**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 24 02:59:58 2009 Sep 24 03:00:14 rick_home: much appreciated Sep 24 03:00:27 I just realized somethi8ng Sep 24 03:00:41 a major security issue Sep 24 03:01:02 hi Sep 24 03:01:20 Xyg Sep 24 03:01:29 mluker: http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/devmode-launcher Sep 24 03:01:34 you all install openssh during the install script, then download the optware-openssh event.d script, but in there you call sshd and allow root login and no passwd login Sep 24 03:02:08 if someone had done that and enables login through EVDO, someone could potentially scan for open port 22 or 222 and try to login via "root" with no passwd Sep 24 03:02:17 Im havin problems with virtual keyboard installation, can anyone help me Sep 24 03:02:52 what kind of problem? Sep 24 03:02:56 using Preware to install it? Sep 24 03:03:59 i tried using preware but it kept giving me installation error [4] Sep 24 03:04:27 Picklez, have you ever had the keyboard installed? Sep 24 03:04:34 then i tried using webos quick install and it gave me a long error Sep 24 03:04:58 yea i had it installed but i thought i should uninstall it b4 updating, then i oculdnt reinstall it Sep 24 03:05:09 how did you uninstall it Sep 24 03:05:14 DeCiBeL: um, who enables root login with a password ? Sep 24 03:05:27 I don't enable root login at all Sep 24 03:05:30 through preware i believe Sep 24 03:05:47 DeCiBeL: you just said: "but in there you call sshd and allow root login and no passwd login" Sep 24 03:05:49 i dont think theres another way to uninstall it is ther Sep 24 03:06:10 right, -o PermitRootLogin without-password Sep 24 03:06:13 and you didn't get any errors uninstalling? Sep 24 03:06:19 but you get errors reinstalling? Sep 24 03:06:22 i have a unmodified install from the wiki Sep 24 03:06:29 DeCiBeL: that means via ssh key only Sep 24 03:06:29 and when i try to ssh root it asks for a pw Sep 24 03:06:40 i honestly dont recall. there might have been the same error, but it uninstalled Sep 24 03:06:48 and i know root has no pw set Sep 24 03:06:51 DeCiBeL: did you look up the openssh manual before making such a bold statement? Sep 24 03:06:54 ahhh.. I didn't see the other switch Sep 24 03:07:02 when you try to install it in preware, and get an error, hit app menu and then ipkg log Sep 24 03:07:04 what does it say Sep 24 03:07:04 Negative. Sep 24 03:07:44 why is root login allowed at all, shouldn't be just be forcing sudo? Sep 24 03:07:51 we just* Sep 24 03:08:02 i dont recall, im gonna try the ipkg log Sep 24 03:08:33 ok its giving me a long log Sep 24 03:09:52 do u want me to type what the log says, cuz its rather long Sep 24 03:10:05 rwhitby, you removed packages from autopatch feed right? So it will autobuild the new ones soon Sep 24 03:10:16 egaudet: has already done so Sep 24 03:10:24 Picklez, does it say something about md5sums mismatch? Sep 24 03:10:30 egaudet: http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/autopatch/all/ Sep 24 03:10:53 <+egaudet> yes it does Sep 24 03:11:04 ooh i was checking autopatch/testing rwhitby :P Sep 24 03:11:07 awesome Sep 24 03:11:10 Picklez, http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/198051-screen-keyboard-bugs-functionality-enhancements-68.html#post1910190 Sep 24 03:11:23 looking good fellas Sep 24 03:11:33 going to have to do some emergency recovery it on the palm files so the patch can apply Sep 24 03:11:38 egaudet: we don't have git tagging in place yet, right? Sep 24 03:12:11 yea..i was on that a little while ago. i dont know what the first part means, and i tryed the alternative but it didnt do anything Sep 24 03:12:25 rwhitby, no because all the patches are in one git Sep 24 03:13:07 but I can change it to checkout the .patch files specifically on a git tag i guess Sep 24 03:13:40 I am in using novaterm, where are the apps installed Sep 24 03:13:42 egaudet: that would be best, then authors can update and test independently without causing the public feed to be updated. Sep 24 03:13:51 egaudet: will the webos repair thing fix this? Sep 24 03:14:16 rick_home, fix the keyboard errors? Sep 24 03:14:16 ~/usr/palm/applications mluker Sep 24 03:14:17 <+egaudet> any suggestions Sep 24 03:14:23 thx Sep 24 03:14:37 and downloaded/homebrew apps are in ~/var/usr/palm/applications Sep 24 03:15:33 Picklez, have you tried the Webos Repair Utility? Sep 24 03:15:44 2 files that need to be recovered are: Sep 24 03:15:54 no, ive never heard of that Sep 24 03:15:55 /usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/builtins/palmInitFramework191_15.js Sep 24 03:16:08 /usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/submissions/191.15/stylesheets/global.css Sep 24 03:16:46 It's new Picklez, from Jason who wrote WebOS Quick Install. Not sure if it repairs the frameworks or not though, will do some digging Sep 24 03:17:17 it's supposed to repaire the frameworks Sep 24 03:17:30 rwhitby, well the autobuilder won't build until you change the Makefile right so they cna still develop patches and test Sep 24 03:17:35 http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/204495-webos-repair-utility.html Sep 24 03:17:43 http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/204495-webos-repair-utility.html Sep 24 03:17:57 oooh Sep 24 03:18:11 rick has some fast fingers Sep 24 03:18:31 thanx a lot guys. i hope this thing comes with instructions lol Sep 24 03:18:47 Picklez, please try the repair utility and let us know if it fixes those files Sep 24 03:18:47 Picklez: it almost doesn't need any Sep 24 03:19:30 basically what it does is use novacom to ask the pre for md5 sums for basically every file anyone has ever patched on the pre, and if the sum is wrong, it copies over a fresh copy out of the doctor. Sep 24 03:19:34 egaudet: tru Sep 24 03:19:37 Hey can you screenshot on the emulator? Sep 24 03:20:30 i will let u know as soon as i find out, which should hopefully be within a few minutes Sep 24 03:21:04 egaudet: print screen xD Sep 24 03:21:25 egaudet: yep on the emulator window select the Machine menu> then take screenshot Sep 24 03:21:31 so if i run optware-bootstrap.sh will i have to undo anything when the 1.02 comes out? Sep 24 03:21:45 no Sep 24 03:21:59 thx Sep 24 03:22:11 it's specifically designed that way Sep 24 03:28:52 hwo long should installing openssh take? Sep 24 03:29:03 nevermind Sep 24 03:30:33 ok, i have to say, i kind of screwed up a little. i had a theme installed and it kept giving me md5 error and asked if i shoudl restore, so i pressed restore, so it screwed up a few things from my theme. this might actually take a while, because the scan alone should take about 30 minutes Sep 24 03:31:09 hopefully the end result is good :) Sep 24 03:31:36 servers down? Sep 24 03:31:50 and back Sep 24 03:32:48 when restoring from webos doctor, am i going to loose everything. is that the only downside Sep 24 03:33:56 if you do the webos doctor method it puts your Pre back to factory defaults. Your contacts are backed up to your palm profile, but you'll lose any pictures, music etc... Sep 24 03:35:33 but if you're using the webos REPAIR program that isn't the case Sep 24 03:35:41 since it's replacing files ONE BY ONE not in bulk Sep 24 03:36:51 yea but that screwed up my theme, half my pictures in the theme are missing now and i cant uninstall it lol, i shoudl restore each individually Sep 24 03:36:51 rwhitby, how do I get 2 depends to work Sep 24 03:37:04 egaudet: comma separated? Sep 24 03:37:15 oooh Sep 24 03:37:20 oops Sep 24 03:37:21 egaudet: the packaging standards wiki page should say Sep 24 03:37:31 doh Sep 24 03:37:44 Picklez: that's the point, one file at a time it's going to check which files are different than a stock install Sep 24 03:37:49 that INCLUDES themes Sep 24 03:37:53 and patches Sep 24 03:37:55 and programs Sep 24 03:38:07 so i should just restore each one? Sep 24 03:38:11 yep Sep 24 03:38:17 and you'll end up with an un-themed pre Sep 24 03:38:23 which you can re-install your theme on Sep 24 03:38:34 no big deal Sep 24 03:38:35 woot! I am in! Sep 24 03:38:43 mluker: yipee Sep 24 03:38:53 ohhh, well then thats a different story. am i goning to loose any of the apps i installed. 3rd party apps Sep 24 03:39:04 mluker: this is MUCH easier than it used to be. The instructions for that used to run to four pages.... Sep 24 03:39:07 Picklez: no Sep 24 03:39:12 oh, man Sep 24 03:39:23 Picklez: -- apps are apps, they are not PALM installed operating system files Sep 24 03:39:59 ok thanx. this is going to take a very long time because of this theme. each image.png is being restored and god knows what else Sep 24 03:41:15 ok, so it looks like i need nodoze Sep 24 03:41:28 wifi keep dropping when screen goes blank Sep 24 03:43:10 what's nodoze Sep 24 03:43:27 caffeine pills ? Sep 24 03:43:57 nodoze is a program that keeps the screensaver from coming on and keeps the pre awake Sep 24 03:44:13 extacy Sep 24 03:44:20 rwhitby, anyway we could get all of autopatch rebuilt? Sep 24 03:44:54 mluker: if you play an mp3 or pandora or something it also doesn't sleep Sep 24 03:45:23 rick where can I find the ring tone changer? i looked in palm.app.phone Sep 24 03:47:05 wait on that last request rwhitby Sep 24 03:51:04 ok should be good Sep 24 03:53:08 the pre records beautiful video :O Sep 24 03:53:24 where is MyNotificatgions located? Sep 24 03:54:04 full screen at 1920x1080 was great quality. Sep 24 03:54:25 I'll just bump the revs like I should Sep 24 03:55:03 decimate, what was the resolution of the video you recorded ? Sep 24 03:55:26 ok, wait. How did you record video. Sep 24 03:55:55 mynofications is on precentral in the hombrew repository Sep 24 03:56:23 mluker: it's on the wiki Sep 24 03:56:27 the video thing Sep 24 03:56:29 seems like mluker has a slight case of ADD Sep 24 03:56:37 LOL Sep 24 03:56:51 mluker: is trying to catch up to the last 3 months in one night bpad Sep 24 03:56:58 indeed Sep 24 03:57:01 rick, you mentioned looking at palsm ring tone changer. I cant find it anywhere Sep 24 03:57:02 apparently so Sep 24 03:57:10 *palms Sep 24 03:57:15 I am WAY behind Sep 24 03:57:20 I have ADD and OCD Sep 24 03:57:34 i saw another guy with a pre at the movies tonight Sep 24 03:58:04 did you do the handshake? Sep 24 03:58:16 mluker: it's the "sounds and ringtones" app from palm Sep 24 03:58:23 nah, i didn't even mention it Sep 24 03:58:23 did you beam each others cards ...., oh, wait, you can't do that any more .. Sep 24 03:58:41 did anyone try to use gmail's exchange support on their pre yet ? Sep 24 03:58:44 so under var\user\palm\applications? Sep 24 03:58:50 see if it acts a little better than the "native" gmail support ? Sep 24 03:59:32 mluker: it's \usr\palm\applications\com.palm.app.soundsandalerts Sep 24 03:59:50 \var is where USER INSTALLED apps are Sep 24 03:59:59 thanks! I found it. Sep 24 04:00:00 PALM installed apps (os apps) are in \usr Sep 24 04:00:14 now I have to go enable video, I hate you guys Sep 24 04:00:22 right Sep 24 04:00:34 just recognize that this irc channel is antithetical to sleep Sep 24 04:00:44 i see that Sep 24 04:00:46 oh it's so cute when you use blackslash for path Sep 24 04:00:51 LOL Sep 24 04:01:01 anyone know a linux / fastcgi / php configuration guru ? Sep 24 04:01:09 webos-internals php install needs some "tweaking" Sep 24 04:01:40 geist -- I would say something rude, but I don't want to piss you off. So, ((insert suitable rude comment here )) you. :-) Sep 24 04:02:04 I have the rootfs from the doctor on my local drive. Sep 24 04:02:17 and it uses backslash for path, and copying is easier than retyping Sep 24 04:02:29 so, I'm really sorry.... but I'm a windows guy. :-) Sep 24 04:03:20 heh Sep 24 04:03:40 but \nothing ends up being such a terrible directory name :( Sep 24 04:04:06 so why the hell did they not include video on launch, aholes. Sep 24 04:04:18 geist: I'm loving /var/luna/preferences/ran-first-stage - please don't ever let them remove that :-) Sep 24 04:04:32 mluker: easy, man. Sep 24 04:04:46 a little aggressive Sep 24 04:04:51 mluker: would you have preferred it to be delayed 6 months? Sep 24 04:05:03 its all to much for me. I should have limited my IRC time to 30 mins a day Sep 24 04:05:41 limit irc? nonsense! Sep 24 04:05:42 mluker: one more thing tonight then Sep 24 04:05:44 before you go Sep 24 04:05:58 ? Sep 24 04:05:59 did you get the magic url for the Pre development IDE with code completion? Sep 24 04:06:07 NO! Sep 24 04:06:15 magic? Sep 24 04:06:16 would you LIKE us to give you that url? Sep 24 04:06:24 heck yeah Sep 24 04:06:32 I sort of thought so.... Sep 24 04:06:34 I am using eclipse now Sep 24 04:06:37 magic as in documented on the wiki ? Sep 24 04:06:40 oooooooo Sep 24 04:06:43 eclipse sucks Sep 24 04:06:46 i agree Sep 24 04:06:52 i want magic Sep 24 04:06:53 you talking about komodo? Sep 24 04:06:58 a webos-internals sysop has written a MUCH nicer one Sep 24 04:07:04 webos.templarian.com Sep 24 04:07:10 punzada: yes. Sep 24 04:07:15 ah Sep 24 04:07:18 komodo edit WITH templarian's add on Sep 24 04:07:28 the FREE komodo edit Sep 24 04:07:33 nice Sep 24 04:07:41 i haven't seen someone referred to as a sysop in a long time Sep 24 04:07:42 with a webos PLUG IN that turns it into a complete webos ide with code completion Sep 24 04:08:04 bpadalino it's the name of the group on the wiki. Media wiki refers to sysops.... sorry. Sep 24 04:08:11 interesting Sep 24 04:08:15 didn't know that Sep 24 04:08:35 i read sysop and immediately heard modems negotiating line speed Sep 24 04:08:42 okay so now i have to install komodo and a plug in Sep 24 04:09:50 yeah Sep 24 04:09:57 but be careful to get the FREE one not the IDE Sep 24 04:10:03 you don't want the komodo ide Sep 24 04:10:06 you wan tthe free one Sep 24 04:10:09 Komodo EDIT Sep 24 04:10:17 ok thanks Sep 24 04:13:32 rick Sep 24 04:13:54 I think I found what I needed. "SystemService.setRingtone(file)" Sep 24 04:18:14 +++ATH Sep 24 04:19:08 i will Sep 24 04:23:18 !#(*&(&D!(*&!@ Sep 24 04:23:23 * destinal has quit (NO CARRIER) Sep 24 04:26:05 rick_home: microsoft with DOS created this whole / evilness. Well, maybe CPM before that Sep 24 04:26:45 err the whole using \ where / should be used evil Sep 24 04:27:18 Which month are you on now mluker? Sep 24 04:27:37 lol Sep 24 04:27:49 I am trying to see where palm://com.palm.audio/systemsounds is located Sep 24 04:29:18 usr/share Sep 24 04:29:50 thx Sep 24 04:30:16 11:29, i need sleep Sep 24 04:30:21 anyone else from MN here? Sep 24 04:30:23 It helps to have an extracted copy of the FS Sep 24 04:30:29 mluker: dbus-util --list | grep -i audio Sep 24 04:30:29 from the webos doctor ;) Sep 24 04:31:11 mluker: you'll find the path to the audiod binary that runs that service Sep 24 04:31:22 i used scp and grab var/user/palm/applications Sep 24 04:31:47 mluker: it's not there Sep 24 04:32:04 all i want to make it a stooopid app that plays a random ringtone everytime the phone rings Sep 24 04:34:46 i just tried komodo Sep 24 04:34:57 idk how you guys consider this a good app Sep 24 04:34:57 mluker: I suppose you could make a headless app that subscribes to the incoming call event and changes the ringtone so next call it's different. or you could patch the existing base applications to modify their incoming call behavior Sep 24 04:35:31 destinal: cron job which switches the audio file Sep 24 04:36:01 rwhitby: I'm try not to recommend going out to linux where mojo apps will do Sep 24 04:36:13 destinal: true Sep 24 04:36:36 but yeah, it's probably easier, if not as "webos-standard" to do a cronjob Sep 24 04:37:19 mluker: at any rate there are a lot of simpler apps you could make than that, easy as it may sound at first blush Sep 24 04:38:07 it's actually fairly complex Sep 24 04:39:27 mlurker: MN here. Sep 24 04:41:04 I pluged in my phone to load the ringtones and it charged like 10 times faster then the touchstone Sep 24 04:41:13 with like .00001% of the heat Sep 24 04:41:13 XD Sep 24 04:41:18 Yeah Sep 24 04:41:28 jkc2 where? Eagan here Sep 24 04:41:30 touchstone only goes at like 750mah Sep 24 04:41:36 yeah I noticed Sep 24 04:41:44 though I could cook my breakfest on it Sep 24 04:42:34 I cooked 3 omlets on it today Sep 24 04:42:40 hahah err....mluker....sorry freud I guess. Sep 24 04:42:49 omelets* Sep 24 04:43:05 i over-exaggerated all sorts of stuff today Sep 24 04:43:06 Eguy: pretty sure its 700 not 750 Sep 24 04:43:06 ok, I gotta add an auto-dev-mode-enabled to my doctor-creator script Sep 24 04:43:08 Long Lake Sep 24 04:43:10 but i could be wrong Sep 24 04:43:40 PuffTheMagic: You are probably right, I just remember it being in the 700's Sep 24 04:43:48 hmm 1243 and still no 1.2 Sep 24 04:43:59 1.2 was delayed Sep 24 04:44:05 and discontinued Sep 24 04:44:19 1.2.1 will be taking it's place Sep 24 04:44:23 lolol Sep 24 04:44:24 apparently Sep 24 04:44:44 * oil was looking forward to the update Sep 24 04:44:53 * Eguy agrees Sep 24 04:45:03 I don't give a crap about iTunes Sep 24 04:45:08 just release it without support Sep 24 04:45:31 They can always do another optional OTA update for iTunes sync Sep 24 04:45:54 the precentral post said it wasn't about itunes Sep 24 04:45:59 that it took like 4 hours to fix or whatever Sep 24 04:46:03 rubbish Sep 24 04:46:12 What could it possibly be then Sep 24 04:46:20 app store Sep 24 04:46:20 hmm - I need something to automatically load my wifi settings on reflash too ... Sep 24 04:46:21 they hate you Sep 24 04:46:36 the app store is not of Palm's concern Sep 24 04:46:51 well it is as far as sales comparison Sep 24 04:46:58 but the catalog bleh Sep 24 04:47:03 how long can it take Sep 24 04:47:11 the app store IS palm's concern Sep 24 04:47:12 so u guys serious about no 1.2? Sep 24 04:47:17 yes puff Sep 24 04:47:18 Yes Sep 24 04:47:19 no 1.2 Sep 24 04:47:26 replaced with 1.2.1 and delayed at least a week Sep 24 04:47:27 But there will be 1.2.1 Sep 24 04:47:27 XD Sep 24 04:47:29 PuffTheMagic: you really should read PreCentral :-) Sep 24 04:47:31 the catalog is Palm's concern Sep 24 04:47:40 precentral got an "anonymous tip" Sep 24 04:47:46 it was oil Sep 24 04:47:47 psst Sep 24 04:48:17 rwhitby: i really couldnt care less about anything going on a precentral Sep 24 04:48:30 PuffTheMagic: well, you just did. Sep 24 04:48:32 I think we all knew that Sep 24 04:48:55 rwhitby: um. no Sep 24 04:49:12 PuffTheMagic: sure, you asked about something that was answered on the front page of PreCentral Sep 24 04:50:14 rwhitby: it was answered here... i didnt have to go to precentral Sep 24 04:50:23 they do have news relative to your interests: the pre Sep 24 04:50:31 http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6353/preware20092409004545.png Sep 24 04:50:54 no luna restart? Sep 24 04:51:01 not while I'm testing Sep 24 04:51:06 xD Sep 24 04:51:13 :p Sep 24 04:51:19 egaudet: i meant to ask Sep 24 04:51:22 and luna manager is the awesome Sep 24 04:51:31 did show/hide work better in the osk? Sep 24 04:51:38 oh yea Sep 24 04:51:42 good :) Sep 24 04:51:45 much better Sep 24 04:51:47 nah luna manager is a waste of space Sep 24 04:52:03 along with blocked, dot game...etc Sep 24 04:52:06 :P Sep 24 04:52:35 are you planning on giving these patches different categories? Sep 24 04:53:25 sure eventually I think they should, will that get parsed in the list of patches? Sep 24 04:53:47 its already in the metadata Sep 24 04:54:00 i was just wondering if i should change preware to link to the category group scene instead of just the list Sep 24 04:54:05 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=tools/bypass-activation.git;a=summary is now an automatic means of modifying a doctor jar file to do automatic activation over wifi Sep 24 04:54:19 oil: eventually, yes Sep 24 04:54:33 ive decided to do that with the installed list Sep 24 04:54:36 it goes to the type group now Sep 24 04:54:42 (well, in the git version 091) Sep 24 04:54:42 good move Sep 24 04:54:56 hmm I am stuck on "updating" Sep 24 04:54:58 and made a bunch of other grouping type changes that puff suggested Sep 24 04:55:25 brb Sep 24 04:56:09 oil fix my pre stuck on updating please Sep 24 04:56:50 Can I offer some debugging at this point for you guys? Sep 24 04:58:16 oil: whens 091 gonna be in repo? Sep 24 04:58:20 i mean in feed? Sep 24 05:00:13 egaudet: that sounds like rwhitby's department xD Sep 24 05:00:31 too late, I couldn't wait anymore, close/open preware fixed it Sep 24 05:00:33 if the service never responds saying its done updating, the spinner never advances Sep 24 05:00:48 (instead of restarting it, you can just select update feeds from the app menu) Sep 24 05:01:04 PuffTheMagic: its not in the feed cause it still has some bugs from the move to the new sorting Sep 24 05:01:11 i can build you an ipk though ;) Sep 24 05:01:20 i could too Sep 24 05:02:41 the C version of ipkgservice runs smooth like butter... Sep 24 05:02:49 except for when libipkg segfaults Sep 24 05:02:53 lol Sep 24 05:03:03 egaudet: unless you can reproduce with dbus-util -capture webosinternals active, it's too late by the time it's hung. Sep 24 05:03:29 * oil wonders if rwhitby has been testing this stuff on his pre xD Sep 24 05:03:46 oil: nope, been working on the bypass-activation doctor adjuster Sep 24 05:03:50 ah Sep 24 05:04:06 Any oreo rwhitby? Sep 24 05:04:10 haha Sep 24 05:04:24 Eguy: no monte carlo Sep 24 05:04:35 hah Sep 24 05:05:35 http://www.arnotts.com.au/downloads/didyouknow/0d89_CREAM__minisite.jpg Sep 24 05:06:10 that is not an oreo Sep 24 05:06:18 no, it's a monte carlo Sep 24 05:06:42 cool Oreos! Sep 24 05:06:51 so, now that I can reflash and activate in one step, I can go on holidays tomorrow for 10 days Sep 24 05:06:54 Those cr@zy aussies.... Sep 24 05:06:54 rwhitby: so i just copied the gdial pro entry from the precentral feed and pasted it into a text file, the file is 8.8k Sep 24 05:07:01 rwhitby: so if the buffer max is 8k Sep 24 05:07:10 that could be the cause of the segfault Sep 24 05:07:25 could be. you can test by editing the list file directly Sep 24 05:07:53 rwhitby: or i could increase the 8k to 16k and rebuild libipk Sep 24 05:08:00 and link it statically Sep 24 05:08:31 cause i dont see the size of feeds being limited Sep 24 05:08:41 s/feeds/feed entries/ Sep 24 05:08:42 PuffTheMagic meant: cause i dont see the size of feed entries being limited Sep 24 05:09:09 8k of description text is a bit over the top. we will want to limit it simply for speed of installer execution. Sep 24 05:09:31 well its 8k total isnt it Sep 24 05:09:39 10 days? Sep 24 05:09:40 not just for description Sep 24 05:09:53 that means ill have to answer all the crap in the preware thread xD Sep 24 05:09:54 right, but the description is the only big thing other than lists of urls Sep 24 05:10:04 oil: yep :-) Sep 24 05:10:33 rwhitby: right but you cant put a 8k limit on description since the other stuff can put it over the limit Sep 24 05:10:39 oil: just point them at the new WebOS Repair Tool - it can repair anything, and Jason is getting paid to support it ;-) Sep 24 05:10:49 rwhitby: paid? Sep 24 05:10:54 destinal: donations :-) Sep 24 05:11:11 real ones, so I shouldn't say paid actually. Sep 24 05:11:39 with a general authoritative name like "repair tool" it seems it claims rather much. then again, who am I to talk, (see "Terminal") Sep 24 05:11:43 is there a way to tell what webos version from linux Sep 24 05:12:00 uname? Sep 24 05:12:12 hmagoo: thats kernel version Sep 24 05:12:15 destinal: oh, the repair tool fixes anything - that's why we send anyone with a problem jason's way ;-) Sep 24 05:12:25 egaudet: i gave you a method to do that a month ago Sep 24 05:12:27 egaudet: palm build info file Sep 24 05:12:42 a month is a long time ago :P Sep 24 05:12:57 * rwhitby bbl Sep 24 05:15:44 where's that Sep 24 05:18:05 egaudet: its in the beginning of one of the frameowrk files Sep 24 05:19:45 0.1.0... Sep 24 05:30:23 so there's no "official" place we can get the webos version from? Sep 24 05:30:41 i cant even remember where the frame work files are Sep 24 05:33:02 /usr/palm/frameworks Sep 24 05:33:09 ehhh Sep 24 05:33:11 but I don't see anything Sep 24 05:33:15 i looked in there Sep 24 05:33:19 but those are the files im looking for Sep 24 05:35:30 are or aren't Sep 24 05:35:36 arent Sep 24 05:36:07 oh maybe it is Sep 24 05:36:40 what is in Mojo.Version.use? Sep 24 05:37:25 nm Sep 24 05:37:25 thats all in mojo.js Sep 24 05:37:27 which you cant seem to use for some reason Sep 24 05:40:00 i could use anything but that's not telling me the webos version Sep 24 05:40:46 Mojo.Version is the same (0.1.0) in 1.2.0 leaked image Sep 24 05:40:50 you cant use the framework number Sep 24 05:41:01 I could as a workaround Sep 24 05:41:10 yeah well mojo version and webos version are not equal Sep 24 05:41:12 for 1.1.0 to 1.2.0 but that doesn't guarante 1.2.0 to anything further Sep 24 05:43:25 did you still need help testing advance homebrew patches? Sep 24 05:43:36 whoa Sep 24 05:43:58 type "/nick " Sep 24 05:44:11 lol Sep 24 05:44:14 sorry Sep 24 05:44:30 better? Sep 24 05:44:31 :P Sep 24 05:44:33 My fault Sep 24 05:44:35 and sure I could definitely use some alpha testers Sep 24 05:44:36 its been awhile Sep 24 05:44:37 yes thanks :D Sep 24 05:44:44 it's cool Sep 24 05:45:23 Id be glad to help Sep 24 05:46:10 Im currently on the leaked 1.2, would it be better for me to doctor back to a previous version or do you need a 1.2 tester as well? Sep 24 05:47:23 i have 2 bitches with my pre that they need to fix for 1.2.1 Sep 24 05:47:49 browser always starts in landscape (really pisses me off), and i want a way to search my e-mails like i cant in gmail Sep 24 05:47:56 whaa? Sep 24 05:47:57 the mail app is essentially useless Sep 24 05:48:06 mail searching is in 1.2.1 Sep 24 05:48:09 s/cant/can/ Sep 24 05:48:22 but, landscape browser sounds like something is broken Sep 24 05:48:22 lol Sep 24 05:48:30 mine only goes landscape if i hold it on its side Sep 24 05:48:53 oil: ifi start the browser manually its fine Sep 24 05:49:00 its usually if something else spawns it Sep 24 05:50:57 @ +egaudet, is there a new preware with these packages in the repo or how do I go about testing this for you and as I asked earlier, do you need me on 1.2 or a prior version? Sep 24 05:51:14 1.1.0 Sep 24 05:51:27 they are in a special feed you will have to manually add to preware for them to show up Sep 24 05:53:10 ok, can you hook me up with a link to the doctor for 1.1.0. I believe I have since deleted it from my computer, or at least this one Sep 24 05:53:12 This is still all very raw, Sep 24 05:53:15 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/autopatch/all/ Sep 24 05:53:32 What I did is Sep 24 05:53:51 echo "src/gz autopatch http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/autopatch/all" > /var/etc/ipkg/autopatch.conf Sep 24 05:54:02 on the Pre to get the feed into Preware, and then the patches should show up Sep 24 05:54:31 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions Sep 24 05:55:39 through putty,correct? Sep 24 06:00:47 egaudet: the official place is the build info file in /etc Sep 24 06:01:51 egaudet: /etc/palm-build-info Sep 24 06:01:56 dur, thanks Rod Sep 24 06:02:16 so the correct command would be? Sep 24 06:02:19 SMKOUT333, yep or novaterm Sep 24 06:02:39 echo "src/gz autopatch http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/autopatch/all" > /var/etc/ipkg/autopatch.conf Sep 24 06:02:55 I've only tested the "add delete launcher pages" patch so far Sep 24 06:03:20 and I recommend getting luna manager app because the patches don't restart luna which is required Sep 24 06:03:28 excellent, ill be doctoring my phone after I finish dinner for the family :) Ill test all of them and let you know if my phone BRICKS :o jk jk Sep 24 06:03:32 * rwhitby tests the bypass-activation script on the bellmo doctor Sep 24 06:03:37 I'll add that part in after testing, but for now you can restart luna with luna manager whenever you want to pull in changes Sep 24 06:03:48 so is 1.2 actually going to get released tomorrow? Sep 24 06:04:09 SMKOUT333, if you get into weird cases where you can't uninstall, try the "Emergency Patch Recovery" package found in System Utilities Sep 24 06:04:20 (technically, today, depending on your time zone) Sep 24 06:04:20 thanks a ton for helping me test :D Sep 24 06:04:40 No problem man, bout time I gave back for how much Ive been given Sep 24 06:04:58 can you let me know more about this luna manager app as I have never used it. Thanks! Sep 24 06:04:58 PuffTheMagic, git command to throw away my commits and get back to the HEAD from the master repo? Sep 24 06:05:17 HattCzech: latest I heard was one week, did that change? Sep 24 06:05:22 SMKOUT333, it's a simple homebrew app that allows you to rescan, restart luna and restart java Sep 24 06:05:36 http://precentral.net Sep 24 06:05:40 restart luna will restart the luna gui and reread everything you should need for patches Sep 24 06:05:48 is it in filecoaster? Sep 24 06:06:22 I understand what it does and what its for ive just always done it manualy through putty, I wasnt aware "theres an app for that" (apple quote) Sep 24 06:06:31 hmagoo: i saw that it might be delayed, i'm just wondering if that's true or not Sep 24 06:06:59 SMKOUT333, :D I dunno about filecoaster but it is in preware under I think System Utilities? Sep 24 06:07:16 Ok, thats simple enough for me :) Sep 24 06:07:37 Ill finish dinner for the family real quick and then Ill doctor my phone Sep 24 06:07:44 You gonna be up awhile longer? Sep 24 06:08:58 egaudet: git reset --hard Sep 24 06:09:27 I think I've botched it all up Sep 24 06:09:37 I did a git checkout on a tag Sep 24 06:09:43 oh Sep 24 06:09:45 and then I did a commit from there Sep 24 06:09:48 so u need to get back to master Sep 24 06:09:52 yea Sep 24 06:10:02 what branch u on? Sep 24 06:10:07 its not call master is it? Sep 24 06:10:19 git branch Sep 24 06:10:21 * (no branch) Sep 24 06:10:23 master Sep 24 06:10:27 lol Sep 24 06:10:36 git branch -D master Sep 24 06:10:44 git checkout -b master origin/master Sep 24 06:11:36 awesome Sep 24 06:11:37 thanks Sep 24 06:13:37 SMKOUT333: Luna Manager could not possibly be installed by fileCoaster, cause fileCoaster cannot install advanced homebrew. Sep 24 06:13:47 actually Sep 24 06:13:49 if hes already got preware Sep 24 06:13:51 actually Sep 24 06:13:53 and the package manager Sep 24 06:13:57 he can install it with filecoaster Sep 24 06:14:01 but, filecoaster doesnt have access to it Sep 24 06:14:02 so, he cant Sep 24 06:14:16 Understood :) Thanks Sep 24 06:14:33 already got the works, but soon to be a fresh start after the doctor Sep 24 06:14:51 egaudet: how long you gonna do this? Sep 24 06:14:59 do what? Sep 24 06:15:03 ? Sep 24 06:15:04 :P Sep 24 06:15:13 talk to your self? Sep 24 06:15:22 what? Sep 24 06:15:32 hes talking to I and Oil Sep 24 06:15:47 [01:58:08] <-> egaudet_ is now known as SMKOUT333 Sep 24 06:16:10 That was my bad Sep 24 06:16:23 PuffTheMagic, I posted on precentral to join webos-internals and put (nick: egaudet) I think he put that nick in the webchat by mistake :P Sep 24 06:16:24 Im SMKOUT333 from Precentral, sorry for any confusion Sep 24 06:16:41 Im quite tired tonight and my mind is on dinner Sep 24 06:16:44 that is correct Sep 24 06:16:53 * rwhitby flashes a sprint phone with the bellmo image, modified to auto activate ... Sep 24 06:16:57 I apologize for any confusion I may have caused Sep 24 06:17:04 lol Sep 24 06:17:06 I wonder what will happen .. Sep 24 06:17:07 it was very funny Sep 24 06:17:18 you made me think I accidentally pasted something in chat when you first showed up lol Sep 24 06:17:24 rwhitby: did you get yourself a pre? Sep 24 06:17:33 HattCzech: indeed I did Sep 24 06:17:47 awesome, so those donations worked out, huh? Sep 24 06:17:48 CONGRATS! Sep 24 06:17:52 HattCzech: yep Sep 24 06:17:59 I was wondering when that was gonna happen Sep 24 06:18:15 any left over for internals? Sep 24 06:18:16 :P Sep 24 06:18:20 it will never work as a phone is this country, but the wifi works fine. Sep 24 06:18:24 now if only i could figure out how to make money from my app (or get more donations) ;) Sep 24 06:18:41 * oil lols @ beta themes Sep 24 06:18:45 yeah, CDMA isn't what it used to be :) Sep 24 06:18:53 lmaoo Sep 24 06:19:07 SMKOUT333: some of the left over is already paying for a backup machine to be placed in the University of Hawaii to be the replacement offsite backup solution for webos-internals.org and preware.org Sep 24 06:19:21 Thats GREAT to hear Sep 24 06:19:25 :D Sep 24 06:20:04 the current offsite backup is in ka6sox's office, which is still on the western half of the continental US, so both wouldn't survive a meteor impact .. Sep 24 06:20:29 always gotta be prepared Sep 24 06:20:38 something which took out both oregon and LA would kill all the project's backups. Sep 24 06:20:49 bout 4 min and Ill start doctoring my phone Sep 24 06:21:14 Are we expecting a horrible occurance? Sep 24 06:21:24 Is it more likely to happen then 1.2 dropping tomorrow :P Sep 24 06:21:25 rwhitby: nuclear? Sep 24 06:21:26 jk jk Sep 24 06:21:27 at least the git repos would still be safe on my laptop in Australia ... Sep 24 06:21:38 what are you looking for as a backup? Sep 24 06:21:57 but the wiki would be toast. so we putting a backup in hawaii, connected to the master over Internet2 Sep 24 06:24:59 HattCzech: we've got an old celeron that used to be nslu2-linux.org, and some 500GB disks which used to be on the machine that runs webos-internals.org now but had disks replaced with 1TB disks last year. we just had to buy some disk caddies, and shipping. Sep 24 06:25:26 it's just an offsite backup machine, not live or anything, so it doesn't need much grunt. Sep 24 06:25:53 heh, i was wondering if a NAS would work for that purpose? :) Sep 24 06:26:28 although my connection speed is only 2mb down, ~250kB up Sep 24 06:26:56 HattCzech: yeah, we're talking GB pipes on Internet2 here ... Sep 24 06:27:11 ummm http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Accessing_Linux_From_Windows (depreciated is spelled wrong just in case anyone cares to give it a look) Sep 24 06:27:17 heheh, yeah, i figured the connection would be a bit better :) Sep 24 06:27:25 SMKOUT333: feel free to fix it Sep 24 06:27:47 SMKOUT333: unless your thinking of changing deprecated to depreciated ... Sep 24 06:27:51 jk Sep 24 06:27:57 SMKOUT333: yeah, it's fine :) hahah Sep 24 06:28:00 I was seeing if someone would fall for it Sep 24 06:28:07 haha Sep 24 06:28:21 Looks like I need to up my ante Sep 24 06:29:18 rwhitby: you mentioned to me previously about doing some work for optware... (in my attempt to get a free NAS from QNAP)... could you give me more info about that? Sep 24 06:29:45 HattCzech: I wasn't really serious about that. The stuff is fairly static now. Sep 24 06:30:01 ahhh okay Sep 24 06:30:02 Looks like a bellmo doctor image works fine on a sprint phone. Sep 24 06:30:26 i'm trying to find stuff to occupy my time... Sep 24 06:30:54 HattCzech: egaudet needs help taking wiki modifications and turning them into patches for his new autopatch stuff Sep 24 06:31:12 that sounds amusing Sep 24 06:31:24 bellmo image is much nicer - no sprint junk in it. Sep 24 06:31:28 what time zone is he in? Sep 24 06:31:34 is there bellmo junk in there? Sep 24 06:33:11 is there any signifigant changes ? from bellmo img to sprint? Sep 24 06:33:57 let me see whether the palm profile works first Sep 24 06:34:37 okie dokie, didnt mean to seemingly rush you :) Sep 24 06:34:46 Doctoring my phone now Sep 24 06:35:53 HattCzech: as far as I can see, no bellmo junk. or maybe it has detected a sprint phone somehow and not installed it. Sep 24 06:36:06 hmmm, makes me want to install it :) hahaha Sep 24 06:36:30 aside from it not working as a phone ;) Sep 24 06:36:32 same here Sep 24 06:36:41 and Im about to doctor my phone anyways Sep 24 06:36:54 but where would that leave me with my testing for egaudet Sep 24 06:37:02 *cracks knuckles* sounds like custom rom making :) Sep 24 06:37:10 hell yeah ! Sep 24 06:37:31 gives me the choice of french instead of spanish Sep 24 06:37:47 lmao Sep 24 06:37:49 neither are useful for me Sep 24 06:38:08 although i know more spanish than french, but that doesn't mean much Sep 24 06:38:14 nor I, although since Im mexican I could probably get back to my spanish roots again Sep 24 06:38:25 heheh Sep 24 06:38:26 yep, palm profile seems to be portable across sprint and bellmo, including restoring the backup Sep 24 06:38:58 cool Sep 24 06:39:12 HattCzech: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=tools/bypass-activation.git;a=summary is the makefile to modify the doctor Sep 24 06:39:34 even worked how to do it without needing root on the desktop linux host Sep 24 06:39:53 sweet, that also looks fun Sep 24 06:39:54 (the /dev stuff is tricky in the filesystem image) Sep 24 06:39:59 is egaudet still around? Sep 24 06:40:06 sort of Sep 24 06:40:10 yo no se Sep 24 06:40:22 lmao, figured Id try the spanish roots out Sep 24 06:40:32 i was wondering what you needed help with in relation to the wiki patches and the stuff you're working on Sep 24 06:40:42 How much longer you gonna be up egaudet? Sep 24 06:41:13 YESSSS!!! Samsung 8500 series finally online! to buy or not to buy? :/ Sep 24 06:41:25 not to buy Sep 24 06:41:34 por que no? Sep 24 06:41:37 MUCH better phone coming 1st quarter 2010 Sep 24 06:41:39 lmao Sep 24 06:41:42 nice touch there Sep 24 06:41:49 Phones... actually Sep 24 06:42:03 i'm talking tv... what are you talking? :) Sep 24 06:42:12 damnit Sep 24 06:42:18 I'll be up for maybe another 15-20 minutes max hopefully Sep 24 06:42:20 why ddoes no one else fall for things Sep 24 06:42:35 other IRCs people are trippin over themselves Sep 24 06:42:44 everyone seems to be on there game tonight Sep 24 06:42:52 SMKOUT333: the other half of the population that has below-average intelligence is in another channel .... Sep 24 06:43:00 Ah, gotcha Sep 24 06:43:03 HattCzech, I need a lot of alpha testing of the new autopatch system as well as getting a lot of the mods from the wiki into .patch files in gitoious Sep 24 06:43:15 oh well, Ill probably learn more here anyways :) Sep 24 06:43:20 ahhh okay Sep 24 06:43:29 i can try with some patch making Sep 24 06:43:31 The Doctor should be done somewhat soon Sep 24 06:43:36 Ive never had it take so long Sep 24 06:43:45 its USUALLY stupid fast Sep 24 06:43:48 although i never successfully uploaded my charcounter patch Sep 24 06:43:55 it seems someone else did, though Sep 24 06:44:57 wow, i didn't realize i got such good deals on these tvs... like $1400 off... not bad Sep 24 06:45:04 how so? Sep 24 06:45:20 soon-to-be unemployed from samsung Sep 24 06:45:39 Ah, I see.Get em while you can Sep 24 06:45:39 anyone need a tv? :) Sep 24 06:45:48 whatd you do for Samsung? Sep 24 06:45:49 Can you get me the 8 series LED? Sep 24 06:45:51 yup, less than a month left Sep 24 06:45:52 :D Sep 24 06:45:54 i sure can Sep 24 06:45:55 yes please Sep 24 06:46:03 For free Sep 24 06:46:06 :D Sep 24 06:46:06 factory automation Sep 24 06:46:34 not for free, but the 46" 8500 is only like $2200ish before tax and shipping Sep 24 06:46:45 only Sep 24 06:46:51 is there a homebrew apps which just shows the raw info from GPS ? Sep 24 06:46:54 lol, i know Sep 24 06:47:10 rwhitby: i think there's a geocaching one that might do that Sep 24 06:47:55 I have a 52" 650 that is fantastic Sep 24 06:48:08 thats a damn good deal! Sep 24 06:48:28 SMKOUT333: yeah, which is why i need to find a job soon so i can buy one :) hahahaha Sep 24 06:49:02 I'm not keen on the 240hz myself 120 is more than enough Sep 24 06:49:08 the 55" 8500 is like ~$2800 Sep 24 06:49:21 try 4K ;) Sep 24 06:49:25 holy shit (jaw drops) Sep 24 06:49:26 ohhhh, but 240 looks so nice Sep 24 06:49:28 oh not retail Sep 24 06:49:37 2800! Sep 24 06:49:43 120 looks fake in a lot of applications Sep 24 06:49:49 Eguy: yeah, that's how much it is with the employee discount :) Sep 24 06:49:50 Someone get this guy a beer Sep 24 06:49:51 240 is just like overkill lol Sep 24 06:50:08 hmm - I need to update my doctor modification script to automatically install preware ... Sep 24 06:50:19 I wish I had a spare 3K...I'd buy it to go with my new PS3 :D Sep 24 06:50:36 rwhitby: you're making a custom webosdoctor image? Sep 24 06:50:41 nice... i wanted the new PS3 to have wireless-n, though Sep 24 06:50:44 Xyg: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=tools/bypass-activation.git;a=summary Sep 24 06:50:48 for belllmo though right? Sep 24 06:50:49 i was disappointed when i saw it didn't Sep 24 06:51:00 I am hard wired so I don't care ;) Sep 24 06:51:19 Xyg: I'm making tools to make such images, since such images cannot be redistributed, but anyone can use a tool to create one for their own personal use. Sep 24 06:51:22 i need to do that... well, i need to sell my house, then do that at my new place :) Sep 24 06:51:38 SMKOUT333: the tool works on any doctor image Sep 24 06:51:50 rwhitby: I dig it Sep 24 06:51:53 Eguy: 240 looks awesome with scrolling text or motion... better than 120 ;) Sep 24 06:52:09 your TV's are garbage Sep 24 06:52:31 Xyg: why's that? Sep 24 06:52:31 oh! That sounds fun Sep 24 06:52:43 It's not good for regular TV and movies IMO Sep 24 06:53:07 i haven't tested it out, but it looked nice at CES Sep 24 06:53:13 OK back Sep 24 06:53:17 Thats down to personal prefrence Sep 24 06:53:26 But in some cases I agree with the movie comment Sep 24 06:53:27 so before I go to bed any questions? Sep 24 06:53:34 sometimes it makes it look awful Sep 24 06:53:38 yeah, what time you waking up? Sep 24 06:53:38 Doctor is just about done Sep 24 06:53:41 Indeed, depends on the movie Sep 24 06:53:44 oil: we need License visible in preware app page Sep 24 06:53:51 but I should have no trouble with your instructions :) Sep 24 06:54:06 anything in particular you want tested Sep 24 06:54:10 tv talk should be in #webos-watercooler though Sep 24 06:54:14 and should I put results in Precentral or? Sep 24 06:54:30 hehe, true Sep 24 06:54:48 I'll be back on IRC around 11/12 tomorrow eastern time Sep 24 06:55:01 alrighty Sep 24 06:55:12 sounds good, no college classes for me tomorrow so Ill see you then Sep 24 06:55:15 SMKOUT333, nothing in particular, keep the results here Sep 24 06:55:23 Will do Sep 24 06:55:40 so just test all the patches I can and keep track of what screws up and what goes through proper Sep 24 06:56:01 jot down whatever you come accross. One thing I know for sure is the enable-browser-download patch will probably fail because it's not in the right format (tries to create an existing palm file), but it is being fixed by fritos the creator Sep 24 06:56:23 ok, will avoid then , thanks for the warning :) Sep 24 06:56:35 no need to avoid Sep 24 06:56:38 it should fail gracefully Sep 24 06:56:45 oh, already then Sep 24 06:56:52 Ill have some results for you tomorrow Sep 24 06:56:53 Sleep well Sep 24 06:57:04 and you can use the preware ipkg log (app menu after an install) to see the stdout and find out why it failed etc... Sep 24 06:57:16 excellent :) Sep 24 06:57:29 Im familiar Sep 24 06:57:36 My main goal is to know that patches that CAN install do, and then patches can be removed cleanly as well Sep 24 06:57:59 so you want installs as well as clean uninstalls Sep 24 06:58:09 Okie dokie, ill jot down what I can for ya Sep 24 06:58:17 and if you remember to jot down what patches wer einstalled when you come accross a failure. but test as much or as little as you can, and thanks a lot Sep 24 06:58:38 would you like a particular combo of patches tested at all? Sep 24 06:58:50 nothing in particular, just looking to break the system if possible Sep 24 06:59:01 Ok, ill see what I can do Sep 24 06:59:03 :) Sep 24 06:59:06 Night Sep 24 06:59:14 i'm off to bed as well Sep 24 06:59:20 Im not:P Sep 24 06:59:22 by system I meant patch mechanism of course :P gnight and thanks again Sep 24 06:59:23 adios Sep 24 06:59:31 no classes mean I can stay up Sep 24 06:59:36 see ya Sep 24 06:59:40 bye Sep 24 06:59:52 I need to reboot badly Sep 24 07:00:15 Accessing linux as we speak Sep 24 07:00:24 this is becoming second nature Sep 24 07:00:40 you will root your pre in your sleep soon Sep 24 07:01:41 I probably already could, and Ive only done it 3 times, and once was just for the leaked 1.2 and this one is just for some alpha testing for egaudet Sep 24 07:02:38 * oil pushed more changes to preware, including a new log scene, and putting the log link in the main scenes app menu to possibly help with debugging startup problems Sep 24 07:02:56 good move! Sep 24 07:07:31 though i have a feeling it will never say anything useful in the main scene Sep 24 07:07:47 ok, looks like it's time for me to learn palm-install ... Sep 24 07:07:56 Thats probably true Sep 24 07:08:07 if the service doesnt respond, it never gets anything to log Sep 24 07:08:18 The unassisted GPS on the Pre seems pretty poor. Sep 24 07:08:46 and seems to forget where it was a second ago if you close a card. Sep 24 07:09:26 rwhitby, good news Sep 24 07:09:28 google maps can't get a fix at all it seems. Go To Lite gets a fix after a while, but forgets it if you close the card Sep 24 07:09:42 http://blog.palm.com/palm/2009/09/europe-says-willkommen-failte-and-welcome-to-palm-pre.htm Sep 24 07:09:58 rwhitby: weird doing what you have told/observed people to do for a while? Sep 24 07:10:41 Eguy: Preware is so much more awesome on the real device ... Sep 24 07:11:35 Xyg: "exclusive carrier" Sep 24 07:12:02 1.2? Sep 24 07:12:13 rwhitby: perhaps unlocked models will be available/available soon =/ Sep 24 07:12:47 well, based on this GPS performance, anything that doesn't get GPS assistance from your carrier is going to be a pretty awful experience. Sep 24 07:16:30 now, to find out how to have dev mode enabled coming out of the doctor's office ... Sep 24 07:16:35 God dammit I need 1.2 Sep 24 07:19:43 lol Sep 24 07:19:50 I am excited for LED notifications Sep 24 07:19:57 luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.connectionmanager/setnovacommode '{"isEnabled":true}' Sep 24 07:20:00 rwhitby, touch a file Sep 24 07:20:15 If the calendar would take less than 20 seconds to load would be a plus too Sep 24 07:20:19 egaudet_sleep: which file? Sep 24 07:20:46 well i haven't tested but i see file /var/gadget/novacom_enabled Sep 24 07:20:52 so I will just go ahead and assume Sep 24 07:21:03 it's an empty file Sep 24 07:21:17 yep, /etc/event.d/novacomd tests it Sep 24 07:21:54 I wouldn't mind LED notifications Sep 24 07:22:08 ok now I'm really going to bed, night all Sep 24 07:22:49 see ya egaudet Sep 24 07:23:02 * rwhitby updates the webos doctor doctor Sep 24 07:23:09 ? Sep 24 07:23:23 Night Egaudet Sep 24 07:23:25 what do you call a doctor that operates on a doctor Sep 24 07:23:35 mom? Sep 24 07:23:42 maybe i'll call it the webos-internals meta-doctor Sep 24 07:23:55 I can't think of a sarcastic joke to make :( Sep 24 07:24:00 rwhitby: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/preware.git;a=commit;h=2808697757dc4c844f26024b30c4817b53283684 Sep 24 07:24:10 what does Pre use for gps? Sep 24 07:24:24 is it the msm chip? only Sep 24 07:24:32 LED notifications will be good because the Pre has a week speaker and weak vibrator Sep 24 07:24:37 weak* Sep 24 07:25:05 tmzt: it uses triangulation also Sep 24 07:25:10 combination of both Sep 24 07:25:29 yes Sep 24 07:25:36 but where in the device? Sep 24 07:25:52 there's no sirf or similar chip right? Sep 24 07:25:54 well the triangulation is done by cell towers Sep 24 07:25:55 the GPS on the Pre is pretty awful Sep 24 07:26:14 mine pinpoints me as close as the room of certain houses i'm in on google maps Sep 24 07:26:16 I don't know the chipset of the gps Sep 24 07:26:18 so I think it's pretty good Sep 24 07:26:33 I have had varied results with the gps Sep 24 07:27:01 It worked one day quite well, all other, below par to say the least Sep 24 07:27:07 is there a channel for it or is it in the at commands? Sep 24 07:27:10 i just try not to use apps because of the bad battery life lol Sep 24 07:28:04 I would be curious to see how it handles my next vermont trip, last time I went up there with my htc mogul the gps didn't work at all. Sep 24 07:28:19 on Sprint? Sep 24 07:28:23 yup Sep 24 07:28:35 with the firmware upgrade? Sep 24 07:28:39 yup Sep 24 07:28:42 mogul? sounds hot...ltteraly Sep 24 07:28:46 odd Sep 24 07:28:59 it worked fine around here Sep 24 07:29:05 but up there I had no gps signal, ever. Sep 24 07:29:05 gps should work everywhere Sep 24 07:29:19 I tried it like 8 different times over two days Sep 24 07:29:30 so it would have longer ttff Sep 24 07:29:37 but should still work Sep 24 07:29:48 yeah i gave it time, nada, i found it quite odd as well *shrug* Sep 24 07:30:52 Eguy: for being my first 'smartphone' it was okay, very happy to be away from windows mobile now though, random freezes and multitasking consisting of no more then two apps without massive slowdown is lame Sep 24 07:31:24 Didn't the mogul get really hot? Sep 24 07:31:26 plus the keyboard had issues, no gpu acceleration due to lack of driver support Sep 24 07:31:37 um, it would get warm but my pre gets warmer Sep 24 07:31:44 no gpu acceleration? sounds familiar hahahah Sep 24 07:31:54 lol yeah i'm cursed apparently ;P Sep 24 07:32:56 Pre has no a-gps support? Sep 24 07:33:09 for loading ephemeris, etc. Sep 24 07:33:22 the app selection was nice, one app i really liked was livecast, live webcam streaming from a cell phone is pretty cool if you ask me Sep 24 07:33:49 somebody here has been working on that Sep 24 07:34:05 but the gstreamer support is broken Sep 24 07:34:06 Pre does have a-gps Sep 24 07:34:27 In 1.2 you can choose between the two Sep 24 07:34:29 so what's missing? Sep 24 07:34:54 on the iphone..when they bump two phones together to exchange info..is that bluetooth or ir its using? Sep 24 07:35:13 I always just assumed bluetooth Sep 24 07:35:14 BT Sep 24 07:35:22 iphone doens't have IR Sep 24 07:35:27 wifi Sep 24 07:35:48 wifi...sets up a adhoc connection real fast ? Sep 24 07:35:53 Sorry. Tired. It's not wifi because an ad-hoc network would need to be made Sep 24 07:35:54 nope, it's call isex Sep 24 07:35:58 but it only works in one app Sep 24 07:36:19 well, I know they support wifi for games Sep 24 07:36:26 yep Sep 24 07:36:34 is any pre dev's working on that kind of app? Sep 24 07:36:37 and if it's Bonjour based it could be just as fast Sep 24 07:36:40 It can't be BT because you would have to pair it Sep 24 07:37:20 wow it does use wifi Sep 24 07:37:23 nifty Sep 24 07:37:56 Oh yes. Nothing beats the iPhone. It is far superior than any other species including humans Sep 24 07:38:07 It laughs at our puny brains Sep 24 07:38:15 my brother was telling me how much he hated his Sep 24 07:38:31 I just kind of shrugged and went back to playing in the terminal on my phone Sep 24 07:38:37 lol Sep 24 07:38:50 has anyone got their eht0 to go into monitor mode >>>> wifi on pre Sep 24 07:39:27 I have not, was wondering what type of 'security testing' applications could be crafted with the wifi chip on the pre though. Sep 24 07:39:40 probably not with the marvell driver Sep 24 07:40:05 "PS3 Slim sells 1 million units in 3 weeks" impressive Sep 24 07:40:09 has anybody got libertas driver to work yet? Sep 24 07:40:10 i was also curious about that...i saw there is a kismet.ipkg in the repository..i was told it wont work until they figure out how to get eth0 into monitor mode Sep 24 07:41:06 yeah many of the -opt packages are still very alpha in terms of pre usage, I should be working on packaging bitlbee and irssi on preware but I'm being slow about it, been too many other non-hobby projects popping up Sep 24 07:41:24 plus you chatty people in here keep me distracted ;p Sep 24 07:41:28 irssi is in optware Sep 24 07:41:30 lol Sep 24 07:41:39 I'm using it right now Sep 24 07:41:39 yeah I know it is Sep 24 07:41:47 but its not on preware Sep 24 07:42:12 I want to find a way to package it and package it with bitlbee support as seemlessly as possible Sep 24 07:42:36 I'm being slow with post-inst scripts and such to do it properly though Sep 24 07:42:40 i was looking for a tutorial on installing the irc package in the repository but still havent came across one Sep 24 07:42:45 why would it be? I thought pre ware was for gui stuff Sep 24 07:42:57 virtual keyboard update eh? Sep 24 07:43:10 daybreak1199: I've written one, it's on the wiki. Sep 24 07:43:23 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Linux_Tutorial_Irssi Sep 24 07:43:24 if you are already using the cli ipkg install it Sep 24 07:43:27 tmzt: there is an optware feed in preware now, which is optware that can be installed without linux access (but may need linux access to use) Sep 24 07:43:39 ah Sep 24 07:44:04 what is linux access? Sep 24 07:44:15 root prompt Sep 24 07:44:22 basically a script that installs openssh, some gnu tools, and sets up a user account for you Sep 24 07:44:23 correct me if I am wrong Sep 24 07:44:50 couldn't you use Terminal Sep 24 07:45:27 of course, would want to adduser though, running irssi as root is a bad idea :P Sep 24 07:46:17 which is my current connumdrum with all this, if packaged through preware I can't think of the proper way to go about asking the user for a username and password seemlessly and 'user friendly' Sep 24 07:46:24 user friendliness isn't exactly my forte Sep 24 07:47:11 I dont everyone running it as root once they install it, wont even be able to connect to nets like efnet if they do. Sep 24 07:47:17 no way of using a depreciated user account instead of root when using irssi? Sep 24 07:47:24 oh you can Sep 24 07:47:32 just in the terminal app you su to the other account Sep 24 07:47:57 and then run irssi Sep 24 07:48:24 i have a little script setup that runs the bitlbee service, runs screen and switches to the lower-privledged user (it's on the wiki I linked) Sep 24 07:48:30 makes things simple Sep 24 07:48:35 but still not 'pretty' Sep 24 07:51:11 punzada: when i was trying to install it using ipkg install irssi_0.8.14-1_arm.ipk it would just error out...why is that? Sep 24 07:51:47 I'm unsure, I've always simply used "ipkg-opt install irssi" with the optware feed set up Sep 24 07:51:52 (you also need to install perl to get it to run) Sep 24 07:52:16 kk Sep 24 07:53:20 ah, good, my meta-doctor can now to auto-dev-mode after flashing Sep 24 07:53:34 I just like that I can use the same client I love on my desktop right on my phone and use all my IM services ;x Sep 24 07:53:47 o.o nice Sep 24 07:54:37 hmm a pidgin app in the works? Sep 24 07:55:17 well supposedly the current messaging application is built on libpurple, so it's entirely possible Sep 24 07:56:10 I tried running finch but had some library missing Sep 24 07:56:27 looked for it briefly but I'm not used to dealing with arm ports and such Sep 24 07:56:42 * oil and puff are designing an irc app Sep 24 07:56:46 app and service Sep 24 07:57:46 good news. not everyone loves terminal as much as I do they'd like something pretty ;p Sep 24 07:58:23 i like nice big buttons with pretty pictures that show me what to do Sep 24 07:59:07 I like keyboard shortcuts, portability, and anything I can enhance with gnu screen :D Sep 24 07:59:09 itl be the paper-airplane button xD Sep 24 07:59:19 lol Sep 24 08:01:20 i did launch my pre like a paper airplane yesterday...nice little hairline crack running up the side now...hasnt spread to the screen yet...fingers crossed Sep 24 08:01:54 ouch Sep 24 08:02:16 I'm waiting to get paid so I can order one of those 2600 batteries Sep 24 08:02:45 im waiting for the back cover to be touch stone compatible before upgrading again Sep 24 08:03:17 I dont have a touchstone, I find it fairly pointless Sep 24 08:03:29 i really like using the touch stone in my truck...makes it really easy to just lay it down,,secure and being charged at the same time Sep 24 08:03:35 I get why it's nice, and the tech behind it is fairly awesome Sep 24 08:03:52 but for me personally just plugging it in is worth saving the $70 for the meantime Sep 24 08:03:57 lol funny my tooth brush had that technology first...hehe Sep 24 08:04:04 well, not really awesome - toothbrushes have been doing it for years Sep 24 08:04:55 when they make an 8x10 like pan that you set things into a zone..that will auto config the amps and volts..that will be cool Sep 24 08:06:25 * oil <<3 touchstone Sep 24 08:07:11 the matte backplate is really nice too Sep 24 08:07:22 get home from work..throw your phone ..bt ear piece and any other rechargeable item on to the pan it knows what volts/amps to give each device...take about a time saver Sep 24 08:09:41 watching my son on this wireless baby monitor makes me want an app to watch him on my pre also! Sep 24 08:12:07 I agree, he's cute as a bell Sep 24 08:12:21 you really should encrypt this feed Sep 24 08:13:37 lol Sep 24 08:15:03 lol Sep 24 08:20:08 daybreak1199, set up a linux computer with a webcam, small webserver, and motion installed Sep 24 08:20:27 then you can watch your little bundle of germs any time Sep 24 08:20:49 for something smooth though you would need a flash applet, anything js based is going to be quite choppy Sep 24 08:21:13 since most js solutions are basically save a jpg of the feed, upload and refresh Sep 24 08:21:24 unless i'm not thinking of something obvious Sep 24 08:21:34 [1.2 yet? Sep 24 08:21:38 motion uses mjpeg Sep 24 08:21:56 and you can set whatever interval you want the images to update Sep 24 08:22:33 ah, not bad Sep 24 08:22:57 sounds like a fun idea to try out Sep 24 08:22:57 * punzada just slammed a red bull, making this a guaranteed all nighter Sep 24 08:23:13 yeah, its basically just a low framerate video feed Sep 24 08:23:24 i used to use that setup for security cameras Sep 24 08:24:06 anyone used the MS dreamspark website yet? Sep 24 08:24:20 what is this? Sep 24 08:24:42 place to get free microsoft progs ..if you are a student Sep 24 08:24:59 ah right Sep 24 08:25:01 Pre WebOS V 1.1 Fresh from the doctor:) virtual kb installed first Roam Only installed next (didnt require restart) Actual Percent Installed 3rd (NON-working) More Icons Per Row, (Error installing 4) (ironic as its the 4th patch I tried :P) Calendar Month View installed 5th (required full restart) Messaging Landscape installed 6th (required full restart Message Forwarding installed 7th (required full restart) Enable L Sep 24 08:25:46 restart? Sep 24 08:25:48 why? Sep 24 08:26:15 this is data for egaudet an alpha test for preware Sep 24 08:26:35 can you pastebin? Sep 24 08:26:46 but really Sep 24 08:27:00 why should anything require restarting the device Sep 24 08:28:15 because for whatever reason a luna restart wouldnt trigger the change Sep 24 08:28:55 1.2? Sep 24 08:30:07 is it cacheing files? Sep 24 08:30:28 tmpfs or some startup script clears them or something Sep 24 08:30:47 GSM Pres announced Sep 24 08:30:54 No unlocked, it appears :( Sep 24 08:31:04 where? Sep 24 08:31:10 Palm's Facebook page Sep 24 08:31:19 UK here: http://mediacentre.o2.co.uk/content/detail.aspx?ReleaseID=539&NewsAreaID=305 Sep 24 08:31:23 with msm booting second Sep 24 08:31:30 Ireland here: http://www.o2online.ie/wps/wcm/connect/O2/Home/Shop/Phones/Palm+Pre/ (page appears borked) Sep 24 08:31:38 Germany here: http://www.o2online.de/nw/handys/palmpre/palm-pre.html?et_cid=25&et_lid=358722&et_sub=slider_palmpre_white Sep 24 08:31:49 Germany will sell an unlocked version. which is great if you like QWERTZ keyboards Sep 24 08:32:02 Contacted an O2 press person about UK unlocked, she's going to send me the details when she finds out Sep 24 08:32:08 mickeyl: gsm pre in de Sep 24 08:32:10 but it doesn't look good. dammit Sep 24 08:32:25 Xyg: lol. not quite my cup of tea Sep 24 08:32:41 not that all the carrier data isnt stored in it's own img anyway Sep 24 08:33:02 what data? Sep 24 08:33:14 msm has it's own nand Sep 24 08:33:53 can anybody confirm if its 6800 yet Sep 24 08:33:57 guess not Sep 24 08:34:32 dunno Sep 24 08:34:59 better than nothing I suppose Sep 24 08:44:02 freakout: i bet someone could unlock it Sep 24 08:44:27 oil: I bet someone could do. I'm bloody well counting on it :) Sep 24 08:44:38 s\do\too Sep 24 08:44:44 ~botsmack Sep 24 08:44:54 OWW! Sep 24 08:46:35 I'm sorry, infobot. I know it's my fault. Sep 24 08:46:46 ~botsnack Sep 24 08:46:46 freakout: thanks Sep 24 08:47:02 infobot likes freakout ? Sep 24 08:47:03 * infobot runs and gives freakout a big bear-hug. Sep 24 08:47:12 * freakout hugs back, gropes inappropriately Sep 24 09:02:07 * Eguy shakes head and cannot believe his eyes Sep 24 09:08:09 infobot likes Eguy Sep 24 09:08:10 * infobot runs and gives Eguy a big bear-hug. **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 24 09:12:04 2009 Sep 24 09:23:20 ello ello Sep 24 09:51:52 no offense to anyone, but when we get a lot of different countries using the Pre discussing details about it can become confusing Sep 24 10:14:45 why would that cause offense? Sep 24 12:35:08 1.2? Sep 24 12:41:06 rwhitby: UK launch confirmed :):) Sep 24 13:35:51 .msg nickserv identify rboatright jrb7516 Sep 24 13:36:19 well, time to change my password now. Sep 24 13:36:44 lol Sep 24 13:37:33 annoying that. Sep 24 13:37:47 morining PuffTheMagic how are you this fine AM Ryan? Sep 24 13:37:59 anything interesting overnight? Sep 24 13:38:21 lol nothing happened over night besides rest :D Sep 24 13:50:22 * rwhitby is gone for 10 days Sep 24 14:02:03 rwhitby: 10 days??? Sep 24 14:02:20 greg_roll: but no unlocked :( Sep 24 14:04:09 freakout: was that you I saw on the plamcast the other day Sep 24 14:04:43 AnOutsider: not for the last two weeks anyway, I've had a new job that's prevented my from being able to participate :( Sep 24 14:04:58 But before that? yup Sep 24 14:05:02 heh Sep 24 14:05:10 wait, wasnt it you who made checkers? or was that someone else here Sep 24 14:05:15 lol Sep 24 14:05:21 No, that's kesne Sep 24 14:05:31 oh, duh haha Sep 24 14:05:57 I wish I had the talent. Nope, I'm just a blogger who hangs out here making lame jokes and keeping my eyes peeled for cool hacking scoops Sep 24 14:06:21 haha Sep 24 14:06:44 (i covered your PreThemer site on Palm Infocenter: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9897/prethemer-pretties-up-palm-pre-phones/ ) Sep 24 14:06:56 any geeks waiting for the new stargate? Sep 24 14:07:03 oh yes yes yes! me me me! Sep 24 14:07:08 yeah i remember that, I just dont know why I thought you also did checkers Sep 24 14:07:26 I hope it makes up for Atlantis, which disappointed me greatly in its last seasons Sep 24 14:07:44 atlantis got kinda meh, but that was laziness, they had all the elements for a great show Sep 24 14:07:54 indeed. the 1st season was awesome Sep 24 14:08:09 ditch tela and ronin. they had a few episodes that were action-packed but rushed. its liek the writers wanted to jsut get it over with Sep 24 14:08:22 but as soon as they re-established the Earth connection and dropped the "team on their own in the wilderness" angle it lost its juice Sep 24 14:08:27 yeah, boo teyla!! Sep 24 14:08:36 most worthless, wooden character ever Sep 24 14:08:43 tivo finally popped up SGU so i grabbed my season pass. I'm also bidding on one of the press kits on ebay. Hopefully it'll be good and not just BSG with a gate Sep 24 14:08:55 she had potential, and was relatively hot... but alas.. Sep 24 14:08:57 I actually liked Weir, although I know that's not a popular view ;) and I <3 Woolsey Sep 24 14:09:13 ditto on the "not just BSG with a gate" Sep 24 14:09:15 I liked weir too, I thought it was shitty of them to replace her for sam Sep 24 14:09:18 I like Robert Caryle a lot Sep 24 14:09:27 woolsey was the man too. SGA had a lot fo good characters Sep 24 14:09:33 s\Caryle\Carlyle Sep 24 14:09:39 I didnt miss the doctor much when he left, and it was lamer when they kept randomly bringing him back Sep 24 14:10:02 indeed Sep 24 14:10:18 I liked Jewel Staite, but after Firefly I'd watch her in *anything* Sep 24 14:12:02 didnt catch firefly, but she's been in a number of shows, always the same type of chick, and always one id definitly take Sep 24 14:13:15 so in the new Virtual Keyboard, tapping the gesture area ONCE closes it? Sep 24 14:15:07 Also, what is the finger pointer for? the one next to the comma? Sep 24 14:16:11 dragging the keyboard Sep 24 14:16:12 locks the keyboard, got that Sep 24 14:16:37 locks it so you can drag it Sep 24 14:16:47 cool.,. I like that Sep 24 14:16:59 what about that other question, ONE tap to close is correct? Sep 24 14:17:45 I also THINK i found a bug, who do I report it to? Sep 24 14:18:17 Of course the last time I said I THINK i found a bug, rwhitby got upset. Rightly so, I didn't research it further. However, this one I have. Sep 24 14:20:39 Rick_work: Ping? Sep 24 14:22:33 Yep, I confirmed it. hmagoo you there? Sep 24 14:25:04 DeCiBel if no answer here, you can probably add it to Discussion page for this homebrew app Sep 24 14:25:35 10-4, I suppose I should have thought of that before. Sep 24 14:25:42 I just wanted a second person to confirm Sep 24 14:25:58 I am a little gun shy after rwhitby got onto me yesterday. Sep 24 14:29:31 disregard, it's already listed. Sep 24 14:56:09 heh Sep 24 15:02:28 hrm Sep 24 15:02:35 i wonder how well scummvm would run on the pre Sep 24 15:03:25 i want that fighter plane game on the pre Sep 24 15:03:31 the one that is on iphone/touch Sep 24 15:08:46 god i hate you gentoo Sep 24 15:10:38 you around PuffTheMagic? Sep 24 15:10:49 lol Sep 24 15:11:04 gentoo is being a god damn bitch Sep 24 15:11:12 i dont beleive it Sep 24 15:11:21 you must be treating it like one :D Sep 24 15:11:23 i'm trying to emerge gst-plugins-mpeg2dec on the arm side Sep 24 15:11:33 and it keeps bitching that i don't have glib 2.16 Sep 24 15:11:38 obviously i don't because i don't want it Sep 24 15:11:43 right Sep 24 15:11:47 so use an older version Sep 24 15:11:51 of gst-plugins Sep 24 15:11:53 i tried all 3 ebuilds Sep 24 15:11:58 and they require glib-2.18 at least Sep 24 15:12:04 well 2 things Sep 24 15:12:10 first... Sep 24 15:12:23 why are you building that gst plugin Sep 24 15:12:28 is it already on the pre? Sep 24 15:12:38 or are you hoping to copy it ot the pre? Sep 24 15:12:39 not sure, i was trying to compile scummvm and it's required Sep 24 15:12:47 for mpeg playback Sep 24 15:12:59 Don't use Gentoo Sep 24 15:13:05 that's what i'm starting to think Sep 24 15:13:16 it would almost be worthwhile to just get gcc on the damn pre Sep 24 15:13:24 DeCiBeL: stfu Sep 24 15:13:26 if you aren't like an expert at doing things on your own, or have a major expert in your corner, it's impossible. Sep 24 15:13:33 PuffTheMagic: come make me Sep 24 15:13:38 :D Sep 24 15:13:44 sampson: 2 seconds Sep 24 15:13:45 i know linux i just haven't fucked with gentoo in over 6 years Sep 24 15:13:49 PuffTheMagic: I use gentoo. Sep 24 15:13:57 i admin servers for a living Sep 24 15:14:10 sampson: palm has their own gst plugins Sep 24 15:14:18 or should i say... they have patches applied to gst Sep 24 15:14:23 they dont use vanilla Sep 24 15:14:39 so the "optimal" solution would be to make an ebuild using the exact palm code Sep 24 15:14:44 but Sep 24 15:14:53 so how would i build something in this environment that relies on those libraries without having them on it Sep 24 15:15:05 I run CentOS on all my servers. Gentoo on one of my laptops, Ubuntu Serverf on one of my desktops and I have about every mainstream distro in a vmware shell on my laptop. Sep 24 15:15:16 sampson: you make ebuilds for them and then build them your self Sep 24 15:15:29 sampson: thats what i did for mjson,cjson, libgdbus..etc Sep 24 15:15:34 i just didnt get to gst yet Sep 24 15:15:36 but... Sep 24 15:15:38 sampson: http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/ Sep 24 15:15:41 you can use that site Sep 24 15:15:49 and pull old ebuilds off it Sep 24 15:16:09 so find a gstplugins that works with your glib Sep 24 15:16:17 its not like this would be easier with another distro Sep 24 15:16:25 Gentoo is soo difficult. I had to stop using it as my primary because of how much time it took to get cross-compatibility. I have nothing by respect for those who use it full time and know it inside and out (PuffTheMagic). Sep 24 15:16:41 it would be easier if we got gcc on castle :P Sep 24 15:16:50 sampson: lol Sep 24 15:16:51 no Sep 24 15:16:59 sampson: and take 10 years to build 1 package? Sep 24 15:17:01 That's actually not a bad idea, but I don't think it would work Sep 24 15:17:13 the proicessor/ram would not allow the builds to go fast Sep 24 15:17:23 i'm a patient person Sep 24 15:17:26 lord, look at boot time. :D Sep 24 15:17:31 DeCiBeL: idk what is so difficult, i've used gentoo as my desktop OS for 10 years now Sep 24 15:17:37 puff: i ssh Sep 24 15:17:46 PuffTheMagic: That's why its easy for you Sep 24 15:17:47 ;) Sep 24 15:17:57 Do you remember day 1 with gentoo? Sep 24 15:18:01 i used gentoo in 03 on a gateway laptop spent 3 months getting it all prettied up and then it corrupted the superblocks one time when hibernating Sep 24 15:18:05 DeCiBeL: sure do Sep 24 15:18:07 and i got so pissed i never used it again Sep 24 15:18:09 i knew jack shit about linux Sep 24 15:18:20 My first linux os was Slackware 1.12 Sep 24 15:18:23 gentoo is how i "learned" linux Sep 24 15:18:25 even had cron jobs to watch temps and adjust fans as necessary since linux was such shit at supporting laptop acpi Sep 24 15:18:26 and some slackware Sep 24 15:18:28 that helped too Sep 24 15:18:45 Is there crontabs in castle? Sep 24 15:18:48 debian/fedora/suse/mandrake didnt do shit for me Sep 24 15:18:53 DeCiBeL: sure are Sep 24 15:18:55 puff: ssh'ed directly to my phone and went into an app and added a button and some text without even having to recompile or use gcc or the palm sdk tools. not sure why all that is needed. Sep 24 15:19:06 uhhh Sep 24 15:19:10 wh0dat: wtf u talking about Sep 24 15:19:11 you edited a mojo application Sep 24 15:19:14 have we thought about making a crontab to fire a SIGHUP at luna every 6 hours or so? Sep 24 15:19:17 we're talking about userland applications Sep 24 15:19:20 to free her ram hoarding self? Sep 24 15:20:26 wait, it wouldn't be SIGHUP would it.. Sep 24 15:20:30 it also isn't fair that motionapps got access to a real sdk when every other app developer gets boned Sep 24 15:20:31 sampson: okay makes sense. but for mojo apps its possible to just edit/create them right on the phone without need of ipk files or the sdk tools? Sep 24 15:20:43 I forget the kill signal to free ram, but not restart the process. Sep 24 15:20:53 you have to reload the packages on the pre but yes, you could essentially make them from scratch Sep 24 15:21:03 it would be more work than necessary though Sep 24 15:21:44 sampson: im actually in the process of building everyone on the pre from scratch that is possible Sep 24 15:21:50 i have about 1/3 of it done Sep 24 15:21:56 Kesne was telling me last night Palm supplies the tools necessary to obfuscate the code properly so it can't be "cracked" easily in for-pay apps. Sep 24 15:22:03 i'll just wait for you then :P Sep 24 15:22:04 using any patches from palms site that are necessary Sep 24 15:22:22 although the shitty thing about that approach is there won't be any of the pre tweaks on the libs Sep 24 15:22:35 sampson: wrong Sep 24 15:22:41 sampson: i jsut said im applying the patches from plam Sep 24 15:22:44 if they added code Sep 24 15:22:46 ah Sep 24 15:22:50 or anything significant Sep 24 15:22:57 you know, after you do this instead of copying all the crap Sep 24 15:23:01 you should do like how classic does Sep 24 15:23:08 have you seen .prepare.sh ? Sep 24 15:23:10 IS this true? My co-developer of sMMS wants to port it to the Pre, but is worried his code would be stolen. He is a die hard C#, WinMo programmer and doesn't like opensource much. Sep 24 15:23:17 sampson: like classic? Sep 24 15:23:19 it mounts all the filesysteem in bind to /var/local/palm for the emulator Sep 24 15:23:29 to keep it isolated Sep 24 15:23:35 let me find the script Sep 24 15:23:48 im not following what this accomplishes here? Sep 24 15:24:07 so you can keep your homebrew in /opt and not mess with anything related to the pre os Sep 24 15:24:18 and not have to install anything extra Sep 24 15:24:29 im still not following what the "goal" is Sep 24 15:24:48 isolating the homebrew userland from the pre Sep 24 15:25:44 im not about to copy the homebrew userland to the pre Sep 24 15:26:00 http://pastebin.com/d5f60c346 Sep 24 15:26:03 the reason why i am making it identical to the pre userland is so i can build apps and use the existing userland Sep 24 15:26:07 http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/media-plugins/gst-plugins-mpeg2dec/?hideattic=0 Sep 24 15:26:16 those are the old ebuilds for the plugin you want Sep 24 15:26:31 that is run when classic starts up which basically remounts the entire filesystem into classic's own space Sep 24 15:26:32 is there a way to get the official app catalog to work over evdo like the preware catalog app does? Sep 24 15:26:39 PuffTheMagic: what graphics library are you working on? Sep 24 15:26:55 DeCiBeL: im not working on anything Sep 24 15:26:59 oh Sep 24 15:27:00 DeCiBeL: where did you get that from? Sep 24 15:27:05 I thought you were involved in that Sep 24 15:27:10 assumption. Sep 24 15:27:23 DeCiBeL: well i mean... i play around with lots of projects Sep 24 15:27:34 there is working going on in getting directfb apps to work in luna cards Sep 24 15:27:50 sampson: i would never copy the userland i am making onto the pre Sep 24 15:27:53 that's what it was.. driectfb Sep 24 15:27:58 directfb* Sep 24 15:28:02 sampson: just binaries build Sep 24 15:28:09 ic well i'll just wait for your environment then Sep 24 15:28:09 and they should be able to use the .so's on the pre Sep 24 15:28:19 so with this you should be able to just chroot to build apps right? Sep 24 15:28:26 if they don't exist in emerge Sep 24 15:28:28 no Sep 24 15:28:30 you cant chroot Sep 24 15:28:35 ANy of you have an iTouch or iPhone? Sep 24 15:28:35 lame Sep 24 15:28:44 sampson: its impossible Sep 24 15:28:48 i have an x86 Sep 24 15:28:53 the pre is arm Sep 24 15:28:57 the binaries wouldnt run Sep 24 15:29:14 What processor architecture is that new processor in the Pixi? Sep 24 15:29:18 arm Sep 24 15:29:27 pretty much any smart phone anymore will be arm Sep 24 15:29:33 even though its not a TI chipset? Sep 24 15:29:37 yes Sep 24 15:29:54 it's a qualcomm Sep 24 15:29:56 msm7627 Sep 24 15:29:56 sweet Sep 24 15:30:27 what's it's operating power? Nm. I'll go look at fcc specs. Sep 24 15:30:27 sampson: i wouldnt hold your breath waiting for my userland... im only adding ebuilds as I need them right now Sep 24 15:30:36 boo Sep 24 15:30:40 i will push my overlay to a repo though Sep 24 15:30:45 so people can use it Sep 24 15:30:53 and you can always send me ebuilds to add to it Sep 24 15:31:00 sampson: but waiting for mine wont even help you Sep 24 15:31:09 cause that wm and gst plugin arent even defaults on the pre Sep 24 15:31:12 i don't really have time to screw with it until october anyways Sep 24 15:31:32 i figured i'd just have a go at scummvm real quick and see what happens Sep 24 15:31:40 judging from fceux it will run like garbage Sep 24 15:32:26 sampson: do you know for sure scumm needs that gst plugin Sep 24 15:32:33 and you looked at the configure script? Sep 24 15:32:34 if you want mpeg playback yes Sep 24 15:32:37 you can disable it Sep 24 15:33:07 basically you can do it with sdl only Sep 24 15:33:14 if you really want to Sep 24 15:33:23 what would mpeg playback be used for Sep 24 15:33:33 the later games that had mpeg movies Sep 24 15:33:35 scumm looks like a emulator/wine type of thing Sep 24 15:33:39 oh Sep 24 15:33:50 it's a virtual machine used for old lucas arts games Sep 24 15:34:05 monkey island, day of the tentacle, sam & max etc Sep 24 15:34:15 monkey island :D Sep 24 15:34:30 that needs a special vm? Sep 24 15:34:37 i thought monkey island was a dos game Sep 24 15:34:41 no Sep 24 15:34:45 it interperates the scripts of the game Sep 24 15:34:48 i had it on DOS Sep 24 15:34:48 it doesn't run the binaries Sep 24 15:35:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ScummVM Sep 24 15:35:30 the engine itself is entirely SDL Sep 24 15:36:02 but to have "cd" playback you need either FLAC or MP3 support, movies require the gst plugin and if you want compressed games you need zlib support Sep 24 15:36:08 Scumm let lucasarts port Monkey Island and others to multiple platforms Sep 24 15:36:18 Like Maniac Mansion on PC and NES Sep 24 15:36:26 yup Sep 24 15:37:26 This was a pretty good podcast about it - http://www.twit.tv/floss80 Sep 24 15:37:42 i figured it'd be a good start to try on the pre since it runs well on the iphone Sep 24 15:41:15 sampson: well then look in that cvs site i showed you Sep 24 15:41:24 yeah i'm fooling around with it now Sep 24 15:41:25 and see if you can find a version of that plugin that works with 2.14 Sep 24 15:41:31 just going to try without all the prettys hit Sep 24 15:41:33 sdl only Sep 24 15:41:36 but you will probably need the base gst ebuild also Sep 24 15:41:43 sampson: that would be easy Sep 24 15:41:48 sdl builds fine Sep 24 15:42:05 and so does directfb Sep 24 15:42:06 well Sep 24 15:42:14 directfb 1.2 Sep 24 15:42:26 directfb 1.1 has a buggy build script Sep 24 15:42:27 yeah i built them from your ebuilds Sep 24 15:42:33 it uses the wrong ld Sep 24 15:43:10 to build 1.1 you need to rm /usr/bin/ln; ln -s /usr/bin/arm-none-...-ld /usr/bin/ld Sep 24 15:43:15 then build Sep 24 15:43:17 then when u are done Sep 24 15:43:28 change the symlink back to i686-.....-ld Sep 24 15:44:00 oh on a side note Sep 24 15:44:02 CMake >>> autotools Sep 24 15:46:28 why the fuck is this looking for bash just make the binary you pos Sep 24 15:49:05 sampson: "what" is looking for bash? Sep 24 15:50:53 the stupid configure script on scummvm Sep 24 15:52:31 and you dont have bash? Sep 24 15:52:35 just build it real quick Sep 24 15:52:40 not in the arm environment Sep 24 15:52:45 so build it Sep 24 15:52:50 i just did :P Sep 24 15:53:34 i did my ebuild wrong Sep 24 15:53:38 Compiling for x86... yes Sep 24 15:53:39 :( Sep 24 15:53:51 you did your ebuild wrong? Sep 24 15:53:53 yep Sep 24 15:53:57 what do u mean Sep 24 15:54:14 what did oyu have to make an ebuild for? Sep 24 15:54:24 scummvm Sep 24 15:54:30 there isn't one for arm Sep 24 15:54:39 one for arm? Sep 24 15:54:43 is there one at all? Sep 24 15:54:49 there is but it's x86 only Sep 24 15:55:00 so add arm to the keywords in it Sep 24 15:55:13 then do ebuild digetst Sep 24 15:55:16 then compile it Sep 24 15:55:25 it may never have been tested for arm Sep 24 15:55:31 which is why there is no keyword for it Sep 24 15:55:39 but that dont mean it wont work Sep 24 15:55:54 i know, i'm making my own ebuild Sep 24 15:55:57 i just failed at making it Sep 24 15:56:20 just copy the existing one... add arm to keywords, and disable gst...-mpeg Sep 24 15:56:28 would be how i would do it Sep 24 15:58:04 sampson: are you sure gst is needed Sep 24 15:58:08 i dont seem to need it here Sep 24 15:58:15 it pulled in libmpeg2 Sep 24 15:58:27 yeah i guess it's optional between them Sep 24 15:58:42 and its building scummvm with out anything modifications Sep 24 15:58:52 oh but thats prob cause i have x86 in my keywords :D Sep 24 15:58:57 so i dont have to add arm to stuff :D Sep 24 15:58:57 hurrrr Sep 24 15:59:09 yeah it dont look for the right compiler Sep 24 16:03:17 hrm Sep 24 16:03:20 i wonder why this fails like this Sep 24 16:03:24 i added something Sep 24 16:03:24 how did you get around sdl-config for fceux? Sep 24 16:03:38 get around? Sep 24 16:03:47 Backend... sdl, HQ scalers, MT-32 emu Sep 24 16:03:47 Looking for sdl-config... none found! * * ERROR: games-engines/scummvm-1.0.0_rc1 failed. Sep 24 16:03:48 i got scummvm building Sep 24 16:04:08 you are using emerge-arm.... right and not emerge Sep 24 16:04:14 yes Sep 24 16:04:24 i added ~arm to keywords Sep 24 16:04:28 and remade the digest Sep 24 16:04:33 and it still is trying to do x86 Sep 24 16:04:37 yeah Sep 24 16:04:44 thats cause the build isnt using econf Sep 24 16:04:50 its usinag ./configure manually Sep 24 16:04:58 and its not adding the right --host= command Sep 24 16:05:04 # NOT AN AUTOCONF SCRIPT SO DONT CALL ECONF FUCKS Sep 24 16:05:17 lol Sep 24 16:05:33 i added this Sep 24 16:05:34 if [[ $ARCH == "arm" ]]; then Sep 24 16:05:34 myconf="${myconf} --host=arm-none-linux-gnueabi" Sep 24 16:05:34 fi Sep 24 16:05:36 right above that Sep 24 16:05:40 which lets it compile Sep 24 16:05:46 but the compile fails towards the end Sep 24 16:06:04 add these to it to see if just sdl works --disable-mad --disable-flac --disable-zlib --disable-vorbis Sep 24 16:06:27 its not failing on that Sep 24 16:06:33 its failing on some assembly Sep 24 16:06:47 --disable-nasm Sep 24 16:06:51 maybe my cflags are too extreme Sep 24 16:06:52 it's detecting x86 still Sep 24 16:07:01 so it's trying to put the x86 assembly in Sep 24 16:07:10 naaa Sep 24 16:07:13 its using arm stuff Sep 24 16:07:19 Looking for C++ compiler... arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++ Sep 24 16:07:31 Compiling for x86... no Sep 24 16:07:40 check the nasm part Sep 24 16:07:43 it's not in the x86 Sep 24 16:07:53 because there's this in the ebuild Sep 24 16:07:54 DEPEND="${RDEPEND} x86? ( dev-lang/nasm )" Sep 24 16:07:58 yeah Sep 24 16:08:02 its not using nasm Sep 24 16:08:05 i can guarantee it Sep 24 16:08:09 i dont have nasm installed Sep 24 16:08:33 * PuffTheMagic disabled his cflags and see if that helps Sep 24 16:09:47 its failing on this file: engines/scumm/smush/codec47ARM.s Sep 24 16:10:18 afaik you should be able to disable the smush engine Sep 24 16:10:32 i'll try it when this fails Sep 24 16:11:59 is not needed? Sep 24 16:12:41 i dont see anything about that in the ./configure Sep 24 16:14:00 yeah that's not an engine i'm looking at the source Sep 24 16:17:05 well idk asm so this is over my head Sep 24 16:25:42 AnOutsider, ping Sep 24 16:28:59 nvm Sep 24 16:36:44 mornin folks Sep 24 16:36:54 are there amazing new internets for the pre today? Sep 24 16:37:39 heh Sep 24 16:37:42 well im here now if u need me Sep 24 16:38:55 boo, i thought today was supposed to be big.. this is like the Guard Dog class for TF2 Sep 24 16:54:31 AnOutsider, I was going to say instead of my idea calculating md5sums of the new theme images and saving them, verifying the .bak md5sum matches the md5sum of the file from /usr/lib/ipkg/info/*.md5sums before restoring the .bak might be the better way Sep 24 17:01:37 hmm, i re-read that a few times and its still not clicking haha Sep 24 17:01:44 been up since 3AM so forgive me Sep 24 17:02:12 so u mean verify the .bak file matches the md5sums file thats created on install? Sep 24 17:02:25 wont it be an md5 of the files that will be replaced tho? Sep 24 17:06:59 hey does anybody have the rebuilt gstreamer that ajames was working on? Sep 24 17:07:00 damn people love themes, the number almost doubles everytime I check preware Sep 24 17:07:32 heh, people like customizing Sep 24 17:07:45 I go thru a few a day but usually end up sticking wth some favorites Sep 24 17:08:34 punzada: gah Sep 24 17:08:48 * Mousey goes and looks for seahawks theme, even tho he doesn't follow football Sep 24 17:09:04 AnOutsider, let me explain it better that last comment was pretty packed Sep 24 17:09:26 You know there are /usr/lib/ipkg/info/*.md5sums that list all the files in Palm packages and their expected md5sums right? Sep 24 17:09:32 any word on update yet? Sep 24 17:09:51 gkatsev: no new internets for plam yet Sep 24 17:10:16 On install you could verify the existing theme file's md5sum that you are about to backup matches what is in palm's expected md5sums file. And then copy it to .bak if and only if it is correct Sep 24 17:10:37 :( Sep 24 17:10:38 then on uninstall you would again verify the .bak md5sum matched what is expected in palm's md5sums files and not restore unless it is Sep 24 17:10:43 * gkatsev waits impationtly Sep 24 17:10:51 but the "why thursdays" was important enough for palm to tweet about, clearing things up. Sep 24 17:11:02 the only time the .bak wouldn't match is a malicious overwrite or a palm update to the package (and thus md5susm files) Sep 24 17:11:02 gotcha egaud Sep 24 17:11:14 i was looking for the files, then realized I was in /var Sep 24 17:11:26 yea /var was my only holdup about that Sep 24 17:11:37 anyone know how far the gstreamer rebuild has come? i rebuilt it myself only to find out from palminfocenter of all places that ajames already did it sunday :mad: Sep 24 17:11:47 I don't know how an app catalog app is updated, meaning does the entire package get overwritten (thus removing the .bak files) ? Sep 24 17:11:54 im working on gst-plugins-bad for native xvid support but i don't wanna waste my time again if he already did it haha Sep 24 17:12:20 hmm, not sure on that Sep 24 17:12:30 but if it were, i dont see it affecting much Sep 24 17:12:37 the updated ap becomes unthemed Sep 24 17:13:07 I would think the updated app is a full ipk install. Sep 24 17:13:12 overwriting. Sep 24 17:13:18 AnOutsider, but if it left .bak there is no way to tell on uninstall if it were "updated" and thus you'd restore the OLD image Sep 24 17:13:42 DeCiBeL, that's what I would hope and it would render my potential issue moot Sep 24 17:13:59 since /var app-catalog apps don't give md5sums files Sep 24 17:14:01 LOL Sep 24 17:14:23 I mean trhat's what I expect, since when you try to "UPDATE" when your at the 50 install limit, it denies you. Sep 24 17:14:32 so I would assume its tryting to "install" the ipk Sep 24 17:14:43 probably with the -upgrade switch Sep 24 17:15:26 I guess I could probably test with filecoaster hoembrew since they use the same API Sep 24 17:15:34 or just wait for an app catalog update to test Sep 24 17:15:36 leathal forgive my ignorance here (i'm pretty bad when it comes to how gstreamer handles multimedia formats) but would xvid support also include avi container? or just xvid within mp4? Sep 24 17:16:16 egaudet_work: re: the theme and patch stuff Sep 24 17:16:35 n Sep 24 17:16:40 im not getting into this Sep 24 17:16:46 lol Sep 24 17:17:34 you don't have to get into it but anytime you can poke holes in my ideas please do Sep 24 17:19:27 egaudet_work: well for the patches Sep 24 17:19:33 instead of messing with all this md5 shit Sep 24 17:19:40 why not just use patch --dry-run first Sep 24 17:19:45 and see if its succeeds Sep 24 17:19:54 and if it does then apply for real Sep 24 17:20:35 cause a patch "could" apply fine even if the md5 isnt the same Sep 24 17:20:41 OH LOOK! A VIRTUAL KEYBOARD UPDATE! Sep 24 17:20:53 lets see if i can do it without borking it this time ^_^ Sep 24 17:21:02 PuffTheMagic, that's what i am doing Sep 24 17:21:21 but the md5sum is for recovery protection Sep 24 17:21:37 recovery protection? Sep 24 17:22:01 in the event that people's files get screwed up by some other installer, method or manual crap and the patch can't unapply Sep 24 17:22:09 I want to recover with a backup file Sep 24 17:22:18 but I can't just blindly use the backup because an OTA might have occurred Sep 24 17:22:31 i would not do this Sep 24 17:23:19 why not? Sep 24 17:23:59 drum roll Sep 24 17:24:04 it puts a nice box of protection around all patches in the system, with a nice easy recovery solution Sep 24 17:24:06 YAY!!!! Sep 24 17:24:11 * Mousey buys egaudet_work another b33r Sep 24 17:24:20 nice! :) Sep 24 17:24:30 egaudet_work: im not following, how are md5's gonna help you restore stuff Sep 24 17:24:37 egaudet_work: good point about installing the old image Sep 24 17:24:43 and lets say you apply 5 patches to fileA Sep 24 17:24:52 might be a "remove before updating" thing. we'll see if users listen tho Sep 24 17:24:53 then try to unapply one of them Sep 24 17:24:57 and the unapply fails Sep 24 17:25:05 why would it fail Sep 24 17:25:06 you are gonna just restore the file Sep 24 17:25:11 and erase all the other 4 patches? Sep 24 17:25:13 no im gonna say "too bad" i failed Sep 24 17:25:25 the md5sum comes for the EPR Sep 24 17:25:26 then what is this recovery crap Sep 24 17:25:29 Emergency Patch Recovery Sep 24 17:25:39 which goes through all of the patches installed, and restores the backups and removes the packages Sep 24 17:25:49 but i can't/don't want to restore backups unless the backup is the expected palm md5sum Sep 24 17:26:19 the applying/unapplying is just patch --dry-run, ok patch Sep 24 17:26:24 and patch -R --dry-run, ok patch -R Sep 24 17:26:32 i guess what im missing is why EPR is being run in the postinst Sep 24 17:26:36 or prerm Sep 24 17:26:38 which ever Sep 24 17:26:47 PuffTheMagic, it's not it is its own package Sep 24 17:26:55 EPR is a separate self-removing package Sep 24 17:26:59 with just a postinst and nothing else Sep 24 17:27:12 self removing? Sep 24 17:27:15 goes through the hidden directory used for patch control Sep 24 17:27:27 removes all installed patch packages, restores files and then removes itself Sep 24 17:27:52 the hidden directory contains list of packages installed and files touched Sep 24 17:28:17 seems like a lot of hoops to jump though Sep 24 17:28:44 * Mousey idly wonders if this magic hidden directory has something to do with the 60 app limit Sep 24 17:28:52 the only hoop jumping is the hidden control area for recovery in the event of unexpected problems Sep 24 17:29:31 egaudet_work: you know... Sep 24 17:29:36 Mousey, no this is not even currently existing hidden directory. It's a directory I am creating for new patch system Sep 24 17:30:17 egaudet_work: why not just use git :D Sep 24 17:30:29 to restore Sep 24 17:30:52 you could make a nice mojo front end for it Sep 24 17:31:01 people could create restore points Sep 24 17:31:12 and restore them Sep 24 17:31:14 pretty easy Sep 24 17:31:28 good afternoon Sep 24 17:31:34 hmmm Sep 24 17:31:45 punzada: it really depends on how simple it is to port the gstreamer-plugin packages. I'm looking at the TI DaVinci/OMAP DSP support for gstreamer and I can't see this being ridiculously difficult. Sep 24 17:31:47 how much space would git take Sep 24 17:31:59 egaudet_work: well... Sep 24 17:32:09 egaudet_work: patches are only touching .js files right? Sep 24 17:32:12 no Sep 24 17:32:17 what else? Sep 24 17:32:18 not necessarily Sep 24 17:32:22 not binaries Sep 24 17:32:25 sure Sep 24 17:32:28 Haven't looked at the code behind the video app that interfaces with gstreamer, worst case scenario as far as that goes is we'll have to rename all video files to .mp4 but they should still play Sep 24 17:32:30 so its just text Sep 24 17:32:35 binary patching is not YET implemented but plan to Sep 24 17:32:38 egaudet_work: im pretty sure you can put .git in /media/internal Sep 24 17:32:53 sym link it to / Sep 24 17:32:57 no need Sep 24 17:33:00 well Sep 24 17:33:01 k Sep 24 17:33:03 yeah probably Sep 24 17:33:49 i'd REALLY like to get my hands on either ajames binary or source because i don't want to be competing with him in case there's slight incompatibilities Sep 24 17:34:27 also pulseaudio is a motherfucker and i hate it so very much Sep 24 17:34:29 Well I'd have to check the entire fs before initially creating the git Sep 24 17:34:39 egaudet_work: what? Sep 24 17:34:55 if a user has a bunch of mods already I don't want that to be the base of the git? Sep 24 17:35:18 egaudet_work: why not let the user defiine their restore point Sep 24 17:35:25 egaudet_work: instead of you dictating it Sep 24 17:36:36 if I don't know where they are starting from, it will be hard to know what there issues are Sep 24 17:37:02 egaudet_work: you dont need to know what their issue is Sep 24 17:37:07 its not your responsibility Sep 24 17:38:13 egaudet_work: just recommend to people that they create a restore point from a fresh install Sep 24 17:38:16 and if they dont want to Sep 24 17:38:22 then you might not be able to help them Sep 24 17:38:57 so now they can create multiple restore points Sep 24 17:39:04 just as git tags Sep 24 17:39:08 they "could" Sep 24 17:39:12 now they go back to some git tag Sep 24 17:39:30 should i create a branch and let them start working off that Sep 24 17:39:45 no need for branchs Sep 24 17:40:24 so if they do 3 patches, restore point, another 2, restore point, another 3 restore point Sep 24 17:40:27 egaudet_work: i would have to make you a git service :D Sep 24 17:41:50 so what would going back to a restore point do to future restore points? Sep 24 17:42:23 well if you go back to the oldest restore point, the gui should probably delete the more recent tags Sep 24 17:42:29 and it should use git diff/log Sep 24 17:42:37 to figure out what files were touched Sep 24 17:42:44 and compare that do your patch list Sep 24 17:42:48 of touched files Sep 24 17:43:03 so that you can remove the appropriate patches Sep 24 17:43:05 or Sep 24 17:43:12 store a list of applied patches somewhere Sep 24 17:43:22 somwhere not tracked by git Sep 24 17:43:31 guess no one here has any info :( Guess I'll keep reading up on TI's gstreamer implementation and try to see if I can get in contact with ajames' later. Sep 24 17:43:33 then use that to remove the patch for the ipkg info Sep 24 17:44:25 the ipkg info would be in git no? Sep 24 17:44:39 so restore point would "remove" the package Sep 24 17:44:43 no Sep 24 17:44:46 i wouldnt do that Sep 24 17:44:52 cause then it would remove traces of the app Sep 24 17:44:53 why Sep 24 17:44:58 i mean Sep 24 17:45:10 it would also remove evidence that apps were installed Sep 24 17:45:14 you just care about the patches Sep 24 17:45:16 anything you installed after that restore point would be gone, no traces Sep 24 17:45:23 egaudet_work: no Sep 24 17:45:37 egaudet_work: you are only gonna be tracking /usr/palm/applications Sep 24 17:45:37 what do you mean no Sep 24 17:45:41 and a few other choice directories Sep 24 17:45:43 i would imagine Sep 24 17:45:48 you wouldnt be tracking /var Sep 24 17:45:56 no Sep 24 17:45:59 i would be tracking / Sep 24 17:46:02 no Sep 24 17:46:08 why not Sep 24 17:46:20 forget the whole patching thing now, this is a good idea for restore points period Sep 24 17:46:31 cause you dont need to be tracking binary apps and .so's Sep 24 17:46:42 people can do whatever the heck they want and restore to exactly that point before everything Sep 24 17:47:09 well if you dont want it to be patch specific then yeah Sep 24 17:47:10 sure i do puff, for instance the user agent changer is a binary patch Sep 24 17:47:11 you could do that Sep 24 17:47:28 "user agent changer? Sep 24 17:47:48 there's a patch on precentral to change the user agent so mobile pages show up better or something i dunno Sep 24 17:47:57 oh Sep 24 17:48:44 I kind of really like this git restore point thing as a general restoration rather than patch specific Sep 24 17:48:44 well... i'd definately stay away from binary patches... just me... but if you dont want this restore thing to be patch specific then yeah you can backup the whole root Sep 24 17:49:19 what partitions are on the pre Sep 24 17:49:23 egaudet_work: well i would have to make a git service Sep 24 17:49:37 but then im pretty sure i could get oil to whip up the app real quick Sep 24 17:50:07 the app would be so simple to Sep 24 17:50:13 a list of existing restore points Sep 24 17:50:23 with a button for restore Sep 24 17:50:34 wipe it way to delete the restore point Sep 24 17:50:40 and a button to add a new one Sep 24 17:50:48 I like to think big Sep 24 17:50:51 just use date timestamp for the tag Sep 24 17:50:55 don't wipe away restore points, branch Sep 24 17:51:00 wtf Sep 24 17:51:05 a branch is not needed Sep 24 17:51:18 why do you keep brining up branches? Sep 24 17:51:38 i could have branch/restorepoint A be my pre with X-theme, and n-patches 5x5 launcher etc.. Sep 24 17:51:55 then branch/restorepoint B be different theme, different set of patches, 4x5 launcher etc... Sep 24 17:52:15 and why does this need branches? Sep 24 17:52:41 so i could expand on each? Sep 24 17:53:13 well i guess it doesn't Sep 24 17:53:21 go to A, add to it save it as C Sep 24 17:53:26 go to B add to it and save it as D Sep 24 17:53:38 wouldn't need branches right Sep 24 17:53:46 nope Sep 24 17:53:51 and if you do that Sep 24 17:54:07 its not gonna be easy to see if D was based on A or B Sep 24 17:54:43 Well that could be up to the user to name it something they recognize Sep 24 17:54:48 i would stick with strictly linear restore points for now Sep 24 17:55:13 so for git, i start with base tree Sep 24 17:55:17 add to it and create restore A Sep 24 17:55:31 well Sep 24 17:55:34 go back to base, add different stuff and create restore B, it would save the tree as base->A->B Sep 24 17:55:47 i would make my first restore with no additions Sep 24 17:56:17 well the first restore would be auto created as base Sep 24 17:56:23 no Sep 24 17:56:29 why would you auto create something Sep 24 17:56:43 when you dont even know what the person has installed Sep 24 17:56:46 because you need to init the git tree Sep 24 17:57:04 init the git tree and tag the base as base restore Sep 24 17:57:14 nope Sep 24 17:57:16 just git init Sep 24 17:57:21 no Sep 24 17:57:27 the user can create their first restore point Sep 24 17:57:30 you need a restore to starting point Sep 24 17:57:31 no need to automate it Sep 24 17:57:48 hmmmm Sep 24 17:58:29 ok, so I'm the user i have this app installed, I bring it up and say create restore blah Sep 24 17:58:39 the app says "hey no git tree, so lets init it and tag blah" Sep 24 17:58:57 no tag Sep 24 17:59:09 first time app starts it can do the git init Sep 24 17:59:14 or that coulx be part of postinst Sep 24 17:59:15 either way Sep 24 17:59:18 when a user creates a restore point it does: 'git add .; git commit -a -m "restore point"; git tag restoreA' Sep 24 17:59:39 the git init can just be a dynamic thing Sep 24 17:59:43 'git add .; git commit -a -m "restore point"; git tag $(date)' Sep 24 17:59:50 "if no git tree init it" Sep 24 17:59:58 the user only cares about "create restore point, and restore to restore point" Sep 24 17:59:59 right Sep 24 18:00:13 'git add .; git commit -a -m "$(date)"; git tag $(date)' Sep 24 18:00:22 i wonder if spaces are allowed Sep 24 18:00:23 probnot Sep 24 18:00:34 the user wants to "name" the restore point Sep 24 18:00:46 so git tag $(date)-$(name) or something Sep 24 18:00:58 rather than keeping a list of tag->name mappings Sep 24 18:01:15 list of tag name mappings? Sep 24 18:01:18 who said that Sep 24 18:01:31 and if some point in time after the git init, the git tree gets fudged, or they remove git or whatever Sep 24 18:01:50 instead of "error why no git tree", it would be "no git tree, creating one" Sep 24 18:02:01 ehh Sep 24 18:02:05 you are getting ahead of your self Sep 24 18:02:11 PuffTheMagic, the user wants to see the list of restore points based on what they named it Sep 24 18:02:17 not a list of dates Sep 24 18:02:37 they will get a list of tags period Sep 24 18:02:46 regardless if the tag is a date or custom entry Sep 24 18:02:48 right but you said "git tag $(date) Sep 24 18:03:19 cause i dont liek the idea of custom names Sep 24 18:03:33 cause then the user has to reemember what is relates to Sep 24 18:03:39 date cant be confused Sep 24 18:04:49 PuffTheMagic, that's the POINT of the name Sep 24 18:04:56 to relate it to something Sep 24 18:05:17 date is meaningless to the user, not like they will remember what restore they did 2 weeks ago vs. 10 days ago etc.. Sep 24 18:05:29 and it can and always should be an option Sep 24 18:05:39 name it or use date or use both etc... Sep 24 18:05:50 what makes you think a name is gonna be easier for the user Sep 24 18:05:54 if they cant remember what they did a week ago Sep 24 18:06:05 how are they gonna remember was is included in a arbitrary name Sep 24 18:06:15 egaudet_work: i can show a diffstat or something Sep 24 18:06:19 so people can see what changed Sep 24 18:06:23 for each restore point Sep 24 18:07:00 then no memory is required Sep 24 18:07:33 because i can name it "4x4 launcher pats theme" Sep 24 18:08:00 and remember it better than a date Sep 24 18:08:12 well what ever Sep 24 18:08:17 i can add supoort for a custom name Sep 24 18:08:26 actually Sep 24 18:08:29 how about this Sep 24 18:08:40 the actual tag is a date string Sep 24 18:08:42 the commit message Sep 24 18:08:46 that the tag is based on Sep 24 18:08:49 I'll help with the C service and Mojo too, this is gonna be awesome :P Sep 24 18:08:50 can be a custom description Sep 24 18:09:30 that's sounds fine but why do you want to dictate what the tag has to be Sep 24 18:09:31 then the main list will show dates, and there can be an option for "description" Sep 24 18:09:52 egaudet_work: cause the tag should be a nice machine readable id Sep 24 18:09:59 with no spaces Sep 24 18:10:03 and never a duplicate Sep 24 18:10:07 and timestamp guarantees that Sep 24 18:10:14 the commit message could be anything Sep 24 18:10:35 that still doesn't preclude you from allowing user to create a named tag Sep 24 18:10:40 and a bunch of timestamps would look nice and clean in the list Sep 24 18:10:47 you can append date, you can check for illeagal spaces etc... Sep 24 18:10:50 egaudet_work: why do they need to name the tag if they can see a description Sep 24 18:11:01 Because they may want to Sep 24 18:11:08 egaudet_work: this is all hidden to the user Sep 24 18:11:09 who cares about why Sep 24 18:11:24 no it's not because it is displayed when they go to look at all their restore points Sep 24 18:11:26 egaudet_work: the user wont know its a tag or commit message Sep 24 18:11:37 right the user doesn't have to Sep 24 18:11:44 egaudet_work: how do they know the restore points are tags? Sep 24 18:11:50 unless they are listening to this right now Sep 24 18:11:51 the user interface is "restore point" and "description" Sep 24 18:12:00 right Sep 24 18:12:07 the user wants to create the restore point name and see it in the list Sep 24 18:12:15 or choose "just use date" Sep 24 18:12:15 so timestamp: Sep 24 18:12:46 egaudet_work: allowing arbitrary text for a tag is a bad idea Sep 24 18:12:47 : Sep 24 18:12:53 and since the end user will never see the actual tag Sep 24 18:12:56 PuffTheMagic, you aren't allowing arbitrary text Sep 24 18:13:01 it dont matter were the user friendly text goes Sep 24 18:13:09 you are parsing arbitrary text, verifying it, appending uniqueness etc... Sep 24 18:13:17 i dont want to veryify shit Sep 24 18:13:20 that makes it more complicated Sep 24 18:13:21 the service controls the tag, the users wants to control the displayed restore point name Sep 24 18:13:37 you are right the implementation of that doesn't matter Sep 24 18:13:46 it doesn't HAVE To be in the tag, we can create a tag->name mapping Sep 24 18:14:08 egaudet_work: we get that for free Sep 24 18:14:08 tags can have commit messages too Sep 24 18:14:09 just like normal commits Sep 24 18:14:19 git tag -m "description" Sep 24 18:14:32 so tag can be timestamp and description is exactly that Sep 24 18:14:39 the list can show both the timestamp and description Sep 24 18:14:41 Ohhh ok Sep 24 18:14:55 so a nice long description for the commit, and a small message for the tag Sep 24 18:15:13 s/small message/timestamp/ then yeah :D Sep 24 18:15:38 i thought you said "tags can have commit messages TOO" Sep 24 18:15:51 the tag IS the timestamp Sep 24 18:16:02 yeah... Sep 24 18:16:02 what i mean is Sep 24 18:16:02 normally Sep 24 18:16:07 yes Sep 24 18:16:09 that is what i want Sep 24 18:16:13 but what i meant was Sep 24 18:16:20 for example Sep 24 18:16:25 i make changes Sep 24 18:16:27 then i do Sep 24 18:16:28 git add . Sep 24 18:16:32 git commit -a Sep 24 18:16:38 that would bring up your editor Sep 24 18:16:42 to save a commit message Sep 24 18:16:45 or you could do it inline Sep 24 18:16:47 WebOS doctor is giving me a headache. I"m trying to restore my phone clean before sending it back for an exchange. Can someone help? Essentially, everytime it restarts, it gets disconnected, and I have to start over - an endless loop. Sep 24 18:16:51 git commit -a -m "message" Sep 24 18:16:58 then you stillneed to tag it Sep 24 18:17:03 git tag Sep 24 18:17:06 but Sep 24 18:17:12 you could also give that tag a specific message Sep 24 18:17:19 git tag -m Sep 24 18:17:28 so "message" = long description Sep 24 18:17:30 so we could put the description in the commit Sep 24 18:17:38 and = displayed restore point (optional) to user Sep 24 18:18:15 right Sep 24 18:18:30 it dont matter if the description is in the actual commit message or the tag message Sep 24 18:19:12 egaudet_work: and we can use libgit Sep 24 18:19:17 so we dont need to actually install git :D Sep 24 18:19:32 :P Sep 24 18:19:51 and we want to suffix tags with webos version or something? Sep 24 18:20:17 egaudet_work: ehhhh Sep 24 18:20:22 we dont know what the webos version is :D Sep 24 18:20:45 egaudet_work: we can add that for 1.5 Sep 24 18:20:54 and in 2.0 we can add non-linear restore points :D Sep 24 18:21:33 we do know what the webos version is Sep 24 18:22:06 and it's on media/internal so OTA won't destroy it and it can be backed up Sep 24 18:22:20 and then people can have a bunch of restore points, say they want to go test something from 1.1.0, go restore no doctor needed Sep 24 18:23:12 egaudet_work: you figured out the webos version last night Sep 24 18:23:15 and didnt say anything Sep 24 18:23:21 cause last i knew you were still asking Sep 24 18:23:27 Rod posted it Sep 24 18:23:36 /etc/palm-build-info or something Sep 24 18:25:24 ahh Sep 24 18:25:25 ok Sep 24 18:25:29 i looked for that file last night Sep 24 18:25:35 i thought i heard about it ebfore Sep 24 18:25:42 but must have totally skipped over it Sep 24 18:26:35 can you read arbitrary files in mojo apps? Sep 24 18:27:30 yea as strings Sep 24 18:27:40 palmGetResource() Sep 24 18:27:46 ok cool Sep 24 18:27:55 so you can get that in the app part Sep 24 18:28:00 dont need to do it in the service Sep 24 18:28:06 At least that's what I can do from the framework js, so you should be able to from anywhere Sep 24 18:28:32 I mean the git history should know what webos a restore point was created from Sep 24 18:35:39 yeah butif you want to include the webos version in the descritpion you could Sep 24 18:36:21 true Sep 24 18:36:54 well looks like i got my work cut out for me Sep 24 18:38:25 I'll help, I'll get myself set up with a build environment this weekend for C service Sep 24 18:38:41 we'll crank this thing out in no time Sep 24 18:39:06 egaudet_work: im in the process of working like 4 C services Sep 24 18:39:19 so i could bang this thing out in a day Sep 24 18:39:24 the mojo i suck at Sep 24 18:42:08 so it will be ready by the time i leave work? Awesome Sep 24 18:42:33 ahaha Sep 24 18:42:42 hehe, I hate mojo too Sep 24 18:43:03 egaudet_work: ok sweet, this will be a fun experience for both of us then :D Sep 24 18:43:05 i dont hate it Sep 24 18:43:08 i just dont know it Sep 24 18:43:12 like i know C and java Sep 24 18:43:15 javascript that is Sep 24 18:43:23 but javascript seems easy Sep 24 18:43:26 from waht i;ve done Sep 24 18:43:27 I only will claim to "know" C Sep 24 18:43:30 its more the css that i suck at Sep 24 18:43:58 when i was doing the keyboard I tried so many css stuff pretty much having no idea what i was really doing Sep 24 18:44:18 egaudet_work: i have to start cooking dinner so the service isnt gonna be ready that soon Sep 24 18:44:33 keyboard made me learn a lot about it (and I did start with the mojo at first on the app level with some simple things) Sep 24 18:44:35 and i have to do some cleaning cause my cousin is flying in from France tomorrow Sep 24 18:44:41 you can't code and cook at the same time!? Sep 24 18:44:43 lol Sep 24 18:44:53 code, cook and clean :D Sep 24 18:44:55 yeah i can Sep 24 18:45:10 well I don't expect it to be done today, but at least it won't go the route of the file io service and be a forgotton item :P Sep 24 18:45:17 lol Sep 24 18:45:20 CuperMan Sep 24 18:47:22 lame Sep 24 18:47:25 lol Sep 24 18:47:35 egaudet_work: i didnt forget about the file io thing Sep 24 18:49:10 i know i'm just busting your balls Sep 24 18:49:43 it did get dropped in priority cause i wanted to start wIRCd :D Sep 24 18:51:00 yea it's definitely a lower priority thing, I mean it's not THAT hard to edit a json text in USB mode Sep 24 18:52:38 i'm gonna go grab some lunch, bbiab Sep 24 18:54:19 can i structure an if statement in javascript like this... Sep 24 18:54:50 if (this && this.value === (test1 || test2)) ? Sep 24 18:56:14 uh Sep 24 18:56:59 so, all you want to know is if this is not undefined and this.value is not undefined? so that should be "falsy' and test1 or test2 are falsy? Sep 24 18:57:06 uh Sep 24 18:57:15 I wouldn't write it like that. But I think it might work. Sep 24 18:57:28 but I would test for equality against undefined. Sep 24 18:57:34 okay Sep 24 18:57:44 i just didn't know if i'd have to expand out the if statement or not Sep 24 19:16:51 That statement above is equivalent to... Sep 24 19:16:57 var temp; Sep 24 19:17:00 if (test 1) Sep 24 19:17:07 temp = test1 Sep 24 19:17:09 else Sep 24 19:17:13 temp = test2 Sep 24 19:17:21 if (this && this.value === temp) Sep 24 19:17:31 which I'm not sure is what you meant HattCzech ? Sep 24 19:18:47 pretty much, except the else would be... elseif (test 2) Sep 24 19:19:39 nope Sep 24 19:19:46 Cool, got my nick changed on Precentral Sep 24 19:19:57 can one of you admins change it in the wiki? Sep 24 19:20:22 (test1 || test2) evaluates to (test1 ? test1 : test2) Sep 24 19:20:25 same thing Sep 24 19:21:11 test2 being null or undefined would be different for the === Sep 24 19:26:26 can someone with a pre handy confirm the presense or lack of /usr/lib/libcurl* on the pre? Sep 24 19:27:01 doctor image? Sep 24 19:27:28 so is that a no you wont do it? Sep 24 19:27:35 libcurl.so.4.1.1 Sep 24 19:27:45 shitty shit shit Sep 24 19:27:47 ok Sep 24 19:29:13 egaudet_work: did you look on the pre? or in the doctor image? Sep 24 19:29:16 :D Sep 24 19:29:17 i was about to link to 7.19 Sep 24 19:29:26 have to find a 4.1.1 ebuild :D Sep 24 19:29:29 doctor image Sep 24 19:29:58 egaudet_work: what about libperl? Sep 24 19:30:09 PuffTheMagic, why not just link to the ones from the image Sep 24 19:30:24 no libperl Sep 24 19:30:42 egaudet_work: cause then i have to copy them over Sep 24 19:30:46 and i still wouldnt have headers Sep 24 19:30:50 yep, same on the actual pre (though i knew it wouldn't be diff) Sep 24 19:30:51 no libperl Sep 24 19:30:52 so it would be hard to link against them Sep 24 19:30:59 so may as well just build the right version Sep 24 19:31:03 and not copy them Sep 24 19:31:06 and get the headers :D Sep 24 19:32:02 ok yea headers Sep 24 19:32:14 PuffTheMagic, just thought of something we could do with the restore point stuff too Sep 24 19:32:34 That's funny.. I can't believe Palm felt it necessary to respond almost immediately to the "Why Thursday's?" post on Precentral (via twitter, but still)... And hasn't felt the need to "confirm or deny" the rumor of 1.2 being delayed. Sep 24 19:33:11 have a "create stock 1.1.0 restore point" option, which downloads doctor extracts the image and creates the restore point Sep 24 19:34:28 hmm im confused Sep 24 19:34:32 i dont even see a curl 4.1.1 Sep 24 19:34:47 egaudet_work: thats ugly Sep 24 19:34:52 very ugly Sep 24 19:34:55 you just need to get the 411 on the curl Sep 24 19:35:01 LOL.. couldn't help myself. Sep 24 19:35:06 egaudet_work: dont think it should something that goes into version 1 Sep 24 19:35:24 Anyway, can admin's change usernames on the wiki? Sep 24 19:36:33 hmm Sep 24 19:36:33 egaudet_work: i have 4.1.1 on my gentoo box Sep 24 19:36:41 so must be similar version if not equal Sep 24 19:37:22 copy both the binaries to a pc and run a binary comparison on them Sep 24 19:37:24 I bet they are the same Sep 24 19:40:09 yea ok they can just doctor the phone, recover the .git and create a retore point for stock Sep 24 19:40:30 we will ignore /media, /dev, /sys, /proc anything else Sep 24 19:41:28 -> /var/run Sep 24 19:41:41 . /mnt /tmp Sep 24 19:41:44 it jus tholds state files Sep 24 19:42:06 yea Sep 24 19:43:04 what about /boot? Sep 24 19:43:08 You going to back up the boot partition? Sep 24 19:43:21 why not Sep 24 19:43:32 true Sep 24 19:43:58 so why not use lvm snapshots for this? Sep 24 19:46:51 teenage mutant zombie turtles? Sep 24 19:47:25 (sorry, non-sequitor) Sep 24 19:48:12 I'm not too familiar with lvm, what are the benefits over git Sep 24 20:07:38 egaudet_work: errr, lvm and git are not even remotely related Sep 24 20:08:16 He just means taking filesystem images Sep 24 20:09:29 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/202606-virus-webos-4.html#post1917633 Sep 24 20:09:59 For the purposes of restore points I was wondering what the benefits of lvm snapshots vs. git Sep 24 20:13:54 woohoo!! 1.2!! Sep 24 20:14:18 this was just a drill, had this been the real discovery of the 1.2 update, i'd be like the LAST to know about it Sep 24 20:16:28 speaking of.. anybody know when pre'll get one of those nifty bar code readers? Sep 24 20:21:40 Mousey.. Last I read, there was no access to focusing images for the pre which is what other apps for phones do. Sep 24 20:22:09 hmm Sep 24 20:22:56 focusing images? Sep 24 20:23:02 like image recognition? Sep 24 20:23:19 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/193905-app-request-barcode-scanner-via-camera.html Sep 24 20:23:24 kthxbai! Sep 24 20:23:32 Hmm, that's kinda funny Sep 24 20:23:46 I worked on a project like that when I contracted for a guy at lucent years back Sep 24 20:24:09 At the time they decided the image recognition was too much work for the device so it was offloaded onto a web service elsewhere Sep 24 20:27:59 and now there is: http://code.google.com/p/zxing/ Sep 24 20:31:38 We use code 2 of 5 at work which zxing doesn't have yet :( Sep 24 20:31:43 But still interesting. Sep 24 20:34:24 2 of 5? Sep 24 20:36:00 The type of barcode we use Sep 24 20:36:08 right, what is it? Sep 24 20:36:54 Believe it is part of the active reports package for visual studio. Sep 24 20:38:27 egaudet_work: im not messing with lvm Sep 24 20:38:30 ah, ok Sep 24 20:38:34 there are too many partitions Sep 24 20:38:39 or volumes Sep 24 20:38:59 and if people change sizes and and stuff, stuff might mess up Sep 24 20:39:17 git should work across all partitions Sep 24 20:40:45 I like git Sep 24 20:44:52 hey, where can i find a good one line description of what Luna is/does Sep 24 20:44:52 ? Sep 24 20:45:05 or two lines Sep 24 20:45:24 IPC Sep 24 20:45:30 ooh Sep 24 20:45:30 :) Sep 24 20:45:40 IPC for the UI and the underlying os? Sep 24 20:45:43 Palm's dbus flavour :) Sep 24 20:45:47 ooooh Sep 24 20:45:47 k Sep 24 20:46:15 most of precentral seems pretty pissed about the whole 1.2 issue Sep 24 20:46:17 but it is dbus underneat Sep 24 20:46:21 hey stefan_schmidt Sep 24 20:46:26 hey tmzt Sep 24 20:46:44 tmzt: (dbus) yup, but I still don't get what they changed... Sep 24 20:46:50 SMKOUT333: lol.. they have been pissy bout it since 9/8. Sep 24 20:47:01 they just wrapped it after they switched from their own Sep 24 20:47:11 the source is in the patches on opensource.palm.com Sep 24 20:47:42 SMKOUT333: but if everyone would stop and think for a minute.. the 9/8 was a SPRINT goof up.. then 9/24 was a "RUMOR", no one CONFIRMED it. Sep 24 20:47:45 honestly, its sad Sep 24 20:47:54 hey, the MicroUSB on the pre isn't OTG right? I can't plug in the b-connector cable and mount a USB drive, right? Sep 24 20:48:04 people relied on that web schedule release crap Sep 24 20:48:06 I get to keep my tweaks another week.. Sep 24 20:48:21 Mousey: it might not have detect but there's a gpio mux setting to enable host Sep 24 20:48:25 tmzt: ahh, just a wrapper to stay with their own syntax. Interesting. Sep 24 20:48:27 I was on the leaked 1.2 the whole time until just super early this morning Sep 24 20:48:33 or at least get another week of good night sleeps before I stay up all night trying to do a DIFF on the files involved in the tweaks Sep 24 20:48:35 tmzt: ooooh.. i should see if my cable for it fits! Sep 24 20:48:41 I was diggin the blinking led notifications Sep 24 20:48:47 miss em already (tear) Sep 24 20:48:54 SMKOUT333: that's all I am looking forward to. Sep 24 20:49:00 SMKOUT333: and smooth scroller in dialer Sep 24 20:49:07 there's led that blinks? Sep 24 20:49:07 BTW, if anybody here is interested in running another system then webOS on the Palm Pre you might find this interesting: http://www.freesmartphone.org/index.php/Palm_Pre_Challenge Sep 24 20:49:07 hell yeah Sep 24 20:49:10 huh? Sep 24 20:49:21 The lil center button with notifications :) Sep 24 20:49:21 We are trying to get the freesmartphone stack running on the device Sep 24 20:49:23 SMKOUT333: so why not just webosdoc back to 1.2? Sep 24 20:49:25 challenge? Sep 24 20:49:39 this is for the gsm phone? Sep 24 20:49:42 Im testing something for egaudet, which requires 1.1 :( Sep 24 20:49:45 tmzt: yup Sep 24 20:49:51 woo! i can do the lvm one! Sep 24 20:49:52 LOL.. he talked you into it? Sep 24 20:49:55 thats the ONLY reason :P Sep 24 20:49:57 your the ALPHA one Sep 24 20:49:58 tmzt: We start the day when O2 sells them here in .de :) Sep 24 20:50:08 Yeah he put out a psa and no one really bit Sep 24 20:50:09 EPR EPR! Sep 24 20:50:12 stefan_schmidt: has Palm released their build recipes Sep 24 20:50:18 I told him I would Sep 24 20:50:22 tmzt: no Sep 24 20:50:25 but nayyy.. he denied me. Sep 24 20:50:27 did you? Sep 24 20:50:32 Its pretty cool Sep 24 20:50:35 so you want to use shr/oe instead? Sep 24 20:50:38 We have not released our build tree/etc Sep 24 20:50:39 tmzt: I'm setting up a palmpre machine and kernel recipe in OE right now. Sep 24 20:50:39 but doesnt work all that well :( Sep 24 20:50:43 tmzt: yes Sep 24 20:50:55 he denied you? Why!? Sep 24 20:51:07 Mousey: heh, thanks already have somebody for this, but be welcome to help out. Sep 24 20:51:16 why kboot/kexec? Sep 24 20:51:17 dBsooner, when you say tweaks you mean from quick install? Sep 24 20:51:19 SMKOUT333: lol.. j/k.. I said I would but then he got busy doing other things. He may have missed me saying, "OK" Sep 24 20:51:34 ah, gotcha Sep 24 20:51:38 egaudet_work: More or less. Sep 24 20:51:39 stefan_schmidt: fraid'a competition?? =) Sep 24 20:51:49 Aren't the tweaks just QI's way of handling certain patches that are scattered around the wiki and gitorious and precentral Sep 24 20:51:49 stefan_schmidt: Palm's kernel is based on the ti and a vendor's version, not the upstream omap tree Sep 24 20:52:04 tmzt: we want to build the kernel from the source and boot into it while keeping the original system around Sep 24 20:52:04 egaudet_work: yes Sep 24 20:52:05 yes thats correct egaudet Sep 24 20:52:15 egaudet_work: But they will still need to be mod'd to be 1.2 compat. Sep 24 20:52:26 most work just fine :) Sep 24 20:52:26 tmzt: if that costs to much time we will shortcur by changing the uImages. :) Sep 24 20:52:32 stefan_schmidt: an upstream kernel should work, the Pre is basically a reference omap3430 device with some changes Sep 24 20:52:35 well assuming the package they touch changes in 1.2 :D Sep 24 20:52:38 Except the lansdscape email and messaging Sep 24 20:52:46 root@castle:/# modprobe usbstorage Sep 24 20:52:46 FATAL: Module usbstorage not found. Sep 24 20:52:47 BTW, you all can't make FuN oF mY NiCk NAmE AnyMore! Sep 24 20:52:48 BOOO!!!! Sep 24 20:52:56 but yea, i'm working on getting everything in good order and patch-as-ipk so easy maintaining/installing/uninstalling Sep 24 20:53:00 I guess this is mickeyl's how quick can you do an "anti-vendor" port thing? Sep 24 20:53:20 SMKOUT333, run into any serious troubles with the autopatch testing? Sep 24 20:53:21 1.2 kept most all patches in working order :) Sep 24 20:53:23 I am on the verge of thinking just about every package will change in 1.2 Sep 24 20:53:33 tmzt: (kernel) I know, but for this time we wanna go with just building what palm offers. Later we are open and interested in a kernel port but for know we focus on FSO and getting a voice call going Sep 24 20:53:39 just like it did in 1.1.0.. when they added the */ COPYRIGHT PALM 2009 */ to it Sep 24 20:53:40 not serious trouble, but some just plain didnt work :( Sep 24 20:53:45 Mousey: (competition) never! :) Sep 24 20:53:53 Roam Only installed next (works perfect) Sep 24 20:54:02 virtual kb installed first Sep 24 20:54:09 somehow I think gps will be the hard part Sep 24 20:54:10 that's the one that surprised me Sep 24 20:54:11 Actual Percent Installed 3rd (NON-working) Sep 24 20:54:20 SMKOUT333: i am really suprised vk worked flawlessly Sep 24 20:54:30 More Icons Per Row, (Error installing 4) (ironic as its the 4th patch I tried :P) Sep 24 20:54:35 tmzt: The point is mainly that we tried it the other way around for years now. OpenEZX, OpenMoko, gnufiish, omnia... Sep 24 20:54:45 Calendar Day/Month View installed 5th/6th (Works Perfect) Sep 24 20:54:51 dBsooner, vkb should not have any issues Sep 24 20:54:54 sure, I would say n900 next :) Sep 24 20:54:58 tmzt: We want a base we can build on and then start to exchange things that have better counterparts Sep 24 20:55:04 Messaging Landscape installed7th (works perfect) (2nd time didnt work for some reason ..?) Sep 24 20:55:12 egaudet_work: I thought it made a lot of patches to the stock os? Sep 24 20:55:13 Message Forwarding installed 8th (works perfect) Sep 24 20:55:18 tmzt: nope, not for us. Palm allows kernel flashing, nokia not. Sep 24 20:55:19 and simple cases like adding /* copyright */ should not stop any patches from applying unless they modified that line too Sep 24 20:55:19 Enable Landscape Email installed 9th (error 4)- Sep 24 20:55:33 oh sorry getting the convos confused Sep 24 20:55:37 but that would make the md5 different Sep 24 20:55:49 stefan_schmidt: oh? I didn't know that Sep 24 20:55:58 vkb will definitely NOT work for 1.2.0 because the framework version has changed (thus the directories and files are different) Sep 24 20:55:58 tmzt: (gps) hmm, depends it should just be the gpsone from msm. Depends on what the palm kernel offers. Sep 24 20:56:05 Palm doesn't even use kernel flashing, you just change the image on the /boot partition Sep 24 20:56:13 right, but what transport? Sep 24 20:56:17 tmzt: I stand corrected. :) Sep 24 20:56:30 tmzt: I bet rpc Sep 24 20:56:42 I'm thinking your gps stuff will work over dm and we would like to try it on msm7k also Sep 24 20:56:42 dBsooner, patches don't 'need' to be applied to correct md5sum'd file Sep 24 20:56:44 to push ephemeris Sep 24 20:56:49 tmzt: But as long as they offer a virtual serial port with NMEA I'm fine. :) Sep 24 20:57:00 do they? Sep 24 20:57:10 tmzt: no idea, hope dies last :) Sep 24 20:57:16 egaudet_work: I thought patches worked on line numbers? Sep 24 20:57:22 and chunk matching. Sep 24 20:57:27 tmzt: but I agree. GPS can get hard Sep 24 20:57:49 not sure if I asked this, but, why kboot? Sep 24 20:57:54 tmzt: Until now GSM with audio was always the hard part on every device. So we start with this one this time. Sep 24 20:57:55 hey SMKOUT333 any way you could write it up in a text file (the testing results) and send it to me whenever you are through testing? Sep 24 20:58:10 stefan_schmidt: right, but Pre is alsa based Sep 24 20:58:12 dBsooner, they do work on line numbers as well as context Sep 24 20:58:29 GNU patch can adjust the line numbers based on context and is good at guessing Sep 24 20:58:40 tmzt: Yup, that gives us hope. Sep 24 20:58:55 so it might not be officially "guaranteed" by GNU patch, but it should still apply if they just added a comment to the top of the file Sep 24 20:59:00 See, things have changed alot in GNU patch then. It used to be bad about it. Sep 24 20:59:17 tmzt: (kexec) We want to have a second stage bootloader which let us decide if we want to boot into our own system or into the one from palm Sep 24 20:59:19 but this was 10-15 years ago Sep 24 20:59:36 lol Sep 24 20:59:36 anybody know how the cmdline is set on the Pre? Sep 24 20:59:43 that's a few lifetimes Sep 24 20:59:44 tmzt: kexec did not sound that bad for this. But we may shortcut this when it makes to much trouble Sep 24 20:59:45 :P Sep 24 20:59:53 tmzt: Sep 24 20:59:58 tmzt: we will do when we have the device :) Sep 24 21:00:00 tmzt: cat /proc/cmdline Sep 24 21:00:07 yes I know Sep 24 21:00:10 sent pm on precentral really quick Sep 24 21:00:10 but how is that set? Sep 24 21:00:13 bootie Sep 24 21:00:14 PuffTheMagic: Not everyone has one around... Sep 24 21:00:16 ? Sep 24 21:00:44 SMKOUT333, have you attempted uninstallations and/or EPR? Sep 24 21:00:57 yes all work properly Sep 24 21:00:59 :D Sep 24 21:01:03 # cat /proc/cmdline Sep 24 21:01:03 root=b302 rootdelay=2 ro fb=0x8f600000 fbcon=disable console=tty1 nduid=6158970e08082c5b2fc543a2cc278d38acdb1db1 klog=0x8ff00000 klog_len=0x100000 boardtype=castle-dvt3 dsp_base=0x8f900000 dsp_len=0x600000 Sep 24 21:01:17 urgs, nice root device. ;) Sep 24 21:01:39 yeah, nice trick Sep 24 21:02:15 awesome good stuff Sep 24 21:02:28 tmzt: as I said getting it to run is fine for us even without kexec Sep 24 21:02:57 ok, right Sep 24 21:03:10 tmzt: I just dreamed about a nice second stage bootloader based on kexec/kboot with a fancy fb UI to choose the kernel+system :) Sep 24 21:03:16 But this all can wait Sep 24 21:03:31 stefan_schmidt: why do you need a second bootloader Sep 24 21:03:33 kexec doesn't work so well on arm unfortunately Sep 24 21:03:37 stefan_schmidt: just overwrite the existing one Sep 24 21:03:42 hmm, machine seems to be fine in OE now, but the kernel recipe makes trouble Sep 24 21:04:16 PuffTheMagic: You mean the one on ext3? As the bootrom code itself is in the SoC? Sep 24 21:04:33 stefan_schmidt: there is non on ext3 Sep 24 21:04:33 bootie? Sep 24 21:04:37 the bootloader is in ROM Sep 24 21:04:49 stefan_schmidt: you can build xloader/uboot for the pre Sep 24 21:04:55 ok, that one I don't want to override Sep 24 21:05:02 stefan_schmidt: why not Sep 24 21:05:09 that is your only choice Sep 24 21:05:23 yeah, it boots from sd Sep 24 21:05:31 PuffTheMagic: When I b0rk it webdoctor will no longer work? Sep 24 21:05:32 not sure where bootie comes into it Sep 24 21:05:39 hmm Sep 24 21:06:00 I always thought bootrom on SoC -> second stage loader on ext3 -> kernel from ext3 Sep 24 21:06:10 But you guys must know better Sep 24 21:06:46 Is there something about the boot chain in the wiki? Sep 24 21:06:50 You can build your own loader I'm sure, but there's no guarantee you'll get it to configure the clocks, vregs, gpios, etc correctly Sep 24 21:07:43 well, I want less trouble with such things at the beginning. Booting into a selfcompiled kernel which then boots into a own rootfs we prepared on LVM is all we want for now. :) Sep 24 21:08:21 You're assuming the kernel does all the configuration though, aren't you? You'd still be missing anything the bootloader does beyond simply loading the kernel image Sep 24 21:08:22 We should be able to rerach this by just building the kernel, set CONFIG_CMDLINE and put that on in place of the original one. Sep 24 21:08:28 chrisa: that stuff is all in soc right? Sep 24 21:08:34 or clock is external/twl Sep 24 21:08:43 chrisa: I don't want to replace the bootrom at all. Sep 24 21:08:50 and we can dump gpio mux settings Sep 24 21:09:02 kexec/kboot is fine to get loader from a 1-stage which sets up all this. Sep 24 21:09:07 but anyway, stefan_schmidt is asking what the best way to chain the loader would be Sep 24 21:09:31 It's probably more possible on pre, I'm not used to work with its boot chain as much Sep 24 21:09:39 Significantly more in tune with pixi Sep 24 21:09:44 than Pixi? Sep 24 21:09:47 yeah Sep 24 21:09:47 stefan_schmidt: kexec its not gonna be usefull Sep 24 21:10:01 stefan_schmidt: you can push a new bootloader over usb Sep 24 21:10:01 we're only familiar with htc spl on msm Sep 24 21:10:04 in to RAM Sep 24 21:10:05 All these technicla details are nice for later but I spent way to much time into kernel internal for RE projects that never took off. This time we take what palm gives us and concentrate on our userspace. :) Sep 24 21:10:06 and test it Sep 24 21:10:09 and you can work out the bugs Sep 24 21:10:13 before you write it to ROM Sep 24 21:10:26 if you really want to change the bootloader Sep 24 21:10:36 from that bootloader Sep 24 21:10:38 I'm just playing devil's advocate since that's all I probably should do Sep 24 21:10:42 stefan_schmidt: right, but you still need to change the fs that's mounted Sep 24 21:10:43 you could always chainboot the old bootloader Sep 24 21:10:46 if you need to webos dr it Sep 24 21:10:58 maybe you could chain Qi as a zImage? Sep 24 21:11:07 PuffTheMagic: yeah, we had the same situation some years ago on OpenEZX. bootloader into ram over usb that is. Sep 24 21:11:21 tmzt: pre dont use zImage's Sep 24 21:11:25 it uses uImages :D Sep 24 21:11:31 PuffTheMagic: But I dislike to change the original bootloader without having a working jtag setup ready. Sep 24 21:11:50 stefan_schmidt: well you could always boot into bootie mode Sep 24 21:11:56 or uImage, ok Sep 24 21:11:57 and then manually chain load a new bootloader Sep 24 21:12:03 every time Sep 24 21:12:04 but that is gonna be annoying Sep 24 21:12:14 or you could make a uImage and put it oin the place of the kernel Sep 24 21:12:16 PuffTheMagic: hmm, that means it can boot over usb even if the bootrom code is broekn? Sep 24 21:12:18 it uses symlink to find active kernel? Sep 24 21:12:18 broken Sep 24 21:12:25 stefan_schmidt: yes Sep 24 21:12:30 PuffTheMagic: wooow Sep 24 21:12:35 omap3 should be able to boot over usb Sep 24 21:12:37 stefan_schmidt: but i would dump the existing rom Sep 24 21:12:39 from it's rom loader Sep 24 21:12:40 tmzt: it does Sep 24 21:12:41 PuffTheMagic: No it all makes sense. Did not know that :) Sep 24 21:12:42 i've tried Sep 24 21:12:49 ah, great Sep 24 21:13:04 _Then_ playing with the bootrom is of course ok. :) Sep 24 21:13:14 i ma pretty sure bootie is a modified version of Uboot2 Sep 24 21:13:18 nope Sep 24 21:13:20 but not positive Sep 24 21:13:25 bootie is not a modified anything Sep 24 21:13:32 But for now a own CONFIG_CMDLINE will work. That means we can just replace th uImage Sep 24 21:13:41 People keep guessing that because some of the command symbols are similar Sep 24 21:13:58 chrisa: no i guess that cause uboot2 has fb support Sep 24 21:14:03 and bootie also seems to have fb support Sep 24 21:14:17 where as uboot1 does not support fbf Sep 24 21:14:18 There was someone in here who used to claim it was uboot as well Sep 24 21:14:18 fb Sep 24 21:14:33 chrisa: well it was probably me and destinal Sep 24 21:14:33 :D Sep 24 21:14:36 Pretty sure bootie is 100% in house Sep 24 21:14:41 no, the name started with a C Sep 24 21:14:45 i think we are the only one that have played around with custom loaders Sep 24 21:15:02 didn't geist write it? Sep 24 21:15:08 hey, anyone have experience with ajax and lists on webos? Sep 24 21:15:15 tmzt: i know he works on it Sep 24 21:15:23 i really doubt i was written from scratch Sep 24 21:15:35 since they seem to be using the OSS model for things Sep 24 21:16:03 nope Sep 24 21:16:17 chrisa: i know its not hard, i made a bootloader for my ipod :D Sep 24 21:16:35 well... i worked on Loader2 for ipodlinux Sep 24 21:16:35 parts of it are pretty old, but written by travis Sep 24 21:16:43 hmm, does uboot2 have omap3 support at all? I know the company behind it and they only work on powerpc and arm freescale and pxa boards Sep 24 21:16:47 I see code from 2001 that he wrote and used in it Sep 24 21:16:52 no omap the last time I talked to them Sep 24 21:16:56 stefan_schmidt: the beagle board people use it Sep 24 21:17:07 stefan_schmidt: you would probably need to add some drivers Sep 24 21:17:07 PuffTheMagic: oh, no longer uboot1? Sep 24 21:17:23 stefan_schmidt: im not an expert on this Sep 24 21:17:26 just what i've tried Sep 24 21:17:33 PuffTheMagic: ok Sep 24 21:17:40 This all has to wait anyway. :) Sep 24 21:17:42 and i've booted xloader Sep 24 21:17:48 then tried using that to chainload uboot2 Sep 24 21:17:59 First goal a working voice call with FSO. Everythiong else can wait Sep 24 21:18:06 but booties supports chainloading Sep 24 21:18:16 so i could probaly use that to chainload uboot2 Sep 24 21:18:20 PuffTheMagic: The information that it can boot from usb in any state is really great Sep 24 21:18:20 but since its not default Sep 24 21:18:24 its all pretty much a waste Sep 24 21:18:44 stefan_schmidt: as soon as it powers on the pre sends a signal over usb Sep 24 21:18:59 and if the right thing is listening you can write to its mem Sep 24 21:19:03 If we had this option on gta02 we would not needed the nor, debug board and stuff at all. Unbrickable by SoC design. Nice, Nice Sep 24 21:19:05 and load a bootloader Sep 24 21:19:14 ok Sep 24 21:19:26 yeah, that's omap3 Sep 24 21:19:58 stefan_schmidt: the beagle board site has some nice C tools to write to the omap3 Sep 24 21:20:04 i think i need to track them down again Sep 24 21:20:09 and host them in a webos repo Sep 24 21:20:13 PuffTheMagic: heh Sep 24 21:20:33 webos-internals that is Sep 24 21:20:50 PuffTheMagic: Did you try to send a kernel image over usb into ram plus cmdline and exec it? Sep 24 21:21:01 stefan_schmidt: you can do that with novaterm Sep 24 21:21:04 novacom Sep 24 21:21:08 That was really handy during OpenEZX hacking. Sep 24 21:21:10 great Sep 24 21:21:16 but! Sep 24 21:21:16 * stefan_schmidt feels home already. :) Sep 24 21:21:22 make sure you build a monolithic kernel Sep 24 21:21:30 cause if dont.. the modules wont be in place Sep 24 21:21:44 well, they will be in our own rootfs :) Sep 24 21:21:58 but a monolithic kernel is also fine Sep 24 21:22:05 leathal, ping Sep 24 21:22:16 stefan_schmidt: hold up Sep 24 21:22:21 you can reboot your pre Sep 24 21:22:24 and get into bootie mode Sep 24 21:22:28 then using novaterm Sep 24 21:22:33 you can see the bootie prompt Sep 24 21:22:35 and load a kernel Sep 24 21:22:38 that is on the userland Sep 24 21:22:42 that is really easy Sep 24 21:22:45 but Sep 24 21:22:45 i come home and there is no 1.2 :( Sep 24 21:22:50 if u just want to load a kernel Sep 24 21:22:56 novacom boot mem:// < kernel.uimage Sep 24 21:23:00 you can also do Sep 24 21:23:19 novaterm with bootie? Sep 24 21:23:25 so it uses the same mux protocol? Sep 24 21:23:33 ok, that sounds really useful Sep 24 21:23:42 so you can compile CMDLINE into the kernel Sep 24 21:23:47 yup Sep 24 21:23:56 can you set the cmdline with bootie/novacom though? Sep 24 21:23:58 And don't need to put it in /boot at all Sep 24 21:24:03 right Sep 24 21:24:11 man, that is really like OpenEZX work again .;) Sep 24 21:24:30 is novacom something from you guys or from palm? Sep 24 21:24:36 stefan_schmidt: you can hardreboot the pre Sep 24 21:24:37 android phones are the same, with adb Sep 24 21:24:38 by Sep 24 21:24:40 holding down power Sep 24 21:24:49 and then toggling the lock switch 3 times Sep 24 21:24:57 then immediately hold down vol up Sep 24 21:25:01 till it reboots Sep 24 21:25:06 and if u have usb plugged in Sep 24 21:25:09 it will go into bootie mode Sep 24 21:25:14 then use novaterm Sep 24 21:25:18 press enter Sep 24 21:25:20 wow, what a procedure :) Sep 24 21:25:23 and u iwll get a bootie prmpt Sep 24 21:25:28 then u can change cmdline args Sep 24 21:25:28 cool, cool Sep 24 21:25:31 and kernel Sep 24 21:25:35 u can even charge the pre Sep 24 21:25:37 :D Sep 24 21:25:41 Now I have to wait until 13. to test it all Sep 24 21:25:50 13? Sep 24 21:26:19 2009-10-13 the date O2 sells the pres in .de Sep 24 21:26:26 GSM zone here... Sep 24 21:26:56 ahh Sep 24 21:27:16 you sound like me 2 months ago Sep 24 21:27:22 all this kernel and bootloader ambition Sep 24 21:27:47 PuffTheMagic: Well, not that eager here to test it all out, but knowing what you hack on is always good. Sep 24 21:28:11 PuffTheMagic: I worked on to much reverse engineering projects for phones over the last years. Sep 24 21:28:31 This time I want only to get our userspace going first Sep 24 21:28:55 If other people like to work on the kernel side that's fine, but for me the palm kernel is enough for now Sep 24 21:31:19 chrisa, bootie is modified/taken from the roots of geist's "lt" (little kernel) project i thought Sep 24 21:31:22 egaudet_sleep: pinggg :) Sep 24 21:32:22 Hypothetical question, if anyone's interested: would it be difficult to reprogram the inputs of the QWERTZ German Pre? Sep 24 21:32:33 As in Z = Y and vice versa? Sep 24 21:33:19 freakout: should not be that hard as long as they use a keymap in userland for it. If it is hardcoded like a gpio keypad you would need a patched kernel Sep 24 21:33:26 stefan_schmidt: well looking forward to when you have a pre Sep 24 21:33:40 freakout: Why don't you use the .uk version? Sep 24 21:33:48 stefan_schmidt: Locked. Sep 24 21:33:52 That should have the Z at the right place Sep 24 21:33:57 lol Sep 24 21:34:14 stefan_schmidt: Yes it should, but the German one is being sold unlocked. Sep 24 21:34:20 yeah i think the hidd just looks at the keycode and reports that up the stack .. probably might just need to replace some hidd startup option most likely Sep 24 21:34:35 freakout: indeed it is. funny that the uk version, also at O2, is locked Sep 24 21:34:42 strange country ;) Sep 24 21:35:14 PuffTheMagic: yeah, also lookign forward to it. You guys already did an amazing work in understanding how the pre and webos works Sep 24 21:35:23 stefan_schmidt: indeed. O2's UK press office would only say "It will not be sold unlocked *at launch*". Which implies it may be later... but I'm not holding my breath. Sep 24 21:36:07 freakout: ok, you a) find out where the keymap is set in kernel or userspace and b) patch this table Sep 24 21:36:13 bpdalino | work: I thought it would be pretty high-level stuff. otherwise the virtual keyboard wouldn't work as well as it does Sep 24 21:36:20 (right?_ Sep 24 21:36:35 freakout: maybe you are also able to fake the key later as bpadalino|work suggests Sep 24 21:37:18 it's a fun phone to play around with, that's for sure Sep 24 21:37:25 you can lose hours of your day putzing around Sep 24 21:37:42 PuffTheMagic: yeah, how did kernel work go for you? Sep 24 21:38:09 stefan_schmidt: cheers for the info! Sep 24 21:39:15 freakout: the virtual keyboard would use something like libfakekey I guess. Sep 24 21:39:44 freakout: The real problem is that the worng key code may arrive before you can intercept it. Sep 24 21:39:53 stefan_schmidt: where's egaudet_commute when you need him? ;) Sep 24 21:40:07 hmmmm Sep 24 21:40:10 bbs Sep 24 21:40:15 freakout: The clean way is to change the keymap. Question is where it is. :) Sep 24 21:40:46 something hidd loads I think Sep 24 21:41:47 tmzt: that would be good. bad if they would have put it into the kernel. Sep 24 21:42:00 stefan_schmidt: the phones out today? Sep 24 21:42:03 But then they would have the same problem for de/us versions Sep 24 21:42:14 tmzt: no, 2009-10-13 Sep 24 21:42:17 no, I think they hidd uses input devices Sep 24 21:42:27 ah, ok Sep 24 21:42:33 tmzt: today they announced the date and I start to prepare myself a bit :) Sep 24 21:43:09 if it is hidd that freakout can be lucky as the change should be pretty easy Sep 24 21:44:02 19 days before you get in line Sep 24 21:44:09 what do you think of the price ? Sep 24 21:45:34 bpadalino|work: well, it is in the range I expected. Sep 24 21:46:00 bpadalino|work: If you think of all the stuff they put into it it is not that bad at all. Sep 24 21:46:28 bpadalino|work: I remember the costs of building hardware from the openmoko days and it really sucks hard. Sep 24 21:46:55 oh definitely .. Sep 24 21:46:57 it's terrible Sep 24 21:47:08 bpadalino|work: omap3 is not cheap, all the other chips, custom antennas for good rf performance Sep 24 21:47:24 PuffTheMagic Sep 24 21:47:24 I wanna add a feed so that preware reads it Sep 24 21:47:24 do you know where a file i could modify is so that i can do that Sep 24 21:47:32 omap3 is somewhat cheap .. $30 in quantity ? Sep 24 21:47:37 the mechanical ID the did is amazing and hard to build I guess. A lot extra steps in the factory... Sep 24 21:47:38 but you are correct, things get expensive quickly Sep 24 21:48:24 well, not just PuffTheMagic, but does anyone know? Sep 24 21:48:25 bpadalino|work: well 30USD is not really cheap if you compare it to other arm chips like pxa27x, s3c24xx which are still used Sep 24 21:48:42 true Sep 24 21:48:50 people still use pxa's ? Sep 24 21:48:58 And then I don't know what displays are nowadays and multitouch, etc Sep 24 21:49:05 bpadalino|work: sure Sep 24 21:49:31 i thought pxa's went extinct Sep 24 21:49:40 i guess not Sep 24 21:49:43 bpadalino|work: the a1600 from motorola, sold in asia, is an EZX device which are all pxa27x based Sep 24 21:49:57 antennas are on msm6800 related chips though Sep 24 21:50:16 yeah, and Samsung has a few pxa3xx's still Sep 24 21:50:24 rwhitby: are you here? Sep 24 21:50:31 Depends, most move on to things like msm* as cheap all in one soc or pxa3xx or omap3 Sep 24 21:50:36 Decimate, i think he is gone for the next 10 days Sep 24 21:50:54 but soem old designs are still using pxa27x and only getting a fresh ID :) Sep 24 21:51:25 tmzt: yup, the omnia in front of me is pxa312. Pretty fast beast. Sep 24 21:51:25 oh i guess i don't hear about the pxa's since they are mostly for OEM's and ODM's .. not much hobbyist availability it seems Sep 24 21:51:47 may be Sep 24 21:52:39 so you did work with openmoko ? Sep 24 21:52:51 tmzt: (antenna) but need one that is integrated well into the case for good performance. These RF tests are like magic sometimes. ;) Sep 24 21:53:11 ah right Sep 24 21:53:12 ok Sep 24 21:53:34 bpadalino|work: yup, some kernel hacking at the beginning and FSO later on. Sep 24 21:53:46 neat Sep 24 21:54:16 bpadalino|work: And now we look for good new hardware. :) Sep 24 21:54:48 To sad the gta03 never made it. Some aspects from the pre remembers me at his design. Sep 24 21:55:07 But well, thats past, future is pre :D Sep 24 21:56:50 you think the pre is open enough for you to do some good work on it ? Sep 24 21:57:57 no one knows the answer to my question? Sep 24 21:58:18 Decimation: what's your question? Sep 24 21:58:27 i wanna add this feed Sep 24 21:58:28 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/autopatch/all/ Sep 24 21:58:31 to my preware Sep 24 21:58:39 bpadalino|work: I do. It has some glitches like powervr sgx but we can ignore that for now. Sep 24 21:58:45 i forgot the path to those .conf files Sep 24 21:58:55 tmzt: i just dont remember where they are :/ Sep 24 21:59:10 bpadalino|work: The biggest problem we always have with FSO is to find good hardware with linux support which allows to boot an own kernel Sep 24 21:59:27 ah, sounds like a good solution with the pre Sep 24 21:59:30 bpadalino|work: palm pre works here and he is also sexy which brings in a big userspace Sep 24 21:59:37 and the pixi for a cheaper alternative Sep 24 21:59:50 why is powervr sgx a glitch ? Sep 24 22:00:28 bpadalino|work: the pixi may cause problems due to the use of msm. But we will see the htc-linux hacker are making great progress Sep 24 22:00:55 bpadalino|work: Because it is binary kernel module that may lock us into a specific kernel version. Sep 24 22:01:15 We may like to change the kernel later on for a newer one with special features or fixes. Sep 24 22:01:24 But for now that is all ok Sep 24 22:01:49 ah gotcha Sep 24 22:01:50 It may even be possible to ignore the sgx chip for such people that like to have a newer kernel Sep 24 22:02:00 well, as far as i know, palm is not using the chip Sep 24 22:02:08 oh, really? Sep 24 22:02:19 yeah - everything done on screen is just done in software Sep 24 22:02:22 But they have a binary kernel module for it, no? Sep 24 22:02:26 hmm Sep 24 22:02:30 i am not sure about that Sep 24 22:02:34 They use directfb right? Sep 24 22:03:00 And they already paid the direcfb dev to hack powervr support into it years ago Sep 24 22:03:05 sgx is not used, omap2 fb is Sep 24 22:03:12 for another device they canceled... Sep 24 22:03:20 luna just kind of manages a direct frame buffer .. not sure if they have directfb stuff in there Sep 24 22:03:37 tmzt: strange. Why did the choose the omap with sgx then? it is available with dsp only as well Sep 24 22:03:57 not sure, do we know the sgx is really there? Sep 24 22:04:00 interesting, interesting Sep 24 22:04:20 I guess they plan to support 3d after differentiating the Pixi a bit, but Pixi has an ogles 2.0 capable chip I think Sep 24 22:04:23 the 7x27 Sep 24 22:04:26 tmzt: if it uses the ompa version that all refer to it would have it Sep 24 22:04:31 no module listed from modprobe Sep 24 22:04:38 they have a wifi blob Sep 24 22:04:40 sd8xxx Sep 24 22:04:43 * stefan_schmidt wonders Sep 24 22:04:51 I would like to get drm to work though Sep 24 22:04:52 some scsi thing .. usb gadget Sep 24 22:05:02 hmm, sd would be marvell I think. There is already a mainline driver for it Sep 24 22:05:05 some crypto stuff for the accelerated crypto Sep 24 22:05:06 also, sd8xxx is used but I think that's a gpl driver from marvell Sep 24 22:05:14 and libertas should also be usable Sep 24 22:05:19 and the bridge driver for the c64x+ dsp Sep 24 22:05:21 exactly Sep 24 22:05:29 * bpadalino|work hearts terminal application Sep 24 22:05:34 bpadalino|work: ok, so only the brdige driver. Sep 24 22:05:35 bpadalino|work: which is pretty open now Sep 24 22:05:44 at least on the new kernel Sep 24 22:05:51 is dsp used by anything but video playback? Sep 24 22:06:00 just video and audio stuff i am pretty sure Sep 24 22:06:09 bpadalino|work: the usbcomposite is for having more then one usb gadegt running. Like usb mass storage and MTP Sep 24 22:06:12 you can see the dynamic libs loaded to the dsp for decoding/encoding Sep 24 22:06:23 stefan, right Sep 24 22:06:32 bpadalino|work: yup, dsp for some codecs Sep 24 22:06:45 but TI is working towards a OSS solution here as well Sep 24 22:07:04 That all makes it future proof _if_ someone likes to get a newer kernel running Sep 24 22:07:08 right Sep 24 22:07:15 PuffTheMagic tried Sep 24 22:07:46 good, good, Sep 24 22:07:54 man I'm getting excited :) Sep 24 22:09:20 does the composite driver work ok with windows? Sep 24 22:10:12 it should Sep 24 22:10:21 Just offer two usb devices Sep 24 22:10:49 it's nice that the omap3 has enough endpoints for it. Sep 24 22:11:04 I tried it on the s3c2410 and that one did not have enough :( Sep 24 22:12:13 does omap3 have hardware endpoints? Sep 24 22:12:15 it's not pxa Sep 24 22:12:43 tmzt: hu, how would they do it then? Sep 24 22:13:19 not sure, but I mean it's not limited to a certain number of endpoints/alt functions like pxa is Sep 24 22:13:26 and can switch them without unplugging Sep 24 22:13:47 would be nice Sep 24 22:13:57 then composite would be even better Sep 24 22:14:15 * stefan_schmidt thinks about usb_ethernet plus usb-storage and some other things :) Sep 24 22:14:29 yeah Sep 24 22:16:43 there are a ton of endpoints on the pre Sep 24 22:16:50 and they have a lot of devices that live on there Sep 24 22:17:00 usbnet, novacom, mass storage Sep 24 22:18:13 so am i rite, there's no usbstorage? Sep 24 22:18:32 there doesn't seem to be a lsusb or lspci either Sep 24 22:18:39 (lol, lspci on a phone) Sep 24 22:19:09 Mousey: ? what do you mean? Sep 24 22:20:11 well i was thinking, if i could indeed plug in a b-connector microusb cable (OTG style host, as opposed to slave) then i'd probably need usbstorage to be able to read the attached drive Sep 24 22:20:17 (lol, usb drive connected to phone) Sep 24 22:20:41 ..i mean short of a kernel recompile Sep 24 22:21:01 Mousey: ah Sep 24 22:21:11 oh!! the config file is in /boot! i can see if it's built in at least Sep 24 22:21:12 nm Sep 24 22:21:15 Mousey: no idea if palm compiled and shipped this Sep 24 22:21:19 I would guess not Sep 24 22:21:47 my first concern would be the connector. like on the nokia n810 it accepts both host and device microUSB Sep 24 22:21:51 and i have both types of cables Sep 24 22:22:06 it just occured to me that i might try plugging a drive in Sep 24 22:22:18 that would be hawt.. the 1tb phone Sep 24 22:22:24 that would be pretty nice Sep 24 22:22:53 well if the cable fits.. the kernel's less of a concern, i can always rebuild that Sep 24 22:24:25 I don't know if Pre is fully OTG compliant or if you would need to change something on the system to get it running. But in theory it is possible Sep 24 22:24:44 yah, it has to be a hardware limitation before i'll be discourage ;) Sep 24 22:24:52 +d Sep 24 22:25:33 # CONFIG_USB_USBNET is not set Sep 24 22:25:39 thats weird, how does it tether? Sep 24 22:26:08 offering a cdc_acm usb serial device? Sep 24 22:26:51 # CONFIG_USB_OTG is not set Sep 24 22:26:52 boo! Sep 24 22:26:57 heh Sep 24 22:27:44 well there it is: # CONFIG_USB_STORAGE is not set Sep 24 22:27:52 guess a recompile is necessary anyway Sep 24 22:27:59 I'M NOT SKARED! Sep 24 22:28:06 i'll have to test the cable tonight Sep 24 22:34:57 This is a bit ridiculous. I have 3 touchstones, 3 backs, and something like 10 pixis now Sep 24 22:35:10 actually -have- a pixie? Sep 24 22:35:13 -i Sep 24 22:35:13 Mousey: keep us posted, the idea of a general homebrew enchanced kernel has been interesting me since last night (when i started thinking about the vague possiblity of ext4 support) and mass storage going the other direction would be even nicer. Sep 24 22:35:15 -e, i mean Sep 24 22:36:19 punzada: totally. i'll probably need a little hand holding setting up to cross-compile, and actually installing it, but i can totally get the right stuff baked in Sep 24 22:37:18 aww your cell phone has 8gb, aww your cell phone can take 16gb mini sd cards, my cell phone plugs into my 1tb wd passport! Sep 24 22:37:21 lol Sep 24 22:37:40 would be amazing. Sep 24 22:41:26 yannow i'm shocked there aren't any mini-usb thumb drives, none i can see at least Sep 24 22:43:35 chrisa: how do you have all that stuff? Sep 24 22:43:58 chrisa, you need more backs it seems Sep 24 22:44:10 * punzada is getting impatient Sep 24 22:44:18 Not really, since half those devices probably don't work with current builds anymore Sep 24 22:44:18 chrisa, and did geist ever give you any of his old boards you wanted ? Sep 24 22:44:21 all my clients are taking their time to pay their bills and I want to order a 2600 battery Sep 24 22:44:29 nope, you weren't convincing enough Sep 24 22:44:32 chrisa, or at least get an oscope ?! Sep 24 22:44:44 i'm terrible at convincing people to do things :( Sep 24 22:45:13 punzada: why do you want the beast battery? Sep 24 22:45:49 because I abuse the features on my phone and am a multitask whore Sep 24 22:45:53 Is that the battery that needs its own special back? Sep 24 22:45:56 yes Sep 24 22:45:58 ugh Sep 24 22:46:01 hehehe, yeah Sep 24 22:46:01 but its double the time Sep 24 22:46:03 DOUBLE Sep 24 22:46:06 lol Sep 24 22:46:21 i'd say invest in another charger :) hahaha Sep 24 22:46:21 actually most seem to report a 120% increase Sep 24 22:46:44 i went from my treo 700p to this... i don't want to go back ;) Sep 24 22:46:59 so chrisa, how did you get so much palm stuff? Sep 24 22:47:25 I get four hours of irc+msn/yahoo/aim + web browsing + occasional calling + high brightness & gps Sep 24 22:47:35 increasing that to 8 would be clutch Sep 24 22:47:46 heheheh Sep 24 22:48:09 wouldn't IRC on the pre be a pain? Sep 24 22:48:22 i use the same app I use on my home machine Sep 24 22:48:23 i love it Sep 24 22:48:49 i mean like typing and everything... Sep 24 22:48:54 * punzada shrugs Sep 24 22:48:56 i'm used to it Sep 24 22:49:11 okay, what app are you using? Sep 24 22:49:20 irssi in the terminal app Sep 24 22:49:26 + bitlbee for msn/yahoo/aim Sep 24 22:49:33 cool Sep 24 22:49:35 hrm Sep 24 22:49:43 i can't seem to get developer mode to get out of my apps Sep 24 22:49:51 think that will bork the 1.2 upgrade when it comes out? Sep 24 22:50:56 sampson: ? Sep 24 22:51:30 the permanent dev mode shortcut Sep 24 22:52:22 i'm just going to wing it with the upgrade... see how it goes :) Sep 24 22:52:34 things that don't work, i'll fix Sep 24 22:52:35 i don't want to have to do a master reset Sep 24 22:52:45 but i don't suggest others do that :) hahaha Sep 24 22:52:45 it took 4 hours ot activate my pre on the firs tgo... no evdo here Sep 24 22:52:47 I've doctored once already, so if I have to again i'm not too worried about it Sep 24 22:53:11 i'm waiting to doctor until 1.2 comes out officially Sep 24 22:53:17 which is seeming to take FOREVER Sep 24 22:53:19 just make sure you remember to sync all your contacts and hit the backup before the upgrade ;x Sep 24 22:53:28 i've been putting it off for a couple weeks now Sep 24 22:53:48 yeah, i plan to backup a bit more, like messaging db and stuff Sep 24 22:53:49 i use 2 exchange accounts so all my contacts are saved Sep 24 22:55:05 almost all of mine are google contacts, so they're saved Sep 24 22:55:07 i just REALLY don't want to have to activate my phone again Sep 24 23:04:15 ~[6~[6~it shoudln't? Sep 24 23:04:37 sorry Sep 24 23:11:27 sampson: you could always reverse tether :) Sep 24 23:12:04 sampson: or use wifi for that matter. Sep 24 23:12:10 not for the phone activation portion Sep 24 23:12:13 the profile downloads fine Sep 24 23:12:17 but the actual activation takes years Sep 24 23:12:31 sampson: ah, you could activation bypass long enough to get wifi turned on then run firstuse Sep 24 23:15:36 but how will the phone know my number and crap Sep 24 23:15:41 plus that won't work on 1.2 probably Sep 24 23:17:28 sampson: the msm chip knows your phone number Sep 24 23:17:29 stefan_schmidt: usbnet works out of the box on pre with "usbnet enable; reboot" Sep 24 23:17:33 what are you asking? Sep 24 23:17:49 no say I did a master reset using my MSL Sep 24 23:17:53 on ##786# Sep 24 23:18:05 it requires you go through the activation process again as it clears out the chip Sep 24 23:18:10 then you need to activate Sep 24 23:18:12 destinal_work: good to know Sep 24 23:18:13 right Sep 24 23:18:22 yes, and that took 4+ hours the last go-around Sep 24 23:18:28 which i don't want to do again Sep 24 23:18:32 sampson: you can skip activation, turn on wifi, run activation Sep 24 23:19:00 sampson: that should definitely work Sep 24 23:19:09 he needs the cdma activated Sep 24 23:19:37 tmzt: firstuse is what does that, I'm just saying to delay running it long enough to get wifi working for the profile download Sep 24 23:19:41 I'm not saying don't activate Sep 24 23:20:19 ah, ok Sep 24 23:20:30 I thought there was a way to just activate cdma Sep 24 23:26:03 stefan_schmidt: I've turned on usb otg mode in the chipset at least ("echo otg > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc.0/mode") and plugged in a micro-b male to standard usb female cable and then plugged a hub or keyboard in and gotten that device to power up off the pre, just no enumeration. so that to me would suggest we may need a different kernel Sep 24 23:26:31 destinal_work: that might be the mu settings Sep 24 23:26:34 mux Sep 24 23:26:49 does pre use ulpi transceiver? Sep 24 23:31:48 tmzt: I think the USB controller is part of the OMAP Sep 24 23:32:15 TWL5030 (?) Sep 24 23:32:40 right ok Sep 24 23:32:47 that's the PMIC, right ? Sep 24 23:32:49 so you might have to configure it differently Sep 24 23:32:51 yes Sep 24 23:32:53 well Sep 24 23:32:55 one of them Sep 24 23:32:55 bpadalino: yess Sep 24 23:33:03 5030? Sep 24 23:33:08 I thought it was a 4xxx Sep 24 23:33:35 http://www.phonewreck.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/logic1.jpg Sep 24 23:34:45 teardown? Sep 24 23:34:52 can you find one for mifi for me please :) Sep 24 23:35:15 I mean there is another pmic on the sbi bus I assume Sep 24 23:35:21 for the msm chip Sep 24 23:35:35 full teardown is here: http://www.phonewreck.com/2009/06/07/palm-pre-teardown-and-analysis-review-coming-soon/ Sep 24 23:36:01 MSM6801A Sep 24 23:36:30 still no mfi Sep 24 23:36:32 mifi Sep 24 23:37:36 oh, mifi? that handheld router thing? Sep 24 23:37:47 or something else? Sep 24 23:38:12 yeah, that one Sep 24 23:41:21 tmzt: hmmm, if there's a teardown for that one, I can't find it. Sep 24 23:41:37 I know Sep 24 23:41:58 I just want to know if it's msm6k based on has a dedicated processor/more like a router Sep 24 23:48:13 Arg Sep 24 23:54:36 tmzt: apparently the mifi 2352 a full fledged linux box with an 900mhz ARM (http://www.slashgear.com/novatel-wireless-mifi-2352-hspa-review-2147537/) and they have an SDK out for it. still haven't found what cdma chipset. Sep 24 23:55:39 they have hspa and cdma support both apparently Sep 24 23:56:30 I'm surprised, 900mhz seems a bit higher clock than I'd expect Sep 24 23:59:04 I'm so mad right now Sep 24 23:59:19 why ? Sep 24 23:59:37 no 2 Sep 24 23:59:41 *1.2 Sep 24 23:59:50 AND the app catalog is broken Sep 24 23:59:51 :/ Sep 25 00:00:24 didnt we get nearly confirmation already that 1.2 was going to be delayed and turned into 1.2.1 anyway? Sep 25 00:00:33 No confirmation Sep 25 00:00:35 just a romour Sep 25 00:00:43 And it doesnt help that developers have been out of the loop Sep 25 00:00:44 rumors have been pretty solid with the pre so far >> Sep 25 00:01:08 true Sep 25 00:01:15 But I have my fingers crossed Sep 25 00:01:23 The update app is also unable to connect. Hmm Sep 25 00:02:05 maybe they'll release it at 11:59p pacific Sep 25 00:02:15 They won't Sep 25 00:02:19 Palm doesnt do that Sep 25 00:04:11 Arg Sep 25 00:04:16 Update works again Sep 25 00:06:48 I'm stoked about 1.2 for developers sake but honestly doesn't have any other major changes that I personally can't wait for unless they slip something unexpected in that hasn't been dissected from the leak. Sep 25 00:07:15 Some nice fixes here and there though. Sep 25 00:09:03 It's kind of sad that not soon after I get home I rush to read this irc and precentral forums to see anything that's new with the phone, I think I have addiction problems. Sep 25 00:12:14 must have picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue Sep 25 00:23:08 preware broken for anywone ele? Sep 25 00:26:29 AnOutsider: broken as in.. Sep 25 00:26:41 Stuck on "Checking Version" Sep 25 00:27:15 http://screensnapr.com/u/9xok1i.png Sep 25 00:27:17 working fine :) Sep 25 00:27:33 time for a reboot then Sep 25 00:27:43 hmm Sep 25 00:27:49 cant just close preware and open it back up? Sep 25 00:27:58 clse and reopen preware and tap menu and update feeds doesn't fix it? Sep 25 00:28:01 gotta install mytether. Didnt realize iphone OS 3.1 broke tethering Sep 25 00:28:14 nope, been doing that off and on for an hour or so Sep 25 00:28:19 did you just say the i word... Sep 25 00:28:27 I did Sep 25 00:28:33 is the update app not working for anyone else? Sep 25 00:30:40 update app does not work for me, and someone posted a thread on precentral about 20 minutes ago saying it wasnt Sep 25 00:30:46 national downage? Sep 25 00:31:57 reboot did it Sep 25 00:32:38 ohh, someone is using 091 xD Sep 25 00:33:59 15 bucks, this ish better be worth it Sep 25 00:34:00 oil ;) Sep 25 00:34:18 AnOutsider: i coulda hooked you up ;) Sep 25 00:35:18 $15? Sep 25 00:35:19 Arg Sep 25 00:35:31 I gotta set aside money for taxes now Sep 25 00:36:03 gotta set aside? Sep 25 00:37:02 kesne: you're 15. Sep 25 00:37:22 So? Sep 25 00:42:21 * oil usually gets money from the irs Sep 25 00:42:50 haha, well if it works well, then i guess its worth the donation Sep 25 00:42:54 but damn, $5 Sep 25 00:46:05 hello all Sep 25 00:48:23 gday Sep 25 00:49:55 Kinda dead in here now huh Sep 25 00:50:26 shh Sep 25 00:50:32 * oil is too busy writing code to be chatty Sep 25 00:50:39 * Mousey huggles oil Sep 25 00:50:52 Hehe Sep 25 00:51:24 what is oil working on exactly? Sep 25 00:53:20 preware Sep 25 00:54:29 egaudet: hi :) Sep 25 00:54:41 Decimation, hi Sep 25 00:54:52 egaudet: tested out the patch ipks from the autopatch repo Sep 25 00:55:05 :D how are they going? Sep 25 00:55:05 added the conf file so preware would pick it up :P Sep 25 00:55:18 great - now we just need to get descriptions written and add screenshots. Sep 25 00:55:52 yea, and we need to create .patch files from the rest of the mods on gitorious and precentral Sep 25 00:56:50 ill take a screenshot of all of them if you want? Sep 25 00:56:58 some of them have descriptions but I put ??? for the ones I didn't know about or never used Sep 25 00:57:08 Please, anything you can contribute is welcome Sep 25 00:57:51 most had the ??? Sep 25 00:58:06 but the names were self explanatory Sep 25 00:58:09 :P Sep 25 00:59:26 And if anyone wants to add descriptions, screenshots, or anything the repo is open. The autobuilder gets that stuff from simple variables in their Makefiles Sep 25 00:59:50 dont forget proper categories Sep 25 01:00:59 talk to me if you need to modify any of the template/common stuff in the autopatch/ base directory Sep 25 01:01:23 common.mk, modifications.mk, postinst and prerm Sep 25 01:03:21 egaudet: where do i go to edit descriptions and such? Sep 25 01:03:50 in the build.git repo Sep 25 01:04:05 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=summary Sep 25 01:04:20 in the autopatch/ directory contains all of the patch directories Sep 25 01:04:24 yeah, i just dont know how to work all that stuff :P Sep 25 01:04:26 in each patch there is a simple Makefile Sep 25 01:04:43 You'll see inside the Makefile "TITLE = Amazon Store EVDO" Sep 25 01:05:01 and "DESCRIPTION = Allow the Amazon Store..." etc Sep 25 01:05:03 okay Sep 25 01:05:06 im in the makefile Sep 25 01:05:17 im here Sep 25 01:05:18 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=tree;f=autopatch/add-delete-pages-in-the-launcher;h=913eba84809c972ffbb32c6d156f4aed99ebd0f8;hb=HEAD Sep 25 01:05:24 the makefile for the add-delete-pages patch Sep 25 01:05:28 now how do i change something. Sep 25 01:05:55 open it with your favorite editor Sep 25 01:06:06 text Sep 25 01:06:17 then how do i make the change show up on the git Sep 25 01:06:29 have to commit and push it Sep 25 01:06:45 well bump the version number before that if you want the autobuilder to build it Sep 25 01:07:30 and you can add SCREENSHOTS= [\"http://\", \"http://\"] Sep 25 01:07:37 with the images Sep 25 01:07:45 add it under DESCRIPTIONS Sep 25 01:08:04 ICON = http://... Sep 25 01:09:08 hey has anyone been able to get winscp with the emulator on windows7 Sep 25 01:20:24 Joesmith Sep 25 01:20:25 yes Sep 25 01:21:42 I am getting connectio refused any ideas? Sep 25 01:21:59 I can ssh into just fine Sep 25 01:23:12 change your host name to Sep 25 01:23:15 127.0.0.1 Sep 25 01:23:52 thats is what I am using Sep 25 01:24:22 did you setup sftp access? Sep 25 01:24:29 are you using the right username you created? Sep 25 01:24:35 nor on the emulator..... Sep 25 01:24:52 not* Sep 25 01:24:55 i ran the optware script which created the username Sep 25 01:25:00 thats what i was meaning. Sep 25 01:25:28 I am using roots Sep 25 01:25:32 root Sep 25 01:25:35 roots lol Sep 25 01:26:41 meh Sep 25 01:26:51 i cant reenable sounds for some reason.. Sep 25 01:26:54 :/ Sep 25 01:32:42 I just added the messaging-orientation patch because the existing landscape one doesn't work for me Sep 25 01:33:02 so i got my free airave from sprint today :) Sep 25 01:33:13 nice Sep 25 01:33:25 seriously though i cant re-enable sound Sep 25 01:33:31 and im at a loss, all the volume and ringtones are up Sep 25 01:33:38 restart your phone Sep 25 01:33:42 have you used the music player? Sep 25 01:33:56 i just restarted Sep 25 01:33:57 and yes i have Sep 25 01:34:21 nvm figured it out Sep 25 01:36:18 Just finished sending an angry email to palm Sep 25 01:36:23 why? Sep 25 01:36:33 Long story Sep 25 01:38:29 !seen ajames Sep 25 01:38:34 ~seen ajames Sep 25 01:38:38 ajames was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 3d 20h 24m 57s ago, saying: 'like greasemonkey for firefox?'. Sep 25 01:38:56 Hmph, guess he wasn't kidding when he said 'weekends only' Sep 25 01:39:11 I cant seem to get usbnet working on windows 7, can someone point me in the right direction? Sep 25 01:41:04 Windows 7 RC1? Sep 25 01:41:38 yeah.. Sep 25 01:43:00 no idea Sep 25 01:43:07 I can't get it working on mine either Sep 25 01:43:12 And I'm rocking the RTM Sep 25 01:43:40 anybody else using precomd and having issues on Linux? Sep 25 01:44:04 it connects to my pre, but I have to hold down each key for several seconds before it registers a keypress in the prompt Sep 25 01:44:31 dangit I really wanted to work on my pre from my quad :( Sep 25 01:44:59 oil ping Sep 25 01:46:33 nope still no sound Sep 25 01:46:34 wtf Sep 25 01:46:37 this is really pissing me off Sep 25 01:47:40 wow submitting to apple's app store is a pain in the ass Sep 25 01:50:19 bpadalino|work, bpadalino ? Sep 25 01:52:57 ubsnet in linux works... er, just works. Sep 25 01:53:50 Joesmith, silly question, why do you need to use usbnet? novaterm not an option? Sep 25 01:54:45 well I dont need to but I prefer to use it Sep 25 01:55:25 zsoc: THANK YOU Sep 25 02:01:11 Decimation, er.. im sorry, what? Sep 25 02:01:27 Joesmith, is your issue getting the drivers to install/work, or is it a networking problem? Sep 25 02:01:27 zsoc: got my airave today :) Sep 25 02:01:37 followed your instructions on what to say TO THE T Sep 25 02:02:20 and yeah, thats how i finally got my disney channel forums account to activate Sep 25 02:02:46 I don't know much about much, but I am a HUGE disney fan. Sep 25 02:03:00 what were you saying about an airave? xD Sep 25 02:04:56 yeah, got off topic with the airave thing, but never mind that, more disney channel. Sep 25 02:06:29 Decimation, so do you like/still like your pre? Sep 25 02:06:56 Just curious about how webOS is wearing on everyone.. Sep 25 02:06:56 szoc I cant even get windows to try to install the drivers Sep 25 02:07:03 * zsoc is a fanboy Sep 25 02:07:09 zsoc: yes, very much - but my screen on/off button is broken.. once that fixed, i'll be good Sep 25 02:07:28 Joesmith, ah, sorry, that part is out of my expertise :) Sep 25 02:07:44 Decimation, yeah :/ the hardware needs work it seems. Sep 25 02:08:18 ty anyway Sep 25 02:08:22 how do you turn your screen on then? Sep 25 02:08:26 slider? Sep 25 02:08:50 By broken, he might mean "needs to press it a lot or very hard" Sep 25 02:11:23 egaudet: yes Sep 25 02:11:29 zsoc: was the case, now it just doesnt work. Sep 25 02:11:33 waiting on my replacement. Sep 25 02:16:42 rwhitby, ping? Sep 25 02:18:45 10 days dBsooner Sep 25 02:18:52 for? Sep 25 02:18:57 the pong? Sep 25 02:18:58 :D Sep 25 02:19:01 yep Sep 25 02:19:10 Yeah, aparently. Sep 25 02:19:11 where's he at? Sep 25 02:19:24 but yea rwhitby I believe is away for 10 days Sep 25 02:19:27 ~seen rwhitby Sep 25 02:19:31 rwhitby is currently on #webos-internals (16h 51m 11s) #nslu2-linux (16h 51m 11s), last said: 'well, not really awesome - toothbrushes have been doing it for years'. Sep 25 02:19:42 lol Sep 25 02:19:57 Anyone else have admin rights? Sep 25 02:20:04 I mean, who else has admin rights? Sep 25 02:20:29 I should clarify, on the wiki. Sep 25 02:20:49 oil? Sep 25 02:27:21 hey, if i install homebrew apps, do all of them need to be removed before I update to 1.2 whenever it comes out, or is that just for things that make code changes like patches? Sep 25 02:27:58 regular homebew is just apps no different than appstore apps Sep 25 02:28:11 unless you have used preware or somthing to install MORE than the "app limit" Sep 25 02:28:28 dBsooner: what do you need on thw wiki? Sep 25 02:28:33 there are several sysops here Sep 25 02:28:44 I would like my nick changed. :D Sep 25 02:28:54 ahhhh Sep 25 02:28:57 from / to? Sep 25 02:28:59 So you all can't make fun of me anymore Sep 25 02:29:07 DeCiBeL to dBsooner Sep 25 02:29:12 ahhh Sep 25 02:29:16 that makes sense then Sep 25 02:29:30 sooner, as in Oklahoma Sooners? Sep 25 02:29:45 YoU AlL MadE FuN oF MeE ofOr my CapItaLizaTioN Sep 25 02:30:02 plus I wanted osmething that would be more available throughout the inerwebs Sep 25 02:30:12 PreMan: yes, as in the Oklahoma Sooners Sep 25 02:30:21 sweet! Sep 25 02:30:37 dB = DeCiBeL abbreviated Sep 25 02:30:42 it's also my initials Sep 25 02:31:03 clee, hi ? Sep 25 02:31:04 Dieter changed my nick on Smartphone Experts Sep 25 02:31:40 I prefer dBsooner, for what it's worth Sep 25 02:31:52 As do I. Thank you zsoc. Sep 25 02:32:18 I was thinking of using my wife and 2 girls' initials.. Sep 25 02:32:33 like dBjpad Sep 25 02:32:33 bpadalino: so I'm running novacom here, from the precomd repo Sep 25 02:32:40 interesting! Sep 25 02:32:43 why is that ? Sep 25 02:32:45 Ouch, yeah, capitalization is especially inconsistent with wife an 2 girls Sep 25 02:32:55 bpadalino: and it takes three or four seconds of holding down a key before the key shows up in the terminal Sep 25 02:32:57 i think there is a linux sdk which includes novaterm Sep 25 02:32:57 LOL.. yeah, come to my world. Sep 25 02:33:04 clee, which linux distro ? Sep 25 02:33:09 Fedora 11, amd64 Sep 25 02:33:19 interesting indeed Sep 25 02:33:24 * zsoc is unfamiliar with 64 bit architecture Sep 25 02:33:30 Man.. Fedora 11? I remember when Fedora came into existence. Sep 25 02:33:36 I remember it all being red hat. Sep 25 02:33:39 dBsooner: so do I! my first distro was RH5.2 Sep 25 02:33:39 i honestly only tried in a VM of debian .. and the other guy was running ubuntu :( Sep 25 02:33:50 bpadalino: it works great on OS X :/ Sep 25 02:33:57 clee, oh yes - i tried on that too Sep 25 02:33:58 :) Sep 25 02:34:00 Fedora is way behind their originally stated release cycle :P Sep 25 02:34:31 It's really been slacking. Sep 25 02:34:42 Ubuntu became mainstream very quickly. Sep 25 02:34:44 maybe the keyboard scanning timeout value for fedora is reading seconds instead of milliseconds ? Sep 25 02:34:46 MaKiNg A NaMe LiKe ThIs IsNt CoOl Sep 25 02:34:57 See.. I knew it was coming. Sep 25 02:35:16 bpadalino: interesting idea. Sep 25 02:35:24 bpadalino: where is that? Sep 25 02:35:42 link me to the precomd source again ? Sep 25 02:35:56 did that even get moved over to webos-internals git repo ? Sep 25 02:36:02 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/precomd Sep 25 02:36:04 I don't think so Sep 25 02:36:08 I don't see it there, at any rate Sep 25 02:36:23 and I'm using precomd because Palm's packages don't seem to work properly for me on this installation Sep 25 02:36:28 (they expect you to have Ubuntu...) Sep 25 02:36:56 * zsoc remembers Mandrake 9 released with Gnome 1.2 Sep 25 02:37:03 * zsoc isn't sure why he remembers that Sep 25 02:37:31 ahh Sep 25 02:37:33 interesting Sep 25 02:37:56 line 364 of the source is where the keyboard is read Sep 25 02:39:05 * zsoc is sad about 1.2 Sep 25 02:39:15 slackware 3.5 with the 2.0.36 kernel with afterstep Sep 25 02:39:18 now thats sad Sep 25 02:39:47 even sadder that slackware still exists over a decade later haha Sep 25 02:41:14 destinal: so it might be the same chip as Pre? Sep 25 02:41:20 dBsooner, I have to install the renameuser extension into mediawiki Sep 25 02:41:22 Man iTouch OS 3.1.1 sucks battery Sep 25 02:41:25 er, webos 1.2, not gnome Sep 25 02:41:27 which I will do Sep 25 02:41:38 Do you want me to just delete DeCiBeL? Sep 25 02:41:41 and create new? Sep 25 02:43:30 bpadalino: hm, it's definitely reading it fairly frequently Sep 25 02:43:33 multiple times per second Sep 25 02:43:42 weird that it takes so long to come back up then Sep 25 02:43:46 (I inserted an fprintf right before the return p-buf) Sep 25 02:44:26 rwhitby get his phone? Sep 25 02:44:30 Anyone know? Sep 25 02:44:53 clee, very very interesting Sep 25 02:45:06 clee, i wish i knew what to tell you :( Sep 25 02:45:56 me too :/ Sep 25 02:46:18 maybe it's on the reading side that things are going slow ? Sep 25 02:46:46 I dunno. I'll take a look tomorrow Sep 25 02:46:49 heading home now Sep 25 02:46:54 ok Sep 25 02:46:59 let me know if you find something tomorrow Sep 25 02:47:03 sory for shitty software :( Sep 25 02:47:30 haha, no worries Sep 25 02:47:33 I'll definitely keep you posted Sep 25 02:47:53 thanks Sep 25 02:53:20 anyone here can tell me where to get the "org.webosinternals.diffstat" package ? Sep 25 02:53:34 ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for org.webosinternals.virtual-keyboard: Sep 25 02:53:34 org.webosinternals.diffstat Sep 25 02:53:56 tmzt: possibly Sep 25 02:54:25 I mean 6800 not omap3 of course Sep 25 02:54:46 clee: it's not hard to get palm's novacomd working on any modern linux distro Sep 25 02:55:23 * zsoc recalls typing "make && make install" to get it to work Sep 25 02:55:24 xD Sep 25 02:56:18 zsoc: you have palm's source code? Sep 25 02:56:27 not talking about bpadalino's version here Sep 25 02:56:40 * zsoc ponders Sep 25 02:56:45 yeah my stuff sucks :( Sep 25 02:57:05 rick_home: does that "which I will do" mean tonight, or when you get around to it? Sep 25 02:57:11 Ok, all i know is i had a folder called precomd, that i had to build, to get novacom to work Sep 25 02:57:21 bpadalino: you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. back before we HAD palm's novacomd for linux I used yours and it worked just compiling and running it Sep 25 02:57:30 true Sep 25 02:57:39 So yeah, I guess I have palm's source code? Didn't they release it? Sep 25 02:57:39 dBsooner: that means, I have it uploaded, and am trying to figure it out Sep 25 02:57:46 ohhh Sep 25 02:57:57 media wiki is complex. and obscure and just a little bizzare sometimes Sep 25 02:58:01 then it could have read, "which I am doing" Sep 25 02:58:23 zsoc: no you have the oss novacom workalike thing that bpadalino did Sep 25 02:58:40 err novaterm workalike, I should say? Sep 25 02:58:43 * dBsooner throws his iTouch across the room because it's battery died already! Sep 25 02:58:59 destinal: it does file put and get as well i thin Sep 25 02:59:00 k Sep 25 02:59:06 still no video recording on my pre Sep 25 02:59:07 :( Sep 25 02:59:17 lol Sep 25 02:59:25 http://www.cheatzcity.com/PreVid2.avi Sep 25 02:59:29 still no 1.2.1 on my pre either Sep 25 02:59:30 theres a sample video - recorded on a pre Sep 25 02:59:40 BUT NO GUI FOR DAT SHIZNIT Sep 25 02:59:55 Not found **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Sep 25 02:59:58 2009