**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 22 02:59:56 2009
Jul 22 03:00:03 <joesmith> hey yall where are the preference pages on the prew
Jul 22 03:00:04 <drnull_> cphelps: you've made it so?  Where?
Jul 22 03:00:05 <destinal> oh
Jul 22 03:00:06 <destinal> I know
Jul 22 03:00:32 <cphelps> drnull_: not there yet, but I have a design spec, and a good amount of code already in place
Jul 22 03:00:45 <Rick__> Hi joesmith
Jul 22 03:00:49 <cphelps> drnull_: the auto rooter already works
Jul 22 03:00:55 <joesmith> hey rick
Jul 22 03:01:01 <destinal> we install our mojo and service at once and the installer gives the app and the service a preshared key (just a long random string)
Jul 22 03:01:03 <Rick__> cphelps  YOU'RE BACK !!!
Jul 22 03:01:04 <cphelps> drnull_: I am waiting for new phones to test on.
Jul 22 03:01:07 <Rick__> YIPPEE
Jul 22 03:01:12 <Rick__> Welcoe back!!!
Jul 22 03:01:18 <destinal> at install time
Jul 22 03:01:34 <joesmith> where can I find this on my pre http://www.modifiedsportscar.com/upload/phoneprefs_2009-25-06_201138.jpg
Jul 22 03:01:39 <cphelps> Rick__: massive test cycle at work, no time to hack or work on anything else
Jul 22 03:01:48 <destinal> rwhitby: can you poke any holes in that?
Jul 22 03:01:54 <cphelps> Rick__: not to mention a bunch of theater this last weekend.
Jul 22 03:02:09 <drnull_> cphelps: ok, cool
Jul 22 03:02:22 <cphelps> drnull_: I'd be done if I didn
Jul 22 03:02:39 <rwhitby> destinal: that works I think.
Jul 22 03:02:40 <cphelps> didn't have a full time job and a need to helps others not releated to webos.
Jul 22 03:02:42 <drnull_> cphelps: so does your app store fulfill the ideas that rwhitby & destinal have?  Or do they still want their own?
Jul 22 03:02:50 <joesmith> never mind found it lol
Jul 22 03:03:12 <cphelps> drnull_: if there is anything I have left out, they will be consulted on fixing any issues.
Jul 22 03:03:27 <rwhitby> drnull_: my preference is that any homebrew app installer can work from standard ipkg feeds
Jul 22 03:03:31 <cphelps> drnull_: my concept is that the USER is right, but protect them from themselves
Jul 22 03:03:43 <cphelps> drnull_: which means there will be options to enable unsigned packages
Jul 22 03:03:54 <rwhitby> cphelps: do you just read normal Packages files?
Jul 22 03:04:01 <cphelps> rwhitby: that
Jul 22 03:04:09 <cphelps> rwhitby: that is part of it
Jul 22 03:04:19 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: you know where lunaservices.h is?
Jul 22 03:04:25 <cphelps> rwhitby: there will also be verified/signed packages
Jul 22 03:04:35 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: dear gods, did they short us on more open source codee
Jul 22 03:04:55 <PuffTheMagic> ummm
Jul 22 03:04:56 <rwhitby> cphelps: e.g., given the user can add a feed URL somehow, will it work with ipkg.preware.org and ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross ?
Jul 22 03:05:04 <PuffTheMagic> i forgot to look in the sdk files
Jul 22 03:05:07 <PuffTheMagic> i was looking on the pre
Jul 22 03:05:16 <cphelps> rwhitby: there will be multiple feed "types
Jul 22 03:05:24 <cphelps> one of which is /opt
Jul 22 03:05:39 <cphelps> rwhitby: I'
Jul 22 03:05:47 <cphelps> crap. terrible typing tonight
Jul 22 03:05:54 <rwhitby> the ' is too close to enter
Jul 22 03:05:57 <PuffTheMagic> actuallyt i forget where anyof the headers were
Jul 22 03:06:06 <cphelps> rwhitby: the idea is to let users do anything, but to protect them as much as possible
Jul 22 03:06:13 <cphelps> rwhitby: if they want to add a feed, they do
Jul 22 03:06:31 <cphelps> rwhitby: and a package can be checked for signature verification if required
Jul 22 03:06:45 <rwhitby> cphelps: as long as a social engineered rogue app can't add a feed, and it actually requires a real human to type in the URL, I agree.
Jul 22 03:06:49 <PuffTheMagic> oh yeah i was using webcore headers
Jul 22 03:07:00 <PuffTheMagic>  i have nfc were lunaservices.h would be
Jul 22 03:07:12 <cphelps> rwhitby: users can add feeds, no outside shit.
Jul 22 03:07:23 <rwhitby> if a user types in http://warezrules.ru/I/am/a/rogue/feed/Packages, then they deserve everything they get
Jul 22 03:07:34 <cphelps> rwhitby: technically it would be possible, but very difficult since the DB would be outside of their namespace
Jul 22 03:07:35 <destinal> lmao
Jul 22 03:07:49 <rwhitby> if a user can be tricked into installing a chess game, and *it* installs such a feed, that is definitely no good
Jul 22 03:08:01 * drnull_ imagines a ipkg service interface combined with captcha
Jul 22 03:08:08 <cphelps> rwhitby: same thing. I believe the feed DB can be well protected
Jul 22 03:08:08 <destinal> those chess games are very untrustworthy
Jul 22 03:08:11 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: ++ about deserving what they get
Jul 22 03:08:13 <destinal> their authors too
Jul 22 03:08:20 <destinal> :P
Jul 22 03:08:23 <rwhitby> :-)
Jul 22 03:08:33 <PuffTheMagic> they can either use our repo and trust what we give them
Jul 22 03:08:37 <PuffTheMagic> or go crazy and take the risk
Jul 22 03:08:38 <cphelps> hold folks, my glass is empty
Jul 22 03:08:45 <rwhitby> cphelps: how do you stop the rogue chess game masquerading your app id?
Jul 22 03:10:06 <cphelps> rwhitby: you can't install multiple apps to the same location
Jul 22 03:10:25 <cphelps> rwhitby: so technically you can operate on the same namespace, but it's rather difficult
Jul 22 03:11:02 <destinal> cphelps: what about appinfo.json?
Jul 22 03:11:04 <cphelps> rwhitby: but technical hurdle wise, that's really not a major issue. The service is mine and I can do pretty much any kind of auth I want
Jul 22 03:11:14 <cphelps> destinal: I'm not touching that at all.
Jul 22 03:11:26 <rwhitby> cphelps: what stops them creating the database first?
Jul 22 03:11:33 <destinal> I mean, can an app using a faked appinfo.json still install to a directory that doesn't match their name?
Jul 22 03:11:58 <cphelps> destinal: I'm sure that can be dealt with.
Jul 22 03:12:04 <destinal> and yeah getting there first is an issue though one the installer could probably fix by blowing away any pretenders if the directory has to match namespace :)
Jul 22 03:12:11 <destinal> I like my file based psk idea.
Jul 22 03:12:49 <destinal> if directory doesn't have to match namespace as some have hinted my earlier method isn't good
Jul 22 03:12:54 <cphelps> destinal: I'm open to reccomendations as to that sort of stuff
Jul 22 03:13:13 <destinal> cphelps: well the way I want to do ours is you have a preware installer installer
Jul 22 03:13:20 <destinal> over usb, novacom, etc
Jul 22 03:13:21 <cphelps> destinal: I've done a small amount of crypto for my company's license installation utils, but other than that I am just a user
Jul 22 03:13:24 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: yeah it looks like no lunaservices.h
Jul 22 03:13:28 <drnull_> rwhitby: how could it create the db first?  The db is tied to directory of the app?
Jul 22 03:13:35 <cphelps> destinal: that's what I have done
Jul 22 03:13:44 <rwhitby> drnull_: I install the rogue app first
Jul 22 03:14:01 <destinal> cphelps: so the way I want to install ours, we write a javascript file with a random preshared key in it on install
Jul 22 03:14:05 <cphelps> drnull_: not a directory, but a namespace
Jul 22 03:14:13 <destinal> we write thee same key into a config file on the service side
Jul 22 03:14:22 <Eguy> Guys: any reason /var/opt/lib/perl5 is so big? 22mb....
Jul 22 03:14:38 <Eguy> casing me pain
Jul 22 03:14:39 <destinal> the client includes the key string in every dbus request it makes that is "sensitive"
Jul 22 03:14:47 <drnull_> cphelps: looks like it's based on the directory, but... file_.var.usr.palm.applications.com.ea.connect4_0/
Jul 22 03:14:48 <cphelps> destinal: since novacom allows you to just copy files, that's no biggie
Jul 22 03:14:50 <destinal> and the service validates it matches
Jul 22 03:15:01 <destinal> simple, eh?
Jul 22 03:15:11 <cphelps> destinal: that's my general concept for signed apps.
Jul 22 03:15:23 <cphelps> destinal: there will also be an option to allow unsigned shit
Jul 22 03:15:32 <cphelps> destinal: just because some people are idiots
Jul 22 03:15:45 <destinal> cphelps: I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing, but ok.  I'm talking about rogue installer apps
Jul 22 03:16:08 <cphelps> destinal: I am talking about what we do to make sure that the rogue installer apps don't use the service
Jul 22 03:16:14 <destinal> ie how do you know your mojo is your mojo and not mojo pretending to be you
Jul 22 03:16:32 <cphelps> destinal: oh, that's top seekrit
Jul 22 03:16:52 <destinal> well my way is top public, shouted from the rooftops
Jul 22 03:16:57 <destinal> and I daresay it works :P
Jul 22 03:17:20 <Eguy> PuffTheMagic: I fixed the problem with Sir JackieRippers assistance
Jul 22 03:17:22 <cphelps> destinal: kidding. I haven't implemented that side, so I'm open to what the community wants
Jul 22 03:17:36 <rwhitby> Eguy: cause perl hasn't been micro-granular packaged in optware
Jul 22 03:17:39 <Eguy> No webOS Doctor for me :D
Jul 22 03:17:43 <destinal> cphelps: well I wrote it up in the chan just now, use it if you like :)
Jul 22 03:17:44 <cphelps> destinal: but the impl is really rather trivial once you can do anything you want on the file system
Jul 22 03:17:54 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: why cant you juse use the md5 of the ipkg-service on first install
Jul 22 03:17:59 <destinal> it's fairly simple, I don't claim genius
Jul 22 03:18:01 <PuffTheMagic> then you should know that you are you
Jul 22 03:18:09 <cphelps> destinal: we'll need to talk more. I'm a simple guy.
Jul 22 03:18:31 <PuffTheMagic> Eguy: i figured it was possible :D glad its working now
Jul 22 03:18:46 <cphelps> destinal: I just use md5 and psk with stuff for my work, so that is what I am most familiar with
Jul 22 03:18:52 <destinal> I could write palm for the .h, but they probably hate me
Jul 22 03:19:03 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: you want to ask?
Jul 22 03:19:10 <PuffTheMagic> yeah i can ask...
Jul 22 03:19:17 <Eguy> I should post that to the wiki
Jul 22 03:19:25 <PuffTheMagic> they rejected my request for powerd code
Jul 22 03:19:33 <destinal> just explain that you're trying to build their open source project and can't without the header
Jul 22 03:19:36 <destinal> oh,
Jul 22 03:19:43 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: on what grounds for powerd?
Jul 22 03:19:50 <destinal> or just asking
Jul 22 03:19:52 <PuffTheMagic> they just said it was closed source
Jul 22 03:19:56 <destinal> yeah
Jul 22 03:20:13 <cphelps> I don't see much reason for them to release that
Jul 22 03:20:28 <PuffTheMagic> cphelps: i wont to be able to do things on power events
Jul 22 03:20:48 <destinal> they seem to have made a lot of important omissions with their open source stuff.  a lot won't build
Jul 22 03:20:51 <PuffTheMagic> and manipulate power states
Jul 22 03:21:04 <cphelps> PuffTheMagic: there aren't things coming over the dbus?
Jul 22 03:21:10 <cphelps> PuffTheMagic: Hint, there are :-)
Jul 22 03:21:12 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: yeah i will say i cant build libpurple adapter with out it
Jul 22 03:21:17 <destinal> I have an idea for a project.  who wants to get together and build every patched palm program you can from opensource.palm and let's assemble a list on the wiki of all the stuff that's missing?
Jul 22 03:21:42 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: haha
Jul 22 03:22:05 <PuffTheMagic> cphelps: i would still like control over power states
Jul 22 03:22:16 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: reverse engineer :)
Jul 22 03:22:19 <cphelps> PuffTheMagic: as in setting your own?
Jul 22 03:22:36 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: ;)
Jul 22 03:22:42 <PuffTheMagic> cphelps: yes
Jul 22 03:22:54 <PuffTheMagic> im sure dbus only lets you listen
Jul 22 03:22:58 <PuffTheMagic> to power state events
Jul 22 03:23:41 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: so you'll ask?  I think with other stuff going on I'm not the best one to
Jul 22 03:23:56 <PuffTheMagic> yeah i will send them a request
Jul 22 03:24:38 <PuffTheMagic> its reasonable
Jul 22 03:24:49 <PuffTheMagic> they shouldnt have a reason to say no
Jul 22 03:25:22 <DSouljah> ok guys, I am back to the first thing... I ran the talk.py and now getting the ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: ''
Jul 22 03:25:54 <DSouljah> I have the pre driver installed
Jul 22 03:26:00 <DSouljah> was working until that damn sdk
Jul 22 03:26:04 <DSouljah> what can I do??????
Jul 22 03:27:06 <cphelps> DSouljah: end it all now
Jul 22 03:27:28 <DSouljah> ok and
Jul 22 03:29:36 <cphelps> DSouljah: as in IT ALL.
Jul 22 03:31:28 <DSouljah> and I have... I uninstalled IT ALL. So do you know what I can do?? Or does no one know?
Jul 22 03:31:34 <rwhitby> DSouljah: use the official Palm SDK
Jul 22 03:31:47 <rwhitby> and novaterm
Jul 22 03:32:04 <rwhitby> all others methods are obsolete :-)
Jul 22 03:32:25 <rwhitby> new, more convenient methods are in the works.
Jul 22 03:32:51 <rwhitby> but the official Palm SDK is guaranteed to always work, and if it doesn't you can get support from Palm until it does.
Jul 22 03:33:15 <ultraBlack2> holy crap i've been USING the wrong version this whole time
Jul 22 03:33:23 <ultraBlack2> this is a whole diff. interface. much nicer ^_^
Jul 22 03:33:29 <ultraBlack2> thanks all :p
Jul 22 03:33:58 <rwhitby> ultraBlack2: you've continued the conversation in the wrong channel, assuming you're referring to xcaht
Jul 22 03:34:06 <Eguy> YAY!!!
Jul 22 03:34:17 <Eguy> It worked!!!
Jul 22 03:34:21 <Eguy> IT LIVES!!!!
Jul 22 03:34:26 <ultraBlack2> rwhitby: oh lol :x
Jul 22 03:34:39 <DSouljah> so once I installed the sdk for the third time, where is the docs to get me set back up to working directly on the pre?
Jul 22 03:34:49 <ultraBlack2> rwhitby: still noob
Jul 22 03:34:59 <rwhitby> DSouljah: on Palm's web site
Jul 22 03:35:08 <rwhitby> run novaterm
Jul 22 03:35:17 <rwhitby> then you're in directly as root
Jul 22 03:35:39 <DSouljah> ok let me start over... thanks
Jul 22 03:44:31 <JackieRipper> rwhitby: I was thinking... would it be a good idea to separate the sftp install from the bootstrap script into its own?
Jul 22 03:45:12 <rwhitby> JackieRipper: it's pretty small, and people expect sftp to work
Jul 22 03:45:59 <JackieRipper> sure, but it's currently a separate page in the wiki, and I'm sure there's lots of people who have no use for it. /I/ have no use for it :)
Jul 22 03:49:01 <rwhitby> JackieRipper: all those wiki pages should now be replaced by:
Jul 22 03:49:03 <rwhitby> 1) install the SDK
Jul 22 03:49:11 <rwhitby> 2) use novaterm to access Linux
Jul 22 03:49:21 <rwhitby> 3) wget the optware-bootstrap.sh script
Jul 22 03:49:30 <rwhitby> 4) run the optware-bootstrap.sh script
Jul 22 03:49:46 <rwhitby> 5) (optional) wget and run the quilt-bootstrap.sh script
Jul 22 03:49:48 <rwhitby> 6) profit
Jul 22 03:50:02 <JackieRipper> :)
Jul 22 03:52:52 <jwm> now how to install the mojo sdk on 64bit linux would be nice
Jul 22 03:53:32 <JackieRipper> jwm: just install it?  It's working fine on 64bit gentoo... I didn't do anything special
Jul 22 03:53:47 <jwm> you got the debs
Jul 22 03:53:54 <jwm> and deb2tgz
Jul 22 03:54:00 <jwm> anything else?
Jul 22 03:54:18 <JackieRipper> actually, I used alien, not deb2tgz
Jul 22 03:54:31 <jwm> heh
Jul 22 03:54:40 <jwm> did you have to install java?
Jul 22 03:54:53 <JackieRipper> I already had it installed
Jul 22 03:54:57 <JackieRipper> I can check the version
Jul 22 03:55:07 <jwm> what command do you run to start it
Jul 22 03:55:15 <jwm> also do you have virtualbox installed
Jul 22 03:55:55 <jwm> I run a pretty barebones gentoo
Jul 22 03:56:12 <JackieRipper> dev-java/sun-jdk-1.6.0.14
Jul 22 03:56:43 <JackieRipper> and I installed app-emulation/virtualbox-bin and app-emulation/virtualbox-guest-additions
Jul 22 03:57:13 <jwm> then what did you run to start things up?
Jul 22 03:57:19 <jwm> I'd like to use kvm instead of virtualbox
Jul 22 03:57:25 <jwm> I have a custom kvm setup heh
Jul 22 03:57:26 <JackieRipper>  /opt/PalmSDK/Current/bin/ppalm-emulator
Jul 22 03:57:39 <JackieRipper> oops, typo - only one "p"
Jul 22 03:58:30 <jwm> mine complains about not being able to load 32bit swt libraries
Jul 22 03:58:39 <jwm> was there a special 64bit download?
Jul 22 03:58:44 <JackieRipper> nope
Jul 22 03:58:48 <jwm> or should it not try to load swt?
Jul 22 03:59:00 <JackieRipper> eselect java-vm show
Jul 22 03:59:01 <jwm> maybe it tries to find virtualbox running and if it doesn't it loads that
Jul 22 03:59:07 <jwm> I've got the right jdk
Jul 22 03:59:17 <jwm> sun-jdk-1.6
Jul 22 03:59:38 <JackieRipper>  /etc/init.d/virtualbox-guest-additions start
Jul 22 04:00:18 <JackieRipper> oh, and you'll need to add yourself to a group and start a new shell... installing virtualbox creates a group
Jul 22 04:00:25 <jwm> yeah
Jul 22 04:00:29 <JackieRipper> vboxusers
Jul 22 04:00:29 <jwm> I was hoping not to use virtualbox
Jul 22 04:00:56 <JackieRipper> if it's any consolation, it's small
Jul 22 04:01:09 <jwm> I just like the vnc support in kvm
Jul 22 04:01:17 <JackieRipper> and I can verify it works
Jul 22 04:01:25 <JackieRipper> and it's what palm designed it for
Jul 22 04:01:36 <JackieRipper> designed their image to run in, that is
Jul 22 04:01:43 <jwm> yeah
Jul 22 04:02:02 <PuffTheMagic> it should be trivial to extra the image and run it in kvm/qemu
Jul 22 04:03:27 <jwm> why does the palmsdk come with the stupid palm- apps
Jul 22 04:03:34 <jwm> and not just a vmdk
Jul 22 04:03:39 <jwm> I found the vmdk in the package
Jul 22 04:03:53 <jwm> I tried running it straight from kvm didn't like it
Jul 22 04:04:38 <PuffTheMagic> well im sure that wont work
Jul 22 04:05:01 <PuffTheMagic> err... idk what is different about vmdk and a regular ext3 img
Jul 22 04:05:31 <PuffTheMagic> but its just a regular x86 linux userland
Jul 22 04:05:35 <PuffTheMagic> it should run on anything
Jul 22 04:05:49 <jwm> yeah
Jul 22 04:05:54 <jwm> kvm supports loading vmdk
Jul 22 04:05:58 <jwm> which is vmware's native disk format
Jul 22 04:06:11 <jwm> but it just hangs there and says booting from hard disk
Jul 22 04:06:12 <jwm> heh
Jul 22 04:06:46 <PuffTheMagic> jwm: did you use the right cmline opts
Jul 22 04:07:06 <PuffTheMagic> and i dont think you boot the vmdk image
Jul 22 04:07:09 <PuffTheMagic> i think that is your root
Jul 22 04:07:15 <PuffTheMagic> i think there is a bootloader img you boot
Jul 22 04:07:26 <PuffTheMagic> so u need 2 images
Jul 22 04:08:13 <jwm> heh, you're right
Jul 22 04:08:16 <jwm> I forgot about the grub.iso
Jul 22 04:08:40 <Eguy> Rick! Thanks for the game
Jul 22 04:09:12 <jwm> hah that worked
Jul 22 04:09:17 <jwm> why are all those other apps there?
Jul 22 04:09:19 <jwm> the support apps
Jul 22 04:09:23 <Rick__> eguy - welcome.  Neil Pearce deserves the thanks, but he's dissappeared.
Jul 22 04:09:44 <PuffTheMagic> they are used for things
Jul 22 04:09:47 <Eguy> Should keep me busy while I wait in court this week
Jul 22 04:09:50 <PuffTheMagic> lilke installing apps to the phone
Jul 22 04:09:55 <Rick__> did you follow the discussion thread?
Jul 22 04:10:06 <Eguy> yep
Jul 22 04:10:20 <Rick__> eguy,  I'm going to try to have a gnu-chess client by tommorow night.
Jul 22 04:10:29 <Rick__> but it will be cloud-based.
Jul 22 04:10:41 <Eguy> Awww I just took my Pre out of dev mode :(
Jul 22 04:10:52 <Rick__> I just can't see running a REAL chess server on the pre.
Jul 22 04:11:01 <jwm> PuffTheMagic: do they send commands to virtualbox somehow?
Jul 22 04:11:05 <jwm> hmm
Jul 22 04:11:08 <Eguy> You should be able to install ipk's and access the FS via usb without dev mode
Jul 22 04:11:35 <PuffTheMagic> yeah it integrates with vbox
Jul 22 04:11:43 <PuffTheMagic> there is nice eclipse plugin for doing dev work
Jul 22 04:11:50 <PuffTheMagic> test apps right on the emu
Jul 22 04:11:58 <PuffTheMagic> you can do it with out vbox
Jul 22 04:12:04 <PuffTheMagic> just more work
Jul 22 04:12:16 <Eguy> I use dreamweaver for editing the Pre's files
Jul 22 04:12:50 <jwm> hehe
Jul 22 04:13:10 <jwm> I don't have any X installed on the server
Jul 22 04:13:53 <jwm> looks like that image doesn't like kvm
Jul 22 04:13:59 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: you still up? i cant figure out where cjson/json comes from either
Jul 22 04:14:01 <jwm> it stops at eth0 MAC addr
Jul 22 04:14:15 <jwm> guess I'll install virtualbox sigh
Jul 22 04:14:18 <jwm> and X
Jul 22 04:14:22 <PuffTheMagic> jwm: did you privde it all the hw you need
Jul 22 04:14:35 <PuffTheMagic> look at the xml file for vbox
Jul 22 04:14:46 <PuffTheMagic> for ideas how to configure kvm
Jul 22 04:15:16 <jwm> where is that xml file?
Jul 22 04:15:50 <PuffTheMagic> i dont remember
Jul 22 04:16:03 <jwm> heh
Jul 22 04:16:13 <jwm> I don't see any reference to virtualbox in the PalmSDK dir
Jul 22 04:16:13 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: here
Jul 22 04:16:22 <destinal> more headers?
Jul 22 04:16:38 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: well its just a json lib
Jul 22 04:16:51 <destinal> it may be oss, what's it called?
Jul 22 04:16:51 <PuffTheMagic> but i cant figur out where it came from
Jul 22 04:16:53 <PuffTheMagic> maybe they made it
Jul 22 04:17:01 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: idk what the proper name is
Jul 22 04:17:11 <destinal> what's the .h?
Jul 22 04:17:14 <PuffTheMagic> i just know there is a header <cjson/json.h>
Jul 22 04:17:22 <PuffTheMagic> and all i can find with cjson is python-cjson
Jul 22 04:17:52 <jwm> well, sleep time
Jul 22 04:17:54 <jwm> thanks for the help
Jul 22 04:18:00 <PuffTheMagic> np
Jul 22 04:18:04 <jwm> I'll bitch some more tomorrow if it doesn't run
Jul 22 04:18:05 <jwm> heh
Jul 22 04:18:10 <destinal> the only cjson I can see is python
Jul 22 04:18:13 <jwm> do you use vnc with virtualbox ever?
Jul 22 04:18:38 <PuffTheMagic> jwm: no use for that really
Jul 22 04:18:44 <PuffTheMagic> not me at least
Jul 22 04:18:49 <jwm> k
Jul 22 04:19:00 <jwm> I might have to use nomachine again then
Jul 22 04:19:01 <jwm> heh
Jul 22 04:19:06 <jwm> freenx*
Jul 22 04:19:26 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: may be another part of the request to palm, alas
Jul 22 04:20:02 <destinal> unless it actually uses the python cjson c code if there is some, let me see
Jul 22 04:20:12 <PuffTheMagic> guess i just have to use java for now since that seems to be all available
Jul 22 04:20:14 <PuffTheMagic> i checked
Jul 22 04:20:23 <PuffTheMagic> i dont see a ,h file in the python-cjson package
Jul 22 04:20:56 <destinal> I'm getting frustrated with all the missing code for their oss releases
Jul 22 04:21:17 <destinal> but ask, they're pretty responsive at least
Jul 22 04:25:58 <PuffTheMagic> are their docs for adding an icon in the top of bottom status bar
Jul 22 04:32:08 <JackieRipper> is there a package in the optsware repo that contains ldd?
Jul 22 04:32:22 <rwhitby> JackieRipper: binutils probably
Jul 22 04:32:48 <JackieRipper> rwhitby: cool, thanks!
Jul 22 04:33:17 <PuffTheMagic> JackieRipper: just rsync the whole userland to your desktop ;)
Jul 22 04:33:29 <JackieRipper> hmm
Jul 22 04:33:36 <JackieRipper> I actually did that already
Jul 22 04:33:38 <JackieRipper> lol
Jul 22 04:35:52 <JackieRipper> no ldd in binutils
Jul 22 04:36:32 <tmzt> JackieRipper: I usually use strings |grep lib
Jul 22 04:36:43 <tmzt> saves messing with the cross ldd's that always seem to be missing
Jul 22 04:36:51 <tmzt> objdump can help also
Jul 22 04:37:09 <rwhitby> JackieRipper: the Pre has some utilities on it
Jul 22 04:37:56 <JackieRipper> hmmm
Jul 22 04:41:10 <jwm> JackieRipper: equery b /usr/bin/ldd
Jul 22 04:41:12 <jwm> gives you glibc
Jul 22 04:41:15 <jwm> not a fun package to build
Jul 22 04:41:19 <JackieRipper> aye
Jul 22 04:43:01 <jwm> god I have to install so many packages for this
Jul 22 04:43:07 <jwm> my system was so nice and clean
Jul 22 04:43:09 <jwm> hehe
Jul 22 04:46:27 <PuffTheMagic> im sure you have the space for it
Jul 22 04:49:37 <derek> how do I install an ipk app to my Pre through OSX?  I found the Windows instuctions
Jul 22 04:49:55 <Eguy> through terminal
Jul 22 04:50:08 <rwhitby> derek: use the Palm SDK and the palm-install script
Jul 22 04:50:22 <rwhitby> instructions are on developer.palm.com
Jul 22 04:50:55 <derek> ah, cool
Jul 22 04:51:43 * rwhitby is so glad that "rooting" help is now as simple as pointing to Palm's website.
Jul 22 04:51:55 <jwm> yeah
Jul 22 04:52:05 <jwm> I can't believe sprint isn't trying to stop them
Jul 22 04:52:10 <jwm> from making it so open
Jul 22 04:52:23 <jwm> it's a good thing they aren't as large as they want to be I guess
Jul 22 04:52:38 <d03boy> palm doesn't care... its the Sprint that might care
Jul 22 04:54:13 <JackieRipper> who asked Palm for powerd's source?
Jul 22 04:56:18 <rwhitby> jwm: Sprint get's their revenue whether or not you have root.
Jul 22 04:56:19 <derek> Sprint doesn't really care either.  They're really catering to developers lately.
Jul 22 05:00:17 <jwm> rwhitby: tell that to all the phone carriers that scream murder if you can change the background on your phone without paying $$$
Jul 22 05:00:37 <jwm> these carriers do care
Jul 22 05:00:59 <jwm> since they lose money in their minds if they can't lock you into their app(s)
Jul 22 05:01:02 <rwhitby> ah, then "ringtone revenue" - yeah, I can accept that
Jul 22 05:01:27 <jwm> lot of these phone companies don't want you to be able to do crap with your phone
Jul 22 05:01:45 <jwm> even the iphone is locked down like crazy hehe
Jul 22 05:02:15 <psykoz> iphone is locked down by apple's choice
Jul 22 05:02:33 <jwm> is no tethering apples choice? heh
Jul 22 05:03:07 <psykoz> no, but by locked down meaning apple trying to prevent people from gaining root access, that is apple's choice to cntinue to fight the iphone dev team and various groups of people
Jul 22 05:03:14 <psykoz> it wants to protect its app store's revenues
Jul 22 05:03:34 <jwm> it makes pennies off the app store
Jul 22 05:03:42 <jwm> compared to revenue from selling the phones
Jul 22 05:03:57 <rwhitby> um, are you sure about that?
Jul 22 05:04:00 <psykoz> 7 million pennies a day is still $70k/day
Jul 22 05:04:01 <jwm> apple is closed down anyway though really
Jul 22 05:04:16 <psykoz> or ~$25m/yr
Jul 22 05:04:28 <jwm> that's still pennies to apple
Jul 22 05:04:31 <jwm> hehe
Jul 22 05:04:58 <derek> AT&T is the big exception among the 3 carriers now days.  Sprint & T-Mobile are clearly moving towards the "open" model for devices.
Jul 22 05:05:11 <derek> err... 4 carriers
Jul 22 05:07:00 * rwhitby considers US carriers to be irrelevant anyway, living in .au ..
Jul 22 05:07:08 <psykoz> so apparently apple's app store in its first month turned a $30m profit
Jul 22 05:07:39 <psykoz> even if it only brings in $10m/month, that's still $120m/yr, and I would most definitely keep my phone locked down to protect that
Jul 22 05:12:13 <psykoz> Anyway keeping the phone locked down clearly generates revnue that exceeds the costs of paying developers / legal staff to constantly battle the non-legit front, and also gives them ultimate control of their users devices / experience which is what they want as well
Jul 22 05:12:50 <psykoz> apple doesn't like you, why would they unlock their phone for you?
Jul 22 05:13:09 <Eguy> Apple likes idiots who buy their products :)
Jul 22 05:13:22 <Eguy> but enough of my nonsense :D
Jul 22 05:13:51 <psykoz> :)
Jul 22 05:24:53 <Xuzz> http://freefile.kristopherw.us/uploads/icefire/classic_bsod.bmp
Jul 22 05:31:56 <|Jason8|> Xuzz: wut
Jul 22 05:32:11 <Xuzz> from Classic on the pre
Jul 22 05:32:13 <Xuzz> I converted it
Jul 22 05:32:34 <destinal> hehe, rsod?
Jul 22 05:32:55 <seigex> hi
Jul 22 05:32:59 <destinal> seigex: hey
Jul 22 05:33:27 <Xuzz> it was called bsod.rgba
Jul 22 05:35:32 <destinal> what did you use to convert it?
Jul 22 05:35:59 <destinal> an array of RGBA values like they would send to the browser screen buffer, I'm getting familiar with that :)
Jul 22 05:36:16 <seigex> whattup desti
Jul 22 05:36:49 <destinal> plugins on the brain
Jul 22 05:37:01 <seigex> i got beer on the brain
Jul 22 05:37:03 <seigex> and in the mouth
Jul 22 05:37:09 <seigex> Stone IPA
Jul 22 05:37:24 <destinal> nice.  I just finished a boulder beer mojo IPA
Jul 22 05:37:41 <seigex> about to grab myself another bottle
Jul 22 05:37:59 <seigex> damn.. figuring out sparging for all grain is a pain in the ass
Jul 22 05:38:04 <seigex> i got it down now i think
Jul 22 05:38:21 <seigex> you have to get your grain temp and your target mash in temp and do a calculation to figure out your strike water temp
Jul 22 05:38:26 <Xuzz> oh I just wrote an app to convert it destinal
Jul 22 05:38:38 <seigex> then you have to figure out how much heat is absorbed by your mash-tun and then add that to the strike temp
Jul 22 05:38:51 <seigex> so that you don't kill off the enzymes
Jul 22 05:38:55 <seigex> and you don't sparge under temp
Jul 22 05:39:08 <seigex> which gave me alot of great ideas btw
Jul 22 05:40:47 <destinal> yeah. we need #webos-beer
Jul 22 05:40:49 <destinal> hehe
Jul 22 05:41:01 <seigex> haha good idea
Jul 22 05:41:05 <destinal> somehow they're related
Jul 22 05:41:06 <seigex> already done
Jul 22 06:03:01 <ameng> er, ssh to pre via wifi , the connection  interrupt every half minute when there is no net operations
Jul 22 06:12:04 <raeb> ok so its the 22nd, wheres my webos update
Jul 22 06:12:11 <seigex> desti u still alive
Jul 22 06:12:20 <raeb> ameng: are you plugged into USB ?
Jul 22 06:12:28 <raeb> (charger or otherwise)
Jul 22 06:12:30 <seigex> ameng, when its not plugged in it goes into standby
Jul 22 06:12:50 <seigex> you have to keep it awake or set it through the hack to make it not go into standby until 30 minutse or longer
Jul 22 06:13:18 <raeb> kill powerd
Jul 22 06:13:23 <raeb> but dont forget to restart it
Jul 22 06:13:29 <raeb> phone wont charge without it :D
Jul 22 06:13:54 <ameng> no, so I can only ssh with my pre nearby, err
Jul 22 06:14:21 <raeb> theres gotta b a way to wake it up on ssh
Jul 22 06:14:26 <raeb> i mean it wakes up when u receive a call
Jul 22 06:14:33 <raeb> there u go
Jul 22 06:14:35 <raeb> just call your pre
Jul 22 06:14:36 <raeb> then ssh
Jul 22 06:14:45 <tmzt> if it won't charge without it, that's probably a custom powerd, not the upstream one somebody was looking for
Jul 22 06:14:57 <ameng> :-(
Jul 22 06:21:23 <seigex> Anyone here interested in homebrewing beer .. the channel is now #webos-beer :)
Jul 22 06:25:20 <ShadeS> hey
Jul 22 06:25:20 <ShadeS> any ideas why my date still reports as the '15th' on my fone?
Jul 22 06:25:30 <destinal> raeb: call it then ssh, novel
Jul 22 06:39:23 <ameng> not interesting, we couldn't control the webbrowser behavior when browsing. e.g. re-layout a page to fit the screen width; when surf a local html page by a local http server dont check the connection state
Jul 22 06:40:32 <tmzt> why not?
Jul 22 06:40:45 <ameng> can we?
Jul 22 06:41:11 <ameng> how?
Jul 22 06:41:12 <destinal> ameng: hey
Jul 22 06:41:28 <ameng> destinal:hey
Jul 22 06:41:46 <destinal> what local http server?
Jul 22 06:42:10 <ameng> i install a lighttpd to browse local html files
Jul 22 06:42:48 <ameng> it seems palm does not open the file:// protocol
Jul 22 06:46:38 <destinal> ameng: ah.  I think typically you'd want to do that via a browser plugin but I haven't thought about it much.
Jul 22 07:06:48 <ameng> they use webkit as a gui-tools. and call the functions in webkit from there core apps (e.g. BrowserServer)
Jul 22 07:07:02 <ameng> their
Jul 22 07:08:45 <ameng> we can not add new functions to there core app. we can only use the functions of the core sevices from  sdk.......
Jul 22 07:13:45 <ameng> I'll start to look at the browser plugin stuff to figure out what i can do
Jul 22 07:39:05 <joshua> infobot just told me i had a message waiting... i read it and its dated 2004
Jul 22 07:41:38 <destinal> joshua: lol
Jul 22 07:42:13 <joshua> " snes9x 1.43-WIP1 seems ok for me.  what problem were you having?"
Jul 22 07:42:44 <destinal> must be a nick collision
Jul 22 07:43:03 * destinal is going to bed
Jul 22 07:43:04 <destinal> good night
Jul 22 07:43:04 <joshua> i think the database just spat up something old
Jul 22 08:00:40 <james_> hi, i was wondering and hoping someone might be able to walk me through rooting my pre on linux
Jul 22 08:00:51 <james_> the website is not clear to me
Jul 22 08:17:07 <ameng> james_: just do it following the wiki instructions
Jul 22 08:21:02 <james_> i have installed the libusb-dev
Jul 22 08:21:41 <james_> when i sudo ./novacom i get: Error claiming interface 1: -16
Jul 22 08:22:26 <tmzt> something already has it open
Jul 22 08:22:33 <tmzt> either another novacom or a kernel driver
Jul 22 08:22:46 <james_> something has *what* open?
Jul 22 08:23:11 <tmzt> the usb device
Jul 22 08:23:20 <tmzt> the pre
Jul 22 08:23:31 <james_> should i be in just charge mode or usb mode?
Jul 22 08:28:00 <tmzt> what is usb mode? storage?
Jul 22 08:28:05 <james_> ya
Jul 22 08:28:16 <james_> says the same error in both modes
Jul 22 08:28:54 <tmzt> lsof |grep usb
Jul 22 08:29:00 <tmzt> pastebin
Jul 22 08:30:23 <james_> http://webos.pastebin.com/m3630b98a
Jul 22 08:31:46 <seigex> boredom
Jul 22 08:37:16 <tmzt> evolution? why?
Jul 22 08:37:30 <tmzt> but no open devcies, do you still get that error?
Jul 22 08:37:54 <james_> still getting error
Jul 22 08:39:12 <tmzt> pastebin lsmod
Jul 22 08:39:33 <tmzt> you have unplugged/replugged the pre right?
Jul 22 08:39:56 <rwhitby> james_: easiest way is to install the Palm SDK, and follow the directions on their website to run novaterm.
Jul 22 08:40:19 <james_> can i edit icons and images with the sdk?
Jul 22 08:40:22 <james_> i have the emulator
Jul 22 08:41:23 <james_> tmzt, yes i have plugged and unplugged the pre a few times
Jul 22 08:41:39 <rwhitby> james_: novaterm allows you to log into the Pre as root
Jul 22 08:41:52 <james_> thanks rwhitby
Jul 22 08:41:54 <rwhitby> then you can install an ssh daemon to allow scp or sftp access from then on
Jul 22 08:42:08 <james_> and all the optware you have provided?
Jul 22 08:42:10 <rwhitby> we have an optware-bootstrap.sh script which automates that
Jul 22 08:42:19 <james_> ok i will just do that
Jul 22 08:42:20 <rwhitby> yep
Jul 22 08:42:57 <rwhitby> I think tonight I am going to fix all our "Linux Access" wiki pages to just point to the appropriate instructions on the Palm site.
Jul 22 08:43:09 <james_> oh my god
Jul 22 08:43:11 <james_> literally
Jul 22 08:43:15 <james_> typed novaterm in terminal
Jul 22 08:43:19 <james_> and immediately root@castle
Jul 22 08:43:23 <rwhitby> yep
Jul 22 08:43:31 <james_> fuckin been at this for an hour
Jul 22 08:43:43 <james_> thanks rwhitby
Jul 22 08:43:51 <rwhitby> np
Jul 22 08:44:03 <james_> was novaterm on the wiki?
Jul 22 08:44:47 <rwhitby> james_: that's what I'm going to fix tonight
Jul 22 08:44:59 <rwhitby> we've only been able to recommend it since the SDK public release
Jul 22 08:45:08 <james_> ok
Jul 22 08:51:06 <cell> hello
Jul 22 08:52:17 <rwhitby> james_: if you need to uninstall optware, just remove everything under /opt and start again.
Jul 22 08:53:40 <tmzt> nothing in event.d or elsewhere? just asking
Jul 22 08:59:57 <seigex> hahaha
Jul 22 09:02:57 <james_> thank you for help tmzt  and rwhitby, good nigiht
Jul 22 11:31:49 <jcrawford> good morning everyone
Jul 22 11:34:27 <xMDKx> jcrawford: morning
Jul 22 11:34:52 <blau-mikeDG> morning
Jul 22 11:36:33 <jcrawford> :D
Jul 22 11:36:48 <jcrawford> tis why i love this channel so cheerfull in the morning hahah
Jul 22 11:41:42 * jcrawford doesn't want to be at work, would rather be doing webOS stuff
Jul 22 11:42:41 <blau-mikeDG> do it at work :)
Jul 22 11:47:01 <jcrawford> blau-mikeDG: i do a bit but cannot let it take over the entire day
Jul 22 11:47:09 <jcrawford> they should just pay me to do webos and forget php :D
Jul 22 11:49:43 <tmzt> doesn't webos prove the client side is more important anyway?
Jul 22 11:50:12 <jcrawford> lol tmzt
Jul 22 11:50:22 <jcrawford> yea i told em to just use cappuccino.org :)
Jul 22 11:54:10 <en0x> well time to start porting old wiki pages to new one
Jul 22 12:03:17 <en0x> hmmm
Jul 22 12:03:26 <en0x> my pre no longer shows battery warning at 20%
Jul 22 12:37:24 <PuffTheMagic> morning
Jul 22 12:38:34 <PuffTheMagic> i started working on a java service
Jul 22 12:38:41 <PuffTheMagic> using the hello-service as a base
Jul 22 12:38:57 <PuffTheMagic> it seems to need 4 jars provided by the sdk userland or the pre userland
Jul 22 12:39:54 <PuffTheMagic> since the jars have .classes and not .java files are we allowed to distribute them or do they fall into the same boat as the modifications to existing pre apps
Jul 22 12:55:13 <bpadalino|work> the jars are already included on the pre - so the jvm already has those classes loaded
Jul 22 12:55:32 <bpadalino|work> so the classloader will know what to do
Jul 22 12:55:32 <bpadalino|work> no need to distribute
Jul 22 13:00:30 <PuffTheMagic> bpadalino: you still need to be able to build the class file
Jul 22 13:00:42 <PuffTheMagic> which requires that you have the jars in your classpath
Jul 22 13:01:15 <PuffTheMagic> wheni  say distribute them... i just mean include them in the git repo with the project so that people can build the code
Jul 22 13:02:35 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: have your build script download the doctor file and get the files you need out of that.  you can't redistribute palm files in your git repo.
Jul 22 13:03:18 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: got a public link to that... when i downloaded the the doctor i needed my serial number and all it gave me was a jnlp file
Jul 22 13:03:24 <PuffTheMagic> for java auto web start
Jul 22 13:03:34 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: we have a public link on the doctor page on the wiki
Jul 22 13:03:44 <PuffTheMagic> k
Jul 22 13:04:14 <PuffTheMagic> i could figure out how to do that in ant im sure
Jul 22 13:04:57 <rwhitby> http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre_p100eww/webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar
Jul 22 13:05:10 <bpadalino|work> i dunno - automatically downloading a very large file like the webos doctor seems a bit of overkill
Jul 22 13:05:25 <rwhitby> bpadalino|work: I don't know of any other legal alternative
Jul 22 13:05:54 <bpadalino|work> can't you just put the link in the readme and say "You need to download this and locate the jar files, or point ENV_VAR to the jars required"
Jul 22 13:06:07 <bpadalino|work> the people doing the building are most likely devs and can understand that ..
Jul 22 13:06:17 <bpadalino|work> and for people who aren't, you can upload .class files that are yours and prebuilt
Jul 22 13:06:22 <rwhitby> bpadalino|work: well, you make sure that if it's already downloaded you don't download it again
Jul 22 13:07:03 <rwhitby> in optware, for instance, we keep a top-level downloads directory, and all downloads go in there.  then the makefile only downloads if it's not already there
Jul 22 13:07:37 <rwhitby> it's much easier for a script to extract the files than to ask a dev to hunt through the doctor to find them
Jul 22 13:09:32 <bpadalino|work> i'd make sure 1) there is a warning with confirmation of downloading - and if the doctor is already downloaded, place the file <here> and 2) optional instructions on what to do if you do want to just set it up by yourself
Jul 22 13:09:58 <bpadalino|work> you could use novacom to pull it off of a pre as well
Jul 22 13:10:03 <bpadalino|work> since java class files are universal
Jul 22 13:11:09 <bpadalino|work> so you could use novacom to pull it out of the emulator as well i suppose
Jul 22 13:13:36 <tmzt> what does it use java for that isn't linked to a jni library?
Jul 22 13:14:09 <bpadalino|work> there are interface definitions and DBus things written in java that it needs to link against
Jul 22 13:17:16 <tmzt> oh, okay
Jul 22 13:26:14 <oc80z> uhkef
Jul 22 13:26:23 <oc80z> nasty blister from baseball
Jul 22 13:26:40 <bpadalino|work> teaches you to go out and do physical activity
Jul 22 13:26:58 <blau-mikeDG> play mario baseball on wii
Jul 22 13:27:07 <oc80z> heh
Jul 22 13:27:11 <tmzt> that's too physical
Jul 22 13:27:14 <oc80z> no battin gloves
Jul 22 13:27:46 <oc80z> ever dig w/o gloves
Jul 22 13:27:59 <oc80z> its like instant 100 calusz0r
Jul 22 13:28:24 <oc80z> heh my wifes like, what happened? lookn at my thumb
Jul 22 13:28:35 <oc80z> i pick the pre up, and flip it up, 'too much of this'
Jul 22 13:36:00 <oc80z> i think she believed me
Jul 22 13:36:18 <destinal> rwhitby: the problem is that the classes are binary code and not open source licensed.  what are we doing with our existing services?  they can't be made of those classes or we infringe.
Jul 22 13:37:16 <destinal> unless.. are the classes on the phone already?  if so we just need a classpath to point at them
Jul 22 13:38:10 <destinal> so long as we don't distribute them, we should be fine
Jul 22 13:39:18 <destinal> its important to figure out what we're doing with the existing services we're making available to make sure the method we're using isn't to send copies of them
Jul 22 13:39:28 <tmzt> doesn't your java have to have classpath exception or something then?
Jul 22 13:39:50 <tmzt> what are the services for though?
Jul 22 13:40:07 <destinal> tmzt: there's a sample service and the one that the commander uses
Jul 22 13:40:45 <tmzt> I mean why do they need to import things from palm?
Jul 22 13:41:00 <destinal> and I haven't looked into the java services that ship on the phone to figure out how the classpath is set but I imagine it's designed to keep them in one common place, so it should be easy
Jul 22 13:41:23 <tmzt> properties?
Jul 22 13:41:42 <destinal> tmzt: I guess standard interface / glue code
Jul 22 13:42:40 <destinal> we could reverse engineer and write our own interface code from scratch if we have to but may as well use what's there at least to get things going
Jul 22 13:43:05 <tmzt> are you talking about Interfaces?
Jul 22 13:43:17 <destinal> the dbus service listener stuf
Jul 22 13:43:18 <destinal> stuff
Jul 22 13:43:36 <destinal> it's common to all the java services I believe
Jul 22 13:43:44 <PuffTheMagic> how do i link to the phone...
Jul 22 13:43:57 <PuffTheMagic> that would be pretty tricky
Jul 22 13:43:58 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: java links at run time
Jul 22 13:44:04 <PuffTheMagic> thats not what i mean
Jul 22 13:44:17 <PuffTheMagic> for the purpose of building a java luna service
Jul 22 13:44:24 <PuffTheMagic> you still need the jars/classes
Jul 22 13:44:28 <PuffTheMagic> to make the class
Jul 22 13:44:38 <PuffTheMagic> so how do i point javac to jars on the phone
Jul 22 13:45:07 <PuffTheMagic> im not worried about "runtime":
Jul 22 13:45:12 <PuffTheMagic> im worried about build time
Jul 22 13:45:17 <PuffTheMagic> i know runtime will work fine
Jul 22 13:45:21 <destinal> you don't have to have them to javac your new classes
Jul 22 13:45:26 <destinal> afaik
Jul 22 13:45:35 <destinal> only to run the result
Jul 22 13:45:53 <PuffTheMagic> no you need them to build
Jul 22 13:46:00 <PuffTheMagic> javac spits out errors other wise
Jul 22 13:46:04 <PuffTheMagic> just like every other language
Jul 22 13:46:07 <destinal> well copy them to your build box then from doctor like they were saying
Jul 22 13:46:14 <destinal> just don't bundle them into a jar
Jul 22 13:46:18 <PuffTheMagic> yeah i know
Jul 22 13:46:23 <destinal> kk
Jul 22 13:46:27 <PuffTheMagic> but someone said use the jars on the phone
Jul 22 13:46:33 <PuffTheMagic> instead of downloading the huge doctor file
Jul 22 13:46:46 <destinal> oh well yeah you could copy the jars from your phone to build box
Jul 22 13:47:03 <PuffTheMagic> i can just make downloading the jars a target that a user needs to run manually
Jul 22 13:47:06 <PuffTheMagic> not part of the build step
Jul 22 13:47:16 <PuffTheMagic> that way they can get them from their userland/sdk
Jul 22 13:47:21 <PuffTheMagic> or if too lazy webosdoctor
Jul 22 13:47:42 <destinal> well if you're using like a makefile I'd have it do a scp -p 5522 root@localhost etc to copy them from the emulator
Jul 22 13:47:52 <destinal> and make that some optional target to save them time
Jul 22 13:48:01 <PuffTheMagic> hmm yeah i could make a target like that too
Jul 22 13:48:11 <PuffTheMagic> not using makefiles... using ant since this is java ;)
Jul 22 13:48:16 <destinal> ok
Jul 22 13:48:19 <PuffTheMagic> but i could still do that
Jul 22 13:48:21 <destinal> well you _could_ :)
Jul 22 13:48:44 <destinal> make is make but I understand ant maybe saving you some work
Jul 22 13:48:47 <PuffTheMagic> if someone is working on a java prog they most likely already have ant
Jul 22 13:49:37 <PuffTheMagic> i hate writing Makefiles.... i do everything i can to avoid it... scons, or premake ftw!
Jul 22 13:50:37 <PuffTheMagic> but anyway... i got an idea of what i can do to get the jars for people
Jul 22 13:50:58 <destinal> do the existing services we ship include those classes in the jar file?
Jul 22 13:51:00 <destinal> I hope not
Jul 22 13:51:10 <PuffTheMagic> no
Jul 22 13:51:13 <destinal> ok good
Jul 22 13:51:16 <PuffTheMagic> its just a java file
Jul 22 13:51:18 <PuffTheMagic> and a class fie
Jul 22 13:51:20 <PuffTheMagic> no jars
Jul 22 13:51:23 <destinal> good deal
Jul 22 13:51:30 <PuffTheMagic> its only 4 jars
Jul 22 13:51:42 <PuffTheMagic> serviceframework lunaservices json Util
Jul 22 13:51:53 <destinal> so the device already has the proper classpath so the service classes "just work"
Jul 22 13:52:12 <PuffTheMagic> yeah im not worried about running this was all about building
Jul 22 13:55:12 <destinal> kk
Jul 22 13:55:36 <destinal> commute &
Jul 22 16:05:37 <Lurking_Grue> Wow, another Palm is the suck article on TechCrunch: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Techcrunch/~3/e_vlGXqnAlk/
Jul 22 16:06:34 <psykoz> I have a friend who is a die hard iPhone/Apple user
Jul 22 16:06:48 <psykoz> he bought a Pre for his dad recently, because his dad doesn't like touchscreen keyboards
Jul 22 16:08:04 <psykoz> His quote "every time I see a negative article about the Pre, I either think Apple paid for that PR, or it is just some Apple diehard who is scared of competition" followed by "the Pre is a really awesome phone, if you were judging the hardware with true independant reviews, it's a great phone, it doesn't feel cheap, it has a great OS, it's definitely years ahead of Android and Windows Mobile"
Jul 22 16:10:37 <Lurking_Grue> Yeah I wonder where the "Feel cheap" thing comes from... the pre feels rather nice.  Yeah the mockups at stores feel cheap but then they are mockups.
Jul 22 16:10:49 <blau-mikeDG> i think it feel sgreat
Jul 22 16:13:02 <jcrawford> gah
Jul 22 16:13:40 <Epyon1> hey could any of you guys help me? its kinda a newb question
Jul 22 16:15:16 <jcrawford> Epyon1: just ask, don't ask to ask :)
Jul 22 16:15:23 <Epyon1> lol sorry
Jul 22 16:15:28 <jcrawford> i personally wont be able to help though i am a newb myself
Jul 22 16:15:31 <Epyon1> well i cant get ssh to start up on the pre
Jul 22 16:15:46 <Epyon1> i just get timeouts when trying to connect
Jul 22 16:15:50 <jcrawford> did you install with ipkg-opt?
Jul 22 16:15:54 <Epyon1> yeah
Jul 22 16:16:03 <jcrawford> are you trying to ssh over wifi or EVDO>
Jul 22 16:16:08 <Epyon1> wifi
Jul 22 16:16:10 <Lurking_Grue> What did you use for a port number?
Jul 22 16:16:10 <joesmith> does anyone know where the actual instructions are for this mod http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Bookmarking_MediaPlayer
Jul 22 16:16:15 <jcrawford> also are you using port 222 in your ssh client?
Jul 22 16:16:21 <Epyon1> oh its 222
Jul 22 16:16:23 <Epyon1> lol
Jul 22 16:16:25 <jcrawford> by default the installs set it to that port
Jul 22 16:16:29 <Epyon1> that would have been nice to know
Jul 22 16:16:34 <Lurking_Grue> Make sure the port on the ssh server and the iptables match.
Jul 22 16:18:00 <Epyon1> ok now i have a connection
Jul 22 16:18:11 <Epyon1> i had no idea it was defaulted to 222
Jul 22 16:19:04 <Epyon1> thx alot
Jul 22 16:21:36 <Templarian> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Main_Page_beta Thinking about switching out the new main page (will probably get minor edits). Question Where should Plugin's and Adapters be linking?
Jul 22 16:22:43 <PuffTheMagic> how come CIA aint setup to track the applications git repo ?
Jul 22 16:23:52 <destinal> the CIA?
Jul 22 16:24:02 <destinal> they're tracking our git repo?
Jul 22 16:24:07 <PuffTheMagic> CIA bot
Jul 22 16:24:08 <destinal> oh the bot
Jul 22 16:24:16 <destinal> :P
Jul 22 16:24:37 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: have you checked the repo this morning?
Jul 22 16:25:03 <destinal> credit to mrvc, he's really made good progress, though still some bugs to work out
Jul 22 16:25:13 <destinal> and functionality to add
Jul 22 16:25:25 <PuffTheMagic> i just pulled before i pushed my SysfsService
Jul 22 16:25:33 <PuffTheMagic> i saw some nice commit messages ;)
Jul 22 16:26:32 <mrvc> lots to do
Jul 22 16:27:01 <mrvc> but fun!
Jul 22 16:29:49 <joesmith> does anyone know where the actual instructions are for this mod http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Bookmarking_MediaPlayer
Jul 22 16:33:14 <Templarian> Okay. I'm going to be moving over the wiki's Main Page so no one complain for a few minutes.
Jul 22 16:33:24 <jcrawford> :)
Jul 22 16:33:33 * jcrawford starts complaining and writing a blog entry about Templarian
Jul 22 16:39:43 <drnull> joesmith: The instructions are to follow the instructions found at the Applying Patches page (linked at the bottom), and then select the appropriate patch to install.
Jul 22 16:40:53 <drnull> joesmith: or, if you're feeling adventurous, you can download the patch and apply it yourself.  http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications/blobs/master/musicplayer/bookmark.patch
Jul 22 16:41:55 <Templarian> Done. Main page has been swapped.
Jul 22 16:43:07 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: I'd say you should help on term but your work on installer service is just as important
Jul 22 16:44:27 <atlanta> wsuppp
Jul 22 16:45:02 <destinal> atlanta: good morning
Jul 22 16:45:30 <atlanta> destinal: morning man (afternoon here ) how you doing
Jul 22 16:45:53 <destinal> good
Jul 22 16:48:20 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: well i can help on the term with the linuxy/term code but im not really familar yet with the NSPAPI
Jul 22 16:49:45 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: there's definitely linuxy stuff in need of doing, sorting out keypress events and working on the vt100 emulation stuff
Jul 22 16:50:15 <PuffTheMagic> k
Jul 22 16:50:27 <PuffTheMagic> oh btw
Jul 22 16:50:56 <PuffTheMagic> is there a way to disable the auto-capitalize feature in luna
Jul 22 16:51:03 <PuffTheMagic> it drives me CRAZY!
Jul 22 16:51:47 <FreeTim31> @puff: Me too.  Hands off my texting, Palm, I know where the Shift key is :)
Jul 22 16:57:35 <atlanta> Anybody think they will find a way to incorporate openGL
Jul 22 16:57:35 <atlanta> ?
Jul 22 16:58:21 <blau-mikeDG> i think we may see that on the next webos device
Jul 22 16:59:01 <atlanta> ahhhh they need to bring it to the pre
Jul 22 16:59:13 <atlanta> no real games without it
Jul 22 16:59:28 <blau-mikeDG> the pre has serious battery issues :( open gl will make it much much worse
Jul 22 16:59:44 <blau-mikeDG> and i think that would look very bad for palm
Jul 22 17:02:49 <ShadeS> serious battery issues?
Jul 22 17:02:57 <atlanta> ShadeS: hell yea
Jul 22 17:03:01 <atlanta> horrible battery issues
Jul 22 17:03:16 <ShadeS> well maybe if you didn't stream pandora all day long with the brightness at maximum and had the wifi on when you weren't in range of a network that you're connected to, you might live to see the end of the day with your battery ;)
Jul 22 17:03:39 <ShadeS> I'll agree, it's a 'struggle' to get that to last me to the end of the day
Jul 22 17:03:43 <ShadeS> because I do stream pandora 24/7
Jul 22 17:03:52 <atlanta> ShadeS: believe me all of that is done
Jul 22 17:03:53 <atlanta> i dont
Jul 22 17:03:54 <ShadeS> I sure hope that unlimited plan is 'unlimited'
Jul 22 17:03:56 <atlanta> and i still have battery issues
Jul 22 17:04:03 <atlanta> i have to keep wall charger in my pocket
Jul 22 17:04:09 <atlanta> and car charger is a must for me
Jul 22 17:04:09 <ShadeS> are you sure it's just not your fone?
Jul 22 17:04:16 <ShadeS> yea car charger is definitly a must
Jul 22 17:04:18 <atlanta> maybe ill take it in one day
Jul 22 17:04:19 <ShadeS> i acutally don't have one
Jul 22 17:04:24 <ShadeS> i have a dc->ac converter
Jul 22 17:04:35 <ShadeS> and just plug my thing in, cause the handy one comes with that detachable cord and folding prongs
Jul 22 17:04:38 <atlanta> from a q9c to this is HORRIBLE
Jul 22 17:04:44 <ShadeS> q9c?
Jul 22 17:04:48 <atlanta> moto
Jul 22 17:04:51 <ShadeS> oh
Jul 22 17:04:51 <atlanta> motorola q9c
Jul 22 17:05:04 <ShadeS> Has anyone owned a palm here?
Jul 22 17:05:11 <ShadeS> 600, 650, 700p etc?
Jul 22 17:05:41 <ShadeS> by *default* with no 'additional software' instead of 'unknown caller' it would display the state that the area code was from whenwhoever called
Jul 22 17:05:48 <ShadeS> Is this a feature I can enable on my pre?
Jul 22 17:05:55 <kevin-> Treo Pro, and Pre. Oh, and two III's.
Jul 22 17:06:30 <atlanta> ShadeS: no
Jul 22 17:07:13 <PuffTheMagic> there is LOTS that can be improved PM wise
Jul 22 17:07:26 <PuffTheMagic> wait for the Palm kernel team to release a new kernel version
Jul 22 17:07:32 <PuffTheMagic> and wait till they have a git repo :D
Jul 22 17:07:38 <PuffTheMagic> then we will see some better power saving
Jul 22 17:07:51 <PuffTheMagic> kernel
Jul 22 17:07:53 <PuffTheMagic> oops
Jul 22 17:08:16 <atlanta> PuffTheMagic: thing is its gonna take them forever to get that done
Jul 22 17:10:09 <PuffTheMagic> naaa not forever
Jul 22 17:54:57 <Rick_> atlanta,  before fall.
Jul 22 17:55:11 <atlanta> Rick_: for the new kernel
Jul 22 17:55:11 <atlanta> ?
Jul 22 17:55:16 <Rick_> We had one of the team in here yesterday.they said "soon" with the clear intention of weeks not months
Jul 22 17:55:25 <Rick_> public kernal repository
Jul 22 17:55:25 <atlanta> oh ok
Jul 22 17:55:27 <atlanta> sounds good
Jul 22 18:09:08 <hopspitfire> It looks like all but 2 pages have been ported over.
Jul 22 18:09:11 <hopspitfire> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Pages_to_be_Transferred
Jul 22 18:09:34 <hopspitfire> I left a list of wikidot specific functions, I need confirmation before removing them from the list.
Jul 22 18:23:41 <PuffTheMagic> can someone help me with luna-send
Jul 22 18:23:49 <PuffTheMagic> i followed the hello-service example
Jul 22 18:23:57 <PuffTheMagic> but it is not working
Jul 22 18:24:16 <PuffTheMagic> i have function setLedBrightness
Jul 22 18:24:21 <PuffTheMagic> that takes 2 params
Jul 22 18:24:26 <PuffTheMagic> device & value
Jul 22 18:24:38 <PuffTheMagic> so according to the example it should be something like:
Jul 22 18:24:46 <PuffTheMagic> {\"device\
Jul 22 18:24:48 <PuffTheMagic> oops
Jul 22 18:25:30 <PuffTheMagic> {\"device\":\"core_navi_center\",\"value\":\"50\"}
Jul 22 18:25:32 <Templarian> hopspitfire: why did you move the old sidebar and front page over?
Jul 22 18:25:32 <PuffTheMagic> something like that
Jul 22 18:25:36 <PuffTheMagic> but i get this error
Jul 22 18:25:54 <PuffTheMagic> Service Method Exception: org.json.JSONException: A JSONObject text must begin with '{' at character 1
Jul 22 18:26:00 <Templarian> We already transfered all of that, if you don't need them I'm going to delete them out.
Jul 22 18:27:14 <blau-mikeDG> yes! got OFX transactions working from chase
Jul 22 18:34:41 <FreeTim31> Is the bendy launch bar on the bottom of the pre, programmable ? That is can I add/ remove to it?
Jul 22 18:35:10 <FreeTim31> The one that comes up when you slide your finger up from the bottom ?
Jul 22 18:35:18 <PuffTheMagic> i looks like the same contents as the regular bottom bar
Jul 22 18:35:23 <PuffTheMagic> if you can change one i bet it changes both
Jul 22 18:35:32 <PuffTheMagic> but idk if that can be done
Jul 22 18:36:20 <FreeTim31> It'd be cool. I really want ::my:: favorites there, not Palm's choices
Jul 22 18:36:29 <gkatsev> yeah you can
Jul 22 18:36:41 <gkatsev> just press and hold untill you get the halo
Jul 22 18:36:54 <gkatsev> you cant remove the launcher from there
Jul 22 18:38:03 <FreeTim31> oh that works. I did it while launcher app was up.  You can add/ remove.  That was easy.  Thanks Gkatsev !!!
Jul 22 18:38:29 <gkatsev> np
Jul 22 18:38:51 <gkatsev> i believe you can do it when you are at home screen as well
Jul 22 18:39:45 <atlanta> yea u can rearrange on home screen
Jul 22 18:42:30 <FreeTim31> Looks like a max of 5 icons though for sure.
Jul 22 18:42:49 <atlanta> yea 4 including the launcher
Jul 22 18:43:24 <FreeTim31> Was that in the manual? If so i missed it
Jul 22 18:44:23 <FreeTim31> if not, I'll write a (very short) wiki page about it
Jul 22 18:44:27 <atlanta> yea it is'
Jul 22 18:44:41 <FreeTim31> ah ok then I'm being a n00b.   Thanks :)
Jul 22 18:45:23 <atlanta> lol
Jul 22 18:45:24 <atlanta> np
Jul 22 18:49:14 <Rick_> write it anyway.  LOTS of things in the wiki repeat things in the manual
Jul 22 18:49:18 <Rick_> lots and lots and lots.
Jul 22 19:02:48 <FreeTim31> @Rick OK thanks
Jul 22 19:11:08 <PuffTheMagic> how come contacts and calendar and mail are not in the launcher
Jul 22 19:11:25 <PuffTheMagic> ahh drag it back into favorites
Jul 22 19:31:53 <tilted> destinal, I noticed in the scrollback that VT100 help is needed.  Any more details on what is needed?
Jul 22 19:33:07 <destinal> tilted: well, to get a feel for what is needed next, just look at the "applications" git repository and the termplugin code there (and the org.webosinternals.term mojo app which embeds it)
Jul 22 19:34:17 <tilted> destinal: will do
Jul 22 19:35:10 <destinal> our next steps are to 1) see if we can get it multithreaded with a blocking thread on input from the vty, right now only updates are on events like key presses
Jul 22 19:35:26 <destinal> that one requires working with the NPAPI interfaces we use a bit
Jul 22 19:35:39 <destinal> 2) improve overall drawing support so that ncurses, curses apps draw properly
Jul 22 19:36:22 <destinal> 3) get shift and orange to be handled properly (right now they are sent as keys to the terminal but they should be modifiers to other keys sent, ie sticky modes)
Jul 22 19:38:20 <destinal> 4) better font support would also be nice, maybe we can use libfreetype and allow variable font sizes, right now it's a hard-coded 40 column display
Jul 22 19:38:50 <tilted> Ah, so mostly dealing with the Pre hardware then.  I have a lot of experience with the VT datastream but it sounds like that stuff may be sorted out.
Jul 22 19:39:23 <destinal> tilted: it may be but maybe you have ideas on how it can be improved
Jul 22 19:39:32 <destinal> the VT data stuff
Jul 22 19:39:58 <destinal> mrvc has done some work with it before but I've never touched vt emulation until now
Jul 22 19:40:24 <tilted> cool, I'll take a look this evening
Jul 22 19:41:16 <destinal> tilted: cool, sounds good.  I'm trying to get anyone who has expertise in the different pieces used so we can progress faster -- we're really close right now but there's still a lot of stuff to do
Jul 22 19:44:16 <seigex> morning
Jul 22 19:46:56 * Templarian tries to figure out where it would be morning right now.
Jul 22 19:50:54 <Rick_> hawaii?
Jul 22 19:52:05 <Rick_> but no, his userinfo says 12;51.
Jul 22 19:52:11 <drnull> Templarian: Maybe he was just referring to UGT  :)
Jul 22 19:52:16 <seigex> i'm in so cal
Jul 22 19:52:18 <seigex> and i jsut woke up
Jul 22 19:52:19 <seigex> so its morning
Jul 22 19:52:26 <seigex> almost 1pm
Jul 22 19:52:48 <seigex> and haven't had coffee yet
Jul 22 20:01:54 <Templarian> lol... enjoying that wed I presume.
Jul 22 20:05:11 <drnull> destinal: Is there any way for a service to call back into luna and pop up a dialog or something to prompt the user?  You know, "An application has requested to install [APPID] from [APPURL].  Allow?  {YES} {NO}"
Jul 22 20:12:42 <destinal> drnull: well, applications can subscribe to events from a service
Jul 22 20:13:24 <destinal> so you could have a headless app subscribe to one and pop up an alert when it gets a message back
Jul 22 20:14:22 <destinal> kind of how the messaging app does it I believe
Jul 22 20:16:03 <Templarian> Anyone using eclipse for webOS dev?
Jul 22 20:16:14 <Templarian> Does it have full code completion for Mojo?
Jul 22 20:16:21 <drnull> destinal: right... just picturing the windows mobile (ack) model of when you try to install an application, whether it be program or user initiated, a confirmation prompt appears.
Jul 22 20:16:49 <drnull> Templarian: I'm not anymore... When I used it I never saw code completion (well, not more than just what you've already used in the current file)
Jul 22 20:17:14 <Templarian> Did you have that plugin thing installed though? (stats with an A?)
Jul 22 20:17:35 <drnull> aptana?  Yes
Jul 22 20:17:47 <Templarian> I don't think it does either, was just making sure.
Jul 22 20:17:55 <drnull> horrible, horrible plugin.  No uninstallation ability.  *shivers*
Jul 22 20:20:05 <destinal> drnull: which plugin?
Jul 22 20:20:10 <destinal> aptana?
Jul 22 20:20:35 <destinal> I installed it but haven't really done much with it I think
Jul 22 20:20:54 <Templarian> Thanks again guys.
Jul 22 20:20:57 <drnull> destinal: I use eclipse for work projects, and aptana litered my eclipse with bloatware, then I couldn't uninstall it.
Jul 22 20:24:21 <cublicledweller> Has anyone determined what server (i.e. Sprint vs. Palm) the update program connects to?
Jul 22 20:27:58 <destinal> cublicledweller: yes
Jul 22 20:28:39 <cublicledweller> ...
Jul 22 20:30:52 <destinal> sorry had to dig up the wiki I wrote on it
Jul 22 20:30:52 <destinal> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Update_Service_Trace
Jul 22 20:30:55 <cublicledweller> bah, I found it, I think
Jul 22 20:30:55 <PuffTheMagic> Templarian: yes it has code completion
Jul 22 20:30:57 <cublicledweller> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Update_Service_Trace
Jul 22 20:30:58 <cublicledweller> hah
Jul 22 20:31:04 <cublicledweller> thanks
Jul 22 20:31:44 <PuffTheMagic> Templarian: well actually
Jul 22 20:31:54 <PuffTheMagic> in java code completion works
Jul 22 20:32:07 <PuffTheMagic> and C code yes if you setup the include paths correctly
Jul 22 20:32:11 <PuffTheMagic> idk about js
Jul 22 20:32:21 <destinal> cublicledweller: I guess I should put my name on it somewhere in case anyone has questions
Jul 22 20:32:25 <destinal> since I wrote it in the old wiki
Jul 22 20:33:11 <destinal> the process I used to sniff the SSL session is also linked off that page
Jul 22 20:33:29 <psykoz> no signs of 1.1 today?
Jul 22 20:33:45 <cublicledweller> +destinal, thanks - I used the search on the new wiki, but the wiki's search capabilities are meager to say the least
Jul 22 20:33:58 <seigex> haven't checked.. sprint says I owe them $600 for the last month and a half
Jul 22 20:34:04 <destinal> yeah it seems easier to search and find things on wikidot.  ugh
Jul 22 20:34:07 <seigex> so my phone was turned off
Jul 22 20:34:10 <destinal> seigex: what?
Jul 22 20:34:12 <destinal> weird
Jul 22 20:34:13 <seigex> yea
Jul 22 20:34:23 <seigex> i have to call them jus thaven't had a chance to
Jul 22 20:34:36 <Rick_> been out of the country?
Jul 22 20:34:49 <Rick_> Been someplace where verison is the only service choice?
Jul 22 20:34:56 <Rick_> turned on data roaming?
Jul 22 20:35:06 <seigex> no not in a roaming area
Jul 22 20:35:11 <Rick_> all those could hurt you.
Jul 22 20:35:26 <seigex> heh i have the $99 unlimited everything
Jul 22 20:35:34 <seigex> i haven't looked at the bill yet.. i'll get it taken care of just need to call them
Jul 22 20:36:23 <seigex> heh when I go online.. it shows a phone from the 1940's and says "Not your phone?"
Jul 22 20:36:43 * psykoz grins
Jul 22 20:36:45 <psykoz> hey seigex
Jul 22 20:36:49 <Templarian> PuffTheMagic: the point that it's not documented, I'm going to go with it doesn't have it.
Jul 22 20:36:50 <seigex> yo
Jul 22 20:37:19 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: so i think i figured something out about the opensource e-mail
Jul 22 20:37:40 <PuffTheMagic> if you get the generic "we got your message are looking into it" reply then they will probably give you what you want
Jul 22 20:37:50 <PuffTheMagic> if they reply with a real message its probably saying no
Jul 22 20:37:53 <seigex> psykoz hook up a +o in ansipunx
Jul 22 20:38:05 <PuffTheMagic> i got a we will look into it for the lunaservices.h file
Jul 22 20:38:11 <seigex> thnx bra
Jul 22 20:38:23 <PuffTheMagic> or... libpurple-adapter cant compile e-mail really
Jul 22 20:39:07 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: no, I got the looking into it email re piranha
Jul 22 20:39:12 <destinal> then denial
Jul 22 20:39:15 <PuffTheMagic> ahhh
Jul 22 20:39:22 <PuffTheMagic> i never got that for my powerd request
Jul 22 20:39:28 <PuffTheMagic> i just got... its closed
Jul 22 20:39:33 <destinal> it may just be part of their handling process now
Jul 22 20:39:50 <PuffTheMagic> but you got the look into it message for your first request which they filled
Jul 22 20:40:07 <destinal> yeah that's true
Jul 22 20:40:43 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: did you receive all headers needed to build libpurple-adapter?
Jul 22 20:40:52 <PuffTheMagic> no i just got the we will look into it
Jul 22 20:41:01 <PuffTheMagic> i didnt check to see if they got back to me again yet
Jul 22 20:41:18 <destinal> they're pretty quick but it can take a couple of days
Jul 22 20:47:42 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: i hope they are smart enough to realise they need to give me that jsonc shit
Jul 22 20:47:46 <PuffTheMagic> err cjson
Jul 22 20:47:54 <PuffTheMagic> cause i didnt ask for it
Jul 22 20:48:43 <seigex> brb
Jul 22 21:07:24 <PuffTheMagic> so maybe someone could give me an idea what is going wrong with my LED Service
Jul 22 21:07:38 <PuffTheMagic> it does not seem to work for all values i send it
Jul 22 21:07:55 <PuffTheMagic> but the values i send it work from bash
Jul 22 21:08:07 <PuffTheMagic> and when it works its still not the right setting it seems
Jul 22 21:08:32 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: they have not in the past given anything but exactly what was asked for
Jul 22 21:08:38 <destinal> you'll probably have to ask again
Jul 22 21:09:07 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: is the service code anywhere?
Jul 22 21:09:18 <PuffTheMagic> i will push the latest version
Jul 22 21:11:11 <PuffTheMagic> ok pushed... dinner time for me
Jul 22 21:11:14 <PuffTheMagic> i will be back in a few
Jul 22 21:12:35 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: luna-send -n 1 palm://org.webosinternals.service.led/setBrightnessCenterLED {\"value\":\"50\"}
Jul 22 21:12:45 <PuffTheMagic> something like that I think should set the value
Jul 22 21:12:55 <PuffTheMagic> but 50 is much brighter from cli than it is with luna-send
Jul 22 21:13:05 <PuffTheMagic> and everything from 0-100 works at cli
Jul 22 21:13:15 <PuffTheMagic> but most dont work with luna-send/my service
Jul 22 21:13:59 <destinal> did you also try a luna-send -P -n 1
Jul 22 21:14:10 <destinal> just to make sure the public bus isn't doing anything odd?
Jul 22 21:38:31 <PuffTheMagic>     @LunaServiceThread.PublicMethod
Jul 22 21:38:37 <PuffTheMagic> ^^ i think that makes it non-private
Jul 22 21:38:38 <PuffTheMagic> ;)
Jul 22 21:39:54 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: heh, yeah
Jul 22 21:52:51 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: do you know of a CIA bot that will run on gitorious ?  if not, we'll have to run one on a clone I guess.
Jul 22 21:56:26 <rwhitby> destinal: wikis should leave searching to google and the site: keyword
Jul 22 21:59:04 <destinal> rwhitby: that works I suppose
Jul 22 22:00:31 * rwhitby gives a big thumbs up to everyone who worked on the new homepage.
Jul 22 22:09:06 <Lurking_Grue> Destinal: How is the plugin work going?
Jul 22 22:11:32 <Templarian> rwhitby: thanks.
Jul 22 22:11:44 <Templarian> And PuffTheMagic also.
Jul 22 22:12:09 <Templarian> rwhitby: I followed sugardave and made sure to give the penguin a pre.
Jul 22 22:12:18 <rwhitby> hopspitfire: thx for all the pages you have converted in the last 24 hours
Jul 22 22:12:45 * rwhitby has an RSS feed of recent changes, and it's all Templarian and hopspitfire today :-)
Jul 22 22:12:51 <destinal> Lurking_Grue: mrvc has taken the basicplugin that we'd been using as an example / demo, and copied it to a new termplugin project and is working on making it a full blown terminal.   Right now it hooks a vty and spawns a shell, and you can type commands, but not very well, and it's not very usable yet.   He's making great progress though and I hope to get a chance to add to it when I get home from work
Jul 22 22:13:47 <Lurking_Grue> Sweet!
Jul 22 22:17:52 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: i habe no experience with gitorious
Jul 22 22:18:13 <PuffTheMagic> why cant we just run our own git server
Jul 22 22:18:27 <PuffTheMagic> gitorious still requires an admin to add someone to a project
Jul 22 22:18:40 <PuffTheMagic> that is no different that someone setting up a user on a git server and adding their ssh key
Jul 22 22:18:49 <Rick_> Rick hasn't been wiki-ing today because Rick has been editing programs.
Jul 22 22:18:52 <Rick_> in four languages.
Jul 22 22:19:12 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: yeah, CIA reporting may well be the killer feature which requires our own git server.
Jul 22 22:19:41 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: running gitweb is a plus too
Jul 22 22:19:49 <PuffTheMagic> there are several modified versions
Jul 22 22:19:57 <PuffTheMagic> i run one of the modified versions on git.zen-sources.org
Jul 22 22:20:01 <PuffTheMagic> for all my kernel projects
Jul 22 22:20:12 <PuffTheMagic> it allows you to create arbitrary diff's for just about anything
Jul 22 22:20:20 <PuffTheMagic> with out a user needing git
Jul 22 22:20:23 <PuffTheMagic> shows git blame
Jul 22 22:20:32 <PuffTheMagic> you can even get snapshots via it
Jul 22 22:20:41 <PuffTheMagic> way more robust than gitorious's interface
Jul 22 22:20:49 <PuffTheMagic> though gitorious and cgit are a little prettier
Jul 22 22:20:56 <PuffTheMagic> gitweb is still most functional
Jul 22 22:21:42 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: yeah, you've convinced me.  so it's just a matter of time now.
Jul 22 22:23:49 <PuffTheMagic> mrvc__: can you please add .o and .d and .so to the .gitignore file in the term project
Jul 22 22:24:08 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: so we could host a gitweb ourselves if we want to later?
Jul 22 22:24:29 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: yes its just a cgi/perl script essentiall
Jul 22 22:24:33 <PuffTheMagic> essentially
Jul 22 22:24:45 <PuffTheMagic> pretty simple to setup
Jul 22 22:25:27 <PuffTheMagic> the version of gitweb run on repo.or.cz (the one i run on git.zen-sources.org)
Jul 22 22:25:51 <PuffTheMagic> has a feature to let users add their own ssh key
Jul 22 22:25:58 <PuffTheMagic> but i find it a pain
Jul 22 22:26:04 <PuffTheMagic> so i just admin ssh keys my self
Jul 22 22:26:08 <PuffTheMagic> it also requires a chroot
Jul 22 22:26:11 <PuffTheMagic> which is a pain
Jul 22 22:26:21 <PuffTheMagic> since the web interface adds users to /etc/passwd and what not
Jul 22 22:26:33 <PuffTheMagic> not something you really want happning on your server's root /etc/passwd
Jul 22 22:27:15 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: just run gitosis?
Jul 22 22:27:24 <PuffTheMagic> wtf is gitosis?
Jul 22 22:27:59 <PuffTheMagic> i wouldnt even bother with gitosis...
Jul 22 22:28:22 <PuffTheMagic> actually i can give you my tweaked gitweb
Jul 22 22:28:28 <rwhitby> gitosis allows certain people to admin the git user .ssh keys without having to have root on the server.
Jul 22 22:28:44 <rwhitby> we use it in openembedded
Jul 22 22:28:57 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: i would just give your "trusted" admins root access to add new users on the server
Jul 22 22:29:09 <PuffTheMagic> set the new users shell to git-shell
Jul 22 22:29:09 <route66> so have we all given up on the update today?
Jul 22 22:29:14 <PuffTheMagic> which basically is nothing
Jul 22 22:29:25 <PuffTheMagic> then add their ssh key in their home dir
Jul 22 22:29:48 * PuffTheMagic is not a fan of webinterfaces for root modification
Jul 22 22:30:03 <PuffTheMagic> and chroots just make things a pain
Jul 22 22:30:16 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: I would never allow a web interface that does root modifications on this server.  period.
Jul 22 22:30:23 <PuffTheMagic> good
Jul 22 22:30:37 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: checkout http://git.zen-sources.org/?p=zen.git;a=summary
Jul 22 22:30:44 <rwhitby> *and* I'd rather not have 300 users on the machine just cause they have commit rights.  hence gitosis.
Jul 22 22:31:03 <PuffTheMagic> well that just means using a chroot with gitweb
Jul 22 22:31:12 <PuffTheMagic> and having a private /etc/passwd in the chroot
Jul 22 22:31:15 <rwhitby> gitosis doesn't require a chroot
Jul 22 22:31:41 <PuffTheMagic> well if you can figure out how to integrate gitosis with gitweb that would be cool
Jul 22 22:31:42 <rwhitby> and the trusted git admins can be different from the trusted multi-service server admins
Jul 22 22:31:52 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: the two are orthogonal
Jul 22 22:32:54 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: orthogonal meaing they provide 2 different services?
Jul 22 22:33:14 <rwhitby> means you can have both - one doesn't influence the other
Jul 22 22:33:18 <PuffTheMagic> cool
Jul 22 22:33:23 <PuffTheMagic> i might have to checkout that out
Jul 22 22:33:40 <PuffTheMagic> .... but i still dont think "that" many people will need/want git access
Jul 22 22:33:52 <PuffTheMagic> but... im not bringing that up
Jul 22 22:33:54 <PuffTheMagic> again
Jul 22 22:34:08 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: did you have any ideas about my LED service issue
Jul 22 22:36:24 <jwm> grrr
Jul 22 22:36:31 <jwm> I got everything installed
Jul 22 22:36:36 <jwm> and palm-emulator frigging freezes
Jul 22 22:36:38 <jwm> when trying to load
Jul 22 22:36:46 <jwm> it freezes freenx too
Jul 22 22:36:47 <jwm> hehe
Jul 22 22:37:03 <jwm> never seen freenx free
Jul 22 22:37:06 <jwm> freeze
Jul 22 22:37:33 <jwm> virtualbox works fine on freenx
Jul 22 22:38:46 <Templarian> PuffTheMagic: you did the icons right?
Jul 22 22:39:13 <Rick_> going home bbl
Jul 22 22:39:52 <Templarian> (forget if it was you or sugardave)
Jul 22 22:40:51 <PuffTheMagic> Templarian: mainpage.... yeah. i had the whole nav-block template idea
Jul 22 22:41:00 <raeb> anybody use a touchstone :?
Jul 22 22:41:25 <PuffTheMagic> not yet, comtemplating it... but i hear its finicky about positioning
Jul 22 22:41:35 <gkatsev> raeb: i am
Jul 22 22:41:50 <raeb> can you charge your pre on the touchstone
Jul 22 22:41:55 <gkatsev> yep
Jul 22 22:41:55 <raeb> while its in the microsuede bag?
Jul 22 22:42:14 <gkatsev> oh, hm... i havent tried it, but i doubt it
Jul 22 22:42:14 <PuffTheMagic> ^^ doubt it
Jul 22 22:42:17 <raeb> :(
Jul 22 22:42:18 <gkatsev> let me try
Jul 22 22:43:05 <gkatsev> nope
Jul 22 22:43:07 <gkatsev> it works
Jul 22 22:43:13 <raeb> noice
Jul 22 22:43:17 <raeb> excellent
Jul 22 22:43:18 <route66> oh wow, didnt think it would work in the bag
Jul 22 22:43:31 <gkatsev> though, takes a second to get it positioned correctly
Jul 22 22:43:50 <gkatsev> well, i am assuming it does
Jul 22 22:43:55 <Templarian> PuffTheMagic: Thanks for the start... hehe. But those icons by chance can you replace the Code Repo/IRC/Resources/SDK Docs with icons.
Jul 22 22:43:57 <gkatsev> since it beeped
Jul 22 22:44:24 <Templarian> PuffTheMagic: or point me to where you got them...
Jul 22 22:44:50 <PuffTheMagic> Templarian: i didnt add "all" the icons
Jul 22 22:44:59 <PuffTheMagic> but i was using the crystal and oxygen icon sets
Jul 22 22:45:05 <PuffTheMagic> oxygen is default from kde4
Jul 22 22:45:11 <PuffTheMagic> and crystal is on kde-look.org
Jul 22 22:45:26 <PuffTheMagic> but i dont care what is used
Jul 22 22:45:36 <PuffTheMagic> i just didnt feel like making icons from scratch
Jul 22 22:46:28 <jwm> I was wondering if the touchstone works with all those clip/outside cases things
Jul 22 22:47:20 <FreeTim3> I was wondering if the Touchstone will work with a double size battery, or if the makers of a double-size battery will make an adapted cover for use with Touchstone
Jul 22 22:47:40 <FreeTim3> Ideally, a 2x  bigger battery AND a touchstone back cover
Jul 22 22:48:29 <destinal> FreeTim3: what about a 12x or more battery, maybe a car battery you can just strap your pre to
Jul 22 22:48:38 <raeb> rofl
Jul 22 22:48:39 <jwm> hehe
Jul 22 22:48:43 <jwm> I'd buy that!
Jul 22 22:49:14 <raeb> i know
Jul 22 22:49:20 <raeb> make EVERY SURFACE induction capable
Jul 22 22:49:22 <raeb> including your pants
Jul 22 22:50:06 <raeb> why can't it be powered by earths magnetic field?
Jul 22 22:50:20 <raeb> the field doesn't invert often enoughj? :D
Jul 22 22:50:21 <destinal> ah, yeah, the touchbrick, a car battery with an integrated induction charger and holds the pre magnetically, now I've created a product
Jul 22 22:50:52 <destinal> just put a shoulder strap on it and you're mobile
Jul 22 22:50:58 <FreeTim3> @destinal as long as the darn phone makes it to lunchtime each day, I'll be happy.  And yes, I'm using it all the time.  I'm addicted!
Jul 22 22:51:18 <gkatsev> raeb: i think it heats up a lot more when charging inside the cloth
Jul 22 22:51:27 <raeb> oooo
Jul 22 22:51:30 <raeb> i hadn't considered that
Jul 22 22:51:39 <destinal> ah, insulators
Jul 22 22:51:40 <raeb> i wonder what palm's official stance is on that
Jul 22 22:51:45 <gkatsev> well, its been sitting there charging for the past 10 minutes
Jul 22 22:51:51 <raeb> does it say in the manual to take it out of any case?
Jul 22 22:51:56 <gkatsev> and it feels hotter than it wouldve otherwise
Jul 22 22:52:19 <destinal> FreeTim3: mine with the original battery lasts all day, but if I use it for a few hours of browsing I have to charge it
Jul 22 22:52:43 <destinal> but with just calls and casual IM and occasional data use it lasts all day
Jul 22 22:52:57 <FreeTim3> Ya. It's like a wind up toy that only stores half a turn on the spring
Jul 22 22:53:20 <destinal> but when you think a laptop only lasts a few hours of constant use usually...
Jul 22 22:53:22 <raeb> with enough gear reduction you can make that half turn on the spring last forever
Jul 22 22:53:30 <raeb> which i guess means
Jul 22 22:53:33 <raeb> stop using your phone
Jul 22 22:53:39 <raeb> /shrug
Jul 22 22:54:14 <destinal> in all seriousness external induction charging batteries are a good idea
Jul 22 22:54:42 <destinal> just I can't imagine putting a 2x battery on my phone and needing another backplate, making it bulkier, etc
Jul 22 22:54:45 <raeb> a battery to charge the battery
Jul 22 22:55:00 <destinal> raeb: right, rather than having to pull open and swap
Jul 22 22:55:10 <destinal> I know there's some inefficiency in the transfer though
Jul 22 22:55:16 <destinal> so maybe not a good idea
Jul 22 22:55:26 <raeb> well
Jul 22 22:55:39 <raeb> if its heavy its likely immobile
Jul 22 22:55:47 <raeb> and if its immobile, why not just plug it in
Jul 22 22:55:49 <raeb> tis why i say
Jul 22 22:55:53 <raeb> we need an induction charging standard
Jul 22 22:55:56 <destinal> well the car battery was a joke
Jul 22 22:55:58 <destinal> :P
Jul 22 22:55:59 <raeb> then make more surfaces compatible
Jul 22 22:56:08 <raeb> i've seen the emergency battery charge packs
Jul 22 22:56:08 <destinal> nothing that heavy
Jul 22 22:56:16 <raeb> that charge your cellphone if your not near power
Jul 22 22:56:17 <destinal> yeah good point
Jul 22 22:56:29 <destinal> but then you have to sit there
Jul 22 22:56:35 <destinal> if its immobile
Jul 22 22:56:41 <raeb> yeah these weren't stationary
Jul 22 22:56:43 <PuffTheMagic> ??? 2x battery
Jul 22 22:56:45 <raeb> but they weren't pocket sized
Jul 22 22:56:55 <PuffTheMagic> i thought the replacement batter that that one site had was equal size
Jul 22 22:56:58 <destinal> PuffTheMagic:  I dunno I was responding to someone who used that number
Jul 22 22:57:15 <raeb> if equal size has more hours, then bring it on
Jul 22 22:57:18 <PuffTheMagic> there is one place that makes a battery w/ 20% capacity and it is eual size
Jul 22 22:57:22 <PuffTheMagic> idk about any other battery
Jul 22 22:57:29 <PuffTheMagic> 120%
Jul 22 22:57:31 <raeb> i dont want sploding batries tho
Jul 22 22:57:32 <PuffTheMagic> 20% more
Jul 22 22:57:50 <PuffTheMagic> i dont really think the battery / battery life is an issue
Jul 22 22:58:08 <raeb> i vote standardizing and implementing more induction surfaces!
Jul 22 22:58:08 <PuffTheMagic> power saving improves galore will be on their way
Jul 22 22:58:34 <raeb> somebody has hydrogen fuel cell batteries.....
Jul 22 22:58:39 <raeb> but i dont think they're easily recharged
Jul 22 22:58:47 <raeb> have to refil with hydrogen
Jul 22 22:58:56 <destinal> so get a hydrolizer
Jul 22 22:58:57 <raeb> i dont have a usb -> hydrogen converter
Jul 22 22:59:10 <destinal> split apart some water
Jul 22 22:59:11 <raeb> unless thats an option in the bios....
Jul 22 22:59:19 <raeb> yeah, thats definately not mobile
Jul 22 22:59:19 <PuffTheMagic> yay i got the led thing working better :D
Jul 22 22:59:31 <raeb> takes electricity to split water
Jul 22 22:59:32 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: cool
Jul 22 22:59:39 <PuffTheMagic> better as in 99%
Jul 22 22:59:44 <raeb> hydrogen wants more lectron!
Jul 22 22:59:50 * jwm takes his gun out at virtualbox/palm-emulator
Jul 22 22:59:56 <PuffTheMagic> i dont get a the right return value for values that are out of range
Jul 22 22:59:57 <raeb> ROFL
Jul 22 22:59:59 <raeb> @ jwm
Jul 22 23:00:01 <PuffTheMagic> but it set the CORRECT value now
Jul 22 23:00:04 <jwm> man
Jul 22 23:00:07 <destinal> jwm: what issues?
Jul 22 23:00:11 <jwm> I've never seen anything freeze freenx
Jul 22 23:00:14 <jwm> it freezes now
Jul 22 23:00:23 <jwm> not virtualbox
Jul 22 23:00:30 <jwm> just palm-emu
Jul 22 23:00:50 <destinal> jwm: are you running sun's java jre?
Jul 22 23:00:53 <destinal> 1.6
Jul 22 23:01:05 <destinal> not some pseudocompatible one
Jul 22 23:01:25 <jwm> yeo
Jul 22 23:01:27 <raeb> i installed jdk just to be safe
Jul 22 23:01:27 <jwm> yep
Jul 22 23:02:07 <destinal> weir
Jul 22 23:02:09 <destinal> d
Jul 22 23:02:27 <raeb> brb store
Jul 22 23:03:07 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: i think the default file write action in Java is to append if the file exists so everything i set had a 0 in front
Jul 22 23:03:20 <PuffTheMagic> but i set append to false and it works now
Jul 22 23:03:21 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Jul 22 23:03:42 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: you're just writing to the files in the sysfs directly in java calls then?
Jul 22 23:04:34 <PuffTheMagic> yeah
Jul 22 23:04:35 <destinal> I still haven't pulled the repo
Jul 22 23:04:37 <destinal> got busy
Jul 22 23:04:38 <PuffTheMagic> there is no libsysfs for java
Jul 22 23:04:41 <PuffTheMagic> that i know of
Jul 22 23:05:59 <jwm> I ran strace on palm-emulator
Jul 22 23:06:04 <jwm> it doesn't tell me anything really
Jul 22 23:06:05 <jwm> hehe
Jul 22 23:06:16 <jwm> palm-emulator just hangs before loading up virtualbox
Jul 22 23:06:26 <jwm> takes down freenx with it
Jul 22 23:06:44 <destinal> have you found out the jar that calls and java -jar   whatever from cmdline?
Jul 22 23:06:56 <jwm> yeah, I get no errors
Jul 22 23:07:04 <jwm> it just sits there
Jul 22 23:07:09 <destinal> curiouser and curiouser
Jul 22 23:07:23 <jwm> when I didn't have virtualbox in /usr/bin it gave me the good ole no virtualbox 2.2.0 or greater found
Jul 22 23:07:26 <jwm> but I fixed that
Jul 22 23:07:31 <jwm> and now no errors just freezes
Jul 22 23:07:39 <destinal> did you get the binary virtualbox from their site?
Jul 22 23:07:48 <jwm> I used gentoo's emerge of the binary
Jul 22 23:07:56 <jwm> emerge virtualbox-bin
Jul 22 23:08:06 <jwm> 2.2.4
Jul 22 23:08:09 <PuffTheMagic> jwm: use 3.x
Jul 22 23:08:17 <PuffTheMagic> from portage
Jul 22 23:08:21 <PuffTheMagic> now that its in there
Jul 22 23:08:34 <jwm> is it in there?
Jul 22 23:08:35 <PuffTheMagic> i've got 3.x from some overlay and that worked fine too
Jul 22 23:08:38 <jwm> I only see 2.2.4
Jul 22 23:08:39 <PuffTheMagic> yeah its there
Jul 22 23:08:44 <PuffTheMagic> well then grab it from an overlay
Jul 22 23:08:50 <PuffTheMagic> someone told me yesterday that it was in portage
Jul 22 23:08:53 <PuffTheMagic> maybe its masked idk
Jul 22 23:09:00 <jwm> I don't see the ebuild
Jul 22 23:09:01 <jwm> but ok
Jul 22 23:09:03 <PuffTheMagic> but 3.x exists in a few overlays at least
Jul 22 23:09:09 <PuffTheMagic> let me find which one im useing
Jul 22 23:09:27 <jwm> ok, I'll be driving home
Jul 22 23:09:30 <PuffTheMagic> 2.x didnt work with 2.6.31-rc*
Jul 22 23:09:34 <jwm> so I'll talk to you in a bit
Jul 22 23:09:37 <PuffTheMagic> do i needed 3.x
Jul 22 23:09:37 <jwm> it didn't?
Jul 22 23:09:38 <jwm> cool
Jul 22 23:09:44 <jwm> virtualbox runs fine on its own
Jul 22 23:09:46 <PuffTheMagic> jwm: k
Jul 22 23:09:48 <jwm> palm-emulator just doesn't launch it
Jul 22 23:09:53 <PuffTheMagic> thats odd
Jul 22 23:09:59 <PuffTheMagic> jwm: java 5 or java 6?
Jul 22 23:10:03 <jwm> 6
Jul 22 23:10:08 <jwm> I have the latest jdk installed
Jul 22 23:10:10 <jwm> 32bit
Jul 22 23:10:12 <PuffTheMagic> thats what im using
Jul 22 23:10:15 <PuffTheMagic> but try 5 just in case
Jul 22 23:10:24 <PuffTheMagic> jwm: wait like 3 second
Jul 22 23:10:30 <PuffTheMagic> cause i might be out latter when u get back
Jul 22 23:10:35 <PuffTheMagic> i will have the overlay name in a sec
Jul 22 23:10:35 <jwm> hehe
Jul 22 23:10:38 <jwm> that's cool
Jul 22 23:10:41 <jwm> I am not closing this client
Jul 22 23:10:45 <jwm> so I appreciate it
Jul 22 23:10:46 <PuffTheMagic> ooooh
Jul 22 23:10:53 <jwm> this runs on my server
Jul 22 23:10:54 <jwm> 24/7
Jul 22 23:10:56 <PuffTheMagic> i use quassel on a remote core
Jul 22 23:11:02 <PuffTheMagic> i dont miss anything
Jul 22 23:11:06 <PuffTheMagic> quassel ftw!
Jul 22 23:25:02 <PreGame> so i am stuck on my app
Jul 22 23:25:12 <PreGame> trying to figure out how i should do this
Jul 22 23:25:41 <PreGame> it is an on pre application installer that is a standalone app so you don't have to be around a pc to install an application
Jul 22 23:26:04 <PreGame> i'm tired of having to wait until i get home to test out someones application
Jul 22 23:26:35 <PreGame> the only thing is palm's copy/paste feature sucks! especially compared to the new iphone 3gs
Jul 22 23:26:52 <PreGame> you can only copy/paste text in a text box which is gay
Jul 22 23:27:05 <PreGame> so i was thinking of creating a list of apps listed on the precentral site
Jul 22 23:27:18 <PreGame> however they don't show the direct download link
Jul 22 23:28:06 <james_> if the webos is linux does that mean you could install these: http://tuxmobil.org/pda_linux_apps_java.html
Jul 22 23:32:21 <PuffTheMagic> james_: you can install just about "everything" on the pre
Jul 22 23:32:27 <PuffTheMagic> and runit outside of Luna
Jul 22 23:34:54 <james_> doesn't seem very practical then
Jul 22 23:35:05 <james_> but interesting, thanks
Jul 22 23:36:44 <Robi_> PreGame: yeah the ui is slower too, copy/paste needs several attempts to do what u want it to...  we could clone the functionality but it's not that great either, could be improved a bunch
Jul 22 23:41:42 <PuffTheMagic> james_: i didnt look at the actual link, im just sayin... you could put ubuntu on the phone if you didnt care about the phone aspect of it
Jul 22 23:41:59 <PuffTheMagic> but if you want to say within the Luna interface... there is work to be done
Jul 22 23:42:25 * PuffTheMagic add some Tia Maria to his coffee and goes back to fixing LEDService
Jul 22 23:43:51 <james_> haha
Jul 22 23:43:55 <james_> who needs a netbook then
Jul 22 23:43:57 <james_> :P
Jul 22 23:44:04 <raeb> mmm tia mowry
Jul 22 23:50:09 <JackieRipper> jwm: app-emulation/virtualbox-bin-3.0.2 is in portage, but it's ~arch
Jul 22 23:51:40 <destinal> PreGame: why not work on an app to install from preware?
Jul 22 23:51:51 <seigex> its about that time.. start my all grani
Jul 22 23:51:53 <seigex> grain*
Jul 22 23:53:12 <PuffTheMagic> JackieRipper: you dont run arch?
Jul 22 23:53:23 <PuffTheMagic> or was that for jwm?
Jul 22 23:53:31 <JackieRipper> for jwm
Jul 22 23:53:31 <PuffTheMagic> i mean ~arch
Jul 22 23:53:58 <PuffTheMagic> i dont know how people dont run ~arch
Jul 22 23:54:01 <PuffTheMagic> arch is so old
Jul 22 23:54:02 <JackieRipper> I do run arch, but since jwm couldn't see it, I thought perhaps it was because of ~arch
Jul 22 23:54:09 <JackieRipper> er ~arch
Jul 22 23:54:18 <PuffTheMagic> yeah its like impossible to run arch
Jul 22 23:54:45 <JackieRipper> ~amd64 + 4 or 5 overlays, including my own
Jul 22 23:54:46 <PuffTheMagic> ~arch isnt unstable... it just means thing might not compile, which does not mean they will segfault
Jul 22 23:54:58 <PuffTheMagic> or crash
Jul 22 23:55:05 <JackieRipper> well
Jul 22 23:55:15 <JackieRipper> it just means they are not fully tested
Jul 22 23:55:33 <JackieRipper> so they may crash, but it's much more likely they won't compile
Jul 22 23:55:35 <PuffTheMagic> yeah but many people associate with ~arch with unstable... which just isnt true
Jul 22 23:55:46 <jwm> back
Jul 22 23:55:59 <PuffTheMagic> jwm: see above
Jul 22 23:56:03 <JackieRipper> actually, I would associate it with Debian's "unstable"
Jul 22 23:56:10 <jwm> I run ~amd64
Jul 22 23:56:23 <jwm> ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~amd64"
Jul 22 23:56:27 <jwm> I've never run gentoo without that
Jul 22 23:56:28 <jwm> heh
Jul 22 23:56:38 <JackieRipper> has it been a while since you ran emerge --sync ?
Jul 22 23:56:43 <jwm> nope
Jul 22 23:56:48 <JackieRipper> /usr/portage/app-emulation/virtualbox-bin/virtualbox-bin-3.0.2.ebuild
Jul 22 23:56:53 <JackieRipper> July 16
Jul 22 23:56:53 <jwm> let me check again, I ran sync just an hour ago
Jul 22 23:56:58 <jwm> ahh
Jul 22 23:57:00 <jwm> that makes sense
Jul 22 23:57:02 <jwm> it JUST came out
Jul 22 23:57:03 <jwm> hah
Jul 22 23:57:10 <JackieRipper> almost a week now
Jul 22 23:57:26 <jwm> I typically run sync before updating
Jul 22 23:57:33 <jwm> just coincidence I didn't do it this time
Jul 22 23:57:52 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Jul 22 23:57:56 <PuffTheMagic> happens to us all
Jul 22 23:58:17 <jwm> I want to know what virtualbox settings palm uses
Jul 22 23:58:26 <jwm> because virtualbox and kvm fail just about the same way
Jul 22 23:58:33 <jwm> with the images
Jul 23 00:00:00 <PuffTheMagic> LEDService is all working not
Jul 23 00:00:01 <PuffTheMagic> FYI
Jul 23 00:00:21 <JackieRipper> virtulbox fails?
Jul 23 00:00:21 <PuffTheMagic> s/not/now/
Jul 23 00:00:41 <jwm> well
Jul 23 00:00:53 <jwm> I believe it is because of the video selection
Jul 23 00:01:06 <jwm> when I run virtualbox and add the grub.iso and vmdk manually
Jul 23 00:01:12 <jwm> with 2.2.4 taht is
Jul 23 00:01:13 <jwm> that
Jul 23 00:01:19 <jwm> I'll try 3.x now
Jul 23 00:01:34 <rwhitby> Is http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Setup_SFTP now obsolete do to the optware-bootstrap.sh script?
Jul 23 00:01:49 <PuffTheMagic> jwm: seriously.... figure out why palm-emulator is freezing
Jul 23 00:01:57 <PuffTheMagic> dont bother with the manual vbox setup
Jul 23 00:02:03 <PuffTheMagic> its not worth it
Jul 23 00:02:21 <JackieRipper> rwhitby: yes, except for the last code box
Jul 23 00:02:41 <JackieRipper> the directions for setting up WinSCP
Jul 23 00:06:14 <destinal> if you do manual vbox setup then you've got to add a bunch of custom lines to your xml for port forwarding and really it's rather annoying
Jul 23 00:06:40 <jwm> do you have to put in guest additions?
Jul 23 00:06:47 <destinal> no
Jul 23 00:06:48 <rwhitby> destinal: let alone the video setup
Jul 23 00:06:54 <destinal> rwhitby: yeah
Jul 23 00:07:05 <destinal> plus with palm-emulator if you ever hurt your vm you can just delete it from vbox, run palm-emulator again and poof, its back
Jul 23 00:07:29 <jwm> hehe
Jul 23 00:07:32 <jwm> I know
Jul 23 00:07:37 <jwm> I am just desperate
Jul 23 00:08:11 <destinal> do any of the other palm-* tools work?
Jul 23 00:08:19 <destinal> palm-generate, palm-package, etc
Jul 23 00:08:23 <jwm> yeah, all of them
Jul 23 00:08:55 <destinal> so if I had to guess I'd say it was a vbox issue
Jul 23 00:08:56 <destinal> hmm
Jul 23 00:09:09 <jwm> well
Jul 23 00:09:13 <jwm> vbox works fine when I just run it
Jul 23 00:09:15 <destinal> have you tried downloading the vbox binary package from virtualbox.ogr?
Jul 23 00:09:16 <destinal> org
Jul 23 00:09:21 <jwm> not yet
Jul 23 00:09:29 <jwm> I haven't gotten the 3.x version loaded yet
Jul 23 00:09:34 <jwm> but the bin package is the same I thought
Jul 23 00:09:41 <destinal> I used the 3.x version off that web site successfully
Jul 23 00:10:39 <destinal> jwm: haven't tried gentoo's bin
Jul 23 00:10:51 <destinal> PuffTheMagic apparently had and it worked
Jul 23 00:11:09 <jwm> hehe yeah
Jul 23 00:11:14 <jwm> I think it has something to do with the java
Jul 23 00:11:20 <jwm> I had a hell of a time getting java to run it
Jul 23 00:11:20 <destinal> yeah I think so
Jul 23 00:11:27 <jwm> I had to install all of the emul-linux ones
Jul 23 00:11:45 <destinal> remembering the time I had a problem with my palm-emulator not working it was java actually, and the screen wouldn't even load
Jul 23 00:12:09 <jwm> what's crazy is it is bringing down the X interface
Jul 23 00:12:13 <jwm> freenx in this case
Jul 23 00:12:21 <jwm> I might try cygwin/X on windows
Jul 23 00:12:24 <destinal> that is definitely a new one on me
Jul 23 00:12:31 <jwm> yeah, I've never had problems with freenx
Jul 23 00:12:32 <jwm> heh
Jul 23 00:12:45 <jwm> even with 3.x it does it
Jul 23 00:13:01 <jwm> if I understand strace better I might be able to figure it out
Jul 23 00:13:13 <jwm> understood geez
Jul 23 00:13:15 <jwm> I am tired heh
Jul 23 00:14:10 <destinal> well, good luck with it, I have to drive home now
Jul 23 00:14:17 <rwhitby> jwm: have you checked the webOS developer forums for FAQs on Gentoo installation?
Jul 23 00:14:18 <destinal> bbl
Jul 23 00:14:39 <rwhitby> I know there's a Suse one there - could be others.
Jul 23 00:15:19 <jwm> yeah I did
Jul 23 00:15:25 <jwm> I found the suse one only heh
Jul 23 00:15:39 <jwm> what sucks is that puff runs gentoo and it works for him
Jul 23 00:15:45 <jwm> and he's using the emul java sdk
Jul 23 00:18:12 <jwm> I hate java
Jul 23 00:18:13 <jwm> heh
Jul 23 00:21:15 <jwm> maybe if I get this crap working I'll write a howto
Jul 23 00:21:29 <jwm> howto not fuck up on the install of the emulator on linux
Jul 23 00:21:31 <jwm> heh
Jul 23 00:21:42 <JackieRipper> jwm: it's also workign fine for me on gentoo
Jul 23 00:21:50 <jwm> nice
Jul 23 00:21:56 <jwm> add injury to insult :)
Jul 23 00:22:02 <nebula> boo
Jul 23 00:22:14 <jwm> er insult to injury even
Jul 23 00:22:23 <JackieRipper> :)
Jul 23 00:22:27 <jwm> have you tried running it under freenx, vnc, rdp..
Jul 23 00:22:40 <JackieRipper> use alien, not deb2tgz
Jul 23 00:22:45 <jwm> heh
Jul 23 00:22:57 <jwm> I saw some people used deb2tgz fine
Jul 23 00:23:01 <JackieRipper> alien -t --scripts xxx.deb
Jul 23 00:23:25 <jwm> what does -t --scripts do ?
Jul 23 00:23:27 <jwm> stop the scripts?
Jul 23 00:23:28 <JackieRipper> make sure you run it as root
Jul 23 00:23:33 <jwm> if so then it's just like using deb2tgz
Jul 23 00:23:38 <JackieRipper> --scripts enables scripts
Jul 23 00:23:46 <jwm> ohh
Jul 23 00:23:51 <jwm> what scripts are there?
Jul 23 00:23:53 <jwm> or do you know
Jul 23 00:24:08 <JackieRipper> not sure.. but when I ran it without, it complained
Jul 23 00:24:22 <JackieRipper> what error are you getting?
Jul 23 00:24:33 <jwm> none
Jul 23 00:24:35 <jwm> that is the thing
Jul 23 00:24:36 <jwm> no error
Jul 23 00:24:40 <jwm> just freezes
Jul 23 00:24:43 <JackieRipper> what's happening?
Jul 23 00:24:45 <JackieRipper> ahhh
Jul 23 00:24:56 <jwm> doesn't launch virtualbox before freezing
Jul 23 00:25:01 <JackieRipper> how are you starting it?
Jul 23 00:25:12 <jwm> palm-emulator
Jul 23 00:27:10 <JackieRipper> works for me using both sun-jdk-1.6 and emul-linux-x86-java-1.6
Jul 23 00:28:51 <JackieRipper> hmmm
Jul 23 00:29:03 <JackieRipper> actually, I'm missing the gesture area
Jul 23 00:29:39 <jwm> hehe
Jul 23 00:29:48 <jwm> can you type eselect java-vm list
Jul 23 00:29:57 <jwm> it won't work with sun-jdk-1.6
Jul 23 00:30:00 <jcrawford> i wish my boss was not such a Fedora Junkie
Jul 23 00:30:00 <jwm> since it's 64bit for me
Jul 23 00:30:10 <jwm> I hate rpm based distros
Jul 23 00:30:12 <jcrawford> would love to have Debian or Ubuntu on the workstation @ work heh
Jul 23 00:30:23 <jcrawford> he loves them
Jul 23 00:30:27 <JackieRipper> it's also 64bit for me
Jul 23 00:30:29 <jwm> I hate deb based too hehe
Jul 23 00:30:38 <jcrawford> says he would rather leave it to the repos to deal with conflicts
Jul 23 00:31:04 <jwm> heh
Jul 23 00:31:11 <jwm> that is what a distro does anyway
Jul 23 00:31:15 <jwm> no matter what distro it is
Jul 23 00:32:37 <jcrawford> and dependencies
Jul 23 00:42:21 <jwm> hmm
Jul 23 00:42:51 <PreGame> is that the tip calculator jwm?
Jul 23 00:43:06 <PreGame> the mcscrooge?
Jul 23 00:43:22 <PuffTheMagic> jwm: yo
Jul 23 00:43:41 <PuffTheMagic> what exactly freezes when you run the emulator
Jul 23 00:43:45 <PuffTheMagic> is all of X frozen
Jul 23 00:43:57 <PuffTheMagic> is it a hardlock/softlock
Jul 23 00:44:04 <PreGame> when i run the camera in emulator it freezes
Jul 23 00:44:08 <PuffTheMagic> is it just the java palm-emulator
Jul 23 00:45:55 <PuffTheMagic> if palm-emulator is freezing it has nothing to do with vbox
Jul 23 00:46:10 <PuffTheMagic> jwm: are you using icedtea or sun java vm
Jul 23 00:47:07 <jwm> I get a permission denied when I run it now
Jul 23 00:47:16 <jwm> java.io permission denied
Jul 23 00:47:19 <jwm> I installed cygwin X
Jul 23 00:47:24 <jwm> and output it to there
Jul 23 00:47:43 <jwm> PuffTheMagic: yeah, it has nothing to do with virtualbox
Jul 23 00:47:46 <jwm> it doesn't get that far
Jul 23 00:47:52 <jwm> it's just palm-emulator
Jul 23 00:48:02 <jwm> do I need write access to anything under /opt/PalmSDK ?
Jul 23 00:48:02 <PuffTheMagic> what java-vm?
Jul 23 00:48:03 <jwm> like the vmdk
Jul 23 00:48:04 <JackieRipper> jwm: add yourself to the vboxusers group and start a new shell
Jul 23 00:48:09 <jwm> I did
Jul 23 00:48:11 <jwm> long time ago
Jul 23 00:48:11 <jwm> hehe
Jul 23 00:48:17 <jwm> but vboxusers doesn't own that vmdk
Jul 23 00:48:23 <jwm> maybe that is something the script does :)
Jul 23 00:48:28 <PuffTheMagic> what java-vm???????????????/
Jul 23 00:48:37 <jwm> the emul-linux-sun-jdk
Jul 23 00:48:44 <PuffTheMagic> emul?
Jul 23 00:48:46 <jwm> I've already said that ten times
Jul 23 00:48:46 <jwm> heh
Jul 23 00:48:50 <jwm> that's the 32bit sun jdk
Jul 23 00:48:51 <jwm> 1.6
Jul 23 00:49:00 <jwm> 1.6.0.14
Jul 23 00:49:02 <jwm> latest
Jul 23 00:49:09 <jwm> yeah, it won't run with 64bit
Jul 23 00:49:13 <PuffTheMagic> did you try "linux32 palm-emulator"
Jul 23 00:49:15 <jwm> I get a 32bit swt error
Jul 23 00:49:37 <JackieRipper> odd
Jul 23 00:49:43 <JackieRipper> I don't get that error
Jul 23 00:49:52 <jwm> eselect java-vm list
Jul 23 00:50:03 <jwm> java.io.IOException: error=13, Permission denied
Jul 23 00:50:09 <jwm> let me fix some permissions here
Jul 23 00:50:32 <PuffTheMagic> "linux32 palm-emulator" ???
Jul 23 00:50:39 <JackieRipper> PuffTheMagic: do you have a gesture area in the emulator?
Jul 23 00:50:50 <PuffTheMagic> JackieRipper: no
Jul 23 00:50:54 <PuffTheMagic> just use the mouse
Jul 23 00:51:00 <jwm> I did that puff, it didn't do anything different
Jul 23 00:51:13 <JackieRipper> yeah, but how do you do "back"?
Jul 23 00:51:45 <JackieRipper> my emulator ends where the visible screen ends
Jul 23 00:52:15 <JackieRipper> I know there's no touch screen, but I don't have a center button to click with the mouse, and no way to do the back gesture
Jul 23 00:53:48 <jwm> heh
Jul 23 00:53:51 <jwm> I got it working as root
Jul 23 00:53:53 <jwm> just not jwm
Jul 23 00:53:56 <jwm> er my user :)
Jul 23 00:54:03 <jwm> I had to setup cygwin though
Jul 23 00:54:16 <JackieRipper> is it possible your group add hasn't taken?
Jul 23 00:54:35 <JackieRipper> I thought you were running on gentoo?
Jul 23 00:54:42 <jwm> I am
Jul 23 00:54:45 <jwm> I just edit /etc/group
Jul 23 00:54:59 <JackieRipper> yes, but that doesn't affect existing shells
Jul 23 00:55:08 <jwm> I've logged in a thousand times since then
Jul 23 00:55:10 <jwm> heh
Jul 23 00:55:30 <JackieRipper> and running groups returns that group?
Jul 23 00:55:39 <PuffTheMagic> well this should probably be moved to #gentoo-java
Jul 23 00:55:42 <PuffTheMagic> or #gentoo
Jul 23 00:55:46 <jwm> yep
Jul 23 00:55:57 <jwm> it's working now
Jul 23 00:56:02 <jwm> so it's not java
Jul 23 00:56:04 <jwm> it's not gentoo
Jul 23 00:56:09 <jwm> it's just the emulator heh
Jul 23 00:56:15 <jwm> and my funky settings
Jul 23 00:56:24 <jwm> did you use alien or deb2tgz when you installed it?
Jul 23 00:56:42 <JackieRipper> alien as root
Jul 23 00:56:45 <jwm> this is more of getting the emulator to work under freenx
Jul 23 00:56:58 <jwm> which is a good #webos-internal topic
Jul 23 00:57:20 <JackieRipper> running as root is important, as the permissions/owners/groups need to be preserved
Jul 23 00:57:33 <PuffTheMagic> this isnt a permissions thing
Jul 23 00:57:47 <PuffTheMagic> this is related to emul- java-vm
Jul 23 00:57:48 <jwm> well, it is and it isn't
Jul 23 00:57:51 <PuffTheMagic> or other issues
Jul 23 00:57:53 <jwm> um, it's working now
Jul 23 00:57:57 <PuffTheMagic> cause java-emulator is a java app
Jul 23 00:58:01 <PuffTheMagic> and that is what is failing
Jul 23 00:58:05 <jwm> it's all working now
Jul 23 00:58:06 <JackieRipper> do you have a gesture area and center button?
Jul 23 00:58:22 <PuffTheMagic> what did I miss? what did you fix
Jul 23 00:58:35 <jwm> I installed cygwin on my desktop
Jul 23 00:58:41 <PuffTheMagic> JackieRipper: ther is none, use Esc to bring emulate pushing that button
Jul 23 00:58:46 <jwm> and I ran palm-emulator as root
Jul 23 00:58:59 <jwm> so it has a problem with 1) freenx 2) permissions
Jul 23 00:59:35 <JackieRipper> PuffTheMagic: Is there a way to emulate "back"?
Jul 23 00:59:42 <jwm> I've been using nix for about 12 years now heh
Jul 23 00:59:43 <PuffTheMagic> nfc
Jul 23 00:59:48 <PuffTheMagic> yeah
Jul 23 01:00:01 <PuffTheMagic> actually idk
Jul 23 01:00:10 <PuffTheMagic> read the docs
Jul 23 01:00:15 <JackieRipper> :)
Jul 23 01:01:19 <JackieRipper> looks like esc does that, too
Jul 23 01:10:39 <jwm> I got even further this time
Jul 23 01:10:41 <jwm> with freenx
Jul 23 01:10:47 <jwm> got the vbox acceptance agreement
Jul 23 01:10:50 <jwm> then it crashed
Jul 23 01:10:50 <jwm> hehe
Jul 23 01:22:57 <jwm> it's weird
Jul 23 01:23:07 <jwm> I have to disconnect session then resume session in freenx
Jul 23 01:23:09 <jwm> and it works
Jul 23 01:23:42 <jwm> hmm
Jul 23 01:24:26 <jwm> works great now under  freenx
Jul 23 01:24:27 <jwm> geez
Jul 23 01:24:35 <X1011> how can we implement interwiki links in the wiki? i don't want to captcha every time i link to Wikipedia
Jul 23 01:26:15 <jwm> at last a working webos emulator under gentoo linux + freenx hehe
Jul 23 01:27:23 <jwm> I'd love to learn how palm-emulator calls virtualbox so I could dump it for kvm
Jul 23 01:27:27 <jwm> but ohh well
Jul 23 01:30:28 <Rick__> X1011,  interwiki links are supported by mediawiki out of the box.
Jul 23 01:30:36 <Rick__> I just confirmed that they work on webos-internals
Jul 23 01:30:58 <X1011> o, ok, what's the syntax?
Jul 23 01:31:08 <Rick__> like [[wikipedia:toochain]]  == works fine, saves, no captcha
Jul 23 01:31:18 <Rick__> tollchain
Jul 23 01:31:20 <Rick__> toolchain
Jul 23 01:31:23 <Rick__> gaaaaaaa
Jul 23 01:31:54 <Rick__> and by golly, if you had typed "interwiki" into the help page it would have shown you.  :)  search is your friend
Jul 23 01:33:29 <X1011> Rick_: ? this returns no results: http://webos-internals.org/wiki/Special:Search?ns0=1&ns4=1&ns8=1&ns12=1&search=interwiki&searchx=Search
Jul 23 01:34:12 <X1011> err, 1 result, but not helpful
Jul 23 01:35:23 <X1011> i'll have to add it to one of the help pages; every wiki has a different syntax
Jul 23 01:35:46 <Rick__> don't bother
Jul 23 01:36:05 <X1011> or at least, i'm used to just wp:
Jul 23 01:36:06 <Rick__> I'll go get the help cascade of pages from mediawiki and dump it into ours in a bulk download and upload.
Jul 23 01:36:19 <X1011> ah, cool
Jul 23 01:36:23 <Rick__> I'm very sorry I typed it into the mediawiki help
Jul 23 01:36:29 <Rick__> I'll go get their help.
Jul 23 01:39:26 <Rick__> X1011,  go try it now...
Jul 23 01:39:30 <Rick__> :)
Jul 23 01:41:19 <Rick__> well crud puppies.  oddly interwiki isn't included in their help category.  :-)
Jul 23 01:41:27 <Rick__> transclusion is, which is a cool thing and all, but still
Jul 23 01:41:30 <Rick__> Off to get more pages.
Jul 23 01:44:04 <Rick__> X1011,  bingo
Jul 23 01:45:18 <jwm> boy I've got it working great under freenx now
Jul 23 01:45:20 <X1011> thx
Jul 23 01:50:56 <PuffTheMagic> jwm: why are you using freenx
Jul 23 01:52:00 <jwm> because I have a dev server
Jul 23 01:52:11 <jwm> and a group of developers that use the dev server
Jul 23 01:52:33 <jwm> and I emulate several different systems including a mac on it and we use vnc/freenx
Jul 23 01:52:40 <jwm> freenx is really nice
Jul 23 01:52:44 <Rick__> Templarian,  -- hopspitfire -- Matt Conner has finished converting all but two of the pages off the old wiki!!!!
Jul 23 01:53:17 <Rick__> That guy really was hopping, spitting fire  !!! wow.
Jul 23 01:54:13 <Rick__> but there's 105 orphans.  :-(
Jul 23 01:54:43 <Rick__> Templarian,  rwhitby  shall I just dump them in Misc for now until we can get them sorted?
Jul 23 01:54:54 <Templarian> Rick__: awesome.
Jul 23 01:55:03 <Rick__> nodnod
Jul 23 01:55:20 <Templarian> Rick__: yea, sure. Just make sure the naming scheme is right.
Jul 23 01:55:33 <Rick__> k
Jul 23 01:55:58 <Rick__> if we move, we're leaving the old redirect tho, 'cause otherwise the redirect from the OLD wiki is broken.  Right?
Jul 23 01:56:47 <Templarian> Rick__: technically it can be corrected I've done it a few times.
Jul 23 01:57:10 <Rick__> technically it can.  but why?
Jul 23 01:57:21 <jwm> broken links!
Jul 23 01:57:31 <jwm> hehe
Jul 23 01:57:37 <Rick__> also,  what happend to "patches to existing applications."  ?  which used to be on the linux page...  where is that now?
Jul 23 01:58:00 <PuffTheMagic> Source Patches
Jul 23 01:58:01 <Templarian> Rick__: dunno check the log.
Jul 23 01:58:09 <Templarian> Yea, about to say.
Jul 23 01:58:18 <PuffTheMagic> but there is only one thing in ther yet
Jul 23 01:58:24 <Templarian> (I corrected that after it was renamed wrong).
Jul 23 01:58:25 <PuffTheMagic> cause most things are in the git repo
Jul 23 02:00:11 <Rick__> no
Jul 23 02:00:20 <Rick__> top of webos apps page 2nd blue box
Jul 23 02:00:29 <Rick__> If you are looking for patches to modify existing webOS applications those are found in Patches to webOS.
Jul 23 02:00:39 <Rick__> and bingo there they are.
Jul 23 02:01:04 <PuffTheMagic> those need tog et moved or the one on Source Patches added to that
Jul 23 02:01:05 <Rick__> if they need to go somewhere else, it should be linked off that box so folks can find them
Jul 23 02:01:11 <PuffTheMagic> then the main page link need updating
Jul 23 02:01:19 <Rick__> +1  that's my point.
Jul 23 02:01:28 <Rick__> which should we pick?
Jul 23 02:02:19 <PuffTheMagic> dont matter really
Jul 23 02:28:15 <djk1> anyone using the comics app? it states webos 1.1 is required how can that be
Jul 23 02:30:37 <X1011> the sdk emulator runs webOS 1.1
Jul 23 02:31:05 <djk1> ah so have to wait for it on pre
Jul 23 02:33:20 <X1011> i don't know; maybe it's a mistake. it seems odd to me
Jul 23 02:33:26 <jwm> hehe
Jul 23 02:35:04 <DSouljah> can step me through getting novaterm and running it?
Jul 23 02:36:14 <DSouljah> or least point me to directions some where
Jul 23 02:37:36 <DSouljah> or do I even have that option running windows???
Jul 23 02:57:40 <djk1> How do you remove a homebrew app?
Jul 23 02:58:05 <JackieRipper> orange button and tap the icon?
Jul 23 02:58:19 <djk1> not working for the Garfield one
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 23 02:59:57 2009