.patch Oct 06 14:53:09 <egaudet> all lower case Oct 06 14:53:11 <dBsooner-work> pull it, create a new repo on gitorious, push it Oct 06 14:53:35 <dBsooner-work> then make all changes to build.git on gitorious just to get it ready.. Oct 06 14:53:37 <egaudet> I'll clone the repo on gitorious itself, then we can both pull/push to that Oct 06 14:53:46 <dBsooner-work> egaudet: yes.. and NO usernames in title Oct 06 14:53:56 <dBsooner-work> egaudet: no the build.git as well Oct 06 14:54:05 <dBsooner-work> egaudet: so we can make the change in the Makefile too Oct 06 14:54:08 <egaudet> are there usernames in title? Oct 06 14:54:13 <dBsooner-work> on two of them Oct 06 14:54:19 <dBsooner-work> well in the filename Oct 06 14:54:23 <dBsooner-work> but not in the "Title" Oct 06 14:54:31 <dBsooner-work> jason's 4x4 Oct 06 14:54:33 <dBsooner-work> (which needs deleted) Oct 06 14:54:34 <egaudet> o Oct 06 14:54:50 <dBsooner-work> and the new 5x4 I pushed last night Oct 06 14:54:54 <dBsooner-work> which needs to overwrite the old Oct 06 14:55:02 <egaudet> it appears jason is using 4x4 v1 as well Oct 06 14:55:07 <egaudet> on QI tweaks Oct 06 14:55:10 <dBsooner-work> sigh Oct 06 14:55:11 <Ron0001> Morning all...Is it possible that Preware is stopping me from updating Classic from the App catalog? People are speculating this in the Precentral forums. I know I have room, and I'm getting an insufficient space error. Oct 06 14:55:14 <dBsooner-work> it doesn't word wrap Oct 06 14:55:18 <dBsooner-work> and spacing is off Oct 06 14:55:27 <dBsooner-work> 4x4 ver 2 is much better Oct 06 14:55:30 <dBsooner-work> same with 5x4 ver 2 Oct 06 14:55:34 <egaudet> Ron0001, it's not preware it's an arbitrary limit by the luna binary that does space check Oct 06 14:55:38 <egaudet> there are workarounds for now Oct 06 14:55:51 <egaudet> dBsooner-work, you got that backwards I think Oct 06 14:55:54 <egaudet> v1 word wraps Oct 06 14:55:57 <Ron0001> egaudet, even though I have deleted enough apps to free space? Oct 06 14:56:09 <dBsooner-work> aye 4x4 ver 1 is better Oct 06 14:56:14 <nt4cats> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Solution_to_App_Catalog_Installation_Limit Oct 06 14:56:15 <dBsooner-work> 5x4 ver 2 Oct 06 14:56:22 <Ron0001> thanks! Oct 06 14:56:28 <egaudet> why is there a ver 2 5x4? Oct 06 14:57:13 <dBsooner-work> because its much better Oct 06 14:57:17 <egaudet> well it doesn't matter, we can have as many versions as we want. Just make sure screenshots show everything from long name apps to spacing Oct 06 14:57:21 <dBsooner-work> spacing is better and it word wraps Oct 06 14:57:43 <dBsooner-work> ok. But we still need to rename them. Oct 06 14:57:47 <egaudet> yup Oct 06 14:57:58 <dBsooner-work> <category>-<title> Oct 06 14:58:03 <dBsooner-work> lowercase, no username Oct 06 14:58:09 <egaudet> and - not _ Oct 06 14:58:09 <dBsooner-work> no _ Oct 06 14:58:16 <egaudet> - for each space Oct 06 14:58:20 <dBsooner-work> aye Oct 06 14:58:33 <egaudet> my-category-this-is-title.patch Oct 06 14:58:56 <egaudet> I will contact Jason today Oct 06 14:59:09 <dBsooner-work> example: app-launcher-more-icons-per-row-5x4-ver-2.patch Oct 06 14:59:53 <dBsooner-work> cool... let's clone gitorious and make a new repo on gitorious for just the "autopatch" part of build.git Oct 06 15:00:13 <wh0dat> is there a screenshot of what 5x4 looks like, that sounds pretty small.. ;-) Oct 06 15:00:25 <atlanta> wh0dat: it is Oct 06 15:00:25 <atlanta> lol Oct 06 15:00:35 <egaudet> dBsooner-work, we can get rid of more-icons-per-row Oct 06 15:00:50 <wh0dat> although, my friends mytouch is 5 across and looks fine Oct 06 15:00:59 <egaudet> app-launcher-5x4, app-launcher-5x4-v2 Oct 06 15:01:06 <PuffTheMagic> 4x4 ftw Oct 06 15:01:16 <PuffTheMagic> unless u hold your phone 2" from your face Oct 06 15:01:21 <atlanta> wh0dat: more space on the screen though i believe Oct 06 15:01:23 <atlanta> maybe im wrong Oct 06 15:01:24 <PuffTheMagic> cause <=10px font is rough Oct 06 15:01:28 <atlanta> i was just looking at a mytouch just now Oct 06 15:01:43 <wh0dat> 5 across, right? Oct 06 15:02:11 <atlanta> wh0dat: ill take another look int a few Oct 06 15:03:54 <wh0dat> actually i think he had a patch on it to do 5 across Oct 06 15:06:39 <egaudet> dBsooner-work, all patches to version 0.5.0 during cleanup Oct 06 15:06:45 <dBsooner-work> k Oct 06 15:06:53 <egaudet> and I will add vkb to it Oct 06 15:07:03 <dBsooner-work> awesome Oct 06 15:07:11 <egaudet> and announcement will say to remove any pre-0.5.0 patches Oct 06 15:08:00 <dBsooner-work> do you want me to create the autopatch repo on gitorious and copy in the autopatch tree from build.git on webos-internals? Oct 06 15:08:13 <wh0dat> i dont understand this whole submitting an app to palm and getting a url back from them thing Oct 06 15:08:33 <AnOutsider> without more ifnormation released, I dont blame you Oct 06 15:08:35 <en0x> hmm Oct 06 15:08:37 <AnOutsider> all speculation at this point Oct 06 15:08:44 <en0x> ha! i got webos meta to work Oct 06 15:08:44 <en0x> ;D Oct 06 15:10:41 <en0x> ok custom image completed Oct 06 15:10:58 <en0x> should i reflash or no Oct 06 15:10:59 <en0x> hmm Oct 06 15:11:20 <Ron0001> egaudat, nt4cats; done and thanks twas easy! Oct 06 15:13:12 <dBsooner-work> Ron0001: post that link to the wiki in the pc.net thread trhat was talking about Preware being the problem. Because it's not. **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 06 15:14:14 2009 Oct 06 15:14:34 <dBsooner-work> egaudet: sounds like we have a plan. Just have to clone the modifications repo giving each of us push access.. then somehow clone the build.git/autopatch repo on webos-internals repo (create it on gitorious, temporarily?) giving both of us push. Oct 06 15:15:28 <Ron0001> will do, thanks Oct 06 15:19:41 <egaudet> dBsooner-work, we probably won't need to clone the autopatch Oct 06 15:19:55 <egaudet> do all the work in modifications, and then one pass through build.git will suffice Oct 06 15:20:31 <egaudet> AutoPatch is used by default in both QI and Preload now Oct 06 15:21:06 <en0x> gmm webos doctor still don see my pre even if i powered it down and used up volume button and power it on Oct 06 15:21:50 <en0x> http://wklej.org/id/167155/ Oct 06 15:24:11 <en0x> any idea? Oct 06 15:24:50 <Ron0001> did u take the battery out first? Mine did the same thing until I removed the battery and tried again. Oct 06 15:27:00 <en0x> ok Oct 06 15:36:23 <en0x> nah didnt work Oct 06 15:39:26 <wh0dat> does virtual beyboard work with 1.2? Oct 06 15:39:56 <egaudet> yes Oct 06 15:43:03 <en0x> maybe i should run webos doctor as root on linux Oct 06 15:43:04 <en0x> hmm Oct 06 15:45:40 <Rick_away> ~seen tharris- Oct 06 15:45:44 <infobot> tharris- <n=none@pool-96-243-152-106.tampfl.fios.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 12h 37m 59s ago, saying: 'lava lamp deal was funny'. Oct 06 15:53:53 <Rick_away> en0x are you stil having problems with webos doctor? Oct 06 15:54:57 <en0x> ya Oct 06 15:56:34 <en0x> oh java is spitting that it cannot connect to novacomd Oct 06 15:56:35 <en0x> hmm Oct 06 15:58:57 <en0x> from verbose log after i ran webos doctor Oct 06 15:58:58 <en0x> hmm Oct 06 16:00:23 <nt4cats> en0x: I have always run webos doctor as a non-root user Oct 06 16:00:39 <nt4cats> en0x: ignore my last statement Oct 06 16:01:10 <nt4cats> en0x: I'm getting webos doctor and webosQuickInstall confused Oct 06 16:01:27 <nt4cats> en0x: ... typing before thinking. I've not had to run webosDoctor (yet) Oct 06 16:02:09 <en0x> hmm Oct 06 16:02:17 <en0x> i will do it on my mac later Oct 06 16:25:23 <dBsooner-work> egaudet: just adds more work to ourselves. ;) Oct 06 16:26:16 <en0x> ok Oct 06 16:26:23 <en0x> i got the doctor working on my mac Oct 06 16:26:24 <en0x> :) Oct 06 16:26:35 <en0x> who cpied old palmdatabase.db3 to new pre? Oct 06 16:26:56 <dBsooner-work> egaudet: I liked the idea of "change the title/patch-name/etc in gitorious, go ahead and change the name in the Makefile as well just to be sure its covered." Oct 06 16:36:29 <dBsooner-work> egaudet: can we enable haptic feedback in the VKB? Oct 06 16:38:54 <dBsooner-work> so when you commit a "tag" only to git, does it just mark any adds/deletes changes since last tag? Oct 06 16:41:15 <dBsooner-work> or ANY changes since last tag? Oct 06 16:41:37 <dBsooner-work> i guess a 'tag' is more of a snapshot of the repo at that moment? Oct 06 16:41:59 <chrisa> hm, is robert werlinger in here? Oct 06 16:42:03 <egaudet> haptic has been an option in the vkb for a while Oct 06 16:42:50 <egaudet> a tag is just a tag Oct 06 16:42:51 <dBsooner-work> aye, just keep forgetting to Oct 06 16:42:51 <dBsooner-work> right, but like last night.,. Oct 06 16:42:51 <egaudet> if you have a filing cabinet of 100 folders, and you put a tag on one of them Oct 06 16:42:59 <dBsooner-work> I had to tag the modifications repo with 0.4.5 then make that 5x4 Makefile version 0.4.5 for it to build it Oct 06 16:43:07 <egaudet> it doesn't do anything to the cabinet or the folders, just lets you easily identify it Oct 06 16:44:01 <chrisa> It's annoying that a *very* old pixi prototype is making the photo rounds when it's essentially crap compared to the production unit Oct 06 16:44:05 <egaudet> yea the build will clone the repo and checkout the version tag Oct 06 16:44:12 <jettero> I'm underwhelmed by photobucket... have people hacked in picassa and flickr support? Oct 06 16:44:27 <dBsooner-work> so if a patch is ADDED, I have to update the tag? Oct 06 16:44:54 <dBsooner-work> and the new Makefile in build.git HAS To be = to the version # used in the tag or Greater.? Oct 06 16:46:06 <dBsooner-work> or would any tag grab the entire repo as it stands that exact second? Oct 06 16:46:31 <egaudet> the tag has to be at a commit that has what you want Oct 06 16:46:49 <egaudet> if you push a new patch in today at commit xxxxxxx111 and tag it v0.5.0 Oct 06 16:47:26 <egaudet> clone the repo and checkout v0.4.5 tag then you dont have anything after the commit that is tagged with v0.4.5 Oct 06 16:47:36 <dBsooner-work> Example: I create a new patch and dir on gitorious. I commit and push it. I then create the Makefile in build.git, I can't use VERSION = 0.4.0 because when tat tag was made, the new patch/dir I just made wasn't there. Oct 06 16:48:42 <dBsooner-work> I would have to add a tag to gitorious > than the last tag added (say v0.4.6) and make the VERSION in the new Makefile 0.4.6? Oct 06 16:52:25 <egaudet> right Oct 06 16:55:15 <dBsooner-work> egaudet: cool. Makes sense. Oct 06 17:07:10 <en0x> ok got my pre running on a custom image Oct 06 17:07:11 <en0x> ;) Oct 06 17:07:25 <en0x> now the question is how i can login to palm profile :P Oct 06 17:07:29 <Mousey> en0x: debian? Oct 06 17:07:40 <en0x> no i resized /var to 2gb Oct 06 17:07:48 <Mousey> oh! heh Oct 06 17:07:56 * Mousey thinks . o O ( one day!! ) Oct 06 17:07:58 <en0x> i used rwhitby scripts from webos-meta git Oct 06 17:08:11 <Mousey> did you resize LVM, or something else? Oct 06 17:08:23 <Mousey> s/e L/e with L/ Oct 06 17:08:23 <infobot> Mousey meant: did you resize with LVM, or something else? Oct 06 17:08:47 <en0x> http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/webos-internals/meta-doctor.html Oct 06 17:08:53 * Mousey clicks Oct 06 17:08:54 <en0x> this is what i did Oct 06 17:12:01 <Mousey> haha, meta-doctor.. should be called WebOSNurse Oct 06 17:12:03 <Mousey> ^_^ Oct 06 17:14:42 <en0x> hehehe Oct 06 17:15:42 <Mousey> and QI should be WebOSDopeDealer Oct 06 17:15:51 <Mousey> hmm, WebOSPharmacist Oct 06 17:15:52 <Mousey> yes! Oct 06 17:15:56 <Mousey> i like the medical theme here Oct 06 17:16:01 * Mousey looks for a HOUSE theme Oct 06 17:16:16 <en0x> ok restored my palm profile Oct 06 17:16:26 <en0x> now time to install ssh and stuff Oct 06 17:16:37 <en0x> and later on put my messages back Oct 06 17:18:46 <Mousey> are you trying to solve for >60 apps? Oct 06 17:22:16 <en0x> nope Oct 06 17:22:25 <en0x> there is issue with lunaservice not space Oct 06 17:27:20 <Mousey> oh good, so the issue is being closer to understoodness Oct 06 17:27:27 <Mousey> and it's not space related.. that's interesting Oct 06 17:27:46 <Mousey> i wonder if someone knows a thread where they go over it, i'd like a better understanding of it. Oct 06 17:28:34 <en0x> even if you have 150mb free in /var and hav installed over 50ipks you wont be able to install anything more through app catalog Oct 06 17:28:34 <en0x> because u have reached the app limit count Oct 06 17:28:42 <en0x> its a static variable and should be easy to fix for palm Oct 06 17:32:55 <Mousey> ...but? Oct 06 17:33:01 <en0x> what but/ Oct 06 17:33:02 <en0x> root@castle:/var/home/root# cat com_palm_pim_FolderEntry.sql |sqlite3 /var/luna/data/dbdata/PalmDatabase.db3 Oct 06 17:33:05 <en0x> SQL error near line 167: database is locked Oct 06 17:33:08 <en0x> lol Oct 06 17:33:11 <en0x> ;] Oct 06 17:33:39 <FreeTim> rhitby are you around? Added a GPS page for you, if that helps. Identified the chips Oct 06 17:33:58 <FreeTim> rwhitby hopefully this helps somehow as you're looking into the S. Hemisphere thing Oct 06 17:40:27 <FreeTim> and sorry if this research is any duplication, but I noticed there wasn't a GPS chip hardware page, possibly because it's integrated into the voice receiver chip itself Oct 06 17:42:06 <geist> it's part of the modem Oct 06 17:43:58 <FreeTim> modem? it's part of the radio receiver... Oct 06 17:44:26 * Mousey arbitrarily restarts luna Oct 06 17:45:04 <Mousey> DSP multitasking Oct 06 17:45:07 <Mousey> awwww yeaaaa Oct 06 17:45:16 <nt4cats> FreeTim: Radio receiver? It's part of the flux capacitor... Oct 06 17:45:38 * Mousey thinks it makes sense Oct 06 17:46:26 <en0x> hmm inserting tables in PalmDatabase.db3 did not work Oct 06 17:46:32 <en0x> the database was locked Oct 06 17:46:33 <Mousey> GPS signals are just modulations, time signals being sent from sattelites.. all it's doing is probably mathing them, like it maths other mux'd signals Oct 06 17:47:09 <Mousey> WHAT HAS sCIENCE DONE!? Oct 06 17:47:38 * nt4cats seriously considers getting a T-shirt with "GPS signals are just modulations" printed on it Oct 06 17:47:46 <Mousey> ^_^ Oct 06 17:47:52 <en0x> and copying PalmDatabase.db3 did not help it said that i need to restore Oct 06 17:47:56 <en0x> eh Oct 06 17:47:59 * Mousey : Master oversimplificaterator Oct 06 17:48:34 <en0x> how the heck it knows that the db3 file differs Oct 06 17:48:35 <en0x> hmm Oct 06 17:48:58 <Mousey> md5? Oct 06 17:49:02 <en0x> maybe there is something in PalmAccountDatabase that keeps a track Oct 06 17:49:05 <Mousey> index? Oct 06 17:49:06 <en0x> yeah right Oct 06 17:49:13 <en0x> u gonna do md5 every 10 sekond? :> Oct 06 17:49:17 <en0x> seconds* Oct 06 17:49:22 <Mousey> with the modem chip Oct 06 17:49:25 <Mousey> ^_^ Oct 06 17:49:50 <Mousey> transaction log? Oct 06 17:50:06 <en0x> idk Oct 06 17:50:12 <en0x> anyway I lost all of my messages Oct 06 17:50:13 <en0x> :P Oct 06 17:50:18 <Mousey> =( Oct 06 17:50:32 <en0x> i mean i have them in palmdatabase but i cant even isert crap in the one on pre Oct 06 17:51:11 <en0x> i did sql dumps Oct 06 17:51:25 <en0x> and stuff and when i try to insert those dumps to database on pre it wont accept it Oct 06 17:51:28 <en0x> database is locked Oct 06 17:51:28 <en0x> ;] Oct 06 17:52:25 <en0x> so now i know why nobody was figglin with it Oct 06 17:52:26 <en0x> ;D Oct 06 18:10:25 <drnull1> en0x: if you stop LunaSysMgr does that release the lock? Maybe there are some other processes that you could stop to get access? Oct 06 18:10:38 <jauderho> WTF? Oct 06 18:10:52 <jauderho> palm reader is going to be paid? Oct 06 18:11:15 <jauderho> palm is the only platform we have to pay for.. the old version was free.. Oct 06 18:11:15 <HattCzech_> anyone know what css items will make a list smaller? i've tried padding and margin, and margin seems to somewhat work, but break things Oct 06 18:11:54 <jauderho> nevermind it's not the ereader Oct 06 18:15:01 <en0x> drnull1: i havent tried that Oct 06 18:15:42 <sgarrity> is it possible to access the App Catalog from the virtual machine provided with the SDK? Oct 06 18:17:00 <FreeTim> anyone know how much shorter battery life is when GPS is on? I mean is there any quantitative data? Oct 06 18:17:04 <drnull1> en0x: if you haven't done it before, "stop LunaSysMgr", then the phone will appear to freeze, but you can continue working in the shell. "start LunaSysMgr" will get things running again (i.e., reboot the GUI. ) Oct 06 18:17:12 <FreeTim> I guess I could run Battery Meter for two days and do some comparison tests Oct 06 18:19:02 <FreeTim> I will do that from a full charge, with GPS on and then off, and shall post the results on the GPS page in a few days Oct 06 18:35:47 <jettero> gah, finally got rid of that actually-missing image from my photo library Oct 06 18:35:55 <jettero> I'm going to post the trick to the wiki, where do you suggest? Oct 06 18:36:53 <en0x> drnull1: even if i just copy PalmDatabase.db3 over the one on my pre and reboot the phone.. webos will detect that the database is somehow corrupted Oct 06 18:37:16 <sgarrity> is it possible to access the App Catalog from the virtual machine provided with the SDK? Oct 06 18:37:44 <bpadalino|work> catalog is available on the devices only i believe Oct 06 18:38:07 <sgarrity> and there's no public web list of apps available, is there? Oct 06 18:38:48 <bpadalino|work> don't think so Oct 06 18:39:07 <sgarrity> You'd think they'd want to show that off to me BEFORE I buy a Pre. Oct 06 18:39:11 <sgarrity> (thanks though) Oct 06 18:40:01 <bougyman> hey how much will 1.2.1 mess up? Oct 06 18:40:08 <Rick_away> ~seen oil Oct 06 18:40:14 <bougyman> i saw it didn't have room to fit in /update, had to take some of /opt Oct 06 18:40:15 <infobot> oil is currently on #webos-internals (9h 26m 31s), last said: '99 cent apps vs 5 dollar apps'. Oct 06 18:43:32 <wh0dat> what is this preload for? dont need it if using preware? Oct 06 18:55:10 <bougyman> anything good in this update? Oct 06 18:55:53 <PuffTheMagic> wh0dat: if u have never used it, and nothing is telling you to use it, then you dont need it Oct 06 18:56:51 <csplinter> Anyone know where I can find sources newer than here http://opensource.palm.com/packages.html They don't have anything from 1.2 or 1.2.1 Oct 06 18:57:10 <PuffTheMagic> thats where they would be Oct 06 19:03:41 <HattCzech> does devmode need to be on to install patches through preware? Oct 06 19:03:49 <HattCzech> someone in #webos is asking Oct 06 19:04:54 <egaudet> devmode is only needed for novacom i believe Oct 06 19:06:53 <nt4cats> You only need devmode if you're using novaterm the SDK, or something like WebOsQuickInstall Oct 06 19:07:35 <gkatsev> yeah, thats what i thought. devmode for WQI and sdk but uneeded for preware Oct 06 19:08:02 <nt4cats> devmode turns off your firewall, so I wouldn't recommend leaving devmode on unless you need it for your immediate task Oct 06 19:08:34 <gkatsev> i should turn it off... but i dont want to restart my phone... Oct 06 19:09:00 <nt4cats> gkat: why don't you want to restart your phone? Oct 06 19:09:19 <gkatsev> nt4cats: im in the middle of a game... Oct 06 19:09:19 <egaudet> firewall off Oct 06 19:09:20 <gkatsev> <.< Oct 06 19:09:21 <gkatsev> >.> Oct 06 19:09:23 <egaudet> who what Oct 06 19:09:39 <nt4cats> gkat: having the firewall off isn't fatal, finish your game and reboot later Oct 06 19:10:18 <gkatsev> yeah, but it doesnt let you turn it off to take effect at next restart Oct 06 19:10:27 <gkatsev> hopefully i wont forget Oct 06 19:10:36 <gkatsev> ill remember at some point Oct 06 19:11:01 <nt4cats> if only you had some sort of device with notes or a calandar with alarms/reminders .... Oct 06 19:11:09 <gkatsev> lol Oct 06 19:12:13 <linux4badgers> nt4cats: if only ... Oct 06 19:13:03 * nt4cats suggests an 'appointment' on your calendar for 10a tomorrow morning to 'reboot to turn of Dev mode' Oct 06 19:13:10 <nt4cats> err off Oct 06 19:13:35 <gkatsev> an "appointment" with my phone? Oct 06 19:14:22 <egaudet> is there a patch to not auto-call when tapping your missed calls notifications, i want to see who called not call the top one Oct 06 19:14:45 <Mousey> badgersbadgersbadgersbadgerts Oct 06 19:14:50 <Mousey> -t Oct 06 19:15:14 <gkatsev> Mousey: you shouldve done s/t// Oct 06 19:15:28 <Mousey> yes, but then i would have had to say Oct 06 19:15:32 <Mousey> MUSHROOM MUSHROOM! Oct 06 19:15:39 <gkatsev> lol Oct 06 19:15:51 <dug> snaaaaake! Oct 06 19:16:49 <gkatsev> llama llama duck? Oct 06 19:19:04 <jettero> I wrote a quick howto on resetting the file indexer when it's making errors... a situation I doubt I'll see again Oct 06 19:19:08 <jettero> but is really easy to fix Oct 06 19:19:52 <SimpsonTP> hi all Oct 06 19:20:11 <SimpsonTP> any1 awake ? Oct 06 19:20:11 <all> ni Oct 06 19:20:21 <all> s/ni/hi SimpsonTP / Oct 06 19:20:22 <infobot> all meant: hi SimpsonTP Oct 06 19:20:32 <SimpsonTP> :) Oct 06 19:20:37 <nt4cats> Simpson: nope, no one is here Oct 06 19:20:51 <SimpsonTP> I have a question about webos but i'm not sure if i'm right here Oct 06 19:20:53 <SimpsonTP> so bare with me Oct 06 19:20:54 <lnx4mice> hmm Oct 06 19:20:55 <nt4cats> s/no one/Mousey/ Oct 06 19:20:55 <infobot> nt4cats meant: Simpson: nope, Mousey is here Oct 06 19:21:09 <lnx4mice> s/hmm/no he's not/ Oct 06 19:21:09 <infobot> lnx4mice meant: no he's not Oct 06 19:21:23 <lnx4mice> ~lart nt4cats Oct 06 19:21:24 * infobot whips nt4cats with a wet and grimy noodle just because Oct 06 19:21:28 <lnx4mice> go mice! Oct 06 19:21:44 <SimpsonTP> in the contacts application you can add services, but its limited to 4 only Oct 06 19:22:10 <SimpsonTP> is there somewhere a description on how to add such a service or account yourself ( or even develop a connector for it ) Oct 06 19:22:25 <SimpsonTP> ( and if this is the wrong place, where should I go ) Oct 06 19:23:39 <Mousey> i'm not sure if it's the wrong place, but if you get a lot of idk's in here, you might try #webos Oct 06 19:23:40 <gkatsev> SimpsonTP: i think the wiki might have a page about that, though, not sure Oct 06 19:23:45 <Mousey> count me in for one idk Oct 06 19:24:29 <tgies> has anyone figured out what com.palm.mediaevents is for Oct 06 19:24:30 <SimpsonTP> at least I'm not flammed Oct 06 19:24:46 <gkatsev> tgies: media events? :D Oct 06 19:25:13 <Mousey> SimpsonTP: when gkatsev speaks, YOU LISTEN Oct 06 19:25:14 <Mousey> ^_^ Oct 06 19:25:59 <nt4cats> tgies: when your Pre needs to speak to the assembled radio or TV press, this module is invoked. Oct 06 19:27:09 <Mousey> thats it, i want my Pre to talk Oct 06 19:27:14 <Mousey> anybody got word on a flite port? Oct 06 19:27:32 <Mousey> could you imagine the AWESOME RINGTONES? Oct 06 19:27:34 <gkatsev> perhaps espeak? Oct 06 19:27:36 <Mousey> PreHero: you're mom's calling Oct 06 19:27:47 <Mousey> s/PreHero/YourPre/ Oct 06 19:27:53 <Mousey> ... Oct 06 19:27:59 <Mousey> espeak, or flite, either would be epic Oct 06 19:28:23 <Mousey> now THAT might actually shut me up and get me writing things for my phone Oct 06 19:28:42 <SimpsonTP> gkatsev, any hint on where in the wiki it might be ? Oct 06 19:29:13 <gkatsev> Mousey: no flite or espeak on optware Oct 06 19:33:10 <gkatsev> Mousey: you can install asterisk via optware, lol Oct 06 19:34:20 <egaudet> wtf i just installed 4x4 ver 2 from preware and it never asks me forconfirmation on postinst Oct 06 19:34:48 <en0x> haha Oct 06 19:36:30 <csplinter> PuffTheMagic: When you said before "that's where they would be" were you responding to me? Oct 06 19:36:55 <PuffTheMagic> no wh0dat Oct 06 19:38:14 <csplinter> ah, thanks anyway Oct 06 19:38:54 <egaudet> no he was responding to you Oct 06 19:39:03 <egaudet> that IS where they would (will) be Oct 06 19:40:47 <nickrep> hello Oct 06 19:41:32 <egaudet> hi Oct 06 19:42:16 <csplinter> Thanks egaudet. Oct 06 19:42:20 <egaudet> dBsooner-work, ping Oct 06 19:42:22 <egaudet> oil ping Oct 06 19:43:18 <oil> aye Oct 06 19:44:34 <nickrep> is there are patch to re-enable getting apps for free Oct 06 19:44:56 <oil> please read the end of the topic Oct 06 19:45:09 <oil> this channel is not for circumventing paying for apps Oct 06 19:45:13 <nickrep> are there are channels that are for that Oct 06 19:45:25 <nickrep> are there* Oct 06 19:46:16 <nt4cats> nickrep: it apparently isn't condoned here ... so I don't think we are going to tell you how to do it (or where to find out) Oct 06 19:46:32 <en0x> there is no patch Oct 06 19:46:33 <nickrep> they don't have to condone it to tell me how to get to places that do Oct 06 19:46:41 <egaudet> oil, so i go to install something (4x4 v2 patch), and it spins and then says "patch installed" Oct 06 19:46:43 <nickrep> when this channel first came around they would redirect people to the so called black hat webos channel Oct 06 19:46:45 <egaudet> no postinst confirmation Oct 06 19:46:56 <en0x> i have 200 ringtones and now I cant pick one Oct 06 19:47:01 <en0x> the weel keeps spinning Oct 06 19:47:01 <en0x> :S Oct 06 19:47:02 <nt4cats> try #black-hat-webos Oct 06 19:47:06 <egaudet> I see it is because the index is out of date (i have my feeds on manual update) so I probably have to run an update Oct 06 19:47:11 <egaudet> but 2 things Oct 06 19:47:38 <egaudet> 1) it lists in installed pacakges after that "failed" installation until i restart preware or presumable update feed Oct 06 19:47:59 <egaudet> 2) it says it installed Oct 06 19:48:03 <egaudet> (swap 1 and 2) Oct 06 19:48:15 <oil> even after it fails to install? Oct 06 19:48:36 <oil> that shouldn't happen Oct 06 19:48:46 <egaudet> yea, the ipkg log is all in green talking about "nothing to be done, blah blah maybe run ipkg update" Oct 06 19:49:06 <oil> huh Oct 06 19:49:07 <egaudet> so preware must think it succeeded, doesn't get error from service i assume? Oct 06 19:49:20 <oil> if it gets an error from the service it would show it Oct 06 19:50:03 <hmagoo> recommendations for a router os? Oct 06 19:50:12 <egaudet> I guess this is more of a service problem than preware but I want to log everything I can now before i update the feed Oct 06 19:50:13 <hmagoo> pc, not embedded Oct 06 19:50:24 <geist> m0n0wall Oct 06 19:50:38 <egaudet> oil you know how you do ipkg -o /var install on cmd line Oct 06 19:50:54 <egaudet> im reading the ipkg log, and after downloading it says "nothing to be done" Oct 06 19:50:55 <oil> egaudet yeah Oct 06 19:51:25 <en0x> u havent updated the feed yet? :P Oct 06 19:51:56 <egaudet> collected errors: com.arijasoft.palmonlineradioPackage org.webosinternals.patches.launcher-icons-4x4-jason md5sum mismatch. Either the ipkg or the package index are corrupt. Try 'ipkg update'. Oct 06 19:52:15 <egaudet> first wtf is that arijasoft? Oct 06 19:52:48 <hmagoo> some streaming radio app Oct 06 19:53:25 <egaudet> that i don't have nor want nor ever tried to get Oct 06 19:53:34 <egaudet> at least I dont think Oct 06 19:54:18 <nt4cats> http://palmpre.arijasoft.com/products/Online-radio/V1.0.1 Oct 06 19:56:48 <nt4cats> egaudet: the "arijasoft" app is also found here: http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/online-radio Oct 06 19:59:31 <oil> i love how there is qi screenshots being posted in the preware thread Oct 06 20:00:03 <hmagoo> you know you bookmarked them :p Oct 06 20:02:53 <hmagoo> why would a screencast on m0n0wall's site use .wmv? :sigh Oct 06 20:10:35 <tgies> so if one subscribes to events on com.palm.mediaevents Oct 06 20:10:43 <tgies> what will one receive Oct 06 20:10:56 <tgies> i saw some program that did that but i couldn't figure out what in hell it was trying to accomplish Oct 06 20:11:14 <tgies> presently i'm wondering if there's a way i can get track change notifications from the music app Oct 06 20:14:52 <egaudet> oil sorry :P Oct 06 20:14:59 <egaudet> AutoPatch will have it's own thread tonight Oct 06 20:15:10 <egaudet> And hopefully pc will create a patches subforum Oct 06 20:16:01 <dBsooner-work> lol Oct 06 20:16:05 <hmagoo> well, there are patch threads in the Palm Pre forum.. :-/ Oct 06 20:16:12 <egaudet> hehe did you see the guy who read the gizmodo article and then started looking for "tools->tweaks" menu inside preware :P Oct 06 20:16:35 <egaudet> hmagoo, yea but you can't do patch development/issues in one thread when the # of patches is approaching 100 Oct 06 20:16:57 <hmagoo> I know, I am just still puzzled why the thread was officially put there Oct 06 20:17:14 <hmagoo> reminds me, are we going to get a squarify the screen patch? Oct 06 20:17:31 <hmagoo> dBsooner-work: the two 4x4 patches have the same screenshots? Oct 06 20:18:13 <egaudet> The foundation is in place Oct 06 20:18:28 <egaudet> we can get any patch we want (except binary patches like iphone... at least no yet) Oct 06 20:18:34 <egaudet> iphone spoof * Oct 06 20:19:42 <dBsooner-work> hmagoo: yes Oct 06 20:19:52 <en0x> is there a way that LunaSysMgr won't restart after pkill? Oct 06 20:20:02 <hmagoo> initctl stop Oct 06 20:20:03 <hmagoo> ? Oct 06 20:20:10 <dBsooner-work> hmagoo: I was too lazy to replace the patch and do a second one Oct 06 20:20:32 <hmagoo> k Oct 06 20:21:53 <egaudet> dBsooner-work is a slacker Oct 06 20:22:10 <dBsooner-work> :D Oct 06 20:22:12 <hmagoo> dBsooner-work: what patch is it that alludes to "device info" screen.. hmm Oct 06 20:22:27 <dBsooner-work> shrug Oct 06 20:22:31 <dBsooner-work> one of them Oct 06 20:22:46 <en0x> hmm Oct 06 20:22:47 <en0x> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 972.0k Oct 6 16:22 PalmDatabase.db3 Oct 06 20:22:50 <en0x> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 8.5k Oct 6 16:22 PalmDatabase.db3-journal Oct 06 20:22:55 <en0x> anytime i try to insert something in databse Oct 06 20:23:04 <en0x> it gets back old one from journal Oct 06 20:23:42 <en0x> but anyway Oct 06 20:23:43 <en0x> /dev/mapper/store-var 2.0G 108.3M 1.9G 5% /var Oct 06 20:23:45 <en0x> :> Oct 06 20:23:47 <tgies> these are sqlite databases right Oct 06 20:23:51 <tgies> are you closing them correctly Oct 06 20:23:51 <hmagoo> dBsooner-work: Phone Radio Power, don't think it should say Device Info, but (whatever you call that home dropdown menu) instead Oct 06 20:23:51 <en0x> yap Oct 06 20:24:32 <en0x> ok got it i guess Oct 06 20:25:30 <Abyssul> Anyone have any idea why people who install my theme with Quick Install cannot revert back to default? It only does a parts of the theme Oct 06 20:26:09 <hmagoo> I don't know, but I did put one theme on top of the other for desired effect and it worked, heh. Oct 06 20:26:44 <egaudet> device menu Oct 06 20:26:47 <egaudet> not device info Oct 06 20:26:54 <hmagoo> sweet Oct 06 20:26:58 <dBsooner-work> yeah, your right Oct 06 20:27:28 <hmagoo> not that people read anyways Oct 06 20:27:29 <dBsooner-work> thank you Oct 06 20:27:39 <hmagoo> I think they are blind and can only feel the mousewheel Oct 06 20:27:41 <dBsooner-work> and yeah, ikts device menu Oct 06 20:27:44 <dBsooner-work> I just mistyped Oct 06 20:31:32 <hmagoo> heh, changed my lcd on time to 30 seconds, and it is like playing a video game to keep it from going off while you're reading. Oct 06 20:32:00 <en0x> ok let see Oct 06 20:32:06 <hmagoo> no, thank you dBsooner-work Oct 06 20:32:07 <en0x> i imported some tables to sqlite db Oct 06 20:32:08 <en0x> finally Oct 06 20:32:09 <en0x> ;] Oct 06 20:32:15 <en0x> will it crash? :> Oct 06 20:32:22 <dBsooner-work> PC is creating a subforumn. Oct 06 20:32:28 <dBsooner-work> I just called ronnie. Oct 06 20:33:01 <en0x> ha! Oct 06 20:33:05 <en0x> i got all my msgs back! Oct 06 20:33:06 <en0x> ;] Oct 06 20:33:33 <hmagoo> I'm going to screw with a bunch of hardware in a minute here, man, I've been putting off this stuff for a long time. Oct 06 20:33:59 * en0x does a happy dance Oct 06 20:34:00 <en0x> ;D Oct 06 20:35:03 <en0x> but it doesnt show any buddies in google talk Oct 06 20:35:04 <en0x> hmm Oct 06 20:38:00 <en0x> let me reboot Oct 06 20:39:35 <Mousey> so in order to install the SDK i should install virtualbox? Oct 06 20:39:51 <Mousey> do i really wanna try writing apps? have I officially lost my mind? Oct 06 20:40:10 <Abyssul> yes Oct 06 20:42:45 <egaudet> on all 3 accounts Oct 06 20:47:42 <Abyssul> I cant wait for the Flash Beta. Oct 06 20:47:50 <Abyssul> Sadly, we probably wont have GPU support Oct 06 20:49:55 <Mousey> FINE Oct 06 20:49:58 <Mousey> this is PEER PRESSURE Oct 06 20:50:04 <Mousey> i'll have you know Oct 06 20:51:21 <Abyssul> Ok? Oct 06 20:51:22 <chrisa> Didn't adobe's presentation even say they worked closely on the platform to make sure flash 10.1 was using gpu support? Oct 06 20:51:34 <en0x> root 3269 48.7 9.9 112820 24352 ? S<Lsl 16:51 0:01 /usr/bin/LunaSysMgr -u minimal -a com.palm.app.firstuse Oct 06 20:51:39 <Abyssul> That doesn't mean that the beta will support it Oct 06 20:51:45 <chrisa> It seemed seamless enough to think it was using the gpu in some way, rather than just the framebuffer Oct 06 20:51:47 <en0x> i wonder where it saves the info that it has to run com./palm.app.firstuse Oct 06 20:51:50 <en0x> hmm Oct 06 20:52:22 <en0x> http://wklej.org/id/167489/ Oct 06 20:54:19 <tgies> whoaaa Oct 06 20:54:24 <tgies> anyone else just see an os update? Oct 06 20:54:46 <tgies> i'm running 1.2.1 and i just got an update notification and i had to double-check to be sure i wasn't on 1.2.0 Oct 06 20:55:04 <en0x> this is so stupid Oct 06 20:55:13 <en0x> how the f... i can import back my text messages! Oct 06 20:55:34 <chrisa> I tried to figure out where txts were stored in the db and never found them Oct 06 20:55:47 <chrisa> But I'm pretty bad with sqlite compared to say, mysql for some reason Oct 06 20:56:21 <bpadalino|work> if chrisa can't find them, we're doomed! Oct 06 20:56:49 <Abyssul> We do need a fix for that... Oct 06 20:56:55 <chrisa> Unlikely. I'll reiterate how little I know about the luna subsystem: nothing Oct 06 20:56:58 <Abyssul> I wish Palm backed them up with Palm Profile Oct 06 20:57:14 <bpadalino|work> :) Oct 06 20:57:24 <chrisa> Abyssul: My guess is that would be an enormous amount of data to transfer for some people Oct 06 20:57:38 <Mousey> i wish SyncML Oct 06 20:57:44 <chrisa> Add mms to the equation and it gets worse Oct 06 20:57:59 <en0x> chrisa: i found them Oct 06 20:58:02 <chrisa> bpadalino|work: ok that's not true, I know the linux layer Oct 06 20:58:12 <Mousey> remember how blackberry released those dedicated servers? Oct 06 20:58:15 <en0x> but somehow the database gets corrupted during import Oct 06 20:58:18 <SimpsonTP> is adding another online account provider some sort of magic ?? Oct 06 20:58:29 <Mousey> account provider? Oct 06 20:58:32 <chrisa> Define account provider Oct 06 20:58:43 <Mousey> i'd like to be my own account provider, for calendering and jabber Oct 06 20:58:55 <Mousey> and backing up Oct 06 20:59:04 <Mousey> but sigh, i ar not programmery enough ;_; Oct 06 20:59:04 <en0x> backing up ftw! Oct 06 20:59:10 <SimpsonTP> I'm running my own addres server Oct 06 20:59:14 <bougyman> Mousey: rsync doesn't require programming. Oct 06 20:59:16 <en0x> why tis database gets corrupted hmm Oct 06 20:59:18 <Mousey> oh yea, LDAP, ftw Oct 06 20:59:31 <Mousey> bougyman: rsync!! you might actually have something there Oct 06 20:59:36 <bougyman> that's what I do. Oct 06 20:59:36 * Mousey makes a note Oct 06 20:59:43 <bougyman> it rsyncs every time I put it on the touchstone. Oct 06 20:59:56 <Mousey> and can i install that from preware? Oct 06 21:00:05 <chrisa> weird, PalmPixi is following me? Oct 06 21:00:07 <bougyman> rsync? i believe it comes with it. Oct 06 21:00:18 <chrisa> I wonder who has that userid Oct 06 21:00:21 <Mousey> bougyman: the script that backsup-on-charge Oct 06 21:00:46 <bougyman> oh.. not, i just hooked into what the touchstone was hooking in Oct 06 21:00:53 <bougyman> brb meeting Oct 06 21:01:17 <SimpsonTP> is there any description on how to create such a provider ? Oct 06 21:01:33 <bpadalino|work> chrisa, watch your back .. i hear that pixi character is a bit sneaky Oct 06 21:01:50 <dBsooner-work> Mousey: i have an idea for you to make a n app Oct 06 21:01:53 <dBsooner-work> because I am too lazy Oct 06 21:02:02 <dBsooner-work> A front end for ShoZu Oct 06 21:02:07 <chrisa> It's a bit amazing how many bots are following me Oct 06 21:02:07 <Mousey> as long as it's "hello world" i might be able to pull it off Oct 06 21:02:09 <dBsooner-work> or a ShoZu style app. Oct 06 21:02:29 <Mousey> oh, or if i can write it in BASH Oct 06 21:02:30 <bpadalino|work> i can't seem to wrap my head around this code and it's killing me :( Oct 06 21:02:50 <Mousey> bpadalino|work: we'll miss you =( Oct 06 21:02:52 <dBsooner-work> i think if you wrapped your head around it, it WOULD kill you. ;) Oct 06 21:03:24 <bpadalino|work> i hope i survive Oct 06 21:03:42 <bpadalino|work> i understand the encoding part .. it's the decoding part that gets too tricky Oct 06 21:07:12 <FreeTim> just be glad you're not moduating and demodulating :) Oct 06 21:07:38 <dBsooner-work> it's 8am in aussie world.. I think rwhitby might be lurking on us.. Oct 06 21:07:54 <dBsooner-work> or muxing and demuxing Oct 06 21:08:09 <bpadalino|work> FreeTim, modulating and demodulating is much easier! Oct 06 21:08:12 <bpadalino|work> i'd rather do that Oct 06 21:09:08 <SimpsonTP> hmm it seems noone is interested in providing his own accounts ? :) Oct 06 21:09:30 <FreeTim> Well ya, my app will be providing it's own account, at some point. I haven't got there yet Oct 06 21:09:59 <SimpsonTP> I wanna have my own address book in my legacy system in my palm pre Oct 06 21:10:32 <SimpsonTP> and since there is a linkedin and facebook interface, it should be doable to create something yourself Oct 06 21:10:51 <Mousey> i expressed interested in my own accounts.. whoever ia m Oct 06 21:10:57 <Mousey> s/ia m/i am/ Oct 06 21:10:58 <infobot> Mousey meant: i expressed interested in my own accounts.. whoever i am Oct 06 21:11:55 <FreeTim> Yep. If you do that via an app... then you'll have to get a cookie (like a browser does) and then store it locally (because subequent requests will need same cooke) for the session-id... I think there was discussion like that in here yesterday. Oct 06 21:12:48 * Mousey thinks . o O ( sam cooke wants my session-id? ) Oct 06 21:13:06 <SimpsonTP> FreeTim, so I create a app which is a addressbook account ?? Oct 06 21:13:43 <Mousey> i noticed FlightView can make it's own "category" of account type thing, so when you look in your calendar, you can make a "flightview" event, as opposed to a "palm profile" event Oct 06 21:14:00 <Mousey> can i make an "egroupware" event? which syncs with my calendaring server? Oct 06 21:14:09 <Mousey> ...or do you mean some other kinda "own account" Oct 06 21:14:31 <Mousey> gmail calendaring seems to have its own "category" too in the calendar Oct 06 21:14:55 <Mousey> but as i don't run google, i don't want my calendar on their servers Oct 06 21:16:21 <Abyssul> I think Quick Install theming is broken... Oct 06 21:16:58 <FreeTim> I don't know specifically how to do it, I'm not yet at that point with my own app... :( Can others in room chime in -- ? Oct 06 21:17:59 <Mousey> FreeTim: as long as you understand what i'm saying.. I know there isn't a solution necessarily. but if you're developing in that direction, i'll probably join you Oct 06 21:18:16 <Mousey> (assuming you're interested in open source ;)) Oct 06 21:22:34 <FreeTim> Yep I see what you mean. No, I meant some other kind of account, if addressbook it'd be cool if it could logon to linkedin and facebook and just get all of those contacts onto the Pre... would have to logon to Facebook using facebook login credtials and similar with LinkedIn credentials Oct 06 21:22:47 <tgies> hmmmm Oct 06 21:22:48 <tgies> weird Oct 06 21:22:52 <tgies> i was running 1.2.1 Oct 06 21:22:57 <tgies> to which i updated yesterday Oct 06 21:23:01 <tgies> i got another update notification Oct 06 21:23:06 <tgies> and it updated me... to 1.2.1 Oct 06 21:23:16 <Abyssul> Would someone mind helping me look into why my theme doesn't install properly with Quick INstall? Oct 06 21:23:33 <FreeTim> and then somehow magically have them all in contacts on the Pre, without any errors. Well, we can dream Oct 06 21:25:41 <Mousey> FreeTim: well i like having to authenticate to get the contacts for each list, personally Oct 06 21:26:21 <Mousey> but, yah, i want my main on-phone contacts to sync with my own addressbook server, i'm not really that interested in "Palm Profile" Oct 06 21:26:28 <Mousey> i'm kinda freaked out by it, actually Oct 06 21:27:25 <Mousey> what if someone internally steals a bunch and sells them, and russians start calling all my contacts trying to sell them viagra? Oct 06 21:27:34 <Mousey> like it's never happened before Oct 06 21:28:27 <FreeTim> Yes, but you signed an agreement with regards to those. Btw, you can turn backups "off" it's one of the system options Oct 06 21:28:44 <FreeTim> at least, the contract that I signed, had it in there Oct 06 21:29:23 <FreeTim> There was Sprint verbiage similar to "you agree that we own your ass now" Oct 06 21:29:52 <egaudet> Abyssul, did you rebuild your theme? Oct 06 21:30:29 <Abyssul> I cant get it to work Oct 06 21:30:34 <Abyssul> The .css files dont transfer Oct 06 21:30:40 <egaudet> If you include css/js/html/json in your theme QI will ignore those files now as they are palm copyright Oct 06 21:30:46 <Mousey> they should rename it, the new Palm Faust Oct 06 21:30:47 <Abyssul> I think Jason removed .css support or something... Oct 06 21:30:49 <Abyssul> Argh Oct 06 21:30:59 <Abyssul> Alright... I figured that... Oct 06 21:31:16 <Abyssul> How am I suppose to create my theme now? Oct 06 21:31:25 <egaudet> the new theme builder should turn them into a patching mechanism for legal distribution. I talked with Jason a lot regarding it when the issue was brought to our attention by dBsooner-work Oct 06 21:31:31 <Abyssul> There isn't one Oct 06 21:31:48 <egaudet> And prethemer offers sed replacement of things I think. There isn't a new theme builder yet? Oct 06 21:31:53 <Abyssul> Nope Oct 06 21:32:02 <egaudet> How about prethemer Oct 06 21:32:07 <Abyssul> For 2-3 days my theme hasn't been able to be used Oct 06 21:32:12 <Abyssul> and Im getting a crapload of complaints Oct 06 21:32:32 <Abyssul> PreThemer doesn't support .css as far as I know Oct 06 21:32:49 <punzada> hmm, I notice that lottery application uses copyrighted images (mega millions, powerball) how exactly does that get approved? I could almost guarantee they didn't permission from those organizations >> Oct 06 21:32:51 <egaudet> unfortunately your theme was distributing copyright files so action had to be taken immediately rather than wait for themes to update Oct 06 21:33:05 <Abyssul> I understand that Oct 06 21:33:13 <egaudet> prethemer doesn't support direct css but offers options for things to change in css files Oct 06 21:33:30 <Abyssul> That wont work Oct 06 21:33:53 <Abyssul> Yep.. I give up on this theme lol. Too much trouble Oct 06 21:34:35 <egaudet> theme distribution was rushed and not well designed or thought out Oct 06 21:35:11 <egaudet> http://www.prethemer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31 Oct 06 21:35:46 * dBsooner-work is popular. Oct 06 21:35:46 <dBsooner-work> :D Oct 06 21:35:55 <dBsooner-work> I am all sorts of "tattling" lately. Oct 06 21:36:47 <Abyssul> Thats not going to work. I have over a dozen .css files modified that contribute to theming the entire Pre itself. Oct 06 21:36:55 <dBsooner-work> egaudet: did we drop Precentral.net themes, or did we figure out a way to parse out css/js/html files? Oct 06 21:37:00 <egaudet> of course you could always bundle themes up as patches + image replacement and throw them in ipk Oct 06 21:37:14 <egaudet> dBsooner-work, we hopefully parsed them out Oct 06 21:37:21 <dBsooner-work> yup, patches for your replacements Oct 06 21:37:21 <Abyssul> That is what the new version of Theme Builder is for Oct 06 21:37:41 <Abyssul> but its not released.. Oct 06 21:37:41 <dBsooner-work> sending out the entire CSS/JS/HTML file is against palm copyright. Oct 06 21:37:46 <Abyssul> Modified files Oct 06 21:37:53 <dBsooner-work> it's still their source code Oct 06 21:37:58 <Abyssul> Isn't modified .Png's the same thing? Oct 06 21:37:59 <egaudet> still the new theme builder might conflict with EPR if the patching and image replacement is kept separate, which I believe is the current plan Oct 06 21:38:02 <Abyssul> Still their icons... Oct 06 21:38:06 <egaudet> I make my suggestions and then I stay out of it Oct 06 21:38:45 <dBsooner-work> im not a lawyer.. I just know sending out a file that says "COPYRIGHT PALM 2009" at the top is not good. Oct 06 21:38:52 <dBsooner-work> and if you remove that, it's een worsed. Oct 06 21:38:54 <dBsooner-work> ;) Oct 06 21:39:14 <egaudet> I think image copyright is different but i really haven't a clue Oct 06 21:39:56 <egaudet> Abyssul, are your css files installing correctly from preware? Oct 06 21:40:08 <dBsooner-work> even more than that, if you overwrite a patched css/js/html file, you will be whiping out somoenes patches, but Preware/WOSQI/etc will still think they are installed. Oct 06 21:40:11 <dBsooner-work> thus they will have to EPR> Oct 06 21:40:17 <Abyssul> I havn't tried Preware Oct 06 21:40:40 <egaudet> well preware should be the same, i thought you had said preware installed it ok and that concerned me Oct 06 21:40:51 <Abyssul> Thats why I suggest that the user install the theme first then patches Oct 06 21:41:10 <egaudet> Abyssul, so any time I want a new theme I have to uninstall all my patches then install a theme and then reinstall my patches? Oct 06 21:41:11 <dBsooner-work> So I have to remove my 40 patches to install a theme? Oct 06 21:41:14 <dBsooner-work> that's not a good idea. Oct 06 21:41:25 <egaudet> Or people could just keep to the ipk standard set in place and have everything work together Oct 06 21:41:34 <Abyssul> Thats the reality of current Pre technology Oct 06 21:41:40 <Abyssul> We are limited in our progress Oct 06 21:41:40 <egaudet> no it's not Oct 06 21:41:44 <dBsooner-work> nno its not Oct 06 21:41:48 <dBsooner-work> patches / diff files Oct 06 21:41:50 <dBsooner-work> that's the reality Oct 06 21:42:01 <Abyssul> Then where is the solution to my problem? Oct 06 21:42:09 <dBsooner-work> i just told you Oct 06 21:42:09 <egaudet> it's the reality of current decisions made by people wanting to release things now now now without thinking of the overall scheme Oct 06 21:42:56 <egaudet> postinst/prerm scripts were added to advanced homebrew in order to basically package up anything you want to do, be it image replacement or patching or whatever Oct 06 21:42:57 <Abyssul> I can't make patches and I don't know how to compile .ipks Oct 06 21:42:58 <dBsooner-work> when developing you really have to take a lookj at the entire ecosystem before you make a decision. Oct 06 21:43:14 <Abyssul> I guess Im aiming for out of my league Oct 06 21:43:30 <dBsooner-work> So you learn.. our build.git screipt (which you can view online free) does it from zip files Oct 06 21:43:51 <egaudet> Keep themes out of autobuilder Oct 06 21:43:54 <egaudet> :P Oct 06 21:43:59 <dBsooner-work> hehehe Oct 06 21:44:06 * dBsooner-work isn't starting that idea. Oct 06 21:44:08 <egaudet> only because I'm anti-theming still haha Oct 06 21:44:12 <dBsooner-work> But tehcnically that's what it does to Precentral Oct 06 21:44:28 <egaudet> but anyway the virtual keyboard is basically a patch + theme Oct 06 21:44:30 <dBsooner-work> it downloads their zips and converts them to ipkg Oct 06 21:44:43 <egaudet> and the keytoss keyword patch includes copying 2 images over Oct 06 21:44:45 <dBsooner-work> Abyssul: a good source of info for what you are trying to do would be AnOutsider. Oct 06 21:44:57 <AnOutsider> what info is that? Oct 06 21:45:00 <AnOutsider> just joined Oct 06 21:45:07 <Abyssul> Im a good pal of Outsider Oct 06 21:45:08 <dBsooner-work> lol Oct 06 21:46:03 <AnOutsider> I think it's comcast, but can anyone visit http://www.prisonblock.com and lemme know if it's fast or slow? Oct 06 21:46:04 <Abyssul> How do you delete themes on PreCentral Oct 06 21:46:06 <dBsooner-work> AnOutsider: we were just discussing with Abyssul how to accomplish css/js/html replacements without OVERWRITING the entire file. Oct 06 21:46:21 <AnOutsider> Abyssul: I've been told you CANT delete themes Oct 06 21:46:24 <egaudet> anyway all the framework is in place for any of this stuff, it's all a matter of what people want to do. Oct 06 21:46:33 <Abyssul> Wow... fail Oct 06 21:46:45 <AnOutsider> as for the replacements, yeah the way I did it was with sed, but I know WOQI does patch now. Both are good for not effing up the phone IMO Oct 06 21:46:47 <FreeTim> AnOutsider: you can do a speed test at www.speakeasy.net if you think it's comcast Oct 06 21:47:08 <AnOutsider> well only certain sites load slow. I'm about to isntall google's page speed with firebug Oct 06 21:47:17 <AnOutsider> frustrating trying to solve issues when you dont even know if your own line is reliable Oct 06 21:47:39 <egaudet> ok I'm heading home, bbl Oct 06 21:47:39 <AnOutsider> http://code.google.com/speed/page-speed/ - like that loads slow as heck for me. I'm betting it's jsut Comcass Oct 06 21:48:57 <Abyssul> Anyone mind sending me in the right direction for the patch process? Oct 06 21:50:11 <punzada> For the love of god I hope screen off w/wifi on is set for the next patch, drives me nuts >>. Oct 06 21:50:27 <Abyssul> haha ^ Oct 06 21:50:36 <Abyssul> I can't believe there isnt a patch for it yet Oct 06 21:50:43 <punzada> there are solutions Oct 06 21:50:52 <punzada> but they all involve keeping the screen on >> Oct 06 21:51:09 <Abyssul> ew Oct 06 21:52:21 <Abyssul> So I guess no one has some kind of link that could shed some light on how to create a patch? Oct 06 21:52:26 <punzada> it just makes no sense to me, why would you turn off wifi but enable data connections when the screen is off, if you're trying to powersave that badly it should disable all data radios >> Oct 06 21:52:57 <punzada> (regardless should be user configurable) Oct 06 21:53:12 <punzada> what type of patch Abyssul, for themes? Oct 06 21:57:45 <Decimate> aw, palm fixed my cracked catalog. Oct 06 21:57:49 <Decimate> time to find something new to report :P Oct 06 21:58:02 <Abyssul> Yes Oct 06 22:00:50 <tmzt> punzada: because wifi is for webbrowsing and data is used also for email Oct 06 22:01:16 <tmzt> if the msm modem works properly, the data should be able to enter a power saving mode where the tower wakes it up Oct 06 22:03:54 <Abyssul> punzada, got any ideas? Oct 06 22:05:44 <Decimate> how do i get the app id of an app. Oct 06 22:05:46 <Decimate> like Oct 06 22:05:50 <Decimate> phone Oct 06 22:05:52 <Decimate> or google maps Oct 06 22:06:01 <Abyssul> in the .json file in the root directory of the app Oct 06 22:06:22 <dBsooner-work> Decimate: wy? Oct 06 22:06:33 <dBsooner-work> s/wy/why/ Oct 06 22:06:34 <infobot> dBsooner-work meant: Decimate: why? Oct 06 22:06:47 <dBsooner-work> ~botsnack Oct 06 22:06:47 <Decimate> dBsooner-work: curious. Oct 06 22:06:47 <infobot> dBsooner-work: thanks Oct 06 22:07:14 <Decimate> is this it Oct 06 22:07:18 <Decimate> for the app catalog Oct 06 22:07:18 <Decimate> com.palm.app.findapps Oct 06 22:07:23 <Decimate> would that be the app id? Oct 06 22:07:29 <Abyssul> I believe so Oct 06 22:08:51 <Decimate> just testing out stuff, making palms job easier :P Oct 06 22:09:17 <dBsooner-work> Decimate: whatcha tryin? Oct 06 22:09:27 <hmagoo1> what is a better email->sms address than xxxxxxxxxx@messaging.sprintpcs.com? Oct 06 22:10:05 <dBsooner-work> hmagoo1: there sin't? Oct 06 22:10:27 <hmagoo1> hmm, thought the fullname@sprintpcs.com worked or something.... Oct 06 22:10:52 <dBsooner-work> don't think so Oct 06 22:27:41 <FreeTim> does anyone else in the Southern Hemisphere have trouble with the GPS being off? Oct 06 22:27:59 <Rick-work> rwhitby has documented it and posted a patch Oct 06 22:28:08 <Rick-work> see his blog Oct 06 22:28:23 <FreeTim> wow that was fast, he was just looking at it yesterday. Thanks Oct 06 22:28:58 <en0x> ;] Oct 06 22:33:17 <rwhitby> Rick-work: I haven't posted a patch Oct 06 22:37:23 <en0x> rwhitby: ur makefile wasnt working on my debian install Oct 06 22:37:33 <en0x> i had to make few changes Oct 06 22:37:34 <en0x> :P Oct 06 22:41:03 <Technobabble> is there a page on the changes in this new web-os update? Oct 06 22:41:19 <PuffTheMagic> Technobabble: yeah google it Oct 06 22:41:52 <Flashpass> Hey all, is there anything special you need to do to get virtual keyboard working? I installed the patch and restarted Luna, and double tapping or two-finger tap doesn't seem to open it up. Oct 06 22:42:51 <zsoc|away> Flashpass, you have to be in a text field? Oct 06 22:44:07 <Technobabble> i still see that their word filter changes ill into i'll Oct 06 22:44:34 <zsoc|away> look at that, answered a question and i'm not even here Oct 06 22:44:45 <Flashpass> zsoc|away: Yes, I was testing it in the login field of the facebook webpage Oct 06 22:44:58 <zsoc|away> Technobabble, that's because in america, people don't get ill, they get sick ;) Oct 06 22:45:04 <dBsooner-work> Technobabble: it's Palm's way of getting rid of Swine flu. Oct 06 22:45:06 <en0x> double tap next to center button Oct 06 22:45:12 <zsoc|away> Flashpass, try the messaging app? could be a browser bug Oct 06 22:45:16 <Technobabble> ahhhhh Oct 06 22:45:22 <dBsooner-work> dangit! Where did JayCanuck go? Oct 06 22:45:40 <zsoc|away> dBsooner-work, he disapurrred Oct 06 22:45:46 <dBsooner-work> sikgh Oct 06 22:45:52 <dBsooner-work> s/sikgh/sigh/ Oct 06 22:45:52 <infobot> dBsooner-work meant: sigh Oct 06 22:46:11 <Flashpass> en0x: tapping there doesn't bring it up either Oct 06 22:46:35 <en0x> maybe u tapping too slow? Oct 06 22:46:36 <en0x> ;p Oct 06 22:46:45 <dBsooner-work> yeah, it's like a double click Oct 06 22:46:47 <dBsooner-work> tap-tap Oct 06 22:46:48 <FreeTim> try tapping twice more slowly, or more quickly, until you get used to the needed speed of 2nd tap Oct 06 22:47:02 <dBsooner-work> when you tap, the gesture area should light upo Oct 06 22:47:05 <dBsooner-work> light up* Oct 06 22:47:05 <Flashpass> haha sheesh gotta time it right, i'm doing it pretty quickly Oct 06 22:47:28 <Flashpass> I see the gesture area light up when double tapping there, are you supposed to double tap on the field itself or the gesture area? Oct 06 22:49:09 <Flashpass> okay...it just came up hahaha - can't believe it, could have been me not seeing it right away and trying again, which closed the kb Oct 06 22:49:37 <FreeTim> Glad that you got it. Takes a bit of getting used to, no? Oct 06 22:49:57 <Flashpass> Yeah, two quick taps, and then don't touch it again haha Oct 06 22:50:11 <dBsooner-work> yeah, cuz tap-tap-tap closes it Oct 06 22:50:13 <Flashpass> How does the two finger tap work exactly? Oct 06 22:50:20 <dBsooner-work> two taps to open, and then one tap to close it Oct 06 22:50:25 <Decimate> Windows 7 keys being sold - 80 dollars to reach my goal, anyone willing to help out the cause? :) Oct 06 22:50:27 <dBsooner-work> so 6 taps in a row would open and close it twice Oct 06 22:50:28 <dBsooner-work> ;) Oct 06 22:51:02 <en0x> Decimate: keys to what version? Oct 06 22:51:04 <FreeTim> It's like Mr Spock sign. Tap two fingers at the same time Oct 06 22:51:31 <Flashpass> haha, on the left and right of the button? Oct 06 22:52:33 <psykoz> So if you do a full webosdoctor flash of your phone, do you have to call sprint to reactivate it? Oct 06 22:53:18 <Abyssul> Im sure you were warned against that wern't you Decimate? Oct 06 22:53:20 <egaudet> http://www.precentral.net/theres-patch Oct 06 22:53:28 <Abyssul> Not to sound like police, but just saying Oct 06 22:54:17 <rwhitby> en0x: send me a patch :-) Oct 06 22:54:36 <en0x> ;] Oct 06 22:54:39 <Technobabble> what's the mount remount rw command again? Oct 06 22:54:46 <psykoz> mount -o remount,rw / Oct 06 22:54:49 <rwhitby> en0x: I bet it was dash vs bash, right? Oct 06 22:55:12 <Technobabble> thank you Oct 06 22:56:02 <Abyssul> How the heck do I create patches for my theme? Oct 06 22:56:53 <dBsooner-work> abyssul, take the file you want to make changes to, create a copy, make the changes then diff the two Oct 06 22:57:56 <Abyssul> I have the two files Oct 06 22:58:15 <dBsooner-work> one is stock, one is not? Oct 06 22:58:19 <Abyssul> you mean I actually have to load them onto my pre and diff them? Oct 06 22:58:28 <dBsooner-work> no, you windows? Oct 06 22:58:31 <Abyssul> Yes Oct 06 22:58:33 <dBsooner-work> k Oct 06 22:59:04 <egaudet> Abyssul, throw windows out the window Oct 06 22:59:45 <Abyssul> I plan on making a Linux dual boot soon Oct 06 22:59:49 <egaudet> I can give you easy linux solutions :P Oct 06 23:00:04 <tmzt> can't you do that stuff on the Pre itself? Oct 06 23:00:06 <Abyssul> I actually have the iso downloaded. Just been lazy with installing it Oct 06 23:00:11 <dBsooner-work> Abyssul: http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+create+a+diff+patch+in+windows Oct 06 23:00:17 <en0x> rwhitby: http://wklej.org/id/167562/ :) Oct 06 23:00:31 <en0x> rwhitby: it was bash Oct 06 23:00:39 <en0x> iused the makefile on few systems with same rrors Oct 06 23:00:44 <en0x> errors Oct 06 23:00:54 <egaudet> one option is to source control a stock extracted /usr directory on your PC, add your changes, and then create the diff Oct 06 23:00:57 <rwhitby> en0x: md5sum -> md5 ? Oct 06 23:01:13 <Abyssul> Thats what I did I think Oct 06 23:01:21 <rwhitby> en0x: I'll remove the bashisms Oct 06 23:01:26 * dBsooner-work wishes he could use linux, but his Toshita laptop doesn't play nice. Oct 06 23:01:29 <Abyssul> I took the webos versions and modified them (tested on my Pre) Oct 06 23:01:29 <en0x> lol Oct 06 23:01:34 <en0x> it should be md5sum Oct 06 23:01:38 <egaudet> dBsooner-work, virtual box Oct 06 23:01:44 <en0x> on freebsd system there is no md5sum there is md5 Oct 06 23:01:48 <en0x> rwhitby: ^ Oct 06 23:02:40 <dBsooner-work> egaudet: blah.. just run windoze Oct 06 23:02:54 <dBsooner-work> I wish VirtualBox would do RDA (Raw Disk Access). Oct 06 23:03:07 <egaudet> why do you need RDA Oct 06 23:03:11 <egaudet> create a share Oct 06 23:03:11 <tmzt> dBsooner-work: what laptop? Oct 06 23:03:19 <dBsooner-work> tmzt Toshita Oct 06 23:03:28 <tmzt> yes, which Toshiba? Oct 06 23:04:06 <dBsooner-work> egaudet: nah.. I have that 60GB partition that is unused right now.. well its for a linux sys install, so I would like to use it in a linux box. Oct 06 23:04:10 <dBsooner-work> tmzt: L305D Oct 06 23:04:18 <tmzt> how new? Oct 06 23:04:23 <tmzt> what's wrong iwth it? Oct 06 23:04:27 <dBsooner-work> end of last year Oct 06 23:04:36 <dBsooner-work> it has Insyde H2O bios Oct 06 23:04:42 <psykoz> So question, if I do webOS doctor (no the repair utility) on my phone, do i have to get it reactivated by sprint? Oct 06 23:04:42 <tmzt> yes Oct 06 23:04:45 <dBsooner-work> which it's ACPI's are all jacked up Oct 06 23:04:51 <tmzt> did you enable the virtualization? Oct 06 23:04:52 <dBsooner-work> and linux can't see them Oct 06 23:04:56 <en0x> psykoz: no Oct 06 23:04:56 <tmzt> or does it have that? Oct 06 23:04:59 <dBsooner-work> tmzt: yes Oct 06 23:05:09 <dBsooner-work> tmzt: Its a problem with ACPI only Oct 06 23:05:14 <tmzt> what can't it see? Oct 06 23:05:14 <dBsooner-work> everything works great. Oct 06 23:05:18 <dBsooner-work> Except the fans Oct 06 23:05:22 <dBsooner-work> and the sleep mode Oct 06 23:05:25 <tmzt> ah, ok Oct 06 23:05:27 <dBsooner-work> (lid closer) Oct 06 23:05:35 <dBsooner-work> and function keys Oct 06 23:05:42 <tmzt> strange, I have insyde and no problems Oct 06 23:05:48 <tmzt> also not using any special drivers Oct 06 23:05:48 <Abyssul> Activating TortoiseSVN :p Oct 06 23:06:01 <tmzt> only thing not working is the sound is low compared to windows Oct 06 23:06:08 <dBsooner-work> my sound was great Oct 06 23:06:10 <psykoz> hehe, good ol tortoisesvn ;> Oct 06 23:06:12 <dBsooner-work> tmzt what distro? Oct 06 23:06:34 <tmzt> ubuntu karmic Oct 06 23:06:39 <dBsooner-work> yeah, me too Oct 06 23:06:40 <dBsooner-work> aplha 5 Oct 06 23:06:48 <dBsooner-work> maybe its just the l305 Oct 06 23:07:02 * dBsooner-work might try gentoo for fun Oct 06 23:07:04 <dBsooner-work> or centos Oct 06 23:07:05 <tmzt> possibly, not sure my fans are controllable from linux though Oct 06 23:07:18 <dBsooner-work> Like mine does two things.. its sporadic Oct 06 23:07:34 <dBsooner-work> They are either spinning low even when thermal reaches 80+ Oct 06 23:07:49 <rwhitby> en0x: put a variable at the top like I've done for tar. on macosx it needs gnutar for instance Oct 06 23:07:51 <dBsooner-work> the only TRIP_POINT in THZN is Critical: 105 c Oct 06 23:08:16 <dBsooner-work> or if they actually do spin up full, they wont slow back down Oct 06 23:08:27 <tmzt> how dod you check? Oct 06 23:08:34 <dBsooner-work> check what? Oct 06 23:08:38 <dBsooner-work> if they were spinning? Oct 06 23:08:48 <tmzt> TRIP_POINT, THZN, etc. Oct 06 23:08:48 <PuffTheMagic> C ipkg service is very close ! Oct 06 23:08:50 <dBsooner-work> or trip-oont? Oct 06 23:09:16 <en0x> rwhitby: i c well I created my image and reflashed pre so i'm good probably wont see webos doctor for a year :) Oct 06 23:09:20 <dBsooner-work> go to /var/acpi/ Oct 06 23:09:33 <dBsooner-work> or is it /usr/acpi Oct 06 23:09:44 <dBsooner-work> do an ls of that dir Oct 06 23:09:55 <tmzt> no of those Oct 06 23:10:01 <en0x> /proc/acpi Oct 06 23:10:01 <en0x> ;p Oct 06 23:10:11 <tmzt> and /sys/bus/acpi/devices has a bunch of empty directories Oct 06 23:10:23 <rwhitby> Decimate: this is your last warning about trying to sell windows 7 keys in this channel, and other off-topic activities. You have now reached the threshold of being permanently banned if it happens again. Oct 06 23:10:26 <dBsooner-work> I wonder if you have toshiba_acpi module loaded Oct 06 23:10:33 <tmzt> critical (S5): 114 C Oct 06 23:10:33 <tmzt> passive: 114 C: tc1=2 tc2=5 tsp=300 devices=CPU0 CPU1 Oct 06 23:10:34 <tmzt> active[0]: 70 C: devices= FAN Oct 06 23:10:41 <tmzt> it doesn't use toshiba_acpi Oct 06 23:10:48 <dBsooner-work> see, I don't have that Oct 06 23:10:51 <tmzt> No such device Oct 06 23:10:59 <dBsooner-work> that's from THZN1? Oct 06 23:11:10 <tmzt> THRM Oct 06 23:11:18 <dBsooner-work> that's it Oct 06 23:11:22 <tmzt> your tables could be wrong Oct 06 23:11:29 <dBsooner-work> Odd.. I wonder why mine isn't grabbing tat info Oct 06 23:11:37 <dBsooner-work> That's the only thing I was mad about Oct 06 23:11:44 <dBsooner-work> not hibernating is fine Oct 06 23:11:50 <dBsooner-work> I prefer shutdown anyway Oct 06 23:11:58 <tmzt> rwhitby: hah, sorry about this Oct 06 23:11:59 <dBsooner-work> but fan's is annoying and dangerous Oct 06 23:12:12 <dBsooner-work> Oh yeah.. we are off topic discussing. My bad. :) Oct 06 23:12:28 <dBsooner-work> but its about LINUX at least. ;) Oct 06 23:12:51 <tmzt> I've got Linux keys :) Oct 06 23:13:39 <dBsooner-work> I hate the week my wife's aunt flo is in town. Oct 06 23:13:59 <dBsooner-work> It's like I have suffer from sympathy in-law visists. Oct 06 23:15:36 <en0x> i'm hungry Oct 06 23:17:19 * dBsooner-work runs around the room going crazy doing flips. Oct 06 23:17:39 * en0x is doing hungry dance Oct 06 23:17:48 <dBsooner-work> Yeah, me too actually. Come on 7pm! Oct 06 23:17:59 <en0x> yap im in a classroom Oct 06 23:17:59 <en0x> :S Oct 06 23:18:02 <en0x> till 9pm Oct 06 23:18:07 <Abyssul> Making patches is confusing Oct 06 23:18:23 <dBsooner-work> Abyssul: welcome to my world. Oct 06 23:18:25 <rwhitby> egaudet: ping Oct 06 23:18:28 * punzada thinks more people should join #webos-watercooler so when he rambles he isn't doing it with just himself Oct 06 23:18:35 <Abyssul> All my current ones just remove all the current text and replaces it with the file. Oct 06 23:18:44 <egaudet> rwhitby, pong Oct 06 23:19:16 <dBsooner-work> oh rwhitby: Egaudet and I established naming conventions and timeline this morning Oct 06 23:19:30 <dBsooner-work> well not so much timeline, but naming conventions and how we plan to implement it Oct 06 23:19:33 <rwhitby> egaudet: I agree with the discussion about reorganising the patches, and also having a separate autopatch repo if you think that's the right thing to do Oct 06 23:20:00 <rwhitby> and also with the need to a graceful upgrade of the ecosystem Oct 06 23:20:08 <oc80z> yooo Oct 06 23:20:24 <dBsooner-work> I agree with rwhitby's statement of egaudet's idea. Oct 06 23:20:45 <dBsooner-work> However, I am for "screw em all and just make the changes". Oct 06 23:20:58 <dBsooner-work> Just kidding. We need to make sure everyone is on the same page during the process. Oct 06 23:21:27 * egaudet is talking with Jason now Oct 06 23:21:37 <dBsooner-work> egaudet: awesome! Oct 06 23:21:47 <dBsooner-work> What about Preload? Oct 06 23:21:58 <dBsooner-work> does it just pull the tgz? Oct 06 23:22:44 <egaudet> Preload uses autopatch feed directly i believe, I have notified via email earlier and got a positive response Oct 06 23:22:55 <dBsooner-work> Awesome! Oct 06 23:23:26 <dBsooner-work> woohoo! Oct 06 23:23:30 * dBsooner-work is getting off early! Oct 06 23:23:52 <dBsooner-work> Headed to the house to fire up the home lappy and get started on the reorganizing of patches. Oct 06 23:25:58 <Decimate> rwhitby: was i warned previously? Oct 06 23:26:07 <rwhitby> Decimate: yes Oct 06 23:26:16 <Decimate> rwhitby: wasnt aware :/ Oct 06 23:27:25 <rwhitby> Decimate: webos-internals.20091005.txt:Oct 04 21:58:04 Oct 06 23:27:37 * dBsooner-work loves rwhitby and his logs. Oct 06 23:27:47 <dBsooner-work> whoa.. that was wrong Oct 06 23:27:58 <dBsooner-work> rwhitby loves his logs* Oct 06 23:28:24 <PuffTheMagic> lol Oct 06 23:28:47 * Decimate doesnt :/ Oct 06 23:29:26 <acydlord> that webos developer video palm put out isnt accurate Oct 06 23:29:45 <acydlord> i didnt see the part in there where you forgot to save your code and had eclipse crash out =x Oct 06 23:30:04 <dBsooner-work> DOes anyone hav ea link to the Adobe Convference video of the Flash demo? Oct 06 23:30:18 <Technobabble> what was the name of that cron job that ran and reported some info back to palm? Oct 06 23:30:22 <acydlord> lemme see if i still have it Oct 06 23:31:10 <rwhitby> Decimate: since you're otherwise in good standing, and you weren't aware of the previous warning, consider it a first warning :-) Oct 06 23:31:26 <Decimate> rwhitby: okay Oct 06 23:31:30 <acydlord> http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/05/flash-10-1-announced-for-just-about-anything-with-a-screen-webo/ Oct 06 23:31:33 <dBsooner-work> rwhitby has a heart. :LD Oct 06 23:31:35 <Decimate> just trying to make 80 dollars :P Oct 06 23:31:36 <acydlord> its at the bottom there Oct 06 23:31:47 <egaudet> dBsooner-work, we have to be careful with 'titles' Oct 06 23:31:57 <dBsooner-work> yeah? Oct 06 23:32:16 <dBsooner-work> not too long? Oct 06 23:32:41 <egaudet> they are the Description: field of the ipk metadata Oct 06 23:33:12 <egaudet> QI's tweaks section depends on that Oct 06 23:33:35 <egaudet> We shouldn't change them unless absolutely necessary and I will talk with Jason before Oct 06 23:34:08 <psykoz> hrmp Oct 06 23:34:10 <psykoz> gay Oct 06 23:34:19 <dBsooner-work> egaudet: you mean AFTER we make this first change? Oct 06 23:34:27 <dBsooner-work> stand by egaudet Oct 06 23:34:28 <psykoz> won't let me sign in to my profile on the Pre, even though password works fine when I login directly to Palm's website ;( Oct 06 23:34:35 <dBsooner-work> i am closing down this laptop Oct 06 23:34:37 <egaudet> no QI is already out... Oct 06 23:34:46 <dBsooner-work> hnag on Oct 06 23:34:47 <dBsooner-work> brb Oct 06 23:35:54 <rwhitby> egaudet: I think the title of a patch needs to be correct, and any tools relying on it need to be updated. Oct 06 23:36:07 <egaudet> I agree Oct 06 23:36:13 <PuffTheMagic> im gonna make a patch guys! Oct 06 23:36:25 <egaudet> just saying I have to let Jason know ahead of time for changes Oct 06 23:36:38 <PuffTheMagic> its gonna be a modification of the date it header patch, but its gonna toggle between showing date and time Oct 06 23:36:40 <PuffTheMagic> :D Oct 06 23:36:44 <PuffTheMagic> pimp style Oct 06 23:37:11 <rwhitby> egaudet: yep, but we should make whatever changes make sense for the end user, and not degrade the end user experience due to a tool issue Oct 06 23:37:20 <egaudet> agreed Oct 06 23:37:45 <egaudet> I will invite Jason to join in the discussion tonight for the renames Oct 06 23:38:47 <tharris-> sup Oct 06 23:40:17 <en0x> lol 5 people in my class noticed that i have a pre Oct 06 23:40:25 <en0x> and they like "pre don't have multitouch" Oct 06 23:40:30 <en0x> and i'm like WTF?! Oct 06 23:40:55 <Decimate> en0x: lol, someone told me their lg voyager was better Oct 06 23:41:05 <Decimate> i laughed and continued on with my day, smug as could be :P Oct 06 23:41:18 <psykoz> egh, anyone ever had to deal with this? I webOS doctored my phone, in the beginning where you can reuse your profile, or create a new one, I'm attempting to reuse my old one, says sign in failed, can log directly into my profile via palm.com's web site so password isn't incorrect Oct 06 23:42:03 <en0x> rwhitby: u gave me to think how to sign to palm profile after that webos doctor but partial erase did the thing ;) Oct 06 23:42:36 <dBsooner> ok egaudet Oct 06 23:43:01 <dBsooner> I understood that about him relying on the direct name. But I also thought we decided to change the names to get them conventional Oct 06 23:43:11 <dBsooner> the TITLE = in the makefile is good Oct 06 23:44:08 <tgies> hmm, so is there any way to spy on the track change notifications from the music app Oct 06 23:44:14 <tgies> i want my app to know what song is currently playing Oct 06 23:45:48 <egaudet> dBsooner, the TITLE gets mapped to the Description: ipk metadata in the Packages file Oct 06 23:46:11 <egaudet> you already have the TITLEs all set right? Oct 06 23:46:23 <dBsooner> egaudet: I believe so Oct 06 23:46:31 <dBsooner> let me grep TITLE * -R Oct 06 23:46:32 <dBsooner> one sec Oct 06 23:47:39 <en0x> http://palm.cdnetworks.net/devrel/video.html Oct 06 23:47:40 <en0x> :> Oct 06 23:50:50 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: ping Oct 06 23:53:17 <psykoz> ugh this is gay, can't activate my phone with Palm's server or something Oct 06 23:53:20 <dBsooner> sup PuffTheMagic Oct 06 23:53:27 <dBsooner> egaudet: they all look good Oct 06 23:53:40 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: do I still have ssh access Oct 06 23:54:06 <dBsooner> Unless we want the TITLE = to be similar to the <category>-<title>.patch scheme Oct 06 23:54:21 <dBsooner> PuffTheMagic: I had to boot to windoze for the last 2 days to get the autopatch done Oct 06 23:54:29 <dBsooner> I couldn't handle not having the fans kick in Oct 06 23:54:35 <PuffTheMagic> lol Oct 06 23:54:35 <dBsooner> They were super hot Oct 06 23:54:42 <dBsooner> I did find out something neat though Oct 06 23:54:50 <dBsooner> my thermal zone didn't have trip points Oct 06 23:54:51 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: i am still going to look into the omnibook patches Oct 06 23:54:53 <PuffTheMagic> but i think they are old Oct 06 23:55:10 <egaudet> Puff you are making a patch? :P Oct 06 23:55:13 <PuffTheMagic> i beleive you need the compal support Oct 06 23:55:26 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: well im talking to dBsooner about linux kernel stuff Oct 06 23:55:41 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: but yeah im gonna make a kick ass data on header patch Oct 06 23:55:44 <egaudet> just read the date thing above Oct 06 23:55:46 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: but one the toggles Oct 06 23:55:55 <PuffTheMagic> changes between time and date Oct 06 23:55:59 <PuffTheMagic> every so many seconds Oct 06 23:56:04 <dBsooner> Hey JayCanuck! Oct 06 23:56:05 <egaudet> oooh Oct 06 23:56:15 <JayCanuck> hi dbsooner Oct 06 23:56:16 <PuffTheMagic> s/data/date Oct 06 23:56:31 <dBsooner> PuffTheMagic: Untill I can figure out what's wrong with my fans, I will have to VirtBox a linux distro Oct 06 23:56:38 <dBsooner> I can't handle not having fans on.. or having fans on full blast Oct 06 23:56:52 * rwhitby listens to the PalmCast live ... Oct 06 23:57:00 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: any chance you can boot to linux so i can build compal support in and see whatthat gives us access too Oct 06 23:57:09 <Mousey> rwhitby: anything interesting? Oct 06 23:57:09 <en0x> rwhitby: what time is in australia now? Oct 06 23:57:25 <dBsooner> PuffTheMagic: but the palmcast is about to start Oct 06 23:57:26 <Mousey> rwhitby: are they mooning apple? or just flipping them off? ^_^ Oct 06 23:57:27 <dBsooner> :) Oct 06 23:57:29 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: :( Oct 06 23:57:31 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: This adds a driver to support some features of laptops manufactured by Compal Electronics, Inc as ODM such as HP OmniBook, Pavilion, Compal ACL00 and Toshiba Satellite (wich have Pheonix BIOS and is not supported by Toshiba driver) and Acer Aspire series laptops. Oct 06 23:57:37 <PuffTheMagic> that is from the omnibook patch Oct 06 23:57:47 <PuffTheMagic> which is why it think the compal support might be waht you need Oct 06 23:57:57 <rwhitby> en0x: 10:30am Oct 06 23:57:58 <dBsooner> I don't have Phoenix BIOS. Oct 06 23:58:13 <PuffTheMagic> which one do you have? Oct 06 23:58:18 <dBsooner> Insyde H20 Oct 06 23:58:52 <dBsooner> I am on Insyde v1.90 Oct 06 23:58:53 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: i think new compal use Insyde Oct 06 23:59:01 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: and the omnibook patch is old i think Oct 06 23:59:07 <PuffTheMagic> there is compal support in mainline Oct 06 23:59:10 <PuffTheMagic> which id dont think we have tried Oct 06 23:59:33 <dBsooner> I just wonder why my trip points are empty? Oct 06 23:59:37 <dBsooner> in thermal zone Oct 06 23:59:44 <PuffTheMagic> broken bios Oct 06 23:59:56 <PuffTheMagic> and they have special drivers for windows Oct 07 00:00:06 <PuffTheMagic> so fix their broken bios Oct 07 00:00:13 <PuffTheMagic> in linux you need a special module Oct 07 00:00:20 <PuffTheMagic> and i think compal might be the answer Oct 07 00:00:25 <dBsooner> but tmzt has a toshiba lappy with insyde BIOS and he has trip points Oct 07 00:00:39 <rwhitby> wow, people do read my emails :-) http://www.androidian.de/?p=642 Oct 07 00:00:46 <Mousey> http://www.coreboot.org/Welcome_to_coreboot Oct 07 00:00:49 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: there are degrees of shittyness Oct 07 00:01:18 <PuffTheMagic> Mousey: i have linuxboios on my epai mii Oct 07 00:01:22 <PuffTheMagic> for my car computer Oct 07 00:01:23 <PuffTheMagic> :D Oct 07 00:01:35 <PuffTheMagic> never upgraded to coreboot Oct 07 00:01:55 <PuffTheMagic> .5s boot times are nice Oct 07 00:01:57 <Mousey> nice Oct 07 00:02:00 <Mousey> rwhitby: wow!! Oct 07 00:02:16 <Mousey> rwhitby: i have like 10 new respect for you.. but also a question Oct 07 00:02:19 <Mousey> openmoko+Pre?? Oct 07 00:02:21 <Mousey> ^_^ Oct 07 00:02:32 <Mousey> i feel sad about openmoko now =( Oct 07 00:02:33 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: oh yeah... i couldnt find your docs about activation bypass.... someone was on here looking for help the other day Oct 07 00:02:51 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: end of the recovery page, and in the Makefile for meta-doctor Oct 07 00:03:03 <Mousey> *ahem* WebOSNurse Oct 07 00:03:13 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: i thought u were editing a wiki page since it seems like it just needed novaterm Oct 07 00:03:28 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: yeah, end of the recovery page Oct 07 00:03:42 <gkatsev> openpreo? Oct 07 00:03:59 <rwhitby> Mousey: freesmartphone.org Oct 07 00:04:13 <Mousey> haha, openpreo Oct 07 00:04:14 * Mousey clicks Oct 07 00:04:44 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: how long is this pre dev cast thing Oct 07 00:04:51 <rwhitby> oil: we really need to just do remove, install in the background for upgrade for patches and themes Oct 07 00:04:52 <dBsooner> usually bout an hour Oct 07 00:04:58 <PuffTheMagic> :/ Oct 07 00:05:00 <rwhitby> 1.5 hours often Oct 07 00:05:05 * Mousey huggles freedesktop.org Oct 07 00:05:12 <PuffTheMagic> what is the purpose of these talks Oct 07 00:05:35 <PuffTheMagic> or casts Oct 07 00:05:39 <PuffTheMagic> w/e you want to call them Oct 07 00:05:41 <Mousey> oh right, i remember FSO now, i wanted to do the LVM stuff for it Oct 07 00:05:46 <dBsooner> Just random stuff about webos/pre Oct 07 00:05:50 <Mousey> ~lart jeffgus Oct 07 00:05:50 * infobot wallops jeffgus with a main rotation server that needs rehubbing. It won't take long Oct 07 00:06:12 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: i can imgaine there being anything usefull on those casts Oct 07 00:08:52 <DraX> eing returne dinstead of the scope itself Oct 07 00:08:58 <DraX> erg Oct 07 00:09:06 <DraX> wrong channel Oct 07 00:10:40 <psykoz> So is there a way to re webOS doctor your phone? Apparently at the profile screen (startup screen) the usb connection isn't recognised by my computer Oct 07 00:10:50 <psykoz> Wasn't there like a boot mode or something? Oct 07 00:11:18 <en0x> look on the wiki Oct 07 00:11:22 <en0x> poweroff you pre Oct 07 00:11:33 <en0x> remove battery and put it back in Oct 07 00:11:39 <psykoz> I looked on the wiki but I coudn't remember the exact name of the "boot" mode Oct 07 00:11:42 <en0x> then press upper volume button and power button Oct 07 00:16:30 <psykoz> cool, got it Oct 07 00:16:33 <psykoz> thanks Oct 07 00:18:18 <psykoz> Hoping something just didn't flash right the first time with that activation error I was getting ;( Oct 07 00:21:26 <egaudet> dBsooner, ping Oct 07 00:21:33 <dBsooner> sup egaudet Oct 07 00:21:40 <egaudet> what's the status Oct 07 00:21:44 <egaudet> we ready to begin Oct 07 00:21:55 <dBsooner> Yeah, lets do it Oct 07 00:22:01 <dBsooner> you clone'd it yet? Oct 07 00:22:08 <Mousey> i can't stop buying $0.99 songs from amazon! Oct 07 00:22:15 <dBsooner> I can listen to the palmcast while workin Oct 07 00:22:16 <Mousey> somebody make the madness stop Oct 07 00:22:20 <egaudet> why am I cloning? Oct 07 00:22:31 <Mousey> can i listen to the palmcast from my pre? Oct 07 00:22:32 <Mousey> ^_^ Oct 07 00:22:42 <dBsooner> We aren't cloning, we are just going to make changes directly to gitorious/ Oct 07 00:26:29 <tlp> egaudet: do you think there's any chance of Palm ever officially integrating your keyboard patch, hypothetically, or is it too much of a hack? Oct 07 00:26:42 <tlp> (I remember something about it using the same keyboard the Sym key launches) Oct 07 00:27:13 <egaudet> tlp, I doubt it due to functional deficiencies. Although if they opened up their binaries to expose some of this deficiencies it would be an easy integration Oct 07 00:27:54 <egaudet> if they wanted to use it, I think I did it in a way they would like if the mojo is where it should be, it is its own Class Oct 07 00:28:13 <tlp> it seems like they could speed up development by reviewing community patches and integrating them Oct 07 00:34:51 <psykoz> so guess first webos doctor didn't do something right, I suspected such when it said "rebooting your phone" and I had to manually turn my phone back on, second flash and profile activated righ taway Oct 07 00:36:08 <en0x> ok so i got my old messages in new webos install Oct 07 00:36:12 <en0x> the issue is Oct 07 00:36:21 <en0x> that new messages dont display in convo Oct 07 00:36:30 <en0x> [; Oct 07 00:39:06 <en0x> heh Oct 07 00:39:11 <en0x> i've broken the database Oct 07 00:39:18 <en0x> gotta run firstrun app again Oct 07 00:39:22 <en0x> 6th time today Oct 07 00:41:21 <rwhitby> egaudet: we need to get author crediting from patches into the ipkgs Oct 07 00:41:46 <egaudet> yea it was in my plans Oct 07 00:41:53 <egaudet> I just don't know how to contact half the people Oct 07 00:42:12 <egaudet> should I just put the name from gitorious Oct 07 00:42:14 <wh0dat> is dieter's video off line or is it just me Oct 07 00:46:51 <Flashpass> Hey all, has anyone gotten the "Reset Scroll App Launcher" patch to work successfully in 1.2.1? Oct 07 00:47:04 <Abyssul> yes Oct 07 00:47:25 <Flashpass> darn... Oct 07 00:51:10 <en0x> [; Oct 07 00:51:51 <en0x> gotta buy checkers pro now Oct 07 00:54:15 <en0x> time to go home Oct 07 00:54:30 <en0x> but first i have to grop by my friend's house for a shot of vodka Oct 07 00:54:30 <en0x> ;P Oct 07 00:54:35 <en0x> s/grop/drop Oct 07 00:56:10 <en0x> laterz Oct 07 00:56:45 <mark___> I need to WebOSDoctor my Pre but I want to backup my Classic VM and SplashID data using internalz. What files do I need to copy? Oct 07 00:57:53 <rwhitby> egaudet: yeah, we just get the commit names from gitorious Oct 07 00:58:07 <rwhitby> and fix if anyone finds errors Oct 07 00:58:44 <mark___> Is there a fix for my Update tool not allowing me to update to 1.2.1? Oct 07 01:00:02 <jauderho> lol I got banned from the palmcast live chat. Oct 07 01:13:06 <Technobabble> what was the walkthrough called that dealt with enableing the call timer? i can't remember what it's called so i can't find it Oct 07 01:13:32 <Abyssul> When are we gonna get a update for VK for 1.2.1? Oct 07 01:15:13 <oil> it doesnt work in 121? Oct 07 01:22:09 <Abyssul> No Oct 07 01:26:32 <wh0dat> i must be losing it.. i can't find a simple way to log off of aim.. Oct 07 01:27:46 <kesne> Morning all Oct 07 01:30:18 <tharris-> morning Oct 07 01:30:23 <Abyssul> Morning Oct 07 01:30:26 <kesne> Donate: http://afsp.donordrive.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=donorDrive.participant&eventID=956&participantID=54105 Oct 07 01:31:17 <oil> jeez spammer Oct 07 01:31:26 <Technobabble> wtf Oct 07 01:31:35 <kesne> oil: really, good cause Oct 07 01:32:07 <oil> suicide prevention? Oct 07 01:32:08 <oil> "you shouldn't kill your self, it might kill you?" Oct 07 01:32:20 <oil> i dont think anyone thinks suicide is a good thing Oct 07 01:33:01 <kesne> But people still kill themselves Oct 07 01:33:04 <kesne> Good cause Oct 07 01:33:12 <oil> lol Oct 07 01:35:33 <mark___> Anyone want to help me backup part of my Pre? Oct 07 01:36:27 <rick_home> which part? Oct 07 01:36:39 <mark___> I need to WebOSDoctor my Pre but I want to backup my Classic VM and SplashID data using internalz. What files do I need to copy? Oct 07 01:36:40 <tharris-> so um app catalog seems to have an issue atm Oct 07 01:37:44 <mark___> I'll copy them to the flash card then put it in USB mode and copy that to my Mac Oct 07 01:38:07 <Abyssul> A Mac? What is that? :p Oct 07 01:46:30 <anon1> hey dbsooner are there any plans for a pre meet up in the tulsa/broken arrow area? Oct 07 01:46:44 <dBsooner> not yet Oct 07 01:47:32 <anon1> It would be great to try to do something Oct 07 01:47:51 <Xyg> I wonder what a Pre meet would be like Oct 07 01:48:24 <anon1> well it would have to be pre planned of course Oct 07 01:49:05 <dBsooner> pun intended/ Oct 07 01:49:22 <anon1> and everyone would need to be prepared and have thier agendas cleared Oct 07 01:51:09 <ird> Crap. Oct 07 01:51:31 <ird> Is there a way to revert patches installed with quick install or preware from the command line? Oct 07 01:51:46 <dBsooner> sure.. but why? Oct 07 01:51:47 <DarthPooh> Ello... Oct 07 01:51:53 <dBsooner> oh lord.. look who's here Oct 07 01:51:56 <rwhitby> kesne: that's your own free spam used up, no matter how good the cause is we cannot fill this channel with the other 300000 good causes too. Oct 07 01:52:04 <DarthPooh> seriously... sorry for the cursing at the end... Oct 07 01:52:11 <Xyg> Good job on the editorial Darth Oct 07 01:52:19 <ird> dBsooner, Because for some reason I get "Phone Offline" now, and none of the other removal methods work. Oct 07 01:52:21 <DarthPooh> which one?! Oct 07 01:52:33 <DarthPooh> palm's inability to code decently or jwz? Oct 07 01:52:36 <Xyg> Heh, the one regarding JWZ Oct 07 01:52:46 <DarthPooh> ok Oct 07 01:52:48 <Xyg> you mean prioritize as you'd like them too :D Oct 07 01:52:49 <dBsooner> ird: what have you tried for removal? Oct 07 01:53:03 <DarthPooh> Xyg, yes, prioritize sounds more gooder ;) Oct 07 01:53:12 <ird> ERP, and Webos Quick Install (which can't connect to my phone now) Oct 07 01:53:16 <ird> EPR* Oct 07 01:53:30 <DarthPooh> JWZ has great ideals, i am all for it... but pick your bridge to stand on man! Oct 07 01:53:41 <ird> So I'm guessing cli is my last resort before the Dr is called in. Oct 07 01:53:47 <rwhitby> DarthPooh: nice rant :-) Oct 07 01:54:06 <Xyg> Good ideals? In this case, I'd say they're tragically flawed Oct 07 01:54:10 <rwhitby> DarthPooh: and "gotcha" on the ribbing ;-) Oct 07 01:54:50 <ird> dBsooner, Don't they backup the files before patching? Oct 07 01:55:07 <Xyg> I'm not sure what point he's trying to make (nor does he, I think), but the amount of interest this cat has generated is alarming Oct 07 01:55:19 <DarthPooh> indeed... sometimes in a rant, I loose all sense of humor ;) Oct 07 01:55:24 <rwhitby> Xyg: he's an influential cat Oct 07 01:55:32 <Xyg> Be that as it may Oct 07 01:55:53 <Xyg> His influence hasn't strengthened his argument Oct 07 01:55:55 <bpadalino> could be his influence for palm's waived fees for opensource Oct 07 01:56:19 <DarthPooh> apparently, that was in the works long before his baby blogging Oct 07 01:56:25 <bpadalino> ah, didn't know Oct 07 01:57:08 <bpadalino> where was your rant? did i miss a link ? Oct 07 01:57:19 <DarthPooh> http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/10/06/doubletwist-unveils-an-alternative-to-the-itunes-music-store-powered-by-amazon-mp3/ Oct 07 01:57:37 <DarthPooh> verbal rant... during the podcast... post recording, so it was all after the fact Oct 07 01:57:43 <bpadalino> ah gotcha Oct 07 01:58:38 <rwhitby> bpadalino: it was a good one :-) Oct 07 01:58:41 <Xyg> hm Oct 07 01:58:50 <rwhitby> you could see the veins popping ;-) Oct 07 01:59:14 <DarthPooh> everyone was thinking it for a while now... his latest post just did me in for some reason tho Oct 07 01:59:30 <bpadalino> heh Oct 07 01:59:42 <bpadalino> jwz's posting more about his problems with palm ? Oct 07 02:00:01 <bpadalino> oh i see, part 2 now on his lj Oct 07 02:00:18 <Xyg> E/N Oct 07 02:00:20 <DarthPooh> I won't act like he hasn't contributed... that would be foolish of me and as near sighted as him. I am more concerned about how he thinks procedures don't apply to him because of who/what he is Oct 07 02:00:49 <zsoc> This place is getting popular Oct 07 02:00:54 <DarthPooh> always is Oct 07 02:02:54 <DarthPooh> did someone announce a free Twee app for tweeting me?! Oct 07 02:03:32 <rwhitby> DarthPooh: url to jwz's latest post? Oct 07 02:04:04 <DarthPooh> http://jwz.livejournal.com/ Oct 07 02:04:14 <wh0dat> anyone else getting unknown error PMT50999 when trying to enter credit card info for app catalog? Oct 07 02:04:25 <DarthPooh> "But still, if you were Palm, wouldn't your first step be to actually resolve the problem for the guy who brought your broken system to the attention of the press? I guess they don't see it that way." Oct 07 02:04:29 <DarthPooh> DOUCHE CHILLS! Oct 07 02:05:23 <Jack87> ya free twee app for tweeding you Oct 07 02:05:41 <DarthPooh> was that the twee creator or just a gag? Oct 07 02:06:52 <Jack87> it was jphacker Oct 07 02:06:54 <Jack87> or something like that Oct 07 02:06:57 <Jack87> is he twee creator? Oct 07 02:07:13 <Jack87> he said he will pick someone at random Oct 07 02:07:20 <bpadalino> interesting post by jwz Oct 07 02:07:24 <Jack87> sorry i dont use tweeter so dont know much Oct 07 02:08:41 <DarthPooh> I dont think he is... Oct 07 02:08:46 <DarthPooh> interesting. Oct 07 02:08:51 <DingALing61104> no hes not Oct 07 02:09:11 <ird> I missed the link about this jwz thing, can someone help me out? Oct 07 02:09:25 <bpadalino> he's definitely got a typical alpha personality Oct 07 02:09:29 <Jack87> http://jwz.livejournal.com/ Oct 07 02:09:37 <StormD> he doesn't have a typical alpha personality Oct 07 02:09:42 <ird> srsly? Live Journal? Oct 07 02:09:42 <bpadalino> sure he does Oct 07 02:09:53 <Jack87> DarthPooh, not cool if he made a false claim but he just might be i dunno Oct 07 02:09:58 <egaudet> http://forums.precentral.net/webos-patches/ Oct 07 02:09:59 <ird> Live Journal is for twelve year olds -.- Oct 07 02:10:42 <DingALing61104> does anyone know how to download youtube videos directly onto the palm pre Oct 07 02:10:52 <DingALing61104> with no computer involved Oct 07 02:10:58 <Xyg> One thing I'd like to see in the email client: the ability to select multiple files to include as attachments at once Oct 07 02:11:01 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic, ping? Oct 07 02:11:02 <StormD> no, a typical alpha is confident and doesn't need to bitch and whine and draw all kinds of attention to himself over stupid bullshit because he doesn't get his way. Oct 07 02:11:10 <dBsooner> http://forums.precentral.net/webos-patches/ Oct 07 02:11:11 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: ? Oct 07 02:11:19 <zsoc> DingALing61104, i think there's a patch somewhere that lets you download streaming something or other Oct 07 02:11:26 <DingALing61104> yeah i got it Oct 07 02:11:30 <DingALing61104> but DOES NOT WORk Oct 07 02:11:38 <DingALing61104> or maybe i dont know how but ive tried everything Oct 07 02:11:41 <rick_home> uhm Jwz is being a dork Oct 07 02:11:44 <DingALing61104> its called browser multi patch Oct 07 02:11:52 <rick_home> and that's unfortunate considering how much I respect him Oct 07 02:12:24 <DingALing61104> it mentions download video but i've tried orange plus tap on video it just says copy link, open in new card... no downloadig Oct 07 02:12:25 <DarthPooh> Rick, agreed... you don't want to feel that way, but he is bringing that out in a lot of people right now Oct 07 02:12:43 <Jack87> rod dbsooner gather credits! very awesome Oct 07 02:13:29 <DarthPooh> I noticed patches are getting updates, but there aren't change logs in their descriptions, version # changes and all... where do I check the info on change log for them? Oct 07 02:13:30 <dBsooner> Jack87 thanks... :D Oct 07 02:13:50 <bpadalino> i find jwz's stance interesting ... don't want palm in the middle of muddling with things, but want his apps in the app catalog .. Oct 07 02:14:06 <dBsooner> DarthPooh: not avail yet. Most of the time it's just because we had to bump the version #'s to add screenshots/etc Oct 07 02:14:08 <DarthPooh> by interesting, you mean asinine... Oct 07 02:14:09 <dBsooner> but we have fixed that problem Oct 07 02:14:17 <PuffTheMagic> who is StormD referring to? Oct 07 02:14:19 <Jack87> i am very much impressed dBsooner and in the podcast it was just talked about Oct 07 02:14:23 <Jack87> well podcast chat Oct 07 02:14:30 <dBsooner> Then there was a mass bump to 0.4.0 so we knew what was ready for 1.2.1 Oct 07 02:14:37 <StormD> it's unfortunate that so many smart people are such assholes, but you look through history and find lots of examples...jwz, rms, edison, Galileo, Sophocles, etc. Oct 07 02:14:39 <dBsooner> next is a mass bump to 0.5.0 Oct 07 02:14:46 <dBsooner> whcih will be the first real PUBLIC release Oct 07 02:14:47 <DarthPooh> ah, 0.4.0 = 1.2.1 compat? Oct 07 02:15:03 <StormD> Puff: jwz Oct 07 02:15:03 <dBsooner> 0.4.0 = 1.2.0 compat Oct 07 02:15:04 <kesne> DarthPooh: loved what you said today Oct 07 02:15:16 <dBsooner> and from what I have noticed, 1.2.1 compat as well Oct 07 02:15:20 <DarthPooh> thanks jordan Oct 07 02:15:22 <dBsooner> if one is not right, I fix it Oct 07 02:15:31 <egaudet> the community took autopatch a lot earlier than was ready to go public :P Oct 07 02:15:34 <dBsooner> I have installed all of them on 1.2.1.. only one or two have issues Oct 07 02:15:42 <dBsooner> MUCH Earlier Oct 07 02:15:42 <dBsooner> ;) Oct 07 02:15:45 <Jack87> DarthPooh, the patches on preware are still in the making and are being updated with info Oct 07 02:15:54 <DarthPooh> I never got 1.2.1 pushed to me Oct 07 02:16:01 <rwhitby> DarthPooh: we will be adding changelogs later, grabbing them from the git commits by the patch authors Oct 07 02:16:02 <freakout> egaudet: that's what you get for releasing it :p Oct 07 02:16:18 <DarthPooh> sounds like you guys have it all figured out. Oct 07 02:16:22 <Jack87> DarthPooh, as dBsooner it was released before it was ready for public Oct 07 02:16:33 <egaudet> I blame it on puff for convincing me to add that ipk, and me for posting a teaser, then people found it, then word spread Oct 07 02:16:55 <Jack87> so its all your fault egaudet Oct 07 02:17:01 <egaudet> pretty much :P Oct 07 02:17:03 <rwhitby> release early, release often Oct 07 02:17:04 <DarthPooh> it's the hit of the town, it made all other repo managers look silly Oct 07 02:17:14 <Jack87> hehe i liked being one of the really few people having it Oct 07 02:17:21 <destinal-sleep> StormD: I find calling jwz an asshole rather offensive. I think he's got a lot of good points, makes clearly the case of what he thinks should exist (which admittedly I happen to agree with). it's not like he's name-calling or something. Oct 07 02:17:38 <freakout> PuffTheMagic is so pushy, hate that guy Oct 07 02:17:45 <DingALing61104> can anyone help me find optware... i installed optware, there was an error so i removed it now it wont come out on preware as a download option??? Oct 07 02:17:47 <rwhitby> DarthPooh: we really don't try to create competition between repo managers. We do the right things for the right reasons, and hope that others will follow :-) Oct 07 02:17:55 <PuffTheMagic> freakout: ? Oct 07 02:17:58 <Jack87> destinal he has done name calling in the past Oct 07 02:18:10 <Jack87> calling people cheapskates for wanting a decimal point Oct 07 02:18:17 <freakout> PuffTheMagic: oh crap, you were listening :p Oct 07 02:18:29 <destinal> still, I think the asshole comment is asinine. Oct 07 02:18:37 <freakout> PuffTheMagic: I meant to say you were handsome and talented Oct 07 02:18:52 <PuffTheMagic> freakout: i know you are antagonist Oct 07 02:18:54 <Jack87> agreeded destinal Oct 07 02:19:00 <DarthPooh> i find that what you said earlier (months ago) to be most accurate tho... why bother having private side projects with 1-3 people when the community can create something better as a whole... you guys have proven that ideology with the latest iteration. Oct 07 02:19:12 <Jack87> and i respect the man as a dev.. think he is indeed an asshole as a person Oct 07 02:19:24 <StormD> I was speaking in general, and while I respect jwz a lot for his contributions and achievements, he's frankly a jerk. Oct 07 02:19:53 <freakout> PuffTheMagic: lol. "shit-stirring" is the correct term Oct 07 02:20:00 <PuffTheMagic> lol Oct 07 02:20:01 <destinal> StormD: I don't think anything he said in this PARTICULAR issue is out of line. Oct 07 02:20:08 <rwhitby> DarthPooh: that's exactly what we are about. Oct 07 02:20:34 <freakout> If JWZ is the topic, I can understand why the beaurecracy would drive him mental Oct 07 02:20:34 <DarthPooh> destinal: he wants to make the rules by which he wants to play and it's not even his game. Oct 07 02:20:38 * PuffTheMagic pictures freakout wearing a witches hat stirring a cauldron of shit Oct 07 02:20:57 <destinal> he stated the problem, explained how he'd made multiple attempts, asked for a fix, and is willing to go away and do something else if they'll just say they're not going to fix said issues Oct 07 02:20:57 <freakout> But then he slaps away the olive branch than Galbraith offered him Oct 07 02:21:07 <freakout> he instantly loses some respect there. it's childish Oct 07 02:21:11 <StormD> he's made a few good points, but he's crossed over the line into pot-stirring and sophistry with his tone, and his last post, responding to palm's policy changes is just petulant whining Oct 07 02:21:29 <destinal> freakout: I don't think so Oct 07 02:21:31 <DarthPooh> rwhitby: well, achieved. Oct 07 02:21:33 * freakout is frightened by how accurate PuffTheMagic 's description is Oct 07 02:21:52 <DarthPooh> he didn't go away tho... Oct 07 02:21:55 <destinal> freakout: he shouldn't have to jump through even more hoops to convince them to post his app or say they can't (which is all he's asking for) Oct 07 02:22:05 <destinal> s/can't/won't/ Oct 07 02:22:06 <infobot> destinal meant: freakout: he shouldn't have to jump through even more hoops to convince them to post his app or say they won't (which is all he's asking for) Oct 07 02:22:06 <freakout> destinal: totally agreed Oct 07 02:22:09 <StormD> I really want to agree with him, philosophically, but from a practical standpoint, I just find his approach all wrong. Oct 07 02:22:11 <PuffTheMagic> freakout: too bad im probably he only buddhist/wicken here Oct 07 02:22:16 <DarthPooh> he is still complaining about it with palm's latest attempt/alternative Oct 07 02:22:34 <freakout> destinal: But if he had taken up Galbraith's offer to talk he probably would have been let in on the news that broke yesterday Oct 07 02:22:50 <freakout> destinal: better late than never Oct 07 02:22:50 <destinal> StormD: his approach is totally right on because if people don't complain about Palm's stupid approach, the issues involved won't get attention Oct 07 02:23:06 <StormD> It's no mystery why they won't post his app: he refuses to get a paypal account and pay the developer processing fee. Oct 07 02:23:11 <DarthPooh> palm's approach still needs to make them money... Oct 07 02:23:20 <DarthPooh> and hosting his apps cost bandwidth... Oct 07 02:23:33 <freakout> The thing that bugs me is that he already has a channel to distribute his apps, via homebrew Oct 07 02:23:43 <destinal> DarthPooh: they should let anyone download anything from a web site like android does Oct 07 02:23:45 <freakout> Palm hasn't made any move to squash homebrew Oct 07 02:23:57 <destinal> this level of lock-in is ridiculous Oct 07 02:23:59 <DarthPooh> destinal: and they are going to... Oct 07 02:24:08 <DingALing61104> can anyone help me get python installed on my pre Oct 07 02:24:12 <DarthPooh> destinal: hence their recently announced methods Oct 07 02:24:24 <destinal> DarthPooh: no, they're not Oct 07 02:24:26 <DarthPooh> but to jwz, that's second-citizen Oct 07 02:24:40 <DarthPooh> via URL, sounds different from the app cat to me Oct 07 02:24:45 <destinal> DarthPooh: check out the 4 points in his latest article Oct 07 02:24:51 <DarthPooh> maybe I missed it... Oct 07 02:24:53 <destinal> he wants to host his app, let people click on it and agree Oct 07 02:25:07 <destinal> I find that totally totally reasonable and it's stupid we can't have that Oct 07 02:25:16 <destinal> it's lock in to make money at the expense of freedom of the user Oct 07 02:25:38 <freakout> Every software store for Palm OS also had a developer-pays system, IIRC Oct 07 02:25:47 <freakout> With the store taking a cut. Oct 07 02:26:02 <freakout> Palm's press release said that if you were just distributing your apps via the URL, it would cost nothing Oct 07 02:26:04 <destinal> freakout: for palmos you could host your own free app and have people download it, right? Oct 07 02:26:09 <freakout> It's getting into the Palm App Catalog that costs money Oct 07 02:26:11 <destinal> the issue is that he can't host it Oct 07 02:26:11 <DarthPooh> there is currently a method via homebrew repos Oct 07 02:26:14 <destinal> and I agree Oct 07 02:26:15 <StormD> I can't say I disagree with his argument, because I've already thought of a problem with Palm's approach to out of catalog app-distribution. Oct 07 02:26:23 <freakout> DarthPooh: exactly Oct 07 02:26:32 <Xyg> If he wants to host the IPK of his program on his personal server and not have it in the Palm distribution system, he's more than welcome to Oct 07 02:26:34 <freakout> I bet if he put up an ipk on his website, Palm wouldn't care Oct 07 02:26:46 <StormD> Well, it's not a problem as long as all out of catalog apps are distributed Free (as in Beer) Oct 07 02:26:51 <freakout> But that's something that would need to be tested in reality... it's not made clear by their guidelines Oct 07 02:26:58 <chrisa> So explain to me why someone just uploading their app to palm's server for distribution for free (no server hosting, no overhead, etc) is some sort of evil vendor lockin that exists to hurt users? Oct 07 02:27:02 <DarthPooh> he wants the system to be OPEN to security risks... Oct 07 02:27:08 <Jack87> Xyg, is right he can do so... we do have ways of installing apps via url Oct 07 02:27:10 <DarthPooh> palm isn't ok with that, and i am ok with them not being ok with that Oct 07 02:27:12 <destinal> DarthPooh: yeah, let the user decide Oct 07 02:27:15 <chrisa> I understand the appeal to install from anywhere, but that's a bit ridiculous of a jump Oct 07 02:27:26 <StormD> but if it's going to work the way I think it will, there will be no commercial viability to out of catalog distribution Oct 07 02:27:30 <destinal> chrisa: so android doing it is ridiculous? Oct 07 02:27:30 <DarthPooh> I think it will come in time too Oct 07 02:27:41 <chrisa> no, read my earlier commenrt Oct 07 02:27:47 <chrisa> Your insinuation was ridicuous Oct 07 02:28:01 <DarthPooh> android is silly for allowing that as well Oct 07 02:28:11 <Xyg> And at the end of the day, Palm's demands and requirements really aren't *that* excessive, especially now. If he doesn't wanna play ball their way, he can find another platform to develop his clocks and tip calculators for Oct 07 02:28:12 <DarthPooh> complete security risks Oct 07 02:28:18 <destinal> chrisa: the fact is, if you're going to allow anyone to upload and get a url back people can use, why not just let people host their own apps? Oct 07 02:28:19 <wh0dat> bah.. WTF!! air hockey has no sound???? Oct 07 02:28:30 <destinal> s/fact/point/ Oct 07 02:28:31 <infobot> destinal meant: chrisa: the point is, if you're going to allow anyone to upload and get a url back people can use, why not just let people host their own apps? Oct 07 02:29:07 <destinal> if people could only install apps for windows 7 via microsoft's hosting, they'd be up in arms Oct 07 02:29:10 <freakout> destinal: isn't that what, in effect, homebrew already does? Oct 07 02:29:13 <DarthPooh> destinal: good point... but palm is driving a fine line here... that being it needs to be "EAS friendly" vis a vis security Oct 07 02:29:25 <destinal> this is still a computer Oct 07 02:29:35 <freakout> DarthPooh, what does this mean for the homebrew gallery at Precentral anyways? Oct 07 02:29:35 <chrisa> destinal: Among other reasons, there are usability concerns on devices with a 4 inch screen as well as obvious phishing/etc concerns with just "install click here" Oct 07 02:29:39 <freakout> Is it going to keep running? Oct 07 02:29:44 <chrisa> Normal systems have to deal with that Oct 07 02:29:50 <DarthPooh> destinal: BAD BAD anaology... (i.e. see the iPhone as case in point) Oct 07 02:29:51 <chrisa> Palm seems to want to keep the ecosystem clean of it Oct 07 02:30:10 <destinal> DarthPooh: just because apple does something stupid doesn't mean we should all follow Oct 07 02:30:19 <destinal> it's about money and about control, which I think should be in the hands of the user, not palm Oct 07 02:30:21 <DarthPooh> and Palm wants their cut too Oct 07 02:30:36 <chrisa> Their cut? That has nothing to do with the free distribution Oct 07 02:31:04 <DarthPooh> no, but a tighter control system allows for non-free distribution Oct 07 02:31:10 <chrisa> Money and control for free apps that sources are provided for on the developers' websites and in the download itself Oct 07 02:31:16 <chrisa> I'm not really getting you dest Oct 07 02:31:27 <DarthPooh> I sort of do... Oct 07 02:31:41 <DarthPooh> but he is using poor analogies to make his point Oct 07 02:31:43 <destinal> chrisa: I don't get how you can be totally against me hosting my own app on my own server, and letting a user opt in to shooting themselves in the foot if they want to Oct 07 02:31:52 <chrisa> That's the problem Oct 07 02:31:59 <freakout> I get destinal. I agree. We should be able to install whatever we want from anywhere we want, simple as that Oct 07 02:32:05 <freakout> Palm's new system is fantastic Oct 07 02:32:05 <destinal> chrisa: they already can via homebrew methods Oct 07 02:32:07 <StormD> I'm all in favor of free distribution, but it's ridiculous to expect a giant infrastructure change overnight. Oct 07 02:32:10 <DarthPooh> ala CAB files Oct 07 02:32:14 <DarthPooh> ala PRC files Oct 07 02:32:18 <chrisa> and we don't have to provide support for homebrew Oct 07 02:32:19 <destinal> chrisa: just make it a control panel entry with a warning as opposed to dev mode and install etc Oct 07 02:32:29 <destinal> chrisa: you don't have to support third party apps Oct 07 02:32:35 <chrisa> The apps no Oct 07 02:32:37 <chrisa> But the install vector yes Oct 07 02:32:48 <destinal> chrisa: it works ok for android Oct 07 02:32:50 <StormD> I think Palm is moving i the right direction, but I think it would have been better if it WAS as simple as "You can host your own .ipk file and install it OTA" Oct 07 02:33:02 <StormD> and an update in December will allow that to happen. Oct 07 02:33:18 <DarthPooh> personally... i think it will move to that direction Oct 07 02:33:20 <kesne> isnt chrisa from palm? Oct 07 02:33:28 <chrisa> I don't know what the official reasoning is, but I also don't see why it's really any difference from "seamlessly upload to palm server y" vs "upload to your server x" Oct 07 02:33:35 <chrisa> Beyond us having a trusted url for users Oct 07 02:33:50 <freakout> chrisa: Palm server requires "self-certification" Oct 07 02:33:51 <DarthPooh> the limitation behind the type of ipk's is one issue Oct 07 02:33:59 <freakout> chrisa: wouldn't that mean stuff like "no tethering apps" Oct 07 02:34:04 <freakout> chrisa: no "adult" apps Oct 07 02:34:05 <freakout> etc etc Oct 07 02:34:06 <destinal> chrisa: the trusted URL is just an illusion of security Oct 07 02:34:12 <freakout> There's still limitations. Oct 07 02:34:22 <StormD> chrisa: it doesn't make much difference from the average end-user's perspective, but from the developer's perspective it makes a lot of difference. Oct 07 02:34:23 <chrisa> Didn't we say there was no oversight on the free/oss url method? Oct 07 02:34:28 <destinal> and creates pain for legitimate users Oct 07 02:34:38 <destinal> legitimate oss devs, etc Oct 07 02:34:39 <freakout> chrisa: "Self-certifiation", and guidelines have been posted Oct 07 02:34:47 <kesne> I really want download counts :P Oct 07 02:35:01 * DarthPooh slaps kense with a trout Oct 07 02:35:04 <Jack87> i want palmasutra Oct 07 02:35:12 <DarthPooh> hahaha Oct 07 02:35:15 <DarthPooh> palmasutra Oct 07 02:35:16 <destinal> the real reason I think, is to avoid someone else from making a competing store in a web app Oct 07 02:35:18 <Jack87> it was funny! i miss it Oct 07 02:35:19 <StormD> I want Agendus, how does that feel?\ Oct 07 02:35:19 <chrisa> I understand the appeal, I just don't think it is as big a deal as it is being drummed up as. But I also don't want to look at porn on a bus Oct 07 02:35:22 <DarthPooh> on a III rocked Oct 07 02:35:22 <chrisa> (ok I jest) Oct 07 02:35:44 <kesne> DarthPooh: What? Most people want to know how many app downloads they got Oct 07 02:35:44 <DarthPooh> of course you do chrisa Oct 07 02:35:47 <chrisa> I'm curious now, what sort of "adult" apps exist for android Oct 07 02:35:47 <freakout> Application Content Criteria: http://developer.palm.com//index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1817 Oct 07 02:35:52 <Jack87> palmasutra is not porn :-\ Oct 07 02:35:52 <kesne> I have NO idea how much money I've made Oct 07 02:36:09 <destinal> chrisa: it's not that it's such a big deal, but on principle, I don't see why palm has to be the gatekeeper for all apps Oct 07 02:36:26 <DarthPooh> they aren't Oct 07 02:36:32 <destinal> I was against it with apple and I'm against it with palm, even if palm is better than apple, the concept is still wrong Oct 07 02:36:33 <DarthPooh> cough-preware-cough Oct 07 02:36:34 <Jack87> MS is not a gatekeeper Oct 07 02:36:43 <StormD> How much more money does RIM make from store.crackberry.com than from AppWorld? Oct 07 02:36:48 <StormD> or less? Oct 07 02:36:48 <chrisa> We're not really a gatekeeper here. Here's a better analogy Oct 07 02:37:03 <StormD> now, clearly that's a stupid question, or is it? Oct 07 02:37:03 <DarthPooh> if they are the gatekeeper, who is the keymaster? Oct 07 02:37:04 <freakout> The real question is, once Palm has their new system in place, are they going to stomp on people hosting homebrew? Oct 07 02:37:17 <freakout> DarthPooh: Rick Moranis Oct 07 02:37:24 <kesne> Here are the downloads today, this week, and total for checkers pro according to the dev site: NA NA NA Oct 07 02:37:27 <DarthPooh> freakout: circle gets the square Oct 07 02:37:31 <destinal> DarthPooh: yes, there's dev mode, but that's still a bunch of hoops to jump through (meaninglessly, as it happens) Oct 07 02:37:38 <chrisa> There is a big pearly gate with $$$ signs, we watch that (app store). Then there is a large open door with a porn detector (free/oss) next to it, and then beyond that there is a dumb waiter in the wall that you pull the lever on and magic comes out (preware) Oct 07 02:37:47 <chrisa> and nothing is restricting you to one method Oct 07 02:38:16 <chrisa> Remember when people said installing apps via email was *a bad thing*? Oct 07 02:38:21 <chrisa> I see some turnabout Oct 07 02:38:28 <DarthPooh> PALM said that mostly Oct 07 02:38:29 <destinal> chrisa: it was only a bad thing because it didn't prompt for approval Oct 07 02:38:42 <DarthPooh> but webos-internals agreed for destinals point Oct 07 02:38:43 <freakout> chrisa: the issue was no warning to the user Oct 07 02:39:04 <freakout> I can install via email on Palm OS - you get a prompt saying "Do you want to add to Applications" Oct 07 02:39:05 <StormD> So the big question...will Preware be submitted for install as an OTA link? Oct 07 02:39:21 <AnOutsider> I dont think it can be Oct 07 02:39:23 <freakout> StormD: good question. rwhitby? oil? :) Oct 07 02:39:25 <AnOutsider> since it relies on a service Oct 07 02:39:25 <DarthPooh> even WM2003 asked if you wanted to install a cab Oct 07 02:39:41 <egaudet> I don't think Palm will ever support advanced homebrew (running postinst/prerm scripts) Oct 07 02:39:41 <chrisa> I'd venture to guess that for 99% of our userbase the two "storefronts" are fine. The other users are still free to download ipkgs (hell, you can download them in the browser now right, then install via terminal) at their whims Oct 07 02:39:41 <Jack87> it can not be Oct 07 02:39:45 <egaudet> and Preware requires a service Oct 07 02:39:47 <Jack87> due to the service Oct 07 02:39:48 <chrisa> We're not locking anyone to anything Oct 07 02:39:49 <destinal> was there really such a huge issue on palmos that it had to be changed, or is it about control and about preventing competition? Oct 07 02:39:52 <egaudet> that requires a postinst script to install Oct 07 02:40:11 <StormD> They say they'll accept anything without review... Oct 07 02:40:28 <StormD> Can't hurt to try, right? Oct 07 02:40:31 <AnOutsider> a service cant be isntalled and setup with an ipk as far as I know Oct 07 02:40:44 <DarthPooh> correct Oct 07 02:40:46 <StormD> oh, that's probably true. Oct 07 02:40:48 <DarthPooh> script Oct 07 02:40:49 <AnOutsider> if that were the case, filecoaster could install preware Oct 07 02:41:10 <DarthPooh> well file coaster can isntall the ipk, just not the service that preware uses Oct 07 02:41:13 <destinal> AnOutsider: there are some potential ways I've thought about, but they're hacks Oct 07 02:41:14 <freakout> Technical Criteria: The application does not use undocumented webOS APIs or other capabilities outside the scope of the public Mojo SDK. Oct 07 02:41:25 <chrisa> sign, and as usual I'm throwing out my "I do not speak officially, I don't know anything about luna and beyond" disclaimer Oct 07 02:41:26 <destinal> AnOutsider: it's not intended to allow installation outside of /var Oct 07 02:41:31 <AnOutsider> Darth: correct, and what is preware without the service? Oct 07 02:41:45 <DarthPooh> double correct Oct 07 02:41:52 <DarthPooh> well, limited Oct 07 02:41:56 <AnOutsider> besides, I kinda feel like it's just asking too much. You want to do hacky things, palm wont stop you, but dont expect them to support it Oct 07 02:41:57 <DarthPooh> ;) Oct 07 02:41:59 <destinal> chrisa: I'm not trying to pick on you, just pointing out some of the criticism of the "one true catalog" approach palm has taken Oct 07 02:42:30 <DarthPooh> one true catalog approach to simple users... Oct 07 02:42:41 <destinal> chrisa: I know palm has been supportive of homebrew, and that's cool, but it's not quite the same as just allowing opt in to download off the web (which SHOULD be done IMO) Oct 07 02:42:47 <cdadams1223> I feel like a noob asking this, but I can't remove the "battery icon as percent" tweak. I've tried removal from Preware and WebOS QI, but no luck. It's still there. When I go into Preware now, it shows that I don't have it installed. Thoughts? Oct 07 02:43:00 <DarthPooh> my fear is for me as an advanced user... who gets screwed on not being able to restore fully because of said hackery Oct 07 02:43:13 <StormD> on device catalog is a good way to get apps to most users. Oct 07 02:43:29 <chrisa> destinal: that's what I'm saying though, it's not 'one true catalog', since the os still allows other avenues for power users. So it seems like an unfair comparison when the majority of users will never even care to install via a webpage ipkg Oct 07 02:43:43 <chrisa> For power users, I'll agree. But we're never happy Oct 07 02:43:44 <AnOutsider> Darth: as an "advanced" user, you should understand the risks in what you are doing Oct 07 02:43:52 <AnOutsider> not to mention I havent heard a single case that the Dr couldnt fix Oct 07 02:43:55 <destinal> chrisa: there's some middle ground of some people who would install from a webpage but not devmode and run a native app Oct 07 02:44:13 <DarthPooh> AnOutsider: then you haven't heard of my case when 1.04 came out ;) Oct 07 02:44:30 <chrisa> What would bridge a huge gap is getting preware into one of the stores somehow, then springboarding off that Oct 07 02:44:38 <AnOutsider> I also side with chrisa. This is a new day and age and no longer is it just really technically inclined people using palm devices. They have to appeal to the masses and the best way is an app catalog Oct 07 02:44:41 <destinal> chrisa: and then there's the unknown question of what palm would do against a store operating like the homebrew stuff, and then selling apps Oct 07 02:44:42 <chrisa> Though, preware is then a new gatekeeper ;) Oct 07 02:44:48 <AnOutsider> I think its great they're not limiting the installation via other means Oct 07 02:45:05 <tlp> I agree with destinal, but it's still comforting that Palm is trying to find a middle ground. Oct 07 02:45:12 <AnOutsider> destinal: why is it even a problem? Oct 07 02:45:19 <AnOutsider> It kinda feels like everyone's in search of a problem Oct 07 02:45:24 <freakout> AnOutsider: it's a principle thing, really Oct 07 02:45:33 <freakout> AnOutsider: we can install homebrew if we want to. we all know how Oct 07 02:45:36 <StormD> there's been what, 2-3 millions downloads from precentral now? on close to a million pres in circulation? I'm probably typical, and I've got 50-60 homebrew apps, 40-50 of which I've downloaded twice since I had to doctor, and I've also downloaded a lot of updates, I don't know if those are counted, but if they are, I'm good for 300 just myself. Oct 07 02:45:37 <chrisa> I have no idea if palm has any sort of licensing/agreement restricting alternative revenue sources Oct 07 02:45:40 <DarthPooh> I think palm needs to make money off of this... Oct 07 02:45:45 <DarthPooh> so they are trying Oct 07 02:45:49 <DarthPooh> I dont blame them Oct 07 02:45:54 <chrisa> What do you mean by that? Oct 07 02:46:14 <AnOutsider> freakout: so what's the problem? Oct 07 02:46:15 <Jack87> preware is a repo list Oct 07 02:46:15 <StormD> if it's 200-300 downloads per user, that 2-3 million comes down to a pretty small percentage of the pres in circulation. Oct 07 02:46:18 <freakout> chrisa: I don't think they do (restrict alternate revenue). In fact one of the points made in the press release is that you're free to charge Oct 07 02:46:24 <Jack87> it doesnt do anything with the apps other then list and install them Oct 07 02:46:24 <destinal> AnOutsider: I think we're mostly okay with the situation we've got, but I think a decent number of us agree with jwz that palm has placed what some of us consider unreasonable restrictions on use of their OS with third party apps Oct 07 02:46:35 <bpadalino> i think palm doesn't want to have billions of apps that do nothing but aggregate other web data ... which is why they have the $50 per app cost ... i don't think it's anything to try to make money Oct 07 02:46:46 <destinal> AnOutsider: it's not so bad you can't work around it with dev mode, but still ideally wouldn't be needed Oct 07 02:46:55 <tlp> yes, it seems like a mechanism to prevent the app catalog from being flooded with crap Oct 07 02:47:03 <chrisa> The $50 entry is likely more to prevent people from spamming the catalog with junk $1 apps Oct 07 02:47:04 <DarthPooh> chrisa: I mean, the app cat is a definitive way of making money, and allowing other sources even for opensource/freeware, makes palm lose some of their control. Oct 07 02:47:05 <freakout> AnOutsider: like I said, principle thing. We can get around it, but we shouldn't have to circumvent - even when it's as easy as it already is. Oct 07 02:47:06 <chrisa> My guess at least Oct 07 02:47:07 <tlp> or their staff anyway Oct 07 02:47:12 <AnOutsider> destinal: since I'm late, such as? Oct 07 02:47:13 <bpadalino> chrisa agreed Oct 07 02:47:16 <StormD> sometimes it's good to have apps that do nothing but aggregate web-data though. Oct 07 02:47:22 <AnOutsider> freakout: get around WHAT though? Oct 07 02:47:33 <chrisa> DarthPooh: I don't think palm sees the app catalog as a great revenue source for themselves, just developers Oct 07 02:47:36 <LurkerXXX____> unreasonable restrictions? do homebrew and you can do whatever you want. If you want to be in the official app catalog for normal users, you let palm check it out. I think that's a good way to go. Oct 07 02:47:36 <destinal> AnOutsider: http://jwz.livejournal.com/1100218.html Oct 07 02:47:36 <AnOutsider> If they're ok with homebrew, and not suing people for writing custom services and crap, what's the issue? Oct 07 02:47:45 <destinal> check out "What I want" and the 4 points Oct 07 02:47:50 <freakout> AnOutsider: not being able to install direct without having to go through Palm *at all* Oct 07 02:47:56 <destinal> it's totally reasonable and silly we can't have it (yet) Oct 07 02:47:57 <StormD> because the data which is presented in one fashion on a computer can be formatted and presented much more usefully on a handset. For example, the epicurious.com app for iphone. Oct 07 02:48:01 <chrisa> I mean, maybe it will be later. But it's more about building community around the hardware and os Oct 07 02:48:16 <DarthPooh> hey JAy Oct 07 02:48:18 <chrisa> Pixi is out soon, other products in the future. That's the big picture Oct 07 02:48:20 <StormD> That's a great app, which I'd love to have on Pre Oct 07 02:48:21 <DarthPooh> err JAy Oct 07 02:48:45 <bpadalino> i am interested in checking out the pixi hardware .. a friend of mine just bought a used pre Oct 07 02:48:49 <AnOutsider> destinal: as usual, jwz's blog reads to me like a whiney brat. Complaining about something he admits he doesn't know? Oct 07 02:48:51 <Jack87> Jack87, is going! goodnight you all Oct 07 02:48:59 <AnOutsider> For all we know it may work out EXACTLY like that Oct 07 02:49:02 <DarthPooh> nite jack Oct 07 02:49:09 <freakout> later Jack Oct 07 02:49:15 <StormD> The app catalog isn't a revenue stream for Palm, but if there isn't robust app availability, the revenue stream of WebOS devices won't exist. Oct 07 02:49:19 <destinal> AnOutsider: not from what palm has said, they say you have to upload and host with them and get a url back Oct 07 02:49:23 <chrisa> jwz is generally knowledgeable, he just comes across as brash. You get used to him over time Oct 07 02:49:39 <destinal> AnOutsider: again, just silly Oct 07 02:49:42 <AnOutsider> AKA whiney Oct 07 02:49:49 <AnOutsider> But yeah, I see your point Oct 07 02:49:49 <chrisa> Stallman is worse Oct 07 02:49:50 <chrisa> :) Oct 07 02:49:55 <AnOutsider> You dont want to have to actually host it with palm Oct 07 02:49:55 <freakout> lol Oct 07 02:50:04 <AnOutsider> Let's just let the thing roll out and THEN light the torches Oct 07 02:50:05 <freakout> Stallman is a parody of himself lately Oct 07 02:50:10 <AnOutsider> I'll even supply you with cheap pitchforks Oct 07 02:50:20 <LurkerXXX____> he comes over as a prima donna Oct 07 02:50:23 <destinal> AnOutsider: the point is, if you can upload to palm and get a URL back instantly, it's not providing any extra security Oct 07 02:50:27 <DarthPooh> palm will still know what you've installed on your device, they see all anyways. Oct 07 02:50:40 <jauderho> but it's easy to deal with stallman. Oct 07 02:50:42 <destinal> AnOutsider: so it's a useless restriction unless you consider control Oct 07 02:50:51 <AnOutsider> Well not really Oct 07 02:50:51 <jauderho> just spray him with water and show him a spider plant Oct 07 02:51:00 <chrisa> destinal: I wouldn't be surprised if some sanity checks were done to the url'd apps Oct 07 02:51:01 <flare576> dBsooner: Question for you if you're around RE: editing the "Applying Patches" Wiki page and proper procedure. Oct 07 02:51:02 <AnOutsider> if an app turns out to be soem sort of harming thing, they can then disable it Oct 07 02:51:07 <AnOutsider> but I do see the point Oct 07 02:51:31 <dBsooner> flare576: k.. can you give me a bit.. egaudet and I are really trying to get these patches organized. Oct 07 02:51:55 <flare576> dBsooner: Go for it, had a question about updating patches as well, but it can wait too: I'll just start prepping my content Oct 07 02:51:58 <DarthPooh> why does preware give me the spinning wheel of death "updating"? Oct 07 02:51:58 * freakout cracks whip in dBsooner 's direction Oct 07 02:52:13 <dBsooner> DarthPooh: because it's trying to refresh a repo Oct 07 02:52:17 <AnOutsider> I dunno darth, but I usually just exit and reopen Oct 07 02:52:18 <dBsooner> DarthPooh: close and open again Oct 07 02:52:28 <chrisa> I don't know why I'm running 1.2.1 on my pre Oct 07 02:52:33 <DarthPooh> yeah, I do that... just wanna know if you're going to put a timeout in there Oct 07 02:52:34 <dBsooner> DarthPooh: if it still doesn't go, then a repo might be down. Oct 07 02:52:50 <dBsooner> That was the plan.. *COUGH* PuffTheMagic_! *cough* Oct 07 02:52:54 <StormD> a timeout would be nice. Oct 07 02:53:09 <DarthPooh> ouch, sore subject Oct 07 02:53:12 <AnOutsider> or a "skip/cancel" Oct 07 02:53:12 <DarthPooh> :) Oct 07 02:53:28 <dBsooner> oil: could that be done on the Preware side? or would that have to be the service side? Oct 07 02:53:36 <StormD> I've spun out on about 20% of my Preware opens lately. Oct 07 02:53:54 <StormD> That is a number I just pulled out of my ass, btw. Oct 07 02:54:02 <AnOutsider> haha "spun out" Oct 07 02:54:19 <freakout> That's why I set mine to update manually rather than on open :) Oct 07 02:54:22 <DarthPooh> 65.42% of all stats are made up on the spot Oct 07 02:54:51 <DarthPooh> steampunk theme is pretty cool imo Oct 07 02:55:10 <chrisa> I forget, which of the two webos books did people dislike. Developing Applications in Javascript using Mojo, or Developing Applications for webOS? Oct 07 02:55:28 <AnOutsider> steampunk? oldfashion? Oct 07 02:55:38 <DarthPooh> old fashion, yes... sorry Oct 07 02:55:49 <destinal> chrisa: there's more than one? Oct 07 02:55:52 <AnOutsider> heh, thought maybe I missed a theme Oct 07 02:55:56 <StormD> Why does the basic Luna screen not carry any information or widgets? Oct 07 02:56:13 <destinal> chrisa: http://www.amazon.com/Palm-webOS-Mitch-Allen/dp/0596155255 -- this one has 1.5 stars Oct 07 02:56:27 <destinal> the problem is the code in it doesn't even work unmodified :( Oct 07 02:56:35 <chrisa> hm, maybe I'm confused. I thought there were two Oct 07 02:56:49 <destinal> they were writing it as development was progressing and it never targeted 1.0.2 (release version) Oct 07 02:56:52 <tmzt> basic Luna screen? Oct 07 02:56:55 <chrisa> I wonder if mitch is doing a revised edition Oct 07 02:56:58 <StormD> I would give my little toe to put a weather widget, last two emails, and next two or three calendar items as agenda items on the home screen. Oct 07 02:57:06 <DarthPooh> I wish the Precentral theme had a skull for the lockout screen :( Oct 07 02:57:14 <AnOutsider> haha that's the book i bought Oct 07 02:57:19 <AnOutsider> skimmed through it and didnt like it much Oct 07 02:57:22 <chrisa> StormD: probably thought that the notification system was better suited to hook into that Oct 07 02:57:32 <chrisa> You could easily add a notification listing 2 emails, for example Oct 07 02:57:58 <tmzt> does Luna even use js for the home screen? Oct 07 02:58:07 <tmzt> isn't that all in compiled code? Oct 07 02:58:10 <chrisa> I think sysmgr renders it Oct 07 02:58:22 <DarthPooh> but not calendar... because you can't access something the hook hasnt created (or isn't a part of creating) Oct 07 02:58:49 <AnOutsider> "According to Xatakamovil the Palm Pre will be available in Spain on Movistar October 14th." - will this be QWERTY or QWERTZ Oct 07 02:58:52 <StormD> You know what it is, is I haven't really adapted my brain to how this OS works. Oct 07 02:58:52 <chrisa> DarthPooh: you could create an app that exists only to register notifications on email / etc though Oct 07 02:58:59 <chrisa> AnOutsider: qwertz Oct 07 02:59:06 <StormD> I'm starting to understand it, and get why the things I want aren't there. Oct 07 02:59:08 <AnOutsider> foiled again Oct 07 02:59:10 <tmzt> they use qwertz in Spain? Oct 07 02:59:15 <chrisa> Seems so Oct 07 02:59:33 <chrisa> Or am I thinking germany Oct 07 02:59:43 <AnOutsider> Although it doesnt matter at this point. I'd take sprint's EVDO over ATT's 3G anyday Oct 07 02:59:49 <AnOutsider> Germany is QWERTZ Oct 07 02:59:52 <StormD> But I'm still wanting to think in a BlackBerry universe. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 07 02:59:57 2009

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 06 02:59:58 2009 Oct 06 03:01:16 Lottery Generator, $.99 app from Ovlite for making random numbers (do people actually pay for this junk?) Oct 06 03:01:27 destinal: no. Oct 06 03:01:30 Dont call me junk :( Oct 06 03:01:42 destinal, I would pay $999 for a _real_ random number generator ;) Oct 06 03:02:20 zsoc: heh, you can get quantum noise ones for way cheaper than that, yeah? (just not in software, lol) Oct 06 03:02:36 woot, bugtraq posted http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/36592/info Oct 06 03:02:36 exactly, hehe Oct 06 03:02:57 tharris-, excellent, once again :) Oct 06 03:03:29 one day zsoc, one day a computer will be able to generate a truly random number Oct 06 03:04:08 I never found anythign wrong with pulling numbers out of a hat Oct 06 03:04:16 http://www.random.org/ Oct 06 03:04:44 oil: not truly random Oct 06 03:04:55 Abyssul, ever hear of game theory? :P Oct 06 03:05:03 http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2001-10-25/ Oct 06 03:05:04 my 2 year old pulling numbers out of a hat is random..... Oct 06 03:05:07 no Oct 06 03:05:08 http://xkcd.com/221/ Oct 06 03:05:13 Decimate: "RANDOM.ORG offers true random numbers to anyone on the Internet. The randomness comes from atmospheric noise, which for many purposes is better than the pseudo-random number algorithms typically used in computer programs" Oct 06 03:05:19 Oh god, it looks like I can't test a patched version of v4l2 without unregistering the old version.... goodbye to my camera working ever again Oct 06 03:05:33 NOT TRULY RANDOM! Oct 06 03:05:40 9 9 9 9 Oct 06 03:05:59 clee, excellent Oct 06 03:06:01 you can keep yelling if you want, but it doesn't change the fact Oct 06 03:06:09 Ugh you guys are giving me a headache with all this thinking Oct 06 03:06:18 oil: its based on SOMETHING Oct 06 03:06:23 randomness = based on nothing. Oct 06 03:06:24 something that is random Oct 06 03:06:54 can randomness be based on randomness then Oct 06 03:06:55 Decimate: random = unpredictable, not weighted one way or the other Oct 06 03:06:59 see: entropy Oct 06 03:07:10 I still like the webcam & a lava lamp tgrick Oct 06 03:07:30 Decimate: is a dice roll random? Oct 06 03:07:33 It was 7 lava lamps Oct 06 03:07:39 one wasn't sufficiently random Oct 06 03:07:40 yeah, a webcam by itself can produce good random numbers by heat noise on the ccd Oct 06 03:07:44 lava lamp deal was funny Oct 06 03:07:45 im done. Oct 06 03:07:48 but the lava lamp thing was cute Oct 06 03:07:51 http://gamesbyemail.com/News/DiceOMatic Oct 06 03:07:56 or is it not because the number it returns is based on the wind speed and the toss speed and the weight of the die? Oct 06 03:08:15 we digress Oct 06 03:08:16 :P Oct 06 03:08:22 you're done because you're wrong :) Oct 06 03:08:22 WHat is the air speed of an unladen D20 Oct 06 03:08:35 lmorchard: African or European? Oct 06 03:09:44 2 things i can't believe just happened. 1, i deregistered the binary neccesary to make the camera on my phone function, and 2, doing that actually made what i was trying to do, work. Oct 06 03:09:52 :D Oct 06 03:11:19 zsoc, whatcha working on? Oct 06 03:11:31 presane_, bricking my pre Oct 06 03:11:48 for what purpose? Oct 06 03:12:24 zsoc: ajames had the same problem Oct 06 03:13:19 http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9908/#154958 Oct 06 03:13:30 "One glaring bug that I discovered just last night is that the camera no longer works. I thought I had left in the parts of the patch that dealt with that but I must have missed something. I think the custom registry format that palm uses holds some extra info (there's a comment related to resolution, iirc) that the mainline gstreamer registries don't use." Oct 06 03:15:14 freakout, er, no, he actually bypassed the version of gstreamer preinstalled and installed 0.10.23 Oct 06 03:15:40 freakout, i just deregistered the patched camera binary and registered my own in it's place Oct 06 03:16:31 "And while Palm is providing the URL, it is not going to be reviewing the apps in any way — a clear dig at Apple’s approval process." Oct 06 03:16:35 freakout, first thing i noticed, is that part of their patch actually _fixes_ something cause by a registry allocation error. I feel I'm going to be repatching my patch, one piece at a time, untill i realize 95% of their patch (minus the 80% of it that is whitespacing changes) is actually necessary Oct 06 03:16:45 So patches packaged as ipks can get distributed by Palm? Oct 06 03:16:52 presane_, because i'm a crazy person Oct 06 03:17:12 understood Oct 06 03:17:25 zsoc: ah. any reason you're not using the same method? Oct 06 03:17:33 freakout, because his method doesn't work? Oct 06 03:17:33 samk1: the upload agreement for the app catalog precludes that. Oct 06 03:18:14 freakout, unless you mean just getting support for audio codecs, to play command line, in which case we are using the exact same method (in fact, i learned from his mistakes and he helped me out a ton, he needs credit for anything i accomplish) Oct 06 03:18:23 thx Oct 06 03:19:02 freakout, also when i said registry allocation, i meant _memory_ allocation, just to clarify Oct 06 03:21:50 for anyone who's been asleep for the last coupla hours... Oct 06 03:21:55 http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9935/palm-announces-new-no-review-app-catalog-policies/ Oct 06 03:22:04 I need someone to test a patcfh for me Oct 06 03:22:07 to maeks ure its not just me Oct 06 03:22:19 Emu ok, dBsooner? Oct 06 03:22:27 sure Oct 06 03:22:33 i'll be your guinea pig Oct 06 03:22:45 do the all day event in month view Oct 06 03:23:00 For some reason when I install that one, I lose all appts in month view Oct 06 03:23:44 k Oct 06 03:24:02 ouch, you know it's bad when you get an error that, even when removing unique file names, ends up with only 1 google hit :< Oct 06 03:27:49 I'm sad about not knowing about the palm event tonight.. Oct 06 03:27:55 could have gotten a free pre... Oct 06 03:28:43 dBsooner: same for me. No appts in month view anymore Oct 06 03:28:47 Anyone have a second to give me an idea of what exactly is taking up so much space on my pre? http://webos.pastebin.com/d5f496ade (no response in the general chat) Oct 06 03:28:54 freakout: thanks Oct 06 03:29:00 freakout: I'll have to work on that. Oct 06 03:29:50 how many users are running by default when checking with TOP ? Oct 06 03:30:26 http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2214/unknown20090510232940.png Oct 06 03:30:27 ahh! Oct 06 03:35:03 MLJ, your df -h is very similar to mine. Oct 06 03:35:16 what makes you think its irregular? Oct 06 03:36:52 rawdr: Nothing really... I was just curious was to what was actually taking up the space? E-mails? apps? (I can't install texas holdem) ... I'm not proficient in Linux I've just read enough squeeze by. Oct 06 03:37:00 hrm... the 5x4 icon layout in the patch catalog sucks. Oct 06 03:37:24 then make it more better Oct 06 03:37:33 Hah! I hoped you'd say that, because I have! Oct 06 03:37:35 I heard some people talking earlier about app catalog errors like that... maybe it's a temporary thing Oct 06 03:37:43 and now I'm trying like hell to publish it Oct 06 03:37:59 but if you look at pastebin, I'm having issues Oct 06 03:38:26 and I'm sure it's a matter of simple configuration, but I've spent 3 days trying to figure it out with no headway Oct 06 03:38:44 i have no clue Oct 06 03:38:58 I followed the instructions on Applying_Patches, but something is amiss. Oct 06 03:39:44 flare576: how'd you make it better Oct 06 03:40:06 Decimate: I've improved the spacing, width restrictions, and left margin to optimize text spacing Oct 06 03:40:22 so it doesn't run into the next icon for things that don't have spaces in long names Oct 06 03:40:43 the current version unnecessarily shrunk the text size, making it harder than necessary to read. Oct 06 03:42:09 but some random icons wont drag sometimes Oct 06 03:42:23 thats why i scratched 5x4 right after making it and moved to 4x4 Oct 06 03:42:30 I've never had that happen on mine... so... I guess I fixed that too? Oct 06 03:42:39 it will happen :P Oct 06 03:42:59 probably, it's handling more icons simultaneously than it's expecting Oct 06 03:43:06 lift your finger and try again :O) Oct 06 03:43:53 yeah, that works Oct 06 03:43:56 but i hated it. Oct 06 03:45:06 my ssh isn't configured right... it's not trying the right auth method.... Oct 06 03:45:20 I dont know how to google that lol.... "SSH configuration" isn't likely to be helpful Oct 06 03:47:56 flare576: which auth method is it not trying? Oct 06 03:48:24 destinal: the right one? :) if you can tell me a command or file location to check for configuration, I'll get it Oct 06 03:48:36 that's my #1 problem: I have no idea where to look to figure out how stuff is configured Oct 06 03:48:50 flare576: back up a sec. what are you trying to do, first? Oct 06 03:49:06 comit a patch to gitorious (http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches) Oct 06 03:49:19 I guess the command is "push" Oct 06 03:50:15 I'm using the Dropbear trick Oct 06 03:50:25 (described in the linked document) Oct 06 03:50:55 Anyone got VK to work with 1.2.1? Oct 06 03:54:19 rebooting, maybe one of the changes just wasn't picked up Oct 06 03:54:33 wow, go palm Oct 06 03:55:26 nope, still getting the same error Oct 06 03:55:35 Read the new article DraX? Oct 06 03:55:45 yeah Oct 06 03:55:54 wish you ere there to get a free Pre and a month of free sprint seervice? Oct 06 03:55:55 Interesting to say the least Oct 06 03:56:05 I dont see the closed source app price staying that high Oct 06 03:57:57 destinal: you got my hopes up man lol Oct 06 03:58:48 Is anyone working to fix the "All-Day Events in Month View" patch to work in 1.2.1? Currently, it does not appear to work at all, at least not for me, and several others on the forum. Oct 06 03:59:19 flare576: you may need to check you're using the correct commit URL and that you have commit rights to wherever you're trying to push to Oct 06 03:59:46 hmmm, that could be, but wouldn't that troubleshooting /opt/bin/ssh at least make a connection? Oct 06 04:00:01 flare576: I'm not familiar with the stuff described in the article (kind of multitasking, sorry) Oct 06 04:00:24 destinal: noooo problem man, of the stuff going on in this room, making something slightly prettier is the lowest priority Oct 06 04:00:34 I'm just frustrated as hell Oct 06 04:04:13 off topic... woot finally got my invite to google voice :) Oct 06 04:05:47 grats lol Oct 06 04:05:56 i would try to get one Oct 06 04:06:00 but i've only got one number... Oct 06 04:06:44 Yeh... that doesn't make it any more simple ... but you would get a few features you don't have with your one number... sms/emailed voice mails.. block callers etc.. Oct 06 04:07:12 the auto-transcribed voicemails are HILARIOUS Oct 06 04:08:20 can't comment I haven't got that far yet Oct 06 04:08:55 flare576: Free butter subscribe choice sales or nefarious? Oct 06 04:09:14 172 thanks and counting :) Oct 06 04:09:30 freakout: call my back! Oct 06 04:09:38 lol Oct 06 04:09:55 Air Hockey is back on the App Catalog Oct 06 04:10:28 oil PING Oct 06 04:12:00 eh?^ Oct 06 04:12:12 ? Oct 06 04:12:20 Can screenshots be landscape? Oct 06 04:12:24 So Oct 06 04:12:31 call Wave has really nice voicemail transcription Oct 06 04:12:34 in preware? Oct 06 04:12:36 yes Oct 06 04:12:37 si Oct 06 04:12:38 ok Oct 06 04:12:40 ty Oct 06 04:12:45 they look rather sexy, too Oct 06 04:12:51 check out xbox live friends app Oct 06 04:13:07 destinal: success! (I think). I had to use /opt/bin/openssh-ssh -v git@gitorious.org Oct 06 04:14:08 flare576: aha, cool Oct 06 04:14:39 ... but my passphrase doesn't work. if it's not one thing it's another lol Oct 06 04:16:01 did checkers pro getr pulled from the app catalog? Oct 06 04:16:19 Joesmith: all the paid apps were pulled AFAIK Oct 06 04:16:27 WHAT! Oct 06 04:16:29 why Oct 06 04:16:36 Joesmith: turns out you could download them without paying Oct 06 04:16:36 :( Oct 06 04:16:53 ! Oct 06 04:17:02 so they pulled them long enough to figure out the issue and fix it I suppose Oct 06 04:17:25 I cant believe I didnt download one Oct 06 04:18:05 Joesmith: well, it wasn't quite that easy Oct 06 04:18:21 there was a vulnerability that could be exploited to download them for free, put it that way Oct 06 04:18:35 thats not good Oct 06 04:20:35 flare576: I'm headed to bed, but if you have problems with committing stuff to git you might ask rwhitby Oct 06 04:20:47 thank you very much destinal, I appreciate it Oct 06 04:20:55 flare576: good luck Oct 06 04:20:56 gn all Oct 06 04:21:50 hi folks. what was the app store security bug? Precentral is being all coy... Oct 06 04:22:28 please read the end of /topic Oct 06 04:22:31 I don't think we are allowed to either Oct 06 04:22:32 There was a bug that comprimised app security. Please see topic for more info Oct 06 04:23:24 I thought they pulled the apps. Is the bug still live? Oct 06 04:23:30 Lol Palm's glory didn't last long did it? :p Oct 06 04:23:50 but my apps shone for a moment... Oct 06 04:23:53 Confused, you will get warned if you keep talking o.O Oct 06 04:24:12 was anyone else a little dissapointed in the apps prices? Oct 06 04:24:18 Me Oct 06 04:24:22 Joesmith: only on a few Oct 06 04:24:26 overall I was pleased. Oct 06 04:24:33 http://xkcd.com/644/ Oct 06 04:24:45 I dont plan on buying buy a few app over the lifetime of my Pre, but looking at them .... Oct 06 04:24:47 Do GNU Patch and Diffstat need to be uninstalled between webos updates? Oct 06 04:25:11 I think 1-3 dollars is fair for a decent app Oct 06 04:25:16 Yep Oct 06 04:25:18 7 dollars is steep Oct 06 04:25:23 Palm have just put out their official press release on the new app catalog policies Oct 06 04:25:25 I was disappointed. Good apps were free, crappy apps were overpriced Oct 06 04:25:26 http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9935/palm-announces-new-no-review-app-catalog-policies/ Oct 06 04:25:38 but I do like the announcment of the no review stuff Oct 06 04:25:41 palm is doing it right imo Oct 06 04:25:51 They are heading in the right direction Oct 06 04:26:03 abyssul: am I missing something? Surely there can't be any risk now??? Oct 06 04:26:14 Now if only they could give us some more insight in the developing process such as future updates and crap.. Oct 06 04:26:22 Anyone? Do GNU Patch and Diffstat need to be uninstalled between webos updates? Oct 06 04:26:33 I'm just keeping you safe from the Wrath of Rwhitby :p Oct 06 04:26:35 joesmith. is $4.95 too much for VLC remote or iTunes Remote? Oct 06 04:26:36 I seriously think that some of the apps need to be taken down several dollars Oct 06 04:26:51 Why arn't the two remote apps a single app? Oct 06 04:26:54 ConfusedVorlon_: it's not a matter of risk, if you just want to speculate on the cause/solution/reprecussions, I'm not sure they want it here Oct 06 04:26:59 when there are free ones yes Oct 06 04:27:04 Abyssul: yeah, that was odd lol Oct 06 04:27:20 and I dont want to pay 5.00 for something I cant try Oct 06 04:27:27 it may suck? Oct 06 04:27:28 the functionality is pretty different. Oct 06 04:27:29 rwhitby: I don't suppose you're there? Oct 06 04:27:45 Nrbelex: no, those can stay across updates Oct 06 04:27:55 though I agree the lack of trial is an interesting issue Oct 06 04:27:57 http://palm.cdnetworks.net/devrel/video.html Oct 06 04:27:57 Speak of the devil :p Oct 06 04:28:07 rwhitby, thanks Oct 06 04:28:17 all I can do is take the word of the reviewers Oct 06 04:28:26 and they were low Oct 06 04:28:40 it would be best if users could test the full version of any app for a few days and then it would be deleted automatically unless paid for Oct 06 04:28:41 wow, tyhe rpecentral article about it pretty much rewords the techcrunch article Oct 06 04:28:47 right down to the "oprah" comparison Oct 06 04:28:59 I cant afford to pay 5.00 again and again, without trial Oct 06 04:29:07 that would add up quick Oct 06 04:29:32 rwhitby: if you've got a moment... I need a bit of help configuring my phone to submit patches... "/opt/bin/ssh -v git@gitorious.org" does not work, but "/opt/bin/openssh-ssh -v git@gitorious.org" does, "git push origin master" does not. Something is amiss and I don't know where to start diggign. Oct 06 04:29:37 I think they should follow a trial model like the classic app, or a full and lite version Oct 06 04:29:38 http://pdnblog.palm.com/ Oct 06 04:29:58 JoeSmith: that's down to the developer Oct 06 04:30:05 perhaps an in-app upgrade model where they pay for a "ley" Oct 06 04:30:48 I know, and I think they have every right to charge whatever they want Oct 06 04:30:59 but that doesnt mean I like i Oct 06 04:31:03 it* Oct 06 04:31:19 # Priority placement in the app catalog. A limited number of priority placements will be available in the catalog if you want to obtain greater visibility for your application. These placements will be openly available for bid in our auction system at prices that are determined by the community, based on demand. Oct 06 04:31:21 genius Oct 06 04:31:35 and no, I mean the developers should make lite versions to entice people Oct 06 04:31:50 shouldnt be down to palm to implement a"trial" structure (not that you were insinuating that) Oct 06 04:32:16 flare576: use GIT_SSH to point to openssh-ssh Oct 06 04:32:46 I think that palm has the right to set the rules, and devs can follow them, or release them elsewhere Oct 06 04:32:50 or not at all Oct 06 04:33:14 I wish some apps were cheaper but I dont want palm to force devs to lower prices Oct 06 04:33:53 I think the prices will set themselves over time Oct 06 04:34:01 the market will adjust itself Oct 06 04:34:05 agreed Oct 06 04:34:22 sweet, palm is waving the annual $99 for open source apps, cool Oct 06 04:34:32 HEY! In that palm video, they have onscreen keyboard on the sketch board Oct 06 04:34:50 rwhitby: YAYAYAYAYAYA! I don't have write access to the repository, but it CONNECTED! Oct 06 04:34:56 if an app that costs 7.50 only has two stars, not many people will buy it Oct 06 04:35:21 flare576: what's your gitorious username? Oct 06 04:35:24 flare576 Oct 06 04:35:31 I make things easy Oct 06 04:35:34 Palm is hilariously brilliant with the review-free app idea Oct 06 04:35:42 Basically just made a good porn phone Oct 06 04:35:43 what video outsider? Oct 06 04:35:51 flare576: try now Oct 06 04:36:00 review-free? Oct 06 04:36:11 video? Oct 06 04:36:15 does the iphone require $50 per app? Oct 06 04:36:18 rwhitby: it went through :) Oct 06 04:36:24 iphone is 100$ for the dev acct Oct 06 04:36:38 Im pissed i jumped through hoops with Obj-C and adobe is coming out with a flash to iphone compiler :( Oct 06 04:36:44 Palm is apparently going to give people a method for installing apps without it going on the app store Oct 06 04:36:44 * oil opensources his apps so he isn't charged no stinkin $99 + $50 per app Oct 06 04:36:53 AnOutsider: right, but plam is chargin $99 anually and $50 per app submitted Oct 06 04:36:55 Now that it's up, do I need to do something to get it into preware and stuff? The guide sorta ends there lol Oct 06 04:37:00 psykoz: porn specifically forbidden and will be pulled. Oct 06 04:37:05 ahh, didnt realize that Oct 06 04:37:07 i just want to know if apple is doing the same Oct 06 04:37:14 rick_home, even for the review-free apps? Oct 06 04:37:17 gkatsev: but only for PAID APPS Oct 06 04:37:21 AnOutsider: yeah, i didnt know that as well untill now Oct 06 04:37:23 psykoz: yes. Oct 06 04:37:24 rick_home: yep. Oct 06 04:37:40 and look, at 70% after taxes, Oct 06 04:37:43 Oh, thing I was reading said Palm won't be doing anything other than basic checks of the code Oct 06 04:37:56 rick_home: i just wanted to know if anyone knew if iphone is also charing $99 annually + $50 per app, or just $99 annually Oct 06 04:38:03 how many do you have to sell to cover $149 for even a single paid app? I mean come on guys, this isn't a show stopper, Oct 06 04:38:07 * oil wonders when they will get to plugins and services Oct 06 04:38:08 this is a proof that you're serious Oct 06 04:38:11 * geist yawns Oct 06 04:38:13 i dont beleive there is a per-app price for the iphone Oct 06 04:38:24 geist this is not a night for yawning. Oct 06 04:38:53 * geist is a rebel and yawns Oct 06 04:38:59 the biggest problems now for the pre is the limit of /var for those average joes (pun intended) Oct 06 04:39:14 geist -- was this event tonight advertised at all, or was it invitation only? Oct 06 04:39:24 ... Oct 06 04:39:26 whut? Oct 06 04:39:27 right Oct 06 04:39:33 gkatsev: $100/yr on the iphone. unlimited apps. Oct 06 04:39:34 nevermind..... Oct 06 04:39:50 typical palm fashion "..." LOL Oct 06 04:39:51 it's on the consumer side, geist, forget I asked. Oct 06 04:40:06 just kidding :P Oct 06 04:40:37 geist, tell your coworkers to stop wasting 90% of a patch on moving whitespace and tabbing Oct 06 04:40:53 well, it should compress well... Oct 06 04:41:07 ConfusedVorlon_: thanks, i wonder why palm decided to set the prices as such Oct 06 04:41:07 i dont work with the legions of plaintext coders Oct 06 04:41:15 i pee on them mostly Oct 06 04:41:17 flare576: talk to egaudet or dBsooner to get the preware patch updated Oct 06 04:41:30 flare576: and update the wiki as you go through the process :-) Oct 06 04:41:34 I dont see the current implimentation of Palm's developing fee staying for long Oct 06 04:41:35 geist: you program only with butterflies? Oct 06 04:41:43 rwhitby: I've got the biggest dumbest smile on my face :) Oct 06 04:42:00 i move the bits around directly Oct 06 04:42:07 I'm not sure how much of what I had to do is standard, but I'll do what I can Oct 06 04:42:17 gkatsev: my guess is that it just sets a basic 'are you serious about this' bar Oct 06 04:42:44 rwhitby, you're going to be mad at me. i have about 5 pages of info in my head that belongs on the wiki Oct 06 04:42:48 http://pdnblog.palm.com/2009/10/what-you-need-to-know/ Oct 06 04:42:58 geist thinks bytes is a little high level for him. It's all 1's and 0's..... Oct 06 04:42:58 i mainly just use M-x butterfly Oct 06 04:43:15 rick_home: for geist it's all 0V and 1.8V and 3.3V Oct 06 04:43:16 gkatsev: discourages everyone from posting another tiny tweak to a flashlight app and cluttering the store with crap Oct 06 04:43:46 dBsooner: are you still around? Oct 06 04:43:51 yeah Oct 06 04:43:58 ConfusedVorlon_: yeah, i guess it discourages hundreds of 99 cent crap apps that are all the same Oct 06 04:44:00 good point rwhitby Oct 06 04:44:16 I just put up a patch for 5x4 icons with improved spacing; what do you need from me to get it on PreWare Oct 06 04:44:25 yeah, well with MLC flashit's not even that Oct 06 04:44:34 multiple bits stored within a single cell Oct 06 04:44:34 That's all you changed? Oct 06 04:44:41 Just spacing? Oct 06 04:44:44 flare576: you writing that patch? its awesome Oct 06 04:44:45 4 or 8 levels of voltage Oct 06 04:45:00 Security bug? anyone willing to explain in a /msg? Oct 06 04:45:02 dBsooner: have you used the current one? the names of apps rolls into each other Oct 06 04:45:06 and off the edge Oct 06 04:45:13 yeah, I know.l; Oct 06 04:45:19 but yes, that's all I changed is spacing Oct 06 04:45:20 So you fixed spacing and added word wrap? Oct 06 04:45:26 yup Oct 06 04:45:27 or just spacing? Oct 06 04:45:39 word wrap came with spacing, but yes, it wraps now :) Oct 06 04:45:40 The reason I ask is for the descirption. ;) Oct 06 04:45:51 Did you push it to gitorious? Oct 06 04:46:16 I did :) under a different name, though, since I really didn't knwo what the hell was breaking until rwhitby helped Oct 06 04:46:18 have you created the .patch file? Oct 06 04:46:24 lol Oct 06 04:46:25 ok Oct 06 04:46:32 Good.. Don't overwrite anything Oct 06 04:46:40 I'll create it as a Ver 2 Oct 06 04:46:56 Would you mind taking a screenshot? Oct 06 04:47:37 dBsooner: doing it right now Oct 06 04:47:53 thank you Oct 06 04:47:58 you can upload it to the wiki Oct 06 04:48:11 looks like you can even sell apps without review. That's interesting. Oct 06 04:48:17 Put preware in teh shot Oct 06 04:48:21 like right in the center. ;) Oct 06 04:48:47 dieter is back Oct 06 04:48:56 oh great... Oct 06 04:48:58 xD Oct 06 04:49:57 xD Oct 06 04:52:23 I don't suppose anyone in here happens to use crossdev _and_ be familiar with backporting? :P Oct 06 04:53:46 flare576: let me know when you get that screenshot uploaded to wiki Oct 06 04:54:17 and for future reference.. use - instead of _.. I know there are some with _ and you jsut followed what the othe rone did.. but we are trying to keep them all with - Oct 06 04:54:30 got it! Oct 06 04:54:43 give me link to .png once you get it uploaded Oct 06 04:56:47 dBsooner: I'm not used to editing the wiki; so here's the link to the image while I'm figuring out where to put it: http://flare576.com/temp/5x5-icons.png Oct 06 04:56:54 lol Oct 06 04:56:54 ok Oct 06 04:57:03 on the left of the wiki Oct 06 04:57:17 in the "toolbox" Oct 06 04:57:21 is Upload a file Oct 06 04:57:51 this 5x4 or 5x5? Oct 06 04:58:14 5x4 Oct 06 04:58:21 looks good.. I might use this one. :D Oct 06 04:58:50 you see where to upload it to flare576? Oct 06 04:59:06 Paid apps are back in the catalog. Can anyone confirm the bug has been squashed? Oct 06 04:59:30 dBsooner: yup, http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Image:5x4-icons.png Oct 06 04:59:35 Some of my buddies have informed me its been squashed Oct 06 05:00:25 dBsooner: :) I'm glad I was finally able to get this out the door... though I notice that in doing so I can't do a standard "git pull" anymore, so there's a bit more work to do tonight. Oct 06 05:00:26 presane_, who are you again? Oct 06 05:00:34 presane_: cheers Oct 06 05:01:22 that friendsflow icon is so freaking horrid Oct 06 05:01:26 i dont even want to look at it Oct 06 05:01:30 yes Oct 06 05:01:32 lol Oct 06 05:01:35 oil: agree Oct 06 05:01:37 I tried to pack as many webos-internals apps in that screen as I could ;) Oct 06 05:01:42 same with go to tool Oct 06 05:01:52 That checkers icon is sex Oct 06 05:01:58 whore Oct 06 05:02:05 no, friendsflow is the WORST icon ive seen yet Oct 06 05:02:08 thats saying a lot Oct 06 05:02:18 I was going to say blocked but oh well Oct 06 05:02:19 Old PreCheckers was worse Oct 06 05:02:26 * freakout had plans for an app with a goatse icon Oct 06 05:02:32 wanna know what icon is awesome? Oct 06 05:02:33 blocked Oct 06 05:02:35 thats smexy Oct 06 05:02:38 and i suck at art Oct 06 05:02:39 isn't*** Oct 06 05:02:39 freakout: LOL Oct 06 05:03:13 * rick_home going to sleep now Oct 06 05:03:16 kesne: srsly Oct 06 05:03:23 night rick_home Oct 06 05:03:24 bye, rick_home! Oct 06 05:03:38 such an awesome farewel Oct 06 05:03:43 see ya on the flipside rick! Oct 06 05:03:44 xD Oct 06 05:03:59 * freakout organises 21gun salute for rick_home Oct 06 05:04:00 Friends Flow was one of my main test subjects 'cause of the long freakin' name :) Oct 06 05:04:33 you can just edit the appinfo json and make a long app name :P Oct 06 05:05:00