**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 14 02:59:57 2009 Aug 14 03:00:01 see Aug 14 03:00:04 can't trust that damn emulator! Aug 14 03:00:22 egaudet: exactly - that's why we need to be able to refresh patches on the Pre ;-) Aug 14 03:02:09 egaudet: I did a ~ s/15/14/ on the patch, and it applies cleanly on the emulator Aug 14 03:02:20 no fuzz, no problems Aug 14 03:04:14 egaudet: current webos doctor download is still 1.1.0 (md5sum fc602490fdd7b3be8c5f727349c6195f) Aug 14 03:04:21 yep Aug 14 03:04:24 ok good I am good Aug 14 03:04:35 I have a 1.1.0 barebones rootfs in git Aug 14 03:04:43 now with keyboard patch as commit Aug 14 03:05:11 Did the optware/ssh etc... stuff where did it go? Aug 14 03:05:21 I should probably put that in my git tree Aug 14 03:06:12 egaudet: it's all under /opt Aug 14 03:06:38 and a couple of files in upstart and profile Aug 14 03:07:03 how hard would it be to access the bootloader and rootfs over nfs Aug 14 03:07:26 egaudet: should be doable - I expect they probably do just that at Palm. Aug 14 03:07:49 would definitely be a better environment to develop in Aug 14 03:08:03 right now I am not confident in the state of my pre at all aside from the frameworks/ directory Aug 14 03:09:15 so, did the patch need to be updated? is it updated? if so, i could test it right now, going to sleep within an hour, most likely Aug 14 03:09:47 it is updated Aug 14 03:10:01 what changes did you commit tonight Eric ? Aug 14 03:10:04 space/backspace/enter work Aug 14 03:10:25 fairly small change but at least now it is functional Aug 14 03:10:28 has it been updated since 15 minutes ago? cuz that one didnt work for me, but let me try again, because quilt was being weird Aug 14 03:10:33 any change to appearance? Aug 14 03:10:36 oh no not since 15 ago Aug 14 03:10:44 ok, then let me try again Aug 14 03:11:12 you were trying to replace your spacebar with  's last night Aug 14 03:11:14 Rick_home, I added some funky characters for the special symbols (>> for enter, << for backspace, upside down ? for sym) Aug 14 03:11:54 post a new screenshot? Aug 14 03:11:57 I had to modify how the widget keeps track of it's information, it was only keeping track of the list: field for html and text input Aug 14 03:12:15 yes, we talked about that eariler. Aug 14 03:12:23 http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7842/browser20091308221155.png Aug 14 03:12:31 put it on forum, i'll go update the wiki with it Aug 14 03:12:50 I re-looked at the code, and you were absolutely correct. Not distinguishing between the DISPLAYED char and the char to be ENTERED Aug 14 03:12:57 * Rick_home skampers off to the forum Aug 14 03:13:50 yea for the symbols they need not care about anything but one field, but for the kb we need to carea bout all 3 fields Aug 14 03:15:23 yeah, something is wrong, i cant open it anymore Aug 14 03:15:38 egaudet: did u see my message in the other chan Aug 14 03:16:23 yea thanks Aug 14 03:16:36 gkatsev, what do you mean Aug 14 03:16:46 egaudet: it doesnt open. Aug 14 03:17:12 the patch seems to have been applied successfully Aug 14 03:17:14 the kb doesn't come up hmm Aug 14 03:17:43 hm... Aug 14 03:18:01 let me try patch process on my end Aug 14 03:18:09 for all the other patches it says "hunk ## succeeded ..." but for keyboard it doesnt Aug 14 03:18:38 just says patching file palmInitFramwork and global.css Aug 14 03:18:39 did you quilt pop -a first Aug 14 03:18:54 i did Aug 14 03:19:03 hmmm Aug 14 03:19:13 ive even tried quilt pop -a, quilt refresh, and then a quilt push -a Aug 14 03:19:29 also, quilt import -f /path/to/patch Aug 14 03:19:33 do you have /usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/submissions/191.15/resources/en_us/kbchars_fulltable.json Aug 14 03:20:05 nope Aug 14 03:21:13 ok piece of crap thing didn't track new files Aug 14 03:21:13 brb Aug 14 03:21:22 ok Aug 14 03:22:42 fixed pushed Aug 14 03:23:57 uh oh. well, forum updated anyway. Aug 14 03:24:33 that's ok, they'll never notice Aug 14 03:24:34 :D Aug 14 03:24:48 thanks, nice post, you are the best! Aug 14 03:25:04 but degree is blank spots on hw keyboard (for now) Aug 14 03:25:31 how do i remove something from quilt? Aug 14 03:25:58 since the headers of the previous and current patches differ, i cant import -f it Aug 14 03:26:19 oh, there is the -d {o|a|n} Aug 14 03:26:22 gkatsev: quilt pop to unapply it, then quilt delete the patchname Aug 14 03:27:25 perfect timing. thanks rwhitby. Aug 14 03:31:31 http://twitter.com/akumu/statuses/3300638153 Aug 14 03:33:26 egaudet: ^. yep, it works, thanks. Aug 14 03:33:43 sweet Aug 14 03:33:58 egaudet: so, how do you think we can get the on screen keyboard to display in the emulator? Aug 14 03:34:18 Now that I have a stable development area and I'm not fighting myself, development should go smoother/quicker Aug 14 03:34:19 man is it hard to write an app when you don't know what you're doing :P Aug 14 03:34:39 I can patch it for you and say screw the sym key? Aug 14 03:35:15 unless you really need the sym popup on the emulator? Aug 14 03:35:20 egaudet: just make orange+sym+shift+p+backspace open it as well, or something Aug 14 03:35:46 egaudet: I'm wondering whether there is an emulator key which can trigger it, and that emulator key does not exist on a real Pre Aug 14 03:36:51 perhaps caps lock? Aug 14 03:36:58 pause/break? Aug 14 03:37:10 gkatsev: a cross-platform key :-) Aug 14 03:37:31 caps lock? Aug 14 03:37:49 ctrl-alt-delete :D Aug 14 03:37:51 caps lock may be a good candidate, but I don't know how easy that is to detect in the app Aug 14 03:38:07 s/app/framework/ Aug 14 03:38:08 rwhitby meant: caps lock may be a good candidate, but I don't know how easy that is to detect in the framework Aug 14 03:38:27 uparrow? Aug 14 03:38:59 hey all... anyone know if there's a way to access files in the file system? Aug 14 03:39:03 from webos? Aug 14 03:39:10 Rick_home, i suck at editting wiki lol, should i upload and force replace the image? Aug 14 03:39:17 is there an API that allows this? Aug 14 03:39:25 how about I edit it for you Aug 14 03:39:29 egaudet: cant you upload it over the old picture, basically? Aug 14 03:39:36 but the solution is, you click on the photo Aug 14 03:39:37 branded: the webos quick install guy is working on a service for that I think. He has an Internalz app that does it. Aug 14 03:39:40 and upload a replacement Aug 14 03:39:46 it keeps the OLD VERSION Aug 14 03:39:48 :-) Aug 14 03:39:49 branded: (it was in a thread on PreCentral) Aug 14 03:39:53 sorta like Git for wiki posts Aug 14 03:40:00 in the meantime, you can just use the terminal to do it, no? Aug 14 03:40:24 branded -- it depends on the file and it's location Aug 14 03:40:39 The answer is "perhaps" you can do it from mojo WITHOUT a plugin or service, perhaps not. Aug 14 03:40:46 branded: What are you wanting to do? Aug 14 03:40:52 rwhitby: cool thanks... i had the idea of a message content search app, but emails are in /var/luna/data/emails/ Aug 14 03:40:53 upload new version of this file will replace adn keep old one? Aug 14 03:41:07 egaudet: yep Aug 14 03:41:09 branded: that will require a binary. Aug 14 03:41:10 thanks Rick_home Aug 14 03:41:15 so you ignore warning and save file Aug 14 03:41:19 Rick_home: i figured... :( Aug 14 03:41:40 branded: basically, an app can only access files in /media/internal OR in it's own folder. Aug 14 03:41:47 and even then, the file type matters. Aug 14 03:41:48 branded: and you will want to figure out how to stop a rogue wallpaper switching app from searching your emails and sending your bank details to russia ... Aug 14 03:41:50 ahh okay Aug 14 03:42:24 and turning your pre into a spam generating machine, and a server for porn images..... Aug 14 03:42:27 security matters. Aug 14 03:42:28 rwhitby: hah Aug 14 03:42:36 true true Aug 14 03:42:40 not Ha. Actually, we literally figured out how to do that. Aug 14 03:43:16 and so, we have had to make a new policy regarding out plugins and services that they ONLY take commands from their matching app, and we restrict their ability to what they can do. Aug 14 03:43:30 oh this is good Aug 14 03:43:33 security is good Aug 14 03:43:33 Having said that, if you WRITE a java program that indexes your emails, Aug 14 03:43:38 Rick_home: haha, is there a patch to close this? or, its just because of how the linux is? Aug 14 03:43:58 the problem is linux PLUS luna Aug 14 03:44:12 basically the trick is that whenever you add an ability to a service, you add to what *every* app can do (not just yours) Aug 14 03:44:13 if we write a service, any luna program can talk to the service Aug 14 03:44:37 and you need to guard against webos to linux root priviledge escalation Aug 14 03:44:39 So, you have to deal with your service design to handle that. Aug 14 03:45:19 So, branded if you write a java app that can index your emails, and produces a sqllte db of the emails in an app folder Aug 14 03:45:34 and if the luna app can only say "go update the email index" Aug 14 03:45:41 but can't say "DISPLAY THAT EMAIL Aug 14 03:45:50 Not many authors are considering these issues. MyTether didn't at first (until I pointed out the huge security hole to them). Aug 14 03:46:02 then mojo enforces that the sqlite file is readable ONLY to the app that created it. Aug 14 03:46:12 So, you would not expose your emails to the world. Aug 14 03:46:14 right, i'm just getting started... these are good ideas... a security strategy Aug 14 03:46:19 So it's doable. But you have to think about that stuff. Aug 14 03:46:23 rwhitby: is that present in mytether 1.5? Aug 14 03:46:35 gkatsev: I believe 1.5 is the version where it was fixed. Aug 14 03:46:44 yeah, makes sense Aug 14 03:46:54 is there a command history in the debugger? Aug 14 03:46:55 security on "inter-process communication," sound about right? Aug 14 03:46:57 Get your indexer working, then come back and ask our security dweebs (tharris, destinal and rwhitby) to fine tooth it for you and they'll help you get a service your mojo app can call SAFELY. Aug 14 03:47:07 gkatsev: he did his own restricted service for 1.5 I think Aug 14 03:47:15 i hate having to retype the line over again.. would like to just hit the up arrow.. or something Aug 14 03:47:17 yeah Aug 14 03:47:42 gkatsev: I haven't looked at it in detail to see whether it still has any holes or not ... Aug 14 03:47:42 sevesoft there is no such command history Aug 14 03:47:59 which command are you re-typeing? Aug 14 03:48:14 Rick_home: i appreciate the input... i'm glad to see that you all are trying to address the bigger issues... i've got to be able to get a button working first Aug 14 03:48:20 well, also, the 2.0 is a pay-for app, hopefully it doesnt have as many security holes Aug 14 03:48:26 then i'll worry about indexing emails into an sqlite DB and writing a java service :) Aug 14 03:48:41 good plan Aug 14 03:48:47 gkatsev: being a pay-for app probably means it gets less review of it's security Aug 14 03:48:47 (though, im not gonna bother getting 2.0) Aug 14 03:48:49 and voila Aug 14 03:49:00 i do need a hug :( Aug 14 03:49:09 ~hug branded Aug 14 03:49:10 * infobot sneaks up on branded and suddenly hugs branded tightly Aug 14 03:49:11 [[[[]]]] Aug 14 03:49:14 thanks buddy Aug 14 03:49:28 ~botsnack Aug 14 03:49:28 rwhitby: :) Aug 14 03:49:30 Rick_home: i thought you hated me... but the hug makes it all better Aug 14 03:49:33 haha, infobot++ Aug 14 03:49:34 :'( Aug 14 03:49:36 alright gents... have a good night Aug 14 03:49:53 you thought I hated you? Aug 14 03:49:57 ?????????????????????? Aug 14 03:49:58 weird Aug 14 03:50:00 ok Aug 14 03:50:11 Rick_home: everyone thinks that - it's those all-caps you use ;-) Aug 14 03:50:11 rwhitby: well, i mean, since its a pay-for app, it should contain less because the users would expect it to be better Aug 14 03:50:32 true rwhitby Aug 14 03:50:36 Rick_home: any command.. for example.. print foo.bar Aug 14 03:50:37 Rick_home: course everyone thinks the same of me too ... Aug 14 03:50:45 and hey can DARN WELL LEARN TO LIVE WITH IT> :-) Aug 14 03:50:51 Rick_home: then i want to go into print foo.bar[0] Aug 14 03:51:06 nodnod Aug 14 03:51:08 Rick_home: then drill into print foo.bar[0].baz.length Aug 14 03:51:17 got it sevensoft Aug 14 03:51:20 pita Aug 14 03:51:29 Templarian: is working on that issue this week. Aug 14 03:52:07 his intention is to have "watch lists" in the debugger interface in komodo so that on every step command the watch lists are retrieved and displayed. Aug 14 03:52:24 gkatsev: the users often don't care about the security until it's too late Aug 14 03:52:32 me, I just get tire of typing s enter s enter s enter Aug 14 03:53:34 rwhitby: i would say since it adds a wep key it makes it more secure, but unless you make the wep key like 128 chars long, and even then, its practically as if there wasnt one Aug 14 03:53:54 i should just used nebula's bluetooth tethering. :D Aug 14 03:53:57 gkatsev: yup Aug 14 03:54:15 Rick_home: you have high hopes on that time frame lol. Aug 14 03:54:21 ill do that once i get my netbook working. Aug 14 03:54:32 Templarian: I said you were working on it Aug 14 03:54:40 I did not say you would have it working Aug 14 03:55:28 if google had inserted normal gdb hooks into d8 instead of just emulating the commands we could use a gdb front end. :-/ Aug 14 03:55:29 i got an asus eee t91 (the touchscreen netbook), it came with winXP home, which sucks and i installed win7 on it, which works, but the drivers dont really work well for everything. so, I want to install winXP tablet on it, but it isnt booting from the USB drive, which is annoying Aug 14 03:55:32 but NOOOooooo..... Aug 14 03:55:38 and i cant "upgrade" to winXP from win7 Aug 14 03:55:48 * Templarian goes back to making peoples dreams come true. Aug 14 03:57:00 (if anyone has tips on this, please tell me, im gonna try to install winXP via an external CD drive and if that doesnt work i think im just going to return the netbook, though, i dont want to, i like it) Aug 14 04:00:47 happy friday Aug 14 04:02:00 gkatsev: why don't you 'brick' your win7 install w/ a linux liveusb Aug 14 04:02:33 anyone have a coupon code for the precentral store? :) Aug 14 04:02:35 edwindoebler: 1) win7 is really nice, 2) linux doesnt have the necessary drivers to run the touchscreen correctly Aug 14 04:02:59 gkatsev: not what i meant. if the winxp disk doesn't know there's an existing install... it won't complain. Aug 14 04:03:02 egaudet: wiki edited Aug 14 04:03:32 edwindoebler: no, it isnt even booting from the disk, it says remove media and restart Aug 14 04:03:59 gkatsev: -- no boot menu available? Aug 14 04:04:09 tried another disk? (usb drive) Aug 14 04:04:14 edwindoebler: yes Aug 14 04:04:40 cool thanks Aug 14 04:04:52 Rick_home: what do you mean? Aug 14 04:05:29 it's an asus right? You should be able to bring up a "boot from" menu/ Aug 14 04:05:51 Rick_home: right, i tell it to boot from USB, and i get that Aug 14 04:05:57 is it f7 or eac. I can never remember. but repeated tapping of one of those should bring up a "where do you want me to boot from Aug 14 04:06:06 esc Aug 14 04:06:17 Oh :-( sorry. well then, can you READ the drive after it boots normally? Aug 14 04:06:25 yes Aug 14 04:06:37 the, uh, "It's broke Jim." Aug 14 04:06:45 gkatsev: and you've re-made your winxp usb drive? Aug 14 04:06:55 yes, several times Aug 14 04:07:05 you COULD try formatting the C: drive and try again. Since you['re going to return it anyway. Aug 14 04:07:22 but first, try booting from a DIFFERENT DISK Aug 14 04:07:28 yeah, ill try that over the weekend Aug 14 04:07:30 like a windows-live disk or something Aug 14 04:07:37 to make sure it's the cpu and not your disk. Aug 14 04:07:41 i put linux on a usb disk and it boots Aug 14 04:07:43 linux live disk Aug 14 04:07:49 well then, Aug 14 04:07:53 you have a bad XP disk Aug 14 04:08:03 or, XP hates seeing windows 7 Aug 14 04:08:08 and formatting the c drive will work Aug 14 04:08:09 Rick_home: +1 Aug 14 04:08:10 :-) Aug 14 04:08:37 ill try wiping win7 and then trying, just not tonight, not doing anything computer stuff like this past bed time, bad things happen Aug 14 04:08:59 gkatsev: add beer. lots of beer. that, uh, counter-acts the bad. Aug 14 04:09:00 win7 on a usb stick was easy Aug 14 04:09:11 edwindoebler: i cant. :( Aug 14 04:09:17 8 more months Aug 14 04:10:07 i thought win7 was supposed to run well on netbooks? Aug 14 04:10:46 it does, but asus only provides winXP drivers and so win7 is being a bit weird, such as with brightness and stuff Aug 14 04:10:51 win7 runs decent on netbooks Aug 14 04:10:59 dell mini runs it with aero shit nicely Aug 14 04:11:09 yeah, this runs aero as well Aug 14 04:11:24 but there are still problems, nothing major, just a lot of small things Aug 14 04:11:25 any of you guys current sprint customers who's contract isn't up and can't get the pre yet? Aug 14 04:11:39 gotcha Aug 14 04:12:04 and like the asus program for power management wont run in win7 Aug 14 04:12:16 Wait a miunute Aug 14 04:12:20 heh can't win 'em all, i guess Aug 14 04:12:25 what was that quilt delete patch thing Aug 14 04:12:37 egaudet: quilt delete name.patch Aug 14 04:12:51 gkatsev: 8 more months. Wait a minute. Who let a girl in here? Aug 14 04:12:57 can we get 'man' on our phones??? Aug 14 04:13:08 i'm so lazy, i don't wanna google things Aug 14 04:13:14 like i had to google 'man quilt' earlier Aug 14 04:13:14 Rick_home: haha, not quite Aug 14 04:13:45 only 20 Aug 14 04:14:03 edwindoebler: ipkg-opt install man Aug 14 04:14:12 i just did quilt --help Aug 14 04:14:16 rwhitby: point. thanks Aug 14 04:14:34 rick going to bed. Aug 14 04:14:40 edwindoebler: note that many of the optware packages have the man pages removed for space reasons Aug 14 04:14:44 going to make bread, then bed Aug 14 04:15:24 rwhitby: that's what i figured. fixing the 'i'm lazy' part will probably be better... Aug 14 04:15:36 gkatsev: I've been beer free for 54 years. ... but it _was_ funny. :-) Aug 14 04:15:52 Gnight all Aug 14 04:15:56 night. Aug 14 04:16:37 Rick_zzz: good night. but sad about the beer. beer is life. Aug 14 04:16:46 * destinal is a homebrewer. Aug 14 04:16:51 i actually dont like beer too much Aug 14 04:17:07 prefer sake or other things Aug 14 04:17:20 anyway, making bread Aug 14 04:17:24 destinal: Rick is a Baha'i. -- beer just not on the cards. Aug 14 04:17:28 now, really. Bed. Aug 14 04:19:01 gkatsev: sake and sushi - mmmm Aug 14 04:19:22 * rwhitby goes to lunch Aug 14 04:20:17 heh comment from precentral.net keyboard post on main page... Aug 14 04:20:18 I always knew that the pre had it built in function for this, just a matter of time till it was turned on, I think that Pre has lot of funky and great functions built and it is just a matter of time till they are turned on and passed down to us to use. Aug 14 04:20:37 egaudet: he kind of misunderstood, I think Aug 14 04:21:08 sym was always on, it's just applying it for different stuff, right? Aug 14 04:21:35 heh - he always "knew" it had such a function Aug 14 04:21:49 like, positively, no doubt about it, he "knew" Aug 14 04:22:18 sorta Decimation Aug 14 04:22:20 destinal, Aug 14 04:22:26 damn tab completion Aug 14 04:23:00 ~seen mrvc Aug 14 04:23:00 mrvc was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 11d 11h 56m 18s ago, saying: 'dreadchicken: it is a separate font'. Aug 14 04:23:01 it's based off the sym popup framework, and it currently isn't too much different, but it will have to grow to be its own beast, but the sym popup was a great foundation to start off Aug 14 04:25:43 rwhitby: mmhmm, sushi is awesome Aug 14 04:26:33 i wonder how i can make my pre any more DrWho themed... Aug 14 04:26:53 i have a tardis backgroun, my ringtone is the drwho theme, the notifs are tardis taking off and landing Aug 14 04:28:07 i could exchange the t91 for another one and then install winXP tablet over winXP home Aug 14 04:29:43 bed time, night all Aug 14 04:30:07 egaudet|Away: night Aug 14 04:30:23 egaudet|Away: ill let you know if i find any bugs Aug 14 04:31:01 write em all down including any enhancements you think of Aug 14 04:31:03 :D Aug 14 04:33:25 make it bigger in landscape :D Aug 14 04:33:31 wider Aug 14 04:35:17 hello all. I have two very quick quilt questions... 1) Is there a full man page/command reference I am missing on the wiki? 2) The "applying patches" section states how to remove ALL patches, but not individual ones. If I delete a patch from /opt/src/patches quilt doesn't know it's gone and still tries to apply the patch (albeit unsuccessfully) Aug 14 04:37:23 g_money: to delete a patch use "quilt delete patchname" Aug 14 04:37:48 g_money: you could ipkg-opt install man Aug 14 04:37:52 rwhitby: thanks rwhitby :D Aug 14 04:38:55 ok...let me try that. Thanks Aug 14 04:39:59 fyi, i am a carded member of the redundant committe of redundancy Aug 14 04:40:00 destinal: what was the issue with Terminal? Aug 14 04:40:48 Zuchmir2: it freezes when you access the menu (example, to change font color) but I haven't debugged it. have you tried reproducing? Aug 14 04:40:59 If I use "quilt delete patchname" it says the patch is applied. If I do a pop -a and then try the delete it says that there are no patches applied.... what am I missing? Aug 14 04:41:25 i think it's in the mojo, PuffTheMagic started restructuring that, and stopped mid-way Aug 14 04:41:26 g_money: did you replace patchname with the name of the patch you want to delte? Aug 14 04:41:49 yes....with the full path /opt/src/patches/ Aug 14 04:41:56 g_money: no path, just name Aug 14 04:42:01 oh...ok Aug 14 04:42:03 let me try again Aug 14 04:42:18 IMHO until that's fixed, we should bring back some old mojo to handle the plugin... at least it didn't cause thee bugs Aug 14 04:42:40 s/thee/these/ Aug 14 04:42:40 Zuchmir2 meant: IMHO until that's fixed, we should bring back some old mojo to handle the plugin... at least it didn't cause these bugs Aug 14 04:44:48 gkatsev: thanks! Aug 14 04:44:52 worked! Aug 14 04:44:53 g_money: np Aug 14 04:45:11 g_money: thank rwhitby, he told me like 5 minutes earlier how to do it, lol Aug 14 04:46:39 Ahh! Well thanks rwhitby as well then! Aug 14 04:52:13 * rwhitby hopes that g_money will update the wiki page ... Aug 14 04:53:26 There's no way to enter > or < characters in the Terminal currently, is there? Aug 14 04:54:12 dont think so Aug 14 04:55:18 hiyo Aug 14 04:55:50 night everyone Aug 14 04:55:53 dug1: 'tee' and '|' might allow you to get around that ... Aug 14 04:56:25 true, but not in nethack :) Aug 14 04:56:26 hey does anyone know how to install terminal Aug 14 04:56:31 on the palm pre Aug 14 04:56:38 im trying to use terminal from my phone Aug 14 04:56:41 yes, there are instructions on the dev wiki Aug 14 04:56:44 dug1: yeah, sorry. mrvc has been away and I've been lazy Aug 14 04:57:01 hey, no worries. wasn't a complaint. Aug 14 04:57:06 thank you so much for Terminal Aug 14 04:57:35 destinal: it should be easy to implement, we simply have to figure out where to map these keys Aug 14 04:58:03 Zuchmir2: the reason I haven't done it is I think we've about exhausted the obvious or semi obvious keys for anything Aug 14 04:58:09 right Aug 14 04:58:25 ... <> could be Shift+,. but ^{}[]~\` is tricky Aug 14 04:58:41 Zuchmir2: so I'm thinking of a sym popup or a button bar on the bottom of the window Aug 14 04:58:54 i think that's the only sane thing to do Aug 14 04:59:08 more work though Aug 14 04:59:18 you mean popup menu "choose a key" Aug 14 04:59:21 bsdbandit: the wiki page says how to install Terminal - what's missing? Aug 14 04:59:35 ... or more like the kbd someone was working on here Aug 14 04:59:53 Zuchmir2: well like the normal sym key Aug 14 05:00:18 regarding a button bar, that could be a row that would change depending on what the last modifier key pressed was Aug 14 05:00:41 we draw a long rectangle with dividing lines between and characters in the boxes Aug 14 05:00:58 so either way (sym key popup or button bar) would work Aug 14 05:01:16 that probably should be done in mojo Aug 14 05:01:28 nothing is missing Aug 14 05:01:31 Zuchmir2: either or both would be best in mojo yeah Aug 14 05:01:39 i found the page im going through it right nw Aug 14 05:01:40 now Aug 14 05:01:47 bsdbandit: no probs Aug 14 05:02:06 bsdbandit: where should we link that page so you would have found it earlier? Aug 14 05:02:45 in the currecnt head, SessionAssistant.prototype._keyStatesChanged = function(gesture, red, sym, shift) should be able to do a keybaord popup Aug 14 05:03:34 ie that gets called when key-state/toggle-state changes Aug 14 05:04:23 and the question is, can we make a border around the bottom of the screen that's locked in place and has the buttons? Aug 14 05:04:27 in mojo? Aug 14 05:04:50 u should be able to Aug 14 05:05:21 oh, the q. is whether the scrolling will work properly Aug 14 05:05:40 right, will have to see. Aug 14 05:06:35 has anyone recompiled the kernel on the palm pre Aug 14 05:06:35 ? Aug 14 05:07:08 bsdbandit: PuffTheMagic has Aug 14 05:07:49 how did it go PUff Aug 14 05:07:49 ? Aug 14 05:08:18 bsdbandit: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Custom_Kernels and http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Custom_Kernels_v2 Aug 14 05:09:45 bsdbandit: check the IRC logs for about 15 hours ago Aug 14 05:13:41 destinal: just tested, the plugin-area can scroll on it's own right, and the rest can be stationary Aug 14 05:13:56 Zuchmir2: excellent Aug 14 05:15:27 on line 58 of the session mojo, i just added: -100, and in html put some random text in the "footer" area, and it worked fine (although there were UI issues - associated with calculations) Aug 14 05:15:50 ... but the scrolling worked Aug 14 05:16:48 are there any forums to discuss issues that I am seeing with the Forwarding Text Patch? Aug 14 05:17:03 i was checking the wiki page on it, but apprently there are no disucssion on that page Aug 14 05:17:19 ... but it also brings back some security implications if mojo can feed keys to kbd Aug 14 05:17:38 mirsc: the best thing to do is check the author names on the wiki and git commit log, and then look for them in here or on precentral pm Aug 14 05:24:02 the terminal works like a champ Aug 14 05:24:04 i love it Aug 14 05:24:15 thanks guys Aug 14 05:25:00 yeah it Aug 14 05:25:17 it is not perfect but IS an app I couldn't live without at this point Aug 14 05:26:22 destinal: you think you can work on the kbd thingy? Aug 14 05:26:31 same here Aug 14 05:26:33 Zuchmir2: this weekend probably Aug 14 05:26:38 i love working with the termails Aug 14 05:26:41 terminal Aug 14 05:27:10 ok, great, my JS/mojo is very limited... Aug 14 05:43:13 that's what she said Aug 14 05:47:03 Hey all, I', trying to setup quilt-lite for patching the Pre, came across an error updating optware. I think there was an opware-bootstrap.sh command I was missing, could anyone help? Aug 14 05:48:21 i haven't played with quilt Aug 14 05:48:48 Updating the Optware package database: Aug 14 05:48:48 quilt-bootstrap.sh: line 180: ipkg-opt: not found Aug 14 05:48:48 ERROR: Failed to update the local Optware package database Aug 14 05:51:53 rwhitby: this is a pretty common error... do you think we should modify the quile bootstrap script to ensure ipkg-opt is installed, and if not, install it? Aug 14 05:52:23 Yeah seems like the two scripts should be combined Aug 14 05:52:31 k4p741nkrunch: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps Aug 14 05:52:35 do that one first Aug 14 05:52:39 Plus the wiki for Applying patches is missing the opware install script Aug 14 05:52:47 ok, now I really am off to bed Aug 14 05:52:48 Thanks Aug 14 05:52:52 have a good one Aug 14 05:53:06 Thank you! Night Aug 14 05:54:39 JackieRipper: perhaps detect the error and point them to the wiki page. Aug 14 05:59:43 destinal: i suppose u can use the concept being used in /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.calendar/app/controllers/month-assistant.js for the keys Aug 14 06:00:42 I think maybe both the adaptive buttons (for speed) and the symbol key (for ease of use) Aug 14 06:00:59 err shift-sym? Aug 14 06:02:08 I'll have to check out what you mean in terms of what kind of buttons the calendar uses Aug 14 06:03:09 what do are adaptive buttons? Aug 14 06:03:56 Zuchmir2: imagine a row of buttons in mojo at the bottom of the screen but they change characters (and labels to match) when you press shift, sym, gesture, control, etc Aug 14 06:04:04 Hey do you guys recommend Dropbear or OpenSSH Aug 14 06:04:16 so it's like 4 rows or more at once Aug 14 06:04:20 no reason to use openssh unless you need a specific feature Aug 14 06:04:27 most people seem to use dropbear Aug 14 06:04:38 Hmm, I was gonna go with that for familliarity, thanks Aug 14 06:05:39 And will the pre need to be in dev mode for ssh access? Aug 14 06:05:42 Zuchmir2: can you picture that? Aug 14 06:05:47 k4p741nkrunch: I recommend what the optware-bootstrap script does, which is dropbear for the server and openssh for the client Aug 14 06:05:59 yeah, but u can choose to popup only one line Aug 14 06:06:15 Zuchmir2: well the thing is it could be always there Aug 14 06:06:17 k4p741nkrunch: no, dev mode is not required after the initial install. Please update the wiki page to make that clear. Aug 14 06:06:25 Zuchmir2: and just changing all the time Aug 14 06:06:32 u mean if it's on the bottom Aug 14 06:06:34 yeah Aug 14 06:06:43 good way to use those rounded corners Aug 14 06:06:52 and then the other thing (a different feature that would also exist) would be a pop-over Aug 14 06:07:20 pop-over? Aug 14 06:07:22 so if you hit sym+. or orange+sym or something Aug 14 06:07:34 it pops up what the sym key normally does in most text entry dialogs Aug 14 06:07:45 which is the huge array of special chars Aug 14 06:07:50 ok Aug 14 06:07:59 I saw no reference to the optware-bootstrap script, I followed the manual install Aug 14 06:08:07 so then the pop-over is optimized for ease of use / familiarity Aug 14 06:08:18 but the button bar on the bottom edge is for speed and not blocking the screen Aug 14 06:08:42 I'd mostly use the latter but we want to make it accessible to people who aren't me :) Aug 14 06:09:03 Oh and wiki does have a mention of disabling dev mode so don't worry about updating it, I'm just an ass Aug 14 06:09:40 sounds good Aug 14 06:09:46 destinal: that sounds like a good approach. only concern is if the cells are too small to be hit reliably Aug 14 06:13:11 I'm no dev, but could you make the key hit on release so you could drag over to the right key and release for accuracy? Aug 14 06:13:34 yeah I think clicks in mojo normally work on release anyway Aug 14 06:13:47 ie on where the release happens, but I'm not sure Aug 14 06:14:48 The styling for the keys is in css right? Would it be fair to presume theme support? Aug 14 06:15:29 i think the "magic" tap handling gets done on lines 700+ in month-assistant.js Aug 14 06:17:58 hmm, I could theoretically enable ssh over evdo and root my pre anywhere it has a connection.. I wonder if I could poll location information like Palm does and create my own Lo-jack Aug 14 06:18:04 Or develop an app :) Aug 14 06:28:58 I can't seem to log in to my pre with putty Aug 14 06:29:33 ... could also look at: calculator-assistant.js, which toggles keys based on pressing the spacebar Aug 14 06:31:20 * Robi_ working on his on screen keyboard layout Aug 14 06:35:07 ... calculator-assistant.js uses images which depending on the class-name changes Aug 14 06:37:58 Woot! got it Aug 14 06:38:52 Putty gui sucks Aug 14 06:43:43 putty has gui? =x Aug 14 06:49:47 PreLoad now supports standard ipkg feed format: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1823955#post1823955 Aug 14 06:50:31 I wonder whether fileCoaster will also support the open standard ... Aug 14 06:52:22 This, and the agreement from PreCentral for us to automatically convert thier homebrew gallery into a standard feed at preware.org, means that PreLoad now is the on-device installer with access to the complete set of *all* homebrew ipkgs, whereas other installers that do not support the open feed format only give users access to a subset of all apps available. Aug 14 06:52:57 Any installer app can subscribe to the open standard, and the intent is that eventually they all do, giving users the ability to install *any* app using *any* installer. Aug 14 06:53:25 too bad both preload and filecoaster are both a little ugly... Aug 14 06:55:40 Wish their was a quilt patch browser for true rooted pres Aug 14 06:55:48 will quilt pop fail if you've never installed patch befor? Aug 14 06:59:19 Onscreen keyboard is in modifications repo, are there any reasons I shouldn't get it right now? Aug 14 07:00:29 nope Aug 14 07:00:44 unless you are uncomfortable with popping and pushing patches Aug 14 07:00:49 because it is in early alpha stages Aug 14 07:01:43 Yeah I'll give it a shot so I can give good feedback Aug 14 07:02:17 Hate to bug you while you're brainstorming but got any recommendations for gotta have patches? Aug 14 07:03:03 I haven't had the chance to test hardly any of them out yet unfortunately Aug 14 07:03:09 sorry Aug 14 07:03:14 Roam control sounds interesting.. Aug 14 07:03:17 reminds me i need to add my messenger modification to the wiki, something to do satuday afternoon i guess Aug 14 07:03:29 there are a bunch of them that look/sound good Aug 14 07:03:39 Whats this messenger patch? Aug 14 07:03:49 applauncher 5icons per row is a definite good one Aug 14 07:03:51 and as long as you are working with quilt from the /opt/sources/modifications repos, they shouldn't harm anything and be easy to pop/revert Aug 14 07:03:55 rwhitby: cool Aug 14 07:04:00 not sure Aug 14 07:04:36 i patches messenger to get rid of the annoying divider bar every 5min that has the timestamp on it Aug 14 07:04:37 I have to revert all before OEM update correct? Aug 14 07:04:53 now it only shows up when someone switches protocols Aug 14 07:04:58 Ahh, I kinda like that for logging purposes Aug 14 07:05:06 But good job nonetheless Aug 14 07:05:09 i have small timestamps on every message Aug 14 07:05:14 looks much cleaner Aug 14 07:05:23 Ahhhhh okay that's important Aug 14 07:05:25 Now I want it Aug 14 07:05:26 :P Aug 14 07:05:29 rwhitby: is preload open source? Aug 14 07:07:22 hmm I thought browsing the repo would produce a description of each patch above each one Aug 14 07:07:25 destinal: I believe that it is, but I'll check and let you know. Aug 14 07:07:47 cool. late here, heading to bed -- good night all Aug 14 07:07:56 Night Aug 14 07:08:12 i forgot what all i changed for the messenger app Aug 14 07:08:29 destinal-sleep: http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/196307-preload-beta-v1-31-8-1-a-2.html#post1798641 Aug 14 07:08:29 ahh, now i remember Aug 14 07:08:38 brb, gonna edit the wiki Aug 14 07:09:16 rwhitby, can I push a shell script into /opt/src/modifications/frameworks/ Aug 14 07:09:30 egaudet|Away: sure, we do that already elsewhere Aug 14 07:09:49 ok, I'm gonna have the quilt crap automated for my patch Aug 14 07:10:22 automated quilt crap, nice Aug 14 07:11:40 egaudet|Away: how about a generic script that can apply any named patch? Aug 14 07:11:58 Hmm, is that bug on the launcher page patch fixed where if you delete the far left page you lose the main app page? Aug 14 07:12:07 Yes it is set up that way, the only thing making it specific right now is PATCH_NAME and PATCH_SUBDIR Aug 14 07:12:30 Hell im even checking hostname for castle Aug 14 07:12:56 Oh man I would love a script to list, number, and download and apply patches Aug 14 07:13:45 maybe even with a flag to revert single patches or all for update Aug 14 07:14:42 quick whats bash number of args? Aug 14 07:14:50 $! ? Aug 14 07:15:44 h/o my dog just shit in my room, on a quilt oddly enough Aug 14 07:18:52 I wish I could put that on lolbox Aug 14 07:21:32 for those not following @webosinternals on twitter: http://twitter.com/webosinternals/status/3303665038 Aug 14 07:21:48 added my little hack to the wiki http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_Messaging_Adding_Timestamps_to_All_Received_Messages Aug 14 07:21:54 its down at the bottom Aug 14 07:22:38 acydlord: interested in doing a patch for that? Aug 14 07:23:22 rwhitby, on saturday i plan on it Aug 14 07:23:41 since my timestamp method is a bastardization of both methods on that page Aug 14 07:23:43 Thanks for twitter link! Aug 14 07:24:31 Awesome, I think I'll wait for patch for easy reverting Aug 14 07:27:29 i'll even get a few screenshots at that point cause I really like how it looks now Aug 14 07:27:51 I'm tempted to just try it out now Aug 14 07:28:09 If you had a screenshot before Saturday I'd much appreciate it :D Aug 14 07:28:38 OH btw with the terminal app can I download and apply patches? Aug 14 07:29:30 same as you would via ssh Aug 14 07:29:37 yes. you can run all the commands listed on the Applying_Patches page via the terminal. Aug 14 07:29:41 the terminal app just ssh's locally on the pre Aug 14 07:29:51 whats the button combo for screenshots? Aug 14 07:29:57 actually, it doesn't ssh, but the outcome is the same. Aug 14 07:30:02 rwhitby, the shell script will require only ONE level of subdir... OK? Aug 14 07:30:23 I figured, just said it was alpha and "commands like cd operate as normal".. I didn't think cd was a worry Aug 14 07:30:23 egaudet|Away: yes, we only have one level of subdir, but the appid last component name Aug 14 07:30:41 s/but/by/ Aug 14 07:30:41 rwhitby meant: egaudet|Away: yes, we only have one level of subdir, by the appid last component name Aug 14 07:31:07 screenshot combo is orange shift and sym I believe Aug 14 07:31:15 wow, i just found out that sym + orng + r reboots lol Aug 14 07:31:19 ok nm on that restriction anyway but no patches named ALL Aug 14 07:32:19 yeah, 'ALL' would be a bit unusual given our current naming conventions ;-) Aug 14 07:36:21 hmm, got 2 of 3 hunks failed in the add-delete-pages-to-launcher patch, want the output? Aug 14 07:36:48 did you already apply the 5icons per page patch? Aug 14 07:37:24 err 5 icons per row that is Aug 14 07:37:25 Yeah, does that include it Aug 14 07:37:54 I'll assume Aug 14 07:37:58 5 T Aug 14 07:38:20 oops Aug 14 07:38:36 yeah, it includes it Aug 14 07:40:07 How do you remove a patch from the series? Aug 14 07:42:08 http://twitpic.com/dty1p screenshot of my messenger app Aug 14 07:42:33 not a very good example since the times were so different, but it shows the timestamps well Aug 14 07:43:04 oooh I like! Aug 14 07:44:17 now i just need to remember how to create a diff file with multiple files in different directories lol Aug 14 07:45:21 google shall be my friend on saturday Aug 14 07:47:05 got another error with enabling browser downloads patch Aug 14 07:47:34 yeah, i got errors on a few of those myself Aug 14 07:48:26 anyone actually have an update radio patch? Aug 14 07:50:11 Grr battery present patch errores Aug 14 07:51:05 oh no, quilt is just acting up and not installing individual patches Aug 14 07:53:19 k4p741nkrunch: what's likely is that individual patches conflict with others, or that the patches haven't been updated for 1.1 Aug 14 07:53:37 quilt can't help if the patches conflict. Aug 14 07:54:38 oh noo I just realized I hadn't cd'ed to / because I lost and regained connection, I thought I was still in that directory Aug 14 07:54:51 Umm, is that bad? Aug 14 07:56:28 on nvm none actually applied while not in / Aug 14 07:57:48 yeah, it reverts anything that doesn't apply cleanly Aug 14 07:58:20 is there a way to force git to repull a specific patch file? Aug 14 07:58:47 Ikyo: just git pull the whole repository Aug 14 07:59:04 what has caused you to want to deal with a specific file? Aug 14 07:59:05 keeps telling me everything is up to date, but there is a file missing Aug 14 07:59:13 what does git status say? Aug 14 07:59:39 no changes Aug 14 07:59:45 did you delete or move the file? normally there is no way a file would become missing Aug 14 07:59:53 I deleted it Aug 14 08:00:13 I assumed like a dumbass that deleting the file would cause it to be repulled, but I was wrong. Aug 14 08:00:19 ok, make sure you have no changes in that directory and then type "git reset --hard HEAD" Aug 14 08:00:23 rwhitby, script pushed Aug 14 08:00:31 install -l lists all patches Aug 14 08:00:37 install -a updates all in series Aug 14 08:00:46 install installs/updates specified patch Aug 14 08:00:49 I was having an issue with the onscreen keyboard and deleted it Aug 14 08:01:01 install - no args asks user for patch name interactively Aug 14 08:02:18 egaudet|Away: nice! Aug 14 08:02:30 egaudet|Away: I'll update it tonight to work on the emulator too Aug 14 08:03:21 egaudet|Away: we could also add the ability to import -f a patch that has been updated in git Aug 14 08:03:39 sounds good Aug 14 08:03:58 quick question, does `whoami` return root if you sudo run a script? Aug 14 08:04:03 anyone use nano on their device over Vi? Aug 14 08:04:56 Ikyo: I use emacs on the emulator ;-) Aug 14 08:05:15 i hate vi on the pre because it has no undo :( Aug 14 08:05:22 yeap Aug 14 08:05:30 egaudet|Away: how about vim from optware? Aug 14 08:05:33 i try to do all my editing from my pc Aug 14 08:05:42 rwhitby, how do i get that Aug 14 08:05:48 egaudet|Away: ipkg-opt install vim Aug 14 08:05:58 I tried using nano, but it kept spitting back errors to me when I did anything. Aug 14 08:06:18 rwhitby, if this works... Aug 14 08:06:34 i will be one happy happy person with undo on the pre lol Aug 14 08:06:57 emacs should install on the Pre too - if I had one I'd test it. "ipkg-opt install emacs22" Aug 14 08:07:24 testing it now Aug 14 08:07:40 Ikyo: oh, hang on, emacs22 will probably fill the flash on the pre Aug 14 08:08:00 I wouldn't recommend it. Aug 14 08:08:19 there are other smaller emacs clones in optware Aug 14 08:08:29 yeah, have 86% used in / at the moment Aug 14 08:08:41 hmm didn't even see this Aug 14 08:08:43 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches#Script_for_Updating.2FInstalling_Patches Aug 14 08:09:14 egaudet|Away: I think yours is better Aug 14 08:09:59 I hope removing the phone radio patch will fix the wierd issue I had the last two nights. For some reason my phone radio would just shut down. Aug 14 08:10:08 I like that one's ability to choose from a list, but it will definitely be easier to tell people a couple of lines to type to use mine for a patch Aug 14 08:10:28 hopefully this will help some of the people having issues with patches Aug 14 08:11:16 Some of them need to take a basic Linux 101 course Aug 14 08:11:41 a lot of the issues I have seen are people not understanding general concepts like file permissions Aug 14 08:11:42 well, we keep making all this cool stuff, and they just want it. can't blame them. Aug 14 08:11:57 I don't mind helping them at all. Aug 14 08:12:10 do you need to do a quilt refresh ever? Aug 14 08:12:10 Ikyo: excellent. Aug 14 08:12:29 egaudet|Away: as a user, never. as a patch developer, whenever a new version of webos comes out Aug 14 08:12:46 that's right, i remember that now Aug 14 08:12:49 The ones that bother me are the ones that don't want to wait for help. They just keep spammimg the forums or getting mad because people are helping others first. Aug 14 08:13:01 whenever a new version of webos why? Aug 14 08:13:06 what does refresh do? Aug 14 08:13:53 Grr, quilt will not install a specified patch for me :/ Aug 14 08:14:00 use new script? Aug 14 08:14:08 Tries to install all, like the -a flag is permanent Aug 14 08:14:11 egaudet|Away: refreshes the context around the patch to match the new version of the base file exactly Aug 14 08:14:22 Does anyone know if the process for sending alerts on the calendar and monitoring incoming text messages in handled by the Mojo App or a backend .jar file? I am thinking they are handled by the .jar, but not sure. Aug 14 08:14:44 k4p741nkrunch: it installs things in the order that you imported them, which is recorded in the series file Aug 14 08:15:06 if you want to reorder them, then quilt pop -a, then edit the series file to the order you want, then quilt push Aug 14 08:15:15 you can do a: /quilt push /opt/src/patches/ Aug 14 08:15:54 Makes sense, I just have to delete the ones that hang to get to the ones I want. Thing is I figured with a partial install I shouldn't remove them or revert commands wouldn't work Aug 14 08:16:28 and yeah I was trying that exact syntax ikyo but it starts from patch 1 Aug 14 08:16:44 ok i am going to bed for real now Aug 14 08:17:33 Ahh, got em all now Aug 14 08:19:35 * rwhitby bbl Aug 14 08:24:43 not too much talk at night huh? Aug 14 08:27:02 It IS almost 4 am here Aug 14 08:27:22 that's night. :) Aug 14 08:27:27 morning is when you wake up Aug 14 08:27:54 I should be sleeping, but I just got this thing yesterday and I'm eager to make it do what I need! Aug 14 08:29:03 enjoying it so far? Aug 14 08:29:17 I wonder why it wont accept a reboot command through ssh Aug 14 08:30:12 that's odd -- certainly takes them from novaterm. Aug 14 08:30:56 takes it Aug 14 08:31:14 ehh I just do an orange/symbol/r Aug 14 08:31:15 although I often just use tellbootie Aug 14 08:31:35 You can also hold power and toggle the ringer switch 3 times. Aug 14 08:31:43 I'm amazed I can ssh into this thing over the evdo network Aug 14 08:31:47 although that does a low-level reboot rather then a system shutdown Aug 14 08:33:32 hmm, I'm gonna change the carrier text first anyways :P Aug 14 08:36:40 pkill LunaSysMgr works from ssh Aug 14 08:36:53 but that doesn't reboot Aug 14 08:37:00 just restarts SysMgr Aug 14 08:37:08 most times you dont need a reboot Aug 14 08:37:28 wtf can't edit the file in vi? Aug 14 08:38:02 nvm console locked up Aug 14 08:42:25 wow, normal vi commands aren't working on this thing, how do I save and close! Aug 14 08:43:06 normal vi commands work Aug 14 08:43:14 are you usting the terminal app on device? Aug 14 08:44:40 no, ssh through putty Aug 14 08:45:06 esc and then :w followed by :q should save and then exit Aug 14 08:45:43 was forgetting the colon, I never use vi Aug 14 08:45:54 nano should work right? Aug 14 08:46:44 if you install it Aug 14 08:46:48 we don't include it Aug 14 08:47:55 hrmm, somehow broke the top bar, I think my string was too large. Hooray for backups Aug 14 08:56:12 cdm: welcome back Aug 14 08:57:24 :) Aug 14 08:57:25 thanks Aug 14 08:58:23 cdm: did you get a chance to attend a predevcamp? I watched the kansas and dallas and boston ones until 3:30am here, then caught the second half of chuq's talk in san diego when I woke again at 7:30am. Aug 14 08:59:08 :) Aug 14 08:59:15 nope, I didn't attend then one at our HQ Aug 14 08:59:22 s/then/the Aug 14 08:59:40 too much Mojo for my taste. :) Aug 14 09:00:01 cdm: there were some -internals talk in kansas ;-) Aug 14 09:00:07 :) Aug 14 09:00:09 cool Aug 14 09:00:42 Plus honestly, I have spent wayyy too many weekends at work the past 2 years making this product. Going to something 'for fun' wouldn't impress the wife much. Aug 14 09:01:21 * rwhitby is still waiting for a GSM Pre down under .... Aug 14 09:02:02 you guys must have some beta testing program for introduction of new devices on the Australian networks ... ;-) (I know you can't talk about anything like that) Aug 14 09:02:41 what bands do you guys use? Same as EU or same as NA? Aug 14 09:02:47 same as EU Aug 14 09:02:54 plus UMTS 850 Aug 14 09:03:07 (Telstra "NextG" network) Aug 14 09:03:30 gsm is same as .eu Aug 14 09:12:06 Where can I browse the optware repo Aug 14 09:14:40 k4p741nkrunch: http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/unstable/ Aug 14 09:16:11 Thank you, and another question Aug 14 09:16:27 What terminal would you recommend on the pre Aug 14 09:16:40 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Aug 14 09:16:47 They all pretty much do the same thing, but as far as quick loading and.. oh ok Aug 14 09:17:20 of course I don't own a Pre, so I can't tell you about actual useability on the real device. Aug 14 09:17:54 emulator :P Aug 14 09:18:08 yep, that's where I have used it. Aug 14 09:18:11 Oh I guess load times would be sorta biased Aug 14 09:22:02 hmm top of the screen is cut off Aug 14 09:22:21 nvm, drag support works, awesome Aug 14 09:24:08 Wow, that's awesome. I can install patches on the go :D Aug 14 10:05:26 I see kismet on optware, would packet sniffing be possible with this hardware? Aug 14 10:07:38 I see lipcap on optware as well. Looks like it's up to the hardware at this point Aug 14 10:08:14 hardware doesn't support it Aug 14 10:08:34 eh? Aug 14 10:08:44 the cs08q1armel feed is shared with other devices (like the openmoko phone) Aug 14 10:08:45 Dang, was beginning to think the Pre was perfect Aug 14 10:08:54 Ahhh I gotcha Aug 14 10:09:02 the wifi hardware on the Pre does not support promiscuous sniffing as far as I am aware. Aug 14 10:09:07 ethernet tcpdump is fine Aug 14 10:09:13 Know what chipset it is? Aug 14 10:09:25 hardware details are on the wiki I think Aug 14 10:09:30 gotcha Aug 14 10:09:52 * rwhitby bbiab (dinner) Aug 14 10:10:08 Didnt list the wifi on the wiki fyi Aug 14 10:12:32 k4p741nkrunch1: http://www.phonewreck.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/prebd13.jpg Aug 14 10:12:47 I don't want to install SFTP on my Pre.. simply because if I do I won't ever need a USB cable for it again Aug 14 10:12:57 (I think one of the memory chips should be connected to the MSM) Aug 14 10:14:51 That is excellent, thank you Aug 14 10:15:02 And it's the same wifi chip as the iphone?? Aug 14 10:16:49 hmm looks like some guys on whitehat world are working on kismet for the pre Aug 14 10:16:50 :P Aug 14 10:22:15 And looks like next release of metasploit will work with Ruby 1.9.1, which is on optware :D Aug 14 10:25:07 Alright night people, it's 6:30 here and I need to get up by 9 for a 4 hour drive Aug 14 10:25:09 FML Aug 14 10:25:35 Thanks for your help Whitby Aug 14 10:28:14 np Aug 14 10:28:36 * rwhitby bbl Aug 14 11:20:24 does anyone know how to get back to the terminal after changing the font color Aug 14 11:20:27 ? Aug 14 11:20:30 on the pre Aug 14 11:53:41 anyone haveing issues on email lately? Aug 14 11:53:45 my gf and i have both been having email issues Aug 14 11:53:45 even ater hitting refresh it doesnt get new mail Aug 14 12:01:08 works fine here blau-mikeDg Aug 14 12:01:15 using my own imap accts Aug 14 12:03:03 hmm when using the Depot can you store values like 'firstUseComplete' = true; or do you need to actually store an object like { 'firstUseComplete': true, 'blah': foo } Aug 14 12:35:52 FreeTim3, I have a call today at 2:30 with Mikew from Akamai Aug 14 12:36:01 s/Mikew/Mike Aug 14 12:36:21 your internal recruiter I guess Aug 14 12:38:08 Excellent !! Aug 14 12:38:17 Good luck ! - do well. :) Aug 14 12:40:04 I hope so :D Aug 14 12:40:21 hey any updates on the room? Were you able to get over there yesterday? Aug 14 12:40:55 I reserved a room - BUT it's not the one with hours that we wanted. The admin was not available yesterday Aug 14 12:41:17 So for Sept8th at least we have something reserved at Dewey for now 4-7pm and I am trying for something else. Aug 14 12:41:42 I hope to get something better, and when we do we'll release the existing reservation at Dewey. Aug 14 12:49:22 ok cool Aug 14 12:49:25 that's fine :) Aug 14 12:49:36 do we have the room# I am going to post about this :) Aug 14 12:52:23 oh hell i thought we were in the other room Aug 14 12:52:28 hah Aug 14 12:55:18 whoops. sorry for the spam all Aug 14 13:17:44 Does anyone know if the process for sending alerts on the calendar and monitoring incoming text messages in handled by the Mojo App or a backend .jar file? I am thinking they are handled by the .jar, but not sure. Aug 14 13:18:20 anyone running the radio power patch on 1.1.0? Aug 14 13:22:16 Ikyo, as far as the messaging i believe the app subscribes to the service which notifies it that a new message is arriving Aug 14 13:25:54 That is what I am wondering because I was going to possibly make a change that would allow to select messages not pop up for a location service Aug 14 13:44:16 i have an iPREDator invite... anyone want it? Aug 14 13:44:23 i'm not gonna use it Aug 14 13:46:45 good morning Aug 14 13:47:06 good morning Aug 14 13:47:12 would you like my iPREDator invite? Aug 14 13:48:13 if anyone wants my iPREDator invite, PM me in precentral's forum: http://forums.precentral.net/private.php?do=newpm&u=155721 Aug 14 13:48:37 what is iPREDator Aug 14 13:48:37 ? Aug 14 13:59:22 hey guys, I've had my pre rooted for some time now, but I just logged in to try to get a webos terminal running, and I have an annoyance. I keep getting broadcast messages about powerd Aug 14 13:59:55 about once every three seconds it enters another cycle Aug 14 14:00:05 powerd: System going to sleep now Aug 14 14:00:09 powerd: System woke up. Aug 14 14:01:59 Hi yes - use the Extended Time mod, set it to 30 mins or 1 hour or something - also playing MP3 will keep it awake Aug 14 14:02:17 I have my screen time out set to 30mins so that doesn't happen Aug 14 14:02:55 Here is the mod - do this - http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_webOS_Changing_the_%22Turn_off_after_X%22_time Aug 14 14:03:02 cool Aug 14 14:03:11 thank you. I'll see if I can set it up Aug 14 14:03:48 You're welcome - good luck. btw I only changed my existing "3 minutes" to "30" - its easy to just add a zero Aug 14 14:04:04 the mod says to add stuff, but I just changed existing timer since it's easier Aug 14 14:05:07 so it works in seconds Aug 14 14:05:11 ie: 300 for 5 minutes Aug 14 14:05:13 ? Aug 14 14:05:28 Yep. but 5 mins isn't very long why not 600 for 10 Aug 14 14:05:28 (if I wanted a cycle that high) Aug 14 14:05:39 FreeTim3 what were you porting to the Pre? Aug 14 14:06:12 but don't put a zillion seconds, because if you forget and leave phone on it'll kill your battery. You want some reasonable number Aug 14 14:07:26 I think I use 30 minutes on mine (1800 sec) Aug 14 14:27:23 okay, I made that change, and it appears to have made no difference Aug 14 14:27:39 the insufferable scrolling continues Aug 14 14:29:57 I think perhaps we are talking about different things Aug 14 14:30:38 I'm talking about wall messages reporting every few seconds that powerd is putting the system to sleep and then waking it back up Aug 14 14:30:57 I'm not talking about the amount of time the phone waits to idle its screen off Aug 14 14:33:08 is there a way to rollback to 0.1.6 terminal? Aug 14 14:33:20 since it is downloading 0.1.7 from preware Aug 14 14:39:05 hmm Aug 14 14:39:37 Configuring org.webosinternals.termplugin Aug 14 14:39:38 (offline root mode: not running org.webosinternals.termplugin.postinst) Aug 14 14:39:40 whats this? Aug 14 14:44:21 root@castle:/var/home/root# ipkg -o /var remove org.webosinternals.termplugin Aug 14 14:44:25 Removing package org.webosinternals.termplugin from root... Aug 14 14:44:27 (offline root mode: not running org.webosinternals.termplugin.prerm) Aug 14 14:45:35 enio: try just doing ipkg org,blahblahblah Aug 14 14:45:45 ipkg remove org.webosinternals.termplugin Aug 14 14:45:50 well i think i got the keyboard code ported to .31 now Aug 14 14:45:54 it should know the ipk location Aug 14 14:46:02 now if i could only get the framebuffer working Aug 14 14:46:06 PuffTheMagic: wsup my man what you working on Aug 14 14:46:08 i might be able to see what im doing Aug 14 14:46:23 atlanta: getting a .31 kernel to boot on the pre ;) Aug 14 14:46:32 http://wklej.org/id/134982/ Aug 14 14:46:43 still no go Aug 14 14:47:15 PuffTheMagic: cool that will be a custom os right im not familiar with kernel shit Aug 14 14:47:17 what you be able to do Aug 14 14:47:17 ? Aug 14 14:47:48 enio: weird Aug 14 14:47:51 its not really a custom os Aug 14 14:47:54 palm runs linux Aug 14 14:47:58 .24 Aug 14 14:48:03 err the pre that is Aug 14 14:48:08 im just using different code Aug 14 14:48:12 still linux Aug 14 14:48:24 oh ok by using a different kernel will it allow more mods or something Aug 14 14:48:24 ? Aug 14 14:48:43 Whoops, set the new webos temrinal to size small and it crashed Luna Aug 14 14:48:46 no not necessarily Aug 14 14:48:51 maybe better power handling Aug 14 14:48:53 maybe worse Aug 14 14:48:54 idk Aug 14 14:49:00 sorry for my incompetency about kernels lol Aug 14 14:50:11 Rick : Button Mania. It works on the Pre, but it's rough. Real rough Aug 14 14:50:40 are there any updates coming soon to help with battery life? Aug 14 14:51:09 there needs to be a damn update to speed up bootup Aug 14 14:51:10 idk i dont work for palm Aug 14 14:51:17 PuffTheMagic, have we figured out how to compile kernel to support the power button yet? Aug 14 14:51:20 because its rediculous that i have to wait 10 mins if my phone goes dead Aug 14 14:51:20 atlanta: that will never happen Aug 14 14:51:50 PuffTheMagic: why is that Aug 14 14:52:06 when else will you find time to get your coffee? Aug 14 14:52:12 or goto the bathroom Aug 14 14:52:27 upstart is a decent init system since its event based Aug 14 14:52:34 but it still based on scripts Aug 14 14:52:36 which are slow Aug 14 14:52:47 and i doubt palm is gonna run einit Aug 14 14:52:55 or the new init system that exherbo devs are working on Aug 14 14:53:06 and you cant make the cpu faster Aug 14 14:53:06 gotcha Aug 14 14:53:11 true that Aug 14 14:53:18 well u can by 100mhz Aug 14 14:53:21 big deal thouh Aug 14 14:53:30 yea wont be that much of a difference Aug 14 14:53:42 hopefully they make the interface software a little smoother Aug 14 14:53:53 it heecups alot Aug 14 14:54:02 i never notice anything like that Aug 14 14:54:16 like when scrolly and stuff none? Aug 14 14:54:23 but i bet that if more of the apps were ported over to lightwight apps that might help Aug 14 14:54:24 smoother interface would be nice Aug 14 14:54:31 seems like most of them use the hold heavy style still Aug 14 14:54:32 puffthemagic, did you see my question about kernel/power button? Aug 14 14:54:39 dijital1: indeed Aug 14 14:54:51 dijital1: do you seem to have little stop ups here and there Aug 14 14:54:51 ? Aug 14 14:54:56 psykoz: yeah... im not working on .24, im working on .31, and im just trying to get that to boot atm Aug 14 14:55:25 puffthemagic, gotcha, well keep me posted, I want to definitely get a kernel compile with power button working so I can play with the kernel/cpu scaling ;) Aug 14 14:55:26 maybe if i take off the shield it will work btter Aug 14 14:55:36 I don't have a pre for myself but I play with one when I'm at work Aug 14 14:56:08 the panning and moving could be a bit smoother.. I'm not sure if it's because of the slower processor or what, but it seems a bit laggy in some areas Aug 14 14:56:13 dijital1: u work for sprint? Aug 14 14:56:27 my pre runs smooth like butter Aug 14 14:56:29 no Aug 14 14:57:26 PuffTheMagic: i've put runit on the pre, it works well. Aug 14 14:57:51 i cant image that being any faster Aug 14 14:58:08 PuffTheMagic: did you do any scalling Aug 14 14:58:09 ? Aug 14 14:58:15 nope Aug 14 14:58:20 just run at default 500 Aug 14 14:58:45 PuffTheMagic: it makes my laptop boot in 16 seconds. Aug 14 14:58:45 oh ok Aug 14 14:58:53 PuffTheMagic: with sysv that's 2 minutes for the same bootup. Aug 14 14:58:58 with upstart it's 44 seconds. Aug 14 14:59:05 i haven't tried eInit, looks obsolete. Aug 14 14:59:14 i was an einit dev a few years ago Aug 14 14:59:23 before magnus started on working on curie Aug 14 14:59:25 we run runit on everything now. Aug 14 14:59:26 and kyuba Aug 14 14:59:34 it's part of our datacenter debian distro. Aug 14 14:59:56 it's nice to allow users to have a runit dir. Aug 14 15:00:01 so user-level services are in ~/service Aug 14 15:00:10 and only root/system stuff goes in /service Aug 14 15:00:44 also runit being dietlibc makes it tiny and very portable. Aug 14 15:01:06 bougyman runit makes pre boot faster Aug 14 15:01:07 ? Aug 14 15:01:20 The pre's boot time is actually not so bad Aug 14 15:01:26 it's Luna that takes up most of the startup time Aug 14 15:01:52 So I mean if you're spooning some time out of the actual boot time you're basically spooning water out of the ocean, to be honest Aug 14 15:01:52 atlanta: iono, i haven't put it on the boot side yet. Aug 14 15:01:55 only on my debian side. Aug 14 15:02:17 psykoz: ++ Aug 14 15:02:18 oh ok Aug 14 15:02:43 ]what about the long wait before powering on Aug 14 15:02:46 i would look into kyuba Aug 14 15:02:47 anything you can do for taht Aug 14 15:02:53 * psykoz notes he stayed away from saying "You're taking a piss in the ocean" :) Aug 14 15:02:54 magnus designed it for embedded devices Aug 14 15:03:37 they call it fast and small (kyuba) but it's huge compared to runit. Aug 14 15:04:14 its probably like 100 times faster Aug 14 15:04:17 since its all C Aug 14 15:04:21 and dont use sh Aug 14 15:04:33 and it can run in mmu-less devices too Aug 14 15:06:30 runit is also all C, and it's dietlibc, also works on mmu-less devices. Aug 14 15:07:39 here goes a init war Aug 14 15:07:48 naa i've had these too many times Aug 14 15:08:01 lol Aug 14 15:08:05 and i had a falling out with einit guys a few years ago Aug 14 15:08:13 so i really dont even care if you try kyuba Aug 14 15:08:15 i'd never seen kyuba, the source is clean enough, though. Aug 14 15:08:22 but einit booted my laptop in 10s Aug 14 15:08:25 there aren't a lot of pre-built services available for it, though. Aug 14 15:08:26 and that was like 3 years ago Aug 14 15:08:47 bougyman: right, write your own Aug 14 15:08:54 kyuba depends on curie, too. Aug 14 15:09:09 curie is his own dietdietlibc Aug 14 15:09:13 i see that. Aug 14 15:09:25 a lot bigger than actual dietlibc, tho. Aug 14 15:09:39 oh, are you low on space? Aug 14 15:09:40 ;) Aug 14 15:09:44 i never ran it Aug 14 15:09:53 lol Aug 14 15:10:06 how are u determining size? Aug 14 15:10:07 i wish i knew some advance linux stuff Aug 14 15:10:12 tar.gz size? Aug 14 15:10:14 PuffTheMagic: LOC Aug 14 15:10:41 since they're both C LOC is a valid size comparision. Aug 14 15:11:03 kyuba uses some scheme/lisp i think Aug 14 15:11:09 for "init scripts" Aug 14 15:11:16 well he writes sexp parsing in curie. Aug 14 15:11:18 and build into C with chicken or something Aug 14 15:11:42 but he handles standard scripting, too. Aug 14 15:12:38 kyuba looks linux only. Aug 14 15:12:48 it should work on bsd Aug 14 15:12:49 it would die miserably on an fbsd or netbsd. Aug 14 15:12:52 he was a big bsd fan Aug 14 15:12:54 it doesn't reap zombies. Aug 14 15:13:03 since fbsd 5 init is repsonsible for that. Aug 14 15:13:17 i believe it runs on bsd's and linux Aug 14 15:13:20 einit did at least Aug 14 15:13:24 question guys whats the difference between bsd and linux Aug 14 15:13:25 ? Aug 14 15:13:27 and i though he was going the same Aug 14 15:13:29 unless he's reaping them somewhere else. Aug 14 15:13:40 atlanta: control Aug 14 15:13:40 he's got a linux/ dir in the source but no bsd/ one. Aug 14 15:13:54 bsd is run by a bunch of natzi's that control the whole userland Aug 14 15:14:05 linux is open and evolves really fast Aug 14 15:14:11 and there is no standard userland Aug 14 15:14:21 which is both good and bad depending on how you look at it Aug 14 15:14:37 it can lead to issues between userland programs Aug 14 15:14:56 BSD doesn't really have that problem as much Aug 14 15:15:19 some linuxes give the same userland stability without taking away too much control. Aug 14 15:15:31 some do, that's true Aug 14 15:15:33 deb-based. Aug 14 15:15:34 but bsd is like 5 years behind linux hardware support and other userland features Aug 14 15:15:38 anyone can contribute. anyone can make a specific part of userland better, but you often end up that the software doesn't work as well together in some closed systems like yousay os x for example Aug 14 15:15:59 I've never had an issue with OS X userland Aug 14 15:16:08 I'm not saying BSD is better, I don't use it Aug 14 15:16:16 just that that's the argument for BSD Aug 14 15:16:24 ultimately, we're OT though ;0 Aug 14 15:16:31 :) * Aug 14 15:22:24 has anyone gotten the roam control patch to work. I've tried twice, and the phone prefs page just comes up blank. thankfully, I backed up the origonal preflist-assistant.js file! Aug 14 15:23:38 Ron001: I haven't looked at it. I would probably manually patch it or see if it is available with git. I am still trying to find a working copy of the phone radio patch. Aug 14 15:25:04 it was a manual patch. I'm wondering if using copy from windows and pasting in vi (via putty) was causing an issue. Aug 14 15:25:35 It is. The patch is available with GIT. I bet if you look at it you will see it being spaced incorrectly. Aug 14 15:25:52 thanks, I'll check it out Aug 14 15:33:41 how is the phone radio patch different than airplane mode? Aug 14 15:38:05 we gotta get rid of manual patching Aug 14 15:45:22 egaudet_work: seems like the symbol key isnt working, unless it wasnt supposed to be working yet. also, would be nice to add a shift key as well. :) Aug 14 15:47:06 egaudet_work: also, if the textbox associated with the kb dissapears, the kb should disappear as well, (i.e. when editing a url in the browser and then putting it into landscape mode, the url bar goes away, though, perhaps would be cool to enable it as well) Aug 14 15:50:08 Puff: It is similar to airplane mode except it only shuts off the phone not the other connections (wifi and BT) Aug 14 15:54:12 Ron001: What did you find out? Aug 14 15:54:33 sym/shift are in the works. Also I will look into maybe watching for onFocus changes or something to hide the kb, good idea Aug 14 15:59:34 s/perhaps would be cool to enable it as well/perhaps would be cool to enable landscape-mode url bar as well/ Aug 14 15:59:35 gkatsev meant: egaudet_work: also, if the textbox associated with the kb dissapears, the kb should disappear as well, (i.e. when editing a url in the browser and then putting it into landscape mode, the url bar goes away, though, perhaps would be cool to enable landscap... Aug 14 16:00:00 Egaudet: Should look at modifying the install script to check what version of WebOs the person is running to make sure the patch is complient Aug 14 16:06:54 good idea Ikyo Aug 14 16:07:29 do they have a webos version in /etc/release or somewhere? Aug 14 16:07:31 also, should add numbers somewhere Aug 14 16:07:43 egaudet_work: its in other places Aug 14 16:07:49 yea i think I'm going to re-add scrolling capabilities to the kb Aug 14 16:08:09 the website for projects i was creating supports tagging releases with webos version Aug 14 16:08:15 since scrolling isn't even off anyway (the web browser scrolls in background on flicks with kb up) Aug 14 16:08:22 but ipk feed only allows 1 line for deps Aug 14 16:08:30 that that line is for package deps Aug 14 16:08:37 not api/abi compatibility Aug 14 16:08:56 hmm Aug 14 16:09:05 but the feed could be filtered to show only webos 1.1.0 Aug 14 16:09:07 or whatever Aug 14 16:09:49 so where do you tell the release from the pre? Aug 14 16:10:22 s/do/can Aug 14 16:10:30 let me see if I can find it on the emulator real quick...I know it is in the device info screen Aug 14 16:10:38 anyone tried quilt pop -a and quilt push -a from the terminal app on the dre? Aug 14 16:10:38 mojo.js has it Aug 14 16:12:30 someone hack something more internal! :P Aug 14 16:12:32 PuffTheMagic: still playing with getting the newer kernel tree working? Aug 14 16:12:45 destinal: yeah Aug 14 16:12:49 the fb code is a mess Aug 14 16:12:57 i need that Aug 14 16:13:07 ah, yeah. video = important Aug 14 16:13:08 so i can tell if its really booting or not Aug 14 16:13:21 but i think i "might' have gotten the keyboard ported over Aug 14 16:13:29 anything that uses gpio is a mess though Aug 14 16:14:06 hello Aug 14 16:14:38 anyone home? Looking for info on zoom limitations and webOS Aug 14 16:15:41 medicnancy: no, no one is home, we're all at work Aug 14 16:15:48 D Aug 14 16:15:52 s/D/:D Aug 14 16:15:55 :-) Aug 14 16:15:57 crap... Aug 14 16:16:06 anyone have a ssh session in their pre right now? Aug 14 16:16:23 I can start one quick, what you need? Aug 14 16:16:34 what is the output you get from an uname -a Aug 14 16:16:45 Trying to see if it will spit out what version of WebOs the device has on it Aug 14 16:16:55 one sec Aug 14 16:20:19 Ikyo: i just told u how to get the version Aug 14 16:20:23 its in mojo.js Aug 14 16:20:28 got it' Aug 14 16:20:31 uname -a is kernel Aug 14 16:20:35 that has nothing to do with webos Aug 14 16:21:08 Linux castle 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 Aug 14 16:21:30 that's true Aug 14 16:21:38 I was hoping it might have spit it out in there. Trying to get it to tie into the install script egaudet is working on Aug 14 16:21:43 webOS version is diff Aug 14 16:21:59 anyone know anything about zoom limitations with imageview? Aug 14 16:23:09 just parse it Aug 14 16:23:15 its not hard Aug 14 16:24:18 How nice....palm has an opensource site with the original files they used along with patches Aug 14 16:25:33 Ikyo: at /opt/PalmSDK/Current/share/framework/mojo.js | grep "MINOR:" | cut -f 2 -d ':' | cut -f 1 -d ',' | sed 's/^[ \t]*//;s/[ \t]*$//' Aug 14 16:25:55 cat /opt/PalmSDK/Current/share/framework/mojo.js | grep "POINT:" | cut -f 2 -d ':' | cut -f 1 -d ',' | sed 's/^[ \t]*//;s/[ \t]*$//' Aug 14 16:25:57 there u go Aug 14 16:26:27 just adjust the patch to the on palm mojo.js file Aug 14 16:27:08 or use a js parser Aug 14 16:33:10 = bigredgpk on PreCentral and TreoCentral Aug 14 16:33:45 Quick question for the guru's out there Aug 14 16:34:18 Is there a way to backup your entire Palm Pre? I'm going to be exchanging mine and would like to keep all settings and applications Aug 14 16:36:26 eh, ask a question and quit 24 seconds later? Aug 14 16:36:27 there already is. Aug 14 16:36:39 wow. Aug 14 16:36:44 I can't type that fast. Aug 14 16:37:10 Ikyo - they put up opensource.palm.com several weeks ago. Aug 14 16:37:21 Hes going to come back in. Aug 14 16:37:28 its not perfect, but it's certainly better than what many other companies do.... Aug 14 16:37:48 sorry guys, just got booted by my back space button Aug 14 16:38:12 Yeah, I like how they are actually putting it all out there. They want people to work on the device unlike other companies. Aug 14 16:38:27 Ikyo: well, they're not really putting it all out there Aug 14 16:38:39 hey destinal Aug 14 16:38:43 Ikyo: only the stuff that they're required to under GPL at this point (and it's not actually complete yet) Aug 14 16:38:51 lots of stuff doesn't compile Aug 14 16:38:52 man I love sed, Aug 14 16:39:01 does so much while looking like a bunch of mumbo jumbo Aug 14 16:39:12 tlz: hey Aug 14 16:39:32 when im trying to install the add-on-screen-keyboard.patch, it says it doesnt exist Aug 14 16:39:39 but i did a git pull Aug 14 16:39:54 and it shows its there when i do a "find" Aug 14 16:40:04 some is better then none that is for sure Aug 14 16:40:38 are you using the new install script tlz? Aug 14 16:40:54 i was typing quilt import Aug 14 16:41:01 Ikyo: it's clear they're making an effort to comply, yeah. hopefully they'll get stuff straightened out (and maybe even open up some of their own stuff they don't have to open at some point) Aug 14 16:41:04 and then the filepath Aug 14 16:41:07 tls, that method is now deprecated. Aug 14 16:41:10 tlz Aug 14 16:41:17 Did anyone have any ideas on how to backup the pre? I was just going to tar the entire thing but that seems a little excessive Aug 14 16:41:19 we now have something BETTER..... Aug 14 16:41:26 oooo do tell lol Aug 14 16:41:34 BeingBoston_ rsync Aug 14 16:42:03 Destinal: yeah, it would be nice if they do so we can implement features that Windows Mobile devices have like automatic ringer/silent selection based on your calendar. Aug 14 16:42:44 is there a new command i should type rick Aug 14 16:42:50 Ikyo: well you can already do that. Palm's own apps are in javascript in readable / modifiable form. That's not open source, but definitely provides more freedom to the end user than a lot of phone stacks Aug 14 16:42:59 looking it up Aug 14 16:43:03 please wait tlz Aug 14 16:43:06 I'm not that fast. Aug 14 16:43:15 lol sorry Aug 14 16:43:25 Destinal: Yeap, but that isn't going to be as easy to pull off. Aug 14 16:43:33 Ikyo: why not? Aug 14 16:43:50 Rick_left_ Thanks, i'll look into that Aug 14 16:44:02 the source I'm looking for is mainly for infrastructure, supporting stuff, mojo, etc. the stuff you need to control ringers and stuff is all there Aug 14 16:45:08 well I guess it is time to learn java now Aug 14 16:45:25 Ikyo: javaSCRIPT (!= java) Aug 14 16:45:55 Worst thing about the language is the confusing name :) Aug 14 16:45:59 I need to make a macro key to type that. Aug 14 16:46:07 that's not the WORST thing.. Aug 14 16:46:07 yeah, I needed to get more sleep last night. I woke up and my phone was doing some weird things Aug 14 16:46:16 well, ok, fair Aug 14 16:46:25 lack of scoping probably is Aug 14 16:46:29 that braces do not invoke scope MAY be the worst thing, Aug 14 16:46:33 btw.. i love irssi on terminal Aug 14 16:46:49 but the decision to use IEEE floating point for all numerics MIGHT be the worst thing... Aug 14 16:47:09 since 0.01 + 0.02 does not equal 0.03 Aug 14 16:47:11 Rick_left: oh, you don't like having to represent decimals as whole numbers for accurate math? Aug 14 16:47:45 destinal there were better choices available. One type of numeric was a good idea. The one they chose was bad. Aug 14 16:48:42 (0.01 * 100 + 0.02 * 100) / 100 = 0.03? :) Aug 14 16:48:42 then there's the whole 0=='' and ''==0 debacle. having a equality tester that auto-casts SOUNDS like a good idea until you realize it's not transitive.... Aug 14 16:49:17 actually destinal no, that doesnt work either Aug 14 16:49:32 1 + 2 = 3 -- keep it that way until you display. Aug 14 16:49:35 ah Aug 14 16:49:46 bah. this file does exist! why wont it let me patch it! Aug 14 16:49:46 all money has to be represented in integer pennies. Aug 14 16:50:15 destinal where's rwhitby's new "Install patch" script. tlz could use it. Aug 14 16:50:40 Rick_left: I don't know, I wasn't really tracking that new development Aug 14 16:50:53 I'd have to go to logs Aug 14 16:50:58 and Rod's asleep. Aug 14 16:51:03 (I hate timezones.) Aug 14 16:51:15 stupid round earth. Aug 14 16:51:28 it would be nice if we didn't need sleep. lots of forms of life doesn't Aug 14 16:51:44 it is there Aug 14 16:51:56 should be in modifications Aug 14 16:52:08 destinal: im afraid to boot this kernel i am making now Aug 14 16:52:18 PuffTheMagic: oh? Aug 14 16:53:05 afraid of powering the wrong GPIO pins, or.... Aug 14 16:53:27 well wrong voltage to the lcd really Aug 14 16:54:34 i whipped that patch up last night Aug 14 16:54:39 you do ./install Aug 14 16:54:45 its in /opt/source/modifications Aug 14 16:54:54 you can do ./install -l to list all available patches Aug 14 16:56:03 hmm Aug 14 16:57:28 egaudet.. how you call it up once the patch is installed Aug 14 16:57:35 do i need to restart luna? Aug 14 16:58:13 yea it doesn't do that part Aug 14 16:58:21 gotcha.. brb Aug 14 16:58:42 anyone familiar with the depot i asked a question in webos pertaining to the 5mb limit Aug 14 16:59:11 and it will put your rootfs back in ro mode when the script is done Aug 14 16:59:50 PuffTheMagic: no guts, no glory.. but it sure would be nice to have a totally dev board Aug 14 17:00:11 there has to be some upstream framebuffer code Aug 14 17:00:52 doh shit Aug 14 17:01:02 i should be using the omap git tree Aug 14 17:01:05 not linus's tree Aug 14 17:01:06 ;) Aug 14 17:02:04 PuffTheMagic: oh, it's not integrated? Aug 14 17:02:16 there is "some" code upstream Aug 14 17:02:25 but its not all in vanilla yet Aug 14 17:04:11 hey egaudet.. u here Aug 14 17:04:49 how do you pull up this on screen keyboard lol Aug 14 17:06:35 tlzz Aug 14 17:07:05 tlzz you have to be in a text field... (not a search field like address or name) and then you tap the gesture area. Aug 14 17:07:27 ahhh. lemme give it a shot Aug 14 17:08:10 ahh sweeet.. the url address bar works Aug 14 17:08:15 nodnod Aug 14 17:08:23 rick.. i love u. Aug 14 17:08:26 note: enter does not nessesarily activate at this point Aug 14 17:08:37 strictly professionally tho Aug 14 17:09:10 tlzz once I figured out that there was ALREADY AN ONSCREEN KEYBOARD with the sym popup, the rest was engineering. lots and lots of it. Eric's done a bang-up-job Aug 14 17:09:47 you guys are awesome Aug 14 17:11:44 enter SHOULD have the same effect as they hw keyboard enter Aug 14 17:12:07 works for me, i think Aug 14 17:12:54 I meant to ask, what apps have workable text inputs in landscape mode? Aug 14 17:13:13 WFM Aug 14 17:13:15 enter inserts a q for me lol Aug 14 17:13:19 egaudet_work: i dont think any right now Aug 14 17:14:01 enter on the hw kb with the onscreen up inserts the "highlighted" key, which is an artifact of the sym popup kb Aug 14 17:14:09 that the onscreen kb inherited Aug 14 17:14:14 the onscreen enter should not insert a q Aug 14 17:14:41 heh.. thats weird. cause when i hit the enter key... it does.. Aug 14 17:15:37 q is my highlighted key im guessing Aug 14 17:15:51 hmm that is odd, just to be clear you are touching the enter symbol on the screen Aug 14 17:16:11 what app? Aug 14 17:16:52 i have no enter symbol on the screen Aug 14 17:16:56 web address bar Aug 14 17:17:11 tlzz: enter is << Aug 14 17:17:15 er, >> Aug 14 17:17:25 backspace is << Aug 14 17:17:46 i tried that too.. Aug 14 17:18:09 egaudet_work: would be cool if it could detect what app you are running, and if you are in web, it would add .com, .net, and .org buttons Aug 14 17:18:29 and for IM it could add :-) and something like that Aug 14 17:18:54 egaudet_work: cross your fingers that the omap repo works :D Aug 14 17:19:13 \/ Aug 14 17:19:21 "/\ Aug 14 17:19:35 "\/ Aug 14 17:19:36 err destinal ^^ Aug 14 17:19:37 "/\ Aug 14 17:19:56 PuffTheMagic: fingers crossed Aug 14 17:20:11 mine are too Aug 14 17:20:28 gkatsev, when i implement scrolling symbols etc... I will be able to put those in with ease Aug 14 17:20:46 I will just need to get some images small enough that say ".com" etc.. Aug 14 17:20:50 cool Aug 14 17:20:52 egaud.. good work on the kb man.. Aug 14 17:21:12 egaudet_work: the keyboard uses images for the letters not text? Aug 14 17:21:28 no it uses text, but i can't have 4 characters in a single element Aug 14 17:21:31 so u have to open the keyboard to use the on sceen keyboard? Aug 14 17:21:39 it CAN use an image though, it's just html Aug 14 17:21:42 (i hope) Aug 14 17:21:47 PuffTheMagic: no, tap gesture area Aug 14 17:21:53 right Aug 14 17:22:27 tlzz, ">>" working as enter for you without the q? Aug 14 17:23:01 does anyone know off hand if sliding the keyboard triggers an event that we can listen to? Aug 14 17:23:01 no.. and bkspace isnt working either :( Aug 14 17:23:20 but other keys are working? Aug 14 17:23:22 what app? Aug 14 17:23:31 Rick_left: I have configed rsync according to the wiki page, and I have rsync on my mac but I keep getting the folowing error Aug 14 17:23:35 rsync error: error in socket IO (code 10) Aug 14 17:24:00 web app Aug 14 17:24:08 other keys are workin Aug 14 17:24:14 just not those two Aug 14 17:24:43 bkspace works in email.. just not web Aug 14 17:25:08 tlzz, are you on a web page or address bar? Aug 14 17:25:21 im on google.com in a search bar.. Aug 14 17:25:28 not on the address bar Aug 14 17:25:29 ok BeingBoston_ Aug 14 17:25:36 tlzz, that is known bug at the moment Aug 14 17:25:37 socket IO error hmmmmm Aug 14 17:25:48 ahh. gotcha Aug 14 17:26:02 also, I didn't have the rsyncd.conf file, i had to create it. i checked the ipkg list and rsync is installed Aug 14 17:26:22 so if you do rsync --h you get the normal help? Aug 14 17:26:32 its still awesome keyboard lol Aug 14 17:26:52 Right now only the pre's text widgets are compatible Aug 14 17:26:55 rsync - h gives me the help file Aug 14 17:27:02 ok Aug 14 17:27:03 cool Aug 14 17:27:12 rsync -h * the --h gave me an error Aug 14 17:28:04 fyi, i'm using a Mac running 10.5.8 as the Host Aug 14 17:28:07 wifi or via usb? Aug 14 17:28:14 wifi Aug 14 17:28:27 ok here i go Aug 14 17:28:36 boot new kernel after i config bootie :D Aug 14 17:29:03 what IP did you put into rsync.conf? Aug 14 17:29:15 my mac's .99 Aug 14 17:29:23 Egaudet: even if sliding it out doesn't cause an even pressing a key on it would Aug 14 17:30:01 geist: ping Aug 14 17:30:08 sliding out the kb turns on the lcd screen.. is that an event u could use? Aug 14 17:30:12 ok, and so on the palm you did EXPORT IPADDRESS=((The ip address of your mack)) Aug 14 17:30:24 yes, i did Aug 14 17:30:38 and then rsync --daemon etc etc etc..... Aug 14 17:31:03 yes Aug 14 17:31:22 I was lazy and used copy/paste Aug 14 17:31:30 and then on the MAC at the command line you did the same sort of thing in reverse, with the export and the rsync -HRLPT bla bla bla Aug 14 17:31:49 yes Aug 14 17:32:02 which device gave you the errir? Aug 14 17:32:10 the Mac Aug 14 17:32:25 do you by any chance have the port for rsync firewalled? Aug 14 17:32:47 either on the mac, or on your router? Aug 14 17:32:55 i don't believe so. I don't have one on my router Aug 14 17:32:58 let me check my mac Aug 14 17:33:09 I didn't install one, but it oculd be enabled by default Aug 14 17:33:20 nodnod and 873 is "odd" Aug 14 17:33:47 no Aug 14 17:33:57 the firewall on the mac is set to allow all incoming connections Aug 14 17:34:05 but this is outgoing Aug 14 17:34:08 but fine Aug 14 17:34:28 on the pre, do netstat -tulp Aug 14 17:34:47 k Aug 14 17:35:00 you shuld show rsync listening Aug 14 17:35:01 what am I looking for? Aug 14 17:35:33 I don't see rsync Aug 14 17:35:40 pastebin please. Aug 14 17:35:51 sur Aug 14 17:36:40 done, look for BeingBoston Aug 14 17:38:11 I dont think rsync is running Aug 14 17:38:12 BeingBoston_: it's traditional to paste a link as well Aug 14 17:38:25 please do ps auxw | grep rsync Aug 14 17:38:32 thnx destinal Aug 14 17:38:33 and see if you have an instance of rsync running Aug 14 17:38:51 destinal he was the first one at the top of the left column, so I got there. Aug 14 17:39:04 and I don't see an entry that could be his rsync daemon Aug 14 17:39:22 it's not running, on the grep line came back Aug 14 17:39:25 hmm Aug 14 17:39:50 tech support call -- bbiab Aug 14 17:40:04 k Aug 14 17:42:13 destinal: ping Aug 14 17:44:13 back Aug 14 17:44:58 So, BeingBoston_ try the rsync --daemon line again. which didn't work the first time, then look at ps and netstat -- because if it isn't running,the mac can't request a transfer..... Aug 14 17:45:03 rsync is PULL not PUSH Aug 14 17:45:11 ok Aug 14 17:45:17 rsync can be push Aug 14 17:45:42 bougyman true. I should have said "rsync as we have described using it on the wiki is pull not push" Aug 14 17:45:44 sorry Aug 14 17:45:58 i just use unison Aug 14 17:46:15 PuffTheMagic: pong Aug 14 17:46:22 and if you would write that up for everyone on a wiki page we would link it prominately Aug 14 17:46:25 bougyman Aug 14 17:46:31 what do you know about various omap3 boards Aug 14 17:46:37 Rick_work: the unison method? Aug 14 17:46:38 i saw something about android on the pre Aug 14 17:46:47 since remember what's "just" for you bougyman is totally unknown for others (like me) Aug 14 17:46:48 and those devs are using a zoom2 board as reference Aug 14 17:47:04 bougyman I have no idea what unison is..... Aug 14 17:47:05 i ran the rsync cmd, got the prompt back, but it isn't listed in netstat or in ps Aug 14 17:47:08 PuffTheMagic: I know some people have ported android to beagleboards also Aug 14 17:47:15 perhaps just link the unison howto, as i'd just be rewriting it. Aug 14 17:47:44 http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/ Aug 14 17:47:46 bougyman naaaa Aug 14 17:47:51 which is an OMAP3530-based board Aug 14 17:48:06 :/ Aug 14 17:48:20 i just wonder if i really need to port all this sirloin shit Aug 14 17:48:33 bougyman there's no step-by-step on those pages. Aug 14 17:48:38 or at least I don't see one. Aug 14 17:48:43 the 3430SDP is not a good based it seems Aug 14 17:49:01 the rsyncd.conf file references /var/run/rsyncd.pid but I don't see that file when i do an ls on that dir Aug 14 17:49:26 that would be a problem Aug 14 17:49:43 find / | grep rsyncd.pid BeingBoston_ Aug 14 17:50:28 Rick_work: that's in unison -doc tutorial Aug 14 17:50:31 it's in the etc.. Aug 14 17:50:36 i'll edit the file and try again Aug 14 17:50:36 Texas Instruments provided a development device based on OMAP3430 processor called Zoom OMAP34x Mobile Development Kit (MKD) Aug 14 17:50:55 bougyman a link isn't an explanation of why it's good, or a step by step of how to install it ON THE PRE..... or why you might want to do this INSTEAD of rsync. Aug 14 17:50:58 ok guys Aug 14 17:51:06 here is the question Aug 14 17:51:10 and that is what the android people were doing for pre work Aug 14 17:51:37 should i go to work today Aug 14 17:51:45 get some extra $$ Aug 14 17:51:46 bougyman one of the things is, people don't have the information to MAKE the decisions that the tutorial calls for. Aug 14 17:51:59 or sit home and play with me pre Aug 14 17:52:20 Rick_work: their home page describes that well. Aug 14 17:52:24 bougyman consider writing a STRIPPED DOWN howto do a backup of a pre assuming YOU make all the decisions. The tutorial is a teaching document on Unison, not a howto. Aug 14 17:52:29 i'm just a big fan of DRY Aug 14 17:53:01 bougyman you underestimate the inablility of users to figure stuff out. Aug 14 17:53:19 and I gotta say, as far as I can see,their home page does NOT describe that well...... Aug 14 17:53:31 hmmm Aug 14 17:53:47 eh? Aug 14 17:53:53 bullet point two is pretty clear. Aug 14 17:54:06 but as you say, if you're not willing to do the wiki page, and make a series of links to their docs -- why this is cool -- how to install -- how to do a backup ,,, at a minimum, then, you have to figure that the end users aren't going to find it or use it. Aug 14 17:54:08 rsync shows up in netstat now! and the daemon is running! Aug 14 17:54:11 al the bulletpoints do. Aug 14 17:54:40 PuffTheMagic: http://elinux.org/Zoom2Beginners Aug 14 17:54:46 http://git.omapzoom.org/repo/omapkernel.git Aug 14 17:54:47 :D Aug 14 17:55:02 and the cmd on the host is churning through the files! Thanks Rick_work_ Aug 14 17:55:19 welcome BeingBoston_ Aug 14 17:55:35 repetative appliction of logic step by step. Aug 14 17:55:36 sparticus! Aug 14 17:55:43 PuffTheMagic: Wow the zoom2 is way way more expensive than a pre Aug 14 17:55:44 that, and 25 years of front-line tech support Aug 14 17:56:07 but it's got M$ software on it Aug 14 17:56:08 PuffTheMagic: I think the pre is an attractive alternative as a OMAP3430 dev environment :) Aug 14 17:56:14 which makes it worth the extra price] Aug 14 17:56:31 What level of support do you do Rick_work_? Aug 14 17:56:55 dijital1: it dos? Aug 14 17:57:02 sure Aug 14 17:57:08 i mean it's not an iphone :) Aug 14 17:57:47 I think the zoom2 is just a dev platform -- if it comes with anything it's probably some linux Aug 14 17:57:54 I am one of two partners in a small vertical market software development firm. I am the system designer for the VocShop series of products for sheltered workshops for mentally retarded adults Aug 14 17:58:10 and along with two others provide support to our 130+ clients nationally. Aug 14 17:58:17 http://www.vocshop.com Aug 14 17:58:57 we are frequently the tech support provider of last resort for ANY problem they have, since they pay us, we'll listen. :-) Aug 14 17:59:11 lol, nice system Aug 14 17:59:48 i did low level server support for a win enviroment and tipical helpdesk work for 3 years and got pretty burned out on it Aug 14 18:00:17 PuffTheMagic: is their tree tracking a current linux version? Aug 14 18:00:29 they are tracking lots of trees Aug 14 18:00:59 what do you gain from using zoom kernel? Aug 14 18:01:05 it's faster Aug 14 18:01:19 * destinal smacks dijital1 with a large trout Aug 14 18:01:20 BeingBoston_ I would in that environment. But we're mostly supporting stuff we wrote. Aug 14 18:01:26 and sounds cool... mor efficient. shorter variable names Aug 14 18:01:28 :) Aug 14 18:01:40 dijital1: and comes with a free pony? Aug 14 18:01:44 do you enjoy making stuff up>? Aug 14 18:01:45 tmzt: i didnt say i gain anything Aug 14 18:01:46 :P Aug 14 18:01:56 tmzt: im just looking for code that might work on the pre Aug 14 18:02:02 don't ridiculous Aug 14 18:02:05 comes with a mule Aug 14 18:02:06 linux-omap git? Aug 14 18:02:48 that's the kind of support I wouldn't mind doing Rick_work_ You know the systems and the quirks Aug 14 18:03:15 nodnod Aug 14 18:03:26 that, and explaining things is my special gift Aug 14 18:03:58 Edaug: you around? Aug 14 18:04:08 brb, switching clients Aug 14 18:04:11 that should be egaudet :) Aug 14 18:05:34 Much better Aug 14 18:05:48 yea Aug 14 18:05:55 but not really Aug 14 18:06:07 there are no good irc clients Aug 14 18:06:13 there are only ones that are less bad. Aug 14 18:06:18 lol Aug 14 18:06:22 I like bits and pieces of several Aug 14 18:06:27 but none are just what I want Aug 14 18:06:56 mirc at work - no highlight when people call my name Aug 14 18:06:58 Egaudet: not sure about a system call, but look in /sys/class/kbd_bl_led_center then there is the typical brightness file. It will be 0 when the keyboard is closed/screen off and 40 when it is slid out Aug 14 18:07:28 irssi Aug 14 18:07:37 i haven't used IRC in depth since 01 in college, i'm using Colloquy on my mac Aug 14 18:07:40 no PING when people call your name. That's one of the things I like about chatzilla. Customizeable per channel pings on a LIST of names. Aug 14 18:08:06 awesome work on the keyboard Lord Rick :D Aug 14 18:08:10 I use Snak on mine Aug 14 18:09:25 not my work Aug 14 18:09:35 egaudet_work did it Aug 14 18:09:51 well to everyone the work here is awesome as well all know Aug 14 18:09:51 I've coached, I've facilitated, I noticed the SYM keyboard that everyone was overlooking Aug 14 18:10:02 * Eguy-work bows to egaudet Aug 14 18:10:03 but egaudet_work did the engineering Aug 14 18:10:35 Still don't know how we went OVER a month without noticing that Palm had an on-screen kb ON THE PRE already.... Aug 14 18:10:44 That's so funny how we all completely overlooked that Rick_work Aug 14 18:10:55 it is. Aug 14 18:11:12 but once I saw it.... I decided to be the voice calling out. Aug 14 18:11:22 that KB patch is on the the top of my list as soon as i get a replacement Pre (batt reset issue) Aug 14 18:11:28 although, the continuous reboots got to me pretty quickly Aug 14 18:11:52 I remember thinking about the keyboard before reading your stuff on it, and then when I read your ideas about the sym popup I was like "duh! lol" Aug 14 18:12:07 I have NEVER seen a file as totally FUSSY as alternatechar_table.json Aug 14 18:12:31 I hate that damn file lol Aug 14 18:12:53 and the lack of any kind of error handler in the interpretor for that file sucks. Luna starting OVER AND OVER AND OVER.... Aug 14 18:13:04 I wanted to fling the damned pre across the room. Aug 14 18:13:11 question: Should I factory reset the Pre before Going to Sprint so they don't see the 3rd party apps and the hacks? Seems like an obvious Yes but I'm wondering what others have done Aug 14 18:13:13 haha yea I know what you mean Aug 14 18:13:39 at first I thought I had done something horrid and was going for the doctor, when I thought... no, no all I did was edit 1 character in that file. Put it back. Aug 14 18:13:53 lol Aug 14 18:13:59 o_) Aug 14 18:14:00 All I was trying to do was get the REGULAR sym keyboard to show an "A" Aug 14 18:14:12 thinking that that would be proof of concept. Aug 14 18:14:19 damned thing. Aug 14 18:14:51 I made the huge mistake of doing a biggg edit on that file at first... then incrementally undid changes about 100 times before realizing I accidentally put a " inside a "" without \" Aug 14 18:15:10 a little over an hours work got me up to H before I realized the same thing. Aug 14 18:15:28 The first time, I thought "THIS IS GOING TO BE SO EASY" and I edited in the entire alphabet all at once. Aug 14 18:15:31 ha Aug 14 18:15:36 and further more HA! Aug 14 18:15:40 teach me.... Aug 14 18:15:41 hahah yea Aug 14 18:15:55 so I went to letter by letter.... and by H I was ready to kill something. Aug 14 18:16:16 then I figured out what I was doing wrong. but it's a VERY fussy file. Aug 14 18:16:34 yea, for the kb I'm gonna modify it to get rid of the list concept as well Aug 14 18:16:36 Time to venture into the real world! bbl, Thanks for the help everyone Aug 14 18:16:37 AND I didn't understand until the other day that it IGNORED the difference between DISPLAY and insert. Aug 14 18:17:05 what difference? Aug 14 18:17:12 point Aug 14 18:18:24 ohhh yea, I guess they just stopped caring about the letter field lol Aug 14 18:18:48 exactly. Aug 14 18:19:31 Either they were planning/working on kb support or someone at Palm just didn't want to take it out when they didn't need it Aug 14 18:19:35 if they hadn't, and if the file were more user-friendly, you could use it for a macro keyboard. Press r to insert "rboatright@gmail.com" press w to insert http:\\www.webos-internals.org" etc. Aug 14 18:19:55 yea, well the onscreen kb will allow for that :) Aug 14 18:20:11 but since they decided to ignore the letter field, it makes it kind of pointless Aug 14 18:20:31 Also, it would have been NICE if there was a way to put TWO characters in a cell. Aug 14 18:21:08 a1 inserts Rick Boatright/n3410SW Van Buren/nTopeka, ks 66611 and a2 insertsmy HOME address. Aug 14 18:21:17 Yea that part is much tricker though, due to the decision to template the layout Aug 14 18:21:26 but again, whoeverdid the sym kb did as much as they HAD to do and then, stopped. Aug 14 18:21:48 egaudet_work : have you seen engadget? Aug 14 18:21:51 how de Aug 14 18:21:54 no Aug 14 18:21:55 howdy Aug 14 18:21:59 howdy back Aug 14 18:22:11 Thanks. Aug 14 18:22:11 max_ ... no? Aug 14 18:22:18 egaudet: Will that file help you track down what you need? Aug 14 18:22:20 yeah, onscreen kb is there Aug 14 18:22:29 Ikyo, the led file? Aug 14 18:22:32 http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/14/pre-gets-the-on-screen-keyboard-its-been-missing-yet-has-alway/ Aug 14 18:23:06 yes Aug 14 18:24:38 its nice to be back on irc... its been a while.. "the things the pre is making me do" Aug 14 18:24:45 nice egaudet-work Aug 14 18:25:41 awesome :) Aug 14 18:26:37 Ikyo, it may be a last resort type of thing. I'd have to write a service to poll it, and then the code would be assuming one thing based on another (keyboard out due to led) which I want to avoid Aug 14 18:28:44 egaudet_work the comments on engaget are even stupider than the comments at precentral Aug 14 18:28:54 egaudet: It wouldn't be assuming anything. The value only changes to 40 when the keyboard is out. If you sleep the device with it out, it will go back to 40 once the screen turns back on. The only issue might be it would disable the onscreen as long as the keyboard is out. I wouldn't say that is bad at all. Aug 14 18:30:03 There has to be a call that changes that value. Just need to track down what it is. Aug 14 18:30:45 is preload now using the preware repositiory? Aug 14 18:31:46 Rick_work, seriously. It's like people are angry about options. They think we removed their slideout keyboard lol Aug 14 18:32:01 Ikyo, it assumes that things will not change in the future Aug 14 18:33:59 the most recent comment on precentral asks AGAIN if it will work in landscape. Thefreaking POST says it works in landscape. Aug 14 18:34:02 Jeeezz Aug 14 18:34:09 this is not lake Wobegon. Aug 14 18:34:20 haha Aug 14 18:34:39 ppl should read Aug 14 18:35:46 There also looks like there is a socket for it so that might help some too. Aug 14 18:36:00 Have in mind people from Precentral are not as intelectual as we are. Aug 14 18:36:08 ok can i take screenshot in landscape mode? Aug 14 18:36:21 Hey guys, if I run webOS Doctor, will I need to contact Sprint at all to reactivate the phone after the Doctor is done? I've seen references to needing the MSL code... Aug 14 18:36:44 thatdude, right but reading 1 paragraph isn't exactly beyond reasonable expectation Aug 14 18:36:53 indeed Aug 14 18:37:12 but that's how things are, a lot of people read the title and then jump to the comment box Aug 14 18:37:47 tilted: i did it and didnt need to change anything Aug 14 18:37:54 everything got back in place Aug 14 18:38:18 same here tilted Aug 14 18:38:32 ok, thanks guys Aug 14 18:48:01 egaudet_work: Lol, 1 paragraph is too much for people. They can't even search one word in Google search engine so imagine reading. Aug 14 18:49:13 tilted: you shouldn't need to -- it should automatically reactivate Aug 14 18:51:12 egaudet_work: Would an even such as them pressing a key work (Mojo.Even.Keypress) Aug 14 18:52:51 yea the keypress would most likely work and is the path I think I will go down if I can't find a way to get the slide event Aug 14 18:56:09 something has to be called to change the LED value Aug 14 18:58:00 I cannot assume who and what would want to change the LED value going forward Aug 14 18:58:17 or I would rather not assume should I say Aug 14 19:02:50 trying to see if it create anything in a database or something Aug 14 19:03:58 ohh I think you have to call a service (brightness unlinked app probably does this) Aug 14 19:04:27 I think it's part of the display service that requires app name of com.palm... to be used Aug 14 19:07:33 I just need to vent on the following: Pre > iPhone > G1 - It's that open source phone that I have always dreamed about. Aug 14 19:07:55 * thatdude feels great now! Aug 14 19:11:08 alright off to the mechanic, see you guys later Aug 14 19:11:57 later Aug 14 19:12:07 im off to lunch also... sushi !! Aug 14 19:12:45 btw if anyone has a chance i think the new install script in modifications/ removes all patches in the quilt series and then reinstalls only the one you selected. If anyone has a chance to fix, bbl Aug 14 19:16:50 Ikyo: you could probably use my ledsercice to change the led value :) Aug 14 19:19:16 I hate to keep bugging you guys, but I am still having some issues with rsync Aug 14 19:19:40 I had my pre on the touchstone and noticed it had reset Aug 14 19:19:53 BeingBoston: stop powerd Aug 14 19:20:01 if you want it not to sleep for a long background operation. Aug 14 19:20:06 then start powerd when it's done. Aug 14 19:20:09 Puff: egaudet needs it for his keyboard. He wants to see if the keyboard slider went out Aug 14 19:20:38 i ssh;ed bac in to start the rsync deamon but it won't start now Aug 14 19:20:51 thanks bougyman_ i'll do that Aug 14 19:20:53 perhaps a lockfile or pidfile? Aug 14 19:21:01 but would that cause the daemon not to start? Aug 14 19:21:14 a lockfile or pidfile may. Aug 14 19:21:19 i dunno how you're runnign it Aug 14 19:21:44 I'm following the guide on the wiki verbatim Aug 14 19:21:59 i set my host IP and exported it Aug 14 19:22:21 then copied and pasted the rsync --daemon command Aug 14 19:22:40 but wen I run a ps -ef | grep rsync i don't see it running Aug 14 19:23:04 it doesn't appear in netstat -tulp either Aug 14 19:26:55 any ideas? Aug 14 19:28:58 sorry, bbl. any help would be great! Aug 14 19:30:27 moin Aug 14 19:30:40 can someone help me with the latest Terminal app update? Aug 14 19:34:34 BeingBoston sorry Aug 14 19:35:03 BeingBoston find / | grep rsync Aug 14 19:35:15 see if there's a pid file or a lock file Aug 14 19:35:24 you may need to recreate the pid you created before Aug 14 19:35:30 you may need to delete a lock file Aug 14 19:39:57 Anybody able to help and explain an issue I am having with the last step of the setting up of quilt Aug 14 19:40:10 I get an error when i clone the webos-internals modifications repository Aug 14 19:49:44 I can't help and the quilt folks come and go Aug 14 19:50:04 destinal PuffTheMagic might be able to helpif they're still around Aug 14 19:50:32 im not touching quilt with a 10 foot poll Aug 14 19:50:57 esp in context of some modifications installer script Aug 14 19:51:00 i resolved my quilt problems with the -d argument Aug 14 19:51:17 anyways anyone using the new Terminal app? Aug 14 19:52:11 hello, I am trying to write a script to make a roaming on/off switch in the barasisstant in the same way there is a toggle phone radio switch, and i am having trouble with the code I wrote, is there anyone who wouldnt mind taking a look and seeing if anything is glaringly obviously wrong? Aug 14 19:52:25 *in the code i wrote Aug 14 19:55:02 anyone here? lol Aug 14 19:56:11 jefe00: nope, noone Aug 14 19:56:39 egaudet great job with the virtual kb Aug 14 19:57:22 jefe00: there already is a way to disable roaming Aug 14 19:57:28 why man another? Aug 14 19:57:29 i know that Aug 14 19:57:33 s/man/make/ Aug 14 19:57:33 PuffTheMagic meant: why make another? Aug 14 19:57:33 im making a switch Aug 14 19:57:36 damn transmission problems :( Aug 14 19:57:36 from the bar assistant Aug 14 19:57:45 to turn it off in the same way you can turn on and off wifi bluetooth or phone radio Aug 14 19:58:26 or does that exist as well? Aug 14 19:58:54 i'm pretty sure it does Aug 14 19:59:01 bbl Aug 14 19:59:03 I looked and could not find Aug 14 19:59:09 i turned off my data roaming Aug 14 19:59:19 in the phone preferences menu Aug 14 19:59:22 ? Aug 14 19:59:25 or from the homescreen Aug 14 19:59:42 from the phone prefs Aug 14 19:59:43 Puff: how did the kernel go? Aug 14 19:59:49 "sprint only" Aug 14 19:59:59 instead of "automatic Aug 14 20:00:00 right Aug 14 20:00:06 so im trying to make something like the following: Aug 14 20:00:13 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_webOS_Radio_Power_Switch Aug 14 20:00:22 Except where it says "turn off phone" Aug 14 20:00:25 it says "turn off roaming" Aug 14 20:00:30 there's already one Aug 14 20:00:32 and i can toggle roaming from there Aug 14 20:00:48 data roaming is free, unless you use a whole bunch, just in case people didnt know Aug 14 20:00:56 (only in the US, though) Aug 14 20:01:00 gkatsev, really? Aug 14 20:01:11 yes data roaming is included in simply everything plan Aug 14 20:01:12 * Technobabble turns that shit back on then Aug 14 20:01:15 Technobabble: yep, sprint provides free roaming if you use it within reason Aug 14 20:01:36 They offer 500mb of data roaming, if I recall correctly Aug 14 20:02:32 well, all i know is "free roaming within reason." there might be more official data, though, i dont care that much since i rarely roam, great coverage here in boston Aug 14 20:14:42 back Aug 14 20:17:02 hi Rick_work_ I did the grep cmd and I don't see any locks Aug 14 20:17:17 the pid file is still there and looks fine when i opened it Aug 14 20:20:35 rather the PID file has just one line. Is this created automatically? Aug 14 20:22:58 Being: yes, it is created by the script when you run it. Aug 14 20:23:31 ok Aug 14 20:23:59 I just renamed the current file and am going to try again Aug 14 20:24:48 and there it is! Just had to blow away the PID file Aug 14 20:25:09 what purpose does the PID file serve? Aug 14 20:27:13 BeingBoston: to keep track of the process id of the daemon, so it can be killed, restarted and signaled Aug 14 20:27:48 tmzt: cool, thanks. I'm always wondering how to fix things and why they broke Aug 14 20:30:00 strange, the Pre reset it's self again during the process Aug 14 20:30:16 same behavior as before Aug 14 20:30:43 wow, I had no idea how similar ipkg and dpkg are. nearly identical really at least in package format and on-disk representation of installed packages. ipkg only really seems to be different in how the program itself works Aug 14 20:31:22 clearly ipkg's format and store layout were copied from debian's stuff Aug 14 20:31:44 very good idea on the part of the ipkg folks Aug 14 20:35:04 sounds like ti is trying to copy a file that it doesn't like Aug 14 20:37:17 sorry i just had an emergency to tend to, however, I was seeing if anyone would be willing to take a look at the patch I created and see if it looks sound, because I cannot get it working properly on my device. Aug 14 20:37:35 *I was asking earlier, but had to leave Aug 14 20:43:12 err, rsync keeps dying on me. this time "Permission denied (13)" twice and the Pre reset Aug 14 20:43:56 reset? Aug 14 20:44:02 is there any reason to backup the /sys dir? Aug 14 20:44:11 yeah, the screen goes back and the phone reboots Aug 14 20:44:54 I can't see why that would happen Aug 14 20:45:18 i thought maybe the rsync was accessing files being used by the OS Aug 14 20:45:29 didn't htink that would cause the reset though Aug 14 20:45:34 just throwing it out there Aug 14 20:45:54 not on linux :) Aug 14 20:45:58 ha Aug 14 20:46:03 something must have panic'd Aug 14 20:46:04 dont touch /proc and /sys Aug 14 20:46:06 can you get a log? Aug 14 20:46:08 oh Aug 14 20:46:10 and /dev Aug 14 20:46:10 that /sys Aug 14 20:46:25 where is the rsync log stored? Aug 14 20:46:28 but rsync shouldn't cross device boundaries by default, right? Aug 14 20:46:37 I mean dmesg/panic log Aug 14 20:46:42 if something exists like that Aug 14 20:47:19 -x, --one-file-system don't cross filesystem boundaries Aug 14 20:47:21 this Aug 14 20:47:23 not default Aug 14 20:48:09 anyone willing to look at the patch I created and see if it looks sound, because I cannot get it working properly on my device. Id really appreciate it. Aug 14 20:49:07 so where would I find the dmesg logs? Aug 14 20:49:35 I don't know Aug 14 20:49:51 since your device reboots they would have to be saeved in ram and retreived before booting linux Aug 14 20:50:44 err Aug 14 20:53:33 how do I stop powerd from putting the Pre to sleep? Aug 14 20:53:47 wiki? Aug 14 20:53:52 ~powerd Aug 14 20:54:00 infobot: powerd? Aug 14 20:54:01 You can just type dmesg on the pre Aug 14 20:54:09 after reboot? Aug 14 20:54:29 the phone is back up and running, i'd like to stop the service while i run rsync Aug 14 20:54:44 i looked in the wiki Aug 14 20:54:49 responding to Ikyo Aug 14 20:55:29 not sure it will work after reboot...you could also look at /var/log/messages and see if there is anything in there Aug 14 20:55:43 not likely on panic Aug 14 20:56:08 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Backing_Up_via_Rsync Aug 14 20:56:22 i am following that ty Aug 14 20:58:44 not sure why it would be rebooting then Aug 14 21:06:53 anyone using this Patch? Messaging Change "Enter Key" To Create Newline Aug 14 21:10:19 Ikyo: I excluded the sys directory and I now have a successful backup Aug 14 21:10:34 gizmodo also covered it, just noticed: http://gizmodo.com/5337470/palm-pre-finally-gets-that-onscreen-keyboard-its-been-wanting-no-thanks-to-palm Aug 14 21:12:39 and /gear: http://www.slashgear.com/palm-pre-starts-to-get-more-virtual-with-its-keyboard-1452369/ Aug 14 21:16:43 If you’re one of the lucky owners of a Palm Pre, but you’re wishing that you had a little bit more to type with than that relatively cramped physical keyboard, Aug 14 21:19:42 anyone know where I can Download a clean, unpatched copy of some js files......in particular compose-assistant.js and chatview-assistant.js? Aug 14 21:19:44 how long before it gets slashdotted. Aug 14 21:19:49 crap, getting the FAILED_NOT_ENOUGH_INSTALL_SPACE error now Aug 14 21:20:08 mikepre all those files are available in webosdoctor Aug 14 21:20:16 download that, and extract them. Aug 14 21:21:03 oh, they are in the Jar file? Aug 14 21:21:13 yep Aug 14 21:21:41 in the rootfs image tar. Aug 14 21:22:15 thanks, I think I messed those two up triying to add in the Enter Key for Create Newline, since I already patched wiht something else, so line numbers and fields were all diff.... Aug 14 21:23:25 mikepre: isnt it in the git patch repo? Aug 14 21:23:41 anyway Aug 14 21:23:44 * gkatsev -> home Aug 14 21:23:45 ttyl Aug 14 21:25:04 i will check... Aug 14 21:30:57 I have a general question regarding the pathches in the git patch repo.....if there is more than 1 that I want to apply, and they both access the same js file, can it be assumed that the 2nd one will apply successfully, or they are all based on a clean JS file Aug 14 21:33:13 morning Aug 14 21:36:17 only one will apply because they are based on a clean file Aug 14 21:37:01 enio: btw, atlanta gave you wrong advice aout the postinst and prerm scripts - see the Terminal wiki pge for the correct way to respond to those offline root mode messages from ipkg -o /var. Never use ipkg without the -o /var switch - it will splat over palm's internal ipkg database if you do. Aug 14 21:39:33 anyone know of a way to bind an object to a function so when it changes i can parse the new data? Aug 14 21:48:15 associate an id? Aug 14 21:49:27 yo Aug 14 21:49:34 this thing on? Aug 14 21:50:16 it is. Aug 14 21:51:01 damn. god bless it. im on irssi on my phone. Aug 14 21:51:12 had it in my pocket.. still connected. Aug 14 21:52:35 but now its goin off. Aug 14 22:10:50 is anyone using the updated Terminal app? Aug 14 22:17:12 sup Aug 14 22:18:49 hows the kb coming eh Aug 14 22:20:47 it's coming Aug 14 22:24:20 egaudet_: that's you? is that a mojo program or something else? Aug 14 22:25:17 it's a patch to the mojo framework yea Aug 14 22:29:25 anyboyd mind helping me troubleshoot a problem with my ddns on the pre in pm? Aug 14 22:29:50 you always ask in main Aug 14 22:32:36 rwhitby: we need a #webos-internals-support channel Aug 14 22:32:51 this channel should be for dev questions/talk not help Aug 14 22:34:42 meh, a big reason I'm hanging out is to offer help... Aug 14 22:39:55 PBD: What problem are you having? Aug 14 22:40:16 how Aug 14 22:41:05 * Rick_work going home Aug 14 22:41:07 bbiab Aug 14 22:41:16 lates Aug 14 22:42:00 Ikyo:Using the url-based version from the wiki, and the service is working fine, typgin wget in terminal works fine, but the update script doesn't run when ip updates Aug 14 22:44:49 can the pre run nfs server Aug 14 22:46:07 or how would i mount from the pre to my pc to copy files easier Aug 14 22:48:08 use novacom to copy files and get filelistings Aug 14 22:48:34 egaudet_: Nautilus can mount ssh. so it's show up just like an external hd Aug 14 22:48:56 czarphanguye, you know off hand how to do that? Aug 14 22:49:22 or is Nautilus the gui Aug 14 22:49:24 egaudet_: Yes, File -> connect to server -> service type: ssh. Server/port/etc.. Aug 14 22:49:47 just click 'add bookmark' and I'll save Aug 14 22:49:54 you don't know the lower level commands so I can mount it to a specified directory? Aug 14 22:50:43 egaudet_: sudo apt-get install sshfs, then sshfs example.com:/stuff /media/home-pc Aug 14 22:51:40 http://fuse.sourceforge.net/sshfs.html Aug 14 22:52:33 why the heck is it asking me for the cd? Aug 14 22:53:06 egaudet_: gotta update your /etc/apt/sources.list and remove the cd and uncomment the other external sources Aug 14 22:54:01 ahhh oh yea that's right I added it last month so i could get the ndiswrapper at my parents house Aug 14 22:54:13 sweet thanks a lot czarphanguye Aug 14 22:54:22 egaudet_: yw Aug 14 22:58:04 is there a way to mount the internal directory as ext3 or something as well? Aug 14 22:59:21 Technobabble: /media/internal? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_device is prob easiest. Aug 14 23:01:38 Technobabble: there are also wiki pages on how to resize /media/internal and create a new lvm volume for stuff like /opt Aug 14 23:02:18 i guess the better question would be: how do i connect to it from my linux machine Aug 14 23:02:20 we expect that will cause problems if Palm ever decide to do an OTA resize of the LVM partitions, so we don't suggest that for people who don't know what LVM is. Aug 14 23:02:48 Technobabble: scp or sshfs Aug 14 23:03:03 just like egaudet is doing ;-) Aug 14 23:03:06 is there a wiki page on either of those Aug 14 23:04:23 rwhitby: you need to stop scaring people about an OTA resize Aug 14 23:04:43 PuffTheMagic: I've never done it, cause rwhitby scared me out of it ;-) Aug 14 23:04:50 i did the reseize Aug 14 23:04:55 i have a 1gig /opt now Aug 14 23:05:03 and its not on a loop image Aug 14 23:05:09 * czarphanguye is envious Aug 14 23:05:14 just do it Aug 14 23:06:11 PuffTheMagic: You're recommend it? Aug 14 23:06:34 well loop on vfat has the issue that is breaks mounting in mass storage mode Aug 14 23:06:47 and resize you have rwhitby's threats of ota resize Aug 14 23:06:53 but since im not afraid of that Aug 14 23:06:56 i did it Aug 14 23:08:13 PuffTheMagic: is it fun to install a load of ipkg-opt apps without the space issue? Aug 14 23:10:08 must be ;-) Aug 14 23:10:31 PuffTheMagic: when the Senior Director of Core OS Software from Palm tells you that they put LVM on the device specifically so they could do OTA resize operations, you gotta expect that it's gonna happen at some time in the future. And it's believable cause there is really no other reason why you would use LVM, and it's not a standard OpenEmbedded rootfs setup so Palm has gone to a lot of work to put it in there. Aug 14 23:11:22 All that given, anyone who wants to follow the procedure on the wiki to do it should just go and do it. Aug 14 23:11:58 The worst that can happen is they will need to use the webOS Doctor at some time in the future. Anyone in this channel will probably do that monthly anyway. Aug 14 23:12:09 imho, webos term + ssh + home pc running screen is just fine. no need for more junk on the pre atm. Aug 14 23:12:18 not I Aug 14 23:12:21 I did that once. Aug 14 23:12:27 now I do everything in my debian chroot Aug 14 23:12:29 I came here to query about the Error message after running talk.py O.O Aug 14 23:12:43 rwhitby: why would creating a lvm partition break anything? Aug 14 23:12:52 I would hope they use volume names, not numbers Aug 14 23:12:54 Anon2456: talk.py is way obsolete. Which wiki instructions are you following? Aug 14 23:13:04 http://www.everythingpre.com/forum/homebrew-apps/how-to-root-the-pre-20035.html Aug 14 23:13:18 on the http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Backing_Up_via_Rsync page, it says to edit the /etc/rsyncd.conf. did they mean the /opt/etc/rysncd.conf? Aug 14 23:13:28 tmzt: when they calculate the new sizes for the partitions, they would not be taking your extra partition into account and would probably fail as a result. Aug 14 23:13:32 interesting convo, but gotta afk. ttyl Aug 14 23:13:48 rwhitby: what do you mean? Aug 14 23:13:51 Anon2456: use the instructions from our wiki instead. Aug 14 23:13:59 Where would that be? Aug 14 23:14:04 Nevermind. Aug 14 23:15:03 i'm scared... Aug 14 23:15:16 tmzt: Say they want to size up /var and size down /media/internal. They would simply hard-code the new sizes, since it is a constrained environment where they know the exact size of partitions on all shipped devices. They wouldn't do the extra work to take a possible extra partition size into account. Aug 14 23:15:21 palm just called me for applications i want to submit to the app catalog Aug 14 23:15:26 how did they get my number??? Aug 14 23:15:38 PreGame: did they call your Pre? Aug 14 23:15:43 yes Aug 14 23:15:54 they be spyin on me Aug 14 23:15:58 heh - they know *everything* about your Pre. Aug 14 23:16:15 yeap, your pre upload data to them Aug 14 23:16:17 I have novaterm running, now what? Aug 14 23:16:22 I'm lost at this step. Aug 14 23:16:30 its all on the wiki Aug 14 23:16:38 but how did they know what number my phone was??? it doesn't have my full name in my pre Aug 14 23:16:51 PreGame: Palm Profile? Aug 14 23:16:59 PreGame: Sprint account? Aug 14 23:17:06 i doubt they are getting it from sprint Aug 14 23:17:16 voodoo? Aug 14 23:17:18 Anon: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps Aug 14 23:17:28 the only thing i can think of is he took my email address that we were talking in and looked it up in their super database Aug 14 23:17:55 when signing up for dev access it doesn't ask for a cell number does it? Aug 14 23:19:29 How do I write to the pre /usr/palm/ with it mounted sshfs? Aug 14 23:19:39 Is that possible or no Aug 14 23:20:54 cd /tmp wget http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/raw/master/optware-bootstrap.sh sh optware-bootstrap.sh Aug 14 23:21:06 whoops Aug 14 23:21:15 failed to connect to novacomd Aug 14 23:22:48 rwhitby: well, I'm not sure why they would do that, it seems to negate using lvm entirely Aug 14 23:23:24 tmzt: do what? assume that the device is in the same state as they shipped it? Aug 14 23:24:28 don't the lvm-utils make it difficult to enforce the size of a new volume though, it's not like you just write a fixed partition table to a device Aug 14 23:24:58 I mean you can control the size of a new volume, but aren't you more focused on the minimum size when you do that? Aug 14 23:25:10 been a while since I worked with lvm though Aug 14 23:26:19 tmzt: in my use of lvm on the desktop you've had to specify the exact size Aug 14 23:26:50 well, okay Aug 14 23:26:58 is the lvm partition currently allocated? Aug 14 23:27:48 they use the full flash size for the current partitions Aug 14 23:31:15 woooo, got rsync going Aug 14 23:33:01 what is the easiest way to copy files to my pre's root-only directory Aug 14 23:33:37 I am so sick of scp me@blah:/huge/ass/path/name/takes/forever/to/type/out/with/no/tab/completion same/crap/still/with/tab/completion/crap/bah Aug 14 23:34:03 egaudet: what host OS are you using? Aug 14 23:34:21 ubuntu jaunty Aug 14 23:34:34 sshfs Aug 14 23:34:35 has any body seen the trapster app? Aug 14 23:34:36 should be able to mount it Aug 14 23:34:56 how can i use sshfs to mount it with root write priveleges though Aug 14 23:35:02 do I have to set a root password Aug 14 23:35:04 on pre Aug 14 23:35:09 egaudet: set a root password (which is not used) Aug 14 23:35:13 then use ssh keys for root Aug 14 23:35:15 install base-complete Aug 14 23:35:19 and use keys Aug 14 23:35:39 if sftp works sshfs should Aug 14 23:36:01 hey guys, are there some directories i could just as well exclude from my rsync backup? Aug 14 23:37:08 404 not found when trying to get bootstrap.sh Aug 14 23:37:19 i need a key from root on my ubuntu? Aug 14 23:38:26 Now its working. Aug 14 23:44:22 why can't i ssh to pre as root? Aug 14 23:45:10 ssh daemons don't like empty root passwords, and we set up dropbear and openssh to explicitly prevent root password login Aug 14 23:45:33 but root login with keys is fine, as long as you make sure the root password is not empty. Aug 14 23:47:25 im trying to ssh to pre as root@192.168.... Aug 14 23:52:13 Anyone know why the "Enabling WiFi Tethering..." message in My Tether doesn't change at all? Aug 14 23:53:13 wtf is up with timers in webos Aug 14 23:53:40 does this._timer = setTimeout(this.timerFunction,1000); not work anymore? Aug 14 23:56:06 this is stupid Aug 14 23:56:58 rwhitby, am I supposed to be able to ssh as root with the password i set up with passwd root Aug 14 23:57:27 PreGame: I think you gotta do something like window.setTimeout Aug 14 23:57:47 egaudet: rwhitby disabled root ssh Aug 14 23:57:59 you need to edit the optware-dropbear event.d file Aug 14 23:58:13 or use an ssh key Aug 14 23:58:21 i am trying to use an ssh key Aug 14 23:58:35 then maybe u still need to edit the event.d file Aug 14 23:59:26 egaudet: you need to set a root password first, but it's not used after that. Aug 14 23:59:28 im supposed to put the root ssh-keygen from my pc pub key into /var/home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys right Aug 14 23:59:35 then you need to set up key access. Aug 14 23:59:47 egaudet: are you running dropbear or openssh daemon? Aug 15 00:00:25 yea i tried that Aug 15 00:00:28 i even tried this._timer = this.controller.window.setTimeout(this.dTimer,1000); Aug 15 00:00:30 dropbear Aug 15 00:01:09 PreGame, this.timerFunction.bind(this)? Aug 15 00:01:37 egaudet: and the permissions on your home directory, the .ssh directory and the authorized_keys file are correct? Aug 15 00:02:05 (what is root's home directory set to on the Pre?) Aug 15 00:02:17 /var/home/root Aug 15 00:03:08 egaudet: what...? Aug 15 00:03:10 /var/home/root is wxr-xr-xr Aug 15 00:03:15 so /var, /var/home, /var/home/root, and /var/home/root/.ssh have to have go-w Aug 15 00:03:29 PreGame, bind your callback in call to setTimeout? Aug 15 00:03:31 and same for /var/home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys Aug 15 00:03:46 i shouldn't have to Aug 15 00:04:17 rwhitby, they have to chmod -w them al? Aug 15 00:09:56 not u-w, just go-w Aug 15 00:10:07 (assuming they are all owned by root) Aug 15 00:11:01 standard ssh daemon key file permission requirements. no-one other than the user in question must be able to modify the file (or move it, or rename it, or move any directory above it) Aug 15 00:13:05 so i cant do ssh root@pre from ubuntu not as root Aug 15 00:13:13 i can do ssh pre from sudo -i in ubuntu Aug 15 00:18:28 rwhitby, can I ever have root access to my pre's files mounted to my PC, while running non-root on my PC Aug 15 00:21:27 egaudet: change /etc/event.d/optware-dropbear Aug 15 00:22:07 line 26 to be: exec /opt/sbin/dropbear -F -p 222 Aug 15 00:22:44 I don't want password login Aug 15 00:22:56 i want key login, which works for root now but not my other user anymore Aug 15 00:23:09 debug1: Offering public key: /home/egaudet/.ssh/id_rsa Aug 15 00:23:09 debug1: Server accepts key: pkalg ssh-rsa blen 277 Aug 15 00:23:09 Agent admitted failure to sign using the key. Aug 15 00:23:28 did you create a key for that user? Aug 15 00:23:35 yes Aug 15 00:27:06 egaudet: as long as the other user on the PC can supply the correct root key to the Pre, you should be able to connect Aug 15 00:27:47 egaudet: or put the key for the other user on the PC into the authorized_keys file for root on the Pre Aug 15 00:29:29 i have both mine and root's public keys in authorized_keys file of /var/home/root/.ssh on pre Aug 15 00:31:58 not to mention my pre cannot ssh to my pc Aug 15 00:33:41 saw the engadget thing about webos internals and the onscreen keyboard.. Aug 15 00:33:42 nice Aug 15 00:34:24 sevensoft: you should follow @webosinternals on twitter to get the latest news before engadget (who are at least a day behind :-) Aug 15 00:34:59 bah.. twitter.. ;) Aug 15 00:35:21 i saw the screen grabs posted in here last night.. didn't know they were headed to engadget ... Aug 15 00:35:27 thats kewl tho.. Aug 15 00:35:39 egaudet: should we do a post to webos-internals-announce mailing list about they keyboard? Aug 15 00:36:16 what the flying hell Aug 15 00:36:47 * rwhitby notes that @chuq and @webosdev and a couple of other palm folks are following @webosinternals ... Aug 15 00:36:50 rwhitby, yea Aug 15 00:37:19 i dunno Aug 15 00:42:01 whatever the pre is stupid dumb as shit Aug 15 00:45:31 hello all Aug 15 00:45:39 what's the problem with Pre? Aug 15 00:45:53 i can't get my ssh keys working how i want Aug 15 00:46:25 it is probably PEBKAC but i blame pre Aug 15 00:47:53 egaudet: it's dsa? You chmod the ~/.ssh 0700? You chmod ~/.ssh/authorized_keys 0600? Aug 15 00:48:07 im trying to make a switch like the phone radio swtich that allows me to switch roaming on and off roaming from the top right corner menu. I have written a patch but it is not working correclt,y anyone mind taking a look at it? It is very small Aug 15 00:49:50 ctcp freenode-connect CLIENTINFO Aug 15 00:49:51 where do i put my public key? Aug 15 00:49:59 in /var/home/user/.ssh/authorized_keys Aug 15 00:50:01 sorry Aug 15 00:50:08 ~/.ssh/authorized_keys Aug 15 00:50:12 and i put my root public key in /var/home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys Aug 15 00:50:19 and sudo ssh from pc works Aug 15 00:50:22 user ssh doesnt Aug 15 00:50:31 Agent admitted failure to sign using the key. Aug 15 00:50:36 have we got a terminal that works again? 0.1.7 logs in directly as root, doesn't execute /etc/profile etc.. Aug 15 00:50:43 make dsa key, not rsa Aug 15 00:51:05 could someone point me to the right place if I am in the wrong place? Aug 15 00:51:09 dsa go in authorized_keys2 ? Aug 15 00:51:23 /home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys Aug 15 00:51:31 egaudet, for passwordless login to another server? - http://linuxproblem.org/art_9.html works fine Aug 15 00:53:53 rsa didn't work for me via dropbear, only dsa/dss Aug 15 00:55:24 ok you are the man czarphanguye Aug 15 00:55:25 * rwhitby bbl (little league soccer coaching - Sat morning here) Aug 15 00:55:39 egaudet: <3 Aug 15 00:56:02 now that part is over with... if i want to ssh root@pre from myuser i need to put my user public key in pre's /home/root/.ssh yes? Aug 15 00:56:34 sweeeeeeet Aug 15 00:56:40 now i can finally get back to coding! Aug 15 00:56:42 lol Aug 15 00:58:42 sweet Aug 15 00:59:18 bzhou * r10559 optware/trunk/make/mpc.mk - mpc: 0.16 -> 0.17 Aug 15 01:00:27 can anyone read what i am writing? Aug 15 01:00:45 * czarphanguye looks around. did he hear something? nope.. nvm Aug 15 01:00:56 uh Aug 15 01:00:57 ok Aug 15 01:01:01 heh Aug 15 01:01:19 is this not the place to ask questions about coding patches, etc Aug 15 01:01:54 jefe00: yeah, this is the place. if you have questions, fire away Aug 15 01:02:14 bzhou * r10560 optware/trunk/make/mpg123.mk - mpg123: 1.8.1 -> 1.9.0 Aug 15 01:02:20 I am trying to modify the phone radio patch to control roaming instead of the phone radio itself Aug 15 01:02:28 and i am not able to properly get the state of roaming Aug 15 01:02:32 yea jefe00 just ask away :) Aug 15 01:02:47 +getCurrentRoamState: function() { + return this.voiceRoamingModel.currentVoiceRoaming; +}, Aug 15 01:02:58 plusses because im making a patch Aug 15 01:02:58 destinal: i have a good portion of the sirloin specific code building against .31 now Aug 15 01:03:05 idk it the device will work yet Aug 15 01:03:08 gonna test it soon Aug 15 01:03:13 PuffTheMagic: awesome Aug 15 01:04:27 this is probably a waste of time though Aug 15 01:04:35 oh? Aug 15 01:05:04 jefe00: I thought there was already a patch for that kind of thing but I don't know (and I haven't experimented with that piece) Aug 15 01:05:06 question is, since the currentVoiceRoaming method is in /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phoneprefs/app/controllers, and the file im patching is in /usr/lib/luna/system/luna-systemui/app/controllers/, how do i get it to properly refer to the method in the former? Aug 15 01:05:43 I thought I could use this because it refers to the object that is the phone and i thought roaming was a component of that but it does nothing Aug 15 01:07:21 there exists a patch to enable roaming only Aug 15 01:07:30 but i have to go open the phone, go to the menu, preferences, roaming Aug 15 01:07:48 and since I use it a lot because sprint has crappy service at my house and verizon's is strong, i want to be able to make it a lot easier Aug 15 01:08:10 to enable Aug 15 01:08:30 and a few others in the precentral forum have expressed they would have use for this too so im trying to undertake Aug 15 01:08:38 destinal: there is too much to do to port to .31 Aug 15 01:08:49 esp since i know jack shit about the omap Aug 15 01:08:53 nor do i want to fuck up the pre Aug 15 01:09:06 i can always backport shit to .24 though Aug 15 01:09:13 maybe even rebase .24 to .27 Aug 15 01:09:48 PuffTheMagic: yeah,either could work. I'm ok with using a somewhat older version for nowas long as I can modify it Aug 15 01:09:57 s/now/now / Aug 15 01:09:58 destinal meant: PuffTheMagic: yeah,either could work. I'm ok with using a somewhat older version for now as long as I can modify it Aug 15 01:11:19 have you seen the drivers for USB OTG for the chipset on this thing? I heard they're in the mainline but I haven't checked it out yet Aug 15 01:12:06 jefe00: wish I could help, I don't know enough mojo / javascript and the layout of the pieces you're looking at Aug 15 01:13:42 i appreciate it Aug 15 01:25:08 has there been an app with an effective on screen keyboard? Aug 15 01:32:15 ooh new terminal Aug 15 01:32:31 uh still borked Aug 15 01:32:53 on start login is half off screen Aug 15 01:33:28 Robi_: reboot after install, should be fine after Aug 15 01:34:00 screw that Aug 15 01:34:40 i'll restart luna Aug 15 01:35:40 Could someone help me with a source patch? Aug 15 01:35:56 Im trying to apply the patch for the QuickEvent application for the Universal Search Aug 15 01:36:07 ok, now it logs in as root by default Aug 15 01:37:01 ok just locked up Aug 15 01:37:18 went to prefs, then back gesture, and went all black Aug 15 01:38:09 robi_, nod, 0.1.7 is the broke Aug 15 01:38:19 I've also tried manually rolling back to 0.1.6 and it hates me now ;( Aug 15 01:38:29 how Aug 15 01:38:58 man luna locks hard Aug 15 01:39:05 fails to accept any commands Aug 15 01:41:35 i can uninstall it fine Aug 15 01:42:50 perhaps the termplugin is fubar too Aug 15 01:46:27 where's 0.1.6 Aug 15 01:46:55 back Aug 15 01:48:51 wb Aug 15 01:53:30 is there a changeCase function? Aug 15 01:57:40 ok got 0.1.6 installed again Aug 15 01:58:28 .toLowerCase()? Aug 15 02:01:21 cool, I've got a script going which reverse-installs ipkg's (that is makes .ipk's from stuff previously installed) Aug 15 02:02:28 now to see if they'll install on ubuntu :P Aug 15 02:02:49 Anyone help me with a patch? Aug 15 02:03:38 PinkFloyd: best to just describe / ask Aug 15 02:03:59 luna crashed, after restart, both installed again Aug 15 02:04:01 Im trying to apply the QuickEvent Universal Search patch and have no idea what to do Aug 15 02:04:19 PinkFloyd: did you try the wiki instructions on installing patches? Aug 15 02:04:31 quilt? Aug 15 02:05:11 sonuva Aug 15 02:05:24 PinkFloyd: I thought there were some easier ones Aug 15 02:05:50 I dont even like applying kernel patches to my server, I dont want to screw up my Pre Aug 15 02:06:00 Ive got the diff file Aug 15 02:06:08 how does one use ipkg to install a local file instead of one from the repo Aug 15 02:06:18 well quilt gives you an easy way to back out Aug 15 02:06:22 so maybe quilt is best Aug 15 02:06:55 did you try those steps? Aug 15 02:08:17 Nah not yet Aug 15 02:08:20 I dont have access to my Pre Aug 15 02:08:29 No wifi at work Aug 15 02:09:37 ipkg -o /var install ./org.webosinternals.terminal_0.1.6_all.ipk still downloads Aug 15 02:09:51 Robi_: yeah all the old ones are still there Aug 15 02:11:07 gotta get 0.1.7 removed from the repo Aug 15 02:13:50 can I pick out a certain div from an innnerHTML object? Aug 15 02:14:08 or is that just a string Aug 15 02:27:05 egaudet: what are you wanting to do? Aug 15 02:27:22 consider the innerhtml of "body" Aug 15 02:27:35 obvisoously you can get the inneryhtml of any object inside body. Aug 15 02:27:38 but not in one call Aug 15 02:27:43 you would need to parse the ID. Aug 15 02:28:01 but the innter html as it is haneded to you is jst a string. Aug 15 02:28:26 BUT note that prototype provides methods for walking the child tree, and getting the contents of any children of any element in the dom. Aug 15 02:30:02 ok so i do something like this.controller.get('divid') and i get this HTMLDivElement Aug 15 02:30:33 now I want to go inside and get a span element with a name but no id Aug 15 02:31:44 I know i am probably annoying, but I am one step away from getting this roam switch to work, and there is only one question Aug 15 02:32:54 if I want to refer to the PreflistAssistant var from /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phoneprefs/app/controllers/preflist-assistant.js in /usr/lib/luna/system/luna-systemui/app/controllers/bar-assistant.js, how would i go about it? Aug 15 02:34:09 this is the only thing keeping me from finishing this. Aug 15 02:38:59 =( Aug 15 02:41:58 nobody eh. Aug 15 02:42:10 * jefe00 pulls his hair out lol Aug 15 02:44:09 good q Aug 15 02:46:09 it may be too late everyone is asleep lol **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Aug 15 02:59:59 2009