**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 24 02:59:57 2009 Jul 24 03:00:08 Eguy: assuming it's js Jul 24 03:00:33 I have a cold now as well, coincidence? nah... Jul 24 03:01:19 rwhitby: you were interviewed? Jul 24 03:01:31 PalmCast :) Jul 24 03:01:33 Zuchmir2: I think it looks pretty good -- what is the fontinfo? Jul 24 03:01:33 Eguy: yeah, but it's not winter where you are I bet. Jul 24 03:01:48 tmzt: http://media.libsyn.com/media/treocentral/palmcast68-5.mp3 Jul 24 03:01:49 Nope :) A nice 90 degree day here Jul 24 03:02:09 has there been any news on the terminal stuff, I guess it's early Jul 24 03:02:10 Boot time certainly did not get minimized :D Jul 24 03:02:17 lol, yea Jul 24 03:02:24 Man it is painful Jul 24 03:02:34 ? Jul 24 03:02:37 tmzt: terminal alpha works well enough for me to run "ipkg -o /var upgrade" :-) Jul 24 03:02:39 Better than a crackberry though Jul 24 03:02:52 the FontInfo is an abstract layer which can be modifed w/o messing with any fixed sizes (which you all over the place * 8 / 8, % 8, etc) Jul 24 03:03:08 webos update!!!!!! Jul 24 03:03:13 they are all hinged on the FontInfo now Jul 24 03:03:36 Zuchmir2: sounds good. I didn't see the file though Jul 24 03:03:41 Zuchmir2: I think we'll eventually replace with a font library, but this is still a good step towards that Jul 24 03:03:47 url doesn't work Jul 24 03:04:05 rwhitby: cool, does links2 or similar work yet Jul 24 03:04:08 and abstracts in a needed way Jul 24 03:04:10 or maybe irssi? Jul 24 03:04:16 tmzt: haven't tested Jul 24 03:04:24 OH MY GOD the phone is so much faster Jul 24 03:04:57 http://pastebin.com/d2a3fb158 Jul 24 03:05:28 that's the FontInfo files (I thought they went into the diffs) Jul 24 03:06:38 anyone notice that novaterm is WAY slow? Jul 24 03:07:24 * joesmith hopes when he wakes up all the hacks will magically work Jul 24 03:07:39 Zuchmir2: I hadn't patched it in, maybe I missed it Jul 24 03:07:52 Do not remove the battery. Jul 24 03:08:01 ~battery Jul 24 03:08:02 [battery] made by Danionics http://www.danionics.com/products/icphh02.asp, or at http://www.handhelds.org/handhelds-faq/questions.html#AEN744 Jul 24 03:08:22 ipaq, wow Jul 24 03:08:32 mrvc: i thought that a git diff would show the new files as well, but now i realiase i have to add them Jul 24 03:12:15 splitsville Jul 24 03:12:22 booooo Jul 24 03:12:25 ah IRC Jul 24 03:12:27 you're so old Jul 24 03:12:30 heh Jul 24 03:13:14 mrvc: can you please look over specifically the new/delete/mutex stuff, as i am not clear in that area Jul 24 03:13:31 Where would I find out information on writing gps software for the pre? I'm looking to write a general gps navigation application with the usual satellite, compass, and map pages. Jul 24 03:13:35 Zuchmir2: you want to try committing and pushing if you've got everything square away? assuming you were working in the directory and have tracked files the whole time... Jul 24 03:14:23 * joesmith hopes when he wakes up all the hacks will magically work Jul 24 03:15:08 joesmith: that's the intent of quilt ... Jul 24 03:15:09 finally, I've successfully built anyterm on the pre Jul 24 03:17:09 * joesmith thinks pre fairies are the smartest fairies there are, after they are done with an iphone fairy they leave them crying in a corner, wondering why they even exist, wishing the could be pre fairies too Jul 24 03:17:29 lol wtf joesmith Jul 24 03:17:36 at least thats how I like to imagine it Jul 24 03:17:45 i wonder if apple will update itunes tomorrow Jul 24 03:17:50 this iphone fairy bailed on them all! Jul 24 03:17:58 Zuchmir2: sorry. how do I apply your patch? Jul 24 03:17:59 i believe the iphone and pre can coexist ... i like both phones a lot Jul 24 03:18:08 bpadalino: me too Jul 24 03:18:14 and it's part of the free market whatzit Jul 24 03:18:16 I dont mind the iphones at all Jul 24 03:18:20 i'm glad the pre is here to kick iphone in the pants Jul 24 03:18:25 (UK pants) Jul 24 03:18:33 Zuchmir2: I'm pretty new to git Jul 24 03:18:55 I am just anti iphone fanboy, nothing against the phone Jul 24 03:19:02 ditto Jul 24 03:19:10 this update is taking a while to install... ugh Jul 24 03:19:28 Yes, patience is required. Jul 24 03:19:57 does anyone know if msg fwd still works post update? Jul 24 03:20:25 mrvc: I'm having him try to commit and push it Jul 24 03:20:30 mrvc: so you can just pull Jul 24 03:22:32 joesmith: that's fine, i hate fanboys too Jul 24 03:22:41 which sucks, because i do like some aspects of iphone quite a bit, i have to , i helped make it rule Jul 24 03:22:51 but i hate fanboys in general, and also equally hate all phones Jul 24 03:22:55 i can criticize anything heavily Jul 24 03:23:05 like the iphone's pathetic implementation of A2DP Jul 24 03:23:11 one of my friends there gets pissed at my rantings Jul 24 03:24:39 can you SSH from the pre to another computer? Jul 24 03:24:50 I cant wait to go back to school and shove my palm pre into my classmates iphone 3g face. Jul 24 03:24:58 i'm listening to a podcast of someone from this channel. Who is it? Jul 24 03:25:07 Anyone else notice how FAST webos is now or was mine just SO slow before? Jul 24 03:25:08 rod Jul 24 03:25:16 rhwitby Jul 24 03:25:29 cool. nic ework rwhitby Jul 24 03:25:44 Ie: boss of webos-internals ;) Jul 24 03:25:55 i might have to go into a fantasy football league this year with this new app Jul 24 03:26:23 question - rebooting speeds up almost any device on the planet.....is entering the command the same and will it speed up my pre? Jul 24 03:26:47 rod = UB3R H4XZOR P0WN4GE with lots of sugar Jul 24 03:26:49 now if only there was a Big 12 app Jul 24 03:26:56 lol joe Jul 24 03:29:31 ok I have just offically loaded most LOTR extrended, spiderman trilogy, xmen 1-4, iron man, superman, and the hulk onto my pre Jul 24 03:29:47 :D Jul 24 03:30:23 webOS doctor = uber FAIL Jul 24 03:30:25 damn it Jul 24 03:30:30 4 times Jul 24 03:30:56 what made your phone brick darthpooh? Jul 24 03:30:59 I found dumb thing #1: When adding an email account you must first try to "sign in" before it lets you manually set up Jul 24 03:31:08 1.1.0 Jul 24 03:31:24 really, just downloading it Jul 24 03:31:27 scary Jul 24 03:31:31 i am apparently the only one Jul 24 03:31:49 d03boy, you think that's dumb, you should play with blackberry's services for att/verizon which do the same and worse Jul 24 03:31:54 now I am scared Jul 24 03:31:56 d03boy, in some cases they won't even offer you manual configuration ;) Jul 24 03:32:14 nah... i think I am the only one it happened to Jul 24 03:33:42 psykoz, i have a bb with att righ tnext to me. Maybe I will try! Jul 24 03:33:48 well I am downloading now and saying good bye to my mods, some of which wont work yet :( Jul 24 03:34:07 d03boy Tip #1: When the keyboard is out and the screen turns off, use spacebar to turn screen back on Jul 24 03:34:52 d03boy, unless it's changed recently if you go to att.blackberry.net and try to add gmail in and then manually configure it, it won't let you, it also forces you to use pop3, you then had to make up fake email address, fake server, choose manual configuration and then reconfigure for gmail + imap Jul 24 03:34:55 Uber Ouch DP Jul 24 03:35:06 Mine is fine and i am LOVING the speed increase Jul 24 03:35:25 eff you... ;) i'll get a new one tomorro Jul 24 03:35:26 w Jul 24 03:36:06 thats crazy Jul 24 03:36:22 * d03boy is testing the sending email with encryption.. will it work? Jul 24 03:36:51 works on wifi! Jul 24 03:36:54 yay they fixed it Jul 24 03:37:12 the UI speed increase is nice Jul 24 03:37:17 what do u mean email with encryption Jul 24 03:37:30 i could not send emails with imap+tls before Jul 24 03:37:45 wow half way done with dl and its only been a minute Jul 24 03:38:15 my download was severla minutes ;) Jul 24 03:38:16 ok Jul 24 03:38:32 I now have to re-write the windows linux access page. Jul 24 03:38:39 crap Jul 24 03:38:42 since it is confirmed that there is no novaterm for windows. Jul 24 03:38:47 it broke my other clock theme Jul 24 03:38:52 rick how is that chess coming :) Jul 24 03:38:59 since nicoya was nice enough to confirm it Jul 24 03:39:07 joesmith -- good and bad. Jul 24 03:39:27 I can't believe it works! I can be 100% happy with this phone now (minus the fact that I want more apps) Jul 24 03:39:33 the EXISTING app will never have a take a move back. There's no move stack and the arcitechure sucks for it. Jul 24 03:39:39 but I found a DIFFERENT one that is good. Jul 24 03:39:42 I love this phone now even more as well Jul 24 03:40:00 don't get me started guys Jul 24 03:40:01 AND I am working with the nice guys at ajaxchess.com to port their FICS and GNU CHESS web clients to the pre Jul 24 03:40:18 Rick_ Jul 24 03:40:22 freechess++ Jul 24 03:40:23 which will allow you to play on the internet at fics servers via the cloud and against gnuchess via the cloud Jul 24 03:40:24 you need to fix your chess game Jul 24 03:40:32 PreGame -- it's not mine. Jul 24 03:40:36 but I'm fixing it anyway. Jul 24 03:40:36 did the button turn on the screen before when the screen was open? Jul 24 03:40:40 because it does now... Jul 24 03:40:48 thats a good upgrade Jul 24 03:40:53 if you select player 1 and player 2 then it freezes and wont let you uncheck Jul 24 03:41:11 PreGame, huh, it doesn't do that for me. Jul 24 03:41:13 PreGame, I am happy your flashlight still works :D Jul 24 03:41:16 but I will try it again. Jul 24 03:41:18 what I really would like to see is an undo/ maybe save/resume game/ two player/ save game log Jul 24 03:41:30 joesmith. I found one for you. Jul 24 03:41:30 I am happy to play against the cloud Jul 24 03:41:32 I want blind chess Jul 24 03:41:35 please gimme blind Jul 24 03:41:35 I will be porting it Jul 24 03:41:41 YAY Jul 24 03:41:42 kthx bai Jul 24 03:41:43 TY Jul 24 03:41:51 joesmith, go look at the games area at brothercake.com Jul 24 03:42:07 he has a chess two player or noting system with import and export and multiple types of notation Jul 24 03:42:14 You'll be getting that eventually Jul 24 03:42:16 it's cool Jul 24 03:42:31 my tournament directors will be so happy they can get a legible notation! Jul 24 03:42:34 damn this UI speed is incredible, I knew they would fix it at some point Jul 24 03:42:44 http://brothercake.com/site/resources/games/chess/ Jul 24 03:42:44 I can just email it to them Jul 24 03:43:20 go read that, and tell me what you think. Jul 24 03:43:24 Try playing it. Jul 24 03:43:31 woah does it save pgn files Jul 24 03:43:33 ((( no computer opponent )) Jul 24 03:43:48 it looks like it saves pgn files Jul 24 03:43:56 yes it does joesmith Jul 24 03:44:02 !!!!!!! Jul 24 03:44:04 YAYA Jul 24 03:44:15 note: You will not have this "tommorow" Jul 24 03:44:19 THIS IS AMAZING Jul 24 03:44:26 can you open PDF in a browser yet? Jul 24 03:44:30 it's probably something like 18 hours of work to port it to the pre. Jul 24 03:44:37 TY TY TY TY TY TY TY TY TY TY TY TY TY Jul 24 03:44:43 not yet joe Jul 24 03:44:44 yay i successfully edited the options to add/delete launcher pages and changed Sprint at the top left to James! Jul 24 03:44:54 unless YOU want to try porting it. Jul 24 03:44:56 it's not hard. Jul 24 03:45:00 just tedious Jul 24 03:45:07 Eguy: not the boss, just a facilitator :-) Jul 24 03:45:15 I CAN EMAIL MYSELF GAMES AND LOAD THEM INTO CHESSBASE10 Jul 24 03:45:21 yes joe. Jul 24 03:45:24 man 1.1 takes forever Jul 24 03:45:25 calm down.... Jul 24 03:45:28 go take a walk. Jul 24 03:45:50 can I talk about webos-internals for a moment. Jul 24 03:45:59 I need some help with a decison about how to write this. Jul 24 03:46:08 there is no "novaterm" for windows. Jul 24 03:46:22 But, novacom can talk to the pre just fine all by itself from a windows command window Jul 24 03:46:25 novaterm is so convenient :) Jul 24 03:46:35 you can't run vi from there, but you can get a root@castle prompt Jul 24 03:46:49 vi works for me hehe Jul 24 03:46:52 at which point, it's 3 lines to get the optware script running. and ssh into the pre. Jul 24 03:47:16 The ALTERNATIVE is to install cygwin. :-/ which is huge and a pita. Jul 24 03:47:19 but it works, Jul 24 03:47:23 cygwin Jul 24 03:47:27 Cannot find an application which can open this file. Jul 24 03:47:30 still didnt fix PDF :( Jul 24 03:47:31 it's like a genetically engineered goat Jul 24 03:47:42 AgentSmith, doesn't matter Jul 24 03:47:50 :) Jul 24 03:47:53 I've got a problem to solve and a limited tool set Jul 24 03:48:02 Rick__: run optware-bootstrap.sh, then use PuTTY after that Jul 24 03:48:02 here's the question: Jul 24 03:48:08 that's the answer Jul 24 03:48:15 don't force people to install cygwin Jul 24 03:48:19 thank you Rod. Jul 24 03:48:24 rwhitby, I understand that Jul 24 03:48:27 putty worked fine when i was on windows Jul 24 03:48:53 the question is, do we want to give them the CHOICE... in other words, do I write an "but if you don't want to install ssh on your pre, here's the other choice..." page. Jul 24 03:48:59 which will be a huge pain in the ass. Jul 24 03:49:07 cygwin is pretty small if you just install the dll and shell Jul 24 03:49:10 or do I just shut up and say --- type 4 lines. Jul 24 03:49:17 type 4 lines Jul 24 03:49:21 hehe Jul 24 03:49:25 yep Jul 24 03:50:04 Rick__: less choices Jul 24 03:50:07 Type 4 lines - if you knew what to do with the choice, you probably could figure it out yourself :) Jul 24 03:51:01 got it. \ Jul 24 03:51:04 page coming up Jul 24 03:51:09 will request review in a minute Jul 24 03:53:20 hate cygwin Jul 24 03:53:33 vote just write 3 lines option Jul 24 03:53:45 at this point if the user is going through this much effort, they're either crazy, or know what they're doing-ish Jul 24 03:53:57 Zuchmir2: are you pushing your changes? Jul 24 03:55:30 why do people hate cygwin Jul 24 03:55:32 heh Jul 24 03:56:09 jwm: cuz its horrible, lol Jul 24 03:56:13 its bloaty Jul 24 03:56:22 you might as well just use lunix Jul 24 03:56:23 is there a changelog for 1.1.0 somewhere? Jul 24 03:56:33 hehe Jul 24 03:56:35 if you must use windows, i recommend andLinux Jul 24 03:56:36 it's bloaty, they dont' offer a "all things we offer" download to just install Jul 24 03:56:44 you have to go through their stupid installer app and choose individually what you want Jul 24 03:56:47 it's the worst design ever Jul 24 03:56:49 well Jul 24 03:56:54 you just choose what you want Jul 24 03:56:58 it pulls depends auto Jul 24 03:57:05 if you want ssh you just go choose openssh Jul 24 03:57:13 it's still horrible ;) Jul 24 03:57:18 worst interface evar Jul 24 03:57:18 and it will pull all neeeded depends Jul 24 03:57:25 well, it still works Jul 24 03:57:28 works great imo Jul 24 03:57:39 only free fully working X server for windows I know of :) Jul 24 03:57:52 xming is the best xserver Jul 24 03:58:04 So you're saying by proxy just offering crap for windows that it's the best? :) Jul 24 03:58:28 "bob is the only guy selling poop in a bag, therefore his poop in the bag is the best" :) Jul 24 03:58:41 psykoz: well, that is kind of true Jul 24 03:58:46 but, no, there is minGW Jul 24 03:59:39 but i like andlinux (andlinux.org) which unfortunately, doesnt work with win7 atm, because it offers an actual term since it is just ubuntu Jul 24 03:59:41 jwm: cygwin is way to complex for the userbase for which this howto is targetted Jul 24 03:59:44 how do i add the files tothe git tree? Jul 24 03:59:54 Zuchmir2: git add Jul 24 04:00:06 whattup psykoz ... Jul 24 04:00:14 I'm not arguing to add it to the howto Jul 24 04:00:24 but you could have a little link with if you want to do this.. Jul 24 04:00:27 any beer homebrewers in here? Jul 24 04:00:42 but the people who want to use cygwin and already know about it don't need a howto Jul 24 04:00:48 so I'm not arguing to put it in Jul 24 04:00:53 just defending it Jul 24 04:01:05 I like cygwin if you're stuck with windows hehe Jul 24 04:01:13 it's saved me in a few sticky situations Jul 24 04:01:20 +rwhitby: thanks Jul 24 04:01:43 so... anyone know where i could find a changelog for updates? Jul 24 04:01:51 jwm: sure, cygwin is a nice way to survive in windows. a linux vm is easier :-) Jul 24 04:01:54 what is the difference between add vs. commit? Jul 24 04:02:03 Zuchmir2: add just lets git track it Jul 24 04:02:13 ah, ok Jul 24 04:02:23 rwhitby: I switched back from windows to ubuntu and life is so much easier Jul 24 04:02:32 i guess here: http://kb.palm.com/wps/portal/kb/na/pre/p100eww/sprint/solutions/article/50607_en.html#11 Jul 24 04:02:35 Zuchmir2: git status shows the difference Jul 24 04:02:50 I was running windows for games, now I have to dual boot. I can deal though Jul 24 04:03:13 i switched to ubuntu from windows after i rooted my pre Jul 24 04:03:14 after add, do i *also* have to commit? Jul 24 04:03:16 destinal: I switched to macosx and it's even easier still. linux has too many disparate UIs. I run ubuntu headless in my VMs. Jul 24 04:03:22 Zuchmir2: yes, then push. Jul 24 04:03:31 typing all the commands in the pre was fun so i tried linux Jul 24 04:03:33 rwhitby: I might go back to hackintosh Jul 24 04:03:43 rwhitby: OSX is good, even if their security sucks Jul 24 04:05:49 mostly they need to keep up on upstream patches, see the latest java vuln, months old with remote code execution Jul 24 04:06:13 (patched now) Jul 24 04:08:05 w00t, they enabled the forward gesture, also, have people noticed that in landscape view, back/forward gestures scroll the page? Jul 24 04:08:24 fatal: protocol error: expected sha/ref, got ' Jul 24 04:08:24 ---------------------------------------------- Jul 24 04:08:24 The git:// url is read-only. Please see http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications for the push url, if you're a committer. Jul 24 04:08:42 oh whoops, did it wrong Jul 24 04:09:14 ! [rejected] master -> master (non-fast forward) Jul 24 04:09:14 error: failed to push some refs to 'git@gitorious.org:webos-internals/applications.git' Jul 24 04:10:07 should we just "revert" last mod, as this update has that code (put in manually) Jul 24 04:11:11 Zuchmir2: ugh Jul 24 04:12:07 gkatsev: the scrolling via gesture in landscape was in 104 too Jul 24 04:12:08 Zuchmir2: you need to rebase, then push Jul 24 04:12:18 *never* --force on a push Jul 24 04:12:31 (that rewrites history, and causes everyone's clones to break) Jul 24 04:13:21 how do i rebase Jul 24 04:13:44 clone, copy modified files, then push? Jul 24 04:13:49 rwhitby: the encounter could create a time paradox, the result of which could cause a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space-time continuum and destroy the entire universe! Granted that's a worst case scenario. The destruction might in fact be very localized, limited to merely our own galaxy. Jul 24 04:14:01 Zuchmir2: yeah, that's the easiest Jul 24 04:14:14 ok Jul 24 04:14:41 otherwise you need to learn merge in git, and I haven't mastered that yet Jul 24 04:15:02 ah who needs this galaxy, there are so many more Jul 24 04:24:29 Anyone happen to know what novaterm -d {??} expects? Tried {tcp,usb} but neither works for me Jul 24 04:25:27 (where not working means "unable to find device" error when I have both emu running and device plugged in, and I'm trying to select the emu) Jul 24 04:26:48 ok, bh just pushed the updates! Jul 24 04:27:54 it's now giving 56 lines, although the Spawn_Stty() still thinks it's 40x40 Jul 24 04:30:31 Zuchmir2: cool, will pull Jul 24 04:33:43 ok, just fixed a typo, and pushed again Jul 24 04:37:20 Zuchmir2: ok builds cleanly Jul 24 04:37:22 testing Jul 24 04:40:36 Zuchmir2: are you on windows? Jul 24 04:41:33 doh, bug Jul 24 04:41:35 yeah, i use devstudio for editiing Jul 24 04:41:48 Zuchmir2: anyway you can dos2unix before commit? Jul 24 04:42:04 ok Jul 24 04:42:04 CRLF = evil Jul 24 04:42:13 :) Jul 24 04:42:25 got your code working, found a problem when flicking Jul 24 04:42:49 not sure if it's yours or from before Jul 24 04:43:00 ok, didn't test that :-( Jul 24 04:43:04 try flicking the window downward Jul 24 04:43:09 the top will duplicate Jul 24 04:43:20 oh wait Jul 24 04:43:29 maybe it's just pen clicking at all Jul 24 04:43:44 every time I click the screen I get a permission denied message Jul 24 04:43:56 diskcache:permission denied Jul 24 04:44:19 bzhou * r10485 optware/trunk/make/py-mercurial.mk: py-mercurial: 1.3 -> 1.3.1 Jul 24 04:44:27 and its gone now Jul 24 04:44:29 bizarre Jul 24 04:44:32 i'm seeing ** Message: Card Window Manager defocused .... /bin/sh: /bin: not found Jul 24 04:44:58 seems to be fine for me Jul 24 04:44:59 nevermind Jul 24 04:45:21 Zuchmir2: looks like you fixed some very nasty drawing problems Jul 24 04:45:30 or mrvc did Jul 24 04:45:37 I fixed some drawing problems a bit ago Jul 24 04:45:48 did not yet do the scrolling, had to get the font layer adjusted, so i can resize etc. Jul 24 04:46:01 so you can resize? Jul 24 04:46:07 I mean, it works? Jul 24 04:46:18 in theory .... Jul 24 04:46:54 in fact the resize is called each NPP_SetWindow() - which is the wrong place, with the screen dimensions Jul 24 04:47:08 Zuchmir2: I think setwindow is bogus Jul 24 04:47:14 I think it sets the same static values every time Jul 24 04:47:19 cheeky bastards they removed the roam only patch in 1.1 Jul 24 04:47:23 but after the 1st resize, it doesn't have to, as it's the same size again and again Jul 24 04:47:38 look at the webcore code to see what I mean Jul 24 04:47:46 there are // FIXME's next to palm's code Jul 24 04:48:11 every time, it basically sends 320x480,32bpp Jul 24 04:48:14 regardless of what's going on Jul 24 04:49:00 yeah, that doesn't make sense to me, since we set the plugin size in the term-assistant.js Jul 24 04:49:06 how would it change? Jul 24 04:49:22 mrvc: Zuchmir2's got code to change it from inside the plugin Jul 24 04:49:35 anyone know if the "RocknRollHax" for e-mail can be enabled by deleting a few lines like the add/remove launcher page script? Jul 24 04:49:43 yeah, and in setWindow it's reflected Jul 24 04:49:58 Zuchmir2: ok, so I guess I was wrong about the static values? Jul 24 04:50:18 they exist in the code but there may be multiple places it gets set Jul 24 04:50:19 Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo roam only does not work anymore Jul 24 04:50:31 this is a major fail Jul 24 04:50:37 Eguy: so hack it Jul 24 04:50:45 I just tried Jul 24 04:50:47 figure out what was using it and change it Jul 24 04:50:48 didn't work Jul 24 04:50:53 go lower Jul 24 04:50:59 that's what she said Jul 24 04:51:03 lol Jul 24 04:51:08 have a look at the basicplugin output to see i think the value changes after setSize Jul 24 04:51:20 argh I just undid dev mode Jul 24 04:53:25 our formatting styles a very different, this could be tricky Jul 24 04:53:25 mrvc: freetype seems to be great for getting glyph images from a font file, I just need to learn how to use it Jul 24 04:54:08 bzhou * r10486 optware/trunk/make/py-quixote.mk: py-quixote: 2.5 -> 2.6, py2[45] -> py2[56] Jul 24 04:54:32 mrvc: there definitely need to be some standards Jul 24 04:54:41 for formatting code Jul 24 04:56:56 Quilt, I'm trying to remove all patches before 1.1 but it's giving me errors. Jul 24 04:57:01 Zuchmir2: are you trying to get it where it handles switching to landscape? Jul 24 04:59:32 no, don't know ehere that comes in, but i guess setwindow would inform the prog Jul 24 05:00:31 i would guess the direction is handled by the os, and the co-oridnates 0,0 are always top-left relative to what the user sees Jul 24 05:02:07 Zuchmir2, mrvc: so why does stty still think 40,40? Jul 24 05:02:44 the ioctl has to be sent to change the window size Jul 24 05:03:16 because i didn't adjust, i assume i need a Spawn_Stty_Resize() Jul 24 05:03:21 AGH! palm broke my character counter... Jul 24 05:03:25 Zuchmir2: yep Jul 24 05:04:18 oh, look like Spawn_Stty() would do it Jul 24 05:05:47 is there's a prob doing that after Spawn_Exec()? Jul 24 05:06:30 no, should be fine Jul 24 05:06:34 where does the debug output go? Jul 24 05:09:11 if it's not on stderr, you got my first commit which sends it to: /tmp/termPluginOutput.log Jul 24 05:10:39 it looks like it is supposed to go to stderr Jul 24 05:10:54 but I only get it initially, then it stops Jul 24 05:11:08 and I'm getting some debug output sent to the terminal Jul 24 05:11:42 hmm, dunno about that stuff, didn't touch that stuff Jul 24 05:12:32 yeah, gone for me too Jul 24 05:14:02 oh, it is closing stderr Jul 24 05:14:23 and do we need Jul 24 05:14:28 termplugin.cpp: FILE *out = stderr; Jul 24 05:14:29 termplugin.cpp: FILE *out = stderr; Jul 24 05:14:32 it could be conflicting Jul 24 05:14:57 I don't think we can hold it open and fprintf to it at once Jul 24 05:15:11 ouch, i fclose() Jul 24 05:15:39 yeah, if I comment out the fclose it is good Jul 24 05:16:01 mrvc: can you push that, I know it's minor but may as well Jul 24 05:16:22 or just remove the line and push Jul 24 05:16:46 hey all..quick ? im about to exchange my pre (yet again) but really dont want to reset up how many launcher pages i have/order/bookmark kauncher isoncs ive created using an image and inserted the url...can i back this up (is it stored in files i can grab off the device via ssh? Jul 24 05:16:52 ok Jul 24 05:17:07 re setup* Jul 24 05:17:26 paz00kie: I don't know Jul 24 05:17:40 i'm about to push a few more minor changes Jul 24 05:17:45 pushed Jul 24 05:17:48 paz00kie: I don't think anyone has researched it.. if you do, you could post to the wiki and hel pthe next person Jul 24 05:18:00 what do i do, pull Jul 24 05:18:03 ok, then both of you should be able to pull, I'd hope Jul 24 05:18:07 since the changes shouldn't overlap Jul 24 05:18:16 im asuming it would be in usr/lib/luna/system somewhere but i looked and couldnt find but didnt look very thouroughly..figured someone here would know Jul 24 05:18:46 paz00kie: You can search the wiki but I've never heard of it and i've heard of most of the major techniques Jul 24 05:18:51 slright..off to walmart..will investigate later Jul 24 05:18:59 error: Entry 'termplugin/fontinfo.cpp' not uptodate. Cannot merge. Jul 24 05:19:01 yah thats why im here lol Jul 24 05:19:07 did u only mod that line? Jul 24 05:19:09 i posted on the forums and got nothin Jul 24 05:19:16 gah, git sucks Jul 24 05:19:31 be back Jul 24 05:19:31 I'm thinking of going svn just from all these headaches Jul 24 05:19:34 Zuchmir2: you need to commit your changes first Jul 24 05:19:44 Zuchmir2: then when you pull it will merge Jul 24 05:20:20 Zuchmir2: I find that a bit odd, coming from cvs Jul 24 05:21:11 mrvc: this is my first project with git, I have used subversion in the past and never seen issues like this. now maybe one or more of us is using it wrong Jul 24 05:21:31 but it shouldn't be this ahrd Jul 24 05:21:32 hard Jul 24 05:21:42 destinal: it is very different Jul 24 05:22:02 destinal: I think it is a better way to go, but it takes getting used to new concepts Jul 24 05:25:12 Auto-merged termplugin/fontinfo.hpp Jul 24 05:25:12 CONFLICT (content): Merge conflict in termplugin/fontinfo.hpp Jul 24 05:25:12 Auto-merged termplugin/termplugin.cpp Jul 24 05:25:12 CONFLICT (content): Merge conflict in termplugin/termplugin.cpp Jul 24 05:25:12 Automatic merge failed; fix conflicts and then commit the result. Jul 24 05:25:25 ... does that mean another manual merge? Jul 24 05:25:38 same thing would happen in svn, right? two people working on the same piece of code. Jul 24 05:26:07 Zuchmir2: I think it gives conflict markers just like svn update conflicts Jul 24 05:27:30 rwhitby: so far we seem to be seeing a lot more than I'm used to Jul 24 05:27:50 svn operates very granularly so unless changes actually overlap it should merge Jul 24 05:28:04 destinal: git does the same I believe Jul 24 05:28:06 ie just same file isn't enough to cause a problem Jul 24 05:28:16 same three way merge with ancestor Jul 24 05:28:16 I would assume git as well but.. Jul 24 05:28:53 destinal: I'm pretty sure we modified a couple of the same lines Jul 24 05:29:02 mrvc: ok, well there's no help for that Jul 24 05:29:03 but it should have conflict markers Jul 24 05:29:57 anyone in here? Jul 24 05:30:12 destinal, Zuchmir2: so, I want to support multiple instances Jul 24 05:30:20 any idea how that works? Jul 24 05:31:12 right now, if you minimize the card, and start term again, it just brings back the original card instead of opening a new one Jul 24 05:31:20 rwhitby: you might want to update the quilt instructions to mention you need to go to read/write on the pre before you can pop the patches. ;) Jul 24 05:31:40 mrvc: that's a property in moj, I think Jul 24 05:31:41 SirWill: go for it - you can edit the page. Jul 24 05:31:45 mojo Jul 24 05:32:03 quick question you guys.... Jul 24 05:32:31 so what do i put in those modified files? Jul 24 05:32:40 i choose which one i want? Jul 24 05:33:15 when i try to run the novaproxy.py file i keep getting a novacomd is not running... iv rooted into the pre with my desktop no problem and now on my laptop im having problems... Jul 24 05:33:32 Zuchmir2: yeah Jul 24 05:33:44 Zuchmir2: you just modify the code to be how you want it Jul 24 05:35:53 any idea? Jul 24 05:39:35 SirWill: thx for the wiki update Jul 24 05:39:36 Changed but not updated: do i have to "add" them again? Jul 24 05:39:49 Yep. Jul 24 05:39:51 Zuchmir2: no, just commit -a Jul 24 05:40:02 discovered that when I went to pop -a tonight. Jul 24 05:40:15 Zuchmir2: or git add -u Jul 24 05:40:26 downloaded the update, but havn't clicked on install yet. Will probably do that in the morning. Need to head to bed now. Jul 24 05:40:37 Zuchmir2: (if you want a second chance to check before you commit) Jul 24 05:40:40 the file it want to edit says: Jul 24 05:40:43 Zuchmir2, destinal: tried landscape mode -- basically works Jul 24 05:40:44 Merge branch 'master' of git://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications Jul 24 05:40:44 Conflicts: Jul 24 05:40:44 termplugin/fontinfo.hpp Jul 24 05:40:44 termplugin/termplugin.cpp Jul 24 05:41:05 anyone not getting activesync policys, as said, with new update? Jul 24 05:41:38 mrvc: great! it changed dimentions? Jul 24 05:41:51 Zuchmir2: no, just orientation Jul 24 05:42:04 still 40x40? Jul 24 05:42:17 :-( what does setScreen say for width/height? Jul 24 05:42:46 Zuchmir2: I imagine the javascript code will have to listen for an orientation change event and then resize the plugin Jul 24 05:42:59 do i just finish the commit with the message: conflicts (above)? Jul 24 05:43:04 mrvc: he has been able to resize the plugin inside the plugin. odd, I know, but it works Jul 24 05:43:12 does npapi already provide for that? Jul 24 05:43:43 destinal: not sure what that means... resize it to what? Jul 24 05:43:57 set width and height values on the embed Jul 24 05:43:58 all it takes is termPlugin.width = newwidth, in the JS Jul 24 05:45:41 Zuchmir2: right, I expect it would be done in the JS code, not in the plugin Jul 24 05:45:50 does Palm use setAttribute or dom0 stuff? Jul 24 05:47:30 bzhou * r10487 optware/trunk/sources/kernel-modules/kirkwood/ (Makefile defconfig): sheevaplug kernel: 2.6.30.1 -> 2.6.30.2 Jul 24 05:47:52 ok, just pushed the updated version with Spawn_Stty() to fix the width Jul 24 05:48:36 it's gonna habe to be done by the plugin is scrolling is going to be implemented the native way Jul 24 05:49:01 ie, when user presses "enter" gonna want to "add" to the screen height Jul 24 05:49:27 Zuchmir2: but do we have to forse a scroll down also, and how? Jul 24 05:51:26 destinal, Zuchmir2: I've seen some calls to scrollTo in some of the apps Jul 24 05:51:52 why does this one need that? Jul 24 05:52:00 you aren't scrolling the html page Jul 24 05:52:13 wait Jul 24 05:52:20 Zuchmir2: uh, wrong, I now have 60 cols 40 rows Jul 24 05:52:21 is this the ajax one? Jul 24 05:52:35 tmzt: no, graphics, they're just expanding the view window Jul 24 05:52:45 but ultimately, to be correct, I think the scrollback would have to be handled by the plugin Jul 24 05:52:51 Zuchmir2: in portrait mode Jul 24 05:52:56 mrvc: I agree Jul 24 05:53:03 it really should be native Jul 24 05:53:06 yeah Jul 24 05:53:48 and you probably need to force the update only on the changed part of the screen and scroll the rest with an accel function, though I guess pixmap is fast enough for now Jul 24 05:54:10 just saying it's best to design the code for that functionality to be added Jul 24 05:54:24 what's the debug output of resizeToPixels()? Jul 24 05:54:25 mrvc: actually, when you think about it, the browser window gets really large Jul 24 05:54:35 you can scroll very long text files in it Jul 24 05:54:39 actually, you want to do that now even when rendering to pixmap Jul 24 05:55:04 I think this will break curses completely Jul 24 05:55:04 12:10 < k4r1m_> when i ever i try mv /sdcard/userinit.sh /system/sd/ i get a failed on '/sdcard/userinit.sh' - Cross-device link Jul 24 05:55:05 not sure if that's done transparently natively or done by luna Jul 24 05:55:08 sorry Jul 24 05:55:17 is anyone getting self-signed certificates to work with the mail program? Jul 24 05:55:28 the idea is, to expand the "viewport" to accomodate how many lines in the scroll buffer, so the suer can flick up/down Jul 24 05:56:02 with the 1.1 update, I mean. (is anyone getting self-signed certificates to work with the mail program?) Jul 24 05:56:02 yeah, I do think that should work actually, although graphics takes more memory than text as a buffer Jul 24 05:56:12 think of it this way, the only memory consumption is, the amount of text in the scroll back buffer Jul 24 05:56:29 well stored as pixels Jul 24 05:56:36 you don't buffer images, u buffer text Jul 24 05:56:39 you can't handle gestures as events? Jul 24 05:56:40 oh Jul 24 05:56:47 you have to use the browser for that Jul 24 05:56:47 Zuchmir2: ok, I think I get it then Jul 24 05:57:04 Zuchmir2: using the buffer locations you rerender from scrollback to video Jul 24 05:57:12 i have it formulated in my mind how to do it Jul 24 05:57:18 right, but rerendering the enter screen when a linefeed comes is going to be slow Jul 24 05:57:23 just one really long virtual port Jul 24 05:57:32 the os tells you which "line" it's upto, and you simply draw that area Jul 24 05:57:42 right, ok Jul 24 05:58:00 tmzt: every time you press a button the entire screen is being redrawn! Jul 24 05:58:09 it's fast so far Jul 24 05:58:17 what happens if it goes to a fractional offset? Jul 24 05:58:23 I've imported my server's root certificate with the Certificate Manager and I keep getting the "Unable to validate incoming mail server settings" error. Jul 24 05:58:33 has anyone had the same problem? Jul 24 05:58:33 or not fractional, but not divisble by line height Jul 24 05:58:39 christefano3: check the logs Jul 24 05:58:56 christefano3: someone had this problem some weeks ago and reported it if I recall correctly Jul 24 05:59:09 destinal: where are the logs? Jul 24 05:59:10 don't know if Palm is looking into it or not Jul 24 05:59:20 christefano3: topic Jul 24 05:59:29 destinal: right, thanks Jul 24 05:59:31 destinal: what was the debug output of resizeToPixels(), when it's 40x60? Jul 24 05:59:42 destinal, Zuchmir2: ok orientation switching is working Jul 24 05:59:51 Zuchmir2: I think you're setting colums and rows backwards Jul 24 05:59:53 in stty Jul 24 05:59:59 oh, i changed the .JS as well to reflect 452 as the height for now Jul 24 06:00:10 it should be 40x60 not 60x40 Jul 24 06:00:17 destinal: the 1.1 update release notes say that the update adds support for self-signed certificates, but I haven't seen any change Jul 24 06:00:52 christefano3: interesting -- I haven't tried, sorry Jul 24 06:01:10 but that does sound like their fix doesn't work as expected Jul 24 06:01:40 destinal: yup, seems that way :( Jul 24 06:01:54 destinal: I'll check the logs once I find where they are Jul 24 06:01:56 2009-07-23 23:01:55 1013 term: pbuf:0xb5ad1540 Jul 24 06:01:56 2009-07-23 23:01:55 1021 term: width:40, height:60 Jul 24 06:02:22 stty -a says rows 40 columns 60 Jul 24 06:02:28 so it's reversed Jul 24 06:04:32 I pushed the landscape changes Jul 24 06:04:50 mrvc: does it fix row / col reversal? Jul 24 06:05:22 no, does not Jul 24 06:05:31 I'll find it Jul 24 06:06:59 yeah, Spawn_Stty takes rows and cols, not width and height Jul 24 06:07:55 ok, i followed the code in the Spawn_Stty(), and there it was ok as it was 40x40, lemme Jul 24 06:08:10 i've fixed that, i'll commit Jul 24 06:10:09 X1011: please keep the Accessing Linux link in the sidebar. even though users may only use it once, us new-user-helpers need to refer to it often. Jul 24 06:10:58 Zuchmir2: no good Jul 24 06:11:10 rows=40, columns=60 still in portrait Jul 24 06:11:33 should be rows=60 cols=40 Jul 24 06:11:36 just commited, also update the JS, mrvc changed that as well Jul 24 06:12:55 btw how do u type in landscape mode :-) Jul 24 06:13:11 Zuchmir2: I don't! Jul 24 06:13:20 but it is handy to view the output of top Jul 24 06:13:27 the rotation also "looses" the columns Jul 24 06:14:13 ie type cat file, durring landscape, then rotate to portrait, everything past column 40 is gone Jul 24 06:14:27 lol re: scary black screen Jul 24 06:14:49 guess i was using old js Jul 24 06:14:51 all is well now Jul 24 06:15:16 ok, now got to get down to the scrolling fun Jul 24 06:15:51 mrvc: implemented any arrow key stuff yet? Jul 24 06:16:03 destinal: no, good point Jul 24 06:16:23 rwhitby: are the majority of the wiki's users new-user-helpers? couldn't you just bookmark it or something? Jul 24 06:16:33 mrvc: can you please doule check the new()/delete that i've added, as well as look into mutex arund the flip orientation Jul 24 06:17:03 X1011: the other thing is that getting access to Linux is a lot about what webos-internals is all about, so it should hold a pride of place in the sidebar Jul 24 06:17:31 X1011: I fully agree with all your other sidebar proposed changes Jul 24 06:17:45 rwhitby: well it is still on the main page, i think more people look there than the sidebar Jul 24 06:18:43 Zuchmir2: the new/delete of the fontinfo? Jul 24 06:19:20 yes Jul 24 06:19:59 and CharBuffer::resize Jul 24 06:21:09 Zuchmir2: the new/delete looks fine Jul 24 06:22:28 Zuchmir2: doesn't seem like any mutex is necessary in NPP_SetWindow Jul 24 06:22:56 the mutex is just there to support pthread conditions Jul 24 06:23:33 which are necessary to make the reading thread wait until the drawing is complete Jul 24 06:24:19 destinal: what did we decide for arrow keys? Jul 24 06:24:44 what readin thread? Jul 24 06:24:45 destinal: gesture-area-hold and 2/4/6/8 was one option Jul 24 06:25:09 Zuchmir2: there is a thread that waits for data from the master pty and when it gets it forces a redraw Jul 24 06:25:24 oh, ok Jul 24 06:25:58 but that thread could be called durring rotation Jul 24 06:26:07 mrvc: why not symbol + 2/4/6/8 , or does symbol-hold not hold? Jul 24 06:26:22 which does a resize / which alloc/frees stuff Jul 24 06:26:41 Zuchmir2: yeah, but all the NPP calls are done in the same thread, so it can't switch orientation while it is redrawing Jul 24 06:26:46 er nevermind symbol is control and we don't want to confuse things Jul 24 06:27:24 but it can swicth orientartion and the key reading function is stoing the key in the wrng buffer Jul 24 06:28:09 Zuchmir2: the reading thread doesn't actually read, it just waits in a select Jul 24 06:28:25 Zuchmir2: the reading is actually done during the draw Jul 24 06:30:12 if user presses an 'A' durring rotation, where does the 'A' go? it goes to the tty and end of story? Jul 24 06:32:15 Zuchmir2: the A stays in the operating system's buffer until the draw reads it out Jul 24 06:32:27 well, not even that Jul 24 06:32:54 if it is a keypress, the keypress event won't get processed until the orientation change is done Jul 24 06:33:32 then the JS code will send the key to the plugin through a function call Jul 24 06:33:39 that function will send it to the master pty Jul 24 06:33:59 aha, ok so i guess it is thread safe Jul 24 06:34:01 the character will shortly come back Jul 24 06:34:21 the reading thread will see new data, and force a redraw, etc. Jul 24 06:34:35 ok Jul 24 06:35:22 trying to figure out what is the best way to deal with losing data past col 40 when orientation chages... Jul 24 06:35:26 I can't believe there is more activity in the watercooler than in here... official win! Jul 24 06:35:30 haha! Jul 24 06:35:31 destinal: where did you say the mail logs are? I followed http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/SSL_Certificate_Authorities to the letter and I'm still getting the same error Jul 24 06:35:39 ok back to work Jul 24 06:35:42 do we just use max(width, _width)? Jul 24 06:35:46 destinal: I'm happy to check the mail logs but I don't know where they are Jul 24 06:35:56 ... in CharBuffer::resize() Jul 24 06:36:31 is Pre slated for a video camera upgrade in the future? Jul 24 06:36:52 christefano3: check here Jul 24 06:36:53 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Decrypt_SSL_(trusted_man-in-the-middle_technique) Jul 24 06:37:17 I wrote an article on how to MITM your own SSL connections to trace palm updates, and it includes adding a cert Jul 24 06:37:22 ... and store a currentWidth which is returned by width() Jul 24 06:37:25 I know this works at least Jul 24 06:37:49 destinal: I added my server's root certificate to /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt and rebooted. no effect Jul 24 06:38:10 the CA cert's there? Jul 24 06:38:22 the format is odd Jul 24 06:38:24 Video recording by the end of the yes, yes Jul 24 06:38:31 notice my openssl x509 -in ca_cert.pem -text -noout|grep Subject:|sed 's/.*Subject: /subject= \//;s/, /\//g' >> $CERTSTORE Jul 24 06:38:43 destinal: allrighty I'll give that a go Jul 24 06:38:45 Zuchmir2: looks like you are trying to preserve the characters that are common between the new and old sizes, which would be min() like you have it Jul 24 06:38:48 wtf did I just write Jul 24 06:39:27 Zuchmir2: there is a problem in FontVal. I think you assumed that one of those 8s was the char width Jul 24 06:39:37 christefano3: go through the whole part of the wiki article I linked Jul 24 06:39:41 it's a bit more than I just pasted Jul 24 06:39:45 Zuchmir2: when it is actually the number of characters per row in the xpm Jul 24 06:39:51 under Make the pre trust your CA certificate Jul 24 06:40:11 yeah rows, is font_height Jul 24 06:40:36 oh, i see what u mean... Jul 24 06:40:45 good point Jul 24 06:40:55 destinal: will do Jul 24 06:41:44 destinal: can I skip to the "Make the pre trust your CA certificate" step? Jul 24 06:41:52 yes Jul 24 06:42:26 destinal: right-o, thanks Jul 24 06:42:38 christefano3: so this is not your server's certificate but the certificate of your company's CA certificate that signed the server cert, correct? Jul 24 06:43:05 ie an internal CA Jul 24 06:43:06 this is the certificate that my server uses to sign its own certificates Jul 24 06:43:11 ok cool Jul 24 06:43:35 destinal: I got it by exporting the certificate when Thunderbird and Firefox freak out Jul 24 06:43:44 :) yeah, that works Jul 24 06:43:53 destinal: okay, here goes nothing :) Jul 24 06:44:17 the 1.1 update seems to have prevented the SSH sessions from disconnecting when the screen goes off. nice Jul 24 06:47:53 it seems to have added my root certificate to the ca-certificates.crt file again Jul 24 06:48:08 yes Jul 24 06:48:18 it just looks different and the difference may be important Jul 24 06:48:38 I formatted my sed script carefully to make the lines look like what palm already had in there. Jul 24 06:48:40 it may not matter Jul 24 06:48:45 but at least I know it has worked Jul 24 06:48:52 (since I sniffed the service trace) Jul 24 06:48:59 I don't know if it matters but I'm rebooting the Pre Jul 24 06:49:52 ok, the glyps per line can be fixed Jul 24 06:49:58 glyphs Jul 24 06:50:53 Zuchmir2: did you push anything? I'm not sure if what you just said means you changed something or now Jul 24 06:50:54 not Jul 24 06:53:23 * rwhitby will try and set up gitosis and CIA reporting over the weekend ... Jul 24 06:53:50 same error, destinal. Jul 24 06:54:29 destinal: it looks like my server's root certificate needs to be replaced with a "legit" one :( Jul 24 06:55:29 damn this sucks. Jul 24 06:56:19 christefano3: I've used this method for the update service Jul 24 06:56:26 with a self signed CA cert Jul 24 06:56:36 so I don't understand what's wrong Jul 24 06:56:42 yeah, neither do I Jul 24 06:57:10 not yet, i'm about to Jul 24 06:57:10 the mail program is worthless to meif it can't deal with self-signed certificates Jul 24 07:01:12 I got a quick question - when you go into phone prefs and do a prl update, do the service bars completely disappear for a second and then come back. -for clarification, I'm talking about the icon completely being gone from the top right Jul 24 07:07:38 christefano: well it wouldn't be dealing with a self signed cert Jul 24 07:07:47 your cert is CA signed as good as any verisign makes Jul 24 07:07:56 your OS just has to trust your CA's / root cert Jul 24 07:08:05 which is what my lines should have given you Jul 24 07:09:13 destinal: right, I understand Jul 24 07:09:34 self signed server certs have no signer cert so whole different thing Jul 24 07:09:50 christefano: is this mail server you have publically accessible? Jul 24 07:10:11 ie can I connect to it to look at its presented cert chain? Jul 24 07:10:16 destinal: don't self-signed certificates have themselves as the signer? Jul 24 07:10:18 destinal: yes, it's at tachyon.spaceti.me Jul 24 07:10:56 christefano: yes, but that's different from ones being signed be a second (CA) cert which is what i think we're doing Jul 24 07:11:25 christefano: is it IMAPS? what port for mail Jul 24 07:11:34 uhmm, I don't understand. if it's signed by a second authority, then it's not self-signed, right? Jul 24 07:11:55 try IMAP on port 143 Jul 24 07:11:57 right, my doc is about having your own CA, signing it Jul 24 07:12:04 then adding the CA to your certificates file Jul 24 07:12:28 the server cert is signed by the ca cert- two different certs there Jul 24 07:12:36 the ca cert is self signed Jul 24 07:12:50 so the chain is CA cert -> server cert Jul 24 07:13:25 ah, I think I got it. my self-signed certificate for a domain is actually not signed by a certificate authority. it's signed by a server certificate that isn't signed by a CA. Jul 24 07:13:33 ah Jul 24 07:13:40 yeah webos will reject that Jul 24 07:13:53 make your own root cert and sign your server cert with it Jul 24 07:14:00 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Decrypt_SSL_(trusted_man-in-the-middle_technique) Jul 24 07:14:13 the script at the beginning sets it all up in one for a sample Jul 24 07:15:16 do I run that script on my server that's running my mail server? Jul 24 07:15:35 sure, whichever server you want to be your certificate authority Jul 24 07:15:50 it just needs openssl Jul 24 07:16:27 weird, I was under the impression that my server (running Virtualmin) was it's own CA signing certificates for all of the domains that it creates Jul 24 07:16:43 no, it's making self signed certs which are different Jul 24 07:16:47 the chain length is 1 Jul 24 07:18:23 hmm. I guess the line about "Support for self-signed certificates with multiple common names" in the 1.1 update release notes is misleading to say the least Jul 24 07:20:10 christefano: right, this is a workaround, nothing more Jul 24 07:20:49 well, it's worth a try. I got this device for mobile email among other things and I'm going to do what I can to make it work Jul 24 07:22:17 destinal: will I need to run the second command as "sh cert.sh tachyon.spaceti.me" or "sh cert.sh xxx" for every domain that my server hosts mail for? Jul 24 07:23:09 ssh cert.sh CN Jul 24 07:23:16 so whatever the hostname is is the last Jul 24 07:25:40 christefano: as a bonus having a CA certificate will protect you from actual man in the middle attacks whereas an attacker could spoof your self-signed ones Jul 24 07:26:16 christefano: you're deliberately using IMAP over SSL for security? Jul 24 07:26:25 because you have a regular IMAP port too Jul 24 07:28:13 destinal: yes, IMAP and TLS for security Jul 24 07:28:49 ok, so yeah, you'd want your own CA to help security, anyone can make a self signed cert that looks similar to yours, but nobody can make your CA's private key Jul 24 07:29:11 hmm, that's interesting. I hadn't heard of that before Jul 24 07:29:22 you're a fount of information! Jul 24 07:29:40 christefano: thanks. I do security for a living so it's my thing, as it were :) Jul 24 07:30:16 we all need it Jul 24 07:30:18 and yet not all of us can understand it Jul 24 07:30:54 and even fewer of us want to Jul 24 07:31:01 yeah, well, some products have nice point and click CA's, microsoft for instance, but not everyone wants to pay for that either Jul 24 07:31:13 or sometimes one prefers not to do things their way Jul 24 07:32:18 if you want to learn about setting up an SSL ca with openssl, there's lots of good information, this is just the bare minimum to get things working.. once you know it works you can always fine tune Jul 24 07:32:33 or just edit the names in the scripts that my article has you get Jul 24 07:32:35 sounds good Jul 24 07:33:35 christefano: wait, something just rang a bell in my mind Jul 24 07:33:52 Jamie Zawinski is the one who had the same problem you did, and he got it working Jul 24 07:33:54 http://jwz.livejournal.com/1055120.html Jul 24 07:33:57 I ran the script on my server, downloaded the sslcerts folder to my local machine, combined the pems to one file and imported it to the Pre Jul 24 07:34:07 so if you want self-signed, that might be the ticket Jul 24 07:34:11 yahoo! Jul 24 07:34:21 no idea what jarred that one loose Jul 24 07:35:18 I'll check that out Jul 24 07:35:31 will the webOS 1.1.0 update erase my custom icon.png for phone and my .js edits in the add/delete page launcher? Jul 24 07:35:49 someday you may want openssl CA of your own to improve security, but that day doesn't have to be today if you just need to get it working Jul 24 07:35:51 I did what the "Decrypt SSL" article laid out for generating a CA and server certificate but the mail program is still freaking out. I guess I'll reboot it Jul 24 07:36:15 christefano: you'd have to copy the certs over to the phone after that Jul 24 07:36:28 destinal: all of the or myhostname.pem? Jul 24 07:36:29 and install them with that procedure that's further down Jul 24 07:36:33 s/the/them Jul 24 07:36:35 the CA one Jul 24 07:38:51 only the CA one goes in your certs file on the pre, anything signed BY it will just work Jul 24 07:38:51 will the tachyon.pem (created with cat sslcerts/tachyon.spaceti.me-cert.pem sslcerts/private/tachyon.spaceti.me-key.pem) do? Jul 24 07:38:52 christefano: no thats for the server Jul 24 07:38:52 destinal: ahh, I need to regenerate all of my domain certificates using this new CA certificate, don't I Jul 24 07:38:53 anyone still running 1.0.4 by any chance? Jul 24 07:38:53 right Jul 24 07:38:59 but the tacyon.pem IS one Jul 24 07:39:01 a domain cert Jul 24 07:39:08 the SSL CA cert is a different one Jul 24 07:39:30 it's sslcerts/ca_cert.pem Jul 24 07:39:34 on the server Jul 24 07:39:46 copy sslcerts/ca_cert.pem from the server to your pre Jul 24 07:40:04 then run the commands to add it to /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt in the correct format Jul 24 07:40:21 gaks CAs make my head hurt =) running away Jul 24 07:40:28 (again, you don't have to do this if you just want to use the selfsigned certs you have now, you could just go to Jamie's fix) Jul 24 07:41:00 destinal: I'll check out Jamie's fix in a sec. it sounds like I need my server to be its own CA anyway Jul 24 07:41:17 jauderho: it helps to go through the pain :) Jul 24 07:41:30 not if I can avoid it =) Jul 24 07:44:02 okay, ca_cert.pem is on the Pre. now I need to regenerate all of my domain certificates Jul 24 07:44:12 christefano: well you already generated one Jul 24 07:44:21 that tachyon.pem Jul 24 07:45:32 destinal: just pushed those mods Jul 24 07:45:36 destinal: yeah, but tachyon is just the hostname. the server hosts mail for about a dozen different domains Jul 24 07:45:47 ah, ok Jul 24 07:46:20 well you can just keep running the command again for every domain name, at least thats fast. unfortunately, the CA cert you're using may have a generic name if you didn't edit the script Jul 24 07:46:23 now when you rotate back/forth it should keep the sttuff Jul 24 07:46:39 I think it says "WebScarab" or something by default Jul 24 07:46:44 Zuchmir2: cool Jul 24 07:47:44 LOL destinal Jul 24 07:48:01 http://jwz.livejournal.com/1055120.html < this missing sync section is awesome Jul 24 07:49:46 christefano: so it looks like the pre is smart and won't be insecure for using a self signed cert -- it requires you copy it to the device by hand Jul 24 07:50:14 most browsers, where you have to click accept the first time, you have no idea whether it's the real one or not, again, unless you copied it by hand with a secure mechanism Jul 24 07:50:39 a CA cert nicely fixed that problem and means you only have to install the single CA cert instead of all the self signed ones Jul 24 07:50:46 on the client Jul 24 07:52:57 Zuchmir2, mrvc: note that org.webosinternals.term is changing to org.webosinternals.terminal so look out next pull... consensus seemed to be terminal as a name, so there we go. Jul 24 07:54:10 ok Jul 24 07:55:32 destinal: I actually did that. I've copied the certificate to the Pre by hand and trusted it with the Certificate Manager Jul 24 07:56:10 christefano: ok, so the CA may be the only reasonable way to fix all your problems also.. Jul 24 07:56:15 that's weird that it doesn't accept Jul 24 07:56:39 yeah, looks lke it. I'm trying jwz' fix to see if it works. Jul 24 07:56:51 if it doesn't then I know what I'll need to do Jul 24 07:57:15 didn't work. Jul 24 07:59:40 ugh Jul 24 08:00:10 wth does upgrading eclipse mean having to reinstall everything from scratch? ARGH Jul 24 08:00:16 destinal: does the cert.sh script create certificates for domains I specify using the CA certificate that it just generated? Jul 24 08:00:16 ok Jul 24 08:00:57 i hate that the phone updates erase all of my edits Jul 24 08:01:01 christefano: yeah, the first time you run it it makes the CA cert AND the server / host cert. but if it detects that it already made the CA cert (it exists) it skips creating it and moves on Jul 24 08:01:07 then makes server / host cert Jul 24 08:01:48 so you can use it once with each hostname and should be good Jul 24 08:02:01 cool, here we go Jul 24 08:04:30 mrvc: btw do we really want Scary Black Screen at the top, or is that meant to be temporary? Jul 24 08:04:41 destinal: do you know off hand where Debian keeps its default CA certificate? Jul 24 08:06:02 -- /etc/ssl/certs probably, why? on debian you can just install it in your client usually depending Jul 24 08:06:15 in firefox it's easy, for instance Jul 24 08:06:51 although that would only be if you used that same client for mail I gues Jul 24 08:07:01 destinal: yes, I thought it was in /etc/ssl/certs but I'm wondering if I should replace one of those (/etc/ssl/certs/ca.pem perhaps?) with the ca_cert.pem that the cert.sh script just generated Jul 24 08:09:26 christefano: that should probably work, just back it up. debian may have some documentation on how to install it for that client Jul 24 08:09:30 did it work on the pre? Jul 24 08:10:23 destinal: oh, wait a sec. I suppose I should have tried importing the ca.pem file on the Pre Jul 24 08:10:46 destinal: is that the root CA certificate that it's been using, do you think? Jul 24 08:11:07 which it? Jul 24 08:11:29 /etc/ssl/certs/ca.pem Jul 24 08:11:35 there are dozens Jul 24 08:11:48 254 to be exact :) Jul 24 08:11:55 oh, hundreds, sorry Jul 24 08:11:59 destinal: what is the ipkg arch for packages in the Pre? Jul 24 08:12:10 sec Jul 24 08:12:25 (not "all", but for binary packages) Jul 24 08:13:22 yup yup Jul 24 08:13:37 destinal: I think something probably needs to be at the top to take care of the rounded corners, but it can certainly be somethin else Jul 24 08:13:52 destinal: since I'll want to be building the plugin for both Pre and Emulator Jul 24 08:14:09 mrvc: term app package has moved in git Jul 24 08:14:17 mrvc: can't we just put a border around it in the plugin? Jul 24 08:14:38 we could certainly just frame it in the scene html or whatever Jul 24 08:14:44 or div tag Jul 24 08:15:16 destinal: okay, I'm copying root.pem, dovecot.pem, ca.pem and ca-certificates.crt to the Pre and will see which one (if any) works Jul 24 08:15:19 yeah, seems like it would be handled through the scene.html Jul 24 08:15:39 christefano: I think that's horribly wrong, but ok Jul 24 08:15:58 destinal: I just made another build of the pre .so, want a copy? Jul 24 08:16:07 sure Jul 24 08:16:15 horribly wrong because it still allows for others to spoof my self-signed certificates? Jul 24 08:16:18 I really need to get my arm compiler working Jul 24 08:16:23 christefano: I think it won't work Jul 24 08:16:51 the pre already has a good ca-certificates.crt file you just want to add your new ca cert to the end with the commands on my wiki article Jul 24 08:17:07 mrvc: which toolchain and host OS are you using for cross-compilation? Jul 24 08:17:19 is that what the Certificate Manager does or would you manually do it instead? Jul 24 08:17:23 mrvc: (so I can replicate it in the preware.org build) Jul 24 08:17:40 christefano: manually with the commands in my wiki article I sent Jul 24 08:19:09 rwhitby: Jul 24 08:19:10 Architecture: armv7 Jul 24 08:20:11 and qemux86 for the emulator? Jul 24 08:20:20 i686 for the emulator Jul 24 08:20:43 * rwhitby checks the ipkg status file on the emulator .... Jul 24 08:21:07 root@qemux86:/usr/lib/ipkg/info# ipkg status pdfadapter|grep -i arch Jul 24 08:21:07 Architecture: i686 Jul 24 08:21:14 sweet - thx Jul 24 08:22:02 ok, have to get sleep Jul 24 08:22:10 will be dead tired in the morning ,alas Jul 24 08:22:32 destinal: I sent the .so -- it still has the old name though Jul 24 08:22:51 mrvc: plugin name hasn't changed has it? Jul 24 08:22:51 mrvc: you said your arm builds are done on the pre with a debian chroot right? Jul 24 08:23:07 still x-webosinternals-termplugin ? and termplugin.so ? Jul 24 08:23:11 rwhitby: no, termplugin is fine I suppose Jul 24 08:23:17 hasn't changed Jul 24 08:23:58 destinal: yep, I'm building on my pre Jul 24 08:24:02 mrvc: only the mojo app is called terminal, termplugin is fine for the plugin as most people won't even see it Jul 24 08:24:11 destinal: ok Jul 24 08:24:20 call it for hysterical reasons Jul 24 08:24:27 s/hysterical/historical/ Jul 24 08:24:27 destinal meant: call it for historical reasons Jul 24 08:24:38 hysterical LOL =) Jul 24 08:25:20 don't want to break everyone with an existing mojo app or who's working on enhancing the plugin right now Jul 24 08:25:23 for no good reason Jul 24 08:25:53 rwhitby: I installed the debian jail, and then installed the compiler and such inside there -- works great Jul 24 08:26:17 PRE_DEV_DIR=/pre/optware/cs08q1armel/toolchain/arm-2008q1 ? Jul 24 08:26:35 that's the same toolchain as optware, so I'll just use that. Jul 24 08:26:36 i'll ask again. does someone have the uname -a string from webos 1.0.4? Jul 24 08:26:50 i'm trying to figure out if the kernel code has changed. Jul 24 08:27:09 and need to wait for the patches to show up on opensource.palm.com Jul 24 08:28:48 yea Jul 24 08:29:26 sorry i just upgraded :/ Jul 24 08:30:43 doh Jul 24 08:30:57 I was going to try out the conservative governor Jul 24 08:31:11 but I guess I'll wait for the new patches to show up Jul 24 08:31:17 whats that Jul 24 08:31:36 there are different powersaving governors available on linux Jul 24 08:31:46 only 2 are compiled into the stock palm kernel Jul 24 08:31:52 ondemand and userspace Jul 24 08:32:07 ondemand is pretty aggressive about stepping up to max speed. Jul 24 08:32:12 whats the binary posted on precentral's forom.. Jul 24 08:32:26 that's a userspace binary. Jul 24 08:32:36 i'm talking about inside the kernel Jul 24 08:32:42 yea Jul 24 08:33:08 conservative is yet another governor. it slowly works its way up to higher speeds as opposed to ondemand. Jul 24 08:33:16 I wanted to see if it works better/more stable Jul 24 08:33:56 yea Jul 24 08:35:15 ive noticed instability, im eager to test the on eposted out , if i do not see any fried pres Jul 24 08:36:25 Packaged contents of i686 into /srv/preware/plugins/termplugin/build/x-webosinternals-termplugin_0.1.1_i686.ipk Jul 24 08:37:03 score Jul 24 08:37:04 jauderho: You will have some odd side effects if you enable DVFS, just FYI. Jul 24 08:37:12 dvfs? Jul 24 08:37:19 that file system Jul 24 08:37:21 dynamic frequency and voltage scaling Jul 24 08:37:27 :P Jul 24 08:37:29 ah Jul 24 08:37:33 ie: the CPUFreq goveners Jul 24 08:38:18 what are you seeing? Jul 24 08:39:02 hmm just found an interesting message http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-omap@vger.kernel.org/msg11898.html Jul 24 08:39:05 There will issues -- otherwise, it would be turned on by default. Jul 24 08:40:44 well yeah. Jul 24 08:41:25 I havent looked at kernel code in 10 years. lots changed =) Jul 24 08:43:13 mrvc: http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/i686/ Jul 24 08:43:42 it's not so much the kernel proper, but specific drivers and subsystems have some issues. Jul 24 08:46:20 * rwhitby waves to cdm and wonders if he's heard the PreCentral interview about webos-internals yet: http://media.libsyn.com/media/treocentral/palmcast68-5.mp3 Jul 24 08:47:06 I have gotten a link to it from a few folks -- not listened yet... Jul 24 08:47:10 night all Jul 24 08:47:11 wayyyy to busy this week!!! Jul 24 08:47:34 * rwhitby hopes that's due to doing release preparation for an unlocked GSM device in Australia ... Jul 24 08:48:00 cdm: I'll be interested in your feedback, if you're happy to give it. Jul 24 08:51:42 wgetting the mp3 directly onto the pre makes it stall =) Jul 24 08:51:49 oops Jul 24 08:52:01 dang that's a long mp3 Jul 24 08:54:04 it's a long interview. Jul 24 08:54:17 definitely a bay area commute candidate ... Jul 24 08:54:27 well downloaded... Jul 24 08:54:39 I'll play the next time I'm stuck in traffic Jul 24 08:54:45 * rwhitby worked in Santa Clara for a year back in 1990. Jul 24 08:55:03 ah Jul 24 08:55:32 the decided .au was a much better place to live :-) Jul 24 08:55:37 s/the/then/ Jul 24 08:55:38 rwhitby meant: then decided .au was a much better place to live :-) Jul 24 08:55:47 I'm loving the fact that deleting a mail on gmail removes the notification on the pre Jul 24 08:55:54 I prefer new zealand =) Jul 24 08:55:59 cooler landscape =) Jul 24 08:56:20 jauderho: yes, much more interesting landscape. too many sheep for my liking ;-) Jul 24 08:56:28 well there's that Jul 24 08:57:39 people with an emulator and who know what they are doing should be able to alpha-test the native terminal all from http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/ now ... Jul 24 08:57:53 does the 1.1 update let the music app remember where the app stopped? Jul 24 08:58:39 jauderho: dunno if Palm accepted our MIT licensed bookmark patch or not ... Jul 24 08:58:54 hmm. Jul 24 08:58:58 I'll ask next week. Jul 24 08:59:04 we licensed it that way specifically so they could just patch it in and run with it ... Jul 24 08:59:05 going to that palm thing down at palm Jul 24 08:59:16 I havent even seen that patch yet Jul 24 09:00:19 the ui really is sucky for the player Jul 24 09:01:02 * rwhitby bbl Jul 24 09:01:04 well the patch was not applied Jul 24 09:01:09 i'm out too Jul 24 09:01:34 but btw the javascript did get fixed up Jul 24 09:01:44 sunspider reports better results on my pre Jul 24 09:01:55 30s vs 40s previously Jul 24 09:17:48 have the scroll back working with some minor bugs... Jul 24 09:35:05 lol it is possible to run the distributed.net client on the pre Jul 24 09:38:09 hmm Jul 24 09:38:26 yeah Jul 24 09:38:41 but you really dont want to do that. Jul 24 09:38:42 :) Jul 24 09:39:43 heh Jul 24 09:39:50 runs at about the speed of a pentium II Jul 24 09:40:05 yeah Jul 24 09:40:14 id rather just run it on my quad server for you Jul 24 09:40:16 :P Jul 24 09:42:04 hahah. was just doing it for run Jul 24 09:42:21 what would be funny would be to get this running on all the palm pres... Jul 24 09:42:26 a pre cluster. lol Jul 24 09:52:11 yeah, denial of service our pres Jul 24 09:52:12 :P Jul 24 10:15:00 just uploaded term w/scroll Jul 24 10:23:31 ok Jul 24 11:21:34 Zuchmir2: latest version of termplugin and org.webosinternals.terminal uploaded to http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/ Jul 24 11:22:05 now to make the terminal package depend on the termplugin ... Jul 24 11:25:43 rwhitby, nice checking out now Jul 24 11:25:53 hah nice domain preware :D Jul 24 11:26:57 rwhitby, any instructions on how to install? Jul 24 11:32:05 jcrawford: for termplugin, unsure yet. try wget ; ipkg install Jul 24 11:32:29 for terminal, try wget ; ipkg -o /var install Jul 24 11:32:45 ok will try installing now :) Jul 24 11:33:20 my compilation is completely untested on the Pre, so be prepared for it to delete all your data and eat your children. Jul 24 11:33:40 oh hell then i wont do it :D Jul 24 11:33:54 you tested on what the emulator? Jul 24 11:34:11 i don't care about it eating my children but losing data i cannot have lol Jul 24 11:34:58 I haven't tested this latest version anywhere yet. In the words of Linus Torvalds: "Testing is for users" Jul 24 11:36:11 for the termplugin should i use the -o switch? Jul 24 11:36:17 * jcrawford will be a lab rat Jul 24 11:36:40 jcrawford: dunno about -o /var for termplugin, since that will install the files under /var/usr/lib/Plugins which is not the right place. Jul 24 11:36:52 what is the right place? Jul 24 11:37:06 on the other hand, not puttin -o /var will cause ipkg to mess with the built-in ipkg database Jul 24 11:37:20 not putting it makes ipkg output a ton of options Jul 24 11:37:23 the help ;) Jul 24 11:37:45 if you want to manually unpack the .ipkg, you can put the termplugin.so in /usr/lib/Plugins (I think) Jul 24 11:37:57 how do you manually unpack? Jul 24 11:38:03 this is all new to me heh Jul 24 11:38:16 maybe you should wait a bit then :-) Jul 24 11:38:39 ok well i have terminal installed, can you tell me how to remove it since i dont have the termplugin installed? Jul 24 11:38:55 ipkg -o /var remove org.webosinternals.terminal Jul 24 11:39:07 thanks Jul 24 11:39:18 ipkg -o /var ... is the same as using palm-install Jul 24 11:39:48 cool Jul 24 11:39:58 do you have any ss of the terminal client in action? Jul 24 11:40:08 my boss and I are waiting for this type of application :) Jul 24 11:40:13 hehe Jul 24 11:40:19 i just installed the terminal thing Jul 24 11:40:27 "Scary Black Screen" Jul 24 11:40:28 need to see if I can trick ipkg -o /var by putting a rogue symlink from /usr/lib/Plugins to /var/usr/lib/Plugins Jul 24 11:40:36 en0x: does it work? Jul 24 11:40:43 * jcrawford notes to rwhitby that he should not ever mention the terminal app if he does not want everyone jumping on him lol Jul 24 11:40:46 it just says scary black screen rwhitby Jul 24 11:40:56 en0x: did you install the termplugin? Jul 24 11:41:01 oh no Jul 24 11:41:15 let me do it Jul 24 11:41:18 you need that for the functionality, since it's a browser plugin like Classic Jul 24 11:43:17 i still have scary black screen do i need to reboot? Jul 24 11:44:10 well i will reboot Jul 24 11:45:06 en0x: you need to confirm the plugin has gone in /usr/lib/Plugins/termplugin.so Jul 24 11:45:12 its there Jul 24 11:45:13 if it went in /var/... it won't work. Jul 24 11:45:31 root@castle:/usr/lib/Plugins# ls Jul 24 11:45:31 termplugin.so Jul 24 11:45:46 en0x: what command did you use to install it? Jul 24 11:45:54 ipkg install package Jul 24 11:46:12 i dont use ipkg-opt Jul 24 11:46:40 that's fine. Jul 24 11:47:05 just realise that the termplugin is now registered in palm's built-in ipkg database, instead of the one in /var or the one in /opt Jul 24 11:47:43 even reboot didnt help still scary black screen Jul 24 11:47:44 ok, the terminal and termplugin just worked for me on the emulator Jul 24 11:47:56 en0x: did you hit return to see if you got a prompt? Jul 24 11:48:14 yap and nada Jul 24 11:48:40 ok, my cross-compilation for the Pre must be stuffed then Jul 24 11:48:48 anything in any log files? Jul 24 11:49:45 en0x: is "file" a valid command on the Pre? Jul 24 11:49:55 if so, tell me the output from file termplugin.so Jul 24 11:51:33 i hace to install file wait a sec Jul 24 11:52:15 may have to wait for mrvc to see how to debug my cross-compilation of the plugin Jul 24 11:52:39 oot@castle:/usr/lib/Plugins# file termplugin.so Jul 24 11:52:39 termplugin.so: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, not stripped Jul 24 11:53:09 en0x: can you run the same command on one of the other plugins from Palm? Jul 24 11:53:14 sure Jul 24 11:53:28 in /usr/lib/Plugins there is only termplugin.so hmm Jul 24 11:53:40 hmm - maybe I have the wrong directory Jul 24 11:54:03 libxtables.so.0.0.0: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, not stripped Jul 24 11:54:08 just an .so Jul 24 11:54:17 oops, should be /usr/lib/BrowserPlugins. Jul 24 11:54:25 move it over and see if it works then Jul 24 11:55:07 ok Jul 24 11:56:36 work Jul 24 11:56:38 s Jul 24 11:57:15 ok, the packages have been updated with the right paths Jul 24 11:57:42 no announcement outside this IRC channel yet please Jul 24 11:57:49 ok Jul 24 11:58:15 * rwhitby bbiab Jul 24 11:58:19 sweet so i can try it? Jul 24 11:58:23 * jcrawford goes to do this Jul 24 11:58:50 the font sucks a little Jul 24 11:58:59 is there a way to use it with the pre font nicer? Jul 24 11:59:07 it looks a little too boldish Jul 24 11:59:12 en0x: it's pre-alpha, you don't get to criticise it. be thankful it works at all. Jul 24 11:59:18 lol Jul 24 11:59:28 i didnt criticize it Jul 24 11:59:33 :( Jul 24 11:59:49 oh and it even works in landscape :) Jul 24 12:00:22 i get this Jul 24 12:00:23 Collected errors: Jul 24 12:00:23 Cannot find package x-webosinternals-termplugin. Jul 24 12:00:23 Check the spelling or perhaps run 'ipkg update' Jul 24 12:01:36 did u downloaded it? Jul 24 12:01:50 yes Jul 24 12:03:09 http://pastebin.com/m7b901fa1 Jul 24 12:05:03 try ipkg-opt install x--..... Jul 24 12:05:16 jauderho: (1.0.4) uname -a: Linux castle 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #1 175.1.15 armv7l unknown (not sure if you ever got your answer) Jul 24 12:05:23 same error Jul 24 12:06:06 jcrawford: so it looks like the term app is not for u Jul 24 12:06:07 :p Jul 24 12:06:14 damnnit Jul 24 12:06:23 how is it going to work for you but not me :( Jul 24 12:06:25 blows lol Jul 24 12:06:42 anyone in jersey and wanna take a party bus to a mets game on aug 1 :) Jul 24 12:07:37 hi Jul 24 12:07:46 from termapp and irssi Jul 24 12:07:46 all i have in my messages log file is this Jul 24 12:07:50 2009-07-24T12:05:04.592926Z [1532] castle local2.notice sudo: jcrawford : TTY=pts/0 ; PWD=/var/home/jcrawford ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/opt/bin/ipkg install /var/home/jcrawford/x-webosinternals-termplugin_0.1.1_armv7.ipk Jul 24 12:07:55 Guest64942, you suck haha Jul 24 12:08:01 i want IRC on my pre :( Jul 24 12:08:08 hehehe Jul 24 12:08:13 * jcrawford kicks u Jul 24 12:09:35 is this the correct file/size et? Jul 24 12:09:36 -rw-r--r-- 1 jcrawford jcrawford 70K Jul 24 08:01 x-webosinternals-termplugin_0.1.1_armv7.ipk Jul 24 12:09:56 should be Jul 24 12:10:43 1b4e9b12dfd2f59c518351743928b91b x-webosinternals-termplugin_0.1.1_armv7.ipk Jul 24 12:10:47 thats mine checksum Jul 24 12:13:28 how do i check the checksum? Jul 24 12:14:01 and did you use the i686 or the other one? Jul 24 12:14:19 other one Jul 24 12:14:30 do /opt/bin/ipkg-opt install x-webosinternals.... Jul 24 12:17:26 hmm still same error Jul 24 12:17:34 rwhitby, when you updated the paths did you break it? Jul 24 12:17:52 http://pastebin.com/m435259e9 Jul 24 12:18:01 says it cannot find the file when clearly the file is there Jul 24 12:18:02 :( Jul 24 12:18:06 guess it is not for me Jul 24 12:18:23 # Jul 24 12:18:24 jcrawford, patience Jul 24 12:18:25 Cannot find package x-webosinternals-termplugin. Jul 24 12:18:33 jcrawford: do : sudo su - Jul 24 12:18:40 sudo -i Jul 24 12:18:44 then cd ~jcrawford Jul 24 12:18:45 ok trying that Jul 24 12:18:46 cd Jul 24 12:18:52 and ipkg-opt install package Jul 24 12:19:21 * rwhitby wonders whether using ipkg-opt or ipkg is better ... Jul 24 12:19:34 no idea Jul 24 12:19:37 ipkg -o /var remove org.webosinternals.terminal Jul 24 12:19:42 woops Jul 24 12:19:47 root@castle:/var/home/jcrawford# ipkg-opt install x-webosinternals-termplugin_0.1.1_armv7.ipk Jul 24 12:19:54 Cannot find package x-webosinternals-termplugin. Jul 24 12:21:08 guess it just does not like me :( Jul 24 12:21:12 yap Jul 24 12:21:46 rwhitby, I have the ipk in /tmp Jul 24 12:21:50 en0x, are you using the latest os on the pre? Jul 24 12:22:00 jcrawford: yes Jul 24 12:22:11 1.0.4 Jul 24 12:22:12 I do ipkg-opt install x-webosinternals-termplugin_0.1.1_armv7.ipk Jul 24 12:22:36 and I get cannot find package -- that thing Jul 24 12:22:46 Rick_, glad i am not the only one :) Jul 24 12:22:48 same as jc Jul 24 12:22:52 maybe u need 1.1.0 Jul 24 12:23:12 idk works for me Jul 24 12:23:42 I'm sudo su - and I'm in the /tmp dir and my prompt is root. I also tried ipkg-opt install ./thatthing Jul 24 12:24:17 going to try straight ipkg Jul 24 12:24:23 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 24 12:24:54 rwhitby, straight ipk works ipkg-opt does not work. Jul 24 12:25:15 rather ipkg Jul 24 12:25:15 Rick__: see the new wiki page for installation instructions Jul 24 12:25:45 ok Jul 24 12:26:30 wtf Jul 24 12:26:34 ipkg does not work for me ;( Jul 24 12:26:57 jcrawford, delete the file Jul 24 12:27:04 now, go to the wiki and follow that step by step Jul 24 12:27:23 i am already trying that :) Jul 24 12:29:40 now to work out how to remove that 'mv' step Jul 24 12:30:24 i am still getting this Jul 24 12:30:24 Cannot find package x-webosinternals-termplugin. Jul 24 12:30:46 rwhitby: whouldn't it be easeier to just link it? Jul 24 12:31:04 en0x: yeah, probably Jul 24 12:31:15 jcrawford, are you on 1.1? Jul 24 12:32:01 i think he is on 1.0.4 Jul 24 12:32:12 http://pastebin.ca/1505711 Jul 24 12:32:18 oh i am on 1.0.4 Jul 24 12:32:20 there's some tiny chance it might make a differenc? Jul 24 12:32:27 how do i get 1.1? Jul 24 12:32:40 go to update on your pre and tell it to update.... Jul 24 12:32:41 checking for updates now Jul 24 12:32:54 warning: Takes 20 minutes Jul 24 12:33:23 jcrawford: type "which ipkg" Jul 24 12:33:34 webOS version is not the problem Jul 24 12:33:48 rwhitby, why is the install in the instructions twice? Jul 24 12:33:56 jcrawford: your ipkg is pointing to optware feeds for some reason instead of preware Jul 24 12:34:30 Rick__: which install? Jul 24 12:34:32 updating now Jul 24 12:34:37 did not know there was a new update :D Jul 24 12:34:40 the wiki page Jul 24 12:34:55 jcrawford: you'll be waiting a long time for this update you realise Jul 24 12:35:00 /opt/bin/ipkg Jul 24 12:35:00 nevermind Jul 24 12:35:05 one installs terminal Jul 24 12:35:08 the other installs the plugin Jul 24 12:35:10 got it Jul 24 12:35:11 yea i see it will take forever even over wifi heh Jul 24 12:35:23 jcrawford: ah, have you modified /etc/profile.d/optware to put /opt first in the path by chance? Jul 24 12:35:23 20 minutes through the whole process. Jul 24 12:35:36 rwhitby, nope Jul 24 12:35:45 jcrawford: cat /etc/profile.d/optware Jul 24 12:36:19 PATH=$PATH:/opt/bin Jul 24 12:36:19 if [ "`id -u`" -eq 0 ]; then Jul 24 12:36:19 PATH=$PATH:/opt/sbin Jul 24 12:36:19 fi Jul 24 12:36:31 jcrawford: echo $PATH Jul 24 12:36:41 http://pastebin.ca/1505714 Jul 24 12:36:53 I have the same probvlem rwhitby can't install the plugin. Jul 24 12:37:05 /usr/local/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/opt/sbin Jul 24 12:37:23 now I know why we use webos.pastebin.com, cause there's no soft porn ads on it Jul 24 12:37:32 are there a lot of differences between 1.0.4 and 1.1.0 Jul 24 12:37:33 jcrawford: that path is *wrong* Jul 24 12:37:50 rwhitby, that is how my pre came, i have not altered my paths at all Jul 24 12:38:03 Rick__: echo $PATH Jul 24 12:38:26 /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin::/opt/bin:/opt/sbin Jul 24 12:38:38 en0x: echo $PATH Jul 24 12:38:39 which is the result of the next-steps script Jul 24 12:39:09 except I have that double :: in there for some reason... Jul 24 12:39:19 /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin::/opt/bin:/opt/sbin Jul 24 12:39:21 jcrawford: when your path is correct, it will work. Jul 24 12:39:22 :) Jul 24 12:39:34 Rick__, en0x: thx Jul 24 12:39:50 rwhitby, mine is the same as en0x and it doesn't work Jul 24 12:39:54 same error as jv Jul 24 12:39:55 jc Jul 24 12:39:59 rwhitby, how would i change that? Jul 24 12:39:59 [; Jul 24 12:40:03 Rick__: which ipkg Jul 24 12:40:08 termplyugin Jul 24 12:40:20 Rick__: "which ipkg" Jul 24 12:40:36 straight ipkg off the wiki page cut and paste Jul 24 12:40:51 ipkg -o /var install x-webosinternals-termplugin Jul 24 12:41:02 "cannot find..." same as jc Jul 24 12:41:23 but the second one -- the mojo part installed fine Jul 24 12:41:29 so I HAVE to be looking at the feed. Jul 24 12:41:37 the instructions are now path-independent. Jul 24 12:42:03 Rick__: did you miss the armv7 feed? Jul 24 12:42:28 echo "src/gz all http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/armv7" >> /var/etc/ipkg/preware.conf Jul 24 12:42:30 that? Jul 24 12:42:34 yep Jul 24 12:42:46 Rick__: /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var list | grep termplugin Jul 24 12:43:06 nothing Jul 24 12:43:16 Rick__: /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var update, then repeat Jul 24 12:43:20 using ipkg or ipkg-opt ? Jul 24 12:43:31 bpadalino: /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var Jul 24 12:43:45 simulating palm-install Jul 24 12:43:57 ah Jul 24 12:44:31 infflating http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all/Packages.gz Jul 24 12:44:36 i haven't been around much the last week or so :( Jul 24 12:44:37 updated list Jul 24 12:45:08 ipkg -o /var list | grep term ====> nohting Jul 24 12:45:27 installing 1.1.0 now Jul 24 12:45:34 when was 1.1.0 released? Jul 24 12:45:34 sorry Jul 24 12:45:36 liked Jul 24 12:45:42 and where can i see the changelog :) Jul 24 12:45:45 jcrawford: yesterday Jul 24 12:45:49 nice Jul 24 12:45:50 jcrawford, last night about 7 pm eastern Jul 24 12:45:50 omg man where u live? Jul 24 12:46:01 i live in the Boston area Jul 24 12:46:09 me too and i got it yesterday Jul 24 12:46:47 rwhitby, if I do the full list without the grep, I see org.webosinternals.kaery.app.mynotifications and org.webosinternals.terminal but NOT the plugin Jul 24 12:47:20 en0x, you are in the boston area? Jul 24 12:47:41 Rick__: are you *sure* you're running /usr/bin/ipkg ? Jul 24 12:47:47 jcrawford: yes Jul 24 12:47:58 nice you lived here long? Jul 24 12:48:14 i moved here about 18 mos ago, currently living in lynn which blows Jul 24 12:48:44 8yrs Jul 24 12:49:15 moved in from poland Jul 24 12:49:46 rwhitby, followed your instructions on the wiki by cut and paste with the /usr/bin at the front (pth independent) Jul 24 12:49:49 and no diff Jul 24 12:49:57 error 4 Jul 24 12:50:00 not found Jul 24 12:50:27 do the instructions work for anyone else? Jul 24 12:50:34 i havent tested Jul 24 12:50:35 :p Jul 24 12:50:44 let me remove terminal and install it again Jul 24 12:50:53 en0x: thx Jul 24 12:50:56 so far, rwhitby we're two for two fail. Jul 24 12:51:24 where are the instructions ? Jul 24 12:51:35 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 24 12:52:30 rwhitby: ok here is the thing Jul 24 12:53:20 somehow it doesnt download info from http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/armv7 when u do /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var update Jul 24 12:53:37 nodnod Jul 24 12:53:45 yep that's the effect that I'm seeing Jul 24 12:54:12 but it's listed in /var/etc/ipkg/preware.conf Jul 24 12:54:13 rwhitby: http://wklej.org/id/125509/ Jul 24 12:55:34 instructions are now fixed. edit your armv7 line in preware.conf Jul 24 12:55:40 mine is the same, except on my preware.conf the arm7 line is FIRST and the all is SECOND and I get the result. Jul 24 12:56:01 see- i switched Jul 24 12:56:02 then updated Jul 24 12:56:05 and it downloaded the other one Jul 24 12:56:07 ha! i found the bug Jul 24 12:56:08 and now i see it Jul 24 12:56:14 but i don't see the other feed Jul 24 12:56:40 ha! Jul 24 12:56:40 found the bug Jul 24 12:56:53 what? Jul 24 12:57:02 bpadalino: you have two lines, one for all and one for armv7 ? Jul 24 12:57:17 yes Jul 24 12:57:30 and the second word on each is all and armv7 respectively, not all and all Jul 24 12:57:37 root@castle:/var/etc/ipkg# cat preware.conf Jul 24 12:57:37 src/gz all http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/armv7 Jul 24 12:57:39 src/gz all http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all Jul 24 12:57:50 change the second word on first line to armv7 Jul 24 12:58:02 yap thats what i found Jul 24 12:58:07 but stuill no go Jul 24 12:58:27 http://wklej.org/id/125510/ Jul 24 12:58:37 now it seemed to download both Jul 24 12:58:41 when doing the update Jul 24 12:58:47 update now gets both Jul 24 12:58:53 en0x: second line needs >> not > Jul 24 12:58:57 trying the install Jul 24 12:58:58 org.webosinternals.terminal - 0.1.1 - Terminal Jul 24 12:58:58 x-webosinternals-termplugin - 0.1.1 - Terminal Service Plugin Jul 24 12:59:01 shows both Jul 24 12:59:33 ... hrm Jul 24 13:00:11 http://webos.pastebin.com/m2300fb7c Jul 24 13:00:21 don't you love how the two names just line up :-) Jul 24 13:00:23 the first two lines are from the previous ipkg -o /var list Jul 24 13:00:31 any progress Rick_ ? Jul 24 13:00:35 then the install seems to fail ? Jul 24 13:01:13 list lists them both Jul 24 13:01:14 could still be an arch problem if Palm's ipkg doesn't have armv7 encoded in the binary Jul 24 13:01:17 now to try installing Jul 24 13:01:53 can someone do strings on /usr/bin/ipkg and look for something like armv7 (or a similar architecture identifier) ? Jul 24 13:01:55 CRAP Jul 24 13:02:03 nothing rwhitby Jul 24 13:02:04 rwhitby, same thing return value 4 Jul 24 13:02:15 can someone do strings on /usr/bin/ipkg and look for something like armv7 (or a similar architecture identifier) ? Jul 24 13:02:22 rwhitby, nothing Jul 24 13:02:32 hmm Jul 24 13:03:04 strings /usr/bin/ipkg | grep arm Jul 24 13:03:05 ==> nothing Jul 24 13:03:17 oh, libipkg it looks like it links against Jul 24 13:03:27 morning Jul 24 13:03:30 yeah, try that Jul 24 13:03:33 morning puff Jul 24 13:03:39 no arm .. Jul 24 13:03:53 MOST ANNOYING -- hate it when you have something that works and you can't INSTALL it. Jul 24 13:04:05 I'm starting to know how the vista64 folks feel. Jul 24 13:04:12 cat /etc/ipkg/arch.conf Jul 24 13:04:27 cat /etc/ipkg/arch.conf Jul 24 13:04:28 arch all 1 Jul 24 13:04:28 arch any 6 Jul 24 13:04:29 arch noarch 11 Jul 24 13:04:31 arch arm 16 Jul 24 13:04:33 arch armv7 21 Jul 24 13:04:35 arch castle 26 Jul 24 13:05:01 oops wrongwindow same here Jul 24 13:05:15 ln -s /etc/ipkg/arch.conf /var/etc/ipkg/ Jul 24 13:05:20 then try again Jul 24 13:05:52 bingo Jul 24 13:05:56 yeppers Jul 24 13:06:26 rebooting now Jul 24 13:06:30 ditto Jul 24 13:06:50 rwhitby, why not put the reboot line in the instructions as "now, reboot by typing "reboot" .... Jul 24 13:06:56 windows users... noobs. Jul 24 13:07:03 that way they don't have to do a full power off Jul 24 13:07:09 Rick__: sure Jul 24 13:07:22 I hate how slow this boot is Jul 24 13:07:39 blame the fileindexer Jul 24 13:07:42 wish we had a character mode boot so at least I could see the crud going by on eht screen. Jul 24 13:07:44 just a rescan may well be enough - someone should test Jul 24 13:07:52 going to try the terminal on 1.1.0 now Jul 24 13:07:59 jc Jul 24 13:08:02 new instructions. Jul 24 13:08:08 jcrawford: instructions should be good enough now Jul 24 13:08:08 will check the wiki :) Jul 24 13:08:11 same url? Jul 24 13:08:14 yep Jul 24 13:08:39 start all the way at the top jcrawford the new part is line 2 Jul 24 13:09:12 still pulsing Jul 24 13:09:35 works Jul 24 13:09:48 HOT DAMN!!! Jul 24 13:09:50 works Jul 24 13:10:01 aspect switching works Jul 24 13:10:05 haha Jul 24 13:10:05 rotate works Jul 24 13:10:09 scrolling needs some help Jul 24 13:10:14 YIPPY SKIPPY Jul 24 13:10:31 rebooting Jul 24 13:10:34 seems to have worked now Jul 24 13:10:37 you guys are great :) Jul 24 13:10:45 so who wrote this rwhitby ? Jul 24 13:10:52 he did Jul 24 13:10:55 :) Jul 24 13:10:56 not me Jul 24 13:10:59 ty for all the work rwhitby Jul 24 13:11:07 I just packaged the work of others Jul 24 13:11:08 oh? Jul 24 13:11:18 well thank you to all who have contributed to this application Jul 24 13:11:19 it looks promising Jul 24 13:11:27 it is going to make my life much easier :D Jul 24 13:11:47 destinal-zzzz, PuffTheMagic, mrvc, and some others too .... Jul 24 13:11:59 uh Jul 24 13:12:14 what's the terminfo for this, 'cause apparently it's not ansi... Jul 24 13:12:39 it's a dumb terminal, which we are very lucky works at all. Jul 24 13:12:52 profiler definitely needs to be run on it .. as it's very very slow to respond and uses 90% CPU when scrolling Jul 24 13:12:54 ahhh Jul 24 13:12:56 good to know Jul 24 13:13:17 and we had better put that on the wiki before some idiot tries to run nano and gets a screen full of ansi gibberish Jul 24 13:13:25 ut oh Jul 24 13:13:28 followed the instructiuons Jul 24 13:13:33 just get Scary Black Screen Jul 24 13:13:42 so, it's the pre equivalent of novacom -t open tty:// :-) Jul 24 13:13:42 hmmm 90% Jul 24 13:13:49 Rick__: indeed Jul 24 13:13:49 it didnt use 90% in the mu Jul 24 13:13:51 jcrawford, hit enter several times Jul 24 13:13:53 emu Jul 24 13:13:58 i ran top and checked Jul 24 13:14:07 and i had 95% idle Jul 24 13:14:10 oohh, it's 90% when scrolling Jul 24 13:14:24 the terminal scrolls now? Jul 24 13:14:28 PuffTheMagic: scrolling is hot off the press I believe Jul 24 13:15:18 *this* is the example of why closed source single person projects always lose :-) 24x7 worldwide development. Jul 24 13:15:20 mine doesn't scroll Jul 24 13:15:31 oh, mine does Jul 24 13:15:44 but i did an ipkg list Jul 24 13:15:45 ls -all ran off the bottom of the screen... no scrolling Jul 24 13:15:54 flick to scroll Jul 24 13:16:10 oh duch preapp Jul 24 13:16:12 gosh Jul 24 13:16:33 duch? Jul 24 13:16:36 that's going to be - uh - blitting the pixbuff and transfering to mojo . wow. amazing that it works at all Jul 24 13:16:42 duh typo Jul 24 13:17:29 wtf my pre just rebooted byitself Jul 24 13:17:31 yeah, that was spectacular Jul 24 13:17:31 does scroll on flick Jul 24 13:17:34 good job Jul 24 13:17:40 amazing Jul 24 13:17:47 heheheh Jul 24 13:18:05 ON TO X-WINDOWS! hehehehehe .l... Jul 24 13:18:06 oh wait Jul 24 13:18:10 To see who to thank, look at http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/commits/master Jul 24 13:18:10 luna crashed Jul 24 13:18:28 I forgot Zuchmir2 as well Jul 24 13:18:44 no offense to you floss sensibilities, but I think a credits line at the bottom of the wiki page is appropriate.... Jul 24 13:19:22 all working Jul 24 13:19:26 hah could not get out of the top command Jul 24 13:19:29 hitting q did nothing Jul 24 13:19:32 had to close the app :D Jul 24 13:20:03 jc - the sym key is control Jul 24 13:20:20 which key is escape ? Jul 24 13:20:36 good GOD I'm impressed. Jul 24 13:20:39 maybe no escape yet Jul 24 13:20:42 who know Jul 24 13:20:51 sure - emacs can work but vi gets screwed :( Jul 24 13:21:33 ok smoke time Jul 24 13:21:38 i like the terminal icon too Jul 24 13:21:38 WOW I cant believe my wish came true, the pre fairies did fix all the mods! Jul 24 13:21:46 bpadalino: :D Jul 24 13:21:52 yay Jul 24 13:21:53 thats like my only contrib to term Jul 24 13:21:57 lol Jul 24 13:22:07 24/7 worldwide programming -- open source wins again Jul 24 13:22:32 PuffTheMagic, they also serve.... Jul 24 13:22:53 term now depricates commander. which is a DAMN GOOD THING Jul 24 13:23:36 it's pre-alpha software... but I don't think we can keep it secret. It's going to leak. rwhitby someone ought to make an official announcement Jul 24 13:23:46 peple read these logs Jul 24 13:25:07 k, reading backlogs.... you people are my heroes Jul 24 13:25:16 did anyone figure out how to install the .so fileyet Jul 24 13:25:20 in a ipk file Jul 24 13:26:24 yes Jul 24 13:26:30 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 24 13:26:42 now we just need a terminal service Jul 24 13:26:50 so that other apps can talk to the terminal and execute commands Jul 24 13:27:00 so that we can get things like directory listings, files etc. Jul 24 13:27:05 then a file manager could be done :) Jul 24 13:27:16 jcrawford, that's dead simple now. Jul 24 13:27:36 Rick__, how so? You still need a service that you could call from the app Jul 24 13:27:45 modify commander service to ONLY accept dir commands, and write your file browser against it. Jul 24 13:28:03 i'm not even sure what commander service is lol Jul 24 13:28:21 ok i am missing something Jul 24 13:28:27 oh nm Jul 24 13:28:28 oh jcrawford you're WEEKS behing.... :-) Jul 24 13:28:33 rofl guess so Jul 24 13:28:33 behind Jul 24 13:28:35 symlink Jul 24 13:28:40 right Jul 24 13:28:41 been too busy with work to really dive into the internal stuff Jul 24 13:28:49 without the symlink PuffTheMagic install failed Jul 24 13:28:51 also been trying to read books to get up to speed on JS Jul 24 13:29:07 commander and flashlight were the first services written Jul 24 13:29:19 against public dbus Jul 24 13:29:46 and no one has managed to do an ipkg of a service... Jul 24 13:29:56 ipkg this! Jul 24 13:30:08 :-) Jul 24 13:30:15 * Rick__ slightly giddy with amazement Jul 24 13:30:21 Rick__: it could be done just like this plugin Jul 24 13:30:23 i think we're not leveraging novacom enough for this terminal/execution stuff Jul 24 13:30:29 yep, it could Jul 24 13:30:57 novacom runs inherently on the pre .. why not use it and get the text/binary it spits back ? Jul 24 13:31:00 bpadalino: yeah, I'm sneaking getting the preware feed onto people's devices using Terminal as the hook. Jul 24 13:31:02 bpadalino if you want to write a novaterm for windows I'm all for it Jul 24 13:31:40 rick, i am thinking to get rid of the pixel buffer stuff ... Jul 24 13:31:49 ??? Jul 24 13:31:55 bpadalino: tell me more about localhost novacom on the Pre ? Jul 24 13:32:01 call novacom _from_ the pre? Jul 24 13:32:06 rick, yeah Jul 24 13:32:12 rwhitby, it opens the same tcp port i am pretty sure Jul 24 13:32:20 that's uh er -- twisted. Jul 24 13:32:21 bpadalino: but how does it help here? Jul 24 13:32:33 i made a ipk for DevTools Jul 24 13:32:35 but never pushed it Jul 24 13:32:36 doh Jul 24 13:32:40 from the browser, all we get are AJAX calls for getting data, right ? Jul 24 13:32:40 because ajaxterm could talk to the underlying os through the novacom protocal with a tiny plugin Jul 24 13:32:45 so we're limited to http Jul 24 13:32:53 PuffTheMagic: I can package that now into the preware feed Jul 24 13:32:55 write a small layer which opens a socket, and translates Jul 24 13:32:57 it's an alternate method Jul 24 13:33:28 but the web page gets the text ... so you aren't doing any of the display problems yourself .. Jul 24 13:33:34 but they NEEDED to do the pixbuff term, 'cause they NEEDED to learn how to do low level graphics to write a doc for game porters Jul 24 13:33:36 you also get copy/paste kind of for free Jul 24 13:33:45 rick, that's understandable Jul 24 13:33:55 I already have dropbear working and accepting connections over wifi. What exactly do I change to get it to accept ssh connections over EVDO? Jul 24 13:34:02 i am not saying the efforts thus far are no good Jul 24 13:34:03 bpadalino yes, we run ajaxterm on the mojo.... and a tiny plugin to call novacom to pass info back and forth Jul 24 13:34:14 oh you already do that ? Jul 24 13:34:21 it's like a tiny tiny plugin and a few line mod to ajaxterm Jul 24 13:34:38 WillJitsu: there's a wiki page for that Jul 24 13:34:48 bpadalino no we' don't already to that Jul 24 13:34:52 oh Jul 24 13:34:59 we've been talking about what the backend for ajaxterm should be Jul 24 13:35:10 'cause installing php or pythin seems massive for just that Jul 24 13:35:12 but nova Jul 24 13:35:16 that's BRILLIANT Jul 24 13:35:59 rwhitby, who was it that was working on the ajaxterm last night ???? Jul 24 13:36:18 dunno Jul 24 13:36:23 destinal pointed out that he should keep going because muyltiple solutosn were a good idea. Jul 24 13:36:25 Darn darn darn. Jul 24 13:36:49 Quantsini: Jul 24 13:36:59 Rick__: ^^ Jul 24 13:37:22 thanks rwhitby Jul 24 13:37:38 * PuffTheMagic is disapointed 1.1.0 is not out on o.p.c yet Jul 24 13:37:56 Quantsini, contact bpadalino Jul 24 13:38:02 hi Jul 24 13:38:30 rwhitby: I'm looking at this page: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Dropbear_Install. Do I use vi to edit the optware-dropbear file and reboot or is that just a script that edits another file? Jul 24 13:39:20 WillJitsu: that page is obsoleted by the optware-bootstrap.sh script Jul 24 13:39:47 you need to find the line in the optware-dropbear script that opens the etho and edit that line to the other port Jul 24 13:39:53 and then execute that line from the command line Jul 24 13:39:59 which opens the SECOND port. Jul 24 13:40:21 and if you get it done, edit the wiki page to make the process crystal clear Jul 24 13:40:29 (((pay it forward. ))) Jul 24 13:40:41 ok I'm running late for work, so I'll tackle it tonight. thanks guys Jul 24 13:40:44 pff to work now -- skipping -- happy Jul 24 13:40:44 WillJitsu: didn't the optware-bootstrap.sh script ask you about evdo? Jul 24 13:40:52 rwhitby, no Jul 24 13:41:32 rwhitby, are you going to contact dieter with a release? 'cause I don't think we want to let dieter get beat by engaget to this. Jul 24 13:41:35 rwhitby: I've had my Pre rooted for quite some time now. the optware-bootstrap.sh didn't exist when I set all this up Jul 24 13:41:50 infobot Jul 24 13:41:55 WillJitsu: ah, ok - read the optware-bootstrap.sh script then Jul 24 13:42:08 ok cool Jul 24 13:42:15 Rick__: already pinged him, but he's not around Jul 24 13:42:18 ok Jul 24 13:44:57 i wonder how hard it would be to add different IM services Jul 24 13:46:53 We need JackieRipper to write a terminal-bootstrap.sh script ... Jul 24 13:47:05 ow ow ow -- good idea Jul 24 13:47:39 he's on- you could pm him so he sees it when he gets back to the irc window Jul 24 13:49:00 rwhitby: good progress! Jul 24 13:50:25 destinal: I did nothing other than some packaging Jul 24 13:50:52 "you guys are the real heroes" ;-) Jul 24 13:56:38 im a hero Jul 24 13:56:41 pm me money Jul 24 13:57:48 :> Jul 24 13:58:39 OFX for you momma! Jul 24 13:58:43 Rick__: I think it's worth at least alpha now, pre-alpha was sooo yesterday Jul 24 13:58:48 :P Jul 24 13:59:32 * destinal runs off to work. Jul 24 13:59:34 bbl Jul 24 14:10:40 hey, does anyone have tethering working since 1.1.0, i hadnt tried it before and im trying it now but its not exactly working out Jul 24 14:11:01 some techniques work, others require re-patching Jul 24 14:11:20 we not allowed to talk about tethering here Jul 24 14:11:34 right Jul 24 14:11:36 are you sure? cause the instructions are on this web site Jul 24 14:11:36 that's what I ment Jul 24 14:11:44 not on THIS web site they didn't Jul 24 14:11:53 you were on precentral Jul 24 14:11:56 this is webos-internals Jul 24 14:11:56 oh, the usbnet instructions are Jul 24 14:12:05 yes those are on here Jul 24 14:12:08 thats only half of it Jul 24 14:12:09 whoops Jul 24 14:12:14 as you say. Jul 24 14:12:22 but still... off to precentral with you Jul 24 14:12:24 yeah Jul 24 14:12:27 no more of that talk Jul 24 14:12:32 hehehehe Jul 24 14:12:48 Ok, I edited the accessing linux page again. Jul 24 14:12:53 at least the usbnet part works Jul 24 14:13:09 someone go look in the nice blue box and check that what I wrote makes sense. Jul 24 14:13:10 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux Jul 24 14:14:05 J0sH: there are a few ways to Teather Jul 24 14:14:09 idk which way you are doing it Jul 24 14:14:14 ill tell you Jul 24 14:14:25 PuffTheMagic, move to private message please Jul 24 14:14:26 i edited pmconnectionmanager Jul 24 14:14:33 J0sH, Jul 24 14:14:37 we just said.... Jul 24 14:14:39 yeah Jul 24 14:14:50 lips sealed Jul 24 14:14:57 jeeeeeeez kids these days...... :-) Jul 24 14:15:29 this that talk thats not allowed? didnt realize Jul 24 14:15:35 ((looks over the curve of name popularity for the last few decades... guesses that j0sh is 22.)) Jul 24 14:15:36 s/this/is/ Jul 24 14:15:36 PuffTheMagic meant: is that talk thats not allowed? didnt realize Jul 24 14:15:40 looks good, can we link to the /putty page from there Jul 24 14:16:14 you could put a link to the /putty page in the next steps section. Jul 24 14:16:16 Does anybody know how to use webos doctor that can help me out? Jul 24 14:16:20 the Detailed walk through uses putty Jul 24 14:16:29 Guest68889, go. Jul 24 14:16:39 what do you need Guest68889 Jul 24 14:16:44 ok Jul 24 14:16:49 puff, i detailed it in PM Jul 24 14:17:14 after the update i lost my roam ability so i re did and lost my prefences page Jul 24 14:17:26 so i restored using the webos doctor Jul 24 14:17:32 now i have no data Jul 24 14:17:45 yeah, it does that =[ Jul 24 14:17:50 and i cant get past the sign for the palm pre profile Jul 24 14:17:55 any ideas? Jul 24 14:17:58 ohh man.... Jul 24 14:17:59 as in the things you uploaded to the usb drive are gone? Jul 24 14:18:10 webos docctor deletes EVERYTHING Jul 24 14:18:15 it's a re-format of the machine Jul 24 14:18:18 yes i am aware of that Jul 24 14:18:23 ok Jul 24 14:18:26 i can even use the phone Jul 24 14:18:29 cant* Jul 24 14:18:31 ok Jul 24 14:18:37 so what's up on the screen? Jul 24 14:19:02 sign in failed, you need to be connected to your wireless service provider to sign in Jul 24 14:19:15 by the way, you didn't need to do the dr. you could have fixed the changes you made to the re-do Jul 24 14:19:19 yes Jul 24 14:19:31 i learned of that after i already started the process Jul 24 14:19:32 but anyway.... Jul 24 14:19:39 im a noob :( Jul 24 14:19:42 you're going to have to get to a sprint service area Jul 24 14:19:46 i am Jul 24 14:19:56 that's not what it says.... Jul 24 14:20:07 im out of houston Jul 24 14:20:08 it says you are not connected to your wireless service provider. Jul 24 14:20:20 i drove alll over the place last night and this morning Jul 24 14:20:27 you do NOT have the roaming logo up? Jul 24 14:20:29 everywhere that i always get a signal Jul 24 14:20:32 and you have bars of service Jul 24 14:20:33 no Jul 24 14:20:34 yes Jul 24 14:20:36 ok Jul 24 14:20:37 but no evdo Jul 24 14:20:42 its like its not working Jul 24 14:20:45 ahhhhh Jul 24 14:20:46 Guest68889: i didnt something like that to my phone too Jul 24 14:20:48 no evdo Jul 24 14:20:55 i had to turn on airplane mode Jul 24 14:20:58 righty Jul 24 14:21:00 and reboot Jul 24 14:21:01 do that Jul 24 14:21:05 then turn airplane mode off Jul 24 14:21:06 i cant even do that Jul 24 14:21:08 and it was working agian Jul 24 14:21:13 ok Jul 24 14:21:21 you may have a failed doctor. Jul 24 14:21:27 which version of doctor did you install. Jul 24 14:21:35 peptec error Jul 24 14:21:40 yeah, i thought so to, but i re did it twice Jul 24 14:21:45 huh Jul 24 14:21:47 s/e/a/ Jul 24 14:21:47 PuffTheMagic meant: paptec error Jul 24 14:22:01 you may be reduced to the "visit the sprint store" method. Jul 24 14:22:01 a fresh download from the palm site Jul 24 14:22:03 grrr Jul 24 14:22:05 wrong e Jul 24 14:22:06 lol Jul 24 14:22:18 yeahh, i was hoping to not have to do taht.... Jul 24 14:22:28 Guest68889: what do u mean you cant switch airplane mode Jul 24 14:22:43 the point i am at in the restore Jul 24 14:22:48 Guest68889, you can not press the battery icon to get a menu to choose airplane mode? Jul 24 14:22:54 no Jul 24 14:22:57 it does nothing Jul 24 14:23:02 so what is on your screen? Jul 24 14:23:17 does launcher do nothing? Jul 24 14:23:25 i have no launcher Jul 24 14:23:29 i cant even get that far Jul 24 14:23:32 do you have a photo of coral? Jul 24 14:23:39 what do you have? Jul 24 14:23:46 after the restore, you go and set your language Jul 24 14:23:50 nodnod Jul 24 14:23:53 en Jul 24 14:23:57 i did that and it says activation ok Jul 24 14:24:01 ok Jul 24 14:24:13 then it goes to the palm profile asking you to login or create an account Jul 24 14:24:17 and i cant get past that Jul 24 14:24:23 which you absolutely have to have done Jul 24 14:24:33 when you got the pre, you HAD to create a palm profile. Jul 24 14:24:37 yes Jul 24 14:24:41 he tries to connect to it, but it says no service Jul 24 14:24:44 yes Jul 24 14:24:45 and it isn't talking it Jul 24 14:24:48 but i have service Jul 24 14:24:51 just no evdo Jul 24 14:24:54 for some reason Jul 24 14:24:59 you're screwed. Jul 24 14:25:04 awwwwww Jul 24 14:25:14 you've rebooted multiple times already? pulled battery? Jul 24 14:25:18 ohh yeahhhhhh Jul 24 14:25:25 i spent 4 hours on this last night Jul 24 14:25:29 if you've tried it 3 times.... and re-doctored multiple times, and it does this every time, you're done. Jul 24 14:25:47 thats that i was afraid of Jul 24 14:25:56 I have no idea what went wrong. Jul 24 14:25:59 i think i know Jul 24 14:26:06 did you not accept the TOS Jul 24 14:26:08 me either Jul 24 14:26:08 what what what? Jul 24 14:26:17 i did Jul 24 14:26:17 i heard if you dont accept that it will get locked Jul 24 14:26:20 aha!!!! Jul 24 14:27:03 Here im gonna doctor it one more time Jul 24 14:27:10 and list the process that i take Jul 24 14:27:21 and i did accept the TOS Jul 24 14:28:04 im wondering if i need to reactivate the phone with sprint or something Jul 24 14:28:24 Champ, http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Bypassing_Activation Jul 24 14:29:03 ehhh Jul 24 14:29:29 personally i would rather it just work like it supposed to know you... Jul 24 14:29:40 yeah Jul 24 14:29:43 but worst case, I will do that if i have to Jul 24 14:29:54 im not the best at linux Jul 24 14:30:25 but thank you Jul 24 14:30:48 sprint store champ Jul 24 14:30:55 yeahhh Jul 24 14:31:17 don't tell them about the linux part Jul 24 14:31:23 i know Jul 24 14:31:28 im gonna play dumb Jul 24 14:31:32 nodnod Jul 24 14:31:37 phone reset during update Jul 24 14:31:39 and hosed it Jul 24 14:31:40 nodnod Jul 24 14:31:44 nodnod Jul 24 14:32:08 boy did i learn a lesson out of this.... Jul 24 14:32:37 interestingly there is a "Bypassing modem errors" section in that wiki as well Jul 24 14:32:50 maybe it's happened to a few others Jul 24 14:33:35 its like the physical chip isnt working Jul 24 14:33:38 its weird Jul 24 14:34:03 think calling CS and asking for a reactivation might help? Jul 24 14:34:16 suppose it couldn't hurt Jul 24 14:34:34 I don't like the pre hardware too much Jul 24 14:34:40 but I love webos Jul 24 14:34:51 I can't wait for more webos running hardware Jul 24 14:34:52 heh Jul 24 14:35:07 well, the local store opens up in 30 min. ill just have them do it Jul 24 14:37:33 anyone have experience with quilt, getting the "package needs to be refreshed" error? Jul 24 14:38:35 Anyone interested in playing with a podcatcher/player application? http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/trees/master/com.palm.drnull.prepod Jul 24 14:39:20 this app can't be done in just mojo ? Jul 24 14:41:14 raeb, yeah, it is. I just wanted a place to share it. the applications folder seemed like a good place to do that. Jul 24 14:41:59 well, web-internals is generally for anything above linux kernel and below mojo (unless said linux app requires a mojo piece) but what do i know Jul 24 14:42:06 I'll throw it up on precentral eventually (hopefully later today) Jul 24 14:42:06 s/web/webos Jul 24 14:42:21 drnull Jul 24 14:42:32 we have a place on webos-internals wiki for you to post apps Jul 24 14:42:37 gotcha, I read the applications project as "Simple example(s) for getting started with webOS / Mojo application development" meaning applications as well Jul 24 14:42:47 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:webOS_Applications Jul 24 14:43:03 no, we have a portal for APPS. Jul 24 14:43:11 so if u need any native bits required, let me know Jul 24 14:43:18 and we have a feed for an alternate on machine install stream Jul 24 14:43:33 we will have a submissions page for that feed tonight or tommorow Jul 24 14:43:51 visit http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:webOS_Applications and look around Jul 24 14:43:58 drnull, Jul 24 14:44:09 Rick__: can I continue using girorious as the source repo? Jul 24 14:45:00 yes Jul 24 14:46:11 * Rick__ OFF TO WORK Jul 24 14:46:20 gaaaa 45 minutrs late NOW Jul 24 15:09:26 palm/iTunes sync has pushed up to top sci/tech article on google news Jul 24 15:09:45 DrNull : thank you very much... I'll try out the podcast Jul 24 15:12:53 Hi everyone, ive completed a complete noob page Jul 24 15:14:21 ura noob Jul 24 15:15:05 Pretty much. I had everything down b4 the SDK came out, now im relearning Jul 24 15:16:11 So, does anyone want to review it Jul 24 15:16:37 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/NOOB_Friendly_Getting_Started Jul 24 15:20:29 Who should i talk to to approve the change Jul 24 15:29:08 Please review this for a getting started page replace http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/NOOB_Friendly_Getting_Started Jul 24 15:40:40 Good morning, everyone! Jul 24 15:41:17 imop45: specifically which existing wiki page is that intended to replace? Jul 24 15:41:32 The getting started page Jul 24 15:41:38 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:_Where_to_Get_Started Jul 24 15:42:00 drnull: do you want to move that app to it's own repo under gitorious.org/webos-applications? Jul 24 15:42:53 rwhitby: sure, that would probably be a good idea (why on earth aren't you sleeping?) Jul 24 15:43:16 drnull: I was on a skype call with PreCentral, discussing homebrew app portals Jul 24 15:43:18 I'll do that sometime this afternoon. Jul 24 15:43:37 drnull: just 'prepod' for the repo name? Jul 24 15:43:38 rwhitby: Gotcha, well, another fine podcast interview coming up featuring you, I'm sure. :) Jul 24 15:43:41 sure Jul 24 15:44:49 drnull: description for the repo? Jul 24 15:45:12 Podcatcher/Podcast player (I'm not a real creative person...) Jul 24 15:45:30 drnull: no, this was a convincing them to use standard ipkg feed format call, not an interview. Jul 24 15:45:40 rwhitby: hmm, I wonder if we should create a new repo for the terminal now that it's bigger.. Jul 24 15:46:00 drnull: Podcatcher/Podcast player is ready Jul 24 15:46:14 thanks... and is there a nice one-liner to let me move it over there? :) Jul 24 15:46:35 destinal: I was thinking webos-applications is for stuff that doesn't need internals support Jul 24 15:46:55 destinal: but a new repo under webos-internals would be fine Jul 24 15:50:31 Did you review it? Seem good? Its like a prelink to sort out if someone wants to hack or just install some apps Jul 24 15:52:54 * drnull is off to lunch, he'll get PrePod moved over this afternoon. Jul 24 15:54:23 imop45: where does http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:_Where_to_Get_Started link from? Jul 24 15:54:42 I would like it to link from the main page Jul 24 15:55:07 The "getting started" to link to it Jul 24 15:55:16 imop45: that's what I was asking, which existing page does it replace? Jul 24 15:55:59 No existing page. It just replaces a link. Jul 24 15:56:22 Its a portal page. Jul 24 15:56:23 clear Jul 24 15:56:28 meh, wrong window Jul 24 15:56:39 imop45: the installing a homebrew ipkg has to be cross-platform. that tutorial you link to that uses PreBrew is windows only Jul 24 15:57:30 (that's why we point to the SDK, and also so that people side-loading apps fall under the "testing environment" clause of the EULA so the original app author doesn't get in trouble) Jul 24 15:57:46 Is there a turtorial on the site that is cross-platform? Jul 24 15:57:56 imop45: yes, use palm-install from the SDK Jul 24 15:58:12 imop45: two lines on http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux Jul 24 15:58:25 which point to documentation on Palm's official site Jul 24 15:58:30 Then why is the prebrew method listed on the site Jul 24 15:58:47 imop45: cause someone wrote a tool and contributed a wiki page to match Jul 24 15:59:21 Hmm, ok, so i'll make a link page to this tool for windows, and the sdk for corss-platform Jul 24 15:59:44 ok, it should be over there now. Thanks, rwhitby Jul 24 16:00:15 The point of my portal page is just to help out those who might just want to install a few apps. Or those who get confused Jul 24 16:00:39 With the SDK it is still difficult Jul 24 16:03:33 The SDK is a one-click install on all platforms, isn't it? Jul 24 16:03:42 it was on linux Jul 24 16:03:48 rwhitby, not on linux other than Debian Jul 24 16:03:56 not one click on Fedora from what I have seen Jul 24 16:04:15 yeah i guess i should qualify that as ubuntu Jul 24 16:04:20 jcrawford: right, on all supported platforms Jul 24 16:04:44 there are too many linux variants for anyone not using ubuntu to expect easy installation of anything ;-) Jul 24 16:05:00 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:_Where_to_Get_Started These, added information for windows OS Jul 24 16:05:06 there* Jul 24 16:05:34 well, deb and rpm are the most popular, so, making both of those easy would be nice Jul 24 16:06:00 imop45: the point is we want people to use the SDK, since then there is just *one* process, and it's documented and officially supported by Palm, so it will never go away Jul 24 16:06:18 yea would love to have a one click install for fedora it uses rpm along with many other variants Jul 24 16:06:30 gkatsev: would be nice, but a company that only has enough cash to support one will choose Ubuntu every time. Jul 24 16:06:40 yeah, i guess Jul 24 16:06:49 (or maybe RHEL if they are targetting the enterprise) Jul 24 16:06:55 No, the SDK for windows users is more complicated, especial if a non-tech savvy person just wants to install a few apps Jul 24 16:07:08 well, RHEL is rpm, so... Jul 24 16:07:28 Novaterm has to be modded for windows vista Jul 24 16:07:45 sdk in windows 7 32 bit was ez, just had to install a different novacom service Jul 24 16:08:23 i couldnt get sdk installed on my win7 install. it almost finished installing but then kept rolling back changed and deinstalling itself Jul 24 16:08:36 i saw that behavior on x64 win7 Jul 24 16:08:44 I tried, didnt work. Rick ran into the same problem. I have to go back and do all the old instructions for it to work Jul 24 16:09:18 the point is, is that womeone who is not that computer literate probably couldnt do it. And probably wouldnt want to Jul 24 16:09:24 imop45: we want to farm out support for side-loading applications back to palm. they have forums there were people can get help to use the SDK on the supported platforms. Jul 24 16:09:31 thankfully, i have ubuntu, and that was really easy Jul 24 16:09:39 we'd rather spend time creating stuff rather than supporting non-official app installation methods. Jul 24 16:10:10 if someone is not computer literate they won't be developing apps, simple as that Jul 24 16:10:26 if they cannot figure out how to install the SDK by following instructions they are not going to have a clue about developing an app Jul 24 16:10:33 Its not about dev apps. Its about people who ONLY want to install them Jul 24 16:10:47 Not talking about developing apps Jul 24 16:10:57 what we need to do then is create an app kinda like the app catalog for homebrew apps Jul 24 16:11:20 get that app into the app catalog when it goes public and then anyone can install that and then install any homebrew app they want Jul 24 16:11:23 imop45: that's PreCentral's job, it's not the job of webos-internals. Jul 24 16:11:37 but.. that would be pointless once the app catalog goes public as I am sure everyone will use that Jul 24 16:11:51 but having an app that could download and install the ipk's would be cool Jul 24 16:11:55 preware Jul 24 16:12:09 jcrawford: there are at least 5 different people both inside and outside of webos-internals working on exactly that. Jul 24 16:12:15 (5 different solutions) Jul 24 16:12:25 Where n how to install an app then? That link goes to Prebrew also Jul 24 16:12:51 i like scp and ssh for installing apps :D Jul 24 16:13:06 rwhitby, wouldn't it make more sense for you all to team together for the solution rather than make 5 different solutions? Jul 24 16:13:13 I suggest palm-install, and use the doco on Palm's site. Jul 24 16:13:33 jcrawford: at least 4 of the 5 are not open source. people are wanting to make money or fame. Jul 24 16:13:40 pfft Jul 24 16:13:43 they will bomb Jul 24 16:13:49 more power to em if they do make money or get fame Jul 24 16:13:56 personally, im an OSS fan Jul 24 16:13:58 But the webos-internals site is to hep people out. Jul 24 16:14:01 i say that because the point of this app will be useless once the app catalog goes public Jul 24 16:14:17 what I've been doing in making sure that all those 5 solutions use a standard ipkg feed as the interchange format Jul 24 16:14:22 then it doesn't matter which app wins Jul 24 16:14:34 everyone will go there and sell their apps and since every palm user would use the app catalog that is pre-installed they would be less likely to buy an app catalog Jul 24 16:14:48 rwhitby, good idea :) Jul 24 16:15:03 jcrawford: most of the people doing it as doing it cause the app catalog is not there yet. Jul 24 16:15:17 rwhitby, right but it is on the way rather soon isn't it? Jul 24 16:15:39 preware.org is the "demonstration site" of how to do packaging and feeds the right way Jul 24 16:15:42 even if it is only 2 months out they are not going to make *that* much money they would be better off making something that we can use faster by teaming up Jul 24 16:15:48 Ok, theres no link at all to hep someone know how to download a homebrew app Jul 24 16:15:57 any of the 5 GUI installer apps will be able to use preware.org as one of their feeds Jul 24 16:15:59 IT WORKS! Jul 24 16:16:28 You wouldnt need an app catalog on the pre as badly if it was easy to install from the comp Jul 24 16:17:47 "Our goal is to provide the simplest, most consumer friendly method to install homebrew apps on a stock Pre." Jul 24 16:18:31 imop45: the person who wrote that page doesn't come to this channel, so has never discussed any of it with us here. Jul 24 16:19:42 Ok, then we need a page thats easier to understand or at least the link on how to install an ipk to direct to something useful and remove the PreBrew method off the site Jul 24 16:20:21 imop45: I'm not about to remove any method that someone contributes off the site. Jul 24 16:20:37 this is not a dictatorship Jul 24 16:20:37 imop45, sure you would. Once the app catalog goes public you are going to see fewer and fewer free applications Jul 24 16:20:49 do you use novaterm on windows? Jul 24 16:20:49 and the secondary app installers would just allow for piracy Jul 24 16:20:58 or is that just linux Jul 24 16:21:16 jwm: you use novaterm or novacom tty on all three of mac, linux, windows. Jul 24 16:21:23 But the one and only link that tels someone how to install an app goes to an unsupport unrecommended way Jul 24 16:21:33 jwm: it's all documented on Palm's site Jul 24 16:21:39 I cant find novaterm on windows! grr Jul 24 16:22:11 imop45: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux, Procedure, step 3. points to Palm doco. Jul 24 16:22:15 rwhitby: are you telling me to rtfm? Jul 24 16:22:15 heh Jul 24 16:22:25 imop45: same page, step 4. Jul 24 16:22:27 I just needed a quick intel on it that is all Jul 24 16:22:35 I could of looked it up on the web or just asked here Jul 24 16:22:39 jcrawford-yeah, so true. Palm os had freeware everywhere Jul 24 16:22:44 jwm: same page, step 4. Jul 24 16:22:55 heh Jul 24 16:23:30 I've even used novaterm before Jul 24 16:23:33 to access my pre Jul 24 16:23:39 Novaterm doesnt work. Its not included in the SDK. Me and Rick discussed this yesterday Jul 24 16:23:44 if palm's professionally written SDK documentation is not good enough for people to use to install apps, then ... Jul 24 16:23:54 imop45: have you read step 4? Jul 24 16:24:10 Yeah. Novaterm isn't on my system Jul 24 16:24:17 oo Jul 24 16:24:27 Sorry, it has been revised. Go rick Jul 24 16:24:34 imop45 Jul 24 16:24:46 imop45 we fixed that problem Jul 24 16:25:04 imop45 if you have installed the sdk Jul 24 16:25:10 go to sdk/bin Jul 24 16:25:15 Yes i saw. I went through the change pages log and didnt see it Jul 24 16:25:22 type novacom -t open tty:// Jul 24 16:25:28 and bingo root@castle. Jul 24 16:25:41 ahh, see Jul 24 16:25:53 all I needed to know was novacom -t open tty:// Jul 24 16:25:58 * rwhitby bbt. 2am Jul 24 16:25:59 Not many windows users here, eh? Jul 24 16:26:02 that was less to type than the above Jul 24 16:26:16 well, I run the emu on linux but since virtualbox and kvm hate each other Jul 24 16:26:27 jwm: ah, but then you'd keep asking questions that are answered on the wiki :-) Jul 24 16:26:32 I am just running the emu on a windows laptop now Jul 24 16:26:43 no, I just asked that one question Jul 24 16:26:45 WEll, those instructions were up for weeks b4 anybody caught that they didnt work ltm Jul 24 16:26:51 that is all I had planned to ask heh Jul 24 16:26:56 well, not planned, improv Jul 24 16:27:33 I just updated the accessing linux page Jul 24 16:27:49 and I marked all the "old" pages as depricated at the top with pointers to "accessing linux" Jul 24 16:27:55 I don't ask a lot of questions hhe Jul 24 16:27:57 and we have "long versions" for mac and windows. Jul 24 16:28:05 it should be all good now. Jul 24 16:28:21 imop45 was yours the suggestion for the starter page and the new sidebar? Jul 24 16:29:07 Yeah, this-b Jul 24 16:29:09 v Jul 24 16:29:13 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:_Where_to_Get_Started sory Jul 24 16:29:38 But need to revise i guess b/c prebrew isn't a recommended way Jul 24 16:30:18 right Jul 24 16:30:23 it's not Jul 24 16:30:27 we're using the sdk for now. Jul 24 16:30:38 We will have "something better" tonight or tommorow. Jul 24 16:30:45 grrrr our IT security guy says that they may block pre on EAS cuz it doesn't support 6 digit pins Jul 24 16:31:11 how many does it support? Jul 24 16:31:18 4 Jul 24 16:31:35 Haha, wow. 1,1 and soooo many improv and then. Nope, 6 digits. Jul 24 16:31:57 are you sure it doesn't? Jul 24 16:32:04 or does the interface just not? Jul 24 16:32:10 there may be a way to change that cap Jul 24 16:32:14 Hmm, my chatzilla just randomnly WHOIS'ed Rick Jul 24 16:32:19 sure i could modify the app Jul 24 16:32:36 sargun: you attend ISU? Jul 24 16:32:39 but i can't modify all pre in the company Jul 24 16:32:41 So Rick, what should i do about my page? Jul 24 16:32:45 Quantsini, No. Jul 24 16:32:47 the optware script doesn't work? Jul 24 16:33:26 sargun: ah, just curious, as your debian tutorial included an iowa state link Jul 24 16:34:01 so i got ofx working with jp morgan chase Jul 24 16:34:10 but it hates me with american express :( Jul 24 16:34:45 raeb: you can create a patch, and require "software updates" Jul 24 16:35:15 1.1 ruined the alert sound :( Jul 24 16:35:19 i can barely here it now Jul 24 16:35:30 hear Jul 24 16:36:12 or, i could modify the mechanism in which pre reports its capabilities Jul 24 16:36:20 and lie to exchange say that it supports 6 digit pins Jul 24 16:36:30 does the optware script try to mount hdb Jul 24 16:36:32 ? Jul 24 16:37:24 restarted comp tty Jul 24 16:37:24 anyone know of a tool where i can specify post data and have it post to a server and show me what comes back? Jul 24 16:37:40 i feel like its an obvious tool but cant find anything Jul 24 16:37:50 webscarab Jul 24 16:37:53 burp Jul 24 16:39:52 blau-mikeDG: just make a test.html with a JS function postIt("url", {param1:"value",param2:"value"}); and use firebug's console. Jul 24 16:40:09 I use to have a file like that... useful. Jul 24 16:40:12 ya firebug is good Jul 24 16:41:29 * Templarian is in the contributors section of the about screen so hes entitled to plug it Jul 24 16:41:40 temp: i thought js could only post url encoded stuff? Jul 24 16:41:56 im not a web dev guy Jul 24 16:42:14 nah, ajaxclient can do POST as well as GET Jul 24 16:42:16 It can, the function would url encode the obj in a for loop. Jul 24 16:42:24 or javascript can take your stuff, and spit out a html form and submit it Jul 24 16:42:25 etc Jul 24 16:42:44 so you turn on wifi in the emulator to get an ip to ssh to? Jul 24 16:43:09 no Jul 24 16:43:14 you ssh to localhost at port 5522 i think Jul 24 16:43:59 like how do i do postdata where its just data, no named parameters Jul 24 16:44:06 im a nub Jul 24 16:44:18 sweet, you're run Jul 24 16:44:20 right Jul 24 16:44:20 hah Jul 24 16:44:27 like when you upload a file? Jul 24 16:44:33 do you want a php script to tell you what your POST data is? Jul 24 16:44:36 oh ok yeah i guess so Jul 24 16:44:40 bzhou * r10488 optware/trunk/make/nmap.mk: nmap: stage and depend on libpcap Jul 24 16:44:56 i want to post some arbitrary data to a server i dont own and see what it sends back Jul 24 16:45:10 ohh Jul 24 16:45:17 hehe Jul 24 16:45:34 you could do a man in the middle attack Jul 24 16:45:37 i kinda have it working, but it seems to be failing for a different server :/ Jul 24 16:45:54 i'd burp it and watch the traffic go by Jul 24 16:45:58 blau-mikeDG: what browser are you using? Jul 24 16:46:10 I don't get it it sounds like you need that server to contain some script to output the data you're sending Jul 24 16:46:34 Note, on the wiki the novacom -t open tty:// the slashes do not BOLD Jul 24 16:46:37 temp: whatever browser will help Jul 24 16:46:43 I found out Jul 24 16:46:50 with the emulator you connect to localhost port 5522 Jul 24 16:46:55 that worked great Jul 24 16:47:10 blau-mikeDG: (just making sure, because FF 3.5 upgraded to requiring cross domain policy headers). Jul 24 16:47:11 the server has that script Jul 24 16:47:40 if worse comes to worse i guess i can just put a quick tool together for myself Jul 24 16:48:36 I don't quite understand what you want to do :( Jul 24 16:48:46 anyone else notice after the update you can make a change to a stock application and it does not require a refresh of luna or restart? a made a few changes and they were immediately available. no restarts Jul 24 16:49:15 i just want to treat the https connection as though its any plain old tcp server Jul 24 16:49:22 send data to it and get stuff back Jul 24 16:49:45 Yes and in the update ORANGE button and scroll scrolls sooo much better Jul 24 16:50:21 blau-mikeDG: one sec i'll go write up a really simple test case. Jul 24 16:50:28 Hey got a problem. I put in a wrong username in vreating a username in the CMD, and im on the new password page. Anyway to undo it? Jul 24 16:52:08 delete him from your /etc/passwd file Jul 24 16:52:14 and delete his folder from the /home directory Jul 24 16:52:46 i hit CTRL + C and restarted it Jul 24 16:53:43 as soon as you add user Jul 24 16:53:45 he is added Jul 24 16:53:49 even if you ctrl-c at the password prompt Jul 24 16:54:58 Hmm. oh well Jul 24 16:55:02 I have a Mojo question! Jul 24 16:55:16 Id he has no password he cant do anything right? Jul 24 16:55:19 PreMan: #webos (hehe) Jul 24 16:58:04 uhh Jul 24 16:58:07 i'd think so Jul 24 16:58:20 but not sure Jul 24 16:59:46 Wow... this CMD script is amazing. Jul 24 17:04:36 thank JackieRipper it's mostly his work Jul 24 17:09:23 L( Jul 24 17:11:22 Revised to show PreBrew isnt recommended: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:_Where_to_Get_Started Jul 24 17:12:20 Which is better, quilt or optware? Jul 24 17:14:32 NVM last post Jul 24 17:15:28 Is it really neccessary to remove a patch b4 downloading an OTA update Jul 24 17:16:38 imop45 you have to have optware in order to install quilt. Jul 24 17:16:45 Optware is the source of all goodness Jul 24 17:16:58 Optware is the center of our zen. Jul 24 17:17:07 and no, it isn't Jul 24 17:18:00 Yeah ive used it in Linux b4. Its Ah-mazing. Ok, the wiki says you need to "be removed before each OTA update" Jul 24 17:23:46 Rick_: regarding the terminfo of the terminal file, if you export TERM=vt100 life becomes happy at this point Jul 24 17:23:55 the default TERM=linux is all wrong Jul 24 17:24:22 s/terminal file/terminal app/ Jul 24 17:25:42 el fin i believe untill an easier method is created http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:_Where_to_Get_Started Jul 24 17:28:27 Do we have to do all of the setup steps, like making the quilt directory, etc if we ran the quilt patch? Jul 24 17:28:30 No right? Jul 24 17:31:10 you can actually run full screen apps, and escape should be "orange, space" -- unfortunately one of the issues with the current version of terminal is as it scrolls it adds rows, eventually becoming a hundreds-or-thousands-of-lines terminal, which can't be a good thing :P Jul 24 17:31:18 Update on "Applying Patches" delete this "need to be removed before each OTA update" b/c it doesn't apply? Jul 24 17:31:42 Is that right? "need to be removed before each OTA update" doesn't apply to patches? Jul 24 17:32:07 imop45: You can just remove the word hacking from your article. Jul 24 17:32:34 lunch bbl Jul 24 17:33:05 I know, but those that don't know what "acessing linux" means will be useful, at the beginning at least. I'll remove all others except the first Jul 24 17:34:16 imop45: also that is correct what it says in Apply Patches. Jul 24 17:34:40 s/apply patches/applying patches/ Jul 24 17:35:17 Oh, so you do have to reomve all of your patches b4 an OTA update? Jul 24 17:35:17 * Templarian thinks so the bot is case sensitive, meh. Jul 24 17:35:55 imop45: Yea, probably due to the way that Palm Patches itself. They expect the code to be exactly how they left it. Jul 24 17:36:30 Palm doesn't appear to patch anything Jul 24 17:36:36 Palm appears to OVERWRITE eveyrthing Jul 24 17:36:40 overwrite Jul 24 17:36:54 Yea, thats what I thought... meh, so what's the reasoning? Jul 24 17:36:58 my fear is "partially left patches." Jul 24 17:37:05 imop45: the text in 1. Easiest is unclear. There is reference to Current method that seems to be assumed you know about it. Would it be better to simply state 'under development for Windows OS only. Mac and Linux OS use option 2.' Jul 24 17:37:09 the patch that involved 2 files, and only one got overwritten Jul 24 17:37:17 Ah ok, a few others said you didnt have to. Also, After installing the optware/quilt patch, do you have to follow the setup steps in Applying Patches? Jul 24 17:38:32 destinal -- did you change the terminal wiki page or do I need to???? Jul 24 17:38:33 So Rick, should that line be removed in Applying Patches that states you have to remove them all be an update? Jul 24 17:39:15 Hmm, partially left patches. ok, ill leave it :) Jul 24 17:43:38 thers'e no '|' on the pre, that also has to be dealt with in term Jul 24 17:44:20 Zuchmir2 Jul 24 17:44:43 Zuchmir2 destinal said that I needed to export TERM=vt100 to get the terminal to work better. Jul 24 17:44:46 uh. Jul 24 17:44:49 from the terminal? Jul 24 17:45:39 yeah, how to get '|'? Jul 24 17:46:33 orange - period ? Jul 24 17:46:53 export TERM=VT100 doesn't appear to do anything Jul 24 17:49:10 right Jul 24 17:49:18 uh Jul 24 17:49:23 orange is control Jul 24 17:49:28 orange + space is esc Jul 24 17:49:47 export TERM=vt100 with vt100 lower case is better. Jul 24 17:49:58 but nano still doesn't run right. No menu Jul 24 17:50:01 oh well. Jul 24 17:50:17 and my path isn't set. Jul 24 17:52:03 its an early releasde Jul 24 17:52:07 just be patient Jul 24 17:52:21 trying to understand en)x Jul 24 17:52:23 Ok, so PreBrew isn't recommended right? SHould we add that to the prebrew site? Jul 24 17:52:25 not complaining Jul 24 17:52:41 imop45 Nothing WRONG with prebrew. Jul 24 17:52:43 its fine. Jul 24 17:52:56 it's just that TODAY we're still using the sdk install. Jul 24 17:53:03 If people want to use prebrew that's fine. Jul 24 17:53:20 Oh.. rwhitby said its not recommended and to edit my page to exclude it Jul 24 17:53:29 but _OUR_ next step is to have an installer ON THE PRE that picks up packages from the web-os-internals package feed. Jul 24 17:53:34 Just like terminal does. Jul 24 17:53:50 so, we would prefer that you edit your page to use the sdk install for NOW. Jul 24 17:54:01 Ah ok, i see. Jul 24 17:54:05 recognizing that this is a VERY FLUID ENVIRONMENT Jul 24 17:54:07 hhe the comic app is nice Jul 24 17:54:13 it is yes. Jul 24 17:54:40 after my request they added john and john :) aka sick comic Jul 24 17:54:41 ;] Jul 24 17:54:56 did they add schlockmercenary? Jul 24 17:55:32 nah Jul 24 17:55:35 too bad Jul 24 17:55:47 i;m waiting for explosm.net to be added Jul 24 17:59:27 i hate you american express Jul 24 17:59:43 Yeah, american express sucks Jul 24 18:00:05 i cant figure out why thir server keeps giving me a 400 error Jul 24 18:00:08 never had one Jul 24 18:00:20 visa ftw! Jul 24 18:11:20 American express and mastercard changed their bill due dates to a few days earlier also. Wonder how many millions they made on that! Jul 24 18:13:33 You dont have to follow hardly any setup instruction for the Applying patches if you did the quilt manager Jul 24 18:14:39 imop45: my chase card extended due days by 5 days Jul 24 18:14:40 :) Jul 24 18:14:57 hey i have chase! didnt notice! Jul 24 18:15:10 chase ftw! Jul 24 18:15:15 7.99% fixed Jul 24 18:15:16 ;] Jul 24 18:16:47 en0x they DID add schlock Jul 24 18:16:49 :-) Jul 24 18:16:51 Happy feet dance Jul 24 18:17:27 ;D Jul 24 18:18:33 never read schlock Jul 24 18:18:53 THE BEST sf cartoon EVER Jul 24 18:19:01 www.schlockmercenary.com Jul 24 18:19:22 written by the guy who used to be the head of the groupwise project at novell before he became a full time web cartoonist. Jul 24 18:19:37 Never EVER missed a day of posting 7 days a week since 2001 Jul 24 18:19:48 :) Jul 24 18:19:51 not my type of comic Jul 24 18:19:55 i like www.sickcomic.com Jul 24 18:19:56 :) Jul 24 18:20:02 tits++ Jul 24 18:20:59 waaaaaterrcoooooolier Jul 24 18:21:12 is there a network level access RDP client for linux, n e body know Jul 24 18:22:57 whats the hidden clock patch? Jul 24 18:24:24 And whats the purpose of not showing the true batt levels?? dont get it Jul 24 18:24:46 because the battery doesnt charge 100%? Jul 24 18:24:46 :> Jul 24 18:24:48 only up to 97% Jul 24 18:25:04 well then thats a crappi battery! Jul 24 18:25:52 Hmm.. so will the battery patch make my phone try to charge to 100% all the time, and the damage my battery? Jul 24 18:26:00 yes Jul 24 18:26:48 lol Jul 24 18:26:52 it will blow Jul 24 18:26:53 :p Jul 24 18:27:31 Seriously? ok, well i'm removing that patch. Jul 24 18:27:40 he was joking Jul 24 18:27:41 :} Jul 24 18:27:48 ok, great! phew! Jul 24 18:28:14 i dont even bother to apply patches after this update Jul 24 18:28:19 patches are so old school Jul 24 18:28:20 :p Jul 24 18:28:25 ltm, i got a battery next to me from an old dell dj mp3 player thats blown up like a ballon Jul 24 18:28:43 anyone got the amazer batt? Jul 24 18:28:46 1400mAh? Jul 24 18:28:51 ha, not for me! landscape for email without RocknRoll Jul 24 18:29:00 no, want to though Jul 24 18:29:09 raeb: rdesktop Jul 24 18:29:16 the other one 2800mAh is too big Jul 24 18:29:23 it adds 4mm thickness to ur pre Jul 24 18:30:05 You know, some phones are too thin theyre uncomfortable Jul 24 18:30:06 i dont think rdesktop supports rdpv5 Jul 24 18:30:09 tsclient does tho Jul 24 18:30:18 (ts client may just be a front end to rdesktop for all i know, though) Jul 24 18:30:39 ah Jul 24 18:30:44 tsclient = new on me Jul 24 18:31:31 destinal, are you still doing stuff with browser plugin development at this time? Jul 24 18:31:37 hmm, not that many patches yet Jul 24 18:31:49 anybody upgrade to 1.1.0 yet? Jul 24 18:31:57 everybody did! Jul 24 18:32:00 i just did and my phone is sitting forever on the palm logo screen Jul 24 18:32:09 which is not animated :/ Jul 24 18:32:10 yeah it takes a while Jul 24 18:32:11 for mine it took 5 minutes Jul 24 18:32:17 i'm way past 5 minutes Jul 24 18:32:32 more like 15 now Jul 24 18:32:49 so the BADD flashlight is a joke? Jul 24 18:33:06 yeah get outta here Jul 24 18:33:41 heeeyyyyyyy Jul 24 18:33:49 ok ok bye bye Jul 24 18:33:55 ok well if everybody else has upgraded and has optware stuff installed Jul 24 18:34:05 I have to assume there's nothing conflicting there Jul 24 18:34:10 yep Jul 24 18:34:18 i upgraded with optware installed Jul 24 18:34:23 i did not have any stockmods tho Jul 24 18:34:35 psykoz: yes Jul 24 18:34:48 the only thing I can try to do now is pull the battery Jul 24 18:35:01 destinal, 10 word or less summary on how plugin development is going? Jul 24 18:35:12 raeb: tsclient uses rdesktop as front end like you said. and rdesktop does support RDP5. Jul 24 18:35:24 hey thanks tilted Jul 24 18:35:28 good info Jul 24 18:35:31 psykoz: I've been involved in the basicplugin / sample plugin development and then libterminal which is the core of the new native graphical terminal client (alpha version out now on preware) Jul 24 18:35:47 19 words too many Jul 24 18:36:01 raeb: lol Jul 24 18:36:31 well that did not work Jul 24 18:36:37 psykoz: we talk plugin to javascript and draw to native screenbuffer Jul 24 18:36:45 that's 10 Jul 24 18:36:52 raeb: had that backwards, but you know what i meant -- tsclient uses rdesktop as backend (i said frontend) Jul 24 18:37:25 its a love-hate relationship Jul 24 18:37:34 destinal, cool :) sound awesome Jul 24 18:37:43 curious, becuase I've been sorta distracted past few days, what's preware? Jul 24 18:37:58 Any of you guys notice severe battery drain after the 1.1 update? Jul 24 18:38:09 psykoz: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 24 18:38:22 xerran: no, exact opposite in fact, i'm still above half cap Jul 24 18:38:26 psykoz: it's got the installing preware steps Jul 24 18:38:32 whe before the update, at this time of the day, i'd be at 1/4th left Jul 24 18:38:37 psykoz: preware is palm pre applications Jul 24 18:38:50 preware is an ipkg package feed Jul 24 18:39:00 Xerran: my pre was running half a day with screen on and wifi Jul 24 18:39:07 on webos 1.1.0 Jul 24 18:39:09 destinal, thanks Jul 24 18:39:10 psykoz: the source code for all our work is on the webos-internals applications gitorious repository also Jul 24 18:39:36 maybe i will do the web Doctor Jul 24 18:40:21 web doc installs 1.0.3 rite? Jul 24 18:40:25 .4 Jul 24 18:40:28 or did they update the doc to 1.1.0 ? Jul 24 18:40:29 ah Jul 24 18:40:42 idk if they updated it yet Jul 24 18:40:43 not updated yet Jul 24 18:41:07 anyway i havent used the web doctor yet Jul 24 18:41:07 ;) Jul 24 18:41:25 en0x: get your factory test image first then Jul 24 18:41:30 picture Jul 24 18:41:38 oh i should Jul 24 18:41:46 always forgot about it Jul 24 18:41:46 ;} Jul 24 18:41:56 :( Jul 24 18:42:07 I doctored mine before realizing it was there Jul 24 18:42:17 alas Jul 24 18:42:20 dito Jul 24 18:42:24 on your advice tho Jul 24 18:42:26 :p Jul 24 18:42:37 i did that to mine too Jul 24 18:42:38 lol Jul 24 18:43:14 what's the factory test image? Jul 24 18:44:14 i wish there was a cute pre girl like the cute iphone girl Jul 24 18:44:19 tilted, http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Pictures_from_Self-Test Jul 24 18:44:35 hmm Jul 24 18:44:44 -sh: cd: can't cd to /var/log/hwtest Jul 24 18:44:50 :( no hwtest directory :( Jul 24 18:44:53 sucks that i need a serial number to download the Doctor Jul 24 18:44:54 lol Jul 24 18:45:02 Xerran: info app Jul 24 18:45:05 and there u have it Jul 24 18:45:09 en0x: I wonder if one of the updates nuked it then Jul 24 18:45:29 probably did Jul 24 18:45:29 haha yeah Jul 24 18:45:36 good point Jul 24 18:45:38 i need to write my serial down Jul 24 18:45:38 or palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre_p100eww/webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar Jul 24 18:45:48 (unless its a violtation to give that link?) Jul 24 18:46:14 lol Jul 24 18:46:15 raeb: no violation, its fine, but I tend to give out: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions Jul 24 18:46:16 Thu Jul 2 21:10:30 EDT 2009 Jul 24 18:46:20 /var has gone 3471 days without being checked, check forced. Jul 24 18:46:23 nice palm! Jul 24 18:46:53 rofl Jul 24 18:46:55 old palm Jul 24 18:47:04 en0x: so they've kept the pre secret, all these years, never fsck'ing it either Jul 24 18:47:06 epoch palm Jul 24 18:47:20 really impressive Jul 24 18:47:33 destinal: hbehehe thats what it says in logs :P Jul 24 18:47:48 actually epoch was 3492 days ago i think Jul 24 18:48:01 3471 days gives you 9 yrs? Jul 24 18:48:12 hmm Jul 24 18:48:20 unless my epoch is 2000 Jul 24 18:48:47 /var/log/reports/fsck/RDXD18_fsck_dirty.log Jul 24 18:49:23 $ echo "scale=3; `date +%s` / 60 / 60 / 24 / 365"|bc Jul 24 18:49:23 39.588 Jul 24 18:49:33 a lot more years since epoch Jul 24 18:49:42 1248461329 seconds Jul 24 18:49:56 destinal, wow, I am impressed with the terminal app so far, that's nice Jul 24 18:49:57 3471 days ago was jan 22, 2000 Jul 24 18:49:58 few months back it was 1234567890 seconds Jul 24 18:49:59 :) Jul 24 18:50:36 couple of weeks ago it as 12:34:56 7/8/9 Jul 24 18:50:42 :) Jul 24 18:51:21 psykoz: yeah, we have a few different people contributing to it, though it still has some bugs and needed features.. early alpha quality Jul 24 18:52:23 any official task lists or bug tracking for it yet? Jul 24 18:52:32 can i tweet about terminal app? Jul 24 18:52:33 :) Jul 24 18:52:35 psykoz: all needed if you know a good way to do it Jul 24 18:53:02 en0x: this is all public info, shout it from the rooftops. :) nobody said term is stable, but the more the merrier Jul 24 18:53:18 destinal: rwhitby said to not tell anyopne :( Jul 24 18:53:26 en0x: really, when? Jul 24 18:54:22 he put it on preware and the wiki this morning and talked about it in this channel , so I doubt it's meant to be a secret Jul 24 18:54:22 well I prefer things like JIRA for project/task/bug management but it's obvious enterprise grade stuff, but there's things like bugzilla I suppose which are opensource/free, not quite as good as fogbugz (but that costs money) Jul 24 18:54:22 information wants to be free Jul 24 18:54:45 and all the source code is in our public repository Jul 24 18:54:49 ya Jul 24 18:55:08 destinal: today Jul 24 18:55:30 who owns preware.org? Jul 24 18:55:56 psykoz: it's for this group, rod registered it Jul 24 18:56:00 rwhitby said that we're the real heroes Jul 24 18:56:06 :) Jul 24 18:56:14 has anyone tinkered with bumping up the accelerometer's polling interval yet? Jul 24 18:56:22 yup, he just facilitates. Jul 24 18:56:35 mmmmm Jul 24 18:56:43 he optware guy Jul 24 18:57:25 changing the value of /sys/class/input/input5/poll_interval doesn't seem to do a damn thing...at least at the mojo level Jul 24 18:58:13 en0x: it's on the wiki, I can't see any harm talking about it Jul 24 18:58:39 we released it publicly on purpose Jul 24 18:58:49 it's an alpha, but a release nonetheless Jul 24 18:59:16 i agree Jul 24 18:59:20 :P Jul 24 18:59:42 eno works tirelessly on Optware. He is the unsung hero keeping it working. Jul 24 18:59:51 ~eno Jul 24 18:59:52 i heard eno is like, the coolest Jul 24 19:00:00 lol Jul 24 19:00:05 lies Jul 24 19:00:06 infobot is a valley girl? Jul 24 19:00:11 :-/ Jul 24 19:00:13 ~no, eno works tirelessly on Optware. He is the unsung hero keeping it working. Jul 24 19:00:20 ~infobot Jul 24 19:00:21 infobot is, like, a hack!, or known to have only said one useful thing. a tool, or dating the fembots, or [TK]D-Fender's b*tch, or suck, or a pain in the ass Jul 24 19:00:24 ~eno Jul 24 19:00:25 extra, extra, read all about it, eno is like, the coolest Jul 24 19:00:33 * destinal needs to rtfm Jul 24 19:00:41 sigh Jul 24 19:00:52 lmao Jul 24 19:01:07 infobot: forget eno Jul 24 19:01:07 summatusmentis: i forgot eno Jul 24 19:01:26 infobot: learn eno as works tirelessly on Optware. He is the unsung hero keeping it working Jul 24 19:01:27 summatusmentis: I think you lost me on that one Jul 24 19:01:45 infobot: learn eno works tirelessly on Optware. He is the unsung hero keeping it working Jul 24 19:01:46 summatusmentis: I think you lost me on that one Jul 24 19:01:52 I quit, someone fix it Jul 24 19:02:06 destinal, is terminal running as root or another unprivileged user? Jul 24 19:02:12 psykoz: root Jul 24 19:02:21 everything runs as root Jul 24 19:03:36 ~terminal Jul 24 19:03:45 ~eno Jul 24 19:03:46 i guess eno is works tirelessly on Optware. He is the unsung hero keeping it working Jul 24 19:03:50 there Jul 24 19:03:51 heh Jul 24 19:03:52 lol Jul 24 19:03:59 except, not quite Jul 24 19:03:59 yay for eno Jul 24 19:04:09 ~terminal Jul 24 19:04:17 although Jul 24 19:04:20 by putting him in infobot Jul 24 19:04:20 you have to assign something to the trigger Jul 24 19:04:22 saying hello from not colored irssi Jul 24 19:04:27 you're kinda invalidating the 'unsung' part Jul 24 19:04:34 psykoz: awesome Jul 24 19:04:49 raeb: nah, cause nobody will ever ask Jul 24 19:04:52 :P Jul 24 19:04:54 okay couldn't take that anymore ;) Jul 24 19:04:58 hah Jul 24 19:05:07 psykoz: alpha, very alpha Jul 24 19:05:12 nod Jul 24 19:05:22 did you export TERM=vt100 ? Jul 24 19:05:31 infobot: terminal is very, very alpha, but can be found at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 24 19:05:32 okay, summatusmentis Jul 24 19:05:35 ~terminal Jul 24 19:05:36 it has been said that terminal is very, very alpha, but can be found at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 24 19:05:45 brb..runnign the Doctor Jul 24 19:05:46 destinal: good enough? Jul 24 19:05:51 summatusmentis: cool Jul 24 19:05:56 *running Jul 24 19:06:08 ~irc Jul 24 19:06:09 rumour has it, irc is a protocol, aka "Internet Relay Chat". It consisists of IRC servers, and clients. The clients send messages to the servers, which in turn relay the messages to other clients as it sees fit (via a private message, open channel,RAW commands to the server directly). Jul 24 19:06:20 ~freenode Jul 24 19:06:21 http://freenode.net/ Jul 24 19:06:23 bah thats just a rumor Jul 24 19:06:32 raeb: lol Jul 24 19:06:52 infobot: freenode is also the bomb. Jul 24 19:06:53 destinal: okay Jul 24 19:07:00 ~freenode Jul 24 19:07:01 http://freenode.net/, or the bomb. Jul 24 19:07:15 kaboom Jul 24 19:07:54 * summatusmentis isn't sure how much longer he can hold out without a webos device Jul 24 19:08:00 I want pixie to be announced Jul 24 19:08:09 at the very least Jul 24 19:08:10 testting vt100 now Jul 24 19:08:21 infobot: freenode is also where you are, man. Jul 24 19:08:22 okay, destinal Jul 24 19:08:22 seems okay :) Jul 24 19:08:41 is there a key for escape or alt meta Jul 24 19:08:44 ? Jul 24 19:08:53 escape is orange then space Jul 24 19:09:07 sym is control Jul 24 19:10:18 I have no alt / meta or other random modifier key Jul 24 19:10:31 with apologies to emacs Jul 24 19:10:32 have we figured out how to capture gestures yet? Jul 24 19:10:50 summasomthing: that should be ez Jul 24 19:10:57 well escape is fine since it works the same in irssi ;) Jul 24 19:11:01 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/194662-gdial-0-1-beta-google-voice-dialer.html seen it? :> Jul 24 19:11:09 WAT! Jul 24 19:11:12 gvoice dialier!!! Jul 24 19:11:19 raeb: well do it :) Jul 24 19:11:19 ~emacs Jul 24 19:11:19 *click* Jul 24 19:11:20 methinks emacs is as useless as vim if you don't wanna learn it Jul 24 19:11:49 with WebOS Doctor you use the just charge option right? Jul 24 19:11:55 infobot: emacs is also an excellent reason to grow a third hand. Jul 24 19:11:56 * infobot C-M--^[-nuke's is also an excellent reason to grow a third hand. Jul 24 19:12:07 en0x: im guessing this isn't mod to existing gvoice Jul 24 19:12:18 i was hoping to have buttons for like 'listenin' and 'send to voicemail' Jul 24 19:12:34 s/existing gvoice/existing dialer/ Jul 24 19:13:11 infobot: no botsnack, work on memory enhancement. Jul 24 19:13:12 destinal: aw, gee Jul 24 19:14:05 destinal: im Jul 24 19:14:27 Is there a public photo album somewhere that everyone could post their factory test image? Might be cool Jul 24 19:15:16 think there was a thread on precentral forums already for this Jul 24 19:15:51 good call, i'll look there Jul 24 19:16:38 says palm about apple breaking itunes sync: "palm believes that openness and interoperability offer better experiences for users......on behalf of conumsers, we have notified the USB Implementers Form of what we believe is improper use [by apple] of the Vendor ID" Jul 24 19:16:57 talk about pokin the bear Jul 24 19:17:13 apple will sue Jul 24 19:17:33 Apple won't sue Jul 24 19:17:34 bad PR Jul 24 19:17:41 aren't they already threatening to sue because of multitouch on the pre Jul 24 19:17:49 and could be a bad turn around for them in terms of interoperability/DMCA precedent Jul 24 19:18:05 multitouch been there since 80s Jul 24 19:18:19 raeb, Apple and Palm have a variety of patents covering issues both companies could unload on each other Jul 24 19:18:24 anyway how can u patent a fking gesture Jul 24 19:18:24 :S Jul 24 19:18:26 raeb, it seems to be mutual self destruction in that war Jul 24 19:18:31 indeed Jul 24 19:18:37 usa patenting law suck Jul 24 19:18:42 en0x, you should see Gemstar's patent on rectangular display of tv guide data Jul 24 19:20:08 i dont get one thing with the mods of apps and stylesheet Jul 24 19:20:44 why they are saying that you need to add some css code at this and this line? the whole css is loading at once so you can add your css code at the bottom Jul 24 19:20:54 it doesnt matter where u add it \ Jul 24 19:20:55 hmm Jul 24 19:21:01 unless you're overriding a rule Jul 24 19:21:05 but putting it at the bottom is safe Jul 24 19:21:44 Palm needs to fix their steps Jul 24 19:21:57 overriging is a different thing adding custom css rules is different Jul 24 19:22:20 Does the WebOS Doctor tell you when to plug in via USB? Jul 24 19:22:50 Xerran: don't think so Jul 24 19:23:20 so just plug it in and hit next? or do i have to hit charge only also? Jul 24 19:23:50 plug it in, set to charge, then press next Jul 24 19:23:56 thx Jul 24 19:24:14 en0x, Gemstar basically has the tvguide format patented through several hundred pages of patents, literally you can not publish television guide data, or display it on a screen (ie: tivo/sage tv/beyond btv/microsoft media center) unless you pay a royalty to Gemstar Jul 24 19:24:26 en0x, effectively they've patented the spreadsheet display of television guide information Jul 24 19:24:57 lol Jul 24 19:25:03 this can only happen in USA! Jul 24 19:25:08 en0x, nod Jul 24 19:27:00 that can only last 15 years. It has to be almost expired. Jul 24 19:28:22 Anyone know where I can get an unlocked Pre? Jul 24 19:28:30 u cant ;( Jul 24 19:28:32 Really? Jul 24 19:28:37 Was the question a joke Jul 24 19:28:41 that* Jul 24 19:29:05 You guys want to see something a little off topic but extremely cool? Jul 24 19:29:19 watercooler channel Jul 24 19:29:36 jhehe Jul 24 19:29:55 http://gizmodo.com/5322100/this-is-exactly-what-touchscreen-surfaces-were-invented-for Jul 24 19:30:50 Xerran: cool stuff Jul 24 19:31:10 hell ya, a new way to play RTS :P Jul 24 19:31:14 i thought that they will release flash with 1.1.0 :( Jul 24 19:31:24 Nah Jul 24 19:31:29 I heard Flash beta willbe in October Jul 24 19:31:29 They said end of the year Jul 24 19:31:45 yes but there is never enough suprises Jul 24 19:32:06 haha Jul 24 19:32:19 The release date was a surprise for me ;) Jul 24 19:32:26 hehe Jul 24 19:33:07 Flash = HULU happy times on Pre Jul 24 19:33:13 yep Jul 24 19:33:14 yap yap Jul 24 19:34:12 Also we will be able to go to YouTube via the browser instead of the workaround app Jul 24 19:34:28 Will it be a lite version of Flash? Jul 24 19:34:48 not sure Jul 24 19:34:54 From what we heard it is full flash 10 Jul 24 19:35:08 wowzers, are you serious? Jul 24 19:35:27 That's what I have read Jul 24 19:35:37 Thats awesome if its the FULL version Jul 24 19:36:04 That would really kill the iPhone Jul 24 19:36:13 Actually, i dunno why i said wowzers. Flash exe is only 1.97MB Jul 24 19:36:14 lol Jul 24 19:37:38 Apple stuff dies from flash anyway ;) Jul 24 19:37:50 flash sucks Jul 24 19:38:02 html5 video ftw Jul 24 19:38:23 I prefer flash video to WMV or quicktime Jul 24 19:38:46 lol, wmv or quicktime are so 2000 ;) Jul 24 19:38:48 html5 is the open source video right? Jul 24 19:39:01 umm Jul 24 19:39:04 the one th ejust integrated into FF? Jul 24 19:39:06 it's in html 5 spec Jul 24 19:39:18 as are other things like sql database Jul 24 19:39:27 the one they just integrated in Firefox 3.5 Jul 24 19:40:39 actually video does not specify a codec nor container format Jul 24 19:40:43 unfortuately Jul 24 19:40:53 because apple did not like ogg therora Jul 24 19:40:58 bastards Jul 24 19:41:04 http://www.precentral.net/how-about-command-line-terminal-your-pre Jul 24 19:41:08 ! Jul 24 19:41:59 Xerran: I like ! Jul 24 19:42:00 nice Jul 24 19:43:10 just fixed the cursor in term Jul 24 19:43:11 yes apple/google ruined html5 video Jul 24 19:43:16 by embracing h.264 Jul 24 19:43:21 ... and uploaded Jul 24 19:43:23 so it's png vs gif all over again Jul 24 19:43:59 Zuchmir2: oh, the scrolling cursor detachment issue Jul 24 19:44:10 Real terminal on pre? Awesome Jul 24 19:44:38 It's been my week this week, Catalyst 9.7 and WebOS 1.1 all in the same day. Jul 24 19:45:00 catalyst form linux? Jul 24 19:45:02 for Jul 24 19:45:04 destinal: yeah! Jul 24 19:45:07 Linux too Jul 24 19:45:25 I have Catalyst 9.7 installed in Vista x64 and Ubuntu x64 Jul 24 19:45:36 I wonder if it fixes that issue with ge graphics card not working after detaching the power of my laptop Jul 24 19:45:47 hmm, the commit list for the applications repo isn't very accurate to say who worked on term. Jul 24 19:45:49 could not tell you that Jul 24 19:46:00 lost of stuff in the applications repo that has nothing to do with us Jul 24 19:46:08 s/lost/lots/ Jul 24 19:46:08 destinal meant: lots of stuff in the applications repo that has nothing to do with us Jul 24 19:46:51 their scary black screen screenshot is cute though. Jul 24 19:47:00 AMD sources say they will be shipping DirectX 11 GPU's within 7 weeks Jul 24 19:47:28 ewww ati Jul 24 19:47:30 fail Jul 24 19:47:39 hey hey hey Jul 24 19:47:40 lol Jul 24 19:47:58 Their hardware is so lousy Jul 24 19:48:04 and drivers are worse Jul 24 19:48:05 My wife picked it up for me to replace my old 8800GT's Jul 24 19:48:19 Drivers are no issue now Jul 24 19:48:53 they fixed the driver issues back in 2005 Jul 24 19:49:04 Nah Jul 24 19:49:09 I have ATI drivers on my laptop Jul 24 19:49:13 They are horrible Jul 24 19:49:30 I have two boxes here, one is nVidia based and th eother is AMD/ATi Jul 24 19:49:42 how old is th elaptop? Jul 24 19:49:47 *the Jul 24 19:49:51 08 Jul 24 19:49:57 ok Jul 24 19:50:07 hehe Jul 24 19:50:15 drivers are still an issue with ati Jul 24 19:50:15 I know they kicked legacy support to the curb Jul 24 19:50:19 Ihate how people keep saying they aren't Jul 24 19:50:25 destinal: the pixbuf stuff has to be fixed to get better speed when "flicking" / scrolling Jul 24 19:50:36 Well for me, I have no issues Jul 24 19:50:39 Is there any difference in pdf landscape Jul 24 19:50:43 in 1.l1 Jul 24 19:50:48 My broke Jul 24 19:50:55 also have to figure out how to get the viewport in sync with where you type Jul 24 19:51:25 ie when user types, it should make sure the cursor is in focus Jul 24 19:51:54 I am so happy windows 7 rtm'd Jul 24 19:52:15 i git mine mine pre-ordered for the $99 deal Jul 24 19:52:23 im getting mine for 250 Jul 24 19:52:42 Pro? Jul 24 19:52:56 tech net plus :D Jul 24 19:53:09 so all microsoft software (except visual studio) Jul 24 19:53:16 heh Jul 24 19:53:31 mine is th eupgrade version though Jul 24 19:53:37 *the Jul 24 19:55:23 As of right now i have 22 games on my Vista installation and have no issues with radeon drivers Jul 24 19:55:36 quite a few DX10 titles too Jul 24 19:58:56 wth?..they say it can take 15 mintes to load drivers for WebOS Doctor. Jul 24 19:59:25 gtg Jul 24 19:59:30 bye Jul 24 20:00:45 rebooting bbl Jul 24 20:31:23 anbody interested in developing .net applications for the pre ? Jul 24 20:33:38 with mono? Jul 24 20:33:49 yeah, but probably without requiring mono to be installed on the device Jul 24 20:34:03 (aot compilation) Jul 24 20:34:51 it seems pretty straightforward, i've gotten dbus libraries in .net, so u can communicate with mojo apps Jul 24 20:41:40 raeb: how will ui work? Jul 24 20:42:16 cool, we could port gnome-do to the pre, lol Jul 24 20:42:45 can't you do that with mojo, work it in to "universal search" Jul 24 20:43:04 that's what I was hoping from webos anyway, a keyboard driver mobile os Jul 24 20:43:33 yeah, except if you open the keyboard one time too many, the screen falls off Jul 24 20:43:37 lol Jul 24 20:46:13 oh? Jul 24 20:46:29 raeb: I would be very. Jul 24 20:47:31 raeb: (javascripts awesome, but it's no c# for ease of use and development). Jul 24 20:47:47 javascript + c# = win> Jul 24 20:47:48 ? Jul 24 20:48:01 no c# syntax not actual .net Jul 24 20:48:12 destinal: mono is awesome! Jul 24 20:48:20 So I hear Jul 24 20:48:23 so you would have to add it to webkit Jul 24 20:48:46 you know what I would like to see on my pre squid Jul 24 20:48:48 http://www.squid-cache.org/ Jul 24 20:49:00 tmzt: technically, but I think treating the widgets as controls could work. Jul 24 20:49:01 I have no idea how to do it though Jul 24 20:49:25 joesmith: I'm sure you could just install it Jul 24 20:49:28 from optware Jul 24 20:49:45 but then you'd have to set up creative iptables rules to redirect your traffic to it transparently Jul 24 20:50:13 which I have no idea how to do Jul 24 20:50:16 and why, really? squid is a caching proxy, but your browser has its own cache Jul 24 20:50:45 I would like it, to monnitor and log web access if my phone were to be used as a M0d3m Jul 24 20:51:00 oops I said a taboo Jul 24 20:51:39 joesmith: using your PC as a pre router is even better, I need to write up that reverse tethering article soon. Jul 24 20:51:45 :P Jul 24 20:51:49 lol Jul 24 20:52:04 well you understand what I mean Jul 24 20:52:09 joesmith: you could probably use iptables targets to count Jul 24 20:52:25 or you could put a netflow agent on your local machine Jul 24 20:52:26 so you wouldn't even need squid for that Jul 24 20:52:29 on the pre Jul 24 20:52:46 or maybe just something to pull the kernel traffic counters Jul 24 20:52:59 I want it if someone is using my pre, on thier laptop Jul 24 20:53:20 I just dont want my pre doing bad things Jul 24 20:53:34 and I like to share Jul 24 20:53:51 I just want a handle on it, and quid would be cool Jul 24 20:56:34 or maybe something like nufw Jul 24 21:00:53 also squid would be nice to monitor bandwidth Jul 24 21:04:41 I think a proxy/acl app like squid would be kickass, for instance log sites visited, block naughty sites (ie www.apple.com) and monitor bandwidth consumed Jul 24 21:09:13 you wouldn't have webos without Apple's investment in webkit Jul 24 21:10:07 :D only joking Jul 24 21:10:41 I semi <3 apple, but I like to make fun of them more Jul 24 21:13:50 they just reported half of Macs are to new customers, interesting Jul 24 21:14:35 hey, okay. there's a lot of irrational statments around this area though, but it's really offtopic Jul 24 21:15:19 anyone install 1.1.0 yet? Jul 24 21:15:36 a few people here Jul 24 21:16:44 I have a question about the LIST widget Jul 24 21:17:23 can anyone answer? Jul 24 21:22:27 hmm? Jul 24 21:24:35 hello, I saw a post on Precentral about running the SDK on Vista 64-bit and it said to come here if it was working Jul 24 21:25:07 ..yea Jul 24 21:25:17 its real easy, follow the site in teh topic Jul 24 21:25:23 I have a Vista 64-bit laptop and it's working fine. I even did that little test on the post and I got root@castle Jul 24 21:25:28 bzhou * r10489 optware/trunk/ (Makefile make/werc.mk sources/werc/ sources/werc/path.patch): werc: a sane web anti-framework. Added & promoted Jul 24 21:25:47 yea follow up w/ the wiki site, if u have any q Jul 24 21:27:18 ello all Jul 24 21:27:39 heya Jul 24 21:27:42 i dont have any questions about it, Rick_ said to come here if I had the SDK working fine on Vista 64bit Jul 24 21:27:53 Does the download from browser quilt work? Jul 24 21:28:06 pooh did 1.1.0 ever work for you Jul 24 21:28:19 yeah u should hang out here. Jul 24 21:28:23 lol... got a new pre this morning... with 1.1.0 perfect Jul 24 21:28:31 sweet Jul 24 21:28:31 less oreo effect too Jul 24 21:28:45 naaice. Jul 24 21:28:50 what is the orea effect anyway? Jul 24 21:29:07 none of my computers could get past 84% with the webOS doc, I believe I am the first person to ever really BORK a pre beyond repair :) Jul 24 21:29:27 oreo effect is when the top half moves side to side or twists a lil too much Jul 24 21:29:47 interesting Jul 24 21:30:02 but doctor is a little more than bootloader, if you can still boot you should be able to recover Jul 24 21:30:18 does 1 mm count as too much Jul 24 21:30:24 should I be worried Jul 24 21:31:21 dont worry Jul 24 21:32:41 worry about overclocking the silicon over a hundred degrees. Jul 24 21:33:23 I am digging the new notification sound (I dont want to stab my eardrums with a pencil now) Jul 24 21:34:28 Garrett92 Jul 24 21:34:33 you still here>? Jul 24 21:34:38 Garrett92 Jul 24 21:34:48 yes? Jul 24 21:35:02 so, what did you do to install the sdk for vista64?> Jul 24 21:35:23 nothing special, everything worked perfectly Jul 24 21:35:35 oh geee... that helps not so much. Jul 24 21:35:45 it wasnt working right until i installed the JDK 64bit tho Jul 24 21:35:52 im sorry... Jul 24 21:35:56 Garrett92 you just dowloaded the sdk, ran the install, and it worked? Jul 24 21:36:07 ok, you had to install 64 bit java... Jul 24 21:36:22 yea, before i did that it wouldnt work at all Jul 24 21:36:27 ok Jul 24 21:36:34 and the novacom just works for you? Jul 24 21:36:48 had you had any version of the sdk prior to the original release? Jul 24 21:36:49 yea, i did that little test on your post and got root@castle Jul 24 21:36:58 cool beans Garrett92 Jul 24 21:37:08 HOT DOG! Jul 24 21:37:21 Garrett92 let me double double check one thing. Jul 24 21:37:29 no, i was in the process of downloading the leaked one when i saw that it was officially reeleased by Palm Jul 24 21:37:38 right. Jul 24 21:37:42 that's what I wanted to know. Jul 24 21:37:47 so i canceled the dl of the leaked one and got the official version Jul 24 21:37:48 oky dokey. Jul 24 21:38:18 need to know anything else? Jul 24 21:38:30 joesmith what? Jul 24 21:38:49 Rick_ I just saw your post as well I've got it at home running just fine Jul 24 21:39:35 argh I cant make sprint say failzor on the carrier string :( Jul 24 21:39:58 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Change_Carrier_String Jul 24 21:41:43 also I installed my SDK to C:\Palm instead of Program Files(x86), in case that matters or not Jul 24 21:41:54 for those of you who have tried the new terminal program, what are the most important problems you've encountered, and also what keys do you really need that aren't enterable at the moment? Jul 24 21:42:21 destinal: typing exit doesnt' close the app, it does something else that confused me Jul 24 21:42:34 Garrett92 it might. Jul 24 21:42:34 "they're running multiple appliations at the same time", wow what a feature! Jul 24 21:42:39 I would like a terminal to log into my pf Jul 24 21:42:40 I'll put that in the instructions. Jul 24 21:42:46 Kaerey: that will probably stay the same, you need to hit center button and flick it away to close Jul 24 21:42:49 joesmith: pf? Jul 24 21:43:03 destinal: yeah I figured that out Jul 24 21:43:08 destinal: what is that? Jul 24 21:43:20 Rick_ I have it installed to Program Files (x86) and it works fine Jul 24 21:43:22 to ssh into my packet filter Jul 24 21:43:37 Kaerey -- did you install to program files or to c:\palm? Jul 24 21:43:48 Program Files (x86) Jul 24 21:44:04 Hello Jul 24 21:44:09 Kaerey, and you're on vista 64??? Jul 24 21:44:13 Yep Jul 24 21:44:15 destinal: I'm not sure I agree, I know windows does that when you run an application in terminal, but I expect the terminal to exit when exiting the shell Jul 24 21:44:20 weird. Jul 24 21:44:26 I guess if not other card does that it makes sense Jul 24 21:44:33 Kaerey had you had a copy of the old leaked sdk? Jul 24 21:44:34 the terminal app is awsome! Kudos to all who worked on it Jul 24 21:44:41 Rick: Nope. Jul 24 21:44:55 Kaerey I'm starting to think that may be key. Jul 24 21:44:57 or if it reinforces the ui/interface of the Pre/Webos it makes sense Jul 24 21:45:19 JackieRipper if you would consider scripting the terminal install, that would be a good thing..... Jul 24 21:45:24 sure Jul 24 21:45:26 amy chance of getting the terminal to morph into a ssh client Jul 24 21:45:26 Don't know why it would be key any smart person would uninstall the old one first Jul 24 21:45:29 the installation process is "kind of a lot of typing." Jul 24 21:45:43 Kaerey -- think about what you just said..... Jul 24 21:45:52 btw awesome work Jul 24 21:45:57 ..... IR SMURT Jul 24 21:46:36 Kaerey and that often results in mapping the thinking processes of others .... poorly. Jul 24 21:46:40 I did have safari already installed, and 32bit and 64bit Java Jul 24 21:46:51 So I just installed virtual box and the SDK Jul 24 21:47:03 I installed Safari before instaling the SDK as well Jul 24 21:47:12 ok Jul 24 21:47:19 I'm going to try a write up. Jul 24 21:47:20 since the Palm page said todo it lol Jul 24 21:47:22 I was wondering... is there any way to do special characters in the terminal? i.e. {}[]<>\`~ Some of those are rather useful Jul 24 21:47:33 or is that on the to-do list? Jul 24 21:48:18 Which is going to involve uninstalling the sdk, uninstalling novacomm, runing a regedit and checking that novacom does not appear anywhere, installing safari 4, java 32, java64, virtualbox and then rebooting and then install the sdk. Jul 24 21:48:22 sound right? Jul 24 21:48:26 has anyone tried the download from browser patch on 1.1.0? Jul 24 21:48:36 we werejust discussing that. Jul 24 21:48:44 sounds good to me Jul 24 21:48:45 in particular | Jul 24 21:49:13 DarthPooh not that I know of. Jul 24 21:49:13 Rick: I didn't uninstall novacomm when installing the SDK Jul 24 21:49:24 Kaerey, did you HAVE novacom before? Jul 24 21:49:36 Rick_: I'll see if I can get something out there for review in a few minutes Jul 24 21:49:38 because if you did, it might have stayed in from a previous install. Jul 24 21:49:40 Rick_, its a big one to try... wonder if I should give it a go? Jul 24 21:49:42 Yeah from gaining root access from the webOSDr Jul 24 21:49:51 well.... Jul 24 21:50:11 then Kaerey, how do we tell which novacom is there now? Jul 24 21:50:13 maybe I should apply it on the SDK :) Jul 24 21:50:14 But during install of the SDK you clearly see it stop the previous version Jul 24 21:50:21 ok Jul 24 21:50:24 well Jul 24 21:50:41 I'm trying tofigure out why so many people can't get nova to run on vista64. Jul 24 21:50:56 it doesn't make sense. Jul 24 21:51:05 It wouldn't be some weird 3rd party firewall would it? Jul 24 21:51:17 I was just thinking firewall Jul 24 21:51:18 bpadalino -- firewalls aren't going to interfere with novacom are they? Jul 24 21:52:04 Should I wait or try the 1.1.0 that is out now Jul 24 21:52:32 nova may be a pebcac issue, 4 of my friends have installed 64bit sdk Jul 24 21:52:41 with no issure Jul 24 21:52:53 terminal now on the front page of precentral Jul 24 21:53:11 credited to _me_ for the tag, but rwhitby did the tag. Why did I get credit? Jul 24 21:53:12 weird. Jul 24 21:53:43 Rod talked to Dieter ON THE PHONE. Jul 24 21:53:46 really weird. Jul 24 21:54:18 i'll let dieter kno if you want Jul 24 21:54:21 Rick_: you sent him the email first Jul 24 21:54:23 pebcak you mean? Jul 24 21:54:28 oh Jul 24 21:54:34 I didn't mean to scoop you Rod. Jul 24 21:54:47 I ment it as a backup. You said you had pinged him BEFORE i sent it. Jul 24 21:54:51 It's ok Jul 24 21:54:57 oh, and good morning rwhitby Jul 24 21:55:01 i'll let dieter know he sucks Jul 24 21:55:03 it just struck me as odd..... Jul 24 21:55:13 and that you said so Jul 24 21:55:17 DarthPooh -- don't do that. We _like_ Deiter. Jul 24 21:55:30 I'll cut this out and sent it to him.. :-) Jul 24 21:55:36 so he sees what you think... :-) Jul 24 21:55:48 DarthPooh: deiter has called it correctly. Rick let him know and enox sent the screenshot Jul 24 21:56:07 fuck him, I'll tell him to his face ;) Jul 24 21:56:14 rwhitby being the power in the background again..... Jul 24 21:56:22 retiring in to the wilds of au Jul 24 21:56:41 rwhitby, :) kk... had to get a new pre this morning. diagnosis: possibly fried the ram during update Jul 24 21:57:05 Linking to the commit log was a good move by Dieter Jul 24 21:57:24 DarthPooh: so unrelated to homebrew or webos-internals? Jul 24 21:57:36 holy crap batman...a terminal! Jul 24 21:57:46 Rick_, I can see him attacking kowala bears with his bear hands Jul 24 21:58:00 I sent him the link to the commit log. Jul 24 21:58:04 rwhitby, yah, the Palm tech says they've fried units with previous updates. Jul 24 21:58:21 There was someone else in here with the same problem earlier Jul 24 21:58:26 rwhitby, it just happens on rewrite of the ROM and then the RAM get Jul 24 21:58:29 changed his name to Chump Jul 24 21:58:30 gets burnt out Jul 24 21:59:02 nothing to do with my quilts or mods... Jul 24 21:59:19 since they've repoduced this before. Jul 24 22:00:04 I might go ahead with the download from browser quilt... not sure yet. or try it on the SDK at least. Jul 24 22:00:23 Well I'm going to go chmod & kill the daemon that does the Pre updates, until I know more about this one. Jul 24 22:02:00 DarthPooh: interesting Jul 24 22:02:25 DarthPooh: how high up the supervisor chain did you need to go to get someone to admit that? Jul 24 22:03:05 rwhitby: to say the least... I wasn't alone either, the thread you posted in has others with similar experiences. not very far, I went to tech support 2 I think, and it wasn't even a supervisor, she just said they've reproduced it with demo units Jul 24 22:04:34 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Anyone successfully using this? I installed it, run it, Scary Black Screen title is shown, but the screen is only white with no apparent terminal. Jul 24 22:04:52 did you try to start typing? Jul 24 22:05:05 shouldnot be white Jul 24 22:05:07 interesting. that's completely awful. in four years of nslu2-linux.org and custom firmware we were never had a known broken flash except for cases whether the power was pulled. Jul 24 22:05:07 should be black Jul 24 22:05:35 warren: which step of the instructions did you miss? Jul 24 22:05:37 yes, tried typing Jul 24 22:05:37 ;-) Jul 24 22:05:46 warren you missed a step Jul 24 22:05:57 specifically, you did not get the plugin installed right. Jul 24 22:06:02 rwhitby: I bypassed adding the preware ipkg repo and just did wget of that ipkg, then ipkg install Jul 24 22:06:17 well I asked if it could have been a surge in power or something, she said she didn't know enough about all of that. Jul 24 22:06:23 ummmm Jul 24 22:06:27 warren: ok, go back and fix your error then. Jul 24 22:06:42 you actually need the preware repo? Jul 24 22:06:58 oops Jul 24 22:07:02 did you also bypass adding the ln-s /etc/ipkg/arch.conf /var/etc/ipkg Jul 24 22:07:15 because that's critical without it the arm7 stuff doesn't get installed. Jul 24 22:07:34 good thing I saw that link lol Jul 24 22:07:39 Rick_: warren said "that ipkg" which means only one for a start. Jul 24 22:07:40 rwhitby: I don't think the commit log was the best thing Jul 24 22:07:43 I just put the folder on me Pre Jul 24 22:08:01 rwhitby: the applications repo is a lot of other stuff which I don't think was what he intended Jul 24 22:08:28 destinal: meh - there's plenty of credit to spread around anyone who commited to our repo lately :-) Jul 24 22:08:41 rwhitby: heh, fair enough Jul 24 22:09:02 warren it is possible to install without the repository, but the ipkg from palm out of the box does not do arm7 binaries. Jul 24 22:09:16 and the process as produced on the web page step by step fixes all of that Jul 24 22:09:38 PLUS it makes it so that as destinal and crew update the terminal you can update yours over-the-air with just ipkg update. Jul 24 22:09:40 which is cool Jul 24 22:09:43 so do the whole thing. Jul 24 22:09:57 Rick_: ipkg -o /var update ;-) Jul 24 22:10:07 ok ok ok rod's fussy that way. Jul 24 22:10:19 why is reboot necesssary? Jul 24 22:10:30 Freakin long reboot times Jul 24 22:10:33 suck Jul 24 22:10:37 we need to add a script for that. the preware-bootstrap.sh script will drop a new command in /usr/sbin ... Jul 24 22:10:41 I don't think a reboot IS necessary, is it? Jul 24 22:10:53 warren: it may not be - what's your experience? Jul 24 22:10:55 the page says reboot Jul 24 22:10:59 Just a luna restart I think no? Jul 24 22:11:12 JackieRipper is working on scripting the terminal install as we speak Jul 24 22:11:15 Eguy: if you update a .so file, when will it get picked up? Jul 24 22:11:29 hmm Jul 24 22:11:31 I am not sure Jul 24 22:11:42 too many people right now are only thinking about initial installation of homebrew and not about maintenance, updates, dependencies and removal. Jul 24 22:11:50 I know it picks up folders Jul 24 22:11:55 yeah, rebooting will be important when you update Jul 24 22:12:12 destinal: so we train people to do that from the start :-) Jul 24 22:12:12 if the module is loaded and you overwrite it, Luna will usually crash when it tries to use it Jul 24 22:12:17 It is annoying to manually have to update ipks, rwhitby, your right Jul 24 22:12:37 did we already start a wiki page on the 1.1.0 update ? Jul 24 22:12:39 rebooting forces reload, so good. Jul 24 22:12:39 Eguy: it's completely unnecessary. Palm used ipkg for a good reason. Jul 24 22:12:45 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal the commands of this page does not mention the make filesystem writable step right? Jul 24 22:12:52 pkill LunaSysMgr would work too but it takes almost as long as a reboot Jul 24 22:13:04 warren: sure it does. Jul 24 22:13:19 "You need to be logged in as root with a writeable filesystem. Instructions for both those things can be found elsewhere on this wiki." Jul 24 22:13:44 rwhitby: about the symlink step, was a postinst tried also? it would seem to be easier Jul 24 22:14:00 destinal: didn't try it. Jul 24 22:14:13 just have a postinst mv the .so where it goes Jul 24 22:14:30 for me the symlink broke since I already had a .so out there, had to remove Jul 24 22:14:49 destinal: yeah, I was thinking that this is good webos-internals where the installer finds out about a /usr/lib/BrowserPlugins directory, and maybe has their interest piqued to join us. Jul 24 22:15:20 destinal: the postinst would symlink anyway, otherwise removal is not clean. Jul 24 22:15:33 alright Jul 24 22:15:37 rwhitby: ah, good point Jul 24 22:15:37 phew Jul 24 22:15:43 got the terminal up Jul 24 22:15:50 this is fantastic work fellas Jul 24 22:15:57 ipkg -o /var install ; ipkg -o /var remove ; *must* leave no residue. Jul 24 22:16:11 rwhitby: well an mv on install wouldn't leave residue Jul 24 22:16:34 it's just probably a bad practice to not leave files where the control file thinks they are Jul 24 22:16:36 destinal: sure it would, cause ipkg -o /var remove would be trying to remove the file that you've moved away behind it's back Jul 24 22:16:56 ie not hurt anything in practice, just not a good state to be in Jul 24 22:17:24 destinal: we need to be the packaging benchmark Jul 24 22:17:55 rwhitby: by the way it does work for full screen apps, and escape is orange + space Jul 24 22:18:12 this was true last night but I didn't have a chance to edit the wiki article today Jul 24 22:18:36 export TERM=vt100 is key Jul 24 22:19:14 destinal can you give me a quick run down on the special key strokes and I will go edit the wiki now. Jul 24 22:19:40 and do you have to do export TERM=vt100 every time you run it? Jul 24 22:19:50 sym is control, control-I should work for tab, and orange, space is escape I think that's it for now. Jul 24 22:19:53 and is there some what that the mojo app could do that when it initializes the plugin? Jul 24 22:20:07 destinal? Jul 24 22:20:09 Rick_: It is something that I think we can set in the terminal Jul 24 22:20:21 ok -- future enhancement got it. Jul 24 22:20:22 in the plugin Jul 24 22:20:30 Edit coming in a moment. Jul 24 22:20:41 for now you have to type if since "linux" uses ansi codes that will look very ugly and ruin your usability Jul 24 22:20:50 s/if/it/ Jul 24 22:20:51 destinal meant: for now you have to type it since "linux" uses ansi codes that will look very ugly and ruin your usability Jul 24 22:20:53 omg this Terminal is fantastic! Jul 24 22:20:57 good bye dev mode Jul 24 22:21:06 hmm, why does the , button not work in terminal Jul 24 22:21:43 warren: that's a bug, thanks for reporting it :) Jul 24 22:21:49 I didn't realize that Jul 24 22:21:57 tsk tsk destinal Jul 24 22:22:03 unacceptable Jul 24 22:22:03 I was trying to type the dash character Jul 24 22:22:31 dash is orange, s Jul 24 22:22:51 orange and comma is underscore, also broken Jul 24 22:23:02 we DID say early alpha at least :P Jul 24 22:23:05 destinal: is typing the @ sign broken? Jul 24 22:23:11 HAHA Jul 24 22:23:23 warren: yes, thanks. please find more! Jul 24 22:23:32 destinal: I can't find the Any Key Jul 24 22:23:34 =) Jul 24 22:23:52 lmao Jul 24 22:24:00 all this computer hacking is making me thirsty Jul 24 22:24:34 that reminds me we need a tab. control-I is probably not something most will think of Jul 24 22:24:47 and it may not work right now at that, have to check Jul 24 22:24:53 is there a ctrl+alt+del key for the Terminal? Jul 24 22:25:09 http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Precentralnet/~3/k7Y1dGGQC8g/hey-jim-cramer-let-us-google-you :( Jul 24 22:25:36 Eguy: it's a secret key you can activate by typing rm .. Jul 24 22:25:42 :D Jul 24 22:25:43 I won't just in case someone takes me seriously Jul 24 22:25:46 destinal: whoa nice, rotate works Jul 24 22:25:47 Good idea Jul 24 22:26:24 sup everyone? Jul 24 22:26:36 Jim Cramer just lost my respect Jul 24 22:26:40 destinal: what about a transitional page that mentions that? Jul 24 22:26:49 it's perfectly usable once you know it Jul 24 22:26:49 ctrl-i is one I use all the time on my n810 Jul 24 22:27:04 I used it on the q Jul 24 22:27:07 save a key Jul 24 22:27:11 ok Jul 24 22:27:11 saved Jul 24 22:27:49 ooh I let my pre fall asleep and came back to see broadcast messages from powerd on my screen Jul 24 22:27:59 (in terminal) Jul 24 22:28:20 destinal: so the Scary Black Screen title is cute, but might we be able to get rid of that for more screen space later? Jul 24 22:28:24 Terminal works great Jul 24 22:28:34 warren: the scary black title is a temporary placeholder Jul 24 22:28:48 ....for iPhone can't do this Jul 24 22:29:01 we need to put a proper border around the top to get 90 angled corners Jul 24 22:29:35 otherwise when the browser composites our window it chops part off by rounding the card edges Jul 24 22:30:02 how many pixels does that come out to? Jul 24 22:30:17 2x2 or more Jul 24 22:30:29 I have it somewhere in bascplugin, I don't recall off the top of my head Jul 24 22:30:30 en0x: re telling people - I only meant that until we had three alpha testers get the wiki instructions right. shout it from the rooftops now :-) Jul 24 22:30:45 rubbish Jul 24 22:30:50 apple is better Jul 24 22:30:53 destinal: so i'm guessing one ipkg is the card, and the plugin runs it as a native app (not javascript?) Jul 24 22:30:54 pah Jul 24 22:30:57 en0x: since in this group we put up reproducible instructions before screenshots and youtube videos ;-) Jul 24 22:31:11 destinal: this gives me hope that not all apps will be limited by javascript Jul 24 22:31:31 warren: there's a mojo app that embeds a plugin, the two are in seperate ipkg files, yes Jul 24 22:31:53 just about everything is in c++ on the plugin Jul 24 22:32:30 destinal: does it have to be two ipk's? Jul 24 22:32:49 I guess if you consider it a component or shared widget Jul 24 22:33:04 destinal: is there a tab button so we can autocomplete? Jul 24 22:33:13 tmzt: it enables that but I am concerned that updating one and not the other could be problematic Jul 24 22:33:26 terminal and IRC client are the two things that I'm missing now Jul 24 22:33:37 if we make a change that crosses the mojo boundary and needs a new object or function from the plugin Jul 24 22:33:52 warren: use irssi, if the curses stuff will work Jul 24 22:34:05 it'd be nice to have an IRC client as a card Jul 24 22:34:36 destinal: could the code on the javascript side detect if the plugin across the boundary is updated and print an error message? Jul 24 22:34:45 destinal: I guess you could allow configuring certain cards to run certain commands Jul 24 22:34:58 or maybe mikedg's anycut could help Jul 24 22:35:44 Rick_: if you're adding stuff to the wiki page, a major bug right now is that enlarging the window for the scrollback also enlarges the entire terminal (stty opts) so eventually you'll have hundreds or thousands of rows in the terminal and while it works, that is a huge virtual space to deal with Jul 24 22:36:35 I'll check it when I get home or maybe mrvc or zuchmir2 will get to it before I do Jul 24 22:37:27 can't type , and _ both necessary to make filessytem writable Jul 24 22:39:22 destinal: will we have any shortcuts to press Up, Down, Left, Right? Jul 24 22:39:52 what is the command to show space left again? Jul 24 22:39:54 warren: our current plan is to let you hold your finger down on the gesture area and have the numeric keypad area become up down left right, etc Jul 24 22:40:01 I forgot Jul 24 22:40:09 destinal: that's pretty cool Jul 24 22:41:23 destinal: oh, terminal emulation codes are showing now, furhter plans there? Jul 24 22:41:35 warren: did you try Jul 24 22:41:39 warren: export TERM=vt100 Jul 24 22:41:40 ? Jul 24 22:42:12 the case is important, make sure you match Jul 24 22:42:41 destinal I got thoe instructions up in the wiki now. Jul 24 22:42:43 thanks, that's working for top at least Jul 24 22:42:53 our power's been flashing on and off Jul 24 22:43:22 destinal: have you ever run pssh on a Treo? Jul 24 22:44:35 destinal: ipkg -o /var update will handle dependencies between the app and the plugin. That's why we put the preware feed in the instructions, not just wget like warren did Jul 24 22:45:03 Rick_: i think localhost -> localhost connections are all allowed by default on the pre Jul 24 22:45:09 but it's a good thing to doublecheck Jul 24 22:48:09 anyone know how to change login settings in the email? Jul 24 22:48:13 it grays out Jul 24 22:48:24 detinal: a note for you, don't do du in the terminal app Jul 24 22:48:35 used up my entire Pre's ram and it is slow as hell Jul 24 22:48:43 lol Jul 24 22:48:53 Eguy: don't du above /dev/kmem Jul 24 22:49:16 I did du /var and it was quite intensive Jul 24 22:49:23 does grep -R from / still crash the Pre? Jul 24 22:50:04 * Eguy looks at someone else :P Jul 24 22:50:05 what are you trying to do? Jul 24 22:50:31 bpadalino what I'm wondering about is the folks trying to use novacom with vista64 who have so many problems Jul 24 22:50:40 could a firewall on the PC bescrewing them up? Jul 24 22:51:01 rwhitby: I haven't ever used a Treo before, I left palm when moving off my Palm Vx and didn't come back until now Jul 24 22:51:13 hmm, my phone running no apps is using 210MB of the 256MB RAM Jul 24 22:51:27 How did you see the ram usage? Jul 24 22:51:33 destinal can you check the wiki page on the terminal quicly? Jul 24 22:51:47 warren: webkit on the Pre caches a lot of recently used pages Jul 24 22:51:48 destinal: pssh has a little bar where you can hit special characters with your finger instead of holding down three keys Jul 24 22:52:19 http://handheld.softpedia.com/images/software/screens/pssh-2.gif Jul 24 22:52:23 sigh, optware irssi has a lot of deps that I don't want Jul 24 22:52:30 sideways scrollable special keys mojo item on the bottom of the screen? Jul 24 22:52:45 oh - you mean novacom on the host pc being blocked by a firewall ? Jul 24 22:52:48 quite possible Jul 24 22:52:52 yes bpadalino Jul 24 22:52:53 rwhitby: ah, so touchscreen keys. Jul 24 22:53:03 right Jul 24 22:53:04 warren: repackaging contributions welcome :-) Jul 24 22:53:18 we have a lot of people who come in here and can't get novacom to work on Vista 64. Jul 24 22:53:29 I'm wondering if there's a possibility it's some security app or other. Jul 24 22:53:53 heh Jul 24 22:54:03 destinal: so, we need multiple cards for independent terminals, right? ;-) so you can run top in one .... Jul 24 22:54:12 what was that about pssh? Jul 24 22:54:35 when the screen turns off, it kills the wifi, does it kill the EVDO too? Jul 24 22:54:35 asedeno_work: an example of putting hard-to-hit-on-the-keyboard characters on the touchscreen Jul 24 22:54:36 rwhitby: yes, we need to make it a multi-stage app and have it spawn a new card on launch Jul 24 22:54:48 might be a challenge to use an IRC client when its network disappears often Jul 24 22:54:55 destinal: is the backend architected for multiple terms? Jul 24 22:54:59 rwhitby: yes Jul 24 22:55:11 warren: use an irc bouncer, like bip. Jul 24 22:55:13 rwhitby: all state variables are stored as properties of the embed Jul 24 22:55:23 I used pssh all the time. I had a modified version that used the alt key as another shift key with a different keymap Jul 24 22:55:25 destinal: nicely done. you guys thought ahead. Jul 24 22:55:27 rwhitby: so another embed should have its own, even on the same card Jul 24 22:55:54 which admittedly would be hard to do on the same card with the event handler :) Jul 24 22:56:14 but another card should be cool Jul 24 22:56:26 destinal: or just run optware screen in the first card :-) Jul 24 22:56:28 anyone got a fix on the PDF rotation? Jul 24 22:56:37 1.1 broke it Jul 24 22:56:54 am I missing something Jul 24 22:57:01 why run an irc client on your pre? Jul 24 22:57:01 where by had, I mean I have the source, and working binaries, and can still build it. I was considering getting it working better with Classic at some point. Jul 24 22:57:07 is there a working terminal app already? Jul 24 22:57:08 heh Jul 24 22:58:19 jwm: why not? Jul 24 22:58:30 nah, just curious Jul 24 22:58:40 but yeah, theres a terminal app, or so i've heard ;) Jul 24 22:58:41 you have to have a computer to access it Jul 24 22:59:04 http://www.precentral.net/ Jul 24 22:59:29 wtf is a 'goodly folks' Jul 24 23:00:29 goodly means pleasantly attractive, or significantly large Jul 24 23:00:40 so either he's hittin on us, or makin a fat joke Jul 24 23:00:49 jwm: you have to have access to linux on your pre to install it at the moment, but it's a gui terminal in a card. Jul 24 23:01:02 I'm using weechat on my Pre, although I ssh'ed in from my laptop to do so. Jul 24 23:02:14 hmm, what is a good ssh client? Jul 24 23:02:19 I'm using dropbear for sshd Jul 24 23:02:32 http://www.pcworld.com/article/169039/palm_pre_is_the_most_open_mobile_platform_on_the_market.html Jul 24 23:02:56 warren: for which platform Jul 24 23:03:42 quick question. has anyone figured out how to take a picture from the command line yet? Jul 24 23:03:50 I use dropbear too... to get the the pre I use puTTY Jul 24 23:04:44 damn Jul 24 23:04:49 cant ssh to my pre anymore for some reason Jul 24 23:04:59 raeb: to run ssh client on the pre itself to login to other machines Jul 24 23:05:11 "Oh crap, I'm at the airport and need to do something on my server." Jul 24 23:05:17 dropbear ships with ssh client Jul 24 23:05:22 same bin. Jul 24 23:05:25 oh Jul 24 23:05:30 it's a little lame but works Jul 24 23:05:30 what is the luna resend command again? Jul 24 23:05:37 I am too lazy to look it up :P Jul 24 23:06:34 nevermind, looks like the terminal app reset my phone ;) Jul 24 23:06:41 warren1: you can also run dropbear for server and openssh for client Jul 24 23:06:56 I'll see how lame it is as a client first. Jul 24 23:07:11 then you get the best of both worlds. small server ram footprint, and good agent forwarding support for best-practice private key protection Jul 24 23:07:44 "Pre is invulnerable to remote access unless its owner follows a somewhat tedious process to activate Developer Mode, and Palm made locking the phone back down a one-touch operation." yeah, one button: upupdowndownleftright.... Jul 24 23:08:03 Good news everyone: I just installed an ipk from precentral using destinals terminal app :) Jul 24 23:08:08 raeb: where is that from? Jul 24 23:08:11 no dev mode needed Jul 24 23:08:12 raeb: you don't have that button your pre? It is big and red with that text written on it. Jul 24 23:08:22 Eguy: yeah, ipkg -o /var should work fine. Jul 24 23:08:25 http://www.pcworld.com/article/169039/palm_pre_is_the_most_open_mobile_platform_on_the_market.html Jul 24 23:08:38 worked perfectly Jul 24 23:08:45 ok, dropbear is a lame client Jul 24 23:08:51 yep, rwhitby that is what I used Jul 24 23:10:17 rwhitby how do you run dropbear and openssh again? I keep forgetting to try this out Jul 24 23:10:42 jauderho: just install them both, and choose the upstart script for the one you want as server (which will be dropbear) Jul 24 23:10:53 jauderho: our optware-bootstrap script does this automatically for everyone Jul 24 23:11:11 Hey everyone, hope all is well. Jul 24 23:11:23 hmm I have not tried the optware-bootstrap script. will have to check it out. Jul 24 23:11:35 Great job webos-internals! thanks! Jul 24 23:13:45 Eguy: how did you get the ipk though to install? Jul 24 23:13:58 oh copy paste URL? Jul 24 23:14:08 nah I typed out the full url Jul 24 23:14:08 wait Jul 24 23:14:14 that doesn't work yet :) Jul 24 23:14:15 took a while Jul 24 23:14:16 Brb Jul 24 23:14:52 Is there a hack to get around the "out of free space" error with var Jul 24 23:15:02 sweet, now I have real ssh client and terminal on my phone, thanks! Jul 24 23:15:53 Rick_: still here? Jul 24 23:16:18 I fixed my var error but a lot of people have it Jul 24 23:16:22 from optware Jul 24 23:16:41 http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/wuGLC7ciwOA/Palm-Pre-iTunes-Syncing-Back-With-WebOS-11-Update Jul 24 23:16:48 anyone looking for some glue? Jul 24 23:17:04 lo iTunes 8.2.2 out next week Jul 24 23:17:07 lol* Jul 24 23:17:23 hmm Jul 24 23:17:32 when I try to run terimnal now, it says I have too many open cards Jul 24 23:17:37 but I have no other cards Jul 24 23:17:41 It is going to go back and forth Jul 24 23:18:04 Sync will break, palm will change, apple will respond back with a new iTunes version Jul 24 23:18:09 Apple is just stupid Jul 24 23:18:33 Eguy: apple fanboys on the forums seem to think palm is stupid Jul 24 23:18:44 hehe Jul 24 23:18:48 Apple fanboys.... Jul 24 23:19:01 Their brains are very teeny :) Jul 24 23:19:07 http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/24/palm-complains-about-apple-to-usb-governing-body-while-pre-it/ Jul 24 23:19:10 and it gets better Jul 24 23:19:16 I know I love that one Jul 24 23:19:27 Palm went to the USB government HAHAH Jul 24 23:19:42 iTunes, defective by design Jul 24 23:19:48 * Eguy nods Jul 24 23:20:01 it could be an emulator from my perspective Jul 24 23:20:14 I consider not being able to talk to a device that speaks your protocol because of manufacturer discrimination a defect. Jul 24 23:20:14 maybe if this is "illegal" so is VMWare? Jul 24 23:20:22 or the other way around Jul 24 23:20:40 I love that smilies are back in 1.1 :) Jul 24 23:20:48 since a components of VMWare (or Virtual Box or qemu or kvm, etc.) Jul 24 23:20:58 emulates the device connected to your system Jul 24 23:21:24 destinal: it's not even a protocol, it's a file system layout Jul 24 23:21:52 * rwhitby posts http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1777188 to have a dig at all these secretive installer app development groups ... Jul 24 23:22:50 the game is on! Jul 24 23:23:15 :) Jul 24 23:23:35 We will win anyway... Jul 24 23:23:44 our people are too awesome Jul 24 23:24:29 "To send a tab use SYM-I" Jul 24 23:24:34 this doesn't seem to be working Jul 24 23:24:40 underscore works fine Jul 24 23:24:49 and dash works fine Jul 24 23:24:52 warren: ok then it's a bug on sending tab, I'll check it Jul 24 23:25:29 rwhitby: way to point out that ipkg -o /var from a term already got there first :) Jul 24 23:26:02 can ipkg install optware so u can ipkg-opt ? Jul 24 23:26:10 yes Jul 24 23:26:13 nice! Jul 24 23:26:26 raeb: we're using ipkg -o /var, since that emulates exactly what palm-install does Jul 24 23:26:49 right Jul 24 23:26:58 I was using ipkg-opt until I found that out ... oops :P Jul 24 23:27:10 ipkg-opt is for a different set of tools than ipkg Jul 24 23:27:13 or so i thought Jul 24 23:27:51 test Jul 24 23:27:57 I think I have the terminal app installation pretty well scripted Jul 24 23:28:12 sometimes the terminal stops displaying any text Jul 24 23:28:17 I think it is pretty easy now Jul 24 23:28:27 Rick pointed out that it's "a lot of typing" Jul 24 23:28:28 I'm running weechat in terminal, I can type in it and it appears in this channel, but I can't see anything Jul 24 23:28:34 but a sh script would be the easiest I guess :P Jul 24 23:28:49 i cant see what i am typing Jul 24 23:28:55 I can't use vi in it. Anyone have any hints? Jul 24 23:28:57 JackieRipper: nice - same repo? Jul 24 23:29:11 rwhitby: I /just/ finished it Jul 24 23:29:11 I don't know about using vi while on the pre Jul 24 23:29:20 :) Jul 24 23:29:36 is there a terminal app yet? Jul 24 23:29:40 I wouldn't use vi on it Jul 24 23:29:43 Jack: I prefer using nano Jul 24 23:30:02 OK, I tried the terminal that was no longer able to see what I am running. Jul 24 23:30:21 The weechat process is still running despite the terminal being gone. Jul 24 23:33:55 ~terminal Jul 24 23:33:56 hmm... terminal is very, very alpha, but can be found at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 24 23:34:04 alphakamp: ^^ Jul 24 23:34:34 looks like the vi that came with the pre works better than vim Jul 24 23:34:54 still can't seem to exit a file, though Jul 24 23:35:08 terminal Jul 24 23:35:22 there is a terminal app? Jul 24 23:35:46 warren: worth checking whether processes are cascade-killed properly when the terminal goes away. I haven't checked Jul 24 23:35:51 very very alph Jul 24 23:35:57 s/lph/lpha/ Jul 24 23:35:57 destinal meant: very very alpha Jul 24 23:36:05 dest: everytime I run the terminal app my phone resets when I quit it Jul 24 23:36:17 Eguy: wow, congratulations Jul 24 23:36:19 alf ? Jul 24 23:36:27 is that on purpose? Jul 24 23:36:34 thatdude: with all respect to my buddy Chris who wrote nano... it's lacking Jul 24 23:36:35 feature or bug Jul 24 23:36:39 Eguy: it checks to see if it's you and then does that Jul 24 23:36:44 hahaha Jul 24 23:36:49 name dropper Jul 24 23:36:50 thanks for that Jul 24 23:37:07 Eguy: I have never seen a reset on quit Jul 24 23:37:15 werid Jul 24 23:37:26 Eguy: did you reboot after installing the plugin? Jul 24 23:37:31 I mean, I don't mind it since I would probably have to reboot anyway Jul 24 23:37:39 after doing stuff in it Jul 24 23:37:42 yes i did Jul 24 23:37:47 hmmm Jul 24 23:37:48 JackieRipper: I have 3 years with linux and I don't understand using VI :/ - I am spoiled with nano :P Jul 24 23:37:54 ~nano Jul 24 23:37:55 somebody said nano was at http://www.nano-editor.org/, or a DFSG-free alternative to pico, or 10^-9 Jul 24 23:38:00 lol Jul 24 23:38:04 ~pico Jul 24 23:38:05 somebody said pico was a non-free text editor. Try nano as a GPL'ed alternative, or if you insist on pico, download the source for pine from non-free, build it, and install the resulting pico_something.deb Jul 24 23:38:14 ~destinal Jul 24 23:38:22 awww Jul 24 23:38:28 rwhitby: cool hope that gets better Jul 24 23:38:30 ~vi Jul 24 23:38:31 it has been said that vi is the best text editor in the world. Jul 24 23:38:32 Eguy: it knows me not. Jul 24 23:38:35 agree Jul 24 23:38:40 infobot does not know the awesomness of destinal Jul 24 23:38:51 thatdude: the main thing I would do with a terminal app on my phone is ssh into work when I get paged because something broke... and most of our boxes don't have nano Jul 24 23:38:51 ~Pre Jul 24 23:38:53 ~eguy Jul 24 23:38:59 :( Jul 24 23:39:03 :'( Jul 24 23:39:14 +k inofbot Jul 24 23:39:16 ~eno Jul 24 23:39:17 eno is probably works tirelessly on Optware. He is the unsung hero keeping it working Jul 24 23:39:17 infobot* Jul 24 23:39:30 is probably works? Jul 24 23:39:35 eh? Jul 24 23:39:38 destinal: it seems killing all child processes would be a good thing Jul 24 23:39:39 JackieRipper: Make it happen, your slacking ;) Jul 24 23:39:51 ~rwhitby Jul 24 23:39:52 i guess rwhitby is the owner of the nslu2-linux mailing list and IRC channel. He tries to provide some order to the burgeoning development around the NSLU2. You can find his website at http://www.rwhitby.net (where in particular, you will find information on Serial Port modifications for the Linksys WRT54G and NSLU2 devices). Jul 24 23:40:08 Oh you cheeky... Jul 24 23:40:08 esc is definately required Jul 24 23:40:17 destinal: because the apps using up resources that aren't killed are otherwise invisible Jul 24 23:40:18 tmzt: orance space Jul 24 23:40:26 s/nce/nge/ Jul 24 23:40:26 destinal meant: tmzt: orange space Jul 24 23:40:26 destinal: might be a support problem Jul 24 23:40:58 warren: well, killing the exec'd shell should do the job Jul 24 23:40:59 destinal: okay, cool Jul 24 23:41:01 infobot: no, eno is Eno works tirelessly on Optware. He is the unsung hero keeping it all working. Jul 24 23:41:01 | ? Jul 24 23:41:02 okay, rwhitby Jul 24 23:41:03 cascade kill Jul 24 23:41:04 I am proud that we have some hardcore linux users here. I also though the G1 was going to be that amazing linux mobile device but the Pre is the one. Jul 24 23:41:23 lol Jul 24 23:41:28 good infobot Jul 24 23:41:33 ~botsnack Jul 24 23:41:33 rwhitby: aw, gee Jul 24 23:41:35 thatdude: I totally agree Jul 24 23:41:59 If Palm is smart, they would be watching this community so they know who to hire. Jul 24 23:41:59 I just wish the build quality was solid Jul 24 23:42:10 I mean really really solid Jul 24 23:42:14 like a 90's nokia Jul 24 23:42:14 Like Red Hat knows who to hire by watching the most productive Fedora contributors. Jul 24 23:42:17 tmzt: sorry, | is lacking as are , and _ and @. I consider this a bug that I will fix as soon as I get home if mrvc doesn't magically get there first (he tends to fix things before I get there) :) Jul 24 23:42:20 warren: You never know. They might have a scout in here. Jul 24 23:42:40 Palm does watch this channel Jul 24 23:42:40 I can't ssh without the @ sign =) Jul 24 23:42:47 Say Hi Palm! Jul 24 23:42:52 destinal: though of it since zaurus used fn-space for it I think Jul 24 23:43:13 what do people want for | Jul 24 23:43:30 orange + . ? Jul 24 23:43:43 orange is evil Jul 24 23:44:16 and what about \ , where can we put that? Jul 24 23:44:46 btw (different topic), I guess there's no way to put text into the clipboard that is outside of a text entry field? Jul 24 23:44:52 orange q Jul 24 23:45:14 so shift q for / orange q for \ Jul 24 23:45:31 shift q is Q Jul 24 23:45:32 Eguy: shift q is Q Jul 24 23:45:43 ah, yes Jul 24 23:45:44 "not because i was scared of root or anything (15+ years unix admin) but because i'm going to want to load it so full of crazy hacks I'll get sucked in and never get any real work done!" Jul 24 23:45:48 sorry about that Jul 24 23:45:53 raeb: :) Jul 24 23:45:56 It has been a long and and long week ;) Jul 24 23:46:07 long day* Jul 24 23:46:23 what about orange shift q Jul 24 23:46:30 I've also not managed to get any of the "touch gesture area + key" shortcuts to work in any app, I might be doing it wrong or misunderstanding the docs. Jul 24 23:46:54 Eguy: difficult to press three buttons at once Jul 24 23:47:01 we need to do gesture area + key for numpad to arrow keys and maybe some other things that make sense Jul 24 23:47:06 You just need 2 hands Jul 24 23:47:15 destinal: so what about shrinking the plugin a little, and using mojo buttons for esc key, etc Jul 24 23:47:16 maybe gesture area + q i= \ Jul 24 23:47:24 yeah Jul 24 23:47:28 if possible Jul 24 23:47:36 more screen space is better Jul 24 23:47:45 can always make it a pop-over too Jul 24 23:47:49 raeb: good point, we already have to give up the lines with the rounded edges Jul 24 23:47:55 stupid rounded edges Jul 24 23:48:00 OTOH the top of the screen needs to be curved, so might as well put buttons up there Jul 24 23:48:01 hit key combo to bring up pop over with many buttons that aren't on keyboard Jul 24 23:48:02 I would suggest keeping the most useful characters most acessible Jul 24 23:48:07 what about using the sym button to call up the symbols and just click those Jul 24 23:48:21 although fn+qwerty is quite usable once you et used to it Jul 24 23:48:22 Eguy: we need symbol for control, but maybe sym+sym Jul 24 23:48:29 since we don't need a control-lock Jul 24 23:48:40 ah Jul 24 23:48:54 what about plugging a keyboard into the pre and using that? Jul 24 23:48:56 :P Jul 24 23:49:01 btw, is there anything you can run at the commandline to turn off the screen power off ? (prevent wifi from turning off temporarily) Jul 24 23:49:15 there is a mod Jul 24 23:49:27 to have wifi stay on Jul 24 23:49:33 Eguy: I have a palm bluetooth keyboard at home just waiting to be used, once BT HID devices can be made to work on the pre Jul 24 23:49:45 I remember Jul 24 23:49:48 it was designed for palmos/winmo palm devices but the cradle fits the pre perfectly Jul 24 23:50:03 I want obex already Jul 24 23:50:03 has anyone managed to use the USB plug on this in host mode? Jul 24 23:50:14 warren: I mean to try this weekend Jul 24 23:50:38 I have a micro A male to full size female cable Jul 24 23:50:47 which with the right driver should do it, I'm told Jul 24 23:50:54 sitting on an airplane with a tiny phone plugged into a full sized keyboard Jul 24 23:50:57 people will look at you funny Jul 24 23:51:06 lol Jul 24 23:51:12 people look at us funny anyways Jul 24 23:51:25 what is that? oh it is not an iphone... not interested Jul 24 23:51:28 plugging in flash drives and mounting them under /media is the killer app Jul 24 23:52:10 My friend with an iphone was playing Katamari Damacy, using the iphone's tilt sensor to control where the katamari rolls, running a PS1 emulator on his phone. Jul 24 23:52:13 that was pretty cool Jul 24 23:52:24 not as cool as the magic 8 ball pre app Jul 24 23:52:32 with shake control Jul 24 23:52:37 URL? Jul 24 23:52:49 lazy :P Jul 24 23:52:54 you are Jul 24 23:53:00 http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/194675-magic-8-ball-v0-1-0-7-24-a.html Jul 24 23:53:03 YES Jul 24 23:53:07 IM DOWNLOADING THAT RIGHT NOW Jul 24 23:53:10 hehe Jul 24 23:53:24 I would buy a Pre just for that are you kidding Jul 24 23:53:33 ipkg -o /var install http://forums.precentral.net/attachments/homebrew-apps/23516d1248466572-magic-8-ball-v0-1-0-7-24-com.orbsix.app.magic8ball_0.1.0_all.ipk Jul 24 23:53:37 :P Jul 24 23:53:48 you can't Jul 24 23:53:53 you have to be logged in :P Jul 24 23:53:55 aw Jul 24 23:53:56 lame Jul 24 23:54:09 I uploaded it elsewhere and used that direct link Jul 24 23:54:15 ooo Jul 24 23:54:20 genius Jul 24 23:54:36 I am gonna show it off to my friends tonight Jul 24 23:54:40 they will want it Jul 24 23:54:53 does the iPhone have a magic 8 ball? Jul 24 23:55:03 im uploading it to my website as we speak Jul 24 23:55:43 Does palm have a linux version of the webos doctor? Jul 24 23:55:50 www.suxx0r.com/com.orbsix.app.magic8ball_0.1.0_all.ipk Jul 24 23:55:50 lol Jul 24 23:55:58 JackieRipper: no, but you can use the standard one if you have the SDK's novacomd running Jul 24 23:56:00 destinal: I have already spoken to PreCentral guys about publishing a real ipkg feed Jul 24 23:56:05 just java -jar it Jul 24 23:56:10 yeah Jul 24 23:56:13 thanks dest Jul 24 23:56:14 what's the redistribution license on the magic8ball app? Jul 24 23:56:25 I have no idea Jul 24 23:56:27 rwhitby: it says gpl Jul 24 23:56:31 I wonder if motion sensor granularity like the iphone is possible on pre Jul 24 23:56:38 JackieRipper: ok, we can add it to preware.org feed then. Jul 24 23:56:38 It is Jul 24 23:56:48 in 1.1 Jul 24 23:56:51 destinal: can you elaborate? Jul 24 23:57:05 how do I lauch it? Jul 24 23:57:18 java -jar webosdoctor.jar Jul 24 23:57:28 well Jul 24 23:57:37 what linux distro are you using Jul 24 23:57:43 anyone want to learn how to add an app to preware.org? anyone with git commit access can do it. Jul 24 23:58:01 I don't have commit access Jul 24 23:58:02 Eguy: gentoo Jul 24 23:58:21 ah damn Jul 24 23:58:27 cant do _ in terminal app Jul 24 23:58:28 Eguy: Ubuntu Jul 24 23:58:36 gentoo? Jul 24 23:58:40 never heard of it Jul 24 23:58:58 Eguy: orange key and , doesn't work? Jul 24 23:59:07 JackieRipper: do you have novacomd running? Jul 24 23:59:12 did anyone add My Notification up there? Jul 24 23:59:19 amazing how long it takes to restart luna Jul 24 23:59:24 it's on there Kaerey Jul 24 23:59:29 Eguy: if you do the work to get magic8ball into preware, you get commit access Jul 24 23:59:32 JackieRipper: if so just java -jar filename Jul 24 23:59:37 cool Jul 24 23:59:42 yes, I have it running Jul 24 23:59:49 Kaerey: are you going to move that app to gitorious.org/webos-applications? Jul 25 00:00:11 rwhitby: explain? Jul 25 00:00:12 hah Jul 25 00:00:19 ~git Jul 25 00:00:19 git and I don't get along Jul 25 00:00:24 i got the 8ball app on mah phone Jul 25 00:00:36 Eguy: it's as easy as writing a file like: http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/preware/blobs/master/apps/prechess/Makefile Jul 25 00:00:53 the source is up on the post if someone with knowledge of committing to git can put it up there. Jul 25 00:00:54 Eguy: got a Ubuntu box? Jul 25 00:01:05 Si senior Jul 25 00:01:14 Kaerey: I meant your notifications app Jul 25 00:01:18 yeah Jul 25 00:01:20 I have never commited to git before Jul 25 00:01:37 there's a zip on my post with the source for easier access Jul 25 00:01:39 moving from gitorious.org/webos-internals to a separate repo under gitorious.org/webos-applications Jul 25 00:01:48 Kaerey: ah, ok. Jul 25 00:02:06 Eguy: git clone the preware repo, and type "make" :-) Jul 25 00:02:16 I can get things from git via the website but using git just hasn't clicked with me yet Jul 25 00:02:45 I will attempt it when i get back home Jul 25 00:02:48 odd, can't delete magic8ball with orange-click Jul 25 00:02:50 I am about to leave now Jul 25 00:03:03 warren: did you install it with ipkg -o /var install whatever.ipk ? Jul 25 00:03:05 warren: what command did you use to install it? Jul 25 00:03:10 you probably installed it to [usr/palm/applications] Jul 25 00:03:19 anyone aware of how to change the appId without writing to appinfo.json? Jul 25 00:03:26 you can only delete apps in [var/usr/palm/applications] Jul 25 00:03:26 the "-o /var" is important Jul 25 00:03:30 oh Jul 25 00:03:50 you should be able to "ipkg remove" then "ipkg -o /var install" to fix Jul 25 00:03:52 I don't think you can PreGame Jul 25 00:04:00 if you want it in /var after all instead of just gone Jul 25 00:04:03 there has to be a bug or something that lets you Jul 25 00:04:17 PreGame: just overwrite appinfo.json ? - it's source code ... Jul 25 00:04:25 It is already contained in the file how could you change it without writing? Jul 25 00:04:34 i would have to overwrite it then reload the app Jul 25 00:04:35 what is the file path to the usb drive again? is it /media/internal ? Jul 25 00:04:41 PreGame: what do you want to achieve? Jul 25 00:04:45 yes sirwill Jul 25 00:05:03 have a different appId than what the file path is and still have it be able to uninstall Jul 25 00:05:05 destinal: hmm, when terminal becomes more mature, other apps could be frontends that wrap it? for example, a different card could be a frontend to ssh where you type your server address, name and password, and upon successful login it uses terminal. Jul 25 00:05:23 see you guys later I am out of here Jul 25 00:06:01 warren: that's possible, but there's a security issue Jul 25 00:06:13 destinal: oh? Jul 25 00:06:31 destinal: other cards can't use the plugin? Jul 25 00:06:34 destinal: yeah, are we going to login? Jul 25 00:06:35 warren: we need to make sure the terminal app prompts for a root password or something because as it is right now a malicious mojo app could embed the terminal plugin and start sending it keystrokes Jul 25 00:06:58 or better yet give the option of login and password or default login name in preferences Jul 25 00:07:07 so you can use a non-root user without su - if you want Jul 25 00:07:55 but otherwise yeah, an app could drive the terminal, even send commands to start up things for you Jul 25 00:08:34 so as long as the app has the root password (ie the user gave it to the app, in theory) than that should work and no security issue Jul 25 00:08:44 if you give an evil app your password, I'm sorry... Jul 25 00:10:10 oh nice, it has native rsync Jul 25 00:11:52 How do you do an indention in the wiki Jul 25 00:17:19 imop45: : Jul 25 00:17:37 * Templarian thinks quotes would of helped there. Jul 25 00:17:44 Ah, ok. Jul 25 00:18:00 hmm, anyone successfully can login to their pre via dropbear sshd directly to the root user? Jul 25 00:18:09 using a ssh keys Jul 25 00:18:17 I can login to my non-root user, but not root Jul 25 00:18:33 yes but you sudo into root so its cool Jul 25 00:18:39 sudo -i Jul 25 00:19:03 imop45: i know Jul 25 00:19:16 imop45: but I want to rsync directly into root so I can sync my /media/internal automatically Jul 25 00:19:45 dropbear seems to work just fine with the pre's built in rsync Jul 25 00:19:48 i'm editting the applying patches page to show that if you did the quilt patch then the setup step *might* aleady be down Jul 25 00:19:59 rsync -e "ssh -p 222" username@IP:/ Jul 25 00:20:04 Hmm, maybe make a sudo command? Jul 25 00:20:13 not sure you can do that with rsync Jul 25 00:20:35 is dropbear built to deny root logins? Jul 25 00:21:32 I'm not sure.. It allows you to login as your user, then sudo right? Jul 25 00:22:09 warren: look at the applying-patches wiki page to see how to do that Jul 25 00:22:43 you need to set a root password (which is not used, but is required) and ssh keys for root. Jul 25 00:22:55 Hmm, question-what if you run quilt push multiple times? Jul 25 00:23:14 imop45: quilt knows the state of your filesystem, and will not push twice Jul 25 00:23:28 rwhitby: I put my ssh key in /home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys Jul 25 00:23:37 (unless you have done something behind it's back, like some people here have been advocating incorrectly) Jul 25 00:23:38 Hmm, well i ran quilt a couple of time and it was ruterning different things Jul 25 00:23:47 warren: did you set a root password? Jul 25 00:23:52 oh Jul 25 00:24:09 warren: not much for following instructions to the letter, hey ;-) Jul 25 00:24:18 that did it Jul 25 00:24:30 opensshd has no such restriction Jul 25 00:24:37 warren: I believe it does Jul 25 00:24:41 Well, i followed te steps, but i did thequilt import for multiple patches. Jul 25 00:25:00 you just never encounter it, because most machines don't have a non-existent, non-locked root password Jul 25 00:25:17 this is freaking sweet Jul 25 00:25:23 rsync into my own phone Jul 25 00:25:53 Am i not suppossed to quilt import multiple things? Jul 25 00:26:08 imop45: you are Jul 25 00:26:25 imop45: where does it say not to? Jul 25 00:26:57 It doesn't, but i ran the quilt push multiple times and it sent back different results a few times Jul 25 00:27:20 imop45: quilt push or quilt import - you're talking about two different things Jul 25 00:27:39 (btw, quilt has good documentation on the web which I suggest anyone using it reads first) Jul 25 00:28:05 Right, but i imported muliple things, and then i pushed multiple times and got multiple results Jul 25 00:28:52 imop45: push pushes a single patch from the series. push -a pushes them all Jul 25 00:29:03 phew... i just got scared that i was doing all the work on tty emulator and not my usb Pre Jul 25 00:29:06 sorry, I thought you were talking about push -a - my mistake. Jul 25 00:29:47 it will not push the same patch twice, but each push only pushes one patch Jul 25 00:29:51 No, not push -a. Ok, so if i just ran quilt push it would push one at a time, so i would have to push multiple times. Cporrect? Jul 25 00:29:58 ok, thanks :) Jul 25 00:30:08 yes, correct. sorry for giving you a bum steer. Jul 25 00:31:36 No, it's fine. Shoulve figured out the -a b/c of pop -a Jul 25 00:31:45 * rwhitby bbl (coaching little league soccer this morning) Jul 25 00:32:17 hmm.. none f the patches applied Jul 25 00:32:44 except one- the email landscape Jul 25 00:35:03 I'm always logging into root. With novacom -t open tty:// it's automatically in root? Jul 25 00:39:08 ok, novacom is unsecure Jul 25 00:39:48 Is a quilt import -a option available Jul 25 00:44:14 destinal: still here? Jul 25 00:44:33 JackieRipper: yup Jul 25 00:44:56 I've got webos doctor running, but it's not seeing my pre Jul 25 00:45:12 JackieRipper: does novaterm work? Jul 25 00:45:53 root@qemux86 Jul 25 00:45:59 hmm Jul 25 00:46:03 heh, looks like I have to kill the emulator Jul 25 00:46:08 oh Jul 25 00:46:09 yeah Jul 25 00:46:11 :P Jul 25 00:46:29 what irc client runs as a card? Jul 25 00:46:31 unable to find device Jul 25 00:46:42 jwm: the one *you* write! Jul 25 00:46:44 :) Jul 25 00:46:48 hehe Jul 25 00:46:54 you guys were talking about something earlier Jul 25 00:47:00 or some terminal app heh Jul 25 00:47:05 jwm: you could use the terminal app Jul 25 00:47:12 ~terminal Jul 25 00:47:14 somebody said terminal was very, very alpha, but can be found at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 25 00:47:18 The topmost patch /opt/src/patches/enable-dev-mode-icon.patch needs to be refreshed first. How do i refresh quilt? Jul 25 00:47:26 ohh, I thought that just was a hello world Jul 25 00:47:48 jwm: nope, that's a really real gui terminal app Jul 25 00:48:16 s/real/alpha/g Jul 25 00:48:16 destinal meant: jwm: nope, that's a alphaly alpha gui terminal app Jul 25 00:49:05 Do I need to be in dev mode to use WebOS Doctor? Jul 25 00:49:11 The keyboard will not rotate with you. Attempting to rotate the keyboard to landscape mode is known to bork a Pre. Jul 25 00:49:14 heheh Jul 25 00:49:22 lol Jul 25 00:50:05 theres a turtorial on webos DR Jul 25 00:50:05 I heard people are having rotating pre screens though Jul 25 00:50:06 heh Jul 25 00:50:14 not in a good way Jul 25 00:54:51 JackieRipper: yes you need dev mode Jul 25 00:54:56 JackieRipper: or recovery mode Jul 25 00:55:30 hah Jul 25 00:55:36 1.1.0 just installed itself Jul 25 00:55:57 yeah, I don't like that Jul 25 00:56:01 I have to figure out where that switch is to prevent me from ever getting an update against my will Jul 25 00:56:15 pres seem to randomly update themselves Jul 25 00:56:17 without asking Jul 25 00:56:22 * rwhitby posts http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1777418 to claim world's first on-device homebrew installer for this team Jul 25 00:56:35 "Some data was damaged, but has been recovered. Always eject your phone from your desktop computer before disconnecting." Jul 25 00:56:42 JackieRipper: I ran it last night and I had Dev mode on. Let me know if you have issue getting EVD because I had issues. Jul 25 00:56:54 I hope webos survives the pre Jul 25 00:56:56 hehe Jul 25 00:57:01 rwhitby: awesome Jul 25 00:57:07 I just turned on dev mode Jul 25 00:57:10 I'll try again Jul 25 00:57:29 the battle for second place rages Jul 25 00:57:41 JackieRipper: You on windows? Jul 25 00:57:59 no Jul 25 00:58:08 whats so special about /var Jul 25 00:58:18 var is so variable Jul 25 00:58:32 rw w/o needing to switch from ro? Jul 25 00:58:33 heh Jul 25 00:58:35 that worked Jul 25 00:58:44 JackieRipper: I was trying to use VirtualBox and it just wont work Jul 25 00:58:46 how many pre people are linux newbies? Jul 25 00:58:58 awesome! Now I don't need to bug my girlfriend to use her windows box Jul 25 00:59:03 * jwm pees on vbox Jul 25 00:59:11 ~vbox Jul 25 00:59:13 * rwhitby bbl Jul 25 00:59:20 JackieRipper: Due to it not recognizing booti usb loader Jul 25 00:59:35 ~virtualbox Jul 25 00:59:36 it works fine for me Jul 25 00:59:52 which flavor of Linux are you using? Jul 25 01:00:04 JackieRipper: Ubuntu Jul 25 01:00:09 ahh Jul 25 01:00:20 JackieRipper: You? Jul 25 01:00:26 gentoo Jul 25 01:00:29 we're gentoo freaks here Jul 25 01:00:31 ricers Jul 25 01:00:45 ha Jul 25 01:00:45 thatdude: VirtualBox works great in ubuntu. Jul 25 01:00:51 has anyone tried this mod? Jul 25 01:00:59 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Change_Carrier_String Jul 25 01:01:01 or do you mean doctor in windows in virtualbox in ubuntu? Jul 25 01:01:12 I've been using gentoo at home exclusively since '02, I think... maybe early '03 Jul 25 01:01:23 destinal: I agree. We are talking about doctors in windows in virtualbox for JackieRipper Jul 25 01:01:24 which is a bad thing IMO Jul 25 01:01:39 thatdude: ah, just run the doctor in Ubuntu instead Jul 25 01:01:45 forget windows Jul 25 01:01:51 thatdude: no, I was talking about running the doctor on a gentoo box Jul 25 01:01:56 I have only been using a pc for a year Jul 25 01:02:00 destinal: I tried that last night and never worked for me, grrr. Jul 25 01:02:10 well like 16 months Jul 25 01:02:10 can someone make me an app icon please? Jul 25 01:02:13 thatdude: do you have novacomd installed and running from the SDK? Jul 25 01:02:25 destinal: I had to get some peace of crap laptop that took eons to run the doctor. Jul 25 01:02:33 PreGame: what type of app? Jul 25 01:02:48 distial: yep Jul 25 01:02:56 thatdude: was your pre in dev mode? Jul 25 01:03:11 yes Jul 25 01:03:14 its my gui app installer for the pre Jul 25 01:03:16 pm? Jul 25 01:03:16 and was virtualbox closed (not running) Jul 25 01:03:22 It was open Jul 25 01:03:35 ok it might have been trying to talk to your emulator. :P Jul 25 01:03:41 sure Jul 25 01:04:01 destinal: lol, true. Jul 25 01:04:12 scary black screen, haha Jul 25 01:06:48 welp its basic and it works Jul 25 01:06:57 manually have to scroll the screen Jul 25 01:07:01 Robi_: best command ever Jul 25 01:07:05 export TERM=vt100 Jul 25 01:08:12 default termtype is "linux" which we don't implement. lots of ansi garbage reults Jul 25 01:08:59 note to self: need to make sure that get set in the environment of the term when spawned Jul 25 01:09:45 bbl Jul 25 01:09:54 hehe Jul 25 01:10:03 you can put that in your ~/.bash Jul 25 01:10:06 .bash_profile Jul 25 01:10:15 it doesn't do anything diff for me Jul 25 01:10:35 has anyone tried this mod? Jul 25 01:10:41 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Change_Carrier_String Jul 25 01:11:03 can I modify the terminal and sell it to make money on the app store Jul 25 01:11:08 that is my plan Jul 25 01:11:15 LOL Jul 25 01:11:26 wait are you serious jwm? Jul 25 01:11:50 yeah heh Jul 25 01:12:02 SERIOUSLY? Jul 25 01:12:10 actually making a terminal was a plan of my team's Jul 25 01:12:12 jwm: you aren't using bash on the phone though.. Jul 25 01:12:23 if you install it.. Jul 25 01:12:34 Problem with a patch: quilt refresh Nothing in patch /opt/src/patches/enable-dev-mode-icon.patch Jul 25 01:12:53 wouldnt about everyone who worked on it be really pissed you if you do that? Jul 25 01:13:08 I want to take it and give it a graphical background Jul 25 01:13:10 font shadow Jul 25 01:13:11 etc Jul 25 01:13:30 Oh hell no jwm, nobody would do that Jul 25 01:14:30 How do i delete a .patch in quilt? Jul 25 01:15:01 well if you do that just make sure to leak it please :D Jul 25 01:15:29 I just noticed two dead pixels on my palm pre screen Jul 25 01:15:30 2786 ? Z Jul 25 01:16:16 thatdude: i have like 18 dead ones Jul 25 01:16:33 PreGame: You not planning an exchange? Jul 25 01:16:47 PreGame: I am returning mine tomorrow. Jul 25 01:17:15 i dont know i already exchanged mine awhile back for discoleration at the bottom Jul 25 01:17:22 Oh no, 2? that sucks Jul 25 01:17:26 i will sometime Jul 25 01:17:38 haha PreGame Jul 25 01:17:43 I exchanged mine 3 times Jul 25 01:17:44 I gave up Jul 25 01:17:48 Ive exchange mine # times Jul 25 01:17:49 each time I got a worse unit Jul 25 01:17:51 3 Jul 25 01:17:53 pres suck so bad Jul 25 01:18:07 Wow.. We both got 3. This ones great Jul 25 01:18:12 I finally got one with 1 dead pixel and 3 stuck Jul 25 01:18:23 instead of 7 pixels andother issues Jul 25 01:18:35 the dead pixel is right in the middle of the screen too Jul 25 01:18:42 possibly a milimeter off Jul 25 01:18:43 Robi_: reboot Jul 25 01:18:58 The final third one is great. It barely wobbles, it doesnt get hot, the batt lasts longer, etc Jul 25 01:19:01 my first one was the best Jul 25 01:19:11 my first one didn't get hot Jul 25 01:19:12 THen why take it back? Jul 25 01:19:15 it had 7 stuck pixels Jul 25 01:19:29 Oh, yeah. Too bad sprint cant fix them Jul 25 01:19:33 because I foolishly thought stuck pixels were the worst thing that could happen Jul 25 01:19:40 I was wrong! Jul 25 01:19:41 heh Jul 25 01:19:53 the next one wobbled horribly and had like 3 dead pixels and 14 stuck Jul 25 01:19:56 tmzt: no need, it just did after the upgrage Jul 25 01:19:58 haha, oh well Jul 25 01:20:00 got super hot Jul 25 01:20:05 did they give u new replacement or refurb Jul 25 01:20:06 that's why I said Jul 25 01:20:10 I hope webos survives the pre Jul 25 01:20:16 I got a referb Jul 25 01:20:24 one was new which was worse and this last one refurb heh Jul 25 01:20:31 I gave up Jul 25 01:20:33 $$786# Jul 25 01:20:33 Robi_: if you get that you need to reboot or the ram the process uses is not free Jul 25 01:20:34 er Jul 25 01:20:37 it's just a developer device anyway Jul 25 01:20:39 ##786# in the dialer Jul 25 01:20:52 Yeah this one is great and its a refurb Jul 25 01:20:52 will show you factory page with when it was originally activated, how many miles on it, etc Jul 25 01:21:02 Oh, awesome Jul 25 01:21:43 when my pre restarts ill see it Jul 25 01:21:57 the 786 was on the palm os too Jul 25 01:22:35 tmzt: root 2786 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? Z Jul 25 01:22:37 interesting Jul 25 01:22:40 its not using any Jul 25 01:23:00 hey jwm while your at could you make an ssh client too? I would gladly pay for it Jul 25 01:23:08 well Jul 25 01:23:13 okay Jul 25 01:23:14 if you have a terminal app you don't need ssh Jul 25 01:23:19 you can use the full openssh Jul 25 01:23:23 or dropbear Jul 25 01:23:25 works great Jul 25 01:23:45 I guess my phone isn't a refurb Jul 25 01:23:48 it says it's not Jul 25 01:23:51 could be lying Jul 25 01:23:53 so I can ssh from my pre, to my openbsd pf remotly over evdo Jul 25 01:23:53 anyone note the diff with 1.1.0 update? Jul 25 01:24:08 should I avoid 1.1.0? Jul 25 01:24:14 go for it Jul 25 01:24:19 heh Jul 25 01:24:24 1.1.0 Jul 25 01:24:26 do it Jul 25 01:24:27 I think I sucessfully ported anyterm to mojo, carraige return doesn't work though Jul 25 01:24:32 I downloaded it but I have 19% battery life since I made one call today Jul 25 01:24:33 Robi-None of my patches are working and i have 1.1 Jul 25 01:24:40 so I have to plug it in to install the update Jul 25 01:25:14 most of my stuff is working you just need to redo all of it Jul 25 01:25:16 does anyone use their pre to make calls? Jul 25 01:25:22 i do. Jul 25 01:25:25 I hate using it as a cell phone Jul 25 01:25:27 jwm: nope Jul 25 01:25:33 Phone calls dont drain as bad Jul 25 01:25:42 jwm: the pre can make phone calls? Jul 25 01:25:45 it gets hot it's hard to hold Jul 25 01:26:00 so what do you say jwm will you make a putty like app for the pre? Jul 25 01:26:04 and it gets static at angles Jul 25 01:26:06 Wow youre phones junk then Jul 25 01:26:11 heh Jul 25 01:26:15 all 3 of them did this Jul 25 01:26:33 the pre is great-if you can find a great one Jul 25 01:26:34 joesmith: ssh (host) Jul 25 01:26:37 don't dare put it on your shoulder and try to talk with it there Jul 25 01:26:43 oh and while your at could you make a winscp like app, I am really digging a gui atm Jul 25 01:26:53 I don't like guis Jul 25 01:27:02 I like high res text interfaces Jul 25 01:27:12 omg.. wth is wrong with the patches Jul 25 01:27:30 Yeah! high res text! with high contrast! Jul 25 01:27:40 ugh another app to remove Jul 25 01:27:40 NFL Mobile Live from Sprint Jul 25 01:27:45 thanks 1.1.0 Jul 25 01:27:51 hehe Jul 25 01:27:55 Robi-thats exactly what i was thinking Jul 25 01:28:12 new rel notes for 1.1.0 Jul 25 01:28:13 http://kb.palm.com/wps/portal/kb/na/pre/p100eww/sprint/solutions/article/50607_en.html Jul 25 01:28:59 I deleted nfl, nascar, and amazon mp3 (buying music how quaint lol) Jul 25 01:29:16 http://kb.palm.com/wps/portal/kb/na/pre/p100eww/sprint/solutions/article/50607_en.html#11' Jul 25 01:29:16 palm update 1.0.4 and 1.1 notes to include security issues Jul 25 01:29:37 What the notes update? look the same Jul 25 01:29:43 what are the chances they made the geekiest phone and put all these sport apps on it Jul 25 01:29:49 sprint really doesn't get it Jul 25 01:29:49 heh Jul 25 01:30:03 if you scroll down they discuss new security issues Jul 25 01:30:12 and they updated 1.0.4 as well for same reason Jul 25 01:30:37 I dont carry 3 flash drives around my neck so I can keep up with sports Jul 25 01:30:40 jwm-if sprint didnt include it then people would complain. Jul 25 01:30:54 When you slide the ringer switch off, a bell icon with a slash is displayed. Previously, the icon was a speaker with a slash. Jul 25 01:30:57 THey need to make a commercial about complaining Jul 25 01:31:01 fancy Jul 25 01:31:54 Resolves an issue preventing media sync from working with latest version of iTunes (8.2.1). Jul 25 01:32:03 3,745,346 million people own sprint phones, 571,000 are complaining about having a blue phone, 645,000 are complaining about not having a blue phone. Jul 25 01:32:35 1,255 accidently left their blue phone in a Taxi Cab :p Jul 25 01:33:10 I want to start using my pre as a flash drive Jul 25 01:33:18 but it's too small of storage capacity hehe Jul 25 01:33:25 I want to apply patches. Jul 25 01:33:49 Robi_: I want the bell back Jul 25 01:33:57 er speaker back Jul 25 01:34:13 I don't associate bells with phones Jul 25 01:34:24 you don't? Jul 25 01:34:32 at&t maybe Jul 25 01:35:04 How come a consumer can buy a 16gb microsd card for like $28 and an 8gb for $15 but for a phone, 16 inner memory costs $50 supossedly? Jul 25 01:35:30 probably power requirements Jul 25 01:35:31 microsd and embedded sd are basically the same I think Jul 25 01:35:48 and putting on their own IC board Jul 25 01:36:12 why do microsd have bga points on them, anyone know? Jul 25 01:36:32 bga points ? Jul 25 01:36:36 well, that's why I think that Jul 25 01:36:40 under the sticker Jul 25 01:36:44 on the ones I had Jul 25 01:36:44 jwm: are all sounds muted with the switch or just the ringer? Jul 25 01:36:54 got a picture? Jul 25 01:36:57 jwm: easy to replace the image.. Jul 25 01:37:07 bpadalino: not really Jul 25 01:37:10 Well, an 8 gb mp3 player costs 199. a 16 gb costs 299. Seriously? You know that mem costs them like 2 dollars Jul 25 01:37:13 bpadalino: maybe I can get one Jul 25 01:37:18 ah Jul 25 01:37:31 bpadalino: they aren't all there though, it's not a square Jul 25 01:37:41 Robi: all Jul 25 01:37:52 it vibrates though Jul 25 01:38:22 I really can't wait to donate my pre to a needy child Jul 25 01:38:40 and get the next better webos phone Jul 25 01:38:44 heh Jul 25 01:38:44 Not all of the sounds are muted! Videos make sounds Jul 25 01:38:55 they do? Jul 25 01:39:36 Music makes sounds also, the alarm clock makes sounds, amazon mp3 previews make sounds, ringtone previews makes sounds Jul 25 01:40:03 bpadalino, i've used your basic idea and used ajaxterm, i have a working implementation of ajaxterm in pre written in mojo Jul 25 01:40:10 The only thing muted is calls, charging sound, camera shutter sound, and messaging sounds. No media Jul 25 01:40:34 neat Jul 25 01:40:42 I can't wait to change all my ringers to something I don't hate Jul 25 01:40:47 I don't like a single ringer on the pre Jul 25 01:40:49 heh Jul 25 01:40:50 jwm-check it out Jul 25 01:41:25 jwm-take a few valuems :) then you'd think everythings great Jul 25 01:41:50 hehe Jul 25 01:41:56 I have vicodin Jul 25 01:42:01 doesn't do anything to me Jul 25 01:42:09 I got 6 teeth pulled 3 weeks ago Jul 25 01:44:54 why do you have to reboot after apps are installed? Jul 25 01:47:05 I vote to remove that from the wiki Jul 25 01:47:29 dont suppose anyone can help me with a patch file and understanding something real quick do they? Jul 25 01:47:30 the luna-send command should be there instead Jul 25 01:47:40 rwhitby: any technical reason? Jul 25 01:51:23 patch file help please? anyone? Jul 25 01:51:59 anybody's pre crash when it needs charged? Jul 25 01:52:03 like < 10% Jul 25 01:52:17 Xandar: what's up? Jul 25 01:52:41 hey guys Jul 25 01:53:01 when editing a patch file (because every character counting patch file for webos1.1 is wrong line wise) Im looking at the @@ whatever...WHAT THE HELL DO THOSE NUMBERS MEAN Jul 25 01:53:10 ie - @@ -52,6 +57,10 @@ Jul 25 01:53:44 I ASSUMED it was line #, lines start, change start line, then end characters or something like that Jul 25 01:53:49 but I dont quite understand how it all works Jul 25 01:53:57 rwhitby: hey, i just saw the terminal release Jul 25 01:54:10 great day for us homebrewers. Jul 25 01:56:21 sooooo any idea? Jul 25 01:57:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diff Jul 25 02:00:10 and there it is! Thank you very much. TIme for some more reading. :D Jul 25 02:00:17 (by the way, VERY hard to find) Jul 25 02:00:39 hehe Jul 25 02:00:41 yeah Jul 25 02:00:52 I hate doing RTFM but I didn't read that url either Jul 25 02:01:06 I've used patch a million times and I still don't know the syntax of diff outputs Jul 25 02:01:09 hehe Jul 25 02:01:14 so I didn't even rtfm Jul 25 02:01:31 well the character counter patch on the wiki is wrong - the lines are jacked up and when trying to patch it tells me the hunks failed Jul 25 02:01:31 SO Jul 25 02:01:40 Im gonna go back in and edit the line ranges Jul 25 02:01:43 which SHOULD fix the issue Jul 25 02:02:10 hehe Jul 25 02:02:18 what are you trying to do? Jul 25 02:03:18 how do you force a pre out of the battery symbol Jul 25 02:03:19 I hate that Jul 25 02:04:42 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Messaging_Mods - character counter patch Jul 25 02:04:44 it doesnt work Jul 25 02:04:48 just returns a lot of hunk errors Jul 25 02:05:15 so I opened up my files, checked the line numbers and ranges and BAM, their off Jul 25 02:05:19 theyre** Jul 25 02:06:14 weird Jul 25 02:06:19 maybe an update changed them Jul 25 02:06:29 it did Jul 25 02:06:38 theres a 1.1 apparent update, but those numbers are off too Jul 25 02:06:48 hehe Jul 25 02:08:04 I'm going to copy the MVC way of coding in mojo Jul 25 02:12:12 rwhitby, you here? or anyone with access to the wiki? Jul 25 02:12:30 arent wikis generally.... community access? Jul 25 02:12:53 i perhaps found an error on the following page: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Enable_Landscape_Viewing_in_Email Jul 25 02:13:48 i editted all the files with the codes provided and it works flawlessly in webOS 1.1 Jul 25 02:14:09 but the page says "Currently does NOT work in 1.1. Typing "wide" at the account listing activates this feature in 1.1, but it is not persistent between application launches. Further work needs to be done to make it persistent and not require a keyword entry. " Jul 25 02:16:07 well cya guys, me and the pre are going to bed to listen to a podcast and browse the forums/wiki Jul 25 02:22:47 hey everyone, im having some big troubles with my pre, anyone got the time to help? Jul 25 02:23:17 are you on your 3rd pre yet? Jul 25 02:23:22 if not just exchange it heh Jul 25 02:23:38 what's the problem? Jul 25 02:23:45 well, after i updated to 1.1 last night, my phone wouldnt reset Jul 25 02:24:00 i tried the partial and the full. Jul 25 02:24:31 it goes through all the motions and then starts up again, but everything is still there...all text messages, apps, everything Jul 25 02:24:39 * Rick__ working on a program. Message me if you need somehting Jul 25 02:24:42 did you remove the battery? Jul 25 02:24:53 and toss the pre against the wall? Jul 25 02:25:22 my phone has been rooted for a while, and i have flashed a couple of times with the os doc, but the doctor doesnt register when i plug it in Jul 25 02:25:47 destinal!! Jul 25 02:25:53 Quantsini: greetings Jul 25 02:26:10 I've successfully ported ajaxterm yo mojo Jul 25 02:26:19 yep, i removed the battery, set up the loader (vol up, plug in usb, then battery) but it still doesnt respond on the program Jul 25 02:26:53 there's some kinks (such as \ is bound as carrage return) but it works well otherwise Jul 25 02:27:57 i took it to a sprint store today and the idiot tried to tell me that the reason why it didnt work was bc he could see the dev mode icon. i tried to tell him that it was off and showed him, that i had only set the icon to visible Jul 25 02:28:44 hehe Jul 25 02:28:47 PreHero: ack, don't freak the mundanes, eh? Jul 25 02:28:57 perhaps doctor before service is the best thing Jul 25 02:29:01 just hopped in Jul 25 02:29:05 i already tried it. Jul 25 02:29:17 I mean take it in, in a stock mode Jul 25 02:29:18 PreHero, what seems to be the problem? Jul 25 02:29:25 i have used it before so i know im doing it right Jul 25 02:29:27 so they don't know you play Jul 25 02:29:41 since nothing we do can damage it that I know of Jul 25 02:29:52 Yeah, you never want to tell (or let sprint know) that anything has been "tampered" with Jul 25 02:29:57 that includes dev mode Jul 25 02:30:04 even though dev mode is built right in to the phone Jul 25 02:30:46 heh, that means hide your terminal icons before you go in too :P Jul 25 02:30:52 enabling/disabling dev mode itself does not void any warranties, but if they way the easy way out, they'll say it does Jul 25 02:31:43 what's wrong with your pre though, hero? Jul 25 02:31:55 after i updated to 1.1 my phone isnt working right. going through putty like normal, it takes my username, then ask for the password, and then it stops responding Jul 25 02:32:09 hehe Jul 25 02:32:52 i didnt tell him, he saw the icon in the menu. i cant change it bc i cant log into my pre to change it lol Jul 25 02:33:08 yeah, if you run into a problem like that Jul 25 02:33:11 i'd just doctor the phone Jul 25 02:33:26 what icon? Jul 25 02:33:32 so i tried to doctor the phone already Jul 25 02:33:46 and if you have specific programs you want on the phone, build them into your doctor tool and you'll have a custom rom Jul 25 02:33:49 the dev is still there in 1.1? Jul 25 02:34:03 tmzt: yeah Jul 25 02:34:09 nice Jul 25 02:34:22 so novacom should be usable Jul 25 02:34:32 hey guys. I went to m.digg.com in the browser and it seems to be frozen... even after closing it and opening it Jul 25 02:34:33 PreHero: do you have data on it? Jul 25 02:34:41 my computer registers when i plug the usb in, but the doctor program doesnt...yes, the dev icon stayed...i used the original instructions to change visible to "true" Jul 25 02:34:41 is there some way I can kill the process? Jul 25 02:34:58 only luna I would guess Jul 25 02:35:05 hmm Jul 25 02:35:09 don't we have sysrq? Jul 25 02:35:17 if so, sysrq-k Jul 25 02:35:23 nope, i can choose usb mode and run through the standard media folders so i dont have anything i need on it anymore. Jul 25 02:35:29 well, not if luna is root Jul 25 02:35:35 hero, you can't ssh into it at all? Jul 25 02:36:34 nope, even setting the dev on, the nova python wont connect, and normal ssh ask for username, then password, then freezes and i get a putty error Jul 25 02:36:37 if it's worth it use sdk novacom and "root" again Jul 25 02:36:45 ah Jul 25 02:37:00 what about cygwin? Jul 25 02:37:08 can you ssh -v ? Jul 25 02:37:16 hehe Jul 25 02:37:43 i dont know how to do that. i have just always used the normal ssh and sftp with winscp. Jul 25 02:38:35 normal ssh? Jul 25 02:38:37 hehe Jul 25 02:38:56 normal vs the -v? lol Jul 25 02:41:22 huh? Jul 25 02:41:28 it's okay Jul 25 02:41:35 if you don't have cygwin Jul 25 02:41:41 -v is for verbose Jul 25 02:42:10 so currently, i cant ssh in or even go through original rooting process, and the phone wont perform reset function through phone menu Jul 25 02:42:14 actually winscp should work Jul 25 02:42:37 it provides the debug output in the window whejn you connect I believe Jul 25 02:42:39 hey guys, any idea if the character counter patch works for 1.1 Jul 25 02:43:00 ok, weird, i just got a pop up for the updater saying "the system update 0 was successfully installed. your new software is available immediately" Jul 25 02:43:11 what is update 0? Jul 25 02:43:22 does mojo use mootools? Jul 25 02:43:44 Decimation: someone in here is working on it Jul 25 02:43:48 right now hehe Jul 25 02:44:11 well, winscp did just log in! it wouldnt last night, it would time out Jul 25 02:45:40 jwm: hah, thanks. Jul 25 02:45:57 hmm...i am still wary of all the quarks im having. after i went to the sprint store earlier, my phone ended up deactivated and had to go right back in. so they set it back, but i dont have internet Jul 25 02:46:05 by the way, if anyone in here has put in work for the pre terminal, i thank you sosososo much Jul 25 02:46:09 i can make phone calls and text, but no internet Jul 25 02:46:45 wow, there were people that didn't know the pre was linux until they saw the terminal screeshot on precentral Jul 25 02:46:47 my ev icon next to the signal bars is missing Jul 25 02:47:30 im kind of confused bc text messages use the same data signal as evdo right? Jul 25 02:47:45 destinal: isn't it webos? :) Jul 25 02:47:46 destinal: lol, you'd be surpirsed how uninformed people are. Jul 25 02:47:57 heh Jul 25 02:48:12 well, i just set up a bunch of stuff on my pre Jul 25 02:48:15 time to play some halo 3 :) Jul 25 02:48:31 Decimation: tried the terminal yet Jul 25 02:48:32 ? Jul 25 02:48:38 oh you're off to play, nm :) Jul 25 02:48:39 jwm: you need to reboot after plugin installations, in case it's an upgrade rather than an initial install. Jul 25 02:48:39 destinal: yes Jul 25 02:48:53 great application Jul 25 02:49:02 rwhitby: nah Jul 25 02:49:04 the building block for all great things to come actually :) Jul 25 02:49:04 no reboots Jul 25 02:49:06 this is linux! Jul 25 02:49:13 Decimation: needs some work, but yeah, it's a big step Jul 25 02:49:15 :) Jul 25 02:49:40 destinal: if i could use brackets, that'd be cool Jul 25 02:49:57 unless im missing something, you cant input {}'s to the pre terminal Jul 25 02:50:03 Decimation: yeah we need more keys Jul 25 02:50:04 jwm: BTW, the licensing on the terminal is GPL, so you're free to see it on the app store, but anyone else can sell it for a lower price than you. Jul 25 02:50:26 rwhitby: we're actually making a game :) Jul 25 02:50:39 what is the difference between winscp logging into a pre and the way putty does it? they are both wifi, but putty isnt working but the other is? Jul 25 02:51:00 jwm: cool. I have a lot of ideas actually about redoing this whole thing Jul 25 02:51:15 if I were to do a terminal I'd use ape Jul 25 02:51:17 hey guys, i was wondering, what is the status on like, 3d games being made for the pre Jul 25 02:51:18 not mojo Jul 25 02:51:20 but that is me Jul 25 02:51:25 is it possible with current documentation? Jul 25 02:51:31 is it safe to update to 1.1.0 I'm sure everyone has already asked, but I thought it was in the topic last time. Jul 25 02:51:39 yes demort. Jul 25 02:51:48 thanks Jul 25 02:51:59 except for PreHero Jul 25 02:52:03 jwm: I want to abstract the plugin away, as an "adapter" like palm does Jul 25 02:52:03 everyone else can update to 1.1 Jul 25 02:52:17 and have it talk to a more conventional monolithic app Jul 25 02:52:29 I don't want to learn mojo Jul 25 02:52:31 hehe Jul 25 02:52:47 mojo is basically javascript Jul 25 02:53:03 jwm: mojo will always be key if you want to make pre apps, my basic rule is everything you can do in mojo that makes sense should be in mojo Jul 25 02:53:20 I want to make code that runs on any smartphone Jul 25 02:53:25 so I just want to code 100% for webkit Jul 25 02:53:41 and have very little event handling code be smartphone specific Jul 25 02:53:46 jwm: then make a browser app. Jul 25 02:53:47 the rest I'll just use AJAX Jul 25 02:53:58 how much mojo is api and how much is framework? Jul 25 02:54:16 you guys seen phonegap? Jul 25 02:54:20 pretty cool project Jul 25 02:54:58 there is a bijection from programmming in html/css/js to mojo/js Jul 25 02:55:17 basically, programming mojo is exactly like building a web app Jul 25 02:56:00 there's just nifty div classes you can use to make buttons, lists, etc, but the core is html Jul 25 02:56:24 course, for it todo anything, you need to use javascript Jul 25 02:56:38 by api I mean required for rpcc Jul 25 02:56:41 rpc Jul 25 02:57:06 jwm: even in linux, if you replace a shared library binary to need to reboot Jul 25 02:57:14 but you can use your own html, without mojo? Jul 25 02:57:25 tmzt: yeah Jul 25 02:57:28 rwhitby: ? Jul 25 02:57:39 restart services maybe Jul 25 02:57:46 tmzt: you can use tags with onClick js events Jul 25 02:57:55 instead of a mojo button Jul 25 02:57:58 tmzt: yeah, ok, restart anything which uses that shared library Jul 25 02:58:12 since I don't have a Pre, I'm used to emulator reboot times Jul 25 02:58:20 hehe Jul 25 02:58:33 yeah, you don't even have to restart now when you change the kernel Jul 25 02:58:40 is there anyone here looking to make a google voice app? Jul 25 02:58:41 there is a kernel load function :) Jul 25 02:59:07 or modify the phone app so when you click the call button, it will allow the choice to call out from your number or google voice number **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jul 25 02:59:57 2009