**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 10 02:59:57 2009 Aug 10 03:00:18 rwhitby: it's possible that the messagebus user and group is created when dbus is installed, and that the avahi user/group needs to be created /in addition/ Aug 10 03:00:19 Has anyone preformed a device erase via their online palm profile? I initaited the erase, now my pre has been on a boot screen for at least a half hour, does that sound normal? Aug 10 03:00:53 MLJones8: I've wiped with WebOS Doctor, but not via the online thing Aug 10 03:00:56 JackieRipper: that's plausible Aug 10 03:01:41 JackieRipper: does data.tar.gz contain any scripts in /opt/etc/init.d/ ? Aug 10 03:02:03 I tried the webos doctor first; however I it wasn't recognizing my pre. I guess theres not much for me to do at this point rather than wait it out. Aug 10 03:02:33 rwhitby: no, opt/etc contains avahi and dbus-1 Aug 10 03:04:09 MLJones8: if it doesn't work, you can try the doctor again... pull the battery, and then hold the up volume button while reinserting the battery before connecting it to your computer Aug 10 03:05:14 Jackie, thanks I'll give that a shot if nothing changes in the next 20 mins or so. Aug 10 03:06:52 MLJones8: Be prepared for a call to sprint if you use the doctor, though. I had to call them after using it... it looks like the network settings aren't correct in the 1.1 image. I was unable to complete activation. The sprint tech support guy had me reset the phone, using some hash, to 1.0, then upgrade to 1.1. Aug 10 03:07:28 I wish I had written down the instructions Aug 10 03:07:43 I was at a payphone talking to them, as I don't have a landline Aug 10 03:08:36 Hopefully that won't be the case for me, as I will not have time to mess with that tomorrow morning. Aug 10 03:09:01 Thanks for the mention though. Aug 10 03:09:41 after entering my email address and password, it said it couldn't activate because I was out of service range. It told me to move to my provider's service area and try again. Aug 10 03:17:51 * rwhitby posts http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1814942 Aug 10 03:18:21 We have the repositories all lined up for open access. Now it's time to work on the installer application authors. Aug 10 03:23:03 rwhitby is the goal to have a cydia style distro for the pre? Aug 10 03:23:17 Cokedealer: ipkg is already that. Aug 10 03:24:13 it seems the app installer authors just haven't realised that yet, or have other motives for not using the ipkg feed standard that has been around for over 5 years in the embedded world and used on nslu2-linux, openwrt, openembedded, openmoko, .... Aug 10 03:25:37 hmm Aug 10 03:26:06 So do you think one day we can use our pres and access the apps, patches etc and have one click installation? Aug 10 03:26:19 we can kinda do it now, but on a larger scale Aug 10 03:26:22 yes, we are working towards that goal. Aug 10 03:26:27 nice. Aug 10 03:27:11 the task at hand right now is how to allow ipkg postinst scripts to run commands as root, without introducing a mojo to root priv escalation vulnerability in the process. Aug 10 03:27:48 ah Aug 10 03:28:36 similarly for allowing a mojo app to install a new feed. to easy to social engineer a user to install a rogue feed. Aug 10 03:29:14 the current idea is to have a secure user informed consent service, which shows the user what is going to happen and asks for consent. Aug 10 03:29:29 this must be done in a way such that a rogue mojo app cannot spoof the consent. Aug 10 03:30:41 sounds kinda like what vista does when it prompts u to do anything lol Aug 10 03:30:44 before all these security concerns are worked through, we can only have on-device installers for simple webos-only apps, not webos-internals apps. Aug 10 03:31:24 Cokedealer: more like when macosx asks for your password when you install a new app that requires a setup script to run as root. Aug 10 03:31:30 i would love it if i could easily install patches, i dont know linux at all and it's been a pain to do even baisc things. Im starting to get the hang og it somewhat but still a pain. Aug 10 03:31:43 ah that's a good idea rwhitby Aug 10 03:31:57 Cokedealer: yeah, we need to work out how to do things properly first, and then make them convenient. Aug 10 03:32:09 you can't put convenience ahead of doing things the right way. Aug 10 03:32:17 I completely understand that. Aug 10 03:32:37 rwhitby: is there any plan for webos-internals to make its own installer? it seems like that is the current app authers dont want to adopt ipkg feeds it may be the only option. Aug 10 03:32:42 Do you think the webos developing community can be bigger than that of the android or iphone communities? Aug 10 03:32:43 that's why we're currently optimising the quilt/git install size so that it can be made invisible to the end user Aug 10 03:32:56 max_: Application:Preware on the wiki Aug 10 03:33:08 ah ok, so it is stil happening Aug 10 03:33:21 Cokedealer: no idea. I doubt it. Apple has more marketing money to throw at fart app developers than Palm. Aug 10 03:33:39 i mean homebrew side Aug 10 03:33:47 like iphone has a zillion apps on cydia Aug 10 03:33:53 all made by people like you guys Aug 10 03:34:23 Cokedealer: dunno. it usually depends on the popularity of the platform itself, not how easy it is to develop for it. Aug 10 03:34:50 developers looking for money go to the platform with the most paying users. Aug 10 03:34:56 true. Aug 10 03:35:10 developers looking for peer recognition also tend to go to the platform with the most users (paying or not) Aug 10 03:36:34 My goal is to create an environment where developers can "scratch their itch" and have it available to the largest set of users, without having to go through a central gatekeeper for open source apps. Aug 10 03:36:35 so maybe the question is, do you see the pre (or webos) generating a large userbase Aug 10 03:36:55 (of course any apps that are being sold should go through Palm's store) Aug 10 03:37:42 max_: I'm just a guy sitting in Australia who doesn't even have a GSM Pre available for him to purchase. I have no insight into the market success of the Pre. Aug 10 03:38:29 GSM pre before the end of the year hopefully Aug 10 03:38:35 or at least GSM webos phone Aug 10 03:39:03 bpadalino: due to the lack of unlimited data plans in .au, it needs to have wifi too. Aug 10 03:39:11 indeed Aug 10 03:39:52 (and authors really need to understand that their application may be used when no network connectivity is available) Aug 10 03:40:27 absolutely .. but that should be part of the html5 mindset i would think - local storage, offline working, etc Aug 10 03:40:53 bpadalino: here's hoping. Aug 10 03:44:52 rwhitby: i am surprised how much effort you put into this phone vs an android phone. why? Aug 10 03:46:21 rawdaedfish: I've been a Treo users since they first came. Treo650 is my current phone, and has been since it was released. Aug 10 03:47:37 this whole project is simply a way for me to get other people to develop the apps I need to transition from the treo650 to a modern phone ;-) Aug 10 03:47:59 lol rwhitby Aug 10 03:48:39 * rwhitby hopes no-one has noticed that he hasn't written a single app yet .... Aug 10 03:48:40 hee hee, but i havn't seen too many people working on improving the pim apps Aug 10 03:48:57 that appears to be the weakest area i see Aug 10 03:48:59 rawdaedfish: the patch process is specifically designed for that. Aug 10 03:52:14 i'm honestly a little curious about their jvm they licensed ... as i couldn't find much information online about it Aug 10 03:53:22 rawdaedfish: what improvements are needed? Aug 10 03:53:32 * JackieRipper is looking for a new project Aug 10 03:54:15 rwhitby: i have not had a lot of luck with patch process. tried it a couple times, first time fine, second time, set up 5 patches to apply, one errored, now i can't clear the queue. so i just went back to hand coding the patches myself Aug 10 03:55:01 rawdaedfish: yes, the quilt process is very brittle at the moment. Aug 10 03:55:30 but please separate out the patch interchange format, from the quilt process of creating, applying and removing patches. Aug 10 03:55:57 as long as the patches are distributed in the right format, we can fix the process as we go (or completely replace the process) Aug 10 03:56:41 (this is analogous to the ipkg feed format, and the availability of installers that can handle services and plugins) Aug 10 03:57:43 rwitby: gotcha, i more referred to quilt Aug 10 03:58:31 quilt has a very high barrier to understanding, but I know of no other tool which meets the requirements of the problem we are addressing. Aug 10 03:58:36 rawdaedfish: which patch failed? Aug 10 03:59:21 and quilt doesn't even solve the problem of multiple conflicting patches (e.g. the calendar default to week and default to month patches) Aug 10 04:00:33 jackieripper: where to start... i think the forums have touched on them all. cal needs to be faster, need an agenda view, week view needs tap on block to popup appt title, instead of day view Aug 10 04:00:35 I'm starting to think ipkg wrapping of patches, applying them with just patch, and using dependencies and conflicts correctly (both for dependencies on webos version and on other patches), might be the way for end users to use our patches. Aug 10 04:01:54 that's another reason why I'm pushing application installer authors to use the ipkg feed format and to handle postinst and prerm files securely, cause then they would be able to serve up a collection of patches packaged as ipkg files. Aug 10 04:02:03 jadkieripper: don't remember which patch failed, lemme check, that was 2 weeks ago Aug 10 04:02:06 rwhitby: can quilt handle new files? Aug 10 04:02:10 JackieRipper: yes Aug 10 04:02:45 * rwhitby bbl (lunch) Aug 10 04:03:19 rawdaedfish: I'd like to fix it, if possible Aug 10 04:04:08 jackieripper: they are all missing categories Aug 10 04:04:20 huh? Aug 10 04:04:33 ohhh... missing pim stuff Aug 10 04:06:40 jackieripper: tasks is missing sorting, like show all remaining tasks across all lists, sorted by due date descending Aug 10 04:08:07 hmmm Aug 10 04:08:16 I think I can do 1 of those Aug 10 04:08:28 which, I admit, is not a lot.. but it's something Aug 10 04:08:51 I'll take a look at the week view thing tomorrow Aug 10 04:09:38 jackieripper: the pim apps (cal, task, memo, what's #4) Aug 10 04:10:20 email Aug 10 04:10:30 jackieripper:i've wanted to tackle agenda view, but decided to get to know app coding first Aug 10 04:10:32 contacts Aug 10 04:10:45 jackieripper: i'll get to it sometime this month, though Aug 10 04:11:17 I have three pre-related projects I'm working on (rather leisurely) Aug 10 04:12:06 calendar does not seem to notify me of appts, but have not tried to really track that down to the notification being weak or the cal just forgetting, most cal items i set up through google cal, then they sync down Aug 10 04:12:31 birthdays don't automatically get put into the calendar Aug 10 04:13:57 bdays and anniversaries, that would be real nice and set a reminder for x days before at a certain time of the day (not like windows mobile that woke me up and reminded me at midnight Aug 10 04:14:14 1) Complete sound control... the ability to specify every single sound, including the ability to assign message tones to individual contacts, and to disable all sounds during a call. 2) making this http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Pager_Nagger into a real app 3) and app to turn sshd on/off Aug 10 04:15:02 hey guys... Aug 10 04:15:05 what's up? Aug 10 04:15:12 where is grep? >:( Aug 10 04:15:38 bah! i should go to sleep anyway! Aug 10 04:15:42 have a good night Aug 10 04:17:52 branded: /bin/grep Aug 10 04:18:16 he left, I think Aug 10 04:18:17 heh - impatient guy ... Aug 10 04:18:24 that was a short lunch Aug 10 04:24:04 jackieripper: and memos should just abandon that post-it ui, just not necessary Aug 10 04:24:20 I actually like it... Aug 10 04:27:20 really. i mostly don't like the fact that the font size changes depending on how much text is in the memo, and the fact it doesn't sync anywhere Aug 10 04:27:56 the second complaint there has nothing to do with the ui, though Aug 10 04:28:12 I think it may sync with google/gmail in the future Aug 10 04:28:43 memos were a brand new feature in gmail when the pre came out, if I recall correctly Aug 10 04:29:54 i've tried evernote too, but the pre ui is a bit clunky Aug 10 04:32:11 agreed Aug 10 04:34:55 anyone know of an existing way for an app to check if a call is in progress? Aug 10 04:37:31 JackieRipper: probably a dbus call for that Aug 10 04:38:06 I've been scanning the phone app... I mean it has to decide if it should ring or not, right? Aug 10 04:40:16 JackieRipper: actually probably not Aug 10 04:40:38 destinal: why not? Aug 10 04:41:03 JackieRipper: when I connected to the baseband directly with a terminal, and a call came in I got RING from the baseband (like a modem) Aug 10 04:41:41 so probably the baseband sends a different response if a call is already in progress Aug 10 04:41:59 destinal: yes, but the phone app has to decide to display the caller ID info and play the ringtone, or just display the caller ID info Aug 10 04:42:01 ie some other notification of a second incoming call rather than the first incoming call Aug 10 04:42:18 hmmmm Aug 10 04:42:25 different event, then Aug 10 04:42:36 dammit Aug 10 04:42:39 so I don't know for sure, but I should say, it's possible Aug 10 04:43:02 I'd sniff dbus and make some incoming calls from other phones Aug 10 04:43:28 no need for another phone... I can just call voicemail Aug 10 04:43:36 oh right Aug 10 04:43:40 or my office phone, I guess Aug 10 04:44:02 so yeah make a call with one in progress and one without one in progress and check out what comes over dbus Aug 10 04:44:06 maybe it IS the same event Aug 10 04:45:39 I shouldn't really base anything on what the baseband says in AT command mode actually, I don't know the webos stuff actually uses that mechanism except for dial up networking Aug 10 04:45:49 - / ppp sessions Aug 10 04:50:12 destinal: all I'm looking for is a way to check if a call is in progress, so I can patch the calendar, email, messaging apps to not play a sound Aug 10 04:50:29 it's annoying Aug 10 05:01:46 if (this.lineState[0].state == TelephonyCallState.ACTIVE) { Aug 10 05:01:54 jackieripper: that would be awesome, my wife hates it Aug 10 05:04:11 destinal: smallcall-assistant.js? Aug 10 05:04:21 yeah, now how you get a lineState.. Aug 10 05:04:31 that is awesome! Aug 10 05:04:50 now I just have to find every sound... :-P Aug 10 05:04:58 it looks like lineStates are pulled in from callStateMessage Aug 10 05:06:10 JackieRipper: well.. might it not work to just change notification sound on call start and change it back on call end? Aug 10 05:06:21 otherwise you have to figure out how to pass around callstate Aug 10 05:07:03 destinal: I can replicate the function(s) that determines call state in each app Aug 10 05:07:26 except for third party apps, etc Aug 10 05:07:39 I mean having to change it in each new app you download really sucks Aug 10 05:08:05 who is to say the new app will use an existing sound? Aug 10 05:08:20 I'm thinking of the alarm clock... Aug 10 05:08:21 I mean they all call a standard notification function Aug 10 05:09:05 is there any way to just set silent mode? Aug 10 05:09:11 it's rather trivial to have your app play any sound Aug 10 05:09:34 ie as if the switch had been flipped? Aug 10 05:10:50 sadly, the tones play during a call even if the switch is flipped Aug 10 05:11:01 really? that sucks Aug 10 05:11:04 they just play through the ear piece/headset Aug 10 05:11:27 I thought someone said vibrate mode was a workaround Aug 10 05:11:53 you've tested it and it isn't, then... Aug 10 05:11:54 not in my experience, but I can test tomorrow at work Aug 10 05:12:13 or test more methodically, that is Aug 10 05:14:32 one other thing... I can set/get a preference in the db with Mojo.Service.Request... is there a way to delete an entry? Aug 10 05:15:37 what service are you calling to get / set? Aug 10 05:16:08 here's an example http://predev.pastebin.com/m37d90b52 Aug 10 05:16:48 SystemService.identifier = 'palm://com.palm.systemservice'; Aug 10 05:18:26 but I'd like to be able to remove the "alerttone" line completely from the db Aug 10 05:24:09 JackieRipper: I suspect it doesn't work that way Aug 10 05:24:14 * rwhitby announces that webos-internals.org will be going down in about 17 hours time for a hardware upgrade Aug 10 05:24:19 which? Aug 10 05:24:34 removal? Aug 10 05:24:38 JackieRipper: right Aug 10 05:24:58 I should check MyNotifications to see how it resets to defaults Aug 10 05:25:28 I'm reading extracts from LunaSysServices and I don't see any deletion Aug 10 05:25:37 there is a loadDefaultPrefs Aug 10 05:25:44 but that probably is all prefs Aug 10 05:32:37 quick q: when I ssh into my pre, I see lots of system messages written the the screen. things like "powerd: System woke up." Is this normal? Aug 10 05:32:51 aufrank: yeah, powerd is very chatty Aug 10 05:32:56 happens about every 30 seconds Aug 10 05:33:35 OK, thought I had messed up some syslog function by mucking with the avahi and messagebus users and groups Aug 10 05:33:37 phew! Aug 10 05:33:37 depends a lot on how you're using the device and whether it's plugged into USB and what your sleep timer is Aug 10 05:33:55 (still don't have avahi working, but that's another story) Aug 10 05:34:00 but powerd has been doing it all along, you just haven't seen it until now Aug 10 05:34:09 phew, thanks Aug 10 05:34:14 aufrank: is it starting now? Aug 10 05:34:26 avahi, that is? Aug 10 05:34:49 it is, but then if I call avahi-browse -a (basically a client), it doesn't find the daemon Aug 10 05:35:06 I can get the pid for the daemon, I know it's running Aug 10 05:35:12 but the client programs don't know Aug 10 05:35:13 is it actually running? Aug 10 05:35:21 oh, ok, I typed too slow Aug 10 05:36:23 and it doesn't show up when I browse mDNS services on other machines Aug 10 05:36:35 so, it's running but not in a way that anything else can see =\ Aug 10 05:39:59 destinal: MyNotifications restores defaults by replacing the path with the path to the default sound Aug 10 05:40:06 which is cool Aug 10 05:40:48 JackieRipper: does it have any really good way of determining the default sound, or is it just hard coded with what was observed by the developer Aug 10 05:40:57 the latter Aug 10 05:41:06 but we're talking 2 sounds Aug 10 05:41:30 yeah, it's good enough unless other versions of the pre or carrier bundles come with different defaults Aug 10 05:41:31 /usr/palm/sounds/notification.wav and /usr/palm/sounds/alert.wav Aug 10 05:42:03 destinal: these paths are hardcoded into at least one binary Aug 10 05:42:09 really? wow Aug 10 05:42:27 that's how you can just specify soundClass alerts Aug 10 05:42:45 or soundClass notifications Aug 10 05:43:11 and why it makes it such a pita to specify sounds Aug 10 05:43:36 ok, bed for me Aug 10 05:43:40 me too Aug 10 05:43:46 I'm up way late Aug 10 05:43:46 thanks for help on my first steps Aug 10 05:43:54 likewise... tomorrow will be a long day Aug 10 05:44:33 bye all Aug 10 06:02:50 rwhitby: ah, I was confusing ipkg and oe then Aug 10 06:03:02 but it is used for optware? Aug 10 06:03:50 kiz_: in answer to why you can't delete files via sftp, it's either that you're not root, or that you have a root filesystem that is mounted read-only (it usually is) Aug 10 06:04:09 sudo mount -o remount,rw / Aug 10 06:04:24 i run that to set to read-write Aug 10 06:04:27 yeah that should fix that Aug 10 06:04:34 are you sftp'ing in as root? Aug 10 06:04:40 no Aug 10 06:05:00 the accout i setup with optware Aug 10 06:05:14 I'd check what the permissions are on the files / directories you're trying to alter Aug 10 06:05:43 it may be that your regular user login doesn't have privileges to delete them Aug 10 06:07:21 okay i thought that was the whole reason for editing the visudo file Aug 10 06:10:21 well if you reconfigure your sftp client to sudo the sftp process you can do it this way Aug 10 06:11:22 usr ALL=NOPASSWD: sudo /opt/libexec/sftp-server Aug 10 06:11:25 will that work? Aug 10 06:11:36 yeah that covers the server side Aug 10 06:11:56 then the client needs to be configured to execute sudo /opt/libexec/sftp-server Aug 10 06:12:38 (personally I just ssh / sftp in as root with an ssh key) Aug 10 06:12:40 how would it do that? Aug 10 06:13:03 since it's not a program being run, but a service Aug 10 06:13:09 tmzt: actually it is a program Aug 10 06:13:21 tmzt: sftp is strange that way Aug 10 06:13:29 yes, but it's not run without output on stdout in the normal channel I mean Aug 10 06:13:36 it has it's own channel Aug 10 06:13:40 tmzt: yes but the client still executes sftp-server Aug 10 06:13:46 it has to actually send that commadn Aug 10 06:13:47 the client does? Aug 10 06:13:49 yes Aug 10 06:13:51 i get a syntax error Aug 10 06:14:07 ALL=NOPASSWD: sudo /opt/libexec/sftp-server Aug 10 06:14:18 essentially sftp is ssh in, run sftp server Aug 10 06:14:20 debug1: Sending env LANG = en_US.UTF-8 Aug 10 06:14:20 debug1: Sending subsystem: sftp Aug 10 06:14:34 >>> /opt/etc/sudoers: syntax error near line 22 <<< Aug 10 06:14:48 but if I run bash -i Aug 10 06:15:28 debug1: Entering interactive session. Aug 10 06:15:28 debug1: Sending environment. Aug 10 06:15:28 debug1: Sending env LANG = en_US.UTF-8 Aug 10 06:15:28 debug1: Sending command: bash -i Aug 10 06:15:47 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Setup_SFTP Aug 10 06:15:48 I left out the interactive session on the last one Aug 10 06:15:53 In the SFTP server box enter: sudo /opt/libexec/sftp-server Aug 10 06:16:02 (in winscp) Aug 10 06:16:12 okay im using filezilla Aug 10 06:16:16 so that probably doesn't use a subsystem anymore Aug 10 06:16:17 ok Aug 10 06:16:54 I don't personally use any of this Aug 10 06:17:33 I just ssh in as root with a keypair as god intended man to ssh into pre's :) Aug 10 06:18:15 where ssh = ssh, scp, sftp, etc Aug 10 06:19:17 whats the best way to keep the pre from dropping the wifi connection? Aug 10 06:20:04 kiz_: personally I come in over usbnet Aug 10 06:21:08 kiz_: but you can adjust the sleep time and I don't think it drops when you're either plugged into usb, or playing an mp3 file Aug 10 06:21:45 at any rate usbnet really is the best thing to manage your pre over IMO Aug 10 06:21:55 usbnet? Aug 10 06:22:16 kiz_: ethernet over USB essentially Aug 10 06:22:28 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/USBnet_Setup Aug 10 06:22:56 it's easy, you just run "usbnet enable; reboot" and then make sure you have drivers for whatever's on the other side Aug 10 06:24:30 tmzt: I've forgotten what we were talking about. Is what used for optware? Aug 10 06:25:29 openembedded Aug 10 06:29:57 ah, no. optware is unrelated to openembedded. Aug 10 06:32:33 now that usbnet is enabled Aug 10 06:32:48 rwhitby: okay, thanks Aug 10 06:33:45 where is the usbnet ip? Aug 10 06:33:51 how do sftp Aug 10 06:37:14 kiz_: 192.168.0.202 Aug 10 06:39:02 k, time for bed, good night all Aug 10 06:40:38 yes, we are now @webosinternals on twitter. Aug 10 08:10:29 does anyone know what the file name for the image behind the icons in the launcher is called? Aug 10 08:10:35 on the main screen, not inside the launcher Aug 10 08:14:22 this would be so nice: Aug 10 08:14:23 # stap -e ' Aug 10 08:14:23 probe process("/lib/libc.so.6").function("malloc").return, Aug 10 08:14:23 process("/lib/libc.so.6").function("free").return Aug 10 08:14:23 { println(probfunc()," ",$$parms," ",$$return) } Aug 10 08:14:25 ' -c 'ls' # -c 'CMD ARGS' Aug 10 08:14:30 (systemtap) Aug 10 08:34:08 finally, i found it Aug 10 12:17:16 anyone here? Aug 10 12:23:11 i am Aug 10 12:23:26 pulln my hair out cause my stupid android phone isnt connecting to my pc grrr Aug 10 12:23:35 lol Aug 10 12:23:39 you any good with the depot? Aug 10 12:23:45 gonna try restarting the phone Aug 10 12:23:51 i played with depot once, worked as expected Aug 10 12:24:01 ill be back in 5 though Aug 10 12:27:51 roar :( Aug 10 12:27:56 http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1125&p=4126#p4126 Aug 10 12:28:13 that explains it all, if you have any suggestions please reply tho the forum post as I have to start heading to work now Aug 10 12:28:38 craw: id use a cookie for first use Aug 10 12:28:47 because its synchronous Aug 10 12:28:52 but thats just my opion ill finish reading Aug 10 12:29:05 well i plan to use a db, just trying to get the depot to work first learn about the depot then move on to the db Aug 10 12:29:20 writing an article and tutorial about this on my site and probably a wiki page with the sample project Aug 10 12:29:59 cool Aug 10 12:30:01 whats yoru site? Aug 10 12:30:23 http://josephcrawford.com/ Aug 10 12:30:35 lol Aug 10 12:30:40 :) Aug 10 12:30:52 the other day in #android a bunch of us were pointing out our email addresses Aug 10 12:31:01 and everyone was name@name.com Aug 10 12:31:04 lol Aug 10 12:31:36 i got mikedg.com Aug 10 12:33:48 haha at your interview post, i did a handful of phone interviews Aug 10 12:34:26 and everytime i had the interviewer ask me a technical question, then insist my answer was wrong, even while i was 90% sure i was right, and then googled the answer and found out i was 100% correct Aug 10 12:39:05 off to work, later Aug 10 12:39:20 s Aug 10 13:14:55 FYI webos-internals.org is going offline in about 9 hours for a hardware upgrade. Aug 10 13:15:12 should take less than an hour. Aug 10 13:32:46 rwhitby: I think you are implying the chat will be offline, which is not likely :) Aug 10 13:38:33 anyone who has knowledge of the Depot i posted a forum question in #webos, would appreciate if you could take a look ;) Aug 10 13:56:27 nebula, holy shit you are here :) Aug 10 13:59:10 damn straight im her Aug 10 13:59:12 here Aug 10 13:59:21 fscking new keyboard Aug 10 14:01:54 how was your weekend? Aug 10 14:01:59 other than the meet-up Aug 10 14:02:26 good good Aug 10 14:02:30 got a meeting, brb Aug 10 14:05:51 FreeTim3, hey tim, you are the one who said your company was hiring right? Aug 10 14:06:17 hard to remember everyone's names from saturday lol Aug 10 14:17:25 Anyone know how to restart the dbus services w/o having to reboot the Pre? Aug 10 14:18:47 which one did you kill ? Aug 10 14:19:11 None .... need to restart them to catch the new version of my service. Aug 10 14:20:52 i am guessing it's a java service - so you need to restart that java command Aug 10 14:48:57 Hey I'm having trouble performing this edit: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_Launcher_Add_or_Delete_Pages Aug 10 14:49:05 I'm editing in nano, and it won't let me save the file Aug 10 14:49:16 however, I have the filesystem in read/write mode and am running as root Aug 10 14:49:58 Any help? Aug 10 14:50:19 control-o right Aug 10 14:50:43 Is it giving some error warning or what's it doing exactly Aug 10 14:51:05 It is just making a noise Aug 10 14:51:07 like an error Aug 10 14:51:38 and nothing is happening Aug 10 14:52:12 strange does the control-t one work, where it brings up a list of folders? I am thinking you can try saving it as another filename or into another folder Aug 10 14:52:52 did you make filesystem writable? "mount -o remount,rw /" Aug 10 14:53:04 yea Aug 10 14:53:11 sam1am: also, using quilt is recommended instead of manually editing it Aug 10 14:53:27 sam1am: did you sudo edit it? Aug 10 14:53:35 tried that, yes Aug 10 14:53:57 sam1am: tried a different editor, perhaps? Aug 10 14:54:17 the noise has to mean it's read-only or the file system mount didn't take right? Aug 10 14:54:28 gkatsev: Just tried vi, which worked Aug 10 14:54:34 I don't get it - apparently nano sucks Aug 10 14:54:57 nano does suck, but i guess it is a bit easier to use than vi, especially since vi doesnt have easy mode. Aug 10 14:56:56 sam1am: i would still recommend getting quilt to work. Aug 10 14:57:10 ah good. (I have a coffee mug with VI cheats printed on it.) <-- nErD Aug 10 14:57:23 nice Aug 10 14:57:38 at home ive got the viemu visual keyboard bindings for vim on the wall next to me Aug 10 14:59:50 FreeTim3: how goes your game, did you work on it anymore since saturday? Aug 10 15:01:02 gkatsev: That was my first try - but I gut stuck on "git pull" with "git not found" Aug 10 15:03:27 sam1am: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps Aug 10 15:03:32 did you do that? Aug 10 15:03:35 makes everything so easy Aug 10 15:03:50 yea Aug 10 15:03:56 I did that but it didn't install git Aug 10 15:04:01 I just manually installed it Aug 10 15:05:03 id recommend you try rerunning the quilt-bootstrap script, as it sets everything up for you. Aug 10 15:05:46 Someone should write a gui front end for applying these patches Aug 10 15:06:32 that would be cool, you just check which you want, restart and the phone and then everything should be applied. Aug 10 15:06:59 sam1am: how are you connected to the phone, btw? Aug 10 15:07:06 novaterm Aug 10 15:07:10 ok Aug 10 15:11:39 bzhou * r10551 optware/trunk/make/py-psycopg2.mk - py-psycopg2: 2.0.11 -> 2.0.12 Aug 10 15:16:16 bzhou * r10552 optware/trunk/make/haproxy.mk - haproxy: 1.3.19 -> 1.3.20 Aug 10 15:17:31 Rboatright wiki * r4154 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Tutorials_webOS_Porting_Older_App/example - 1 Aug 10 16:00:55 What do you think about maintaining ONE webos-internals service, rather than many custom ones. i.e. instead of things like org.webosinternals.ledservice/method, and org.webosinternals.ipkgservice/method. We would have one org.webosinternals.service/ledOn {params}, org.webosinternals.service/ipkg-install {params} etc... Allowing the user a one-time only service install for any webosinternals functionality? Aug 10 16:14:50 ework: That's a lot of eggs in one basket, especially if not all apps use them, and doubly especially if some service offers capabilities not used by an app yet exploited unexpectedly by another Aug 10 16:15:02 com.webosinternals.ipkgservice Aug 10 16:15:11 cin,webisubterbaks,iotkiioservuce Aug 10 16:15:17 whos making all these :P Aug 10 16:15:31 com.webosinternals.optloopservice* Aug 10 16:21:13 lmorchard, there are many services that not all apps use already on the pre Aug 10 16:32:03 If there is anyone around that can help with me an Eclipse issue I am having trying to install my test app onto the emulator, please IM me...Thanks Aug 10 16:46:44 The way I see it, in the current method the user has to install not only an app but potentially a different service for each app Aug 10 16:47:41 if we had one service, then many apps could depend on it, and the user would be able to install apps only after the one-time upgradeable install of the webosinterenals service Aug 10 16:48:04 And since it will be open source, there will be more eyes verifying new service methods are not buggy/malicious Aug 10 16:56:37 ework: once the preware app is created it won't be that big of a deal. Aug 10 16:58:40 the preware app will auto-install services based on app dependencies? Aug 10 16:59:13 It still will require rw/postinst for each service rather than ro ability to update the one service Aug 10 17:01:08 Is a service the same thing as a plugin? Aug 10 17:02:14 No I don't think so Aug 10 17:02:30 a service exposes a method to the webos API Aug 10 17:02:35