**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 17 02:59:57 2009 Sep 17 03:00:41 BTW here's smartreflex Sep 17 03:00:41 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_webOS_CPU_Frequency_or_Voltage_Scaling Sep 17 03:00:44 why can't i start a thread yet in the homebrew apps section asfawlfwo /rabble rabble Sep 17 03:01:24 zsoc: on stock battery? Sep 17 03:01:30 Abyssul: looks like the patch failed to apply to the messaging application Sep 17 03:01:42 Mmhmm Sep 17 03:01:46 i'm thinking the Pre and the Emulator files may be sligtly different Sep 17 03:01:50 Then you could simply have an app that you can open at any time and click a button to send coordinates to a specified email. Or you could move a slider to have it send at intervals Sep 17 03:02:08 It doesn't seem like SmartReflex has much of a impact. Sep 17 03:02:24 How long have you been using it Sep 17 03:02:28 ill have a quick look, bare with me.... Sep 17 03:03:05 punzada, yep Sep 17 03:03:08 greg_roll: you can get the pre files from the doctor image Sep 17 03:03:50 good to see some nice bleeding edge alpha testing happening in here :-) Sep 17 03:04:05 greg_roll: I've successfully copied /usr/palm from doctor image to emulator and run it Sep 17 03:04:07 rwhitby, maybe too bleeding edge ;) Sep 17 03:04:09 so you can test Sep 17 03:04:15 zsoc: blaspemy Sep 17 03:04:24 zsoc: people running stuff in here know the rules when they joined ;-) Sep 17 03:05:12 What the heck is too bleeding edge zsoc, alpha isn't descriptive enough for you :P Sep 17 03:05:17 Windows live plugin would be nice than useing mebo :p Sep 17 03:05:36 Hope we can get it to work Sep 17 03:05:42 Wow, I just got shanked :( sorry guys, i kid i kid Sep 17 03:05:55 Abyssul: do you have console access? Sep 17 03:05:56 All in fun sockter Sep 17 03:05:57 s/pe/ph/ Sep 17 03:06:00 destinal_home meant: zsoc: blasphmy Sep 17 03:06:10 * destinal_home hides Sep 17 03:06:13 So hows the work with directfb contained into a card going? Sep 17 03:06:42 s/sockter/sockster Sep 17 03:06:52 Console access? Do you mean root? Sep 17 03:06:56 * zsoc compiles snes9x for arm Sep 17 03:07:08 k4p741nkrunch, thanks for the nickname, a little odd tho :> Sep 17 03:07:23 yep root, if so can you run... "/usr/bin/luna-send -i palm://org.greg.messaging/PatchMessagingApp {}" Sep 17 03:07:24 tell me what it says Sep 17 03:07:26 Thought it fit your personality ;) Sep 17 03:07:29 zsoc: ameng is the one to ask, I think he's getting close to a public release Sep 17 03:07:31 Sure thing Sep 17 03:07:37 Let it reboot, I just implemented SmartReflex Sep 17 03:07:46 Has anyone compiled the SNES emu for the Pre? Sep 17 03:07:48 destinal, i poked at him the other day, he's a genius and i don't understand a word he says, way over my head lol Sep 17 03:07:49 no worries :) Sep 17 03:08:03 Oh crap Sep 17 03:08:19 I swear I didn't see that zsoc Sep 17 03:08:19 k4p741nkrunch, was my emote not clear enough? It builds fine btw ;) Sep 17 03:08:25 lol, that's really random then ;) Sep 17 03:08:37 Cen I haz? Sep 17 03:08:51 * zsoc wonders if he could get it to sync to the display if he closes luna Sep 17 03:09:04 http://pastebin.com/d76c72b52 Sep 17 03:09:12 k4p741nkrunch, has what? the build program? if you want, won't really do you much good Sep 17 03:09:20 s/build/built/ Sep 17 03:09:21 zsoc meant: k4p741nkrunch, has what? the built program? if you want, won't really do you much good Sep 17 03:09:42 Why wouldn't it do me much good? Sep 17 03:10:13 k4p741nkrunch, how would you get it to work? I mean.. i think the syncing to display 0:0 thing borks it Sep 17 03:10:34 wow its failing to move the file /var/tmp/messaging-constants.js to /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.messaging/app/models/messaging-constants.js Sep 17 03:10:38 I thought it was stable Sep 17 03:11:02 if you manually did that then run "/usr/bin/luna-send -i palm://org.greg.messaging/RestartLuna {}" what happens? Sep 17 03:11:03 stable on the emulator ;) Sep 17 03:11:08 greg_roll: are you aware that the pre has a read only rootfs? Sep 17 03:11:24 you need to mount -o remount,rw / to write to it Sep 17 03:11:34 ah destinal, always solving complicated debugging problems with the most obvious answers Sep 17 03:11:38 destinal_home: crap really? see what happens when I only have an emulator :( Sep 17 03:12:25 then once i've done all the work how do i make it read only again? Sep 17 03:12:28 greg_roll: it would be nice if we had an accurate qemu-arm that looks just like a pre, even if it was slower than molasses. Sep 17 03:12:47 mount -o remount,ro / Sep 17 03:13:15 destinal_home: i agree, i wish i had a Pre too :) appologies to everyone who has tested. Sep 17 03:13:18 * zsoc still doesn't find the pre that slow Sep 17 03:13:43 greg_roll, it's their own fault really, they should just leave the rootfs mounted writeable all the time ;) Sep 17 03:13:44 zsoc: reliable reports state that qemu-arm on a very fast PC is way way slower than a pre Sep 17 03:14:02 destinal, i see.. er.. why? Sep 17 03:14:02 greg, I just made the drive rewriteable and still got the same error Sep 17 03:14:04 Abyssul: actually... Sep 17 03:14:42 zsoc: probably the emulator needs a lot of optimizations, I think the cortex-a8 compatible stuff is pretty new Sep 17 03:14:46 qemu isn't that much slower than a pre, but enough to make a difference Sep 17 03:14:49 try "sh /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.greg.messaging.postinst" now that the drive is writable, this will re-run the post inst command Sep 17 03:15:01 and it's slow in a weird way. cpu intensive stuff is slower, but io is way faster than the pre Sep 17 03:15:30 also you have to consider that you dont really know the speed of the host that anyone is running on Sep 17 03:15:36 you have to plan on a pretty slow qemu host Sep 17 03:15:51 geist: do you know if you can just build the public qemu-arm svn / cvs or whether special tweaking is required? Sep 17 03:15:59 hmm? Sep 17 03:16:06 geist: qemu-arm on my core duo seem slow as hell Sep 17 03:16:06 not sure i understand Sep 17 03:16:17 geist: I think outside palm, nobody's gotten it to boot webos yet Sep 17 03:16:23 destinal_home: yes you can Sep 17 03:16:26 destinal_home: anyone can build it Sep 17 03:16:32 destinal_home: im using a generic qemu-arm Sep 17 03:16:36 Wowzer lol lots of text... Sep 17 03:16:49 but you want be able to boot a pre image on it for sure Sep 17 03:17:02 since it expects the hardware to look a particular way Sep 17 03:17:22 geist: ah, so you have a special qemu build internally Sep 17 03:17:25 yeah that part wouldb probably not mesh up Sep 17 03:17:28 build of webos i mean Sep 17 03:17:34 it's the sdk Sep 17 03:17:43 it just so happens we picked x86 to run Sep 17 03:17:46 since it runs better Sep 17 03:17:57 destinal_home: it shouldnt be that hard to tweak qemu to support the omap 3430/sirloin board :D Sep 17 03:18:07 yeah but for arm, the one you said was slow, was built the same way as the x86 version, a different build than for pre Sep 17 03:18:36 yes... Sep 17 03:18:36 destinal_home: emulating arm on x86 is not very efficient... i think Sep 17 03:18:41 right Sep 17 03:18:41 ok, I should have guessed that :-/ Sep 17 03:19:00 more so than that if you run it on a assisted hypervisor style thing Sep 17 03:19:02 destinal_home: my 2ghz core duo felt like a 450mhz p3 on the arm size Sep 17 03:19:10 it runs at essentually full native speed Sep 17 03:19:26 but no, there is no emulator to try to emulate hardware directly Sep 17 03:19:32 Announcement: ipkgservice 0.9.2 with Theme feed is now released Sep 17 03:19:34 that would be a collosal undertaking Sep 17 03:19:46 that really doens't make any sense. since we can build all of the software, and it's already portable Sep 17 03:19:53 may as well just make a special build for emulators Sep 17 03:20:22 http://pastebin.com/m69ca855b Sep 17 03:20:29 full hardware emulators are very very hard to get right Sep 17 03:20:46 so what is really needed is to build a new generic arm kernel that does boot in qemu-arm Sep 17 03:20:53 and then run the userland on top of that Sep 17 03:21:05 (most of it anyway should work) Sep 17 03:21:06 * geist shrugs Sep 17 03:21:12 k4p741nkrunch, snes9x does not support directfb, or even building in arm for that matter, off to find another solution :) Sep 17 03:21:14 a lot of it wont Sep 17 03:21:36 geist: true, same for emulator though Sep 17 03:21:44 right, which is why we dont bother Sep 17 03:21:59 well, we do bother, but while we were at it we went ahead and compiled it as x86 Sep 17 03:22:03 yeah, it's not worth trying to fully emulate the hardware (especially not for all platforms) Sep 17 03:22:23 Haha Sep 17 03:22:25 Abyssul: some of those errors are caused do to the fact you have rebooted since and tmp is now missing files, but it looks like it may have worked? Sep 17 03:22:28 I see our confusion now Sep 17 03:22:30 did luna restart? Sep 17 03:22:33 I was talking about FCEUltra Sep 17 03:22:41 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Nintendo Sep 17 03:22:45 Do you want me to try to reinstall with the .jar Sep 17 03:22:51 then run that command Sep 17 03:22:56 geist: I was surprised initially to see the emu was x86 way back when but I think it's a great choice, and wonder why other phone developers never did the same Sep 17 03:23:01 It did restart the luna service Sep 17 03:23:10 of course someone has to show Contra Sep 17 03:23:15 the best game ever! Sep 17 03:23:16 destinal_home, greg_roll: the installer does the rw rootfs, the postinst doesn't need to worry about it. Sep 17 03:23:23 destinal_home: we can get away with it because 3rd parties can't write native code Sep 17 03:23:26 so it doesn't matter Sep 17 03:23:38 k4p741nkrunch, ah, didn't see that, pretty much genius Sep 17 03:24:07 is there a reason it's not possible to get a terminal outside of luna? i mean.. there HAS TO BE tty directfb support. Sep 17 03:24:24 geist: and even if they could, rebuilding the same code on x86 works the same way the majority of the time given the interfaces we get Sep 17 03:24:31 yep Sep 17 03:24:47 zsoc: actually no Sep 17 03:24:52 rwhitby: are you storing/restoring the rw/ro state in ipkgservice yet Sep 17 03:24:57 PuffTheMagic: not yet Sep 17 03:24:59 it's something we keep meaning to get to, but we actually haven't tried yet Sep 17 03:25:09 it's probably just a kernel option somewhere Sep 17 03:25:32 plus maybe some help from luna, but just haven't really fooled with it yet Sep 17 03:25:36 zsoc: there is directfb included on the pre if you kill luna Sep 17 03:25:47 luna doesn't share well at the moment however Sep 17 03:25:49 yeah, but i'm thinking about the console swap from the kernel itself Sep 17 03:25:53 ah, right Sep 17 03:26:06 in theory we can just enable that. i'll fool around with it one of these days Sep 17 03:26:12 but as usual we're totally busy all the time Sep 17 03:26:14 Whatca want me to do greg? Sep 17 03:26:14 such is life Sep 17 03:26:18 destinal, i get that part, i'm just confused as to why we can't kill luna and get a tty Sep 17 03:26:39 Abyssul: if you wouldnt mind running the .jar again then run "sh /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.greg.messaging.postinst". (with the file system as R/W) Sep 17 03:26:45 zsoc: it's cause we killed it Sep 17 03:26:49 anyone create a debsmall.img for their Pre? I don't have a linux setup right now Sep 17 03:27:00 fbconsole is disabled most of the time Sep 17 03:27:14 geist, i wasn't blaming palm, but why? i mean, you see the hack that was put together for the terminal app Sep 17 03:27:24 zsoc: you can kill it Sep 17 03:27:24 k4p741nkrunch: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Debian Sep 17 03:27:26 k4p741nkrunch, yeah i got a good chroot Sep 17 03:27:32 zsoc: but you need to start getty Sep 17 03:27:40 zsoc: there was some reason for it, i dont remember anymore Sep 17 03:27:42 zsoc: there is no getty by default i beleive Sep 17 03:27:43 power management or something Sep 17 03:27:50 just didn't want gettys floating around Sep 17 03:27:52 destinal you have to build from linux Sep 17 03:27:59 PuffTheMagic, so you can install/start getty, kill luna, start getty? maybe a script to do that? would be awesome Sep 17 03:28:14 geist, upstart i think has a config option for that actually Sep 17 03:28:14 Whoa, luna restarted this time Sep 17 03:28:22 zsoc: add an event.d file for getty on tty1, then start it Sep 17 03:28:23 or if there is a resize2fs equivalent on the Doze Sep 17 03:28:29 zsoc: yep, probably Sep 17 03:28:46 zsoc: i've done it Sep 17 03:28:50 when i was testing chvt Sep 17 03:29:01 and trying to get vt switching working Sep 17 03:29:05 or testing it Sep 17 03:29:09 PuffTheMagic, but i thought i couldn't start it while luna was open? i'm trying to get at being able to kill luna, launch getty, without having to have a shell on ssh somewhere Sep 17 03:29:25 PuffTheMagic: I remember you were playing with it, why did you stop? Sep 17 03:29:37 zsoc: no you are missing the idea Sep 17 03:29:46 PuffTheMagic, clearly, doesn't take much for me to miss an idea. Sep 17 03:29:49 http://pastebin.com/m3bc4e671 Sep 17 03:30:15 zsoc: well without luna you'd need other programs to handle phone control while it's not running Sep 17 03:30:17 zsoc: start getty on tty1 in an event.d file its pretty easy, make it start once evertying else has started Sep 17 03:30:27 so once luna starts getty will start Sep 17 03:30:28 k4p741nkrunch: compile resize2fs with cygwin, it works for files at least Sep 17 03:30:38 then when you kill luna you will be at a login prompt Sep 17 03:30:39 Same error greg, Sep 17 03:30:40 you need a later version for ext4 Sep 17 03:30:47 you also need e2fsck Sep 17 03:31:06 PuffTheMagic: so why couldn't chvt be made to work again? Sep 17 03:31:24 destinal_home: idk, it just didnt work Sep 17 03:31:36 destinal_home: but maybe it had to do with how i was using it in the plugin Sep 17 03:31:42 destinal_home: i could try again from a service Sep 17 03:31:44 PuffTheMagic, ok.. so with getty on tty1... when i killed luna, getty would take over the display? Sep 17 03:32:08 Abyssul: same dots on the messaging app? Sep 17 03:32:12 getty is just a cli app Sep 17 03:32:24 yep Sep 17 03:32:25 on a terminal Sep 17 03:32:39 what are you guys trying to do the nintendo emuilator? Sep 17 03:32:40 :D Sep 17 03:32:43 ? Sep 17 03:32:47 Yeah Sep 17 03:32:51 I am anyways Sep 17 03:32:52 i'm aware of this... so clearly im misunderstanding a basic truth here... Sep 17 03:32:54 zsoc: just try it Sep 17 03:32:59 see what happens Sep 17 03:33:17 sportman: there was a nintendo emulator working in the first days of the pre, it's just making it work without killing luna that's the trick Sep 17 03:33:22 ah Sep 17 03:33:27 thats what they are working on now? Sep 17 03:33:32 zsoc: you can even remove lunasysmgr from the starttup process Sep 17 03:33:32 ameng is fixing that trick i believe ;) Sep 17 03:33:36 and just have a tty Sep 17 03:33:42 i mean just have getty Sep 17 03:33:47 that would be awesome Sep 17 03:33:49 then start luna manaully Sep 17 03:34:21 could you try and move .var.tmp.messaging-constants.js to /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.messaging/app/models/ ? Sep 17 03:34:24 i want it to work with luna Sep 17 03:34:26 zsoc: he's making a plugin that connects to a virtual framebuffer and virtual keyboard and mouse in directfb and renders buffer, accepts input Sep 17 03:34:42 * sportman hopes for sound support too Sep 17 03:34:43 :-p Sep 17 03:34:51 sportman: sound already works Sep 17 03:34:57 that's just alsa / pulseaudio Sep 17 03:35:19 multiuser by nature Sep 17 03:35:21 how does sound work with the emulator? Sep 17 03:35:24 i couldnt get it working Sep 17 03:35:27 did i do something wrong? Sep 17 03:35:36 i just followed the nintendo tut Sep 17 03:36:01 sportman: no idea, but aplay and paplay work so that shouldn't be hard to fix Sep 17 03:36:16 well do i have to install alsa stuff? Sep 17 03:36:19 in the deb? Sep 17 03:36:22 or did it work out of the box Sep 17 03:36:23 no, it's already there Sep 17 03:36:44 yeah, alsa and pulseaudio sound stuff works out of the box Sep 17 03:36:48 well what other app could i use to test audio? Sep 17 03:36:53 pulse is what luna uses Sep 17 03:37:25 ah Sep 17 03:37:41 could i compile like xamp? would that work with the touch screen out out of the box? Sep 17 03:37:43 paplay /usr/palm/sounds/phone.wav Sep 17 03:38:12 from the debian chroot? Sep 17 03:38:17 greg is it "mv /var/tmp/messaging-constants.js /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.messaging/app/models/" ? Sep 17 03:38:18 alright ill give it a shot Sep 17 03:38:30 not debian chroot Sep 17 03:38:33 yep, but if may also fail Sep 17 03:38:34 just regular webos shell Sep 17 03:38:45 ah see im trying to get sound working with apps compiled in debian chroot Sep 17 03:38:47 so, has anyone tested theme installs yet? Sep 17 03:38:49 such as the nintendo emulator... Sep 17 03:38:54 you may have to rename /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.messaging/app/models/messaging-constants.js to something else then try Sep 17 03:39:07 rwhitby, er.. preware installed themes? Sep 17 03:39:09 whitby is new alpha up of Preware with theme support? Sep 17 03:39:10 sportman: well you can compile then in a chroot, just run them outside it Sep 17 03:39:12 zsoc: yep Sep 17 03:39:22 i can run fceux outside of chroot? Sep 17 03:39:23 k4p741nkrunch: ipkgservice 0.9.2 Sep 17 03:39:23 * k4p741nkrunch waits for "go check" Sep 17 03:39:28 :P kk Sep 17 03:39:30 i wasn't aware of this? Sep 17 03:39:40 sportman: no idea why you shouldn't Sep 17 03:39:43 ah shit Sep 17 03:39:43 sportman: it's a linux box Sep 17 03:39:45 ill give that a try Sep 17 03:39:46 No errors Sep 17 03:39:55 luna restart? Sep 17 03:40:00 Does it back up current files at all, I've got a custom theme I don't really want overwritten Sep 17 03:40:26 k4p741nkrunch: it does back up current files, but you are alpha testing here, so no guarantees. Sep 17 03:40:33 understood Sep 17 03:40:50 abyssul: yes thanks :) brb Sep 17 03:42:56 rwhitby, is the new ipkg service available somewhere besides the quickinstall feed? Sep 17 03:43:03 nevermind Sep 17 03:43:03 destinal_home: i guess i need to move the binaries? Sep 17 03:43:09 that was a ridiculous question Sep 17 03:43:13 I can see it now greg Sep 17 03:43:35 sportman: well you can run them from anywhere, libs may have to be in a common library path Sep 17 03:43:44 seems like a pain Sep 17 03:43:49 to move it out of the chroot Sep 17 03:44:16 sportman: seems like a pain to run them IN a chroot :P Sep 17 03:44:25 C services can be run from anywhere, browser plugins and java services have a special place Sep 17 03:44:42 or set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH to the chroot's lib dir Sep 17 03:45:02 Where does one find these themes Sep 17 03:45:03 destinal_home: i compiled the nintendo emulator and all libs were downloaded to the debian chroot Sep 17 03:45:14 so like it makes sense to stay inside the chroot? Sep 17 03:45:26 tmzt: or set -rpath during compilation Sep 17 03:45:48 k4p741nkrunch: in Preware, once you've installed ipkgservice 0.9.2 Sep 17 03:45:53 I have Sep 17 03:45:57 hmm Sep 17 03:46:00 Nothing is apparent to me Sep 17 03:46:05 icons dont seem to be loading Sep 17 03:46:19 Lemme try refreshing luna Sep 17 03:46:20 whoa why is rpath comming up again Sep 17 03:46:28 what are you guys doing with this debain chroot? Sep 17 03:46:40 Prethemer looks nice. Sep 17 03:47:05 Compiling Nintendo Sep 17 03:47:06 greg: the buttons show up correctly now, but I dont think the service works Sep 17 03:47:38 k4p741nkrunch: i can make an ipk for it Sep 17 03:47:46 i already have a chroot to build in Sep 17 03:48:03 Pleeeease Sep 17 03:48:11 AnOutsider: need to remove the { } from around the icon url Sep 17 03:48:12 And dammit still no themes in Preware Sep 17 03:48:26 * hmagoo is back (gone 15:47:11) Sep 17 03:48:28 oh wtf, just noticed Sep 17 03:48:38 I'm looking too, Sep 17 03:49:00 k4p741nkrunch: is there even packager for themes yet? Sep 17 03:49:01 Where are the themes supposed to be Sep 17 03:49:11 k4p741nkrunch: do you have Show All Package Types set to yes in your preferences? Sep 17 03:49:12 under avialable apps Sep 17 03:49:14 themes category Sep 17 03:49:16 Templarian: prethemer.com Sep 17 03:49:25 woot, I see the icons Sep 17 03:49:29 Don't have a themes category Sep 17 03:49:41 Confirmed 0.9.2 ipkgservice Sep 17 03:49:48 oh didn't look at that, was busy redoing the icons and such. will look at them tomorrow. Sep 17 03:50:30 k4p741nkrunch: or go into the PreThemer feed Sep 17 03:50:37 I guess a luna refresh didn't work, I'll try rebooting Sep 17 03:50:39 AnOutsider: icons, nice ;-) Sep 17 03:50:57 No prethemer feed for me Sep 17 03:50:58 AnOutsider: next, screenshots ... Sep 17 03:51:00 rebooting Sep 17 03:51:00 kinda makeshift, but they'll do Sep 17 03:51:09 AnOutsider: they look great. Sep 17 03:51:11 screenshots are in the feed, is there anything else I need to do? Sep 17 03:51:16 so non webos related Sep 17 03:51:18 question Sep 17 03:51:34 if you were a consultant how much a month commision would you want for being a web hosting or server affiliate? Sep 17 03:51:36 lol Sep 17 03:51:46 AnOutsider: http://www.prethemer.com/images/themes/ss-phone.png <- not found on server Sep 17 03:51:47 yeah, no theme feed yet for me either. Sep 17 03:51:48 rwhitby, er... totally not working Sep 17 03:51:50 is 10% commision a month reasonable? Sep 17 03:51:59 thats not current tho Sep 17 03:52:17 is it getting SSs from the feed or the individual control files? Sep 17 03:52:19 sportman, it depends on how competent your client is Sep 17 03:52:26 AnOutsider: from the feed Sep 17 03:52:37 AnOutsider: preware doesn't open ipkgs Sep 17 03:53:27 ok, my bad on the feed - fixing now Sep 17 03:53:41 eff, fixed it int he wrong file Sep 17 03:53:51 zsoc: very true Sep 17 03:54:00 but i was saying the consultants wouldnt be my clients Sep 17 03:54:05 their clients would be referred to me Sep 17 03:54:10 to become my clients Sep 17 03:54:21 eh, too complicated Sep 17 03:54:33 rwhitby, will i have to reinstall the service? Sep 17 03:54:36 Abyssul: when you say the service isn't working what happens? what plugins do you have listed in messaging? Sep 17 03:54:55 zsoc 0.9.3 will be out soon Sep 17 03:55:03 hmm, fixed the urls in the feed, still no go Sep 17 03:55:07 zsoc: basic affiliate program why complicated? Sep 17 03:55:08 is it a prob that one is a gif? Sep 17 03:55:18 rwhitby, i see :) Sep 17 03:56:10 greg: do you have aim, msn or etc? Just wondering Sep 17 03:57:08 ok, try ipkgservice 0.9.3 Sep 17 03:57:24 k updating Sep 17 03:57:41 you can update services in preware now :-) Sep 17 03:57:58 yeah too ba dim running an older version of preware on my actual device Sep 17 03:57:59 abyssul: there should be six (live, yahoo, icq, facebook, aim and gtalk) Sep 17 03:58:12 check out the picture here http://cid-e47a245fdc43bd04.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Public/Massaging%20Plugins Sep 17 03:58:13 still no screenies btw Sep 17 03:59:19 Im talking about do you have a screename lol. I have to get to bed but want to continue testing this Sep 17 03:59:39 It presents, AIM, Gtalk, Facebook Chat, ICQ, and Yahoo Sep 17 03:59:43 Live is missing Sep 17 04:00:11 rwhitby, so my java services aren't restarting after postinst... just kinda hanging.. heh Sep 17 04:00:13 rod, gonna hit the sack. Feeds look good for now, so I'll check again in the AM and actually install/update reware on my phone Sep 17 04:00:52 oh there we go, just took way too long.. testing now Sep 17 04:01:03 AnOutsider: ok, it's in our camp now I think. Sep 17 04:01:34 feed is there, installing theme now Sep 17 04:02:48 luna resetting as expected... (btw, you should warn the user of this i think) Sep 17 04:03:12 zsoc: I thought we did. Sep 17 04:03:25 rwhitby, heh, not the "average" user, considering i didn't even realize it lol Sep 17 04:03:29 Wow, didn't know we could actually update the ipkg service through preware now Sep 17 04:03:45 Works flawlessly, unfortunately this theme is _hideous_, so now i get to test uninstalling ;) Sep 17 04:03:57 k4p741nkrunch: yep, we worked out how to change the tyres on a moving car Sep 17 04:04:12 rwhitby, so what's left for 1.0? you guys gotta be close to most of the requirements Sep 17 04:04:32 removing theme now Sep 17 04:04:49 hehe which theme Sep 17 04:04:49 haha nice metaphor Sep 17 04:05:04 AnOutsider, er.. luna something.. i like purple, so i thought it would be nice. it's not :> Sep 17 04:05:05 I created an Underoath theme but I doubt anyone will use it Sep 17 04:05:15 add it maybe they will Sep 17 04:05:32 Do the themes have to be in a particular format or do you just upload the images and server does the rest Sep 17 04:05:32 and tis one? http://www.prethemer.com/Luna-theme5.html by sarah Sep 17 04:05:36 it was one of her earlier ones I think Sep 17 04:05:56 rwhitby, sorry to ping you again, but this is a great success. congratulations on another first :) Sep 17 04:06:07 yeah that one Sep 17 04:06:08 greg, do you use MSN Live or AIM? If so , share screennames Sep 17 04:06:09 zsoc: thank AnOutsider, not me. Sep 17 04:06:20 AnOutsider is the man who did all the work. Sep 17 04:06:33 we just told him the best way to get it into Preware ;-) Sep 17 04:06:41 AnOutsider, only thing i see, and this i suppose is a scripting thing.. after i "remove" the theme, it puts back a default background instead of the one i had, not a big deal i suppose Sep 17 04:06:57 indeed, and it works out well. WOQI and PreWare support will make adopting a standard that much easier Sep 17 04:07:07 rwhitby, well then, as far as work for you :P maybe it would make more sense for the user if you made a "themes" link from the menu, just like the patches link that's there Sep 17 04:07:16 yeah, I mentioned that on the boards, I dont have docs for the wallapper service Sep 17 04:07:17 AnOutsider|Sleep, then congratulations to you sir :) Sep 17 04:07:22 zsoc: oils is already working on that. Sep 17 04:07:29 didnt know if there was like a "restorePrevious" command, so I just go with the default Sep 17 04:07:45 Abyssul: interesting your missing Live..... ill check that out too Sep 17 04:07:46 Then everyone is a genius, lol. Good work again guys. Great success, etc etc. Sep 17 04:07:58 Abyssul: when you say screen name, for what? here? Sep 17 04:07:59 what is the news? Sep 17 04:08:05 I suppose one method would be to poll for current wallpaper, store that, then restore? Sep 17 04:08:09 for those services (aim, msn) Sep 17 04:08:11 I dunno, but I should be sleep, not thinking haha Sep 17 04:08:26 AnOutsider an alt character wouldn't break your feed would it :P Sep 17 04:08:28 screenname is the login essentially, it's an AOL/AIM term Sep 17 04:08:35 MSN live or AIM lol Sep 17 04:08:43 For MSN it would be your email then... Sep 17 04:08:52 lol :p Sep 17 04:08:58 [00:05] Do the themes have to be in a particular format or do you just upload the images and server does the rest Sep 17 04:09:00 do you want ot contact me on msn? Sep 17 04:09:03 upload iamges, server does the grunt work Sep 17 04:09:09 Yes Sep 17 04:09:27 now really, I go now haha Sep 17 04:09:39 AnOutsider|Sleep: I'll answer anything else for you :-) Sep 17 04:09:40 greg_roll: he wants to test the service on the Pre I think Sep 17 04:10:13 sort of following here, but what is this about updating ipkg from Preware? Sep 17 04:10:33 tmzt, apparently you can do it now, i haven't tried Sep 17 04:10:56 * zsoc is preprogrammed to run prerm, install new version with cli ipkg, run postinst Sep 17 04:11:13 this isn't ipkg then, you mean for patches? Sep 17 04:11:59 hm? Sep 17 04:12:02 woot I'm gonna rock the theme creationg Sep 17 04:12:17 * zsoc is going to create 27 themes Sep 17 04:12:18 s/creationg/creation Sep 17 04:12:36 zsoc we think similarly, you notice that? Sep 17 04:13:43 k4p741nkrunch, which is scary, because you have a 1337speak name and quote *chan memes Sep 17 04:14:04 * zsoc shops the wop, etc Sep 17 04:14:22 Me quote *chan memes Sep 17 04:14:31 You talking about I cen haz? Sep 17 04:14:48 I can only hope that's what's going on here Sep 17 04:15:07 * zsoc fires up gimp and starts on a sexy theme Sep 17 04:15:18 I need to concentrate, irc is a distraction! AWAY! Sep 17 04:15:43 That's called being net diverse and socially carefree, and 1337speak? Firstly I'm paying homage to John Draper, the most innovative hacker as he thought outside of the computer realm and it was given to me by my programming teacher Sep 17 04:16:10 And I just fired up GIMP too, so nyeeh Sep 17 04:16:34 k4p741nkrunch, ah, i get it now, actually, that's clever :> Sep 17 04:16:47 greg_roll: I'd love to test for you. Sep 17 04:17:19 no kanye west meme from kap yet? Sep 17 04:17:31 k4p741nkrunch: have you ever met john draper ? Sep 17 04:17:33 tmzt: everything can be updated in Preware now Sep 17 04:17:36 PorkchopExpress: excellent. i have a bit of fixups to do, which ill do tonight/tomorrow and ill contact you then if that's ok? Sep 17 04:17:37 Would love to Sep 17 04:17:47 But no Sep 17 04:17:59 you should make it quick .. he's getting up there in age .. and i think he's down to his last couple of teeth Sep 17 04:18:38 i've met him a couple of times at a few different cons ... he loves to rave Sep 17 04:18:45 Hahaha yeah I imagine so, last I knew his Black Box was still impenetrable. maybe if he applied the same mentality towards his gums Sep 17 04:19:40 i last thought he was running some pirate radio station in south america or something cooky Sep 17 04:19:40 " Hahaha yeah I imagine so, last I knew his Black Box was still impenetrable. maybe if he applied the same mentality towards his gums" <-- i'm writing that in a letter and mailing it to him postmarked "on your deathbed" Sep 17 04:20:12 Hahahaha maybe then he'd know I exist Sep 17 04:20:18 * zsoc|gone realizes he's gone.. , "Crap, this always happens" Sep 17 04:20:29 Ok, gone now! LOVE AND PEACE! Sep 17 04:20:58 The name stuck on me, and I've always been in love with Phreaking Sep 17 04:21:00 is there a good reason to disable dev mode after installing optware/preware ? Sep 17 04:21:10 the wiki seems to say to disable it. Sep 17 04:21:27 makes it easy to get into the phone even if you have a PIN for unlockin Sep 17 04:21:28 g Sep 17 04:21:52 hm, so it's for security Sep 17 04:22:05 easy? with usb? Sep 17 04:22:11 it's definitely not for convenience :) Sep 17 04:22:12 tmzt: yes Sep 17 04:22:56 Does a non-root user have write access to /media/internal by default? Sep 17 04:23:02 k4p741nkrunch: i honestly think joybubbles was a bit more impressive ... i never met him Sep 17 04:23:06 preware 0.9.0 in the testing feed ready for alpha testing Sep 17 04:23:10 but boy would that have been amazing Sep 17 04:23:11 Woot woot Sep 17 04:23:13 virtual keyboard 0.1.9 too Sep 17 04:23:30 I live in MA and there's never any gatherings up here Sep 17 04:23:40 What's new with the keyboard? Sep 17 04:23:41 k4p741nkrunch: what? #webosboston Sep 17 04:23:43 greg_roll: Perfect! Looking forward to it. Sep 17 04:23:53 k4p741nkrunch: check the changelog in the description Sep 17 04:24:08 rwhitby: what does .9 do that's new? Sep 17 04:24:21 rick_home: themes Sep 17 04:24:25 ahhhh Sep 17 04:24:29 not for me then Sep 17 04:24:32 lol Sep 17 04:24:37 I can't install it for some strange reason, not even through quick install Sep 17 04:24:47 I changed my wallpaper to a photo of my dog, and I was done. Sep 17 04:24:56 k4p741nkrunch: did you remove 0.1.3 first? Sep 17 04:24:57 * oil tries one out in the emulator Sep 17 04:26:16 I don't have any version installed Sep 17 04:26:25 I can't explain whats going on Sep 17 04:26:48 I had it installed before, then I doctored, and since then I CANNOT install it, not through quick install or preware Sep 17 04:26:59 is there a voip phone app for the pre? Sep 17 04:27:01 looking for an alpha test success report on preware 0.9.0 before pushing it out to the public feeds ... Sep 17 04:29:57 rwhitby: where does one go to get the alpha version to install? Sep 17 04:29:59 :D Sep 17 04:30:01 the gifs should really be removed Sep 17 04:30:03 seriously Sep 17 04:30:09 user experience goes out the window Sep 17 04:30:20 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/testing/all/ Sep 17 04:31:36 rwhitby: do i have to use the web os quick isntall and uninstall the old version first? Sep 17 04:31:42 or can i just install the new one as a replacement? Sep 17 04:31:53 sportman: depends Sep 17 04:32:07 on? Sep 17 04:32:23 what you're using to install it Sep 17 04:32:33 Web OS Quick install .jar Sep 17 04:32:35 for mac Sep 17 04:32:41 i'm going to do the "next steps" on mine right now Sep 17 04:32:48 it lets u select the ipk you want to install Sep 17 04:32:53 so i could uninstall the old preware first Sep 17 04:33:00 or just install this one and see if it auto replaces Sep 17 04:33:21 give it a try - I don't know what WebOS Quick Install will do. Sep 17 04:33:26 we will find out Sep 17 04:33:28 worst case, uninstall then install. Sep 17 04:33:39 it just replaced it Sep 17 04:33:40 good things Sep 17 04:33:43 ok ill test it out Sep 17 04:33:52 what should i look for? got release notes? Sep 17 04:34:55 something up with preware right now? mine will not get past updating... Sep 17 04:35:21 can_: did you wait long enough before starting it? Sep 17 04:36:00 wait long enough after what? Sep 17 04:36:18 after installing ipkgservice, or rebooting, before starting Preware Sep 17 04:36:20 yeah, what is that about? Sep 17 04:36:36 it doesn't wait until it appears on the bus? Sep 17 04:36:38 yay akward noises coming from the bathroom Sep 17 04:36:39 lol Sep 17 04:36:47 hi guys Sep 17 04:36:59 is there a ipkgservice update as well rwhitby ? Sep 17 04:37:06 i installed it yesterday. just doesnt want to work right now Sep 17 04:37:07 hm. novacom failed to connect to server. :| Sep 17 04:37:48 sportman: ipkgservice is at 0.9.3 in the public feeds Sep 17 04:37:58 rwhitby: should i grab that as well then? Sep 17 04:38:22 yes, you should always run the latest from the public feeds Sep 17 04:39:06 Preware 0.9.0 is lookin good Sep 17 04:39:48 * sportman prays for some tweak to get evdo on roaming vzw Sep 17 04:39:50 gif images for bootscreens run a little slow Sep 17 04:39:54 that would be the ultimate tweak Sep 17 04:39:54 k4p741nkrunch: thx - anyone else? 3 testers for a major release ;-) Sep 17 04:39:56 But I'm sure it's the compression Sep 17 04:39:58 and it would make me truly happy Sep 17 04:40:15 ack. ok. didn't have the daemon running. didn't see any mention of that though. Sep 17 04:40:46 I'll tell you how the theming goes as soon as mine is uploaded Sep 17 04:43:21 rwhitby: wow this is a lot faster Sep 17 04:43:34 it used to hang for a bit when starting up Sep 17 04:43:36 its like instant now Sep 17 04:43:45 what version did you have installed? Sep 17 04:44:01 whatever was current on monday Sep 17 04:45:45 nvm its slow again Sep 17 04:45:49 i blame my 1x connection Sep 17 04:45:50 :( Sep 17 04:45:55 well yeah Sep 17 04:45:57 thats crap Sep 17 04:47:38 someone hack evdo on roaming :D Sep 17 04:47:47 lol, does anyone know if its a possibility? Sep 17 04:47:59 like i know u can on alltell towers but im consumed by vzw here Sep 17 04:48:27 the "how would you like to connect" step is just for dropbear right? Sep 17 04:48:38 is the theme section new? Sep 17 04:48:41 to tell it only to use wifi, or whatever. Sep 17 04:48:57 Damn, I'm uploading my theme to Prethemer and I realize there's no support for code, mainly adding a background to messaging Sep 17 04:49:00 rwhitby: the alpha test passes for me Sep 17 04:49:03 wors great Sep 17 04:49:06 *works great Sep 17 04:49:08 im off to bed Sep 17 04:49:10 night folks Sep 17 04:49:16 Night Sep 17 04:49:22 tomorrow i try again with accessing mysql from my new pre app Sep 17 04:49:25 * sportman will mostlikely fail Sep 17 04:49:26 but oh well Sep 17 04:49:33 php clicks for me :( this doesn't yet Sep 17 04:49:37 Anyone know of a way to alter messaging background with just an image file? Sep 17 04:49:41 ok, Preware 0.9.0 pushed to public feeds Sep 17 04:51:26 rwhitby Sep 17 04:51:35 Any clue why I can't reach webos-internals.org Sep 17 04:51:44 and my preware just sits there updating? Sep 17 04:52:33 Tilton53: it's working here. Sep 17 04:52:39 :/ Sep 17 04:53:03 was there an ip change recently? Sep 17 04:53:14 Tilton53: it was down for a while 12 hours ago Sep 17 04:53:15 Alright theme uploaded, should be ready in 5 minutes Sep 17 04:53:24 ah Sep 17 04:53:32 hm, it installs both dropbear and openssh ? Sep 17 04:53:42 that might be it Sep 17 04:53:45 openssh for sftp Sep 17 04:53:57 ah.. hm Sep 17 04:54:00 now I have to wait for the caches to expre :/ Sep 17 04:54:02 expire* Sep 17 04:54:14 Tilton53: DNS didn't change. Sep 17 04:54:17 or for it Sep 17 04:54:19 >.> Sep 17 04:54:21 force* Sep 17 04:54:41 it's a bad proxy that caches 404's Sep 17 04:54:53 Oh crap alt character didn't load Sep 17 04:55:19 Dammit I knew it, the Pre does support crossed O's I know it Sep 17 04:55:47 * rwhitby bbiab Sep 17 04:55:59 is quilt necessary if i'm just going to be using preware? Sep 17 04:56:05 That's better Sep 17 04:56:22 or does preware also have a way to uninstall all the patches before an update Sep 17 04:56:54 you open it up Sep 17 04:56:56 go to the patch Sep 17 04:56:58 and click remove Sep 17 04:57:14 Anyone wanna try out my theme :D Sep 17 04:57:18 hm. alright. Sep 17 04:57:19 for the one patch preware has in it Sep 17 04:57:25 quilt is quilt Sep 17 04:57:25 oh Sep 17 04:57:28 not connected to preware at all Sep 17 04:57:48 Is it weird my available patches is always grey? Sep 17 04:57:56 It used to have the keyboard in it Sep 17 04:57:58 no Sep 17 04:57:59 if you have the keyboard patch installed Sep 17 04:58:01 the no Sep 17 04:58:18 Even if you don't (and there seems to be no good way to install/uninstall)... Sep 17 04:58:27 It seems that patches aren't really supported yet. Sep 17 04:58:35 i guess i could always install quilt later if i need it. Sep 17 04:58:47 I believe that's targeted for the 1.0 release, but I heard that a while ago. Sep 17 04:58:56 hmm it said it was installed, but it wasn't working Sep 17 04:59:01 That's what was confusing me Sep 17 04:59:07 So I'm not the only one losing my mind trying to figure out why preware is behaving in crazy ways? Sep 17 04:59:08 uh Sep 17 04:59:08 Trying Quick Install to install it Sep 17 04:59:11 preware can remove patches... Sep 17 04:59:16 heisenman: patches suck Sep 17 04:59:22 heisenman: there will never be a good way to use them Sep 17 04:59:26 patches are a pita though Sep 17 04:59:36 Puff: Fair enough. Then preware shouldn't support them. Sep 17 04:59:37 What's not working heisenman Sep 17 04:59:38 heisenman: patches shouldnt even be allowed near preware Sep 17 04:59:48 patches are easy Sep 17 04:59:50 really really easy Sep 17 05:00:01 puff is just very opinionated on everything, feel free to ignore him Sep 17 05:00:05 xD Sep 17 05:00:05 puff: or, conversely, preware can support them BADLY, and then force developers to be smarter about their patch creation. Sep 17 05:00:05 egaudet: yeah if you make 1 patch and it dont touch a popular file Sep 17 05:00:14 I mean on the preware side patches are easy Sep 17 05:00:15 egaudet: try adding code to a file that other patches touch Sep 17 05:00:32 egaudet: yeah but patches having issues will give us a bad name Sep 17 05:00:40 not the dev to made the POS postinst Sep 17 05:00:49 or cant make a clean diff Sep 17 05:00:51 etc. Sep 17 05:00:51 Agreed, patching previously patched files gets you in a lot of trouble fast. Sep 17 05:01:09 Most patching utilities allow for "fail if this even smells fishy" though, right? Sep 17 05:01:10 PuffTheMagic, I can add code depending on the lines I'm touching :D Sep 17 05:01:26 PuffTheMagic, yea well it's easy to create a wrapper around patches and say screw postinst Sep 17 05:01:46 So just have preware be set on "so paranoid my mother is a sniper" mode, and make all of the error messages blame the patch dev. Sep 17 05:01:51 Dev supplies .patch and Type:patch Sep 17 05:02:11 egaudet: im not arguing with you any more about patches, yes they are easy from the individual dev pov, the are nightmare from the end user and patch managers Sep 17 05:02:13 damn it's not my internal proxy Sep 17 05:02:14 :/ Sep 17 05:02:16 preware or whatever can do a dry-run and then apply the patch :P Sep 17 05:02:28 so I now have to wait for the internet cache to expire the stupid 404 page Sep 17 05:02:29 -.- Sep 17 05:02:34 heisenman: preware patches run md5sum checks on all files before touching any Sep 17 05:02:39 PuffTheMagic, users would rather have a somewhat working patch management system than none at all Sep 17 05:02:43 Gotta be with egaudet here. Give the patch devs a TRY, but don't give them anything else. Sep 17 05:02:47 they would rather be able to install 4 of the 100 patches than 0 Sep 17 05:03:08 egaudet: i know users "want it"... it dont mean they are gonna get it Sep 17 05:03:15 * Tilton53 just cleared his network cache for no reason Sep 17 05:03:16 XD Sep 17 05:03:19 As an example, I've never gotten the keyboard patch working. But I'm glad I gave it a shot, and I'll try it again some other time. Sep 17 05:03:24 But it's EASY to supply a system that installs 4 out of 100 patches rather than 0 :D Sep 17 05:03:41 Right now almost every patch out would be able to install no problem Sep 17 05:03:51 Preware just does ipkgs with postinsts. the rest is up to the ipkg author. Sep 17 05:04:01 rwhitby, which I'm thinking is the wrong way now Sep 17 05:04:14 like puffs ledservice that doesn't uninstall Sep 17 05:04:22 Things can go wrong and be really hard to debug on the user's side Sep 17 05:04:24 egaudet: that's why we're only trialling with one, to work out the best way. Sep 17 05:04:32 yup Sep 17 05:04:43 I wish people would contribute to the discussion on precentral Sep 17 05:04:43 you can't learn if you don't try. Sep 17 05:04:51 but I think we are going to have to come up with a way BEFORE convincing others Sep 17 05:05:03 ok seriously though, the guy who made nodoze is a damn angel. Sep 17 05:05:10 Gotta donate to that guy. Sep 17 05:05:27 Jason is set on a method, preLoad guys say they have something in the works, we have our thoughts going around Sep 17 05:05:56 curious... Sep 17 05:05:56 egaudet: it's hard work to get consensus .... Sep 17 05:06:07 heisenman, what have you tried to get keyboard patch working? should just install with preware Sep 17 05:06:24 preware/all/Packages.gz and preware/armv7/Packages.gz seem to be failing http 404 error Sep 17 05:06:36 rwhitby, yea I know but you are good at that :D Sep 17 05:06:40 heisenman: no such feed any more. what wiki page references that? Sep 17 05:06:45 Is there a new way to open the keyboard in 1.9 Sep 17 05:06:48 egaudet: I tried to install the keyboard using quilt by hand a long time ago, and may have even tried to manually edit filess. Sep 17 05:06:50 It won't open for me Sep 17 05:06:51 heisenman: s/preware/webos-internals/g Sep 17 05:07:06 rwhitby: I'm updating ipkgservice right now, maybe it'll deprecate them. Sep 17 05:07:25 heisenman: it will install correct webosinternals ones. Sep 17 05:07:31 egaudet: At this point, those relevant files are probably completely horked. I'll wait for the 1.2 transition and try a saner upgrade. Sep 17 05:07:32 it doesn't touch manually created files. Sep 17 05:07:46 heisenman, there are 2 files that need to be pristine 1.1.0 Sep 17 05:07:51 that you can get from doctor easily Sep 17 05:08:04 heisenman: if you have the webosinternals feed there, feel free to just delete the preware.conf file Sep 17 05:08:12 '/usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/builtins/palmInitFramework191_15.js Sep 17 05:08:14 and Sep 17 05:08:19 so what is gained from using ipkg at all for patches? Sep 17 05:08:22 I'm having the same issue as before, I install the keyboard but nothing works Sep 17 05:08:33 '/usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/submissions/191.15/stylesheets/global.css Sep 17 05:08:39 tmzt: distribution, and known installation process. Sep 17 05:08:50 tmzt: and automatic updating. Sep 17 05:09:01 right, but why do the files themselves have to be in the .ipk? Sep 17 05:09:08 egaudet: hm... Sep 17 05:09:13 no typos by aunt minnie when running quilt Sep 17 05:09:16 Anyone else on 1.9 keyboard Sep 17 05:09:23 tmzt: what files? Sep 17 05:09:31 the contents of the patch Sep 17 05:09:57 k4p741nkrunch, I am Sep 17 05:09:58 tmzt: if you didn't the patch and the install scripts would get out of sync Sep 17 05:10:03 I get distribution, but doesn't quilt prefer a git tree or am I confusing it with something? Sep 17 05:10:05 egaudet: i will agree that patches in small numbers will probably be harmless Sep 17 05:10:14 I can't get it to open Sep 17 05:10:17 right now they're in really small numberws Sep 17 05:10:18 tmzt: quilt and git are completely orthogonal Sep 17 05:10:22 Still doubletap gesture? Sep 17 05:10:33 egaudet: im used to messing with the -mm patchset for the linux kernel which has 100-1000's of patches Sep 17 05:10:35 Mind you I do not have quilt installed Sep 17 05:10:39 rwhitby: that's my favorite word we didn't learing in school Sep 17 05:11:06 tmzt: you need a better school ;-) Sep 17 05:11:35 rwhitby: I think the category field on theme should match the category chosen on Prethemer, what do you think Sep 17 05:11:53 k4p741nkrunch: chat to AnOutsider|Sleep - it's his script on the site which controls that Sep 17 05:12:09 Alright np Sep 17 05:12:10 yea PuffTheMagic I wouldn't want to touch that many patches either lol Sep 17 05:12:10 yea still double tap Sep 17 05:12:10 while cursor in text field Sep 17 05:12:29 hmmm preware is spinning at installing when i try to install keyboard 0.1.9 Sep 17 05:12:34 id say just the most useful ones Sep 17 05:12:38 The animated gif seems to really lag out the scrolling on theme pages Sep 17 05:12:48 k4p741nkrunch: yeah, those gifs need to be cut Sep 17 05:12:56 but thats a feed manager thing Sep 17 05:12:58 and i think hes gone now Sep 17 05:13:05 I think it's the resizing Sep 17 05:13:17 i think its the animation Sep 17 05:13:34 Well does his server do the resizing of the image or is it Preware Sep 17 05:13:35 themes, eh? Sep 17 05:13:37 interesting. Sep 17 05:13:49 Because resizing a gif has always been hefty Sep 17 05:13:54 egaudet: its downloading? Sep 17 05:14:15 I clicked OK to run postinst Sep 17 05:14:36 huh Sep 17 05:14:44 so, postinst problem Sep 17 05:14:51 don't think so Sep 17 05:15:07 i mean if the service doesn't respond, preware doesnt know anything Sep 17 05:15:08 egaudet: can you do dbus-util --capture while installing? Sep 17 05:15:12 So is a target of the 1.0 preware release the ability to update preware/ipkgservice from within preware? Sep 17 05:15:23 heisenman: it can already do that in 0.9 Sep 17 05:15:26 Or has that already happened, and I've been pulling up a terminal for no reason... Sep 17 05:15:28 It must not have restarted luna correctly Sep 17 05:15:29 ah Sep 17 05:15:30 1.0 will add dependency support Sep 17 05:15:32 yeah, it does Sep 17 05:16:37 offline root mode, not running prerm Sep 17 05:16:39 ?? Sep 17 05:16:43 that's what ipkg log says Sep 17 05:17:23 since it has no reason to stop a running process Sep 17 05:17:33 uh Sep 17 05:17:34 egaudet: error installing [4] Sep 17 05:17:38 so -o will not work, rwhitby? Sep 17 05:17:45 is the error message when I try to reinstall. Sep 17 05:18:14 from preware? Sep 17 05:18:24 Yes. Sep 17 05:18:24 error installing 4 means the service returned a "failed" stage Sep 17 05:18:32 And when I restart preware, it lists the patch as being installed already. Sep 17 05:18:44 (that was me handing it to rwhitby) Sep 17 05:18:52 (So removing it doesn't "Remove" it, it seems) Sep 17 05:18:56 yea heisenman that needs to be addressed, the postinst really installs the patch, but the package gets installed regardless of postinst running Sep 17 05:19:16 you should be able to remove it OK Sep 17 05:19:41 I imagine overwriting those files you mentioned would help this, because I'm SURE I've done something terrible to some files somewhere. Sep 17 05:20:26 yea if you just get those 2 files from the 1.1.0 doctor and put them back (uninstall keyboard first) then you should be OK Sep 17 05:21:04 Still no damn keyboard for me!! WTF my pre hates the OSK Sep 17 05:21:11 i restarted LunaSysMgr myself and now things are good again Sep 17 05:21:24 k4p741nkrunch, you trying with preware and what keyboard version? Sep 17 05:21:26 any errors? Sep 17 05:21:34 double tap and WAIT Sep 17 05:21:37 don't triple tap Sep 17 05:21:44 I installed via WebOS quick install, no errors, version 1.9 Sep 17 05:21:51 I had previously not installed it Sep 17 05:21:57 Don't have quilt installed Sep 17 05:22:00 takes a couple seconds to render, open memos Sep 17 05:22:09 egaudet: the not running prerm is expected - that's why we run it manually Sep 17 05:22:19 tmzt: -o will not work for what? Sep 17 05:22:24 I've used it before, but I recently doctored and since then, no dice, even if I go through preware Sep 17 05:22:44 rwhitby: the error message said prerm not run as it's in offline mode Sep 17 05:23:00 tmzt: right, the -o causes that, and it's expected and intentional. Sep 17 05:23:05 ok Sep 17 05:23:09 what's the md5sum of your /usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/builtins/palmInitframework191_15.js Sep 17 05:23:19 so there can be no services in /var that need to be stopped? Sep 17 05:23:34 tmzt: we run the prerm first Sep 17 05:23:40 then run ipkg -o /var remove ... Sep 17 05:24:07 ok Sep 17 05:24:22 that's why we only support prerm and postinst, and not preinst and postrm. Sep 17 05:25:10 md5 = 0e5cbf40b9d2f9856600169cc690200e Sep 17 05:25:25 does ipkg not support multiple roots now like it did on the zaurus? Sep 17 05:26:23 heh Sep 17 05:26:32 webos doctor seems to be barfing. I can't dl the app Sep 17 05:27:03 k4p741nkrunch, that is the stock 1.1.0 file Sep 17 05:27:10 tmzt: it does, but palm uses ipkg -o /var Sep 17 05:27:18 after you install with preware .9, it still has that md5sum? Sep 17 05:27:58 Hmm, I downloaded the ipk from webos-internals test feed and installed via Quick Install Sep 17 05:28:36 rwhitby: and where/why do they use that? Sep 17 05:28:47 they install their apps in /var? Sep 17 05:28:57 tmzt: cause they want to keep downloaded stuff separate from OTA update rootfs stuff. Sep 17 05:29:06 also, they are installing static apps if I understand it, nothing with native code or services Sep 17 05:29:20 so they would never have the issue Sep 17 05:29:26 correct Sep 17 05:29:34 in either case, you have written a a wrapper to ipkg with it's own behaivor Sep 17 05:29:46 but done in discrete steps (in the instructions) Sep 17 05:29:57 effectively, yes Sep 17 05:30:02 or in a concrete/monolithic service Sep 17 05:30:16 hmm luna actually restarted this time, it might actually install Sep 17 05:30:24 it also allows us to show the script to the user and get secure informed consent to run it, a key part of the overall security regime Sep 17 05:30:27 k4p741nkrunch, good sign Sep 17 05:30:39 where do they see the script? Sep 17 05:30:53 I would rather see a descriptive (as in, not code) version of the script Sep 17 05:31:14 I would actually rather packages use #!/bin/sh only where absolutely neccessary Sep 17 05:31:23 and debian/ubuntu is getting there with it's triggers Sep 17 05:31:47 Ooooh thats a bug Sep 17 05:31:50 tmzt: you've never hit the "View" button before hitting "OK" ? Sep 17 05:32:06 by the way, by description I don't mean text description for the user Sep 17 05:32:09 tmzt: yep, all that can be transitioned to later. Sep 17 05:32:16 but a list of Restart-service: service-name Sep 17 05:32:17 etc. Sep 17 05:32:34 try opening universal search if you have OSK 1.9, then tap gesture to close the keyboard, now open and close launcher Sep 17 05:32:37 View? in what context? Sep 17 05:32:55 tmzt: you've never installed a service or patch or plugin with Preware? Sep 17 05:33:15 I've never used preware at all Sep 17 05:33:33 ah, well you're not the target audience for the view button then :-) Sep 17 05:33:46 and who is? what do they see? Sep 17 05:33:53 do they understand it? Sep 17 05:34:09 I'm all for increasing general knowledge, but that must come with comprehension Sep 17 05:34:47 k4p741nkrunch, say that again? Sep 17 05:36:04 telstra is getting split up, eh? Sep 17 05:36:08 With 1.9 Sep 17 05:36:12 Is this a good or bad thing for palm? Sep 17 05:36:24 If you open up a universal search by hitting a key on the keyboard Sep 17 05:36:31 yea Sep 17 05:36:39 then double tap the gesture area to bring up the OSK Sep 17 05:36:44 then hit a couple buttons Sep 17 05:36:54 Tap the gesture area to close it, then open launcher Sep 17 05:37:19 open launcher with up swipe? Sep 17 05:37:20 My OSK slides up WITH the launcher, causing it to lag, and opening and closing the launcher hides and unhides the keyboard Sep 17 05:37:28 with button is what I did Sep 17 05:37:34 oh yo uhit the drag button Sep 17 05:37:59 (bottom left key on default theme is drag button) Sep 17 05:38:02 And now I'm having the issue with it not keeping theme change Sep 17 05:38:29 hit bottom right blank key and change to LPC theme (need 0.1.10 for that) to see upcoming default theme Sep 17 05:38:34 Yeah it's extremely annoying to have it on the launcher, now it wont go away Sep 17 05:38:41 Yeah I love that theme, but it won't stay Sep 17 05:38:41 rwhitby: http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/200660-preware-33.html#post1899439 Sep 17 05:39:13 k4p741nkrunch, how do you bring up launcher and keep keyboard? Sep 17 05:39:31 OHH i see Sep 17 05:39:31 It won't go away! Sep 17 05:39:34 it's attached Sep 17 05:39:35 hehehe Sep 17 05:39:45 drag the keyboard Sep 17 05:39:47 I can't use the launcher Sep 17 05:39:52 and then tap the gesture to remove it Sep 17 05:40:10 it's locked in drag-mode so it is waiting for a drag-start Sep 17 05:40:39 Eh I'm hoping good old reboot fixes her Sep 17 05:40:54 shouldn't be a need Sep 17 05:41:10 90% of the way through reboot already Sep 17 05:41:16 but yea theme always opens as default theme (which is that ice theme for now) Sep 17 05:41:56 The ability to remember your theme and have a user app for theme selection and preferences etc... will come in the future Sep 17 05:43:15 Can't I just ssh in and rename the folders for now Sep 17 05:45:35 anyone here a developer using Linux? Sep 17 05:45:47 anyone not? Sep 17 05:46:01 me Sep 17 05:46:06 Ahh got default theme to work Sep 17 05:46:15 heisenman: what os does your Pre run now? Sep 17 05:46:18 Switched it in keyboard-config.json Sep 17 05:46:23 He said developer, right? Sep 17 05:46:29 ah Sep 17 05:46:30 But for haptic I think it's not boolean Sep 17 05:46:47 dtom2444_: what's the question? Sep 17 05:46:58 i've been "programming" basic/html for years now and was wondering what are the best programs to use for Pre development on Linux? Sep 17 05:47:20 palm recommends eclipse Sep 17 05:47:23 well you can program basic Sep 17 05:47:26 for any platform. Sep 17 05:47:28 oil: answered it Sep 17 05:47:48 it's unclear whether authoring html is programming Sep 17 05:47:50 there is another one about errors Sep 17 05:48:03 i can tell you that error installing 4 is because the service returns a stage of "failed" Sep 17 05:48:18 tmzt: hence the ""quotes, lol Sep 17 05:48:47 k4p741nkrunch, no haptic is ms Sep 17 05:48:50 set it to 50 Sep 17 05:48:50 dtom2444_: sorry though, you mean development with html api? Sep 17 05:48:52 50 is good Sep 17 05:49:01 that's discussed in #webos I believe Sep 17 05:49:02 100 is max and might make things lag Sep 17 05:49:23 so is it mostly javascript when it comes to the webOS? Sep 17 05:49:25 tmzt: at the moment, the view button displays the full #!/bin/sh script in all it's geekness. Sep 17 05:49:41 bug with keyboard Sep 17 05:49:51 heisenman: telstra split is orthogonal to Palm phones on Telstra. Sep 17 05:50:22 Selected drag button quickly a couple times in a row, now it's frozen in drag mode Sep 17 05:51:14 k4p741nkrunch, you can drag multiple times? Sep 17 05:51:25 drag release, drag release etc... Sep 17 05:52:08 NVM just realized how it works Sep 17 05:52:15 Thats a feature, not a bug Sep 17 05:52:27 But you should make it so you can tap the drag icon again to remove it Sep 17 05:52:37 Because I accidentally hit it going for backspace a ton Sep 17 05:54:12 Oh and BTW exxxxcellent job on that theme Sep 17 05:54:37 that's un_designer's work Sep 17 05:54:48 I just handle the code :P Sep 17 05:57:12 BTW I found 40 MS to be the perfect value for haptic Sep 17 05:58:04 50 made it seem slow, and the sound it made was horrendous Sep 17 05:58:27 40 is just enough to make it known you hit the key, it makes a very slight click noise, and it runs super smooth Sep 17 05:59:15 BTW tried theming on Preware, exxxcellent Sep 17 06:00:27 rwhitby: something we need to be thinking about fixing before 1.0 Sep 17 06:00:33 is timeouts on updating Sep 17 06:00:43 if a feed is down, preware is completely unusable Sep 17 06:00:43 is rooting required in order to install preware? Sep 17 06:00:48 dtom2444_: no Sep 17 06:01:32 then is Preware available on Precentral or in the wiki? Sep 17 06:03:36 get webosquick install Sep 17 06:03:41 its in there Sep 17 06:04:30 k4p741nkrunch, so 40 feels good? Sep 17 06:04:44 40 feels prime Sep 17 06:05:05 It's slight, but the point of haptic is for your to know you touched it, and it does just that Sep 17 06:07:17 OK so i get what that annoying launcher bug thing is now Sep 17 06:07:19 Preware is in Quick Install? Isn't the ipk required? Sep 17 06:07:39 you get hte ipk from within quick install Sep 17 06:07:51 you have to use quick install to install the package manager service Sep 17 06:07:54 dtom2444_: preware & the package manager service are both install-able through Quick Install Sep 17 06:07:55 global search is part of launcher app, if you open keyboard in gs and then open launcher the keyboard is still there Sep 17 06:07:59 will have to fix that Sep 17 06:08:13 workaround is to open global search and again and tap gesture to remove it Sep 17 06:10:18 Or panic and reboot Sep 17 06:10:19 :p Sep 17 06:10:39 or open luna manager and restart luna? Sep 17 06:10:40 xD Sep 17 06:10:56 Oh yeah! Sep 17 06:11:17 :D Sep 17 06:11:42 rick_home: are you around? Sep 17 06:12:21 oil: yep, timeouts on updating must be in 1.0 - can it be done in the javascript, so it handles both ipkg network hangs and also service not being up? Sep 17 06:12:25 ok well it's bed time Sep 17 06:13:04 i dont think it can for updates Sep 17 06:13:22 it has to be per-feed Sep 17 06:13:25 dtom2444_: just follow the instructions at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware Sep 17 06:13:38 and update is just called as it is Sep 17 06:14:15 oil: can you put a timeout around the call to update? Sep 17 06:14:33 (in fact, we should have a timeout around all services calls probably) Sep 17 06:14:38 oil: are you familure with the NeoPwn software? Sep 17 06:14:50 daybreak1199: I am. Sep 17 06:14:59 its pretty involved adding timeouts to them Sep 17 06:15:09 and i dont know if i can cancel a request that isn't a subscription Sep 17 06:15:13 problem is Sep 17 06:15:17 that every other feed may work Sep 17 06:15:18 but one fails Sep 17 06:15:23 and the service never responds Sep 17 06:15:29 simply canceling it isn't a good solution Sep 17 06:15:31 it should skip that feed Sep 17 06:15:34 on the service side Sep 17 06:15:53 oil: yeah, trouble is the call to ipkg update is not per-service :-( Sep 17 06:15:59 per-feed :-( Sep 17 06:16:07 ipkg doesn't have timeouts on feeds? Sep 17 06:16:12 seems like quite the oversight Sep 17 06:16:22 rwhitby: is neopwn able to run on the pre..like a dual boot os...neopwn option or regular pre os Sep 17 06:16:28 oil: it uses wget, which should have a timeout. But it's pretty long. Sep 17 06:16:43 daybreak1199: nope. not as is. Sep 17 06:16:51 but lets say one site goes down Sep 17 06:16:52 like prethemer Sep 17 06:16:59 (whos serer seems pretty slow) Sep 17 06:17:03 oil: fully agree we need per-feed timeouts Sep 17 06:17:05 preware is unusable Sep 17 06:17:22 oil: I'll look into what can be done with ipkg Sep 17 06:17:54 oil: note that if you cancel the update, you should still be able to get the current lists, and feeds before the hanging one will have been updated, and the hanging one should just have previous contents. Sep 17 06:18:10 (since we no longer call ipkg to get the lists) Sep 17 06:18:14 right Sep 17 06:18:53 like i said though Sep 17 06:18:59 i dont know if canceling the request is enough Sep 17 06:19:08 when webos-internals site was down Sep 17 06:19:13 it would stick at updating Sep 17 06:19:17 then if you restarted preware Sep 17 06:19:24 essentially killing all the current requests Sep 17 06:19:32 it would get stuck at the first request to the service, checking the version Sep 17 06:19:34 it would never respond Sep 17 06:19:50 so even if the timeout kills it and moves on to the lists Sep 17 06:19:56 it would just get stuck on the lists Sep 17 06:20:48 I've had that happen to me actually Sep 17 06:20:56 Had to uninstall and reinstall Sep 17 06:20:56 yeah Sep 17 06:21:00 well Sep 17 06:21:03 you could have just rebooted Sep 17 06:21:06 Probably not Sep 17 06:21:07 haha Sep 17 06:21:18 I have this thing against rebooting.. Sep 17 06:21:38 i love rebooting Sep 17 06:21:51 its more snappy after a fresh boot Sep 17 06:22:16 i do it once every couple of days Sep 17 06:22:18 lol windows Sep 17 06:22:22 I used to have to all the time when I CPU scaled, java service would hang. But now It's super snappy Sep 17 06:22:29 i get alot done while rebooting...clean the house..feed the boy..check the mail...come back and the phone is still rebooting Sep 17 06:22:34 puff: that was me talking about the pre Sep 17 06:22:39 i never restart my windows xp machine Sep 17 06:22:42 I never reboot my Windows Sep 17 06:22:43 oil: oh Sep 17 06:22:55 my windows machine only is restarted Sep 17 06:22:57 when it crashes Sep 17 06:22:58 It's XP but I run LiteStep as a shell, waaay more stable than explorer Sep 17 06:23:01 or the power goes out Sep 17 06:24:08 oil thank you for adding Palm Dark btw Sep 17 06:24:13 j00r my h3r0 Sep 17 06:24:20 puff hates it Sep 17 06:24:36 it looks ghetto Sep 17 06:24:40 Makes Preware the sexy SOB I always envisioned Sep 17 06:24:46 lol Sep 17 06:24:56 PuffTheMagic sounds ghetto Sep 17 06:25:05 hahaha Sep 17 06:25:17 preware need a new logo for when in dark mode Sep 17 06:25:27 get templarian on it Sep 17 06:25:28 Like Tux holdin a glock Sep 17 06:25:29 it looks like poop with the dark logo Sep 17 06:25:36 tux in a black box Sep 17 06:25:41 Ooooh hell yes Sep 17 06:25:44 lol Sep 17 06:25:53 My carrier string is "the black box" Sep 17 06:26:10 my carrier string is Sep 17 06:26:12 my carrier Sep 17 06:26:25 how oil of you Sep 17 06:26:32 lol Sep 17 06:27:11 are deps working in preware/ipkgservice yet? Sep 17 06:28:15 nope Sep 17 06:28:52 rwhitby: what the blocker on that? Sep 17 06:29:02 no blockers. Sep 17 06:29:10 so why cant it do it yet? Sep 17 06:29:24 seems like that should have been one of the frirst features Sep 17 06:29:25 well, i would have done it today, but i was busy on that monitor app Sep 17 06:29:28 because time is not elastic I expect. Sep 17 06:29:46 it wasnt the first thing Sep 17 06:29:49 because it couldnt have been Sep 17 06:30:01 there were many other things that had to happen first Sep 17 06:30:10 which i'm sure have been explained before Sep 17 06:30:27 oil: if you get deps in there, i can make and ipkg for libSDL 1.2 and DirectFB 1.2 and FCEUX 2.1.1 :D Sep 17 06:30:47 nothing is stoping you from adding them right now Sep 17 06:30:47 oil you're working on a monitor app? Sep 17 06:31:21 k4p741nkrunch: hes making a gui for the service i just made Sep 17 06:31:54 oil is a non-renewable resource ... Sep 17 06:31:56 Yeah I already have it installed in anticipation Sep 17 06:32:04 and Sep 17 06:32:06 lol Sep 17 06:32:15 ive done nothing of what i was supposed to get done today for a client Sep 17 06:32:29 Just downloaded your Luna Manager oil Sep 17 06:32:37 oil: amen family > work > hobby Sep 17 06:32:48 oil: i didnt ask you to add it, i just said if you did i could use it :D Sep 17 06:32:51 Annnnd can't open the app menu Sep 17 06:33:01 there is nothing in the app menu Sep 17 06:33:10 the app is 3 buttons Sep 17 06:33:11 and some text Sep 17 06:33:13 and thats it Sep 17 06:33:14 Looking for the version Sep 17 06:33:23 if you just downloaded it Sep 17 06:33:25 oil: too simple ;-) Sep 17 06:33:25 you have the current version Sep 17 06:33:29 From preware Sep 17 06:33:37 I saw a 0.0.2 on the test site Sep 17 06:34:04 Alright it's 0.0.2 thank ya preware Sep 17 06:44:46 alright night folx Sep 17 06:56:59 ohla Sep 17 06:57:53 so when installing a theme and then another theme... it looks like it installs it over the first theme and preware still thinks the first theme is installed at the same time. there is no reapply button to go back to the last theme you bassically have to remove it then reinstall it Sep 17 06:59:02 oooh Sep 17 06:59:18 sounds like i can put themes in the same boat as patches :D Sep 17 06:59:34 ya looks that way Sep 17 07:00:02 i cant wait for 1.2 so i can webos my pre Sep 17 07:00:02 if you remove one theme then you will have no theme although the preware shows that the other theme is still installed Sep 17 07:00:46 so to apply that "installed" theme you must remove it goes through the remove process to remove the theme that is not there before you can install it again and go through the whole isntall process again Sep 17 07:00:49 http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/supported_features.png Sep 17 07:02:39 i wodner when installing a new theme if preware can check to see if its the stock theme or not.. if not go through remove process in the script the isntall the new theme running the script.. if you can make a if then in the code... so isntead of restarting luna twice it will jsut do it once Sep 17 07:03:08 sorry puff by saying you i dont mean you but just in general for whoever has been doing the themes i guess Sep 17 07:03:20 im not much of a programmer sadly Sep 17 07:04:29 there will have to be a check that prevents more than 1 theme being installed Sep 17 07:05:14 well rather then prevent from isntalling a new theme if the check can go through process of unisntalling the last theme before installing the new one Sep 17 07:05:39 right now it just keeps overwriting eachother and preware continues to think that the overwritten theme is still isntalled Sep 17 07:07:25 anyway... the linux theme is my fave Sep 17 07:11:59 hum it will not let me edit known bugs on the wiki Sep 17 07:12:51 PuffTheMagic, when you writing a patch service :P Sep 17 07:13:40 rwhitby, ping Sep 17 07:14:27 egaudet|sleep: syn|ack + magic packet to wake you up .... Sep 17 07:14:59 lol Sep 17 07:14:59 PuffTheMagic, is that a possibility? Sep 17 07:15:15 rwhitby, i tried editing known bugs for preware no luck Sep 17 07:15:29 how opposed would you be to removing postinst ability from patches as packages and putting the burden on a service/app tandem Sep 17 07:16:07 egaudet|sleep: I'm ambivalent :-) Sep 17 07:17:03 We just need a comprehensive complete workflow for patches that includes the developers, upgrades to webOS, distribution, upgrades of patches, removal, etc. Let's work out the process first, then worry about the implementation. Sep 17 07:17:53 certain aspects of the process require small implementation details. For instance, the developers workflow changes based on how we want to package them Sep 17 07:18:02 egaudet|sleep: agreed. Sep 17 07:18:05 but I have thought about the following workflow Sep 17 07:18:46 egaudet|sleep: the one thing about patches that I have a firm opinion on is that they should be distributed as normal patch files. Sep 17 07:18:56 an open standard interchange format. Sep 17 07:19:03 developer creates .patch, developer packages as ipkg however they want with nothing but the .patch in the app_dir, installation/application of patches is then split into 2 distinct ideas Sep 17 07:19:25 the installation of a patch is done through your favorite installer (preware) Sep 17 07:19:37 egaudet|sleep: ah, so separate installation and application. sure. Sep 17 07:20:18 then "applying" a patch is done through another gui (could be preware) Sep 17 07:20:35 egaudet|sleep: the current postinst could even check for the existence of such an app and leave it to the app if it exists, give us a smooth transition path. Sep 17 07:21:05 what postinst? Sep 17 07:21:12 I'm suggesting no postinst Sep 17 07:21:40 ok, so patches then depend on the patch application app? Sep 17 07:21:50 we can do that. Sep 17 07:22:01 installation of patches depend on existing ipk framework Sep 17 07:22:13 APPLYING the patches will depend on new or extended service/app tandem Sep 17 07:22:34 the service/app tandem could be separate or integrated into ipkgservice/preware Sep 17 07:22:35 egaudet: right, and the Launch button in Preware can utilize that service Sep 17 07:22:47 (and be called Apply for patches) Sep 17 07:22:54 yep Sep 17 07:23:27 egaudet: so known conflicts between patches are handled by the normal ipkg Conflicts: support? Sep 17 07:23:37 nope Sep 17 07:23:44 you can install 5 patches that conflict Sep 17 07:23:47 but you can only apply one Sep 17 07:24:16 this opens the door for preferential choice of patches as well, for example 4x5 vs. 5x5 launcher icons Sep 17 07:24:55 The very first time a package is patched, the md5sums should be checked and backups saved Sep 17 07:25:09 Allowing the option of "restore package" in case of unforeseen errors/bugs Sep 17 07:25:45 patches will need to be separated by package and at least for now no multi-package patches Sep 17 07:29:14 egaudet: sounds like a plan Sep 17 07:32:41 how much information can ipkg give us Sep 17 07:36:00 The details of handling multiple patches in a package will be the tricky part, but at the least we can start by supporting 1-patch per package applied at a time Sep 17 07:38:46 ok there's food for thought, now i'm really going to bed Sep 17 07:52:13 Nice new changes fellas Sep 17 07:53:27 hey I know you guys were playing with getting nes or snes working before Sep 17 07:53:28 themes are cool in Preware. It did something to switcharoo though so I rebooted, well also removed/reinstalled swtcharoo, and everything seems ok. Sep 17 07:53:35 but a full javascript snes port has been done Sep 17 07:53:42 might be easier to port over Sep 17 07:53:43 http://benfirshman.com/projects/jsnes/ Sep 17 07:54:43 punzada: so any webos developer can do that without needing -internals stuff? Sep 17 07:56:08 idk, i just stumbled upon it on my rss feeds Sep 17 07:56:12 rwhitby: which config needs to be removed from the old preware feed? Sep 17 07:56:13 figure it might help out someone Sep 17 07:56:26 the source is all available on his github Sep 17 07:56:31 Eguy: /var/etc/ipkg/preware.conf (if it exists) Sep 17 07:56:48 Yeah, I think that is it...Thanks. Sep 17 07:57:20 maybe I should release a new ipkgservice which deletes that file. Sep 17 07:57:39 one of these days I am going to really screw up either the Pre or xubuntu by issuing the commands in the wrong Terminal, heh. Sep 17 07:57:46 that could be the cause of some hangs I guess. Sep 17 07:57:55 lol hmagoo I've figured I may do something like that myself one day Sep 17 07:58:05 hmm - no, it should error out pretty quickly on missing feeds. Sep 17 07:58:18 it'll get a 404 straight away Sep 17 07:58:47 I thought I was locked out of the Pre once.. heh Sep 17 07:59:33 hmagoo, i edited my bash.rc so that when i'm sshed into my pre it changes the background color Sep 17 08:00:02 first off, i wonder how it loads roms Sep 17 08:00:08 secondly, it looks like it uses the canvas tag Sep 17 08:00:16 canvas tag support is crap in webos Sep 17 08:00:46 hopefully one of the upcoming builds of webos will fully support html5 Sep 17 08:00:48 is it ok to delete /var/etc/ipkg/preware.conf on the Pre? Sep 17 08:01:02 i'm primarily looking forward to the /sarcasm tag Sep 17 08:01:25 oil: speed support is also crap in webos Sep 17 08:01:46 best bet for emulators before palm releases a native sdk? Sep 17 08:01:54 directfb Sep 17 08:03:02 is it sad that i want to get an hd projector, not for watching movies, but for displaying a giant dashboard of sorts on my wall? Sep 17 08:03:14 no Sep 17 08:03:16 No Sep 17 08:03:36 good, some of you are as geeky as i am Sep 17 08:03:42 some? Sep 17 08:04:00 your in a chatroom talking about the linux base of a cell phone operating system ;) Sep 17 08:04:08 well i consider myself an alpha geek, i outgeek any geek i know in person Sep 17 08:04:35 yeah, but how many in here are building their own satellite so they can launch a server into space? :p Sep 17 08:04:50 pfft, I did that years ago Sep 17 08:05:06 i dont have the motivation required for something like that Sep 17 08:05:23 and, i also don't know any geeks in person Sep 17 08:05:34 they're all alcoholics, thats what they're good at Sep 17 08:05:59 i know a bunch, mostly cause my social life consists of meetings and events Sep 17 08:06:10 i'm welsh, i'll never be an alcoholic Sep 17 08:07:00 hmagoo: yes, you can delete that file Sep 17 08:08:21 k Sep 17 08:08:47 * rwhitby is surprised that http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-wallpapers/ doesn't have a Preware post in it yet :-) Sep 17 08:09:04 brb Sep 17 08:11:24 back Sep 17 08:15:51 rwhitby: its only been a couple hours... Sep 17 08:16:41 what version of preware are we on now? Sep 17 08:17:00 oil: we haven't done a 0.9.0 post in the thread yet, have we? did you update the first post? Sep 17 08:17:12 acydlord: 0.9.0 public beta Sep 17 08:18:07 hmm, perhaps i need to update then Sep 17 08:18:28 oil: ah, I see you've updated the first post - nice one. Sep 17 08:20:03 is there still a terminal installable preware option? Sep 17 08:21:10 yes Sep 17 08:21:18 it's on the wiki Sep 17 08:22:44 http://twitter.com/webosinternals/status/4050144378 Sep 17 08:22:56 http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/09/16/hacker-snow-leopard-less-secure-than-windows Sep 17 08:23:03 interesting Sep 17 08:23:35 rwhitby: do we need to install the themer app to use themes? Sep 17 08:24:32 hmm, i'm getting an error from ipkg.preware.org when i try to ipkg -o /var update Sep 17 08:24:39 * rwhitby wonders what snow leopard and windows security has to do with webos-internals, other than being a reason for people to engage in mindless OS comparison discussions. Sep 17 08:24:52 Eguy: what themer app? Sep 17 08:25:07 acydlord: remove the obsolete /var/etc/ipkg/preware.conf file Sep 17 08:25:09 acylord: do you still have the preware.conf? Sep 17 08:25:18 rwhitby, will do Sep 17 08:25:25 do i need to change the repo? Sep 17 08:25:27 ahhh I lost Sep 17 08:25:42 I thought there was an app that was needed to use those themes Sep 17 08:25:43 acydlord: ipkgservice will install all the feeds you need ;-) Sep 17 08:25:49 just make sure you run the postinst Sep 17 08:26:12 acydlord: oh, you might have a chicken and egg there. Sep 17 08:26:37 acydlord: s/preware/webos-internals/ to find the new name for that feed (new since ipkgservice 0.7.7 I think) Sep 17 08:27:12 i'm running 0.8.5 Sep 17 08:28:01 palm pre native apps allow use of right? Sep 17 08:28:12 because in browser in 1.1 it doesnt seem to work Sep 17 08:31:21 acydlord: just deleting the obsolete file should be fine then Sep 17 08:32:03 k, i deleted the obsolete file, did update then upgrade and it didnt give me any upgrade Sep 17 08:32:17 so i just removed preware and remove -force-depends ipkgservice Sep 17 08:32:26 gonna reboot and throw them on there clean Sep 17 08:47:24 i still need to download the 1.2 leak to update my clean timestamp patch Sep 17 08:47:29 my preware didn't update either.... I had to update to 0.9 manually Sep 17 08:48:25 this is actually gonna be my first time using webos quick install Sep 17 08:48:30 cause im too lazy to add the repos back in lol Sep 17 08:48:38 It's pretty darn good Sep 17 08:48:47 I wish you didn't need the pre in dev mode though Sep 17 08:49:03 ditto Sep 17 08:49:46 well actually Sep 17 08:49:59 if the pre didn't take 10 hours to reboot it would be ok ;) Sep 17 08:50:51 kicking ass in word ace tonight ;/ Sep 17 08:51:11 even the pre emulator takes forever Sep 17 08:51:26 takes about twice as long as my n810 took to reboot Sep 17 08:51:58 700p was very quick, centro got slower, Pre takes eternity Sep 17 08:54:00 hopefully the pixi wont be even slowe Sep 17 08:56:10 i wish i had checked the forums earlier, one of my friends just brought her pre over tonight for her weekly update and tweak Sep 17 08:56:24 so she's stuck with 0.8.5 till next time lol Sep 17 08:57:17 she can't click update under preware? lol Sep 17 08:57:56 it doesnt update to 0.9.0 and preware still doesnt update all the terminal stuff Sep 17 08:57:57 she's a tard Sep 17 08:58:07 lol Sep 17 08:58:14 I'm sure she would appreciate that Sep 17 08:58:37 but once she gets 090, preware will update itself Sep 17 08:58:55 lol, everyone i know in person knows i'm an elitest a*hole so it's all good Sep 17 08:59:04 hahaha Sep 17 08:59:19 ooh, 217 packages available now Sep 17 08:59:30 acydlord: install the terminal, then use it to update her Pre Sep 17 08:59:59 assert your geek superiority! Sep 17 09:00:06 rwhitby, i already did Sep 17 09:00:23 i installed whatsmyip too cause i had to do some patches while she was out of state Sep 17 09:00:49 her pre was the guihnnea pig for testing to see if message forwarding would apply after my messaging patch Sep 17 09:00:54 is there a reason I don't have rights to do anything over ssh? Sep 17 09:01:01 I always get access denied Sep 17 09:01:27 do you elevate permisions? Sep 17 09:01:29 there's a special test for "if ($user == "egay") then ...." ... Sep 17 09:01:42 lol Sep 17 09:01:47 I figured that Sep 17 09:02:16 if it still happens when you change your username, then check if you're running sudo and have a writeable rootfs. Sep 17 09:02:34 you need to sudo to do anything under ssh? Sep 17 09:02:35 my ssh services mucked up at one point Sep 17 09:02:52 dropbear and openssh were running over the top of eachother Sep 17 09:03:05 when i ssh into my pre the first command i pass is sudo -i Sep 17 09:03:13 acydlord: installed with ipkg-opt or preware? Sep 17 09:03:25 rwhitby, ipkg-opt Sep 17 09:03:29 ah yes, as long as you sudo it works Sep 17 09:03:45 acydlord: did you install both upstart scripts or just one? Sep 17 09:03:55 just one Sep 17 09:04:09 only one daemon should have been running then Sep 17 09:04:14 i think i wasnt paying attention when i set up sftp and wound up installing openssh over dropbear Sep 17 09:04:36 right now i'm just using openssh so i can have the rsa Sep 17 09:05:24 and my pre is currently logged into arpanet via sdf Sep 17 09:05:58 acydlord: both dropbear and openssh can do rsa Sep 17 09:06:23 we've even got wiki pages for the Preware versions now to. Sep 17 09:06:35 i think i did ssh cause dropbear gave me problems access git via putty Sep 17 09:07:01 but i've since developed the habit of only using putty when i need to do extensive edits Sep 17 09:08:09 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Removing_app_install_limit_in_App_Catalog This is my favorite page on the wiki right now Sep 17 09:09:57 everyone knows all you have to do is divide by zero Sep 17 09:12:28 Eguy, thats rather interesting Sep 17 09:12:53 i always thought the limitation was due to the small /var size Sep 17 09:13:02 Negative Sep 17 09:13:39 I think they put it on there just to have before they had a bunch of apps, It better be removed after the 24th Sep 17 09:13:49 hmm Sep 17 09:14:08 And on that note I am hitting the hay Sep 17 09:14:11 yeah, cant have people buying apps and then it going all gestapo on them on install Sep 17 09:14:19 i'm hitting the hay here soon Sep 17 09:14:30 I can't even update apps let alone install new ones Sep 17 09:14:53 \my preware did not found ipkgservice update Sep 17 09:15:04 and preware too even if I had just updated my feeds Sep 17 09:15:13 but from terminal ipkg -o /var upgrade worked fine Sep 17 09:15:15 hmm Sep 17 09:15:37 oil broke it Sep 17 09:15:45 i'm serious Sep 17 09:15:56 so is he Sep 17 09:16:07 lol Sep 17 09:16:15 I had the same problem with preware from 085 I had to update from within preware to 090 Sep 17 09:16:21 CLI didn't work Sep 17 09:16:27 0.8.7 to 0.9.0 Sep 17 09:16:33 on my side Sep 17 09:16:48 I am talking preware not the service Sep 17 09:17:01 i had 0.8.7 preware Sep 17 09:17:25 oh Sep 17 09:17:30 testing release Sep 17 09:17:45 ah yes! a rss reader homebrew app Sep 17 09:17:54 yap finally i was waiting for it Sep 17 09:17:59 * Eguy goes to download before sleep Sep 17 09:18:24 i dont know why they put a time when the app will expire :( Sep 17 09:18:28 Eguy, sure its not the rss reader from the webos book? :p Sep 17 09:18:35 acydlord: nope Sep 17 09:18:36 Yes it isn't Sep 17 09:18:50 It's made from scratch it look slike Sep 17 09:18:58 well it uses google reader Sep 17 09:19:20 I will wait for standalone support Sep 17 09:19:29 I didn't notice the google reader requirement Sep 17 09:21:00 i dont mine coz i use google reader sync with netnewswire Sep 17 09:21:46 en0x to please Palm Sep 17 09:22:05 I have two Palms Sep 17 09:22:10 s/mine/mind Sep 17 09:22:19 i cant type... its too early :S Sep 17 09:22:55 i went to find where i left my pre earlier Sep 17 09:23:10 found 3 palm batteries scattered around my livingroom Sep 17 09:34:28 en0x: they put an expiry time cause they are going to charge for it when it hits the app store Sep 17 09:36:00 welp, off to watch a movie and sleep Sep 17 09:36:04 night all Sep 17 10:56:40 is there a way for preware to not show themes in list all applications? Sep 17 10:58:08 hello Sep 17 10:58:32 anyone here Sep 17 11:13:25 franky_40 gives up way too fast Sep 17 11:13:39 dude, ask question, wait one hour... pfft Sep 17 11:17:51 ;] Sep 17 11:17:56 its only 7am Sep 17 11:17:57 :S Sep 17 11:25:17 :) Sep 17 11:25:29 the way to deal with IRC: fire off question. Go do something else. Check later when you remember Sep 17 11:25:45 if by some miracle, someone knows what you want to know immediately, they'll ask you further questions before you get up Sep 17 11:26:31 hehe Sep 17 11:26:45 i;m up since 4am so i'm cool Sep 17 11:26:49 doing some o/t at work Sep 17 11:29:41 I love ot Sep 17 11:29:47 I don't get ot pay, but I get a lot done Sep 17 11:29:57 i get ot pay Sep 17 11:30:05 thats why i'm working some o/t :D Sep 17 11:30:06 during regular hours people pester me. The problem with being the go-to guy on things is people go to you Sep 17 11:36:28 thats how it is Sep 17 11:36:41 helping other ppl at your job sucks Sep 17 11:36:42 :p Sep 17 11:42:31 Has anyone had any experience with overclocking the Pre with SmartReflex? Sep 17 12:25:47 * rwhitby_ bbt Sep 17 13:04:53 yo, preware folks Sep 17 13:05:08 You can now install themes via Preware Sep 17 13:05:17 can you install multiples and choose between them? Sep 17 13:05:21 or is that being worked on? Sep 17 13:05:38 and can you restore the original Palm theme? Sep 17 13:24:47 it's one theme at a time Sep 17 13:24:57 you should uninstall a theme when you install a new one Sep 17 13:25:02 well BEFORE you install a new one Sep 17 13:30:31 hehehe Sep 17 13:30:34 cheers for that Sep 17 13:30:49 (did my PreThemer post meet with your approval, btw?) Sep 17 13:31:11 Yea, but my bad I meant just call me Marcus F. Sep 17 13:31:17 as in my name, and initial of last name ;) Sep 17 13:31:35 * freakout edits now Sep 17 13:32:47 fixed Sep 17 13:33:11 schweet Sep 17 13:33:31 anyone have issues with the themes? I noticed a poster said that underoath theme wasnt working for uninstall Sep 17 13:33:33 but it worked for me Sep 17 13:34:36 * sportman wants to test more Sep 17 13:34:43 they've all worked perfectly for me Sep 17 13:35:04 What I'd love to see next is a PreThemer app, that lets you mix-and-match Sep 17 13:35:21 (although I recognize that'd be a lot of hard work :) ) Sep 17 13:35:31 theres an underoath theme? Sep 17 13:35:32 kick ass Sep 17 13:36:09 (i'm on the emulator though due to lack of GSM - australian - so maybe Pre people are having different problems) Sep 17 13:36:25 well hmm, I just installed it stupidly over android prefection Sep 17 13:36:35 uninstall, and had some android icons left, which is fine Sep 17 13:36:39 whats android prefection a theme Sep 17 13:36:40 ? Sep 17 13:36:46 but the only thing that WONT go away is the dang launcher backgroun Sep 17 13:36:57 http://www.prethemer.com/Android_Prefection-theme15.html Sep 17 13:42:18 k4p741nkrunch: rwhitby: I think the category field on theme should match the category chosen on Prethemer, what do you think Sep 17 13:42:44 Originally I had it under themes, but now that there's a Theme section of PreWare, I guess it can be changed to the actual category Sep 17 13:42:49 can oil or rod confirm? Sep 17 13:43:46 removed the animated boot logos from the feed as well Sep 17 13:44:35 * sportman wants to hack his pres antenna Sep 17 13:44:37 make it stronger Sep 17 13:44:37 ol Sep 17 13:46:24 make what stronger? Sep 17 13:58:58 my attena Sep 17 13:59:00 lol Sep 17 13:59:30 i get shitty sprint service indoors Sep 17 13:59:33 but have 4 bars outside Sep 17 13:59:39 somethings weird about that in my opinion Sep 17 13:59:44 XD Sep 17 13:59:45 Nah Sep 17 13:59:54 but i get 4 vzw roaming indoors and out Sep 17 13:59:55 :( Sep 17 14:00:01 not really, your building could be assorbing the signals Sep 17 14:00:04 but i want ev not this shitty 1x bullshit Sep 17 14:00:19 it depends on where the tower is located Sep 17 14:00:27 Turn on wifi Sep 17 14:00:28 >.> Sep 17 14:00:30 :( Sep 17 14:00:31 lol Sep 17 14:00:38 yay wifi Sep 17 14:00:38 then you don't need worry Sep 17 14:00:43 maybe later Sep 17 14:00:51 calls will go over 1x fine and so will sms Sep 17 14:00:54 XD Sep 17 14:01:01 Tilton53: i didnt get this phone for calls Sep 17 14:01:02 lol Sep 17 14:01:15 Yeah well anything data will go over the wifi Sep 17 14:01:17 so :p Sep 17 14:01:38 also palm has stated that using wifi in a low signal area improves battery life Sep 17 14:01:46 still no 1.2, wtf! Sep 17 14:02:01 since boosting the cell signal will take more energy then running wifi Sep 17 14:02:03 <.< Sep 17 14:02:11 ehh Sep 17 14:02:24 are there any speed test apps for pre? Sep 17 14:02:46 XD Try speedtest.net Sep 17 14:02:50 but not that I know of Sep 17 14:03:14 You could thether it to a computer and get a rough idea Sep 17 14:03:49 has anyone un peacekeeper? Sep 17 14:05:53 * atlanta is tinkering with the phone app to make it auto reject a certain phone number Sep 17 14:06:02 lol Sep 17 14:06:08 blacklist would be awesome Sep 17 14:06:15 yea if i get it to work Sep 17 14:06:20 im going to try to make an extension Sep 17 14:06:59 looks like it might be easy just add on a function that will call the function just as the same tapping would Sep 17 14:07:10 nice Sep 17 14:08:23 damn the pre and not being able to handle a proxy Sep 17 14:08:35 means no advancements get done at work Sep 17 14:08:47 atlanta: no evdo? Sep 17 14:10:11 nope Sep 17 14:10:26 get like no bars on evdo then it goes into 1 bar 1x Sep 17 14:10:33 i just use the roam only at work Sep 17 14:10:45 building sucks all the signal out Sep 17 14:12:28 I still trying to figure out why they didn't make the pre-proxy capable Sep 17 14:12:36 >.> It's not like linux can't handle a proxy Sep 17 14:12:37 XD Sep 17 14:12:53 * sportman tries learning some more dev stuff Sep 17 14:13:24 Oh lala if i remember correctly theres a config file where you can force everything through a proxy in linux Sep 17 14:13:39 any linux gurus on right now Sep 17 14:13:42 before i got googling Sep 17 14:17:54 Tilton53: how come no one has added a proxy to preware :D Sep 17 14:17:56 atlanta - you want a proxy proxy, or are you happy if spoofing Sep 17 14:18:27 I can assist you to do spoofing like if you want browser (some domain) to go to (some particular IP) Sep 17 14:19:09 I just came to vent this out: You guys seriously need to work on providing tethering or WiFi bridging instructions. It's annoying that Aonic is profiting off your initial work with his donation-only MyTether Sep 17 14:19:19 for this just edit /etc/hosts - entries in this file override dynamic DNS look ups of hostnames Sep 17 14:19:48 n00b763: i thought about that the other Sep 17 14:20:14 n00b763: i dont find teathering that way to be useful so i havent wasted my time Sep 17 14:20:24 n00b763: seeing that myself and a few other posted up the instructions on how to do it orginally Sep 17 14:20:24 NAT+IPforwarding >> teathering Sep 17 14:20:36 PuffTheMagic: and pretty much all he doing Sep 17 14:21:12 n00b763: the only thing is he made it easier to turn on and off which is still bull but whatever Sep 17 14:21:27 ill post up the commands to make it work Sep 17 14:21:28 are the instructions you speak of on the wiki? Sep 17 14:21:41 n00b763:some people around here are afraid of Teather talk since sprint dont support it Sep 17 14:21:51 I understand that Sep 17 14:21:52 thats probably why no one has spent the time Sep 17 14:22:00 no not on wiki since palm monitors it Sep 17 14:22:00 and because "we wanna work with palm" etc etc Sep 17 14:22:05 but in a post on precentral Sep 17 14:22:12 I completely understand that Sep 17 14:22:27 this id more of a sprint thing than a palm thing Sep 17 14:22:31 palm dont care if u teather Sep 17 14:22:32 sprint might Sep 17 14:22:33 i dont have time at this current moment to search but do a post search on my name Sep 17 14:22:33 but someone has to release that info out of the wiki/IRC mediums and stop this premium app crap Sep 17 14:22:45 lol Sep 17 14:22:52 I mean until a month ago he was using the original webOS internals service Sep 17 14:22:55 n00b763: i might add it to my todo list Sep 17 14:22:58 but its getting long Sep 17 14:23:03 PuffTheMagic: i bet Sep 17 14:23:05 your the man lol Sep 17 14:23:28 now when you are saying Teathering Sep 17 14:23:32 n00b763: do you have your phone rooted? Sep 17 14:23:35 you are talking about doing #777 Sep 17 14:23:40 I have his app Sep 17 14:23:41 and getting on sprint network right? Sep 17 14:23:43 though modem? Sep 17 14:23:44 1.5.0 Sep 17 14:24:06 PuffTheMagic: that way i believe sprint knows your tethering Sep 17 14:24:09 he's running his own service now... and he's moved his shell code to being inside a java container Sep 17 14:24:29 atlanta: yeah, but that is what people want right? Sep 17 14:24:43 PuffTheMagic: no Sep 17 14:24:55 atlanta: i mean the alternative is ipforwarding+nat over wifi and bt Sep 17 14:24:57 PuffTheMagic: the wifi option is the majority of what people want i assume Sep 17 14:24:59 and that is not really teathering Sep 17 14:25:02 Sprint doesn't know... to them the traffic is coming from the phone itself Sep 17 14:25:06 right Sep 17 14:25:09 exactly Sep 17 14:25:11 but when people say Teather Sep 17 14:25:17 teather is the 777 thing Sep 17 14:25:19 not NAT Sep 17 14:25:20 true Sep 17 14:25:23 His free app has WiFi too... but it lacks ANY encryption Sep 17 14:25:29 my biggest gripe Sep 17 14:25:31 but most people cant relate to the computer terms Sep 17 14:25:31 the NAT thing is easy cheesey Sep 17 14:25:54 n00b763: true but that can be handle by a few cli commands Sep 17 14:25:54 so he's basically charging people for security Sep 17 14:25:57 that's EVIL Sep 17 14:25:58 so what does this service do? Sep 17 14:26:02 PuffTheMagic: Sep 17 14:26:02 does anyone have the pay app Sep 17 14:26:06 so we can decompile it :D Sep 17 14:26:09 no but i have the free one Sep 17 14:26:16 the free one is POS Sep 17 14:26:27 i was just curious what was in the jar Sep 17 14:26:29 it basically so he just call the service Sep 17 14:26:33 and it runs the commands Sep 17 14:26:42 I was thinking of paying for his app, decompiling it, and then releasing a "simplified" version Sep 17 14:26:49 n00b763: lol Sep 17 14:26:53 he can't sue me for something that's kinda illegal to begin with Sep 17 14:27:01 * atlanta and n00b763 had the same thoughts Sep 17 14:27:16 the jar has the shell commands that were previously in the apps container folder Sep 17 14:27:23 do you want the JAR? Sep 17 14:27:26 yea Sep 17 14:27:29 for the 1.5.0 Sep 17 14:27:39 i decompiled them a while back Sep 17 14:27:54 so i guess i need to recruit oil to make another gui Sep 17 14:27:56 its the same thing just the .sh files that the java calls Sep 17 14:27:58 for another servcice i need to make :D Sep 17 14:28:01 PuffTheMagic: indeed Sep 17 14:28:05 lol Sep 17 14:28:25 PuffTheMagic: if he doesnt have time i can make some widget and get it to work long as you can make the service Sep 17 14:28:42 PuffTheMagic: thats the part i haven't got a chance to learn Sep 17 14:28:43 I just rename the file to zip... Sep 17 14:29:07 PuffTheMagic: hey do you think $export http_proxy=http://:@: Sep 17 14:29:24 do i think what? Sep 17 14:29:33 actually the issue is the driver in the free version doesn't seem to support the IFCONFIG (or the WIFI eq. of that) to support the encrypt option Sep 17 14:29:38 think that will allow the pre browser to go through the proxy Sep 17 14:29:38 ? Sep 17 14:29:42 I tried without any luck Sep 17 14:29:54 n00b763: probably need iproute2 Sep 17 14:30:00 no biggie Sep 17 14:30:04 n00b763: what driver does he use Sep 17 14:30:05 ? Sep 17 14:30:06 its easy to use ip instad of ifconfig Sep 17 14:30:17 in the .sh code Sep 17 14:30:21 oh ok Sep 17 14:30:30 yea he uses iwconfig and shit Sep 17 14:30:33 where he kills the default WIFI and switches drivers Sep 17 14:30:33 there is nothing special in his app Sep 17 14:30:48 I know, that's what pisses me off Sep 17 14:30:50 this is linux 101 wrapped in mojo gui Sep 17 14:30:58 lol Sep 17 14:31:07 so are you paying for the mojo gui Sep 17 14:31:08 ? Sep 17 14:31:08 lol Sep 17 14:31:14 lol NO Sep 17 14:31:20 i dont pay for software Sep 17 14:31:25 same here Sep 17 14:31:25 lol Sep 17 14:31:27 thats why i use linux Sep 17 14:31:33 to get aaway from that crap Sep 17 14:32:05 crap i want to try this proxy thing brb going to get the usb cable Sep 17 14:32:31 I'm gonna dig his IFCONFIG code Sep 17 14:32:32 brb Sep 17 14:33:57 why is encryption so important Sep 17 14:34:03 people are seriously paranoid Sep 17 14:34:45 you guys see that wolfenstine pre remake? Sep 17 14:34:51 the screenshots that guy posted looked sick Sep 17 14:34:53 ummm... I work as a security consultant Sep 17 14:35:00 trust me, security is pretty important Sep 17 14:35:06 that's what I get paid for... lol Sep 17 14:35:32 here's his wifi.sh code >>> http://pastebin.com/f331900db Sep 17 14:35:37 n00b763: im talking about a personal level Sep 17 14:35:41 not business Sep 17 14:37:24 hey n00b763 you have access to your phone right now Sep 17 14:37:25 ? Sep 17 14:37:42 wellyes Sep 17 14:37:48 I am tethered... lol Sep 17 14:37:58 USB, using MyTether free Sep 17 14:38:15 i should try teathering Sep 17 14:38:18 that would be fun Sep 17 14:38:18 :-p Sep 17 14:38:38 n00b763: try doing those commands through cli Sep 17 14:38:41 and adding Sep 17 14:38:47 iwconfig eth0 key 1234567890 Sep 17 14:38:55 seeing if it will allow to add a wep key Sep 17 14:39:01 I have tried that Sep 17 14:39:20 and also tried encrypt... and restrict (or is it restricted) Sep 17 14:39:34 no go? Sep 17 14:39:44 nope Sep 17 14:39:53 tried every which here described here: http://linux.die.net/man/8/iwconfig Sep 17 14:40:08 I think the culprit is the driver Sep 17 14:40:11 oh lala wanna go half on the app Sep 17 14:40:11 ? Sep 17 14:40:22 lol Sep 17 14:40:33 only if we release it for free... Sep 17 14:40:58 I mean release our version of it... AHEM! Sep 17 14:41:00 iwconfig can do web Sep 17 14:41:02 wep oi mean Sep 17 14:41:04 i mean Sep 17 14:41:08 thats what i thought Sep 17 14:41:08 it cant do wpa Sep 17 14:41:12 thats all he using Sep 17 14:41:17 n00b763: thats fine Sep 17 14:41:21 lame Sep 17 14:41:27 yeah his 2.01 apparently supports WEP Sep 17 14:41:28 i will support wpa :D Sep 17 14:41:31 LMFAO just went to his site how do you set a donation amount lol Sep 17 14:41:39 I know WEP can be broken in to a million pieces Sep 17 14:41:54 you have to "donate" at least $14.95 Sep 17 14:41:56 so im surprise no one has built MAME for the Pre yet Sep 17 14:41:56 might as well be a paid app Sep 17 14:41:57 he's very specific Sep 17 14:42:02 that will be the best app ever Sep 17 14:42:12 wait did you check Reddit today Sep 17 14:42:20 JS based NES emulator!!! Sep 17 14:42:22 n00b763: i cant change the value so seems like a paid app to me Sep 17 14:42:29 n00b763: Mame is not NES Sep 17 14:42:35 Mame is arcade machines Sep 17 14:42:39 I know Sep 17 14:42:43 http://benfirshman.com/projects/jsnes/ Sep 17 14:43:01 atlanta: i am making an ipk for fceux right now :D Sep 17 14:43:07 then u can play contra :D Sep 17 14:43:09 yep, it's a paid "donate only" app Sep 17 14:43:12 nebula has been working on porting jsnes or something like that over to the pre. dont know how much he's done, though Sep 17 14:43:23 no need to port jsnes Sep 17 14:43:29 fceux works out of the box Sep 17 14:43:31 PuffTheMagic: let me know how it comes out Sep 17 14:43:46 atlanta: you can test it hopefully in a few min Sep 17 14:43:50 start downloading some roms :D Sep 17 14:44:22 PuffTheMagic: does it work in luna? Sep 17 14:44:22 atlanta: are we going with the "OurTether" app or not...? Sep 17 14:44:47 atlanta: im all for it long as PuffTheMagic has time to make the service Sep 17 14:44:51 gkatsev: no it wont... but directfb apps in Luna works and the code will be out as soon as the docs are done Sep 17 14:45:01 cool Sep 17 14:45:22 atlanta: a servce to do ipforward+nat will be easy Sep 17 14:45:25 its on my list now Sep 17 14:45:43 and encrypted WiFi? Sep 17 14:45:51 yeah yeah Sep 17 14:46:14 I must say, the idea of the first Pre Warez does sound intriguing Sep 17 14:46:18 maybe not a priority for a 0.0.1 release Sep 17 14:46:47 I get drunk and pissed enough at Aonic over the weekend, I might just paid him his $14.95 prize and upload that thing to rapidshare Sep 17 14:47:05 n00b763: now that would be mean lol Sep 17 14:47:22 PuffTheMagic: ok let me know when you getter done ill get the mojo goign Sep 17 14:47:31 my graphics man can make it look nice Sep 17 14:47:50 atlanta: well you can start on the mojo if you want Sep 17 14:47:54 now Sep 17 14:48:00 ok Sep 17 14:48:02 then i would know exactly what info you want Sep 17 14:48:10 i mean... Sep 17 14:48:14 the service dont need to come first Sep 17 14:48:18 true Sep 17 14:48:26 ill get him to layout the app today then Sep 17 14:48:36 in photoshohp then when he's done ill code it up Sep 17 14:56:49 wow Sep 17 14:56:57 sprint evdo is dam fast Sep 17 14:57:13 are you tethered too? Sep 17 14:57:17 too bad i don't get good evdo coverage here :-p, have to sit outside on a bench Sep 17 14:57:24 nah, not teathered just sshed in and did a wget Sep 17 14:57:46 installed irssi on my chroot for debian Sep 17 14:57:51 yep, downs are pretty fast... uploads, not so much Sep 17 14:58:30 woot woot Sep 17 14:58:49 yay irssi Sep 17 14:58:54 fucken great man Sep 17 14:59:13 lets give me some app suggestions to run :D Sep 17 14:59:39 I don't know... Nano instead of vi would be a start... Sep 17 14:59:39 cpuburn Sep 17 15:00:11 i installed nano Sep 17 15:00:13 way better Sep 17 15:00:16 exit Sep 17 15:00:41 * atlanta still needs to install term Sep 17 15:01:09 Luna term? Sep 17 15:01:29 ok sweet Sep 17 15:01:34 FCEUX is golden Sep 17 15:01:45 just got to make ipkg for SDL and Directfb :D Sep 17 15:02:08 nano.. better than vi? how wrong you are sir. ;) Sep 17 15:02:30 well tbh I can understand it on a phone keyboard since doing : and pressing esc etc. is probably a little tricky... =) Sep 17 15:02:32 zomg: what he ment to say is easier to comprehend Sep 17 15:02:41 ah, that is true :D Sep 17 15:02:48 lol Sep 17 15:02:58 PuffTheMagic: really? Sep 17 15:03:02 yup Sep 17 15:03:08 PuffTheMagic: what else did you do to FCEUX does it still kill luna? Sep 17 15:03:09 look in preware in about 15 min Sep 17 15:03:11 if not what did you do to fix it Sep 17 15:03:16 Someone should make a phone keyboard optimized programmer's editor :D Sep 17 15:03:21 and do you have audio going? Sep 17 15:03:23 sportman: fceux does nto kill luna Sep 17 15:03:27 you must kill it first your self Sep 17 15:03:29 :D Sep 17 15:03:32 :D Sep 17 15:03:38 so that still happens? Sep 17 15:03:40 yeah Sep 17 15:03:46 but your gonna install it in preware? Sep 17 15:03:59 how is one gonna recover luna... they would have to hook it up to a computer Sep 17 15:04:01 not till the secret code is release can it be integrated into cards/luna Sep 17 15:04:02 or ssh in correct? Sep 17 15:04:18 sportman: there are lots of ways, how you do it is not really my conscern Sep 17 15:04:28 true Sep 17 15:04:48 well maybe im just confused about whats gonna be in preware Sep 17 15:05:01 just all the install stuff, then one would still launch it the old fashion way ? Sep 17 15:05:13 libsdl 1.2, DirectFB 1.2, and FCEUX 2.1.1 Sep 17 15:05:25 is what im gonna add Sep 17 15:05:31 so then all you need to do is download a rom Sep 17 15:05:39 and then kill luna and play Sep 17 15:06:02 back from luna shell Sep 17 15:06:12 sweet Sep 17 15:07:01 I am a little behind: How do I kill luna and get shell on the Pre's own screen... Sep 17 15:07:11 I mean I know I can kill luna via SSH Sep 17 15:07:21 back from luna shell Sep 17 15:08:53 PuffTheMagic: now that you've brought it up I've been thinking about the console / vt switching again Sep 17 15:09:04 destinal: yeah? Sep 17 15:12:35 can anyone tell me if /usr/sbin/wifidriver is present on their non-MyTether installed Pre? Sep 17 15:14:10 n00b763: last I checked the rules of this channel did not allow tethering discussion. Sep 17 15:14:47 PuffTheMagic: yup, it seems like vt's shouldn't be that hard, I want to look into why Sep 17 15:14:52 we've been discussing the app for the past 30 minutes Sep 17 15:14:57 err why there were issues Sep 17 15:15:07 destinal: like i said, i will have to try doing this via a service Sep 17 15:15:11 instead from a plugin Sep 17 15:15:15 n00b763: sorry, i just saw it. Sep 17 15:15:17 i dropped my pre Sep 17 15:15:18 :( Sep 17 15:15:22 it slid off the bench Sep 17 15:15:24 onto concrete Sep 17 15:15:29 it had no scratches Sep 17 15:15:31 that didnt last long Sep 17 15:15:32 :( Sep 17 15:15:33 i cry now Sep 17 15:16:11 ouch Sep 17 15:16:27 I dropped mine while running in Central Park Sep 17 15:16:37 got plenty of scratches Sep 17 15:16:43 i'm just goin off http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS-Internals_IRC_Channel_Policy, n00b763. Sep 17 15:17:16 I know, we're just discussing that app and how it handles the WiFi driver Sep 17 15:17:40 PuffTheMagic: ameng's stuff is great, but since the pre ships with directfb support natively it would be nice to have either option work Sep 17 15:17:57 destinal: that shouldnt be a big deal Sep 17 15:18:04 pre has DirectFB 1.1 Sep 17 15:18:15 i am making an ipk for 1.2 right now Sep 17 15:18:18 and it dont conflict Sep 17 15:18:25 and once ameng is done Sep 17 15:18:30 i can make an ipk for that too Sep 17 15:18:43 regarding the vt stuff, we could have a c service talk to hidd to switch consoles on a key combination Sep 17 15:18:52 destinal: but yeah i will try and put more thought into a way to switch back and forth from Luna Sep 17 15:18:55 if switching can be made to work at all Sep 17 15:19:21 destinal: no need for hidd Sep 17 15:19:27 destinal: a little mojo app would be enough Sep 17 15:19:36 PuffTheMagic: right but switching _back_ Sep 17 15:19:42 and it would be nice to switch away faster Sep 17 15:19:43 destinal: chvt Sep 17 15:19:49 chvt 1 Sep 17 15:19:50 like alt-f1 Sep 17 15:19:51 goes back Sep 17 15:19:55 on a pc Sep 17 15:19:59 chvt 1 == alt-f1 Sep 17 15:20:04 and no need for keyboard Sep 17 15:20:25 I like having a hot key do it, ok? :P Sep 17 15:20:41 sure, if i had a 104 key keyboard Sep 17 15:20:47 moot point if we can't get it working at all Sep 17 15:20:49 not this POS missing key pre board Sep 17 15:22:15 PuffTheMagic: if you want to keep an app running fg on another vt, a hotkey will be very desirable. Sep 17 15:22:38 there are bound to be combinations we can use that aren't used by anything Sep 17 15:22:44 ctrl+z; bg; chvt Sep 17 15:22:52 :D Sep 17 15:22:57 PuffTheMagic: there are situations that won't work Sep 17 15:23:14 graphical apps especially Sep 17 15:23:22 destinal: i dont have enough time in a day to figure out hidd plugins Sep 17 15:23:37 PuffTheMagic: nobody said you had to Sep 17 15:23:43 you're not the only one here Sep 17 15:24:28 :) Sep 17 15:25:07 Anyone know what kinda WiFi chipset we have in there... or a way to find that out? Sep 17 15:25:59 n00b763: Marvell W8686B12 I think? Sep 17 15:28:23 thanks destinal Sep 17 15:29:37 PuffTheMagic: and anyway, consuming information from hidd doesn't require plugins. palm's directfb already does it, for instance. Sep 17 15:30:15 yeah, hidd talks to plugins to get at the hardware, but luna and their directfb module(s) just talk to hidd Sep 17 15:31:15 so would you guys suggest tooth paste for the one scratch i have? Sep 17 15:31:56 unless it's really faint, it probably wont work Sep 17 15:31:58 I suggest you let it go, not think about it... and in a couple of weeks you will get used to it Sep 17 15:32:07 at least that was my experience Sep 17 15:32:21 I've paid a lot more for unlocked GSM phones in the past Sep 17 15:32:28 are all the pre games pretty crappy right now or is it just me? ;) Sep 17 15:32:29 tried my best not to get em scratched Sep 17 15:32:33 mrjcarter: yea true :( Sep 17 15:32:38 but always dropped em and gotten scratches Sep 17 15:32:45 :( Sep 17 15:32:49 eventually, you stop giving a shit Sep 17 15:33:00 sportsman, I definitely feel your pain though Sep 17 15:33:45 :( Sep 17 15:36:20 right now its still bothering me a lot though Sep 17 15:37:08 I thought about telling sprint it does random reboots and getting a replacement for my scratched phone Sep 17 15:37:25 but is it worth all the time I've spent on optimizing this... don't think so Sep 17 15:37:26 yea Sep 17 15:37:33 i just got it monday Sep 17 15:37:36 so i really could say that Sep 17 15:37:42 may be if it really breaks down Sep 17 15:37:53 yeah, you can. but DONT go to the store Sep 17 15:37:53 yea i may be more inclined to use my warrenty Sep 17 15:37:56 call in Sep 17 15:37:57 if it glitches a bit Sep 17 15:38:07 that way i get rid of the scratches Sep 17 15:38:07 yea? Sep 17 15:38:09 call in? Sep 17 15:38:17 tell them you work and stuff and you don't really have time to go the store Sep 17 15:38:23 insist that they ship the replacement to you Sep 17 15:38:28 lol Sep 17 15:38:34 They'll do it Sep 17 15:38:39 good to know Sep 17 15:39:15 the problem has to be something hard to reproduce though Sep 17 15:39:42 if you tell 'em your button doesn't work, and their warehouse tech says it does, they'll change you like a $150 replacement fee or something Sep 17 15:40:03 wth is up with engadget :/ Sep 17 15:40:28 that would suck Sep 17 15:40:31 I don't see any Pre stuff today... Sep 17 15:40:36 on engadget Sep 17 15:41:04 go to engadget.com Sep 17 15:41:09 does it work? Sep 17 15:41:18 so im trying to get x11 Sep 17 15:41:21 anyone get fluxbox Sep 17 15:41:22 working? Sep 17 15:41:27 or any linux gui Sep 17 15:41:27 yeah Sep 17 15:41:33 I just did, it's working Sep 17 15:41:51 hah, it is now. Sep 17 15:41:55 got disconnected. what was the consensus on me changing the categories on the themes? Sep 17 15:42:31 * sportman worries some more about scratch Sep 17 15:42:32 poor pre Sep 17 15:46:27 speaking of which, any opinions on the best screen protector for the pre? Sep 17 15:47:43 I got a $2 shipped "mirror" protector from HongKong Sep 17 15:47:49 works as advertised Sep 17 15:47:57 like a privacy screen Sep 17 15:47:58 can only speak for what I've tried, but I like phantomskinz Sep 17 15:48:31 in fact, it kinda "hides" the minor scratches on my screen... Sep 17 15:49:10 guess what is in Preware now :D Sep 17 15:49:45 auto udpates?! Sep 17 15:50:02 sdl,directfb,fceux! Sep 17 15:50:20 awesome Sep 17 15:50:22 w00t Sep 17 15:50:23 let me try Sep 17 15:53:17 wooth Sep 17 15:53:18 woot Sep 17 15:53:22 it dont kill luna either Sep 17 15:53:29 luna stays open in BG Sep 17 15:53:33 so u can play nes Sep 17 15:53:37 then quit Sep 17 15:53:38 :D Sep 17 15:54:10 does sound work with it? Sep 17 15:54:12 lol Sep 17 15:54:13 :( Sep 17 15:55:52 awesome stuff, can't wait to try it Sep 17 15:55:52 idk Sep 17 15:55:55 doubt it Sep 17 15:55:58 but maybe Sep 17 15:56:05 i've tried with --sound 0 Sep 17 16:02:50 rwhitby: theme uninstallation didnt work right for me. Sep 17 16:03:08 to view the contents on an ipk file, can I simply untar it? Sep 17 16:03:36 n00b763: try it. Sep 17 16:03:57 n00b763: depends Sep 17 16:04:01 n00b763: cpio Sep 17 16:04:10 if it's .deb format as I think .ipks are. Sep 17 16:04:11 hrmm Sep 17 16:04:17 n00b763: most ipks can be extracted using 'ar -x' Sep 17 16:04:39 thanks Puff, that worked Sep 17 16:04:56 hey do you know that they were talking about smoking marijuana in that song? Sep 17 16:05:02 so this is interesting Sep 17 16:05:03 that's my "Meet the Parents" joke Sep 17 16:05:05 vlc will play audio Sep 17 16:05:17 if i do vlc "audio.mp3" Sep 17 16:05:19 ar tv somepackage.ipk Sep 17 16:05:28 works here. Sep 17 16:06:00 ar -x worked Sep 17 16:06:11 now I gotta untar the control.gz Sep 17 16:06:35 right Sep 17 16:06:55 n00b763: yes... sorta why i picked the name ;) Sep 17 16:08:14 sportman: why wouldnt it? Sep 17 16:08:36 i dunno Sep 17 16:08:43 well like that linux app has sound Sep 17 16:08:49 so im trying to figure out what the deal with the emulator is Sep 17 16:08:57 as its a linux app run from the same command line Sep 17 16:09:01 lol Sep 17 16:09:04 :( Sep 17 16:10:07 sportman: FCEUX? Sep 17 16:10:10 sound works Sep 17 16:10:11 sorta Sep 17 16:10:23 can i see your conf files Sep 17 16:10:24 ? Sep 17 16:10:25 :D Sep 17 16:14:44 omg, there are marijuana smokers in the channel?! Sep 17 16:14:48 it's the Apocalypse! Sep 17 16:16:14 I didn't know you could be a coder and NOT smoke? Sep 17 16:16:17 There are rules here! Sep 17 16:16:22 i dont smoke Sep 17 16:16:23 :( Sep 17 16:16:28 but im not a good coder Sep 17 16:16:29 so meh Sep 17 16:16:29 lol Sep 17 16:16:31 ergo Sep 17 16:16:33 ... Sep 17 16:16:37 lol summatusmentis Sep 17 16:16:38 :D Sep 17 16:16:40 *sugardave Sep 17 16:17:03 im trying to compile dgen Sep 17 16:17:07 no dice yet Sep 17 16:17:21 sportman: so sound is pretty shitty Sep 17 16:17:23 idk why Sep 17 16:17:25 i will look into it Sep 17 16:17:30 alrighty cool Sep 17 16:17:33 i couldnt get any sound Sep 17 16:17:36 not sure what you did diff Sep 17 16:17:38 i need to figure out the controls Sep 17 16:17:44 sportman: --sound 1 Sep 17 16:17:52 :-p Sep 17 16:18:08 and if i install through preware Sep 17 16:18:19 i dont need to access that debian chroot any more Sep 17 16:18:20 :) Sep 17 16:18:34 :D Sep 17 16:19:11 id love to see things like make installed on the regular os Sep 17 16:19:12 :) Sep 17 16:19:42 * Mousey waves Sep 17 16:19:44 this is slow as hell though Sep 17 16:19:50 whats slow Sep 17 16:19:51 ? Sep 17 16:19:56 im gonna have to find better cflags to build this with Sep 17 16:20:04 is there a way to start an app from the pre command line? Sep 17 16:20:37 can_: pre command line? Sep 17 16:20:44 can_: the unix sh prompt? Sep 17 16:20:48 yeah Sep 17 16:20:57 yeah Sep 17 16:21:43 sportman: so if you get this running better let me know what i need to do and i will update the ipks Sep 17 16:21:54 i know you can do it with the palm commands using the SDK. but obviously the SDK isn't installed directly on the pre. Sep 17 16:23:33 PuffTheMagic: how slow is it running for you? Sep 17 16:23:43 and did you compile with scons? Sep 17 16:23:47 sportman: the main screen comes in from the side really slow Sep 17 16:23:59 sportman: yeah scons is the only way you can build 2.x.x Sep 17 16:24:04 0.98 didnt need it Sep 17 16:24:17 ah Sep 17 16:24:22 what happened to the org.webosinternals.services? Sep 17 16:24:30 name change? Sep 17 16:24:33 whats scons do thats so special? Sep 17 16:24:43 I know I am talking about ancient stuff Sep 17 16:24:44 sportman: its just a cross platform build system Sep 17 16:24:49 sorta like autosuck Sep 17 16:24:50 eh Sep 17 16:24:52 cool Sep 17 16:24:52 but less suck Sep 17 16:27:15 so does anyone know what the most exact mtune options i can use in CFLAGS Sep 17 16:27:18 Zune vs. iPhone on load times. http://www.viddler.com/simple_on_site/39d2b8a1 Sep 17 16:27:42 -march=armv4t -mtune=arm9tdmi? Sep 17 16:27:48 -march=armv5t -mtune=xscale? Sep 17 16:27:51 something newer Sep 17 16:27:56 armv7 maybe? Sep 17 16:28:12 not sure Sep 17 16:29:04 ok so what happens when novaterm dies during a make? Sep 17 16:29:07 does the make keep going Sep 17 16:30:48 is the pre a cortex 8 or cortex 9? Sep 17 16:31:01 sportman: just like ssh, it dies Sep 17 16:31:37 tits Sep 17 16:31:39 :( Sep 17 16:32:04 its not like it was being quick Sep 17 16:32:06 it was taking forever Sep 17 16:32:07 ( Sep 17 16:32:07 gonna try -march=armv7-a -mtune=cortex-a8 Sep 17 16:32:17 see if that speeds up fceux and sdl/directfb' Sep 17 16:33:00 let me know :D Sep 17 16:33:09 how do you do those flags Sep 17 16:33:31 if your using scons Sep 17 16:33:47 anyone know about webosinternals.services? Sep 17 16:34:58 gah this scratch is driving me crazy Sep 17 16:35:03 im gonna pray the toothpaste works Sep 17 16:35:07 wait nvm Sep 17 16:35:11 im compiling something better not unhook Sep 17 16:35:12 lol Sep 17 16:36:35 Does PreWare have update notifications on the Pre? Sep 17 16:38:32 sportman: add CFLAGS env var Sep 17 16:38:48 sportman: but im using gentoo/portage to handle the building Sep 17 16:38:53 nice Sep 17 16:38:55 it does all that for me automatically Sep 17 16:39:09 sportman: http://preyourmind.org/content/gentoo-based-cross-development-userland Sep 17 16:39:20 is where i am documenting my development userland Sep 17 16:39:35 i still need to add some stuff for it to be useful for other people Sep 17 16:40:08 heh Sep 17 16:40:12 thats sweet Sep 17 16:40:19 so DirectFB just built fine with new cflags Sep 17 16:40:26 so im assuming sdl and fceux will too Sep 17 16:40:56 i jsut dont know -O2 or -Os is gonna be better Sep 17 16:41:16 cpus with little cache usually do better with -0s Sep 17 16:43:26 ok so if i use the installed version you have Sep 17 16:43:35 of fceux Sep 17 16:43:49 do i still have to configure directfb Sep 17 16:43:53 or is that good now? Sep 17 16:44:16 well i install the directfbrc file Sep 17 16:44:20 idk if its doing anything though Sep 17 16:44:31 ah Sep 17 16:44:40 sportman: im cant guarantee everything is perfect Sep 17 16:44:43 yea Sep 17 16:44:45 obviosuly Sep 17 16:44:45 :) Sep 17 16:44:46 but i know fceux binaryw orks Sep 17 16:44:51 im just asking questions b4 i try it Sep 17 16:44:55 so i will try and get the kinks out Sep 17 16:45:09 sportman: im about to make new versions of each of those packages Sep 17 16:45:14 alright cool Sep 17 16:45:14 see wait a sec to install Sep 17 16:45:17 lol Sep 17 16:45:19 look for the -1 packages Sep 17 16:45:19 well i just installed Sep 17 16:45:23 lol Sep 17 16:45:25 but ill uninstall Sep 17 16:47:26 :-p Sep 17 16:47:34 you can just update i think Sep 17 16:49:29 is it ready to update or not yet? Sep 17 16:49:46 2 min Sep 17 16:51:05 btw if there is a way to have the fceux installer tirgger the SDL and Direct Frame Buffer Sep 17 16:51:07 all at once Sep 17 16:51:11 that may be ideal for noobs Sep 17 16:54:56 sportman: ipkg can support deps Sep 17 16:55:01 but Sep 17 16:55:03 cool Sep 17 16:55:05 postinst will be skipped Sep 17 16:55:11 ahh Sep 17 16:55:12 so we have to handle deps manually in Preare Sep 17 16:55:16 and that isnt implemented yet Sep 17 16:55:20 so if i add teh deps now Sep 17 16:55:30 the package will get installed but no postinst run Sep 17 16:55:33 which is not good Sep 17 16:55:44 yea Sep 17 16:55:46 thats not good at all Sep 17 16:55:53 right Sep 17 16:56:17 hmmm Sep 17 16:56:32 preware does not seem to recognize the -1 on the package Sep 17 16:58:03 hmm Sep 17 16:58:04 umm Sep 17 16:58:06 this is not good Sep 17 17:00:16 ahh my feed is messed up Sep 17 17:00:30 im not adding the -1 Sep 17 17:00:30 :D Sep 17 17:00:30 haha Sep 17 17:00:33 stupid tickets.com Sep 17 17:01:19 lol Sep 17 17:01:22 is it working yet? Sep 17 17:02:15 talking to me? Sep 17 17:02:34 nope talking to PuffTheMagic .... Sep 17 17:02:47 sportman: 2 more min Sep 17 17:02:52 i need to update my feedgenerator :D Sep 17 17:02:53 okeydoke Sep 17 17:02:54 :) Sep 17 17:03:00 so whats an easyway to format my pre? Sep 17 17:03:00 :-p Sep 17 17:04:13 cat /dev/random > /dev/hda Sep 17 17:04:13 :p Sep 17 17:04:51 ummm other than that? Sep 17 17:07:02 dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda Sep 17 17:07:04 sportman: ^ Sep 17 17:07:07 ok back Sep 17 17:07:08 ;D Sep 17 17:07:10 lol Sep 17 17:07:14 sportman: dd if=/dev/input/even2 of=/dev/sda Sep 17 17:07:16 more fun Sep 17 17:07:18 :D Sep 17 17:07:19 i meant something that will leave it recoverable? Sep 17 17:07:22 so i can reinstall webos Sep 17 17:07:24 Could not initialize SDL: DirectFBCreate: Initialization error!. Sep 17 17:07:30 sportman: ahh Sep 17 17:07:32 any idea what would cause this PuffTheMagic ? Sep 17 17:07:34 that one is easy Sep 17 17:07:44 sportman: rm -rf /* Sep 17 17:08:01 and from this u can recover it by using doctor Sep 17 17:08:01 ;d Sep 17 17:08:04 sportman: export SDL_VIDEODRIVER='directfb' Sep 17 17:08:09 PuffTheMagic: i did that... Sep 17 17:08:29 in the same console you are in? Sep 17 17:08:33 yes sir Sep 17 17:08:39 idk then Sep 17 17:08:48 neither do i lol Sep 17 17:08:55 sportman: latest versions are ready now Sep 17 17:08:59 alright cool Sep 17 17:09:19 sportman: edit /etc/profile.d/50sdl Sep 17 17:09:25 add export before SDL_ Sep 17 17:09:29 then close the file Sep 17 17:09:33 ok will do Sep 17 17:09:36 then do 'source /etc/profile' Sep 17 17:09:38 PuffTheMagic: should i still kill luna? Sep 17 17:09:49 sportman: i didnt need to but you could Sep 17 17:09:57 cant hurt? Sep 17 17:09:58 lol Sep 17 17:14:44 oh lala might start a tracker service, would anyone use it Sep 17 17:15:00 to track your phone Sep 17 17:15:01 ? Sep 17 17:15:16 maybe? Sep 17 17:16:06 $20 a year? Sep 17 17:16:09 lol Sep 17 17:16:51 probably make it where you can poll the phone for the location etc Sep 17 17:16:55 sportman: you giving up on fceux? Sep 17 17:17:58 PuffTheMagic: im not giving up Sep 17 17:18:13 just took a 10 minute break Sep 17 17:18:15 studying... Sep 17 17:18:16 :( Sep 17 17:19:03 im a bit upset why that error is popping up Sep 17 17:19:03 :/ Sep 17 17:21:53 sportman: how are you starting it Sep 17 17:21:55 using ssh? Sep 17 17:21:57 terminal? Sep 17 17:22:06 real terminal? Sep 17 17:22:23 sportman: take a gander at this when you have some time and let me know if that's good enough for a basic tutorial: Getting JSON From An External MySQL Database Sep 17 17:22:29 crap, let's try that again Sep 17 17:22:40 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Tutorials_webOS_Getting_JSON_From_An_External_MySQL_Database Sep 17 17:22:47 ssh Sep 17 17:22:52 well novaterm Sep 17 17:23:47 after you connect with novaterm do this Sep 17 17:23:49 'su -' Sep 17 17:23:55 then try the export command Sep 17 17:23:58 then start the emulator Sep 17 17:24:32 and do that now if you can cause im about to go for a smoke break ;) Sep 17 17:24:45 and i want good new while im gone :D Sep 17 17:26:17 ok Sep 17 17:26:18 lol Sep 17 17:26:37 sugardave: thats awesome :D thank you ill give it a try this evening Sep 17 17:26:41 most of it makes sense Sep 17 17:27:10 whats Mcp.assistant though? Sep 17 17:27:32 should that just be SomeASsistant. Sep 17 17:27:33 again? Sep 17 17:28:16 oh yeah, need to still clean up some Sep 17 17:28:26 shold all be SomeAssistant Sep 17 17:28:56 how would i go about displaying that in the app like could you put a portion on what goes in the html Sep 17 17:29:17 i mean im sure i could figure it out, but the more documentation the better for noobs like me Sep 17 17:29:39 yeah, eventually I will update the "What Next?" section with some examples Sep 17 17:29:50 but now I'm about to see if MAG beta finished downloading :D Sep 17 17:30:02 haha Sep 17 17:30:05 whats MAG? Sep 17 17:30:21 ps have you guys seen the work that guy was doing on wolfenstein? Sep 17 17:30:25 im pumped for that :-p Sep 17 17:31:36 sportman: test it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sep 17 17:31:37 :D Sep 17 17:31:39 su - Sep 17 17:31:51 im goinggggg Sep 17 17:31:52 lol Sep 17 17:31:54 you have 1 min 30 second letf Sep 17 17:31:54 dammit i hate vi Sep 17 17:31:58 the my CD is done burning Sep 17 17:32:07 sportman: install ssh and nano Sep 17 17:32:10 vi blows :D Sep 17 17:32:13 i agree Sep 17 17:32:26 can i just copy the binary from my debian chroot? Sep 17 17:32:36 why would u Sep 17 17:32:39 I like to call vi Lisa...just like my highschool sweetheart Sep 17 17:32:43 nano and dropbear are in optware Sep 17 17:32:47 which u can install from preware now Sep 17 17:32:50 ahhh Sep 17 17:32:55 so is Bash Sep 17 17:33:02 ok 30 seconds self Sep 17 17:33:04 lol Sep 17 17:33:06 im hurrying dammit Sep 17 17:33:06 :-p Sep 17 17:33:09 haha Sep 17 17:33:15 why u need vi right now Sep 17 17:34:19 yay installed nano Sep 17 17:34:39 ok forget it... i will be back in a little bit Sep 17 17:35:10 shit Sep 17 17:35:14 it says nano isnt there Sep 17 17:35:16 even though i installed it Sep 17 17:35:18 GRRR Sep 17 17:36:07 /opt/bin/nano? Sep 17 17:36:26 not there.. Sep 17 17:36:35 er, /opt/sbin? Sep 17 17:36:48 nopeees Sep 17 17:36:50 * sugardave just use vi. Sep 17 17:36:51 lol Sep 17 17:37:08 s/vi/vim Sep 17 17:37:52 jesus Sep 17 17:37:59 PuffTheMagic: that line was already in the 50sdl Sep 17 17:42:27 ok this is odd with sound 0 it works Sep 17 17:42:30 with sound 1 it doesnt load the video Sep 17 17:49:29 so would this be something i could call sprint and ask for a new fphone for? Sep 17 17:49:36 the data connection is intermitant Sep 17 17:49:49 sometimes i have to do multiple device reboots to connect my palm to my computer? Sep 17 17:52:11 nc doesn't seem work for me. Makes me sad Sep 17 17:52:13 :( Sep 17 17:52:28 nc? Sep 17 17:52:31 netcat Sep 17 17:52:35 ah Sep 17 17:52:38 like telnet, but handy in scripts and not suckyk Sep 17 17:52:49 :/ Sep 17 17:57:29 jettero: nc comes on the device, and I think it should "just work" Sep 17 17:58:27 sportman: looking for reasons now eh? is the scratch on the back or front? Sep 17 17:58:37 PuffTheMagic: front Sep 17 17:58:42 destinal: front Sep 17 17:58:49 top right of the screen Sep 17 17:58:52 aw Sep 17 17:58:55 like barely misses the touch screen portion Sep 17 17:59:01 if back you could just get a touchstone back Sep 17 17:59:14 alas Sep 17 17:59:17 lol Sep 17 17:59:18 true Sep 17 17:59:25 i dont care about the back as much Sep 17 18:01:57 sugardave: ack, don't do that Sep 17 18:02:16 sugardave: your php script is seriously vulnerable to SQL injection Sep 17 18:03:07 destinal: thats not his real script Sep 17 18:03:11 its just to show how to do it Sep 17 18:03:28 why would he garble the lines of code with php stuff that isn't supposed to be taught by his tutoria? Sep 17 18:03:35 *tutorial? Sep 17 18:03:41 still, let's not post samples that are vulnerable Sep 17 18:06:37 yea Sep 17 18:06:38 true Sep 17 18:06:54 PuffTheMagic: for some reason control layouts for the emulator are foobarred Sep 17 18:06:55 :( Sep 17 18:06:57 brb Sep 17 18:18:08 heh foobarred Sep 17 18:20:21 destinal: I agree that it should just work, but it doesn't Sep 17 18:20:36 destinal: it exits immediately with no error instead of opening connections Sep 17 18:21:42 strace shows it suffer from not finding a tls lib ...cant' find /etc/services, then exit(1 Sep 17 18:21:45 ) Sep 17 18:22:10 no, it opens etc/services... no idea why it fails really Sep 17 18:22:41 fails ot find a lotta libs though Sep 17 18:36:32 sportman: yeah that line is in 50sdl but! Sep 17 18:36:38 profile.d != env.d Sep 17 18:36:45 i think i need to add export to that file Sep 17 18:36:48 ahhh Sep 17 18:36:49 ok Sep 17 18:36:58 so not sure why the key mappings are messed up Sep 17 18:37:00 they used to work Sep 17 18:37:14 rm -rf ~/.fceux Sep 17 18:39:07 but it sounds like its working for you now? Sep 17 18:39:09 sorta Sep 17 18:39:42 PuffTheMagic: well way back when i compiled it myself in debian chroot Sep 17 18:39:52 i had it working perfect except for sound Sep 17 18:40:07 did you run the command to program the keys? Sep 17 18:40:09 now i still have no sound but the keys dont work Sep 17 18:40:14 no i didnt.. Sep 17 18:40:20 im not to sure how that command works Sep 17 18:40:22 cause it asks for like a Sep 17 18:40:24 a bunch of times Sep 17 18:40:29 when i would only wanna input it once.. Sep 17 18:40:35 and i never can make it through that whole configuration.. Sep 17 18:40:36 fceux --inputcfg gamepad Sep 17 18:40:40 yes Sep 17 18:40:43 im aware thats the command Sep 17 18:40:45 yeah i know i had that same issue Sep 17 18:40:54 but i dunno how to make it through the whole config Sep 17 18:41:02 maybe that a difference betwen 2.0.3 and 2.1.1 Sep 17 18:41:11 maybe.. Sep 17 18:41:15 im not sure which one i built Sep 17 18:41:20 i built whatever the tutorial said.. Sep 17 18:41:22 you did 2.0.3 i beleive Sep 17 18:41:23 at the time Sep 17 18:41:28 no Sep 17 18:41:30 2.1.0 Sep 17 18:41:32 i did it monday Sep 17 18:41:33 hmm Sep 17 18:41:37 so whatever was current monday Sep 17 18:41:44 i doubt a .z update would break it like this Sep 17 18:41:49 i never made it through that config thing perfectly though Sep 17 18:41:54 like i was saying Sep 17 18:41:57 but it still worked Sep 17 18:42:14 ok good Sep 17 18:42:17 thats progress Sep 17 18:42:38 so now we need to figure out how to configure just 1 controller :D Sep 17 18:44:40 sportman: fyi... adding export is def required Sep 17 18:44:48 i did that then source /etc/profile Sep 17 18:44:52 and no error :D Sep 17 18:45:16 i will update SDL ipkg for that Sep 17 18:46:45 cool stuff PuffTheMagic Sep 17 18:46:46 :) Sep 17 19:03:45 sportman: so any ideas about the input Sep 17 19:03:51 not at the moment Sep 17 19:03:52 and what might be different on debian Sep 17 19:03:55 im going to retry a few things Sep 17 19:04:08 im gonna recompile it in debian again later this evening Sep 17 19:04:13 im a bit busy for now though Sep 17 19:04:14 :( Sep 17 19:06:27 * punzada just discovered topple ball Sep 17 19:06:34 omg proof the accelerometer isn't shit Sep 17 19:06:36 \o/ Sep 17 19:10:01 sportman: When you do this, you'll be presented with a black window with a titlebar indicating what button to map. FCEUX will look for two of the same keypress/joystick event in a row. If it doesn't find two of the same keypresses in a row, it will allow you to map the button to four seperate keys. Sep 17 19:10:29 where did you find this?? Sep 17 19:10:37 Themes can be uninstalled right? Sep 17 19:10:53 (before I install one) Sep 17 19:10:58 Templarian: where have I seen you before? linuxmce? Sep 17 19:11:16 hrmm nope Sep 17 19:12:09 sportman: I'm the only one that uses this nick there are a few Templar's around though. Sep 17 19:12:28 im tryin to think what channels i would have seen u in Sep 17 19:13:10 damn Sep 17 19:13:18 sportman: If you use Firebug I'm in the contributor section so I use to get mentioned once and a while with firebug stuff. Sep 17 19:13:30 i cant seem to register 2 presses in a row every time Sep 17 19:14:07 destinal: true, I have not cleaned it up, my bad Sep 17 19:14:11 same PuffTheMagic Sep 17 19:14:14 it wont let me :( Sep 17 19:15:58 i wonder why Sep 17 19:16:06 cause it hateszzz us Sep 17 19:16:06 lol Sep 17 19:17:19 hey does anyone know how to go about making the debian bitlbee arm package/depdencies into ipkg? it combined with irssi it would really give the pre a temporary full IM/IRC solution for the time being Sep 17 19:17:26 I know they have an arm port Sep 17 19:19:14 hrmm Sep 17 19:20:17 I wish these themes didn't change the icons.. meh. Sep 17 19:20:31 bbl Sep 17 19:31:03 oh shit Sep 17 19:31:08 there's already a bitlbee package in the repos Sep 17 19:31:10 \o/ Sep 17 19:31:52 destinal: I'll be the first to admit that my code is not strong, so want to take a look at the change I made to the PHP script and see if it's "good enough" Sep 17 19:31:56 ? Sep 17 19:46:53 ~greg Sep 17 19:46:54 Framework for testing other programs and libraries. URL: http://www.gnu.org/software/greg/ Sep 17 19:47:10 Haha damn whats the command again :( Sep 17 19:50:38 ah, I see Preware can update services now. Neat. Sep 17 19:57:03 PuffTheMagic: ! Sweet @ fceu being in Preware. I bet it'd be easy to create a webOS frontend for it. Sep 17 19:57:21 tlp: its not quite right for some reason though Sep 17 19:57:26 input isnt correct Sep 17 19:57:30 ah Sep 17 19:57:36 but its a start Sep 17 19:57:40 still, glad to know luna runs in the background Sep 17 19:57:57 tlp: not quite Sep 17 19:58:03 eh? Sep 17 19:58:05 i might have stopped it and forgot it was stopped Sep 17 19:58:11 oh :/ Sep 17 19:58:14 it sorta saves the state of the fb before sdl starts Sep 17 19:58:17 then restores it Sep 17 19:58:23 oh snap Sep 17 19:58:24 What is the Uber Monitor Service? Sep 17 19:58:27 i got bitblee working Sep 17 19:58:30 bitlbee* Sep 17 19:58:34 full IM support on the pre :D Sep 17 19:58:40 Abyssul: the back end to a system monitor Sep 17 19:58:50 Ok Sep 17 20:01:11 So are these themes now in Preware done via some official theme capability, or are they hacks? Sep 17 20:01:34 .ipk files compressed with theme files Sep 17 20:01:40 hosted on prethemer.com Sep 17 20:02:09 so webOS supports themes natively? i.e. they're not just overwriting the stock bitmaps or something? Sep 17 20:02:53 tlp: i think thats what they are doing from what i can tell. Sep 17 20:03:07 ah Sep 17 20:03:43 But from my experience they uninstall pretty seamlessly with no downsides. Wish the themes didn't redo the icons though making them a little less attractive. Sep 17 20:04:04 yeah, looking at the postinst script now Sep 17 20:04:07 that does seem to be what they do Sep 17 20:04:32 The .ipk replaces the existing .png's with the themes Sep 17 20:05:05 yeah Sep 17 20:06:04 I'm surprised PreCentral hasn't had a post about themes Sep 17 20:06:37 i think they're waiting? Sep 17 20:06:47 tlp: those themes are from precentral so... Sep 17 20:06:53 ahh Sep 17 20:07:16 They are just hosted under one feed (which is actually kind of nice. I think precentral would like to stick with apps) Sep 17 20:07:31 Id stick Pre Themes with PreTHemer Sep 17 20:07:49 He does a excellent job with presenting it and stilll continues to impress Sep 17 20:07:51 the prethemer website actually builds the ipks Sep 17 20:08:04 the designers just upload images for the different parts Sep 17 20:08:16 sportman: maybe i can get directfb 1.1.0 built, then we could use the palm input hidd stuff Sep 17 20:09:19 waht is the deal with the allpapers on the sdk virtual box? Sep 17 20:09:47 I keep putting things in /media/internal/wallpapper, but they don't show up, and if I rm one of the builtins, it disappears form the listing Sep 17 20:09:53 totally not like on the actual phone. Sep 17 20:12:39 jettero: that happened to me early on...trying to remember what I did....I think I had to kill Luna, like it was caching the images directory when Luna starts Sep 17 20:12:52 but, I never revisisted it Sep 17 20:13:11 yeah, I ultimately got it to work by replacing the next-one-up and removing the one before it Sep 17 20:13:18 not telling if it'll survive a reboot Sep 17 20:13:22 who cares I guess Sep 17 20:13:40 if it's the same name, probably, but will be gone in the next update :) Sep 17 20:14:01 yeah, it'll kill /media/internal for sure Sep 17 20:14:05 but it might keep the wallpaper Sep 17 20:14:08 * jettero tries a reboot Sep 17 20:18:34 ja, preserved the wallpaper I set (is in /var somewhere), but replaced /media/internal Sep 17 20:39:45 how is the palm earnings report going ? Sep 17 20:43:58 well Sep 17 20:44:06 810,000 phones sold-through in current quarter Sep 17 20:44:10 (combined sprint + bell) Sep 17 20:44:20 Better than some of the fortune-tellers - sorry, analysts - were predicting Sep 17 20:44:24 but not spectacular either... Sep 17 20:44:52 combined with the previous quarter's Pre sales, that must mean over 1million sold Sep 17 20:44:58 (says my dodgy maths...) Sep 17 20:46:20 Has anyone experimented with the swappiness setting in the Pre? Sep 17 20:48:54 Abyssul: naa i havent played with any of the tunables besides the IO schedueler so far Sep 17 20:49:09 Any improvement on that? Sep 17 20:49:21 yeah using CFS is nice Sep 17 20:49:33 they build all schedulers in Sep 17 20:49:40 so AIO is defauly Sep 17 20:49:44 default Sep 17 20:49:59 I dont know what IO schedueler is so Ill skip that Sep 17 20:50:13 lol Sep 17 20:50:52 * punzada is so happy bitlbee works Sep 17 20:51:34 Abyssul: the IO scheduler decides the order/priority of disk IO Sep 17 20:51:37 Abyssul: I've set the swappiness down, haven't noticed any different in peroformance yet though Sep 17 20:51:39 from different programs Sep 17 20:51:44 So it defaultly useing AIO, but you changed it to CFS. Any side effects or performance changeS? Sep 17 20:51:46 performance* Sep 17 20:51:49 Im reading that now Puff :) Sep 17 20:51:57 Thanks punzada Sep 17 20:51:57 CFS is Completly Fair Scheduler Sep 17 20:52:05 it tries to treat everything equal Sep 17 20:52:12 its the defaul by Linus Sep 17 20:52:17 idk why Palm enabled everything Sep 17 20:52:23 i usually run AIO Sep 17 20:52:33 Anticipatory IO scheduler Sep 17 20:52:45 it uses some heuristics to improve stuff Sep 17 20:53:01 i think on embedded CFS or Deadline woudl be best Sep 17 20:53:08 Deadline gives best throughput Sep 17 20:53:16 but higher latency Sep 17 20:53:20 CFS is about average for both Sep 17 20:53:37 I see Sep 17 20:53:52 yeah cfs is probably the way to go Sep 17 20:54:00 Ill implement it then Sep 17 20:54:19 the trade of is interactivity for throughput Sep 17 20:54:25 I just implemented SmartReflex and went from 10% to 2% per hour Sep 17 20:54:26 when playing with IO schedulers Sep 17 20:54:57 what do you mean by interactivity and throughput? Sep 17 20:55:13 you know how when you run a lot of shit on your computer Sep 17 20:55:17 things get laggy Sep 17 20:55:20 mouse skipps Sep 17 20:55:24 nothing updates Sep 17 20:55:31 yep Sep 17 20:55:33 thats bad interactivity Sep 17 20:55:52 where as good interactivity would mean everything runs smooth regardless of how much stuff youa re doing Sep 17 20:56:04 Then that would mean CFS runs more effeciently but at the cost of performance Sep 17 20:56:13 getting good interactivity usually means throughput goes down Sep 17 20:56:18 cause there are more context switches Sep 17 20:56:29 "performance" is very subjective here Sep 17 20:56:36 indeed Sep 17 20:56:39 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/200636-i-o-scheduler-tweaking.html Sep 17 20:56:42 thoughput and latency are quantitative and can be measured Sep 17 20:56:43 interesting^ Sep 17 20:57:30 what that says CFS is default Sep 17 20:57:35 where did he get that Sep 17 20:58:09 when i was looking in the kernel config default was AIO Sep 17 20:59:08 Mine is CFq Sep 17 20:59:16 and I havnt changed it Sep 17 20:59:18 you just cat it ? Sep 17 20:59:32 indeed Sep 17 20:59:46 cfq is []'ed Sep 17 21:00:11 hmm Sep 17 21:00:30 they must not use the defconfig provided in their kernel patch Sep 17 21:00:36 cause that one has all enabled and aio defualt Sep 17 21:00:36 I have 1.1 btw Sep 17 21:01:34 What are side effects of deadline scheduling? Sep 17 21:01:40 Memory leaks and lock ups? Sep 17 21:04:56 Abyssul: the worse interactivity Sep 17 21:05:00 but best throughput Sep 17 21:07:55 http://twitpic.com/i2i74/full another twitter app? Sep 17 21:08:24 Really? Sep 17 21:08:35 How pathetic ... Sep 17 21:08:39 Is that number 4 now? Sep 17 21:08:48 yap Sep 17 21:09:17 aint bad Palm sold 823,000 Palm Pres during the quarter http://bit.ly/3pvZWK Sep 17 21:09:19 While we have a basic Facebook app, few IM plugins, and no MySpace app Sep 17 21:09:36 I wantall IM protocols supported Sep 17 21:09:41 and irc app Sep 17 21:10:18 Yep Sep 17 21:10:41 There is someone here who is alpha testing some plugins though Sep 17 21:10:54 MSN, Yahoo, ICQ, and FB chat Sep 17 21:11:04 Uses a service though... Sep 17 21:11:22 i want gadu-gadu support which is polish IM Sep 17 21:11:30 libpurple knows this protocol Sep 17 21:19:16 rick_home: congrats Sep 17 21:20:30 hm... my app catalog seems broken. when i click on an app, it just shows the circle loader but then shows a blue blank page Sep 17 21:20:39 They are updating the app catalog atm Sep 17 21:20:44 give it some time Sep 17 21:20:47 ok Sep 17 21:20:49 Notice the new aps? Sep 17 21:20:50 apps* Sep 17 21:20:52 yep Sep 17 21:21:04 Abyssul: hence "rick_home: congrats" Sep 17 21:21:15 Abyssul: though, this has not happened to me before Sep 17 21:21:25 Oh I didnt know what you were speaking in that regard Sep 17 21:21:33 What did Rick achieve? Sep 17 21:21:42 reversi in the catalog Sep 17 21:22:32 nice Sep 17 21:22:34 lol they already of ratings Sep 17 21:22:47 Abyssul: by default they start with 3 stars, i think Sep 17 21:22:49 you accidentally the whole thing? Sep 17 21:23:04 sugardave: yes, i accidentally the whole thing Sep 17 21:24:16 Rofl :) Sep 17 21:25:47 Oh wonderful, Palm Abandons Windows Mobile Sep 17 21:26:00 Abyssul: isnt that a good thing? Sep 17 21:26:10 reversi up in app catalog Sep 17 21:26:14 dot game up in app catalog Sep 17 21:26:16 I meant for it to be :p Sep 17 21:26:23 Rick_work: yeap congrats. Sep 17 21:26:33 Guess I should've used a ! instead of a comma Sep 17 21:26:35 although it's not letting me see the page. Sep 17 21:26:41 someone who isn't homebrew has a new chess game up Sep 17 21:26:45 this is game week Sep 17 21:26:55 yep, Sep 17 21:27:27 It's not letting me install it might have to restart after uninstalling the homebrew version? Sep 17 21:27:28 why does reversi have 3 stars at startup and dot game have 5???? Sep 17 21:27:31 I dont use the homebrew chess game, Not visually attractive Sep 17 21:27:38 pwned rick Sep 17 21:27:51 Guys? Will you please go give reversi some stars??? Pretty please? Sep 17 21:27:53 Don't worry we will all 5 star it Sep 17 21:28:00 the homebrew chess game sucks..... Sep 17 21:28:01 Indeed Sep 17 21:28:05 and I wrote it. Sep 17 21:28:09 Roflmao Sep 17 21:28:33 it was the second javascript app I ported to the pre... Sep 17 21:28:52 and as I came to realize how stupid the AI was, i decided to abandon work on it. So I never cleaned it up Sep 17 21:28:58 hmm Dot Game :p Sep 17 21:29:42 well ok, but I saw some video or other of you taking about porting these to the pre, we liked it Sep 17 21:29:59 so if that was checkers, at least we all learned from it :) Sep 17 21:30:03 fusion creative studios... has TWO games this week. Sep 17 21:30:29 epic tilt has 3 apps Sep 17 21:30:34 The presentation I did at PreDevCamp in KC was in fact on porting javascript apps, Sep 17 21:30:54 I like those games lol Sep 17 21:31:01 which games? Sep 17 21:31:07 Isnt it a "find whats wrong with the pictures" app? Sep 17 21:31:15 With comparing two images Sep 17 21:31:27 Or im just looking stupid Sep 17 21:31:28 Abyssul: perhaps, we'll see when the app catalog isnt broken anymore Sep 17 21:31:29 checkers was Kesne. (Jordan Gensler) -- I mentoredhim through that. Sep 17 21:31:53 I <3 Kesne Sep 17 21:32:06 and he made what I still think are serious errors.... (human player at the top, playing on the light squares, etc.) but he's _15 years old_ so, you gotta credit what he did. Sep 17 21:32:20 They better not use this whole beta thing forever like google does as a way to shrug off bugs. Sep 17 21:32:37 new version of app catalog in 1.2 Sep 17 21:32:42 Hes fixing it Rick :) Its on his to-do list Sep 17 21:33:02 I know, I talk to him almost every night. Sep 17 21:33:09 arrrrggghhh Sep 17 21:33:13 I talk to him everyday lol Sep 17 21:33:26 choose reversi -- blank blue screen. Sep 17 21:33:29 arrrrghhhhh Sep 17 21:34:45 It's for all the apps not just you. Sep 17 21:34:54 yeah Sep 17 21:35:08 * gkatsev -> home Sep 17 21:35:25 these guys need to learn how to update a database. SURELY this is all setting in a sql server... Sep 17 21:35:58 They might be using a commercial database for this stuff, but same idea. Sep 17 21:36:17 "beta" Sep 17 21:37:41 annoying Sep 17 21:37:43 annoying Sep 17 22:00:22 my "minder" at palm just escalated the app catalog blank screens to "hopefully the right person." Sep 17 22:00:47 with the closing "more later" ... Sep 17 22:03:49 well Sep 17 22:04:32 i'm going to europe next week Sep 17 22:04:38 and my pre wont work there :( Sep 17 22:04:46 i will miss my pre for a week Sep 17 22:08:45 it'd be neat of Sprint offered a VoIP service so that you can still make calls when you've got a wireless connection but no signal. Sep 17 22:08:52 but that's off-topic. Sep 17 22:16:17 with oracle aquiring sun, mysql might be a commercial database soon as well Sep 17 22:20:34 i see fceux made preware Sep 17 22:20:43 i can't get it to launch though it keeps saying mouse is unplugged :\ Sep 17 22:24:09 sampson: export SDL_VIDEODRIVER='directfb' Sep 17 22:26:28 hey PuffTheMagic whats going on Sep 17 22:26:30 any more luck? Sep 17 22:26:32 shouldn't you add that to the profile in the package? cool regardless Sep 17 22:26:44 PuffTheMagic: any luck with the button mapping? Sep 17 22:26:52 sportman: no, im trying to get fceux to work with the directfb on the pre Sep 17 22:27:23 oh there was another version of directfb? Sep 17 22:27:28 * sportman wasn't aware Sep 17 22:27:38 morning Sep 17 22:27:42 pre comes with directfb 1.1.0 Sep 17 22:27:49 and it has a special module for hidd input Sep 17 22:28:42 * rwhitby is missing out on the fceux fun - no i686 packages :-( Sep 17 22:29:10 rwhitby: i dont have a working emu setup right now so i cant test them for that yet Sep 17 22:29:18 rwhitby: whats the shipping looking like? Sep 17 22:29:39 how well does it run PuffTheMagic? i didn't take the time to set it up Sep 17 22:29:48 sampson: like shit Sep 17 22:29:51 well Sep 17 22:29:51 idk Sep 17 22:29:53 less than shit Sep 17 22:29:59 sorta useless with out keymappsing Sep 17 22:30:01 lol Sep 17 22:30:08 PuffTheMagic: put the rom in /media/internal Sep 17 22:30:13 then do fceux --inputcfg gamepad Sep 17 22:30:20 it will create a config Sep 17 22:30:21 you can put the rom anywhere Sep 17 22:30:27 and --inputcfg dont help Sep 17 22:30:51 http://proemulator.com/palm-pre/fceux/ worked for this one Sep 17 22:31:10 but you can't launch from terminal.app it appears Sep 17 22:31:27 that is not the same version Sep 17 22:31:40 looks slow as shit on there too though Sep 17 22:31:45 and im not using a debian chroot Sep 17 22:31:53 i'm aware Sep 17 22:31:59 but you should be able to do the same thing with novaterm Sep 17 22:32:03 Templarian: I expect it won't get here before I go on holidays on the 25th, so back on the 5th. Sep 17 22:32:05 since you have the libs and everything installed Sep 17 22:32:28 sampson: what are you talking about Sep 17 22:33:47 fceux "works" it runs the rom Sep 17 22:33:55 the keybindings dont though Sep 17 22:34:07 and i cant get them set properly Sep 17 22:34:42 PuffTheMagic: so have you got someone lined up to respond to the inevitable PreCentral thread asking about all this ;-) Sep 17 22:35:07 or is the plan just to ignore the aunt minnies? Sep 17 22:35:21 rwhitby: i dont bother my self with the going ons of PreCentra Sep 17 22:35:23 i reside here Sep 17 22:35:28 they can come here for questions Sep 17 22:36:00 PuffTheMagic: you might want to put support instructions in the description of the apps while we're waiting for the email link to be fixed in Preware ... Sep 17 22:37:31 what is wrong with the e-mail stuff? Sep 17 22:37:35 PuffTheMagic: when people ask questions in the Preware thread, should we give them your email address or just say that the sole support mechanism is this IRC channel? Sep 17 22:37:54 PuffTheMagic: is being parsed as a html tag by Preware on display Sep 17 22:37:59 i'd rather be contacted on IRC Sep 17 22:38:03 the feed is correct, Preware just needs fixing. Sep 17 22:38:24 ok, we'll respond to any questions in the Preware thread with your nick and this channel. Sep 17 22:38:34 np Sep 17 22:39:06 rwhitby: maybe an IRC field is needed in the feed :D Sep 17 22:39:11 PuffTheMagic: or should we just point to www.preyourmind.org to get some eyes there? Sep 17 22:39:26 or that Sep 17 22:39:35 PuffTheMagic: you can put an IRC web gateway as the Homepage for the packages ... Sep 17 22:39:37 the project nodes have my e-mail Sep 17 22:39:51 or list it on the homepage on preyourmind.org when you add that to the feed Sep 17 22:40:28 well i didnt realize e-mails werent working, didnt really see the need for including homepage if e-mail was there Sep 17 22:40:39 but if thats not working i can see why homepage might be desired Sep 17 22:40:56 yeah, hopefully we can fix the email quickly and push a new Preware. Sep 17 22:41:09 my javascript foo is not up to that level yet ... Sep 17 22:42:11 rwhitby: so about ipkgservice, C, and subscriptions Sep 17 22:42:31 PuffTheMagic: yeah, we'll have to talk about that later - time for me to head to work. Sep 17 22:42:38 ok no prob Sep 17 22:42:48 i will try and write down my idea Sep 17 22:42:55 so you can just read it at leisure Sep 17 22:44:40 sampson: the key mapping doesnt work even if you try to configure it Sep 17 22:44:44 actually the config part doesnt work Sep 17 22:44:44 :/ Sep 17 22:44:48 :( Sep 17 22:45:37 shrug i already deleted it after watching demo vids Sep 17 22:46:19 sampson: remember etherealremnant from osx86? Sep 17 22:46:24 i believe he also has a pre... Sep 17 22:46:28 nope Sep 17 22:46:32 ah nvm then Sep 17 22:46:33 lol Sep 17 22:46:58 i haven't really spent time playing with the pre yet Sep 17 22:47:07 the whole directfb approach turns me off Sep 17 22:47:12 yea? Sep 17 22:47:16 :/ Sep 17 22:47:20 so my pre Sep 17 22:47:23 no one has my phone number Sep 17 22:47:28 poor you Sep 17 22:47:28 I still dont get how people prefer filecoaster Sep 17 22:47:32 like no one Sep 17 22:47:40 cause im not giving it out till i get all my hacking out of the way Sep 17 22:47:40 lol Sep 17 22:47:40 sure it was the first, but it's pretty crappy, and hasn't improved much since inception Sep 17 22:48:07 DON'T TOUCH OR STEAL THE SOURCE K? Sep 17 22:48:13 or he'll go rms on your ass Sep 17 22:48:21 lol Sep 17 22:48:58 He tries, but yea over time it will probably fade away as Preware is getting all the feeds and features. Sep 17 22:49:28 is there a writeup on how luna functions? Sep 17 22:49:48 rms? Sep 17 22:49:55 richard m stallman Sep 17 22:50:02 *googles* Sep 17 22:50:15 the freetard who spends more time complaining about retarded bullshit and holds open source back Sep 17 22:50:21 founder of the free software foundation and the free software movement. Sep 17 22:50:32 yeah just found the wiki Sep 17 22:50:35 ...aaaand closed Sep 17 22:50:38 he had good points 20 years ago these days he's crap Sep 17 22:50:57 I don't know about that. Sep 17 22:51:12 i.e his recent mingw spergfit Sep 17 22:51:32 mingw's compiler had a -win32 flag and "by hacker parlance win means to win and we shouldn't give windows that right" Sep 17 22:52:02 The app catalog is being really weird today. like very touchy Sep 17 22:52:04 or his complaint over how Linux should be called GNU/Linux Sep 17 22:52:19 i didn't hear about the win32 thing. Sep 17 22:52:43 but he has a point that the vast majority of software in a distribution has nothing to do with Linus or his kernel. :| Sep 17 22:52:52 Temp: might be gettin ready for the update Sep 17 22:53:24 no it doesn't but if we're going to call it GNU/Linux might as well go all out and call it SDL/Apache/MySQL/PHP/Perl/GNU/Linux Sep 17 22:53:31 SAMPPGL for short Sep 17 22:53:44 AnOutsider: that's what I thought, but wouldn't you think the update would come right when it started glitching, it's been like this for the last few hours. Sep 17 22:54:52 the slippery slope argument doesn't exactly work. i mean given that 99% of the system is GNU, and that you can have a working system with just GNU software, and the Linux kernel.. (you don't need SDL, Apache, MySQL, Perl, PHP, or Python to have a functional distro. Sep 17 22:55:06 Azalyn: http://osdir.com/ml/gnu.mingw.devel/2008-06/msg00007.html if you got a hour to kill Sep 17 22:55:08 it seems more correct to call it GNU. Sep 17 22:55:13 AnOutsider: people like file coaster? Sep 17 22:55:23 basically everyone's like richard you are a tool and then mingw is like WE WILL DO WHATEVER GLORIOUS RMS SAYS!!! Sep 17 22:55:40 why would it be called GNU? because of a few tools that can be used on it even though alternatives exist? Sep 17 22:55:49 a few? :| Sep 17 22:56:31 he's just bitter because linus was able to do something he could never complete Sep 17 22:56:55 sportman: i guess i could try using 1.1.0 Sep 17 22:56:59 but i doubt that is the issue Sep 17 22:57:15 the entire system is GNU. Linux is just a kernel. by any measuring stick you use, whether it's lines of code, or individual programs, or whatever. the system is GNU. that is pretty much a fact. of course it has become 'common' to call it "linux", and i don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.. Sep 17 22:57:17 it's shorthand Sep 17 22:57:36 but in a professional context, i think it is appropriate to call it gnu. Sep 17 22:57:58 Azalyn: 99% of the system is not GNU Sep 17 22:58:18 the toolchain is Sep 17 22:58:20 But when you are talking in real life with real people (lets pretend that devs do this), they aren't going to say gnu very often. Sep 17 22:58:23 the only major components that linux "relies" on that are gnu are libc and gcc both of which has alternatives Sep 17 22:58:23 thats about it Sep 17 22:58:39 kernel uses klibc dont it? Sep 17 22:59:20 iirc you can use uClibc in place Sep 17 22:59:23 but i could be wrong Sep 17 22:59:31 android is technically linux. but we all know, that it isn't anything like a conventional distro, and not really compatible with anything. unless the app targets only the kernel syscalls. Sep 17 22:59:39 yeah you can Sep 17 23:00:05 Azalyn: android is very linux and just like every other distro Sep 17 23:00:14 so just "linux" is kind of ambiguous. "gnu/linux" is a platform. "linux" is a kernel. it's really that simple. Sep 17 23:00:14 idk where you get this from Sep 17 23:00:50 Linux referrs to both the kernel and the userland choices people use that run on top of the linux kernel Sep 17 23:00:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_%28operating_system%29#Criticisms Sep 17 23:01:12 oh boy, wikipedia quotes now Sep 17 23:01:15 also gnu userland is losing its place in linux due to idiots like drepper Sep 17 23:01:21 do you have a better source? :| Sep 17 23:01:36 people are getting as far away from libc as possible Sep 17 23:01:52 sampson: uh, no Sep 17 23:02:07 despite all the criticism against wikipedia, it is still more accurate a source than some random guy on irc, and even "professional" encyclopedias have had errors. Sep 17 23:02:38 Azalyn: why are you linking to an opinion section on wikipedia though Sep 17 23:02:38 PuffTheMagic: debian is switching to eglibc Sep 17 23:02:45 why do criticizms matter ehre Sep 17 23:02:49 ... Sep 17 23:02:54 did you even read it? Sep 17 23:03:01 sampson: and debian is gonna have to deal with massive fail Sep 17 23:03:08 it says "according to google" Sep 17 23:03:13 cause most apps reply on non-standard glibc stuff Sep 17 23:03:40 and debian is by no means "most people" Sep 17 23:03:49 eglibc is a library built ontop of libc Sep 17 23:04:02 it's a fork of gnu libc it seems. Sep 17 23:04:03 although yeah, drepper could potentially break eglibc compatibility Sep 17 23:04:12 but that's nothing new Sep 17 23:04:20 Azalyn: its still glibc Sep 17 23:04:25 i don't know why redhat hasn't fired his ass into the sun Sep 17 23:04:28 with "enhancements" Sep 17 23:04:30 which is odd.. are we going to just fork every gnu tool.. just to avoid having to hear to RMS asking us to call it "gnu" ? :| Sep 17 23:04:37 no it's not that Sep 17 23:04:50 it's a fork of libc because the maintainer of libc is a toolbag Sep 17 23:05:02 sampson: s/libc/glibc Sep 17 23:05:02 yea i doubt it too PuffTheMagic Sep 17 23:05:04 and ++ to that Sep 17 23:05:14 PuffTheMagic: the lady from the group that did PuffTheMagic dragon the soung Sep 17 23:05:16 *song Sep 17 23:05:17 she died today Sep 17 23:05:20 i'm not saying that we should say gnu all the time in casual conversation. but i am saying that his criticism is valid. Sep 17 23:05:20 most of the gnu devs are toolbags :D Sep 17 23:05:49 point is... the only thing about most userlands these days that is GNU is the toolchain Sep 17 23:05:57 glibc,binutils,coreutils,gcc Sep 17 23:06:03 just about evething else is non gnu Sep 17 23:06:10 linux is like one little component, it's very complex and necessary, but it's no more or less important than any of the other things in the system that are GNU. Sep 17 23:06:15 most of its freedesktop foundation Sep 17 23:06:22 hal, dbus, xorg Sep 17 23:06:25 udev is kernel.org Sep 17 23:06:29 before linux people used GNU with minix. Sep 17 23:06:39 and other kernels too i'd imagine.. Sep 17 23:06:44 i'll call it GNU when hurd comes out Sep 17 23:06:47 ... o wait Sep 17 23:06:55 what is the argument here? Sep 17 23:07:15 That the RMS hate is misdirected. At least in my opinion. Sep 17 23:07:22 RMS? Sep 17 23:07:29 richard stallman. :| Sep 17 23:07:42 brb Sep 17 23:07:51 idk who that is, and dont care really Sep 17 23:07:52 people think he's a zealot, and too "extreme" Sep 17 23:08:14 he's the one that started the free software foundation... and the free software movement.. and created the GPL. Sep 17 23:08:18 and the GNU project. Sep 17 23:08:18 :| Sep 17 23:08:28 my hate is aimed at the fact that he hasn't written a piece of code worth a shit in the last 20 years and wastes peoples time on mundane shit that doesn't matter and rides on the coat tails of something he started and is making free software licensing so restrictive that it's getting unusable by anyone who wants to make a profit Sep 17 23:09:04 for example the new gpl is incompatible with older gpls which restricts you from using unmaintained libraries & programs Sep 17 23:09:08 sampson: free software and profit shouldnt be used in the same sentence Sep 17 23:09:09 bbl Sep 17 23:09:22 :D Sep 17 23:09:22 well i profit from modifying free software sometimes Sep 17 23:09:27 i charge for modification Sep 17 23:09:38 i dont sell the software, like take a free cms thats open source Sep 17 23:09:41 rides on the coattails of something he *started* ? Sep 17 23:09:46 that is a total oxymoron. Sep 17 23:09:47 :| Sep 17 23:09:55 lets say the admin section is too complicated someone will pay me to make it more user friendly Sep 17 23:10:11 he has been homeless for how long now? Sep 17 23:10:19 the new GPL is fully compatible with the old GPL if you actually *used* the real GPLv2. Sep 17 23:10:26 which says "or any later version" Sep 17 23:10:27 sportman: theres nothing wrong with what you are doing. Many applications used by business now-a-days have open source parts in them. Sep 17 23:10:34 yea Sep 17 23:10:38 linux kernel uses a modified GPL, which is the only reason it's incompatible. Sep 17 23:10:53 i don't like v3 either though. Sep 17 23:11:05 but no one is forcing anyone at gunpoint to use it. Sep 17 23:11:28 and i don't see how the profit thing is a problem. Sep 17 23:12:27 People overlook that fact that most of the large open source projects are the results of large companies with large resources. Sep 17 23:12:38 I also used to think that maybe the FSF was holding us back. Sep 17 23:12:52 but recently, i've kind of realized that maybe they were right all along. Sep 17 23:13:06 whoa wtf Sep 17 23:13:10 i just went to updates Sep 17 23:13:13 anyone else watch the engadget show? Sep 17 23:13:19 and it asked me if i wated to update pandora and the mileage monitor Sep 17 23:13:22 i never saw that before Sep 17 23:13:36 Yea, I just updated those 30min ago. Sep 17 23:13:50 (just pandora and another app i forget what it was) Sep 17 23:13:53 i downloaded the new pandora.. anyone notice a change? Sep 17 23:14:09 see, with "opensource" we usually try to emphasize the technical advantages of free software, like better code, more maintainability, and so on.. Sep 17 23:14:19 Templarian: so palm autoupdates ipkg with out asking? Sep 17 23:14:21 wtf is that Sep 17 23:14:41 PuffTheMagic: they did? Sep 17 23:14:56 well they had to have pushed an update to the update program Sep 17 23:15:05 caus ei never saw any update in there besides a webos update Sep 17 23:15:06 back in the old days when win9x was around, this worked pretty well. but obviously, if proprietary systems are just inferior in a technical way, the company could just piss away money until they get something decent. today i still think linux is more stable/secure than windows.. Sep 17 23:15:14 PuffTheMagic: it always has Sep 17 23:15:14 but windows has gotten good 'enough' that no one cares. Sep 17 23:15:33 so by emphasizing technical advantages, we kind of got fucked in the end. Sep 17 23:15:46 Azalyn: hehe well said. Sep 17 23:16:04 sorry for the language. :| Sep 17 23:16:04 linux is great as a server os, i use it 100% with my company Sep 17 23:16:13 as a desktop os i'd rather claw my eyes out Sep 17 23:16:35 sampson: i've been using linux on desktop for 10 years now havent touched windows Sep 17 23:16:37 its perfect Sep 17 23:16:42 Windows Ultimate does come with "Subsystem for UNIX-based Applications" so. Sep 17 23:16:42 unless you live by adobe apps :D Sep 17 23:16:45 i use osx Sep 17 23:16:58 but yeah, if we emphasize the *freedoms* that you get with this kind of software, then that is something that proprietary vendors cannot compete with, unless they too put their software under a free (as in freedom) license. Sep 17 23:17:21 Microsofts is slowly pulling me on their end Server-Side also. They just keep getting better. Sep 17 23:17:34 so yeah, in that sense, i think the free software "zealots" that we've all been laughing at all these years... might have been on the right page all along. :\ Sep 17 23:17:46 i like iis and all but their command-line interface to their apps is convoluted at best Sep 17 23:17:56 Windows 7 is great. Sep 17 23:18:03 i use win7 on my stinkpad Sep 17 23:18:07 sampson: I just VM winodws. Sep 17 23:18:09 x200 supremacy Sep 17 23:18:14 windows* Sep 17 23:18:41 and one of the things that irks me about linux on the desktop: the drive for the acpi on this laptop is botched on this model which keeps the fan in overdrive 24/7 Sep 17 23:19:14 that usually isn't linux's fault though, sampson. Sep 17 23:19:16 I can't find any changes in pandora yet, might be just overlooking something. Sep 17 23:19:24 vendors are really horrible about complying with standards and specs. Sep 17 23:19:44 no it isn't but i don't want to have to do research to find THE LAPTOP that works Sep 17 23:19:58 Azalyn: not recently they haven't been. All drivers appear to be in the MS database even the old ones. Sep 17 23:20:01 Decimation: im gonna pretend you didnt just give props to win7 Sep 17 23:20:02 acpi was supposed to be a common spec for everyone to follow. but in the end, they deviate so much which causes problems. Sep 17 23:20:11 Decimation: it looks 99% like Kde4 Sep 17 23:20:16 PuffTheMagic: its a great operating system. Sep 17 23:20:18 PuffTheMagic, Decimation is obsesssed with microsoft. Sep 17 23:20:21 Palm allowed an app into the app catalog with the default "My Company" :-) Sep 17 23:20:23 i can tell Sep 17 23:20:26 SOmeone wasn't watching Sep 17 23:20:29 Decimation, you know what, you're a great operating system Sep 17 23:20:38 PuffTheMagic: but the difference is, i've never heard of Kde4 ;) Sep 17 23:20:42 os/2 ftw! Sep 17 23:20:47 Decimation: google it Sep 17 23:20:47 * zsoc chuckles Sep 17 23:20:48 Templarian: the whole point about acpi is you're not really supposed to have different drivers for each implementation.. it's supposed to be a standard. :| Sep 17 23:20:53 and you will see where win 7 came from LD Sep 17 23:21:07 i gotta say i like windows 7 and using kde4 i gotta say it's nothing like what kde4 is but more like what kde mocked up the 4 or 5 years ago when they were like PLASMA: THE FUTUREEEEE Sep 17 23:21:12 kde4 still blows total ass Sep 17 23:21:12 * zsoc has to boot with noapic for his usb ports to output power correctly Sep 17 23:21:31 * zsoc wonders if anyone actually USES KDE4 Sep 17 23:21:33 sampson: kde4 is awesome Sep 17 23:21:38 sampson:what is wrong with kde4 Sep 17 23:21:48 kde4 got me switched from gnome :D Sep 17 23:21:51 I hear bad things about kde4 from the hardcore linux people. Sep 17 23:22:05 I don't understand the point of a kde/gnome really.. maybe gnome if you're a minimalist Sep 17 23:22:11 (I don't use it other than friendly ubuntu so not sure) Sep 17 23:22:16 Templarian: you must be talking ot gnome fan boys Sep 17 23:22:29 the linux world is prety much split 40/40 Sep 17 23:22:30 Does Arch Linux use gnome? Sep 17 23:22:33 the context menu gets more convoluted with each revision Sep 17 23:22:37 the other 20 are e17 fans Sep 17 23:22:50 PuffTheMagic, don't forget fluxbox, and those that don't use a window manager like me Sep 17 23:22:52 er program menu* Sep 17 23:23:03 windows 7 is vista service pack 3. :| Sep 17 23:23:05 zsoc: sorry ..001% Sep 17 23:23:09 and wmii Sep 17 23:23:09 fluxbox is for minimalist zealots who should go back to their as/400s :P Sep 17 23:23:09 My bro doesn't have a GUI on his server and got made when I installed one. Sep 17 23:23:10 LD Sep 17 23:23:16 sampson: ++ Sep 17 23:23:23 Azalyn: that's so far from incorrect i'm not even going to explain why. Sep 17 23:23:25 sampson: althoug i used fluxbox on my car PC Sep 17 23:23:32 before i made my custom interface Sep 17 23:23:36 no, it's correct. Sep 17 23:23:37 heh Sep 17 23:23:42 Im watching a kde4 video PuffTheMagic: it doesn't look... smooth. Sep 17 23:23:54 Decimation: your video code sucks then Sep 17 23:23:56 blame windows :D Sep 17 23:24:00 * zsoc uses X.. with compiz and awm for a dock, and loads nautilus on boot Sep 17 23:24:19 im just gonna quote dis for a minute Sep 17 23:24:21 http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/supported_features.png Sep 17 23:24:29 If linux didn't take so much hacking and installing and reworking and editing to get it's UI ready for power users it wouldn't be so bad. Sep 17 23:24:30 Hey PuffTheMagic if i get unable to open mouse what should i do Sep 17 23:24:32 the biggest change in win7, is the fact that they *fixed* the problems in vista. and then they added a new taskbar, and that is pretty much it. there's dx11, but vista is getting that i believe. Sep 17 23:24:47 atlanta: update directfb Sep 17 23:24:47 :D Sep 17 23:24:52 atlanta: don't waste your time fceux is bullocks Sep 17 23:24:53 i just put out a new version Sep 17 23:24:58 wait for a few revisions Sep 17 23:25:00 with a fixed profile.d/50sdl Sep 17 23:25:15 although that file should be with sdl :D Sep 17 23:25:16 Azalyn: You forgot the fact that 64bit can use 32bit drivers (with the tons of other upgrades). Sep 17 23:25:17 Templarian, i honestly have no idea what you're talking about. even if you know nothing about linux, install Jaunty and 'ubuntu restricted extras' and you're basically set for the average user Sep 17 23:25:19 PuffTheMagic: how soon ago lol i just installed it 3 mins ago Sep 17 23:25:36 is that really a good thing? :| Sep 17 23:25:36 atlanta: cat /etc/profile.d/50sdl Sep 17 23:25:42 does it have export on that line Sep 17 23:25:42 khold Sep 17 23:25:42 sounds like another hack to me Sep 17 23:25:44 or no export Sep 17 23:25:49 So in win7, did they _update_ the dwm so it doesn't suck, or just redo the entire thing? Sep 17 23:26:03 zsoc: what is dwm? Sep 17 23:26:07 PuffTheMagic: ok exporting Sep 17 23:26:08 dynamic window manager Sep 17 23:26:17 sampson: whats that do? Sep 17 23:26:17 Templarian, the thing that always takes up 500MB+ at any time while Vista is idling Sep 17 23:26:24 Templarian: it manages windows. Sep 17 23:26:26 zsoc: ++ Ubunto for noobs, Arch for intermdiates, gentoo for guru's LD Sep 17 23:26:28 in windows he's talking about aero Sep 17 23:26:32 or gentoo for anyone that actually wants to learn linux Sep 17 23:26:38 Oh windows 7 uses like no ram at all. Sep 17 23:26:50 i hated that argument about vista Sep 17 23:26:54 PuffTheMagic, I didn't say I _use_ ubuntu :P was just pointing out how easy is it. Honestly, I'm a Debian guy, I really do like ipkg/apt Sep 17 23:26:56 Listen to Templarian guys, he knows his stuff :P Sep 17 23:26:58 it's frekaing CACHING it release ram as necessary Sep 17 23:27:01 er, dpkg Sep 17 23:27:05 PuffTheMagic: gentoo for obsessive people, and people who want to learn linux, debian for experts, arch for lazy experts, ubuntu for everybody else Sep 17 23:27:23 ubuntu is what all the ricers moved to Sep 17 23:27:35 PuffTheMagic: export gave a bad variable name error Sep 17 23:27:38 Mousey: debain != experts Sep 17 23:27:40 sampson, that could be offensive Sep 17 23:27:44 Well, i have 60 processes running, and my windows 7 is using just under a gig of ram Sep 17 23:27:45 PuffTheMagic: if you say so ^_^ Sep 17 23:27:49 out of my 8 gigs :P Sep 17 23:27:59 PuffTheMagic: then i did cat and it shows sdl_videodriver='directfb' Sep 17 23:27:59 Mousey: debian if you have aslow processor Sep 17 23:28:00 MY RAMS Sep 17 23:28:02 they're precious :3 Sep 17 23:28:06 debian if you are not a dev maybe Sep 17 23:28:09 sampson: about the flash video thing. that's yet another thing that isn't really linux's fault. for years adobe kept flash locked in a box. heh. people had worked on reverse engineering it, but it's only been relatively recently that they finally released some specs. Sep 17 23:28:09 Decimation: I would hope so I've been using Windows 7 since before it's been released and have updated twice. And I'm the typical power user 30 apps with tons of instances of each. I'm not nice to my machines. Sep 17 23:28:13 you dont have to be obsessive to run gentoo Sep 17 23:28:23 gentoo has the best package manager period Sep 17 23:28:23 but it's not like we can control what adobe does. Sep 17 23:28:30 and easiest to expand Sep 17 23:28:31 Templarian: I as well have had it for a LONGGG time. Sep 17 23:28:31 yeah i know it isn't linux's fault Sep 17 23:28:34 and you get just what you want Sep 17 23:28:35 if anything that is more proof not that linux is bad, but that proprietary vendors suck. Sep 17 23:28:36 but it's still annoying as an end-user Sep 17 23:28:43 about 5 different beta builds, the RC, and now the RTM Sep 17 23:28:45 which is why i said i use linux on my servers but not my workstation Sep 17 23:28:58 Decimation: Don't you like uptimes over over a month and a half without having to shut down. Sep 17 23:28:59 PuffTheMagic, please describe to me the advantages of emerge over apt :P Sep 17 23:29:03 because all it takes is one bad apple, to screw it up for everyone else. Sep 17 23:29:03 32bit flash is fine but in 64bit it blows Sep 17 23:29:03 PuffTheMagic: ok, meetya half way.. gentoo if you're an expert dev, debian if you're an expert sysadmin Sep 17 23:29:11 zsoc: have you SEEN my make flags Sep 17 23:29:21 --funroll-loops FOR GREAT FUN Sep 17 23:29:24 sampson, no, but i would love to :) Sep 17 23:29:25 Templarian: my computer doesn't get shut off :P Sep 17 23:29:30 zsoc: gentoo handles dependencies and multiple versions of the same package better than apt could ever dream of Sep 17 23:29:39 even microsoft has the same problem, which is why they came up with whql. and then made it *mandatory*. although in their case drm also had something to do with it. Sep 17 23:29:39 yeah until you get a cyclical dependancy error Sep 17 23:29:50 zsoc: and paludis is even better than emerge Sep 17 23:29:56 sampson: that was gentoo 1.4 Sep 17 23:29:59 Decimation: I'm on a laptop and I once in a great time need to restart because some people don't know how to code installers for windows 7. Sep 17 23:29:59 like 8 years ago Sep 17 23:30:02 not new emerge Sep 17 23:30:07 i haven't used gentoo since 2004 so *shrug* Sep 17 23:30:23 i use centos on my servers and osx + ports for my work computer Sep 17 23:30:27 I'm using gentoo now Sep 17 23:30:30 sampson: if you cant get past a cyclical error then you have issues Sep 17 23:30:32 PuffTheMagic: did u see what i put Sep 17 23:30:33 Templarian: yeah, lol. Sep 17 23:30:39 i can but they were annoying Sep 17 23:30:41 maybe Sep 17 23:30:44 You should never have to restart an operating system unless you are building a module into the kernel, seriously. Sep 17 23:30:54 or if there is a windows update that requires a restart, but there isnt a lot of that yet. Sep 17 23:30:59 zsoc: Yea, I don't understand some people. Sep 17 23:31:07 the compiling can be annoying sometimes Sep 17 23:31:12 Decimation: they do it around once a month. Sep 17 23:31:13 PuffTheMagic: it has SDL_VIDEODRIVER='directdb' Sep 17 23:31:19 http://screensnapr.com/u/u175y2.png Sep 17 23:31:21 its beautiful Sep 17 23:31:22 atlanta: then update Sep 17 23:31:28 which one Sep 17 23:31:33 latest should have export SDL_VIDEODRIVER='directfb' Sep 17 23:31:37 atlanta: directfb Sep 17 23:31:42 people actually use start+tab? O_O Sep 17 23:31:47 ok Sep 17 23:31:51 Decimation, lol, there's nothing pretty about that. Sep 17 23:32:03 sampson: I do it's still smooth with 30 apps Sep 17 23:32:14 * zsoc has ctrl+alt+left/right'd since 2004 Sep 17 23:32:16 zsoc: you have to be joking. Sep 17 23:32:20 Decimation: same here Sep 17 23:32:23 alt+tab for life Sep 17 23:32:43 sampson: on just click the app. The thumbnails are really convient. Sep 17 23:32:59 Decimation, compositing in linux is light years ahead of anything anywhere else. ask Novell Sep 17 23:33:04 alt+tab ctrl+tab it's too easy i hat emice Sep 17 23:33:06 Especially with a couple explorers. Sep 17 23:33:08 zsoc: http://screensnapr.com/u/p9bj0s.png ITS BEAUTIFUL. Sep 17 23:33:33 Decimation: linux did that 3 years ago Sep 17 23:33:35 if not more Sep 17 23:33:37 and does it better Sep 17 23:33:42 sampson: set your dpi to like 1k so you only have to move an inch circle. Sep 17 23:33:43 and that is a clone of kde4 + compiz Sep 17 23:33:45 compiz is such a power hog Sep 17 23:33:52 Decimation: windows couldnt come up with that on their own Sep 17 23:33:53 mmm compiz Sep 17 23:34:00 chicks dig my kde4+compiz Sep 17 23:34:06 but i turn it off for gaming Sep 17 23:34:07 but they did it better. Sep 17 23:34:11 Decimation, lol. i can keep windows behind other windows, literally on the other side of them. i can handle 32 virtual desktops on a 1.7ghz processor and a 64mb video card. Sep 17 23:34:12 Decimation: no Sep 17 23:34:17 Decimation: not not better Sep 17 23:34:22 its equal or worse Sep 17 23:34:38 Decimation: do you have wobbly windows? do you have 3d cube for virtual works spaces? Sep 17 23:34:40 :D Sep 17 23:34:40 videos made it look laggy. Sep 17 23:34:42 PuffTheMagic: when you start fceux from within Luna, does it actually display the game? Sep 17 23:34:50 PuffTheMagic: 3d cylinder here Sep 17 23:34:52 Decimation: could have been a shitty box Sep 17 23:34:54 That's one thing we didn't mention when all you guys dual boot to open up a game Windows 7 is so much smoother for gaming. Games alt+tab instantly now with no sluggish lag. Sep 17 23:34:56 PuffTheMagic: all can be done on windows. Sep 17 23:34:59 I hear choppy sound and get a flashing black window with a mouse cursor in it Sep 17 23:35:05 PuffTheMagic: with whales and sharks swimming inside Sep 17 23:35:09 PuffTheMagic: across two monitors Sep 17 23:35:15 Mousey: ++ Sep 17 23:35:15 with 15 apps open Sep 17 23:35:17 Decimation: That's to easy. Sep 17 23:35:19 Decimation: dont know what hes missing Sep 17 23:35:35 Decimation: lolwindows Sep 17 23:35:36 PuffTheMagic: the answer would be nothing. hehe. Sep 17 23:35:44 I'm dual booting ubuntu :P Sep 17 23:35:46 oh AND expo AND sliding, and window scaling Sep 17 23:35:57 Decimation, your mom is dual booting ubuntu, admit it, you're behind the times Sep 17 23:35:58 Decimation: i wouldnt brag about that Sep 17 23:36:02 you know you can tote compiz as being the god of x but let's remember how long it took to get stable and have something worth a shit past making it snow on your screen??? Sep 17 23:36:04 Decimation: esp that windows part Sep 17 23:36:06 * zsoc was just about to take a screenshot of expo Sep 17 23:36:06 :D Sep 17 23:36:18 don't forget, im using my linux powered phone, its not like i HATE windows. Sep 17 23:36:21 sampson, and.. what? it's hella stable now Sep 17 23:36:23 and if we're going to dick ride window managers i'm just gonna throw aqua out there Sep 17 23:36:23 sampson: hell of a lot shorter time than it's taking apple and windows to respond Sep 17 23:36:32 although i have a feeling windows mobile 7 will be amazing. Sep 17 23:36:33 because it did all of that years before compiz got remotely stable Sep 17 23:36:36 sampson: it was still stable before M$ dreamed of it Sep 17 23:36:42 expose? where did linux get that from? Sep 17 23:36:45 fsck aqua, it stole ALL its effects from compiz Sep 17 23:36:50 Microsoft and Apple both want to do it. They would love nothing more than to eyecandy away Sep 17 23:36:51 Decimation: you really need to leave here with all this windows hype! Sep 17 23:36:54 haha Sep 17 23:37:00 this is a linux room! Sep 17 23:37:02 PuffTheMagic: id you juse use a $ for a "Soft"... really? Sep 17 23:37:05 pre == linux! Sep 17 23:37:07 did* Sep 17 23:37:17 PuffTheMagic: cmon, you've seen the zuneHD UI, right? Sep 17 23:37:25 Templarian: you never seen it like M$ Sep 17 23:37:27 :D Sep 17 23:37:27 lolzune Sep 17 23:37:29 expose was announced at one of those apple conventions and then compiz had a plugin written to mimic it Sep 17 23:37:31 Pre = linux... nodnod. Sep 17 23:37:51 just gonna say that osx had it stable *whistles innocently* Sep 17 23:37:51 Pre=linux + yet-another-gl-window-manager Sep 17 23:37:52 ^_^ Sep 17 23:37:52 Decimation: see rick_home says tyou need to shut up abotu win7 Sep 17 23:37:53 :D Sep 17 23:38:03 apple and ms are lucky to even have ONE Sep 17 23:38:04 sampson, expose != expo Sep 17 23:38:09 The Zunes interface makes me jealous when using the Pre. Makes me think I'm going to have a Windows Mobile 7 phone. Sep 17 23:38:18 but Rick did not say that Sep 17 23:38:20 "M$" - that's so 2000 :P Sep 17 23:38:22 Rick _likes_ windows Sep 17 23:38:30 yah, expose = scale Sep 17 23:38:30 Templarian: don't waste your time... i had a touch pro fucking garbage Sep 17 23:38:34 Rick dual boots ubunto with compiz and prefers win7 most of the time Sep 17 23:38:40 if winmo wasn't full of garbage, i wouldn't be here right now :P Sep 17 23:38:45 Why? Because THE SOFTWARE I NEED TO RUN IS NOT AVAILABLE ON LINUX Sep 17 23:38:48 so ther. Sep 17 23:38:49 Ha. Sep 17 23:38:54 rick_home, like what? Sep 17 23:38:57 yeah when's linux getting exchange 2007 support Sep 17 23:38:58 sampson: That was a horrible phone. Sep 17 23:38:59 Templarian: if ms makes a phone with the zune HD UI, im in/ Sep 17 23:39:03 osx even has native support Sep 17 23:39:07 * zsoc can't think of any software he needs that he can't run Sep 17 23:39:20 i will never purchase another HTC phone Sep 17 23:39:24 mogul & touch pro were god awful Sep 17 23:39:26 as was the apache Sep 17 23:39:36 rick_home: sounds like you need to talk to your software vendor about why they're behind the times Sep 17 23:39:44 sampson: it's called evolution Sep 17 23:39:44 zsoc isn't developing software for commercial clients who run windows to run their businesses. zsoc doesn't write accounting software. Sep 17 23:39:46 Decimation: it would need a different UI, but along those lines yes. Like I said if I get full .net theres nothing stopping me from getting one. Sep 17 23:39:57 evolution does not support 2007 only 2003 Sep 17 23:40:09 exchange doesn't support imap?! Sep 17 23:40:09 Templarian: http://www.viddler.com/explore/engadget/videos/626/ - i don't see a thing wrong with it. Sep 17 23:40:14 rick_home, correct, but you're the _exception_, most people don't develop windows software :P Sep 17 23:40:23 Mousey: Name one major mid-range accounting system available on Linux. Sep 17 23:40:26 i need my calendar and contacts synced across my computers and phone Sep 17 23:40:27 peachtree Sep 17 23:40:28 Development on Windows trumps other systems 10x over. Sep 17 23:40:31 sampson: i had the mogul, i went from the mogul to the pre Sep 17 23:40:36 hence my love for the pre Sep 17 23:40:39 sugar Sep 17 23:40:42 peachtree is not a major mid range accounting system. Sep 17 23:40:44 tho technically that'c CRM Sep 17 23:40:46 i went mogul > centro > touchpro > centro > pre Sep 17 23:40:48 peachtree is low end. Sep 17 23:40:49 Templarian: no kidding :P Sep 17 23:40:51 * gkatsev prefers dev on linux but entertainment on windows Sep 17 23:40:58 quicken runs great under wine Sep 17 23:41:01 you guys have been talking about this for a while. #webos-watercooler? :p Sep 17 23:41:07 lol @ development on windows comment. If you're developing FOR windows, of course it's going to work better ON windows. Sep 17 23:41:12 * Mousey finds Steam games work fine under linux Sep 17 23:41:16 and while i'm here, anyone that cares I updated http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Linux_Tutorial_Irssi to include how to use bitlbee now so anyone that runs irssi can also use jabber/aim/msn/yahoo natively Sep 17 23:41:19 zsoc, I have no choice. Sep 17 23:41:21 you'll find me in TF2 a lot with a debian icon Sep 17 23:41:25 office should work fine under wine as well Sep 17 23:41:26 ======================================= Everyone to #webos-watercooler ===================================== Sep 17 23:41:29 rick_home, i'm not blaming you mate :) Sep 17 23:41:29 lol Sep 17 23:41:31 only one problem i see with the zuneHD and thats most likely going to be fixed. Sep 17 23:41:39 yeah sure gkatsev with hideous fonts Sep 17 23:41:39 I used to play TF2 in wine also. Sep 17 23:41:57 wine is a really amazing project. heh Sep 17 23:41:59 Great Plains, Sage, MAS-90, Pro, Platinum, Accpac, all the big name mid range accounting systems, NONE Of them have a linux client. Sep 17 23:41:59 i have since orange box was released Sep 17 23:42:08 MAS-90 is for linux Sep 17 23:42:16 check again Sep 17 23:42:31 it's taken them awhile, but in a year or two they will be completely synced with redmond. Sep 17 23:42:37 Mousey, try again yourself. The client is buggy, restricted, and unsupported. Sep 17 23:42:52 aah, so now you're picky Sep 17 23:43:02 was anyone in here making a GUI IRC client? Sep 17 23:43:03 Mousey, I make my house payment this way. Sep 17 23:43:04 you said for linux! =P Sep 17 23:43:05 i am friends with one of the winedevs Sep 17 23:43:11 wine is nothing but a clusterfuck Sep 17 23:43:12 rick_home: ah, i see the problem Sep 17 23:43:18 GUI IRC is a loverly idea. Sep 17 23:43:23 they spend more time uncommiting patches than commiting Sep 17 23:43:35 sampson: bless their souls Sep 17 23:43:41 better to have no bad patches than bad patches Sep 17 23:43:44 if someone had come up to me ten years ago and said that we'd have a nearly functional windows clone running on top of linux in the future. Sep 17 23:43:48 i'd have called them crazy :| Sep 17 23:43:59 from what i've been told the webos sdk doesn't support the sockets necessary for irc Sep 17 23:44:02 no you call them maggots! Sep 17 23:44:07 * Mousey dons soldier helmet Sep 17 23:44:08 XD Sep 17 23:44:10 so you would have to do a service from scratch Sep 17 23:44:16 Virtual box is a functional windows clone :D :> Sep 17 23:44:19 so when is gtk going to get un-hideous Sep 17 23:44:20 need a teleporter here. Sep 17 23:44:24 ten years from now? Sep 17 23:44:25 lol, yah Sep 17 23:44:26 punzada: it doesn't Sep 17 23:44:35 punzada: we should start packaging some of the stuff you are writing tutorials about into Preware Sep 17 23:44:36 so, we run an irc service that luna talks to Sep 17 23:44:36 ten years from now.. windows? like to see out of? Sep 17 23:44:38 * zsoc notices windows runs smoother on his virtual box under linux than natively on his laptop Sep 17 23:44:39 zsoc: no, virtualbox is a functional virtual system that can run windows Sep 17 23:44:43 that soldier is a spy. :O Sep 17 23:44:46 punzada: perhaps you could tie into libpurple? since it supports irc Sep 17 23:44:55 gkatsev: that is an idea Sep 17 23:44:56 destinal: thanks for clarity Sep 17 23:44:58 destinal, i realize this, but i was quoting against what he was referring to ;) thank you anyway for the clarification Sep 17 23:45:02 hehe Sep 17 23:45:32 Wasn't there an issue with libpurple? Sep 17 23:45:46 gkatsev: that's what we've been planning Sep 17 23:45:47 yeah that it's unstable Sep 17 23:45:48 yes, no graphical client Sep 17 23:45:49 rwhitby: would probably be a good idea, only packages I've used are irssi, screen and bitlbee with whatever dependencies so shouldn't be too hard Sep 17 23:45:56 destinal: ok, i dont know whats been going on Sep 17 23:45:58 * Mousey would love him some jabber client Sep 17 23:46:02 heh - the signal to noise here hasn't improved during my whole commute to work :-) Sep 17 23:46:08 virtualbox is nothing like wine though. Sep 17 23:46:17 * Mousey will by two cases of b33r for the developer of the first working one he finds on preware Sep 17 23:46:19 gkatsev: greg_roll has other plugins working in libpurple on pre Sep 17 23:46:19 i started a rant about linux on the desktop :( sorry Sep 17 23:46:38 * Mousey LOVES linux on the desktop Sep 17 23:46:40 gkatsev: so we just need to configure the plugin right and make a mojo client for the service Sep 17 23:46:47 i tried using windows again after LOD.. i can't Sep 17 23:46:47 sweet Sep 17 23:46:59 it's such fail Sep 17 23:46:59 wine is a windows rewrite. (the libraries and some of the apps used by third party apps, not *everything*) Sep 17 23:47:00 I have a feeling that the messaging app isn't the best thing for it :) Sep 17 23:47:20 though it could technically work Sep 17 23:47:36 Mousey: LOD? Sep 17 23:47:37 which is why in theory, wine could get native performance eventually. or even better. Sep 17 23:47:42 linux on desktop Sep 17 23:47:50 watercooler! Sep 17 23:47:53 WINE is not an emulator :D Sep 17 23:48:01 oh, well linux = linux. Sep 17 23:48:02 tlp totally Sep 17 23:48:02 Wine Is Not an Emula.. yah Sep 17 23:48:12 anyways back to important shit... is there a writeup yet on luna Sep 17 23:48:18 Wine Is Not an Ewok Sep 17 23:48:24 the linux that runs my NSLU2 and the linux that run my phone, SAME LINUX!! ^_^ Sep 17 23:48:28 sampson: a writeup on luna? Sep 17 23:48:36 Mousey: same optware packages too :-) Sep 17 23:48:42 how it functions and how mojo hooks into it Sep 17 23:48:45 sampson: may as well ask for a writeup on gnome Sep 17 23:48:47 oh, also the same that runs my Nokia N810 Sep 17 23:48:49 >:[ Sep 17 23:48:54 Mousey: same hardware running the websites too :-) Sep 17 23:49:05 the linux on my pre is sexy. Sep 17 23:49:14 luna is a system, and a totally proprietary / closed source one at that Sep 17 23:49:20 destinal: i'd give you a long writeup on gnome, but it would be mostly how it sucks compared to KDE, and how it used to be so much cooler Sep 17 23:49:22 I feel like I"m not being useful. someone give me something useful to do. Sep 17 23:49:40 yes but you should be able to get an idea of how it interacts with the pre based off mojo considering mojo hooks into it Sep 17 23:49:40 zsoc: what are you good at> Sep 17 23:49:44 zsoc: jabber client == FREE BEER Sep 17 23:49:55 Mousey, how much is a case? Sep 17 23:49:57 mojo frontend for mplayer! Sep 17 23:50:04 zsoc: depends on the beer you like Sep 17 23:50:18 how about a nice mythtv network remote control Sep 17 23:50:25 Mousey: uh, jabber is already in webos, yeah? Sep 17 23:50:29 how about a nice xchat Sep 17 23:50:38 destinal: no, i cannot specify my own jabber server(s) Sep 17 23:50:45 like the one here at work, or the one i run at home Sep 17 23:50:47 oh, well the XMPP service should work I imagine Sep 17 23:50:50 google works, so it's WRITTEN Sep 17 23:50:54 it has xmpp in it Sep 17 23:50:57 the palm profile uses xmpp Sep 17 23:51:07 but no way to SPECIFY server, therefore, functionally; no jabber client! ;_; Sep 17 23:51:21 xchat would require the dfbadapter Sep 17 23:51:47 running X stuff in luna is like running X stuff in OSX Sep 17 23:51:53 oh Sep 17 23:51:54 ew Sep 17 23:51:55 yeah, great to have it when you can run something no other way Sep 17 23:52:03 meh, xchat isn't a good fit for the Pre Sep 17 23:52:03 FINCH!! Sep 17 23:52:11 destinal, atleast OSX has an X in it Sep 17 23:52:14 but it'll never feel totally native Sep 17 23:52:15 tlp, i agree.. irc on the pre even seems like a stretch Sep 17 23:52:20 or optimal for that platform Sep 17 23:52:22 nah, I think it'd be fine Sep 17 23:52:22 wait, i thought osx emulates x on top of quartz or whatever Sep 17 23:52:23 zsoc: not really Sep 17 23:52:33 Azalyn: yah, its their own implementation Sep 17 23:52:37 give the pre a few months... by .5 the apis should be more robust Sep 17 23:52:39 but you've gotta design it with webOS guidelines in mind Sep 17 23:52:44 but the dfbadapter wouldn't be like that Sep 17 23:52:58 Azalyn: I'm talking about look/feel Sep 17 23:52:59 I even drew out a UI sketch for a webOS IRC client before realizing there's no TCP/IP support Sep 17 23:53:13 Mousey, no, it DEFINITELY has an X in it. Sep 17 23:53:13 well.. i guess. Sep 17 23:53:18 your app would run in a card Sep 17 23:53:45 * zsoc plays muds in the terminal app, works fine. Sep 17 23:54:05 you could have one scene with a list of all of your networks/channels/queries, and when you tap one of them it slides over to the channel/query in question Sep 17 23:54:16 i'm rocking the 4x6 font in my terminal Sep 17 23:54:21 very tiny Sep 17 23:54:22 hehe Sep 17 23:54:22 then a simple swipe with the back gesture lets you pick another channel Sep 17 23:54:27 tlp: well your UI sketch is still potentially useful Sep 17 23:54:39 when i'm on with irssi, the chat buffer almost looks bigger than it does here. :| Sep 17 23:54:49 i can still read fine though. Sep 17 23:54:54 tlp: it'll still be a mojo app, just handling stuff at a higher level Sep 17 23:55:03 yeah Sep 17 23:55:15 how do you get the terminal in 4x6??!?!?! Sep 17 23:55:21 * Mousey is so n00b Sep 17 23:55:27 you click on 'terminal Sep 17 23:55:30 at the top right Sep 17 23:55:31 noooo Sep 17 23:55:32 err Sep 17 23:55:33 left Sep 17 23:55:35 it's really that easy Sep 17 23:55:38 i'm so retarded Sep 17 23:55:49 :P Sep 17 23:56:00 it's ok, so am i. Sep 17 23:56:09 about other stuff though Sep 17 23:56:13 oh holy cow Sep 17 23:56:21 tiny eh? Sep 17 23:56:22 Mousey: It's a real live webos app, even if it's not perfect, it's pretty decent :) Sep 17 23:56:32 i might actually use this for irssi now.. and i'm certainly tryna get finch going Sep 17 23:56:35 standard look and feel Sep 17 23:56:41 tho a gui version would be so much more appreciated Sep 17 23:56:48 it'll take time Sep 17 23:56:57 i think someone is working on it Sep 17 23:57:00 oh hell, if someone would just hack the chat that's already in there (it does google already) like they remixed the music app Sep 17 23:57:03 maybe puff or something Sep 17 23:57:04 my problem with irssi in the terminal is that it's so slow, constantly flashing and whatnot. Sep 17 23:57:04 i forgot Sep 17 23:57:10 is it that much? Sep 17 23:57:11 especially with ssh thrown in Sep 17 23:57:15 tlp: on evdo? Sep 17 23:57:19 yeah Sep 17 23:57:22 i've used it only on wifi so far Sep 17 23:57:24 so i don't know Sep 17 23:57:46 what do people do for audio books on the pre? no in-track seek or bookmark really sucks Sep 17 23:58:04 there's an audio app that supports bookmarks IIRC Sep 17 23:58:21 but in-track seek is really the more important of the two Sep 17 23:58:33 you can do that with Music (Remix) Sep 17 23:59:40 cool. Sep 17 23:59:44 * destinal loads up preware Sep 18 00:00:18 I slid it up in place of the regular Music app Sep 18 00:00:24 can't someone just put another button in the messaging program under Add an Account for Other Jabber Server Sep 18 00:00:27 *sigh* Sep 18 00:00:28 ahh, Remix does bookmarks too Sep 18 00:00:33 speaking of remix Sep 18 00:00:38 you know, yesterday when i novacom'd into my pre. i did the optware bootstrap.. but later when i installed preware.. i realized that those apps are are in preware. :\ Sep 18 00:00:50 tlp: did he write it from scratch, or are there copyright issues there? Sep 18 00:00:55 and it tells me "if you installed the bootstrap script, don't install this" Sep 18 00:01:04 destinal: definitely looks like a hack on the original Sep 18 00:01:10 of* Sep 18 00:01:23 which kind of sucks, because i imagine that if i had installed it through preware, it would give me updates and such Sep 18 00:01:24 that UI wouldn't be hard to duplicate though Sep 18 00:01:40 so now i'm not sure what to do Sep 18 00:02:07 hmm, I'm so far behind on preware that I'm accessing a feed that no longer exists and just spinning at "loading" Sep 18 00:02:07 wow Sep 18 00:02:30 it's come along quite a bit Sep 18 00:03:27 destinal: rm /var/etc/ipkg/preware.conf Sep 18 00:03:36 I should get ipkgservice to do that automatically. Sep 18 00:04:11 Azalyn: the ones in preware are still in alpha testing. Sep 18 00:04:18 oh Sep 18 00:04:21 hm Sep 18 00:04:36 ok, good. because i thought i did it wrong or something Sep 18 00:06:09 Azalyn: eventually, the instructions will be updated to just use the packages, but we need to get dependencies working properly in Preware first. Sep 18 00:06:40 PuffTheMagic: u got a good place for roms? Sep 18 00:07:00 btw, THANK YOU FOR PREWARE Sep 18 00:07:04 cant find my ext harddrive Sep 18 00:07:20 ah, alright. Sep 18 00:09:29 oh they fixed the app catalog yey Sep 18 00:09:54 yea Sep 18 00:09:59 120 downloads Sep 18 00:10:07 of what? Sep 18 00:10:08 Oil I'll go give you 5 if you'll give ME 5 Sep 18 00:10:10 teh app catalog was broken? Sep 18 00:10:12 Reversi Sep 18 00:10:17 rick_home: i see Sep 18 00:10:20 never played with it Sep 18 00:10:22 yes Mousey since about 3 PM central US Sep 18 00:10:32 ah Sep 18 00:11:29 i just finished watching the engadget show with rubinstein Sep 18 00:12:04 i should get that Sep 18 00:12:10 en0x: was it good? Sep 18 00:12:24 yap Sep 18 00:12:33 cool Sep 18 00:12:37 interesting to watch not a lot technical Sep 18 00:12:39 holy cow! the app count went up by 50! Sep 18 00:12:40 but interesting Sep 18 00:13:23 app count is 83, says chuq Sep 18 00:13:40 and what's the install limit? Sep 18 00:13:55 though, if you click on recent it will only index 50... which is stupid Sep 18 00:14:00 rwhitby: 50? Sep 18 00:14:28 I think he means 15 Sep 18 00:14:50 oh what a bummer Sep 18 00:14:56 they put ads on TipCalc Sep 18 00:14:57 :S Sep 18 00:14:57 THEMES!!! Sep 18 00:15:02 :| Sep 18 00:15:05 god you guys rock so much!! *sniff* Sep 18 00:15:11 en0x: just go in and comment them out. :D Sep 18 00:15:15 Mousey, they know Sep 18 00:15:21 rwhitby: theme didnt uninstal right in 1.2 Sep 18 00:15:22 :P Sep 18 00:15:27 gkatsev: no i'm not gonna use it Sep 18 00:15:30 i'm good inn math Sep 18 00:15:31 ;] Sep 18 00:15:31 lol Sep 18 00:15:37 Decimation: -> AnOutsider_AFK :-) Sep 18 00:15:45 yeah, regular calculator is good enough Sep 18 00:16:18 yap Sep 18 00:16:44 hello internet Sep 18 00:17:14 hello america Sep 18 00:17:14 hello user Sep 18 00:18:19 chrisa: are you a theming type of guy? Sep 18 00:18:38 Anyone on the conference call today? I'm still wrapping my head around "823,000 units shipped", not sure what that even means. 500,000 Pres? Sep 18 00:18:55 300 pres, the rest are centros Sep 18 00:18:59 hehe Sep 18 00:19:05 rwhitby: quick question Sep 18 00:19:18 lol, plus shipped != sales, I know many many stores with tons of pres hanging around Sep 18 00:19:18 zsoc: vast majority were pres Sep 18 00:19:19 hello Sep 18 00:19:20 will there will be a way to disable themes in preware? :P Sep 18 00:19:24 According to the release Sep 18 00:19:33 en0x: i imagine don't install them? Sep 18 00:19:37 rwhitby: I end up hating most thems I find Sep 18 00:19:37 nope Sep 18 00:19:41 en0x: or do you mean listing them Sep 18 00:19:43 chrisa, that's very clarifying, thanks :P :D Sep 18 00:19:54 you could take the themes repo out of the preware.conf i imagine Sep 18 00:20:00 well i dont even want them to show up on main screen of preware Sep 18 00:20:00 en0x: just select the preference to show all application types, and then choose the Application type instead of the Theme type. Sep 18 00:20:06 I'm only curious how you guys are doing the bootloader image Sep 18 00:20:13 what rwhitby said Sep 18 00:20:13 en0x: check the preferences Sep 18 00:20:20 The 'blue' theme is quite nice Sep 18 00:20:31 now all i need is a theme randomizer Sep 18 00:20:51 That's is by far the oddest question chris has asked in here :> Sep 18 00:21:05 well its better but still Sep 18 00:21:06 :p Sep 18 00:21:06 does it actually do the bootloader image? Sep 18 00:21:13 i dont want it in list of everything Sep 18 00:21:16 chrisa: I don't think it's the bootloader image, just the luna startup Sep 18 00:21:30 Right, it's just the luna startup, I knew it was a simple answer Sep 18 00:21:36 en0x: have you added your feature suggestion to the wiki talk page? Sep 18 00:21:46 nope Sep 18 00:21:50 i'm going to do it now Sep 18 00:21:54 like right now Sep 18 00:21:55 ;] Sep 18 00:22:00 literally hehehe Sep 18 00:22:05 cool. it's on the roadmap :-) Sep 18 00:22:13 function before form Sep 18 00:23:19 r0tfl Sep 18 00:23:27 engadgets makes fun of att Sep 18 00:23:34 in the show Sep 18 00:23:43 * zsoc prefers form before function, maybe that's why he'd rather write ui's than core :) Sep 18 00:23:46 lol att is terrible in the city but at least it drops your call Sep 18 00:23:47 hehe Sep 18 00:23:50 they make fun of nokia too. Sep 18 00:24:01 Anyone have a clue what bitrate Pandora uses? Sep 18 00:24:01 THEIR SPONSER Sep 18 00:24:10 * zsoc notes that although he doesn't like att, they work considerably better in his area than any other major carrier Sep 18 00:24:23 tlp i was fairly positive it was 128 Sep 18 00:24:30 hmm Sep 18 00:24:40 tlp, although the blackberry app has an option for "low" which i'm pretty sure is 96 Sep 18 00:24:41 even the mobile one? Sep 18 00:24:56 I'm having trouble making Ampache Mobile do 64 over EVDO Sep 18 00:25:02 gotta be, i would hear anything lower than 128, and i use pandora with audio out all the time Sep 18 00:25:09 do they use mp3? Sep 18 00:25:22 now that i don't know... Sep 18 00:25:32 some codecs can produce pretty high quality at low bitrates Sep 18 00:25:46 true, or your home networks upload rate is terrible ;) Sep 18 00:25:56 haha, nah, I stream 320kbps stuff Sep 18 00:26:09 the pandora app has a toggle for stream quality in their pre app Sep 18 00:26:11 Looks like Palm had a great quarter, I'm just concerned about next quarter... although they have the pixi coming. Sep 18 00:26:17 Mousey, thank you, i didn't notice that :) Sep 18 00:26:19 whoa, really? I haven't noticed Sep 18 00:26:27 iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiits in there! Sep 18 00:27:11 zsoc: pre is still in its sales infancy, it's on one carrier in one country Sep 18 00:27:33 zsoc: and they going to europe Sep 18 00:27:34 chrisa, that is very true, i keep thinking 1 dimensionally. It'll explode when it gets to att/verizon Sep 18 00:27:38 so it will be better Sep 18 00:28:17 I have no idea about these ehteeandtees and vorizons Sep 18 00:28:32 wow, preware reports >> 247 << available apps (not counting terminal or preware, already installed) Sep 18 00:28:33 I'm honestly surprised it's done so well on sprint, but I suppose the ad campaign has been second to none Sep 18 00:28:52 I'm starting to see them around campus so it's working. Sep 18 00:28:54 WebOS on NETBOOKS!! Sep 18 00:28:59 honestly i can't imagine verizon would ever allow a phone on their network they can't cripple, and you can't really cripple the pre Sep 18 00:29:04 Mousey: god that would be horrible. Sep 18 00:29:06 WebOS Server Edition Sep 18 00:29:07 mousey, sounds like linux? Sep 18 00:29:11 destinal, the other's a themes :) Sep 18 00:29:16 lol.. you saw ARM has a more general CPU coming Sep 18 00:29:19 Mousey: you could put webos on a netbook now if you want Sep 18 00:29:45 webos = luna :P Sep 18 00:29:47 destinal: maybe i should put it on a nokia n810, no recompilation necessary i don't htink Sep 18 00:29:59 ha! now THAT would be a HACK Sep 18 00:30:00 Mousey: nah, I was meaning the emulator image on an x86 Sep 18 00:30:06 destinal: cheater =P Sep 18 00:30:22 Templarian: i still havent seen one on the campus Sep 18 00:30:28 oh wait i saw it at security conference Sep 18 00:30:29 this may be a ridiculous question, why are there no arm based pc's? Sep 18 00:30:38 some guy had pre and he did not know how to use it Sep 18 00:30:38 :S Sep 18 00:31:12 zsoc: because we've killed those people. Sep 18 00:31:12 zsoc: a) there will be, b) nokia n810 is basically a PC Sep 18 00:31:25 define a PC ? Sep 18 00:31:25 i see :) Sep 18 00:31:50 * Mousey asks about Webos on n810 in #maemo Sep 18 00:31:53 The Atom people are just lucky they out number us. Sep 18 00:32:04 but anyway i see everybody with iP and i'm sick of this phone even old nokia 3310 is much better Sep 18 00:32:35 I'm seeing a lot of netbooks also. en0x have you noticed that on your campus? Sep 18 00:32:38 oooh, or maybe Maemo on a Pre!!! Sep 18 00:32:50 Templarian: netbooks right Sep 18 00:32:56 eee pc Sep 18 00:32:56 en0x: wrong page, you wanted http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application_talk:Preware Sep 18 00:32:59 yeye Sep 18 00:33:11 Tons of those dell mini's also. Yea a lot of eee's also. Sep 18 00:33:13 oh shit rwhitby Sep 18 00:33:13 You can install a lot on the pre if you want to write a bootloader/drivers Sep 18 00:33:21 and it took me 10 minutes to add this little comment Sep 18 00:33:22 :S Sep 18 00:33:51 so thinking of palm's smart phone numbers for the last quarter ... they said 800k phones sold with the vast majority of them being pre's ... Sep 18 00:34:05 yeah but how many?! Sep 18 00:34:06 :> Sep 18 00:34:17 back when the original iphone came out, it took 74 days (september 10th press release) for 1M iphones ... Sep 18 00:34:20 How many treo pros do you see running around? Sep 18 00:34:39 considering the competition from the established iphone competition ... Sep 18 00:34:39 Not a lot of Pre love in here, am I the only one that actually enjoys using webOS on a daily basis? Sep 18 00:34:53 zsoc: i enjoy it Sep 18 00:35:02 i do too Sep 18 00:35:05 and that the carrier is sprint .. which is #3 in the US .. Sep 18 00:35:08 I enjoy using it when it works. But the sad side of using dev builds is you see when it doesn't work Sep 18 00:35:15 universal search is one of the most convinient things i've ever seen/used on any user interface system Sep 18 00:35:34 I enjoy it, but it could definitely use soem refinement. Haven't ditched the iPhone yet, waiting to see what 1.2 is like. Sep 18 00:35:41 chrisa: yes i have a dev build too every month i get battery issue :p Sep 18 00:35:42 seems like things are on the up and up i would think Sep 18 00:35:57 bpadalino, that may be true, but $69.99 gets you a (basically) unlimited talk/text/data plan. it's very attractive Sep 18 00:36:07 en0x: that was hard to read Sep 18 00:36:24 en0x isn't a fan of puncuation Sep 18 00:36:35 chrisa: yes it's because i dont use punctuation Sep 18 00:36:35 :D Sep 18 00:36:36 zsoc, absolutely - but i am still surprised at how blogs report the pre not being even somewhat successful for palm Sep 18 00:36:40 s/puncuation/punctuation Sep 18 00:37:11 and always mention how well the iphone 3gs sold on opening days Sep 18 00:37:29 my friend at t-mobile pays 70 bucks for unlimited talk and 300 text messages... no data plan Sep 18 00:37:29 but a worldwide launch versus a single carrier US launch ... Sep 18 00:37:31 it's all hoopla.. apple's scared to pieces of the pre Sep 18 00:37:55 i dunno if they're scared to pieces ... but i think they have attention Sep 18 00:38:03 chrisa, i tried to get geist to give up some of his boards to you .. Sep 18 00:38:10 but i think he just /ignored me Sep 18 00:38:10 en0x, and tmobile is usually considered the cheapest Sep 18 00:38:15 i love showing iPhone retards how awesome multitasking is Sep 18 00:38:23 zsoc: i had tmobile for 3 yrs Sep 18 00:38:44 its great when you just talk zsoc but when u want to text or use data u fail Sep 18 00:38:50 Mousey, what is multitasking? Sep 18 00:38:52 i hope the iphone comes out with some good multitasking capabilities within the next year Sep 18 00:38:59 zsoc: cards, man, CARDS!! Sep 18 00:39:02 Didn't the 3gS sell a ridiculous number in a day? Sep 18 00:39:06 playing pandora while using google-maps Sep 18 00:39:09 DO THAT on an iphon Sep 18 00:39:10 e Sep 18 00:39:14 chrisa, i thought 5 million in opening weekend ? Sep 18 00:39:22 let me find the actual numbe Sep 18 00:39:22 r Sep 18 00:39:23 en0x, very true, plus people don't realize it but sprint's _3g_ coverage is better than gsm carriers, and only rivaled by verizon in certain places Sep 18 00:39:34 oh .. 1M Sep 18 00:39:40 zsoc en0x: hell yah it is, and faster too Sep 18 00:39:41 Mousey, was more of a sarcastic remark ;) most people think the iphone can multitask Sep 18 00:39:55 oh! i'm clearly dumb Sep 18 00:40:12 nah mate, you seem to speak just fine :) Sep 18 00:40:34 i get disappointed with the pre's slowdown when i come back from sleep and go into my open mail application .. Sep 18 00:40:41 definitely not smooth anymore Sep 18 00:40:46 as i am sure dbus is going nuts Sep 18 00:41:56 well it can Sep 18 00:42:03 multitask when you jailbreak it Sep 18 00:42:04 :p Sep 18 00:42:16 en0x, explain? Sep 18 00:42:43 the iphone has an app or something in unofficial app repo that can background apps Sep 18 00:43:05 i believe its called backgrounder or something but your iP must be jailbreaken Sep 18 00:43:11 or jailbroken Sep 18 00:43:15 stupid english Sep 18 00:43:54 but its no where near as cool as cards Sep 18 00:44:01 oil: right Sep 18 00:44:36 en0x, and your first language would be... dutch? Sep 18 00:44:43 polish Sep 18 00:44:53 morning all! Sep 18 00:44:55 Er Sep 18 00:44:57 ah, where are you living now? Sep 18 00:44:57 Afternoon Sep 18 00:45:00 Wonder how smooth the interface would have been if only the cards were web techs Sep 18 00:45:15 zsoc: in US and A? :> boston excaly for 8 yrs Sep 18 00:45:39 en0x, ah cool. i've met very few polish people :) i'm always interested in other cultures, just curious. Sep 18 00:45:56 im ok with it got used to it :) Sep 18 00:46:18 Boston's not so bad. Weather is nice atleast. Sep 18 00:46:33 humid man humid is killing me in summer Sep 18 00:46:40 no humid in poland Sep 18 00:46:58 yeah :/ i guess a little.. honestly it's much much worse down south... Florida is like 100% humidity every day, ha. Sep 18 00:47:20 thats a bummer Sep 18 00:47:21 :p Sep 18 00:47:23 zsoc: gnome has had universal search for a while :D Sep 18 00:47:26 Yeah you're right about english being stupid. Why is the amount of 'humid' called 'humidity'? Sep 18 00:47:43 dont ask me Sep 18 00:47:44 hehehe Sep 18 00:47:46 PuffTheMagic, heh, yeah i guess but you'd have no have a shortcut or somehow unfocus the windows you're on Sep 18 00:48:06 app catalog back up Sep 18 00:48:08 finally Sep 18 00:48:21 it was down Sep 18 00:48:21 and what's a f difference between peoples and peoples' Sep 18 00:48:22 ?! Sep 18 00:48:22 ? Sep 18 00:48:25 chuq says they rounded up all the hamsters and got them back in their cage. Sep 18 00:48:27 i hardly look in there :D Sep 18 00:48:41 thursday is new app day Sep 18 00:48:47 and my app went up this afternoon Sep 18 00:48:52 so I've been watching Sep 18 00:48:54 :D Sep 18 00:49:01 yay thursdays! Sep 18 00:49:05 * punzada bursts back into the room Sep 18 00:49:09 i have to make an app Sep 18 00:49:14 * oil has been watching it be a blank page most of the day Sep 18 00:49:17 that you will press a button and it won't do a thing Sep 18 00:49:22 and submit it to palm Sep 18 00:49:28 and call it 1 million dollar app Sep 18 00:49:28 ;D Sep 18 00:49:38 I had an idea for a dumb app involving fortune cookies, and then saw someone else already did it ... and more efficiently Sep 18 00:49:44 although they didn't have my fun graphic ideas Sep 18 00:50:02 * PuffTheMagic as Contra with no controls on his screen Sep 18 00:50:04 how come dot game has 1200 downloads, and I got 600. This hardly seems fair. Oil??? Sep 18 00:50:07 rick_home, which app is yours? Sep 18 00:50:14 reversi Sep 18 00:50:15 reversi Sep 18 00:50:15 * oil doesnt know Sep 18 00:50:23 hey i downloaded that earlier! Sep 18 00:50:29 lol Sep 18 00:50:33 maybe because mine is before the fold? Sep 18 00:50:47 barely Sep 18 00:50:49 also I got addicted to word ace last night, i was kicking ass Sep 18 00:50:58 REVERSI? IT HAS REVERSI! HOW MUCH WOULD YOU PAY? 500 DOLLARS? 1000 DOLLARS? EVEN MORE!!?? NOOOO IT'S JUST 99 DOLLARS!!! .. oh steve balmer.. Sep 18 00:51:01 never played it Sep 18 00:51:12 it's hold 'em meets scrabble Sep 18 00:51:13 it's good times Sep 18 00:51:20 zsoc: yes and it comes in 10 verities Sep 18 00:51:24 * Mousey throws a chair Sep 18 00:51:35 i love me some word ace Sep 18 00:51:35 Downloaded and installed i'll give you a 5 :) Sep 18 00:51:36 zsoc: premium ultimate basic professional and student edition Sep 18 00:51:49 But seriously, anyone seen that old steve balmer clip? it' amazing... here let me find it Sep 18 00:52:14 the most amazing video of steve ballmer is when he gets a cake in the face Sep 18 00:52:23 i always thought the funniest ballmer clip was "developers, developers, developers..." Sep 18 00:52:32 da happy dance! Sep 18 00:52:36 rick_home, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bP_uz_T8aI <-- you really need to watch this, seriously, you will laugh Sep 18 00:53:08 rick_home, although for some reason in that version there's a spanish guy interrupting half way through Sep 18 00:53:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edN4o8F9_P4 happy dance! Sep 18 00:53:29 rick_home, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk <-- there's a good one Sep 18 00:54:21 well happy dance rocks! Sep 18 00:54:33 Rick read that review. Sep 18 00:54:54 which review Sep 18 00:55:06 The one I just wrote :) Sep 18 00:55:10 amazing the chess app has now been reviewed UNFAVORABLY against my homebrew chess app. Sep 18 00:55:14 :-) Sep 18 00:55:32 Chess SUCKS Sep 18 00:55:35 The one in the catalog Sep 18 00:55:46 Chest is good tho. Sep 18 00:56:37 you know, I must have a short memory because there I was thinking ballmer was acting out of character with his DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS rant Sep 18 00:56:45 but apparently it was just acting in character Sep 18 00:57:10 punzada: of course. He loves developers (most of Microsoft is like that tbh just not as direct) Sep 18 00:57:20 hehe Sep 18 00:57:36 rick - how's the ai in the chess app? Sep 18 00:57:39 (yours) Sep 18 00:57:59 I haven't given it a go yet, just assumed any chess app at this point was elementary ai Sep 18 00:59:59 the ai in my chess app is so stupid it loses to scholars mate one try in 4 Sep 18 01:00:07 hm.. is there a cheap way to get a legit copy of win7? i'm just looking for a license.. Sep 18 01:00:23 rick_home, that's pretty bad Sep 18 01:00:45 fortunately I did not write it. Sep 18 01:00:52 haha, that's what I assumed, don't need a chess app making me think I'm better then I am :P Sep 18 01:00:53 to play _decent_ chess will require a binary. Sep 18 01:00:53 lol Sep 18 01:01:04 yeah absolutely Sep 18 01:01:05 does it ever move its piece back and forth forever? Sep 18 01:01:11 still on that oil? lol. Sep 18 01:01:17 * zsoc adjusts his piece Sep 18 01:01:18 xD Sep 18 01:01:21 xD Sep 18 01:01:41 hm, my terminal doesnt seem to resize when something shows up in the notification area, did i break it or is it a bug? Sep 18 01:01:47 gnuchess will compile and run on the pre just fine. With one of the smaller opening and end game books, the memory hit isn't bad, and it would play good solid mid range chess. Sep 18 01:01:54 Azalyn, it's a feature Sep 18 01:01:55 JS apps will never compete Sep 18 01:02:22 zsoc: o_O Sep 18 01:02:35 have you guys checked out "Dead Man" in the app catalog Sep 18 01:02:35 I want to make sweet sweet love to the terminal app. Sep 18 01:02:43 me too Sep 18 01:02:51 That app alone has turned the pre into 'something fun to hack' into 'something i have to hack' Sep 18 01:03:14 from* Sep 18 01:04:21 you guys should check out "DeadMan" in the app catalog, has some sweet graphics. Sep 18 01:05:35 Yea, really nice graphics. Sep 18 01:06:34 how come there aren't more apps like it? :/ Sep 18 01:07:17 cause programmer art is never very good? Sep 18 01:07:54 because unless I had found Josh Broward reversi would have had flat black and white circles and a flat green background and prelude for a font. Sep 18 01:08:10 programmers code. Artists do art Great programs require BOTH Sep 18 01:08:13 (*cough icon*) Sep 18 01:08:35 cough cough - let's see somehting bigger than 64px copugh cough Sep 18 01:09:05 I meant on the side of things Reversi has a nice icon also. Sep 18 01:09:21 ah very true Sep 18 01:09:31 lol Sep 18 01:10:19 dang, i had to delete a lot of apps to make room for DeadMan. Sep 18 01:10:31 DeadMan is HUGE Sep 18 01:10:32 preware them back in Sep 18 01:10:38 And the graphics are alright Sep 18 01:10:46 the worst current app is the quran. Sep 18 01:10:50 it's freaking HUGE Sep 18 01:12:05 ok supernatural time Sep 18 01:12:23 After installing/uninstalling some themes, a couple of my icons are not reverting back to default Sep 18 01:12:36 even after installing the "uninstall" .ipkg Sep 18 01:14:58 I think it MUST be that you're above the fold oil. Sep 18 01:15:23 Damn you and your male minder all to heck. Judy and I will figure out SOME way to get back. :-) Sep 18 01:15:33 you're running double my downloads..... Sep 18 01:15:50 lol Sep 18 01:16:02 maybe its just because i was late to the party Sep 18 01:16:23 ifthe last submitted apps got put on TOP, I'm a little pissed..... :-) Sep 18 01:16:38 hey kesne. Sep 18 01:17:35 when i was watching them come in Sep 18 01:17:51 after lunch Sep 18 01:17:59 new entries to the list were going on top Sep 18 01:19:24 pandora update Sep 18 01:19:25 d Sep 18 01:19:30 STILL LAGGY AS JUNKK Sep 18 01:20:08 yes. Sep 18 01:20:10 me too Sep 18 01:20:20 but that doesn't mean that they were SUBMITTED later. Sep 18 01:20:26 when did you submit dot game? Sep 18 01:20:59 My pandora never lags Sep 18 01:21:01 Decimation, you in evdo? Sep 18 01:21:04 the first time? Sep 18 01:21:06 wifi Sep 18 01:21:12 last tuesday Sep 18 01:21:12 Reversi went into devui on August 28th. Sep 18 01:21:24 My pandora never laggs either. Wifi and 3g are perfect on high. Sep 18 01:21:26 well then. DAMN YOU . :-) Sep 18 01:21:33 lol Sep 18 01:21:41 i only got 6 items in my review, too Sep 18 01:21:42 zsoc: it killed my batery and caused lag while scrolling through launcher pages. Sep 18 01:21:46 2 required Sep 18 01:21:48 4 suggested Sep 18 01:21:57 and the required ones were just stuff i forgot Sep 18 01:22:00 hmm, im download this reversi app, looks pretty bad :P Sep 18 01:22:03 to remove a menu item, and replace it with help Sep 18 01:22:33 August 29, 4 required, 14 suggested, 2 of the required, and four of the suggested I refused to do, and they agreed after I beat them up a bit. Sep 18 01:22:33 my app upload was the 15th though Sep 18 01:22:42 i did one suggested Sep 18 01:22:45 and the two required Sep 18 01:22:56 ahhhh Sep 18 01:23:07 so your fust upload was before me. Fine. I accept that then. Sep 18 01:23:20 i mean Sep 18 01:23:27 my last one was the 15th of september Sep 18 01:24:13 required was -- produce palm standard help screen.... remove detailed instructions, increase font size and write a high score manager. Sep 18 01:24:27 Did 3 of the 4 -- did not remove detailed instructions. Sep 18 01:24:41 also refused to slow down the gameplay.... Sep 18 01:24:47 lol Sep 18 01:25:00 my ai plays slower the further the game is along Sep 18 01:25:08 and really slow on large boards Sep 18 01:25:14 they wanted me to animate the chips flipping slower so that people could see where the computer moved easier. Sep 18 01:25:16 I said no. Sep 18 01:25:23 lol Sep 18 01:25:47 Did anyone else see the Hebrew Calendar in the app catalog and think it said "Homebrew Calendar" at first? Sep 18 01:25:48 the rest was all graphic stuff, and I was already working with Josh to replace ALL the graphics with his. Sep 18 01:25:57 EvanDotPro: No. Sep 18 01:26:07 EvanDotPro: only you Sep 18 01:26:11 haha, figures. Sep 18 01:26:48 I was surprised (ignorantly) to see all the religious based programming available Sep 18 01:26:49 EvanDotPro, are you trying to say Hebrew apps are easily overlooked? Sep 18 01:26:55 but, capitalize on religion, makes sense. Sep 18 01:27:22 punzada, alterinatively, it's possible that _religious people_ are making these apps for their own use and sharing with others of their religion Sep 18 01:27:44 * Templarian makes joke about programmers being atheists Sep 18 01:27:49 zsoc: lol, no. Sep 18 01:28:10 zsoc: I'd say that's being quite optimistic about people's motivation Sep 18 01:28:57 Clearly religion is not a discussion for this channel apparently :P Sep 18 01:32:27 lol Sep 18 01:33:04 lol, I try to avoid the topic so I don't get ranty, but I'll just come off like the typical arrogant agnostic/atheist in the end I'm sure. Sep 18 01:33:55 right. Sep 18 01:34:39 the blocked AI is easyyy :) Sep 18 01:34:47 it is Sep 18 01:34:49 it just sits there Sep 18 01:34:51 and does nothing Sep 18 01:34:56 lmao Sep 18 01:34:57 is that Tetris? Sep 18 01:34:57 my bad Sep 18 01:34:59 dot game. Sep 18 01:35:07 oh Sep 18 01:35:09 lol Sep 18 01:35:21 I like Topple Ball Sep 18 01:35:23 cool app Sep 18 01:35:43 tlp: yeah, very cool Sep 18 01:35:43 yes indeed it is Sep 18 01:35:55 i didnt know the accelerometer could be taken advantage of like that yet. Sep 18 01:36:38 4hz Sep 18 01:36:45 er, mhz Sep 18 01:41:11 nooooobodyy knowwsss the trouble iiivee seeennn Sep 18 01:41:25 yeah topple ball is awesome Sep 18 01:41:35 esp since that is without the improved service Sep 18 01:41:37 Decimation, the accelerometer is just going to handle the change in acceleration Sep 18 01:42:35 Topple ball is a very nice app and uses momentum to smooth over the low rate of acceleration changes Sep 18 01:45:51 zsoc, 4HZ is right not mhz Sep 18 01:46:00 egaudet, ah, thank you Sep 18 01:48:25 4MHz sampling would probably be overkill Sep 18 01:48:46 i'd think just right :P Sep 18 01:48:50 or did you mean 4mHz ? that would be way too slow Sep 18 01:55:21 hmm Sep 18 01:56:48 mHz, lol Sep 18 02:05:04 hey PuffTheMagic why does it flash the game Sep 18 02:05:12 like blink in and out Sep 18 02:05:19 did u stop Luna? Sep 18 02:05:42 oh lala thought you said it could be ran with luna Sep 18 02:05:50 i thought it could too Sep 18 02:05:57 lol Sep 18 02:06:57 that much closer though Sep 18 02:08:04 Anyone has the WebOS Doctor with 1.2 firmware ^^ Sep 18 02:08:18 that Sep 18 02:08:28 thatdude: i would wait until it comes out officailly Sep 18 02:08:34 thatdude: sometime next week Sep 18 02:08:53 Next week? Sep 18 02:08:56 24th is the rumor Sep 18 02:08:59 yea Sep 18 02:09:16 im just going to wait Sep 18 02:09:32 ive made a bit of a mess of my current filesystem hacking around on it Sep 18 02:09:39 will be nice to work fresh now that i'm used to it Sep 18 02:09:40 PuffTheMagic: hey can't you put a watch on when a process ends Sep 18 02:09:41 ? Sep 18 02:10:01 atlanta: that is out of context i dont know what the goal is Sep 18 02:10:06 Ive modded my pre so much that Im just gonna wait for 1.2 Sep 18 02:10:10 Guys I am off to bed, night and happy hacking/coding. Sep 18 02:10:41 PuffTheMagic: like have the system check to see if fceux is running Sep 18 02:10:45 if not start luna back up Sep 18 02:10:56 yeah there are way to do that Sep 18 02:10:57 i always update with a doctor - it just feels right. Sep 18 02:11:06 atlanta: im more concerned about keybindings Sep 18 02:11:08 Fresh install ftw? Sep 18 02:11:19 yea PuffTheMagic i cant get keys to work Sep 18 02:11:22 * oil is too lazy to doctor Sep 18 02:11:30 all that time setting everything back how i want it? Sep 18 02:11:31 no thank you Sep 18 02:11:33 Abyssul, oil: the doctor is just so clean. Sep 18 02:11:35 SO NEW Sep 18 02:12:20 Decimation, you remind me of me when i was you Sep 18 02:12:40 you were me once? Sep 18 02:12:46 so you believe in reincarnation? Sep 18 02:12:55 cloning? Sep 18 02:13:10 you cloned a reincarnation zsoc? Sep 18 02:13:34 thats something you need to share with the scientist, im sure they would be happy to hear your advances. Sep 18 02:13:43 it cant be a reincarnation unless you're dead Sep 18 02:14:11 Well then, I'll take your word for it. And then I'll use your word to make my own word. And with that word, I will rule the universe. Sep 18 02:14:51 universe, no. your room, yes. Sep 18 02:14:52 its a start. Sep 18 02:17:01 * DeCiBeL jumps up and down with joy. Sep 18 02:17:08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE Sep 18 02:17:11 ^ rules the world Sep 18 02:17:25 * DeCiBeL had his bill cycle start over today and Any mobile, anytime kicked in. Sep 18 02:18:00 * atlanta is looking at pacman on FCEUX but can't press any buttons Sep 18 02:18:38 my bad.. http://imadeafunny.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/pc-cat.jpg < rules the world. Sep 18 02:19:08 I was going to say i have that same case Sep 18 02:19:12 but i dont , mine is older and different Sep 18 02:19:13 lol Sep 18 02:19:38 1998, when I thought 'hey, compaq will be a good machine' Sep 18 02:19:45 and to be fair to them, it did last a decade before dying entirely Sep 18 02:20:08 made a nice debian server for the last year of its life Sep 18 02:20:42 PuffTheMagic: ya here? Sep 18 02:21:01 it's just a pinnacle of 90s technology, syquest 1gb tape drive, zip drive Sep 18 02:24:04 god audacity is ugly as hell Sep 18 02:27:22 It is now safe to turn off your computer Sep 18 02:29:02 do apps installed with filecoaster count toward the limit of apps allowed to be installed? Sep 18 02:29:46 Decimation, the real answer, is why wouldn't they? Sep 18 02:30:05 preware is rumored to not.. Sep 18 02:30:43 Decimation, preware successfully circumvents the limit, yes Sep 18 02:31:09 if i were to install with web os quick install Sep 18 02:31:14 would it count towards the limit Sep 18 02:32:04 try it out and tell us Sep 18 02:40:47 hmm Sep 18 02:40:53 I wonder why usb mode isn't working for me Sep 18 02:42:56 punzada, hm? Sep 18 02:43:27 idk, its not even being picked up by fdisk as a device being plugged in Sep 18 02:43:38 not sure why, not taht big of deal i can just scp stuff over Sep 18 02:45:45 Decimation: webos quick install uses the same mechanism as Preware, so should not be limited by application number Sep 18 02:46:06 rwhitby: thank you. Sep 18 02:46:41 of course applications installed with it are just like any other installed application, so will count towards the limit that Palm (and by use of the Palm API, fileCoaster) impose. Sep 18 02:50:24 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/203595-webosdr-setting-partition-file-sizes-get-around-memory-limitation.html#post1901300 Sep 18 02:50:28 that guy fixed the app limit? Sep 18 02:51:46 just a repartition, figured it wouldn't be much more complex then that Sep 18 02:51:50 i thought it was an arbitrary number Sep 18 02:51:55 in teh code somewhere Sep 18 02:52:08 where preware and wqi's only limit is space Sep 18 02:52:14 so, that would let you install more apps with them Sep 18 02:54:15 i want to install some of the apps from the regular stoer Sep 18 02:56:27 delete homebrew Sep 18 02:57:05 * gkatsev watches the engadget show **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Sep 18 02:59:56 2009