**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 03 02:59:57 2009 Sep 03 03:00:15 zsoc: if you do, just let me know :-) Sep 03 03:00:29 lol will do rod. maybe for once i'd ding you for something important ;) Sep 03 03:00:31 zsoc: no, there is no uninstall target in the makefiles for optware Sep 03 03:00:49 Ok thanks :) Sep 03 03:01:39 I want to try to restage the gstreamer libs. I feel like even tho it ended up working, it build using existing libs in my local environment. I also want to pipe the output of the make into a file this time so I can see what happened. Sep 03 03:02:30 * zsoc wonders if there's a good way to test, or check, libraries to see if they are compatible with the correct arc. Sep 03 03:06:05 If this doesn't work, I think I'm going to try to set up a scratchbox environment. No offense to you rod, your little optware doohicky is really nifty, but it seems gstreamer has built in configure options for ARM compiling with scratchbox. Sep 03 03:06:10 er, and glib Sep 03 03:07:04 zsoc: sure, go for it. no offense taken. use the right tool for the job. Sep 03 03:07:31 if you can teach me how to use scratchbox in return that would be good too - I could never get it to work. Sep 03 03:08:39 What are you wanting to get the messaging app to do? Sep 03 03:09:03 rwhitby, Oh, well that isn't promising. Er, if indeed i do get it sorted out, it will probably be on my Ubuntu box. And only because there are a number of tutorials with the idea, literally, of "using scratchbox and a toolchain to compile for armel" :P Sep 03 03:09:39 er.. armel is ok, right? Sep 03 03:09:48 yep Sep 03 03:09:52 assumed :) Sep 03 03:11:26 anyone want to take a crack at a bug that I can not get figured out? Sep 03 03:11:26 Hm. That new nokia everyone is fussing about seems to be based on maemo. that's nifty. Sep 03 03:13:58 * zsoc feels an emdebian coming on Sep 03 03:17:10 This is ridiculous question. Will building on the pre become a feasible option? Does the optware repo have the necessary packages available to compile? Just seems like not a terrible option. Sep 03 03:17:34 Always a debian chroot i suppose. I just sense it would be so terribly slow I'd want to murder myself. Sep 03 03:17:49 zsoc: optware can do it, but you run out of space unless you repartition. Sep 03 03:18:13 Right. I forgot about that. Sep 03 03:18:20 Templarian: the code completion isnt working for me Sep 03 03:18:25 Hm.. well that's not really a terrible problem. It should be simple enough really. Sep 03 03:18:29 * zsoc ponders Sep 03 03:18:43 atlanta: hmm, is it checked in the preference panel? Sep 03 03:18:50 yea has a check mark Sep 03 03:18:54 im in a .js file Sep 03 03:18:59 and it says no code completeion Sep 03 03:19:00 at the botto Sep 03 03:19:23 Type "Mojo." Sep 03 03:20:07 give a little error message on botton Sep 03 03:20:10 bottom Sep 03 03:20:20 Did it work before? Sep 03 03:20:23 evaluating "mojo" Sep 03 03:20:32 nope on a fresh new install Sep 03 03:20:33 Captital M Sep 03 03:20:49 lol didnt know it was so anal Sep 03 03:20:50 lol Sep 03 03:20:59 Javascript is case sensitive. Sep 03 03:21:02 * rwhitby bbl Sep 03 03:21:02 Is --disable-static a pretty common option for a configure file? Just curious as to what it does. Sep 03 03:21:15 Templarian: oh lala slipped my mind Sep 03 03:21:16 yea Sep 03 03:21:18 that worked Sep 03 03:21:36 ill change that in the wiki Sep 03 03:21:40 because theme Sep 03 03:21:44 didnt work at all Sep 03 03:21:48 atlanta: is does work Sep 03 03:21:54 atlanta: look where it's placed. Sep 03 03:22:12 inside the function Sep 03 03:22:19 * atlanta hits himself Sep 03 03:23:02 Templarian: im a komodo newb any key combo to bring the completion up Sep 03 03:23:06 Komodo has a pretty nice parser. Guys. Komodo 5.2 fixes a ton of bugs that a few of you guys noticed. Should be a good patch. Sep 03 03:23:10 after you have typed and it goes away Sep 03 03:24:10 There might not sure, I tend to just type strait through hitting enter. Sep 03 03:24:33 gotcha Sep 03 03:24:36 5.2 is out Sep 03 03:24:36 ? Sep 03 03:24:54 JackieRipper: I based my interpretation of the locking behavior on sqlite on behavior from older versions, not sqlite3. Sorry for inadvertently maligning nagger. Sep 03 03:25:00 JackieRipper: I removed the warning Sep 03 03:25:06 Nope, but I talk to the devs about it, and view the bug reports. Sep 03 03:25:17 It shouldn't be too much longer I don't think. Sep 03 03:25:18 oh o k Sep 03 03:25:34 gnite. tired. Sep 03 03:26:09 nigth Sep 03 03:26:45 peace out yo Sep 03 03:27:56 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/PreCentral << for those that wanted to show their support. Sep 03 03:28:55 JackieRipper: I do still think a mojo SMS event listener and alerter would be a superior solution to the problem (and realtime) Sep 03 03:35:30 zsoc: a debian chroot is not slow, I build on the pre. Sep 03 03:36:03 destinal, Hm.. anything special i should know if i want to set one up, or limitations? Sep 03 03:36:17 I set it up according to this: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Debian Sep 03 03:36:31 and then apt-get update; apt-get upgrade; apt-get install build-essential Sep 03 03:36:36 Another options. I like options. Sep 03 03:36:46 Oh, I'll need a little more than build-essential for what I'm doing, heh Sep 03 03:36:52 Thank you. Sep 03 03:36:59 well ok, but that worked to build termplugin Sep 03 03:37:17 also having a loop-mounted image avoids the /opt size issues Sep 03 03:37:23 Luckily enough I'm relatively familiar with debian in general. I should feel slightly less lost in that environment. Sep 03 03:37:26 though you could always repartition Sep 03 03:37:37 How reliable is a loop-mounted image? Sep 03 03:37:48 zsoc: very reliable, in my experience Sep 03 03:38:00 I've never had any issue Sep 03 03:38:09 Hm. I may ask you a question or two if i run into trouble setting it up :) Sep 03 03:38:31 cool Sep 03 03:38:52 cool? really? wow. thanks :D most people cringe lol Sep 03 03:39:12 hehe Sep 03 03:39:53 so now, back to try more reverse engineering :P Sep 03 03:40:10 at least I'm learning Sep 03 03:40:21 destinal, you serious? what are you reversing? Sep 03 03:40:27 zsoc: hidd Sep 03 03:40:34 and its plugin architecture specifically Sep 03 03:40:52 ah.. sounds familiar. gstreamer plugins suck equally i imagine. Sep 03 03:41:06 hidd is what talks to the various input device hw Sep 03 03:41:20 keyboard, touchscreen, accelerometer, proximity sensor, ambient light sensor Sep 03 03:41:28 Oh. I thought it was just bluetooth. clearly i have a lot to learn Sep 03 03:41:31 destinal: I almost get dfb run on luna, only some drawing buffer memcpy issues Sep 03 03:41:39 And there's no source code released on hidd.. at all? by palm? Sep 03 03:41:45 yeah it's not related to bt/usb HID at all Sep 03 03:42:01 zsoc: nah, palm has only released stuff they've been obligated to release Sep 03 03:42:04 and then not completely Sep 03 03:42:34 hidd is totally palm-developed, thus proprietary Sep 03 03:42:44 tell me about it, their release of the camsrc source is hardly 'complete' i've found :P Sep 03 03:43:07 how much of it is 'readable'? I mean I'd imagine only the plugins are binary right? Sep 03 03:43:24 zsoc: hidd is a c binary, as are the .so plugins Sep 03 03:43:32 there's a config file in text Sep 03 03:43:48 That. really, _really_ sucks. Have you gotten *anywhere* with it at all? Sep 03 03:44:38 zsoc: well, I've figured out that plugins are very very simple which is good, and that they export one symbol, let me check, I think it's PluginTable() IIRC, that returns something I think is a struct of a callback table Sep 03 03:44:48 destinal: luna use argb or rgba? Sep 03 03:44:54 ameng: RGBA Sep 03 03:45:03 oh ,shit Sep 03 03:45:07 destinal, That's a lot of info :) dbusing things to death are we ? ;) Sep 03 03:45:18 zsoc: nah, more IDA pro Sep 03 03:45:44 * zsoc buys destinal this tshirt -> http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/itdepartment/31fc/ Sep 03 03:46:00 my god, i copy argb surface Sep 03 03:46:11 ameng: that could explain some issues :) Sep 03 03:46:19 If you become an IDA pro guru, you would be the winrar indeed :) Sep 03 03:46:27 destinal: I agree Sep 03 03:46:33 probably it will work soon Sep 03 03:47:05 destinal: to my knowledge, sqlite never locked on SELECT Sep 03 03:47:33 IIRC 1.x used .lock files, but maybe I misremember Sep 03 03:47:49 for writes Sep 03 03:48:34 Crap. my lazyness bites me in the butt. I just realized I can't send a 500mb file over ssh. must get up for a cable :( I really need to invest in an additional micro usb cable for development purposes Sep 03 03:48:54 * zsoc wonders if 500mb is large enough for a debian chroot... Sep 03 03:49:03 zsoc: the article has a resize command Sep 03 03:49:10 it takes a while but you can make it whatever Sep 03 03:49:24 I know :) I was just wondering if it was large enough for what I need, I don't want to go overboard Sep 03 03:49:28 I don't suppose glib is included? Sep 03 03:49:46 zsoc: if not, it's just an apt-get install away Sep 03 03:50:17 ridiculous question I suppose.. apt installs versions of the packages consistant with arm codex? Sep 03 03:50:25 er, cortex Sep 03 03:50:39 JackieRipper: at any rate, very sorry for getting it wrong. I should have validated rather than just going off jet's report of findings related to the log messages he mentioned Sep 03 03:50:51 no worries Sep 03 03:51:04 I've been woking on a mojo app that does the same thing Sep 03 03:51:18 seeing as how subscribe does exactly what I need Sep 03 03:51:47 JackieRipper: I was thinking about that, subscribing should be really low overhead and then you could set a 1 minute wakeup event each time the victim fails to respond Sep 03 03:51:51 err s/victim/user/ Sep 03 03:52:06 or leave it configuarable Sep 03 03:52:10 *nods8 Sep 03 03:52:44 of course you lose LED's unless you use something like LEDservice Sep 03 03:52:46 the guts of that script were written long before the sdk was released Sep 03 03:53:06 I personally wouldn't use them but someone may Sep 03 03:53:20 The LED stuff was added later Sep 03 03:53:23 destinal, sorry to keep you from your work, but i should assume apt in this case would be installing packages consistent with arm ? Sep 03 03:53:41 I don't use them myself, but they're cool for those who like that sort of thing Sep 03 03:53:43 zsoc: yeah, it's all on the standard debian armel repos, I've tested it and it works Sep 03 03:53:57 there are 'standard debian armel' repos? that's amazing. Sep 03 03:54:12 yep Sep 03 03:54:19 debian really is quite incredible, just as a generalized statement. Maybe I'm still too new to foss to really get the depth of the available environments Sep 03 03:54:48 I take credit for being involved in making that happen, through the NSLU2 project having Debian ported to it. Sep 03 03:55:11 rwhitby, you are officially the man. I hope when I'm 142 I have similar accomplishments ;) Sep 03 03:55:33 rwhitby: nice, I didn't realize it was another spinoff of the nslu2-linux efforts Sep 03 03:56:11 zsoc: NSLU2 is what made Debian armel the third most popular architecture in Debian Sep 03 03:56:22 (measured through popcon stats) Sep 03 03:56:39 Seriously, as somewhat of a budding linux developer, this is possibly the best environment available. I've learned more in the last 4 days than in years of "tinkering". Sep 03 03:56:49 You guys are like linux gods ;) Sep 03 03:57:31 If I actually get this working, your names are going on it before mine, if i put mine on it at all. Sep 03 03:57:36 zsoc: we all have different areas and I think each of us is still significantly learning (a bonus of being involved) :) Sep 03 03:58:03 Joey Hess and Martin Michalmyer are the guys who did the Debian port, based on kernel patches and other techniques and assistance from nslu2-linux.org Sep 03 03:58:30 I certainly don't consider myself a linux god, but I'm learning tons of new stuff all the time Sep 03 03:58:49 even though I've *used* linux for 15 years Sep 03 03:58:50 and rwhitby looked down on the pre and said it was good Sep 03 03:59:14 destinal, That's true too. My past travels in involved working on compiz projects (mostly debugging and fielding user questions more than development), and from there also work on ubuntu video drivers, ati mostly. What I've found is there are many people who know what they know. And each know different things important to the overall efforts. Sep 03 03:59:17 I'm the kernel maintainer for the nslu2 machine, but haven't needed to do anything since it was eventually accepted in full. Sep 03 03:59:51 that's the good thing about the kernel - once you get a machine accepted, everyone else has to keep it up to date as they make changes to the APIs. Sep 03 03:59:57 Anyone want to test/look at some postinst/prerm scripts for me? Sep 03 04:01:05 rwhitby, What's the most impressive thing you've seen on the nslu2, or the most practical thing you've seen it used for since development? Sep 03 04:01:37 zsoc: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Info/WhatPeopleAreReallyUsingTheirSlugsFor Sep 03 04:02:09 lol, clearly that page was instantly created once i asked my question :P Sep 03 04:03:36 and is really large D: Sep 03 04:09:45 I wonder how much of this development work is going to be compatible with nextgen webos devices Sep 03 04:09:53 I mean, within 6 months we could have 3 more. Sep 03 04:13:15 novacom put is nifty Sep 03 04:13:20 i only wish it was slightly more verbose Sep 03 04:18:31 zsoc: probably most of it will be Sep 03 04:19:02 I don't expect palm to go out of their way to keep things similar, but it would be nice :P Sep 03 04:19:14 zsoc: the hardware will of course change, but we already have two very very different devices (emulator = x86 and castle = ARM (pre) Sep 03 04:19:44 destinal: can you wait me some time ? i have to go lunch with my friends. The only thing get dfb run on luna is convert argb pixel to rgba one. i'll back half an hour later Sep 03 04:19:57 ameng: I'll be around Sep 03 04:20:10 ameng: just ping me when you get back Sep 03 04:20:57 You make a good point about the emu Sep 03 04:21:17 Hm... novacom put does take quite some time.. i suppose it's my lack of usb 2.0 support Sep 03 04:21:21 zsoc: there are some notable differences Sep 03 04:21:25 zsoc: nothing huge though Sep 03 04:21:37 the architecture i'd imagine is the biggest thing Sep 03 04:21:39 zsoc: hidd plugins, audio and bluetooth of course Sep 03 04:21:46 and cam lol Sep 03 04:22:05 yeah, and simulator services added for testing stuff Sep 03 04:22:06 Here's a question. There's a gstreamer plugin for the camera called gstcamsrc.so, is there a similar plugin for hidd? Sep 03 04:22:38 nah, the camera isn't exactly "input" in the way hidd means Sep 03 04:22:47 Right, human interface, got it. Sep 03 04:23:28 keyboard, touchscreen, accelerometer, proximity sensor, ambient light sensor Sep 03 04:23:31 and I'm not sure what else Sep 03 04:23:33 are default Sep 03 04:23:35 hey how does the try catch go Sep 03 04:23:36 ? Sep 03 04:24:09 You know, I'm probably too lazy and shouldn't even be asking this question... the camera application has to be open source right, being an app and all? Sep 03 04:24:31 zsoc: well, readable source, yeah Sep 03 04:25:09 but some of it is in plugins I think Sep 03 04:25:12 which are not Sep 03 04:25:38 Hm, I'm wondering how it gets the 'preview' to work. There's no support for any of the "default" ways you generally get gstreamer to sink to a gui Sep 03 04:25:39 and the stuff that calls the actual picture taking is in a service Sep 03 04:26:00 zsoc: it's probably in the media plugin Sep 03 04:26:03 A big leap for any 'camcorder' app would be to mimic the 'preview' ability going on in the camera app Sep 03 04:26:27 Probably. I don't understand why they don't release some of this stuff. It's not like someone's going to steal it and use it on another arm devi...c.. e.. oh. I guess maybe. Sep 03 04:26:28 since that plugin does streaming video, it's not a stretch to stream it camera video Sep 03 04:26:43 In other words, use the same plugin? :P Sep 03 04:27:13 well the actual recording would need to be done in a service I imagine Sep 03 04:27:21 It's tough to modify something you don't have the source to, hehe Sep 03 04:27:25 calling gstreamer with the right sources/sinks Sep 03 04:27:39 that's actually quite simple Sep 03 04:27:56 right, I know they've got that working on the wiki page Sep 03 04:28:02 including muxing in audio, etc Sep 03 04:28:20 well not the service, but a command line Sep 03 04:28:27 im just really ITCHINGLY curious about how they got the preview to work properly. There's no gstreamer element to sink it to. Sep 03 04:28:41 It's a super gstreamer hack. Sep 03 04:28:55 zsoc: well how do they play streaming movies? Sep 03 04:29:07 any1 familiar with lighttpd install on pre? Sep 03 04:29:16 Right, same exact thing isn't it. Sep 03 04:29:24 zsoc: yeah, I believe so Sep 03 04:29:28 having problems viewing php files Sep 03 04:29:28 Anyone know how that works? :P it's like evil magic. Sep 03 04:29:43 zsoc: it's probably the Browser Plugin Sep 03 04:30:22 To my knowledge, gstreamer has to sink to an element. I really don't know of it being implemented any other way. And there's no plugins in the gstreamer tree that seem to answer that question. Maybe I'm over complicating it. Sep 03 04:30:42 better yet anyone know how to log onto the pre through a non-novaterm? Sep 03 04:30:45 i hate novaterm Sep 03 04:30:48 can't copy and paste anything Sep 03 04:30:51 What's novaterm? Sep 03 04:30:58 novacom terminal Sep 03 04:31:06 Oh. What's wrong with that? Sep 03 04:31:06 i am usb connected to my computer Sep 03 04:31:06 AZero: just install optware and dropbear Sep 03 04:31:12 Yeah, ssh. Sep 03 04:31:13 and usbnet Sep 03 04:31:39 im on windows xp, that stuff for winxp? Sep 03 04:32:07 AZero: it's all on the pre Sep 03 04:32:14 Huh. Why didn't I think of that. dropbear + usbnet = ssh over usb. Sep 03 04:32:16 ok how do i access it on my computer? Sep 03 04:32:27 AZero: have you checked out the wiki Sep 03 04:32:48 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps Sep 03 04:33:05 specifically the optware-bootstrap script to install optware Sep 03 04:33:07 i saw this, this is for the emulator Sep 03 04:33:15 nope Sep 03 04:33:16 and i already installed optware to my pre Sep 03 04:33:32 i just want a console system on windows XP that I can use to log in to it via usb Sep 03 04:33:40 would love to copy and paste Sep 03 04:33:47 USBNET Sep 03 04:33:48 is that what usbnet is about? Sep 03 04:33:55 ok Sep 03 04:33:56 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/USBnet_Setup Sep 03 04:34:09 just "usbnet enable" on the pre Sep 03 04:34:16 then reboot the pre Sep 03 04:34:20 destinal, chroot: cannot execute /bin/sh: Input/output error <-- that's interesting Sep 03 04:34:31 then you need the XP usbnet driver on that page Sep 03 04:35:05 zsoc: that's odd. Sep 03 04:35:16 destinal, is it me, or is that a _really vague_ error? Sep 03 04:35:35 it's a result of "/usr/sbin/chroot /media/cf" Sep 03 04:35:39 with quilt is there a way to remove a file that is being watched so it no longer patches? Sep 03 04:36:19 zsoc: do you have a /media/cf/bin/sh ? Sep 03 04:40:32 wow, not a lot on this server I guess Sep 03 04:40:50 wow, just my server netsplit away, it seems Sep 03 04:41:14 hmm Sep 03 04:41:21 * nebula -> bed Sep 03 04:43:32 lol Sep 03 04:43:37 Did everyone else just drop out or was that just me Sep 03 04:43:45 just you Sep 03 04:43:48 netsplit :) Sep 03 04:44:14 destinal, you get my frustrated / complaining i/o chrooting error woes? Sep 03 04:44:27 My IRC client said everyone had disconnected instead of saying just I did Sep 03 04:44:36 k4p741nkrunch, just a netsplit, everything is cool. Sep 03 04:44:41 k4p741nkrunch: thats a netsplit Sep 03 04:45:38 you guys are spoiling all the fun we could have had with him Sep 03 04:45:59 oil: sorry? Sep 03 04:46:03 lol Sep 03 04:46:21 k4p741nkrunch: ignore what we said, we was lying Sep 03 04:46:25 oil: he's all yours Sep 03 04:46:29 lol Sep 03 04:46:34 its over now Sep 03 04:46:39 I AM NOT A PIECE OF MEAT TO YOU OIL Sep 03 04:46:57 oil, it seemed mean :/ sorry, i'll let it go next time Sep 03 04:47:03 lol Sep 03 04:47:13 oil, know any reason a chroot could give an i/o error? seems vague to me. Sep 03 04:47:16 Haha jk all good fun, back to development! Sep 03 04:47:33 zsoc: no? Sep 03 04:47:37 ok then :) Sep 03 04:47:59 zsoc: I was asking you if you had /media/cf/bin/sh before the split Sep 03 04:48:57 indeed no bin, just an sbin Sep 03 04:50:03 clearly i'm missing something here. this should be obvious Sep 03 04:50:35 shouldn't it be /media/cf/usr/bin? Sep 03 04:52:58 Hm, Sargun. I would hate to bother you. You seem like you may be just the man for the job tho. Sep 03 04:52:58 Do I now? Sep 03 04:53:49 Sargun, little i/o error problem chrooting debian ^_^ Sep 03 04:53:59 ah, ack! Sep 03 04:54:29 That sounds bad! lol, should i just leave? :P Sep 03 04:56:09 Can you pastebin the specific error? Sep 03 04:56:12 As destinal expected, it seems because i have no /media/cf/bin, although the rest of the tree seems to be good Sep 03 04:56:26 zsoc: weirdness Sep 03 04:56:44 one usually expects all or nothing with something like that Sep 03 04:56:56 Not enough to pastebin really, I input "/usr/sbin/chroot /media/cf", it outputs "chroot: cannot execute /bin/sh: Input/output error" Sep 03 04:57:29 destinal, yeah it's odd the entire filesystem would be intact, and just missing /bin :P Sep 03 04:58:48 and now i can't umount Sep 03 04:59:11 oh whoops. wrong order. umount worked. Sep 03 05:02:22 Ok. the version of the img on my pre is 49k smaller than my local version. that can't be right no? Sep 03 05:09:45 zsoc: yeah, that can't be right Sep 03 05:10:08 I'd also loop-mount locally just to make sure it's fine on your workstation Sep 03 05:10:14 good idea Sep 03 05:10:38 don't forget mount ro or unmount before copy Sep 03 05:11:16 yep, there's a bin when i mount local Sep 03 05:11:19 that's hysterical Sep 03 05:11:25 it was missing 49k Sep 03 05:11:37 lol, bin must be on the end i guess Sep 03 05:11:39 apparently the *first* 49k lol Sep 03 05:11:43 or beginning Sep 03 05:11:48 either way, just odd Sep 03 05:12:00 may have gotten cut off during the begining of the put process some how Sep 03 05:12:06 * zsoc wonders if he just found a novacom bug Sep 03 05:12:08 I'd advise scp Sep 03 05:12:23 novacom may not do much to ensure integrity Sep 03 05:12:23 scp? evdo? kidding? Sep 03 05:12:29 no, over usbnet, silly Sep 03 05:12:50 ooohhh. i never really bothered with usbnet because all has been well over here. i haven't had to move any 500mb files :P Sep 03 05:13:16 it can be nice to have an ethernet workalike to your pre Sep 03 05:13:25 i can only imagine. Sep 03 05:13:45 just "usbnet enable; reboot" and you can do more than imagine :) Sep 03 05:15:04 already there mate Sep 03 05:15:17 * zsoc wonders why usbnet is preconfigured on the pre... Sep 03 05:18:53 ok I dropped off Sep 03 05:18:54 odd Sep 03 05:19:15 hm Sep 03 05:19:19 I sent this last Sep 03 05:19:20 (11:13:45 PM) destinal: just "usbnet enable; reboot" and you can do more than imagine :) Sep 03 05:19:29 yeah i got that part, way ahead of ya ;) Sep 03 05:19:38 just wish NetworkManager wasn't crap, all of the time :P Sep 03 05:19:47 yeah, I hate it Sep 03 05:19:58 I usually just sudo ifconfig usb0 inet 192.168.0.2 Sep 03 05:20:55 I should probably find the config files and fix it manually because in the gui doesn't seem to persist long Sep 03 05:21:37 then 192.168.0.202 is your pre Sep 03 05:21:50 hm, still won't interface Sep 03 05:21:52 Hey guys, I'm trying to SFTP into my Pre using Cyberduck on OSX, but I can't seem to get in. I installed optware and followed these directions http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Setup_SFTP I don't know what else to do :p Sep 03 05:22:12 catalystmediastu, using ddns? Sep 03 05:22:26 I have no idea. How would I check that? Sep 03 05:22:35 then the answer is no i suppose Sep 03 05:22:43 catalystmediastu, you have the _current_ ip of your pre? Sep 03 05:23:08 I went to Checkmyip.com and got it from there. That's the one right? I'm connected through wi-fi if that matters Sep 03 05:23:10 destinal, my wifi network is on the same subnet, i wonder if that's an issue Sep 03 05:23:28 catalystmediastu, that matters quite a bit i believe. not the one to ask tho Sep 03 05:23:56 if you're connected through wifi tho, i'm guessing your router is probably blocking port 222 Sep 03 05:24:17 I'll try through evdo real quick then Sep 03 05:25:05 Okey dokey. Evdo works fine! Sep 03 05:25:15 I didn't think that'd be an issue. Thanks for the help! Sep 03 05:26:29 np Sep 03 05:28:35 destinal, hm.. doesn't work when i disable wifi either Sep 03 05:28:39 i'm just full of errors it seems :( Sep 03 05:28:56 zsoc: unplug and replug usb and check dmesg Sep 03 05:29:04 on the workstation Sep 03 05:29:11 you're a troubleshooting genius, really Sep 03 05:29:36 :) thanks, I have a lot of practice, I used to do tech support for a living for years back in the early 90's Sep 03 05:29:47 no errors Sep 03 05:29:59 detects as scsi removable drive, like normal Sep 03 05:30:06 hmm, should be more than that Sep 03 05:30:08 networkmanager trys to 'auto' connect away Sep 03 05:30:15 oh ok it does pop up Sep 03 05:30:27 so detects an interface coming online Sep 03 05:30:31 yep Sep 03 05:30:40 just can't connect. Sep 03 05:30:45 so wait for networkmanager to chill out Sep 03 05:30:56 not sure how local networking works in linux. networkmanager already disconnected. Sep 03 05:30:59 then when you're sure it is, ifconfig usb0 inet 192.168.0.202 Sep 03 05:31:09 err .2 Sep 03 05:31:23 then ping 202 Sep 03 05:31:28 (should be pre) Sep 03 05:31:49 looks good Sep 03 05:31:53 networkmanager is just a clown Sep 03 05:32:23 then try ssh, you may need to adjust your dropbear config to add usb0 iptables but maybe not Sep 03 05:33:00 no route Sep 03 05:33:09 ifconfig usb0 again Sep 03 05:33:20 just ifconfig usb0 by itself to see if it has an IP Sep 03 05:33:34 I've noticed networkmanager takes longer than you think to bail out and reset the int again Sep 03 05:34:03 er.. it would seem it does not have an ip Sep 03 05:34:16 yeah ifconfig usb0 inet 192.168.0.2 again Sep 03 05:34:20 then you should be fine Sep 03 05:34:25 gotcha Sep 03 05:34:26 it doesn't happen again until reconnection Sep 03 05:34:39 sometimes i'm a bit ahead of the game, lol. thanks for spelling it out tho :) helps us nobs. Sep 03 05:35:02 now i need to go look up some ssh syntax :P Sep 03 05:35:16 I figure it's easier to ignore detail you don't need than to guess(?) at detail you do need :) Sep 03 05:35:25 forgive me if I seem to talk down ever, don't mean to Sep 03 05:35:35 oh this is interesting Sep 03 05:35:38 am i still connected here? Sep 03 05:35:51 yeah Sep 03 05:35:55 ping? Sep 03 05:35:59 you're here Sep 03 05:36:17 pong, syn|ack etc Sep 03 05:36:37 ok strange. Sep 03 05:37:01 you can actually have two 192.168.0's I've noticed. strange and potentially problematic though it is Sep 03 05:37:09 sshing into my pre borked my wifi connection. i didn't get your reply till i exited ssh and reconnected. Sep 03 05:37:15 must have something to do with my subnetting Sep 03 05:37:21 yeah Sep 03 05:37:23 * zsoc goes to read about syntax to send files over ssh Sep 03 05:37:30 I'd renumber your LAN side Sep 03 05:37:42 probably easier than changing usbnet Sep 03 05:38:06 er, then clearly you're not familiar with my local network infrastructure ;) Sep 03 05:38:13 ah, well then maybe not Sep 03 05:38:31 ok this is interesting, did i drop again? Sep 03 05:38:40 you never dropped to me Sep 03 05:38:42 hm Sep 03 05:38:43 not even before Sep 03 05:38:51 tcp takes a bit to timeout Sep 03 05:38:56 tell me about it Sep 03 05:39:07 can't access any websites. Sep 03 05:39:29 fun anomalies. irc works, google doesn't, lol. Sep 03 05:39:42 well it's probably new connections that don't in that case Sep 03 05:40:12 you seem to be a bit of a network admin :) Sep 03 05:40:47 fixed the second i usb0 down 'd Sep 03 05:41:02 heh, yeah, professionally I've done network engineering, network design engineering, systems engineering, and currently information security and security architecture Sep 03 05:41:15 most people stick to one thing Sep 03 05:41:17 not me lol Sep 03 05:41:20 that sounds... cool ^_^ Sep 03 05:41:31 * zsoc reads man scp Sep 03 05:41:49 short man file Sep 03 05:42:51 yeah, in practice most of the flags you need are the same as cp, with the addition of ports (-P) and such Sep 03 05:43:37 and of course that source or dest can be user@host:file Sep 03 05:43:54 very smart Sep 03 05:53:19 zsoc: wow, fun with netsplits Sep 03 05:53:19 lol Sep 03 05:54:51 Oh that's interesting. I got a "no space left on device" Sep 03 05:55:22 copying to where? Sep 03 05:56:01 crap Sep 03 05:56:03 zsoc: also it's not too hard to change your pre's usbnet IP as it happens Sep 03 05:56:04 my home folder Sep 03 05:56:09 mount -o remount,rw /; cd /etc/network; mv interfaces interfaces.orig; cat interfaces.orig|sed 's/192.168.0./192.168.10./g' > interfaces Sep 03 05:56:12 yeah just the interfaces file Sep 03 05:56:16 yeah Sep 03 05:56:19 :) Sep 03 05:56:26 thanks for that nifty syntax tho ;) Sep 03 05:56:47 it's in the log now so maybe it'll help someone else too Sep 03 05:57:25 i like how you can take the output of a file, sed it, and use that adjusted output to rewrite it. i know it's simple bash but it really does tickle me Sep 03 05:57:30 %s in vi Sep 03 05:57:42 er, the 'user' home folder is limited in space i see, no? Sep 03 05:57:43 if there was a proper sed it would be a lot shorter Sep 03 05:57:51 this one is busybox Sep 03 05:57:55 ah Sep 03 05:58:17 zsoc: yeah, you should use /var Sep 03 05:58:32 or /media/internal if you don't mind it going away when you use mass storage mode Sep 03 05:58:34 * zsoc wonders how scp decides where to put something Sep 03 05:58:43 user@host:/var ? Sep 03 05:58:55 yeah, (but make sure there's space there first) Sep 03 05:59:12 why/how couldn't/wouldn't there be space in var? Sep 03 05:59:12 you should probably use /media/internal actually Sep 03 05:59:15 yeah Sep 03 05:59:19 that makes much more sense :) Sep 03 05:59:30 * zsoc does everything in /media/internal, hasn't exploded yet :) Sep 03 05:59:31 it's way bigger Sep 03 05:59:37 bigger is better Sep 03 05:59:51 well it'll vanish when you use mass storage mode Sep 03 05:59:57 but I don't use it now that I have usbnet Sep 03 06:00:35 the pre has to unmount /media/internal in order to export it over usb Sep 03 06:01:47 er.. wait... Sep 03 06:02:01 my user doesn't have access to /media/internal, which i suppose makes sense Sep 03 06:02:12 * zsoc wonders if scp can pass a sudo command Sep 03 06:04:27 zsoc: I just scp in as root Sep 03 06:05:15 you have to set a root password, then you can set up a keypair (more secure) or modify /etc/event.d/optware-dropbear and remove -g (and restart the dropbear service) Sep 03 06:05:19 root doesn't have a pas.... oh Sep 03 06:05:32 destinal: ping Sep 03 06:26:39 wow Sep 03 06:27:07 yeah, i love rooting my phone Sep 03 06:27:09 don't you oil ? Sep 03 06:27:27 i know destinal really enjoys it too. rooting is really his favorite past time. Sep 03 06:27:35 lol Sep 03 06:28:00 are you worried that when 2.0 update comes out it will conflict with any changes you've made while / Sep 03 06:33:13 anyone here? Sep 03 06:39:54 hm.. what would be the proper grammar there? Sep 03 06:40:03 "i've almost forget i'd chrooted on my pre"? "or i've chroot on my pre"? Sep 03 06:50:11 Ok, this actually makes me feel good Sep 03 06:50:49 i get the exact same result in my local cross-compiling environment, or in a debain chroot on pre. either palm's code, or their patch, is completely non-legit. Sep 03 06:56:52 whats good Sep 03 07:09:07 zsoc: well at least that's consistency Sep 03 07:09:09 :) Sep 03 07:09:14 * destinal is going to bed. Sep 03 07:09:16 good night all Sep 03 08:19:41 Hi, I've got problem... Sep 03 08:21:42 I'm using the emulator version, I contacts when I'm trying to assign image to contact, i'm getting Faild msg.... Sep 03 08:22:06 Do u know what wrong with it? or if it can or cant be done using the emulator? plz help me.. Sep 03 08:42:15 anybody here? Sep 03 08:54:51 anybody here? Sep 03 09:14:03 not many Pre users tonight Sep 03 09:14:10 still early in us Sep 03 09:14:35 DdAaDd: Sep 03 10:10:07 hi folks. Anyone know how to check if an ESN is clean? I bought a phone which the seller assures me is clean. However setting it up I couldn't get a palm profile without following the 'bad esn' instructions. I'm in the UK, so actually trying to connect it to a network isn't going to work! Sep 03 10:17:28 webos doctor? maybe? Sep 03 10:21:04 jettero: was that a suggestion for me? Sep 03 10:28:17 the internet is all fucked up... Sep 03 10:28:25 not just freenode Sep 03 10:28:26 :( Sep 03 10:34:29 ConfusedVorlon_: hi - where have I seen you before? Sep 03 11:01:09 rwhitby: I have been making palm apps for years (hobbyist software) and iphone apps for the last while Sep 03 11:01:32 ConfusedVorlon_: ah, hobbyist software - that's it. Sep 03 11:01:52 ConfusedVorlon_: welcome to webos-internals Sep 03 11:02:44 thx Sep 03 11:03:22 ConfusedVorlon_: are you going to do some great utilities for the Treo too? Sep 03 11:03:31 s/Treo/Pre/ Sep 03 11:03:31 rwhitby meant: ConfusedVorlon_: are you going to do some great utilities for the Pre too? Sep 03 11:03:31 the pre? Sep 03 11:03:58 sorry, I still have a Treo 650 only - slip of the tongue ... Sep 03 11:04:03 at the moment, I'm sticking with what can be done within the official framework, so not the same kind of utility Sep 03 11:04:09 hopefully useful apps though Sep 03 11:04:31 oh, but you were so good at getting under the covers of the Treos ... Sep 03 11:04:38 i do want to have a play with the lower level stuff though. looks like you can do a lot with java services Sep 03 11:05:08 yeah, we've done a few java services now, and PuffTheMagic has a C/C++ service working now too Sep 03 11:05:14 the main constraint for me will be whether palm allows the less-official stuff in the store Sep 03 11:05:32 are there any docs on how to do the java stuff? Sep 03 11:05:43 just our source code examples Sep 03 11:05:56 http://git.webos-internals.org/ Sep 03 11:06:27 what would you suggest for a service first look? Sep 03 11:06:59 is there a git:// url for that? Sep 03 11:07:21 for accessing /sys/... accelservice or ledservice. for interacting with a subprocess, ipkgservice. for a simple shell command, optloopservice. Sep 03 11:07:44 thanks Sep 03 11:07:58 accelservice and accelexample go together for the simplest full example. ipkgservice and preware go together for the most complex example. Sep 03 11:08:11 jettero: each page has a git clone and git push URL listed Sep 03 11:08:13 ...need to learn Java too! Sep 03 11:08:35 ConfusedVorlon_: do you prefer C/C++ ? Sep 03 11:09:05 ConfusedVorlon_: did you do any openmoko stuff? Sep 03 11:09:05 not sure about prefer - but java is new to me. I'm more familiar with C Sep 03 11:09:50 nope, palm (C), iPhone(obj-c) and some ruby on rails / php. Just learning javascript. Sep 03 11:09:56 I read a little bit of java, but this is the first project on which I've written Java. Sep 03 11:10:03 I'll learn java too in time! Sep 03 11:10:38 I'm getting the impression that java is the relevant language for looking at what palm are doing under the hood. Is that right? Sep 03 11:11:05 ConfusedVorlon_: yeah, JD-GUI comes in handy. otherwise it's strings on binaries. Sep 03 11:11:16 ConfusedVorlon_: so you're waiting for a GSM Pre like me? Sep 03 11:11:41 actually, I just bought a cdma one so I could test my apps Sep 03 11:11:54 but really want the gsm one so I can actually use it! Sep 03 11:12:16 good morning everyone Sep 03 11:12:21 evening rwhitby Sep 03 11:12:26 (i think) Sep 03 11:12:28 ConfusedVorlon_: how much did the cdma one end up after shipping to the UK, if you don't mind me asking? Sep 03 11:12:41 end up costing that is Sep 03 11:13:00 is gsm better than cdma? Sep 03 11:13:20 jcrawford: in countries where there is no cdma, absolutely ;-) Sep 03 11:13:27 ah Sep 03 11:13:45 $350 (shipping included) Sep 03 11:13:49 elsewhere, it's a matter of debate and often depends on the carriers. Sep 03 11:13:59 ConfusedVorlon_: USD? that's not too bad Sep 03 11:14:06 there are cheaper ones, but I got one that claimed 'clean ESN' so I can resell it Sep 03 11:14:27 some doubt whether that was true though. I couldn't activate without going through the 'bad esn' instructions Sep 03 11:14:54 was asking earlier - anyone know a way to verify clean/dirty ESN (without having access to a cdma network) Sep 03 11:14:58 ConfusedVorlon_: ebay or a store? Sep 03 11:15:02 ebay Sep 03 11:15:13 ConfusedVorlon_: have you looked on mobile-files.com ? Sep 03 11:15:46 nope - what is that? Sep 03 11:16:22 ConfusedVorlon_: see /msg Sep 03 11:16:22 or more specifically: why there? Sep 03 11:17:06 ConfusedVorlon_: did you get the /msg ? Sep 03 11:17:21 rwhitby: thx. I actually did get it working yesterday. Just want to know if the ESN is clean for when I sell it again Sep 03 11:17:39 ah, no idea about that. Sep 03 11:18:31 rwhitby: back to work for me. thanks for the pointers on services. Hope you like my apps when they come out! Sep 03 11:19:19 ConfusedVorlon_: I'll be looking forward to them - make sure we get them in Preware Sep 03 11:26:10 rwhitby, what is this mobile-files? Sep 03 11:26:26 jcrawford: a URL Sep 03 11:26:34 duh :D Sep 03 11:28:00 wait woa you can force your phone to use verizons evdo rather than just 1x? Sep 03 11:28:14 thanks for the link rwhitby Sep 03 11:28:15 :D Sep 03 11:39:15 rwhitby, may i pm? Sep 03 11:55:13 jcrawford: sure, anyone can pm me anytime. can't guarantee I'll answer though :-) Sep 03 11:55:31 Hi, I've got problem... Sep 03 11:55:34 I'm using the emulator version, I contacts when I'm trying to assign image to contact, i'm getting Faild msg.... Sep 03 11:55:51 Do u know what wrong with it? or if it can or cant be done using the emulator? plz help me.. Sep 03 11:55:57 I = in Sep 03 11:58:11 Saw my problem? Sep 03 11:58:19 anybody?..? Sep 03 12:03:32 anybody?..? Sep 03 12:03:34 anybody?..? Sep 03 12:48:58 anybody?..? Sep 03 12:48:59 anybody?..? Sep 03 12:49:01 Saw my problem? Sep 03 12:51:45 DdAaDd, behavior like that will only get you ignored Sep 03 12:51:56 no one wants to help someone who repeats that often Sep 03 12:52:08 personally i do not know the issue but please stop repeating :D Sep 03 12:57:59 seems no body here.. Sep 03 13:05:24 * rwhitby bbt Sep 03 13:44:33 Templarian: Something is off with that update you gave me last night PM me Sep 03 14:01:28 hey all... is there a truecrypt build that will work on the pre? Sep 03 14:21:27 anyone familiar with installing usbnet and gumstix for winxp? Sep 03 14:21:52 not sure what gumstix exactly is or how to install it to XP Sep 03 15:20:44 scary http://whattheinternetknowsaboutyou.com/ Sep 03 15:33:09 destinal: ping Sep 03 15:35:04 ameng1: pong Sep 03 15:36:48 still not work, have little time to debug in last 9 hours . ha , just got my home enviroment set up Sep 03 15:38:23 ameng1: you're testing on the emulator, yeah? Sep 03 15:38:34 yeah Sep 03 15:39:21 if I recall correctly the emulator and the pre act differently on the alpha channel info, which is why I ask Sep 03 15:42:39 ah, but your basicplugin works on emulator Sep 03 15:45:21 yes, that's true Sep 03 15:46:07 I think it's more the Pre that you need to worry about alpha channel anyway Sep 03 15:46:33 the emulator didn't really seem to be sensitive to it in the plugin drawing stuff Sep 03 15:46:43 destinal hi ! bellmo want to "push" the private ip !;) after 3 days .. they have reactivate the "private ip blabla" . i recall! .. they telling me "it'S a free service" .. -"i dont f* care i dont want it" i thnk it'S a first for a custommer ro decline a free offer ! hahaha ;) Sep 03 15:46:56 lol Sep 03 15:47:11 you getting stuck behind a NAT is a private service Sep 03 15:47:18 err a free service Sep 03 15:47:24 yup but now i got public ! i will call again and again Sep 03 15:47:25 ;) Sep 03 15:47:51 they telling me " the computeur do it itself" .. yea right =oP Sep 03 15:47:56 they save money not having to give you a public IP, but they might try to sell it as "protecting you" Sep 03 15:48:05 that'S why it take like 3-4 day to "activate" .. you have a prety slow computer at bell mo Sep 03 15:48:06 lol Sep 03 15:48:14 well it may be automated on a schedule Sep 03 15:48:23 so you may have to do it every few days forever Sep 03 15:48:29 but it's right ... i dont know how vulnerable the pre is Sep 03 15:48:52 probably some code do exploit it .. i dont think it'S a bullet proof unit Sep 03 15:49:01 well, there's always iptables and I think it's pretty locked down there out of the box Sep 03 15:49:08 from software firewall perspective Sep 03 15:49:15 yup Sep 03 15:49:38 I agree there may be some security issues but I don't think they're the type of issues that will be affected based on having a public IP or not Sep 03 15:50:16 yup it'S hard to know a pre is online at X ip .. you cant even ping it Sep 03 15:50:55 RainMan: that may be bellmo Sep 03 15:52:17 sorry Sep 03 15:53:25 RainMan: the ping thing may be bellmo blocking icmp Sep 03 15:53:42 have you tried pinging your pre when it's on wifi? I can ping mine. Sep 03 15:53:50 ho w8 Sep 03 15:53:53 will try it Sep 03 15:54:20 PORT STATE SERVICE Sep 03 15:54:20 113/tcp closed auth Sep 03 15:54:20 1720/tcp open H.323/Q.931 Sep 03 15:54:20 1863/tcp open unknown Sep 03 15:54:57 wait, h323? Sep 03 15:55:42 weird Sep 03 15:56:11 it destinal i RainMan: did you scan over wifi or evdo? Sep 03 16:00:28 evdo Sep 03 16:00:39 try over wifi, those could be bellmo ports Sep 03 16:00:50 like they could be doing some interception Sep 03 16:01:16 h323 IS used for VOIP, so maybe they're specifically trying to intercept it Sep 03 16:02:01 look like that ! on wifi 1720&1863 are closed Sep 03 16:02:46 we need PREskype ;) Sep 03 16:02:46 lol Sep 03 16:03:25 any kind of voip would be cool, and probably not that hard really.. we have pulse / alsa and a standard linux stack Sep 03 16:03:50 I would recommend someone trying asterisk and pulseaudio "channels" Sep 03 16:04:25 in a near future mobile phone will just have inet on it ! .. no more @cell line@ ;) Sep 03 16:04:42 RainMan: I think that's why some carriers are so afraid of wimax Sep 03 16:05:04 since it's generally designed as a pure data network, run whatever voip you want over that Sep 03 16:05:37 the cell companies are doing their 4G solutions very differently than wimax, still will be sold the way 3G is I believe Sep 03 16:05:38 well bellmo is trying to push the customer over hspa now Sep 03 16:05:57 they have removed all their upgrade plan . until hspa is out Sep 03 16:07:01 I hear HSPA is supposed to be reduced latency, so VOIP should be fine on it Sep 03 16:07:24 but here honestly Sep 03 16:07:33 i dont have a big deal for latency even on eVdo Sep 03 16:07:57 the main latency i got is from the pre itself (same on evdo than on wifi) Sep 03 16:08:55 nothing near the 10 sec latency i 73 packets transmitted, 52 packets received, 28.8% packet loss Sep 03 16:09:42 round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 75.219/296.125/3020.927/483.842 ms Sep 03 16:09:49 it that would cause huge jitter on voip though Sep 03 16:23:33 yea ! .. well gotta go work ... 45min turn around ! .. GRR ! a+ Sep 03 16:23:36 #nick Rain-WORK Sep 03 16:23:39 #nick Rain-WORK Sep 03 17:32:59 hey, its rick Sep 03 17:33:16 anyone know if there's a service notification for when the phone is in use? Sep 03 17:33:53 doesnt on the phone = no evdo internet? Sep 03 17:33:55 whose rick, rick belongs to whom? Sep 03 17:34:09 you could always use the connection service Sep 03 17:34:28 it's* Sep 03 17:34:36 :P Sep 03 17:34:39 damn nazis Sep 03 17:34:45 lol Sep 03 17:35:38 hmmm, but what if they're using wifi? Sep 03 17:35:52 would that still work? Sep 03 17:36:21 I'm sure you can determine in use phone through the telphony service, but isn't that on private bus? Sep 03 17:37:13 HattCzech: i'm pretty sure the connection service tells you weather its evdo or wifi Sep 03 17:38:00 right, but if i'm using wifi, then would evdo be in use for me to determine phone connectivity? Sep 03 17:38:02 * oil_work has never looked at the telphony service Sep 03 17:38:21 idk Sep 03 17:38:39 egaudet_work: by private, do you mean only in use by com.palm...? Sep 03 17:38:51 i'll start playing with it Sep 03 17:39:05 yea Sep 03 17:39:28 brb lunch Sep 03 17:49:03 Howdy, any life here? Sep 03 17:49:30 A: no, no life, only robots Sep 03 17:49:36 k Sep 03 17:49:40 ~botsnack Sep 03 17:49:40 thanks, gkatsev Sep 03 17:50:24 I ran out of space to install apps Sep 03 17:50:35 clean out /var Sep 03 17:50:43 it would appear they go in /var/usr/palm/applications Sep 03 17:50:50 or uninstall some optware Sep 03 17:51:02 which is on a small partition Sep 03 17:51:16 well I have not installed much Sep 03 17:51:19 doesnt preware not have that problem? Sep 03 17:51:49 I know little, i just know i had that problem and removing some optware fixed it Sep 03 17:52:17 can you enlighten me gkatsev as to what that means Sep 03 17:52:31 you mean as opposed to filecoaster? Sep 03 17:52:39 yes Sep 03 17:52:44 or palm app catalog Sep 03 17:52:49 from what ive been done, preware doesn't suffer that problem Sep 03 17:52:53 though, i could be wrong Sep 03 17:52:58 (personally, ive never hit the limit) Sep 03 17:54:08 I have been cleaning things up via "du -s | sort -n | tail" but that is not something I want to have to do on a regular basis Sep 03 17:56:36 so if I uninstall homebrew and reinstall via preware that may solve the problem? Sep 03 17:56:56 its actually filling up? and not from palms weird app count limit thing? Sep 03 17:57:38 is there any other typical culprit for /var that is not /var/log (which is on a separate partition) Sep 03 17:58:47 AHS, polar bear bowling, and EA tetris are enormous as compared to other apps Sep 03 17:59:19 AHS is crap :p Sep 03 18:00:02 still 10MiBs should not break any backs here Sep 03 18:00:15 i installed AHS Sep 03 18:00:20 attepmted to change the background thing Sep 03 18:00:32 I like trying things out Sep 03 18:00:33 and it was taking forever so i went to discard it Sep 03 18:00:36 and it wouldnt let me Sep 03 18:00:43 lol Sep 03 18:02:21 shortcovers and WHERE also rather large but they actually do stuff Sep 03 18:04:05 I am very disappointed that EA tetris does not play the tetris music. That was my key reason for trying and it is 5.5MiB Sep 03 18:04:40 lol Sep 03 18:04:43 from what ive heard Sep 03 18:04:46 blockdrop is better Sep 03 18:04:51 but, ive only played blockdrop Sep 03 18:05:32 I am trying out this MiB instead of MB now that Apple has responded to SI so pardon Sep 03 18:06:37 I will stick with blockdrop now that I know there is no music Sep 03 18:07:22 MiB MB? Sep 03 18:07:47 2^20 bytes versus 1e6 bytes Sep 03 18:08:06 yes well i hate MiB Sep 03 18:09:05 who started it Sep 03 18:09:11 some jerk Sep 03 18:09:27 yes either "Men in Black" or mebibyte Sep 03 18:09:40 marketing jerk rather Sep 03 18:11:02 mebibyte? Sep 03 18:11:04 lol Sep 03 18:11:36 Madeup imaginary byte Sep 03 18:11:53 how's about a byte+ which is 10 bits Sep 03 18:12:23 There are only 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who do not Sep 03 18:12:36 * oil_work loves that saying Sep 03 18:12:55 I am joking around but I started thinking abount it because my reflex is to type "du -sk" from my time working with sun Sep 03 18:13:38 Sun used to report disk size in blocks instead of bytes Sep 03 18:14:39 now Snow Leapord reports size in power of 10 bytes supposedly due to SI request Sep 03 18:15:52 not SI request .. manufacturer request, and probably the questions "I bought a 500GB hard drive, how come it says I have 440GB ?!" Sep 03 18:15:53 We have a 8.589934592 GiB Flash drive here on the pre Sep 03 18:16:00 i want my gigabytes! Sep 03 18:16:25 I am using du for this size hunt because internalz does not give me directory sizes Sep 03 18:19:21 in any case it is better than always halving the reported size as I did with Sun Sep 03 18:25:05 somepeople think that the "extra" memory you were supposed to get back from snow leopard is because they changed the way they calculated Sep 03 18:25:24 which, personally, i think is stupid. i want to know exactly how much i have, not "kinda" Sep 03 18:27:05 so are you saying it does or doesn't make sense to calculate space in base 10 ? Sep 03 18:28:02 doesnt make sense to calculate space in base 10 because data is stored in base 2 Sep 03 18:28:52 Ok email is probably a culprit in my missing space issue Sep 03 18:29:24 space in base 10 is like .1 in binary float Sep 03 18:30:15 that is a silly argument .. you store bits, not bytes - so shouldn't all capacities be in bits instead of bytes ? Sep 03 18:31:12 In my years of writing software I have learned to make units a user preference Sep 03 18:31:29 no, you store blocks not bits Sep 03 18:31:34 or bytes Sep 03 18:31:47 8 is a power of 2 Sep 03 18:32:03 some memories can store 9 bits per memory location Sep 03 18:32:11 (and it doesn't always have to be parity) Sep 03 18:33:27 Reporting power 10 above the block size is not unreasonable, but reporting power 10 below the block size is kidding yourself Sep 03 18:34:13 so size should be # blocks * # bytes/block represented in a base 10 ? Sep 03 18:37:29 blocks or bytes is what he means I think Sep 03 18:38:00 or you can report size and disk consumed like MS Sep 03 18:38:59 which is what osx had before snow leopard Sep 03 18:39:11 what all other OSes do now Sep 03 18:39:34 blocks on most modern *nix setups are 1024 bytes Sep 03 18:39:54 who cares about blocks Sep 03 18:40:30 MS uses 4096 byte blocks which is why anything with many files takes radically more space on an MS box Sep 03 18:41:17 another reason why you need to defrag windows more than linux or anything Sep 03 18:41:34 though i feel this is really getting off topic now .. heh Sep 03 18:41:43 lol Sep 03 18:41:45 defragging on linux would be bad Sep 03 18:42:29 in an inode based design and elevator disk tasking spacial diversity is faster Sep 03 18:43:19 you don't need to care about blocks unless you want to know disk space consumed by a file Sep 03 18:43:49 or if you wanted to speed your IO Sep 03 18:44:52 i'd think spatial diversity is only good when you can't issue the sequential read commands to the controller .. and have to wait for the disk to spin back around to read the next location you just missed Sep 03 18:45:44 in flash controllers, you're much better reading sequentially as your overhead decreases significantly, i would think Sep 03 18:46:10 that will certainly be true of SSDs but physical disks are more complicated because of things like thermal recalibration Sep 03 18:47:08 don't actual disks store more than the advertised amount because they do some orthogonal coding on the bits to make sure they don't get large sequences of 0's or 1's in a row ? Sep 03 18:47:52 my earlier statement will become false over the next few years. I guess MS was just ahead of its time :) with FAT Sep 03 18:48:24 MS ahead of its time... Sep 03 18:49:52 yeah real advanced to bang on the head of the disk over and over again in order to do anything Sep 03 18:53:25 in any case if I may redirect back to my problem, it looks like /var/luna/data has got 35M worth in emails and attachments Sep 03 18:53:59 is that something that can be throttled some how Sep 03 18:56:05 well I should back up a little. I have fixed my short term issue as I will use preware from now on at the recommendation of this group but I have a concern that this will be an ongoing issue as the palm catalog gets bigger and I have more apps to try. Sep 03 18:56:54 they will continue to install in /var/usr/palm/applications, correct? Sep 03 19:03:36 A, the flash is partitioned using lvm and palm has provisions to be able to resize based on space requirements (is what i understand) Sep 03 19:05:02 ok Sep 03 19:05:56 so the entire current app catalog fits in /var with other data Sep 03 19:06:56 yes - 3rd party apps are installed to /var Sep 03 19:07:41 I guess I forgot how small the app catalog is because I have been installing homebrew since I got my phone Sep 03 19:11:30 Does anyone know how to access the phone images from an app? Sep 03 19:11:45 the png's? Sep 03 19:12:40 yeah Sep 03 19:12:48 internalz Sep 03 19:12:50 Need one of them for an app Sep 03 19:13:59 I'll take a look at it, thanks Sep 03 19:17:20 root@castle:/tmp# cd /opt/src/modifications Sep 03 19:17:20 root@castle:/opt/src/modifications# git pull Sep 03 19:17:20 /bin/sh: git: not found Sep 03 19:17:24 any one that can help? Sep 03 19:17:42 oh Sep 03 19:18:02 you need to have git in something I forgot what Sep 03 19:18:26 Decimation: is /opt/bin/ in your path? Sep 03 19:18:32 yes Sep 03 19:18:32 or where ever git should beinstalled Sep 03 19:18:34 path Sep 03 19:18:51 echo $PATH to find out Sep 03 19:19:08 opt/bin/git pull worked Sep 03 19:19:53 Decimation: add /opt/bin to your path and then youll be able to just do git pull Sep 03 19:43:53 http://forums.precentral.net/webos-apps-software/201345-3-new-apps-9-3-09-a.html Sep 03 19:47:34 there are 7 new apps actually Sep 03 19:48:13 wikihow has an app Sep 03 19:52:56 wow, quite the bombardment of apps today Sep 03 19:53:31 yeah, total of 50 apps now in the catalog Sep 03 19:58:45 that coinflip app is the exact same thing as the homebrew? Sep 03 19:58:52 same dev? Sep 03 19:59:09 Wow Sep 03 19:59:18 Lots of new apps in the app store Sep 03 19:59:33 oooOOOOoo Zork for the Pre Sep 03 20:01:00 Palm is threatened by the Hero hahaha Sep 03 20:02:44 Not really Sep 03 20:03:51 more and more keep coming in Sep 03 20:03:56 these are approved from homebrew? Sep 03 20:04:26 I don't believe any homebrew apps have made the leap Sep 03 20:05:40 oh dear Sep 03 20:05:46 not enough memory message for me Sep 03 20:05:55 can't use the catalog :( Sep 03 20:06:09 sux Sep 03 20:06:47 hmm my var isn't even full Sep 03 20:07:28 not even over 70% Sep 03 20:07:51 43% Sep 03 20:07:53 it says Sep 03 20:09:26 Yeah I wonder if EA is having the Tetris stronghold on El Chileno's app actually making its way to Homebrew-neighborhood Sep 03 20:09:34 err App-neighborhood Sep 03 20:10:44 Palm better fix the /var problem before the app catalog goes out of beta or else there are gonna be a ton of pissed customers Sep 03 20:10:59 Translator is from homebrew Sep 03 20:11:34 tmaps looks cool Sep 03 20:11:39 if you live in DC Sep 03 20:17:26 hmm isn't Preware supposed to get around the 60 app limit? Sep 03 20:17:54 doesnt it? Sep 03 20:18:02 not for me... Sep 03 20:18:16 I only installed my apps with Preware and I got the stupid message Sep 03 20:18:17 i havent hit the limit Sep 03 20:18:27 i dont think its like that Sep 03 20:18:31 i think its Sep 03 20:18:33 up to the limit Sep 03 20:18:35 everything works Sep 03 20:18:38 but once you hit the limit Sep 03 20:18:40 only preware works Sep 03 20:19:14 my /var is only 43% used Sep 03 20:19:26 its not a space problem Sep 03 20:19:37 its a "palm says you can install this # of apps" Sep 03 20:19:51 oh Sep 03 20:20:03 well that is lovely Sep 03 20:20:06 you get the error Sep 03 20:20:11 you can still install with preware, right? Sep 03 20:20:16 lemme try Sep 03 20:21:16 yup Sep 03 20:21:20 preware works Sep 03 20:21:28 well there you go! Sep 03 20:22:41 stupid app catalogh Sep 03 20:22:55 maybe they will remove the limit after it goes out of beta Sep 03 20:23:03 i would hope so Sep 03 20:23:22 the problem is you can't update the app catalog apps once you hit the limit Sep 03 20:23:38 really? Sep 03 20:24:36 yup Sep 03 20:24:41 same out of space message Sep 03 20:24:56 yeah Sep 03 20:24:58 that does suck Sep 03 20:25:13 maybe you should remove some homebrew you haven't used since installing Sep 03 20:26:48 I just did Sep 03 20:26:52 didn't make a difference Sep 03 20:26:59 huh Sep 03 20:27:04 how did you delete them? Sep 03 20:27:08 orange+tap Sep 03 20:27:09 ? Sep 03 20:27:29 si Sep 03 20:27:36 * oil has no idea Sep 03 20:27:49 i just write the app that can install apps Sep 03 20:27:51 xD Sep 03 20:27:55 lol Sep 03 20:27:56 brb Sep 03 20:31:18 here is an angry guy Sep 03 20:31:19 http://forums.palm.com/palm/board/message?board.id=weboshardware&thread.id=2450&view=by_date_ascending&page=2 Sep 03 20:31:41 lol Sep 03 20:31:45 class action lawsuit! Sep 03 20:31:47 * oil signs up Sep 03 20:32:17 I still don't understand why they would empose a limit Sep 03 20:32:25 well really Sep 03 20:32:45 they probably didn't expect such a massive amount of homebrew to be as easily installed Sep 03 20:33:05 i bet whats in the catalog wouldn't hit the limit Sep 03 20:33:43 only 50 ;) Sep 03 20:33:49 60 is the limit apparently hahaha Sep 03 20:34:21 see Sep 03 20:35:52 I just counted 56 on my phone Sep 03 20:36:06 I think I have a few services though that I missed Sep 03 20:36:16 yeah Sep 03 20:36:22 they're packages Sep 03 20:36:26 so they probably count Sep 03 20:37:30 so I guess I did go over 60 Sep 03 20:37:42 bad eguy! Sep 03 20:37:48 :( Sep 03 20:37:55 *goes to timeout corner* Sep 03 20:38:18 dont forget the dunce hat Sep 03 20:38:32 hahahaaahaahhaa!!!!!!!!!!! Sep 03 20:38:46 haven't heard that in a while Sep 03 20:38:51 lol Sep 03 20:38:57 at work Sep 03 20:39:17 there is a picture of the president of the company as a kid Sep 03 20:39:19 at school Sep 03 20:39:23 wearing one sitting in a corner Sep 03 20:39:32 hahaha Sep 03 20:39:34 awesome Sep 03 20:39:36 i always say im going to use it for something Sep 03 20:39:40 like the homepage or something Sep 03 20:39:43 just to mess with him Sep 03 20:40:00 get out of the engadget podcast Templarian :D Sep 03 20:40:07 ? Sep 03 20:46:33 Hmm. I have two Terminal Service Plugins installed. One called x-webosinternals-termplugin and one called org.webosinternals.termplugin Sep 03 20:47:31 you need both Sep 03 20:47:48 I just removed one of them and it still works Sep 03 20:47:57 weird Sep 03 20:47:57 Eguy: no, you don't need two termplugins Sep 03 20:48:02 oh Sep 03 20:48:04 you need terminal and termplugin Sep 03 20:48:04 I thought you did Sep 03 20:48:16 * oil hands eguy the dunce hat again Sep 03 20:48:16 I think the first one was probably left over from the pre-preware days Sep 03 20:48:30 tlp: yeah, we changed the naming convention at some point Sep 03 20:48:32 *frowns and goes to the corner* Sep 03 20:48:38 thanks oil Sep 03 20:48:43 lol Sep 03 20:49:08 any chance PreWare will ever support pulling from the official app catalog? Sep 03 20:49:20 lol Sep 03 20:49:21 no Sep 03 20:49:25 I just tried using it (officla one) and it isn't as easy to use. Sep 03 20:49:26 nope Sep 03 20:49:33 haha Sep 03 20:49:35 it doesn't work for me right now hahaha Sep 03 20:49:52 will it support removal of service plugins? such as the termplugin? Sep 03 20:50:00 yes Sep 03 20:50:04 I guess as people move their apps from PreWare into the official catalog, it opens up a slot for an open source one to be developed just for PreWare Sep 03 20:50:04 1.0 will Sep 03 20:50:07 is it still difficult to install preware? Sep 03 20:50:14 never was Sep 03 20:50:16 jcrawford: webos quick install Sep 03 20:50:27 you can already remove service plugins, I think. Sep 03 20:50:35 that is what was hard to install then heh Sep 03 20:50:46 argh Sep 03 20:50:54 I just removed a bunch of apps Sep 03 20:50:55 jcrawford: webos quick install is just a jar file. there is no installation... Sep 03 20:50:59 sorry, out of memory Sep 03 20:51:05 tlp: nope, i tried removing the term plugin but it says i cant do it Sep 03 20:51:23 hmm. I just removed the old, useless one. I wonder if it really removed it. Sep 03 20:51:26 you have to use webosdr for that jar tho don't you? Sep 03 20:52:00 jcrawford: yes, but it will dl it for you Sep 03 20:52:04 at least the newest version does Sep 03 20:52:17 yeah Sep 03 20:52:20 we disabled it for now Sep 03 20:52:40 we Sep 03 20:52:43 the allmighty we Sep 03 20:53:35 well, I feel dumb. The reason the Shoutcast app wasn't working for me is because I had the silence switch turned on. Sep 03 20:54:01 * Eguy hands the dunce hat to tlp Sep 03 20:54:54 lolol Sep 03 20:55:53 "i'm a kitty kat and i dunce dunce dunce and i dunce dunce dunce" yes? Sep 03 20:56:28 why did you disallow removing services? Sep 03 20:57:35 because they all have a prerem that restarts services Sep 03 20:57:42 meaning, kills the ipkg service Sep 03 20:57:50 meaning, after it runs prerem, it doesn't remove the package itself Sep 03 20:58:14 fixing it is in the works though Sep 03 20:58:24 by passing flags of what needs to be done Sep 03 20:58:30 so the app can call them when needed Sep 03 20:58:33 oooooh i see Sep 03 20:58:36 after everything has been done properly Sep 03 20:59:13 so this whole postinst/prerm stuff is turning into more finer grained tasks Sep 03 20:59:20 who woulda thunk it! Sep 03 20:59:44 somewhat Sep 03 20:59:48 btw gnu patch binary shouldn't be a service? Sep 03 20:59:58 * oil has no clue Sep 03 21:00:07 ok why does the package service show an icon under apps? Sep 03 21:00:10 i dont categorize things, just display them that way xD Sep 03 21:00:15 if it is a service it should be in the background right> Sep 03 21:00:30 jcrawford: it doesnt support dependencies yet Sep 03 21:00:40 * Eguy rm -rf com.palm.app.catalog Sep 03 21:00:42 once it does it wont need to be listed Sep 03 21:01:00 ah ok Sep 03 21:01:12 preware is very nice though D: Sep 03 21:01:21 thanks to all whom contributed :D Sep 03 21:01:46 it was just oil Sep 03 21:01:56 rwhitby has him chained to his desk Sep 03 21:01:58 lies Sep 03 21:01:59 i did nothing Sep 03 21:02:01 no bathroom breaks Sep 03 21:02:12 1 meal Sep 03 21:02:21 be back tomorrow :D Sep 03 21:06:02 oil: how does PreWare detect whether or not a plugin can be removed? It indeed refuses to remove the newer Terminal plugin, but happily went through with the other. Sep 03 21:06:50 it doesnt Sep 03 21:06:56 it should have not removed any of them Sep 03 21:06:56 lol Sep 03 21:07:14 I mean, maybe the old one wasn't properly branded as a plugin or something Sep 03 21:07:19 maybe Sep 03 21:07:37 tlp: maybe it said it removed it but didnt actually? Sep 03 21:08:01 it's not listed anymore Sep 03 21:08:14 did you restart preware? Sep 03 21:08:17 yep Sep 03 21:08:26 ok, i guess it did then Sep 03 21:09:22 i remember i installed the flashlight app yesterday preware said it installed it but it didnt actually. had to restart preware and then it installed jsut fine Sep 03 21:10:24 good app huh? Sep 03 21:10:31 uhhh, this makes no sense Sep 03 21:10:31 I lov eit Sep 03 21:10:33 love Sep 03 21:10:39 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 41 Jul 30 00:06 termplugin.so -> /var/usr/lib/BrowserPlugins/termplugin.so Sep 03 21:10:46 tlp@castle:/usr/lib/BrowserPlugins$ file /var/usr/lib/BrowserPlugins/termplugin.so Sep 03 21:10:50 -sh: file: not found Sep 03 21:10:53 but the Terminal works. Sep 03 21:12:32 file is not found Sep 03 21:12:36 not the file, but the command Sep 03 21:12:41 ohhh Sep 03 21:12:49 doh. Sep 03 21:12:58 :D Sep 03 21:13:40 md5sum: can't open '/var/usr/lib/BrowserPlugins/termplugin.so': No such file or directory Sep 03 21:13:43 still not there. Sep 03 21:14:04 Eguy: most useful app on the phone, eh? :D Sep 03 21:14:24 could it be that the service is running in RAM and that's the only reason it works? Sep 03 21:14:43 reboot Sep 03 21:14:45 and find out Sep 03 21:15:05 ahh, the dreaded Pre reboot. Sep 03 21:15:08 gkatsev: you got that right Sep 03 21:15:16 the 30 minute Pre reboot hahaha Sep 03 21:17:16 * oil wrote his own flashlight app to use the service Sep 03 21:17:42 an LED one? Sep 03 21:17:54 tlp: LED what? Sep 03 21:17:55 like the other one, yeah Sep 03 21:18:02 gkatsev: Flashlight Sep 03 21:18:09 but instead of the little toggle button Sep 03 21:18:14 what other flashlight do you want? Sep 03 21:18:15 the entire screen turns it on and off Sep 03 21:18:36 there are non-LED "flashlight" apps that just make the screen white or something. Sep 03 21:18:40 the screen flashlight is stupid Sep 03 21:18:43 oil: good call, you should release it as fim (flashlight improved) Sep 03 21:18:46 camera led ftw Sep 03 21:18:52 lol Sep 03 21:18:55 when I discovered the LED flashlight I was blown away by how cool it was Sep 03 21:18:55 i just called it flashlight Sep 03 21:19:05 with no exclamation point Sep 03 21:19:11 lol Sep 03 21:19:26 hah, that was it. Terminal borked after reboot. Sep 03 21:19:29 i wonder if palm will allow apps with the same name Sep 03 21:19:37 different appid Sep 03 21:19:40 flashlight 1 Sep 03 21:19:43 flashlight 2 Sep 03 21:19:46 flashlight 4 Sep 03 21:19:47 thats true Sep 03 21:19:48 com.pregame.flashlight Sep 03 21:19:49 vs Sep 03 21:19:54 whatever.isbetter.flashlight Sep 03 21:19:59 lol Sep 03 21:20:03 different titles Sep 03 21:20:25 com.palm.app.catalog.does.not.work Sep 03 21:20:51 called "indapps" Sep 03 21:20:54 findalls* Sep 03 21:20:54 com.palm.app.catalog.golatac.ppa.mlap.moc Sep 03 21:20:56 shit Sep 03 21:20:58 findapps*? Sep 03 21:21:06 lololl Sep 03 21:21:15 * Eguy puts the dunce hat on oil Sep 03 21:21:31 fingers werent doing what i wanted them to Sep 03 21:21:37 woah there Sep 03 21:21:41 * gkatsev notices dunce hat wasnt labeled. Sep 03 21:21:48 * gkatsev writes DUNCE in big letters on it Sep 03 21:22:11 * Eguy points and laughs at oil Sep 03 21:22:23 * gkatsev follows suit Sep 03 21:22:26 * oil bides his time Sep 03 21:23:54 hah Sep 03 21:24:24 http://i28.tinypic.com/nb9k51.png Sep 03 21:24:27 xD Sep 03 21:24:49 LOL Sep 03 21:25:16 "Tap to crash" Sep 03 21:25:45 no crashing Sep 03 21:25:56 it works great Sep 03 21:26:14 i used it the other day while crawling behind some computers trying to find what got unplugged Sep 03 21:26:56 * oil adds (c) all your base are belong to oil 2009 Sep 03 21:27:00 to the bottom Sep 03 21:27:24 lol Sep 03 21:27:45 thats the cool thing to do, right? Sep 03 21:28:55 yeah Sep 03 21:29:20 * oil goes back to working on preware Sep 03 21:32:01 destinal: any plans to make the virtual keyboard work with Terminal in landscape? Sep 03 21:32:28 how about entire keyboard rotation to work with apps in landscape Sep 03 21:33:32 * oil wants physical keyboard to work in landscape Sep 03 21:33:54 heh physical keyboard rotation Sep 03 21:37:13 does the oskb even work in the terminal app? Sep 03 21:37:37 no Sep 03 21:37:51 probably because it requires an input field, and the Terminal doesn't really have one Sep 03 21:37:55 yep Sep 03 21:38:00 that would be the reason Sep 03 21:38:22 it would be nifty for that though Sep 03 21:39:50 tlp: yeah, it would be tricky, but cool. given the direction egaudet is going with wanting to make the virtual keyboard act the same as the real keyboard, it may be a lot easier with future versions Sep 03 21:41:09 but still, porting / duplicating some of is code into terminal itself would seem to be very doable -- it's just not one of the things I'm focused on right now Sep 03 21:42:22 ah Sep 03 21:47:47 bbl Sep 03 22:12:37 morning Sep 03 22:14:44 evening Sep 03 22:17:49 egaudet_zZz: gnu patch binary is no longer marked as a service, so can be removed in Preware safely. Sep 03 22:19:50 * rwhitby figures that the oreo effect is just a precursor to allowing the physical keyboard to work in landscape mode ... Sep 03 22:30:25 you know we really are doing Palm a good service by highlighting the lack of space for applications so that they can fix it before the App Catalog gets out of beta ... Sep 03 22:31:09 Did you post a bug about it on the forum? Sep 03 22:32:48 lack of space for applications? Sep 03 22:32:53 in the menu? Sep 03 22:32:59 or the partition? Sep 03 22:50:46 tlp: I assume the partition Sep 03 22:57:02 evening Sep 03 23:43:50 chrisa: that's a good point - I'm unable to verify the bug myself (as I can't buy a Pre in Australia, and the Palm App Catalog is not part of the emulator) so I can't submit the bug report, but I do recommend someone who can verify it does so. Sep 03 23:52:01 I'm pretty sure someone has already told them Sep 03 23:53:42 isnt it on the forum? theyll definitely see that at some point Sep 03 23:53:52 * rwhitby will be out of contact later today - taking the kids to the show Sep 03 23:54:18 rwhitby: what show? Sep 03 23:54:34 gkatsev: royal adelaide show Sep 03 23:55:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Adelaide_Show Sep 03 23:55:24 looks cool Sep 03 23:55:54 muahaha, now i know where you live. kind of Sep 03 23:57:15 is everything ok with preware feed? Sep 03 23:57:24 i get updating for over 2 minutes Sep 03 23:57:42 en0x: try restarting preware Sep 03 23:57:50 i did few times Sep 03 23:58:40 gkatsev: google already knows where I live Sep 03 23:59:21 en0x: working fine here Sep 04 00:00:19 five more apps and Preware total hits 200 Sep 04 00:02:31 hmm Sep 04 00:02:41 i rebooted pre and it helped Sep 04 00:02:47 weird Sep 04 00:03:10 hmm it hits 200? i have available apps 213 Sep 04 00:03:10 hmm Sep 04 00:04:05 en0x: it counts the office app catalog apps Sep 04 00:04:10 i c Sep 04 00:07:18 OT: rhwitby: RAS looks a lot like the sydney easter show did, before it became a showbag shopping centre Sep 04 00:08:32 also rwhitby, feel your pain on not being able to test App Catalog via emulator. 13 new apps today and I'm just a blogger swingin' in the breeze... Sep 04 00:08:46 * freakout goes back to lurking Sep 04 00:13:31 oh my god can someone get me an ice bucket Sep 04 00:13:38 it is quite hot outside Sep 04 00:16:18 * freakout passes Eguy last night's beer esky. still some ice floating in it. but even better, still some beer left in it. Sep 04 00:16:35 * Eguy lifts glass Sep 04 00:16:45 thanks mate Sep 04 00:19:04 oil: do we do something to prevent ipkgservice being removed using Orange+click in the Palm GUI? Sep 04 00:20:04 the hidden and unremovable settings in the appinfo appear to only work after a reboot Sep 04 00:20:11 maybe a luna restart will hide the icon? Sep 04 00:20:11 rwhitby: visible:false? Sep 04 00:20:19 it IS visible:false Sep 04 00:20:22 but that doesnt work Sep 04 00:20:24 oh Sep 04 00:20:24 untill after a reboot Sep 04 00:20:34 you can do the luna rescan Sep 04 00:20:38 that should hide it Sep 04 00:20:46 as long as we've got it unremovable that should be fine Sep 04 00:21:21 I am still a little upaset that I can't download from the catalog right now with 43% used space Sep 04 00:22:10 rescan doesnt either Sep 04 00:27:52 hmm Sep 04 00:28:48 What's wrong with a reboot other than the 30 minutes it takes Sep 04 00:34:26 it's Linux, rebooting is just philosophically bad ;-) Sep 04 00:34:32 haha Sep 04 00:36:29 rwhitby, that's an understatement Sep 04 00:38:46 i should try ksplice Sep 04 00:38:55 i should try giving up Sep 04 00:40:50 is there a way to change the password of the user I created during the bootstrap installation of optware I screwed the password up Sep 04 00:41:25 Eguy: as root, run passwd Sep 04 00:52:05 so, is anyone interested in looking into the Palm catalog or service and seeing where this app limit is? Sep 04 00:53:02 unless someone knows assembly there is no point Sep 04 00:53:09 its coded in the LunaSysMgr Sep 04 00:55:58 woot thanks Jackie.... I probably should of known that Sep 04 00:56:16 I can finally ssh in Sep 04 00:58:11 yup 105mb used in /var and can't download from the catalog already...Preware works fine of course ;) Sep 04 00:59:13 Eguy, it seems that's a common issue :) Sep 04 00:59:21 yup Sep 04 00:59:23 Shouldn't the next update be _really_ soon Sep 04 00:59:29 today! Sep 04 00:59:32 Right oil? Sep 04 01:00:03 PreGame: could do a binary patch to LunaSysMgr Sep 04 01:00:14 like s/60/99/ ... Sep 04 01:01:59 or program the dbus to rewrite the responses from ApplicationInstaller::lunasvcQueryInstallCapacity() ... Sep 04 01:02:40 or just do a string patch on LunaSysMgr: s/false/true/ where it returns the json result from that query ... Sep 04 01:03:46 or reduce the total reserved app db size ... Sep 04 01:07:41 * rwhitby would probably be motivated to fix this if he actually had a Pre ... Sep 04 01:07:53 * rwhitby bbl Sep 04 01:10:04 i myself would not do such a patch. i would rather have my pre fixed by palm Sep 04 01:12:16 Do people actually use all the apps they're installing? I'm surprised so many people are hitting the 60 limit in here Sep 04 01:13:36 good question Sep 04 01:13:41 i use my terminal app Sep 04 01:14:27 I use about 75% of my apps I would say Sep 04 01:15:48 chrisa, do you/ some other palm devs make it a habit of using autoconf? Sep 04 01:16:13 I would love it if there was a way to use the plain old symbols keyboard with the terminal Sep 04 01:16:24 Yes Sep 04 01:16:28 like { and } Sep 04 01:17:00 chrisa, games Sep 04 01:17:01 and \ ^ [ ] ` Sep 04 01:17:06 i think geist was shuddering at autoconf/autotools Sep 04 01:17:08 you might have 30-40 games Sep 04 01:17:18 dont have to use them all the time Sep 04 01:17:31 or apps you might only use once in a blue moon Sep 04 01:17:38 autoconf seemed like a lot of overhead to me :( Sep 04 01:17:39 say my fligh app Sep 04 01:18:07 geesh the calendar is sooo laggy even on wifi Sep 04 01:18:34 It REALLY needs to be data independent... email aso Sep 04 01:18:39 should cache Sep 04 01:19:09 the calendar is really laggy w/ lots of calendars Sep 04 01:19:17 its like it takes forever to iterate through all of them Sep 04 01:19:34 I dont think its loading it off the web Sep 04 01:19:44 as I think it works even w/o network connection Sep 04 01:19:44 It is loading off the web Sep 04 01:19:48 it is Sep 04 01:19:49 sheesh Sep 04 01:19:51 thats just so wrong Sep 04 01:19:55 yup Sep 04 01:20:03 the Pre is 100% reliant on data Sep 04 01:20:11 no Sep 04 01:20:13 except for contacts hah Sep 04 01:20:15 put airplane mode on Sep 04 01:20:19 and it has my calendars Sep 04 01:20:31 maybe last iteration Sep 04 01:20:38 though much faster Sep 04 01:20:42 than w/ airplane mode off Sep 04 01:20:51 The emulator is nice and fast LOL Sep 04 01:20:58 rwhitby, you need help with anything? i'm a little burnt out on this gst stuff atm Sep 04 01:24:37 I am not enjoying the delay of downloading the full email body Sep 04 01:50:00 Is this the place to ask about a patch failure, or is #webos better for that? Sep 04 01:54:01 treesloth: here Sep 04 01:54:12 patches are an -internals thing Sep 04 01:55:49 Ah, thanks. Sep 04 01:56:46 In particular, I'm getting "Hunk #2 FAILED at 30." and "Hunk #3 FAILED at 125." with /opt/src/patches/more_icons_per_row.patch Sep 04 01:57:08 but I'm going to try remove/redo with the patches... Sep 04 02:00:21 what are you patching what are you running Sep 04 02:00:24 what patches do you have applied Sep 04 02:00:35 well, poo... no change. I'm guessing that when I did the "add pages" change, I must have added an extra line or something... Sep 04 02:00:54 According to quilt applied, I have "No patches applied" Sep 04 02:01:19 how did you remove past patches Sep 04 02:01:55 at this point I'd say extract the files from the doctor that you want to touch with the patch Sep 04 02:02:08 I enabled the add pages thing manually, not with the patch system. I tried to remove it by reversing the instructions in the wiki (adding commenting back) but that's not too reliable... Sep 04 02:02:31 ahhh Sep 04 02:03:00 I shall flagellate myself and then get a copy of the file... Sep 04 02:03:11 yea you should probably get the pristine file from doctor image Sep 04 02:08:30 small bug in Preware 0.8 to report: title of new Zork app is screwy Sep 04 02:08:43 Preware doesn't seem to like colons Sep 04 02:08:57 Odd, my calendar loads almost instantly and it's with gmail and exchange calendars Sep 04 02:09:03 oops, scrolled up a bit Sep 04 02:09:16 its ok chris, your input is always welcome ;) Sep 04 02:10:30 My only real gripe so far is that new phone numbers aren't automatically saved to the sim, only the profile Sep 04 02:11:07 by sim I mean device Sep 04 02:11:21 that sounds strange Sep 04 02:11:40 I could be crazy, I'll check later Sep 04 02:13:11 i noticed today that google maps opens up from text messages with maps.google.com as the target Sep 04 02:13:13 that was nice Sep 04 02:13:35 looking at engadget confuses me, do people buy battery packs for iphones? Sep 04 02:13:52 It looks as big as carrying a second phone Sep 04 02:14:10 when you can't take the battery out ... and you need extra time Sep 04 02:14:18 that duracell thing didn't look to bad Sep 04 02:14:31 I have something like 8 batteries so... Sep 04 02:15:26 my battery is very tight .. i didn't like pullng it Sep 04 02:15:45 Should be fine with the little tab Sep 04 02:15:58 Though I did manage to tear that tab off by pulling way too hard on an early prototype Sep 04 02:16:05 it was still really tight using that - i didn't want to stress anything Sep 04 02:16:55 every time i think about it, i look at pictures of the device taken apart .. Sep 04 02:17:09 and i remember when i flexed a pcb and saw 0201 resistors crack in half :( Sep 04 02:19:51 ah, google maps now opens up from web links ... when i first tried with the old software it didn't do that - nice Sep 04 02:22:33 hwhitby: afternnon! After lunch i will email you details on IPKG Installing plug the latest Java and DotNet versions Sep 04 02:24:48 i meant to say "IPKG Installer plus" Sep 04 02:24:55 be back after lunch, cya Sep 04 02:29:47 chrisa, is there any way to tell luna to treat a button press as the "back" gesture instead of the out/in toggle ? Sep 04 02:36:09 I know nothing about luna Sep 04 02:36:37 you and me both :( Sep 04 02:37:15 what do you primarily work on ? Sep 04 02:37:22 woah... we have 5x4 icon goodness. Sep 04 02:37:28 congrats Sep 04 02:37:30 Thanks, egaudet Sep 04 02:38:30 Of course, the downside is that my mother is going to want this, too... I really don't want to to tech support for root mods from 1000 miles away... Sep 04 02:38:31 got it working? Sep 04 02:38:41 yep, it's working. Many thanks. Sep 04 02:38:59 Is it one of the tweaks available with WebOS quick install? Sep 04 02:39:12 hmmm... didn't look... Sep 04 02:40:32 ok, looks like they have 4x4 with quickinstall. Sep 04 02:40:53 this makes me 4 better than those people, I assume... Sep 04 02:40:58 whatever that means... Sep 04 02:43:03 besides being a little easier for some, is the quickinstall "better" in any way? Sep 04 02:47:06 Good day!! :) Sep 04 02:47:10 what is 'locationadapter'? Sep 04 02:50:02 For organization on the wiki there is a new template. http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Template:Thinking-page Sep 04 02:51:26 anyone here know any good irc channels or forums about unlocking phones? I mean the nitty gritty stuff. How to do things like JTAG, etc **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Sep 04 02:59:57 2009