**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 07 02:59:57 2009 Sep 07 03:02:38 Zuchmir2: I was referring to places in Preware where comparisons of versions are done. I didn't realise you were only doing date-related changes. Sep 07 03:02:59 the only one working so far is date... Sep 07 03:03:13 trying to figure out why the rest dont work Sep 07 03:04:22 what else doesnt work? Sep 07 03:04:32 MY new sort code Sep 07 03:04:51 oh Sep 07 03:04:52 lol Sep 07 03:13:30 i see all the apps have their multiple screenshots now :) Sep 07 03:14:05 yep, Dieter updated the PreCentral xml feed. Sep 07 03:18:53 thats great. Sep 07 03:19:51 * rwhitby bbl Sep 07 03:31:11 oil: ping Sep 07 03:31:26 aye Sep 07 03:31:43 my assumption is when you do if(a.name.toLowerCase()) you mean if(a.name) Sep 07 03:32:14 as you want to ensure a.name is valid before converting to lowercase, no? Sep 07 03:32:35 whats a.name from? Sep 07 03:32:42 categories/feeds/types? Sep 07 03:32:50 ... which is waht you do by if (a.title && b.title) Sep 07 03:32:54 all three Sep 07 03:33:34 categories/feeds/types should always have a name Sep 07 03:33:38 hola folks Sep 07 03:33:40 anyone here know how to get the 'mouse' position on the pre? Sep 07 03:33:42 i dont know why they wouldnt Sep 07 03:33:42 by packages you do if (a.title && b.title) Sep 07 03:33:49 cause im not always sure it has a title Sep 07 03:34:00 ok, so why the if(a.name.toLowerCase() ... Sep 07 03:34:15 idk Sep 07 03:34:32 probably left over from old code that didnt always have a name Sep 07 03:34:41 my assumption is the intent was to make sure a.name actually exist Sep 07 03:34:48 so should it come out? Sep 07 03:34:49 is it possible to install the latest Package Manager Service using Terminal on the Pre? I don't have a micro usb cable with me right now to use webosquickinstall. Sep 07 03:35:07 no reason Sep 07 03:35:08 terminal can do it all! Sep 07 03:35:11 feel free to change it Sep 07 03:35:25 kesne: idk if you can if its not frmo an event Sep 07 03:35:43 crap... i need to mux an avchd movie with an mp3, anyone got a suggestion for software? Sep 07 03:35:45 oil: well there has to be some way Sep 07 03:36:12 im sure you'll find it then Sep 07 03:36:19 bpadalino: what would be the correct command to update it? Sep 07 03:36:37 let me get you the link Sep 07 03:37:04 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware#Updating_via_IPKG Sep 07 03:37:30 So we think 1.2 here shortly? Sep 07 03:38:12 * freakout really thinks there should be webos-internals betting pool for the 1.2 release date Sep 07 03:38:28 :) Sep 07 03:38:47 9/8/09 Sep 07 03:39:11 ...and there's a cricket in my dining room Sep 07 03:39:13 lovely Sep 07 03:39:30 9/15/09, personally. Sep 07 03:39:30 LOL Sep 07 03:39:56 I think 9/15 Sep 07 03:41:11 nebula, it's waiting for you to make some bad jokes so it can chirp. Sep 07 03:41:19 (like that one :P ) Sep 07 03:41:46 bpadalino: thanks Sep 07 03:42:08 right Sep 07 03:42:13 yw Sep 07 03:44:32 oil: are there only 5 sorts? the 4 in packages.js, and the 1 in pkg-list-assistant.js Sep 07 03:45:16 lol Sep 07 03:45:53 sounds about right Sep 07 03:46:06 ok, aqbout to push Sep 07 03:51:33 ok, just pushed the mods Sep 07 03:52:01 ok Sep 07 03:52:12 its faster? Sep 07 03:53:30 it should be, although i didn't test speed Sep 07 03:53:53 it's doing fewer compares, and fewer toLowerCase() Sep 07 03:54:47 yeah Sep 07 03:55:06 the only thing i can think of that would cause it to slow down is that it's being assigned to a variable, but i would guess the speed improvment of 3 toLowerCase() vs. 1 assignment would be fatser Sep 07 04:04:49 Calls like tlc() take n time, they're ugly to throw around Sep 07 04:05:05 That's more of a general programming thing though Sep 07 04:10:15 isn't too bad for small n Sep 07 04:10:17 :) Sep 07 04:11:24 i really wish boot time were a little better on the pre/webos :( Sep 07 04:13:21 Working on it Sep 07 04:13:37 linux/novaterm are up very fast, if that's what you mean Sep 07 04:13:48 oh, i know they're up quick .. Sep 07 04:13:59 i think it's luna that just takes a while Sep 07 04:19:01 Do updates come out on specific days or whenever Palm wants? I thought I heard they come on fridays Sep 07 04:20:37 I don't believe we've set a day Sep 07 04:23:49 is there a day set for unintentional leaks ? Sep 07 04:24:09 Friday Sep 07 04:24:20 intentionally unintentional leaks :p Sep 07 04:24:30 thanks .. i'll set the cronjob for fridays then Sep 07 04:25:51 rofl Sep 07 04:26:03 * corq-FL notes this as well ;-) Sep 07 04:26:14 lol Sep 07 04:28:37 Okay, I'd like to complain that Palm reminders work too well: it just reminded me that I go on-call tomorrow at 8am, boo hiss. Sep 07 04:29:04 It was weird having my meeting notifications for PST go off while I was in china Sep 07 04:29:14 oh i bet Sep 07 04:29:16 Expected, but it catches you off guard Sep 07 04:29:46 heh, sounds amusing Sep 07 04:31:13 how was china when you visited ? Sep 07 04:31:18 i don't think i'll ever be able to visit Sep 07 04:31:41 It's sort of like ohio in august if there was no sun and it was even humider Sep 07 04:32:11 never been to ohio either ... but no sun and severely humid ? Sep 07 04:32:24 smog blocks the sun most of the year Sep 07 04:32:33 sounds delightful Sep 07 04:32:35 At least in the industrial regions Sep 07 04:32:52 so on your summer vacation list now ? Sep 07 04:33:39 i can't complain about other places to live ... i get over 100" of snow every winter Sep 07 04:33:56 I miss snow Sep 07 04:34:25 /dcc send chrisa snow.tar.gz Sep 07 04:34:44 you really miss it ? Sep 07 04:34:53 aye Sep 07 04:34:59 norcal weather is really dull Sep 07 04:35:07 i'm glad i don't have to shovel it too much anymore .. but still sad every time i see a foot sitting on my car Sep 07 04:35:15 Whereas ohio could go from sleet to 80 degrees to snow to hail to rain to 80 degrees Sep 07 04:35:18 yeah - no real seasons, right ? Sep 07 04:35:19 in a week Sep 07 04:35:30 They call december winter here Sep 07 04:35:38 as far as I can tell it means we just get rain every few days Sep 07 04:35:51 autumn is my favorite time of year .. but we get only a couple of weeks if that .. Sep 07 04:35:54 Minnesota in the winter was nice Sep 07 04:36:03 -20 degree weather all the time ? Sep 07 04:36:09 lower Sep 07 04:36:13 Brrrrr Sep 07 04:36:28 yeah, it's awesome spitting at a stop sign and having it hit with a "ding" Sep 07 04:36:40 I can't say I've ever experienced taht Sep 07 04:36:48 it's amusing Sep 07 04:36:57 but you don't want to stay out too long Sep 07 04:37:08 well - unless you're chrisa i guess :) Sep 07 04:37:30 These days I've learned Calvin's dad was correct Sep 07 04:37:31 are you a winter sports person, chrisa? ice climbing ... skiing .. etc ? Sep 07 04:37:54 I've only done warm climbing Sep 07 04:38:09 basketball on icy courts was a good college game though Sep 07 04:38:16 I had my first issue today with 1.2... phone app didn't know I was on a call but the call was there on speaker. couldn't end it either .. Sep 07 04:38:17 my friends all love ice climbing Sep 07 04:38:29 MW, how did you remedy ? Sep 07 04:38:35 had to 3-finger reboot Sep 07 04:38:38 ah Sep 07 04:39:10 tsk tsk, using a 1.2 build that isn't even final. Dancing with the devil, or something Sep 07 04:39:31 I can deal with it, just observing. I hope Palm knows about it. Sep 07 04:39:32 bleeding from his fingers as he hits the pre's reboot buttons Sep 07 04:40:12 chrisa, you should try ice climbing .. my friends swear by it and if you don't mind the cold weather ... Sep 07 04:40:26 what is ice climbing? Sep 07 04:40:37 climbing large slabs of ice Sep 07 04:40:39 You find a glacier and you climb it Sep 07 04:40:44 Michigan has some good ones Sep 07 04:40:45 Cool Sep 07 04:40:53 http://www.alpe-rjavina.si/slike/ledno.jpg Sep 07 04:40:57 similar to that Sep 07 04:41:10 I've never even seen a block of ice like that before Sep 07 04:41:25 i have those hanging from my gutters in the winter! Sep 07 04:41:39 it doesn Sep 07 04:41:43 it doesn't get cold here :) Sep 07 04:42:07 do the leaves change for autumn ? Sep 07 04:42:19 what's autumn? Sep 07 04:42:19 and you get that wood camp fire smell in the air ? Sep 07 04:42:30 Hah, I wish Sep 07 04:43:03 i love that aroma ... and that time Sep 07 04:43:09 hoodies .. autumn .. Sep 07 04:43:14 I'm in Honolulu... we get wet season..dry season . Sep 07 04:43:20 ah Sep 07 04:56:51 so, anyone with any new problems with Preware 0.8.4 ? Sep 07 05:00:00 came out too fast Sep 07 05:00:09 I just updated to 083 Sep 07 05:01:58 is 0.8.4 actually pushed out to be updated from within preware ? Sep 07 05:02:28 no, it's in alpha testing only Sep 07 05:02:35 still on 0.8.2 here Sep 07 05:02:39 ah Sep 07 05:02:42 (unless you add the testing feed to preware manually) Sep 07 05:03:32 holy phone slowdown .. i think my phone just locked when loading preware Sep 07 05:03:46 oh Sep 07 05:04:25 yeh preware grinds loading the feeds sometimes Sep 07 05:04:31 i have a feeling the jvm crashed Sep 07 05:04:40 as my phone said "Phone Offline" for a little bit Sep 07 05:04:46 whoa Sep 07 05:04:54 it complained about the service not running ... so i said OK Sep 07 05:04:58 then tried to load up the term Sep 07 05:05:16 jvm restarted, and it seems to be working again Sep 07 05:05:21 yeh tapping any other menu, very sludgy response Sep 07 05:05:24 hm Sep 07 05:05:34 082? Sep 07 05:05:42 yes Sep 07 05:05:49 oh Sep 07 05:06:05 well all the loading stuff has been completely redone in 084 Sep 07 05:06:29 about 7 secs after closing preware, animation/response nice again. Sep 07 05:06:39 ah cool .. Sep 07 05:07:02 i'll be sure to keep an eye on it Sep 07 05:07:25 how does it handle things if on of the feeds is down/unavailable? Sep 07 05:07:31 *one of Sep 07 05:07:49 im not sure Sep 07 05:08:15 there is a little bit of patience required in the beginning of loading preware Sep 07 05:08:17 just curious if the slowdown was it polling for an unresponsive feed Sep 07 05:08:26 there is an ambiguous "Loading" circle Sep 07 05:08:32 but no status as to what is going on Sep 07 05:08:34 bpadalino not in 084 Sep 07 05:08:45 excellent - more information is given ? Sep 07 05:08:49 coolio Sep 07 05:08:50 yeah Sep 07 05:08:53 and its WAY faster Sep 07 05:09:04 how do i get the 0.8.4 alpha installed? terminal ? Sep 07 05:09:27 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/testing/all/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice_0.8.5_all.ipk Sep 07 05:09:27 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/testing/all/org.webosinternals.preware_0.8.4_all.ipk Sep 07 05:09:35 multiple ways: Sep 07 05:09:47 hmmm Sep 07 05:09:49 1) Add the testing feeds to webos quick install Sep 07 05:10:09 2) Configure the testing feeds manually in /var/etc/ipkg Sep 07 05:10:22 3) Download and install the ipkgs with webo quick install Sep 07 05:10:27 085 was pushed to preware Sep 07 05:10:38 4) download and install the ipkgs in the terminal Sep 07 05:11:01 does 0.8.4 let me add new feeds from a preference pane ? Sep 07 05:11:01 Eguy: I think you're referring to ipkgservice, not preware. Sep 07 05:11:06 yes Sep 07 05:11:06 no Sep 07 05:11:08 nope Sep 07 05:11:11 lol Sep 07 05:11:12 egal Sep 07 05:11:12 stfu Sep 07 05:11:15 no Sep 07 05:11:15 is that not in the plans ? Sep 07 05:11:19 yes to Rod's question Sep 07 05:11:24 lol Sep 07 05:11:31 Stop judging me Sep 07 05:11:38 bpadalino: need to work out how to allow a user to do it, but stop a rogue webos app doing it. Sep 07 05:11:41 because i wouldn't mind a preference to be "Bleeding Edge" Sep 07 05:11:49 even for just webos internals stuff Sep 07 05:12:02 bpadalino: just add a new conf file in /var/etc/ipkg/ Sep 07 05:12:16 usb cable is in the other room, so it's less convenient Sep 07 05:12:21 bpadalino be throwin' hisself out there for the good of science! Sep 07 05:12:24 ;-) Sep 07 05:12:28 bpadalino: using terminal and vi Sep 07 05:12:42 i could Sep 07 05:12:57 * oil thinks about retagging this new 084 Sep 07 05:13:07 at the moment, we're not going to make getting the alpha testing feed any easier ... Sep 07 05:13:21 that's kind of a shame :( Sep 07 05:13:31 rwhitby: im going to retag this new commit Sep 07 05:13:35 oil: ok Sep 07 05:13:43 and while you do that, i'm going to go to sleep Sep 07 05:13:44 night Sep 07 05:13:51 nite Sep 07 05:13:52 cya Sep 07 05:14:00 bpadalino: it's a trade-off between ease of accessing the alpha feed, and quality of alpha testing feedback Sep 07 05:14:12 (and motivation levels of alpha testing feedback) Sep 07 05:14:45 there is a known correlation between how easy it is to get something, and the quality of the feedback you'll get. Sep 07 05:15:08 bpadalino, of course, would give very high quality feedback Sep 07 05:15:19 the problem with internalz and filemgrservice was my url regular expression xD Sep 07 05:15:38 but i fixed it Sep 07 05:15:42 so no known bugs now? Sep 07 05:16:06 i think pretty much everything is working for the most part Sep 07 05:16:14 (still no ipkgservice version check though) Sep 07 05:16:27 ok rwhitby you can give oil his snack Sep 07 05:16:36 lol Sep 07 05:16:53 * rwhitby ignores egal Sep 07 05:17:20 hahaha oh no Sep 07 05:17:24 lol Sep 07 05:17:24 what has he done Sep 07 05:17:32 hahaha Sep 07 05:18:07 updated 0.8.4 in the testing feed Sep 07 05:20:10 ah cool, preyoumind has a new package Sep 07 05:21:39 * rwhitby doesn't understand the rules of the "Hold the Button" game .... Sep 07 05:22:27 * Eguy doesn't understand the rules of this channe; Sep 07 05:22:29 l Sep 07 05:22:50 rule 1 Sep 07 05:23:13 make fun of eguy at every opportunity or face bannishment Sep 07 05:23:23 rule 2 Sep 07 05:23:25 see rule 1 Sep 07 05:23:26 hahaha that explains a lot Sep 07 05:23:31 lol Sep 07 05:24:09 So PuffTheMagic has 1 "Mojo Application" compared to 198 "Application"s Sep 07 05:24:35 there is nothing i can do about that Sep 07 05:24:39 We still need a better name than "LinuxBinary" Sep 07 05:24:42 oil: yeah, I know. Sep 07 05:24:44 besides a lot of if statements that will eventually be overwhelming Sep 07 05:25:13 oil: nope, it's not our place to correct the non-conformists of the world. Sep 07 05:26:15 at least it allows us to test the scrolling on the package types page ... Sep 07 05:27:49 oil: how do you handle the merging of info from packages from two feeds? Sep 07 05:27:58 lots of if statements? Sep 07 05:28:20 e.g. I have 0.8.4 installed from the testing feeds, but it's showing the changelog in the description from 0.8.2 in the public feed Sep 07 05:28:59 does 084 have description? Sep 07 05:29:11 should do Sep 07 05:29:15 should check Sep 07 05:29:23 for example Sep 07 05:29:28 it would load all teh info for 082 and save it Sep 07 05:29:37 then it sees org.webosinternals.preware again Sep 07 05:29:41 and says "which is newer?" Sep 07 05:29:46 then loads the info over the other Sep 07 05:29:48 where info is missing Sep 07 05:29:57 ah, only where info is missing? Sep 07 05:30:01 yeah Sep 07 05:30:04 so 082 has data Sep 07 05:30:08 that'll be it then Sep 07 05:30:09 but Sep 07 05:30:11 they both have data Sep 07 05:30:35 yeah Sep 07 05:30:37 or something Sep 07 05:30:39 its hit and miss Sep 07 05:30:49 we need to overwrite based on later version Sep 07 05:30:57 it should be Sep 07 05:30:59 it goes both ways Sep 07 05:31:02 depending on which is newer Sep 07 05:31:12 so maybe 084 has no data Sep 07 05:31:15 and it loads 082s Sep 07 05:31:25 0.8.4 has data in the feed, and should also be in the ipkg too Sep 07 05:31:31 (the testing feed) Sep 07 05:31:33 idk then Sep 07 05:31:51 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/preware.git;a=blob;f=app/models/package.js;h=177ae7694b4c1221aad409510cc9f2354d5c54c4;hb=c47e7f9eed565df4aad02c04fa7b8e8bbafbdf4c Sep 07 05:31:55 look at "unfoUpdate" Sep 07 05:33:01 we need infoLoadOverwrite too Sep 07 05:33:09 but it goes both ways Sep 07 05:33:13 if the new one is newer Sep 07 05:33:18 it should loadmissing to it Sep 07 05:33:20 instead of the othre way Sep 07 05:33:22 other* Sep 07 05:33:27 right Sep 07 05:33:36 so loadMissing is all we really need Sep 07 05:33:44 but, those if statements may not all be entirely correct Sep 07 05:33:54 but if info is in both, the newer one needs to overwrite the older. Sep 07 05:34:29 but if its newer Sep 07 05:34:32 it shouldnt be going that way Sep 07 05:34:36 it would be loading missing from the old one Sep 07 05:34:43 into itself Sep 07 05:34:54 i dont see why we need overwrite Sep 07 05:35:05 how do you make sure you are processing the newest first Sep 07 05:35:32 e.g. you'll probably process the testing feed before the webosinternals feed Sep 07 05:35:49 (due to the alpha sorting in get_configs) Sep 07 05:35:49 it checks to see which is newer Sep 07 05:38:44 what description changelog do you see for Preware? Sep 07 05:38:51 0.8.2 or 0.8.4 ? Sep 07 05:39:11 082 Sep 07 05:39:20 but i dont have the testing feeds Sep 07 05:39:21 and you have 0.8.4 installed, right? Sep 07 05:39:31 right Sep 07 05:39:34 from palm-insatll Sep 07 05:39:55 and luna-send info for preware gives you 0.8.4 description, right? Sep 07 05:40:05 like i said Sep 07 05:40:07 no testing feed Sep 07 05:40:21 so i would never get a 084 message Sep 07 05:40:27 but the description is in the ipkg too, not just the feed. Sep 07 05:40:41 ah, but not your ipkg. ok. Sep 07 05:41:12 oil: did you palm-install from source or from the ipkg in the testing feed? Sep 07 05:41:18 source Sep 07 05:45:35 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXR_alTT2S0 Sep 07 05:45:41 * nebula plays the drums Sep 07 05:56:08 oil: just did mods to versionNewer(), to use fewer parseInt()/compares Sep 07 05:57:21 it still works Sep 07 05:57:22 ? Sep 07 05:57:31 yeah Sep 07 05:57:45 does it fallow that crazy format rwhitby wants to use?> Sep 07 05:58:16 not sure i understood what was different than is there now Sep 07 05:58:44 (N:)?N(.N)*(-N)? Sep 07 05:58:44 right now it works for x.y.z Sep 07 05:58:48 he wants Sep 07 05:58:59 i think he was talking about what todo with the RESULTS of versionNewer() Sep 07 05:59:02 timestamp:x.y.z.for.ever-something Sep 07 05:59:14 oil: epoch is not a timestamp Sep 07 05:59:37 rwhitby: you want unlimied dots? Sep 07 05:59:40 it's a single integer, defaults to 0, used as a major version with more importance than any of the following numbers Sep 07 05:59:51 Zuchmir2: ipkg allows unlimited dots Sep 07 06:00:05 ok, so can use a for loop Sep 07 06:00:27 ... and u want timestamp as the 1st int? Sep 07 06:00:45 not always Sep 07 06:00:52 it needs a regular expression Sep 07 06:01:10 the first int is *not* a timestamp Sep 07 06:01:23 the first int is major? Sep 07 06:01:35 the first int is used to reset versioning Sep 07 06:01:50 say you are tracking an upstream package, and they are progressing 1.0.0, 2.0.0, 3.0.0 Sep 07 06:02:07 and the upstream maintainer suddenly decides the next version will the 0.5.0 Sep 07 06:02:34 you increment the epoch from the (default, assumed) 0: to 1: and then your new version is 1:0.5.0 which is larger than 3.0.0 Sep 07 06:03:51 ok, so var e1 = one.split(':'); var v1 = e1.split('.'); Sep 07 06:03:54 I'm considering one of these eeepc's from sellout.woot, but I have no idea why I need it Sep 07 06:03:59 I already have a 13" xps Sep 07 06:04:00 now, if you (the downstream packager) stuff up your packaging, and need to issue a new ipkg but it's the same upstream version, then you append -N Sep 07 06:04:16 so 1:0.5.0-1 is newer than 1:0.5.0 Sep 07 06:04:31 lol Sep 07 06:04:47 chrisa: my eee kicks ass ;) i mainly use it for class & stuff, nice & light Sep 07 06:04:48 Zuchmir2: if you dont want to deal with it, feel free to leave it Sep 07 06:04:57 i was going to get to it after all this other junk Sep 07 06:05:00 well, I don't have class these days Sep 07 06:05:07 and right before making the dates display right for other parts of the world Sep 07 06:05:15 everything till the -1 was fine, trying to figure out how to handle the -1 Sep 07 06:05:15 xD Sep 07 06:05:29 Though, a 900 would fit in a small bag I want to get for cycling Sep 07 06:05:44 chrisa: hm, any travvvling where you need to do work? i love how easy it is to carry around. My main laptop is a pain Sep 07 06:06:14 I have an xps 1330 for work and it weighs very little Sep 07 06:06:18 Zuchmir2: the -1 is just like another .1 after all the other dots Sep 07 06:06:42 This 900 only has a 4gb ssd though Sep 07 06:07:04 chrisa: ooo. the main reason i got mine was because it was so much easier to transport. i think i have one of the 1000 versions, with a 8GB + 4GB drives Sep 07 06:07:10 talking about the asus? Sep 07 06:07:10 Damn. I just released an app that's apparently a bit overzealous with a particular web API call. *facepalm* Sep 07 06:07:25 And wouldn't you know it, people are using the app Sep 07 06:07:30 daybreak1199: yep Sep 07 06:07:38 My xps has been great so far, though I might want to get a normal volt battery for it Sep 07 06:07:46 lmorchard: and you own the server and are paying for the data? Sep 07 06:07:46 Having the extended all the time increases its weight a little Sep 07 06:08:02 rwhitby: Well, no... a friend of mine who's running the service Sep 07 06:08:05 chrisa: yeah. How much extra time do you get from it? Sep 07 06:08:12 cool..yeah i have the 1000 series with the 32 g ssd...used a 16 gig sd card in the side to dual boot from Sep 07 06:08:16 I've gotten about 6-7 hours coding Sep 07 06:08:16 So I'm costing someone *else* some money :) Sep 07 06:08:25 oil: new status indicator in 0.8.4 is nice ;-) Sep 07 06:08:43 :) Sep 07 06:09:01 Now I get to see how well people update their homebrew apps after I roll out an update Sep 07 06:09:03 daybreak1199: wow, i wish i had a 32g drive. kinda iffy on replacing the drive with a bigger one though. atm i have ubuntu jaunty on there Sep 07 06:09:17 Ha! blockchack what I just updated :) Sep 07 06:09:24 er blockchalk Sep 07 06:09:25 $160 for the 900 Sep 07 06:09:29 i really like the eeebuntu distro made for it...works really well Sep 07 06:09:46 ones on woot.com now? Sep 07 06:09:50 hmmm I need an aceronebuntu :P Sep 07 06:10:02 daybreak1199: i used that at first, then i think they changed it to like eeeasypeasy or something. So i just went with the full blown install Sep 07 06:10:06 The woot.com one has a celeron and only 512mb Sep 07 06:10:09 The irony about me writing the BlockChalk app is that I bet almost no one near me will use it Sep 07 06:10:16 so, has anyone else experienced the preware md5sum mismatch problem? Sep 07 06:10:17 sellout.woot.com has an atomt 1.6ghz one and 1gb Sep 07 06:10:21 For $20 more Sep 07 06:11:15 turns out that a side effect of allowing people to not update every launch exacerbates a lurking problem that has been there all along. Sep 07 06:11:31 hmm 1.6ghz ..they all need to be tweeked a little..using xp on dual boot takes forever to load up...eeebuntu starts in about 2 min though... Sep 07 06:11:58 no webcam ;[ Sep 07 06:12:11 Why do people keep complaining it has no webcam Sep 07 06:12:12 rwitby: Is there a way certain updates could be flagged as important/required (like for lmorchard's app) & tell you it needs to update to continue? Sep 07 06:12:18 in the time period between an update and an install, the Packages file and ipk can be updated on the server, and the md5sum no longer matches what's in the Packages file Sep 07 06:12:19 Is that really a killer feature nowadays? Sep 07 06:12:31 chrisa: most people have laptops and the next one they want a webcam with Sep 07 06:12:42 easypeasy is a great distro for the eee Sep 07 06:12:42 * rwhitby tries to talk some -internals stuff in what seems to now be #webos-laptop-review ;-) Sep 07 06:12:50 When I grew up the only people with webcams were the same people who kept candy in their car just in case Sep 07 06:13:19 ew Sep 07 06:13:42 think video chat/skype Sep 07 06:13:42 i just got the asus g51vx ROG series...vista 64 makes it really hard to work with alot of the dev tools but it does a really good job playing games Sep 07 06:14:13 all laptops should have backlit keyboards Sep 07 06:14:39 my ibm t41 has an LED at the top of the screen that shines on the keyb instead ;] Sep 07 06:14:51 chrisa: do you have anything to do with the ipkg feeds in Palm? I guess you guys don't do silly things like PreCentral does in allowing authors to change an ipkg file with the same version number but now with different contents ... Sep 07 06:15:23 I know how our build system builds them, and I've written a number of them myself Sep 07 06:15:24 awww rwhitby now you're just being fussy. Sep 07 06:15:32 and in our system that's not possible Sep 07 06:15:48 you can't expect homebrew people to increment their version number EVERY TIME they release an update Sep 07 06:15:57 gosh, that's so _compulsive_ Sep 07 06:16:02 chrisa: ok, good. so I either need to convince Dieter not to allow that, or add extra stuff in Preware to handle it gracefully. Sep 07 06:16:16 Why is preware touching the main ipkg database? Sep 07 06:16:17 let's work on convincing Deiter Sep 07 06:16:22 I thought you guys decided that was bad mojo Sep 07 06:16:25 chrisa: do you work for palm?? Sep 07 06:16:26 have the pkg have to be rebuilt and md5's match, problem solved Sep 07 06:16:33 chrisa: it's touching the database in /var Sep 07 06:16:46 Didn't you used to make a secondary db for homebrew ipkgs? Sep 07 06:16:47 my logitech keyboard is backlit Sep 07 06:16:52 Or was that just while people were doing chroots Sep 07 06:16:59 chrisa, we're NOT touching the main database. we have a secondary database in /var Sep 07 06:17:06 chrisa: we did /opt for optware stuff, but decided to emulate palm-install for homebrew Sep 07 06:17:24 Rick_home: chrisa knows what he's talking about ... Sep 07 06:17:36 Rick will shut up now Sep 07 06:17:53 i'm sure we can all see how it can be confusing Sep 07 06:17:55 Rick confused /var and /opt for about the sixth time this week. Sep 07 06:18:07 I probably need to go to bed. :-) Sep 07 06:18:10 chrisa: so we're not touching the OE ipkg database done during the rootfs build, but are interoperating with the /var one that is used by the app catalog and SDK palm-install script Sep 07 06:18:32 and the optware linux command line stuff is off in a completely separate db in /opt Sep 07 06:18:40 ok, so you're using the same catalog db then Sep 07 06:18:41 gotcha Sep 07 06:19:15 palm packages are always going to have a new S if something changes x.y.z-S Sep 07 06:19:36 chrisa: yeah, that's the way it should be done. Sep 07 06:19:51 PreCentral authors are not so methodical. Sep 07 06:19:58 actually, come to think of it I don't think we actually do other version numbers Sep 07 06:20:03 It's just packagename-submission# Sep 07 06:20:04 follow kernel standards Sep 07 06:20:55 Robi_: unfortunately, I cannot dictate to PreCentral what the homebrew authors there should do. Sep 07 06:21:09 I can recommend standards, but not dictate. Sep 07 06:21:19 if the submissino system takes in a new ver it should auto-increment then Sep 07 06:21:24 Does precentral build packages or are they uploaded by authors? Sep 07 06:21:34 Does Dieter have a reason to leave it as-is? Or just too busy to get to it? Sep 07 06:21:44 chrisa: uploaded by authors. webosinternals has an autobuilder. Sep 07 06:21:56 Then just track the upload date Sep 07 06:22:03 Use it as a submission type number Sep 07 06:22:20 There are a lot of things that are manual entry on the precentral app submit page, such as appID and version from appinfo.json Sep 07 06:22:56 lmorchard: yeah, no guarantees that the version in the ipkg control file with match the one in appinfo.json Sep 07 06:23:16 need some server side magic to make it so Sep 07 06:23:17 s/with/will/ Sep 07 06:23:18 rwhitby meant: lmorchard: yeah, no guarantees that the version in the ipkg control file will match the one in appinfo.json Sep 07 06:23:58 Robi_: yep, not my server ... Sep 07 06:24:29 offer some code? Sep 07 06:24:36 but chrisa's idea is a good one to suggest to Dieter. Sep 07 06:24:51 Robi_: I don't have access to their existing code - they are not an open source shop. Sep 07 06:25:03 fine, pseudo code Sep 07 06:25:08 so I can't send them a patch. Sep 07 06:25:14 i'm sure he'll get the idea Sep 07 06:25:20 Does Dieter like beer? we can send him beer Sep 07 06:26:18 chrisa: I'm assuming that the palm OTA update process just ignores what's in /var/usr/lib/ipkg/lists/* Sep 07 06:26:35 since you guys use a different scheme for working out what needs updating. Sep 07 06:26:40 rwhitby: I honestly have no idea, that's too far outside my area Sep 07 06:26:52 which is slow as snails btw~! Sep 07 06:27:02 But I'm pretty sure the updates just contain a list of packages provided to update rather than checking versions Sep 07 06:27:06 I could be wrong though Sep 07 06:27:13 chrisa: that matches what we've seen Sep 07 06:27:17 Robi_: what is slow? Sep 07 06:27:22 updates checker Sep 07 06:27:32 Robi_: Updates have always seemed pretty speedy, minus the dev branch one that bricked me Sep 07 06:27:55 compared to ipkg, it's hella slow Sep 07 06:27:56 oh no, don't tell me "brick" is used incorrectly in Palm too .... Sep 07 06:28:10 It trashed the modem firmware, that's pretty close Sep 07 06:28:40 ah, ok. yeah, not just a linux rootfs problem. Sep 07 06:28:44 rwhitby: you like brick'ed better? Sep 07 06:28:59 No, I think he's lamenting people mentioning kernel/fs problems as bricked Sep 07 06:29:03 Robi_: anything that can be recovered by an end-user with public software is not a brick. Sep 07 06:29:10 agreed Sep 07 06:29:38 I wonder if the emulator works in vb3 Sep 07 06:29:47 reflash is the line Sep 07 06:29:55 I don't know enough about the modem firmware update procedure to know whether that falls in the bucket or not, and I expect it's not something that Palm folks can talk about in there anyway ... Sep 07 06:30:15 s/there/here/ Sep 07 06:30:16 rwhitby meant: I don't know enough about the modem firmware update procedure to know whether that falls in the bucket or not, and I expect it's not something that Palm folks can talk about in here anyway ... Sep 07 06:30:22 you could call it Pebbled: a bad situation but not a full on brick Sep 07 06:30:47 lets not go there Sep 07 06:32:06 chrisa: I'm using it in 3.04 Sep 07 06:32:21 working nicely Sep 07 06:32:39 yep it does Sep 07 06:33:24 found out at the last palm hosted Pre dev camp Sep 07 06:34:17 chrisa: setting up a second network host-only interface to do scp transfers from a ubuntu VM to the Pre emulator works nicely too. Sep 07 06:34:33 but I did need to change a line in some script somewhere .... Sep 07 06:34:46 better be on the wiki :P Sep 07 06:35:43 I'd just use novaterm for that anyway Sep 07 06:36:50 chrisa: VM to VM on a macosx host. needed to use ubuntu to make building the binary plugin easier. Sep 07 06:38:16 rwhitby, oil: want to check this code, see if it works as advertised: http://pastebin.com/d27ea6954 Sep 07 06:39:05 oh, I see Sep 07 06:39:14 the emulator doesn't really provide much in /sys Sep 07 06:40:34 Zuchmir2: does it handle the case where one version has -1 but the other doesn't? Sep 07 06:41:26 Zuchmir2: i.e. do lines 29 and 30 need conditionals in case only one of extra1 and extra2 are true? Sep 07 06:41:34 it treats 0.5.0-1 like 0.5.0.1 Sep 07 06:42:30 don't think so, as extra2[1] would be null, parseInt would return 0 (i think) Sep 07 06:42:34 but ofcourse it could also be 0.5.0.1-1 Sep 07 06:42:42 or 0.5.0.1.7-1 Sep 07 06:43:04 it basically put's the -x after ALL digits Sep 07 06:43:07 ah, so extra2[1] doesn't throw some sort of out of bounds error in javascript? Sep 07 06:43:07 im pretty sure parseInt returns 0 if cant convert it to a number Sep 07 06:43:32 I think it returns NaN Sep 07 06:43:45 well, the old code was comparing 4 numbers all the time (if the 1st 3 matched) Sep 07 06:43:48 Zuchmir2: as long as it still works with the x.y.z or w.x.y.z we currently use, we can deal with it not working when a package throws that garbage in their version Sep 07 06:44:23 Zuchmir2: the old code was written to handle a much restricted set of versions Sep 07 06:44:27 hven't tested this code, i want a 2nd set of eyes to look it over Sep 07 06:44:56 how do 0.5.0-1 and 0.5.0.1-0 compare? Sep 07 06:45:02 the point i was making was, the 4th set of digit comparison did not throw an exception Sep 07 06:45:39 it would be like 0.5.0.0.1 vs 0.5.0.1.0 Sep 07 06:46:27 the -1 goes as the next digit past largest set of numbers Sep 07 06:49:33 cool Sep 07 06:50:19 apart from the array bounds stuff (which I'd personally put code in to handle correctly rather than allowing javascript to hopefully do the right thing), it looks ok to a quick scan by me. Sep 07 06:50:56 writing some test code, to try various whatifs Sep 07 06:53:07 btw http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware is buggered, can't edit subsections Sep 07 06:59:25 whats new Sep 07 07:00:29 you like inglorious bastards? Sep 07 07:00:41 fantastic movie Sep 07 07:01:56 Robi_: yeah, I dunno what is going on with subsection editing on our wiki - just hit the edit button at the top and it works. Sep 07 07:02:11 Rick_home: got any idea about that? is it something with the templates? Sep 07 07:02:33 the template or another section is overwriting the section IDs i think Sep 07 07:03:11 * rwhitby gets involved with the mechanics of the wiki as little as possible Sep 07 07:03:40 yeah it was great Sep 07 07:04:13 oil: "Oh, do you mind if i smoke my pipe now?" Sep 07 07:04:15 LOL Sep 07 07:04:20 that was hilarious Sep 07 07:04:21 LOL! Sep 07 07:04:21 lol Sep 07 07:04:29 BonJOURNO Sep 07 07:04:37 say it again please? Sep 07 07:04:51 hahah Sep 07 07:04:52 bonJOURNO Sep 07 07:04:55 that movie was really racist at parts too Sep 07 07:05:00 but it was really funny Sep 07 07:05:01 I'm sorry, say it again? Sep 07 07:05:18 I loved the nazi guy Sep 07 07:05:28 damn the precentral feed takes forever Sep 07 07:06:20 wtf... Sep 07 07:06:24 god damn precentral Sep 07 07:06:28 lol Sep 07 07:06:39 is it that bad? Sep 07 07:06:39 Don't diss on PreCentral Sep 07 07:07:08 Yeah, without Precentral nobody would be coming in here and saying what is root Sep 07 07:07:36 don't you mean HELLO, CAN SUM1 HELP ME ROOT PLZ Sep 07 07:07:42 yes Sep 07 07:07:52 yeah but their feed make preware slow at load Sep 07 07:08:03 PuffTheMagic: are you using 0.8.4 or later? Sep 07 07:08:05 bro can you help me wit root plz Sep 07 07:08:12 yeah Sep 07 07:08:32 heh - "slow" is a relative term then. Sep 07 07:08:42 Yes Sep 07 07:08:57 even on 1X is is not unbearable for me Sep 07 07:09:11 Imagine how slow it would be on AT&T Sep 07 07:09:35 Why not load feeds dynamicly? Sep 07 07:10:21 kesne: ipkg doesn't work that way Sep 07 07:10:32 rwhitby: some times is fast some times its slow Sep 07 07:10:42 but thats the way it was for me with the old service Sep 07 07:10:47 the one that uses ipkg info Sep 07 07:11:07 so now the only difference is the new progress bar Sep 07 07:11:07 PuffTheMagic: In the Updating phase or the Loading phase? Sep 07 07:11:18 in the phase with the progress bar Sep 07 07:11:30 both have a progress bar Sep 07 07:11:30 where is parses/loads each feed Sep 07 07:11:41 the determinant bar Sep 07 07:11:44 does it say "Updating" or "Loading" ? Sep 07 07:11:55 when its loading Sep 07 07:11:58 pretty sure loading Sep 07 07:11:58 it should say each feed below it Sep 07 07:12:00 loading is the slower part for me Sep 07 07:12:05 loading dynamicly would make the app usable while everything is loading Sep 07 07:12:07 with the progress bar Sep 07 07:12:33 kesne: since anything you want to do with the app requires the data, how is that better? Sep 07 07:12:44 true Sep 07 07:12:48 Load faster feeds first Sep 07 07:12:51 then do precentral Sep 07 07:13:09 in the background you mean? Sep 07 07:13:14 yes Sep 07 07:13:16 can you even do that in mojo Sep 07 07:13:25 Never tried Sep 07 07:13:25 so the number of available applications on the first screen changes as you're using the app? freaky. Sep 07 07:13:26 javascript is a single thread Sep 07 07:13:38 Freaky? Sep 07 07:13:40 Ah Sep 07 07:13:42 Well Sep 07 07:13:44 No idea Sep 07 07:13:53 how it is in 084 is good i think Sep 07 07:13:54 its fine the way it is Sep 07 07:14:18 it loads within 10 seconds Sep 07 07:14:22 (not counting "updating") Sep 07 07:14:26 but it seems weird that sometimes is fast, others slow Sep 07 07:14:29 do we have a wiki entry on enabling the 5 columns in the launcher? Sep 07 07:14:37 oil: not for me always Sep 07 07:14:44 oil: it's good enough for this round of optimisation. now to get the next set of functionality correct before optimising more. Sep 07 07:15:06 it pauses a bit at precentral cause its the longest Sep 07 07:15:33 as I've said before, then 100 of the 180 PreCentral apps move to Palm's App Catalog, then Preware will be faster. Sep 07 07:15:48 yeah it never takes more than 10 sec for it to load, im good with that Sep 07 07:16:03 wow, my brain was a whole clause ahead of my fingers on that one ... Sep 07 07:16:29 I need to learn to type faster ... Sep 07 07:16:34 rwhitby: i cant really pick 10 games that should go in the palm catalog Sep 07 07:16:45 blocked Sep 07 07:16:46 dot game Sep 07 07:16:48 etc? Sep 07 07:16:48 xD Sep 07 07:17:06 * rwhitby has tried probably 3 apps in total Sep 07 07:17:14 so that's why it spins so long Sep 07 07:17:25 it doesnt spin so long anymore Sep 07 07:17:39 mine's still spinning Sep 07 07:17:45 Robi_: what version? Sep 07 07:17:47 you're probably not running 084 Sep 07 07:17:51 082 Sep 07 07:18:01 ah, old technology. Sep 07 07:18:02 can you fix the boot time instead of preware oil? Sep 07 07:18:14 i just CLI installed it, why is it old? Sep 07 07:18:16 Eguy: if Palm opensources webOS, yes. Sep 07 07:18:29 Robi_: cause you're not doing alpha testing Sep 07 07:18:43 * Robi_ mutters Sep 07 07:18:48 rwhitby: I doubt that but it would be awesome Sep 07 07:19:01 * rwhitby points to the channel logs for alpha testing pointers Sep 07 07:19:06 do we have a wiki entry on enabling the 5 columns in the launcher? Sep 07 07:19:38 there's a patch isn't there? Sep 07 07:19:56 other than not in preware Sep 07 07:20:07 s/other// Sep 07 07:20:12 Robi_ meant: than not in preware Sep 07 07:20:36 bah Sep 07 07:20:50 theres a patch for 4 columns, but here are the instructions on how to do this http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_Launcher_To_Allow_More_Icons_Per_Row Sep 07 07:21:36 * rwhitby bbl Sep 07 07:21:57 theo, thanks, searching for columns doesn't find it ;[ Sep 07 07:22:17 still spinning Sep 07 07:22:41 Robi: np Sep 07 07:23:15 sunnuva that's a lot to cahnge Sep 07 07:23:37 is this one in quilt? Sep 07 07:24:25 shoudl be.. Sep 07 07:24:29 not sure, you can do it with webos quick install Sep 07 07:24:45 i'm not gonna run that Sep 07 07:24:58 here is the page on pre central that show you how to go more in depth, such as 5 across and change text size http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/197811-more-icons-apps-per-page.html Sep 07 07:25:27 first like did 5 too Sep 07 07:25:34 s/like/link Sep 07 07:26:31 lol. thought it was only 4 Sep 07 07:28:01 oil: the show all packages main screen is nice Sep 07 07:28:05 it should be default :D Sep 07 07:28:10 okay i am totally running into a problem Sep 07 07:28:33 lol Sep 07 07:28:36 brb Sep 07 07:28:57 i uninstalled preware and package manager today to update to the new one. now my computer is unable to recognize the pre and the pre wont give me usb mode choices it only goes into charge as if it was plugged into the wall not a computer Sep 07 07:29:02 what's up Jack87 Sep 07 07:29:08 is this common at all? Sep 07 07:29:11 oooops Sep 07 07:29:15 no not at all common Sep 07 07:29:19 Jack87: reboot your pc Sep 07 07:29:31 novacom is indeed running Sep 07 07:29:47 oh yeah time for a reboot, maybe reinstall novacom Sep 07 07:29:57 also try a different usb port Sep 07 07:30:00 have you in fact rebooted the pc.... Sep 07 07:30:03 ? Sep 07 07:30:10 ya twice :( Sep 07 07:30:22 also tried multiple ports and cables Sep 07 07:30:47 that's bad Sep 07 07:30:54 have you tried reinstalling novacom, uninstall first, reboot and then reinstall Sep 07 07:31:00 for kicks im going to try on a different computer.. id you guys are not familiar with this issue. i will report back Sep 07 07:31:14 rwhitby, oil: want to check http://pastebin.com/d277e4dfa see if results make sense, and/or any other test cases you can think of Sep 07 07:31:19 different computer, good idea Sep 07 07:32:19 odd.. Sep 07 07:32:32 i was scared it might of been my usb port on the pre worked fine on my netbook Sep 07 07:32:59 i have had to reinstall novacom before Sep 07 07:33:04 im going to do one for reboot and if fails reinstall novacom i will report back my findings incase it comes up again Sep 07 07:33:12 guys a quick question. I disabled update after getting 1.2 firmware. Now when i try to do a partial erase or full erase nothing happens. Is this related? I wanted to test 1.2 so i made a new profile but now since i like it i want to get my old profile back so i can have some apps from palm app catalog. Sep 07 07:33:14 any help? Sep 07 07:34:00 havent tried to do an erase since going to 1.2 Sep 07 07:34:23 so you have the phones msl?? Sep 07 07:34:33 *do Sep 07 07:34:41 no why? Sep 07 07:34:59 you could try a ##RTN# if you had it Sep 07 07:36:05 well that may be another option. but if my disabling update has anything to do with it then it wont let me i guess Sep 07 07:36:41 but i will call tomorrow to get MSL from sprint. This sucks. No pandora. Imagine my day :) Sep 07 07:36:43 ##RTN# should go through regardless Sep 07 07:37:15 it works even before the phone gets programmed Sep 07 07:37:43 Zuchmir2: line #15 Sep 07 07:38:07 nevermind Sep 07 07:38:16 you can get your msl online Sep 07 07:38:31 #16 ( 0.5.4 >= 0.6.0 ) Sep 07 07:38:45 should be false? Sep 07 07:38:48 if you have another sprint phone to swap, then yes Sep 07 07:39:14 nevermind Sep 07 07:39:20 it looks good to me Sep 07 07:39:24 idk about rwhitby Sep 07 07:39:31 swap the pre for another phone, then swap that phone for the pre and it will give you the msl Sep 07 07:39:44 yup Sep 07 07:39:51 I did it that way Sep 07 07:40:01 * freakout wonders just how pretentious it is to quote Dickens when blogging about Palm. Sep 07 07:40:14 i can? how?i got my old 755p Sep 07 07:40:27 www.sprint.com/activate Sep 07 07:40:38 get the esn of your pre and 755p and swap Sep 07 07:40:42 oil: 1st param is current, 2nd param is NEW package, as such new is > old on #16 Sep 07 07:40:48 ok Sep 07 07:40:50 thx Sep 07 07:40:52 then swap back Sep 07 07:40:54 let me try Sep 07 07:40:55 yes that will work Sep 07 07:41:11 I have done it a few times on various phones Sep 07 07:41:30 do you have your sprint account set up online?? Sep 07 07:42:27 yeah. u mean login and check mins pay bill right? Sep 07 07:42:38 yeah Sep 07 07:43:02 next to the picture of your phone it will say activate new phone, click that and it will walk you through the rest Sep 07 07:43:10 ok Sep 07 07:43:29 so once swapped phone where do i get msl? Sep 07 07:43:31 heh It says I have a $150 discount on a new phone....I don't think so Sep 07 07:43:36 it will give you it Sep 07 07:43:39 Zuchmir2, rwhitby must not be here Sep 07 07:43:40 on a web page Sep 07 07:43:47 it looks ok to me though Sep 07 07:43:51 it will say 2 program numbers Sep 07 07:44:05 if its on the web site than more than likely it didnt reset in the system so it probably will Sep 07 07:44:17 heads up theo Sep 07 07:44:37 jack87: whats up Sep 07 07:44:48 when swaping phones between pre and another it causes issues on sprint's network Sep 07 07:45:06 What type? Sep 07 07:45:15 you just call sprint ask about swapping phones and write the msl down and hang up dont swap your phone Sep 07 07:45:22 full screeeeching brakes........... what????????????? Sep 07 07:45:27 I never had trouble.... Sep 07 07:45:27 :O Sep 07 07:45:42 i havent heard of that, im still in contact with all the sprint techs i used to work with, what kind of problems Sep 07 07:46:02 gad I hate rebooting Sep 07 07:46:05 Sources? Sep 07 07:46:14 hahahahah rebooting takes forever Sep 07 07:46:45 it caused my phone to not get internet signale Sep 07 07:46:47 r they up now at this time? i mean the ones who are in USA and not the one in India who i have to explain MSL number Sep 07 07:46:55 than swapped back to centro and centro did not have it Sep 07 07:47:06 it could have been due to the phone you swapped to, what was the other phone?? Sep 07 07:47:08 it screwed up the vision account Sep 07 07:47:21 you just have to re provision the phone Sep 07 07:47:25 very easy Sep 07 07:47:27 rtn fixed it though Sep 07 07:48:14 so when doing so going back to pre if you dont get internet on it than ##RTN# will fix it Sep 07 07:48:23 but just a heads up :) Sep 07 07:48:38 oil: just pushed it Sep 07 07:48:53 RTN requires msl Sep 07 07:49:17 only a reset does Sep 07 07:49:25 its probably because the centro is not rev A evdo Sep 07 07:49:35 OH DEAR GOD Sep 07 07:49:41 my Pre just oreo'd Sep 07 07:49:51 oh shit. im sorry eguy Sep 07 07:49:53 Zuchmir2: id say its probably good to go as 085 for general release Sep 07 07:49:57 lol dunk it in milk and call it a day Sep 07 07:49:58 Mmmmm. Cream in the middle? Sep 07 07:50:04 double stuff Sep 07 07:50:11 You know how I love cream. Sep 07 07:50:14 I was closing it and it slid to the side Sep 07 07:50:18 ok Sep 07 07:50:24 oh ya Sep 07 07:50:30 third reboot fixed it Sep 07 07:50:37 I don't want to exchange it :( I put an invisible shield on it Sep 07 07:50:39 so usb modes pop up now Sep 07 07:50:43 wait wait wait wait Sep 07 07:50:48 pulse pulse pulse pulse Sep 07 07:51:17 3 reboots? I am sorry to hear that. How many years did that take? Sep 07 07:52:55 it was the third reboot for the computer Sep 07 07:53:02 oh Sep 07 07:53:04 the pre i did about 5 with not luck Sep 07 07:53:12 oh man Sep 07 07:53:18 I am really sorry ot hear that Sep 07 07:53:20 haha but my pre boots fairly quick from 1min-1.5 Sep 07 07:53:31 they all do Sep 07 07:53:36 1.2 really did pick up the pace on the reboots though Sep 07 07:53:38 but it seems like eternity Sep 07 07:53:49 why did so many people do the 1.2 update already Sep 07 07:53:50 lol Sep 07 07:53:55 just wait for this week Sep 07 07:54:17 oil 8.4 much love Sep 07 07:54:19 i was to anxious after mw and i got the led notifications to work...lol Sep 07 07:54:21 good good good Sep 07 07:54:36 hahaha Sep 07 07:54:42 haha i did web os doc last week because my pre would take 5min-10 with the accelservice (sorry eguy) if only i knew thats all i had to remove at the time Sep 07 07:55:15 hah Sep 07 07:55:39 It's not a limited # of apps, its a space limit. The var partition is a 32mb partition, best I can tell. Sep 07 07:55:43 LOL Sep 07 07:55:50 O rly? Sep 07 08:00:08 eguy.. Sep 07 08:00:15 yes sir Sep 07 08:00:27 if its a space limitation why is it that preware and webos quick install can override it and continue to install apps Sep 07 08:00:52 They use a different method of installation Sep 07 08:00:53 there are two different limitations. Sep 07 08:01:08 and preware is the medicine! Sep 07 08:01:12 preware has ONLY a space limitation Sep 07 08:01:16 Let rick talk some sense Sep 07 08:01:17 I dont understand though.. never the less its going to a 32mb partition? Sep 07 08:01:24 no 32mb Sep 07 08:01:27 he was wrong Sep 07 08:01:30 :) Sep 07 08:01:31 it's 256mb Sep 07 08:01:37 the palm-install.bat and comparable methods use a palm process that has a different artificial limitation Sep 07 08:02:17 do we know that that artificial limitation is? Sep 07 08:02:18 is there no way to change the default installation path variable for the system Sep 07 08:02:36 theo short answer: no Sep 07 08:02:40 It's called beta app catalog Sep 07 08:03:25 yeah i have search through a lot of files to find where the variable is defined and cant find it, but you also know quite a bit more about this Sep 07 08:03:35 jason has a secret panel that will allow you to use quick install to put apps in media dir Sep 07 08:03:39 Jack87: I don't know that anyone has reverse engineered it Sep 07 08:04:08 you can symlink Sep 07 08:04:14 Zuchmir2: looks good to me Sep 07 08:04:18 we shouldn't "have" to do anything Sep 07 08:04:25 everything should "work" Sep 07 08:04:25 the only clear place i can see it come up is in the luna.conf file Sep 07 08:04:32 We should not need patches Sep 07 08:04:53 should shouls should Sep 07 08:04:57 this is the real world. Sep 07 08:04:58 if there werent patches what would we talk about Sep 07 08:05:06 crap Sep 07 08:05:10 lol Sep 07 08:05:11 ok... and it did need the bounds checking Sep 07 08:05:17 the weather Sep 07 08:05:22 it otherwise gave an NaN Sep 07 08:05:24 life, in general Sep 07 08:05:24 we shouldnt need to patch for new pages in launcher either Sep 07 08:05:25 lol Sep 07 08:05:45 we could talk about how slow the boot time is Sep 07 08:05:50 i am in hope that future updates will remove this limit Sep 07 08:06:00 It's flash memory for christ sake Sep 07 08:06:03 has anyone been able to test it with 1.2? Sep 07 08:06:14 It is still there Jack Sep 07 08:06:18 test what, the app limit?? Sep 07 08:06:23 yes Sep 07 08:06:31 bummer eguy :( Sep 07 08:06:33 Still there Sep 07 08:06:45 I bet once the catalog comes out of beta it will go away Sep 07 08:07:06 im sure they will remove it, it would be damaging to them not to Sep 07 08:07:14 yeah Sep 07 08:07:40 especially if there will be more then 50 apps or how ever many there are today in the catalog Sep 07 08:07:53 here is a question Sep 07 08:07:59 just like half of the stuff the is disabled in the leaked 1.2 will hopefully be enable when it is released Sep 07 08:08:12 hopefully Sep 07 08:08:13 LOL Sep 07 08:08:15 kinda uncool i hope you guys dont look at me as a pirate becasue thats not the goal Sep 07 08:08:17 this is palm Sep 07 08:08:27 true Sep 07 08:08:33 whats up jack?? Sep 07 08:08:41 did you steal windows 7? Sep 07 08:08:42 how does classic app keep a demo going Sep 07 08:08:51 and what is needed to get full version Sep 07 08:09:00 is it a cd key or a new download of the app Sep 07 08:09:09 no cd key Sep 07 08:09:10 well not cd key but ya know Sep 07 08:09:15 there is no classic cd Sep 07 08:09:16 * rwhitby bbiab Sep 07 08:09:16 ;) Sep 07 08:09:27 well it would be illegal to discuss that Sep 07 08:09:28 how do you unlock it Sep 07 08:09:42 i downloaded i windows 7 from ms, they gave it to me Sep 07 08:09:47 me too Sep 07 08:09:50 ;) Sep 07 08:10:01 I got it for free for being a tester Sep 07 08:10:04 illigale how Sep 07 08:10:07 I love it Sep 07 08:10:10 so did i Sep 07 08:10:17 oh yeah, im very impressed with it Sep 07 08:10:19 not a single hickup Sep 07 08:10:24 no bsod's Sep 07 08:10:27 no crashes Sep 07 08:10:33 it is what vista should have been Sep 07 08:10:39 It locks up if I have a flash movie sometimes Sep 07 08:10:40 for the closed source apps going into catalog it be good to know to allow people to make demos Sep 07 08:11:03 It is illegal to discuss removing activation of an app Sep 07 08:11:05 im not asking for the dirt under the hood lol Sep 07 08:11:12 i was amazed at the hardware support, have a custom built pc and didnt need to install a single driver Sep 07 08:11:19 i didnt say anything about removal Sep 07 08:11:21 same theo Sep 07 08:11:34 except I went and downloaded the latest drivers anyway Sep 07 08:11:38 out of habit Sep 07 08:11:47 im asking how do they turn demo into full Sep 07 08:11:50 my fingerprint reader software doesn't work so well though Sep 07 08:12:03 serial number or a new download or does itchange internl files for the app Sep 07 08:12:06 oh MotionApps has the app communicate through their servers Sep 07 08:12:12 serial number Sep 07 08:12:15 oh did you know the installer for novacom inside of webos 1.2 doesnt need to be modified, they fixed that problem Sep 07 08:12:28 Yeah I need that msi Sep 07 08:12:51 so does it verify theactualy pre to the app or the palm account with their servers? Sep 07 08:13:09 serial number of the pre Sep 07 08:13:26 It's pretty locked down Sep 07 08:13:29 what about for users who get a newweb os device or change pre Sep 07 08:13:42 You probably just email them Sep 07 08:13:43 Jack87: our intention is to have "premium services" operate with a critical component on our servers, and verify serial number when submitting the request. Sep 07 08:13:43 would suck to pay another 30 bucks Sep 07 08:14:01 "basic free" version will be useable not not have the fancy services of the paid version, which is cloud dependent. Sep 07 08:14:10 http://forums.precentral.net/general-webos-chat/200598-please-help-me-virtual-keyboard-install.html aunt minnie has returned Sep 07 08:14:30 Rod went easy on him Sep 07 08:14:33 *applause* Sep 07 08:14:46 Jack87: if you swap pre's email us from your registered email and we will reply with an unlock code that one-time registeres your new serial number and disables your old one. Sep 07 08:14:56 ^what he said Sep 07 08:15:04 i see Sep 07 08:15:06 eguy have you downloaded the 1.2 Sep 07 08:15:15 Negatory Sep 07 08:15:20 i wonder if in the future you can link catalog apps to your palm account Sep 07 08:15:25 I am waiting like a good boy ;) Sep 07 08:15:34 Jack87: that's OUR companies plan ,,, we'll see how it does in the real world. Sep 07 08:15:43 Jack: they added credit card support in 1.2 so yes Sep 07 08:16:08 i dunno if credit card support is same as what im talking about Sep 07 08:16:25 Explain Sep 07 08:16:30 sorry rick i hope you didnt misinterpit my questions Sep 07 08:16:48 i am speaking of linking paid apps to palm account not linking payment to palm account Sep 07 08:17:10 Oh, that I don't know about Sep 07 08:17:13 such as when changing phones logging in with your new account and being able to use all your paid apps without the hassel of contacting devs Sep 07 08:17:22 rick says he is hopeful Sep 07 08:18:08 i only ask for ideas of other devs to be abele to provide a demo and a way to unlock demo when paid for Sep 07 08:18:12 I would imagine so Sep 07 08:18:19 well.... I have no idea how linking to a palm account would work from a dev perspective. Sep 07 08:18:24 there's been no mention of that Sep 07 08:18:31 so for the time being I suspect the answer is "no" Sep 07 08:19:10 from a dev perspective wouldnt it make life much easier Sep 07 08:19:48 payment made with one account automaticaly unlocks full version to that account and from here on out that account has access to the app with no need to contact vendor Sep 07 08:20:04 all seemless :) Sep 07 08:20:37 it would Sep 07 08:20:39 are you a dev? Sep 07 08:20:43 but there's been NO discussion of it Sep 07 08:20:46 ok Sep 07 08:20:49 0330 off to bed Sep 07 08:20:52 gnight all Sep 07 08:21:03 * Eguy waves at rick Sep 07 08:21:39 goodnight] Sep 07 08:21:43 asking me eguy? Sep 07 08:21:52 Yes sir Sep 07 08:21:52 not yet. Sep 07 08:22:07 What do you wish to make? Sep 07 08:22:27 im not sure yet Sep 07 08:22:43 i would preffer to stay on the homebrew end of things to be honest Sep 07 08:22:58 i guess as soon as i find out what type of apps palm will not accept.. Sep 07 08:23:24 (not porn) Sep 07 08:24:00 is the app catalog down for anyone right now?? Sep 07 08:24:01 the homebrew apps now are just catalog apps waiting for the doors to open Sep 07 08:24:21 not all Sep 07 08:24:35 very select few are not Sep 07 08:24:55 catalog is working theo Sep 07 08:25:06 anyone ever notice teh weird scrolling in the launcher? Sep 07 08:25:11 go to the far left or right Sep 07 08:25:15 then flick it to the side it wont go Sep 07 08:25:22 then flick down fast in the gray area Sep 07 08:25:25 lol Sep 07 08:25:47 what do you mean oil Sep 07 08:25:56 like Sep 07 08:25:58 go to the first page Sep 07 08:26:00 I hate the pixelated nonsense in the web browser Sep 07 08:26:20 then try and flick like you're going to a page before it Sep 07 08:26:21 that isnt there Sep 07 08:26:26 and when the icons are on the side Sep 07 08:26:32 flick up or down in the grey area Sep 07 08:26:35 where there are no icons Sep 07 08:26:57 flicking up really looks weird Sep 07 08:27:09 and it stays up a bit Sep 07 08:27:10 i dont think i am seeing it Sep 07 08:27:22 are you trying it on the pre? Sep 07 08:27:22 * Eguy is too lazy to grab the pre off the puck Sep 07 08:27:25 theo you have 1.2 right? or who does/ Sep 07 08:27:29 yes Sep 07 08:27:39 ok can you test costco.com for me Sep 07 08:27:45 and samsclub.com Sep 07 08:27:47 woah accidential closage Sep 07 08:27:48 I am putting my money on wednesday Sep 07 08:27:56 jack Sep 07 08:27:58 go to the first page Sep 07 08:28:01 in your launcher Sep 07 08:28:03 yeah Sep 07 08:28:10 now swipe the icons to the right Sep 07 08:28:18 like you're going to a page in front of it that doesnt exist Sep 07 08:28:24 and it kind of bounces to the right then comes back Sep 07 08:28:32 on the left, where there are on icons while they're bouncing on the right Sep 07 08:28:33 ya Sep 07 08:28:35 Jack87: what am i looking for?? Sep 07 08:28:36 swipe up or down Sep 07 08:28:48 theo... does it render the entiresite Sep 07 08:29:01 on mine it does not show the top menues or goes all white at times Sep 07 08:29:21 oh i see it Sep 07 08:29:25 yeah looks like there is an issue with the header Sep 07 08:29:26 wow that is weird oil Sep 07 08:29:34 those two sites Sep 07 08:29:42 i dunno why but they dont like to load with pre browser Sep 07 08:29:54 yeah idk Sep 07 08:29:56 has anyone ran into any other similar issues Sep 07 08:29:57 i did it on accident Sep 07 08:30:00 and though ti looked funny Sep 07 08:30:17 * freakout wonders what oil is smoking Sep 07 08:30:23 * freakout wonders if he can have some...? Sep 07 08:30:24 it doesnt do it in the emu Sep 07 08:30:26 i tryed it Sep 07 08:30:38 It's castrol syntec Sep 07 08:30:39 question still stands. :D Sep 07 08:30:39 preware 0.8.5 now in the testing feed. I need someone who has *not* updated ipkgservice to alpha to test it so we can check the api version check ... Sep 07 08:30:46 oil Sep 07 08:30:50 it broke my launcher Sep 07 08:30:51 rwhitby: i did test that Sep 07 08:31:01 oil: yeah, but you and I are special :-) Sep 07 08:31:03 how so jack? Sep 07 08:31:16 My pre just exploded Sep 07 08:31:20 oil: I always get someone else here to test before the public release Sep 07 08:31:22 i have to take a screen shot its weird Sep 07 08:31:30 im sure a reboot will fix it not worried Sep 07 08:31:32 i'm on the latest ipkg, so no help to you Sep 07 08:31:35 lol Sep 07 08:31:36 I ran the sudo takeoverworld.sh Sep 07 08:31:39 *ipkgservice Sep 07 08:31:43 didn't go well Sep 07 08:31:48 how many of you use "advanced gestures"? Sep 07 08:31:53 I do! Sep 07 08:31:53 yeah im also on 0.8.5 Sep 07 08:31:55 i do Sep 07 08:31:57 I use them while driving all the time Sep 07 08:31:58 i tried it when i first got it Sep 07 08:32:00 but didnt like it Sep 07 08:32:03 and i turned it on last week Sep 07 08:32:06 and find it really useful Sep 07 08:32:10 freakout lies! Sep 07 08:32:19 maybe its because now i know how to use the gesture area better Sep 07 08:32:24 at first i would always screw up Sep 07 08:32:27 trying to go back a page Sep 07 08:32:28 and switch apps Sep 07 08:32:35 oil: have you ever thrown the launcher back down? Sep 07 08:32:37 its super nice though Sep 07 08:32:47 yeah Sep 07 08:32:53 im talking about the full-swipe to switch apps Sep 07 08:32:56 ha i fixied it. Sep 07 08:32:56 It's laggy but cool Sep 07 08:32:58 and half-swipe to go back Sep 07 08:32:59 so weird oil Sep 07 08:33:01 I know Sep 07 08:33:34 do you know? Sep 07 08:33:36 i dont think you know Sep 07 08:33:48 hey, when you go to space you gain 1-2 inches Sep 07 08:33:57 rwhitby: you are talking about 0.8.5 correct?? Sep 07 08:33:59 .....on your spine Sep 07 08:34:02 Egal: in your pants? Sep 07 08:34:06 preware 0.8.5 Sep 07 08:34:15 ipkg < 0.8.5 Sep 07 08:34:26 freakout: are you able to work your end-user changelog magic on the wiki page for preware 0.8.5 ? Sep 07 08:34:31 (it should tell you the version isnt compatible) Sep 07 08:34:34 ok, yeah im out Sep 07 08:34:37 get to work freakout Sep 07 08:34:41 lol Sep 07 08:34:51 * freakout fears the lash of rwhitby's cattle prod Sep 07 08:34:52 but with 085 it should work fine Sep 07 08:34:54 with preware 085 Sep 07 08:34:56 Which we all know he has. Sep 07 08:35:12 He uses it on oil to make new versions of Preware Sep 07 08:35:19 freakout has to work for his scoops Sep 07 08:35:19 lol Sep 07 08:35:23 where is a quick placei can uploadpic and get a link to post Sep 07 08:35:31 * oil is allowed to sleep tonight? Sep 07 08:35:34 imageshack Sep 07 08:35:36 tinypic Sep 07 08:35:37 I'll do it now, heading off for pub triva shortly. :D Sep 07 08:35:48 without signing up for shit that is Sep 07 08:35:53 tinypic Sep 07 08:35:56 either Sep 07 08:35:58 tinypic Sep 07 08:36:41 what is this crap, my wallpaper changed to a baby...I don't want to look at this Sep 07 08:36:46 http://tinypic.com/r/ncjw4z/3 Sep 07 08:36:53 * Eguy waits for 30 minutes for the next wallpaper Sep 07 08:37:00 lol Sep 07 08:37:00 yeah Sep 07 08:37:03 lol what did you do Sep 07 08:37:11 if you notice my launcher is stuck up Sep 07 08:37:13 that happens if you scroll up on the side Sep 07 08:37:16 woah there Sep 07 08:37:17 cant access top level apps Sep 07 08:37:17 you have to down scroll Sep 07 08:37:22 after doing it to the side Sep 07 08:37:26 that is a bug alright Sep 07 08:37:37 ya down scrolled it fixed it.. funny Sep 07 08:37:41 does anyone use sprint navigation? Sep 07 08:37:47 i used it once Sep 07 08:37:49 only if i have to Sep 07 08:37:51 well Sep 07 08:37:51 I think it is the worst thing ever Sep 07 08:37:53 once just to test it Sep 07 08:37:57 once to actually get somewhere Sep 07 08:38:00 hum i guess i am not seeing what you were doing after all oil Sep 07 08:38:01 it gave shitty directions Sep 07 08:38:06 I fear using anything though because the battery dies instantly Sep 07 08:38:18 it works well as long as there are no one way street to send me down Sep 07 08:38:23 the battery life is so poor Sep 07 08:38:25 i used it today for fun it worked well Sep 07 08:38:29 * freakout is waiting for TomTom on webOS Sep 07 08:38:34 booo Sep 07 08:38:37 Garmin ftw Sep 07 08:38:37 * freakout <3's TomTom Sep 07 08:38:38 * oil likes free Sep 07 08:38:38 oh yes Sep 07 08:38:43 and by free Sep 07 08:38:47 i mean included in my bill Sep 07 08:38:48 I <3 my nuvi Sep 07 08:38:57 * freakout wrestles Eguy to ground, delivers noogie Sep 07 08:39:00 touch stone in car eguy Sep 07 08:39:02 :) Sep 07 08:39:13 with junctionn view and lane assist Sep 07 08:39:26 i loved garmin on htc touch Sep 07 08:39:30 Jack: we shouldn't "have" to Sep 07 08:39:34 maybe one day we will see it on the pre Sep 07 08:39:38 the battery should last longer Sep 07 08:39:46 I used Mobile XT on my Centro Sep 07 08:40:03 laggy though Sep 07 08:40:11 i couldnt justify buying the gps reciver for the pre Sep 07 08:40:17 i mean centro sorry Sep 07 08:40:21 ah Sep 07 08:40:26 I got the keychain one Sep 07 08:40:28 Preware 0.8.5 is released Sep 07 08:40:32 yay Sep 07 08:40:32 gah Sep 07 08:40:34 already Sep 07 08:40:37 http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1874721&posted=1#post1874689 Sep 07 08:40:37 uh oh Sep 07 08:40:39 look at that post Sep 07 08:40:41 and then my post Sep 07 08:40:42 getting now Sep 07 08:40:42 I just updated to the old one Sep 07 08:40:43 and then the next post Sep 07 08:40:46 WTF? Sep 07 08:41:03 lol fail Sep 07 08:41:19 Rod you ware way too nice Sep 07 08:41:30 I would of said go and code the "crap" yourself Sep 07 08:41:49 stupid noobies Sep 07 08:41:54 Eguy has clearly never felt the Prod of Pain Sep 07 08:42:02 lol, i bet he doesnt have the ipkg installed Sep 07 08:42:12 My mommy beat me daily freakout Sep 07 08:42:33 have we confirmed updating preware from preware works well? Sep 07 08:42:34 eguy: mine still does.... Sep 07 08:42:35 good for her Sep 07 08:42:39 (not really) Sep 07 08:42:43 should be twice daily Sep 07 08:42:45 hahah Sep 07 08:42:46 lol Sep 07 08:42:53 oil was obviously abused Sep 07 08:42:59 i was Sep 07 08:43:00 i fucked up Sep 07 08:43:03 thats a beating Sep 07 08:43:09 kids nowadays get away with too much Sep 07 08:43:12 need to be put in their place Sep 07 08:43:20 agreed Sep 07 08:43:44 I say we implant them with cyborg control chips Sep 07 08:43:45 lol Sep 07 08:43:55 then they'll do as they're told. Sep 07 08:43:56 it did not even do the progress bar Sep 07 08:44:03 it just went to the main page Sep 07 08:44:10 that super fast? Sep 07 08:44:14 yup Sep 07 08:44:24 however Sep 07 08:44:29 I am on wifi Sep 07 08:44:37 and I have a 30mbit connection Sep 07 08:44:38 rwhitby: is it accurate to say "ipkgservice now checks api-version" Sep 07 08:44:40 Jack87: updating Preware (the app) from Preware is fine. Sep 07 08:44:43 so don't judge me lol Sep 07 08:44:48 lol Sep 07 08:44:56 freakout: ipkgservice supplies the apiVersion which Preware checks. Sep 07 08:45:04 gotcha Sep 07 08:45:25 * Eguy is still waiting for dependancy and postinstalls of services Sep 07 08:45:29 anyday now oil Sep 07 08:45:39 ;) Sep 07 08:45:56 Eguy: we had to deal with all these weenies asking for it to be faster first - oh, hang on, that was you, wasn't it ;-) Sep 07 08:46:04 hahaha Sep 07 08:46:07 lol Sep 07 08:46:15 I never asked for it to be faster Sep 07 08:46:49 * rwhitby doesn't bother running grep on the channel logs, cause he knows who is right. Sep 07 08:46:50 I still use cli for most things, I am too old for gui stuff Sep 07 08:46:55 hahahah Sep 07 08:46:57 freakout: let me know if you get a response from that email earlier Sep 07 08:47:20 i will Sep 07 08:47:34 there we go, wiki updated Sep 07 08:47:54 bbt, or maybe later tonight. Sep 07 08:48:04 I think I am going to retire Sep 07 08:48:07 tonight Sep 07 08:48:17 Eguy: regarding the guy who posted crap, I've found that the best way to make some who is irate even more irate is to be calm and rational with them - they usually hate that. Sep 07 08:48:26 freakout: thx Sep 07 08:48:30 rwhitby: hear hear Sep 07 08:48:37 Yes rwhitby Sep 07 08:48:42 Touche Sep 07 08:48:50 there is one troll on PIC who refuses to die and seems to have made it his personal mission to cyberstalk me Sep 07 08:48:55 I like you thinking Sep 07 08:49:03 cannot be dealt with by logic or reason Sep 07 08:49:04 Oh sorry about that freakout Sep 07 08:49:10 LOL Sep 07 08:49:11 YOU!!! Sep 07 08:49:16 freakout: im pretty sure i know who youre talking about Sep 07 08:49:18 No it isn't hahahah Sep 07 08:49:22 pretty sure he is a tool Sep 07 08:49:24 * freakout leaps through cyberspace and throttles egal Sep 07 08:49:30 goes by "jca666us" Sep 07 08:49:42 Haven't seen that guy Sep 07 08:49:50 Consider yourself fortunate. Sep 07 08:49:53 yes Sep 07 08:50:01 I guess I am Sep 07 08:50:02 My editor is too kind and won't ban Sep 07 08:50:10 but i digress. Really leaving now! Sep 07 08:50:17 tata Sep 07 08:50:25 the one who was attempting to look intelligent with his post about webos "open-ness" Sep 07 08:50:31 ugh Sep 07 08:50:34 lol Sep 07 08:51:08 again.... TOOL Sep 07 08:51:13 that's just a small taste. there are novel-length threads where it flies in the face of reality Sep 07 08:51:27 I know a tool Sep 07 08:51:29 Funniest part? constantly goes on about how amazing Apple's App Store is and how they're the greatest company on Earth Sep 07 08:51:39 Yet admits that he's jailbroken his iPhone. Sep 07 08:51:42 oh there are a bunch on P|C like that Sep 07 08:51:49 that would explain why he trolls a palm site Sep 07 08:52:00 Anyone who buys an apple product is a tool, I am sorry Sep 07 08:52:05 yeah. It's like if Apple are so awesome how come you're not happy to live by their rules? Sep 07 08:52:11 You drank the koolaid Sep 07 08:52:26 yes. anyways. Bye! for the third time Sep 07 08:52:38 hey eguy Sep 07 08:52:40 i run mac man! Sep 07 08:52:43 i enjoy the os, but will not purchase a pc that i cannot customize Sep 07 08:52:46 no not really Sep 07 08:52:46 * oil is going to sleeps Sep 07 08:52:47 later Sep 07 08:52:53 but its on my acer Sep 07 08:52:56 lol Sep 07 08:52:57 :) Sep 07 08:52:59 hahahah Sep 07 08:53:05 i think i told you the story last night Sep 07 08:53:05 os x86 eh Sep 07 08:53:09 i do the same Jack Sep 07 08:53:11 :) yuppers Sep 07 08:53:22 I have tiger for x86 my leopard one didn't run well Sep 07 08:53:22 tri boot 7, osx, and linux Sep 07 08:53:28 i did add a apple stick on the back of screen to be legale Sep 07 08:53:37 can only run mac on apple branded computers Sep 07 08:53:40 lol Sep 07 08:53:43 lol Sep 07 08:53:57 I have a MBP btw just so you don't think I am a hater Sep 07 08:53:57 leopard is running great for me 10.5.5 Sep 07 08:54:12 anyway i returned my ipod to buy the netbook :) Sep 07 08:54:15 rwhitby: 0.8.5 running well Sep 07 08:54:28 Good move jack Sep 07 08:54:35 085 running well here too Sep 07 08:55:04 you and oil went through a few versions today, thanks for the hard work Sep 07 08:55:07 hey rod new preware rocks Sep 07 08:55:15 loads super fast Sep 07 08:55:22 or maybe its the progress bar ;;) Sep 07 08:55:40 no it does actually load faster Sep 07 08:55:41 oil did all the hard lifting. I did a 20 line change to the service to pass the raw data up to oil instead of parsing anything in java. Sep 07 08:55:54 it is kinda hypnotizing Sep 07 08:55:58 oil rod appreciate it Sep 07 08:56:10 good job guys Sep 07 08:56:16 now we return to improving functionality instead of speed. Sep 07 08:56:35 Yeehaw Sep 07 08:56:42 any way to filter out feeds? Sep 07 08:56:48 do you think the background update will make the next release or two?? Sep 07 08:57:01 Jack87: yep. rm -f /var/etc/ipkg/.conf Sep 07 08:57:16 theo: probably not Sep 07 08:57:22 with in preware that is.. sorry for not specifying Sep 07 08:57:35 Jack87: nope. on the roadmap. Sep 07 08:57:59 well when it gets here that will be awesome Sep 07 08:58:01 very nice Sep 07 08:58:37 if its as simple as a command like that rod... Sep 07 08:58:50 ahhh finally facebook works with opera again Sep 07 08:58:56 anyone know who is doing the theme changer app?? Sep 07 08:59:05 anoutsider Sep 07 08:59:06 would it be easy to have a way to run a script through the touch of a menu button Sep 07 08:59:09 and someone else Sep 07 08:59:22 oerhaps something similar to the time/alpha sort Sep 07 08:59:23 Jack87: Preware is about making applications more available, not disabling feeds ;-) Sep 07 08:59:38 i thought i heard something would be out within a week or 2 Sep 07 08:59:40 not talking about disabling anything Sep 07 08:59:53 its about viewing sertain feeds Sep 07 09:00:03 you can do that jack Sep 07 09:00:03 Jack87: oh, you just want to group by feed? that's already there. Sep 07 09:00:07 finally new wallpaper Sep 07 09:00:18 oh. what am i not seeing Sep 07 09:00:24 the preference Sep 07 09:00:28 oh i see it Sep 07 09:00:29 haha Sep 07 09:00:40 available apps Sep 07 09:00:47 instead of catagory at the bottom simple as fee Sep 07 09:00:54 feed* Sep 07 09:00:57 haha silly me Sep 07 09:01:12 loading this? Sep 07 09:01:17 What if I want to load that Sep 07 09:02:43 why is tipcalc and dali clock in the webosinternals feed? Sep 07 09:02:50 oh eguy, i love the new taskbar also, ton more effecient Sep 07 09:03:03 theo: yes and the thumbnails Sep 07 09:03:07 Eguy: cause webosinternals is the distribution mechanism of choice for Jamie Zawinski Sep 07 09:03:13 ah Sep 07 09:03:41 whats jamie's story to web os Sep 07 09:03:42 heh lots of AMG Mercs at the ring today Sep 07 09:03:47 he released that than disapeared Sep 07 09:03:55 he is a key open source advocate (google his name) and Palm wanted him to remove his open source apps from his website to submit them to the App Catalog. He refused. Sep 07 09:04:09 wootage Sep 07 09:04:19 Way to stand up to the man Jamie Sep 07 09:04:21 i know who he is. but he disapeared Sep 07 09:04:33 Palm snatched him and beat him up probably Sep 07 09:04:43 you will put your apps in the catalog Sep 07 09:04:43 or he's busy running a night club :P Sep 07 09:05:01 lol i just read about that also Sep 07 09:05:07 Jamie runs Preware exclusively now :-) Sep 07 09:05:13 Computer nerd + night club = ????? Sep 07 09:05:23 a lot of disco balls Sep 07 09:05:32 and lasers Sep 07 09:05:44 I first worked with him back in the XEmacs days. Sep 07 09:06:01 can you linkme to his site containing web os apps... i have lost it and cant find it Sep 07 09:06:50 Similar situation, actually. I had a vc-clearcase.el package that I submitted to Stallman, but Stallman refused to accept it on the grounds that it (a package that made a multi-thousand dollar commercial version control package work with Emacs) might reduce the usage of RCS. Sep 07 09:07:10 I talked to Jamie about adding it to XEmacs, and he said "Sure, why not?" Sep 07 09:07:39 You lost me now Sep 07 09:07:47 me to Sep 07 09:07:57 It was then that I truly realised the distinction between open source advocates and open source zealots. Sep 07 09:08:09 He is very outspoken though, this Jamie Sep 07 09:08:27 He sure speaks his mind Sep 07 09:08:31 and codes it Sep 07 09:08:39 (this was back in '89) Sep 07 09:08:43 he seems cool yet arrogant Sep 07 09:08:58 bbt... 5 in the am here better try and get some shut eye Sep 07 09:09:09 he's has his usenet group Sep 07 09:09:19 The only practical way to contact me is through email. I hate telephones. Sep 07 09:09:19 night theo Sep 07 09:09:20 HAHAHA Sep 07 09:09:29 He hates the Pre??? Sep 07 09:09:32 awww :( Sep 07 09:09:35 i better get some sleep i didnt realize the time. i want to go for a ride in the morning Sep 07 09:09:40 well, he did write the mozilla browser which later became firefox ... he can afford to be opinionated ;-) Sep 07 09:10:08 opinionated sure arrogant... eh Sep 07 09:10:18 still respect the guys work though very much Sep 07 09:10:26 Meh...firefox Sep 07 09:10:30 bloated Sep 07 09:10:39 It was okay untill 1.5 Sep 07 09:10:44 i like firefox.. its no chrome Sep 07 09:10:51 every ff release is a little worse Sep 07 09:10:57 it's not quite as bad as firebug Sep 07 09:10:58 nod Sep 07 09:11:00 i loved that fact that it ran right out of a folder no need to install Sep 07 09:11:10 Eguy: he wrote it when it was still Netscape Navigator. Sep 07 09:11:11 not like that anymore :( Sep 07 09:11:11 where every firebug release is just atrociously worse than the last Sep 07 09:11:16 Opera just keeps getting better Sep 07 09:11:25 I used Netscape Navigator back in the day Sep 07 09:11:26 rwhitby: he did the *nix port, he didn't write it Sep 07 09:11:38 well back in the day in reference to Netscape 1.0 Sep 07 09:11:42 DraX: true. Sep 07 09:11:58 whoremember firefox as an unzip and use Sep 07 09:11:59 i miss that Sep 07 09:12:16 firefox portable? Sep 07 09:12:19 from a usb drive Sep 07 09:12:37 well firefox portable is out there now Sep 07 09:12:44 but back in the day it was portable by default Sep 07 09:12:51 ah Sep 07 09:12:53 there was no instalation Sep 07 09:12:57 http://www.holgermetzger.de/Netscape_History.html Sep 07 09:13:03 Chrome apparently has a huge usage base Sep 07 09:13:34 http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nscpdorm.html is a good read ... Sep 07 09:14:31 I enjoyed Sunday, 28 August 1994. Sep 07 09:15:22 laserdisc ftw! Sep 07 09:15:37 talk about dead format it died a worse death than HD-DVD Sep 07 09:16:00 i love chrome Sep 07 09:16:31 so, if everyone is happy with the Preware 0.8.5 release, it's time for dinner. Sep 07 09:16:34 It is great *haven't installed it* Sep 07 09:16:44 Go and have a steak on me Rod Sep 07 09:16:57 I won't send you the money but have it on me Sep 07 09:17:03 ;) Sep 07 09:17:17 you have not installed chrome eguy? Sep 07 09:17:23 nope Sep 07 09:17:26 I have used it though Sep 07 09:17:33 Much better than Safari Sep 07 09:17:39 its freaking clean. why not install? Sep 07 09:17:43 It shows webkit isn't junk Sep 07 09:17:59 like Safari makes it out to be Sep 07 09:18:03 the new safari wants to act like chrome but it uses up resources like no other Sep 07 09:18:15 I am an Opera fenatic Sep 07 09:18:28 fanatic* Sep 07 09:18:30 my first encounter with opera was on palm Sep 07 09:18:34 it wasnt the best Sep 07 09:18:37 Oh I am sorry Sep 07 09:18:52 although it was kinda nicefor some sites back on my i500 palm os 4 lol Sep 07 09:19:08 Java for POS was a catastrophe Sep 07 09:19:15 not so much on palm os5 so i guess i been bias since Sep 07 09:19:33 The computer browser is just great Sep 07 09:19:39 fastest by a long shot Sep 07 09:19:46 and loaded with goodies Sep 07 09:19:54 and 10 makes me happy Sep 07 09:20:11 i tried it awhile back i kinda liked it i will admit but horros of using it on palm kept coming back to me Sep 07 09:20:20 haha Sep 07 09:21:01 yippe look at my bandwidth Sep 07 09:21:14 I should do all my downloading at 2am Sep 07 09:21:29 downloading chrome? Sep 07 09:21:36 nah lol Sep 07 09:21:41 just ran a line test Sep 07 09:21:45 oh Sep 07 09:21:54 My upload is pathetic though Sep 07 09:22:03 .96 :( makes me sad Sep 07 09:22:13 wtf Sep 07 09:22:27 on your direct line? Sep 07 09:22:30 for work Sep 07 09:22:32 .96mbit Sep 07 09:22:35 at home Sep 07 09:22:46 my down is 31mbit Sep 07 09:22:56 i dont get it Sep 07 09:23:03 That's cable for you Sep 07 09:23:04 that doesnt make sense Sep 07 09:23:13 ha Sep 07 09:23:18 oh well Sep 07 09:23:20 crap upload speeds Sep 07 09:23:45 ok trying opera again... its no chrome Sep 07 09:24:13 hah Sep 07 09:24:14 i love turning tabs into their own windows Sep 07 09:24:17 and putting them back Sep 07 09:24:21 too spoiled now Sep 07 09:24:41 I hate timewarner Sep 07 09:24:43 i also like stupid bars never trying to attach themselves to it Sep 07 09:24:47 worst monopoly ever Sep 07 09:24:59 comcast Sep 07 09:25:03 who is worse? Sep 07 09:25:12 timewarner owns comcast no? Sep 07 09:25:22 i dont think so.. Sep 07 09:25:34 they might be in cohoots though Sep 07 09:25:42 I thought they were Sep 07 09:26:01 I thought timewarner owned all tv and internet in the us Sep 07 09:26:06 well cable internet Sep 07 09:26:12 and tv Sep 07 09:26:36 Time Warner Cable and Comcast completed a deal to purchase practically all of Adelphia's assets for $17 billion Sep 07 09:26:48 yes Sep 07 09:27:00 Adelphia...now there is a shitty company Sep 07 09:27:04 Time Warner Cable and Comcast also agreed to exchange some of their own subscribers in order to consolidate key regions Sep 07 09:27:12 was* Sep 07 09:27:19 ya in cohoots Sep 07 09:27:34 we should move this convo to the watercooler Sep 07 09:27:39 * Eguy facepalms Sep 07 09:27:46 on my way Sep 07 09:28:04 Jack87: so I see MyTether has raised the "donation" to $14.95 - first time in my life I've seen a donation listed with a non-whole number of dollars :-) Sep 07 09:28:11 anyone know how to turn on info level logging on an actual pre, not just the sim? Sep 07 09:28:18 hahah rwhitby Sep 07 09:28:30 Sorry for wrecking the channel again Rod :( Sep 07 09:29:02 I have loglevel set to 99 in the framework config file but info stuff still doesn't get logged and everything prefixed with erorr for debuging output is retarded :( Sep 07 09:29:06 i believe its moving towards a purchase app rod Sep 07 09:29:15 "what should I donate? $10? $20?. No, I'll donation $14.95" ;-) Sep 07 09:29:28 LOL Sep 07 09:30:05 Jack87: sorry, I just can't help myself ... Sep 07 09:30:26 it started out as ligit donations Sep 07 09:30:34 yeah, it did. Sep 07 09:31:00 but before he can turn it to official paid app must be perfected i think its almost there though Sep 07 09:31:37 I wonder whether the first GSM carrier will allow tethering or not ... Sep 07 09:31:49 depends on the carrier Sep 07 09:32:03 yeah. Sep 07 09:32:24 it will be quite amusing if they do :-) Sep 07 09:32:48 get the popcorn out for the GSM vs CDMA threads on PreCentral if that happens ... Sep 07 09:32:55 in all honesty Sep 07 09:33:00 i dont want carriers to allow tethering Sep 07 09:33:09 than they will charge primams Sep 07 09:33:10 hahaha Sep 07 09:33:19 Jack87: all carriers here do, cause there is no unlimited plans. Sep 07 09:33:20 and piss me off when i have an unlimited data plan already Sep 07 09:33:30 GSM is better I think ONLY because of the sim card advantage Sep 07 09:33:44 i can see that rod Sep 07 09:33:50 as for here.. i wouldnt like it Sep 07 09:33:56 Eguy: yeah, that whole working anywhere in the world when I'm travelling is a trivial feature ... Sep 07 09:34:06 yes Sep 07 09:34:16 I keep some unlocked phones for travel Sep 07 09:34:29 My old Sony Ericssons from my AT&T and T-Mobile days Sep 07 09:38:16 I have a treo pro just for that sort of thing Sep 07 09:38:26 too expensive Sep 07 09:43:46 id like a treo pro Sep 07 09:44:09 I'd like a P120 Sep 07 09:44:15 i broke my centro was going to get treo 800w contemplating... i bought another centro Sep 07 09:44:35 i missmy755p Sep 07 09:44:41 fell on the freeway so sad Sep 07 09:44:53 i tried looking for it afterwards that was horrible Sep 07 09:44:56 how did it fall on the freeway? Sep 07 09:45:01 i found the battery door Sep 07 09:45:08 out of my pocket on the bike Sep 07 09:45:08 were you driving with the doors open? Sep 07 09:45:13 i had it ina shirt pocket Sep 07 09:45:14 oh Sep 07 09:45:18 iforgot.. and it was unbuttoned Sep 07 09:45:32 * rwhitby is *not* happy to read http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/201710-palm-wont-australia-months.html Sep 07 09:45:54 Oh no! Sep 07 09:46:19 very sad news rod Sep 07 09:47:08 broke my i500 to :( Sep 07 09:47:14 who here ever used that anyway Sep 07 09:47:25 Have you ever used a III? Sep 07 09:47:47 no Sep 07 09:48:17 before cellphones my mobile device was psp Sep 07 09:48:17 I have one somewhere Sep 07 09:49:05 now the psp is a skype phone Sep 07 09:49:14 mine doesnt do it psp1000 Sep 07 09:49:16 my only hope now is that Palm takes pity on me and sends me a .eu GSM version .... Sep 07 09:49:37 chrisa: please put in a good word for me ;-) Sep 07 09:49:41 I mentioned you in my post lord whitby Sep 07 09:50:02 I have a psp1000 also Sep 07 09:50:09 no love for the early adopters Sep 07 09:50:14 sound familiar? Sep 07 09:50:38 mine was free Sep 07 09:50:56 I got a japanese one Sep 07 09:50:58 i was going to sell it but i had to play with it than i just had to keep it Sep 07 09:51:02 like 6 months before it came out here Sep 07 09:51:11 won it at test out challange if anyone knows what that is Sep 07 09:51:13 and I got to show it offf Sep 07 09:52:04 they will sold out when i won it was great i was scared kids were going to jump me when leaving the building Sep 07 09:52:28 watercooler talk Sep 07 09:52:35 holy crap batrman I need to go to sleep Sep 07 09:53:21 so much for the morning ride.. time for an afternoon one now Sep 07 09:55:23 * rwhitby bbl Sep 07 10:02:41 did all go to bed Sep 07 12:40:26 hi folks - anyone know how to novaterm to the emulator when device is connected? novaterm -d tcp doesn't work for me Sep 07 12:51:29 hmm does your ipkg service crashes every two days or so? Sep 07 13:12:10 If I was going to develop an IRC app would I really need to have a service that runs all the time? Couldn't I just create a browser plugin like the terminal app? Sep 07 14:42:30 freakout, ping? Sep 07 14:56:57 What do you think the community would be more interesting in? Live streaming video from the pre, alternative video/audio filetype support, or audio/video playback processing (slowing/speeding up audio or reencoding video on the device to diff formats) Sep 07 14:57:12 s/resting/rested Sep 07 15:02:13 live streaming. Sep 07 15:03:38 alternative video/audio filetype support Sep 07 15:04:06 Decimation, good, that's what I was interested in working on my most anyway. icecast plugin linked from a gst plugin 'net2stream' seems feasible. I'm building it now actually Sep 07 15:04:48 don't know how icecast is going to react to arm, can't find any docs on it... if not there are other ways, this would definitely be the most convenient tho Sep 07 15:05:46 yay, got issue tracking working on the website Sep 07 15:05:46 thatdude, and you had to go and spoil my fun, lol. ogg seems to be the easiest to implement (im assuming it doesn't already support ogg)? and I've had requests for wma support before. Sep 07 15:05:58 Awesome Puff :) Sep 07 15:06:26 zsoc: that would be really cool if you could pull it off. Sep 07 15:06:39 Decimation, you use VLC and a linux environment? Sep 07 15:06:50 lol, no. Sep 07 15:06:56 im a linux noobbb. Sep 07 15:07:05 oh, windows and VLC? Sep 07 15:07:09 i do all my coding in c++/vb on linux :D Sep 07 15:07:15 zsoc: Homebrew apps already support shoutcast Sep 07 15:07:31 havent used vlc, no. Sep 07 15:07:38 thatdude, is icecast the GPL "video" version of shoutcast? Sep 07 15:07:53 Decimation, well it's free :P and quite possibly the best windows video player available. Sep 07 15:07:53 zsoc: correct :D Sep 07 15:08:02 thatdude, sounds very promising :) Sep 07 15:08:13 zsoc: lol ;) Sep 07 15:09:18 zsoc: what makes it better than others? Sep 07 15:11:18 PuffTheMagic: whats up with that hold the button app? lol Sep 07 15:11:18 Decimation, er.. it's fast? light? small? Plays nearly every feasible filetype? I dunno, use what you wish, but you should play with it atleast once :) It uses opengl for second monitor full screen, which is nice. So you can hook your laptop to your tv, play a video file full screen, and still have your laptop to use :) Sep 07 15:11:29 idk, did you try it Sep 07 15:11:32 its not my project Sep 07 15:11:41 yeah Sep 07 15:11:50 you just hold a button, and the counter goes up Sep 07 15:11:58 i just can't see where the dev is going with it.. lol Sep 07 15:12:37 Decimation: i didnt try it Sep 07 15:12:41 There's a flash game similar to that. It's just for fun I guess? Sep 07 15:12:53 maybe its not final? Sep 07 15:12:54 this is NOT fun Sep 07 15:12:54 lol Sep 07 15:13:00 its 1.0.1 :P Sep 07 15:13:03 oh Sep 07 15:13:11 which probably means its 0.0.1 Sep 07 15:13:20 i sure hope. Sep 07 15:14:00 No no, that's the whole game. There's a flash game like it. I guess it's for.. self control? heh. Sep 07 15:14:25 well maybe it was a first app Sep 07 15:14:36 most of the apps in the catalog suck anyway Sep 07 15:14:42 so its not liek it stands out Sep 07 15:15:03 It's better than a Hello World app, hehe Sep 07 15:17:35 nothing beats hello world. Sep 07 15:18:03 Preware 0.8.5 is sexy! Sep 07 15:19:12 is it out of alpha ? Sep 07 15:20:05 No idea, just that I updated to the latest version. Sep 07 15:22:57 from inside preware itself ? Sep 07 15:24:29 the new Main scene for preware is ftw! Sep 07 15:24:52 yeah its live, alpha builds are different versions. i think alpha of 0.8.5 was 0.8.4a Sep 07 15:24:55 or something like that Sep 07 15:25:11 0.8.2 is absolutely terrible Sep 07 15:25:15 for me at least Sep 07 15:25:20 lol, update Sep 07 15:25:26 Yes update! Sep 07 15:25:27 you need the new version of the package manager tho Sep 07 15:25:45 You have ssh on your phone? Sep 07 15:25:55 you're gonna give me the instructions? :) Sep 07 15:26:10 No, you not a noob Sep 07 15:26:13 lol Sep 07 15:26:23 :D Sep 07 15:26:33 bpadalino, er... well that depends i guess. i don't mind doing it but some get mad when you don't let people figure things out themselves :) Sep 07 15:26:57 Any of the preware dev team awake? Sep 07 15:26:57 But hey you can be hit by the magic dragon and can forget things Sep 07 15:28:04 heisenman, probably not this time of day, but they read logs usually or i may be able to answer something Sep 07 15:28:18 i'd think "checking version" would not take more than a split second Sep 07 15:29:07 bpadalino: Let me guess, preware is hanging at "checking version" now that you've upgraded to 0.8.5 Sep 07 15:29:13 :) Sep 07 15:29:14 indeed Sep 07 15:29:28 Yes sir, definitely in the same box... Sep 07 15:29:29 checking version? Sep 07 15:29:32 And I believe I've fixed it. Sep 07 15:29:37 This static on my left speakers in Ubuntu is killing me. Sep 07 15:29:41 Puff: No worries, we're being idiots. Sep 07 15:29:53 how did you do that ? Sep 07 15:29:56 pbada: Did you go through the command line, or through preware to update? Sep 07 15:30:03 terminal Sep 07 15:30:15 you need to run the luna-send command. Sep 07 15:30:33 It's not just for the first time you install preware; there is some other stuff it seems to do to make everything work. Sep 07 15:30:35 so much scanning Sep 07 15:31:05 I think you'll have luck once you do that step Sep 07 15:31:09 hm Sep 07 15:31:19 luna-send command? you mean the rescan? Sep 07 15:31:20 dropped the app total by almost 20 though... Sep 07 15:31:24 correct. Sep 07 15:31:29 luna-scan -n 1 etc. Sep 07 15:31:31 do you have ~20 apps installed ? Sep 07 15:31:37 I currently have 17 Sep 07 15:31:44 luna-scan? Sep 07 15:31:51 there is a toggle switch to count installed apps against the total or not .. Sep 07 15:31:52 luna-send! Sep 07 15:31:52 my fault Sep 07 15:31:58 sorry puff Sep 07 15:32:00 np Sep 07 15:32:04 just confused Sep 07 15:32:05 at first Sep 07 15:32:09 heisenman, yeah, it dropped the app total by the amount you have installed ;) Sep 07 15:32:09 nope, I am :) Sep 07 15:32:10 though i missed something :D Sep 07 15:32:24 zsoc: ah, makes sense actually Sep 07 15:32:44 well anyway, that was my problem. Thanks dev team! :) Sep 07 15:32:49 ha Sep 07 15:33:09 inever figured out how to type curly braces in terminal Sep 07 15:33:13 so i found this new background for my pre Sep 07 15:33:15 Oh, nice progress bar on the new Preware Sep 07 15:33:17 and i am LOVIN it. Sep 07 15:33:24 Anyone else noticing their phone starting to wiggle a bit at the mating of the two halves? Sep 07 15:33:29 I'm a little worried. Sep 07 15:33:41 heisenman_g: yeah its called Oreo'ing Sep 07 15:33:42 hardware issues aren't our job here ;) Sep 07 15:33:45 :D Sep 07 15:33:58 Oreo'ing is bad. Sep 07 15:34:01 Decimation: i got a sick background... its a like this trippy psychodellic lake painting Sep 07 15:34:05 Even if the name is amusing. Sep 07 15:34:13 i'll send you mine Puff Sep 07 15:34:15 one sec Sep 07 15:34:20 heisenman_g: There are a few small fixes for it, but if you're really worried you can always go back to the shop and request a replacement Sep 07 15:34:33 Seriously, this phone at LEAST needs to last til the next hardware update. Sep 07 15:35:00 i got the replacement plan Sep 07 15:35:08 Yeah, I probably shoulda done that... Sep 07 15:35:09 for the first time ever on a phone Sep 07 15:35:10 http://screensnapr.com/u/bzjvbg.png Sep 07 15:35:16 PuffTheMagic: thats mine. Sep 07 15:35:18 cause i was sorta skepical about the hw Sep 07 15:35:27 I... Sep 07 15:35:28 but the fact that it runs linux Sep 07 15:35:32 nice bg Sep 07 15:35:33 that made me get it no matter what Sep 07 15:35:34 Heh, I always get the replacement plan on anything I carry anywhere, because I can't have nice things Sep 07 15:35:38 Hadn't been working in a warehouse quite as much until lately. Sep 07 15:35:45 You people are distracting me. Sep 07 15:35:51 i think the toggle for "Show all package types" for the main scene is backwards ? Sep 07 15:36:15 bpadalino, i bet it thinks you're backwards too. Sep 07 15:36:22 most likely Sep 07 15:36:24 http://omploader.org/vMmF3eg Sep 07 15:36:27 ^^ my wallpaper Sep 07 15:36:39 ooo puff 1uped you, that's hot Sep 07 15:36:46 * zsoc scps it to his pre Sep 07 15:36:47 bpadalino: backwards? Sep 07 15:37:08 zsoc: there is another similar to it Sep 07 15:37:13 on the sitei found it Sep 07 15:37:37 bpadalino: i think i wanna start a movement/rebellion Sep 07 15:37:42 to make the new main screen the default :D Sep 07 15:38:09 PuffTheMagic: trippy :P - but i like mine more :D Sep 07 15:38:15 So the virtual keyboard being dev'd here is no longer in preware? Sep 07 15:38:37 (Never gotten it to work right, I was hoping to have an app make my day easier :)) Sep 07 15:38:46 Hmm I see it listed in my preware Sep 07 15:40:17 sigh. the palm nova .deb package broke my useable novacom Sep 07 15:41:02 Anyone see an article put out recently about someone hacking webos into an iphone? Sep 07 15:41:17 Have you always been able to copy text from an email sent to you? Sep 07 15:41:21 I didn't read into it much, but that could be a hell of a funny way to fix all of those apple users. Sep 07 15:41:41 PuffTheMagic, there is a new main scene to preware ? Sep 07 15:41:51 hell yeah Sep 07 15:42:00 heisenman_g: link? Sep 07 15:42:04 go to the main scene Sep 07 15:42:06 hmm... Sep 07 15:42:07 and then preferences Sep 07 15:42:16 and enable "show all package types" Sep 07 15:42:23 in the "main scene" option Sep 07 15:42:40 it says "Yes" and is blue ..but i get less categories on the main screen when i do that Sep 07 15:42:47 yes Sep 07 15:42:54 bah Sep 07 15:42:57 may take a while to find. Sep 07 15:42:59 ok Sep 07 15:43:00 "Available Applications" is changed to "Avalilable Pacakges" Sep 07 15:43:08 then when u go to available packages Sep 07 15:43:10 everyone is buzzing about v1.2 of the os getting leaked. Sep 07 15:43:11 you get a Type filter Sep 07 15:43:24 heisenman_g: lols, it not even like it was leaked Sep 07 15:43:28 it was released by palm Sep 07 15:43:34 in the webos dr Sep 07 15:43:39 as a recovery to the old version? Sep 07 15:43:41 its on their public site Sep 07 15:43:48 now i am back to "Updating" and a circle sitting there for ages Sep 07 15:43:49 its not like someone stole it Sep 07 15:43:52 and put it on torrent Sep 07 15:44:04 Nono, more like someone shouldn't have patched it into their recovery tool. Sep 07 15:44:46 I'm checking the updates program now... Sep 07 15:44:53 Is it officially released? Sep 07 15:45:09 ....no. Still not an official release. Sep 07 15:45:10 no, not yet. Sep 07 15:45:27 yes it is Sep 07 15:45:37 its not released a an OTA update Sep 07 15:45:45 its released as a webos dr image Sep 07 15:45:58 just cause there is no OTA yet dont mean its a leak Sep 07 15:45:58 as in public beta? Sep 07 15:46:16 I misspoke. Sep 07 15:46:21 Leak was too strong of a word. Sep 07 15:46:23 its available from 1 of 2 main distribution methods Sep 07 15:46:42 "Made available to the public conscious" is probably a better description. Sep 07 15:47:00 well, whenever 1.2 is officially released, let me know Sep 07 15:47:05 The minute it hits slashdot and google news, people like me are going to try to install it, and brick their phones. Sep 07 15:47:07 im tired of my app catalog not working :/ Sep 07 15:47:20 (I didn't do that. I learned :)) Sep 07 15:48:41 Decimation: how is it still not working Sep 07 15:48:46 pretty hard to brick your phone .. i don' think anyone has done it really Sep 07 15:48:47 how did you install ipkgservice Sep 07 15:48:48 from git Sep 07 15:48:53 or from official ipk? Sep 07 15:49:05 yeah its hard to brick anything now adays Sep 07 15:49:23 Decimation: how did u install ipkgservice? Sep 07 15:50:58 The only truely bricked pre's we know of to date are those few that failed during an over-the-air os version update from PALM. Sprint warranty replaced them as a known problem. That was at the 1.0.4 update, None reported since then. Sep 07 15:51:41 Luke, I'm yer father, eh. Come over to the dark side, you hoser. -- Dave Thomas, "Strange Brew" Sep 07 15:51:47 Anyway. Sep 07 15:51:50 Chores time. Sep 07 15:51:54 Back later, thanks all. Sep 07 15:52:11 Rick_home: im pretty sure those all coul dhave been recovered using webos dr Sep 07 15:52:20 but it was easier for palm to just send new ones Sep 07 15:53:32 PuffTheMagic Sep 07 15:53:52 i just went into quick install Sep 07 15:53:54 and updated Sep 07 15:54:23 hey guys I got a issue. I got 1.2 but I created a new profile due to iftar that may be there are issues. everything is working fine now but I didn't get apps from palm app catalog due to new profile. I already applied cammand to disable any update Palm forces. so now when I try to reset phone to partially delete apps or even reset to factory default RTN with MSL# it just shows it's reseting and then nothing happens. any help please? Sep 07 15:54:25 oh that should work Sep 07 15:54:37 Decimation: i get issue when i install ipkg i make from git and palm-package Sep 07 15:54:48 Decimation: but wheni use official ipks it seems to work Sep 07 15:54:52 hmm Sep 07 15:54:59 i always take the preware from the git Sep 07 15:55:05 and palm-package then palm-install Sep 07 15:55:09 but never the ipkg service. Sep 07 15:55:11 yeah see that never works right for me Sep 07 15:55:14 for ipkgservice Sep 07 15:55:16 for preware it works fine Sep 07 15:55:19 but not for ipkgservice Sep 07 15:55:27 hmm, do you palm-install Sep 07 15:55:31 or web-os quick install Sep 07 15:55:32 ? Sep 07 15:55:52 nope Sep 07 15:55:52 scp Sep 07 15:55:59 then ipkg -o /var install Sep 07 15:55:59 fooollll Sep 07 15:56:05 then run the postinst Sep 07 15:56:06 anyone? Sep 07 15:56:12 just quick-install Sep 07 15:56:41 ehsan: webos dr it again Sep 07 15:56:50 ehsan: what he said. Sep 07 15:56:50 Decimation: thats too much work Sep 07 15:56:54 honestly it works either was, but if you ipkg it locally then no postint script gets ran, and that can be bad Sep 07 15:56:56 NO IT ISNT Sep 07 15:56:57 lol Sep 07 15:57:01 palm-package Sep 07 15:57:05 open quick install Sep 07 15:57:05 Decimation: whuy would i use quick install from linux Sep 07 15:57:06 drag it in Sep 07 15:57:08 hit install. Sep 07 15:57:16 it runs post-inst scripts for you Sep 07 15:57:20 i know Sep 07 15:57:20 dang it. that is what I didn't want to do :-(. it takes an hour Sep 07 15:57:20 so what Sep 07 15:57:23 im not a dolt Sep 07 15:57:25 i can do it my self Sep 07 15:57:28 lol Sep 07 15:57:31 just saves typing Sep 07 15:57:34 not really Sep 07 15:57:37 typing is fast Sep 07 15:57:42 drag and drop is slow Sep 07 15:57:47 and i already have ssh open Sep 07 15:57:54 personal preference. Sep 07 15:57:54 so i would have to start the quick install Sep 07 15:58:38 but if oyu do palm-package . Sep 07 15:58:43 for ipkgservice Sep 07 15:58:47 you wont get a postinst anyway Sep 07 15:59:04 that is true Sep 07 16:00:03 is there any other way to just get pandora? that is the only app I care about since twee covers my Twitter addiction Sep 07 16:00:30 without app catalog access I mean Sep 07 16:00:38 ehsan, what's wrong with your app catalog? Sep 07 16:01:14 got 1.2 won't let me in. says app catalog unavailable Sep 07 16:01:50 ah Sep 07 16:06:14 zsoc: so sounds like there might be a change in 1.2 that breaks a bunch of apps? Sep 07 16:06:32 maybe you can edit the mojo for the app catelog Sep 07 16:06:40 and remove anything looking for a specifc version Sep 07 16:06:43 idk Sep 07 16:07:10 I don't think it's important enough to investigate. No doubt 1.2 will be available very soon. Sep 07 16:09:36 is there a code or patch to undo the "disable palm auto update"? cause I can't RTN reset to change profile. if I could I can restore all my apps I had installed. Sep 07 16:22:52 I would guess the 1.2 version isn't usable yet? Sep 07 16:47:38 ehsan: you could download the pandora ipk from palm's CDN directly Sep 07 16:47:58 how? Sep 07 16:48:14 link pls? Sep 07 16:49:06 well, this is an OLD version Sep 07 16:49:15 but I found it in a service trace update a while back Sep 07 16:49:16 https://cdn.downloads.palm.com/apps/21/0.9.11/files/com.palm.pandora_0.9.11_all_signed.ipk Sep 07 16:50:38 err a trace I did of the update service conversation Sep 07 16:54:13 hmm, maybe it hasn't been updated since then Sep 07 16:54:29 anyone running a later version of pandora than 9.1.1? Sep 07 16:57:13 not at front of my MacBook to try but how u recommend I shud download it? on filecoaster it's not working. will try to download it at home and use quick install Sep 07 16:57:30 someone here had an issue with a ghost tapping on device, any ideas how to fix? (tried reboot, pkill LunaSysMngr, none helped :-( ) Sep 07 16:58:05 Zuchmir2: remove battery, put it back in, if still happening it's probably a hardware problem with their touchscreen Sep 07 17:00:18 ehsan: do you have dropbear installed, you could scp it to the device and ssh in and ipkg -o /var install com.palm.pandora_0.9.11_all_signed.ipk Sep 07 17:00:39 err sudo ipkg -o /var install ... Sep 07 17:00:47 I've had temporary 'ghost tapping' on my advice, caused by overheat. Sep 07 17:01:15 zsoc: so heat caused capacitance differences in the touchscreen measured as taps, I'm guessing Sep 07 17:01:24 hmm no. will research when u get home Sep 07 17:01:40 thanks, looks like pulling the battery killed the ghost Sep 07 17:01:54 ehsan: if you have the sdk you could just palm-install com.palm.pandora_0.9.11_all_signed.ipk Sep 07 17:02:32 Zuchmir2: no problem, I figure it's due to temporary anomalies in the capacitance measuring of the touchscreen Sep 07 17:02:53 aha. I do. wow if it's this easy then u saved me whole day :-) Sep 07 17:03:31 you can send a check payable to destinal ... Sep 07 17:03:41 :P Sep 07 17:04:04 destinal, you saved him 1 whole day! you should be compensated at least for 1/2 days worth of work Sep 07 17:04:18 lolzzz come to Houston destinal and drink on me :-) if this works Sep 07 17:05:05 awesome. so it looks like I'm running 0.9.1.1 still also, nobody else responded so maybe it's still the latest Sep 07 17:06:41 0.9.11 Sep 07 17:07:00 err yeah 0.9.11 Sep 07 17:07:10 destinal: im gonna try and build ompload and wgetpaste for armv7 Sep 07 17:07:14 and make ipks for them :D Sep 07 17:07:24 PuffTheMagic: I think ompload is a script, yeah? Sep 07 17:07:41 the one I have is ruby Sep 07 17:07:43 ahh it is Sep 07 17:07:44 ruby Sep 07 17:07:54 so i need to build ruby for armv7 Sep 07 17:07:55 :D Sep 07 17:08:13 try ipkg-opt install ruby Sep 07 17:08:24 ahh its alredy there :D Sep 07 17:08:32 see we need optware stuff in preware :D Sep 07 17:08:43 add a extra param Sep 07 17:08:53 to change /var to /opt Sep 07 17:09:21 does the pre already have ncurses Sep 07 17:10:58 yup, ipkg info ncurses says yes Sep 07 17:11:53 the richness of the default userland continually delights and surprises Sep 07 17:12:12 ok so then all i need is the ruby package Sep 07 17:12:21 cause i know it has all the other deps Sep 07 17:12:30 is /var/usr/bin in the PATH? Sep 07 17:12:34 on the pre that is Sep 07 17:12:40 or are symlinks needed Sep 07 17:13:39 negative. /var/usr/bin is nonexistent and not referenced, palm never planned on putting binaries out there Sep 07 17:14:44 (so it seems anyway) Sep 07 17:14:49 Hey, strings, piping, and grep all work on the default pre shell. i wish i knew that. Sep 07 17:15:12 destinal: so symlink it is in postinst :D Sep 07 17:15:21 but wait Sep 07 17:15:35 dont we have profile.d file Sep 07 17:15:37 in case anyone is wondering, pre has gstreamer 0.10.21 installed by default. *grumble grumble* Sep 07 17:15:41 cant we extend the path to /var ? Sep 07 17:15:41 in /etc yes Sep 07 17:15:49 and now i get to rebuild my chrooted gst to the right version, because i'm a huge idiot. Sep 07 17:16:07 so why cant ipkgservice check to make sure preware.conf exists in profile.d Sep 07 17:16:14 and in that it can extend PATH Sep 07 17:16:32 PuffTheMagic: just make a package for that and make it a dep for binary stuff Sep 07 17:16:44 no need to alter the service Sep 07 17:17:02 destinal: i was just thinking ahead for more services Sep 07 17:17:09 it would be way easier for binaries Sep 07 17:17:26 if /var/usr/bin was in the path Sep 07 17:17:34 right but we're trying to work with other installers Sep 07 17:17:44 you can make a package that just has the profile.d file Sep 07 17:17:50 and make it a dep for other stuff Sep 07 17:17:55 lol Sep 07 17:18:09 what type is that gonna be Sep 07 17:18:10 :D Sep 07 17:18:19 Env Files Sep 07 17:18:21 :D Sep 07 17:18:23 heh Sep 07 17:18:50 shit i need to make crab cakes for dinner tonight Sep 07 17:18:51 why not, Linux system files or some such Sep 07 17:19:28 its not that useful that way Sep 07 17:19:54 the only reason i mentioned it was cause i wanted to avoid postinst Sep 07 17:20:02 oh Sep 07 17:20:27 well, let's not make ANOTHER hidden dependency in our version of the standard Sep 07 17:20:41 what are the others? Sep 07 17:21:38 well, we're already extending it to do json stuff in source:, something other installers have to add. I guess that's not exactly hidden but we're creating things other installers will have to implement, and in the case of the path change, how will they know? Sep 07 17:22:01 they dont have to implemnt extra meta data if they dont want Sep 07 17:22:32 right but they will have to implement your path change file if we rely on it, so I think we shouldn't Sep 07 17:24:33 ok so back to this subscription thing Sep 07 17:24:45 libpurpleadapter has 2 LS* functions Sep 07 17:24:55 that seem to pertain to subscriptions Sep 07 17:25:09 and i cant quite understand how they work or what they do Sep 07 17:25:21 LS? Sep 07 17:31:55 puff: looking at: LSSubscriptionReply()? Sep 07 17:36:41 you know i must admit, at 500mhz, even pegged for 30 minutes, the pre barely gets warm. Sep 07 17:36:51 at least to the touch Sep 07 17:37:18 Put it on a touchstone and start pandora Sep 07 17:38:30 Zuchmir2: that one i sort get Sep 07 17:38:38 understand Sep 07 17:38:40 its the other one Sep 07 17:39:03 LSSubscriptionProcess Sep 07 17:40:47 chrisa: the biggest thing I've noticed for heat is the radio Sep 07 17:41:05 how's the palm pre handling its alsa audio routing? with multiple virtual devices, scenarios, or ? Sep 07 17:41:14 mickeyl: pulsaudio Sep 07 17:41:24 is doing all the work Sep 07 17:41:32 also routing to/from BP? Sep 07 17:41:48 bp? Sep 07 17:41:59 * destinal is an alsa n00b Sep 07 17:42:01 baseband processor, rf, modem Sep 07 17:42:43 yeah all the mixing happens on the OMAP, it's just digital that comes over the usb interface to the qualcomm chipset i think Sep 07 17:43:02 i see. Sep 07 17:43:28 right, i remember a huge patch from Palm to bump PA's mixing Sep 07 17:43:32 (which is very slow) Sep 07 17:43:45 destinal: calls/3g/charging are the three main heat sources Sep 07 17:44:14 i guess no one knows the status of the GSM version, right? the waiting is kill me. *sigh* Sep 07 17:44:26 bpadalino: omap is TI Sep 07 17:44:28 s/kill/killing/ Sep 07 17:44:28 mickeyl meant: i guess no one knows the status of the GSM version, right? the waiting is killing me. *sigh* Sep 07 17:44:34 chrisa, indeed they are Sep 07 17:45:42 mickeyl: O2 is still saying "just in time for christmas" but the rumor sites claim late october Sep 07 17:45:47 chrisa, do you plan on using any of those 37xx series with the smaller package size and speed bump ? Sep 07 17:45:55 destinal: hmm, right. *crossing fingers* Sep 07 17:46:09 my last hope for a free device (as in speach) Sep 07 17:46:14 speech, that is Sep 07 17:46:25 Any chipset changes are a major decision Sep 07 17:46:33 Even when just moving up within the same line Sep 07 17:46:44 drop in replacement! my ti guy guarantees me Sep 07 17:46:49 it's been confirmed that the AT channel is accessible over usb right? Sep 07 17:46:56 tmzt: yes Sep 07 17:46:58 without a mux (or documentation if there is one) Sep 07 17:47:06 check the usbpassthrough app Sep 07 17:47:12 tmzt: heh. everywhere the same guys ;) Sep 07 17:47:31 mickeyl: yeah, I got introduced to this place when looking for information on the Pre Sep 07 17:47:34 and omap3 Sep 07 17:47:39 cool, welcome Sep 07 17:47:42 /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.usbpassthrough Sep 07 17:47:57 source? Sep 07 17:48:11 tmzt: you can get it from the doctor image Sep 07 17:48:19 chrisa: rf chipset changes, not the whole thing (though I guess you can't really say :) ) Sep 07 17:48:26 ? Sep 07 17:48:44 puff: that probably sets up the subscription Sep 07 17:49:01 tmzt: it calls a service which enables passthrough mode, which makes a few USB serial devices available. I was able to modbrobe usbserial with the right vendor and product iDs and talk to the baseband in AT command mode Sep 07 17:49:25 s/brob/prob/ Sep 07 17:49:26 destinal meant: tmzt: it calls a service which enables passthrough mode, which makes a few USB serial devices available. I was able to modprobe usbserial with the right vendor and product iDs and talk to the baseband in AT command mode Sep 07 17:49:29 just with usbserial? Sep 07 17:49:35 is that documented somewhere? Sep 07 17:49:45 i'm actually curious how much power the qualcomm chipset uses for mp3 decoding or h264 decoding versus the omap Sep 07 17:49:59 h264 encoding even .. since i think it has dedicated hardware for both Sep 07 17:50:01 msm? Sep 07 17:50:04 yeah Sep 07 17:50:11 7k I mean Sep 07 17:50:15 looks like u dont have to worry about threads Sep 07 17:50:18 oh, i thought so Sep 07 17:50:19 we don't really know Sep 07 17:50:27 tmzt: no it's not documented :( Sep 07 17:50:51 I know there was an effort of upstream kernel Sep 07 17:50:57 msm7200a i think the block diagram was saying Sep 07 17:51:13 s/of/to get/ Sep 07 17:51:14 tmzt meant: I know there was an effort to get upstream kernel Sep 07 17:51:16 to work Sep 07 17:51:43 we also know that X will likely have the same problems as msm, at least some of them Sep 07 17:51:47 For some reason, it really tickled me when my friend sent me an sms, which i replied to, while compiling. that really is just super-amusing to me. Sep 07 17:51:55 because it gets confused when trying to set the mode Sep 07 17:52:05 with Terminal? Sep 07 17:52:30 hm? Sep 07 17:53:16 msm6801! Sep 07 17:53:24 mickeyl: palm has really created a great mobile device to run an open stack on, even if large parts of their own stack is closed. also the hardware isn't open as such and needs to be reverse engineered to get to where opemoko was with neo/fr, but yeah, very promising Sep 07 17:53:30 bpadalino: yes, but the rf chips for gsm don't seem to be there Sep 07 17:53:35 right Sep 07 17:53:36 on rtr, etc. Sep 07 17:53:42 6150 Sep 07 17:54:16 the fact that kernel drivers are public is a good start though as to the hardware Sep 07 17:54:20 destinal: in what way? Sep 07 17:54:38 destinal: *nod* i'm struggling to find anything that can run our stack and i almost gave up hope in all kinds of other anti-vendor ports... Sep 07 17:54:47 destinal: it's actaully quite open and omap3 is about the best supported chip Sep 07 17:54:48 destinal: so for me the palm pre is like the last straw Sep 07 17:54:57 i was just curious if power could be saved by using the msm6800 to do the video/audio decoding .. Sep 07 17:54:58 tmzt: openmoko's effort was about totally open hardware and software, so all the PCB images, schematics, etc etc _for the handset_ were public Sep 07 17:55:06 mickeyl, i'm sorry i'm a little lost, what do you mean by "our stack"? Sep 07 17:55:22 destinal: yes Sep 07 17:55:30 but what was your comment about? Sep 07 17:55:35 zsoc: freesmartphone.org middleware, X11, all kinds of userland apps using FSO middleware / dbus Sep 07 17:55:43 also the hardware isn't open as such and needs to be reverse engineered to get to where opemoko was with neo/fr, but yeah, very promising Sep 07 17:55:49 hardware? pcbs? Sep 07 17:55:57 mickeyl, gotcha, i'm familiar :) just didn't know who you were representing :) Sep 07 17:56:06 with kernel source we have the gpios, clocks, etc. Sep 07 17:56:17 but it would be best to get upstream kernel to work Sep 07 17:56:44 Also, it looks like icecast builds just fine. Sep 07 17:56:46 tmzt: yeah, I agree, it depends on what you want. you don't need board schematics to get mostly-standard hardware working Sep 07 17:57:10 and the fact that we can build a working kernel now means worst-case, the code is a kind of documentation :) Sep 07 17:57:31 how much to they deviate from using standard kernel interfaces? Sep 07 17:57:32 mickeyl: another neat thing is the os is actually on an embeddedsd card and bootloader is in the omap3 rom Sep 07 17:57:40 everything android is a bad example for that Sep 07 17:57:54 tmzt: yeah, that sounds good Sep 07 17:58:04 of course we need dual boot. Sep 07 17:58:07 mickeyl: it seems to be pretty standard Sep 07 17:58:11 webos images are openembedded based, with upstart as init and almost everything else is upstream/standard Sep 07 17:58:12 otherwise users will have a hard time Sep 07 17:58:18 as for sysfs, I haven't really looked Sep 07 17:58:22 *nod* Sep 07 17:58:33 i'd welcome a dump of 'find /sys' Sep 07 17:58:36 if anyone has Sep 07 17:58:36 mickeyl: the interesting thing is, palm provides a lot of services over dbus now Sep 07 17:58:46 the one concern with that is repeated warnings from Palm people not to mess with the first partition of the sd Sep 07 17:58:58 destinal: do they? that's cool. Sep 07 17:59:21 destinal: yes, but modem stuff is closed and some of Sprint's restrictions are in binaries Sep 07 17:59:24 hmm... need to get palm to donate to OE when they use it Sep 07 17:59:40 tmzt: the first partition has your unique tokens in it, you can back it up Sep 07 17:59:43 good point. Sep 07 17:59:55 bbl, groceries Sep 07 18:01:32 * destinal is looking forward to GSM pre's and the involvement of the FSO / OM folks. Sep 07 18:01:44 FSO/OM ? Sep 07 18:02:14 freesmartphone.org / openmoko Sep 07 18:02:18 freesmartphone.org Sep 07 18:02:20 yes Sep 07 18:02:30 ah Sep 07 18:02:47 well, getting the stack to work can be done on cdma as well Sep 07 18:03:08 gsm, yes please! Sep 07 18:03:28 not because I think GSM devices are special overly much, but that we can get more hackers involved since they want their modems to work and probably won't import CDMA handsets :) Sep 07 18:03:38 What frequency does gsm run in most of europe? I find CDMA in north america is a much better call quality Sep 07 18:04:17 more people will bring all kinds of stuff to the platform that will work regardless of radio typre Sep 07 18:04:24 s/typr/typ/ Sep 07 18:04:24 destinal meant: more people will bring all kinds of stuff to the platform that will work regardless of radio type Sep 07 18:04:25 don't think those are related, zsoc Sep 07 18:04:28 it's all digital Sep 07 18:04:36 whats good Sep 07 18:04:46 tmzt, you don't think frequency and call quality are related because it's digital? Sep 07 18:04:58 no, bandwidth maybe Sep 07 18:04:58 if I had the extra cash I'd buy a pre and ship it to mickey :) Sep 07 18:05:04 but you'll have to be more specific Sep 07 18:05:15 Maybe you're right about the specificity part ;) Sep 07 18:07:13 * zsoc makes a sealed rubber enclosure for his pre so he can keep it in an icebox and overclock cpus during compiling Sep 07 18:07:36 Why don't you just cross compile? Sep 07 18:07:45 /// Sep 07 18:07:49 er ... i mean Sep 07 18:08:15 chrisa, i'm having issues with, er, more than one thing. and I'm making sure that the problem isn't with my cross compiling environment. So far, I've found the same errors, so it might end up that way Sep 07 18:08:41 geist: can you comment on whether msm6800 will remain in any gsm model? Sep 07 18:09:12 chrisa, any idea why the opensource.palm.com release of gstcamsrc.so is so.. incomplete? Or did you not work on those parts? Sep 07 18:10:03 I only know kernel/drivers/bootloader for the most part Sep 07 18:10:37 Will keep in mind :) thank you. Sep 07 18:11:09 was anything done with the scheduler in the kernel to try to keep the device as responsive as possible ? Sep 07 18:12:01 tmzt: dunno. it's a 6k of some type Sep 07 18:12:39 ok, guess that will work Sep 07 18:12:54 tmzt approves! Sep 07 18:12:58 since it requires changing the chipset/rf section so much Sep 07 18:13:00 hah Sep 07 18:13:04 palm can move forward with the gsm pre :) Sep 07 18:13:12 I don't mean it that way Sep 07 18:13:16 i am jk Sep 07 18:13:22 I mean the answer Sep 07 18:13:51 somehow I was expecting ...future roadmap/products... (taken from apple.com/*) Sep 07 18:14:05 geist: have any info on LSSubscriptionProcess() Sep 07 18:14:14 the pre tablet will be announced 2 days before apple's tablet Sep 07 18:14:34 bpadalino: and it will sync with itunes Sep 07 18:14:59 right, but apple will break it 2 days later .. which will be addressed by an OTA update 2 more days later by palm Sep 07 18:14:59 hey, I was fully on board with Foleo, so... Sep 07 18:15:21 Zuchmir2: nope Sep 07 18:16:26 thanks Sep 07 18:17:50 i still wish i knew more about the jvm you guys use ... the version string ended up with me finding some defunct thing from 2005 Sep 07 18:18:04 openjdk6? Sep 07 18:18:11 Hi Sep 07 18:18:12 it's custom Sep 07 18:18:14 nah, it's not that Sep 07 18:18:21 there aren't that many arm supporting hotspot vm's Sep 07 18:18:23 DdAaDd, waaasup Sep 07 18:18:26 What's Photo Roll Msg main? when it shown? Sep 07 18:18:34 geist, custom makes me a little sad :( Sep 07 18:24:10 One wonders how much of foleo became part of webOS. Looks like at least some API keys the pre uses with outside web services reference "Hx" (and HxUI was the foleo's gui subsystem) Sep 07 18:24:43 but HxUI was directfb-based, so it can't have been that much Sep 07 18:24:58 dfb to what they use now is not that big Sep 07 18:25:09 it just elimantes an extra library Sep 07 18:25:18 right, the service bus stuff could all be the same Sep 07 18:25:27 or similar Sep 07 18:36:16 destinal: do you have any behind the wall info about LSSubscriptionProcess() ? Sep 07 18:36:32 Zuchmir2: i cant tell if it starts a special thread or if it "processes" the message Sep 07 18:36:34 idk Sep 07 18:36:57 PuffTheMagic: ah, it's a function provided by the lunaservices lib? Sep 07 18:37:15 yeah Sep 07 18:39:49 PuffTheMagic: have you implemented LSHandle, LSMessage, and LSError? Sep 07 18:39:55 types Sep 07 18:40:17 so you're working on libpurple stuff? Sep 07 18:40:20 irc maybe Sep 07 18:41:03 destinal: yeah thats what i have in my lunaservices.h Sep 07 18:41:12 tmzt: no Sep 07 18:41:19 not yet Sep 07 18:41:28 tmzt: adding subscription support to the battery service Sep 07 18:41:35 then doing an upstart service and upstart gui Sep 07 18:41:35 ah, ok Sep 07 18:41:53 then a process monitor service and gui i think Sep 07 18:42:02 maybe irc in the background Sep 07 18:42:10 wow actually it looks their lib uses about 10 functions for subscription stuff to work right. Sep 07 18:47:18 lol Sep 07 18:48:09 PuffTheMagic: have you seen LSSubscriptionSetCancelFunction LSSubscriptionAdd LSSubscriptionAcquire LSSubscriptionRelease LSSubscriptionHasNext LSSubscriptionNext LSSubscriptionRemove LSSubscriptionReply ? Sep 07 18:48:26 nope Sep 07 18:48:41 im surprised libpurple-adapter dont use them Sep 07 18:48:58 and LSSubscriptionRespond and LSSubscriptionPost also Sep 07 18:50:08 if libpurpleadapter doesn't use them, maybe they're not strictly necessary for subscription (since purple adapter uses subscription, right?) Sep 07 18:56:58 hey, you guys know how 1.2 has the LED blinking if you have a new alert Sep 07 18:57:14 anyway to make it so emails dont cause a blink? Sep 07 18:57:19 have you tested it? Sep 07 18:57:22 Decimation_: I know that you can enable it but it's commented out by default. I have no idea how it works yet. Sep 07 18:57:59 destinal: yeah, i haven't looked to into Sep 07 18:58:04 but i was wondering if anyone knew Sep 07 18:58:04 Decimation_: if I had to guess I would guess that all notifications would start it off so you'd have to disable email notification to stop it Sep 07 18:58:07 but I don't know Sep 07 19:02:13 from all the code we looked at when getting it to work, i dont recall seeing anything to disable anything specific, is just goes off of any alert Sep 07 19:02:48 how does a scene know that it has been returned to after popping the scene that it pushed. Sep 07 19:02:52 theo: you could probably put a conditional in the triggering js to check what app is sending it Sep 07 19:03:07 I push a, that pushes b, b pops, we're back to a, how does a know? Sep 07 19:03:12 is there an event? Sep 07 19:04:27 does anyone know what the most current ubuntu sdk # and version is? just a filename would work if you have it Sep 07 19:06:49 ubuntu sdk? Sep 07 19:06:54 or webos sdk? Sep 07 19:07:29 webos sdk (but I was looking at the ubuntu release) Sep 07 19:10:23 so you want the linux one? Sep 07 19:10:36 yup Sep 07 19:11:15 https://cdn.downloads.palm.com/sdkdownloads/1.1.0.19/sdkBinaries/palm-sdk_1.1.0-svn189487-sdk67-pho19_i386.deb Sep 07 19:11:36 Rick_home: thanks Sep 07 19:11:58 tht's 110 tho Sep 07 19:12:06 if there's a newer one I don't know about it Sep 07 19:12:35 is oil around today? Sep 07 19:12:43 It's interesting, there have been multiple 1.1.0 releases, probably as they fix things in the emulator to more accurately match other webos devices Sep 07 19:12:54 yep Sep 07 19:13:15 but that's 110 sdk 67 Sep 07 19:13:45 is the pho the release within 67? Sep 07 19:14:07 looks like the release within 1.1.0 Sep 07 19:14:25 since 1.1.0.19 = pho19 Sep 07 19:15:02 I think the sdk # increments every release since it gets matched with a virtualbox entry, etc Sep 07 19:15:15 the first public 110 was 62 Sep 07 19:20:50 interesting, audio comes enabled in the new emulator. has anyone gotten it working? Sep 07 19:38:01 did they really take adhoc mode out of the wifi driver in webos 1.2 update? Sep 07 19:38:50 and if so does 1.2 have a new kernel, and/or can the wifi module from 1.1 sill be used? Sep 07 19:38:51 i hope so Sep 07 19:39:59 someone on precentral claims its the same kernel Sep 07 19:40:04 which would be nice Sep 07 19:40:22 not that i ever used adhoc mode, but i hate deliberately crippled things Sep 07 19:41:04 oh, wait the wifi driver isn't a module, is it? Sep 07 19:41:36 Playing devil's advocate, people also hate unnecessary clutter on embedded devices, and adhoc wireless is such for 99.5% of the user base Sep 07 19:41:42 and you can always build a kernel anyway Sep 07 19:41:55 (note: I have no idea if adhoc is removed, or if we touched the kernel in 1.2) Sep 07 19:41:59 you can't necessarily, since i think the wifi driver component is proprietary Sep 07 19:42:16 but anyway, yeah, most people don't care Sep 07 19:42:19 File /resources/webOS/nova-cust-image-castle.rootfs/lib/modules/2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430/kernel/net/wifi/sd8xxx.ko differs Sep 07 19:42:33 it just semes like a sort of odd way to discourage "tethering" Sep 07 19:42:44 seems Sep 07 19:43:00 This leaves bluetooth and usbnet Sep 07 19:43:03 Not really a big deal Sep 07 19:43:05 i wouldn't mind, less people like 'omg why doesnt this work1!111!!111oneone!' Sep 07 19:43:11 haha Sep 07 19:43:13 true! Sep 07 19:43:41 and people trying to sell tethering apps :| Sep 07 19:43:54 so the driver itself is different, but that's not to say if it changed to disable adhoc or not Sep 07 19:44:20 personally, why not just use usbnet it you're going to do some kind of networking with your pre. it charges it too Sep 07 19:45:06 agreed Sep 07 19:45:27 i sometimes use novaterm to get a shell and then ssh out from the phone, which is totally sufficient Sep 07 19:45:38 in other news, _save_ your doctor images :) Sep 07 19:45:43 unless i don't have a cable, but whatever Sep 07 19:46:06 hm yeah i should grab one i guess, i've never tried webos doctor though Sep 07 19:46:37 well the thing is, if you have all the doctor images you can get any of the files from any version, if you ever decide you want to go back to a kernel distributed with a previous version Sep 07 19:47:13 right. Sep 07 19:47:13 ugh i wonder how much of a pain it will be to get it without a windows box Sep 07 19:47:22 wget? Sep 07 19:47:34 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions Sep 07 19:48:04 oh yay thank you Sep 07 19:48:07 i was looking at the palm site, which wanted to run some java app Sep 07 19:55:32 question: after installing the virtual keyboard, none of my text message notifications appear (although email ones do): suggestions? Sep 07 19:57:20 let's try that again (since my question was run off the page by join messages) Sep 07 19:57:22 question: after installing the virtual keyboard, none of my text message notifications appear (although email ones do): suggestions? Sep 07 19:57:46 no, that is not a reported problem Sep 07 19:57:57 have yo installed any other tweaks or patches? Sep 07 19:58:20 not recently Sep 07 19:58:29 lol Sep 07 19:58:33 ;) Sep 07 19:58:59 but the txt notifications appeared up until this point Sep 07 20:09:37 hi folks Sep 07 20:17:59 jeez Sep 07 20:18:46 the room is going crazy Sep 07 20:18:46 netsplits ftw Sep 07 20:18:55 oil: did you see my comments about the categories Sep 07 20:19:07 no Sep 07 20:19:15 you are gonna hate me Sep 07 20:19:21 if u dont already Sep 07 20:19:38 The available pacakges view is awesome in general Sep 07 20:19:49 but once you click on it Sep 07 20:19:53 there shouldnt be a categories option Sep 07 20:19:59 categories is sub-type Sep 07 20:20:10 categories should only be shown once you select a category Sep 07 20:20:20 that made sense Sep 07 20:20:22 but types/feeds is good Sep 07 20:20:42 hey can someone help me understand how to uncomment files to have blinking notification active under 1.2 Sep 07 20:20:50 oil: did u just say my comment made sense or how it is make sense Sep 07 20:21:11 ehsan: do you know how to apply patches Sep 07 20:21:15 i was making a joke that you said categories should only be shown once you select a category Sep 07 20:21:27 but if categories arent shown, how are you selecting a category? Sep 07 20:21:30 oop Sep 07 20:21:42 categories shouldnt be shown till you select a type Sep 07 20:21:47 is what i meant to say Sep 07 20:21:54 or feed Sep 07 20:21:57 right Sep 07 20:21:59 well Sep 07 20:22:12 after a feed it should show type again Sep 07 20:22:14 then category Sep 07 20:22:21 wow Sep 07 20:22:28 feed is highest level then type then categories Sep 07 20:22:45 sorta Sep 07 20:22:58 oil: im just against having the categories mixed Sep 07 20:23:04 and all lumped together Sep 07 20:23:08 i agree Sep 07 20:23:11 cause its sorta out of context Sep 07 20:23:20 well ill see what i can do Sep 07 20:23:49 but the new main screen is money Sep 07 20:23:52 much cleaner Sep 07 20:24:06 * oil goes to get food Sep 07 20:36:21 ehsan: you still looking for blink notifications? Sep 07 20:36:34 yep Sep 07 20:36:55 check here http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/201573-official-1-2-updated-features-functionality-5.html#post1871276 Sep 07 20:39:03 actually its this post http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/201573-leaked-web-os-1-2-updated-features-functionality-2.html#post1871276 but I am novice. I dont know what commenting means. I did root and then disabled palm update and I am on mac in terminal but I dont know how to uncomment lines and how to get them Sep 07 20:39:44 give me a sec ill break it down line by line for you Sep 07 20:40:08 wow. Thanks theo :) Sep 07 20:40:44 do you know how to access the files?? Sep 07 20:41:07 no please tell me how Sep 07 20:42:44 type this into putty "vi /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.screenlock/ap p/controllers/securityconfig-assistant.js" Sep 07 20:44:21 go to lines 54 and remove the // Sep 07 20:44:36 go to line 55 and remove the // Sep 07 20:44:39 er, he prolly doesn't know how vi works if he doesn't know what a comment is... Sep 07 20:44:47 u mean I have to get SSH access first, because at the moment i just rooted Pre, and installed things through quick install. I didnt do anything else Sep 07 20:45:09 oh, then you have a little bit to do first Sep 07 20:45:20 * zsoc thinks this is precisely the reason people should wait for 1.2 Sep 07 20:45:31 you will need ssh first Sep 07 20:45:41 ok let me do that then Sep 07 20:46:19 zsoc. i thought the same thing when i unlocked my iphone. but its fun anyways even knowing nothing. learning as u go Sep 07 20:46:21 :) Sep 07 20:47:06 Ehsan, ok then :) That's a fine attitude to have. I suggest following the instructions on webos-internals for most of your pre access needs :) Sep 07 20:47:45 great attitude to have id say Sep 07 20:47:47 working as we type/speak/chat or whatever we are doing :). I skipped that part thinking i dont need it. Sep 07 20:47:59 but i guess i do Sep 07 20:48:00 :) Sep 07 20:48:26 Honestly, if anyone was serious about getting into the pre, the first step i'd suggest is install linux ^_^ Sep 07 20:49:40 yeah running linux is the main reason why i can get myself around in the pre Sep 07 20:50:43 theo, er, wha? running is is why you can't, or wanting to run it and not is why you can't, or running it and not being familiar is why you can't? or the pre running linux is why you can't? Sep 07 20:51:57 no the experience i have gotten from using linux has helped alot with getting inside of the pres system Sep 07 20:52:52 yeah, it's just another linux box Sep 07 20:53:22 there are some interesting unique things about it but for exploring it, knowing linux is key Sep 07 20:53:53 hey am i choosing wifi & evdo both after configuring dropbear? Sep 07 20:54:01 i agree with all of that lol Sep 07 20:54:06 or just wifi Sep 07 20:54:06 ? Sep 07 20:54:22 i choose both Sep 07 20:54:58 ok fingers crossed. installing ssh Sep 07 20:54:58 :) Sep 07 21:04:29 do i need quilt if I am using preware and quickinstall for patching Sep 07 21:04:29 ? Sep 07 21:04:51 install it, you will probably use it later on Sep 07 21:06:33 ok Sep 07 21:07:01 do u have any link for puTTY for mac OSX? Sep 07 21:10:26 not really sure, you can try this one, you would have to ask someone using a mac Sep 07 21:11:50 just need terminal Sep 07 21:11:54 and novacom Sep 07 21:12:11 going over usb is pretty well supported on os x Sep 07 21:12:44 in mac cant he do it through ssh username@ipaddress in the terminal Sep 07 21:12:47 Ehsan: yeah, Terminal.app on mac OS X gives you a shell Sep 07 21:12:59 there you go Sep 07 21:13:03 and then you can novaterm or ssh from there Sep 07 21:13:31 does it need to be username@ipaddress:portnumber Sep 07 21:13:42 ugh it made a smiley Sep 07 21:13:44 ok because cyberduck is not working in snow leopard Sep 07 21:13:50 ok its rebooting Sep 07 21:14:12 i will ssh once Pre comes back Sep 07 21:14:41 yeah, I think OSX comes with openssh binaries Sep 07 21:14:47 just "ssh" at command line Sep 07 21:15:41 yeah, the terminal can do whatever you want Sep 07 21:16:58 okay, I guess I'm just stupid...aren't I supposed to be able to decompress an .ipk with tar? Sep 07 21:17:19 sugardave: nope Sep 07 21:17:45 sugardave: ar -x whatever.ipk (but you'll want to be in a new directory because they'll generally extract everything into current dir) Sep 07 21:17:49 ah, well that makes me feel better....I think :D Sep 07 21:17:58 ar != tar Sep 07 21:18:03 okay, need to get ar for cygwin installed Sep 07 21:18:07 thanks, destinal! Sep 07 21:18:12 sugardave: yw Sep 07 21:18:33 they tell me you can use 7zip for windows to extract them too Sep 07 21:18:35 never tried Sep 07 21:18:38 i was going to push the led patch to git but i think ill wait for the official 1.2 and see if it enables it or not Sep 07 21:26:04 anyone gotten alsa / audio working in the emulator? I unmuted a bunch of devices with amixer and now cat /dev/urandom > /dev/audio works, but aplay does not. Sep 07 21:27:48 do i have to be in dev mode in order to access ssh? I am not able to get in when i turned off dev mode which did auto restart Sep 07 21:28:46 i dont believe so Sep 07 21:28:54 ehsan, i recommend reading the wiki a couple times over ... Sep 07 21:28:57 no dev mode doesn't have to be on Sep 07 21:29:09 Ehsan, what syntax are you using with ssh? Sep 07 21:29:35 i am trying command ssh username@ipaddress:222 Sep 07 21:29:37 does he need the port number at the end of the ipaddress going through the mac terminal?? Sep 07 21:29:51 it might be username@ip -p 222 Sep 07 21:29:53 its giving me error could not resolve host name Sep 07 21:30:09 ip might have changed? Sep 07 21:30:33 thats why mine is static on the home wifi Sep 07 21:30:34 i am looking at whatsmyip app Sep 07 21:30:40 mine too Sep 07 21:30:43 linux wifi Sep 07 21:30:51 er.. Sep 07 21:30:53 linksys Sep 07 21:30:55 use evdo to look at that site Sep 07 21:30:56 dang it Sep 07 21:31:15 ok Sep 07 21:31:29 you could ssh through your local network but your router probably blocks 222 by default, for the one time use you're going to get out of it, just use your evdo address Sep 07 21:35:01 no its same error with EVDO. let me check if i can do port forwarding on my router. Sep 07 21:41:27 k i guess i will visit the process again. I am pretty sure everything went fine. lets redo the process and i will be back Sep 07 21:41:38 shouldnt need to open the port for local network Sep 07 21:41:53 router shouldnt block the local traffic Sep 07 21:42:15 it could be a software firewall on the mac though Sep 07 21:49:58 is there a way to clean out the patches without a complete restore? Sep 07 21:50:31 one at a time? Sep 07 21:50:47 look here http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches at removing patches Sep 07 21:50:49 haha Sep 07 21:50:57 thx Sep 07 21:51:22 trying to figure out why my txt notifcations no longer appear Sep 07 21:51:33 they seemed to have stopped after the virt keyboard was installed Sep 07 21:51:46 * oil blames virtual keyboard Sep 07 21:51:57 oil cant you uninstall the keyboard from preware?? Sep 07 21:52:05 im pretty sure Sep 07 21:52:08 i haven't installed it Sep 07 21:52:16 I can't seem to get it fully uninstalled Sep 07 21:52:20 the virt keyboard that is Sep 07 21:52:26 shows up on preware Sep 07 21:52:30 but errors on install Sep 07 21:52:37 whats the error? Sep 07 21:52:45 Error Sep 07 21:52:47 appmenu>ipkglog Sep 07 21:52:49 no other into Sep 07 21:52:50 after it errors Sep 07 21:52:56 k Sep 07 21:52:58 let me look Sep 07 21:53:01 without leaving hte app view scene Sep 07 21:54:16 oil you left before i could say anything last night, 085 works great im lovin it Sep 07 21:55:00 thats good Sep 07 21:55:13 hmmm - quilt saying no patches applied Sep 07 21:55:27 but preware doesn't show virt keyboard avail Sep 07 21:55:29 well if you applied it with preware it wont say its applied with quilt Sep 07 21:55:36 if its installed, its not available Sep 07 21:55:40 look in the installed packages list Sep 07 21:56:05 ah - that's moved from the prev vers. thx Sep 07 21:56:24 removing virt keyboard via preware Sep 07 21:56:43 sushi2, thank you for the update Sep 07 21:57:54 cheer! text notifications are back now Sep 07 21:58:02 lol? Sep 07 21:58:04 looks like the virt keyboard was the problem Sep 07 21:58:14 see preware save all Sep 07 21:58:28 i dont know how the keyboard is breaking your notifications Sep 07 21:58:40 neither do i Sep 07 21:58:41 to my knowledge, it doesnt touch anything having to do with the messaging app Sep 07 21:58:55 but I can tell you if I have it installed, my text messages do not show up in the notification area Sep 07 21:59:36 and after removing them, my notifications (specifically txt) are back Sep 07 22:00:05 you are an abomination Sep 07 22:00:10 zsoc: if you send me your email address, i'll keep you informed on all my updates Sep 07 22:00:24 * sushi2 configures a twitter-like annoy feed for zsoc Sep 07 22:03:09 sushi2, honestly, i liked it. i lean more that way myself, too much info Sep 07 22:03:16 sushi2, want to know something really awesome? Sep 07 22:03:30 zsoc: hit me ;) Sep 07 22:04:21 sushi2, gstreamer 0.10.21 doesn't build on the pre. 0.10.20 does, and takes 28 minutes to build. 0.10.22 does, and takes 32 minutes to build. 0.10.21 fails on install due to an unknown glib bug. Sep 07 22:04:36 That's what most of my day was found discovering :P Sep 07 22:04:44 zsoc: thanks for the update Sep 07 22:04:46 ^_^ Sep 07 22:05:28 Also, the native version on the pre hardware has no libs from the build, so there's no way to tell what version it is. There's markers in the 'strings' output of the .so that leads me to believe it's 0.10.21 but there's no good way to tell Sep 07 22:06:09 Ehsan: hows it going?? Sep 07 22:06:17 * zsoc has to remember to type exit 3 times to get out of his environments Sep 07 22:06:20 brb Sep 07 22:10:17 PuffTheMagic: FYI, Palm pulled the 1.2 webosdoctor image shortly after it was noticed. it's not an official release. Sep 07 22:12:34 oh Sep 07 22:12:40 i didnt hear/realize it got pulled Sep 07 22:14:23 mickey|bbl: good to see you finally talk in the channel ;-) Sep 07 22:14:42 rwhitby: :) Sep 07 22:14:44 rwhitby, you should have been here before (unless that's what you were referring to). Sep 07 22:14:56 zsoc: I read the backlogs Sep 07 22:15:28 rwhitby, ah, in which case, i dare say the man knows what he's talking about ;) We should start a fund and donate him a pre, lol. Sep 07 22:17:10 * rwhitby learnt most of what he knows about OE from mickey|bbl Sep 07 22:17:47 specifically in his bbl state? or was that a case of tab-complete convenience? xD Sep 07 22:17:52 hahah Sep 07 22:17:58 here we are Sep 07 22:18:23 mickeyl: let me know if there's anything you need ahead of a GSM release. Sep 07 22:19:41 rwhitby: well, obviously us guys having a device (no matter whether cdma or gsm) would be good to do some preparations. the hot phase of course starts with the availability of the GSM models, but I think we probably could get warm with the rest of the system already. Sep 07 22:20:09 a find /sys would be nice :) Sep 07 22:20:23 i'd like to see how many class devices are being used Sep 07 22:20:45 ok, someone with a Pre here who can capture a find /sys for mickeyl ? Sep 07 22:20:56 sure, let me get my usb cable quick Sep 07 22:21:09 you might beat me bpadalino, i gotta wait for my configure to finish Sep 07 22:23:28 http://lebowski.eatcheese.biz/~bpadalino/sysstuff Sep 07 22:24:24 other requests ? Sep 07 22:25:25 hi 5! Sep 07 22:25:32 bpadalino: will come back to that. thanks so far! Sep 07 22:25:38 no problem Sep 07 22:26:42 hmm Sep 07 22:26:45 i like what i see Sep 07 22:26:50 * bpadalino blushes Sep 07 22:26:52 why thank you Sep 07 22:26:54 mickeyl: we have kernel source at opensource.palm.com Sep 07 22:27:37 rwhitby: great. i'll have a thorough look at that. the sysfs tree looks pretty good. i'm enlightened to see lots of standard stuff Sep 07 22:28:17 mickeyl: palm have done a good job on the kernel Sep 07 22:28:33 chrisa and geist have done well ;-) Sep 07 22:31:50 hm... the writer of 'echo' is unknown? i wonder how many core utilities are like that Sep 07 22:32:01 * zsoc reads man pages while his code compiles Sep 07 22:34:45 interesting Sep 07 22:37:59 interesting? the number of self referential comments in the linux kernel? Sep 07 22:38:07 so you can approximate 1.2 in the emulator by just copying over all of /usr/palm and all of /usr/lib/luna Sep 07 22:38:50 mickeyl: the are missing LOTs of standard stuff Sep 07 22:39:45 PuffTheMagic: what in particular? Sep 07 22:41:14 well maybe it cause im used to looking for the more depricated /sys features Sep 07 22:41:23 hehe Sep 07 22:41:28 which could just be disabled in kernel Sep 07 22:41:34 does anybody on here have 1.2 installed? Sep 07 22:41:42 but since they use such an old userland Sep 07 22:41:58 i would think they would need the depricated /sys entries Sep 07 22:42:18 edektor, why would anyone install 1.2 on a production unit? Sep 07 22:42:49 anyone used the new PreLoad version that uses our Package Manager Service as the backend? Sep 07 22:42:55 just wondering... I sure a bunch of people have Sep 07 22:43:13 edektor, ah, i'm sure a bunch of people have as well :) Sep 07 22:43:13 im* Sep 07 22:43:27 new preload? Sep 07 22:43:31 yep Sep 07 22:43:34 and thats why I was asking if anybody in here has Sep 07 22:43:41 oil: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1875527#post1875527 Sep 07 22:43:43 rwhitby, i'm refusing to even go near preload. even precentral is becoming a pit. Sep 07 22:44:14 edektor: i do Sep 07 22:44:30 Pit of noobs Sep 07 22:44:53 Coming soon: Indiana Jones and the pit of n00bs Sep 07 22:44:55 theo: when you save an image to your photos in the browser does it actually save it Sep 07 22:44:55 is he using rawlist? Sep 07 22:45:03 or is that unimplemented yet Sep 07 22:45:08 destinal, will there be aliens? Sep 07 22:45:14 lol Sep 07 22:45:21 Or nazi's? Sep 07 22:45:23 ket me try real quick Sep 07 22:45:29 there has to be nazis Sep 07 22:45:31 Or aliennazizombies? Sep 07 22:45:46 and Sean connery Sep 07 22:46:19 actually I guess in the last Indy movie, Russians Sep 07 22:46:55 edektor: works without a hitch, save under a miscellaneous ablum Sep 07 22:46:59 rwhitby: they've got repository addition xD Sep 07 22:47:31 sigh. I can get alsa going in the emulator but I can't get media stuff going to it from luna Sep 07 22:47:48 K cause I looked at the method it is calling when you tap copyToPhotos and it didnt look like it was doing anything Sep 07 22:48:23 oil: good thing PreLoad is open source then ;-) Sep 07 22:49:24 didnt he say he thought there was a way around postinst/prerem? Sep 07 22:49:31 that didnt pan out eh? Sep 07 22:49:32 Then it doesn't do anything very well, hehe. Sep 07 22:49:55 oil: dunno, haven't looked. Sep 07 22:51:18 or is he doing everything the same Sep 07 22:51:32 and just passing the pkg name to the service for installation Sep 07 22:51:51 * rwhitby bbl Sep 07 23:13:52 does anybody know what the BrowserAdapter is? Sep 07 23:15:26 edektor: it's a browser plugin that essentially IS the web browser Sep 07 23:15:44 Since Luna is a browser, this is a kind of browser-in-browser setup Sep 07 23:16:07 so are there methods in that executable that are being called from the browser Sep 07 23:17:48 ps aux Sep 07 23:18:01 Ah shit, wrong prompt. Sep 07 23:18:02 edektor: BrowserAdapter.so is a shared lib loaded dynamically by Luna Sep 07 23:18:12 you won't find a second process Sep 07 23:18:43 it uses the NPAPI (the netscape plugin API, also used in WebKit and other browsers) Sep 07 23:19:34 do you know if they use the adapter to save images to the phone? Sep 07 23:19:39 from the broswer Sep 07 23:19:57 basically the browser loads the plugin and calls functions the plugin exports, to provide it with events, including draw events to draw the screen, and keyboard, tap events, and so on Sep 07 23:20:38 if it happens inside the web browser app, it has to do with that binary lib, yeah. Sep 07 23:20:58 what are the plugins written in? Sep 07 23:21:30 All the browser plugins I've seen up to this point have been written in C or C++ Sep 07 23:22:06 though theoretically anything that can make elf binaries would work Sep 07 23:22:10 can I user the browser plugin in my application? Sep 07 23:22:17 use* Sep 07 23:23:32 you could, not sure what it would gain you though Sep 07 23:24:24 I want to use the saving an image to the phone functionality Sep 07 23:24:39 I doubt that's seperable Sep 07 23:24:52 how so? Sep 07 23:25:21 think of the browser plugin more or less like an app Sep 07 23:25:33 yeah, it's wrapped in mojo, but it can do its own complete user interface Sep 07 23:25:54 I'm not sure if you'd achieve much more than having a clone of the web browser app itself Sep 07 23:26:28 there may be some methods the browseradapter exposes to javascript to call via the npruntime interface Sep 07 23:26:56 can I save an image via a service? Sep 07 23:27:17 zsoc|bbl: echo is provided by busybox Sep 07 23:27:26 (haven't read backlog, someone may have beat me) Sep 07 23:27:42 Like a lot of embedded / small oses, we have busybox for a lot of utilities Sep 07 23:27:53 It's nice, and also annoying at times when you don't realize it Sep 07 23:30:17 any idea how much space you're saving using just busybox instead of the real programs ? Sep 07 23:31:00 No idea personally Sep 07 23:31:18 how many times has busybox bitten you in the ass Sep 07 23:31:39 Hmm, I've only fought with it when using echo in a script on the device Sep 07 23:31:58 But that was mostly my fault, I forgot busybox implemented some features I didn't know it had Sep 07 23:34:58 i was a little surprised to see busybox due to the fact you have so much space .. and included so many libraries anyway Sep 07 23:36:55 It may not have been a space issue, that sort of thing was decided long before I was around to see why Sep 07 23:37:03 ah Sep 07 23:42:39 hmm, audio seems to be broken in the emulator, but I'm not really sure why it should be. got the alsa mixer set up right and pulseaudio running, and alsa's tests play sounds at that point, but still nothing via Luna Sep 07 23:43:01 s/io running/io and audiod running/ Sep 07 23:43:01 destinal meant: hmm, audio seems to be broken in the emulator, but I'm not really sure why it should be. got the alsa mixer set up right and pulseaudio and audiod running, and alsa's tests play sounds at that point, but still nothing via Luna Sep 07 23:48:53 anyone in here working on video recording? Sep 07 23:57:52 That's always a peculiar question Sep 08 00:00:37 hrm, you think so ? Sep 08 00:00:56 i don't think many people - if any - are really working on video recording capabilities on the pre Sep 08 00:01:28 I'm told it works fine, but no audio... Sep 08 00:02:11 i heard about those .. moving picture shows - new fangled entertainment Sep 08 00:04:39 yeah, my $40 samsung 520 took great video... Sep 08 00:04:52 presumably the Pre will do video in a few months or a year, cuz wtf? Sep 08 00:05:19 I'm going to point out that the iphone lacked video support for two generations Sep 08 00:07:22 someone knows where to get the 1.2 webos dro i know it :) Sep 08 00:07:32 so we're in for a long wait - is that it ? Sep 08 00:07:40 I didn't say anything like that Sep 08 00:08:27 so what you're saying is that when the pre does get video capabilities, it will also come with editing and automatic uploading capabilities too! Sep 08 00:08:31 thanks chrisa!! :D Sep 08 00:08:49 hehe Sep 08 00:08:55 i heard video was coming with 1.2 Sep 08 00:09:13 i heard 1.2 comes with unicorns and automatic rainbow generation Sep 08 00:09:14 jcrawford: if that were true, the people already playing with 1.2 would have mentioned it Sep 08 00:09:42 i just read something about it Sep 08 00:09:43 You're mistaking that leak as a final build Sep 08 00:09:44 lemme find the link' Sep 08 00:09:46 if it doesn't, i'll be soooo upset with palm .. i mean, what are they paying their devs to do?! Sep 08 00:13:15 1.2 makes the battery last forever Sep 08 00:13:23 never needs to be charged again Sep 08 00:13:29 haha Sep 08 00:16:11 http://discussion.treocentral.com/palm-pre/199417-bell-commercial-revealing-webos-1-2-a.html#post1837810 Sep 08 00:16:15 that was what i read Sep 08 00:17:05 heh, forward "test messages" Sep 08 00:17:06 amusing Sep 08 00:18:21 People really shouldn't take what they see on the screen in commercials as any sort of feature list Sep 08 00:18:47 I mean, look at this comment " And it looks like they improved the gsensor, see how fast the map rotates. " Sep 08 00:19:28 and this same thread calls flash an "activex plugin" Sep 08 00:19:33 oye Sep 08 00:19:50 they also say they heard because a rep told them ... i didn't realize sales turned into engineering as well Sep 08 00:24:38 well, my neighbors girlfriends roomates uncle works for palm, and he said... Sep 08 00:27:53 heh Sep 08 00:37:43 BitchX-1.1-final+ by panasync - Linux 2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430 Sep 08 01:09:06 Decimation, I suppose the answer would be me. Sep 08 01:09:36 Decimation, video recording works. and a gentleman "cpcrook" wrote an app. Problem is there's no way to kill gstreamer (that we can figure) without making a service Sep 08 01:10:32 other problem is palmvideoencoder doesn't encode in a format you can play back on the pre (which is just odd). I fixed that with a few elements, but there's no way around it i can figure without installing those elements/gst-plugins Sep 08 01:10:48 * zsoc doesn't timestamp, so has no idea how long ago that question was asked Sep 08 01:11:06 pre can't play h264 ? Sep 08 01:11:38 thought it did Sep 08 01:11:50 there's a dsp plugin to play it, that's for sure Sep 08 01:12:18 even if you record them to /media/internal, the video player doesn't recognize them when you load it, no idea Sep 08 01:12:26 weird Sep 08 01:12:31 included there's the 'palmvideoencoder' as well as an avi encoder, neither one gets recognized. Sep 08 01:12:36 Media formats supported Sep 08 01:12:38 Audio Formats: MP3, AAC, AAC+, AMR, QCELP, WAV Sep 08 01:12:39 Video Formats: MPEG-4, H.263, H.264 Sep 08 01:12:41 Image Formats: GIF, JPEG, PNG, BM Sep 08 01:13:07 I'll play with it again, honestly wasn't my first project. Honestly I have no idea what I'm doing, so someone with some gstreamer knowledge to work with would be nice ;) Sep 08 01:13:18 zsoc: make a service :) Sep 08 01:13:32 I should add, my pre plays ogg just fine, and flac/wma should be easy Sep 08 01:14:48 bpadalino, to add to your other jest from earier, "on phone encoding" should be relatively simple with the right app. Should be able to take almost any audio format and any video format to any other format, the tough part would be getting the a/v to sync right Sep 08 01:15:13 er, 'muxing', sorry. Sep 08 01:16:34 Decimation, I know not the first thing about services. I would love to work on it, but right now my priorities are 1.) find cpcrook 2.) get gstreamer building plugins that are compatible with the pre's native gst build 100% of the time Sep 08 01:16:59 PuffTheMagic: is a service making machine :) talk to him. Sep 08 01:17:06 zsoc: i'm working on that right now (the gst plugins) Sep 08 01:17:52 ajames, ah, then we're in the same boat, did you end up with 10.21? Because the only version I _cant_ get to build, before and after all work fine. 10.20 shows inconsistances with a few plugins (namely alsa based) Sep 08 01:18:42 i'm building deps for it right now Sep 08 01:18:58 how is .21's build dying? Sep 08 01:19:18 guess i'll find out myself soon Sep 08 01:49:45 if i have this.var1 and this.var2 ... is there a way i can access them using an i=1 or i=2 ? like this.var(i) (or something similar)? Sep 08 01:58:54 hmm, i noticed something new about 1.2 Sep 08 01:59:51 ? Sep 08 01:59:58 well Sep 08 02:00:02 when i restart luna Sep 08 02:00:16 i hear the notification sound like.. 10 seconds before it actually loads Sep 08 02:00:28 huh. Sep 08 02:00:37 like, i hear a notification sound for something on my phone, while its still on the palm loading screen Sep 08 02:00:56 so its like luna has loads, but the palm loading screen keeps showing for 10 more seconds Sep 08 02:01:12 so its as if they improved the luna load time, but kept the loading screen on for the same amount of time? Sep 08 02:01:23 That's what it sounds like lol Sep 08 02:01:28 lolol Sep 08 02:01:46 WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT TO ME Sep 08 02:01:46 lol Sep 08 02:01:49 lololololol <--- looks like a bunch of people in a crowd with their hands up. just noticed that Sep 08 02:02:03 ALL HAIL HITLARR Sep 08 02:02:05 :) Sep 08 02:02:10 lulz Sep 08 02:02:22 zsoc: how'd you get ogg support working? I'm assuming that didn't come with it? Sep 08 02:02:39 or a bunch of people pretending to be ancient egyptians Sep 08 02:03:27 destinal, uh.. ogg plugins come in one of the gst plugin packages.. also "working" was slightly inaccurate. it's not like i can open up my music app and start listening Sep 08 02:08:46 soon Sep 08 02:11:52 Yeah, ajames just fixed it 5 seconds ago. because he's awesome. Sep 08 02:19:20 just part of the gstreamer build Sep 08 02:20:02 hm? Sep 08 02:20:05 zsoc: how do you play oggs then? :) Sep 08 02:20:14 has /usr/lib/BrowserServerPlugins/GeolocationAdapter.so always been there? Sep 08 02:20:32 DraX, it's getting there. bother ajames, he's the one that'll actually make it functioning :) Sep 08 02:20:59 * ajames bbqs chicken Sep 08 02:21:35 it would involve editing the music app i'd imagine. know nothing about the webos app side of things :) not yet atleast Sep 08 02:22:17 man i want a pre :/ Sep 08 02:24:13 Yes, yes you do. EVERYONE WANTS A PRE. Sep 08 02:24:40 this whole lack of gsm thing Sep 08 02:25:56 hmm Sep 08 02:26:04 what is tiopenmax? Sep 08 02:26:13 # ipkg info tiopenmax Sep 08 02:26:40 /usr/lib/libOMX.TI.AAC.decode.so /usr/lib/libOMX.TI.AAC.encode.so /usr/lib/libOMX.TI.MP3.decode.so /usr/lib/libOMX.TI.WMA.decode.so etc Sep 08 02:27:10 That's on your pre? Sep 08 02:27:16 probably related to the DSP in the processor Sep 08 02:27:20 zsoc: yeah Sep 08 02:27:25 DraX: and yes, yes it is. Sep 08 02:27:25 libs for accelerated decoding via some dsp? Sep 08 02:27:35 i'm shooting for tremor Sep 08 02:27:45 what he said Sep 08 02:28:27 but it'd be great if someone had docs or links about the onboard dsp Sep 08 02:28:36 something to think about for the future Sep 08 02:28:50 if it's jjust the standard omap sp Sep 08 02:28:52 dsp Sep 08 02:28:56 it should be well documented, no? Sep 08 02:30:47 i would suppose Sep 08 02:32:08 heh - good luck getting that doco without an NDA Sep 08 02:32:27 that's what i'm concerned about Sep 08 02:32:36 it might be out there, but then again... Sep 08 02:33:23 ah rod.. always killing our dreams with your accurate quips of truth Sep 08 02:33:23 * freakout is worried he'll look stupid(er) for throwing this out there Sep 08 02:33:24 i saw someone mention a 3d chip that's not being used Sep 08 02:33:27 But: http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/psheets/man_dsp.htm Sep 08 02:33:34 anyone know if there's truth to that? Sep 08 02:33:59 omap3430 is supposed to have a powervr gpu Sep 08 02:34:14 or so says wikipedia Sep 08 02:34:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_OMAP Sep 08 02:34:55 The DSP is TMS320C64x+ , there's a few programming guides listed for it. Sep 08 02:35:01 Don't know if that helps any. Sep 08 02:35:25 Not free from the looks of it. Sep 08 02:35:27 nice Sep 08 02:35:28 thanks Sep 08 02:35:43 freakout, what did i tell you about being helpful? back in your hole! Sep 08 02:35:49 Re: PowerVR: "1.4.2 SGX Register Description For more information about register descriptions, contact your TI representative. " Sep 08 02:35:49 * freakout cowers Sep 08 02:36:10 * zsoc looks in the phonebook for his TI representative Sep 08 02:36:41 zsoc: that's code for "unless you're going to buy 1M+ units, don't bother" Sep 08 02:37:05 I was drawn to that assumption... ^_^ Sep 08 02:37:19 is there a good pre news site (read: not precentral) Sep 08 02:37:25 i know an engineer at ti, i'll ask him tomorrow Sep 08 02:37:36 hey freakout Sep 08 02:37:43 ajames, stop being amazing. and be in here more :P Sep 08 02:37:51 hey Eguy Sep 08 02:37:57 How are ye Sep 08 02:38:22 Irritated that I still can't access my PIC blog account Sep 08 02:38:35 Getting ready to go for a 2.5km run Sep 08 02:38:43 And I have a maddening itch on my lower left leg. Sep 08 02:41:12 Oh. And I was just handed a sweet TARDIS t-shirt. Sep 08 02:41:35 * freakout looks around, notices annoyed glances. Switches to webos-watercooler Sep 08 02:42:04 freakout, no one is annoyed, just remember it's all logged xD FOREVER. Sep 08 02:45:40 DraX: Palm Infocenter, IMHO, is awesome. Sep 08 02:45:54 DraX: Even if lately all it feels like we do is re-link Precentral stories and forum posts. Sep 08 02:46:10 (disclosure: I write for it so am not impartial. :P ) Sep 08 02:46:17 :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Sep 08 02:59:57 2009