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Template:Portal-two-columns Jul 19 21:10:18 ahhh Jul 19 21:10:24 but it does describe the idea of templates Jul 19 21:10:46 that could be more generic to set colors right? Jul 19 21:11:04 PuffTheMagic: no since developers have no sense of colours. Jul 19 21:11:23 * Rick__ resembles that remark Jul 19 21:11:37 That template is used throughout the site so don't actually edit it specifically. Jul 19 21:12:15 * Rick__ wishes he had enough regex to do a port of the old info to the new wiki... for the app list. It's regular enough in the source of the old info that I can _almost_ do a search and replace, but not _quite_ Jul 19 21:13:19 Yea, just edit it by hand shouldn't take two long. Jul 19 21:14:49 uh Jul 19 21:14:50 yeah Jul 19 21:14:51 ok Jul 19 21:14:56 :-) Jul 19 21:27:22 hi Jul 19 21:32:53 how do copy/paste from text in an email? Jul 19 21:33:13 You can't Jul 19 21:35:14 d03boy: you can only copy user inputtable text, unfortunately... Jul 19 21:35:17 they should fix that Jul 19 21:35:22 and get an onscreen keyboard Jul 19 21:37:23 seigex: how's it going? Jul 19 21:40:28 bored.. extremely bored Jul 19 21:40:34 been on vacation for the last week Jul 19 21:41:39 yeah i was suprised there was no OSK Jul 19 21:41:45 especiallyl for a palm Jul 19 21:42:09 wow. I clicked an ipk link in browser and it started opening like 30 windows Jul 19 21:45:02 Eguy: you have a chance to crack those images? Jul 19 21:45:17 i want pizza Jul 19 21:45:32 and wings Jul 19 21:45:37 where can i get pizza and wings..hmmm Jul 19 21:46:08 Not yet jcrawford Jul 19 21:46:18 ok ;) Jul 19 21:46:29 mmm wings Jul 19 21:47:29 bzhou * r10470 optware/trunk/make/transmission.mk: transmission: 1.72 -> 1.73 Jul 19 21:47:39 * Templarian just had fish... mmm. Jul 19 21:51:30 yeah mmm wings Jul 19 21:51:55 Where are you located? Jul 19 21:53:38 * jcrawford orders a sub Jul 19 21:55:26 Can someone edit the wiki here: http://predev.wikidot.com/installing-apps-without-rooting to say use /var/usr/palm/applications instead of /usr/palm/applications for ipk's? Jul 19 21:58:49 hmm i wonder if it is possible to modify the messenger app to make it play ringtones for certain contacts rather than the chime Jul 19 21:59:04 if i wanted to take on that task as a first project, do you guys think it is possible? Jul 19 21:59:27 Eguy: done. Jul 19 21:59:51 would involve rewriting the widget that is used etc. Jul 19 22:00:04 Eguy, you can edit it. Jul 19 22:00:14 someone send eguy the password for the wiki. Jul 19 22:00:27 But really that page is so dated now... Jul 19 22:00:36 it is. VERY VERY DATED. Jul 19 22:00:39 Probably won't even be converted over to the new one. Jul 19 22:00:50 it really needs to be completely just forwarded to a correct page. Jul 19 22:01:52 Lets make an article over on the wiki and redirect that. Jul 19 22:01:58 Thanks Jul 19 22:02:12 the -=- good page is here http://predev.wikidot.com/installing-apps-on-a-stock-pre-post-1-04-update Jul 19 22:02:21 I am sick of moving the apps everytime I install a ipk Jul 19 22:02:28 I'll go set a forward on the old page to the good page. Jul 19 22:02:38 Can't delete the apps if they are in usr/palm/applications Jul 19 22:02:45 nodnod Jul 19 22:02:56 but if you look at the good page, it's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THING. Jul 19 22:03:13 eguy, have you been to the NEW wiki yet? Jul 19 22:03:24 www.webos-internals.org/wiki/ Jul 19 22:03:27 Mp[e Jul 19 22:03:28 nope* Jul 19 22:03:41 Hey look at that! Jul 19 22:03:55 * jcrawford likes the current one better lol Jul 19 22:03:57 Finally mediawiki Jul 19 22:03:57 if you have a few minutes, it would be SO UTTERLY KIND if you could go to the new wiki and pick some page off the old wiki and move it to the new wiki..... Jul 19 22:04:04 jcrawford is wrong. :-) Jul 19 22:04:10 mediawiki is infinitely better. Jul 19 22:04:15 and then some more. Jul 19 22:04:15 j/k ;) Jul 19 22:04:20 wikidot sucks Jul 19 22:04:23 nodnod Jul 19 22:04:28 no templates. Jul 19 22:04:36 no namespaces Jul 19 22:04:53 same user/pass as old site? Jul 19 22:05:03 you will have to create a new username Jul 19 22:05:06 ah' Jul 19 22:05:09 sorry Jul 19 22:05:20 but wikidot doesn't GIVE us access to your old username/password Jul 19 22:05:22 again, sucks. Jul 19 22:05:34 It's all for the best though, wikidot is bad. Jul 19 22:05:54 Could not send confirmation mail. Check address for invalid characters. Jul 19 22:05:54 Mailer returned: 1 Jul 19 22:06:18 what address? pm me. Jul 19 22:06:32 jcrawford: it actually sent it Jul 19 22:06:40 ok Jul 19 22:06:45 I need to look into that .... Jul 19 22:06:48 hello again rwhitby late there eh? Jul 19 22:07:34 jcrawford: 7:30am, not too late yet. Jul 19 22:07:35 no, it's early morning for him Jul 19 22:07:36 tommorow Jul 19 22:09:22 oh hell Jul 19 22:09:30 i been awake since you went to bed at 12am haha Jul 19 22:09:35 ok so how do i add pages? Jul 19 22:09:49 n/m Jul 19 22:09:52 i see instructions Jul 19 22:12:12 what Pretris Jul 19 22:12:17 wth release that already lol Jul 19 22:12:26 jcrawford: I put a warning, that email confirm error is fake, it actually worked. Jul 19 22:12:39 :) Jul 19 22:13:18 have Patches been moved over yet? Jul 19 22:22:57 updownupdownleftrightleftrightbastart Jul 19 22:28:16 d03boy no Jul 19 22:28:26 upupdowndown.... Jul 19 22:28:46 Nope, it is rm -rf / Jul 19 22:28:51 jcrawford to add pages, you make a LINK on a page and save the page. Jul 19 22:29:22 So, you go to one of the portal pages and say [[Page_name|Page Name with spaces]] and then, when you save there will be a red link Jul 19 22:29:22 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Tutorials_webOS_Installing_An_Ipk Jul 19 22:29:27 Eguy: just ipkt -o /var Jul 19 22:29:34 click the red link, and it will open up an empty page for you to edit. Jul 19 22:29:35 :-) Jul 19 22:29:48 Eguy: ipkg -o /var install whatever.ipk Jul 19 22:30:03 then they end up in /var/usr and can be deleted through the gui Jul 19 22:30:07 yeah Jul 19 22:30:10 yeah Jul 19 22:30:28 ipkg-opt is for optware, ipkg is for palm and preware Jul 19 22:30:40 always use -o /var for ipkg Jul 19 22:30:53 But the average user should know that when installing or crating Jul 19 22:31:15 we can probably put the -o /var in the config file for ipkg Jul 19 22:31:35 wtf Jul 19 22:31:44 how is it that my pre says i dont have room to install an app Jul 19 22:31:47 its got 8 gig Jul 19 22:31:49 hehe broken toilet on the ISS again Jul 19 22:31:57 or we'll install a 'preware' script which stops people forgetting to use -o /var Jul 19 22:32:01 PuffTheMagic: different partition Jul 19 22:32:11 Templarian: I think we want to avoid every user installing the sdk -- the sdk is for developers, shouldn't be a prereq for all 3rd party app users Jul 19 22:32:16 so does that mean i can only have 1 app installed at a time? Jul 19 22:32:50 of course at the moment it's easier than doctor + tools that use its classes, so we need something else Jul 19 22:32:58 destinal_: yea true, I was just being lazy, till I copy over the tutorial from the old wiki. Jul 19 22:32:59 PuffTheMagic:I have seen that error before Jul 19 22:32:59 PuffTheMagic: you can symlink apps over to /media/internal Jul 19 22:33:17 trying to compile basicplugin with cross-compiler, but it complains about missing header files from X11 Jul 19 22:33:17 how much space is there in the apps folder? Jul 19 22:33:37 Zuchmir2: libx11-dev Jul 19 22:33:38 yeah but this is crazy.. i;ve installed like 2 apps from the app catelog Jul 19 22:33:42 and i am out of space now Jul 19 22:33:46 how does this happen Jul 19 22:33:49 My accuweather is an old version and if I try to update it through the app catalog it says out of space Jul 19 22:33:54 PuffTheMagic: did you install ajaxterm? Jul 19 22:34:08 lol yes... Jul 19 22:34:10 * PuffTheMagic removing now Jul 19 22:34:14 PuffTheMagic temp files? Jul 19 22:34:19 removed them Jul 19 22:34:20 +rwhitby: is that available for cross-compiler? Jul 19 22:34:22 ajaxterm is known to break stuff Jul 19 22:34:30 including thinking no free space Jul 19 22:34:36 ajaxterm _almost works_ Jul 19 22:34:38 oh great Jul 19 22:34:42 question: does anyone know the default password assigned when you create an unprivileged user account on the pre? Jul 19 22:34:50 Zuchmir2: are you using some set of instructions, or rolling your own? Jul 19 22:35:04 P@|MPR3 Jul 19 22:35:13 Zuchmir2: it's certainly available for the optware cross-compilation build infrastructure Jul 19 22:35:18 i cant remember where it installed anything either Jul 19 22:35:27 using instructions from http://predev.wikidot.com/optware-cross-compilation Jul 19 22:35:44 s/anything/ajaxterm Jul 19 22:36:07 will the pre crash if i rm -rf /tmp/* Jul 19 22:36:18 I don't think so Jul 19 22:36:25 *kaboom* Jul 19 22:37:15 don't see any mention there about X11 includes/libs Jul 19 22:37:49 Zuchmir2: check the wiki page on plugins Jul 19 22:38:13 Zuchmir2: basicplugin currently wants x11 includes but that's probably a relic and should be fixed Jul 19 22:38:31 destinal_: u know where ajaxterm installs all this crap so i can delete it and make my pre happy again? Jul 19 22:38:39 http://predev.wikidot.com/browser-plugins doesn't mention anything about cross-compiling Jul 19 22:39:20 Zuchmir2: right, I haven't gotten cross compilation working for it yet personally (I build it for the emulator at the moment) though rwhitby has. but the headers it lists are needed no matter what platform or toolchain Jul 19 22:39:31 Ensure you have required libraries This depends on your linux distro. On ubuntu, you will need build-essential, libglib2.0-dev, and libx11-dev: Jul 19 22:39:33 ^^ Jul 19 22:39:56 i promise i will have a toolchain built this week that you all can install' Jul 19 22:40:07 Does tmp/logs get emptied on a reboot? Jul 19 22:40:39 it's a tmpfs so yeah Jul 19 22:40:40 rm -rf /tmp/* freezes up luna :D Jul 19 22:40:44 virtual memory Jul 19 22:40:52 PuffTheMagic: just initctl stop / start Jul 19 22:40:55 do i get rid of: -DMOZ_X11=1 Jul 19 22:41:14 PuffTheMagic: good to know though lol Jul 19 22:41:21 PuffTheMagic du -ah | sort -n Jul 19 22:41:24 haha Jul 19 22:41:40 glib.h: No such file or directory Jul 19 22:41:51 (04:39:35 PM) destinal_: Ensure you have required libraries This depends on your linux distro. On ubuntu, you will need build-essential, libglib2.0-dev, and libx11-dev: Jul 19 22:41:57 Zuchmir2: libglib2.0-dev Jul 19 22:42:43 Zuchmir2: working now? Jul 19 22:43:02 damn Jul 19 22:43:08 it still says i have no room Jul 19 22:43:10 wtf happened Jul 19 22:43:36 ahahaha it is a good thing NASA does not outsource tech support Jul 19 22:43:50 trying cross-compiling... i think i got it now, wil try... Jul 19 22:45:02 do i have to do a reset/erase to fix this? Jul 19 22:45:20 What are you trying to install? Jul 19 22:45:52 the fandango app Jul 19 22:46:40 Isn't there a direct link to the app catalog ipk's somewhere? Jul 19 22:46:52 u missed the problem Jul 19 22:47:03 it says i have no free mem Jul 19 22:47:07 to install anything Jul 19 22:47:24 You can't wget something and use ipkg -o /var install? Jul 19 22:47:37 i am using the app catalog Jul 19 22:47:43 puff, maybe your HD is in read-only mode because its dead Jul 19 22:47:44 i should not have this issue Jul 19 22:48:04 I have the issue with accuweather but the rest are fine Jul 19 22:48:18 how much music do you have installed? Jul 19 22:48:20 pics? Jul 19 22:48:22 nothing Jul 19 22:48:23 nothing Jul 19 22:48:25 then again these are probably solid state drives eh? Jul 19 22:48:30 only apps? Jul 19 22:48:32 and not many Jul 19 22:48:33 heh Jul 19 22:48:33 yes Jul 19 22:48:50 maybe you bought the 1megabyte version Jul 19 22:48:50 hehe Jul 19 22:48:58 not funny Jul 19 22:49:00 Prenano Jul 19 22:49:08 Pruffle Jul 19 22:49:20 cant you run webos doctor to reset the device? Jul 19 22:49:25 No screen, just a card view button Jul 19 22:50:19 tont i am sure i can... that is not the first thing i want to do though Jul 19 22:50:41 its just linux Jul 19 22:50:47 there must be a db file that is too big Jul 19 22:50:49 or something Jul 19 22:50:49 idk Jul 19 22:50:56 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/193005-low-disk-file-system-work-around.html Jul 19 22:51:01 did you check that out? Jul 19 22:51:33 i dont need a work around Jul 19 22:51:39 cause i essentially have no apps installed Jul 19 22:51:46 and i am not installing a homebrew app either Jul 19 22:54:12 anyone know who did the download from browser patch? Jul 19 22:54:19 PuffTheMagic do you already have fandango Jul 19 22:54:31 because many are reporting problem with upgrades saying out of memory. Jul 19 22:54:34 would be nice to have the m4v files go to /ringtones automatically Jul 19 22:54:46 you might need to uninstall fandango if you already have it. Jul 19 22:54:51 Ditto accuweather. Jul 19 22:54:54 i thought i had fandango Jul 19 22:54:59 but i dont see it no more Jul 19 22:55:03 which is why i was reinstalling Jul 19 22:55:08 but i just did a full erase Jul 19 22:55:13 so oh well Jul 19 22:55:29 check /var/usr/palm/applications and see if there's a dir for fandango in there. Jul 19 22:55:35 too late Jul 19 22:55:58 it's ajaxterm Jul 19 22:56:03 not sure what it does but it breaks stuff Jul 19 22:56:53 there should be a big fat warning about that on the page Jul 19 22:57:06 PuffTheMagic: are you using the optware-bootstrap.sh script to reinstall? Jul 19 22:57:16 reinstall what? Jul 19 22:57:26 reinstall dropbear Jul 19 22:57:36 i havent thought that far ahead yet Jul 19 22:58:08 we're in final testing of that script, and want 3 people to verify it before we roll it out as the standard procedure replacing about 20 manual steps Jul 19 22:58:33 what exactly is this full erase Jul 19 22:58:41 cause it seems all my hacks are still there Jul 19 22:59:46 and my installed apps are there Jul 19 22:59:48 wtf Jul 19 22:59:56 all it did was erase my 4 photos it seems Jul 19 23:00:45 and i still have this f'n mem error Jul 19 23:00:57 are there diskdoctor howto on the wiki? Jul 19 23:06:31 PuffTheMagic: yep Jul 19 23:10:44 PuffTheMagic: use the webos doctor Jul 19 23:10:56 i am Jul 19 23:11:00 this blows though Jul 19 23:11:03 but a good thing Jul 19 23:11:18 rwhitby: is there git in optware? Jul 19 23:11:19 you should be able to just download the jar and run it in linux Jul 19 23:12:31 so full erase from palm's web interface just seems to clean the pre of user data Jul 19 23:12:33 ? Jul 19 23:13:56 yeah Jul 19 23:13:58 its useless Jul 19 23:14:16 anyone know about git in optware Jul 19 23:14:58 yep Jul 19 23:15:14 ipkg-opt install git Jul 19 23:16:55 PuffTheMagic: here is what optware has: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Optware/Packages Jul 19 23:18:42 so how about this Jul 19 23:18:53 well full erase is useful for people who don't hack their phone, it's just another example of best practices we should follow with our apps (ie don't write outside the areas that full erase will clear) Jul 19 23:19:31 mkdir /opt/var; mv -R /var/* /opt/var; mount -o bind /opt/var /var Jul 19 23:19:38 err Jul 19 23:19:52 i mean /media/internal Jul 19 23:19:56 or what ever it is Jul 19 23:22:29 ouch Jul 19 23:23:01 oh is /opt a seperate partition on your phone? Jul 19 23:23:11 no i dont mean /opt Jul 19 23:23:17 i meant /media/internal Jul 19 23:23:18 not /media/internal Jul 19 23:23:20 it's vfat Jul 19 23:23:27 ewwww Jul 19 23:23:35 cant we reformat it Jul 19 23:23:45 if we dont plan on mounting it on a windows box :D Jul 19 23:23:58 or partition it at least Jul 19 23:24:06 I think that negatively impacts usb mass storage mode Jul 19 23:24:10 i am not gonna have 7 gig of pics or mp3 on this Jul 19 23:24:15 (which is the reason it's vfat i believe) Jul 19 23:24:21 oh Jul 19 23:24:32 i am willing to bet vfat is used only for windows compat Jul 19 23:24:35 right, there's an example of changing partition sizes on the wiki Jul 19 23:24:36 since windows cant mount ext3 Jul 19 23:24:39 or anything special Jul 19 23:24:47 so you can make a dedicated 1g /opt Jul 19 23:24:50 or whatever Jul 19 23:26:48 i hope i can just mkfs.ext3 the whole damn thing Jul 19 23:26:57 hi Jul 19 23:27:14 the one time I tried reformatting I screwed up my wallpapers but I don't remember why Jul 19 23:27:39 destinal.. i made /media/internal ext3 but even with the ext viewer in windows couldn't read it.. still thought it was vfat Jul 19 23:27:48 think it has to do with the logical volume setup Jul 19 23:27:59 can't specify partition types Jul 19 23:28:05 yeah Jul 19 23:28:12 but i could mount it in linux Jul 19 23:28:15 u need to fdisk it Jul 19 23:28:21 and change partition type Jul 19 23:28:31 can't fdisk lvm's from what i understand Jul 19 23:28:41 and no fdisk for the pre.. couldn't find the source to compile Jul 19 23:28:48 seig3x: you can ipkg-opt install Jul 19 23:28:52 I've run fdisk on the pre Jul 19 23:28:53 is it in there now? Jul 19 23:28:59 it always has been Jul 19 23:29:10 why would novaproxy not find your pre after unabling usbnet? Jul 19 23:29:31 i still don't think you can fdisk logical volumes.. which is how /media/internal's set up Jul 19 23:29:35 but i could be wrong Jul 19 23:29:54 ubuntu$ dpkg -S `type -path fdisk` Jul 19 23:29:54 util-linux: /sbin/fdisk Jul 19 23:29:59 i will find a way Jul 19 23:30:04 pre# ipkg-opt install util-linux Jul 19 23:35:06 ok Jul 19 23:35:13 http://www.codeproject.com/KB/IP/Terminal_Control_Project.aspx Jul 19 23:36:11 jcrawford: I assembled the download from browser mod and uploaded it to gitorious, but other people are responsible for it, why? Jul 19 23:36:31 raeb: I'm more thinking anyterm and extending our plugin to talk to it Jul 19 23:36:46 oic Jul 19 23:37:03 ahh, there's the why right after you asked. Well, you can't control the download location, to my knowledge. Jul 19 23:37:18 destinal: our plugin cant do shit yet graphics wise Jul 19 23:37:22 and once we have graphics Jul 19 23:37:22 well extending the plugin side to contain the backend and extending the mojo to include the js side Jul 19 23:37:26 we can just port xterm Jul 19 23:37:42 PuffTheMagic: have you checked out the plugin today? Jul 19 23:37:47 no Jul 19 23:38:02 PuffTheMagic: mrvc added putting dots on the screen by touch Jul 19 23:38:04 i heard something about events Jul 19 23:38:19 dots on the screen Jul 19 23:38:21 revolutionary Jul 19 23:38:22 and it's stable, doesn't segfault anymore Jul 19 23:38:38 im pretty sure the segfault was caused by writing to the buffer Jul 19 23:38:40 we don't have piranha yet but we have two way js to plugin communication Jul 19 23:38:42 instead of using the pgcontext Jul 19 23:38:55 he's writing to the buffer still Jul 19 23:39:01 just with the proper bounds Jul 19 23:39:22 ok Jul 19 23:39:25 I'm not holding my breath on piranha, we can do this raw if we have to Jul 19 23:39:35 that would be a pain Jul 19 23:39:42 PuffTheMagic: anyway, why graphics? Jul 19 23:39:49 we can just use a javascript terminal Jul 19 23:39:56 destinal: so we can do it all in C++ Jul 19 23:40:06 well ok if u want to do the js part Jul 19 23:40:10 i will port xterm Jul 19 23:40:11 or something Jul 19 23:40:18 its not that hard Jul 19 23:40:26 there exists a JS vt100 terminal that we can use. Jul 19 23:40:31 anyterm has a vt100 -> html translation library Jul 19 23:40:33 Rick__: anyterm Jul 19 23:40:43 yeah but it relys on a webserver dont it Jul 19 23:40:48 I thought anyterm -> evil. Jul 19 23:40:53 it relies on a back end service Jul 19 23:40:57 yeah Jul 19 23:40:59 which we can port to being a plugin Jul 19 23:41:13 the code is there Jul 19 23:41:26 porting that to a plugin Jul 19 23:41:34 is just as much work as porting xterm Jul 19 23:41:45 esp since we need to put it into mojo format Jul 19 23:41:48 PuffTheMagic: at least I know what I'm doing there Jul 19 23:41:52 no need for the xtra layer Jul 19 23:42:28 PuffTheMagic: I have no idea what to do to make my own graphics lib or port one and piranha is still missing a lot of headers Jul 19 23:42:37 right Jul 19 23:42:39 if you can figure that part out I'll help, but I don't want to sit around Jul 19 23:42:45 but still Jul 19 23:42:55 i can port xterm to a plugin Jul 19 23:43:00 and expose the events Jul 19 23:43:06 in the plugin Jul 19 23:43:19 hmm Jul 19 23:43:22 I see Jul 19 23:43:29 there is no reason we need a webserver layer in there Jul 19 23:43:34 after i enabled usbnet novaproxy doesn't find my pre anymore. Does anyone know why? Jul 19 23:43:37 I wasn't saying web server Jul 19 23:43:53 well when i looked at anyterm it needed a webserver Jul 19 23:44:18 it's probably very simple code and easy to change that Jul 19 23:44:37 but heavier... a little more work and a nice clean term would be better Jul 19 23:44:50 xterm needs stuff stripped out too Jul 19 23:44:55 I don't see how they're different that way Jul 19 23:44:56 well right Jul 19 23:45:29 mojo / service architecture would provide a nice separation between code & presentation Jul 19 23:46:27 actually Jul 19 23:46:33 we dont even need a plugin Jul 19 23:46:34 raeb: a service would work too, depending. there's still the security risk though, but I guess if we make the back end stuff prompt for authentication.. Jul 19 23:46:36 we can just use dbus Jul 19 23:46:37 :D Jul 19 23:46:41 right Jul 19 23:46:42 since mojo can talk to dbus directly Jul 19 23:46:50 this is going to be cake Jul 19 23:46:53 we need to make sure that we prompt for auth tho Jul 19 23:46:56 if we just use dbus and skip the plugin Jul 19 23:47:01 well a plugin could provide the service, too Jul 19 23:47:13 hmmmm Jul 19 23:47:15 raeb: dbus may be easier Jul 19 23:47:18 perhaps Jul 19 23:47:20 dbus ftw! Jul 19 23:47:23 only question is latency on each approach Jul 19 23:47:23 hehe Jul 19 23:47:26 just talk to dbus via js Jul 19 23:47:32 dbus is quick enough Jul 19 23:47:38 yeah, dbus is fine, methinks Jul 19 23:47:41 to execute commands and what not Jul 19 23:47:56 its not like we are running ncurses yet Jul 19 23:48:01 PuffTheMagic: we could still use anyterm and modify it to use dbus as a transport instead of xmlhttprequest, mainly I want to get the terminal emulation code right Jul 19 23:48:03 or directfb apps in a console Jul 19 23:48:04 and I *want* ncurses :) Jul 19 23:48:39 we should be able to embed direcfbterm into a plugin Jul 19 23:49:04 well here's the thing IMO Jul 19 23:49:12 palm calls their plugins "adapters" Jul 19 23:50:17 so yeah the idea being a thin layer around whatever would write directly normally, minimal modifications. at least, so I'm guessing Jul 19 23:50:18 looks like this should be pretty cake... in the front end (html / ajax bit) there is only 2 places it communicates with the server. it should be easy to switch these out for dbus calls Jul 19 23:50:38 raeb: looking at the dbus code now? Jul 19 23:50:41 * destinal_ snags. Jul 19 23:50:42 anyterm Jul 19 23:50:44 err anyterm Jul 19 23:50:45 yeah Jul 19 23:50:46 yeh Jul 19 23:50:53 really small Jul 19 23:50:59 like 120k source package Jul 19 23:51:20 front end or back end? Jul 19 23:51:25 both Jul 19 23:51:28 nice Jul 19 23:52:08 devel branch? stable is really old Jul 19 23:52:24 yeah , 2-6 Jul 19 23:52:28 178k Jul 19 23:53:02 why 1.1.26 and not 1.1.29? Jul 19 23:53:08 eh? Jul 19 23:53:12 2009-02-06 Jul 19 23:53:17 oh Jul 19 23:53:22 yeah 1129 Jul 19 23:54:24 quick question... how do i make dropbear allow root ssh Jul 19 23:55:11 PuffTheMagic: make yourself a ssh key and copy it to ~root/.ssh/authorized_keys Jul 19 23:55:36 PuffTheMagic: or remove the -g from optware-dropbear's event.d script if you want to live dangerously and allow password based Jul 19 23:55:51 ok Jul 19 23:55:56 well i will install the key antwhere Jul 19 23:56:06 but i want to allow the case where I am not at my lappy Jul 19 23:56:16 i cant really see anyone trying to hack my phone Jul 19 23:56:21 and if they do Jul 19 23:56:26 all th epower to them Jul 19 23:56:26 well, good passwords ftw Jul 19 23:56:41 and hope no keyloggers from the phone hackers, lol Jul 19 23:56:58 heh Jul 19 23:57:19 allow password connect on usbnet only Jul 19 23:57:28 force wifi/ppp to use keys Jul 19 23:57:34 i dont care about security ever Jul 19 23:57:47 im not afraid of hackers ;) Jul 19 23:57:57 rofl almost sounds like an invitation Jul 19 23:58:04 ok, so, raeb, server side there's all kinds of tiny .cc and .hh files Jul 19 23:58:05 bring it Jul 19 23:58:10 lol Jul 19 23:58:15 :D Jul 19 23:58:18 destinal_: yup, its a mess Jul 19 23:58:21 but thats ok Jul 19 23:58:22 people are afraid of linux Jul 19 23:58:38 running linux is best security you can have :D Jul 19 23:58:46 with out even doing anything special Jul 19 23:58:47 ;) Jul 20 00:00:11 are you guys 100% dead set on the layout of the new wiki home page Jul 20 00:00:12 it seems to cluttered and unorganized Jul 20 00:00:17 no offense to anyone Jul 20 00:00:52 later tonight i might start a main_page_beta Jul 20 00:01:11 that someone can move to main_page later if they like it Jul 20 00:02:48 destinal_: did you mean remove the -F from dropbear event.d file? Jul 20 00:02:49 PuffTheMagic: sure, go for it Jul 20 00:02:50 i see no -g Jul 20 00:02:56 optware-dropbear Jul 20 00:03:07 optware is the paranoid one, palm wasn't. :) Jul 20 00:03:16 ooops Jul 20 00:03:20 wait Jul 20 00:03:39 yeah ipkg-opt install dropbear Jul 20 00:03:40 that one Jul 20 00:03:59 eah that gives you an /etc/event.d/optware-dropbear Jul 20 00:04:01 nm Jul 20 00:04:06 i see what u are saying Jul 20 00:04:13 palm has another one lying around I think Jul 20 00:04:20 * PuffTheMagic cant keep all this shit straight Jul 20 00:04:40 same one used in emulator, they DO ship dropbear there at least Jul 20 00:08:06 is someone hosting webos-internals.org on their personal server Jul 20 00:08:10 or is it shared hosting Jul 20 00:09:18 its running on a laptop in the middle of the nevada desert connected to a 4400 baud modem Jul 20 00:09:53 PuffTheMagic: enterprise class server at OSUOSL Jul 20 00:09:59 PuffTheMagic: same rack as master.kernel.org Jul 20 00:10:16 hey , was i correct in my assumption that you can't put scripts includes in a scene file? Jul 20 00:10:21 scene.html Jul 20 00:15:13 rwhitby: so can we set up git server on that instead of gitorious Jul 20 00:15:19 and run regular gitweb Jul 20 00:16:07 PuffTheMagic: we could, but then someone would need to administer accounts on that Jul 20 00:16:30 is there something wrong with gitorious? Jul 20 00:16:34 rwhitby: are you really gonna be adding everyone and their brother to write access Jul 20 00:16:44 rwhitby: i am not a fan of the interface Jul 20 00:16:51 PuffTheMagic: anyone who wants to contribute, yes. Jul 20 00:16:53 * PuffTheMagic prefers gitweb Jul 20 00:17:49 you can create diffs right from gitweb Jul 20 00:17:52 its beautiful Jul 20 00:18:27 PuffTheMagic: not saying "no", just "too busy right now to transition too many things at once" Jul 20 00:18:36 no rush Jul 20 00:18:40 i was just throwing it out there Jul 20 00:18:43 raeb: I have heard that you can't put js directly into a scene, yeah Jul 20 00:18:47 i too have too many things on my plate Jul 20 00:18:49 yeah, it's git, so anyone can master :-) Jul 20 00:18:52 I could be wrong though Jul 20 00:19:05 raeb you can not put js in the html file for a scene Jul 20 00:19:06 http://tinypic.com/r/2qdztpi/3 Jul 20 00:19:16 yeah i figured Jul 20 00:19:16 You have to put the js in the scene's assistant.js Jul 20 00:19:22 i just put it all in the assistant Jul 20 00:19:37 but you CAN just stuff whatever js you had in the html into the assistant, and it gets included with an automatic "include." Jul 20 00:19:42 yep, that's what you do Jul 20 00:19:52 PuffTheMagic: I chose gitorious over github (as far as hosted solutions go) so that we had the option of taking the gitorious code and hosting it ourselves later. that could easily be some other interface if that's what the community prefers. Jul 20 00:20:41 rwhitby: oh because their backend is open source and published Jul 20 00:20:43 I see Jul 20 00:20:49 * rwhitby just uses git cli, so doesn't really care what the web interface looks like, but does care about people being able to create their own accounts Jul 20 00:20:55 destinal_: yep, for that reason. Jul 20 00:21:43 PuffTheMagic: I'm a big fan of low barriers to entry. Everytime someone has to ask for an account for something, you risk loosing a contributor cause it's just too hard. Jul 20 00:21:47 it's fine for me, mainly web features I use are managing groups etc and that works just fine Jul 20 00:21:52 and uploaing keys, etc Jul 20 00:22:24 (one reason why we moved from wikidot.com to a hosted mediawiki - now we don't need a password for editing but can still manage spam) Jul 20 00:22:50 well posting code on a wiki is fine... i would be a little hesitant about blindly giving someone push access to a git repo though Jul 20 00:23:08 i runa collaborative kernel patchset Jul 20 00:23:14 via git for a few years now Jul 20 00:23:25 raeb: is anyterm straight C? Jul 20 00:23:28 not c++ Jul 20 00:23:32 yeah Jul 20 00:23:35 its not too hard to add an ssh key when someone i trust needs push access Jul 20 00:23:49 but i def wouldnt give it to everyone who has asked Jul 20 00:23:55 but thats just me Jul 20 00:24:10 PuffTheMagic: nice thing about version control. we can always back out bad commits Jul 20 00:24:36 and giving a little more power than needed rather than a little less means more people can help Jul 20 00:24:56 the wiki is open to everyone to post ;) Jul 20 00:25:05 they should prove them selves there Jul 20 00:25:11 but im not running this Jul 20 00:25:14 so i will shut up Jul 20 00:25:59 Yes, please do Jul 20 00:26:04 :p just kidding Jul 20 00:26:11 Eguy: jerk Jul 20 00:26:18 :D Jul 20 00:26:25 :P Jul 20 00:26:32 I will take a look at the wiki when I have more time Jul 20 00:26:48 I've been summoned to court this week! yay! Jul 20 00:27:04 Eguy: jury duty? Jul 20 00:27:10 Yes sir Jul 20 00:27:16 grand jury or regular? Jul 20 00:27:21 Regular Jul 20 00:27:27 thats not bad Jul 20 00:27:34 PuffTheMagic: FWIW I haven't had anyone ask that hadn't proven themselves as it were Jul 20 00:27:34 rwhitby: Say your post for the new wiki location. I'm willing to help. Jul 20 00:27:38 Probably be told that I am not needed like always Jul 20 00:28:02 bclancy visit the old wiki and there's now LOTS of links to the new wiki. Jul 20 00:28:03 :-) Jul 20 00:28:06 destinal_: ok, so theres more to change Jul 20 00:28:15 and may be worth re-implementing some of the front end to anyterm Jul 20 00:28:16 and the new wiki has a list of the pages needing conversion. Jul 20 00:28:23 destinal_: i am just thinking about back to my ipodlinux days when people would spam the website constantly Jul 20 00:28:25 its attaching evvents to objects that dont exist, etc Jul 20 00:28:31 and i can just see someone putting adds in commit messages and shit Jul 20 00:28:37 PuffTheMagic: it's a fine balance. Jul 20 00:28:39 raeb: why / how? Jul 20 00:28:45 PuffTheMagic: please don't shut up :-) Jul 20 00:28:48 PuffTheMagic easy to dis-allow them then. Jul 20 00:28:51 and turn them off Jul 20 00:29:02 im thinking things like Jul 20 00:29:03 document.onkeypress=keypress; Jul 20 00:29:06 aren't valid.... Jul 20 00:29:11 Rick: I guess rhwitby is not on right now. I was volunteering to help with moving stuff over or helping to test/review pages/procedures. Jul 20 00:29:20 He is on Jul 20 00:29:20 bclancy: talk to Rick__ and Templarian Jul 20 00:29:26 bclancy -- he's here. Jul 20 00:29:35 but Templarian and I have been hacking at the wiki Jul 20 00:29:37 ~seen rwhitby Jul 20 00:29:38 rwhitby is currently on #webos-internals (3d 16m 1s) #nslu2-linux (3d 16m 1s). Has said a total of 495 messages. Is idling for 2s, last said: '~seen rwhitby'. Jul 20 00:29:40 raeb: ah, we need to change those, check classic or the latest helloplugin Jul 20 00:29:43 and BY GOLLY we want to have you help Jul 20 00:30:00 this creates all the html using javascript Jul 20 00:30:03 bclancy: i would wait a day or so to start moving shit over Jul 20 00:30:06 only has a div in html Jul 20 00:30:17 infobot you bastard Jul 20 00:30:19 cause tonight when i dont feel like sleeping i am going to make a nicer mainpage Jul 20 00:30:20 bclancy -- you might start here... http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Converting-pages Jul 20 00:30:23 ha! try and talk now Jul 20 00:30:31 raeb: that's how we had been doing things with the plugin too coincidentally Jul 20 00:30:47 just finding the div object and replacing it Jul 20 00:30:55 yeah Jul 20 00:30:59 however Jul 20 00:31:03 you're only creating 1 element Jul 20 00:31:07 this is creating a gazillion Jul 20 00:31:16 * rwhitby is glad there are at least 3 people who reckon they can make the best main page :-) Jul 20 00:31:34 * Rick__ is glad that at least one of them was right. Jul 20 00:31:47 Rick__: at least one of them always is Jul 20 00:31:50 Rick__: thanks for the link - looking at it now Jul 20 00:31:51 :) Jul 20 00:31:53 LOL Jul 20 00:32:10 i just want all the text editor based hacks/mods to be on one page Jul 20 00:32:12 with a TOC Jul 20 00:32:19 that is easy to find Jul 20 00:32:29 PuffTheMagic: sounds good to me Jul 20 00:32:39 and same with complete new homebrews Jul 20 00:32:39 I'd like to see them all as patches in the repo ... Jul 20 00:32:41 and compiled apps Jul 20 00:32:51 CamelCase, for instance, "Tutorial_Linux_Getting_Started" Jul 20 00:32:55 thats not camel case..... Jul 20 00:32:59 thisIsCamelCase Jul 20 00:33:06 ThisIsTitleCase Jul 20 00:33:16 just sayin Jul 20 00:33:35 raeb you're right. Jul 20 00:33:43 that's been edited several times, and it's still wrong. Jul 20 00:33:48 lol Jul 20 00:33:50 which is the result of editing wikis at 0200 Jul 20 00:34:04 but, since it's a wiki (hint hint) you could FIX IT. Jul 20 00:34:08 rofl Jul 20 00:34:30 Whats wrong with "Tutorial_Linux_Getting_Started"? Jul 20 00:34:37 * PuffTheMagic is gonna whip up some ebuilds for pre sdk and nova* shit Jul 20 00:34:40 mediawiki allows either camelCase or Titles_with_underscores but does NOT allow page-names-with-spaces-in-them. :-) Jul 20 00:34:48 and start my pre overlay Jul 20 00:34:58 for all the gentoo addicts Jul 20 00:34:58 Templarian -- nothing is wrong with that. Jul 20 00:35:03 the PAGE is wrong. Jul 20 00:35:24 oh yea, the content is probably missing for one lol. Jul 20 00:35:27 which page? Jul 20 00:35:54 ok, I fixed it. Jul 20 00:36:23 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Converting-pages Jul 20 00:36:24 underscores don't offend me Jul 20 00:36:27 lol nice Jul 20 00:36:28 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Converting-pages Jul 20 00:36:59 There's a song title in there somewhere raeb Jul 20 00:37:12 what do you guys think about the idea of breaking out "the actual process" for enabling dev mode to another page for enabling dev mode? Jul 20 00:37:12 Yea, I edited that this morning and have been changing the titles to match it throughout the day got most. Jul 20 00:37:28 lawl Jul 20 00:37:35 sounds like a country song Jul 20 00:38:20 destinal_: link to the page your talking about. Jul 20 00:38:59 nodnod raeb. Jul 20 00:39:11 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Using-novaproxy Jul 20 00:39:15 about that nick... are you saying your _not_ ursine? Jul 20 00:39:25 this page should be about using novaproxy, not about enabling dev mode and then using novaproxy no? Jul 20 00:39:36 enable dev mode is enable dev mode for all platforms and in any situation Jul 20 00:40:19 destinal_ it's ok to HAVE a page about that, but the procedure here should be complete. Jul 20 00:40:20 I think Jul 20 00:40:34 over-splitting is as bad as over-lumping Jul 20 00:40:35 I'd just put enable dev mode in this procedure Jul 20 00:40:37 and a link Jul 20 00:40:54 only one place to edit should it ever change Jul 20 00:41:00 it would be nice to have a page (and a link) that explains what dev mode actually _does_ Jul 20 00:41:07 which does NOT belong here. Jul 20 00:41:44 I think its redundant here and in every gaining access method Jul 20 00:43:04 and there are other, better methods using the sdk, and to come, which also need it. too much copy and paste is worse than having to click a link Jul 20 00:43:31 once place for each piece of information Jul 20 00:44:15 ok ok... rolling over. Jul 20 00:44:17 go for it. Jul 20 00:44:34 that's part of why I was waiting to port the others.... Jul 20 00:44:45 :) it made sense back when there was one or to Jul 20 00:44:46 two Jul 20 00:44:57 anyone know hte opt packages source to use for the pre emulator? Jul 20 00:45:20 Looking for people's opinion on whether my old laptop (Panasonic Toughbook CF-50, 1600 MHz Pentium M, 768 MB RAM (upgradable to 1.28 GB) will be enough to run the public SDK emulator. It has been extremely slow with 768 MB RAM so I ordered a stick to upgrade to 1.28 GB max. Jul 20 00:45:55 yes, as long as you're not in a hurry. Jul 20 00:45:58 bclancy: run XP or ubuntu on it and it'll be just fine Jul 20 00:45:59 Perhaps the above is better as a #webos question. Do you think they'll give any opinions over there? Jul 20 00:46:10 same people mostly Jul 20 00:46:21 bclancy: put ubuntu on it... it will run fine Jul 20 00:46:30 PuffTheMagic your nick owns Jul 20 00:46:31 lol Jul 20 00:46:32 tharris-: i686g25 Jul 20 00:46:38 I -would- upgrade the ram, but I agree with the others. Running Ubunto (or a light xp) you'll be fine. Jul 20 00:46:39 ty Jul 20 00:46:51 destinal_: PuffTheMagic: I was thinking the same thing. I'll look into how well it runs on my h/w. thx for the suggestioin. Jul 20 00:46:54 if primarily sdk I'd say ubuntu, it makes a lot of things easier Jul 20 00:46:59 tharris-: our current optware-bootstrap.sh script should work on the emulator too - please test it Jul 20 00:47:19 for instance, install novacom and just run novaterm and you're in Jul 20 00:47:30 no fiddling with novacom proxy's and python etc Jul 20 00:47:42 amen Jul 20 00:48:08 ok. Can you write that up so that it's SIMPLE. Jul 20 00:48:29 and I'll agree that we use THAT instead of novaproxy Jul 20 00:48:32 Rick__: yeah I've been meaning to today and keep getting distracted. :) Jul 20 00:48:35 Novaterm is like _way_ better. Jul 20 00:48:51 aamof, I'm tempted to dr my pre and start over.... Jul 20 00:49:35 we get that page (which will have to deal with 32 and 64 bit windows) and we can redirect ALL THE OTHER WINDOWS ROOTING PAGES to that one page. Jul 20 00:49:37 period. Jul 20 00:49:59 * Rick__ -- food Jul 20 00:50:43 novaterm sucks Jul 20 00:50:50 i cant use nano in novaterm Jul 20 00:51:01 it does not send the right keycode for return Jul 20 00:51:07 it send a line return Jul 20 00:51:10 but i cant save a file Jul 20 00:51:30 Rick__: do it!!! i did Jul 20 00:51:32 it feels good Jul 20 00:51:40 i've got git on my pre now Jul 20 00:51:46 im gonna track every change i make on it Jul 20 00:52:00 PuffTheMagic: stgit is available in optware too Jul 20 00:52:07 yeah but i hate quilt Jul 20 00:52:13 (I ported it the other night) Jul 20 00:52:16 and i like guilt better than stgit Jul 20 00:52:27 if i 'have' to use quilt Jul 20 00:53:29 * PuffTheMagic goes to see Harry Potter movie Jul 20 00:53:35 i will be back latter tonight Jul 20 00:53:55 happy pre hacking! Jul 20 00:54:13 PuffTheMagic: i wouldnt expect much... Jul 20 00:54:52 For those of you adding pages, make sure your following the Name_Uppercase_Again scheme. Jul 20 00:55:53 thanks for helpp rwitby, i needed perl and apache on my emu for testing Jul 20 00:57:56 hey whats the new wiki's code tag Jul 20 00:58:08 Templarian: do we need a "Style Guide" page on the new wiki ? Jul 20 01:01:39 sweet testing can now being without trashing my phone now =p Jul 20 01:02:59 tharris-: eh? Jul 20 01:03:11 oh Jul 20 01:03:18 optware for emulator, got it Jul 20 01:06:29 tharris-: did the script work? Jul 20 01:07:54 rwhitby: we probably should. Jul 20 01:16:48 raeb: anyterm's backend IS c++ btw not c Jul 20 01:20:10 seigex: did you ever make any progress with USB OTG? Jul 20 01:20:16 rwhitby: i couldnt get the patch i created earlier to work, did you get my PM about deleting it from the repository? Jul 20 01:20:23 I could not revert it was giving me errors Jul 20 01:20:37 jcrawford: just delete it and push Jul 20 01:20:56 no need to try and revert the history - someone else might want to resurrect it later Jul 20 01:21:59 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Tutorials_Linux_DDNS_for_EVDO Jul 20 01:22:23 raeb: nice Jul 20 01:22:46 how do you delete from git? Jul 20 01:23:42 delete the file from the local repository, commit, push Jul 20 01:23:43 git rm Jul 20 01:23:46 or that Jul 20 01:23:53 yea tried that : Jul 20 01:24:00 oh :-/ Jul 20 01:24:06 git rm -f Jul 20 01:24:25 what's all this? Jul 20 01:24:30 http://pastie.org/551631 Jul 20 01:24:46 git pull ; git reset --hard HEAD ; git rm -f ; git commit -a -m "Deleted " ; git push Jul 20 01:25:20 Anyone here know much about the battery percetage mod? Jul 20 01:25:25 (be aware those commands will blow away any local changes you have) Jul 20 01:26:18 Could someone help me repair my Pre? After doing the "change-enter-to-create-newline-instead-of-send-message" hack, now I can't access my messaging conversations or text in any way. Jul 20 01:26:41 Abyssul: you backup the files you modified? Jul 20 01:27:03 I wouldn't know how Jul 20 01:27:08 I know the changes I did Jul 20 01:27:10 any clue why quilt was not applying the patch? Jul 20 01:27:35 Abyssul: did you use quilt or you edit the files yourself? Jul 20 01:27:44 Root acces, then vi Jul 20 01:28:13 Abyssul -- you know which files you edited? Jul 20 01:28:23 I did the exact thing in http://predev.wikidot.com/change-enter-to-create-newline-instead-of-send-message Jul 20 01:28:26 Abyssul: ugh, ALWAYS backup any file before editing. One sec and i'll get you a link to unmodified versions of the files you modified Jul 20 01:28:44 Would you mind telling me how to backup files? Jul 20 01:28:49 sure Jul 20 01:28:49 or a link Jul 20 01:29:06 before editing xyx.txt type cp xyx.txt xyz.txt.safe Jul 20 01:29:23 Abyssul: http://predev.wikidot.com/stock-application-mods Jul 20 01:29:25 which makes a copy of the file. Jul 20 01:29:39 how would you restore that file Rick? Jul 20 01:30:32 get it back from the doctor jar file Jul 20 01:31:18 Abyssul: mv xyz.txt.safe xyz.txt Jul 20 01:31:28 Thanks Jul 20 01:33:18 Abyssul: app/controllers/compose-assistant.js --> http://webos.pastebin.com/f13cca2f4 Jul 20 01:33:26 grr quilt sucks lol Jul 20 01:33:41 wont remove the patches with quilt pop /opt/src/patches/capture_with_volume_keys.patch Jul 20 01:33:51 Abyssul: app/controllers/chatview-assistant.js --> http://webos.pastebin.com/d35498f50 Jul 20 01:34:04 Thanks so much. But Im trying to understand what I did wrong Jul 20 01:34:19 Im going to restore now. One step at a time :) Jul 20 01:34:42 Abyssul: sometimes mods don't work like they should. I had the same problem with another mod. Jul 20 01:34:59 anyone that can lend a hand with quilt? Jul 20 01:35:07 True :). What does it mean to comment out? Jul 20 01:36:47 jcrawford: did you try just quilt pop? Jul 20 01:37:23 jcrawford: have you pastebin'ed the exact steps you are taking to create this patch? Jul 20 01:37:26 yea finally got it Jul 20 01:37:36 drnull: i was following the wiki page to a T Jul 20 01:37:44 HebrewzHammer: please done post links to redistributions of Palm copyright code here. Jul 20 01:37:47 the changes seemed fine on my end. Also the patch went into git just fine Jul 20 01:38:03 it was quilt import /patch/path Jul 20 01:38:14 and then quilt push, that was not pusing the changes Jul 20 01:38:55 Abyssul: To comment lines out in javascript you put "//" at the begining of the line, then everything after is commented out. Jul 20 01:39:06 Abyssul: you do know what commenting is, right? Jul 20 01:39:24 Nope, and thats where I messed up :) Jul 20 01:39:30 I just deleted that part of the script Jul 20 01:39:47 jcrawford: I thought you were trying to create a patch? And then that patch wasn't applying well? That's why I asked for the steps for how you created the patch, not how you got it from git and pushed it. Jul 20 01:40:11 I might have you confused with somebody else, I've been in & out today Jul 20 01:40:16 drnull: i did exactly as this page stated http://predev.wikidot.com/applying-patches Jul 20 01:40:23 anyway i will try it again tomorrow Jul 20 01:40:27 time to shower and hit the bed Jul 20 01:40:29 gnite guys Jul 20 01:40:30 Abyssul: You should really get some understanding of programming and linux before attempting any of this. But from now on ALWAYS make a backup of anyfile before you modify it. Jul 20 01:40:59 jcrawford: lol, but that page has lots of stuff on it. Try to log what you are doing next time so we can help. Jul 20 01:40:59 later Jul 20 01:41:29 will do Jul 20 01:42:19 Mind throwing me a link at me to catch up on Linux? Jul 20 01:42:55 http://predev.wikidot.com/basic-linux-use Jul 20 01:48:43 hmmm Jul 20 01:48:53 Hebrewz pastebin link expired Jul 20 01:51:01 Would someone mind shooting me a pastebin link of the app/controllers/chatview-assistant.js source code? Jul 20 01:53:29 Abyssul wait one please Jul 20 01:53:47 Sure thing Jul 20 01:57:52 Reseting now, hope it works :) Jul 20 01:59:44 http://pastebin.com/d2e6f5311 Jul 20 01:59:57 uh Jul 20 02:00:07 I got it to work :) thanks Rick Jul 20 02:00:11 ok Jul 20 02:00:25 btw Jul 20 02:00:40 if you're not a linux guy, you might want to install a different editor than vi. Jul 20 02:00:42 vi sucks. Jul 20 02:00:49 ipkg-opt install nano Jul 20 02:00:55 then, the next time you want to edit a file Jul 20 02:00:59 nano filename Jul 20 02:01:03 which is WAY better. Jul 20 02:01:18 nano -c filename leaves the line-number display on all the time, which is better. Jul 20 02:01:35 I'll look into it. Thanks Jul 20 02:02:04 Linux has Komodo also... might want to look into that. Jul 20 02:09:07 * JackieRipper is a vi fan Jul 20 02:10:20 VI FTW Jul 20 02:10:24 * ShadeS high fives JackieRipper Jul 20 02:10:39 * ShadeS goes back to lurk mode waiting to pounce on eMacs fans Jul 20 02:11:08 lol Jul 20 02:16:52 * Templarian lols Jul 20 02:18:11 * rwhitby runs emacs on the Pre emulator regularly. Jul 20 02:18:18 Is optware-bootstrap.sh sopouse to be ready for use on an actual pre or just the emulator at this point? Jul 20 02:18:36 Remailednet: should be ready for both. Please test and we'll fix any problems. Jul 20 02:21:01 rwhitby: have there been any other bugs reported on the bootstrap script? Jul 20 02:21:09 It is having trouble finding the ipkg-opt Package - http://webos.pastebin.com/m39f606a4 Jul 20 02:21:13 JackieRipper: not that I know of Jul 20 02:21:33 Remailednet: Pre or Emulator? Jul 20 02:21:36 spoke too soon Jul 20 02:21:39 Pre Jul 20 02:21:47 Remailednet: let me take a look Jul 20 02:21:53 Remailednet: can you rerun the script using sh -x .... and post the log? Jul 20 02:22:06 it is hitting: http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/pre/cross/unstable/ and not much but kernel modules Jul 20 02:22:15 in there Jul 20 02:22:24 Remailednet: that's my fault. Jul 20 02:22:49 rwhitby: should I update the path? Jul 20 02:23:00 JackieRipper: I'll fix my mess :-) Jul 20 02:23:04 lol Jul 20 02:23:05 cool Jul 20 02:26:34 Remailednet: please redownload the script and try again Jul 20 02:26:39 I can't believe I haven't met another individual outside of one person who has a pre Jul 20 02:26:47 it's totally like flabbergasting Jul 20 02:26:49 Will do.. Jul 20 02:28:53 bzhou * r10471 optware/trunk/make/file.mk: file: 5.01 -> 5.03 Jul 20 02:29:55 which normally wouldn't be too shocking, but I'm in one of the largest cities in this country Jul 20 02:30:01 4th largest I think, according to the last census Jul 20 02:30:08 might be 5th largest with the 2010 census Jul 20 02:30:14 we use to be 3rd as of 1990 Jul 20 02:30:23 what city? Jul 20 02:30:39 Chi-town? Jul 20 02:32:08 bzhou * r10472 optware/trunk/make/hdparm.mk: hdparm: 9.15 -> 9.16 Jul 20 02:32:46 JackieRipper: you hollard? ;) Jul 20 02:32:57 yes chicago Jul 20 02:33:13 A little bit further - http://webos.pastebin.com/d267ca637 Jul 20 02:33:13 the only other person I met that has one is a realestate guy buy day, trapper by night Jul 20 02:33:22 *by Jul 20 02:33:52 The only other people I've met either work at Sprint stores or were buying a Pre the day I did Jul 20 02:33:52 And this is the first time trying to install, ipkg-opt was not installed before Jul 20 02:35:16 odd Jul 20 02:36:37 Looking in /tmp, it created ipkg-opt_0.99.163-10_arm.ipk.md5sum but didn't dl ipkg-opt_0.99.163-10_arm.ipk Jul 20 02:37:51 Remailednet: that is weird. Does /opt/bin/ipkg-opt exist? Jul 20 02:38:53 Nope, /opt only has etc in it Jul 20 02:40:08 rwhitby: I think there needs to be a cd /tmp in the # Download the Package file and check version block Jul 20 02:41:45 Not that it might be too helpful, but after line 440 executes, the value of ipkg_version will be: not Jul 20 02:42:44 Could that mess up the version checking? Jul 20 02:43:01 JackieRipper: can you do any edits needed now? Jul 20 02:43:08 yup Jul 20 02:44:31 Remailednet: please redownload the script and try again Jul 20 02:45:44 http://tinypic.com/r/2qv6qzp/3 Jul 20 02:48:39 Same thing. Jul 20 02:49:36 hmmm Jul 20 02:52:34 Remailednet: can you run it with sh -x and pastebin the output? Jul 20 02:52:55 sh -x optware-bootstrap.sh Jul 20 02:53:30 http://webos.pastebin.com/d1a79fbe9 Jul 20 02:54:28 ok... got iy Jul 20 02:54:30 it* Jul 20 02:58:36 Remailednet: please redownload the script and try again... I think we have it Jul 20 02:59:01 I burned an Ubunto 8.04.3 CDR from desktop iso image. I guess the next step is to shut my laptop down and see if the CD boot as a live CD, right? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jul 20 02:59:57 2009