**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 25 02:59:56 2009
Aug 25 03:20:43 <Eguy> fail :( updater app still no workie
Aug 25 03:22:03 <rwhitby> Eguy: what's not working?
Aug 25 03:22:11 <Eguy> the update app
Aug 25 03:22:26 <Eguy> just says "Unable to connect"
Aug 25 03:22:36 <Eguy> I have tried it on wifi and 3G/1X
Aug 25 03:22:48 <Eguy> it has been like that since I updated to 1.1
Aug 25 03:31:56 <Eguy> crap! bad luck after bad luck
Aug 25 03:32:02 <Eguy> novaterm won't work now
Aug 25 03:32:11 <Eguy> I am seriously gonna smash my Pre tonight lol
Aug 25 03:32:58 <oil> be sure to film it
Aug 25 03:33:03 <JackieRipper> Ikyo: are you thinking od a new app, or patching the existing apps?
Aug 25 03:33:09 <rwhitby> Eguy: send it to me instead. I'll promise to smash it once I'm done with it ...
Aug 25 03:33:34 <rwhitby> Eguy: I'll pay the postage :-)
Aug 25 03:33:40 <oil> lol
Aug 25 03:34:59 <Eguy> hahha
Aug 25 03:36:47 <Eguy> dev mode on
Aug 25 03:36:50 <Eguy> rebooted
Aug 25 03:36:53 <Eguy> novaterm
Aug 25 03:36:56 <Eguy> unable to find device
Aug 25 03:36:59 <Eguy> argh!!!!
Aug 25 03:37:04 <Eguy> rm -rf pre
Aug 25 03:38:00 <Templarian> Is it in charge mode?
Aug 25 03:39:31 <Eguy> yeah
Aug 25 03:39:36 <Eguy> well I didn't hit anything
Aug 25 03:44:04 <Ikyo> I don't know enough js to modify the notification file.  I sent an email to the original creator of the old patch, but haven't heard back from him.
Aug 25 03:44:25 <Eguy> ruh roh bad weather in florida
Aug 25 03:50:34 * Decimation is sad to see no recent progress on the video camera :/
Aug 25 03:51:12 <rwhitby> Decimation: do you have contact details for cpcrook?  I'm trying to get in touch with him about that.
Aug 25 03:51:26 <Decimation> rwhitby: no, sorry.
Aug 25 03:56:09 <Eguy> what is the short konami code?
Aug 25 03:58:29 <Templarian> the date.
Aug 25 03:58:51 <Eguy> which date was it though
Aug 25 03:58:59 * Templarian finds it easier to remember the konami code... so not sure.
Aug 25 03:59:04 <Eguy> webos2009xx08 IIRC
Aug 25 04:00:09 <Rick_work> 20090606
Aug 25 04:00:16 <Eguy> aha!
Aug 25 04:00:18 <Rick_work> the releasedate
Aug 25 04:00:21 <Eguy> rick to the rescure
Aug 25 04:00:27 <Eguy> thanks buddy
Aug 25 04:00:52 <Eguy> great
Aug 25 04:00:55 <Eguy> still didn't work
Aug 25 04:01:03 <Rick_work> then use the long one
Aug 25 04:01:06 <Eguy> first time I am having trouble rooting it
Aug 25 04:01:14 <Eguy> no, no the code worked
Aug 25 04:01:18 <Rick_work> upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart
Aug 25 04:01:22 <Eguy> I just can't novaterm in
Aug 25 04:01:27 <Eguy> dev mode is on
Aug 25 04:01:38 <Eguy> I'll try on a windows machine
Aug 25 04:02:22 <Eguy> heh
Aug 25 04:02:27 <Eguy> novaproxy worked
Aug 25 04:06:05 <Eguy> let the patching commence
Aug 25 04:06:17 <Eguy> even though what I used webos dr for did not fix the problem
Aug 25 04:29:27 <Eguy> "this.orientationString === "RocknRollHax" hahahahahah
Aug 25 05:09:40 <destinal> heh
Aug 25 05:09:55 <destinal> late.. good night all
Aug 25 05:23:51 <veritas_> Does anyone know when the patch part of PreWare will be available?
Aug 25 05:34:16 <michael_> hello
Aug 25 05:38:01 <rwhitby> veritas_: unknown - getting postinst working is a prerequisite.
Aug 25 05:38:46 <veritas_> rwhitby: okay, thanks for the info
Aug 25 05:39:01 <rwhitby> veritas_: so it will be post-1.0.0
Aug 25 05:41:20 <msbullock> is there a way for me to create a private patch that does not get linked to gitorious.org?
Aug 25 05:42:10 <veritas_> rwhitby:  i'll be keeping an eye out for it
Aug 25 05:42:32 <rwhitby> msbullock: sure, just don't git push it
Aug 25 05:44:42 <msbullock> aaahhh. So if I follow the steps for creating a patch and use the Global Search Addon, I will be able to use 'pop' to remove it?
Aug 25 05:48:32 <rwhitby> msbullock: yep - have you read the two quilt documents at the top of the Applying_Patches page?
Aug 25 05:49:31 <Decimation> rwhitby: so its cpcrook who is doing all the video stuff?
Aug 25 05:49:31 <Decimation> veritas_: nope, no one does.
Aug 25 05:50:13 <rwhitby> Decimation: he's the one who wrote the wiki pages
Aug 25 05:51:16 <msbullock> no, I must have looked at that page at least a dozen times in the last week and I skipped right over that.
Aug 25 05:51:49 <msbullock> I need to have a read through that and see what else I can find. Thanks rwhitby
Aug 25 05:52:19 <rwhitby> msbullock: the quilt stuff and the git stuff is quite separate - you can use one without the other.
Aug 25 05:53:10 <rwhitby> Does anyone know if we have a list of novacom commands on the wiki?
Aug 25 05:58:19 <Decimation> rwhitby: whoever made the preware icon made it look super-purty :P
Aug 25 05:58:40 <rwhitby> I believe that was Templarian
Aug 25 05:59:34 <Decimation> rwhitby: also, the download size property listed when you choose an app is totally messed up.
Aug 25 05:59:34 <Decimation> either that or my phone just downloaded a file tha is "1306.77mb" large in a second.
Aug 25 06:01:22 <rwhitby> does the following look right:
Aug 25 06:01:24 <rwhitby> 		formatSize = (Math.round((size / 1024) * 100) / 100);
Aug 25 06:01:24 <rwhitby> 		toReturn = formatSize + ' KB';
Aug 25 06:02:07 <rwhitby> ah, I see the bug.
Aug 25 06:02:13 <rwhitby> (a later line)
Aug 25 06:02:16 <rwhitby> oil: ping
Aug 25 06:04:08 <rwhitby> Decimation: which app?
Aug 25 06:21:59 <rwhitby> Decimation: Fixed in 0.6.6
Aug 25 06:32:26 <Decimation> rwhitby: ive noticed it on a few but polor bear bowling...
Aug 25 06:32:36 <rwhitby> Decimation: update and try now
Aug 25 06:33:32 <rwhitby> Decimation: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/preware.git;a=blobdiff;f=app/assistants/app-view-assistant.js;h=30f9896ffcc3d24a138088a5f506ec3b0bb5aa2b;hp=e5e014b15177d9a39bbcf8ea1cc61f5480232635;hb=50b422d70525f39c9006a1324ac571cf331af61e;hpb=ef8eacd4eb24ac160721ff270c623bf750602f79
Aug 25 06:47:41 <Eguy> what the heck does this mean  Configuring org.webosinternals.termplugin (offline root mode: not running org.webosinternals.termplugin.postinst)
Aug 25 06:50:06 <rwhitby> Eguy: check the installation instructions for terminal.  you need to run the postinst script manually unless you are using webos quick install to install it
Aug 25 06:50:14 <rwhitby> (or the future preware 1.0.0)
Aug 25 06:50:27 <Eguy> I started from step one
Aug 25 06:50:33 <Eguy> it's doing it for every ipk
Aug 25 06:50:38 <Eguy> not just terminal
Aug 25 06:50:51 <rwhitby> it'll do it for any ipkg which has a postinst script
Aug 25 06:51:11 <rwhitby> since -o /var causes the script not to be run
Aug 25 06:51:17 <Eguy> oh
Aug 25 06:52:47 <Eguy> so installing com.pregame.prelease.ipk  should be without -o /var
Aug 25 06:52:48 <Dogy> Hi, Can u help me plz?
Aug 25 06:53:23 <Dogy> I'm just creating a software which I want to create an installation pack to it?
Aug 25 06:53:23 <Dogy> My software creates and adds file into the Palm Pre folders..
Aug 25 06:53:33 <Dogy> How to do that?
Aug 25 06:56:32 <rwhitby> Eguy: no
Aug 25 06:56:57 <rwhitby> you should always use -o /var, and then run the postinst (either manually, or via the program you use to install the ipkg)
Aug 25 06:57:21 <rwhitby> Dogy: where does it put the files?
Aug 25 06:58:00 <rwhitby> Eguy: is that the prelease service that has the runCmd method, or the one that Jason modified for the flashlight app to remove that method?
Aug 25 06:58:58 <oc80z> whats good
Aug 25 06:59:29 <Dogy> resources...
Aug 25 06:59:35 <Dogy> amm..
Aug 25 06:59:40 <Dogy> usr/palm/
Aug 25 07:00:09 <Eguy> I am doing it old school via terminal
Aug 25 07:00:20 <Eguy> I got one ipk
Aug 25 07:00:27 <Eguy> and it does not like running the post
Aug 25 07:00:53 <Dogy> i just created an additional language support for the PalmPre and I wonna make an installation pack to it..
Aug 25 07:01:39 <Dogy> add new interface in my language,
Aug 25 07:01:51 <Dogy> So how should I be able to do that?
Aug 25 07:03:44 <Dogy> rwhitby?
Aug 25 07:04:13 <rwhitby> oc80z: the new preware icon
Aug 25 07:04:40 <rwhitby> Eguy: run the postinst manually: sh /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/<package>.postinst
Aug 25 07:05:28 <rwhitby> Dogy: if you want to create a package that installs stuff under /usr/palm (rather than /var/usr/palm), you'll need a postinst script which takes the files that ipkg -o /var will unload under /var somewhere, and move them to the final location
Aug 25 07:05:56 <Dogy> I'm using the emulator right now,
Aug 25 07:06:09 <Dogy> So all the files are in usr/palm..
Aug 25 07:06:26 <Decimation> rwhitby: nice.
Aug 25 07:06:41 <Dogy> are the files in the device sites in the same place?
Aug 25 07:06:46 <Dogy> or in other place?
Aug 25 07:07:51 <rwhitby> Dogy: I'm assuming english is not your first language (and you can speak english much better than I can speak your language), but I don't understand your question.  what do you mean by "device sites" ?
Aug 25 07:08:10 <rwhitby> Decimation: confirmed fixed?
Aug 25 07:08:22 <Dogy> means device files location
Aug 25 07:08:31 <Dogy> is it the same as in the emulator?
Aug 25 07:09:14 <Dogy> I dont have to "Crack" it to get access to the root folder for each device I'll installed the Pack, dont I?
Aug 25 07:14:45 <Decimation> kk, time to update.
Aug 25 07:15:25 <Dogy> rwhitby?
Aug 25 07:15:58 <Dogy> Can I msg u?
Aug 25 07:16:02 <rwhitby> Dogy: the files should be in the same place on the device as they are on the emulator
Aug 25 07:16:23 <Dogy> Can I msg u?
Aug 25 07:16:24 <rwhitby> Dogy: just talk in here - I'm doing other stuff at the same time
Aug 25 07:16:31 <Dogy> Ok.
Aug 25 07:16:43 <Decimation> rwhitby: nice, fixed.
Aug 25 07:16:45 <Dogy> So how to Create the ipkg for it?
Aug 25 07:16:53 <Eguy> woohoo preware
Aug 25 07:16:58 <Eguy> I like it
Aug 25 07:17:30 <rwhitby> Dogy: how good are you at following makefiles?
Aug 25 07:17:46 <Dogy> not so much
Aug 25 07:18:27 <Dogy> why?
Aug 25 07:18:37 <rwhitby> Dogy: do you know anything about ipkg files in general?  Have you read the google hits for the ipkg format?
Aug 25 07:19:08 <rwhitby> Dogy: at the moment, the only doco for how to create ipkgs that can install files under /usr/palm is in the form of Makefile fragments and python scripts.
Aug 25 07:19:13 <Dogy> yes I read about it
Aug 25 07:19:38 <Dogy> but I checked
Aug 25 07:19:49 <Dogy> there is nothing under var/usr/palm
Aug 25 07:20:05 <Dogy> all the files are under usr/pa
Aug 25 07:20:23 <Dogy> so.
Aug 25 07:20:31 <rwhitby> Dogy: yes, the files need to end up under /usr/palm, but you cannot get them there directly.
Aug 25 07:20:39 <Dogy> Where I should read about it
Aug 25 07:20:55 <rwhitby> you have to install an ipkg (which puts the files under /var/....) then you need to have a postinst script which moves the files from /var/... to /usr/palm/....
Aug 25 07:21:15 <rwhitby> Dogy: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=tree
Aug 25 07:21:25 <Dogy> Ok,
Aug 25 07:21:38 <Dogy> and how to create the installation itselft?
Aug 25 07:22:14 <Dogy> The Icon for the program and the installation screen for it?
Aug 25 07:22:19 <rwhitby> look in http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=services/ipkgservice/Makefile;h=fd841a0e6b3fe84374f1f75036c568d659775a3f;hb=HEAD
Aug 25 07:22:55 <Dogy> the first link
Aug 25 07:23:02 <Dogy> what's all those folders?
Aug 25 07:24:08 <Dogy> I dont understand some of those files inside the makefile
Aug 25 07:24:10 <rwhitby> Dogy: that's the system which builds all the org.webosinternals.* apps
Aug 25 07:25:41 <Dogy> Ok,
Aug 25 07:26:02 <Dogy> Where I can learn more about it?
Aug 25 07:26:41 <rwhitby> Dogy: you'll have to follow the logic in those files - there is no other doco.  This is bleeding edge stuff.
Aug 25 07:27:43 <Dogy> ok..
Aug 25 07:27:58 <Dogy> where I can find more examples..
Aug 25 07:30:50 <Dogy> rwhitby?
Aug 25 07:31:03 <rwhitby> Dogy: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=tree
Aug 25 07:31:10 <Dogy> So All I should put in the makefiles code
Aug 25 07:31:30 <Dogy> is the creations of the folders I need and the copy of files to there?
Aug 25 07:31:42 <Dogy> or first I need to copy all files tu var/usr/palm
Aug 25 07:31:43 <rwhitby> you need to do that in the postinst script
Aug 25 07:31:57 <Dogy> and that's it?
Aug 25 07:32:09 <Dogy> It's ready for use?
Aug 25 07:32:46 <rwhitby> Dogy: that's the high-level concepts yes.  There's a lot more detail to it though.
Aug 25 07:33:11 <Dogy> like what?
Aug 25 07:33:35 <Dogy> is ther program to write those scripts? and check them?
Aug 25 07:33:44 <rwhitby> all the stuff that is written in those makefiles and the ipkg-build python script
Aug 25 07:33:48 <Dogy> how to combine those scripts into the makefile?
Aug 25 07:33:48 <rwhitby> no there is not
Aug 25 07:33:53 <rwhitby> manually
Aug 25 07:34:08 <Dogy> So other than those scripts..
Aug 25 07:34:14 <rwhitby> there is nothing
Aug 25 07:34:25 <Dogy> what should be added into the Makefiles?
Aug 25 07:34:41 <rwhitby> Dogy: that is what you need to work out
Aug 25 07:35:17 <Dogy> ok.
Aug 25 07:35:18 <rwhitby> I can't give you a specific set of instructions, you have to climb the learning curve yourself first by researching the examples.
Aug 25 07:35:30 <Dogy> And how to run those scripts form the makefiles?
Aug 25 07:36:11 <Dogy> after making the makefiles how to make it an installation file?
Aug 25 07:36:53 <Dogy> and pack all the needed file for this installations...
Aug 25 07:37:01 <Dogy> and start the installation?
Aug 25 07:39:20 <Dogy> ?
Aug 25 07:42:00 <rwhitby> Dogy: the makefiles take the original source code, and create an ipkg file (you need to research yourself about ipkg files and postinst scripts).  then you use an advanced homebrew installer like webos quick install to install that ipkg file
Aug 25 07:42:42 <Dogy> So using the homebrew I install the ipkg file?
Aug 25 07:42:51 <Dogy> or I create an installer to it?
Aug 25 07:43:43 <Decimation> rwhitby: when i go into preware, then select available applications, then select a category
Aug 25 07:43:48 <Decimation> the drop down at the top right doesnt work
Aug 25 07:44:12 <Decimation> be back in 10
Aug 25 07:44:43 <rwhitby> Decimation: yep, looks like a regression there.
Aug 25 07:45:35 <Dogy> rwhitby?
Aug 25 07:46:04 <rwhitby> Dogy: please read up about installing homebrew applications on the web before asking these questions
Aug 25 07:48:02 <Dogy> just tell me that..
Aug 25 07:48:03 <Dogy> ok?
Aug 25 07:48:15 <Dogy> i'll stop asking stupid questions
Aug 25 07:48:16 <Dogy> ok?
Aug 25 07:48:32 <rwhitby> no, sorry, not ok.  You need to do the homework yourself.
Aug 25 07:49:04 <rwhitby> cause there are about 50 other questions after that which will require that baseline knowledge that you will gain by doing the research.
Aug 25 07:49:39 <rwhitby> you can't learn brain surgery just by asking a brain surgeon some questions ...
Aug 25 07:50:10 * rwhitby realises that brain surgery is much harder than ipkg postinst scripts
Aug 25 07:53:24 <Dogy> rwhitby?
Aug 25 07:54:01 <Dogy> :-)
Aug 25 07:54:02 <Dogy> Ok.
Aug 25 07:54:05 <Dogy> I'll do that.
Aug 25 07:55:18 <rwhitby> Dogy: when you've learn about ipkgs, and can understand how those makefiles build them, and have unpacked one of the org.webosinternals.* services to see what's inside one, feel free to come back and we can talk.
Aug 25 08:03:32 <Decimation> rwhitby: how do you do polynomial division? :D
Aug 25 08:03:46 <Decimation> but i want you to teach me in a sentence please :P
Aug 25 08:03:59 <rwhitby> Decimation: don't be mean
Aug 25 08:04:23 <Decimation> rwhitby: whats the fun in it if you cant mess around :)
Aug 25 08:05:29 <rwhitby> Decimation: the trouble is that messing around doesn't cross the language barrier easily.  Being someone that travels to foreign countries a bit, I'm aware of how hard it is to ask sensible questions in another language.
Aug 25 08:06:10 <Decimation> ah, i'd imagine not.
Aug 25 08:06:14 <rwhitby> I don't know what Dogy's first language is, but I'll bet I know fewer than 10 words in it, whatever it is :-)
Aug 25 08:06:44 <rwhitby> so he's already way ahead of me there, and I respect that in itself.
Aug 25 08:07:01 <rwhitby> Dogy: what is your native language?
Aug 25 08:07:13 <Dogy> hebrew
Aug 25 08:07:29 <rwhitby> there you go.  I know less than 1 word in hebrew.
Aug 25 08:07:48 <Dogy> ha ha
Aug 25 08:08:18 <rwhitby> hmm - maybe "shalom" makes 1?
Aug 25 08:08:34 <Dogy> So I read homebrew it's only for installation ipkg
Aug 25 08:08:55 <Dogy> what about making an installation for it? knows what I mean?
Aug 25 08:09:11 <rwhitby> "L'Chayim" makes 2 words :-)
Aug 25 08:09:31 <Dogy> ?
Aug 25 08:09:42 <rwhitby> Dogy: once you've correctly made an ipkg with a postinst file, then you can use WebOS Quick Install to install it.
Aug 25 08:10:58 * rwhitby goes back to researching how to use eclipse for webos app and service development
Aug 25 08:12:20 <Decimation> rwhitby: how long do you think it'll be till palm steps it up with video recording?
Aug 25 08:12:26 <Decimation> i doubt it will even happen this year.
Aug 25 08:12:40 <rwhitby> Decimation: storage is the problem.  8GB is pretty small for video.
Aug 25 08:13:08 <Decimation> ive seen phones with less.
Aug 25 08:13:22 <rwhitby> hmm - I wonder if we could stream the captured video out over ssh port forwarding ...
Aug 25 08:13:38 <Decimation> rwhitby: explore :D
Aug 25 08:13:51 <rwhitby> Decimation: bit hard - the emulator doesn't do camera
Aug 25 08:14:01 <Decimation> YOU  NEED A PRE
Aug 25 08:14:07 <rwhitby> and I'm still waiting for someone to donate me a pre ;-)
Aug 25 08:14:28 <Decimation> sadly i have no money :(
Aug 25 08:17:33 <rwhitby> Decimation: I can't see anything obvious regarding the category popup regression - best to ask oil nicely when he wakes up.
Aug 25 08:18:06 <Decimation> rwhitby: will do, although im sure he's sick of all the problems i've pointed out to him :P
Aug 25 08:18:59 * rwhitby spent three hours just to work out how to fix http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=services/ipkgservice.git;a=blobdiff;f=org/webosinternals/ipkgservice/IPKGService.java;h=f977454a54a7fd9bd4e21f2c2021e142c7d680c5;hp=42bb5ba72d52a3f981cbda4c4cefa7de35e20601;hb=a758a0955cae09b3c2d9bd64cb603ee1de9b601b;hpb=19f1e7190b713789e5b46c94c4c856230621d219
Aug 25 08:19:48 <rwhitby> of course that included setting up eclipse for webos development etc ...
Aug 25 08:20:08 <rwhitby> (Templarian will kill me if he sees that I'm using Eclipse)
Aug 25 08:24:58 <Decimation> rwhitby: your secrets safe with me :P
Aug 25 08:25:05 <Decimation> (but the IRC logs don't lie :D)
Aug 25 08:27:02 * rwhitby bbl
Aug 25 08:40:10 * Decimation is bored out of his mind.
Aug 25 09:56:23 <Dogy> Is the WebOS qucik install comes with the Phone?
Aug 25 11:57:16 <rwhitby> ~google "webos quick install"
Aug 25 12:48:56 <gkatsev> yay, infobot is back
Aug 25 14:19:41 <nebula> hrm, where's that page that steps through porting an existing javascript app
Aug 25 14:20:20 <nebula> n/m got it
Aug 25 14:49:41 <nebula> ok...working on porting jsnes to the pre
Aug 25 14:49:56 <nebula> if anyone decides to jump on that, let me know and i'll pass along what i've done
Aug 25 15:01:16 <nebula> Dogy: you can get the quick install application through precentral
Aug 25 15:02:22 <nebula> Dogy: http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/194832-webos-quick-install.html
Aug 25 15:02:54 <nebula> there are prerequisites, make sure to meet them
Aug 25 15:04:27 <Templarian> nebula: don't port the jsnes theres no point to it.
Aug 25 16:28:06 <Zuchmir2> geist: ping
Aug 25 16:40:21 <destinal_zzz> nebula: jsnes = java?  that sounds like a bad idea
Aug 25 16:42:01 <destinal> ~hi
Aug 25 16:42:02 <infobot> hello, destinal
Aug 25 16:42:13 <destinal> ~botsnack
Aug 25 16:42:13 <infobot> thanks, destinal
Aug 25 16:43:56 <Templarian> destinal: no "JS" +"NES"
Aug 25 16:44:16 <geist> Zuchmir2: pong
Aug 25 16:44:31 <jettero> you guys aware of anyone getting powertop to work on castle? (http://www.lesswatts.org/)
Aug 25 16:44:40 <destinal> Templarian: ah, google pointed to "j" "snes"
Aug 25 16:45:01 <destinal> regardless an NES in javascript is frightening
Aug 25 16:45:05 <Templarian> destinal: yea i realised that after i had said it.
Aug 25 16:45:13 <Zuchmir2> geist: will palm be accepting apps to the store w/plugins?
Aug 25 16:45:16 <Templarian> destinal: it's also very cpu entensive.
Aug 25 16:45:41 <geist> Zuchmir2: no idea
Aug 25 16:45:50 <Templarian> One of those things that should be written completely seperate with a mojo overlay.
Aug 25 16:45:57 <destinal> Zuchmir2: I doubt they will until they have an official binary sdk
Aug 25 16:46:00 <Zuchmir2> who can i contact for that?
Aug 25 16:46:17 <destinal> Zuchmir2: I'd ask chuq
Aug 25 16:46:23 <Zuchmir2> is binary SDK on the horizon?
Aug 25 16:46:44 <Templarian> Definately, but there will probably be a standard that must be followed.
Aug 25 16:47:00 <destinal> Zuchmir2: they've announced no plans, unofficial word is it'll be a long way off
Aug 25 16:47:11 <Templarian> (i give it a year)
Aug 25 16:47:35 <Zuchmir2> so you think untill then the only way will be homebrew
Aug 25 16:48:13 <Templarian> Zuchmir2: by then homebrew could surpass Palm.... hehe.
Aug 25 16:48:16 <destinal> Zuchmir2: well, the methods we've developed / are developing, yeah
Aug 25 16:48:54 <Zuchmir2> ok, will have to work w/that, thanks
Aug 25 16:50:51 <msbullock> ok, so i'm trying to follow the "Patch Browser Global Search Addons" and make my own patch, how can I copy my images from my Desktop (ubuntu) to the Pre, can I do it from SSH?
Aug 25 16:51:06 <gkatsev> msbullock: scp
Aug 25 16:53:38 <msbullock> thanks gkatserv!
Aug 25 16:54:08 <phil_bw> hey all, I'm new here.  long time Palm developer just curious of the status of a native IRC client for the Pre
Aug 25 16:55:11 <en0x> i dont even know if somebody is working on it phil_bw
Aug 25 16:55:22 <xalbo> Last I heard, thoughts were being tossed around, but no one had committed to making one.  The best idea seemed to be to have some form of server-side proxy that the Pre would connect to.
Aug 25 16:55:53 <en0x> we should grab the code from mibbit
Aug 25 16:55:54 <en0x> ;D
Aug 25 16:56:21 <gkatsev> porting mibbit is probably the easiest course of action.
Aug 25 16:56:32 <gkatsev> though, gotta make it work with freenode
Aug 25 16:56:45 <en0x> it will mibbits ips are banned
Aug 25 16:56:49 <en0x> not the client itself
Aug 25 16:56:57 <gkatsev> ah, ok, makes sense
Aug 25 17:00:29 <phil_bw> I'm considering working on one, more of a loose port of my PalmOS IRC client but I don't want to if someone else is
Aug 25 17:00:57 <Templarian> For simple HTTP over IRC I believe java has classes to do this (not sure how but a guy I knew helped me write the backend for an irc bot in a day a few years back... smart bot wish I had the source).
Aug 25 17:01:19 <phil_bw> the problem appears that WebOS only uses Ajax for communications
Aug 25 17:01:30 <Templarian> phil_bw: that's not a really much of a problem.
Aug 25 17:01:41 <atlanta> ajax is pretty powerful actually
Aug 25 17:01:43 <phil_bw> web based clients need some sort of server backend and/or a java/flash gateway
Aug 25 17:01:57 <gkatsev> phil_bw: mibbit is 100% javascript
Aug 25 17:02:18 <Templarian> You will still need a dedicated server.
Aug 25 17:02:36 <phil_bw> I know amost *nothing* about WebOS development, that's why I'm poking around here
Aug 25 17:02:46 <Templarian> I don't think freenode minds multiple connections through 1 IP.
Aug 25 17:02:47 <atlanta> Templarian: and pretty sure you can get one on the low
Aug 25 17:02:54 <atlanta>  or rwhitby has connections for open source projects
Aug 25 17:03:16 <atlanta> darn anybody found which .db3 file text messages are in
Aug 25 17:03:16 <atlanta> ?
Aug 25 17:03:26 <gkatsev> phil_bw: get the webos book. its a great help
Aug 25 17:03:26 <Templarian> atlanta: the main one.
Aug 25 17:03:37 <atlanta> really i checked there once
Aug 25 17:03:42 <atlanta> ill have another look
Aug 25 17:03:47 <phil_bw> A direct Pre to IRC client without a gateway doesn't look possible though (without custom linux code)
Aug 25 17:03:55 <Templarian> oh then nvm might of saw something that looked like it.
Aug 25 17:04:09 <atlanta> Templarian:  PalmDatabase.db3?
Aug 25 17:04:35 <Templarian> (no I mean when I skimmed over the tables I might of just been mistaken it's been a while)
Aug 25 17:05:31 <atlanta> oh ok
Aug 25 17:06:07 <Templarian> They are not backed up so could just be in a regular db/other storage option.
Aug 25 17:06:32 <Templarian> Someone else was asking about this a while back wish I could remember who.
Aug 25 17:11:00 <atlanta> darnit
Aug 25 17:11:09 <atlanta> i want to make a backup solution of some sort
Aug 25 17:11:14 <phil_bw2> stupid connectionn....
Aug 25 17:12:10 <FreeTim> rsync ? I am thinking about just rsyncing parts of the OS
Aug 25 17:12:28 <atlanta> nall i was thinking about it
Aug 25 17:12:48 <atlanta> gonna swift through and see can i find something
Aug 25 17:12:56 <destinal> phil_bw2: yeah, we've considered either adding plugins to the libpurple that comes on the device, or adding another service entirely
Aug 25 17:13:01 <destinal> to allow for irc
Aug 25 17:14:54 <msbullock> can someone help me with my scp command, what am I doning wrong? from terminal : scp /Desktop/Image.png -p 222 USERNAME@IPOFPALMPRE:/usr/lib/luna/system/luna-applauncher/images/Image.png
Aug 25 17:16:36 <FreeTim> you need a "to"
Aug 25 17:16:45 <FreeTim> Like ending it with space then period for example to copy "to here"
Aug 25 17:16:47 <gkatsev> msbullock: you cant scp to /usr/lib
Aug 25 17:16:48 <phil_bw2> oh really?
Aug 25 17:17:01 <phil_bw2> I didn't know libpurple was on the device
Aug 25 17:17:04 <FreeTim> oh no, nevermind you have that in there. mybad
Aug 25 17:17:35 <gkatsev> msbullock: what error are you getting exactly?
Aug 25 17:18:08 <gkatsev> phil_bw: yep, thats how we are getting aim and gtalk, which is weird cuz they didnt include msn or yahoo or other jabbers
Aug 25 17:18:14 <msbullock> connection to host timed out, lost connection
Aug 25 17:18:39 <gkatsev> msbullock: is your pre going to sleep?
Aug 25 17:18:55 <msbullock> no, I have it plugged into the wall
Aug 25 17:19:09 <phil_bw> last I used libpurple for IRC was on Gaim (yes before Pidgin) and it was awful... any idea if it's been improved at all?
Aug 25 17:20:11 <destinal> phil_bw: I'm in pidgin right now, and I'm happy with it
Aug 25 17:20:12 <msbullock> @gkatserv do I need to ssh before I do the scp, or can I just scp from a new terminal?
Aug 25 17:20:20 <gkatsev> phil_bw: ive never liked it, but people use it, i guess its improved a lot.
Aug 25 17:20:34 <gkatsev> msbullock: nope, you just scp.
Aug 25 17:21:17 <gkatsev> msbullock: also, its scp -P 222 file user@castle:/path/
Aug 25 17:22:33 <phil_bw2> haven't IRCed from the Centro in ages... apparently I can't work my own software....
Aug 25 17:24:37 <msbullock> gkatserv: but the Pre isnt connected to my computer in dev mode, so wouldn't it be the pre ip address in place of castle?
Aug 25 17:26:15 <gkatsev> msbullock: yeah, it was just an example, make sure you capitalize the -P for the port in scp
Aug 25 17:26:21 <destinal> is anyone else finding their usb connection less than solid, like if you jiggle it slightly it disconnects and reconnects?
Aug 25 17:26:21 <gkatsev> ssh takes a lowercase p
Aug 25 17:27:53 <phil_bw> ok, gave the Centro a rest, nothing was working right anyway
Aug 25 17:29:44 <msbullock> gkatserv: getting there, now the error is Permission denied, what directory can I copy files to /usr?
Aug 25 17:30:10 <gkatsev> msbullock: /media/internal
Aug 25 17:30:21 <gkatsev> msbullock: also, no r in my username...
Aug 25 17:30:45 <msbullock> gkatsev: sorry.
Aug 25 17:30:57 <gkatsev> msbullock: s'okay
Aug 25 17:32:05 <msbullock> gkatsev: still getting Permission denied when using /media/internal
Aug 25 17:33:25 <msbullock> gkatsev: Its now prompting for password and it's thinking after that, then it says Permission denied
Aug 25 17:33:34 <gkatsev> msbullock: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Make_USB_Partition_Writable_via_SFTP
Aug 25 17:34:24 <gkatsev> msbullock: you have to edit uid=uid,gid=gid to your /etc/fstab for /media/internal
Aug 25 17:34:34 <gkatsev> then youll be able to scp stuff to it
Aug 25 17:34:51 <msbullock> ah....
Aug 25 17:38:13 <destinal> you guys and your non-root access
Aug 25 17:40:02 <Templarian> "accessing of the linux"
Aug 25 17:40:28 <Templarian> s/acccessing/non-accessing/
Aug 25 17:42:48 <gkatsev> hm.. why didnt infobot replace that?
Aug 25 17:43:30 <Templarian> three c's by accident
Aug 25 17:43:40 <gkatsev> ah, missed that
Aug 25 17:44:04 <Templarian> testing
Aug 25 17:44:13 <Templarian> s/test/work/
Aug 25 17:44:13 <infobot> Templarian meant: working
Aug 25 17:45:56 <FreeTim> I'm guessing the dash was seen as a delimiter
Aug 25 17:46:08 <FreeTim> might need \-
Aug 25 17:46:23 <FreeTim> oh, nevermind
Aug 25 17:52:12 <phil_bw> so I am sure you guys are annoyed be me after all my disconnects, but did anyone ever give a clear answer on if direct socket connections via a webos native app seem possible?
Aug 25 17:52:43 <atlanta> phil_bw: through plugins i believe since
Aug 25 17:52:50 <atlanta>  those can be written in C if im not mistaken
Aug 25 17:53:02 <atlanta> also there are java service u can create
Aug 25 17:53:10 <Templarian> Easily possible.
Aug 25 17:53:12 <atlanta> and to my knowlege java can do socket connects
Aug 25 17:53:19 <Templarian> (both can)
Aug 25 17:53:25 <atlanta> :-
Aug 25 17:53:27 <atlanta> :-)
Aug 25 17:53:29 <atlanta> i was on the money then
Aug 25 17:53:42 <phil_bw> I know javascript can't do direct sockets (other than Ajax), is there native java on the pre as well?
Aug 25 17:54:06 <Templarian> Yep, you would have to like atlanta said write a service.
Aug 25 17:54:29 <Templarian> (if you could make a general socket service it would be best though)
Aug 25 17:54:49 <phil_bw> would said service be installable via a regular installer or would it require various rooting around?
Aug 25 17:54:52 <atlanta> phil_bw: look into git where some of the other guys have made services
Aug 25 17:55:03 <atlanta> phil_bw: preware can install services
Aug 25 17:55:08 <atlanta> dunno about filecoaster
Aug 25 17:55:12 <phil_bw> ah
Aug 25 17:55:25 <phil_bw> again, all *very* new to this and I'm still at the considering whether or not to develop stage
Aug 25 17:55:32 <phil_bw> so forgive me if I ask incredibly stupid questions
Aug 25 17:55:46 <atlanta> phil_bw:  its fine im still at the learning phase
Aug 25 17:55:49 <atlanta> i dont mind helping
Aug 25 17:55:57 <atlanta> helps the community
Aug 25 17:56:19 <phil_bw> being that I have about 50 pounds of IRC client code just laying around I figure it would be a nice thing to write an IRC client for the Pre if it's A) not too much of a headache and B) an average user could install it
Aug 25 17:56:53 <Templarian> phil_bw: it can't be too hard others have done it pretty easily it seems.
Aug 25 17:57:15 <atlanta> yea like the terminal interface etc
Aug 25 17:57:57 <phil_bw> I think most of the homebrew apps that access data just use Ajax since it's far simpler, could be wrong though
Aug 25 17:58:30 <atlanta> phil_bw: yea for the basic stuff
Aug 25 17:58:39 <atlanta> any thing that needs lower level they write services for
Aug 25 17:58:49 <destinal> phil_bw: the Terminal app we've done uses a browser plugin
Aug 25 17:59:59 <phil_bw> destinal, does your Terminal app access remote servers as well as the built in linux?
Aug 25 18:00:07 <phil_bw> <-- dpesm
Aug 25 18:00:08 <phil_bw> er
Aug 25 18:00:12 <phil_bw> <-- doesn't own a pre yet
Aug 25 18:00:13 <destinal> phil_bw: it's a terminal, think xterm
Aug 25 18:00:27 <destinal> you can ssh out from the command line to other systems with the standard ssh binaries
Aug 25 18:00:38 <phil_bw> destinal, oh really... I thought it was just an interface to the built in command line
Aug 25 18:01:01 <phil_bw> destinal, I could see that but it's using the SSH binaries own socket stuff
Aug 25 18:01:22 <destinal> well, just about any terminal operates the same way, it hooks a VTY interface and then execs a binary, typically /bin/login
Aug 25 18:01:59 <phil_bw> destinal, right, so you're saying, though, that you use a browser plugin to access it at the lower level?
Aug 25 18:02:01 <destinal> so yeah it drops you into a shell and then you can just ssh someothersystem
Aug 25 18:03:01 <destinal> right, we went the direction of a c/c++  binary, which plugs into the browser via the NPAPI interface
Aug 25 18:03:20 <destinal> standard browser plugin mechanism, palm has a few extensions to it but it's pretty straightforward
Aug 25 18:03:39 <phil_bw> aha, didn't know you could do that
Aug 25 18:03:55 <atlanta> destinal: any other languages the browser plugins take?
Aug 25 18:04:19 <destinal> atlanta: it's just a binary in the .so (shared object) standard format
Aug 25 18:04:20 <phil_bw> so in essence a simple socket gateway could be written in c/c++ and fed into the browser via a plugin which could then be accessed by a webos app?
Aug 25 18:04:22 <destinal> ELF
Aug 25 18:04:38 <destinal> phil_bw: it could but I would probably do that as a service instead
Aug 25 18:05:00 <destinal> but I don't think you really want to do a socket gateway generally
Aug 25 18:05:03 <phil_bw> I didn't see anything on services when I was poking around the webos APIs...
Aug 25 18:05:14 <atlanta> phil_bw:  its not there lol
Aug 25 18:05:20 <destinal> well the client side of it is
Aug 25 18:05:28 <phil_bw> I see
Aug 25 18:05:29 <atlanta> yea true
Aug 25 18:05:31 <destinal> ie how to add talking to a service into your mojo apps
Aug 25 18:05:41 <phil_bw> yeah a general socket gateway could be extremely dangerous...
Aug 25 18:05:43 <destinal> but nothing on how to WRITE services is in the sdk
Aug 25 18:06:13 <destinal> basically I follow palm's lead on the way they did things which makes a lot of sense
Aug 25 18:06:26 <phil_bw> so I guess I will pose the question: If *you* were to write an app that needs direct socket access to a server like an IRC client, what route would you go?
Aug 25 18:06:29 <destinal> if anything can't be done in mojo, just create a service to perform the heavy lifting and call it
Aug 25 18:06:43 <atlanta> destinal: indeed. i'm going to learn it one of these days
Aug 25 18:06:46 <destinal> well you don't put the socket stuff in the client
Aug 25 18:07:04 <destinal> you put all the actual IRC communication in the service
Aug 25 18:07:10 <destinal> and then just call the service from the mojo app
Aug 25 18:07:19 <phil_bw> makes sense
Aug 25 18:07:39 <destinal> similar to what palm did with libpurple handling the instant messaging stuff
Aug 25 18:07:44 <phil_bw> but, of course, since there isn't documentation on writing services guys like you probably get bugged a lot
Aug 25 18:07:49 <destinal> the mojo app doesn't have to understand ports or protocols
Aug 25 18:08:03 <destinal> it just sends what message it wants to deliver to the service which deals with the details
Aug 25 18:08:23 <phil_bw> this really makes a lot of sense
Aug 25 18:08:56 <atlanta> destinal: im going to learn it soon. think a good write up might help most out
Aug 25 18:09:19 <phil_bw> so my guess is that this project would take shape quite quickly if I were to, say, team up with a service developer and provide the IRC protocol code
Aug 25 18:09:19 <destinal> yeah, I know our documentation isn't exactly very good at the moment, that would help a lot
Aug 25 18:10:06 <atlanta> destinal: cool ill hit you up when i get some time to learn it if thats fine
Aug 25 18:10:23 <phil_bw> being I'm not out to make a buck on this project I'd be willing to share any code I have with another developer willing to work on this
Aug 25 18:10:24 <destinal> phil_bw: talk to PuffTheMagic also, he's started working on an irc client also
Aug 25 18:10:33 <phil_bw> destinal, thanks
Aug 25 18:10:39 <destinal> phil_bw: yeah we're all about open source stuff here
Aug 25 18:10:55 <PuffTheMagic> phil_bw: yeah me and oil have some ideas going
Aug 25 18:10:57 <destinal> and free sharing of information, so if you are too, we'll be glad to collabarate
Aug 25 18:11:00 <PuffTheMagic> he was gonna do most of th emojo
Aug 25 18:11:02 <phil_bw> I tried to sell my IRC clients in the past and, well they all got cracked so I just made them freeware
Aug 25 18:11:05 <PuffTheMagic> and i was gonna get the service going
Aug 25 18:11:34 <phil_bw> well if you need someone piles of IRC protocol code just let me know
Aug 25 18:11:48 <phil_bw> I wrote ptpChat 1 & 2 and ChatWorks for PalmOS
Aug 25 18:12:54 <phil_bw> btw, if any of you have ever used my clients and got frustrated by some of the bugginess I apologize completely... PalmOS is a crap OS to write for...
Aug 25 18:14:12 <PuffTheMagic> phil_bw: depending on whether i use java or C to do the service i am either gonna use libpurple or Martyr
Aug 25 18:14:22 <PuffTheMagic> for the protocol stuff
Aug 25 18:14:46 <PuffTheMagic> and oil and i discussed using multiple stages for each channel
Aug 25 18:14:47 <phil_bw> yeah, we were talking about libpurple earlier
Aug 25 18:14:52 <PuffTheMagic> and one for pms
Aug 25 18:14:55 <destinal> yeah the nice thing about libpurple is the code is extremely well tested (and with purple we may be able to reuse palm's service or parts of it to save effort)
Aug 25 18:15:09 <PuffTheMagic> and have a toggle for nick view or channel view
Aug 25 18:15:11 <PuffTheMagic> etc.
Aug 25 18:15:19 <phil_bw> I'm just curious about how the IRC peices of libpurple have come along
Aug 25 18:15:34 <PuffTheMagic> phil_bw: its not existent
Aug 25 18:15:35 <destinal> phil_bw: I'm talking to you on it right now, it's really solid IMO
Aug 25 18:15:36 <phil_bw> as I said earlier the last time I used it for IRC chat was on Gaim before it was Pidgin and it was *awful*
Aug 25 18:15:43 <PuffTheMagic> i just started on getting a C service to compile
Aug 25 18:15:49 <PuffTheMagic> palm didnt give us the headers to do that
Aug 25 18:15:54 <PuffTheMagic> so we have to reverse engineer it
Aug 25 18:16:00 <phil_bw> yeah
Aug 25 18:16:10 <phil_bw> that's all a Palm developer is... a reverse engineer
Aug 25 18:16:15 <destinal> phil_bw: the services we have done so far are java
Aug 25 18:16:27 <destinal> and java services are easy since the classes you use are all on the device
Aug 25 18:16:30 <PuffTheMagic> except for my batteryadapter :D
Aug 25 18:16:38 <PuffTheMagic> which is in C :D
Aug 25 18:16:42 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: oh, you did that already?
Aug 25 18:16:48 <destinal> nice
Aug 25 18:16:54 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: parts are working
Aug 25 18:17:17 <PuffTheMagic> sending shit to mojo works
Aug 25 18:17:25 <destinal> is the code posted anywhere?
Aug 25 18:17:27 <PuffTheMagic> i havent done anything with setting info
Aug 25 18:17:34 <PuffTheMagic> or reading objects
Aug 25 18:17:37 <phil_bw> PuffTheMagic, so it sounds like you've got the IRC client pretty well under control so I'll leave it pretty well alone
Aug 25 18:17:40 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: it will be in a few hours
Aug 25 18:17:58 <PuffTheMagic> phil_bw: well im not against help
Aug 25 18:18:18 <PuffTheMagic> but C services need to work first if we want to use libpurple
Aug 25 18:18:37 <phil_bw> PuffTheMagic, I mean if there is anything I can help with I'll be more than willing
Aug 25 18:18:37 <PuffTheMagic> so i am making a small C service for people to see as an example
Aug 25 18:19:04 <PuffTheMagic> phil_bw: yeah if you sick around in this channel i will let you know once we start actually hacking on it so you can participate
Aug 25 18:19:21 <destinal> phil_bw: to learn more check out the wiki and our source code repositories
Aug 25 18:19:29 <destinal> there's tons of stuff out there
Aug 25 18:19:48 <atlanta> PuffTheMagic: what does messages app use to interface with libpurp?
Aug 25 18:19:58 <phil_bw> destinal, will do
Aug 25 18:20:22 <destinal> atlanta: libpurple-adapter is palm's service
Aug 25 18:20:26 <PuffTheMagic> atlanta: libpurpleadapter
Aug 25 18:20:42 <PuffTheMagic> but you need a reverse engineered lunaservice.h to build it
Aug 25 18:20:48 <PuffTheMagic> and a random json c lib
Aug 25 18:20:51 <destinal> atlanta: they make the source code available but it's not complete, it's lacking some lunaservices headers to compile, which is what puff is working on
Aug 25 18:20:58 <PuffTheMagic> and u need the .so from the emulator/pre to link against
Aug 25 18:21:36 <phil_bw> so are services written in Java pretty simple then?
Aug 25 18:21:43 <destinal> phil_bw: very
Aug 25 18:22:06 <atlanta> destinal and PuffTheMagic : GOTCHA
Aug 25 18:22:12 <phil_bw> if you can't get libpurp to do what you want it really wouldn't be too hard to write a full on client in java
Aug 25 18:22:35 <phil_bw> I mean I'd have to learn Java... but as far as the sockets/protocol stuff goes that's all childs play
Aug 25 18:23:11 <PuffTheMagic> phil_bw: there is a java irc library
Aug 25 18:23:16 <destinal> phil_bw: well I personally want to get c services going well enough to extend purple support to get other IM protocols working too.
Aug 25 18:23:17 <PuffTheMagic> so no need reinventing the wheel
Aug 25 18:23:29 <phil_bw> if someone write a naked service in java that simply connected, sent/received data, and disconnected from a remote server I could fill in the rest
Aug 25 18:23:30 <destinal> I know palm will eventually get to some of them but why wait?
Aug 25 18:23:31 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: we wont be able to use libpurpleadapter
Aug 25 18:23:36 <PuffTheMagic> we will have to make our own
Aug 25 18:23:41 <PuffTheMagic> since its copyrighted
Aug 25 18:23:42 <phil_bw> well then
Aug 25 18:23:46 <phil_bw> gotta love linux
Aug 25 18:23:46 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: it's LGPL
Aug 25 18:23:50 <PuffTheMagic> oh yeah
Aug 25 18:23:51 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Aug 25 18:23:56 <phil_bw> everything's already written
Aug 25 18:24:02 <PuffTheMagic> ehhh
Aug 25 18:24:04 <PuffTheMagic> not really
Aug 25 18:24:11 <PuffTheMagic> there is nothing in it for irc
Aug 25 18:24:12 <phil_bw> just need enough duct tape and zip ties to pull it all together
Aug 25 18:24:15 <PuffTheMagic> so its pretty much useless
Aug 25 18:24:17 <destinal> the adapter needs extended
Aug 25 18:24:29 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: i don think i would "extend it"
Aug 25 18:24:33 <destinal> or a new one written
Aug 25 18:24:46 <PuffTheMagic> libpurpleircadapter
Aug 25 18:24:47 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Aug 25 18:24:48 <destinal> the problem with extending libpurple-adapter is people would have to replace theirs with ours
Aug 25 18:24:55 <PuffTheMagic> right
Aug 25 18:24:55 <destinal> yeah, another copy modified is better
Aug 25 18:25:04 <PuffTheMagic> with im shit stripped out
Aug 25 18:25:16 <PuffTheMagic> but doing that leave you with nothing useful
Aug 25 18:25:21 <PuffTheMagic> so its not gonna help much
Aug 25 18:25:25 <PuffTheMagic> besides examples
Aug 25 18:25:29 <PuffTheMagic> for doing subscriptions etc.
Aug 25 18:25:37 <PuffTheMagic> which i hope to have in the batteryadapter
Aug 25 18:25:42 <PuffTheMagic> so the gui dont need to poll
Aug 25 18:26:10 <en0x> the gtalk client on pre uses push?
Aug 25 18:26:11 <destinal> so why a battery service, aren't there already battery services?
Aug 25 18:26:51 <destinal> en0x: uh, gtalk is jabber, I don't know if either push or pull applies to what you mena
Aug 25 18:26:52 <destinal> mean
Aug 25 18:27:16 <en0x> mhm kk
Aug 25 18:28:20 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: I thought basically there was battery information on the bus all the time anyway, why would you need a new service?
Aug 25 18:28:49 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: cause i cant seem to use it
Aug 25 18:29:00 <PuffTheMagic> destinal:  i think it requires subscription
Aug 25 18:29:05 <PuffTheMagic> so you cant just ask for info once
Aug 25 18:29:07 <PuffTheMagic> plus
Aug 25 18:29:12 <PuffTheMagic> since i cant test it
Aug 25 18:29:15 <PuffTheMagic> id ont know what i provides
Aug 25 18:29:32 <PuffTheMagic> i was hoping to get more info than just percentage
Aug 25 18:29:34 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: have you tried listening with dbus-util ?
Aug 25 18:29:44 <PuffTheMagic> not really
Aug 25 18:29:45 <destinal> err capturing
Aug 25 18:30:18 <en0x> Pre or webOS questions for Palm customer support? Tweet 'em our way tomorrow (Aug 26) at 1 PM Pacific: http://bit.ly/2K7DYO
Aug 25 18:30:20 <destinal> well if it's an example for learning I guess it doesn't matter which thing you tackle
Aug 25 18:30:21 <en0x> oh
Aug 25 18:30:33 <en0x> gotta ask them when they finally fix the stupid aac+ bug
Aug 25 18:30:53 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: let me know if you can get any info from dbus
Aug 25 18:32:15 <destinal> sigh, this microusb port is really starting to feel loose, and dropping connections if I tweak the cable in the slightest
Aug 25 18:32:51 <phil_bw> destinal, I don't own a Pre yet but I was sure hoping that cable connection would be one upgrade from my Centro...  that sucks
Aug 25 18:32:52 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: i was afraid of that happening
Aug 25 18:33:04 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: should be covered under factory warranty though
Aug 25 18:33:06 <atlanta> destinal: i feel like mines gonna get like that soon
Aug 25 18:33:13 <atlanta> destinal: back to the sprint store
Aug 25 18:34:07 <destinal> phil_bw: I'm probably an extreme case of use
Aug 25 18:34:29 <destinal> and I wish now that I had bought a touchstone with the pre, they rock, and then I wouldn't plug / unplug very much at all
Aug 25 18:35:05 <destinal> probably get one soon anyway
Aug 25 18:35:15 <phil_bw> destinal, still, we've all owned other usb/microusb devices that are fine for *years*
Aug 25 18:35:53 <destinal> yeah, v1 build quality, alas
Aug 25 18:36:25 <destinal> this is the first real issue I've had with mine though
Aug 25 18:36:34 <atlanta> destinal: check your PM
Aug 25 18:36:36 <phil_bw> I finally quit using my cable for my Centro, all transferes are via bluetooth or web now...
Aug 25 18:38:08 <FreeTim> I plug in/ out at least three times daily... so it better LAST, if it doesn't come with the touchtone I shouldn't be forced to use one
Aug 25 18:38:27 <AnOutsider> haha I joined lte, but im guessing we're talking about that flimsy ass port on the pre
Aug 25 18:38:35 <AnOutsider> I wish you could connect via the touchstone
Aug 25 18:38:40 <AnOutsider> or they'd thought to put the port on the bottom
Aug 25 18:38:40 <atlanta> AnOutsider: lol
Aug 25 18:39:37 <phil_bw> so is it safe to assume that there aren't adequate bluetooth/wifi connection options?
Aug 25 18:40:03 <atlanta> phil_bw:  wifi works marvelous for me
Aug 25 18:40:06 <destinal> phil_bw: bluetooth and wifi are fine
Aug 25 18:40:31 <phil_bw> so why are the usb action?
Aug 25 18:40:47 <phil_bw> wait
Aug 25 18:40:48 <phil_bw> dumb question
Aug 25 18:40:57 <phil_bw> guess ya gotta charge the battery some how...
Aug 25 18:41:02 <destinal> phil_bw: I use usbnet, no bluetooth or wifi to my workstation at work.
Aug 25 18:41:20 <destinal> and yeah, no touchstone yet so have to charge somehow
Aug 25 18:41:42 <phil_bw> those touchstones are waaay overpriced
Aug 25 18:41:51 <Templarian> phil_bw: just a bit
Aug 25 18:42:08 <gkatsev> but they are fing awesome
Aug 25 18:42:08 <phil_bw> come on seidio, build us a cheap generic version
Aug 25 18:43:11 <en0x> i got my touchstone with back cover for 50 bucks
Aug 25 18:43:22 <AnOutsider> mine has issues orienting the device sometimes, but otherwise great
Aug 25 18:43:24 <gkatsev> precentral is selling them for 50, no?
Aug 25 18:43:29 <en0x> gkatsev: right
Aug 25 18:43:35 <AnOutsider> i want to get one for the office. they ARe overpriced though and dont even come with an effing cable
Aug 25 18:43:58 <gkatsev> i got mine with the pre from sprint because my sprint guy gave me a 20% discount if i bought it then, so, paid 55
Aug 25 18:44:23 <en0x> i got car holder and touchstone from precentral
Aug 25 18:45:46 <nebula> hrm
Aug 25 18:45:49 <nebula> drop down lists...
Aug 25 18:46:40 <nebula> $("<option>Select a ROM...</option>").appendTo
Aug 25 18:46:49 <nebula> hrm, won't let me click it
Aug 25 18:52:16 <atlanta> ughh almost done here at work
Aug 25 18:54:24 <nebula> hrm
Aug 25 18:54:33 <nebula> someone got a second to help me with a dropdown list?
Aug 25 18:54:57 <AnOutsider> I haven't done one in a pre app
Aug 25 18:55:03 <AnOutsider> but i know hwo they work in HTML
Aug 25 18:55:58 <nebula> http://dpaste.com/85274/
Aug 25 18:56:06 <nebula> works in a desktop browser
Aug 25 19:05:07 <AnOutsider> well since i neve rused prototype or any other JS libraries before heading to the pre, I can't really speak for the shortcuts/syntax there
Aug 25 19:06:24 <atlanta> bbl
Aug 25 19:08:46 <gkatsev> if im getting my pre replaced, will they want the box back?
Aug 25 19:08:54 <nebula> nope
Aug 25 19:09:04 <gkatsev> k
Aug 25 19:11:14 <Ikyo|Sleep> normally they won't want anything except the phone...that is how I ended up with like 3 chargers for my Touch Pro
Aug 25 19:11:29 <gkatsev> heh
Aug 25 19:12:22 * Templarian swapped out the header content on the main page http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Main_Page
Aug 25 19:13:17 <gkatsev> i should get my pre replaced... no time tonight though and havent webOSdred it yet.
Aug 25 19:13:48 <Ikyo> I doubt they would care about that.  They would just reset it there if they thought it was the cause.
Aug 25 19:14:22 <gkatsev> Ikyo: i care
Aug 25 19:17:14 <destinal> PuffTheMagic, rwhitby, oil: so what's up with the preware "updating" circle still even with event.d script?
Aug 25 19:17:51 <destinal> a friend just installed the current version and rebooted and gets that.  known issue?
Aug 25 19:20:37 <PuffTheMagic> version 2.01 of the quick installer?
Aug 25 19:29:24 <oil> + package service
Aug 25 19:42:40 <v4lyfe> Is there a cache for compiled scripts?
Aug 25 19:44:45 <Templarian> v4lyfe: You mean is JS converted to byte code before it is ran?
Aug 25 19:46:39 <v4lyfe> well i am doing some testing and have the debugger hooked up
Aug 25 19:47:03 <v4lyfe> and am running "trace compile"
Aug 25 19:47:15 <v4lyfe> and the JavaScript that is dumped is not current with what I think I am running
Aug 25 19:47:37 <v4lyfe> and I am wondering if my JS is being cached somewhere
Aug 25 19:48:01 <v4lyfe> although, the web os main site explicitly says that nothing is cached "for optimal developer experience"
Aug 25 19:49:37 <AnOutsider> nice spin
Aug 25 19:50:15 <destinal> apps themselves are cached but you can always rescan
Aug 25 19:54:26 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: didn't use quick install, used the feed from command line to install it, ran postinst by hand and rebooted
Aug 25 19:54:41 <PuffTheMagic> nfc then
Aug 25 19:54:48 <PuffTheMagic> sometimes it does that
Aug 25 19:54:52 <PuffTheMagic> but if u close and repo
Aug 25 19:54:53 <PuffTheMagic> its working
Aug 25 19:57:27 <v4lyfe> figured it out, and i am ashamed... i moved between computers and was editing the wrong code
Aug 25 19:57:39 <v4lyfe> so no cache
Aug 25 19:57:43 <v4lyfe> just dumb developer
Aug 25 20:07:13 <atlanta> destinal: PM
Aug 25 20:07:16 <atlanta> wsup people
Aug 25 20:15:39 <Templarian> v4lyfe: PEBKAC is a serious problem that effects some users.
Aug 25 20:17:40 <v4lyfe> I blame the operating system for not solving this problem
Aug 25 20:26:38 <Ikyo> is it possible to make the emulator go into a landscape mode?
Aug 25 20:27:18 <atlanta> Ikyo: nope
Aug 25 20:27:42 <destinal> well, not that we *know* of yet
Aug 25 20:27:57 <destinal> I wouldn't be surprised if it can work
Aug 25 20:28:06 <Templarian> It can't though.
Aug 25 20:29:07 <Ikyo> does 250px sound about right for the width of the title bar in the browser without the rounded corners?
Aug 25 20:29:10 <HattCzech> anyone here played with making an app run in the background?
Aug 25 20:29:38 <atlanta> use the palm header css tag
Aug 25 20:29:42 <atlanta> it will auto size it on rotate
Aug 25 20:30:23 <atlanta> off topic: looks like twitter getting DDOS again
Aug 25 20:30:26 <egaudet_work> no Ikyo
Aug 25 20:30:28 <Ikyo> Atlanta: I am trying to correct the error that Fritos has on the bar not being the correct size in landscape.
Aug 25 20:30:47 <destinal> doh, pidgin crash
Aug 25 20:31:09 <Templarian> destinal: happens, pidgin has odd bugs still.
Aug 25 20:31:16 * atlanta forgot pidgen does IRC might start using it again
Aug 25 20:31:34 <atlanta> Ikyo: who is Fritos?
Aug 25 20:31:35 <atlanta> lol
Aug 25 20:31:43 <destinal> Templarian: what did you mean by "it can't though"
Aug 25 20:32:17 <Templarian> destinal: I believe they have to edit the image before it can to handle resizing.
Aug 25 20:32:22 <destinal> it would be reasonable to presume that the emulator can rotate its screen, now you may want to rotate your monitor as well
Aug 25 20:32:27 <Templarian> can handle*
Aug 25 20:33:11 <destinal> it's worth checking into certainly
Aug 25 20:33:57 <Templarian> destinal: palm said something way back in early release about it all, and it sounded like it was more work than it was worth at the moment (I'm sure they will get time though)
Aug 25 20:33:59 <egaudet_work> Ikyo, the width of the bar looks more like 300
Aug 25 20:42:04 <rwhitby> atlanta: actually, preware can't install services properly yet.  only webos quick install at the moment.
Aug 25 20:42:17 <atlanta> oh ok gotcha
Aug 25 20:42:25 <atlanta> rwhitby: is there a way we can setup in the feed
Aug 25 20:42:28 <atlanta> to add like parms?
Aug 25 20:42:38 <rwhitby> what do you mean?
Aug 25 20:42:53 <atlanta> just thinking like
Aug 25 20:43:09 <atlanta> have a special parmeter field where it can tell preware where to install
Aug 25 20:43:11 <atlanta> or somethign
Aug 25 20:43:14 <rwhitby> Templarian: yep, it will in 1.0.0
Aug 25 20:43:43 <rwhitby> ~seen phil_bw
Aug 25 20:43:46 <infobot> phil_bw <n=Phil@71-214-121-30.ptld.qwest.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 2h 1m 38s ago, saying: 'come on seidio, build us a cheap generic version'.
Aug 25 20:43:48 <atlanta> just thinking
Aug 25 20:44:54 <rwhitby> Templarian: Preware will be able to install services in 1.0.0
Aug 25 20:45:33 <Templarian> oh... yea context when bumping convos.
Aug 25 20:45:42 <Templarian> hehe
Aug 25 20:48:23 <AnOutsider> anyone here crazy enough to run an IE version less than 7?
Aug 25 20:48:26 <AnOutsider> IE6 mainly?
Aug 25 20:49:50 <gkatsev> AnOutsider: yes, there are, i dont know why someone would, though, i think most of them use them because they have to
Aug 25 20:51:03 <AnOutsider> no I know there ARE (I've got google analytics stats that sadly prove that), but I'm wondering if anyone HERE is currently running it
Aug 25 20:51:08 <AnOutsider> need a site checked out in IE6
Aug 25 20:51:15 <AnOutsider> and safari if anyone is on mac
Aug 25 20:52:10 <gkatsev> AnOutsider: http://browsershots.org/
Aug 25 20:52:30 <AnOutsider> yeah, i knoe of that, and netrenderer ;)
Aug 25 20:52:38 <AnOutsider> problem is, that's a screenshot and not actual "usage"
Aug 25 20:52:59 <gkatsev> right
Aug 25 20:53:19 <AnOutsider> ah well, ill check safari when I get back to the office. For now, IE6 can suck it
Aug 25 20:53:46 <Dogy> Is the WebOS qucik install comes with the Phone?
Aug 25 20:53:47 <Dogy> Is the WebOS qucik install comes with the Phone?
Aug 25 20:53:57 <Dogy> Sorry.. duplicate it
Aug 25 20:54:01 <AnOutsider> no, you have to download it
Aug 25 20:54:09 <AnOutsider> it's not an official Palm product
Aug 25 20:54:20 <AnOutsider> http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/194832-webos-quick-install.html
Aug 25 20:54:28 <Dogy> So how u install software and program on the Palm?
Aug 25 20:54:41 <AnOutsider> Ok, the official method is through the app catalog
Aug 25 20:54:49 <AnOutsider> for homebrew apps, please follow the link I just posted
Aug 25 20:55:02 <Dogy> and if it's not in app catalog?
Aug 25 20:55:11 <AnOutsider> Please actually read what I type.
Aug 25 20:55:26 <Dogy> Only by using WebOS quick install?
Aug 25 20:55:41 <HattCzech> AnOutsider, that's asking too much ;)
Aug 25 20:55:45 <HattCzech> hahah
Aug 25 20:55:54 <Dogy> why?
Aug 25 20:56:11 <Dogy> explain me
Aug 25 20:56:19 <AnOutsider> Because you are not listening to the information being provided to you. Click the link for webos quick install
Aug 25 20:56:21 <HattCzech> Dogy, follow that link and read the instructions, it should explain it
Aug 25 20:56:22 <AnOutsider> read the instructions
Aug 25 20:56:32 <Dogy> sure
Aug 25 20:56:34 <Dogy> Thanks..
Aug 25 20:57:09 <HattCzech> urg, dashboard and notifications are killing me
Aug 25 20:57:30 <Dogy> Can I use it to install for Emulator?
Aug 25 20:57:36 <AnOutsider> haha, I messed with that for the datpiff app (music playing in the background), pain in the arse
Aug 25 20:57:43 <AnOutsider> I'm sure I'll get the hang of it, but I put it down
Aug 25 20:58:06 <AnOutsider> I also didnt have the book yet, I was using dev.palm and that thing is muddy at best
Aug 25 20:58:15 <HattCzech> i'm trying to get my app to run in the background... i don't need a dashboard or anything, but all of the tutorials are explaining that way
Aug 25 20:58:16 <AnOutsider> ah batman is here, time to go play
Aug 25 20:58:29 <HattCzech> so it's hard to get it setup with the minimum
Aug 25 20:58:31 <AnOutsider> i think to run int he background, make it an app using app assistant
Aug 25 20:58:33 <AnOutsider> and neve rpush a scene
Aug 25 20:58:34 <rwhitby> AnOutsider: say hello to Robin for me
Aug 25 20:58:42 <HattCzech> well, i need a scene for config
Aug 25 20:58:50 <HattCzech> i got the appassistant to work
Aug 25 20:59:08 <HattCzech> i just need to determine how and when to push the background scene or whatever
Aug 25 20:59:27 <AnOutsider> haha as far as I know, robin isn't int his one
Aug 25 20:59:50 <AnOutsider> hmm i thought the app continues to run as long as there's something there
Aug 25 20:59:53 <AnOutsider> oh wait, u want nothing
Aug 25 21:00:05 <HattCzech> hehehe yup :)
Aug 25 21:00:17 <HattCzech> i need it to be open, but have no card
Aug 25 21:00:26 <HattCzech> that's where i'm having some issues
Aug 25 21:01:01 <Ikyo> So when you close the config card, it doesn't close the app right?
Aug 25 21:01:08 <HattCzech> correct
Aug 25 21:01:16 <HattCzech> but i don't need a dashboard or anything...
Aug 25 21:01:37 <HattCzech> and using the config card, i'll need to be able to close the 'background' app if wanted
Aug 25 21:01:41 <Dogy> AnOutsider, one more questions..
Aug 25 21:01:59 <Dogy> the Installation file I should Only make is ipkg file?
Aug 25 21:02:09 <Ikyo> So the config card will be the only way to close the app?
Aug 25 21:02:10 <HattCzech> ipk, not ipkg
Aug 25 21:02:21 <HattCzech> Ikyo, correct
Aug 25 21:02:22 <Dogy> yes..
Aug 25 21:02:32 <Dogy> ipk no ipkg..
Aug 25 21:02:46 <Dogy> that the only installation format I can create for it?
Aug 25 21:02:53 <HattCzech> to install an app, TYPICALLY you only need the ipk file
Aug 25 21:03:05 <HattCzech> some apps require services, so those would be additional files
Aug 25 21:03:26 <Dogy> Ok,
Aug 25 21:04:25 <Dogy> I want to create registration during installation that connect a server via the internet for registering my software
Aug 25 21:04:29 <Dogy> can it be done?
Aug 25 21:04:56 <HattCzech> yeah
Aug 25 21:05:04 <HattCzech> just have your app connect to your site
Aug 25 21:05:28 <HattCzech> obviously you'll have to have an internet connection, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem
Aug 25 21:05:47 <rwhitby> beware of people running tcpdump on the phone and doing a mitm attack on your registration protocol ....
Aug 25 21:06:40 <HattCzech> rwhitby, what if all that was sent for registration was a deviceid or something?
Aug 25 21:06:45 <HattCzech> and the result being the key?
Aug 25 21:06:57 <rwhitby> HattCzech: pretty easy to spoof that
Aug 25 21:06:59 <HattCzech> (i haven't messed with registration much, just a thought)
Aug 25 21:07:03 <Ikyo> What if someone gets a new device too
Aug 25 21:07:17 <HattCzech> yeah, Ikyo, that would be a problem
Aug 25 21:07:32 <HattCzech> rwhitby, what if the server is generating the key?
Aug 25 21:07:50 <HattCzech> the mitm attack wouldn't be able to determine the algorithm...
Aug 25 21:08:02 <Ikyo> You will also need a way to encrypt it so they just can't code around it.
Aug 25 21:08:08 <HattCzech> (unless you can gather quite a few id/key pairs)
Aug 25 21:08:32 <rwhitby> true, but you could send the server lots of different id/key pairs, so you'd better use a crptographic grade algorith,
Aug 25 21:08:40 <HattCzech> hmmm, that's why i figured all the registration stuff is tricky :)
Aug 25 21:09:14 <rwhitby> well, you just need to rely on real cryptography, rather than just relying on a closed device
Aug 25 21:10:04 <rwhitby> and your key checking routine will want to be in a binary plugin or service, cause obfuscated javascript is easy to reverse engineer.
Aug 25 21:11:27 <Dogy> HattCzech.. during installation?
Aug 25 21:11:29 <Dogy> how to do that?
Aug 25 21:11:43 <HattCzech> yeah, i've been working on obfuscating code as well, that's no fun either
Aug 25 21:12:01 <HattCzech> it wouldn't be during installation, it would have to be during first run
Aug 25 21:12:10 <Dogy> Ok.
Aug 25 21:12:38 <Dogy> How to make the conection to the site?
Aug 25 21:12:58 <Dogy> Should I write a webService at my site and use it in the Apps?
Aug 25 21:13:31 <HattCzech> apps are written in JS and HTML, so do it however you like
Aug 25 21:13:38 <HattCzech> as for logistics, that's up to you
Aug 25 21:13:53 <HattCzech> registration is too much of a PITA for me, so i haven't dealt with it yet
Aug 25 21:14:17 <rwhitby> HattCzech: any obfuscated code that the javascript engine can execute, I can reverse engineer a key checking algorithm out of it ...
Aug 25 21:14:25 <Dogy> what u suggest me that u think is the best way for doing it?
Aug 25 21:14:38 <rwhitby> (not that I would, I respect the right for authors to charge for applications)
Aug 25 21:15:25 <zomg> sure you could always parse obfuscated JS code but it's a major PITA if you've obfuscated all variable/function/property names =)
Aug 25 21:15:39 <HattCzech> is it wrong of me to obfuscate my code so that it's harder to rip-off? (that's all i'm doing so far... like compressing and stuff)
Aug 25 21:15:54 <v4lyfe> hattczech waste of time
Aug 25 21:15:59 <HattCzech> zomg, that's what i'm getting to next :) haven't gone quite that far
Aug 25 21:16:07 <v4lyfe> HattCzech: people will alway rip it off
Aug 25 21:16:36 <v4lyfe> and eventually it will have to run
Aug 25 21:16:39 <HattCzech> v4lyfe, yeah, but i'd like to make it a tad bit more difficult for them :)
Aug 25 21:16:43 <zomg> HattCzech: obfuscating can probably reduce the takers, but if someone seriously wants to rip off your code they can do it =)
Aug 25 21:16:44 <v4lyfe> true
Aug 25 21:16:56 <HattCzech> yeah, that's understandable
Aug 25 21:16:58 <v4lyfe> HattCzech: basically invest a little time but not much
Aug 25 21:17:03 <zomg> it's kinda like leaving your door open
Aug 25 21:17:07 <HattCzech> but as of now, w/o obfuscating it... copying it is EASY
Aug 25 21:17:09 <zomg> or locking it
Aug 25 21:17:22 <HattCzech> yeah
Aug 25 21:17:24 <rwhitby> HattCzech: dunno.  I personally would hate to be a developer on webOS doing it for money, unless you know how to do binary services, cause everything above that is just too easy to crack.
Aug 25 21:17:28 <zomg> most people won't consider stealing from you if your door's locked, but if it's open...
Aug 25 21:17:42 <zomg> even though with some effort most could probably figure a way in through a locked door.
Aug 25 21:18:43 <HattCzech> rwhitby, yeah, i'd just like to get a bit of incentive for my efforts
Aug 25 21:19:06 <HattCzech> and i'm unemployed right now, so i have time to play around with this :)
Aug 25 21:21:22 <destinal> rwhitby: I don't know about all that.  I think people will buy apps that are good with about the same proportion as iphone
Aug 25 21:21:34 <destinal> or as android maybe a little more accurately
Aug 25 21:21:59 <HattCzech> the problem with webOS is that the code is open... i'm not sure about iPhone and android apps
Aug 25 21:22:05 <rwhitby> destinal: yeah, you're probably right.  most people are honest at the prices that are charged for these apps.
Aug 25 21:22:15 <destinal> piracy has nothing to do with source code readability
Aug 25 21:22:42 <destinal> when people want to copy stuff to give away to others they'll copy it whether they can read it or not
Aug 25 21:22:54 <rwhitby> well, a key checking algorithm in javascript is a bit easier to crack than one in binary
Aug 25 21:23:11 <HattCzech> yeah, that's my point
Aug 25 21:23:26 <HattCzech> you can look at the JS to step it through
Aug 25 21:23:27 <destinal> rwhitby: so be creative?
Aug 25 21:23:29 <rwhitby> destinal: I agree with you for stuff that doesn't have registration built in
Aug 25 21:24:05 <HattCzech> rwhitby, how do you do binary services?
Aug 25 21:24:08 <destinal> if you don't mind having your program only work while your user is online, have a piece of javascript that comes from the user in response to the correct hardware id
Aug 25 21:24:22 <destinal> s/the user/the server/
Aug 25 21:24:22 <infobot> destinal meant: if you don't mind having your program only work while your user is online, have a piece of javascript that comes from the server in response to the correct hardware id
Aug 25 21:24:39 <rwhitby> destinal: that'll stop me buying that program.  I need offline operation from any significant app I use.
Aug 25 21:24:55 <HattCzech> yeah, and my app wouldn't NEED to be online...
Aug 25 21:25:12 <HattCzech> and i dislike apps that require me to be online... like the web browser :) hahaha
Aug 25 21:25:35 <destinal> :)
Aug 25 21:25:56 <HattCzech> localhost is not online! and it irritates me :) hahaha
Aug 25 21:26:28 <rwhitby> and then the author will need to deduct the data costs from the purchase price for those of us who don't have unlimited data plans available.
Aug 25 21:26:30 <destinal> so ultimately I don't know the answer to the question but I think people will be honest except for the people that would download it from the guy who cracks it
Aug 25 21:26:54 <destinal> rwhitby: may the gods have mercy on you if you don't have unlimited bandwidth
Aug 25 21:26:58 <HattCzech> yeah, good point
Aug 25 21:27:03 <HattCzech> lol
Aug 25 21:27:04 <destinal> I have no idea how my pre racks up so much usagwe
Aug 25 21:27:30 <HattCzech> wait... pre w/o unlimited usage? how?
Aug 25 21:27:51 <rwhitby> HattCzech: when it gets released in GSM countries that have unlocked phones by default
Aug 25 21:28:08 <destinal> rwhitby: there will be problems, I don't know what those folks do with iphones
Aug 25 21:28:18 <destinal> but it sounds like a serious issue
Aug 25 21:28:22 <HattCzech> ahhh okay
Aug 25 21:28:34 <destinal> these devices were never designed to sip bandwidth
Aug 25 21:28:47 <HattCzech> i'm just thinking in the now, not the future... my bad :)
Aug 25 21:28:52 <rwhitby> destinal: people buy big monthly caps
Aug 25 21:29:12 <destinal> rwhitby: if you don't mind me asking, how much do you have a month for your treo now?
Aug 25 21:29:35 <rwhitby> same as normal broadband here - there are virtually no unlimited cable or adsl plans
Aug 25 21:29:55 <HattCzech> awww, my treo... i remember the days when i had an awesome plan... then the pre destroyed that awesomeness :(
Aug 25 21:30:01 <rwhitby> destinal: I have a bluetooth access point set up at work and home, to limit the GSM data usage.
Aug 25 21:30:22 <rwhitby> (one of the reasons why I started nslu2-linux.org)
Aug 25 21:30:37 <destinal> rwhitby: did you ever post a list of your must-haves?  I don't think we've got them all yet :)
Aug 25 21:31:22 <rwhitby> destinal: don't worry, I'll be patching in most of what I need, like location-aware network bandwidth throttling.
Aug 25 21:31:38 <destinal> so I had thought about the idea of a location service
Aug 25 21:31:40 <rwhitby> iptables is pretty versatile :-)
Aug 25 21:31:58 <destinal> not coordinates but one that gives a zone id
Aug 25 21:32:12 <destinal> so I define home as z radius from x and y coordinates
Aug 25 21:32:24 <rwhitby> yep
Aug 25 21:32:46 <rwhitby> have a look at some of the openmoko freesmartphone.org stuff for that.
Aug 25 21:32:52 <destinal> and then alerts on dbus if the phone is awake and changes zones
Aug 25 21:32:57 <destinal> or if woken up and has changed
Aug 25 21:33:08 <Decimation> hello everyoneee.
Aug 25 21:33:09 <rwhitby> they had a whole language around customising reactions to phone events
Aug 25 21:33:26 <HattCzech> that sounds pretty awesome :)
Aug 25 21:33:35 <rwhitby> oeventsd is what they created, with a lua config file I think
Aug 25 21:33:58 <rwhitby> "if at home, and charging, turn volume down"
Aug 25 21:34:26 <rwhitby> Decimation: did you see oil overnight?
Aug 25 21:34:44 <rwhitby> (well, overnight my time, last 10 hours your time)
Aug 25 21:34:47 <destinal> rwhitby: I guess it wouldn't be too hard to add lunaservice dbus awareness to their daemon
Aug 25 21:34:55 <Decimation> rwhitby: nope.
Aug 25 21:35:03 <rwhitby> destinal: they did most of their stuff over dbus
Aug 25 21:35:36 <rwhitby> destinal: mickey|bbl leads the freesmartphone.org project, and he's in this channel
Aug 25 21:36:06 <rwhitby> you can guarantee that as soon as a GSM Pre is released, fso will be ported to it.
Aug 25 21:36:52 <destinal> rwhitby:  heh, have you considered whether you'll stay on webos or switch?
Aug 25 21:37:54 <destinal> then again maybe there will be a hybrid approach that works as well
Aug 25 21:39:30 <rwhitby> destinal: fso stuff will work alongside webos I expect.
Aug 25 21:39:55 <rwhitby> i'll be wanting to run classic, so I'll be sticking with webos and do an optware style thing if necessary for anything else
Aug 25 21:40:46 <destinal> classic could be run without luna, too.  it's just NPAPI after all
Aug 25 21:41:56 <HattCzech> did anyone here do the predevcamp in their area?
Aug 25 21:41:58 <destinal> of course you'd  have to extend some other browser to support palm's event types and so on,  I doubt it's high on anyone's list.
Aug 25 21:42:20 <Decimation> HattCzech, i wish there had been one here.
Aug 25 21:43:19 <rwhitby> HattCzech: I did the Adelaide PreDevCamp in my lounge room.  Only my kids attended :-)
Aug 25 21:43:41 <HattCzech> heheh
Aug 25 21:43:49 <Decimation> rwhitby: quality over quanity :D
Aug 25 21:44:02 <HattCzech> well, the guy that ran the one here in austin was talking about palm providing books... i'm wondering if that was true?
Aug 25 21:44:10 <rwhitby> Decimation: well, neither of them did any coding ...
Aug 25 21:44:25 <rwhitby> HattCzech: yeah, Palm provided books to all the camps
Aug 25 21:44:30 <rwhitby> (except mine)
Aug 25 21:44:39 <HattCzech> urg, then i want my book :) hahaha
Aug 25 21:45:11 <HattCzech> this is killing me trying to test everything :)
Aug 25 21:47:06 <destinal> from what I hear the book has some errors since it was written against a moving target, but I haven't looked at it since the rough cut.  mine has been on my bookshelf downstairs for a few days now and I still haven't read it
Aug 25 21:47:28 <destinal> so maybe they did fix those prior to printing, not sure
Aug 25 21:47:29 <v4lyfe> do you know if it has any security info in it?
Aug 25 21:47:52 <destinal> IIRC not much
Aug 25 21:48:03 * destinal looks for the roughcut pdf
Aug 25 21:48:56 <Templarian> If you are near a university the book is free now on safari books.
Aug 25 21:49:21 <destinal> v4lyfe: the text  "secur"  does not exist in the rough cut version I have hear
Aug 25 21:49:25 <destinal> s/hear/here/
Aug 25 21:49:26 <infobot> destinal meant: v4lyfe: the text  "secur"  does not exist in the rough cut version I have here
Aug 25 21:49:33 <v4lyfe> heh
Aug 25 21:49:48 <v4lyfe> i have never seen an infobot which does that
Aug 25 21:49:52 <v4lyfe> very handy
Aug 25 21:50:08 <destinal> ~botsnack
Aug 25 21:50:09 <infobot> destinal: thanks
Aug 25 21:50:25 <Templarian> Yep this infobot is pretty nice.
Aug 25 21:51:04 <Templarian> s/Yep this infobot is pretty nice./to say I suck/
Aug 25 21:51:04 <infobot> Templarian meant: to say I suck
Aug 25 21:52:00 <gkatsev> infobot++
Aug 25 21:57:27 <Dogy> Now how to create pack all into IPK?
Aug 25 21:57:57 <Decimation> lol, hey Dogs.
Aug 25 21:57:58 <Dogy> using KOMODO?
Aug 25 21:58:05 <Decimation> s/Dogs/Dogy/
Aug 25 21:58:05 <infobot> Decimation meant: lol, hey Dogy.
Aug 25 21:58:18 <Dogy> lol..
Aug 25 21:58:47 <Dogy> ?
Aug 25 21:58:49 <Dogy> Now how to create pack all into IPK?
Aug 25 21:58:56 <v4lyfe> palm-package
Aug 25 21:59:02 <Dogy> using Komodo?
Aug 25 21:59:13 <Dogy> what's palm-package? where it come from?
Aug 25 21:59:21 <destinal> Dogy: from the sdk
Aug 25 21:59:27 <Dogy> yes I see that
Aug 25 21:59:37 <Dogy> How to use it?
Aug 25 21:59:47 <destinal> Dogy: rtfm
Aug 25 21:59:59 <Dogy> rtfm?
Aug 25 22:00:02 <destinal> http://developer.palm.com/
Aug 25 22:00:04 <Dogy> meaninng?
Aug 25 22:00:10 <destinal> http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1597
Aug 25 22:00:15 <destinal> read the fine manual
Aug 25 22:00:19 <Dogy> read the fucking manuel?
Aug 25 22:00:27 <Dogy> ah.. urs better
Aug 25 22:00:32 <destinal> :)
Aug 25 22:00:46 <Dogy> So what I can use Komodo?
Aug 25 22:00:48 <v4lyfe> I did find a javascript cache of srots
Aug 25 22:01:04 <HattCzech> you can use komodo or eclipse
Aug 25 22:01:07 <v4lyfe> if you do Mojo.loadScriptWithCallback(url);
Aug 25 22:01:14 <HattCzech> i've tried both, and i'd recommend komodo
Aug 25 22:01:18 <v4lyfe> The url will only be loaded once
Aug 25 22:01:32 <v4lyfe> you have to do luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {}
Aug 25 22:01:33 <destinal> or notepad and the command line sdk stuff, but either IDE is probably easier
Aug 25 22:01:37 <Dogy> what's Komodo use for?
Aug 25 22:01:37 <v4lyfe> to clear it out
Aug 25 22:02:03 <HattCzech> to create an application
Aug 25 22:02:08 <destinal> Dogy: they are IDE's
Aug 25 22:02:17 <v4lyfe> Dogy: I recommend that you follow Hello World to go through all of the steps : http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1758
Aug 25 22:02:20 <destinal> development environments for writing code
Aug 25 22:02:52 <destinal> and yeah, the palm developer site really is laid out to walk you through how everything works
Aug 25 22:02:58 <destinal> best to try stuff before asking
Aug 25 22:03:36 <destinal> there's way too much info to learn it all over IRC
Aug 25 22:05:42 * rwhitby said it was like learning brain surgery by asking a brain surgeon a couple of questions ...
Aug 25 22:05:53 <destinal> hehe
Aug 25 22:08:48 <Dogy> So I can packge in Komodo?
Aug 25 22:08:54 <Dogy> make packge?
Aug 25 22:12:50 <Ikyo> gotta love Apple.....less then $30 for a new OS
Aug 25 22:14:15 <HattCzech> Ikyo, yeah, cuz you paid enough for the hardware :) heheh
Aug 25 22:14:38 <gkatsev> also cuz snow leopard is more of a service pack..
Aug 25 22:14:47 <HattCzech> ahhh okay
Aug 25 22:14:50 <PuffTheMagic> Ikyo: $0 for linux
Aug 25 22:15:01 <gkatsev> also, $0 for service packs for windows. :D
Aug 25 22:15:59 <Ikyo> I don't mind paying for my hardware because it works.  It really isn't that much more when you look at the comparable windows machines
Aug 25 22:16:05 <destinal> interesting,  the pre's a computer too but nobody would think of charging for an operating system for a mobile handset
Aug 25 22:16:28 <destinal> well maybe microsoft does, I don't know
Aug 25 22:16:44 <HattCzech> i want a mac, just a bit pricey
Aug 25 22:16:52 <gkatsev> destinal: apple does for the ipod touch
Aug 25 22:16:55 <HattCzech> although the macbook 13" hits the spot
Aug 25 22:18:05 <Ikyo> Hatt: you should look at some of the refurbished models apple has.  You can get a great deal on them.
Aug 25 22:19:09 <Ikyo> http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/
Aug 25 22:19:28 <Ikyo> the new add is funny as hell
Aug 25 22:19:30 <HattCzech> hmmm, i will consider that... but i need a new job first :) hehehe
Aug 25 22:20:14 <HattCzech> if only i could sit at home all day and program for the pre... ahhhh, that would be nice
Aug 25 22:22:40 <Templarian> Ikyo: they've started copying and pasting the scripts from the old ones.
Aug 25 22:23:04 <en0x>  http://fukung.net/v/11284/sysadmin.jpg
Aug 25 22:23:10 <en0x> did u notice the freebsd book?
Aug 25 22:23:11 <en0x> :>
Aug 25 22:25:20 <gkatsev> anyway, leaving work now
Aug 25 22:25:21 <gkatsev> ttyl
Aug 25 22:27:59 <Dogy> Hi
Aug 25 22:28:02 <Templarian> en0x: freebsd nice.
Aug 25 22:28:06 <Dogy> Still me
Aug 25 22:28:26 <Dogy> I'm accessing the root files of palm (emulator) using Telnet
Aug 25 22:28:31 <Dogy> Putty
Aug 25 22:28:43 <Dogy> Can it be done in explorer window mode?
Aug 25 22:29:14 <Templarian> Dogy: nope.
Aug 25 22:29:31 <Templarian> I think there are viewers out there though.
Aug 25 22:30:42 <Ikyo> Does anyone know off the top of their head which CSS entry the browser uses to show the URL/Title?
Aug 25 22:30:53 <Dogy> So How can I copy files into it?
Aug 25 22:30:59 <Dogy> I got folders to copy
Aug 25 22:31:08 <Dogy> that located in my desktop
Aug 25 22:31:11 <Dogy> how to do that?
Aug 25 22:32:26 <rwhitby> Dogy: do you ever read manuals at all?
Aug 25 22:32:42 <rwhitby> or wiki pages?
Aug 25 22:33:56 <rwhitby> seriously, mate.  there's a fixed limit on the patience of people here with people who come in asking questions that are already answered on the wiki - you're nearing that limit.
Aug 25 22:34:27 <Dogy> yes
Aug 25 22:34:28 <Dogy> I did
Aug 25 22:34:58 <Dogy> didnt find anything about that
Aug 25 22:34:59 <destinal> Dogy: look into installing optware and then use winscp or something to connect in
Aug 25 22:35:13 <rwhitby> copying files to the pre is covered in the wiki, and also on a number of PreCentral forum threads.
Aug 25 22:35:15 <destinal> after you have dropbear or another ssh daemon installed to allow that
Aug 25 22:35:46 <rwhitby> Dogy: which search terms did you use on the wiki to try and find the pages?
Aug 25 22:36:16 <Templarian> (to transfer files with putty http://www.ehow.com/how_2036708_transfer-files-ssh.html simple google search)
Aug 25 22:36:42 <Dogy> Copy files into palm pre
Aug 25 22:37:49 <Dogy> Ok,
Aug 25 22:37:56 <Dogy> So better use putty?
Aug 25 22:38:21 <Templarian> (or winscp (i think it has a folder view))
Aug 25 22:43:21 <Dogy> which version of putty is in Graphic mode?
Aug 25 22:45:19 <destinal> Dogy: I think you misunderstand what putty does.  Putty is a terminal program and by its nature will give you a text mode terminal session to another system, in this case over ssh.
Aug 25 22:46:08 <destinal> putty isn't doing anything with the files on the pre.  the pre's shell itself lets you do that and putty is just what is used to relay your keystrokes and display the text that the pre is sending back to you
Aug 25 22:46:53 <Dogy> ok
Aug 25 22:47:52 <destinal> so you need some other program that's designed to copy files to / from  and manipulate files on a remote system over a network.   since the service the pre is running is ssh/scp, the program you want for that is an SCP or SFTP program such as WinSCP
Aug 25 22:48:13 <destinal> I would recommend some searches for those programs and reading their documentation to understand how they work
Aug 25 22:50:52 <HattCzech> when you subscribe to a service (Mojo.Service.Request(...)), how do you unsubscribe?
Aug 25 22:52:01 <Dogy> Tried to connect using WinSCP localhost port: 5522 file Protocol SFTP and getting conection refuse
Aug 25 22:53:47 <Dogy> ?
Aug 25 22:54:10 <Templarian> I believe that should connect to the emulator (not sure haven't had a need yet)
Aug 25 22:54:56 <Dogy> yes in putty it does
Aug 25 22:54:59 <Dogy> what u use?
Aug 25 22:58:05 <Dogy> ?
Aug 25 22:58:57 <Dogy> ?
Aug 25 23:00:01 <Dogy> Templarian?
Aug 25 23:07:44 <Dogy> Templarian?
Aug 25 23:08:59 <Templarian> Sorry, distracted to doing python stuff. not sure I don't have winscp installed at the moment.
Aug 25 23:09:14 <Templarian> s/distracted to/distracted
Aug 25 23:13:28 <HattCzech> how do i list what processes are running on my pre?
Aug 25 23:13:36 <HattCzech> ps ...?
Aug 25 23:13:59 <en0x> ps aux
Aug 25 23:14:21 <HattCzech> thanks
Aug 25 23:17:34 <HattCzech> hmmm... is there a luna-send command for it as well?
Aug 25 23:17:42 <HattCzech> i remember seeing something a bit easier to read
Aug 25 23:18:11 <HattCzech> ahah!
Aug 25 23:18:35 <HattCzech> luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/running {}
Aug 25 23:18:40 <HattCzech> in case anyone cares
Aug 25 23:20:31 <HattCzech> if you have no scenes open, will an app automatically close?
Aug 25 23:27:24 <AnOutsider> *sniff sniff*
Aug 25 23:27:27 <AnOutsider> I smell a help vampire
Aug 25 23:27:51 <HattCzech> ...?
Aug 25 23:29:17 <AnOutsider> http://slash7.com/pages/vampires
Aug 25 23:32:02 <HattCzech> hehehe
Aug 25 23:33:04 <HattCzech> from what i can tell, the app dies when no scenes exist... can anyone confirm that for me? (is that a bit better, AnOutsider?)
Aug 25 23:37:46 <rwhitby> infobot: vampire is a Help Vampire, nicely described at http://slash7.com/pages/vampires
Aug 25 23:37:47 <infobot> rwhitby: okay
Aug 25 23:38:11 <HattCzech> SWEET JESUS! RAIN!!!
Aug 25 23:38:57 <rwhitby> HattCzech: want some from here?  Raining all day yesterday.
Aug 25 23:39:40 <Ikyo> hopefully Jackie will get back soon....
Aug 25 23:39:45 <HattCzech> i'll take it from wherever i can get it... we're under water conservation right now...
Aug 25 23:40:05 <HattCzech> it's so bad that restaurants aren't supposed to serve you water unless you ask for it...
Aug 25 23:54:04 <destinal> Dogy: there's a problem with connecting to 5522 on localhost via WinSCP
Aug 25 23:54:08 <destinal> it doesn't work
Aug 25 23:54:54 <destinal> WinSCP is somehow unaware of the port forwarding done by VirtualBox and sees instead what would be there if the port forwarding was not there
Aug 25 23:55:03 <destinal> which would be connection refused
Aug 25 23:55:27 <destinal> sorry, I don't know a good answer for the emulator.  For a pre, it would be fine
Aug 25 23:56:32 <atlanta> hello
Aug 25 23:56:44 * destinal has to drive home now
Aug 25 23:56:47 <destinal> bbl
Aug 25 23:56:49 <atlanta> for the mojo documentation
Aug 26 00:25:30 <AnOutsider> HattCzech; I didnt mean you haha
Aug 26 00:25:36 <AnOutsider> sorry about that
Aug 26 00:26:17 <AnOutsider> as for the emulator, I got winscp to work by installign the optware packages I think
Aug 26 00:26:27 <AnOutsider> and connecting to the ip loopback
Aug 26 00:26:28 <AnOutsider> 127
Aug 26 00:44:28 <AnOutsider> oh what a difference glasses makes
Aug 26 00:50:48 <oil> lol
Aug 26 01:17:15 <kesne> Just updated the homebrew checkers :)
Aug 26 01:21:42 <Ikyo> Jackie needs to get on here
Aug 26 01:40:55 <Ikyo> rwhitby: you there?
Aug 26 01:45:54 <rwhitby> Ikyo: yep
Aug 26 01:58:30 <bsdbandit> hey guys hows eveeything going
Aug 26 01:58:41 <atlanta> bsdbandit: marvelous
Aug 26 01:58:42 <atlanta> you
Aug 26 01:58:47 <bsdbandit> im doing fine
Aug 26 01:58:50 <Ikyo> anyone using the clipcarl cpu scaling?
Aug 26 01:58:59 <bsdbandit> working on  my first app for the pre
Aug 26 01:59:10 <bsdbandit> i bought the palm webos book
Aug 26 01:59:19 <bsdbandit> so im reading through that right now
Aug 26 01:59:24 <bsdbandit> and learning
Aug 26 02:00:21 <atlanta> bsdbandit: electronic copy?
Aug 26 02:04:00 * destinal has dead tree version also
Aug 26 02:04:14 <destinal> it's good to have both because you can't grep dead trees
Aug 26 02:13:16 <bsdbandit> no
Aug 26 02:13:21 <bsdbandit> the bought the book
Aug 26 02:13:22 <rwhitby> Any Java experts in the channel?  I have a Java service running on the Pre, and i want to log output generated inside the Java code somehow.
Aug 26 02:13:37 <bsdbandit> trying to support the pre development movement
Aug 26 02:13:39 <rwhitby> e.g. like a kprintf in the kernel
Aug 26 02:14:06 <rwhitby> I know how to do it for javascript webos apps - I'm talking about advanced java services
Aug 26 02:17:14 <destinal> rwhitby: you could probably run the java app foreground and write to stderr
Aug 26 02:17:31 <destinal> just initctl stop the helper service and then run its command line by hand perhaps
Aug 26 02:17:37 <rwhitby> destinal: ah, good idea
Aug 26 02:17:58 <Ikyo> that is the way I got my errors from the sysmgr
Aug 26 02:20:24 <Ikyo> Anyone running cpuspeed?
Aug 26 02:30:27 <rwhitby> destinal: hmm java-serviceboot listens on port 8083 for some reason, and has a  -Xwebconsole command line arg ...
Aug 26 02:30:34 <destinal> ooh
Aug 26 02:30:37 <destinal> that's interesting
Aug 26 02:31:00 <destinal> maybe they wanted to debug them too
Aug 26 02:31:08 <destinal> where they = palm folks
Aug 26 02:31:59 <rwhitby> <title>VM Heap Internals</title>
Aug 26 02:32:19 <destinal> ooh
Aug 26 02:33:08 <rwhitby> wget http://localhost:8083/threads is a nice thread list with stack traces
Aug 26 02:34:24 <rwhitby> and my service show up as ASLEEP
Aug 26 02:34:30 <AnOutsider> hey guys... does this feel liek a green overload? http://www.prethemer.com/
Aug 26 02:35:54 <Ikyo> yes
Aug 26 02:36:09 <AnOutsider> haha thought so
Aug 26 02:36:16 <AnOutsider> cant find amny colors to balance in there
Aug 26 02:36:18 <oil> only because each screenshot has lots of green
Aug 26 02:36:54 <oil> swap out the screenshots with something less green, and it will overall feel less greeny
Aug 26 02:36:57 <AnOutsider> fair point, I could try with something else
Aug 26 02:37:02 <AnOutsider> only dummy content anywho
Aug 26 02:37:12 <oil> i figured
Aug 26 02:37:35 <rwhitby> I personally wouldn't give that top middle theme four stars ...
Aug 26 02:37:50 <AnOutsider> heh
Aug 26 02:45:48 <rwhitby> do we know what jvm palm is using?
Aug 26 02:49:09 <rwhitby> Oasis-Linux-WebConsole-LightLocks-Generational-GCC_Goto_Optimizations-SingleSlot
Aug 26 02:49:09 <rwhitby> Copyright 2005, Iventor, Inc. All Rights Reserved
Aug 26 02:51:03 <Ikyo> well crap, think I locked my phone up
Aug 26 02:51:14 <AnOutsider> dr to the rescue?
Aug 26 02:51:25 <rwhitby> iventor mentioned in http://www.pikesoft.com/blog/index.php?itemid=196
Aug 26 02:51:38 <Ikyo> Not sure yet....it is just setting showing the palm logo.  It hasn't booted past that.
Aug 26 02:51:51 <AnOutsider> someoen had a similar issue and a hard reset fixed it
Aug 26 02:52:55 <rwhitby> destinal: any idea where we can get a public legit copy of the Foleo OS ?
Aug 26 02:53:23 <rwhitby> destinal: cause I reckon it might use the same graphics backend based on that article
Aug 26 02:56:21 <destinal> hmm
Aug 26 02:56:49 <kesne_> Can you guys beta my app and rate it: http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/checkers
Aug 26 02:57:14 <Ikyo> I pulled the battery out and let it set for a few minutes.  Read a couple of posts that said let it set.  I will wait and see what happens.
Aug 26 02:57:35 * oil rates it 1
Aug 26 02:57:36 <oil> xD
Aug 26 02:57:42 <kesne_> Haha
Aug 26 02:57:56 <kesne_> People actually do that
Aug 26 02:58:02 <kesne_> The app is nice though
Aug 26 02:58:05 <kesne_> just had some updates
Aug 26 02:58:08 <kesne_> some nice ones
Aug 26 02:58:18 <kesne_> it's the same version as the one I submitted to palm
Aug 26 02:59:32 <destinal> rwhitby: no idea where to get one but that's interesting
Aug 26 02:59:38 <destinal> there are some similarities, that's for sure
Aug 26 02:59:43 <destinal> a lot of differences also
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 26 02:59:57 2009