**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 17 02:59:56 2009
Aug 17 03:02:12 <theplaz> tried changing password in novaterm but still not working
Aug 17 03:02:28 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: looks good
Aug 17 03:02:54 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: so, I guess what was happening was that the revealBottom() was causing it to redraw, but only if you had scrolled it some
Aug 17 03:06:07 <theplaz> anyone have any idea why the password is not woking/ how to change it?  standard linux passwd? or something special for optware?
Aug 17 03:08:18 <Zuchmir2> i'm not sure, as the activate() was not yet called
Aug 17 03:08:44 <Zuchmir2> it could be once it was scrolled, it has to re-orient itself before activating ????
Aug 17 03:10:42 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: hmm... don't know
Aug 17 03:13:00 <rwhitby> Decimation: you can add a file to /var/etc/ipkg/precentral.conf to get another feed
Aug 17 03:13:20 <rwhitby> src/gz precentral http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/precentral
Aug 17 03:13:34 <rwhitby> put that line in /var/etc/ipkg/precentral.conf and preware will use it
Aug 17 03:13:56 <rwhitby> put
Aug 17 03:13:57 <rwhitby> src/gz pimpmypre http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/pimpmypre
Aug 17 03:14:06 <rwhitby> in /var/etc/ipkg/pimpmypre.conf
Aug 17 03:14:50 <rwhitby> Decimation: then you will have the largest number of known applications available to you of any Pre installer app in the universe.
Aug 17 03:15:59 <Decimation> added em both :)
Aug 17 03:16:20 <Decimation> rwhitby: so i assume this will be possible via the app in the future?
Aug 17 03:16:36 <rwhitby> Decimation: it will be part of the installation
Aug 17 03:16:53 <Decimation> yeah, but will custom repo's be allowed?
Aug 17 03:17:11 <Decimation> or are you going to keep it limited so all apps are checked and approved?
Aug 17 03:18:01 <Decimation> rwhitby: sorry for so many questions, just super-curious :P
Aug 17 03:20:32 <rwhitby> Decimation: custom repos are in the plans, but will need a secure informed user consent way of installing them
Aug 17 03:20:58 <rwhitby> (other wise a rogue webos app can install a rogue feed and use it to install a rogue service to get access to linux root)
Aug 17 03:21:51 <Decimation> rwhitby: yeah, i understand the security problem there, and would actually recommend only allowing approved repo's, and have them added through a repo category installation system...
Aug 17 03:22:12 <rwhitby> yep, that's basically the plan.
Aug 17 03:22:33 <rwhitby> anyone can, of course, go in via linux and add whatever custom repos they want, but those people know what they are doing.
Aug 17 03:22:47 * rwhitby bbl
Aug 17 03:23:51 <Decimation> rwhitby: well as i've said before, can't wait... tomorrow i'll be on working on some mods so ill be looking for some input :)
Aug 17 03:23:52 <Decimation> cya
Aug 17 03:31:02 <theplaz> so ssh just uses linux account passwords, right?  and those can be changed with passwd, right?
Aug 17 03:32:11 <theplaz> finally got it; no clude what I did wrong (hit forhead)
Aug 17 04:01:17 <egaudet> http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/3707/browser20091608235911.png
Aug 17 04:02:00 <AnOutsider> sexay
Aug 17 04:02:02 <AnOutsider> kinda
Aug 17 04:02:03 <AnOutsider> lol
Aug 17 04:04:10 <Decimation> egaudet: the shift key l,ooks weird, so does the space...
Aug 17 04:04:44 <Decimation> they all look.. different, idk, and the QW, AS, and Z are higher up than all in rest in each of their rows
Aug 17 04:05:50 <egaudet> yea I know, it's due to the image being stretched
Aug 17 04:05:57 <psykoz> looks nice
Aug 17 04:06:07 <bpadalino> why use images over text again ?
Aug 17 04:06:12 <psykoz> is there a way to make the keyboard pop up on the bottom of the screen (just curious) ?
Aug 17 04:06:28 <egaudet> bpadalino, to make it look good
Aug 17 04:06:39 <bpadalino> text can't look good ?
Aug 17 04:07:06 <psykoz> I like the images not because of making it look good but it helps reinforce the symbols you'll get if you use sym or orange
Aug 17 04:07:08 <AnOutsider> I think the text of the current cirtual keyboards looks better than that image IMO
Aug 17 04:07:10 <psykoz> rather than just swapping the text
Aug 17 04:07:26 <AnOutsider> virtual*
Aug 17 04:07:47 <egaudet> hmmm
Aug 17 04:07:51 <psykoz> egaudet, it looks nice, my only thing is using hte keyboard near the top of the screen makes clicking things I want to click always be behind it ;(
Aug 17 04:08:26 <egaudet> psykoz, I can't really assume what apps will put clickable objects where
Aug 17 04:08:58 <egaudet> Also the keyboard only can be used when textfields are highlighted, indicating you would like to enter text
Aug 17 04:09:29 <psykoz> egaudet, nod, but most on screen keyboards usually just take up bottom of the screen real estate by default, I think users then tend to position things accordingly (sorta weird trying to position things towards the bottom of the screen)
Aug 17 04:10:36 <egaudet> I will look into changing the position logic into bottom-default, but adjust for lower text boxes like messaging app
Aug 17 04:10:42 <bpadalino> i like the idea of having the symbols on the keys to help with the context switch ... but i think having the different values in the button but mostly transparent until that mode is entered would be better on the eyes - something like when i push the orange button, i am switching contexts, and the normal letters go transparent, and the oranged values are more opaque
Aug 17 04:11:14 <psykoz> egaudet, it's not a terrible thing to focus on, I'd rather you have the sexy images out first ;)
Aug 17 04:11:43 <bpadalino> how difficult would it be to make the whole div have a vertical position handle that the user could slide ?
Aug 17 04:11:45 <psykoz> and I didn't think about text messaging being on the bottom so that excludes my logic / rational in this case
Aug 17 04:12:14 <egaudet> bpadalino, there is a scroller already in there
Aug 17 04:12:35 <bpadalino> scroller versus vertical position seems different - one is for absolute screen position, right ?
Aug 17 04:12:49 <bpadalino> the other is scrolling content within the box ?
Aug 17 04:12:51 <egaudet> it only scrolls vertically
Aug 17 04:12:59 <egaudet> within the box
Aug 17 04:13:21 <bpadalino> right - that's scrolling .. but vertical position would be a draggable element to position the keyboard where you want
Aug 17 04:13:36 <egaudet> ahhh oh yes, that's a damn good idea
Aug 17 04:14:32 <psykoz> yeah I like that idea too
Aug 17 04:14:35 <psykoz> ;)
Aug 17 04:15:13 <egaudet> Definitely in the to-do list now
Aug 17 04:15:26 <bpadalino> neat
Aug 17 04:15:28 <max_> egaudet: is haptic feedback in your to-do list?
Aug 17 04:15:46 <egaudet> max_, yes
Aug 17 04:16:09 <max_> great
Aug 17 04:17:39 <psykoz> egaudet, will you also send me $1m usd?
Aug 17 04:17:47 <psykoz> I'd like that to be #1 on your todo list
Aug 17 04:18:27 <oil> dont be pushy
Aug 17 04:18:29 <oil> it could be #2
Aug 17 04:18:50 <egaudet> haha
Aug 17 04:19:06 * psykoz whimpers ;(
Aug 17 04:26:38 <Decimation> bpadalino: scrollable box, that genius :) great idea.
Aug 17 04:27:02 <Decimation> egaudet: the keyboards looking great so far, take your time on improvements :)
Aug 17 04:27:11 <Decimation> oil: preware is looking sosososososo sexy, amazing work.
Aug 17 04:27:15 <egaudet> http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/2327/browser20091708002600.png
Aug 17 04:27:27 <oil> thanks
Aug 17 04:27:49 <Decimation> oil: luna doesn't rescan when you install an app though, just a little fyi :)
Aug 17 04:27:50 <psykoz> sex-say
Aug 17 04:28:00 <Decimation> egaudet: that is MUCH MUCH better, nice work.
Aug 17 04:28:03 <oil> it does
Aug 17 04:28:05 <Decimation> is that released?
Aug 17 04:28:05 <oil> in 0.0.6
Aug 17 04:28:07 <oil> wait
Aug 17 04:28:11 <oil> you have to update the ipkgservice
Aug 17 04:28:24 <Decimation> ahh, that would make sense.
Aug 17 04:28:29 <oil> to 0.0.3
Aug 17 04:28:48 <oil> it cant run it through palms stuff cause its not com.palm.blarg
Aug 17 04:29:13 <Decimation> hmm, says i already have 0.0.3
Aug 17 04:29:22 <Decimation> and i also have 0.0.6 for preware
Aug 17 04:29:22 <oil> huh
Aug 17 04:29:27 <oil> it should work then
Aug 17 04:29:33 <egaudet> not released yet
Aug 17 04:29:39 <oil> maybe 0.0.3 was updated
Aug 17 04:29:59 <oil> ask PuffTheMagic
Aug 17 04:30:16 <PuffTheMagic> ask me what?
Aug 17 04:30:36 <Decimation> oil: no, it definitely doesn't show up on my launcher when i install the simplyflipflops apps
Aug 17 04:30:39 <Decimation> app*
Aug 17 04:30:48 <Decimation> but when i run the luna rescan via terminal
Aug 17 04:30:49 <Decimation> it does.
Aug 17 04:30:52 <oil> 0.0.3 the released version doesnt have the rescan
Aug 17 04:31:00 <oil> but that special 0.0.3 does
Aug 17 04:31:12 <Decimation> well how do i get this special 0.0.3? :)
Aug 17 04:31:55 <oil> he had me wget it to a folder
Aug 17 04:32:32 <Decimation> PuffTheMagic did?
Aug 17 04:32:37 <dss539> Sorry if this the wrong place to ask, but is there an equivalent to /etc/ppp/ip-up.d that is triggered when eth0 acquires an IP? [please direct me to the correct place if this is inappropriate to ask here]
Aug 17 04:32:46 <Zuchmir2> destinal: ping
Aug 17 04:33:11 <oil> cd /usr/lib/luna/java/
Aug 17 04:33:14 <oil> rm org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.jar
Aug 17 04:33:17 <oil> wget http://preware.zen-sources.org/files/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.jar
Aug 17 04:33:32 <oil> you may need to reboot afterwords (i dont remember if i did or not)
Aug 17 04:35:04 <oil> then it will rescan
Aug 17 04:35:10 <oil> but it still doesnt do postinstall or preremove
Aug 17 04:35:16 <Decimation> okay, thanks.
Aug 17 04:35:19 * oil keeps asking, and nobody answers
Aug 17 04:36:51 <Decimation> rebooting
Aug 17 04:37:16 <Decimation> woot, windows 7 rtm, 10 minutes till the downloads complete :)
Aug 17 04:37:49 <oil> i would isntall 7
Aug 17 04:37:54 <oil> but one of my video cards isnt supported
Aug 17 04:38:03 <Decimation> :O
Aug 17 04:38:07 <Decimation> what card do you have?
Aug 17 04:38:09 <oil> and i dont think i can go back to 2 monitors after using 3 for soo long
Aug 17 04:38:45 <Decimation> oil: what card would that be, it should support everything!
Aug 17 04:38:51 <oil> 2 cards
Aug 17 04:38:58 <oil> uh
Aug 17 04:39:32 <oil> Geforce fx 5200 pci
Aug 17 04:40:03 <Shawn_Packer> Can someone help me with removing/deleting the patches I have uploaded.  I want to start completely over.
Aug 17 04:40:12 <oil> webosdoctor
Aug 17 04:40:13 <oil> ?
Aug 17 04:40:24 <Shawn_Packer> Well, without doing that.
Aug 17 04:40:37 * oil has no clue
Aug 17 04:40:48 <Shawn_Packer> That erases absolutely everything and I have to re-dl all apps
Aug 17 04:41:05 <Eduel80> Shawn_Packer: but isnt that what you are wanting to do?
Aug 17 04:41:12 <Decimation> you said you wanted to start totally over..
Aug 17 04:41:25 * Eduel80 nods
Aug 17 04:41:43 <Shawn_Packer> yes and no.  I want to start with the patches, I have a feeling that I cannot get a patch to load because I mucked up something in there, everything else runs fine
Aug 17 04:41:53 <Decimation> oil: ipkgservice still doesn't start by itself?
Aug 17 04:42:05 * oil has nothing to do with that
Aug 17 04:42:09 <oil> no it doesnt
Aug 17 04:42:35 <Decimation> oil: rescan worked fine, thanks for the updated ipkgservice link :)
Aug 17 04:42:47 <oil> it works pretty good, too
Aug 17 04:43:28 <Decimation> oil: yes it does.. i saw in an earlier version you didnt have the app updates section greyed.. i didnt really test it out so i dont know if it was EVER working but when can we expect app updates to be included?
Aug 17 04:44:25 <oil> it works
Aug 17 04:44:35 <oil> it is only black and does anything if you have something to update
Aug 17 04:44:39 <oil> http://i31.tinypic.com/vo8xlx.png
Aug 17 04:44:59 <Decimation> ahh, beautiful.
Aug 17 04:45:19 <Decimation> i was wondering because i coulda swore it wasn't blacked at one point
Aug 17 04:45:29 <Decimation> so i guess this means i can delete preupdater off my phone
Aug 17 04:46:25 <oil> preupdater?
Aug 17 04:46:46 <Decimation> its an app checks for updates on all your apps
Aug 17 04:46:49 <oil> ah
Aug 17 04:47:02 <Decimation> i guess it compares versions via the feeds at precentral, preware, and pimpmypre
Aug 17 04:47:11 <Decimation> but now preware does that for me :)
Aug 17 04:47:15 <oil> yeah
Aug 17 04:47:19 <oil> well
Aug 17 04:47:23 <oil> really its ipkg that does that
Aug 17 04:47:41 <Decimation> yeah, rwhitby was telling me about that
Aug 17 04:48:04 <Decimation> OMG, YOU CANT UPGRADE FROM WINDOWS 7 RC TO WINDOWS 7 RTM
Aug 17 04:48:09 <Decimation> you have to do a clean install.. this is bs.
Aug 17 04:48:37 <oil> you cant upgrade from xp either
Aug 17 04:48:53 <oil> (a big oversight on ms part imop)
Aug 17 04:49:15 <Decimation> but its hilarious
Aug 17 04:49:21 <Decimation> you can upgrade from vista
Aug 17 04:49:33 <Decimation> but they dont let their beta and RC testers do it..
Aug 17 04:50:07 * psykoz shrugs
Aug 17 04:50:16 <Decimation> im gonna make a new partition, install it on that.
Aug 17 04:50:17 <psykoz> why would you want to upgrade from a beta to gold ?
Aug 17 04:50:20 <Decimation> slowly transfer all my stuff
Aug 17 04:51:41 <psykoz> it's a support case too, you just won't have nearly as many support issues if you say "look you're using beta software, start over clean with a fresh RTM install" vs the guy who upgraded from beta, but 2 of his drivers didn't get overwritten properly or some other random crap now emailing MS "I demand u fix this now!"
Aug 17 04:52:06 <oil> i agree that beta/rc should need a clean install to rtm
Aug 17 04:52:17 <oil> but xp should be able to upgrade to 7 rtm
Aug 17 04:52:31 <psykoz> Yeah, Microsoft is shooting themselves in the foot
Aug 17 04:52:45 <psykoz> because windows 7 is supposed to win the hearts of everyone who didn't upgrade to vista
Aug 17 04:52:52 <Decimation> i guess its not that bad, i have a year before the RC expires.. ill just install on a new partition, transfer stuff when i get bored.
Aug 17 04:52:55 <Decimation> slowly make the switch.
Aug 17 04:53:17 <Templarian> Decimation: I'm just sticking with the RC till release, rtm is nice, but to lazy.
Aug 17 04:53:50 <Decimation> Templarian: gonna buy it?
Aug 17 04:55:04 <Templarian> Of course. I'm not going to list off how much I need this for multi-tasking but i'm a bit addicted to how well it handles 20+unique apps on my 2+ year old laptop.
Aug 17 04:55:33 <Decimation> windows 7 is great.
Aug 17 04:55:43 <Decimation> i never had 1 problem with vista.. but i love the UI imporvements.
Aug 17 04:57:52 <FSUphi1490> OK another question.  I get the applying of patches through quilt, I just found the one for character count in messages.  How do I actually apply this one?  I am assuming I have to save the text somewhere in a text file, but then what?
Aug 17 04:57:54 <Templarian> My friend has an HTPC and I really wish I had the money to waste right now and get one also and throw Win7 on it.
Aug 17 04:58:29 <Decimation> i have a amd quad core, nvidia 9800 GTX +, 8 gigs  of ram
Aug 17 04:58:36 <Decimation> 2 tb of HD space
Aug 17 04:58:38 <Decimation> im likin my setup
Aug 17 04:58:59 <Decimation> but i might leave in a second to install windows 7 on the other partition, so yeah..
Aug 17 05:00:13 <AnOutsider> im all late, but windows 7 FTMW
Aug 17 05:01:24 <JackieRipper> FSUphi1490: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches
Aug 17 05:01:59 <FSUphi1490> Yep read that.  I am talking about things that are not already in the directory like this http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_Messaging_Character_Counter
Aug 17 05:02:31 <FSUphi1490> Or for instance the patch to use the universal search to set a quick appointment
Aug 17 05:03:22 <JackieRipper> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_Messaging_Character_Counter#Procedure
Aug 17 05:03:33 <JackieRipper> which part of that isn't clear?
Aug 17 05:04:18 <FSUphi1490> I can apply those patch like the email rotation and the onscreen keyboard.  However, the character count in text messages is not an option to apply in that list of patches.
Aug 17 05:04:58 <FSUphi1490> The person who wrote the instructiosn for the character counter says they have saved the patch file in their home directory.  On the pre? or on their computer?  I am not understanding that part
Aug 17 05:04:59 <JackieRipper> right, but the instructions are on the page
Aug 17 05:05:06 <JackieRipper> on the pre
Aug 17 05:05:34 <JackieRipper> ~/patches/charcounter.patch
Aug 17 05:06:59 <FSUphi1490> So I don't do the following?  cd / sudo patch -p0 --backup-if-mismatch < ~/patches/charcounter.patch  instead I  cd / # It is *very* important to be in the / directory when you run quilt. quilt import /opt/src/modifications/~/patches/charcounter.patch
Aug 17 05:09:30 <epv> patch management seems to have become a big problem
Aug 17 05:13:37 <FSUphi1490> Well, you have a lot of new people doing this stuff.  When I had my winmo phone it was easier to tweak.  I just need to learn more about linux
Aug 17 05:14:00 <Templarian> New update out for the webOS Komodo Add-on. Check out the site for update info. Enjoy, I'm going to sleep now. Gnite.
Aug 17 05:19:47 <JackieRipper> FSUphi1490: for patches in the repo, use quilt.  For patches that aren't, follow the instructions on the individual wiki page.  In the case of the character counter, use patch as the page says
Aug 17 05:21:59 <FSUphi1490> OK, I think I am piecing this together.  To get this to work I have to save the file as charcounter.patch.  Place it on my pre in the home directory, assuming through usb mode. then go back and in cmd run it just as the creator says and the os will pull the patch from the location i place it.  Did I get it correct?  Sorry I am completely new to linux
Aug 17 05:25:21 <JackieRipper> actually, you can place it where ever, and adjust the command you run... for example, if you save in /tmp as charcounter.patch, you would run cd / ; patch -p0 --backup-if-mismatch < /tmp/charcounter.patch
Aug 17 05:25:41 <JackieRipper> the < means read from this file
Aug 17 05:26:07 <JackieRipper> the arrow points to where the data is going
Aug 17 05:26:39 <FSUphi1490> That actually clears everything up
Aug 17 05:27:29 <JackieRipper> cool :)
Aug 17 05:36:49 <Decimation> windows 7 = cool.
Aug 17 05:38:45 <FSUphi1490> Is there anyway to reset the novacom driver without restarting windows.
Aug 17 05:39:22 <Decimation> you mean like.. restart the novacom service? FSUphi1490
Aug 17 05:39:58 <FSUphi1490> yea.  I cannot get back into the phone after doing the set up of quilt and all, my service does this all the time and I end up restarting the computer and then it works
Aug 17 05:40:46 <FSUphi1490> I keep getting unable to find device
Aug 17 05:41:50 <Decimation> go to service.msc
Aug 17 05:41:54 <Decimation> and find palm novacom
Aug 17 05:41:56 <Decimation> and stop it
Aug 17 05:41:58 <Decimation> then start it
Aug 17 05:43:45 <FSUphi1490> i guess I will have to restart i still get the unable to find device message
Aug 17 06:36:52 <Decimation> guys, im bored.. give me something to do with my pre.. lopl
Aug 17 06:39:58 <rwhitby> Decimation: test whether Terminal installs cleanly using WebOS Quick Install, then update the wiki to document that easier installation procedure which does not require Linux access.
Aug 17 06:40:34 <rwhitby> Do the same for Preware, and document the root-not-required instructions for it too.
Aug 17 06:41:35 <Decimation> hmm, okay.
Aug 17 06:41:59 <Decimation> rwhitby: ive completely stopped using file coaster and preload
Aug 17 06:42:09 <Decimation> preware only now :)
Aug 17 06:42:14 <rwhitby> Decimation: yep.
Aug 17 06:42:25 <Decimation> this app elimated preupdater also, i love it :P
Aug 17 06:42:33 <rwhitby> I love it when a plan comes together ;-)
Aug 17 06:43:13 <Decimation> rwhitby: this app is super smooth, i love it :P
Aug 17 06:43:28 <Decimation> the released version of the ipkg service doesnt support rescan though
Aug 17 06:43:35 <Decimation> oil linked me to a version that did
Aug 17 06:44:02 <rwhitby> just the latest in the git repo?  I can push that to the feed.
Aug 17 06:44:23 <oil> idk
Aug 17 06:46:12 <oil> side note: lol @ docs
Aug 17 06:46:13 <oil> "The Filter List (LINK TO FILTERLIST WIDGET) "
Aug 17 06:46:19 <oil> (DOES NOT LINK)
Aug 17 06:46:22 <rwhitby> oil: was that a change to preware after I pushed 0.0.6?
Aug 17 06:46:33 <rwhitby> (the rescan)
Aug 17 06:47:01 <oil> Decimation installed 0.0.6
Aug 17 06:47:04 <oil> and has the rescan
Aug 17 06:47:32 <Decimation> i had 0.0.6
Aug 17 06:47:37 <Decimation> and 0.0.3 of the ipkgservice
Aug 17 06:47:40 <Decimation> and it didnt rescan
Aug 17 06:47:47 <oil> but there is another 0.0.3 WITH rescan
Aug 17 06:47:57 <Decimation> but then oil linked me to another 0.0.3
Aug 17 06:48:03 <Decimation> and i got leet rescan :P
Aug 17 06:48:26 <rwhitby> oil: is the other 0.0.3 with rescan in git?
Aug 17 06:48:59 * rwhitby is confused
Aug 17 06:49:51 <rwhitby> heh - Preware is able to remove itself, and then also remove the service :-)
Aug 17 06:50:14 <rwhitby> of course you have to exit it then, or it hangs :-)
Aug 17 06:50:34 <oil> 0.0.3 ipk of the service that is in the feed
Aug 17 06:50:37 <oil> doesnt have rescan
Aug 17 06:50:44 <oil> http://preware.zen-sources.org/files/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.jar
Aug 17 06:50:44 <oil> does
Aug 17 06:50:56 <oil> puff walked me through a manual install of it
Aug 17 06:52:30 <rwhitby> hmm - so PuffTheMagic has uploaded a jar file which is not built from the code that has been pushed to the git source repo.
Aug 17 06:53:03 <oil> haha
Aug 17 06:55:31 * rwhitby reverse engineers our own open source code to update the git repo and push a 0.0.4 ipkgservice
Aug 17 06:56:45 <rwhitby> oil: so it's a new doRescan  method?
Aug 17 06:56:56 <oil> ipkg needed one
Aug 17 06:56:57 <oil> yea
Aug 17 06:57:13 <oil> cause preware can't call palms without being com.palm.blarg
Aug 17 06:57:29 <rwhitby> I wonder how closely I can match the real source code by using the decompiled class file ...
Aug 17 06:57:38 <oil> haha
Aug 17 06:57:40 <oil> idk
Aug 17 06:58:10 <rwhitby> it'll teach PuffTheMagic for not pushing back to git if I get it slightly wrong ;-)
Aug 17 07:05:07 <Robi_> fix downgrades too :P
Aug 17 07:07:40 <rwhitby> oil: does the current git for preware use rescan?
Aug 17 07:08:03 <rwhitby> I'm pushing 0.0.4 of ipkgservice with rescan support.
Aug 17 07:08:18 <Decimation> rwhitby: the git does, yes
Aug 17 07:08:29 <rwhitby> oil: can that be 0.0.7 then?
Aug 17 07:10:04 <oil> 0.0.6?
Aug 17 07:10:13 <oil> i think the preware in there is ok
Aug 17 07:10:35 <Decimation> the preware in there worked fine for me, but the ipkg service did not.
Aug 17 07:10:53 <rwhitby> oil: I'll do 0.0.7, just in case.
Aug 17 07:10:58 <oil> im sure its fine
Aug 17 07:13:26 <rwhitby> 0.0.7/0.0.4 pushed to feeds.
Aug 17 07:14:38 <Decimation> hah, preware found both updates, an updated flawlessly
Aug 17 07:14:40 <Decimation> i love this app :)
Aug 17 07:15:10 <Decimation> i just hate that i change the names of apps and change their icons
Aug 17 07:15:14 <Decimation> just to make it look nicer
Aug 17 07:15:25 <Decimation> and when i update, it goes back to the original name and icon :(
Aug 17 07:15:56 <oil> i dont think there is any way around that
Aug 17 07:15:57 <oil> haha
Aug 17 07:16:04 <oil> (which is a problem for themers)
Aug 17 07:16:05 <destinal> oil: nice work
Aug 17 07:16:09 <Decimation> oil: i know, lol, i just was saying, i hate it.
Aug 17 07:16:19 <oil> destinal thanks
Aug 17 07:16:33 <destinal> I would play more but I have to get to bed.  it's very cool that the whole preware concept is finally prime time for the gui folks
Aug 17 07:16:37 <rwhitby> destinal: we have a real normal webOS app installer right now.
Aug 17 07:16:49 <rwhitby> tomorrow - postinst.
Aug 17 07:17:11 * rwhitby bbl
Aug 17 08:11:00 <christefano> I'd like my Pre to have an easily addressable hostname on my network. does anyone onkw what's in the optware repository that's similar to Avahi?
Aug 17 08:20:04 <rwhitby> christefano: I'm not sure there is one.
Aug 17 08:20:48 <acydlord_aao> avahi is in there isnt it?
Aug 17 08:21:57 <acydlord_aao> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Avahi
Aug 17 08:23:48 <acydlord_aao> christefano1: did you catch the avahi link i dumped?
Aug 17 08:26:39 <christefano1> sorry, no I didn't. can you give it again, acydlord?
Aug 17 08:27:03 <acydlord_aao> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Avahi
Aug 17 08:28:16 <christefano1> hey, thanks! for some reason I hadn't thought to look in the wiki. I was looking everywhere BUT the wiki
Aug 17 08:28:34 <rwhitby> heh
Aug 17 08:29:15 <rwhitby> I should update the optware avahi package so that none of those manual steps are required
Aug 17 08:29:42 <intro> how's it goin
Aug 17 08:35:07 <acydlord_aao> i take it ipkg -o /var upgrade doesnt properly upgrade terminal?
Aug 17 08:37:19 <rwhitby> acydlord_aao: did you follow the steps on the wiki page?
Aug 17 08:38:02 <acydlord_aao> i did when i installed it origionally
Aug 17 08:38:10 <acydlord_aao> has it been updated since thismorning?
Aug 17 08:39:09 <rwhitby> so you ran the postinst file?
Aug 17 08:39:37 <acydlord_aao> i did when i installed it origionally
Aug 17 08:39:58 <rwhitby> and you did the reboot after upgrading?
Aug 17 08:40:04 <acydlord_aao> yup
Aug 17 08:40:20 <rwhitby> hmm - that should work.
Aug 17 08:40:28 <acydlord_aao> terminal opens, but the text area is blank
Aug 17 08:40:51 <rwhitby> does ipkg -o /var list show org.webosinternals.termplugin ?
Aug 17 08:41:30 <acydlord_aao> just noticed i have a x-webosinternals-termplugin 0.1.6 in there after the org.webosinternals.termplugin 0.1.8
Aug 17 08:42:11 <rwhitby> oh, remove them both and then reinstall 0.1.8 and re-run the postinst
Aug 17 08:42:59 <acydlord_aao> will do
Aug 17 08:47:35 <acydlord_aao> should i reboot before reinstalling?
Aug 17 08:47:49 <rwhitby> can't hurt.
Aug 17 08:54:28 <christefano1> there's something wrong with the Avahi instructions and I don't know what
Aug 17 08:55:10 <christefano1> the S60avahi init.d script is executable but I'm getting some weird errors:
Aug 17 08:55:19 <christefano1>  /opt/etc/init.d/S60avahi: line 1: !/bin/sh: No such file or directory
Aug 17 08:55:19 <christefano1>  /opt/sbin/avahi: No such file or directory
Aug 17 08:56:11 <christefano1> also, I think the "if [ -n "`pidof /opt/sbin/avahi`" ]; then" line should point to /opt/sbin/avahi-daemon but I'm not entirely sure
Aug 17 08:56:43 <acydlord_aao> apparently terminal was working for me. i had to set the forground color to something other than white, and then set it back to white
Aug 17 08:59:39 <acydlord_aao> it should point to /opt/sbin/avahi-daemon
Aug 17 09:01:05 <acydlord_aao> or you can cheat and ln -s it
Aug 17 09:03:18 <rwhitby> christefano1: did you include the # before the ! ?
Aug 17 09:03:47 <christefano1> ah, yes it's missing. I'll update the wiki page
Aug 17 09:05:13 <christefano1> rwhitby: now I get this:
Aug 17 09:05:14 <christefano1> Timeout reached while wating for return value
Aug 17 09:05:14 <christefano1> Could not receive return value from daemon process
Aug 17 09:06:50 <rwhitby> christefano: dunno
Aug 17 09:06:50 <christefano> yup, same here.
Aug 17 09:06:50 <rwhitby> can someone confirm what "uname -m" on the Pre returns?
Aug 17 09:07:13 <christefano> armv71
Aug 17 09:08:26 <rwhitby> 'armv7l'? not 'armv7' ?
Aug 17 09:08:52 <christefano> sorry,   that should have been armv7l
Aug 17 09:09:44 <rwhitby> with an 'l' on the end?
Aug 17 09:09:54 <christefano> yes, with a lowercase L
Aug 17 09:09:59 <rwhitby> for some reason I thought it was just 'armv7'
Aug 17 09:10:00 <oil> lol
Aug 17 09:12:16 <rwhitby> christefano: what's 'uname -a' say?
Aug 17 09:14:29 <christefano> Linux preampd 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 #1 175.1.23 armv7l GNU/Linux
Aug 17 09:15:17 <christefano> brb
Aug 17 09:33:12 <acydlord_aao> i'm off to bed. night all
Aug 17 09:33:23 <oil> later
Aug 17 10:23:14 <enio> hmm
Aug 17 10:23:15 <enio> weird
Aug 17 10:23:58 <enio> i installed terminal app and i get just black no nothing and when i quit it now I cant launch any other app
Aug 17 10:24:02 <enio> lol
Aug 17 11:44:01 <rwhitby> Preware 0.5.0 is in the feeds.
Aug 17 11:45:29 <enio> nice
Aug 17 11:45:39 <enio> but still terminal app 0.1.8 doesnt work for me
Aug 17 11:50:38 <rwhitby> enio: try going into preferences, and changing the foreground colour
Aug 17 11:52:18 <enio> oh it works
Aug 17 11:52:21 <enio> never thought of that
Aug 17 11:52:21 <enio> :S
Aug 17 12:46:38 <czarphanguye> rwhitby: lol, so that's why I had just a black screen.. black font on black background.  ;-)
Aug 17 12:47:49 <czarphanguye> purge it and deleted folders, reinstalled.. and here it was just the color.  /me facepalm
Aug 17 12:51:42 <enio> czarphanguye: i did same thing
Aug 17 12:51:43 <enio> 3 times
Aug 17 12:51:44 <enio> :p
Aug 17 12:52:55 <rwhitby> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware
Aug 17 13:07:56 <bpadalino|work> should the app check to make sure you can't do the same color for fg/bg to alleviate user error - maybe gray out that option?
Aug 17 13:08:47 <rwhitby> bpadalino|work: indeed it should :-)
Aug 17 13:25:00 <czarphanguye> hope everything doesn't start to rely on this quick install thing, I like the terminal. ;-/
Aug 17 13:26:15 <rwhitby> czarphanguye: you can use quick install to install the Terminal now - no root access required.
Aug 17 13:26:42 <rwhitby> czarphanguye: and be assured that anything you do in Preware will also be able to be done on the command line in the Terminal using ipkg commands.
Aug 17 13:26:55 <rwhitby> we've designed it that way specifically.
Aug 17 13:27:08 <rwhitby> (I had to fight PuffTheMagic to make sure that was the case)
Aug 17 13:27:16 <czarphanguye> rwhitby: wonderful.  gui was never my friend ;-)
Aug 17 13:27:53 <rwhitby> Preware is not just an application, it's a whole open homebrew ecosystem.
Aug 17 13:29:16 <czarphanguye> sort of like synaptic to debian?
Aug 17 13:30:06 <czarphanguye> oh, I see it even mentions something about upload ability.  interesting
Aug 17 13:32:44 <czarphanguye> could I update the wiki show how to install using ipkg?  ie, sudo ipkg -o /var install org.webosinternals.ipkgservice, org.webosinternals.preware or would that just confuse people.
Aug 17 13:32:49 <czarphanguye> *to show
Aug 17 13:33:09 <rwhitby> czarphanguye: you have to run the postinst file too
Aug 17 13:34:06 <czarphanguye> org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst?
Aug 17 13:34:24 <rwhitby> yep
Aug 17 13:35:17 <rwhitby> czarphanguye: please put it *right* down the bottom of the page, marked explicitly as an optional installation method for Linux experts only :-)
Aug 17 13:43:53 <Ikyo> Intro: you around?
Aug 17 13:51:28 <czarphanguye> added; http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware#Alternative_Installation_.28ADVANCED.2FCLI_Method.29
Aug 17 13:53:45 <rwhitby> czarphanguye: can you change that?  the preware feed has been renamed to webos-internals
Aug 17 13:55:36 <rwhitby> czarphanguye: http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/ is the correct base URL now for the feed .conf files
Aug 17 13:58:07 <czarphanguye> rwhitby: absolutely, updated.  are you going to keep the syslink so I don't have to update my system w/ the new repo?  ;-)
Aug 17 13:59:30 <czarphanguye> preware is awesome.  didn't realize, 150 apps to install?  O_o
Aug 17 14:07:27 <Ikyo> I believe you made a type in the setting up the repo section.  Shouldn't it be echo not secho?
Aug 17 14:12:07 <czarphanguye> Ikyo: correct, fixed.  thanks for pointing that out
Aug 17 14:14:31 <czarphanguye> Precentral is ok w/ this?  seems like your going to steal some thunder if people don't 'have to' use there site for homebrewed anymore.
Aug 17 14:18:31 <Ikyo> Last night sucked
Aug 17 14:19:47 <Ikyo> As a FYI, if you have an exchange account that requires a PIN be put on the phone....don't plan on removing it until the exchange account is removed.  I ran Webdoctor on a friends phone because we didn't know what caused him not to be able to remove his PIN
Aug 17 14:27:18 <czarphanguye> anyone else notice Newegg's P.M Shell shocker?  http://tinyurl.com/6ncw9eurl1 is going to be 5.99.. wonder if this thing would charge the Pre (@5V)
Aug 17 14:30:22 <Ikyo> the redirector didn't work
Aug 17 14:30:29 <czarphanguye> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875998147
Aug 17 14:30:37 <Ikyo> a friend of mine ended up finding car chargers for the pre at like $7 each
Aug 17 14:31:04 <czarphanguye> this dual usb, at 6 free shipping ;-x
Aug 17 14:31:44 <Ikyo> yeah, someone posted on precentral an option that worked for like $4 for the adapter and cable
Aug 17 14:32:09 <czarphanguye> nice.
Aug 17 14:32:43 <Ikyo> http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-accessories/191220-very-cheap-pre-car-charger-solution.html
Aug 17 14:34:09 <Ikyo> http://forums.precentral.net/marketplace/188460-fs-original-oem-sprint-palm-pre-car-charger-10-a.html
Aug 17 14:34:25 <Ikyo> that is pretty insane....I can't even buy it for $10 and I work for Sprint
Aug 17 14:36:28 <czarphanguye> Ikyo: is it true that sprint employees got a free pre for the long wait?
Aug 17 14:41:31 <mrjcarter> congrats everybody involved in the preware project
Aug 17 14:48:21 <czarphanguye> I imagine x-webosinternals-termplugin 0.1.6 can be safely removed, as org.webosinternals.termplugin 0.1.8 is installed?
Aug 17 15:20:16 <czarphanguye> thanks for the rt mrjcarter
Aug 17 15:20:30 <mrjcarter> no prob
Aug 17 15:44:41 <max_> on the first start up how long should preware take to update?
Aug 17 15:47:50 <mrjcarter> max_, took me a coulple minutes
Aug 17 15:48:06 <mrjcarter> well... maybe about a minute
Aug 17 15:51:50 <max_> mrjcarter: mine does seem to be work... is .5 the right version? I saw something about .7 a little farther up
Aug 17 15:52:21 <mrjcarter> yeah, 0.5.0 is the version I'm running
Aug 17 16:12:33 <Decimation-zzz> rwhitby: my preware isnt updating
Aug 17 16:12:38 <Decimation-zzz> i started the service also..
Aug 17 16:26:11 <czarphanguye> if you folks ( max_ & Decimation-zzz) have root access, you can do `sudo ipkg -o /var update` to force an update.
Aug 17 16:26:58 <Decimation> the new update for preware added a source that i guess doesnt exist yet
Aug 17 16:27:16 <Decimation> i deleted that from the .conf file and now preware updates fine
Aug 17 16:29:01 <Decimation> oil: aww, you took out the back button from the bottom of the screen on each page of preware
Aug 17 16:30:47 <egaudet__> How do you patch in windows?
Aug 17 16:31:25 <Decimation> egaudet_: what do you mean? i use quilt to patch via terminal, although i usually just edit files manually...
Aug 17 16:31:33 <PuffTheMagic> install linux in a virtualbox :D
Aug 17 16:32:38 <egaudet__> PuffTheMagic, what do you reccommend for a small distro, I just want to muck around with emulator stuff while I don't have access to my pre
Aug 17 16:33:35 <czarphanguye> egaudet__: http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/
Aug 17 16:40:12 <egaudet_> Forgot I had put ubuntu on this old PC before :)
Aug 17 17:01:35 <gkatsev> egaudet|Away: seems that whenever i open the messaging app, it comes open with all the text in the onscreen keyboard
Aug 17 17:20:33 <xalbo> So after installing Preware and upgrading the Terminal in the process (via `ipkg -o /var upgrade`), running the terminal seems to just give me an empty black window.
Aug 17 17:21:48 <gkatsev> xalbo: did you restart luna or your pre after the update?
Aug 17 17:23:00 <t3rmin> xalbo: I had to uninstall terminal and the plugin, then reinstall to get it to work
Aug 17 17:23:04 <xalbo> Yes.  I rebooted the entire pre, although I had forgotten to run the postinst for preware first, so after that I forced a rescan on luna
Aug 17 17:23:14 <t3rmin> same symptoms
Aug 17 17:23:20 <xalbo> Ok, I can try that.
Aug 17 17:23:33 <t3rmin> also note the plugin is renamed
Aug 17 17:25:37 <xalbo> Ahh. I had heard that in passing, but hadn't taken it to heart.  Probably I didn't upgrade, but ended up installing the new one over (in addition to?) the old.
Aug 17 17:25:40 <Decimation> egaudet|Away: when are you gonna update the keyboard patch with the pretty images :)
Aug 17 17:26:18 <xalbo> Is there an ipkg command to see which packages I have installed?
Aug 17 17:27:04 <Decimation> xalbo: i know there is
Aug 17 17:27:08 <Decimation> idk it though :/
Aug 17 17:27:15 <czarphanguye> gkatsev:  the new terminal release is for some reason black font on black background.  Just update the colors ;-)
Aug 17 17:27:41 <xalbo> Just trying to make sure I get all versions uninstalled before I attempt again.
Aug 17 17:28:08 <czarphanguye> xalbo: ipkg -o /var list_installed
Aug 17 17:28:13 <gkatsev> czarphanguye: that should be to xalbo. i have yet to update my term past 0.1.5 or whatever was the version
Aug 17 17:28:24 <czarphanguye> ah, my mistake gkatsev
Aug 17 17:28:54 <gkatsev> czarphanguye: no prob
Aug 17 17:29:03 <gkatsev> but good to know for when I do upgrade it,
Aug 17 17:29:20 <xalbo> Thanks!  I did still have the x- version installed.
Aug 17 17:29:27 <gkatsev> though, likely not this week, cuz i have a crack on my pre, so, next week ill get it replaced (need a cell this week)
Aug 17 17:30:09 <czarphanguye> xalbo: ditto.  pretty sure the 0.1.6 x-*plugin can be removed.
Aug 17 17:30:21 <czarphanguye> as the 0.1.8 has a different name
Aug 17 17:31:21 <czarphanguye> xalbo: but that's not 'needed', did you catch the msg above?  it's black font on black bg.
Aug 17 17:31:42 <xalbo> Ahh.  Well that would explain a few things.
Aug 17 17:32:01 <xalbo> In that case, I expect it was working exactly as intended.  "Scary Black Screen" indeed!
Aug 17 17:34:06 <destinal1> xalbo: lol
Aug 17 17:34:31 <destinal1> what, you don't like black on black as a default?
Aug 17 17:35:51 <gkatsev> at least its not neon green on neon red or something
Aug 17 17:36:12 <xalbo> Well, I had been grumbling that the font was small and hard to read.  This certainly makes that less noticeable.
Aug 17 17:37:58 <xalbo> (Not grumbling too hard; any bigger and it doesn't fit enough on the screen.  Really I am absolutely thrilled about the terminal app in general.)
Aug 17 17:38:22 <egaudet_> Decimation, I don't plan on releasing any skin changes until I put in user preference abilities to change the skins on the fly, and clean up the look when the image doesn't exist to display nice text rather than the crappy alt text in a blank image box
Aug 17 17:38:44 <gkatsev> xalbo: just dont rotate the screen to type with the screen in landscape mode. :D
Aug 17 17:38:57 <gkatsev> egaudet_: did you see my message from above?
Aug 17 17:39:20 <czarphanguye> gkatsev: that seems to work now.  at least it let me `df -h` while in landscape
Aug 17 17:40:02 <egaudet_> gkatsev, no?
Aug 17 17:40:58 <gkatsev> egaudet_: well, it was highlighing egaudet|Away. it was how when opening the messaging app, it inserts the text from the onscreen keyboard into it
Aug 17 17:41:40 <egaudet_> I scrolled up but don't have the message in this window
Aug 17 17:41:40 <xalbo> typing in landscape works for me
Aug 17 17:41:50 <egaudet_> Not sure what you mean ?
Aug 17 17:42:37 <gkatsev> egaudet_: when i open a conversation from a notif of a text or something, i get qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm plus some oher stuff in the text area
Aug 17 17:43:43 <egaudet_> wow really?
Aug 17 17:44:02 <egaudet_> it only happens from notification?
Aug 17 17:44:07 <gkatsev> egaudet_: yeah, at first i just thought it was just being weird, but now it consistently happens
Aug 17 17:44:21 <gkatsev> egaudet_: let me trying manually opening the messaging app and a convo
Aug 17 17:47:13 <gkatsev> yeah, seems like its only when opened from notifications
Aug 17 17:49:22 <egaudet_> Alright well that is good to know, I will be sure to check that out when I get home
Aug 17 17:49:43 <Decimation> egaudet_: did you get the scrollable keyboard working so its vertical position can be changed?
Aug 17 17:52:33 <egaudet_> No haven't looked at that yet
Aug 17 18:12:43 <mrjcarter> can somebody post to the wiki a how-to on resole the not updating issue?
Aug 17 18:12:51 <mrjcarter> resolve*, sorry
Aug 17 18:14:15 <max_> mrjcarter: someone said to me earlier:  <czarphanguye> if you folks ( max_ & Decimation-zzz) have root access, you can do `sudo ipkg -o /var update` to force an update.
Aug 17 18:14:52 <max_> however that didn't work for me. so it would be nice if the wiki was updated with a how to resolve the update issue
Aug 17 18:15:30 <gkatsev> mrjcarter: perhaps you aren on an rw fs?
Aug 17 18:15:43 <Ikyo> When mine didn't update right off, I just restarted it and it did then.
Aug 17 18:16:14 <mrjcarter> gkatsev, funny thing is is that I had it working at first, then after uninstalling the onscreen keyboard app, preware stopped updating
Aug 17 18:16:32 <mrjcarter> max_, yeah that didn't seem to work for me either
Aug 17 18:16:48 <gkatsev> hm... weird
Aug 17 18:17:25 <bougyman> where is this on screen keyboard?
Aug 17 18:17:28 <bougyman> i'd like to try it out.
Aug 17 18:17:32 <mrjcarter> anybody know the correct way to uninstall both the service and preware from the terminal?
Aug 17 18:17:49 <mrjcarter> I don't have access to the quick install app
Aug 17 18:18:10 <mrjcarter> bougyman, I meant to say patch, not app, but its located on the wiki
Aug 17 18:18:28 <Ikyo> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware#Removal
Aug 17 18:18:30 <gkatsev> bougyman: git
Aug 17 18:18:52 <gkatsev> bougyman: read the page on installing patches on the wiki
Aug 17 18:18:54 <bougyman> oh, it's a quilt thing?
Aug 17 18:18:59 <gkatsev> bougyman: yep
Aug 17 18:19:08 <gkatsev> add-onscreen-keyboard.patch
Aug 17 18:19:09 <bougyman> i installed that but never got down to getting any patches.
Aug 17 18:19:10 <mrjcarter> Ikyo, thanks, but I don't have access to the quick installer
Aug 17 18:19:16 <bougyman> gkatsev: is it stable?
Aug 17 18:20:03 <gkatsev> bougyman: stable enough, it wont crap your system out but if you open the messaging app via a notif it inserts qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm into the textbox, lol
Aug 17 18:20:18 <bougyman> heh
Aug 17 18:20:31 <bougyman> i can live with that.
Aug 17 18:25:27 <mrjcarter> anybody know how to create the { } symbols in the terminal (on pre)?
Aug 17 18:26:07 <gkatsev> mrjcarter: i dont think you can yet
Aug 17 18:26:51 <mrjcarter> so instead of running this command: luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {}
Aug 17 18:26:56 <mrjcarter> will just a reset do?
Aug 17 18:28:48 <gkatsev> mrjcarter: for?
Aug 17 18:29:11 <mrjcarter> I'm installing the ipkg service and preware
Aug 17 18:29:55 <gkatsev> mrjcarter: yeah, you could just restart the device
Aug 17 18:30:11 <mrjcarter> thanks
Aug 17 18:32:08 <Decimation> hmm, it says alpha 0.5.0 is the first public release
Aug 17 18:32:16 <Decimation> but ive been using it since 0.0.1 :P
Aug 17 18:32:45 <epyon22> i tried to update my terminal but it broke it
Aug 17 18:32:52 <epyon22> the screen is blank now
Aug 17 18:33:19 <gkatsev> epyon22: default color is black on black, apparently
Aug 17 18:33:31 <epyon22> haha are you serious
Aug 17 18:34:02 <gkatsev> epyon22: apparently
Aug 17 18:34:05 <Decimation> as soon as categories for apps are pushed to the feed
Aug 17 18:34:11 <Decimation> preware is good for me :)
Aug 17 18:34:12 <FreeTim3> You can change color in terminal - export PS1='\[\033]0;\u@\h:\w\007\]\[\033[1;32m\]$LDAP\[\033[1;35m\]@\[\033[1;36m\]\h\[\033[1;35m\]:\[\033[1;33m\]\w\[\033[1;35m\]$\[\033[0m\] '
Aug 17 18:34:41 <FreeTim3> well there is probably a simpler one, but that's from my profile - results in light grey on black
Aug 17 18:35:32 <epyon22> woah now it logs right into root
Aug 17 18:35:35 <epyon22> idk if i like that
Aug 17 18:36:04 <gkatsev> epyon22: you better like it, or else... :D
Aug 17 18:36:21 <epyon22> lol or else what gkatsev
Aug 17 18:36:36 <gkatsev> epyon22: or else you wont like it.
Aug 17 18:36:40 <epyon22> haha
Aug 17 18:37:07 <egaudet_> everything runs as root anyway
Aug 17 18:37:24 <epyon22> yeah but it doesnt ask for a pw
Aug 17 18:37:39 <gkatsev> i dont have a pw on root
Aug 17 18:37:52 <egaudet_> well unless you give your phone to someone who wants to damage it...?
Aug 17 18:38:02 <epyon22> yeah thats what im thinking
Aug 17 18:38:12 <epyon22> idk im just a security freak
Aug 17 18:38:21 <PuffTheMagic> then dont install terminal
Aug 17 18:38:40 <epyon22> i run bios pw's on all my comps so ppl dont mess with them
Aug 17 18:38:51 <gkatsev> give your phone for someone else to use? what do you mean?
Aug 17 18:39:09 <gkatsev> s/for/to/
Aug 17 18:39:11 <infobot> gkatsev meant: give your phone to someone else to use? what do you mean?
Aug 17 18:39:56 <epyon22> is there any big mobile browser companies working on a new browser for the pre?
Aug 17 18:40:07 <mrjcarter> microsoft
Aug 17 18:40:10 <enio> what for?
Aug 17 18:40:17 <gkatsev> mrjcarter: they are?
Aug 17 18:40:17 <enio> pre's browser is good enough
Aug 17 18:40:18 <PuffTheMagic> why would u want something else
Aug 17 18:40:22 <PuffTheMagic> it runs webit and v8
Aug 17 18:40:23 <mrjcarter> im kiding
Aug 17 18:40:26 <PuffTheMagic> you cant get better than that
Aug 17 18:40:27 <gkatsev> ah, lol
Aug 17 18:40:27 <enio> webkit ftw!
Aug 17 18:40:36 <gkatsev> yeah, the built in one is nice
Aug 17 18:40:47 <PuffTheMagic> i uses Chrome's v8 js engine
Aug 17 18:40:47 <epyon22> just more features source viewing
Aug 17 18:40:56 <epyon22> download manager
Aug 17 18:40:58 <gkatsev> though, would like to try fennec
Aug 17 18:41:10 <enio> ti think fennec will be crap
Aug 17 18:41:20 <gkatsev> epyon22: add it as plugins to current browser?
Aug 17 18:41:21 <enio> opera mini
Aug 17 18:41:33 <epyon22> opera mini is pretty nice
Aug 17 18:41:36 <gkatsev> enio: i used opera mini on my old phone, was nice
Aug 17 18:41:56 <PuffTheMagic> pres browser >> opera mini
Aug 17 18:42:06 <epyon22> yeah are there complete plugins yet? gkatsev
Aug 17 18:42:15 <gkatsev> i like that it loads the website on their server then send you the loaded content, makes browsing easier, but it gives you no privacy or security
Aug 17 18:42:27 <epyon22> yeah deff but mini was great on my moto q
Aug 17 18:42:36 <gkatsev> epyon22: i dont think so, there is the download patch righ now
Aug 17 18:42:47 <epyon22> way way beter than the ie on wm5
Aug 17 18:43:15 <gkatsev> way better then the built in WEP browser on my old sanyo scp-7050
Aug 17 18:43:34 <gkatsev> wm5 is crap
Aug 17 18:43:54 <epyon22> yep i lived with it for 2 years
Aug 17 18:44:20 <epyon22> tweaked the hell out of it though i had copy and paste task manager
Aug 17 18:44:46 <epyon22> a like alpha version of hamachi that you cant get any more
Aug 17 18:45:08 <gkatsev> didnt they get hamachi working on the pre?
Aug 17 18:45:19 <epyon22> yeah i have it on mine
Aug 17 18:45:30 <epyon22> works great just needs a mojo front end now
Aug 17 18:45:42 <gkatsev> yep
Aug 17 18:45:54 <epyon22> kills the battery lol
Aug 17 18:46:02 <epyon22> dont leave it running
Aug 17 18:46:32 <gkatsev> heh
Aug 17 18:48:41 <epyon22> i cant wait for flash for the pre :-) flash games here i come
Aug 17 18:49:00 <gkatsev> epyon22: no battery life what-so-ever, here epyon22 comes
Aug 17 18:49:40 <epyon22> haha well the 2600 mah battery will help
Aug 17 18:49:55 <gkatsev> epyon22: what about the 3800 mAh one?
Aug 17 18:49:59 <epyon22> though i do get alot of "man ur phone is thick" comments from ppl
Aug 17 18:50:10 <epyon22> thers a 3800?
Aug 17 18:50:12 <epyon22> dang
Aug 17 18:50:18 <gkatsev> epyon22: yeah, lol
Aug 17 18:50:27 <epyon22> who makes that?
Aug 17 18:50:36 <gkatsev> it like triples or quadruples the width of it
Aug 17 18:50:42 <gkatsev> something that starts with an A
Aug 17 18:50:49 <epyon22> i get 3 4 days out of the seidio one
Aug 17 18:51:08 <gkatsev> http://www.prethinkingstore.com/Amzer-SmartCell-3800-mAh-Lithium-Ion-Extended-Battery-with-Black-Battery-Door-P84080.htm
Aug 17 18:51:11 <gkatsev> amzer
Aug 17 18:51:36 <gkatsev> i got the 1350 one from seidio, will be good enough for me, plus, now i have two batteries
Aug 17 18:52:14 <epyon22> yeah i ordered a charger too which is nice i just switch off betwen the extended and the regular
Aug 17 18:52:44 <epyon22> damn that 3800 turns the phone almost into a brick
Aug 17 18:52:55 <epyon22> like a brick shape
Aug 17 18:53:33 <gkatsev> haha, Wolfenstein Pre-D
Aug 17 18:53:39 <epyon22> haha
Aug 17 18:53:55 <gkatsev> epyon22: precentral compares it to a mouse (a computer mouse)
Aug 17 18:54:01 <gkatsev> cuz it definitely looks like one
Aug 17 18:54:16 <epyon22> haha well that wouldnt be the first phone that looked like one
Aug 17 18:54:30 <gkatsev> well, with the 3800 mAh batter and back cover
Aug 17 18:54:43 <gkatsev> wouldve been cool if their backcover was touchstone compatible
Aug 17 18:54:44 <epyon22> i used to have a sanyo somthing b4 my q and i used to confuse it with a mouse all the time we it was next to my mouse pad
Aug 17 18:54:53 <gkatsev> haha
Aug 17 18:55:29 <epyon22> http://www.mobilemag.com/2009/08/07/palm-pre-extended-battery-far-from-ideal-solution/
Aug 17 18:55:35 <bpadalino|work> if wolfenstein runs at 30fps on the emulator, i wonder how slow it would be on the phone itself
Aug 17 18:55:55 <gkatsev> bpadalino|work: like 2
Aug 17 18:56:14 <bpadalino|work> i was going to give it the benefit of the doubt and say 5 to 8
Aug 17 18:56:21 <gkatsev> lol
Aug 17 18:56:29 <epyon22> is that the same as the doom engine?
Aug 17 18:56:41 <gkatsev> epyon22: vice versa
Aug 17 18:56:52 <epyon22> didnt seem to run too bad when i played it on mine
Aug 17 18:56:53 <gkatsev> doom engine was built on top of the wolfenstein 3D engine
Aug 17 18:57:03 <gkatsev> oh, doom on the pre, lol
Aug 17 18:57:42 <epyon22> yeah i go it running havent played it much though cause ive got to dig up the old doom 1 and 2 wads
Aug 17 18:58:34 <gkatsev> epyon22: there are opensource doom wads that are a bit by bit recreation of the proprietery wads that are compatible with the doom wads
Aug 17 18:58:50 <egaudet_> The emulator doesn't have a cd command?
Aug 17 18:58:55 <epyon22> i have the originals on my desktop somwhere
Aug 17 18:59:15 <destinal1> gkatsev: uh, a bit by bit recreation would still be copyright infringement
Aug 17 18:59:40 <destinal1> may as well just copy the whole original game wads at that point
Aug 17 18:59:52 <epyon22> egaudet_: what emulator?
Aug 17 19:00:08 <epyon22> lol if your that afraid of piracy then somthings wrong
Aug 17 19:00:14 <destinal1> egaudet_: cd is built into your shell
Aug 17 19:00:16 <gkatsev> destinal1: idk, id3 is fine with it
Aug 17 19:00:26 <epyon22> escpacially doom you could get alot of the game as shareware any ways
Aug 17 19:00:39 <egaudet_> the pre, the first time I typed cd /tmp it said it couldn't find cd
Aug 17 19:00:49 <egaudet_> weird
Aug 17 19:00:58 <epyon22> works now?
Aug 17 19:01:02 <destinal1> egaudet_: you probably had an invalid char before the cd
Aug 17 19:01:04 <egaudet_> yea
Aug 17 19:01:06 <destinal1> I've had that happen before
Aug 17 19:01:26 <egaudet_> one of those hidden chars
Aug 17 19:01:27 <gkatsev> it might have been capitalizing the c
Aug 17 19:01:54 <destinal1> yeah Cd will give command not found
Aug 17 19:02:24 <gkatsev> cuz for the old ajaxPHPterm back before terminal was created, it was capitalizing the c
Aug 17 19:02:36 <egaudet_> it must have been a hidden character from trying to paste into novaterm
Aug 17 19:03:32 <epyon22> oh yeah novaterm is picky about key presses too sometimes they arent mapped right
Aug 17 19:03:45 <epyon22> so probally invisble chars somwhere
Aug 17 19:08:25 <Decimation> has anyone in here looked into adding an icon to the quicklaunch dock?
Aug 17 19:08:48 <livewire1337> yea
Aug 17 19:09:07 <livewire1337> some people have even started working on adding more icons per row on the launcher
Aug 17 19:09:51 <gkatsev> yep, you can now get 20
Aug 17 19:10:13 <gkatsev> though, once they remove some of the vertical spacing, you could even get 25
Aug 17 19:10:15 <epyon22> is that on the wiki?
Aug 17 19:10:32 <gkatsev> epyon22: should be
Aug 17 19:11:08 <egaudet_> wow ubuntu is taking forever to install in virtualbox on this stupid old pc
Aug 17 19:11:32 <epyon22> virtualbox is a pretty big one
Aug 17 19:11:43 <epyon22> like 170 mbs or somthing
Aug 17 19:12:19 <egaudet_> virtualbox wasn't bad, it's installing ubuntu with it that is taking forever, should have chosen a smaller virtual drive than the default 8gb :(
Aug 17 19:12:50 <epyon22> haha
Aug 17 19:13:03 <epyon22> doing all the ext3/4 formatting
Aug 17 19:13:22 <egaudet_> maybe it will be done by tomorrow
Aug 17 19:13:23 <livewire1337> vmware is aweseom
Aug 17 19:13:34 <livewire1337> you can get it at isohunt.com
Aug 17 19:13:50 <enio> stop pirating
Aug 17 19:13:51 <enio> :p
Aug 17 19:13:57 <livewire1337> XD
Aug 17 19:14:11 <gkatsev> you can now get the pirate bay as 21 gig torrent, lol
Aug 17 19:14:27 <livewire1337> lol
Aug 17 19:16:33 <epyon22> are the event reminders under the run like its an alarm under the clock app?
Aug 17 19:40:29 <PuffTheMagic> Zuchmir2: ping!
Aug 17 19:43:41 <Zuchmir2> detinal: ping
Aug 17 19:43:44 <destinal1> virtualbox is already needed for the sdk and isn't that slow actually
Aug 17 19:44:02 <destinal1> Zuchmir2: pong pong pong (3x amplification) :)
Aug 17 19:44:28 <Zuchmir2> we need need to make a release
Aug 17 19:44:49 <Zuchmir2> as the black on black is a major issue, and it was resolved
Aug 17 19:46:06 <Zuchmir2> for got the instructions, that's why i didn't do it yesterday
Aug 17 19:46:26 <Zuchmir2> forgot
Aug 17 19:47:06 <epyon22> is the fix on the ipkg?
Aug 17 19:47:21 <Zuchmir2> don't think so
Aug 17 19:48:21 <PuffTheMagic> Zuchmir2: i pinged not destinal1
Aug 17 19:48:26 <PuffTheMagic> well maybe he pinged too
Aug 17 19:48:48 <PuffTheMagic> Zuchmir2: whats going on with the preferences thing, why do we need to open/close prefs before i can see the prompt?
Aug 17 19:49:27 <destinal1> Zuchmir2: ah, ok I can do a release if you're happy with the way HEAD is right now
Aug 17 19:49:33 <Zuchmir2> PuffTheMagic: that was fixed yesterday, and that's what i wrote above
Aug 17 19:49:39 <destinal1> You don't like black on black?
Aug 17 19:49:42 <destinal1> :P
Aug 17 19:49:50 <destinal1> I think it'll be all the rage in no time
Aug 17 19:50:00 <Zuchmir2> on my screen it's fine:-)
Aug 17 19:50:07 <Decimation> oil: is preware gonna support downloading a file from a URL like file coaster does?
Aug 17 19:50:20 <PuffTheMagic> Zuchmir2: did u forget to push
Aug 17 19:50:22 <oil> i dont think that was on the feature list
Aug 17 19:50:23 <PuffTheMagic> cause i pulled today
Aug 17 19:50:27 <PuffTheMagic> and it didnt work
Aug 17 19:50:47 <oil> its a front end for the ipkgservice
Aug 17 19:50:49 <destinal1> Decimation: I don't think it's planned at this point
Aug 17 19:50:51 <oil> not for downloading stuff to your pre
Aug 17 19:50:53 <Zuchmir2> yeah, the current HEAD has the black on black issue resolved as well as "lock-up" on exit of prefs
Aug 17 19:51:11 <destinal1> ok will push new release
Aug 17 19:51:20 <Zuchmir2> PuffTheMagic: what didn't work?
Aug 17 19:51:35 <Zuchmir2> destinal: 1 sec, let's see what's wrong...
Aug 17 19:51:59 <Decimation> oil, destinal1: okay, just wondering.. it has helped me out a few times.
Aug 17 19:52:24 <PuffTheMagic> Zuchmir2: my terminal is black when i start it
Aug 17 19:52:28 <PuffTheMagic> unless i open prefs
Aug 17 19:52:31 <PuffTheMagic> then close prefs
Aug 17 19:52:34 <PuffTheMagic> then i get a prompt
Aug 17 19:52:38 <PuffTheMagic> and if you say you fixed it
Aug 17 19:52:46 <PuffTheMagic> im asking if you forgot to push the fix to the server
Aug 17 19:53:40 <Zuchmir2> no, startt fresh, ie     rm  /var/palm/data/file_.var.usr.palm.applications.org.webosinternals.terminal_0/*
Aug 17 19:53:59 <Zuchmir2> then open latest HEAD, see if it opens properly
Aug 17 19:54:21 <Zuchmir2> note you must update the plugin as well as the mojo
Aug 17 19:54:27 <PuffTheMagic> yeah i installed both
Aug 17 19:54:31 <PuffTheMagic> both 0.1.8
Aug 17 19:54:50 <destinal1> PuffTheMagic: you need to remove the preferences data where he said though if it's already saved as the wrong thing
Aug 17 19:55:48 <PuffTheMagic> is that db file or just plain text prefs file
Aug 17 19:55:59 <Zuchmir2> that's standard db
Aug 17 19:56:31 <Zuchmir2> ... if u went into prefs, it should save properly either way
Aug 17 19:56:46 <Zuchmir2> ... and next time you open it should be your selected colors
Aug 17 19:56:57 <bpadalino|work> what caused the lock up ?
Aug 17 19:57:02 <Decimation> oil: i added some suggestions at the bottom here: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Talk:Preware_Design
Aug 17 19:58:20 <Zuchmir2> when drawing it was sending a message to a non-existant thread
Aug 17 19:58:22 <destinal1> Decimation: so 0.1.8 is the current broken version, yeah?
Aug 17 19:58:39 <bpadalino|work> non-existant sounds bad
Aug 17 19:58:47 <Decimation> destinal1: whats broken?
Aug 17 19:59:02 <destinal1> stupid tab completion
Aug 17 19:59:05 <Zuchmir2> that only happened when the Draw() was requested before init()
Aug 17 19:59:06 <destinal1> I meant that at Zuchmir2
Aug 17 19:59:20 <PuffTheMagic> Decimation: he cant do progress bar until i add subscription support
Aug 17 19:59:38 <bpadalino|work> i saw the lock up once .. it was interesting ..
Aug 17 19:59:47 <bpadalino|work> couldn't throw away the terminal .. it would come back
Aug 17 19:59:51 <Decimation> PuffTheMagic: ah, okay.
Aug 17 19:59:57 <Zuchmir2> the current release is faulty, i think it's .8
Aug 17 20:00:11 <Zuchmir2> ... i haven't been following the release numbers
Aug 17 20:00:19 <bpadalino|work> it's all faulty until it reaches 1.0, isn't it ?
Aug 17 20:00:50 <Zuchmir2> PuffTheMagic: did it work ok after deleting the .db?
Aug 17 20:01:40 <Zuchmir2> no, it is pretty stable now, although there are alot of UI which has to change, but what's there *should* work
Aug 17 20:10:48 <misterikkit> I'm interested in writing a birthday reminders application.
Aug 17 20:10:58 <misterikkit> If anybody is working on one, I'm willing to contribute
Aug 17 20:11:16 <misterikkit> if not, I'd like to know what features you think would make such a program worthwhile
Aug 17 20:11:26 <bpadalino|work> a calendar is no good ?
Aug 17 20:11:49 <misterikkit> your contacts already have a birthday field, it's annoying to have to add a calendar event for each birthday
Aug 17 20:12:54 <bpadalino|work> interesting
Aug 17 20:17:46 <czarphanguye> misterikkit: it's got to remind me about it, I'll never check the contact page.  And if it would auto add an entry to the cal that's a plus (cause that will then sync w/ gCal and that's another plus.)
Aug 17 20:22:21 <gkatsev> i use the fbcal extension in google calendar which adds an event based on facebook bdays and stuff
Aug 17 20:22:34 <misterikkit> czarphanguye: thanks, I hadn't realized that adding to the calendar would be a good idea. Some apps create their own calendars though, and I don't think those sync to google...
Aug 17 20:23:17 <misterikkit> gkatsev: that sounds like it would do the trick for FB contacts at least.
Aug 17 20:24:35 <czarphanguye> gkatsev: Didn't know you could do that, yet (and prob fortunately) most of my family + loved ones aren't on Fb.
Aug 17 20:29:20 <czarphanguye> misterikkit: yw, if you need someone to test, I'm almost always here.
Aug 17 20:32:25 <misterikkit> Thanks. I may be slow to write it, but I will come back here when I have something testable.
Aug 17 20:37:04 <gkatsev> czarphanguye: right, as misterikkit said, it solves the problem for FB contacts
Aug 17 20:38:03 <misterikkit> If I implemented it as a Pre app, at least the notifications could have birthday-ish icons...
Aug 17 20:38:25 <gkatsev> heh
Aug 17 20:44:11 <PuffTheMagic> geist: ping!
Aug 17 20:47:07 <mrjcarter> any advice on getting Preware to stop spinning on the Updating screen?
Aug 17 20:48:52 <Saiks> hi all... i am trying to create a button and when pressed, will display a mess. and when i press 'OK', then mess box will close. I got the mess box to pop up but no ok button
Aug 17 20:49:24 <Saiks> This what i got so far:
Aug 17 20:49:28 <Saiks> this.controller.showAlertDialog({
Aug 17 20:49:46 <Saiks> title: 'Login Error',
Aug 17 20:50:01 <Saiks> message: "Username and password are required.",
Aug 17 20:50:12 <gkatsev> Saiks: pastebin it: webos.pastebin.com
Aug 17 20:50:20 <Saiks> preventCancel: false,
Aug 17 20:50:36 <Saiks> ok
Aug 17 20:52:39 <Decimation> what'd the terminal update do?
Aug 17 20:56:49 <Saiks> i just posted it
Aug 17 21:04:17 <Saiks> can body help me
Aug 17 21:04:39 <destinal1> Saiks: bodies help quite a bit
Aug 17 21:04:55 <destinal1> Saiks: do you have the URL for your pastebin?
Aug 17 21:07:48 <Decimation> http://webos.pastebin.com/m2b3426e5?
Aug 17 21:07:48 <Saiks> webos.pastebin.com
Aug 17 21:08:38 <Saiks> thanks Decimation
Aug 17 21:09:45 <Saiks> Also how do i read the value of a textfield with a button
Aug 17 21:11:19 <Decimation> hah, i wish palm would've choose like, c++
Aug 17 21:11:39 <gkatsev> i dont
Aug 17 21:11:44 <Decimation> char *textBox = textfield.input;
Aug 17 21:11:52 <Decimation> so much easier for me :P
Aug 17 21:14:30 <bpadalino|work> i am sure once you know html/js/css - it's significantly easier to get things done in that versus c++
Aug 17 21:14:59 <destinal1> Saiks: could it be the trailing comma that's the problem after OK?
Aug 17 21:15:11 <destinal1> I'm not very good with mojo yet
Aug 17 21:16:03 <gkatsev> the comma after 10 on line 5, doesnt seem like it belongs
Aug 17 21:16:22 <lmorchard> Trailing commas mean you should look into using JSLint
Aug 17 21:17:15 <Decimation> Saiks: yeah, the comment after the "10" doesn't seem right..
Aug 17 21:18:27 <destinal1> lmorchard: ++
Aug 17 21:18:27 <Saiks> I took out the comma but the same problem
Aug 17 21:18:38 <lmorchard> It also depends on where you're using that code.  If it's in stage-assistant, this.controller should probably be Mojo.Controller.stageController.activeScene()
Aug 17 21:19:37 <Decimation> im going off c++ knowledge here but, is the , after 10 supposed to be ;
Aug 17 21:19:46 <Decimation> since its ending the statement inside the brackets.
Aug 17 21:19:53 <lmorchard> but since I copy & pasted that from another example, there's probably a shorter way to get to that
Aug 17 21:20:06 <lmorchard> Decimation: That would be a syntax error there in JS
Aug 17 21:20:16 <Saiks> check this one: http://webos.pastebin.com/m61c14de9
Aug 17 21:20:26 <Decimation> lmorchard: ah, like i said, idk JS :P
Aug 17 21:21:31 <lmorchard> Saiks: Where do you call handleButtonPress?  You may be missing a .bind(this) there
Aug 17 21:21:51 <lmorchard> Also, I'm thinking username and password are undefined.
Aug 17 21:22:01 <gkatsev> carefull jslint will make you cry
Aug 17 21:22:11 <Saiks>     Mojo.Event.listen(this.controller.get('loginButton'), Mojo.Event.tap, this.handleButtonPress.bind(this));
Aug 17 21:22:11 <lmorchard> "jslint will hurt your feelings"
Aug 17 21:22:28 <Saiks> It's in setup
Aug 17 21:22:38 <lmorchard> Hmm, so the problem might just be that username and password are undefined in the scope of that function
Aug 17 21:22:47 <lmorchard> lines 2-3 of the pastebin
Aug 17 21:23:53 <bpadalino|work> jslint is pretty awesome
Aug 17 21:25:49 <gkatsev> jslint then jsmin
Aug 17 21:25:52 <lmorchard> I need to finally release my app... it's just a lame web-sync'ing notepad, but I spent a lot of time in JSDoc, JSLint, and Mojo.Test
Aug 17 21:26:13 <gkatsev> i wonder how much faster a jsmined pre app will be compared to a non jsmined app.
Aug 17 21:26:24 <lmorchard> I wouldn't really bother with jsmin though
Aug 17 21:26:25 <gkatsev> if at all
Aug 17 21:26:53 <lmorchard> Probably not faster, since minifying is mainly for HTTP, and the minifying can be mostly reversed by a beauitifier
Aug 17 21:27:07 <Saiks> I am try to get the dialog box to work correctly... The 'OK' button doesn't show
Aug 17 21:27:17 <Rick_work> min doesn't help with the v8 engine
Aug 17 21:27:33 <Rick_work> unless your usuing eval() which jslint would have beat you up over.
Aug 17 21:27:42 <gkatsev> right, im not saying minify to obfuscate the code, but yeah, i guess on the pre it wouldnt make much difference. would be cool to see some benchmarks tough
Aug 17 21:27:46 <Rick_work> v8 is effectively a compiler,  so min doesn't really help
Aug 17 21:28:04 <gkatsev> Rick_work: really? ok then, i guess ill only minify for the web then
Aug 17 21:29:34 <Rick_work> what is Mojo.Test?
Aug 17 21:29:36 <lmorchard> Saiks: Hmm, unfortunately I think I'm stumped.  Other than the undefined vars, that showAlertDialog call looks a lot like one I use in my working code
Aug 17 21:30:03 <lmorchard> Rick_work: A test framework in Mojo.  No docs for it, so I'm probably asking for trouble using it
Aug 17 21:30:16 <lmorchard> But, it's running my test pretty nicely
Aug 17 21:30:32 <egaudet> how do i ssh to emulator
Aug 17 21:30:48 <egaudet> or do you just use novaterm
Aug 17 21:30:54 <bpadalino|work> novaterm works for the emulator too
Aug 17 21:31:45 <intro1> intro :(
Aug 17 21:32:31 <lmorchard> fwiw, Mojo.Test comes with a test runner scene that I wired into my stage-assistant like so: http://github.com/lmorchard/memento/blob/74e00bb64788a8cdd247612ba502751dcf5e57d2/webos/com.decafbad.memento/app/assistants/stage-assistant.js
Aug 17 21:32:39 <lmorchard> and then tests: http://github.com/lmorchard/memento/tree/74e00bb64788a8cdd247612ba502751dcf5e57d2/webos/com.decafbad.memento/tests
Aug 17 21:33:23 <lmorchard> helps to get all the non-GUI code ironed out and verified before poking around on the screen
Aug 17 21:34:30 <gkatsev> i should get a github account...
Aug 17 21:35:05 <lmorchard> I was running my own cvs, svn, hg, and then git server... github has been so much nicer
Aug 17 21:36:07 <gkatsev> havent really used many rcses before, i should start using them more...
Aug 17 21:36:25 <gkatsev> anyway, going home now
Aug 17 21:36:26 <gkatsev> ttyl
Aug 17 21:36:30 <lmorchard> Then you won't have felt the pain of each previous kind :)
Aug 17 21:37:35 <gkatsev> lmorchard: like, i used svn and am now using cvs at work but i only really use it twice, once to get the files i need to work and again to commit, actually cvs inside of netbeans was pretty easy.
Aug 17 21:37:50 <gkatsev> *right click -> commit*
Aug 17 21:37:55 <bpadalino|work> git is nice ... pretty interesting
Aug 17 21:38:00 <lmorchard> You'll want to stab CVS when it comes time to rename a directory
Aug 17 21:38:22 <gkatsev> and tortoise svn was pretty easy as well... though, no one knew how it worked because they barely use it except for when committing, lol
Aug 17 21:38:38 <gkatsev> lmorchard: im not going to be doing that anyway here, so... (i'm only a coop)
Aug 17 21:39:02 <lmorchard> Oh, and forget about ever naming a file the same as a directory that was once deleted.
Aug 17 21:39:03 <gkatsev> but yeah, i definitely see the benifit of git or even svn over cvs
Aug 17 21:39:11 <gkatsev> lol
Aug 17 21:39:23 <gkatsev> ok, well, actually leaving now
Aug 17 21:39:27 * gkatsev -> home
Aug 17 21:39:29 <lmorchard> But there are plenty of stabby bits to all RCSs, but the newest ones are less stabby
Aug 17 21:39:59 <gkatsev> lmorchard: im tweeting that, lol
Aug 17 21:40:05 <lmorchard> :D
Aug 17 21:41:15 <gkatsev> http://twitter.com/akumu/status/3369519013
Aug 17 21:41:44 <gkatsev> crap... forgot hashtags cant have hyphens, oh well
Aug 17 21:41:59 <gkatsev> lmorchard: you are now slighly more internet famous. :D
Aug 17 21:42:07 <lmorchard> heh heh
Aug 17 21:42:09 * gkatsev -> home, for realz this time
Aug 17 21:48:37 <egaudet> What does sym+k do on the pre?
Aug 17 21:54:32 * Templarian thinks not sure for him it brought up a timer that started counting down from 10, luckily if you hit it again it goes away. Instant grenade maybe?
Aug 17 21:54:34 <max_> egaudet: in a text field it gives me :-)
Aug 17 21:55:39 <egaudet> poop
Aug 17 21:55:44 <egaudet> what about orange+k
Aug 17 21:56:16 <bpadalino|work> i am guessing :
Aug 17 21:56:44 <Templarian> Can I add more symbols to that sym+k menu?
Aug 17 21:56:59 <egaudet> does orange+sym+k do anything?
Aug 17 21:57:14 <egaudet> sorry i don't have my pre with me
Aug 17 21:57:14 <Templarian> nope.
Aug 17 22:09:58 <Decimation> wow, the pre already has a voice recording app on it... technically.
Aug 17 22:10:13 <Decimation> there is an app on the pre that allows you to record yourself talking, and then play back.
Aug 17 22:10:48 <max_> Decimation: ??
Aug 17 22:10:54 <max_> what app?
Aug 17 22:11:08 <Decimation> max_: on one of the interactive test built into the phone
Aug 17 22:11:16 <Decimation> it has you record your voice with a record button
Aug 17 22:11:20 <Decimation> then play back.
Aug 17 22:11:28 * czarphanguye hopes a call recorder is released, for educational purpose only ;-)
Aug 17 22:11:44 <max_> ahh cool.
Aug 17 22:22:43 <Decimation> ive traced the record scene back to t his
Aug 17 22:23:29 <Decimation>  /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.deviceinfo/app/controllers/audio-Telephone-assistant.js
Aug 17 22:25:27 <max_> good, hopefully something can come of this
Aug 17 22:26:34 <rwhitby> Decimation: start a research wiki page?  just like the video recording one?
Aug 17 22:27:15 <Decimation> var request3 = new Mojo.Service.Request('palm://com.palm.crotest', {
Aug 17 22:27:16 <Decimation> 						method: 'RecordSound',
Aug 17 22:27:18 <Decimation> 						parameters: {},
Aug 17 22:27:25 <Decimation> that seems to be where it records audio...
Aug 17 22:29:04 <Decimation> rwhitby: i'll probably throw a wiki page together after i get more info
Aug 17 22:32:21 <Decimation> anyone else who wants to construct a wiki page for this?
Aug 17 22:32:30 <Decimation> im leaving now and wont be back till late.
Aug 17 22:34:01 <Rick_work> let's get a bare bones one with just that info
Aug 17 22:34:05 <Rick_work> so it isn't lost.
Aug 17 22:34:09 <Rick_work> GOOD GOD
Aug 17 22:34:14 <Rick_work> yet another "hidden gem"
Aug 17 22:35:49 <Rick_work> Templarian  is .4  the most recent you've pushed.  Are there any patches that I can get or is what I have still close to current?
Aug 17 22:35:57 <Rick_work> of the add-on
Aug 17 22:38:40 <Templarian> .4pre6?
Aug 17 22:38:54 <Templarian> The addon updates it should ask you to update.
Aug 17 22:39:15 <Templarian> It checks every so often if not just tools > addon > check for updates.
Aug 17 22:46:22 <egaudet> rwhitby, got a quick hack to put oskb on emulator if you ever want to
Aug 17 22:54:11 <egaudet> nm the emulator is stupid
Aug 17 22:58:49 <tmzt> do floating divs work?
Aug 17 23:03:07 <livewire1337> yes
Aug 17 23:03:19 <livewire1337> i use floating divs all the time
Aug 17 23:46:23 <t3rmin> maybe this isn't news but the "arecord" command will record audio from the command line
Aug 17 23:58:22 <destinal> t3rmin: I think it's not news, but it is cool
Aug 17 23:59:00 <epyon22> hey whats the cmd to install preware using ipkg?
Aug 17 23:59:14 <epyon22> i thought it was ipkg -o /var/ preware
Aug 18 00:02:12 <destinal> ipkg -o /var install org.webosinternals.preware
Aug 18 00:03:12 <atlanta> is it me or the tap ripple affect is a waste and just a waste of gfx processing
Aug 18 00:06:30 <destinal> atlanta: you can disable it if you like
Aug 18 00:06:45 <atlanta> how
Aug 18 00:06:45 <atlanta> ?
Aug 18 00:06:52 <destinal> edit  /etc/palm/luna.conf
Aug 18 00:07:07 <atlanta> hahah have i ever told you
Aug 18 00:07:09 <atlanta> you the man
Aug 18 00:07:11 <destinal> make
Aug 18 00:07:11 <destinal> ShowReticle=true
Aug 18 00:07:16 <destinal> into   ShowReticle=false
Aug 18 00:07:45 <destinal> atlanta: :)
Aug 18 00:07:58 <destinal> then pkill LunaSysMgr
Aug 18 00:08:47 <atlanta> ok cool
Aug 18 00:09:33 <destinal> it works on my emulator anyway, if you want to try it and confirm that's cool, I don't think anyone has talked about it before
Aug 18 00:09:42 <atlanta> ok
Aug 18 00:09:45 <atlanta> yea man i hate it
Aug 18 00:09:52 <atlanta> seems it slows me down
Aug 18 00:09:56 <atlanta> ill test and confirm now
Aug 18 00:10:00 <atlanta> then wiki it
Aug 18 00:10:19 <destinal> nobody ever accused luna of being consistently snappy
Aug 18 00:10:37 <epyon22> its nice to know you tapped there when it doesnt do any thing
Aug 18 00:10:54 <atlanta> destinal: ++ to that
Aug 18 00:11:04 <destinal> atlanta:  while we're at it did you see the wiki page I made on debug switches in luna?
Aug 18 00:11:05 <destinal> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Luna_Debug_Switches
Aug 18 00:11:15 <atlanta> no i didnt take a look at it now
Aug 18 00:26:20 <destinal> atlanta: did you try it
Aug 18 00:26:43 <atlanta> did the rectile and it worked
Aug 18 00:26:47 <atlanta> going to try debug now
Aug 18 00:28:09 <atlanta> destinal: it works looks like some debug info on the Luna Start up also
Aug 18 00:28:17 <atlanta> just some numbers
Aug 18 00:28:31 <destinal> yeah, framerate
Aug 18 00:29:10 <destinal> you don't have to use all the options it's just cool to see them all at once
Aug 18 00:31:11 <atlanta> yea
Aug 18 00:31:16 <atlanta> it cool how it follows u
Aug 18 00:31:18 <atlanta> and everything
Aug 18 00:33:15 <atlanta> gonna finish my app tonight
Aug 18 00:33:30 <epyon22> wow preware is a really nice app
Aug 18 00:34:05 <epyon22> gj for who ever was working on it i cant remember who
Aug 18 00:34:06 <atlanta> which one is preware
Aug 18 00:34:11 <epyon22> its an app manager
Aug 18 00:34:18 <epyon22> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware
Aug 18 00:34:28 <epyon22> like file coaster but much better written
Aug 18 00:34:50 <atlanta> oh lalal
Aug 18 00:34:54 <atlanta> looks marvlous
Aug 18 00:35:02 <atlanta> ill be back on later
Aug 18 00:35:05 <atlanta> destinal: thanks again
Aug 18 00:36:07 <destinal> yw
Aug 18 00:37:15 * oil just threw some code together based on all the work people already did designing its look/etc
Aug 18 00:39:29 <atlanta> epyon22: works great
Aug 18 00:39:33 <atlanta> and lets you know of updates
Aug 18 00:39:35 <atlanta> ! :-)
Aug 18 00:39:38 <destinal> oil: you threw together *good* code though.  :)
Aug 18 00:39:38 * atlanta is happy
Aug 18 00:40:04 <oil> haha
Aug 18 00:40:06 <destinal> and yeah Rick_work and others have done design and stuff
Aug 18 00:40:11 <destinal> and usability testing
Aug 18 00:40:34 <destinal> and PuffTheMagic and others on the ipkgservice it depends on
Aug 18 00:40:48 <oil> yeah
Aug 18 00:40:51 <oil> mojo is easy
Aug 18 00:41:28 <destinal> so basically it's a community effort, but congrats to oil and to everyone who's working on it
Aug 18 00:42:12 <destinal> since oil jumping in really got the ball rolling a lot faster IMO.  the mojo matters a lot :)
Aug 18 00:43:17 <epyon22_> man my comp is way too old
Aug 18 00:43:32 <oil> i hate that feeling
Aug 18 00:43:41 <destinal> driving bbl
Aug 18 00:43:45 <oil> though i used my last pc untill it just wouldn't boot anymore
Aug 18 00:43:49 <oil> haha
Aug 18 00:43:51 <epyon22_> lol
Aug 18 00:43:52 <oil> now its mobo is sitting on a shelf
Aug 18 00:44:01 <epyon22_> ive had mine for almost 5 years now
Aug 18 00:44:07 <oil> and i replaced the amd xp 3200  with a core 2 quad
Aug 18 00:44:11 <epyon22_> nice
Aug 18 00:44:19 <epyon22_> mine is a p4 2.6 ghz ht
Aug 18 00:44:25 <epyon22_> with a 6600 gt oc in it
Aug 18 00:44:27 <oil> not a bad machine
Aug 18 00:44:30 <oil> better then my work pc
Aug 18 00:44:40 <epyon22_> it can still rock some new games on low settings
Aug 18 00:44:45 <oil> haha
Aug 18 00:45:09 <oil> yeah
Aug 18 00:45:09 <epyon22_> assasins creed 10 fps when your in the ceter part of the game
Aug 18 00:45:12 <oil> i game on my xbox
Aug 18 00:45:14 <oil> not on my pc
Aug 18 00:45:23 <oil> besides maybe minesweeper
Aug 18 00:45:24 <epyon22_> get like 15 fps in towns lol
Aug 18 00:45:33 <epyon22_> eh i like computers better
Aug 18 00:45:50 <oil> personal preference
Aug 18 00:45:57 * oil is not going to get into any arguments about it
Aug 18 00:46:03 <epyon22> yeah
Aug 18 00:46:19 <epyon22> lol
Aug 18 00:46:43 <epyon22> i just like the mouse and keboard for things like fps's and stuff
Aug 18 00:46:49 <epyon22> joysticks for racing games
Aug 18 00:46:56 * oil ignores
Aug 18 00:56:20 <bsdbandit> hey guys hows it going
Aug 18 01:00:50 <PuffTheMagic> geist: pinging ping ping
Aug 18 01:01:01 <geist> PONG
Aug 18 01:01:03 <bsdbandit> has anyone in this channel written apps for the webos im just trying out the hello world apps. but im trying to install my app to the pre it says rename the source directory to make the id defined in my appinfo.json file i just put hello for the id so what do i rename it to
Aug 18 01:01:09 <bsdbandit> ?
Aug 18 01:02:07 <geist> heh, someone here was all happy about the novaterm for windows app, saying it was awesome how great the community is
Aug 18 01:02:12 <geist> i had to let him down easy
Aug 18 01:02:22 <geist> need to put that source up tonight, i'll do that when i get home
Aug 18 01:04:48 <tmzt> geist: well, we never got a protocol document, so more work for you or whatever
Aug 18 01:05:05 <geist> you asked?
Aug 18 01:05:22 <tmzt> I guess not, we did talk about it
Aug 18 01:05:33 <geist> with who?
Aug 18 01:05:38 <tmzt> might have been a better approach
Aug 18 01:05:49 <tmzt> I mean in that channel, soon after the Pre was released
Aug 18 01:05:53 <tmzt> this
Aug 18 01:06:50 <geist> PuffTheMagic: well, gotta go. heading home
Aug 18 01:06:52 <geist> will be on later
Aug 18 01:06:55 <PuffTheMagic> k
Aug 18 01:07:08 <PuffTheMagic> unless you have 30s
Aug 18 01:07:13 <PuffTheMagic> to answer a quickie
Aug 18 01:15:13 <Decimation> hey guys, im back.
Aug 18 01:15:20 <Decimation> did anyone see what i said earlier
Aug 18 01:15:32 <Decimation> about a service already on the phone that like.. records audio.
Aug 18 01:19:08 <jcrawford> i need some feedback on this tutorial: http://www.webosboston.org/2009/08/17/a-basic-webos-application-and-the-depot/
Aug 18 01:19:23 <jcrawford> just leave feedback/questions in the comments area
Aug 18 01:25:24 <max_> oil: what's the deal with the endless updating when I launch preware both on the emulater and phone?
Aug 18 01:25:36 <max_> btw I installed via webos quick install following instructions on the wiki
Aug 18 01:26:09 <rwhitby> max_: close it and open it again
Aug 18 01:26:12 * oil looks at rwhitby and PuffTheMagic
Aug 18 01:26:19 <oil> closing and opening didnt work for me either
Aug 18 01:26:23 <oil> the service isnt running
Aug 18 01:26:34 <oil> and without access to luna-send it
Aug 18 01:26:38 <oil> you cant start it
Aug 18 01:26:58 <rwhitby> ok, so we need to get more information about this problem, cause it's not repeatable across all people's Pre's or Emulators.
Aug 18 01:27:17 <max_> rwhitby: what do you need
Aug 18 01:27:26 <rwhitby> max_: do you have linux access?
Aug 18 01:27:40 <max_> yes
Aug 18 01:27:57 <max_> I am using novaproxy and putty on windows vista
Aug 18 01:28:00 <rwhitby> "ps -ef | grep webosinternals" <- does it return anything?
Aug 18 01:30:09 <rwhitby> max_: if I stop responding, it's cause I've needed to go into a meeting and will be back in 1 to 1.5 hours.
Aug 18 01:30:25 <max_> rwhitby: it returned something
Aug 18 01:30:29 <max_> a TON of text
Aug 18 01:30:29 <oil> haha
Aug 18 01:31:14 <rwhitby> max_: do you have any other webosinternals services installed?  like the accelservice or ledservice ?
Aug 18 01:32:15 <max_> I had accelservice, but uninstalled with quick install
Aug 18 01:32:44 <max_> rwhitby: accelservice seemed to work for me with the sample app
Aug 18 01:33:05 <rwhitby> max_: have you rebooted since you uninstalled accelservice?
Aug 18 01:33:24 <max_> rwhitby: yep
Aug 18 01:34:40 <rwhitby> max_: do you know how to use luna-send?
Aug 18 01:34:47 <max_> no
Aug 18 01:35:49 <rwhitby> max_: run the following two lines:
Aug 18 01:35:55 <rwhitby> "/sbin/initctl stop java-serviceboot"
Aug 18 01:35:59 <rwhitby> "/sbin/initctl start java-serviceboot"
Aug 18 01:36:18 <rwhitby> then see if Preware starts ok
Aug 18 01:37:13 <oil> i wonder if there is a way for me to check if the service is running with mojo
Aug 18 01:39:09 <oil> even in the emulator
Aug 18 01:39:18 <oil> i just updated the service to 0.5.0
Aug 18 01:39:22 <oil> with preware
Aug 18 01:39:24 <oil> rebooted
Aug 18 01:39:28 <oil> updating lockup
Aug 18 01:39:29 <analog`> rwhitby, do you have a pre  yet?
Aug 18 01:39:39 <max_> how long should the updating take?
Aug 18 01:39:50 <oil> not long at all
Aug 18 01:39:59 <rwhitby> analog`: no GSM Pre released yet - CDMA doesn't work in .au
Aug 18 01:40:01 <oil> my tests in the emu i barely ever saw it
Aug 18 01:40:04 <oil> it goes right to Loading
Aug 18 01:40:55 <analog`> rwhitby, dang.  one day
Aug 18 01:41:00 <oil> and the java-serviceboot didnt fix it
Aug 18 01:41:30 <rwhitby> oil: try:
Aug 18 01:41:43 <rwhitby> "/sbin/initctl start org.webosinternals.ipkgservice"
Aug 18 01:41:55 <max_> rwhitby: doesnt seem to be working
Aug 18 01:42:09 <rwhitby> max_: try the line above that I gave to oil
Aug 18 01:42:16 <oil> emu: no effect
Aug 18 01:42:24 <oil> running luna-send doesnt seem to fix it either
Aug 18 01:42:57 <max_> rwhitby: while preware is already running?
Aug 18 01:43:07 <oil> luna-send -n 1 palm://org.webosinternals.ipkgservice/update {}
Aug 18 01:43:07 <oil> ** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, {"errorCode": "ErrorGenericMethodException", "errorText": "You fail!"}
Aug 18 01:43:12 <rwhitby> max_: can you tell me the second line in /var/etc/ipkg/webos-internals.conf ?
Aug 18 01:43:29 <max_> rwhitby: sorry how?
Aug 18 01:43:32 <rwhitby> max_: close preware, run the line, open preware
Aug 18 01:43:44 <rwhitby> max_: "cat /var/etc/ipkg/webos-internals.conf"
Aug 18 01:43:50 <oil> where can i get an older ipk of the service?
Aug 18 01:44:04 <rwhitby> oil: they are all in the feed
Aug 18 01:44:19 <max_> initctl: (00593/495888671) Unknown job: org.webosinternals.ipkgservice
Aug 18 01:44:31 <rwhitby> max_: ok, there's the problem
Aug 18 01:44:47 <rwhitby> max_: which version of webos quick install did you use?
Aug 18 01:44:54 <max_> 2.0
Aug 18 01:44:56 <oil> running the postinst fixed it in the emu
Aug 18 01:45:03 <max_> I also did all the tweaks
Aug 18 01:45:08 <PuffTheMagic> max_: that is cause someone is prematurely pusing the Preware and ipkgservice to the feed when its not ready ;)
Aug 18 01:45:13 <PuffTheMagic> we are working on it
Aug 18 01:45:23 <rwhitby> oil: the error above leads me to think the postinst was not run
Aug 18 01:45:28 <oil> yeah
Aug 18 01:45:34 <oil> running it fixed it in the emulator
Aug 18 01:45:39 <oil> so, quickinstall fail
Aug 18 01:45:55 <rwhitby> oil: not repeatable though, more debugging required
Aug 18 01:46:06 <rwhitby> since it has worked many times for other people
Aug 18 01:46:46 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: the only way to experience this range of installation issues is to put it in the hands of people to test it.
Aug 18 01:47:13 <max_> rwhitby: so what is the solution? am I just gonna have to wait?
Aug 18 01:47:20 <PuffTheMagic> no testing is needed i know the service fails
Aug 18 01:47:25 <Noahbody> why cant i get this sdk to run?
Aug 18 01:47:26 <oil> max
Aug 18 01:47:27 <PuffTheMagic> at this point only devs need to be testing it
Aug 18 01:47:29 <oil> sh /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst
Aug 18 01:47:30 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: if you don't subscribe to that view, please simply ignore questions about installation issues in this channel
Aug 18 01:47:32 <PuffTheMagic> it dont even pass my tests yet
Aug 18 01:47:37 <PuffTheMagic> no need to give it to others yet
Aug 18 01:47:40 <Noahbody> i got a replacement pre today now i have to re root it
Aug 18 01:47:46 <rwhitby> max_: run the line that oil pasted
Aug 18 01:47:53 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: its not an install issue, its a runtime issue
Aug 18 01:47:58 <PuffTheMagic> cause the service isnt getting started
Aug 18 01:48:03 <PuffTheMagic> which is a bug on my part
Aug 18 01:48:04 <PuffTheMagic> that i know of
Aug 18 01:48:10 <PuffTheMagic> and it dont help to have people complaing about it
Aug 18 01:48:13 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: it's an install issue - max_ doesn't have the upstart file in place
Aug 18 01:48:30 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: well see... i didnt know that you injected the upstart script
Aug 18 01:48:39 <PuffTheMagic> cause you dont tell me what going on with the service that im working on
Aug 18 01:49:02 <max_> sweet, it worked
Aug 18 01:49:18 <rwhitby> max_: now we need to work out why it didn't install properly
Aug 18 01:49:27 <max_> alright
Aug 18 01:49:35 <rwhitby> max_: can you describe exactly what you did in webos quick install when you installed it?
Aug 18 01:50:10 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: we discussed the upstart script yesterday.
Aug 18 01:50:39 <PuffTheMagic> we "discussed" that it might be needed, i never heard anyone say go a head and inject it into the ipkg
Aug 18 01:51:03 <max_> first I installed accelservice and package service
Aug 18 01:51:19 <rwhitby> max_: in the same step, or separate install steps?
Aug 18 01:51:23 <max_> same
Aug 18 01:51:42 <rwhitby> ok, that's the problem
Aug 18 01:51:49 <max_> after those got transfered and installed, I installed preware and the accell sample app
Aug 18 01:52:08 <oil> rwhitby: i installed the service on its own
Aug 18 01:52:08 <max_> however, I did go back uninstall everything and try just the package service
Aug 18 01:52:13 <oil> then preware
Aug 18 01:52:14 <rwhitby> there's a bug in webos quick install where it only runs one postinst irrespective of how many apps are installed at the same time
Aug 18 01:52:16 <oil> with teh same result
Aug 18 01:52:37 <rwhitby> max_: so it would have run the accelservice postinst, but not the ipkgservice one.
Aug 18 01:52:55 <rwhitby> max_: that's why the install instructions say to do it as two separate steps (until WebOS Quick Install bug gets fixed)
Aug 18 01:53:03 <tmzt> what is accelservice?
Aug 18 01:53:20 <oil> rwhitby: i did ipkgservice on its own
Aug 18 01:53:22 <oil> to the same result
Aug 18 01:53:28 <rwhitby> tmzt: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:AccelService
Aug 18 01:53:44 <max_> the wiki says the service and the app in two separate steps but not that two services cant be installed at the same stime
Aug 18 01:53:52 <rwhitby> oil: even after restarting Preware?
Aug 18 01:53:57 <oil> yes
Aug 18 01:54:02 <rwhitby> max_: thanks, I'll update the wiki.
Aug 18 01:54:53 <rwhitby> max_: can you uninstall everything, reboot the Pre, then start again and see if it works?
Aug 18 01:54:55 <Rick-home> Hi max_
Aug 18 01:55:24 <oil> rwhitby
Aug 18 01:55:25 <max_> hello Rick-home
Aug 18 01:55:25 <oil> i did
Aug 18 01:55:29 <oil> removed both
Aug 18 01:55:30 <oil> rebooted
Aug 18 01:55:33 <max_> rwhitby: what does everything mean?
Aug 18 01:55:38 <oil> tried again ipkg alone, then preware
Aug 18 01:55:43 <max_> just the package service and preware?
Aug 18 01:55:49 <rwhitby> max_: yes, those tow
Aug 18 01:55:50 <rwhitby> two
Aug 18 01:55:59 <rwhitby> max_: remove one at a time
Aug 18 01:56:04 <tmzt> ah
Aug 18 01:56:08 <max_> preware first?
Aug 18 01:56:13 <tmzt> okay, for accelos.
Aug 18 01:56:38 <rwhitby> max_: yes, preware first
Aug 18 01:58:02 <max_> rwhitby: any reboots i should do?
Aug 18 01:58:50 <rwhitby> max_: reboot after removing both
Aug 18 01:59:09 <max_> k, doign that reboot now
Aug 18 01:59:16 <bsdbandit> has anyone in this channel written apps for the webos im just trying out the hello world apps. but im trying to install my app to the pre it says rename the source directory to make the id defined in my appinfo.json file i just put hello for the id so what do i rename it to
Aug 18 01:59:21 <bsdbandit> ?
Aug 18 01:59:27 <rwhitby> max_: thx for helping debug this
Aug 18 02:01:04 <rwhitby> bsdbandit: you should use the reverse DNS of a domain that you own with the app name appended after a dot, and call the source directory the same name as all that
Aug 18 02:01:06 <max_> rwhitby: no problem. even tho I only got to use it for 3 minutes before you made me uninstall, preware is amazing
Aug 18 02:01:20 <oil> haha
Aug 18 02:01:32 <max_> great work oil
Aug 18 02:01:44 <oil> it was nothing
Aug 18 02:01:48 <oil> everything was already layed out
Aug 18 02:01:52 <max_> oil: is it possible to have an update all option?
Aug 18 02:02:01 <rwhitby> max_: it's already there
Aug 18 02:02:09 <max_> oh, didnt see it
Aug 18 02:02:09 <rwhitby> oh, update all button, yeah
Aug 18 02:02:20 <rwhitby> oil: update all button at the bottom of the available updates list?
Aug 18 02:02:36 <oil> could be done
Aug 18 02:02:39 <rwhitby> (then we need to allow an empty arg to the update method if we don't already)
Aug 18 02:02:44 <oil> pretty easily
Aug 18 02:02:52 <oil> if no
Aug 18 02:02:53 <oil> not*
Aug 18 02:02:56 <oil> i could just loop them all
Aug 18 02:02:59 <rwhitby> rght
Aug 18 02:03:14 <max_> oil: what about progress bars?
Aug 18 02:03:30 <rwhitby> oil: in the fullness of time, there will be dependencies, so we'll want the "all" option for the service
Aug 18 02:03:53 <oil> i agree with all
Aug 18 02:04:01 <oil> and a progress bar requires changes to the service
Aug 18 02:04:05 <oil> so, its in their court xD
Aug 18 02:04:22 <max_> after reinstall, it doesnt seem to be wrking
Aug 18 02:04:36 <max_> rwhitby: ill am gonna try a reboot tho
Aug 18 02:04:55 <rwhitby> max_: check first with that initctl start org.webosinternals.ipkgservice command
Aug 18 02:05:17 <rwhitby> max_: actually, just close and restart Preware first
Aug 18 02:05:28 <max_> tool late
Aug 18 02:05:31 * oil could have told you it wasnt going to work, he did all of this on his pre already with no results
Aug 18 02:05:32 <rwhitby> try that first, then try the start service, then try reboot
Aug 18 02:06:05 <rwhitby> oil: I'm trying to ascertain whether the postinst was run or not
Aug 18 02:06:16 <oil> i dont think it was
Aug 18 02:06:26 <rwhitby> I need proof whether it fails to run when the postinst gets run correctly.
Aug 18 02:06:52 <rwhitby> to determine whether it's a simple installation problem, or something that we don't understand about services
Aug 18 02:08:58 <max_> nothing worked
Aug 18 02:09:04 <max_> gonna run the line oil sent before
Aug 18 02:09:22 <rwhitby> max_: what version of quick install are you using?
Aug 18 02:10:33 <max_> 2.0
Aug 18 02:10:55 <rwhitby> max_: does /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.ipkservice exist?
Aug 18 02:11:39 <max_> how would I know?
Aug 18 02:12:14 <rwhitby> max_: ls -l /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.ipkservice exist?
Aug 18 02:12:19 <rwhitby> max_: "ls -l /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.ipkservice"
Aug 18 02:13:35 <destinal> btw has anyone tried the new terminal 019?
Aug 18 02:13:50 <destinal> prefs actually work and apply immediately, and no crashing
Aug 18 02:13:56 <destinal> thanks to mrvc and Zuchmir2
Aug 18 02:14:40 <max_> no such file
Aug 18 02:14:49 <rwhitby> max_: ok, so the postinst didn't run
Aug 18 02:15:01 <rwhitby> max_: "ls -l /var/etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.ipkservice"
Aug 18 02:16:01 <max_> it say that it isnt found
Aug 18 02:16:13 <rwhitby> whoa, that's unexpected.
Aug 18 02:16:35 <rwhitby> max_: "ls -l /var/etc/event.d/org.*"
Aug 18 02:16:42 <rwhitby> oops typo
Aug 18 02:16:48 <rwhitby> max_: "ls -l /var/etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice"
Aug 18 02:16:53 <rwhitby> (missed the 'g')
Aug 18 02:17:38 <rwhitby> max_: does that one exist?
Aug 18 02:18:24 <max_> yes
Aug 18 02:18:54 <rwhitby> ok, so the ipkg installed ok, but the postinst wasn't run
Aug 18 02:19:09 <rwhitby> max_: the postinst file exists, and if you run it all is fine from then on?
Aug 18 02:20:09 <max_> how do I run it
Aug 18 02:20:22 <max_> I tried the commands oil gave earlier, they didnt work...
Aug 18 02:20:54 <rwhitby> max_: the "sh /var/usr/lib/ipkg/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst" command?
Aug 18 02:21:01 <rwhitby> oops
Aug 18 02:21:06 <rwhitby> max_: the "sh /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst" command?
Aug 18 02:21:13 <max_> yeah
Aug 18 02:21:32 <rwhitby> max_: so running that command, and then closing and opening Preware doesn't work?
Aug 18 02:21:52 <max_> nope
Aug 18 02:21:59 <oil> wha
Aug 18 02:22:15 <max_> it seems like the command is doing something tho
Aug 18 02:22:33 <rwhitby> max_: can you double check please?  we expect that running that command should fix things, right oil?
Aug 18 02:22:51 <oil> right
Aug 18 02:22:58 <oil> (ive done it on the emu twice to success)
Aug 18 02:22:59 <max_> so I should have preware running, run the command, close preware, open preware
Aug 18 02:23:10 <oil> close preware
Aug 18 02:23:11 <oil> run
Aug 18 02:23:12 <oil> open
Aug 18 02:23:44 <rwhitby> order shouldn't matter, but yes do the order oil said
Aug 18 02:23:56 * Rick-home watchs max_ pay his help forward and is very very happy to see it.  :-)
Aug 18 02:24:00 * oil goes for dinner
Aug 18 02:24:23 <max_> you wanna see what the command outputs?
Aug 18 02:24:28 <rwhitby> sure
Aug 18 02:24:30 <max_> root@castle:/# sh /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst
Aug 18 02:24:30 <max_> ln: /usr/lib/luna/java/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.jar: Read-only file system
Aug 18 02:24:30 <max_> ln: /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.service: Read-only file system
Aug 18 02:24:30 <max_> (01085/450915527) java-serviceboot (stop) running, process 2495
Aug 18 02:24:30 <max_> (01085/452105712) java-serviceboot (stop) pre-stop, (main) process 2495
Aug 18 02:24:31 <max_> (01085/452502441) java-serviceboot (stop) stopping, process 2495
Aug 18 02:24:33 <max_> (01085/453875732) java-serviceboot (stop) killed, process 2495
Aug 18 02:24:35 <max_> (01085/510577392) java-serviceboot (stop) post-stop
Aug 18 02:24:37 <max_> (01085/510974121) java-serviceboot (stop) waiting
Aug 18 02:24:39 <max_> ln: /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice: Read-only file system
Aug 18 02:24:41 <max_> (01085/787982177) java-serviceboot (start) waiting
Aug 18 02:24:43 <max_> (01085/790789794) java-serviceboot (start) starting
Aug 18 02:24:45 <max_> (01085/791674804) java-serviceboot (start) pre-start
Aug 18 02:24:47 <max_> (01085/794360351) java-serviceboot (start) spawned, process 2679
Aug 18 02:24:49 <max_> (01085/796191406) java-serviceboot (start) post-start, (main) process 2679
Aug 18 02:24:51 <max_> (01085/797198486) java-serviceboot (start) running, process 2679
Aug 18 02:24:54 <rwhitby> max_: aha!
Aug 18 02:25:01 <Rick-home> yippeee
Aug 18 02:25:33 <rwhitby> so WebOS Quick Install makes the filesystem r/w, then r/o again at the end.
Aug 18 02:25:45 <rwhitby> max_: do you know how to make the filesystem writeable?
Aug 18 02:25:49 <max_> nope
Aug 18 02:26:15 <rwhitby> can someone else help with that? I don't have a Pre, so never type ie.
Aug 18 02:26:17 <rwhitby> it
Aug 18 02:27:11 <Rick-home> uh
Aug 18 02:27:18 <Rick-home> mount -o remount -rw /
Aug 18 02:27:20 <Rick-home> I think
Aug 18 02:27:24 <Rick-home> but I can never remember
Aug 18 02:27:31 <max_> should I do that?
Aug 18 02:27:48 <Rick-home> mount -o remount,rw /
Aug 18 02:27:48 <rwhitby> that's not it
Aug 18 02:27:50 <Rick-home> like that
Aug 18 02:27:53 <rwhitby> that's it
Aug 18 02:28:05 <rwhitby> max_: run the second command, then re-run the postinst
Aug 18 02:28:27 <commandercup> how do I get webosdoctor to recognize my pre if it isn't actually frozen?
Aug 18 02:28:44 <rwhitby> commandercup: take a look at our recovery wiki page
Aug 18 02:29:06 <commandercup> ok
Aug 18 02:29:17 <commandercup> ahh ok thanks
Aug 18 02:29:32 <Rick-home> rwhitby:   there's also rootfs_open -w
Aug 18 02:29:35 <max_> humm, does seem to work still
Aug 18 02:29:40 <max_> doesnt**
Aug 18 02:29:48 <Rick-home> max   try this
Aug 18 02:29:49 <Rick-home> rootfs_open -w
Aug 18 02:29:57 <rwhitby> max_: do you get the read-only filesystem error now?
Aug 18 02:30:04 <max_> nope
Aug 18 02:30:12 <Rick-home> then the mount part worked at least
Aug 18 02:30:21 <Rick-home> now there's a different problem
Aug 18 02:30:26 <rwhitby> max_: do you know how to use pastebin?
Aug 18 02:30:32 <Decimation> oil, rwhitby: anyone working on auto-starting the ipkgservice?
Aug 18 02:30:42 <Rick-home> He'ld better
Aug 18 02:30:44 <rwhitby> Decimation: that's exactly what we're debugging now
Aug 18 02:30:48 <Rick-home> that's what we're working on now dec
Aug 18 02:30:49 <Decimation> max_: what are you trying to get working?
Aug 18 02:31:00 <Rick-home> ipkgservice
Aug 18 02:31:08 <Decimation> it just.. isnt working?
Aug 18 02:31:14 <Rick-home> max_  please pastebin the output of the last try
Aug 18 02:31:15 <Decimation> sticks at the updating screen?
Aug 18 02:31:19 <rwhitby> Decimation: read the channel backlog please
Aug 18 02:31:54 <rwhitby> starting 1 hour ago
Aug 18 02:31:58 <max_> http://pastebin.com/m5e32f2f7
Aug 18 02:32:41 <rwhitby> max_: ok, does "/sbin/initctl start org.webosinternals.ipkgservice" work now?
Aug 18 02:33:17 <max_> i'll check in a second, phones restarting
Aug 18 02:36:13 <Decimation> everytime i restart my phone, i have to go into putty and run this to get the preware service started: luna-send -n 1 palm://org.webosinternals.ipkgservice/list {}
Aug 18 02:37:39 <rwhitby> Decimation: do you have an /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice file ?
Aug 18 02:38:13 <Decimation> nope :/
Aug 18 02:38:48 <rwhitby> Decimation: you need to run the postinst on a writeable filesystem
Aug 18 02:39:11 <max_> rwhitby: that last thing you told me to run returns: initctl: (00313/119769287) Unknown job: org.webosinternals.ipkgservice
Aug 18 02:39:37 <Decimation> sh /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst ?
Aug 18 02:39:40 <rwhitby> max_: "ls -l /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice" ?
Aug 18 02:39:50 <rwhitby> Decimation: yep, on a writeable rootfs
Aug 18 02:40:51 <Decimation> for some reason i dont have the /var/etc/ipkg/webos-internals.conf file?
Aug 18 02:41:33 <Decimation> can anyone tell me whats supposed to be in that file so i can just make it?
Aug 18 02:42:03 <max_> rwhitby: when i type that in it just returns >
Aug 18 02:43:56 <Decimation> nvm, got it
Aug 18 02:44:16 <Decimation> rwhitby: okay, i ran the postinst... now is there anything else i should do?
Aug 18 02:45:12 <atlanta_> who manages preware?
Aug 18 02:45:37 <rwhitby> atlanta_: the app or the feeds?
Aug 18 02:45:43 <atlanta_> the app
Aug 18 02:46:04 <rwhitby> atlanta_: the devs in this channel
Aug 18 02:46:14 <rwhitby> (it's open source and open development)
Aug 18 02:46:22 <atlanta_> oh ok so i can git it and update it and stuff
Aug 18 02:46:24 <atlanta_> ok cool cool
Aug 18 02:46:42 * oil gives look of "dont fuck it up"
Aug 18 02:46:43 <oil> xD
Aug 18 02:46:44 <atlanta_> u have the feed link it uses
Aug 18 02:46:46 <rwhitby> atlanta_: oils is the primary app developer at the moment
Aug 18 02:46:57 <atlanta_> oil:  ok thats what i was asking sorry
Aug 18 02:47:09 <atlanta_> oil: hey oil i wont lol just gonna improve add screen shot etc
Aug 18 02:47:22 <atlanta_> unless you had something already in the works
Aug 18 02:47:29 <oil> there is none of that
Aug 18 02:47:33 <oil> or i would have already implemented it
Aug 18 02:47:54 <destinal> issue is no metadata at the moment, basically?
Aug 18 02:47:55 <rwhitby> atlanta_: open development means that stuff like that is discussed and agreed here :-)
Aug 18 02:48:13 <oil> yeah
Aug 18 02:48:15 <destinal> atlanta_: you can always download it and make whatever changes you want to your own copy
Aug 18 02:48:20 <atlanta_> oil: where does filecoaster pull them from
Aug 18 02:48:20 <atlanta_> ?
Aug 18 02:48:33 <oil> special prepritary feed
Aug 18 02:48:35 <destinal> but before it becomes part of the mainline project it has to be acceptable to others too :)
Aug 18 02:48:35 <rwhitby> atlanta_: from a proprietary xml feed that is not available to other apps
Aug 18 02:48:38 <atlanta_> destinal: understood then let oil see if he likes it
Aug 18 02:48:56 <atlanta_> rwhitby: oh ok gotcha
Aug 18 02:49:13 <atlanta_> don't think our friends at precentral would share
Aug 18 02:49:14 <Decimation> rwhitby: i did what you told me
Aug 18 02:49:14 <atlanta_> ?
Aug 18 02:49:22 <oil> precentral apps in the feed wont be getting anything past whats tehre
Aug 18 02:49:23 <Decimation> but i just restarted my phone, and the service didnt start.
Aug 18 02:49:32 <oil> preware feeds will be getting more metadata once the site is complete
Aug 18 02:49:45 <destinal> well we could use their xml feed but they might change it and a moving target is bad
Aug 18 02:49:51 <atlanta_> destinal: aww man i love the phone with out that damn rectile thing
Aug 18 02:50:08 <destinal> reticle I think
Aug 18 02:50:17 <atlanta_> oh ok what is the link to the preware
Aug 18 02:50:26 <atlanta_> reticle there u go
Aug 18 02:50:38 <destinal> atlanta_: does it feel faster without it?
Aug 18 02:50:57 <atlanta_> personally i believe so or maybe its just my mind knowing its not there anymore
Aug 18 02:51:22 <atlanta_> but i can tell a difference in the dailer app where it was most noticable
Aug 18 02:51:37 <rwhitby> precentral are sharing lots.  without them agreeing to share what they do already preware would have less than a tenth of the apps it has today
Aug 18 02:51:40 <rwhitby> it's now up to the users to get behind Preware and politely request that all app repositories share all the metadata that they gather from users
Aug 18 02:52:08 <oil> once the site is done
Aug 18 02:52:17 <oil> i plan to move my apps there and remove them from precentral
Aug 18 02:52:27 <rwhitby> destinal: we don't have permission to use the proprietary precentral xml feed that fileCoaster uses.
Aug 18 02:53:04 <destinal> rwhitby: ok, but technically it's not copyrightable, there's no reason we couldn't
Aug 18 02:53:23 <destinal> if it's just to be nice, ok, sure
Aug 18 02:53:24 <rwhitby> destinal: actually, the format that they use is copyrightable
Aug 18 02:53:38 <rwhitby> just like a telephone book is copyright
Aug 18 02:53:49 * atlanta_ took off the on screen keyboard was getting annoying 
Aug 18 02:53:52 <destinal> I'll disagree, but ok
Aug 18 02:54:05 <destinal> at any rate it's publicly available
Aug 18 02:54:14 <destinal> no license is required to consume it from the internet
Aug 18 02:54:17 <rwhitby> destinal: they've already told me it will be on https soon
Aug 18 02:54:44 <rwhitby> they are very specific about having an open feed, and a proprietary feed.
Aug 18 02:55:04 <rwhitby> and you shouldn't expect anything else from a corporation that needs to make money from eyeballs on advertising banners
Aug 18 02:55:41 <oil> so filecoaster is going to have ads?
Aug 18 02:55:44 <destinal> ok but XML or not it's a database
Aug 18 02:55:48 <destinal> it's not an expressive work
Aug 18 02:55:53 <destinal> no copyright
Aug 18 02:55:54 <rwhitby> as long as every app is in the open feed, and we can get to the ipkg file from that, then everything else is just cream that we will depend upon user influence to get added
Aug 18 02:56:11 <destinal> the screenshots, maybe
Aug 18 02:56:17 <rwhitby> destinal: the phone book has a copyright notice on it, right?
Aug 18 02:56:30 <oil> when was the last time you looked at a phone book?
Aug 18 02:56:44 <rwhitby> whether that notice stands up in court or not is another matter, but it is there.  the intent is clear.
Aug 18 02:56:45 * oil cant remember the last thing he looked up in one
Aug 18 02:56:50 <destinal> rwhitby: there are specific rulings in US case law, databases aren't copyright
Aug 18 02:57:12 <rwhitby> destinal: the information in the database is not copyrightable, but the expression format is.
Aug 18 02:57:36 <rwhitby> so you are right that we could probably legally take the information out of their xml file
Aug 18 02:57:39 <destinal> yes but downloading something made available to use it isn't copying it
Aug 18 02:57:47 <destinal> and sure you could read it and rewrite it
Aug 18 02:57:50 <oil> though
Aug 18 02:57:55 <oil> once the site is launched
Aug 18 02:57:56 <rwhitby> it's not made available for us to use.  it is not a public resource
Aug 18 02:58:03 <oil> nothing is stoping developers from posting in both places
Aug 18 02:58:17 <rwhitby> and it will be on protected https as soon as they work out how to do that, just like Palm's is.
Aug 18 02:58:19 <oil> so we would still get more data for them
Aug 18 02:58:20 <destinal> if that were the case you wouldn't be able to use api's without authorization
Aug 18 02:58:21 <Decimation> oil: that just makes it harder to maintain for developers.
Aug 18 02:58:23 <destinal> it's ridiculous
Aug 18 02:58:44 <oil> Decimation: ok?
Aug 18 02:58:54 <rwhitby> destinal: depends if it's a proprietary api or a public api
Aug 18 02:59:09 <destinal> we can agree to disagree, then. :)
Aug 18 02:59:17 <rwhitby> sure :-)
Aug 18 02:59:37 <rwhitby> either way, the intent of PreCentral is clear, and we are not going to go black-hat to get around it.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 18 02:59:56 2009