**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 26 02:59:56 2009 Jul 26 03:01:15 yes Jul 26 03:01:38 dont tell me i watch it much later Jul 26 03:01:53 A3 was unbelievable Jul 26 03:01:56 Q3* Jul 26 03:02:11 * rwhitby bbl Jul 26 03:05:01 I want this for webOS: http://www.softpauer.com/f1app/index.html Jul 26 03:06:27 here is a better view http://www.iappphone.com/apps/319505319/f1tm-timing-app-2009-championship-pass/ Jul 26 03:10:40 hey rick you still here Jul 26 03:12:41 Thanks for the Terminal! It is extremely beneficial/helpful and has made the world a better place! Jul 26 03:15:39 and filecoaster makes it unbelievably easy to install ipk's Jul 26 03:16:54 my novacom service isnt running how can i start it up? Jul 26 03:17:29 start>run> services.msc Jul 26 03:24:57 I'm still waiting to see if someone has figured out how to take a picture from the command line Jul 26 03:30:52 To enable crond, it says I need to edit mod-crond but theres nothing there to edit. Am I suppose to create my own file? Jul 26 03:33:49 Guess no one is here Jul 26 03:35:13 heh Jul 26 03:36:06 has anyone developed a widget, like a screenlet or gDesklet, for the main screen? Jul 26 03:36:36 i wonder how hard it would be to take the clock from the lock screen and put it on the "desktop" Jul 26 03:37:09 make it semi opaque :) Jul 26 03:37:22 yeah, that'd be cool Jul 26 03:42:33 destinal: you there? Jul 26 03:43:33 what would be cool would be to mod the lock screen. Jul 26 03:43:48 put temp/wx info on it. Jul 26 03:44:45 WillJitsu: yes Jul 26 03:46:08 destinal: still no luck with underscores in Terminal. has it been updated on the feed? Jul 26 03:46:17 Rick_, what's temp/wx info? Jul 26 03:46:24 destinal: I've got version 0.1.1 Jul 26 03:47:18 you need to update to 0.1.2 Jul 26 03:48:35 destinal: if I do a "ipkg -o /var list" it only shows version 0.1.1 of terminal Jul 26 03:49:28 org.webosinternals.terminal - 0.1.1 - Terminal Jul 26 03:49:49 I do see this though: x-webosinternals-termplugin - 0.1.2 - Terminal Service Plugin Jul 26 03:50:09 but I've done "ipkg -o /var update ; ipkg -o /var upgrade" and it says there is nothing to do Jul 26 03:55:46 anyone around? Jul 26 03:56:36 james_ mod the lock screen to show the temperature and weather at your location in additon to the time. Jul 26 03:56:44 sys/devices/platform/lcd-controller/ctrl_start this location keeps rebooting my pre when trying to rsync the whole device to a folder for backup Jul 26 03:56:54 yeah that would be cool Jul 26 03:57:06 Xsecrets yes Jul 26 03:57:12 StoneRyno exclude it. Jul 26 03:57:32 I don't think that is an actual file StoneRyno I think it's a control point. Jul 26 03:57:33 Was wondering if there was anyone who could help me figure out why my dropbear doesn't start on boot. Jul 26 03:57:40 that's what i was thinking i just wasn't sure if it was a big deal or not Jul 26 03:57:51 Xsecrets did you run the optware script from the next steps on the wiki? Jul 26 03:58:15 well yes I did, but only after I had followed most of the steps from the previous instructions. Jul 26 03:58:25 ok Jul 26 03:58:44 Everything worked till I reboot then no more ssh same when I did the origional instructions and the optware script. Jul 26 03:59:25 where are the init scripts on the pre's version of linux? Jul 26 03:59:47 I have a script in event.d, but I'm not sure if that's the init or not. Jul 26 03:59:56 in /etec/event.d Jul 26 04:00:02 and dropbear doesn't seem to be getting started on boot for whatever reason. Jul 26 04:00:02 etc Jul 26 04:00:13 cat etc/event.d Jul 26 04:00:23 hmmm so I have that script I wonder why it doesn't start on boot. Jul 26 04:00:39 wait... no sorry Jul 26 04:00:43 event.d is a dir Jul 26 04:00:52 can you ls /etc/event.d Jul 26 04:01:01 is there an optware-dropbear script in it? Jul 26 04:01:26 yeah and I have the optware-dropbear file in there. Jul 26 04:01:41 ok Jul 26 04:02:14 when you ran the script, did it say that the dropbear start script already exists, would you like to replace it? Jul 26 04:02:25 and if so what did yo say? Jul 26 04:02:39 can you run those scripts like you do in linux /etc/event.d/optware-dropbear start or something? Jul 26 04:02:54 yes Jul 26 04:02:59 no need for start Jul 26 04:03:14 but what we probably want to do is look at it. Jul 26 04:03:15 it did not ask me if I wanted to replace it it just said dropbear found and it's at the newest version. Jul 26 04:03:22 ok Jul 26 04:03:32 are you attached to your pre now? Jul 26 04:03:47 yes Jul 26 04:03:55 are these scripts supposed to be executable? Jul 26 04:04:01 ok, let's replace the dropbear script with the current version. Jul 26 04:04:29 ok Jul 26 04:04:30 rm /etc/event.d/optware-dropbear Jul 26 04:04:41 cd /etc/event.d Jul 26 04:04:47 don't I need to mount rw first? Jul 26 04:04:55 yep Jul 26 04:04:58 sorry Jul 26 04:05:09 do you know that command off the top of your head? Jul 26 04:05:15 reading Jul 26 04:05:21 oh to mount Jul 26 04:05:45 found it Jul 26 04:05:51 mount -o remount,rw / Jul 26 04:06:01 mount -o / mount -o rw,remoun Jul 26 04:06:18 what you said Jul 26 04:06:22 not what I type Jul 26 04:06:25 ok Jul 26 04:06:33 then rm it Jul 26 04:07:12 rm /etc/event.d/optware-dropbear Jul 26 04:07:23 cd /etc/event.d Jul 26 04:07:27 is this the proper place to get the latest? Jul 26 04:07:30 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/raw/master/etc/event.d/optware-dropbear Jul 26 04:07:32 wget http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/raw/master/etc/event.d/optware-dropbear Jul 26 04:07:38 yes Jul 26 04:08:36 do these scripts have to be executable to get run on boot? Jul 26 04:10:45 I see that most of them are -rwxr-xr-x but my optware-dropbear is -rw-r--r-- Jul 26 04:11:38 destinal: have you added Terminal 0.1.2 to the preware feed? Jul 26 04:12:13 WillJitsu: yup was added last night Jul 26 04:12:19 I updated from it Jul 26 04:12:34 others have reported success as well Jul 26 04:12:42 eh destinal? Jul 26 04:12:44 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all/org.webosinternals.terminal_0.1.1_all.ipk Jul 26 04:13:18 Eguy: ok, but it *was* there Jul 26 04:13:24 LO Jul 26 04:13:27 :P* Jul 26 04:13:28 destinal: man I'm doing "ipkg -o /var update" and "ipkg -o /var list" shows org.webosinternals.terminal - 0.1.1 - Terminal Jul 26 04:13:29 oh termlib Jul 26 04:13:31 not terminal Jul 26 04:13:33 hi guyss. Jul 26 04:13:38 Xsecrets you might try making it executable Jul 26 04:13:58 WillJitsu - but is there a 0.1.2 terminal plugin or soemthing Jul 26 04:14:11 Massacre: yes and I have that Jul 26 04:14:15 WillJitsu: sorry, the plugin is updated, which is the core of the app Jul 26 04:14:17 that's what I meant Jul 26 04:14:27 ok, well when I run terminal, I still can't type underscores Jul 26 04:14:28 sorry Jul 26 04:14:38 am I supposed to reboot to load the new plugin? Jul 26 04:14:39 try holding orange Jul 26 04:14:45 I did hold orange Jul 26 04:14:46 rather than pushing it, I think it's a bug Jul 26 04:14:56 did you reboot also? Jul 26 04:15:03 I thought I did, but let me try Jul 26 04:15:22 we should have a help, about that shows app and lib version Jul 26 04:15:31 * destinal adds it to his list Jul 26 04:16:16 we're actually going to sync the version numbers from here on out to eliminate confusion, the mojo side is small enough that it doesn't hurt to update even if we didn't make changes to that side Jul 26 04:16:56 cool Jul 26 04:16:58 weird I can type underscores fine Jul 26 04:17:21 and pipe is orange and period :) Jul 26 04:17:35 yea! pipe! Jul 26 04:18:41 any updates on a GUI installer for the pre? Jul 26 04:18:41 ok got some stupid questions. where is the optware stuff supposed to install? Jul 26 04:18:55 sweet it works now... just had to reboot i guess Jul 26 04:19:23 WillJitsu: the browser doesn't like to release plugins, there maybe a way to force it but not that I know of yet Jul 26 04:19:49 Xsecrets: /opt/ Jul 26 04:20:22 WillJitsu: so the shared library is dynamically linked and loaded into Luna which is why a reboot (or just restart Luna) is required Jul 26 04:20:32 why did my name change to massacre? Jul 26 04:20:32 destinal: gotcha Jul 26 04:21:13 what is the restart luna command again destinal? Jul 26 04:21:14 Decimation: could have been your IRC client if you had a duplicate you signed in from a disconnect / reconnect Jul 26 04:21:53 Eguy: initctl stop LunaSysMgr; initctl start LunaSysMgr Jul 26 04:22:03 or just pkill and let upstart bring it back Jul 26 04:22:35 that's what I always do Jul 26 04:22:43 short to type. pkill LunaSysMgr Jul 26 04:22:43 that's awesome, I didn't know after pkill it restarts Jul 26 04:22:54 I'll do that next time Jul 26 04:23:32 If you're interested in Luna internals, you can see its stderr by initctl stop LunaSysMgr; LunaSysMgr (on an ssh connection for instance) Jul 26 04:23:48 instead of telling upstart to run it, you run it in the foreground on your console Jul 26 04:24:22 then you can see everything it logs while running, in real time Jul 26 04:25:05 it's good for debugging plugins Jul 26 04:25:58 I think they need Terminal in the Sprint Pre commercial :P Jul 26 04:30:32 Rick_: thanks for your help I got it. Jul 26 04:31:10 good. Jul 26 04:31:33 Is JackieRipper around tonight? Jul 26 04:31:41 hiya Rick_ Jul 26 04:32:10 Jackie why would Xsecrets's optware-dropbear script in event.d not have been executable after running the setup script? Jul 26 04:32:30 unsure Jul 26 04:32:35 me too Jul 26 04:32:40 was it updated in the repo today? Jul 26 04:32:41 but it was, and making it so fixed his problem Jul 26 04:32:57 I wiped my phone and ran the script last night, and it worked perfectly for me Jul 26 04:33:24 mine is not executable Jul 26 04:33:27 weird Jul 26 04:33:49 it ought to be right? Jul 26 04:33:51 I don't think they have to be executable. Jul 26 04:33:56 everything ELSE in event.d is. Jul 26 04:34:06 then Xsecrets what did you change? Jul 26 04:34:10 if not that... Jul 26 04:34:39 The problem ended up being that for whatever reason all my opt stuff was going to /var/opt and the script was trying to run from /opt so I just deleted the empty /opt and made it a symlink to /var/opt Jul 26 04:34:47 actually, that's not true Jul 26 04:35:18 well not everything in there is, but yes most of them are. Jul 26 04:36:32 Rick_ CustomizationService, MessagingRouter, PmNetConfigManager, PmWanDaemon, TelephonyInterfaceLayer, audiod, dnsmasq, documentserver, fileindexer, hidd, java-serviceboot, logd, luna-prefs-service, memchute, minicore2, modempower, officeserver, optware-dropbear, ossinfo, pmsyslogd, powerd, prelease, rdxd, storaged, uploadd Jul 26 04:36:40 all not executable Jul 26 04:37:11 Xsecrets: did you run the bootstrap script, or install manually? Jul 26 04:37:29 filecoaster is so great Jul 26 04:37:36 major props to pregame Jul 26 04:38:17 JackieRipper: manual before the bootstrap came out then tried to see if the bootstrap would fix it, but it didn't. Jul 26 04:38:48 one of the missing steps... mount -o loop /var/opt /opt Jul 26 04:39:01 and updating /etc/fstab Jul 26 04:40:00 JackieRipper: ok so do I need to do that or will my symlink work just as well? Jul 26 04:40:12 I'm really not sure Jul 26 04:40:46 I would check your /etc/fstab... if you go with the symlink, remove the line from there, if it currently exists Jul 26 04:41:11 that is, if you're not planning to mount -o bind, remove the line form /etc/fstab Jul 26 04:42:30 Rick_ I didn't realise you made the scicalc... I love it Jul 26 04:44:01 ok that's really strange the line does exist, but it wasn't working Jul 26 04:46:24 Xsecrets: easy thing to try: rm /opt ; mkdir /opt ; mount /opt Jul 26 04:49:24 JackieRipper: what's the line in /etc/fstab supposed to look like? Jul 26 04:49:36 I think that's what might be messed up. Jul 26 04:50:02 Xsecrets: /var/opt /opt bind defaults,bind 0 0 Jul 26 04:50:37 ok that's what I have, but when I try to do mount /opt I get mount: mounting /var/opt on /opt failed: No such device Jul 26 04:50:53 however when I do mount -o loop /var/opt /opt it works. Jul 26 04:50:55 ls -d /var/opt Jul 26 04:51:19 actually, skip that Jul 26 04:51:37 hi, in http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/commit/e358d841d2fc6f0d255ad4890014f7f2cec3674e the line was changed from: Jul 26 04:51:49 can you pastebin your fstab ? Jul 26 04:52:11 termPlugin.height = 8000; to which gives 1000 lines scroll back @ 8 pixel-heght font, to termPlugin.height = normal_height; Jul 26 04:52:39 which only gives 56 lines, was there a reason for that? Jul 26 04:53:49 http://pastebin.com/d225270cd Jul 26 04:54:04 or was it not understood, as such it was changed? Jul 26 04:54:07 you have a space after the comma Jul 26 04:54:18 that's causing the error Jul 26 04:55:22 ugh Jul 26 04:55:27 up that fixed it. Jul 26 04:55:40 cool Jul 26 05:00:35 so i ran this: Jul 26 05:00:40 rsync -a -v --exclude-from=exclude.txt / /media/internal/PreBackup/ Jul 26 05:01:21 that file has two lines for two direcrtories to exclude but for some reason isn't excluding the 2nd one Jul 26 05:02:21 do i have the syntax in the command line correct? Jul 26 05:02:46 the syntax looks right Jul 26 05:02:56 what are the lines in the exclude file? Jul 26 05:04:38 Line 1 is /media/internal/PreBackup/ and line 2 is /sys/devices/platform/lcd-controller/ctrl_start/ Jul 26 05:06:12 the 2nd path reboots the pre which is why i want to exclude it and the 1st cause rsync duplicated the backup forlder which is redundant Jul 26 05:06:15 ls: /sys/devices/platform/lcd-controller/ctrl_start/: Not a directory Jul 26 05:06:36 take off the trailing slash Jul 26 05:07:06 oh so put it as this in the txt /sys/devices/platform/lcd-controller/ctrl_start Jul 26 05:07:12 yes Jul 26 05:08:06 anyone know how to create .pcm files? Jul 26 05:10:52 thanks much for the help i hope this works as i have been at it all evening as this for a backup in the even i need to fix if i mess anything up Jul 26 05:13:01 Rick__: pretty close to having a C# app here to run the terminal Jul 26 05:13:06 found a vt100 implementation, etc Jul 26 05:13:14 just wiring up the novacom depacketizer Jul 26 05:13:30 and relearning how C# works :) Jul 26 05:19:57 geist: cool Jul 26 05:21:29 hey pregame :) Jul 26 05:21:52 geist: do you mean a dbus to novacom adapter? Jul 26 05:22:05 no, a direct gui app that just gets a terminal Jul 26 05:22:19 hi Jul 26 05:23:03 geist: a direct GUI app in webOS, or an attached PC? Jul 26 05:23:13 PC, rick was asking for it a while ago Jul 26 05:23:23 destinal: i just changed back term to 1000 (unless there was a reason why it was changed?) Jul 26 05:23:26 and since it's a deficiency in my novacomd stuff, I felt a little responsible :) Jul 26 05:23:36 is it just me or does viewing actual threads in http://m.forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/ not work on the pre Jul 26 05:24:00 nope, doesnt work pregame Jul 26 05:24:02 The mmobile forums work for me Jul 26 05:24:10 yea they work on the pc Jul 26 05:24:10 when i click a homebrew thread Jul 26 05:24:12 it doesnt load Jul 26 05:24:12 but not the pre Jul 26 05:24:31 Zuchmir2: check the commits from today, mrvc fixed some issues relating to stty becoming absurdly high in row count Jul 26 05:24:36 and some scrolling issues Jul 26 05:24:40 I could swear it worked for me on my Pre because I used your app to install Jul 26 05:24:49 and got the link Jul 26 05:25:08 Oh wait that was the full version Jul 26 05:25:48 geist: can you comment on valid tellbootie commands, or do we have to go digging? :) Jul 26 05:25:58 forums are very slow atm Jul 26 05:26:30 hmm? Jul 26 05:26:36 what d you want to know? Jul 26 05:26:50 geist: like bootie apparently has some kind of slave disk mode, no idea how to access it. Jul 26 05:26:51 ~precentral Jul 26 05:27:07 destinal: it doesn't actually. release mode booties have that stripped out Jul 26 05:27:21 geist: ah, so no "OBEY" for us Jul 26 05:27:24 :) Jul 26 05:27:28 valid tellbootie commands: shutdown, reboot, recover, panic Jul 26 05:27:51 PreGame: I just loaded a thread using that link on my pre Jul 26 05:27:51 it's just a string that's written in an always on area of the cpu that bootie picks out when it reboots Jul 26 05:28:02 geist: the OBEY picture was still in the filesystem you see, was very amusing Jul 26 05:28:09 yep, i left that in Jul 26 05:28:19 destinal: that's fixed, and i didn't touch that Jul 26 05:28:21 is that a custom FS btw? Jul 26 05:28:24 very basic Jul 26 05:28:37 hrm? which fs? Jul 26 05:28:42 the one with the pictures on it Jul 26 05:28:47 you mean partition 1? Jul 26 05:28:48 filenames, offsets, etc Jul 26 05:28:55 yeah Jul 26 05:29:06 yeah, we call that the nvram section Jul 26 05:29:11 or is calling it a filesystem a little grandiose? :) Jul 26 05:29:12 it's just a table of contents with some bits in it Jul 26 05:29:27 nothing grandiose Jul 26 05:29:46 geist: yeah, was easy to figure out the format, and then the obey, which was interesting, sad that the mode is gone Jul 26 05:29:51 but be very careful when mucking around it Jul 26 05:30:01 right, it could actually brick the device, yes? Jul 26 05:30:06 yes Jul 26 05:30:13 well, sort of Jul 26 05:30:23 well fail to load bootie properly anyway Jul 26 05:30:31 actually no. bootie lives somewhere else Jul 26 05:30:36 whats the link to the wiki place where it has like Jul 26 05:30:43 there is just some important per device info in there Jul 26 05:30:50 right, I noticed the id, tokens, etc Jul 26 05:30:52 the brainstorm idea of how the gui installer for the pre will look Jul 26 05:30:55 if you nuke it it sort of loses its brains Jul 26 05:31:06 which is why i store 2 copies of everything, crc it, etc Jul 26 05:31:38 but thankfully a pre is actually not brickable at all. worst case scenario you can use the omap loader to get bootie back on it Jul 26 05:31:51 *nods* good precaution.. if we do trash it we can still have bootie load us a kernel, right? (no need for omap) Jul 26 05:31:51 but if you lose that token info, it doesn't act right Jul 26 05:32:20 yeah Jul 26 05:32:36 and i'm sure folks have figured out that bootie doesn't even need to reside in flash Jul 26 05:33:18 geist - just got back. You found some vt100 code and hooked it up!?? Jul 26 05:33:30 yeah, wiring up the depacketizer now Jul 26 05:33:34 geist: I know people were loading kernels over usb but I thought that was just talking in bootie's protocol Jul 26 05:33:49 you been told that you are kind and generous and a nice guy lately? Jul 26 05:33:56 destinal: yeah, there is a lower level protocol too, one that beagleboard owners are probably aware of Jul 26 05:34:10 one you can use to load bootie in the first place Jul 26 05:34:28 that's how we take a completely blank device on the assembly line and get something into it Jul 26 05:34:32 cool, sounds like a solid design Jul 26 05:34:39 yeah, TI makes good cpus Jul 26 05:35:31 is there a novaterm for 64bit? Jul 26 05:35:55 I'm a little afraid to go digging around with the omap tools and there's a lot to dig into without that, but it would probably be good for us to figure out a total failsafe recovery so we don't have to bother palm / sprint if we *do* manage the amazing feat of bricking a pre. Jul 26 05:36:21 yeah, good idea Jul 26 05:36:33 which is not trivial to do... they've got it pretty safe. The design is robust. Jul 26 05:36:54 but it's relatively nice to recover. If you just take everything prior on the flash to p2 and put it back bit for bit you'll be fine Jul 26 05:37:06 or say, the first 8MB Jul 26 05:37:28 since the second partition starts around 4.5MB into flash Jul 26 05:37:45 *nods* Jul 26 05:37:51 Zuchmir2: 64bit what? Jul 26 05:37:53 linux? Jul 26 05:38:13 I think all the sdk stuff should work fine under ia32libs in debian but I haven't tried it. Jul 26 05:38:18 64bit linux Jul 26 05:38:34 ubuntu 64bit Jul 26 05:38:47 ie we have 32 bit binaries but a 64 bit linux should run them fine with the right 32 bit .so's Jul 26 05:38:50 I dont think it works, the low level usb interface i think is not backwards compatible Jul 26 05:39:09 i meant to look at that the other day Jul 26 05:40:12 anyhoo, back to this. might have something working in the next 30 minutes or so Jul 26 05:40:20 novacom looks to be a great protocol, too bad we're not doing more with it, IMO Jul 26 05:40:39 geist -- thank you so much. Jul 26 05:40:42 same within palm, really. I had more grand plans for it, but I have a load of other stuff to do nowadays Jul 26 05:42:31 when trying "dpkg -i palm-novacom_0.3-svn177284-hud9_i386.deb" i get: package architecture (i386) does not match system (amd64) Jul 26 05:43:18 hrm. dunno. i'll have to talk to whoever puts that together Jul 26 05:43:33 but like i said, i think it wont work anyway. i need to light a fire under who is responsible for that, probably Jul 26 05:43:51 ok, thx Jul 26 05:43:53 since we dont do amd64 linux around palm, i think it is mostly ignored Jul 26 05:44:44 i have to run an 32-bit ubuntu in VM of 64-bit for palm-dev Jul 26 05:45:09 ... and novaterm keeps getting thrown out Jul 26 05:45:16 yep Jul 26 05:45:28 ... i suspect vm/host is rescanning USB line... etc Jul 26 05:45:49 you mean it's unstable? Jul 26 05:46:04 yeah, it keeps jumping out Jul 26 05:46:12 oh hrm, shouldn't do that Jul 26 05:46:22 but running stuff under vmware for usb is always problematic Jul 26 05:46:29 but i gotta focus on this right now. sorry Jul 26 05:46:34 Zuchmir2: usb in emulators is not always especially accurate in my experience Jul 26 05:46:35 * geist closes the window for a bit Jul 26 05:46:39 if i could connect to the host OS it would prob. be more stable Jul 26 05:47:05 yeah, that's why i was hoping for 64bit version Jul 26 05:47:18 Zuchmir2: have you tried running the binaries manually? Jul 26 05:47:25 (which probly simply has to be compiled on an 64bit system) Jul 26 05:47:37 no, i can copy them and see Jul 26 05:47:48 Zuchmir2: you can pull them out of the .deb easy Jul 26 05:49:41 Zuchmir2: mkdir palm-sdk; cd palm-sdk; ar x ../palm_mojo_sdk-Ubuntu-1.1.0-sdk62-hud25_i386.deb; tar xvzf data.tar.gz Jul 26 05:50:11 but actually you need novacom deb, one sec Jul 26 05:50:55 mkdir palm-novacom; cd palm-novacom; ar x ../palm-novacom_0.3-svn177284-hud9_i386.deb; tar xvzf data.tar.gz Jul 26 05:51:34 then run: opt/Palm/novacom/novacomd Jul 26 05:53:24 Zuchmir2: but you'll need 32-bit versions of libpthread.so.0, libusb-0.1.so.4, and libc.so.6 and either a chroot environment or Debian ia32-libs Jul 26 05:53:24 i guess that was supposed to have an '&' at the end of that Jul 26 05:53:29 http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/534 Jul 26 05:53:32 for the libs Jul 26 05:53:49 ... and yes, that did work! thanks Jul 26 05:54:10 Zuchmir2: I'm guessing your distro comes with ia32-libs for 32-bit compatibility? Jul 26 05:54:49 now that novacomd is running you should be able to run novaterm, and the rest. opt/Palm/novacom/novaterm Jul 26 05:55:09 Zuchmir2 - document it... pretty please? Jul 26 05:55:20 actually not, i had to do apt-get install ia32-libs Jul 26 05:55:27 ah, cool Jul 26 05:55:45 Zuchmir2: so does novaterm run for you now? Jul 26 05:55:58 yes, i it's working Jul 26 05:56:13 congratulations destinal and Zuchmir2 !!! Jul 26 05:56:23 :) Jul 26 05:56:35 feed that back to geist when he comes back..... and let's put it on the wiki? Jul 26 05:58:09 btw, 105K page views on the new wiki to date. 35K since yesterday, 2200 views of the terminal page. :-) Jul 26 05:58:30 i'm not very good at docs, but will try something simple Jul 26 05:58:37 impressive numbers! Jul 26 05:58:45 I'm blown away by them. Jul 26 05:59:13 Rick__: sounds like the front page mention on precentral helped a bit Jul 26 05:59:28 * destinal cheers. Jul 26 05:59:50 hey Rick__, can you upgrade my wiki account now? Jul 26 06:00:23 ya it's tomorrow already isn't it Jul 26 06:00:45 I once had a day when we ran over those numbers, and blew our bandwidth cap at Baen's Universe sf magazine, but we had to post a hugo award winning Cory Doctorow story for free and be linked off the front page of boing boing to hit those numbers. Jul 26 06:02:30 Zuchmir2: I guess I can write up the wiki article, unless you want to. Jul 26 06:03:57 I think we could probably accomplish the same thing we did simpler, just install the ia32-libs, and then install the .deb with the "force architecture" switch if you have a deb-based distro Jul 26 06:06:26 hmm, lagged out Jul 26 06:08:38 wow Jul 26 06:08:41 a lot of people quit Jul 26 06:09:15 netsplit Jul 26 06:09:29 oh Jul 26 06:09:33 hey, earlier today Jul 26 06:09:38 rick gave me a link, or at least i think rick Jul 26 06:09:47 to like, a brainstormed idea of how the GUI installer on the pre would look Jul 26 06:09:53 anyone know what that link was? Jul 26 06:10:07 nvm, got it Jul 26 06:11:12 Decimation did you get it? Jul 26 06:11:29 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/OPS:webOS-ware Jul 26 06:12:20 yep Jul 26 06:15:39 Rick__: I'm surprised your focus group doesn't want a search capability Jul 26 06:22:46 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Installing_novaterm_on_ubuntu_64-bit Jul 26 06:23:04 someone want to figure out where to link it to please Jul 26 06:25:11 Zuchmir2: I think we need two sections, one for debian based distros (where ia32-libs exist) and one without. on the deb based side I think we can actually force install regardless of arch Jul 26 06:25:35 Zuchmir2: did you put the palm stuff in /opt or somewhere else.. if you can remove it for a moment I can try having you install it as a package properly Jul 26 06:25:47 ie kill novacomd, remove directories if they're in ./ Jul 26 06:25:59 s/.// Jul 26 06:26:00 destinal meant: ie kill novacomd, remove directories if they're in / Jul 26 06:26:39 Zuchmir2: would you be willing to be a guinea pig for a sec? Jul 26 06:29:15 ok Jul 26 06:29:23 lemme see what it does Jul 26 06:30:09 actually, i tried already, it complained ... Jul 26 06:30:10 when trying "dpkg -i palm-novacom_0.3-svn177284-hud9_i386.deb" i get: package architecture (i386) does not match system (amd64) Jul 26 06:30:16 try --force-architecture Jul 26 06:30:41 since you have ia32-libs already, that should be all you need Jul 26 06:32:22 yup! that worked Jul 26 06:33:28 woot, got a terminal app sort of working Jul 26 06:33:28 now you can just initctl start palm-novacomd and run novaterm and life is happy? Jul 26 06:33:39 geist: congrats Jul 26 06:34:44 geist: we got 32-bit novacomd, novaterm, etc running on amd64 with debians ia32-libs (since stuff dynamically links to usb code the one for the proper architecture gets dynamically linked in) Jul 26 06:34:49 edstinal: yeah, i just updated the wiki page Jul 26 06:34:55 ah okay, so that's all it needed Jul 26 06:35:03 thought there was a low level ioctl thing, guess not Jul 26 06:35:36 just libusb I think Jul 26 06:36:00 i still get "novacom: unexpected EOF from server" (although i'm runing this on the host OS) Jul 26 06:36:23 Zuchmir2: still works for a bit and drops out? Jul 26 06:36:24 ... i never got that when i was connected via my mac Jul 26 06:36:29 yeah Jul 26 06:36:48 Zuchmir2: very strange Jul 26 06:37:01 wondering if that happens when there's some segfault (which i've never seen when connected from mac) Jul 26 06:37:40 but maybe the VM server is also playing tricks w/that Jul 26 06:41:14 Zuchmir2: think we should post a new release of the terminal app? Jul 26 06:41:59 I'm not generally averse to daily releases at this point since things are improving so quickly Jul 26 06:42:19 i have another small mod in the working, give me 15 minutes Jul 26 06:42:42 Zuchmir2: is that a yes then? :) Jul 26 06:43:31 yeah, i think the 1000 line scrolling is important Jul 26 06:43:42 it's almost unusable w/o it Jul 26 06:45:15 geist is your terminal that sort of works shareable? I know you can't open-source it.... Jul 26 06:47:53 yep, wiring in resize right now Jul 26 06:47:57 gimme a few more minutes Jul 26 06:48:04 however long you need sir. Jul 26 06:48:19 That looks sweet Rick Jul 26 06:49:49 * Rick__ has been wanting this for -- well, since he figured out it was missing. Jul 26 06:50:02 * Rick__ thinks a little politeness is a small price. Jul 26 06:54:10 Rick__: is a port of ajaxterm to mojo worthful? Jul 26 06:55:38 yes Jul 26 06:55:48 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Ajaxterm Jul 26 06:55:49 for several reasons Jul 26 06:56:45 congratulations!!! Jul 26 06:57:38 it's got some major bugs though Jul 26 06:57:49 such as the enter key not working (currently have \ replacing it) Jul 26 06:57:53 tabbing doesn't work Jul 26 06:58:01 We've been muttering that a lighter weight back-end is possible than the python piece, but porting the FRONT END piece working at all is great. Jul 26 06:58:03 Congrats. Jul 26 06:58:03 but those are easy to fix, need to replace the events with mooj events Jul 26 06:58:11 nodnod Jul 26 06:58:33 otherwise it work, i tried using vi and it seems to work ok Jul 26 06:58:48 mooj-ing things is non-trivial Jul 26 07:00:28 actually, the port didn't take longer than an hour. since everything is written in javascript, html, and css, i had to debug some minor issues Jul 26 07:01:13 though, going through and mojofying so that it should be written the way it should, with mojo UI apis, would be annoying Jul 26 07:01:58 thank you ^^ Jul 26 07:02:17 welcome Jul 26 07:03:36 I've been mooj-ing older js apps for a couple of weeks. It's a hunk of work because the model is so different between a direct html entity directly in the html and mojo's "we'll insert a widget in this here div if you exercise the right setup in the assistant." -- very different paradigm, and for some things, not trivial. Jul 26 07:04:32 ah, I see Jul 26 07:05:29 I wonder if interface for the terminal should allow for swipable lines? for example, you could swipe out a line in the console (like you could in email to delete) and it would allow for copy, or execute the command again Jul 26 07:08:18 i see there was a mod which changed from 1000 lines scroll back to 1000/8 Jul 26 07:08:43 am i not understanding something there? Jul 26 07:09:23 mrvc, destinal: is the numbers that i used to large or something? Jul 26 07:11:58 ugh, tab key is hard to get Jul 26 07:12:03 it gets intercepted somehow Jul 26 07:13:17 ah, got it Jul 26 07:13:23 have to turn off TabStop for that control Jul 26 07:14:08 Zuchmir2: talk to mrvc Jul 26 07:15:18 Zuchmir2: hey Jul 26 07:15:27 mrvc: is the numbers that i used to large or something? Jul 26 07:15:53 Zuchmir2: I originally didn't realize you meant 1000 lines Jul 26 07:15:57 mrvc: have a look at the mod i did in http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/commit/7886d59173ef94c265b1d1793d9078385516fda4 Jul 26 07:16:10 Zuchmir2: I saw your last change and I merged it in Jul 26 07:16:16 i have a comment there, so that it doesn't fall out again ;-) Jul 26 07:16:17 Zuchmir2: so it should be at 1000 lines now Jul 26 07:16:34 but u changed termPlugin.setTerminalHeight(landscape_height); Jul 26 07:16:51 that means the full scroll area will now shrink! Jul 26 07:17:13 to 300 pixels! Jul 26 07:17:16 Zuchmir2: it shouldn't be that way in the latest head Jul 26 07:17:24 lemme look Jul 26 07:17:55 i just did a clone, because i couldnt push my minor mods Jul 26 07:18:00 and i saw that there Jul 26 07:19:10 Zuchmir2: are you doing a pull before you push? Jul 26 07:19:50 Zuchmir2: generally you have to do commit, then pull, then push Jul 26 07:19:59 lemme look at this again... Jul 26 07:20:14 yeah the pull complained Jul 26 07:20:36 Zuchmir2: pull will complain if you haven't committed Jul 26 07:20:57 Zuchmir2: if you have committed, it will merge the changes Jul 26 07:27:14 What language are Pre applications written in? Jul 26 07:27:39 javaascript Jul 26 07:27:57 Can you run native applications? Jul 26 07:28:22 Specifically: you can get a root shell on these things, I've read. Given that, can you create native applications that integrate into the normal GUI? Jul 26 07:28:23 Rick__: very rough, try http://tkgeisel.com/stuff/novaterm-1.zip Jul 26 07:28:23 quotemstr_ http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Linux_Applications Jul 26 07:28:35 Thanks Jul 26 07:28:45 one connection at a time, doesn't handle getting the rug pulled out from underneath it, etc Jul 26 07:28:54 i did a pul, made changes, now what do i do Jul 26 07:28:56 arrow keys dont seem to work either, need to add support for that Jul 26 07:29:10 Too bad the keyboard doesn't have enough keys to make Emacs usable. :-) Jul 26 07:29:24 do i just push now? Jul 26 07:29:37 quotemstr_: heh, how many more do you need? Jul 26 07:29:50 and would your fingers survive it Jul 26 07:29:52 i'm wondering if the terminalcontrol stuff will work without some elaborate install Jul 26 07:29:53 destinal: At least Control, Alt, and Meta. Hyper would be nice too. Jul 26 07:29:56 :-) Jul 26 07:30:52 geist: awesome, thanks Jul 26 07:31:02 does it work? Jul 26 07:31:17 trying, sec Jul 26 07:31:57 Wait -- so even the built-in applications are written in Javascript? How do they access things like the camera, the local filesystem, and so on? Jul 26 07:32:38 geist -- trying now Jul 26 07:33:13 quotemstr_: services and plugins that run at a lower level Jul 26 07:33:32 destinal: Ah, like Mozilla's xpconnect stuff? Jul 26 07:33:43 quotemstr_: well the plugins are actually NPAPI Jul 26 07:33:50 with some extensions Jul 26 07:34:22 geist works PERFECTLY Jul 26 07:34:22 Zuchmir2: you should commit then push Jul 26 07:34:28 quotemstr_: if you're interested in this stuff, check out basicplugin and termplugin from our git repository Jul 26 07:34:31 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications Jul 26 07:34:35 there may be things it doesn't do, but it by golly works. Jul 26 07:34:35 destinal: Well, right, but the concept is the same. Thanks. :-) Jul 26 07:34:48 * quotemstr_ is seriously considering getting a Pre just for the hackability Jul 26 07:34:52 Rick__: could use a lot of polish, but seems to do the job Jul 26 07:34:56 quotemstr_: that's why I bought one Jul 26 07:35:00 ot Jul 26 07:35:06 it's more than I actually hoped for. Jul 26 07:35:07 Is it worth waiting for the GSM version? Jul 26 07:35:23 Zuchmir2: did you have to make further changes? I had incorporated your 1000 line scrollback Jul 26 07:35:41 I've been tech-supporting using novacom -t open tty:// and getting a prompt in cmd with no ability to do anthing but single line commands Jul 26 07:35:44 this is GLORIOUS Jul 26 07:35:47 thank you Jul 26 07:36:05 Also -- is there anything you *can't* do? No strange kernel DRM modules? No code signing? Jul 26 07:36:09 i'll look at what the license is on this. I just stole some stuff off the interweb, but as far as i can tell this code has no license Jul 26 07:36:17 for the vt100 stuff Jul 26 07:36:25 and what about the nova stuff? Jul 26 07:36:30 i just wrote it Jul 26 07:36:34 ahhh Jul 26 07:36:36 well then. Jul 26 07:36:48 quotemstr_: no crypto lock in the boot-loader, you can rebuild and flash your own kernel or whatever you want. Jul 26 07:37:00 so as far as you know the binary is shareable? Jul 26 07:37:27 sure, go for it Jul 26 07:37:36 destinal: That's amazing for this continent. Jul 26 07:37:37 mrvc: i'm very confused w/the output of the git, as i see your work in my merges, it's hard to spot what i changed, and what u changed Jul 26 07:37:46 i'll clean it up and probably dump the source as well, then someone else can fool with it Jul 26 07:37:52 but now i think it has the fix i wanted in there Jul 26 07:37:53 and laugh at my terrible windows skillz Jul 26 07:37:56 thanks. Jul 26 07:38:12 this isn't terrible. This is a gift. we'll take it. Jul 26 07:38:39 quotemstr_: We're very pleased that Palm didn't try to lock Pre owners out of their own devices, it makes it useful for all kinds of reasons, and yeah, is a large part of the reason I bought one Jul 26 07:38:57 Do you think the platform will stay open? Jul 26 07:39:07 my main mods were: Jul 26 07:39:08 static const int screen_width = 480 / 8; // since landscape_width is 480, this will avoid the realloc when user flips screen the 1st time (the black/white screen) Jul 26 07:39:08 static const int screen_height = 400 / 8; // since the JS has normal_height as 400, let the default here be the same! Jul 26 07:40:33 quotemstr_ it appears that way. it is impossible to know what the future holds, but the way that the system is designed it would be -- difficult -- to close . Jul 26 07:40:51 it's deeply built on open source software. Jul 26 07:40:55 Rick__: Future versions of the hardware could be tivoized. Jul 26 07:41:14 the higher level stuff's not open but as for webos the userland under it and the majority of the infrastructure is. Jul 26 07:41:29 That's a reasonable compromise. Jul 26 07:41:33 it's impossible to tell what the future might hold. corporate pressures are not somthing we can predict Jul 26 07:42:11 I also like the all-Javascript idea -- as I can see on the wiki, it makes the phone easy to patch. Jul 26 07:42:21 on the other hand, palm staff engineers and programmers have been known to come into this channel and talk with users. Jul 26 07:42:41 (hehehehehe) Jul 26 07:43:21 quotemstr_: I think so far palm hasn't found any kind of return on investment in draconian lockdown measures (ie apple) Jul 26 07:44:14 destinal: Right. The DRM is the reason I've specifically avoided the iPhone. I'm using a couple-year-old S60 phone now. It's all right, but buggy and frustrating. Jul 26 07:45:02 Zuchmir2: yep, that's good Jul 26 07:45:24 Zuchmir2: I find I really have to check "git log" to see the commits Jul 26 07:45:40 mrvc: the web interface for gitorious is nice also Jul 26 07:45:44 Zuchmir2: and then "git show" to see the changes made by a particular commit Jul 26 07:46:07 they do visual colorized diffs Jul 26 07:46:09 ok, i've been looking @ http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/commits/master Jul 26 07:46:28 ... and clicking on the chane Jul 26 07:46:47 but it's very confusing when there's a pull Jul 26 07:48:31 mrvc, Zuchmir2: ok, are everyone's changes in, and have we tested the latest? I want to push a new release if so Jul 26 07:48:42 * destinal goes to test in emulator Jul 26 07:49:00 hold... Jul 26 07:49:05 Woohoo - The message-forwarding patch forwards attachments now! Jul 26 07:49:21 when u flip sideways, the vertical, it loses data Jul 26 07:49:26 and shrinks Jul 26 07:49:37 JackieRipper: Does it forward as a separate MIME part, or just inline? Jul 26 07:50:09 It adds the file as an attachment, as if you had clicked the attach button and selected a file Jul 26 07:50:56 I'm not sure how attachments are handled by default Jul 26 07:50:57 mrvc: scroller.setStyle({"height":new_height+5+"px"}); is chopping it Jul 26 07:51:14 Zuchmir2: chopping? Jul 26 07:51:47 quotemstr_: it uses the existing method Jul 26 07:51:52 yeah try to put 60 lines on the screen, then flip botth direction, u will see the area shrinks Jul 26 07:51:55 Zuchmir2: I had to add 5 pixels because the plugin size was coming out 5 pixels smaller than it should Jul 26 07:52:34 ... specifically, have a look @ resizeToPixels() what sizes they change to Jul 26 07:52:59 yeah, but it also affected the pluggin "scroll" area Jul 26 07:53:51 had to use setTerminalHeight() to avoid changing MOJO's knowledge of the dimenstions... Jul 26 07:55:06 Zuchmir2: yeah, it shouldn't be looking at the window size when it is determining the visibile height Jul 26 07:55:18 Zuchmir2: that should all be based on what is set with setTerminalHeight Jul 26 07:55:43 hmm, looks like i've overlooked something... Jul 26 07:56:15 i see that when i hit enter, the area grows.... Jul 26 07:57:18 ... but flip both ways and u see u loose data Jul 26 07:57:28 i lost 17 lines Jul 26 07:57:54 Zuchmir2: lose? Jul 26 07:59:18 run this script: http://pastebin.com/d71fa3158 then flip both ways, and look for lines 1-17 Jul 26 08:00:45 which function is growing the buffer size? Jul 26 08:00:47 Zuchmir2: yeah, I see what you mean Jul 26 08:00:53 ... when you press enter Jul 26 08:01:26 ... that function is not updating resizeToPixels() Jul 26 08:01:50 ... or char_buf::resize Jul 26 08:02:21 Zuchmir2: the buffer shouldn't be growing Jul 26 08:02:29 umm novaterm for windows bugs in win7 64 Jul 26 08:03:50 Zuchmir2: it should stay at about 1000 lines Jul 26 08:04:31 press enter when at the bottom of screen, and it grows (after flipping?) Jul 26 08:05:50 Zuchmir2: you mean the value returned by char_buf.height() changes? Jul 26 08:06:38 i'm not sure what's changing... but visually it moves on the screen Jul 26 08:07:03 it scrolls to where the cursor is Jul 26 08:07:12 Zuchmir2: it scrolls all the data upward Jul 26 08:07:22 Zuchmir2: but the buffer should stay the same size Jul 26 08:07:35 Zuchmir2: the top line is discarded Jul 26 08:07:46 Zuchmir2: I think I know the problem though Jul 26 08:07:53 something very wierd is happening...., i'm not sure what Jul 26 08:07:59 Rick_: the interesting thing about the wiki numbers you gave is that the server is not going over 20% cpu at any time. Jul 26 08:08:02 Zuchmir2: currently the resize is preserving the top rows Jul 26 08:08:10 Zuchmir2: but we really want it to preserve the bottom rows Jul 26 08:08:48 it looks like stuff is being stored at the bottom Jul 26 08:09:04 'cause i can scroll up, and not down Jul 26 08:10:37 palm has posted the source to webos 1.1 Jul 26 08:10:59 Zuchmir2: yeah, the working area of the terminal is always at the bottom now Jul 26 08:11:21 jauderho: the open source pieces? yeah, very little has changed Jul 26 08:11:30 yeah Jul 26 08:11:40 Zuchmir2: I'm testing a fix Jul 26 08:11:40 I was going to see if the kernel has changed Jul 26 08:11:46 was that intentional? Jul 26 08:12:51 Zuchmir2: yep Jul 26 08:13:00 ok Jul 26 08:13:31 where in the code did that get done? Jul 26 08:14:38 jauderho: it has not Jul 26 08:14:41 Zuchmir2: I modified charbuffer to have a top row == buffer_height-screen_height Jul 26 08:14:49 actually it had Jul 26 08:14:51 has Jul 26 08:15:06 jauderho: oh? maybe my diff was wrong somehow? rechecking Jul 26 08:15:08 different patch size for linux source between 1.1 and 1.0.4 Jul 26 08:15:15 ok, and is that being updated when u rotate? Jul 26 08:15:28 doing a diff between the diffs right now. Jul 26 08:15:34 not too much has changed Jul 26 08:16:59 Zuchmir2: the screen height is updated, which effectively updates the top row Jul 26 08:17:00 lol I think I see where the USB hack/fix for itunes is coming in =) Jul 26 08:17:56 jauderho: nice Jul 26 08:17:57 that's pretty much it Jul 26 08:18:17 too bad they are not doing anything about the power Jul 26 08:18:18 mgmt Jul 26 08:28:13 hey guys Jul 26 08:28:29 hey Decimation Jul 26 08:32:06 anyone use the windows version of novaterm Jul 26 08:35:05 rwhitby: hows it going? Jul 26 08:35:30 is there anyway to improve boot time on my pre? Jul 26 08:52:03 Zuchmir2: ok, it is fixed -- pushing Jul 26 08:52:44 ok Jul 26 08:53:04 someone was saying most of the boot time is in the luna sysmgr so unless the source for that is released.... Jul 26 08:55:30 Zuchmir2: well, close -- still not ideal, just a sec Jul 26 08:56:42 ok Jul 26 09:10:41 It's hilarious to read people whining about not being able to "protect" their Javascript "intellectual property" Jul 26 09:27:16 Zuchmir2: ok, it works now Jul 26 09:27:22 Zuchmir2: I've pushed my changes Jul 26 09:27:39 hello everyone Jul 26 09:28:22 Zuchmir2: you want to check it before we make a release? Jul 26 09:29:31 ok, lemme d/l Jul 26 09:32:21 what are you guys releasing? Jul 26 09:32:49 terminal upgrade Jul 26 09:34:52 ahh, nice Jul 26 09:35:01 what are the pro's as to the current release? Jul 26 09:35:25 bugs Jul 26 09:36:27 looks good! Jul 26 09:36:56 i guess it's ready for release Jul 26 09:36:58 when will it be released, i wanna try her out :) Jul 26 09:38:08 rwhitby: should I update the appinfo? Jul 26 09:40:02 rwhitby: 0.1.2? Jul 26 09:41:09 0.1.2 is already out i though. Jul 26 09:41:38 right, 0.1.3 Jul 26 09:42:01 there was a mismatch beteween the package version and the internal version Jul 26 09:42:06 ahh. Jul 26 09:42:16 i just keep refreshing in putty Jul 26 09:42:37 checking to see that 0.1.2 change to a 0.1.3 Jul 26 09:46:47 I gotta go to bed Jul 26 09:47:46 what time is it for you? Jul 26 09:48:00 5:47AM Jul 26 09:48:06 hah, same here Jul 26 09:48:14 where do ya live? Jul 26 09:48:19 I'm in Atlanta Jul 26 09:48:28 ahh, im all the way up next to detroit. Jul 26 09:49:13 i really shouldnt be staying up this late, on monday, or should i say tomorrow, i have to start waking up at 7, every day. Jul 26 09:49:29 Decimation: ouch Jul 26 09:49:39 i think im just gonna push on and stay up till like.. 9 PM Jul 26 09:49:45 maybe just 8 Jul 26 09:49:53 and sleep from then till 7 AM Jul 26 09:50:09 hah, im 14, i have the energy :) Jul 26 09:50:25 Decimation: heh,, I'm 39 Jul 26 09:50:28 good nite/day :-) Jul 26 09:50:28 i just cant stay away from my computer with all these pre updates... interest me.. so so much. Jul 26 09:50:49 See ya Zuchmir2 Jul 26 09:51:09 i just wanna let you know, what you guys are doing here, for the pre-owning community Jul 26 09:51:12 its great. Jul 26 09:51:34 Cool thanks Jul 26 09:52:29 well, im gonna go outside, the trampoline will keep me awake :P Jul 26 09:52:45 i look forward to a terminal update, cya later guys. Jul 26 09:53:08 later Jul 26 09:57:54 anyone here use chatzilla? Jul 26 09:58:02 yep Jul 26 09:58:10 im new to using irc's Jul 26 09:58:14 this is my first one actually Jul 26 09:58:18 how do i operate chatzilla? Jul 26 09:58:27 im using mirc right now to connect. Jul 26 09:58:34 on chatzilla, how do i join this? Jul 26 09:59:20 it should give you a list of networks when you start it. freenode is one of them Jul 26 10:00:28 [INFO] Network view for “freenode” opened. Jul 26 10:00:28 [INFO] Attempting to connect to “freenode”. Use /cancel to abort. Jul 26 10:00:28 [INFO] Connecting to irc://freenode/ (irc://irc.freenode.net/)… [Cancel] Jul 26 10:00:28 [ERROR] Firefox is in “offline mode”. No network connections can be made in this mode. Jul 26 10:00:37 it says its in offline mode? weird Jul 26 10:00:57 can you browse the web? Jul 26 10:01:01 yes Jul 26 10:01:30 hmm... try restarting firefox Jul 26 10:02:23 are using the firefox extension or the xulrunner version? Jul 26 10:02:45 got it working :) Jul 26 10:02:57 cool Jul 26 10:03:03 thanks, trampoline time Jul 26 10:06:54 mrvc-zzz, Zuchmir2: appinfo.json still says 0.1.1 - is it ready for 0.1.3 ? Jul 26 10:09:22 * rwhitby pushes an appinfo.json update Jul 26 10:11:05 rwhitby: can we get {{#if: }} and such on the wiki? Jul 26 10:11:28 X1011: dunno, what extension does it require, and what do you use it for? Jul 26 10:13:23 rwhitby: http://mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:ParserFunctions , and it's helpful for templates, not to mention Template:Languages, which appears in the imported help pages, is borked right now Jul 26 10:15:13 0.1.3 update broke the terminal for me Jul 26 10:15:39 Help:Magic words is also, ironically, borked Jul 26 10:15:47 Decimation: ... Jul 26 10:15:58 when i open it Jul 26 10:16:02 its just a blank white screen Jul 26 10:16:13 did you reboot? Jul 26 10:16:17 and i just tried rebooting Jul 26 10:16:22 now my phone wont start. Jul 26 10:17:39 took out battery and put it back in Jul 26 10:17:41 starting up now. Jul 26 10:18:14 it's working fine in the emulator Jul 26 10:18:29 Decimation: I only just pushed the change - are you sure you got 0.1.3 ? Jul 26 10:18:38 yup, just updated. Jul 26 10:18:46 restarting my phone as we speak Jul 26 10:18:55 ill reply in a minute with results Jul 26 10:19:02 * rwhitby bbl Jul 26 10:19:07 this phone's boot-times are a joke :| Jul 26 10:20:17 works great. Jul 26 10:49:02 X1011: installed Jul 26 12:00:15 rwhitby: what happened to cia? Jul 26 12:00:26 was it ever set up? Jul 26 12:00:49 it is set up for optware. gitorious doesn't have CIA support. Jul 26 12:01:15 oh Jul 26 12:01:31 you can have a local commit script though I think Jul 26 12:09:19 so everyone who clones and locally commits sends a message to CIA? how do you know when it is pushed? Jul 26 12:11:06 rwhitby: yeah, let me think about that, I maybe thinking that git has specific triggers Jul 26 12:11:36 but that wouldn't seem to include things being pushed to a certain remote Jul 26 12:53:51 So WebOS Quick Install is a GUI app that wraps the Palm novacom java classes. Jul 26 12:55:04 Hmm - in fact it seems to *include* the proprietary Palm novacom java classes and redistribute them. Jul 26 13:06:38 * rwhitby sends a note to the author, making sure he realises he's putting himself at risk of legal action from Palm by doing so. Jul 26 13:55:12 * rwhitby posts http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1780386 to help improve the WebOS Quick Install tool. Jul 26 15:11:50 Question do all the patches work post 1.1 update? Jul 26 15:16:03 Decimation-zzz Jul 26 15:16:29 StoneRyno what patches Jul 26 15:16:42 where? Jul 26 15:16:45 which ones? Jul 26 15:17:39 the webos-internal ones I assume the ones from http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches are all the patches Jul 26 15:18:26 are there other patches besides those? Jul 26 15:20:06 StoneRyno see this page http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Patches_to_webOS Jul 26 15:20:29 if they're patched to 1.1 the page for the patch sould say so Jul 26 15:20:42 SOMEONE needs to go through that portal page and note os level for each patch. Jul 26 15:21:01 -- if you aren't horribly busy. :-) Jul 26 15:23:09 I'll take a look at the page. Is the old page that uses the repository obsolete? And the portal page the go to place for patches then? Jul 26 15:36:10 ah, i missed geist talking about stuff .. i saw he gave us a C# terminal ? Jul 26 15:38:27 yo rick Jul 26 15:38:54 the terminal for windows errors on win7 64 Jul 26 15:40:05 hey has anyone installed optware on the sdk Jul 26 15:40:10 I have this error Jul 26 15:40:11 http://webos.pastebin.com/m28b0ada1 Jul 26 15:45:55 bzhou * r10495 optware/trunk/make/ctags.mk: ctags: 5.7 -> 5.8 Jul 26 15:49:34 bzhou * r10496 optware/trunk/make/bzrtools.mk: bzrtools: 1.16.0 -> 1.17.0 Jul 26 16:01:36 joesmith no. is ther already a file there with that name? Jul 26 16:01:39 try rm'ing it Jul 26 16:01:46 CIA-35 what???? Jul 26 16:07:06 ok please take a look at this Jul 26 16:07:08 http://webos.pastebin.com/m6e67d39 Jul 26 16:08:04 joesmith: you need to follow the steps on adding a disk to the emulator Jul 26 16:08:23 I added disk to the emulator Jul 26 16:10:00 joesmith: try ls -al /dev/hdb Jul 26 16:13:04 Ok, I need Help... Jul 26 16:14:01 afternoon Jul 26 16:14:23 oh HELL! no. Jul 26 16:14:33 WTF, is up with this last update I got around 0400~ Jul 26 16:14:46 ? Jul 26 16:14:49 my sms dings are retarded sounding now, this better be changeable eaisly with out having to up updown down my fone Jul 26 16:15:13 lol Jul 26 16:15:14 this retarded ding makes me want to unsheath my g17 and put something that's living, down Jul 26 16:15:22 >8 o Jul 26 16:15:49 I think its way better then the screeching pierce of the old one Jul 26 16:15:59 beside just change it Jul 26 16:16:02 I think it sounds, pardon my french, fucking retarded. Jul 26 16:16:14 then change it Jul 26 16:16:14 I have been having a problem with running talk.py, nothing wants to happen Jul 26 16:16:16 joesmith: if it's at all possible Jul 26 16:16:24 last I recall, changing it, changed all other system ding sounds Jul 26 16:16:58 you could revert to the old one Jul 26 16:17:51 If anyone wants to let me know, what do I do if Talk.py doesnt do anything? Jul 26 16:18:47 can't chown a directory as root. wan't to set up sftp file transfers. get error: "operation not permitted" Jul 26 16:20:41 what directory? Jul 26 16:21:12 directory is /media/internals Jul 26 16:21:29 underneath I create /media/internals/walter Jul 26 16:21:38 rather .. /media/internals/music/walter Jul 26 16:22:09 yeah Jul 26 16:22:11 that's fat32 Jul 26 16:22:14 which is why you can't do that Jul 26 16:22:37 well I hadn't thought to try to create files as walter, maybe it will work. Jul 26 16:22:56 it's a fat32 limitation Jul 26 16:24:23 yeah never mind. It doesn't care that I am an ordinary user. I can transfer just fine using sftp. Jul 26 16:28:55 bzhou * r10497 optware/trunk/platforms/packages-gumstix1151.mk: packages-gumstix1151: demoted nmap Jul 26 16:30:04 mrvc: good morning Jul 26 16:31:15 destinal: good morning! Jul 26 16:32:39 morning dest Jul 26 16:32:57 * destinal checks out the term 0.1.3 push he missed by going to bed :) Jul 26 16:35:11 http://www.pcworld.com/article/169039/palm_pre_is_the_most_open_mobile_platform_on_the_market.html - great article Jul 26 16:35:33 need more PR like this Jul 26 16:36:14 psykoz: cool, and that's the same reason I bought one. Jul 26 16:37:16 nod Jul 26 16:37:24 I was on the verge of picking up an iphone 3g or 3gs, thought, palm pre, ho hum (didn't even know it ran a linux based OS) and then I saw that -internals folks had gotten a root shell, and that it was easy. one day later and I would have bought the wrong platform Jul 26 16:37:57 I would have gotten an iPhone if it came to sprint sooner than the Pre, thankfully it didn't Jul 26 16:38:25 I love my sprint 25% discount, so it's hard for me to leave for AT&T or Verizon over a phone having a thousand features I don't care about Jul 26 16:38:45 (and pay double) Jul 26 16:45:32 Iphone 65,000+ apps, 64,900 pointless apps, 100 useful at best. Jul 26 16:45:37 nice work guys, (on terminal) Jul 26 16:52:13 destinal: you think all the webkit stuff is in the luna process? Jul 26 16:52:33 tmzt:I do. Jul 26 16:52:57 the best indication is that when we break plugin draw handling the process we segfault is LunaSysMgr Jul 26 16:53:06 good Jul 26 16:53:17 ooh Jul 26 16:53:24 you just gave me an idea Jul 26 16:53:46 I wonder if being in-process with Luna lets us access any of its functions directly? Jul 26 16:54:12 calling luna methods from the plugin ? Jul 26 16:54:16 any keys for up/dn/left/right yet? (just curious) Jul 26 16:54:26 yeah .. it would be a horrible violation of the abstraction concepts so probably a very bad idea Jul 26 16:54:32 but intruiging Jul 26 16:55:19 is there any plan on utilizing the libPiranha stuff ? Jul 26 16:55:31 where is the terminal on the website? Jul 26 16:55:40 I installed the first version now I want to update heh Jul 26 16:55:54 use terminal to update terminal ? Jul 26 16:56:07 yeah, I just need the commands Jul 26 16:56:17 so I was being polite and was asking where it was on the website Jul 26 16:56:19 hard to find Jul 26 16:56:22 ipkg -o /var update ; ipkg -o /var upgrade i thought Jul 26 16:56:32 but i am not an expert Jul 26 16:56:52 yes, update, upgrade Jul 26 16:56:55 then reboot Jul 26 16:57:04 can I just restart luna? Jul 26 16:57:09 yes Jul 26 16:57:34 I was just trying to keep it simple just in case. Luna needs to restart is the reason. Jul 26 16:57:45 yeah Jul 26 16:57:48 no, I know all the commands Jul 26 16:57:51 cool Jul 26 16:57:52 I just forgot the specifics Jul 26 16:57:58 Luna restart is the slow part Jul 26 16:58:02 been studying a ton of other things the past few days Jul 26 16:58:06 the rest of the reboot is fast Jul 26 16:58:10 I know I just hate rebooting heh Jul 26 16:58:26 been a *nix administrator for a decade Jul 26 17:00:36 I hate the new wiki Jul 26 17:00:43 I cant navigate it Jul 26 17:00:50 it is hard Jul 26 17:01:06 I cant find any of the pages Jul 26 17:01:11 I want Jul 26 17:01:23 :( Jul 26 17:01:46 heh Jul 26 17:01:53 where is the terminal app on the website again? Jul 26 17:02:52 I can't find it by search or navigation Jul 26 17:03:14 our search functionality sucks :( Jul 26 17:03:23 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 26 17:03:46 still says 0.1.2 Jul 26 17:04:03 jwm: good point, will update Jul 26 17:04:26 can someone explain to me how the character counter patch works? Jul 26 17:04:31 0.1.3 is on preware but the wiki is outdated at the moment Jul 26 17:04:38 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Messaging_Mods Jul 26 17:04:49 on 1.1 of course Jul 26 17:05:21 * joesmith thinks its sad when I have to go to precentral to find stuff on the wiki Jul 26 17:06:04 heh Jul 26 17:06:04 the front page to the wiki looks nice Jul 26 17:06:10 lets see if i can find the terminal stuff Jul 26 17:06:25 I didn't even think about going to precentral.com Jul 26 17:06:28 er Jul 26 17:06:31 precentral.net Jul 26 17:07:31 for some reason, it's considered a linux application Jul 26 17:07:36 and not a webOS application Jul 26 17:07:39 i think that's an oversight Jul 26 17:07:54 anyone on the character counter patch? Jul 26 17:08:04 or just normal instructions? Jul 26 17:08:19 * joesmith likes to edit the files himself Jul 26 17:09:01 I like the name Scary Black Screen Jul 26 17:09:07 I vote for it to be the official terminal name Jul 26 17:09:09 or SBS Jul 26 17:09:09 hehe Jul 26 17:09:28 can anyone think why Jul 26 17:09:36 why ipkg update doesn't do anything for me? Jul 26 17:09:47 I'm root, / is rw.... Jul 26 17:09:55 The command ipkg -o var update simply returns nothing Jul 26 17:10:03 same with list Jul 26 17:10:03 rawdr: ipkg -o /var update Jul 26 17:10:15 ah.. Jul 26 17:10:17 heh Jul 26 17:10:33 then you can ipkg -o /var upgrade to get current Jul 26 17:10:35 silly me. Jul 26 17:10:39 thanks Jul 26 17:10:45 why is -o /var needed? whats the default? Jul 26 17:10:50 anyone recommend a case for the pre? Jul 26 17:10:56 is the innocase nice? Jul 26 17:11:07 i keep mine naked and haven't gotten a scratch on it Jul 26 17:11:13 but i put nothing else in the pocket Jul 26 17:11:23 I'm still using the microfiber cloth bag Jul 26 17:11:29 it is actually pretty effective Jul 26 17:11:30 heh Jul 26 17:12:07 I use the palm leather hip case but it's a little slow to pull phone out sometimes. nice quality though Jul 26 17:12:44 I want to edit the terminal source and add background image support :) Jul 26 17:13:09 I never actually answer a call successfully Jul 26 17:13:14 with the pre Jul 26 17:13:18 after 1.10, the music app for me no longer keeps the Pre from going into standby while on battery power, which is some nuisance while using SSH (well, and my music is stuttering)...I searched around and can't find any info from other people...thoughts? Jul 26 17:13:46 sprint store up the street Jul 26 17:13:55 >complain Jul 26 17:14:21 why does the comma not work in terminal? Jul 26 17:14:28 I am just curious why it is hard to do the comma Jul 26 17:14:29 hehe Jul 26 17:14:41 not complaining Jul 26 17:17:12 oh, it's not hard Jul 26 17:17:23 I can do that in a few minutes, let me check it Jul 26 17:17:54 I use , as my irssi command char Jul 26 17:17:55 hehe Jul 26 17:18:57 does anyone know what size my images should be for the video/music artwork? Jul 26 17:20:46 destinal, $ and ! don't seem to work either Jul 26 17:21:07 (get 4 and 1 instead) Jul 26 17:21:14 otherwise fantastic app Jul 26 17:21:37 do you need webos internals for it to run? Jul 26 17:21:55 I am typing in it right now Jul 26 17:22:31 I love that screen works great Jul 26 17:23:08 jwm: first report of running screen. nice Jul 26 17:23:33 heh Jul 26 17:24:07 excellent Jul 26 17:24:21 i am actually ssh'd to my server and ran screen -r Jul 26 17:24:21 does tab work ? Jul 26 17:24:26 does the terminal rely on webos internals to issue commands? Jul 26 17:24:37 it relies on a browser plugin Jul 26 17:25:14 ok, back on the laptop Jul 26 17:25:21 it takes forever to type on those little buttons Jul 26 17:25:26 hehe Jul 26 17:25:27 I will install it on the sdk so I can understand it, I am n00bishly slow Jul 26 17:26:08 you can do a tab with ctrl+i Jul 26 17:26:13 which is sym+i Jul 26 17:26:14 excellent Jul 26 17:27:37 I love tab completion Jul 26 17:27:43 you can do it in the terminal too Jul 26 17:27:44 hehe Jul 26 17:28:38 I hope the next webos device will let you move the keyboard from vertical to horizontal Jul 26 17:28:59 or maybe a bluetooth keyboard that snaps onto the pre would be neat Jul 26 17:29:00 hehe Jul 26 17:29:02 there is no other webos device there is only THE PRE Jul 26 17:29:13 webos is doomed then heh Jul 26 17:29:16 i liked being able to update my terminal from inside terminal and then reboot Jul 26 17:29:19 so fun Jul 26 17:29:22 joesmith: that's just for now, more are coming Jul 26 17:29:26 joesmith pixie should be out in a month or two Jul 26 17:29:37 * joesmith doesnt like pixie Jul 26 17:29:52 I will shell out for the pre II if it comes Jul 26 17:29:53 jwm dod you see the line in the wiki about terminal about rotating the keyboard? Jul 26 17:30:08 joesmith I agree, but the point is, pre isn't the only one. Jul 26 17:30:21 I know ; ) Jul 26 17:30:38 Rick__: yeah, that is why I mentioned it Jul 26 17:30:42 Rick__: I thought that was funny Jul 26 17:31:00 it looks like the keyboard mechanism should rotate Jul 26 17:31:04 or feels like it Jul 26 17:31:19 try it Jul 26 17:31:23 you proably just have to twist really hard Jul 26 17:31:26 hah Jul 26 17:31:46 just learn to type sideways! Jul 26 17:31:49 with one thumb Jul 26 17:31:59 bp I've been doing precisely that when on web pages. Jul 26 17:32:09 I'm about 2/3 as fast as when in portrait Jul 26 17:32:13 it doesn't take long to learn dvorak...i'm sure it wouldn't be too hard Jul 26 17:32:28 what I want is for someone to port graffiti to the pre. Jul 26 17:32:29 :-) Jul 26 17:32:43 no wasting screen space on on-screen-keyboards in landscape. Jul 26 17:32:47 heh Jul 26 17:33:00 doenst graffiti require a stylus? Jul 26 17:33:03 no Jul 26 17:33:07 you could do it with a finger Jul 26 17:33:13 the pre screen is plenty big enough to do it with a finger Jul 26 17:33:20 first thing I did way back when I got the treo700p was hack graffiti onto it :P Jul 26 17:33:25 plus, capacitative sylus's are 5 for $2 on ebay Jul 26 17:33:40 rick: they dont work on Pre Jul 26 17:33:47 I have some that do. Jul 26 17:33:49 soft tip Jul 26 17:33:53 hehe Jul 26 17:34:01 the hard tip ones don't Jul 26 17:34:20 Rick__: I have the two pogo stylus ones and they are hit and miss Jul 26 17:34:27 k Jul 26 17:34:34 I'll try to find the brand of these.... Jul 26 17:34:43 I wonder how long it will be before people take an archos or some small pda/tablet Jul 26 17:34:47 and port webos to it Jul 26 17:35:07 a couple of weeks after someone leaks palm-host. Jul 26 17:35:24 jwm: Got to wonder what the difference between WebOS and ChromeOS is going to be. Pretty much the same from what I am reading Jul 26 17:35:40 well Jul 26 17:35:44 it really is the future Jul 26 17:35:47 user experience is 99% Jul 26 17:36:32 well, mojo runs fine on a pc or a mac against apache in safari or chrome. that's what palm-host is, so you don't have to constantly make IPK's when developing. Jul 26 17:38:02 Rick__: I did read that 1.1 improved touchscreen response. Im going to check out the pogo again and see if it is any better. Jul 26 17:38:18 I've been having touchscreen problems since 1.1 Jul 26 17:38:32 it seems ok today though Jul 26 17:38:44 maybe my huge fingers are messing with it Jul 26 17:39:27 I had a mojo app sort-of running in safari by symlinking files to the right spots on my mac, but that seemed awkward Jul 26 17:39:42 wow.. the stylus is actually working much better on it now!! Jul 26 17:39:42 Is there a proper way to do that in safari? (eg. what's palm-host?) Jul 26 17:40:18 Palm host has not been released out of nda by palm Jul 26 17:40:25 Ah, okay Jul 26 17:40:47 but it's a mojo backend running against apache so that you can develop mojo apps and test them and inspect them in safari or chrome or any webkit browser Jul 26 17:41:05 without the emulator or a device. Jul 26 17:41:18 Does it have things like services and whatnot stubbed out or something? Jul 26 17:41:19 I suspect that it pre-dates the emulator and is how they actually DEVELOPED webOS Jul 26 17:41:49 lmorchard I'm not nda, I can't say. Of course, if I was nda I couldn't say. I know it hasn't leaked. Jul 26 17:41:54 heh Jul 26 17:42:05 "I can neither confirm nor deny these allegations, sir" Jul 26 17:42:14 hehe Jul 26 17:42:20 except I can confirm that _I_ am not nda. Jul 26 17:42:28 But I have SEEN it run on someone elses computer. Jul 26 17:42:45 Ah well, I'll just keep hacking at it until something proper appears Jul 26 17:42:54 "This is not the palm-host you are looking for." "You may go in peace" Jul 26 17:43:12 what is apache for? Jul 26 17:43:25 it's a web server. Jul 26 17:44:24 in many ways it is _THE_ web server. (NOTE: No wars about apache vs lightppd &C. ) Jul 26 17:44:27 Well the Pogo stylus works better now, however, not perfect. I am worried though about the soft plastic tip creating wear on the palm screen though. Jul 26 17:44:30 destinal: I took -DMOZ_X11 out of the makefile since we aren't really using X11 Jul 26 17:45:07 I mean in relation to palm host Jul 26 17:46:33 palm host is a compatibility layer between a webkit browser and apache that interprets mojo calls so yu can develop and run mojo apps on a pc. Jul 26 17:49:22 so the files are served from apache rather than local Jul 26 17:58:15 mrvc: did u also take out `pkg-config --cflags glib-2.0` (as that was not needed for the "make pre", i guess it wouldn't be needed for make all either) Jul 26 18:09:33 Zuchmir2: no, didn't try that.. I will Jul 26 18:11:19 ok, i wasn't sure what why that was there (I guess it was copied from another non-pre project), that's why i didnt touch it Jul 26 18:11:43 ... but seeing you are cleaning up the Makefile, i figured clean that up as well Jul 26 18:14:53 do you have to use apache for palm-host? Jul 26 18:14:56 could you use nginx Jul 26 18:16:29 Zuchmir2: yep, works fine without it Jul 26 18:17:07 Zuchmir2: I've done a little optimization to the glyph drawing and compiling with -O2, and it is a lot faster Jul 26 18:19:19 Zuchmir2: I don't generally like to focus on optimization so early, but it was making some people question the approach of drawing directly to the buffer Jul 26 18:19:48 hey destinal, u here? Jul 26 18:20:01 i was also thinking of optimizing for same reason Jul 26 18:31:22 werd, got my terminal updated to 1.3 Jul 26 18:31:34 dustifer: back Jul 26 18:33:08 mrvc: drawing directly to the buffer is fine, I mean what could be faster? optimizations are important, though Jul 26 18:33:29 I still think a terminal in mojo would be cool to do though, and I may Jul 26 18:33:48 someone make widgets for the home/main screen! Jul 26 18:33:56 just copy over the clock from the lock screen :P Jul 26 18:34:05 home/main? Jul 26 18:34:14 screen above the launcher, like the desktop Jul 26 18:34:19 idk what the right term would be Jul 26 18:34:31 I don't know if it supports widgets. Jul 26 18:34:44 I don't know why palm doesn't just have someone code a USB vendor id faking app Jul 26 18:34:47 why do you need 2 clocks on the main screen ? Jul 26 18:34:58 and identify normally as a palm device Jul 26 18:35:01 you could edit the top clock into a calender Jul 26 18:35:02 jwm: eh? Jul 26 18:35:04 and just connect through that Jul 26 18:35:11 i am confused Jul 26 18:35:11 if they want to sync with itunes Jul 26 18:35:17 Zuchmir2, destinal: changes are pushed Jul 26 18:35:23 jwm: root id has to be done in the kernel Jul 26 18:35:29 I know Jul 26 18:35:32 what point in a faking app Jul 26 18:35:32 mrvc, what did you push this time ? Jul 26 18:35:34 the app can hook into the kernel Jul 26 18:35:42 so that palm doesn't take blame Jul 26 18:35:45 bpadalino: mainly optimizations Jul 26 18:35:51 ah - that's good! Jul 26 18:35:53 bpadalino: draws much faster now Jul 26 18:35:58 wonderful Jul 26 18:36:01 scrolling is smoother ? Jul 26 18:36:04 jwm: oh, well palm is pushing itunes as a feature Jul 26 18:36:07 bpadalino: much Jul 26 18:36:12 oh - does scrolling follow when you do a long command ? Jul 26 18:36:16 or do you need to flick to the end ? Jul 26 18:36:28 bpadalino: no, you don't have to flick to keep up anymore Jul 26 18:36:32 yeah, but what they are doing is against usb protocol heh Jul 26 18:36:34 neato Jul 26 18:36:42 you guys are moving along so quickly Jul 26 18:36:55 you talking about the terminal? Jul 26 18:37:09 mrvc, i liked being able to update and upgrade then reboot right from the terminal app .. to update itself :) Jul 26 18:37:30 bpadalino: yep! trippy Jul 26 18:37:32 jwm: they don't use the usb logo so they can't be violating the logo program.. they may have had to agree to something to get the usb ID _they_ use and they might be violating _that_ agreement. I don't know Jul 26 18:37:44 http://www.precentral.net/new-upcoming-homebrew-farting-home-screen-and-app-installer Jul 26 18:37:45 odm Jul 26 18:37:47 destinal, they are Jul 26 18:37:50 isn't that a widget? Jul 26 18:37:59 james, it's its own application Jul 26 18:38:05 bpadalino: they are to which, the latter? Jul 26 18:38:13 does it run in the background on the desktop? Jul 26 18:38:14 bpadalino: no new release yet, so you'll have to build from source for the latest Jul 26 18:38:17 destinal, yes - they signed an agreement to get their vendor ID Jul 26 18:38:21 mrvc, i can wait :) Jul 26 18:38:25 bpadalino: ok, thought that might be it Jul 26 18:38:53 new version of sudo available hehe Jul 26 18:39:11 I still agree with what they're doing though, apple is breaking interoperability, working around it to be interoperable is fixing breakage Jul 26 18:39:28 it's not breaking interoperability Jul 26 18:39:41 it's just not allowing for it heh Jul 26 18:39:51 heh, same diff Jul 26 18:39:53 it seems easier to make the palm pre spoof the ipod than it does for apple to block the palm pre Jul 26 18:39:57 so i think it's funny Jul 26 18:39:58 like my printf("hello earth") is leaving out jupiter? :) Jul 26 18:39:59 yeah - palm implemented the interface .. the software should look for the interface and not the device Jul 26 18:40:00 right ? Jul 26 18:40:07 is it breaking jupiter compat? :) Jul 26 18:40:19 I just think it looks ugly for palm Jul 26 18:40:22 that is all Jul 26 18:40:22 gotta go grocery shopping .. bbl Jul 26 18:40:27 I don't like itunes anyway Jul 26 18:40:29 jwm: only if you make it check to see if it's on earth and shut down if not Jul 26 18:40:43 then you break jupiter interoperability Jul 26 18:40:50 it just looks like a pissing contest Jul 26 18:41:02 not something business people who would adopt the palm care to see Jul 26 18:41:23 destinal: comma/underscore aren't working in terminal -- i'll fix it Jul 26 18:41:43 weird, unplugged the pre and it didn't want to turn the screen on, then it rebooted. heh. Jul 26 18:41:52 mrvc: ok, comma doesn't work and underscore seems to work only if you _hold_ red Jul 26 18:42:08 not sure why on the underscore / hold, let me know what you find Jul 26 18:42:22 err hold orange Jul 26 18:42:25 Robi: mine does that all the time Jul 26 18:42:40 mrvc: your code is causing me to call it red now :) Jul 26 18:42:42 first time here with 1.1 Jul 26 18:43:07 maybe Palm should consider making Banshee work and supporting that on Windows Jul 26 18:43:21 banshee the music program? Jul 26 18:43:27 yeah Jul 26 18:43:37 i met one of the developers of that Jul 26 18:43:42 the default player is terrible Jul 26 18:43:43 he went to school with me Jul 26 18:44:29 friend trying to listen to audio books can't FFWD or bookmark , so he lets it run until it's where he left off Jul 26 18:44:43 you can FFWD Jul 26 18:44:46 hold down the >> Jul 26 18:45:00 there's no indicator Jul 26 18:45:06 oh, right Jul 26 18:45:08 no scrubber Jul 26 18:45:16 right Jul 26 18:47:21 can you edit an app inside where it downloads to and see the changes instantly? Jul 26 18:47:26 or do you have to reload luna heh Jul 26 18:47:29 or even repackage Jul 26 18:47:38 like /opt/usr/palm/... Jul 26 18:47:52 er /var/usr/palm/applications/org... Jul 26 18:48:25 prolly have to reload the app Jul 26 18:48:47 heh i forgot how to use quilt to appliy some existing patches Jul 26 18:51:59 destinal: yeah, they called it red in the classic code Jul 26 18:52:09 destinal: I'm not sure what is correct Jul 26 18:52:41 mrvc: their prototypes may have had red buttons, perhaps Jul 26 18:52:50 the orange is pretty dark and almost red, but not quite Jul 26 18:53:27 weird Jul 26 18:53:41 i'm now ssh'd in thru wifi and the screen wont turn off Jul 26 18:53:49 er timeout Jul 26 18:55:51 destinal: ok, commited comma/underscore fix Jul 26 18:55:58 destinal: err, pushed Jul 26 18:56:14 mrvc: what cause the _ to only work when _holding_ red instead of pushing? Jul 26 18:56:52 destinal: just another one of the quirkisms.. they modify the keycode on that one when pressing red Jul 26 18:56:59 ah Jul 26 18:57:15 we definitely need some kind of mapping class Jul 26 18:57:42 hm there's no quilt patch for fixing the dialer background Jul 26 18:57:48 then we could eventually allow remapping via the mojo app Jul 26 18:58:47 destinal: ok, I'll go ahead and write it in a class Jul 26 19:03:39 so for changing the root password, what do you think of the idea of creating a profile.d/setpassword script that checks to see if root password is null and prompts for one? Jul 26 19:03:39 Alternatively, we could create a function that could be called by javascript to prompt the user to change it if it is null, but the former would be easier and work if they logged in over ssh before they got around to using the terminal Jul 26 19:06:43 hey guys Jul 26 19:06:47 Decimation-zzz: hey Jul 26 19:07:17 lol, im so screwed. Jul 26 19:07:22 Decimation: eh? Jul 26 19:07:30 i didnt wanna fall asleep Jul 26 19:07:40 now i woke up at 3 PM, and i have to wake up tomorrow at 7 AM Jul 26 19:07:43 destinal: not sure Jul 26 19:07:48 no way ill be able to fall asleep Jul 26 19:10:28 destinal: wsup my man Jul 26 19:10:48 atlanta: not much, just working on terminal. how's it going? Jul 26 19:10:57 http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/26/palm-pre-drops-to-99-at-best-buy/ Jul 26 19:10:59 pretty good just woke up Jul 26 19:11:06 Decimation: im really hating them now Jul 26 19:11:16 Decimation: whoa Jul 26 19:11:20 lol, yup. Jul 26 19:12:18 * james_ throws palm pre against wall Jul 26 19:13:29 james_: maniac! Jul 26 19:13:43 * geist senses a voided warranty Jul 26 19:13:58 you don't have insurance? Jul 26 19:13:59 hehe Jul 26 19:14:55 that guy making the advanced home screen app Jul 26 19:15:00 hes really doing a great job.. lol Jul 26 19:15:16 Decimation: did he release it publicly yet? Jul 26 19:15:21 is he in here? Jul 26 19:15:33 mrvc: just checked your diffs, it looks great! Jul 26 19:15:42 no, not public, but i got the newest beta :) Jul 26 19:15:52 is it a replacement for luna? Jul 26 19:15:56 bzhou * r10498 optware/trunk/make/py-beaker.mk: py-beaker: 1.3.1 -> 1.4 Jul 26 19:16:02 the home screen thing seemed interesting.. saw in on the precentral forums Jul 26 19:16:04 Robi_: no, it's a mojo app Jul 26 19:16:12 ... i think the next step is to change the fixed colors to per char Jul 26 19:16:33 often wanted to have a one screen I can look say in the morning to check what todos, weather and news was for today or such Jul 26 19:16:35 ie allow full use of vt100 colors Jul 26 19:16:39 yeah, its still an early beta, but a lot of stuff is functioning quite well. Jul 26 19:16:57 zomg: yup, it has that :) Jul 26 19:17:19 is he waiting to put it in the app catalog? Jul 26 19:17:30 Decimation: he should just release it for testing. releasing early and often is the best way to get feedback and improvements. closed-door stuff is very limiting Jul 26 19:17:37 Zuchmir2: cool Jul 26 19:17:39 Decimation: for some reason his youtube vid about it doesn't work for me because of copyright restrictions :P Jul 26 19:17:56 Zuchmir2: yep, that sounds like a good change Jul 26 19:18:01 the guy who made the tetris app forces you to pay now to dl Jul 26 19:18:07 the app doesn't even play like tetris Jul 26 19:18:10 zomg: idk your problem.. the video made me completely understand the app :P Jul 26 19:18:11 it's slow as hell Jul 26 19:18:19 Zuchmir2: I think the colors would be stored in charbuffer Jul 26 19:18:29 Decimation: youtube just hates Finland probably :p Jul 26 19:18:32 mrvc: yeah, me too Jul 26 19:18:34 Zuchmir2: at least color codes Jul 26 19:18:53 mrvc: how many colors does the ansi standard support? I'm a little rusty on that part Jul 26 19:19:06 destinal: well, typically just 8 Jul 26 19:19:12 Decimation: oh wait, I think the clip was a rickroll... no wonder it wouldn't work :P Jul 26 19:19:27 zomg: yeah, it was, still, fine by me :) Jul 26 19:19:36 james_: the 2.5 version is still available for download of the tetris app, i like it Jul 26 19:19:37 lmao, they're going after rickroll videos for copyright infringement now? Jul 26 19:19:39 also, instead of: FontGlyph glyph(_font,c); Jul 26 19:19:39 if (!glyph.isValid()) { Jul 26 19:19:39 , why not simply if(!_font.isValidGlyph(c)) Jul 26 19:19:42 destinal: but some terminals support stand-out variations which are brighter Jul 26 19:19:47 just have to use the keyboard Jul 26 19:20:11 Decimation, yeah i know Jul 26 19:20:15 i thought he was doing a good job Jul 26 19:20:21 as far as looks Jul 26 19:20:32 but the app runs slow and doesn't feel like tetris yet Jul 26 19:20:40 so i didn't want to pay for it :P Jul 26 19:20:43 Zuchmir2: yep, that is fine -- then make it an assert Jul 26 19:21:05 james_: the tetris app is slow? o_O Jul 26 19:21:17 didn't try it but it would seem weird if it is unless he screwed something up Jul 26 19:21:19 james_: im not paying for any beta app... lol, if they wanna let me test, i dont stop em, but thats it :) Jul 26 19:21:26 g++ -MD -Wall -DXP_UNIX=1 -fPIC -O2 -DNDEBUG -c -o pty.o pty.c Jul 26 19:21:26 pty.c: In function âint ptys_open(int, char*)â: Jul 26 19:21:26 pty.c:167: warning: ignoring return value of âint chown(const char*, __uid_t, __gid_t)â, declared with attribute warn_unused_result Jul 26 19:21:39 zomg, the one i played with was Jul 26 19:21:53 i can play 1 game of tetris for hours Jul 26 19:22:01 Zuchmir2: interesting Jul 26 19:22:05 I just wrote an app which draws a character and animates it, uses accelerometer to move him etc., and it was perfectly smooth Jul 26 19:22:13 it needs to feel perfect Jul 26 19:22:15 hard to imagine tetris being slow after that.. unless there's something wrong with it obviously Jul 26 19:22:20 geist: do you use qemu-arm to emulate a cortex-a8 and run the arm build of webOS? it seems like an x86 simulator would be limiting Jul 26 19:22:36 it doesnt feel slow to me guys, but i havent tried using the on-screen buttons. Jul 26 19:22:56 what I wonder is why there's no beagle support Jul 26 19:23:08 Clip of my app =) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2HpcwnM9wI Jul 26 19:23:13 Decimation, so the home screen app runs on top of everything? Jul 26 19:23:25 it replaces the original home screen? Jul 26 19:23:30 james_: its just another app. Jul 26 19:23:47 ugh Jul 26 19:23:57 but allows control of contacts, quick cal settings, 6 different launcher buttons, news feeds, weather, todo list Jul 26 19:24:02 that is NOT what i thought it was when i saw the screenshot Jul 26 19:24:03 and im sure much more will come Jul 26 19:24:17 james, Decimation: no reason you couldn't launch it from a modified pinlock screen Jul 26 19:24:19 im sure he is going to expand on the idea of making it replace the home screen Jul 26 19:24:27 destinal: nope Jul 26 19:24:37 destinal: i believe he plans to do so Jul 26 19:24:49 just doesnt want to while its just for beta testers Jul 26 19:24:52 geist: is there some lack of functionality in qemu then? Jul 26 19:24:53 the desktop should be customizable, like a computer Jul 26 19:24:58 dunno Jul 26 19:25:14 the x86 thing works fine, and it keeps us honest, stuff has to build on x86 still Jul 26 19:25:17 Maybe I should post my missile command clone on precentral Jul 26 19:25:28 Already put it on webOSdev but that forum is kinda dead Jul 26 19:25:41 geist: being able to use standard virtualbox builds IS a nice thing Jul 26 19:25:42 i think the prblem is either you emulate the hardware to a tee, or you have a special build Jul 26 19:25:53 if you have a special build, then may as well just go build something easy to deal with Jul 26 19:26:00 zomg: would you happen to know anything about making a google voice app? Jul 26 19:26:12 Nope, sorry Jul 26 19:26:23 geist: makes sense, probably a lot easier to manage another build than get all the hardware emulated accurately. Jul 26 19:26:39 lol, i really just need to learn javascript Jul 26 19:26:50 its funny, i put so much time into learning c#, c++, and vb Jul 26 19:26:54 destinal: right, and then as we made more hardware we'd have to keep updating it, etc Jul 26 19:27:00 but i cba to learn another language Jul 26 19:27:02 we just dont have anyone with enough cycles to do that Jul 26 19:27:22 for the purposes of the sdk, the x86 thing works great Jul 26 19:27:25 Decimation: at least JS is pretty easy to learn =) Jul 26 19:27:38 lol, my time is running out. Jul 26 19:27:43 though i do remember early on we were using qemu to run an arm machine for that Jul 26 19:27:48 iirc, it was too slow Jul 26 19:27:53 starting tomorrow, 7 AM mornings. Jul 26 19:27:54 yeah, that's another issue Jul 26 19:28:01 like 5x slower than the pre Jul 26 19:28:49 destinal, Zuchmir2: I've added a key manager class -- pushed Jul 26 19:28:50 i gotta shower, than im going to my girls house. Jul 26 19:28:53 cya guys. Jul 26 19:29:02 mrvc: wow, that was fast. :) Jul 26 19:31:16 Jul 26 19:31:28 Jul 26 19:31:31 Jul 26 19:31:50 Heh, just wanted to make sure I was connected. Jul 26 19:32:05 * geist gives a thumbs up Jul 26 19:32:11 geist, what did thatdude say? i think he got disconnected Jul 26 19:32:20 he said Jul 26 19:32:21 Jul 26 19:32:27 lol @ james_ Jul 26 19:32:30 lol Jul 26 19:33:34 destinal: are you looking into multi-card support? Jul 26 19:34:01 geist: does the pre kernel run on beagleboard? Jul 26 19:34:02 mrvc-bbl: adding the gesture hold stuff first and then that Jul 26 19:34:20 destinal: ok -- going out for a while Jul 26 19:34:46 Hey, any of you guys have the touchstone charger? Jul 26 19:35:12 tmzt: i doubt it Jul 26 19:35:20 hey all I have made some cosmetic changes to a few pages beginning on this page http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Patches_to_webOS Jul 26 19:35:27 I bought it yesterday and left my phone charging. Woke me up this morning because it was making a sound as if I was getting a message. Jul 26 19:35:29 because of modem or something else? Jul 26 19:35:37 the peripherals are different Jul 26 19:35:46 I think it will help people locate what they are looking for and using the info on the sub pages Jul 26 19:35:47 ah, okay Jul 26 19:35:55 wouldn't be hard to mash it into place Jul 26 19:36:04 haha StoneRyno_ i was just viewing that page Jul 26 19:36:09 just the shipping kernel binary will probably not Jul 26 19:36:17 since I don't have bb either tha doesn't help, I'm trying to see how the open parts would work Jul 26 19:36:19 i have it in two tabs, 1 before and 1 after Jul 26 19:36:26 yeah, sirloin and osk* Jul 26 19:36:29 I think Jul 26 19:36:43 yep Jul 26 19:36:57 and the kernel lets you build multiple boards in a single binary Jul 26 19:37:10 yeah Jul 26 19:37:11 mostly provided you're running them on the same cpu Jul 26 19:37:27 but I don't think 2.6.24 with your patches has bb support Jul 26 19:37:35 maybe it does Jul 26 19:37:36 probably not Jul 26 19:38:02 tmzt: beagleboard's not TOO much cheaper than a pre but getting one set up as a dev system might be handy for some (especially those who already have one) Jul 26 19:38:16 yep. it's pretty cute. i have one here Jul 26 19:38:25 most annoying part of it is it doesn't have ethernet Jul 26 19:38:25 what program will play a pcm audio file? Jul 26 19:38:32 cat? Jul 26 19:38:36 I also this it will be a good idea to setup this page http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Patches_to_webOS with boxes similar to the http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Main_Page and http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux to columize the listings after they are sorted into the headings Jul 26 19:38:36 right Jul 26 19:38:45 oh, paplay Jul 26 19:39:44 I figured I'd let everyone know so that anyone who would like to help in formatting and such for that section Jul 26 19:41:08 I'm going to be getting dinner and such and I'm not sure how much editing I'll do after I work early in the morning so my day is just about up Jul 26 19:45:56 heh Jul 26 19:45:58 note to self Jul 26 19:46:16 dont choose a song for your notification sound... Jul 26 19:46:23 it plays the whole thing, and you cant stop it lol Jul 26 19:48:40 Quick question, you prefer connecting just wifi or both wifi and EVDO Jul 26 19:48:41 ? Jul 26 19:49:30 i do just wifi Jul 26 19:49:49 I think is better just using wifi for security purposes. Jul 26 19:53:34 tlz: lol Jul 26 19:54:24 yeah haha Jul 26 19:54:32 longest txt msg ringer.. EVER Jul 26 19:55:00 im getting ready to install quilt Jul 26 19:55:52 tlz, doing that right now. Jul 26 19:56:43 tlz: ever see the longest bootup sound on youtube? Jul 26 19:57:11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt1bgsvsWms Jul 26 19:57:56 is it supposed to take >20mins to install util-linux-ng? it's still going... Jul 26 19:58:23 wow Jul 26 19:58:28 no I can't imagine that Jul 26 19:58:50 I've installed util-linux and had it be pretty fast but I never tried ng Jul 26 19:59:02 tris, is that including rebooting the pre? hehe Jul 26 20:00:18 heh jwm Jul 26 20:00:31 oh nevermind, it says it's still downloading actually... the internet here is prob just really slow Jul 26 20:01:21 has anyone tried to change out the font in Terminal? Jul 26 20:01:55 tris: the font in there right now is a simple xpm file, not too hard to edit if you want to rebuild Jul 26 20:02:42 tris: I plan on replacing the hard-coded fonts with using freetype or something but I haven't used it before so I'll need to learn how Jul 26 20:03:59 ah cool Jul 26 20:04:20 and home Jul 26 20:04:30 looks like it was a busy week for the pre Jul 26 20:09:35 holy poop on a stick Jul 26 20:09:46 i'm still in my 30-day trial period Jul 26 20:09:54 i might have to return my shit and head to best buy Jul 26 20:10:15 gordian: why? to get $100 back? Jul 26 20:10:28 well i haven't actually recevied my initial rebate anyway Jul 26 20:10:35 neither have i Jul 26 20:10:47 geist - thanks again for novaterm -- it works perfectly on 32 bit windows, can't cause it to fail. On 64, when you press any key, it throws an exception. Bascially, the exception just needs to be thrown away, it's not saying anything interesting, but it keeps the term from running on 64 bit windows. Jul 26 20:10:56 umm, there's nothing wrong with $100 Jul 26 20:11:06 in fact, recent studies have shown that money is good Jul 26 20:11:12 lol Jul 26 20:11:14 :P Jul 26 20:11:33 no gordian money is the root of all evil. You should avoid it utterly. Jul 26 20:12:02 you're preaching to a choir that's already $100k in debt :D Jul 26 20:13:16 see. Jul 26 20:13:18 and because money is the root of all evil, girls are evil: http://www.girlspoke.com/2006/12/07/the-root-of-all-evil/ Jul 26 20:13:26 yeah i love that one Jul 26 20:13:39 100K in debt, and what did it get you... Debt. Jul 26 20:13:44 :-) Jul 26 20:14:10 Rick__: what exception is it? Jul 26 20:14:11 actually it got me a law degree Jul 26 20:14:42 speaking of debt I just got a letter saying I owe my library 148.95 :/ Jul 26 20:14:45 WTF? Jul 26 20:14:54 lol Jul 26 20:15:45 now I have to take a whole afternoon off from playing with my pre, and go to the library and dispute this Jul 26 20:15:56 :( STUPID MONDAYS Jul 26 20:15:59 :( Jul 26 20:16:02 :( Jul 26 20:29:05 from the git://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications.git I tried to apply the /opt/src/modifications/luna/enable-dev-mode-icon.patch but this is what I get as output when using quilt push to apply it Jul 26 20:29:30 Applying patch /opt/src/patches/enable-dev-mode-icon.patch patching file usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.devmodeswitcher/appinfo.json Hunk #1 FAILED at 5. 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- rejects in file usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.dev modeswitcher/appinfo.json Patch /opt/src/patches/enable-dev-mode-icon.patch does not apply (enforce with - f) Jul 26 20:29:52 holy shnikes, i'm off to best buy! Jul 26 20:33:26 what does it cost? Jul 26 20:37:20 $99 with two year contract Jul 26 20:40:29 is there a way to view the apps listed on the prebrew feed in a browser on the desktop so I don't have to run "ipkg -o /var list" from the phone to see the latest versions? Jul 26 20:40:51 WillJitsu: preware? sure Jul 26 20:40:58 sorry preware Jul 26 20:41:05 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/ Jul 26 20:41:29 all is for mojo apps, the other two directories are used for native code, plugins, etc Jul 26 20:41:58 got it Jul 26 20:42:09 so 0.1.1 and 0.1.3 exist for terminal. any reason for that? Jul 26 20:42:40 at the moment historical versions are there for terminal and termplugin Jul 26 20:43:24 at first we weren't updating terminal's version number when we didn't change its mojo code, and if only the termplugin library updated and the mojo app didn't, their version numbers wouldn't match Jul 26 20:43:38 right Jul 26 20:43:39 people got confused by that so we always make them match now Jul 26 20:43:49 so if i updated now, it would grab 0.1.3? Jul 26 20:44:07 yes, see http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all/Packages Jul 26 20:44:45 that's the one listed now so that is what would you would get if you ipkg -o /var upgrade; ipkg -o /var update Jul 26 20:44:59 err reverse that Jul 26 20:45:04 ok cool Jul 26 20:46:35 look like there should be another important release tonight.. development on terminal is moving quickly Jul 26 20:47:27 destinal1: if I download an app from the precentral forum link that is also on the preware.org package list, will it update by running the "ipkg -o /var upgrade" or does it need to be initially installed from preware.org? Jul 26 20:48:58 WillJitsu: I don't think it will, but I'm not sure Jul 26 20:49:14 how do apps get added to that list? Jul 26 20:50:47 WillJitsu: you can submit them, preware is built with makefiles and they can be edited in our git repository -- we're working on a better process to make it even easier than that also Jul 26 20:51:19 ok cool Jul 26 20:53:09 WillJitsu: see http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/preware Jul 26 20:53:44 (for the current setup) Jul 26 20:55:49 Is there any OTR support in the chat client? Jul 26 20:56:04 Just got a Pre, by the way. :-) Jul 26 20:56:56 how the heck do i end a call that's on hold without ending the current call i'm on? Jul 26 20:57:02 can you replace libpurple? Jul 26 20:57:10 quotemstr_: did you get the $99 bestbuy deal? Jul 26 20:57:11 gordian: can't Jul 26 20:57:17 uhhh Jul 26 20:57:22 that's a bit retarted Jul 26 20:57:24 I didn't know about it. I got the $199 deal. Jul 26 20:57:26 Darn. Jul 26 20:57:35 gordian: limitation of CDMA unfortunately Jul 26 20:57:39 quotemstr_: ah, maybe the $99 wasn't everywhere Jul 26 20:57:41 what? Jul 26 20:57:44 seriously? Jul 26 20:57:51 that's not even a software thing? Jul 26 20:57:55 gordian: nope Jul 26 20:57:57 grrr Jul 26 20:58:08 tmzt: sure, why not? Jul 26 20:58:19 gordian: had the exact same issue with my Blackberry Jul 26 20:58:40 tmzt: the trickier thing to replace is libpurple-adapter service. it's on the OSS site but palm left out some source code so it doesn't build Jul 26 20:58:45 well the blackberry itself is one big issue Jul 26 20:59:22 Wait -- this thing uses libpurple? Jul 26 20:59:23 That's amazing. Jul 26 20:59:40 quotemstr_: yup, smart thinking by the palm guys Jul 26 21:00:05 palm, my favorite company :) Jul 26 21:00:14 hopefully they'll fix the GPL license compliance issue Jul 26 21:00:33 their opensource email address is pretty responsive generally Jul 26 21:00:40 my favorite company is playboy Jul 26 21:00:42 heh Jul 26 21:01:04 http://opensource.palm.com/1.1.0/index.html Jul 26 21:01:18 xcomp: yes, that's the site I was referring to Jul 26 21:01:40 and there is a reference to it on the libpurple web page as well Jul 26 21:02:07 xcomp: their libpurple-adapter service is derived from (links with) libpurple. they've posted it but it's missing needed external components and won't build Jul 26 21:02:10 destinal: I'm curious about how the interface works. Did they package libpurple up as an NPAPI plugin? Jul 26 21:02:27 I can already instant message in terminal on my pre :) Jul 26 21:03:25 quotemstr_: no, they wrap libpurple in a service daemon that talks over dbus. it's accessed via their Service mechanism in Mojo apps Jul 26 21:04:07 destinal: is it necessary to logout using "exit" when I'm done using terminal or can I just close the app while logged in? Jul 26 21:04:31 WillJitsu: definitely exit. we don't kill processes on card destroy in the current version. Jul 26 21:04:49 ctrl+d doesn't exit btw Jul 26 21:04:50 hehe Jul 26 21:04:52 destinal: cool thanks Jul 26 21:05:02 it just closes the shell Jul 26 21:05:09 jwm: control-d is the same as "exit" though Jul 26 21:05:21 after doing either the card still needs destroyed, we don't assume you want to Jul 26 21:05:45 ohh ok, so the process only stays in memory if you don't exit the shell Jul 26 21:05:52 jwm: correct Jul 26 21:06:02 you could kill it with killall then though :) Jul 26 21:06:09 You don't understand how giddy I am about having a hackable POSIX OS on a phone. :-) Jul 26 21:06:22 everyone is Jul 26 21:06:28 jwm: YOU can Jul 26 21:06:47 jwm: we don't want to use killall on card destroy, mass carnage would ensue Jul 26 21:06:53 I want to hack in font shadow and backgrounds into terminal Jul 26 21:07:02 get something like Eterm or mrxvt :) Jul 26 21:07:15 jwm: first you'll want real font support like freetype or something Jul 26 21:07:25 right now we have a manually crafted xpm (bitmap) Jul 26 21:07:44 I was looking at the source Jul 26 21:07:48 I guess I didn't get that far Jul 26 21:07:55 check out font.xpm Jul 26 21:07:56 you don't draw in javascript? Jul 26 21:08:05 jwm: no we're drawing in c++ code Jul 26 21:08:15 ohhh Jul 26 21:08:18 nevermind then Jul 26 21:08:19 hehe Jul 26 21:08:28 that'd be a PITA Jul 26 21:08:42 I've actually considered doing a terminal in mojo, the approach would have some advantages Jul 26 21:08:43 I might still do my local ajax terminal app idea then heh Jul 26 21:08:51 non-mojo Jul 26 21:08:57 ugh Jul 26 21:08:59 don't hurt me :) Jul 26 21:09:34 I wonder whether X11 would run on this thing... :-) Jul 26 21:09:38 you could port the ajax terminals to mojo and then make calls to a plugin or service that handles the terminal management, and just send / receive Jul 26 21:09:50 quotemstr_: sure, why not? just kill luna Jul 26 21:10:02 Ah, that's what the windowing system is called. Jul 26 21:10:07 yes Jul 26 21:10:33 it's not so far different from openmoko besides the luna related stuff Jul 26 21:10:40 destinal: yeah, I was going to use APE Jul 26 21:10:46 so guys, how far away from an on-device GUI installer Jul 26 21:10:53 they have one Jul 26 21:11:04 not that file coaster thing or w.e Jul 26 21:11:14 i mean something that list the apps in the gui Jul 26 21:11:14 destinal I got distracted. Jul 26 21:11:16 has info Jul 26 21:11:18 updates. Jul 26 21:11:19 etc. Jul 26 21:11:21 right, we want a preware gui installer, not sure who's working on such a thing Jul 26 21:11:30 Templarian PuffTheMagic and I are Jul 26 21:11:37 I are working on the mojo part Jul 26 21:11:40 and it's slow going Jul 26 21:11:44 oh ok, I thought you were mostly working on the service components for it Jul 26 21:11:48 because I keep getting calle daway fro the computer. Jul 26 21:11:54 or the submission stuff Jul 26 21:11:55 Nope. Not capable of doing the service bits Jul 26 21:12:21 actually, when it comes to the plugin part, I'm going to hand you a tight spec. Jul 26 21:12:51 but basically, all it's going to have to do is pass parameters to ipkg on the machine. Jul 26 21:12:53 sounds good Jul 26 21:12:58 Everything else is talking to the repository Jul 26 21:13:16 so it's a tiny tiny tiny tiny plugin Jul 26 21:13:45 maybe they should port that multiple mouse version of X to the pre Jul 26 21:13:46 heh Jul 26 21:13:48 Keep in mind that I'm coming from Symbian, a private, proprietary, drive-letter-infused hell. :-) Jul 26 21:14:15 quotemstr_: welcome to a better world, then :) Jul 26 21:15:01 not totally open, but not that bad. Jul 26 21:15:28 destinal: At least you distribute modifications in patch form. It's like qmail. Jul 26 21:15:31 It could be a lot worse. Jul 26 21:15:38 and I guess we're making it more open by the day, aren't we? :) Jul 26 21:15:43 (Old qmail, that is.) Jul 26 21:16:09 Plus, I wrote espresso-mode for Emacs, so Javascript has a special place on my machine. :-) Jul 26 21:16:46 quotemstr_: ah, no alt or meta or hyper in our terminal app at this point, sorry :P Jul 26 21:16:58 destinal: Emacs also has tramp. :-) Jul 26 21:17:11 http://www.mobiletechreview.com/tips/freedom-bluetooth-keyboard.htm Jul 26 21:17:14 I want that for the pre Jul 26 21:17:17 * raeb sneezes Jul 26 21:17:40 that looks a lot like the palm bluetooth keyboard I have sitting here Jul 26 21:17:49 thanks Zuchmir2, destinal, geist for the discussion 14 hours about about ubuntu 64-bit Jul 26 21:17:52 I'm afraid we may need to replace the proprietary bluetooth stack Jul 26 21:18:01 i added a few more notes to http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Installing_novaterm_on_ubuntu_64-bit Jul 26 21:18:06 I want to install qmail on my pre Jul 26 21:18:07 hah Jul 26 21:18:15 with mysql storage of mail Jul 26 21:18:22 see how long the battery lasts then :) Jul 26 21:18:25 raeb: gods bless you Jul 26 21:18:30 waaat Jul 26 21:18:32 replace bt stack Jul 26 21:18:38 raeb: to get HID Jul 26 21:18:44 o yeah Jul 26 21:18:51 there is no hid in the stack? Jul 26 21:18:56 jwm: no HID :( Jul 26 21:18:59 just type with the pre's keyb Jul 26 21:19:09 who chose that? Jul 26 21:19:10 heh Jul 26 21:19:10 ;) Jul 26 21:19:32 jwm: palm rolled their own bluetooth stack.. not sure why Jul 26 21:19:47 power management ? Jul 26 21:19:48 they don't use the linux bluetooth stack? Jul 26 21:19:51 geez Jul 26 21:19:59 bluetooth chipset is crippled? Jul 26 21:20:13 maybe we could get the one in the kernel going Jul 26 21:20:22 raeb: all possible I guess, we'll know more when someone starts attacking it Jul 26 21:20:29 wats in your wallet!!! Jul 26 21:20:41 woohoo Pre $99 as worst buy Jul 26 21:20:58 imagine a bluetooth game controller heh Jul 26 21:21:03 ya i saw that Jul 26 21:21:09 jwm: I am. a wiimote would do nicely. Jul 26 21:21:28 jwm: get a nicely uv transmissive object and you could play a shooting game on the pre Jul 26 21:21:47 s/uv/ir/ Jul 26 21:21:47 destinal meant: jwm: get a nicely ir transmissive object and you could play a shooting game on the pre Jul 26 21:21:53 there's no ir is there? Jul 26 21:22:01 destinal Jul 26 21:22:05 ]how bout the proxiumity sensor Jul 26 21:22:08 its IR, rite? Jul 26 21:22:14 brite enough for the wiimote to see ? Jul 26 21:22:14 see my sed? Jul 26 21:22:19 oh Jul 26 21:22:22 the ir sensor? Jul 26 21:22:30 prox sensor has a ir lite and sensor Jul 26 21:22:32 err the proximity sensor Jul 26 21:22:33 right Jul 26 21:22:48 top right eh Jul 26 21:22:54 hehe Jul 26 21:22:58 problem is you'd be holding the wiimote backwards Jul 26 21:23:06 wha? Jul 26 21:23:10 point wimote @ wii Jul 26 21:23:15 er Jul 26 21:23:16 you need at least 2 of them not just one Jul 26 21:23:16 pre Jul 26 21:23:18 prii Jul 26 21:23:21 that's crazy idea using the proximity sensor Jul 26 21:23:25 I like it Jul 26 21:23:26 right, but you want to see the screen too Jul 26 21:23:27 wiimote cam must see 2 points Jul 26 21:23:34 that sounds really contorted Jul 26 21:23:35 yeah, it'd be cramped hehe Jul 26 21:23:41 well now the pre is 99 dollars Jul 26 21:23:44 you can afford two of them Jul 26 21:23:45 jwm overdrive the proximity sensor and use the pre as a programmable tv remote control. Jul 26 21:23:53 someone buy one for rwhitby Jul 26 21:23:54 jwm: and two sprint contracts? :P Jul 26 21:23:58 heh Jul 26 21:24:03 I bought the harmony 890 pro Jul 26 21:24:04 two of them Jul 26 21:24:09 I don't need another remote :P Jul 26 21:24:15 RF for the win anyway Jul 26 21:24:16 :) Jul 26 21:24:26 I hate ir for remote controls Jul 26 21:24:30 the PRE will be the ultimate remote, once someone writes a good app Jul 26 21:24:33 teach your tv 801.11g Jul 26 21:24:41 802 Jul 26 21:24:43 wonder if you can pulse the prox sensor's IR led Jul 26 21:24:44 typo Jul 26 21:24:46 ya ir sux Jul 26 21:24:59 probably not Jul 26 21:25:11 how would I create a patch for a file that already has been modified by a different patch? I mean, the line numbers would be different so will quilt compensate for it? Jul 26 21:25:33 the pre can be used as a remote Jul 26 21:25:47 easiest thing is to just do a dd-wrt router with a serial port to an IR blaster, then send remote control codes over wifi from the pre Jul 26 21:25:55 if only the Pre had an ir sensor: one remote control to rule them all! Jul 26 21:26:08 or one of those LED's connected to the headphone jack thing Jul 26 21:26:26 I got ajaxterm's enter button to work Jul 26 21:26:33 http://www.precentral.net/freedominput-webos-driver-if-palm-lets-them Jul 26 21:26:44 jwm: and if palm doesn't let them? Jul 26 21:26:51 we'll just have to do it ourselves. :P Jul 26 21:26:57 what button did you guys bind for the tab button on the pre? Jul 26 21:27:09 Quantsini: haven't Jul 26 21:27:11 will someone make a im+ like app Jul 26 21:27:15 Quantsini: just use control-I Jul 26 21:27:29 destinal: alright, thanks Jul 26 21:27:41 anyone working on an onscreen keyboard? Jul 26 21:29:31 they said if the tools are available to write drivers they will Jul 26 21:29:35 I don't think palm can stop them Jul 26 21:30:50 maaaannnn Jul 26 21:31:04 just did some mods to allow "storage" of colors... Jul 26 21:31:20 question - if I'm trying to remotely an app that'll use "ipkg" and I'm SSH'd in - how do I install as root? Jul 26 21:31:24 do I need to SSH in as root? Jul 26 21:31:38 * raeb cries Jul 26 21:31:39 ... and the default fgColor os now green -proof of concept Jul 26 21:31:50 about to push Jul 26 21:32:00 Zuchmir2: ok Jul 26 21:32:13 Zuchmir2: in the char buffer? Jul 26 21:32:14 so i was thinking, it would be pretty cool if we could just install apps from the website Jul 26 21:32:54 PuffTheMagic: that would be pretty easy but require a browser patch I think Jul 26 21:33:09 or a service that runs on some port i bet Jul 26 21:33:23 destinal: yes (and some ugly code in pixelbuffer.cpp) Jul 26 21:34:14 Zuchmir2: I forget, are the ansi codes for receiving color changes already in terminal, just ignored? Jul 26 21:34:31 this is mainly proof of concept, interfacing needs to be done from vt100 Jul 26 21:34:46 I know mrvc was adding them to interoperate with linux termtype Jul 26 21:34:47 most likely Jul 26 21:35:03 just pushed the update Jul 26 21:35:40 I have gesture area tap/hold defined as another metakey now, all we have to do is decide how to transmit arrow keys, etc Jul 26 21:36:04 all of our key sends right now are single characters but sending arrow keys requires escape sequences Jul 26 21:38:20 i'm guessing: termstate.c:308 is where color is being ignored Jul 26 21:43:31 you can set your shell to vi mode Jul 26 21:43:51 then you can use escape hjkl to go up/down/left/right Jul 26 21:43:52 hehe Jul 26 21:47:02 Darn I can't find where the script is located where the turn off was available when you press the top right hand status bar Jul 26 21:47:43 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Radio_Power_Switch - Got it! Jul 26 21:47:44 I want to turn off the Terminal bar at the top Jul 26 21:48:51 * thatdude is away: I'm busy Jul 26 21:51:20 anyone able to debug this patch? http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications/blobs/master/luna/enable-dev-mode-icon.patch Jul 26 21:51:55 I tried to apply it on my pre with 1.1 but it gave an error Jul 26 21:52:25 i manually edited the json file to do what the patch was suspposed to do though Jul 26 21:54:09 Anyone know how to use html in the alert dialogs Jul 26 21:54:09 ? Jul 26 21:54:19 The output to the screen was Hunk #1 FAILED at 5 Jul 26 21:57:45 jwm: the bar at the top is kind of a hack to avoid the rounded edges, there will be a better way later I expect Jul 26 22:01:17 which prog uses ANSI color to test that my colors are working as advertised? Jul 26 22:01:33 i'm about to push a change, but want to make sure it works Jul 26 22:01:45 BitchX has color Jul 26 22:02:32 want something preinstalled on pre Jul 26 22:02:50 ... i did not doctor up my pre - yet Jul 26 22:02:51 i dunno then Jul 26 22:02:53 Zuchmir2: good luck.. Jul 26 22:03:03 ls --color ? Jul 26 22:03:09 does that even work ? Jul 26 22:03:09 bpadalino: no, busybox Jul 26 22:03:18 tried that, it doesn't support --color Jul 26 22:03:22 ah Jul 26 22:03:36 dunno what is installed that supports color Jul 26 22:03:48 Zuchmir2: you don't need to doctor anything, just wget something, you have a terminal. :) Jul 26 22:04:10 ok, just gonna "push" it, let ppl try out the color Jul 26 22:04:31 Zuchmir2: you can also copy binaries from an ubuntu box on the emulator Jul 26 22:04:37 ... i'm guessing it's correct Jul 26 22:05:22 wondering if the emulater would run in vmware Jul 26 22:05:37 Zuchmir2: it can be made to but not well - I recommend virtualbox Jul 26 22:06:02 it's free, easy to install... Jul 26 22:06:46 that's what i was afraid of, and my host OS is running VMware, and i'm afraid of yet more collisions VMWare+VirtaulBox+emulater Jul 26 22:06:56 i install VB on my mac thoe Jul 26 22:08:11 Zuchmir2: you can run both at once Jul 26 22:08:17 just don't run one IN the other Jul 26 22:09:08 Zuchmir2: the main issue with vmware at the moment is I can't find a way to force screen size like vbox has Jul 26 22:09:43 so Luna draws directly and ends up one line what should have spanned multiple Jul 26 22:09:59 you can change the video mode in the kernel, but I haven't found 320x480 Jul 26 22:10:27 is .diff and .patch the same thing? Jul 26 22:10:34 HebrewzHammer: yes Jul 26 22:10:37 thanx Jul 26 22:11:16 I found 320x something, which worked since the length was right but chopped off the bottom Jul 26 22:11:23 maybe with a kernel hack you could run in vmware Jul 26 22:13:39 hmm this can't be rite, i'm looking at sprint's usage, and it says "data usage displayed in KB" and it says i've used 532422 in data Jul 26 22:13:50 serious, in one month i've done half a gig ? Jul 26 22:14:59 does quilt compensate line #s when two patches modify the same file? Jul 26 22:15:13 i've pushed it, please test Jul 26 22:15:49 raeb: that doesn't sound too bad Jul 26 22:16:30 Zuchmir2: will do Jul 26 22:18:02 psykoz: that pcworld.com article could have at least linked to our site ... ;-) Jul 26 22:20:45 did somone mention something about a google voice dialer mod Jul 26 22:21:36 dunno why the TERM_NORM_ATTR is not working... Jul 26 22:22:08 hey all, I've updated the wiki on ajaxtermmojo: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Ajaxterm Jul 26 22:22:47 has anyone updated to the 1.1 webos that could be able to send me the most recent notification-assistant.js? Jul 26 22:23:11 You can get it from the webos doctor... Jul 26 22:23:39 I downloaded that but I don't think it is the latest Jul 26 22:24:12 It should be, it is updated every time there is an OS update Jul 26 22:24:30 Eguy: not true Jul 26 22:24:38 No? Jul 26 22:24:45 there is frequently a lag time after new updates Jul 26 22:25:00 so where can I get the latest? I blew away my backup by mistake Jul 26 22:25:05 i guess TERM_NORM_ATTR also is supposed to be bring the bg/fg to normal Jul 26 22:25:19 DSouljah: I think the emulator is running the same version Jul 26 22:25:29 let me md5 it and find out Jul 26 22:25:44 how do I make sure that is up to date? Jul 26 22:26:19 I downloaded and installed the sdk over again, hoping it would have the latest but I don't see where that file is Jul 26 22:26:20 DSouljah: you can't. The emulator is running 1.1 so it should be the same as what's on an updated pre Jul 26 22:26:33 DSouljah: the sdk hasn't changed, it was always 1.1 Jul 26 22:26:37 as of public release Jul 26 22:27:22 The sdk emulator was 1.1 long before the OTA update to 1.1 for pre devices came out Jul 26 22:27:30 aww I see Jul 26 22:27:40 destinal: just fixed the fg/bg get reset [hopefully] properly Jul 26 22:27:41 and the source code should be in the installed directory? Jul 26 22:27:52 i just pushed the update Jul 26 22:27:57 DSouljah: you need to actually ssh / scp into your emulator while its running Jul 26 22:28:10 ok Jul 26 22:28:12 much easier than trying to pull files out of the vmdk disk image Jul 26 22:28:57 I have been using quilt to install patches, but I saw that there is an "applications" directory too, how do I use quilt to install those applications Jul 26 22:29:04 0.1.3 much better destinal Jul 26 22:30:19 Eguy: yeah, Zuchmir2 and mrvc are mostly to blame for the improvements :) Jul 26 22:30:47 Eguy: wait until you see 0.1.4! :P Jul 26 22:31:14 although everytime I run upgrade it upgrades my tip calculator lol I like 1.0.3.4a Jul 26 22:31:17 are the preferences/respawn just dummies right now ? Jul 26 22:31:23 with the period Jul 26 22:31:25 hehe Jul 26 22:32:06 bpadalino: yeah, I don't know of any code actually getting called there but I haven't checked lately Jul 26 22:32:15 gotcha Jul 26 22:32:54 haha, when the phone goes to sleep with terminal logged in as root, you get the system sleep messages Jul 26 22:32:55 awesome Jul 26 22:33:09 yup, powerd walls you Jul 26 22:33:54 destinal, is there a way to save a copy off the emulator to a location I can get to on my computer? Jul 26 22:34:42 DSouljah: why not just install the macos sdk? Jul 26 22:34:48 then run palm-emulator Jul 26 22:35:34 I'm running the emulator and I am using putty to view the file, not sure what you mean Jul 26 22:35:47 hey everybody Jul 26 22:36:17 i just found you over at precentral.net Jul 26 22:36:40 i would actually have a development request for you guys Jul 26 22:36:58 DSouljah: oh a copy OFF the emulator Jul 26 22:37:12 DSouljah: I misread as a copy OF the emulator Jul 26 22:37:26 is it possible to create a browser plugin for blocking ads Jul 26 22:37:34 like AdBlock Plus in Firefox? Jul 26 22:37:43 just scp -P 5522 root@localhost:/path/to/file . Jul 26 22:38:15 youxing: at the moment it is not Jul 26 22:38:37 hmm i guess you could manipulate the host file Jul 26 22:38:46 how come its not possible yet? Jul 26 22:38:55 youxing: hosts file is easy right now, yes Jul 26 22:39:23 james_: which tetris app is now pay for download? Not Pretris is it? Jul 26 22:39:25 youxing: webkit doesn't support the same kinds of extensions (adblock is extension not plugin) Jul 26 22:40:15 youxing: browser plugins using NPAPI mechanism are more like flash, java, pdf readers, etc Jul 26 22:40:26 yeah sorry i meant extensions ;) Jul 26 22:40:47 i think i saw one of those "extensions" for the iphone webkit browser for jailbroken iphones that actually block ads Jul 26 22:40:47 youxing: I don't think that webkit supports such a thing but I don't know for sure Jul 26 22:41:07 interesting, so maybe it's possible Jul 26 22:41:37 yeah im digging for the link Jul 26 22:41:51 found it :D Jul 26 22:41:52 http://cocoamug.com/adblock/index.html Jul 26 22:42:24 unfortunately i dont have the hardware to try it out Jul 26 22:42:31 ;) who needs iphones :D Jul 26 22:43:30 I do have a 2g iphone laying around -- I'll add it to my list :) Jul 26 22:44:20 yeah it be so awesome to have one of those adblockers... im just trying to picture out how web pages look like once flash comes to the pre... flashy ads everywhere Jul 26 22:44:46 an adblocker would come in handy. im actually living in germany, so im still patiently waiting for the pre Jul 26 22:45:50 This is the only thing I want from the app store: http://www.iappphone.com/apps/319505319/f1tm-timing-app-2009-championship-pass/ Jul 26 22:46:52 holy cow... 33 bucks for that app? Jul 26 22:47:06 well yeah it is expensive but it is killer Jul 26 22:47:22 Anything related to Apple is going to hurt your wallet Jul 26 22:47:36 yeah thats why im still patiently waiting for a pre Jul 26 22:47:56 I love my Pre apart from the obvious build quality issues Jul 26 22:47:58 over here in europe most of the people prefer to get their phones unlocked Jul 26 22:48:05 webOS is just fantastic Jul 26 22:48:24 And it will only get better in time Jul 26 22:48:39 the iphone is not really selling well because it would cost around $900 to get it unlocked Jul 26 22:48:45 * rwhitby bbl Jul 26 22:48:57 That is crazy Jul 26 22:49:10 yes i hope that hope quality will not be an issue anymore once it hits europe Jul 26 22:49:15 I still cannot believe they sold 5.3 million in the last QUARTER Jul 26 22:49:29 i would pay the full $550 dollars to get an unlocked gsm pre Jul 26 22:49:47 yeah i mean iphone is really "cool" i dare to say Jul 26 22:49:52 :O Jul 26 22:50:00 You can't say that in this channel Jul 26 22:50:26 i put "cool" in quotation marks for a reason ;) Jul 26 22:50:43 hahaha Jul 26 22:50:51 is the build quality of the pre really that much of a bummer? Jul 26 22:51:06 For me it is Jul 26 22:51:15 i never had the pleasure b4 to have one in my hand Jul 26 22:51:21 mine makes squeeky noises when you press the screen down Jul 26 22:51:36 and has a "clicky" feeling Jul 26 22:51:51 and of course can get VERY hot if there is little or no signal Jul 26 22:51:56 yeah like that blackberry with the clickscreen Jul 26 22:52:03 Yeah exactly! Jul 26 22:52:16 did u get urs on launch day? Jul 26 22:52:34 i mean ur pre? Jul 26 22:52:37 Part of the problem with making a plastic based slider with cheap materials and workmanship Jul 26 22:52:49 I got it a day before at the launch party Jul 26 22:53:05 at 11:45pm lol :D Jul 26 22:53:10 oh i see.... i just really hope that build quality will improve over time Jul 26 22:53:36 my sony ericsson k800i (btw nobody knows that phone in the US) is still holding up well after 2.5 years Jul 26 22:54:00 hope that the pre wont fall apart bc i was planning on keeping it for a lil longer Jul 26 22:54:02 :D Jul 26 22:54:08 Oh indeed I do, I have 4 Sony Ericsson phones, I still say they are the best phones in the world Jul 26 22:54:08 destinal: do u want to test my latest updates Jul 26 22:54:17 why when I try to pop a patch with quilt does it says "No patch removed"? And I know it is applied Jul 26 22:54:36 I used them with T-Mobile a few years ago on the 1900 band Jul 26 22:54:41 all GSM unlocked Jul 26 22:54:53 yeah when i was in america Jul 26 22:55:05 My W800 was my favorite Jul 26 22:55:08 most of the people i met where surprised that i had a phone that could just simply switch carriers :D Jul 26 22:55:18 Zuchmir2: sure, in a couple of minutes Jul 26 22:55:29 ok, thx Jul 26 22:55:38 The camera on the k750i/w800i was beyond it's time Jul 26 22:55:53 yes it certainly was... still takes great pics Jul 26 22:55:56 us europeans are so shocked by the fact that the iphone was locked down to only one carrier... nobody thought that this practice would last Jul 26 22:56:11 Better than an iPhone 3GS and it came out in 2005! Jul 26 22:56:13 but there is good news: the Palm Pre will be sold unlocked in Germany Jul 26 22:56:32 still exclusively by o2, but it will be unlocked Jul 26 22:56:41 yes i know... Jul 26 22:56:54 I remember paying $500 or 600 for my K750 LOL Jul 26 22:57:00 People thought I was CRAZY Jul 26 22:57:15 yeah that thing lasts forever... except for the joystick Jul 26 22:57:27 im pretty crazy about hacking and patching sony ericssons... Jul 26 22:57:49 another question apart from the ADBLOCK Extension one: Is there a file manager for the Pre out there yet? Jul 26 22:57:52 I don't like smartphones Jul 26 22:57:53 I remember tethering on it...before anybody knew what tethering was Jul 26 22:58:02 youxing: yeah it's called ls Jul 26 22:58:09 No there isn't an app lol Jul 26 22:58:12 :D i mean with a GUI? ;) Jul 26 22:58:29 my ls runs in my gui Jul 26 22:58:33 thats something i will miss from my Sony Ericsson Jul 26 22:58:33 don't know about yours Jul 26 22:58:35 Not yet but I will one of the first to download it Jul 26 22:58:54 you know what i will seriously miss about my SE K800i Jul 26 22:58:57 jwm: He means like a FileZ app or something similar Jul 26 22:59:18 OBEX Bluetooth file transfers, the awesome camera with xenon flash Jul 26 22:59:23 long battery life Jul 26 22:59:23 Yes Jul 26 22:59:31 Pre has a great flash though Jul 26 22:59:40 Luxeon LED Jul 26 22:59:46 I miss OBEX right now Jul 26 22:59:54 I am sure in the future it will be added Jul 26 23:00:05 yeah but honestly the pictures i've seen that the pre took couldnt hold up with the k750i Jul 26 23:00:14 Of course not Jul 26 23:00:21 oh yes and i did mention the file manager :D Jul 26 23:00:22 SE camera's were always the best Jul 26 23:00:56 yeah but SE stopped being innovative with its mainstream phones... they are all the same.... Jul 26 23:01:24 like all the S40 phones made by nokia Jul 26 23:01:27 The K850 had a 5 MP Jul 26 23:01:30 no uniqueness to them anymore Jul 26 23:01:40 yeah sure, but its software was so freaking slow Jul 26 23:01:51 SE was known for that :P Jul 26 23:01:54 Laggy menus Jul 26 23:02:29 My first SE was the t68i and then T610i and then K700 which was sooooooooooo laggy Jul 26 23:02:49 'Oh I had a T300i before the T610 Jul 26 23:03:17 I can't wait until we're over this smartphone craze Jul 26 23:03:17 Now the W995 has an 8.1MP camera Jul 26 23:21:50 hey Jul 26 23:21:55 has anyone heard of sprint censoring? Jul 26 23:21:59 at&t and iFones are Jul 26 23:22:07 No Jul 26 23:30:25 censoring what? Jul 26 23:32:50 who here is great with writing services and wants to team up with me on an app :D Jul 26 23:33:22 jcrawford: damn few are great with services at this point, it's new territory for us, no palm sdk, and only easy right now in java Jul 26 23:33:42 well relatively Jul 26 23:34:08 jcrawford: what kind of app? Jul 26 23:34:23 well.. who wants to work on an app with me to become better if not great with services :D Jul 26 23:34:42 jcrawford: depends on what it is :) Jul 26 23:34:48 it will not be a free app, it will be one that I would want to monetize from but reasonably priced, something like $3.99 or something Jul 26 23:35:17 destinal: PM me but the convo will have to be kept in confidence Jul 26 23:35:26 jcrawford: palm hasn't announced any support for custom services in the palm catalog as of yet and since there's no official sdk it's doubtful they will any time soon Jul 26 23:35:46 well it could be as simple as a binary that get's installed in the app Jul 26 23:35:57 yes but again, no catalog support Jul 26 23:35:58 so you could write the app in c or whatever you wanted :D Jul 26 23:36:05 so where can you sell it? Jul 26 23:36:18 destinal: that's fine so long as it was packaged in the ipk Jul 26 23:36:41 could be something like /applications/com.blah.papp.whatever/bin/service_binary Jul 26 23:36:44 jcrawford: it can't be Jul 26 23:36:48 doesn't work that way Jul 26 23:36:53 then the JS could make the calll of to that binary passing data to it for it's use Jul 26 23:36:54 bah Jul 26 23:37:00 they would have to make it difficult eh Jul 26 23:37:11 services are stored in a whole other place that you can't ipkg -o /var to Jul 26 23:37:19 they just don't like you, jcrawford Jul 26 23:37:21 well i guess it doesnt need a service i was just trying to think of a way to use one to make it faster etc :D Jul 26 23:37:28 psykoz: tell me bout it :) Jul 26 23:37:28 well with postinst scripts you could but palm likely won't accept it Jul 26 23:37:56 the app can be done completely without a service anyhow just thought it would make things more interesting/concealed Jul 26 23:38:09 but then again it could be reverse engineered :D Jul 26 23:38:11 jcrawford: you could also do it on a web service somewhere Jul 26 23:38:25 talk to it with ajax type mechanism Jul 26 23:38:32 destinal: that's the 3rd part of the app :) Jul 26 23:39:01 the app will also have an accompanying website it works with Jul 26 23:39:04 jcrawford: I'm way busy with all the pre hacking projects I'm working on, but hopefully you can find someone to work with you Jul 26 23:39:12 heh Jul 26 23:39:18 I have a million projects too Jul 26 23:39:20 all to make money Jul 26 23:39:23 that's all I care about Jul 26 23:39:24 :) Jul 26 23:39:24 destinal: not entirely needed if i don't go with the service portion :D Jul 26 23:39:28 i got ajaxterm running (on home server). how do i get pre browser to send keys right into the page, and not open the top location bar? Jul 26 23:39:52 BOO! Jul 26 23:39:53 * destinal hopes palm adds sdk support for plugins and services Jul 26 23:40:00 PreGame: hey Jul 26 23:40:07 did i scare you? Jul 26 23:40:16 I jumped, really high, sorry you couldn't see it Jul 26 23:40:28 :P Jul 26 23:40:30 Hi PreGame Jul 26 23:40:50 :) Jul 26 23:40:50 jcrawford: what app do you want to make Jul 26 23:40:51 hi Jul 26 23:40:55 PreGame: congrats on coaster Jul 26 23:41:01 and has anyone read Design Patterns? Jul 26 23:41:09 thanks! its more popular than i expected Jul 26 23:41:12 I am wanting to make a platform following PAC Jul 26 23:41:38 Pregame has a significant potential security issue with http downloads of ipks with no signature verification, but your app is definitely slick Jul 26 23:41:52 jwm if you would be interested in working on another app (large app) PM me and we can discuss Jul 26 23:41:54 s/me has/me: has/ Jul 26 23:41:54 destinal meant: Pregame: has a significant potential security issue with http downloads of ipks with no signature verification, but your app is definitely slick Jul 26 23:42:01 rather not disclose the details in public :D Jul 26 23:42:22 I think precentral should probably offer apps via https for now Jul 26 23:42:47 Stupid Units App keeps restarting my phone with fileCoaster Install Jul 26 23:44:36 Pregame? Jul 26 23:44:39 heh Jul 26 23:44:53 PreGame is 1337 for his contributions Jul 26 23:46:51 yes jwm? Jul 26 23:49:52 they're censoring img.4chan.org Jul 26 23:50:17 It's only confirmed in southern california Jul 26 23:50:25 censoring? Jul 26 23:50:32 yeah??? Jul 26 23:50:42 I haven't had any censoring in socal Jul 26 23:50:53 yes Jul 26 23:50:56 CENSORING! Jul 26 23:51:05 That's *illegal* in this country Jul 26 23:51:16 What does it do? Jul 26 23:51:17 "First they came for the pedophiles, and I said nothing, for I was not a pedophile." Jul 26 23:51:28 'it' ??? Jul 26 23:51:32 censoring? Jul 26 23:51:41 The only censoring I get is failure to send message due to coverage LOL Jul 26 23:51:49 Yeah how is the message censored? Jul 26 23:52:39 why doesn't the konami code work in 1.1? how do I get 1.1 in dev mode? Jul 26 23:52:41 should dropbear showup when i run "ps aux | grep dropbear"? Jul 26 23:53:01 Eguy: look on reddit Jul 26 23:53:02 it is not webos20080606 I think Jul 26 23:53:17 What is reddit? Jul 26 23:53:21 now* Jul 26 23:53:26 timboy_: are you sure you spelled it correctly? Jul 26 23:53:28 to open dev mode Jul 26 23:53:39 gkatsev, yes Jul 26 23:53:40 konami code should still work though Jul 26 23:53:46 konami works Jul 26 23:53:47 works for me Jul 26 23:53:49 upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart Jul 26 23:54:09 ah didn't do start... Jul 26 23:54:13 it's 2009 in the new code Jul 26 23:54:19 heh Jul 26 23:54:21 ah thanks Jul 26 23:54:25 webos20090606 Jul 26 23:54:27 I thought the konami code was ba ba start Jul 26 23:54:31 iirc Jul 26 23:54:35 Nein Jul 26 23:54:35 I remember playing contra :) Jul 26 23:54:44 nah, I mean palm got it wrong Jul 26 23:54:51 oh Jul 26 23:54:55 real konami code Jul 26 23:54:56 :P Jul 26 23:55:05 they should have made it select start which is the multi-player version and the pre is the king of multi-tasking phones Jul 26 23:55:09 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konami_Code Jul 26 23:55:12 according to wikipedia Jul 26 23:55:17 I'm on the wiki Jul 26 23:55:18 :) Jul 26 23:55:23 it was just ba, and in some games it was ba select start Jul 26 23:55:37 it also was in Gradius before Contra Jul 26 23:55:47 I believe Gradius was its first appearance Jul 26 23:56:01 ohh Jul 26 23:56:03 hmm Jul 26 23:56:04 crazy Jul 26 23:56:08 I wonder what was ba ba start Jul 26 23:56:16 any answer about dropbear? Jul 26 23:57:52 gkatsev: what's the question? Jul 26 23:58:19 gkatsev: answer is yes Jul 26 23:58:23 rwhitby: should drop bear show up when i run "ps aux | grep dropbear" Jul 26 23:58:25 it should show up Jul 26 23:58:33 im trying to figure out why i cant ssh into my phone Jul 26 23:58:44 yep, it should. Jul 26 23:58:48 initctl start optware-dropbear looks like it starts it Jul 26 23:58:53 but ps doesnt show it Jul 26 23:59:00 and it says "connection refused Jul 26 23:59:01 gkatsev: run this ls -al /opt/bin Jul 26 23:59:39 does it list files or return an error? Jul 26 23:59:52 list files Jul 27 00:00:19 ok so at least there's no problem with the /opt mount point, that used to be the most common issue Jul 27 00:00:19 im assuming run it on novaterm Jul 27 00:00:25 sure Jul 27 00:00:44 yeah, i guess that dropbear just isnt starting up for some reason Jul 27 00:01:10 /etc/event.d/optware-dropbear should be chmod 744 or 755 or what? Jul 27 00:02:09 gkatsev: shouldn't matter, it's a conf file, not a script Jul 27 00:18:46 why do people use dropbear over regular openssh? Jul 27 00:19:06 size, ram, embededness Jul 27 00:19:20 is it that much smaller? Jul 27 00:19:44 running ram footprint is half the size of openssh Jul 27 00:19:50 heh Jul 27 00:19:56 does the pre have a swap? Jul 27 00:20:05 that's why we run dropbear as the server, and openssh as the outgoing client. Jul 27 00:20:13 I don't see using a hundred sessions of ssh on the pre Jul 27 00:20:19 ohh Jul 27 00:20:31 ram is precious on embeded devices Jul 27 00:21:05 swapon brother! Jul 27 00:21:08 :) Jul 27 00:21:20 swapon flash - good one. Jul 27 00:21:35 :) Jul 27 00:21:43 swap on my samba share Jul 27 00:21:47 :) Jul 27 00:21:51 whilst you should do that in an emergency, the difference in features between dropbear server and openssh server does not warrant it Jul 27 00:22:10 I'd never heard of dropbear before palm I guess Jul 27 00:22:16 I'll be less stubborn and install it Jul 27 00:22:17 heh Jul 27 00:22:47 jwm: first taste of embedded linux? Jul 27 00:24:14 yeah Jul 27 00:24:27 though I've used qnx Jul 27 00:26:57 hey guys Jul 27 00:27:06 hi gal Jul 27 00:30:17 Epic Top Gear episode Jul 27 00:31:25 Is it possible to get transit directions through Google Maps on the Pre? Jul 27 00:31:42 Right now, yes Jul 27 00:31:52 Oh no I meant to say Jul 27 00:31:57 Not right now*** Jul 27 00:32:41 Gotcha. Thanks. Jul 27 00:33:06 Hopefully in future updates where will be Latitude and Street View Jul 27 00:33:11 there* Jul 27 00:33:22 Hopefully. Jul 27 00:33:33 In that order, preferably. :-) Jul 27 00:33:46 I'm still figuring out how all the gestures work Jul 27 00:34:14 You'll get it after a few days...then you won't be able to live without them ;) Jul 27 00:50:47 * rwhitby makes a donation to the WebOS Quick Install author: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1781615 Jul 27 00:51:03 (even though it's closed source) Jul 27 00:51:19 +1 Rod Jul 27 00:52:07 Jason is a good guy, I have known him for a while and he is just as excited as we are about the platform Jul 27 00:52:14 <|Jason8|> woot. Jul 27 00:52:16 <|Jason8|> I totally am. Jul 27 00:52:41 Hey Jason, didn't know you were hanging around here :P Jul 27 00:53:18 <|Jason8|> :P Jul 27 00:55:53 * rwhitby wonders whether we should set up a donation address to pay for future hardware upgrades of the webos-internals.org servers ... Jul 27 00:56:16 rwhitby yeah, and put it on the front page of the wiki probebly. Jul 27 00:56:24 when did we turn on mediawiki? Jul 27 00:59:08 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Special:Ancientpages says 16 July. Jul 27 00:59:08 nevermind 19 july Jul 27 00:59:18 Err, I feel stupid, but how do you go to a particular URL in the web browser? Jul 27 00:59:20 yeah, but we went public on 19 july. Jul 27 00:59:31 that's the first edit by anyone other than you or me or temp. Jul 27 00:59:48 so 11 days since creation, 8 days since going live. Jul 27 00:59:51 quotemstr_: open a new card, or back all the way to the first screen with the tiles Jul 27 01:00:00 raeb: Ah. Jul 27 01:00:17 there might be easier way, but thats how i dew it Jul 27 01:01:00 quotemstr_: tap on the title bar that comes down when scrolling past the top of the page Jul 27 01:01:09 Thanks! Jul 27 01:01:49 smartypants Jul 27 01:03:06 Now I need to figure out how to run all the programs listed under 'List Apps' :-) Jul 27 01:06:13 wiki is looking great Master Rick__ Jul 27 01:13:45 I think there's a team of about 3 or 4 major wiki editors now. Kudos to all of them. Jul 27 01:16:44 So, is there a better donation-handling site than PayPal? Jul 27 01:21:22 I normally see donations done through PayPal Jul 27 01:27:26 rwhitby not really. Jul 27 01:27:41 paypal's the only really effective way for random people to send random small amounts. Jul 27 01:27:49 every other effort to set something up has failed. Jul 27 01:31:44 Eguy: Templarian, Hopspitfire, X1011, imop45, hattczek deseve the credit Jul 27 01:42:30 destinal: hey you around? Jul 27 01:43:17 WillJitsu: here Jul 27 01:43:25 destinal: is comma not working in Terminal? Jul 27 01:43:37 WillJitsu: it is in the git repository :) Jul 27 01:43:50 we should have another release tonight I guess Jul 27 01:44:02 ok cool. just need to be able to do "mount -o remount,rw / Jul 27 01:44:04 " Jul 27 01:44:05 :) Jul 27 01:44:18 anyone know: does mount -o remount -o rw / work as well ? Jul 27 01:45:01 destinal: I think so Jul 27 01:45:15 WillJitsu: try that, no commas needed Jul 27 01:45:19 ok thanks Jul 27 01:58:56 howdy guys. Jul 27 02:02:40 Decimation: hey Jul 27 02:02:51 destinal: whats going onn? Jul 27 02:05:31 Decimation: improving terminal (looking at implementing multiple terminal cards and supporting arrow keys right now), playing with debian images and chrooting to them on the pre, tentatively poking at the idea of webOS running on a physical x86 pc. Jul 27 02:05:34 not much :P Jul 27 02:06:21 i wish i was as imaginative as you guys around here, i never have good ideas. Jul 27 02:09:13 i am sure you have ideas Jul 27 02:13:46 destinal, Zuchmir2: how's it going? Jul 27 02:14:03 mrvc: hey mrvc! going well.. Jul 27 02:14:39 destinal: cool Jul 27 02:14:53 destinal: I see green text -- reminds me of the good old days Jul 27 02:15:21 green text is good Jul 27 02:15:23 :) that's a test from Zuchmir2, he has color attributes on text in the buffer now.. Jul 27 02:15:25 mrcv: that was to get a change of pace :-) Jul 27 02:15:50 Zuchmir2: yep! nice Jul 27 02:15:52 Zuchmir2: did you say you have ANSI color codes being handled too? Jul 27 02:16:08 i tried to, try it out and see Jul 27 02:16:34 mrvc: chroot your debian image in the term and try color ls Jul 27 02:16:37 i tried a few color commands and they worked Jul 27 02:17:17 does high ascii work in the terminal ? Jul 27 02:17:29 only 32-127 Jul 27 02:17:32 ah Jul 27 02:17:50 no ascii art on the pre then :( Jul 27 02:17:52 did not implement bold/italics/strikethrough/etc Jul 27 02:18:05 but for the moment saving the flags Jul 27 02:18:56 the reverse color/bright colors not working, the only thing actually implemented was the normal fg/bg color Jul 27 02:19:54 ah Jul 27 02:20:02 still slick Jul 27 02:20:36 there are 2 places that the default colors are hard-coded, to bg=0, fg=2 Jul 27 02:26:50 destinal: trying it now Jul 27 02:30:45 Zuchmir2, destinal: looking good Jul 27 02:31:21 mrvc: cool, now I'll need to come up with a wiki doc on installing a proper LS and configuring color (assuming there isn't one already) Jul 27 02:31:49 do we want to add a configuration item for default font color? Jul 27 02:32:04 ie an exposed function in the plugin and add preferences to the mojo app? Jul 27 02:32:25 or actually object properties of the plugin would be better Jul 27 02:33:30 destinal: i would think so Jul 27 02:34:06 much better in JS, that way that can be a item in the prefs (as well as # of lines to scroll) Jul 27 02:34:18 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/How_To_Use_%22ls%22_In_Color Jul 27 02:34:29 so the howto's already there Jul 27 02:35:23 Zuchmir2, destinal: so what is the work in progress? Jul 27 02:35:55 Zuchmir2, destinal: anyone working on multiple cards? Jul 27 02:36:39 mrvc: I was looking into it but my mojo is weak (stages and scenes etc) Jul 27 02:36:52 I suppose I should continue that Jul 27 02:37:14 I also set up the metakey for the gesture area so all we need now is to map some arrow keys for instance Jul 27 02:37:38 do we transmit any escape sequences now? arrow keys are h j> etc Jul 27 02:38:05 destinal: not currently Jul 27 02:38:07 I can add that Jul 27 02:38:40 ok then arrow keys should be easy after that, Jul 27 02:39:28 i thought up was [[A or something similar to that Jul 27 02:41:01 yeah Jul 27 02:41:14 in llinux Jul 27 02:41:39 is terminal emulation odular? Jul 27 02:42:00 it needs like a reverse termios/termcap Jul 27 02:43:39 you have to be careful with font color Jul 27 02:44:02 maybe the best way to approac it is to treat it as a escape sequence on reset Jul 27 02:44:13 and reset when initializing the terminal Jul 27 02:44:55 but esc should always be able to override the colors or you break some bash prompts and curses programs Jul 27 02:47:54 destinal, mrvc, Zuchmir2: when should we plan for Terminal 0.1.4 ? Jul 27 02:49:31 rwhitby: I'm content with the "release often" approach if you don't think people will get jaded to it and stop upgrading Jul 27 02:49:58 looks like we have some changes worth pushing tonight, though maybe a few hours off Jul 27 02:50:03 i, for one, am looking forward to a nice green font! Jul 27 02:50:04 rwhitby: I think we could make another release tonight. It seems like things are progressing without breaking anything. Jul 27 02:50:24 * destinal crosses his fingers. Jul 27 02:50:24 A question for the community - if we were to set up a webos-internals-announce mailing list, and assuming we don't want the admin overhead of hosting it ourselves, where should we host it? Google Groups? Jul 27 02:51:15 I'm not really familiar with the options but google groups seems decent overall Jul 27 02:53:45 Heh. I didn't realize the launcher also scrolled to the right. :-) Jul 27 02:54:04 rwhitby: Google Groups works. I'd recommend staying away from Yahoo groups -- they're a huge pain in the ass. Jul 27 02:54:17 But that's my two cents. :-) Jul 27 02:57:26 Wow: unlike my N95, the Pre doesn't randomly reboot when trying to use wifi. Jul 27 02:58:33 talk about a feature Jul 27 02:58:51 You mean the lack of a feature? I demand crashing. Jul 27 02:58:54 :-) Jul 27 02:59:54 hehe **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jul 27 02:59:57 2009